I thought this article was quite interesting:

PHNOM PENH—With Secretary of State Hillary Clinton planning to wrap up her service in the next few months, she and President Barack Obama have been spending some quality time together, waxing nostalgic about their work in office over the past four years and their history as rivals in the hard fought 2008 presidential campaign.

"On the flight back from Rangoon to Cambodia, they spent basically the entire flight alone in his personal office on Air Force One just reminiscing about the last four years, but as the president said, it wasn't just the last four years, they've been through a lot together over the last five or six years and, in fact, unqiue among people they've been at this working as hard as they can for five or six years now," Deputy National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes told reporters as Obama and Clinton were in Cambodia for Asian summit meeting.

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/11/obama-hillary-clinton-wax-nostalgic-as-she-nears-exit-149987.html

I am thinking, with only a couple of months left, they were going over the "loan" that Obama made to her to pay off the campaign debt she had remaining after the 2008 run. Let's see, four years of service, check. One under the bus "for the team" on Benghazi, check. Maintaining the farce abroad that the administration is in this for the whole world, check. Husband going out on a limb to support the guy for pres that dissed his wife to the extreme in the previous 2008 run, check. Purposely having the Secret Service wake her for meetings late so that she had no time to "make up" and thus looking scary as hell to foreign dignitaries with whom she was about to meet, check.

Yep that should just about do it. I think they may call it free and clear now.

Sorry about this but I want to get it out.

Off topic, I would urge everyone that will to support the labor movement by Wall Mart employees this weekend and shop black Fri some place else and boycott Wally world.

Pat, it's great that President Obama and SoS Clinton had time to just chat; doubt that luxury happens very often.

John in Battle Creek, I have no intention of shopping at Wally world on black Friday. In fact, I avoid the store as much as possible even though it is the only store of its type in my town. I've found that if I watch the sales elsewhere, I can save more money than by going there. Walmart makes many millions in profits every year but passes little of it to their workers. Any corporation that cuts hours to avoid benefits isn't worth much, in my opinion.

John in Battle Creek -

My own "Black Friday" plans this year are the same as they've been every year for the last several - get up early, grab coffee and a bagel at Wawa, pop a Christmas CD in the car player, and head down the back roads for a leisurely two-hour drive to Cape May, NJ. No Wal-Mart, no Target, no big box stores at all. No traffic and no crowds and no pressure. Local businesses only, a small but nice craft show (more locals), browse the antique stores, then finish up the day huddling against the cold with a cup of hot chocolate and a good spot on Sunset Beach to watch the always dramatic winter sunset over the Delaware Bay with a few other hardy souls. It's always good for my own soul, but this year it takes on extra significance, as I've read that Cape May's economy is really hurting due to the large number of cancellations they've had in the tourism trade from people who wrongly assume they were severely damaged by Sandy. So I'm doing my small part to help out the local economy there and hopefully, by extension, the rest of New Jersey as well.

Anyone who would stand in line to go to Wal-Mart instead is out of their mind.

John in Battle Creek

Sorry about this but I want to get it out.

Off topic, I would urge everyone that will to support the labor movement by Wall Mart employees this weekend and shop black Fri some place else and boycott Wally world.

I haven't shopped at Wal-Mart for years for that exact reasons. I do not support companies like Wal-Mart and I try to do most of my shopping in local mom-and-pop stores.

I also switched to a local "hometown" bank.

Just like you, I urge everyone to support businesses that do not exploit their employees.

JoAnne - sounds perfect! Can I join you????

Talk to the Hand

I am thinking, with only a couple of months left, they were going over the "loan" that Obama made to her to pay off the campaign debt she had remaining after the 2008 run.

it appears that Hand did not his meds for his Schizophrenia this morning....

SeekingSanity

JoAnne - sounds perfect! Can I join you????

me, too; me, too. But depending on where we are meeting, I might have to start driving today!

Hey guys! Count me in with you all........in spirit anyway! I do my best to sleep in on "Black Friday". I have never had any desire to get up at the butt crack of dawn to stand in line to buy "stuff" that I know I really do not need to be buying for me or anyone else. I will spend my morning with several steaming cups of espresso strength coffee and then I will hit the Christmas music and begin putting up Christmas decorations. By late afternoon I will be ready for a cocktail or two and then it's time for all the yummy Thanksgiving leftovers thrown together between two thick slices of hearty bread. Now that's a Black Friday worth getting trampled over, in my humble opinion!

Seeking, bayllie, and Alaska Girl -

It's a date! Meet me at the Wawa on Rt. 322 between the Commodore Barry Bridge and Mullica Hill about 7:15 to 7:30 Friday morning. I'll be the very tall blonde in the Christmas sweatshirt in the Honda Civic with the "Cats For Obama - 28 More Years!" bumper sticker still on it. We can keep an eye out for Exit 0 on the way.

