Allmighty Oden will set it right. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3WJX1cIuY4

forrest,

Congress is back in session next week. But in actuality they have secheduled only 22or 29 working days.

You know Thanksgiving, Christmas recess.

The President iwill be speaking tomorrow about the deadlines before the lame duck congress.

I agree that if Congress does not let the tax cuts naturally expire on those making over $250,000 Obama will veto anything else .

So then let everything expire.

As to the spending cuts ready to go into effect on jan1, I think a deal will be made before jan about Defense cuts and other across the board cuts.

If we can't control our spending the easy way, then we'll do it the hard way. Let all the tax cuts expire. Cut DoD. You can't posture away across-the-board budget realities just because it's what your base wants. That goes for both sides.

Knowing our president i know he is going to go for grand bargain.. Something that will include a jobs bill and money for teachers..

Who the hell is Oden did he win a senate race or house seat I am not aware of?

Tee hee hee. Tickle me.

The Democrats have a pat hand. Let the republicons go over the cliff. Agent Orange will not deal this year and get voted out as Speaker next year. So there will be no deal. That also nullifies the party over country pledge to Emperor Norquist.

Only then will any deal be made.

Welcome back Forrest - haven't seen you in a while. You are so right, the cards are in the presidents hand on this one. The GOPTP rather stupidly backed themselves into a corner and the only lifelines to be thrown are all owned by the Democrats. Ain't karma a beeatch.

There is no such thing as a looming "fiscal cliff." There is only a "gentle downward slope" after January 1st and nothing more.

In truth there is NOTHING to be afraid of other than rich people once again paying an amount closer to their fair share.

To fall for the notion of a "cliff" plays into FOX's hands and we need to move in the opposite direction of fear at every turn.

Got to agree with you Forrest. I won't mind paying higher taxes to see the GOPers sweat for a while. The game of chicken has begun! Steady as she goes Mr. President!

While higher taxes would hurt I'm willing to pay them if it will help this great country.

What an opportunistic time for President Obama to shine.History will determine whether or not his re-election was a positive choice based on how he handles the challenges ahead. A great leader or even good one, should be able to work with groups beneath him, helping them to compromise when necessary and stay the course when essential.Who recalls Independence Hall, when our founding fathers locked themselves in and refused to leave until they had finally settled their differences? And there were 13 stubborn states totally independent trying to deliver a unique newborn Republic Independent nation into the world.

With his past four years of experience, he should be ready to seize the reins and lead our nation forward to better economic growth and more jobs.No doubt he has some clear plans, as he mentioned during his campaigning, for helping Americans, especially the middle class.I think I vaguely remember attending there once:P

Cliff, what cliff?( being factitious folks) These are just stepping stones or opportunities for each party to work together to help meet the challenges of running a Republic. It takes three to work things out here- House, Senate and President. Some might say sometimes taking ones medicine, though distasteful as it may seem, in the long run ends up being better.It is just at times the hidden costs are not noticed or taken into account.Or we want someone else to pay for the negative portion. As long as we get the good part ourselves.Whatever happens, maybe I better have a parachute handy. I hear base jumping is quite the sport.Given SuperSandy, the snow storms hitting the east coast and all, maybe it's best to be prepared for anything, if you know what I mean.

I agree let the Bush tax cuts expire for everyone and the automatic spending cuts kick in. Then Washington and certainly Obama is going to hear a ton of screaming. That is when nothing less then a complete overhaul of the tax code which closes loopholes, term limits for members of congress, and a balanced budget amendment will be good enough. We have watched Washington play this game for far too long, anything less will just be more slight of hand. Congress simply cannot be trusted without restraints.

Forest Gump, well said and I hope the president does exactly what you suggest. The republicans own this one through and through.

The President and the democrats should not yield one iota here! Sit it out! This cliff business isn't real anyway. More like one step down. Let these tax cuts expire! Then, aye Gwad, the republicans will either go with what the democrats want, or they will have voted for a huge tax increase. The democrats really have the crazy republicans by their balls on this. I am truly sorry for poor John Boehner. I'm not sure He can make many of his mentally deranged House colleagues understand the untenable position they have put themselves in, must less sit down with the democrats, and try to do something about it.

The President and the Democrats have the upper hand. Republicans voted for this scenario in the first place betting they would win the White House. I can't even say I'm sorry, all I can say is $400,000,000 wasted by Turd Blossom. Hay Carl, Sheldon is calling and boy is he pissed.You told every one on FOX, Romney by a land slide, All the polls are wrong. Oops Wrong again. It was great watching Mittens reading his concession speech from those Teleprompters.

Its time to end the welfare for corporations and the 1%. No corporation making a Billion a year in profit should get away with paying "0" fed tax. Its a slap in the face every veteran who ever served to hear the IRS say, hay GE, BP and Shell you don't have to pay anything in federal taxes the rest of the country will pay for the military that keeps you safe!! The Ryan plan was to cut the Investment income tax to "0" thereby making Romney's effective tax rate less than 1%. Speaking of which, right now Mitts Tax Attorneys are Re-Filing his 2010 return to include the rest of his charitable deductions that will reduce his effective tax rate to 8%.

I believe this "fiscal cliff" as they have coined it is the most non-partisan way to handle the situation. Instead of lobbyists from both sides being able to sway policy, they all lose and our country wins. I don't see it as a cliff, more of a hill that you can''t see the other side of. Perhaps it will be a green valley on the other side where our debts are being paid for by all. As it should be.

Bring it on.

The fiscal cliff is just an excuse the wealthy put forward not to pay their share of taxes, period! Anything other than letting the Bush tax cuts expire only for those making over $250,000 a year would be unacceptable.....Obama won the election, and Clinton proved it to be the only way to balance the federal budget and create jobs. Step two, make the military leaner......

For those thinking this really isn't a fiscal cliff, simply don't understand everything that is at stake. If nothing is done, there will be a recession. There will be job losses from 700,000+.

The fact is, less than 30 working days is not enough time to hammer out a deal that will pass both the House and the Senate.

I am sure that the House will pass "something" that includes revenue increases on those making more than $250,000 (but, it won't be tax rates). It will pass along party lines. Will Harry Reid put it to a vote or will he sit on it? Since this is a tax issue, all tax legislation originates in the House.

dave20121

What is at stake? My kids being forced into sixty years of servitude to pay for the mistakes of those that have voted for special interests and reap no benefit for themselves.

There is no proof that it will cause a recession, or that 700,000 people will lose their jobs. Some of the economists who have come to this conclusion are the same ones that were claiming that the US must deal with its debts before and after the US downgrade. Which is it? You can kick the can down the road as much as you would like with a blindfold on, but when you take of the blinder off you are kicking a tanker truck.

I'm with Rick. Let it all burn down! The only "fair" taxation is a flat tax. Get rid of all loopholes and write-offs. Everyone then pays the same. I'm sick of being between the poor that don't pay and the rich that don't pay.

John-737278: I side with the CBO and my economics degree. If sequestration goes into effect, there will be significant job losses. That is not something anyone can debate. By reducing the DOD budget by 10%, there will be significant cuts in the military industrial complex. There are associated jobs with those industries that will see significant impacts.

An accepted fact is that the US economy is driven 67-70% by the consumer. If the consumer has an increased tax burden (Bush tax cuts expire), coupled with increasing prices in healthcare, food etc. it only makes sense that they will have less discretionary income. Less spending will result in lower corporate revenues, lower demand for products and services. This will result in more layoffs. All you have to do is look at Greece...unemployment has reached 25%.

As far as debt downgrades...it's going to happen eventually. It's going to happen because of much more reasons than exceeding the debt ceiling.

I agree that something must be done. But, I know that neither party is capable of doing what needs to be done.

I'm with the main body of thought here, ...to control spending, we force cuts via a "slightly pretend sequestration". It isn't like the spending cuts all happen like slamming on the brakes Jan. 1st, but they should have a pretty good idea (when the tax cuts expire and the spending cuts take effect) of what they can afford to legislate to extend. There are going to be some tax hikes that stick and some spending cuts that stick - and a few other things that can be done if The People push and pull together.

I expect there will be considerable 'scary noise' from Republican 'business interests' as the date draws near - but, unless they come up with an acceptable deal, I think they should go ahead and 'step off the curb' ('fiscal cliff' sounds scarier than it is according to The Last Word).

It seems to me you all are forgetting that all the Republicans have to do is pass anything they want to and say it is saving the U.S. from the fiscal cliff. Send it to the Senate where Reid and the Dems will look like the bad guy by not even bringing up the bills for debate or vote. In fact, I think I will write to them to do just that. They need to send multiple bills, I would say 10-15 and dare the Dems to not at least debate them and if they make it to Obama, dare him to veto it.

As far as I am concerned, let the current bills stand and lets go FORWARD off the cliff. The government needs a good hair cut.

I'm sure someone has probably said this already but I will say it again:

The leading Republicans in both the House and the Senate have been put on notice. Their strategy to make Obama a one term President has failed. All of the "donations" by the big corporations to the SuperPacs have had a negative effect on their pocket books and now they are put in a position to where they have no choice to play "nice" with the President because he is in the driver's seat per say. If they don't play ball they can literally kiss their jobs good bye in 2014. One of two things in my opinion are going to happen, the grand bargain that was initially presented will magically reappear and this will settle the "sequestration" issue in regards to the military as well as the tax cuts as well as cutting funds from the programs the Dems love so much. That's the best case scenario in my opinion. The second is all the tax cuts expire for everyone(which wouldn't bother me at all) the cuts to defense and other programs go into effect and we all as a country will have to "tighten our belts" to deal with the debt. In order for it to work properly, we have to ensure that there is no increase in spending.

We already see big businesses starting to brace themselves for the enviable and if Congress doesn't put their bickering and obstruction aside, we will be in for another 2 years of slow growth and economic uncertainty and it WON'T be the President's fault.

Considering , Women , had the swing factor to change this election. Considering this means that mothers will not get much if any of a tax return if this goes through. Well then this is just kinda funny.

It seems to me you all are forgetting that all the Republicans have to do is pass anything they want to and say it is saving the U.S. from the fiscal cliff. Send it to the Senate where Reid and the Dems will look like the bad guy by not even bringing up the bills for debate or vote.

Yeah, because that worked out soooo well for them the last time, didn't it? I mean, all those "jobs" bills in the Senate that mean old Harry Reid wouldn't even discuss! That guaranteed Republicans the presidency, didn't it? It helped Republicans gain more seats in the HR and Senate, didn't it?

So please, please, PLEASE write to your Republican Congressmen and suggest, nay, DEMAND that they follow this course again!

For that will surely be the end of the Republican party in Congress after 2014.

The "fiscal cliff" is a non-troversy dreamed up by the wealthy class to "spook the herd" into foolish, ill-advised action that will prolong the system of white-collar Welfare we've had in this country since Bush's tax cuts.

All that will happen is that taxes in this nation will revert to Clintonian levels. Didn't kill us then, won't kill us now.

Trust me.

This is merely a tax avoidance meme cooked up by the GOP to keep their wealthy clients from paying the same tax RATE I do.

I'm not impressed. It'll be a disaster only if we fall for it.

Notice how they've sent their media hounds out to trump up this "looming crisis"? Shove em off the cliff.

Bwahaaha

dave20121

Is that the CBO that thinks the solution is to cut Medicare and SS across the board, rather than making it need based like originally intended? One thing I find infuriating is that some of the people who are making $250,000 plus income on their investments in their IRA's are also some that are collecting SS and Medicare when they don't need it.

We were surviving just fine before the tax cuts went into effect. They is no reason we won't survive them stopping. I remember when they did go into effect. I thought to myself, why are they doing this? Just pay off some debt.

I agree, there will be pain this way, but it is shared pain for the good of the country. Once the debt was paid off, (not that that will ever happen) we would have 43 more cents on the dollar to either fund programs or reduce taxes because less would be needed to have balance. Sort of like having a credit card with a $200 payment per month. Make payments of $1,000 for five months and afterwards, you have an extra $200 in disposable income.

We do agree that partisanship would not get the job done. I find it sad that the only time Congress can agree is when they are spending our money, taking our rights, or doing social engineering that was never in their mandate. They can never agree on saving the taxpayers money, protecting our rights, or minding their own @!$%#ing business. I would propose that since Congress can't come up with a budget, we give them the year off without pay and donate their pay to the debt.

While the Auto Cuts would hurt, that is what is needed to get rid of this DEBT..... NO PAIN NO GAIN..... You really do not think the Tea Party is going to change its Strips do you..?

