E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSBiden, the aggressor … His performance was therapeutic for base Democrats, but Ryan held his own. … It was Scranton Joe vs. Think Tank Ryan, heart vs. head … Both Biden and Ryan accomplished their goals … But Biden struggled on Libya … Ryan struggled on stimulus, abortion … The ball moves to Obama. His challenge – searching for Goldilocks, not too hot, not too cold. … Biden-Ryan didn’t come to blows but Berman-Sherman almost did …and things get nasty in Arizona.
With more than 40 million Tweets sent during vice presidential debate, TODAY takes a look at how viewers – and celebrities – are responding to Joe Biden's body language across the Twitterverse.
DANVILLE, Ky. -- If there was something both sides agreed on last night, it was this: Joe Biden was aggressive at last night’s vice-presidential debate. Now, Republicans thought he was too aggressive (with his interruptions, laughs, and facial expressions), and Democrats thought he was just right. After last week’s presidential debate, Biden threw the kitchen sink at both Paul Ryan and Mitt Romney -- on issues that President Obama didn't touch in Denver. He brought up Mitt Romney’s “47%” comment. “It [Romney’s opposition to the auto bailout] shouldn’t be surprising for a guy who says 47% of the American people are unwilling to take responsibility for their own lives.”
He brought up Osama bin Laden, resurrecting Romney’s 2007 line that he “wouldn’t move heaven and earth to get bin Laden." And Biden tried to score points on the issue of abortion. “I guess he accepts Gov. Romney's position now, because in the past he has argued that there was … rape and forcible rape.” More than anything, Biden's performance was therapeutic for base Democrats after Obama's dud in Denver.
Alex Wong / Getty Images
DANVILLE, KY - OCTOBER 11: U.S. Vice President Joe Biden speaks during the vice presidential debate at Centre College October 11, 2012 in Danville, Kentucky. This is the second of four debates during the presidential election season and the only debate between the vice presidential candidates before the closely-contested election November 6. (Photo by Alex Wong/Getty Images)
*** Scranton Joe vs. Think Tank Ryan: So who won? If you judge a debate on who took the fight to his opponent, who best defended his top of the ticket, and who best attacked the other side, you’d have to say it was Biden. (Indeed, by our count, Biden said “Romney” 26 times, while Ryan said “Obama” or “the president” 14 times.) If you judge a debate purely on style points, Biden might get penalized. And if you judge a debate by who best plays it safe -- especially on issue terrain that’s not your comfort zone -- then Paul Ryan scored well.
Related: Biden plays aggressor in debate as Ryan argues GOP case
That’s probably why the two insta-polls after the debate seemed to indicate a split decision. CBS’s poll of “undecideds” gave it to Biden. CNN’s poll of ALL voters went to Ryan. Both men had two different strategies: Biden was there to energize his side after last week and draw a clear contrast with his opposition, especially on issues like abortion and foreign policy. Ryan, meanwhile, was there to look competent, pass the presidential threshold test and do no harm as we head into next week’s second presidential debate.
Related: Ryan wades deep into lengthy Afghanistan argument
They both accomplished their goals but did it with two very different styles: It was Scranton Joe vs. Think Tank Ryan. Heart vs. head. And as political commentator Matthew Dowd, who worked for the Bush campaign but for Democrats before that put it on Twitter: “Heart wins.”
A glimpse over the years at U.S. Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del.
*** Fine lines: Biden needed to walk a fine line between gravitas and condescension. At times, he accomplished that; at times, he didn't. He did, however, appear more knowledgeable with one GIANT exception – Libya. When he said, stunningly, that the administration was unaware of security requests, it may have been the most significant news of the night (more on that below). Ryan needed to look presidential, and you could say he accomplished that, but he also sometimes seemed overmatched by the more aggressive Biden on foreign policy and even on SOME fiscal issues, like the stimulus. Ryan struggled to explain his letter requesting stimulus money despite criticizing the program. In all, Biden did what he needed to do – re-energize the base after the president's lackluster performance a week ago and stop the handwringing and fretting. He did that. Now, the ball moves back to the president, with a different style than Biden that has more appeal to independents and undecideds. Ryan’s job was not to blow the lead for Romney, become an unexpected problem. And he did that. Now it’s up to Romney to see if he can win two debates in a row, something he needs to do if he’s going to not just draw EVEN with the presidential in the battlegrounds, but surpass him.