P.S. - Singing along with my eclectic collection of Christmas CD's IS required, so start warming up now! And Alaska Girl, you're in charge of lunch - cocktails and leftovers sound perfect, thanks!

JoAnne - I sooooo wish! Sounds like a great time!!!! I'll definitely be there is spirit - singing and everything!

Oh, what a hell of a good time I think we all would have! I have a question, JoAnne. What in the hell is the "Wawa"? LOL

AlaskaGirl-759554

Oh, what a hell of a good time I think we all would have! I have a question, JoAnne. What in the hell is the "Wawa"?

I think it's a gas station - I think. I may have seen it during my travels but not around my Mass area.

Jody, a relationship borne of mutual respect. I always respected Hillary Clinton for joining Barack Obama's Admin. once the election was over in 2008. I was stunned when Obama selected her, but as the entire world has seen, she's done a remarkable job.

Doris Kearn Goodwins' Team of Rivals certainly comes to mind as we see this relationship wind down. How sweet it was.

JoAnne, sounds simply marvelous! Happy Thanksgiving and hope you have a wonderful wonderful day after.

JoAnne in PA

Seeking, bayllie, and Alaska Girl -

It's a date! Meet me at the Wawa on Rt. 322 between the Commodore Barry Bridge and Mullica Hill about 7:15 to 7:30 Friday morning

Not a horrible commute for me - about 6hrs;)

My husband and I stayed at a B&B near the Hershey Park this summer. What a beautiful area!

JoAnne: Wave as you go by! ☺

Pat, definitely mutal respect between them. I read "Team of Rivals", it does come to mind. VP Biden was a rival prior to the IA Caucus and a Hillary supporter; he kept Sec of Def Bob Gates, chose Jon Huntsman. There's probably more.

JoAnne, sounds like a good plan. I don't go anywhere near malls on Black Friday. I shop at the local Mom and Pops if I decide to shop at all that day. There are several nice shops in town that will be busy but not crazy, grabbing and snatching crowds.

Isn't Wawa, one of those places Mitt Romney mentioned during the campaign only he called it Wawas? I never was quite sure what Wawa was but I gather they have good bagels.

I just looked up the Wawa and I want one here! A little trivia. The word "wawa" is a Native American word for the Canada Goose that was found in the Delaware Valley. The Goose is also the symbol used at the Wawa stores.

"What in the hell is the "Wawa"? LOL"

Oh noes......a world without Wawa! Okay, Wawa is a convenience store - like 7-11, only bigger and nicer and cleaner. The first one was an offshoot of the Wawa dairy farm and opened three blocks from where I grew up back in the 1960's; now they have at least 600 locations up and down the mid-Atlantic area. The newer ones also sell gas, but they do a small fortune in coffee and hoagies ("Gotta Havva Wawa!"). Their bagels are actually pretty run-of-the-mill institutional as bagels go, but hey, they're certainly convenient. I do the bacon egg & cheese or pork roll egg and cheese. (Next question: "What in the hell is pork roll?") Oh, and according to the logo on their original milk cartons, "Wawa" means "wild goose" in Lenape Indian.

And Jody nailed it! For those who are ready for a quick trip down Memory Lane with Mitt's Mitticisms:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-mitt-romneys-wawa-remark-backfires-on-msnbc-20120619,0,3801911.story

P.S. - I GUARANTEE you that Joe Biden has been in more than one Wawa in his life and would not make the same mistake!

Edit - Alaska Girl, I see we crossed in the mail. Don't worry, we'll get up there eventually!

Is it my imagination or did the GOP take this presidential loss particularly hard? I wonder why that is? Congress has had an historical low rating for most of his term. McConnell's tactics on the day of the inauguration did not go over well with the country. Together with John Boehner and Eric Cantor and Paul Ryan, they represent the cruelty of today's GOP. The country does not like any of them.

President Obama was leading in most polls for most of the year. Romney never recovered from the GOP primaries, other than a short week or two in October.

So why are they so shocked at the outcome I wonder.

Pat - I believe the Republicans are finding out that the truth hurts. Intelligent voters said "no way" to their divisiveness and hatred and they are stunned. Imagine that?

Hopefully they will come to their senses before they do even more harm to our country. They could possibly salvage something for the GOP if they actually work WITH the President to help the country. It will be interesting to see if they've learned anything!

I do think that the fact that many incoming Republicans in Congress chose NOT to sign pledges to Norquist is a good sign. And, a few who had signed them are not saying they no longer agree with them.

