Perhaps because he bought into the Bush/Cheney lies of "mushroom clouds" and imminent doom???

GOP has launched so many useless wars ..so that defense contractors and weapons manufacturers can make more obscene profits. When the Middle East destailized, oil price goes up, the oil barons make more money.

.

Another problem is the rich make the decision to go to war, but their rich kids get to dodge draft and instead send middle class kids to be canon fodders.

Americans have not benefited from the wars. George Wmd Bush hijacked the entire country to go into Iraq on the false grounds of WMD. Americans have to pay the price of war (paying more taxes and sending their kids to war), but the oil barons get richer because of rising gas prices.

“I was there, I voted against them,” Biden added. “I said, no, we can’t afford that.”

http://www.cfr.org/experts/world/joseph-r-biden-jr/b1451

Afghanistan

Like Barack Obama, Biden says Afghanistan is the "central front" in the war on terror, not Iraq. In a July 2008 speech, Biden said he supports Obama's plan to send two additional combat brigades to Afghanistan. Biden's Senate website says even one additional combat brigade "would make an enormous difference" in Afghanistan.

Biden called the Bush administration's announcement that it will provide $10.2 billion in aid to Afghanistan "a good start—but only a start." In a June 2008 statement on the funding, Biden asked, "Will there be a genuine increase in development aid and will it actually reach the Afghan people? Will the security aid actually be spent improving the police and army? Or will it be siphoned off—as has so often been the case—by well-connected contractors?"

Biden also says the United States needs to provide Afghan farmers with "alternate livelihoods" outside of opium production. "We should be trying to root out the corruption in the Afghan government that lets the druglords operate with complete impunity. We should be taking out refining plants where the narco-barons turn the opium into raw heroin," he says.

Joe Biden is a class act. Put your hate aside and vote a straight Democratic ticket this year!

George W. Bush wanted to exact personal revenge agaisnt Saddam Hussein for Saddam's alleged assassination attempt on Bush Sr., George Wmd's dad.

.

When oil barons, defense contractors, and weapons manufacturers make obscene profits from GOP war-making, they donate money to support the GOP, but sacrificing the greater good of this great nation along the way.

Lets take a look at Biden;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Joe_Biden

Abortion, stem cell research, cloning

Biden voted in favor of overturning Roe v. Wade as a Senator in 1982.

...

He voted in favor of a 1999 bill to ban in most circumstances partial birth abortion^[2] and on the 2003 Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act.^[3] Biden has defended these votes as recently as April 2007.^[4] He has also stated his opposition to federal funding of abortions

LGBT issues

Biden voted in favor of the Defense of Marriage Act^[26] but against the Federal Marriage Amendment.^[27] He supports states rights to establish civil unions.

"Perhaps because he bought into the Bush/Cheney lies of "mushroom clouds" and imminent doom???"

He was the Chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee and he didn't question the Intel?

It appears he was a Democrat that was arguing for invading Iraq.

Iraq

In 2002, as Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he stated that Saddam Hussein was "a long term threat and a short term threat to our national security" and that United States has "no choice but to eliminate the threat".^[47] He also said, "I think Saddam either has to be separated from his weapons or taken out of power."^[48] Biden also supported a failed resolution authorizing military action in Iraq only after the exhaustion of diplomatic efforts,^[49] Biden argued that Saddam Hussein possesses chemical and biological weapons and is seeking nuclear weapons

How about a mandatory age limit in the Congress and Senate and Supreme Court of 50 ..The people over that age seem to be out of touch with whats actually going on ! We thank the men/woman for their service but they need to move on ...One unnamed person is still fighting the Vietnam war, at the taxpayers expense !

Aren't you going to defend Biden for voting to overturn Row vs Wade, voting for a ban on partial birth abortions twice, his opposition against Federal money for abortions, Voting for the Defense of Marriage Act, Arguing for and Voting for invading Iraq?

Don't blame Biden... how senators and reps were brave enough to vote against "patriotic" legislation?

Blame the actual idiots who started those wars !

By 2 idiots who dodged the draft and have never seen a real battlefield !

We get it Noah you hate Dems. Your all Ying and no Yang.

Magic TKBC, You win the award for biggest blow-hard ignorant douche -bag of the day. I will only point out one factually inaccurate item... The 'Flying Tigers" fought with China against the Japanese. The Japanese STARTED WORLD WAR TWO ON SEPTEMBER 19, 1931 WHEN THEY INVADED MANCHURIA. Savage killing of men to infants, raping and enslaving the women to service the officers of the Japanese Imperial forces. Pearl Harbor had I believe something like the equivalent to Japans usage of an 18 months supply of OIL storage in the hollowed out mountain between Pearl and Hickam Field. The Japanese bombed Manila, Philippines the day after Pearl Harbor. The Philippines had the slave labor they sought, like the Chinese. They immediately captured control of the Philippines because we had no strategic forces there. You are wrong on everything you say!

BTW, when we had the incredibly prosperous nation-building after WWII, was because the tax rate on the Fat Cat Robber Baron 1%'rs was 90%! Hows THAT for trickle down economics! Hahahahaha!

Biden eulogizes McGovern, says he's also tired of 'old men dreaming up wars'

No, Biden is just tired and so is his rhetoric.

Democrats caused the great depression of the 30's with WW I...

And don't forget they also caused the housing crisis that led to the current recession. While they like to blame "greedy bankers", they're the ones who passed the legislation (The Community Reinvestment Act) that ultimately created the conditions necessary for the housing market to implode. I've always found it ironic (and maybe hypocritical) that Chris Dodd and Barney Frank--two of the Democratic politicians that advocated the policies that led to the housing crisis--crafted the bill to regulate the banking industry "so that this will never happen again". They were just trying to take the focus off of the real cause of the crisis and off of their complicity in it.

Actually it never reached 90%, in addition everyone payed taxes, the lowes rate was 1.2 % for the lowest income bracket.

