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If Ohio has been President Barack Obama’s “firewall” – the state guarding against a disappointing Electoral College result on Nov. 6 – then the president’s re-election team might consider Obama’s well-publicized auto industry rescue as a type of firewall within a firewall.
Charles Dharapak / AP
Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney stands on a table as he addresses an overflow crowd as he campaigns at PR Machine Works in Mansfield, Ohio, Monday, Sept. 10, 2012.
Obama has taken every effort to remind voters in Ohio of his authorization of a 2009 bailout of General Motors and Chrysler that is widely credited with preserving the companies as they stood on the brink of catastrophe. In the same breath, the president is sure to mention the op-ed – “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt” – penned by Romney for the New York Times, which called for a managed bankruptcy for the automakers supported partially by government guarantees.
There are real differences between how Obama sought the auto industry rescue and how Romney, judging by his own comments at the time, might have engineered support for GM and Chrysler. But if the Republican presidential nominee manages to win Midwestern states like Ohio and Wisconsin on Nov. 6, he could point to his recent messaging on the auto bailout as a reason why.
President Obama and Gov. Romney sparred on foreign policy with Romney attempting to poke holes in the president's record while Obama mocked Romney's attempts to agree with many of his policies. NBC's Chuck Todd reports.
Romney has essentially tried to take credit for Obama’s actions, arguing that it was the president who ended up following Romney’s counsel all along, and lead GM and Chrysler toward a “managed bankruptcy.”
"He said that I said we should take Detroit bankrupt. And that’s right. My plan was to have the company go through bankruptcy like 7-Eleven did and Macy’s and Continental Airlines and come out stronger," Romney said at last week's second presidential debate in New York. "And I know he keeps saying, 'You want to take Detroit bankrupt.' Well, the president took Detroit bankrupt. You took General Motors bankrupt. You took Chrysler bankrupt. So when you say that I wanted to take the auto industry bankrupt, you actually did."
Romney’s semantic argument, though, obscures a gulf between him and Obama over how such a managed bankruptcy would have been managed and its implications for the industry.
First Read wrote in February – as Romney sought to win Michigan’s Republican primary – about the precise differences between Obama and Romney when it comes to the bailout.
The separation between Romney and Obama on the issue of the bailout stems from two issues. First, Romney argues that interests of the labor unions were unfairly favored over some of GM and Chrysler's private creditors. The government-supervised bankruptcy did this, he argues, by allowing the autoworkers’ retirees program an equity stake in the restructured GM in exchange for providing financial support for the bankruptcy.
Second, Romney appears to differ with the president over the extent to which government itself should have stepped forward with money to help stave off liquidation of GM and Chrysler and provide for the restructuring process. The administration's approach did this in the case of GM by essentially establishing a new, restructured company in which the government became a majority shareholder. (Romney argued Tuesday for the government to divest itself from the company.)
Romney's position in the past has been that the private sector could have stepped forward to finance and more effectively manage the bankruptcy process -- especially in a way that would have treated private stakeholders in the companies more fairly.
One of the key points, though, involves the type of support Romney would have offered to the companies. His original op-ed called for the government to back warrantees and guarantee private sector financing for the companies when they emerged from bankruptcy. But the bipartisan Congressional Oversight Panel overseeing the various bailouts questioned whether any private financing would have been available in the first place, given the credit crunch in early 2009.
“Gov. Romney, you keep on trying to, you know, airbrush history here,” Obama said on the topic of autos Monday evening at a third debate versus Romney. “You were very clear that you would not provide, government assistance to the U.S. auto companies, even if they went through bankruptcy. You said that they could get it in the private marketplace. That wasn’t true.”
Setting aside the candidates’ very different approaches, what is clear is that, for months now, Romney has tried to play offense on the issue of autos. And his success in states like Ohio – where one in eight jobs is said to have ties to the auto industry – may depend on Romney’s ability to convince Midwestern voters that GM and Chrysler would be doing just as well as they are now if he were president instead of Obama.
It appears voters are interested in learning more. As a New York Times spokesperson noted on Twitter, Romney’s original Nov. 18, 2008 op-ed, skyrocketed Tuesday to the top of the list of the most-read stories on the Times website.
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OH NOES!
Another enormous Mitt-Flip pending!
Coming from the guy who likes his American cars so much, he builds them elevators in his homes!
This ought to be good! lol
Too bad for O the 'firewall' is on fire.
Then again, a unicorn is but a horse with a bayonet. [Not mine, I just read that and laughed out loud].
Softening auto bailout stance?
It's down right flaccid!
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahahaha
Too late now, for Romney to try & infect us with his AutoRomnesia.
Our perspicacious President fixed the Auto problem, by working with management and workers to reinvent and restructure.
And now US Auto is back on TOP of the world.
Seeing is believing, and OHIO Auto workers are grateful to President Obama for his faith in American worker.
Take a hike Romney!
Go back to kissing Sheldon Adelson's arse.
ANd speaking of the NYT - you all did catch Jeff Zelensky's article there today, yes?
O just cannot catch a break.
Bottom line gang, most don't realize GM went BK. It did.
Oh and it will again shortly. Not doing so well these days. Just can't make a decent product unfortunately.
Except the Volt - that thing is selling like hot cakes.
What Romney really wrote:
You folks alwways harp on the "there wouldn't have been any Private financing available" meme.
And then you conveniently forget about Fiat.
$42 Billion in the hole to GM and Ally. We'll never, ever get it back.
This dude is banking on ignorance. He is a shape shifting liar, and nobody knows what he really believes. He thinks he is beyond accountability because the clock is winding down.
Seriously, Romney could have a more distinct polarized debate with himself than he did last night with the pres. I believe him when he denies policies that he has gone on record with because he doesn't truly believe a f-in thing..
Feisty - we'll see if Romney can generate at least a "7" on this flip! OMG his lack of a spine is unbelievable. And, now they're broadcasting it!
Feisty - if you don't know, President Obama will be on Leno Wednesday night. Can't wait to see him in a relaxed setting - able to be himself.
Obama/Biden 2012
"Let Detroit Go Bankrupt"
He was way way way off base in his handling of this crisis for thousands upon thousands of auto workers who desperately needed assistance from the government in order to keep their jobs and income.
You can't trust Mitt to have your back. He's never had your back. Never. In his entire life, he hasn't.
He also made a quip last night about working side by side with democrats in MA.
No he didn't. He didn't even know their names. He had his own private elevator so he wouldn't have to talk to them.
The records are all there. The ones he didn't destroy, that is.
wait to see him in a relaxed setting - able to be himself.
Yep on a variety TeeVee show. Right where he belongs.
So SS are you implying that he was "acting" during the debates?
Hey Pat, looks like you've stocked up on the tin foil along with Navy, Feisty and Bev.
Good for you.
Mockingbyrd, of course he is banking on ignorance. After all, look how well it has worked for him.
Seeking,
I'll bring the *popcorn* ;o)
Will you look at WCA?
Little cowards bag of ammo has been reduced to "tin foil" lmao!
How far these losers have fallen!
Per Mitt....In bankruptcy GM could get rid of their pension liability. Just keep screwing the employees!
Pat, Romney spins a lot about his time as governor.
I heard from an MA-er, that the health care plan was handed to Romney when he first came into office.
The health care plan was already a fait accompli.
She said Romney is taking "credit"(?!) for the plan, when all he had to do was sign it.
Hurray for President Obama watching out for American Workers!!!
Romney wanted the employees' pension money and he wanted to cut employees' paychecks so that the wealthy shareholders could take more money OUT of the employees' pockets and transfer that wealth over to the stockholders.
President Obama preserved employees' pensions and the employees' paychecks.
Romney is all about making the rich, richer and the poor, poorer.
Romney has NEVER worked for American Workers and wouldn't know how to; Mitt Romney has spent his entire life working for the benefit of CORPORATE interests ONLY.
Obama/Biden 2012
Feisty - WCA is one of the ones I barely skim past. Never posts anything of value. Popcorn will be great! He and Jay Leno always seem to have fun and the audiences LOVE him!
American Girl - well said and totally correct!
Obama/Biden 2012
Guess what AG? We are the stockholders and see the below as far as who is going to reap what. 50% loss on investment is not what I call gaining wealth.
Instead the bond holders and investors got screwed and the unions won. Now how is that not picking winners and losers. Oh, I forgot, GM stock would still have to double for we the taxpayers who own it via stimulus will ever get close to seeing our money back. $23.82 at close today and we need $57.00. Sweet investment we were forced into huh?
And Jay is the only one who occasionally calls him out. Hell I may even stay up to watch it. Will have to nap first though as I for one have a job I need to be at at 7AM.
It has worked for some, char, and I hope it catches up to him before the 6th. The ire of the right for Obama has blinded them to his very real character flaws.
TO: Talk to the Hand who wrote
What Romney really wrote:
There Romney goes again, trying to lay off American workers, who Romney calls "excess labor" and steal their retirement money, i.e., shed "pension" costs also known as employee retirement pensions!
And Republicans expect American Workers to trust a Vulture Capitalist instead of trusting President Obama who kept those Auto Workers' jobs and pensions!
Uh, NO.
Obama/Biden 2012
Barack O'Romney from last nights debate will say anything to get elected. He almost sounded like a Democrat last night, almost...
The only way Romney gets Ohio is if the people don't understand the difference between losing their jobs and their pensions, and keep them.
Obama/Biden 2012
The Govt bailed out GM. The Govt actually took it over for a short while.
"Bankruptcy" reorganization is another animal entirely.
GM DID NOT go through a standard bankruptcy.
Mitt is hoping Americans don't know the difference.
Government Motors.
If this is a firewall, then I have salt waterfront property in Colorado to sell Mr. Obama and his surrogates.
American Girl-724855....."The only way Romney gets Ohio is if the people don't understand the difference between losing their jobs and their pensions, and keep them."
Thanks to Mr. Obama's administration, 20,000 Delphi non-Union folks LOST THEIR PENSIONS. See 5. above.
American Girl,
Romney couldn't touch emoloyees' pension money......I suggest you research where pension money goes under such a program. Employee accouts are distributed to a controlled pension program with no loss of monies invested by the employee.
There is no loss of employee funds and no employee is harmed.
Where do you uninformed come up with such trash?
People seem to forget that Obama only "saved" the auto industry because Bush started the auto bailout. But who's "airbrushing history" now?
When it is something "good" or "percieved good" then Obama gets all of the credit.
When it is something "bad" or "percieved bad" then it is Bush's fault.
Isn't that the answer for the last 4 years? And people here still wonder why the economy is still in the bad shape it is? And people still want to vote for the blamer, not the fixer?
Which American workers did the president look out for though? Car dealerships went out of business and tons of workers lost their jobs. Not all fat cats. The president seems to have forgotten about them. Others like part suppliers that had to stand in line with other stake holders got less, and lost jobs too. The president changed a hundred years of bankruptcy law to favor one group of stakeholders - UAW members - over all other workers.
Credit holders got less. Think its just fat cats who got an extra close shave so that the UAW could get to the front of the line? GM stock and bonds were held by retirement funds for schoolteachers and firefighters too.
I don't oppose the bailout. Just the sweethearts deal for one class of stakeholder. And no, not the workers. Only some workers. The ones in the right Union.
Where's the fairness in that?
Romney is an unbelievable LIAR. How anybody could vote for this person is beyond comprehension.
Good post Ido, the NBC crowd only thinks they know what's going on. A month ago some blogger claiming to own a dealership said that was saved due to Obama said that the dealerships that did go under were due to the lack of their own success. She stopped replying to me when I pointed out that this is what the republicans have been touting for decades; "You are responsible for your own success".
@unconventional
Only thing that is "fair" in this society are those who are on welfare or vote Democrat.
Everyone else, we live by reality!
Romney is the biggest flipper I've ever seen and sidestepping on the issues is just unbelieveable. I smell another flip comin on the auto bailout in OHIO. Man, this guy just doesn't quit does he.
zeeosix....."
RomneyMr. Obama is an unbelievaable LIAR. How anybody could vote for this person is beyond comprehension."Flashback to the 2008 campaign:
How Progressives argue:
Romney IS cracking that "firewall" here in Ohio.
Contrary to what Obama's folks would like to believe, the entire state does not live and breathe auto bail out or auto industry.
The Columbus Dispatch , a very Dem paper, endorsed ROMNEY.
Not true 1funnygirl - "It is more likely, however that a reorganizing debtor may desire to modify or terminate an existing pension plan. The protections of Bankruptcy Code Section 1113, discussed in Section IX below, apply to any pension plan covered by an existing collective bargaining agreement. If the pension plan in question does not fall under the umbrella of an existing collective bargaining agreement, the debtor need not confront the procedural and substantive hurdles of Bankruptcy Code Section 1113."
(source: http://www.abiworld.org/committees/newsletters/pensionsbenefits/vol1num4/EmployeeDistress.pdf)
If you read the editorial, what you will find is a general outline of what the Obama Administration actually did. The dateline of the editorial is Nov. 18, 2008. More evidence that Romney has clear vision and Obama is the revisionist. Most of you don't have the intestinal fortitude to actually read it and are judging it based on the title. A title that most likely was coined by the NY Times.
The biggest thing Romney has going for him is that Republicans don't know what the hell he's talking about, cause if they did they'd NEVER vote for him.
Instead of trying to pretend that President Obama doesn't have a record, Republicans should have checked Romney's record and find out why his own people refused to re-elect him Governor.
Republicans have been too busy reciting talking points to check out their own candidate.
Obama/Biden 2012
Obama is currently projected to have a 72% chance of winning Ohio. That is not including any bounce from last night's debate.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/
In addition, it was reported today that early voting turnout is higher for Obama than it was in 2008, and down for the GOP. That is also not included in today's 72% estimate:
http://www.politicususa.com/bad-news-romney-ohio-early-voting-turnout-obama-gop.html
Those making fun of Romney on shifting towards Obama's ideals should be careful. This shift is cold and calculated. By shifting toward Obama, Romney is likely to take away voters that give him more weight on the economy.
My jaw dropped when Romney started agreeing with Obama on most foreign policy. That was NOT the same Mitt that debated Obama last Tuesday. He has developed yet another strategy to confuse voters; be like Obama.
@ talk to the hand;
GM has already paid back half of the bailout if we sold all the shares we own today it would come close to paying back the other half. Seems there is no reason to sell right now, there is a better chance the stocks will go up in th near future than down, as we are producing more quality gas efficient cars to counter the Asian market.
Oh and it was because of me the bailout worked, I did it all, it was my idea.lol
I just don't know how a good Evangelical Christian can vote for the Mitt Romney, a Mormon.
But they did know in 2008 what Obama was talking about and they liked it. Liked it so much they couldn't see past the snake oil he was selling. "I'll clean it all up". Now it's "well we didn't realize how bad it was. Give me four more and I will this time, I promise." Well I say BS. You didn't even get half way there on your first round of salesmanship. First time shame on you, Second time shame on us, the American people.
The fact is the auto bail out is just one of many issues where Mitt Romney has clearly stated his position on the issue, ALL OF HIS POSITIONS on the issue.
The problem with Mitt Romney is two fold. You can't tell what he believes in and you can't trust what he tells you.
Mitt Romney tells us he's a car guy. Like a good used car salesman, he'll tell you what he thinks you want to hear. "That Red car is blue underneath." "I don't really want to end Medicare and Social Security, I want to preserve them." "I'm not going to cut taxes for the wealthy."
Ann Romney has mentioned she worries about Mitt's mental state. We all do.
I don't know what is a more scarier scenario :
Mitt Romney as president,
Or
All the tin foil hat, magic underwear wearing followers of his out in the daylight.
I voted today for Obama. Come on Ohio...do the same and sink Mitts battleship!
"Ohioans don't Trust Romney" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When will Romney and Ryan soften their lies about Obama doubling the deficit and being the cause of our 16 trillion dollar debt???? Hmmmm where were all those fine fiscal conservatives when they took charge with the largest surplus in US history???
Bush came to Office in 2001 with a 5.6 trillion dollar SURPLUS projected between 2002-2011. Not only did he completely wipe out the projected surplus, he added 5 TRILLION DOLLARS TO THE NATIONAL DEBT WITH TAX CUTS AND WARS. Over a 10 TRILLION DOLLAR reversal in America's financial status!!! Where were all you deficit warriors then!!!! HMMMM...where the heck were you!!!When Bush left office in 2009, his last year in office, he ran a 1.5 TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT for that year alone!!! I never heard a word out you right-wing, self-righteous republicons about that. Now you want to pretend it all happened in the last 4 years??? You idiots can parrot that Fox Noise BS all you want but its just a pack of lies by a bunch of sanctimonious, irresponsible, finger-pointing HYPOCRITS who want to go back to the very same failed policies!
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/1000562_TaxBreak_092203.pdf
The firewall in Ohio might be breached by treachery on the part of the Romney family.
Given the story of Tagg Romney, the son of Republican Presidential candidate Mitt Romney, has purchased electronic voting machines that will be used in the 2012 elections in Ohio, Texas, Oklahoma, Washington and Colorado. And so, the onslaught of justification enters the subject, carried out with extreme prejudice.
To lie and flip flop on nearly every position is one thing but to win by cheating is unacceptable behavior even from a low down worthless draft dodging elitist bastard.
Ohioans,
Do not believe that lieing azzhole romney. He would outscource you as quickly as he blinks his eyes.
Obama had your back, your families, and your livelihoods in mind when he bailed GM and Chrysler.
It's amazing how an Evangelical Christian can vote for the man but I know plenty of them that will. Mostly because he's a pro life candidate. I can't imagine how anyone with a brain could vote for him.