Seeking, that's interesting about the Norquist pledge, something Romney signed. And then he has the audacity to run for the presidency.

What a horrendous 4 years the GOP gave not only the president, but the nation. As well as the 8 yrs under GWB.

They need to either clean house or do their jobs.

Incompetent beyond words.

dangerfield

Hillary has been a good soldier in the Obama administration and her spouse was instrumental in securing the President's 2nd term.

how about "Hilary is just damn good at her job"???? Give credit where credit is due: to Hillary Clinton!

not that i need to speak for Dangerfield but i believe he does give Hillary lots of credit. But Hillary has also been a good soldier in a manner of speaking considering.

bayllie - now you're asking a lot - give Hillary Clinton credit for a good job - by anyone who isn't a Democrat or an Independent? Not gonna happen!

But, Hillary has done a great job!

SeekingSanity-

I will give you an opportunity to read my posts and apologize for your mischaracterizations, before relegating your posts and thoughts to the ignore bin.

I am a comedian by design, and you?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Before a man speaks it is always safe to assume that he is a fool. After he speaks, it is seldom necessary to assume it.

H L Mencken

SeekingSanity,

I know I'm asking too much.

To be a good example, I will give credit to Colin Powell who was also a good SoS. I personally value him even if I don't agree with him on many issues.

dangerfield your wasting your time with Seeking. Apparently Independents can only vote democrat. That makes sense right LOL. Best to ignore the fringe elements of both Bayllie and Seeking. You are definitely one of the more impartial posters on here, one that is usually mislabelled, i know i did it myself.

balyllie - I totally thought Colin Powell was a good SoS. He was misled by the Bush/Cheney duo and had the integrity to step down whenhe realized he had been used. But he was a very good SoS. I still value him and respect him.

I had the opportunity to hear him speak - in person - shortly after he stepped down as SoS. I have nothing but respect for him!

dangerfield - put me on ignore if you'd like. I was making a general statement - not actually directed at you although I can see how you thought it was. Read all the posts and you'll see what I mean. Most of those who are not liberals are putting Hillary down.

SeekingSanity

balyllie - I totally thought Colin Powell was a good SoS. He was misled by the Bush/Cheney duo and had the integrity to step down whenhe realized he had been used. But he was a very good SoS. I still value him and respect him.

yes, he is a classy, intelligent man. He is one who should run for president but I know he chooses his wife's well being over the WH ambitions.

danger- actually as I'm re-reading I realize I was combining what I had read on several posts, not only on this page and definitely not all yours. My apologies!

bayllie - I've heard references to his wife's health before. Do you know what is wrong with her?

SS-

Thank you. There are few who could claim to be more pro Hillary than this guy. And FYI;

The gentleman you disparage in Caesar Augustus has stated on several occasions that he would have voted for Hillary in '08 and this November if she topped the ticket...you could look it up!

Caesar-

It goes with the territory...but then who am I telling?

(The "inside scoop was that Mrs Powell's psychiatric history was the General's reason to eschew electoral politics, as EVERYTHING is sadly fair game in our current political landscape.)

Seeking, unfortunately I don't. I tried to research it but with no result.

dangerfield

(The "inside scoop was that Mrs Powell's psychiatric history was the General's reason to eschew electoral politics, as EVERYTHING is sadly fair game in our current political landscape.)

I found a small mention of that as well but anytime I don't find legitimate sources to back things up, I stay away from it - especially when it involves someone's mental health.

Small mention?

Do better research?

(this took me less than one minute)

====================================

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1995-11-30/news/9511300169_1_clinical-depression-alma-powell-gen-powell

http://www.blisstree.com/2008/06/12/feel/political-figures-and-mental-illness-234/

http://books.google.com/books?id=jjkDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=alma+powell+mental+illness&source=bl&ots=jFNqtsINDP&sig=7tOuuzRJv9aPiPWJIW4sE2Hxk48&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SOOrUPbfB8ar0AGJy4D4AQ&sqi=2&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=alma%20powell%20mental%20illness&f=false

im curious to how one defines legitimate.

The Third link is entitled;

ALMA POWELL TALKS ABOUT DEPRESSION

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that she qualifies...

Baylie?

(Emily Litela?)

dangerfield - if that's the case then clearly a campaign would be much too stressful for her. Good for him for putting her health first!

dangerfield

Small mention?

Do better research?

(this took me less than one minute)

with all due respect: you may consider JET as your source but I don't. Or a fitness magazine or even chicago tribune especially since the article is written based on HEARSAY.

After Enid Golinkin heard that some of the Republican presidential candidates were making remarks about Alma Powell's mental illness, she didn't get depressed. She got mad.

