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Subscribe to RSSBack to work… Questions for the Obama White House and congressional Republicans in the upcoming “fiscal cliff” negotiations… Soul-searching time for the GOP… Lessons learned from the ’12 election: Florida’s I-4 Corridor isn’t really a swing area anymore… Can’t buy me love: GOP Super PACs didn’t deliver… And a final note: First Thoughts will return on Monday.
A slew of deadlines are coming up at the end of the year, the biggest is the unfinished business on taxes and it means president and Congress must compromise. The Daily Rundown's Chuck Todd reports.
*** Back to work: Today is President Obama’s first full day back at the White House since his re-election. And with the so-called “fiscal cliff” approaching -- the expiration of the Bush tax cuts, as well as the looming defense and other spending cuts -- the Obama White House faces this question: Do they go for a big deal now? Some are skeptical, even inside the White House; after all, they’ve been burned before (see: debt-ceiling fight). On the other hand, this might be their best (and perhaps only) opportunity to go big on tax reform and deficit reduction -- and get it done on their terms. And congressional Republicans face their own question: How much fight do they have in them? Yesterday, House Speaker John Boehner gave this statement: “In order to garner Republican support for new revenues, the president must be willing to reduce spending and shore up entitlement programs that are the primary drivers of our debt.” For what it’s worth, many Democratic officials were impressed with how serious Boehner sounded about striking a different tone. It’s why there wasn’t much of an immediate response negative or positive. Wait ‘til next week for a more official posture.
NBC's Chuck Todd weighs in on the slew of year-end deadlines facing President Obama and Congress, including the fiscal cliff.
*** Soul-searching time for the GOP: So what went wrong for the GOP in the presidential contest? Was it the candidate? (Was Romney simply ill-suited to win Midwest states like Iowa, Ohio? Remember, his primary/caucus performance in those states wasn’t all that stellar, especially give the competition.) Was it his campaign? (You could argue that the Ford Field and Clint Eastwood missteps weren’t things a winning campaign would do.) Or was it simply the party? (Akin/Mourdock certainly didn’t help with women; the GOP has had a problem with Latinos since Bush’s immigration reform went down to defeat; and the party’s fav/unfav score in our NBC/WSJ poll reflects a major brand problem.) The simplest answer is that it’s probably all three -- the candidate, the campaign, and the party and we’d argue party image/brand probably had the most to do with it. Sure, a better candidate and campaign might have been able to overcome some of the structural issues. But the fact is, the party’s brand/image is a structural problem. Also, one more point about Tuesday: The defeat had NOTHING to do with Hurricane Sandy. On “TODAY,” former Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour said, “Hurricane Sandy saved Barack Obama’s presidency.” But if that’s so, how do you explain all the early-voting numbers before Sandy hit? And more importantly, Sandy doesn’t explain the GOP’s decisive demographic defeat. Folks that point the finger at Sandy are simply rationalizing and avoiding the real problem.
Brendan Hoffman / Getty Images
President Barack Obama makes a statement in the White House briefing room.
*** Lessons learned from the election: Florida’s I-4 Corridor isn’t as swing an area as it used to be: Between now and the end of the year, we’ll be digging deep into the returns, exit polls and other aspects of the campaign to provide you with a full autopsy of what happened here in First Thoughts and on lessons we learned from the election. Today’s entry: The much-talked-about I-4 Corridor area in Florida isn’t a swing area anymore. We took a look six key I-4 counties around Tampa and Orlando (Hillsborough, Polk, Osceola, Orange, Seminole, and Volusia), and found that top Republican candidates – from 1992 to 2006 – netted more votes out of those counties. But that trend is going away. In 2008, Obama netted 109,000 votes from those counties. Even in 2010, failed gubernatorial candidate Alex Sink netted 15,000 (a losing candidate, still winning I-4). And in this year’s election, Obama netted 110,000 votes. One of the big reasons for this change: The huge growth in Latino (non-Cuban) voters in this area.
*** Can’t buy me love: Remember all that GOP-leaning Super PAC money? According to the Sunlight Foundation, the Karl Rove-backed American Crossroads and the affiliated Crossroads GPS spent nearly $200 million, and lost in most races where they spent money. (Sunlight calculates that just 1.29% of what American Crossroads spent and 14.4% of what Crossroads GPS spent resulted in the desired outcome.) In addition, the New York Times reports that all eight of the candidates that mega-donor Sheldon Adelson supported ended up losing. Before the election, we posed this question: Would all the GOP Super PAC money move the needle or would it just make local TV stations richer? It looks like it was the latter. As we discovered in 2010, Super PAC ads that weren’t responded to can play a BIG role. But when there’s a response -- whether it was the Obama campaign or the Democratic-leaning Super PACs -- you end up with something that looks like a World War I battle over the airwaves.
*** A final note: And with the election now over, we won’t be publishing First Thoughts tomorrow. See you Monday.
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"Red States and Blue States", sent to me by a friend in a Blue State on the eve of the election. My apologies to any friends in Red States who don't find it humorous.
Dear Red States:
We're ticked off at your Neanderthal attitudes and politics, so we've decided we're leaving.
We in New York, Mass and CA intend to form our own country and we're taking all the other Blue States with us. In case you aren't aware that includes Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Md, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, Vermont, the rest of the Northeast, and DC also.
We believe this split will be beneficial to the entire nation and especially to the people of our new country called "The Enlightened States of America" (E.S.A).
To sum up briefly:
You get Texas, Oklahoma, AZ and all the slave states.
We get stem cell research, the best beaches, and we'll take all of the creative gay people you don't want anyway.
We get Barack and Michelle, Bill & Hillary, Andrew Cuomo, Elizabeth Warren, and Dianne Feinstein. You get Bobby Jindal, Rick Perry and Todd Akin.
We get the Statue of Liberty. You get OpryLand.
We get Apple, Intel, Microsoft and all the smart technology. You get WorldCom, the Koch Bros, and all the coal/oil pollution.
We get Harvard, Yale, Columbia, UC, Stanford and Princeton. You get Ole' Miss.
We get Silicon Valley, NYC, San Fran, Seattle and 85 percent of America's venture capital and best entrepreneurs.
You get Alabama and Arkansas.
We get two-thirds of all the tax revenue. You get to make the red states pay their fair share.
Our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the Christian Coalition states, so we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of angry single moms and deadbeat dads.
With the Blue States in hand we will have firm control of 80% of the country's fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and lettuce, 92% of the nation's fresh fruit, 95% of America's quality wines (you can serve Ripple at your state dinners), 90% of the best cheese, 90 percent of the high tech industry, most of the US low sulfur coal, all the living redwoods, solar power, the Sequoias and condors, all the Seven Sister schools, plus Harvard, Yale, Stanford, UC, UCLA, Cal Tech and MIT.
With the Red States you will have to cope with 88% of all the obese Americans and their projected healthcare costs, 92% of all US mosquitoes, nearly 100% of the tornadoes, 90% of the hurricanes, 99% of all the Southern Baptists, virtually 100% of all televangelists, plus Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia.
We also get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you very much. You get Appalachia.
You get the 38% of those in the Red states who believe that the world was created in 7 days and that Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale, the 62% who are pro-life for fetuses but not for the kids who are actually born or their Moms, those who believe life is sacred unless we're discussing the death penalty or gun laws, the 44% who know that evolution is only a theory, the 53% who still believe that Saddam was part of 9/11 and had weapons of mass destruction, that Obama was born in Kenya, and the 61% of those crazy bastards who even believe they have higher morals than we do.
We're taking all the good weed too. You can have that crap they grow in Mexico.
Sincerely,
A Citizen of the Enlightened States of America
Well, the US stock markets have cast their vote on the prospect of another four years of Barry. And yesterday’s losses say they think four more years of Barry sucks.
Let’s look at the ridiculous “Barry mandate” lie that lefty liberal morons (Yeah, I already know that term is redundant) are telling themselves and trying to spoon-feed to their low information supporters. First, Barry won in 2012 by a lower popular vote margin than he had in the hopey-changey 2008 election. Second, as I posted about a week ago, Barry’s political career has been a series of proofs of the saying “It’s better to be lucky than good”. Barry’s 2012 win is mostly due to the Republican’s stupidity of nominating a fatally flawed, unelectable candidate. And Romney, as bad as he was, still was able to get almost as many votes from the American people as Barry did.
Next: If the American people were to have believed the lefty liberal big-govt-is-the-solution nonsense, why am I not now dreading Madam Speaker Pelosi returning to flying her broom over the House chamber cackling at the Republican’s “I’ll get you my pretties, and your little dogs too”??
The simple FACT is that there was NO mandate in the 2012 election for either side of the aisle. And anyone who claims there was a mandate for Barry’s lefty liberal positions has to accept the mandate the American people gave to the House Republican’s to oppose those positions.
So, many Democrats did what so many Democrats do last Tuesday. They voted in a Presidential election. They returned President Obama to the White House, and they voted for Democrats whose sole virtue is that they had a "D" after their name. Boy, that was sure hard. Unfortunately, too many Democrats think they have now done their civic duty and can sit on their fannies for the next four years. It's time to lay out the facts for the four-year Dems. We have elections between those four-year-periods.
Our right to vote has been limited since the founding of the United States. When we first became a nation, only 21-year-old white males, who were free, and owned property could vote. That's it. That means the majority of us reading this right now, couldn't have voted back then. Today, almost any citizen over the age of 18 can vote, but a huge number of those eligible to vote can't be bothered to do so. In Political Science the term for those people is SCUM.
In any case, these scum have been around since the founding of our nation and in a 1790 speech upon the right of election, John Philpot Curran said, "It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt." OK. Maybe it's not scum. Maybe it's "the indolent".
Another fellow by the name of George Washington said, "Government is not reason, nor eloquence. It is force. And like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearsome master." Good government not only requires vigilance, it demands participation.
The right to vote did not come easy. It wasn't handed to us. We had to fight to get it, and today, we must still fight. Right now, we are watching Republican-dominated statehouses trying to limit our vote. Polling places aren't open as long as they once were. They insist on picture identification cards. (I wonder what George Washington's looked like.)
The indolent may have their servitude. That is their choice. For those of us who understand the perils of unchecked government, we must remind our representatives that they are in office to represent our wishes. We give them power to use wisely, not to subject us to tyranny. We are the masters and government is the servant.
We come here to talk to each other, to complain about government overreaching, ineptitude, waste, and so on. That's fine, but we had better act on that information. Why not send a short note to your representatives gently reminding them that they must see to it that our voting rights are not curtailed in any way, shape, or form. The responsibility for federal elections rightfully belongs at the federal level. They really need a gentle reminder of that fact.
Oh Jack!
Perfect post for the prime parking spot! lmao
Or an election apparently! lol
Rumor has it the "fat cats" are LIVID!
Which makes me extremely happy!
Stock Market had nothing to do with Europe's woes?
Stock Market had nothing to do with Europe's woes?
____________________________________
"Europe's woes" have been hanging over the stock market's for several years now. Ask yourself what was the ONE thing that was different yesterday compared to the last several years that might be responsible for those huge losses: The certainty of four more years of Barry.
Can you say "A vote of no confidence"??
Sure you can.
All of R-money's friends took their gains out, knowing that R-money won't be pushing for a BIGGER tax cut for his fat cat friends come January 2013.
Joe in Albany -- Let's look at how the right is trying to frame the loss. This guy quoted a few conservatives:
Jack: thanks for a good laugh this morning. After the election, it is needed!
David's post is important and I hope you all read it. The biggest lesson I got from this election, is that our right to vote is under serious attack. Did you see the lines of people trying to make sure that their vote counted?
We have got to stop this drive from the right to limit access to voting. It is a CONSTITUTIONAL right, and every citizen should be able to cast a vote without harassment, without having to wonder which, of several documents they will have to have to prove they CAN vote, and without private groups sticking cameras in their faces to intimidate them, and issuing frivolous challenges IN MINORITY DISTRICTS, to stop that vote from happening.
I am outraged that this is happening. Are you?
4 more years. 4 more years. Can't get enough of it. Saw a big drop off of our Repug friends yesterday. Understandable. But I hope they don't leave us for good. I love bartering back and forth with them. And I'll confess, they even come up with a good point now and then.
Now let's all have some fun for the next 4 years.
Joe .... Europe cheered the re-election of Obama and still their markets plunged. But hey, maybe the US markets were disappointed that the Republicans held onto the house?
Respectfully Joe, I see it differently. I see that Congress has a mandate to actually DO something cooperatively instead of sitting on their collective thumbs. The "unexpected by some" re-election of the President has now placed a significant impetus on the Republicans to stop the obstructionism or face future losses in the 2014 mid-terms.
Another mandate I see is that the Republicans, in order to be competitive in National elections, MUST now actually incorporate a "big tent" policy instead of simply giving lip service to it. They will need to radically re-define their Party or face being left behind. This means they will have to become more centrist and recognize that society and social make-up are continuing to evolve.
The Republicans have a golden opportunity to redefine themselves as continuing to be relevant. It starts with the budget negotiations, the rejection of obstructionism, and acting for the good of the entire country and not just the few.
Joe Albany is just too brilliant for the rest of us. He's the Money Man, knows everything there is to know about the stock market. Never mind that the stock market would have plunged the day after the election no matter who was elected, for the simple reason that investors are skittish about uncertainties associated with the "fiscal cliff". Smart businessmen know that uncertainty is the prime driver behind today's sluggish economy--that's why several heads of businesses and corporations sent Congress a letter and demanded they deal with the fiscal cliff so they can get on with . . . wait for it . . . hiring new employees.
But Joe Albany (or "the Albanian Idiot", as David aptly named him) knows all. It's "Barry's" fault stocks fell yesterday. And, of course, the stock market has done so poorly over the four years that "Barry" has been in office.
Yes, Joe Albany is a genius, a stock market Wizard. If you don't believe me, just ask him.
With all the talk of "The President Has To Learn To Compromise" I have a question...
Don't Congressional Republicans need to learn to compromise?
The Albanian Idiot has taken stupidity to a new level. This is the guy who tells us how well he eats, how successful he is in the market, even during the last four years, but somehow President Obama is doing him wrong. BS.
Yesterday's stock market drop meant absolutely nothing. The drop reflects the action of 30 stocks. That's it. Thirty! The market fluctuates. Surely a market savvy genius like Joe knows that, and there are many variables in the decision to buy or sell. One of those just might be the fear that Boehner won't be able to marshal the votes necessary to deal with the sequestration that Congress created. (Surely, he'll be back to criticize when the DJIA goes through 14,000.)
Better lucky than good, says the idiot. The net effect of the Obama Presidency has been GOOD. If the idiot wishes to attribute that to luck, so be it. It's been good for him, right? Yet, he complains.
When the new software fails at the Vine and the "ignore" feature fails, I am reminded by the idiot's posts that the beauty of being stupid is that you don't know you're stupid.
Nice DCIA but if the mandate was "you can't have your country back", what happened to the House and gaining more seats in it? After all, isn't that where most legislation and funding decisions are made first?
Jack, absolutely perfect! Please add middle and eastern Iowa in the blue states group; we'll give bigot House Rep Steve King's district to the red states.
R & R Dirty diapers are isolated in the Rubbish, hold your noses !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In an Albanian world, when the stock market goes up, it is because of the republicans in the do nothing house. When the stock market goes down, it is because of President Obama. Didn't you hear, the stock market crash of 2008 was all Obama's fault. Apparently, in an Albanian world, the simple of act of Obama entering the primary caused a world-wide global financial meltdown. The Albanian loves to brag about his market prowess - I'd suggest sticking with Dear Abby for market advice.
Jack in Portsmouth: Great! But like it or not New Jersey is coming with you.
When they get back to work trying to get our massive debt under control, here is a good place to start cutting ........ http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffrontpagemag.com%2F2012%2Ffrank-crimi%2Fobama-rebuilds-mosques-while-churches-burn%2F&ei=CMGbUJ68GYK8yAGww4DADg&usg=AFQjCNF0YrlcWs9UAXmDT6rSUHR0E2El9A
Anyone with a brain knows that the market goes down right after an election.
As far as a right wing nut jobs ole Joe in Albany-1902257 lays out the GOP Cult bubble people vision.
Bottom line they lost, and they can take their crap to the back of the bus and shut up.
Republicans are outdated. Its time for a third party to provide a legitimate opposition to the Democrats, one that is founded on reason and modesty rather than faith and hyperbole, and one doesn't carry the baggage of social retrospection or groveling to the rich and the manipulation of the uneducated. Our country would stand so much better for it.
Talk,
US House - With 9 undecided contests the Dems have already reached where they are now at 193. In the 9 too close to call contests the Dems are leading in 6.
My... my... my...
The Idiot from Albany sure is irritated this morning, keep choking on your crow, there is still a foot sticking out!
Excuses are cheap Joey, much like yourself!
Personally, I am going to enjoy watching you wallow in your misery for the next 4 years. I can't think of anyone more deserving than a bitter, petty, hateful hyena like yourself!
I told you years ago, Karma is a bitch buddy... enjoy!
First order of business in the Oval Office:
"Rep. Bohner and Senator McConnell, are you serious about helping this time. If so, remove obstructionist committee chairs like Rep. Issa. This country needs unity and not division.
Second order of business:
Mr. Rupert Murdoch, are you going to operate an objective news organization or a 24/7 fact-distorting joke? This country needs to unity and not division.
Third order of business:
Let's get to work representing the entire American people.
Sorry, double post.
Time to take the party back!!
Ok...enough is enough. It's time for the non-Tea Party / non-Purist wing of the Republican party to take it back. Look...the Tea Party is certainly welcome in the Republican Party. However, they should be only a PART of it. Right now we are killing ourselves in the primaries. Look at what has happened in 2010 and 2012. Take 2010...Delaware was next to a lock for the Republican party if they nominated centrist Mike Castle...instead...he isn't Republican enough...nominate the ultra conservative, lose the Senate seat in a landslide. 2012...Richard Lugar's Indiana Senate seat would have been a lock if Lugar had won the primary...but...he wasn't pure enough...not Republican enough. So we get Murdock...and he loses in a state that Romney carried easily.
I know what some are going to say...Romney wasn't the most conservative candidate in the presidential primaries. I agree...but look at what happened in the primaries...everyone had to race to the extreme right to satisfy the Tea Party segment. Romney was NEVER an ultra conservative. So what happens...he races right like everyone else to get the nomination and when he tries to come back to the center it doesn't work. It only exacerbates the "flip-flopper" label.
My solution to this is simple. The reason the Tea Party is driving the primaries so much is that they are the motivated ones who get out and vote. The rest of the party needs to get out there and become more involved in the primary process. Because right now, the Tea Party's domination of the Republican primaries has cost us around 5 Senate seats at least. Yes...they are a highly motivated segment, but they shouldn't be the segment that drives the whole party.
Sorry for being a little long winded today...just wanted to get that off my chest.
Happy Thursday!
And FR...enjoy the long weekend. I think you might have earned it! ;-)
Good question, Da Noid.
On a personal note, I really wish I could have been in the room when some poor soul had to explain to Mittens and Queen Ann that, no, they can't schedule movers for the White House, they LOST:
I imagine the conversation went something like this:
Queen Ann: "I have everything ready to move, would someone tell Michelle that I want to get into my new house early, and have it totally cleaned and renovated? We must be sure that the White House is up to my standards. Oh, and do schedule an artist of some repute to be ready to paint my portrait on the balcony, it is MY balcony and I want that done right away.
What? What's that? We LOST! What do you mean we LOST, we told "those people" who to vote for! Mitty has his acceptance speech ready to give! We don't do concession speeches!
Mitty...you have some explaining to do, you PROMISED ME THE WHITE HOUSE FOR CHRISTMASS!!!"
How long do you suppose it will be before Mitty is allowed to sleep in one of their many houses again?
I put Joe Scarborough on this morning because David Axelrod was going to be a guest. Who btw I didn't get to see because I had to leave for work.
When I first put the program on Joe Scarborough (when for the few minutes he wasn't talking about himself) talked about the subtraction of people the GOP has been doing for decades. And I got to thinking about subtraction as far as viewers.
Joe Scarborough and Howard Fineman and Andrea Mitchell and Arianna Huffington and many many others who I had over the years respected, until Barack Obama's first presidential campaign, changed my tune.
You want to talk about subtraction? There's a reason we are not watching these programs or reading their articles.
They are unfair and dishonest.
And the subtraction is going to continue because we have had it with the inside the beltway BS.
And for the record. President Obama has reached across the aisle a million times. He has said over and over and over that he will continue to do.
It's the republicans who haven't done it.
President Obama is not a back room cigar smoking phony. And I hope he never becomes one. It's not who he is.
Tell the republicans to freakin' work. It's what they're getting paid to do. It's what they were freakin' elected to do.
Joe you keep posting the same old crap day after day. We don't have to read your posts, all we have to do is see what the bad news of the day is and your post will say it's all President Obama's fault You're irreverent man except it.
I don't see any articles harping on the fact that Florida refuses to declare the winner. It's a disgrace to those in Democratic districts that were forced to endure six hours in line in an attempt to suppress their vote not to have their voice heard that President Obama won Florida.
This refusal to announce President Obama the winner is just another attempt to disenfranchise these voters in the future and to make them feel that they do not count and will not count. We should be discussing this.
You might feel that it's not important because the election has already been decided but you are wrong. This is another tactic of voter suppression so these people will not turn out for the next election. It's deliberate and wrong.
Whoo Hoo Feisty, the foot did it for me this morning--crow claws hahahahaahahahhaah.
Obama 2012--2016
Looks like the Red State got the shaft. The Opryland theme park closed in 1997. ;-)
David Walker, well said. Democrats, progressives, liberals, moderates, and the republicans who voted to keep moving FORWARD, remember President Obama's words: change happens from the bottom up. If you want to end the gridlock in Congress, want action, send your representatives e-mails. Call them, bug the heck out of them. DO NOT sit on our election night victory. Get FIRED UP, and GET GOING. Hold those elected leaders feet to the fire.
Talk -- Did you even pay attention to what took place Tuesday? Read Dennis's post.
David, Jack, Matthew -- Loved your posts today!
"Property is the fruit of labor; property is desirable; is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence, is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence when built." – Abraham Lincoln in a March 21st 1864 address
If Obama is responsible for the fall in the stock market, why then isn't he responsible for the rise in the stock market?
Joe in Albany i quote you "Let’s look at the ridiculous “Barry mandate” lie that lefty liberal morons (Yeah, I already know that term is redundant) are telling themselves and trying to spoon-feed to their low information supporters."
I have read this board and heard you complain about some poster who are reduced to name calling and just general nastiness but what you posted shows that there is no healing any breach that exists with you and those who don't think like you. Being congenial isn't a gay thing you know.
Just so you know the stock market was at about 6000 - 7000 when the President took office so losing a few hundred points is not a panic it will rebound, it isn't a repudiation on the President.
Let you guys tell it China owns the US anyway I just ask that whatever your story is keep it consistent besides saying Obama failed, if he did how did he fail? where are the signs of failure? lets discuss issues enlighten us liberal and we will help you see the errors in your ways also
I can't speak for everyone, but i liquidated my dividend portfolio before the election and put it all in a bond fund just for this scenario. Does anyone think Obamas plan to increase dividend taxes on the top rate from 15% to 43.3% won't effect the investors? Thats an almost 200% increase. Combine that with increased cap gains and increased marginal rates and you think that had no effect on the market????? Of course it did.
Megyn’s March
From the article above:
Karl Rove had a very bad night on Tuesday.
We have all seen the clips of Megyn Kelly’s now famous ‘march’ down the halls of Faux to the decision desk where the number’s cruncher’s quickly debunked Karl’s belief that the Governor was going to win Ohio.
Courtesy of Open Channel on NBC News.com By Micheal Isikoff, NBC News
Karl Rove was the political genius of the George W. Bush era -- the architect of the last Republican president's two electoral victories. But this week, he may have had the worst election night of anybody in American politics.
A study Wednesday by the Sunlight Foundation, which tracks political spending, concluded that Rove's super PAC, American Crossroads, had a success rate of just 1 percent on $103 million in attack ads -- one of the lowest "returns on investment" (ROIs) of any outside spending group in this year's elections.
On last night’s The Daily Show, John Stewart proceeded to show how Roger Ailes and the Faux Empire has decided to double down and do business as usual by debunking all the facts of why the Governor lost the election and blame, you guessed it, the “Liberal Media” and even the President himself.
It’s plainly obvious, that attacking the President, and attacking Democrats is all Roger and Rove know how to do. They have no intention of showing any ‘Fair and Balanced’ coverage towards the President in the next four years, nor do they really give a damn about what the majority of the American public think.
Salud
Reading the articles on GOP donors this am I see they learned nothing from this election. They talk about using their millions to purchase "grass roots" campaign for next time. ??? They are still planning on running Santorum in 2016. Can you imagine him during the primaries again? Once you try to out crazy him in the primaries to win you are doomed for the general. But if Republicans want to waste more money on crazy I say let them. And lets help them, like McCaskill did, and get the crazy candidate you want to run against in the general for the ultimate win. A good debate would be Clinton v Bush but I can already see a Santorum v Clinton or Gillibrand or? That will be about as black and white race as anyone can expect for 2016. Can't wait.
Frank "Grimey" Grimes, Springfield, USA
Agree with you there Frank. My biggest problem with Romney was his choice of Ryan as VP (who is ultra conservative).
I believe Mit was to beholding to the ultra right (Norquist, Kock brothers, Adelson) to do anything more than rubber stamp the far rights agenda.
The country was stunned when the video was released of Romney bashing 47% of the country, describing them as lazy. Ex-Queen Ann shocked the country we she went public with her "you people" statement. Well, folks, US people Mitt and Ann referred to have now been given formal names from their rabid, avid support Ted Nugent - we are formally known as Pimps, Whores, and Welfare Brats.
That next door neighbor teacher is a WHORE, the fireman or policeman across the street is a PIMP, and that single parent mom working at Wal-Mart is a Welfare Brat. Thanks Ted - oh, and by the way Ted, you and your BFFs Rush and O'Reilly are officially ASS-HOLES!!
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ted-nugent-calls-obama-voters-pimps-whores-and-welfare-brats-20121107
Note: Pimps, Whores, Welfare Brats can be substituted as lyrics for that Cher classic, Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves. Now get that song out of your head!!
Wow, if all else fails, go for censorship, right, doin a whatever?
What's the matter, can't take an opposing view?
We shan't miss you.
Joe in Albany - you're dishonest to the core. Yesterday's stock market was a direct result of what is happening in Europe and had little or nothing to do with the election. Let me guess - if a volcano erupts - it's Obama's fault, right?
Minorities are going to be voting more and more as each election comes.
Gallup and Raz polling outfits are a part of the past, just like Newt Gingrich and Huckabee and Lieberman and McCain and Limbaugh and O'Reilly and yes, even Karl Rove, who has been a poison on our Nation.
Nate Silver and PPP are in.
President Obama as our president has changed more in our nation than anyone realizes. The young people of today are democrats for a reason.
He inspires and will continue to inspire people to vote Democrat.
