Enjoy the week off FR gang!

If anyone deserves some time away to spend with family & friends it's our FT's authors! ;o)

We might not have always agreed on some things but your hard work & dedication didn't go unoticed.

Wishing everyone a happy & peaceful Thanksgiving!

We have much to be grateful for this year...

It could not be clearer that McCain-Graham want to damage U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice's career - as well as somehow implicate General Petraeus - under the umbrella of "Benghazi".

Why are they ignoring Former Head of CIA, General David Petraeus? - he testified that the CIA approved Ambassador Rice's declassified TV remarks about Benghazi. Twenty intelligence reports had indicated "that anger about the (anti-muslim) film may be to blame".

Consider that McCain, Graham and Ayotte skipped a high-level security closed-door hearing, in order to hold a press conference about NOT having access to information! Now they're demanding a Special Committee, so they can harang Ambassador Rice and re-hash her words. Senators Reid, Collins, and Lieberman have pooh-poohed McCain’s demands for a Select Committee, as there are several investigations underway. Even former GWB secretary of state Condoleeza Rice said:“It’s easy to try and jump to conclusions about what might have happened here. It’s probably better to let the relevant bodies do their work.”

McCain is STILL politicizing the deaths in Benghazi. Despite zero evidence of a cover-up, or any crime committed by the U.S. government, McCain has gone headfirst over the cliff with his claims about the incident. Will he join other GOP-ers (viz. Limbaugh) who are inventing stories about General Petraeus as well?

Graham fears GOP is in a "death spiral". And yet GrahamMcCain continue to write their political epitaphs, via these Benghazi conspiracy theories.

It's a beautiful Monday morning and everything is right with the world. Thank heaven we elected John McCain as President in 2008. Only a man of his stellar intellect could have seen the truth in Benghazi. No doubt, he leaned heavily on his Vice-President, Sarah Palin for guidance.

Gasoline prices are plunging thanks to our foresight in electing Mitt Romney this year as President. It appears Mexicans are also self-deporting in droves, and Sean Hannity is on board with this brilliant immigration policy. The budget will be balanced next week. We can hardly wait until only old white men can vote again and women learn their place. Best of all, the Russians are quaking in their boots and Iranians are giving up their plans to create atomic weapons. You just can't underestimate the resolve of a chest-thumping draft-dodger.

We're pretty pleased we managed to suppress some less-than-desirable voters. There's something very unsettling about knowing that a person with tinted skin is using the same voting booth as us righteous god-loving sorts.

Only eight more years and Vice-President Ryan will assume the mantel of leadership and finish the job of killing Medicare and Social Security for the welfare-addicted, non-working, gift-loving Democrat liberals.

I just can't help but wonder what kind of idiot would vote for that Kenyan, Muslim, Socialist, Marxist, business-hating Obama guy.

Yes, life is very good. I'm on pins and needles waiting for an explanation why my shrinking paycheck is a good thing.

Yes, life is very good. I'm on pins and needles waiting for an explanation why my shrinking paycheck is a good thing.

David, the car elevator business is booming.

*** Piling on Romney:

It's safe to say, Willard has gone back into the Mittless Protection Program...?

Good Morning, Dawn (I've always wanted to say that). Agreed. It is very frightening that the Israelis have called up 75,000 reservists.

On another note, isn't it interesting that among all the things said by all the Republican candidates for president over the past year, only one verifiable truth stands out, and it was spoken by Santorum: "We are never ever going to have the elite smart people on our side." There are RWNJs on this site who prove that every day.

NDD, that sentence says it all. Neither side wins, both sides lose; and the people of both suffer.

Backhouse, the trouble with McCain and Graham is they refuse to accept the truth in the name of personal revenge. As for the rest of the GOPer rants and outrage about Benghazi (repeat of their unfounded outrage over Fast and Furious), it is quite clear these yahoos get their talking points from FOX--the purveyors of conspiracy theories and Romney landslide polls. The truth is, it makes McCain and Graham, King and Rohrback and the rest of the hollering GOP minagerie (Romney in the debate) look stupid, clueless, and unable to grasp the truth as provided by General Petraeus. They are not concerned about the truth, about preventing a similar tragedy in the future. Their goal is smear the Obama administration, character assassination, and revenge--the truth, in their eyes, is irrelevant.

David W, well done.

First Read Hosts, enjoy your time, you certainly have earned it!

Elections Do Have Consequences:

The 2012 election was the most important election in my lifetime because the choice of voters was for America to remain a Democracy or become a Plutocracy. In some ways the wealthy already run the country, but the outcome of the election clearly places the running of our government in the hands of the people. It is important to reflect on the significance of what the voters had to say.

1.Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are not entitlements or gifts as Romney called them. They are benefits and working Americans have paid for these benefits through their payroll deduction taxes and Americans have no interest in allowing wealthy private corporations the opportunity of messing with those benefits.

2.Women spoke loud and clear and won big-time in this election. Economic and reproductive rights continue to be protected, plus with an Obama victory, Roe v. Wade will likely remain the law of the land for many years to come.

3.Latinos, Asian Americans, and African Americans were not suppressed at the ballot box by Republican governors who attempted to deny minorities a voice and a seat at the table. New immigration laws will be passed that will provide a path to citizenship to those without citizenship papers.

4.The future looks brighter for the unemployed. Government projects to improve our roads, bridges, a newer, stronger power grid, and clean energy to reduce global warming will create more jobs. Manufacturing products, including jobs to rebuild our infrastructure are on the horizon.

5.Student loans in the form of Pell Grants are available for those who can't afford a college education. Plus with tax incentives for companies who stay in this country, more opportunities will be available to our youth.

Seniors, women, minority groups, the unemployed, the youth, and military families won on November 6th. We all have a lot to be thankful for on this Thanksgiving.

My, my, what a difference a day or two makes. Republicans, the very people who were champion the likes of a Mitt Romney as President, suddenly think he's was not up to par.

This is what I mean about trusting the judgement of Republicans. First Bush twice then Romney. What were they thinking? Most of us KNEW Romney was out of touch with the vast majority of Americans.

Anyway, to the First Read staff and all the posters here at First Thoughts: A most Happy Thanksgiving to each and every one of you and your families. We all have much to be grateful for.

*** Happy Thanksgiving: A final note: This will be our last morning First Read of the week, although we will update the web site as news warrants. Have a safe and happy Thanksgiving. And we’ll be back next week.

__________________

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well and to all here on First Read.

Thanksgiving nite game: Pats v. Jets

President Obama's speech this morning was one for the ages. Please everybody, listen to it if you haven't already.

David : That was the darkest, most chilling humor I have ever read on this sight. Should I love it or hate it I do not know. We will have a happy Thanksgiving that non of it came true.

Stunning photos of President Obama and SOS Hillary Clinton on their trip abroad.

http://theobamadiary.com/

Correction to my post above -- should read championing instead of champion and he instead of he's.

Pat:

Happy Thanksgiving. And btw, your Patriots could have been a bit kinder to my Colts.

Just read an article of Romney's plans for America "when" he was elected. WOW, luckily we escaped a National disaster. His plan was based on his experience running Bain Capital. What a nightmare we'd be in for now.

THANK YOU PRESIDENT OBAMA FOR SAVING US FROM A FATE WOTH THAN DEATH.

Ron, your team looks to a bright future. They're having a nice season for themselves after last year.

Wow David, That was some scary thoughts that showed us how lucky we are that we rejected those clowns.

Jack! You and my buddy skip may always use Dawn, I love it. Happy Thanksgiving to you!

DISAGREEMENT OVER BENGHAZI ? LOL!! Petraeus told the truth that his report had references to AL QAEDA that somehow were magically "SCRUBBED" by this administration before Susan Rice then told her "refined talking points".

In other words, who gave the orders to change the narrative and why did they change the talking points ?

Why did this administration feel COMPELLED to lie to the American people ?? I guess this testimony under oath by Petraeus pretty much taskes the excuse "based on the best intelligence we had at the time" ..... and BLOWS IT ALL TO HELL AND BACK !!! People died, then Obama, Rice and Hillary lied.

The last few mornings we have seen photos from the Daily Rundown, with different hosts interviewing Mark Murray.

Mark works hard here on First Read, as does Domenico - when are they going to get a chance to sit in the host seat? They deserve it.

Elections Do Have Consequences:

So true Ron. Happy Thanksgiving!

No more Twinkees. No more Texas. Lieberman disagrees with McCain and Graham.

What is this world coming to?! LoL

Job 1: May you and your family have a Happy Thanksgiving as well.

Mr. President gets some domestic criticism for visiting a country with human rights violations.

I am sure human rights is important...but why can't we improve human rights here first.. why was Rodney King beaten savagely...why was a bartender in Chicago beaten savagely...where is Trevon Martin.

.

..and the president's visit will help move Myanmar in the right direction in terms of human rights, for sure.

Is it wrong that Im still getting so much pleasure listening to the likes of Rubio and Jindal slap down ol Mittens about his "Obama won because of the free gifts" BS?

Reading the NBC Politics article about Romney's Readiness Plan, makes this American even more grateful this Thanksgiving that the Vulture/Voucher guys lost.

While some republican governors, legislators, talking heads are making efforts to moderate their tone and sound reasonable, do not be deceived that their plans for this country remain the same as that of the Vulture/Voucher guys--they just plan to talk softer.

Lindsey Graham asserted yesterday that Ambassador Rice claimed that the Obama administration had "dismantled" Al Qaeda. Graham was lying. No administration official has ever claimed that Al Qaeda had been dismantled. To the contrary, the administration has made no secret about the threats posed by Al Qaeda affiliates in places like Yemen, Somalia, and Mali.

Graham told his lie because he and McCain desperately need to attribute some motive as to why Obama would cover up a terrorist attack. So now he's falsely claiming that Obama has been telling the American people that Al Qaeda has been destroyed and thus needed to cover up the truth before the election, even though anyone who reads newspapers during the past four years knows that terrorist organizations are still active around the world.

Graham went after Romney for insulting the American people. Graham should take his own advice and stop insulting the American people's intelligence by telling his stupid lies.

jim, they were "magically" scrubbed by our intelligence groups including the CIA because they didn't want to tip off the terrorists that we were on to them. General Petraeus backed up Ambassador Rice. Why aren't you asking why Darryl Issa and his team "outed" a CIA operation in Libya, placed Americans and Libyans who were helping in danger--all because of their zest to hunt witches? Get over it--there is no there, there.

Houston, terrific post; last sentence sums up the GOP.

Jim-1455434

DISAGREEMENT OVER BENGHAZI ? LOL!! Petraeus told the truth that his report had references to AL QAEDA that somehow were magically "SCRUBBED" by this administration before Susan Rice then told her "refined talking points".

The word "extremists" was substituted for the words "Al Qaeda affiliates" because the intelligence people did not want to get too specific at the time Rice made her statements because they were not absolutely certain about what had happened and because they thought getting too specific would reveal the sources of their intelligence. That seems reasonable enough. But why be reasonable when the Republicans can cook up a crackpot conspiracy theory that will be eagerly swallowed by Obama haters?

Good morning all...

Looks like I'm by myself in representing the conservative side of the political spectrum this morning. Hmmmm...better not say anything too controversial I suppose! ;-)

Seriously though, I wish everyone here and their families a great Thanksgiving holiday. :-)

Take care all!!

--Grimey

Jim,

If you were paying even a teeny bit of attention, you wouldn't have needed for Jody & Houston to explain it to you. How you missed it is beyond me. Either you are hearing impaired or you cannot read.

Or, like so many other RWNJs on this site, you simply ignore facts you don't want to be true.