I guess when I say legitimate sources, I mean Colin Powell or Alma Powell - especially as I mentioned before - because we are discussing one's mental health. So sorry if I don't agree with your way of validating your point.

Now, you maybe be right - it maybe her mental health but I guess that would make me uninterested in you proving me wrong because IF that is the reason, I DON"T CARE to dig any further.

Portrait of a fool...

"... with all due respect: you may consider JET as your source but I don't. Or a fitness magazine or even chicago tribune especially since the article is written based on HEARSAY.

I guess when I say legitimate sources, I mean Colin Powell or Alma Powell

--------------------------------------------------------

ALMA POWELL TALKS ABOUT DEPRESSION

http://books.google.com/books?id=jjkDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=alma+powell+mental+illness&source=bl&ots=jFNqtsINDP&sig=7tOuuzRJv9aPiPWJIW4sE2Hxk48&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SOOrUPbfB8ar0AGJy4D4AQ&sqi=2&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=alma%20powell%20mental%20illness&f=false

--------------------------------------------------------------

What do you have to say for yourself?

Any apologies due?

Do you think that maybe you should have READ what you were responding to?

What does your arrogance in the face of factual evidence say about your credibility from today forward?...

JoAnne, terrific post. I agree, President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton have had discussions about who her replacement should be; Obama would definitely ask her opinion about those he is considering. I posed the same thought earlier this morning on another FR article. To answer your question, to my knowledge no one in the media has asked, suggested or answered this.

The GOP/RNC Tea Beggers do not want to make 'straight' talking points on Benghazi. They are still using their "Tea Begger Tactics" of "Distract and Attack." On the evening of Janruary 20, 2009 the Tea Beggers took a "Blood Oath." To cause confusion with no supporting facts to make the President out to be incompetent, ineffective, and politically expendible. At the Caucus Steakhouse Restaurant in Washington D.C. The "Fourteen GOP Conspirators" all agreed to attack the President on all levels. The GOP/RNC "Crazy Conservative Clowns" do not care about what happened in Benghazi. The GOP Tea Beggers do not care what is going on in Gaza today. They do not care about honesty, and are trying to use Susan Rice as a "Political Scapegoat." Just recently "Nutty Newt" admitted that the agenda of thier "Conspiracy" was to destroy the American People at all costs. Progressive Think Tanks have read Draper's Book, and everything made sense perfectly. The political and economic goal of the Tea Beggers was made very clear, and the danger is very present.

Bloodlust.

I believe the latest talking point from the right on Benghazi is that Obama created the event, then covered it up, to win the election. Apparently, he was afraid the 'free stuff', Sandy, and rousing the urban rebels wasn't enough to eek out a win. Now, this most likely changed in the last 24 hours - I can only stomach visiting the FauxforDumbFux new site once a day.

RedDev - that's just sick but nothing we don't expect from the far right. So, President Obama had 4 of our own killed so he could be re-elected? How low does the Republican party sink?

RedDevPS

I believe the latest talking point from the right on Benghazi is that Obama created the event, then covered it up, to win the election.

don't forget that president Obama also orchestrated Petraeus' affair because he knew he could use it in the future for the Benghazi event.

Bayllie/Seeking, good points well worth mentioning - as this national crisis deepens into perhaps the biggest single crisis this nation has ever faced. We can't forget the boat loads of people in the Obama administration sacrificed under the proverbial bus. According to TalkHand, that includes Clinton, Rice, Holder, and a slew of other White House staffers.

Al,

I wish Republicans would get their talking points straight on Benghazi.

I thought is was Rice who had the talking points wrong.

SS,

So, President Obama had 4 of our own killed so he could be re-elected?

Source please.

theotas - I was repeating RedDev's comment that now the right is claiming President Obama created the Benghazi incident - which would mean he had 4 of ours killed. In no way do I believe a word of that - it just shows how low the right has sunk - according to RedDev's post!

RedDev -

I actually started getting tired of the "throwing (fill in the blank) under the proverbial bus" storyline as it relates to the President before he was even elected. I remember when he gave his big speech on race here in Philadelphia during the 2008 primary - as I read it, I was moved to tears. Then to anger and resolve as I heard two co-workers - one a Tea Party Republican, the other a Hillary supporter who then switched to McCain/Palin(!) - laughing about it and mocking him for throwing his own grandmother under that same bus. That was the night I first went to the local Obama campaign office and volunteered, and I guess I have that first "bus stop" to thank for that.

It's kind of the flip side of the coin that has Obama supposedly selfishly taking the sole credit for things like killing Osama bin Laden. "Heads I win, tails you lose" and all that.

In any case, I hope they can come up with a new talking point metaphor soon. Like so much of the GOP itself, the bus is getting really old and really tired.