In response to Paul Ryan:

1. We are a big diverse country. We can't all be squeezed into little square holes.

2. "Freedom" is not just the freedom to enforce our personal beliefs on others.

3. We can't preach about individual rights -- and then say "Our way or the highway".

Good morning, everyone --

When Mitt Romney talks about how he worked on a bi-partisan basis with the Massachusetts legislature while he was governor, this is what he means --

http://www.npr.org/2012/06/13/154583216/romney-as-governor-confrontation-one-big-deal

"He was capable, you know, when he was willing to, to get down in the trenches, [to] cut deals, pigeonhole legislators, to get his reform health care package through," he says. "And he did with remarkable success."

But apart from health care, Romney defined success not with big-picture legislative accomplishments but with confrontation. In a 2008 campaign ad, Romney actually bragged about taking on his Legislature: "I like vetoes; I vetoed hundreds of spending appropriations as governor," he said.

Romney issued some 800 vetoes, and the Legislature overrode nearly all of them, sometimes unanimously.

(emphasis added)

It appears that Romney likes vetoes almost as much as he likes firing people.

So, when we consider WHY Massachusetts may have been successful under Mitt Romney's "leadership," it apparently wasn't because of bi-partisanship.

It was because the people of Massachusetts didn't put up with him.

But by the end of his term, Romney's approval rating in Massachusetts was only 34 percent. In recent polls, the number has barely changed.

....

"He was aloof; he was not approachable," Story says. "He was very much an outsider, the whole time he was here."

Bill, Fairfax --

Romney scored big in the debate when he criticized the president for devoting so much time and energy to passing health care reform in his first two years rather than focusing on the economy and job creation.

Considering his record in Massachusetts, where the only thing Romney actually got done was Romneycare, just how ironic is this?

Seriously, Bill.

Jobs growth is great, but jobs are not the biggest issue our economy is facing. The problem is lack of spending power. If current job seekers could actually pay their bills with the jobs that are available now, unemployment would plummet tomorrow. And it's not because those jobs don't pay enough, the problem is that the dollar doesn't buy enough.

It's the monetary policy of the Federal Reserve that has caused this problem.

Gary Johnson 2012

CHUCK I WANT MY CREDIT..

I SAID 3 WEEKS AGO YOU WOULD ABANDON YOUR SKEWED POLLS STARTING OCT 15TH AND LOOK AT THE 2004 MODEL POLLS (which 3 weeks ago showed the race tied)

you have a career to protect and your not going to be the moron spouting OBAMA UP BY 10 the night before the election based on 2008 Lottery poll models.. HAHAHA

I CALLED IT FIRST HERE ON FIRST READ.. GIVE ME MY CREDIT

I still want to know what Romney is hiding in those tax returns. Show us those returns Mitt!

Backhouse --

Bipartisanship was in short supply; Statehouse Democrats complained he variously ignored, insulted or opposed them, with intermittent charm offensives. He vetoed scores of legislative initiatives and excised budget line items a remarkable 844 times, according to the nonpartisan research group Factcheck.org. Lawmakers reciprocated by quickly overriding the vast bulk of them."

Exactly. And you have to figure that there were at least some Republicans in the Massachusetts legislature during that time, but Romney in some cases, couldn't even get a vote from his own party members.

Tell you what, Backhouse. I am extremely tired of Romney lying about everything, but I am even MORE tired of how the media lets him get away with it.

To the media -- DO YOUR JOBS.

As my article above evidences, it's no wonder Romney doesn't like public broadcasting and would like to destroy it.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with Big Bird and everything to do with censorship.

This is a highly ethnocentric view - a limited, self-righteous view that ignores countless other human realities. Surely we're not all white anglocentric protestant males, with an extreme right wing political viewpoint?

How true. I believe Ryan is in fact Catholic. Do you EVER read what you are cutting and pasting?

Romney's lies will come home to roost.

When you go to politifact.com or factcheck.org you'll see where Romney was lying during the debate. It's not enough to be a smooth talker. You have to have substance and facts.

Romney still hasn't said how he will pay for his tax plan. With a huge deficit, why focus on cutting PBS? It's not a major player in the economy. Want a voucher? Vote for Romney.

Once in office Romney can turn right around from being "moderate" Romney to being "the very conservative" Romney.

Count for yourself how many times he's changed his positions over the campaign and ask yourself, "can you trust Romney"?

I can't.

Ah, the "boys" are in my birth State today. Born in beautiful downtown Cleveland. Only thing good that came out of Ohio (besides me) was Bob Feller. For you youngsters, he was one of the greatest pitchers to have ever played Baseball.

Now Ohio, a true Democrat State. To my knowledge, no candidate has every won the election without winning Ohio. Ohio will vote for President Obama and he'll win a second term. Yeah.

OBAMA IN 2012.

Bump or shift? We'll find out in November!

To add to my point above, what could be bought with $1.00 in 1987 now requires $1.89. Meanwhile, incomes, on average, have only increased 50% during the same time. That's bad enough, but when you take into account that monetary inflation isn't equally distributed across the economy (you guessed it, there is greater benefit to the wealthy) the problem becomes even more dire.

Neither bozo has a decent plan to address the fact that we're borrowing and printing 43% of what we spend. Neither bozo has a plan to change our monetary policy.

Gary Johnson 2012

I just figured my 2011 taxes using the Romney tax plan. Tried 0 deductions, standard deduction, and 17,000 cap. It is not a pretty picture for me. Romney needs to explain how his numbers add up or is even possible. If you think he is really lowering your taxes, it is easy to figure out. Sorry, I cannot just take his word for it.

Fairfax Bill:

This is a serious question. What makes a growth rate of 1.3% in GDP "disastrous"? How many washing machines can the economy absorb? How many dryers? How many TV's? How many computers, cell phones, cars, etc.?

Even if everyone went out and bought a new appliance this moment, the fact is most of these items are manufactured off-shore. GDP cannot grow under these circumstances.

Unless, we invest in education directed at our best and brightest who will make the next technological leap that will put us back as the lead dog, we are doomed to a continuing decline in not just the GDP rate, but perhaps to an outright decline in GDP itself.

The economic assumptions and expectations of the past no longer hold. As I've pointed out time and again the work force has changed dramatically. Many, many jobs are now obsolete. Robots have displaced millions of workers, and off-shoring of jobs has killed millions more.

You cannot continue to hang your arguments on the way things used to be.

Mitt Romney is One of those Welch/Trump Jobber Truther Birthers. Romney joined the ranks of Jack Welch, Donald Trump and most of the GOP as well as First Read conservative posters by denying the legitimacy of the unemployment numbers. In Virginia, Romney used his old "43 straight months of unemployment above 8%" attack. Never mind, it is now 7.8%. Friday, Romney did not use this line but it's back like the many other lies Mitt spews daily. Guess when Romney loses a talking point to fact, he simply continues to spout it anyway being unable to process truth.

No surprise that once Romney memorizes his lines, he cannot unmemorize them or revise them. His entire debate performance was one memorized lie/speech after another said as quickly as he could while not allowing anyone to interrupt him--sweating profusely in the process. He even pulled a Primary Romney (despite several back and forth counters between the two candidates) by whining that President Obama went first so he should get to go last. Wonder why the media didn't discuss that lack of professional/presidential tidbit. Whining is what both Mitt and Ann Romney do best. Substance, not much but whining, is their art.

Romney takes President Obama's foreign policy and claims it is his own yesterday all while claiming that a President Romney would be more assertive on the World Stage. The guy denies his own tax cut plan during the debate but the next day his campaign said it is his 20% tax cut plan; they also said Romney misspoke during the debate with his claim that half the green energy companies went bankrupt (not even close). In the debate Romney said he will repeal ObamaCare, then he described his replacement which was ObamaCare except by Thursday, his campaign said no, Romney's health care plan throws people with pre-existing conditions, children, etc. under the GOP Heartless bus.

Trust Romney? Why should anyone trust this man least of all conservatives? Mitt Romney has been running as a "severely conservative" guy but on October 3, suddenly voters are supposed to believe he is a moderate. One hopes voters are not that easily fooled. Did Romney lie before the debate or did he lie during the debate?

Remember this. As of October 3, Romney may claim to be more moderate than he was during the primary but his extreme policy plans for tax cuts, health care, women's rights, medicare, medicaid, social security, food assistance, education, infrastructure, etc. are identical to the policy positions of the far right of the republican party. There is a reason Mitt fails to provide specifics--the details would mean people will not vote for him. Romney thinks Ryan's Budget is "marvelous". Do not be fooled into thinking that the latest moderate Mitt model will not willingly sign the Ryan "cruel" medicare, medicaid, social security killing budget were it to pass Congress; he would willingly sign a personhood amendment that bans contraception among other things; he would willinghly sign a bill repealing equal pay for equal work. Yes, he would.

Ben --

Mitt Romney saved the life of a 14 year old girl: Imagine what it would be like if we could have this kind of decisive people-centered leadership in the White House..

How ironic, in light of the article I posted about how Mitt did not work on a bi-partisan basis with the Massachusetts legislature. His "leadership" there does not appear to have been "people-centered."

Just the opposite, in fact.

Your article reminds me more of the story of Romney's California college roommates who reported how Mitt had a purloined Michigan state trooper uniform and liked to prowl around town pretending he was a police officer.

Romney likes the show of command and authority, that's for sure.

As for the other piece about Romney's church work, it's just too bad that he doesn't have the same compassion in his public life for the 47 percent.

Who do you think you're fooling, Ben?

Shift to what? There are no specifics on any plan that Romney has put forth. He side steps any accountability with his remarks, and it's too good to be true.

The only thing that is for sure with Romney is a return to trickle down economics, and sure return to recession.

Mitt Romney saved the life of a 14 year old girl: Imagine what it would be like if we could have this kind of decisive people-centered leadership in the White House..'

Romney also outsourced jobs to China..for profits only..geee...can hardly wait to see just how many leave if he is elected. HAve to wonder just which lie he has handed out becomes law.

Anna Molly,

By getting rid of PBS, the Romneys of America show they are FOR BIASED REPORTING.

By limiting access to Education for millions of ordinary Americans -- the Adelsons, and the 0.01% very few at the top of the privileged income tree:

Will have a better chance of duping the rest of us, and installing themselves as a controlling Big Brother Government.

Obama has been reduced to a Big Bird speech? He obviously can not possibly run on a record only JIMMY Carter could be proud of. So, our President talks about Big Bird. How can you not just laugh at him?

ir12 and marlen lotsanumbers:

As unbelievable as it seems, Romney will refuse to tell us how he plans to make his 4.8 - 5-trillion-dollar tax cut revenue neutral. He cannot make it revenue neutral of course, which is another of those nasty arithmetical realities. Romney's tax cuts guarantee additional deficit spending and increased debt and/or tax hikes on the 99% who are not rich. That is an empirically-demonstrable fact.

As far as Romney's tax returns, his strategy is working. The truth is he still has not released his full 2010 tax returns, much less his 2011 returns.

What makes all this so terrifying is that the race remains close in spite of the fact that Romney and Ryan have been outed as liars virtually every time they open their mouths. This election is about raw hatred, bigotry, and identity politics for a great number of Republicans, and truth be damned.

Romney brought up big bird. Why cut something that benefits young children's education?

Try cutting oil subsidies, they don't need them.

Talk about selfish me first attitudes...

CALLED IT FIRST HERE ON FIRST READ.. GIVE ME MY CREDIT

RP Really? Get a life will ya? WAAAAAAA!

California Tom - are you enjoying the benefits of uber-regulation? How's that $5.00/gallon gas treating you?

C'mon over to Texas. More people are moving here than any other state. It's true we don't have the blue Pacific to gawk at and the surfing leaves a lot to be desired, but there is one thing here that seems to be attracting the masses - good jobs.

There's even great places for liberals to hang out - Austin has some of the best live music venues in the country.

First Thoughts claims Gov Christie was right in his assessment that the debate would turn the Romney campaign around. Guess Christie blowing hot air and projecting wishful thinking becomes accepted as prescient when polls change to reflect some shift. Never mind that the polls are already reversing themselves, never mind that we have three more debates coming, never mind that unemployment dropped, never mind that among those making $75K or less, Mitt Romney did not move the meter at all.

I find it interesting that conservative posters are cheering the poll numbers yet a week ago, those poll numbers were phony, trumped up, skewed to the left, oversampled democrats, blah blah blah. Well, when Chuck Todd reported the PEW poll last night, he said it had oversampled republicans and he pointed out the Gallup poll showed the opposite. But hey, conservatives think that PEW poll is the real deal. The Gallup poll shows a reversal of Romney's short-lived debate bounce. In Romney's case because he is a pathological liar and people do not trust him or like him, once debate viewers begin looking closer at Mitt's performance, once the "fact-checkers" point out the lies, once the comedians point out the lies, viewers decide it was all show and no substance.

Just how is it that republicans blame everything on Obama's economic policies, when republicans in the house refused to implement any of Obama's economic policies?

I find it mighty strange that the party of "personal responsibility" takes no responsibility for the economic conditions Obama inherited or any of the ongoing problems they complain of, all blame is always laid at the feet of one man who does not have the power to legislate any policy, authorize spending, or change the tax code. I hope Romney realizes that he is running for prez and not ceo, because the two positions are quite different, a president can only do what Congress allows him to do, nothing more and nothing less.

Get something done for America, vote straight democratic in November.

Ohio being critical is well overblown, especially since the latest Pennsylvania & Michigan polls showing the Obama lead dropped to 2-3 points down from 7 - 12 points before the debate. At the beginning of this election cycle, Republicans had 38 combinations that could result in a republican victory, Obama has only 12. Romney needs 2 of the 3 out of Florida, Virginia, and Ohio to win. Ohio just makes the election a whole lot easier.

Jody - Hiring has dropped the last 3 months to 114,000 last month. Over 200,000 jobs a month are needed to keep up with people entering the job market. But it's a miracle, unemployment went down. HOW? 63 million were working when Obama took office, and now there are 58 million. As Obama has been saying do the math!

Newsflash, obama and co filed for managed bankruptcy like mitt said they should. and guess what, it still isnt saved. Most of the profits were from selling chrystler to a FOREIGN CO. and GM is starting to tank.

Hi Ya New Day I have been just across the Ohio border in PA at the confluence of the Beaver and Ohio rivers, (beautiful this time of year) and I do not sense any love for Romney with the blue collar industrial workers I have come into contact with. I have driven across Ill, Indiana, and Ohio and I did not see a single Romney sign along the highway, although I did see some in Mo. If Romney has more support than I sense people are not very proud about expressing it.

Romney is the best schizophrenic and dyslexic used car sales person to run for President...EVER!

Polls...

A lot is being made about the Pew poll. I said before when it showed President Obama up by 8, that it was not right and was overstating his lead. Now, the poll shows a huge reversal and has Mr. Romney up 4. I don't believe that one either. I think this is and has been a close race...fluctuating between a small lead for either candidate. The Pew survey is either getting some serious statistical variance in their polls, or they are over-reacting to campaign conditions in their weighting.

As for the Gallup poll showing a "reversal" for Romney, I think Gallup caused this confusion. Gallup uses a 7-day rolling average. Before the debate, they were showing a sizable lead for the President (7 points I believe). Yesterday, they decided to release the 2 or 3 days after the debate, just to see its impact. In those days of sampling...they showed a tie. Later in the day, they went back to their typical 7 day sample, which was a blending of the two numbers (pre- and post-debate) and showed the President up 5. I'm guessing that as more of that sample becomes post-debate, you will see that 7 day Gallup poll tighten up. (Dennis...if you are around, would like to hear your poll thoughts).

Have a great Tuesday! :-)

geo,

If 200,000 jobs are needed to keep up with people entering the workforce then under the 8 Bush years there should have been 19.2 million jobs created not the net 3 million created thus putting the Obama administration 16 million jobs in a hole when he took office.

CBS seems to have rediscovered the lost art of journalistic integrity.  Yesterday, they aired this

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57527659/ex-u.s-security-team-leader-in-libya-we-needed-more-not-less-security-staff/

That there are still Obama cult members who believe Obama knows what he is doing is proof positive that mind control is a terrible thing.  That you could possibly excuse Obama's blaming a video that, first, had nothing whatsoever to do with the violence, (which he knew, but cited, anyway, as a way of excusing his abject failures), and, second, only became known because of his constantly mentioning it as a cause, which actually caused more violence, is all the proof anyone needs that  you can excuse anything and everything he does.

You have lost, entirely, your ability to think for yourselves.

Fortunately, the rest of the electorate are no longer in Obama's thrall-so he's done.  Kaput.  Finito.

And not a moment too soon.

On the other hand, Obama does seem to have a foreign policy proposal that is paying off-  to his campaign, at least

http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-haberman/2012/10/a-problem-with-smalldollar-fundraising-137842.html

Actively soliciting foreign donors, which is illegal.  Gee.  How low can he go?

We ain't seen nothing yet.

THE most important thing I heard on MSNBC last night was that Romney "was given permission" to go more moderate.

That's right. He was "given permission".

By whom?

The teaparty crowd who will dictate to him if he wins.

California Tom

Now Ohio, a true Democrat State. To my knowledge, no candidate has every won the election without winning Ohio. Ohio will vote for President Obama and he'll win a second term. Yeah.

California Tom, MYTH is delusional about Ohio. Contrary to all of the polling. Obama is leading President Obama, even after that little bump MYTH got from the debate. If you go to real clear politics President Obama has the electoral votes in the swing states.

251 Obama/Biden

Romney/Ryan
181

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map.html

Also Obaama is up in Ohio

They have forgotten that Ohio is the state where Republicans joined with Democrats to repeal John Kasich's union busting SB 5 by a margin of 61%-39%. This is a state where the auto bailout is supported, 62%-30%. This is a state that Obama carried in 2008, and where his message is playing well again in 2012.