It really is a new nation since his election in 2008. You don't see it at first, but it's there. Our whole way of doing campaigns has changed.
By our president standing by our workers and women and The DREAM Act, by insisting on health care legislation and on and on and on -
We are a new nation. He was the right president at the right time and as the older ones quietly fade away, a new generation is growing up with him as their inspiration as they begin their adult lives.
doin a doubletake,
Good, take your dumb down America crowd with you, and don't let the door hit you in your a$$ on the way out.
Looks like my post #1.1 is having it's intended effect: popping the lefty liberal cartoon thought balloon of stupidity. A balloon full of Barry's wonderful hot air speeches.
Thanks to all the regular FR lefty liberals. And just for you, David: It's a somewhat cool day here, so I will have to give the grill about half a Sam's more time to warm up before I put on the fillet and garlic butter drenched AK sockeye salmon.
Life is good. Enjoy.
The stock market has lost this much multiple times during the last 8 years - it is NOT a vote of no confidence in our President, Joe, it is a direct result of what is happening in Europe. You are so completely dishonest it is piiful!
The stupidity here Joe is all yours. The market has a direct effect on my business so I watch it daily. The losses yesterday were in no way related to our President's election. If you believe it was, then YOU are the totally stupid idiot!
doubletake, I hope all the RWNJs take your advice and leave with you. You guys add nothing. The critical thinking few that are not Democrats are welcome to stay, but I encourage you to take your ball and go home. BTW, Faux 'news' does not even allow comments, so you may have to go to stormfront.org or some other neo-Nazi site to find a friendly environment in which to dwell.
doin a doubletake,
As I said yesterday, good riddance.
You have the same "Woe is Me" attitude as Brianb. You're either him or his twin.
Or--and this is a distinct possibility--you're a Liberal having us on. The possibility that someone with your views actually exists is so remote as to be unbelievable. It's like finding out that there's a real dinosaur roaming around in Yosemite.
Albanian Idiot,
You're a FRAUD. We all know it. Why don't you follow doubletake's advice. We won't miss you.
An opposing view is welcome, but when I post anything all I get from the liberal crowd here is belittling and gloating.
I even had 1 lib offer to send me a bullet after I commented that suicide rates will rise because of the downturn of the economy.
Jack..that's fine...I'm staying in Purpleville, Florida anyway. We get warm weather year round, South Beach, Key West, Disney, Universal, Spring Training baseball, and excitingly close and complex elections. LOL!
(Joe in Albany...interested in your thoughts on my post #1.27 as a fellow conservative).
What was the DOW at when Obama took office? 7,000-ish?
What is the DOW today? 13,000-ish?
yes - clearly wall street hates Obama.
LOL! You people are clowns.
Frank "Grimey" Grimes, Springfield, USA
You're a Democrat, Grimey, just like the rest of us reasonable people. I don't know why you can't accept it. Maybe the Democrats around you don't look like you, I don't know, I've never been to Florida. But you surely would be a Democrat if you lived in Maine (the Republicans up here either hunt bunny rabbits or aspire to dine with the Bushes.)
This article is worth wading into the toxic fumes of the Wing-Nut-O-Sphere:
http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/04/george-will-predicts-321-217-romney-landslide/
Global warming denier and ABC pundit George Will predicted that Romney would win in a landslide. Do you think making a stupid prediction that turned out to be laughably wrong might hurt Will's career? Nope. That's how thing might work in the real world, but not in the punditocracy, which is basically the antonym of "meritocracy." Will has been bloviating for years on ABC's Sunday morning news show, and I'm sure ABC will continue to bless us with his words of wisdom for many years to come.
But just imagine if Romney had won despite the long odds that Nate Silver gave him. George Will would have been among the first out attacking Silver for liberal bias. It will be interesting to see if Will, or Scarborough, or the other pundits who attacked Silver will at least apologize to him. I wonder what Silver would give for the odds of THAT happening. Probably "slim to none".
Hi Amy!!
Florida is a very very interesting place politically. In the South, you have a lot of people who basically follow their interstates. Southeast Florida is primarily transplants from the Northeast. Southwest Florida is primarily transplants from the Midwest. And Northern Florida is really a lot like Georgia, Alabama, etc. The liberals down in Southeast Florida tend to be pretty far to the left. The Republicans are a bit more moderate. This however switches when you go to northern Florida, where the Republicans tend to be pretty far right and the Democrats much more moderate. That's why our elections tend to be so close...we are a melting pot for sure.
jack in portsmouth
My views?...You have no idea what my views are because you do nothing but antagonize people into a defensive stance
Houston -- Seems George Will and Bill in Fairfax have much in common. Both live in an alternative universe.
IT WAS A MANDATE
Despite claims to the contrary by all the Republican naysayers, apologists, and deniers there is no rational way to say the 2012 elections were not a validation of the values and policies of the Democratic party.
Gains in the House of Representatives (for either side) are more difficult to realize due to the redistricting that took place in many states.
In statewide elections (were every vote counts equally) Democrats were the clear winners:
-President Obama was re-elected by a wide electoral margin and a comfortable popular vote margin.
-Despite havng 23 seats to defend while Republicans only had 10, Democrats picked up two Senate seats.
-Marriage Equality passed in at least two states, while outlawing same-sex marriage lost in one.
In addition exit polls showed over 60% of voters nationwide agree with the Democratic approach to tax reform.
The elections results show a clear mandate for President Obama to finish what he started - rebuld the economy, continue to add new jobs, and ensure tax rates are fair and financial institutions are kept in check.
While there is also a demand for bipartisan solutions to major problems, Republicans need to accept the fact that their approach to governance was rejected at a state and national level, and they need to agree to compromise on some issues in order to move the country forward.
doin a doubletake - you're related to Joe in Albany, aren't you? The media is NOT the reason Mitt lost. Mitt and the entire Republican party are the reason he lost. You are out of date and out of touch. Republicans will lose more and more voters until you begin to catch up with the times.
If you don't like this site - don't come here. It's pretty damned easy!
Mitch McConnell's no-class attack on Obama immediately after the election was pretty amazing. McConnell basically said that the voters were punishing Obama for failing to get the job done he was elected to do in his first four years by making him serve another term. The twisted rationalizations of a bitter old man. Too bad McConnell will be around for another four years to obstruct progress. Now that he's failed to achieve his goal of making Obama a one-term president, it appears likely that he will his scorched-earth tactics in the Senate just out of spite.
Stock Market is up this morning .... hmmmm? Who to blame?
From #1.30:
You're irreverent man except it.
__________________________________
Mo-ron: Speaking of low information lefty liberals: You might want to sign up for the next ESL course at your local high school. It didn't help Bev much, but, maybe you are a bit more intelligent than Bev.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mike-416-
Goodbye, Mike.
This is a No Troll Zone now.
Salud
...or as Jake Carney would say "The President is not responsible". So I can assume that if the stock market rises it will because the Europeans have put their house in order and will have nothing to do with the President's policies?
After 4 years is not time to stop claiming all set backs are not his responsibility and that all positive events are the result of his policies? I thought the left was the party of reason?
Didn't seem to stop the Republicans in 2010.
Jack: Finally a smart liberal!! I never thought I would say that!!
I have been saying for years we need to split this country and your proposal is perfect!! Let us conservatives live our lives the way we want and you live yours the way you want. I can handle the mosquitoes just fine and, living in Florida, we do okay. Don't worry about us conservatives handling the obese people - most of them are liberals anyway and will move to one of your states anyway as soon as the switch is made. Since they don't work they won't be able to buy their "munchies" in a conservative state because we don't believe in giving leeches and freeloaders money - they will have to go to California for that.
But I am shocked that a liberal would propose splitting the country because liberals cannot survive without conservatives? Because conservatives work for their income and if all the "workers" leave who will pay for all your liberal programs? You really didn't think THAT one through did you?
But I am all for splitting the country and is, quite seriously, something that we need to consider. Our system is broken and every election 50% of the people are upset while the other 50% are happy and STILL nothing gets done in government.
So let's split the country. Let conservatives run a conservative country and let liberals run a liberal country. However, one thing we DO know is liberalism always fails. Just look at the states that are strongly liberal and their financial and economic conditions: California, Michigan, Illinois, and NJ (before Christie). Now look at the states that are mostly conservative and THEIR financial and economic conditions: Texas, Montana, Tennessee, South Carolina, and NJ (after Christie).
The liberal "country" would collapse within 10 years without conservatives but if you want to split the country into a conservative and liberal countries I am certainly on board with that.
Since Obama has won re-election I have felt like a great burden has been lifted. I honestly thought there was a chance America was going to regress and take a step backwards. I am glad to know that didn't happen.
I truly do see hope in the upcoming future, but I hope that our conservatives friends do too. The Democrats don't always have it right. Hopefully they come back to center so National Politics can become a discussion again. Since the "Anyone but Obama" initiative is off the table this term, maybe they will let go of their America and start working on our America.
One can only hope.
And just for those of you who keep commenting on the stock market being up from when Obama took office.
It has NOTHING to do with Obama. You have no clue how the stock market works because if you did you'd be whining about the 1% who are making a KILLING in the market right now
The market is fueled by greed and speculation, not the economy
Jack == I love your story. When we take Wa. there will still be those on the East side of the hill. I can live with that , their not bad people.
Stock Market is up this morning .... hmmmm? Who to blame?
_________________________________
Just google the term "dead cat bounce" and you will find your answer.
I'm glad Obama won. The next 4 years are going to be hell even if Romney won thanks to Obama's failed economic policies. I'd rather have the people see things fail under our socialist leader so that liberalism can finally die. Of course, I feel sorry for the poor GOP fella who inherits this mess in 2016.
To Joe in Albany; You're absolutely right. People need to temper their response to this election with a little more "moderation."
Obama only won the popular vote by two (2) percentage points, or less than three (3) million votes.
To put that in perspective, there are eight (8) million people living in the city of New York, which has five "burroughs" Obama won this election by a little more than the populationof one (1) New York City burrough.
That is certainly not a mandate in a national election, no matter how you try to "spin" it.
Furthermore, it goes to show how divided we are as a nation, even after four years of governance by someone who ran their first Presidential campaign on "hope and change."
But, I do have to say this much; I remember Florida in 2000, when the margin of "victory" for Bush was something like 536 votes. There was much resistance to any sort of recount, even though state law mandates it.
There's something like a 50,000 vote margin between Obama and Romney, at this point. State officials are refusing to call the election for Obama, and they are still counting votes, the first time, two days later.
I wonder why Al Gore didn't get that same courtesy in 2000? (....just a little food for thought)
Lastly, I did not support Barrack Obama in the last two election cycles, because I didn't (and still don't) think he was/is the best Democrat available for the Presidency. There are others who are (even after his first term) more eminently qualified to hold the position of the Presidency, and tackle the problems that face this country. What's more, he did nothing in his first term to solve the country's economic woes. That for me, was the big issue.
Also, I still think the Benghazi situation should be investigated by congress, and I believe that most liberals would be screaming from the rooftops about it, if it was George Bush or any other Republican in office when that happened. There are too many unanswered questions, and too much has been swept under the carpet. Perhaps now that the election is over, someone will look into it.
However, (even though, I resigned my membership from The Democratic Party specifically because of Obama) I was (and still am) a big supporter of President Clinton, and Hillary, our Secretary of State. I remember the eight (8) year temper tantrum that the Republicans threw when he was in office, and I refuse to act as they did. There were a lot of issues at stake in this election, mostly having to do with the financial "health" of the United States and its people. For as absolutely uninformed, and downright stupidly as the electorate behaved, they chose Obama for another four (4) years and we all have to live with it.
So good luck to Mr Obama. This time around whatever mess he "inherits" is his own. He has nobody else to blame. He has four (4) years to turn things around, and get this country back into good economic standing. Four years to put people back to work for good wages, and four years to repair the social divide that he created by advocating hate and contempt for wealthy and successful people.
Let's see what he does.
Its funny, the common theme for Republicans over the last 4 years was "Blame Bush". When some of them make their insults they never look in the mirror to see that they are hypocrites. Never in their minds can they grasp the idea that if "Blaming Bush" is a bad approach, how is "Blaming Obama" any better? Even if when you get in to the details it makes much more sense to blame one than the other.
Joe is a fitting example today. He will look at the stock markets behavior between today and tomorrow and make an economic consensus on our president. It is not that he is too stupid, or ignorant to simply click that 5 year button. He just really doesnt want to.
Can someone explain why Jesse Jackson Jr was re-elected? For those who don't know the story, he is under FBI investigation for using campaign funds to furnish his house.
He has also been treated for both DRUG addiction and BI-POLAR disorder within the last 12 months.
He has also been accused of paying Rod Blago (who is in prison) for the empty senate seat vacated by Barrack Obama.
So, can someone tell me what this scumbag did to deserve another term?
This is why voting "Straight Ticket" is ignorant...
Oh, and congrats to our President on running a great campaign and winning election!
Stock Market had nothing to do with Europe's woes?
____________________________________
Joe in Albany - "Europe's woes" have been hanging over the stock market's for several years now...
Of course the stock market is having some trepidation because of the Greek economy. Their parliament just passed another austerity cut, one that they probably can't afford (cuts too deep). Yes another part of it is because the Big banks and hedge fund managers know that with an Obama win that there is a good chance that their tax rates are going up. They wanted certainty. Well the ACA health care reform will stand, that is a certainty. Wall street reform will stand, that is a certainty. Much to their chagrin tax rates will increase on those making over $250 K, that is a certainty.
I see the slight fall yesterday as a temper tantrum by the 1% but they will get over the election and go back to what they do best try to make money. The stock market will recover and continue to grow if responsible folks on both sides talk and address the fiscal cliff. I suggest now is a time to address the possibility of bringing back Simpson Bowles and use as a starting point.
Obama 4 more years
Yes, Life is good. For once I agree with you as does my avatar.
Frank,
Thanks for the explanation of Florida's political divisions. Your diversity makes my head spin. It occurs to me, that when Paul Ryan said an Obama presidency would be a threat to our Judeo Christian traditions, his rhetoric must have sounded "normal" to you, given the conservative Christian climate down there, but to this northeastern Protestant it was enraging. We don't use religious rhetoric like that up here, so, perhaps some of this red/blue divide is simply cultural.
Frank,
I totally agree with your post. The Republicans look at the success they have in some House races, where extreme Republicans win in heavily Republican-drawn districts, and ignore their repeated losses at the state and national level (at least in Dem-leaning or swing states). Republicans repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot by nominating the most extreme candidates in the primaries who then lose to a moderate Democrat in the election.
Moderate Republicans are becoming a dying breed, being replaced by Tea Party extremists. I think Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and the rest of the Fox News bunch feeds in this approach. As this election shows, Tea Party darlings like Paul Ryan have views that are too extreme to win national elections.
If this trend continues, who in the current group of Tea Party House Republicans can be expected to win Senate seats or the Presidency? The Republican party can hold on to a majority in the House for severa lyears, but nationally may becoome a marginalized party.
@Grimey
I don't dismiss the Tea Party message as long as stays on economics. The biggest lie of this campaign was Joe Biden's that he and Barack Obama will protect Medicare. This is economically impossible simply by raising taxes on the wealthy. The MSM made a great deal of the TPC's analysis of Romney's tax plan, however, I did not see the same level of detail of the President's proposals.
I do agree with you that the Republicans have give up on their social policy. If you are the party of small government that should be economically and socially. I also cannot stand the Democrats divisive politics of group identification.
I have discovered that I am actually a libertarian as I support the social policies of the left, including legalizing pot, but I am huge believer in you can't spend what you don't have, and politicians have over promised (bought) voters and will not be able to deliver.
BTW On the President's mandate. He barely got a majority of the popular vote. Gary Johnson received over 1 million votes as well.
doubletake,
First, your views are on display for all to see. They are not the thoughts of a rational, contemplative person. Your post at #1.39 reminds me of a crazed person wearing a straightjacket, flailing in room that has been cushioned to protect you from hurting yourself.
Second, you wrote the below, not me:
The notion that you and your friends could "close these forums down" is . . . well, idiotic. Those of us on the left, as well as independents and rational Republicans, would find it very peaceful to conduct discussions where we could agree to disagree. We would be thrilled if you and your ilk went away and never returned.
Joe in Albany-1902257...........serious questions:
Do you believe most of those on your side who, for the past several weeks, were predicting a Romney win (some, even a landslide) actually believed it?
Many democrats, despite polls and the assurances of professional odds-makers, were anxious about the outcome. We were not taking anything for granted.
Also, what is your take on Limbaugh's blog where he laments that our economy is likely now to rapidly improve and Obama will get the credit ?
You are correct...news out of Europe is what caused market drop yesterday AM, not the re-election news
However, what scares me about the news out of Europe, is they are seeing first hand what socialized policies lead to...the EU is falling apart because of their policies. Look at Greece. We can not allow the US to go down the same path. At some point, entitlement programs are going to have to be reigned in somewhat and we as a nation will need to address our growing national debt and soon.
I believe I read a report that said by 2020, if we continue at the current rate, 50% of our national debt will be in interest....this is a very scary thought..and I fear what it means for our kids and grand kids.
Congrats to those who voted for the President...my candidate did not win but I really would like to see some cooperation in Washington from both sides because we have to do something about our rising debt together.
We cannot simply keep handing out money....sometimes I feel as if the government acts like a teenager with a credit card having not limit....Govt is not spending their spending their money, they are spending the tax payers money.
Alan we both know thats a joke LOL. If its good O did it, if its bad someone else was to blame.
Well Happy upcoming Vets day to my veteran friends and Happy birthday to my Marine Friends. Thanks guys for your service. Lets remember our fallen comrades as well.
It is fair to say that Obama is the least skilled and least effective American president since Jimmy Carter, but he is far more menacing. His every instinct is toward the central planning of the economy and the federal regulation of private behavior. He has no interest in protecting American government employees in harm’s way in Libya, and he never admits he has been wrong about anything. Though he took an oath to uphold the Constitution, he treats it as a mere guideline, whose grand principles intended to guarantee personal liberty and a diffusion of power can be twisted and compromised to suit his purposes. He rejects the most fundamental of American values -- that our rights come from our Creator, and not from the government. His rejection of that leads him to an expansive view of the federal government, which permits it, and thus him, to right any wrong, to regulate any behavior and to tax any event, whether authorized by the Constitution or not, and to subordinate the individual to the state at every turn.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/11/08/four-more-years-what-is-going-on-here/#ixzz2Be2iWXpj
For some the bitterness and nonsensical fantasizing goes on unabated...
Descending into "crazy old man" territory, with dire predictions and musings of secession and civil war.
Democracy means that the majority rules, but the majority is constantly shifting. Accept the results of the election, stop with the sour grapes, and make a case for what you believe, and why that is the best policy for the nation to adopt.
We have always been divided on policy, even at the very beginning of our nation. To believe that this situation is new or represents anything other than the fact that there is more than one way to achieve a goal is naive.
It is easy to be a critic, harder to offer a positive alternative....
-Joe In Albany-
Go with Silver Salmon, or even better, Chinook Salmon.
Sockeye Salmon are the low end of the salmon family.
Sockeye are best smoked over alderwood.
Just saying.
Joe, actually stock market futures were heading for a flat open until Mario Draghi made comments about the German economy slowing and not insulated from the Euro crisis. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good whine.
I am an independent voter
I voted for Reagan and Bush twice.
In 2008 I voted for Obama.
I was watching Jon Huntsman ........... but
This year the GOP went so far over to the right.
And Mitt Romney kept lying.
I voted to re-elect Obama.
"doin"
What you posted is that you DEMAND that any forum be shut down that does not reflect your viewpoint. I feel very sorry for you, because that is what dictatorships do.
Is that REALLY what you believe? If so, perhaps you should leave this forum. We like to have open discussions, including with emotionally stable and literate conservatives.
Ian Emdee
Many democrats, despite polls and the assurances of professional odds-makers, were anxious about the outcome. We were not taking anything for granted.
Do you realize you had every right to be VERY ANXIOUS?...And why?
Because Romney lost Colorado, Virginia, Ohio, and Florida by less than 374, 000 votes...and that total keeps coming down as Florida finishes counting their absentee and provisional ballots
Those wins would have given Romney more than the 270 EV's needed and we would be congratulating President Romney instead of Obama
Pro-Business said:
So let's split the country. Let conservatives run a conservative country and let liberals run a liberal country. However, one thing we DO know is liberalism always fails. Just look at the states that are strongly liberal and their financial and economic conditions: California, Michigan, Illinois, and NJ (before Christie). Now look at the states that are mostly conservative and THEIR financial and economic conditions: Texas, Montana, Tennessee, South Carolina, and NJ (after Christie).
Massachusetts has the second highest surplus savings of any state (second to Texas), and without the oil fields. So you can take your generalizations and stick 'em where they belong (where Mitt Romney is hiding).
Marco Rubio, or maybe one of the 30 (yes 30) Republican governors.
My own view is Albany Joe is a guy who dreams big and talks bigger; I've known a fair share of them and recognize the symptoms. I don't believe most of what he claims about himself; same with Snookie No Joe and Spanky. I know very successful people; they never spend time telling everyone else how successful they are least of all do so on a political blog. Only wannabee braggarts and pretenders do that.
Grimey, you have my deepest sympathy--to a certain extent. I certainly appreciate your frustration. Where you and other moderates who do not like the direction their party has taken lose me is on this simple notion which I have stated numerous times: if you keep voting for someone just because there's an "R" by their name even when you don't agree with them, you deserve the party you get and you get the party you deserve.
Mitt Romney is a changeling and a liar the likes of which I have never seen before in politics. To claim he really was less extreme and became extreme because of the TP is only half true. For one thing, who voted for the Tea Party whack-a-dos to begin with; who elected these ultra conservatives? It was republicans and independents who lean right because there was an "R" after their name. Mitt Romney is a liar who earned the designated term of flip/flopper. He didn't flip flop because of the Tea nuts, he has been flip flopping since 1994; he flip flopped to be whatever a voter wanted him to be. Mitt Romney has no idea who he is period; he has never known what he believes ideologically because his goal has always been to win not on his merits but just to win.
sirie - I don't live in Jesse Jackson's congressional district so I don't really know why he was voted back in. Howeve, he is being treated for bi-polar disorder (not drug addiction). He has been ACCUSED of what you indicate but not convicted of anything. The two men who ran against him are really unknowns so that may be why he was re-elected. I guess his area decided until he is actually convicted of wrongdoing - he's innocent until proven guilty - kind of the American way - ya know?
bob-902090 - you assessment of President Obama is what we expect from a Republican whose party is so far behind the time it is pathetic. Nothing you've posted even resembles reality - except in your mind. You're whining because a tax cheat and a fraud didn't win is totally in keeping with the party that selected them to run in the first place.
Obama's plan is? Not one person on this vine can tell me! He simply does not have one. Can't blame George Bush anymore, even though Obama's 4 years were much worse. Enslaved the hispanic vote got the racist black vote again, even though blacks did worse then ANY group in America under Obama. Smart are they not. Fiesty and Bevs Ill. has a filibuster proof majority of Democrats. Lets see how they do in the next 4 years. Chicago public schools are 1 BILLION in debt and the states STOLEN union pension fund is getting ready to eclipse 100 BILLION in debt. This is just the start of what you IDIOTS wanted. GOOD LUCK! How soon till you think Government Motors go's belly up. 2 to 3 years tops. Then who will Obama balme?
Alan,
There was a substantial amount of redistricting in 2011 based on the 2010 census. The Republicans basically swept the 2010 elections, winning a substantial number of house seats and several governorships. This allowed them to legally control the redistricting process and solidify their gains for a few years.
Jody, I've said it before and I'll say it again. I've been trying to get everyone of you involved for over two years. If you haven't gone to www.faircampaignreform.us yet and gotten involved in the Popular Amendment Movement, why not? This is the ONLY way that the American citizens can ever take back the power of our electoral system. Congress will never do anything that will get past the current activist conservative SCOTUS to correct the problem. It is time to take the implied method that our founding fathers gave us, per James Wilson: http://www.usconstitution.net/constam.html
It was upon this basis that I and a group of other Newsvine posters developed these two amendment proposals in July/august 2010 when we saw what Citizens United was leading to in the Congressional and state-wide races. I then paid to host the website for promoting the Popular Amendment Movement effort. Keeping the website running is my contribution to the cause, since I live in the US Virgin Islands where we have NO vote for president,NO representation in the Senate, and NO VOTE on the floor of the House (only a vote in whatever committee(s) our Delegate to Congress can be assigned to.) Yet our entire governance is determined by Congress through the Organic Act. We are basically second class citizens in the US territories. I lost my voice in government when I chose to move from OH to St. Croix in 1995 (for better weather.) PAM is a totally grassroots organization. We do not solicit any contributions and we have no formal organization. The website is the basic "organization." Download the petitions below from the site, sign them, circulate them among family, friends, neighbors, and co-workers. Email to everyone you know. Help form a local grassroots movement to collect the signatures and petitions, then work with other communities to form county/regional groups and a state-wide movement. Check with your Secretary of State to determine how many valid signatures would be required for YOUR state to call for the constitutional convention that would be required to pass these amendments. BE SURE TO MAKE COPIES OF EVERY PETITION AND HAVE THEM "DATE STAMPED" when you file the original petitions so that you have a record of what signatures were filed and when. That is your protection to make sure that your Secretary of State can't deny you your rights under the Constitution. OFA and all other grassroots groups should have been assisting in this effort for the past two years. It is not too late to get this done before the 2014/16 election cycle. As others have said, don't just sit back and do nothing. Stay involved. Bug the h3!! out of your senators and representative. Contact the WH on a regular basis. Send emails to every member of Congress on a regular basis and let them know how you feel about the issues. I do that because I have no real representation in Congress as a resident of the USVI.
Petition for US Constitutional Amendment For Election Reform
We, the undersigned US citizens, duly registered voters in our respective states/territories, do hereby petition for our state to approve the following amendment to the United States Constitution by the method noted below.
Election Reform:
1. Abolish the Electoral College (Repeal Amendment 12)
2. ONE NATIONAL primary date to be held on the Tuesday eight (8) weeks prior to the General Election day for Congressional offices and for the President. Candidate petitions must be filed with the local/state elections boards 60 days prior to the Primary Election date. Federal election petitions shall be uniform in every state and shall include a “contract with the voters” that spells out clearly what that candidate stands for on all issues that they may have to address in elected office. They shall be held accountable in court for breach of that contract if elected and any/all terms are not met.
3. NO campaigning allowed for any elective federal office more than 60 days prior to the National Primary Date.
4. NO campaign contribution shall be donated to any candidate of more than $200 from an individual or $500 maximum from a family (spouses/children living in the same household.) No donations shall be made to a candidate more than sixty days prior to the primary date. No candidate shall contribute from their own funds more than 60% of the total donations from other private individuals.
5. NO campaign contribution from any PAC, corporation, union, non-profit organization, special interest group, etc. shall be allowed for any elected federal office.
6. NO third party campaigning (separate PAC ads, corporate ads, etc.) for/against any candidate shall be allowed at any time during or before the election season.
7. NO party conventions shall be held to select the presidential candidates. The selection must be done at the ballot box in the primary election.