When the federal income tax was enacted in 1913, the top rate was just 7 percent. By the end of World War I, rates had been greatly increased at all income levels, with the top rate jacked up to 77 percent (for income over $1 million). After five years of very high tax rates, rates were cut sharply under the Revenue Acts of 1921, 1924, and 1926. The combined top marginal normal and surtax rate fell from 73 percent to 58 percent in 1922, and then to 50 percent in 1923 (income over $200,000). In 1924, the top tax rate fell to 46 percent (income over $500,000). The top rate was just 25 percent (income over $100,000) from 1925 to 1928, and then fell to 24 percent in 1929. Secretary Mellon knew that high tax rates caused the tax base to contract and that lower rates would boost economic growth. In 1924, Mellon noted: "The history of taxation shows that taxes which are inherently excessive are not paid. The high rates inevitably put pressure upon the taxpayer to withdraw his capital from productive business." He received strong support from President Coolidge, who argued that "the wise and correct course to follow in taxation and all other economic legislation is not to destroy those who have already secured success but to create conditions under which every one will have a better chance to be successful."

The US economy has picked up better than expected growth - news has just come out this morning that Gross domestic product expanded at a 2.0 percent.

The Obama boom is here, the President has achieved economic growth...without GOP support - amazing.

.

4 more years.

Just a Grunt: Anyone who doesn't view Mr. Mellon as the worst kind of criminal and the first of many to begin a class warfare against the poor and middle class doesn't understand history at all. People like Mellon created the Great Depression by using the top down method. He believed in a ruling class of elite wealthy men.

You cannot rewrite history to fit your BS narrative.

Joe Biden is a lying piece of crap.

He can't even go to a funeral withour lying and injecting politics.

The left in this country has gone over the edge and theyu will be defeated in November

1/20/2013 - the end of a grave error

David Noah

Aren't you going to defend Biden for voting to overturn Row vs Wade

1st of all, that was 30 years ago. You people won't even talk about the administration from 4 years ago.

2nd, why don't you worry about Republicans who in 2012 say that child from rape was God intended thus rape was God intended, and that women who get pregnant during rape were not raped at all because their bodies didn't shut the whole thing down.

That you should not defend.

Fool's Gold

And don't forget they also caused the housing crisis that led to the current recession

why are the Dems at fault? because of the deregulation? Yet, you want to elect a guy who wants to deregulate, deregulate, deregulate.

So which one is it fool?

And don't forget they also caused the housing crisis that led to the current recession. While they like to blame "greedy bankers", they're the ones who passed the legislation (The Community Reinvestment Act) that ultimately created the conditions necessary for the housing market to implode.

Oh, bullcrap! The CRA was passed in 1977. Are you seriously telling me that it took 30 years for the effects of this legislation to show?

Now, let's look at the bipartisan Congressional report by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform on the subprime mortgage crisis released in 2009 (summary here):

Lower down-payments led to housing prices that outpaced income growth: Once government-sponsored efforts to decrease down payments spread to the wider market, home prices became increasingly untethered from any kind of demand limited by borrowers’ ability to pay. Instead, borrowers could just make smaller down payments and take on higher debt, allowing home prices to continue their unrestrained rise. (p. 11)

The Government Sponsored Enterprises led the way into the housing crisis: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were leaders in risky mortgage lending. According to an analysis presented to the Committee, between 2002 and 2007, Fannie and Freddie purchased $1.9 trillion of mortgages made to borrowers with credit scores below 660, one of the definitions of “subprime” used by federal banking regulators. This represents over 54% of all such mortgages purchased during those years. (p.24)

Now, what led to lower downpayments? I refer you to:

American Dream Downpayment Initiative (ADDI) - signed into law on Dec 16, 2003.
Sponsor: Sen. Wayne Allard [R-CO]
Co-sponsors: Samuel Brownback [R-KS]; Conrad Burns [R-MT]; Ben Campbell [R-CO]; Michael Crapo [R-ID]; Michael Enzi [R-WY]; Charles Hagel [R-NE]; Lisa Murkowski [R-AK]; Richard Santorum [R-PA]; Jefferson Sessions [R-AL]

Note that there was not one Democrat co-sponsoring this bill. The bill was sponsored by a Republican, co-sponsored only by other Republicans, passed by a Republican majority in the House and Senate and signed into law by a Republican president. The biggest single thing this did was lower the downpayment for any GSE guaranteed loan to 3%. Until 2007, Bush was pushing for even lower: NO downpayment for minority loans!

Now, why did Fannie and Freddi buy up so many crappy loans?

It was under Secretary Jackson that HUD decided in 2004 to increase Fannie and Freddie's "affordable" housing goals while allowing the financial giants to continue the Clinton-era policy of counting subprime mortgages as credit toward meeting that goal. Despite Fannie's 81-percent increase in lending to minority families in 2003, Jackson chastised the organization for its "failure to lead." Jackson's pressure on the GSEs came despite the fact that regulators were growing increasingly concerned with subprime lending. The Washington Post found that "housing experts and some congressional leaders now view those decisions as mistakes that contributed to an escalation of subprime lending that is roiling the U.S. economy."

And who was Jackson?

Alphonso Jackson was named a deputy secretary at HUD a few months into President George W. Bush's first term. He became the acting secretary in late 2003, and permanent secretary in April 2004.

No, my friend, CRA had nothing to do with the housing bubble or the subprime mortgage crisis! This was strictly a Republican Recession!

baylLIE

There you go again, could you please list the names of the people defending those stupid statements.

And while you're at it, explain why you didn't mention old Joe's words about the Iraq war. Don't you think he lied?

David Noah had some very interesting points about old lying Joe Biden and you twist it around to some stupid remarks made by some stupid republican? You should write for horses ass Mr. Ed and Rachel Madcow. They tell half truths all the time.

baylLIE & EEngineer

You too can go out to the internet and find MANY examples of the democrats blocking attemps to reform the housing mess before it collapsed. President Bush tried many times to get some reforms in place only to be blocked by democrats. The Congressional Black Caucus was especially hard on an investigator who tried to explain that the head of Fannie or Freedie was a crook, I forget which agency it was. That investigator was accused of "lynching" Franklin Raynes(sp), who actually ended up being convicted of being the crook he was. Barney Frank defended the solvency of Fannie and Freddie while he was sleeping with one of their top financial wizaeds. I guess there was never any pillow talk between them, you think?