Also, Myth doesn't want Kasich to tout the Job numbers in Ohio so Myth can LIE, AGAIN, this President has failed on the economy and jobs .

Oh what a fine web MYTH has weaved. I hope he stays caught up in it too

OBAMA IN 2012.

I see the left is back to taxes and lies. Can't prove either but it is funny to see them squirm.

The left backed a lame horse. It is just that simple. I have HOPE for a change. I have hope the people of Ohio can see thru the Presidents fog of distortion and vote for a real leader this time.

I have hope for America again.

That is a good feeling.

Jody,

At the debate, Romney regurgitated as many memorized LIES as he could, as fast as possible, and ran out the clock.

Mitt Romney, while looking out only for the very wealthy few - is a BULLY AND A VICIOUS LIAR.

well pat if you heard it on msnbc its true as true can be huh...get real there is a reason NOONE watches that channel except extremeist

Jody, have you noticed this?

People I have noticed for a few months now are blogging that when Chuck Todd speaks of Republicans, he says "we".

Have you noticed that? I would be shocked if Chuck was a Republican.

Shocked.

OilShark, I believe you have your facts wrong about MSNBC.

I find it interesting that conservative posters are cheering the poll numbers yet a week ago, those poll numbers were phony, trumped up, skewed to the left, oversampled democrats, blah blah blah. Well, when Chuck Todd reported the PEW poll last night, he said it had oversampled republicans and he pointed out the Gallup poll showed the opposite. But hey, conservatives think that PEW poll is the real deal. The Gallup poll shows a reversal of Romney's short-lived debate bounce.

I personally think the Pew poll is an outlier (just as I think the household survey that claims the highest rate of job growth from 1983 was one too given the lack of supporting numbers in other measurements). However, what you bring up Jody is how the polls can be skewed by oversampling. The polls leading up to the debate contained a population of Democrats equal or above the percentage of votes the President received in 2008. I think the pollsters should have been able to justify that assumption or model, particularly when they were also reporting less enthusiasm for the President compared to 2008. That would seem to me to be contradictory data points. I would really like someone like Chuck Todd to explain why they used that model. I have heard that it is self-identification but that seems a little unscientific. Now because of the debate it seems more are self-identifying as Republican. Either way I find the polls to be useful only in the measurement of trends not absolutes.

TexasT,

If CA is uber-regulated, and regulations "kill jobs", which stagnates growth, why is it the world's 8th largest economy?

"We’ll find out later this week where things stand in the Buckeye State."

Is it going to be another BS poll from NBC that over-samples Democrats by 30% more than Republicans?

Pew Research, which also had a very good track record in 2004 & 2008, now shows Romney ahead among Likely Voters by 4% - 49% for Romney vs 45% for Obama. I guess the lies that Obama tried to paint about Romney were exposed in the debate.

THE most important thing I heard on MSNBC last night was that Romney "was given permission" to go more moderate.

MSNBC after 10am in morning is an embarrassment. They have hosts who only attack Republicans using sycophantic guests. Neither of the other two cable news channels are so immature in their programming. The cartoon network shows more mature programming than MSNBC.

Let’s apply a little logic to the voucher vs Medicare question. If you have 100 people in an insurance pool paying 1200 a year and insurance companies offer 50 of them a lower rate because they are in better health, that will leave 50 that would be more likely to need health care. Thus, it would be more expensive. This would require an increase in the amount charged to seniors that remain on Medicare. If healthy seniors receive the same amount paid by Medicare seniors, in the second year, will the receive an increase.

Once again Romney/Ryan are putting forth a plan without telling how it will work. It is not that their plans are bad, it is just they have no plans.

Sarah, why is CA going bankrupt? It gives out more than it takes in...Pat in boston..check tv ratings on msnbc...its the worst out of all news outlets...so you may disagree but facts are facts

If CA is uber-regulated, and regulations "kill jobs", which stagnates growth, why is it the world's 8th largest economy?

Down from 4th at its height and overtaken by Italy in 2003. Will not fall again soon as Spain is 9th, but Brazil is coming up fast. Texas is 15th so it will be interesting to see if it grows relatively.

But how will California maintain its lead if it continues to divert educational resources to pay for public sector workers?

When are they going to investigate the Barry Admin for its lies Bev. Fox Lies and so does Obama. 7.8% unemployment and yet they jobs added arent even enough to keep up with the current demand. LIES!!!! ME is buring while Barry hits the high roller rooms in Vegas. Barry is NERO. "Hidden Talent counts for Nothing" , the Barry way LOL.

Hey Joe in Albany what's with the 'LWNJ's' heads exploding ?

Lovely gas prices we have out west here. Its the 'refineries' fault. LOL. Thanks Steven Chu. D-Bag

Sarah-3043284

The problem with "uber regulations" is that they are often drafted to support the special interest groups with the loudest voice, and those are usually the ones that are the biggest campaign supporters. In the end, those regulations serve to kill competition, which, as Texas T states, slow growth.

"Uber regulation" and our income tax policy are the two primary reasons there is so much money in politics these days, which is a problem you are familiar with.

I love that the right are now calling the Democrats debate response the "Costanza Jerk Store" comeback. Sums it it up perfectly.

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2012/10/obama-as-costanza-prez-seeks-jerk-store-comeback-after-debate-pu/

Romney will leave obama behind in a trail of poll numbers when they debate on foriegn policy. Romney will hammer obama for snubbing Israel, and failing to provide additional protection for the U.S. Libyian embassador. Can't wait to hear the lies obama will spew trying to cover his ineptness

Dennis - Bush as you say created a net 3 million jobs in 8 years, well that is a hell of a pace, compared to Obama's 125,000 net over 4 years. Is it not?

OilShark1:

California is in the red primarily because of Proposition 13. Period.

MSNBC after 10am in morning is an embarrassment. They have hosts who only attack Republicans using sycophantic guests. Neither of the other two cable news channels are so immature in their programming. The cartoon network shows more mature programming than MSNBC.

especially when you get the 4 horsemen together. Matthews, Shultz, Maddow, Sharpton. What an all star quartet of insolence

hey 7.62x39 what kind of gun do you sport? AK, SKS? either way should make the libs implode

I've been watching some of you bloggers for a couple of years now (when I get a chance) you see, I've been serving for over 31 years in places you couldn't imagine...Kuwait, Afghanistan, Iraq....etc...Doesn't really matter as those folks don't even REMOTELY think like we do. Feisty and Bev.....you 2 are mean spirited folk who take turns tag teaming anyone who does not believe the way you do. Do us all a favor and go out and have a drink with each other like you did last year and chill out. My opinion only, but I don't care for any of our candidates..(or the House or Senate for that matter either). Too bad we can't get a "do over" on all accounts, but unfortunately, those who take their place will probably chase power and money like all the rest. Sounds like you're all getting nervous now.......
Have a nice day.

BTW.....you spend A LOT of time here.

Are you living off the Gov't?????

OilShark1

so mitt saves a 14 yr old and feisty calls her a "crack whore" but the tramp from georgetown wants to blow every tom dick and harry and shes your liberal hero...go figure

That is the only language a SLORTCH like Fiesty knows. Wonderful human being that fiesty, calling a 14 year old, a 14 year old a crack whore.

Fiesty's momma must aabe real proud.

What a tool.

What kind of douchebag lets his 14 year old kid attend a drug fueled rave? Raves are synonymous with copious amounts of X, acid, and crazy sex (mmm, the good old days of raving...). Then the kid disappears and it's a big emergency? Guess Romney gets one slender point for packing all of the Bain goons into the Bainplane to track the dumb kid down, but err, closing barn door - after horse is gone kind of thing. The dad should have been publicly flogged and kicked in the sac.

Dingle,

I beg to differ. The reason there's so much money in our political system these days, is because of a little SCOTUS case called Buckley v Valeo. Which ruled that money, equaled speech.

THAT is the root of the problem. Without THAT ruling, that special interests money would be useless.

The lefty libs were going all out calling the right "desperate" 3 weeks ago. Even the far lefties here on MSNBC were repeating it from horses ass Mr. Ed and Rachel Madcow and her twin brother. Now who looks desperate? I have said all along that this administration would show Americans what it would look like with progressive/liberal policies. It is ugly and we will fix it in November. Thank you President Obama for sending the progressive/liberal agenda back to the stone age where it belongs.

The shellacking will continue. 1/20/2013 - the end of an error.

geo,

Over the last 24 months an average of 150,000 per month jobs have been added. That is more jobs than were added the entire first term (48 months) of George Bush.

Hi ya, Forrest~!

Your "likeability" concerns:

Nowhere. Nothing I have written today, has mentioned likeability.

First, we have the closed-door meetings to ram through Obamacare... NOT televised as promised.

Second, we have Obama sidestepping existing immigration law to give amnesty to illegal immigrants, after previously saying he could not do this.

Third, we have a "Fast and Furious" program sending guns to the drug lords ... and then the COVERUP.

Fourth, we have the Libyan ambassador assassinated and another COVERUP of lies and blame.

Fifth, we have a President who promised to cut the deficit in half during his first term of office.

Sixth, we have a President who promised shovel-ready jobs ... that were NOT shovel-ready.

WHEN DO THE LIES AND COVERUPS STOP ? When does Obama tell the truth ... for a "change" we ALL can believe in ???????

geo, the slowing is BECAUSE the GOPTPers were elected and took control of the House in 2010, and they chose Party First. President Obama's American Jobs Act which was fully funded was given to Congress 2 years ago--it sits there because Boehner will not bring it to the floor for amendment and debate. So let's point the finger of blame for the slowing squarely where it belongs--at the GOPTP.

Republicans like Romney and obviously Fairfax Bill love to spin the line that the only thing President Obama did in his first 2 years was the health care law. They never mention that the ARRA (stimulus) was passed not long after Obama took office (of course they deny the facts that economists say it worked) along with hundreds of other pieces of legislation including other pieces of legislation which provided tax cuts for "real" small businesses, etc. The ignorance in Mitt's comment and those making the same claim is simply the failure to recognize that while ACA was being written, amended, debated, and covered nonstop by the media, hundreds of bills were passed and signed into law. Congressional sausage making of huge, complicated pieces of legislation receive all the media attention but there was little to no mention of the hundreds of other laws signed by President Obama. First was the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, there was also the most sweeping Veterans Benefits legislation since the GI Bill passed and signed into law in that first year.

SAVE BIG BIRD AND SAVE AMERICA!

Obama/Biden 2012

Interestingly, among the major pollsters in the Realclearpolitics average of polls conducted after the debate, Romney is now ahead by 1%, and when Gallup finally makes the switch from Registered Voters to Likely Voters (which will give Romney at least a 4% boost), it would show Romney ahead by 2% among Likely Voters in post-debate polls.

By the way - In the last two Presidential elections (2004 & 2008), Realclearpolitics had a Democratic bias averaging 1.2% (overstating the Democrat vs actual results) among the 12 major pollsters in those two elections.

What kind of douchebag lets his 14 year old kid attend a drug fueled rave? Raves are synonymous with copious amounts of X, acid, and crazy sex (mmm, the good old days of raving...). Then the kid disappears and it's a big emergency? Guess Romney gets one slender point for packing all of the Bain goons into the Bainplane to track the dumb kid down, but err, closing barn door - after horse is gone kind of thing. The dad should have been publicly flogged and kicked in the sac.

I suppose you feel this way about all parents that ignore the drug use of their children? Public floggings, you think that will work?

The latest Pew poll shows Romney in the lead, and the percentage of Republicans has predictably gone up with Romney's numbers and the percentage of Democrats has gone down with Obama's. As I and others have pointed out, the pollsters explain that party affiliation usually follows the presidential numbers. If Romeny goes down again and Obama's numbers go back up, the party affiliation will no doubt follow suit. If that does happen, I wonder if we'll start hearing from Fairfax Bill and other conspiracy theorists about the liberal media pollsters suspiciously "oversampling" Democrats again.

skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City

Both Obama and Romney are war mongering interventionists, whose foreign policy is more alike than different. Obama made promises in his first campaign that he completely ignored. He armed Libyan rebels too, isn't that one of the things you're faulting Romney for?

There isn't a single foreign issue worth losing another American soldier for at the moment. Bring our troops home now, vote for peace, vote Gary Johnson.

Dennis, Columbus

George Bush never came close to 8% unemployment. You need to have unemployment to create jobs and Obama had plenty of room for improvement and he has failed.

Dennis - So, when historians look at Obama's record they will only count the last 24 months of his Presidency? When Romney wins, how long does he have to make up for Obama's incompetence? Jody - You have described why America has to have a different President. How many bipartisan bills were passed under Obama?

Sarah-3043284

I beg to differ. The reason there's so much money in our political system these days, is because of a little SCOTUS case called Buckley v Valeo. Which ruled that money, equaled speech.

THAT is the root of the problem. Without THAT ruling, that special interests money would be useless.

Without that ruling, money would find another way into politics. There is too much at stake for large corporations just to ignore politics because of a supreme court ruling.

Take away the motivation and you fix the problem.

Sara

It looks like California is slipping in the rankings.

According to U.S. Department of Commerce estimates, California’s GDP (gross domestic product) was $1.89 trillion. And that puts California as the world’s eighth largest economy in 2009.

Since the 1970s, California has ranked 7th biggest world economy, although for a couple of years in 1984 and 1985, California was the 5th largest economy in the world.

http://econpost.com/californiaeconomy/california-economy-ranking-among-world-economies

I wonder why that is. Do you have any ideas why California is slipping in the rankings?

Bounce from debate will fade among likely voters. Many Obama supporters were discouraged that Obama did not answer Mitt's false claims more forcefully.

Obama needs to say, "Gov. Romney, it is hard to keep up with all the lies and distortions that you spout in rapid-fire succession, but I will do my best to refute each one." Then, go through the list.

Obama needs to keep stressing the rapid-fire nature of Romney comments and link them to an intentional effort by Romney to mislead the viewer by not giving them time to think about each point. Romney makes. By highlighting the hard sale technique used by Romney, the President can slow him down and force Romney to supply details backing Romney claims.

After a successful debate, Obama's support among likely voters will surge back to more closely align with registered voter polls.

Obama 2012.....for America's future and speaking to truth.

That is the only language a SLORTCH like Fiesty knows. Wonderful human being that fiesty, calling a 14 year old, a 14 year old a crack whore.

Fiesty's momma must aabe real proud.

What a tool.

Feisty doesnt veer too far from FR. She knows her barbaric behavior gets her in trouble. only here at FR can she act like the low info vandal she really is. She expects everyone to abide by the COH all whilst violating it. Then when you call her on it, she calls you a whiny 'pvssy'. Nah in short Feisty is one to hit bum wine a little too hard that and the cheap black velvet whiskey.

Feisty is pure entertainment. Its like going to the carnival

Jody, Iowa "geo, the slowing is BECAUSE the GOPTPers were elected and took control of the House in 2010, and they chose Party First. President Obama's American Jobs Act which was fully funded was given to Congress 2 years ago"

Perhaps it's because Obama just wants to throw more taxpayer money (borrowed from China) to fund more jobs for public unions. Consider this;

Since the end of fiscal 2008 (when the National Debt was $9.986 Trillion), it has increased to $16.162 Trillion as of yesterday - That's DEFICIT SPENDING of more than $6 Trillion in 4 years, with virtually nothing to show for it. That's a rate of increase that is three times as fast as under Bush.

At some point we have to recognize that throwing more money at the problem does not work, and merely saddles our children and grandchildren with more debt to pay (with interest).

<<<<<< YOU ARE GOING BACKWARDS.

Hundreds of hours and more than 80 committees were televised on C-Span, during the health care reform process.

At the end, meetings were all over the Capitol. If they had televised it all, it would have consumed ALL of C-Span air time and more.

FACTS are painful sometimes, right?

The ACA was bi-partisan (and as per Wall Street Reform & the ARRA) the GOP managed to water it down.

And as usual, GOP-ers who dragged out the process and "helped" craft the bill, voted NO.

Just like the Veteran Jobs bill, a few weeks ago, when GOP voted NO.

Slodon,

Proposition 13.

http://www.californiataxdata.com/pdf/Prop13.pdf

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1904938,00.html

Our country has been in a tailspin for 4 yrs. The dismal failure of obumbo to create jobs and get the economy going are catching up to him and the koolaide is running out for his followers. It's time for change folks, real change, and Mitt will be that change.

Sarah-3043284

TexasT,

If CA is uber-regulated, and regulations "kill jobs", which stagnates growth, why is it the world's 8th largest economy?

Do not expect a rational answer. The uber-regulated nations such as Finland and Sweden have a higher standard of living.

Big Bird isn't simply a bigger than life character on a children's program. Big Bird is a symbol. Big Bird is America. He represents our better selves, devoid of greed, pettiness and partisanship.

Do you know where all the money from the sales of Sesame Street merchandise goes? To PBS programming? To subsidize small market stations? No and No. It is part of a for-profit subsidiary of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. They make millions and millions for themselves. Those millions would easily be able to cover for the loss of government funds.

Jody, Iowa

he said it had oversampled republicans and he pointed out the Gallup poll showed

In all candor, that is not correct. The other polls were starting with a projected turnout that would be a continuation of the directional change from 2004 to 2008.

In 2004 Republicans were very energized and were barely 1.5% behind the democrats making "W" the winner. Republicans 37.1% to 38.6%.

In 2006, Republicans were less enthusiastic and their numbers dropped significantly from 37.1% - 31.4%allowing Democrats to take both house and senate in congress because democrats also droppedonly from 38.6% to 37.5%

In 2008, Republicans moved from 31.4% to 33.8% , but democrats also increased from 37.5 to 41.4.

In 2010, Democrats Dropped from 41.4% to 34.7% while Republicans increased from 33.8% to 36.0%, Republicans.

