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Subscribe to RSSNBC's Domenico Montanaro reports that although some Republicans have changed their tone on a new-no-taxes pledge, they aren't putting tax rate increases on the table.
Some Republicans appear to be softening what was once a hard stance on their no-taxes pledge as the end-of-the-year deadline on the so-called “fiscal cliff” approaches.
But it’s not clear how far they would go – if they would raise rates on the wealthiest, as President Obama wants, or if they are simply willing to go along with eliminating some loopholes and deductions to raise revenue. And those who have been outspoken on the topic thus far are not seen as the key players in the ongoing negotiations.
Alex Wong / Getty Images
Select Committee on Intelligence ranking member Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) gets on the Senate subway as he leaves after a hearing on the Benghazi attack November 16, 2012 on Capitol Hill in Washington, DC.
“I care more about my country than I do about a 20-year-old pledge,” Sen. Saxby Chambliss of Georgia told a local TV station from his home state. “If we do it his way then we’ll continue in debt, and I just have a disagreement with him about that.”
Chambliss is one of several congressional Republicans who have indicated they might break with an anti-tax pledge pushed by activist Grover Norquist.
NBC's Chuck Todd tells Savannah Guthrie that House Republicans are stalling a compromise in the "fiscal cliff" debate, unlike the Senate, where members are more keen to strike a compromise.
On the Sunday shows and Monday morning TV, Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) and Bob Corker (R-TN), as well as Reps. Eric Cantor (R-VA) -- the House minority leader -- and Peter King (R-NY), joined Chambliss in downplaying the “Taxpayer Protection Pledge.” Norquist’s 58-word pledge has been a mainstay in Republican politics since 1986. In 2011, every GOP presidential hopeful, including Mitt Romney (and excluding Jon Huntsman) signed it.
NBC's Domenico Montanaro reports on the increased number of pledges that Republican presidential candidates are being asked to sign in this campaign. One pledge stands apart, a no-new-taxes pledge, whose creator has influenced day-to-day legislation and is vowing to fight any effort to get find revenue in the new congressional supercommittee charged with closing the national debt.
“I agree with Grover — we shouldn’t raise rates,” Graham said on ABC, “but I think Grover is wrong when it comes to we can’t cap deductions and buy down debt.” Graham added, “I will violate the pledge, long story short, for the good of the country, only if Democrats will do entitlement reform.”
Corker told CBS on Monday: “I’m not obligated on the pledge. I made Tennesseans aware, I was just elected, the only thing I’m honoring is the oath I take when I serve, when I’m sworn in this January.”
King, of New York, said on Meet the Press Sunday: “I agree entirely with Saxby Chambliss -- a pledge you signed 20 years ago, 18 years ago, is for that Congress... I think everything should be on the table.”
Norquist, in fact, says the fact that no House Republican has voted for a tax increase in 22 years is directly a product of his pledge. Norquist does not just mandate that lawmakers not vote for tax increases, but also that any bill they sign onto has to be “revenue neutral.”
In other words, cutting deductions and loopholes, for example, would also be out if not offset by further tax cuts. But Republicans and Democrats face an end-of-the-year deadline to try and figure out a way to avert the steep military and domestic spending cuts and taxes going up for everyone when the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of the year.
USA Today's Susan Page, American Bridge 21st Century President Rodell Mollineau, and YG Action Fund Senior Adviser Brad Dayspring join Chuck Todd to talk about the impending fiscal cliff.
That some senators appear ready to talk revenue is not as significant as what House members say. It is widely believed that a deal would be struck between the White House and the House GOP, not with the Senate.
House Speaker John Boehner has said that “revenue” is on the table, but the president wants to raise rates for the wealthiest. Obama campaigned on the idea, but it’s not at all clear whether the House Republican rank-and-file would sign on to any rate increase.
Cantor, who wields some influence with the GOP conference’s more conservative members, is seen as more of a keystone, and he, too, seemed willing to go along with at least some revenue increases.
“There has been a lot said about this pledge,” Cantor said on MSNBC’s Morning Joe Monday. “When I go to the constituents, it’s not about that pledge. It’s about trying to solve problems. House Speaker John Boehner went to the White House and said, ‘Hey, Republicans in the House are willing to put revenues on the table.’ That’s a big move.”
House Majority Leader Rep. Eric Cantor, R-Va., sits down with Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, John Heilemann, and Mike Barnicle to talk about Israel, Egypt, the Grover Norquist tax pledge, the future of fiscal cliff negotiations, and why not everything is on the table in tax talks.
