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LOS ANGELES, Calif. -- With a touch of humor and at one point admonition, President Obama urged supporters at a Los Angeles fundraiser here not to lose enthusiasm for his campaign just because he had one lousy debate performance.
The president kicked off his remarks with an allusion to last Wednesday night that the whole crowd seemed to pick up on. Praising his opening acts at the Nokia Theater here, which included Stevie Wonder, Jon Bon Jovi and Katy Perry, Obama said, “These guys perform flawlessly night after night.”
“I can’t always say the same,” he continued, waiting a beat for comic timing.
And later he reminded his audience that he had some imperfect moments during the last campaign as well.
“Everybody always remembers the victory but they don’t always remember the bumps in the road; things always look good in retrospect.
“But in the middle of it, we were – we made all kinds of mistakes. We goofed up, I goofed up, but the American people carried us forward,” urging his supporters not to forget that they stuck by him even when he hiccupped in 2008 – something he hopes they do over the next 30 days.
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No problem Obama. Romney is horrible. You got it locked
Obama 2012
Romney 1040
Actually, the outpouring of support for President Obama seems to have increased since the debate. Romney came across as a desperate bully, and who can blame the President for being taken off guard by the GOP Chameleon? More than half the nation was left scratching their heads wondering how any true American with integrity could stand in front of the nation and say things like "I will not cut education" when he has stated all along he was cutting Pell Grants for college students. And saying 47% of Americans are freeloaders one day, and then saying the next day, he was "completely wrong." Kind of like the thief that is sorry he was caught but not sorry that he stole.
A vote for Romney is the same thing as a vote for four more years of Bush and Cheney.
No President could have repaired all the damage done by 30 years of top-down economics.
But President Obama, took responsibility and steered us through the most perilous economic challenges since the Great Depression.
In creating 5.2 million jobs over 30 months, he has done what McConnell and the obstruction GOP didn't think he could do.
In standing by the Auto and related industries, President Obama created and saved millions of jobs. Manufacturing is back for the first time since the 1990's with over half a million jobs. This President wants to give tax credits to companies creating jobs here in the US, discourage outsourcing, and bring jobs home, invest in green and renewables, cut foreign oil imports in half.
He is a cautious, respectful and deeply thoughtful President.
President Obama cares 100% about everyone regardless who they are, what they look or where they are from.
silverton you are correct my friend. Romney just is not genuine. His actions tell us he will say whatever and whenever even when it defies everything he said before. It is just strange.
These are the dumbest reasons I've ever seen for voting for someone, or not voting for someone.
Backhouse thank you for the great information. You are now in danger of having your very accurate information questioned because the truth is hard for those with an agenda to swallow.
You mean like last Wednesday's debate? LOL
Yeahhhhhhh Micheal Romney is a masterbater...talk is cheap. Lots of jobs is good. Job creator Obama is good
A bully is not a leader.
And a debate is not an election.
He isn't genuine.....Romney's work at Bain Capitol reminds me of the movie "Pretty Woman" where Richard Gere plays a character that buys a business, fires the workers, and sells it off for huge profits. I just pray, like in the film, he meets a prostitute that can teach him how to be a better human being.
Obama/Biden 2012
dal,
The President endured 15 GOP leaders conspiring to block job creation and the economic recovery of America. They pledged to do so on Inauguration Day January 2009 at the Caucus Restaurant in WA. (On record.)
Paul Ryan was at that meeting.
And GOP congressionals followed through on that pledge by filibustering at 3 times the pace ever seen in American history, and blocking every job creation measure - as they did the Veterans bill just two weeks ago.
Any little hurdle we may experience here, is peanuts at the side of that.
Bill Maher on Obama at debate:
"He sucked," Maher said during his monologue on HBO's "Real Time With Bill Maher. "He looked tired, he had trouble getting his answers out. It looks like he took my million and spent it all on weed."
Neither is a fundraiser speech....LOL....Just what in the heck did you think the article was about?
Don't worry Obama, your zombies will follow you right off the fiscal cliff.
Backhouse,
You are right on the money. Watched a veterans jobs bill get blocked by Republicans. Wow! But they will vote in a trillion in tax entitlements to themselves. Selfish? You bet
dal,
The $5Trillion dollar tax cut that Romney has been touting for the last 18 months, is the one he DENIED at the presidential debate.
He LIED about the $5Trillion tax cut that will go to the 0.01%-ers --- who are putting up $billions for him because they want that tax cut.
Via that tax cut, folks on $3 million will get a $250,000 tax cut. Independent analysts have said it will cost the average family with children a TAX HIKE of $2,200.
But Romney told a big, ugly lie - even at such an important moment. He told a lot of very obvious lies as well.
Mitt Romney is USELESS for the 47% - or the 99%. And completely dishonest.
Hey Dal, if Mitt gives his 1040, will you give up the pictures of your Mom going A to M with the Messiah?
Why not, they can always blame the whole thing on Bush, just like their leader already does!
It will take more than one debate to turn the American people away from President Obama. The path is clear: President Obama in November! He is clearly our only rational choice!
Weird the only people who cry more about Bush than Democrats is Republicans. Maybe more Democrats should blame Bush to make them happy.
Romney's tax returns will never be shown. I will not buy a house on a summary and never give a vote to a tax summary. Romney just is not honest
Under President Bush: Two unpaid for wars, a sweet pharma deal, tax cuts skewed to the wealthy for the first time ever in a time of war ----
All on the U.S. credit card: Exacerbated the failed top-down economics policies since Reagan.
The result of which has caused incomes to the top few to increase 275 times since the 1980's, while for the rest of us wages flat-lined, at the same time as prices and costs went up.
The top 400 income earners control 40% of U.S. income. But they want MORE. And they will cut Medicare, Medicaid and privatize Social Security and Education to get MORE.
RomneyRyan represent Adelson and the 0.01%, at any cost to the rest of us.
Why can't we bring up George Bush's Administration? Bush and Cheney ruled for eight years. They just left the White House less than four years ago and when they did, they left an economic catastrophe that almost led to global financial collapse.
Why can't we mention Bush? His Administration put us in the dire straits we now have, and the GOP congress has selfishly done NOTHING to help get us out of their own party's colossal damages.
I, for one, plan to mention Bush from this day forward until the election. The Republicans may wish us to forget what the Bush Adminstration did, but only someone with short-term memory loss could forget what happened the last time the GOP was in office.
A vote for Romney is the same thing as a vote for four more years of Bush and Cheney.
I love Obama for many reasons, but one is because when I got sick and my income hit rock bottom and I couldn't pay my student loan he had created a program that allowed me to stop payments for a couple years with no penalty. He rocks and he only needs the Republicans to stop obstructing him to make headway. Thank you Mr. President. You saved my life. The program is through American Education Services in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. It was one of the first things he did after taking office. We believe in your sir! We are counting on you. I know Romney would probably cut that program in a heartbeat. You wouldn't. Enough said.
If you can not blame Bush then who anyway? Obama? That is convenient. The economy sucked way before Obama took over and it was getting worse. Hell Bush nearly did not get voted in because it was terrible. But not to worry jobs are at the highest one month employment in 30 years. Things are looking great. Thank you Obama. Romney...well you can go back to Bain....ohhh wait Bain went under
Beakeeper, student loan deferrals from AES have been available long before Obama. I used it myself in the 90's. But go ahead and keep worshipping your master as he leads America to economic collapse.
If Mitt was such a good governor, then why is Obama favored 70-30 in Massachusetts? In 2002, he ran the same compaign for governor, started on the right, became moderate during the election and then reverted back to conservatism once he got in. His only main accomplishment was Romneycare, and that's because the Democrats wanted it and Ted Kennedy secured $385 million a year from the federal government to finance it.
He raised fees by $1 billion dollars, which disproportianately favores the wealthy. And his state was already number 1 in education when he took office. He wanted to make cuts to education which the dems wouldn't allow. In fact, most of what he wanted was defeated by the dems. His state lost jobs under his tenure and went from 25th to 47th in the nation for jobs creation. And most of the 19 tax cuts he talks about were one-day sales tax holidays.
Remember, here's a Republican who got elected in a heavily Democratic state. And then he flip flopped on his election promises in order to pander to the right to start his presidential bid. He was not able to reach accross the aisle at all, and not much was really accomplished.
It's quite evident that Mitt will say and do whatever is necessary to get elected, and then do whatever suits him best afterward. He is absolutely hated in Massachusetts.
This President prevented the U.S. from falling down a giant fiscal hole.
With zero help from GOP.
President Bush left us at 7.8% unemployment, losing 800,000 jobs per month.
And following a second Great Depression, in which the low point was 10% unemployment in October 2009:
We are AGAIN at 7.8% - after creating 5.2 million jobs.
Adjusted & confirmed recently by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Wrong backhouse. Obama took a bad situation and made it $6,000,000,000,000.00 worse.
Blindfolds are two a penny.
Suggest you take yours off, while crossing the road.
America lost hope in Obama years ago when he statred his apology tour and shoved his crappy health care bill down our throats.
The only enthuasiam is to get him gone
Gosh GermanGem .. how many 0s does the GOPTP have. Apparently, trillions. It was Cheney who said debt and deficits don't matter. Own it GG. You support the party of indefinite debt and indefinite deficits. Americans, thank GermanGerm, owner of the debt, deficit, and owner of the decline of America.
The Congressional Budget Office has released its estimate for the fiscal year 2012, just ended on September 30 and the news is good. The federal deficit was just under $1.1 trillion, compared to just under $1.3 trillion at the end of fiscal year 2011, a reduction of $207 billion. As a percentage of the GDP, the 2012 deficit dropped to 7.0 per cent, down from 8.7 percent in 2011 and 9.0 percent in 2010. The actual deficit numbers will be released later this month by the Treasury Department
The September 2012 numbers show an increase in receipts of about $23 billion, or 9% higher than the same period a year ago and a decrease of $115 billion in spending.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021491357
______________
We haven't lost our enthusiam.
After all the lies and flip flops by Romney in this campaign, having the likes of neocons as his advisers, I myself would find it nearly impossible to share a stage and back and forth with someone like Romney. He is a really really nasty unethical candidate. Lies come naturally to him.
In the meantime, President Obama continues to press on with cleaning up one major mess. Oh, I forgot. The Bush Admin. never happened. Once again, we're all supposed to turn a blind eye to the damage they caused and pretend all the bad stuff happened under Obama.
The next debate will have the president at a Town Hall. He will do terrific. He's very very good in these settings. People like him and I think the REAL Obama will shine.
Tomorrow Romney talks foreign policy? What the hell does he know about foreign policy? He has neocons a/k/a war mongers advising him.
Romney, Vietnam draft good for my brother and classmates. Not so good for him.
I don't know how the president can stand being in the same room with these people. I have a difficult time just reading some of the crap from these people here on First Read, but at least I don't have to spend any time with them.
Night and day these two candidates.
Night and day.
At least 47% more are now so enthusiastically supporting the President. They have got excited - Thanks to Mitt and his comment.
I hear you loud and clear. Hope others do likewise.
Since the GOP has discarded women, seniors, minorities, union workers, moderates, gays and lesbians, and students, they have given up all hope of winning the election in order to appeal to the right wing lunatic fringe. I hope they enjoy it.
President Obama in November! He is clearly our only rational choice!
Anyone who is educated knows that the jobs numbers were not good news. They know that U6 is still stuck at 14.7%. They know that nearly 50% of the jobs added in 2012 are part-time jobs. They know that family income is down more than 6%. They know that foodstamp recipients are up 50%, adding more than 12 million. No thinking person thinks that things are getting better. 114k jobs in a month does not keep up with population growth.
So all of that said, any liberal patting themselves on the back about this knows that they are celebrating nonsense.
If you honestly want to elect the clown in charge of the jobless recovery, go ahead.
But after nearly $1 billion in fundraising, the sitting President is still statistically tied, and potentially behind the very mediocre Romney.
As for Romney, he has actual success in his life in multiple areas, has been a successful CEO, and knows how to grow business. Obama clearly does not know how to grow jobs, other than government jobs. Unemployment among government workers is now under 5%.
So if you want a bigger government, more debt, and a war in business, vote for Obama. Otherwise, Romney is our only hope this go round as Gary Johnson simply does not have enough traction.
