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Subscribe to RSSGOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney and President Barack Obama square off in the first presidential debate.
Updated at 10:55 p.m. ET
Social Security
Tonight, President Barack Obama made a claim about Social Security.
OBAMA: Social Security is structurally sound, it's gonna have to be tweaked the way it was by Ronald Reagan and Speaker, Democratic Speaker Tip O'Neill. But it is, the basic structure is sound.
NBC's Andrea Mitchell does a bit of fact checking after President Barack Obama and GOP nominee Mitt Romney faced off in the first 2012 presidential debate.
President Obama said that, unlike Medicare, Social Security does not need to be fundamentally fixed to remain solvent.
But according to the Congressional Budget Office, Social Security will run into financial trouble, too -- about 20 years from now.
By the year 2030, the amount Social Security pays out will exceed the tax revenue coming in -- so in about 20 years the program will NOT be able to pay for itself through the payroll taxes Americans currently pay.
Medicare
Mitt Romney claimed President Obama's health care law would take $716 billion out of Medicare.
ROMNEY: What I support is no change for current retirees and near-retirees to Medicare. And the president supports taking $716 billion out of that program.
In fact, that $716 billion comes from trimming planned future increases over the next decade, not cutting funding. And those trims come from limiting payments to health-care providers and insurers -- NOT limiting care to seniors.
And Medicare's chief actuary says Obama's health reform "substantially improves" the program's finances.
Romney's claim that his plan would not change anything for seniors and near retirees is true. His changes would not affect anyone currently over the age of 55.
What would happen for younger Americans under Romney's plan?
Has essentially endorsed the latest version of the Ryan budget plan, which substantially transforms Medicare by giving future seniors a payment -- Democrats call it a “voucher,” Republicans call it “premium support” -- to purchase health insurance. Under Ryan's plan, seniors would have the choice of buying private insurance or through Medicare’s traditional fee-for-service model.
The deficit
Tonight, President Barack Obama said his plan would cut the deficit by $4 trillion.
President Obama and GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney debate how to approach reducing the national deficit.
OBAMA: Now, we all know that we've got to do more. And so I've put forward a specific $4 trillion deficit-reduction plan. It's on a website. You can look at all the numbers, what cut we make and what revenue we raise.
That estimate comes from the left-leaning Center on Budget and Policy Priorities -- $3.8 trillion over 10 years.
The president is counting money saved by letting the Bush tax cuts expire for people making more than $250,000 a year.
But he's also counting on savings already agreed to last year when the White House and Congress agreed to raise the debt ceiling.
Taxes
At the outset of the debate, President Barack Obama and Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney tangled over taxes. Romney objected to the president's claim that his tax cuts would cost $5 trillion.
GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney steps out of turn to point out errors he feels President Barack Obama made in describing his tax plan.
ROMNEY: Let me repeat what I said, I'm not in favor of a $5 trillion tax cut. That's not my plan. My plan is not to put in place any tax cut that will add to the deficit.
What is Romney's plan?
He has proposed making the Bush tax cuts permanent for all income levels -- then cutting all rates by an additional 20 percent. He would also repeal the alternative minimum tax and permanently repeal the estate tax.
The non-partisan Tax Policy Center concluded that Romney's tax plan would cost $4.8 trillion over 10 years.
Romney said -- once again tonight -- that his plan would be paid for by closing loopholes in the tax code and by getting rid of some tax deductions and credits. But he has repeatedly declined to say which deductions he'd eliminate, saying he'd work with Congress to make those decisions.
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Poor Mittens. He has been told by so many different people what "his" tax plan is, he simply can't remember day to day what it is.
Too defensive tonight Mittens. Sorry, you lose.
Romney came off as bossy and obnoxious. He had no other card to play. His intention was to get all the attention and was allowed to get it.
President Obama is well respected in this country and is killing Mitt in electoral counts. Mitt was desperate. President Obama was presidential.
Glad to see President Obama didn't play on Mitt's level. I can't recall a more unlikeable candidate than Romney.
Obama is not well respected in this country or in most others! You're delusional.
Isn't that the truth, Pat? Mitt Romney is the only candidate that can possibly make Bush Jr. appear likeable.
John Kennedy did not build the Saturn V rocket or even envision it's creation..... as President, he created the VISION for the mission.......
Mitt has done the same for our country
Good bye Barry... have Michelle start packing the dishes
Interesting how Romney agreed with the President so many times...
Put your seat belts on. Here come the liberal left wing nut jobs spinning and twisting as best they can to try and force an "in" opinion that does not exist.
