So he hits Obama and not Lyin' Ryan?

I guess this is like the $716 B that is ok for Ryan's 'budget', but not Obama's.

The duplicity of Wrongme's campaign is obvious - to some.

Starderup,

As you say, Ryan identified the same $716 billion as President Obama. But Ryan immediately LIED about it, and victimized millions of seniors -- as SOON as he was nominated.

However, the President cut it from fraud and waste in the system, and put that money back into strengthening Medicare.

By contrast, Ryan voucherizes Medicare and puts the burden of payment on seniors. Later, they will be haggling in the open shark market for health care coverage.

Romney vows to end Obamacare. Doing so will end Medicare by 2016. Ryan's plan cuts Medicaid by one-third. Ending the ACA, will also end Medicaid.

Condoleeza Rice came out in support of President Obama, and the Libya meme.

Ms. Rice, as former Secretary of State, knows that Intel. is something that comes, fluctuates, and has to be patiently followed down.

Ambassadors put themselves at risk, and there were many attacks and a similar death on GWB's watch.

MANY attacks during Reagan's presidency.

(BTW in 2012, the Navy fleet is unrecognizable from ships fighting in the Spanish Armada. They are about 200 times faster and can stay out X times longer. You don't need many, and the JOINT CHIEFS said NO to Romney's demand of $2 trillion more for the NAVY.)

Greetings Romney-Ryan-Rovian denigrater of human beings:

Change the subject, attack/lie, reverse finger-point much?

Early voting is convenient for working folks and not-working folks ALIKE.

So - you're a Romney/Ryan/AynRander-er, who gets off on the "Moocher" meme".

"Obama has resorted to begging for votes"

• As opposed to Flip-Flop Mitt taking 5 different positions on a two positions issue -- depending on who he's talking to at the time.

Romney has a 5 trillion dollar tax cut he won't tell us how to pay for and wants to keep 2 trillion in spending with the military.

How are you going to pay for 7 trillion Romney and reduce the deficit.

Oh yeah, and you won't raise middle class taxes right?

Pure fantasy.

UM, MYTH, Do you recall that horses and bayonets are too complex for you to grasp?

But see Bev, in Myths mind...our troops would be armed with those bayonets when they emerge from the nuclear sub, or leave (not fly off) the aircraft carrier.......

See, he cares...No, no he does not.......he only sees a way to make/steal then hide more money!

"You may recall in our most recent debate I made the point that our Navy is now smaller than any time well, in almost a hundred years,

We might be smaller but we are still by far the mightiest sir. He must of gotten Rmnesia and forgot the point Obama made, I have historically beeen against miltary cuts, but there are room for cuts. Clinton helped improve the economy by dipping into the war chest, and we are none the worse for it.

The United States Navy currently operates eleven aircraft carriers. The oldest and least capable is faster, one third larger, and carries three times the aircraft of Admiral Kuznetsov, the largest carrier in the Russian Navy. Unlike China’s only aircraft carrier, the former Russian Varyag, American carriers have engines and are capable of self-propulsion. The only carrier in Indian service is fifty years old and a quarter the size of its American counterparts. No navy besides the United States' has more than one aircraft carrier capable of flying modern fixed wing aircraft. The United States enjoys similar dominance in surface combat vessels and submarines, operating twenty-two cruisers, fifty destroyers, fifty-five nuclear attack submarines, and ten amphibious assault ships (vessels roughly equivalent to most foreign aircraft carriers). In every category the U.S. Navy combines presumptive numerical superiority with a significant ship-to-ship advantage over any foreign navy.

Yes lets add more!! lol Our Navy is fine

Thomas Blue - Are a friend of Lil Abner?

Just cast my early vote for President Obama here in the great State of Florida

Waited in line for 3 hours and worth every minute of it!

I voted by mail two days ago. Not only for Obama but a straight Democrat vote for the first time since 96. Even my Republican Congressman is not getting my vote this time. Eight years with his broken promise of trying to be moderate has left me done with him too.

Anyone notice Fox News is now showing Mitt's full campaign events? Someone must be worried.

Congrats Sreeming Lib,

We are going to move FORWARD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

We have seen the result of the last decade of GWB/GOP/Romney top-down, 1%-er policies. They brought the U.S and the globe to the very brink of collapse by shifting massive amounts of money to the top. And allowing the very rich to pay low or zero taxes = no revenue.

NOW, the International Monetary Fund says the U.S. will be the STRONGEST fiscally, of ALL the rich world economies over the next few years.

Thanks to President Obama's policies and determination.

THE U.S. IS COMING BACK, AND NO THANKS to the GOP obstructionists.

The problem at the booths may be some will not know these truths.

Let us hope the people do their homework, and not just vote on the past.

We are light years ahead of other countries as far as military capabilities. We need to keep our edge,and not let others catch up to us, this does not mean we have to add ships at present. Nor at the pace Romney suggest.

Still trying to figure out what cuts he's talking about. Maintaining current spending with small yearly increases doesn't sound like a cut to me.

Oh, is he talking about the sequester cuts that the House proposed, hasn't happened yet and Obama (and all the other insiders) give exactly a zero chance of happening? Why, that makes Romney's statement only a 99% slimy lie. He's getting better.

BLAME the right wing SCOTUS for GIANT corporate-transnational, unlimited, secret money in politics.

BLAME THEM for passing Citizens' United in 2010.

This means covert, secret cash - without limits - from FOREIGN ENTITIES in the United States presidential election at levels previously unimagined. Expensive, dangerous whoppers.

Romney donors like billionaire Sheldon Adelson, will get a $2.3 billion tax cut under his plan.

Don't forget the Koch brothers. They stand to gain 21.7 billion. What's a hundred million to buy a President?

Mitt Romney has to run for president on earth because kolob wants nothing to do with him

VOTE ROBME/RYAN 2012

. SO WE CAN FIX ASIA'S JOBS PROBLEM!!!

VOTE ROMNEY/RYAN 2012!!!

.... BECAUSE EVEN A NEOCON DESERVES A SECOND CHANCE!!!

( WE'D NEVER CRASH THE PLANE INTO THE MOUNTAIN AGAIN. NOW WE KNOW WHERE IT IS!)

VOTE RMONEY/RYAN 2012!!!!

BECAUSE BEING A REPUGNICON MEANS NEVER HAVING TO SAY YOU'RE SORRY!!!

(IT'S EVERYONE ELSE'S FAULT)

According to a poll, a majority of people across the world wants Barack Obama to be re-elected as United States’ next president against his Republican challenger Mitt Romney. Pakistan was the only country among 21 countries being questioned for the survey that wanted to see Romney as winner in November 6 elections. Obama received strongest support from France with a 72% approval rating.

A total of 21,797 people have been questioned for the survey. Out of whom, 50% supported Obama, while only 9% favored Romney. GlobeScan/PIPA carried out the survey for the BBC World Service between July 3 and September 3 before the start of TV debates between presidential candidates

Well on second thought we might need to add those ships if Romney is elected.lol I doubt we will if Obama is elected. I have stated many times Romney does not have the respect of the world, and that Obama does. Romney has already rubbed countries the wrong way in an effort to look tough to Americans.Until his advisors pulled back on his reigns ,which was obvious at the last debate. Obama has used much more ation than words the past four years, the world takes him seriously and knows he is a fair man, at the same time noone to mess with.

If Romney invcreases military spending $2 billion to benefit his coporate interests in defense contracting companies, that is just throwing money away!

Obama is keeping it about the same, and the wars are drawing to a close.

Romney would be a complete disaster in the White House!!

VOTE ROMNEY/RYAN IN 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T BEEN TRICKLED DOWN ON ENOUGH LATELY!!

WE'RE GONNA TRICKLE YOUR FANCY!!!

"I believe in a modern Navy. That’s why my plan is to increase the number of ships we’re building to maintain our strong commitment to our military,"

Romney continues, "I also believe in continued deficit spending like I accuse my opponent of doing. However, those will help my defense contractor buddies who will get even more rich off of the backs of the American taxpayers. Because, lord knows, we don't pay them!"

Bill C - Not to quibble, but Romney wants to increase military spending 2000 billion. However, they do not want to spend 1 billion to help veterans returning from the wars get jobs.

VOTE ROMNEY/RYAN 2012!!!!

BECAUSE SHELDON AND KOCH BROS AND ROVE TOLD YOU TO!!!

Has anyone added up how much all this new military hardware Romney wants will cost?

I thought Ryan said we couldn't afford Medicare anymore for people under 55.

Personally, I'd rather have Medicare than another 100 warships.

Hey, Thomas Blue. How about "Rape the planet. Vote Romney/Ryan"?

Jeff - I'm with you!

My ballot and one of my relative's are already in.

2 more votes for Obama!

Even if we have to do it one person at a time, we CAN show the corporations that REAL Americans still run this country!

From the NY Times:

There have been 11 administrations since Lyndon B. Johnson left office in 1969. The share of government jobs rose during five of the seven Republican administrations, and fell during each of the four Democratic ones.

And a GREAT page of data on job creation by President from the same source:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/09/14/business/The-Job-Score.html?ref=business

Best argument there is for not going back to the policies of the GOP:

Private Sector Payroll Employment

This was the CNN Money headline in Bush's last month of office:

Job loss: Worst in 34 years
Employers slashed 598,000 more jobs in January

Are we really going to vote for that again? Romney's tax plan was written by the same guy that wrote Bush's.

Damn right I'm happy about the last 4 years. The real question is, do you want 4 more like the last 4? Or 4 like the 8 before Obama?

The pace of creation of jobs in the private sector during the current administration is now greater than the pace in either of President George W. Bush’s terms in office.

Many people have said Mr Romney is a very nice man. I'm sure his family thinks so. However, as a candidate for President he is a disaster. He has clearly demonstrated that there is no principle he would not abandon, no lie he would not tell, no position he would hold without wavering. He is an empty suit flapping in the wind. He claims to be a staunch conservative, but has yet to show his true colors. He chooses words and phrases to fit the ears of his current audience, then changes when he sees a new group of faces.

I fear for our country if he even comes close to throwing his shadow over the oval office. He is deeply indebted to rich and powerful interests whose only objective is to funnel more public funds into their pockets. His obligation to their interests is and always has been counter to the ideals of the Constitution. He is a fraud, a propped up phony backed by a small group of wealthy privilege takers, who are trying to buy the power of Presidency with lies and misinformation.

The empty vacuity of thinking among Republican voters who consider his candidacy a legitimate option is astounding. Surely we have enough intelligent thoughtful citizens in this country who can see through the smoke-screen of empty phrases, and outright lies, to reject this useless bag of tricks in favor of a President who has made historic accomplishments in the face of mindlessly obstinate opposition. I approve his message.

What does that tell other countries. We will be left open for destruction, that's what.

You, without a doubt, have not a clue to how much we can do with even just half of our military.

Our enemies know they can get a 9/11 type event in on us every once and a while, but they know that's all they will ever be able to do. There is no doubt who the BMFIC is when it comes to military might.

There is far too much waste and corruption when it comes to the allocation of funds. No, not the $500.00 hammers. They are actually percision hammers used for a very specific application. I am talking about the politicians that secure funding for some type of weapon, that even the military doesn't want, just so their main contributor gets a nice fat defense contract.

In the Army at least, the Corps of Engineers might as well be deactivated. Politicians have managed to privatize construction projects on military installations. They have privatized everything in combat, sans the troops. They control the roles of the quartermaster, mess hall, supply, clerical, repair, delivery and many others. All of which we have actively trained members of the Armed Forces.

This foolishness has to stop.

All you Dems pointing to some of the positions that Ryan has taken in the past that do not align with Romneys have a good point.

The other good point is that Romney is Ryans boss and what he decides in terms of their policy positions are what goes...not what the VP's positions are.

Sorry folks. I know you are trying to spin it that way, but Mitt will be Ryans boss and that is how the real world works.

Defense cuts would cost Florida 41,000 jobs? You might want to wipe that poop smear off your crystal ball Mr. Robme so you can see the future a little more clearly. I can't believe anyone listens to anything this lying sack of sh@t says.

The other good point is that Romney is Ryans boss and what he decides in terms of their policy positions are what goes...not what the VP's positions are.

But there is precedent for me to think otherwise.

AS far as I am concerned, Cheney was the President during Bush's two terms.

Truth Conveyer -- Romney is indeed a controlling spoiled brat who likes to surround himself with yes men (please research "group think" during JFK in the Bay of Pigs versus the Cuban Missile Crisis), but what part of succession have you missed if Romney died (please see age and health questions above)? People were terrified at the thought that Sarah Palin was only a heart beat away, and the same goes for Paul Ryan. Or how Romney will always, ALWAYS appease those who are trying to put him in power and would try to keep him in power if he were to somehow get elected. Haunting.

NYMike -- Good point about Cheney (and might I add Karl Rove). I keep saying we know who Romney is by the things he says when he thinks no one is watching, and by the folks he pals around with -- Neocons, religious radicals, and voodoo economists.

Mitt Romney returned to a topic from last week's final presidential debate, slamming the president for proposed defense cuts and pushing his plan to expand the US naval fleet.

How quickly do the republicans get us into wars to keep the weapons mfgrs super rich? We pay over $1,200,000. annually to each soldier for military support to war hawk companies. And yet, that individual soldier is paid less than $40,000. to give his life, his family, his well being. Then, after these soldiers that come home, maimed, broken, needing quality care, and retraining, they are effectively tossed out like garbage and receive only minimal care--if at all.

If one goes to war to protect our way of life, giving their all for our country and it's citizens (all of us), upon return, they should be treated as well as any top entertainer or congressman or president is treated. We owe it to them.

So, what really happens? Willard wants to increase military funding and supports the 40 senators who refuse to, at the very least, provide jobs support for our returning soldiers. Here are 7 of the dirty 40:

Seven of the Republican senators who voted against jobs for vets are also high profile Mitt Romney surrogates. Rob Portman, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul, John McCain, Kay Bailey Hutchison, Lindsey Graham, and Kelly Ayotte all occupy high visibility positions in the Romney campaign, and they all voted against creating jobs for veterans.

They don't care for our military personnel, just the weapons mfgrs and their legal bribes (campaign contributions).

Obviously, Romney is desperate. He's playing a broken record of lies wherever the lie fits best.... goes right along with increasing horses while in Texas and bayonets while in Georgia.

Let's see... cut taxes by 20% to stimulate the economy... but give it all back by killing "loop holes"... and keep it even between the rich and the middle class so as to not offend anyone... exactly what did we just accomplish? Not a damn thing except make 2 plus 2 equal 6. But even if you make the math work, you just accomplished nothing relative to our economy except to disenfranchise sensitive areas like mortgages, charitable contributions, help for the middle class health care costs... oh yea, and to give the already rich a huge windfall with free capital gains.

What a plan. What a farce. What a liar.

I always was voting for Obama and now again I know why! Defense cuts are what we need or the $2,000,000,000,000 that Romney and Ryan want to give the Pentagon will just lead us into another war!

Stop the extreme Nazi Party ( republican) that has now been formed!

VOTE ROMNEY/RYAN 2012!!!

BECAUSE IT'S NOT A LIE IF YOU CAN CONVINCE YOURSELF IT'S TRUE!!

Blameing Obama for John Boehner's cuts? The sequestration was congress' doing not the President's.

I do have 1 thing to thank Romney for.

It's Halloween, flag pin, check. Campaign button, check. Dark suit, check. Expensive shoes, check. Greying temples ( ok more than just the temples) check. Property of K street sticker on back, check. White(r) Makeup, check. Binders full of women under my arm, check. Name tagg and I'm MITT ZOMBIE.