Facts are fact, little Repubby-boy - the bailout worked, GM is still pumping out cars and millions of Ohioans still have jobs. Again, Etch-a-Sketch, Pretzel-Man Romney is trying one of his shape-shifting voodoo jobs, hoping it will work on the Honey Boo-Boo set of the Ohio Republican base.
"Republican/Romnomics: Feed America's seed corn to the fattest hogs at the slop-trough and hope they poop out jobs."
I cannot work with Congress. Give me four more years and I'll try again. Right.
ROMNEY: HAS MORE FLIP FLOPS THAN THE SHOE CHECK GIRL AT A BAGHDAD MOSQUE
Romney meets Anti-Romney in Parallel Universes...........as he uses affirmative action binder to hire women in MA despite opposing affirmative action.
'The TARP program... was nevertheless necessary to keep banks from collapsing in a cascade of failures.' [1]
'When government is... bailing out banks... we have every good reason to be alarmed.' [2]
'I like health care mandates. The mandates work.' [1]
'I think health care mandates are unconstitutional on the 10th Amendment front.' [2]
'I respect and will protect a woman's right to choose.' [1]
'I never really called myself pro-choice.' [2]
'I believe the tax on capital gains should be zero.' [1]
'Capital gains taxes are a tax cut for fat cats.' [2]
'Roe v. Wade has gone too far.' [1]
'I believe that since Roe v. Wade has been the law for 20 years we should sustain and support it.' [2]
'I'm not trying to return to Reagan-Bush.' [1]
'Ronald Reagan is... my hero.' [2]
'When I first heard of the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy, I thought it sounded awfully silly.' [1]
''Don't Ask, Don't Tell has worked well.' [2]
'If Massachusetts succeeds in implementing health care, then that will be a model for the nation.' [1]
'What works in one state may not be the answer for another.' [2]
'In Massachusetts...the costs of health care will be reduced.' [1]
'We were unable to deal with... health care costs in Massachusetts.' [2]
'I've been a hunter pretty much all my life.' [1]
'Any description of my being a hunter is an overstatement of capability.' [2]
'I'm going to take burdens off the back of the auto industry.' [1]
'Detroit needs a turnaround, not a check.' [2]
'I would like to have campaign spending limits.' [1]
'The American people should be free to advocate for their candidates and their positions without limitations.' [2]
'I supported the assault weapon ban.' [1]
'I don't support any gun control legislation.' [2]
'Based on the numbers of American Muslims... I cannot see that a cabinet position would be justified.' [1]
'A person should not be elected because of his faith nor should he be rejected because of his faith.' [2]
'I'm not in favor of privatizing Social Security or making cuts.' [1]
'Social Security's the easiest to privatize and that's because you can give people a personal account.' [2]
'I don't line up with the NRA.' [1]
'I'm a member of the [NRA].' [2]
'The all-Democrat stimulus that was passed in early 2009 will accelerate the timing of the start of the recovery...' [1]
'The all-Democrat stimulus passed in early 2009 has been a failure.' [2]
'I saw my father march with Martin Luther King.' [1]
'I did not see it with my own eyes.' [2]
'It does take a village to raise a child.' [1]
'It takes a family to raise a child.' [2]
'I'm a strong believer in stating your position and not wavering.' [1]
'I changed my position.' [2]
Ohioans, Don't let the 1% buy our Democracy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ohioans, Don't give the Keys back to the Losers that got us into this mess !!!!!!
Vote for President Obama for Peace & Prosperity !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Romney is just another Carpet Bagger , He wants to be president only for history , He doesn't care about the job. If Massachusetts's wont vote for him and The Main Mormon Newspaper In Utah says to vote for Pres. Obama that should tell you alot about the spineless man
Feisty Fish Smelling Redhead, looks like you haven't douched yet. Your odor is still brewing across the thread. Those food stamps of yours should be able to purchase what you need. Pig
The Middle East is burning. Obama asked us to not spike the football after Bin Laden was killed and then proceeded to spike the ball and danced in the end zone for over a year. No wonder the Muslims hate us.
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
What does this mean?
I find it ironic that during the Republican primaries, every Republican called Mitt a RINO. They pointed out all the times he switched his position, and painted him as a liar that no one can trust.
Now, we are all supposed to trust him. We are all supposed to believe that he will do what he says. Why? What proof do we have that he will stick to what he says? When has he ever been consistent?
Romney has changed positions on every single issue. So what evidence is there to suggest he will not do the same thing now?
Why should I believe that he will not take away my mortgage deduction? Because he "said" he won't? He always changes his mind, so why should I trust him this time?
Why should I believe he will not raise my middle income taxes? Because he "said" he won't? Again, why should I believe him this time?
He has already proven that he is willing to lay off middle class workers, to make himself more money. So why should I believe that he suddenly cares now?
Can anyone give me one reason . . . just one single reason . . . why I should believe anything Romney says, given his history of changing positions on every issue. Just one reason . . . anyone?
bigdogg464....."Obama had your back, your families, and your livelihoods in mind when he bailed GM and Chrysler."
Mr. Obama and his administration is NOT for MAIN STREET America, but for the Unions (auto plants), campaign contributors and special interest groups (Go Green companies that went BANKRUPT).
Further, Mr. Obama and his administration DIRECTED the CEO of Chrysler to quit or retire. How is it a President can tell a CEO of a private company that ? How about the American people tell Mr. Obama to submit his resignation before he gets Impeached.
If in the last four years the top Republicans had spent as much time searching for jobs as they did obsessing on Obama's birth certificate ..........
And for those still trying to find Romney's take on any given position ... best wait until the last second before entering the voting booth ............
Mitt is going to break through the firewall by cheating as always. His son Tagg bought interest in one of the companies that produces the voting machines that will be used for the presidential election. I bet $ that there will be some extra votes for Mitt on any of those machines.
I tried to get GM not make something other then the volt. I tried to get Ford to make something other too. Neither took my free advice to make a more fuel efficient, cheaper car that more people could afford. A new car costs almost as much as some cheap houses, THAT IS A PROBLEM. You wonder why car insurance is so high? Maybe the price of cars has something to do with it.
90% of the time THERE IS ONE PERSON IN A CAR. Why have that seat next to you? Stick your hand out the window going 70 MPH and tell me how much force it takes. Look at that big a$$ windshield in front of you think about how much force is being exerted on it. Imagine if we cut that in half. What would that do for fuel efficiency? How about the weight of the car if we cut it in half then it would weight less. Would that car need as big of an engine? Would that not help fuel economy even more? Yes it would. Would reducing the interior volume require as large of an A/C compressor? No it would not, that would increase fuel economy even more. Half the doors, half the seats, half the metal, smaller tires, etc. Half of everything would mean the car would be MUCH cheaper to produce and sell. People could buy one or two and STILL have enough money for a "normal" car, minivan, SUV, etc. BUT THAT WOULD BE TO F***ING SIMPLE FOR PEOPLE OR CEO'S. Instead we get cars like the POS volt...
Reduce the velocity and energy of heavy vehicles like trucks and suvs and small cars become MUCH SAFER. Drive a big heavy vehicle and that is the price you pay, you do not get to drive as fast. Since you have your friends and family in those large vehicals should you not be driving slower anyway? Would it not save you gas anyway to be forced to drive slower? And it would be safer too since "momentum" kills and not velocity. Surface area has an effect too. For instance a motorcycle going fast can punch through things due to their small frontal area. Once again to f***ing simple for people.
I have never seen a man like Romney hate his father so much, Whatever his father has done Mittens has done the exact opposite, George Romney was a good man for this Country what is the opposite of Good for this Country? Bad You have been warned Independent Voters, are you interested in going back to the losing 800,000 jobs a month days?
Obama/Biden 2012 The USS Bush has been righted let the captain President Obama steer it home
President Obama didn't work. Time for someone new.
Rusty excellet post and quite accurate. But you are wasting your time on this one. The uberleft which proliferate on this posting don't care about facts. They first off won't even read the article and the one or two that do will be able to dismiss it without cause because it doesn't fit their narrative. And yes the title was done by the NY Times team and Romney had nothing to do with it.
it's always nice to report scum like "tothetop" especially whenever he's the lowest of the bottom feeders. And tell ya what Rusty, I'll read your drivel whenever you read this about your Myth:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-20120829
The only thing good about a possible Mitt Romney presidency? We will finally have a death date to put on the tombstone of the republican party. 1865-2013. Lincoln is rolling over in his grave seeing what his party has become. Why do the republicans like to say that they're the party of Lincoln? There hasn't exactly been a noble one since...
What Romney really wrote:
Indie071
I call that a politician myself.
Maybe we should give money values to politician lies. For instance, when O'bama claimed he would cut the deficit in half...that was an 11 trillion dollar lie.
Romney swung so far right last night...Tag took a poke at his old man for calling himself a liar!
Romney swung so far left last night during the debate... He endorsed Barrack Obama for president, dumped ANN and then tried to get a date with Michelle Obama!
Great Post @#1.69 ! Direct quotes of what Mitt Romney is on record as having said IN THE PAST ... prevents the libs from distorting the truth here in the present ! Romney is right, Obama is wrong and the quotes prove it.
Of course, under Obama's plan, normal bankruptcy liquidation rules were bypassed and GM bondholders were SCREWED in the process ... as Bam-Bam bailed out the woefully underfunded Cadillac Health Plans for Union retirees ... all on the government nickel ! What a way to buy votes ... with someone else's money, Uncle Sams !
Now the GM stock our government holds is worth substantially less than what Obama has invested in it ! Obama will leap at any horrible investment and throw money at it in hopes of getting re-elected !
So help me understand:
Obama provided a bailout to Chrysler, then two years later sold Chrysler to a foreign company (Fiat) for a loss of $1.3 billion for the US taxpayers.
I thought the point was to build a strong US manufacturing base. How did selling to a foreign company secure this going forward?
I'm not sure why Mitt Romney has been changing his position back and forth on different policies the last year, but it makes me nervous.
All along I have been trying to figure out the deal with college education funding and tax credits for those of us with kids in college, and I still can't get a straight answer. Every time the answer is different.
And it worries me about last night's debate when Romney was suddenly agreeing with all the President's current foreign policies after Romney has taken an almost war-like stance about the Middle East and foreign policy for the past year.
I know Mr. Romney's five sons will never go to war, but I have two sons who could be eligible.
Like Dr. Phil says, "the best indication of future behavior is past behavior." And the GOP has always had two loves: MONEY and WAR. I don't think that has changed.
And now he's playing with words in an effort that almost looks like brainwashing to get votes in Ohio.
What should a voter believe? How do we know what he would do if he were in office?
I used to think if Mitt Romney won, it would not be the end of the world, but now I am not so sure ...
Very scary.
Romney getting close in the polls and the stock market goes down, cause and effect, I think the market knows something about Romney and his failed Bush Policys, If Romneys wins, the market will CRASH. Good bye 401k, Hello soup Kitchens,and 12% Unemployment
As it stands today ... Romney could best McCain by picking up NV, CO, IA, and IN ... but that would still leave him short by 58 electoral votes ... which means he could also take FL, and OH and still fall short ...
That means he has to sell a lot of used cars in the next couple of weeks ...
The fools are there to be had ... BUT ... looks dim
Road warriorette.....and repubs still angry that Bin Laden was killed by President Obamaand team America...they would rather have Bin laden alive and killing Americans just to make the president look bad....they whine screaming Bin Laden is not dead, then when President Obama affirms that he is dead , the repubs whine saying he is dancing.......
REPUBLICANS HATE AMERICAN SUCCESS SO MUCH THEY MOURN THE LOSS OF BIN LADEN!!!!
GW Bush GAVE $700 billion taxpayer dollars to the banksters in 2008...when will be get that back?
To all you folks out there in Ohio, Remember Romney would have destroyed your state had the auto loan from America not happened as he wanted. No bank was going to loan GM anything as all the Banksters like Romney wanted it dissolved. Who do you think would have bought everything?? Probably Mitts friends in China, just like the ones he's selling his company Senata in Free-port, Illinois to right now??
America is actually going to make a profit on the GM loan when this deal is done. Romney would have had you all on food stamps so he could say there are another five more million on food stamps
He's a damn liar that wont stop lying. He lies about getting tough on China while he is selling his High Tech sensor manufacturing company in America to China. I don't call this patriotic, I call is Vulture Capitalism or Treason.
The President saved your states economy so think about it now and go vote for him. America cannot to go back the the Bush years and cannot afford Mitts arithmetic.
Romney will win Ohio because of the Carter Effect, when you have a President in office that is worse than Jimmy Carter (Mr.Obama), even Ohio will vote for Romney. Vice President Joe Biden is right when he says " Middle Class Americans have been buried the last four years", under the Obama administration.
silverton
I am right there with you, although my concern is primarily focused on the mortgage deduction, state tax deductions, and middle class taxes.
Romney "says" he will not remove those deductions, and will not tax the middle class more . . . but every report shows that he can not pay for his plan any other way. So what is a voter to believe?
He has changed positions so many times, how do I know he will not change his position again?
I see this election as a gamble. Am I willing to bet my mortgage deduction and a possible tax increase on the belief that this will be the one time Romney does not change position? That is a lot of money to put on the line, given his record.
I also find it weird that with as much screaming the Republicans do over the debt, they have no problem with Romney adding $7 trillion to it. The tax policy center said he would have to remove ALL of our deductions, AND increase taxes on the middle class to pay for that . . . and then we still have the rest of the debt to take care of. I'm sorry, but that is NOT being "fiscally responsible".
Romney the Cult of Mormon member, will have a better chance to put on his magic underwear and talk to Joseph Smith on the planet KOLOB, Than to FOOL the American Voting Public about becoming POTUS
Obama/Biden 2012
Vote like you and your childrens Middleclass life depends on it because it does
@Morton:"I just don't know how a good Evangelical Christian can vote for the Mitt Romney, a Mormon"
Pretty funny. My guess is you are neither Evangelical or Christian? Mormons engage in full immersion baptism. And Evangelical Christians are pro-life to the nth degree. Obama is pro-partial birth abortion, so the Evangelicals don't hesitate to vote pro-life. They believe in accountability to a higher power.
No Evangelical or Christian would ever be caught Voting for a Cult of Mormon Member, They know that GOD would not let them in to the Pearly Gates by Voting for a False Prophet. I have 3 christian family members not voting for Romney they are voting for Gary Johnson, They want to make SURE they will be in the KINGDOM of Heaven when there time comes, and from what I can tell There might be alot of space in the Kingdom because of Ignorant Christians
And does this surprise you? Bain's stock in trade during Romney's years at the helm was looting pension funds. They did it at GST Steel, they did it at Dade Behring, they did it to American Pad and Paper, the list just goes on and on.
Romney is pissed about the GM bailout. That's because he never got a chance to loot that company!
I'm with JAX.
Romney was smart last night. He made himself look "just like Obama" in so many ways it was ridiculous--and that was his plan. Everybody LIKES Obama's foreign policy. If there's no difference, then that's one more thing people don't have to worry about if Romney is President. Nevermind that he's had these positions for only several minutes.....
This is my George Costanza after-the-fact response that Obama should have made:
Barack Obama gave a speech today in Dayton, Ohio today and showed his true colors once again.
He stood in front of that crowd and spoke of Mitt Romney with such contempt and arrogance it amazed me.
I can only hope that the great American citizens of Ohio can see through Barack Obama and vote him out on November 6th.
We do not need or want this Liar in Chief to lead our great nation.
He stood in front of the crowd and told them that he had kept his promises to Ohioans and Americans and as I listened I wondered how he could kiss his children with that mouth, or even sleep at night.
If he wasn’t just blatantly lying he was twisting the truth so bad it was no longer recognizable, which is really the only way he can hope to win.
This Liar in Chief broke his first promise to the American people when he signed the Lilly Ledbetter Law just 2 days after it was passed.
Obama repeatedly promised not to sign bills without first giving the public five days to comment. And that was just the first of a LONG list of broken promises.
I’m not going to list all of them; you all know what they are…
I have confidence that Ohio will send this poor excuse for a president packing. I look around the state of Ohio and the atmosphere is NOTHING like it was in 2008.
No Obama banners hanging from buildings, no Obama signs filling yards as far as they eye can see, no Hope and Change signs either.
What I do see is Romney support EVERYWHERE! Banners, signs, posters, and excited voters!
I know Ohio will come through for the nation as sure as I know Ohio is the Mother of Presidents!
...
Romney The Liar and Thief
To all the right wing nut jobs. How do you feel now that Romney has become a liberal? He's now in favor of abortions; in favor of contraception care; in favor of Government bailouts; says he'll repeal Obamacare, but will keep in place pretty much all of the provisions in that law; seems to adore Obama and can't agree with him enough. How does it feel to be had?!?
To all you so called evangelicals. Romney is in favor of abortions and contraceptive care. And, he's in favor of equal pay for women. Thanks for supporting my nomination, but since I want to be elected, screw your right wing extremists. So! IN YOUR EAR!!
Man, little mousy Ryan must be constantly asking himself, "how did I get involved with this liberal, socialist prick?? Any day now, Romney will announce that he's once again for marriage equality. That would be the ultimate insult to all the right wing nut jobs that supported Romney during the republican primaries. Talk about betrayal!!
Actually, the way things are going, it seems that it doesn't matter who gets elected. Romney is now to the left of Obama. So, you right wing freaks, how does it feel to not have anyone representing your views?
I love it..........
So, Mr. Spanky, how do you like the new and improved Romney?
@Independent, your sources who vote for Gary are enabling a partial-birth abortion guy to remain as POTUS. Even the dead serious Bob Jones Evangelicals I know are voting pro-life for Romney. And Billy Graham took Mormons of his cult list.