*** Ryan struggled on abortion: Where Ryan struggled the most, interestingly, was on abortion. And don’t be surprised if we see Obama pick up the same attack. When moderator Martha Raddatz asked if a Romney-Ryan ticket should worry those who want abortion to remain legal, Ryan replied, “We don't think that unelected judges should make this decision; that people through their elected representatives in reaching a consensus in society through the democratic process should make this determination.” Biden pounced, “The next president will get one or two Supreme Court nominees. That's how close Roe v. Wade is. Just ask yourself, with Robert Bork being the chief adviser on the court for -- for Mr. Romney, who do you think he's likely to appoint?”
Larry Downing / Reuters
See images from throughout his career in Washington, D.C.
*** Where Biden struggled was on Libya and the Benghazi attack: “We weren't told they wanted more security,” Biden said. “And by the way at the time, we said exactly what the intelligence community told us that they knew, that was the assessment." But as NBC’s Andrea Mitchell has pointed out, the State Department DID know that requests for more security resources had been made -- and were turned down. In fact, a State Department official acknowledged that while testifying on Capitol Hill on Wednesday. Considering the timing of this debate, yesterday’s Capitol Hill hearing and the Tuesday full tick-tock of what REALLY happened in Benghazi, it’s shocking Biden didn’t have a better answer than what he said. His strategy for the debate was, give the minimum answer and move to Iraq and Afghanistan. Not sure that can work for the president.
*** Looking ahead to next week – in search of Goldilocks: The pressure is still on Obama in next week's town hall-style debate in New York. But make no mistake: Biden -- by turning his volume to 11 last night -- takes some of that pressure off the president. If you've followed Obama over the past six years, you know it's not his style to be overly aggressive. Well, Biden last night both gave Obama a roadmap for how to attack Romney-Ryan (on abortion, tax fairness, foreign policy), and he gave him room to do it in the way he feels most comfortable. The question is: Can he deliver? And can Romney deliver another solid performance? Obama is looking for a Goldilocks' performance. Obama in Denver was too cold, Biden in Danville might have been too hot, and Obama, the sequel, has to figure out how to be just the right combination of assertive without being condescending. On to Hofstra!
*** Berman vs. Sherman (literally, folks!): A lot of boxing metaphors are thrown around before and after debates. No one expects there to be a REAL fight. Of last night’s Biden-Ryan showdown, at least you can say they respected one another – enough not to come to blows, anyway. The same CAN”T be said of a debate last night between two DEMOCRATIC congressman. The L.A. Times: “The bitter race for a San Fernando Valley congressional district took a bizarre turn Thursday when Rep. Howard L. Berman (D-Valley Village) and Rep. Brad Sherman (D-Sherman Oaks) got into a near-altercation during a forum at Pierce College. Video of the event in Woodland Hills shows the candidates exchanging words and Sherman at one point putting his arm around Berman, saying: ‘Do you want to get into this?’ A uniformed officer then came onto the stage and appeared to ask that they move away from each other.” Sherman, by the way, who initiated the touching has apologized.
*** Raising Arizona: And speaking of nasty, don't miss what's happening down in the open Arizona Senate race. Rep. Jeff Flake (R) went up with an ad featuring Richard Carmona’s (D) former boss, who says Carmona angrily pounded on her door in the middle of the night, and it was Carmona. “Carmona’s not who he seems,” she says looking directly to camera. “He has issues with anger, with ethics, and with women. … Richard Carmona should never, ever be in the U.S. Senate.” Carmona responded with an ad of his own, showing pictures of his family, a former female co-worker from his SWAT team, him talking to children, and the famous picture of him rappelling from a helicopter to save a man. “When I see a career politician like Jeff Flake attacking Rich Carmona, who has spent his life helping others, it’s despicable,” the co-worker says. “Congressman Flake should be ashamed.”