8. The One Man/One Vote Supreme Court ruling shall be enforced by this Amendment, namely that NO federal candidate selection shall be by any means other than the ballot box on Primary/General Election Dates.
9. National Party Organizations shall NOT raise money for or donate to specific candidates of their party prior to the dates outlined above.
10. PAC’s shall NOT be granted tax-exempt status by the IRS, and any non-profit organization who uses their funding for political purposes shall lose their tax-exempt status.
11. All lobbyists shall be outlawed from influencing Congress at all times.
This amendment shall be approved ONLY by State Constitutional Conventions to be called within 90 days of this petition being submmitted to a state’s Secretary of State. A minimum of 25% of the registered voters in each state shall be required to further this petition to the respective Secretary of State.
Name Signature State Address
Petition for US Constitutional Amendment For Congressional Term Limits
We, the undersigned US citizens, duly registered voters in our respective states/territories, do hereby petition for our state to approve the following amendment to the United States Constitution by the method noted below.
Term Limits for Congress:
1. Representatives to Congress shall serve no more than two two-year terms in the House.
2. Senators shall be elected to no more than two six year terms in the Senate.
3. No elected official shall serve more than six terms in office in any combined elected offices (House/Senate/Presidency.)
This amendment shall be approved ONLY by State Constitutional Conventions to be called within 90 days of this petition being submmitted to a state’s Secretary of State. A minimum of 25% of the registered voters in each state shall be required to further this petition to the respective Secretary of State.
Name Signature State Address
The only "annual earnings" demographic Odumbo won was $50,000.00 and under. Looks like Romney's 47% remark was dead on. Freeloaders voting for Santa.
Good luck with that handouters. My money is being moved offshore as I write except what I put in tax free bonds. Your all-powerful POS potus can't touch it. Several friends are doing the same. We'll support America when the moron is out and a real American is put in.
Balance That !
You do realize that the majority of the top 10 welfare states are red right?
I know more republicans that are welfare recipients than democrats for the record. The one would complain about government freebies whilst he took his 4 year old to state funded pre-school. Another collects welfare for his 3 children and their unwed mother and refuses to work. News flash genius - there are bums on both sides.
Thanks Seeking! I did read that he also was in rehab for drug addiction, i'll go find the story. I also read that he had his house on the market and that the FBI made him take it off, as it contains the evidence needed to prosecute him.
Kind of crazy that a guy like that gets re-elected, isn't it?
Joe HAHAHA
Well, you ya gonna believe? The NBC financial reporter, or HAHAHA. Up to the reader to decide?
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/stocks-open-higher-after-post-election-drop-1C6892846
I wouldn't rule out the notion that the drop was due to some extent to the election. Spoiled rich brats threw a tantrum because they lost every single penny of the hundreds of millions of dollars they sunk into Karl Rove's super PAC. They pulled their money out of the market, but it's only temporary. Their greed will draw them back into the market after a while.
Sadly, Wall Street gets no electoral votes. The US Constitution gives corporate raiders and plutocrats only one vote each, just like everyone else, although I'm sure that HAHAHA thinks it's a gross injustice that the votes aren't weighted according to net worth. Life just ain't fair.
"Change happens from the bottom up."
Much of nothing gets done without leadership at the top.
The people have spoken. Will republicans now try to work with the democrats to help the nations people? I seriously doubt it. Republicanism demands total loyalty to a narrow, and to the minds(sic) of It's members, grand delusion, conjured and bandied by the minds of, (sorry about this), mostly a pack of gwaddamned fools. Course, our national mess is ultimately the fault of the people who elected these greed soaked, limp brained, mental dwarfs to represent an angry, ignorant, religious and all around intolerant gang of "moon howlers". We all heard the "Ohio drunk", Mr. Boehner's missive yesterday. What does it mean? It really means He can't do a gwaddamn thing with His Asylum escapee's. We all heard the pitiful mutterings of McConnell too. He is one of the moon howlers, and so howled, more difficult though, since His lower lip condition continues It's odd stretch, and thereby contributes mightly to his inability in attaining coherent speech. These republicans hate and fear each other so much, their collective focus will never be wasted on matters relative to national affairs. Their capacity is limited to illusions, delusions, and recycled bullsh^t.
doubletake: "Friday, I will sign off and delete my account and never return."
Just when I thought this week couldn't get any better!
Seriously, though - what's with all the conservative posters here taking their footballs and going home? The day after the infamous "shellacking" in 2010, every liberal poster on here not only showed up, but we doubled down on our efforts to not let the same thing happen to President Obama. We heard the wake-up call loud and strong, and as exhausted and dispirited as we all were, we took a few deep breaths, realized the sun had come up that day anyway, and made an effort to figure out where we should go from there. Heck, as I recall, Joe the Albanian even served up a mock menu for us consisting entirely of assorted appetizers, entrees, and desserts made entirely of crow, and several of us gamely recovered our sense of humor and willingly played along.
Look, I know better than a lot of people how tough losses can be, but come on - this is seriously NOT the end of the world. I very much appreciate the Republicans who have come here the last few days and offered their gracious congratulations, and I hope they'll stick around so we can all start in again on passionately arguing the 2016 race (though hopefully not for at least another week or so, okay?)
But they've been few and far between. For those who are NOT the trolls now scurrying off to find another forum to spew their venom, I would suggest just taking a brief time-out to relax, look around, and take note of the fact that even though President Obama won, the sun still rose in the east today, you've got the chance to re-think and re-build your party and come back stronger, America is still the greatest country in the world, we libs are still here to be mocked, and there really is no coming apocalypse.
Well, maybe that Mayan thing, of course.....that's still on for next month, isn't it? Come on, if we're all gonna die anyway, than let's at least relax and enjoy the time we've got left!
Yes those old folks on SS are such freeloaders. Dolt.
And are you really saying people who make less than $50K a year are freeloaders? How clueless can you be?
"Once more unto the breach dear friends...once more..." Shakespeare
Go, go, go, Mr. President! We're behind you 10000000% And how about another shout out for Nate Silver? You da man!
Folks I don't want to see any of you here tomorrow or over the weekend. You need to take this three day weekend and grab some well-deserved R&R because next week we have to go at it again even harder than before.
1. Expect a Spanish Language version of FOX NEWS within the next six months. I guarantee it is already in the works.
2. If we could get the President to re-instate the FAIRNESS DOCTRINE in broadcasting we could get all the "propaganda-poising-as-news-and-entertainment". Sadly that would include MSNBC, but that would be worth the sacrifice to get FOX and Limbaugh off the air and prevent them creating Spanish language versions of their hate broadcasts.
3. The Affordable Health Care act needs to be expanded.
4. The Citizens United decisions need to be undone.
5. We need a graduated tax under which the rich will pay their FAIR share. Close those loop-holes.
6. We need to stop corporate welfare.
7. We need to stop the pork barrel politics.
8. We need to put America back to work and the way to do that is to create a WPA-style infrastructure program to rebuild America's crumbling roads and bridges.
9. We need to close the corporate loop-holes and tax breaks that send American jobs overseas.
10. We need to end the War on Women, Labor Unions/Collective Bargaining, Gays and the Hispanic Community and bring equality to all Americans.
As you can see we've got a full plate, so rest up. There is still a lot of work to do.
Think Progress! Be aggressively PROGRESSIVE!
It is fair to say that Obama is the least skilled and least effective American president since Jimmy Carter, but he is far more menacing. His every instinct is toward the central planning of the economy and the federal regulation of private behavior. He has no interest in protecting American government employees in harm’s way in Libya, and he never admits he has been wrong about anything. Though he took an oath to uphold the Constitution, he treats it as a mere guideline, whose grand principles intended to guarantee personal liberty and a diffusion of power can be twisted and compromised to suit his purposes. He rejects the most fundamental of American values -- that our rights come from our Creator, and not from the government. His rejection of that leads him to an expansive view of the federal government, which permits it, and thus him, to right any wrong, to regulate any behavior and to tax any event, whether authorized by the Constitution or not, and to subordinate the individual to the state at every turn.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/11/08/four-more-years-what-is-going-on-here/#ixzz2Be2iWXpj
E-Deboo - I hope both parties work together now - for the good of the counry. I think this was a real wake-up call for the Republican extremists. There was an article I read this morning about Karl Rove and how his nasty tactics did NOTHING for Republicans. They spent millions of dollars to no avail. Hopefully this helps everyone learn.
And, Boehner softened his stance - somewhat - yesterday. Maybe the top boys are getting the idea we're all tired of their games.
newdayDawning
I've seen literally hundreds of posts from liberals here asking for everyone to help ban, or collapse, or delete a conservative post or poster
What is that called???...Is that not a dictatorship?
Here is the story on Jesse Jackson Jr. drug addiction Seeking, and it is actually heresay, so could be right, could be wrong:
http://patdollard.com/2012/07/jesse-jackson-jr-condition-more-serious-than-thought-appears-to-be-drug-addiction/
at any rate, thanks for the information - another Chicago politician that believes the laws are for other people, not for them!
Currently we have 1500 Cook County PUBLIC officials serving jail/prison time.
1500
WOW!!
There will be a day when the crazy people who believe that Obama is a Nazi Muslim will look back on his presidency and realize they were so wrong. They will understand that they were tricked into voting for a non-christian. They will watch President Obama campaign and help elect the next democratic leaders in a way Clinton has done. 4 years from now we will have created 12 million jobs and our deficit will be shrinking. 4 years from now I hope that our energy independence will be driven by renewable energy jobs and science.
Double d, That's fantastic news- please never come back- no one is fooled by your pathetic lies. The stock market, by the way is fueled by Fear and Greed. You are just so out of touch- do you think Evolution is a lie from the pit of hell? Do you think there is global warming? Do you think 47% of the population are just parasites? You say we don't know your views- well your comments offer a window into that dark mind. Enough with the lies- we've been dealing with trolls like you for 4 years. Go get a job and stop whining.
Alan and others:
GW Bush won both of his elections by a much smaller margin than President Obama, but immediately claimed he had a mandate and "political capital" to spend. In this polarized age where several states on both sides would respectively elect anyone with a 'D' or 'R' after their names an almost complete sweep of the 'swing states' IS a mandate.
Alan -
Very few of the 30 Republican governors are Tea Party Republicans. Do you really believe that Scott Walker (WI) or John Kasich (OH), who are not even hard-core Tea Party guys, would win a national election?
Marco Rubio may be an exception to the rule. He is not exactly an extreme Tea Party Republican when it comes to immigration reform and some social issues, so he may have a chance someday.
america...the B status nation... good luck with that...
Bob: you and your fellow conspirators have posted this rot for the last four years.
Does it occur to you that all it does is make you look crazy, and adds nothing to the serious discussions of the issues of the day?
Our rights come from the Constitution. That document that you on the right keep bastardizing.
Get help.
Skip in Oklahoma....you have to be on welfare or on the take from the gov't somehow....you sound like the ones that voted this idiot back into office. You cannot see what is going on nor do you care to see that we are headed down the path of insolvency....I for one - being ready to retire - and was going to open a small business and hire people have decided since tuesday night...that I will take every bit of that saved money and invest in precious metals and hide all my money in the mattress until this country wakes up and gets rid of the socialist behavior and comes to their senses......GO TO WORK people and stop riding the gravy train that we the tax payers are funding for you....Maybe it is is time for the Real "Boston Tea Party" to come back and pay a visit - Remember what the forefathers said....." No taxation without representation" and we are represented from the WHite House by a group that wants to get their hands into our pockets and take what we have worked so hard all these years for and pass it out the dam deadbeats that want to sit on their butts eating twinkies and watching the price is right.
Give me a break you bunch of socialists loosers.
Jack in Portsmouth and Pro Business - Both of you are wrong. Perhaps not a fitting analogy but perhaps you can look to Lincoln's 2nd address to see that after that truly divisive four years we need to work together after these last four years.
Both of you might need to see Lincoln coming out this week.
"With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan—to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves, and with all nations."
Seriously, though - what's with all the conservative posters here taking their footballs and going home?
Open question:
Is damage123 now jimmycarterthesecond?
jimmycarterthesecond - you're a blithering idiot. First, why put people making $50,000 or less down - they're working. Second, Democrats have more people who are 1%ers than Republicans do you idiot.
Many of us make more than $50,000 and support the President because he was sooooo much better than Romney. Republicans have become a party of backwardness. They want no movement forward for people; the country; ideas; nothing. The party is in it's death throes and you don't have the sense to realize it!
sirie - I think the "drug addiction" accusation for Jackson was before his family released the news about his having bi-polar disorder. Even your story says "appears" to be drug addiction. They thought a mental illness would terrify people.
Now sirie, he hasn't been convicted of anything yet.
@Bob, you lost.
As ineffective as you think Obama is, Romney and the Republican party is even less effective.
Obama has said nothing about expanding government, in fact, government has shrunk under Obama.
Republicans better figure out how to get more diversity under their tent, starting with Hispanics and immigration reform. Your 72% white vote will be 70% next time and 68% after that.
From my viewpoint, Republicans are on the ropes with no course correction in sight. Go ahead, and double down on Romney not being "conservative enough". See what that garners in 2016.
It is now Obama's misery for all of us to endure.. There will be no change in Washington, just the same old Tax and Spend policies that BOTH parties got us into this mess in the first place. A terrible president that got us into the wars and now a terrible president that could care less about America, the debt and has no real leadership. I guess Congress will have to get in the back of the bus like his first term.
I see 20+ Trillion of debt now in the forecast within 3 - 4 years. There is nothing to stop this train, now. Debt will consume this Country. We can't pay for the interest from here on out. The deficits are too large for GDP to produce enough money to pay for them. Interest rates will rise and we as a country will fall. It will not care what race we are, our sexual preference, our gender, global warming, health care, whether we like guns, Democrat, Republican, or abortion.
So keep blaming Bush, Republicans, The Rich, Tea Party, Koch Bothers, Romney and Conservatives because they have everything to do with this crisis and the Democrats have NO Blame or responsibility in creating this Debt because the Democrats are just that good.
_____________________________________
Since I am not a Republican (I've been a small "c" conservative, not enrolled in any party since I was old enough to vote), I never swallowed the kool-aid from either side. This race was very close and either side could have won it.
Limbaugh is an entertainer and I have never paid any attention to what he says. Same with entertainers like Bill Maher. (BTW, the only time I even hear/see Rush is when I'm watching the MSDNC prime time Stooges comedy shows and they play a clip from Rush's radio show)
Alan, NJ
Has anyone explained to you the difference between long-term trends and short-term fluctuations. The stock market goes up and down depending on which side of the bed Angela Merkel gets out of in the morning. The long term trend that saw the DJA double in the past four years just MIGHT have more to do with Obama's policies guiding the economy out of the economic abyss George Bush left it in.
A little revisionist history there, don't you think? I don't recall one single post here praising the president for any single day's increase in the stock market. In fact, some liberal economists even blame him in part for the sluggish recovery because he didn't push hard enough for more stimulus or because he didn't exercise enough oversight of the banking industry in making home loans, impeding the recovery of the housing market (Paul Krugman). The world is a complicated place, and there are many factors that contribute to the state of the economy.
@jimmycarterthesecond
Handouts.............
1. The Latinos want the Dream Act
2. Muslims want that freedom of religion
America is becoming a very diverse country that CHANGE is something you
should get use to.
3. The handout I want as an American
is for people to begin again to respect the office of President.
President Obama
Yes yes..... gloat on. But my how short are memories
I seem to recall after the 2008 routing of the republicans, the left leaning pols, pundits and populace predicting the death of conservatism, and that the republicans would not bounce back in many decades. Instead - it was 2 years. The republican routing of Dems in 2010 also did not mean an end to liberalism, though many a conservative predicted it.
In the last two years, the republicans, like the Dems, did not learn from history. They still let damaged candidates run in winnable districts (I miss the witch - less mean but equally ridiculous). They spent two years with their eyes off the ball.
Oddly, they really weren't punished much. But they weren't rewarded either.
They never learn - and we never seem to get it.
So I guess we've put the fighting fish back in the bowl together, and said - either work it out or finish it.
I think they will finish each other off - meaning we are headed over the fiscal cliff.
The long term debt issues are to severe to left un-dealt with. Yet they can not deal with them.. So be it. Taxes will go up - FOR EVERYBODY. Cuts will bleed.
Maybe then (and perhaps only then), the two sides can learn to work together.
Well we have midterms coming up in 2014....if Obamination and his right hand Bi-dumb get nothing done and things get worse ..then the vote will change again as it did in 2010...and then when the Republicans have the Senate and the House....Obama can sit and do nothing they will STOP him at every avenue...until he leaves and a new president takes office that will work for the country and not for their personal ideals of making this another european socialists society....see how that has worked out for them so far accross the big pond....
Skip - Point 10. Obama's constituents do not want to work. They want Obama Bucks or an Obama Phone. Check it out on You Tube. Look how he ran for President. Not helping Small Buisness. But helping the laziest America has to offer, or in other words Democrats.
Joe,
Well good thing that SCOTUS hasn't ruled that "Stocks are people too, my friends" and their "votes of confidence" are pretty much moot. The citizens of YOUR country, seem to be quite confident in their elected leader.
And by the way, the market fluctuates. Even if the European crisis has been looming over them for a while, that doesn't mean every day they've come in at the same levels, until BAM, Obama got reelected. They've had both good and bad days, throughout the Euro Crisis.
Right, because 51% of America is a bunch of lazy handout takers? Get a clue, man. Go read a book or something (those papery things you buy at Barnes and Noble - I suggest you look under the history or philosophy section).
Red states new country called Jezusland.
Considering I'm neither blue nor red, let me say.
You are wrong sir, Texas has the best hospitals, the best technology, the most military, the very best of almost everything in the country so y'all go ahead and leave.
BUT you must remember when y'all NEED us, we'll probably be there for you because.... AS Southerners we have the most manners, and we always help a neighbor in need, as I recall when the west coast was burning it was OUR firefighters that came to help, we loaned YOU our husbands, brothers, sons, daughters, sisters, and wives. WE loaned YOU our bombers to help put out the fires.
But y'all go ahead live on your fruits and nuts, we'll keep our meat, our corn, and all the other things those so called "slave states" have to offer.
We're quite happy with UT, A&M, Vanderbilt, Rice, Rhodes, etc....
Y'all enjoy your 5.00 a gallon gas, we'll enjoy it at 2.00 or less once we get rid of you.
You can have all our illegals too, and since we have all the guns good luck defending yourselves.
You think? And how well did GWB's mandate translate into private accounts for SS? What mandate issue did GWB get through before 9/11? His first tax cut? Obama got Obamacare.
The country is divided almost exactly 50-50.
Having said that I still don't know what Obama's 2nd term agenda is. He didn't campaign on it. His campaign was basically I'm not Bush and Romney is Bush. So why does he need a mandate? He's not going to do anything.
1stSG,
They also have the best BBQ.
Well, you ya gonna believe? The NBC financial reporter, or HAHAHA. Up to the reader to decide?
_____________________________________
Houston: I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you are going to believe the National Barry Channel reporter because they will thell lefty liberals what they know they will want hear.
In response to the opening statement. Take your states and seperate, but also take your debt with you. In ten years both coasts will bankrupt while the middle of America would do something the Dems do not know how to do; they would live within their means, if you do not wish to work then starve (great motivation to work). We will not have Microsoft, but we will stop illegal immigration and thus will save tons of money by not supporting people that we should not be supporting anyways. While you are at it you can take the ACLU, the Black Panthers, Planned Parenthood and all the unions with you, we do not have any use for them and will not support them.
Jack in Portsmouth
Here is to your self enlightened idiocy, you are certainly special because you say so. In itself your comments reflect your limited enlightenment to the point of talking out of your paper @!$%#. To group a large segment of the population into your little liberal definition is reflective of liberals not America. You feel smug in your opinion and remind me of the study completed by the government just six years ago where they discovered incompetent people do not know they are incompetent. You say save the earth and have mahogany and rare wood furniture in your home. You say you do not care for money and then sue your neighbor because you fell on his stairs while you were distributing some kind of save the whale flyer. You attack what you fail to understand and when you get old and are rejected by the children you raised, you will feel sorry for yourself and the people you walked all over. The funny thing is when all that happens you will turn to those same people you have classified as less than worthy of sharing the same air as you and they will do as they have always done accept you and your faults and forgive you. Those will be the people who believe in the things you do not, those will be the people who you wronged, and those will be the people who are still Americans.
Mazz - That's the Democrats plan! Constituency by dependency! How can you see it ant other way? A bribe here GM bailout, food stamps up 17 million, disability claims at record highs, Presidenial Orders, hispanic bribes. etc,etc!
Alan,
Are you on crack. Bush barely won the first election, but won by a landslide the second one. He never claimed any mandate on the first but did on the second when he won by a large margin. Obama had his chance with a mandate and blew it by passing the largest tax hike in American history with Obama Care. He put us 6 trillion dollars more in debt and yet we have nothing to show for it. This president could be facing impeachment yet with his cover-up on the Libyan affair. You thought Watergate was bad, that was just a simple break in and robbery. Obama watched our ambassador get killed who he swore to protect and then covered it up to protect his election.
@geo-i957883
Handouts..........
1. The Latinos want the Dream Act.
2. Peaceful Muslims want that freedom of religion.
American is becoming a very diverse country that CHANGE is something you
should get use to.
They are not lazy. They are your fellow Americans.
doin: "I've seen literally hundreds of posts..."
Really? I have been here an awfully long time, and I haven't.
Does it sometimes happen? Sure. For someone that is spamming the same post (against COH) or making threats or for pure vulgarity.
Does it happen when someone is posting something they wrote that reflects their views, having nothing to do with the above?
No.
Jody:
I don't know how many times I've pointed this out. Truly wealthy people do not feel the need to share their dining habits with others. They have no need to brag about their wealth. To the contrary. The Albanian idiot isn't even a wannabe. Snookie joe? Well, she's out looking for a mink coat and says she won't be back for a while. Spanky? My guess is he's the security guard at a law firm somewhere.
Joanne:
I share your joy. I thought the President's re-election was going to be the only highlight of the week. Now, I find that I truly approve of the action of a right-winger.
Sirie:
I can tell you why Jesse Jackson, Jr. was re-elected. He got the most votes. That's the way it works in this country.
Doubletake:
I have every confidence that your posts will not be collapsed. Indeed, if they are, I promise to re-post the one that urges your fellow mindless trolls to leave. As far as your comment:
No you haven't. That's an outright lie.
ZMan2012
The IS an investigation being conducted by Congres, although it's more of a the witch hunt than a serious investigation.
Uh, in case you forgot, George Bush ignored multiple warnings that a terrorist attack on the US was IMMINENT and got a memo entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike Inside the US" prior to the 9/11 attacks. But he was too busy vacationing and Dick Cheney was too busy plotting the war in Iraq to bother doing anything about it. People should have been screaming from the rooftops over that, but the Republicans did a good job of covering up the extent of Bush's incompetence. There is not one shred of evidence that there were any warnings about an imminent terrorist attack in Benghazi or that anyone in Obama's administration ignored them.
The security experts in the Obama administration who are conducting the REAL investigation seem to have concluded the mistake they made was depending too much on the local Libyan militias for security at the Benghazi consulate. But the GOP witch hunters aren't interested in that. They're searching for evidence of a nonexistent coverup.
Jack in Portsmouth
Dear Blue States –
Unless you are serious, please do not make promises you do not intend to keep – that is just cruel. In the event we are blessed and you mean it, with you will go all illegal aliens, irresponsible, lazy, immoral individuals, gangs, the idiotic and a ton of debt. As to obama and crew – we will happily pack their bags and move them for you if you are unable to do so yourself as we can do better and yes, bill the lecher is going with you – we don’t allow men who think women are around for their entertainment in our midst as our men respect women and know that we, unlike yours, brains. We will be keeping God, values, morals, pride, the desire and ability to take care of ourselves instead of sponging off of others, and prosperity for all those willing to work. We will also be taking many of the wealthy and most of the businesses since we have a business friendly environment where they can grow and expand, increasing the prosperity of our citizens. Some will stay with you but as you will tax most of those out of existence, you’re going to need the pineapples, lettuce, etc. to feed your selves .Here is your hat and coat, there’s the door, what’s your hurry?
Sincerely,
The Responsible States of America
PS –When the pineapples, lettuce, etc. run out and your businesses are extinct, you should be aware that our borders will be secured and we will be allowing our citizens to keep their guns so stay on your side.
Now we know why Chris Mathews was happy. He should not be on TV.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/11/07/chris_matthews_apologizes_for_saying_he_was_glad_for_hurricane_sandy.html
I'll enthusiastically second that! I was in a discussion along these lines just last night.
Don't bother fixing the Rpublican Party, replace it. If the Tea Party and the idealogues want it, they can have it. A good third party, Libertarians, Independants or others have a great opening here. Our country would be better served by multiple parties.
I just got around to reading today's WSJ and they have a Hillarious editorial citing 2012 election news you won't see on MSDNC. It strongly supports my post #1.1 position that there was NO mandate for lefty liberalism in the 2012 election (and probably also explains Anna Molly's absence today). It notes that lefty liberal Wisconsin voters returned control of the state Senate to the Republicans, just months after the Dems recall vote effort failed to oust Scott Walker and gave the Dems a very temporary slight majority in the state Senate. These same voters also reaffirmed the state Assembly's 60 seat Republican majority.
Sorry, AM.
Welcome to our world.
@1SGFitzsWife4ID
I believe the line men who restored power to my house were from Texas, so thank you.
I see the regular idiotic right wingers area again accusing everyone else of not working, etc. Don't you realize that just makes you all look stupid AND desperate?
1SGFITZ- sorry but I have to disagree with you. I grew up in North Carolina and I truly love the state - was really proud when it went Blue in 2008 and it will again soon. But, so many in the south are so afraid of change and so hate-filled when it comes to anyone different. Some great schools - Duke, UNC, etc., which will help NC become a purple state in the future. It won't stay red.
When I was in college my family moved to Illinois and I love it here. Parts of NC I miss. But, the ignorance and hatred of anyone and anything different has to change or the red states are going to be left behind. We'll learn how to do the great BBQ - it's not hard.
My neighbors are good and help each other out. My manners are becoming more the norm in my state. And, sorry but Wisconsin has great corn; beef; and better cheese.
Our firefighters have gone throughout the country to help when needed. Our utility company still has people on the East Coast helping them get their lives back. We're all in this together and we all have to learn to work together.
So, as much as I love my home state - NC - I really love it more that they are becoming more open to change and diversity. It's what will keep it a vibrant and relevant state. Sorry it went red this time but that won't last! We ALL have to pull together and the states that want to stay in the dark ages will miss what everyone else has to offer!
Seeking ---- Its got to be a 2 way street though... and I will openly admit the Republicans will likely need to concede more ground to the Democrats but Harry Reid has to play ball as well. The House sends legislation to the Senate to be approved, not the other way around. The republicans need to send over some real legislation that deals with concerns from both parties and Harry Reid needs to allow it to be debated on the floor. To date BOTH have been obstructionist....not just one of the parties...BOTH are just as guilty. They work for us, not the other way around.
