Feisty - wow! Bob is soooo proud of himself. Bet he and JERSY GIRL are pals. Neither has an ounce of sense and both are so easily pleased with themselves.

He's on top of the world for posting first and she keeps posting the same lie. But, when all you've got is Romney/Ryan I guess you have to find pleasure where you can!

Obama/Biden 2012

PS:I still would like to know why Lyin Ryan was gulping water like a guppy in distress?

Was his tongue on fire or something?

Too funny! Kind of like Romney's rapid blinking during his debate! I'd LOVE to play poker with these two! They certainly have easy "tells" when they're lying through their teeth!

Obama/Biden 2012

Bob, you needn't remind me of anything.

What about fast & furious? Spit out the lies.

Ambassador in Libya? Why are you making political hay out of a man's death? How many embassies were attacked during the GWB Admin. Look it up.

Lacking intelligence? That's rich.

The world is terrified of a Romney Administration. Why?

Lack of intelligence. Which is plain for all to see.

Let's go back to Ryan being a strong Catholic. How does he now run on the same ticket as Romney who owned a company that disposed of aborted fetuses? Wouldn't that be against EVERYTHING he stands for?

Seems he's a good little Catholic when it suits him. He clearly missed the 10 commandments - "Thou shalt not lie."

Obama/Biden 2012

drano - I agree with your premise but please don't use the "retard" word. It is really offensive to children and adults who have serious problems (being Republican is not one of them).

Romney and Ryan have no integrity and it shows every time they open their mouths. Ryan was schooled last night and he looked it!

Obama/Biden 2012

The debate certainly brought the republican war on women to the forefront. I hope women are the reason they lose.

"Let's go back to Ryan being a strong Catholic."

Let's start with the fact that the only thing these turds worship is the almighty buck. Romney and Ryan would throw their grandmothers under a bus to please their corporate benefactors and they only "use and abuse" religion as a vehicle to entice the intellectually challenged to vote for them. This really isn't rocket science, all one has to do is watch and compare what they say today with what they said to the last audience to see that they have no core, no credibility and are nothing more than sociopaths trying to take advantage of their fellow citizen.

i am looking for a reference as to which member of the intelligence community advised the administration that a web video was the apparent cause of the murders of Americans in Libya.

the administration has talked consistently about their assessment being based on this type of information.

drano - I believe you said it perfectly!

billyboy - I don't know how to explain this to you but the intelligence community rarely has online references to their information. If they did - it would no longer be "intelligence" and would be useless. Grow a brain!

Obama/Biden 2012

Typical response from you guys. Sorry I brought up the fact that a man was killed due to lack of security.

So what was your reaction when Reagan lost almost 300 marines in Lebanon because of a lack of security? What was your reaction when he tucked his tail between his legs and pulled out of Lebanon? What was your reaction to Bush's interrogation policies and abusive and illegal conduct at Abu Garib which undoubtedly put not only our soldiers in a bad position, but the rest of us as well? Now, consider in each of these instances the administration was spinning the crap out of these events to minimize their culpability and your comments about Benghazi seem rather pathetic and ignorant.

Vladimir Putin would chew off Ryan's face and send it back to Romney in a sandwich bag. Can you imagine Kid Ryan trying to dominate on the international stage?

Biden was gentle with Paul Ryan - Russians don't typically use laughter to cover their contempt.

stronghorse

Just Imagine - Pyscho Joe in the Oval Office..... running the country?

Hmm.. I don't think he is Psycho.. and I'd rather have someone in office who doesn't support a party line of legitimate rape.

As for Romney - Why did you feel compelled to use a murdered Navy Seal (in Libya) as part of your re-election campaign? Makes you a complete and utter disgrace.

As for you righties: I have one question. If Romney is elected and starts another war (and you know he will), are you willing to die for 'a nuclear free' Iran? Would you send in your own children? How about 2 TRILLION dollars more on our debt? Think about this as you consider the flip flopper

The republican/ tea party folks heads are exploding today. The wonder boy little paulie didn't live up to his expectations. The republican/tea party hacks are here to try to get the damage control up and going. Their here quoting biblical passages, throwing out insults, saying little paulie was bullied and trying to put all the blame on Joe because paulie can't debate. The most of the republican/tea party posts are typical responses when they to spin it their way. To bad know matter how they try its not going to happen.

@SeekingSanity

And Biden is a "better" Catholic for flat out supporting abortion?

Seems he's a good little Catholic when it suits him. He clearly missed the 10 commandments - "Thou shalt not lie."

Are you basing this on who you think lied more? Or are you basing it on 'forgetting' that Biden is also a practicing Catholic...

but please don't use the "retard" word.

I admit I get carried away and make poor descriptive word choices and I am sorry for offending your. I hope "intellectually challenged" is more in line with what you were referring to :-)

And Biden is a "better" Catholic for flat out supporting abortion?

No, Biden is a better person for realizing that his religious beliefs shouldn't be imposed on others who may have different religious beliefs.

stronghorse, I can imagine it a lot easier than I can if Lyin Ryan were in there. Neither Ryan or Mitt have any business in foreign policy. They want war so that their companies can sweep in and rebuild, just like Halliburton and that fiasco from the not so distant past. No thanks.

Governor Romney it took time to gather evidents after the attack on U.S embassy in Libya. In contract, you shoot first and ask question latter. Remember your Libya press conference?

Romney party cut 300 million dollars funding for security to protect American embassy overseas. Now, Romney wonder why we have attacked? Hmmm

Before Osama Bin Laden's death, Romney said he wouldn't go into Pakistan if we had Bin Laden in our sights and that it was not worth moving heaven and earth to find Bin Laden.

Before Chris Steven died in Libya, Romney "fled down a hallway and escaped up an escalator" to avoid answering a reporter about his position on the NATO mission in Libya.

Bob wins, he posted first.

Now Chuck, what did Bob win?

Chuck: Well Jeff, Bob has won himself a one-way ticket to Palookaville for the holidays. What a man. :D

And Biden is a "better" Catholic for flat out supporting abortion?

Biden is a "better" MAN for flat out supporting a woman's right to CHOICE!

No one is pro-abortion!

When you are capable little Jimmy, of getting pregnant, you will be offered a seat at the table!

amy --what do you suppose vladimir would do if the Vice President of the United States consistently and rudely interrupted him in a F2F meeting? do you think he would just sit there? would he find humor in the antics the VP pulled last night?

would folks just said that Joe is Joe?

Jimmy - Biden is a better Vice President because he knows his personal faith cannot lead his politics. See we have a separation of church and state and he recognizes that. He knows our freedom allows each of us to make our own decisions based on our own personal faith.

He knows that countries that press one religion on all of it's people are doomed to be in turmoil - like Iran.

His religious beliefs shape his personal life.

billybob - the VP of the US would not interrupt a foreign dignitary and you know the situation you pose is stupid.

Obama/Biden 2012

It's no coincidence that the "R" in Romney's campaign paraphernalia is nearly an EXACT copy of the "Robinson BMX" logo... It also bears a striking resemblance to a PBS logo... this guy has no ideas. He can't even come up with an original idea for a campaign logo!

My my, How the Righties are trying to spin this debate. The "Facts" are: Your boy got a good old fashioned "Bitch slapping" last night and you just can't deal with it. Metaphorically, ole Joe stood up on the table and pissed allover the lying little twerp. !!!LOL!!!

-

O&Joe 2012

Biden lied about the two wars, when in fact he voted for both of them. Biden lied about the security in Libya. Biden lied about prescription drug benefits for seniors which he supported. Biden lied when he said letting the Bush tax cuts expire for the top earners would only affect millionaires. Biden is a habitual liar, and since he said he always says what he means, then Biden-isms are not gaffs they are lies.

Get off your high horse seeking. You've used that word with me before. Oh, but now it's bad? Whatever. Your starting to sound like Romney, Obama and every other politician. Lies, lies and more lies.

weusall....seriously? You're picking on his logo? Wow, i guess that's it. We can not elect this man. His logo is soooooo second-hand, so his administration is bound to be a failure. My god you liberals are getting dumb.

kelly -- in the hearings earlier this week the question regarding funding as a reason for the lack of security was asked of the witness and this was her response:

Was the refusal to provide more security caused by budget cuts to embassy security? “No, sir,” Charlene Lamb, the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for International Programs, told the committee.

@Bob

Yes, it liberals that hate fact and logic. I'm not even going to waste my time with your subterfuge because IN FACT that is your entire strategy. The libs aren't the ones who say one thing to one audience and the opposite to another, and then when questioned about the discrepancy say they said neither. Let's talk about security and a few things you are conveniently leaving out.

Lyin Ryin whined that there should have been a Marine detachment guarding our embassy. Well guess what, Benghazi is not our main embassy and the ambassador was in essense visiting the Benghazi facility and our main embassy in Tripoli where our ambassador was stationed HAS A MARINE DETACHMENT. Now, when you consider that embassy security was slashed by 300 million dollars you also have to consider that not all security options are available. Regardless, security could have and should have been better. The difference between the Obama administration and previous Republican administrations is that Obama nor Biden is stating that security was adequate in response to an attack, and unlike the previous administration the Obama administration is RIGHTFULLY hesitant to call every action a terrorist attack until proven otherwise. I can understand why you expect that, curious George used terrorism to advance his agenda EACH and EVERY opportunity he had by ginning up the ass clowns on the right to buy into his BS.

What I find pathetic is you and your parties propensity to use national tragedies to further drive wedges between different segments of our society and it isn't surprising that you all excel at it so well. When you guys decided that perception was more important that the truth was the exact point in time that the GOP started to self destruct. The problem you have is that your base is only going to shrink once more and more people figure out what it actually is your side brings to the table.....and that is nothing more than a heaping pile of CRAP.

Yep, that had a lot of value.

Don't mind Bob - he's gasping for air after jumping in the pool without first attaching his arms and legs.

We can say that Joe gave Lyin Ryan a good old fashion bitch slapping. Hey Willard, you are next.

Ryan professes to be such a good Catholic ... believing that life starts at conception and ALL life is sacred. How in the sam-T-hell, then, can he justify being in FAVOR of the death penalty or back the sending of young men and women off to war to kill others or be killed?

What a crock! It is all about controlling women. If he believed so strongly in the sanctity of life it should be ALL life, at ANY age. What a hypocrite!

Obama / Biden 2012

Romney is showing signs of desperation, even a fool knows the president knows no more than what he/she is being told by intelligence.

But how did you like the butt kicking the old man gave the young American Taliban insurgent last night ?.......Long live liberty from religion

real denial was made by Mitt on Oct. 3 in the first debate - when I was shocked to hear Mitt the congential liar saying ... that he is for regulation of markets ...and he doesn't want to cut taxes to worsen the deficit - but but but the truth is the opposite - what Mitt told us himself - he wants government off bankers' back, and he wants to cut taxes worth $5 trillion.