EEngineer

all those "jobs" bills in the Senate that mean old Harry Reid wouldn't even discuss!

Look what we have here, A Liberal who admits that they were lying about the Republicans not passing any jobs bills and it was Harry Reid who blocked all of them. The world must be coming to an end.

They can't just pass the bills and hope the media will report it as they are in the tank for Obama and won't do it. They will need to make a big show of passing the bills or yes, it will end up another wasted opportunity to show who is really being the obstructionists in congress.

Forest, That is exactly what I was thinking too. Let them all expire and then just introduce new bills to address tax reductions for the middle class.

But you have to remember when dealing with Republicans, we have to use 'Republican Math'. That math that makes them feel better but has no basis in fact or mathematics.

What do you call 24 members of Congress that just got laid off?

A good start.

Day 3 of 10,000 days of darkness. Dark again early, but sun came up again. I went and bought a bunch of shoes, because I heard Obama is going to take away all our shoes.

Got my Ted Nugent CDs and Texas Ranger DVD collection, and lots of bullets. No guns, though. I don't believe in guns. I mean, I believe they exist, but guns are bad. I heard guns kill people, but I have my doubts. It's the bullets, so I got a ton of them. If you attack me, I'll throw them real hard, so you have been warned.

One thing is certain, Obama did not win the election on his economic policy or achievements. His voting base came from a variety of issues that will do nothing to avoid an economic meltdown. He may have won the battle in this election, but we the people, have lost. If he doesn't learn to compromise with congress, we are in for a prolonged recession. "Tax on the rich" may be his battle cry but would do little to solve the bigger problem. Maybe the longest recession in history will be his legacy.

Mr.PheaNiques-0000001

Close my Newsvine account... __X__

So long sucker

John, why is it you think people that pay into a program expecting a return should just be told to bug off? Some people actually worked very hard to accumulate some wealth. Success should be penalized.

I also want to point out that the added tax on people now starts at $100,000 in MD. In the heavily populated areas of MD that does NOT make you rich. But see the slippery slope. Our Democratic Governor, O'Malley , never looks at less spending just more taxes and higher fees.

You voted for Obama so you voted for the Fiscal Cliff. Republicans have made it clear any tax increases right now will throw us into another recession. Democrats have said they don't care but they want to punish "the rich". Democrats say if Republicans don't allow tax increases on "the rich" then EVERYBODY will pay more taxes. That is the Democrats choice.

Republicans offer: No tax increases

Democrats options: No tax increases OR tax increases on EVERYBODY

So if your taxes go up it is Obama's fault. But you voted for "it is STILL about HOPE!! it is STILL about CHANGE!!". You just didn't realize your vote for an incompetent leader like Obama meant "I HOPE I can find some loose CHANGE in the sofa because that is all I have left".

BTW, how are your stocks doing in your 401k? Businesses know what the incompetent Obama will do and that is allow tax increases on everybody and are preparing for the recession (or depression?) ahead. Stock Market has already lost about 3% in the last two days alone and today probably another 2%. But THAT is what you voted for.

You clueless people who voted for Obama have no idea what Obama taxes and regulations are going to do to you - do you? But that is what happens when you vote with your "heart" and don't think. BTW, January 1st due to new regulations, elimination of the payroll tax cut, increased taxes due to ObamaCare, AND increase of ALL tax brackets plan on 10% more of your income going to the government. That means if you make $30,000 plan on having $3000 MORE going to the government. But you voted for it. You made your bed - now you get to sleep in it. I am going to ask you again in about 6 months how is that whole "Hopey Changey" thing working out for you? It won't be good - that is the only thing for sure. New recession (or depression) with hundreds of thousands of jobs lost due to ObamaCare. THAT is what you voted for.

Look what we have here, A Liberal who admits that they were lying about the Republicans not passing any jobs bills and it was Harry Reid who blocked all of them. The world must be coming to an end.

Well looky here we got another con who is so dense he doesn't understand that those bills were poison to America and there was no way in h-ll they were getting through. I have never seen a legislative class do so little as did the TP Republicans elected in '10.

Now once again we see Republicans setting into their no compromise stance. They still don't seem to understand they lost an election. They want to damage America even worse than they already have by their intransigence. They need to learn they don't owe a loyalty oath to Grover Norquist. Their oath is to the people of this country.

Screw 'em all! After hearing the reactions over the past two days it it obvious what a joke the entire party has become. I can't find a car in town with a Romney sticker still on it only two days after the election and there were hundreds the weekend before. They didn't care about him. This was all about HATE! And that's still the only word that needs to be used to represent the entire GOP platform and its followers.

time to hold our government hostage rather than the other way around.. on April 15, no one absolutely no one file their taxes....

You have to love the posts that say Democrats have the upper hand, followed by the post touting the Republicans as being in control. When the simple fact is the system is broken, and both parties are to blame. Neither party can be trusted, as they are all simply incapable of putting politics aside. Nothing is ever done that does not afford one side or the other a political advantage. All any stop gap measure will do is get us to the next fiscal cliff deadline and another temporary solution.

These clowns in Washington have been promising for decades to fix the tax code, and they have done nothing. They have been promising to tackle the debt, but when every solution discussed take us well over the 20 trillion mark and doesn't balance for 40 or 50 years that is nothing but a joke. Washington simply cannot be trusted to do the right thing without being forced to do so. Term limits, a completely new tax system, and a balanced budget amendment are all long overdue. All the arguments against them don't have a working solution to point to as proof they are not the only way out of this mess.

I think all you can take to the bank on this one is that there is going to be plenty of hostility and blame flying around Washington, with political gain being the only driver. Voters keep sending the same people to Washington expecting different results, so why does it come as such a big surprise that they always fail us? Solutions exist, but they all boil down to whether they are good politically, before good for the country. Unless we tie their hands, Washington will always go with politically good every time, and how often does that mean good for the country?

A Liberal who admits that they were lying about the Republicans not passing any jobs bills...

Did you miss the quotes around it - "jobs" bills?

The quotes were there because they were nothing of the kind! They were more giveaways to Republican donors - ah, Republicans, passing the best laws that money can buy!

So, you know what? It makes no difference now. The lame Republican attempt to take back the presidency by doing nothing and blaming it all on Obama has failed! Republican lawmakers must now actually earn their paychecks and do something for this country rather than against it!

And if they don't? Well, 2014 is approaching. 13 Republicans Senators are up for re-election in 2014. Keep playing obstructionist games and the Democrats will get that supermajority in the Senate!

Forest--

I agree. First, this is a problem caused by the House Republicans two years ago. Obama should put out his grand bargain with "a take-it, or leave it" offer to the Republicans. It's a good respectable offer in keeping with themes in Simpson-Bowels. If they say "no", let the chips fall where they may. The House Republicans will be penalized in 2014, giving control of the House, Senate and White House to the Democrats--probably for a generation or more, just like they had after FDR. Republicans--"jacks or better to open"!

Obama for 4 more years. Couldn't happen to a nicer Country.

HILLARY IN 2016.

Forrest Grump 2.0

The political heat is on them and the nation is watching how they will respond, and if they don't respond, goodbye tax cuts, and hello defense cuts. If I was the president and this was a poker hand first I would check, and then I would raise because if they call you win and if they fold you win.

Couldn't agree more, Forrest.

Good analogy.

I do think Congressman Boehner is going to work with the President now. He's got his own re-election to worry about coming up, and I think the Tea Party in the House has lost their clout.

America is watching Congress closer than ever now.

Salud

Or... Boehner could just ..tell Obama and the rest of the spend-a-holics...

"We in good conscience, cannot pass another penney of crushing debt to our kids and grandkids. Therefore, with the sole exception being Congress declaring war, we will not raise the debt limit. The President's credit card is now cut up. He will have to prioritize the outstanding commitments of the US govt and pay them with the available $2.7 Trillion in revenue. He alone will have the choice of paying the outstanding debt interest, Soc Sec payments, Medicaid payments, and soldiers salaries OR defaulting on them, and squandering the monies on green boondoggles and public union payoffs and more unfunded entitlements. Let's see what his priorities are. Of course, President Obama WILL be able to spend more... if he grows the economy and the tax base"

No more Santa Claus... no free healthcare for millions of aliens... no bailouts for car companies or banks or Fannie and Freddie... no more free houses... no more $Billion vacations... no more paying people for years not to work.... Obama would s*** his pants....

GOPisextinct-

The "fiscal cliff" is a non-troversy dreamed up by the wealthy class to "spook the herd" into foolish, ill-advised action that will prolong the system of white-collar Welfare we've had in this country since Bush's tax cuts

GOP, you are SPOT on.

All a bunch of hype.

Salud

The American people are getting sick of John Bonehead to be allowed to Ramrod his BS down the middle class throats for his 1% mega rich buddies !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's take it off the cliff to show the republicans we mean business. Then they will have to fall in line and work with President Obama. Taxes have to and will be raised for the top 1%. That is what the American people want.

Plus, we need to send the message to ole Grover to move on.

Gotta love Republicans thinking they have the upper hand after losing a Presidential election.

Guess what? The cuts are going to expire on their own.

Boehner, iyou shouldn't have walked away from the Grand Bargain..........

See that little blinking light in the corner of your eye? That's your career dissipation light.

Eric: Republicans DO have the upper hand. How? Simple. Republicans say to the people we don't want your taxes to go up. Democrats have TWO choices: Either agree and taxes don't go up for anybody OR Democrats decide to punish the very people that voted for "Hope and Change" to ALL pay close to 10% more in taxes.

If taxes go up it is the Democrats fault. Democrats can yell and scream that Republicans didn't want to "compromise" but compromise on what? Republicans say "sign this extension and nobody pays more in taxes". If Democrats say no then Republicans can say "HERE is the bill we offered that you would NOT see your taxes go up but Democrats refused to stop YOU from having to pay higher taxes".

Sorry, it is up to the Democrats: Do you want everybody to pay more in taxes? Or not? Your call.......

Job1: You say the American people want the taxes to go up on the 1%? That is fine. But if taxes go up on the 1% then they also go up on the remaining 99%. We don't get to pick and choose who gets punished. If you think we need more tax dollars then we get more tax dollars by EVERYBODY paying more taxes.

So it is up to the Democrats: Do you want taxes to go up for everybody in this country - or not? Your call..........

Eric-

Gotta love Republicans thinking they have the upper hand after losing a Presidential election

I know. Fricken too funny.

The True Middle of the road Republicans know they have to work with the President.

The Tea Party and Grover have no more clout whatsoever.

The Tea Party is extinct.

Salud

Did the GOP TeaBaggers seriously think the American people were going to fall for their BS again !!!

Pro,

Democrats have the leverage because taxes will automatically increase for all on Jan 2^nd. Immediately after the current rates expire the Democrats will propose a tax cut bill for all brackets except those making over 250/250K to be effective retroactively.

Even some Republicans agree if that happens then they would not be voting for a tax increase but a tax cut and keeps them in good standing with Grover.

ProBusiness,

This is not the president's problem. Congress sets tax rates. The House is run by Republicans. They will take the blame if this thing goes south and they know it. They took the blame during the debt ceiling debate and they paid for it last Tuesday. It's ok with me if they support the 1%. The Republicans will likely jeopardize their majority status in the house in 2014 giving the Senate, House and WH to the Democrats. Then, watch out. Big business will be pushing Boehner for a deal with many CEOs giving up on the 1% in favor of avoiding a recession and getting comprehensive tax reform. Obama will put something on the table for middle class benefit programs such as social security and medicare. Your side better take it. It's the best deal they are going to get.

Obama has run on the platform for raising taxes on the wealthy back to Clinton levels for two elections. The American people have spoken. They have spoken twice. There is no mistake about it. This is what we want.

Nation-wide polls show that over 80% are in favor of this.

I'm very glad to see that many of the veteran liberal bloggers are taking the weekend off and resting up as I suggested yesterday.

We've got a lot of work to do. The President is going to need our help like never before. So, for the rest of you, surrender the sight to the wing-nuts, they're just angry their guy lost and they need to vent.

We need to fresh and ready to get back to work on Tuesday.

Have a great three-day weekend everybody and I"ll see you on Tuesday.

B7: It IS the president's problem because he could say today "we don't want taxes to go up for anybody" and push the Senate to pass an extension. Just because Obama doesn't get involved (and he does that so well - doing nothing) it STILL is his problem because he is supposed to be a "leader".