And lets be real....there are extremists on both sides....I hate when people on this board insist all Rebublicans are old white rich fat people....Im not white, I'm only 33, I could stand to lose about 10 lbs and we are not wealthy.
I am not religious, I have social liberal policies, but I am also as small business owner and that is what provides for my family and children and as a business, we have been hurting the past few years. Our insurance premiums have kept rising at 12 to 15% annually...we do have a younger core base of employee's who is getting older, so I do expect some increases but the level they have been in the past few years has been startling. I am a fiscal conservative and my biggest concern is our rising debt.
We are going to have to make some cuts....this happens to all of us. When any of us run up debt, we have to make hard choices and things need to be cut. Stopping these wars would be a good start. Reigning in some of the entitlement programs would help and unfortunately, we all might see our taxes go up a bit. Something has to be done to bring down the 16 Trillion we've spent that we simply don't have.
Enjoy your smug, predictably juvenile gloating, liberal little boys and girls. Reality is, the stock market is down again today, and that's probably the long term trend. As for hiring, forget it. With socialist Barry and his hate for business, energy, and his bankrupting Obamacare, who the hell do you think is going to do any hiring? Quite the opposite, look for big time layoffs....that'll help everybody, huh?
As for the jackass proposing that we split the red/blue states......good idea. We'll take our vast food and energy resources; maybe you can eat some pot, as well as burning some to keep warm.
I hope people realize there is no and never was a fiscal cliff.....even if Obama lets the Bush tax cuts expire for all, he will reinstate the tax cuts for those making $250,000 and lower. Since Reagan, the rich just don't want to pay taxes, period!....for 12 years under Reagan-Bush and then again 12 years under GW Bush and Obama they have avoided taxes. Obama just wants to get back to the Clinton era where the wealthy payed more and the country created jobs and balanced the budget. The republicans tried to impeach him all 8 years simply because he raised the taxes on the rich, not whitewater, not monica,...just taxes period. So nothing to fear at all, rich pay a little more and can't pad their tax free off-shore bank accounts for a little while, cut the military a tad, and see balanced budgets. Life is all well again!
anti-trust proponent, Iowa democrats added to the state party platform language demanding an amendment to the Constitution to overturn Citizens United, etc. I am actively involved in local party politics as a member of the county democratic central committee. We work to educate and inform people of the information you posted as well as others. We worked to ensure that another IA Supreme Court Justice who was part of the decision legalizing gay marriage in Iowa was not thrown out of office by the teanut VandarPlatts crowd. Justice Wiggins retained his seat on the court.
@geo1957883
GM bailout
1. It did save jobs
2. I like American made cars
Nothing changes the country is still divided and will remain that way. the popular vote states that clearly, half of the country thinks socialism is not the direction we need the other thinks that is just grand.
Who wins...no the working man that is doin fairly well making 125K on his own in biz he will pay thru the nose when all the regulation burden finally strikes home with the taxes coming to pay for free health care for the half that are all for the free ride.
No surprise on the election for me, wrote it down it would come this way, this country will have to go to it's knees before it can start BACK. Kinda like a drunk has to hit bottom b4 he can overcome the addiction same with the mentallity that the government can fix all woes....it can't people spin it any way you want. Hard work is the only answer period.
By 2020, the Democratic coalition that elected President Obama will be able to carry Texas for the Democrats...then what????
Hep us Karl Rove, hep us!!!?
I don't know how many times I've pointed this out. Truly wealthy people do not feel the need to share their dining habits with others. They have no need to brag about their wealth. To the contrary. The Albanian idiot isn't even a wannabe.
_________________________________________
David: Jealousy is an ugly emotion. It will eat you up from the inside out.
BTW, I do find your fascination with my posts very entertaining.
LMFAO@U!!!!!!!!!
Joe in Albany-1902257
NBC is not the mirror image of Fox News. They don't report facts and tell lies because they think it will make liberals happy. Unlike Fox's far right viewers, what most liberals "want to hear" is the FACTS.
If the masters of the universe on Wall Street are so smart, then why didn't they dump their stocks before the election rather than after it? If they paid any attention to the objective analyses by people like Nate Silver and Sam Want, they would have known weeks ago that there was a high probability Obama was going to win the election. If they are as inattentive to hard financial data as they are to election data, no wonder they messed up the economy so bad during Bush's term.
Jack in Portsmouth
Maybe if you get to keep all the weed, you can invent a NEW fuel to run your industry and autos without the benefits of OIL that Texas and Oklahoma produce, or get so high that it doesn't matter that you are standing in the cold without shoes, or don't have a running car to buy more munchies that your fuel-starved industries can't produce.
Here we go disagreeing again Sarah, Memphis has the best BBQ. LOL
Bob the national debt is going to be a very big problem. All the manipulation now keeping rates low has the govt paying a rediculous low rate of about 1.6% on the debt which keeps it very manageable now. When/If we get in the 20Trillion range, which i would say is very likely, and rates go back up to normal it is going to start getting uncomfortable for those in DC to pay the bills for the debt. Then what are we going to do to pay for it is the big question.
I left that out Sarah didn't want to rub it in too much ;)
@ David Walker
Sirie:
Yes, I am aware of that David.
Illinois is a blemish to this great nation... the politics here are (probably) unparalleled, the more you are a crook, the more votes you get.
What a mess, and now there is NOTHING to stop Gov Quinn from taking Illinois straight to GREECE...
Oh dear Lord, Joey, for realizzle?
The stock market 'crash' (lmao, 300 pts? on an over 13K balance) I personally believe to be a whiny, foot stomping by the wealthy. If they couldn't BUY this election, well they just cashed out some marbles and 'went' home - to the Cayman's. These @!$%#s would rather PUNISH Americans than work to find adult solutions to BIG problems.
I have a newsflash for the morons you support in your party. The sequestration was AGREED upon by both sides. McConnell and Boehner can't sit on their five yard line and wait for Dems to bring the conversation to them. They are going to have to get off their lazy, lardened asses and move to the table, which is sitting on the 50 yard line or guess what? BOOM goes the dynamite.
You still don't get it. The President has been playing a very sophisticated 'game' and he really IS the smartest man in the room. His organization for America BLEW Karl 'brains' Rove AWAY!
I heard Monday that Republicans were boasting that they had knocked on 75,000 doors in Ohio on Sunday. Guess what? Organizing for America knocked on 375,000 doors in Ohio on Sunday. 500% MORE effective, eh?
While you have been busy deriding the community organizer - guess what? He was out getting his @!$%# DONE! Hard to argue with THOSE results, eh? I mean you still want to rest on your fat laureled ass and boast about YOUR accomplishments? puhhhlleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaase! Spare us your phony partisan angst.
I had thought that 40 years in the political desert would be fine; but, I'll take the hand wringing and teeth gnashing of 70 years. I mean if THAT is how long it takes you nimrods to 'get it', I am all over providing you the time necessary to see it through:
http://www.grassfire.com/share.asp?shareseq=18439
I've tried not to be too terribly smug; but ya' know, you Unicorn riders are the ones who want to believe the very WORST about a man you obviously know nothing about. So suck it. Wander. Makes NO difference to me.
Does anyone on the right have a sense of humor? Sheesh!
Matt just to say a tax rate, up or down, will fix things combined with military cuts is naive. Their is a much bigger part to having deficits and debt ... spending more than you take in. Which each party does. The late 90's was the exception with the Gingrich house and Clinton Presidency having spending/gdp the lowest since the 70's.
The taxes you want to raise aren't only on the "scrooge McDucks" you picture drinking fine wines. There are about a million small businesses that pay those same marginal rates with pass through S Corps and LLC's. Those businesses employ about a quarter of our workforce. To get out of this as a country we have to grow our way out of it. How do people from the federal level induce these businesses to grow by taking another 5% of their money away from them?
@ Dont_carry
Sometimes life is so unbelievable you have to just laugh, or go insane. ;~D
Cannot help laughing at the right-wingers outrage about Jack's #1 post. That post is sarcasm, it's The Onion humor, it's poking a stick at the absurdity of right-wing outrage that President Obama won, it's poking at the right-wingers demand to eliminate aid to the poor when it is the red states that receive blue state money to help the poor. The worst thing about conservatives is they don't even recognize sarcasm when it is clearly in front of them.
Odd, how TX and Gov Perry threatening to secede from the union and other former Confederate state politicians saying similar things were considered okay; odd how Donald Trump demanding revolution after Tuesday's election is perfectly fine with some of them.
It did indeed.
That is certainly true. The America that was a free, sovereign, united nation where the people (yes, white people, after all it was THEIR country) selected the government that worked on their bahalf is gone, but it was not by accident. The white Anglo-Saxon culture just wouldn't buy into the Marxist ideals the subversives were trying to push through the media and government, but the Marxists would not simply go away. They formulated plans for the takeover of America.
The internationalist Marxists who infiltrated the Democrat party worked to change the demographics to more resemble the third world by pushing The Immigration and Nationalization Act of 1965. With decades of conditioning and social re-programming from the media, films, television and college indoctrination, this effort would ensure that as the black and brown demographics grew from immigration and higher birthrates, the white vote would shrink continuously until the day when whites were a voting minority.
That day is today. It is considered a victory by the Marxists. After all, their plan worked. And while it is true that things have improved for black and brown people in America, is America actually better because of it? Is America more stable? More secure? More sustainable? More prosperous? Less violent? Less crime ridden? The answer is a resounding NO.
Multicultural America is one that is in steady and steep decline morally, intellectually and economically. Crime, overpopulation, higher taxes, less freedom and more government intervention into personal lives is here to stay. America will not survive. Without the despised "white" population, their genetics and their partucular characteristics that built this country in the first place, America will take on the characteristics of the populations making up her new demographics and hence, will resemble the many countries that these people emigrated from in the first place.
America will decline and collapse, and the Chinese will rule the world.
BigATC/1stSG,
However, I will put Detroit's Coney Dogs up against EITHER Texas or Memphis BBQ any day.
As far as Joe's propensity for posting about his dining habits, as food consumption is completely irrelevant to knowledge of public policy or anything else discussed on these boards...
Who gives a @!$%#. I drink boxed wine and eat Sponge Bob macaroni and cheese. Doesn't lower my IQ any.
And at the same time the bailout screwed stockholders. You mean American Cars like the Volt that is built at a loss?
THERE'S STILL TIME FOR THE GOP TO TOTALLY SELF DESTRUCT.... THEY'RE NOT QUITE FINISHED YET....As Republicans rebuild their party, keep these things in mind...
1) Keep aligning yourself with big money, corporate interests, and tax favors for those groups.
2) Identify yourself as the party of angry white men. (IS Dick Cheney still alive and available to run?)
3) People LOVE to have their bodies, sex lives, and religious beliefs legislated and debated.
4) Let the TEA Party (and shrill bitches like Sarah Palin, Rush, and Anne Coulter) help select your candidates. Nasty is attractive.
5) Don't release tax returns, insult 50% of the country early on, and pretend everyone has hired help.
6) Keep putting Mitch McConnell and John Boehner on television. Mitch looks like the dog on Beverly Hillbillies, and John's tan reminds us of all the junkets he's taken.
7) Cover up the fact that your hero, Ayn Rand, died on welfare and medicaid by smoking herself to death.
8) Start a couple of unfunded wars and offer some bank bailouts to reward your donors whenever you get into office. Send the bill to the next President so you can blame him. Voters like that...
9) Listen to Karl Rove's political advice and make sure to sign tax pledges with Grover Norquist so that you can't possibly compromise. EVER. In the corporate world, failure to compromise and job performances this bad usually result in consequences like termination or exile. But keep these idiots around anyway.
10) Make sure you put up the weakest possible slate of candidates in the primary and then have them devour each other, slavishly trying to prove who is the nastiest and most out of touch with reality. Voters LOVE nasty. All those millions on negative ads really paid off...
YEP, FOUR MORE YEARS OUGHT TO FINISH THE GOP OFF FOR GOOD....
Democrates: Please admit to your President that you belive his win means that no other persons deserve to live in this country. That because they feel powerful since you, Mr Obama, won, they want to eliminate anyone not a democrate...were talking about lives here
Obama, Do you support your fellow dems call for extinguishing Americans of the GOP? Is this how you planned to start NWO? Why are you not preventing a serious crisis stampeed of democrate-mob-like mentality to extinguish those that are not a follower....its happening right now via digital media, but how long will it stay that way before one of your posters above hurts someone?
Are you telling me that smart, market savvy investors listen only to Fox News, are incapable of finding Nate Silver's blog on the Internet and were totally shocked by the election outcome? So much for the efficient market hypothesis!
Dude, I know it is tough when your guy loses a close election. I do remember 2004. Still smoking crack and making an ass out of yourself on the Internet will not make things any better.
Seeking- I'm originally from Northern California, I've also been stationed in Illinois, I couldn't get away fast enough, hence the reason I moved to Texas, we're red, we'll always BE red. Y'all put together this "list" of how much better your stateS are than us. Sorry, my state can do all that and then some even without the rest of the wonderful states around us. Y'all are always telling us to go ahead and secede, but it looks like Jack is the one who wants to secede now, so y'all go ahead and try.
BigATC- I'll give you that Memphis has the best sloppy BBQ (as in sauce) but Texas has the best BBQ without sauce needed =0)
Alan- you're welcome, I did nothing, but two of my very best friends were there, y'all are fixin or being hit with crap again stay safe.
ROFL I freekin love you!
Jody- Yes Perry says it do you hear any of the rest of us agreeing?
To Frank "Grimey" Grimes,
Regarding your post #1.27, I have had similar thoughts. Though I do not agree with the extreme fringe of the Tea Party, they do have the right idea - use the system to advance your agenda, and they used the system well. Far more efficacious than the Occupy people - protests are fine for building awareness but eventually protest without corresponding action is just noise, and people get tired of noise. You never saw a viable Occupy candidate for any office. You can yell and scream but if you can't get your people where they can really make a difference you fail. That is what separates Tea Party from Occupy. But I digress.....
Here's my humble opinion, offered for FR consideration. I have to agree a large part of Mr. Obama's victory was due both to ground game and social media. These two areas are where We the Moderate Right are the weakest. Realistic Conservative 50-something white guys (hardly pale and stale!) generally are wrapped up in demanding careers and though informed are somewhat politically complacent. Our ground game is weak, if not non-existent, opening the door to extremists. I can not imagine anything that would ever make me participate in a rally, demonstration, protest, or even go knocking on doors. It is almost like nobody knows a responsible, reasonable conservative exists anymore.
And social media? Fuggetaboutit.
How to make the Republican Party vital and relevant? Therein lies the challenge. Ideas?
Unwittingly, some have pointed out the real issues we will face in the coming years:
Joe in Albany with his AK sockeye salmon: Beware of cesium and other radiation in all Pacific fish that has escalated since March of 2011 for some reason: a low level of ingested radioactive substances is probably worse for you than smoking several packs a day. D2 Doin a Doubletake: Looks like you already ate the salmon over at Joe's. But if either of you can afford, without healthcare insurance, the $80,000 per session cost of chemo therapy, you are so rich that you should be out in nature and not cooped up in front of your computer. Don't you know that sitting all day contributes to heart disease? Many people that do everything right still get cancer and heart disease because of all the pollution and radiation around us that wasn't completely contaminating everything until the 1950s nuclear tests and chemical dumping by Monsanto and others into the Great Lakes. Eating your broccoli, garlic, and tomato paste won't help: my husband ate lots of that stuff over the years, but his fast growing colon cancer is probably due to eating fish from polluted sources. The clean-up is staggering, but Japan has been censoring information about Fukushima, and those Pacific fish affect North and South America (especially Alaskan salmon) more than anywhere else. Like it or not, we might have to help Japan with nuclear experts, robots, and clean-up. Of course, our NRC ignored our own threat: similar nuke plant to Fukushima is on the Jersey shore right in the way of floods of salt water from Sandy, and it can't cool those spent fuel rods if there is salt water in the system.
Soul searching? Republicans have slowly gotten rid of their soul. Time to spend an equal amount of millions on helping people recover from disasters. Most of us middle-class people don't hate the rich: we spend time going to museums that hold collections gathered by rich people, and look at some of the rich's contributions in the arts. But this current crop of billionaires do nothing for America or the world. Bill Gates is trying to save Africa at least, but compare that to Adelson and the Koch Brothers: their antics were their own advertising enemy. If they had given that amount to American projects here to build and endow schools, feed the hungry, provide low-income housing, and help with disasters, then people would not have had such a negative feeling towards them.
Example: Wall Street. Occupy wouldn't have happened at all (or would have been only about 3 people total) if the big investment firms on Wall Street had done some foreclosure forgiveness for those who tried to restart mortgage payments. Or if Wall Street, after hiring police as private security guards to beat up protesters, had not put Republicans in power in who cut police collective bargaining and hiring. Police look at that kind of behavior too. Or if, in the middle of the biggest recession since the 1930s, the top execs had deferred their bonuses: after all, they already have a lot more money in the bank. What was done in 2008 to prevent Lehman Brothers from going out of business? Why are investment banks still allowed to be merged with regular commercial banks? This will always cause insider trading, and tear apart those banks. This is one of the top priorities that Republicans and Democrats should be shouting to fix: the banks need the regulations back, to prevent another meltdown.
Global warming: Sure, the rich (despite saying they don't believe in it) have built more ships to go over the arctic in late summer. Sure, they have caused negotiations between the U.S., Canada, Russia, Denmark (that owns Greenland), and a few other countries to "protect" those shipping lanes and oil drilling on their continental shelves (i.e., not go to war with each other). Why do you think that the bottled Rumknee had said that Russia is our number one enemy: this is the new oil fields he will now have time to drill in. In fact, he probably wanted to lose so that he has time to exploit and destroy more land. Meanwhile, the destruction of the arctic ice and glaciers, and the extra dark water, has caused a shift in the jet stream causing extreme drought, not just in the Great Plains of the United States (why the heck did they vote for Robme?), but also Mongolia and other parts of the world. Low food also leads to wars. We will have a lot of international nonsense to deal with, and that nonsense is caused by promotion of fossil fuels and nuclear instead of better, cheaper, and newer technology. No matter how much we lost on Solyndria, that is a drop in the bucket compared to one nuclear project or oil field which the taxpayers pay for up front and then pay for again at the pump.
The best thing we can do is to point out what needs to be done, but some of our freedoms of speech have been taken away by the Patriot Act: Due Process was in place since the Roman era (see the Bible: Acts 25:16), but now it is gone. That is a priority too: please return the rule of law to America.
As for Jack's post: almost funny, but people who are desperate often start wars. The blue states will continue to give Federal welfare to the red states, and the red states will thank the blue states by continuing to buy guns. Whenever a country or region buys lots of armaments, beware, because that may mean they intend to use them. The world learned that lesson before World War I and II. I hope that more sense prevails.
Doubletake: Since FT is not going to be posting, guess today is your last day. That's perfectly fine with me. Just one less poorly informed RWNJ to to educate.
@Joe in Albany-1902257#1.1: Your post is bullsh^t. The market plunge yesterday was in fact, both, a substantative and symbolic gesture of aggravation by the financial community against perceived potential Congressional gridlock relative to the impending fiscal cliff. As the day wore on, statements from McConnell and Boehner didn't help matters at all. Had there not been an election the day before would the market have been down. Likely, but pure speculation. Good business does not fear fair taxation, good regulation, nor general Government oversight, as dimwits like you claim. Fact, American business awaits the accompanying stability of these presently missing connections to Government. There is a fundamental here, people like you continue not to understand. An employed US middle class of substantial earnings and savings power is a tremendously profitable market for Global business. Wallstreet really wishes to see this restored, and restored with systemic long term protections. We will all have this only through the actions of Government. Stability for all. Republicanism is completly ass backward toward this most logical concept.
Never been to Detroit so i will have to make that a bucket list for a coney. Maybe on my skiing sabatacle to the great state of Michigan after Christmas :-) How are you finding AU Sarah?
Spo de o de, Spider, Justiceisnonexistent & Irumani,
In regard to your comments about my "Red States and Blue States" post (which, by the way, if you knew how to read, is not my creation, but was sent to me by a friend):
What you have proved is what I have said many times on this site: A great number of you folks on the Right do not possess a sense of humor. If one of you had been as creative and had written something equally funny in the same vein as that piece, I would have laughed. But not you guys. In your posts you reveal yourselves to be angry, bitter people without even a modest sense of humor.
Jody & DCIA - thanks for trying to point this out. Sheesh! is right!
Yellowdog,
What am I wrong about? You didn't say. . . .
Alan -
GW Bush and the Republicans pushed through their tax cuts, even though most of the country disagreed. Oddly enough, the first Bush tax cut legislation was passed using the same filibuster-avoiding 'Reconciliation' tactic the Republicans complained about when it was used to pass Obamacare. Democrats wanted to bank the surplus for Social Security, etc. - so much for financial responsibility.
No change there since 2000.
If you truly don't know what Obama's agenda is you really haven't been paying attention. His agenda was laid out clearly in several State of the Union speeches, is detailed on his website, and was featured in his 'stump' speeches.
The key parts are corporate tax reform, higher tax rates for the wealthy, decrease military spending, and end the war in Afghanistan. The savings and increased revenues from these proposals will be used to reduce the deficit and invest in infrastructure.
And to the poster who said Bush won in a landslide in 2004, you need to review your facts. Bush won 51% of the popular vote but only 286 electoral votes. Bush's narrow win in Ohio was the tipping point.
BigATC,
This is what you need to do get the full Coney experience. We have a bit of a food war going on here. First, you go eat at Lafayette, then you go have one just about next door at American.
THEN, you vote Lafayette, because while they're both delicious, it is superior.
AU is good. A lot of papers. A LOT of papers. Right now I SHOULD be writing one on the roots of our right to confront our accusers in Mosaic Law, however I CLEARLY have gotten sidetracked.
Albany Joe, with so much success you have in the market it would seem you could vary your diet a little from AK salmon every day...
Slates' interesting take on the Right-wing Republican stages of grief (which are you in today, conservatives?):
In Fox News' election coverage Tuesday night, there was little pretense of fairness or balance. What there was, from the start, was a glum tone that turned downright funereal by the time Mitt Romney finally conceded, near 1 a.m. To watch the network's anchors and guests work through the dawning realization that their candidate was doomed was to witness a textbook case of Elisabeth Kubler-Ross's five stages of grief.
Denial: With the early returns breaking badly for Romney, Karl Rove points to an exit poll suggesting that Democratic turnout was low in Ohio's Cuyahoga County. Everyone basks in the critical importance of Ohio's Cuyahoga County. Anchor Megyn Kelly asks, "Is this just math you do as a Republican to make yourself feel better?" Rove assures her it's real.
Mike Huckabee, meanwhile, is counting on rural voters to turn things around: "I still think Mitt Romney wins when it is all over."
Anger: Shortly before the race is called, Sarah Palin says an Obama victory would be a "catastrophic setback to our economy" and lashes out at the public: "I just cannot believe, though, that the majority of Americans would believe that incurring more debt is good for our economy. … I cannot believe the majority of Americans would believe it's OK not to follow the Constitution and not have a budget."
As midnight nears and reality sinks in, Megyn Kelly takes out her frustration on liberal colleague Susan Estrich: "You, having managed the Michael Dukakis campaign, are familiar with the losing feeling."
Bargaining: With all of the networks calling the race for Obama, including Fox News, Karl Rove pleads for his fellow hosts to un-call Ohio, promising that forthcoming returns in the state will be favorable to Romney.
Kelly, followed by the cameras, heads back through the bowels of the building to grill Fox News' decision desk and see if the network's analysts will change their minds. They won't.
Depression: Ed Henry, reporting stone-faced from Obama headquarters as it erupts in jubiliation: "The crowd is near pandemonium now, despite the fact that unemployment is hovering near 8 percent."
Charles Krauthammer: "As a psychiatrist, I will offer to write prescriptions for anyone who needs them right now."
Acceptance: Still waiting on this one.
I think Albany Joe is still in the first stage of denial. He thinks eating his grilled salmon will make everything a LOSER feels go away...........
@ Joe in Albany-1902257 post 1.1
Here we go already blaming the President. The Stock Market was predicted to take a dip no matter who was elected. It happens after ever election. Maybe after yesterday you will start seeing the pattern.
1SGTFitz- sorry but I've been to Texas and couldn't leave fast enough. I'll take Illinois any day! And, NC BBQ beats the H*ll of out Texas BBQ any day! :-)
Joe in Albany-1902257
Well, the US stock markets have cast their vote on the prospect of another four years of Barry. And yesterday’s losses say they think four more years of Barry sucks.
Hey JOe,
DOW closed on 11/7/12 at 12,932.81
DOW closed on 11/5/08 at 9,616.60 (the day after 2008 election)
DOW closed on 11/3/04 at 10,137.05 (the day after 2004 election)
DOW closed on 11/8/00 at 10,907.06 (the dayafter 2000 election)
so what exactly are you bitching about???
Mac, what business and investors fear is uncertainty. Myself included. They have no idea what cap gains will be in 2013. I have heard 20, 25 and 30 from the prez. The presidents proposal on dividends would take the top rate from 15 to 43.3%. Thats a huge deal. I have sold my stocks (all dividends) because of this. I passed on a 15% stake in a group buying out a retiring franchise owner because i have no idea what rates will be. Or, a bigger factor, how to figure compliance costs (extra lawyers, accountants and red tape) with Obamacare as his business is just over the 50 employee threshhold. Businesses under 50 do not have to comply with Obamacare. I'm a small fish in a small pond and i am making big decisions (for me) because i have no idea what the environment will be 90 days from now.
FYI - These figures come from Obama's own White House Budget projections - link below;
National Debt as of the end of fiscal 2008 (Bush's last year) = $9.986 Trillion.
National Debt at the end of fiscal 2016 (Obama's last year) = $20.391 Trillion.
By the way - this includes Obama's 'assumption' that he gets his tax increases on the 'rich'. If that doesn't happen, the Debt will be higher.
I find it ironic that the young people who provided Obama with his margin of victory are the very same ones that will 'inherit' this unsustainable Debt burden, and have to pay for it - with interest.
I guess you might call that 'Retribution'. LOL
Here's the link - See Table 7.1;
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals
By the way - For those who are unfamiliar with Economics, the amount of interest payments on the Debt will have to be paid with higher taxes on everyone - Under Bush, it averaged slightly under $200 Billion per year, but if the interest rates return to the average under Clinton of 4.7%, the interest payments alone will skyrocket to almost $1 Trillion per year by 2016 (Almost $10 Trillion over 10 years – for interest alone). That money will effective come out of the pockets of American families and go into the pockets of 'Investors' – largely foreigners like the Chinese, thus decreasing economic growth/job creation substantially. We are on the same path as Greece.
it doesn't matter if your dem or repub they are both steering to a one world government to distribute americas wealth to the rest of the third world to make us all equal and that is what we need to focus on but they keep us fighting between ourselves wake up people we need to drop the two party system and become one to keep America on top if you want to give your money to the poor it should be your decision not govs and tax the wealthy more and see how much charity giving drops, people its just common sense
And wasn't it convenient that he let drop that immigration reform was on the agenda, from an interview that was "off the record". I didn't hear that until the last week of the election.