That makes 2008 a peak (change of direction point) in democrat registrations, not a trend. The Media sponsored polls are using 2008 numbers and adding Democrats as though 2008 was the new norm, or a trend.

We are looking at numbers that are between 2004 & 2008, and you better hope it isn't closer to 2004.

This is just rasmussen's study on trends. State by state they sputter on, but nationally, they hit it as close as anyone.

Gallup uses actual voter registrations. There surveys show a similar trend in registrations, not much different from Rasmussen.

Almost every poll shows that democrat enthusiasm has been down to way down and republican enthusiasm is up to way up.

It is the over enthusiastic News media polls that were wrong, not Pew.

You might have noticed that 2 weeks ago, Gallup suddenly shifted from 2 points in favor of Romney to 3 points in favor of Obama. That is because the democrats were not sending voter registrations directly to the boards of elections, but rather to a state location, to deliver them to the boards of elections just ahead of the deadlines to register.

There are two reasons for this.

1) Republicans won't know just how many new democrat registrations are in, and they won't have a chance to react to get more registrations. (In Florida alone, the democrats dropped 200,000 registrations off in just a couple of days)

2) By putting a large number of registrations in just before the deadline, bad registrations may slip through unlike for the republicans, who suffered about 200 rejections because there was plenty of time to verify people actually were residents.

In 2008, there were 1200 inelligible felons who voted in the senate race. These were not discovered until long after the vote counts were certified and there is no way to back this out. Would it make a difference if they were backed out. YES, The democrat won by 300 votes, and republicans don't have campaigns to register convicted fellons. The other can of worms is that Minnesota only convicts voting inelligible felons that admit to knowing they voted when they were ineligible. 426 admitted knowing of which most have been convicted and are being punished.

WOW The insipid REDHEAD is now conceding the race to ROMNEY! All you socialist/democrats taking note?

Also did Obama get in writing the right to use BIG BIRD for his democratic commercials?

The uber-regulated nations such as Finland and Sweden have a higher standard of living.

and like an 80th of the population of the US. Nice try Ikarus. what about the uber regulated nations of say China or Russia?

Pat, Boston, it's true, Chuck T refers to republicans as "we"; he doesn't even try to hide it any more. I don't care that he is a republican but I do care that, like David Gregory, the bias is so clear when he provides so-called analysis of President Obama and Mitt Romney, and moderates discussions. Tim Russert was a professional as was Walter Cronkhite; Gregory and Todd should study their approach and maybe, just maybe, I'd watch MTP again.

Alan, obviously you do not pick up on sarcasm. I was making fun of republicans who for weeks have been ranting and whining about the poll numbers being skewed. I was not ranting about the PEW poll because I view all polls as "snap shots" in time, worthy of discussion; I was pointing out the hypocrisy of conservatives who whined before but now embrace the PEW poll as the "real deal", which Todd said oversampled republicans. It's laughable how ridiculously transparent conservatives are. They loved the BLS jobs numbers when they were bad but they reject the numbers when it is good news--same goes for their poll views.

By the way, Alan, FOX attacks democrats all day every day so if you don't like MSNBC after Morning Joke and Chuck Todd, then trot right on over to FOX for your daily dose of liberal bashing.

@Caesar....That would be a Chinese SKS with a ATI folding stock, and a Russian Saiga.

Caesar Augustus-

The uber-regulated nations such as Finland and Sweden have a higher standard of living.

and like an 80th of the population of the US. Nice try Ikarus. what about the uber regulated nations of say China or Russia?

Try to be rational, your counter argument made no sense. You keep referring to Roman Gods ... did you teach Roman History, that and your screen name would suggest so?

Alan, NJ - I believe that parents should not ignore their children's drug issues. My parents were involved in my life, and frankly discussed with me, my use of drugs (aah, stupid youth, but good times). Also, I was considerably older than 14. Her dad should have been all over that @!$%#, like Romney on a company full of vulnerable employees. Ignore your kid's issues at your kid's peril? That's just being a weak, fearful pussy -kids need discipline and a strong parent who will give them guidance. As far as whether flogging would work -well, there's only one way to find out. Let the flogging and nut kicking commence...

So let's see......Tim Russert and NBC News decided that Florida was the tell-all, be-all of 2000. This year, you've decided it's Ohio.

There arwe a number of scenarios in which Romney can hold the base of his party, not win Ohio, and still win the Presidency.

I rather suspect this is all part of the "make 'em feel helpless" strategy that the media tried to employ before the debate.

You show a poll, from a "battleground state," showing Obama in the lead, and then tell the public at large that 'Romney can't win unless he takes that state.'

Then, the ObaMANIACS chortle and crow on your message board about how it's all over, and Romney can't/won't win because Obama-shama-lama-ding-dong is leading in Ohio.

It didn't work before the debate, and it won't work now. Everybody knows this is a whole new ballgame, and Romney could very well win this thing, with or without Ohio.

Don't worry about this people. This is classic aversion 101 technique when you are behind in an election ---- shift focus from specifically why you are behind to insignificant things that might happen in the future that hold absolutely no weight in the campaign world right now. Especially when it is common knowledge that many, many pre-presidential poles prove after the election that they were totally off in their scopes.

Romney/Ryan 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

blackcatwhitecat

Try to be rational, your counter argument made no sense. You keep referring to Roman Gods ... did you teach Roman History?

And you speak of ration and logic yet fail to produce an argument based in logic. Simply stating that someone is illogical or irrational is hardly sufficient.

You keep referring to Roman Gods

not once did i refer to a roman god. But funny Ikarus you ask me to be rational when you post silly things like uber regulated small countries like Switzerland or sweden but dismiss large populuses like China and Russia.

did you teach Roman History?

always a student, never more.

And you speak of ration and logic yet fail to produce an argument based in logic. Simply stating that someone is illogical or irrational is hardly sufficient.

its called circular logic and liberals are full of it. They know because they know.

7.62x39mm

@Caesar....That would be a Chinese SKS with a ATI folding stock, and a Russian Saiga.

not the Yugo eh?

DingleB

blackcatwhitecat

Try to be rational, your counter argument made no sense. You keep referring to Roman Gods ... did you teach Roman History?

And you speak of ration and logic yet fail to produce an argument based in logic. Simply stating that someone is illogical or irrational is hardly sufficient.

I do not believe that I addressed you so bugger off.

Eric-913730

Romney brought up big bird. Why cut something that benefits young children's education?

Try cutting oil subsidies, they don't need them.

What oil subsidies? Oil companies have the same tax deductions that other companies have and thus the price of oil and gas is reduced to the consumer. The subsidies went to Obama's contributors in the "green energy" (non-)business and back into Obama's campaign coffers. The tax on a gallon of gasoline is an order of magnitude higher than the profit. Earn some money instead of living off my tax dollars.

romney's ahead in the polls?i can't believe because someone says something, the majority of the country simply believe it.

both republican past heads of states, kissinger and rice have stated that hilary clinton is doing a great job, because he is.

and simply because we didn't bomb libya in repsponse to our ambassador being killed, doesn't mean there's not convert missions being developed for retaliation, because, you can be sure there are. this president killed bin laden.

romney's doing the old snake oil salesman pitch, spinning anything he can, and the fact that he's such a good salesman is scary. he's full of crap, that's his history, his personal story. how can people of this country elect a man that is personally responsible for taking some of their jobs, thinking he'll add more? when in reality, he's a corporate raider, mormon, who will give big jobs to his church members first. that's simply how the mormons roll. they take care of their own, and steal from the rest. look into it. and his niceguy/bullying behavior to get his way which you witnessed in the debates, he was an "agressive gentleman". that's basic 101 behavior taught by mormons. you think i'm kidding? unless you've been living in mormon town like i have for almost 20 years, you have no idea how they litigate and negotiate with people outside of their faith. plus the practices of paying their own more than non mormon employees who do the same job. when it comes to business, their practices are not as ethical as their preaching. the lds church has a huge amount of money trying to convince the country they are not racist, like they claim, with their top right ads on youtube for the past few years, their massive tv ad campaign. when in reality, i see coming out of their churches nothing but blonde hair, blue eyed arian types. but again, the country is believing everything that comes out of this guy's mouth. i think he's the anti christ.

DB Akron, no, Chuck Todd said the PEW poll skewed toward republicans. You can spin your lengthy models all you want but it boils down to polls are snapshots in time, nothing more and nothing less. I find it amusing that conservatives are gleeful and touting polls this week while disclaiming them earlier.

Conservatives trying to tout Romney as a hero take note beyond the obvious of why would the parents have allowed a 14-year old girl to go to such a party: Osama bin Laden is dead, General Motors is Alive. Now, that is leadership; that is Presidential.

Polls, who cares about stinking polls. Look around and see if your personal situation has improved. Look at your community and beyond. Personally for me it has not improved. As for my community, we have more shops that closing, price of food going up and yesterday I paid $5.39 a gallon for gas.

Polls are useless, and reality bites!

Off to work to pay for my gas to get me there. geez

I do not believe that I addressed you so bugger off.

precisely why you are hardly ever worth the trouble of discussion Ikarus.

Polls are useless, and reality bites!

Off to work to pay for my gas to get me there. geez

as a neighbor, trust me I know the feeling. Winter blend here we come HAHA

CA,

So are you making the claim that China should be our role model, in terms of labor markets? Instead of racing them back into the Guilded Age, why don't we force them into the 21st Century? Do you agree that human rights should trump corporation and manufacturing rights?

I mean, after all, if I owe you THAT much money, it kind of becomes as much YOUR problem, as MINE. They need our markets. They need our consumers. We DO have leverage. Go after the U.S. corp's that would take advantage of China's markets, pull those jobs out of China, and kill two birds with one stone.

If we cease to allow sweatshop conditions to exist, we won't have to compete against them.

thetotas

I feel you. We can thank the federal reserve and our short sighted monetary policy.

By the way, Alan, FOX attacks democrats all day every day so if you don't like MSNBC after Morning Joke and Chuck Todd, then trot right on over to FOX for your daily dose of liberal bashing.

I watched 10 minutes of Fox yesterday. The Brett Bier program where they discussed Romney's foreign policy speech. One panelist liked it, the second thought it was weak and the third was ambivalent. It was an adult conversation where the host did not interject his own views. It analyzed Romney. MSNBC is 19 hours of Romney bashing by partisans. It is a joke. Of all programs I caught Chris Hayes "Up" was actually watchable, where he he an adult conversation on tax policy between Joseph Siglitz and Avik Roy. Now it was pretty wonky, so I don't know the entertainment value, but the content did not treat me as an idiot, and that is what most of MSNBC has become. The thing is there is a need for a liberal point of view told in an intelligent manner but MSNBC is not it. The presenters and guest are caricatures and are reminiscent of a George Orwell story.

BTW Hannity would fit in perfectly on MSNBC. All you would have to do is flip the switch from right to left and the same moronic talking points would emerge.

Ben-636050, Willard should a great guy, and does all those charitable things, yet when it can his time to serve for this country during the Vietnam war he fled to France and let someone else kid go in his place. Some guy.

So are you making the claim that China should be our role model, in terms of labor markets?

not at all, that is a misdirection. Its quite the opposite and you know that. nice try.

You see while you scream or your side screams REGULATE, you fail to see its quality over quanity. Its the quality of regulation, not over regulating (or under).

CA,

Maybe that's your problem. You see this as having "sides". And, by the way, then why did you bring up China?

I've never screamed, "regulate". In fact, my position has been posted many times and it goes something like this, "Not more, not less, but smart government".

Conservatives trying to tout Romney as a hero take note beyond the obvious of why would the parents have allowed a 14-year old girl to go to such a party: Osama bin Laden is dead, General Motors is Alive. Now, that is leadership; that is Presidential.

Really? George H.W. Bush liberated Kuwait with a global coalition (excluding Russia, China, North Korea and the Democrats in the Senate) in one of the most decisive wins ever. That was presidential leadership. Didn't help him win re-election though.

Osama death was great - helped by intelligence collected (via water-boarding) for years before Obama came to office - but still a good thing. It's not enough and it has to be measured against the security lapses that lead to the al Qaeda attach in Libya.

Mitt claims 12 million new jobs in 4 years with his economic plan. But, it is not a plan for job growth.

Moody's projects 12 million new jobs from current Obama policies and economy over the next 4 years.

So, what is Mitt saying here?

That, if he doesn't mess up Obama's plan, we will have 12 million new jobs in the next 4 years.

According to Romney's own website, spending cuts will start in 2016 if economy reaches 4% growth. His economic plan for our future is based on HOPE, and little else. He hopes Obama's plan works.

Romney is like a snake oil salesman. He offers little but hope it (Obama's plan already in place) will work.

If we're going to rely on Obama's plan to create 12 million new jobs in the next 4 years, then we should all vote for President Obama and send Mitt Romney back into retirement.

OBAMA 2012......for 12 million jobs in the next 4 years.

CA,

Maybe that's your problem. You see this as having "sides".

but it is black and white here. take the blinders off. we have the reds and the blues.

"Not more, not less, but smart government".

well less government is better. Our govenment was designed to play a small role. Not the current overreaching role it has now assumed. so yeah, when people scream less government, I agree it needs the walmart treatment and needs a rollback.

Dennis, Columbus, Ohio "Over the last 24 months an average of 150,000 per month jobs have been added. That is more jobs than were added the entire first term (48 months) of George Bush."

24 Months? Why 'Cherry pick'? According to the official government Bureau of Labor Statistics there were an average of 131,794,000 people working in 2000 (Clinton's last year) and an average of 136,794,000 people working in 2008 (Bush's last year, for a gain of slightly over 5 million jobs under Bush (including jobs lost near the end of 2008). In fact, Bush had 46 straight months during which 7.867 million net new jobs were added (Sept 2003 - June 2007).

In contrast, the current average for Obama for 2012 is only 133,120,000, for a net LOSS of about 3.7 million jobs under Obama's tenure compared with the average number of jobs for Bush's last year (2008).

CA,

History of the Federal workforce on average (Excluding military personnel):

Key: President <> (Average Govt. Employees) <> (Population) <> (Percent of Population)

Reagan <> 2.91 mil <> 237.5 mil <> 1.23%

Obama <> 2.78 mil <> 308.7 mil <> 0.90%

http://www.opm.gov/feddata/HistoricalTables/TotalGovernmentSince1962.asp

Clearly the Government was larger under Reagan than it is under Obama both in raw numbers and as a percent of the US population and Reagan did not have a bump due to temporary census workers as Obama did.

So why is gas so high in CA, in the last two weeks I have bought gas in five BTWdifferent states ranging from 3.49 a gal. to 3.91 a gal. no where near the 5.39 Thetotas paid. I suspect it does have something to do with the fire at a CA refinery last month. In the end gas will never get any cheaper, it never has, it is a finite resource with a world market, deregulation has lead to America finally paying what the rest of the world is willing to pay, get used it. I rented a Chevy Cruze for this job and I must say that it gets amazing MPG with solid performance, so we can definitely build more efficient cars if we wish too.

Dennis and your handpicked numbers. Kind of like last week with Romney had more words in the debate (less time). Meaningless.

Clearly the Government was larger under Reagan than it is under Obama both in raw numbers and as a percent of the US population and Reagan did not have a bump due to temporary census workers as Obama did.

if it is as simple as population then perhaps but the broader picture is the amount of Government, not its employees. poor Dennis I dont think you understand that.

Hey Dennis. Obama stinks, simple as that. you keep spinning, youre gonna throw up from dizziness

I suspect it does have something to do with the fire at a CA refinery last month.

fortunately a good chuck of the people aren't buying it too. Hey Forrest, why dont you just pick up one of those Chevy Volts Obama loves.

Let me offer a big "thank you" to all posting vile diatribes against a fourteen year old who made a bad choice and could have paid for that mistake with her life.

By revealing the depths of your characters, you leave an impression of Obama supporters' mentalities that no one on the right could ever begin to create.

So, thank you, all- any undecided voter reading these statements must be delirious at the prospect of joining your ranks.

ROY,

You use that metric all the time but it is not a valid metric it does not account for the reasons so you make assumptions.

Where is you link?

Tyler and Sally

In response to the comment"Mitt Romney saved the life of a 14 year old girl: Imagine what it would be like if we could have this kind of decisive people-centered leadership in the White House.", Feisty's comment 'Was Willard wearing his cape & tights when he single handily rescued the runaway crack whore?'

Why do you seem to have a Double Standard when it comes to comments by Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL.

I've seen you ban many people for far less onerous comments by others, yet you let Feisty get away with these type of comments on a regular basis. Normally, I find Feisty's comments 'entertaining', but when she goes 'over the top' she should have to live by the same standards as everyone else.

OHIO ... Please listen !!!

I am from California. We're a good state but we're in a G D financial mess. My wife is a teacher and I sell life insurance. Together we are comfortable but it requires every penny of both incomes. Also our oldest daughter just started college so we are very tight. We cannot afford to lose any income even if my daughter weren't in college, the lost any of one of our incomes would mean foreclosure of our home. California is about to have massive state, county and city layoffs, we need the economy come back to life. Growning the economy is the only solution to stopping these layoffs.

I am asking that Ohio and all the other swing states vote for Romney. There is no way President Obama has any idea on how to fix the economy. Our National "Gross Domestic Product" has fallen every year since he took office ... 2.4, 1.9, 1.6 and now 1.2 Anything under 1.8 is considered a reccession. The middle class income is down by over 12% over the last 3 1/2 years. Does President Obama think he's helping the middle class ?

The other day, I watched President Obama spell Ohio " OIHI " ?

Please do not vote to re-elect President Obama !!! Please ...

Roy, I dont believe Tyler and Sally venture into FR. In fact I dont even think they regulate in FR.

CA,

I pointed out the number of words ONLY to show that you post without FACTS.