EEngineer - sure let's look at a report from the democrats in 2009 when they ran everything.

JH-479998

You too can go out to the internet and find MANY examples of the democrats blocking attemps to reform the housing mess before it collapsed.

can you even read? Or do you have a hard time understanding what you read? I asked fool, since he is pointing out that deregulation was the source of financial meltdown, why is he for the guy who wants to deregulate further.

BTW, deregulation aside, no one forced banks to give out loans to those who did not qualify incomewise. Bank decided to do this own their own, enjoyed record profits, and laughed all the way to the bank (pun intended).

JH-479998

There you go again, could you please list the names of the people defending those stupid statements.

another example of your inability to comprehend what you read. Where did I state there is a list? I said: That you should not defend. Do I need to explain to you what the pronoun 'you" means?

BTW, tell me, all this time Paul Ryan worked with Todd Akin on the Personhood bill and he failed to realize that Akin is a total loser?

He also agreed that an extra 1000 US military advisors should be sent to South Vietnam to help train the South Vietnamese Army. Both of these decisions were not made public as they broke the agreements made at the 1954 Geneva Agreement.

Yes, very true! My father was a West Point Grad '60. After a year in Vietnamese school and war college, he was one of those 1000 US military advisors sent by Kennedy. No one wants to really remember the true time-line of events which escalated the war. All anyone wants to remember is Nixon.

Surprises me that Mr. Biden didn't squeak in a little love for Mr. Chavez.

baylLIE

Yes I can read. And I believe that you don't comprehend what you write.By the way, deregulation aside, no one LEGALLY forced banks to loan to those not qualified but you seem to forget the buses full of idiots that ACORN rented and went directly to bankers homes to guilt them into loaning to less qualified. And Dodd and Frank were right there blocking reform. Then they write the legislation for fixing it?

And you paint all republicans with the same brush for the idiot statements that a very few make. So you admit that one or two republicans have made statements that are off the wall but you can't seem to find a list of republicans that back their stupid statements. A very Rachel Madcow way of making your point.

George led me away from the republican party, Te Party of Wars. Thank you George as I will never be voting for a republican again in my lifetime! You have opened my eyes to the truth!

It's sad to me when politicians turn a eulogy into a political statement. I wish they could occasionally flip the political button off.

We get it Noah you hate Dems. Your all Ying and no Yang.

Actually I don't trust politicians period.

There supposed to represent their constituents. This is supposed to be a government of the people by the people and for the people.

In December of 2009 69% of the people were against the P.P.A.C.A bill. You remember that bill. The one that Nancy Pelosi said "we have to pass it to find out whats in it". Even today a Majority of the people are still against it.

They passed it anyways on Christmas Eve.

At the Democratic Convention they held a floor vote to add God and Israel back into the Democrat Platform. It failed the first time so they had a second vote and it failed again. Then they had a Third vote and it still failed so Mayor Villagarsa declared it passed.

If the constituents say No we don't want that then isn't that how their Representatives in Congress should vote?

Not basing your vote on whatever lobbyist promises them the most campaign money and fund raisers. Not trading your vote to other legislatures to get their constituents vote to support their bills? Holding out your vote until they get a Cornhusker Kickback, Gatorade Gimme, Louisiania Purchase, or some other Quid pro Quo for your vote just like what happened with P.P.A.C.A. bill?

Our system is broke. We can't get our Representatives to pass campaign finance reform, we cant get our legislatures to pass term limits, we cant get our legislatures to Pass a balanced budget Amendment, etc.

All we can do is keep Voting every incumbent out that goes against the wishes of the people until they finally realize they are here to serve us not themselves.

Its ok though. I understand there are many people that don't see the bigger picture. That is why America is not ready for Real Change.

JH-479998

but you seem to forget the buses full of idiots that ACORN rented and went directly to bankers homes to guilt them into loaning to less qualified

what??? read the bill and point out exactly where you got this crap from.

we had financial meltown because ACORN guilted banks into giving away money....hahahahah that is just beyond stupid...

Magic Tonic Kills Brain Cells

Dems own credit for our involvement in WW I, WW II, Vietnam, and Korea.

Well I guess during WWII we could have done what the Republicans wanted to do and join the NAZIs (look up "Business Plot".

By the way, Dwight D. Eisenhower was the President who sent US Troops to Vietnam...and I believe he was a Republican. Although it could certainly be argued he would not have been able to run for office it "today's" Republican Party.

baylLIE

Trying to talk to you is useless. You can go along in life and deny that the liberal left in this country had anything to do with the meltdown of the housing industry but you are WRONG. The progressive/liberals feel that everything should be equal outcome and not equal opportunity. I don't feel that way. Everyone should be given an equal opportunity and they are responsible for the outcome. If they run into hard times out of no fault of their own then this country steps in to help. Conservatives have been proven to be the most generous in charitable giving and liberals are most generous with other peoples tax dollars. You guys will never have enough of others peoples money to do everything you would like to do. That is why we need to get rid of Obama and his agenda for America

Hope MSNBC is not destroying one of the best sites on the Web because something very strange is going on with this site !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bayllie, you're honestly making yourself look more and more idiotic with each and every post. You constantly attack anyone who doesn't agree with the idiotic democrats meme of the day, to the point where your comments are truly irrevelant. And for you "ol_doc", Eisenhower and Kennedy sent military advisers who were not supposed to do any actual fighting. Johnson was the one who sent in large numbers of combat troops. And corrrect me if I'm wrong, but isn't Johnson the very same president who decided to "move" the monies in the Social Security Fund, into the "General Fund"? Selective history is funny...

Paul Ryan also voted for the wars, especially the Iraq war, and his bills in congress give a massive ($2 trillion by some accounts) increase to military spending. We will never reduce the federal deficit with that kind of military spending.

citizens -

A lot of House and Senate members from both parties voted for the war. Biden did and said he didn't. Lying about your vote is wrong. I haven't heard Ryan say he voted against it, have you?