Just curious, but is it a requirement to lie and take things out of context to be a democrat? How can we fix this nation when one side refuses to even address the truth?
How can we come to a fruitful dialogue when the entire notion of truth is in dispute? If employment numbers, polls, etc. are going to be challenged and disregarded because the numbers don't fit the preconceptions...and misconceptions...of a certain political point of view, how can we take their assertions seriously when the opposing side's opinions are based upon something other than facts, evidence, data, or reality?
Mister wonderful What you just said about Romney is just bull. The republicans are not taking responsibility for their part in causing our problems. Romney is a habitual liar. His creditbility is zero. The Republicans don't deserve to be in power after where they have taken this country. The democrats as well don't deserve to be in power also. You see we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. I believe that the Republicans are worse than the democrats.
PutAmericaFirst
To answer your question. It is only a requirement for a Democrat to lie and take things out of context when they behave like Republican, or wanna be's. The difference is that it is however necessary for Republicans to do such things with no condition or restriction in order to support their version of reality.
As to your second question, the answer is of course, we can't. Unless the Republican obstructionists come their senses, stop the nonsense, and face the truth none of us, neither Democrat or Republican, will be able to fix what's wrong with this nation.
ted-- It is true that Democrats aren't perfect, I identify myself as a Democrat, and I don't always agree with everything they do either, I am not a BLIND FOLLOWER, but , our President has had his back up against a wall, ever since the day he took the oath of office, you see the right wing on this vine, constantly accusing him of doing nothing for four years, when he supposedly"had control" of the House and the Senate, for his first two years in office. That is NOT true, the Democrats had a MAJORITY in both houses, true, but what they did NOT HAVE, was a "supermajority" which in the Senate is 60 votes, or more, and in the House is at LEAST a majority of "TWO THIRDS" or more, and they had NEITHER, so as a result, we had a RECORD number of filibusters during that time, and then in 2010, the Republicans, running on a platform of "JOBS! JOBS! JOBS!" gained control of the House, and since then have done EVERTHING THEY COULD, to make our President look bad. By the way on the evening of the innaguration, the G.O.P. leaders had a secret meeting and decided to do EVERYTHING THEY COULD, to block and obstruct the President, in order to make him "A ONE TERM PRESIDENT", a direct quote from Sen. Mitch McConnell.
President Obama need not worry. We supporters will be with him all the way! We have no idea if perhaps the heavy burdens of his office left him tired or ill-prepared for the debate, whereas Romney (who hasn't worked a day since 2007) spent weeks preparing for his pit bull act.
Real Americans understand that our system of government is set up with checks and balances so that no one person can wield too much power. The presidency is not a dictatorship. In order for our system to function effectively, voting citizens must take part in the process. President Obama has always made it clear that he alone cannot make the necessary changes. He needs the support of the entire country, and we stand ready to support him.
Change has been slow, yes. But it was OUR fault, we apathetic voters, for allowing all those Tea Bagger candidates to win congressional offices. We did not fight hard enough against a movement that was orchestrated and paid for by the selfish interests of the Koch brothers. We let a narrow-minded, uncompromising bunch of loons take over congress and block progress for our country, a group whose only goal was to take back power.
Now we are paying the price for our inaction. We need to wake up and shoulder our responsibilities as citizens in our communities, towns, counties and states. We cannot take the 'let someone else do it' attitude. That way leads us to further control by the wealthy and the corporate interests.
This is America! We are supposed to be setting an example of democracy for the world to follow, but instead we violate our own principles of civility and free, fair elections. We allow liars and conspiracy theorists to rule the airwaves. We let partisan hacks deliver the 'news'. Is it any wonder we have lost respect overseas?
We who support President Obama know that he is an intelligent, thoughtful man who learns not only from his own experiences but also from the experiences of others. We know he can and will do better in the next two debates. We know he is a good soul. He has our backs and we have his.
OBAMA/ BIDEN 2012
Backhouse - So, 5.2 million jobs have been gained, how many jobs lost? Why are there 5 million less people working under Obama? How many people gave up looking for work in the Obama ecomony? 63 million when Obama started, or the Bush jobs, to 58 million now employed under Obama! Funny how the press and you can not LIE enough about this stat, maybe it is the only thing you have! Front page of the Chicago tribune Sunday, African American's under Obama have lost ALL OF THIER GAINS in the past 30 years under Obama's pathetic leadership. Finally the FACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We will vote for you Obama, it doesn't matter that you lied to us, taken our country to the brink of collapse and solidified our failures to the world. We REFUSE to read the entire article and WILL ONLY believe what we're told to believe. Why just the other day I caught a guy doing real research on an ISSUE, but don't worry, I told him that YOU would tell us how to believe. Oh, and I scoffed at his notion there was any chance we were wrong and backed that up with ridicule. Debates are for sissies anyway. We ALL know that it's the written speeches that make the biggest difference! We'll not be fooled by all of those that say the "real you" comes out without the aid of a teleprompter! I mean come on, what would Hollywood be without the aid of a script, right? These "you-know-whats" on the right are just all horrible, greedy rich folks! We KNOW FOR A FACT there's not one minority or middle class person that EVEN VOTES REPUBLICAN! And whatever Snoop Dog wants, Snoop Dog gets!
Mercy......they ought to rename this board the "Obama Apology & Excuse Board." Yes....GW was a spender...i.e. liberal-esque. BO took over and took many of those same policies and put the metal to the metal. Many on here claim he has had his back to the wall from Day 1. That could be.......but if that is the case......then his work-ethic is pathetic for the situation at hand.
His attendance at security briefings is terrible, he is doing a little too many talk shows for what is on his plate, he hasn't even presented a budget that his OWN party will pass for close to four years! Silly me......I guess I thought a budget would be a good idea in such a dire situation!
You do know that Obamacare is the largest tax increase on the lower and middle class in history? You don't you say? Well you are soon going to find out! Social reasons are one thing......but if you are voting on the economy......then a vote for BO will keep the pedal to the metal. Won't it be fun to cuss ol GW when your gas is $6.00?!?! Won't that make you feel good?!?! The only person you can blame at that point is yourself. People in Harlem are no better off than they were 30 years ago.....yet they continue to vote in Charlie Rangel.....they only have themselves to blame.
The ridiculous statements slay me! Democrats seem to be "Okay" with the unemployment rate, the price of gas, the disgusting health care system, the medicare cutbacks, the pared down military, the bowing down to terrorists, the apologies to countries for murdering our people. a president that does not show up for work, hangs with aging rock stars instead..is clueless on foreign affairs, a president that is all for creating a permanent underclass/underemployed - all in the name of the Democratic party. What happened to "WE the PEOPLE". Who cares what party you are...if the boss of your company carried on the way Obama does - he would have been fired and you know it!!
This isn't about blaming Bush or defending Bush. He hasn't been in the White House for the past 4 years...someone else has - sort of.
Everyone seems to be jealous of what Mitt Romney has acheived...isn't that the AMERICAN DREAM!! He was smart enough to acheive it. Good for him!!
Since when do we get jealous of what our neighbor has??? I would rather have a successful businessman as my next president than let's see....a lawyer...and you know you ALL make lawyer jokes and how underhanded they are - what makes Obama different??
You want four more years of Hollywood and wimpy politicians in your White House. Research the economy in Kenya - this is where we are headed if the current regime stays in office.
9Ball, I couldn't agree more. Here is my take on it:
Mitt Romney is 25+ points behind President Obama in his home state. Massachusetts trends Democratic, but that doesn’t explain it -- the state elected Republican Scott Brown to the US Senate in 2010. Massachusetts voters KNOW Mitt Romney best -- a one-term governor with an approval rating of 39% -- and they don’t trust him.
I lived through Romney as governor. He says anything to get what he wants, which was obvious during the recent debate. He looks sincerely into the camera and takes any position likely to get votes, then takes exactly the opposite position just as sincerely. This guy will stoop to a bald-faced lie, and turn on a dime to please his audience.
Romney said he was a moderate to get the moderate vote, then traveled the country bad-mouthing our “liberal” state, and now claims he was a “severe conservative.” Until last week, when he switched back to moderate. He used Massachusetts as a steppingstone, spending 212 days out of state campaigning for President during his last year as governor, making jokes at our expense. Massachusetts voters have hard experience with Romney and resent being used by him. The claims he makes about his record are false as 9Ball points out. He didn’t care about our state and he doesn’t care about yours – he just cares about winning.
I know what I am saying – Romney fooled me. Massachusetts will not be fooled this time around.
He is a shape shifter. Don’t let him fool you.
Only a fool of the greatest magnitude could consider voting for a man who steadfastly refuses
to even place his hand over his heart during the playing of America’s National Anthem!!! Any man who views this country with such distain is unqualified to hold the hallowed office of President!!!
The more myopic minded single issue constituency’s that blindly support Obama without carefully examining his background and true agenda are in fact FOOLS OF THE GREATEST MAGNITUDE!
Romney/Ryan 2012
"Creating 5.2 million jobs"...??????
There are roughly the same number of people working at jobs today as there were on the day Mr. Obama took office...and the nation's population has grown.
The President's oft-used word..."math", dictates that about the same number of jobs have obviously been lost for the country to still have the same number of workers.
If the President is to get credit those new jobs supposedly "created" does he also get the credit for about the same number of jobs that have been lost ???
And that's without even delving into the roughly 4-5 million workers who have retired, died, or gone on 'Disability' over the last four years. Many of those jobs had to be "filled" by employers...they were not "created" by this President or anyone else but by the worker retiring, dying, or going on "Disability".
You folks actually swallow the nonsense this politician is insisting you eat ???
Romney took a more moderate position during the debate..A true chamelion...... If that is who he really is then the joke on the right wing extremists who are celebrating his so call debate victory......
"The Apple does Not Fall far from the Tree".
Remember when ROMNEY say during the debate that he alway knew when his 5 KIDS were LYING?
Well, it takes a LIAR to know a LIAR, and it takes a CON to know a CON.
And if you were to ask Mitt Romney's Kids how they Learned to LIE so wll.
I be they would say: "We HAD a GOOD TEACHER"
Mitt ROMNEY does NOT deserve to be President.
He has too many MORAL SHORTCOMINGS and CHARACTER DEFECTS.
Mitt ERomney is DISPICABLE
@silvertron. Did big old Mitt pick on itty bitty Obama? Poor baby getting bullied by a mean old capitalist.
12 left lies about the debate debunked:
Well, this doesn't take into account the fact that the cars made with these new standards will still be on the road. That takes that 2 million number, and puts it down to a few hundred thousand, even at 2 million, it doesn't stop us from being energy independent.
This does not take into account the deduction loss, nu'f said.
same as 2...
Same as 2 and 3... wow, this is really easy...
This is false, for the same reason as 2, 3, and 4.
This comes from the same study:
At the 2.7 percent rate, the cost of servicing one trillion dollars of debt costs $27 billion each year. Column (5) is computed by multiplying each number in column (4) by the interest rate. 11.These results can be interpreted to say that servicing one trillion dollars of debt for one year requires $3 higher taxes on households earning from 10-20 thousand dollars of income, $124 higher taxes for households earning 50-75 thousand dollars, and $863 higher taxes for households earning 200-500 thousand dollars.
all a matter of you see what you want to see.
According to President Obama, trumps business is a small business... if that is the case, then Romney was telling the truth.
It is called embellishment, look it up. Also, those 7000 permits are from Bush, not the President.
I will concede this one... but, it is more than any single term of any preceding President in the last 40 years.
Really? Taking things out of context, and who made you lead mind reader and psychic?
goo (dot) gl/myY1N
don't worry, just an image
I skipped 12 for the sole reason of the fact that it isn't actually a lie, it is basically saying that he is right but there is a catch...
Ok... now for 13... now this one is just stupid... purely political, is it not a cut? Is taking money out of a program not a cut?
Obama was outted as who he really is and you pathetic libs can't take it! Your fearless leader is not fearless or a leader! Wow you guys must be so embarrassed to have followed this fake for the last four years. Uhm Um I need to take money from rich people uhm um it's me and my wife's anniversary and and and and and and I know Jay-z and Beyonce. Vote for me!!!!! Whee!!!!!! Wake up !!This country is going to hell and you guys blindly follow this guy!
