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Subscribe to RSSObama leaves himself some wiggle in fiscal-cliff talks (on where the top tax rate ultimately ends up)… The fundamental question: Are there Republicans who would vote for a temporary increase in the top rate?... Why Romney’s “gifts” explanation for his loss is laughable… Obama vs. McCain: Hard to separate the personal from the professional… Obama heads to New York to survey Hurricane Sandy damage… Autopsy 2012: looking at the African-American vote… And David Gregory interviews Doris Kearns Goodwin in his weekly “Press Pass” video.
Mandel Ngan / AFP - Getty Images
President Barack Obama speaks during a press conference Nov.14, 2012 in the East Room of the White House.
*** Wiggle room: Besides rebuking John McCain on his criticism of UN Ambassador Susan Rice and besides praising Gen. David Petraeus’ service, President Obama made some other big news at yesterday’s press conference. He gave himself some wiggle room in the upcoming fiscal cliff negotiations. Obama did draw a line in the sand, arguing that he would oppose extension of the Bush tax cuts on all income above $250,000. “When it comes to the Top 2%, what I’m not going to do is to extend further a tax cut for folks who don’t need it, which would cost close to a trillion dollars.” But where he left some wiggle room was where those top rates would ultimately be. When one of us asked him if the top rates must be the 39% from the Clinton years, Obama responded, “I just want to emphasize I am open to new ideas. If Republican counterparts or some Democrats have a great idea for us to raise revenue, maintain progressivity, make sure the middle class isn’t getting hit, reduces our deficit, encourages growth, I’m not going to just slam the door in their face.”
*** The fundamental question: Are there enough Republican votes? The news here isn’t just what Obama said; it’s also what Republicans heard -- that there is the possibility for a deal on where the top rates eventually end up. They were relieved to hear what the president said. Folks, realize this: For 2013, the rate could go up to, say, 37% for some folks and 39% for millionaires, or maybe it’s just the millionaires. The point is, that’s where the president hinted he’s willing to negotiate and there certainly sounds like there is an openness among some Republicans to negotiate on those grounds. For their part, the wiggle room that GOP leaders have indicated is that they’re in favor of more revenues, just not higher rates. House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan gave a statement to Breitbart News saying that any new revenue must come without raising rates. “We can find common ground on responsible spending restraint and greater revenue through economic growth, but we have yet to see either a serious plan or leadership from President Obama,” Ryan said. So here’s the fundamental question given the wiggle room from both sides so far: Can House Republicans tolerate a temporary increase in the top rate with the assumption that the rate could later be negotiated as part of broader tax reform? Could GOPers -- thinking about the prospect of a primary challenge -- consider doing that?
*** We come bearing “gifts”: In a conference call with his top donors yesterday, Mitt Romney blamed his defeat on the fact that President Obama and his administration were able to offer “gifts” to African-American, Latino, and young voters, according to the L.A. Times and New York Times. What were those gifts in Romney’s telling? The health-care law. Help with student loans. Free contraception under the health-care law. The executive action stopping the deportation of qualified young illegal immigrants. Some Republicans weren’t too pleased by Romney’s words, which seemed like a rehash of his infamous “47%” comments. “I think that’s absolutely wrong,” Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal (R) said at a Republican Governors Association meeting, per Politico. “Two points on that: One, we have got to stop dividing the American voters. We need to go after 100% of the votes, not 53%... And, secondly, we need to continue to show how our policies help every voter out there achieve the American Dream.” Latino Republican Alfonso Aguilar, a Romney supporter, called the remarks a “slap in the face” to the Latino community and added, “He lost the election by making comments like that to Latinos.”
While President Barack Obama was paying Mitt Romney compliments in his post-election press conference, the former GOP presidential candidate was telling donors on a conference call a different story. The Daily Rundown's Chuck Todd reports.
*** Why Romney’s “gifts” explanation is laughable: When you think about it, Romney’s explanation for Obama’s victory is laughable -- the president won because he successfully delivered to his voters. Isn’t that what politicians and presidents are supposed to do? In addition, Romney’s “gifts” rationale doesn’t explain why he lost Iowa, New Hampshire, and Wisconsin, states with older and whiter populations. What’s particularly striking here: Jindal’s criticism. He was the first Republican to step up here, and it’s an easy brave moment if you’re an aspiring 2016er. A softball to hit out of the park. Romney, sounding more bitter than big in those comments, is giving plenty of aspiring Republican leaders to now use this moment to distinguish themselves from Romney. Watch for a bunch of folks on the GOP side to pile on actually.
*** Hard to separate the personal from the professional: Then we come to yesterday’s back-and-forth between President Obama and John McCain over Susan Rice. It all began in the morning, when McCain, along with Sen. Lindsey Graham, essentially tried to declare Susan Rice’s potential nomination as Secretary of State to be D.O.A. because of her performance on the Sunday shows days after the Benghazi attack. Obama seemed particularly fired up at the opportunity to respond at his press conference: “If Sen. McCain and Sen. Graham and others want to go after somebody, they should go after me. And I’m happy to have that discussion with them. But for them to go after the U.N. ambassador, who had nothing to do with Benghazi, and was simply making a presentation based on intelligence that she had received, and to besmirch her reputation is outrageous.” McCain then took the Senate floor: "If the president thinks that we are picking on people, he really does not have any idea of how serious this issue is." Part of this is the bulldog in McCain; when he gets focused on an issue (see campaign finance reform), he doesn’t let go. And McCain’s been focused on Benghazi since the get-go. But make no mistake here: It’s very hard to separate the personal from the professional (especially when McCain supported the other Rice -- Condi -- despite intelligence failures that happened under her watch). McCain and his party have now lost twice to Obama, and that frustration shows.
*** Rice’s chances of being nominated just increased: One other thing here: If you thought that Obama might decide to pass on nominating Susan Rice to be the next Secretary of State, think again. Yesterday’s confrontation might have been the best thing to happen to her chances of being nominated. The president is a pragmatist and is usually someone who likes to avoid confirmation fights for his appointees. But the more the GOP attacks Rice, the more dug in the White House and president might get.
*** Obama’s day: The president heads to New York City to survey the damage caused by Hurricane Sandy. This is Obama’s second Sandy-related trip and his first since winning re-election.
*** Autopsy 2012: The size of the African-American vote: With just two exceptions, in every state where there’s a sizable African-American population (and 2012 exit polls), the share of the African-American vote either stayed the same -- or increased in last week’s presidential election. Where it increased: Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, New Jersey, Ohio. Where it stayed the same: Florida, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Virginia. Where it decreased: Alabama and New York (and in both cases, it was by just one percentage point). Bottom line: One of the most bogus storylines of the last four years (driven by some African American leaders who have never been Obama fans) is the idea that somehow African-Americans weren’t going to be as fired up about Obama or were somehow disappointed and would show that disappointment by not showing up to the polls.
Alabama: 2008: 29%; 2012: 28%
Florida: 2008: 13%; 2012: 13%
Michigan: 2008: 12%; 2012: 16%
Mississippi: 2008: 33%; 2012: 36%
Missouri: 2008: 13%; 2012: 16%
New Jersey: 2008: 12%; 2012: 18%
New York: 2008: 17%; 2012: 16%
Ohio: 2008: 11%; 2012: 15%
North Carolina: 2008: 23%; 2012: 23%
Pennsylvania: 2008: 13%; 2012: 13%
Virginia: 2008: 20%; 2012: 20%
*** More Autopsy 2012: “Daily Rundown” MSNBC producer Dave Murphy offers some additional analysis of the exit polls, ranking where the battleground states stood on some of the top issues. The battleground state that most wants the government to do less? Iowa. The state that most wants to repeal all or some of the health-care law? Colorado. The state that most wants to keep it or expand it? Wisconsin. And the state that most wants to raise taxes on everyone or those making $250,000-plus? Nevada.
Government should do less
Iowa: 61%
Colorado: 60%
Ohio: 56%
New Hampshire: 53%
Nevada: 51%
Virginia: 51%
National Average: 51%
Wisconsin: 50%
Florida: 50%
Health care law
Colorado: +16 repeal some/all
Iowa: +15 repeal some/all
Ohio: +12 repeal some/all
Florida: +9 repeal some/all
National Average: +5 repeal some/all
Nevada: +2 repeal some/all
Virginia: +1 repeal some/all
New Hampshire: even
Wisconsin: +3 keep/expand
Raise taxes for $250K+ earners or everyone
Nevada: 64%
Wisconsin: 64%
Virginia: 63%
Iowa: 63%
New Hampshire: 61%
National Average: 60%
Ohio: 57%
Florida: 57%
*** David Gregory, Doris Kearns Goodwin, and Lincoln: In his weekly “Press Pass” video, “Meet the Press” host David Gregory interviews historian Doris Kearns Goodwin about the new “Lincoln” movie, which Obama screens at the White House today upon his arrival from New York.
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Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.”
Napoleon Bonaparte
Old Redneck Daddyism “You can’t fix a mistake till you realize that you’ve made one”.
How in the heck do you’ll Yahoo’s figger on fixing a mistake when you won’t admit that you made one and then double down on the mistake that got you in this fix in the first place.
I am thrilled to see the GNOP hasn't learned a damn thing after the shellacking they took last week!
60% of the country WANT tax increases on the wealthy, while Boehner & his gofers continue to JUST SAY NO!
Luke Russert should be ashamed of his conduct at Nancy Pelosi's news conference yesterday!
While Chuckie "T" continues to *hug* his *wiggle room* meme... lol
The two of them should update their resumes and send them to NewsforDumbFux, I hear they are hiring!
Any guesses how long it will be before we see old Willard hawking Cialis?
We got what we wanted. The President of the United States, Barack Obama, a cool, deliberate, measured man, who has at his core, fire and steel. For four years, he carefully parsed his language, spoke of compromise, of working together. He offered proposals once espoused by Republicans, only to be told by those same Republicans that they were no longer acceptable. Republicans abused the filibuster in the Senate and refused to keep their promises in the House of Representatives. They lied repeatedly about the President.
But it was safe for Republicans to lie. If the President called them out as liars, if he dared to tell the bald truth about their obstruction, he faced the risk of being labeled an angry black man. That didn't matter anyway. There was absolutely nothing the President could do that was going to appease a very substantial racist element in the G.O.P.
Now, President Obama has won a second term. Democrats have added seats to their Senate majority. They have reduced the Republican majority in the House in spite of Republican gerrymandering. Yet, despite their losses, Republicans claim a mandate to continue obstruction and to continue lying. This is no longer the party of Lincoln. It is the party of LINC - Low-Intellect, No Class.
The President no longer has to worry about being called an "angry black man". He is not. Like the majority of Americans who gave him their vote, he is a frustrated AMERICAN. Yes, we now have Obamacare, the greatest piece of civil rights legislation since the 60's. The Supreme Court upheld the law. Obamacare will not be repealed. Every single right wing assault on civil rights has been beaten down. Women still control their own bodies. Voting rights have largely been preserved. Tax cuts will expire. Defense spending will be cut. Virtually all Republican sacred cows have been butchered.
The Party of LINC has a collective tantrum. Like petulant third-graders they throw themselves on the floor and scream, "Secession," too stupid to remember the Civil War. "Impeachment," they rail. The pouting twins, John McCain and Lindsey Graham, threaten to stop a Presidential appointment that hasn't even been proposed, and they have the nerve to talk about trust. Mitch McConnell, the quintessential welfare queen, threatens further obstruction. John Boehner can't control his majority.
In spite of setbacks on every front, Republicans insist the problem is they just didn't go far enough; their positions were not sufficiently extreme. They can go further, and why not? Aren't they tough? Aren't their opponents weak and unwilling to fight? No, as a matter of fact, they are sick of gridlock, they are tired of obstruction, and they've had their fill of lies. They are ready to fight AND win.
G.O.P. obstruction will meet raw strength and power this time around. The nation moves forward with compromise, or Republicans will be destroyed in 2014.
Hi Feisty: I too am thinking that right leaning Chuck Todd should send his resume to Fox News. He certainly is biased.
And Luke Russert should know better than ask Nancy Pelosi a question that is definitely age discrimination. He definitely should publically apologize to Ms. Pelosi.
I'm wondering how long it will be before we ever see Willard. It may be quite a while.
Jindal thinks he is the next Presidential nominee for the Republican Party. He does not realize that his insistence that creationism be taught in the schools, and his neanderthal views of social issues will keep that from happening.
President Obama: you received a mandate from the American people. The Republicans are running scared. But be prepared, they are like vipers, the more scared they become, the more they lash out at everyone, especially those that are not old and male. Could be entertaining!
McCain: time for you to retire. You have disgraced yourself since your campaign for the Presidency and the rejection by the American electorate. Policy by revenge is never good, and just makes you look like a sour old old man.
I have to defend Luke Russert. I understand what he meant his question to be. Is it time for the boomers to make way for the younger generation? Each generation asks this of the older one. I thought Pelosi's reaction was a bit over the top. It was a legitimate question.
John McCain, get out of the Senate you incompetent arrogant bitter man who is incapable of telling the truth. Everything with him is personal.
First Read: It’s very hard to separate the personal from the professional (especially when McCain supported the other Rice -- Condi -- despite intelligence failures that happened under her watch). McCain and his party have now lost twice to Obama, and that frustration shows.
Steve Benen, The Maddow Blog
As a top official in the Bush/Cheney administration, Condoleezza Rice said wildly untrue things about Iraq to the American people. Soon after, she received bipartisan support to become Secretary of State.
As a top official in the Obama/Biden administration, Susan Rice said entirely credible things about Benghazi based on the collective judgment of the intelligence community. Soon after, Republican Sens. John McCain and Lindsey Graham launched a smear campaign against Rice to prevent her from becoming Secretary of State.
Zeke Miller highlights the disconnect from Graham...
[I]n 2005, Graham was fiercely protective of Rice as she faced confirmation to take over the State Department, chaffing at terms used by Democratic lawmakers to describe her testimony. "The words like 'misleading' and 'disingenuous,' I think, were very unfair," Graham said on Fox News.
Asked if then-Sen. Mark Dayton's use of the word "liar" was justified, Graham pounced. "Yes, that's even more unfair. Because it was all in terms of weapons of mass destruction and misleading us about the war and what was in Iraq. Well, every intelligence agency in the world was misled. And to connect those two to say that she's a liar is very unfair, over the line."
...and from McCain.
"So I wonder why we are starting this new Congress with a protracted debate about a foregone conclusion," he said [in 2005], adding that Rice is qualified for the job. "I can only conclude that we are doing this for no other reason than because of lingering bitterness over the outcome of the election."
When Condoleezza Rice lied about WMD, McCain said she had unquestionable "integrity." When Susan Rice told the truth about Benghazi, McCain said she's guilty of "not being very bright." The former received McCain's support; the latter received McCain's contempt.
It's troublesome when partisan hacks launch smear campaigns against public officials who don't deserve it, but it's especially offensive when partisan hacks launch lazy smear campaigns based on blisteringly stupid, painfully dishonest arguments.
_________________
Sen. McCain, Condoleezza Rice and foreign policy shouldn't be uttered in the same sentence.
David Axelrod: "Sen McCain had plenty of time today for a demagogic presser on Benghazi, but none to attend a classified briefing on it?"
Tweet all over the internet:
Susan Rice, Valerie Jarrett, Van Jones, Eric Holder, Shirley Sherrod <--Obama staffers targeted by GOP. What do they have in common?
The democrats created the fiscal cliff by putting Patty Murray in charge of the super committee. She was put there to insure that nothing got done. You aholes created it so you aholes need to fix it. Good luck America in the next four years. I think the jobless report today tells the real story of where we are headed.
Pat Boston - Your President sent Susan Rice out to lie to all of us. Blame him. Answer to your question, they are all liars for President Barack Obama.
Hi Pat:
Both Senators McCain and Graham should be ashamed of themselves. McCain still has not recovered from losing to President Obama and Graham is being stupid if he wants to have civil contact with our President.
I couldn't agree more Ron!
There is a time and a place for everything, at the announcment with neither...
During yesterday's White House press conference, NBC's Chuck Todd tried to pin President Obama down on taxes. "Is there no deal at the end of the year if tax rates for the top 2 percent aren't the Clinton tax rates, period? No ifs, ands, or buts?" Todd went on to ask whether the president was prepared to draw "a red line."
Obama did not, saying instead he's "open to new ideas," and if lawmakers "have a great idea for us to raise revenue, maintain progressivity, make sure the middle class isn't getting hit, reduces our deficit, encourages growth, I'm not going to just slam the door in their face." It led some to suggest the president is already inching towards a major concession, but there's another way to look at this.
These comments came in response to a separate question from Jessica Yellin, who noted that Obama gave Republicans the extension they wanted two years ago, and asked whether the president might accept new revenue from the wealthy through closed loopholes and fewer deductions, rather than higher rates.
Obama said 2010 was "a one-time proposition," and made his position unambiguous: "What I'm not going to do is to extend Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest 2 percent that we can't afford, and according to economists, will have the least positive impact on our economy."
This wasn't laying the groundwork for caving; this was giving Republicans a homework assignment they can't complete.
http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/11/15/15187669-obama-presents-the-gop-with-a-tax-challenge?lite
Why is John McCain rattling the cage again? Why can't he put his ego aside for once and work with the President?
McCain isn't all that impressive, in my opinion. As a naval cadet, he graduated 894 out of his class of 899 at Annapolis. His dad was always there to pave the way for him.
He ditched his first wife after her crippling car accident and had an affair with his current wife... so he can't really point fingers at the current generals and their scandals, can he?
During the 2008 presidential campaign, McCain lost badly by attacking Obama and misjudging the state of the U.S. economy, trying to suspend his campaign to deal with the crisis (while Obama understood that a president has to handle more than one crisis at a time and went ahead with his campaign).
Worst of all, McCain chose Sarah Palin as his running mate, potentially putting her a heartbeat away from the Presidency of the United States of America.
How can we trust the judgment of McCain?
Where is Colin Powell? Oh, right. He's no longer supporting the right wing agenda. I'd like to see him back in the cabinet. Powell is a man we can trust and admire.
McCain needs to get over himself already.
Ron, we (well, not me) get to see McCain on MTP.
The same guy who gave us Sarah Palin and the Iraq War.
Willard's dumb a$$ statement is more proof that the smarter and wiser man, President Obama won the election.