SO, when will get the TPC analysis of Obama's economic agenda? I'm still waiting to hear how increasing taxes on the rich by 80B will pay for Medicare and reduce the deficit.
With all the talk about the stock market being down, this is normal. Throughout history the market has been down in the days following a presidential election. Furthermore, if one looks at the history of the stock market, one discovers that there are more bull markets during Democrat presidencies and more bear markets during Republican presidencies. No one seems to be able to pinpoint why but it seems to work out that way. Could it be that the Republicans aren't as estute with investing or handling things that affect money matters as people are led to believe?
Sarah & 1st SG Wife
I'd put my KC BBQ up against anything Texas has ANY day! just sayin'!
Mosaic law? You mean as in Hebrew law from the Moses time frame? WOW. That is interesting and at the same time would make my head hurt on how to get started on that. Glad i'm out of college :-)
roadlesstraveled
Dude get yourself to the nearest Narcotics Anonymous meeting
TNSEVOL: The 2004 election went to Kerry in Ohio, but was certified to Bush. After the election (and Supreme Court anointing of king Bush), a careful analysis of votes at every polling place in Ohio revealed that the machines had been hacked. How could there be more votes for Bush in polling places that had fewer registered voters in total at those places? A careful recount of votes that were actually tallied and available (other than those "glitches" in the machines) revealed that Kerry won, but that recount took months. The Supreme Court never recanted: those justices that still certified Bush from 2004 to 2008 should have been impeached for not reversing the election and inaugurating Kerry.
But people wanted to go on with life, business as usual, nothing to rock the boat, and ditch Kerry despite the fact that he was the actual winner. The result has been that Democrats in Ohio have been very careful to try to investigate and protect every vote. This time we only had billboards intimidating voters, and six hour lines on election day. Now we learn that Ohio Secretary of State Husted threw away provisional ballots from Nov. 6th without a court review, although it didn't matter, because the election was nowhere near a tie.
Republican antics in Ohio in 2004 have all but handed the state to Democrats, because Ohio is an independent thinking swing state that doesn't want its right to think for itself taken away by hackers.
So, ATC, it really matters to you whether you receive a net of 80%, 75%, or 70%? Instead, you'll give it ALL up.
William Buffett doesn't care, but hey, what does he know?
DCIA:
Ummmmm...have you MET me!? LOL!
Ok Phu Obama is been reelected , you don't need to lie anymore, we know that the negative campaign and character assassination campaign is a success, so the for the next presidential campaign we will lower the bar a little more until we lose our civility , thanks to David Axelrod and Tiffany Carter and Harry Reid who call Romney tax cheater, and murderer , what will be next.
That isn't surprising at all. You live in fact-free universe so it is not at all surprising that you would be shocked to find out that liberals are the ones who shoulder the majority of the tax burden in this country. All the way from the richest to the poorest - in fact, the richest man in the US is an outspoken liberal.
It's rather interesting how in all of the red states and people complaining about how they are being soaked by the lazy masses, there's not a single person who has ever returned his government check. No state's governor has ever turned returned Federal dollars due that state. Never.
The difference between liberals and conservatives is that liberals realize that the infrastructure of the greatest country in the world doesn't come free. Conservatives, on the other hand, demand a free handout - let someone else pay for it.
We love you, Grimey! Seriously. We do. Keep posting!
In relation to something you wrote way up above about Florida: What I always got a kick about when in Florida was trying to find a good radio station while driving north from Stuart to Fort Pierce or other places further north to surf. The stations always seemed to be one of two types: either the preaching of evangelism, or over-the-top smutty discussions between male and female radio hosts whose show consisted of that and nothing else (and I'm not a prude, by any means). One or the other. Nothing in-between. It was weird.
Cannibal, cap gains going from 15 to 20 wouldn't. 30 in this market no i wouldn't play. And i don't give up all i just play in a low risk/low return bond fund.
It's not just one thing its also dividends and marginal rates. Call me funny, but i really would like to know if top marginal rates go up 5%, dividends go up to 43.3% and cap gains go to 30. If so i'm done with stocks and go elsewhere. Until then i sit on the sidelines in my bond fund and eat macaroni and cheese and rasberry sherbert.
Right. Obama's instinct is regulation of private behavior. So that's why he opposes gay marriage and is giving women precise instructions of what they may do with their own bodies.
BigATC,
You are correct. And, hence, I am on Newsvine right now.
Frank "Grimey" - You are always the exception around here! Appreciate your perspective AND humor!
You moderates are a rarity. That needs to change.
Yes. Never mind the fact that Democrats have reduced taxes several times during the last four years. In addition to also reducing the deficits. They are the party of fiscal irresponsibility so none of that has happened. Or could ever happen. Ignore the facts. They don't exist. It's not true.
Reading down to here I see the SAME obamanation clowns running their mouths---well GOOD LUCK because you will GET what you voted for---NO HOPE,NO CHANGE--but plenty of grief-----
THOSE on OUR EAST COAST who voted for the LIAR in our white house are NOW seeing first hand HOW the OBAMANATION ADMIN runs---FEMA pulled out because of what--A STORM---on STANTEN ISL---NO HELP at ALL--in MANY of the OTHER AREAS the same thing---YA ALL VOTED the LIAR in again so NOW LIVE WITH IT--
OH and BTW---YA think that YOU can SCREW OUR MILITARY AGAIN by playing with their VOTES--ALL you did was PISS THEM OFF--THIS in NO ACCISENT---just like LIBYA was NOT about a movie--
Military Absentee Ballots Delivered One Day Late, Would Have Swung Election For Romney
http://www.duffelblog.com/2012/11/military-absentee-ballots-delivered-one-day-late-would-have-swung-election-for-romney/
If you thought that this COWARDLY LIAR --SCREWED us and OUR COUNTRY in his LAST 4--YOU ain't seen nothing yet ! WE are LIVING the END DAYS of AMERICA as we used to know it and it will start with his BULL CTAP TAXES hidden in other things--the MINIONS that VOTED THIS SLIME BAG in again will LIVE to REGRET IT!
YUP add the last $ 6 TRILLION that the SLIME BAG blew to the NEXT FOUR YEARS---$7-10 TRILLION and WE now live in a THIRD WORLD ENVIROMENT--thanks to the LOW LIFES that voted this slime bag in again!
BUT there is a LIGHT at the end---IMPEACH and PUT on TRIAL ALL involved in the LIBYIAN COVER UP and MURDER of OUR CITIZENS---OBAMA,CLINTOON AND ALL THE REST are just as GUILTY of MURDER as if they PULLED the TRIGGER!
Meanwhile on the back NINE and scratching his head: "What Fiscal Cliff" ?
I wonder who Mr. Obama is going to blame for the FAILURES of the past 4 years.
This has to be post grad. They wouldn't do that to regular college folk :-) What class?
Jack in Portsmouth,
Your post #1 sounds prejudice. It read like a silver spoon brat, we're better than you, Alabama sucks, attitude. Isn't that what you say Republicans are, and you say Democrats are for the poor but you state you have most of the wealth.
Keep in mind that even with Silicon Valley revenues, California has more debt than most of the nation. The state is not run very well so I wouldn't be proud to mention Feinstein. In fact all of the states you mentioned have over 110% of the national debt so I don't think your new nation would last long. With all of your handout programs your Utopia would turn into a Soviet collapse. I am glad to see some Democrat bloggers realizing that you need to get a reign on the entitlement programs.
We'll have Republicans who have ideas and know how to spend less and make every buck go farther.
With Houston we'll have a space program again. Your tech center was created because of the race to space. Without a vision and drive you're dead.
Speaking of, we have the death penalty and we're not afraid to use it.
Utah and AZ will stop the water flowing to CA so drink your wine while you can, we have Jack and Coke.
We have all the wheat and barley to make the beer and cereal.
We have Big Sky and Texas cattle.
We'll have the people who know how to converse and have fun, not just sit and look at a smartphone.
You can sheer all the llamas you want, we have King Cotton.
And you can eat all the California ecoli lettuce you want. We have the CDC -- good luck with your meds.
Anyway, as long as we have NASCAR and the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders I'm fine with it.
Here's an article with a different opinion on the cause of the stock market drop yesterday. Joe HAHAHA probably won't like this one, either.
http://buzz.money.cnn.com/2012/11/07/please-the-stock-drop-is-all-about-obama-opinion/?iid=EL
StoptheCannibals-2908428
Roy, you left out the most important part:
The Ryan budget, over the next ten years, already passed by the House, creates BIGGER DEFICITS than President Obama's does. The Ryan budget doesn't call for any surpluses for 3 DECADES!
Roy, we call usually count on you giving the proper statistics, unfortunately, you never give us the WHOLE TRUTH.
What stage of grief are you in today, Roy?
BigATC,
Yes, it's an MS/JD degree, with a focus in Justice and Public Policy, and the class is Constitutional Law in Criminal Procedure. I also have to write one on labor law and unions in the criminal justice system AND the effect of transfer laws on general deterrence of juveniles, for my other two classes.
It's a laugh riot.
Recalling that category gives me great hope after the recent failure of the badly misnamed supercommittee to reach an agreement on a deficit reduction deal after four months of meetings and partisan wrangling. The only thing the committee could agree on was a short statement issued at the group’s legislative deadline that said they had given up: “We end this process united in our belief that the nation’s fiscal crisis must be addressed.”
Although united in that belief, they failed to produce the $1.2 trillion in cuts needed to avoid sequestration — automatic cuts that will be triggered in January 2013 if there is no budget deal by then. Committee members failed to “go big” by aiming for $4 trillion in cuts, as they were encouraged to do by the White House and others. They failed to agree on a balanced package of long-term spending cuts and tax increases to begin bringing the deficit down. They failed to agree on short-term measures to boost the economy. They failed even to clarify the issues or suggest new areas of common ground that could pave the way for a deal down the road.
And now they are poised for success. How? On Jan. 1, 2013, sequestration kicks in, making $1.2 trillion in predetermined budget cuts with half coming from the Defense Department and none from Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare benefits. Those Pentagon cuts, when combined with other reductions agreed to earlier, would reduce military spending by about $1 trillion over the next decade.
Defense Secretary Leon Panetta has called such reductions a doomsday scenario. Of course, DOD officials and outside experts say it is just the beginning of a prolonged fight over which items to cut. On that same date, the George W. Bush-era tax cuts also expire, producing almost $4 trillion in additional revenue. If you count reduced interest payments, some Medicare cuts and the expiration of stimulus programs, the nation’s fiscal picture will improve by about $7.1 trillion in the next 10 years, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. That is beyond “going big.” It is far more than anything the supercommittee, President Barack Obama or House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) ever considered proposing.
What is needed for this rather balanced and progressive package of budget reductions and revenue enhancements to take place? Nothing. Congress simply needs to do nothing for the next few years. With a presidential election coming and Republicans eyeing the possibility of taking control of the Senate, that seems quite doable. In fact, it’s what our government does best these days.
Call me an optimist, but I think we have them right where we want them.
Funny that Joe in Albany believes the U.S. Stock market has casted their own vote for the election. I think he's right! The Stock Market is reacting to the majority Do-Nothing Congress being elected back into the House by the right wing idiots! Despite of their incredbily record breaking low approval rating in the past 2 years, the redneck state idiots are putting them back into office to keep reaping tax payers' hard earned money and doing absolutely nothing!!! The Stock Market is telling america that this is INSANE!!!
I love the happiness for 8% unemployment and the millions new people on welfare.
Americans choose the path of continued high unemployment, large numbers of welfare and food stamp recepients and a Medicare going broke in about 5 years.
If for some reason you think this is false, wouldn't those three numbers at some point in the last 4 years started to go down?
At no point can we continue down the path we are headed down and not EXPECT everybody to be paying higher taxes, there is talk of spending more on education, roads and bridges, light rail and green energy.
Ending the war in Afgan, curring defense by 30% and taxing the rich at 45% isn't going to cover what we spend now, how is that going to cover spending more?
I asked my 95 year old granma what she thought of Medicare going broke in 5 years and she said it was impossible because there will be people that need it.
I say good luck to all!
Clara,
Lived in KC for three years. They can't even get in the game with Texas BBQ.
Seeking, Glad you left and are still Seeking. Been to Chicago. Too cold.
Sara, Texas BBQ great choice!
As for all the other adolecent bickering. Like it or not we have Obama and since the polls show us basically split right down the middle on votes and issues we had better figure out how to compromise. On BOTH sides!!! As for me, I am going to try and figure out how I am going to so without that $350 a month I will lose to taxes first. Then we will see.
I'm in a union but no experience in the criminal justice system, other than taking a breath-o-lyser (i passed). LOL I could go get arrested in a union capacity if you want a real life case study :-) I do know that i can tell my employer, federal govt, that he is scum and numerous other bad things to his face and can't get in trouble as long as i say it from a union perspective. Haha
Cannot help laughing at the right-wingers outrage about Jack's #1 post. That post is sarcasm, it's The Onion humor,
_________________________________________
Jody: Thanks for outing the source of Jack-off's post. I did not comment on it because it was about 75-100 points above Jack-off's IQ of +/- 50.
BTW, Jody: Is The Onion the new go-to source of information for lefty liberals, replacing thinkprogress.org?? If so, it's a step toward "progress" of the lefty liberal mind.
Yeah... I'd say they do...
But that is a two-way street Noid. The Democrats in Congress (specifically the Senate) were just as 'obstructionist' as any republicans.
If you are being honest you will have to admit that to be a true statement.
TX - My family tax rate on 1/1/13 goes from 15 to 28, my SS rate goes up 2%, and We lose $1000 to the child tax credit. which is right around 8K.
about $700 a month, can you say recession?
If you think bond funds will do better than stocks, over the long term, I've got some swamp land I'd love to sell you.
Listen to Buffett for a minute. Over the long run, The US stock market is the best investment in the world. That's why every foreigner wants American stocks. That's why US Treasuries are selling at 0% interest. If you don't want to make money (because it'll cost you 50 more basis points), that's your choice, and you deserve what you get.
Houston!
Here's an article with a different opinion on the cause of the stock market drop yesterday. Joe HAHAHA probably won't like this one, either.
____________________________________
Houston: Citing another lefty liberal MSM network like the Clinton News Network doesn't make a lie the truth.
What's next??
A story that supports your position from The Onion, the new lefty liberal go-to source of information??
Just for you, because I know how much you love it:
I'm LMFAO@U!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4 more years of lies, handouts, cover ups, huge debt and blaming others. Policies that will never work even with bipartisanship. I am not Republican. I am an American citizen who has enough common sense to see that this country is going down a slope that will lead to our demise. Half this country has been living off the hard work of others. Why would they want to actually go out and do something for themselves when they are handed everything. Half this country works hard and has to pay for those who refuse to help themselves and then get penalized for being successful. Too many bleeding hearts and too many who feel that we should help those who really don't need help just a crutch. Enough coddling of adults who made a decision to lay around and do nothing. Go do work and help this country.
Is it the Kool aid or the quality of the blinders that makes people stupid? I guess if you can't see where you are going and you are high enough it really doesn't matter, the worst is yet to come, Obama is going to hurt you, he and his secret agenda, the dream we know nothing about, its just a matter of time and everything as you know it! will be history, just remember as you look in the mirror who put us where we are. do the math things can't work.
My opinion on the stock market going down.
Mitt took his money out and sent it to his island account.
Who? You mean retired members of the greatest generation and veterans? Yes, and 99% of this country has been living securely under the cloak of defense the 1% in our armed forces upholds.
What else would like for them to go out and do? Most of them have already either saved the world from the greatest evil it has ever known, or saved YOUR ass from terrorists.
http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/
That whopping 4.1% on government assistance??? How dare we feed poor people, right? We're the richest nation on the earth, we should NOT be taking care of the least among us.
And you do realize, that even if we cut EVERY assistance program to poor people, you'd STILL be paying the same amount of taxes. They'd just be going to bomb kids, instead of feeding them, and you don't seem to have much respect for the service members anyway, since you disparage them, as they belong to the "half of the country" you're bitching about.
Guess you're screwed.
Elizabeth,
Nice post, however:
What you and those like you either refuse to or just do not understand is this: The welfare you claim to "give" the red states is for the "blue" people that live here and that WE TOO help pay for. The BIG joke here on election day was that Obama would be leading the race until the rest of us got off work and had time to vote. You are not the only one with a job.
Jack @1.0........love your post...I only wish it would come true. Just think of the good football - SEC. Alabama #1 again, probably gonna win the championship again. We probably won't be broadcasting to the ESA - sorry. We do have the most beautiful beaches. The obese peeps are gonna want to relocate to the ESA, big business will want to come to a more friendly atmosphere. We will not have Obamacare. Much better weather. Friendly people. I can go on and on, but please do me a favor and ramrod this suggestion. The south would LOVE it. Let us know how it's going!!
Have a GREAT DAY!!!
Cannibal, exactly where did i say bond funds will out perform stocks? You interpret me saying i'm sitting on the sidelines in a bond fund as bonds out performing stocks? Huh?
I know Buffett philosophy and was 100% invested for many years and did pretty well. One has to look at retirement timeframes also with that stratedgy and start to divest some as i am.
Treasuries are at virtually no return, actually negative with inflation, because everybody and their brother, including foreigners, are piling into them as a safe haven. People aren't piling into stocks.
TxHorsman -- Funny, those so called "blue" voters keep voting red. LOL
concernedamerica
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration"
Abraham Lincoln
Houston! you wrote:
I'm glad to see you admit the economy was messed up by the finance district not Bush Jr.
In case you weren't paying attention the market has been going down since the 3rd debate when popular opinion put Obama ahead.
And gas prices have come down since that same debate when Romney got Obama to say oil drilling permits are up over Bush's term. Co-winkie-dink.
maybe we do need to split up our nation.....one of freeloaders and the bleeding hearts who voted with them and the other a nation of independent mature citizens....one thing for sure...obama's ass in on the line now...he better get his shiat together...if he fecks up for another for years there might even be some libs turning on him....i will never respect obama due to his campaign that relied on character assassination and the smearing of a good man.....obama's campaign was vile but it fit the low-life scumbag of a president.....no surrender...
They made the comment the other night on the out come of the election that what we are seeing is the changing face of a nation. There is nothing that can change that now. The whites came and took over everything. Just as our time passed their time is coming now when they will fade into the background as well. Already the world as i knew it has changed. The country i knew is gone. So many changes in the last twenty years that i thought i would never see. Do i like it? No. No more than anyone else. White republicans had just as well face it. Just as the people of the past were out numbered soon you will be as well. I am not republican or democrat. I try to listen to both sides and decided from there. America is not the America my Grandparents,parents or i knew and grew up with. The simple days when you could be care free and not worry much about the future are gone. America and not because of Obama,is now entering the second stage of hell.
Kristian113 said "half this country has been living off the hard work of others"! -- really, half? oh yeah, romney did say 47%. As many fact checkers have already pointed out, this 47% include retirees who'd worked their fingers to the bones when they were able to work, war veterans who risked their lives for the war mongering rich 2% who never served in the army, those injured and disabled from work related causes, and of course, all the U.S. military members and government officials including the GOP majority in Congress and redneck state governors who so happily living off the tax payers' hard earned money in a system called "SOCIALISM".
but it's indeed true that a number of american outside of the above groups do live off from others. I won't deny that some poor americans make it a habit in living on welfare, but they don't rob the middle class as blatantly as the wealthy ones. look at the corporate ceo's and high management! they steal from the hard working middle class by the millions! what do they do to deserve tens and even hundreds of millions annual salaries and bonuses? they hardly do anything but shuffling things around to make it look like they're doing something, meanwhile they think they deserve millions while cutting the salaries and benefits for the lower tier hardworking employees? Look at those who evade taxes. people like GWBush, Cheney, Romney, etc. all have tax shelter investments overseas. These "Patriots" love this country so much that they rather put their $$ outside of this country than to "Create Jobs" in this country while reaping every single benefits they could imagine.
It's simply amazing that the so-called "conservative" brain-damaged rather support the wealthy vampires than the truly needy! simply amazing!
@Big ATC#1.189: Believe you are sincere. While cost implementation of the ACA does cause concern, that concern is mostly exaggerated due to unfamiliarity, and not due to excessive costs, when contrasted with existing group plans carried by those same entities. As with all change of process, resistance exaggerates costs and effort. Participating states are mandated to provide compliance aid at no cost. Actually, ACA is a good deal for these entities, and in fact, once implemented, will yield financial relief greater than the entities realize at present.
Regarding Capital Gains taxes: I am involved much in things Financial, and have been for many years. I contend, that tax should be a minimum of 30%. A 70% profit is quite ample, especially when the added difference of 15% helps bring about that overall stability I spoke of earlier. Yes, many claim such taxes are unfair because the money invested has already been taxed. Such is the sorriest, and most dishonest reasoning I can imagine. If I buy a piece of equipment I write off its cost. I then pay normal taxes on profits less costs that generate the profits. There are no differences here. That argument is nothing more than a hogs lament, and even less genuine. I do agree with your "uncertainty" statement to the extent, business does have concerns about the will of the Congress, especially republicans, to come together with democrats and construct an environment of long term market place stability. Regards
doin a doubletake.......you said:
Most of our anxiety was caused by republican efforts to disenfranchise democrats. We were unsure how successful those efforts would be. Secondarily, we worried that American voters (once again) might be fooled by Romney's blatant (etch-a-sketch) policy reversals and outright lies. Third, there were the huge infusions of cash (much from anonymous and/or foreign sources) assisting Romney.
Fortunately, all your schemes failed. President Obama will have four more years. Now, republicans must choose between cooperation or eternal demographic irrelevance. We offer thanks to God that you will now be unable to diminish our democracy.
BTW----Regarding the size of the margin: Recall how George W. Bush won in 2000. His "victory" was far closer (271 to 266). Furthermore, Bush lost the raw vote count (by over 500,000). So, what's your point? We knew the election would be close. But, as it is sometimes said, "Close only counts in horseshoes and hand-grenades". You lost. That's what matters and that is why the way is now clear for President Obama to go into history as one of the greatest Presidents in the history of the United States.
Sarah From your link,
4.3 million (4.1%) on welfare
46.7 million on foodstamps
5.6 million on unemployment
I could see voting for more of the same if those numbers were going down but they haven't.
Currently close to 50% play no federal income taxes (I know who that all includes, SS, veterns,etc..), when you have half of a group not contributing to something, most if not all the time they will volunteer the half to contribute even more.
G-Man
Obama should let sequestration take in effect, that was his big idea, he signed it, now he is backing up because there is no Bush to blame for his big mistake.
So. After careful consideration WHEN DO YOU LEAVE.
Tom,
The majority of the half "not contributing" have already contributed more than the half currently "contributing".
Second of all, we're coming off of the greatest economic downturn since the great depression. YES, those numbers have gone up, that makes sense. It doesn't mean those numbers will remain up, however. The programs some disparage are also what have kept us out of an even worse economic downturn and long term, lead to a BETTER economy...
http://www.epi.org/press/poverty-measure-highlights-dire-circumstances/
http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/13/news/economy/poverty-government-assistance/index.html
What do you think would have happened if we HADN'T had those programs in place? I'll give you hint, it would look a hell of a lot more like the Great Depression.
Of course there are some that will never be able to climb out of poverty, but they are a tiny percentage...
http://anitra.net/homelessness/columns/anitra/eightmyths.html
And living in the richest nation on the planet, we have no right to attack or let them starve, as they are HUMAN BEINGS also. A little bit of grace, goes a long way.
Mac, didn't the government take in more money when the capital gains were lowered during Clinton? So the quesiton really is, should taxes be imposed as punishment or as the greatest rate of return for both the citizens paying them and the citizens collecting them?
Currently I feel the country would rather use them as punishment then the greatest rate of return for all involvment. Hey i might be wrong.
Yes...we can see how well that joke played out. Actually, it was Mitt Romney leading till later in the evening when the people with jobs got out and voted for Obama. Decisively.
And you are not the only one who pays taxes. Your taxes go to pay for the infrastructure that allows you to live in security and earn a living. Nothing is free. No one owes you a handout. Grow up and stop whining about it.
For the people who are having trouble understanding why the market dropped yesterday:
From http://seekingalpha.com/article/990281-october-s-5-year-high-does-not-bode-well-for-bulls :-
I have to say it some of the poster on the right are just crazy... I thought this would disappear after the election but no still here. I know some post what I would consider nonsense and others just opinions that I disagree with, but I have seen about 13 completely unique alternate realities on this thread alone.
By the way, did any of you hear the rumor that Obama is taking the money from Medicare to build a TOP SECRET intergalactic ship called the deathstar? But don't worry I was told by divine forces that a adolescent named Lucas Skyrunner is gathering a coalition deep in Arkansas to fight of his evil doings.
Um...unemployment is going down. Here's a chart:
http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet?request_action=wh&graph_name=LN_cpsbref3
Unless you're a "The Bureau of Labor Statistics is a liberal conspiracy" nut, this chart pretty much settles the issue.
The Obamacare lay offs have already begun. They will escalate when the new year rolls around and cuts are made because of the increased taxes that the Republicans will cave to. Gas will never be $2.50/gallon, at least for the next 4 years. Food, electricity clothing will all double. Our credit rating will go to B.
These realities will affect those least able to afford it. There will be no safety net because tax revenue will decrease. The poor will be on their own. I'll not feel sorry for them. Most of them deserve it because they asked for it.
The Republicans should not make any deal concerning the "fiscal cliff". Allow the tax inceases across the board. Make everyone have skin in the game. Especially the poor. If tey had any consequences they would not continue to vote for the idiots who promise them cell phones and "free" health care. They might even attempt to become participating members of society and not leeches spitting out crack babies for a check. The Republicans should nt allow it becue no matter what, when it all falls down, the blamer-in-chief and his party of liars will blame the Republicans anyway. And probably George Bush. The Democrats still have not passed a budget. The drones are too busy smoking pot and patting themselves on the back to understand the consequences.
Sooner, rather than later, they will. Poor George.
Mac, my concern about compliance costs is i have no friggin clue what they are going to be. I can't plug numbers into some fancy spread sheet that will give me a reliable expense estimate. Years later they are still making rules for this thing. States provide initial compliance aid but not forever. At some point i gotta pull out the billfold.
The 50 employee rule would effect me. As being just over i would be subject to the fines/taxes. If i have to suspend insurance because its either that or go belly up i gotta pay. Say i have 60 employees and can't afford health insurance ..... i gotta pay a $120,000 fine. Or tax, whatever. My competitor down the street has 45 employees. He is exempt from Obamacare and can run his business without being subject to the fines. That is an blatant competitive disadvantage and am shocked it is written that way. If i was starting any business or franchise from scratch this would definitely make me think long and hard about expanding. I guarentee you nobody that has a clue about business wrote that.
If you want cap gains rates at 30, go back and look up what happened in 1987 when the rate was raised from 20 to 28%. Cap gains revenue was LOWER for the next decade than it was in 1986. It only surpassed 1986 revenue when the Clinton tax CUT for cap gains went into affect 1n 1997. Yes a Clinton tax cut from 28 back to 20%. Revenues rose rapidly.