No matter how you want to rationalize it, a vote for Johnson or not voting is a vote for Obama.
Wrestle w/ your consciences, I guess.
The leaders of the far right have failed their following big time. Filling them with misinformation and hate only to retain power ... and making their following suffer while blaming others for their suffering ...
They have not only failed their following but have put a blemish on our nation!
AND ... even though they didn't want him ... they would use Romney to further their power ... no matter who it hurts!
Clotho
Forget the cheesy flash polls. What is important is the undecideds. In ALL the undecided focus groups most said that Mitt got their vote.
The same thing occured on the previous two debates. The S.S. Obama is about to take on more water.
tickedoff - not even close. Ohio will again go for Obama - not by as much as last time but they will vote Obama. Unless of course, Tag uses the voting machines to FIX the race for his dad.
Obama/Biden 2012
Did Obama prevent Detroit from going bankrupt? No! Ford didn't go bankrupt. The City of Detroit is bankrupt all on it's own thanks to the dems who run the city. Chrysler and GM? They went bankrupt. The bid difference is that Obama spent a ton of taxpayers' money before they filed and it is forever lost and for that, the shareholders of GM lost their interest in the companies and the Unions gained interest in the companies and the Taxpayers are on the hook for even more money. I have no clue why investing $60 billion in an 2 companies and ending up with something worth $25 billion is such a great deal. I suppose that someone, somewhere thinks that such a deal is better than having taxpayers put no money into the deal, have the companies come through bankruptcy and then have the companies come out of bankruptcy financially sound with the government merely guaranteeing the loans that will allow the companies to continue. I suppose those are the same people who think that Obama's deficits increasing by over $6 trillion over 4 years and an unemployment rate that is still higher than anything under the Bush administration is a great deal.
I'd spell out the fact that unemployment has remained above 8% for Obama's entire term, but it is useless trying to point out something so basic as an increase of 114,000 jobs in an economy of 144,000,000 jobs can't possible reduce the unemployment rate unless you magically reduce the number of people who are in the workforce, and have the unemployment rate drop by .03% The number of jobs created, given their own statistics, is less than 1 tenth of 1 percent. Of course, it never dawned on the brainless to ask how that could happen. Actually, without spelling it out, most of those same people haven't a clue what I'm talking about. I'm not going to spell it out as if you can't figure it out you are too dumb to be allowed to vote.
StarSailing,
"Romney swung so far left last night during the debate... He endorsed Barrack Obama for president, dumped ANN and then tried to get a date with Michelle Obama!"
What a cut!!! Are you for real? I think, most of us would rather date Obama's dog before, he eats it after the election!!!
DB Akron ... If it makes you feel better ... you keep believing that!!!!
After Romney taking it in the shorts big time last night ... an independent would have to be a fool .....
There are no TRUE Believers in Jesus Christ voting for Romney, you may have some weekend warrior believers in Jesus Christ who are voting for Romney but the TRUE BELIEVERS IN JESUS CHRIST ARE EITHER NOT VOTING OR ARE VOTING FOR GARY JOHNSON. They know they CANNOT be a false witness to a Leader of a Mormon Cult and then Try and get into the Kingdom of Heaven. In Jesus name Amen
Wake Up Ohio, Romney, his wife, son Tagg purchased in Nov. 2011 a company Solamere, electronic voting machines, which are notoriously known for faulty machines. Once again they will lie, cheat, their way to the Presidency. I did some extensive research, these machines are in Ohio, Texas and Oklahoma. This is a huge conflict of interests and should not be allowed, and you know righties if the Obama did this, would be having hissy fits too. How can anyone trust this man, or his party, they have no shame, if the Democrates did this I would be so ashamed and vote for the other guy because this is just plain wrong. Also in Ohio the Republican Gov will be monitoring these voting machines, and will not be open to the public. Eric Holden needs to get involved now and launch an investigation immediately. Did we not learn anything since Florida, apparently not.
Hope all you Republicans are proud of your party, you should be ashamed!
Larry,
When Romney resigned Bain in 2002, his resignation was retroactive, his position eliminated, and his ownership transferred to non-voting shares. This is called being a silent partner. later in the year Romney transferred his assets into a blind trust. Romney has no say on anything Bain is up to.
You are reading and believing fiction, because the Managing Partner Matt Levin is the power behind Bain. Mr. Levin throws his support to Obama as a campaign bundler and speaker at the 2012 DNC Convention.
Managed nothing. GM will be BK in 2014 again... Then what?
So nobody can explain why Obama thought selling a bailed out Chrysler to Fiat (for a $1.3 billion loss to the taxpayers) builds a strong US manufacturing base moving forward into the future?
newscover.
Early voting AND absentees show republican 7 points closer to the democrat's early and absentee voting in 2008. I'm afraid to break it to you, but that is only 1/3 of the Ohio vote in and Republicans turn out higher on election day than on the early voting days.
The polls you trust are using a 7 - 8 point Democrat advantage that clearly is not happening.
Obama won by 4.8 points in 2008. If the early voting is any indication, Obama has lost Ohio.
To IndependentinSD
You can pick on Romney all you want but leave my church alone. I am a proud member of my church. I used to be a Catholic at one time until I was introduced to this church. As Harry Reid said, Romney is not the face of Mormonism. I too have no clue where Romney is coming from. He flip flops more than any candidate that I have ever seen. I believe he is about wealth and his wealthy friends. He has no idea what the middle class is all about. If anyone votes for Romney/Ryan you are voting to move the wealthy forward and the middle and poor further backward. A person could find out alot by asking him questions like, how much money does a middle class person normally earn? How much is their gas bill, electric bill, food bill, have you ever used coupons? What does a loaf of bread cost? Don't vote for the wealthy, vote for your best interest.
Vote for Obama/Biden 2012
And you still wonder why Democrats bring up Bush??? The reason we lefty liberals like to bring up the abject failure of the Bush administration can be explained in two words: Jimmy Carter. For well over 30 years, Republicans have always pointed to Democrats as "the party of Carter," where we are unfairly accused of being ineffective and weak on practically every front. You Republicans have mentioned Carter for about 32 years; that means Obama and the Democrats get to mention Bush for about 28 more years, or 7 more presidencies. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
No offense, but if the bailout had not happened, over a million Americans just like you would be unemployed in 2009. That would have pushed the unemployment rate well over 10% and kept the nation in a recession until perhaps mid-to-late 2010. So what do you want??? You being employed for another few months or maybe a year and then laid off with even less chances of getting employed then you have now????
Really??? Are you that stupid to think that cutting taxes by $5 trillion for a bunch of millionaires will actually fix the economy??? Are you that stupid to think that our nation can afford another $2 trillion in defense spending on top of our current $7-8 trillion deficits??? Are you that stupid to think that Romney can just come into office, sign off a massive tax cut, and then everything will be all hunky-dory??? If that's so, then I feel sick to my stomach about the future of this country.
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
I was shocked that Romney was dumb enough to bring up the auto industry bailouts. Why did he want to remind the voters in Ohio that he opposed the bailout and wanted GM & Chrysler to go bankrupt? Did he really think that was going to help him win that battleground state where 1 out of every 8 jobs is tied to the auto industry?
I'm considering changing my vote to Obama purely on the grounds that Romney is just too stupid to be an effective president.
So it all hinges on whether he was lying then or if he's lying now? How sad. FDR beat Hoover by 17% Reagan beat Carter by about the same running against Carter and a former GOP third party candidate. If Romney wins it won't be anywhere near as spectacular a win. Maybe just a electoral college win. Would you by a used car from someone that lied to you this much? No.
Romney entitled his 2008 New York Times article: "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt."
"Managed Bankruptcy?"
Mitt wanted to cut the salaries of the automobile workers and shed their pensions and retirement benefits. He wanted to eliminate a substantial number of the U.S. automobile industry's workers' jobs. Mitt stated that he would eliminate the jobs of all of the industry's top-level management staff and bring in new "innovative" people.
If private capital could be found, Mitt's goal was to have "private investor's" to "procure" the industry. Mitt's then wanted to issue government guarantees to these investors.
It is not a managed bankruptcy to let a segment as important as our automobile/ manufacturing segment to fail, and then through the moneyed folks, resurrect the industry.
If Romney had been our president, Detroit would have collapsed!
Obama/Biden 2012!
You folks alwways harp on the "there wouldn't have been any Private financing available" meme.
And then you conveniently forget about Fiat.
1) Fiat isn't big enough to take on a company the size of GM. Chrysler was a fraction of GM's size, and even then, Fiat only bought it after the bad assets/large debts were moved to a separate company owned by the government.
2) If Fiat had bought GM, Romney would now be criticizing Obama for selling off our industrial companies to foreigners (especially if Bain didn't get a cut of the action).
Romney lied about the auto bailout.
The factories would be being reassembled in China right now if Romney had been in charge.
Road Warrior,
You think the Democrats are going to work with Romney? Do you really think the repeal of Obamacare is ever going to get to his desk? Not a prayer of ever getting out of the Senate. In all likelihood, the Democrats may actually pick up a couple more Senate seats, but even if they don't, the Republicans sure as hell aren't going to have a filibuster proof majority!
If you don't think that a bill to repeal Obamacare isn't going to unite the Democrats like never before, you are simply naive.
Do you know how Romney "worked with" the Democratic legislature in Massachusetts? Simple, he rolled over. Romney vetoed 400 bills out of their legislature and 90% of them got overturned by the legislature. Romney worked with Democrats by behaving like one.
Do you think the Tea Party is going to "work with" Romney? Fat chance. The Tea Party wanted no part of Romney. During the primaries and after Romney has worked his lying tongue off trying to get Tea Party support and in the last two weeks he has back tracked from virtually every Tea Party position he took earlier. Romney is a chameleon and the only thing he will succeed in doing is screwing up foreign policy and destroying the middle class.
The reality is that old school conservatives will work better with Obama in a second term because they realize that if they don't, they will lose the White House, and in many cases their own jobs, for many elections to come. The reality is that a fair number of Tea Party Congressmen are going to get ejected from Congress. Half of them only won in 2010 because it was a midterm election. In many cases they only garnered 20% of the electorate and won. Different story in a Presidential election year. The Democrats will pick up quite a few House seats although it is highly unlikely that the Republicans will lose their majority. Old school Republicans are far more likely to work with Blue Dog Democrats to overwhelm the Tea Party. Think about it, it's not like a single Tea Party bill ever got to the President's desk in the last two years. The reality is that in 2012 it will be even more unlikely.
Romney can say what ever he wants, but he's going nowhere without a super majority in the Senate, and that simply isn't going to happen. With Obama re-elected, the "need" to block an Obama re-election will be gone. There will be no point in continuing the blocking strategy unless they want to assure a Hillary Cllinton Presidency in 2016 with most likely a super majorityin the Senate and a very likely majority in the House. By the time the 2016 election rolls around, "white bread" Americans will be a minority. Just a simple fact of demographics. Old school Republicans know full well that if they don't play ball, they won't win another election for a half century!
That is reality. Time to face up to it. Just as Tea Baggers seem to think their 15% of the population can rule the country, is a misguided mindset. Sure they may control some regional districts but the reality is they aren't big enough and just over the last two years their numbers have been shrinking. Bottom line is that urban populations are growing while rural populations are in decline. Guess what that means? If Republicans don't change leaning back toward the center, they are done. Smart Republican know this. Tea Baggers are delusional.
Think Romney will be better for the economy? Grow a brain! Leading economists tell us that if we don't change a single thing, we will add 12 million jobs in the next 4 years. The same economists tell us that Romney will only reduce that number and if he were somehow able to get his "tax plan" passed, it would actually cost jobs.
Romney seriously believes that he is a "fixer" and that no task is too complicated. He did this in business, (With the exception of the nearly 25% of his failed businesses.) But Romney still "succeeded"when he failed because it was about making profit for a few people. In business Romney was the boss and people listened or they were gone. Well this ain't business and Congress isn't some ass kissing lackeys of his. Oh and more importantly, he can't fire them for not listening to him.
Wake up and look at the long view. In a chess game, capturing one piece doesn't mean checkmate. Government isn't all that different. Fool yourself if you want and if Romney manages to somehow pull off a win, don't be surprised when it doesn't work out like you thought it would.
Mitt is the Smooth Criminal!! Detriot are you okay?
Already he seem to have the seniors in FL.eating out of the palm of his hands while he goes in for the kill. If he gets in, wap, medicare becomes a voucher program and they are back in the donut hole. But the seniors are warming up to his lying charm. All the CEOs love Mitt, even the bailed out ones, they are pouring millions into Mitt's coffers. Who will bail them out next time? Mitt has promised to remove the regulations so that they could slide back into the crisis position that they were in before.
Women are warming up to Mitt too. Even though he promise to put judges like Bork on the SC. Bye bye Roe.v and contraceptives. Can everyone say barefoot and pregnant. Funny, in the debate last night Mitt was all for womens rights in the Muslim world, but not at home. Here Mitt keeps them in binders. Mitt sends his best overseas, his Swiss bank account his Cayman accounts, the outsourced jobs to China, and his womens rights in Afghanistan.
Factcheck
Part of this Democrat effort involves distorting and misquoting something Romney wrote in the New York Times, back in November 2008, in a piece entitled “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt.” He didn’t call for erasing Detroit from the face of the earth, or shutting down the auto industry. You’d never know it from Granholm’s crazy speech, but in substance, Romney used this op-ed to call for… almost exactly what Barack Obama actually did.
The key paragraph reads as follows: “The American auto industry is vital to our national interest as an employer and as a hub for manufacturing. A managed bankruptcy may be the only path to the fundamental restructuring the industry needs. It would permit the companies to shed excess labor, pension and real estate costs. The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk.”
Morton Mgonigal
I just don't know how a good Evangelical Christian can vote for the Mitt Romney, a Mormon
I do. If God tells them to do it, they better. King Saul was supposed to wipe out a city and save no one or any live stock. He instead kept the best sheep, goats, and cattle. That is why he lost the Kingdom.
His Replacement was a little shephard boy called David. Samuel wanted to annoint his older brothers, but instead Samuel LISTENED TO GOD and annoited David. This is what the Evangelicals should be doing, not following checklists they think they see in the Bible.
IF you are indeed an evangelical, you should be walking by faith, not by sight. And yes that might mean voting for a Mormon, if that is what God's desire for you to do is.
Feisty (Fishy), American Girl: Have you ANY education, can you not read or do you just want to iterate Obama's lies. Romney clearly said: "... a managed bankruptcy for the auto manufactures partially supported by government guarantees."
It is at the bottom of the second paragraph of the Article, or can't you read that far?
Romney is a FOOL! He changed his stance on at least 5 issues again last night in the debates, from Iran to education. Can't the other fools who believe this crap see he says one thing to the conservatives and then tried to be a moderate in the debates. Ignorance is bliss people!
how come when adult changes his stance i'st a flip flop and when a dem does it it is evolving?
TO: ldo who wrote:
That's where Employee Unions are located, right here on Main Street America, and the CEO of Chrysler brought down Chrysler and forced the American People to bail Chrysler out, so yeah, I go with asking a loser like that to resign.
I don't think Republicans have any idea or clue of what Employee Unions are, I think all they know is that Unions lean toward Democrats.
If it weren't for the Democrats, there would be no Chrysler, and that's probably why Employee Unions support the Democrats.
I saw Mitt Romney on TV respond to the possibility of Chryler going bankrupt, he didn't hesitate for even one second to say "Let it!" because Romney knew there was money in those Employees' Pension Fund, and those jobs could be shipped overseas.
Romney can't help but think like the Vulture Capitalist he's always been.
If you're a working person, you'd have to be a pure nut to vote for any Republican. All Republicans have done for the past 4 years is stall our Economic Recovery for their own personal gain!
Obama/Biden 2012
Can you imagine how angry Barry would get if he actually was under stress? I mean look how upset he gets when a reporter questions his statement or points out the error in something he has done. He just about blew a fuse debating with Romney over his failures in the White House.
Can't you just see him blowing his top if the US had a real crisis?
It's time for him ot go before we need someone with a cool head.....
Vote Romney/Ryan
Romney/Ryan = POOP/POOP....FLIP/FLOP.....DUMB/ASS
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012 = PURE/GOLD....WINNER WINNER/CHICKEN DINNER
Mitt Romney as a Church Elder believed in this
Mormons think that Jesus's
Atonement is not Sufficient:
Young and later Mormon apostles and
presidents taught that the blood of Christ was not sufficient to cover all sins.
However, by having their blood spilled on the ground, the guilty could make
atonement for their own sins and obtain a better salvation at the resurrection.
What sort of sins did Young and others consider beyond the reach of Christ’s
forgiveness? Various Mormon documents mention murder, adultery, whoredom,
stealing, lying, marrying or having sexual intercourse with a Negro, and
apostasy.
Sounds like Romney has a few of those items covered already
Christians for Obama 2012
Tired,
George Soros, a supporter of Obama owns the master computer company that totals the votes for the US election.
Jim, if it Obama was a Republican, the Democrats would be beating down the door to have him removed on his record alone. If it was a Republican that said they would cut the deficit and didn't, they would be all over it. Democrats are a funny breed, really. Americas Donkey party. It fits!
For all those who want a different view of the Future of America. Hosted by Larry King. Third party debate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yy5wArfuIA
Mormons call Christ their elder brother believing that, like themselves, his
spirit was begotten celestially by God through intercourse with a heavenly
mother. They believe Christ’s incarnation resulted from God having sexual
intercourse with Mary.