I post links so you can see facts, you don’t.

ROY,

As I have pointed out many times Tyler and Sally do not moderate First Read per an agreement between First read and Newsvine.

The Obama folks are crowing that this is a good news number because it shows we're moving in the right direction. That's a curious view since GDP growth is lower in 2012 than it was in 2011, which was lower than it was in 2010. A more dispassionate view would be that the direction he's talking about is along the road of a new normal characterized by anemic economic growth and persistently high unemployment.

An even more dispassionate view would be that you have to pass through 7.8% to get to 6%.

These are policies that are forced on us by the small government crowd. If government had not contracted, we would have had a better GDP and lower unemployment numbers. Certainly, it is possible to make the argument that Obama should not have reduced the size of government at such a crucial time, but it is not possible to make a reasonable argument that Mr Romney wouldn't make things worse by reducing the size of government even further and thereby shrinking the GDP and increasing unemployment.

I still say lets get rid of all these clowns from office and hire a group of teachers from our colleges and institutions to 1st fix our government 2nd fix our economy and then revamp our law system....

Dennis, Columbus, Ohio "ROY,You use that metric all the time but it is not a valid metric it does not account for the reasons so you make assumptions. Where is you link?"

Just go to the official government Bureau of Labor Statistics site (BLS.gov) and search their historical employment figures by month starting in January 2000 and ending in September 2012.

CA,

I pointed out the number of words ONLY to show that you post without FACTS

yes Dennis and you post a lot of numbers and other stuff that is also well uh irrelevant. which is really factless. Besides Dennis, I only referenced it because another lefty poster said Obama had more words, I loosely quoted one of your buddies. The point I made which you clearly did not see was it was IRRELEVANT. just like the numbers you just pulled out. You equated people are larger government when its the policies, laws and regulations that make the government larger. Sorry Dennis as you guys on the left say 'that dog dont hunt'.

Caesar Augustus- "Roy, I dont believe Tyler and Sally venture into FR. In fact I dont even think they regulate in FR."

Thanks for the info - I didn't know that. That explains why FR allows such atrocious comments by Feisty and Beverly in Chicago.

I guess FR only bans comments from conservatives.

CA,

[I only referenced it because another lefty poster said Obama had more words, I loosely quoted one of your buddies]

You just proved my point … you are willing to post based on rumor or hearsay – no facts required.

ROY,

Why make me look for something you say is true … why not post the link?

I find it interesting that conservative posters are cheering the poll numbers yet a week ago, those poll numbers were phony, trumped up, skewed to the left, oversampled democrats, blah blah blah.

Today, the poll numbers are 100% accurate, but the job numbers are a complete lie. When the job numbers were above 8% and the poll numbers showed Obama having a decisive win, the job numbers were 100% accurate and the poll numbers were a lie.

Oh, of course - we should also note that only the poll numbers that show Romney ahead are truthful. The ones that show him behind are a lie.

Republicans have a monopoly on the truth, you see.

Tyler and Sally

BTW - exactly which COH did I violate?

Squealing like a school girl is not very becoming....

Don't like what I have to say, acquaint yourself with the ignore button and actually use it, unlike Snookie-Joe!

the poll numbers are fickle. The only one that counts is Nov 6th. see ya there

Hey Feisty, calling someone a whore, FR poster or not, does. Have someone read the COH to you then. You whine about the COH yet expect everyone to abide by it. YOU ARE GREAT ENTERTAINMENT.

31yearsofservice - first, thank you for your service to all of us.

When I read your comments I was disappointed you picked on Feisty and Bev but left out people like White Collar Auto, nojo, geo-, caesar - who make disgusting and crude comments. Frankly, your bias makes it appear you have your own agenda and it is clearly not impartial. The names I've mentioned spend as much time on this site as anyone. Did you also accuse them of receiving government help? No, of course not.

So your appearingly civil post really wasn't so much, was it? And, you're clearly a Republican who wants to appear unbiased when you are just the opposite.

See, when you're fair and unbiased - you might have a case. You proved you have none.

Oh, and I do work - but I'm sure you'll accuse me of not working. It appears to be your MO.

Obama/Biden 2012

That explains why FR allows such atrocious comments by Feisty and Beverly in Chicago.

and neither venture too far from FR. they have been suspended. Its only a matter of time before Feisty does it again and I suspect she will be banned and become one of the dreaded re-regs. tick tock as she says.

You just proved my point … you are willing to post based on rumor or hearsay – no facts required

it was irrelevant whether there were more words or not Dennis and you know exactly what I am talking about. Now go back and re-read it. You scurried away after I showed you that you were wrong. and you continue to prove my point, you are irrelevant and an Obama cheerleader. nice pom poms

Backhouse said:

Paul Ryan, in his recent Ohio speech:

Suggested that marriage equality is not an"American value" or even"Universal human values".

This is a highly ethnocentric view - a limited, self-righteous view that ignores countless other human realities. Surely we're not all white anglocentric protestant males, with an extreme right wing political viewpoint?

Ryan is correct in saying that. What you added was BS to try to make your point. He didn't say anything about anglocentric, protestant males with extreme right wing political viewpoints.

What is it Backhouse? You have a problem with people expressing their viewpoint that isn't the same as yours? Isn't that being a little extreme? Since when does everyone have to comply with your version of life? Is what you say totally correct in the realm of this world? I think not! Paul Ryan has just as much right to express his views as you do. What you do is draw the line in distinction. You are a liberal. Ryan is a conservative. Each person has the right to say what he/she feels. Get over it.

Backhouse said:

Paul Ryan, in his recent Ohio speech:

Suggested that marriage equality is not an"American value" or even"Universal human values".

This is a highly ethnocentric view - a limited, self-righteous view that ignores countless other human realities. Surely we're not all white anglocentric protestant males, with an extreme right wing political viewpoint?

Ryan is correct in saying that. What you added was BS to try to make your point. He didn't say anything about anglocentric, protestant males with extreme right wing political viewpoints.

What is it Backhouse? You have a problem with people expressing their viewpoint that isn't the same as yours? Isn't that being a little extreme? Since when does everyone have to comply with your version of life? Is what you say totally correct in the realm of this world? I think not! Paul Ryan has just as much right to express his views as you do. What you do is draw the line in distinction. You are a liberal. Ryan is a conservative. Each person has the right to say what he/she feels. Get over it.

Sorry - bubblegum

caesar - who make disgusting and crude comments.

right Seeking. show me. Like comments from seeking who claim i fear the black man in the white house. YOu know baseless garbage like that. yeah seeking approval enjoy your ivory tower

SeekingSanity said:

When I read your comments I was disappointed you picked on Feisty and Bev but left out people like White Collar Auto, nojo, geo-, caesar - who make disgusting and crude comments.

Pot, Kettle, black! I suppose you feel your hatefilled comments are immune from being disgusting and crude? Look in the mirror sanity... what you will see is a person who also makes disgusting and crude comments. I have never seen you post without calling someone a name, if you disagree with them.

I await your name calling. It's all you got... you certainly don't have anything worth a damn.

Just got a UPS delivery. 12 hour days for the overworked UPS man. He says he's never been so overworked as this year, but UPS holds up hiring more workers despite record profits.

Why?

Just speculation, but UPS doesn't want jobs numbers to improve dramatically before the election.

More for the rich (top 1%, now 24% of nation's income, up from 10% in 1980), less for the working guy. That's what you'll get with Mitt.

See, when you're fair and unbiased - you might have a case. You proved you have none.

BINGO Seeking!

People like RoyBoy who intentionally leave those out on their own side only proves the very last thing they are is "unbiased"... lol

I am who I am, don't like what I have to say?

Don't read it! But for the love of gawd STOP the whining!

PS: Still waiting for an answer there Roy... *crickets*

"Hey Forrest, why dont you just pick up one of those Chevy Volts Obama loves."

Because I am on the road, so I would have to run it on gas, I cannot expect hotels and restaurants to let me plug into their recepticles. Along with the lessened energy independence electric cars would afford us, republicans have turned their backs on the improved infrastructure needed to complete public and private charging stations from coast to coast and the huge numbers of jobs and profits for local contractors and businesses that would result. I will tell you what though, $5.39 a gal gas in CA will help the cause now won't it. Electric cars are here to stay and will become more and more prevalent, electricity is our best bet for cheap available energy as we can produce all we wish in a variety of ways in any location, we can generate all the electricity we want with no interference from any foreign nations. There is no limit to the amount of electricity we can produce except those that we self impose. Although we do need to address an inadequate and failing national grid to distribute that energy. As soon as you see commercial and public properties installing charging stations for electric cars you will see the sales of electric cars rise dramatically, because the problem is not with the cars themselves it is with the lack of infrastructure in America to properly support their use, when the pain at the pump finally becomes unbearable then and only then will America respond.

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED

Mitty has a problem in the state of Ohio! He didn't want to save the car industry. Lots of lots of employment from those industries in the state!

The citizens of Ohio realize that Romney wishes to make them serfs. All to serve him and Queen Ann!

There are many erroneous posts on this thread, but I couldn't pass this one up. Ohio didn't "really" benefit from the auto industry "bail out." There are lots of Ohioans who lost their job during the bail out, and they're still unhappy about it. Let alone those who lost their pensions over this as well. Romney was right in that the industry should have filed bankruptcy. THEN the plan created would not have side stepped bankruptcy law and would have been more fair than the govt. plan. Either way, some employees would have lost their jobs, but it wouldn't have been a one-sided save, only favoring Union jobs.

Romney has the chance to take Ohio, it just depends on how many Obamadrones in the big cities and Union lackeys vote. (Honestly, there are those here in the Unions who are no longer Obamadrones, but they're not telling their Union bosses.)

Oh, and the job growth in Ohio? Our Republican Governor did that, not Obama policies.

From a proud Buckeye trying to get ahead DESPITE Obama policy.

I actually don't know what standards are used by mods here. One time I made a post defending Israel and someone blasted me as a "Zionist puppet" and went on a rant about how Jews like me (and I am not Jewish) wanted to ethnically cleanse everyone, blah, blah, blah. I said I thought he was a lunatic and I GOT BANNED!

Apparently sliming someone as a Zionist puppet is ok. rightfully calling them crazy get you banned. Whatever.

Also - calling a 14 year old who gets in trouble at a party a "crack whore" is despicable beyond words.

Brian,

You can express your belief that marriage equality isn't an "American Value" if you would like. Freedom of expression, is after all, an American Value. However, I think it's pretty hard to argue that equal protection under the law isn't right up there with our freedom to express our opinions...

First, there are certain "protected classes" laid out in the 14th Amendment and the Civil Rights Act. Two of them are race and gender. In the Supreme Court case Loving v Virginia, SCOTUS ruled that,

Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival....

Now this case was based on race, BUT to support gay marriage, all you have to do is change race to GENDER, another protected class. PLUS, the 14th Amendment has a little something called the "Privileges and Immunities" clause. Which means, you can't deny the citizens, their privileges, or immunities, based on those classes. In this case, that'd be gender.

So, since marriage is a legal contract, that comes with PRIVILEGES, you can't deny citizens, without a damn good reason, a reason that's already been shown to exist, based on gender, among other things. So, if the state can't prove a reason, to deny privileges to people based on gender, they can't make that particular law.Now, put it together. If two gay people want to enter a contract, and the state tells them they can't, because of the gender of one of the parties, THAT'S A BIG NO NO.

Also, the logic that gay people are free to marry, just as you are, i.e they're free to marry one of the opposite sex, is the EXACT same defense that Virginia used in their defense, again just turn gender to race.

The court ruled, AGAINST that logic.

Second, you have an implied right to privacy, mostly through the 9th and 4th Amendments. In a the SCOTUS case Lawrence v Texas, the court said this...

The Texas statute furthers no legitimate state interest which can justify its intrusion into the personal and private life of the individual.

Third, AGAIN, marriage is a civil contract, that comes with over 1,000 benefits granted by the state. Most of these benefits deal with property, insurance, tax and probate law. Civil unions, do NOT grant equivalent benefits.

In order to enter a legal contract, the parties have to have LEGAL CAPACITY FOR INFORMED CONSENT, that means no, this won't lead to pedophilia, beastiality, or marrying our toasters. Seeing as none of those have that capacity. Polygamy? Well come up with a link between gender and multiple spouses, and you MAY have a point, but since most polygamy is based on straight relationships, then I ask you, why doesn't straight marriage lead to it?

Furthermore, marriages are NOT religious, that's Holy Matrimony, which a church can NEVER be forced to perform against its dogma, due to protections in the 1st Amendment. This is why people can, and do, get married any day without ever stepping foot in a church.

Also, marriage has NOTHING to do with procreation. After all, we let people have kids OUTSIDE of marriage, and NOT have kids while married.

Fourth, there are very few limited reasons for the government to discriminate in law, against one of these protected classes, and in order to do so, the government has to pass the test of strict scrutiny, which is that compelling state interest mentioned in Lawrence v Texas.

So....

The real question, those making the case for continuing the gender based discrimination of DOMA is, what is that compelling state interest? And before we start talking about marrying appliances, nephews, sheep, or dead people, ask yourselves this...

Since the only difference between a gay marriage and a straight marriage, is the gender of a single party, what is inherent to that single party's gender which would lead to bestiality, incest, polygamy, pedophilia, or marrying inanimate objects? Remember, you're ONLY changing ONE person's GENDER, so logically, it must be something within that one person's gender, which would lead you to believe gay marriage would open the door to any of those things, so... WHAT IS IT? Why would gay marriage lead to the repeal of the laws we have on the books, banning all those things?

Or, in easier terms...

Why doesn't STRAIGHT marriage lead to any of that?

As soon as you see commercial and public properties installing charging stations for electric cars you will see the sales of electric cars rise dramatically, because the problem is not with the cars themselves it is with the lack of infrastructure in America to properly support their use, when the pain at the pump finally becomes unbearable then and only then will America respond.

The market will decide when it is the right time to create a whole infrastructure to accommodate electric cars. Right now -Spending billions for the hundreds of people with electric cars is foolish.

To be clear I have been a lifelong member of the Democratic Party
– I voted for President Obama based on these reasons.

Obama promised

-
to bring the country together like never before

-
to bridge the gap between all races and enter
into a new era of hope

-
to cut our national debt in half by the end of
his first term (why our media fails to ignore the importance of this boggles my
mind) the reality of what he did turns into a 11 trillion dollar lie * in 2008
our national debt was 10,000,000,000,000 – if Obama did what he promised it
would now be 5 trillion – it just tipped the scales at 16 trillion. How he gets away with this is insane to me –
just an average middle class American.
To see a man or even a neighbor go to jail for stealing a pack of gum –
it just amazes me what our leaders get away with.

-
to bring a new era in the relationships with
other countries around the world and because he has the racial profile he does
it would allow American hating extremist around the world to look at us in a
new light – the reality is after securing the country of Iraq (at the cost of
billions in cash as well as life) we are about to let them be overrun by west
hating extremist * the same goes in Afghanistan – our current sitting president
is so concerned about his political position with the up and coming election he
chose to make it world knowledge that we are leaving Afghanistan. This says to me a person who served 4 years
in the navy – that he could care less about the safety of our troops that are
still there. Here is what is happening
now – because the Afghan people know we are leaving them to fend for themselves
– factions of average village people are now trying to show Al Qaeda that their
village is anti America – thus our troops are experiencing heightened attacks
from those we have actually been trying to help for more than ten years

-
to create millions and millions of green
jobs. The reality is that pipe dream
does not exist – but because of Obamas arrogance he thought the average
American would go out and purchase solar panels for their house or purchase a
chevy volt at a cool 50,000 each. He
didn’t realize the reality of why we use coal to provide electricity across the
grid or oil to heat our homes or gas to drive a car – they are the cheapest and
most efficient forms of energy. The
facts are the only reason any green jobs exist is because they function wholly
on the backs of the tax paying citizens.
To see Obama at the last debate attempt to demonize the big oil
companies (which no one is ever going to love – including me) because they have
received up to 2 billion in tax payer subsidies – but the real shocker is the
fact that he gave 90 billion to green energy companies like Solyndra and those companies
donated millions to his campaign – I don’t like using my hard earned tax money
to be stolen by a fraud. Here is the
truth – Obama wants gas prices to sky rocket – that is why he has shut down any
new permits to drill oil in this country – so now oil companies have to
purchase land in order to drill in private – when what they had been doing is
paying the government huge fees in leasing government land – so his thought is
if the gas prices get high enough us idiot American will run to a green energy
source – and we would but we will go bankrupt.
The coal industry produces electricity at 3-5 cents per Killiwatt hour –
while solar/wind produce energy at $22 dollars and hour – our government has
given and continues to subsidize the wind/solar at $20 dollars – how stupid is
that. 90 billion going to private companies
– if this were going to something the extreme left hates – there would be pure
outrage.

-
To balance our Federal Budget – the reality is
Democrats have had control of the House and Senate since 2006 – and in 2010 the
people spoke and kicked many of them out – now they only control the
senate. So for the 4 years Obama has
been president our government runs without a budget. On a credit rating that has just been
downgraded for the first time in modern history. And due to be dropped again after the election
if Obama is re-elected. Which means our
national debt is going to grow faster – and sealing the fate of our children
and grandchildren. This proves again
that this man is not a leader – or he just doesn’t care.

-
Jobs Jobs Jobs – like our dufus VP said on the
campaign trail – Obama is all about that 3 letter word JOBS JOBS JOBS – what a
dufus. The reality is Obama spent the
first two years in office with complete control of all 3 houses – and he spent
if fighting for a healthcare bill that has no business playing a role in this
country under our constitution. I agree
there needs to be changes to our healthcare system but this is far from what
needs to be done and to have our speaker of the house at the time say (“we will
find out what is in it after we vote for it”)
you cant make this @!$%# up – crazy loony people running our
country. Scary.