Thomas Blue;

I interpret what you write as being sarcastic and that you support Obama.

Have I got that right?

Please explain.

Romney is a fraud less then spineless his flip flopping is one major reason no one warmed up to him in the primary for the republican nomination and the only reason they even thought of going to him was after the first debate. We have had another three debate after that all won By Democrats but all you heard was the lie of trying to force a story down your throat about bull crap momentum that really was only the part of the republican party that was not going to vote because of Mitt now say they will but not because of Mitt but because of the hatred they have for the president.

Since We have won three debates in a row and the Comment about the 47 percent we are now seeing the bounce come back in favor of Obama but Romney is spending millions of his Koch and Rich CEO's money trying to get those 13 percent tax rates they pay knocked down another 20% to become part of the group Romney hates. His battleship is sunk and Romnesia is being cured despite the Millions they are pouring on the TV Ad's.computer ads, airwaves and flyers. Romney is going nuts thinking about how he is not going to make it and that he just supposed by telling non-stop lies and endless finds through his account and the numerous pac money operations he is commanding and its just not working. Utube just has too many videos of the flip flop mitt in action and using his own words against him just beats the hell out of his lies he tells you to your face.

Obama 2012 - Romney 1040

Road Ready

Big steel ships are not the future of our military.

Agreed. It isn't big versus small government, rather smart government that we need. The GOP and Romney just can't seem to join the 21st Century in regard to ANYTHING.

Newest lie from Romney. Jeep is going to China, he told crowds in Ohio. G.M. President said that is not true. Lie after lie after lie. Ohio, please don't get caught up in Romney/Ryan lies to get elected, just so you can lose your social security, vouchers for medicare, excess spending for millitary when we need that money here to fix up our country or pay down the debt.

There will be 4 in my family voting straight democratic ticket. Obama/Biden

Why in the world would we reward a party that has done nothing but stand in the way of this country's progress for the last 4 years for their own political gain?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/26/cia-operators-were-denied-request-for-help-during-benghazi-attack-sources-say/

the story General Electric aka MSNBC aka NBC refuses to cover

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL "Is Willard hitting President Obama on the very same defense cuts his running mate Lyin/Ryan voted for?"

The same ones that Obama signed into law.

Obama should try to run on his record. He can't.

BTW to all you Dems that go with the old "Ryan is one heart beat away from the POTUS position". If you think that is a bad thing, maybe you ought to take a look at the Granpa Joe Biden out-takes. LOLOLOLOLOL. That guy is truly a bag of hot air. LOLOLOLOL!

mike - We get it.

You're part of that 51% of Americans that the Associated Press found "express explicit anti-black attitudes".

Which also explains why you vote GOP.

To irrefutable facts:

Al Qaeda is alive.

Chris Stevens is dead.

The possible election of Mitt Romney will go far in further eroding the separation of large corporations and the state along with a dramatic increase in the wealth gap between the truly greedy and the rest of American citizens.

A vote for Obama may seem like a meaningless to many independents but he might be the best choice in order to preserve democracy over plutocracy within our nation.

The mere appointment of justices on the Supreme Court that could overturn the decision of Citizens United vs. Federal Election Commission would be worth it on its' own to vote for Obama.

We, as a people, need to ensure the growth and viability of our nation by voting out those whose agenda will be set to continue the shift in power, wealth and living standard to the fewest members of society while the majority suffer.

We owe to the men and women who fought so bravely to establish freedom and fairness by fighting for safe work conditions, a fair rate of pay and a decent standard of living; these are the things at stake in this election.

Ok all you women, why in the world would you vote for Romeny?? He is against equal pay, he will get rid of planned parenthood, also Roe vs Wade, we are just binders and the 47%. He wants to give more tax breaks to the wealthy, and I guarantee that the middle class will pay for that. He also wants to repeal Obama care, which in turn will eliminate Medicare(voucher system), Social Security. The only record Romney has is outsourcing American jobs to China, Mexico. Just look at what just happened in Freeport IL, this is a what the real Romney will do with jobs. There is no way he can realistically come up with 12 million jobs, the only jobs we will see are minimum wage jobs if we are lucky. Do some research, don't go by what he is saying, he keeps flip flopping all over the place, come women wake up and see the real Romney.

Obama will have your back, and that includes equal pay, jobs, Obama care(for our families, parents ect..), he is great on our military(record proves that), he actually knows what it is like to be part of the middle class, he was just that, as for Romney he has never and never will know what it means to struggle, he is all talk.

"He has anointed my income with more taxes. "

Tell us Jody --what federal taxes that you pay have increased? I'll bet you can't name a single one.

If military spending is cut 43% we would still be at the same amount we spent in 2003.

Romney stated at a fundraiser that he wants to quote - "Put black people back in chains". While that may be all well and good for the racists who hope to see that, keep in mind that he has also made it clear that he has complete contempt for anyone who who isn't a multimillionaire or a Mormon.

Read the news folks. We used to read about the third world countries where the UN had to go in and intervene in the election process. Now the United States has become one of those places. The rest of the world has determined that there is such a possibly that Romney and his thugs will rig the election and start a campaign of genocide against Americans that the UN has to intervene here.

Pretty pathetic that we'll have to depend on the French to come in and liberate us at some point in the future from this monster that some halfwits in our country support.

These are the professional pollsters

Only when they say what you want to hear, correct?

That's pretty much what you said. You just used more words than I did.

Risk1
Obama, will also create trillions more in US debt. When will Democrats end this insane spending spree by, Obama!

Remember America, Al Qaida is alive, and Ambassador Cris Stevens is DEAD!

"The problem with socialists is they always run out of other peoples money."

-Margaret Thatcher

ldo

All one has to do is look at Presidents in uniform and know that Mr. Obama DOES NOT SUPPORT a strong military:

• http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/american-presidents-in-uniform/question-3236431/

Maybe that is why Mr. Obama will not call "Islamic radicals" "TERRORISTS".

clwyd-2621393....."Stop the extreme Nazi Party ( republican) that has now been formed!"

Time for your bedtime after your meds.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW: I am a long time Democrat who will be voting Mr. Obama out of office. I voted for Romney~Ryan to take back America from my Progressive party and my Progressive RADICAL throw backs.

**************************************

LIAR, YOU NEVER VOTED FOR OBAMA

Mitt Romney knows nothing about the military. He never has. He never will. He will delegate that just like Bush did and look what that got us!! Two unfunded, totally mismanaged, wars!! Thousands of dead troops, hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties!! Romney preaches peace now, two weeks ago, he was baiting Iran!! He is a joke and Paul Ryan is the punch line!! Anyone who can vote Republican in this election must have brain damage!! Obama has brought us some respect around the world again. Romney has made us a laughing stock, everywhere he goes!!

John. 12 attacks on U.S. Embassies under Bush, 33 dead and no condemnation from the GOP.

"Mitt, The Twit" is suffering from the " Romnesia Disease" once again today. Within the past month, it was the GOP, who denied the healthcare and jobs Bill for returning Vets. Ryan signed up for this veto, too. Their philosophy is to use and abuse the young people while they "Do Nothing" in D.C. Neither Romney, Ryan or their children spent time in the service in harms way. But, Blond Bimbo Ann claims that they did their admirable service to the U.S. by serving in a Mission for 2 years. And where was that?? In France for 2 years, a paid vacation by their Church. Wow! Don't you wish you had that kind of paid vacation for 2 years straight in a row that was out of the way of harm? Now, that's what I call an extremely dangerous war front zone. Only a self-serving, unpatriotic, heathen would use that as an excuse. Why didn't they do their Mission in South Africa, etc. where those people could have used the help?? Oh, those poor little rich sons born with a gold and silver spoon in their mouths!!!!!!

This is a perfect example of why your taxes will skyrocket as the elite gets their tax exemptions lowered even more. The GOP will use their military for war without the means of paying for the war. That money will come out of our taxes to cover those expenses and tax cuts for the rich. Stand up to them now, before you (the everyday working people become their backward slaves to the GOP elitist). Remember, too, it is the GOP (Ryan's creation), who want to pass a Bill called, "The Right to Work", which means the elimination of the minimum wage salaries for everyone along with more money in the pocket for the corporate elitist and no health benefits. Is this really what the everyday worker wants??? Can they afford to work for less and pay all the bills?? What is more beneficial to you? Have a slow economic improvement, or more suppression and regression with lower wages and no benefits??? Listen, watch, and think very carefully all women and young people as to what the GOP really stands for with their intended agenda of going back to the Dark Ages of the Gestapo Bush/Chaney/Rove days and worse. Romney has not been a man of honor or integrity when it comes to the U.S. with paying his taxes or service in the military. He pays far less taxes than the 47%, whom he could care less about. Why else do you think he has refused to show any of his tax reports, except for the last 2 years??? All the past Presidents including Obama have shown 10 years plus with their tax reports. What is Romney and his wife really hiding besides the $67 K plus to feed their Co. horse in the Bahamas off shore account???? His company, Bain Capital is currently shutting down the Sensato Co. (not sure of the spelling) in Dec. and sooner if their employees don't vote for Romney as the CEO DEMANDS. This is nothing more than a Gestapo Fascist Leadership!! And guess who serves as President on the Board, and has a big investment in the Company? Why, none other than "Mitt, The Chameleon, Flip-Flopping Twitt". The GOP could care less about your rights or the jobs being sent overseas. Is this what you really want?? One thing you can be sure to count on IF Mitt/Ryan/GOP should win their seats is: The changing colors that they show today will not be the same colors of tomorrow. They have not separated the Bush policies from themselves, nor do they have any intention of doing otherwise. There is no way we can afford more of Bush's tax cuts for the elitists, spend more money on expanding the military (or wars), except to raise the taxes, and eliminate all benefits for the middle, elderly, disabled, and poor people. That is exactly what they have done with the returning Vets already. Can you really TRUST the self-serving GOP and the flip-flopping Romney/Ryan???????? Can you trust a Candidate, who runs away for the Presses questions (just as done by Bush/Cheney)???? Besides consistency, we deserve answers along with the transparency that Romney/Ryan/GOP feels is none of your business (with those exact words expressed about her husbands Tax reports). Doesn't that sound familiar with Bush's previous public comments expressed????????????

Get out and Go vote as if your lives and jobs depend on your decision!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Risk1

Obama, will also create trillions more in US debt. When will Democrats end this insane spending spree by, Obama!

Remember America, Al Qaida is alive, and Ambassador Cris Stevens is DEAD!

*****************************************************

YOU ARE A JOKE

BUSH TOOK US FROM A SURPLUS TO A 10 TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT....

SO NOT ONLY WAS HE RESPONSIBLE FOR 10 TRILLION, BUT, HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MORE THAN THAT IF YOU ADD WHAT THE SURPLUS AMOUNTED TO, AND, adding the first year of Obama administration since that year was the last year of BUSHS' BUDGET!!!

AS FAR AS AL QAIDA WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST, WE BOMB EVERY MUSLIM COUNTRY?

idiot sheeple

Vote Romney/Ryan!

Because blind trust isn't just for money anymore.

Yes I am an Obama supporter. I voted for him in 2008 and will do so again in 2012. One thing about Marines...people usually don't question our integrity, our intelligence or combat prowess...and I have to tell you, I know I got my sh** together. I'm also a pretty good judge of character, and I gotta say, Romney's not only a crook and liar....he just looks damn evil. He could be the biggest and most influential Mormon on the planet and I wouldn't trust him with Almighty Gods underwear...hell Romney's capable of stealing Gods underwear right off his ethereal arse and make people like you believe it was the best thing since the invention of sliced bread! Next!

4 more for 44!

Obama/Biden 2012

Clinton/????? 2016

VOTE for a straight Democratic ticket across the Board until the Republicans reform their disgraceful self-serving GOP interests/intentions of ignoring the 47% or 98% while cutting off all our benefits in order to place more money in their pockets for wasteful spending, earmarks, lobbyists, suppressing the voters rights, lowering our hourly wages, and sending the jobs overseas to earn a much bigger profit for themselves.

Just finished looking at the batch of new polls in today.

The poll that really caught my eye was the New York Poll.

Obama had extended his lead to 29 points up from 24. Sounded impressive until I looked at the internals and was suprised to see that 53% of the Respondents were Democrats. From looking at al previous interals, no poll used more that 45% democrats to date AND the turnout in 2008 was 50%. Turnout in 2004 was 45%.

Then, I looked at the Republican Turnout. The Poll says 23%. 2008 was 26%. 2004 was 29%.

From the next to last poll, showed a 24% spread, only 45% Democrats 22% Republicans. That is a +7 net difference in partisan mix just from one poll to the next, yet Obama's portion increased from 61% to just 62%.

Question. Does anyone think that there just might be a huge shift headed toward Romney that is being hidden?

I wonder, those that are so big on "defense" spending, and American power projection, how willing are they to put their life where their mouth is, and sign up, or encourage their loved ones to sign up.

On the subject of American power, I have a suggestion that will maintain our ability to do harm to those that would harm us, while possibly saving some money. First, make many Massive Ordnance Air Blast Bombs(MOAB) Look it up if you need to. Upgrade them to the extent of modern science. Make it so they can be launched from nuclear submarines, or perhaps larger versions could be delivered via ICBM. After that is all said and done, arrange a potent demonstration, and talk about how America can rain death upon enemy nations with the push of a button. Also point out the fact that because these are not nuclear weapons, neighboring nations of those that would do us harm wouldn't have to worry about fallout from a nuclear attack. Pull all of our troops back home, and close down military bases abroad. Allow our pared down military to actually protect our borders and sovereignty. Use the bombs on everyone else.

Independent Thinker

Usually independents never vote a straight ticket.

Oeter

Romney stated at a fundraiser that he wants to quote - "Put black people back in chains".

That was Biden who said that. But what can we expect from the party that thinks Palin said "Oh, look you can see Russia from my house" That quote was from Saturday night live's Palin impersonator.

Fantomdog

John. 12 attacks on U.S. Embassies under Bush, 33 dead and no condemnation from the GOP

Fantondog...BREAKING NEWS: Bush retired 4 years ago.

Jody-1593626

Democrats, aka "Takers" or "Lay-abouts" have all day long to vote early. The Republicans, aka "The Makers" or "Working People" will come out in force to vote on Election Day.

All of your posts illustrate you have had too much Kool-Aid and not enough facts. But this post was so whacked I must reply to it.

I voted early by mail this weekend. After work yesterday, I finished researching every candidate and proposition, which took a lot of my time. But I believe voting is not a right versus privilege, rather it is a responsibility.

I'm a registered Independent and have been since the 1980s, but I voted a straight Democrat ticket all the way down to dog catcher, because the Teapublican Party has been hijacked by the most extreme elements in the GOP tent. I hope our Congress can become more moderate and bipartisan. And most of all I hope for fair elections, and that Romney and his ilk won't be able to steal this election like 2000.

Here is one that I think Obama can win, Americans young and old are tired of war, Tired of seeing so much of the budget go to build up a military for the sole purpose of making the rich richer. I am too young for Korea, but Viet Nam and Iraq and even to some extent Afghanistan was paybacks to the military contractors. Its time to rebuild America and the rest of the world be damned.

This is just another reason that the only sane choice this November is Barack Obama, to return to the dark days of Bush is not only asinine but also crazy.

"Fantondog...BREAKING NEWS: Bush retired 4 years ago."

And John we are still paying for it, and will for quite some time. Should we add the ignorance of Romney to the bill?