It's not just one lousy debate performance Barry! It's the four years of mis-steps, arrogance and lies that make us worry that you might be re-elected by the sheep that refuse to take off the blinders and see you for the failure that you are as president. Your debate performance looked good compared to your performance as president
MinnyMart: So you acknowledge Bush as an irresponsible spender yet have no problem supporting the man with identical priorities? Our economy collapsed under a president that implemented a 400 billion a year top down cut and want to elect the next president whose major plan is a 500 billion a year top down plan?
Bush's irresponsible spending was cutting taxes 400 billion a year unfunded, a 300 billion a year drug plan unfunded, 2 wars unfunded. Romney's plan is a 500 billion tax cut which can't be funded if he keeps his promises. A 200 billion increased military spending unfunded and a new space program unfunded.
Every word out of Romney's mouth is a lie. He claims his plan isn't to give tax breaks to the wealthy but the 3% of small business that falls through the cracks with Obama's 250K cutoff. If true why wouldn't Romney simply raise the cutoff to 500K or 1 million to include the 3% Obama's plan misses instead of including the ultra rich? If true why are republicans refusing to extend the Bush tax cuts unless it also includes the ultra rich? If he believes people like himself who was required to pay 10.3% on 13 million income doesn't need a break why is he giving them one?
Before Reagan implemented his trickle down theory the top 1% owned 10% of the countries net worth today it's 24%. The top 400 people on Forbes 400 have a combined net worth that exceeds the net worth of the bottom 60% or 185 million people. Why do they need another break? If Romney's plan is implemented his 10.3% rate will be at or near zero and trickle down will have acheived it's ultimate goal, only little people will pay taxes.
Barring a complete meltdown, which didn't happen, If one debate at this point is enough to determine an election, the country is in a world of hurt. Obama has a track record of four years as does congress, Romney is on record over the last couple of years and in the past. If it is O.K. to say whatever you think people want to hear on a given day and get votes on that performance, so that it is all about theatre.....
Kind of like something I read recently where most people are locked in w/their votes already and early voting has been going on for some time. There is no question where Obama is coming from, there is no question on Romney's orientation.
I think Romney would be an excellent person to have as an appointee of a business-oriented department of the government where working to efficiencies was the goal-- one objective, working to get that done. He is a horrible candidate for the top job, as that one requires you to have some compassion and need to be able to deal with many things at the same time. The biggest problem w/Romney in the election, though, is that he would be beholden to the radical right... those who don't believe in evolution, who are so paranoid they feel the need to be armed to the teeth in their own home, those who's lives seem to be ruled and defined by fear of anything not like them. With a Republican House, a Republican Prez and a close Senate, the Bush years of War and debt and the Patriot Act, complete w/washboarding, could seem lik the good old days.
My hope is that Obama wins, he retains a small majority in the Senate, and the Pubs in the house lose some seats but retain a majority. I hope the right gets chastened in the election just enough to realize that the politics of hate and fear need to end but that they retain and truly adhere to the goals of fiscal responsibility. We are on the verge of a major economic recovery and technical advances continue at warp speed, I think this mix, if approached w/integrity from both sides can result in a decent mix of advancing both our economic and social agendas as a country.
I would classify a BULLY as someone that would sue a bank to force them to give a loan to someone that could not afford one. LOOK UP OBAMA vs Citibank.
NOBAMA 2012
Might I make a suggestion for O'bama....Set up a whole control panel of teleprompters, each with the topic of discussion designated.. then have a search for possible rebuttals that will pop up appropriate answers. This will only cause a slight pause in his counter attacks!
How can you have a debate with an opponent who changes his position by the minute. Getting prepared for a debate on the positions he took during his campaign is one thing, but then find out his position changed, and it is not clear what exactly his plans are, there is nothing left to debate.
Reasons to fear Willard Romney.
Williard believes when he dies, because he is a baptized Mormon
he will become a God! So no matter what he does or says he will simply have to
say he is sorry to God when he dies to become a God.
Willard Believes Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we
were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).
God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p.
321)"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits
enthroned in yonder heavens!!!
God resides near a star called Kolob, (Pearl of Great Price,
p. 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428)
After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of
becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354.)Then
shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject
unto them," (D&C 132:20).
There are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).
God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit
children.(Mormon Doctrine, p. 516).
Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our
sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses,
vol. 3, 1856, p. 247).
"Christ Not Begotten of Holy Ghost ...Christ was
begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was
God!" (Doctrines of Salvation, by Joseph Smith, 1954, 1:18).
If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration,
there would be no salvation (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670).
"One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by
Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of
God;(Miracle of Forgiveness p. 206).
Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our
sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses,
vol. 3, 1856, p. 247).
There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a
prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188
"As these sins are the result of individual acts it is
just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance
with prescribed requirements 'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the
Gospel,'" (Articles of Faith, p.79). Another words Man forgives you.
"Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and
the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God [anyhow]--three in
one and one in three. . .It is curious organization… All are crammed into one
God according to sectarianism (Christian faith). It would make the biggest God
in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God--he would be a giant or a
monster," (Joseph Smith, Teachings, p. 372).
Do want a person who believes he is God to be President.
Taken from Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry carm.org
Did you check Obama touting the huge amount of stimulus money that went to green energy in the debate ? In 2010 the Watchdog Institute, based at San Diego State University, reported 80% of $1 billion in grants to wind energy went to overseas companies. Obama is using our money to outsource jobs. The American University fact checked the claim that Obama's stimulus created 70 wind farms. It found 19 of the 70 were in place before the first stimulus payments were made. Of the jobs Obama said the wind farms created, many were short term construction jobs in erecting the wind farms built largely with parts made outside the U.S.. As far as the rich getting money- like the bank bailouts- which administration bailed them out ? The gap between the rich and poor is growing. The Quantitative easing that keeps coming from the fed- a few trillion- how many of you have seen it ? That money is going to the banks and Wall Street. Every time you see a round of easing, the stock market goes wild. The banks are being paid interest on the extra reserves sitting on their "shelves" by our government. Interest rates are low. Do you see a line at the bank ? The standards for the average person to get a loan excludes them.
With Bailout 3, 1 month in sure stocks look good, the Fed is pumping them full of money !
At some point the things he is doing will mess every one up, When every one is a Millionaire, the person with 10cents in silver or 1oz in gold will be king !
Till then...
Obama 2012 Cradle to the Grave ! Give me your Money !
I'll be laughing when he takes your freedoms, like the 1st and 2nd rights..
Can't Hide,
It is a sorry state of affairs indeed when whether a man puts his hand over his heart (which he actually does, you know but I guess you don't care about the truth) means more to a person than the fact that Republicans, who are Americans themselves, can only, ONLY deride our country's progress out of the deepest hole since 1929. Why is it that Reps cannot even be glad when there are good things happening? Which there are many. Why is that? Could it be because your only aim is to unseat the man you cannot accept as President? Hmm?
To me, constantly and relentless attacking of our own country is far less patriotic that putting your hand over your heart. Anybody do that, it is a pious outward show that may or may not be meaningful.
interesting 9ball .... you said Mass went from 25th to 47th in jobs under Romney. I went and found the numbers and when he took over Mass was dead last, or you could say 51st as they were even behind D.C. The second year Mass was 46th, third year 40th and his last year they were 28th and had an unemployment rate of 4.6% when he left. Where the heck do you get 47th when he left?
Richard ... so you think Romney has no compasion? Seriously? What about when one of the children of his employees went missing? He basically shut down the company, with pay for everyone, for all of them to go comb the neighborhoods around where the child went missing with flyers and searching. Kid was found. That sound like an unpationate person to you?
Every American citizen (man, woman or child), owes $51,568 in national debt. In my state, each citizen owes and additional $10,322 in state and local debt. In 1960, health care was 5.1% of GDP in the U.S. In 2007, it was 15.3%. The highest on the planet and the 19 next most wealthy countries by GDP ALL paid less than half of what the U.S. did for health care. IN 2011, Dr. Donal Berwick, the Administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services said 20- 30% of health care spending in the U.S. was waste. He said 5 causes were: over-treatment of patients, failure to coordinate care, administrative complexity, burdensome rules, and fraud. I talked to a V.P. at our local hospital and asked how Obamacare would affect them. He said the paper work and complicated rules were going to raise costs. The bureaucrats are also doing a lousy job at weeding out fraud.
I still believe that the first debate was a plan, by president Obama, to let Romney hang himself... Now in the next debate Romney will have to give answers to the lies he has been spewing....
A president that was so cool at a correspondence dinner, making fun of Trump, while at the very same time knew he had given the order to take out OBL is nobodies fool...
Bottom line, the old white-male-power (WASP) in Washington, hate the fact that a mixed raced person is the residence of the white house... Four more years and while at it, change the constitution so that President Obama can run for a third term or more....
Silverton
No problem but then why can we blame the Clinton administration for the banking failure. How about blaming the 911 on the Clinton administration because they stopped the FBI and CIA from sharing information.
Blaming Bush only shows that Obama has NO ANSWERS. After nearly four years we have a stagnant economy, 14.9% real unemployment, 16 trillion in debt, the largest tax increase in American history, unsecured borders, etc.
Which Obama are you selling the one that owes favors to all his political donors or the one that can't seem to find Washington DC? This guy has never understood that he is president to ALL AMERICANS and not just the wacky left or the union leaders that he surrounds himself with.
Unfortunately, an estimated 70% of democrats have been shown to be products of a broken single parent or dysfunctional home as is evidenced in many of these posts. Psychiatrists point out that dysfunction in the home leads to emotional instability, mental illness and almost always gross narcissism.
The net result is a mentally unbalanced and dysfunctional agenda; abortion (killing of a human for convenience rather than being sexually responsible), gay marriage (confusion and perversion they believe must be legalized and normalized), entitlement mentality (the belief that you are owed something), socialism (no father in the home creates the expectation that the government should be the daddy).
Sadly, Barack Obama was a product of an extremely dysfunctional home! In fact, his mother, Ann Dunham, was active in the pornography industry posing in bondage and vintage fetish magazines, Many of these filthy and perverted photos were taken at Frank Marshall Davis' house in Honolulu and appeared in Bizarre Life, Exotique, Secret Pleasures, and Battling Babes.
Frank Marshall Davis, a Communist Party USA propagandist went on to shape Obama's world view during his formative years. Barack Obama's namesake father was a polygamist who was actually married to multiple women. Extraordinary efforts have been launched to misdirect Americans from Obama’s deeply disturbing family background and Marxist political foundation.
I'm glad Obama is going to spend more on education. Prices for everything as a whole are at 115.06 % of 1986. College tuition is 493.1 % of 1986. Just throw money at it- that will solve the problem. We spend more money per capita on education than any other nation on the planet. How is that working out for you ?
NHLucky .... there has been several occasions Obama has NOT put his hand over his heart during the national anthem. A guy in my facebook group has one such occasion up as his main pic. Former Gov Bill Richardson was in the pic along with several other ladies. All had their hands over their hearts looking at flag , except Obama. Some may care, some may not, but it has happened.
BAAAAAAAAAA! BAAAAAAAAA! BAAAAAAAAA!
The Sheep are believing what they want to believe, have been told to believe and have been programmed to believe.The week minded are easily herded. If Obama is re-elected we are all in for a shearing
Obama in his inaugural address said he was going to level the playing field, that everyone would share in feeling the pain, that he was going to throw special interests out of D.C. and cut the pork out of bills. The health care bill was so massive no one could even read the whole thing before they voted. Why was it so massive ? Don't hold your breath. Obama did make special interests meet at the Caribou Coffee House instead of the White House so they wouldn't have to sign in. He also defined lobbyists as not lobbyists.
There was no "plan" to let Romney win. One key thing in a debate is having a position to defend. When BO railed against 2 Billion in subsidies in the debate, then Romney pointed out that BO gave 90 BILLION in subsidies, BO just looked down and smirked. Same with BO promising our health premiums would be $2500 lower. They are $2500 HIGHER. Thats why he did bad during the debate.
MT...
Yeah....that was good one...the President "planned" to look like a clueless dope at the first debate !!!
Maybe the President should show up at the next debate with Admiral Sandra Fluke in tow...she may not be able to help him answer any questions, but the libs all seem to burst into applause wherever she shows up.
Richard Lambert,
Romney DOES have a four year record. In Massachusetts. He left our state in a major mess. Despite his claims to the contrary. Which is why his numbers look the way they do. If you want to know how good a leader is, why not look to the people who have experienced his leadership? Huh?