What really sucks – is I bought into the hope and change – I
am a white male – but have 1/6 Native American Indian blood and I played
football in college – which brought me together with my now two best friends
who are African American – but I only use those terms to describe this here
when in reality they are my brothers.
They are in shock as to what has transpired and they do not believe a
word that comes out of our current sitting Presidents mouth. I could go on and on but I am sure I will
get bashed for daring to speak my mind and against the god in chief for so many
of you.

Byron Raum said:

An even more dispassionate view would be that you have to pass through 7.8% to get to 6%.

These are policies that are forced on us by the small government crowd. If government had not contracted, we would have had a better GDP and lower unemployment numbers. Certainly, it is possible to make the argument that Obama should not have reduced the size of government at such a crucial time, but it is not possible to make a reasonable argument that Mr Romney wouldn't make things worse by reducing the size of government even further and thereby shrinking the GDP and increasing unemployment.

Do tell me that you aren't considering the government to be an employment agency... or is this what you are implying? Since Romney wants to decrease the size of government, you are equating that with a rising unemployment number? What about the salaries of those people? Who pays for them? Right now the money borrowed is coming from the Fed in the form of a 24/7 printing press.

The whole purpose of reducing government is to lower spending. This in turn lowers the deficit. When the deficit is lowered, the increase to our national debt slows down. You have to have slow down before you can have a stoppage and then reversal. Right now our very large and cumbersome government is spending way too much money...

Red States are going Blue because the GOP are Fools !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steal from the Middle Class and give it to the 1% is not Cool !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blue is for Peace & Prosperity and Red is for Blood & Wars !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sarah-3043284

Gary Johnson has called for a constitutional amendment protecting equal marriage rights. Has Obama done that?

patriotfanforever

Gary Johnson has called for a balanced budget and the withdraw of all troops from the ME in his first year. Has Romney done that?

Fiscally conservative and socially accepting?

Gary Johnson 2012

. I will tell you what though, $5.39 a gal gas in CA will help the cause now won't it.

nope, not at all. Not while the government tries to steer it and pick winners and losers. Hey you think Henry Ford had the government outlaw horses? Nah the market eventually did. Electric cars will one day maybe the future. Right now, they're trying to force it. And while Obama talks big, he delivers zilch. So forrest, glad you have job and while you think its all republicans, you are seriously delusional.

At one point, Mitt Romney was doing 10-20 hours a week of volunteer church service: At the Republican National Convention, Mitt Romney's friend and fellow church member Grant Bennett talked about the Mitt Romney he knew.

Oh Good Lord - what a biased statement. Romney was a Bishop of the local congregation, and this is what Bishops are selected to do - in other words, he was doing his job. The motivation for doing this job is simple, it is a stepping stone to move up the ladder in the Mormon Church, and in Romney's case as simple as getting promoted from Bishop to Stake President. Is it a volunteer position? Yes. Is there a reward for doing well at the job? Yes, a promotion to another volunteer position within the Church. The motivation for exceeding in these positions? Higher placement in the many tiers in heaven and preferred status within the inner circles of the religion.

The Mormon religion is run very much like a corporation with one exception .. they pay is not in money, it is in afterlife rewards. Give the Romney glorification of his Mormon roles a rest. It has little to do with what happens here and now.

patriotic -- can you send the site where you get these idiotic comments? i want to see what else they have rather than wait for you to deliver them piecemeal.

thanks

Feisty - I have to laugh. I could have put money on Caesar and Brianb scampering to put me down. They are such predictable little boys. There is one missing I was sure would jump on the wagon but probably later.

Obama/Biden 2012

Dingle,

I'm voting for Obama. Sorry. We don't need an amendment protecting marriage equality. We already have an equal protection amendment, i.e. the 14th. We just need to fix the way we're applying it.

The Mormon religion is run very much like a corporation with on exception .. they pay is not in money, it is in afterlife rewards. Give the Romney glorification of his Mormon roles a rest. They have little to do with what happens here and now.

It shows he has a devotion to something greater than himself and is willing to give - not just money - but time in it's service. I mean hey - he could have spent those 10-20 hours a week writing a book about himself!

Forrest - Hey! How are you feeling? Like your new job? Hope the family is doing well.

I read your comments on electric cars. I'd have to agree with you about the charging stations... I don't think they've been a priority, but since I don't own an electric, I'm not paying much attention.

As you know, I disagree with you on several things... but that's only in honest jousting. While electricity is a well distributed, power source, it does take something to produce it. There's no free ride with electricity... it does cost something. Seems we've lost coal as a means.. according to the current administration... Nobody wants wind turbines in their backyard. We have a limited amount of hydro sources... Nuclear? Seems nobody wants it in their backyards either. Natural gas is about the most abundant source... but it's pretty clear that fuel cells cost less energy points than converting it to electricity.

It could be that there are few recharging stations around is because the grid isn't up to par for all that electricity transmission. Can you imagine the drain on the system if 100,000 vehicles were added to the grid? Maybe that's why the Volt didn't do so well.

Sarah-3043284

We don't need an amendment protecting marriage equality

I agree, but a least you're getting someone in GJ who is actually committed to protecting marriage equality.

I'm voting for Obama. Sorry

I hear that a lot. "I agree with Johnson on a lot of issues, but I'm voting for [insert candidate] anyway" Old habits are hard to break.

ahhh the stench of pseudo-liberal hate in the morning.

"The market will decide when it is the right time to create a whole infrastructure to accommodate electric cars. Right now -Spending billions for the hundreds of people with electric cars is foolish."

Not as foolish as 4 billion a year in subsidies for the oil industry.

You are not creating a "whole infrastructure to accommodate electric cars" the national grid is in sad shape this needs to be addressed irregardless of electric cars, the infrastructure for the charging of cars is just a local extension of a buildings distribution system to enable charging in the parking lots of shopping centers, apartment complexes, hotels, restaurants and ect, a tax credit or subsidies to encourage that work would create many jobs for local residents and small businesses and would be much more beneficial to the nation than 4 billion a year to the most profitable industry on the planet.

Really, willowbrook?

Actually, I am not wrong. One of Ohio's biggest industries is related to auto parts and manufacturing.

That is why they support your President.

I could have put money on Caesar and Brianb scampering to put me down.

Yep look to your petulant idol. I wouldnt consider a Hun someone to look up to. In reality Feisty is insignificant. so while you have Feisty hero worship on FR, remember one thing, she wouldnt get away with her crude behavior outside the trailer park. Back to calling people liars and stupid Seeking Approval.

Not as foolish as 4 billion a year in subsidies for the oil industry.

How much to Green energy? Hows Solyndra doing again? I know you think the gov should dictate what is and what isnt but do tell me how that is different again from Communism?

"The market will decide when it is the right time to create a whole infrastructure to accommodate electric cars. Right now -Spending billions for the hundreds of people with electric cars is foolish."

Not as foolish as 4 billion a year in subsidies for the oil industry.

You can't logically justify one sham by pointing out another.

Romney's strong performance was fueled by Lies, I'm sorry to say this but I think Romney is a Pathological Liar, this dude has a big Problem !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"So forrest, glad you have job"

Well thank you, so am I, but the fact is I have never been without a job since I was 17 years old, and I have often had more than one job. Except for my small consulting business I have always had union jobs, the difference now is that I am management, I find it strange that many complain about what I made under union contracts, because right now I have never been paid so much to do so little, the hardest thing about my current position is traveling around the country. I try to drive as much as possible but often have to fly which is no fun, you have to take off your shoes, belt, everything out of your pockets, laptops, and shaving cream out of your bag, step into the X-ray machine ect. Those stupid terrorists should have had a bra bomber, that would be worth waiting in line an extra hour for.

Patriotic American U.S.A.

Romney's strong performance was fueled by Lies, I'm sorry to say this but I think Romney is a Pathological Liar, this dude has a big Problem !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

• Only Barack Obama and the democrats are honest and truthful at all times, even in the face of dire consequences for wrongdoing. Of course, any alleged wrongdoing by a democrat is simply a smear tactic of lies by republicans. Democrats have been put here by god to save the USA from the evil child starvers, senior killers, liers, thieves, water poisoners, racists, haters of the environment and whatever else is evil and embraced by republicans openly. Democrats are our only hope to preserve the planet even if other countries refuse to act to protect it. Each time a democrat is elected you can almost hear the earth give a sigh of relief. All hail to the great and saintly democrats! All hail to the democrats, holders of complete honesty, integrity and TRUTH, leading the American people to the land of milk and honey.

The official congratulations to Venezuela tells us where all of this is headed.

Please, about the lying............, do you really believe the one you support does not lie? Are you really convinced that he is the first elected official in history to be an honest and forthright individual...? LoLzZz : P

You're supposed to be smarter than the ones who follow the challenger.

"Ohh he's a liar and a bully..." LoLzZz please is that all you can come up with?

It sounds like school children wimpering about a "meanie" on the playground.

If you dont think that the GOP/American Taliban are tanking the United States Economy on Purpose to unseat President Obama you have had your head in the sand for 4 years, and small businesses know it

Reuters

| 09 Oct 2012 | 07:49 AM ET

U.S. small business sentiment weakened in September for the fourth time in five months as fewer owners expected to add staff and make capital investments.

The National Federation of Independent Business said on Tuesday its optimism index fell 0.1 point to 92.8 last month.

The drop is a sign the U.S. economy is taking a hit from uncertainty over the possibility of tax hikes and government spending cuts next year, said William Dunkelberg, chief economist at the NFIB.

"Owners are in maintenance mode — spending only where necessary and not hiring, expanding or ordering more inventories until the future becomes more certain,'' Dunkelberg said.

He suggested uncertainty over the outcome of the country's upcoming general election is also probably hurting sentiment.

The NFIB had already released on Thursday the labor components of its small business optimism index, which showed a net 4 percent of firms were expecting to create jobs in September, down from 10 percent the prior month.

That weighed heavily on the overall index. Also holding back optimism, the share of firms planning capital investments in the next three to six months fell to 21 percent from 24 percent.

The U.S. economy has grown at a lackluster pace this year, which has hurt President Barack Obama's chances of winning the Nov. 6 election.

Opinion polls point to a very tight race between Obama and Republican challenger Mitt Romney.

And looming over the economic outlook, the federal government is scheduled to tighten its belt severely in January unless lawmakers pass an alternative plan.

Sarah - I read your post so I will copy some of it and provide my take on many of your cognitive points.

You can express your belief that marriage equality isn't an "American Value" if you would like. Freedom of expression, is after all, an American Value. However, I think it's pretty hard to argue that equal protection under the law isn't right up there with our freedom to express our opinions...

I believe in equal protection under the law, but I don't believe in extension of protections. Equal is just fine with me. To extend additional rights for certain people because they have what is perceived by many, a sexual preference is a little beyond equal. Considering that only about 6% of society is homosexual, does that mean they should be granted additional rights? Would you agree that other groups of people falling into a 6% category should be granted additional rights... and I can name many types of people that could fall within a 6% category. What is it about gays that automatically grants them additional rights? I'll tell you... it's because they are activists in their agenda.

Now this case was based on race, BUT to support gay marriage, all you have to do is change race to GENDER, another protected class. PLUS, the 14th Amendment has a little something called the "Privileges and Immunities" clause. Which means, you can't deny the citizens, their privileges, or immunities, based on those classes. In this case, that'd be gender.

There's one problem with your theory. Race and gender are distributed through no choice of our own. We can't help how we were born. In your theory, homosexuals were born that way... and that's not proven. Even DNA tests are not certain that in every case an extra gene is evident... or the XY is always an XX or YY. Color of the skin is 100 percent evident.

Since the only difference between a gay marriage and a straight marriage, is the gender of a single party, what is inherent to that single party's gender which would lead to bestiality, incest, polygamy, pedophilia, or marrying inanimate objects? Remember, you're ONLY changing ONE person's GENDER, so logically, it must be something within that one person's gender, which would lead you to believe gay marriage would open the door to any of those things, so... WHAT IS IT? Why would gay marriage lead to the repeal of the laws we have on the books, banning all those things?

Or, in easier terms...

Why doesn't STRAIGHT marriage lead to any of that?

I removed the bold so it would read better and not contrast the other words.

Your statement and question leaves a lot of unanswered questions... Inherent in many people is the built in ability to determine what is right and wrong. You know it's wrong to steal. You know it's wrong to murder. You also have this built in ability to determine other rights from wrongs. Most people do. Not everyone, but most people. In the quest for keeping these two opposites from colliding, crossing lines and maintaining your stable path, ask yourself the hard question... was mankind built to attract the opposite sex, or not. If we were, then wouldn't it be correct to say that trying to attract the same sex would be out of the norm? I'm not speaking of legalities here, but basic human nature.

"Forrest - Hey! How are you feeling? Like your new job? Hope the family is doing well."

Doing fine Brianb, thanks for asking, it seems I have beat the cancer, the new job is great, the family is still grieving for lost loved ones, but only time can heal that. I agree electricity is not free and needs a source of energy for generation but the options for that primary source are many, and different sources can be blended on the grid. Those decisions are ours alone to make, no other nation can interrupt our supply of electricity without physically attacking us.

Mitt Robme pulls even with the President in some polls and the stock Market is down 100 pts, The people in the stock Market Know that if Mitt wins POTUS the stock market will crash for the 3rd time under Republican Presidents. If you value your retirement nest-egg you probably want to vote for POTUS Obama he has shown how to Double the Stock Market

Smitty 1118, in response to my contention that most of California's budget woes stem from Proposition 13, wrote:

"David, you knows the above statement isn't true. California is in the red due to over-regulating, and over-spending. And which party has been in power, causing this to happen? Yes, those dysfunctional Democrats who just don't have any fiscal accountability in their minds."

Acquaint yourself with Proposition 13, before you write provably false assertions. Proposition 13 wrote into the Constitution, two separate issues. The first was taxation of real estate. (I'm not arguing that reform wasn't necessary. It was. But Jarvis-Gann/Prop. 13 was a meat axe that should have been handled by an almost totally unresponsive legislature.) The taxation of real property was limited to a very small annual increase, UNLESS the property changed hands. Thus, two identical properties could be taxed at wildly differing amounts, yet receive identical services. Real property tax collections have lagged considerably as a consequence. That amounts to literally billions of dollars annually.

Secondly, Prop. 13 also created a super-majority requirement for the enactment of certain new taxes, a hurdle almost impossible to clear. Ironically, the 2/3 super-majority requirement was approved by less than 2/3 of the voters. Additionally, California law states that a ballot proposition shall deal with only one issue.

The law should have been declared unconstitutional, but at the time, the governing bodies of California realized the citizens were quite upset about skyrocketing taxes. The Executive, led by Jerry Brown, who had initially opposed Prop. 13, embraced the new law. The legislature, was now controlled by Republicans even though they represented only a minority. They have used this power like a bludgeon, just as McConnell abuses the filibuster in the Senate, and have refused to increase taxes. For a party to truly hold power in California, they must hold the Governor's office and hold a 2/3 majority in both the Senate and the Assembly. As far as the court, well, it simply didn't have guts enough to disqualify 13.

Name one of these regulations that is crushing business. Just one. That's a BS mantra.

Now, you can do what all good and obedient right-wingers do and ignore the facts, or you can take the time to do a few minutes of homework and learn about the ongoing disaster called Prop. 13.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Bev,

For some strange reason, everytime I see that commercial about "happier than a witch in a broom factory" Snookie-Joe comes to mind!

Feisty, so do I!

GALLUP DAILY

Oct 6-8, 2012 – Updates daily at 1 p.m. ET; reflects one-day change

Obama Approval
53%
+2

Obama Disapproval
42%
-2

Registered Voters

Obama
49%
-1

Romney
46%
+1

In Romney's case because he is a pathological liar and people do not trust him or like him, once debate viewers begin looking closer at Mitt's performance, once the "fact-checkers" point out the lies,

I see the lie narrative is still out there even though it failed so bad when it first appeared they switched to the save Big Bird Narrative. Now that is failing what will Obama and the media's narrative be next. Polling data that shows no progress in the swing states? My bet is NBC will show no ROmney bounce even if they have to take a +11 Democrat sample to get it.

the study’s authors has since conceded that if those deductions are considered and if economic growth is taken into account, Romney’s plan could indeed add up. Another economist, from Princeton, has demonstrated that Romney’s numbers do add up; his analysis assumes the reforms would trigger 3 percent growth. (If you think that 3 percent growth is unrealistically optimistic, you’re probably assuming Obama will be re-elected.) And the American Enterprise Institute has gone even further, showing the Romney plan to be revenue-neutral assuming it caused a mere 0.1 percent increase in economic growth.

Bottom line: Obama’s line about Romney’s “$5 trillion tax cut,” which he kept repeating during the debate even after being corrected, was false. Also false are the Obama ads claiming Romney plans to raise middle class taxes. But it’s Romney, according to Team Obama and its allies, who’s the liar.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/08/when-all-else-fails-call-romney-a-liar/#ixzz28p0s6hyj

LogicReguired

Bottom line: Obama’s line about Romney’s “$5 trillion tax cut,” which he kept repeating during the debate even after being corrected, was false. Also false are the Obama ads claiming Romney plans to raise middle class taxes. But it’s Romney, according to Team Obama and its allies, who’s the liar.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/08/when-all-else-fails-call-romney-a-liar/#ixzz28p0s6hyj

Logic you do know F***ker Carlson is not credible???

Obama Approval Rating up at 53% - latest Gallup poll.

What say you now righties?

I'm sick of all the whining, Romney lied about this and that.....how short memories are....Does it ring a bell when Obama was running for president his first term he said....

"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time
I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We
will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." What candidate
Obama explained in corporate media interviews was a little different. He said
repeatedly that he would begin a withdrawal his first month in office, pull out
one to two brigades per month and be done in 16 months. That did not
happen.