McCain's Continuing Fall from Grace. Last night, Lawrence O'Donnell provided an excellent "rewrite" of the hypocrisy of both Senators John McCain and Lindsay Graham. These two "little men" ignore their own full endorsement of and vote for Condaleeza Rice for Secretary of State despite her failure as National Security Advisor, despite her "mushroom clouds" over the United States because Iraq would launch a missle to drop a bomb here, despite her spewing lies about WMDs and Iraq, despite the massive intelligence failure regarding 9/11 when she was in charge of NSA.
Little Lindsay and John have a personal vendetta against President Obama and anyone associated with his administration. Their latest target is UN Ambassador Susan Rice who is not in charge of security at embassies, not in charge of the CIA, not in charge of providing funds for the State Department and had absolutely nothing to do with any CIA or State Department decisions made regarding Benghazi. Yet because she appeared on the Sunday talk shows reporting the intelligence as had been provided to her based on what we knew at the time, Little John and Little Lindsay have decided to make her their latest scapegoat. Both McCain and Graham have lied when they made their claims about what Rice stated, they ignore the facts as much as the rest of the GOPTP.
John McCain said Susan Rice is "not too bright". Really, McCain? Rice is a Rhodes Scholar, not to mention McCain picked Sarah Palin to be a heartbeat away from the presidency. McCain sounds like John Sununu blowing dog whistles.
John McCain and his best buddy, Lindsay, remain angry that McCain lost in 2008. Their personal attacks on individuals are not based on reality but rather on revenge. What a sad thing to watch these past four years: John McCain, respected Vietnam POW hero falls from grace into a puddle of vengeful bitterness and hate. The problem for McCain and Graham is that they cannot accept the evidence given as the truth; they know the truth but it does not suit their narrative. How sad to see two angry, bitter men seeking happiness in revenge but they will never find grace again.
Wow, gremlins are really at work today. Nothing like repeating and repeating but at least I could delete this one and edit the duplications in #1.13!!!
Jody - keep repeating yourself, you may start to believe it some day.
Typical lib, blame it on gremlins. NO - it is you.
Lawrence O'Donnell nailed it:
Sen. Graham has become the new Joe McCarthy and because of this his lies cannot stand.
But the media will allow his lies to stand according to Lawrence.
Bet money on it. Lawrence is 100% correct.
Bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran
______________
Jody, didn't see your post before I wrote mine. Lawrence was astounding in his anger last night. Glad he articulated what we all feel right now about Graham and McCain.
Two of the biggest liars in the Senate.
Poopyhead speaks and we're all surprised when poop pops out. With all this dissecting of the electorate I'm wondering about dog owners, how did they vote? Snake owners? Victoria Secret Moms? I think we're much more interesting than Walmart moms.
McCain proved what a failure he is by picking that know nothing hillbilly Sarah Palin.
The Benghazi incident deserves a thorough investigation and is getting one. However for elected officials to accuse anyone of lying if they do not agree with inflammatory remarks formulated by college drop-outs on Fox news whom I doubt have ever been to the middle east is - to say the least - irresponsible.
The only mistake the White House can be accused of at this time is transparency in releasing real-time intelligence which now appears incorrect. Perhaps waiting until the facts are all on the table would be more prudent than proclaiming a conspiracy. A conspiracy to do what?
Sean Hannity should reveal his sources; especially why the President would have anything to gain by the death of the Ambassador, though in fairness to Hannity, he is very busy trying to prove voter fraud right now.
"WAAAAAA, whines Romney. Obama cheated. He gave everything to the Blacks, Latinos and Young. That's the only reason he beat me by one of the biggest LANDSLIDES in history. It wasn't fair, it was my turn".
Sorry Willard, but your big mistake was not tell the people WHAT you were going to do, but rather how wonderful you were and how deserving. Loser. So back to La Jolla ( actually we call it BAJA LA JOLLA), it's what as known locally as SEAL BEACH. Go have fun with your new elevator and do us all a favor and STAY OUT OF POLITICS.
Morning, dears. I was appalled and flabbergasted when I heard about Romney doubling down on the 47%. But isn't doubling down what he's good at (besides lying his pants off)? It appalled me, but didn't surprise me. I agree that his comments are proof that we "dodged a bullet" when President Obama was re-elected. I just can't imagine the economic MESS that we would have found ourselves in had Romney been elected.
The other Republicans who are speaking out trying to make extreme positions even more extreme amuse me in a way. They are making themselves even less palatable to the American Public and assuring that they won't be relevant to Domestic or Foreign policy for a very long time to come. They learned nothing from the elections and refuse to look inward at what the extreme elements are doing to their party. It saddens me that Republicans seem determined to make sure that Independents will continue to avoid them while their party dies off from irrelevancy. We need a GOOD two party system in order to make sure that all sides are heard from. Unfortunately, that does not appear to in our future for a while.
As far as the secession clamor ... those people really are acting worse than my 6 year old son when he doesn't get his way. Temper tantrums in a child in Kindergarten are unattractive enough, but in supposed adults they are ludicrous. There will be no secession since it has been made illegal. I really hope that the lunatic fringe doesn't try to start an armed conflict which will propel us into another Civil War. Haven't we lost enough men and women to war over the last 11 years?
Obama parsed his language, spoke of compromise, of working together. Or put another way he spoke in platitudes, cheer leading, and broken and confusing promises.
Great! So now, The GOP is going to lose the little old lady vote. Way to go guys! See if you can't piss off some more voters.
How old was Strom Thurmond? LMAO!
AnaBanana-1782128 ... You haven't been watching the right Walmart moms... goto www.peopleofwalmart.com to check out the selections available... heh heh
NinjaMan,
Please pass the bleach....MY EYES! OH MY EYES!
Now those "babes" are what Willard calls his base! lmfao
http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/
Independent Redneck (in a Blue State, mind you),Were you talking about the nomination of Romney as the 2012 GOP candidate?
Or maybe the Grand Old Party's seduction of the Tea Party in 2010?
Or perhaps the love affair with Right Wing talk radio?
How about the conjugal relationship with FOX NEWS?
Gotta be one of these indiscretions, no?
Republicans are nothing less than the political whores of the modern era.
Sleep well, boys.
California,
Biggest landslides?? Yeah, right...
Liberal friends, enjoyed your thoughtful opinions and factual posts.
As for Luke Russert, Nancy Pelosi and the women on that stage handled his question beautifully and with humor while pointedly scolding Luke. Luke is young, he's learning and no doubt he learned a big lesson yesterday and one he is not likely to repeat: do not ask women about age when you do not ask older men the same questions. I'll give him a pass on this for his "youth and inexperience".
As for Chuck Todd's repeated meme "wiggle room", the only "wiggle room" given was President Obama saying he will listen to all ideas, that's all--being willing to listen to ideas is what we should expect from any president. President Obama is wise, he knows to never say never especially to the press which is too often in the "gotcha" business instead of the honest reporting business.
When I turned on TV this morning, there was Mike Barnacle speculating about why Susan Rice appeared on those Sunday shows. I didn't listen long before turning it off again but Barnacle implied it was because everyone else was out campaigning. What shallow thinking. When an administration has candidates in mind to replace a resigning cabinet member, it is logical that said candidate be put on the public stage to introduce that person to a wider audience. Think about it Mr. Barnacle.
JH lotsanumbers:
Do you people never stop lying? The House of Representatives was and still is under the control of Republicans. That is where sequestration originated, and now Republicans are decrying the fact that they made a mess.
What Senator Murray is doing is telling Republicans they're damned well going to live with the mess they made, and it's going to cost them to clean it up. What's the problem JH? That's negotiating. You just can't get used to the idea that a Democrat - and one of those damned uppity women, to boot - is kicking the G.O.P.'s collective ass.
Susan Rice did not lie. As President Obama clearly explained she reported the information she had at hand. Information on the Benghazi incident is still incomplete. You live in TV world, where all crimes are solved in one hour - including commercials, where all incidents are cast in black-and-white. That's not how it is in the real world.
Four people died. Really died. They won't be back in another TV episode. The bad guys used real weapons. The chaos was real; not special effects, and you simpletons think a full and complete report should be available right after the next commercial break.
Good Morning everybody. It's a beautiful, crisp, Fall morning out here on the prairie and I think it's a good time to count our blessings as we head into the Thanksgiving Holiday.
1. It's 2012 and George Bush is no longer the President. That's a big one in my book.
2. It's 2012 and Mitt Romney is not the President-elect. Another biggee for me.
3. Barack Obama has made history again by his re-election in an electoral college landslide. 332 vs 206. That's a big win, a mandate and a blessing for the nation.
Well, that's about it for me. I love my new Jazz Guitar almost as much as I love my wife of 34 years and I'm glad to see America back on the right track. My faith in our country and the majority of my fellow countrymen and women is restored and I am optimistic about our future. The pathway to the 21st Century looks good for us and the US.
Let's stop and realize just what We The People accomplished last week. Despite the 24/7 propagandists of right-wing radio and Fox News. Despite the hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars donated by the super-rich to those Rovian super pacs. Despite the near impossible odds the people of the United States of America said "NO" to the propaganda, the super pacs, and to Karl Rove in particular. We The People, stepped back from the precipice and chose a different path and I am thankful for that.
Bob Dylan was right 50 years ago, the times, they are a-changing and all for the better.
John McCain needs to sit down and shut up. His time is past. Let's not forget his VP choice. We The People rejected him four years ago.
Mitt Romney needs to go back to the Caymans and count his money. He's yesterday's news We The People rejected him as well.
The GOP especially, and Congress in general, need to shut up and get to work. We expect compromise, we expect progress. We are tired of their constant bickering and 24/7/365 campaign rhetoric. Hush, and do the jobs you were hired to do. We the people, have spoken.
Wow 60% of the nation wants tax increases on the top earners. What a surprise that people who would be unaffected by the increase are in favor of it for someone else. Good lesson from the last election, class warfare works. Also, talking in big numbers work. Such as claiming that Republicans that oppose this tax increase are giving the top earners a trillion dollar tax break. But of course that is over 10 years, so ultimately raising these taxes will only generate 100 billion per year and we are running 1.2 trillion in annual deficits. They should do a poll of Obama supporters to find out what percentage think allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire on the top earners will balance the budget. Appearances and not solutions is another big lesson from the last election.
I hope you libbies who voted for Obama have all gotten your free gifts for voting for him like Romney said you would. I already got MY gift: a federal government run by a competent president and one that is free of Mitt Romney.
Hi, skip. Lots to be thankful for this Thanksgiving for sure.
Would love to be at the Romney table to hear them defend their own right to rule.
Glad it is over, and hope you and the family are well.
I have a different take on McCain and Graham. They are trying to appear to make big trouble for the President on Benghazi because they know they will have to deal on immigration and budget matters and they are afraid that they will be lambasted by right wing media and Tea Party for that.
This is about street cred in the insane Tea Party world.
Watching the President's press conference yesterday, the phrase "only adult in the room" kept running through my mind.
Note to journalists: I know you have a job to do, but, why do you have to be so whiny? Compared to the President, the press look like people who didn't get into their first choice of college. McCain and Graham look even worse.
Hey John McCain -- you LOST 4 years ago. Get over it. Had you been nominated in 2000, I would have voted for you. But since then I've last all respect for you. You sucked up to George W. Bush and became a simply another Republican interested more in party than the nation. The final straw was your Palin as your VP. After that you have the nerve to talk about a possible nominee for Secretary of State being unqualified? Today -- you're nothing more than a bitter, nasty old man.
As for your buddy Lindsey Graham --- I remember listening to his whining when was a House Manager during the impeachment trial. Since then -- not much has changed. He's still a whiner. When you leave the Senate -- take him with you.
Interesting how most of the "swing" states wanted smaller government and voted for Obama. Talk about misplaced faith.
John McCain was born in Panama. Maybe that's why he's so un-American.
Uh... should we leave it up to the top earners to decide if they need a tax increase?
www.kleenex.com ?
Your ilk lost because you are out of touch. Plain and simple. Make all the excuses you want but you lost because we dont live in 1912 anymore. We live in 2012.
Mike,
We lost because a vast number of society take more from society than contribute. When you spend more than you take in, you will never pay off your debt. Raising the taxes on the wealthy is a drop in the bucket. Let's talk real tax reform. Eliminate the deductions that cost America the most...mortgage interest deduction, property tax deduction, earned income credit, plus also eliminate the loopholes for the wealthy... I'm not in favor of raising tax rates, but how about we get rid of the inequities at all income levels of these "deductions" and credits...
PatBoston, you do realize obama has set a new precedent? You blame your predecessor forever and never ever ever take the blame yourself. So, by the actions and words of Comrade obama we can officially put all the blame for 9/11/01 squarely on monica's honey, billy boy!
Congratulations are in order! Congratulations Mr. President under YOUR administration poverty is at an all time high! 50 million Americans are in poverty. 16.1%. Constituency by dependency, all hail Obama! It's nice to see President Panderer finally make it back to visit Sandy victims.
DBAkron
Lotsa people want smaller government until they need help and then their tune quickly changes. Right, Gov. Christie?
Skip & others-
I too am very thankful and relieved that we did not elect Mott Romney as President. While John McCain worried me because of his age and his VP choice, Romney flat-out scared the hell out of me.
Romney's lack of knowledge of foreign affairs and his blustering approach to diplomacy could have led us into another war and cost us American lives. His disdain for the 47% and everyone except old white men became even more apparent after his latest comments.
A Romney victory by even a miniscule margin would have led to a declaration of an undisputed mandate, and fiscal cliff negotiations would have been ugly.
We are immeasurably better off with Barack Obama as our President.
Hi Dawn, nice to hear from you. You are another blessing in my life.
KB-yeah and you know why McCain was born in Panama? Because his father, ADMIRAL John McCain, Sr. was stationed there. Panama was considered a "Siberian" assignment by the US Navy. A penal colony where screw-ups too big to fire got sent to do penance. I'll bet there are some interesting stories about how the Admiral earned that posting.
Here's one possibility:
After the disaster at Savo Island in August of '42 Admiral McCain's handling of the air wing of the armed forces in that debacle came under severe criticism. Admiral Bode, the commander of the Heavy Cruiser USS Chicago and the former commander of the USS Oklahoma was sent to Panama for his actions in the battle and he committed suicide. I wonder if Admiral McCain was his successor? The timing would be about right.
Maybe the Senator should just sit down, be quiet and do the job we hired him to do, hmmmm?
Happy Thanksgiving Dawn and everybody else, and I DO mean everybody. We've got a lot to be thankful for in this country.
Romney never mentioned his $5 Trillion "gift" he was trying to give the rich.
Too bad there are more middle-class voters than rich ones, Republicans.
The middle-class wants programs that will better every American, NOT the RICH ELITE, who think the middle-class owes them for everything and who think they don't have a responsibility in the world.
Vote Democrat, We're not perfect but the GOP is nuts.
FR:
The GOP wants to raise more revenue by closing unspecified loopholes at an unspecified time in the future. In other words, never. The GOP is still the party of NO when it comes to the middle class, but when it comes to the their wealthy donors, they're the party of "YES, Master."
"Interesting how most of the "swing" states wanted smaller government and voted for Obama."
What's even more interesting is what Republicans don't get. People LOVE big government. People love their Social Security, their Medicare, their interstate highways, their airports, their safe food, their cleaner air, their national parks, all the stuff government hands out to them. It's PAYING for big government they don't like. When Republicans campaign on taking away some of this big government stuff, they lose. They win when they tell you they can give you all this free stuff and do it for less money.
skip; that was a lovely thing to say, and I feel the same about you. You have always been a blessing, someone I really enjoying reading and chatting with here.
Happy Thanksgiving to all!
I don't recall what question was asked yesterday or the exact answer but President Obama basically said that if he had done what was suggested in the question, the press would have been criticizing him and asked why he didn't do the opposite.
That same logic applies to just about everything these days especially Benghazi, especially considering the multiple, volent protests occuring in many middle eastern countries over some American numnuts idiotic video. Had the Obama administration kept silent and not disclosed what they knew already, stayed off the Sunday programs, not answered question--as incomplete as it was, the American people, the press, Congress would have been ranting about being kept in the dark. The administration released the information as it came in knowing that new information and new facts would likely differ from previous information. Despite that, we have the GOPers in congress, the press throwing hissy fits for being kept informed based on day to day changes and do not doubt these same people would have thrown hissy fits for not being kept informed.
It is the old saying, darned if you do and darned if you don't. The problem I have with the GOPer's witch hunts and finger pointing is the failure to recognize that the goal should not be someone to blame but rather determining what happened, who did it, why, what could we have done differently and how to prevent another such incident in the future. That should be Congress's goal but GOPers like McCain and Graham are not really interested in the truth or in preventing future incidents but simply in laying blame on the Obama Administration, and they do not care whose reputation they smear in the process of their scapegoating. That's just wrong and they should be ashamed of themselves.
Why does the guvment need more money?
Thanks Tennvol, I agree whole-heartedly and I'm with you Houston. I got my gift on election day and what a gift it was, four more years of sane and sound governance. Can't beat that.
But one thing is troubling me Houston. If Oklahoma and Texas secede from the United States where are we gonna go? How about we meet up in New Mexico? The wife and I love New Mexico. Maybe we could get a couple places out North of Santa Fe and hob-nob with celebrities like Robert Redford and Carol Burnett. That sounds cool. Maybe Redford would hire me to work on his Sundance film festival. Who knows?
C-ya'll
Romney's sour grapes trying to spin his crushing loss is illuminating of his character. Did you see actions or words like these from Al Gore or John Kerry? No. The GOP can chose to learn from their mistaken policies and moderate their fringe elements or they can continue to lurch further to the right. As tempting as it would be to see the GOP become a regional "minor" party, the country needs them to show leadership.
The House and the Senate republicans have a test to complete during this Lame duck session, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. However, if they fail to help the President or give an inch to compromise we will know their decision. Should the republicans continue to be petulant, should the Tea Party ranting continue the first action Reid should do is change the filibuster rules lowering the threshold to 55. Then in 2014 when the GOP needs to protect more seats then the democrats and the Do nothing house is up for reelection the Blue wave will be crushing.
Today is a day to be remembered, we have seen the end of Mitt Romney and soon very soon we will see the end of the Tea Party itself.