LOL.....
Mr. Obama in Bollywood rubbing elbows with the Multi-millionaire "starz" while he continues to hammer the rich with his "class warfare" and that the "rich" should pay their fair share.
Yep, Mr. Obama has now surpassed Mr. Carter as the worst President in U.S. history.
Sorta strange that Mr. Obama is telling his flock of sheep to not "lose enthusiasm". Looks like the Obamamites have had enough and are bailing the sinking ship.
I wonder if Mr. Obama sneaked down to Venezula to cast a vote for Chavez during a campaign break.
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Voted for Mr. Obama in 2008 ? Embarrassed yet ?
NHL...
Correct....just like the way some sane voters who "have experienced his leadership" are second-guessing their support for Mr. Obama this time around.
Liberal angst is so thick these days you could cut it with the same knife Romney will use on obammy's wasteful and ineffective social programs!
Romney/Ryan 2012, to keep the USA out of bankruptcy!
Free Market fan....."Liberal angst is so thick these days......"
The Progressive (Liberal-Democrat) anger over not being able to defend Mr. Obama is very apparent and displayed routinely on T.V. talk shows. These surrogates cannot defend Mr. Obama's domestic and International policies and revert to saying "Romney is lying" and when they really get frustrated, they start yelling and screaming like a bunch of children wanting a toy.
And we wonder why nothing can get done in Congress. There are NO Progressives who will work across the aisle. It is "their way" or "the highway". Remember when Mr. Obama called down Senator McCain when he said "We won". Yet, the Progressives will continue to say they have "tried" to work across the aisle.....which is a COMPLETE AND TOTAL LIE. Mr. "Pocket Veto" Reid is a good example.
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Romney-Ryan 2012 to take back America from the Progressives and the RADICALS.
tony -- I have "experienced" both of them. And, with all due respect to Lloyd Bentsen, Romney is no Obama. There is just no comparison. None. Obama has kept his promises and been responsible and reliable. Romney changes his tune and expects us all to forget what he said yesterday. His debate claims contradicted the policiies on his own web site, for heaven's sake. I don't know which of Romney's positions you find appealing, but I can guarantee you they will change and you won't like the new ones. I guarantee it.
And as far as his claim of working across the aisle, that is pure bunk. He did not do that in Mass and he will not do it in DC. He will be a prisoner of the far right that put him there and he will dance to their tune. And if he doesn't they will turn on him and block him the way they have blocked Obama. If you are fine with that, then he is your man.
I'll take a guy who is trustworthy and has made the best of a very, very bad hand, compounded by those "patriots" in the Congress whose sole purpose in life is to block Obama because they simply cannot accept that he is President of the United States. That's really patriotic.
If Romney's claim to having worked "across the aisle" is "pure bunk" then how did he get a single item passed when he was governor of Massachusetts, where the statehouse was almost 90% Democrat ???
Mr. Obama is "President of the United States"...he's just not very good at the job.
Mitt Romney Successes:
AMC Entertainment
Burger King
Burlington Coat Factory
Clear Channel Communications
Domino’s Pizza
Dunk’n Donuts
Guitar Center
The Sports Authority
Staples
Toys R Us
Warner Music Group
Barack Hussein Obama’s Successes(?):
Solyndra (bankrupt)
Ener 1 (bankrupt)
Beacon Power (bankrupt)
Abound Solar (bankrupt)
Spectra Watt (bankrupt)
Eastern Energy (bankrupt)
United States of America (on track to bankruptcy)
The choice is clear…. Free Market over Socialism - Obama’s a failure
ROMNEY/RYAN 2012
You people are the only ones bringing up race...
Do we really need to post the lies he has made AGAIN?
My neighbors voted for Obama last year. A couple weeks ago they put up a Romney/Ryan sign in their yard. And they didn't even need to watch the debate to convince them Obama is the Wrong Way! LOL!
They aren't being fooled by the Kenyan fool, are you?!
Free Market fan
My angst stems from the fact that a good portion of Americans have been so brainwashed, frightened, deluded and dumbed-down that they will gladly vote against their own self interest and the future of our country.
Turn off Fox 'News', shut off Limbaugh, ignore Mann Coulter, Glenn Beck, Alan West, Donald Trump, Newt Gingrich and the rest of the lunatic fringe. They are nothing more than brazen self-promoters out to get more viewers, sell more books, or get re-elected.
USE YOUR OWN BRAIN... such as it is.
I beg to differ:
"YOU people' need to get past the pigmentation. You should be ashamed of yourselves. I'm ashamed for our country that people like you still exist in America, cowards who feel free to slur--anonymously on the internet-- The President of The United States of America for the color of his skin.
The liberals at this site all have one thing in common.... they're great for giggles and farts, but not much else! Obnoxious, mean spirited comments make up 99% of your meaningless posts!
But then maybe that's all you strive for... giggles and farts!
Obama asking NOT to lose enthusiasm? What is there to be enthusiastic about?
1) Worst economic recovery since the Great Depression
2) Economic growth at an anemic 1.3% nearly 4 years AFTER taking office
3) 1 in 7 now on Food Stamps - highest since the program was even started
4) Historically high unemployment during Obama's entire 4 years in office
5) Highest percentage of unemployed 6 months or more since the Great Depression
6) Lowest Labor Participation rate since the 70's
7) 1 in 6 in Poverty - highest since the 70's
8) Due to Obama's foreign policy the world hates us MORE than when George W. Bush was president
9) And I can go on and on.
This president has FAILED at everything he has done. How can even a lemming continue following this catastrophe of a president? Do not LOSE enthusiasm? How do you even HAVE any enthusiasm?
BillT: You mention Romney/Ryan signs. I went all over the internet trying to find one and they are few and far between. Found one site that had 6 different Romney/Ryan sign designs - 4 were sold out. I purchased one of the remaining 2 designs (BTW, STILL waiting for it to be delivered so I can put it in my yard!!). But the interesting part is this same company had about 6 designs of Obama signs - and they were all marked down trying to get rid of them!!
So in summary: Romney/Ryan signs selling out. Obama signs marked down because they are not selling. Looks to my like they are not LOSING enthusiasm - they have LOST enthusiasm............
Tony, he didn't 'get" much passed. He had hundreds of overridden vetoes. Hundreds -- I think maybe 700 or more. The Democrats "got" stuff passed, not Romney. That's how it works, you know. The legislature passes stuff; if he worked across the aisle so much, how come he had hundreds of overridden vetoes?
As noted earlier, Romneycare, his big success that he "got passed," happened because the Democrats wanted universal coverage and Ted Kennedy got the Feds to kick in an amount that made it possible,not because of Mitt's non-existent bipartisan skills.
People should really take a look at what happened during those 4 years in Mass. It would be instructive.
kaybee...
Why not enlighten the readers as to where the majority of folks that vote the same way you do go to get their news to avoid becoming "brainwashed, frightened, deluded, and dumbed down" ??? It seems this would be important information to share for the benefit of others and as a proud Democrat voter, you'd have first hand knowledge of where voters like yourself have been "brainwashed, frightened, deluded, and dumbed down", since there are so many in your party who have suffered those fates.
The rest of us will stay away from those places.
NHL...
Far more "instructive" and certainly much more relevant is people taking "a look at what happened" in these past four years.
Many do not like what they see.
... There are idiots everywhere I see, course, I am not a republican. I see a lot more racism from the left than from the right. With the right you see it every once in awhile from the lunatics in the party. You see it on the left far more(not in posts). Just look up the term anti-racist and see how many sites come up.
Not a libertarian either, keep guessing.
To Can't Hide From the Truth: For graphs see http://www.voxeu.org/article/which-50-states-practise-personal-responsibility
Sex, money, red states and blue states
Jeffrey Frankel, 2 October 2012
Cultural generalisations are dangerous. Sometimes, however, statistical relationships are so strong that it is worth pondering their significance. Are some groups more likely to take responsibility for their personal behaviour than others with respect to their sexual behaviour, physical fitness, financial dependency on the federal government? The fearless social scientist will not shrink from confronting these questions.
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Mitt Romney, the Republican candidate for US president, said in now-infamous comments that 47% of the electorate is dependent on the federal government, that he will never be able to teach them to take personal responsibility for their lives, and that they are certain to vote for Barack Obama in November. He continues a tradition in his party that goes back at least three decades: building political campaigns around the proposition that folks in the heartland exhibit the American virtues of self-sufficiency and personal responsibility, with the implication that more urban regions display decadent social values and dependency on government.
It is a good general rule to judge people on their own merits and not on the supposed attributes of the racial, socioeconomic or geographic groups to which they belong. Cultural generalisations are dangerous. But since questions have been raised, the fearless social scientist will not shrink from confronting them. Are residents of 'red states', who tend to vote Republican, indeed more likely to take responsibility for their personal behaviour than those who live in 'blue states' and tend to vote Democratic?
The statistical reality is that the red-staters are, on average, less prone to pay income taxes, more prone to receive subsidies from the federal government, less physically fit, less responsible in their sexual behaviour, more prone to inflict harm on themselves and on others through smoking, drunk driving and misuse of firearms, and more prone to freeride on the healthcare system, compared to blue-staters.
Economists have long known that, in spite of the rhetoric about 'getting the government off our backs', the red states receive more federal spending, net of taxes, than the blue states. Alaska, Mississippi, Louisiana, West Virginia, and the Dakotas topped the list of moochers in 2005. Despite Romney’s comments, it is the states with high percentages of people who pay no income tax that tend to vote Republican. Mississippi is number one, followed by Georgia, Alabama, Arkansas and South Carolina. The Democratic-leaning states of New England (comprising Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Vermont), New York, New Jersey, and California are the ones paying into the federal treasury and subsidising everyone else. Updated data show the same pattern in 2007. The mid-Atlantic states, New England, Minnesota, and Illinois are the biggest net givers. Alaskans are the most dependent on the federal government, receiving $7,448 in spending (net of taxes) per capita. (That is not even counting the handouts of oil revenues that they get from their own state government). Those who claim to be fiscally conservative are the ones who in truth tend to be the biggest sources of deficits vis-à-vis the federal government.
Figure 1 puts on the horizontal axis each state's tax receipt of federal government spending, net of taxes paid in, per capita. The vertical axis shows the ratio of Democratic to Republican votes by state. The red states (low in the graph) tend to be on the receiving end (right of zero). The blue states (high in the graph) constitute a majority of the ones that foot the bill (positive contributions to the nationwide kitty). The relationship is of great statistical significance.
Figure 1. Federal spending received, minus taxes paid, by blue and red states
Note: Average of votes in 2000, 2004 and 2008 presidential elections.
Most people don’t know that similar relationships hold regarding various other measures of personal responsibility. The numbers show that states where residents suffer more from obesity, in part because they get less physical exercise and have worse eating habits, tend to be the states that vote Republican. To illustrate, a mere one percentage point decrease in a state’s obesity rate is associated on average with an estimated increase in the ratio of Democratic to Republican voters from 1.00 to 1.07 – enough to make the difference in many an election. The statistical confidence interval is slim enough to exclude a zero effect. A physical fitness index, combining absence of obesity with physical exercise, shows a strong relationship with voting. (See statistical appendix at my website.)
Figure 2. Obesity (percentage of population) among blue vs. red states
Note: Average of votes in 2000, 2004 and 2008 presidential elections.
Figure 3. Smoking rates (adults) among blue and red states
Note: Average of votes in 2000, 2004 and 2008 presidential elections.
Other measures of personal responsibility show similar patterns. States with high rates of smoking vote Republican too, as Figure 3 illustrates. States with high rates of fatal accidents from drunk driving vote Republican (Figure 4). States with high rates of firearms assaults – not gun ownership, but armed assaults – vote Republican (Figure 5). Again, these relationships are highly significant statistically. An index of risky behaviour, combining the drunk driving and firearms assaults numbers, shows strong relationship (appendix).
Figure 4. Drunk driving fatalities among blue and red states
Note: Average of votes in 2000, 2004 and 2008 presidential elections.