“We were elected to fix problems,” Cantor said, before adding, “Even if you raise all those taxes, it doesn’t fix your problem.”
In a follow-up interview, Cantor’s office stressed that he remains against raising tax rates.
“Republicans aren't against tax rate hikes because of any one man or pledge,” spokeswoman Megan Whittemore said. “We are against hiking rates, because they're bad for the economy and hurt jobs. We've put ideas on the table that bring more money in while keeping tax rates where they are to produce job growth. It's now time for President Obama to put his ideas on the table for spending cuts and entitlement reform if he truly embraces a balanced approach.”
For his part, Norquist isn’t backing down. In a statement to NBC News, he took shots at the GOP senators and expressed confidence that no one would violate the pledge.
"Chambliss has been pushing this line since he joined the Gang of Six,” Norquist said. “Lindsey Graham has for two years said he would raise taxes if he got a 10:1 ratio of spending cuts through entitlement reform that could not be undone. There is no news in these two 'changing.'”
And he added, “They have not voted for a tax hike. They have had impure thoughts on present. Their impure thoughts did not change a single GOP vote in the 2011 fight over the debt ceiling which had a real deadline looming. One might have argued that the pledge died in 1990 when a sitting president and many in House leadership broke the pledge. However, the opposite happened, the pledge became more powerful when breaking it was seen to have very real consequence in 1992. After the 1994 election a majority of the House and Senate had signed the pledge."
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Fiscal Cliff - let's go - why not! It will be the only chance we'll ever get to cut spending and it's only a 10% cut! We'll go back into a recession but a recession is coming anyway!
Otherwise taxes will continue to go up for all earners soon and DC will be arguing about what percent Euro- VAT tax we need as we get more indebted and desperate.
One thing is certain, we can go off a fiscal cliff, we can slam into a debt ceiling, we can kick the poor and the old to the curb. Da rich will always be da rich. They will NEVER go hungry!
Cantor is partly correct. It is more about thoughtful and effective problem solving that some talismanic "pledge" never to vote for taxes. Indeed, non-thinking refusal to consider any tax increase often is not in the best interests of protecting taxpayers.
HOWEVER, what seems to escape most people is that the Grover Norquist Pledge, if taken by an elected member of Congress constitutes a violation of their oath of office. To cede to a non-elected individual the responsibility and discretion to exercise the vote of office is a breach of the duty to preserve and protect the Constitution. It does not matter whether a Congressperson decides to vote for or against any given tax revenue measure, after carefully considering the merits of the proposal. That is part of the job duties. But committing in advance not to consider or vote for any tax bill in exchange for financial campaign support from Norquist and Rove PAC money is effectively selling votes. That is not Constitutional and should be considered illegal.
Let's see. Stay the path and don't raise taxes. Americans aren't stupid or illiterate. We can find out how our Representatives voted on what bills faster than days gone by. Another election is comming up in 2 years. This time I think it is for both houses. One house is every 2 years, one house is every 4 years. DON'T RAISE TAXES or HELP THE ECOMONY MOVE FORWARD and you can find yourself on the outside of the PERK FILLED JOB replaced by someone who said they will raise taxes or help the economy move forward. Has happened before when the DEMOCRATS lost a lot of seats to REPUBLICANS because AMERICANS were upset.
What a bunch of crap from liberal Dem's, 2 percent don't pay there fare share. I've worked hard my whole life, and now that I make over 250,000.00 you consider me rich and I don't pay my fair share?? I paid over 80,000.00 in taxes last year, compared to someone making 45,000.00 with kids, would get all there tax money back. My 80,000.00 in taxes paid for 3 welfare families for the year.
I paid more than 4 times what you paid. The sad part is the numbers tell the story. Your taxes went primarily to military spending, not welfare. Just the facts man.
