E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSBiden, the aggressor … His performance was therapeutic for base Democrats, but Ryan held his own. … It was Scranton Joe vs. Think Tank Ryan, heart vs. head … Both Biden and Ryan accomplished their goals … But Biden struggled on Libya … Ryan struggled on stimulus, abortion … The ball moves to Obama. His challenge – searching for Goldilocks, not too hot, not too cold. … Biden-Ryan didn’t come to blows but Berman-Sherman almost did …and things get nasty in Arizona.
With more than 40 million Tweets sent during vice presidential debate, TODAY takes a look at how viewers – and celebrities – are responding to Joe Biden's body language across the Twitterverse.
DANVILLE, Ky. -- If there was something both sides agreed on last night, it was this: Joe Biden was aggressive at last night’s vice-presidential debate. Now, Republicans thought he was too aggressive (with his interruptions, laughs, and facial expressions), and Democrats thought he was just right. After last week’s presidential debate, Biden threw the kitchen sink at both Paul Ryan and Mitt Romney -- on issues that President Obama didn't touch in Denver. He brought up Mitt Romney’s “47%” comment. “It [Romney’s opposition to the auto bailout] shouldn’t be surprising for a guy who says 47% of the American people are unwilling to take responsibility for their own lives.”
He brought up Osama bin Laden, resurrecting Romney’s 2007 line that he “wouldn’t move heaven and earth to get bin Laden." And Biden tried to score points on the issue of abortion. “I guess he accepts Gov. Romney's position now, because in the past he has argued that there was … rape and forcible rape.” More than anything, Biden's performance was therapeutic for base Democrats after Obama's dud in Denver.
Alex Wong / Getty Images
DANVILLE, KY - OCTOBER 11: U.S. Vice President Joe Biden speaks during the vice presidential debate at Centre College October 11, 2012 in Danville, Kentucky. This is the second of four debates during the presidential election season and the only debate between the vice presidential candidates before the closely-contested election November 6. (Photo by Alex Wong/Getty Images)
*** Scranton Joe vs. Think Tank Ryan: So who won? If you judge a debate on who took the fight to his opponent, who best defended his top of the ticket, and who best attacked the other side, you’d have to say it was Biden. (Indeed, by our count, Biden said “Romney” 26 times, while Ryan said “Obama” or “the president” 14 times.) If you judge a debate purely on style points, Biden might get penalized. And if you judge a debate by who best plays it safe -- especially on issue terrain that’s not your comfort zone -- then Paul Ryan scored well.
Related: Biden plays aggressor in debate as Ryan argues GOP case
That’s probably why the two insta-polls after the debate seemed to indicate a split decision. CBS’s poll of “undecideds” gave it to Biden. CNN’s poll of ALL voters went to Ryan. Both men had two different strategies: Biden was there to energize his side after last week and draw a clear contrast with his opposition, especially on issues like abortion and foreign policy. Ryan, meanwhile, was there to look competent, pass the presidential threshold test and do no harm as we head into next week’s second presidential debate.
Related: Ryan wades deep into lengthy Afghanistan argument
They both accomplished their goals but did it with two very different styles: It was Scranton Joe vs. Think Tank Ryan. Heart vs. head. And as political commentator Matthew Dowd, who worked for the Bush campaign but for Democrats before that put it on Twitter: “Heart wins.”
A glimpse over the years at U.S. Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del.
*** Fine lines: Biden needed to walk a fine line between gravitas and condescension. At times, he accomplished that; at times, he didn't. He did, however, appear more knowledgeable with one GIANT exception – Libya. When he said, stunningly, that the administration was unaware of security requests, it may have been the most significant news of the night (more on that below). Ryan needed to look presidential, and you could say he accomplished that, but he also sometimes seemed overmatched by the more aggressive Biden on foreign policy and even on SOME fiscal issues, like the stimulus. Ryan struggled to explain his letter requesting stimulus money despite criticizing the program. In all, Biden did what he needed to do – re-energize the base after the president's lackluster performance a week ago and stop the handwringing and fretting. He did that. Now, the ball moves back to the president, with a different style than Biden that has more appeal to independents and undecideds. Ryan’s job was not to blow the lead for Romney, become an unexpected problem. And he did that. Now it’s up to Romney to see if he can win two debates in a row, something he needs to do if he’s going to not just draw EVEN with the presidential in the battlegrounds, but surpass him.