Well Christians this is Mitt Romneys Religion, God having sex with Mary, and I hope you dont vote for this Mormon Moron
Obama/Biden 2012
IndependentinSD
Pure BS
I suggest you explain why Daniel pledge his life to two different Gentile, non-beleiving Kings (Nebuchanezzer and Darius)
I suggest you explain why Mordecai pledged himself to Artaxerxes.
The ruler for you and I is the one God permits you to have based on whether you chose the one HE wants you to select.
The gross misunderstandings of Christianity by so called Christians are bad enough, let alone those by non-Christians.
Mom Mitt Romney stole my homework, said I was late for classm and took my lunch money.
Speak to your father he's the one voting for Mitt.
Absolutely.
Under Romney, China will be the U.S.'s biggest employer!
tempusfuit1
The putting up a section on their website about cults, was something that should never have been done. Errors in theology and practice need to be handled in a private manner.
The truth is almost all denominations have their additions that should not be there. If it is indeed God's church God will deal with it in his own way. That is not to say that when there is something of question of a belief or practice that those who know different shouldn't say something.
"But the biggest tell was the now infamous 180 on social issues he had pledged to defend while trying to get elected in the first place. In July of 2005, he penned an op-ed in the Boston Globe saying that his "convictions have evolved and deepened during my time as governor" -- the once staunch defender of a woman's right to choose began describing himself as "firmly pro-life" just in time to hit the national conservative circuit.
Likewise, his commitment to advance "full equality" for gays and lesbians quickly fell by the wayside. Ditto past statements on guns, greenhouse gases, abstinence education and immigration. These are politically pragmatic decisions when someone is planning to run for the Republican nomination, but they are not the actions of a conviction politician."
And if he wins ... it will be feet up on the White House desk time with that @!$%# eating grin ... laughing and telling his circle of envious friends ."let's outsource the whole f-ing nation and get hat" ............. ha ha ha
Seeking Sanity
Soffolk University just released an Ohio poll today. 47 - 47. This is a pretty accurate state by state poll. They are using 39% Democrat 35% Republican. That may be the a point or two more difference in favor of the Democrats than the reality in 2 weeks.
What is most important is the 47%. Historically, Challengers usually take better than half of the undecided vote at this point. Let's go back to the Ohio focus Group last night that ended 6 - 2 in favor of Romney last night.
Hope your not getting pale about now. Breath. It's okay, you are only experiencing what those who voted from someone other than Obama experienced 4 years ago. Really, it's okay, the sun does come up tomorrow!
KevinQ how old are you? Wow
Wonder what will happen when they finish delivering the government order?
Drill Baby Drill
2014 is a break, what I was seeing about GM was bankrupt as early as June of next year!
Michael-4273928
Although Romney is not the Face of the LDS, he is far more "Christian" than the average Christian.
While some evangelical Christians are defending
the presidential candidacy of Mormon Mitt Romney from an attack by Al Sharpton,
another prominent pastor is going further in his condemnation – saying a vote
for the former Massachusetts governor is a vote for Satan.
That's the word from Bill Keller, host of the
Florida-based Live Prayer TV program as well as LivePrayer.com.
"If you vote for Mitt Romney, you are voting
for Satan!" he writes in his daily devotional.
Keller also comes out swinging against the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints as a cult.
"This message today is not about Mitt Romney,"
he writes. "Romney is an unashamed and proud member of the Mormon cult founded
by a murdering polygamist pedophile named Joseph Smith nearly 200 years ago. The
teachings of the Mormon cult are doctrinally and theologically in complete
opposition to the Absolute Truth of God's Word. There is no common ground. If
Mormonism is true, then the Christian faith is a complete lie. There has never
been any question from the moment Smith's cult began that it was a work of Satan
and those who follow their false teachings will die and spend eternity in hell."
Keller is also critical of other evangelicals
who have reached out to Romney.
"I have watched in horror over the past weeks
as one evangelical Christian leader after another has either endorsed,
supported, or just as bad, refused to denounce Romney's run for the White House
and those Christian leaders who support him," Keller writes. "Last weekend Pat
Robertson, founder of CBN and Regent University, had Romney deliver the keynote
address to the graduates of Regent. Regent is one of the great Christian
colleges in this nation, and Robertson allowed this cult member to deliver the
commencement address. Is he out of his mind? Do you think there would ever be a
true Gospel preacher giving the commencement address at Brigham Young?"
Keller warned about Mormonism:
"I have been warning you for years now about
this cult born out of the pits of hell and responsible for sending millions of
souls to eternal damnation," Keller says. "For the nearly 200 years this cult
has been in existence they have strived for mainstream acceptance. They are the
most devious of all the cults since they have always tried to portray themselves
as 'just another Christian group' when in fact, they are no more Christian than
a Muslim is! Their deception starts with their name, the Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter Day Saints. Sounds like a Christian church doesn't it? Some Mormons
have recently changed their name to simply Community of Christ to disguise even
better who they are in an attempt to lure people in."
Keller says that when LDS members talk of God
and Jesus they are not talking about the God and Jesus of Christianity. He
claims Romney's high-profile candidacy for the presidency is an important effort
by the church to gain credibility and respectability.
He says if Romney wins the White House,
millions of people will be attracted to Mormonism.
"Those who follow the false teachings of this
cult, believe in the false jesus of the Mormon cult and reject faith in the one
true Jesus of the Bible, will die and spend eternity in hell," Keller charges.
"Romney getting elected president will ultimately lead millions of souls to the
eternal flames of hell!"
Keller also criticizes Romney for political
flip-flops on issues like abortion, citing a recent report that his wife donated
money to Planned Parenthood, the largest abortion provider in the world.
There is no excuse, no justification for
supporting and voting for a man who will be used by satan to lead the souls of
millions into the eternal flames of hell!"
Freshieee
The Carter effect is not fully understood. But, from what I have seen and not said boo about, and won't say boo about, It's happening, but I am have no clue as to how big.
DB Akron ... I would advise that you to take a look at what is projected at the electoral college level and stop nit-picking ... your man is so far away right now and he didn't need that awful showing last night ....
Let's recognize Mormonism for what it is...A
CULT! The lie of Mormonism is not a new problem. Paul himself had
to deal
with the issue of "cults," those who perverted the Gospel. Paul spoke of this
often in his writings, "...but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert
the gospel of Christ" (Galatians 1:7). Cults are nothing new. The bottom line in
Mormonism is a denial of the deity of Jesus Christ.
In Revelation 1:8, Jesus Christ proclaims that He
is Almighty God! Nearly every cult denies the deity of Christ or somehow
diminishes it. Many Mormons will lie to you and say that they believe in the
Jesus of the Bible, but they are not telling you the truth. In Mormon theology,
their Jesus is NOT a deity! THE JESUS OF THE BIBLE IS ALMIGHTY
GOD!
Although Mormons use the Bible, it is NOT their final authority as
it is for the Christian. Their authority
lies in the writings of the lunatic
Joseph Smith and their cult's Doctrine and Covenants statement. Only faith in
Jesus Christ, the Jesus of the Bible will get you into Heaven. The Mormon cult
spends tens of millions each year in public relations to portray themselves as
"just another Christian church." DO NOT LET THEIR ADS FOOL YOU. They are no
more a Christian church than your local mosque is!
WARNING: Do NOT
be taken in by the warm and fuzzy exterior of this cult, Mormons are NOT
Christians. And when they say the name Jesus, it is NOT the Jesus of the Bible!
esus said, "Ye must be born again!" -John 3:3.
asdad48
The fact checkers showed Obama LIED about what Romney had written.
First, GM still went through Bankruptcy.
The difference is that Obama Brokered a deal that paid his supporters and screwed the investors and creditors.
Second, Romney wrote that the GM should go through the Bankruptcy process to receive loan guarrantees from the Fed. This would make the investors put up the money, just like was done for Chrysler in 1977.
What Obama's deal included was what kind of products the government wanted them to sell, including the Chevy Volt. The Government mandated products and Union ownership is part of the reason that the GM is headed to Bankruptcy again. Both parties are responsible for putting to heavy demands on a vulnerabled company. This would not have happened if it had been done privately.
Newscover
An established trend of losing 2 - 4 points per week for 3 weeks projects to a Romney winning In Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Nevada, New Hampshire and a few others.
The people of Massachusetts are happy to tell you why Romney should not be the next President of the United States and that is the reason he did not run for a second term as Governor. He would have lost to Deval Patrick overwhelmingly.
Date Approval Disapproval Notes
2/2003 56% 23% Beginning of term
6/2003 56% 36%
9/2003 61% 36%
11/2003 66% 33%
4/2004 58% 40%
9/2004 55% 44%
3/2005 50% 37%
8/2005 50% 40%
3/2006 46% 47%
6/2006 39% 56%
11/2006 34% 65%
12/2006 39% 59% End of term
DB Akron ... you have a typical Fox spin ... now let's look at reality ...
Romney favored private loans to finance the automakers' restructuring in bankruptcy court. His proposed government loan guarantees would only have come after the companies went through bankruptcy. At the time, however, both automakers were nearly out of cash and were bad credit risks. The banking system was in crisis and private money wasn't available. So without hefty government aid, the assets of both companies probably would have been sold in liquidation auctions.
Now is it that hard to just deal with the truth!!!!!
Independent
I don't believe you follow this teacher. The only reason you are bringing this man into this political race is foul it up with unprovable insults and defamation.
I happened to have morman in college. I am certain the guy you quote is "guilding the Lilly". Out of ignorance or for gain.
Using religion on people to turn people against or for someone is about as low as one can go.
This election is not about LDS, it is about people like ME who don't have a full time job because business people and industry are being choked to death by our own government!
Gil,
Romney entitled his article, "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt."
In the article he states his plan for a "managed bankruptcy."
Mitt was calling for eliminating the jobs of many automobile workers, shaving their pensions and retirement benefits, whittling down the salaries of the remaining workers and firing all of Detroit's top-level management staff.
He then explained that he would bring in private investors to "manage" [what was left of] Detroit. In 2008, investment capital was not plentiful. There was no guarantee that "investors" would step in to save Detroit.
Romney's actions assured that a bankruptcy would occur, without any guarantee that the industry would be saved!
Whether it is about economic, political or social issues, Romney is reckless.
Refer back to his words," Let Detroit Go Bankrupt."
Newcover Fox News who?
I'm HERE most of the time!
DB Akron
I'm HERE most of the time!
That is your problem. You blame Obama for YOU not getting of YOUR A$$ and getting a JOB. why dont you take some personal responsibility? It is not Obamas Fault that you are LAZY. I got news for you There was 5 Million of us who got unemployed by Bush, but us 5 Million got off our A$$ and sent out resumes and when Obama turned things around and people started hiring again we got JOBS. So take your Anti- Obama krap and stuff it. YOU ARE JUST A TYPICAL LAZY REPUBLICON
DB Akron ... you may be here .. but you sound like FOX ...
About momentum ....
"After a decidedly stronger debate performance his second go around, President Barack Obama has neutralized Mitt Romney's momentum and now holds a 5 percent edge in Pennsylvania ahead of the candidates' third and final face-to-face meeting Monday night"
AND ... we know what happen "Monday Night" Romney got schooled ... plain and simple!
The Obama loves us all
Romney is full of so much BS..he changes his views on everything every time he visits a different town!
OBAMA 2012
Polish that turd Rombot!!!
IndependentinSD: Obama has not attended church in the 4 years that he has been POTUS and I believe, correctly, not once since he was forced to push Reverend Wright under the bus by adverse publicity.
Dude I am over qualified for most jobs being offered outside my field. Inside my field I am caught between age, under qualified, and over qualified. I can only get work if I don't put many of my qualifications on my resume.
I have to work as a consultant when I can get it or get my own projects. YOU CAN'T GET JOBS WHEN BANKS WON'T LOAN TO BUSINESSES BECAUSE OF FRANK-DODD.
While I am not consulting, I am working pro-bono for a number of charities and scrambling to pay bills with whatever I can get people I know to give me in work they need done and set up for my own business.
Once Obama is out, not only will I have a host of work to do, but so will the people I consult with. Once what I am working on hits, I will be hiring 1 or 2 people and renting office space. I just have to survive until the dictators are removed and their creepy legislation is repealed.
You are lying Gil. I happen to know that President Obama and his family attend services regularly. They are a Christian family and we need them in office the next four years to continue the recovery. President Obama is protecting Medicare and Social Security from the GOP agenda of Paul Ryan. The last thing we need are the lying republicans who have been against every single jobs bill that would have created more jobs. The GOP is full of people who are in the one percent and republicans who are pawns of the one percent whether they have that much sense or not.
I guess you sit next to Obama in the pew. Funny, no media publication agrees with you. Are you playing Clint Eastwood?
Further, you have no idea about Social Security or Medicare financing. You are just buying a bunch of s**t. Do you know where your "wage tax cut" came from? Look it up, that is if your so smart and really care.
25WalkerP: I suggest that you go to law school. Romney proposed a reorganization, not a liquidation as Obama repeatedly lies about. I am not going to give you a law School education in bankruptcy here.
I agree with Romney that a reorganization, backed with government guarantees if necessary was the way to go. Romney never advocated the liquidation of the auto industry. (An Obama out right lie) Obama is not a businessman, he at best is a community organizer.
Could Obama have saved the Olympics. He would be sitting around with his thumb up his A**. He knows nothing about how finance works other than soliciting contributions.
I hope that this has been a fair response.
Be very aware of the flip-flopping chameleon!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When he does this much on changing stances, just think of what he'll be like after an election. When the Gov. of MA, he was forced to go along with the legislature, because it was democratic controlled. He had no choice and he did not go to them to negotiate. Romney was born with a silver and a gold spoon in his mouth. He has no beginning understanding of the everyday workers. He won't take away the D.C. Lobbyists, but he will definitely take away the teacher's voice through the Union. He won't allow abortions; but he will allow Adkin (in MO) to legitimize rape and call a woman a "dog". What's wrong with this picture folks? Is this the new Rethuglican Philosophy??? Tune in next hour for Romney's newest flip-flop!!!
When a Nationally Televised Debate covers a serious topic such as: Foreign Affairs and Security, it is very UN-presidential like for a candidate to have a continual smirk on his face as Romney did during the entire 3rd. debate event. Also, in order to cut the deficit back, the defense spending needs to be cut way back (esp. on items that the military insist that they do not want) without starting 2 more wars that cannot be paid for by the U.S. Remember to connect the dots between Romney the business man and the mega profits Defense Contracts that Romney already has connections tied to just as it did with Dick Chaney with the Iraq War. Why else do you think he wants to expand the Military Force??? Be aware of the many colored chameleon, who has shown that he can change by the hour, or by the minute. The U.S. doesn't need a flip-flopping leader and they don't need a Gestapo either. We had that for 8 years under Bush. Also, take a much closer look at the people, who are serving on Romney/Ryan Staff. Do they look familiar? They should, because they served on Bush's staff as well. Yet, in this last debate the chameleon said that he was different from Bush, and was not going back to Bush policies. Well, history shows that those tax cuts that didn't work AND were approved of by Bush. If that isn't going back to Bush's policies, then I don't know what else to call it. And that's exactly what Mitt the Twit, Chameleon intends to do, in spite of his loud proclamation that he will not go back to any of the Bush policies. He'll extend this Republican Philosophy of more exemptions for the elite because they need the money while they take away your healthcare. Then, they'll use us to cover the lost revenue taxes that they don't pay by raising your taxes, the expanded military and possible wars, raise your taxes again to cover their loopholes, take away your SS , and lower the minimum wage salary. Ask Ryan about the salary wages? They wouldn't bring it up if they weren't serious about it. The companies need bigger profits. Do you think you can get by with even less income? If so, then he's your Hitler. Republicans have shown no ability to compromise or to negotiate for the past 12 years. Vote the Republicans out of office in 2012 until they learn that they serve all the Constituents, and not just the privileged elite. They have spent way too much time arguing like uncivilized schoolyard bullies with no respect or courtesy for a President when their leader is giving the State of Union Address, etc. Romney showed no respect for the president or the monitors during all 3 debates. Romney displayed no PR on his first, three stops in Europe this past summer. He's more interested in fancy, expensive, fund raising dinners than he is learning about the culture of the people whose country he visits, except to make insulting remarks to our foreign allied leaders. Looks like the almighty pastor didn't learn those PR manners in his private schools, or at home. And he calls himself a former pastor?!? I'd be willing to bet that his congregation was very small, if he behaved the same way with them. Because there is no humbleness or humility in his pastor like behavior when lying on a daily and hourly basis. His testosterone actions and comments rule his behavior versus self-control.
Who looked like they had 4 joints before the debate?
DB Akron,
What will you do when you finally realize that you are part of the 47% of the freeloaders that Mitt Romney was caught on tape saying he despises?
And Gil,
How come Romney just now remembered that he said he was suggesting a "reorganization" of the auto industry back in 2009?
LOL
Seems he would have brought that up earlier ... like sometime during the last four years.
All you libs can do is talk crap. You dont care if you are repeating lies, as long as they come out of Obama's mouth. Obama did exactly what Romney recommended, take GM through a structured bankruptcy. The only difference would have been that the taxpayers would have saved billions of dollars and half of the company would not be in Union hands. You people are mindless robots, repeating the drivel that comes from Obama and the liberal press, and never question validity.
@h engbers, the point is not about the intricate details of a structured bankruptcy or private vs. government financing. Most voters deal in sound bites and impressions, not fine print. The point is, voters in auto industry states like Michigan & Ohio were just reminded, during the debate, that Romney opposed the auto industry bailout and Obama made it happen. If Romney thought that somehow that was going to help him in those states, he was sadly mistaken.
1funnygirl
just like Romney's Bain "didn't touch" pensions of the GSI employees?