The Tea-Loonies in congress are the ones that threaten to tip the nation into another recession for the 1% tax cuts for the mega rich, it's time to vote them all out for a better America.
Many thought Romney appeared the fool due to pandering to the "tea party" fools of His party. Guess His statements prove what so many of us thought; He really is nothing more than a natural fool. Now, let us consider another, more obvious fool; one John McCain. This historically, self aggrandizing, reckless, little man, who has been allowed to run about, playing the role of a national intellectual, and all around expert on all things war and peace, is really beginning to annoy waay too many, who look for a better day. We should encourage the continued romance between the old, rusty assed fart, and His turkey necked suitor, Mr. Graham, but at the same time, we need to let both know, their fanciful antics, while cute to some, have little to do with the overwhelming, freshly established, national agenda, amply revealed by the recent election. Al Franken's ass is closer to being a soda cracker factory than McCain/Graham have ever been to the knoll of intellectual honesty.
Keith Boykin:
Rice was a valedictorian, Phi Beta Kappa at Stanford, Truman Scholar, Rhodes Scholar, and Ph.D from Oxford. Sarah Palin, not so much.
______________________
She's smarter than Graham and McCain. Combined.
geo #1.53, why do you need more money ???
You mean the disproportionate amount of red states that take in more money than they pay? That part of society? If thats why you think you lost - you are in for many loses going forward.
Right - eliminate mortgage interest deductions so it screws every middle class person in the country that doesnt own their house yet. Sorry - that and the child credit need to stay. I do agree that a persons tax liability should never drop below zero.
JK1963 -- You lost because Republicans are out of touch with the majority of Americans.
Americans want our fiscal house put in order not destroyed.
Americans want reasonable regulations that rein in Wall Street, banks and polluters.
Americans want access to affordable healthcare.
Americans don't want government to control our personal lives.
Americans care about the quality of an education and couldn't stand
to see Republicans dumb it down by ignoring science and arithmetic.
In other words, we want smart people running our government
Now do you understand, JK? Wake up buddy!
Now we have the media trying to blame the soaring unemployment claims on the hurricane. When that is simply not the case. When will they realize that the more they kiss Obama's butt, the deeper the nation sinks into the abyss?
No, Mr. Obama, the outrageous part is that you sent S Rice on to all those talk shows to lie to the American people. So if you don't want her to be attacked for those lies just man up and admit to the American people that you told her to spread those lies. Until then I expect the members of the House and the Senate to continue pressing for the truth.
President Obama should kick John McCain's soiled azz back to Arizona and then construct a fence around that State of LoonyToons.
If the Republicans were smart ??????, they would take the Grover Norquist pledge and burn it in front of the Capitol.
The Dems are so stupid they voted for a guy that spends most of his time in the mental ward and now he has his hand out, like a typical "entitlement" freak, asking for the taxpayers to pay him for his "disability", when he should be in jail for election fraud.
Apparently My home state, Florida is one of the seven that are being reviewed for secession. That's quite interesting, since we voted for Obama. If Florida secedes, will I become a citizen of Cuba? The Bahamas?
If the Republicans were smart ??????, they would Cleanse the Tea Hate-Baggers from the party.
I disagree somewhat. I think the situation is somewhat more complex than that. The concession speech - that was a rare moment when we saw the real Mitt Romney, a very gracious and considerate man, stunned by his defeat, but a man who obviously loved his country and wanted it to progress.
I also think that he has fully capitulated to the Republican machine and takes marching orders from them. Throughout most of the campaign, we saw the vicious and divisive Mitt Romney because he was a mouthpiece for the Angry Old Men establishment. The same sees to be true with yesterday's conference call.
My vote for Obama would not have been any different. We don't need a President who is owned by an establishment, a President who doesn't go back to a group of mostly unknown people for marching orders.
But being a human being is a complex thing and I think this seems to be a theory that fits the schizoid behavior Mr Romney has been exhibiting.
Just because you don't understand something that Ms Rice said doesn't mean that she's lying. It just means that you don't understand what's going on. Nothing else.
Liberals are so hateful. You won and still you act like a bunch of spoiled children.
Fiesty, You are nothing but a hateful person. You should have been banned from this board a long time ago. No one else's fault you are obviously a miserable person.
It looks like the Tea loonies in Congress are holding back our recovery for the greedy 1% tax haters.
Off topic but my chuckle this morning is Austin, Texas saying it wants to secede from Texas since Texas wants to secede from the US. The citizens of Austin say they can stand as a state - apart from Texas and they have no desire to secede. LOL!!!!
fuzzy - I was surprised at the states wanting to secede until I found out the same thing happened after the 2004 and 2008 elections. Apparently every election year the idiots go crazy! No different this year. And, no, you can join one of the other states - don't have to go to Cuba!
Griff999 - My my! And your comments are so "nice?" Can you even spell HYPOCRITE????
jan- Many Republicans have denounced their pledge to Norquist and a number of the newly elected are refusing to sign one. Apparently they aren't ALL dumb!
Typical Feisty Redhead...just gloss over the numbers you don't want to hear. Sure, it says a majority of people polled want a tax on the wealthy, but it also states thast a majority of the people want to repeal all/some of Obamacare. No comments on that???
Hey guys I cannot believe I woke up this morning, I was sure that the sky would fall by now if the president got elected.
Those on the right still complaining, just stop you lost. What is sad is after that loss you have not abandoned any of your extreme stances. I see many talking about how the country is polarized, which is true, rather than trying to compromise the right seem to throw temper tantrums.
Too add insult to injury, they blame in on the left and our divisive President. You know, right as they are signing that pettition to secede from the union. When will you wake up...
@ Seeking, I'm all for that! Austin is one of the few places in Texas I enjoy travelling to. The rest of it can become Texico if it wants to. Bye Bye Loonies!
Griff,
Hmmm... I wonder which category YOU fall into..? lol
It would be nice to see that Pumpkin-Head alcoholic go down the toilet, vote Mr. Boner out.
6 billion dollars spent and we have status quo.
Boehner still leads the House.
Reid still leads the senate.
And Obama is still flying AF1.
America voted for more of the same gridlock.
How @!$%#ing stupid is that? And you Democrats think this is victory.
No mandates were given to Obama, at least not any different from the mandate given to the House Republicans to obstruct further.
We remain divided and still calling each other names. Great job Obama, the Great Uniter! NOT!
More taxes and more spending. How's it going to play out?
More jobs for Americans?
We are @!$%#ed.
It looks like an abrupt end is coming to the GOP black-mail.
Great news. Unemployment is down, but....
The ranks of America's poor edged up last year to a high of 49.7 million,
That came as more people in the slowly improving economy picked up low-wage jobs last year but still struggled to pay living expenses.
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/49-7-million-americans-poverty-census-bureau-says-1C7073315?gt=43001
Raising taxes on business owners will not improve wages. But tariffing will.
@ Wayne,
To be more specific, a majority of people voted to mandate that someone else's taxes go up, but not theirs. They want those to go down.
Who's acting like a hateful spoiled child?
My guy lost so, I'll insult Feisty! Waaaaaahhhh! CRYBABY!
David Walker
You are about as clueless as they come. Do you even remember the "SUPER COMMITTEE". Patty Murray was the lead person in that committee. She wasn't chosen for that position by Republicans. She is responsible for the failure. Or is it the fact that when a dem is the person in charge it is always the repubs fault when things don't work out????? Get a clue. You are so full of it with your BS. And do you even have a clue how the Sunday talk shows work? Did Susan Rice just call up and say she wanted to be on? Do you think that maybe, just maybe, they have to tape some of those shows? Or does she just run from one TVset to another? And as President Obama said, she just relayed what informationn she had. Well she has pure BS and lies. Who gave her the information? Obama is the reason she lied. Blame the failure President Obama for her failure.
Byron Ramm, I COMPLETELY agree with your assessment of Romney. I felt the entire campaign it seemed as if he was pretending to be somebody. I think that was why he was unable to connect with so many Americans, and also the reason why there was such a largest number of gaffes.
I thought deep down he was most likely a decent person, however, it did not seem like he would ever lay down the "act". Someone who is that easily influenced was not someone I wanted to govern.
McCain and Graham are a disgrace and a dishonour to this Country, these two clowns are a disservice to America. Their disregard for this nation is irresponsible, they are an insult to America.
JH maybe you should take a nap you sound restless.
The information was wrong. It was admitted it was wrong. What do you want, a beheading?
@Skip. I think you have your facts wrong, but don't let that stop some innuendo.
Actually, John McCain's father is Admiral John McCain Jr. not Sr.
lets just start with accountability.
Feisty, great quote from Eleanor Roosevelt. Thanks for proving that you indeed have a very small mind. 99% of your posts are nothing more than trashing people, namely all things republican; and worshiping a person, namely all things Obama.
What a pathetic little girl you are.
Akeem
Only libs nap through dems lies. The information was not just wrong, it was a lie. How many people were hurt because of the lie about a video that nobody really knew anything about until she was told to bring it up? When will President Obama send her out to all the Sunday talk shows with the truth? Maybe then she might be worthy of representing America in a higher position. Until then she is just another liar for this administration.
Caeser that would be a fair request if the right took any.
When you speak of the current economic climate and I mention Bush's name those on the right's heads explode. I am all for assigning accountability but I do not see the right taking any. In all that has happened in the last 20 or so years, I have rarely seen Republicans say they did anything wrong. One way or another it was always the left's fault.
JH lotsanumbers:
Did your rant somehow magically change the fact that the House of Representatives is was then, and is now, in the control of Republicans? How does Senator Murray's status change that fact?
You guys can't even deflect or evade competently.
@ Feisty: Good lady: You will always have my respect, and a warm place in my heart. You exemplify the honesty, healthy sexuality, warmth of Motherhood, intellectual depth, fidelity to loved ones, and all the doggedly admirable traits of American womanhood. You Ma'am, are quite the lady. Inspiring and loved by so very many, and so disliked by those who will never get close to your core of excellent virtue, which is, in itself, an admirable trait particular to you. No response from you is needed. I simply needed to say it. Best regards, Mac
Jan - I work for mine, sorry to say the guvment taketh from the earners and giveth to the takers!
Caesar Augustus-
and if we don't like what they come up with, then behead the accountants. My knitting needles are primed to go. Should be enough of them to get through socks, scarves and a sweater.
@David Walker
Woodward's book makes it pretty clear that sequestration was pushed by the White House, not the house Republicans.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obamas-fanciful-claim-that-congress-proposed-the-sequester/2012/10/25/8651dc6a-1eed-11e2-ba31-3083ca97c314_blog.html
How Ironic you say the right, who in the 'right' is currently POTUS? Bush had nothing to do with Benghazi. and Obama seems to have kept in place many of Bush's crappy policies. so it is his fault in some aspect, but Nero perfers his lyre to the flaming backdrop to recite his poetry. I blame Geo. Washington for the country's woes. Lets just skip past current events shall we. so the request is absolutely fair and the 'he did it first' sounds rather childish. enjoy Akeem
newday,
I didn't see the clip, but I thoroughly agree that the question needs to be asked. I have mixed feelings about Nancy Pelosi's effectiveness, and I do think it's time for new (young) blood to move up into leadership positions. Preferably, another woman.
I'm also in full agreement regarding your summation of Jindal. The guy is a creep. Imagine the ego he must have to believe he would be seriously considered for the presidency.
Feisty, you are just a sad miserable whor_#$.
Rational American - I love how you fix all the blame on the Democrats instead of where it belongs - on the obstructionists in Congress - the Republicans. DO NOT blame President Obama just because the Republicans ran a candidate who couldn't keep a stance on anything for more than a day. Look at your own party and try to figure out why they can't seem to get anything done - unless it benefits the top 1%.
Grow up! It is going to take all parties working together and as long as Republicans refuse to - we won't get anything done!
Mr. Steady and Obama the Great Divider - might want to take a look in the mirror!
i suggest a butter knife, but im not satisfied with the results of Fast and Furious. interesting i am told to accept it and if not its because 'im a poor sport'... It's starting to sound a bit Tyrannic wouldnt you say.
Susan Rice lied and repeated the lie many times. Now, her apparent reward for covering Obama's LIE is that he will reward her and give her a big promotion ! OH GOODY !!
"You cover my a$$ and I'll cover your a$$ "
IF, and I repeat IF (as Obama declared in his statements yesterday) she was only acting on the intelligence information she supposedly had at the time .... then who in the hell GAVE HER such bad intelligence ??? Why, even AFTER the Al Qaeda terrorist attack element was known, did Ms. Rice continue to spread the lies ??
Is it FRAUD by this administration or just GROSS INCOMPETENCE ??? Either way, Obama looked down, dodged the question again and tried ever so hard to sound "Presidential" while again falling back on the old and tired EXCUSE of an ongoing investigation.
How long will the investigation take ? Four more years ! Four more years !! Four more years !!!
Yes, the truth will be hidden, obfuscated, executive privilege invoked if needed ... just like the FAST and FURIOUS f_ck_p was derailed ! Obama and his minions will run from honesty whenever necessary to cover their political a$$e$ !! Four died, then Obama lied. The beat goes on !
Reality:
I think there are 2 numbers that our right wing friends need to familiarize themselves with while considering these negotiations regarding the fiscal 'cliff' and how they frame their arguments against them.
These numbers are 15.5 and 1.
15.5 is the percentage of GDP that is currently collected as revenue. A little more on this number later, but bear in mind that the last time the economy was healthy, this number was actually around 20.
1 is the percentage of GDP that corporations currently contribute as a percentage of GDP. Again, a bit more on this later, but bear in mind that the last time the economy was healthy, this number was actually around 3.
So when did these numbers change? Well, they actually reached their zenith in 2000, when revenues as a percentage of GDP hit their highest levels since 1945.
2000 9951.5 282.172 20.35 a
With revenues at this percentage of GDP, the budget was in balance and running a very small surplus. Subsequently, the legislature and the president decided to cut all tax rates for no compelling reason. I mean, there was no fiscal crisis facing the nation in 2001... well, other than the same debt crisis that faces us now... you know, the one that President Clinton and the Republican dominated congress had just essentially solved over the long term.
So then what happened? Well, this...
2002 10642.3 287.804 17.41 a
2003 11142.2 290.326 16.00 a
2004 11853.3 293.046 15.86 a
Within three years of having revenues as a percentage of GDP being the highest since 1944, after the Bush tax cuts, they were the lowest as a percentage of GDP since 1950. That is fact. Indisputable fact.
It is also true that in 2006-7, they rose back up to near 18%. And the right wing will shift the goalposts by telling us that 18% is the historical average. But remember, we are not talking about what is average, we are talking about the last time the economy was healthy. The truth is, since the tax cuts were passed, we haven't even been close to that number. But then, something else happened... the economic crash.
2009 13939 306.051 15.10 a
2010 14526.5 308.746 14.89 a
2011 projects to be 15.4. 2012 projects to be 15.5.
In other words, even if we achieve their stated goal of reducing federal spending to 20% of GDP, if we reach their revenue 'average' of 18%, we will still be running an ever-increasing deficit because the economy grows every year.
The reality is that ALL of the Bush tax cuts need to be allowed to expire. Either that or we need to approach the problem as the nation did in the first 3 decades after WWII, when a much larger share of the nations' revenue needs were shouldered by its corporations and much less was shouldered by its private citizens.
As a snapshot, the few times the nation has seen revenue as 20% of GDP has offered 2 different models:
In 1945, revenue was 20.4% of GDP with 8.3% coming from individuals, 7.2% coming from corporations, 2.8% coming from excise taxes, 1.6% SS revenues, and 0.5% coming from 'other.'
In 2000, revenue was similar at 20.6% of GDP with 10.2% coming from individuals, 2.1% coming from corporations, 6.6% SS revenues, 0.7% excise taxes, and 0.9% coming from 'other.'
Now, as a comparison:
In 2010 (the last year that can be fully verified), revenue was at 15.1% of GDP with 6.3% from individuals, 1.3% from corporations, 6.0% SS revenues, 0.5% excise taxes, and 1.0% from 'other.'
So after wading through these numbers, what conclusions can we draw?
Well, obviously, in 1945, the U.S. had far greater spending power in terms of being able to freely spend on what it wanted. Of the 20.4%, a full 18.8% was not tied directly to Social Security, which meant that a greater percentage of GDP was being utilized for things that were not tied down to a single program.
So even when the budget was balanced by 2000, the economic freedom of the government was much more constrained, of the 20.6% of GDP in revenue, only 14.0% was actually able to be used to pay for everything in the government that was not Social Security.
By 2010, it was much, much worse. By 2010, the government only had 9.1% of GDP available to pay for almost all of the government, less than half of what it had available in 1945.
Think about this the next time our right wing friends try to explain there is no revenue problem.
Our right wing friends will tell us time and again that 'there is no money.' This analysis reveals that simply isn't true. There is plenty of money. There is simply no money that they want to pay. A scant 12 years ago, we were on the path to paying down our national debt and squandered it for nothing, leaving us horribly positioned to handle the worst economic crisis in nearly a century. GDP is continuing to grow. Slowly and anemically, yes, but to grow. And their answer remains to be that the price of government should never go up because, I guess, unlike for everyone else in the world, for the U.S. government, the prices for goods and services will remain the same forever no matter how asinine that notion is.
Why?
I work for a major company who has a woman as CEO and President. I am not privy to this information but I assume she was the best candidate for the job, and she got the job because of this fact, not because she was a woman.
@Michael Thompson
I agree with your figures. Now continue your analysis of the projected spending if no changes are made to SS, Medicare and Medicaid. What is the % GDP of these three programs as the boomers retire. Will raising taxes on the top 2% be enough to cover these expenditures?
Alan in NJ -- Does it matter who brought it up? C'mon.
Fact is EVERYONE agreed to it. Period.
Republicans are always trying to find any excuse to blame
and obstruct instead of working for the good of the country.
They need to get to work and STFU.
I am still amazed at how many liberals simply ignore facts because they want to believe that we can cut the deficit and debt by taxing businesses and "the rich." When you raise taxes on business, you simply raise taxes on the middle class and poor. If the cost of steel rises, do auto makers have to increase prices? Of course they do and taxes are just a diferent kind of cost. The percentage of tax returns that pay 35% is less than .75% of all returns, that means that the remaining 99.25% of us pay almost all of the extra costs associated with increased taxes on business. Oh by the way, a good percentage of those that pay 35% tax rates are small businesses that file their business taxes with their personal taxes.