Yes, Jean. I think a vote for Rommulus is a vote for the dissolution of the Union and a vote to return to the Redeemers. Put blacks, women, and Hispanics back in their place, restrict voting, use the children of the poor as cannon fodder for wars and the parents of the soldiers as gears of industry to enrich the Rommulus's of the country. Talk about creating jobs...but neglect to mention that the jobs will be in China. Commit perjury and call our President A LIAR. Accuse our govt of failing us after they caused it to fail us. Blame everyone else for the greedy damage that they have done. The only thing more disturbing to me than Rmoney and his ring of criminal sociopaths and pathological liars is the disturbing number of Americans who either fail to see it or don't care. Romney and his ilk are the most evil in Washington since Nixon. They are more arrogant than even Boy George and more devious and perfidious than Ronnie Raygun. I wonder if he would consider Jesus insignificant since Jesus died penniless.

John-2032532

Fantomdog

John. 12 attacks on U.S. Embassies under Bush, 33 dead and no condemnation from the GOP

Fantondog...BREAKING NEWS: Bush retired 4 years ago.

**********************************

BREAKING NEWS, ILL TRADE ONE ATTACK FOR 12 ANYDAY OF THE WEEK

Bottom line is the US IS SAFER THAN WHEN YOUR BUDDY BUSH WAS POTUS

Breaking news, Obama has killed MORE enemies of MY COUNTRY in 4 years, INCLUDING OBL, than Bush had in 8 years

Roy Wilson:

I love that you cherry-pick two polls and then accuse your opponents of cherry-picking polls. Very enjoyable. I'm not sure what advantage you (and Romney) see in pretending, but I can assure you that if the polls showed Obama losing, I for one would have no hesitation in saying so.

But I, along with those who are putting their money where their mouth is, prefer a weighted average of all the polls, the far and away most credible being Silver's fivethirtyeight blog. Those numbers showed a big jump for Romney after the first debate, bringing him for the first time into the lead in Florida and North Carolina. But that trend stopped with the Biden/Ryan debate, and has been slowly but surely trending Obama ever since. There is a virtual tie right now in Virginia and Colorado, with consistent leads for Obama in all the other swing states.

Noting that Obama has a 76% chance of winning Ohio, and an 86% chance of winning Wisconsin (those two state alone enough to put Obama over 270 electoral votes), coupled with the trends heading in Obama's direction, we can see why fivethirtyeight puts the Obama's chance of winning the election at 75%. This almost exactly matches the betting odds you'll find over at intrade and betting.com. Which means if you're as sure of a Romney win as you sound, you really need to get over there and get some money down on those odds!

Silver's blog earned its credibility by being right on the money in the last several elections. Interesting to note that Mr. Silver, who gives your current favorite Gallup poll fair credit in his calculations, also wrote that Gallup has a long history of being off by about 4 points between its predictions and the final results.

Laura-308...

He is against equal pay,

FALSE

he will get rid of planned parenthood,

Half-Truth - eliminate federal funding. Like Big Bird, Planned Parent is mainly funded by private groups. Federal help is probably not necessary.

also (get rid of) Roe vs Wade,

True, but Far fetched. According to Romney, there is no current legislation he doing so that he would consider. IF anything he will add pro-life justices to the Supreme Court. Even if he does, a case has to make it to the Supreme Court just for the unlikely chance that the justice's would rule to strike Roe v Wade down. Conservatives thought the ACA would be struck down because of the "Conservatives" would do so. Guess What? The ACA lives.

we are just binders and the 47%.

Really sad mangling of what Romney said.

He wants to give more tax breaks to the wealthy, and I guarantee that the middle class will pay for that.

No, and very bad false assumption.

He also wants to repeal Obama care,

Horaaaay! If you don't want government sticking it's now in the vag., Government shouldn't be pulling the strings on other people's Health Care.

Borrow and Spend, Spend, Spend Some More

From the article above:

That's why my plan is to increase the number of ships we're building to maintain our
strong commitment to our military," Romney said.

This is proof that the Governor was not "present in mind" at last Monday night's debate.

He didn't here the Presidents explanation that our Navy already told Obama that "they don't
NEED" the ships.

Candidate Romney already wants to spend your tax dollars putting this country deeper in debt.

But don't worry.

He will take YOUR money to pay for it.

Salud

Question. Does anyone think that there just might be a huge shift headed toward Romney that is being hidden?

Answer - NO!

Paranoia runs deep with all the conspiracy theorists! lol

Well, I've got to run to keep from hiding,
And I'm bound to keep on riding.
And I've got one more silver dollar,
But I'm not gonna let Romney get it, no,
Not gonna let 'em catch the midnight rider.

And I don't own the clothes I'm wearing,
And the road goes on forever,
And I've got one more silver dollar,
But I'm not gonna let Romney get it, no
Not gonna let 'em catch the midnight rider.

And I've gone by the point of caring,
Some old bed I'll soon be sharing,
And I've got one more silver dollar,

But I'm not gonna let him get it, no
Not gonna let them catch the midnight rider.

YOUR GRADES OF F MINUS ARE STILL VALID: TruePatriot-445959, Eric-1047193, An Independent Thinker, Double_Jeopardy, NYMike, et al.

Failure to answer the Questions below:

What did President Obama spend $2.1 Trillion on that was previously not Budgeted for, requiring the current and future cuts to the previously budgeted for programs, projects, agencies including the Benefits and Entitlements for the "47%'s" that Need the Benefits and Entitlements.

What US Laws made Illegal the Causes of the previous Depressions. Who eliminated those US Laws Resulting in the current $60 Trillion to $100 Trillion Global Economic Crisis consisting of the Mortgage Crisis, Wall Street Crisis, Financial Crisis, Banking Crisis, Credit Crisis, etc..

I don't think they are going to cut defense much even though we spend more on it than all the other developed nations combined.

Plus looks like they are ramping up for war with Iran:

US sought use of British bases for war against Iran

By Peter Symonds

27 October 2012

The British-based Guardian newspaper reported Thursday that American diplomats have been lobbying Britain for the use of its military bases on Cyprus as well as US bases on the British territories of Ascension Island in the Atlantic and Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean in preparation for war on Iran.

[ http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/25/uk-reject-us-request-bases-iran ]

The US request points to a massive military buildup against Iran. The Pentagon has already stationed two aircraft carrier battle groups in or near the Persian Gulf, along with additional minesweepers and a specialized floating base that could be used to launch special forces operations inside Iran. A squadron of advanced F-22 fighters has also been moved to the region.

Access to the bases on Cyprus, Ascension Island and Diego Garcia would significantly boost the ability of the US air force to wage round-the-clock strikes against Iran.

The British government has, to date, rebuffed the Pentagon, significantly pointing out that an unprovoked US attack on Iran could be illegal under international law, as Tehran did not currently represent “a clear and present threat”.

British officials have cited advice drafted by the attorney general’s office that has been circulated to the Prime Minister’s office, the Foreign Office and the Ministry of

Defence. A senior government official told the Guardian: “The UK could be in breach of international law if it facilitated what amounted to a pre-emptive strike on Iran. It is explicit.”

Like the US-led illegal invasion of Iraq, the Obama administration is preparing to launch a war of aggression against Iran. This was the chief crime for which Nazi leaders were tried and convicted at Nuremberg following World War II…

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/oct2012/iran-o27.shtml

Maybe Independent Voters need to reexamine their leanings toward the Republican Party...

david-475776 -- No need to be insulting -- Just come out an make your point.

In comparison to previous administrations, the Obama administration has not only spent less (minus the bills incurred by Bush/Cheney) but has actually reduced the deficit. And the Obama administration has done this despite the wars and Great Recession he inherited -- That also required a stimulus, increased assistance such as food stamps and unemployment extensions, which are still a drop in the bucket compared to the cost for the Bush Tax Cuts.

Glass-Steagall was ended by a Republican congress during the Clinton Administration. Though the Dodd-Frank Act is not as good, it is better than nothing -- Even after Republicans watered it down, and even with the financial lobby still trying to chip away at it.

Which brings this full circle to:

Truth Conveyer

Obama should try to run on his record. He can't.

The president has a great record that he has been running on, and he has a great plan to expand upon this record in his second term as well. But if you only tune into FAUX Noise, you wouldn't know that.

ArchStanton - I don't think they are going to cut defense much even though we spend more on it than all the other developed nations combined.

President Obama as Commander In Chief Ordered the current Reduction In Forces of the 90,000 US Military Personnel thrown on Unemployment further straining the Veteran's Affair (Administration), and the Unemployment of 108,000 US Civilians employed by the US Military.

President Obama and Secretary of Defense Leon Penetta, 2012, "A 10% Defense Budget Cut will result in a Million (US) Civilians becoming Unemployed". President Obama's Proposal to US Congress demanding a 11% "Across the Board" Budget Cut including Defense Budget Cut.

ArchStanton- Plus looks like they are ramping up for war with Iran:

Too late.

TruePatriot-445959 -- No need to be insulting -- Just come out an make your point.

I tried that before then all the name calling started. Answer the first question:

What did President Obama spend $2.1 Trillion on that was previously not Budgeted for, requiring the current and future cuts to the previously budgeted for programs, projects, agencies including the Benefits and Entitlements for the "47%'s" that Need the Benefits and Entitlements.

Without the reinstatement of the Glass Steagall Acts, and the continuation of Credit Defaults and Derivatives the Global Economy IS on the Road to Greece.

Typical Republican B.S... Romney sounds like a Neanderthal “Me strong on defense Democrat not” …. Duhhhhh. All these Republican idiots and Romney in particular make me sick. Romney is not only a pathological liar he doesn’t know jack about any topic he comments on. Mitt Romney is the biggest fraud I’ve ever seen run for the presidency and I’ve seen quite a few.

Anybody considering voting for this 1950s game show host should reexamine their decision making paradigm and hopefully they will find their way back to reality. If elected this guy would without a doubt be a complete disaster making bad and dangerous decisions...... I can feel the endless war coming now.

add to post #118,

The Report Card for US President's:

Misery Index, the higher the number the more Miserable US Citizens are:

Barack H. Obama, 10.68

George W. Bush, 8.11

About the "Budget Surplus", that is NOT the indicator of the US Economy (US Congress can/did "sandbag" the Budget by giving more than the President can spend), the Interest on the National Debt is: President Clinton, $18.9 Billion; President Bush $16.6 Billion.

Well, David, Arch is closer to the truth than you are. The big defense increases of the Bush years were basically continued through the Obama years, with a current budget proposal to maintain that elevated spending with small increases over time. I suppose that's better than the $2 trillion increase in defense spending proposed by Romney, but still tough to swallow for those who think we already spend way too much on defense.

Of course, a friendly note again to Arch (the issue has come up before) that if Occupy would have taken the opportunity it had to make alliances and back political candidates, defense spending and war with Iran might now be front-burner topics, along with, say, better Wall Street regulations.

By the way, Arch, have you decided whether you are going to vote, or sit this one out?

Plain and simple WARS end and defense spending goes down.As far as the Navy G.W.Bush had the lowest ship count[according to factcheck.]. Although, I don't think that matters since our ships are top technological machines. We have the most ships in the world 431 next is China with 425 of which we have more larger ships and subs,they outnumber us in some of the smaller vessels[patrol boats,mine sweepers, etc.] this info from a chart in wikipedia. We don't need to increase our defense budget to make the rich, richer, and make our country poorer! How do you finance increases,then say you are interested in cutting taxes to all? We are not the Worlds Police!

Isn't it amazing? For every Dollar cut from defense spending, the benefit to our civilian economy is between $2.50 and $3.00!

And Mitt Romney wants to whine about that, just like he wants to whine that every American earning less than $35K per year is an entitlement leech?

This recent study backs-up my assertion. It was written by the Chair of the Department of Economics at the University of California - San Diego, a city dependent on a fair amount of military spending.

This report contains 20 pages of graduate-level economics research using multiple formulas, and also contains another 20 pages of easier-to-understand graphs. The author, Valerie Ramey, draws on 40 earlier sources in her research, including 6 of her own previous papers on the subject. She holds a PH.D. in Economics from Stanford University earned in 1987 and she is highly-respected in her field.

http://econ.ucsd.edu/~vramey/research/NBER_Fiscal.pdf

There is no good reason to continue a wartime level of defense spending which is absolutely ruinous to our civilian economy, unless you are someone dependent on defense spending, or if you are a die-hard supporter of Israel and someone just itching to start another war with Iran, hoping to get back the Iranian oil fields that their lawfully elected government tried to nationalize in 1953, before the CIA overthrew their government and installed a murderous CIA puppet dictator who then killed over one million of his own countrymen who didn't agree.

Really, we only have ourselves to blame for the current reality in Iran, and we don't currently have the economic strength to embark on another major war in order to allegedly protect Israel nor to attempt to steal back Iran's oil fields either. If we re-elect President Obama, and at least a 41% minority in the US Senate, that $100 billion in "fiscal cliff" defense cuts will benefit our civilian economy immensely and put unemployed Americans back to work by the same 2.5 or 3 to 1 ratio too!

Obama/Biden 2012 Another Four Years!

And yet ANOTHER LIE! The President DIDN'T say we didn't use bayonets and horses anymore. What he said was we DIDN'T NEED AS MANY bayonet and horses as we used to just as WE DON'T NEED AS MANY SHIPS as we used to!

Honestly, people: STOP LISTENING TO THIS FRICKEN' LIAR! It's one thing to have a difference of opinion on policy, but it's another to tell bold-faced lies! I've NEVER heard a presidential candidate flat out lie as often as MittWit has. He disgusts me!

@DB Akron "Question. Does anyone think that there just might be a huge shift headed toward Romney that is being hidden?"

No that is just what the media is trying to get people to believe. All so that Mitt can win by cheating and so that we do not get as pissed, call B.S., and riot/revolt. How many elections can the GOP cheat at before someone catches on? Add http and www to "dailykos.com/story2012/10/27/1150533/-Part-Two-Further-Analyses-Shows-Republican-Election Fraud", they have charts, or just search for Ex NSA agent finds evidence of GOP voter fraud.

Seems like Tagg's connections are paying off. We already know who owns the media, and that is not poor people. I wonder who they want to win? I mean look at the title of this article and tell me ms"NBC" is liberal...lol. I could go back, count the number of Mitt articles, the headlines, and make up some charts, but it would just prove what I already know. Who owns NBC again? GE and Comcast, rich people will do anything to stay in money and power and it will be the death of them. The will manipulate the story that the media tells, they will manipulate the data from the voting machines, ALL TO WIN. What happens if after 4 years the economy is worse? Who are you going to blame it on then? It seems like you really want us to bust out the guillotines? You are forcing us to and we do not have a choice. Either kill you or we die. Why are you forcing people to make the decision? Are you all F***ING stupid or suicidal?

Visit my site and vote:

http://double-jeopardy.newsvine.com/_news/2012/10/27/14737482-mccain-and-graham-demands-administration-declassify-benghazi-video

OeterK "Romney stated at a fundraiser that he wants to quote - "Put black people back in chains"."

Are you for real? That was Biden that said it.

just like a scared little puppy barks when backed into a corner, so do you democrats! you are scared but you shouldn't be. the rest of america wants your golden child and his party's socialist policies to go bye bye and that's a really good thing!!!

you want socialism?...go back to Europe!

If you need a bayonet you have FAILED at the second rule of having/owning a gun. NEVER LET SOMEONE GET CLOSE ENOUGH TO GRAB YOU GUN. If I can grab the barrel I can control the gun as well if not better then you can. I can take it away from you or prevent you from shooting me. WTF was the point of having a gun in the first place?