Laughable that Biden and Obama lie about being on the right track- have none of you morons noticed the inflation happening around you? Hidden fees everywhere (pay your bill in cash is $3.00, ask Dr. to bill after insurance is $7.00, what used to be a container of 3oz. is now 2oz but at the same price, etc), that's what printing money like crazy is doing. They talk about taxing the rich- the highest revenue ever was under the Bush tax cuts, and the phony jobs numbers doesn't reflect the least amount of taxpayers EVER and the number of welfare recipients higher than EVER. What a bunch of mindless minions. Biden was just pathetic last night, the desperation was dripping and he used his years as a career politician to lie and spin the dismal state of the economy. Funny that Obama depends on these crooks (Biden charged with plagerism and impeached Clinton) to cover his butt.

Bob-2711464 - why don't you start listening and write it down and digest it. Romney and Ryan like privatization because more money for their class and if you are part of that industrial group of wealth then congrats...see the irony of this whole mess is the masses (middle class, i.e.- poor morons) vote against their interests....hahahahahaha

http://rense.com/general85/extor.htm

in the middle - you're a liar. I have NEVER used the term "retard" in any post. Not in all my posts will you EVER find me using that term.

You're a typical Republican - just lie and make up whatever you want.

Obama/Biden 2012

Sister and Brother Americans, You watched Lyin'Ryan Discharge all of his
spiritual vitriol Lying at Biden and the national media;Except Biden, AS WE DO,
see through EddiMunster's RUSE. Ryan's budget cuts to "balance the budget"? School
cuts, food cuts, national service cuts, NO MORE MEDICARE, You Sick? Die Quick!!!, and NO MORE SOCIAL SECURITY: These Evil B@$T@RD$ Have to pay for New and Profitable Wars at American's Expense.. BUT! BUT!! THIS LYINGB@$TARD wants to
extend EVEN MORE Tax Evasion Bonuses for his masters, THE EVIL RICH
republicanCrimeCartel. This Treasonous criminal and his "boss of bosses", Rommel, make
The Mafia look like Mary Poppins. Their aristocrat/elitist power bosses ARE THE
B@$T@RDS who raised gas to $4.60p/g, Retarded Hiring so jobs are scarce, Created
the insurance company "health care" Gold Mine for the thieving healthcare
insurance industry, AS Rommel's pal AT united healthcare TOOK HOME FOR 2008
SALARY! $128,000,000 *C A S H* for That year ALONE!! while united healthcare PAID policyholders
were denied and died.You know what? OUR America, the most advanced country in
the world, DOES NOT HAVE A UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE SYSTEM,
so as to leave WE Americans at the mercy of the health insurance SHARKS like united heathcare, IS
A NATIONAL DISGRACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You Know what I saw in this latest debate?
I saw paul ryan, as the pathetic puppet doing the LYING and Bidding for his EVIL
EVIL Aristocrat/Elitist 1-10% Rich and Corporate Rich Bosses. You KNOW How This Aristocrat bunch were Disposed of during the French Revolution in 1790? With a FINAL Date With THE MADAM. Here is a Very Very Very helpful link you wil find both interesting, amusing and
insightful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og35U0d6WKY&feature=player_detailpage

lay -- first big bird and now how much water a guys drinks? not much to talk about when there is only a bad record.

No, Biden is a better person for realizing that his religious beliefs shouldn't be imposed on others who may have different religious beliefs.

In my opinion, a person against or for abortion has nothing to do with the person's religious beliefs. It's a basic moral issue.

Let's say Biden is an atheist. Would he stand by and approve of someone being killed? I don't think he would stand by. He would try to stop it. At least I would hope he would try to stop it.

It is apparent to me that the USA has not suffered enough to learn a damn thing. If Romney's bunch win the Presidency we will all get another chance to experience the horror brought down on this nation by the last Republican administration.

We all wish to believe stuff that is offered as salvation, but we are digging our own grave if we turn back to the old ways that got us here.

It might do folks well to use their internet search engines to see exactly what has happened in our economy under the Republicans as opposed to the Democrats.

The party that used to be about Conservatives has gone down and away. What they are now are Far Right Wing freaks that hide behind the message of freedom when, in fact, they are into total control of people, making them do as they wish. The case over whether women have rights to their bodies is a perfect example. If we do not have control over our bodies, there can be no real freedom.

I'm sick to my stomach that after all these years I've been around, that would be 81 of them, first voting for an actual Conservative, Ike Eisenhower, most likely the best modern age leader we've had and now find that the great conservative party has been offering us clowns with no sense of what America is about.

Bush 2, and Cheney!, McCain and Palin, and then that line up of idiots scrambling for the presidency, most of them calling the guy that won out the "Worst president to go against Obama". Educate yourselves. Begin with seeing what Republicans have said about Romney.

Hey, I am number 337!! Come at me, Fiesty!!!!

LOL

How pathetic can your life be when commenting on a forum first gives you that thrill down your leg? It must be a dank, dark cave and the only light is an old monitor.

I still ddin't see this stressed enough: if private, to his big money donors, he says that he will provide massive tax cuts. He even acknowledges that the message of massive tax cuts is not likely to appeal to half of America, because they won't benefit.

But in public, he says no tax cuts for the wealth at all!!! (Note to the mathematically challenged - revenue neutral means he collects the same money. If the rich pay the same share of the same money, they get zero tax cuts.)

Mitt is being fundamentally dishonest, either to his big money backers, or to the little people. My money is on him misleading the little people.

@Pigotry -

You get the First Read award for best prediction, when you noted yesterday that "feisty" Joe Biden would show up! ☺

MAN did he evuh!

I think Biden should be honest and say he doesn't agree with the Catholic standpoint - here's my point on that:

If Biden is Catholic, he's "supposed" to believe that life happens at conception. Let's say he even does... okay well he is okay with killing that life, essentially. Aren't you supposed to be against the killing of innocent life? Is that a religious issue or moral one? If he doesn't believe that then that's a different story... just think about that though.

I'm clearly not actually talking about whether or not he's right, Catholic's are right blah blah... just from a logical standpoint.

EDIT: I just read you Jo Ann... good point. Basically against or for killing life. There is no confirming scientific evidence that a fetus is or is not a life... thus wouldn't we err on the side of caution and just not kill this person or thing?

Regarding the abortion position - many of us do not believe it is "murder" in the slightest. It is stopping the creation of a sentient being before that sentient being is formed. In fact, the Catholic Church equates abortion with birth control in that both stop the creation of a sentient beings, and therefore both are equally wrong.

The GOP's attempts to use government intrusion to impose their religious beliefs is a direct contradiction of the US Constitution. That's the conclusion of Roe v. Wade.

As to the comment that Catholics are "supposed to believe it is murder," Catholics also believe in free will. God did not put us on earth to eliminate sin through government morality laws. Biden is being perfectly consistent if he wants to view abortion as a sin, but not as illegal. The only people who think religious laws are a good idea obviously do not believe in the US constitution.

Biden won big on that point.

Love to see how people argue over what two men have to say when all they are going to do is sleep in a chair while the President speaks to the nation during the State of the Union address. Big deal.

noncoms says;

Regarding the abortion position - many of us do not believe it is "murder" in the slightest. It is stopping the creation of a sentient being before that sentient being is formed.

If it isn't formed then there is nothing to stop. Typical libbie tunnel vision and denial.

Kelly-Independent

Romney party cut 300 million dollars funding for security to protect American embassy overseas. Now, Romney wonder why we have attacked? Hmmm

More democrats voted to cut funding than did republicans. So in actuality, the Obama party cut the funding and got the ambassador killed. Nice try with the diversionary tactic.

Poor Romney still standing on our dead for a platform. 2,000 dead in Afghanistan but Romney has nothing to say about them. IF FACT failure Romney wants to INCREASE OUR WAR. Bring the troops home.

And the POLLS ARE OUT. Ryan LOST by 30 percent LOL

OBAMA 2012

ROMNEY 1040

I find it interesting that one side screams lies at the other when there two clowns in the ring are the ones doing it. Four Americans were not killed because of a you tube video. Anyone with one brain cell knows it and the fools on the left keep saying it. This current administration is horrible at its finest moments.

Obama is clueless at best about anything. Joe is worse

@ Dal;

First - quit voting for your own posts, it looks silly. Then, do a little research before you mouth off. Romney has said he will bring the troops home - the difference between him and Barry though is that Barry gives our enemies a time-table so they can start making plans.

It is stopping the creation of a sentient....

I understand what you mean but please, abortion is really stopping a fetus. A fetus has a heart by six weeks.

By stopping a fetus you are stopping a heartbeat.

By killing a person you are stopping a heartbeat, whether that person is 1 day old or 100 years old.

And the POLLS ARE OUT. Ryan LOST by 30 percent LOL

Lol was that a CNN poll or a NBCNews poll? (Can't trust either.)

Ryan also LIED

Ryan's constituents benefited from stimulus spending and other government-assistance programs, according to AP's review. Ryan once told federal regulators that cutting a stimulus grant for a town in his district at the 11th hour would be "economically devastating."
Much of Ryan's correspondence is similar to other lawmakers performing constituent duties, describing problems that residents have reported. They include requests such as assisting a family missing airline baggage and helping a man who didn't receive a pancake maker he had ordered.

I don't understand why this Libya issue has become such a big deal (other than the fact that Republicans think they can demagogue on the issue and use it as a political hammer).

Our intelligence community can't predict the future, this was not a "failure" of intelligence, Libya is a dangerous place, nor is Obama directly responsible for intelligence gathering. You can't misconstrue this as "Obama's fault."

What's the big @!$%#ing deal here? I just don't understand it?!?

FOX News called Ryan a tool and a liar. LOL. Sorry Repubs too funny

Deceiving

On the other hand, to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention to facts, Ryan’s speech was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech. On this measure, while it was Romney who ran the Olympics, Ryan earned the gold.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/30/paul-ryans-speech-in-three-words/?fb_action_ids=10151189044597182&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=timeline_og&action_object_map=%7B%2210151189044597182%22%3A430876850304107%7D&action_type_map=%7B%2210151189044597182%22%3A%22og.likes%22%7D&action_ref_map=[]#ixzz2970exAMH

Vote Romney/Ryan if you want the government to ban abortion and hormonal contraception. That's right, expect Ryan's "Personhood" legislation to outlaw the IUD, the pill, and all sex for pleasure! Bat @!$%# crazy!

The Republicans are bankrupt and corrupt and wants the government to legislate your sex life!!

Extremists of the most vile type.

Romney is in denial about his chances of winning.

When first news of Benghazi came in, Romney shot off a statement prematurely. He is a shoot first ask questions later Republican.

Can America please try to stay out of wars for a few years? Not with Romney.

The only new thing I learned from the VP "debate" is that Biden is a rude, obnoxious, jerk. Prior to the debate I would only have said gaffe prone clown.

Are you serious? Mitt Romney is accusing the administration of contradicting itself?!?

Jo Ann - that is your belief and you should live according to your beliefs.

Biden realizes that hs is the VP of all of us - and not everyone believes as you do. He knows he has no right to impose his beliefs on others.