Bali Bob, that would because he doesn't have a platform or opinion of his own . . . Flip Flop!
Obama/Biden 2012
I'm going to make all of America have an Orgasm in the morning...
I can't tell you how...
Just trust me! It's cuuuuuummmmming!
Romneys rhetoric doesn't match his kill the middle class policies. Just call Mitt mister no specifics.
Romney still has a lot of work to do, don't get relaxed now.
"hungrymongoose
Put your seat belts on. Here come the liberal left wing nut jobs spinning and twisting as best they can to try force an "in" opinion that does not exist."
Here let me fix that for you
"Put your seat belts on. Here come the conservative religious teabag nut jobs spinning and twisting as best they can to try force an "in" opinion that does not exist."
There you go, all fixed!
Romney sounded fine but only because nothing he's campaigned on for 1 1/2 years would he own up to. He's going to cut taxes but he won't cut anything. Romneycare is great and he finally embraces it but Obamacare sucks because it isn't run by the states? Since after passing Romneycare he thought it would be great for the country. Now it's clearly wrong.
Obama hits a Grand Slam Home Run "Out of the Park".
Mitt Romney is now President's Obama's bitch.
God-Bless President Obama and Thank-you President Obama
for being our President, and Ruler, Master, and Overlord, for the next Four very long years.
Vote a straight Democratic ticket come this next November 2012, and let's send Mitt Romney and his Republican Masters,
"Back to the Political Dung Heap of History".
You Republicans and Teabaggers
aren't just LOSING the ELECTION
you've ALREADY LOST.
ouch!
All Hail Obama!
LOL! Bill Maher tweeting that maybe Obama does need a teleprompter!!!
Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan have a big economic plan:
Offer $5 trillion in tax cuts weighted towards the wealthiest Americans without adding a penny to the deficit. According to Romney, they'd pay for it by closing loopholes and deductions for the wealthy. The problem is that the math doesn't add up, especially because they've taken measures that benefit the wealthy, like the loophole for carried interest and preferential treatment for investment income, off the table.
Nonpartisan experts, including some of Romney's own outside economic advisers, have added it all up, and they say that in order to make the Romney-Ryan tax plan work, deductions that middle class families rely on -- like mortgage and child deductions -- will have to be cut, leading to a $2,000 tax increase for the average middle class family with children.
When Ryan was asked this weekend to explain how they'd actually pull this off, Ryan said, "I don't have the time. It would take me too long to go through all the math." But no amount of time would make that math work.
Romney: so many lies. How does he keep track? In a few days, the statement he made about getting rid of the pre-existing condition clause will be walked back by his campaign. How do I know? They've done it once already. That's not what the Governor actually meant, he meant to say, "blah."
I thought Jim Lehrer lost total control of this debate. I agree that Romney came across as obnoxious and overbearing. So many times Romney continued to opine despite Lehrer's wimpy attempts to stop him. In fact, Lehrer allowed Romney to take over a portion of the debate that was, in fact, the President's turn. I got generalities from Romney and no specifics. Unbiased, non-partisan investigators have confirmed that Romney's tax plan will cost $4.8 trillion over the next 10 years.
Think Progress:
When asked if government has a role in improving public education, Mitt Romney told the audience that the federal government can play a positive role. But earlier this year, in closed-door meetings with donors, Romney said that he would “either consolidate with another agency, or perhaps make it a heck of a lot smaller.”
Romney says he wants “good teachers” and touts Massachusetts’ stellar schools. But Romney has said he wants to slash public school teacher jobs, as budget cuts on the state and local level have forced schools to shed massive amounts of teachers. His surrogate, former governor John Sununu (R-NH) later confirmed that Romney wants “fewer teachers.
Romney suggested capping the amount of tax deductions that an individual can use at “$25,000″ or “$50,000,” saying “pick a number.” Yesterday, he suggested $17,000, a level at which his tax plan still doesn’t add up.
Romney says his plan deals with pre-existing conditions, but it would only keep insurers from taking away coverage, doing nothing for Americans with pre-existing conditions who are not able to get an insurance plan. As a result, 72 million people would be unable to obtain insurance, more than if Obamacare had never been passed.
Romney claims that Obamacare will lead to lower health care quality for Americans. But multiple studies and even top private insurance officials have confirmed that Obamacare’s incentives for preventive and coordinated care are already encouraging efficiency in the health care system.
Romney says he didn't raise taxes to pay for healthcare reform.
That’s because federal government subsidies paid for large portions of the plan.
Romney just unleashed a long attack about Obamacare. Here are the facts you should know about the legislation.