Our Federal Governments first priorty is for our safety. We need our military for all of American citizens more than we need some of our social programs that buy votes and are directed at few Americans.

NPCDan

And for you "ol_doc", Eisenhower and Kennedy sent military advisers who were not supposed to do any actual fighting. Johnson was the one who sent in large numbers of combat troops.

First of all, I'm merely correcting a statement. I do not condone what Johnson did in Vietnam. In fact what he did was to lie us into war with the Gulf of Tonkin, whether he was actually lying or was lied to we will probably never really know. What he did changed my life forever and millions of other Americans 40 some years ago. As to your comment regarding advisers...no one is innocent. Regardless of what is stated, you do not send advisers and expect them not to engage in combat. Sorry slick...that's the reality. If you don't want a war, do not send armed military advisers. By the way, Vietnam was a SEATO Member Country. Once they invoked the Mutual Aid Article, we as a signatory member had no choice but to come to their aid...much like NATO. That's why Korea and Australia sent troops.

As to your comment regarding Social Security Fund and again I do agree it was wrong. It was wrong for every president of BOTH parties. Now let's set the rhetoric aside for a moment; they didn't "move" the money...they replaced it with Treasury Bills (still rated as the most stable investment on earth). I know it's popular among Republicans to refer to Treasure Bills as IOUs but let's be honest, that's a little disingenuous.

Was Biden at least against the bombing of Libya? Or playing around in Syria?

I know he was quick to jump on the Iraq bandwagon even though it was pretty clear to others it was a dumb thing to do.

He's as bad as Romney when it comes to the Flip-Flop.

It is true, in looking at long-ago history, the Democrats used to be the war party--WWI, WWII, the Korean and Vietnam wars were all Democrat wars and added significantly to the federal deficit that still is not totally paid off! WWII added the most and was the biggest of any war; however, it was probably the only one of those wars that the US truly needed to get involved in and had to stop Hitler and the Japanese. FDR truly understood the scope of the costs and had everyone sacrificing (not just the solders) through rations and massively increased taxes to pay for the war, although even the increased taxes could not keep up with the costs. The Vietnam war was the most unnecessary of these wars and the most foolish, although we must always honor those most noble citizens who obeyed the call (usually draft) of their country and served as soldiers in Vietnam which was a very hard thing to do. The Vietnam war is what made Johnson the most despised president.

It is so true that nothing increases the federal deficit worse than wars. Wars produce no revenue, only cause spending in enormous amounts and they only produce destruction, death and suffering, and in the case of nuclear wars, decades of greatly increased cancer rates. In addition, modern wars are so destructive and lethal and potentially can kill billions of innocent people, thus creating much hatred and many enemies for their instigators. Thus, wars should ALWAYS be the last resort.

However, Vietnam started nearly 50 years ago, and is long-ago history. We must remember to live in the present. Currently, the Republican party is the big war party. Most of the last wars were initiated by Republicans, and the Republican party is now the party of the neoconservatives (neocons, such as Karl Rove, Dick Cheny, etc. etc.). The last 2 major wars--Afghanistan and especially Iraq were totally Republican wars all the way through. The repubs were planning the Iraq war and many wars like it back in the 1990s when they passed the bill in congress to that would promote "regime change" in all countries in the Middle East that were not friendly to American policies and vital interests in the region, and to start with Iraq. Remember, that was the repub bill that the repub-controlled congress got Clinton to sign under the duress of his impeachment. The Iraq war was also the most unnecessary of any war the US has been involved in, and, sadly, it was initiated by the US (Republicans and republican-controlled congress and white house). Paul Ryan has also stipulated massive military spending increases in both of his budget bills passed recently by the totally repub-controlled house in 2011 and 2012. Both Ryan and Romney have recently talked very hawkish talk and for greatly increased military spending. CURRENTLY, the Republican party is definitely the dangerous war party and the big-time, military-spending party.

Trevor-1973

He's as bad as Romney when it comes to the Flip-Flop.

No one, I say again NO ONE is as bad as Romney when it comes to the flip-flop.
During the last debate, what did Romney say that was even similar to anything he said during the Primary debates? ...even SIMILAR?

citizens

You should go and look at the transcript of President Clinton's speech to the American people in December of 1998. In that speech he lays out why he bombed Iraq. He was very specific about WMD's and he even mentioned nuclear weapons that Saddam had. Just about every member of Congress and every member of his administration backed him, including Ted Kennedy. We heard about WMD's for 8 years while Clinton was in office and how Saddam had to be stopped. The democrats were totally on board for the entire 8 years. The only thing that changed between 1999 and 2000 was the republicans took office. We were attacked on 9/11 and most Americans had had enough. You can't say that republicans were the war mongers. You can say that the democrats were not ready to act on something that they said need to be done.

Please look up Presisdent Clinton's speech and see how much backing he had. Iraq was not just republicans starting a useless war. It seemed awfully strange that after the votes were cast and the war started and people died there was an outcry of "Bush Lied". GOOGLE president clinton iraq war 1998 transcript

The most erroneous statement is "Democrats caused the Great Depression" through WWI. So absolutely false. WWI ended more than a decade before the Great Depression began at the end of two terms of Hoover (R). The Great Depression began after the huge stock market crash of 1929 that was followed by the mass panic of millions to pull their money out of banks. It was greatly compounded by the worst and largest-in-area and most prolonged drought in US history up to that point. People who were truly "products of the depression era" and were young adults or teenagers during that time ALL blamed Hoover and the repubs for that depression and gave credit to dem, FDR, for saving the US from the depression. It is a fact. I grew up listening to many of their accounts. That generation in particular almost revered FDR, and blamed the repubs, especially Hoover, for the Great Depression. It was the main reason FDR was elected to 4 terms as president.

Al Qaeda is alive.

Chris Smith is dead.