Some day you guys are going to have to pull your head out of the sand and realize that this fantasy that the DNC sells you that we can fix this problem and not make you pay one penny more is simply a lie. When you do that, get ready to vote Republican.
I did not mean to skip current events, I just do not like the idea of accountability on your terms. Accountability in the eyes of the Republicans now seem to be blame the Democrats for everything. Anything bad that happened was clearly at the hands of the Democrats, any thing good, well that would have just happened anyway.
Benghazi could have been handled better, it was an unfortunate tragedy no one wanted to happen. Do I think our politicians are lying to the public, no. They were relying on their best intel. You disagree with that. I am not sure what accountability needs to be taken if both sides do say the original intel was wrong... They admitted it was wrong.
Republicans seem to love having their cake and eating too, with a whole bunch of specialty flavored, tax break icing.
"In a conference call with his top donors yesterday, Mitt Romney blamed his defeat on the fact that President Obama and his administration were able to offer “gifts” to African-American, Latino, and young voters"
Consider this;
So why did the Democrats win the Presidency?
There are now 47 million families that get free food and cash aid, and they think the Democrats are responsible for 'giving' them that largess. At $550 per month average, that's about $300 Billion per year in 'freebies'.
These families are typically also the ones that get about $440 Billion per year in free health care (Medicaid - that figure comes from Obama's 2013 Budget projections).
That amounts to a total of about $740 Billion in 'free benefits' that these 47 million families get each year, which amount to about 70% of the $1.1 Trillion Deficit.
These people have become dependent upon the government, so they naturally will continue to vote for the Democrats. A cynic might suggest that the Democrats are 'buying votes with taxpayer funds', but of course that would be considered 'heartless towards those in need', or even 'racist'.
In addition, the Democrats keep promising 'Amnesty' for the 11 million illegal immigrants in this country, so the 12 million Hispanics that vote will naturally want to vote overwhelmingly in favor of the Democrats who promise to let their friends and relatives stay here and be eligible to work (competing with legal American workers).
Since Obama got about 62 million of the 120 million votes in this last election, but won by only about 3 million votes, this huge group that has become 'dependent' on the government will form a formidable voting block that will ensure the Democrats maintain power well into the future. So how many of the roughly 50 million families that have become dependent on the government voted for them for purely selfish reasons (Don't touch my benefits)? If only 3 million of the 50 million voted for continued 'free benefits' from the Democrats, that was enough to ensure a Democratic victory.
Ironically, even though these policies by the Democrats will drag down future economic growth and make everyone 'poorer' (witness the $5,000 (10%) drop in average family income over the last 4 years), this actually helps the Democrats win votes because it creates even more people that will become 'dependent on the government'.
All of this comes at a great cost (witness the $740 Billion per year spent on welfare and Medicaid above) and the huge cost to taxpayers of the massively growing Debt (which Obama's Budget projects to increase to almost $26 TRILLION within less than 10 years - even if he gets his 'tax increase on the wealthy'). But the 50 million families that get welfare and free medical care don't really care about that, because they know that 'someone else will have to pay for that' (those who actually pay income taxes).
And of course the Democrats will continue to 'play to their base' by claiming 'the rich don't pay their fair share', and the Republicans are 'heartless and racist'.
We are well on our way to the ruin that Greece brought upon itself.
the abuse many of you are putting on Feisty is way over the top and not only childish, but completely deflates your point of view. Keep the discussion to specific points of view without attacking an individual will benefit your point of view. "Obama the divider" what specific result do you expect to achieve by calling her a Whor_#. At best, a moronic post.
That being said, Fiesty don't you think that MAC is a little over the top? Jeez, someone has a stalker.....
CA ... Tyrannical you say ...
"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered by an occasional assassination."
Voltaire
KingK
The outrageous thing is that you continue to accuse the Obama administration of lying on Benghazi.
You really do need to listen to the Rice interviews that Sunday. I hear her clearly saying phrases such as "as far as we know" and "it appears". She carefully couched everything she said in terms that clearly indicated that no one was yet ready to reach a conclusion about what had happened at Benghazi Consulate.
There is still conflicting reports on the events of that fateful day in Benghazi. Were there demonstrations in Benghazi? Some witnesses say yes, some say no. The FBI investigation continues and definitive conclusions have yet to be determined except in the fact free world of Fox news and right wing hate rdio.
JH and Jim LotsaNumbers,
To make bald statements like this, when you have absolutely no proof that she lied, makes both of you sound very, very, very stupid. Neither of you are rational, thinking people. The Republican Party has succeeded in disparaging / discouraging education, while at the same time eliciting the support of a citizenry who are not very intelligent so as to play on their juvenile emotions--their hatred of others, their racism, their contempt of educated people.
Don't,
You mean a very slim majority wants what you want. By no means was this election a "mandate". ONLY in the mind of Obama. You claim that you want government out of your life, but you want the government to pay for your personal choices, right?
Mike,
I see that you cling to notion that it's fair to judge which people should have deductions and which ones shouldn't. Why is it screwing the middle class? Why should middle class homeowner get a deduciton when the person that rents doesn't get a deduction? Is that fair? Why do we let the treasury pass on all those tax dollars?? All these deductions should be gone. Only when we start making it fair for EVERYONE, and not jumping on the tax the rich bandwagon simply because they earn more and start consider doing away with loopholes and revising/eliminating deductions will we truly start to fix our financial mess. If you still advocate one class of taxpayers against the other because it's not fair, that's no way to solve the mess.
Touche' Ikarus but lets just stick to the present. its interesting that Americans have this preconceived notion that the USA could never fall to tyranny. Its not an Obama thing or a Repub thing. But vigilance and upholding the constitution. the last 8-12 years have been rather uneasy with executive decisions. precedences if you will. Perhaps if you look up how to catch a pig you will see.
I personally don't care who brought it up either but when someone make the claim that is was the wrong party I simply attempt to correct the record using verifiable sources.
On sequestration why change it now? Government spending is out of control unless there is a massive increase in revenue. Romney's math was bad but why did no one hold the President's math to the same standard? I never understand why someone, from the left or the right, asks the American people if you want this amount of government this is what it will cost.
Parker ... then perhaps some Plato ...
"Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty."
Tyranny arrives when we demand a multitude of freedoms and forget the only one that matters ... the freedom of thought.
Hey geo #1.95, the Coal miners daughter is going to put coal in your sock, shes a Dem !!!!!!!!!
but Ikarus it all can be avoided is what i am saying. again google how to catch a pig. im not disagreeing with what has happened in the past with Republics and Democracies.
Willard Mittens Romney made a self-serving political statement that was absurd and untrue? No! You don't say!
How to catch a pig ...
By nwolfe@quantumleaders.com
A friend of mine sent me a wonderful piece called “Catching the Wild Pig”. For those of you who have never heard this parable (and I hadn’t until now), here it is:
A chemistry professor at a large college had some exchange students in the class. One day while the class was in the lab the Professor noticed one young man (exchange student) who kept rubbing his back, and stretching as if his back hurt. The professor asked the young man what was the matter. The student told him he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had been shot while fighting communists in his native country who were trying to overthrow his country's government and install a new communist government.
In the midst of his story he looked at the professor and asked a strange question. He asked, 'Do you know how to catch wild pigs?' The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line. The young man said this was no joke. 'You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the woods and putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to come every day to eat the free corn. When they are used to coming every day, you put a fence down one side of the place where they are used to coming. When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you put up another side of the fence. They get used to that and start to eat again.
You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a gate in the last side. The pigs, who are used to the free corn, start to come through the gate to eat; you slam the gate on them and catch the whole herd. Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom. They run around and around inside the fence, but they are caught.
Soon they go back to eating the free corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity.
The young man then told the professor that is exactly what he sees happening to America. The government keeps pushing us toward socialism and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental income, tax credit for unearned income, tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine, drugs, etc. While we continually lose our freedoms -- just a little at a time.
I found this an extremely fascinating and interesting parable and one I can totally endorse. For we must guard carefully not to fall into the trap of being so dependent on the government that we lose our sense of responsibility for our live and even worse, the very spark of life.
Yet, this also brings me to the recognition that we are caught in a rather interesting dilemma are we not. While I agree with the “trap” of the wild pig and the problems that presents, we are also experiencing what happens when you let the pigs (pun intended) run wild (the effect of too much de-regulation for example) and the effects it has on our society overall. – Anyone enjoying the financial crisis we are in? So the real question, (and I believe the true answer) lies in how do we find the right balance.
The trouble we have in our political system is we keep running back and forth between taming the wild pigs and letting them run wild. Wildness is good for creativity, entrepreneurialism, and the like. You want the free flow of energy to stimulate new innovation. And yet when you have unbounded flow of energy you have chaos, which then has to correct itself. As we learn to work with the powerful flow of societal energies, I believe we can learn to modulate the unbounded flow of energy while not reaching the point of constraining it to where we are limiting its flow.
When are we ever going to get a leader that understands the need for balance and stop with the rhetoric of polar opposite making one side wrong and the other right (and I don’t care which side we are talking about). Is it not time for us to have true leadership in this country, and in our companies. Leadership that can connect deeply with the soul of the entity (be it our country or our companies) and guide the energy that flows from there in a balanced way so that we are contributing effectively to our society and our planet?
As to my above paste post ... I do not agree with much of it.
David Walker
You simple minded twit. Senator Patty Murray is in the SENATE. You keep talking about the House. The Senate is now and has been in the control of the democrats since January 2007. The "Super Committee" was controlled by Patty Murray. They were tasked with coming to some sort of agreement and because of Partisan Patty they didn't.The dems own the fiscal cliff. You spew many words and try to sound so friggen smart but prove yourself to be one dumb partisan hack every time you open your trap. You remind me of the old fart that hangs at a local bar and spews his opinion of everything. I call those types the people who know so little about so much. I'll refer to you as Cliff. That has a nice ring to it David "CLIFF" Walker.
Anybody who wants to eliminate ALL deductions is ridiculous and in most cases has a very minimal understanding of the tax code. Although many disagree with social engineering from my stand point many of the deductions do things that make Americans trade off what is best for them in the short term for what is best in the long term.
Eliminating all deductions hurts everyone and throws huge disincentives in many practices that works out better for many Americans in the long term.
JK I do not think you fully understand the tax code. Removing deductions hurt the middle class more than the rich. Many of the most popular deductions slowly phase out with higher incomes or higher amounts. Yes, all those who claim those deductions are negatively effected, but this makes the middle class effected greater. I will try and do a quick example sorry for the numbers!
Lets say there was a 10% deduction to total tax liability but the maximum salary someone can have to claim it is 100k and it starts getting phased out at 50k. To simplify I will have a tax rate of 25%
There are 3 earners one making 50k one making 75k and one making 200k. In regards to this deduction how it would work is the 50k person ends up paying 15%, the person making 75k ends up paying 20%, and the person making 200k cannot claim it.
If you eliminate these deductions all of them would then pay 25%. In this very simplified example the 50k earner saw a 66% increase in tax liability while the 200k saw no changed and the 75k saw a 20% increase.
Our tax code has rules like these with caps, and various things that phase out. When you look at it in as far as tax liability increase, or % of income taxed, in most cases the middle class will wind up seeing the largest increase if deductions are taken out.
JK1963 -- What part of majority do you not understand?
Alan NJ and JH --
Both the Senate and House Republicans VOTED FOR sequestration. Republican LEADERS were on board.
"But for them to go after the U.N. ambassador, who had nothing to do with Benghazi"
If she had nothing to do with Benghazi, then why did Obama send her out to 5 Sunday talk shows to espouse the clearly false narrative that 'It was the video, not a terrorist attack'. This is especially hypocritical because the intelligence community admitted that they KNEW it was a terrorist attack the very next day.
Even two weeks after the attack, Obama appeared on 'The View' and was still not confirming that it was a planned terrorist attack - TWO WEEKS LATER, saying 'We're still investigating'. If Obama thought he could get away with it, he would still be saying "We're still investigating" years later, like he has with the gun running fiasco that he's covering up for Eric Holder with his 'Executive Privilege' order.
This was clearly a 'cover-up' by his Administration, which his adoring media totally ignored. Only now, after the election is over, will the media start to cover the story, and Obama will simply
'Blame someone else' and fire them when the heat gets too high.
Alan, NJ:
As DCIA points out, it really doesn't matter who raised the issue of sequestration. The fact remains, the President proposes, Congress disposes. Sequestration provided cover for Republicans and they jumped all over it. In my opinion, they should continue to run with sequestration. It provides an excellent starting point for serious negotiations. The defense cuts are absolutely necessary. Defense spending has been skyrocketing for the last 30 years and the nation has virtually nothing to show for it except for hundreds of thousands of dead, grievously wounded, and bereaved. That's not a record of which we can be proud.
There isn't a responsible leftie on this board who has objected to tax increases, even below the 250K mark. Recall that President Obama was willing to take $2.50 in cuts for each dollar in taxes. Recall that umpty-ump Republican Presidential candidates made an embarrassing show of ignorance when they wouldn't agree to a ten-to-one ratio. Worse, they swore their allegiance to an unelected ideologue named Grover Norquist. They owe their allegiance to the United States of America, not some lackey who carries water for the rich.
To return to the issue of the President proposing this issue, you (generic you) cannot blame him for one proposal that was passed and then ignore the fact that the President has also submitted budget proposals that were dismissed out of hand.
As I wrote earlier, the time is ripe for cooperation. If it's not there, it will be time for serious reprisals against obstructionists.
cdahl "the abuse many of you are putting on Feisty is way over the top"
Perhaps you should look at the abuse that Feisty puts on others with whom she disagrees.
While I agree that we should keep our posts civil, that has never been a policy that Feisty follows - in fact, I understand that she's banned from many blog sites because of her insulting comments, but FR allows her to spout her hate without limits. Here are a few of her 'enlightened' comments - these are mild ones, some others might get ME banned by FR for repeating them;
"Your irrational hatred is rotting what ever might be left of a brain!"
"Reduced to an angry old man with urine running down his leg!"
"The *popcorn* is ready and waiting for this sh!t show! lol"
JH lotsanumbers:
You could continue to argue with me, or go to a higher authority. I have the Constitution in mind. Acquaint yourself with Article 1, Section 7, which reads in part; "All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills."
Senator Murray! Get it! SENATOR!
JH LotsaNumbers,
David Walker doesn't need to "try" to sound smart. He is smart, and comes by it naturally. He's one helluva lot smarter than you. You're showing your jealousy of his intelligence, which seems to be an affliction on the Right . . . .
Welfare programs now cost taxpayers a record-high $750 billion. While government "charity" has grown, so has poverty-and so has the Democrats' poll numbers.
The candidates and their PACs spent $6 billion for the election. Should we add the $750 billion in federal welfare to Democratic campaign spending total?
Roy,
I agree that she often posts with the intention of garnering a response. As a fiscal conservative, who voted for Obama the first time and Romney the second, it really bothers me when people call her a whore. Those derogatory terms not only make the poster look like a complete buffoon, but also diminishes my arguments by pinning the idiots to the ideology on the right. If it wasn't for the extreme idiots out there, the impression that the left are more the name callers and mostly baseless opinion would be obvious.
And from a small business stand point, your posts mirror the reality of our decisions here. For example, our CAPEX has been put on hold, hiring of (2) engineer position on hold and inventories have been set to increase 10% (down from 20%), until we see the ramifications of the negotiation. If the taxes on small business income (we are an S Corp) are allowed to expire, those temporary holds will be come permanent. (With the exception of CAPEX which will be reduced from $1.2M to $600K, a directly reflection of 60% of the dollars that will be going to the federal government.
After reading post after post from Obama supporters we definitely need to see a poll on how many think that raising taxes on the top earners is going to balance the budget. Lets find out exactly how many people are clueless on this issue. There are some facts that might surprise people, first off, no Democrat controlled congress has balanced the federal budget in 40 years. When Bill Clinton had a balanced budget for part of his term, the Republicans were in Control of Congress. No Republican president has balanced the budget in 50 years. Obama isn't even going to put the nation on the path to balance the budget let alone attempt to do it while he is in office.
Washington has absolutely no track record of ever solving anything. We have been fighting a war on poverty for decades, and yet more people are on welfare today then ever in our nations history. We are still fighting the war on drugs, and have been for decades. Our borders have never been secured. We are still not energy independent. We still haven't fixed Medicare or Social Security, both are on the path to insolvency. The list goes on, so where is the track record for solving problems? Simple, it doesn't exist from either party.
Giving Washington more money will never solve anything, they will simply spend more. We only have a track record decades long to prove it. Without top to bottom tax reform and spending controls, nothing is going to change. There are plenty of great solutions to that problem to pick from, but politics always gets in the way. The only sane solution to this problem is a balanced budget amendment and term limits for members of Congress. We need people in Washington that want to work for the country, and not for personal gain. Until the media gets back to doing their job of keeping government in check, and voters start holding their own party accountable, nothing is ever going to be solved.
Is Orange-Head intoxicated supporting the lavish life style of the mega rich that threw millions and millions on a loser, what a waste !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Alan, of course not. But if you look at the trendlines and the graphs on spending, you'll see we're a lot closer to our goals on spending and we are moving in the right direction on spending a lot faster than we are moving the right direction on revenue.
If you look at the Heritage Foundation's trend chart, you'll see that this year, as a percentage of GDP, spending is about 23.3% and declining. In fact, as a percentage of GDP, it's a little bit below what it was in the middle Reagan years. And it's projected to continue to decline until about 2018 when it will reach its nadir if no changes are made at about 20.9%. At that point, Heritage assumes that if no budgetary changes are made, it will begin to rise again and reach a little over 22% by 2022.
Which means what essentially? Well, it means that we are currently trending in the right direction on spending. Remember, the factor that the right wing never takes into consideration when having these debates is that the economy grows.
That means that if your spending stays the same, it is shrinking.
Think of it this way. If you spend $20 and you make $100, your spending is 20% of your 'GDP.' Now if your spending stays at $20 and the next year you make $100, your spending is now 18.1% of your GDP.
There are things you can control and things you can't. You CAN control how much you spend in raw dollars and when people are talking about shrinking the deficit, they aren't usually talking about actually spending less money. They are talking about spending less as a percentage of what we as a country make.