Akeem,
No, but I DID hear that there's an army of zombie, fetuses gathering in our sewer systems and preparing to take over the country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuwaubian_Nation
I couldn't make that @!$%# up. I'm not creative enough.
Sarah,
Reverse order, "And living in the richest nation on the planet, we have no right to attack or let them starve, as they are HUMAN BEINGS also. A little bit of grace, goes a long way."
We don't live in the richest nation on the planet, remember we are 16 trillion in debt and don't have the ability to make 1 payment to reduce that. We do have lots of people with wealth and loving hearts that give their time and money freely without the threat of being jailed by the Government. So the real question is do we need to he Government to take money from a group of people by force to give to another and keep them poor, or can citizens take it upon them self to help. (I think the Red Cross and many others proves the second point)
We have no idea what would have happened if they weren't in place, we speak of the results. The results are the numbers posted, now some can those numbers are excellent and some can argue they are terrible, either way they are what they are and they have not being go down at all and we were told they would go down way back in the 2011 summer of recovery, correct?
Regardless if you have paid in the past or our a vetern you are now in a group that allowed the Government to continually spend more than it had and are not voting to have something else pick up the bill.
I will say it again, you CAN NOT have more people not contributing then contributing and expect to last.
and that is why I say good luck to all of those people that are expecting full Medicare after 2017 or SS around 2033.
Header - "First Thoughts Back to Work". 1 paragraph on it and the other 3 or 4 a re-hash of Romney and the GOPs loss. About sums it up as to what we can expect, again, for the next 4 years.
Hey liberals, have yourselves a great back slapping session and self contratulatory time, but when the money runs out, it is YOU who will be the starving on the streets wishing for some kind of job skills or any skills at all for that matter.
Byron - We have less people working now then 1,2,3, and 4 years ago, yet the unemployment rates is going down. Care to explain how that happens and its a good thing?
Funny about the Clinton tax cut in 97 ..... as many times as i have heard people bemoan Bush for cutting cap gains 5 points, i have never heard one person bemoan Clinton for cutting it 8. Wonder why that is?
Oh wow Sarah, I can't believe someone out there actually believes that. Also, right after my post Simple Theory makes up yet another alternate reality.
We are just giving up Christmas this year as what is left of the economy is going to tank!
Here and there, among these posts, I hear claims and counter claims whether this vote was a mandate for the President. It, in fact, was. Both parties deemed 9 particular states that would determine the winner and loser of the election. The President won all 9 of 'em. That is a mandate by any honest measure. Arguments to the contrary be damned.
Tom,
You're incorrect, we ARE still the wealthiest...
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/05/30/153950742/the-worlds-richest-countries-and-biggest-economies-in-2-graphics
Who's threatening to jail people? We're just a little sick of the constant whining about taxes. Guess what, I'm not happy with everything my tax money goes to either, yet I still pay them.
Again, stop whining about paying your taxes. And, as was shown in my links, which you were not able to refute or discredit, the MAJORITY of the time those programs don't keep people in poverty, they pull them out.
Plus, if people are going to help either way, why does it matter to you whether it's through private or public means? You'll still be giving your money to someone either way, unless you WON'T??? This position, coupled with your disparagement of assistance programs, logically leads to the conclusion that you have a problem helping poor people. After all, you aren't complaining about your tax money going to anything else, hence why should we believe you'll be privately charitable?
And, as was shown through those links, the programs you don't want to contribute to, helps the economy WE ALL live in.
The only other logical explanation is that you have a propaganda fed dislike of your OWN government.
You are safe in DC Sarah. All the zombie fetuses are harboring in Detroit. Maybe a few in Indy. Possible sighting in Kokomo.
Byron
U6 numbers
jan 2009=14.2% Dec 2009=17.1%
jan 2010=16.7% Dec 2010=16.6%
jan 2011=16.1% Dec 2011=15.2%
jan 2012=15.1% Oct 2012=14.4%
We'll see which direction it goes given the new burdens business will face.
Akeem and BigATC,
I heard Des Moines is really gonna get the @!$%# storm.
Sarah @ 1.243
"And living in the richest nation on the planet, we have no right to attack or let them starve, as they are HUMAN BEINGS also. A little bit of grace, goes a long way."
No right to starve as in "die"....have you seen or heard of anyone in this country dying from starvation??? Get real....and how do you feel about murdering an unborn baby??? How do you feel about killing an fully developed ready to be born - mother nature just hasn't kicked it out yet - BABY??? Does this bother you at all???
One could look at any election and call it a mandate if one chooses. In 2010 an almost unheard of 65 democrats were sent home from the house by a wide vote. Was that a mandate to knock off the trillion and a half deficit spending? If not, what was that mandate and was it followed?
Simple Theory... what are numbers without a story? Look at 2009 and please explain to me what CAUSED that. Discussion can start from there.
Sarah, so borrowing 40 cents of every dollar we spend somehow makes us rich, whatever.
If you don't pay your taxes you will go to jail, very simple fact.
This isn't a rant on whining about taxes.
If you are happy that the Government takes a dollar from and gives pennies to somebody to stay poor, hey I am happy for you.
I would rather my dollar go directly to helping somebody get back on their feet so someday in the future I can give that dollar to somebody else.
My family gives quite of bit of time, money and donations to local schools, senior homes, big brother/sister, and numerous other charities.
Recycle,
Yes.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/US/hunger-children-america-slow-steady-starvation/story?id=14328390#.UJwDisXA9ws
http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/us_hunger_facts.htm
You mean a fetus?
http://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/articles/fetusperson.shtml
http://truthsite.org/WhyAbortionIsntMurder.html
If you think it's that simple, you're woefully ill informed.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-true-picture-of-the-women-who-face-late-term-abortion/2012/07/27/gJQAxSCjEX_story.html
No.
Does it bother you that you're pro-birth, but not necessarily pro-life?
Fine line as to how much the govt should do as a safety net as opposed to private citizens. I think the govt has a role, even as a small govt guy, but i couldn't give you a number. Personally i would rather use the money i give to the govt myself, as i "adpot" people and help out a cause here or there. Actually i was thinking of adopting Sarah, but not sure she would be keen on the idea of being adopted by a "goofy 40 something".
Tom,
No, it doesn't, that's why I would advocate for spending cuts from where we are WASTING money, or over spending.
http://thinkbynumbers.org/government-spending/corporate-welfare/corporate-welfare-statistics-vs-social-welfare-statistics/
Corporate welfare and an unnecessary amount on defense would be a great place to start. This is also why I would advocate for increasing revenues.
Because simply cutting out assistance to poor people and thinking it will make a difference is laughable.
You keep saying that, yet you STILL haven't been able to discredit or refute the links I provided showing that this is a patently false statement.
Then I suggest you pay them.
You also haven't provided any links, sources or credible evidence showing how private charity is any more effective then public charity.
Yes it is.
Then why bitch when the government does the same thing? If charity is important to you, why aren't you spending this much time complaining about all of the areas of government spending that blow assistance programs out of the water?
@ Jack in Portsmouth
LMAO That is funny. I do have a sense of humor, unlike some. However, first and foremost the part of Washington & Oregon east of the cascades would secede or wouldn't allow them to be taken. I grew up there and no of what I speak. In regards to the best weed? rotflmao You don't know very much about the Northwest. And we are glad you don't. Also, you can surcharge whatever electronics for sale to the red states, as it is not life or death that we have all the dumb phones all you mensa's think are smart. And in regards to all your wonderful electronics plants, many are looking for that wonderful eastern Oregon & Washington weather and many tax breaks offered. I do hope you have the capability in your blue dreamworld to clear out all of your trash because you will need a place to grow your little organic gardens so you can survive, as the price of your groceries are going to be priced out of this world. Oh, and how do you like $20 a gallon gas. I know our red bretheren will be feeling fine with our $1.50 per gallon gas, as the keystone pipeline will serve us fine. It will be nice to have you as neighbors. How will you be feeling when that nice big one on the west drops the coasts of Washington, Oregon, & California deep to the bottome of the ocean. We'll in the red will be just fine setting up our wonderful new coastal properties. LMAO
Akeem
Where would you like to start? The SSA? The MB of '65? the CRA? suing banks to make them loan to subprime people who could not afford the payments? or do you wish simply to jump to the end results of those poor policy choices. Sure you do, you belong to the Modern Day Plantation Master's Party.
Why don't we begin with 2006 when the Democrats took control of Congress and spending really got out of control. Or maybe the last time the Democratic senate passed a budget? Or how the ACA will cost three times as much as advertised for a whopping 2.7 trillion dollars per year.
Yes, let's hear your story. I'm sure it's a fantasy about how Bush single-handedly took down America.
My predictions are already playing out. Layoffs have begun and others will be announced real soon. They should have already been announced but Obama forced employers to violate the law by not announcing them in a timely manner. You haven't heard about it because you are uninformed. Not surprising.
Kristian123, Do you want to re-litigate the election again? The election is over and Obama won, decisively. When are you going to wake up and realize that?
So tell me Sarah, why do people who murder pregnant women get prosecuted for murdering the woman and the child?
In your logic, it is just another 'abortion'.
You cannot have it both ways.
Let your hypocrisy fly chickypoo....
What new burdens? The myth that somehow raising taxes on the upper 2% will cause layoffs or higher unemployment?
Raising taxes does not raise unemployment and lowering taxes does not raise employment. Employee salaries and benefits are not double-taxed, so they are deductible to the employer. For a small business, lowering or raising taxes will change the take-home profits of the owner, but it does not affect their ability to hire new people.
Beyond that, companies tend to wish to minimize their tax burden. When taxes are higher, they can reduce their tax burden more by hiring new people than they can when taxes are lower. So, it is possible that raising taxes will raise employment.
Simple ... you can also add the failed attempt to regulate derivatives in 1996 and the failed attempt to regulate Fannie and Freddie in 2004-2005.
Byron you obviously don't run a business making a statement like raising taxes doesn't affect hiring. You think with higher taxes i could hire more people? LOL The highest cost to business is labor. If BO gets his tax increase and takes another 5% out of the pockets of businesses how is that going to induce them to hire someone. And a tax hike doesn't always mean less in the pocket of an owner. The owner could keep the same amount and then would have to cut back on salary, benfits, hours or just fire someone in order to maintain their current salary.
You're the same person who told us Romney would win. We see how that prediction worked out....lmfao.
Unfortunately the tax on the 'rich' or 1% is a myth. The taxes for ACA will hit EVERYONE, big time.
In a liberals eyes, its not just the people who make $250k or more, it is anyone who is gainfully employed.
If a company cannot pay for the economic needs of a full-time employee, then it is exploiting that employee. Before Obamacare, it was shifting the cost of that employee to the taxpayer by forcing them to use emergency rooms for their healthcare needs. Now it is forced to take responsibility.
Certainly there is rot in the economy. I guess we will find out where it is by tracking the Obamacare layoffs.
Of course they will double. Eventually, every cost doubles. That is what inflation does. Or are you trying to argue that they will double in the next four years. This implies an inflation rate of 18%. Current inflation rates stand at 2%. Could you explain why you expect inflation rates to go up by 900% immediately? Or what exactly are you saying?
The last downgrade hasn't affected the interest rate we pay. So despite the Republicans almost taking us over the brink, they haven't managed to do a lot of damage. Yet.
Phil,
Ooooh, burn, "chicky-poo". As though I've never been insulted based entirely on my gender before.
First off, late term abortions which would be on par with in utero homicide laws, are rare and pretty much only legal under certain circumstances, such as the health of the mother...
http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/spibs/spib_PLTA.pdf
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/27/us/27abortion.html
Second, SCIENCE still does not clarify when "personhood" begins. Until it does, the choice and privacy of the mother are STILL protected civil rights.
For example, the Laci and Connor Law, well in that case, Connor would have been a still born, not a late term abortion. So the fact that he was killed in utero, really has no comparison to any type of abortion.
So, I guess it comes down to a balancing of the rights of victims and the civil rights of women. Yes, it appears schizophrenic, but with some pondering and FACTS I'm sure you'll get it.
Keep in mind that assistance to poor people isn't wasted for the taxpayer. Poor people spend money on necessities, which then enters the economy and acts as a stimulus. As the dollar goes in circles, the government receives money back from gainfully-employed providers in the form of taxes on profits and salaries paid to their employees.
By contrast, giving a rich person a tax break means that the money goes to Wall Street, where the geniuses there try to cook up "interesting" Ponzi schemes to get greater return on those dollars. This is the reason why we had the real estate collapse - too much money trying to get too much return, and people got greedy. Alternately, it goes to the Bahamas or Switzerland, where it again leaves the US economy.
America's economic strength rests on the economic strength of the American consumer, which means that it rests squarely on America's middle class. Put in place policies that make the middle class prosperous and you will have an economically strong country. Raise taxes on the middle class, lower them on the rich and you will start seeing a 3rd world country.
That is why Obama's policies are strengthening America and the Republican policies have weakened it. Republicans realize this. Democrats couldn't push Clinton forward enough. He was popping up everywhere. By contrast, Republicans hid President Bush because they know that their policies have failed and they know that Americans understand that.
It seems that Republicans are still refusing to face reality. Instead of analyzing the failings of their own party, they are once again trying to point fingers and place blame. The fault lies within their own party, and the sooner they realize this the sooner they can adjust.
First: The stereotype that ALL liberals are worthless, deadbeat, welfare recipients with their hands out is a blatant lie. When people like Romney make this claim at 47% of America, or O'Reilly says the same, they do their party a disservice. In reality, there are hard working people on BOTH sides of the isle, and their are welfare recipients on BOTH sides of the isle. The current Republican language does not help attract new voters, instead it alienates potential supports.
Second: The GOP needs to shed the Tea Party extremists. Many moderates, like myself, who have voted more Republican than Democrat, have shifted away from the GOP because of these people. I do not ascribe to the current extreme beliefs of the Republican party, and I will not vote for them again until they purge themselves of this virus. We are not a theocracy and I do not want their religious laws. The supreme court ruled on abortion, leave women alone. Homosexuals are people too, leave them alone. Contraception is not a "war", leave it alone. Rape is not a "gift", leave it alone.
Until these things happen, the GOP will struggle with gaining support.
Nor do women come in binders, trapper keepers, accordion files, or any other organizational office tool.
BigATC,
I would be okay with you adopting me. However, my mother may have a problem with that. And she is 5'1 inch of fierce Sicilian.
P.S. Yes, I have a mother and I wasn't just spouted from the bowels of liberal hell. Go figure.
Phil
Because the prosecutors generally try to get as many charges filed as possible.
The actions of lawyers attempting to get a conviction is not the basis for scientific law, nor can it be used as "proof" of life.
Only a small portion of that dollar comes back Byron, where does that initial money come from. In your scenario the govt spends $1000 to get back $100. Or in todays terms it spends $600 and borrows $400 to get back $100. It is a momentary stimulus but what about the long term affect of borrowing that money. It has to be paid back.
All money doesn't flow through Wall street. If the underlying investments would have been sound Byron there would have been no collapse. The real estate market didn't collapse because someone invested in real estate bonds. It collapsed because the underlying product was crap..... the subprime loans.
Phil,
As I mentioned victims rights, above. Those laws are somewhat of a testament to the female victims choice of carrying the child.
To anyone confused about why the market dropped right "after" Obama's relection:
From http://buzz.money.cnn.com/2012/11/08/obama-stocks-europe-fiscal-cliff/?iid=HP_LN :-
To be fair, I did have women in a little black book . . . or, black smart phone, to be more precise.
Phil-3222496........you said:
That is an interesting point. Who was it who pushed the legislation that made it double murder to kill a pregnant woman?
Here's another thing to consider: Why don't those who think that fetuses are "people" have a funeral each time they have a spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) ?
You see, most of us understand the distinction between a zygote and a person. But, for those who can only see in black and white, debates concerning colors are futile.
BTW---since you folks also believe corporations are "people", why don't you have funerals after every Chapter 7 bankruptcy?
Jack #1/ I live in a Red State and Yes that was hilarious.
Simple theory, that was not my story, "blaming bush" in fact I did not have one. I was just refuting the one you were trying to provide. You gave us a snap shot trying to convey that based on the information within the data you presented President Obama was not a good President.
If we spoke of any of the items you mentioned before it leads to ONE undisputable scenario. Events that happened before the president's time in office led to the awful economy. If you wish to criticize the president it can only be on a sluggish recovery. It is naive to critcize the current president on absolutes of these numbers, the only fair criticism, though disputable, is the rate of recovery.
The basis of the arguments that many conservatives on here argue are on the absolutes. When one explains that there is simply more to it than that, they are accused of Blaming Bush... you know sort of like how you just did to me.
interesting thinking back to my 20's when i was pro choice and maybe leaned a little Dem. Until i saw my first ultrasound and the baby moved and have been pro life ever since.
Most pro choice people go "legal" this or "scientific" this and it all boils down to watching a baby move in an ultrasound for me. But thats what makes us a great country, and kind of like a big dysfunctioal semi loving family, the right to voice and respect our disagreements.
Byron
I appreciate talking points as well as the next person. Moreso, because I know they are just that. Do you know what caused the Great Depression Byron? Obviously not.
People are already being fired with the employers citing the reason as Obamacare Byron. Your denial does not make it untrue. That trillion dollars that has been sitting on the sidelines due to the uncertainty business faced? It will be sat upon still or moved offshore.
People work to better themselves Byron. They do not work to provide jobs for others. That's a bonus when people do build businesses.
Sandy - Ignorance is why you voted for Obama. The top 5 American made cars 1). Toyota Avalon 2). Chevrolet Express Van 3). Toyota Sienna 4). Honda Accord 5). Honda Cross tour. Government Motors makes more cars out of the United States than in. So a 50 Billion dollar bribe is not what they needed. Good leadership is. This WILL come back to haunt President Bribe, we will see why Romney's route with GM would have been much better. But why let the truth get in the way of Liberalism!
BigATC
So you admit that your stance is purely based on emotions. You had an emotional experience the first time you saw something move on an ultrasound, and that emotion over-ruled your previous belief.
That is fine, but you ignore the main issue at hand . . . it was still YOUR CHOICE. It is perfectly fine that you made that choice, but what right do you have to take that choice away from someone else?
There is also the economical impact. The fact is that 50% of food stamp spending goes to children. Can we afford more of this? Or are we supposed to stop caring about them after they are born? Can our society survive with more unwanted children requiring food stamps and welfare? How much are you willing to spend on them?
Interesting story... took a friend of mine to find out the sex of her baby at about 4 months i think. They couldn't tell from the ultrasound from the position of the baby. The doctor told her to drink water and i asked why. She said it fills and expands the bladder and a lot of times makes the baby want to move and change positions. It in fact did and she found out it was a boy. Amazed me, but then that doesn't take much. I have a hard time watching that experience and classifying what i saw on the ultrasound as a zygote.
Indie, i did indeed make my decision to be pro life on the emotion of watching a baby move in an ultrasound. It wasn't a hard core belief before, i just never haad the experience of watching a living thing move before.
I don't have any right to take that choice away from anyone and i never said that. Read the last sentance in that post again. If you can watch a baby move in an ultrasound and terminate it, thats you.
You don't seem to understand the point I made. Let me try again, but from your attitude, it is rather obvious that you are constitutionally incapable of reading; just resorting to insults.
But, here goes: a company that is unable to provide for the healthcare of its full-time employees is rotten. It is a parasite on the taxpayer because it is shifting the cost of the health of those employees on to emergency rooms, which then charge the taxpayer for taking care of the uninsured.
Hence, a company that lays off employees because of Obamacare is a parasite. It is a rotten company, and we will find out how far the rot goes by following these Obamacare-caused layoffs. By no means is this a good thing, but it is better to find these companies now rather than to allow the rot to get worse.
No doubt. But how exactly does this refute my point that higher taxes means that an employer can reduce their tax burden even further by hiring more people? Higher taxes on business means there's a greater incentive to hire more people. Lower taxes on business means there's a smaller incentive to hire more people.
Yes, people work to "better themselves Byron." That doesn't address the issue of incentives. Or are you somehow trying to argue that people don't understand the tax code?
BigATC, if you have 50 employees, making minimum wage ($7.25 per hour), your payroll has to be somewhere between $750,000 and $1 Million annually. That means you've got to be pulling in at least $1 million in sales just to break even, without adding in any other costs. Likely, with 50 employees, you'd be pulling in at a minimum $2 million in sales each year.
If you don't have an insurance broker advising you on the ACA, you're not making that kind of money (nor having at least 50 employees) and you're not going to be subject to the ACA.
Perhaps you're inflating the number of employees you have?? But then, no one on here would exaggerate, would they???
Akeem
But you didn't refute any of what I said. There is no real facts you can offer which supports your premise. Obama has made no headway in nearly 4 years since he took office. GDP growth is below 1.5%. That is anemic and practically nonexistent. Unemployment (real U6) has gotten worse since he took office. My numbers from the BLS prove that. Median family income has dropped by around 4500 dollars. More people live below the poverty line than at any other time since the great depression. Health care cost have risen nearly 20% since he came into office. Gas is double since he came into office. Food costs 30% more and electricity costs will skyrocket in the next couple of years.
There is nothing you can point at and say "it's better". You can, of course, but you'll just be lying to yourself. And he has no idea how to improve any of it. Tax the rich? Not an answer.
And, as per Capitalism, should fail, leaving market space and resources for productive companies.
Tom-Plymouth#1.244: Indeed yes. Not apples to apples though. From about 94 through 2001 Clinton presided over an historical US GDP expansion. Wages were relatively good and unemployment was actually nil. Additionally no wars, and very low inflation. I really doubt the lowering of Cap gains rates effected the increased revenue much though. Demand for products and services flowing from the new dot com era were overwhelming production, and business would not have missed opportunities for greater profits due to the difference of 5% in cap rates. Additionally, the country could well afford the reduced rates since revenues were rich from all alternative sources. None of this is the case today. We have a hell of a debt, and thankfully, a slowly reducing deficit. Revisiting the tax code, repairing imbalances, rates, deductions, deferrments, etc. is logical and necessary to the stability of any plan to regain order to our national financial order. Regards
And i would never base a decision on having a baby on the fact that the child may be on food stamps one day.
Simple Theory you are ignoring my point again with another "absolute". You are starting your comparison from when Obama took office. That was not the end of the effect of things outside of his control. All those numbers were on downward trends before he took office, the economy is now improving. you starting with the 2008 number and comparing it directly to 2012 is no different than me completly ignoring 2008 and starting from late 2009. Neither approach makes sense.
Right now you are not looking at the numbers or the facts you are interpreting and selectively analyzing.
Like I said you can criticize for the lack of a speedy recovery but you cannot blame the recession on Obama. That long list you put there most of those can in some way be blamed on the recession, unless you are saying the current president did in fact cause the recession I am not sure how you can in your heart honestly feel he owns that.
Byron, there are a lot of companies that bust their butts to the best of their abilities that just can't afford health care. That is insulting to them calling them rotten just because they aren't successful enough to afford health care. My neighbor down the street runs a flower shop, is very passionate about it as that is what she loves, but doesn't make enough to get health care for her employees. Likewise a friend that runs a restuarant. These are 2 fine people and far from rotten.
I can't even fathom how you derive higher taxes means one can hire more. If you are refering to write offs a business gets for its employees, that pails to the amount of the compensation package one pays for salary and insurance. It's not even close. Do you have any idea how much it costs an employer to insure someone now? On average about $15,000 per employee. Maybe 10k or a bit less with bare bones stuff. You don't get REMOTELY close to that with any write offs you may get for them.
Byron
Not sure why you thought I insulted you. What you quoted is not an insult. Unless you're particularly tender. Regardless, if I did allow me to apologize. But this is nonsense:
Businesses are parasites Byron? That's very screwed up. You know who is a parasite Byron? The government. All they do is take. Tell me Byron, do you know how many and the make up of the companies which have been pardoned from Obamacare? Not trying to offend your sensibilities Byron but you seem to have a very limited understanding of how the world works. I take it you are very young with a lot to learn. Good for you.
Here's the first rule of business Byron:
Businesses are in the business of making a profit. Not providing jobs or healthcare. Those come after a business has become successful.
Obamacare is a burden on business and cuts into the bottom line. In order to remain profitable something has to go. Generally, labor is the easiest cost to control. Controlling labor costs means cutting people.
Starting to understand? The govt cannot survive without business. Parasites or not.
If you think Obamacare will reduce ER visits, look at what happened with Romneycare. They said the same for that but ER visits in Mass. went UP. Reason being people couldn't get in to see the doctors and even people WITH insurance were going to the ER. Same will happen nationally, and if your doc takes medicaid the wait times will be HUGE.
BIG ATC, I understand where Byron was coming from but I think to call them parasites was a little much. I think the gist is to stop seeing companies that cannot afford healthcare as vitctims, but as unsucessful businesses. If one is seeing healthcare as a benefit that is supposed to be provided by employer then these companies are shifting that cost from themselves to tax payers and are achieving an artificial gain from that to their business, whether they make money or not.
I understand your point where some businesses may not make enough to pay for their employees healthcare. My argument to that is does that business owner use profits from the company to pay for their own health care? How is it that the owner of the business expects their employment to cover their healthcare cost, but it is wrong when their employees expect the same? I am not saying it is right, but clearly there is a large room for discussion, I do not think the solution is easy.
Akeem
You, or Obama, stating the economy is improving does not make it so. You telling me "starting from 2008" really is senseless. The economy began to tank the second half of 2008. I gave you examples of policies which led to that and you're telling me I didn't. Very confusing Akeem. Or maybe you don't understand what those policies were and the history behind them. If that is it then I understand. They don't bother much with real history in school nowadays. Google those and we'll discuss them at another time when you have a better understanding of what they are and what they mean for America.
As for the lack of recovery. Yes, I can blame Obama. Just as you are attempting to blame his predecessor. He is the president and he is where the buck stops. He has no vision as to how to guide our nation on a path to recovery, not a clue. America gave up the best alternative choice we had by re-electing him.
But tell me, since it is possible I missed it.
What is his plan to put us back on a path towards prosperity? Tax the rich? Green jobs? Stimulate the economy with food stamps?
Cannibal, maybe you jumped in mid stream but i wasn't talking of a company i own. I was looking at a 15% stake with a group of guys buying out someone in business that wants to retire. Obamacare being one reason.
Estimating sales based on employees is naive at best. There are many companies his size that both make and lose money to a wide degree of profitibility or loss.
Akeem
Do you think that people own businesses because someone just walked up to them and said,"I like the way you look! Want a business?"
If the business is paying for the owner's health care cost, who is paying for the health care? People do not owe you anything because they may be smarter, more diligent, or work longer and harder to get what they have earned.