*** On the trail: Fresh off of his debate performance, Ryan heads to Ohio where he’ll hit a rally with Romney in Lancaster at 5:40 pm ET… Before that, Romney campaigns in Richmond, VA at 12:10 pm ET… Meanwhile, Joe and Jill Biden stump in La Crosse, WI at 2:00 pm ET.
Countdown to 2nd presidential debate: 4 days
Countdown to 3rd presidential debate: 10 days
Countdown to Election Day: 25 days
Click here to sign up for First Read emails.
Text FIRST to 622639, to sign up for First Read alerts to your mobile phone.
Check us out on Facebook and also on Twitter. Follow us @chucktodd, @mmurraypolitics, @DomenicoNBC, @brookebrower
Leave a Comment:
Biden was smiling and laughing at everyone of you Republitards that dine on on the Romney/Ryan crap sandwiches they feed you everyday. Well done Joe.
Joe sits at a dinner table next to an Iraq vet ,his son. Romney sits at a table table next to 5 liars, his BOYS. LOL!
Biden was interpreted as being rude for his interruptions, laughing, frowns and funny faces. Rude yes, but he really couldn't help himself. It was all a reaction to the sting of the truth that Ryan was delivering to him.
What else could Biden do? We all know Joe couldn't be respectful and conduct himself as a mature VP.
Old Joe voiced several times that he wasn't get as much airtime as Ryan, when actually he had nearly 2 minutes more air than Ryan. It was Joe's fault that he chose to use valuable air time with 80 interruptions of his opponent.
Biden had to do something to waste time so he wouldn't have to defend the Obama/Biden failed first term record !
I guess the truth hurts. With ridge unemplyment #'s, deficit out of site, no transparency, stimlius jobs to nowhere, stealing 716 billion from medicate, fast and furious and the killing of an ambassador and three americans how can you ran a campaign with that kind of record. You have to remember Daffy duck and ekmer fudd have a record they can not run on unfortunately the mediator help joe bite by not critiquing there record . Who was that mediator hack she should get a new line of work.
The greater luxury for Democrats, Marco, is that they can run on Romney's record. He has two, you know ~ the positions he held yesterday and the ones he hold today. Those seem never to agree and ultimately that becomes a negative in the mind of most voters.
How is it "presidential" when Mitt Romney takes over a debate and continually interrupts but bad when Joe Biden does it??? I saw the roles reversed last night, Mitt clearly took the first debate and Joe took a page from his book and won last night. I don't understand the double standards
Joe bite me reminds of the dog commercial that's showing off his pearly white teeth. You gotta love this idiot No class.
GOP's statement, "Biden is rude and an ass" That means Ryan got his but kicked!!
The Romney/Ryan apologists were out in full force last night flooding the social media with Biden attacks before the debate even got up to speed. Shows they didn't need to listen and didn't need a debate to decide, just crib notes and cut-n-paste as fast as possible. Ryan was like the school bully and graffiti vandal who got his lecture by the principal. Overall Ryan took one for the Grifter.
Yeah, it was a technical draw for political points.
The problem with Ryan is that he is repeating what someone else has planned for him to say. He really does not get it. He bought the snake oil line and now thinks it will cure our ills.LOL...Yeah we want an economy but do not rob me romney..
Joe Biden was nothing but an EMBARRASSMENT to America last night!
I had added a few more words last night, but your description is actually better!
How was he embarrassing? just like I thought Mitt took it too POTUS, Joe took a page from Mitt's book and took it to Ryan. The debates were almost mirror images. If you claim Joe's embarrassing then you must say the same for Mitt. I think Mitt and Joe both did a heck of a job and controlled their respective debates
Biden was rude, condescending and even got aggressive and flapping his finger at the moderator. When the economy is in shambles and you are consumed with lies about Libya, this is what you do.