Dennis: Sorry, doesn't work that way. If Democrats let the taxes go up on EVERYBODY then they stay up. Democrats have a choice: Taxes go up for everybody - or they stay the same for everybody. If taxes go up for EVERYBODY it is the Democrats fault.

BTW, are you that naive? THAT is what Democrats want!! They need more money. That's all they know how to do. And they KNOW that taxing the 1% is pocket change. We have over a $1 Trillion annual deficit. Taxing "the rich" MIGHT bring in $80 Billion a year (I think much lower than that but let's use $80 Billion). With a $1 Trillion deficit bringing in $80 billion is pocket change. What about the other $910 Billion still in deficit?

Democrats LOVE this Sequestration because they can raise taxes on EVERYBODY, get closer to $300 Billion more a year (and sending our economy into decline - but THAT doesn't matter to them), and STILL blame it on Republicans. BEST OF BOTH WORLDS!! Get more money AND blame Republicans!! So don't think for a MOMENT your taxes are not going up 10% next year. Don't think for a MOMENT you will be spared. It NEVER was in the cards that way. You were "played" by the Democrat party. But that is what they do best. But it is what it is and many uninformed voters didn't or can't see it. But it is there. Don't think for a MOMENT you are not going to be bent over the counter without so much as a thank you from your government.

That was the plan all along by the Democrats: tax increases for everybody, more money for them to spend, AND blame Republicans. You made your bed - now you must prepare to sleep in it.

It is really great to vote for someone else to pay the bills. People who think that way should try to understand that you cannot tax enough out of the 1% to pay for more programs.

@skip #1.59,

No anger, skippy boy, but now that you liberals are coming to grips with the fiscal reality that looms .... you guys are all talking politics (as usual) about how to make the Republicans look bad, while offering NO VIABLE SOLUTIONS !

Obama's plan to raise taxes (which, by the way, he has ALREADY DONE through Obamacare) will only raise enough revenue for about 8.5 days of his annual $1.4 trillion deficits ! By the time Obama is done with this country our national debt will likely be BEYOND $21.6 trillion and over half of every dollar will go to debt service. But that's what happens when you use Uncle Sam's money to buy votes for yourself through union bailouts and food stamps out of control.

Obama still does not understand how to make businesses grow and with it to grow tax revenues !!

When will Obama EVER have a BUDGET as mandated by law ?????????????????

Pro,

Dennis: Sorry, doesn't work that way. WRONG, that is exactly how it can and will work.

Similar bills are done this way all the time. Allow one bill to expire then replace it with another with different language.

If the president just sits tight as a lot of you want and lets all that expire, according to CBO and virtually every economist it will be .5 to 1% of a hit to GDP, 700,000 jobs and put us back into recession. You guys want that just so you can have some kind of fullfilment of a dream of higher taxes on the american people?

And keep in mind what most people don't realize in this "pay your fair share" mantra ......there are 1 million businesses that fall into that tax rate also that employ 25% of all the workers in this country. How do you think all those businesses will react when the first of the year rolls around and uncle sam reaches into their pockets and takes another 5% away? "hey i'm losing another 5% of my money, let me expand"

When 5% is taken away they will cut something...... money invested in business, take home pay, salaries, benefits, jobs....something

ProBusiness.... the deficit is about 1.1 trillion, taxing the rich MIGHT get 50 billion so that still leaves us with a 1.05 trillion deficit. What is the plan to deal with that? Taxes barely makes a dent in our huge appetite to spend, spend, spend.

Pro,

Then take off of the Cliff. The President won re-election and it's his way or the highway. The top 1% will have to pay their share, because their free ride is over.

Dennis: But if you think for a MOMENT that the Democrats did not plan all along to get tax increases on everybody AND blame Republicans I can now understand why you voted for Obama. You just didn't think that through. Don't get me wrong - Democrats may ACT like they want to "fix" the problem Republicans "caused" but don't think for a moment they will actually do it. They can't. They need the money.

So the tax increases on EVERYBODY will occur (and blame Republicans) then ACT like they want to initiate a tax cut to "fix" but when it doesn't get done they will STILL have their increased taxes across the board AND still blame the Republicans. Dennis my friend - you were played like a violin by your own party. You have made your bed - now prepare to sleep in it. Enjoy your increased taxes and LESS money you have for you and your family.

I don't know whether to laugh because you didn't see it or cry because our country will pay dearly for this reelection of an incompetent president. I'll have to give that more thought but unfortunately now you realize what your own party didn't have the guts to tell you - you are getting ready to be bent over the counter: You would think the Democrats would give you a courtesy "thank you" - but I don't expect that anytime soon.

Top 1% paying 40% of our bills is a free ride JOB1? LOL

A question to the "fair share" crowd...... what is ones "fair share" of a 1.1Trillion dollar deficit? Not including business, 1.1 trillion is the TOTAL amount of taxes collected from citizens. Everyone. And we DEFICIT spend the total amount we collect from individuals. Taxes does hardly anything to our huge spending deficits and people act as if that is a cure all to fiscal problems.

Job1: It is not UP to the Republicans to "take off the cliff". You keep forgetting Republicans are the group that DOESN'T want taxes to go up. But we need Democrats to agree to NOT raise taxes. It is the Democrats refusing to "take of the cliff". Call your Senators and the president and tell them YOU don't want to pay higher taxes. It is up to the president and the Senate whether YOUR taxes go up or not. Call them.

Pro-

Eric: Republicans DO have the upper hand

You views on this subject are WRONG.

Democrats have the Senate and a national MANDATE on the Presidency.

Guess you still can't accept the FACT that your side lost BIGTIME.

It is your side that got America into this mess.

Republicans need to compromise with Democrats, or move to the back of the bus.

The Tea Party, Grover, Faux/Rush/Hannity ARE THE PROBLEM.

The Democrats will lead America FORWARD.

Salud

Tom: You can't be THAT naive - can you? What part do you not understand? Republicans don't want YOUR taxes or ANYBODY'S taxes to go up. Democrats CAN stop your taxes from going up. Republicans say "let's extend the CURRENT tax rates to not affect the economy". Democrats say "no" and want taxes to go up.

I am not going to get into the discussion of "who got us here". That dead horse has been beat for 4 years. No benefit to explain that to you again. But the choice TODAY is clear. Democrats have a choice to either raise taxes on everybody - or not. If taxes go up it is due to the Democrats.

Does your Democrat party want to raise taxes for everybody or not? Up to you and your party my friend......

Tomas, what republican policy caused the real estate meltdown that got us into this mess?

Here's how economics works.

When the government gets money they spend money. Money flows back into businesses or programs or people in need. These businesses, programs, and people in need spend the money back into businesses immediately. These businesses make profit that they in turn spend on employees, operations, and then taxes again to start the cycle of healthy economics again. Because these taxes are going into businesses, programs, and people in need. Demand goes up so supply has to go up. Businesses have to hire more so more people have jobs. More people spending and less people in need make the economy strong. Money flow and continuous money flow is the most important thing in economics.

When 1% of the population holds more than 1/3 of the wealth of the country this is a terrible thing. So few only need to spend so much so money is stockpiled clogging the system. Bush tax cuts for the wealthy are one thing that clogs the system and that is why they need to end.

Man, you guys need to get a clue. The president was voted back in office to level the playing field. The people have spoken and want the rich to start paying a percentage of taxes that the rest of the people play. You can twist it all you want but that is why the president was voted in again.

Personally, I don't mind paying more in taxes if it levels the playing field in taxation and it helps in the recovery. I'm perplexed as to why you knuckleheads insist on the 1% not paying their fair share. And don't give me that crap about jobs. How many jobs have been created with the current breaks they currently get?

@BigATC - De-regulation caused the meltdown. And it's been steadily getting worse since Reagan. Wanting more deregulation is not the way to go. It's what caused the who financial meltdown.

ProBusiness

Eric: Republicans DO have the upper hand. How? Simple. Republicans say to the people we don't want your taxes to go up. Democrats have TWO choices: Either agree and taxes don't go up for anybody OR Democrats decide to punish the very people that voted for "Hope and Change" to ALL pay close to 10% more in taxes.

We the People rejected your logic in the election. What makes you think we'll accept it now? All Karl Roves lies...all the fake poll spin...all the "blame the socialists" garbage was utterly rejected. The reality is at this point, if it means the wealthy and corporation start paying their fair share and the rest of us must pay more...in the words of GW Bush...bring 'em on!

comeon, onesoul ..... 2question for you guys......

1 million businesses that employ 25% of our workers fall into this "pay your fair share" tax level. You are the owner of one of these companies, so how do you react in your business when the new year roll around and you now have 5% less to operate your business because the govt took it?

second ...... How does taking another 5% away from these businesses encourage them to grow from a federal level?

I believe that Repubs will hem and haw around about not raising taxes and cutting spending to please their constituents. But will ultimately give the democrats what they want and privately hope it fails. Republicans are convinced that Americans only want "free stuff." And if Repubs keep losing ground I can see the party becoming more progressive. There is a precedent, Teddy Roosevelt. One of the most progressive presidents ever. Don't be surprised, Conservatives, if your Party kicks you to the curb in the next 20 years.

Onesoul, so you say lack of regulation caused the meltdown. OK. So the 2 big things that could have been regulated were the derivatives market and Fannie/Freddie which leads the real estate market. Do you know those two were tried? Lets look at each one.......

The derivatives market, it was tried to be regulated back in 1996 by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, headed by Brooksley Born. That was stopped in Senate Committee by none other than Larry Summers, Robert Rubin and the SEC chairman (forget his name). Same Larry Summers Obama started with. What party are those guys? DEMOCRATS

Now look at Fannie/Freddie, the behemoths that set the standards for the mortgage market. It was tried in 2004-2005 to regulate them. A bill was actually put forth in the Senate in early 2005 to regulate these entities. It was blocked by a filibuster in the Senate by ....DEMOCRATS. Including then freshman Senator Obama. If you want to listen to the floor debate youtube "Fannie Freddie congress 2004" and you can hear lots of Democrats against regulating F/F.

Not sure where you got your info but you are accusing the wrong party.

BigATC: Exactly. Amazing how many in this thread have no idea how a business works. How business owners risk their own capital and life savings to start a business. They could lose their life savings - but risk it anyway because they MIGHT be able to make a good profit. But now government tells this business "if you risk your money and lose it we are so sorry - - but if you MAKE any money we want more of it". Sorry, this owner will decide it is no longer worth the risk.

Just LOOK at the last 4 years!! ANY GDP growth was borrowed money that the government spent. THAT is not economic growth. That is like borrowing $10,000 to buy a boat this year. Next year you are no better off than you were this year but now owe another $10,000. When you take out government borrowed money from the GDP calculation our economy has already contracted. We are in a recession already but it is not seen due to borrowed money. Why is the economy contracting? Because the damage to small businesses - and now it will get exponentially worse.

We will see close to 10% unemployment by this time next year. Because we CAN'T borrow any more money GDP can no longer be artificially held up by government borrowed money so you will now see the economic decline over the next 12 months as well.

But that is what you voted for. Many voted with their "hearts" but no idea what they were actually doing. This economy is preparing for a collapse. I suggest many start preparing because it is not going to be pretty when the riots start. I give it 24 - 36 months before we start to collapse but the trend will become clear within the next 12 months.

BigATC, businesses grow by demand. When 5% of profits go to taxes they go immediately into spending how I described above. Because more money is out there demand goes up so you sell more products. Your supply probably now has to increase so you will need more people so we get more jobs. Those new employees increase to the demand so now other businesses supplies will have to go up. It's a beautiful thing.

Ol_Doc: Just keep telling yourself all will be okay. Maybe if you click your heels together and keep repeating "I want to go back to Kansas. I want to go back to Kansas." it will all be okay. Maybe if you keep repeating "the rich are evil. the rich are evil." all will be okay. Just keep thinking that.

It won't be. Just look around. Just talk to small businesses. Just listen how many are already laying people off due to ObamaCare or closing their doors already. Just open your eyes. If you want to ignore and convince yourself all will be fine - you are welcome to do so. But there is a difference between fantasy and reality and you will definitely find out the difference by this time next year. You hold onto your fantasy of Obama posters on your wall. Maybe make some sugar cookies tonight with the image of Obama - that will be so sweet. But that is called fantasy.

Within 12 months you will be forced to recognize reality and it will probably be from the back of an unemployment line reading a news article about how the state you live in is out of money. And the article will also talk about how the world financial markets have decided they are not willing to lend the U.S. anymore money. But enjoy your sugar cookies tonight. I am sure they will be delicious. Enjoy your fantasy while you still can.....