Grimey:

The truth is you've a great deal of company from conservative viewpoints here. Those of us on the left with respect to social values have a great deal of respect for a conservative approach to spending and some other issues. So, on that score, you aren't alone.

The other folks who come here as self-identified conservatives are more accurately described as liars, totalitarians, and third-graders.

Jack -

you simply ignore facts you don't want to be true.

That is Jim (and most of the Republican party) in a nutshell.......

Pat, as always you alert us to the most incredible photos! Thank yu!

Jack - jim is always looking for the negative about President Obama. His life is based on his hate of our President.

I see David cant help himself and even though his candidate won, his attempts and providing us dolts his intellectual genius is just too much for him to keep in the bottle. David, if you just showed even a modicum of objectivity and didnt constantly ignore inconvienent truths maybe someone other than the Jen Ptaki gang would actually listen to you. I notice you ignored telling all of us that Obama received 8 million less votes than in 08, that he barely had a majority of the electorate behind him. You forget to mention that 65% of white, married women and seniors voted for Romney. You forget to mention that Obama won because those who receive the most government largesse voted for him and those who fund it voted for Romney. Thats a polarizing problem regardless of ideology. You forget to mention that the number of people in poverty just went up again, unemployment is going up, stock market going down and as Obamacare gets implemented fully, the costs associated with it are starting to get media play. Your boy won, congrats and as an American, I want what is best for all of us and will support Obama for the next 4 years and urge him to stop polarizing this country. Now that you dont need to campaign for him anymore, can you and your gang stop attacking others and explain what is going to be done to move this country forward?

Why is the President in Burma when he should be here leading the country out of the recession?! He needs to wake up and be a hands on negotiator and get his job done this term!

Kirk - you talk about polarizing the country yet you continue to spout your hate-filled drivel - with the only point to put people down.

First, many hardworking individuals who earn good money voted for the President - I dare say the INTELLIGENT hard workers - voted for him. Even the Republican leadership is saying comments like yours are ignorant and mean-spirited.

As much as I am not a fan of Lindsay Graham, he stated that the analysis that only those benefiting from government programs voted for Obama is totally wrong. As he acknowledged, the Republicans built a campaign based on putting those who are good people but have fallen on hard times down, and it's disgraceful.

But, go ahead and spout your ignorance and hatred. As we all know, it's all you have!

Crystal - if you knew anything, you would know he is there for a conference. Plus, our President doesn't stop working on issues just because he isn't at the White House. See, we have these communication tools like the telephone; internet; etc. Please, we're in the 21st Century! Try to keep up!

John McCain and Lindsay Graham are on a desperate search for relevance because they are coming up for re-election in 2 years. Not sure why Kelly Ayotte is willing to get involved with Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dumber.

Graham is in trouble with the ultra conservatives here in South Carolina because he is sometimes willing to make a *gasp* compromise. The Club for Growth has already announced that they are considering "Primarying" him.

Graham's BFF likely has similar problems.

Jack in Portsmouth

Jim,

If you were paying even a teeny bit of attention, you wouldn't have needed for Jody & Houston to explain it to you. How you missed it is beyond me. Either you are hearing impaired or you cannot read.

Yes. This First Read article succinctly stated the administration's explanation: “The White House and intelligence officials have said the terrorist assessment offered by Petraeus was both classified and still tenuous and that to reveal it at the time of [Susan] Rice’s interviews would have compromised their secret sources of information.”

But Jimbo only seems to have read the first line about "disagreement." This particular disagreement over Benghazi is getting more and more like the disagreement over whether the government is beaming mind-control messages into the brains of people who don't protect themselves by wearing tinfoil hats.

Or, like so many other RWNJs on this site, you simply ignore facts you don't want to be true.

Yes. And look how well that worked out for them when attacked Nate Silver for telling them facts they didn't want to hear.

MKM - McCain just looks like a bitter old man who still can't get over the fact he lost the Presidency! He is a sad reflection of the man he once was - or at least appeared to be!

Kirk,

Now that you dont need to campaign for him anymore, can you and your gang stop attacking others and explain what is going to be done to move this country forward?

Actually, it's up to you and your gang to stop attacking and to begin moving this country forward. David was simply talking about the bullet we dodged.

MKM,

Kelly Ayotte believes the hype that she's an up-and-coming "star" of the Republican Party, and so she thought that by hitching her wagon to McCain's Star she would soar into the stratosphere. Unfortunately for her, she miscalculated. Apparently she (or, more likely, her advisors) has realized this, which is why we don't see her standing next to McNasty anymore.

Houston,

This particular disagreement over Benghazi is getting more and more like the disagreement over whether the government is beaming mind-control messages into the brains of people

Well put.

Kirk -

You forget to mention that Obama won because those who receive the most government largesse voted for him and those who fund it voted for Romney.

That is factually inaccurate and simply a repeat of disproven Republican talking points. A large portion of government assistance such as unemployment and welfare goes to Red States which supported Romney. In fact, I think a recent study showed that over 70% of government assistance goes to those areas of the country that supported Romney.

Pres. Obama won the majority of votes from those who have graduate degrees or higher, and had strong support in almost all income categories.

I want what is best for all of us and will support Obama for the next 4 years and urge him to stop polarizing this country

Again, not an accurate assessment. It was Mitt Romney and the Republicans who split the country into "makers" and "takers", capped off by the infamous "47%" speech. President Obama spoke repeatedly about not blaming others, and had support from a very diverse group of Americans.

How can you quote statistics that show Romney won only the white, married women and senior vote then claim Obama was the divisive candidate?

Kirk -- You wrote:

You forget to mention that Obama won because those who receive the most government largesse voted for him and those who fund it voted for Romney.

Repeating the Romney meme about "gifts" is about as polarizing as you can get. Most Republicans are running from it so that's odd you are sticking to it. It's false Kirk, just like most of what the right is peddling these days. That's an inconvenient truth you are ignoring. You are contributing to the dumbing down of America by holding on to such garbage. No one I know has received any gifts and they don't have their hand out either. Business does though. They always have their hand out for government largess.

Seeking Sanity--getting a lecture from you as the queen of mean spirited posts on this site is laughable. So far I havent attacked anyone except calling for David to stop the condescension and enter a discussion. Calling out facts is not mean spirited. This was the most polarized election probably ever along racial and economic lines based on the voting statistics. So tell me Jack and Seeking Sanity, do both of you just totally ignore that the incarceration rates are higher for African Americans than whites? If someone provides you that as the starting point in terms of facts do you call them racist? If you dont start with the facts how do you address the problems that got us there in the first place. Its not racist to point the facts out.

Same here, you cant ignore the truth that the election statistics show that Obama barely won and won with 70% of the Latino vote, 95% of the African American vote, 65% of the young person and single female vote and 65% of the people who make less than $30,000 a year and receive the vast majority of government assistance. Of course that means that many hardworking taxpaying people voted for Obama but the statistics show we have a huge polarized electorate. Of course the GOP is running from Romney's comments because its not good politics and they know they need to do something to get a portion of that vote back (unfortunately even if it means buying their votes too).

I am not at all attacking anyone. I am asking the gang here what is Obama going to do stop the class warfare and put us on the road to fiscal health. Certainly, the increase in the poverty rates, unemployment rates and anti business rhetoric via higher taxes or fees etc isnt going to do that. Raising taxes on Buffett is not going to raise much revenue ($100 billion a year and much of that coming from working professionals making over $250k which hurt some jobs) and Obamacar is obviously going to kill more jobs. So what plans does he have to bring us back to health now that he is elected. Is he going to finally address entitlement reform? Is he finally going to realize that we cant but on this government assistance path or is he going to gut defense?

Got a question for you, Kirk.

Yesterday during the Pats game I kept switching over to Moyers' show during the commercial break. Naomi Klein was on, talking about her book "The Shock Doctrine". I was mesmerized by her intelligence, her logic; her analysis of the way so-called "luminaries" on the Right have taken advantage of disasters to extend the reach of capitalism to gobble up public lands, resources, water and air--and in so doing have created even worse disasters.

And I thought: Who is the intellectual female equivalent on the Right? Sarah Palin? Michelle Bachmann?

Who do you have, Kirk? Name one woman on the Right who can analyze the problems we face as a country in the context of the global environment. Name just one.

You guys are comparing apples and oranges and I am not stating that Obama caused the polarization (but I do believe he is the largest contributor and by the way I think he knows that and does it on purpose as its good politics for him). Comparing what states receive the most in government largess is much different than individual voting patterns and you know it. Again, I am not including entitlements like social security and medicare and not government grants intended to help states such and infrastructure, stimulus etc. I am talking about items that benefit someone personally that impacts their voting patterns. Come on guys this isnt rocket science and its pretty clear which side the bread is buttered for each candidate. Of course the GOP is running from saying the truth because it doesnt get votes. It goes back to my statements regarding race. Do you ever hear candidates say that black achievement in school is lower than whites? No because the left and progressives would start crying racism but you have to admit that as a fact before you can address the causes that got us where we are at today. Segregation, racism, poor schools, single parenthood and poor personal choices may be the leading causes of the education gap but to deny its there means you cant address the problems. To deny we dont have a polarized electorate based on economic achievement, status, income and the perception of the role of government means we are doomed for 4 more years just like the last which I dont think even you guys want.

Kirk-2957282

I notice you ignored telling all of us that Obama received 8 million less votes than in 08, that he barely had a majority of the electorate behind him.

I notice you ignore the fact that Obama won by a 3.0% margin, while G. W. Bush won with only a 2.4% margin in 2004. Obama also got more votes than Bush did in 2004. All the pundits claimed that Bush had a "mandate" back in 2004. Is there a different standard for what margin is required to have a mandate for black presidents?

Kirk like so many detractors want to overstate the obvious . The problem with your theory or your query is this the things you mention are a product of what happens whenj an economy goes in the tank in the us and most likely throughout the world. Politicizing these events do not solve the problem nor does it seek solutions. Blame was easily spread around during this election however just finding blame does little to answer your first question. Class warfare has occurred and will continue until incomes become less desparate between the haves and the have nots. In our capitalistic system therre will always be haves and have nots Our worth as a country is judged on what we do with the have nots to elevate them and support them going through tough times. Obama has always kept that in mind.

The only person promoting class warfare is you. Re-read your post. Now you'r harping on blacks in prison which of course has nothing whatsoever to do with the election.

You really need to look in the mirror and see the very small man you've become. Try putting those of us down who work for a living and you just look stupid.

Try putting those down who are looking for jobs and trying to support their families and you just look like the hate-filled person you clearly are.

The people dividing this country are the Republicans. But, you don't like the truth - you can't handle that!

Kirk -

You call the fact that President Obama won convincingly every demographic group except for whites, married women and seniors a 'polarizing' election? It sounds to me like he has support across a broad spectrum of America and a diverse group of voters.

The GOP may be running from Romney's comments only because they "are not good politics", but the comments are also simplistic and untrue. Did you vote for Romney only because he would lower your taxes? Denigration of those who voted for President Obama and a failure to understand their beliefs will lead to continued defeat in national elections for Republicans.

There is no class warfare involved in resetting tax rates on the wealthy back to the Clinton era, or pushing for real corporate tax reform. It is not "obvious" that Obamacare will kill jobs, it is only your opinion.

You are simply repeating Republican talking points that failed to win the election. Face the facts: President Obama does have a plan, his policies are inclusive, and there is no 'anti-business' rhetoric.

fixing entitlements ?? more people going back to work and contributing to their own entitlements through social security taxes will help relieve this problem. Unfortunately when we talk about entitlement reform it will first do little towared our debt (this makes logical sense considering the vast majority of Americans do not tap into entitlements but pay into the fund and second, could be rectified if more people begin to contribute to the fund. This is occuring with the ACA where all americans will now have to pay.

