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Subscribe to RSSNBC's Domenico Montanaro reports that although some Republicans have changed their tone on a new-no-taxes pledge, they aren't putting tax rate increases on the table.
Some Republicans appear to be softening what was once a hard stance on their no-taxes pledge as the end-of-the-year deadline on the so-called “fiscal cliff” approaches.
But it’s not clear how far they would go – if they would raise rates on the wealthiest, as President Obama wants, or if they are simply willing to go along with eliminating some loopholes and deductions to raise revenue. And those who have been outspoken on the topic thus far are not seen as the key players in the ongoing negotiations.
Alex Wong / Getty Images
Select Committee on Intelligence ranking member Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) gets on the Senate subway as he leaves after a hearing on the Benghazi attack November 16, 2012 on Capitol Hill in Washington, DC.
“I care more about my country than I do about a 20-year-old pledge,” Sen. Saxby Chambliss of Georgia told a local TV station from his home state. “If we do it his way then we’ll continue in debt, and I just have a disagreement with him about that.”
Chambliss is one of several congressional Republicans who have indicated they might break with an anti-tax pledge pushed by activist Grover Norquist.
NBC's Chuck Todd tells Savannah Guthrie that House Republicans are stalling a compromise in the "fiscal cliff" debate, unlike the Senate, where members are more keen to strike a compromise.
On the Sunday shows and Monday morning TV, Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) and Bob Corker (R-TN), as well as Reps. Eric Cantor (R-VA) -- the House minority leader -- and Peter King (R-NY), joined Chambliss in downplaying the “Taxpayer Protection Pledge.” Norquist’s 58-word pledge has been a mainstay in Republican politics since 1986. In 2011, every GOP presidential hopeful, including Mitt Romney (and excluding Jon Huntsman) signed it.
NBC's Domenico Montanaro reports on the increased number of pledges that Republican presidential candidates are being asked to sign in this campaign. One pledge stands apart, a no-new-taxes pledge, whose creator has influenced day-to-day legislation and is vowing to fight any effort to get find revenue in the new congressional supercommittee charged with closing the national debt.
“I agree with Grover — we shouldn’t raise rates,” Graham said on ABC, “but I think Grover is wrong when it comes to we can’t cap deductions and buy down debt.” Graham added, “I will violate the pledge, long story short, for the good of the country, only if Democrats will do entitlement reform.”
Corker told CBS on Monday: “I’m not obligated on the pledge. I made Tennesseans aware, I was just elected, the only thing I’m honoring is the oath I take when I serve, when I’m sworn in this January.”
King, of New York, said on Meet the Press Sunday: “I agree entirely with Saxby Chambliss -- a pledge you signed 20 years ago, 18 years ago, is for that Congress... I think everything should be on the table.”
Norquist, in fact, says the fact that no House Republican has voted for a tax increase in 22 years is directly a product of his pledge. Norquist does not just mandate that lawmakers not vote for tax increases, but also that any bill they sign onto has to be “revenue neutral.”
In other words, cutting deductions and loopholes, for example, would also be out if not offset by further tax cuts. But Republicans and Democrats face an end-of-the-year deadline to try and figure out a way to avert the steep military and domestic spending cuts and taxes going up for everyone when the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of the year.
USA Today's Susan Page, American Bridge 21st Century President Rodell Mollineau, and YG Action Fund Senior Adviser Brad Dayspring join Chuck Todd to talk about the impending fiscal cliff.
That some senators appear ready to talk revenue is not as significant as what House members say. It is widely believed that a deal would be struck between the White House and the House GOP, not with the Senate.
House Speaker John Boehner has said that “revenue” is on the table, but the president wants to raise rates for the wealthiest. Obama campaigned on the idea, but it’s not at all clear whether the House Republican rank-and-file would sign on to any rate increase.
Cantor, who wields some influence with the GOP conference’s more conservative members, is seen as more of a keystone, and he, too, seemed willing to go along with at least some revenue increases.
“There has been a lot said about this pledge,” Cantor said on MSNBC’s Morning Joe Monday. “When I go to the constituents, it’s not about that pledge. It’s about trying to solve problems. House Speaker John Boehner went to the White House and said, ‘Hey, Republicans in the House are willing to put revenues on the table.’ That’s a big move.”