Let's look at it a little different. If you have a family of 4 and are making 1 mil a year and are paying 20% (instead of the 15 to 17% that the 1%ers actually pay) that leaves you a total of 800,000 or 200,000 for each member of the family for the year. On the other hand if you're working class blue collar making what the average pay for a year (approximately 50,000 a year) is and pay 33% (a little low but easier to work with) you have 33,334 (app) or 8,333 (app) for each member of the family. Let's be nice and say both parents are working and the kids are left to fend for themselves. With the 1%ers making 1 mil a year we'll say the little woman is only making half what her hubby is making 'cause everyone knows that a woman isn't nearly as good as a man and should only make half what a real man does. So we have 20% of 1,500,000 which is 300,000. This leaves 1,200,000 or a mere 300,000 for each member of the, obviously, destitute family for a year. Let's, on the other hand, give the working class blue collar wife the full average pay for working class people in this country and say she is indeed making 50,000 a year. That gives the blue collar working middle class folks 100,000 a year with 33,333 (and change) coming out for taxes which leaves the family with 66,664 total or 16,666 per member of the family for a year. STFU you frigging slimy 1%ers, bootlickers, hangeroners, apologists and sycophants and pay your frigging fair share of taxes in this country and stop riding the backs of the working middle class. Show some personal responsibility you worthless frigging leeches. lol
How about the leeches that won't work do their fair share. This isn't Sherwood forest - you can't take from the rich to give to the poor. Work a little harder if you are jealous of the rich - they earned it they deserve to keep it.
BS. They don't want to pay any taxes and if they could they'd have us all working for 10 cents an hour and in debt to the frigging company store and our kids and grandkids in debt just like they did. Tennesse Ernie Ford had a hit singing about 16 tons "16 tons and what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt. Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go. I owe my soul to the company store." You obviously would like people to forget that @!$%# but it's not going to happen. Eat the frigging rich. Their money isn't going anywhere. lol
Ever hear the phrase "sacrifice the few for the good of the many"? I beleive this applies strongly to the current situatuion. Not saying its morally right to do so but morals hardly play into this situatuion. So I say let the few (the rich) be the first to fall so that the many (the middle and lower classes) can survive.
If one should seek fame and fortune let he be the first to the chopping block
-The great philospher: lolzuaranass
These hacks are worse than whores bcz at least a whore does their job. all of these POS should be taken out and shot w Norquist being the 1st. What a total mockery of govt and leadership.
As a physician, I would suggest you watch closer what you eat. After all, if your diet brought out Grover, you must eat like sh!t.
If we are going to raise taxes on the wealthy & corporations (as we should); why don't we start taxing the charities and religious institutions? As someone claimed early - we could probably balance the national debt in five years.....just taxing the Catholic and Mormon churches alone.
I second dat! Tax those freebee grabbin, good for nothin, religious institutions!
It is hard to believe one of the major political parties in the United States was so vocal in the 2012 race about two party goals: Beat Obama and no rise it taxes!
The goal they should have be vocalizing was to restore the United States to greatness and exactly how they planned to do it.
They did not demonstrate vision in the 2012 campaign.
I am SO sick of the use of assinine term, ENTITLEMENT, used by Romney and his ilk.
We retirees who depend on Social Security and Medicare just to survive financially already have PAID for what we get now as benefits while we were still working! So, Yes!! We ARE entitled. We know we PREPAID for these benefits. We see it as getting OUR money back as intended.
Had the AHs in DC not 'borrowed" from the funds that we paid into the SS fund from every paycheck .... or AT LEAST repaid what they so-called "borrowed", OUR money would still be there and OUR "entitlement money" would be available for the purpose for which WE paid in for most of our working lives. Instead, we are being blamed as part of the cause of the financial failure of the government. What utter BS!!!
You will use far more than you put in. Entitlements technically refers to Medicare and Social Security, bue he was speaking of the welfare lifers and the masses (more than double under Obama) who use EBT. Medicaid and Medicare are filled with scammers. Obama stole 720 billion from Medicare to support Obama Care. Under Obama care, when the prioritize care, disabled and seniors are at the bottom of the list. Which is the party who is dishonest? Have a nice day.
katie5555, that's a trick question. They both are.
The Republicon Party is the party that is dishonest.
When the repubs aren't wearing adult diapers and getting spanked by high class whores or going down to the Greyhound bus station mens bathroom to solict BJ's or starting record numbers of filibusters so that nothing gets done they're trying to figure out how to lie, weasel or steal from the working middle class. Repubs are the most dishonest, lying, disingenuous POSs that walk. Dems aren't much better but they are better. lol
I am sick and tired of politics by professional politicians.
It is time for Americans to stand up and make these two bit back biting lying say anything to get my sorry butt back in office even though I absolutely will not do one thing that will not help me and to hell with the American Taxpayer, do what is in our best interest. We vote to put these good for nothings in office. Then we don't have the stomachs to throw these bums out whenever they will not do the right thing for us.