Jack, are you asking me for people you would agree with? For every Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman (neither of them do I like or support), you guys have a Nancy Pelosi or Boxer or Wasserman. The problem with politics is that both parties are full of ideologues of one type or another. I am not a fan of Ann Coulter but she clearly is a successful person on the right with very deep intellectual views (I just dont happen to agree with many). Condaleeza Rice is another. I dont know who Naomi Klein is but based on your description she could be someone that I would totally disagree with just like you would many if not all on the right. The problem with politics these days is that the GOP is identified (many times accurately but not as a rule) with far right social issues. The problem with the left is that they are identified with far left economic issues and there is no party that represents the middle. Lets face it almost 50% of electorate wanted Obama to lose over 60 million voters. Obama won by 3 million votes in a country with 300 million people. That should mean both parties need to move to the middle and stop pandering to all the special interests including politics of class warfare, gender warfare and do whats best for the country. Get out of people's bedrooms and pocket books.

I agree with TNS, yoiur post lists several groups that voted for Obama and only one group that did not. It seems to me the election did exactly what it was supposed to do elect a person the majority iof Americans want for President. It would have been a stronger argument if the opposite occurred and Romney was elected ti would have shown millionare contributors can conntrol the election and appoint anyone they see fit leaving the rest of us holding the bag.

What you could do Kirk, instead of attacking those Obama supporters for being "takers" and ignoring the corporate world who are the takers of real money is contact your congressmen and tell them to cooperate with the president and to pledge allegiance to flag instead of Grover Norquist the head of the takers. The fact remains that the republican party has lost touch with the people and instead aligned itself with the real takers which is the bankers and other Wall Streeters who jeopardize this nations well being simply out of greed. Simply put the people have spoken and won, and the Rich who backed Romney and tried to buy our election through Citizens United have lost.

Kirk lotsanumbers:

There were a lot of points I didn't include in my post. For starters, I didn't point out that you are a blithering idiot. I didn't point out that you are the poster boy for projection.

President Obama is not divisive. It is the electorate that provides you the fodder that leads you to conclude there is division. You cannot show a single example where President Obama divided the country. Not one. The class warfare BS has been repeated ad nauseum by you and your crew mates on the Republican ship of fools. The same crew mates who go on about the messiah, who go on about Benghazigate, who get their marching orders and talking points from the dimwits at Fox.

A majority is a majority is a majority. Democrats held the Presidency, increased the majority in the Senate, and carved into the House majority. Indeed the popular vote for Congressional races went to Democrats. Don't give us that crap about bare majorities, particularly after McConnell has misused minority power to prevent any progress. On that score, perhaps you've forgotten how a small group of Republican Representatives in the MINORITY party met on the President's first inauguration day to plot his destruction.

Don't tell me what I forgot. If you're concerned about those who received handouts relative to who voted for the President, check the damned map. The red states are the welfare states. They went for Romney.

Unemployment is NOT going up. Look Mr. Numbers Expert, the economy has added jobs for almost three consecutive years. Your problem is that it's not fast enough for you. You are unable to grasp the fact that jobs are being off-shored, that mechanization and robotics have had a profound impact on demand for labor, and that our consumption economy is damned near saturated.

Moving forward means education, and it's something you desperately need.

Crystal:

The President is on this trip, in part to explain why egocentric, jingoistic Americans can't understand that the good people of Myanmar have chosen that name for their country. Burma is gone. Get it Ms. British Colonialist?

Smoke and mirrors is all anyone should expect from Washington. There is absolutely no concern from anyone in Washington over the damage the debt and deficit is doing to this nation. Obama certainly has no plans to address it, nothing serious anyway. Obama talks about cutting 4 trillion over the next 10 years like it is something to cheer about. Yet he will still leave office with our national debt well over 20 trillion. The middle class, or what is left of it is going to be wiped out by massive inflation and hyper inflation sooner rather then later.

No Democrat controlled Congress has balanced the federal budget in over 40 years. It was a Republican controlled Congress that balanced the budget for part of Clinton's term. No Republican president has signed a balanced budget in over 50 years. So neither side of the isle has any track record for ever solving fiscal problems, but they both do a fine job creating them. One thing is for sure, we cannot tax, borrow, and spend our way out of this mess and that is all that is coming from the Obama administration. We need term limits for Congress, a balanced budget amendment, and complete tax reform or expect this situation is going to get much worse.

Kirk I am sorry , my political sensibilities will not allow me to use Anne Coulter and intellegence in the same sentence(lol). I applaude your taste with regads to Michelle Bachman and Sarah Palin. The left or at least the majoiry of Americans who support Obama, support tax breaks for the MC, government help to assist with starting small business when no loans can be obtained, cutting the defecit , Obama offerred a 1.3 trillion dollar defecit reduction package and the Republicans shoved it back in his face, so it is hard for me to agree that we have unsound economic views .

Kirk,

Here it is again: Name one woman on the Right who can analyze the problems we face as a country in the context of the global environment.

And you come up with Ann Coulter, who has "very deep intellectual views"?!?!? OMG! And Condi Rice?

My question has absolutely nothing to do with whether you or I agree or disagree with the person's views, and everything to do with that person's ability to provide a cogent argument about a problem this country faces in a larger context. Ann Coulter is a narrow-minded bigot--it's not simply that I disagree with her, but she adds nothing to the conversation. Condi Rice is so blinded by ideology she can't get out of her own way. Neither of them are playing AA ball.

David - WOW! Love the post! You said so well what many of us have been saying over and over!

And, let's not forget that many newly elected Republicans have said "no" to Grover Norquist and refused to sign a pledge to him. Others that signed pledges in the past have said "forget about it," to Grover.

Joe - you cannot say Ann Coulter and intelligence in the same breath. It just doesn't compute. She is so disgusting that any intelligence she MIGHT possess is overshadowed by her crudeness and classlessness!

Seeking Sanity--again your baseless attacks do no good to solve any issues and as always you can never contribute to the actual substance of the discussion.

Tn--you identified the issue so why is it so hard to address. Obama did get votes from all groups but thats not the polarization we are talking about. We are talking economics and race. When any candidate gets votes with these statistics, how can you say its not polarizing? I didnt vote for tax cut as there never would have been and you know it. I voted for a stronger economy and I have no idea if Romney would have achieved it but we do know from history that Obama didnt and hasnt it any of the states his policies have been in place for decades. It is as simple as that or I would have voted democratic as I did in 2004 and didnt want Bush to win. Obamacare is already killing jobs and it will continue to do so. You read about it everyday in the papers but its simple math.

Joe--its simple economics that you dont seem to understand. Yes, of course increasing employment will create more revenue but Obama's economic policies are not incented to do that. In addition, entitlements are not self funding and there is not Al Gore lockbox with funds sitting for future payouts. My guess is you are one of those people who didnt want personal accounts which would have ensured that the money was there. Entitlement reform is unfortunately a neccesity and dont forget our seniors control 85% of the aggregate wealth in this country so its not like you are hurting the poor. ACA wont be self funding either as more people will be dropped from employer coverage than estimated (already happening) so this will cause additional strains on government revenue. The one thing we do agree on is that we do have an income inequality issue but tax policy isnt causing it nor will it cure it as the primary causes are the education gap, legal and illegal immigration which lowers wages and government assistance. We need to address the causes not attack those who are successful as the cure.

Kirk - it's clear you lack reading comprehension skills. I have contributed to an intelligent discussion much more than you ever do. But please, continue with your putdowns. It's all you've got.

Try re-reading your post where you put everyone down - because we are all to intelligent to agree with your nonsense. You appear to be the person continuing to put others down just because they don't agree with the drivel you post!

David & Seeking,

Good points about Grover.

Here's the thing: Can you imagine 95% of Democrats signing a pledge created by a lobbyist? Even 50%? Do I hear 25%? 10%?

Would 95% of Democrats sign a pledge if it were created by a president or other leader of their own party?

The answer is no, and therein lies the fundamental difference between Republicans and Democrats. The Democrats are a big messy group with all kinds of opinions on all topics, and it's difficult to get them to all come to the table to agree on anything.

Not so the Republicans. They march in lock-step, looking neither left or right, eyes glued to the front. When it comes to views that don't agree with theirs, they are very much like those 3 famous monkeys, who neither near nor see nor speak anything but the party doctrine.

And that to me is why they are so scary.

Some more stunning photos. These two need to get a room. Oh Michelle.

http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2012/11/19/awkward-photos-of-the-day-overly-affectionate-obama-terrorizes-burma/

Try re-reading your post where you put everyone down - because we are all to intelligent to agree with your nonsense

Anyone else notice the change in tenor since Kirk the Jerk showed up to piss on the party with his delusional nonsense?

Why ya'll keep feeding this idiot is beyond me...

*shakes head*

More food for thought and interesting reads. No conspiracy theories or sour grapes 'cause I hope the Republicans stand down and not give the left any one to blame but themselves.

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/fobbs/121116

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/duke/121116

Feisty:

Mea culpa.

I have him on ignore, but the new software here doesn't always honor my "ignore" request. No mas, girl. I swear. Fact is, you just can't fix stupid.

You guys prove my point over and over. Look at David, he prefers to attack me personally than actually address anything of substance. You attacking Ann Coulter (again someone I dont agree with) just because you dont like her politics means you have no credibility in the question. You say Condi is blinded but again you asked for a woman and then you attack her ideology because you disagree with it. You are not willing to actually have a discussion if you cant admit that these people represent real views and points of view that must be included or there is no debate. I am not attacking you Jack for your views am I? How do we have compromise and reach solutions in a democracy without admitting that there are opposing opinions and give them a seat at the table. Sorry, but in my world you have a seat and in your world, I am excluded. Thats not compromise and since at the moment my seat includes 49% and 60 million people it seems like nothing will get done until you allow or admit that.

John in Battle Creek--give me a break. 60 million people voted for Romney trust me very few of them are millionaires and give voters more credit. No one is voting because some Koch brother is pulling the levers in the sky. People voted for Obama because of what ever issue made them more comfortable with him and same for Romney not because of a Supreme Court case.

David--I gave you plenty of issues that both Obama and Romney divided the country. Want more? Entitlement reform. What about health care? What about tax policy? What about his economic policies? Obama claimed to be the protectors of the poor, middle class and women when those demographic groups performed worse than their counterparts over the last 4 years? Red states have nothing to do with individual assistance and you used that talking point again. Get some new material. Where did I state that the GOP isnt complicit in this polarization? In previous posts, they are just as bad on social issues and I stated that. But again I appreciate your kind words and ability to provide real critical thinking in between your personal attacks. Your right jobs are being offshored and what was Obama's solution? A tax proposal that would kill more jobs by making it global US companies less able to compete overseas. Instead of always trying to show the people who already think you are this intellectual genius, why not try and prove it those of us who know better.

Seeking Sanity--I get a laugh everytime at your inability to actually join in.

Kirk - you're truly one of the least intellectual people on here but you try to pretend otherwise.

Condi Rice destoryed any chance she has for election to any post because she chose to ignore the CIA warnings about an attack on the US using our own planes. Said they didn't want to cause panic.

She also was part of the Iraq misinformation - again knowing she was putting out information that had been disproved by the CIA - the metal tubes COULD NOT be used to deliver WMD.

I don't care what you think of me. You're an insignificant little gnat!

Feisty - you're right! Should not feed the trolls!

Kirk, you forget to mention what relevance your "fun with numbers" exercise has. Close election? Not hardly! Close elections aren't a done deal by 11:15 PM EST. Which everyone but the Romney campaign, Karl Rove and (apparently) YOU could see. Close election, my @$$!!