*** Ryan struggled on abortion: Where Ryan struggled the most, interestingly, was on abortion. And don’t be surprised if we see Obama pick up the same attack. When moderator Martha Raddatz asked if a Romney-Ryan ticket should worry those who want abortion to remain legal, Ryan replied, “We don't think that unelected judges should make this decision; that people through their elected representatives in reaching a consensus in society through the democratic process should make this determination.” Biden pounced, “The next president will get one or two Supreme Court nominees. That's how close Roe v. Wade is. Just ask yourself, with Robert Bork being the chief adviser on the court for -- for Mr. Romney, who do you think he's likely to appoint?”
Larry Downing / Reuters
See images from throughout his career in Washington, D.C.
*** Where Biden struggled was on Libya and the Benghazi attack: “We weren't told they wanted more security,” Biden said. “And by the way at the time, we said exactly what the intelligence community told us that they knew, that was the assessment." But as NBC’s Andrea Mitchell has pointed out, the State Department DID know that requests for more security resources had been made -- and were turned down. In fact, a State Department official acknowledged that while testifying on Capitol Hill on Wednesday. Considering the timing of this debate, yesterday’s Capitol Hill hearing and the Tuesday full tick-tock of what REALLY happened in Benghazi, it’s shocking Biden didn’t have a better answer than what he said. His strategy for the debate was, give the minimum answer and move to Iraq and Afghanistan. Not sure that can work for the president.
*** Looking ahead to next week – in search of Goldilocks: The pressure is still on Obama in next week's town hall-style debate in New York. But make no mistake: Biden -- by turning his volume to 11 last night -- takes some of that pressure off the president. If you've followed Obama over the past six years, you know it's not his style to be overly aggressive. Well, Biden last night both gave Obama a roadmap for how to attack Romney-Ryan (on abortion, tax fairness, foreign policy), and he gave him room to do it in the way he feels most comfortable. The question is: Can he deliver? And can Romney deliver another solid performance? Obama is looking for a Goldilocks' performance. Obama in Denver was too cold, Biden in Danville might have been too hot, and Obama, the sequel, has to figure out how to be just the right combination of assertive without being condescending. On to Hofstra!
*** Berman vs. Sherman (literally, folks!): A lot of boxing metaphors are thrown around before and after debates. No one expects there to be a REAL fight. Of last night’s Biden-Ryan showdown, at least you can say they respected one another – enough not to come to blows, anyway. The same CAN”T be said of a debate last night between two DEMOCRATIC congressman. The L.A. Times: “The bitter race for a San Fernando Valley congressional district took a bizarre turn Thursday when Rep. Howard L. Berman (D-Valley Village) and Rep. Brad Sherman (D-Sherman Oaks) got into a near-altercation during a forum at Pierce College. Video of the event in Woodland Hills shows the candidates exchanging words and Sherman at one point putting his arm around Berman, saying: ‘Do you want to get into this?’ A uniformed officer then came onto the stage and appeared to ask that they move away from each other.” Sherman, by the way, who initiated the touching has apologized.
*** Raising Arizona: And speaking of nasty, don't miss what's happening down in the open Arizona Senate race. Rep. Jeff Flake (R) went up with an ad featuring Richard Carmona’s (D) former boss, who says Carmona angrily pounded on her door in the middle of the night, and it was Carmona. “Carmona’s not who he seems,” she says looking directly to camera. “He has issues with anger, with ethics, and with women. … Richard Carmona should never, ever be in the U.S. Senate.” Carmona responded with an ad of his own, showing pictures of his family, a former female co-worker from his SWAT team, him talking to children, and the famous picture of him rappelling from a helicopter to save a man. “When I see a career politician like Jeff Flake attacking Rich Carmona, who has spent his life helping others, it’s despicable,” the co-worker says. “Congressman Flake should be ashamed.”