Romney/Ryan have stated - in the past - that they would oppose abortions in all cases - rape; incest; and to save the life of the mother. There is no way I want these men deciding for women that they have no choice.

Obama/Biden 2012

Sure Biden laughed. Who wouldn't laugh in disbelief at the pure malarky that was spewing out of his opponent's mouth. By the way the Vice President used the word malarky so as to avoid a stronger 4 letter word starting with s and ending in t which would accurately depict excatly what the lying Ryan tales, lies and half truths we all heard.

Chuck:

Unless you have a vagina you don't have a horse in the race. If men could get pregnant there would be abortions available at drive-thru windows.

As a woman who suffered an ectopic pregnancy (that's a tubal pregnancy) and would have died had idiots like Ryan had their say, I can tell you for sure and for certain that anti-abortion laws are laws AGAINST women.

It is a personal decision between a woman, her beliefs and her doctor. Keep your laws off our bodies and keep your religion to yourself.

Obama / Biden 2012

Yeah @Dal, that's called an Opinion page where the writer can write what s/he wants. Just like in the Newsweek(mostly liberal) article, Obama must go.

Biden looked like a creepy jack-o-lantern up there grinning.

In all this I noticed that Romney did not mention anything about how the Republicans slashed funding for embassy security. Here is what the Washington Post had to say about that on Oct 9, 2012:

"For fiscal 2013, the GOP-controlled House proposed spending $1.934 billion for the State Department's Worldwide Security Protection program—
well below the $2.15 billion requested by the Obama administration. House
Republicans cut the administration's request for embassy security funding by
$128 million in fiscal 2011 and $331 million in fiscal 2012. (Negotiations with the Democrat-controlled Senate restored about $88 million of the administration's request.) Last year, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned that Republicans' proposed cuts to her department would be "detrimental to America's national security" — a charge Republicans rejected. Ryan, Issa and other House Republicans voted for an amendment in 2009 to cut $1.2 billion from State operations, including funds for 300 more diplomatic security positions. Under Ryan's budget, non-defense discretionary spending, which includes State Department funding, would be slashed nearly 20 percent in 2014, which would translate to more than $400 million in additional cuts to embassy security."

So it doesn't look like Republicans are all that interested in the security of our embassies in spite of all their blather.

Here's another successful result from the "Arab spring"...

Egypt's Brotherhood heads urged jihad for Jerusalem

AFP - The supreme guide of the Muslim Brotherhood, from which Egypt's President Mohamed Morsi emanated, called on Thursday for a jihad (holy war) to liberate Jerusalem from Israeli rule.

Now that's Obama's forgein policy for ya...

Pathetic just pathetic

It's time to turn the page on this failed presidency...

The middle class and your children/grandchildren can't afford 4 more!!

The President and VP say they were never told by the intell community,the intell community says they did, easy enough to prove, or disprove, meticulous logs are kept, and IF Someone in the intell community happens to come forward with documentation that the intelligence that more security was needed was in one of the intell briefings, especially if it was in one that the President routinely decided to skip,...... Noble Leader is finished.

Romneyhood the serial liar is unbelievable. Why would anyone believe anything he says? He has zero credibility.

Mitt Romney tells 533 lies in 30 weeks, Steve Benen documents them

You guys can look up the meaning of sentient on the web if you don't understand it. Sentient means capable of having thoughts. You can believe whatever you want about the timing of life, and I have that option, too. I do not believe that any harm is done by stopping a fetus before it has the capability of forming a brainwave (brain wave function is generally considered the end of life, why not the begining of life? No one thinks heart stopping is the end of life, since it is often done intentionally on the operating table - do you call that murder? Synchronous brain functions start about 26 weeks into the pregnancy.)

But my point is - my belief is as valid as yours, and let God decide after we die. You who want to impose your religious laws on the rest of us are not in accordance with the US constitution, or American traditional beliefs in freedom.

DrowningGrover says;

I don't understand why this Libya issue has become such a big deal...I just don't understand it?!?

Let me try to help you.

The embassy asked for additional security persooel, twice in fact, after other terooroist activity near the embassy was detected. They were told "no" twice. When the embassy people were killed by terrorists a short time later Barry sent his people out to tell the world it was not terrorists but reaction to a film.

Since then it has come out that the White House knew withing 48 hours it was terrorists - yet continued to tell the world a lie. The upshot is this. The President - and now the Vice President have both been lying to cover their own behinds.

Old enough to remember Watergate? Nobody died as a result of Watergate.

Most of the people commenting here are not seeing the whole picture. Both tickets are not concerned with winning each debate, only concern is the electin.

We can all agree Obama came too calm at the first debate. He appeared rusty and unprepared, translating to an incompetent image. Romney's respectable yet aggresive attitude was what earned him atleast a second look from voters.

Romney/Ryan 1- Obama/Biden 0

At the Veep debate Ryan appeared much like Obama did. Calm and reserved, especially in sharp contrast to Biden. Biden did not have the same aggresiveness as Romney, yet there was a SPECIFIC purpose to that. Biden was a team player in that he would take the heat from undecided voters in order for Obama to get some fire behind him.

Obama/Biden 1- Romney/Ryan 1

I think next pres debate we will see Romney's attitude in Obama and should make for a much more interesting fight. I know many will disagree with me for claim Biden's win but you must admit it at the very least haulted Romney's momentum, giving Obama a second chance (One that he MUST seize)

Jersey said way up at 1.18:

So Red, you won't admit Biden lied? You won't admit he laughed while doing so? To me, four dead Americans is no laughing matter and neither is the coverup.

What lie? He called Ryan on the not-fiscally-conservative votes for the wars and Medicare part D. He didn't say whether he voted for them.... first, Biden didn't vote for Part D, he did vote for the war authorizations. There's no lie, or even hypocisy in that. Ryan says he's fiscally conservative, he's the one who rails against government spending, not Biden. Yet Ryan voted for those budget busters.

Bengazi. No lie there either. Where's the lie? Intel told them it was protest. Until they changed the story, that's the story. I find it amazing that the right is jumping on this. It was a mess up, for sure, but you can't try to pin everything on the president. Some things just aren't his fault. ...and I would also say that about Abu Ghraib and George Bush.

noncoms says;

- my belief is as valid as yours, and let God decide after we die.

No doubt you will have an interesting discussion with God, but it will be His definition of life that He will be using as a gauge, not yours.

Unless you have a vagina you don't have a horse in the race. If men could get pregnant there would be abortions available at drive-thru windows.

Wow your hubris is astounding. You would cut out half the population simply for having a Y chromosome?

If anyone had any brains in this administration, instead of screwing it up like they did with the first two fake kill pictures of Osama Bin Laden, all they would have had to do would have been to accept responsibility for their utter failure as an administration and just have some people getting fired or resigning all the way up to the President.

But we all know that isn't going to happen, now don't we?

@Alex, I don't agree with you that Biden won, but I do agree with everything else you say. Ryan did let Biden talk too much and should have put his foot down when Biden tried to interrupted. Also I agree that it did halt Romney's momentum and did help Obama regain some space.

Joe Biden statement:

The vice president said "we did not know" that the post in Benghazi had asked for more security that day, the 11th anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on New York and Washington.

Perhaps Joe wasn't lying and genuinely didn't know they asked for more security because Obama decided that Joe didn't need to know about any of this. I would speculate that there's lot's of stuff that Obama doesn't share with Biden, and it is not uncommon for a president to keep things from the Vice President.

Case in point; Harry Truman only learned of the existence of the atomic bomb after he was sworn in as President. FDR didn't see a need to include Truman in the small circle of people that knew about the existence of the Manhattan project.

However, that doesn't explain his rude and abrasive behavior during the debate.

@ d appel;

I do have a say, although I'm sure it bothers you that I do. That, however does not give you the right or ability to speak for others or assume their opinions.

However, before running off at the mouth again you might want to research what Romney's position is and what he's done. His conscience, morals and character precluded him (libbies don't have morals or is it tunnel vision/denials? - it would explain why don't recognize them when confronted by someone that does) from signing a law that would allow the murder of fetuses - but his stand includes allowances for rape, incest and the health of the mother as considerations.

Bob,

I admit that there is no clear "winner" but stopping that momentum is a win for them. And that is the best measurement I can determine. I see it more as a benefit for the Obama campaign in the long run

As I said early, was it pathic when Obama said Romney gave a woman cancer and killed her?

See the problem with this is your statement is absolutely and completely FALSE. Obama never claimed that Romney "gave" a woman cancer and "then killed her". Only a complete and utter moron would make this kind of asinine statement. The only reason you make and continue to bend, stretch, warp or completely disregard the truth is because the facts don't support your view. Nice try, well actually not, it was a PATHETIC try. Go back to sleep before you hurt yourself and risk reducing that single digit IQ you carry around.

I want to grab Romney by the shirt collar and shake him; yell STOP IT, stop this nonsense, stop this warped political game. I find this entire line of politics completely disgusting. Shame on Mitt Romney, shame on Darryl Issa, shame on Jason Chaffetz, shame on the GOP, shame on Paul Ryan for taking a tragedy--the death of an ambassador and three others--and turning it into a political football in an effort to sway voters. No one is trying to cover up anything and that is the simple truth. But we have Romney, Ryan and the Witch Hunter Issa helping Romney by holding an investigation when we do not have all the facts. Issa and his friends could not come back to DC to actually pass say the Farm Bill or anyone of the dozen important pieces of legislation but they can come back to play judge and jury. Pathetic.

For once, why can't we as a country and our political parties, unite behind the tragedy and wait for the CIA, the FBI, the State Department investigations to be completed. Instead of looking for someone to blame, look to figure out what happened and how to prevent a similar attack in the future. This kind of nonsense from Romney and the rest of the GOPers angers me. It should anger everyone regardless of being right, left or center.

His conscience, morals and character precluded him (libbies don't have morals or is it tunnel vision/denials) from signing a law that would allow the murder of fetuses - but his stand includes allowances for rape, incest and the health of the mother as considerations.

So in other words Chuckie - Romney is both for and against abortion. On the one hand, you claim it violates his morals, but on the other hand, he will allow his morals to be violated under conditions he prescribes. Well, who the eff made him GOD and the 'allowance' decider? Or you, for that matter.

Almost every ObamaPHILE who posted in this thread, has completely avoided addressing the topic.

The fact is that this administration was warned about the dangers of a possible attack on our diplomatic personalin Libya. The warnings were ignored, no additional security measures nor personnel were sentthere, and four (4) people died needlessly.

Obama is going to try to avoid answering any questions about this over the course of the next month, because this single issue could turn the election for Romney.

If extra personnel weren't sent because Obama was trying to give the impression that the world so loves him, and everything is hunky-dory; knowing that there was a threat made to the lives of our people, and four people died because of HIS inaction, then I think he should be removed from office and charged criminally.

DEMOCRATS FOR ROMNEY 2012!!!!!!!!!!

What did the White House know, and when did they know it?

What did the State Department know, and when did they know it?

How high up does the cover-up go?

Who instructed Ambassador Rice to lie on national TV?