No mas, girl. I swear

No harm... no foul David!

I have to admit, I DO enjoy you & the rest taking him apart limb by limb! ;o)

Except that, continuing to "engage" him, gives more power than he is worthy of...

Not to mention he drags the conversation down to a level we are all above!

Fact is, you just can't fix stupid.

No kidding, as Kirk demonstrates daily! lol

Jen--so you just want to on a blog in which everyone agrees with your views? Is that real world? I am glad you want to ignore 60 million voters. What delusional nonsense? Did I provide any voting statistics that were wrong? David, is it such a sad existence that you need to ignore someone you disagree with? And then feel the need to personally attack? No Seeking Sanity--if you read my post I didnt expect anyone to agree with me and actually asked what would be the solutions but you couldnt come up with any and can you provide me with one of those posts in which you provided some critical thinking? Just one?

Jack--I agree with much of your last post. It is a huge mistake on the GOP party platform to sign pledges with Norquist or anyone for that matter. I do find the GOP voting consistently with certain positions to be a problem but dont forget that is a similar problem the democrats have with their union contributors. It is creating real problems with education reform in bankrupt states like California and Illinois with government unions. They need to be able to vote what is best for the country not what is best for their campaign contributors.

You attacking Ann Coulter (again someone I dont agree with) just because you dont like her politics means you have no credibility in the question. You say Condi is blinded but again you asked for a woman and then you attack her ideology because you disagree with it.

You know, Kirk, I actually feel sorry for you, not because formidable forces are arrayed against you today, but because what David said about you is true (you are truly a "blithering idiot" and stupid cannot be "fixed"), and so is Seeking's comment ("you're truly one of the least intellectual people on here"). You have a singular inability (well, that's not really true--there are numerous others for whom this would apply) to discriminate shades along the ROY G BIV spectrum. You perceive no difference between Naomi Klein's and Ann Coulture's intellect. They are one and the same to you.

The problem Jen is that David has never taken me apart and still cant debate at a level that he thinks he has. Just like you when you get flustered by facts that are inconvienent for your narrative, its the same party line--lets call him stupid. Yeah that works. Why dont you try to provide me with some substance rather than just posting attacks and more polarization? Your guy won so lets debate and discuss and not try and shut people out.

Seeking Sanity--you always try and drag me into your world of dehumanization and low information crap. Not going to happen. Again, I have asked you probably over a hundred times to provide substance even trying to limit it to one simple issue without ever a response. If you are so intelligent and I am just a retard, show me. Give me your reasons why Obama's proposal on tax penalities for US companies that compete overseas will work? I am giving you a simple question and you certainly can outshine me with your brilliance right? Here is your chance to let it shine.

Houston

You mix words just like scum bag Bill Clinton, you say Lindsey Graham lied by saying Susan Rice stated that Al Queda has been "dismantled". What she actually said was with President Obama's leadership "we have decimated Al Queda". I'd say he didn't lie, he just used a slightly different word.

Get over the fact that she was sent out to lie for the administration, plain and simple. Just like Scum bag Bill sent Hillary out to lie to the American people about his actions. It's OK for a liberal but not a conservative, right?

KIRK - You won't get anywhere with these clowns. You either agree with them or you're an idiot.

I have contributed to an intelligent discussion much more than you ever do

LAUGH OF THE DAY.. according to who? calling someone ignorant or stupid contributes to intelligence? What effing world do you live in? Thats right, liberal dystopia.

Sorry Kirk, but with the amount of arrogance and smug demeanor from those that you seek to discuss, its like talking to a wall. It's their way or the highway, 'join us or die' disposition. I suspect they have no idea what compromise is and their definition will vastly differ from Websters and mine.

you say Lindsey Graham lied by saying Susan Rice stated that Al Queda has been "dismantled". What she actually said was with President Obama's leadership "we have decimated Al Queda". I'd say he didn't lie, he just used a slightly different word.

And I'd say that you obviously don't know the difference between the two words.

It's just as I said about Kirk above in #1.72--he doesn't have the ability to discriminate; it's all the same to him. And so it is with you.

Jack, first I dont think there are formidable forces against me. I dont count an anonymous blog that is filled with Obama campaign people and his supporters to be a formidable force. Especially since the only thing you guys seem to be able to do is use personal attacks on IQ as your main argument rather than debating the substance.

First, I told you I dont know who Naomi Klein is but reading her profile would show me that her educational pedigree and certainly her background would prove that at best she is not likely to be the intellectual equivalent to Ann Coulter. Coulter certainly appears to be far more published and a constitutional lawyer, professor and writer. I dont agree with her far right social views but that doesnt make her less intelligent. People who disagree over political policy are not different based on IQ. Are you trying to tell me that if someone was prolife they must be stupid? Someone who disagrees with you on the economic impact of ACA is stupid? I noticed you used my posts to pick out Ann coulter but you ignored Condi and then you ignored the comments regarding my questions of having a seat at the table and compromise. Why?

Jack, what makes you feel you have the ability to tell the difference better than me? Because we dont share the same opinion on every issue? What makes you, Seeking Sanity, Jen and David feel they have the right to call me an idiot and not intelligent because I dont share every single opinion as they do regarding Obama? Is your measure of intelligence based on voting support for Obama? Although anonymous, I am very confident to be able to state that my actual IQ is likely to much higher than any of those people. I attended a very well known private university that would speak for itself in terms of IQ, law school and have been working for 30 years with varied private and corporate jobs. I am not worried about my intelligence but I am worried about the state of politics, the economy and the role of government. The fact that I post those concerns that you dont share doesnt mean I am less intelligent than you and when on an anonymous blog you guys cant muster the ability to discuss these issues civilly, you guys just prove my point. Do I attack you for being a socialist? Do I ever question your intelligence because you dont agree with me? What benefit is this blog if you guys just sit around sharing hugs and ignoring the fact that half the people around you dont agree with you?

Trolls in a Hole or...How Low Can They Go?

As I have mentioned previously, the party of the hobbling pachyderm has much work to do to move

through the five stages of grieving. Well, they're off and limping into the first stage, denial. How is this

so? At the Republican Governor's Association meeting in Las Vegas (no comps. from Sheldon!), the

erstwhile denizens of the Banner of Red declared that their message wasn't faulty, they were just

out organized by that slick Kenyan, Musselman, Chicago pol, homey Obama. They evinced that the

Grand Old Pablum of recidivist exclusion, reactionary extremism and retrograde economics just needed

to be shouted from a higher rooftop, and certainly the new demographic reality is just a passing

zephyr of no moment, not a hurricane of historic reality about to scour their political artifice unto it's

foundation. As is wont to happen in that city, they doubled down (nice, huh, never overused in

context, amiright?) on everything that killed them in the general election. Obamacare?; not setting

up a gol-darned health exchange in my state, even though the Federal government will do that

anyway. Witch hunting; well, that greasy Eric Holder got away but we can try and get that Susan

Rice and send her off to Van Jones land. Even more incredible, the histrionics of John McCain,

bitching at a news conference that he didn't get any Benghazi info, while at the same time,

the Senate is having a classified briefing on Benghazi. When challenged by a journalist on that

fact, McCain asserts as a Senator he has a right to look as stupidly ridiculous as is possible

without running for President a second time. (Hey, John, old sport, call Sarah, she might have

some of that Midol of which you're in such desperate need.) And, of course, there is the Rombot

concept of "gifting" the election so everyone would go honey bunches of oats, head over heels

for the President. (Please, please fellow Dems, don't tell them about the vote once, get two votes

in 2016. That would just break their poor little blessed hearts.) And the really lowest of scum

scooping, feces flinging moves, labeling the President as "Santa Claus". Taking a universally

beloved character of holiday mythos and donkey punching him face down into the disgusting,

primordial, septic goo known as Republican politics. Children, still cloaked in the angelic innocence

of untrammeled imagination, who have wandered haplessly into earshot or glimpse of their

red state parents hateful media now have to ask,"Mommy, Daddy, why does Tush Lardball

and Yawn Inanity say Santa is a black, Kenyan, Muslim, pimpy pimp pimp, welfare enabling

America destroyer? He didn't look like that at the holiday pageant this year. I didn't even

use my black crayon in my coloring book. Why are they such mean poopy heads?" How can

such a query of untainted trust be answered? Such chaste probity destroyed to soon.

How low can they go?

Wishing unto my friends and extending to those of enmity, the blessings of a bountiful

Thanksgiving holiday. May all of us have a reason to be thankful (November 6 yo! :)) and

enjoy this time with family and friends in, let's face it, a pretty darn good country.

Although anonymous, I am very confident to be able to state that my actual IQ is likely to much higher than any of those people.

"Although anonymous"!

What a SCREAM! I just about fell down laughing and peed my pants at what followed in that sentence. Went to all the best schools, did ya?

Oh, Kirk, you're too much. You really are.

I'm done with you for the day. RIP.

Jack - it doesn't matter that all of us - at one time or another has made arguments that easily surpass anything Kirk has written - he's clearly more intelligent than the rest of us! I had to wipe my monitor after reading that one!

You're right - he's not worth the effort.

Jack, have a wondrful Thanksgiving and a terrific week!

Seeking,

You, too. At least we'll ending on a humorous note!

Jack, why dont you send me an email and I can prove it. Same thing Seeking Sanity. Put up or shut up. Again neither of you even tried to respond substantively. Seeking Sanity, remember I asked you a simple question? Show me your brilliance.

BIIAAATTTTCCCCCHHHHHH ALERT !

So Kirk makes some posts, and the extreme lefties go on the attack ! Nothing new !! God forbid that he should stir up their little Monday morning "circle jerk" with some well-stated opinions !

Oh, and the BS to cover up Susan Rice still ... DOES NOT COMPUTE !!!! If there were a need to pretend to AL QAEDA that we were not "on to them", then why the need to tell a lie ? The answer is clear ... Obama did not want to end the false narrative that "AL QAEDA WAS ON THE RUN".

The Democratic administration could have simply said we are investigating ... you know, the same bowl of crap they are trying to feed us now ! Sorry libs, your convenient excuse is no "whiteout" for the coverup !

Kirkand Jim,

It finally is clear with whom you think your president has caused "division" - those who voted for Romney! Looking at the demographics of those who voted for your president appear to me to be quite inclusive in terms of gender, race, socio-economic, football fans, you name it. 90% of people from around the world preferred your president over Mr. Romney, and that sounds pretty inclusive. Maybe why all this seems so bewildering to you is that you are now in the minority, and it's so hard for your ego to accept.

Oh, and Jim, a response is different from an attack.

Jack, why dont you send me an email

Oh, no. You ain't gettin' my email! Next thing you'll be knocking on my door. Nope, this is close enough. . . .

There's a famous Gary Larson cartoon where a kid is leaning with all his might against a big wooden door, trying to push it open. Above the door is a sign reading "School for the Gifted". On the door itself is a sign that reads "Pull". Is that the school you went to?

well Kirk, Seeking has a masters degree from a prestigious college and serves on two boards. She tells us daily she's the smartest EVAH! Jack and DW are another pair of legends in their own minds.