Not to mention in almost any environment a longer weapon is a PAIN. You cannot go through doors, trees, bushes, etc. as easily versus if you had a shorter weapon. They also add weight too and make a gun more nose heavy. I wonder why most of our military NEVER USES THEM OR PUTS THEM ON THEIR GUNS? They have "people movers" now that are part of the flash suppressor/muzzlebrake, but they are not bayonets.

Only people grasping for straws/votes would even bother to mention it.

Snakebone "Roy Wilson: But I, along with those who are putting their money where their mouth is, prefer a weighted average of all the polls"

If you check the 'weighted average of all the polls' as reflected by Realclearpolitics, Romney is ahead there too.

According to my analysis, the whole race boils down to two States - Ohio and Wisconsin. Obama must win both, but Romney only needs to win one of them, and Rasmussen has them both tied at this time.

In about 10 days we'll find out who's right.

Todays MSNBC/Newsvine Poll conducted by yours truly:

Do you believe we should declassify all intelligence data that led us to war in Iraq?

Yes -

No -

I'll let you know the outcome later on this evening.

Hmmmmm, funny isn't it?

The limp-wristed Libbies continue to demonize their favorite bogeyman, The Military Industrial Complex.

Even though it's the military's defense spending that added 0.3% of growth to Obamarrhea's pathetic growth rate numbers this past quarter. This years growth is at an abysmal 1.74%, below last years whopping 1.8%.

Of course the Liberal bobbleheads don't care about insignificant things like growth, unemployment and sequestration. This is because they never contribute to the productivity of our nation as they live in their "Life of Julia" bubbles.

This shouldn’t be surprising to real Americans when the Barrack Hussein campaign is built around stalwart policy issues such as contraceptives for college bimbos, Big Bird, binders and interviews with “Sway” or “Pimp with a Limp”.

Ever since Barrack Hussein had Obamarrhea during the first debate and was frozen in awe as the statesman and next President of the United States, Mitt Romney, proved that there was an empty chair next to him the American people have been convinced it’s time for real change.

It’s sad that the current trespasser in our White House had to stoop to hastily slap a 20 page comic book, mostly pictures, to try and explain more of the social and economic justice nonsense Barrack Hussein promotes. The indoctrination won’t work this time around.

We can only hope that the useful idiots who voted for Barrack Hussein in 2008 to pretend they aren’t racist don’t make the same mistake and prove their ignorance.

Our great Republic is at a crossroads. The status quo of the past 4 years built on class warfare, envy and confusion or leadership, pride in our great Republic and American exceptionalism.

The choice is obvious.

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012 FOR REAL AMERICANS©

ArchStanton - Like the US-led illegal invasion of Iraq, the Obama administration is preparing to launch a war of aggression against Iran.

First, Basic High School US Civics and US Government; US Congressional Appropriations, It is the US Congress's Responsibility to find the Funds for the US Laws that they create, it is not the responsibility of the US President. The US President can use the lack of US Congressional Appropriations not to enforce a US Law.

Second, the term "Illegal" as Against a standing Law or doing an Action(s) that does not have a Law to justify that Action(s).

Third, 2003 Operation Iraqis Freedom as Justified and Funded thru President Clinton's US Law with US Congressional Appropriations, H.R. 4655, "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" Justification Section 2 Weapons of Mass Destruction, Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein.

Quite a lot of us with experience with the Middle East knew that President Hussein was the counterbalance to the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran and spending most of the Iraqis Oil Wealth keeping Iran in check. We were threatened with charges of "Insubordination" after being ordered to conduct 2002 Operation Hotel California; after conducting 2001 Operation Viking Hammer to eliminate the Taliban, Al Quada, that escaped us from Afghanistan via the Old Silk Road and renamed themselves Ansar Al Islam. US Congress (All Political Parties) demanded that President Bush attack Iraq (including the "If you want Oil go to Iraq and get it", after US Congress denied Bush's request for ANWR Oil Exploration and the US had just lost the Oil from Venezuela.).

Google search Iraqis Chemical Weapons Facility at Sargat Iraq.

So to the best of our abilities (to survive), we conducted 2002 Operation Hotel California, to create a Strategic Feint to make the Iraqis Military Command and the Iraqis Political Leadership believe that the Main US Military Forces would attack thru US Ally Turkey. So that the Iraqis Military Command would deploy their Iraqis Military Forces North of Baghdad. No matter how many times Islamic Nation US Ally Turkey Politicians denied they would authorize the US Military to enter Islamic Nation of Iraq thru Islamic Nation US Ally Turkey, the Islamic Nation Iraq Political Leadership kept calling them liars.

To date the ONLY "ILLEGAL UNFUNDED" War was President Obama's Libya, as a direct Violation of the US Law that Restricts and Limits the President's War Powers, 1973 War Powers Resolution (Act). So President Obama as Commander In Chief Ordered the US Military to attack Libya, without a US Law with US Congressional Appropriations to cover his arse before the First US Military Actions. Note: Unclassified, US Army Special Forces LTC Wood and his US Army Special Forces Specialized Support Teams were at Libya in February, aka "Boots on the Ground". Google search Unclassified Mission of US Army Special Forces as to why they were at Libya before March. Afterwards on behalf of President Obama SOS Clinton appologzied to US Congress, "I'm sorry".

President Obama basically Overthrew a Former US Ally for fighting against Islamic Jihadists and being called by President Obama, "Dictator Killing His Own People". This his (NOT) "Own People" being the "Libyan Rebels" of the Fundamentalist Islamic Al Quada Saudi Arabia (AQ), Al Quada Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), Al Quada Syria (AQS), Al Quada Yemen (AQY), Hezbollah, Al Quada Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), etc., that went to Libya to Overthrow President Gaddaffi the Collaborator to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers. After the Overthrow they rename themselves Ansar Al Shariah, to protect and instate Fundamentalist Islamic Shia (Sharia) Law as the Rule of Law for Libya.

The Libyan Islamic Fighting Group were the Islamic Jihadists killing US Military at Iraq. The Libyan Islamic Fighting Group is the current Government of Libya.

david-475776 -- It's hard to have sympathy if a snarky narcissistic person is called names. Just make your case instead of insulting others. Homey don't play little games.

Old Timer-88224 -- Agreed. It was bin Laden who wanted to bleed the US financially, but really it is the rightwing oligarchy who's greed is never ending. If the US continues deficit spending to over-extend the military, we will fall like Rome (let alone Greece where no one pays taxes).

There are clear choices in this election, such as increasing defense spending and cutting taxes even more for the rich OR restoring the middle class/upward mobility and investing in the future of this nation. In a nutshell, this is the trade-off being presented.

Obama/Biden - Four More Years!

Ido,

I'm too old to go to bed and I've lived through and seen, as a boy in Germany, the beginnings of the Nazi Party taking control. I've stated many times here the similarities and they just get scarier and scarier that the republican party (New Nazi American Party) is starting on the same path! Don't fal for it before it is too late!

Romney and Lying Ryan for real fascists!

Mitt summed it up very nicely when he said, "Obama doesn't want to cut anything except the Defense." What does that tell other countries. We will be left open for destruction, that's what.

Yeah...never mind that the U.S. military budget is already larger than the next ten countries combined.

http://defense.aol.com/2012/03/16/the-military-imbalance-how-the-u-s-outspends-the-world/

Sheesh...

@david-475776

YOUR GRADES OF F MINUS ARE STILL VALID:TruePatriot-445959, Eric-1047193, An Independent Thinker, Double_Jeopardy, NYMike, et al.

Failure to answer the Questions below:

What did President Obama spend $2.1 Trillion on that was previously not Budgeted for, requiring the current and future cuts to the previously budgeted for programs, projects, agencies including the Benefits and Entitlements for the "47%'s" that Need the Benefits and Entitlements.

I'll make this real simple for you Sparky. And I'll type real slow so that even a factually challenged neocon repugnican like yourself who is blinded by hate can understand it. It's actually very simple.

The answer to your question is "nothing!". The president doesn't spend. Congress spends. I know you repugs get really twisted up by that blasted Constitution. Those danged laws keep getting in your way. But there it is.Congress spends the money. Any more questions, Eeyore?

Snakebone - Well, David, Arch is closer to the truth than you are.

Answer these Questions:

1. Bottomline Who Specifically Gets the Money.

2. How many US Civilians are employed by the US Military Defense Industrial Complex.

3. Why does the US have to spend more, and get less bang for the buck than the Chinese and Russian Federation.

Tired-2176559 - If you need a bayonet you have FAILED at the second rule of having/owning a gun.

How many examples do you want to post:

UN Mission Somalia II, Operation Continue Hope, Battle for Mo(gadishu). After running out of ammunition and handgrenades, as well as picking up AKs, RPGs, etc. from the dead; it was bayonets (that don't run out of bullets).

October 2001, Afghanistan the fierce Urban Warfare battles against the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government's Militias (Army) at the Afghan Cities of Qala 'I' Janghi, Mazar 'I' Sharif, etc.; regardless of carrying hundreds of pounds of ammunition, grenades, firing semi auto; minimal water and no food, wearing cold weather gear. Ran out of ammunition, picked up AKs, RPGs, etc. from the dead. Bayonets again, except this time no place to run to like Mo, Somalia. Before being wiped out the others (that survived attacking the Islamic Jihadist Training Camps) with the Northern Alliance came as literally Cavalry on Horseback to the Rescue, reinforced and drove the Taliban, Al Quada to the Old Silk Road to Northern Iraq, and some to Islamic Nation of Pakistan. Because we lost so many people, Readcted % as non mission capable; had to be augmented by the US Army 10th Special Forces Group to conduct Operation Viking Hammer to eliminate those that escaped into Northern Iraq and Operation Hotel California.

TruePatriot-445959, Thomas Blue,

There you go again. Cannot answer the question, so the name calling.

Thomas Blue - The president doesn't spend.

Go read President Obama's President's Proposal to US Congress.

clwyd-2621393 - I'm too old to go to bed and I've lived through and seen, as a boy in Germany, the beginnings of the Nazi Party taking control.

Really, the National Socialist German Workers Party. Guess you enjoy the Actions of President Obama, signing his January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts that eliminated Constitutional Rights, shown during a staged news media event January 22, 2009 4:38 minutes of 11:55 minutes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLSeD19m3UE&feature=fvst

And his 2012 NDAA.

I cant stand the Tea party and I cant stand the far left liberals,, they are both a total waste of political opinion. I think Romney has done whats necessary to get the Republican nomination. GOOD JOB! it appears he is a right of center politician. and has the plan to get America off its ass and back to work.

believe me when I say, if you take a huge amount of entitlements off the table. the unemployment rate will drop. I believe to get people to work there must be incentive!

I can only hope that the government bread and cheese program will be enough for all those who cant find work. We should feed our hungry!

but see how quick the unemployment rate drops if the provisions are basic staples, I for one cant stand seeing a fat ass in line in front of me with a cart loaded up with all those wonderful foods that I have to work my ass off for, and see him/her pull out the electronic food stamp card! and I know by paying taxes I have just enabled this behavior to continue!

And when I see all the blather about Romney lying, I can only laugh, because the accusations are coming from some supporter that cannot face the truth themselves. President Obama lies too, they all lie, its what you expect, its what you allow, its what you have become used to! Go figure.

who said this

" I Pledge to cut the deficit in half by the end of my first term"

or

"over the last 4 years Bush has added 4 trillion dollars to the deficit ITS IRRESPONSIBLE ITS UNPATRIOTIC"

And please notice I say President Obama and not some slang dirty little name, like that helps. It doesn't. he is the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! and I am proud he served THANK YOU President Obama!

Now its time to be Patriotic! Vote for a real change now ROMNEY 2012

BULLETIN.....JUST IN.!!!!!!......ROMNEY VOWS TO GIVE EXTRA RATION OF HARDTACK AND A PINT OF RUM DAILY FOR OUR TROOPS IN VALLEY FORGE!!!

Yes M rPanderpants never passes up a chance to pander to anyone, even two hundred years ago....!!!

@david;

The republicans created the patriot act, and came up with it . I always ask people that complain about this act, how they think it will directly affect them. I never get a good answer, are they going to listen in to find out what you are wearing to the party? I think not.lol

You make it sound as if Obama made and passed this act, he just renewed it with no changes, anf the senate approved it.

The Patriot Act, passed shortly after the September 11, 2001 attacks, granted law enforcement increased surveillance powers to prevent additional terrorist incidents,

You see.

Guess you enjoy the Actions of President Obama, signing his January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts that eliminated Constitutional Rights

Guess you would rather have terrorist get away with ummm terror.

This bill will take no rights from you sir. Your constitutional rights are safe and sound, unless you are suspected of terrorism, and I doubt you are David. You are suspected of ignoring facts in your face though.

Roy Wilson: Interesting assumptions. I agree with Eric Fernstrom (Romney's campaign head) and everyone else that there is really no way Romney can win without Ohio. Obama could lose Ohio and make it up with Iowa (where he is currently ahead) and one other swing state. But don't listen to me... if you can get 3 - 1 odds on a race you think is really even, you do need to get your Christmas money down on that one.

Yeah, I think the reason the gambling sites mirror 538 instead of realclearpolitics is in part because the more simplistic methodology of realclearpolitics was way off on a lot of state races in '08, which is where the big difference between the two polls lies right now. They were wrong about the outcomes in Indiana and North Carolina, and were off by at least 6 points in New Mexico, Iowa, and Nevada. They were also off by at least 3 in Colorado, Pennsylvania and Michigan. Those are not great numbers. 538 was almost dead-on in the states.

This will be an interesting election.

David: none of the three questions you asked me is relevant to the fact that budgeted military outlays remain at the elevated levels of the Bush years.

If you have some point to make about where the money goes or something, make it. But don't ask me to do your research for you, especially since I would have no idea what I was even looking for.

Rum and hardtack? I'm in! Where is Valley Forge?

The DemoRats should go ahead and check in to the Rubber Room Hotels for the next 8 years while the Romney/Ryan team get our nation back on the right track. Based on the liberal comments over the last 4 years they are really going to blow their gaskets when obama loses due to his lies, and his ineptness in EVERYTHING he does. ROMNEY/RYAN 2012-2020

@mike-2598123- The black community has never threatened to riot if President Obama loses... On the other hand Ted Nuggent and numerous other right wing wackos have made all sorts of threats if Mittens loses... I guess you got the two confused, I'm not surprised since you are obviously a faux news worshipping right wing clown. I can't wait to cast my vote for Obama/Biden

With the Middle East in complete meltdown and Iran working on nuclear weapons, the LAST thing we need are defense cuts!

Look how well that turned out for Barry in Benghazi!

4 Americans are DEAD and our POTUS LIED to the American people about it!

Why were we IN Libya to begin with? Oh, thats right, Barry went there WITHOUT Congressional approval to tell them how to run their lives........they didnt like it either!

Bye Bye Barry! Dont let the door hit ya!

The black community has never threatened to riot if President Obama loses

Really? What is this? I guess the black panthers never tried voter intimidation either huh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMxunIW6TJ0

Riots/Race War, if Obama Loses - Domestic Terror - America Held Hostage

Willard Romney is a JOKE. He has no right to be running for the office of President of our United States. He can't be taken at "Face Value" because he is a two-faced lyin' jacka$$. Prior to the debates, he was "Ridin' Right"; then during the first debate, he slid to the left and became, "Moderate Mitt." But now as November draws near, he is most certainly once again (and always has been) "Ridin' Right Mitt."