*** On the trail: Fresh off of his debate performance, Ryan heads to Ohio where he’ll hit a rally with Romney in Lancaster at 5:40 pm ET… Before that, Romney campaigns in Richmond, VA at 12:10 pm ET… Meanwhile, Joe and Jill Biden stump in La Crosse, WI at 2:00 pm ET.
Countdown to 2nd presidential debate: 4 days
Countdown to 3rd presidential debate: 10 days
Countdown to Election Day: 25 days
Click here to sign up for First Read emails.
Text FIRST to 622639, to sign up for First Read alerts to your mobile phone.
Check us out on Facebook and also on Twitter. Follow us @chucktodd, @mmurraypolitics, @DomenicoNBC, @brookebrower
Leave a Comment:
Biden and Pinnocchio..................what a child beating. A good scolding will do Lyin' Ryan some good.....LMAO!
the three people who wasted their time watching this gave it to ryan because they kept thinking back to how bad obama was against a top businessman like romney...
Biden acted like a 6 year old with that silly act he put on. Ryan came to talk about serious problems and all Biden could do was laugh. I felt sorry for the VP he looked very amateurish and child like. He also interrupted Ryan 82 times which was extremely rude.
If the dems want to claim that Biden "kicked Ryan's butt" last night then, using the same guidelines, Romney completely and utterly dismantled Obama in the first debate. Notice how I was able to post something with out calling people names. You should try it sometime.
They always tell the middle class the same thing. The truth is they are out to drive us broke and broker paying for thier agenda of greed.
Ryan - Rebel without a clue. Ryan - didn't know how Social Security got in the mess it was in, basically forgot the government borrowed from it to pay it's bills many times in the past.
Democrats have 0 credibility when it comes to the results of a debate. Many of your party declared that Romney was rude and that Obama won his first debate, sadly for you, your (your, for effect) President even commented on his own performance. You take lemons and seem to somehow make gold, even when it isn't there. Romney was rude, but when Biden goes above and beyond what Romney did during his debate, he is suddenly a hero!? If you are in public denial of one thing that is obvious, do not expect your opinions to have value on another. NPR actually just commented that Ryan won the election ( typically left wing commentator ), although the reality is that it was about even or I would probably say that in my opinion, Biden looked better. Obama will most likely win this election, but sadly your comments will echo for eternity and show what blind sheep the democrats are and you will have to live with being ignorant forever. Obama's first run at the office wasn't a victory, it was the defeat of Bush's successor. ( A muppet could have won that election, why do you think they put a whack job up instead of ruining a up and coming politicians career by having them trounced by the democratic nominee ). I hope Obama fixes our country. One thing we need to realize as a people is that when the election is over, it is your President, no matter which party.
Ryan handled Biden's condescending arrogance with grace and poise. In fact, Biden should be thanked for allowing Ryan to put to bed any doubts about his ability to handle sitting in the spotlight!
Wa, Wa, Wa!!!!!!!!! It sounds like the right wingnuts need a little cheese with their whine. Anyone with half a brain would've been laughing their a$$ off listening to Ryan put out lie after lie.....just like his running mate. Only this time, Joe called him on every one of them. Oooohh, too aggressive. Give me a break. Just like Palin used to say - put your man pants on, Paul. This is the big time.
Ryan had no answer to Medicare vouchers, tax cuts for the rich, privatizing Social Security or ANYTHING on foreign policy. What a joke. Biden took him to school time after time and showed him how it's done. Ryan looked like the proverbial deer in the headlites.
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012!!!!!!!!!!
Too many bitter people that haven't made their own way in the world, jealous of those that have...