Magic Tonic and others. WW1 and WW2 were not "Democrat" wars. To say that sounds like somebody simply decided to take part in a war. That's as blatantly revisionist history as I've ever seen or heard. Let me correct your breathtaking ignorance. WW1-Pres. Wilson fought long and hard to stay out of it. He said that America was "too proud to fight" and that we could be of more use playing mediator. Unfortunately we were forced into that war by the Germans. Their policy of unrestricted submarine warfare and their attempt to persuade Mexico (Zimmerman papers) forced us to declare war on Germany and the Central powers.

WW2- Ever heard of Pearl Harbor? Apparently not. The attack forced the US into war with Japan. 6 days later Germany declared war on us, not vice-versa.

In neither case did the respective presidents at those times choose to initiate war. In both cases we were attacked first and had no option but to respond. What would you have had us do? Ignore the fact that 1000's of tons of American shipping and hundreds of American lives had been lost? Did you support retaliation after 9/11?

Do us a favor, either stfu - you really have abused your right to an opinion - or pick up a history book.

Joe Biden learned from his mistakes from being swept up in the 9/11 fear due to the lies and voted to enter Iraq. Anyone who is quotingMr. Biden's voting record from 1982 on Roe v Wade or 2001, 2 or 3 is attempting to manipulate facts to make a point. Yes, Mr. Biden's first inclination was to protect the American people, as well he should. However, the facts which followed precipitated his change of mind. Geez, Mittens changes his mind every other week.

RIP Senator McGovern. He was a good man.

President Bush tried many times to get some reforms in place only to be blocked by democrats.

That's not the way Republican Mike Oxley (yes, co-sponsor of Sarbanes-Oxley and hardly a flaming liberal) remembers it: (from an article in the Financial Times entitled Oxley hits back at ideologues - you'll have to search for it - their silly webpage doesn't allow linking to an article)

The critics have forgotten that the House passed a GSE reform bill in 2005 that could well have prevented the current crisis, says Mr Oxley, now vice-chairman of Nasdaq.

He fumes about the criticism of his House colleagues. "All the handwringing and bedwetting is going on without remembering how the House stepped up on this," he says. "What did we get from the White House? We got a one-finger salute."

The House bill, the 2005 Federal Housing Finance Reform Act, would have created a stronger regulator with new powers to increase capital at Fannie and Freddie, to limit their portfolios and to deal with the possibility of receivership.
Adamant that the only solution to the problems posed by Fannie and Freddie was their privatisation, the White House attacked the bill. Mr Greenspan also weighed in, saying that the House legislation was worse than no bill at all.

"We missed a golden opportunity that would have avoided a lot of the problems we're facing now, if we hadn't had such a firm ideological position at the White House and the Treasury and the Fed," Mr Oxley says.

Here is exactly how Bush treated any warnings about Fannie/Freddie in this NY Times article:

A soft-spoken Texan, Mr. Falcon ran the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight, a tiny government agency that oversaw Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, two pillars of the American housing industry. In February 2003, he was finishing a blockbuster report that warned the pillars could crumble.

Mr. Falcon's report outlined a worst-case situation in which Fannie and Freddie could default on debt, setting off "contagious illiquidity in the market" — in other words, a financial meltdown. He also raised red flags about the companies' soaring use of derivatives, the complex financial instruments that economic experts now blame for spreading the housing collapse.

At the time, Fannie and Freddie were allies in the president's quest to drive up homeownership rates; Franklin D. Raines, then Fannie's chief executive, has fond memories of visiting Mr. Bush in the Oval Office and flying aboard Air Force One to a housing event. "They loved us," he said.

So when Mr. Falcon refused to deep-six his report, Mr. Raines took his complaints to top Treasury officials and the White House. "I'm going to do what I need to do to defend my company and my position," Mr. Raines told Mr. Falcon.

Days later, as Mr. Falcon was in New York preparing to deliver a speech about his findings, his cellphone rang. It was the White House personnel office, he said, telling him he was about to be unemployed.

His warnings were buried in the next day's news coverage, trumped by the White House announcement that Mr. Bush would replace Mr. Falcon, a Democrat appointed by Bill Clinton, with Mark C. Brickell, a leader in the derivatives industry that Mr. Falcon's report had flagged.

Here's a man that predicted exactly how the meltdown would occur. George W. Bush's response? Fire him and replace him with someone from the very industry responsible for the mess!

No matter how much you and Republicans would like to make this the Democrat's fault, the housing bubble and the mortgage meltdown were the Republican's fault and this is a Republican Recession!

CIA operators were denied request for help during Benghazi attack, sources say

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49570159#.UIsbaGfF2UI

@Dan Austin.

Who is rewriting history, I responed to the claim that the top tax bracket was 90% when infact is was lower. In addition I stated that everyone that drew a paycheck was taxed, even the lowest wage earners. That is was is going to have to happen if this country wants to get ahold on the debt. Raise taxes on everyone, if you get a pay check then you pay taxes.

I'd love to see grinning Ole Joe in front of other world leaders, they'd break out laughing, especially after he forgot which country he was is, LOL We'll miss Ole Joe

I can see Laughing Joe denigrating a world leader and then realizing ooops he is talking to the guy he is denigrating. HAHAHAHA. He needs to go into retirement because quite frankly he is an embarrassment.

Ryan looked amateurish. All ryan did was spew canned messages he memorized, which is also what palin did. Biden kicked his asz. I'm sure Ryan still has bruise from stepping into the ring with biden.

Wow MTKBC - I guess you must have been really upset with Romney in the first two debates if you hate interruptions. And you may hate "fact checking" and want to beleive all the BS that pours out of the right-wings mouth, but some of us use logic and reason and need facts to do so.

Logic and reasoning have no place in the democrats' mantra, especially those of the uberliberals. God forbid that you actually disagree with any of you lunatics, for you will be immediately labelled as a racist, bigot, idiot, etc. Add to the fact that Mr. Romney was actually debating against Messrs. Obama and Crowely, he actually did very well. And how's that "investigation" into the events at Benghazi coming along?