Sex is interesting. Notwithstanding fervent proclamations about the importance of abstaining from sex before marriage, evidence suggests that young people in red states do not act the way they talk. They do have sex before marriage, and it is less likely to be safe sex than among those in blue states. States that vote Republican have higher pregnancy rates among girls aged 15 to 17, as Figure 5 shows (the difference is highly significant statistically). They also have higher rates of the sexually-transmitted disease chlamydia (this difference, unlike the others, is not statistically significant at the aggregate state level, but is when combined into an overall measure of unsafe sex).
Apparently the gap between what they say and what they do is particularly wide for teenagers who describe themselves as evangelical Christians. According to research by Mark Regnerus (a sociologist at the University of Texas, Austin), white evangelical adolescents usually (74%) state a belief in abstinence before marriage, but in fact are surprisingly more active sexually, compared to mainline Protestants and Jews who do not tend to state such a belief. When the believers in abstinence do engage in sex, they are less likely to use contraception than others. The gap between word and deed is high for the millions of teenagers who take a formal pledge to remain celibate until marriage, typically in a ring ceremony, according to “Red Sex, Blue Sex,” a New Yorker article by Margaret Talbott. The majority of them, though holding out for a while, “end up having sex before marriage, and not usually with their future spouse.” Two other sociologists, Peter Bearman (Columbia University) and Hannah Bruckner (Yale) find a positive correlation between the abstinence pledge and sexually transmitted diseases. Pledgers are less likely to use a condom if and when they first have sex and overall are slightly more likely to contract a sexually transmitted disease. (Under George W Bush, the federal government subsidised such abstinence pledge programs despite their questionable effectiveness.)
Figure 5. Teenage pregnancy rates (among girls aged 15 to 17) among blue and red states
Note: Average of votes in 2000, 2004 and 2008 presidential elections.
Utah is the most conspicuous outlier in most of these relationships. It has a high population of Mormons. Apparently they follow the strictures of their religion more closely than those of other religious denominations. (Could this be why evangelicals tend to resent Mormons so much, according to opinion polls?) But, on average, the relationship holds nonetheless.
It is particularly striking that the states where the most residents exhibit behaviour that endangers their health and that of others – with many of these unhealthy people later freeriding on their fellow citizens when they show up uninsured in the hospital emergency room – are also the states where congressmen tended to vote against the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) in 2010. (See Figure 1 in my blogpost on Obamacare or the graph in an op-ed, or associated regressions in appendices.) This risky behaviour includes poor physical fitness (as measured by rates of obesity, lack of exercise, and poor diet), careless sexual behaviour (as measured by rates of pregnancy among girls aged 15 to 17 and rates of chlamydia), smoking, drunk driving (as reflected in fatalities) and irresponsible use of guns (as reflected in armed assaults). Each obese American incurs medical costs 42% higher than those of normal weight. Often others are stuck with the bill because they are uninsured. They may, for example, be unable to get health insurance because they are so overweight. These people are freeriders on the healthcare system even if they don’t want to be. Obamacare was designed to fix this problem.
Most US citizens don’t know what the Affordable Care Act does. Many think that it reduces personal responsibility for healthcare, but the truth is the opposite. Under the current system, hospitals are required to treat patients who show up at the emergency entrance with a heart attack – even if their condition is partly their fault, due to habits of overeating and under-exercising. The hospitals have to pass the costs on, and the rest of the US ends up footing the bill. The individual mandate is designed to fix that, by making everyone pay for the health care they get. One benefit is that it will encourage them to see a doctor, who will typically advise them to adopt a healthy lifestyle by exercising, eating better, stop smoking, and deal with alcoholism. Establishing personal responsibility, not socialised medicine, is the reason why conservative think tanks such as the Heritage Foundation proposed the idea of the universal mandate in the first place, and why Mitt Romney enacted it in Massachusetts when he was governor.
What makes all these patterns so remarkable of course is that the central animating principle in the campaigns of most red-state political candidates is the claim that they, representing the American heartland, believe in personal responsibility, family values, and “getting the government off our backs,” while the decadent blue states are accused of being free-riders who lack a sense of social morality.
It seems to me that, until now, 'liberals' who live in the blue states have, out of politeness, held back from suggesting that those who live in red states exhibit behaviour in their personal lives that falls short of the conservative rhetoric of personal responsibility in which their politicians revel. It would be unseemly and elitist to point fingers at any category of fellow Americans and imply that they are promiscuous, fat, gluttonous, lazy, uneducated, or that they are more prone to divorce and shootings. (Residents of blue states tend to be more educated and to have higher incomes than residents of red states, thus qualifying us as 'elites'.)
Charles Murray features such statistics in his book, Coming Apart. Murray argues that those who live in the 'super zip codes' – the areas with high levels of income and education – are maintaining the traditional American values of hard work and family values. Those who live elsewhere show 'crashing' rates of industriousness and marriage. (His statistics look at white people only, so as to control for race.) Earlier studies had documented that divorce rates have declined among blue-state households, while they have continued to rise in red states. Carbone and Cahn (2010): “The areas of the country most committed to traditional values have the highest divorce and teen pregnancy rates.” (The decline in divorce is associated with educated women who delay marriage in the first place. Carbone and Cahn 2012, and Goldin and Katz 2002.)
Many academic researchers and news media fear accusations of liberal bias. Murray may be immune from this fear. He is well-known as a conservative/libertarian whose book The Bell Curve dealt with black-white differences in test achievement.
While some reviewers have taken away from Murray’s book the message that those who live in the super zip codes should feel guilty for their virtuous qualities, professional achievements, and economic success, Murray is not worried that he will be accused of elitism. His criticism of those living in the super zips is quite different. Although they tend to live responsible and virtuous lives, they are failing to exhort others to do the same: “The new upper class still does a good job of practicing some of the virtues, but it no longer preaches them. It … preaches non-judgmentalism instead. Non-judgmentalism is one of the more baffling features of the new-upper-class culture. The members of the new upper class are industrious to the point of obsession, but there are no derogatory labels for adults who are not industrious” (p.289). The problem is “an unwillingness on the part of any significant portion of the new upper class to preach what they practice”.
This judgment is remarkable. Many residents of red states have been doing the opposite, i.e. preaching personal responsibility, family values, self-reliance and small government, while engaging in risky behaviour, failing to form stable families, and reaping federal subsidies. Surely a failure to practice what you preach is more objectionable than a failure to preach what you practice. But red-state politicians have long used this hypocrisy as a successful strategy. And they use it against responsibility-promoting policies to help their own citizens, such as sex education, Obamacare, and support for education.
Do these statistical relationships between personal responsibility and voting behaviour have analytical implications? How can one explain such counter-intuitive results? I have pondered this puzzling question. I am still not sure of the answer. But here is what I have to offer.
One major reason for countries having trouble maintaining fiscal discipline is that voters consider the specific government spending that benefits them personally to be well-deserved while considering most other spending to be wasteful. Florida retirees believe in social security benefits, Midwestern farmers believe in agricultural price supports, Californians believe in water subsidies, Texans believe in oil subsidies, coastal communities believe in fishing subsidies, Michigan auto workers believe in support for their industry, and so forth.
It stands to reason that some people are less self-aware than others, and less knowledgeable on how the budget adds up, for whatever other reason. We hear repeatedly of seniors who tell politicians to keep the federal government away from their medicare, of ranchers who support the Tea Party or right-wing militia while collecting farm subsidies.
The people who suffer the biggest gap between their perceived and actual share of the federal pie are likely to be getting a disproportionate share and yet to believe the opposite. If they believe that others are getting more than they themselves are, they are more likely to buy into the angry belief that other social groups are freeriding on society, and the ideology that government spending is wasteful and needs to be cut back, without realising that this includes the benefits they themselves receive. Perhaps these people are more likely to vote for Republican politicians, who tell them what they want to hear. It’s a theory, anyway.
This article draws in part on an op-ed published by Project Syndicate. Statistical details are available here.
References
CM Atlas, TW Gilligan, RJ Hendershott , 1995, “Slicing the federal government net spending pie: Who wins, who loses, and why”, American Economic Review, Vol. 85, No. 3, Jun..
Hannah Brückner, and Peter Bearman (2001). “Promising the Future: Abstinence Pledges and the Transition to First Intercourse”, American Journal of Sociology, 106: 859-912.
Hannah Brückner and Peter Bearman, “After the promise: the STD consequences of adolescent virginity pledges”, Journal of Adolescent Health 36 (2005) 271-78.
Naomi Cahn and June Carbone, Red Families v. Blue Families: Legal Polarization and the Creation of Culture, 2010 (Oxford University Press).
June Carbone and Naomi Cahn “Red vs. Blue Marriage,” Jan. 30, 2012 SSRN paper no. 1995822.
Jeffrey Frankel, 2003, “Republican and Democratic Presidents Have Switched Economic Policies”, Milken Institute Review. vol.5, no.1, 1st Quarter, pp.18-25.
Jeffrey Frankel, 2012, "Obamacare champions personal responsibility. The states that hate it don't", Christian Science Monitor, Sept. 6.
Claudia Goldin & Larry Katz. (2002). “The Power of the Pill: Oral Contraceptives and Women’s Career and Marriage Decisions”, Journal of Political Economy, 110, 730-770.
R Hingson, et al, 1996, “Reducing alcohol-impaired driving in Massachusetts: the Saving Lives Program”, American Journal of Public Health, June, 86, no. 6.
Charles Murray, 2012, Coming Apart: The State of White America, 1960-2010 (Crown Forum: NY).
Mark Regnerus, 2007, Forbidden Fruit: Sex and Religion in the Lives of America’s Teenagers, Oxford University Press.
Mark Regnerus and Jeremy Uecker, Premarital Sex in America: How Young Americans Meet, Mate, and Think about Marrying, Oxford University Press, 2011. esp. Ch.7 “Red Sex, Blue Sex: Relationship Norms in A Divided America”, pp.205-35.
tony,
Yes, well the people who have seen both have a clear favorite, don't they?
It's up to you if you fall for Romney's nonsense. I sympathize, because I fell for it myself the first time I saw it. He's very clever. My only consolation is that back then we didn't have the historical record we have now that amply documents Mitt's shape shifter behavior. I just hope to God most people have enough sense to recognize a snake oil salesman when they see one.
Madeline: Are you serious? Do you expect ANYBODY to read the BOOK you wrote? I have been known to get "long-winded" in these threads myself and try to limit to 3 paragraphs maximum but less if at all possible. But your entry? Good luck getting ANYBODY to read that nonsense.
And when you start it out with an untrue statement then DEFINITELY nobody is going to read it. When did Romney say "he will never be able to teach them to take personal responsibility for their lives" regarding the "47%" comment? Answer: He didn't. YOU said that. HE didn't say that.
So let me clarify for those who cannot understand what Romney was saying. Romney understands that MORE taxes slow down an economy and LESS taxes stimulate an economy. But when 47% do not pay income tax (and that is FACT from the IRS data) then the discussion of "lower income taxes" does not apply to 47% and they don't appreciate or fully understand how it will benefit them. He was NOT degrading them. He was NOT stating they are "dependent". He said that 47% don't fully appreciate the benefit to them of lower income taxes, since they don't pay income tax, so trying to convince them will be difficult so Romney will need to focus on the remaining 53% it WILL directly affect (in a positive manner I might add). But the growing economy it DOES create benefits EVERYBODY unlike the Obama plan to punish success and redistribute.
So when you arbitrarily state bull...... I mean "baloney" then how can anybody take the REST of your comments (and I mean THE REST of your book length comments) seriously?
Barry showed his true self in the debate (an angry little man) yet the left is still giving him another chance to be the same for another four years.......................
NHL...
The people do know a 'snake oil salesman" when they see one...like a guy who 'sells' a behemoth healthcare plan that nobody wanted but a few hundred 'look at me' politicians in DC while "jobs" should have been the priority...like a guy who sells a plan to cut the deficit in half but it doesn't...like a guy who takes nearly a trillion taxpayer dollars for supposed 'shovel ready jobs' that he later chuckles 'were not as shovel-ready as we thought'...like a guy who said that if he got his way, unemployment would be at 5.6% in 2012...like a guy who said his administration would be "the most transparent in history".
And I know, I know....the (R) voters who do not have "enough sense" will choose another path...and the truly wise (D) voters who have "enough sense" will stick with the same snake oil they've bought over the past four years. The measuring stick for who has 'enough sense' and who doesn't just must be determined by how they cast their next vote and it's Newsvine screamers who'll determine who votes sensibly and who does not.