Many of the GSI employees’ benefits were eliminated, including long-term health-care coverage, life insurance and parts of pensions.
Bain purchased GSI, loaded it with heavy debt, paid themselves millions of dollars in dividends and fees, and left the carcass to file for bankruptcy while leaving its employees jobless and without health insurance and their pensions.
You are naive...
Romney made the mistake of opposing government's actions in saving auto industry. His plan relied on private financing after bankruptcy. His plan would have caused GM and Chrysler to shut down production which would have also severely damaged their parts suppliers costing a million more unemployed at a time that job losses in the rest of the economy were already at 800,000 per month.
Now, he tries to spin his way out of his ideological predisposition to rely on private sector solutions to huge problems in our economy.
Circuit City went into bankruptcy in 2008. No white knight came to the rescue. Private investors had suffered huge losses in stock market, real estate market, mortgage securities, and income from any companies they owned at this time.
The same backdrop applies to auto industry. No private equity firm was in a financial position to risk what scarce money they had left on GM or Chrysler. These companies would not have found a white knight to come to their rescue after emerging from bankruptcy with the accompanying (under Romney's plan) total shutdown of their manufacturing for the months it took to go through bankruptcy.
Romney's plan ignored this reality. Romney's proposed plan for saving the auto industry would have failed and a million jobs would have been lost in GM, Chrysler, and their supply chains. In fact, the likely failure of their parts suppliers would have jeopardized the US manufacturing of other car makers as well.
Romney failed at even coming up with a realistic plan to save the auto industry.
Obama saved the auto industry.
OBAMA 2012...for a better, fairer future for America
No Romney doesn't need to "soften" his stance. He needs to get the truth of it out, unfiltered by the Obama-supporting Media, and not twisted by the lies of the Democratic party. If it had been a legitimate bankruptcy, GM and the American people would be better off today.
The debates showed us just how much of Romney's real message had not been heard. I'm betting the Dems are glad there are no more debates, so they can go back to telling lies ad nauseum. Just like Obama did yesterday in Dayton.
PRober, you call the link drivel when it is in fact exhibit A on this very article we are discussing. I pulled the link write from the article. And yet here you are blubbering nonsense about something which you know nothing. At least have the intestinal fortitude to challenge yourself, your beliefs and RESEARCH THE TOPIC AT HAND.
I have spent far more time reading democratic material and watching more democrats than republicans. It is a rare day indeed that Fox News is on in my home. This I take as a responsibility of a concerned citizen. To challenge your beliefs.
Make no mistake. MSNBC is just as bad, if not worse, than Fox News. I have never seen a group accuse another of hatred with so much venom and a staggering amount of hatred in their own hearts.
"Romney has essentially tried to take credit for Obama’s actions..."
What else is new, lol???!!! He's been latching onto Obama's leg since this started.
DB Akron,
Dude have you lost your mind. You're out of work because the economy crashed. Why did it crash - because Bush and his Republican Congress created the conditions that would cause the economy to crash. The crash began in 2007 and by 2009 we were in a full fledged economic failure. Obama's policies didn't cause this and you're in the same boat I am in. The difference between you and is this, I found work...and it didn't really matter if I was underpaid, because I worked two jobs...period. Because I have a family to take care of. The economy is getting better and when it gets hot again and those jobs open up, employers will see that I made use of my time, worked two jobs and they'll know that I can deliver. I didn't bitch and moan about Obama - I just went to work so that I could remain support my family and competitive.
DB Akron: Romney retroactively resigned in 2002 back to 1999 which is a neat trick to continue to sign legal documents as the CEO and sole owner in 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002 then when actions during those years become embarrassing he simply walks backwards 3 years. I hope that makes more sense to you than it does to me.
As for his not so blind trust please explain how anyone that doesn't have cotton for brains would accept that a trust is truly blind when it's ran by his friend, personal attorney and man he appointed president of his Cayman's shell company. His employee runs his blind trust and you believe Romney when he say's he has no knowledge of how his money in that trust is spent and that the 10 million invested in his son Taggs business he didn't know about. Want to buy a bridge? I've got a good one.
Say Mike O'Brien - when in your article does it say how much money GM currently oes us, or when it will re-pay that amount?
Or say Mike - how about what is GM's stock price right now? OR how is the market looking today, after O's decisive victory last night?
Oh and when you talk about the auto bailout, what happened to Chrysler? Who own it right now? How about Ford? It took no money and yet seems to be doing well now.
And finally - who sells more cars, made in the US, in the US today?
SO to be clear - Toyota go no bailouts from us, correct?
Yep - another 'winning' argument for O.
Dude just cannot catch a break.
So, libbies, what else you got?
'softening' bailout stance??
.
more flip-flopping ... just to save his arse...???
.
Too late.
.
FORWARD....
Pigotry said,
FORWARD....
Might want to read this...
New Obama slogan has long ties to Marxism, socialism
By Victor Morton - The Washington Times
April 30, 2012,
The Obama campaign apparently didn't look backwards into history when selecting its new campaign slogan, "Forward" — a word with a long and rich association with European Marxism.
Many Communist and radical publications and entities throughout the 19th and 20th centuries had the name "Forward!" or its foreign cognates. Wikipedia has an entire section called "Forward (generic name of socialist publications)."
"The name Forward carries a special meaning in socialist political terminology. It has been frequently used as a name for socialist, communist and other left-wing newspapers and publications," the online encyclopedia explains.
The slogan "Forward!" reflected the conviction of European Marxists and radicals that their movements reflected the march of history, which would move forward past capitalism and into socialism and communism.
The Obama campaign released its new campaign slogan Monday in a 7-minute video. The title card has simply the word "Forward" with the "O" having the familiar Obama logo from 2008. It will be played at rallies this weekend that mark the Obama re-election campaign's official beginning.
There have been at least two radical-left publications named "Vorwaerts" (the German word for "Forward"). One was the daily newspaper of the Social Democratic Party of Germany whose writers included Friedrich Engels and Leon Trotsky. It still publishes as the organ of Germany's SDP, though that party has changed considerably since World War II. Another was the 1844 biweekly reader of the Communist League. Karl Marx, Engels and Mikhail Bakunin are among the names associated with that publication.
Pretty catchy phrase there, Pig... oh and you wear it well!!
It's time turn to the page on this failed presidency...
The middle class and your children/grandchildren can't afford 4 more!!
Pigotry said: 'softening' bailout stance?? more flip-flopping ... just to save his arse...???
.
Mitt...what has happened to your PRINCIPLES..if you ever have any/??
Spanky!
Last count, we got about a million jobs and an industry that is, again, on the grow. American auto manufacturers are hiring in a time when others aren't. Here in Ohio we've been able to reduce unemployment to as small business thrives selling goods and services to those many folks working in the auto industry.
You are one smug cookie, Spanky. You suggest that the market loss today has to do with the debate but in your ignorance you don't even recognise that you are arguing against yourself. You argue that Obama lost the debate and that is why the stocks are falling in price? If Obama's election hopes are dimmed (according to your logic) wouldn't that translate to a more robust market?
Spanky, you and your team is out of gas in a time when the Ohio autoworkers are putting their pedal to the metal, getting back in the game and standing behind the guy that stood beside them.
Spanky....the only things the libs have now is 14 days.....and Obama dropping in the polls....not an enviable position to be in.......especially when you are the incumbent! The hand writing is on the wall (and in the polls) and they are getting loquaciously nervous..........
ROMNEY/RYAN.....2012>>>2020
So they could all see for themselves that Romney told the truth and Obama lied.
Automakers' Report Card: Who Still Owes Taxpayers Money? The Answer Might Surprise You
24 comments, 7 called-out
+ Comment now
PAGE 2 OF 2
GM: repaid $23.1 billion of the $49.5 billion it got from the U.S. Treasury, including all of its outstanding loans. But Treasury still owns 500 million shares, or 32%, of GM stock. To recoup its full investment, GM stock needs to hit $52.80 per share. It’s currently trading around $21. GM also received a $106 million matching grant to build a battery factory in Brownstown, MI, where it is assembling battery packs for the Chevrolet Volt plug-in car using cells imported from Korea.
Chrysler: repaid $9.2 billion, fulfilling its debt obligations to the U.S. and Canadian governments, and is now owned by Italian automaker Fiat (58.5%) and a health care trust for UAW retirees (41.5%). Overall, taxpayers lost $1.3 billion on the Chrysler bailout. In full recovery mode, Chrysler is currently the fastest-growing carmaker in the world.
Ford: used its $5.9 billion loan to convert two truck plants to small-car production and to develop more fuel-efficient vehicles like the Ford Focus EV and C-Max Energi plug-in hybrid, on sale this fall. Loan repayments start in September. Ford says it will spend $14 billion over the next seven years on advanced-technology vehicles.
Leadership, Not Another Bailout, Will Fix GM (And No, It Is Not Going Bankrupt)Joann MullerForbes Staff
Why Are U.S. Taxpayers Still Footing The Bill To Fix A German Automaker?Joann MullerForbes Staff
Ford Is Worried, As It Should BeJoann MullerForbes Staff
Chrysler Is Winning Once Again With Grit, Savvy And CharismaDale BussContributor
Nissan: received a $1.4 billion loan to build a battery plant and modify an existing car factory in Tennessee to produce the electric Nissan Leaf (currently imported from Japan). Production of battery packs begins at the end of September; Leaf production follows in December. Though it has sold only 14,000 Leafs in the U.S. since December 2010, the company hasn’t backed off its U.S. sales target of 150,000 Leafs per year. A spokesman says Nissan will start repaying its loan after U.S. production begins.
Tesla: used its $465 million loan to build a battery plant and retool part of a former Toyota-GM factory to build the Model S, its second electric car. So far, only 100 of the cars have been built, well shy of its 2012 goal of 5,000. But the company says it’s on track. Loan repayments start in December. Tesla, which went public in July 2010, hopes to break even by 2013.
Fisker: received only $193 million of its $529 million DOE loan because of missed milestones. Its first plug-in hybrid, the $100,000 Karma built in Finland, suffered quality problems. Its next model, the Nina, and a new factory in Delaware, are on hold while the company sorts out its problems and seeks alternative funding sources.
Vehicle Production Group: used a $50 million DOE loan to add a compressed natural gas version of its MV-1 handicapped accessible van. So far, 300 of the 2,100 vans produced at a plant in Indiana run on CNG. As fleet sales rise, the start-up company expects at least half to be natural gas vehicles. VPG began repaying its loan late last year.
Johnson Controls: the leading lead-acid battery maker for autos used a $300 million DOE grant to build an advanced-battery cell plant in Michigan, and is shifting work here from Europe. It predicted slow acceptance of EVs, and is instead supplying batteries for other fuel-saving technologies, like microhybrids, which shut down when the vehicle stops. The plan was for 680 jobs at full capacity. Today, it has fewer than 100.
A123 Systems: drew $129 million of a $249 million DOE grant to build two battery plants in Michigan. But demand didn’t materialize, resulting in unused capacity. Meanwhile, A123 is replacing early batteries that had quality issues. Its resulting financial distress attracted China’s Wangxiang Group, which agreed to invest up to $450 million for an 80 percent stake in the company. A123, which employs 1200 people in the U.S., says it will continue to manufacture batteries in America, focusing on other markets like grid storage and hybrid buses and trucks.
Dow Kokam: the joint venture between Dow Chemical, a Korean battery maker and a French engineering company used its $161 million DOE grant to build an advanced-battery factory in Michigan. It started production in June, with 120 employees. With EV demand slower than expected, it is targeting other customers like delivery fleets, the Defense Department and tug boat operators.
LG Power: U.S. subsidiary of Korean battery maker used its $151 million DOE grant to build a battery plant in Michigan to supply cells for the Chevrolet Volt and others. But with demand lower than expected, the plant, which has 200 employees, hasn’t yet started production.
EnerDel: drew $55 million of its $118 million DOE grant to expand battery production in Indiana. An investment in Think, a Norwegian EV customer, turned sour, and EnerDel’s publicly traded parent, Ener1, filed for bankruptcy in January. Co-founder Boris Zingarevich, a Russian timber tycoon with ties to the Russian government, took control by investing another $86 million. That set off alarm bells in Washington because EnerDel’s batteries are used in some military applications. After exiting bankruptcy in March, EnerDel installed new management and moved its headquarters to Indiana. It currently supplies battery packs for the Volvo C30 electric car but is shifting its focus to making batteries for mass transit, grid storage and industrial uses.
Romney wanted GM and Chrysler to go bankrupt so his "blind-trust" private equity firms who are setting on billions, and could quickly raise much more, could buy-in and run the bailout. The difference? Then they would look like the dozens of tier 1 and tier 2 automotive suppliers that Romney and his gan currently hold where management pay is below par but marginally attractive, and hourly pay is in the $8 -$9 range.
They could have easily generated the cash to rescue the automakers, and would have pilliaged anything left and then mortgaged future profits for as far as anyone can see - then walked away with his pockets (and Caymen Island accounts) stuffed! All at shareholder and employee expense.
If everyone in the lower 50% wealth/income bracket could comprehend the tactics used by Bain Capital, and the devious schemes Mitt Romney developed to do the same with some many other companies they would see that if elected, he would do the same for this country - he would sell out our future for simple short term gain, and like the majority of the broken companies he has left behind we would suffer for decades.
Retirement worries on the rise in Ohio if Romney gets Elected !!!!!!!!!
Ford did not need a bailout because they were in a much better situation capital-wise (not necessarily revenue-wise or profit-wise). They had enough cash on hand to weather the downturn. Why? Because just before the economy crashed, Ford had essentially mortgaged the entire company, taking out a massive secured line of credit by putting all of their assets up as collateral. It is unlikely any of the big three could have gotten such a loan during the recession when they needed it, which is why they came to Washington to beg for a bailout.
Chrysler was essentially handed over to Fiat. What people forget is that the only reason Fiat had enough cash to absorb Chrysler was that they had just received a massive cash infusion...from GM. You see, GM had been in a partnership with Fiat going back years. Part of that partnership was a clause Fiat could have invoked to force GM to purchase Fiat. Both parties knew GM did not have enough capital to finance that purchase, so Fiat exploited it to get GM to pay them handsomely to buy out the option. Obviously a mistake on the part of "old-GM" to ever make such a deal in the first place, but hardly a case of abundant investment capital in the marketplace.
And let's not forget that a capital investment company was actually involved in the situation before the crisis. Cerberus capital had acquired Chrysler from Daimler and then purchased half of GMAC (GM's finance arm), merging it with Chrysler Finance. These are the kinds of guys Mitt Romney wanted to manage the auto companies and turn them around. They tried. It didn't work.
ALERT!!!!!! HUGE NEWS!!!!!
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA IS A MUSLIM!
If you all Dems and Rep watched the documentary Obama 2016
YOU WOULD NEVER EVER VOTE FOR HIM GUARANTEED!!! Do not vote until you watch it.......
Romney promises to be tough on China...he will outsource American jobs faster to them than they can handle!!!!
Looks like most of the stink-tards are present today.. Always good to smell Feisty!!! Hope she's cooking up a huge plate of crow to eat on election day!!!LMAO
It's a very winning argument. No matter how Romney paints it the hundreds of thousands of votes from auto workers, parts suppliers and others tied to the auto makers aren't going to Romney just because he softens his stance. He still called on a bankruptcy plan that would have destroyed workers rights and pensions. You think they won't notice? It's been a long time since anyone's won without winning Ohio. Nov. 6th won't be any different.
Obama is Done!
Romney...52% Obama...45%
America has Obama's number...it turned out to be wrong!
Romney/Ryan 2012! Vote against Obama like your life depends on it!
chris-205..... Your complete igorance is only overshadowed by your eagerness to show it!
Obama/Biden 2012
If you people held your king Obama only to half of the same standards that you held George Bush to you would not be voting for him.
And calling a good man a liar dose not help.
Romney 2012
Why arn't George Bush, Dick Cheney, and Don Rumsfeld out helping Romney/Ryan get elected? After all, Romney/Ryan have most of their old staff helping them now.
Obama/Biden 2012
Chris 205, not sure if you are serious or just being funny - you didn't think Star Wars was a reality based movie did you?
HEY JOE.... how'd your brother land that contract in Afghanistan? Rumor has it you helped... any truth to that, Joe?
Wouldn't that be just a little ILLEGAL Joe? Or maybe you skipped that day in school...........
And what did Barry know about this contract... and when?
TO: Rgray1965 who wrote:
How about calling a "liar" what they are, "a liar".
George "Curveball" Bush lied us into war, that's a true fact.
Mitt Romney shapes his opinion depending on who he's talking to, which is also a true fact.
The only trouble with Republican Voters is they live somewhere in between the State of Denial, and the State of Amnesia.
Obama/Biden 2012
Spanky, you are as dumb as a rock (Romney)! Toyota did not need a bailout, due to the fact that they have NO RETIREES AT ALL! They dumped on their own citizens in Japan, to defer any overhead costs for pensions and medical costs for retirees in their own country! Thirty years free-wheeling! Besides, they received the government given favor of the "Cash for Clunkers" program when GM and Chrysler were DENIED the opportunity to build autos due to the "Bankruptcy Processing"! Besides, if GM/Chrysler had went belly up it would of taken FORD, Toyota, Honda, Mercedez-Benz, BMW, everybody else that has sub-contracting suppliers of parts, tires, plastics, electronics, machine tools, truck drivers, railroads, housing, farmers, EVERYBODY IN THE MIDWEST! President Obama's administration saved our country from the biggest failure ever imaginable. Since those companies are multi-national, it would have affected the entire GLOBE! Imagine a WORLD-WIDE DEPRESSION! That is what was at stake...