Yeah, we should all just be grateful the "job creators" deign to allow any of us to work.
Listen, I work 70hrs/week and have been in management for over 20 years. I make my own way in the world just fine thank you, solidly middle class and perfectly fine with it.
What I object to is the plutocrats increasingly gaming the system in favor of impoverishing everyone below the 1%. What I object to is millionaires and billionaires paying a lower tax rate than I do. What I object to is using MY TAX DOLLARS to subsidize the low wages of WalMart and other companies who drive down the wages for everyone...therefore creating a cycle that leads to the circumstances of everyone being diminished. What I object to is a Supreme Court that has replaced our "one citizen, one vote" system with "one dollar one vote", legalizing bribery and the selling of MY government to the highest bidder.
I'm not bitter, I'm mad as hell that Conservatives are trying to change the republican democracy that has served my family well for 6 generations into an aristocracy where I should bow down to the likes of Koch and Adelson. My father handed this country down to my generation, his hard work and those of him like him being the economic engine that made America great. I'm going to hand it down to my sons intact...and shame on you for dismissing my concerns.
Anybody whose mind wasn't made up before the debates is too dumb to be allowed to vote.
eric: I agree, anyone who doesn't know the platforms and beliefs of the candidates by now is just too lazy or too ignorant to do due diligence and if they allow debates to determine their vote they are doing themselves and America a dis-service.
Obama specifically targeted efforts to get the in college students tom vote early. He even understands that as these debates continue the policies (or total lack there of) of his administration would even cause these idealists to run.
Eric, so you're saying that 94% of voters are dumb, because they don't vote until all of the issues are discussed. I think your comment discloses who the "dumb" one is. They should just have an extra box on Far Left doorknob Democrats ballots, to vote for both terms.
The Middle Class is under assault from medicare to social security and entitlements. What is boils down to is an ass whipping. Jobs gone south and debt gone north..
Joe Biden - His loss of Character
Romney's $5 trillion tax cut wont hold water. Its the equivalent of saying he can drive from NY to LA in 15 hours without breaking the speed limit.
Read:
Read "Fudging the numbers" in "the economist" from Fri Oct 12
Romney will be smart enough to fly in Air Force One when he's President, so making the trip in under 15 hours will be no problem.
Romney slogan for the flight, Dam the DumocRATS, LibTARDS and Regressives full speed ahead !
LAW .... make sure the windows are rolled up ... or down as romney wants them ... hehehe .... hes a complete IDIOT .... just like lyan ryan ....
WAY TO GO JOE !
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
Ole' Possum Head Joe proved himself to be the real idiot !
Hey Joe, what was so damn funny? The economy, Libya, Afghanistan, the Iranian nuclear bomb, gas prices, unemployment? Unbelievable.
Just like The Reggressive "Nose up in the air" Mari Antonnette elitist libreals that post here at MSNBC, Biden showed his true Democratic Regressive liberal elitist self last night. You can never have a disscussion with them, without having the antics that Biden and posters @msnbc showed last night shoved in your face.
What the hell ever happened to voting for the man????? Mitt and Ryan want our vote but will not tell us what their plan is, when asked both want us to wait and see, Well can just wait for two jackwagons to come up a plan? I think not. A plan is a plan and with Obama and Biden they let you see the plan and every one see it, This our country people, the dems at least have a game plan that each of us can look at but never the less it is not a mystery plan like Romney"s no-one has to guess here, In all seriousness I just dont see what the Romney is trying to pull here ,, put it out there like your tax records and let the public decide we are not idiots, I for one have never voted for a BLIND PIG! Oh I did not vote for Obama the first time but I can not vote for Romney this time either, it would be like stepping backwards, One good thing is that we are less than a month form no more I approve this message ads !!! YIPPY, One more thing in my opinion the old Joe kicked Ryans smug ASS!!!!
so did you vote Mccain?