Hey ProBusiness: This is an article that I reprinted in full to refute the absolute nonsense of the post from Cant hide from the truth #1.68 (in boldface).
The statistics about Red and Blue States are interesting on the indexes that some people might think have to do with morality, cited by Can't.
I do get very sick and tired of the far right moroncracy making statements that "70% of Democrats" come from broken homes, and the rest of his drivel.
It's VERY like Romney's mistaken claim that the 47% of the people who will not vote for him (and, believe me, they won't) are the same 47% who are "dependent" on government and won't take care for their lives (if those 47% even exist!). Clearly Romney never had a unit on "set theory" in Math class.
What is all this parsing around on What Romney said? It's pretty obvious, especially since he first said that he absolutely stands by his statement, and more recently is claiming that he was "wrong".
What statement was it that he had to admit he was "wrong" about?
Need I ask why your Avatar has a long nose, or is that obvious, too?
Madeline: Again, you twisted Romney's comment to fit your agenda. He did NOT say 47% are "dependent on government". He did NOT say 47% won't take care of their lives. What he said is 47% do not pay income taxes thus the topic of how tax cuts will help this economy grow fall on deaf ears from these individuals. That is like the city knocking on a door and saying they will fix the sidewalk and will lower the cost the homeowner has to pay - then find out the person is renting so doesn't apply. So does this person care the cost is being lowered? No, because it doesn't apply.
But the difference is even though the 47% do not pay income taxes the economy and society will improve due the increased economic activity. So these individuals WILL be better off AND have greater opportunity. But convincing them will be difficult - so Romney was simply saying they will need to focus the MESSAGE to the remaining 53%. That DOESN'T mean the 47% don't matter - and quite the contrary.
And Romney NEVER said he was "wrong". What he said was he could have said it differently so people, such as you, would better understand. What he said was "right" and STILL stands by it.
So simply repeating an incorrect logic continuously doesn't eventually make it correct.
Good thing there appears to be less and less brain dead enthusiasm for this failed president. Hope is good to have but it is no way to run a presidency or a country.
Probusiness
Yeah, like we're suppose to take your word on what Romney is saying? Seriously?
Romney understands that doubling down on the Bush policies will only enrich the rich further. That is what I understand!
It was proven with Clinton at 39% the economy flourished. You are disconnected, and out of touch with reality!
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Obama has a huge army blogging all this crap yes if you are a dummy vote for Obama but if you want a fighting chance we welcome you 2 vot for Romney
Last year, Obama stated the national unemployment percentage was just "a bump in the road"; this week the last presidential debate was just "a bump in the road". Obama better get off that road before he gets run over....
Last year, Obama stated, " the high national unemployment numbers are just a bump in the road." This week, Obama stated, " The last presidential debate was just a bump in the road." Obama had better get off that road before he get run over......
Probusiness: You're mistaken. Below is a cut and paste transcript word for word. If you use other statements that state it differently it doesn't change what he said on the secretly recorded video.
Better to have a job creator: Obama
masterdebater: Romney
As ROmney says TALK IS CHEAP
Obama 2012
....A Democratic majority in both Houses of Congress can do a lot of good in O's 2nd term.
.
In the first term, he had to be careful of any negative consequences for his re-election bid. Obama has always been right of center most of his first term - to win over the independents.
For example, he didn't get a single payer in healthcare reform, didn't push radical Wall Street reform, didn't close Guantanamo, etc... so that moderates won't be scared into Mitt's lap.
Funny pig, so if Romney moves to the middle he is a liar. When Obama radically moves to the left, after lying about being moderate, he is some how principled and a good candidate?
I hope Obama does win. It will guarantee a 3rd party will be successful sooner rather than later, as it will put to rest the idea that either of our two major parties have anything but their own lunatic fringe at heart. The Republican fringe and the Democrat fringe are truly destroying our nation, and if the majority in the middle do not wake up soon, they will destroy the nation. The last 4 years is proof of this.
As Romney demonstrates...Talk is cheap.
It was very clear Obama didn't even know how to respond to Romney ...
And any intelligent person knows why.
It's impossible for any civil knowledgeable individual to debate against someone like Romney who outright lied, exaggerated or flip-flopped on his past and his future plans. Romney sounded like a recording of a chemically imbalanced blabber.
Obama needs to call him on this during the next debate.
The President simply could not handle actual "agrument" of issues in an open discussion at the last debate. He is far too accustomed to reading his bleating speeches to his adoring masses of synchophants and basking in the applause directed towards anything he has read to them.
2nd Term for Obama will be the end of 1st 2nd and those other pesky rights we have..
Can't have the masses complaining, and fighting back now can we... specially when they realize the 20ish 40ish years of work they did is down the toilet !
losing that fourth and fifth one will be fun... "Whats this SALT, ... Sugar... these are illegal", "DEATH" !
Obama is guilty of the same. Gay marriage, guns, Guantanimo, and jobs. They're all liars and to say one is a bigger liar is just ignorant.
George Washington was for the zero party system. Read paragraphs 20-25 of his farewell address. He spoke to the dangers of a party system. He spoke of special interests using the parties as a vehicle. He spoke of gridlock, division and grudges.
Pigotry: You say having a Democrat controlled Congress will help Obama in the 2nd term - is that the SAME help a Democratically controlled Congress the FIRST two years of the Obama administration that wasted nearly a TRILLION dollars and STILL managed to stall any economic recovery that now 4 years later Obama STILL does not have a budget or a plan? You mean that FAILURE????
You are a dumbass who doesn't have the facts straight
Even having a majority doesn't mean a democratic president doesn't have to negotiate or could pass any bill. Democrats vote to reflect promises they made to constituents. Only republicans vote in lock step based not on the will of their constituents but the will of Grover Norquist. Having a majority of democrats and left leaning independents doesn't insure victory. Obama proposed a 2 trillion dollar cut with a 2 trillion increase on the rich and republicans countered with a plan that relied totally on cuts with none from the military. Doesn't sound like compromise to me. I could point out Obama only had a filibuster proof majority if all democrats and independants supported it for 14 weeks not 2 years but you've heard it before but still spew your twisted lies. I could link to the proof but you've seen those links many times and simply pretend you haven't to lie again.
Cut the military and the VA economy will crap a brick, 3/5 of northern VA will be furloughed, or fired.
If Romney is elected we will have 5 + Romneys trying to buy our election like their dad and granddad decades to come we should brace for that when we cast our vote for Mitt in this election.
Yes,
The Romney dynasty for the next 50 years at least. He has lots of kids and they all look Presidential.
Kind of like the Kennedy's only Republican. I like it.
I understand that another decendent of the drug cartel leader Joe Kennedy is thinking of another run in politics. Did you know that Ted is the only Senator with a confirmed kill in the war on women?
That's the sad part about a debate.. stupid prompters don't give me answers fast enough !
The Romney dynasty? Sounds like a VERY bad TV show, like Dallas, where the entitled rich support and encourage wars which they will dodge themselves (like Viet Nam), but instead send the poor, uneducated souls to do the dirty work and die. All while they reap huge corporate profits from weapons sales, and oil takeover.... how brilliant! JR Ewing looks like a saint compared to these plutocratic bastards. So.. all you Romneybots.... are you ready for this to happen.... and to send your children to go to war to die for Mittens and his boys.....? If you don't realize this scenario, in full you were NOT paying attention during Bush and you are NOT paying attention now. There is no honor in this family... just money as a motive.
Talk to...
"Kind of like the Kennedys"...only without the hookers, mistresses, and dead girlfriends.
The Kennedys where ones that told MLK do what we tell you or we will kill you well you know the end
What Romney says really disturbs me. He wants to increase defense by billions. We have seen a trillion in no bid contracts in Afghanistan and Iraq that only build their nations not ours. Is Romney looking to grease overseas contractors hands? Why else would he have a blank check? It is scary to think of.
GWB did it because he was part of a consortium that sold arms to the military. It's like writing your own paycheck. Romney probably is invested the same way.
Huge contracts with no regards for money. Hiring overseas workers to construct infrastructure in a foreign country. There is little oversight and the money we gush into these countries is sickening. Bush loved it. Haliburton was just the tip of the iceberg. Billions in defense Romney wants is just a pot of money his private buddies and overseas friends can dip their hands into.
"LOSE enthusiasm?????????????????????????????????"
Excuse me, but, exactly WHAT is the PIMP-in-Chief whining about now?
Hmm... obviously, there is "NO one in the Obama camp, including him" who can offer a "rational explanation" as to "WHY would there be ANY QUESTION about their supporters enthusiasm?"
BTW, when is the "last time anyone even heard anyone 'mention' that old phrase, Hope & Change?"
After all... as everyone knows, Obama supporters were SHOUTING those words everywhere in 2008?
Hmm... yes, it sure has gotten very, very quiet at the Obama campaign stops and even at their DNC convention?
You know "smaller crowds and lots of extra seats"... "couldn't fill the stadium, so the DNC moved inside?"
NOW, according to the PIMP-in-Chief, on top of everything else, there is a "lack of ENTHUSIASM" too?
Gee... I just can't imagine what could possibly be wrong?
Perhaps the President's supporters loss of enthusiam comes from being bored to tears hearing him give the same three pouty speeches every day of the week.
Speedy ! Good to see your posts again !! Where have you been ?
Oh, that's right, I keep forgetting that you and I have jobs and cannot "roost" here on this thread, pimping for Obama while collecting our welfare checks !!!
Speedy
You'll hear the thunder of Etch's @$$ cracking come November. That will be loud enough for trolls like you to hear.
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
One little known fact here,is that Adelson,one of Romney's biggest money backers (and a neo-con war supporter).Is also the money backer for the Israeli PM Netanyahu (also a war-monger). So of course Romney is pushing for war in the Middle East. His money men want war there. This is freely discussed in the Israeli press,though not reported much in our media.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/10/05/170732/romney-backer-sheldon-adelson.html
http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000784906&fid=4117
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2012/2/6/11645/93612
These stories (only three of many I've seen) tell the whole sorry tale of Romney's sell-out. This election is one of the most important in America's History.And the choice is clear for every American.
If you support another endless war vote Romney. If you oppose the idea of you or your kids facing another Republican war,vote Obama.
Um folks, if your following has to address a lack of enthusiams, you already have had a big problem for sometime.
DB I hear you. Romney still on his apology tour? Man I am wiping the tears off my face. From laughing...
Gee DB .. maybe you should bring out your poster child Ryan to run the distance race .. what is that 30 miles in 3 seconds or some crazy LALA land timed event. You sure know how to pick them.
Maybe you Dems should bring out your poster child Joe ... to run his mouth ! There's no telling what pearls of stupidity will flow !! Maybe Joe could remind us again how "taxed to death" middle class Americans have been during the past 4 years ... under Obama's reign.
Maybe you need to read Obamacare to see what other, sneaky little taxes are built into this law.
Even having a majority doesn't mean a democratic president doesn't have to negotiate or could pass any bill. Democrats vote to reflect promises they made to constituents. Only republicans vote in lock step based not on the will of their constituents but the will of Grover Norquist.
For anyone who relies on Obama ads to shape your opinion of Romney:
President Barack Obama has admitted using misleading TV ads in his no-holds-barred race for victory in November.
The passive-voice admission came during a low-key Sept. 23 interview with CBS, when he answered a question about many political advocates using what CBS called “nasty or negative ads.”
“Do we see sometimes us going overboard in our campaign — are there mistakes that are made or areas where there’s no doubt that somebody could dispute how we are presenting things? You know, that happens in politics,” Obama replied.
Read more: #ixzz28Y2iREIA
Man will use anything to retain his use of the White House and his plane.
Yeahhhhhhh because Romney ads are spot on. LOL. Hey Romney still complaining about the economy? Seems like employment went up or something like that......
the limo, the helicopter, the trips, the Kobe Beef, . . . . .
DB we the only people in a limo these days are getting the Romney tax entitlements. The rest are right where Romney likes us or the 47 percent he hates
Where do I park the Bentley in La Jolla? Anyone with an elevator handy?
I still think you omitted a vowel between the "P" and the "S".
Obama is in California hobknobbing with the stars again ... I guess he forgot about studying for the debate already, or simply needed to pick up more Hollywood cash ! LOL !!