And those around him and support him on FOX, like Marsha Blackburn, have no idea about what really goes on in WAR--not Blackburn (aka: The Image Consultant") and or especially RoMONEY. Geraldo mentioned, Impeach. Suddenly, I had the urge to seek him out and break his phucking nose again. FOX EXCUSE should be shut down. No wonder all the TeaBagNutSacs comment like they do; FOX is not just disturbing, it's scandalous.

How are the Republicans going to get us back on the "right" track?

Maybe by stealing whatever is left in the Social Security trust fund so that they can falsely pump-up their economic numbers, like GW did?

Maybe by pumping-up military spending, which costs our civilian economy $2.50 in economic growth for every $1.00 in extra military spending?

Maybe by giving Romney and his rich friends some extra spending money, by stealing more money from the middle class, so that Romney and his friends can take foreign vacations, buy foreign-made yachts and foreign cars, and maybe even invest some of it in moving even more of our jobs offshore?

Romney and Ryan have a plan all right, which is to permanently erase all of the gains ever made by American workers, return America to the worst abuses of the robber-baron era of a century ago, and get filthy rich doing it too.

You think that either of these guys care one iota what happens to you or me? The only reason that they claim to care about any of us is to see how much money that they can steal from us!

Here are some poll numbers from earlier today that show the President with a 2% lead:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/27/us-usa-campaign-poll-idUSBRE89K0A920121027

You're all yammering about a bunch of issues that aren't going to make a damned bit of difference. Mitt Romney is running for ONE reason and ONE reason only. To fulfill the White Horse Prophesy. That means the LDS church will be pulling his strings and he is bound by BLOOD OATH to put the CHURCH'S interest BEFORE those of the country. The LDS Church believes that they are going to take over the government from non-Mormons and ready it for their version of "Christ" to rule. Think I'm kidding ? Do some research. These people have all of you RWNJs snowed w/their "We're Christians too" propaganda campaign. I know because I'm a lapsed Mormon and the 'god', Jesus and Satan of Mormonism are NOT the same 'god' Jesus and Satan of Christianity. THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIANS and they are BOUND to their cult first and foremost. Believe me... you will be sorry if you vote MORMON, INC into power.

That's right. Those around him are Bush's neo-cons who started two wars - one completely based on lies. Read the article in this link to refresh your memories of the Project for a New American Century, its founders and leaders - later associated with the Heritage Foundation and some from the Trilateral Commission - Wolfowitz, Perle, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bennett, Scooter Libby, Edelman, Schmidt, Cohen, Kagan, Bolton, Kristol, Zackheim, Weber, Talent, Senor, Dobriansky, Cofer Black, Chertoff

http://www.policymic.com/articles/3662/warning-mitt-romney-s-advisers-are-george-bush-neocons-calling-for-war-with-iran

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mj-rosenberg/romney-iran_b_1187286.html

Quite a fun group willing to start wars if it makes them rich...never mind if it is in the interests of this country. Romney will outsource foreign policy so he can just enjoy being President at home...he infuriates most other foreign leaders - like our allies.... sigh.

Lovely. They messed up this country beyond recognition in 2000-2008. Begged Clinton for war with Iraq in 1998,he wouldn't, then took over the Bush White House and dragged us all down with them.

And so Romney is really who some of you want for president? WHY WHY WHY?

Snakebone - David: none of the three questions you asked me is relevant to the fact that budgeted military outlays remain at the elevated levels of the Bush years.

I already know the answers, I am not going to spoonfeed anymore. As your own research is more valuable to yourself not me.

Coral Taxi - The republicans created the patriot act, and came up with it .

I will explain this just ONE MORE Time. Previously, a bunch of us found out about US Senate S.1959 and H.R.1955 aka the George Orwell 1984 Thought Crimes Laws. A lot of us started to inform as many people as possible, some even posted on youtube.com. These two US Laws were defeat by the US Public. We all cheered, and believed we won, then we forgot about everything.

These were placed into President Obama's New (not the same as the President Bush Patriot Act (Singular US Law) January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts (Plural US Laws). President Obama's Patriot Acts Legalized the US Monitoring and Censorship of All US Communications; Without Warrant Mandatory Cooperation of US Communications Providers (especially Internet Service Providers) like providing your IP Address and Physical Location(s); (No) Material Support to Terrorist Organizations (no legal representation as "Expert Advise", currently being fought by the ACLU); Expanded Presidential Powers; US Military Use of Deadly Force Against US Citizens; US Military Tribunals (with Classified Witnesses, Classified Evidence, etc.) as stated in the video New US Military Commissions; US NORTHCOM; "Black Sites" expansions mentioned in the video; Classified Sections; Preemptive Detentions; straight from H.R.1955 and S.1959 the definition, "Anyone stating a Radical Change to (US) Government is a Homegrown Domestic Terrorist"; and too many other Sections.

In February 2009, under threat of prosecution, most International Internet Sites changed their format to an International Internet Site and a Censored US Only Internet Site, those that did not were blocked out of the US, with http 404, http 403, "Service not available in your Country", "Blocked in your Region", etc.; and youtube.com then requiring Registration to post unlike before, and must register to view content with IP Address verification (so I stopped posting some youtube videos of Afghanistan as no longer anonymous, not gruesome videos but the waste fraud and abuse of the US Department of State.).

Coral Taxi - Guess you would rather have terrorist get away with ummm terror.

Nothing to do with "terrorists" unless you consider most US Citizens that want any reform to US Government. Or;

What the Speaker for all Demoncraps stated, as then Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, "Anyone returning from the Wars is a potential Homegrown Domestic Terrorist", as Guilty until proven innocent.

I do know which end of my weapons I will be on, if I must give the orders to use deadly force against US Citizens, do you. And do not even believe that I will hesitate as this is no longer the 1990s as most of us already know the pecking order of who Summarily Executes whom for not giving the order or enforcing the order.

@ Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

You must be one of the pissed off libs that hate the gains that my Great state of WI has. I don't blame your envy to the fact that I have a better governor, & football team than you have!.... How's paying for the people who live off of bummer treating you?? Look at the facts and leave PMSbc to the few that like BS!

Old Timer-88224

Maybe by stealing whatever is left in the Social Security trust fund so that they can falsely pump-up their economic numbers, like GW did?

You mean the Social Security Trust Fund that your good-ole-boy LBJ manipulated the accounting to be able to count it in the General fund so he could cover the cost of the 2^nd most expensive war, Vietnam, from the American people?

Or do you mean the Social Security Trust Fund that Clinton manipulated between the Public Debt and Intragovernmental Holdings, that make up the National Debt, to give the mythical appearance of a surplus?

Try to keep up Spanky, time for your meds.

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012 FOR REAL AMERICANS©

NOTE: Liberals/Progressives remember to vote on November 7th.

What is sad is the fact that so many of you focused on the bayonet/horses thing and absolutely missed the context Obama was using it for. You don't need 100 men with just bayonets when you got one guy with an automatic rifle. You don't need a calvary division when you have a few M1A1 tanks. You don't need 15 WWII Battleships when you have an aircraft carrier with an attached air wing.

Understand now?

His point was that we don't need a 500+ Cold War sized Navy like Reagan gave us. Yes, we do more with less. I know, I put 13 years into the Navy with 2 deployments to the Gulf. Navy wants new ships, new weps designed. The Army says put money into development, not into couple of hundred tanks we don't need. Why doesn't Mitt listen to what the military is asking for, not what his supporters in Congress think will help get them re-elected.

Anyone who supports Romney is a total moron because the republican party had its 24 years controlling the presidential office.... And slowly in those 24 years our deficit grew, our economy sank and the cost of everything skyrocketed....

When Bush left office in 2009 he left a 5.1 trillion dollar deficit and an uneployment rate of 7.3%

And as of last month (September, 2012) the deficit is at 1.3 trillion dollars and the uneployment rate at 7.4%..... Now wiki that and look at facts....

I'm not saying Romney is bad man, just his wealthy ethics don't fit into government.... My mother said tonight that the rich haven't a clue as to what the poor need.... All they want is to protect their money....

So you see only a moron would support a moron....

ok mike, sound just a tad bit racist to me but let's let others decide about your post

Comment collapsed by the community

"as time runs short the property damage, threats and name calling by liberals is stronger than ever and the black community threatening to riot if Obama loses and as usual they will burning down there own neighborhoods, alot of Mensa graduate's at work.

the sucicide hotline will be busy late night on election day and the melt down begins !!!!!"

Obama/Biden 2012

Obama said in a speech today that he says what he means and means what he says. Yeah, right. If you believe that, I have some ocean-front property to sell you in Florida.

He said he would reduce the national debt by $5 trillion. Instead he increased it by $6.2 trillion to $16.2 trillion.

He promised he would reduce unemployment to 5.6%. Instead, due to his policies it INCREASED to over 8% for a record 43 months! Saying it is now 7.8% is a joke since they conveniently excluded California with its 10%+ unemployment rate. It's still over 8% folks, and probably much higher since many have quit looking for work or dropped off unemployment benefits.

He promised healthcare costs would go down some $2,500 per year. Instead they went UP over $2,500 per year.

He promised he would pass comprehensive immigration reform in his first term. He did NOTHING about immigration reform.

He probably promised a balanced budget. He hasn't had a budget in three years!! The last one he proposed got shot down by 100% of the House of Representatives. What a joke. The man is incompetent.

I could go on and on, but do you get the picture?

Barack Obama is a compulsive liar. He also lied about Benghazi, Libya, but the mainstream media, that loves him, refuses to even report it. Please, please vote him out of office in November. Thanks!

thank you community, been on here for couple years, but still don't how to try and get a comment taken down. would like some info on it from someone though. really hate reading shlt posts like his!

so alan 3008, you really think Americans just and say &@%# it, I cant get a job, I aint lookin for work any more??? really??? oh and by the way, my healthcare cost DID go down, not by 2.5k, but they are down! and to me, your post is like mikes, you just chose somewhat better wording. we'll see you on 11/06/12!

Believe me... you will be sorry if you vote MORMON, INC into power.

Ill take the Mormon over the MORON muslim any day!

@ David;

Nothing to do with "terrorists" unless you consider most US Citizens that want any reform to US Government

Yes sir the patriot act was meant to keep an eye on us Patriots.lol You are something else sir. But I do enjoy the Back and forths with you.lol

I do know which end of my weapons I will be on, if I must give the orders to use deadly force against US Citizens, do you. And do not even believe that I will hesitate as this is no longer the 1990s as most of us already know the pecking order of who Summarily Executes whom for not giving the order or enforcing the order.

We as citizens are armed to the teeth sir. If the government starts attacks unprovoked on citizens it would not go well for the armed forces. Many would defect to the citizens side, and I would be on your side David, the citizens side.

I will grant you though that we need ones such as yourself around, as when arguing this(Patriot act) before the other side made a valid point that any erosion of our rights can start a dangerous precedent. I do not believe though that the government will be attacking us anytime soon, and they can listen to me all they want ,I have nothing to hide nor am I a threat to the govt,as probably 98% of America is not.

I believe the fail safe on this act is that it must be renewed every few years, and that it is not a permanent fixture, or law.

“For our top leadership, with all the technological and military tools at their disposal, to have done nothing for seven hours was a joint civilian and military failure of initiative and nerve,” writes West, a Vietnam combat veteran who has reported extensively on US combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. . Instead, it appears passive groupthink prevailed, with the assumption being that a spontaneous mob would quickly run out of steam.”

Look what the media and our coward of a President is trying to deny you knowledge of...“Secretary of State Clinton has said the responsibility was hers. But there has been no assertion that the State Department overruled the Pentagon out of concern about the sovereignty of Libyan air space...Yet we had drones flying over the area during the attack!!! It is becoming clear as to why O'bama has been lying to us. He @!$%#ed up big time folks!

Read here if you want some real news libs....

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=latest%20on%20benghazi&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCQQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.csmonitor.com%2FUSA%2FMilitary%2F2012%2F1027%2FBenghazi-attack-Urgent-call-for-military-help-was-denied-by-chain-of-command&ei=iBKNUK7HOKWR0QHn0oC4Dg&usg=AFQjCNEs-FhI2RwdFsj8t8FifEAhSF3iWw

@ kornfed;

This article has been out for awhile, the Christian monitor sir? Really?lol

What is your point on Bhengazi? This was tragic event that unfolded in just hours, Panetta was told by two generals that there was to much risk and too much unknown to send in troops.(you conveniently leave that part out) Wrong or right you can not blame Obama for this when two generals would not even send their troops in, do you think a president would go against the advice of two generals? .

All of you saying this was a cover up, or the administration is lying are kidding themselves. These are great Americans who care about every service member, regardless of the inactions of our forces near,or in Bhengazi. Put your tin foil hats back on.

We do not even know yet who gave the orders to stand down, and yet you kornfed jump on the blame wagon. The mishaps of this event can not be blamed on Obama. Period."

(The) basic principle is that you don't deploy forces into harm's way without knowing what's going on; without having some real-time information about what's taking place," Panetta told Pentagon reporters. "And as a result of not having that kind of information, the commander who was on the ground in that area, Gen. Ham, Gen. Dempsey and I felt very strongly that we could not put forces at risk in that situation."

I would say these generals need to explain their actions that night more than the president. But hey just leave this part out Next time you play the blame game tell the whole story sir, not just the part that fits your views or opinions. This is called being biased, and one sided.

Not a fair view by any means.The deaths of these Americans are truly not his fault. They held their cards close to their vest as to not put the bad guys on the run,not ot lie to Americans.

Coral Taxi

@ kornfed;

This article has been out for awhile, the Christian monitor sir? Really?lol

This is precisely my point. People like you will be denied the truth behind the matter. This story should be carried by every news organization in the U.S. I understand this hurts your guy. But arnt you the least bit concerned? Plug Bush into the equation instead of O'bama, and maybe you would feel the same way? Blind love is a dangerous thing.

All of you saying this was a cover up, or the administration is lying are kidding themselves. These are great Americans who care about every service member, regardless of the inactions of our forces near,or in Bhengazi. Put your tin foil hats back on.

We do not even know yet who gave the orders to stand down, and yet you kornfed jump on the blame wagon. The mishaps of this event can not be blamed on Obama. Period."

Spare me the bull@!$%#. There is a reason O'bama lied about this incident being caused by a film in light of the emails that were received in the situation room of the White House while the attack was occurring.

It's customary for presidential candidates to meet with editorial boards of newspapers in states where the race is close and the endorsement may carry some weight. Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney recently took questions from the Register for 45 minutes, even though the paper's left-leaning editorial board hasn't endorsed a Republican since 1972. But when Obama spoke for 30 minutes by phone Tuesday with Register publisher Laura Hollingsworth and editor Rick Green, the White House insisted the conversation be kept off the record.

Why looky here, when questioned about this matter recently, he chose to keep his comments off the record. The result...lost major endorcement of the paper that has endorced every Democratic President since 1972 in the important state of Iowa.

@kornfed.

Spare me the bull@!$%#. There is a reason O'bama lied about this incident being caused by a film in light of the emails that were received in the situation room of the White House while the attack was occurring.

You refuted nothing I have shown you.lol I do not talk B.S. Show me one quote where Obama himself said the movie caused the attack. His speech at the U.N says it caused an uproar in the ME, nowhere in this speech does he directly blame the movie.