House Majority Leader Rep. Eric Cantor, R-Va., sits down with Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, John Heilemann, and Mike Barnicle to talk about Israel, Egypt, the Grover Norquist tax pledge, the future of fiscal cliff negotiations, and why not everything is on the table in tax talks.
“We were elected to fix problems,” Cantor said, before adding, “Even if you raise all those taxes, it doesn’t fix your problem.”
In a follow-up interview, Cantor’s office stressed that he remains against raising tax rates.
“Republicans aren't against tax rate hikes because of any one man or pledge,” spokeswoman Megan Whittemore said. “We are against hiking rates, because they're bad for the economy and hurt jobs. We've put ideas on the table that bring more money in while keeping tax rates where they are to produce job growth. It's now time for President Obama to put his ideas on the table for spending cuts and entitlement reform if he truly embraces a balanced approach.”
For his part, Norquist isn’t backing down. In a statement to NBC News, he took shots at the GOP senators and expressed confidence that no one would violate the pledge.
"Chambliss has been pushing this line since he joined the Gang of Six,” Norquist said. “Lindsey Graham has for two years said he would raise taxes if he got a 10:1 ratio of spending cuts through entitlement reform that could not be undone. There is no news in these two 'changing.'”
And he added, “They have not voted for a tax hike. They have had impure thoughts on present. Their impure thoughts did not change a single GOP vote in the 2011 fight over the debt ceiling which had a real deadline looming. One might have argued that the pledge died in 1990 when a sitting president and many in House leadership broke the pledge. However, the opposite happened, the pledge became more powerful when breaking it was seen to have very real consequence in 1992. After the 1994 election a majority of the House and Senate had signed the pledge."
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House Speaker Republican John Boehner-- ?? -- This Is Totally Incorrect!! The Correct Speaker Of The House Is Grover Norquist -- Whom The Republicans Have Was Elected To Follow -- Gee What Is Wrong With This Picture? I Thought That The Members Of The House Are Elected By The American Voters -- How Come This Grover Guy Gets To Be The Speaker Of The House -- He Isn't Even An Elected Member Of The House -- Sorry My Fellow Americans But These House Republicans Just Keep Pulling This Off On Us Folks -- We Don't Count And Our Votes Are Basically Worthless. Sorry John Boehner But Your Just The House Speaker In Name Only!
Obama vs Norquist Was The Real Election!
So Keep Voting Republican And Keep Wasting Your Votes -- How's This Sound:
I Pledge Allegiance To The Flag Of The USA -- OOPs -- I Pledge Allegiance To Grover -- All Better Now My Republican House Members --See No USA In There -- No Accountablity Or Responsibility To The American Voters!
The Cliff Should Be Called The Republican Cliff For All Intensive Purposes -- They Created It -- They Own It!
2014 & 2016 Are Now One Day Closer Now -- I'll Be Crossing Off The Days Till Their Departures!
The Most Serious Problem This Country Has Is The Republican Party In Congress --The Personal Agenda Party!
No Real Americans There!
Less taxes means more revenue... Then think of all the revenue zero taxes would bring in. What republicans call Math is a joke! It's like this ignorant belief that if we continue to give Rush Limbaugh low tax rates he will create jobs he can't afford to create now.
OICY:
By that logic taxing us ALL at 100% will solve ALL our problems. Right?
No... Use Calculus to determine what point the Revenue line is Maximized. Not your voodoo moron Rush Limbaugh ignorance!
OICY
Well look at the facts. from 2003 to 2007 we had INCREASING REVENUES and INCREASING EMPLOYMENT. Then the Housing Bubble hit. We have had INCREASING REVENUES since 2009! The Bush Tax Cuts are still here!!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals
Select Table 1.1,you will need Excel to read the spreadsheet.
You idiot republicans caused the housing bubble when you removed all oversight from the bankers!
OICY:
Or we could S-T-O-P S-P-E-N-D-I-N-G so much.
Get rid of a few thousand useless, paper pushing beauracrats at ALL levels of government. Close tax loopholes, and get rid of unproductive government agencies so that our government COSTS LESS.
Those loopholes you want to close are Child Tax Credits. Education Credits, Housing Credits. The super rich have been the only one's to benefit from Trickle Down long enough. Either they start doing what Ronald Reagan promised us they would do... Or we tax it out of them!