President Obama needs to answer these questions!!!!!!

Chef Darrell:

Really? How is it you feel that I am out of touch with reality? It simply is arrogant for anyone, and men in particular, to believe that they should have control over what a woman does or does not do with her own body.

As usual, you cherry picked one part of my post to re-quote - why not the entire post? You know, the part where I explained:

As a woman who suffered an ectopic pregnancy (that's a tubal pregnancy) and would have died had idiots like Ryan had their say, I can tell you for sure and for certain that anti-abortion laws are laws AGAINST women.

Guess you didn't want to argue about the right to abortion if the woman's life is in danger. Hard to make that point and still have any credibility.

Hold tight to whatever faith you need or want for yourself, but it is not your place to enforce YOUR religious beliefs on others. It is not your right, because of what you believe, to deny others their rights.

Obama / Biden 2012

1. You mean somebody actually believes this lying flip-flopping clusterf*ck's (Mitt Robmey) would be some kind of improvement in foreign policy?? Maybe if skill in lying was taken into consideration by our allies and enemies. But, going on Robmey's recent foreign trips, our allies and enemies all have nothing but CONTEMPT for Mitt Robmey!!
2. Btw, Biden kicked Ryan's lying a$$ last night. Lyin' Ryan looked like a liar and was a liar....

I don't understand why this Libya issue has become such a big deal...I just don't understand it?!?

Let me try to help you.

1. The GOP platform is bankrupt, they have nothing appealing to the middle or lower spectrum of our society, just the wealthy.

2. The GOP is embarrassed that the people now know that the DEMS are much stronger on national security than the GOP. The people also know that the reasons the Bush administration used to attack Iraq was false and was a war of opportunity, and they blew it. They also know that the reason for going into Afghanistan was to dismantle Bin Laden's terrorist machine and kill Bin Laden, and most now realize that Bin Laden didn't escape Tora Bora, Bush let him get away to gin up the public even more in the "hunt for Bin Laden". After all, it only took a SERIOUS president to find and kill Bin Laden, Curious George had 8 years and stated he didn't even think about Bin Laden. The American reaction to Bin Ladens death certainly showed the American people thought about Bin Laden.

What the GOP is really pissed about, and why they are trying like drowning rats to find solid ground to use Benghazi as yet another opportunity to try and bullsh*t the American people, is that we now know that the GOP are and always were FRAUDS. Every time someone dissented against the policy of George Bush they cried patriotism and borderline treason. The vilified Cindy Sheehan, a mother who lost a son in Bush's unnecessary war because she refused to "tow the GOP banner" and get behind what will inevitably be call a crime.

I don't blame the GOP and their idiot followers for being pissed, they can't hind behind patriotism and subterfuge forever, and people are waking up to their lies and deceit. My advice - the GOP should self deport.

ZMAN,

While I am not an Obamaphile, Obama gets thousands of requests made each day. Committees review requests for budgetary increases and form reports which in turn get sent up the pipe. It is unfortunate that more security was not in place, yet I am unconvinced the American people would receive better security under a Romney administration.

Romney has begun voicing concern in the middle east and I read his actions and statements as a possibility for raging war in Libya, which I for one do not approve of.

Dems for Wormney? LMAO.. Reality check.

Biden was the Professor and Pauly was the schoolboy who got caught with one inaccuracy after another in his term paper. Ryan was just a robot repeating useless information without facts. He couldn't answer a single loophole they'd close to make up for his bosses 20% across the board tax cuts. Ryan couldn't explain why he asked for millions in "stimulus" but also wanted to stop it from happening! Ryan was clueless last night. Sure Biden was forceful and expressive, I prefer that over automatic and boring anyday. I guess its ok for Wormney to be abusive, abrasive and rude but not for Biden?

If Amercia elects Wormney & Pauly Shore as the next leaders we can expect these 3 things to happen. 1: Unemployment will hit 10% by the end of year one! 2: War with Iran, Syria, Russia, Libya, China and North Korea by the end of year 1 (unilaterally too under a Wormney regime).. 3: Martial law installed inside Americas borders to quash freedom of speech.

Oh I'll add this too: RAHOWA.. google that GOPers and see what thats all about. THE GOP started that!

The same people who want to control women's bodies are the same ones who want to take contraception from them. Get a damn clue. Do I get to decide what is covered on your insurance plan? Do I get to choose where MY tax dollars go?

Not everybody believes organized religious dogma, we have a separation of church and state for a reason. Women don't want politicians or churches in their personal healthcare decisions. I've never gotten an abortion but also know it isn't my business what other women decide. Butt out, people, worry about your own lives and decisions. The republican war on women will bring them down.

Almost every ObamaPHILE who posted in this thread, has completely avoided addressing the topic.

No, the reality is that every "ObamaPHILE" here refuses to let idiots like you and the rest of the Bullsh*t Mountain rejects define the truth regardless of what the truth is and refuses to let you abuse this national tragedy in an effort to hide the lies and deceit of the Romney Ryan campaign.

@ Bob-2711464

In response to your first post, congrats. There are fewer people going to church now than another time in American history. Do you think quoting Proverbs is going to make a difference? Ryan was nailed on Libya and Bengasi when he was ousted for cutting security funding! Who's fault is it really that we are not protecting our Citizens? One other thing, Ryan says he has a 5 point plan to get us to a unemployment rate of fewer than 6%. He says he can't tell you how because that has to be worked out in a bipartisan way in congress and senate. How does he plan on getting two sides to work together when they haven't been able to work together for the last 4 years? This whole idea that Romney is going to make things better but first we need to reverse some things already in place is absolutely ludicrous. Move us forward not backward! Do you want to know what is happening in the United States these days? It's the Internet and the ability for American's to come together and understand they are not the only ones that think the way they do. In the Middle East the Internet over through governments and it's about to do the same thing here if you Republican's don't figure out how to play and pay your fair share! We won't stand for your Sh#t much longer and it's showing.

leave religion aside for a minute. As some point in the 9+ months - maybe even just late term for the staunchest pro-choicer, most everyone should concede that the yet-to-be-born are viable humans. So they are Americans who are imbuedwith inalienable rights. Even though they are within their mother, they still have rights. And their rights are not trumped by their mother's rights no more than my rights don't trump yours.

This is not a religious argument. This is a constitutional argument.

People of good concience differ on when that point is. So be it.

But I am tired of people saying their is something wrong with defending the rights of an American who is not yet born. If they are viable, how is it right to deny them their rights? How is it right to claim its OK to kill them just because their parentage (in the rape incest case) is repulsive? Not their fault.

I'm not religious and I fully respect a woman's right to choose. But choose early. Doing nothing is also a choice. And if you wait to choose, its not the religious zealots stopping you. It's liberty focused American's who reject your thinking that killing another American is acceptable.

Note the expression on Romneys face as He waves in the leadin photo. Looks like He realizes, He put too much trust in a fart He just let slip through.

It's funny reading some of the comments where it seems some actually thought Ryan won. At best, it was a draw. I think Biden actually had a slight edge. No substance some say? Not sure what debate that was. Ryan at times was confused it seemed, especially with Libya. First putting blame on the current administration and their actions since, then coming back and basically saying they wouldn't do anything different right now, then seemingly not really having an answer when called out on it. I also think Biden was better prepared in many of the rebuttals. While it was true about the request for more security being denied as Ryan said, Biden was quick to turn around and point out that Ryan voted to flat out altogether cut back on funds for overseas security for these types of diplomats, which is also true.

Not sure why people care that Biden was laughing. I was amazed at how many people I heard last night talking about how he was being disrespectful and interrupting last night. Did they NOT watch the presidential debate? Romney had that stupid grin constantly on his face and was constantly interrupting not only Obama but the poor weak moderator. I thought Biden was much less interrupting and the moderator did a great job of keeping both pretty in line. Any candidate is going to laugh/smirk or whatever when they feel the other is flat out lying. When Romney went on the attack the repubs touted how great he did, when Biden does the same, hes in the wrong.

In the end these debates are stupid, both sides are going to have their lies and grossly exaggerated math. Both are going to keep holding onto untruths about the other sides plans. How many times do we have to that the dems are cutting defense spending, when all they're doing is giving them what they're asking fork, and not more. Nice strategy for the repubs to want to spend more money than was requested on defense and than spin it that the dems are cutting funds.

Also loved Ryan claiming how much taxes have gone up on the middle class. Says who? Mine surely haven't gone up over the past 4 years. Can't wait to see what tax credits I'll lose though if Romney gets elected. You'd think he would want to be open about what he plans on cutting. For an undecided (not me)voter, how are they supposed to choose if he will give no specifics for his plan therefore they don't know what way they will be effective.

Either people in the administration are not telling the truth or the organization has been incompetent in this matter. Of course the President is in the habit of stating that judgement should not be made until all the facts are in but against his own advise he ventures an opinion anyway. Maybe it is only the President or his handlers that are incompetent. My biggest concern is regarding the very official statements of untruths made to the public by our UN Ambassador. I have never before heard her make an official statement to the public. She is suppose to be the UN Ambassador and not the administration's ambassador to the people. Where did her information and her orders come form?

Ole Joe is teaching debate tactics now............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1ZvnpMRazXc

ANGER is the new face of the Democratic party...........

Biden's asinine grinning and laughter even while the most serious subjects were being addressed was creepy! Was he on some sort of drug?

CNN poll hands the debate for RYAN with 48% versus Biden's 44%. One undisputed fact was that Biden frequently interrupted Ryan throughout the debate, and that was taken into account by the viewers who thought that Biden spent 70 per cent of the debate attacking his opposition while Ryan only spent 19 per cent of his time doing so.

Two post debates polls vote Ryan won VP debate. Pundits called Biden's laughter inappropriate. CNN and CNBC both conducted post debate instapolls and declared Paul Ryan the winner of the vice presidential debate, and politico has a nice roundup of journalists and media pundits all criticizing Biden's constant smirks, smiles and laughter during the whole debate.

I also loved the bold statement by Ryan that they will have us completely North American energy independent by the end of the decade. Really? In 7 years we're going to be supplying ALL of our own energy. i don't care what party makes that claim, that was probably the most ludicrous promise I've heard in this election.

@ red;

I stated Romney's position, not my own, to clear up a libbies misunderstanding - which seems to be rather common, but - as I told noncoms, it will be God's opinion that matters. I don't plan on testing His opinion.

It would simplify the discussions if libbies actually read what was written before blustering. Try it next time.

The embassy asked for additional security persooel, twice in fact, after other terooroist activity near the embassy was detected. They were told "no" twice. When the embassy people were killed by terrorists a short time later Barry sent his people out to tell the world it was not terrorists but reaction to a film.

The request was denied because of State dept. policy, not because Obama personally came in and said "No." When you cut the budget of the security portion of the state department, you don't get increased security. And what good would a couple extra security guards have done against dozens of heavily armed militia?

This is all armchair monday morning quarterbacking.

Since then it has come out that the White House knew withing 48 hours it was terrorists - yet continued to tell the world a lie. The upshot is this. The President - and now the Vice President have both been lying to cover their own behinds.