For those having a hard time understanding the poor in our nation PBS has a special on Frontline this week that takes a look at America's poor children. An important reminder for everyone. We have to change the dynamics and get involved.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/poor-kids/

Caesar--Seeking works in a mortage brokerage office basically acting as a paralegal type. I assume she could have a degree from Roosevelt or Robert Morris here in Chicago which are both schools for administrative assistants, paralegals and clerks. As you can tell from her posts, she has never ever substantivelly responded to any issue. She is the designated Obama campaign volunteer that is assigned the task of replying to intelligent posts by telling that person they are an idiot. I have repeatedly challenged her for months to try and provide a reasoned argument for several Obama positions which she has refused to do or acknowledge. Now you see Jack ignore my comments regarding his view of intelligence and you did notice that not one single person tried to even debate reasonably on the role of government, the polarization of the voting statistics or any other issue. Instead its attack Kirk for even daring to state the facts. You would think that since their man was elected they could stop the personal attacks and actually now tell us what great things he will do to heal the nation now. How many times have the same people screamed and yelled at the House of Republicans and tell us over and over how there is no compromise with the GOP. Explain to me how Jack, david, Jen and Seeking Sanity are ever going to have compromise when they wont even acknowledge that others might have differing opinions and they dont feel that such people deserve a voice or seat at the table. Arent progressives supposed to be the people of tolerance? Did I just witness any tolerance and in fact they choose to use the Ignore button. Such mature children. Then Jack wants to try and make fun of my pedigree and education and offer up to him my personal info and he runs like a scared child.

Dont Carry it All--Dont you think just like my previous posts on how the polarization the voting electorate in the last election, we need to understand how we got there and what caused it rather than pointing fingers and trying to fix the problem via tax policy? I always find these reports incredibly sad because in most cases the children are the unfortunate victims. First, we know the education gap is the biggest cause of poverty but we also know that single parenthood (breakdown of the family unit), immigration driving down wages, generational welfare that eliminates the requirements of self reliance and personal accountability and bad personal choices like substance abuse cause virtually all the poverty. Not the idea that rich wall street bankers are stealing from the middle class crap that gets spewed on here. Did any of Obama's economic policies of the last 4 years help poverty? I understand that he inherited a bad situation but did any of his policies help these groups get out of poverty? Or did he just keep them there by providing 3 years of unemployment comp, increase welfare, food stamps, EIC and every other assistance program? I am trying to understand why everyone thinks Obama is the President that helps these groups.

Kirk,

Typically we encourage people to get back on their meds.

But for you we'd recommend letting up on them a bit.

JH-479998

You mix words just like scum bag Bill Clinton, you say Lindsey Graham lied by saying Susan Rice stated that Al Queda has been "dismantled". What she actually said was with President Obama's leadership "we have decimated Al Queda".

Look up the meaning of the word "decimated," moron. Originally, it was the Roman punishment for mutinous military units in which every tenth soldier was executed. It does NOT mean "dismantled." It means to "destroy a considerable part of," which is precisely what the Obama administration has done to Al Qaeda.

Lindsey Graham lied about what Ambassador Rice said because he needed to come up with a fake motive for a nonexistent coverup.

I have to disagree yet again with MSNBC's reporting on the Benghazi issue. If you were only to read these reports, you might think that the reason references to al Qaeda were deleted from public talking points was to 'protect sources'. But this is not the only reason Petraeus gave for that, nor is it the most important. According to the Associated Press, Petraeus said more than once in that closed-door interview that we knew exactly who was behind it very early on, including the names of the leaders of that group. The reason he gave for 'scrubbing' the details of who was behind it, was to keep from tipping them off that we know who they are. This information was classified because there was an ongoing military operation to track them down and kill them. The last thing we needed to do is broadcast to the world that we knew exactly who was behind it, sending them into deep cover.

The idea that somehow, had the Obama guys revealed that al Qaeda was behind it, it would have hurt them politically, is really just an example of believing your own story. Nobody in their right mind would think that al Qaeda, even with so many of their top command guys dead, would be incapable of carrying off an attack against our guys in the middle East. Nor could anybody find any statement, or even implication, by the Obama administration that this is so. Nobody ever said that our enemy was vanquished, utterly incapable of continuing to fight. To do so would essentially be to declare victory and an end of the fight against terror in the middle East.

I'd challenge McCain to find a single Obama voter who would have changed their vote had Susan Rice 'told the truth' by divulging classified information regarding an ongoing military operation. The idea is ludicrous.

Al Qaeda is not decimated in any form. DO NOT underestimate an ideology. Al Qaeda has no banner, no geopolitical border, they have an intangible ideology. I wish it were true.

Kirk I agree with you. calling someone an (blithering) idiot in an attempt to discredit their view is hardly intelligent, neither is standing on your soap box pontificating about how your views are superior while being condescending. Propping oneself up in some self made Ivory tower does not make one superior and neither is the circular logic i see on display from the hard lefties of FR.

I do not know what makes anyone 'superior', and I think it is a waste of time to argue about it. The game we are playing here is 'truth and consequences', but it looks like only one side is playing. I continue to see the right wing arguing a reality that only exists in their echo chamber. Exhibit One is the idea that had Rice divulged that al Qaeda was behind the Benghazi attack, that would have somehow hurt Obama's chances at reelection. Exhibit Two is that idea that not divulging classified information about an ongoing military operation is somehow 'lying' or 'misdirecting' the American public.

Caesar Augustus-

Al Qaeda is not decimated in any form.

Al Qaeda has in fact been decimated, both in the modern sense of "destroyed in large part" and probably in the literal sense of the Latin word of destroying one in ten. What has not been done to "dismantle" Al Qaeda, the claim that Lindsey Graham lied about Ambassador Rice making.

Jack--you got me. That was a good one. I will cut down on the meds as you so eloquently advise. Are you a doctor by the way? You seem just so dang smart and I am barely able to get myself dressed in the morning. I know you must be smart because you voted for Obama and you have told us all how smart you and all those people who voted for him are. I can tell your family and kids must really adore you and I bet your friends think you are just the most wonderful person. You see all of us low information low intelligent people just love being told what to do and we never want to have our own opinions and views. We need really smart people like you and David and Seeking Sanity and the greatest of them all Fiesty to get us through life and just tell us how to think, act and what to say. Its such an exciting life when we all think alike, act alike and behave just like each other. I know your teenage children just love parents like that so I am sure you were voted best parent in the whole wide world. Thank you for being you and allowing me to actually share space on this small world next to all of your brilliance and success as I cant even fit in the shadow of your greatness. The biggest mystery though if you could just share is how do you guys do it? How are you able to carry this burden around and have such amazing reputations as the best and smartest in all the world without ever showing it? Its just amazing how you are able to ignore the little brains of the world and never have to provide them any substance. Oh great one, could you tell me how you do it?

Oh I see the little boys have to try to discredit anyone who is heads above them in intelligence. My BA is from Northwestern and my Masters is from Duke. The boards I serve on - one is a telecommunications company and the other is a up and coming new venture.

But, little boys, go ahead with whatever makes you feel better.

Sorry little Kirky - no paralegal job here. I have a VP position. Now off to another client meeting so you little boys can spin it any way you want!

Snakebone

Exhibit One is the idea that had Rice divulged that al Qaeda was behind the Benghazi attack, that would have somehow hurt Obama's chances at reelection.

The "revelation" that it was a terrorist attack came out a month before the election. Obama still won, so it doesn't seem to have hurt his chances in any observable way, despite McCain and Graham ranting and raving. And if Obama had wanted to, he could easily have kept the lid on until after Election Day

Client running late so I do need to say - frankly it doesn't matter where anyone gets their education - just what they do with it. I work with people who have studied in a variety of schools and I have great respect for each of them!

Seeking Sanity--I got news for you. I attended Duke and I have risen much farther than VP. If you really attended Duke then we should have some in common knowledge which you can share with me. Even better, my daughter has her undergrad and grad degree from Duke. So what street is the hospital on? Before you google it, give me some knowledge of Durham that only a true Dukie would know. Are you supposed to be impressing me with boards? First, I dont believe it and second so what. I serve on several and so far it certainly hasnt made you more tolerant. If you really have that pedigree, I am ashamed of the way you treat people. You should know better.

Dear Kirk:

Let me be plain. No one cares where you claim to have gone to school, and no one has any interest in your bullying and harassing behavior. You have crossed a line today. You owe Seeking an apology, and I am quite sure you will spin into whinging about what a victim you are when you read this.

I generally don't respond to your posts or read them because you bore the snot out of me.

The reason people think you aren't terribly bright? You can't write a cogent post. All you do is attack people that don't believe as you do.

As for me? BASTA!

Seeking Sanity--you, Jack and David are the ones that made education and intelligence an issue. Nobody on here has said that they dont have great respect for people from any school. If you had great respect for people, you wouldnt put them down for having opinions different than yours. If you truly went to Northwestern and Duke you would be able to articulate a defense for many of Obama's economic policies or positions which you never do which makes it appear as if you dont have the ability to do so. If you had great respect you would give others a seat at the table to share differing opinions and views and maybe learn something from their perspectives. Sorry but so far you have shown anything but great respect and tolerance.

NewDa--I dont care where I went either its irrelevant. Not sure why you are posting to me if you dont read my posts. I didnt call anyone retarded or stupid because I didnt agree with them. Of course you find my posts boring because you prefer to read posts you agree with. Thats fine. I personally dont enjoy debating people who I agree with and find that boring. I certainly dont think I am a victim of anything and Seeking Sanity is the last person that deserves an apology. For what? I am supposed to apologize for her calling me stupid? I gave Jack and the whole gang an opportunity to provide reasonable defenses for their positions or to provide me with substantive response but they failed to do so. If my posts are not cogent then why does everyone who is progressive or an Obama supporter immediately attack me? They must somehow understand them. I dont attack anyone that doesnt believe the same as I do. I ask them why they believe what they believe how is that attacking. Just prove me wrong. Several people on here including Freshiee, Akeem and Yellowdog have provided much to think about and learn from. Seeking Sanity et al not so much.

Aha, Kirk, so predictable.

IT'S VICTIM TIME!

Do have a very happy Thanksgiving and spend sometime reflecting on why you cannot get traction on FR.

You spin around and around and around, and still come up with:

NOTHING!

HUH? Did you read my post? I said explicitly that I wasnt a victim nor do I feel that way. So how am I spinning? I am not trying to get traction as much as stir up debate? Do you enjoy back slapping with people who think just like you? If so why bother posting to me? Do you try and look at things from an opposing perspective? Is it possible that people with different experiences could actually have a point and something worthwhile to say? Why not give me food for thought instead of telling me I have "nothing" which is what you all say. Not very objective or useful.

Im sorry Houston but Al Qaeda is probably far from decimated. I would love to see how you are privvy to info the rest of us dont have? I mean whats the point being in Afghan at this point? because of the Talib(an)? right.

Seeking Sanity--you, Jack and David are the ones that made education and intelligence an issue.

Only partially true. We made intelligence (or lack of it) an issue. We never mentioned education. But as Newday pointed out, you're always playing the victim, so in post #1.78 you started talking about your high IQ and your education and your work--as if it any of it means anything at all. In that and subsequent post you keep trying to prove to us that you're intelligent, when virtually everything you say demonstrates the opposite. It's like your telling Newday that you explicitly said that you're not a victim, when in fact your post #1.97--although it pretends to be sarcastic--sounds like it is written by a sniveling 8-year-old who is feeling sorry for himself.

And here's CA attacking Houston. CA is embarrassed because he got caught with his pants down--he equated "dismantling" with "decimated", and said they were virtually the same thing. Houston had to teach him otherwise, and CA, who must never, ever admit a mistake because then he would look like the fool he is, now accuses Houston of pretending to be "privvy to info the rest of us dont [sic] have".

Nice try, CA. But you're the only one who was fooled. Fool.

Yep got me again Jack. I give you every opportunity to post something substantively and you ignore it. Your measure of intelligence is whether someone agrees with you. I just dont buy that and I might be sarcastic, I might be strong in my opinion and views but I dont personally attack you. I gave you credit when I said I agreed with you and even told you that you that I would always listen to your views. But instead of ever giving me a substantive post you prefer to attack. Yes, that makes me a victim in your words. That makes me more credible in my world and probably any objective third party world. I have never been intolerant of your views.