O I C Y
"You idiot republicans caused the housing bubble when you removed all oversight from the bankers!"
OICY, Clinton did that wingnut.
OICY
When were those regulations removed? What year? What Law? What Congress?
A Wingnut by definition is a republican. The democrat version of a wingnut is a Moonbat! Moron!
Bush ended the oversight on Wall St. Not even one banker was sent to prison for what they caused in 2008 because no laws were violated. Thank's Bush!
Liberals sure have short memories. It was Barney Frank and Chris Dodd that wouldn't let George Bush look into Fannie and Freddie and the stupid @!$%# they were doing, promoting loans for people who wouldn't pay them back.
OICY:
Don't tell me what loopholes I want to close.
You people may be running the country, but don't presume to know what I want to do untill I tell you.
I will tell you exactly what you want. You will believe anything Rush Limbaugh tells you to believe! PERIOD! End of argument!
OICY Your name calling is really cute. When ignorance demands, resort to name calling. I'm guessing you were the bully of the school yard. Now you can barely stand when you p ee.
OICY:
Typical idiot Lib.
Doesn't even know me, but is going to run around telling the world what I want, Who I listen to on the radio, and what I believe.
And they'll tell you they aren't working toward establishing a dictatorship.
Can you see EARTH from where you are?
I was NEVER a bully. But I never backed down to one of you idiots either!
BTW... Wasn't it your latest god Mitt Romney that needed 20 of his friends to hold down the class wimp before he could muster the courage to beat him up and cut off his hair?
Great idea Frobose. That idea seems to always get lost with the liberals. The stop spending money part will not penetrate the brain.
The blame and anger in this country is so mis-directed. It's all the Republicans fault, it's all the rich people's fault. Both parties have shared about equal time in office and they are both responsible for the mess we are in. If the wealthy were out here giving all the lower income people free @!$%# they would turn on Obama like a pack of wolves.
The anger in this country should be aimed squarley at government period. Both parties. The rich do the lobbying and the politicians take the money and screw the taxpayers. In our world it's called bribery. Politicians hold the key. If they stayed true to the people that elected them we would not be where we are today. You are not going to convince me that the Democrats had nothing to do with this mess. If you truly believe that you are a complete fool. Just remember Clinton pushing for everyone to own a home. They are two heads of the same beast.
Fro, nobody cares what you want, you lost.
I can tell what you stand for every time I post in favor of the working class and you attack me for it!
No Mizz, you rush limpballs types are unwilling to participate in this country in a way that is good for all people. You are the ones that are wrong. We will show you from no on at election time. Maybe its time for you to find your own fascist country to live in. The next place you will see is hell. It is the republicans fault, it is the fault of the rich. When this country got taken over by the republicans and the rich is when the down fall began. Nobody is going to convice you because you are a brain washed idiot that believes its ok to take from the poor so the rich can have even more. You suck.
OICY:
Your crystal ball is broke. Have it repaired.
John:
Yeah, but that doesn't mean you can shut me up. Unfortunately (for you) we have that whole Constitutionally guaranteed "Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Assembly" thing going on here in America. But all is not lost. You can always go live someplace where they don't practice those outmoded customs. Cuba, and North Korea spring immediately to mind. Those people know how to deal with individuals who say things they don't like. You'll be right at home there, and if there is anything we can do to speed up your leaving just let us know. We wouldn't want you to be unhappy one minute longer than necessary.
MIZZ:
Let's see now. OICY Doesn't even know us, but is going to run around telling the world what we want, Who we listen to on the radio, and what we believe. And John wants to shut us up, and knows whats "good for all the people".
And they'll tell you they aren't working toward establishing a dictatorship.
It's about time Republicans rise up against the demagogue extremist Grover ( my way or the highway) Norquist. Grover actually believes he rules the Tea Party and beware to anyone challenging his mythical powers. Slowly but surely Republicans will denounce the fact that in order to get elected, a candidate needs Grover's support. Actually the Republicans should package up Rush, Grover, and Karl and send them to China C.O.D. I'm sure their extreme right wing opinions will serve them well, there. After the recent election, the light has to go on for the Republicans sooner not later.