How ironic, Repubs love bully Chris Christie, loved it when Mitt was debating President Obama with a big smirk, and yet when it is done against them, they whine and wail.
VP Biden was great, he was passionate and down-to-earth, contrasted with the mealy-mouth scripted Ryan, Biden came across as real...which is what Americans want.
Obama/Biden 2012
Biden was rude and arrogant. Christie, though blunt, uses his plain speaking to defend himself from attack.
By being "pre-emptive", Biden just demonstrated perfectly why we do not have cooperation in Washington today.
had: You remember when Christie called the solider an "idiot"....or do you have a selective memory like most Repubs.
Many people say Mitt was rude and arrogant during the presidential debate, speaking over the moderator, shaking his finger and smirking....but Repubs love to dish it out....just can't take it....like most bullies...big babies.
Joe Biden -
the bastard child of Moe, Larry and Curly.
I kept waiting for him to finish with "yuck, yuck, yuck".
In terms of substance, the VP debate was basically a draw.
In terms of appearance, Biden followed the rude and arrogant path that has been the norm for this administration form day 1 ("GOP are enemies", "back of the bus", flase accusations without aany basis in fact from Reid, etc.).
Is it any wonder we have the kind of gridlock we do in Washington right now? Who can work WITH people who behave this way? Who would want to?
I watched both the presidential and vice presidential debates - both vastly different to say the least. Honestly, I don't understand why folks are comparing Biden's behavior to Romney's last week. Romney for the most part interrupted the moderator to finish his answers, not the POTUS, and Romney certainly didn't laugh at everything Obama said, and Obama showed Romney the same respect - they were both gentlemen, and I appreciated that a great deal.
Biden was rude, and I'm sure some of it had to do w/ the pressures from his party to be more aggressive, but I think he went about it the wrong way. It was a turnoff. Instead of deflecting the answers by laughing and attacking Romney/Ryan he should have tried to defend the current administration's record - I would've liked to have heard more explanations by Biden. I wanted to understand the reasons behind their decisions the last four years, and I wanted to hear it from Biden, not the news, internet, etc. In turn, I wanted to hear Ryan's plans, but Biden kept interrupting him. I also thought the moderator started off really strong and then had no control of the debate towards the end.
I think the debate was definitely entertaining. Both sides missed key points they could have drove home. I think Ryan looked young (honestly, who wouldn't next to Joe) but intelligent and regardless of his track record, people who don't know his track record saw a class act (that's what I'm hearing). Biden is obviously the more experienced politician, and it certainly showed, however his aggressive behavior was not presidential, and he is our second in command. It was disappointing for me to see our Veep put on such a display.
Oh well, on to the Presidential debates.
Jennifer
Your interpretation of last weeks debate is a flat out lie. Mitt and Joe literally are on the same page in terms of debating strategies. Every analysis and person sitting at home with a little sense knows that both MItt and Joe smirked, interrupted, and over-talked their opponents.
And on defense of their record...once again what debate were you watching??? When Ryan attacked the presidents stimulus package Biden through out the letter that Ryan personally wrote him asking him for stimulus funds. He defended the issue on birth control, tax cuts for the middle class, tax raise for the wealthy, ObamaCare, and continuously called Ryan out on the back and forth stances of Romney/Ryan.
Did you really watch the debate???
Biden Exposed Obama Lies During Debate
Joe...he said they are on top of everything with Foreign Affairs....
It took them two weeks to semi-acknowledge...."we thought it was the video"....stupid...incompetent...or lying...
You be the judge
When dealing with Goose stepping teabaggers, you can't be polite. Ryan reached for his water- he was getting schooled. But Biden was rude? You betcha.
O better school up Romney in the next 2 debates. Biden is the real deal, straight up. Notice Recons don't like honesty. That is the unfortunate difference between dems and R's, Dems analyze everything and consider all options.