1. It creates jobs. Obamacare isn’t a job killer like Romney says it is. The Center for American Progress estimates that Obamacare will create around 4 million jobs across different sectors of the economy.
2. Seniors aren’t affected by Obama’s Medicare cuts -
Obamacare “cut Medicare reimbursements to hospitals and insurers, not benefits for older Americans.” Repealing the savings — as Romney wants to do — would hasten the insolvency of Medicare by eight years.
3. People have already seaved money as a result of Obamacare. 16 million seniors are receiving preventive benefits without deductibles or co-pays and are saving at least $3.9 billion on prescription drugs. Millions of young adults now have insurance coverage and are staying bon their parent’s health care plan.
4. Obamacare isn’t responsible for increasing health care costs
Health costs have been increasing before Obamacare became law and they will rise after it is fully implemented. But its cost control mechanisms will slow the rate of growth over time.
Despite his Massachusetts plan having been the basis for Obamacare and Romney’s praise for his own health care program, the former governor wants to repeal President Obama’s national health care reform plan. This would leave 72 million people without insurance under Romney’s plan.
Romney’s plan to repeal Obama care will actually increase the federal deficit by$109 billion over the 2013–2022 period” and lead 30 million of Americans to lose insurance. Unfortunately, under Romney’s plan 72 million would lose health coverage.
Romney has called Dodd-Frank "a killer" for small banks. In fact, "the bulk of the bill's new regulations apply only to a few dozen of the largest [bank], each holding more than $50 billion in assets."
##########
Romney's lies and arrogance is endless. For a guy who is losing and losing badly, this is what he does. Lie and bully his way for attention.
Just like always.
You must have pulled the "Obama says "uh" ticket at your drinking party. You are drunk and can't spell. LOL Love it.
Back to the story line here. President Obama correctly stated that the Romney/Ryan plan proposes cuts just under $5 trillion and Romney said that was not what he would do. He said this in spite of the fact that he can be shown repeatedly saying that they want a 20% cut which would result in $5 trillion.
He stood before approximately 55 million people and with a straight face and lied. He did not make a campaign promise that could not be met, he lied.
AHAHAHAHAHAAHAH! you libs are in such denial! say hello to prez romney!!!
bill maher even said he wasted a million dollars!!
Nothing Romney said made any sense. He spewed continuous lies. Romney talked a heck of a lot and said nothing.
Truth be told, Romney showed how inept Obama is. Obama stood there grunting and scowling. He even at one point asked the moderator to change the subject. Romney handed Obama his butt.
Now Ed Schultz is saying that Obama wasn't prepared. When one of Obama's super supporters is attacking him, it doens't look like Obama as good of a night as some of you on here think he did.
Is Romney for Simpson/Bowles or against it??? Flip Flop couldn't figure that out!
Wow, Romney is an incredible, barefaced liar who keeps doubling down on the same lies.
How come Romney got to finish the segments every time.
And talked overtime.
AND he got the last word?
Oh, and for all of you thinking Romeny was rude and cut off the President, turns out Obama spoke for 4.5 more minutes than Romney. Looks like a very good debate for Romney.
Romney... Substance-less and unspecific. Shocker.
Dear Mr. President,
I'm actually a pretty strong supporter of you. Substantively, you've got the ball in your court. Unfortunately, not everyone is as much of a nerd as I am, so they're unaware of this, and more willing to buy into the unspecific, already tried, fearmongering, crap-o-la, that the right is bringing.
So, it's with all respect, that I ask you, to please grow a set. Get aggressive, get mean, call him out, and @!$%#ing fight!
Thank you and happy anniversary!
obama, unprepared, for his job, or debate, both?
see, even communist ed knows obozo got his butt kicked!!!!
Man, you libbies are in denial. Romney swept the floor with Obama in tonight's debate.
He said he had his own plan, not looking backwrads. That IS an answer, how about Obama, what is his plan?
What Romney did, was what he does best = LIE, LIE, LIE.
Mitt knows the American people don't trust him. He is hiding what his real agenda is. More to the point the Rep. tea party Agenda. The Koch brother and friends agenda. We only have to look at Wi, Oh and MI to see what that agenda is. Now in Michigan and Ohio we have stood up to stop the new Governors and the Rep held Congresses from doing what they wanted to do. In Ohio they have already pulled the teeth from the Rep Governor and his Rep congress. Here In Mich we about to do the same thing. We are going to make sure the union busting Walker did will not happen here. We the people are going to do that. We know we can not trust the Reps to do it. We are also going to stop the Reps from building a bridge to Canada that they say will not cost us anything. Then they are going to hire foreign workers to build it and use foreign steel to build it, and we know who is going to pay for it. We will put a stop to it. We are going to take back out state and make the things be put to a vote. We no longer trust the people we elect to do what we the people want done. Reps have forgotten WE THE PEOPLE. We no longer have a Representative Government. Our government has been bought off by the rich.