In addition to that, Obama got snookered by the Congress and acquiesced to continuing the "Bush Tax Cuts" (Rich Robber Baron 1%'rs is a better discription), which resulted/continued in a pump to the pockets of the rich for that trickle-down promise... NOT, NOT, NOT! Did not happen, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice?, No more Mr. NiceGuy!"
My Thanks to Vincent Furnier for that reference...
King K
Ford did not take any TARP money. The 5.9 Billion was an unrelated program from previous legislation meant to encourage the development of greater fuel efficiency. GM & Chrysler I believe took these too.
Campdog, Obama didn't rescue your Auto industry. He just waisted billions of your tax dollars to get the unions part ownership of GM. Unless you are a union worker at GM, you should be outraged. GM went through bankruptcy just as Romney suggested, there is no way Obama could have avoided it. The thing you dont realize is how many jobs were lost by Car Dealerships that were forced to close, as part of the Obama bailout deal, and supporting parts companies that lost their businesses. If Obama had not gotten involved, these jobs would not have been lost,and the outcome would have been identical.
@ campdog, re your reponse to spanky. As one of those Ohio small businesses who USED to sell parts to the Auto Industry, you are talking crap. We lost all those jobs years ago when the parts were sent to China so the Union could have more money. We've not gotten them back. The job gains in Ohio have been from actions taken by our REPUBLICAN governor, not Obama. Look up the growth curve, nothing was happening before Kasich.
What does that mean?
Is there a form of intellectual "Ducolax"?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody can get American industry humming again!
And that is precisely who you are not voting for. :-) ... the humming was shipped overseas by both parties ... but then Canada rocks ... you know you are more than welcome up here (Canada has a history of not turning down Yanks) and there is a great comedy fest up in Mtl.
BCWC-
As one of the hated 1%, I must admit that I have a summer place overlooking the LIONS in Vancouver...Montreal is nice in the summer, all 5 weeks!...
Montreal is nice in the summer, all 5 weeks!...
So true ... we have two seasons, winter and July.
Saskatchewan can see snow in September...
I was "Canadian": when I traveled outside the USA during the G W Bush era, and if you've ever engaged a London cabbie in conversation, you know why...
dangerfield
Saskatchewan is so flat it can see the rest of Canada 12 months a year.
Ahhh...But can it see RUSSIA?
(on a tee, so I couldn't resist!)
blackcatwhitecat - I LOVE Montreal and Quebec! Was in your beautiful country about 10 years ago and visited the East Coast. I really want to get back and visit Whistler during ski season! It looks gorgeous!
Obama/Biden 2012
I remember ... arrg why do I? ... Johnny Carson singing Rhinestone Cowboy and Bob Hope opining that he did not know that Arkansas was that flat.
SeekingSanityblackcatwhitecat - I LOVE Montreal and Quebec! Was in your beautiful country ...
My beautiful country is actually Sussex, England, and I am getting a yearning for it.
TO: Spanky-who wrote:
Enough votes to win the election.
Obama/Biden 2012!
MYTH you can say whatever you want. But the people who work at GM have something to say to you. You Go bankrupt!!!!
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/511468/thumbs/r-UAW-ROMNEY-PROTEST-large570.jpg
4 more 4 the "SecongComing of 44
Obama/Biden 2012
Gosh Bev, I wondered where you get your dribble from, now I know. The Huffington Post. Such a challenging and enlightening site.
You should save the energy you devote to your useless chatter, and go volunteer for something worth while.
Perhaps the Polish Princess can channel you in the right direction.
TO: 1funnygirl who wrote:
You ought to take your hate speech over to Faux Noise, cause you're not offering any substantive here.
Obama/Biden 2012
American Girl - don't bother. Notsofunnygirl gets her blather from FOX and the Tea Party brochures! Pay no attention. She only posts her ignorance for all to see!
Obama/Biden 2012
Obama/Biden for civil rights 2012
It's quite evident that "it" gets its daily dose of lies from FOX and the tea party mailers. "It" really only ever posts one liners that are completely worthless, and many times moronic, not to mention ignorant of the facts. Come on, "it" say something.
@ American Girl, Seeking Sanity, and Alaska Girl, What???????
I disagree with you and Bev and the Polish Princess, so immediately I am corrupted by Fox? That the best you've got?
Amazing how someone can develop their own views, and if they differ from the three stooges, then they are from Fox Noise.
Fox Noise, can you dummies even call the number one news channel by their right name? No, just use your childish comments and laugh at each other.
That's what makes you libbies such an interesting group. No one, but liberals, have the correct answer for everything.
Spin it however you chose to, Obama will be returning home in January.
What? What was that? I can't see what you wrote! Oh, that's right! I put you on ignore! Funny that you took the baiting! Typical. Buh-bye!
AlaskaGirl,
hey! makes two of us then. I can't stomach any more parroting the lies and deceptions of Faux News spews by someone who calls themself "Funnygirl" when all she really is, is ugly and pathetic
@1dumbgirl- If Romney /Ryan win, kiss your right to an abortion goodbye. Kiss your healthcare goodbye, and say goodbye to all the world-wide respect we earned the last 4 years after the Bush disaster that Romney wants to repeat. You'll probably need Ryan's approval for any reproductive medical procedures because his Catholic faith dictates his policies.
Fortunately Obama will be returning to home..............at the White House!
Hey funny....did you know that when you do search on....Fox news dumber...you see actual studies that show people are dumber after watching it?....Yep....just do search on.......Fox news Dumber........lies, bad info, mistakes.....yeah....makes a person dumber after they watch it!
What to say? Alaska Girl has me on ignore, but she says I took her bait. Really? If I am on ignore, why are you responding? Silly girl.
PRober? What another penis person from the liberal side? I'm a Faux news person? Get a life while resorting to reading those Polish Princess talking points. Try to use your brain and focus on truth from fiction.
CasualUSTaxpayer, WHAT? I can keep my healthcare, unlike what you would receive under the ObamaCare plan. Try reading the details, that is if they have finalized them. My understanding is they are still writing and revising them. Abortion rights? WHAT? Ryan may be Catholic while Romney is Morman, but the Congress will address the issue and the Executive branch can either sign or veto the legislation that can be overturned.
Now what respect do you believe you have under Obama? Nothing there but words without substance.
Keep believing the liberal left positions while ignoring fact.
Funky(not once funny)Girl,
I realize you've had more than your fair share of penises; however mine is not remotely interested in you. Honestly, I can't get past the ugliness and stench.
1funnygirl,
Please feel free to check your "facts" on PPACA at http://www.healthcare.gov/law/features/rights/sbc/index.html
You can also access the full text of the law from that site.
With respect to your incorrect statement on not being able to keep your current healthcare:
"Q: How will the regulation help me keep my coverage if I don’t want to choose a new private plan?
A: The regulation lets health plans that existed on March 23, 2010, when the Affordable Care Act became a law, to be “grandfathered” and thus be exempt from some of the new law’s provisions."
(source: http://www.healthreform.gov/about/grandfathering.html )
Might be worthwhile to factcheck before automatically believing what right-wing pundits tell you.
Just wait until Obama-care hits the 47% becomes the 57% and so on,I don't have to watch fox I own my company and I know hundreds of business men that all agree with this.
If you believe Europe is the economy we should copy vote for Obama. If you do not believe Europe is the economy we should copy vote for Romney. It is as simple as that. Europe is a complete socialist failure. America was not a failure until we started moving more toward a European style government and economy. How people can not see that Europe is failing due to its huge entitlement programs that are not sustainable is amazing. We should be going the opposite way of Europe, yet we have a President who thinks we should copy their every move.
Matthew, I suggest you read that again, as well as the new para that will change when fully implemented.
The administration is rewriting everything as we speak.
If obama is re-elected, you will be shocked at what you will receive/not receive and how you will change your doctor to a government approved one.
There is the Obama word today, and the implementation tomorrow.
1funnygirl, PPACA has been passed. Changing a law requires Congressional interaction. And while there are parts of PPACA that can use tweaking, even that requires Congress.
If Gov. Romney is elected, he cannot automatically (Day 1) "repeal Obamacare" and frankly I don't think that will happen (it CAN'T as long as one house is controlled by the Democrats). But for grins let's say he can and he does, then what happens?
1) Millions of people are now not covered by a plan agreed to by the hospitals and the AMA. This means they now go to the ER for care instead of primary care physician. Costs skyrocket well beyond what PPACA may do. Health insurance costs skyrocket OR the taxpayer takes it on the chin OR people are kicked to the curb to die.
2) The cost constraints agreed to by the hospitals and the AMA go away. Deregulation allows costs to go up and services to decline even for those of us with insurance.
3) Since (per the CBO) the PPACA helps to reduce the deficit, naturally the repeal of it will inversely affect it. The deficit will rise.
4) Since there is NOTHING in place to take the place of PPACA, the disassembly of the program will cost money. More cost passed onto those of us with health care or the taxpayer.
5) People with pre-existing conditions will lose the "big box economics" associated with being grouped with large numbers of healthy people and, where available, the insurance cost will be impossible for some to obtain and maintain.
6) Heath care costs for the elderly will dramatically increase. Especially when combined with the voucher program. The only one left in medicare will be those that cannot get health insurance elsewhere. They will be the most costly patients and that cost will be passed onto the American taxpayer.
I could go on, but hopefully you get the point.
Prober, go clean yourself. Aren't you the one "reporting" people for their posts you don't like? And you include "penises"? Your a typical f-ing democrat pointing the finger at everyone but yourself! A dumpster is a great place for you.
starsailing, here's an idea....why dont you actually READ the report. You might find it interesting what is said about MSNBC readers.
tothetop, I realize you are literacy challenged and probably have your teenage son/daughter do your reading/typing for you; however... skanky "funnygirl" is the one who used the word "penis" in a previous rant... I just responded accordingly
How come Mitt states he will balance the budget in 8 years, yet President Obama was only supposed to do it in like 6 months?
People want to know.
If people in Ohio believe that Mitt will stand by them, now that there's an election, and he has no choice - then what can I say?
There isn't much out there left that Mitt hasn't walked back.
I can't think of a single thing that he's been correct on. He's a terrible terrible candidate. And the reason for that is because he hasn't given anything much thought. His #1 priority has always been tax cuts for the rich.
He wants democracy in the Middle East, yet here in America we will have the UN overseeing our elections. Because of Mitt's party.
Just sad and pathetic how little that party cares about this country and our democracy.
All is well now Pat - O just released his "plan."
Too bad even CNN panned it as more of the same, now in pretty booklet form.
So there is that.
But please keep asking for specifics. Every time you do, it makes people ask, 'Yeah, and what are O's/?'
Golly Pat - it sure was easier for poor O when all he had to do was talk about Hope and Change.
Mitt's party? I am sure you have a link to provide the actual quotes that this is all due to the GOP.
Nobody says he has to balance it in 6 months or even 4 years. It's the fact it has not decreased from 2009 when we had a $800B stimulus that is the problem. The trend is not down, and with more baby-boomers retiring into SS and Medicare the prospects of "cutting it in half by the end of my first term", are becoming increasingly remote.
Can we assume then there will be no whining about a stolen election?
The recession was MUCH worse than even economists predicted at that time. When the stimulus was passed, they thought the economy had contracted by 4%. Instead, we now know it contracted by 9%--very much in Great Depression Territory.
The Stimulus needed to be twice as big for all that was predicted to happen.
Nonetheless, does anyone really believe that adding $1 trillion to the US economy did nothing? Who's THAT stupid?
Spanky-
I guess he just found the BINDER it was stored in.
Pat,
Educate yourself becase posts like this make you look rather dumb. Do you understand the difference between a budget and a deficit. A Budget is produced yearly. There are checks in place quarterly for progress and then afte the year is over, you either hit your yearly budget, you spent less or you spent more. In Obama's case, he has spent more for 3 years running and is target for year number 4 of over spending.
So none expected President to balance his budget 5 months into his presidency, but we did expect him to balance each year at year end. He has not. As a result, he is banckrupting the country.
You know, I couldn't agree more, the GOP is pathetic. They are a sorry excuse for a political party. But keep in mind that they have been influenced by the Norquists, the Linbaughs, Koch brothers, and the flagering TeaParty. It's a fractured party that went wrecklessly wrong. And this all started with Bush and Cheney, the 2 know-it-alls of the GOP at that time. These 2 skull heads screwed their party up and I can't be ever pleased enough.
Bart, while the Federal Government is a complex entity, Obama had from the day after the election through his swearing in and beyond to figure out how bad the economy was. He failed! Let's move on.
Next new name for him:
FLIP ROMNEY
Pat, Your comments are excellent and well written. You and feisty should join the morning crowd.The RepubiCons are out in full force then. They need someone to hit them over the head with the truth. Feisty gets a little carried away but her hearts is in the right place, she is a good soldier. Hope to hear from you both in the morning.
S. Williams
more like "Myth Romney"... the flip flops just indicate what a compulsive liar he is
ALERT!!!!!! HUGE NEWS!!!!!
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA IS A MUSLIM!
If you all Dems and Rep watched the documentary Obama 2016
YOU WOULD NEVER EVER VOTE FOR HIM GUARANTEED!!! Do not vote until you watch it.......
Thank you for the kinds words OldTimer!
I must confess I do get carried away at times, I no longer have the patience to deal with the idiots like I did 4 years ago!
PS: I am here every morning commenting under; "First Thoughts" keeping the right wingers on their toes! ;o)
TO: chris-2051162 who wrote:
Carnival barker.
Obama/Biden 2012
Feisty - I haven't been around lately but I'm glad to see you still carrying on the fight. I am too weary of the blindness and stupidity of the Right. They believe anything Romney says even if it is the opposite of what he said yesterday. Last night was surreal - Romeny is a shape-shifting idiot who would say anything, be anything, or do anything to be President. His sick little sycophant smile is beyond annoying. Can't wait for this to end and life to go on as before - with a President named Obama.
Gene,
You do realize each budget year under Obama was less than the year before? And all three years individually were less than the last year of Bushes budget. So what exactly were you expecting, a balanced budget that hasn't been balanced since 2001? Just curious.
What gets me is that Obama did extremely well last night, yet all we hear is how wonderful Corporate Raider Lying Tax Cheat Willard Romney is and how close Ohio is (its not Obama has a huge lead there but you would never know by watching Corporate News Network or Comcast-NBC) and how Obama is loosing.
Really?
Yet in exit polls from early Voting, President Obama is leading by a very huge distance.
Gallup apparently changed the way they do Polls so now Corporate Raider Romney is far head (Gallup is the only one that has Romney ahead by more than 1 point (They say 6 ) all other pollsters who are conservative have Romney ahead at 2)
I have a feeling that the Media will win this. And that is what makes this sad indeed. Why in the world does the Media hate Obama so?
Please go vote. Ignore Wolf Blitzer, and CNN... Ignore NBC
And thats my opinion.
are you high?
If Barry goes after the US debt the same way he has the White House budget..... we should be out of debt by the year 2132.....
Takes a long time to pay off your debt with a 1% saving........
Keeping the right winers on their toes? HAHAHAHAHA, now that's not true. If anything, your comments bring on a rash of giggles!
Do keep up with your and your liberal friends posts. Too much to believe, but funny to read.
Why are you even here? We have a great President who has fought for the middle class. He has provided two tax cuts to the middle class. The first one was with the Recovery Act and then more recently he was able to get Congress to agree to another middle class tax cut. Republicans were shamed into doing it. Republicans are lying about Medicare to senior citizens in Florida. It is Paul Ryan who wants to voucherize Medicare and privatize Social Security. These two republicans are horrible for the country. Romney is the main investor in companies that are moving to China right now. Sensata is the lastest victim of Romney's greed.
Blatina here.
Listen, Libya has already cast enough doubt on the President and his Administration. Now you want to add the GM bailout to the mixed. Be careful what you ask for. You will find out when you fact check that must give this one to Romney also.
Concerned Citizen - spell check? Grammar check?
Man, you know it's getting bad when Romney can say let Detroit go bankrupt and yet people think he meant something totally opposite. Hyperpartisanship is just as bad on either side of the aisle. You're letting your hate for Obama cloud your good judgement.
charemor, your asking to much.
charemor - Substance to your posts?
charemor
My apologies, my post went out before I could edit. By the way did you get the meaning anyway? As you can see I don't do this for a living.
Chris @SLC
lol
Concerned Citizen--Libya only showed that the GOP will use anything for politics. Once the election is over, Libya will never be mentioned again.
TO: Concern Citizen-856329 who wrote:
Wrong.
If it was done Mitt Robme's way, people would have lost their jobs AND their retirement pensions. If you read the text Romney himself wrote, he wanted to dissolve those car companies (lay off the workers and keep their retirement pension money) like he's done every time in the past with other companies, and then claim he would have started new car companies with fewer workers, lower pay, and no employee retirement pensions.
But we already know from Romney's record that he would NOT have started new auto companies at all, he would have shipped those American Jobs Overseas.
President Obama's Plan allowed Auto Workers to keep BOTH their jobs AND their retirement pensions.
Obama/Biden 2012
Hi Clara, what does the circle between the two sticks mean? Is that your as@#$%^ between your xxxx?
Chris - is that a picture of yourself. Did any one tell you you look like Bush.
I see where you both get it from. You are just as annoying and self center as our President. What are you going to do when he is fired in November?
American Girl, thousands of GM workers still lost their jobs and 20,000 non-union employees lost their pension. What world do you live in?
Thanks mhrjhn, I have been having problems all day with my computer.
American Girl this one is for you.
General Motors (GM) will temporarily lay off 1,300 workers for five weeks at one of its Detroit plants.