But you CAN control your revenue as a percentage of GDP, because that's essentially exactly how it's pegged. GDP is basically nothing more than a measure of the collective income of the nation and we peg the government's income as a percentage of the nation's collective income. So as 'rulers,' your ability to handle fiscal problems is less a product of how much you spend because you have less control of how much you spend, than how much you make.
The reason for that is simple. As a ruler, you have no control over how much a massive collection of individuals are going to separately charge for the goods and services you buy. If, for example, you need to purchase 1,000 kilos of steel every year to build planes and ships, you can PROJECT the cost, but you really have no direct control over it. You can sort of assume the prices will be higher than last year, but you don't know by exactly how much.
But you CAN control the fact that you tax your population enough not to default on your creditors when the bill comes due. And that is where the right wing has been wrong on this debate for years.
Their guiding principle is that government revenues should never rise. $2 trillion in 2012 should 'buy' exactly the same amount of government as it did in 2000. And that's just not the case. And it's not the case for a simple reason.
Prices rise.
Comment Re; Post #1.110
It appears that Romney's comment about the '47%' (which likely cost him the election) was completely accurate (in fact, exit polls confirm that they voted for Obama by about a 65% to 33% margin).
It sort of reminds me of Jack Nicholson's comment in A Few Good Men - "The truth - you can't handle the truth".
LMAO!
Still living in the land of make-believe... eh Roy?
Did your beloved Rasmussan tell you that?
How about some proof to back up your repeated bull@!$%#?
Tell us exactly which sites I've been banned from?
Cdahl,
Thank you for your support! I have been called worse... much... worse!
I just consider the source and move on!
Like Roy here, who has to resort to making "stuff" up to defend himself!
They can call me anything they want, the ONE thing they can never call me is a liar...
you are entitled to that opinion Ikarus, and i respect it.
Hey Rick #1.134, It's not going to balance the budget, I agree, but it will help and we need all the help we can get, Salute !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Errr, I meant:
Think of it this way. If you spend $20 and you make $100, your spending is 20% of your 'GDP.' Now if your spending stays at $20 and the next year you make $110, your spending is now 18.1% of your GDP.
Will Obama 'tack to the center' as many pundits claim?
Not likely, since the Democrats seem to gain votes when the economy is poor and more people become dependent on government handouts.
I look for him to 'double down' on a far-left Liberal agenda with lots of new anti-business regulations and restrictions and EPA rules against energy producers. I also expect the Debt to continue to rise at an alarming rate. Of course, he'll continue to blame the rich - why would he change a winning strategy?
All you GOP supporters, tell me how Trickle down is working, that's what the tax cuts to the 1% is all about !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I buy that. it certainly is more on the probable spectrum then not
@ Patriotic
Trickle down works in manufacturing, because there is no way it can't. As a manufacturer I see it every day. The issue is Free trade. The Trickle Down is working perfectly in China with double digit growth over the last decade, and a muted 8% forecast during the upcoming European and possible US recession.
We lost the effect and the benefit to the middle class when large manufacturing corporations, with the support of mass retailers like Wal-Mart, Home Depot, etc. exploited low cost manufacturing countries to the detriment of US middle class workers. But feel free to sleep well, taxing small business will surely benefit the US treasury.
hey Roy here is another charming quote from your friend Redhead
GOP Priorities are with the 1%, what about the middle class !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, I guess I do have one more thing to be thankful for this year. That I am no an ignorant ditto-head who worships a fat dope-head and a television network headed by an Australian billionaire who's reporters hack cellphones of grieving families to write tabloid news stories.
Yep, definitely thankful I can think for myself.
LOL They still haven't figured that out. They thought they could lie and buy the presidency, but the PEOPLE rejected their lies and their extremism. Sheldon Adelson might be a rich S.O.B. but he's only got one vote, the same as all the rest of us.
Come on, Alan. Is that piddling little factoid the best you've got to discredit skip?
Skip is an expert on military history. He has forgotten more about the subject than you will ever know. Be honest: You're just in a bad mood and come here to vent.
I really wish you conservatives would get past losing. The truth is, you WON!! We all won by re-electing President Obama. It might not be clear you you at the moment, but give it a little time. You will see that the world didn't end. We haven't suffered a financial meltdown. We haven't been attacked by terrorists.
The economy is getting better. It will continue to do so, with some of the usual blips.
Try seeing things from the other side. It's a much better view, I promise. :)
Akeem,
I was pointing out the comparison between those that want to claim that there is a big untapped amount of tax dollars not being received by not taxing the wealthy more compared to lost money of deductions that everyone is eligible to take. I'm a RTRP and know the impact but the point of the discussion gets lost in the mentality of that taxing the rich as the only solution doesn't solve the problem...
Don't...
I understand clearly what majority means...it's too bad that there is more takers than contributors to our society...
no skip, you're a ditto-head who worships a megalomaniac who spends time hangin on the view cuz its 'cool'. and you 'think' for yourself.
You have something dripping off your chin, but Obama thanks you.
Roy,
Thank you for confirming you are as credible with your false accusations as you are with your "polling" expertise!
Another keyboard warrior who likes to talk the talk but can't walk the walk... LMAO@U
Exactly. We understand Luke Russert is green. Maybe he's been promoted too quickly. But he's got good genes and time to mature. As for Chuck Todd, he needs to get back to the journalistic roots that made the media the Fourth Estate in U.S. politics and society. Infotainment masquerading as news needs to stop. Grow up, Chuck.
They can redeem themselves in my eyes by asking John McCain when he is going to retire and let the younger generation have a chance. McCain's time has passed. He's a washed-up old fossil, pretending to be a maverick while kissing Tea Party butt. He's not fooling anyone but himself.
@Proud 2B Liberal:
pffft! If you're a liberal, I'm the Queen of Sheba.
@Caesar:
Wow. You really told off skip. bwahahahaha
Isn't it time to quit with the personal attacks, righties? You need to grow up and figure out who is the real enemy of America.
Take a look in the mirror.
We are willing to work with you. What do you say? Or are you still not done pouting?
@Michael Thompson,Charlotte,N.C.#1.104: You Sir, have my attention, and I'm sure many others as well. Your factual, and well articulated posts are something of a welcome anomaly here among the bowels of this thread. Contemplative and hacked up bullsh^t, void of factuality, and often so disjointed, one must contort a position swap of ones ass and crotch just to withstand the underlying tortured intent of the proposed claptrap is more often than not, the debates of preference here. Thus far though, you Sir, reveal yourself to be, much like my friend "David Walker", an honest and honorable intellect. Hope to see you here often. My very best regards Sir
it wasnt meant to KB, just merely displaying the irony of it. Skip has me on ignore anyways.
im sure you are KB, as well as I am willing too. im not pouting at all. interesting you speak of personal attacks from the right. Im sure you lefties are only giving out 'constructive critizisms' .
I agree, Mac. Michael Thompson's comment was well written and persuasive. Let's hope his message sinks into the minds where it's needed most.
It sure would be nice to have a substantive discussion of the issues here. If conservatives would present their views without all the rancor and personal attacks they might actually persuade some of us, or at least enable us to understand their perspective.
How about it guys? Alan? Caesar? Remember: just the facts, Ma'am.
Yes! Now you're on the right track, Caesar. ;)
Oh hallowed one.....If the foo shyts....well you know! Proxyservers thousands of them!
@Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL#1.154: Pay no attention to Wilson. Very few others do. Wilson is, has been, and apparently wishes to remain, the available debris and smell, necessary to the floundering of all passing rogue whirlwinds wishing to find and crash an outhouse with an unhinged door.
Thanks for having my back KB. Junior? Senior? The point is, Admiral McCain ended up in Panama which was NOT considered a plumb assignment for "fighting Admiral" during a war.
As for being a military history experts...aw..shucks...well, I"guess it's so...:-) Just havin' fun ya'll, just havin' fun.
Kay,
Well...even tho they are a few years apart, the day that bumbling Biden retires will be none too soon in comparison to McCain. And you might also remember that McCain is a decorated war veteran...unlike Biden...
JK:
The big difference between Biden and McCain is that Biden knows who he is and what he stands for. McCain is still looking for his own a$$ at age 76. What a maverick. sheesh
Apparently the American public sees it that way too. Biden is a heartbeat from the highest office in the land after a long and distinguished career in the senate.
Meanwhile, McCain is trying to make political hay out of Benghazi. That dog didn't hunt before the election and it still won't hunt. Where was McCain when Condi Rice was lying to us?
David Walker - The healthcare debt burden we are putting on ourselves, our children and unborn grandchildren is a CIVIL CRIME, not a Civil Right! How is forcing 300+ Million Americans and illegals into a health-care insurance program a great piece of civil rights legislation? That is socialism, not civil rights! Every other nation on earth that instituted universal health-care is paying dearly for it and in economic trouble. Only 50 million Americans at most needed some form of "free" health-care because they could not afford it, did not qualify, or elected not to have it. We could have designed a program to cover just them without it costing us Trillions per year like Obamacare will.
i have leaned right this time around, but I would have to say this alone puts me left of middle....this is not compromise fellow R's...this is unwillingness...period. You cannot keep going on like this...because, like me, I side with the issue not with the party, so many other people are going to not like this, dem or gop (if they can leave the party and think of the issue). We need to collect, not find and split special interest groups, once again, into billions of more pieces, just to watch them each grow to full scale in a few years, and then using the excuse, we need these billion pieces...no no no...this is wrong...and its not ok to do this.
its your fantasy, you tell it how you believe it ;)
as for civil discourse perhaps you can lead by example. Please demonstrate for us without personal attacks or passive aggressive behavior.
Dear Republican Politicians:
You are clearly not in charge....no group could possible be so naive to think we cannot see what you are doing.
I am SO ASHAMED of the USA's Republican Party Politicians....you stopped working for us...you only work for you boss...you know that extremely wealthy entity you sold your soul too!!!
You make me mad because I stood on your side....until you say you will not allow anymore money to be taken from your master...your boss...your soul keeper....clearly the American people need a new Republican Party....if I could, I would fire every last one of you right now. Do not think the American people can't have a Republican party without you, we certainly can and I think this administration would be standing on our side.
Is it wrong if I call for the leaders of the GOP to be removed from office? hope not because I call it
Roy bows down to Dick Morris, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
What a clown Dick Morris is, fricken munchkin!
"Romney in a landslide, unprecedented in modern political history."
The only thing missing on Dick Morris is a big red ball at the end of his nose.
skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City
How about the Free State of Austin? If Texas secedes from the Union, the sane parts of the state could secede from the crazy parts. Houston would secede, too, but the climate's better in Austin and the country is much prettier than around Houston.
@Caesar: I will defend, without apology, anyone whom I wish to defend.
Unless John McCain is commenting on FR (under an alias), how can my comments be classified as personal attacks on others here?
Has anyone heard from Ted Nugent???? Is he in jail yet???
@ Roy Wilson
Yes you're entitled to your opinion even though it's wrong, pathetic, and sour grapes. Your Republican party lost in a big way. The unemployment rate is still high and Obama was ripe for the pickings but your parties platform of attacking those you don't like and calling those that have an opinion different than your as ignorant/uneducated cost you the election. When will you realize that this country is moving on without the Republican party because they are still lost in the 50s.
Didn't vote for Obama (I'm a Republican - what a shocker). Obama is going too much to the well with this blaming-Bush routine when he and Democrats have done squat on containing out-of-control government spending - in fact, promising more goodies for all - and in borrowing as drunken sailors from China. China is cutting up our credit cards.
... but we've got to work together in BOTH cutting programs AND, yes, raising taxes for some.
Our Debt-per-Capita is 30% higher than Greece, and more than twice that of Spain!
Our financial markets are on life-support only because of the European crisis and investors being chased away from Euros to Dollars - FOR THE TIME BEING! Yet, we are so much in-debt that even if we wanted to we would not meet the European standards to join their union!
I did not vote for Obama. I am EXTREMELY disappointed he got re-elected. But, he is our President and we've got to resolve this now!
Kay,
Biden doesn't remember what he had for lunch. The fact that he is literally only a heartbeat away from being in the highest office of the land should scare the HELL out of any sane person! Why do you think Osama wanted to take out Obama? He had it right...if Biden were thrust into the limelight we would be screwed beyond belief! I see that you still have no respect for a veteran...nice that you dump on a person that served in the military. Very respectable... I hope other veterans see what a low opinion you have for a fellow servicemember.
I'm sure that Obama and his handlers will make this Libya incident just "go away" at some point through deflection and coverup while forgetting that innocent people paid for other's mistake with their lives.
JK, don't underestimate the intelligence of your enemy. Biden is more intelligent than you may believe where his only fault if you wish to call it that is that he is too honest and says what he believes. Now your idol G W Bush was one dumb f__k. Fill in the blanks any way you wish but I believe you get my point.
Now as for respect for veterans...the Republicans blocked a jobs bill for veterans. It alright for them to fight for their sorry a$$es but screw them when they don't need them anymore.
Larry,
I see it's pointless to converse with a bitter liberal Democrat. Too honest? How about his day after day gaffes? And hate to burst your bubble...GW wasn't my idol, but you on the left always like to live in the past and try to prop up Obama by comparing him to GW. You know...that really doesn't make the case for Barry being much smarter.
And just so you know, my younger brother fought in Iraq and he and his unit were more proud serving under GW than the current commander in chief. In fact, I would get banned if I repeated the things that they say about Barry.
You do realize that a good portion of those poor people are Republicans??? You also realize that the VAST majority of states that take in more money from the federal government than pay in taxes are RED STATES??? And that is in a good economy...
Really??? The welfare queen argument??? You do realize that whole piece of @!$%# was concocted by Republicans like Ronald Reagan to win over the poor white vote that had traditionally been Democratic, right?? And by the way, the population of Americans using government aid has gone UP under REPUBLICAN presidencies like Reagan and Bush 43!!! You idiots fail to understand that when you crash the economy by giving tax cuts for the rich and deregulating the financial industry, people are not going to stay employed. They are going to be fired and forced to rely on government benefits. You want to know who's at fault for this; YOU. Republicans like YOU who think that you can deregulate the economy and cut taxes for the rich all you want, and that when the economy inevitably collapses, nobody will get hurt. But that isn't the truth; you ought to go back to Econ 101.
First of all, no Democratic legislator is proposing citizenship for ALL 12 million illegal immigrants; in fact, the firebrand libertarian Rand Paul (son of Ron Paul) is proposing that, and he happens to be a REPUBLICAN. And by the way, how else are we going to deal with that population??? We can't deport all of them; hell, even Hitler couldn't do that. And we cannot let them stay here undocumented; that is just bad economic and social policy. A gradual (I say GRADUAL) path for citizenship is the most ideal outcome, with a shorter path for the children of illegal immigrants.
Actually, raising taxes on the wealthy will NOT drag down the economy; ask the Congressional Budget Office and the CRS. You can bitch about opinions all you want, but you cannot bitch against facts.
We also spend $700 billion on funding the military industrial complex, sending American soldiers to foreign nations to fight and die in stupid wars, and buying massive numbers of military equipment that we don't even need. Should Democrats claim that this welfare program turns the military Republican???
To all Republicans who don't want to live under a Obama presidency and lament about the "fall of America," I have a simple proposal for you: secede. That's right, leave the Union. Create your own country, tax the hell out of the poor and give it all to the rich, and then see what happens. Go ahead; we Blue states don't give a damn. However, don't be surprised when F-18s bomb the crap out of your major cities, when your economy collapses, when your so-called "country" makes the same damn mistakes that the freaking Confederacy made, and when your welfare dollars will shrivel up. That's right, we blue states are pretty much done funding your welfare spending; you can pay for it yourself. We'll invade and reunite the nation and all that, just to make you suffer like the Confederate bastards suffered in the Civil War. We will make Georgia howl, along with South Carolina, Virginia, Mississippi, Texas, Alabama, and every other goddamn red state.
MAKE THE RED STATES HOWL 2012
Libs, don't forget about the exit polling siting the IQ of the average Oblama voter vs the Romney voter. When you see the numbers, you're not going to like it.
But hey, you're going to see those taxes go up.
.
Or as John Sununu might put it, "They're lazy!" People get pretty tired of being stereotyped...
Mandate President
From the article above:
The President speaking Wednesday at the White House…
The President then addressed a reporter's question…
The President continued…
All I can say is BRAVO, Mr. President!!!
President Obama has taken more abuse, more hatred, more racist, more lying by the right-wing media during his first term than any of his predecessors before him.
He just concluded a hard-fought election campaign with a decisive mandate win of 332 Electoral Votes and a 51% to 48% popular vote.
Now, he's flexing his mandate-muscles like a true leader should. I say go get 'em, Mr. President.
I can just here the right-wing noise machine saying crap like the President is a "bully" etc. and so forth. This after 4 years of the same RW media calling him "weak" and having "no leadership".
Well get use to it, nut jobs. It's a brand new day, and a brand new America.
And if you think the President is acting like a bully, just try and take on us 51% of Americans who just voted for him.
WE got our President's back. He has been fighting for us, so now we will fight for him. WE Democrats aren't going to take your crap anymore.
Salud
I met an African-American man waiting in line to vote last week as the polls were about to close. He told me he'd been there two times earlier in the day but the line was too long and so he decided to come back after work. He said he would wait for as long as it took to vote.
All his friends and family were voting to send a message that they were not going to be disenfranchised or intimidated. He said they wanted Americans to prove that the presidency could not be bought, that America still belongs to the people.
He said he trusted and admired Obama for his steady leadership and didn't really think of him as a black man. He said many in his community were disappointed that Obama hadn't done more for African-Americans. They still felt he was the best man for the job.
Obama won because the trust and faith of enough clear-thinking, hard-working, proud and humble people proved too powerful for the greed, manipulation and incompetence of the GOP.
John Sununu can STFU now.
so, do you guys promote racism as well as discrimination?
same thing ya know!
As far as the election gloating, time to move on and get things accomplished, don't ya think?
sirie-
No. We defeat racism and end discrimination.
Several bloogers on the right have been gloating about the 2010 Republican "shellacking" for the last two years, even all the way up to the 2012 election.
If it bothers you, then yes, we will keep doing it.
Salud
so, raising taxes on the top 2% is NOT discrimination?