Keep a record or go online and find their voting record. Stop listening to the lying ads and vote according to their voting record. Tell them to get all of the programs out of social security and there literally will be Billions to take care our retirees. Then if they will not get those other uses out of SS throw them out of office.
This is our country and we should only allow those to serve whom want to do the right thing for us. Lower cost as opposed raising taxes. Eliminate Excess, Second source EVERYTHING including the strike fighter engines. No more cost plus contracts, if you cannot figure out how much to charge for an item, then get out of business. No tagging an item onto a bill. Every bill and or cost stands on its own and must be voted on to be approved.
If politicians are to busy to be at a session to vote or consistantly misses a vote or session... They're out come election time.
Can you just decide when you want to work or not and keep your job? That was rhetorical, of course you can't. Neither should the politicians.
Stand Up Now America.
Obama has a mandate??? well so does the house! the republicans won the house again and that means hold fast and make the president either back down or run us off of the fiscal cliff. The current slate of republicans seem to have no spine. why would you show your hand and then try to negotiate anything? I'd love to get these idiots in a poker game.
REPUBLICANS HOLD YOUR GROUND and wait until the president puts his so called plan out there before you even blink
Republicans are not going to hold thier ground. They'd all like to have jobs next election. They know damn good and well they could have worked with Dems and help out this country but instead tried to make Obama a 1 term pres. Now their asses are on the line and they know it.
This is not about taxes per se. This about culture and about class. Republicans have raised taxes. Remember that? It was back when people put the country in front of their rant.
Raising the top tax rate will only have a marginal effect on job growth which the CBO says would be more than offset by the reduction in the deficit. (The nay-sayers on that one are the same people who will tell you that Creationism is science.)
We keep hearing the same myths over and over on this issue as if they will somehow become more real in the retelling. What is actually being argued here is the case for the transcendent moral superiority of the rich (who are mostly older and mostly white).
Enough already. We had the election and now it's time to move on.
Graham, Cantor, Lindsay and others...all a bunch of ball washing b_____d's. Gutless, lacking principles, having no ideals they are not ready to shuck at the first sign of pressure. Think about this, if congress were to tax everything millionaires gained this last year, the government would gain approximately 1.6 trillion dollars, approximately the amount of Obama spending deficit (one can't call it a budget deficit because the Pres. and his party have not generated a budget in the last 1400 days or so even tho the law specifically states they are obligated to make on each year). That still leaves a 17 trillion dollar deficit to deal with along with the funding of the government. I would like the congressmen to think of this: if a person in the real world was a profligate spender, married to a profligate spending mate and was on the verge of bankruptcy, couldn't pay their debts, etc. and went to his boss and said "I spend more than I make and my mate will not allow me to cut things out of our expenses, my creditors are hounding me for payments I can make but must borrow from other sources to meet my obligations. For this reason, I need you to give me a raise in pay to meet my expenditures!" What would you expect the employer to say? That is exactly what these jackasses in congress and this stupid ass in the White House are demanding and there is no shortage of morons across this country that are cheering them on!! I truly believe half the nation has gone mad! No one can be this ignorant or just plain stupid. The Dems and these limp-wristed Reps may just get their tax increases, the cuts will not come, just smoke n mirrors, the Fiscal Cliff has already been passed, without auster measures there is no denying the collapse of the government, the nation...the America that once was. All for a lack of a few good men.
This entire issue is a red herring and a "head fake" by politicians of both sides.
Even if the dems got all the tax increased they want, it wouldn't put a dent in the deficit.
The real issue is Government spending!
No politician is going to be the one that takes the "pacifier" out of the mouth of a couple of hundred million spoiled brats, that VOTE!
Ali:
I'd be happy if they just stopped handing out pacifiers.
That at least would be a start.
Republicans are real bad at math. Old Grover gets one vote at the polls while the people he pizzes off get some where around 61 million. Do the math Mitch and Boehner.
croc:
Lets do ALL the math. Shall we?
How about counting the 59 million that voted along with him.
I got a number for you, 16,000,000,000,000 and growing to 21,000,000,000,000. Howz them apples, sparky?
Marines versus leftotards. Who would win? We keep going, we'l find out!
Just dumb! Nothing else to say....
@Fiesty,Alaskagirl,and all other dems on here---What exactly do you have against the rich?Could it be that your not and you have to work for them everyday or did you get a job from a poor person?Are you on welfare and foodstamps and just want more taxes from the rich thinking you might get a little more in your stocking this Christmas(oops I hope i dont offend anyone by using that word)?And to alaskagirl-to be a Dem and hate big oil like all dems do just think where your state and people would be without it,you could kiss that check you get every year from them goodbye.But you spend it just like you earned it and still bash them for not doing enough,you ought be ashamed to even cash it.