What you percieve as lying I percieve as not allowing details of an investigation out to alert the perps. You just completely ignore the fact that te President did not make this call. I have proof in your face of this and you ignore it.lol

This is precisely my point. People like you will be denied the truth behind the matter. This story should be carried by every news organization in the U.S.

Why? So the terrorist would know what we are thinking before we could

find them? I think not.

Now answer the question would you as president go against the advice of two regional generals and your SOD?

...lost major endorcement of the paper that has endorced every Democratic President since 1972 in the important state of Iowa.

This is a jaded editor who was not made privy to things he should not know.Period. Obama leads in Iowa so they will need the help. To bad more peole are on the net than read a rag. he just wants to sell paspers

You refuted nothing,I do not talk B.S. Show me one quote where Obama himself said the movie caused the attack. His speech at the U.N says it caused an uproar in the ME, nowhere in this speech does he directly blame the movie.

Even libs know how full of @!$%# this is haha. How can you libs try and erase what everybody saw and herd him say for 2 weeks after the incident? You people are out of your minds!!!

Romney in a landslide. There arnt enough of you nut jobs to avoid it now.

Oh and way to digress kornfed. You can not blame Obama,Period. Sorry about the last sentence ran out of time.lol But the point is clear.

Even libs know how full of @!$%# this is haha. How can you libs try and erase what everybody saw and herd him say for 2 weeks after the incident? You people are out of your minds!!!

You keep talking but not proving, Show me! Do not tell me. Why bring everybody else into this, I am talking to you kornfed. Show me where he directly blames the movie,you will not because he did not say it himself. I do not go by what others say, whether they are on his side or not

You people are out of your minds!!!

Please sir show me in quotes where he says this.

Kornfed,

I love your choice of words! "Coward!" Exactly what gives you the right to use that word for our President? What event? Certainly not Libya where Ryan and his committee voted to cut funding for support and protection of our embassies? Who is the Coward here?

Talk about your Blind Love!" Just to show you, I lost my blind love for the republican party after voting for Nixon, Goldwater, Nixon and Reagan. This party is what Ike warned us about. The party controlled by the "Military Industrial Complex." Are you that blind with Romney wanting to give the Pentagon $2,000,000,000,000 it hasn't asked for to start another war?

look to Mass. We have friends there who are republicans and Romney is trailing by 17% to 15% depending on the poll. That is because the people in his home state know what a liar he is and that the things he claims to have done there are all lies. Those republican friends will be voting for Obama as they are not Blind to the truth!

clwyd-2621393

Kornfed,

I love your choice of words! "Coward!" Exactly what gives you the right to use that word for our President? What event? Certainly not Libya where Ryan and his committee voted to cut funding for support and protection of our embassies? Who is the Coward here?

I am an American citizen in a free country. That is what gives me the right sir! O'bama is a COWARD! A lying COWARD!

@kornfed'

what everybody saw and herd him say for 2 weeks after the incident?

Your lips move but I cant hear what you are saying.

I read the whole speech three times and not once does he say this movie was directly involved in the attack. What most fail to realize is that the chaos caused by this film gave them opportunity to attack , so I believe this movie did help motivate this attack, this is a very sensible conclusion.The timing of this was not coincidence/ I could almost gaurantee you that the Imams and the Islamist in this area motivated the people to riot over this film that day,then seized their opportunity to attack the consulate, as we all know most criminals are opportunist.

Now show me, not one has yet to do so in days.

That is what gives me the right sir! O'bama is a COWARD! A lying COWARD!

Yes and in his latest U,N speech you will see where he says he will defend that right for you to call him coward. Almost verbatim. Check it.

If I did not respect your opinion I would not answer to it.

Coral Taxi

Your lips move but I cant hear wghat you are saying.

This might explain your selective memory problems.

Why is the "filmmaker" in jail until after the election Coral? Why do we even know about this notorious film?

@kornfed;

Part of Obamas U.N speech on Bhengazi

"I accept that people are going to call me awful things every day, and I will always defend their right to do so. Americans have fought and died around the globe to protect the right of all people to express their views – even views that we disagree with."

You see sir Obama will defend your right to call him coward just as I would,but that does not make you right. Seems you can not show me where Obama blames the film directly. I believe I have proven my points to explicitly.

Why is the "filmmaker" in jail until after the election Coral? Why do we even know about this notorious film?

It seems violation of his probation.

Nakoula had met with federal probation officers on Sept. 14 about whether his involvement in the film violated the terms of his probation, which barred him from accessing the internet without prior approval and from using any name other than his legal name.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=obama%20administration%20blames%20video&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CCUQtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DMjXchS56GEg&ei=mjeNUNiEEcni0gG19IGgDg&usg=AFQjCNF03n01ZEvv_yKlG3H-WE4c0JfhKQ

When Obama does cut the Military down and defense jobs, they can go on welfare and stand on the unemployment line like the rest of Americans who cannot find jobs. Obama lied about about the sequestration:

In that light, seems like a pretty smart move for Gov. Allen to emphasize an issue that’s both state-specific and nationally significant, and if there’s one common issue to which the extra-swingy Northern Virginians can all relate, it’s the upcoming defense cuts. The upper counties are chock-full of bureaucrats and defense workers, so the defense cuts really hit home with this crowd. During Monday night’s foreign-policy debate, one of President Obama’s more popular moments was when he bizarrely claimed to be certain that the sequestration won’t actually be happening (how he knows this, when nobody else seems to, remains unclear), underscoring the political weight the issue holds.

You know what amazes me is most do not trust Lawyers but THE Lawyers do not trust the Obama's so they took away the License's from both of them to practice law. BUT yet many here still want to vote for them, says much for your thinking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfiUQASpVdc&feature=player_detailpage

@kornfed;

You still fail to show me where Obama says this. Rice could of been using this as a decoy to throw the Islamists off. When the sherriff comes on at the beginning of an investigation he/she does not share all of their information on the case,this gives advantage to the bad guys. Now are they all liars or are they trying to solve the case?

I would say the latter, but we digress. The main point is that Obama did not make these calls generals and SODS did. yOu never ansewerd my question would go against two top generals in the area, and your SODs advice ? You keep skirting all I lay in front of you, and digressing from the main point of the blame game.

I dont blame you it is a lost cause for you sir.

Coral Taxi

@kornfed;

You still fail to show me where Obama says this. Rice could of been using this as a decoy to throw the Islamists off. When the sherriff comes on at the beginning of an investigation he/she does not share all of their information on the case,this gives advantage to the bad guys. Now are they all liars or are they trying to solve the case?

You are hopeless Coral.

i find it funny the closer we get to the vote the more the losing side trash talks on here , and by the looks of it Obama is really hurting. it is also funny that you would think that if Obama was doing such a good job as some people on here claim that his record would speak for itself and he would be way a head in the polls.

You are hopeless Coral.

This is the best you have sir? I have shown you others made the call not Obama. I have shown you why one would keep what they know to themselves as to not impede the investigation,or put the bad guy on the run. Not lying sir!

You tell me Obama HIMSELF said this attack was a direct result of the movie. Yet you can not show me one quote where he does, and I am hopeless?

I laid down facts and example in front of you, and you rehash news talk shows.lol If we believe all we hear on those biased outlets we would all be fools sir. That was great point in the last post, you just disregard.

Now 3 times

Wouild you go against the advice of two top commanders in the are and your SODs advice? Why can you not answer this ?

If you do not answer, you sir are the true coward.

Because you know as president you would not deploy troops into what your commanders and your SOD are telling you is an unkown situation. Did we handle this correctly maybe not, but you surely can not blame Obama for these deaths period.

@rocky;

You know what amazes me is most do not trust Lawyers but THE Lawyers do not trust the Obama's so they took away the License's from both of them to practice law. BUT yet many here still want to vote for them, says much for your thinking.

You know what amazes me is how many will lie and post things are not true. So much for our thinking Rocky?lol

Q: Did Barack and Michelle Obama “surrender” their law licenses to avoid ethics charges?

A: No. A court official confirms that no public disciplinary proceeding has ever been brought against either of them, contrary to a false Internet rumor. By voluntarily inactivating their licenses, they avoid a requirement to take continuing education classes and pay hundreds of dollars in annual fees. Both could practice law again if they chose to do so.

Now what rocky?lol

@mugglit;

people on here claim that his record would speak for itself and he would be way a head in the polls

Nobody is defending Obamas past record, my post show the unfiarness of the blame. ,the point is we are moving forward now why stop?

FORWARD get it sir.

Coral Taxi

You are hopeless Coral.

This is the best you have sir? I have shown you others made the call not Obama. I have shown you why one would keep what they know to themselves as to not impede the investigation,or put the bad guy on the run. Not lying sir!

You tell me Obama HIMSELF said this attack was a direct result of the movie. Yet you can not show me one quote where he does, and I am hopeless?

I posted one of O'bama, Coral. Remember, O'bama only speaks in generalities himself on this matter. This includes his reference to terrorist attacks on the White House lawn the day after....Show him the transcript Candy!!!! A President uses his press Secretary, among others, to state thier positions. O'bama will not answer these questions directly, this has been very clear now. He lost a major Democratic endorsement from the Des Monies Iowan newspaper over it. COWARD!

Wouild you go against the advice of two top commanders in the are and your SODs advice? Why can you not answer this ?

If you do not answer, you sir are the true coward.

We are not debating the semantics of what O'bama did, should have done, or could have done. We dont know these answers because he will not speak about them!!!!!!!! We are debating why he blamed this on a video. WHY? Why, when he received information about this attack while it was occuring! We now know this as fact! He will have to answer to this eventually, even if he somehow does get reelected. He is hiding something. Anyone with any logical thinking would come to that conclusion.

I do envy you for one thing...you found true unconditional love. You are a lucky man Coral! Its once in a lifetime!

@kornfed;

Now are they all liars or are they trying to solve the case?

You failed to answer to this point also.

We are not debating the semantics of what O'bama did, should have done, or could have done. We dont know these answers because he will not speak about them!!!!!!!! We are debating why he blamed this on a video. WHY?

Really? You have yet to show me where he himself as you say blamed the video on the attack. Show me in quotes where he does this and we can move on.You will not.

Now you are telling me he will not speak of them> This is not semantics sir my questions are clear and consice. My points are clear also. You have yet to refute or prove one thing you have said.

@Coral Taxi,

While I understand your aversion to the Christian Science Monitor as a source for unbiased news. I would think that the information would be more important than the source.

"Is the Monitor a religious publication?

No, it’s a real news organization owned by a church – The First Church of Christ, Scientist, in Boston, Mass., USA. Everything in the Monitor is international and US news and features, except for one religious article in the weekly magazine and Daily News Briefing – a version of which has appeared each day since 1908, at the request of the Monitor’s founder, Mary Baker Eddy.
In an age of corporate conglomerates dominating the news media, the Monitor’s combination of church ownership, public-service mission, and commitment to covering the world (not to mention the fact that it was founded by a woman shortly after the turn of the 20th century, when US women didn’t yet have the vote!) gives the Monitor a uniquely independent voice in journalism.

How does the Monitor compare to other media outlets covering international news?

Unlike most US news organizations, the Monitor does not rely primarily on wire services, like AP and Reuters, for its international coverage. We have writers based in 11 countries, including Russia, China, France, the UK, South Africa, Mexico, and India, as well as throughout the US." Source -http://www.csmonitor.com/About/The-Monitor-difference

Here is another link with almost the same info. Though it is sadly lacking a couple of key points. Be that as it may I do hope that this one is more palatable to you.

EXCLUSIVE: CIA operators were denied request for help during Benghazi attack, sources say

By Jennifer Griffin

Published October 26, 2012

FoxNews.com

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/26/cia-operators-were-denied-request-for-help-during-benghazi-attack-sources-say/#ixzz2AbXYqUq1

./sigh Just goes to show what pretentious lieing sacks of **** politicians can be. Hey blow hard, these cuts, and others were agreed by Congress, to be part of the automatic cuts that would take effect if the super committee failed to come to any resolutions after a year of temp budgets, gridlock, and no agreements whatsoever which finally lead to S&P downgrading the US credit rating. Remember those? It had nothing to do with Obama; it had EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE FAILURE OF CONGRESS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ISLE.

So quit you squabling and complaining which created the situation in the first place, as Sarah Palin would say put your man pants on, and suck it up like a man. Yes, your party Mitt is in part responsible for those cuts taking effect, because they, along with the other party couldn't sit down and talk like adults, because they got too partisan, like look you are right now. It is behavior such as your own from the parties, which is responsible. So get off the waaaa-mbulance, and grow the f- up already, sheesh :o

@kornfed;

when he received information about this attack while it was occuring! We now know this as fact!

Your point is? o.k lets say he was recieving info from his two generals in the region and the SOD, they say we do not even know what is happening sir, we do not suggest deployment, what do you do kornfed?

Just tell me what you would do,this is not a right or wrong answer , but you can lay blame so easy on others I would like to know what you would have done.

He is hiding something. Anyone with any logical thinking would come to that conclusion.

Maybe he was hiding facts from terrorist sir, but you surely can not translate this into him pourposely misleading us, and lying, why do you ignore this point? He did not go to bed knowing this was going to happen, did he wake up find out, and say,hmmm how can I hide this from America.lol

Now without digressing a straight answer please.

I just think Mitt is retarded and sneaky.....He will say and do anything to win the election........and as I said to the God quoting, smoke and mirrors, ignorant repugs above yesterday.....I'll go toe to toe with you about ANY issue........because unlike you I base my decisions on fact.....not word vomit....

nuadormrac;

So quit you squabling and complaining which created the situation in the first place,

What fun would that be?lol

A President uses his press Secretary, among others, to state thier positions

You said he said it himself, as far as Rice, I already explained to you this could have been to throw the Islamist off ,make them rest easier, not to lie to the American public. I did not ignore this I answered to it.

I can't wait until the election is over. So many lies on BOTH sides, when will politicians stop acting like we are all idiots believing their BS. And yes I did vote time to get a new Liar In Chief.

Wow!!! The nasty, ruthless libbies are really coming out in full force as the election gets closer and closer!!Just look at all the half truths, ginormous exaggerations and bald faced LIES, not to mention the extreme and totally disgusting attacks on personal character, ethics and morals of repubs!!! Seems like the nastier they get is directly related to their fear factor. Running scared that Obama is gonna go down in flames and won't rise from the ashes of his own destruction!!! I find it really amusing how all these pro Obama posters don't have much good to say about their false prophet, their messiah but they prefer to lie, deflect, blame former leaders etc..

Obama had no good valid reason to LIE for dys on end about the video being the cause of the Benghazi nightmare!!!! READ the aricles about Obama and Bidens sickening behavior towards the father of one of the four needlessly murder by a planned terrorist atack that they were warned about BEFORE it ever happened.

HOW DARE Obama fail to look this father in the eye and disrespect him and his son with his lies, deflection and his completey insincere condolences??!!!!!

HOW DARE crazy, awakward, grinning loon BIDEN aproach this man with his big loud mouth and ask this grieving father if his son ALWAYS HAD BALLS THE SIZE OF CUEBALLS!!!!!! BIden made fool of himself in the debate but he was a complete and udder MORON towards this father and this pig is what DEMS WANT A HEARTBEAT AWAY FROM THE PRESIDENCY????? Is this disgsting SOB the measure of what a world leader is??? IF my mnd hadn't already bee nmaede up about the screw up failures these two morons had been this would have clinched the deal!!!!!

@kornfed; You fault the current administration for avoiding the tough questions,but yet here today yao have done the same yourself. Because you know the logical answers will not match your view sir. THis painfully obvious.