What do you NOT call racism?
well sirie you would think but I see our esteemed liberals here believe that success is gloating and perpetual celebration. I have been told this is the New America, Im a dinosaur I need to evolve or die, there is no room for the likes of me yada yada yada. Discrimination and Racism seems to be the lefts true platform.
Now i hear of talks of secession from some states, including my own which is blue mind you. Nope not a Fox talking point, an ABC one. Feel like i have to say where i heard it because the paranoid fringe in here will wringe their hands screaming 'Faux Noise' conspiracy. its the liberal version of A wrinkle in Time. Just look inside FR and you can see IT (Obama) has control of its mindless inhabitants.
I think you need a friggin dictionary since you obviously have no idea what either of those words mean.
Right. The party that nominated and subsequently elected the first black president TWICE is the party of racists. LOL Get a new schtick - that dog no longer hunts.
Tomas, another terrific post. President Obama did a great job yesterday; he always does. As usual, he's 10 steps ahead of everyone else.
sirie, tell that to your own side which is spinning itself dizzy trying to make excuses for why they lost, not to mention the outlandish conspiracy theories. I, for one, will continue to "gloat" because it obviously annoys conservatives.
so does that saying. I hear it constantly from you lefties on here. but continue with the fallacy that only white people are racists (unless your liberal) and you guys are the shining knights fighting the good fight. time for the left to grow up.
I guess they don't have a dictionary Caesar....
I guess nothing has changed, heard Obama blaming Bush again yesterday! Sheesh, get a clue man!! Why not blame the English, remember the taxation without representation, i'm sure you can spin that into why Obama is failing....
Jody, Iowa-
Thank you, Jody. There are some great posts today!
Ceasar-
Hope you have a nice day.
Salud
sirie,
we are not gloating, we are responding to the lies and lunacy coming from your side.
Mike,
I doubt he will ever come around, his brains are made of unhardened cement.
Thanks bigdogg - I'm waiting for Jesse Jackson Jr. to come out publicly telling us why he feels that he deserved another term.... I can't wait!
i hear you sirie. Im glad Jody is so grown up that they will continue to gloat because it annoys conservatives. Way to try to work together. Its like Darth Vader from the left. Join us or Die. How tolerant.
Liberals love their echo chamber, its an insecurity thing.
Hey Tomas you too
Bigdogg, whas the matter, overcompensating again?
Caesar -
Mitt Romney claims that the only reason African-Americans, Hispanics, women, and young people voted for President Obama is because he gave them 'gifts'.
Your chosen candidate basically insulted every demographic group except old white men, and claims they ALL voted for President Obama not for the good of the country but to get 'free stuff'.
How is that not racist and discriminatory - not to mention unbelievably stupid?
Wow - you can say that with a straight face after Conservatives claimed for months the polls were skewed, the 'liberal media' was biased, and Romney was going to win in a landslide?
Conservatives drown themselves in the 'white noise' of Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity; ignore math and facts to support of Paul Ryan's 'fantasy' budget; invent cover-ups like Benghazi; and claim Liberals are in an echo chamber?
Unbelievable.
Grow up to be racist, chauvinistic war mongers? No thanks.
And its kind of hard to argue the racist point with Romney coming right out and blaming all non-whites for his loss.
Here's a clue - change your small mentality or you will continue to lose. This isnt conjecture. Its fact.
Actually I think he won. Failing was on the other side of the aisle.
yes you are. but here you are whining still about one news outlet that challenges your very 'secure' world. As for polls, they were skewed but i told both sides to ignore them because they were meaningless. yes Obama won but not because the polls and the landslide deal i never thought either canidate was going to win in a landslide. both were guilty of that trash talk.
sure Mikey, but you are a racist (fallacy again), chauvinistic war mongers. lets see war on women, war on class, war on libya. Oh the humanity. sorry mike just because you type doesnt make it true or gospel. 'That dog dont hunt'. now go worship your degree's LOL
Perfect! Well said, Tomas!
They nominated and elected him to present some stigma that they weren't and now can all feel good and pat each other on the back continuously as is proved by reading the majority of posts here.
And Mike, since when is picking a class and imposing different rules on them not discrimination?
Caesar,
Still crying?
Sirie
Top 2% have gotten tax cuts that they did not need for the past 30 years with the false promise (to us) that they would create jobs and higher incomes for us.
The Reagan tax cuts for this group were described by Reagan's Budget Director as a "Trojan Horse" for trickle down since in this recession, the top 2% actually benefited greatly from the 14% interest rates and did not need tax cuts to ease the pain of high interest rates.
After the .com bust (caused by over exuberant investing by top 2%), the top 2% got massive tax cuts again even though they were largely to blame for this recession.
Taking back something that was given and taken on false pretenses is not discrimination. It is fairness.
the most important thing is 'balance'
2001-2012 the rich have got non-stop freebies of government handout in Bush tax cut for the rich
some of the rich have actually destroyed the US and world economy - the rich have bought up cheap distressed properties for future sales to make more profits - hey, they are smart
.
the balance is..... going back to the original top marginal tax rate of 39.6% - not a tax rise...it's going back to the previous rate.
Well Shaak, I'm definately not the top 2%, but to be honest I didn't need those tax cuts either. If my neighbor has a truck, car and motorcycle, guess I should just take one, heh? I mean, he doesn't need ALL those, does he?
I'd like to see your definition of 'balance'.
well Sirie, its the hard left perception of what is right and wrong. besides a lot of them love the 'rob peter to pay paul' approach until it affects them. I would love to see one lefty define what a fair share is? When did 250k a year become rich or even wealthy? Do any lefties know the difference between wealth and income and are they one in the same?
Pigotry
So, the only people that received freebies are the rich? Guess that the food stamps and welfare should be paid back as well?
I just don't quite understand why class warfare goes on in this day and age... Maybe I'm just too "progressive" for today's democrats!
caesar of #2.28 - my definition of a 'balance' is already in my post #2.26...
when the rich got non-stop government handouts in Bush tax cut...when they destroyed the US and world economy, it's the middle class who bailed out the banks and insurance companies such as AIG. It's taxpayers' bailout funds the CEOs continued to use to pay themselves obscene bonusses..
time to pay up - pay your share...wait...even if the top marginal tax rate is back to 39.5%, the rich will always pay below their share of social responsibilites - because COngress has put in place so many tax loopholes which the rich have exploited to pay less - for example...many incomes are not counted as income to subject to the top tax rate of 36% (now), often such incomes are counted as 'capital gains' which have a 15% rate?? WOW more fraud and scamming.
Congress being a mix of Dems, Repubs and Independants?
Actually, he was defeated because he offered "gifts" only to the top 2%, and failed in his attempts to convince the other 98% that it was good for them too.
LooLoser, and what will you say when none of that happens? I would like to hear "Sorry I was wrong"
Pigotry: 2001-2012 the rich have got non-stop freebies of government handout in Bush tax cut for the rich
How is keeping what you earned a handout from government? Is all money first governments and if they allow you to keep it, that is a gift?
Also, how much have you benefited from the Bush tax cuts? If they were not in place, how much less of a "gift from government" would you have gotten?
Often..what's earned is really government subsidies - giveaways...that's why.
Romney's analysis laughable?
75% of those who voted for Obama receive some type of assistance from the govt.
That's not funny one bit. That's disgraceful.
Ridiculous.
If that is true, we'd love to see you prove it. End all Affirmative Action programs so that ALL americans are treated EQUALLY and FAIRLY.
I keep hearing that this is the new multi racial, multicultural America. This new America has placed a black man in the highest office in the land. How in God's name can people who call themselves liberals intentionally punish white kids who have never done anything to anyone by making it more difficult for them on college entrance exams, and other whites in general to get small business loans and government contracts?
That's not liberal at all!
Ha Ha! Feisty makes the following comment:
.
And gets 12 votes! Has anyone ever seen such mindless minions?
Pretty good example of her intelligence, I will have to admit.
What is your point, Caesar? We voted for a black man, so that makes us anti-white?
We voted for the best man. His skin color was not an issue for me. I would have voted for Obama if he were green.
If everyone voted for his own race only, we would have a white president now.
Cite your source, Simple.
Do you honestly want to argue that all Americans were treated equally and fairly before the advent of affirmative action? If so, why was it ever implemented in the first place?
It sounds like you are not willing to give up any of your priviledges to even the playing field.
That is the difference between you and a liberal, my friend.
I see the old sour grapes are still on here trying to talk themselves into a good feeling. Something like Karl Rove and his "It wasn't my fault we lost" attitude and Grover Norquist saying the reason Republicans lost was because they nominated a "poop head". In other words in Rove and Norquist's mind it wasn't their fault but rather the fault of someone else. Why don't you blame Obama for losing because he did a better job of campaigning.
When will you people learn that the blacks have voted 90% Democrat for the last 52 years. That never changed. The real reason the Republicans lost was because of their attack on single women whether they be black or white and their attack on Latinos by telling them to get out of their country. By Romney threatening to remove Obamacare which would hurt families who have sick members that the insurance companies would cut off from medical services. The only way they had to fight back was through the polls so stop blaming anyone but yourselves. You lost and this is not gloating....it's a fact so get over it.
kaybeetoys
Go back and read the post again. I'm talking about the present, not the past, and since a black man is now in the White House, you can no longer say that only whites have power. It is obviously not true today.
I don't know about you and the privileges you have, but I am not privileged, and leveling the playing field IS what I'm talking about. I went to apply for a small business loan before and was told that with my limited capital and resources, I would only qualify if I were a minority (there are special programs for them). So...yes, a LEVEL playing field WOULD be nice. But admit it, you are not REALLY interested in FAIR are you?
Nope, I am a liberal in the sense that I love freedom and limited government. I don't consider folks like you liberal at all. I consider you far leftists agitating for a government that will end up being totalitarian...and you are not my friend.
x
I'm sure the president will be glad to compromise with the House to avoid the fiscal cliff. He will show real leadership. I am so proud of his new found ability to be bi-partisan. It should really help him in his second term.
Yes, and we can only hope the House and Senate will show some bi-partisanship as well. That should help all Americans during the President's second term.
I agree Annie. It is important for the House and Senate to look at the fiscal effect of raising taxes on the rich and not just the emotional impact. I am sure that a slight adjustment to the taxes that the rich pay will solve most of our financial problems. It should also quell the anger that people have towards anyone that makes more than they do. Once they (The Rich) start paying "A little more" (Barrack's words), we should be a less divided country and can all start working together on the really big problem of solving our crumbling bridges and expanding those two lane roads into modern thoroughfares!
JC in G - expanding those two lane roads into modern thoroughfares!
LOL, I'm not gonna hold my breath in my neighborhood. I live all h3ll and gone from civilization and I'm just hoping for paved two lane roads. But I get what you are saying. I just hope we can get past what we have seen for the last four years.
I know what you mean. There is a pothole that I have to drive around on my way to work every day. This has been a shovel ready job that could have been filled if congress had passed some more stimulus money. I'll bet the CEO at my company could pay for a crew to fix this with the amount of money he spends on socks alone.
Good luck on getting your road paved. If the fiflthy wall street fat cats get to enjoy those nice roads in New York, you sure as heck deserve a little blacktop in your neck of the woods.
hahaha fool, partianship, yeah right not from mr. executive order, the king, lol
JC, don't you already pay taxes to fix potholes? just wondering where that money goes, and why we need stimulus to put money in something that was ALREADY paid for...
ARRA for roadways was a joke. the money that was allocated predominantly gets spent on beautification projects, not improving and repairing infrastructure. why would it cost 100k for a sign to say ARRA?
Sieri,
Yes, I pay taxes, but I think that goes to fix the schools not the roads. Spending more money on education is a good thing. If we can get more stimulus money, then we can get the potholes fixed. It will only be the lazy, greedy, putris wall street fat cats that have to pay the extra tax to fix the roads. They should even pay more to help the schools but they are too greedy. Look at Romney, he has a horse that gets more money that the local elementary school. How does that help our country?
Ceasure,
I'm not sure what ARRA is, but trying to beautify America is a good thing. Who wants to look at run down stuff on their way to work. Only the idiotic wall street fat cats want us to have to look at garbage because they are too cheep and want all the money. They get to ride in ther private jets to work, so they don't know how ugly some of the roads are these days.
then your retort is simply irrelevant. maybe if you take the time to look it up. pot holes in roads vs a painting along a soundwall on a high traveled insterstate. you tell me whats more beneficial.
Ceaser,
I don't know what a Chicago rock band has to do with potholes and I am not going to listen to their music to find out. I think both things are important, fixing up the potholes and having a pretty painting on a wall. It does not cost very much to get some kids to paint walls, if you have ever been to New York, you would see that many of the walls are painted by kids. To fix a pothole, you need some pretty extensive equiptment and some good union workers to make sure it gets done correctly. You also need to get the people to slow down a little while they are going through the construction site. Lots of workers are hurt because people don't slow down in the construction sites. If they painted a nice picture on the wall next to the construction site, maybe people would slow down to take in the beauty of the picture and the workers would not get killed. The way I see it, the picture would not only make people feel better, but it could save lives. I've never seen a pothole save someone's life, but I guess it could happen??
Potholes only take life JC.
It is , to be clear, quite tragic and a travesty.
If spending more money on education is a good thing, then why are our children falling farther and farther down the scale compared to other countries, when all the LOTTERY proceeds go toward education?
I would fire about 3/4 of the teachers currently putting in their 6 hour days, passing kids just to keep from actually having to TEACH... which only makes it harder on the next teacher.
Our education system does NOT need more money thrown into it, it needs major reform!
Go on, Republicans. Go on believing, as Mr. Romney stated in his conference call yesterday, that the reason the President won re-election last week is because he played Santa Claus and gave away the store.
If the largest entitlements in this nation are Medicare and Social Security, well, Mr. Romney, you won their vote. Let that sink in for a moment.
...but, no...go on believing that you lost to an over-entitled society. Carry that belief into 2016 and you'll lost that election as well.
Hell...I voted for the President and they didn't promise me so much as even a toaster!
I agree, where is my free stuff? How come I have to work?
Sorry a triple posting.
I agree, where is my free stuff? How come I have to work?
I'm getting a new car for my vote! Oh wait! I'm not? crap! oh well, maybe next time! :)
At least I got a president who cares about me!
Wasn't Mr. Romney offering his own package of "giveaways" in tax cuts to the wealthy? Is he simply upset that his giveaways didn't win? (tongue-in-cheek...)
Everybody gets a car! Everybody gets a car!!!
(Governor Romney has apparently confused "Obama" with "Oprah")
I think even Governor Romney would have won if he gave everyone a car. It would still be close, but giving away a car to every voter might have put him over the top.
dangerfield then perhaps Alexander Fraser Tytler is right? (if he indeed did make the quote i allude to)
If I even know what quote you mean, I always thought it was attributed to de Tocqueville...
The thing about democracy, republic and monarchy?
Then you are probably a black or a union thug or a communist, maybe all 3!????????????????
The only free stuff I have gotten from President Obama is the freedom to sleep at night knowing he is the President and McCain and Romney aren't. As the commercial says, that is priceless!
thats the one, however it's irrelevant to who it goes to, the message stands. Panem et circensis my friend.
"It is not, perhaps, unreasonable to conclude, that a pure and perfect democracy is a thing not attainable by man, constituted as he is of contending elements of vice and virtue, and ever mainly influenced by the predominant principle of self-interest. It may, indeed, be confidently asserted, that there never was that government called a republic, which was not ultimately ruled by a single will, and, therefore, (however bold may seem the paradox,) virtually and substantially a monarchy."
Attributed to several different authors...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
No kidding, Da Noid. Romney yesterday proved that he meant what he said about the 47% the first time because he repeated it and added young voters to the list. STEELER, I second that and thank heaven that Mitt Romney lost.
im sorry Dangerfield i meant this quote
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."
The American Republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Tytler quote is about Athens ( I believe), but the variations are certainly applicable to our current circumstances...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
As one of the 1%, the only candidate offering me any bribes was the Governor. As a city dweller, I do not need a car...
in NYC perhaps. yes Tytler's quote (we are not a democracy yes) does indeed apply to our current government. it does erode the very fabric of a republic as well.
The one gift we received so far is the fact that Willard will never ever be President of the United States.
I will leave the irony of the lament for republic from "Caesar Augustus" to the select few...
Have you read Robert Graves, "I Claudius", or "Claudius the God"?
The PBS adaptation is among the best series I have ever seen. Brain Blessed as Octavian is amazing...
Job1 - you mean no toaster???? I could really use a new toaster!!!! LOL
I sleep MUCH better at night knowing our President is not going to start yet another war just to keep the GOP handlers happy!
nope, but i do hear Patrick Stewart plays a good Sejanus. its suppose to be a nice fictional piece. Octavian was at the right place at the right time. The slide of the republic can possibly be attributed to the Gracchi. I however am more of a fan of the Oath of Horatii.
The painting?
The painting depicts a scene with the triplets
Horatius was the first to be pardoned by the public process that picked Barabbas over Jesus, yes?
Historical esoterica is not usually the province of these pages...
the painting is based on something more than just painting three random brothers. its the symbolism that is implied. There is historical context to it, the reason i referenced Jaques painting. If i mentioned it any other way i think no one would have picked up.
amongst the few, some of you do appreciate it. We know who they are.
you got me there, however speaking of barabbas, he got a bum rap to begin with. Was Barabbas a murderer? Only Nancy Grace knows LOL
Haha..form historical esoterica to low culture in one feel swoop!
Bread and circuses...then and now...the more things change...
Obviously the 47% that Romney was speaking about was something more like 50.7%.
Romney is not known for being good at math.
Hey Republicans - This 52 yo white guy who has worked non-stop for the last 34 years received from the Democratic presidency a commitment that they would NOT throw my SS on the wall street craps table.
Thanks Mr. President.
I received some free condoms, I'm good!
Romney claimed Obama bought the election by giving gifts to select groups I guess he doesn't consider his 20% tax cut an attempt tp buy votes. It worked for Reagan and twice for Bush but no one was taking Romney for only 20%, maybe half.
Romney represented the entitlement class. They are entitled to have everything.
@Dangerfield: I enjoy the hell outta you. Having said that now; you get mean with me and I'll cut you.
There is a certain disconnect between talking about bipartisanship and continuing to use the same adolescent rhetoric and trash talk about destroying the folks you are so keen on compromising with.