When I read these posts I am always surprised that the republicans/conservatives always assume that the democrats/liberals are all on the dole. Myself and hundreds of people I know are dems that work hard, provide for ourselves and others, take nothing from no one and never have (never have had to, thank God), pay lots of taxes and love our country. Why do you all assume that someone who disagrees with your position regarding the rich are "takers"?
That can't be true... No democrat ever had a job... EVER! Rush Limbaugh and FOX News said so!
OICY, You won already! Get over it! Go have some snacks and more beer!
You bet we won! And it was because America figured out what total idiots you republicans really are!
Funny, I get called a welfare leech and have worked non-stop since the age of 16... for over 40 years... nice talk, at all times by the teatards.
Julia, remember these people hate unions too. Union people are workers, it comes from being dropped on their heads when they were babies I think. They are too stupid to understand that we Dem's are the workers and if you work and are a republican you are not only a fool but brain dead fool.
Republicans can't accept the fact that people who support the working class could actually have jobs. That isn't what Rush Limbaugh told them to believe!
O I C Y
"You bet we won! And it was because America figured out what total idiots you republicans really are!"
No you won because of ignorance and stupidity. Therefore that makes you both. Actually we all lost. Just wait for it, you'll understand.
Right... The republicans look at the American voter as being too stupid to vote right. That's why all the voter suppression efforts. If they can prevent the wrong Americans from voting... They can win again.
I waited the whole 8 years of Clinton, it didn't happen, instead it happened because of Bush, I also noticed that the reight wing of the American Fascist party blocked every jobs bill that Obama suggested. I also noticed things got better because of the things that Obama did. You are obviously to stupid to smoke.
MIZZ:
Let's see now. OICY Doesn't even know us, but is going to run around telling the world what we want, Who we listen to on the radio, and what we believe. And John knows whats "good for all the people".
And they'll tell you they aren't working toward establishing a dictatorship.
John, do you really think the country would be a whole lot better off if we borrowed ANOTHER three trillion dollars from your grandkids to pay for some stupid make work government job? Government CAN not create self sustaining jobs. Government jobs are by definition parasitic to the private economy.
Also, things have improved verrrrrry marginally in this country in the last four years, but it's despite Obama, not because of him.
Finally, yes, he did win. However, folks, this ain't a basketball game. It's now time to DO something with your win, not spend the next four years dancing on the court celebrating.
I held a variety of jobs during my working days, I worked with my hands, I had good paying jobs and some that wasn't so much pay as it was rewarding, is why I took them in the first place. When I made more money I paid more taxes, but I never thought it was punitive. Since I was physically unable to go to war, I worked and helped pay for it. Even though I am anti war. When hard times came on the nation like when Reagan was president I didn't mind part of my taxes going to help these people out. Today the republicans in this country suck big road apples in my opinion. It is the only thing I feel that they are good for. You want to live here and enjoy the fruits of freedom but you don't want to pull your weight nor do you want to contribute to the well being of our freedom. That makes me unhappy as hell. How any of you bat rastards can look in a mirror long enough to shave amazes me.
Of course it's all the Republicans fault! Obama can't be touched. He is the savior! LOL
You ever look in a mirror stupid?
The teatard behavior speaks for itself... all the condescending comments in the world won't change that... alphabet boy.
As does the Maddow-Lib insanity. John, You called me stupid. Look how stupid that looks. Magooooo...
They're psychopaths. All they do is look in the mirror at the image they have created.
You are stupid, stupid enough to listen to Rush Limbaugh and watch Fox, stupid enough to vote for George W. Bush, not just once but twice. That is the dumbest thing you could have done. You are stupid if you think you are right.
Let the teatards take it over the cliff... the house will belong to the dems in 2014. John Bonehead should be ashamed of himself!
No more coddling the rich... as they off shore jobs and hide money in off shore accounts...
Now that Tax increases are on the table. What are the cuts?? What will be cut other than Defense?
Let start with subsidize for big oil!
That's about 4 billion. That is a Tax Loophole. What else?
How about a tax on the air that a gas bag such as yourself uses up everyday!
Nice intelligent response. Is that all you got?
Well Slodon, Obama has identified 4 trillion in cuts that can be made over the next ten years without taking us into another depression. You do realize if the government cuts all spending all at once it will destroy the world economy, with ours being torched the worse don't you?