So, we have two choices: 1) Obama - who has not reset his campaign more than ten times; and 2) Romney - who cannot seem to remember what his positions are, or at best, is only trying to "play" to the audience he is addressing. I do NOT trust Romney, therefore I will NOT vote for him. GOP keeps asking "are you better off?" Well, I have to admit, I am better off and I want to stay that way. Romeny's plan to elminate deductions will make my tax liability go up, he cannot justify lowering taxes across the board. The numbers do not add up. My stocks were DOA before Obama was elected, i.e. one was down at $4/share, now that one is at $65/share. The company I work for has increased it business in the last four years; and I have had a raise each year; our company also has not only met its budget, but exceeded its budget. Things are good for me, I will not be with Romney who seems to shape-shift more than a Star Trekk character.
I'm sorry fuktard, what's the messiahs platform again? Oh yeah, it's "I'm not that other guy"
Poor re-reg Joe with lotsa numbers. To bad they aren't in his bank account, the loser.
I just love the "taken back" "caught off guard" or that the altitude got to Obama. Thats why you prepare.
Stop the Socialism and vote Romney.
You must work for the government Kobol.
Oh, yeah, sure so we can go back to the previous 8 years? So the top 1% get a bigger tax cut. So we have a Commander In Chief not think diplomacy before committing troops to bogus wars?
Think not.
Stop the Fascism and vote for OBAMA/BIDEN 2012!
Actress Stacey Dash has thrown her support behind Mitt Romney for president. In meltdown mode, the Left is accusing her of not being black enough.
Wow, David Duke is that you? Wondered where you went
Obama 2012
Pillow case hats no way
dal..I agree...bunch of racist dems calling her a "fake black"??? WTF is that???
Well, I guess if we are grouping a party as racists based on a few peoples actions we would be accusing Democrats of what Republicans are always whining Democrats are doing. It is old
Hopeless never got over losing his plantation to the North. Dayum, that has to suck.
Making a rhyme. Obama says sorry about the debate but that is cool because Romney lost in 2008.
I guess if Romney gets a do over for his whole election Obama can have one for a debate
Urged not to lose enthusiasm, why would need to urge them at all? After all he’s done
such a bang up job. In fact according to the 5 year olds on First Read it’s clinched
(Fisty’s words). He also mentions ‘bumps in the road’, oh you mean like having
an ambassador killed on your watch, especially when your state department
failed to protect them even after warned? What a disaster of a president. Can’t
wait until we have a change in January, so tired of Obama’s divisive policies
and rhetoric.
Weird sounds like the right is the one harping on a guy being honest. Romney on his APOLOGY TOUR still?
Obama apologizes to terrorists.
Obama kills terrorists. Romney just does not want to waste the money looking for them. He would rather have another bailout
Obama kills jobs. The terrorists killed a U.S. Ambassador and 2 Navy Seals, and Obama blamed it on a youtube video lmao.
Gem, you are always amusing. Thank you for the laugh.
Well German Gem, you seemed to have crossed over some line of rationality. "Obama apologizes to terrorists"- yes he says "Gee I'm sorry that drone just dropped a hellfire missile on you". I would think someone calling themselves german gem would be sensitive to the insults they might receive for such dishonest posts. You should read a little more about what the average German knew about the concentration and death camps in WWII. It might make you a bit more reluctant to tout your german heritage. But probably not, all things considered.
GermanGem - Romney begs big money and sleeps with terrorists. What is your point?
B White .. you have to treat GermanGem with kitt gloves. Poor thing is a sex starved king/queen of some sort that needs parked car moments with Newt (and apparently Arnie) to keep ITS groove going. Poor thing is like a train wreck, awful to see but you can't stop watching.
Yeah, I heard Obama apologized to Bin Laden as they slid him off deck into the ocean.
That Obama is so spineless with the terrorists eh?
The right wing needs new talking points, their old ones are really stale.
MY GOD... You Reps are pathetic. I get so amused at you guys. All you's do is take a little fact, and use it way out of proportion, to try and state your case. Should the election be based on any single event?
It must be nice to have the priveledge to sit back and blame someone else for everything.
To me, this shows a complete lack of responsibility.
What if...and I know it will not happen...but what if...
Romney would win. Would he immediately take all responsibility for his office, and the state of the nation?
Or would he and the Reps be blaming it on Obama?
So here we go.
When Obama wins...it will be his responsibility.
If Romney would win, somehow it would still be Obama's responsibility.
Translation...Reps take no responsibility.
But, it's not okay for Dems to reflect upon the state of the nation that Bush left us in.
Just pathetic. You'd state a better opinion if you just kept quiet.
Pathetic.
This is the most pointless conversation I ever took time to read and now comment on...seriously! Both of these men should have their facts straight and sh*t together. It's one thing to be forgiving for a mistake or a bump in the road, now is not the time to be weak or forgetful or simply mindless. Charm takes a person so far and then it's a matter of performance. Both candidates have had ample time to prepare to state their positions and refute the others. Obama completely thought his charm was going to carry him through that debate, he was not prepared and Romney was ready to challenge, whether anyone likes what he said or not. The moderator was too kind or too weak to handle the debate and therefore that made BOTH men come across as a bully. GEEZ PEOPLE, get past the Democrat/Republican crap and form a decision based on fact and on what is best for the majority of people in this country. Also, history is just that history, every president throughout history had challenges to overcome...so flipping what, that goes with the job.....in fact it goes with ANY JOB! Up for a little humor....go to usajobs.gov or consumefinance.gov and see where the job industry is growing and the payroll that goes with it. I'm sick of excuses and blame across the board.
@Bill Hoo,
Repeatedly, we have heard the President and the liberals blame everything on Bush. And you have the gall to say Republicans take no responsibilty? Obama is in the last leg of his fourth year! And we still hear, it's Bushes fault.
Pathetic
Mr President do somethings anything 23 million people out of work and 45 million people on food stamps and your talking about big bird how's he taste like chicken?
Funny, a day or two after the horrible Obama debate performance a chorus line went up from the Democratic election machine and called Romney a 'lier'. So right in order I see the usual trolls like Backhouse, Pigotry, Fiesty, Bev repeat the term over and over again. Don't you folks have an original thought at all. Pretty funny, like children being lead around and repeated what they heard at some dinner party.
Well, I will say this every newsource, including FOX, is questioning Romney's debate. It was the most liberal flip flop I have heard for a long time. Very liberal. But it will change with the wind...
Hey, Sane America--- I don't think anybody called Romney a 'lier'. What they did call him is a liar. A Lier is used for someone who tries to make a point but fails because they can't spell. A liar is someone who can't tell the truth.
I think he meant "Lehr" which is the real reason the debate sucked.
@ Sane America,
What's really funny is that many republican supporters repeat the fact the Romney has been called a liar, over and over again, yet the Republican response is to say everyone lies, or to ignore and deflect. How can you call yourself an American, or say you want the best for America, when you would support a KNOWN liar, and defend him, in a public forum, without actually condemning said lies.
Shareef.....You have to compare the two. First, most the "lies" democrats talk about are not really lies at all once you examine the facts. The facts show that the "lies" were things taken completely out of context. Second, since we are talking about Known liars, then Romney would be the better option because it looks like he is more honest than Obama. In Obama's own "autobiography" he has been caught in dozens of lies.
correction to #3.
It's not 'like children being lead around'; it's 'like children being led around'. Do spelling check before posting. Bad English can undermine your message which I think..tongue in cheek...is really important.
Anybody that hasn't figured out by now that the main stream media is just feeding propaganda BS for the Obama Administration, Heaven help them!!
Obama was playing the empty chair
How does a "horrible Obama debate performance" change the fact of Romney's flip floppery and pandering to all sides and the middle at one time? Lies? More like competing sound waves that produce an incomprehensible White Noise.
Romney had Obama in the real world for an hour ...probably his first time...thats why he hung his head down most of the debate ..he was lost.
Joe66....weird how bin Laden did not feel that way...ohhh he is dead
Same bin laden you think Obama killed with his bare hands Dal...LOLOLOLOL..now thats funny
Joe66 You are an idoit. If you watched the debate - when the presidents head was down - he was taking notes of what was said. You are cherry picking the facts to fit your reality. Romney looked like he could debate by just spouting off about anything and everything with out providing any facts to support what he was saying. Wow it is so unbelievable that in today's age we still embrace ignorance and believe something just because. Our country is better off than it was 4 years ago - face the fact. We are back to where we were 4 years ago. We are back from the cliff and about to turn around. I don't want to face the edge of the cliff again - that is were the policies of ROmney/Ryan will take us. Wake up!
And Bush laid the foundation of the network to find bin laden. Then the Obama administration outed the informant. What's your point Red Cloud?
Democrats like to replay history and try to pretend what if their canidate did better. Its kind of like replaying in their minds a NBA payoff game and having their losing team winning the playoffs to make them feel better.
Red_Cloud...if Bush didn't lay groundwork to have bin laden killed, then we need to stop blaming Bush for four years of miserably failed policies. It goes both ways
They won't Obama ...your supporters want 4 more years of nothing again. I guess thats all they know.
Seems like 4 years of jobs but Romney will make sure those jobs go somewhere safe....like India where he sent them before
Romney will put you to work ...I wouldn't like him either.
Joe, joe, joe I always enjoy hearing your one liners. Every day you are breaking down a little. Very hard work to back Romney. But hey when your guy sucks make it personal. It is the Romney way.....
Well dal im not on handouts and welfare so dont have all day like you to sit and comment and throw off on ever ones comment.Get ready in November when Romney win because you will have to go to work..things will boom....be jobs for ever one and the economy will pick up. Be time here I have to be up at 5 ..hey I work for a living.
Joe, I have a question for you. How exactly is your boy planning this miracle of jobs for everyone? Click his heels three times?
LJ
Romney will remove all the restrictions on small business's to allow them to move forward and not be in quick sand like Obama has done...
You should read a little more and not be so lost!!!
DAL....congrats to the President for doing his job in giving an order to kill someone who laid up in the same area forever and when the US economy was in the crapper and the president needed a carrot to distract everyone, finally gave the order to kill him...smart move.
Now, if we could just get Obama to take care of another little, "messy" part of his job .... and get off his gluteus maximus and SEE TO IT that our country has a budget passed, in place and adhered to by Congress !
I know, I am dreaming to think Obama would actually sign a budget or actually enforce previously passed, existing laws he does not agree with !! Silly thoughts of mine ... Obama thinks and acts like a dictator !!!
Don't worry Mr President we will never lose our enthusiasm for your Presidency, the Republicans gave us a great gift, the weakest candidate in Willard Milton Romney!
The republicans made quite a deal over Sen Kerry's flip-flops and Romney flip-flops like a fish on the bottom of a boat!
Romney doesn't have a etch-a-sketch he has a sit and spin!
The 47% remarks come out and Romney stands by them, with all of the GOP and fox news cheering him on, now it was completely wrong? Another flip-flop and a couple of turns on the sit and spin! LOL
Fired up and ready to go! O&JOE
A little history lesson. Mitt was not a good governor. That's why Obama is favored 70-30 in Massachusetts. In 2002, Mitt ran the same compaign, started on the right, became moderate during the election and then reverted back to conservatism once he got in. His only main accomplishment was Romneycare, and that's because the Democrats wanted it and Ted Kennedy secured $385 million a year from the federal government to finance it.
He raised fees by $1 billion dollars, which disproportianately favores the wealthy. And his state was already number 1 in education when he took office. He wanted to make cuts to education which the dems wouldn't allow. In fact, most of what he wanted was defeated by the dems. His state lost jobs under his tenure and went from 25th to 47th in the nation for jobs creation. And most of the 19 tax cuts he talks about were one-day sales tax holidays.
Remember, here's a Republican who got elected in a heavily Democratic state. And then he flip flopped on his election promises in order to pander to the right to start his presidential bid. He was not able to reach accross the aisle at all, and not much was really accomplished.
It's quite evident that Mitt will say and do whatever is necessary to get elected, and then do whatever suits him best afterward. He is absolutely hated in Massachusetts.
Sorry, but the facts don't fit your claim. Massechutts started out as dead last when it came to job growth in the year before Romney took office and he steadily increased it until it ranked 28th in 4 years. He also lowered the deficit during the same time. If he can do that with Mass., why not the nation?