Well, I see the two little ones have been busy while I was in meetings.

First NewDay - thank you. But, I expect nothing better from Kirk -or CA for that matter. When I first started posting I made the mistake of actually trying to converse with Kirk only to have him change his position and do his famous spin on any stance I took. I finally realized he has no stance and no facts - just wants to try to look like he's intelligent. Maybe he is but that's hard to believe.

Kirk -I would no more discuss who I know from Duke with you than I would tell you my name. You've proved over and over that you would stoop to any depths to damage anyone who doesn't agree with you and doesn't grovel at your feet.

However, I will tell you one person I know from the Duke board - Julie Esrey, although I don't think she's still on the board.

Now go do your little quizes with someone who actually gives a damn what you think or what you believe. You've proved, yet again, that you are beneath contempt.

Clearly MOST PEOPLE on this site have your number - oh, and it's not a 10!

Pat - I am not good at posting links - always seem to mess up. But you need to go back to obamadiary and see the new photos of our elegant First Lady charming a child who visited the White House. The other new photos show how everyone is captivated by our President. It is such an honor to have them representing the United States.

Seeking - thanks for giving "kirk" hell...it is well deserved. He had said once that the Cayman Islands were off the coast of Great Britain (he knew 'cause he's been there...ha-ha) and when caught, he ran away (I recall asking him how the flight was...). When I reminded him of that fact later, while discussing his irrelevance, he flat out called me a liar.

He's a nasty little person when you call him on his "facts" and I thought he would have faded away after the election....but...like a herpes sore on a Palin child, he keeps coming back...

Seeking Sanity and Shocked and Disgusted--thanks for proving my points over and over. You obviously didnt go to Duke as it would be very easy for you to name a few landmarks. I have clearly provided you facts and a stance over and over and you can never respond. I just gave you a softball question allowing you to provide us a substantive response regarding one of Obama's positions and you couldnt. Shocked--I never said that and it amazes me the lengths you guys go to in order to personally attack. You confused the Isle of Jersey with the Caymans and I have never ran away. You continue to create fabrications in order to discredit someone who doesnt share your opinion. If you notice, its always Jack, Seeking Sanity, David and Jen who run away. They never provide any real substance but just personal attacks.

So again, you can bring out more friends who call me herpes? a liar, an idiot or whatever you guys need to make yourself feel good on an anonymous blog but what I really dont understand your purpose. Do you really not have the ability to provide any substance? SS--sorry that I called you out on your Duke claim. Talk about lying.

Kirk - you have serious personal issues and I hope, for your sake, you get some help.

I won't play your stupid games with you. I know where I went to school and the fact that you want to play silly games for your ego is your problem. The fact that you don't recognize Julie Esrey says everything about your claim to have attended Duke.

I truly hope you have a good Thanksgiving and maybe try to grow up a little. I know that's futile in your case but I am the enternal optomist!

BS Seeking Sanity as all Dukies are proud of their alma mater and would answer my questions in a second. Clearly you didnt attend the school and you got caught in a lie. You are correct I dont recognize Julie Esrey and if she is on the Board of Trustees, I dont know everyone on the Board. I do know Rick Waggoner and Robert Steele both Duke grads and on the Board. But I am happy to even let you know the basketball players from my era and the places we ate and drank.

Why is it that I need to grow up? I am trying to play well in the sand box, its you and your friends that are tossing all the kids that dont think like them. Thanks for the kind wishes on Thanksgiving as it should be nice with all my kids home. Duke is playing at 2:30 too in the first round of their Bahamas tournament are you going to watch it?

Poor "kirk"...Don't you realize that, for a Palin child, a herpes sore is a badge of honor? You should be flattered.

It really doesn't matter what you've done, who you think you've done it with, or what you think you know. A liar is a liar.

Seeking - we must allow "kirk" to be right. It consoles him for being nothing else.

Perhaps we could start with a reminder from Newt and his failed attempt to educate us on his screwy theory that Palestinians are an invented people. Then we could move on to Romney's intelligent theory that Israel's superb wealthy culture materialized out of thin air. I guess we should ignore that the invented nation of Israel in the 1940s was made material wealthy because of the trillions we have sunk into their economy since their invention/inception.

Hi Noid, RedDev, ... being convinced that the opposing Peoples and governments won't agree on a contiguous boundary defined in perpetuity, I always end up feeling dumb in any attempt at a "solution". We all know it eventually needs to be drawn, but dealing with two separate representative Palestinian 'governments' makes any agreement much more difficult, so a unification of the people behind one may be required. Magic Eight Ball (I wonder if the name of that toy was a joke) says 'Not Likely'.

I agree what gets me is these heart wrenching pics of Gaza citizens with the loook of "why me?" why are we so persecuted look, when their own elected officials started it. To the Palestineans you wreap what you sow.

Super well-said GBM -

McCainGraham want Ms. Rice's head and anyone else's they can get ... in recompense for GOP's "death spiral" (quote from Graham).

Their plan is to scare up a whopper faux story-line (with Limbaugh's help), and we're @@ tired & unimpressed by this GOP approach to everything.

FORWARD WITH OBAMA/BIDEN>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

GBM, excellent post. Too many republicans have jumped down Alice's Rabbit Hole and put their faith in FOX, the purveyors of conspiracy theories and landslide victory polls for Mitt Romney. They, too, seem to have tossed aside the truth, the facts, and instead have embraced the craziness of right-wing media.

McCain, after General Petraeus testified, appeared before the TV cameras and muttered a few words before exiting the stage. He couldn't get away from the media fast enough. I noticed that as he exited, a journalist must have asked a question or said something to him, he didn't like because he turned briefly to glare. The question I would ask these fools is: where are the public apologies to Ambassador Rice and our President--in front of the TV cameras, please.

GBM -- Not to mention the fact that they are wasting time and money with their theatrics. They're not conservatives in any sense of the word. Since when did national security matters become fodder? Outrageous.

Nice post.

Gingerbread, it's sad isn't it? McCain is under the assumption that he matters. He doesn't.

One question I would ask the media, including MTP, is why they continue to give the microphone to folks like McCain and Graham; their credibility is zero yet the media keeps giving them a stage to tout their vindictive lies.

GBM, excellent analysis as usual:

Susan Rice is superbly qualified to be SOS and apparently did a terrific job in feeding the media hounds approved information as the murky facts were being gathered. I am having trouble understanding what the 'beef' is here. Do McCain and Graham expect an SOS candidate to have a crystal ball? Surely they are not condoning an 'outing' of sources to satisfy Fox News?

All in all, Susan Rice looks like she will be owed a public apology by Sean Hannity; I seriously doubt she will get it.

Good Morning Friends, thank you for the kind words. This situation is very bothersome to me, because everything is being blown out of proportion, and Pat and Jody I lay the blame right at the feet of the media. These guys would be a mere speck in the eye of humanity if the press would stop letting themselves be used. Yesterday on MTP, it was infuriating to listen to Graham spout off his talking points with little or no rebuttal from David Gregory, talk about being in the GOP pocket, geez no bias there.....snark.

Gingerbread, the media is being exploited and by extension, the American people. The difference is the media doesn't care, since it's all about ratings. We on the other hand do care, which is why we tune them out.

GBM love that post, hit all the points

One question I would ask the media, including MTP,

Jody, include in that list frickin' Newt Gingrich. That idiot has no business being on any news talk media show. About the only place he belongs on Tara Banks show as the biggest loser in fashion.

RedDev - I was wondering as I watched him yesterday, why is ANY SHOW continuing to have Newt on? He is almost as irrelevant as Donald Trump!

Don't forget Mitch McConnell. This morning the Lexington Herald Leader published his letter to the editor in which he correctly pointed out that Kentucky voted Republican in the election. He implied his top (failed) priority of making Obama a one term President had received a mandate from his constituents and that he would continue to to act according their wishes. The overall tone and content of the letter does not lead me to be overly optimistic about any bipartisan agreement to avoid going over the fiscal cliff. If the Republicans have truly learned that the electorate rejects gridlock and wants both parties to work together to solve the country's problems, I strongly suggest they elect themselves a new Senate minority leader, because Mitch clearly didn't get the message.

I don't think Mitch McConnell got the message delivered to the Republicans in the Senate on Nov. 6th. If he wants to have a job in 2016, he'd better pull his head out of his you know where !! He may think that he, "received a mandate" from his constituents, but I believe that it is own Colossal Ego telling him that. The Republicans in the Senate may be well served in electing a new Minority Leader, and I agree that he did'nt get the message sent to him, by the rest of the people in this Country, when they re-elected President Obama !!And by the way........ To all of my friends, and the people at FR, have a very SAFE and, HAPPY THANKSGIVING !!!!

Ah WalMart ... how interesting that they do not pay enough in salary and therefor many of their employees must rely on food stamps. So who really benefits from this entitlement program? ... WalMart ... it is the fat baby that sucks the tit dry.

The CEO of WalMart makes more in ONE hour than the typical worker makes in a year...

I have never shopped there and never will!

Last night on the NBC Nightly news, they showed a line already forming in front of a Best Buy somewhere, said to my husband this represents everything wrong with this country!

Bunch of materialistic morons!

Flat Screen TV = $200

Irreplaceable time with famly & friends = PRICELESS!

Wow ! Who would believe I agree with feisty ! Voting you up !

There is nothing wrong with gettin' up in the AM....turning on the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade (and welcoming the Red Suited Wonder)....putting the Turkey in the oven...watching some football, dog show or some other TV favorite...eatin' some Turkey, stuffin' veggies, and Apple/Pumpkin Pie.....watchin' some more football...and spending the day with family and friends...I for one will not be mashed by the masses either on Thursday or Friday....ah the joys of Cape Cod on thanksgiving weekend!

To all those who enjoy FR....have a wonderful Thanksgiving and a safe weekend!

BOYCOTT BLACK THURSDAY!!!

Amen Da Noid

Agree wholeheartedly Da Noid.

Don't.

I know I will sound like a crazy liberal, but I can't stand Wal-Mart. I think they represent the darkest side of capitalism, when the quest for corporate profits precludes any sense of responsibility to employees, communities, or country.

Wal-Mart has not only contributed to the decline of American manufacturing they have encouraged it, by setting up areas in China for their suppliers where goods can be produced, packaged and shipped to America. They strong-arm their suppliers to move producton to China so they can save a few pennies, unconcerned with the cost in lost jobs or destroyed communities.

They discriminate against women, they pay their workers low wages, they use "Eminent Domain" to secure their store sites, they leave huge vacant buildings and move down the street to avoid paying taxes.

I wish people would consider the damage their purchase of cheap products at Wal-Mart does to local retailers and American manufacturers.

BOYCOTT BLACK THURSDAY, AND SHOP LOCAL!!!

Thank you Paul. Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.

We're all just managing to get off our poor junk food diet during the last few weeks of the campaign, and now here we are - looking ahead to lots of over eating.

Only this time it's good. It's all good with lots to be thankful for.

TNSEVOL, I think more and more people are opening their eyes and ears to the complaints they have heard about WalMart. Don't know if it's enough, but it's important that WalMart workers feel the nation is behind them.

Remember when WalMart used to promote "made in USA" products? That was a long time ago and old man Walton has been spinning in his grave ever since.

It's sad to know that folks shop at Walmart because they have the lowest cost and it's the only place they can afford to shop. Vicious cycle.

DaNoid, excellent thoughts. I intend to boycott Black Thursday for the reasons you post. Thanksgiving is a day for family, a day to enjoy and be thankful just because....