As I said, you can disagreee all you want, as long as you use facts and reason in your disagreement. where is the disagreement on the right? You have to blindly follow the conflicting views on the right or you are ostracized. NPCDan, do you think big government should be out of our lives - or do you want big govenrment to outlaw abortion, gay marriage and euthenasia? Do you think we should lower the deficit or do you want to cut taxes and expand the military? All Crowely did was point out FACTS, like the FACT that Romney was F*(KING LYING!!!! And only a Republitard that hates facts would be upset by that!!!

Time for the tired old Biden to go home. After all, he just confirmed that he should.

And who in their right mind thinks that Biden won the debate with Paul. Sure, Biden was the bigger buffoon, but that hardly amounts to winning a debate. About the only thing Biden or Obama said in the debate was that they weren't smart enough to accomplish what they promised, so give them more time to not accomplish what they promised. You'd think that after 4 years in office that they'd run on their accomplishments. And what of their plans for the next 4 years? Well, we're not Bush and we need 4 more years to try to prove that we know what we're doing (of course, by then it'll be too late and you'll have to suffer more of the same), oh, and tax the rich!

I'm sure given 4 more years they'll prove their worth. You think 47 million on the government dole is great now, well, you ain't seen nothing yet! We'll get the rest of the 99% on the dole, you can bank on it!

Biggest pile of crap I've read today. No surprise that you're from Oklahoma...

NPcDan-Brilliant and utterly expected comeback from a Republican. You really hate Oklahoma that much? What about the people there who support Romney?

How about a mandatory age limit in the Congress and Senate and Supreme Court of 50 ..The people over that age seem to be out of touch with whats actually going on ! We thank the men/woman for their service but they need to move on ...One unnamed person is still fighting the Vietnam war, at the taxpayers expense !

Palm Springs -

I am 38. Most people that are 50+ have SO much to teach us. They have seen it all once, twice, or even more. It is naive to think they are out of touch. The problems of the world and psyche of a typical human hasn't changed since the beginning of time. You must be very young and in need of tutelage. I was like that when I was in my teens and 20s. Trust me, they know more than both of us combined. If you ask them the right questions and listen to the answer, you will be a better person because of it.

Godspeed you indeed Mr. McGovern. Fortunately you can rest secure in the knowledge that there are no Republicans in heaven. :o)

On another subject:

Jeep is NOT going to move their production to China. I ought to know. I work in those plants at Detroit and Toledo. In fact, both of those plants are currently EXPANDING.

Expanding HUGE to meet product demand. They are installing state-of-the-art metrology centers that look like space shuttle clean rooms as I write this.

The Chinese demand that anyone selling Jeeps in their country build them there. The Chinese are smart enough to not allow Romneys in their country who'll cannibalize their economy and offshore jobs. Only idiots like the people of the United States do that.

See ya. I'm heading to Auburn Hills to make better Jeeps. Thanks to Barack Obama I have a job!!

OBAMA/BIDEN next month

And I am so proud I voted for him, my first ever ballot cast - I am someone who can truthfully and proudly say they never, ever voted for tricky dick!

union -- just curious -- did you vote for slick willie

Intrepid and what military service has Obama done. Couldn't get in with his pot smoking and cocaine using self.

If you look closely at Mr. Obama's girlie wrists, I seriously doubt he could even hold a bayonett, and he certainly couldn't hold the rifle it's attached to.

President is the Commander-in-Chief, the highest rank in the military..and has been for over 3 1/2 years..

O&JOE2012

CIC is not a "military rank". Being POTUS does mean the person has served in the military.

The most erroneous statement is "Democrats caused the Great Depression" through WWI. So absolutely false. WWI ended more than a decade before the Great Depression began at the end of two terms of Hoover (R). The Great Depression began after the huge stock market crash of 1929 that was followed by the mass panic of millions to pull their money out of banks. It was greatly compounded by the worst and largest-in-area and most prolonged drought in US history up to that point. People who were truly "products of the depression era" and were young adults or teenagers during that time ALL blamed Hoover and the repubs for that depression and gave credit to dem, FDR, for saving the US from the depression. It is a fact. I grew up listening to many of their accounts. That generation in particular almost revered FDR, and blamed the repubs, especially Hoover, for the Great Depression. It was the main reason FDR was elected to 4 terms as president.

Great Rev Wright GD America, 20 years Obama attended!

I went to Sen. McGovern's viewing this afternoon. It was a few hours before the prayer service. There was an honor guard who lined the sidewalk in front of the church. Even though, you walked through and stopped in front of his coffin, I was still very moved. I was also moved by the flowers that came in and were set up in the church. His actual funeral is tomorrow and open to the public. I'm going to that, too. I feel like I have to.

This world needs more people like George McGovern, who showed a lot of class and grace in the face of a humiliating defeat and did not let it stop him from doing the work he did. The fact that he was so well respected by people of both parties is a testament to what kind of person he was.

RIP, Senator McGovern.

I cast my first vote for President for George McGovern. I thought then and I think now he was the best person for the job. Had he been elected,some sanity would have returned to the country. The war in Vietnam would have ended years before it did. Saving the lives of thousands of our soldiers. The holocaust in Cambodia would never had happened. And the long national nightmare of the final Nixon years would never had accrued.

What I learned from those days was that elections have consequences. Something we sometimes forget today. We had a group come to power through a disputed election in 2000. That during their 8 years in office brought our nation to the worst disaster since the great depression. With 2 wars,thousands of our soldiers killed,trillions of our treasure lost,and almost total economic collapse.

During these last 3 1/2 years,we have been trying to dig out of the mess the Bush years left us in. And with no help from a Republican Party,more intent on unseating a Democratic President than serving the American people who elected them. We have made great progress in restoring our country. We've ended one horrible war,and are on track to end the last one. Instead of the economy losing jobs,its gaining jobs. Instead of America being disliked in the world as a war-monger,we see the world beginning to respect us again as a great nation.

The damage that Bush left us with is still not totally repaired. Thinking that it would be,once the President saw the full extent of the damage,is just foolish. But are we on the road to recovery,yes we are. Now again,elections have consequences. To return to the failed policies of the past is the wrong why to go. The Romney/Ryan crew,have the same advisers,the same policies,that got us into war,and brought the disaster upon us. We would be making a tragic mistake to trust them again with our's and our children's future. We make that mistake once,lets not make it another time.