The car maker confirmed to FOX Business Network that the layoffs will run from March 19 to April 23 and will coincide with halts in the production of GM’s Chevrolet Volt and the Opel Ampera.
Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2012/03/02/gm-to-temporarily-lay-off-1300/#ixzz2A9s37jvT
Say What?
From the article above:
Let me get this straight.
President Obama DID get GM and Chrysler back on track, so the Governor is trying to make the case that he would have done the same thing if he were President?
Kind of like how the Governor said last night how his Foreign Policy would be just like President Obama's
Nice Straw-man argument, Governor.
The good people of Ohio have had enought of your lies, Governor.
President Obama will win Ohio in a cakewalk.
Why doesn't the Governor try and win electoral votes from one of the states he lived in like Michigan? or Massachusettes? or California?
Oh that's right.
He's going to lose them too.
Salud
When Romney tried to raise the Libya issue in the second debate he got his Mormonic butt handed to him on one of Joseph Smith's golden plates. Then last night Romney came out agreeing on virtually every foreign policy position that the President has taken - in a complete reversal of his previous positions. The final straw is Romney trying to convince Ohioans that he was actually for the auto bail-out by saying it should go bankrupt, letting the pink unicorn of private equity, backed-up by the fed, to save it - without having to cover Grampa's pension for being a loyal GM employee for 30 years. Sorry, the only ones I know of stupid enough to fall for that kind of verbal ju-jitsu are the same ones who, in 2009, were running around with their misspelled protest signs, tea bags dangling from their heads, and their morbidly obese pot-bellies stuffed into a "Don't Tread On Me," tee shirt.
OMG! Your last sentence with the descriptive of those crazy people nearly had me falling off my chair! Too funny! Tea bangers are great for a laugh! Embrace them, Republicans, because that is your party now, like it or not.
Diane-I especially like their little three-pointed hats, they are just soooo cute!. I remember when we used to wear them too (in the 3rd grade), but we looked almost as stupid then as the TP'ers do now. And don't even get me started about that mean, nasty old "Don't pee on me snake" tee shirts, stretched beyond belief!
$16 TRILLION dollar debt, 8% unemployment, taxes on their way UP, UP & UP, an ever-changing foreign policy, racism, elitism, socialism, and flat-out THEFT of taxpayer funds..... Barry deserves the chair (not the empty one).............
Basically, the whole semantical argument boils down to this sentence:
Romney is sort of trying to thread the needle that advocating for another round of federally backed consumer protections was tantamount to him arguing for Federal guarantees for the auto industry. The president was essentially correct in his interpretation of Romney's intent during the Op Ed. Romney was very much against the idea of the federal government becoming involved in the nuts and bolts of saving the industry and was certainly against the notion of the Federal government essentially buying up huge portions of the companies.
So then the issue becomes whether or not in the environment of 2009 whether private sector capital existed to save these industries or whether hundreds of thousands of Michigans, Ohioans, Indianans, etc, would have seen their entires lives go into the toilet. If I recall the sentiment on these boards at the time, the right wing commentariat was certainly not sympathetic to the realities faced by the 'union thugs' of the rust belt.
It is sort of a bitter irony, is it not, my right wing friends, that this election and the next four year basically boils down to a decision that all you almost universally derided and states that all of you basically wrote off?
Sometimes it's not best to root against America, even if it might not be in your political party's best interest.
Perhaps Romney was bitter because Bain had the capital buy low and dismantle hi?
At any rate, it is clear for all to see that he intended to Chapter 7 on the pension obligations and restructure at the expense of the Labor side of the equation, not the MANAGEMENT side.
That's just part of what makes him a Corporatistic @!$%#.
GM's future is still uncertain. I don't think it is time for a victory lap yet. Last I checked, they still owe us, the American taxpayers, much money and their stocks are selling low.
Clara KCMO
Explain your statement of how Bain could buy low and sell for a profit. No where in any business does that work. You and the liberals keep believing that B/S and you show your stupidity. If you buy a bankrupt company you better have plans to invest a boat load of money, because when a company goes bankrupt it's assets are sold to pay the creditors. So they would be buying a bunch of buildings that could be used for 1 purpose to build cars. The Ford plt in Mahwah NJ sat for years when it closed. Until Sharp came along and bulldozed it down and built another plant. Same thing in Edison NJ. How fast is property selling today?
Why don't you read this so that you have a better understanding, as the rest of us already have, as to what exactly it is that Romney does and how he operated Bain.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-20120829
I know I should hate Romney for his low taxes on investment income even though he paid a much higher tax on that same money originally when he earned it outside of investment income. I know I should hate Romney when he paid $6.2 million to the taxman and donated $7 million to charity, including $4.1 million to his church. Man, he is evil for donating 16% of his income to charity! If a liberal gave that much to charity it would be on every news cast and he would have a half hour infomercial documenting each and every wonderful charity act.
I know I should love the Obamas for donating $240,000 to charity, about 5.7 percent of their income. Every news cast loves to tout how generous they are and loves to do segments on their gift giving. The Bidens gave an average of $369 to charity a year for the decade before he moved to the Naval Observatory - about 0.3 percent of their income. Back in 1997, then VP Al Gore and his then wife Tipper gave $353. Since becoming VP, Biden hasn't become much more generous. In 2010, he gave $5,350, about 1.4 percent of income. That same year, Romney gave $3 million. The national average is about 3%. Yeah, I should probably trust the rhetoric from the left when they speak a huge game but are pitiful when it comes to donating their own money to charity. It is easy to give other peoples money away. A good human being gives their own hard earned money to charity.
I wonder if the folks in Ohio know about Romney profiting $115 million off of taxpayer auto bailout money ( and then shipping every single job to China).
What a dick.
ALERT!!!!!! HUGE NEWS!!!!!
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA IS A MUSLIM!
If you all Dems and Rep watched the documentary Obama 2016
YOU WOULD NEVER EVER VOTE FOR HIM GUARANTEED!!! Do not vote until you watch it.......
gry.... should be gay..
TO: chris-2051162 who wrote:
Carnival barker.
Obama/Biden 2012
American Girl - chris and LeadForward are shining examples of the debauchery and filth of the far right! I believe you've insulted Carnival Barkers everywhere!
Obama/Biden 2012
TO: 1funnygirl who wrote:
No one is calling Mitt Robme a "venture" capitalist; he's a "VULTURE" capitalist and he was NOT in it to "rebuild a failing organizations". Mitt tried that but there wasn't as much money in "rebuilding" as there was in "liquidating".
Mitt couldn't even get a 2nd term as Governor.
Mitt has a record and here's where you can find it on a 30 minute video:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/01/12/anti-romney_movie_by_pro-gingrich_pac_when_mitt_romney_came_to_town.html
Enjoy watching.
Obama/Biden 2012
And to Seeking Sanity, LOL!!! Good one!
Obamacare is leading to more part-time jobs. This policy that was jammed down our throats really forces the job creators to hire part time workers. Your company does not get taxed for part-time workers. A nation of part-time workers is not what we need. Every person that is working a job that is not essential should be worried about being moved to a part-time worker due to Obamacare. If you are not worried you are simply not informed. If you vote for Obama and you get laid off or moved to part-time you have nobody to blame buy yourself. Every business has to play by the rules of the game. The rules of the game now just forced every business to consider hiring part-time workers rather than full-time workers.
Under Obamacare for a family of four (50 yearold) making $93,700, if you get a raise of 1% to $93,934 ($234) you actually just got a pay decrease of $7,723 due to Obamacare. Please employer, don't give me a raise! Did you ever think you would ask that in America!?
Democrats have controlled congress since 2006. Congress has much more power than 1 singe President. This economic downturn can not be blamed on Bush as he could not do anything the last two years of his presidency.
Companies don't get taxed for part-time workers? Where are you getting this information? Wow, your rant is straight out of a FOX Entertainment segment. Wow. Just wow.
oh yeah- read about it here. www.gregpalast.com/romneys-auto-bailout-profiteeringpalast-on-democracy-now/
You consider a blog as a valid 'source'?
Come on! I know liberals have been brainwashed and think that you are so-o-o 'intelligent', so you believe the tripe, but do you expect anybody to believe your lies?
By the way, you do know, don't you, what a 'blind trust' is?
gry
Why don't you Google the CEO of GM talking about shipping jobs to China. The CEO that Obama put in that is. How about Obama shipping jobs overseas with the Tesla? Don't they count that was done with taxpayer money.
Obama has sent more jobs to China than Romney. And if you own a business??? You didn't build that. Someone else made that happen... What a pig for making that comment. Dumboma needs to be removed.
Nitemare: Perhaps you haven't heard, but Tesla has a very large factory here in So. California....I believe it's in Downey or Norwalk. They bought an old aircraft factory (not Douglas, although they DID bid on that property). So, I'm not sure what you mean about Tesla building overseas....you should research these things first before putting them on the vine.
Well look who's blogging again - Feisty Redhead - Obama Campaign press secretary Jen Psaki - I knew for months that she was a paid political Obama blogger - MSNBC gave her the article and that way she could post first and then her buddies would thumbs-up her making it appear that everyone was pro-Obama ---- she's been on Fox and several other TV shows crowing about Obama --- I will always thumbs-down her as she was not a regular blogger but an inside cheater.
Because we all know that MSNBC is totally a radical liberal group and never tells the truth about the horrible shape we are in as a country, why would anyone bother posting here - let Feisty and her hinchmen spew their garbage - it is garbage and lies - forget posting honestly here, it's a shame
So Tammy,
You say blogs aren't to be believed? I agree. Funny how one of the six "studies" Romney quoted for his contention that his five point plan would work is just that, a "blog". Or is it just OK for Republicans to use them? Or are they the ones brainwashed? Just wondering....
So, you don't know why anyone would bother posting here.......yet, here you are posting. By the way, it is just NBC News again. So, I take it you will no longer be posting here seeing as how you are completely unhappy? I am sure that FOX Entertainment will be happy to have you back. They may have to do some deprogramming as they will find that you run the risk of spreading the truth that you saw when you stepped out of the bubble, but you refuse to acknowledge. They will deprogram you anyway. Fear not. Lush Limpballs will set you on the straight and narrow, narrow minded that is. Good luck. Peace. Buh-Bye.
That's what successful businessmen do..subject failing companies to "managed" bankruptcy..TEAM BARRY who didn't run a popsicle stand before he was elected bail them out by losing (25 billion and counting) taxpayer money...but, most of the "low information" voters that continue to support "Obama and Chuckles" won't know that as they have asked GM (which is on the brink yet again) to delay any financial remedies until after the election....he's so transparent?
Guess what dunderhead??? Running a business has little if anything to due with running a nation. The recored is clear, Willard the Draft Dodger was totally against the government bailout, that is a irrefutable fact. The people of Ohio, Michigan and the rest of the midwest will not soon forget.
And BTW, Willard did many leverage buyouts of companies that were forced into bankruptcy while he made out like a bandit.
The entire strategy of Bain was to BREAK the LABOR. Period. Implying anything else is a complete fallacy.
If the pension was liquid, Bain took it - if it was not - they 'restructured' and sold the parts.
That is all this boils down to. A Romney leadership is at the direct cost of the workers for the direct benefit of the management.
And that, my friends, is why they call him Mr. Etch a Sketch. He's erasing those nasty Labor costs and resetting companies all over the country. And when he can't make a profit - he ships the company overseas for even CHEAPER labor.
You blind followers should really buy a clue. This is not just my opinion, it is empirical evidential fact.
Post 9.2 is a joke.
Do you really know what a venture capital firm's role is? It isn't to buy and sell off. The real money to be made isn't in that, it's success is to rebuilt the failing organization, make it highly profitable, then sell off for record capital.
The risk is there, the capital is there and the final reward is great.
Nothing wrong with that Clara.
Now if you want to see a real corporate raider, look up KKR. They used this strategy unsuccessfully during the 80's.
Running a country has nothing to do with running a business? What? We have budgets, costs and income and it should be very much like running a business in that your costs should absolutely NOT exceed your income. But it hasn't been run that way for years and years and years, both parties are at fault.
Hey Funny Girl, you better be careful, that self-righteous LIB TARD Intrepid is some kind of "expert"....he has obviously run a lot of companies and nations and clearly knows the difference...can't mess with a GOOB like that.....HA HA HA.
BARRY/CHUCKLES/BIG BIRD - 2012 "FOWL WE CAN BELIEVE IN"
bucsdad - what a juvenile post. And, someone is supposed to think you have anything of value to say?
Obama/Biden 2012
Gosh Seeking Sanity, isn't your statement like the pot calling the kettle black?
Only you, and the liberal gang think that you have something significant to say. But your values don't amount to much.
Get over yourself deary, you are nothing more than boorish.
ALERT!!!!!! HUGE NEWS!!!!!
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA IS A MUSLIM!
If you all Dems and Rep watched the documentary Obama 2016
YOU WOULD NEVER EVER VOTE FOR HIM GUARANTEED!!! Do not vote until you watch it.......
Yeah....I know Seeking....isn't it cool? I just love making fun of LIB TARDS like you. And, just so you know, you are one of FAVS....well, at least top 5 LIB TARDS.
Do you ever wonder if BIG BIRD has "ROMNESIA?"
BARRY/BIDEN/BIG BIRD 2012
Seeking... Is seeking a welfare chech....lol
TO: chris-2051162 who wrote:
Mitt Robme is a Mormon.
Stop lying, carnival barker.
Obama/Biden 2012
I see the mental midgets are out in force now. And, you all prove my point. I've been seeking sanity in the Republican party but LeanForward, chris, bucsdad, LooLoo all prove there is no sanity, no integrity, no intelligence, no class at all in the Repubican Party. How low a once great party has fallen! But you misfits do quite well there!
Obama/Biden 2012
Oh c'mon SEEKING....you know you've always been a self-righteous NAIVE LIB TARD...and, quite frankly it suits you......YEEEHAWWW!!!
I see you have the right hat on anyway.....LOL!
Bucsdad - You don't get to sit with the grownups today. Children's table is to the right >>>>>>>
Let's remember Norquist said he doesn't want a thinker as president, he wants somemone with 10 digits who will sign whatever is put in front of him.
Romney is his perfect president.....not a thought in his head that wasn't put there by one of his handlers, and will to say and do anything he is told.
rmoney is nothing more than a manchurian candidate but for plutocrats and greedy corporations hell bent on taking over the country. Adelson, Koch's, etc.
Dragon - Sorry.....I gotta really yawn on that one......there....much better now...
Hey 110 % - Suggest you look at the book or watch the movie. The Manchurian Candidate is the personification of BO. Come from nowhere, win the hearts of the public, become the puppet of the puppet masters, and win the election to live out THEIR dream.
Talk - let me guess, you're a birther too, right? You guys get dumber as the day goes on. And, you're so stupid you post your ignorance for all to see!
Obama/Biden 2012
ALERT!!!!!! HUGE NEWS!!!!!
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA IS A MUSLIM!
If you all Dems and Rep watched the documentary Obama 2016
YOU WOULD NEVER EVER VOTE FOR HIM GUARANTEED!!! Do not vote until you watch it.......
chris - repeating a lie doesn't make it true.
http://factcheck.org/2008/01/sliming-obama/
Hey Chris
You seam to be wasting space that could be used for intelligent comments like the ones we see from American Girl, Seeking Sanity, Tomas Grande,Feisty, and Oldtimer.
Obama/Biden2012
I've already voted for the President (It felt really good)..
Folks.. DON'T Listen to ANYONE (even me.... but do take my advice)...
There isn't a poll in the world or another talking head on CNN or Fox that makes one ounce of difference at this point.. not to mention, millions of people have already voted. YOU.. GET OUT AND VOTE>.
Participate in the great American Democracy.
Grab a friend who is registered, ask your family if they have their ballot in yet. If you CAN'T vote early, ask your rep's why they let your state lag behind the nation.
Own it~!!! VOTE~!
Nothing like taking one in the backside there Holman.
I hope you enjoyed it.
I already voted for the President also. It does feel good doesn't it.
I voted for Obama/Biden yesterday and it really did make me feel "strong".
Forward
So...what are you talking about 1funnygirl?
Or are you just another republican afraid of people actually going out and voting?
No, I have no objection with anyone voting secondbrother.
As for going out and vote, AND LET ME MAKE THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR (spoken as Obama would), I will vote for the 45th President of the US.
I find it impossible to believe that anyone with a brain who can research fact from fiction, could vote for 44.
How can you believe Obama? Four more years of increased spending, lack of a foreign policy, let alone a domestic one, and an increase in health care spending?
Please inform me why you would vote for an empty suit? Talks the game, doesn't he, but has he walked the walk? I think not.
You "have no objection to anyone voting", yet you would insult and denigrate a person who did and anyone that chooses to vote differently than you?
And you would post a comment about "fact from fiction" when you post falsehoods?
How many double standards do you have, 1funnyfirl?
How can anyone with a brain believe taxes will be cut, more spending on defense will occur but the budget will somehow be magically balanced? I take it you're not a CPA like I am.
under Obama - drop in median family income for black families is 11% in last
for year - twice the rate for white families. unemployment for blacks is
twice is twice the 7.8% we have now. media not reporting this is basically
shifting the focus from failed economic and foreign policies. it helps no one
to lie, most importantly it hurts the poor and black families.
"Bankruptcy" is really a bad term to distinguish Obama's and Romney's position and takes this from a substantive argument/analysis to one based on semantics.
"Government Interviention" is really the point of distinction. Romney didn't think tax payer money should be central to aiding GM through the restructuring process, and Obama did. Personally, I think Obama was right on this one. There wasn't exactly a line of private investors ready to bankroll the restructuring and millions of jobs were at stake (not just people working directly for the automakers, but vendors, suppliers and small businesses in all of the communities). And in hindsight, it's hard to argue it didn't work out.