BigATC

comeon, onesoul ..... 2question for you guys......

1 million businesses that employ 25% of our workers fall into this "pay your fair share" tax level. You are the owner of one of these companies, so how do you react in your business when the new year roll around and you now have 5% less to operate your business because the govt took it?

second ...... How does taking another 5% away from these businesses encourage them to grow from a federal level?

So in your world the 50s and 60s really didn't exist...or the tax rate at the time didn't exist? I'm so damn tired of this crap! It's like the threat that physicians will quit practicing medicine or move if the ACA is implemented... and do what, flip burgers at Micky D's? Move to Somalia? Most everyone else has single payer.

Businesses want to move overseas...fine. Ban their importing goods. Simply take what is still the largest market on earth away from them. The problem is that you and your kind simply don't know who is ultimately in the driver's seat.

Come On: Did you REALLY just say businesses paying 5% more in taxes will allow the economy to grow? Did you REALLY say that? A person CAN'T be that naive. They just CAN'T be!!

But let's for a moment stretch reality and assume (sorry!! I couldn't say that without ROFLMAO!!) and assume that was true. Asking businesses to pay 5% more in taxes will grow the economy - then why stop there? Why not make it 10% MORE!! That will DOUBLE the increase in the economy!! Better yet why not 20% more!! My goodness our economy will be HUGE!! Better yet - let's take EVERYTHING the business has!! Of course for the good of the economy!! Let's take everything YOU have. Everything I have. Everything businesses have. Can you imagine how HUGE our economy will be!!

I really can't believe someone who can actually (I assume) tie their own shoes would make such a naive and irresponsible comment such as "taxing businesses more and giving it to others to spend will cause this business to grow". God help us if THAT is what our public school system is teaching the younger generation these days. God have mercy on each and every one of us if that is the naive understanding from our younger generation of how business works.

ProBusiness

Enjoy your fantasy while you still can.....

Thank you, I will. But you know what I will really enjoy? I will enjoy watching you enjoy my fantasy!

Have a nice 4 years.

onesoul4u2-

Man, you guys need to get a clue. The president was voted back in office to level the playing field. The people have spoken and want the rich to start paying a percentage of taxes that the rest of the people play. You can twist it all you want but that is why the president was voted in again.

Exactly!

The rich have sucked the Middle class and poor dry over the last ten years with their class warfare BS.

I have no simpathy to the billionare leaches who STOLE (by the Bush tax cuts) our hard-earned dollars and ruined this American economy. The re-distibution of wealth from the poor/middle class to the rich is truely disgusting.

Ten years of tax cuts and the bastards haven't created one job, and now they want MORE? You truely have to be a freakin idiot to side with weathly people, unless of course, you are wealthy as well.

What a scam they have perpetuated on the American Public.

Well, the gravy train is over for the rich. Time they pay back what they stole and if they don't, they should be tried for treason, thrown in jail, and spat on in public for the Traitorous terrorists they truely are.

They really are the scum of America.

Salud

@Job1 #1.66, So Obama won the election and now you libs have the concept "it's my way or the highway" ?

Really, I didn't know we were electing a DICTATOR ... I was still working under the concept that laws were passed by Congress, the constitutionality thereof was decided by the Supreme Court and the President, as Chief Executive, was empowered to see that they were carried out ! Nobody told me Obama was elected Dictator !

Wow ! You libs think that winning a close election gives you the right to MANDATE what will be and what will not. Of course, Obama pretty much had that nasty attitude some years back when he told Republicans they "could come along for the ride, but would have to sit on the back of the bus" !

I guess I need to just quit my job, collect welfare, get my food stamps, get in the line for my Obama bucks and have the government subsidize my health care premiums which I will not be able to afford, and go get my free condoms with my Obama bucks ! Where is my free phone ?

ProBusiness: you are just a wimp, unwilling to pay for the benefits this great country has for you. From the 1930's until the idiot Republicans came into power in the 1980's, the top tax rate was never less than 70%. For 50 years, that did not prevent the top earners from earning the millions they earned. The economy did very well year after year, until the GOP decided that they wanted to cut taxes and spend us into oblivion.

BTW, even though the Senate GOP tried to force it not to be made public, the Congressional Research Service proved that tax cuts for the wealthy do not lead to more jobs.

The reality is, the tax cut expiration and the spending cuts are not a "fiscal cliff." It is not as if the economy will suddenly drop on January 1. The spending cuts, which need to be made, will take place over the next YEAR, and in each of the next 10 years.

I say, let all the cuts take place, let the tax cuts fully expire. If the GOP wants to increase spending, justify it and pay for it. If the GOP wants a tax cut, pay for it.

Well hopefully this debate isn't a preview of how Washington is going to approach this issue. Obama really doesn't have much clout on fiscal issues. He has yet to put forth a budget that could get so much as one vote in the Senate, so to suggest that Obama should tell Republicans here is what you will accept take it or leave it is pretty irresponsible. Democrats began the first Obama term by saying Republicans to the back of the bus and we won we write the bills and that didn't work out real well. Republicans won the House, and our government is not set up or ever conceived to be something that one executive branch had the total say on any issue. So if compromise in your mind is we won we get our way, don't expect much to happen.

With the election being over some of you really need to take a dose of reality. Letting the Bush tax cuts expire only on the top earners might have been a great campaign sound byte, but in reality that is going to generate very little revenue. It isn't going to come close to solving any of our debt problems and everyone in Washington knows it. Our problem is simply too big for anything less then a truly comprehensive reform package. Far more revenue resides in allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire for everyone else, and again everyone in Washington knows it. If our Washington elite feel for one second they can survive the political fallout, that is the direction they will choose.

America has a spending problem.

You must raise taxes 40% on EVERYTHING that is taxed just to break even today.

From what I see here there will be no give on the part of democrats. Compromise requires both sides to give something, fail to do that and someone has to cave all the way or walk away.

Ol Doc, i'm sure you are talking of the 90% tax rates in the 50's. Back then there were enough deductions big enough to drive a truck through. Remember when you could deduct credit card interest and all kinds of things?

If you look at rates historically from the 50's in 90% range down to 28% under Reagan and back up, they RARELY venture far from 18% of REVENUE/GDP no matter what the rate. 1950 to 1976 the average was 17.6 and 1976 to 2008 it was 18.3%. I think we are about 17.4 now. It goes a little above and a little below but always stays around 18% no matter the rate.

What this tells us is that we really can't spend more than about 19% Reveenue/GDP or we will have deficits.... period. No tax policy has supported that spending since 1950. We are currently spending 24% of GDP and no tax increase or decrease can support that.

Ol_Doc: Ummmm, "yes" and "yes". Doctors are already deciding to retire early or leave medicine. What will they do? Retired ones live on their wealth. Younger ones write books, teach, or go practice medicine in other countries.

http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2012/11/06/physicians-pessimistic-about-health-care-law

And now that businesses understand that ObamaCare WILL be fully implemented they are already starting to react and it has been only a few days since the election. But you will see more companies doing this over the next 3 months. They CANNOT absorb this additional cost so each business will start to lay off a few employees to pay for this.

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2012/11/07/vegas-employer-obama-won-so-i-fired-22-employees/

And I heard another business had to lay off 10 workers due to ObamaCare and didn't know which ten needed to go so went out to the parking lot and found the cars that had Obama stickers on them, found out who owned the cars, then fired them. Some say there is a legal issue there but I think it was fair. Those who voted for the president who CAUSED the additional costs should be the ones to PAY for the additional costs.

End result is it is already happening. You can keep your head in the sand and pretend it is not happening but it is. But one suggestion - I would scrape off the Obama sticker from your car. Your employer might be the next one looking for Obama stickers in the parking lot...........

Tomas, say you get your tax increase and we get 50 Billion. That gives us a 1.05 Trillion deficit instead of 1.1 Trillion. How do you deal with the 1.05 Trillion deficit spending AFTER the tax increase?

Dirp: Do you just make up stuff as you go along? Clearly so. But, sorry, typical liberal tactic - bring up another item, force Republicans to defend, and that gets them away from talking about the current topic. Sorry, won't work. Make up stuff if you want to but that don't make it true.

Democrats have a choice whether to increase taxes on everybody or not. Don't complain to Republicans. We already want the tax rates to stay the same and not affect you. Democrats want to raise taxes on everybody. Don't complain to me. Call your Senator and Obama and tell them you do not want to pay higher taxes. It is up to you. Do you want to pay higher taxes or not. Then let your Senators know.

ProBusiness

Ol_Doc: Younger ones write books, teach, or go practice medicine in other countries.

Where Somalia? Yemen? Bangladesh? What developed nation has a form of compensation that you believe would be to their advantage? Clearly it won't be Europe. Latin America perhaps? With the degrading world economy how stable would that be? And how many have instituted socialized medicine?

I'm really not sure what reality Republicans live in but perhaps you should quit listening to Glenn Beck and try to get a handle on the world the rest of us live in...at some point, it will dictate your reality.

Come on, you are right that tax money does go into spending. Government spending. If the theory of govt spending grows jobs then if they put everybody on food stamps and welfare we should grow like crazy, right.

How much of that goes back to business to make them grow? The govt funnels a ton of that money for things that don't produce anything,the govt consumes wealth. Before it comes back you have salaries, red tape, overseas aid, many many things NOT related to consumer spending and business growth.

The 3 things that make our economy rock are business growth, consumer spending and the real estate market. To argue that the govt taking away from one of those 3, to siphon off a lot of it in NON consumer and business activities, and then put back a very small portion of thatis pro business.... is naive.

Ol_Doc: Did you NOT read the article? The article was FROM doctors!! The article TALKED about what they would do instead of practicing medicine. What bizarro world do you live in when you think you can ignore facts, make up your own, and don't expect anybody to catch what you did? Since you didn't read the article here it is again. Try reading it this time:

http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2012/11/06/physicians-pessimistic-about-health-care-law

And here is the SURVEY where they asked ACTUAL DOCTORS!!

http://www.physiciansfoundation.org/uploads/default/Physicians_Foundation_2012_Biennial_Survey.pdf

Try reading these two. Just so you know you read left to right top to bottom. After you read that you will see how ridiculous your comments were.

LOL. God you liberals are a funny bunch. Letting the cliff happen will force the republicans to tax the rich? Why? If the fiscal cliff happens, all tax payers are effected. What impetus does the GOP then have to agree to cut rates? Democrats are saying to let the cliff happen, that is their strategy, let it happen. Maybe if more than 55% of Americans paid actual federal taxes, they would actually feel the pain of Government over spending and seek to reduce costs.

I agree with you liberals, let the cliff happen, let taxes raise across the board, let more voters feel the pain of actually paying into government. Maybe then they will stop voting for foolish policies that are unsustainable. Maybe then they will realize it is no longer a safety net when 49% of households receive some type of benefit.

Hilarious.

One way this will affect doctors is they will start to drop medicare and medicaid as the IPAB board (non elected) is setting reimbursement rates so low they will get out. Also Obamacare cuts around 200 Billion from medicare advantage and they will drop that. My mom's doc of 25 years is dropping MA at the end of this year because of Obamacare and she now has to go look for another Doc.

People on Medicare and Medicaid will have a hard time finding docs. And if your doc takes it your wait times for NON M/M insures will go up dramatically. Happening in Mass now which is why you see ER visits UP and lots of people with insurance going because of the longest wait times in the country for appointments.

Estimates of around 15million forced onto Medicaid, which is going to burden states budgets more.

BigAT-

Cut military spending to Eisenhower levels.

Cut all corporate welfare subsidies.

Cut all agriculture food subsidies.

Raise taxes on EVERYONE making 1 mil to 10 mil per year to 50% for 4 years ONLY.

Raise taxes on EVERYONE making over 10 mil per year to 75% for 4 years ONLY.

After that, have a NEW tax code where

(in thousands)

0 to 100 pay 15%,

100 to 200 pay 20%,

200 to 300 pay 25%

300 to 400 pay 30%

400 to 500 pay 35%

500 to 600 pay 40%

600 to 700 pay 45%

700 to 1 mil pay 50%.

Don't worry. It's not as bad as it seams.

The wealthy will still be able to get huge tax breaks, in some cases pay NO taxes at all.

I mean really. How many hundreds of millions of dollars is enough to live on?

Salud

If both parties don’t actually start doing something to fix the real problems in our country like “out-sourcing”, illegal immigration and the out of control costs of health care insurance, by the next election – American citizens may just have to run a nation-wide campaign to vote every single incumbent out of office, so that maybe then they’ll finally get the message.