@StoptheCannibals-2908428#1.299: Agree with you. "Big ATC" is floating bullsh^t. In the beginning I was actually trying to help Him/Her. If "Big ATC" really does have some sort of business, He/She has no business having such business. A helluva lot of people, especially righties, seem to enjoy getting on here and making asses of themselves. Wouldn't be at all surprised if "Big ATC" isn't on here scouting out a hoped for date. Regards my friend
Akeem there is no requirement or obligation for any business to provide healthcare. A person starts a business to provide for his/her family period. I'm not gonna risk my time and money for the sole purpose of trying to hire people to get them insurance, that's the byproduct of success.
When one starts to grow they reach a point to hire. If they are successful enough they can provide insurance. Most companies that can afford it do so because it attracts good employees and its just the right thing to do. I would if in that situation. There are a lot of business owners that buy for themselves but not employees simply because they can't afford it. It's a big expense spending 10k to 15k per employee for insurance. Of course that can vary greatly depending on if one gets a bare bones policy, dental, vision, etc.
Obamacare will tempt businesses that are on the edge, pay 10k for their insurance or let them go to the exchanges on their on and pay the 2k fine.
You are right Mac, i'm floating bull@!$%#. It's good you are trying to help me and you ascertained from my posts i have no business being in business. I will immediately stop looking into this one, sell my current LLC and just stick with my govt job. Should i also stay out of the market? Should i get rid of my rentals? Please let me know so i can meet your standards. I have a full time govt job and have been doing side businesses since 2001. I'm so glad i ran into you so i can stop immediately. I had no idea i had no business being in business, whew, that was close. Good luck to you my friend.
Da Noid Post 1.13
Compromise is a bigger learning curve for McConnell and Boehner but President Obama is going to give them a crash course, ie.............push them off the cliff.
Simple Theory I am not sure how many times you can miss my point. The policies you named have nothing to do with the President's term. They occured before. Don't worry I'm just stupid though continue to insult my education.
To both your points about healthcare (BigATC Simple Theory), I stated my case with if one looks at an employer as provider of healthcare, it was mostly hypothetical. I understand businesses are not started to provide for others, but the employee employer contract is that an agreement of work for pay.
A business owner creates a business to provide for themselves and families if they have one. Is that not the same reason one takes a job? If your job does not pay someone an adequate amount to do so why should someone want to work for you? The business owner who hires someone full time knowing the pay does not cover their employer's living cost is recieving a benefit if that employer than recieves government assistance. Obviously this does not apply to all businesses as the work may not be difficult or the business is really just that small. Also, there are companies who truly cannot afford these costs, and there are those who simply do not want to pay them. How strongly I would argue this would change depending where on that spectrum a specific company fell.
I am fascinated by the fact that you think that someone else has "a lot to learn" and don't understand the vital role that government plays in keep you safe, secure and employed. Before you start teaching others, I recommend you get off your high horse and examine other countries where governments are not "parasites." You can find a lot of them in 3rd world countries with 0% tax rates. Invariably, countries which are prosperous are prosperous because they have high tax rates, and the government is able to provide the environment that allows a business to exist.
You strike me as the average Conservative who has no understanding whatsoever of how the world works and is incapable of seeing beyond his next tax return. Let me point out the simple facts of life to you. Your infrastructure is not free. Nothing is free. Stop asking for a handout and ask for someone else to support you. Pay for it yourself.
If a business is not capable of providing for the need of its full-time employees then it is a parasite on the taxpayer.
Obamcare is a "burden" on some businesses because those businesses was a parasite on the American taxpayer. It was unable to provide for its employees. Rather I was providing for the healthcare of these employees because they used hospital emergency rooms for their healthcare. It is time that these business took responsibility for themselves and stop being a burden on the rest of us.
Jack, your friend is an ignorant ass, and the next four years will prove him to be so. A question to all you libs out there about the fiscal cliff you're all so afraid about--Why would you or Obama care if the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of the year? According to you and the President, they were all targeted to the rich anyway. They should start paying their fair share. What are you talking about? Oh yeah, if they expire the average family's tax bill will increase by $3700. But hell, they've been getting by pretty easy since Bush. Those jerks have a small business or a job they've been working hard at. So unfair. Let's stick it to them too.
I am very sorry, but the simple fact is that a business exists to make money. If that business does not make enough money to pay for its employees' needs, then it should not be be in business. Either that business needs to learn to do more with fewer employees and learn to take care of them. If it cannot, then it isn't a viable business. It's as simple as that.
I'd suggest that you learn to read better, then. You seem to have gone off the deep end.
I am referring to the simple fact that when my employer pays me a dollar, that dollar is not taxed before he pays it to me. For a small business, if he reduces my salary by $1 and keeps it for himself, he will have to pay taxes on that $1. If the tax rate is high, he has a higher incentive to give it to me - or to hire another employee and give it to them, because he would take less of that dollar home, after taxes. If the tax rate is low, he has a lower incentive to give it to me, because he gets to keep it all for himself. It is the simplest explanation of why trickle-down theory not only didn't work, but could NOT have worked.
Akeem, the reason someone would take a job that didn't offer insurance would be to feed him/herself. Not trying to be funny, i took a job for a year and a half that had no insurance when i was younger. I was glad to get it. There are a lot of entry level jobs that don't provide insurance but people need the work. I would hope most jobs like that would be entry level and one would work themselves into a situation to get a job or start a business to get insurance for themselves.
It's gonna be painful...but just wait till the givaways have to stop no matter what and the Libs start eating their own.
Do you realize what Obama wants? What liberal wants? And what the policy position is?
For years, people like you have been telling us that Obama has been raising taxes. All of a sudden, you seem to have realized what we have been telling you - that yes, Obama has extended Bush's tax cuts and added some of us own. Yes, Obama REDUCED taxes on the average family by $3700. Yes, we know this. We have been telling you people this for years. Thanks for realizing it.
Liberals out there are not afraid of the fiscal cliff. Liberals want us to go off the fiscal cliff. As soon as the tax rate cuts expire, any Democrat Congressman can propose a re-reduction of tax rates for everyone back to the way they were on Dec 31st, minus the tax rate reduction for earnings above $250,000. Republican Congressmen and Senators are all obligated to vote for tax reductions. They have already pledged to do so.
Everyone votes for it, it goes to Obama, he signs it, and it's all done. The middle class gets to keep their tax cut. End of problem.
If Republicans were really that worried about economic uncertainty, they could all pass such a proposal now and get it all over with. The simple fact is that they don't care. They only work for the top 1% and don't care what happens to the economy and the middle class.
You're going to be waiting on this for a long time. Liberals, by and far, tend to be higher earners. We are just tired of free-loaders like you who keep thinking that we need to pay for your infrastructure. This country isn't free. Stop whining about not getting it for free.
There is no requirement or obligation for me to provide healthcare for YOUR employees. Period. If you hire them, you are responsible for them. If you cannot afford to hire them, then don't. I don't earn my money so that you can use it to subsidize your employees' needs. Stop freeloading off the rest of us.
All you lefties think there is some major power attained in the White house... Well guess what... Things are the same as they were the day before yesterday. With one exception; Maybe you people will start to realize half of the country didn't vote for Obama. Maybe you people will realize more than half of the REPRESENTATIVES of the people are Republican. Maybe some of you will realize if you want handouts for unplanned parenthood, big bird or lazy people. YOU will have to appreciate what the GOP has to say. Because you will if you want anything... I actually laugh my ass off when you all are on your high horse thinking you are the majority…. You are when it comes to the young and lazy. Without the young, uninformed and lazy…. You would have President Romney right now. So hold on to your iPhones, Starbucks and EBT cards…. Because we hold the purse strings. I have faith that President Obama moves to the middle this term. Because if he doesn’t… Congress will remind him, there isn’t enough rich people in this country to keep YOUR lights on.
Byron I fully understand your point, you might just be explaining it too harshly. I have come to the conclusion as well that lower taxes causes employers to lay off staff. There are many reasons, most with incentives that in a long term view lower taxes do not really add jobs.
BigATC, again I understand the point of business and I get what you are saying. People who take jobs that do not pay for their entire well being do so because it is better to have some than not.
The point I am trying to get across is if that wage the employer is paying does not cover the basic needs of that employee, in many cases our government picks up the tab. The employer, whether making a profit or not is recieving a benefit from the government if their employees are on government assistance.
The employee took the job to try and provide for themselves not to make the business owner money, If an employee was not making enough to provide for themselves, they would not be able to work, because they would be struggling to survive. If you have a large amount of full-tme employees and between their earnings and your benefits they cannot afford coverage your business is not succesful. You are simply underpaying people/transfering cost to the government. To collect a large profit from that does not sit well with me
Byron, so in the scenario of my friend running the flower shop what should she do? She needs 3 people to run it but doesn't make enough to buy insurance for them. You say its not viable should she close? What would you do?
You say the dollar is not taxed before it comes to you. It is taxed when profit is made. What i would pay you is previously taxed money.
You say if i reduce your salary it wouldn't be prudent to keep that dollar. Using Obamas proposed increase if i did keep that dollar i would get 60.4 cents instead of 65 cents. Hardly a reason to go pay someone 50k a year. So instead of paying 4.6 cents extra, i would go and hire someone at 50k per year? LOL
Also you don't take into account i may not do none of your options but instead just decide not to re-invest as much in the business since i lost money through tax increase,s or cut your hours or benefits
Say i make a million net. Pay you 100k. Pay myself 100k and re-invest 900k.
BO get his 5% increase and now i have 850k to re-invest instead of 900k and 5 k less take home.
So now i have LESS money to spend and re-invest. I have to CUT something. Either how much i re-invest, how much i take home, how much i pay you, your benefits, my benefits, etc.
How do i hire someone if i LOSE 50k from the company through taxes and 5k in take home?
BIG ATC: Just get a job for the government and then you don't have to worry about profit in order for your company to pay you. hell some guy that does have a successful company will just have to pay more taxes on his profitable company to cover you. Hey that's a great Idea!!! Lets all get jobs with the government and life will be bliss. Nobody should start a business.... Just get a job with the government. I think the first thing we should do with the tax system is make all government employees tax exempt. Say if they make 100K a year and are in a 30% tax bracket.... We should just pay them 70K a year. That way they get the real idea that they are not really tax payers. Plus it will save them a trip to H and R Block every year.
If someone is hired without health insurance that is a burden on the govt? That is quite the observation. The only other alternative is don't hire them and they go on welfare? If the lady and the 3 employees all make 25 k per year, and she can't pay another 40k per year for insurance she should do what? Just close?
Yup.. She can just go on welfare. No sweat. Some rich guy can pay his fair share. Well until we run out of rich guys.
Hey drill, if we all went on welfare that would stimulate the economy!
BigATC What I mean by is it is a burden on the government/tax payer is if they go to the Emergency room the tax payer or government covers that cost.
Sure Akeem i thought that might have been what you meant, thats what medicaid is for. And it has been built into premiums for years. There is no perfect system. What they tried with Romneycare actually made ER visits go up, which i found interesting. Even people with insurance go to the ER there and that is why Mass has some of the highest, if not the highest, healthcare costs in the country.
I wouldn't have thought ER visits to go up, neither did the Romneycare guys i suspect. Google .."massachusetts ER visits rise" and check out the articles on how ER visits actually went up. I doubt the Obamacare people thought this out either, although the data was there by then to see. Same thing will happen nationwide as it is basically the same model.
Here is the really funny part... You can tax every rich guy 100% income tax. We would still be borrowing money from China. That's what happens when we are a trillion in the hole every year. CUTS MUST ME MADE.
Unplanned Parenthood doesn't need cash from us every year... They make 600 million a year sucking baby guts out of teen girls and don't pay a dime of taxes on that. the chick that runs it makes over 500K a year. We don't need to give them several hundred million a year.
Big Bird doesn't need our cash.... He is a firgg'n BILLIONAIRE and his boss makes over a million a year
Oil companies and GE don't need our tax breaks...
....And the proposed tax increase would give us a 1.25 trillion deficit instead of a 1.3 trillion deficit.
Sorry Enlightened States but your numbers are all wrong because you forgot about Alaska. We have over 6 million lakes and streams. Makes those Great lakes not so great. have fun pedaling to work as you don't squat for petro. Guess you will have to "Flintstone" all those BMW's and Mercedes.
It's about time that we get a comprehensive deficit-reduction package-one that contains an EQUAL amount of revenues and spending cuts. That alone is fair. What I don't understand is that one party is hell-bent on deficit reduction and claims to be fiscally responsible, yet neither their history nor their actual proposals do that. The best way to reduce the deficit for Democrats is to simply let the fiscal cliff happen, and with the Republicans desperate to fix the economy we ought to force in a spending bill of $1.2 trillion on infrastructure spending over 3 years, negating the short-term impact of the fiscal cliff and still getting a bigger bang for your buck. After all, Democrats only have to do nothing in order to solve the deficit in the medium term and turn the focus onto the economy and entitlement reform.
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
I agree... Let the bush tax cuts expire. It's about time the lower incomes pay their fair share.
Bush should have never did those cuts and started Homeland Security... that cost a massive 200 billion a year.
It really all boils down to what kind of an American you want to be. Do you want to make money or take money.
After Obama Victory, Shrieking, White-Hot Sphere of Pure Rage Early GOP Frontrunner for 2016
http://www.theonion.com/video/after-obama-victory-shrieking-whitehot-sphere-of-p,30284/
Hilarious and oddly accurate.
Sarah, I'm afraid you're horribly wrong on one important issue. Drinking wine from a box does lower your IQ, especially the White Zinfandel. For your own sake, and the sake of your children, you should switch to bottled wines ASAP. Preferably something with a cork.
If both parties don’t actually start doing something to fix the real problems in our country like “out-sourcing”, illegal immigration and the out of control costs of health care insurance, by the next election – American citizens may just have to run a nation-wide campaign to vote every single incumbent out of office, so that maybe then they’ll finally get the message.
Wouldn't it be More Productive if Our Elected Leaders Started Working Together as AMERICANS for AMERICANS and AMERICA, instead of just bickering, stalling and posturing for the next election as democrats and republicans! The American People have had it with this unproductive BS! We need both parties to actually start looking out for the best interest of the US Citizens who elect them and who they're supposed to represent. If they stop fighting and actually start working together to solve our problems, America and all Americans will be much better off.
Joe in Albany-1902257 .....you said:
Would you also have us believe that the Pope is not Catholic?
It really was not that close in the electoral college (where it matters). The 2000 Bush "victory" over Gore was close (271 to 266).
sarah @l.268..........I read your source about hunger in the US. My question was "do you know anyone that has starved to death in this country"....my question still is "do you know anyone that has starved to death in this country" as your source never mentioned anyone dying from starvation. In fact the little girl pictured looked well fed.
As for late term abortion, have you ever heard anyone say "I'm having a fetus"........or my little fetus is a boy or a girl. And why is a person charged with two murders if they have killed a pregnant woman and her "baby". You are preaching to the choir on this one!!!!
The ‘predictable’ future? This is only possible when we know the trajectory the Republican Party will take after the dust and bloodletting have settled and whether or not the Norquists/Limbaughs are shown the backdoor. If not and there is continued obstructionism, 2014 will reverse 2010 and Christie may well have to wait until 2024 to have a viable shot. Were Boehner to tell Cantor and Ryan to sit down and shut up so that some good comes out of fiscal negotiations then a Christie/Rubio 2016 ticket will be a force to counter Hillary in 2016..
Hillary and Who? Governor Schwietzer of Montana?
“I am not goofy enough to be in the House, and I’m not senile enough to be in the Senate,” sums up Schweitzer, adding he prefers to be in charge than pay homage to congressional seniority rules.
“If Hillary runs, she walks away with the nomination and then beats whichever Republican,” Schweitzer said of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. “It’s lights out.”
Former Governor Bill Richardson to counter Rubio and maintain the Latino vote?
BCW, Rubio is considered a little weasel here in Florida, he is by no means "representative" of the Hispanic vote. He will be gone (hopefully) in the next Senatorial election cycle. Unfortunately Cubans are not very well received in the I-4 corridor, or Southeast Florida, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Mexicans, etc., comprise a larger demographic group than Cubans. Rubio burned his bridge with those folks and the rest of Sane Floridians. The Blunt-Rubio legislation will not be forgotten, nor his stance on the Dream Act, pretty hypocritical considering his Grandfather was an "illegal" and his family didn't emigrate to escape Castro, they emigrated before Castro came to power, he lied about that and glossed over other character issues. The "Token" for the Republican party is just that, another empty lock-step elephant.
Obama 2012--2016
R & R are in a daze looking at a BlueMoon, a dream come Blue !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Skyparrot, I am working under the assumption that Gov. Scott makes anyone look good on the Republican side in Florida.
Where did all the right wingers go? My, it's peaceful here.
Mitt Romney lost his home state by 25%, his birth state by 9%, and the states where he owns homes (NH and CA) by 6% and 20%. That looks like the Midas touch in reverse. Luckily he doesn't own homes in any red states or he might've lost those, too!
The electoral college has created this artificial "blue state, red state" distinction. 41% of Texans voted for Obama, 48% of N. Carolinians, 45% of Georgians, 41% of Montanans, and so on. You get the idea.
But screw all them, right? If they're not smart enough to leave friends and family to move to a proper state, then they deserve what they get.
Romney lost the popular vote too.
Romney is hiding all his Lies in the Cayman's for the next run !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
VP Bob from Virginia and I had a bet that the loser of Virginia had to stop posting for 6 months on MSNBC. We can now say bye bye, to Bob.
Remember, We had faith in Nate!
Mike: So what? I didn't vote for him either. My point is slamming a whole state for being red is unfair as a great many of the residents aren't, but people talk like all Texans are Bush wannabes or everyone living in a red state is on welfare. One half of the country is pointing fingers at the other half when in reality we're all mixed in together.
Job1,
Good to see probe boy is taking your wager seriously!
It's nice to see the troll traffic has diminished significally around here! lol
.
NewDay: nbnj did come up for air yesterday, but most of them are still lying low- not much of a change from before the election, come to think of it. Joe from Albany sounds like just as much of a pompous, self-important windbag as ever ( I want my cheeseburger medium, Joe, and don't screw it up or I'll have you cleaning up Ann Romney's stable all winter), and there's no humility in the forecast for any of them- just a lot of (hopefully vicious and mutually destructive) internecine warfare as they try to fix the blame and designate a scapegoat.
What shouldn't have shocked me, but did, was how quickly they were able to shift gears from "conquering armies sweeping all before us" to "oppressed picked-on victimized minority". They just love to play the victim card, don't they? Yeah, we all know somebody who was refused employment or had his car vandalised for having blue eyes, and it's just appalling how those TV megachurches are targets of vandals too- all those Hasidic and Hindu gangs running wild- no, no, NO, I said I would try to dial back the sarcasm, but when I see some arrogant jerk who's painted a bullseye on his own chin, it's just so hard to restrain myself. I think Feisty and Seeking would sympathize with me!
AG99, your point is well taken; I lived in Austin for ten very enjoyable years, and my older brother is living in Dallas right now. It's an under-reported fact that many Texans were horribly embarrassed by W, who by the way was born in Connecticut and is no more a Texan than his Yankee- patrician daddy. Progressives of all people should beware of painting with a broad brush because of where somebody parks their boots or what sort of accent they have.
Finally, I wanted to reiterate my warning to my fellow proud Liberals against the Victory Disease; we contracted that after our President won in '08 and we ran the table in the House and Senate, and what did we get for our hubris? We got the Tea Party! Those who can be won over with sweet reason should be engaged in a non-confrontational way (yeah, it'll be freakin' tough for me too!), and the ones who are too far gone in their hatred, resentment and xenophobia should just be marginalized and made harmless. Above all, we should keep firmly in mind the principles we stand for, and not try to beat them to the bottom. Peace!
You were saying how the electoral college was broken - which agree with you.
But electoral college aside - Obama still carried the popular vote - which I assume is what you were promoting.
Fox: I saw no jo's post yesterday! She decided that the remedy to this election was going out and buying a coat made out of murdered minks!
How delusional is that?
We can't relax about the Teapublicans. They do not like being thwarted and aren't going to take this setback well.
Keep writing, my friend!
The one mandate from the election is cooperation between the parties.
Division won't be tolerated. If Republicans won't play ball, we'll see big changes in 2014.
Obama should bring forward immigration reform legislation, climate change legislation, and further regulatory reforms for Wall Street. However, he should do that after laying out legislation for a grand bargain that raises revenues and decreases the debt.
Have you heard this one?
Mitch McConnell is quoted as saying he's determined to make President Obama a two-term President.
Salud
FoxTrotsky -
Well said! I've been really enjoying having you around here. Though I really try to keep my feet firmly planted on the high road, my shrink says it's good to let my inner child out to play every once in a while, so I've learned to give in to the temptation and then do appropriate penance afterwards.
Just remember that when you DO dial the sarcasm back up, you have to make sure the appropriate font is engaged - you'd be amazed at the number of people here who just don't get it.
From the Washington Post's annual contest to invent new words/meanings just by modifying one letter in an existing word:
"sarchasm": The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the recipient who just doesn't get it"
Okay, a few other favorites:
"reintarnation": Coming back to life as a hillbilly
"Dopeler effect": the tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly
"tatyr": A lecherous Mr. Potato Head
"Karmageddon": It's like, when everybody is sending off all these really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and it's like a serious bummer.
More:
http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~beatrice/humor/sarchasm.html
Laughing out loud. Love the humor in this thread!
Yes, Rubio is a turd. Gotta say I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Hillary to run and unless the republicans run a progressive moderate Woman, they will lose again.
It's really nice to see the left are gracious winners and are still doing name calling and all their school yard bulling tactics. Grow up and stop the insanity. Amazing just how divided this country has become and name calling etc. is going to continue to feed into to it. I think it is time for all of us to become Americans again and pull together.
I will only believe that Republicans are trying to build and not destroy this country when the whole crowd of ultra-right-wing TV and radio hosts goes away, including those on Fox News, and all news stations become balanced. I have no problem with free speech: Rush and Rove can say anything they want to (the sluts), but I have a lot more problem with people who listen to them and form policies based on that thinking.
In other words, they can say anything they want to, but a legitimate voter wouldn't let that kind of thing in, you know, because they have a mechanism to prevent them from being brainwashed.
Jo Anne: BWAH-HAH-HAH! Classic! I'll be having breakfast with my Dad tomorrow, like we do most Fridays. He's the man who introduced me to Mark Twain, Ray Bradbury, Larry Niven and an host of others. I love having something humourous to start our day with, and these are freakin' excellent.
Only have one to offer you in return, off the top of my head- Kinetiquette, the laws governing the behaviour and deportment of bodies in motion. I'll keep an eye peeled for more!
Fox -
Sounds like a great tradition! My own Dad passed away eight years ago, and he was never the reader my Mom was, but he did introduce me to baseball, Patsy Cline and Tennesee Ernie Ford, how to drive a stick shift, keep a scorecard, and the right way to put the lights on the Christmas tree, the joy and wonders of traveling right here in the good old USA, and he made the best home-made peach ice cream in the world. He also taught me my political values and he never wavered from his. I'd give anything to be having breakfast with him tomorrow morning. So tell your Dad "hi" from me and to have some apple butter on his toast for my "Deddy" (not a typo - long story). Enjoy!
AG99: I agree that the states are all mixed as for Democrats/Republicans. The Electoral College is dangerous, and could cause dangerous rifts in commerce, or political favors. Although I think that there are other priorities, it would be best if America made a new Constitutional Amendment to get rid of the Electoral College, as well as weighted votes in the Electoral College adding 2 to every state, giving each state a minimum of 3 Electoral votes. That is huge, when a large state such as Texas has only 38 Electoral votes, and California 55, but Wyoming and several other small states, with a small fraction of California's population, gets 3 Electoral votes. This pits one part of the country against another, which tempts politicians to take more money away from those states, further dividing the country. It would be much better if the votes were all counted equally.
Jack actually has a good idea there of splitting the country in two. That would be a perfect opportunity to show that Conservative principles would result in prosperity, and after the blue states (the "disenfranchised" states of socialism) would be crawling back to us asking in. Kind of reminds me of a Monopoly game I played with my sister when we were kids; I gave her ALL of the money, and I kept all of the property. Didn't take long before she realized that she was on the losing end. Such as you are. Now that Obama has won his second term, those of you who have refused to see the man for who he really is, are about to have the curtain opened. There is nothing to hold him back from implementing his destructive policies now. Wait until energy prices skyrocket, and we can't afford to put gas in our vehicles or heat our homes. It's coming. Wait until the massive tax increases are imposed to pay for all this "free" stuff he wants to spread around. The stock market is already tanking for fear of what this man is going to do. Wait until he unleashes the EPA to destroy the coal industry and we lose all those jobs. It's just the beginning folks. I hope you enjoyed living in the United States of America, because after Obama is done with it, you won't recognize it any more. Enjoy YOUR president. I'm glad I'm retired from the service, at least I don't have to take orders from him.
What Obama said after Sandy hit was "We are going to cut through the red tape. We are not going to get bogged down in a lot of rules." Then he spent a couple hours for photo ops, and then back to the campaign trail where he could forget all about the storm that swept him back into the White House. But just like all those broken promises from the first term, Obama has already forgotten all about the victims of Sandy and the massive suffering going on. This is what we elected, a person that will make a promise, and then break a promise. It will not take the victims of Sandy long to wonder why the nation re-elected Obama.
NavyChief24 -
Normally, I would just say "thank you for your service" and leave it at that. But the glee with which you're predicting your country's failure and the disrespect you show for the Commander in Chief makes me wonder if you ever really served at all. In addition, I'll bet your sister really enjoyed her bullying brother when you were growing up.
But the main thing is - people like you have been making the same dire predictions for four years now. When are you finally going to open your eyes and look around and realize that THEY'RE JUST NOT HAPPENING?
Rick-3416939: "Obama has already forgotten all about the victims of Sandy and the massive suffering going on"
Forgive me if I wait to hear Chris Christie say that before I believe it. Unlike you, he actually talks to the President. You have no idea what the President is thinking or doing. And by the way, he just won New Jersey by 17 or 18 points.
Rick-3416939
You are spot on. The east coast is already screaming that FEMA has disappeared. Good for photo ops Obama but then everyone had to go home. Had to make sure they were back home to vote. Of course we can't wait for the Military to get their vote in from overseas but I bet they got the Military votes that were Democrat here in time but the Republican votes were on the slow boat...
NavyChief24
The country is already split and I worry about the final outcome. Reports about increase firearm sales etc. is scarey, especially for older widows like me with kids not close. I'm afraid the anger is esculating from name calling to something worse. I just want to see a President that is going to try to bring us back together as Americans not political parties and Obama didn't do it the first time around and I don't think he will this time. God help us to find peace and love again.
Mike: I guess I was saying the electoral college is broken, but that wasn't really my point, nor was it with the popular vote either. I was against the red state-blue state backbiting you see here. We all live together with only small shifts one way or the other from county to county. We shouldn't be demonizing each other with stereotypes.
@JoAnne in Pa#2.28: Agree with you. "Navy Chief24" is a Pricky Toady.
It is unbelievable to me how little people actually thought about what Obama said:
“People that have done well like me, can afford to pay a little more”
Did he? He had no rent, nor transportation costs, no vacation costs, no food costs, no insurance costs, no electric bill, etc., and yet, did he pay one dime more than he should have? NO, he simply said one thing and did another.