Thats why Massachusetts dont want anything to do with him. He was a failure there, just like he would be a failure as POTUS.
Gee, that's odd. I got my facts from the same place Mitt got his "I don't have a $5 trillion tax cut".
B0's policies are stealing my retirement, 1% on savings and 4% inflation is costing me 3% a year. I'd vote for Bo the dog before I would vote for B0. Just say "NO to B0".
Always laugh at how this debate was Romney's shining moment. He was not horrible in a flip flop liberal way he did it. But hey Republicans loved liberal Romney and his 5 trillion in freebies so applaud for their victory!
Meanwhile AMERICA can celebrate it's victory of increase in jobs under a very good President Obama
Dal,
You mean the $5 trillion in debt Obama has racked up over the last four years? You can try to spin Mitt's $5 trillion tax reduction proposa anyway you want. One thing we do KNOW is that Obama has racked up $ 5 trillion in debt in less than four years. And if your idea of 7.8% unemployment rate is something to celebrate, then I guess you must settle for a poor economy.
You must be afraid of change. Otherwise you'd be voting against our current POTUS...the dude has demonstrated that he is in WAY over his head.
Well Mr. President - then wake up and stop looking so damned annoyed that you had to be there on your Anniversary. Yes, that is an inconvenience but your the PRESIDENT and these debates are important for you to keep your job. Mr Mittens Romney is too close for you to be having an off night. Snap out of it!
LA fund raiser. $5 gasoline? Don't lose your enthusiasm. Hordes of illiterate, poverty stricken illegal aliens? Don't lose your enthusiasm. 16 + trillion national debt? Don't lose your enthusiasm. Dead ambassador and Middle East burning? Don't lose your enthusiasm. Ayathollahs with nukes? Don't lose your enthusiasm. 7.8% unemployment celebration? Don't lose your enthusiasm. QE 1, 2 and 3 and the dollar is worth about as much as a sheet of toilet paper? Don't lose your enthusiasm. Heating oil at $4.50 a gallon? Don't lose your enthusiasm. Strangled coal industry and sky rocketing electric rates? Don't lose your enthusiasm. No pipeline, no fracking no drilling in Anwar or Fed lands and no new drilling permits for the Gulf of Mexico? Don't lose your enthusiasm. 1 million plus abortions per year? Don't lose your enthusiasm. The streets flooded with Big Pharma's poison pills? Don't lose your enthusiasm. 4 more years of the Kenyan Kalamity and the U.S. will be well on its way to becoming Loonytunia, the biggest 3rd world chithole on the planet. One and done.
I told this story last week, but it bears repeating here: I was looking on the Washington Secretary of State's website, to find out when my ballot would be showing up in my mailbox ( that's how we do all our voting in the Evergreen State), and discovered that I wasn't listed as a registered voter- despite the fact that I got my ballot right on schedule for the primary.
So off I went, to the Kitsap County Registrar's office, bearing every goldang piece of verification I could lay my paws on; the very nice lady behind the desk showed me on her screen a shot of my original voter registration, and sure enough, it did look like I'd screwed up my date of birth (!), so with that straightened out... the moral of the story is that you can be bumped off the rolls for any number of reasons- even sloppy penmanship!
We can take as guaranteed that the Forces of Darkness are going to rev up the Republican Skullduggery Machine to unheard-of levels; besides what they're brazenly doing right out in front of God and everybody, there's bound to be tons more that we won't see, or even suspect. The Republican Party of today, is worse than corrupt; they are completely, utterly amoral , and they will flinch away from no crime, no offence against the principles of our Founding Fathers, no blow to democracy. They are hell- bent on making our great republic into a religiously repressive plutocracy, and they're well on their way to acheiving that goal. Be vigilant!
So you are ok with selling Weapons to Drug Cartels and giving Amnesty to Illegal Aliens, Ignoring Laws and the Constitution as long as it is be done by this Administration?
Fox.....The democrats are firmly in control in Washington state. You screwed up and they are doing your job to challenge the ballot.
...and can I assume that you're OK with lying us into two wars, nuking the economy, and destroying America's standing and credibility with our allies, as long as it's done by Republicans?
Fast and Furious was begun under Bush, and you bloody well know it. Amnesty for illegals is following the lead of the false god of the right wing, Ronald Reagan. As for ignoring laws and the Constitution, the Cheney regime set a new standard for lawlessness by an American administration. The punchline? Dick Cheney started a war to get control of Iraq's oil, and didn't get it- Russia, China and even Angola, for God's sake, got a bigger piece of that action than the U.S. did.
The Republican Party has driven the United States headlong into second- tier power status, and none of you chest-beating, flag-waving, slogsn- shouting obedient drones seem to care. You should be aware of what happens to a state that has a huge military establishment, but no economic power to sustain it; do the initials USSR mean anything to you? Probably not- so just crack another PBR and keep on living in your fool's paradise. I'll be busy busting my hump to leave "a more perfect union" for YOUR grandchildren to grow up in. You're welcome.
Nuking the economy? Just how did Bush or the republicans do that? Destroying America's standing....democrats had a huge part in that. Please don't be so blindly partisan and have an open mind and look at all the facts.
PUTAMERICA FIRST - Who Nuked Our Economy
How did Bush and the Repubs help nuke our economy: By going along with the Housing/Mortgage Scandal, that's how. Both the Repubs and the Dems were along for that ride. So let me give you a nice big slice of your own advice there PutAmerica, "...Don't be so blindly partisan and have an open mind and look at all the facts." In your case accept that both sides are corrupt and that both parties ditched us in a recession that now looks more like it is going to be a depression.
For 10 years, the Every American In a Home project was the final nail in our financial coffin. And with Nixon taking us off the gold standard in 1971, our dollar amounts to almost NOTHING. Meaning its free-falling into oblivion. And the Feds just keep printing more worthless paper money with nothing to back it up. Huh, we're all living the DREAM:-0 Bush gave the first bailout and yes Obama gave the second bailout.
It's one thing to blame the Democrats for our demise, but you're a complete liar if you don't administer the same amount of blame to the Republicans. They were just as involved getting their palms greased by kick backs from the wall street firms and big banks. No political party is blameless in this financial nightmare we are living in right now. So PutAmerica - how about some honesty in the blame game.
With the Media filter turned off and the Romney critiquing silent at the Debate he looks like our next President, Obama not so much, When you have no record to run on and no one to blame for the last four years but yourself, I would probably stand there and hold my head down also?
Robme's debate tactic is called the Gish Gallop. Google it. You will see it was exactly what he did. Spew lies , distortions and pseudo " facts" non-stop, barely pausing to take a breath. The tactic is usually employed by liars, charlatans or others of disrepute, who attempt to hide behind the appearance of knowledge of facts. It appears robme/ryan suffer from the disease of oral dysentary.
Victor- I agree have you seen the voter ad for Obama with Samual L Jackson that says " Wake the F**K Up! It's great!
O&JOE
I would never vote for a muslim obama bow too your king you piece of @!$%#.
I'd rather vote for a Muslim Obama (he isn't Muslim, but that doesn't matter) than a Willard of any faith (he happens to be Mormon, but that does not matter, either).
that's what Chavez and the Communist party says, RED CLOUD .....
ROMNEY/RYAN 2012!
OBUMMER sucks worse. At least Romney can give his wages back to the people as he does NOT need it, like he did in MA. Not saying he will but he can afford to.
NOBAMA 2012 We need a Leader not an Organizer.
ROMNEY FTW!!!!
SIPRI-Yearbook 2012 – World's top 15 military spenders:
The US percentage of military spending in the world is 41%.
1. Russia and China COMBINED is,China 8.2 % and Russia 4.1%=12.3%.
2. Percentage of GDP spent on the military=US 4.7,China 2.0,Russia 3.9.
And the majority of the rest of the world's military spending is by allies of the US.
The Republican Bush years brought us to financial collapse,and now another Republican wants to BOOST military spending even more.They appeal to the basis no-nothing elements of our country.Trying to use those peoples ignorance to gain power. Like Santorum said of his own Republican Party "we will never be the party of the smart people". They are running a slick,snake oil salesman,this time.Don't let the appealing image they are showing on the outside surface,hide the evil below the surface. Say NO to another war.This time a Romney war,instead of a Bush war.
Now's the time for the smart people to vote Nov. 6th.
Don't let the Republican's tricks and lies work for them again. Don't let them destroy Americas future.
Obama/Biden 2012, if you love America.
Chuck Norris - "Truthfully, I believe that Mitt has the skills and organization to defeat Obama and stop his fundamental transformation of America. We all know what four more years of increased socialistic decisions would do to our country."
I don't, please explain!
Chuck Norris — as in Walker, Texas Ranger? He should stick with that.
Like Clooney he should stick to the movies also.
NOBAMA 2012
That's right. USA should stay the same. Arrogant and broken.
I totally agree with Chuck. Wake up you people! It does not matter about the debate. Face the facts, Obama has changed our constitution, taken away our rights, is cutting our defense, and destroying our American ways and dollar. He is destroying our country from within. Cutting our defense is opening us up to the countries that hate us. You are in this country also. Do you want to be destroyed and be totally overtaken by the government, and be told even what doctor to go to, and what procedures you can have? Do you want our children to be taught immoral things in school? This country was founded under God by our forefathers. Our children are being forced to learn things against Gods word. Do you want your liberties taken away? It is evident that the another 4 years like the last will do that. This country as we know it will be ended. We are headed for total destruction under the same leader for another four years. You need to quit being racist and look at the facts.
BS, BS and more BS.
Mr. Obama has NOT changed our constitution.
Mr. Obama has NOT taken away anyone's "rights".
Mr. Obama is not "destroying our American ways". In fact, he has saved them.
Mr. Obama is NOT destroying our country from within. In fact, he has promoted our Great Nation around the world, he has stopped other countries from causing us severe financial and economic harm, and has gutted the terrorist organization dedicated to destroying the USA.
Mr. Obama is NOT forcing anyone to go to certain doctors. INSURANCE COMPANIES DO THAT.
He IS forcing layabout scumbags to PAY THEIR WAY. He IS forcing greedy corporations to stop throwing people away like garbage when they become medical liabilities, after paying tens of thousands of dollars in medical insurance.
It is, in fact, people like yourself who are destroying our country from within, by promoting racism, hatred, ignorance and intolerance. You and people like you are the reason why Mitt The @!$%# Romney must NEVER become POTUS. He MUST be defeated, so that decent, hardworking, honest americans have a chance to prosper, and so that filthy racist white supremist viewpoints die the death that they so richly deserve.
If you don't believe How horrible Mitt The @!$%# as POTUS would be, go ask the people of Marion Indiana what Mitt The @!$%# did to them. Go ask the 16,000 Kaybee Toys employees with their financial lives ruined by Mitt The @!$%# just how good a president he would be.
Go ask women if their civil rights would be protected under Mitt The @!$%#.
Go ask Hispanics if they think Mitt The @!$%# would make a good president.
Or the gays.
Or the Blacks.
Not another 4 years of Obama?
What we REALLY cannot afford is our Great Nation torn apart and sold to the highest bidders by Mitt The @!$%# and his intolerant racist scumbag financial backers...
Anyone but Romney, 2012
Blacks just dont get it planed parenthood was founded buy a racist to kill black babys
"I would never vote for a muslim obama bow too your king you piece of @!$%#."
"Blacks just dont get it planed parenthood was founded buy a racist to kill black babys"
Two posts from this thread alone that show what the Republican Party has descended to.
That's why Americans need to vote for President Obama and the Democratic Party. We can't have people that think like that in power.We had their kind of people during the horrible Bush years and they almost destroyed our country.
Obama/Biden 2012.
"Main Street has already proved an important battleground in the presidential election. So which candidate is winning the favor of small business owners?
Mitt Romney, and it’s not even close, according to a new poll.
Sixty-one percent of small business owners plan to vote for the Republican challenger, more than double the 26 percent who say they will vote for President Obama, shows a survey released Tuesday by Manta. The president’s numbers have fallen six points since May, while Mitt Romney has picked up four points with business owners. In the latest national polls, the candidates are virtually deadlocked."
Mitt Romney also has a huge lead with the middle class as well, but Obama has a huge lead with the poor....particularly those out of work.
I'm a small business owner and Obama supporter. And I'm not poor or out of work, either.