“The President’s Plan for Economic Growth and Deficit Reduction”
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2012/assets/jointcommitteereport.pdf
What are those 4 trillion in cuts? What departments are cut? How much are they cut?
How will cutting the spending back to say 2008,2009 or 2010 levels be catastrophic?
Re-Elect
I see a lot of closing loopholes in the document. Nothing wrong with that at all. Why wont Obama do that now?? All he wants is a Tax Rate increase not closing loopholes.
The President doesn't have the power of the purse.
As soon as Boehner passes it, Reid's Senate can pass it and the President will sign it.
Like I keep saying.....the uber rich job creators ARE creating jobs, millions of them.....in other countries.
The biggest insult is that they think we are stupid and don't realize that.
That's one of the reasons why they lost the election.
Creating jobs in India, China and Mexico do not count as job creation and do nothing for the US economy.
Go off shore some jobs... so you can bitch about the job numbers!
uhm, think you need to re-read my comment leftward, or I'm misunderstanding yours.
Julia Obana is too! The billions of stimulus cash he gave to green companies was spent by them on produsts mostly bought and assembled overseas not here. He is the Outsourcer in Chief.
His BFF Jeff Immelt of GE has sent 750K jobs overseas - Obama likes those outsourcers so why don't you? We know you blindly follow him follow him on this!
LMAO
responded to the wrong poster, Julia ...oops... there is still a point there.
Reb, that came almost word for word from Rush Limbaugh, Obama is. Wow, how stupid are you.
So you listen to Rush a lot do you John?
John my words are my own I never listen to Rush I am at work during day ahole.
Norquist??? I thought a senator or rep is elected by his or her constituents not this man! It was foolish for these GOP officials to sign it in the first place. They are treating him like some 'god' which to me is blasphemy. Don't they have guts and do what a few are doing by saying that they care more about their country than some pledge to this man!
Off topic but saw a commerical for Hardball featuring the moron Chrissy Matthews. Speaking of those who see Teddy Roosevelt as GOP but he was a "progressive" and for "the little guy". How condescending - the little guy. Twirp.
Chrissy, read about TR and his handling of the coal strike. He cared not a wit about the striking workers nor the owners. He cared about people being able to buy coal to heat their homes for the coming Winter. That is not a "progrssive" stance at all.
Many other examples dispel the modern day theory TR was a "progressive".
Chrissy mentions TR's environmental position as more proof he was a "progressive". Hogwash. He was a hunter and a published orinthologist who loved the outdoors and set aside federally protected lands. Do not think for even a minute if drilling for oil for the good of all Americans included drilling on federally protected lands he would not do it. See his stance on coal strike noted above.
Lefties are FOS.
At least Crissy is a real man and not like those limp wristed homos like Bill O'Rielly and Sean Hannity. Those boys could suck a golf ball through 50 yards of garden hose. They are even more lady like than Gretta.
Chris Mathews, the hero of the Left! All hail!
stay on point... you are boring people
Teddy Roosevelt actually founded the Progressive Party! LOL
Look at the Progressive Party platform. Which modern party does it sound like to you?
In the social sphere the platform called for
A National Health Service to include all existing government medical agencies.
Social insurance, to provide for the elderly, the unemployed, and the disabled
Limited injunctions in strikes
A minimum wage law for women
An eight hour workday
A federal securities commission
Farm relief
Workers' compensation for work-related injuries
An inheritance tax
A Constitutional amendment to allow a Federal income tax
The political reforms proposed included
Women's suffrage
Direct election of Senators
Primary elections for state and federal nominations
The platform also urged states to adopt measures for "direct democracy", including:
The recall election (citizens may remove an elected official before the end of his term)
The referendum (citizens may decide on a law by popular vote)
The initiative (citizens may propose a law by petition and enact it by popular vote)
Judicial recall (when a court declares a law unconstitutional, the citizens may override that ruling by popular vote)
However, the main theme of the platform was an attack on the domination of politics by business interests, which allegedly controlled both established parties. The platform asserted that
To destroy this invisible Government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day
To that end, the platform called for
Strict limits and disclosure requirements on political campaign contributions
Registration of lobbyists
Recording and publication of Congressional committee proceedings
TR founded the progressive party as a third party candidate and knew he needed to PANDER, as you lefties do now, to get attention and have a shot to gt back in the arena and win the '12 election.