“We need to level the playing field”
Can anyone tell me of how the field isn’t level? Anyone could go to any school in the country if they work hard enough. Obama is proof that anyone can do anything, EVEN BECOME THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES TWICE.
If you take every dime from the “one percent” you run the government for less than two months, and you have just added the “one percent” to the welfare rolls.
This election came down to one thing, “free” stuff. The people receiving it don’t care who pays for it, because they know its not them. The people paying, were convinced that “we have to help the less fortunate”
I am done, This country just died with this election. In 4 years, there will be more on welfare, and more in debt, and more people that have no desire to better themselves, living off those that can no longer support them, and ourselves.
Remember this quote, “democracy is destined to fail as soon as the people begin voting benefits for themselves without considering whether the country as a whole can afford those benefits.”
I'm just waiting to see if that clown is going to be dead or in jail like he promised.
This time round progressives had better not sit on their hands or button their lips. Time to keep the elected democrats to hold up their end of the bargain and do what they were voted in to do, and it begins with taking social security, medicare and medicaid and the public safety nets off the table. These are not bargaining chips.
The people have spoken by their votes and all they have had to go through to get to and to vote, and they are saying it is time to do away with the Bush era tax breaks and subsidies, refunds etc and other corporate welfare for the rich and corporations. Trickle down economics did not work back during the Reagan/Bush and the Bush/Chaney years. The middle class and the poor were the ones who were harmed and are being harmed when and with the Wall street/financial folks skrew up and the rubbishing of the economy.
If people are 'wanting stuff' as the republiconseravaTeas and Faux folks state, then some of the stuff people want would be to have the hawkish polititians know/realize that they are tired of these polititians and their cohorts peering into their bedrooms and over their doctors shoulders in or at their Ob/gyns exam room or looking up their skirts and or into their medicine cabinets trying to take away their contraceptives etc.
They are wanting the wars and the rumors of wars and the nation building in other countries while the USA infrastructure falls apart and jobs keep being outsourced overseas amoung other things, to stop. People want a level field, pay equity and pay rises and fairness, and they want to stop feeling afraid or fearful that they may lose everything including their young to battle fields yet again.
They also want those who have sacrificed and are sacrificing so much on the field of battle to be cared for whatever their needs may be, and that there should be a draft before any other war is declared. Let everyone including the rich and well connected bear the pain and sacrifice of seeing their childen or relatives etc go off to war/front line for a change.
Lots more could be noted about what the many citizens who waited in line for hours to vote want but will just state this..... aside from the fact that healthcare should be a right not a priviledge and folks should not have to depend on charitable organizations for healthcare as Medicare For All should be the norm in this 1st world country..... but that people should not be made to feel like feel like a criminal or unwanted or disrespected in their own country no matter what their ethnicity or religious or sexual preference etc are or how poor they may be.
So folks hope you do not think that just because you voted and you got the result you wanted that that was enough. 2010 proved that that was not enough. Reminders to the political leaders of what the majority of the people "wants" are, are going to come in very handy in the days and years ahead so the democrats do not forget their platform or their campaign promises and duty to the electorate.
Just musing.....
Peace...... love ..... respect......charity..... hope...... happiness......care.....share......
www.slashthestache.com
It started as a bet between David Axelrod and MSNBC's Joe Scarborough. If Mitt Romney won Pennsylvania, Michigan or Minnesota, Axelrod would shave his moustache (he's had it for over 40 years). If President Obama won Florida or North Carolina, Scarborough would grow a moustache.
Well, to settle the bet and raise money for Epilepsy research, go to www.slashthestache.com. If they raise $1,000,000 Axelrod (who has a daughter with Epilepsy) will shave his moustache.
I donated. Are you in?
Da Noid-
Sounds like a great cause. I'll see what I can do.
This Friday, I will be donating another round to the Red Cross for my friends and Family on the East Coast due to Hurricane Sandy.
They got snow last night on top of flood, fire, and famine.
Salud
"Hijinx12", what bitter little person you have to be to respond like that.
For the record, I predicted Scarborough would weasel out of his 'bet'. At least it will cost him some cash, right?
What is it with men and facial hair bets?
Even though it will mean fewer holiday presents and decorations, and even though my husband's cancer has lots of co-pays, I gave more to the Red Cross than to the political campaigns' "urgent" requests.
Everybody should give to charity in some form; otherwise, the hyper-expensive campaign caused by unfair "Citizens United" super-PACs will have no meaning at all.
I am Democrat, and most of the candidates and issues that I agree with won in my area. But I am not happy at all; I am sad, wrung out, and very distrustful of our system that now forces citizens to put hundreds of dollars each into campaigns to try to counter the millions that a few donate. This is so wrong. I hope that Pres. Obama can put better Supreme Court Justices in when some of these retire.
The Salvation Army and all the various Missions are doing a great job up there too. Help if you can. Please!
Shout out to Senator Patty Murray.
She lead the Dem reelection committee in the Senate.
Dems will have 55 seats in the Senate ( if King caucuses with the Dem).
We now have 20 women Senators. When Murray ws first elected there were only three women Senators.
Senator Murray will have lots to say about how the lame duck Congress will deal with the taxes about to expire and the spending cuts that are ready to begin in Jan.
Soon men will have to make special deals for flex time so that they can go home and cook.
Northstar -- Women will make the difference and the world will become a better place because of that. About time!
We need more Senators like Patty Murray. And a lot of House of Representatives.
Author Robert Heinlein suggested that we place a 200 year moratorium on male participation in the political process, as we men were allowed to screw things up for the first two-hundred years...
Looks like the Democrats will add seven or 8 seats in the house, so my;
incumbent wins
Democrats puck up 2 seats in the Senate
and a "handful" in the House.
I am satisfied that 7 would constitute a handful...
Out here in "the real Washington", we're pretty fond of our Senator Murray, the Mom in Tennis Shoes- and don't let's forget Maria Cantwell! She was the last holdout for the 'public option' during the healthcare-overhaul hearings. When we finally do get around to moving to a fully socialized single-payer system, like those that have been working very well, thank you, for all of the world's most advanced nations, maybe we should name it after Sen. Cantwell. Of course, if Hillary picks either one of our Senators as her running mate, I'll bust my hump to get them elected- the only conceivable downside would be that we'd have to find somebody to fill their (tennis) shoes, and that won't be easy to do!
BCWC: House husband? Hum, nah, families need two incomes. But, it was a thought.
Dangerfield, Heinlein also said a generation which ingores history has no past-no future. its deja vu all over again eh.
“A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness. Bad manners. Lack of consideration for others in minor matters. A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot...”
R. Heinlein
touche'.
Dangerfield -- We'll take those seats! I think that author is most wise, politically speaking. Ha.
Fox -- You live in one my favorite states. Thanks for that thoughtful perspective. Carry on, friend.
BSWC-
Awesome! Where do I sign up? I love to cook...open a bottle of wine, fire up the grill/oven/stove, I'm in heaven!
Dangerfield. Your Heinlein quote is insightful. In his worst of nightmares, he would not be able to create characters as devious and evil as the Feisty Mafiosi. But "A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot." I grok it!
as we men were allowed to screw things up for the first two-hundred years...
I find it sad to think that the men who created the greatest country in the world are now viewed as "Screwing it up".
Pretty sure women had a lot to do with creating this country. Are they the only ones who did anything right for the first 200+ years?
You don't really believe that do you DF?
WCA-
The author of the quote is responsible for it's content and sentiment. He's dead.
I suggest not taking everything to heart and understanding the time honored practice of poetic and/or literary license...
The Founding fathers believed that only white male property owners were entitled to the vote. It took around 150 years for those women you credit with helping create the nation, to actually have a say in who was elected to legislate. I think that from his perspective (50 years ago for that quote) that Heinlein was well within both his rights and the bounds of reason in his comment. It is hard to grasp why you failed to see both the obvious HUMOR in his comment, and the merit.
Before you criticize Heinlein, i suggest you read him. In fact I suggest everyone read more than they write, and "Starship Troopers, or Stranger in a Strange Land" wouldn't be bad places to start...Although my personal favorite is "The Door into Summer"...
good point WCA.
dangerfield -
My Heinlein favorites are the fantastic 'Time Enough for Love' and 'Glory Road'.
When I was younger I dreamed of a beautiful woman from another world taking me away to fight for her....meeting my wife came pretty darn close to fulfilling that fantasy.
and the book was far better than the crappy movie.
Well DF, I know you didn't say it, but typically when one uses a quote, it is because one believes the words.
If you think that it took 150 years for women to have a say in how this country was built (or legislated), you have a pretty low opinion of the influence of women on men.
Color me jaded. I have grown tired of being told how evil white men are. Really don't think it's funny.
The book is almost always superior to the movie...any book, any movie...but especially Sci-Fi...
WCA-
Spoken like a guilt-ridden white guy lol
Go find the quote, read some of the author's work and stop trying to make up a spurious argument.
Having the vote is having a VOICE
Octavian ruled Rome but Livia ruled Octavian...still it isn't the same thing.
Di you really deny the political repression of women prior to women's suffrage? That's a pretty unique belief.
Robert Heinlein is considered to be a CONSERVATIVE libertarian cynic
No white guilt here DF. Tiresome rhetoric is just that.
You chose the quote, I assume, to make a point. Don't get upset with me for pointing it out. Seems to me we had a conversation about generalizations just a short time ago.
I wasn't alive 150 or even 50 years ago.
I don't deny anything.
You, however, seem to be denying the fact that for centuries, whether they had the vote or not, that women influence the way men think, feel and act more than any other factor on the planet.
exactly but superior doesnt describe the book vs movie in the case of Starship troopers.
how about Agrippina? or Irene? How bout Bettsy Ross? THEODORA!
How about them?...
To deny the subjugation of women by men is to believe that the Gods were born of Zeus' head!...-
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I don't disagree about "troopers, I found the movie to be crap. "Puppet Masters" is even more unrecognizable IMO...
I am sort of grateful that there is no movie version of Methuselah's Children or "The Man Who Sold The Moon" etc...let alone "Stranger", which was supposed to "Soon to be a major motion picture", according to a paperback I have from NINETEEN SEVENTY_FOUR lol
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WCA-
I just think you're being silly, how could I get upset about that? Influence and POWER are sort of different.
I know you recognize the difference, and that you know I can also...
I love it when a group of men essentially agree (somewhat).
Just a few months ago, women were sluts. Now we are Betsy Ross, other than the flag, she made ammo.
Women built this country, vote or no vote.
but what about the ones I mentioned. albeit not the norm for the average women so i suppose you can say my point is moot. Influence can equal power.
by whose account? the media? republicans? democrats?
An average woman who is married uses birth control, but somehow to Rush Limbaugh a young woman that testified that birth control is a necessary part of medical insurance was a slut. Lots of women need hormones to regulate their bad periods caused by plastics in water supplies. And lots of unkind things about women were repeated in Republican rants over the next few months; interesting that Akin, Mourdock, et al were not elected. Unfortunately Ryan was to Congress, but that may reflect his local district; he is not a Senator.
Caesar-
While in many historical circumstances, influence and power are interchangeable, all of the CAESARS were men, though several were equal opportunity um, daters...and a horse had a better chance of being consul...lol
All-in-all having overt influence is real power, otherwise those brave pioneer women who built this country would have been able to 'influence" their husbands to include the in the democratic process from the get-go...
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it was said that Caligula planned to make Incitatus a consul, and that the horse would "invite" dignitaries to dine with him in a house outfitted with servants there to entertain such events.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incitatus
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Suggested viewing/reading
http://www.pbs.org/stantonanthony/
depends on the source, im inclined to believe Caligula just liked to rouse the aristocracy, after all the senate was beneath contempt in his view. It would explain why he NEVER made his favorite horse consul. After all his philosphy was let them hate me as long as they fear me.
i wouldnt necessarily say that. Again look into Theodora and Justinian. She was pretty influencial and if it werent for her, no Holy Wisdom. Hindsight is 20/20 so its easy to make claims of woulda coulda shoulda.
In short both you and WCA are right in your own ways.
Let us not forget Eve.
or "Lilith"...
White Collar Auto and Caesar Augustus-.......
You two (at least) are commended for having courage to remain here using your pre-election screen names.
Your party leaders and (discredited) conservative pundits don't have the luxury to slip away from public view. You could do so.
Hopefully, progressives here will not be too hard on you. We can imagine how we might feel if President Obama had not won. After all, 2010 is not so long ago. But, we knew from 2009 through 2010, we were likely to take a drubbing at the polls if we aggressively pushed our agenda (particularly healthcare). We knew, also, it was both the right thing to do and hugely overdue. So, confident in our cause, we took our 2010 consequences in stride. It is good you seem to be doing likewise.
blackcatwhitecat,
Hilarious, you think the Republican men can look good too while cooking dinner?
Enough of the "End of Days" talk, Republicans. Enough of the upside-down American flags and tombstones for the United States. If Tuesday's election results have shaken your faith in this nation then you probably didn't have much faith with which to start.
DaNoid,
My Tea Party relative informs me the government has a special unit trained to put down domestic resurrections. He is convinced he can be spied on through his webcam, (so, he put duct tape over the camera.)
And he's one of the more normal ones! Although, I'm not sure that's saying much.
Many right-wingers have pantries almost the size of a Mom and Pop store. There is a whole community of them online who enjoy trading tips on preparing for Armageddon. These aren't bad people, or terrorists, but they have very elaborate fantasies about the government. I don't think the msm has any idea these people exist.
Further proof, Amy, that we can help get ourselves out of our economic troubles if more people went into the business of manufacturing tinfoil hats.
Hi Amy, I have spoken with some of these people, and they feel that President Obama was going to place them in FEMA camps, in order to hold power.
...and don't forget that President Obama was going to find some way to suspend elections.
Amy, we used to have one that regularly posted here. He predicted Obama would declare Martial Law and cancel the elections. He stock piled salt, wrapped in tin foil, and buried the salt cakes in his super-special Bank of Salt vault. I wonder how much money the Albanian liquidated from the stock market to invest in the Bank of Salt vaults.
At least they have one more event to look forward too - the end of the Mayan calendar on 12/21/2012. On 12/22/2012, there are going to be a lot of grumpy campers out there .. their loss on 11.06 and the failure to rapture on 12.21 may be more than they can handle in two months. Talk about utterly defeated.
We could gloat, make fun of the republican party and their members but we must be mindful of the fact that the Democratic party is bending backwards to pander to the Latinos and blacks to the detriment of the United States. If the democratic party continues to favor illegal over legal, immoral over moral, poor over rich, hate over love, hispanics and blacks over whites, disunity over unity; we will be doomed as a county. So as we celebrate the obama's win, lets also focus on the direction of our country and what is best for our country.
On cue, I'm sure gun sales are going to be up as well.
Salud
Zoo has African Lion
White House has Lying African.
Proud bigot, Man?
Hasn't shaken my faith. Actually, it does make perfect sense if you study Bible prophecy. In the end times, when the Muslim nations gather together for their final assault on Israel (which will fail due to God's direct intervention), the United States is not even mentioned as a player, which means this Nation, as much as I hate to see it after serving it for 24 years, must implode. Obama is just the man for the job.
There are a lot of interesting beliefs, because America has freedom of religion.
Res ligio: The thing (res) that you tie yourself to (ligio).
I love the Bible, and I read it. Referring to the end times, our Lord says that at that time the nations (either tribes or political divisions as we define nations) will be judged based on their charity, according to the Gospel of St. Matthew 25: 31-46. It is more important to help others than it is to stockpile for yourself. Just before this teaching, our Lord warns against stockpiling in the Parable of the Talents: St. Matthew 25:14-30, especially verses 25-27, "And being afraid I went and hid thy talent in the earth: behold here thou hast that which is thine. And the lord answering, saith to him: Wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sow not, and gather where I have not strewed: Thou oughtest therefore to have committed my money to the bankers, and at my coming I should have received my own with usury."
The only thing that shows one nation or tribe "immoral" compared to another is that those who are immoral do not feed, clothe, house, or heal the poor. That's it. And if the world should end 12/21/2012 (or on any other calendar date, old, new, or to come), the test of faith and hope in the Lord will be in how we have delivered the Lord's CHARITY. Like the virgins with the oil lamps (beginning of St. Matthew chapter 25), we must watch and wait, but the wise virgins waited with lamps full of oil, not empty vessels that were unkind and afraid of their neighbors.
In a country full of republican men, a Virgin with a lamp full of oil will not remain a virgin long.
If you had, in fact, studied biblical prophecy, you would know the biggest problem of your statements.
The Book of the Revelation of St. John the Divine mentions nothing of Muslims. Why not? Because there were no Muslims when it was written sometime during the First Century AD. The Islamic prophet Muhammad isn't even born until approximately 500 years later.
If you are going to claim some kind of biblical prophecy is being fulfilled perhaps you should first understand the Bible a little better.
But they all had dinosaurs as pets, right?
Cheer Up, Republicans
You're going to have a moderate Republican president for the next four years: Barack Obama
I get great pleasure in knowing that the fat cats such as the Koch Brothers spent millions of dollars and failed in their attempt to buy America. Way to go Karl Rove and Fox Noise.
We get 4 More For 44!
Job1 - agreed, there is nothing more satisfying than watching tight-wad GOP billionaires blow through millions on useless hot-air advertising efforts.
Ok, there is one thing more satisfying .. watching Rove stumble and mumble as he tries to explain how he managed to blow through those millions with no results. Do the right hire hit-squads when the money handlers lose it all?
especially that windbag TRUMP !
We Now Return to our Regularly Scheduled Programming.Thank heaven the election is over. The phones are silent, the nonstop TV ads replaced with ads trying to sell us something we probably do not need. Peace, quiet, it is almost deafening. No 3-4 Romney/Ryan robots calling me any more every day, and calling back because I hung up on them the first and second times they called. For the first time in months, I do not have to go anywhere. This weekend, I won't spend 10 hours a day at OFA, which I thoroughly enjoyed. I can watch Hawkeye football Saturday and NFL football Sunday. I can watch an old movie!
Back to the regularly scheduled programming in Congress, too. Speaker Boehner sounded conciliatory yesterday afternoon unless you heard him repeat the same, tired lie about raising taxes on the rich 4% will kill 700,000 jobs and hurt small business. 97% of small business won't be touched by that raise in taxes but never mind facts; facts are disposable to the GOPTP. Millionaires can afford donating $40 bucks per thousand they earn. If Adelson can spend $70 million on Mitt Romney, he can pay an extra $40,000 per million in income to help rebuild this country. If the Koch boys can spend millions on Mitt and GOPers, they could give a raise to their employees which would be tax deductible; that would boost economic growth and would be far more patriotic than spending millions to keep their own taxes low.
McConnell's statement sounded like it was the GOP who tried to compromise for the last 4 years--never mind the GOP filibustered everything, including filibustering the AJA and the Veterans' Job Act; never mind McConnell's #1 goal was to defeat President Obama. It's "Ground Hog Day".
Message to the GOPTP: you lost, you may have retained the House but you lost seats in the House. You lost seats in the Senate. You lost the Presidency. YOU LOST, the GOPTP does NOT have a mandate. Democrats and President HAVE a mandate. Democrats hold 2 of the 3 slots. The Constitution does not give the minority the rule. GOPTP, YOU LOST. Now, look up the word compromise. It does not say--democrats must do what republicans want.
It is nice to see things getting back to normal, isn't it Jody---except the part where the GOP is still afraid of the Tea Party base and Grover Norquist. None of them will stand up and say--I'm going to do what it right, and what is right is to compromise and address these issues. It is sad to me that they are so afraid of losing their jobs that they don't do their jobs.
So true Steeler.....the "tail has been and will continue to wag the dog"......
I hope that someday we will see a republican in office stand up to the Tea Bag base and Grover Norquist, and tell them where they can go.
no---it means both sides have to compromise---not just Republicans
Zoo has African Lion
White House has Lying African.
Man of Steel
The problem is still the same. Angry, ignorant bigots like you and Joe in Albany ARE the problem. You can't see past the end of your noses. Fools like you are exactly why the Republicans lost this election. And, you still don't get it. Nobody with half a brain would want to be on the same side with losers like you. Life must be loads of fun for you two negative clowns and I bet when people see you coming they run the other way. All you do is whine and complain. Negative, negative, negative. Joe is the most disrespectful, despicable individual I've ever seen and you're a very close second. I haven't yet figured out if Joe is a racist although it certainly appears that way but you are definitely a racist pig. Just come right out and say it or maybe you're not the "Man of Steel" but a wimpy gutless piece of garbage. I think that's more likely. Hey the bright side for you two morons is that you now get to snivel and whine for four more years. PRESIDENT OBAMA sounds great doesn't it. Choke on it!
Your side gets the welfare queens, the drug addicts, the people who won't get off the sofa and the uninformed and we get the hardworking, smart and resourceful business owners, those with integrity and those who worship god. Look at Obama, his campaign was based on lies and distortion. Romney had many opportunities to smear Obama, but chose not to stoop to his level. I respect that. I'll take our side any day. By the way, the business you listed will be off shoring soon.
I hope the GOP blocks everything Obama wants and they will probably. Compromise doesn't mean the Republicans have to do whatever the Demo's want, put that in your pipe and smoke it. They've blocked most things the last 2 years already. King Obama is stuck with 4 years of nothing.
from above: Zoo has African Lion. White House has Lying African. We have coons in the white house.
Mitt who ?
"Look at Obama, his campaign was based on lies and distortion."
Aw, look at katie5555 projecting her own lying candidate's actions onto our honorable President. Obama's got more integrity in one fingernail than Mitt and Lyin Ryan have between the both of them.
It is a certified fact that Romney lied a bare minimum of 12 times during his 38 minutes of speaking time in the first debate.
Your candidate lied non-stop the entire campaign, well actually all through the primaries and before probably as well. It's why you dufuses lost. I guess Romney and Karl Rove forgot that people can use google now to see when they lie.
OBAMA 2012--2016
Zoo has African Lion
White House has Lying African.
joe in portsmouth, you also get to take the people who want stuff, but don't want to work for it with you. Because that's how obama won!!! You see we people who live by the constitution don't mind working because we love our freedom. In a few years you will lose all of your'es from people like the obamas and clintons who have a clear objective. To join the one world nation of the united nations and the bilderburgs world. Then you will be extinquished to get the world population down. You see we free people aren't gonna give into the ways of the united nations, the obamas and clintons because they want us paying 60% taxes and acting like little puppets!@!! Not gonna happen on our side of the country, we love the 1st and 2nd amendments that allow us to keep the rest of our constitutional freedoms!!!! You will lose your'es!!!!
See ya dumbazz!!!!!
Man of Putty
How many times are you going to post the exact same idiotic garbage? I'd say your brain is stuck but that would imply that you actually had a brain which is extremely questionable.
Great new faces in the Senate. So longer Lieberman. You backstabber.
... and good riddance! Old Joe did some good things in his time, but the last couple of years it was becoming increasingly obvious that he was a.) going gaga and b.) willing to sink to any depth to keep his seat, his perks, and to keep seeing his name in the papers. With his wife being a major player for the HMOs, he was becoming the poster boy for conflicts of interest. Connecticut can and will give us much better in future.
I see Mass. also replaced that lying republican RINO scott brown with an actual democrat. I knew a real republican couldn't come out of Taxachussetts.
... which explains how y'all wound up with Romney- if he's a real Republican then I'm the Archbishop of Puyallup. Right Tim 58?
A lot of interesting postmortems from both sides of the election, but the common theme is...
"adapt or die"
The President has a "golden moment" if not the honeymoon that existed before the internet and the 24 hour news cycle, what will he do with it? The opposition is making conciliatory sounds, but how genuine are they, and can they even deliver their own somewhat divided party if they broker any significant agreement(s)?
The biggest impediment to compromise on the budget, and the fiscal cliff is the inability of the opposition to COMPROMISE, because of a pledge that removes one of the two mechanisms available to affect the deficit.
If you can only do one thing, cut the budget, you remove any leverage or negotiating room that may exist.
In order to achieve a "Grand Bargain" that puts the US on at least on the road to a more stable fiscal policy, the President MUST address this failing in his negotiating partners and lay the responsibility for compromise at their doorstep. He must address the nation this month and be the GREAT COMMUNICATOR, explaining that we are at a "tipping-point, where we can either move ahead and realign our fiscal policies for the 21st century, or remain mired in the current partisan morass. He must explain that we must cut spending, amend and reform entitlements and raise additional revenues. That without this THREE PRONGED policy there is no way that we can succeed.
He must emphasize that with this 3 pronged policy, there is no way that we can FAIL.
It is time for the President to LEAD on this most central issue. The sooner he does it the better. If he fails to seize the day, we will all be the worse for it and everything else that may be in the administrations plans will be impacted.
Republicans make thier own beds then cry when the bed is wet. You lost because your party is out of touch, insincere, dishonest, righteous, entitled and simply lost in space.
No substance what so ever. Just pokes and jabs at the winning team. Thats all they have. Thats all they had the whole election process. They cant tell us about how or what theyll do to help America because they dont give a rats arse about anything but thier own Swiss Bank Accts.
I say good riddance to bad smelly putrid garbage.
ZOO has African Lion.
White House has Lying African.
One item you may have missed in all of the good election news, California now has a 2/3 majority of Democrats in the State House. This means no more budget obstruction by the GOP, budgets will be on time. Funds can be raised if needed to do business in the state. Now, we can really get down to work getting California's economy humming again. We have made the GOP as irrelevant as their awful policies. Soon, they will be small enough to stuff into a redwood hot tub.
Some "Firsts" you might have missed from Tuesday's election...
- Senator-Elect Mazie Hirono of Hawaii will become the first Buddhist to serve in United States Senate.
- Representative-Elect Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii will become the first Hindu to serve in United States Congress.
And Senator Heidi Heitkamp (D) North Dakota is the first woman in the state elected to that position.
Congratulations Heidi! Sometimes, just being well liked, and having a happy personality, and caring about people does more than all of Karl Rove's personal attacks. He ran them against Heidi and lost!
The changing face of America is exciting to so many of us but so scary to others. They need to look around and see where the country is going. Every time someone in the GOP says "take our country back" they create another Democrat.
Another first..
PA just elected its first woman Attorney General.
I am absolutely amazed at the amount of juice drinkers we have here...all gloating about the election. You are obviously not a diabled vet, government worker or clear headed but right on, because at some point others will see you for how you think and not be around you because of it.
What about Benghazi (oh, you think the president had nothing to do with that subject)
What about the Fast and the Furious (oh, again, never mond)
What about ST6? (Oh you see nothing wrong with the CIC capitalizing on exploiting the secretive world that most of you know nothing about [pssss by the way I was an operator])
What about the deficit (wait, he inherited that right?)
Black and white the proof is there and now our society will not be able to recover from his garbage. Facts came out and all of his zombie followers came out to play....over the cliff you go...like lemmings! You reap what you sow, alway remember that.
Zoo has African Lion
White House has Lying African.
It's Great to see tea baggers such as Allen West and dead beat dad Joe Walsh saying bye bye.