Now how do you think the families feel? They were counting on having their loved ones home, the disappointment they must have felt, the betrayal. But I guess that WASN'T a lie?

Or what about the fact the president is a racist, he went to a racist church for years, considered the pastor a "close personal" friend, that he had over for dinner MANY times. The pastor has not once tried to hide his opinions or feelings about white ppl. Yet Obama had NO clue, was totally clueless??? BS! If Obama didn't agree with what the pastor was spewing every Sunday he would have found a different church.

Or how about the fact the president hates the United states. His wife has said herself she was never proud of USA until her husband got elected.

Also the so called president just gave the LEGAL American jobs away to illegal immigrants. Was arrogant enough to even bypass congress to do this so he would get the Hispanic vote. For someone that has the election in the bag why did he need to pander for votes? His first term he needed to toe the line to get re elected now with this being last term, he has free reign to dig America into a hole we may NEVER climb out of IF he is elected. He has nothing to lose the last term.

I see the ignorant posts that say, vote demo. clear across the board. I guess it doesn't matter if they suck or not as long as they are demo. Talk about stupidity. But it will be that group of frenzied democrats that will be scratching their heads when their so called president turns on them, and they will be the first ones to say, I didn't vote for him.

Romney has made his fair share of mistakes as all humans do, but he has never even came close to being on the same level as Obama. Sorry Romney has NEVER sunk as low as Obama. A lot of Americans are even ashamed to claim his as the president.

And as far as the unemployment rate goes, isn't it funny they found all these "miscalculations AFTER Obama started losing. IF Obama gets on the upswing again, you will see the true numbers released, that were "miscalculated in his favor, AFTER the election of course.

IndependentinSD said:

If you dont think that the GOP/American Taliban are tanking the United States Economy on Purpose to unseat President Obama you have had your head in the sand for 4 years, and small businesses know it

ROFL!!!!!!!!! That is too funny because the article you posted said nothing of the sort. Of course liberals will always spin anything to make the GOP look bad even if it involves lies.

Brian,

I believe in equal protection under the law, but I don't believe in extension of protections. Equal is just fine with me. To extend additional rights for certain people because they have what is perceived by many, a sexual preference is a little beyond equal. Considering that only about 6% of society is homosexual, does that mean they should be granted additional rights? Would you agree that other groups of people falling into a 6% category should be granted additional rights... and I can name many types of people that could fall within a 6% category. What is it about gays that automatically grants them additional rights? I'll tell you... it's because they are activists in their agenda.

Three points...

1. I approached this as gender based, which is already protected. Right now, you have access to privileges via your marriage, that other's don't because of the gender of one of the parties attempting to enter the contract.

2. Second, seeing as you have access to those privileges and others don't, were they to meet your level of privileges, would put them on par with you, not give them more then you.

3. Your assumption that you can name numerous groups that would then want "extra rights" or "expansion of rights" is moot. This is about contract law, and what governs it. Gay people have legal capacity for informed consent, ergo anyone who has that under the law should be allowed to contract. This isn't changing what decides who can enter a contract, it applies the already in place "what" to include gay people, who, by the way are allowed to contract IN ALL OTHER AREAS.

There's one problem with your theory. Race and gender are distributed through no choice of our own. We can't help how we were born. In your theory, homosexuals were born that way... and that's not proven. Even DNA tests are not certain that in every case an extra gene is evident... or the XY is always an XX or YY. Color of the skin is 100 percent evident.

One point...

1. It doesn't matter. This is already based on gender, which you agree is trait we're born with. The only difference between a "straight" marriage and a "gay" one, is the gender of one party, ergo, logically that gender is what's stopping certain people from entering this contract.

Your statement and question leaves a lot of unanswered questions... Inherent in many people is the built in ability to determine what is right and wrong. You know it's wrong to steal. You know it's wrong to murder. You also have this built in ability to determine other rights from wrongs. Most people do. Not everyone, but most people. In the quest for keeping these two opposites from colliding, crossing lines and maintaining your stable path, ask yourself the hard question... was mankind built to attract the opposite sex, or not. If we were, then wouldn't it be correct to say that trying to attract the same sex would be out of the norm? I'm not speaking of legalities here, but basic human nature.

One point...

1. All of that doesn't matter. Your morals and beliefs on what is right/wrong, are personal and individual to you. Our laws in this country, and things that we ban or make illegal, are based on substantive, proven, harm and infringement on other's rights. Adultery, most would say, is immoral, but NOT illegal.

Romney/Ryans plan for Seniors

Little Timmy came over to Gran-ma and Gran-pas House to celebrate Gran-pas 80th Birthday, when little Timmy got there he was surprised to Gran-pa not home, he asked Gran-ma where is Gran-pa and Gran-ma said he is working at McDonald's so he can pay the extra costs of Romney/Ryans Health Voucher, and he will be Home soon and then you and gran-pa can have some cake, Little Timmy said what about Cake for you Gran-ma? Granny said I cant Timmy I got to go and work the 2nd shift at McDonald's to pay for our Medication that Romney/Ryan has increased to $800.00 more a year. Granny told Little Timmy I voted for Romney/Ryan I believed all the Lies they told and now I wish I didn't. Romney/Ryan stole the Gold from our GOLDEN Years said Granny as she left the house

Obama/Biden 2012 You, Your Children and Grandparents Lives Depend on it

Beverly in Chicago

Obama Approval Rating up at 53% - latest Gallup poll.

Romney 49%, Obama 47% Among Likely Voters -

Just taken from Gallop.Com.

Beverly you lie.

WHY DOES PAUL RYAN DELIBERATELY VOTE TO MAKE THE NATION FAIL?

BECAUSE IT IS PROFITABLE FOR ROMNEY AND RYAN AND TO THE GREEDY 1% RICH PEOPLE!

The night President Obama took office Paul Ryan pledged against America economy recovery. Pledged to vote against every bill that would help make Obam look good. Ryan and repubs pledged to vote against the nation just to make Obama a one term president. The whiner weinermobile boy complains that the economy wasn't good enough......WELL DUHHHHH!!!! Repubs block removing tax breaks for companies taking businesses off shore, Repubs block bill to give tax breaks for jobs to come back to America. Repubs even blocked health care for 911 responders, repubs blocked removing subsidies from big oil when execs said they did not need them.........Welll DUHHHH! RYAN.........Point the finger at yourself .....whiner!

@BeverlyinChicago, - Your posting of Gallup poll is funny because even the Huffington Post has an article of how that poll will change in Romney's favor soon.

On Tuesday, just one day after reporting two different results on the presidential race among registered voters, the Gallup organization announced it will begin reporting on the polling results of those it deems most likely to vote.

The shift will "wipe out" the 5-point advantage for President Barack Obama among registered voters, according to USA Today Washington Bureau Chief Susan Page, because "Republicans are more energized and more likely to actually go and vote." - Huffington Post

The results of the new Pew Research Center survey, also released on Tuesday, showed a similar result. Obama and Republican nominee Mitt Romney were tied among all registered voters (with 46 percent each), but Romney led by 4 percentage points (49 percent to 45 percent) among likely voters.

I'm not one who cares about polling because you can never tell who will vote and all that matters is the election day poll, but since you are listing Gallup I will throw in some Rassmusen numbers for you to chew on.

In the 11 swing states, Mitt Romney earns 49% support to Obama’s 47%. One percent (1%) likes another candidate, and three percent (3%) are undecided.

This is the first time Romney has led the daily Swing State Survey since September 19. Until today, the president had led for 17 of the previous 19 days, and the candidates had been tied twice. This survey is based on findings from the previous seven days, with most of the responses now coming since Romney’s debate win last Wednesday night.

Forty-six percent (46%) of these Swing State voters are now “certain” they will vote for Romney and will not change their minds. Forty percent (40%) are certain they will vote for the president.

Romney & Netanyahu want to start World War Three, don't worry, Mitt & Annie's boys will stay home !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It shows he has a devotion to something greater than himself and is willing to give - not just money - but time in it's service. I mean hey - he could have spent those 10-20 hours a week writing a book about himself!

@Q22 - Do you mean a self-centered book like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Turnaround-Crisis-Leadership-Olympic-Games/dp/0895260840

or this one:

http://www.amazon.com/No-Apology-Believe-Mitt-Romney/dp/0312671733/ref=pd_sim_b_1

Romney is obviously one greedy selfish bastard based upon the number of autobiographies he has published. As Santorum says, the right-wing party has no intellect. You poor folks can't even bother to find out if Romney wrote a book or two.

WHY DO REPUBLICANS HATE SENIORS? Seniors vote to protect their Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and the Post Office. Republicons want to privatize it all for greedy profit!

WHY DO REPUBLICONS CREATE VOTER SUPPRESSION LAWS TO STOP THE ELDERLY FROM VOTING? Seniors vote to protect their Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and the Post Office. Repubs want to privatize it all for greedy profit! Romney and Ryan want to kill those programs for their greedy rich friends who want part of that action! Republicons plans tp privatize everything leads to more profits for the Romney greedy rich and the elimination of programs that serve seniors and America well!!!!

PROTECT SENIORS FROM THE GREEDY ROMNEY/RYAN PLANS!

Vote President Obama/Biden and Team Democratic Party 2012, protect the elderly and America from the greedy rich!

Latest NBC Shows Obama should rule the world. Nov 6th Bev. Remember also to bring your 'nightstick' with you Bev. You never know when you might have to 'convince' someone the error of their ways Bev.

NO MORE 4 44

Logic you do know F***ker Carlson is not credible???

Well Carlson didn't write the article nor is he the economist, from Princeton, who backed the Romney as well as many other economist and think tanks listed. I tend to believe economist from Princeton before you and your dear leader.

Obama Approval Rating up at 53% - latest Gallup poll.

What say you now righties?

I believe I answered this in my post #1.201

Sarah said:

All of that doesn't matter. Your morals and beliefs on what is right/wrong, are personal and individual to you. Our laws in this country, and things that we ban or make illegal, are based on substantive, proven, harm and infringement on other's rights. Adultery, most would say, is immoral, but NOT illegal.

What you fail to admit is that it does matter. Murder is illegal, stealing is illegal... those were the two I mentioned. I was using them to make the point that we have an inherent ability to distinguish the difference between what is right and what is wrong. While you are taking the legal stance, I am taking the moral stance. Legality has been so diluted with all the case laws, additional laws and all the legal community has added to this country's legal system, I'd trust my inherent ability to judge what is right from wrong... and it does fall in line with most laws...

You don't want to admit that there is a moral issue here. You want to exclude it from all discussion and that can't happen. Many laws are based on moral issues... they have been and will continue to be so...

LogicReguired

Politifact has rated Romney's "$5 trillion tax cut as a half truth, That means it is a LIE.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/oct/04/barack-obama/obama-says-romneys-plan-5-trillion-tax-cut/

Romney's tax promises, The New Republic's Jonathan Cohn argued, were one of his most misleading moments during the debate. They were "so vague that the statements could mean absolutely nothing."

===============================================

So tell me, how can you trust a person speaks in half- truths and won't reveal his taxes?

4 more 4 44

Obama/Biden 2012

Patriotic American U.S.A.

Romney & Netanyahu want to start World War Three, don't worry, Mitt & Annie's boys will stay home !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

do you stand on the corner of the street like the town crier and repeat this jibberish?

ROMNEY THE LIAR< NEWT CALLS ROMNEY A LIAR< CONSERVATIVES CALL ROMNEY A LIAR. Well....Both sides know Romney as a liar! The repub plan is to lie often enough so people believe it. Romney lies because he is the NOWHERE MAN......The only accomplishments are those of a greedy person wanting what everyone else has. What is lacking in Romney, is the ability to be a man, to care for his fellow man..He thinks his fellow man is a burden, .......Well Romney......Our fellow men aren't a burden.....he ain't heavy, he's my brother.

Below is from usnews.com Jan 2012

Mitt Romney's Lies

From '100,000 new jobs' to Obama's jobs record to his first name, Mitt Romney has a truth problem

By Robert Schlesinger

January 12, 2012 RSS Feed Print

As his briefly front-running campaign sunk in the polls under relentless punishment from Mitt Romney's "super PAC" allies in the days before the Iowa caucuses, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich caused a brief stir by matter-of-factly telling a TV interviewer that Romney is a "liar."

"Why are you saying he's a liar?" his apparently shocked interlocutor pressed. The notion that Mitt Romney routinely makes statements lacking a factual basis should not come as a surprise to anyone who has followed the campaign. On the left, Paul Krugman has marveled that no other candidate has ever "lied so freely, with so little compunction." On the right, The American Conservative's Daniel Larison wondered about why he lies, concluding that the former Massachusetts governor is "so contemptuous of the people he tells lies to that he never thinks he will be found out."

FOX NEWS CALL RYAN A LIAR!

Why do republicons run liars for their candidates???

From Huffington post 8-30-12

According to Fox News columnist Sally Kohn, vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan's speech at the Republican National Convention on Wednesday "was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech."

"On this measure, while it was Romney who ran the Olympics, Ryan earned the gold," Kohn wrote.

In a surprising move, Fox News joined CNN, The Huffington Post, the Washington Post's Wonkblog, and ThinkProgress in publishing a fact-check of the Republican vice presidential nominee's speech, finding that the speech was full of lies and misleading assertions.

Kohn, who describes herself as a "progressive voice on Fox News," wrote in her Thursday column that though Ryan came off as likable during his speech, his misrepresentations and omissions "caused a much larger problem for himself and his running mate."

In contrast, several Fox News commentators praised Ryan's speech on air after the event, without mentioning his misleading claims, according to Media Matters.

In her column, Kohn called out four lies in Ryan's speech. She critcized Ryan for blaming President Obama for the shutdown of a General Motors plant in Janesville, Wis., that actually was closed during the Bush administration. She also knocked Ryan for pinning the blame for S&P's downgrade of U.S. debt on Obama, when Republicans in Congress helped precipitate the downgrade by threatening to refuse to raise the debt ceiling.

"The good news is that the Romney-Ryan campaign has likely created dozens of new jobs among the legions of additional fact checkers that media outlets are rushing to hire to sift through the mountain of cow dung that flowed from Ryan’s mouth," Kohn wrote.

Also the so called president just gave the LEGAL American jobs away to illegal immigrants.

Oooh, we have a live wire out there. The president giving away LEGAL jobs. I'm curious to know what Obama is doing about those illegal jobs. Shouldn't we be concerned about illegal jobs going to illegal immigrants. Worse yet, what about illegal jobs getting in the hands of legal immigrants, or, and folks, brace yourself for this horror of horrors, illegal jobs being filled by American born citizens. There goes the country, time to go commie hunting.

Hey, I'm out of tinfoil. Wendy illegally stole my legal roll. Anyone have some extra legal tinfoil?

P.S. Please don't offer up your illegal tinfoil. I ain't a interested.

Why do Reich Wing Neo Con Knuckle Dragging Fascists American Taliban Call Medicaid, Social Security, Unemployment, Entitlements? We all Know that they are called INSURANCES that we all have paid into our Adult Lives, They use the word entitlements like a thief who uses a screw driver to STEAL YOUR CAR.

Vote straight Democrat this November, because a world of Robme/Ryan is a world of 2 more unfunded Wars, 6 Trillion more in Debt, and Seniors dieing in the Streets

At least you concede President Obama belonged to a church and not a CULT like Willard does...

I'm glad to see the lefts religious bigotry on full display for Americans to see.

Funny, that cult as you describe it, has not blown anyone up for bashing them and their beliefs, yet you are always silent on the religion that does kill its critics. What a brave person you must be.

At least you concede President Obama belonged to a church and not a CULT like Willard does...

did Willards church God Damn America?

Vote straight Democrat this November,

as you attempt to promote a one party system yourself. You call the republicans Reichwing facists while you support being a Commie.

ROMNEY FOREIGN POLICY EXPERIENCE: I can see France from my offshore accounts.

Romney can see war profits coming for himself because he hired 17 of 24 of his advisers from the Bush/Cheney regime. Why elect Bush/Cheney/Romney/Ryan for more war profits for themselves?Wasn't killing thousands of our troops and thousands more wounded and more dying everdy enough damage to our country. WHY GIVE BUSH/CHENEY/ROMNEY MORE$$$ for AMERICAN BLOOD SHED?

RYAN FOREIGN POLICY EXPERIENCE: I can see Milwaukee from my window.

Vote President Obama and Team America 2012

Forrest Grump 2.0 said:

"Forrest - Hey! How are you feeling? Like your new job? Hope the family is doing well."

Doing fine Brianb, thanks for asking, it seems I have beat the cancer, the new job is great, the family is still grieving for lost loved ones, but only time can heal that. I agree electricity is not free and needs a source of energy for generation but the options for that primary source are many, and different sources can be blended on the grid. Those decisions are ours alone to make, no other nation can interrupt our supply of electricity without physically attacking us.

I'm glad to hear you beat the C. I'll bet you are happy to get off the juice. Has your hair grown back in? One of my favorite people is no longer here... She didn't make it.. and it's very sad.

Our electricity is abundant and that's no joke... but if those that hate us ever get their hands on a high altitude electromagnetic bomb, it could disrupt our system in a flash. Let's hope that never happens.

Brian,

Yes, I'm taking the legal stance, because we are a nation of LAWS. In my first post, I said you can express and not believe in marriage equality, you can think it's wrong, dirty, deviant, unnatural, yada, yada, yada, all you want, but here's the clincher...

That doesn't mean you get to ban it.

All of those morals you say we've legislated, i.e. killing and stealing, pass the standard of legality, I already mentioned. That goes for any "morality based" legislation. That's WHY some things widely considered immoral are still legal. That's WHY things that used to be outlawed based on "morality" no longer are. It's a trend you'll see over time, if you look at the history of law.