It is time for consumers to say "enough" and just not participate. Time to send a message to Walmart and the others like them on Thanksgiving Day. Boycott them all, stay home, enjoy Thanksgiving and let the workers enjoy their day as well. There is plenty of time for shopping another day.

TNSEVOL, also well said. UP with Chris Hayes had two Walmart workers on the show this weekend; it was worth the time to watch.

Feisty, forgot to say cheers for that one. Even jim#'s agrees!

Paul, nicely said. Happy Thanksgiving!

100% agree Miss Feisty! I know people who will drive 40 miles to go to Walmart, personally I'm willing to drive 40 miles NOT to!

I have never participated in Black Friday nor do I ever plan to, I do most of my shopping on the internet anyway.

Have a Happy and safe Thanksgiving y'all!

I have boycotted Black Friday for over 20 years and will do so again. I have been to a Wal-Mart twice. Yuck!! I will gladly pay more to support local business.

People forget that WalMart is the only place that is available to shop at. My family lives in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan and they have WalMark and KMart...thats it. I dont begrudge people that have to shop there but for me, I will never shop at a WalMart if I dont have to. Disgusting people and their products are crap. I HATE black friday, I always have. This black Thursday is new to me, but you can count me out of it.

RafftheGreat - you're right. For some people Walmart is the only place they have near them or all they can afford and I don't begrudge anyone in either of those circumstances their shopping there. I do remember when Walmart was started and they proudly proclaimed their products were American made. Too bad they can't still boast that.

I hate black Friday and will NOT participate in black Thursday. I hope most people avoid shopping Thursday especially. That should be a day everyone spends with their families. I hate that stores are making their employees work that day!

I have never participated in Black Friday nor do I ever plan to, I do most of my shopping on the internet anyway.

Fitz,

Same here! I have found myself doing more online shopping each year! Nothing like choosing gifts from the comfort of your own home instead of fighting thousands at the mall! lol

I wish you & your family a wonderful Thanksgiving!

Hope you're feeling better!

Da Noid

I'm already working on Hillary's 2020 re-election campaign.

I thought Christie was a hoot on SNL. At least he can laugh at himself.

Christie was hysterical on SNL. Showed he can make fun of himself and enjoy the part he played in it. Well done!

IR, what a lovely tradition! Going to set that extra place and hope that mom comes to visit in spirit!

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.

There is much wisdom in your words IR. Thanks for sharing them.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.

Set an extra place at the table for Holiday gatherings for the Angels of your life to have to rest awhile with you and your kin

Floyd,

Your *pearl of wisdom* got me through a rough patch that first year...

I have been doing this every year since my Mom passed!

Even fill her wine glass for a *toast* in her honor!

Independent, beautiful. Just beautiful.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.

Thanks IR - I'd need a separate table to welcome those that join us in spirit!

I am facing the holidays this year with mixed feelings of joy and sadness. My mom passed away suddenly and unexpectedly in early October, on my birthday.

This will be our first Thanksgiving without her. She loved Thanksgving and Christmas, and was a huge part of our holiday traditions. Her birthday is Dec. 23rd, and her ashes wil be buried on Dec. 24th (we delayed her burial until my nephew's tour of duty with the Air Force in Korea was over). My son has spent every New Year's Eve with his Granny, so in so many ways her loss will echo throughout this holiday season.

I will set a place in her honor on Thanksgiving and Christmas, and know that she will never be forgotten.

TNSEVOL:

May God sustain you in your loss. I know the pain, and it just knocks you completely off your feet, doesn't it?

Your mom sounds like she was a wonderful woman, and will live on in the memory of family and friends who love her.

Peace to you this holiday season.

She loved Thanksgving and Christmas,

TNSEVOL,

Same with mine!

You & your family will be in my thoughts during this difficult time...

Thanksgiving was the holiday she loved to host the most!

It will be 3 years on New Years Eve since she left us, the holidays haven't been the same since...

I will set a place in her honor on Thanksgiving and Christmas, and know that she will never be forgotten.

Know she will be with you in spirit...

IR, perfectly said, lovely thoughts!

Our loved ones may be gone but they live in our hearts forever. Happy Thanksgiving!

NDD & Feisty -

Thanks for the kind thoughts and wishes.

Feisty, I will be thinking of you and yours also.

TNSEVOL, the holidays more than anything are a time of year for remembering. I always liked this quote and hope it brings you some solace during the holidays:

Death leaves a heartache no one can heal, love leaves a memory no one can steal. ~From a headstone in Ireland

TNSEVOL When we make a place for our Angels it reminds us that we are truly never alone. Lost my Mom and Dad many years ago but still struggle about everyday to realize the good in myself that that sometimes it seemed that only they understood. They stood beside me in some tough times and carried me as far along the way as they could and I won't ever forget it. .........Thanks for the kind words all the rest of you'll may you enjoy a peaceful happy Thanksgiving and hoping that everyone will remember our friends in New York and New Jersey that are struggling this Thanksgiving. If you can't be there in person throw an extra nickel in the pot for 'em.

TNSEVOL - she will be watching over you on Thanksgiving. Remember that she would only want you to be happy and live life to the fullest. That is the greatest gift you can give her.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

Beautifully said IR--thank you for sharing the lovely thought. My best wishes for a happy and peaceful Thanksgiving to all.

TNSEVOL - so sorry to hear of your loss...Especially at this time of the year know She is there with you in spirit...laughing and smiling as She always did on those special days!..Always remember the good times...

To all of you, your thoughts have been inspirational.

My thoughts are with you as you deal with the changes in your personal lives. I think the fact that memories are so strong is a sign that the spiritual presence lives on even though the physical presence does not.

The holidays are reminders of a lot of things, but they are also a time of celebration. May you all celebrate well!

Thank you IR - nice reminder.

To all posters on FR, Happy Thanksgiving!!

To FR staff, Happy Thanksgiving!!

I, as a fiscal conservative and former lifelong Republican, attribute the presidential election loss to the Republican primary process................. they did not field a single good candidate. Why? Who wanted to subject themselves to running that crazy gauntlet? Perhaps, next time they will have cleaned up their act and jettisoned the religious zealots and right wing crazies who made it impossible for a "moderate" Republican (the only kind that can win a general election) to win the primary.

The GOP must also rid itself of a radical, far right, party platform. They may be sounding more reasonable but their policies have not changed. Until those policies change to match some of their newly found moderate chatter, they cannot rid themselves of the crazy. The GOP has been preaching to the right-wing choir for 30 years, now they reap what they have sown for several decades.

On PBS yesterday, a local Iowa segment, there were three republicans talking about their party as well as discussing the losses on Nov 6. The lady said that the republican party is "open" and "welcoming" to minorities, that most people believe as they do, etc.; found myself thinking she can say it all she wants but words are meaningless if the policies do not reflect them.

Bobcb - Hopefully the Republicans will start fielding some good candidates again. I thought Huntsman was probably their best candidate, but he just did not fit the mold of the hard line folks apparently running the party this time. I always try to choose the best candidate I feel is available at the time. I actually voted for Bush for his second term, as I thought he was more qualified than Kerry, but this go around there was no one after Huntsman that I could seriously consider.

Almost if not all the Republican candidates bordered on extremists, except for Romney, and he just appeared to always say whatever he felt the audience in front of him wanted to hear.

If Romney is the monster you all think he is, consider why Obama did not win by a landslide. A lot of the states Obama won was by a very narrow margin. Look at Florida.. I guess Obama was not the best choice for the libs but you settled for him because you had too? Many of you will understand your mistake in the coming months. Ignorance is bliss, at least for a little while.

XYZYX - Well - you are certainly the person to understand ignorance. Your entire post is full of it!

Seeking, Think about it for a moment. Libs have been saying what a complete loser Romney is. You remember all the talk about Mittens and Mitt the twit etc. Well, if you look logically at the situation, Romney didn't lose by all that much, which makes Obama just slightly less of a loser and twit. Yes?

XYZ -- Why are all the Republicans running from Romney? The very people who nominated him are now blaming him yet they are the ones that nominated him. Go figure!

XYZYX-

Romney didn't lose by all that much

You keep telling yourself that. There were nine 'swing' states and Romney lost eight of them - and it was really only close in one.

Yes, the popular vote margin was only 3% but President Obama had over 50% of the vote and won by a larger margin than either GW Bush victory.

It was an electoral a$$-kicking, despite the massive outside funds spent on smearing Pres. Obama.

TNS, the only "a$$ kicking" is what the American people, you and me, are about to get. If you can't see it coming you are blind. But hey your guy won and that's all that counts!

There are several websites that cater to those who want to Shop American this holiday season.

Here is one article that addresses this issue:

More Look to 'Shop American' for Christmas

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/more-look-shop-american-christmas-133000739.html

Matthew - well said!

Matthew, perfectly said.

You should have been more careful with your wishes.

Sure he does... Please never again conpare Obama to Lincoln. Ok?

kr...And exactly WHO is Obama freeing from slavery? Who is he willing to go to war with to MAINTAIN a democratic free nation? To compare our present Failure in Chief with someone as GREAT as Lincoln was is not only an insult to Lincoln, but an insult to ALL FREE PEOPLE.

Lincoln was willing to fight to END SLAVERY and the mistreatment of an entire group of people.

Meanwhile Obama abandons Iraq to Iran, wants to abandon Afghanistan to the Taliban, and doesn't seem to mind that Egypt, Tunisia, and Libya are being controlled by Islamic extremists who treat their women like virtual slaves, murder non-Muslims that are citizens of their own countries and celebrate doing it, and think that YOU are an animal that not only can be, but should be, killed because you don't believe what they do.

Hardly anything close to "standing tall with Lincoln".

Thank you Cheryl.

Should have been "compare" not "conpare." Obama and Biden would be a "con pair" but I don't think 'conpare" is a word, yet.

kr, nicely said. I read "Team of Rivals" when it was first published; well worth the time to read it.

As for XYZYX, there is a difference between comparing (use spellcheck XY) President Obama to Lincoln, which kr did not do, and saying that he "stands tall" with Mr. Lincoln which is what kr said. President Obama also believes in equality and fairness for everyone regardless of their skin color or their gender or their sexual preferences. That is just one example of the similarities between these two. That is what "stands tall with" means.

There are very few who could stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Mr. Lincoln, certainly none of the current crop of Republicans could. In fact, I think he would find very little in common with Republicans of today.

A few of my favorite quotes from one of our wisest presidents:

“Allow the president to invade a neighboring nation, whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such a purpose - and you allow him to make war at pleasure.”

“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”

“Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth.”

“How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.”

“I care not much for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it.”

“I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts.”

“No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar.”

“Republicans are for both the man and the dollar, but in case of conflict the man before the dollar.“

“Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right.”

-Abraham Lincoln

Jody, thank you so much for steering me to the spell checker!! I can not thank you enough! Your helpful insight has probably changed my life! Thank you!!!!! You must be a liberal!!! Only a liberal would have known to use spell check!!! You are awesome!!! Obama must have been the right choice!!!!! I must be such a fool!!!

Actually TNS, Obama has virtually nothing in common with anything you just posted about Lincoln. Nothing.

kr....And that doesn't even count that while Lincoln wanted the nation UNITED, Obama spent almost four years attempting to DIVIDE this nation along racial, gender, and economic classes.

All we have heard from this hate mongerer is how blacks and Hispanics are victims, women are mistreated, and how the rich somehow owe more.

NEVER a word of how EVERYONE IS EQUAL in this nation and that EVERYONE has the right to succeed or fail by taking personal responsibility for their lives. Instead it's been how the government is going to make everyone "equal" and no one needs to actually do anything for themselves anymore.