Its funny when i hear children say that it was landslide.. Here is your evidence on how this debat went. When it was Over:
Huffington Post headine post Debate "BIDEN'D" where biden had schooled the young boy. IT NOW SAYS "The Joe show" and how the debate was a draw.
MSNBC - Last night RAchel (i cant be objective) Maddows called it a landslide to now all you hear on MSNBC is calling it a draw.
For a Standing Vice President with 100 years of political (age joke) lol to let a rookie hold his own against himis already a win for the Romney/Ryan ticket.
I'd hardly call Congressman Ryan a rookie. He's been reelected to Congress six times. Quoting media hacks is one of the reasons we've gotten ourselves into this poor state of affairs in Washington and why the devisiveness has given us nothing but deadlock. We need ideas and a plan. I'm looking for something that will get us out of this mess we're in (noting who got us into it and the policies they used).
Any two candidates willing to sell us out to socialism do not deserve our good grace. Universal health care is treason to the American way. We should rather starve and give healthcare for free rather than cementing ourselves into a socialist plan that is known to crash...
ajgorm,
What the hel! are you talking about?
Biden: rude, disrespectful, pompous, arrogant, disturbing.
Ryan: qualified.
.....lyan ryan - UNQUALIFIED !
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
Can anyone tell me how this is a plus in a debate?
I've seen less flailing of the arms, spit, and butt picking at the monkey cages at the zoo than I did last night watching Uncle Joe. He was embarrassing!
In Two Post Debate Polls Ryan Beats The Vice President
CNBC: Ryan 56% - Biden 36%
CNN: Ryan 48% - Biden 44%
son: But, but, but Repubs scream and wail that polls are skewed, polls aren't to be trusted....and now you quote polls.....LOL!
Guess polls can only be trusted when they reflect what you want???
He's cherry picking. If one were to use polling data to see who "won" a debate, they would look at the undecideds category. I believe both went Biden's direction. Also, looking at politifact, Biden (as a percent of statements rated true or mostly true), did much better than Ryan. But you're right, for conservatives, its reality that is wrong.
It is quite PUZZLING and PROBLEMATIC when NOW THE MEDIA talks about BODY LANGUAGE, MANNERISMS ETC. And on the LAST DEBATE not ONE WORD WAS MENTIONED ABOUT THAT. WHY ????????
When it was SO OBVIOUS BOZO THE ROMPPY CLOWN was doing an ACT Off the GONG SHOW !!! All the TACTICS of EVASIVENESS was used and it was clear as day on stage.
The MEDIA should go back and review the last DEBATE. And then ask these questions about that debate?
Joe Biden, very disrespectful. He ran his mouth but did not say very much. Ryan was very respectful and polite, looked more presidential.
los: So when President Obama was respectful and polite during his debate you thought he looked more presidential than Mitt....right?
Um dragon i dont belive you saw romney looking like a caged chimpanzee waving his hand and laughing like a fool all night.
And Obama did not look calm and Presidential..
He looked shocked and lost...
Compliments to him for not digging the hole deeper like Biden continued to do last night with the laughter, sneers, snorts and interruptions.
HE WAS NOT ... he called lyan ryan on his stupidity ... and thats how u debate ....
OBAMA 2012
This morning, on the Today show, Rachel Maddow and Matt Lauer were almost squimish, as Maddow described Biden's pushy, interuptive debate style as genius. She said the laughing and smirking was a great idea and showed he was smarter than Ryan.
Where I come from, he came of as rude, sophmoric, inane and definitely unpresidential. This guy doesn't listen to anyone, he just blathers. Can you imagine someone like him running the Country? Well I can't. It was hard to interpret Ryan's views, because Biden kept interupting him on every question. I thought it was in very poor taste and it's no wonder the Dem's and Rep's can't seem to come together.
It was obvious the narrator was biased, cutting Ryan off several times in mid message, but letting Biden blather away. She did a terrible job. Disappointing, to be sure.
Note: If the demeanors had been reversed, the Press/Media would have torn Ryan apart.