Immediately following the attacks the Administration talked about the inflammatory video, as they should have, dozens of other protests around the world were springing up. So they were wrong about this particular attack, it WAS an organized terrorist activity and they willingly admitted that when the intelligence community put the correct timeline together. And they're not lying about anything, both Obama and Biden will tell you this was terrorism now that we know what actually happened.

Romney made some off-the-cuff stupid remarks about this incident immediately after too, and I don't feel the need to attack him over it either because it's stupid @!$%# said without a clear picture of what actually happened.

/yawn, I still feel like this is much ado about nothing

Old enough to remember Watergate? Nobody died as a result of Watergate.

Really? Really? You're comparing THIS with watergate? yikes.

Move along folks, nothing to see here. It was a tragedy, mostly unavoidable. Pray for the family of the victims and for the demise of the perpetrators, but lets stop using this event to play political football...

@ Kannin

When the other side can only complain about the style of their opponent and not the substance it is a clear indication of who one the debate. Ryan got his backside handed to him, and I always thought that smiling at someone rather than calling them a liar is a more civilized way to deal with a bald faced liar that won't even own up to previous comments made.

@trustverify; Really Sir? That is just obscene to the vine,not your content,I did not read a word, but the length. Sometimes we need a bit longer post, but that is just ridiculous. These are called posts sir not novels.lol Sorry for digression,coudnt help myself. I read your post often,but not this one.

Thats it GOP/TP = American Taliban you have gotten the most votes you are going to get, You fell short, you shot your load, You over shot the runway Like McCain has done many times. The American Voters see thru your B.S. and Hatred. They see that you are bought and paid for by the wealthy elite conducted by Koch/Rove Drug Cartel. Your a$$es are in for an overdue a$$whuppin come November

Vote Obama/Biden your middleclass way of life depends on it

He knows he has no right to impose his beliefs on others.

Again, abortion has nothing to do with a person's beliefs. It's a moral issue, not a belief issue.

If Biden morally thinks its okay for a person to kill another person then so be it.

Biden thinks he has no right to tell a person not to kill another person.

If Biden was witnessing a murder would he try to stop it? I would think so but according to his logic he has no right to try to stop it.

You see, just because a living being hasn't gone through a birth canal doesn't mean they are worthless.

Lyan was drinking a lot of water, because he was running a "MARATHON" at the same time he was in the debate and he did it in 3 hours again.......

Somebody get Mittens an atlas, stat!!

De Nile is in Egypt, not Libya.

Kannin,

"Biden's asinine grinning and laughter even while the most serious subjects were being addressed was creepy!"

Joe Biden was smiling and laughing simply because he could not believe the stupidity of some of Ryan's remarks. He was quite astounded. Haven't you ever heard someone say something so utterly stupid that you just could not help bursting out laughing? That was Joe Biden last night. He was just being himself.

I just have to laugh at you all. No one is going to pursuade anyone with these posts. The stuff posted on these articles is worse that what is coming out of the politicians mouths! Both sides are playing you all. It's kind of funny reading the posts after the last debate and after this debate. All the dems were saying Obama did fine, and of course he got his plate cleaned. Which he even admitted. Then all the repubs are saying Ryan didn't get beat by Biden when it was clear he did. It really doesn't matter who one in either debate. What matters is who demostrates their knowledge of the current situations we are in and what they are going to do about it. Then it's up to us to read through all their bs. If anyone is pursuaded by posts on these articles I hope they don't vote, because all these posts are bs, on both sides.

JERSY GIRL 1 Comment collapsed by the community

Ana, we certainly know now that Obama isn't qualifed to handle foreign affairs.

Oh, "we" do? Well tell "us", Jersy Girl, to how many Middle Eastern countries have you been? Have you ever been to any U.S. embassy anywhere?

What qualifies you as an expert on foreign affairs? Do you believe Obama's predecessor, George W. Bush, did a better job of handling our foreign relations?

It gets very old reading the opinions of the completely clueless and uninformed, always with an anti-Obama agenda. If you don't know what you're talking about, please save us all the time of reading a worthless slur.

Quite franky, my dear, I find it difficult to trust the opinion of someone who can't spell her own name.

Jimmy,Jo Ann et al, on abortion. You have the right to believe what you believe. I have that same right.

When I declare as pro-choice, I am preserving your rights and mine. When you declare as pro-life, you are preserving your rights but you are denying mine. That's not the way this country works.

Biden said last night that his beliefs lead him to have his convictions. But he also said that he believes he does not have the right to impose his beliefsonothers. He is absolutely right.

Bob's math is almost as good as Romney/Ryan's.

71 BPM is 1000 times more than 53 BPM.

Same kind of Republican math that can cut taxes 20%, be revenue neutral and somehow increase the economy( Trickle down (Laugher curve), has been proven over the last 30 years, to be a giveaway to the rich without an added boost to the economy.)

Liars like Ryan and Vomitt will always lose debates. As bad as Obama's performance was on points he still won that debate. All the fluff people make out about debates is silly. Debates are not won by telling lies and Both Obma and Biden won easily as their opponents eithe lied or said they did not know how they were gonna fix America. Only people happy with this latest anti Obama witch hunt are the people who committed the crime. So now the republican have another ally and thats AlQueda. Wondder which of their ads are paid for by AlQueda....

fielden - I believe Ryan said last night that he was pro-life except in cases of rape, incest and the life of the mother. Neither Ryan or Romney has said that they would over turn Roe v Wade. Roe v Wade is settled law and will not be over turned no matter who is elected President. I believe the last poll I saw, a few years ago, that a majority of people support abortion in cases of rape, incest or save the life of the mother. A lot of pro-choice people believe abortions should be a right regardless of the cause of pregnancy.

BTW, Biden voted to over turn Roe v Wade, so does that mean he is a flip-floper?

As Biden massacred lyin Ryan I thought well at least the right wing trolls will get a little overtime trying to spin this one. I was right.

Again, abortion has nothing to do with a person's beliefs. It's a moral issue, not a belief issue.

Beliefs v. morals? What exactly is the distinction?

Abortion is a LEGAL RIGHT in the U.S. and has been since 1972 (you have heard of Roe v. Wade?)

Abortion is not mentioned in the Ten Commandments, for those of Judeo-Christian persuasion.

If Biden morally thinks its okay for a person to kill another person then so be it.

Biden thinks he has no right to tell a person not to kill another person.

I'm confused by your misrepresentation of what Vice President Biden said regarding the issue of abortion.

If Biden was witnessing a murder would he try to stop it? I would think so but according to his logic he has no right to try to stop it.

You see, just because a living being hasn't gone through a birth canal doesn't mean they are worthless.

You see, just because an egg is fertilized does not make it a living, breathing human being. Do you know the percentage of fertilized eggs that never attach to the uterine wall? Can a fertilized egg survive outside the uterus? Do you know the percentage of pregnancies that end in miscarriage? Are all those miscarried fetuses named and given funerals?

Does a woman's body belong to her, or to the state?

If you want to live in a society where a woman is nothing more than a breeding animal, I suggest you move to Saudi Arabia. You'd love it there.

@fiesty dead head...see you got a new logo....you'll need another one after November 6th.

@Jody,Iowa..That campaign button is only good for a few more weeks. Your Messaih will dry up and blow away like Iowa corn.

To the poster way back that denigrated Romney's religion...Obama sat in church 20 years and never realized Wright was a racist and full of hate for America? Was he comatose, a liar, or just plain stupid?

I know this is in reponse to comments way up there, but...anyone who believes presidential policy has ANYTHING to do with oil prices is honestly too misinformed to participate in this, or any other such discussions (and this is as true for Bush as it is Obama). Yours is a fabricated world woven by the mainstream media and we have no time for your flock mentality

@fielden

Jimmy,Jo Ann et al, on abortion. You have the right to believe what you believe. I have that same right.

You can believe what you want too of course... like believing the earth is in the center of the solar system or that gay people are less equal than straight people (both of which are nonsense!). What does science have to do to prove that fetuses are living human organisms?

You clowns on the left think Drunk Joe's behavior is acceptable? Why am I not surprised. It is the same way you lefty libs argue on these boards. Insult, try and act like you are laughing in peoples faces and make up a bunch of lies. Actually start yelling your lies because that makes it more effective. I didnt know so many of you read Saul Alinskys methods for socialists. If you hate this country so much why dont you make like a tree and get outta here.

And please save your "well, if we were only allowed to use the resources in the US" nonsense as well.

The Keystone pipeline will bring not a single American a single ounce of cheaper energy. It's not just about the availability of resources, it's about EROEI.

Irish - Coming from a non-lib...the second word in your post...too ironic.

sfcret

fielden - I believe Ryan said last night that he was pro-life except in cases of rape, incest and the life of the mother. Neither Ryan or Romney has said that they would over turn Roe v Wade. Roe v Wade is settled law and will not be over turned no matter who is elected President.

What astounding naivete! How generous of R/R to allow a woman who has been RAPED or is going to DIE, or a girl who has been impregnated by her own father, to terminate the pregnancy!

Overturning Roe v. Wade is exactly what they plan to do! Are you blind?? If they would ONLY allow abortion under rape, incest, or to save the life of the mother, that is the end of abortion as defined by Roe v. Wade.

Are you really so naive that you think Roe v. Wade could never be overturned? It was decided by the Supreme Court, and if new conservative justices are appointed, it could very well be overturned. Women would have no recourse but to return to the days of coathangers, backrooms and alleys.

I believe the last poll I saw, a few years ago, that a majority of people support abortion in cases of rape, incest or save the life of the mother. A lot of pro-choice people believe abortions should be a right regardless of the cause of pregnancy.

ALL pro-choice people believe abortion is a woman's right!

BTW, Biden voted to over turn Roe v Wade, so does that mean he is a flip-floper?

I will have to insist you cite a source for that statement. Considering how far out in left field you are on this issue, you cannot seriously expect anyone to buy that.

Beliefs v. morals? What exactly is the distinction?

Belief is something you believe in from a written document. For example, you believe in what you have read. Christians believe in the Bible, Muslims believe in the Koran, etc.

Morals is something you know is right or wrong. It comes from the heart, a very caring attitude.

People can have beliefs and morals. In a perfect world everyone should have beliefs and morals. But this is not a perfect world, everyone does not have beliefs and morals. Everyone should have morals though.

Jersy girl 1

The Liberals want less security and more Benghazi.

Less security less, but they are arrogant enough to think that Benghazi won't happen to them.

They are going on 3 weeks still denying things, misdirecting, and pointing fingers.

This is what happens when a political storyboard (narrative) runs your decisions. We have to live in the real world and make decisions based on what is really going on, not what we want to happen.

Mitt “the windsock” Romney is like a sleazy used car salesman saying to the American people “oh don’t worry about that, the tire is only flat on one side”. This guy will say anything to get elected; he is the most dishonest politician I’ve ever seen. ALL politicians twist the truth a little, Romney strangles it until its dead............... Romney can not be trusted!