Obama/Biden

Detroit did go through bankruptcy. The only difference is that Romney said they should get funding after going through Bankruptcy not before.

I like how Obama and the Democrats take credit for saving Detroit when it was George W. Bush who actually did it. All the Obama admin did was loan them more money, continuing Bush's policy of saving Detroit, when it became apparent the original 17 Billion wasn't enough.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16740.html

Bush announces $17.4 billion auto bailout

President George W. Bush stepped in Friday to keep America's auto industry afloat, announcing a $17.4 billion bailout for GM and Chrysler, with the terms of the loans requiring that the firms radically restructure and show they can become profitable soon.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28311743/ns/business-autos/t/billion-auto-bailout-has-strings-attached/#.UIoGuWc_L2Q

WASHINGTON — Ailing U.S. automakers and their workers accepted huge concessions Friday, potentially including a partial nationalization, in return for a $17.4 billion federal rescue package meant to buy them time to survive.

President George W. Bush outlined a plan that would hand $13.4 billion this month and next to General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC. Both companies have said they soon might be unable to pay their bills without federal help.

GM would get $9.4 billion and Chrysler $4 billion. Ford Motor Co. has said it does not need immediate help.

An additional $4 billion could be available in February, but that is contingent on whether Congress approves a request made by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson Friday for the $350 billion second half of the financial bailout fund. Tapping the fund for the auto industry basically exhausts the first half of the $700 billion total, he said.

President-elect Barack Obama, who takes office on Jan. 20, warned the auto industry that Americans did not have infinite patience.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122969367595121563.html

WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration said it would lend $17.4 billion to General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC, buying them a few weeks of financial relief but leaving the biggest decisions about the industry's future to President-elect Barack Obama.

Under the White House plan, the companies are required to extract enough financial concessions from workers, suppliers, dealers and other stakeholders to demonstrate their long-term viability by the end of March.

Romney supported a structured bankruptcy. GM was not competitive, primarily because of the Unions. GM is thriving in China, how many union members work for GM China? GM china is growing hiring thousands. Other car companies were and are competitive in the US in the right to work states.

So Noah, are you saying you support big government wealth redistribution to people (at least corporate persons) who have made poor financial decisions and need a bail out? Glad to hear you support some level of socialism. I hope this feeling extends to actual people and not just corporations. I assume you support this if either party does it and won't follow along the attack lines that right-wingers use on Democrats when the Dems are in power, but then turn around and do the same thing they attacked when Republicans are in power.

Why are they closing plants in China & dumping 6000 workers then moron?

Biden wouldn't make a pimple on Senator McGoverns' AZZ!!!

Thanks Magic. Patience!

Just as in 1972, we are seeing a President and his minions engage in the 3D defense (Deny, Denigrate, Demand proof) when caught in the lie that will bring him down. Just as in 1972 it will not work! Deny that anything happened. Denigrate the person posting the facts. Demand proof of every little detail to drown the discussion in minutiae. It will not work!

The tide of evidence is rising and sooner or later it will drown Obama just as Nixon was drowned early in his second term.

I pray Obama doesn't win reelection. At least Nixon had the grace to resign. I don't think Obama does.

Obama is THE most Classless, low life Failure as President this Country has ever endured. He HAS no grace......only narcissistic self serving Bullschit!!!

The Generals all said that it was 9/11 all over the world. They couldn't increase protection at every single Embassy all over the world at the same time. If you have to protect Embassy's, you would deploy forces to the larger and more critical ones, not the tiny ones in remote areas. That's like cops staking out every 7/11 convenience store in the country at the same time, just in case one might get robbed. But if they also have to protect banks and every other business, how can they possibly be everywhere all at the same time?

Bp, it was indeed 9-11 all over the world, but I don't recall the embassy in Paris asking for more protection. In fact, I don't recall hearing of any of our embassies asking for more protection, just the one. And I think you surely, by now, know which one I am referring to.

There were several embassy attacks during Bush's tenure, but Dems did not politicize them like you anti-Americans do! Remember, Bush DID NOT STEP UP NATIONAL SECURITY IN LIGHT OF ALL THE PROMINENT THREATS TO PREVENT 911 AS CLINTON SUCCESSFULLY DID TO PREVENT THE Y2K TERROR ATTACKS. BUSH GREATLY SHIRKED HIS #1 RESPONSIBILITY. YET THE DEMS DID NOT POLITICIZE IT LIKE YOU ANTI-AMERICANS DO WITH THE LIBYAN EVENT.

The dems simply ralled in support behind the president after that horrendous attack on 9/11/2001, even at first supporting the Repub Iraq war until they realized they had been duped into an unnecessary war.

The recent current Libyan embassy attack is a current event and under investigation. I completely trust the current president to take the proper steps to punish and stop those responsible just as he did with the 911 culprit. He accomplished the most important goal in stopping the true perpetrator of that horrendous attack on American soil, and he and the pentagon will certainly do the same for this much smaller event. There were innumerable terrorist attacks in Iraq AFTER the US invasion there, and dems did not politicize them because it was an ongoing event, and a matter of national security of sorts. Just shows how truly anti-American some can get in the name of politics in politicizing a current event under investigation for political profit. Thankfully, the dems did not do that after 911 even though they were the minority party in congress and the white house was under repub control

Scary part is he is one step from the White House. Unfortunalty that would no longer be funny.

@greatpresident(not).......enlighten me....what branch of service did Obama serve in?.....better yet research "Bite-me's" service record(or lack there of, because he got "college deferments" from Viet Nam")....more liberal hypocrisy. Reseach not rant.................

Great, who cares about a leaders religion? Would you really like to discuss the Rev Wright GD America and Obama's 20 years attending his church then throwing him under the bus for votes?

great presidentt - Like most liberals you lie about Mr Romney's draft status. Mr Romney had student deferments and a deferment while on his mission. However when his deferments expired, he was reassigned a 1A (eligible) draft status and subject to the draft lottery. He drew a high number in the lottery, and was never called to serve, nor did he enlist.