I don't need "free" contraceptive care paid for by someone else. I don't need the government telling me how THEY somehow know better than me what I need for health insurance. I don't need the government telling me that if I'm successful that I owe more than those that aren't. I don't need the government telling me that if I'm not white that I'm somehow "owed" more opportunities than those that aren't. I don't need the government telling me that I am a "victim", "mistreated", or "owed" based on race, gender, or finances.

I need the government and Obama to leave me my CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS to succeed or fail on my own merits, intelligence, hard work or just plain luck. I need the government and Obama to allow me to CHOOSE for myself what I need to take care of myself and my family without them intruding on my RIGHTS.

I need to the government to stop RUINING this nation and allow this nation to be the success it was BEFORE people like Obama started their "fundamental change" to what this nation was founded on.

Lincoln wanted ONE NATION, ruled BY the people, and FOR the people. Obama wants a DIVIDED NATION, ruling OVER the people.

Respectfully CherylLM, I think you may be mistaken.

President Obama has endorsed Marriage EQUALITY and the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act (for job and pay EQUALITY). He has endorsed and is working for EQUAL economic opportunity (not success) for all. He decried the inequities of access to health care and changed that through the PPACA.

Not once has he ever said "how the government is going to make everyone "equal" and no one needs to actually do anything for themselves anymore." (quoting from your post 15.9)

And since YOU are referring to historical events, you have to remember that it was President Reagan's policies on deregulation that started our fall from economic grace, that "trickle down economics" don't work [see the recent study by the Congressional Research Service] EXCEPT to increase thedivide between the haves and have nots) and that President Bush spent 10 trillion dollars in his time in office (the five trillion Clinton surplus, plus the 5 trillion in debt from the2 wars and the reduction in revenue from the tax cuts). In NO case has President Obama argued for (what you are presenting in other terms) socialism, specifically because that involves personal commitment and effort.

So please don't give us the flawed and factually incorrect argument that President Obama is "ruining this nation."

Cheryl, anyone that thinks that Obama has not tried to unite the nation has not been paying attention.

Cheryl -

Your completely misstated President Obama's positions and actions.

Despite Republican claims of divisiveness, President Obama has always stated he represents all Americans. His broad support across almost all demographic groups demonstrates that he is a uniter, not a divider. It is Republicans who consistently try to separate Americans into "makers" and "takers".

Mitt Romney was the candidate who claimed 47% considered themselves victims, were dependent on government, would never be responsible citizens, and were beneath his worry.

Unlike Republicans like Paul Ryan, Dick Murdouch and Todd Akin; President Obama was arguing for the RIGHT of women to make their own healthcare CHOICES.

President Obama was in favor not of contraceptives being "Free", but merely covered under the insurance that women PURCHASED.

Democrats want the wealthy, who are already afforded more opportunities and advantages than others, to play by the SAME rules and SHARE the responsibility for the country they profit from.

Republicans since Reagan have waged a war on the middle class, and have pitted us against each other for political gain. Religious versus LGBT, white versus black, middle class versus the poor, unions versus non-union, rural versus urban.

This nation has been the most successful when we work together, when workers are treated fairly by management, when the wealthy pay their fair share, and when we take care of each other. The only thing that has a chance of RUINING this nation is unfettered Capitalism, unrestrained Greed, and divisive politics that consider financial success the only measure of a person's worth.

xyz, Wow! It never ends for for the haters, does it? You lost- I suggest you get over it.

Matthew, the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act does NOT give "job and pay equality". It just gives people the right to SUE others if they THINK they weren't paid what they should have been. Why don't you get your FACTS right please.

And "marriage equality" is the right of any man the right to marry any woman that will have him and the right of any woman to marry any man that will have her. What you are talking about is EXTRA rights based on the SEXUAL CHOICE of a group of people. And CHOICE is the key word. Based on "marriage equality" people should have the right to marry anyone, or anything they want to, and if you go along with that then NAMBLA and their "marraige equality" should also be recognized. After all, isn't it "marriage equality" to allow pedophilic men to have the "right" to marry young boys? And isn't it "marriage equality" to allow polygamy? Isn't it "marriage equality" to allow "marriage" of any type that any person chooses, no matter how foul the "marriage"?

And if you actually check the FACTS, because of the policies of Reagan this nation underwent almost TWO DECADES of economic growth, record job creation, and higher wages.

And your economic numbers on Bush don't come close to comparing to what the GOVERNMENT itself says. There was NO "five trillion dollar surplus" and NEVER has been in our history. And by the way, the Iraq war itself only cost ONE Trillion dollars, and there was LESS invested in Aghanistan than Iraq until Obama "surged". And if you CHECK YOUR FACTS, you'll find that Democrats ALSO demanded that we go into BOTH those wars, before they decided it was POLITICALLY expedient of them to politicize them and attack Bush.

And by the way, when you change the tax rates, there is no "cost" to the government or to the people. It means that the government MIGHT collect less in revenue, but if you check the FACTS on that, you'll find the new tax RATES under Bush actually collected RECORD revenue because of the people actually getting JOBS.

So please don't give us the flawed, and FACTUALLY INCORRECT garbage that you libs throw out all the time.

CHERYLLM - your ignorance is highlighted in your post -over and over again. For instance - if you are stupid enough to think gays make the "choice" to be gay - you clearly lack the intelligence of a rock. Of course people would choose to be ridiculed, harrassed, discriminated against and put down by small minds like you! It is a natural CHOICE.

The rest of your post is just as inane. But continue - you clearly don't know anything except what you are spoonfed by the far right morons Limbaugh, etc.

CherylLM - we clearly have a different perspective of what equal means. To you it means "equal among selective classes or genders." You are advocating Orwellian concept of "Some are more equal than others." To me it means "equality and justice for all" as is required by our Constitution.

Example - your position on same sex marriage is selectively biased rather than inclusive. And the inclusion of your position statement about NAMBLA and "anything" being marriagable, you completely ignore the legal requirement and concept of "legal age and ability to consent." You are making a Westboro Baptist hate filled argument, not an equality one.

Regarding your denial of 5 trillion dollar projected surplus that was spent down, your denial is balderdash: http://cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/27xx/doc2727/entire-report.pdf

I fully agree that all parties demanded we go to war with al-Queda and the nation that was hosting it and refusing to give them up. However, the war with Iraq was based on lies of non-existnat weapons fo mass destruction conveyed by President Bush's administration. In neither case was either war funded through the budget nor was additional revenue generated to pay for them. Further the 5 plus trillion directly spent by President Bush's administration (in addition to continued policies that were appropriately funded at that time) included the 2008 TARP, medicare drug benefit, etc. You can see a chart of those expenditures at http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/07/the-chart-that-should-accompany-all-discussions-of-the-debt-ceiling/242484/ . Add up the numbers, they total more than 5 trillion.

The other five trillion other dollars I was referring to was the continuation of other policies that were then underfunded by the Bush tax cuts. There is a cost to the governemnt when you deliberately cut revenue but don't decrease services being delivered. The government is then funding that delivery using credit.

Regarding the Lily Ledbetter Act - it provides a means of enforcement of pay equality. Something that many other laws lacked. It addresses a simple point that if you pass a law and it has no teeth or ability to be enforced, then that law can be scoffed at. The law directly supports pay equality.

As a side note, I provide facts and (typically) provide links to them. You are providing Limbaugh-esque and O'Reilly-ist speaking points that have little connection to reality except to take things out of context or to create absurdisms based on assumed tangental connections.

What a moronic post.

The "lost" party is people like YOU who think that the government is the answer to everything. That the government has the "right" to punish those that work hard, are successful, and EARN what they have. That the government has the "right" to tell you how to live your life.

What does Libya have to do with our "most pressing issues"? How about the SECURITY of our nation genius? If Obama is willing to allow Americans to DIE and then spend weeks lying about it, what does that say about his administration and what he would do for YOUR security?

You're right about "the economy, jobs, deficits" though. And what do we have to show for that liberal elitist?' Why an economy that grew a "whole" 2% ONLY because of 40 Billion taxpayer dollars were spent buying up mortgages as "securities" (something that actually created the economy we're in in the first place!). Unemployment going UP despite RECORD borrowing, RECORD spending, and RECORD DEFICITS.

And as for Bush, HE CHOSE not to get involved in this election. HE CHOSE to retire gracefully from being President, instead being like Bill Clinton and thinking that he somehow is STILL the President. If you'd notice you'd find that the ONLY Presidents to get involved in or stay in politics AFTER their terms as President are the likes of that anti-Semite CARTER and that adulterer, Felony purgerer, Clinton. Other Presidents STAYED OUT of politics and gave their successors their OWN legacy.

And it the DEMOCRATS that keep saying that they are WILLING to go over the fiscal cliff and PUNISH THE ENTIRE NATION if they can't punish just the rich for being successful. And while Republicans pass actual BUDGETS for this nation, Democrats REFUSE to do anything except borrow, tax, regulate, and SPEND SPEND SPEND.

The real "takers" are people like YOU, who think the government is going to do everything for you, and that you are somehow "owed" simply because you aren't as successful as others, or don't want to pay for you OWN care and needs.

Cheryl you have no clue what the democratic party stands for you spew all hate and bias without looking at the facts as the world sees them. Your tea baggers wanted us to lose our credit rating, 10 to 15 times the dems and the potus tried to work on the problems facing this nation and they got nothing from the REps.

That the government has the "right" to punish those that work hard

The government does not punish those that work hard. The government is committed to helping those that work hard but earn low pay.

SPEND SPEND SPEND.

At least the Democrats TAX & spend, unlike you tea baggers who BORROW & spend!

I can only imagine how much fun Thanksgiving dinner will be at this lunatics table...

Please don't choke on your sour grapes... honey!

Feisty, You only think you have "won" something.

unlike you tea baggers who BORROW & spend!

It's more like beg, borrow, lie, steal, & SPEND like drunken sailors. Then they have the nerve to bitch at the "you people" (democrats) for failing to clean up the mess in 30 days.

Republicans usually have BUDGETS .... Obama runs from budgets because he wants to continue spending money we don't have ! By the time Obama's reign ends, he will likely have the U.S. more than $21.6 trillion in debt ... thus exceeding ALL his predecessors combined !

Did Obama just chunk another $170 million that we don't have to Myanmar ??

Red, You are kidding, right? You can't really be that stupid, can you?

hummbird - I won't shop Black Friday either. There is plenty of time to shop between now and Christmas. And, I am specifically looking for American Made products - as much as possible. Will not darken Walmart's doors - I really couldn't anyway since there are none in Chicago. Oh well!!!

Well Joe, you would know all about being clueless.

Is that you Julia? How goes it? Any good news from N.J?

Hey Prog! Yes, things are getting better there, slowly but surely. Most, not all, but most people have their power back on which is what was making things so difficult for them......It's going to take a long time to get back to normal tho...

How r u? Do you have Thanksgiving plans?

In general the war the Republicans are treating helps the public to see the Republican party for just what it is. An angry, bitter and out of touch party that will use anything for political gain and at the same time accuse those who don't agree with them of being unpatriotic.

That's garbage ! Most Republicans want our country to have a budget and make a realistic attempt to live WITHIN that budget !! Obama has done neither !!!

Only the dense are unable to see the financial demise our country is headed towards ! FORWARD says Obama !!!!

Your comment would be more legitimate if you would acknowledge that Bush contributed as much to the deficit and his money was spent on useless wars that killed over 100,000 innocent people. I would rather have seen the money burned rather than used to kill innocent people.

Now, instead of not.

gotcha....and I agree, I think it's wonderful to bring hope to that country....

Yea, Blow Israel off completely, but heck, Burma is happy. Hooray for King Obama!!! Long live the King!!!