Wouldn't it be More Productive if Our Elected Leaders Started Working Together as AMERICANS for AMERICANS and AMERICA, instead of just bickering, stalling and posturing for the next election as democrats and republicans! The American People have had it with this unproductive BS! We need both parties to actually start looking out for the best interest of the US Citizens who elect them and who they're supposed to represent. If they stop fighting and actually start working together to solve our problems, America and all Americans will be much better off.

Job-

typical liberal tactic - bring up another item, force Republicans to defend, and that gets them away from talking about the current topic.

How naive.

That is a TYPICAL Karl Rove tactic for right-wing bloggers spun around and thrown back at Democrats, which in itself, is ANOTHER Karl Rove tactic.

You STILL taking orders from that pathetic loser?

God, this is too fricken easy.

You guys are as obsolete as a Blockbuster Video store.

The next four year are going to be SOO great kicking Tea Party blogger's Azzes.

Salud

Bait and Switch much?. Why are we talking about Billionaires. The target is 250k a year. 1/4,000 of a billionaire. The guy making 250k in salary/bonus is already paying the highest marginal rate too. That's who Obama wants to tax more. This has nothing to do with fairness. We need money. It is easier to get it from wage earners than investment earners. We don't care that they already pay more than their fair share. We need more. That's just reality. Note above, Obama doesn't want to deviate from 250k because "revenues drop off quickly". The obfuscation to pretend a guy making 250k is anything remotely like a billionaire is offensive. The idea of using this ruse to suggest the guy paying the highest marginal rate already needs to pay more to be "fair" is even more offensive. Just speak the damn truth.

Now.... If its fairness you want - then let Bush tax cuts expire for everyone.

Tom: What a ridiculous idea. Typical liberal "tax the wealthy" idea that will only damage the economy. We do not have a tax problem - we have a spending problem.

In 2007 our federal spending is about what we received THIS year in tax revenue. Let me say that again: In 2007 our federal spending is about what we received THIS year in tax revenue.

How can our tax revenue be about what our spending was in 2007 but we STILL have to borrow over $1 Trillion? Maybe it is because we are now SPENDING $1 Trillion more than only 5 years ago. That is about a 40% increase in 5 years or, on average, increased spending of about 8% a year. I doubt very seriously YOU have averaged 8% increases in spending every year over the last 5 years and I assure you I have not either. In fact I spend about the SAME amount in 2012 than I spent in 2007.

So the answer is simple: We reduce our government spending back to 2007 levels. BAM!! I just balanced the budget. And without any tax increases. If our country was able to survive on 2007 levels in 2007 why can't we now?

In 2007 federal government spending was about 20% of GDP. Now it is over 25%. That is unsustainable. We have a SPENDING PROBLEM!! Not a tax problem. Reduce federal spending back to 2007 levels and problem solved.

Tom: So you can't stay on topic? I thought you were better than that!! I was hoping to at least be challenged!! But if you cannot even stay on topic then blame someone ELSE because you couldn't stay on topic that is such a copout. But that is the problem with liberals - once they start debating their point of view it always fails so they must distract with another topic. Sorry, I like to stay on topic. If you are willing to actually make an argument AND stay on topic - I welcome the challenge.......

Tomas, although i don't agree with the taxes, the difference between you and everyone in congress is you actually presented a plan :-)

We actually have examples on the state level of tax increases and decreases. Oregon, Illinois and Cali all had tax increases ......results more debt. Several states that had Dem govenors replace with Rep govenors,...Indiana, Ohio, Wisconsin etc all reduced taxes and had regulation reform all closed budget gaps. More revenue. So how does that translate to the national level if you look at it from a tax level?

We also have individual examples. The boat luxury tax in the early 90's. That was the first time i heard "pay your fair share". The wealthy can pay more after all right? More revenue right? Except the opposite happened. Revenue went way down and the industry was decimated on jobs. It was quickly repealed on a bipartisan basis.

The reason is people don't factor in behavior. The more you tax something the less likey people are to play in that area.

Current example, Medical device tax in Obamacare. Cook Medical in my home state of Indiana canceled plans to build 5 new plants because of the new taxes. How many construction jobs did that cost and how many full time jobs along with support industry did that kill. And on the other side that hole has a good chance to be filled over seas now. There are other examples of how the tax is hurting the industry if one cares to investigate.

ProBusiness

Ol_Doc: Ummmm, "yes" and "yes". Doctors are already deciding to retire early or leave medicine. What will they do? Retired ones live on their wealth. Younger ones write books, teach, or go practice medicine in other countries.

"Within the next four years, more than 50 percent of physicians surveyed intend to cut back on their hours, shift to concierge medicine, or retire."

Yea...that will work! I can now see 25% of all practicing physicians competing with each other to secure wealthy patients...ROFLMAO ...DoctorWars! That could be a series showing right after "NCIS".

The market will provide what the market demands! We need more doctors and the AMA doesn't want them trained...cut the AMA out of it. The Federal government can do that with a stroke of the pen. Simply inform the Universities to train more physicians at the risk of loosing all Federal funds...watch them scramble and tell the AMA to piss-off.

Jessee i'm also about at the point to just say let him have everything he wants. Raise the marginal rates 5%. Raise the dividends from 15% to 43.3% as he wants. No idea what he wants on cap gains as he has said 20, 25 and 30. It would be intersting how that will affect behavior especially the markets. The pros in the markets will continue but i won't play i a 43.3% dividend and 30% cap gain world. I imagine lots of individuals wont either.

Job-

So the answer is simple: We reduce our government spending back to 2007 levels.

LOL.

You are STILL in denile that in 2007, the two Bush wars, AND all the tax cuts didn't come due UNTIL President Obama took office.

Bush balanced NOTHING!

REPEAT, NOTHING.

You guys love the smoke and mirrors arguments,.

And btw, ENOUGH of the Limbaugh Hannity talking point cliches.

Let me make it perfectly clear. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TAXING THE RICH OR BLAMING THE RICH.

IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH TAXING THE CHEATS AND LIARS AND THOSE WHO HAVE USED THERE MONEY AND POWER TO SCREW THE REST OF US.

GOT IT!!!!

Try and keep up with reality.

Salud

Ol Doc, the market already produces what it can with physicians. How are we going to get more? The only way to do that would be to lower the standards on giving out medical liscenses. My family physician advised his daughter going into college not to go into medicine. How sad is that. I asked him his opinion on Obamacare, he just let out a big sigh and looked down and told me he has decided not to discuss that with his patients.

Ol_Doc: So let me see if I get this straight? I tell you doctors will leave the field. You say they won't. I supply a survey FROM doctors confirming they will leave the field. You say the doctors won't do that. But I JUST showed you what doctors SAID?!?!? And you say what the doctors say are not true. Did I miss something?

What bizarro world do you live in where you believe that you are qualified to say that what doctors are TELLING us is not what doctors believe or will do? Now I understand why you are a liberal. You can believe anything you want and facts just don't matter. Amazing.......... Absolutely amazing.........

Wow Tomas, calling your fellow americans that are successful as a group liars and cheats??? Easy big fella LOL

The deficts Bush rolled up after the 2003 taxes were in affect

2004 412 Billion

2005 318 Billion

2006 248 Billion

2007 160 Billion

2008 458 Billion

Even with the wars spending was less then than it is now. We have little spending at all in Iraq now and are running a 1.1Trillion deficit. We are spending at a 24% of GDP rate now. Waaaay over anything sustainable.

Or... Boehner could just ..tell Obama and the rest of the spend-a-holics...

"We in good conscience, cannot pass another penney of crushing debt to our kids and grandkids..."

Oh, now that is funny! Where was all that reolve when Bush was doubling our national debt in 8 years?

It was right here:

June 2002: [Republican-controlled] Congress approves a $450 billion increase, raising the debt limit to $6.4 trillion. McConnell, Boehner, and Cantor vote “yea”, Kyl votes “nay.”

May 2003: [Republican-controlled] Congress approves a $900 billion increase, raising the debt limit to $7.384 trillion. All four approve.

November 2004: [Republican-controlled] Congress approves an $800 billion increase, raising the debt limit to $8.1 trillion. All four approve.

March 2006: [Republican-controlled] Congress approves a $781 billion increase, raising the debt limit to $8.965 trillion. All four approve.

September 2007: [Democratic-controlled] Congress approves an $850 billion increase, raising the debt limit to $9.815 trillion. All four approve.

Tom: Newsflash: Bush is no longer president. Obama is and the uninformed reelected him. So the question is WHY are we spending $1 Trillion MORE than we did only 5 years ago? I thought Obama promised to cut the deficit in half? He doubled it. Bush is no longer president. Obama is. And the question is why is it okay for Obama to spend 40% more than we did only 5 years ago? It is not. Obama spending is the problem. We have a SPENDING problem not a tax problem.

Cut spending to 2007 levels and we just balanced the budget. Hate the wealthy all you want but the wealthy did not cause a $1+ Trillion deficit every year - Obama did. Reduce spending to 2007 levels and problem is solved.

EEngineer: Newsflash!! It is 2012. We owe $16+ trillion. What happened in 2002, 2003, or 2007 is irrelevant. We have increased the national debt by over 60% SINCE OBAMA WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT!! What is relevant is what we have done the last 4 years and the mess Obama has caused. What happened five or ten years ago is irrelevant.

That is like a family that said "but we bought a boat on credit in 2002 and 2005 we bought a car on credit - that justifies us borrowing money today to buy a four-wheeler today". But, wait a minute, you ALSO borrowed money to buy ANOTHER car, 4 cruises, and built a room addition the last FOUR YEARS!! We can't afford a four-wheeler NOW!! We MUST stop borrowing!!

So EEngineer - it is 2012. Move to today my friend.

BigATC -

Ahhhh, but let's look at the national for each of those years, shall we?

Keep in mind that Bush started with $5.7T when sworn in...

from treasurydirect.gov:

2004 $7.4T

2005 $7.9T

2006 $8.5T

2007 $9.0T

2008 $10.0T

Do you need any further evidence of just how much George W. Bush kept "off the budget"? What you were quoting was "budget deficits" - it did not include any of the emergency spending measures that Bush and Republican majorities in Congress pushed through. Do you think that only included war expenses? Silly man... the truth is out there, google it!

Probuisness,

The Republicans drove it off the cliff 10 years ago with the original Bush tax cuts. Remember Cheney: "Deficits don't matter." You Republicans need to fix this or you will all be gone (yet again) in 2014.

Probusiness -

What an ass! The point is that the very people the OP ascribed such lofty morals to are the ones that ran up the majority of that debt in the first place. Those that ignore the past are doomed to repeat it!

We have increased the national debt by over 60% SINCE OBAMA WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT!! What is relevant is what we have done the last 4 years and the mess Obama has caused. What happened five or ten years ago is irrelevant.

There you go! So that's Obama's fault, is it? He was left $1.6T of that from George W. Bush's last budget. But, must be Obama's fault, eh? But "last 4 years and the mess Obama has caused"? Hey, that's soooo yesterday - what happened in 2009 or 2010 is irrelevant! See how asinine you sound?

BigATC

comeon, onesoul ..... 2question for you guys......

1 million businesses that employ 25% of our workers fall into this "pay your fair share" tax level. You are the owner of one of these companies, so how do you react in your business when the new year roll around and you now have 5% less to operate your business because the govt took it?

second ...... How does taking another 5% away from these businesses encourage them to grow from a federal level?

maybe not pay themselves such a F#CKING HUGE BONUS and then that 5% is there for business expenses!

Hey Probusiness: Didn't you say if Obama wins you were going to be liquidating your business and retiring? How do you have the time to sit here and write essays on this list, with all that work to do?

Or did you change your mind?

EEngineer, they were kept off budget because it was impossimble to tell the future needs and would have been a headache and very time consuming. However, they were done as SUPPLEMENTALS, which often happens in DC, and added to the defense department budget. People assume not included in the passed budget for some reason means they weren't totaled into the deficit which is nonsense. The supplemntals added into the defense department and any other supplemental are all subsued in the outlay column and counted in year in totals.

That 1.6 Trillion figure from 2008 includes the stimulus, which Bush didn't pass.

Trillion, the bonuses you talk of come from large companies organized as C Corps that employ a very large work force. They don't fall into this category. The people that fall into the one million businesses are pass through entities, S Corps, LLC's and sole proprietors that have far less employees and big bonuses. They pay marginal rates that the president wants to raise.

fair enough, except when your boss tells you he hasn't been paid for a long time yet he now has a new lincoln...

fyi - Trillian - literary not monetary

Do not compromise Obama. The Republicans will only deal if they get their rich cronies continued tax cuts. Show them what your all about!