Just my 2 cents... but I hope Ohio remembers the president stepped up to the plate for them.
Good post. That really is the flaw in Romney's argument. He can't force private banks to loan money to bankrupt corporations. Even with federal guarantees, banks were simply not lending to anyone in 2008. When Obama saved the auto industry, it was a very unpopular move. He wasn't exactly chasing the polls. He deserves credit for making a hard, unpopular decision that turned out to be correct.
And now General Motors is on the brink of Bankruptcy again. Its amazing that GM is producing a vehicle that they sustain a loss of $29,000 on every volt sold. So much for bailing out the auto industry. Looks like Romney was right about private investors.
BTW: Romney Never said let Detroit go Bankrupt. Google it: you will find out who said it and the White House continues put their spin on it. In other words this administration told a Whopper.
And . . . what Romney fails to tell voters is that "putting the automakers into bankruptcy to reduce their debt" means that auto makers would have just writen off money they owed to other American companies, smaller companies who make parts for the auto makers, who would then have had to (1) lay off employees because they couldn't pay them or (2) file bankruptcy themselves and not pay their suppliers, who would then have (1) laid off employees or (2) filed bankruptcy themselves . . . . a "trickle down" of job layoffs and business failures - - Romney seems to be awfully fond of trickle down economics of all kinds - and none of them work for our country!!
For some real analysis, check out what someone who teaches bankruptcy law for a living says:
The upshot: Romney's "managed bankruptcy" plan would lead to closings and liquidations, more likely than not.
MUGger, Hussein's government-managed bankruptcy DID lead to closings and liquidations. AND screwed the legal bondholders.
TO: Oscar Rules who wrote:
The auto industries are neither closed nor liquidated.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that either.
Obama/Biden 2012!
ALERT!!!!!! HUGE NEWS!!!!!
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA IS A MUSLIM!
If you all Dems and Rep watched the documentary Obama 2016
YOU WOULD NEVER EVER VOTE FOR HIM GUARANTEED!!! Do not vote until you watch it.......
Walk it back Mitt! Nobody will notice! Hell there's probably some of the 47% and some of THOSE PEOPLE who vote in OHIO!
Obama Biden 2012
I'm sure they drug out an old dirty dog (greyhound bus to round up that 47% of slugs in Ohio who don't drive, don't pay taxes, don't pay for housing, get free food, sit on couch all day complaining, group of loosers). Is Greyhound still around. I wouldn't know, I'm not a transient..ei..looser..
Are you talking about my 82 year old grandmother or the 97 year old? They're both part of the 47% that you're referring too. Or, are you referring to my neighbor's son who's on his 2nd tour in Iraq?
I'm part of the 53% & Romney may care about me but I don't give a crap about him.
Is there one issue, just one, that Willard has not held 3 different positions on? If there is, I can't think of it. "I will preserve and protect a woman's right to choose and have access to safe, legal abortions".
"I'm a Progressive"
"I will be further to the Left when it comes to Gay rights than Ted Kennedy".
"I support stem cell research"
"I longed to serve with my fellow Americans in Viet Nam"
"I never really had much desire to join the military".
You can't make this stuff up folks. And yet, look how many Americans buy into his line of horse@!$%#.
The man really is an unbelievable liar.
zeeosix
The man really is an unbelievable liar.
-----------------------------------------------
Not an unbelievable one...try pathological....
why are none of the republiCONs replying to messages like this?
Search Ohio voter and Obama's free phones... This one is so funny. That is truley one for the hall of shame!!!!!
Yo... Secondbrother...How many idiots bought in to this Hope and Chance Crap!!!!lol They were not smart!!!!
LeanForward - and you're so stupid you don't even know the free phone program was started - with land lines - in 1996 by the FCC and is still run by the FCC. But, in your deranged world your stupidity keeps you laughing. How pathetic!
Obama/Biden 2012
SS,
Do you really expect them to do any research before they give out their party's rhetoric? Com'on, be serious. Just like their candidate, shoot from the "hip" whether it's got any truth or not.
LeanForward - the program started as a discount phone service in 1985. Learn to research instead of letting pundits tell you what to think.
http://www.fcc.gov/lifeline
"As president, I will create 12 million new jobs." —Mitt Romney, during the second presidential debate
"Government does not create jobs. Government does not create jobs." —Mitt Romney, 45 minutes later (Oct. 16, 2012)
Romney does not give a hoot about the middle class! He talks about making the labor costs the same as foreign car companies, getting rid of or reducing retirement benefits. Even changing management. Not going throughout the unions. Romney again steps on Middle Class Auto Industry backs. Managed Bankruptcy means screw American Auto Workers.
How can you trust a guy that changes his positon so much? He is not moving toward the center--He a wolf in sheeps clothing.
Proof please.
Don't have any, do you?
Just empty rhetoric --- like your 'fearless' leader.
Tammy ur right. all those obozo dumbocrats cannot think for their self. u know something is wrong with them when they listen to the bull obozo is spitting out. obozo is just an unbelieveable LIAR and CARTOON. PATHETIC
Romney's plan for GM was basically to ship those jobs to China just like he did with every other company. He can use any term he'd like but that's what he means.
Bart... YOUR DUMB..
Hey NBC you've got the headline wrong. It's not
"Romney's chances in Ohio tied to softening auto bailout stance"
The right headline is: "
Romney's chances in Ohio tied to lying about saying General Motors should be allowed to go into bankruptcy, with no federal support."
You seem to have forgotten that Romney lies and changes positions whenever it suits him.
he did. I checked it out. I am not taking up for Romney or taking sides on your post but he was right and Berry was wrong. Romney set him up for that statement to get that out last night. And Berry fell for it and didnt have his facts strait and Romney was banking on that. Everything Romney stated last night he rehurst and studied the facts before he said anything. The guy is cunning. And he knew Berry could not hold his tongue and he used it against him and it worked.
your boy is weak (o bammy that is),,,,and we will feed on his liver come vote time,,,,,,,,,,,rhetorically of course,,,,,,
Oops -- not allowed to post links. The article was published today at Dealbook.nytimes.com, by Prof. Stephen J. Lubben and is entitled Was There a Bankruptcy Alternative For The Automakers?
Lemme get that for you. I also wanted to share a piece of it. Thanks for the heads-up.
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/10/23/was-there-a-bankruptcy-alternative-for-the-automakers/
An article from a Democrat law professor who financially supports the Democrat campaign does not have any true credibility!
Funny MSNBC is already providing a potential excuse since Romney is closing in on Obama in Ohio.
That was my idea!! I said that!! When he said you didn't build that, he was right! I did! I built that! I've got 8 houses! I know how to build things. That's what I do! I build things and say things! I've been running for 8 years! I know how to run! That's what I do! I run for things and build things and say things. That's what I do!!I know how to run, and build and say! I'm a run,build say thing's man! Thats what I do!
Oh Mitt!
Obama Biden 2012
What a hypocrite. His constant shifts would be laughable if they weren't so frightening. Can you imagine a President who changes his policies on almost a daily basis, depending on his audience, or a President with no ideology, no vision, running America like one of his corporations? It's not just about the bottom line, Mitt, and corporations are not people.
Republicans 2012: Keeping millions out of work to put one man out of a job!
What about Obama that had no record 4 years ago?
He was not vetted. McCain could not touch him since BHO voted in absentia during his tenure in the Senate.
Now he has a record. A moderately good one on foreign policy and a reprehensible and irresponsible one as it pertains to job growth.
People do not want more food stamps.
They want jobs!!!
TO: Maobama Critic who wrote:
Why not call up some of those Teabagging wackos that Republicans sent to Washington during the last mid-term elections who all campaigned on JOBS JOBS JOBS and tell them to sign the President's Jobs Bill, IF you really want more jobs.
Obama/Biden 2012
You forget a record number of fillibusters in congress on every jobs bill they had. And by the way I remember the Rethuglicans saying if jobs,jobs,jobs in 2010 so where are the jobs. I can't say they haven't created any jobs,because they have created 1 job,that being a second term for President Obama. LMAO.
American girl, should be Muslim girl... Muslim girl loves muslim president...lol
If you cannot win on the merits then try to win on the bs and lies. That is all Mitt and you have going for your selves and that does not win elections.
Romney will do and say ANYTHING to get elected. In a world where that usually is not too uncommon to see, this guy though takes it to levels we've never seen before. I've never seen anything like it.
It actually shows what a blatent disregard he has for our intelligence.
it's rather sickening.
Isn't Obama 'guilty' of the same thing?
Considering that all Obama has to show for his tenure as President is abject failure, all Obama can do is try to lie to cover his screw-ups and try to smear Romney.
Real classy! NOT!
So, don't vote for him. Pretty simple.
keep telling the truth Tammy. he has nothing to run on. everything he said he would do ZILCH nothing. he has failed since day one. obozo thinks its a game.
VOTE ROMNEY/RYAN
ALERT!!!!!! HUGE NEWS!!!!!
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA IS A MUSLIM!
If you all Dems and Rep watched the documentary Obama 2016
YOU WOULD NEVER EVER VOTE FOR HIM GUARANTEED!!! Do not vote until you watch it.......
and my Mother is a car and Mr Ed is a talking horse
Taco - chris actually believes your mother is a car!
Obama/Biden 2012
Chris.....Really?........Seriously?? LOL...come on. Earth to Chris....Earth to Chris...come in? You are fading fast.
Romney will win Ohio and the election!!!
NO MORE OF 44!!!!!!!!!
Obama a auto industry savior? BAHAHA!!! this is so pathetic. If anyone is in the auto industry then they know better. Lets get real here, Chevy didnt need a bail out they needed to clean house and go into bankruptcy. That is government assistance, and protection. NOW, if they would take some advice or even look at other manufacturers that didnt have that problem of over stocking, they would not have been in that shape. Also if the price of freakn gas had not hit $4+ a gal by the end of 08 I dont see how they would have been in that problem either. When the price of gas went threw the roof when Berry took office, and Chevy and Dodge were having problems, Toyota stopped production on the Tundra and the Sequoia. Skipped a whole yr model. Chevy and dodge could have done the same thing. But no, Government Motors (GM) had the Gov. involved so it was another bad investment and a waist of the tax payers $. Yours and mine!! And the CEO's are on vacation while we are stuck at work grinding for the next buck. Ford didnt receive money...and their stocks dropped to $1.90 a share. Everyone got a piece of that and then they went up to almost $10. I dont know were it is now but Ford did it without the Gov. I was a GM guy but now just for that I will never buy another Dodge or GM product.
All American 522351, you laid out the perfect reason NOT to vote for Mitt Robme.
Too many lies.
Obama/Biden 2012
have you noticed how small and weak obammy's hands are, very freaky
No, but I did notice Romnesia's sweatty upper lip - just like the one Nixon had in the Kennedy debates that lost him the election.
Obama can palm a basketball. Not small, 99
all american:
Do facts matter to you??? The price of gas went threw (sic )the roof during the summer of 2008 not on Jan 09 when the president was sworn in. In fact a main GOP talking point as the stock market was tanking, we were losing jobs at 800K a month, gas was $1.61 on 01.06.2009, and Obama caused it to be $4.00 now. Bankruptcy requires some financing which there was no lending occuring Q4 2008, Q1-Q2 2009, the only choice was government just as Ronald Reagan did in the early 80's for Chrysler
ALERT!!!!!! HUGE NEWS!!!!!
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA IS A MUSLIM!
If you all Dems and Rep watched the documentary Obama 2016
YOU WOULD NEVER EVER VOTE FOR HIM GUARANTEED!!! Do not vote until you watch it.......
liar!liar pants on fire,bunch of malarkey,am wondering who is listening to idiot like you.
Chris, movies are made for one thing, propaganda or profit, usually both. Basing you decision on who to vote for because of a movies is just senseless. LMAo
Government Motors.. They are on the brink of collapse again.. Romney you were right...
Obama does not care about the middle class, his taxes and Obamacare will take a huge burden on them should Obama be re-elected. The rich will always be rich. It's the middle class and poor we should be concerned about. Currently under Obama - drop in median family income for black families is 11% in last
four year - twice the rate for white families. unemployment for blacks is
twice is the 7.8% we have now. media not reporting this is basically
shifting the focus from failed economic and foreign policies. it helps no one
to lie, most importantly it hurts the poor and black families. These are facts from facts.org - not from msnbc or fox. just facts. you can say you like Obama for other reasons, but you can't refute the numbers for the last 4 years.
These is just Faux News propaganda, If you want to mention the truth, I recommend you to go fact yourself
Obama 2012!!!
Mitt 1040????
Romney is again trying to re-write history.Here is the truth on Romney's position on the auto bailout:
Delusions About the Detroit Bailout
By STEVEN RATTNER
WHEN Mitt Romney takes the podium at Ford Field in Detroit today, he’s likely to include yet another sharp denunciation of the government’s rescue of General Motors and Chrysler.
That Mr. Romney would traverse Michigan trashing a program that saved tens of thousands of jobs at the Detroit-based automakers doesn’t necessarily mean he’s politically tone-deaf.
After all, an NBC/Marist poll recently found that 50 percent of Michigan Republicans who were likely to vote opposed the government’s actions (only 42 percent supported them).
Mr. Romney may have the primary politics right — though with a majority of Michigan voters supporting the rescue, he may want to pivot deftly before the general election in November. But on the substance he’s dead wrong.
As a presidential aspirant, Mr. Romney evidently hasn’t felt a need to be consistent or specific as to what should have been done to address the collapse of the auto industry starting in late 2008. But the gist is that the government should have stayed on the sidelines and allowed the companies to go through what he calls “managed bankruptcies,” financed by private capital.
That sounds like a wonderfully sensible approach — except that it’s utter fantasy. In late 2008 and early 2009, when G.M. and Chrysler had exhausted their liquidity, every scrap of private capital had fled to the sidelines.
I know this because the administration’s auto task force, for which I was the lead adviser, spoke diligently to all conceivable providers of funds, and not one had the slightest interest in financing those companies on any terms. If Mr. Romney disagrees, he should come forward with specific names of willing investors in place of empty rhetoric. I predict that he won’t be able to, because there aren’t any.
Without government financing — initiated by President George W. Bush in December 2008 — the two companies would not have been able to pursue Chapter 11 reorganization. Instead they would have been forced to cease production, close their doors and lay off virtually all workers once their coffers ran dry.
Those shutdowns would have reverberated through the entire auto sector, causing innumerable suppliers almost immediately to stop operating too.
Despite the relative health of its balance sheet, even Ford would have been forced to close temporarily, because critical parts would have become unavailable. And service providers — trucking companies, restaurants and more — would have been severely affected.
More than a million jobs would have been lost, at least for a time. Michigan and the entire industrial Midwest would have been devastated.
I consider myself an ardent capitalist, and well recognize the risks of government intervention, particularly the “moral hazard” of rewarding failure and the scary prospect of politics’ entering private sector decision-making.
But when markets fail, as they did for both autos and banks in 2008, government should have the ability — in fact, the obligation — to step in.
Interestingly, Mr. Romney’s current principal Republican opponent, Rick Santorum, has opposed not only the auto rescue but also the help given to the banks, which Mr. Romney supported.
Yet Mr. Romney has become the lightning rod on autos because of the full-throated roar with which he has delivered his views, including an Op-Ed essay in The New York Times in November 2008 and another essay in The Detroit News 10 days ago.
Among Mr. Romney’s grievances — and to be fair, those of other opponents of the auto rescue — is that the auto task force trampled on bankruptcy precedents and even the law to effect President Obama’s plan of “shared sacrifice” by all stakeholders.
What he conveniently ignores is that the president’s plan was litigated throughout the federal court system — all the way to the Supreme Court, in the case of Chrysler — without so much as a nod to the opponents from a single judge.
In retrospect, I recognize the emotions surrounding the decision to give members of the United Auto Workers company stock in exchange for resolving their health care claims. But the courts were emphatic that what we did was legal, because we remained true to a core principle of bankruptcy reorganization: every stakeholder received more from our plan than if the companies had been left to go bankrupt on their own.
Now, less than three years later, G.M. and Chrysler have markedly exceeded our expectations. Just a few days ago, G.M. reported an annual profit of $7.6 billion, and Chrysler is in the black as well. Both companies have increased their sales sharply, in part by making appealing new models.
And they are hiring new workers for the first time in many years. Michigan’s unemployment rate has dropped far faster than the national average, though it is still painfully high.
All of this was accomplished at relatively low cost; taxpayers will receive back the vast preponderance of the $82 billion that was invested.
“I’d do it again,” Mr. Bush said of the rescue in a recent speech. “Sometimes circumstances get in the way of philosophy.” Good thing he and Mr. Obama didn’t take Mr. Romney’s advice.
Steven Rattner, a longtime Wall Street executive and a contributing writer for Op-Ed, was the lead adviser on the Obama administration’s auto task force in 2009.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/24/opinion/delusions-about-the-detroit-bailout.html?_r=2&
If softening is waffling, then I'm cool with the phrase, but it is more like, "I was against it until I saw it working, and then it became solely my idea."
Romney should have a disclaimer at the bottom of every statement he makes:
Position subject to change. Past behavior is no indicator of future results. of Eligibility not available to 47%. Any interpretation of the words 'devotion', 'dedication', 'promise', 'truth' or 'honor' is reserved for Mitt Romney. Offer limited. May not be combined with similar offers from Paul Ryan. Restrictions apply. Purchase and lifetime commitment required. See fine print for details. Brought to you by Sheldon Adelson and the Koch brothers.