By 1916, when Bull Moosers begged him to run again on their progressive platform TR instead recommended they nominate a leading conservative of the day - his own FU to the progressives who by that time he was calling kooks and radicals.
So much for the tripe you have heard from your prof or that you teach RE ELECT a chump.
This is definitely off topic, but it cracked me up....just read a bit about some hostility between Reid and McConnell on the Senate floor today, and this is McConnell's solution to try and reign in the filibustering that has stagnated legislation: lol, typical pub. Btw, it's time for some of these guys to retire. It's 2012, and they need to move on....
"If Reid wants to defeat filibusters, McConnell suggested, he should “use the fatigue factor to grind down opposition” by forcing senators who were filibustering motions or bills to stay on the Senate floor and keep speaking."]
The fatigue factor???? Does any reasonable person not see this as laughable language from yet another pub "leader"?
OMG all you people are soooo stupid. This is all drama from Washington. Neither one of these parties represent us. They are all in the big sandbox together and it's all a big farce to keep us occupied. Just look at the people that work for Obama. They have the same backgrounds as the people that worked for Bush. You are being scammed.
BTW this is not going to get fixed. We are never going to fix this debt-it's too far gone.
ya gotta read the whole article....
How come I didn't see any republicans in Hurricane Sandy's path say... "No, don't help me FEMA... Rush Limbaugh needs a tax cut." Funny... I didn't see any republicans in Sandy's path. Just liberal takers who were glad the republicans didn't make emergency management a for profit business like they wanted to do.
Jersey (where I'm from) has lots of pubs (and of course dems) who are receiving monetary help from FEMA even as we e-speak. If anyone cares, FEMA has been pretty good this time around.....not at all like Katrina....Staten Island is still suffering a lot tho.
Taking a pledge to 'never' do something is just dumb. Doesn't matter if you're a member of congress, or a member of any group.
This is all just theater for the sheep (us). The fact of the matter is that the estimated increase in revenue from the tax increases will be about $165 Billion over the next ten years! WOW! Since we are slated to spend approximately $1.2 trillion more then we bring in each year this means that we will only increase out debt buy a mere one trillion one hundred eighty-three billion five hundred million, give or take a few bucks, each year. What a relief! And to think I was worried that we were going to have a debt problem for our children and grand children. Guess I can mark that concern off the list.
The GOP/TP had better shove that pledge up Grover's ass. Do what is right for this, YOUR country, FOOLS!!! Taking the pledge of an idiot, makes you one too!
So thats why the gop/tp is full of idiots, they love Grover. Get over Grover!!!
Hey, thats cool! Get over Grover!!!
yes, it is.
So is roll over Grover....
Hold onto your wallets except the dems. They think that this government has an intention of controlling spending. NOT! These congressmen could makes a training program to teach kangaroo's to dance a "help the poor and educate or kids issue"! This government spends 25-30% too much money on everything with no reform. Now, they want more!
jolly:
Pathetic isn't it? But you just can't convince these Liberals to stop.
It's like a Heroin addiction.
Anyone that actually thinks that the economic meltdown was caused by Clinton and congressional Democrats is, to say the least, ignorant and gullible and very susceptible to brainwashing by right wing radio. Get a clue! Bush and the Republicans were in charge for eight years and what did they do to fix the problem? NOTHING! Why? Because they are strongly against regulating the financial services industry. Stop listening to Fox and start trying the use your brain.
Yeah, you're right. That clip of Bahney Fwank telling congress how stwong Fannie mae and fweddie mac were was obviously a forgery.
The pledge of NOT to raise taxes was not to Norquist but to the American people. This country has a spending problem, BIG TIME. These RINO'S need to get a backbone. Cut spending, do it NOW!!!
A couple of observations:
During the VP debate Joe Biden said the Obama plan is to raise taxes on the rich, thereby gaining $500 Billion over ten years.
Barack Obama has said he'd like to raise taxes on the rich and raise $1.5 Trillion over ten years.
Point 1 - No congress is under any obligation to follow the budgets set by their predecessors.