Those things cause harm and infringe on the rights of others. They have a direct negative, substantive effect on other citizens, i.e. they lose something. They lose their lives or their property... How does two gay people marrying, have a direct, negative, substantive effect on you?

If this weren't the case, and we did base our laws on morality, well what happens when my morals, conflict with your morals? Who's morals win? Why are your morals right and someone else's wrong? I guarantee you, no two people have the exact same moral code.

Or do we base it, on something with more substance? Like legality?

has not blown anyone up for bashing them and their beliefs,

Hmmm...

I must of missed it, of course you'll provide a link to the where Reverend Wright's church blew someone up!

Much appreciated!

To all liberals posting today, tell you what I'm gonna do for you. I will hire a cruise ship, all of you get on, I will arrange to have you taken out about 1500 miles into the atlantic, run out of gas,then you can take turns paddling back. That should get you back by about November 10th.

I must of missed it, of course you'll provide a link to the where Reverend Wright's church blew someone up!

you also missed where he said nothing about Revend Wrights Church. However I believe he was talking about Muslims and their tolerant religion. the same pyschos the left love to defend.

IndependentinSD Said:

Why do Reich Wing Neo Con Knuckle Dragging Fascists American Taliban

Have any more adjectives you can add to your agitation?

ROFL - liberals, ya just gotta love them.

SeekingSanity

31yearsofservice - first, thank you for your service to all of us.

When I read your comments I was disappointed you picked on Feisty and Bev but left out people like White Collar Auto, nojo, geo-, caesar - who make disgusting and crude comments. Frankly, your bias makes it appear you have your own agenda and it is clearly not impartial. The names I've mentioned spend as much time on this site as anyone. Did you also accuse them of receiving government help? No, of course not.

So your appearingly civil post really wasn't so much, was it? And, you're clearly a Republican who wants to appear unbiased when you are just the opposite.

See, when you're fair and unbiased - you might have a case. You proved you have none.

Thanks Seeking Sanity

They can dish it out; but when comes back around to them they can't take it.

4 more 4 44

Obama/Biden 2012

Logic Required

Harvey Rosen, the Princeton economist discussed here, assumes full employment and a growth rate of 3% over current growth to make Romney's proposed 20% tax rate cut and elimination of all deductions revenue neutral.

He further assumes there will be no negative effects on industries hurt by eliminating deductions that favor their product. For instance, elimination of the home mortgage interest deduction will negatively affect the housing industry. Rosen does not account for this.

Last, his analysis is only for people with incomes between $100,000 and $200,000 per year and his result indicates they would pay more taxes under Romney's plan than they do now.

As usual with Romney, the devil is in the details.

Romney, the fuzzzy math candidate.

OBAMA 2012.....for America's Future.

Sarah-3043284 said:

Brian,

Yes, I'm taking the legal stance, because we are a nation of LAWS. In my first post, I said you can express and not believe in marriage equality, you can think it's wrong, dirty, deviant, unnatural, yada, yada, yada, all you want, but here's the clincher...

That doesn't mean you get to ban it.

It's not a matter of banning it. It's never been allowed before so is the word "ban" really correct? Gay marriage has never been recognized. If they want it recognized, let them take it through the proper legal channels... I don't have a problem with them doing it... but don't complain when it doesn't make it through...

What you may not be seeing Sarah, is that there are a lot of people that don't want gay marriage recognized. While we are a nation of laws, we are also a nation that has a large population of religious people. You may not have any belief system, but that doesn't mean that a lot of other people in this country feel like you.

It's the economy, stupid. If anybody's voting primarily on social issues, they've picked their candidate a long time ago. Any undecided voter that doesn't know the respective party's stance on gay marriage is probably too dim to vote.

LogicReguired

@BeverlyinChicago, - Your posting of Gallup poll is funny because even the Huffington Post has an article of how that poll will change in Romney's favor soon.

Logic, Unlike Huff Puff's prediction I don't focus on negativity.

I'm influenced by the reality of the jobs numbers, Romney's continual flips & LIES, his beating the wars drums, his un-likability, and lack of foreign policy experience will cause his lead to dissipate.

4more 4 44

Obama/Biden 2012

Beverly said: They can dish it out; but when comes back around to them they can't take it.

Beverly - the real question is... Will you be able to take it when Obama loses?

The economic-social experiment from the 1980's Reagan regime of Supply Side Economics has been a total failure. It has brought us to the brink of collapse because the structural framework that supports this country has been undermined by those parasites on top who are always looking after their self interests over that of the nation.

The key to revitalizing this nation would come from putting the tax on Capital Gains at 35% instead of 15% and to stop importing the substandard products from places like China.

If this economic war of attrition against the middle class is not stopped we will collapse as no form of government can be sustained from having the majority of people living in poverty who are barely able to make ends meet much less pay taxes, while the most affluent are unwilling to share any of their wealth through either taxation or fair and livable wages.

The Conservatives who brought us to this point are the lowest form of traitors; they sold out their country for money.

Brian,

It's not a matter of banning it. It's never been allowed before so is the word "ban" really correct? Gay marriage has never been recognized. If they want it recognized, let them take it through the proper legal channels... I don't have a problem with them doing it... but don't complain when it doesn't make it through...

Yes, the word "ban" is correct, because the contract laws of this country have been in place prior to DOMA. DOMA banned certain people, from entering certain contracts, based on gender.

What you may not be seeing Sarah, is that there are a lot of people that don't want gay marriage recognized. While we are a nation of laws, we are also a nation that has a large population of religious people. You may not have any belief system, but that doesn't mean that a lot of other people in this country feel like you.

Again, it doesn't matter. We're a Republic, the majority doesn't get to vote on the rights of the minority. The majority of southerners didn't want to desegregate, either. Rights are looked at through the lens of the law, not the lens of majority rule. If they were, ALL of our rights would be subject to the whim of the majority.

Most people on here are democrats, should we vote on whether republicans are legally allowed to express their opinion on Newsvine?

h engbers - and that's the only way Romney would win. But then, Republicans are used to cheating to win elections - it's all you have when you run such disgraceful candidates!

Obama/Biden 2012

Hey Illogical One!

You locate a source yet to back up your claim or you just gonna run and hide?

Updated election forecasting model still points to Romney win, University of Colorado study says

An update to an election forecasting model announced by two University of Colorado professors in August continues to project that Mitt Romney will win the 2012 presidential election.

According to their updated analysis, Romney is projected to receive 330 of the total 538 Electoral College votes. President Barack Obama is expected to receive 208 votes -- down five votes from their initial prediction -- and short of the 270 needed to win.

The new forecast by political science professors Kenneth Bickers of CU-Boulder and Michael Berry of CU Denver is based on more recent economic data than their original Aug. 22 prediction. The model itself did not change.

"We continue to show that the economic conditions favor Romney even though many polls show the president in the lead," Bickers said. "Other published models point to the same result, but they looked at the national popular vote, while we stress state-level economic data."

While many election forecast models are based on the popular vote, the model developed by Bickers and Berry is based on the Electoral College and is the only one of its type to include more than one state-level measure of economic conditions. They included economic data from all 50 states and the District of Columbia.

Their original prediction model was one of 13 published in August in PS: Political Science & Politics, a peer-reviewed journal of the American Political Science Association. The journal has published collections of presidential election models every four years since 1996, but this year the models showed the widest split in outcomes, Berry said. Five predicted an Obama win, five forecast a Romney win, and three rated the 2012 race as a toss-up.

The Bickers and Berry model includes both state and national unemployment figures as well as changes in real per capita income, among other factors. The new analysis includes unemployment rates from August rather than May, and changes in per capita income from the end of June rather than March. It is the last update they will release before the election.

Of the 13 battleground states identified in the model, the only one to change in the update was New Mexico -- now seen as a narrow victory for Romney. The model foresees Romney carrying New Mexico, North Carolina, Virginia, Iowa, New Hampshire, Colorado, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Florida. Obama is predicted to win Michigan and Nevada.

In Colorado, which Obama won in 2008, the model predicts that Romney will receive 53.3 percent of the vote to Obama's 46.7 percent, with only the two major parties considered.

While national polls continue to show the president in the lead, "the president seems to be reaching a ceiling at or below 50 percent in many of these states," Bickers said. "Polls typically tighten up in October as people start paying attention and there are fewer undecided voters."

The state-by-state economic data used in their model have been available since 1980. When these data were applied retroactively to each election year, the model correctly classifies all presidential election winners, including the two years when independent candidates ran strongly: 1980 and 1992. It also correctly estimates the outcome in 2000, when Al Gore won the popular vote but George W. Bush won the election through the Electoral College.

In addition to state and national unemployment rates, the authors analyzed changes in personal income from the time of the prior presidential election. Research shows that these two factors affect the major parties differently: Voters hold Democrats more responsible for unemployment rates, while Republicans are held more responsible for fluctuations in personal income.

Accordingly -- and depending largely on which party is in the White House at the time -- each factor can either help or hurt the major parties disproportionately.

In an examination of other factors, the authors found that none of the following had a statistically significant effect on whether a state ultimately went for a particular candidate: The location of a party's national convention, the home state of the vice president or the partisanship of state governors.

The authors also provided caveats. Their model had an average error rate of five states and 28 Electoral College votes. Factors they said may affect their prediction include the timeframe of the economic data used in the study and that states very close to a 50-50 split may fall in an unexpected direction due to factors not included in the model.

"As scholars and pundits well know, each election has unique elements that could lead one or more states to behave in ways in a particular election that the model is unable to correctly predict," they wrote.

All 13 election models can be viewed on the PS: Political Science & Politics website at http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayJournal?jid=PSC.

But then, Republicans are used to cheating to win elections - it's all you have when you run such disgraceful candidates!

how many elections have been cheated again? Im sure you have some concrete evidence to support such claims. Is this some sort of Foreshadowing Seeking? pre-post election hand wringing?

Brian

The rereg. rereg. rereg.rereg lololololol You should just get off the Vine. Your ignorance has been shown for far to long and by to Many Rereg Names lolololol

Moms Basement Dweller and the KING of REREG hands Down

The Choice is very clear come November

A Vote for Robme/Lyin Ryan is a Vote for War, Death and destruction of our Children

A Vote for Obama/Biden is a Vote for Sanity and Safety of our Children

It is not hard....... VOTE STRAIGHT DEMOCRAT THROW THE GOP/AMERICAN TALIBAN OUT OF OFFICE

We already have seen what Bush and the GOP did to the USA in 2008, and we have Mittens/Bush2.0 steroided out wanting the same old failed policys

The rereg. rereg. rereg.rereg lololololol You should just get off the Vine. Your ignorance has been shown for far to long and by to Many Rereg Names lolololol

the Rally cry of the FR liberals. Its like the red herring here. 'Look! a rereg!'

A Vote for Robme/Lyin Ryan is a Vote for War, Death and destruction of our Children

A Vote for Obama/Biden is a Vote for Sanity and Safety of our Children

just another town crier screaming at the top of their lungs a bunch of anger filled rhetoric.

The real question is why do SO many middle and working class people continue to support candidates and policies, that conflict directly with their own best interests? Especially Ohioans, who've felt a disproportionate amount of economic pain, due to those who support failed(for the middle and working classes) failed Supply Side economic policies. Come on people! Sharpen your critical thinking skills. Go beyond the propaganda machine that is Fox News. Do your own research. Understand that many conservatives aren't offering a well reasoned, fact-based agenda or, are making valid arguments about the economic realities we face, they are simply lying. They hope by repeat repeating the same hollow talking points frequently and with conviction, that you will believe it's true. They appeal to your fears or, biases and count on you failing to question their rhetoric, or the validity of their claims. Mitt is the very embodiment of those who have spent the last 30+ years, outsourcing and downsizing your job, stagnating your wages and subverting the American dream of upward socioeconomic mobility...often with your unwitting help.

Ceaser

Lean over and give Brian a kiss, I know both of you are in the same Koch/Rove Paid Basement. How much does it pay to be a Benedict Arnold to ones Country? all for $10-$12 bucks an Hour

Red_Cloud, you going to paint the lie that John McCain crashed 5 planes? You want to back that up or do you just like libel?

IndependentinSD

Ceaser

Lean over and give Brian a kiss, I know both of you are in the same Koch/Rove Paid Basement. How much does it pay to be a Benedict Arnold to ones Country? all for $10-$12 bucks an Hour

and you sound like that Patriotic America fella screaming over and over Robme,Lyin Ryan gonna kill everyone that isnt rich. Over and over and over again. Are you paid by NBC and George Soros? at what 8 an hour?

How much does it pay to be a Benedict Arnold to ones Country?

I dont know why dont you tell us there agent 86

seekingsanity,lol i do not care,i wins a win. we will take it. Caesar augustus-keep up the good work,like your posts.

Paul Ryans loves Ayn Rand but most people dont know is that Ayn Rand was Adolph Hitlers blueprint for Mein Kampf

Eveyone Pay no attention to Brian and Ceaser they are both paid for lock stock and Barrel by the Rove/Kock bros drug Cartel dont let paid Knuckledragging Reich Wing Neo Con American Taliban sway your vote, Romney will killoff Senior Citizens and send Our Children to fight and DIE, ALL OVER THE MIDDLEEAST

Obama/Biden 2012 for your Childrens Safety

Ayn Rand but most people dont know is that Ayn Rand was Adolph Hitlers blueprint for Mein Kampf

except Mein Kampf began in 1923. Ayn Rand wasnt old enough to influence Adolf Hitler. Keep lying IndependentinSD.

I can Lie Steal Cheat and Divide this great Nation..... I am a Republicon/ American Taliban

I must of missed it, of course you'll provide a link to the where Reverend Wright's church blew someone up!

Much appreciated!

Hey Illogical One!

You locate a source yet to back up your claim or you just gonna run and hide?

Run and hide? No. Go to Lunch? Yes

I said (posted)

Funny, that cult as you describe it, has not blown anyone up for bashing them and their beliefs, yet you are always silent on the religion that does kill its critics. What a brave person you must be.

Let us take this slowly since you obviously missed the point, and think somehow I mentioned Obama or his church (read my comments and see I mentioned neither). You said Romney was a member of a cult, basically calling all Mormons cult members in your opinion. I pointed out that you have no fear of calling Mormons nasty names but have never posted anything negative about the religion who blows up its critics. (ie - Islamic Jihadist) I then noted your bravery for attacking a faith who does not fight back while staying silent about the faith that would put a hit out on you for drawing a picture of Muhammad. My post had nothing to do with Obama's "old" church that he has left and distanced himself from since video footage of radical sermons were released in 2007.

Tell me again how many millions in charity this so called cult has given, compared with the number of people the have killed in the name of their faith, and tell me why you feel free to call them names yet sit in silent fear when faced with a faith group who commits terrorism?

Mitt Robme gets even in some polls and the Stock Market goes down 100pts

Mitt Robme gets into the WhiteHouse the stock market will go 5000pts

Obama/Biden Americans for Sanity

Dingle, why didn't I have you on 'ignore' before today? Oh well, 'click' problem solved.

SAVE BIG BIRD AND SAVE AMERICA!

Obama/Biden 2012

"Of the 13 battleground states identified in the model, the only one to change in the update was New Mexico -- now seen as a narrow victory for Romney. The model foresees Romney carrying New Mexico, North Carolina, Virginia, Iowa, New Hampshire, Colorado, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Florida. Obama is predicted to win Michigan and Nevada."

So what they're saying is that the LOCAL POLLING done in NM, VA, IA, WI, MN, PA, OH and FL are ALL wrong and that they are right even though they did 100% of their work in CO? Its pretty easy to see a lie when it is presented. If you just look at any of the maps of America where you can highlight red and blue, based on the polls, Obama will win because he will win Ohio, VA, NV, Penn and MI. Smh.

Paul Ryans loves Ayn Rand but most people dont know is that Ayn Rand Blueprint was Adolph Hitlers Mein Kampf and I heard a Rumor that Paul Ryan Loved Marge Schott the late owner of the Cincinnatti Reds who herself was a devoted follower of the Nazi Party

Eveyone Pay no attention to Brian and Ceaser they are both paid for lock stock and Barrel by the Rove/Kock bros drug Cartel dont let paid Knuckledragging Reich Wing Neo Con American Taliban sway your vote, Romney will killoff Senior Citizens and send Our Children to fight and DIE, ALL OVER THE MIDDLEEAST

Obama/Biden 2012 for your Childrens Safety

Feisty - I think it's interesting that Romney dropped everything to help find the daughter of one of his Bain PARTNERS. Do you think he would have lifted a finger to find the child of a lower level employee - you know - one of THOSE people My guess is NOT.

bipolar echo - and I'm sure you're hearing LOTS of voices in your head, right? Well that's the way Republcans are used to winning - lying, cheating, stealing - it's the GOP way!

Obama/Biden 2012

but have never posted anything negative about the religion who blows up its critics. (ie - Islamic Jihadist)

Just as I suspected, you couldn't resist taking a shot at Muslims!

In case you have forgotten, the conversation was between the Mormon Church & Reverend Wright, until you came along and derailed it!

You got some nerve calling me a religious bigot...

Thanks for playing, if nothing else, you are predictable! lol

@ Joe in Albany post 1.1

What have Republican's in Congress done to make things better? I really wish some of you would learn how the government works (who does what)!

Here is a news flash for Obama, the Democratic party and every Democrat of voter on Obamas side.

Unless Obama comes out with specifics on a "new " plan to get America back to work and explain why his forgien policy isn't working and how he is going to fix it, HE IS GOING TO LOSE THIS ELECTION.

We heard all of his campain promises in 2008 and all we have heard form him this election are those same promises that have proven not effective. All he and the democratic party have done is throw mud at Romney. Although not complete at least Romeny has clearified his policy and his plan. Democrats then claim he has changed his opinion. Romney did not change his poinion he simply gave more insight into his total vision.