Compromise requires both parties staking out positions that have room for negotiation. Compromise generally leaves both parties in the negotiation less than satisfied. Compromise means that both sides give up things they want to get the things they need.
Is compromise possible when both sides believe the other is absolutely wrong?
Dangerfield,
Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that during the press conference yesterday, Barrack said that he will compromise. I did not hear him say that proposals HAD to include anything in particular. It sounded to me like he is open to not increasing any taxes if that is what is best for the country and that he would consider raising taxes on the rich and for that matter, the middle class if that is what it takes. He is open to finding the solution and not simply driving his agenda down the throats of anyone.
Now, let's get those new roads built, so we can get on with re-building America after all the problems that Bush caused!
How many wives have you had?
The "art" of compromise is a dance that requires two participants, and both must be capable of backing up their words with action.
--------------------------------------------------------
Instead of a "Honeymoon" period after the elections, it's more like the "THE HONEYMOONERS"...
Let's hope we don't all wind up in Bellevue (or wish that we were)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have been married 4 times less than Henry the VIII...
I haven't spoken to my wife in years. I didn't want to interrupt her.
In addition - is it possible for 2 political parties who are polar opposites on just about every issue to get together and compromise?
Compromise must start with each side accepting the legitimacy of the other side's arguments.
When your party's chosen candidate loses an election and blames it not on losing the argument but on the other side wanting 'free stuff' it certainly makes thing more difficult.
Deficit reduction can come through economic growth, increased revenues or decreased spending. Some combination of all three should be on the table at the start of the negotiations.
There has been very little or no "growth" under Obama. Obama has ALREADY raised taxes on the wealthy through Obamacare (you'll have to read the bill to see what's in it)) and the only thing he is willing to gut (yes, the spelling is correct) is our military ! For everything else, Obama has his magic plastic to increase our National Debt like it is on steroids !
So, in essence, the Republican part of the "Compromise" has aleady been reached with higher taxes on the wealthy. Let's see .... there is a new Medicare tax of 3.8% on investment income for those making above $200k/$250k per annum, a tax on earned income of .9% for the same levels of $200k/$250k and a whole bunch of sneaky little taxes designed to punish those who are less healthy ... by reducing their ability to claim medical deductions, reduction in cafeteria plans for medical expenses, and excise taxes on medical devices > $100.
Geez ! I guess all the libs MISSED these tax increases from Obama .... some on the middle class !!
One final point, Obama has now changed his rhetoric from raising taxes on the wealthiest 1% of Americans to the top 2% ! Do we hear 4% ? It's funny how he keeps flip-flopping on what he says !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wonder how people like Romney currently paying 10.3% will be able to put food on the table with Obama raising their taxes a few percent. Poor things. Obama's always used the cutoff of 200K/250K as the cutoff point since his first campaign. Whether that's 1% or 2% makes no difference.
As to yesterday's spats ...
The words racist and misogynist have been tossed around with little thought as to why. Both sides are wrong to do so but we must temper our accusations by asking why. I address this as a Caucasian male who has seen laws passed to bring the 'others' onto the field of fair play. Laws do not change attitudes overnight and this is still a white male dominated society like it or not. So my fellow white guys settle in for continued backlash as too many of us are still on the wrong side.
Hi blackcatwhitecat,
The word racist has been over-used and pulverized in to meaninglessness. I agree, laws do not change attitudes. But I am not sure the continuing backlash has so much to do with too many of us being on the wrong side as it is with what I see as a continuing and unhealthy obsession with race in general. We are not allowed to overlook race. We are continually pounded with racial statistics from government and media, most of them utterly meaningless. If I was in any way a conspiracy theorist I would maintain the government wants to promote racism for its own nefarious purposes. Does it really matter how many "African Americans" voted for Mr. Obama? Why not then how many "German Americans?" Why can't we all just be Americans?
People of all colors and flavors bear equal responsibility in the race relation equation. Every racial makeup has subjugated another at some point (or points) in their histories. Regarding yesterday's spats I was waiting to see if either of the participants would prove the bigger person and back down from their fruitless accusations.
So, after much sound and fury about the Petraeus affair being one great big conspiracy theory to keep him from testifying before Congress on Benghazi, guess who will testify before Congress on Benghazi tomorrow?
Happy now?
Don't hold your breath waiting for a reply DaNoid. They (meaning the teapublicans) are all feverishly working on their next angle.
Found that angle. Behind closed doors. Once again we will hear what we are told we need to hear.
How many wives have you had?
Including my own? I'll take the fifth on that question.
You have a fine future in politics ahead of you.
As Oliver North once said about 400 times, "I have no recollection of that at this time".
Now that man was a politician!
Kinda like my Governor, Rick Scott, on medicare fraud,. He plead the fifth so many times they gave him a plaque with the fifth printed on it with his picture!
I was going to plead the fifth but I drank it first.......
It is really disappointing to see how Romney is blaming others for his failure. As a Presidential candidate you would hope that he had more integrity than that. It just amazes me how smart people can fool themselves into believing anything other than their own shortcomings or misguided efforts could be responsible for lack of success. And on top of this the Republican mantra is supposed to be 'Personal Responsibility'.
The McCain and Graham witch hunt continues and the partisanship issue again rears its ugly head. A Watergate type investigation is needed for this incident. Really. Talk about a waste of taxpayer money. Attacks on our country used to bring us closer together. Now the Republican's have decided that it is far more important to try to win political talking points. Ridiculous.
"It is really disappointing to see how Romney is blaming others for his failure"
It's disappointing but not at all unexpected. Beside the fact that he was one of the most dishonest candidates to ever run for President, Mitt Romney LOST because he was a lousy candidate, (even most Republicans didn't much like him) with lousy ideas, who picked a lousy VP, the had a lousy convention and ran a lousy campaign.
Why do they not label this entire series of articles what it really is it is the liberal comment rag. They try to write it as a news article when in all reality it is a far left opinion page. It should be titled the leaning tower of liberalism. Fox news leans the other way but a least they try to have some liberal point of view in it. Msn.cbs has liberal reporters orgasmic on every word the Messiah says.
Obama, you know it, I know, the Newsvine posters know it, the Fiscal Cliff was a scare term made up by Ben Bernanke to keep us from facing the reality of our debt and overspending. If we go over it it's no big deal except for maybe some banksters like Ben Bernanke.
Alan,
We don't have to worry about the fiscal cliff. As soon as the rich people start paying more, our financial worries are over. They caused the problem with their crazy borrowing for their big fancy houses. Now they need to pay up. Barrack will get them to pay one way or another. They won't miss some of their money because they have so much. It is us little guys that cannot afford to give money to the government. Ask your boss how the greens look at his country club. Then take a look at the sparse patches in your own front yard. We have the constitutional right to have our lawns look just as nice as the rich people. That is why they said that "All men are created equal" Have you priced a bag of fertilizer lately? I'll bet it is so expensive because the fat cats have made the Chinese commies send the fertilizer all the way from China. This does not help us at all. Bring the jobs back to America and keep the fat cats from making more money by making the fertilizer here in America. There is plenty of 'fertilizer' being made in the House and Senate right now!
Agreed about the senate making fertilizer but the constitution give us the right to pusue to have the money to have a nice lawn, it does not guarantee it!
Romney is right, and still you all get all upset about it. He was right about the 47% too. As you all say, get over it. Obama Claus won. Now come steal more of my money you motherless ****.
Are you in the 1%?
Roger Carter
Except that, people are notorious for not voting in their best interests, or for logical reasons. People in the military supported George W. Bush, for example, despite the fact he and his VP had declined to serve in combat when the country was at war in Vietnam. Have Republicans "gifted" the military over the years? Does anyone think the Republicans have been more generous in beneifts to veterans?
No, what Romney doesn't acknowledge, and which is part of why he would have been a bad President, is people vote for the one who seems to embody their ideals. Romney didn't embody the ideals of aspiring Latinos and African Americans, or resonate with white, single women, either, for that matter. People don't vote for logical reasons, they vote for the one who can best articulate their ideals.
Actually, you and Romney are wrong. Romney received a large chunk of votes of the 47%ers - you know, those retired people you and Romney so detest and abhor that don't make enough money to warrant paying Federal taxes.
Oh well, at least we can enjoy the look on you and Romney's sorry faces as we 'steal' more of your money. That picture will be worth a thousand words.
I should explain, what I meant was, the fact Romney doesn't understand why he lost he election, just illustrates why he lost. Jeb Bush hit the nail on the head, when he pointed out that Romney made the campaign about himself, and not about the people he wanted to lead. I saw it during the primaries: the way Romney posed for pictures, staring into the camera, instead of looking at the folks with him, the way Obama does. Obama is often photographed looking into peoples eyes, Romney, looking at the camera.
Right on Red Dev.
And it is not really stealing when the rich people have so much. They won't miss it and we can use it to pay for basic nessecities like food and water. If redistribution is all about making sure that us normal folk don't starve or get too thirsty, I am all for redistribution. Say, how much water can a fat cat on wallstreet drink? Water comes from the sky and we have every right to it as much at the 1%'ers do.
As for Romney, he needs to just fade away. He has stolen all the money he has and does not need to steal any more. If he tries to steal any more, we need to just take it from him. Taking it from him is not really stealing, since he has so much and he made all his money by sending jobs to China. He needs to show us his tax returns so we can take some of his millions. Barrack should use his presidential powers to get the IRS to audit Romney until his only transportation is that fancy horse that his wife has. Let him try to ride that to his filthy job at Bain capital. I hope he gets a bad case of saddle sores.
You do realize that a good portion of the 47%'ers are elderly right? Shame on you.
Pleased to Mr.Romney make his final flip flop to obscurity.He makes it clear his continued disdain for half the country.i hope for a speedy recovery for glowing red noses that were pinched while voting for him.
RogerCarter-6809219 - Part of the 47% is my son, a Navy veteran, who is a single father, getting very little child support from his ex, who works a horrendous schedule to keep a roof over the head of his 5 year old son, food on the table, clothes on their backs. He also picks up whatever odd jobs he can find to stretch his budget. He has bought a house but is struggling - really struggling - to keep up with everything. Make whatever judgments you wish, as many times as you wish, but it won't make you correct about who the 47% are, or what they want, or what they are doing, or trying to do.
Annie--please thank your son for his service and give him {{hugs}} for being such a standup guy. You raised him well! This is what Romney just never understood---there are people whose life circumstances have put them in a place where they aren't currently paying a lot of income taxes. It doesn't mean they are deadbeats or that they haven't paid taxes before or won't in the future and fails to recognize that they pay other taxes, like sales taxes, etc. My guess is that the GOP have lost his vote permanently. And they don't even realize it.
Steeler Fan - First, I would thank him, except he is uncomfortable with thanks from anyone (did you read the article about that very thing? They could have been talking to him).
Next, no the GOP probably hasn't lost his vote permanently. We are a family of moderate independents. We vote for the person, not the party. Depends on who the candidates are, always.
Annie,
Some people like Roger Carter will never get it. Your son did a great service for all of us and continues to for his own son. It is all of our responsibility to make sure your son has what he needs to care for your grandchild. That is what makes a society great. If people don't want to participate in a great society, they need to be forced to so that people like your son and grandchild don't have to suffer. Sounds like the ex wife is a real low life cheapscate. She needs to pony up her fair share just like the creeps on wall street. If not, maybe she can move to China and get a job there and send back the alimony she needs to pay.
Roger, those were my thoughts exactly when I read what Mr. Romney had to say. I do believe that the liar in chief set up the groups with bribes of sort and to find them laughable is not true. Those groups that think they are getting what obummer promised will be greatly surprised very shortly. Illegal immigration needs some "hands on" restrictions, and those that have applied legally, need to come first. However, it would be appreciated if the American citizen came first in this country!
Annie---your son may not want our thanks but the nation is grateful for his service anyway!
It will be interesting to see what kind of choices moderate independents have. We'll see if the GOP learns any lessons. So far--not so much!
Patricia Larsen - what are you - 5 years old? "Obummer?" I certainly hope you didn't reproduce because you would be a sham as a mother. Grow up - your ignorance is your problem - don't inflict it on the rest of us!
By all means SS, we all know you show enough "ignorance" every time you post !
Hey libbie, care to explain the tax increases on the wealthy that already exist in Obamacare ?
How about the change in Obama's rhetoric from the 1% to the 2% ... care to explain ??
Boehner needs to do his job and get work with the President and Dems in the House to get a compromise. And by that I mean stop the tax cuts for the 2%, as majority of Americans want.
Any time Boehner even seems to be willing to compromise, he gets his hands slapped by Norquist or the Tea Party and has to come back and once again say "no" to tax increase for 2%.
GOP lost the election, they lost the presidency and lost seats in both House and Senate - they need to realize their "my way or the highway" is not what Americans want.
BTW, I sure hope the blue dogs and wimpy Dems get a backbone and support President Obama...it is time for Dems to come together for good of nation.
StopWastingMyMoney
Republicans lost seats in the House, and they failed to gain seats in the Senate. Tea Party candidates lost the most. When voters chose Republicans, they were moderates. Exit polls show voters want the leaders to compromise.
StopWastingMyTime,
Silly comment. Baseless.
The larger the voting pool, the bigger the Democrat benefit.
Only in the gerry-mandered House of Reps did Repubs hold on to some seats.
It's like asking if Beverly Hills elected a rich guy to be Mayor. What real choice did they have in the matter?
Isnt it enough that you lost senate and house seats AND the election? What more do you want?
"If the majority of America wanted to change things.....why didn't they give the POTUS a Democratic Congress?......"
Try again tea-bagger. Democrats gained Senate in the Senate and the House. In fact -- it you add up all the House votes in every district, Democratic House members had more than 500,000 votes than Republicans. And your tea bag candidates got their asses handed to them across the nation.
Now you can continue with this Fox/Limbaugh fantasy that somehow you won if that's your choice but the nation knows that tea parties are for little girls and their imaginary friends.
Hey: "electiondaycometh"...why did you change your name...because you embrassed yourself by being so wrong about the election.
And now, with a new name you are still embrassing yourself....LOL!
"a Democratic Congress like you had in 2008 would be nice."
This isn't 2010. Again -- the nation knows that tea parties are for little girls and their imaginary friends. Your tea big candidates got their asses handed to them in 2012.
Dear President Obama,
I would like to officially register my complaint. I, being a hardworking aspiring middle class white woman voted for you to support the aspiring middle class. It has come to my attention courtesy of the Tea Party and Fox News that I am owed a gift of some sort. Since I have as of now received only high quality leadership and piece of mind, I am wondering what the hold up is on my "hand out" that the Right seems to think I received. Please keep me posted. Thank you!
Dear Go Obama,
In regards to your "free" gift complaint, currently your free gift is on a container ship inbound from China. Unfortunatly, Willard Mitt Romney, sent the free gift making company overseas to save a buck.
Please be patient everyone will get their gifts eventually. :)
We on the left did get a gift. By re-electing Obama we didn't get Romney and Ryan and the huge step backwards that would have inflicted on on for decades to come. Considering that the HCA is now the law of the land, the top bracket tax evaders will be having to pay their share, and there's a good chance one or two Supreme Court justices could be appointed, that's the kind of gift that keeps on giving.
So, lets build on that and hope for more change in reclaiming the House in 2014 or at least purging it of enough people like McConnell and others that exist only to obstruct any progress to move us ahead.
Careful what you post fuzzy44... they're a LOT of stupid people out there that will take you seriously
Go_Obama! and Fuzzy
Thanks for the laugh! I so agree...the gift Romney failed to offer anyone, was a compelling reason for voting for him.
Yes indeed there are Ninja!
Right now, Thousands in red state trailer parks are checking their mailboxs for their hand outs.
Just because they didn't vote for the Pres. , doesn't mean they don't want their freebees!
Dear Go Obama,
We New Hampshire Democrats are extremely anxious, like you, to receive our gifts! We are hoping for extra snow this year so that we can ski as much as we want to. Since our Republican friends assure us that President Obama is responsible for EVERYTHING that happens in the universe, we are confident that he will attend to our gift in time for the upcoming ski season.
In the meantime, we are pleased with the gift we already have received: a Romney-free White House.
There is no room for compromise. We will go over the cliff and repubicans will get blamed for it (according to every poll). We have gotten to the point in this country where arguing over a 2 or 3% income tax increase is an argument over moral high ground. We have had generations of men and women who gave their lives and their children and any future they had to preserve this country and never questioned whether any one else was doing their fair share or not. Now we have a couple of generations of people whose only contribution to this country is to pay income tax and they whine about that like they were gut shot. We taught our children they were special and by God they believe it.
Pat in Boston Ma....
You forgot Ryan...world's worst liar in the House, and his sidekick...Mutt..'I failed after running for 6 years to satisfy my ego'..... btw Mitt showed his true colors yesterday.. He cares about the 100% ?????? Really?????Of what millionaires...sore grumpy old white man.. he fits the bill ($1,000 bill that is) Go away GNOP!!!!!
this is just priceless. New headline "jobless claims surge because of Sandy". That is so funny I almost forgot to laugh. Well folks, we might see some real unemployment numbers now that the election is over. Hold on to your hats, because they aren't going to be very good. Remember though it is because of Sandy. WOW!!
That is candy for the dumb libs. Anybody with half a brain sees the destruction ahead.
Businesses are closed for an indefinite amount of time. People are still out of power after two weeks. There will be a lot of construction and cleanup jobs created, but it won't make up for the loss of jobs in the service sector, offices, etc... until some major rebuilding is done. Your tone is insulting as if these people caused their own problems or they somehow aren't deserving of help for the situation they are in until they can get back on their feet.
I can only suppose you'd prefer the kind of relief Romney and Ryan would provide which would include a national prayer day and leaving all the rebuilding to the private sector and faith based non-profits. The affected people can always just borrow a couple hundred grand from their families to start over and those with stingy relatives who won't help them financially can just die since by being "takers" they're just a drain on the "makers" anyway.
And when you're affected by a personal tragedy like this at some point in your life, we surely won't expect you to expect any public help or to apply for unemployment benefits either.
Didnt you yammer on about that 4 years ago? Now sit down and let the adults fix this mess.
Congress is not repub. The house is repub - senate is dem.
For now.
I expect you will lose the house within the next few years.
Hey: "electiondaycometh"...why did you change your name...because you embrassed yourself by being so wrong about the election.