Recent federal deficits:
2007 - $161 Billion
2008 - $495 Billion
2009 - $1.413 Trillion
2010 - $1.293 Trillion
2011 - $1.3 Trillion
2012 - $1.327 Trillion.
Since apparently the windfall the democratic party hopes to extract from the rich over the next TEN years will approximately cover the deficit for any ONE recent year, do we have ANY anticipation of actually CUTTING any spending?
Bman:
"do we have ANY anticipation of actually CUTTING any spending?"
With this administration in place? NO. We DO NOT have ANY anticipation of cutting any spending.
In fact spending will probably increase.
The Republicans are working for, and trying to implement spending cuts, but the Democrats are working just as hard or harder to keep , and increase the spending.
I hope I didn't ruin your day.
Frobose,
Actually the Republicans are not looking for spending cuts but they are pushing to slow the increases. On defense we should have major reductions with the war in Iraq ended and Afghanistan slowing down but that money is just being spent someplace else
No problem Frobose, I was just wondering if I could lay it out simply enough that even a liberal could understand there's a problem.
@Bman42, well I'll see if I could lay it out simply enough that you regressive's can understand. Yes there is a problem, that problem started in 1980, and came home to roost in 2007. Both the liberal and regressive parties are to blame.
The huge budget that the war machine gets is going to be cut. And the pork loving regressive Senators are against that. Yes, we do need a strong defensive military, no doubt about it.
But we do not need to be the world cops. Cut all foreign aid, bring all the troops home, let those nations support their military, who cares? We don't need the middle east oil, so the hell with them also. Lets tax the hell out of each company that shipped American jobs overseas. If those companies move competly out, fine. They won't like the tariffs that are put on their goods coming into this country.
Close all the tax loop holes on everything. You can deduct one interest payment on one mortage only. You have several homes, it's the one you currently reside in that you can deduct the interest on. No child tax breaks. You have children, should have planned for them before you had them. Personal responsibility that the regressives crow about.
So where have these azhats been for the last 4 years, I forgot failing in their sole plan to undermine the POTUS.
If you have a family of 4 and are making 1 mil a year and are paying 20% (instead of the 15 to 17% that the 1%ers actually pay) that leaves you a total of 800,000 or 200,000 for each member of the family for the year. On the other hand if you're working class blue collar making what the average pay for a year (approximately 50,000) is and pay 33% (a little low but easier to work with) you have 33,334 (app) or 8,333 (app) for each member of the family. Let's be nice and say both parents are working and the kids are left to fend for themselves. With the 1%ers making 1 mil a year we'll say the little woman is only making half what her hubby is making 'cause everyone knows that a woman isn't nearly as good as a man and should only make half for the same job that a real man does. So we have 20% of 1,500,000 which is 300,000. This leaves 1,200,000 or a mere 300,000 for each member of the, obviously, destitute family for a year. Let's, on the other hand, give the working class blue collar wife the full average pay for working class people in this country and say she is indeed making 50,000 a year. That gives the blue collar working middle class folks 100,000 a year with 33,333 (and change) coming out for taxes which leaves the family with 66,664 total or 16,666 per member of the family for a year. STFU you frigging slimy 1%ers, bootlickers, hangeroners, apologists and sycophants and pay your frigging fair share of taxes in this country and stop riding the backs of the working middle class.
The 1%ers don't want to pay -any- taxes if at all possible and if they could they'd have us all working for 10 cents an hour and in debt to the frigging company store and our kids and grandkids in debt just like they did. Tennesse Ernie Ford had a hit in the 50's singing about coal miners "16 tons and what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt. Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go. I owe my soul to the company store." You obviously would like people to forget that, scumsuckers, but it's not going to happen. Eat the frigging rich. Their money isn't going anywhere. lol
JC2.2,
Sorry but your numbers are wrong. Those who make a million pay on average 20% but those who make between 30 - 50,000 pay 4.4% and those who make 50,000 - 100,000 pay 7.7%. Nobody pays 33% because we have a progressive tax rate with a top bracket of 35% which means you only pay the highest rate on income above a certain level..
http://www.cnbc.com/id/49965086
You cannot make up facts to make your story what you want it to be.
BS I paid 33+% for 40+ years. Take that BS and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.
Now who's talking income tax and who's talking income and payroll taxes?