I agree Thomas, increase taxes across the board for the wealthy. Cut all the excess spending and everything will work out.

Yeah, doctors are going to leave their high paying medical field because of a 3% tax increase. Okay.

Every doctor is going to write medical books instead. Mm hmm. Every doctor is going to move to other countries where they will net much less. That makes good sense. All because of a 3% back to Clinton era tax increase. Well thought out.

Empty threat.

lulu98

Look up a little history about SS and Medicare. Originally it was created because 50% of the elderly were below the poverty line. It was never an entitlement for the rich or those that didn't need it. It was a safety net. That is what is wrong with fixing the problem is that multi-millionaires feel entitled and that was never the intention of the program. In the 1940's millionaires were paying into it and did not receive benefits. Today, millionaires keep their millions in IRA's or trust funds for their greedy little kids and never touch the principle because they are living off SS and Medicare. All the liberals want to tax the rich. Well 90% of Americas wealth is held by those over 55. Perhaps they should open their eyes and understand that it is hypocritical and is not working. Hell, my in-laws are 70 and haven't touched the mil they have in IRA's.

It is time to quit blaming Bush.

GET IT !!!

That is not a question, just quit the dang blame.

It is time to create a solution. Libs will not be happy until the Bush tax cuts go away so lets do that.

Realize poor and middle class got bigger tax cuts under Bush than the rich did.

Actually the upper brackets got a way bigger tax cut. They got all of the lower brackets cuts plus, except for the very bottom bracket, the biggest drop in percentage rate was for the top bracket only, and that was on unlimited income above the floor, so it resulted in the biggest return of dollars, by far.

And the recession caused by the financial collapse was Bush's fault, so it's fair to keep blaming him. To not do so is to ignore reality. We need to learn the lesson that lower taxes for the wealthy do not result in a healthy economy.

Lower taxes always result in a "healthier" economy as they did for Bush. You seem to forget the circumstances of the economy when the Bush tax cuts were implemented.

Old people benefit most on capital gains reduction but a democrat would claim it is the rich. Old people with investments will see a 33.33% decrease in net income due to higher taxes.

Keep playing blame Bush if you wish. I fail to see how that fixes anything. Obama needs to claim responsibility for something besides killing bin laden.

We didn't get out of the Great Depression by cutting spending. As a matter of fact we got out of it by spending more than we ever had, first on the New Deal and then WWII which finally put an end to the Depression.

We didn't cut social programs during the Great Depression. He created them, Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, etc.

In 1946 we had the biggest debt to GDP ratio ever, higher than today. It was 150% and we didn't cut Social Security or cut federal spending. We kept spending on the National Highway Act, the Cold War etc.

Not only did we not go into an economic downturn but we had two decades of economic boom. The famous post war economic expansion which many referred to as the "golden age of american capitalism".

ON THE OTHER HAND....

Europe has been cutting spending and slashing social programs and wages for the last 5-6 years and going deeper and deeper into recession and in some countries depression.

Now we are about to follow Europe into the abyss if Big Business and their two parties, The Democrats and Republicans, get their way.

Here's an article about it:

Growth forecasts slashed as Europe sinks deeper into crisis

By Andre Damon

9 November 2012

The European Commission, the executive body of the European Union, slashed its growth forecast for the eurozone Wednesday, as the sovereign debt crisis and global slump continued to weigh down the European economy.

The downward revisions point to a deepening economic crisis for Europe, including its largest economy, Germany. Economic contraction is exacerbated by brutal austerity measures being enforced throughout the continent…

…“Germany has so far been largely insulated from some of the difficulties elsewhere in the euro area,” said European Central Bank president Mario Draghi in a speech in Frankfurt Wednesday.

“But the latest data suggest that these developments are now starting to affect the German economy.” Draghi added that the area’s unemployment is “deplorably high” and the general outlook is “weak.”

The French economy, the second largest in the eurozone, is expected to grow only 0.2 percent in 2012 and 0.4 percent in 2013.

However, the commission said it expects countries hardest hit by the debt crisis to fare even worse. Spain, Portugal and Italy are expected to contract next year by 1.4, 3, and 2.3 percent, respectively.

The most severe conditions are faced by Greece, whose economy, battered by austerity, is expected to contract 6 percent and 4.2 percent in 2012 and 2013. The Greek economy has contracted by more than one fifth since the start of the debt crisis.

The sharply reduced growth figures came the same day as the Greek parliament passed a €13.5 billion ($17.2 billion) austerity package in the face of mass opposition and a 48-hour general strike.

Greece’s unemployment rate reached a staggering 25.4 percent in August. This compares 24.8 percent in July and 18.4 percent one year ago…

…The solution of the ruling class to the crisis is to escalate the offensive against the working class. At his press conference in Frankfurt Wednesday, Draghi gloated about the “progress” that has been made throughout Europe in slashing social spending. “Fiscal consolidation that has taken place all over the euro zone is amazing,” he said. “Compare the situation today with what it was even a year ago … There has been substantial progress.”

The “progress” referred to by Draghi is the fact that European governments have slashed hundreds of billions of dollars in social spending, wrecking the economy of Greece, throwing millions into poverty, and contributing to a recession in Europe...

…The sharp slowdown of the global economy has by no means hampered the drive for austerity on both sides of the Atlantic. Politicians from the two US political parties made moves Wednesday towards a settlement to slash trillions of dollars from key social programs such as Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security in the aftermath of the presidential election…

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/nov2012/econ-n09.shtml

old fat guy,

With all respect, you are quite mistaken. It is true that Bush did have a small recesssion on taking office. Where you are wrong is to assume the the Bush tax cuts helped that recession in any way. The term "jobless recovery" was coined to describe what happened after that slight recession. There is no single month in the Bush recovery where job growth was as high as the average growth under Clinton, with the higher tax rates.

Bush's tax cuts only gave money to a few that had too much already, which they happily invested in Credit Default Swaps which crashed the economy due to lack of oversight by the Bush administration. You and your children will be paying for that. So, yes, blame Bush. He brought you Brownie, he brought you Iraq, he brought you the collapse that cost you your future. And all to give greedy billionaires, like Sheldon Adelson, a bit more money. By the way, if you want to work for Sheldon, you will need to apply in Macau, which is in China.

Comparing anything to the Clinton era is an apples to oranges comparison. During the Clinton era the Internet was a paradigm shift that has no parallel during any era since.

Job growth under Clinton was dramatically enhanced, just like when the industrial revolution came along more than a century ago.

You can compare numbers all you like, but you can't ignore the fact that the Internet created a positive discontinuity that dramatically increased the Clinton numbers for which there is no equal during any other recent era.

Rush-Bots,

If you keep eating the Rushbo bull-crap sandwiches, your all going to find yourself very sick, isolated and lonely, because this country is moving ahead in-spite of you and your confounded bewilderment.

It's funny to watch this unfold. President Obama allowed these Republicans to dig their own grave the last time around. Now --- he's in the can-bird seat, Republicans gave it to him and they didn't even see it coming. Game, set, match -- Obama.

The people have spoken and want the rich to start paying a percentage of taxes that the rest of the people play.

People who voted for Obama have zero or very little knowledge on how the economy works.

@ ProBusiness, you are doing a fine job of trying to explain the truth. Sadly, if people don't have your level of intelligence they are not going to understand.

Barack "We Will Never Leave You" Obama is playing golf today. I hope the people suffering in NY & NJ are okay. Looters are stealing items from the destroyed homes.

Jon..

Add to the internet that worked for Clinton the cell phone revolution.

You too young to remember the internet bubble bursting and the collapse of the "NEW ECONOMY"?

A recession followed by a collapse on 9/11 ?

These are the things the Bush tax cuts fixed and did so very quickly. It only came apart when the news media convinced voters in 2006 that 5.3% unemployment was catastrophic and Pelossi and Reid came to power.

Old fat guy the Bush tax cuts fixed nothing, if they did it would still be fixed, we still have those cuts, and nothing is fixed, absolutely nothing.

"…Billions of dollars were expended by the two campaigns in the election, supposedly the most important opportunity for the American people to have a say over the future of the country. Meanwhile, the real plans of the ruling class were concealed behind the platitudes and empty rhetoric of the two candidates. Now that the elections are concluded, the agenda of the corporate-financial oligarchy is being pursued with ruthless determination…"

Obama’s post-election pivot to austerity and war

12 November 2012

With the US elections out of the way, the American ruling class is moving with remarkable speed to implement a deeply unpopular agenda centered on trillions of dollars in cuts to health care and other social programs.

The first order of business, to be at least partially implemented even before the newly elected Congress takes office in January, is the so-called “fiscal cliff.”

The language is chosen quite deliberately. The image of a “cliff”—first used by Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke in February 2012—is intended to create a sense of impending catastrophe. The fiscal cliff has become the latest mantra of the political and media establishment, complete with a continually updated countdown on CNN. The aim is to foster a crisis atmosphere to force through measures long desired by the ruling class that would otherwise be impossible to impose.

This “cliff” is an artificial creation. As a result of legislation agreed to by Congress and the Obama administration, the end of the year will bring with it the expiration of Bush tax cuts on all income brackets as well as the implementation of across-the-board cuts in military and domestic spending (excluding Social Security and Medicaid).

Other measures set to expire at the end of the year, particularly extended federal unemployment benefits, have gone unmentioned in the media. Both parties agree on the need to cut off meager assistance to the jobless.

The date of the “cliff” was quite deliberately set for after the elections to prevent the vote from becoming a referendum on the social cuts and give the White House and Congress, whichever party was in control, a free hand to impose their bipartisan austerity agenda.

Both Democrats and Republicans are hailing the prospects of an agreement that would focus on two goals: 1) Replacing the automatic spending cuts with cuts that target Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, while averting cuts to the military; 2) Moving forward on a “pro-growth tax reform,” which would include a reduction in corporate and individual tax rates combined with the elimination or scaling back of deductions that benefit the working population.

During the election campaign, Obama made an issue of calling for an end to the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy—a move that would result in a relatively small increase in the tax rate for top earners. Exploiting the popularity of raising taxes on the rich, the administration is seeking to give itself a fig leaf of “equal sacrifice” as it gets down to the business of gutting social programs…

…Whatever the details of the agreement that is ultimately reached, it will involve historic cuts to programs that benefit the working class while increasing the wealth of the financial and corporate elite….

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/nov2012/pers-n12.shtml

Jim lots-o-numbers said:

No anger, skippy boy, but now that you liberals are coming to grips with the fiscal reality that looms .... you guys are all talking politics (as usual) about how to make the Republicans look bad, while offering NO VIABLE SOLUTIONS !

The SOLUTION is to let all of the tax cuts expire and the spending cuts take effect. We will all be better off for it.

unconventional said:

Now.... If its fairness you want - then let Bush tax cuts expire for everyone.

That would be fine with me, and I make less than 35K a year.

Smlfry2 does indeed fit your posted thoughts ! So you want to reduce the disposable income of middle-class America and raise taxes on EVERYONE in the process .... at a time when unemployment is still high and the economy is still stagnant ?????????????

So your concept is to "FORCE" another recession ?????????????? I guess I should tell my daughter she will not be able to attend college after all ... Obama needs my tax dollars so he can redistribute them to others !

Okay, that was kind of unnecessary. Sorry, folks.

The TeaHaters in Congress have no Patriotic fiber, the GOP Repubs got to get the TeaBagHaters out of Congress to save the Party, it's time for them to get their heads out of their ... echo-chamber !!!

The GOP TeaBagHaters in Congress are a very serious threat to Americas economic recovery !!!

I doubt the Fiscal Cliff fight will be anything like these fights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k-ISx5pJtU

(From The Rundown)

Romney rebuts abuse claims of hitting Ryan in the head after the election, School-Bully !!!

When you post something factual, relevant, or non-inflammatory ... I will be sure to let you know !

Thanks jim, I'm looking forward to that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Compromise my a **. Mr President, ram it up Mitch McConnell's a**.

pb- You say the American people want the taxes to go up on the 1%? That is fine. But if taxes go up on the 1% then they also go up on the remaining 99%. We don't get to pick and choose who gets punished. If you think we need more tax dollars then we get more tax dollars by EVERYBODY paying more taxes.

Actually your wrong there.Just like the President said,he's ready to sign the middle class tax cut right now.Let the Republicans have to explain to the American people how they won't let them keep their tax cut unless the 1% keep their's.That's a death sentence for the Republicans.