And now, with a new name you are still embrassing yourself....LOL!
oh and Mike I am reffering to the fact that Sandy is not the cause of unemployment numbers going up. I guess that was over your head. I said nothing bad about the victims. But Sandy is not the cause of jobess claim surge. Oh and Mike that has already happened to me. I can't get any help with my bills, I make to much, and I am married. I will gladly pay for them myself. I don't need anything from the Government.
LOL You don't need anything from the government but you just admited you can't get anything because you are married and make to much. Which means you went down like the slacker you are and applied for 'freebies" but were denied. So you ARE the very moocher you whine about.
shellie--dumbass I am making a point, if you are married and making a living you don't get anything but to pay for all that don't. I would not apply for anything, I have pride in myself unlike you asswipes. I need to go to work now and pay for everyones free @!$%#. Later!
The Slimy Snake called Hussein leaves some "wiggle room." So he can Shuck and Jive on YOUR Money. Swallow Up Kool-Aid Drinkers and Grab Your Ankles. Hussein wants to Wiggle his way in.
"Shuck and Jive"? "Hussein"?
You just lost all your credibility. If you want to live in the 1950s, then stay the @!$%# off the internet.
And who are you mike-464493, the Internet police ? We have to listen to a LOT of liberal drivel from you lefties. Is free speech limited to only those who have your same opinion on everything ??
Alan may be more correct than you think. Obama has ALREADY raise taxes on the wealthy through Obamacare, and now his rhetoric has changed from the 1% "paying their fair share" to the 2% !! I would not be at all surprised if Obama INTENTIONALLY let the Bush tax cuts expire so he could raise taxes on everyone. Obama no longer has to worry about re-election so this will simply give him more to redistribute !
That would really be a kick in the a$$ to all those middle-class fools who actually believed Obama cared !
sometimes, you just have to say "NO" to stupid people. If you have teenagers, you will know exactly what I'm talking about. It's amazing what results you get when you start to say "NO" to stupid.
No,
we are not expanding the military and going off to war. No, we are not going to
force women to bear rape babies- Roe W wade stands. No, not getting rid of PBS.
No, we are not going to post the 10 commandments on federal buildings and name
everything Reagan. No, we are not going to teach religion as fact and science
as faith. No, we are not converting to Mormon. No, we are not going to can fuel
efficiency standards and eliminate alternative energy incentives. No, we are
not going to make Medicare a voucher program. No, we are not putting SS funds
in risky investments. No, we are not bailing out banks and giving billionaires
more tax breaks. No, we are not going to expand the deficit with more tax cuts
and wars. No, we are not going to go back to free health care in emergency
rooms for uninsured. No, no more tax breaks for offshore companies. No, you are
not going to succeed from the union.
They then roll on the floor and throw a tantrum. It's so cute!
NO government corruption and mismanagement will continue thriving SSDD
Comparing the GOP to teenagers is an insult to teenagers. At least there is hope for them!
Again... it's Obama who is ready to make a deal and comprimise. And Ryan again who thinks it has to be his way or nothing else. GOP is causing the gridlock. As an independent, it's hard to ever imagine voting for the GOP again if they continue this behavior. It's wrong for our country. Comprimise and Democracy go hand in hand... not everyone will get exactly what they want. Obama seems to get that. GOP? Not so much.
Let the insults fly...
the same guy who thinks he "won" a mandate, priceless!
I keep hearing the President is willing to compromise, I'm still waiting to hear the President compromises, I have not heard of one yet, can someone tell me exactly what they ARE??
How about Obama saying that for every $2.50 in spending cuts, he wants $1 in revenue.
He's willing to cut programs that his base supporters don't want cut. They were mad at him for being willing to make the cuts.
He said he's willing to negotiate on the tax increase for the wealthy.
Can you give some examples of the GOP being willing to comprimise?
Freaky,
Yesterday he said that he would have the 1%er pay a little more in taxes. He did not say they would need to pay a LOT more in taxes. Now it is time for Beohnmer to step up and say that he will tax everyone else less than the fat cats are getting taxed. That would be real compromise on his part. Barrack has offered his part of the deal, now you smelly fat cat wall street types need to pony up your fair share. And by the way, the title of this article is wiggle room; that means that Barrack has plenty of room to wiggle (Compromise). It was not titled: "Barrack takes a hard line on discussing taxes for the sleazy fat cats"
Get ready for your taxes to go up up up....
consumers and businesses will pay much higher taxes next year if a package of
tax increases and spending cuts known as the "fiscal cliff" takes effect as
scheduled Jan. 1.
The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says the measures would push the
economy into recession and drive the unemployment rate to 9.1 percent next year.
The rate is now 7.9 percent.
Below are the main elements. The estimated dollar figures are for calendar
year 2013:
Amount, in billions
Higher taxes on income below $250,000, higher estate taxes, alternative
minimum tax.
$279
Higher taxes on income above $250,000.
52
Expiration of Social Security tax cut.
115
Expiration of temporary tax breaks for businesses and individuals.
110
Expiration of extended unemployment benefits.
30
Defense spending cuts.
32
Across-the-board cuts to education, health, law enforcement, other
programs.
53
Total
671
Source: CBO, Tax Policy Center
The tax increases wouldn't affect everyone equally, though all taxpayers
would pay more. Here are the average increases for people at different income
levels:
Income level
Tax increase
Lowest 20% ($20,113 or less)
$412
Low-middle 20% ($20,114 - $39,790)
1,231
Middle 20% ($39,791 - $64,484)
1,984
Upper-middle 20% ($64,485 - $108,266)
3,540
Highest 20% ($108,267 and above)
14,173
Top 1% ($506,210 and above)
120,537
Source: Tax Policy Center
Obama beat Romeny by a bigger electoral college margin than Bush beat Kerry and you people called it a mandate. Do you need a dictionary?
EPH251 you said "How about Obama saying that for every $2.50 in spending cuts, he wants $1 in revenue" So what's being cut? you said "He's willing to cut programs that his base supporters don't want cut. They were mad at him for being willing to make the cuts." Specifically what programs? You said "He said he's willing to negotiate on the tax increase for the wealthy." All I've heard him say is he is NOT willing to compromies on this one! You said "Can you give some examples of the GOP being willing to comprimise?" I asked what his cut/compromies were? I'm just trying to get all of the information, saying you will cut but NOT saying what you will cut does not give me any information.
mike--what about that popular vote?? The country is split in half, I hardly call that a mandate. Keep spinning it though!
Last time I checked 48% is not half. Not only do you need a dictionary, looks like you need a calculator as well. Maybe a 1st grade teacher could help pls. LOL
no Shellie it is half. There are many people that don't vote.
The brutal truth.
If I have to pay more in taxes when or if the Fiscal Cliff reaches - my share will be in excess of $14,000
The only thing that will make me happy is it's costing Romney and Adelson 10's or maybe even 100's of millions.
Romney's correct about the Panderer in Chief who did use every and any means necessary to win at any cost. Even if it meant buying votes with promises using taxpayer dollars.
Chuck Todd forgot to add this to his liberal leaning diatribe.
Romney lost because of policy. Until the republicans accept that, they will lose and lose again
Obama only had to convince 4% of the voters to vote for him. Even I could have done that. He already bought 47% of the votes before he even started campaigning. He fixed the race because he knew how greedy and lazy his base was and they would sell their first born for a obama phone.
You're in denial. I'm not in the 47% you talk about and I support Obama. How do you convince yourself when the facts/truth are staring you in the face?
Bewildered, I sure hope the republican leadership believes that BS
I'm in the 1% and I voted for Obama. Why? Because I place a higher value on doing the right thing for our country than having a few extra bucks in my wallet. I am ashamed of the wealthy who would rather see our country fail than pay a little extra. Extraordinary selfishness, IMO.
Wow! I'm not in the 47% either, I have a job and a house with a mortgage. I will probably have to pay a little more in taxes. But I don't mind. Because it is for the good of our country.
What's your problem Bewildered?
From the John Prine song Dear Abby:
Bewildered, Bewildered you have no complaint!
You are what you are and you ain't what you aint!
So NH how much extra did you send the Government with your taxes last year?
Talk,
Your point being? Your strategy of taking the talk into the weeds won't wash. Whether I paid anything extra last year has nothing to do with my statement above.
I am willing to pay my fair share, and if that fair share increases (as it should) I will pay it gladly. Sorry you don't like it, but it's the truth. I also keep all of my money in the USA where it is unhidden and taxable.
And who decides what is "FAIR" ? Does Dictator Obama decide, or do our elected members of Congress decide as evidenced through the existing tax code that has been changed and modified over many decades ?
By the way, NHLucky-661693, you ALREADY WILL be paying more taxes through Obamacare ..... reduced medical deductions, increased AGI floor, 3.8% Medicare taxes on investment income and .9% on earned income. There is more .... excise taxes on medical devices over $100, excise taxes on tanning salons, etc.
You did "READ the bill" did you not ..... you know, to see what's in it ???????
I am clearly not in the 2% (yes, Obama's rhetoric has now changed from the 1%), and I voted on the team most likely to give the U.S. a BUDGET while our country is $16 trillion in debt ! I voted for Romney/Ryan because Obama has never had a budget, nor has he had a fiscal clue !!!
"Obama only had to convince 4% of the voters to vote for him. Even I could have done that."
Well, what did I say? The bastard will tax Not just the "rich" but EVERYONE ELSE. And that is just what the bastard is doing to all of us...... So I hope those of you that voted for the bastard are ready to pay out of your asses for him.....
He is NO President of mine.
I'm ashamed to say we're both Americans. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
Did you move yet? or are you seceding from the US? If not, HE IS YOUR PRESIDENT! GET OVER IT!
Time to put on your big boy pants and grow up!
eph521--don't be ashamed, you can send in more taxes anytime. IRS will always take money, go ahead!
Outdoorsman,
You are kidding right? If you are talking about the extra money for your health insurrance, that is not a tax. You and your fancy fat cat wall street buddies need to pay your fair share. I don't think Barrack is going to tax us middle calss people. He is going to be able to fix our debt problem and fund all the government programs by just taxing the fat cat 1, 2 or 5%'ers just a little bit more.
An another thing, the Obamaphone was around long before he even got elected. He just added his name to it and that did not cost us one additional red cent. The phones are made very cheaply and it probobly costs less to give everyone an Obamaphone than the amount of money that Grover Norquist steals from the middle class in a single hour.
@plsthink90 - if you think it's a simple issue of taxes going up or down, you are drinking the GOP kool-aid. And for the record, I make enough money that my taxes will go up and yet I still support Obama. Hmmm. Maybe there's more to it than taxes. My eyes are wide open.
The supreme court said it was a tax and because it is a tax obammy can make you pay it, otherwise it is unconstitutional because the government cannot make you buy anything!
JC you might want to check the latest from the tax policy center on that no taxing us in the middle class...ie 21.5 above
I'm fine with a tax if it means all Americans have health care. I'm also fine with existing taxes that insure all Americans have an Army/Navy, Fire Dept, Police Dept, Schools, etc. I'm also fine supporting my fellow man who is poor, disabled, elderly or too young to take care of themselves. I'm not ok with the very rich paying less taxes than someone earning much less.
news flash, ALL Americans will still not have healthcare. The ones that can't afford it now will pay the penalty, it will be cheaper. Guess what..still no healthcare.
JustRed,
I don't believe it. Barrack says that us middle class don't have to pay more taxes; that the greasy, slimy, god hating wall street fat cats have to pay for it. He is the President. I'm pretty sure the President is not allowed to lie like that Romney fellow. Romney is just a big fat liar and Paul Ryan looks like Pugsley from the Adams Family. Besides, if the taxes go up, so will the unemployment checks, food stamps and all that other stuff. The president is too smart to not see that we would still be in the same boat if he raises the taxes on anybody except the cold hearted, idiotic, nympho-necro, beastyalitist wall street fat cats.
JC---you are truely clueless, have fun paying your fair share. What a nut!
Outdoorsman,
To be perfectly clear, President Obama is NOT a bastard. He is the perfectly legitimate son of Stanley Dunham and Barack Obama who were married to one another at the time, born in Hawaii, USA.
Please adjust your rhetoric to reflect this reality.
Typical response from a 1%er. Just because you don't agree, you start calling me names, like clueless. Barrack knows that the only people that can afford to pay more right now are the bloated, ugly, bed-wetting, pimple ridden, homosexual hating wall street fat cats. If he takes more away from the middle class and the poor, we will just demand more services provided by the government so there will be no change in the amount of debt so the fiscal cliff would not help at all. We are the ones that voted him in. He will not turn his back on us. Sorry if it bothers you that everybody gets to have free healthcare now. Get over it, You lost the election.
If it makes you feel any better, I used to think like you do, but then I wised up and learned how much better the Democrats are. They are the only ones that really care about America and want to make sure that everybody, not just the bigoted, racist, impotent, smelly-fart wall street fat cats, get all the good things in life. I struggled and worked hard as a Repube and it did not get me very far. Now I have moved to the other side and I am looking forward to Barrack taking care of me instead of just taking from me.
JC just givin you fax as the cdbo putts out yoour choice to bury you head in the sand. we will ALL pay more taxes...gotta be to cut the deficit...sucks but it will have to come to pass citizen
Uh, who the hell told you that Obamacare was going to be free? That just goes to show how you liberals are so entranced by the rockstar persona of Obama, that you aren't seeing what his other hand is doing...screwing America. If you think that healthcare will be free, then you are in for a shock. Also, watch the quality of healthcare spiral down when it goes into effect. I'm in the healthcare field, I know what's coming. The healthcare field will lose lots of jobs because of the cuts and restrictions that will be applied to it as a result of Obamacare and the pricetag to fund it. Doctors will retire early and there will be less new doctors when they learn how the field is changing. Look for longer wait times across the board and less quality doctors. Do I think everyone should have healthcare? Yes, but not this way. The Obamacare is not the answer. You'll see. It's not the answer everyone is looking for. Guaranteed. It's exchanging quality healthcare for quantity healthcare. Obamacare was a quick, poorly devised, ploy to put a victory on the board. They want to pull the wool over your eyes and it worked. Obamacare is not what it seems
We can cut the deficit by taxing the gross, fish-faced, doubletalking, pee drinking wall street fat cats. There is no reason to tax the middle class and the poor. Barack says that he won't tax us and I believe him. If the 1%ers won't pay the tax, then we will default on the loans and the collection agencies will take the money from where it is (In the hands of the stinkin wall street fat cats). Once they take all their money, the loans will be paid off and, walla, we are out of debt. I'm pretty sure Barack already knows this and that is why he is not worried about the debt. You don't have to worry either unless you are one of the top earners, then it is your turn to pay up.
MFontmt,
Obamacare is the greatest thing since sliced bread. They can't claim pre-existing conditions and they have to give it to everybody. I know that there are lots of people that want to see autistic and downs syndrome kids get dropped from the insurrance so that the CEOs of the insurance company can make a gazillion more dollars than they already do, but good Americans don't think this way. We want all the kids taken care of and where in the heck do you expect some poor kid with heart cancer to come up with the money to pay for his doctor bills or to pay for insurance. He is not old enough to get a good job in the union, so he has to get paid minimum wage and can't afford health insurance. Why would you want to deny him all the advantages of Obamacare? I think your gloom and doom view is just because you are mad that Romney did not win. Just wait and see, Obamacare will end up costing a lot less than most people think and it will be paid for by the slimeball fat cats on wall street, not us hard working stiffs. Barack will see to that. He is looking out for the little guy because he can relate to us. He does not drive around on some fancy dancing horse.
Ok JC in G,if Obama care is so grate then why did they just passed a law stateing that the president and the hill are exempt from Obama care? Why is this? Do you like the Government to tell you what to do and how to do it but they dont have to follow the same rules.That is one of the reason why we left England in the first place and here it is again . No i cry foul ,shame on you Mr.President not to belive in your own program but want to stuff in down our neck holes.
Because some people don't like Barack. If they saw him in the waiting room, they might try to harm him. It's not fair to have someone try to harm you while you are in the doctor's waiting room. He is not "Stuffing this down our neck holes", he is gently sliding it into our hands. The fact that we now have free healthcare does not mean that Barack cannot have free healthcare too. He just gets his delivered to him in a different package. Do you think the sleazy, good-for-nothing, dirty diaper mouthed wall street fat cats have to sit in waiting rooms like you and I and Barack? Not a chance, they get to go to a private doctor and sip champagne while they are waiting. They probably don't even get sick that much because they have so much money that they stole from all the investors.
JC in G...I think I love you. (posted from my fancy dancing horse....)
Romney is now out with his explanation as to why he lost the election with that beings some stupid stuff about free gifts from Pres, Obama. Maybe he can continue to lead the republican party.
The republicans are truly the party of delusion
Free Obama phone..And it works like the White House..Part time.Dont call 911 on it you never get connected..haha
we need to go off the cliff and really fix the problems with the spending . time to pay up all of the people. the priesident wants to divide us more and as usual is making one group hate the other. we all need to be taxed evenly
Yeah, and the republicans are really uniting our country. Is that what you're trying to say? When you say stuff like it's all Obama's fault, it just shows you don't know what you're talking about and you're biased. Both parties need to do better.
yes both need to do better, but if you dont stop the leak then bailing out the boat will not stop it from sinking. so the first order is to stop the spending frenzy. then look at where you are to evaluat the needs for more incomming funds. Fix the internal wastes first before asking for more money.
eph So for 4 years everyone blamed Bush...so turn about is fair...what there is now is Obama's no one else's. He used that to get elected and he used it everytime something did not go his way....So now if you do not like what is going on then vote all of those in Congress OUT! Not that much will change but maybe some new blood would be good..
If the Federal Governement keeps on spending the way they ARE, we do not have to worry about the fiscal CLIFF, last month Oct 2012 the federal government over spent by another 120 BILLION, right on course for another trillion dollar deficit for this comming fiscal year which I believe for the Fed is Sept 01 to Aug 31. Before anything else THIS MUST STOP!!!
I agree. The very FIRST thing the Govt needs to do is stop sending more money back to the red states than they pay in. The red states cannot continue to spend more than they raise. Second, all of the red states need to send what they have received over what they paid in for the past two years immediately to NY and New Jersey to take care of the Sandy mess (since after all it is their money the red states have been sucking up all these years). Those two things alone would save the govt tons of money. So freaky, I think your state should be first. What do ya think?