JC2.2
Sorry but that is a lie. The 35% tax bracket is only on income over $388,350 and the tax bracket for people earning $50,000 is 15%. Maybe you are including your Social Security and Medicare which separate and with the employer match is over 13%.
Tax Bracket Married Filing Jointly Single
10% Bracket
$0 – $17,400
$0 – $8,700
15% Bracket
$17,400 – $70,700
$8,700 – $35,350
25% Bracket
$70,700 – $142,700
$35,350 – $85,650
28% Bracket
$142,700 – $217,450
$85,650 – $178,650
33% Bracket
$217,450 – $388,350
$178,650 – $388,350
35% Bracket
Over $388,350
Over $388,350
And that is before deductions which lower your rate.
BMAN,
The payroll taxes go to cover Social Security and Medicare so you get that money back
And are you actually going to lie your arse off and say that you're only paying 4,400 dollars in taxes if you make 100,000 a year or compare a family of 4 making 1,200,000 a year to a family of 4 making less than 100,000. You one of their bootlickers or are you a 1%er? Let me be redundant. Eat the frigging rich. Their money isn't going anywhere. lol
Actually, Jerry, social security is a pay as you go deal. Any money I've contributed over the last 40 years has been used to pay benefits to enrollees at the time. What I have is a promise from the government that when I reach retirement they'll take money away from somebody else to give me.
So Bishop Willard of the Magic Panties paying 17% according to his tax return that he released, by your table, means he made only app 50,000 that year is that right? Or is he a frigging tax evader? (which all the frigging 1%ers are) lol
Their money isn't going anywhere JC? Are you really that naive? Go ahead and raise their tax rates to where you want. That money'll be out of this country so fast your head will spin.
Most of it is out of the country in offshore accounts anyway along with our jobs that the POS outsourced so they could pad their offshore accounts even more but the wonderful thing about the New World Order is that there are fewer and fewer places for the pond scum to hide. Slap a frigging 100% tariff on any company's product that outsourced and then shipped back to sell to American workers that they screwed out of jobs with their outsourcing.
hey americans!!!...wake up!!!!.....before dollars become tax revenue they are YOUR DOLLARS earned by hard work.....YOUR DOLLARS do not belong to the federal government.......the feds are worse than the mafia when it comes to extorting YOUR DOLLARS for bullshiat programs........and i can't resist.....obama won the election and he sucks just like he did before the election.....
And your point is mcpaddywack? Bush also sucked, and Clinton got blowed. What else is new? Take your meds and get back into your mommy's basement.
The majority of the American people who voted to re-elect Obozo just shows you how many uniformed citizens are roaming the streets of this country. He did get the gimme stuff vote and there is no doubt those who re-elected him cast an emotional vote instead of a reasonable vote.
We have so many uneducated and materialistic morons running around loose who only want the government to take care of their selfish needs. I would say at least 45 percent of them don't even know who George Washington or Thomas Jefferson was! They know about vampires, George Clooney, othe movie stars and most of all the people who are going to give them stuff!
This country is heading down hill fast and the fiscal cliff is right in front of them and they don't even know or understand what our debt and deficit is! They liked Obozo and he said he would give them stuff and that is all they wanted and so they filled in the box for him at the voting poll! Any idiotn who has enough sense to come in out of a hail storm knows you have to cut spending and raising taxes does not balance the budget! The far left liberals and the rest of the losers who think Obozo is going to make things better and get more jobs by raising taxes on a few rich people are out to lunch!
Those in power want to keep their power and if they have to screw you to get theirs you are going to get royally screwed. The military cuts will devastate this country and make us weaker than we already are because of Obozo. The debt will climb to 25 Trillion if this moron gets his way and for the handout gang, your handouts will stop immediately. Get ready because it is on its way.
Yes Rick, and you think Mitt wouldn't be doing the same freaking thing? You are correct, those in power want to keep their power. But one thing everyone forgets, if we go over that cliff, so do they, and they have more to lose than the average American.
And after we are over the cliff, who is going to be serving the foreclosure papers? Won't be the cops, as they will be in the same boat as their neighbors. Won't be the banksters, as they know what would happen to them by the home owner they screwed.
But according to your past posts Rick, you just can't stand the fact that we have a black President. Your past and present posts prove it, even though you are too chicken to come right out and say it.