When the sherriff comes on at the beginning of an investigation he/she does not share all of their information on the case,this gives advantage to the bad guys. Now are they all liars or are they trying to solve the case?

Answer here; No digresssion allowed.

Your point is? o.k lets say he was recieving info from his two generals in the region and the SOD, they say we do not even know what is happening sir, we do not suggest deployment, what do you do kornfed?

answer here; No digression allowed.

@skewedworld;

Wow!!! The nasty, ruthless libbies are really coming out in full force as the election gets closer and closer!!Just look at all the half truths, ginormous exaggerations and bald faced LIES, not to mention the extreme and totally disgusting attacks on personal character, ethics and morals of repubs!!!

Wow sir, as far as I am concerned you will not find any of what I have said as half truths, or lies. You also will not find one personal attack on others in my post

The nasty, ruthless libbies

Really can not say the same for you sir.lol

Coral Taxi

you are trying very hard to sell a product that a lot of people just are not buying. and as for moving forward and not stopping. we are hanging on a cliff it Obama was to get another 4 years do you think he would care what happens ? funny how he didnt care much until time to run again.

mug - your simplistic version of what is going on is compaible to your brain power being able to toast bread lightly

Coral Taxi

@kornfed; You fault the current administration for avoiding the tough questions,but yet here today yao have done the same yourself. Because you know the logical answers will not match your view sir. THis painfully obvious.

I have gone as far as I can with you on this. I will let what has been said stand as the argument for others to judge.

you are trying very hard to sell a product that a lot of people just are not buying

Umm no. The same as I did with Ron Paul. I will do with Romney both would and will be dangerous for our country. I am trying to keep Romney from being elected, more than trying to sell you something. The last few weeks I have made many valid points on blame placed wrongly on Obama,this is not defending the past but trying for the future.

Romneys tax plan will not work,he is not respected by the world and has already lost respect of some major world leaders . Pakistan is the only one out of 21 countries that would like to see him win what does that tell you sir?

He wants to add ships at a time where no other country is even in the same universe as our navy.

He wishes to allow top mountain removal, even at the chance it could pollute aquifers, thank goodness that was stopped by Obama. His plan will be for the rich and add to the deficit and raise taxes on middle class.This has been proven by non biased tax experts. Health care would be much harder to attain. Big banks will be allowed to regulate and fee you death once again. The rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer.It is written and proven.

He is dangerous to my countries health, I live by facts, not conjecture sir.

skrewdworld

Wow!!! The nasty, ruthless libbies are really coming out in full force as the election gets closer and closer!!Just look at all the half truths, ginormous exaggerations and bald faced LIES,

You want to talk about lies? Have you seen the pathetic measures that Team Romney has done with Photoshopping pics?

Here, let me show you one from his Tumblr account.

http://mittromney.tumblr.com/image/34185077128

Notice anything odd in the bottom picture? Ceiling supports that fade into nothing, Duplicate people pasted to look like there were more there than what really was? A 2 year old could have done a better job faking this pic. It's like Romney took a page from Iran's missile launcher 'shopping.

@kornfed;

I have gone as far as I can with you on this. I will let what has been said stand as the argument for others to judge.

There will be no winner in our "debate" today sir. I would just like you to answer the two questions I posed to you. You accuse others of avoidance yet will not answer two fair questions. This is between you and I , I am just trying to make my points,not really trying to "win" something.

With the exception of Rice being Obamas mouthpiece, you really have not backed any other points up, and as I told you this was not Obama saying it directly as you accused him of. I also pointed out even if you were right, the perception of "lying to us" and not showing his cards or throwing the Islamist is surely arguable.

@PeterDean,

RE: "mug - your simplistic version of what is going on is compaible to your brain power being able to toast bread lightly"

muglitt stated his opinion without Bull Sh!t name calling, personal attacks, insults and drama.

Re: "........and as I said to the God quoting, smoke and mirrors, ignorant repugs above yesterday.....I'll go toe to toe with you about ANY issue........because unlike you I base my decisions on fact.....not word vomit...." You came into this thread looking to pick a fight and start the same arsanine b!tchboy nonsense that you did yesterday! At LEAST add some SUBSTANCE to your tough guy wanna be tirades

How does yours contribute to the topic and conversation?

Answer: It Doesn't...............Report This Item As:

Inflammatory

No Value

News Vine Code Of Honor

2. Harassment and/or intimidation of others on Newsvine will not be tolerated,
and patterns of such behavior may result in account cancellation.

Peter,

I know it can be fun to banter and bait and trade insults a bit and we all do it at times but everyone of your posts that I have seen the last 2 days has been totally hostile. Not debating, no clever comments, no witty and humorous snarky comments. Just pure venom and vitriol with what appears to be an effort to impose your will on others and/or possibly turn people away altogether. Yes I noticed the right wing crazy person that you were sparring with yesterday. He was a PITA as well as being out of line in how he spoke with you as well.

people you need to ask yourself this, if Obama is such a great President why is he not running away with it this time around ?if he has help so many why aren't they backing him? and if Romney is so bad then how could he even come close to winning? and if you think unemployment is high now, what happens when you cut the military, what about all those that were in that will be looking for jobs?

@Chris from Yucaipa,

You had 2 really great posts (to me) today. I didn't know until recently that you served for 13 years in the Navy. I just wanted to take a moment and say: Thank You Sir :) I saw the 2 tours in the Gulf but other than the fact that they were difficult I hope that they were good years when you look back on them.

I was supposed to go as an ASM in the DEP. Last words out of Senior Chiefs mouth before he left "Don't Get Hurt Knuckle Head. I being a "Genius" teen decided at 165 lbs. to try and out muscle an animal that was 1200 lbs. Would you believe that I lost :) I still can't understand what could have possibly gone wrong ;)

peterdean:

name calling is truly a sign of a ignorant and weak mind.

I guess....But stupid is incurable.......

@muglitt

RE: "what happens when you cut the military, what about all those that were in that will be looking for jobs?"

Don't forget all of the civilian contractors providing support services plus products and materials to our Military. Nor the fact that the world is a virtual powderkeg waiting to blow up if anything goes wrong at this time. Middle East, Africa......all a potential Sh!t Storm and not an umbrella in sight. As is our people are stressed out, exhausted and in need of OUR help for a change. Lets just show our gratitude by suddenly dumping them and their families on unemployment in a crappy job market flooded with those that are already unemployed! ;) Add to that the fact that employers are showing fear of hiring them due to potential PTSD and ask ourselves.........How heartless can we possibly be?

Howard -

What issue would you like to discuss? Is that repectful enough for you? Don't pipe up unless you have something to say....Mug poked a nerve yesterday relaying innacurate and false information.......But I will gladly debate you....I will await your words of "wisdom".......

PeterDean,

Now thats the spirit :)

Your Comeback was a fair retort and rather funny as well.

See how nice this is? I'm a Moderate (raised a strict Democrat) with Conservative and Liberal values, you appear to be a Progressive and muglitt appears to be a tad on the Conservative side.

Can I interest either of you in a group hug or a round of Kumbaya maybe? :)

Get over yourself already Chris. The exact same things can be said about Obama. And BTW that's ALL you can come up with in response??? Pitiful, and PROVES my point!!!

Peter Dean post #1.194, take out Mitt and insert Oblunder, then your post would be accurate!!

Coral-I have the world's smallest violin prepared to play a sad tune for you when your sainted Liar-in-chief LOSES the election!!

Chris, Peter, Coral-you all prove my point with your nastiness!!! NOTHING to say at all about Obama's failure in showing any sincerity and Bidens disgustingly idiot remark to Mr. Woods??? I bet you'll claim you never read any of the articles about their ridicuousness.I'd bet your just to afraid to admit that your choice of leaders are nothing but a huge train wreck and only good at dividing the nation!!!!!

And yes, I'm being nasty as well! That's ALL you people understand. Rational and fair disussion is beyond what your one tracked brainwashed minds can comprehend!!!

'

You are right Howard we should maintain WAR military levels....This will help our economy.....yeppers...forgetting about the good old tax burden of all that....Which no one wants to pay for Iraq (you noticed the timing with which it went on the books and all).....what exactly is your proposal? Didn't Eisenhower...you know the General/President...state that "beware of the military industrial machine"...........I know he wouldn't know anything about the military and all but the reality is that our budget, for defence, is greater than all the budgets combined of the next ten largest global powers...combined.....Wow...amazing...Let me guess you are military or x-military.....so am I.......So don't play this how could we cut 50K jobs from the Military but GM should have fallen (1 million jobs)....It is called the efficiency cost to income ratio.....Do you not understand fiscal responsibility? Or is it just some fiscal responsibility...at convenience....Better idea to shred medicare....right? Social Darwinism for the old people........Or as Mitt likes to put a 20% tax cut across the board as we now become burdened with our elderly families medical expenses.....I know you don't like the way I put things, but being x-military, I expect you to put on your big boy pants and not be so sensitive about it.........You have looked into the veteran benefits that have been slated for cutting by your house repugs?....Get a clue man...this isn't about your gut....It is about what is.....

skrewdworld

Everything you just said has 0% substance? What are to speaking of? You can go to my profile and a full understanding of history and how our economy works is there...in something not well understood on these threads "Real Terms" .......Because even though what you said doesn't really say anything.......You obviously think more of yourself than you are.....

@skewedworld;

Coral-I have the world's smallest violin prepared to play a sad tune for you when your sainted Liar-in-chief LOSES the election!!

I do not live and die by who is in office sir, my life will go on as usual no matter who wins. My plea is for Americans in need, and those with sons and daughters in the miltary. Romney is a dangerous choice, he has proven just to be a face man,with specious words. His tax plans have been proven mathematically impossible.

Chris, Peter, Coral-you all prove my point with your nastiness!!!

Look here brother,you will find no "nastiness" in my post here today, or months back, I use facts and example to prove my points with a few quips or jabs thrown in, but no "nastiness".

And yes, I'm being nasty as well! That's ALL you people understand. Rational and fair disussion is beyond what your one tracked brainwashed minds can comprehend!!!

Umm me nad kornfed just had a long argument without "nastiness",that is why we can go at eachother for a long time now as we do.

@howard44024

Thank you for that comment sir. Much appreciated.

@skrewdworld

Get over yourself already Chris. The exact same things can be said about Obama.

I simply posted a pic. Are you defending his photoshopping? Show me one that Obama has done. Otherwise STFU please.

Coral brother......I jut get tired of repeating myself on facts.....I was in Louisiana a couple weeks ago and the mechanic restoring one of my cars said....It shouldn't matter that BO is Muslim....and he was right it shouldn't matter......but the problem is BO is not Muslim....My irritation at stupid lately has become elevated....People believe what they hear.....Not what is true........That retard Trump received all this attention over nothing.....@skrewdworld that is why he isn't "running away" with the election......Financial crisis that stopped growth dead in 08'.....every retard that has a conspiracy theory and few bucks gets air time....and then there are people like you that use the "Hussein" comment because you just don't like him and want to propagate false rumors or imply he is from somewhere else or he has something in common with terrorists....It is people like you that are part of the problem.....How can anybody digest the truth if a soulless individuals such as yourself would rather just make insinuations....instead of sticking with policy and fact.....I just have one question for you....and this is truly why Romney is on the outs with me...How does Romney plan on achieving his fantasy-land agenda? What tax loops will he close? Just give me some food on plate instead of BS.......Like you, Mitt has 0% substance

@peterdean:

Mug poked a nerve yesterday relaying innacurate and false information.......But I will gladly debate you....I will await your words of "wisdom".......

the word is inaccurate in the first place, and second what false and/or false information are you talking about?

@PeterDean,

Your first comment was thrown out in a 360' pattern which looks allot like bait. It was not aimed at muglitt.

What issue would you like to discuss? - I never stated that I would like to discuss or debate anything with you Sir. I just watched a (ahem) Spirited, witty, snarky and mostly good natured (got a little sporty at times but still cool) debate between 2 guys that are known for being pretty good at it. I saw you on the other thread dealing with that right wing radical nut case yesterday and left instead of participating. Many of us do this because we don't feel like dealing with the BullSh!t. If people just want to F#$k around "Get A Room". News Vine Has a Code of Honor for when things get stupid and their Get Smarter Here motto is here for a reason as well.

Being respectful isn't required towards me as I'll let you know when I've had enough :)

"But I will gladly debate you" - I don't debate. I only Spar in real life and not with words and no longer in a ring or on mats. Street only. Besides no point as I sense that we would only argue. I'm your typical high IQ low EQ human male. If logic and reason don't work quickly I tend to go to the other option. So I don't need the aggravation with no outlet for it as the Internet does not allow for this.

"will await your words of "wisdom"......." - Then you Sir shall have a long wait. Though my IQ is 143. My Comment: "I being a "Genius" teen decided at 165 lbs. to try and out muscle an animal that was 1200 lbs. Would you believe that I lost :) I still can't understand what could have possibly gone wrong ;)" Should be all the proof that I need in this regard. IQ does not translate to wisdom. The only difference is I weigh 195lbs and went up to a 30" waist. still only 5'7" to 5'8"

"Don't pipe up unless you have something to say" - Or What? Can you stop me? No that's highly doubtful as there is a reason that I have scars (blades, bullet, clubs, boots etc.) from head to toe an attitude and am still alive (for awhile yet at least) at just shy of 46. Besides I did have something to say and did so. I would suggest letting it go as I was actually rather pleasant with you comparatively speaking anyway.

BTW - I suppose your response means the Group Hug and Kumbaya thing is a NO..................HUH? :)Thats OK as you guys don't play well with others anyway.

I'm sorry I didn't invoke spell check for you......I do run a very large business that employs many people....so it kinda takes precedent over this.......But I wont forget next time...just for you..

This comment - the point is the Democrats are the ones who everyone believes are for the poor and raising taxes on the rich. now don't you think it is kind of hard to believe that someone is going to pass a law that well cause them to lose money.

That is wrong 100%....The dems have been trying to stop the Bush tax cuts for several years....they are only for the rich. The Repugs have tied it to the payroll tax cut for small business which means the Repugs wont let small business have a tax cut unless the rich get one too......It is kinda like holding someone hostage......But very wrong you are

Well Howard it sounds like to me that your IQ went down when your muscle mass went up.......Physical assault insinuations only arise when the frustration of not being able to out wit the other person takes over.... as far as politics....your parents where defiantly smarter......and alas....Since no one will put food on my plate....but silliness and nonsense.....and Howard......I just react....but I don't feel like I have to prove alpha male on the Internet.....Really isn't the proper venue.....LOLZ....The funniest troll all day was defiantly you.....You know what is funny Howard....I am just as vocal and opinionated in RL and I happen live in the South......

and Huggs for you Howard.....Good sport all and all

ok really and why didn't the Democrats do so in the 1st two years Obama was President when they had control of of everything ? oh that is right it was more important to come up with a new tax call Obamacare. which was pushed through without a single Republican vote. my other point was that of the top 19 richest members of congress more are Democrats then Republicans and it is highly unlikely that they will raise taxes on themselves when they vote themselves a raise every single year.

No. 19: Rep. Nita Lowey, D-N.Y.

Personal wealth: $41.2 million

No. 18: Rep. Jim Renacci, R-Ohio

Personal wealth: $42.1 million

No. 17: Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen, R-N.J.

Personal wealth: $42.9 million

No. 16: Rep. Gary Miller, D-Calif.

Personal wealth: $46 million

No. 15: Rep. Kenny Marchant, R-Texas

Personal wealth: $49.3 million

No. 14: Sen. James Risch, R-Idaho

Personal wealth: $54.1 million

No. 13: Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn.