I don't get the hate the rich people thing either. I don't feel as if anyone owes me anything except the government. They took my money for 40+ years and promised social security without giving me a choice in the matter. I feel like they should be held accountable for the promises they make to all of us.
It is the politicians that take all those dollars from lobbyists and then change laws and de-regulate banks and end up screwing the tax payers. The rich do the bribery but the politicians are the ones that sold us all out. The blame Obama has placed on the wealthy in this country is big fat scam and a lie. The only reason all these Democrats are blindly following along with this BS is because he is giving them free stuff. Basically the same thing that got us into this mess. It's called Bribery to us common folks and it's against the law. So Obama stands up there and starts a class war on half of the guilty. Yeah the powerful should not be bribing politicians but the leaders hold the key in everything. They could say no. They could do the right thing but they don't.
Just goes to show you no matter what your station in life people are greedy and will sell their fellow countrymen out and give away all their freedom to gain for themselves. And the government is mighty generous at squandering other peoples money. If the ultra rich came out and gave all the poor their money all these Dems would turn on Obama like a pack of hungry wolves.
The anger in this country is totally mis-directed and it will be until the money runs out.
Beach bum You sound like you are prejudice, what are you Muslim???
Don't worry Teabaggers... Rush Limbaugh and FOX News will whip these Grover Norquist deserting republicans back in line and make them forget the pledge they took to serve America. No need for you republicans to worry. No republican will dare do what's right for America as long as Obama is in the White House.
I don't thenk the tea baggers are worried, at least not as much as the madow libs!
So you admit that no republicans would ever uphold their pledge to America over their pledge to Grover Norquist.
The 'baggernuts are readying themselves to commit mass political suicide, in this "Age of Obama"! Their neo-godnut, Grover Nutquist-- is gonna make his tribe of whiney lambs try to go out in a political blaze of non-glory the way Jim Jones and his bag of nuts did, in real life.
Will someone tell Grover Nutquist to stay off taxpayer-paid federal highways?
The Obama, Maddow-Libs vote committed suicide for all of us. Were not the Maddow-Libs the ones that were going to riot if Romney won? Yes, I think so. What a bunch of freaking hypocrites!
Greg, Well said!
Only the Democrats could tell the 5 percent that pay 60 percent of ALL Federal TAXES that they don't pay enough while they are probably one of the 47 percent who pay nothing in Federal Income tax once they have gotten their tax refund. Fairness my A%%.
We fought for our independence from England and taxation without representation. Now, with 47 percent voting and paying no Federal taxes, there is representation without taxation. As long as this goes on, our country is doomed.
If you will be subject to this massive tax increase, I would take the summers off, retire, move to another country or Texas if they can Secede.
Katie, tell me, how did you enjoy your legitimate rape? Do you like walking three feet behind your man? How does it feel to be classed behind the family dog in your family?
@Fiesty,Alaskagirl,and all other dems on here---What exactly do you have against the rich?Could it be that your not and you have to work for them everyday or did you get a job from a poor person?Are you on welfare and foodstamps and just want more taxes from the rich thinking you might get a little more in your stocking this Christmas(oops I hope i dont offend anyone by using that word)?And to alaskagirl-to be a Dem and hate big oil like all dems do just think where your state and people would be without it,you could kiss that check you get every year from them goodbye.But you spend it just like you earned it and still bash them for not doing enough,you ought be ashamed to even cash it.
Nah we just decided that for the good of the many the few must perish. Try not to take it personally.
If one seeks fame and fortune let he be the first to snuff it
-the great philospher: lolzuranass
The only thing I have against the rich is they do not nor have they for the last 30 years paid their fair share of taxes. What I have against republicans is the irresponsible outlook on paying your fair share to support the country and government that makes it all possible. You are a prime example of stupid. Some people don't get a Christmas. I don't even hate big oil, even though they have been ripping us off for years. Tell me, what kind of thinking is it that you give welfare to companies that profit in the billions? I can tell you but I am afraid they would throw me out of here for the profanity.