Jo Ann #'s, you cannot legislate morality. It is as simple as that. Prohibition was an effort to legislate morality; the result was underground alcohol, the black market, speak easys and the liquor flowed regardless. Why do you think that making abortion illegal will make abortion disappear? It will not. Instead women end up as before Roe V Wade, in back alley abortions performed by quacks. Your belief, and it is a belief, is your right but you do NOT have the right to impose your morals and/or beliefs on everyone else. I am pro-choice because I do not believe I have a right to tell another woman what she should do for the simple reason that I do not know her reasons or her circumstances. Morality cannot be legislated.

You see, just because an egg is fertilized does not make it a living, breathing human being.

I'm not talking about a fertilized egg. I'm talking about a fetus with a beating heart and who is receiving oxygen through the umbilical cord of the mother.

The fetus is living with the help of a beating heart, receiving oxygen and producing waste. You know, things that you and I have and do.

Abortions happen to a fetus, not a fertilized egg.

Jimmy -2776696

It doesn't matter what anyone believes about abortion, whether it is a religious belief or political one. The government has no business being involved. We own our bodies or we are not free. A woman owns her body and everything in it as she is a soverign entity just like all people are.

What has never been properly acknowledged throughout history is that people need to mind their own business and we'd be fine.

The Republican theme that they are for personal freedom and responsibility is all bullcrap. For Christ's sake, they want to shove a probe up into a Vagina against anyone's will or advice. That party has gone insane. The only real Conservative we've had in my lifetime is Eisenhower. All the rest are connected or working for the COMPANY STORE.

And Red_Cloud thinks he's cool since he likes the Big Lebowski...

It's all good man :)

And the Vatican is corrupt...I can write a book about it probably haha

Kaybee - All you have to do is google "Biden's vote to overturn Roe v Wade, there are several references. If you can't find it let me know and I will give you the link.

BTW, the majority of Americans DO NOT believe in abortion on demand. Even Roe v Wade has exceptions.

B White

He was given his private school until college. In college he borrowed the money from his dad and paid his dad back. There are thousands of kids that do this. This is what the smart wealthy do. They understand that getting a $120,00 - $100,000 loan without a guarrenteed job is unwise.

I think your post is ridiculous.

DBAkron

A Reuters reporter in Benghazi reported he interviewed protesters and they claimed violence broke out at the protest. This journalist, Hadeel Al-Shalchi also interviewed Libyan security personnel who claimed that some other security personnel, sympathetic to the protesters, allowed them to get too close to the Consulate.

Once gunshots were fired, the crowd dispersed leaving armed men behind. Some of the protesters were said to have returned to their homes where they got their weapons and returned to the Consulate to aid in the attack.

This report was aired on NPR on Sept 13th which is where I heard it. Reuters carried stories for almost a week that continued this story line.

I consider this a conflicting report to others that said there was no protest an hour before the attack. According to report I cite above, the protest lasted only a few minutes before the attack began.

Was this report fabricated by the Reuters reporter? Is there some truth in it? Is the report of no protest an hour before consistent with this report of a protest lasting only minutes? Yes it is.

This is why we must wait for the FBI report before jumping to conclusions.

I realize Romney wants to use this to his advantage, but he and other supporters spew a one-sided, inaccurate version of events for their own political advantage. Four are dead and Romney just pushes his version of this unfortunate event.

Romney is a political opportunist who understands little of how diplomacy and foreign policy function in the real world.

@ Jody, Iowa

I am not in favor of making abortion illegal.

What I'm saying is that Biden should lead morally, not with his beliefs.

Another thing I want to point out. If a woman doesn't want a child then protection should be used at all times. The same goes for a man, he should use protection too. Don't lay the responsibility on the woman either. It's not right. The man has responsibilities too.

We are living in 2012, there is no such thing as an accident and I don't want to hear "well women still get pregnant on the pill" crap.

AnaBanana

And you think a laughing hyena is qualified? I've worked with people outside this country. You'd be better of if you said he was drunk!

Chuck in Olathe

Between the rude smirks and laughs - and the out-right lies about not being told about security requests from our embassy I came away with the notion that the mistake that was made in 2008 was much, much worse than we thought.

And Biden was righ. He was not told about the request. And the request was for added security was for the EMBASSY in Tripoli, and NOT for the consulate in Benghazi that was attacked. Beefing up security in Tripoli wouldn't have done anything to prevent the attack in Benghazi. Paul Ryan seemed befuddled about the difference between an embassy and a consulate during the debate, so you're not alone in your cluelessness.

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/10/12/white_house_obama_and_biden_were_never_aware_of_requests_for_more_benghazi_security

At Thursday night's debate, Rep. Paul Ryan seemed to suggest that the requests were for Marines to go to Libya, which was not the case. The requests were to extend the tours of a Mobile Security Detachments [MSD] and the Site Security Team [SST] at the U.S. embassy in Tripoli, which are teams of military personnel, not Marines, who can help protect an embassy and its personnel.

Speaking of abortion, it seems to me that "republicans only care about babies from conception to birth, after that they are on their own".

As for the claim the Republicans make about America being a Christian nation.

"If you don't want tax dollars helping the sick and the poor, then its time to stop saying you want a government based on CHRISTIAN VALUES"

John Fugelsang

tunde -- the day obama signed the legislation extending the bush tax cuts for all is the day they became the obama tax cuts. so, lets not blame bush anymore. if obama was the leader that he had advertised in his first campaign for president we would not be where we are today. he would have demonstrated this wonderful intelligence every assumes he possesses to work out a bipartisan agreement -- that is when both sides get together and talk it out

the challenge for obama is that he has not yet figured out that he is not a ruler with absolute power and that he must work with the democrat senate and the republican house if he expects to get anything done. complaining that the republicans won't discuss issues with him is no more than tremendous weakness on his part.

have a nice weekend.

billybob,

Republicans vowed on Jan 21 2009, to oppose everything Obama put forward, even if it was once a republican idea originally. Obama tried to work with them and they spit on every proposal.

Fiesty has been sleeping in ever since the Presidential debate. Are they still paying full freight for your services?

are you willing to die for 'a nuclear free' Iran?

Yes, actually I am, I am willing to die if it means for a greater cause. If Iran has a nuke, then hezbollah has a nuke, and I would rather not have nuclear weapons in the hands of terrorists.

The assertion that the White House was in the dark for days regarding the circumstances surrounding the first murder in 33 years of a US ambassador is incredible, not believable and ludicrous. Stop drop and roll Joey. Your pants are going up in flames.

Even if the White House was so incredibly incompetent they didn't know the truth, where is the outrage for being mislead by the "intelligence community", Joey?

"The buck stops anywhere but here!" -Husein O'bama

People can have beliefs and morals. In a perfect world everyone should have beliefs and morals. But this is not a perfect world, everyone does not have beliefs and morals. Everyone should have morals though.

Let me pose a question. If you had to choose between belief in god or the truth, which would you choose?

Abortions happen to a fetus, not a fertilized egg.

A fetus cannot exist outside the womb until a certain point in gestation, and abortion is restricted long before that point except in extreme cases.

We are living in 2012, there is no such thing as an accident and I don't want to hear "well women still get pregnant on the pill" crap.

Sorry, but women DO get pregnant on the Pill. It does not have a 100% success rate.

Birth control pills (both combination and progestin-only) and other prescription options such as The Patch and The NuvaRing tend to have a high typical user success rates of around 92 percent.

http://contraception.about.com/od/birthcontroldecisions/p/effectiveness.htm

Biden does lead morally. He has his personal beliefs and would not impose them on others who believe differently. He would not force a woman to bear a child.

John,

"Even if the White House was so incredibly incompetent they didn't know the truth, where is the outrage for being mislead by the "intelligence community", Joey?"

Where is the outrage for House Republicans having slashed the hell out the funding for embassy security in the first place? Guards don't work for nothing, you know! And Hillary Clinton warned them last year that a cut in funding would have bad consequences for national security, but they just ignored her.

Remember
January 3rd 2007..

The day the
democrats took over was not January 22nd 2009 it was actually January 3rd 2007
the day the Democrats took over the House of Representatives and the Senate,
the start of the 110th Congress. The Democratic Party controlled a majority in
both chambers for the first time since the end of the 103rd Congress in 1995.

For those
who are listening to the liberals propagating the fallacy that everything is
"Bush's Fault", think about this:

January
3rd, 2007 was the day the Democrats took over the Senate and the Congress:

At the
time:

The DOW
Jones closed at 12,621.77

The GDP for
the previous quarter was 3.5%

The
Unemployment rate was 4.6%

George
Bush's Economic policies SET A RECORD of 52 STRAIGHT MONTHS of JOB CREATION!

Remember
the day...

January
3rd, 2007 was the day that Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services
Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking Committee.

The
economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the
economy?

BANKING AND
FINANCIAL SERVICES!!!

THANK YOU
DEMOCRATS for taking us from 13,000 DOW, 3.5 GDP and 4.6% Unemployment... to
this CRISIS by (among MANY other things) dumping 5-6 TRILLION Dollars of toxic
loans on the economy from YOUR Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac FIASCOS! (BTW: Bush
asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie - starting in 2001 because
it was financially risky for the US economy).

And who
took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND Freddie Mac????

OBAMA

And who
fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie???

OBAMA and
the Democratic Congress

So when
some one tries to blame Bush...

REMEMBER JANUARY 3rd, 2007.... THE DAY THE DEMOCRATS
TOOK OVER!" Bush may have been in the car but the Democrats were in charge
of the gas pedal and steering wheel they were driving.

Mickey - You are full of crap. The State Department has stated that funding for security had nothing to do with denying requests for more security. Fact Check it and you will see that it was a bogus claim by Democrats in Congress that cuts in funds was responsible. Further if you are talking about the cuts being thrown around there were 149 Democrats and 147 Republicans who voted for the cuts. Also Charlene Lamb, of the State Department, stated in Congressional hearings that the State Department felt security was adequate.

So quit trying to spin the subject and spouting the left wing talking points. This was strictly the failure of the Obama Administration and a lack of LEADERSHIP at the high levels of government. BTW, even Biden said last night that Obama and him didn't know about the request for additional security, so why didn't they, since the WH would have been immediately informed about any attack on one of our Embassies & Consulates. What does Obama do after being notified, goes to a fund raiser in Las Vegas.

Mickey-1983943

John,

"Even if the White House was so incredibly incompetent they didn't know the truth, where is the outrage for being mislead by the "intelligence community", Joey?"

Where is the outrage for House Republicans having slashed the hell out the funding for embassy security in the first place? Guards don't work for nothing, you know! And Hillary Clinton warned them last year that a cut in funding would have bad consequences for national security, but they just ignored her.

Nice try. Not really. We all know the State Dept. is in the Exec. Branch and the WH's responsibility for staffing and security. Obama has ample discretionary funding abilities. (See Solyndra).

Let me pose a question. If you had to choose between belief in god or the truth, which would you choose?