Personal wealth: $59.6 million

No. 12: Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif.

Personal wealth: $69 million

No. 11: Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn.

Personal wealth: $73.2 million

No. 10: Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J.

Personal wealth: $85.6 million

No. 9: Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va.

Personal wealth: $99.1 million

No. 8: Rep. Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.

Personal wealth: $101.1 million

No. 7: Rep. Vern Buchanan, R-Fla.

Personal wealth: $136.2 million

No. 6: Rep. Jared Polis, D-Colo.

Personal wealth: $143.2 million

No. 5: Sen. Herb Kohl, D-Wis.

Personal wealth: $173.5 million

No. 4: Sen. Mark Warner, D-Va.

Personal wealth: $192.7 million

No. 3: Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass.

Personal wealth: $231.7 million

Kerry was his party's standard-bearer in the 2004 presidential election, losing to incumbent George W. Bush. Kerry's net worth has declined 16% in the wake of the Great Recession.

In 1995, the senator's wealth increased with his marriage to his second wife, Teresa, the widow of former U.S. Sen. John Heinz.

No. 2: Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Texas

Personal wealth: $380.4 million

No. 1: Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif.

Personal wealth: $448.1 million

and that is because you do not understand character or integrity.......I am voting for a tax increase to myself...If you look at the post yesterday it clearly explains why.......I think you should watch some cspan so you can understand how government works a little better how timely things happen and why......Why ACA was prioritized...Maybe because it was a major platform he ran on but I think you are confusing the issue...remember we had bailouts and economic melt down...Remember...I think at the time they were trying to save our economy...but you wouldn't know anything about that....They should have stopped and fought the repugs for the tax cuts...forget the economy no biggie......Why don't you look at the legislature passed....Financial reform, ACA...saving GM....etc..So when they were done with damage control and fulfilling one of his major campaign promises.....then they tried to end the Bush temporary tax cuts for the rich...Now read those words aloud....Even Bush was smart enough to call them temporary....So genius.....What are you trying to say?.....and ACA only made it through because we had some Independents on our side.....Remember that when you start with the dem force through crap....Why don't you try to gather some information that is real......I really believe you just regurgitate what Hannity says......and yes I watch all news channels....So I can maintain proper perspective.....

@PeterDean,

I did not imply physical violence toward you. I simply stated why I don't debate. I do not do p!ssing contests or usually play name calling except when joking around. Even there I try and be decent until I know who and/or what I am dealing with.

My statement was though my Intelligence Quotient is 143 my Emotive Quotient (if you are familiar with the theory) is no where near as high. I don't play word games and name calling. The expression: I don't suffer fools gladly" (at least when on a serious subject) though very rude and crass as well as being an understatement probably sums it up best. While Mechanical Engineering (and some Civil) was what I went to college for the elective classes that I thought that I would hate Economics-(any and especially), marketing, management, finance, etc. ended up being the only reason I ever made the Dean's List and what I ended up returning to in actual work. Pssst - I was over-muscled, sparred and coached in college as well.

Alpha Male is usually displayed by trying to impose your will (by aggression) on others over their own whether verbally or physically itr does not matter . This applies in the animal kingdom and our world as well. If you are implying me that is unlikely as my Ex would tell you that though I may wear the pants she picked them out. I just have a problem with rude nasty behaviour. It is the reason that most of my friends are not male. Woman are much better at communicating without aggravating and being stupid. They tell me its the testosterone that gets in the way (and they can fix that problem......somehow:)

My politics? For the record I gave Senator Obama in 2004 during his speech at the DNC my word that if he runs I would vote for him. I had 3 windows open digging up all that I could on him (I especially noted that he did NOT support or approve of the Patriot Act and he was refreshingly decent and the kind of person that would be a joy to be around also having come up the hard way he should know what works and what needs fixing as well as how to reduce waste and help people get off of it) while compiling my email that I sent before his speech was quite finished. By the end of the DNC I had 4 votes ( Hell even my Rottweiler and Wolf Dog were sold on the idea) by the time I went to bed I had at least a dozen people converted. By 2008 I lost count of how many people I had "Sold" the idea to. Many of my Republican friends (whom now I either hide from or wear a Chastity Belt for my arse when around;) ) even climbed aboard the Magic Bus. Many joined up when he talked about Mandatory Service for all.

I have the Audacity of Hope (read and loaned often) and just bought Dreams of My Father - David above from the Army recommends it ( its been a week and I'm now on page 2 as its a real page turner......) Your welcome to borrow them if ya want.

BTW - For 2012 I don't have anyone that I am pleased with when it comes to the POTUS job. I love the first family and care about Barack as a human being and wish them all the best but I have some issues with him saying one thing and not following through. Nothing against him personally though other than feeling a little cheap and tawdry

What you said was totally alpha male.....LOLZ........I have a wolf dog too...See my pic?......You call what I say nasty but half of these guys are here because FOX news comments have been shut down...So they come here and try to spin loosely relevant facts that are quite gray........As far as suffering fools that is pretty much the way I feel at this point and has been lending to my temperament you included...and I am quite glad you know how to cut and paste definitions from the dictionary.........Still no one has given me a real reason why Romney's plans for our future is beneficial to the common US citizen......I believe the economic policies of BO are allowing us to grow again and like many others would like it to be fast but come on.......In 08' the disposable income of the middle class was destroyed (devalued equity and retirement accounts by 1.6 trillion to be factual).........So what do you do? And how is what Romney doing going to fix the middles class debt to income ratio problem so our biggest consumer can spend (this is the heart of the problem)? And how have Obama's policies made it better or worse? I can explain every point with historical references....Remember smarty pants all of these things have been done before to a greater or lesser extent........Maybe you can flex for me........

You may be a moderate but your friends sure don't seem to be

Just execute illegal aliens on the spot. Let
nature clean up the mess. - By Sonar Guy

Ashamed to call myself an STS(SS) because of this guy

I question your moderate claims

Romney doesn't want defense cuts, because he and his right-wing buddies (in the military-industrial defense manufacturing complex that Eisenhower warned us about) wants the U.S. to go to war against all of the Islamic world's population of 2.1 billion because they're not of the Christian faith like he and his buddies. He also wants a war against Iran, as well as a war against China and a return to the Cold War Era against Russia.

The kind of defense expenditures he and Ryan want, would require a resumption of the Draft (packaged in the form of a proposed mandatory government service law), to conscript every single able-bodied American to fight and die in such a mixed-strategic ground, sea and air war, as well as a nuclear war standoff waged on several major fronts throughout the globe.

They want this global apocalypse/Armageddon to occur, because they believe they are helping God's prophesies come true in their belief in the, "End Times."

Kornfed

There is certain people that good Americans know to temper their tongue. So in light of your comment I will tell you that Romney's telling auto workers in Ohio that Jeep was closing and moving its plant to China is a lie from a real lying " A Hole!" Along with his moderate here, conservative there, flip-flop stances when he is with different crowds it really makes him a lying B--stard! Also, a member of a religious cult to the beliefs of many Church groups in America. Catholics are number one who say it and with members of the same Mormon Church in our family I can attest to it.

Ummm Peter are you SURE that you have the right guy?

"You may be a moderate but your friends sure don't seem to be"

While I'm aware of Sonar Guy I have not had any personal confrontations with him and he is not my friend.

My Friends on News Vine Are:

Michael
(Astronomy.FM , Chris from Yucaipa, TFNJ, myspellcheckerisbroken, David Walker, David Walker -sadly he has left the Vine I know that he did not care for d!cks either.

Every one of them are Democrats and some are more Liberal than others. Chris is VERY common sense oriented but definitely for President Obama (I'm pretty sure they all are actually). One thing I do know is everyone of them are good people who's opinions I respect even when I disagree - (which isn't very often btw) . "Absorb what is useful. Reject what is useless, but before you do make sure that you understand why it doesn't work for you" - Tao of Jeet Kune Do' - Version

"Ashamed to call myself an STS(SS) because of this guy - S.S.? So now you admit to being a Nutzi :)

"I question your moderate claims" - Based on my post regarding my Bromance with then Senator Obama you should. I'm Pretty sure the far right and in fact most Republicans are probably about to call me a bleeding heart Liberal Pansy or something not very nice. Kornfed will probably never speak to me much less joke around with me ever again :( .

"What you said was totally alpha male" - Totally wrong. I'm not trying to impose my will verbally or physically on you or anyone else. But it seems that you are.

"and I am quite glad you know how to cut and paste definitions from the dictionary" - If you are referring to my explaining the Alpha Male. Again totally wrong. Took Psych classes and my Ex has a nice degree in Psychology that I benifited from in the past. Let me put it this way.......for fun and sometimes profit I use to work Clydesdales, Feral Mustangs, Rottweillers, Fila Brasileiro (Brazil Jaguar Dog), Quarter Horses and such (point big potentially dangerous animals). Unlike humans I prefer the Males as a rule when its dealing with animals. I refuse to use violence and intimidation with them. I don't use a riding crop or spurs and I don't yell either. I don't so much train as I gentle and ask them to do what I wish. They come to me as friends and company. How long would a person my size last against an Clydesdale that is 17.3 hands and 1700 lbs. using no violence without knowledge of the Alpha or certain dogs.

Hint - I was dealing with a crazy and previously abused ex-race horse that Spooked and I tried to ride it out and calm him down instead of bailing. It was youth and a lack of common sense as well as 0 wisdom that got me hurt. It only takes once for me to learn though.

Plus I've dealt with people all over the world with out any real cultural training. Its easier to be nice, listen and identify, get in their head and then somewhat mirror them than it is to impose my will through aggression and name calling will seldom a deal make (unless I've gotten to know them and we are just "bonding")

"Maybe you can flex for me" - See no matter how nice I try and be you can't even stand to just chat without insults and name calling. Whats next are you gonna ask me to "Spoon" you? :)

As for Mr. Romney don't get me started. Bain is more than just a Venture Capital company. It do some but they are more of a KKR Light - (RJR Nabisco - LBO or the English genleman Sir somebody that went after Goodyear). We have some very good venture capital companies that really do grow local business and create new jobs in Cleveland. Not one of them takes a liquid company and pulls its equity and then sells it off. I'd love a business guy but prefer someone from within the Manufacturing sector. Though at one time I was willing to remove Presidential term limits and appoint Bill (The Gator) Gates King :) As the man can grow a business and anyone that can do what M.S. did while selling Vaporware has got crazy skills. His people skills? Weeelll very difficult to work for or with. Though it would be interesting to see him and Putin establish do the Alpha :)

As I said I can't think of anyone to vote for for POTUS. Gary Chapman has 0 chance and I really dislike his buddy Ron Paul as a human being. Have you heard anything about Larry the Cable Guy running?

With that being said..... I truly hope that you have a wonderful evening and an even better tomorrow. Chatting with you has been interesting and all but I have some other things that need tending to.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/howard-fineman/undecided-voters-guide_b_2025750.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular,health-care

I found this just for you.........

S -Sonar T- Technician S- Submarine (SS) - Submarine qualified........I'm glad you have such respect for our armed services that you refer to there designations as ----......I was going to be pleasant to your infantile ego maniac narcissistic self but I have come to realized that I will enjoy tearing you apart on these blogs....because u really don't have an opinion like real men do........Maybe you can brag about your muscles and IQ for which you have failed to convince me of your grand self......It is like your parents have probably always told you (they are dems)....stop thinking of yourself.....and yet you have said nothing about the direct question....No one asked you your IQ, height, weight, muscle mass or how many bullets or knife wounds you have....Personally I think you have been obtuse and try to imply that your insinuations are something else than what they are as if you have this great intellect that you have failed to apply at any point with in your life......and I also feel that your work environment with bumbling idiots (most likely) makes you feel superior when in fact your wasted potential became exactly that at about 24 years of age...wasted......So thank you...and enjoy your evening is well and know that I am now a little dumber for having this conversation with you......You kind remind me of Mitt....No substance

So what did you mean by this? It isn't alpha male ...right? To be so smart and yet lack the ability to debate....hmmmm...LOLZ .....I'm going to keep your comments for years to come street fighter....LOLZ....my new nickname for you is street fighter

"But I will gladly debate you" - I don't debate. I only Spar in real life and not with words and no longer in a ring or on mats. Street only. Besides no point as I sense that we would only argue. I'm your typical high IQ low EQ human male. If logic and reason don't work quickly I tend to go to the other option. So I don't need the aggravation with no outlet for it as the Internet does not allow for this.

What truly amazes me is that a 46 year old man is out there on the streets fighting.....isn't that something we grow out of like in our 20's?

@PeterDean

It's amusing. When I got out in 2003, I got out as a STG1 (vice the STS mentioned earlier) and I found the humor in the (SS) nutzi comment.

and just one other thing.......If you don't debate why are you here? That is what this is.....just saying...just saying.....I'll watch my back on the streets brother...LOLZ......I'm sorry ....I really do see humour in all this....

(SS) = Submarine Service = Submarine Qualified

So you didn't get your Surface Ships Qual?

Coral,

Look as you might for whatever Kornfed has you searching for, but like me you won't necessarily find it . Kornfed makes up stuff or sees it on one site, FOX, and thinks it is true. It is called brainwashed!

@clwyd;

Thanks for the heads up, but I have dealt with kornfed before, and I know what you mean. He has actually gotten better and did a good job today and found the right counterpoint (once lol) but it still did not match his exact accusataions of Obama saying the attack was a direct result of the film. But I will not cut hairs on it.

My point was more that Obama can not be directly blamed for the deaths as many are spouting. As president he must take responsibilty,and he has said this himself. To say he did not care and that is why they died is just false. My points were mostly ignored,and he never answered to the two fair questions I laid in front of him.

If America elects Romney they won't be electing Bush III; no, more like Nixon II. Romney has setup a nearly perfect copy of Nixon's campaign of dishonesty.

If only we were lucky enough that Romney was "Nixon II." Nixon may have been a crook when it came to politics, but he was far more liberal than Romney (we would have had health reform 40 years ago if Kennedy hadn't blocked it because it wasn't single payor) and he knew how to run a foreign policy. However, Nixon, like Eisenhower and Reagan, would never stand a chance in today's taliban/GOP party.

@Howard,

I appreciate you mentioning me in your post. That will be as high as I can go toward celebrity status, and I thank you for that. And now my 15 minutes of fame is up. Just to clear up, I am a true independent. I did not vote for Barack, but when he spoke of repealing the Patriot Act, I was starting to get on board. Then, he extended it. That was huge for me.

Also, like Chris from Yucaipa, I also like the SS Nutzi comment.

PeterDean

(SS) = Submarine Service = Submarine Qualified

So you didn't get your Surface Ships Qual?

Nope, didn't bother with my ESWS. Had too many other things going on to want to stand the extra watches and assorted other crap required. Besides, ESWS is a political thing onboard ship. Does nothing to show off any real skills you might have acquired.

on a sub if you don't get you get kicked off....it is required....

On my last ship, it was typically the guys who didn't really have a job that did the ESWS. In my case, since I was the leading tech for our gear, I spent most of my onboard ship time either fixing the electronics or trying to train the other guys to do it. End result being, while they ended up with the ESWS pin, I ended up with a half dozen Letters of Commendation, signed by admirals, which counted for more points in the advancement exams.

And I just checked, and ESWS is now mandatory for all enlisted, as of 2010. I got out of the Navy in 2003.

We are different than surface...Sub qual has ALWAYS been required......It is a vetting process on a Sub...you know we are elite....