@John- im sick of hearing fair share.Who pays the most to the govt for them to abuse-the rich.top 10%pay majority of all taxes.most people are where they are today by choices they made in life me being one of them.i am one of the 65000 and under crowd but i still dont believe that taxing the rich more is fair,cut spending,balance the budget or dont get paid is how it should be in dc,if i didnt do my job id be fired.since the dems have been in controll of senate they have not passed a budget(6 yrs)yet harry still has a job.Obama sent them one and was downed 97-0 wow what a leader.Just remember tax the wealthy and raise taxes on buisnesses does no good ,govt will spend it just like a they have in the past nothing more than to pander to the poor to keep their job.As far as big oil-do you really think that if the govt took away the ,as you call it,welfare that they would sustain the loss,if so you are to far gone-corporations do not pay taxes they collect them from us
held a variety of jobs during my working days, I worked with my hands, I had good paying jobs and some that wasn't so much pay as it was rewarding, is why I took them in the first place. When I made more money I paid more taxes, but I never thought it was punitive. Since I was physically unable to go to war, I worked and helped pay for it. Even though I am anti war. When hard times came on the nation like when Reagan was president I didn't mind part of my taxes going to help these people out. Today the republicans in this country suck big road apples in my opinion. It is the only thing I feel that they are good for. You want to live here and enjoy the fruits of freedom but you don't want to pull your weight nor do you want to contribute to the well being of our freedom. That makes me unhappy as hell. How any of you bat rastards can look in a mirror long enough to shave amazes me.
Great Post John.......
So paying more than you get to keep is fine with you (federal + State+ Local)? Most wealthy people already pay more than 50 percent of their income in taxes. The top 5 percent already pay 60 percent of Federal Taxes. Do you show appreciation or contempt? Without those that are willing to take the risk to start a business and the long hours invested to make it successful, 2/3 of Americans would be without work. That is right. 2/3 of Americans work in small businesses. They are restaurants, cupcake stores, retail stores, accounting offices, real estate offices, hotels, doctors offices and so on. what sacrifices are you making? Democrats made the mess with the Affordable housing Act that caused the housing bubble. Democrats (Clinton) caused the loss of manufacturing jobs with NAFTA (they told us we would be a service economy...we told them this was a bad idea).
Katie, that is a lie, most rich, Romney being an example only pay about 15% on their earned income. You are a liar from the get go, Clinton signed the bill making it law, but George H.W. Bush put the idea before congress and it was a republican congress that made NAFTA happen, and it wasn't any of them that caused azzhole, greedy CEO's to care more about their bottom line then they do about America. You really are as dumb as a douche bag .
The top 5% pay 60% of taxes. But own 90% of the money. They do not pay enough. Here is some advice, turn Fox off, and then STFU and learn something.
Everett, thank you. I get so sick of thes bat rastards claiming to be American.
I am jumping into this discussion late. I am intending this post for some of the early posts that I read applauding Obama's re-election and his desire to raise taxes. Simple economics people. Government hand outs, government services, and that includes the military, cost money. When you personally have a deficit budget you can either earn more (if you can) or cut spending. It is that simple. Our problem in this country is that we have too many people wanting the "Government" to "help" them. Read handouts. CUT THE SPENDING and leve the tax rates alone. If you do not hve the wealthy starting, operating, and running businesses due to too many taxes we will all be totally dependent on the Government. (read socialism/communism). As to Obama winning in a landslide or by mandate. Try taking a look at how the country voted on one of those nice first grade level colored maps. If you live in the city (and are more dependent on government services) you voted for Obama. To win the presidency you only need to win the majority in the big cities and you are in! The only time this scenario changes is when we are in such dire straights that even the city government-dependents decide they need a change. THis all is a repeat of 100 years ago when the workers in the factories thought that the factories were theirs because they worked there. Never mind the guy who put up all the capital to start the factory and took all the risks. Nothing us losers can do now but deal in cash and hunker down.
Kirk:
It's worse than that.
Here we go again. Are you ready? Are you sitting down? Here comes a F-A-C-T. Complete with a Link so that anyone with half a brain can verify it.
According to government figures a record number of citizens expatriated last year. And we are on track to exceed that number this year. And next year will no doubt be even worse now that Obama is re elected. And unless something is done to make this country more business friendly every year the number will get larger. The productive, self reliant people are leaving. And they're taking their wealth, businesses, and tax money with them.
Pretty soon you Leeches won't have anyone left to suck the life out of but each other. Good luck with that.
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48118502/ns/business-personal_finance/t/socialite-dumps-us-passport-most-taxes-too
Waaaaaa, sniff, sniff, you bat rastards ought to leave this country, it will be a far better place without azzholes like you two.