This wording reminds me of a lib poll question hehe

sfcret and john,

Did you guys read my post #1.99? Hillary Clinton did not think the funding was adequate.

Shaak

There were also reports that gunfire started without any protestors present. I don't think it really matters much whether there was a protest or not. The point is it was a planned 911 terrorist attack that we were not prepared for. When Bush was in office the outposts were put on high alert and added extra on duty personnel.

Mickey

You are missing the point. They did not go to congress and tell congress that they were getting requests for more security forces. Being Libya was not undergoing a lot of unrest, just like Egypt, that should have been ample reason to request more funding. And if they didn't want to ask more funding, pull our people out, just like other countries like Great Britain had alreay done.

This is all just a bunch of malarkey and stuff!

Mickey - Again with the BS, so Hillary LAST YEAR mentioned she did not think the funding was adequate. I don't know of any government department that doesn't want more money. However, the State Department (Charlene Lamb) just a few days ago (not last year) said security was adequate.

If Hillary didn't think the funding was sufficient LAST YEAR why in the hell is she assigning people to areas without adequate funding. She could have used other funds if necessary, the Budget for the State Department is over 50 Billion dollars and you are crying over less than 300 million cut.

Why didn't Hillary provide the funds when the Ambassador's security personnel requested them, why didn't she order the Ambassador out of the area, especially after numerous other attacks previously, the British closed down around two months ago because of security reasons.

Imagine Joe Biden as President.

Would he laugh off and smirk to the other Leaders of Countries during a real crisis? Throwing his hands up in the air---where did this come from---does he have a Personality Disorder, a crass sense of being rude, or does he really believe what he says.

Vote with your head, not your heart.

He is truly a lightweight; Obama must be cringing---he waited too long to replace him for a new VP; "the likes of a Hillary Clinton". Hillary Clinton has quick reaction, and can debate. Joe? He's just a front man for Obama.

My sympathy to Obama; you should have reacted earlier.

Which political party voted to cut security funding for our Libyan embassy since January, 2011? The Republican Party did:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/10/jason-chaffetz-embassy_n_1954912.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

Given that Romney was spouting-off information about the Libya attack that had not yet been released to the media within just a few hours of the attack, perhaps Romney is guilty of some inside involvement in or knowledge of the embassy attack, an attack which was given a far-greater chance of success when Romney's own political party voted to cut embassy security funding within the same term of Congress that the attack occurred.

It is hard to believe all of the Republican finger-pointing since the attack, considering that it is largely the Republican Party's fault that the attack was successful, and only a minor piece of the blame can be laid on a failure to immediately step-up our security presence there following the ambassador's request.

It just makes you wonder if the Republican Party would resort to murdering an ambassador and his staff trying to win back the White House?

I cant wait for Hillary to come out swinging and throw Biden and Obama under the bus! You think she is going to let them try to throw HER under the bus? Think again!

I still remember the look of HORROR on Hillary's face when they announced it. She KNEW...they ALL KNEW!

Now they want to cover it up!

SHAME SHAME SHAME!

Gotta go work on my protest banner........the next debate is across the street from my office!

16 TRILLION in DEBT

12.1 MILLION unemployed

Watching Barry and Michelle packing up the white house....

PRICELESS!

Mickey-1983943
sfcret and john,

Did you guys read my post #1.99? Hillary Clinton did not think the funding was adequate.

When has a bureaucrat said funding was adequate? The State Dept. budget keeps increasing.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/state.pdf

No, Biden is a better person for realizing that his religious beliefs shouldn't be imposed on others who may have different religious beliefs.

Joe better check his bible…

Romans 1:32

New King James Version (NKJV)

³² who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

Romans 12:2

New King James Version (NKJV)

² And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Isaiah 5:20

New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁰ Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Ephesians 5 ⁷ Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Philippians 1 ²⁷ Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel

Philippians 2 ⁴ Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.

But I guess its between God and Joe.

Joe Biden proved two things last night. First; The current administration has no ability or desire to lead in a bi-partisan fashion. This is required of all Presidential administrations period.

Number two; Joe Biden should be the poster child for Congressional term limits...37 years of drawing a paycheck and little else.

Next

Feisty Fishsmell Redhead, you don't need to worry about abortion. Nobody could get through your stinch for you to worry about that situation.

Your such a tough bitch behind that computer aren't you. Phucking pig.

Nobody has stated the obvious. Romney expects that the president be involved in every decision - and he criticizes Obama for claiming that he was not involved in a staffing decision.

Can anyone say micromanager? Romney now admits that he expects the president (himself) to make every decision in the administrative branch of the US Government. Anyone remember the Carter Administration - where Carter only wanted to make all the important decisions (not even as low as staffing decisions)?

What will a Romney administration look like when Mitt will insist on making every decision? Geez - he will need to make about 15 million decisions every day - fat chance that he will be making informed decisions... And this is what he promises if elected.

LOL repubes are getting really worried. let it be known Obama will be our next President. take that to the damn bank, fk all you repubes and teatards

The real worry is the folks so inured to death that they pass it off as nothing. The other big worry is that they vote for the same sorry excuse for a president, despite all the facts in evidence.

So sorry, but the death of an American ambassador and three other Americans is a BIG deal. Too bad Obama supporters have no apparent respect for human life, anything to support Obama, even if it means pretending the terrorist attacks in Benghazi were a result of a video, even if it means ignoring the lies coming out of the White House, lies promulgated and persisted in even AFTER the facts were in.

Obama lies and covers up the fact that people died and pretending otherwise is pathetic. You want four more years of lies? Hell, the road to hell is paved with partisan twits who don't care about irresponsibility and lies and cover-ups. The Obama supporters spend hours bashing Bush and making excuses for Obama.

Hillary Clinton came out today and stated that the attacks in Benghazi were TERROR ATTACKS! My goodness, Clinton can say that and yet Biden and Obama are still pretending it was a video or else that they had their fingers in their ears and weren't listening to the intel. Now, Biden just threw the intelligence community under the bus, bad intelligence community, I didn't pay attention. Obama flies off to Vegas, he is so upset on hearing about the death of Stevens that he has to succour his grief by fund raising with Beyonce and JayZ and Letterman and the 'women' of the View.

You all want a professional fundraiser as president, have at it. He looked bored as hell when he stood in front of four draped coffins, he mouthed some words and basically wandered off to go fund raise and campaign somemore.

Dead Mexicans, dead Border Patrol, dead Ambassador....all those 'bumps' in Obama's 'presidency.' Annoying to have to attend to foreign affairs and national security, far more important to fund raise and tell lies about videos.

interested observer,

"Nobody has stated the obvious. Romney expects that the president be involved in every decision - and he criticizes Obama for claiming that he was not involved in a staffing decision."

Yes, that's like expecting the CEO of a large corporation to know every time an employee gets up to go to the bathroom.

@ houston;

You can pretend that Crazy Uncle Joe and Barry the Empty Podium weren't told about the need for security, the requests for more security (two separate concepts) - and it might be believeable when you take into account that Barry doesn't attend security update meetings - yet ignorance would not be an adequate excuse for POTUS.

It might be believable except that this was 9/11, this was Syria, this was a subject of grave concerns on quiet days - and it might be believable except that the administration from POTUS down to the Press Secretary have been lying their behinds off.

Wake the hell up, take off the blinders, shut off CNN and pull your head out of the sand. The ability to deny fact, the level of tunnel vision required to ignore fact and common sense that the average must posses is astounding.

Looks like Joe put that little brown eye worm in his place, let the show go on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chuck in Olathe,

"yet ignorance would not be an adequate excuse for POTUS."

Unless he was a Republican, of course. :)

Glad we protected Barbados.... if we loose the beach, where will Barry go on vacation?

Good old Joe Biden still attempting to defend the indefensible. Well, you gotta give him some points for persistence, however irrational.

I'm still chuckling over his antics during the debate. It seems the only thing he missed was that he should have shown up wearing a court jester's hat and hand puppets.

it would have been more appropriate for him.

So, when Hank Paulson, the Secretary of the Treasury and past CEO of Goldman Sachs, asked for and received blanket immunity from all future prosecution from the Congress of the United States when the TARP Bailout Proposal went to Capitol Hill in October 2008, that is OK? George Bush and Secretary Paulson immediately transferred $350 Billion Dollars to Goldman Sachs and AIG, and to this day, that first $350 Billion is unaccounted for, period. Find the money and become a hero. Bush left one big pile of horse pucks when he left office, and the American Taxpayers are still covering his butt. Ask yourself why Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Tenet, etc. were not invited to the Republican National Convention in Tampa. Sort of like asking the Moderator at a Debate to call you Mr. Ryan and not Congressman Ryan.

It must be ok.

Say where's John COrzine?

Dude lost $60 billion trading and "misplaced" $1.5 billion of customer savings accounts.

Dodd-Frank?

Lets blame Bush again. Oh how the lefties forget that Democrats are partly to blame for the great recession as their favorite POTUS, Clinton was the one who told regulators to lower lending requirements to qualify more people to be able to buy houses. This cause people to get loans they should not have gotten and lead to the risky bank behaviors that lead to the collapse of the housing market. Democrats were pushing for this and they got it then they sat back while it all blew up all the time claiming that Fannie and Freddie weren't in trouble. If you think the GOP is solely responsible for the economic collapse we suffered you are obviously living in a fantasy world.

Lets talk about the 90 billion obama gave to green energy as kick backs and how much of that money we recovered. We still have money that has not been paid back to the treasury. Oh and then there are the union exemptions given under the heatlh care law as payback to Obama's union friends. There is so much corruption under this administration. IT is hillarious how the left turns a blind eye to it.

Terry - Again with the deflection from the actual topic of this discussion. BTW, Biden and Obama both voted for TARP and knew exactly where the money was going, in fact Obama asked Bush to not spend half of the TARP money so he could when assuming the Presidency.

Terry - But do try and stay on subject.

Republicans never seem to take responsibility for the results of their policies. The economy tanked after two terms of Bush, the deficit ballooned as Rep Ryan voted to put two wars and the Bush tax cuts on a credit card, and Republicans want another shot at destroying American prosperity? The least they can do is wait for Obama to finish cleaning up after the last mess Republicans left us.

Amy

I find it funny how you ignored every point I made so I will say it again. The biggest contributing factor to the economic collapse was the collapse of the housing market which was partially caused by Democrat policies. Also, in case you were not aware of this when the Bush tax cuts were passed for everyone the economy grew and revenue to the treasury increased because of growth, unemployment was in check and there was consistent job growth until the housing market collapse. Then you get a Democrat congress only concerned with passing health care. so they focus on that rather than jobs. In fact by taking over student lending Pelosi and Co put people out of work in that industry. They never passed a budget in the Senate which they could have because reconcilliation did not require a fillibuster proof majority and the reason reconcillation was created was to deal with budget resolutions. The Democrat party wanted to have thing their way, they did not want to work with Republicans in either branch of the government, so instead of getting anything done besides the awful heatlh care bill they sat back and blamed the GOP for everything. Which is hillarious considering Pelosi and Read has the ability to pass a budget, they just knew the American people would be furious with trillions more in spending and no way to pay for it. Oh and lets not forget that Biden and many Democrats supported the spending that was done during the Bush administration and voted for those policies.

blg and sfcret

I remember Democrats being accused of "cutting and running" when they wanted to tell Iraqis there was a limit to how long we would stay.