That is not what the voting public wants, they loved W. Just a shotgun with a hair trigger. 4 years ago, we had a disaster. I'm a libertarian and I'll take the dems any day over the R's.
So I guess honesty in the D circle means being an azz,
Great Rolling Stones article on Romneys Mormonism Cult. A must read.
50% of Americans are unemployed or under-employed....Half of Americans...nothing to be laughing about Joe
Biden can be the next poster child for Tourette's syndrome ….
Pathological liars can keep a straight face while telling lies. Ryan is a pathological liar!
Republicans are pathological liars as a whole...................
Vice President Biden won this debate and is clearly a man of conscience and decency!
Actually Ryan won you should have watched it.
Joe Biden (the bastard son of Moe, Larry and Curly) - the face of truth???
God that's a scary thought.
Watched every second and determined that Ryan looks and acts like Goofy, one of my favorite Disney characters!
Love Joe Biden....................decent, truthful, full of finesses and the heart of lion!
Obama/Biden 2012 FORWARD !
Bill ~ as a true republican you demonstrate the vile indecency of your party.
Actually Ryan was a respectful young man, who was debating with a rude, cranky old man.
Biden used his rude theatrics to waste valuable air time, so he wouldn't have to talk about his and Obama's failed policies of their first term !
Actually..................dog...................YOU LIE!
DumElizabeth
Actually.......... after reading many of your post.................. YOU ARE THE MUTHA OF LIES !!!!!!!!
Wasn't aware that you were a fan.....dog...............................or a stalker maybe?
Anyway, it doesn't change the facts of the matter...........republicans are deceiving liars that will start more wars, kill our soldiers, raid social security to flush the markets for themselves and allow American citizens to go hungry ...............
Obama/Biden 2012 FORWARD !
I with Obama and Biden ... not only are they going to cut Medicare by $715 billion but they're going to STOP THE UNFUNDED Rx PLAN FOR SENIORS
I am with Obama and Biden because I am sick to death of all these Old People getting everthing. Finally someone who will stand up and tell all these Old People "you can't have it for free" You can't live forever and we're not going to go Bankrupt trying to help you hang on for another 10 years.
weezelbubb
Someday you will be an old person. The only difference between you and the current elderly is that you will still be whining.
It is not the elderly that are bankrupting the country. It is the idiots that continue to borrow just to spend, spend, spend,....
The younger generations are becoming increasingly more responsible for or debt, by their crying for entitlements that they do not deserve.
Youi and your generation do not have a clue as to how this economiy got into the fix it isin. It actually has been going on for 40 years and your wonderful pack of jackals, the DumocRATS were a major player from the begining !
Funny how the Republicans say "Biden was too aggressive and rude". awww Boo freakin hoo That from a party that say false things like, Muslim, socialist, born in Kenya. "you lie". It was a political debate, not tea time at the country club.
LOL yes Im laughing at your comment ...so rude of me
Frank --- Nice turn-around not
Not even close. Biden spanked Lying so much Lying is now called Crying Ryan! My favorite smack down is when Biden led Ryan down the stimulus path. Ryan had just said the stimulus money was a waste and did not create jobs but he still asked for the money because it would create jobs in Wisconsin. Snap, Crackle and POP! Obsessed and Fired Up since 2010. Obama/Biden 2012 Vulture/Crying 1040
Great Job Joe, your a true blue # 2
He was blue several times last night trying to laught it off..first time i ever saw a man laughting his self out of a question he had no answer for.
Bashing - Showing The Democrats True Colors
Who won? By what criteria? Here's mine.
1. Showed how to reduce the debt, in the US and globally.
2. Solved the job issue.
3. Worked for world peace. Yes, Gracie Hart lives.
4. Figured out how to work with a belligerent congress.
5. Stopped the war on women.
6. Solved the immigration issue.
And we all lived happily ever after. But, alas, neither won.
Yep Biden ol boy I believe 4 dead Americans is not a laughable matter, maybe its just your policies are laughable, pathetic loser