Actually Uncle Bob 512... you are wrong. The payroll tax deduction will expire and neither party wants to extend it. Your taxes will be going up.

Also, taxing people with an AGI of more than $250,000 is more than the 1%. With all of the taxes from the PPACA affecting people with an AGI of more than $250,000, I can assure you that if I was not significantly over that amount, I would probably take a month off to make sure that I was under that amount.

Finally, an AGI of more than $250,000 is not a lot of money in many communities across the country. You are not considered wealthy at all.

dave--Actually Uncle Bob 512... you are wrong. The payroll tax deduction will expire and neither party wants to extend it. Your taxes will be going up.

Also, taxing people with an AGI of more than $250,000 is more than the 1%. With all of the taxes from the PPACA affecting people with an AGI of more than $250,000, I can assure you that if I was not significantly over that amount, I would probably take a month off to make sure that I was under that amount.

Finally, an AGI of more than $250,000 is not a lot of money in many communities across the country. You are not considered wealthy at all.

If that's true,then the Republicans will have no problem explaining their position to the American people. I can't wait to hear them explain to the average American family that $250,000 a year isn't a lot of money.

Only 2% of households make at or more than the $250,000 the President speaks of.The top end tax rate today is 35%.Under the boom economy of the Clinton days it was 39.6. The President wants to return it to the Clinton rates,or 4.6% more on the wealthy. But regardless of the rates.We all know that after deductions the wealthy don't end up paying the 35% today,nor did they pay the 39.6% under Clinton. We need no more proof than Romney's own tax return, that showed he paid 13-14% on his vast income.

So,as I said,that is a losing argument for the Republicans. If they insure,y fighting the President's plan,that 98% of working American families taxes go up,to protect the wealthy 1-2% from paying what they paid under Clinton. Then that is an argument I look forward to seeing.

This explains taxes even better:

A little tax history because it's demagogued so much.

The tax code used to have more brackets. For example, in 1931, the tax code had 23tax brackets ranging from 1.5% for income up to $4,000 to 25% for income over $100,000. Adjusted for inflation, the lowest rate applied to what is a typical middle class income today, the top rate was for income roughly around $1 million today.

In 1932, the tax tables reached 54 marginal rates up to 63% on income over $1,000,000 in 1932 dollars, well over $10mm today. In 1936, the tax code was adjusted to a top rate of 79% on income over $5mm in 1936 dollars.

The top rate hit 81% as WWII approached. In 1942, the top rate was 88% on income over $200k. In 1944, the rate was upped to 94% on income over $200,000. Rates on low and middle income earners also shot up to the mid 20%. In 1946, the top rate was lowered to 91%. Lower brackets also went down.

The top rates stayed at 91-92% until 1964 when the top rate was cut to 77% on income over $400,000. This was a substantial decrease. In 1965, the top rate was cut again to 70% where it stayed until Reagan took office.

In 1982, the top rate was cut to 50% on income of over $85,600. In 1987, the Reagan/Congress reduced it to 38.5% over $90,000. In 1988, the top rate was cut to 28% on income $149,250+. People in the next bracket down actually paid more, 33% The number of brackets decreased to 4 from the 20-something in past years. In 1991, the top bracket went to 31% on income over $82,150, 28% on income falling between $34,000-$82,150.

In 1993, Clinton and the Democrats established marginal rates of: 15% $0-$36,900 up to 39.6% $250,000+

Indexed for inflation, the rates remained static until 2001. In 2003, the top rate dropped to 35%. That's where it remains today.

Tax rates on the rich don't affect economic growth all that much. Annual GDP growth was stronger when taxes were higher than today. The economy grew on average 1.7% annually in the 2000s compared to 3.8% in the decades immediately after WWII. In the Reagan decade, economic growth average 3%. In the Clinton years, 3.2%.

What taxes do affect is the fiscal soundness of the government. The red ink started piling up immediately after we commenced our tax cutting binge in the 1980s. That's what the history books say.

"Lieing with Statistics"...When Americans eat more ice cream, more people have a tendancy to suffer from heat stroke or heat exhaustion. The statement is factual but no correlation. The same thing with tax rates after WW II to today.

After WW II, there was no place for anyone to invest their money except the US. We were the only country with an industrial complex and an intact infrastructure. It doesn't take much intelligence to absorb this into the most dense brain.

Although I agree that cutting taxes in a time of two extensive military operations was very poor judgement. But, if you look at at the graph (source from the federal government) of federal receipts received vs federal spending...you will see that the separation occurred in earnest after 2000 (the start of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan) and continues to this day.

In my opinion, the whole tax system needs to be reformed. The federal government needs to become smaller not larger.

It would seem that even the "Guru" of Conservative thought,is now ready to take the side of the President. Because he thinks the same thing that I first posted:

BILL KRISTOL: Why Are Republicans Falling On Their Sword 'To Defend A Bunch Of Millionaires?'

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/bill-kristol-taxes-millionaires-republicans-obama-boehner-fiscal-cliff-2012-11#ixzz2BzOJQdqE

Uncle Bob, since Obama wants to raise taxes on those making over $200k single/$250 k married .... please explain that BIG ASS gap inbetween those numbers and "millionaires". You libs say one thing, but then the reality of your numbers says something else.

So a man living in NYC making $350k per year, having 6 kids (yes, he's Catholic) now gets SCREWED by Obama, the "fairness fairy" ... because Bam-Bam has decided he's not paying his fair share ???

Taxes are complex and those who do not understand them should not be recklessly changing the law !

It will also be for you when you cannot get a loan or when any IRAs go south.

Let Republicans eat anxiety for awhile.

President Obama needs support, not obstructionism from the GOP TeaBagHaters in his effort to get us out of the mess that "W" left behind !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only one pouring out "HATE" is YOU "patriotic". Fiscal reality sucks when the election is over doesn't it ?

One thing is for sure, Obama sure has "INHERITED A MESS" from the guy who was elected in 2008 ! LOL !!

jim-1455434

The only one pouring out "HATE" is YOU "patriotic". Fiscal reality sucks when the election is over doesn't it ?

One thing is for sure, Obama sure has "INHERITED A MESS" from the guy who was elected in 2008 ! LOL !!

Keep laughing laughing boy; the GOPs day of reckoning is in less than 45 days.

Patriotic American,

I believe Republicans will give in to Democrats after initially balking to satisfy their Constituents.

Ol Croc, I can thoroughly tell you that NO ONE with any financial common sense is LAUGHING after the financial moron residing in the White House was re-elected ! The stock markets took a steep dive the day after his election in response !

Obama will INTENTIONALLY allow ALL the Bush tax cuts to expire, raising taxes on everyone so that he can redistribute the wealth ... he no longer has to pander for votes, worry about his popularity or worry about his re-election. It will be liberalism on steroids !!

jim-1455434

Ol Croc, I can thoroughly tell you that NO ONE with any financial common sense is LAUGHING after the financial moron residing in the White House was re-elected ! The stock markets took a steep dive the day after his election in response !

And that fills my heart with joy! I want the High Gods of Wall Street to sweat blood! I want them to sit at home waiting for the torches and pitchforks! Here's the reality of the stock market drop; they are scared to death that the Tea Party types will sabotage a "great compromise" that would offer them stability. Were they happy that President Obama was reelected? Of course not, Romney was their puppet, not Obama. Wall Street will keep their mouths shut and put pressure on the GOP. In the end the GOP will fold like a bad hand at the poker table.

Then the GOP will eat it's self. The fight will develop between the true conservatives and the Tea Party/Neoconservatives. What's left of the true conservatives understand that the GOP is dying. Only fresh blood, like a transfusion will save it. The problem the Tea Party/Neoconservatives are have is that the transfusion won't come from a white male. So do they choose to live and competition...or death with or without dignity?

Ol Croc, I see it didn't take your little mind very long before you wabbled back to the race card with talk of transfusions NOT coming from a white male ! Thanks for so quickly proving you have no valid arguments !!

Obama has raised the national debt from $10.8 trillion to over $16 trillion in less than 4 years. He has made George W. Bush look like a tightwad by comparison. Now, the fiscal reality that his proposed tax increases won't do "Squat" in reducing the deficit, you libs are back to the distortion game.

Obama simply refuses to reduce federal spending. With the impending onslaught of Obamacare, the cost projection estimates that were so conveniently "massaged" to sell it to the ignorant will now come home to roost.

When it is all done, Obama will have more than doubled the national deficit over all his predecessors combined ! Playing the "tax the rich" game will no longer work when the pencil meets the paper.

Practice your Greek and praactice your Chinese ! Obama is a financial incompetent and the next 4 years will prove it ! There are not enough "millionaires and billionaires" to fund his wet dreams, so Obama will eventually raise more taxes on everyone as he pushes the debt limit up higher and higher !

Rush-Bots,

If you keep eating the Rushbo bull-crap sandwiches, your all going to find yourself very sick, isolated and lonely, because this country is moving ahead in-spite of you and your confounded bewilderment.

Strange how republicans always become fiscal conservatives after they lose control of the credit card

Sorry, Ellis, but I have been a fiscal conservative all my life. My only debt is a home mortgage now about 30% of my home's value.

The "credit card" has been in Obama's hands for almost 4 years and that is why our country is now over $16 trillion in debt while Obama has yet to get a budget passed ! Obama resists any reduction in federal spending other than "gutting" our military budget 23%.

Obama must have money to throw away on those failed "green initiatives" !

Why not go over the cliff and see what happens, the sooner the better

It actually sounds more like a slope than a cliff.

Boehner sounds like he might actually be able to read the writing on the wall. We'll see.

It is the middle class and the poor that will "go over the cliff".

Why are dimocrats so eager to continue a "Bush policy"?

Just let those evil "Bush Tax Cuts" expire!

Have a little "back bone"...

Alan-static,

Disappointing week?

Wall Street investors fretted about gridlock in DC with the TeaBagHaters in Congress looking for Revenge !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dee Ten

It is the middle class and the poor that will "go over the cliff".

Why are dimocrats so eager to continue a "Bush policy"?

Just let those evil "Bush Tax Cuts" expire!

Have a little "back bone"...

Never fear, we will (for those earning over $250K/year).

Ol_Doc -

Anyway it goes the middle class and the poor lose.

Keep for the people under $250k/yr and expire those over $250k/year; the middle class loses jobs and the poor and middle class will pay a lot more for goods and service. Business don't remain solvent that don't pass the cost of doing business on to consumers.

Keep for everyone and the status quo is maintained.

Let the Bush Tax Cuts expire for everyone and the middle class and the rich will pay more taxes. Well maybe the rich will pay a little more but with all the loop holes in the Tax Code maybe not...

Dee Ten

Ol_Doc -

Let the Bush Tax Cuts expire for everyone and the middle class and the rich will pay more taxes. Well maybe the rich will pay a little more but with all the loop holes in the Tax Code maybe not...

You know what? ...I'll pay more, or I'll buy less. I for one am done being blackmailed by Corporations.

Ol_Doc -

"You know what? ...I'll pay more, or I'll buy less. I for one am done being blackmailed by Corporations."

Did you know blackmail is a federal crime? If you are being blackmailed by corporations, you should contact the FBI.

Someone said in earlier post that the middle class's taxes could go up 10%.Since i only paid 500$ in taxes last year I will gladly pay 50$s more to see that the rich pay their fair share.

And who decides what is "fair" ? Isn't that what the tax code is all about ?? Why is it that "the 47%" pay NOTHING at all ??? Would it be "fair" if they paid-in 3% ????

ohhh man!! how can you forget Allen West? After Mitt he comes next..

West is as good as gone.

West was defeated. Good riddance.

HammerHead Allen West can - Hit the road jack , plus I am happy to see Deadbeat Dad Joe Walsh gone , if they could have taken Vern Buchananm out it would have been great. Vern is still being investigated and maybe he will lose that way.

alex cali -

"ohhh man!! how can you forget Allen West? After Mitt he comes next.."

Easily, you just think about Joe Biden or Harry Reid or Hussein...

Voting machine software scanner failure problems, when you voted for President Obama, Romney would end up getting the vote, nice try Tagg !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The GOP elections commission said he was looking into it ??????????????????

Dee Ten

alex cali -

"ohhh man!! how can you forget Allen West? After Mitt he comes next.."

Easily, you just think about Joe Biden or Harry Reid or Hussein...

We're coming for your income...all of us socialists are just up the block and we're coming for your hard earned money...