Republicans claimed giving Iraqis a date certain for our withdrawl was giving the enemy an edge. McCain said we might stay in Iraq "a hundred years." Turns out the Democrats' approach was right: we told the Iraqis to take responsibilty for their own security, just as President Obama and VP Biden are telling the Afghans to prepare for our departure.

Instead of making up your own version of the causes and responses to the economic collapse, why don't you try reading the many books on the lack of oversight on Wall Street, the Republican aversion to regulation, and their blind faith in the "job creators" who have failed to create jobs? The Republican ideology has been discredited by serious students of economic history.

We can say that Joe gave Lyin Ryan a good old fashion bitch slapping. Hey Willard, you are next.

Amy

Do you deny that Clinton was responsible for pushing less regulation in the lending market? This is an established fact and he and Democrats in Congress supported legislation that brought about the beginnings of the housing collapse many years later. The lessening of lending requirements and regulation is what lead to this mess. It could have been avoided. The fact that Dodd and some of his lefty friends had a change of heart after their buddies in Countrywide had made millions from these risky type of loans doesn't negate the fact that the Dems were knee deep in the mortgage mess and even profitted from it. Both parties are responsible for what happened to our economy and after 4 years of seeing the bad Democrat solutions to it I as an independent want to give the GOP another shot!

Blaming Clinton for the economic collapse of 2008? Really? Clinton left a surplus and a reasonable tax rate for millionaires.

And you whine that Democrats blame unfairly Bush, the guy who put two wars and a masive tax cut on a credit card?

Ps

Republicans have had a super majority in the House for the last two years. Name one thing they have done to improve the economy. Name one thing they have done at all!

( Besides attempting to destroy our credit rating.)

Pausing for a side note...

The article mentioned Stephanie Cutter, who is really beginning to grate on my nerves.

WAY too shrill. Not a fan.

Amy - The date certain, 31 Dec 11, was set by President Bush in 2008, in the SOFA. Obama tried to change the date certain to allow the stationing of American Troops in Iraq past the 31 Dec 11 deadline. The Iraqi government denied the amendment to the SOFA signed by Bush.

Amy

I believe I said both Republicans and Democrats were to blame. The seeds were sewn back during the Clinton admin when they lessened regulation on the lending market. The housing bust did not happen over night it took years for it to happen. Also, Clinton had a GOP majority that forced him to balance the budget and he gave us the highest tax increases in history both on the wealthy and the middle class in order to do it. We could likelly make a dent in the massive debt Obama has run up if he would let tax cuts expire for all. I mean it worked for Clinton didn't it??? Oh wait he had a tech boom during that period that greatly added to the number of jobs that were created. The economy was in a slow down when Bush first took office and the bi-partisian tax cuts were passed lead to growth and lower unemployment. President Obama and Democrats jeopardized our credit rating with their 6 TRILLION in new debt and massive deficits. Getting spending under control is one of the things the ratings agencies say is needed. If we continue to spend the way we are the country will go broke and increases taxes on small businesses and millionares will not close the gap in the deficit!! This is numerical fact!

Amy,

Does anybody think there would be no American deaths anywhere in the world during a Romney administration? Like, Mitt Romney gets elected and terrorists stop targeting American tourists, soldiers, aide workers and diplomats? Yeah, Daddy Mitt would keep us safer than the guy who (finally) executed Osama bin Laden.

What does this have to do with the price of fish.

Hey Repuptards lets forget about our troops and go with this Lybia nonsense

dal -- you mean the Libya nonsense in which 4 Americans were murdered?

After bush/cheney cut and ran away from Afghanistan, even claiming to not be looking for OBL anymore, the decided to camp in Iraq. They refused to give a timeline for departure even many long years after declaring "mission accomplished".

As Joe Biden correctly pointed out to the kid last night, you have to set a due date in order to get them to get with the program. The Iraqis wanted our Army to stay on as a police force in order to protect them from themselves. The same thing is happening in Afghanistan. They will not do anything for themselves until we leave.

We are leaving Afghanistan on schedule in 2014.

Sfcret

Republicans spin the real story on Benghazi to their advantage.

They ignore all the initial reports that said protests took place shortly before violence broke out. See Reuters for that week for supporting details.

The allegations by Romney/Ryan that White House knew about securty requests ignores division of labor present in any organization.

Budget cutbacks by House of State Sept in 2011, 2012 of $500 million in security forced State's security force level to be cut at embassies and consulates around the world.

There is a lot more to this story than you would care to admit.

For more, See Rachel Weiner Washington Post

@Amy B - You do realize that Joe Biden ALSO voted for those 2 "credit card" wars, right? If you don't believe me, take a look at your very own senate.gov website where it clearly shows Biden (D-DE) with a "Yea" vote. So, the next time good ole Joe tells you that Paul Ryan is the one that started these unfunded wars, you will be educated enough to disagree with him. Hate to be the one that points out that you are being lied to, but as a concerned American citizen, I feel like it is my duty to do it.

Shaak - First lets get one thing straight, the fact that budget cutbacks was responsible is just plain BS dreamed up by the Democrats to try and protect the incompetence of the Administration. (Fact check w/Washinton Post, if you don't believe me).

Second - The SOS and the WH WOULD be immediately informed of a terrorist attack or any other attack on an Embassy/Consulate of the U.S. Some one screwed up and we need to know the truth.

Third - There were no protests taking place prior to the attacks, that has been well documented by both written and video.

Fourth - Who in the State Department got the request for additional security and denied it. According to Charlene Lamb the State Department felt there was adequate security in place.

Quit trying to put the left wing spin on this tragedy, the Obama Administration screwed up and should never have tried to cover this up, cover ups are always worse that coming out immediately with the facts.

BTW, Reuters and the Washington post weren't on the ground and only reporting what the Administration put out.

Here is another one for you @Amy B -

"Republicans have had a super majority in the House for the last two years. Name one thing they have done to improve the economy. Name one thing they have done at all!"

I'm not sure you understand how our legislative branch of government works. All bills must be passed by the House AND the Senate, so having a super majority in the House means nothing without bipartisan support from the Senate. I noticed that you conveniently left out some important details in your post though. Or maybe you just forgot that your beloved Democrats had a majority in BOTH chambers during the first 2 years of Obama's presidency. Based on your logic of majority rule, Democrats should have had us out of this mess a couple years ago, right? I would think that since you are so adament about politicians taking responsiblity for their policies, you would be first in line to point to Obama and make him accountable for the 4 years he has been in office....but my guess is that the "Bush Blame Game" is about ready to start another round, isn't it??? Both sides have become so tired in their rhetoric...when are the masses going to wake up and realize that NEITHER side is looking out for YOUR best interests.

Man Bob must watch FOX in his sleep, he is full on drinking the Kool-Aid. I appreciate all you folks trying to reach him with common sense and logic, but it's a square peg and a round hole. He is incapable of thinking beyond what the faux channel tells him to think. A "lost cause" as it were.

Vladimir Putin would chew off Ryan's face and send it back to Romney in a sandwich bag. Can you imagine Kid Ryan trying to dominate on the international stage?

Yes I can.

As compared to Obama...yes I can!

@blg95 and others Why did people not have enough money to pay back those loans? Could it have something to do with the earnings ratio maybe? Had worker pay went up at the same rate that CEO/owner pay did. THEN THE MAJORITY WOULD HAVE HAD ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY BACK THE LOANS.

Since worker pay has been stagnant or unchanged in the last 30 years, but CEO pay has gone up by over 120%. If we took the average household income of 50k and added a 120% to it how much would that be? 110k per household. Let me guess they could have never paid back those loans? Let me guess they still need handouts from the government? Let me guess they still do not pay any federal income tax? Just admit that you do not want people to succeed, you need slave labor or else you would actually have to work.

This is what happens when you lower tax rates, let the rich keep as much as they want, and ship jobs overseas. Why is that so hard to understand? I guess the majority of Americans should not be able to afford to own their own home? They should be forced to pay you rent for their entire lives?

And who walked out of the talks was it the President or the leader of the House? It was the leader of the house and the GOP. DO NOT EVEN TRY THAT B.S. HERE. Who is on vacation as we speak until after the elections? Yeah the president is to blame... I find it funny that every time someone defends Bush they have to mention Obama, why is that? Why can you not defend Bush without mentioning Obama?

I like how you do not answer Amy's question "Name one thing they have done to improve the economy." Please explain to me what they have done or even tried to do? They have not passed a budget in over three years. Why has there not been a budget in over three years? What good have they done? I know how our government works so you will not be pushing me around. They are not doing their jobs is why. Who is on vacation getting paid? How many weeks a year do they get for vacation? Why are they not forced to be in session to earn their pay? And Mitt and Ryan want to talk about bi-partisanship...lol. How long have you been refusing to do anything bipartisan? Since Obama got elected is how long.

Canada has national healthcare that is affordable why is that, and what is so bad about Obamacare versus Romneycare? WTF is the difference, a black man does not get credit for it? Maybe you should stop calling it Obamacare then. Does Canada have insurance companies charging middleman fees for no good reason? What purpose does a middleman serve? Are doctors not the ones that provide service not an insurance company? Why pay a middleman again? How much money do we waste on insurance companies?

Sorry, but it is a numerical fact that even if we cut ALL the loopholes and deductions that would only add up to 1.1 trillion. Many Americans use those deductions to not pay any Federal income tax like many of you love to cry about. Let me guess you are going to make those lazy freeloaders "actually" pay taxes huh? If we get 1.2 trillion in revenue from taxes, by then doubling or raising the taxes on the rich by 100% it would generate over 600 billion a year since "they pay the majority of the taxes". Poor Mitt would pay a 28% effective rate instead of the 14% he gets away with now. That is the number that Ryan laughed at and said would only run the government for 98 days. Even if all deductions and loopholes are cut that can only generate 1.1 trillion? How is that going to fix or solve our problems? How can that pay off our debt? IT CANNOT. I did not even throw in the 20% across the board tax cut or about 120 billion and what that would do. How about the 600 billion or so we would lose from them getting rid of Capital Gain tax? 600 billion from the capital gain plus 120 billion or so from the 20% tax cuts puts at us only 480 billion in revenue instead of 1.2 trillion. Even if we cut every loophole and deduction we are only at 1.58 trillion in revenue and cannot pay off the debt. Raising taxes on the super rich puts us at over 1.8 trillion. Gee which plan is better and numerically adds up...

Why not just let all the tax cuts expire, raise capital gains to 35%, and get banks out of wall street, then we might be able to pay off our debt. There is no way to pay off the debt without increasing taxes, until then most of you are full of chit, and are trying any and all options left to find someway somehow to keep ALL the money you think is yours. It is only natural, but we must do what we must to survive too, so you should not be to surprized.