Mr Ryan also never enlisted or served.

Now, let’s talk about Mr Biden. Mr Biden also had student deferments during Vietnam. When his student deferments expired, the high school and college athlete, was diagnosed with asthma and he was reassigned a IY status and exempted from being drafted. He never served.

Mr Obama never enlisted or served.

In this election, military service of the either of the candidates (Romney or Obama) is a non-issue as neither were called to serve or voluntarily served. By the way I am a veteran who was drafted during Vietnam and went on to serve over 10 years in the military - where and when did you serve?

Way to be NH_Shellback! I'm guessing you're promotion from a "pollywog" was quite "enlightening"! I'm a veteran myself, U.S. Army, but have many friends from all branches of the miltary. A very good friend of mine once explained the "graduation" ceremony from a pollywog to a shellback. Kind of reminded me of "Animal House" on a ship!

NPCDan - I became a shellback in an initiation ceremony on a Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute ship, when we crossed the prime meridian at the equator (so I am officially an Emerald Shellback). Military wise I served in the Air Force, Air Force Reserve and Army Reserve.

Romney was draft age during Vietnam. There were no wars during the years Obama was draft age.

citizensarethecountry

Romney was draft age during Vietnam.

citizens - So were millions of other men, such as Biden or Clinton. However he was never called to serve (drafted) nor did he enlist.

As I said before, in this election military service of the either of the candidates (Romney or Obama) is a non-issue as neither were called to serve or voluntarily served

We'll all miss Ole Joe, have to start watching Comedy Central again.

The Dems are desperate, anything but Obama's failed policies. Obama hasn't had a press conference in 7 months doesn't want to face real questions, so he goes on The View, Letterman, MTV. Is this where he gets his foreign policy advise from?

Very well said "eddie"! Hear! Hear!

Yes Nixon beat McGovern. And the country suffered for it. McGovern was not a pacifist or a socialist, or anything but a good and decent man, one who served honorably in the war and who had the right to say no to an unjust war. Revisionist history , or lying to be blunt will not change what was. Vietnam was indeed pushed by Republicans after McCarthy. Ike was right about the military corporations creating enemies and war for their purposes. This is what happened in Iraq. Wall Street created both depressions and were aided by de-regulating Republicans and some Democrats. It's no accident Hoover and Bush presided over the failures. But you go live in your Faux bubble. Class warfare is what has defined the Republican party since the 1900's and certainly since Nixon, and Nixon was a crook. I wonder what would have happened if Obama had instituted a wage and price freeze like him. Of course, he was a Republican. Benghazi, is not Iran Contra and your history can be stated " I don't recall Senator".

O and Joe in 2012.

your an idiot no democrat is a socialist you republicans are all idiots and fools no conservative has ever done anything good ever in the history of the world conservatism is the disease that destroys empires. When countries stop inovating and stop changing they fall period end of story we cannot allow conservatism to ever win

MRuser, your correct, Obama and the Dems can't run on record so it's class warfare, it's war on women, it's name calling. Anything but an election based on Obama's failed 4

Dewayne, when the name calling comes out it shows lack of ability to debate facts. 12 M unemployed. 16 T debt 1.1 T deficit. Obama's plan more of the same failed policies.

I'm sorry hesea

Isa stands correcttadid. Youse smarter then me with alls the facts. Isa wills forgets abouts Demographics and Voter suppression laws cause youse is wayyyyy smatrs thens me.

YAWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

Dew, what are Obama's plans to reduce the 1.1 T deficit? If that's difficult, whats Obama's plans to get say half the 23 M unemployed back to work?

Why hasn't Obama meet with the press in 7 months and explained his policies?

Does he think The View are more important than meeting with world leaders while the middle east is burning?

It would be so much easier if all Obama had to say was "tax cuts" like Romney.

Betty MSNBC are misleading..hen a so called media outlet like MSNBC are in the tank for a candidate like they are ofr Obama nothing is accurate. Now even their shows such as Andrea Mitcheal are doing ads for Obama os do you think her show is slanted? MSNBC have been caught sevedral times for editing their version of the news, understand what your watching

NH: Romney demonstrated for the Viet Nam war and then hid in France to avoid the military.

None of Romney's sons have ever served in the military. Biden's son was in the military and saw action.

DRAGON! - WHAT HAPPENED....THE SPREAD HERE IN OBAMA'S FAVOR WAS HUGE AND JUST THREE WEEKS AGO? YOU REMEMBER....YOU USED TO TELL US ABOUT IT EVERYDAY FOR MONTHS!...........ROH-ROH!!!!

2012 Electoral College Scoreboard

Rasmussen Reports - Electoral College Breakdown

Safe Romney

167

Likely Romney

21

Leans Romney

47

Toss-up

66

Leans Obama

37

Likely Obama

28

Safe Obama

172

Remember, the "Anybody But McGovern" coalition, was formed by southern Democrats and organized labor......

dragon - Like most liberals you lie about Mr Romney's draft status. But you serve your masters well in parroting the bull@!$%# and drivel from the "Soros/Obama playbook to destroy America". Mr Romney had student deferments and a deferment while on his mission. However when his deferments expired, he was reassigned a 1A (eligible) draft status and subject to the draft lottery. He drew a high number in the lottery, and was never called to serve, nor did he enlist.

Please remind me of Mr Biden's or Mr Obama's military service.

Until January when Mr Romney is inaugurated as President, we have only had 2 POTUS in the since FDR who have not served, they are both democrats and both have sent others off to die. The draft evader and sexual predator Clinton and the current pretender-in-chief.

My first year to volunteer in political campaigns was because of George McGovern. I respected him and loved his politics. I have proudly told everyone who would listen that I volunteered for George McGovern for president in Dallas, Texas. From there I have volunteered on many political campaigns for progressive candidates and as I grow older I contribute as much as I can. Today I am a proud member of MoveOn.Org. Every year I try to honor Senator McGovern and I've remained anti-war, anti- corporate, and pro labor even though I haven't worked in a union job for many years. We are so fortunate for George McGovern's life. I still love you sir.