We have finally reached the point in America where there are no longer enough "evangelical" voters to turn an election into a religiostic cluster *&%^. So it should follow that a party that platforms itself under the heading of "religiostic cluster *&%^" should go quietly into that good night without raging against the dying of the light... Instead, they start talking about how to oppose their own platform and get more votes from the "colored folk" by doing so. Come on Repubs! Don't sell out! Just go visit the Dodo already!

I am enjoying the "interviews with Dinosaurs" series playing out all over the media now though... He wasn't conservative enough!... He failed to paint Obama as a radical!... Sandy did it!... The dog ate my homework! etc., etc.

They better show some contrition for their crimes against America and get their warped minds in order quickly. That screaming chimp on their shoulders known as the tea party will be their death knell. We represent America, not 'Merka, and the differences are vast and irrefutable.

Ol_Doc -

"We're coming for your income...all of us socialists are just up the block and we're coming for your hard earned money..."

There are no blocks where I live. And I make the same money no matter whether the socialist or the conservatives are in office. Doesn't matter to me at all. It is simply a matter of changing my investments...

It is the middle class money that the socialist are after. For the rich, money is extremely liquid...

Dee Ten,

Same here, but for a different reason. I make $8,000.00 per year, so the socialists will be bringing me money when they come. My only investments are utility bills.

I have a picture in my mind of Boehner with his orange head sticking out of a red, white, and blue emblazoned leather jumpsuit (knievel) supervising the construction of a ramp at the edge in the hopes of jumping instead of just dropping off... There's a subsequent vision in which the chute fails to deploy, but I digress...

I would like to officially change the name from "fiscal cliff" to "Obstruction Junction". Much more appropo given how the debacle came to be.

I would also like to see the Republican house members tried for treason. I don't know of anyone that has willfully and publicly done more to damage the American way of life in our history. They purposely hobbled the economy as best they could and everyone knows it. They should pay for these crimes.

What an Id!ot!!! quick Alex jones is calling.....

Paul Mason,

WOW,

I think your paranoid conspiracy theory is silly.

Paul,

say what?

Good God Paul, take your meds and stop listening to Glen Beck. Sheesh.

You're out of your raving mind!!!

Gwaddamn! Waah,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha, waah,ha,ha,ha,ha,...............................Gwaddamn!!............Waaaah,ha,ha,ha,ha,..................

Everybody, please ignore Paul Mason. A brainwashed zombie TROLL of the ReThUG party. He has been listening to Rush and Loon Beck and Rove, Batsheet Bachman, and O'Reilly and all the FAUX lackeys, he is getting Schizophrenia.

Yes, they do have computers in mental institutions. It’s good therapy for the inmates.

Paul, I would love to know where you got all that "wonderful" information from. Would love to read that info for myself.

Dude! I is time to change the tinfoil in your hat!

Paul, you are jumping the gun. Prophesy says that the Messiah destroys the Great Satan in his THIRD term.

If you check Paul's previous comments, he went about 14 months between posts. I wonder what that means?

Paul W Mason

They're just outside the door Paul. ACORN...the IRS...the UN...the ACLU...they're all outside your door with automatic weapons. They plan to take you to the DHS concentration camps in Arizona where they'll take away your bible. Then they'll make your sister have an abortion and force you to sing "We take care of our own".

Please go back on your meds...

that's straightup the craziest shizz i've heard since a homeless dude was screaming into a payphone about being a secret agent. bravo.

Well Paul, where to start... hmm... No one is here to hurt you. We're your friends. We only want what's best for your safety and the safety of those around you. Now each one of us are going to read a little something to you that we wrote individually as just sort of a way of letting you know that we're behind you. You've had an effect on all of us and have touched many lives... Ok. Aunt Margie... would you like to go first?

So you are advocating "DEATH" to those with different political opinions from yours ? Let me guess .... you are a self-declared "Progressive" !!!

Where are all your liberal buddies to declare your call for murder as inflammatory ??

I have WORDS to describe people like you, but if I were to actually put them out here, I would be suspended for a week or more while a "angry person" like yourself would get a free pass.

jim-1455434

Where are all your liberal buddies to declare your call for murder as inflammatory ??

AngrySailor...you're a bad boy. There Jim, feel better?

Ol Croc, I have learned to expect very little from you ... and you do not disappoint !

Yes there is an explanation. It NEVER happened. Micheal Savage is out of his mind. Quit listening to him.

I'm more interested in the light guns .. they are easier to hide.

Yea, try listening to Dan Savage instead. (Google Santorum) ;-)

The President sent guns? What agencies? My family is large enough to pass as an agency. We all voted for the President. We didn't get any guns. Why didn't we get any guns? I like guns. Whom do we need to contact to get some of these here now guns? I've got a lot of deer and squirrels aggravating the hell outta me. I would shoot 'em if I had some of these guns. I'm royally pissed. Contact your people "Paul". See if you can get me at least a 30/30.

The battle isn’t until January, 2017 when Sarah Palin or Michele Bachmann or Jeb Bush tries to move into the White House. Obama has been stockpiling weapons and will barricade the doors. When the republicans break down the front door, Obama will be standing there with a machine gun and says “meet my little friend” as he spays them with bullets. Anybody see “Scarface”? That’s how it’s going to be.

Where is MY gun, Paul??? I voted for Obama; I should get one. Put me down for a Glock .40. And a bayonet, because we still use those.

...although there are fewer bayonets and jeeps these days.

They need to make it okay to file bankruptcy on all student loan debt. Scare the heck out of the schools.

I think the current 401(k) contribution limit is reasonable, as well as writing of mortgage interest. But I do not believe encouraging other types of debt would be constructive. Our society is already too debt dependent.

@jolly joker: The schools do not fund the student loans. Allowing bankruptcy for student loans would increase debt to the government or losses to the banks. If it is losses to the banks, it will drive up the interest rates on student loans unless they are underwritten by the government.

There is a limit on 401K contributions? Mitt has over a hundred million in his. Unless he started his 401K before Jesus was born, there must be a way around the limit.

@JimS12345: Mitt doesn't have hundreds of millions in a 401k...it's in an IRA. There are limits on both. However, if you leave a company and your company allows your retirement to be rolled over into a personal IRA, it's not considered an annual contribution, therefore, there is no limit.

@jolly joker. Why do you think people who took out loans have no obligation to pay the money back? Most of us try to do that every day. Why should these loans not be paid?

Furthermore, JimS12345, An individual has the ability to make "NON-DEDUCTIBLE" contributions to an IRA. This is nothing new and has been around for decades. Once the money is into an IRA, the success or lack thereof is dependant on how wisely that money is invested and it can grow significantly over time !

Then, of course, retirement plan distributions from companies can frequently be rolled over into an IRA.

Mitt Romney has show an astute ability to invest his money wisely and that is why he is wealthy. Obama invests U.S. money in failed grren energy programs like Solyndra, GM stock and other sure losers. I would not recommend him as an investment counselor for your IRA !!

Do nothing whiner? He worked His a$$ off for you!!!

I am stilling waiting for that first banker to go jail for the 7 trillion dollar housing ponzi scheme. Better yet, lets bail them out and really scr ew americans. Let the fed just dump money all over the place... he worked hard there. Lets give him a raise. OH, that health insurance reform that was good. Never mind that it didn't focus on health care reform. 30 million more slaves to the AMA and the insurance industry..... I feel so much better the consumer protection bureau has my back and why, those gas prices just keep dropping. ! The unemployement rate, that is also so wonder ful as we sell our jobs to the chinese. Gotta compete with the slaves you know.@

Everything bad happened before He took Office. Consumer Protection Agency and gas prices have NOTHING to do with one another. I suggest a Economics 101 coarse

Try some reality for yourself ! "Everything bad happened before he took office" ????? Gimme a freakin break ! Are you clowns going to continue setting up Obama's alibis for FOUR MORE YEARS ???? Do you ever grow a pair and accept responsibility or is this lame old "blame game" all you have got ??

I suggest an English 101 "COURSE" for you !

tryreality-1568930

"Do nothing whiner? He worked His a$$ off for you!!!"

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!

Hussein hasn't worked a day in his life. If it wasn't for "affirmitive action" and rich dimocrats, Hussein would be in a welfare line somewhere...

Well, you can get off of your high horse, because when the DoD budget gets axed it translates to thousands of decent jobs getting axed. That will ripple through the economy, making it even worse.

You don't seem to understand that the defense of this nation is supposed to be the primary function of the federal government.

Perhaps you need to re-read the Constitution - which actually overrides many on the nanny-state laws currently on te books that need to be done away with.

The GOP loses the house in 2014 no matter what.Besides they have the best of both worlds when they are out power.They get all the benefits the Democrats pass and none of the blame.

The GOP will not lose the House in 2014. Just like the mid terms of 2010, the voting participation will go down and the GOP will maintain a slim margin. The senate won't change either. Nobody appears to be in any threatening race. Even the democrat senators in heavy blue states won't see a challenge.

It would cost me a couple hundred bucks a month, but I'd figure it out. I expect a last minute compromise like the debt ceiling fiasco.

Meanwhile, some of the Wrongme supporters have absolutely gone Bat Guano crazy in the last few days. They are pretty scary.

Michael, It is really quite EASY to identify you as a BS artist ! As soon as you start with your crystal ball proclaiming with great certainty what Mitt Romney "was going to ...", YOU LOSE all credibility !

The truth of the matter is this: Barack Obama is ON THE RECORD as previously saying he was going to redistribute the wealth ! Now that he has been re-elected, there is no incentive for him to keep ANY of the Bush tax cuts around !! Obama can play hardball, let them expire and RAISE TAXES ON EVERYONE WHO PAYS TAX ........ and then blame the Republicans for the result ! Liberal fools will accept it as truth while Obama begins re-distributing U.S. wealth globally !!

Why yes ! God forbid the United States under Barack Obama should DARE to actually have a BUDGET as required by law ! We are only $16 trillion ++ in debt at this time, why in the world would we need a financial plan for the future economic health of our country ??

FOORRRWWWWAAAAARRRRRRDDDDDDD !!!!!!!! Over the financial cliff .... Obama says it must be done !

Which Republicans? The Fiscal Conservatives or the Social Conservatives or the Religious Right? Because they are not all the same and individually they do not make 50% of anything.

If this wasn't so sad and depressing, it would be hilarious! It's simply a tempest in a tea cup! I have watched these last two days as people from both sides analyze the election, and offer their ideas on what the Republicans should do, going foward. It matters only in the timing of future events. The last decision point that could have changed the trajectory of the Country was November 6th!

The outcome is predictable now, only the timing is uncertain! In fact the outcome , actually WAS predicted, even as the Nation was being born, should we ever allow our Republic to degenerate into this Representative Democracy we now suffer with!

" A Democracy cannot exist as a permanany form of Government. It can only exist untill the voters discover that they can vote themselves largees from the Public Treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the Candidates promising the most benifits from the Public Treasury, with the results that a Democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy and is always followed by a Dictatorship! Alexander Fraser Tytler

Many I've talked with say I'm over reacting and that "We are too big and too important to fail"! I'm reasonably certain that the citizens of Ancient Greese and Ancient Rome, were scrambling around, as many are now, planning a way to save the situation, believing exactly the same falsehood, even as their Nations collapsed oround their ears!

The demise of these cultures came at the hands of military actions. Ours will be much less physical! It will instead come at the hands of the IMF,OPEC, and the G-8! It shouldn't take them much more than a year or so to finalize their plans for SDR's and replace the American Dollar as not only the new "Petro Dollar" but also the Global Reserve Currency!

No!

He didn't get re-elected because the supply siders turn against him, and because he Poo Pooed Reaganomics, also Perot took a substantial portion of the republican votes.

Oh, by all means ... let's RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE so we can send even MORE jobs to China !!!

Do any liberals understand that lower production costs abroad are WHY manufacturing jobs have left !

It was his pledge to not raise taxes but then he did.

lulu. Yep. That's why I didn't vote for him second go around. "Read my lips" sounded nice in the campaign. I was less concerned about raising the taxes then his casual disposal of his integrity. Ironic now that he accepted tax increases in exchange for spending cuts. Cuts that never happened by the way -but the taxes sure did.

the wolves are the tax eaters which are the moochers who voted for obama...

We simply need to get smarter and realize the financial health of our country is the foundation on which all other components of the "hierarchy of needs" of the U.S. depends. Our country under Obama cannot continue indefinitely spending annual trillions beyond our income. Obama refuses to cut the growth of government and has done little with the money he has wasted !