Avenger

Nice Spin we all know Robme is a Lying Empty Suit who wants to send our Children to the middle east for the next 20 years to fight and die for OIL Businesses and Defense Contractors, 2 of Romneys Biggest Supporters.

Obama/ Biden 2012 lets keep our children at home and not fighting and dieing for Romney

You got some nerve calling me a religious bigot...

Logic Reguired. She's right, her bigotry is equal opportunity.

Dingle, why didn't I have you on 'ignore' before today? Oh well, 'click' problem solved.

too bad you can't just call up the FBI,NSA, CIA, et al and have them permanently removed. You know Stalin loved that blind fervent following too. way to go Skip. What i never understand with you Libs as if it is some sort of zing, that you have to announce you put someone on ignore (last word type thing i guess) instead of just doing it and being done with it.

Just as I suspected, you couldn't resist taking a shot at Muslims!

Your pretty foolish, as again I never mentioned Muslims. I said "Islamic Jihadist". I make a distinction between peace loving Muslims and radical terrorist, you obviously don't because you are a religious bigot who has no reading comprehension.

In case you have forgotten, the conversation was between the Mormon Church & Reverend Wright, until you came along and derailed it!

I was not commenting on that conversation, (reading comprehension) I was commenting on your religious attack and name calling towards all Mormons, and then compared it to your silence of religious radicals who oppress women (Muslim Women who I seem to care more about then you), kill gays (Muslims gays who again I seem to care about more then you.) Of course not all Muslims are hateful and radical but I have no problem speaking out against the ones who are, you obviously would rather attack Mormons.

You got some nerve calling me a religious bigot...

You have proven again that you are a religious bigot by not only name calling people you don't even know for their beliefs but for thinking I was talking about all Muslims when I specifically said Islamic Jihadist, and radicals, as to only identify a portion of Islam and not the whole faith. You were the one who after I said terrorist assumed it was all Muslims I was talking about because you do not see the distinction.

Thanks for playing, if nothing else, you are predictable! lol

It's Ok Feisty, your debating skills are similar to Obama's, you can't win unless you make false assumptions or tear down strawmen you setup on lies. Maybe you can again try to post something against me using things I never mentioned, and see if you can tear down another strawman. LOL

Now go away and get Axelrod to come and try to protect your ignorance.

And once again Fisty shows the class of the left. Calling a 14 year old a crack whore. Real nice. So that would make Sandra Fluke a slut, right? Do you ever add anything of substance, Fisty Man? Keep spreading the love of the left, deadbeat.

with the Amount of Voter Suppression Committed by the GOP/Tea Party, Chairman Mao and Joseph Stalin Salute You. What The GOP has done to this country to make it more Communist , Those 2 Communists could have ever hoped for. Communism and Plutocracy is the Rallying cry of the GOP/American Taliban

Sarah said:

Again, it doesn't matter. We're a Republic, the majority doesn't get to vote on the rights of the minority. The majority of southerners didn't want to desegregate, either. Rights are looked at through the lens of the law, not the lens of majority rule. If they were, ALL of our rights would be subject to the whim of the majority.

This has nothing to do with majority rules Sarah. If homosexuals want to have rights, I said, and I'll say it again... let them go through the proper channels to achieve it.

What you miss is that the majority of people do make choices... Congressmen are subject to the majority of voters... Same with the Senators... and mayors, governors, and even in some cases, Dogcatcher. A lot of legislation is voted on and either passes, or doesn't... Majority does rule in many cases... How many referendums are placed on the ballot each voting season? What you said doesn't make sense because if the people were to vote on gay marriage, it would more than likely never pass... why? Because people have a right to maintain their beliefs and traditions.

Most people on here are democrats, should we vote on whether republicans are legally allowed to express their opinion on Newsvine?

I dunno.. I've been ordered to leave here by several left wing people. I've also been told to STFU... I guess some democrats don't appreciate freedom of speech.

Save Big Bird and save America!

Obama/Biden 2012

Romneys 1 and only plan.........wait for it..........Kill Big Bird and give 5,213,123,001.00 dollar tax break to the wealthy while taking away Social Security and Medicare away from the Middle class

I love seeing all of you leftys talking about Big Bird just like your master Barry has been doing for the last week. Keep it up clowns......you are making yourselves look foolish. I mean lets not focus on Barrys record or what he is trying to do, does anyone know what that is?, and lets keep focused like a laser on PBS.

Geez it took me so long to get to the bottom of the first post I forgot what I was going to post about :P.

Anyone try painting/photoshopping a Hitler mustache on Mitt? The results may make you lol :P.

The way most "leaders" imitate Hitler's hand movements is funny too. What is even funnier are the masses that do not even realize it.

There is no voter suppression by the right. Wow, asking people to show an ID to vote is now tantamount to involuntary servitude with you leftists. Here's an odd observation for you then...Since we've been trying to make voting easier for the past several decades (absentee ballots, same day registration, mail in ballots, etc) we have had exactly no increase in voter participation. Perhaps, to get more people to vote, we should make voting less easy, or, to put it another way, make voting worth more to the voter.

Of course a better path would simply be to follow the constitution and to constrain the government that way, regardless of how we vote. But you leftists (entirely it appears) along with some rightists are too eager in every case to ignore the constitution in order to get more free stuff paid for by someone else. The mess we are in has nothing to do with Mr. Obama or Mr. Romney, and neither, frankly, can save us. We are getting the government we have wanted for decades but we just can't figure out why it isn't working out to be the utopia we imagined.

I personally believe Obama is a wolf in sheep's clothing. An unbiased analysis suggests Obama is a closet Marxist whose dangerous anti-American and anti-colonialism agenda has metastasized into a pathological cancer on our society!

No American who loves this country should ever consider voting for a man who steadfastly refuses to place his hand over his heart during the playing of America's National Anthem!!! Any man who views this country with such disdain is NOT qualified to serve in the hallowed role of President!!!

The more myopic minded single issue constituency's that blindly support Obama without carefully examining his background and true agenda are in fact FOOLS OF THE GREATEST MAGNITUDE!

Romney/Ryan 2012

@ New Day... Convenient you forget about all those small businesses who WERE parts suppliers to the Auto Industry that lost their auto work to China. (So more money could be funneled to the Unions.) There are lots of them in Ohio too, and we've not forgotten..... The factors are more than you think. How about the electric and coal industry in Ohio? They're not in favor of YOUR President either. (Let alone the residents of Ohio who are looking at significant increases in the cost of electric due to Obama policy. The only good thing is Cleveland is set to get the biggest increase, serves them right for supporting such an unqualified candidate as Obama.....)

Come by sometime and I will give you a tour of those empty auto plants in Dayton.

Hey if you are 55 and younger get ready for a Health Voucher, You can choose between a Heart attack and a Stroke but you cant get both unless you pay that additional 8 thousand a year to your insurance company, and then you got to hope that they don't throw you off the insurance, because we know the insurance company has a heart and are not in it for the Bottom dollar

The GOP/Tea Party Chant is Lets Vote for Romney and lets get rid of all of the parasitic Seniors

Obama/Biden your Grandparents life depend on it

The MSM has had its nose up Mr. Obama's rear all along. Because of this Mr. Obama was insulated from reality, and because of this he was shocked in that debate to the point that he appeared weak, feckless, and unprepared, and Mr. Romney appeared his polar opposite. The MSM did Mr. Obama a disservice, but they also did a disservice to the American people as well. We got a president who is largely incapable of leadership and who has been unable to accomplish the vast majority of his goals. Voters aren't happy with Mr. Obama.

So when the left, and Mr. Obama's campaign, take up the crazy strategy of saying that Mr. Romney is, in every case, a liar, or evil, or whatever, and then Mr. Romney comes on the TV for that debate, finally unfiltered to the vast majority of those who watched the debate, and viewers see someone who is nothing like the claims made by the left, then it is easy to see why Mr. Romney's favorables have shot up, and polls are showing him making up ground at a rapid pace.

The good news for Republicans is that Democrats, Mr. Obama included, show no signs of making a substantive argument for why Mr. Obama should be re-elected, and instead continue to make the same, crazy, claims as before: Mr. Romney is a dirty evil liar! Well, their narrative is false. Voters are seeing it is false. So between having no case for Mr. Obama and making a false case against Mr. Romney, it is likely that Mr. Romney will win this in a rout.

I have a big bird for Romney right here^^.

Hi IndependentinSD,

How ironic that you assert Mr. Romney lies all the time, but you are the one here not being honest about his Medicare ideas. Personally I think we should find a way to end Medicare. Along with Medicaid it is one of a few major drivers of price increases in health care and we simply can't continue on this path. Still, Mr. Romney clearly stated at the debate, as well as before the debate and after too, that changes would take place only for those people younger then 55.

And what was the change? Well, if you wanted to you could remain on Medicare as it is presently constructed, but if you wanted to take a voucher and get your own coverage in the private market you could go that way as well. This puts your claim that what awaits seniors is just a voucher into the "false" category.

But, worse in all respects, is your inability or unwillingness to see the problems with Medicare and come up with any plan to fix those problems that doesn't involve more government, and in the process, more government rationing.

No reply from my last post Fiesty? What's the matter, afraid you will again be corrected and shown to be the no substance, name calling hack you truely are?

I have a big bird for Romney right here^^.

That's funny, girls seem to always call you little pecker, not big bird. Not even your nasty comments are based on facts.

This just in, Big Bird is apart of the 1% and has made millions of dollars. Obama hates big business, big oil, but loves big bird! LOL -

I'm sure all those unemployed Americans are worried about whether or not Big bird gets to keep his job on tax payer money while they are left out to dry.

What you miss is that the majority of people do make choices... Congressmen are subject to the majority of voters... Same with the Senators... and mayors, governors, and even in some cases, Dogcatcher. A lot of legislation is voted on and either passes, or doesn't... Majority does rule in many cases... How many referendums are placed on the ballot each voting season? What you said doesn't make sense because if the people were to vote on gay marriage, it would more than likely never pass... why? Because people have a right to maintain their beliefs and traditions.

Electing officials isn't the same as electing who receives civil rights and equal protection. Any initiative on a ballot, that goes there, more often then not, gets challenged in court. I.E. the Mosque in Murphessboro.

Furthermore, they ARE going through the proper channels by challenging Prop 8, in court. THAT is where civil rights issues belong.

Continuing, your assertion that people have a right to their traditions and beliefs is correct. However, gay marriage doesn't substantively effect those traditions and beliefs.

Also, being told to STFU or leave, is NOT limiting your free speech. When we Dems, vote in an initiative to make it ILLEGAL for you to post. You'll be on point, and most likely more willing to admit we DON'T vote on civil rights.

Beyond the obvious moral decay accelerated at an exponential rate by this president, the economic damage he has done lays in wait like an iceberg on a dark ocean night. Ninety percent of risk is lurking below the surface and remains invisible to those consumed by this "fast food style decision making process" and short sound bites of single issue constituency rhetoric!

Obama induced debt (deficit spending) acts like a cancer on our nation and American society. Cancer grows and cannot be contained without serious and often invasive treatment. The cure itself poses serious side effects. We can look to Greece as a sort of microcosm of what Obama is doing to America with what may go down in history as the "most reckless fiscal policy in the history of the industrialized world".

China and others have warned America and the world about the inherent risk in Obama policies, but it appears it will take yet another credit downgrade and perhaps a complete economic collapse for some Americans to wake up to the "harsh and frightening reality" of America's future should Obama be reelected! STOP OBAMA NOW!

Romney/Ryan 2012

What's the matter, afraid you will again be corrected and shown to be the no substance, name calling hack you truely are?

Nah!

I have grown bored repeatedly spanking your ass that's all...

Time to move onto bigger and better than you darling!

I'll get back to you when you become worthy of my time. ;o)

feisty has now added religious bigot to her long list of undesirable traits.

Obama is just going to lie repeatedly to try to win re-election. Just about every commercial he makes is a lie because he has NOTHNG to run on. Sad.

Read this article from Thomas Sowell before you even consider to vote this November. Forward it to all that you know:
___—
If Obama wins, "then the fate of America -- and of Western nations, including Israel -- will be left in the hands of a man with a lifelong hostility to Western values and Western interests.
President Obama is such a genial man that many people, across the ideological space, cannot see him as a danger.
For every hundred people who can see his geniality, probably only a handful see the grave danger his warped policies and ruthless tactics pose to a whole way of life that has given generation after generation of Americans unprecedented freedom and prosperity.
The election next November will not be just another election, and the stakes add up to far more than the sum of the individual issues. Moreover, if reelected and facing no future election, whatever political constraints may have limited how far Obama would push his radical agenda will be gone.
He would have the closest thing to a blank check. Nothing could stop him but impeachment or a military coup, and both are very unlikely. A genial corrupter is all the more dangerous for being genial.

Santanyana was/is right. Not so good for Mr. Obama. The last time an incumbent president was unable to make a positive case for himself and instead did nothing but demonize his opponent was when Mr. Reagan beat the snot out of Mr. Carter. Even though Mr. Romney isn't the kind of conservative I prefer entirely, he is easily better than Mr. Obama. I don't know who will win, but if it's Mr. Obama I would think it'll be a squeaker, but if it's Mr. Romney it should be a serious spanking.

Come on, Ohio! Do the right thing this November. Don't let Obama fool you again!

Obama and the Democrats are saying "forward" to four more years of this? No thanks.

I just can't see why someone would re-elect a President with this type of deplorable track record:

• Over 8% unemployment for a record 43 months in a row? It recently dropped to 7.8%, which is still horrible and probably due to holiday hiring.

• Over $16 trillion in debt and counting? He increased it five trillion rather than reduce it five trillion as promised.

• Over 14% unemployment for blacks?

• Anemic economic growth?

• No budget for the past three years as required by the Constitution?

• A healthcare plan that will cost over three times what they said it would, was opposed by over 60% of the population, sucks $700,000,000 out of Medicare to help pay for it, and wasn't even read by any member of Congress that voted for it? How could you vote for a bill you haven't even read?

• Solyndra FAIL and cover-up (or at least no due diligence) that cost taxpayers over half a billion dollars?

• FAILURE to protect our embassy in Libya resulting in the deaths of four Americans, and the cover-up afterward.

• Fast and Furious FAILURE, resulting in the death of a boarder control officer and the cover-up by the Obama administration. Holder held in contempt of Congress.

This presidency is a failure and it is time for Americans to realize it and vote for a man that is highly qualified to lead us out of this mess, Mitt Romney.

Paul Ryans loves Ayn Rand but most people dont know is that Ayn Rand Blueprint was Adolph Hitlers Mein Kampf and I heard a Rumor that Paul Ryan Loved Marge Schott the late owner of the Cincinnatti Reds who herself was a devoted follower of the Nazi Party

The Choice is very clear come November

A Vote for Robme/Lyin Ryan is a Vote for War, Death and destruction of our Children

A Vote for Obama/Biden is a Vote for Sanity and Safety of our Children

It is not hard....... VOTE STRAIGHT DEMOCRAT THROW THE GOP/AMERICAN TALIBAN OUT OF OFFICE

We already have seen what Bush and the GOP did to the USA in 2008, and we have Mittens/Bush2.0 steroided out wanting the same old failed policys

Robme/Ryans Big Plan....... The Middle Class get Medical Vouchers so Robme/Ryan and the top 2% can get a 5.1 Trillion Dollar Tax Break. and yet some of you GOP faithful are OK with that? Amazing the ignorance of some on the right, and Robme/Ryan are going to explode our Debt to the Tune of 2.3 TRILLION Dollars more a Year. So the Wealthy can get a Bigger Tax break. Seriously Folks the wealthy are taking your lunch and Clothes and you are to Brainwashed by Phuks News to see the light

Obama/Biden 2012 let the Upper class fend for themselves and stay away from my middle class Money

Pat Boston MA.:

You wrote: “THE most important thing I heard on MSNBC last night was that Romney "was given permission" to go more moderate.” Pat, clearly someone gave you permission to be more gullible a long time ago.

I have to wonder: Who dictates to you? It does not look as if you put a lot of thought into some of the things you write. It looks as if you get general instructions from the party bosses, and then you toss a few words together. Good luck with that approach to intellectual discourse.

Robyomoney has never held a job in his life - he was born into wealth. I pay more than 30% of my income in taxes while Robyomoney pays only 14%, but I'm one of the 47% moochers because I served 20 years in the military and expect something from it while I pay for his health care because we all know a multi-millionaire can't afford to pay for his own health care. He wants us to give him our money so someday it may trickle back down to us because we feel entitled to our money while he's never done anything to earn his money except ship jobs overseas to make more money for himself while keeping most of his money in off-shore accounts so he doesn't have to pay taxes on it. He wants to take from us so he can profit from out stupidity! A vote for Robyomoney is a vote to make him and others like him more wealthy while he takes from you! Robyomoney from the poor and give to the rich!!!

@Feisty...I am not a Mormon but I have been to their church many times. They do allow non-members in the church. Of course they do. How do you expose people to your beliefs to get converters if you don't? That is silly.

@Logic Required....LOL. You got her. She knows she is busted. Silence speaks volumes. The old standby "I've grown tired of spanking your a$$" Feisty you got yours spanked.

@TheKhanKubla, Don't forget former presidential candidate John Kerry only pays 13.1%.

Feisty might just like getting spanked. ;-)

Look at where in Ohio the polls are taken...Cincinnati, a liberal Democrat stronghold. If the base of the polls were in Columbus, Cleveland, and Toledo, it would show Romney is running way ahead, and that doesn't account for the majority of the state, which is conservative agricultural in nature. I only know of 2 people in Ohio who support Obama, but many who don't, he didn't live up to his promise to bring good jobs to the state, and unemployment benefits have run out.