STLMIke, this was a bad debate for Romney. He came across as a spoiled obnoxious punk. Who is losing. Badly.
In all the months Romney has been running, I have yet to see him appear dignified or tell the GD truth for once. Once a bully always a bully.
President Obama came across as thoughtful, intelligent, sincere. Romney quite the opposite.
Try actually watching Ed Schultz STLMike. He's about ten steps to the left of President Obama and criticizes him fairly regularly for not being liberal enough.
I think you leftists are missing, entirely, what happened here. Romney, we've been told, is a bumbling fool without any idea of what makes sense, and Obama, we've been told, is so sharp that to merely touch him can cut your hands. But at the debate tonight, like Obama or not, or Romney or not, that MSM narrative was shattered.
People who are persuadeable, or people who are undecided, saw a Mitt Romney that they've been told does not exist, and failed to see a President Obama they were told always existed.
Hi Wayne, could you pleaase identify ANY idea or policy concept Mr. Romney brought up which isn't understandable to you? Was it limited (by the constitution) government? Perhaps the idea that the tax code is a mess which discourages investment and hiring? Or could it be you are lost on the idea that the tax break for drilling or depletion is a TINY fraction of what Mr. Obama gives, or wants to give, to other firms doing something Mr. Obama prefers? What, exactly, got you lost?
Romney likes to brag about how he worked with Democrats in bipartisan efforts to bring about his healthcare legislation. He's lucky he had Democrats to work with.
If he were faced with the kind of ignorant obstinacy we have seen from the Republicans opposing Obama's plans he would be singing a different tune today. For Republicans bipartisanship means 'Do as we say, and we'll think about co-operating.'
Truth Squad? They will have to put in weeks of overtime on Obama. Every word out of his mouth tonight has been a misrepresentation, distortion, or outright lie. I don't think Obama is capable of telling the truth. Lying is pathological for this sociopath of a president.
Pat, I'm not sure what you were watching but when MSNBC's normal cheerleading group for Obama are saying that Romey was very strong, especially considering it seemed he dominated the debate while actually speaking for less time than the President, should tell you something about how well he did. I guess you missed Rachel Maddow now saying how strong of a debate Romney had.
Oh snap - consensus, on MSNBC no less - Mitt kicks ass.
What up NewDay?
BackHouse?
YOu did see what Billy Mahr said? Classic.
Mitt 53, O 47. Take it to the bank gang.
Sarah ...
You waffle in your posts but on this one. I agree! I so wanted the President to come out swinging ... and he did. Best quote of the night was one of the first ...
Obama/Biden 2012
Romney is not the man to support. He is a man who doesn't support us. All the bullying in the world won't change that fact one iota. He has admitted as much. Mitt behaves like Limbaugh and the rest of the GOP insiders. No damn good to us working Americans.
Come on America, get out there and support our president!
Can anybody explain what was wrong with the American flag romney wore on his suit jacket during the debate? It looked like it had a black mark in the middle of it? What does that refer to?
Tonight Romney unveiled his latest version...
Romney 10.0
The Democratic candidate.
He's for SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Teachers, the poor, the sick, NO Taxes, etc. etc.
WTF???
He will say anything.
Even Feisty can't spin this one:
Romney:1
Obama:0
As usual both Romnys appeared tonight.
I Didn't say what you heard me say for the last 18 months. I don't remember what I said about what I said, but I stand by whatever I said I said!!!!!
Layton, all he hit was air........but you libbies console yourselves by giving each other thumbs ups on your inaccurate left slanted posts......
Layton,
Unfortunately, I was late getting home and missed that one, and the part where Romney went after Jim L, for who goes first or second.
I also love, how everyone is saying this is some sort of sweeping victory for Romney. Let's keep it real, they both sucked.
Romney's arrogant, waffling on what his plans have been so far, and unspecific.
Obama's passive, and now dependent on his surrogates, to make his case for him.
Seriously, people. Keep it real.
SLTMike, I don't care what Rachel or Ed or anyone has to say. Mitt came off as a jerk. He offered nothing.
I'm not throwing the president to the wolves. I support him and I will suport him right up to election day. He has earned it.
Romney has earned nothing except Bully of the Year Award. Totally unlikeable. Can you imagine him on our television sets for the next 4 years lying through his teeth to us?
We've had enough of him and his entire republican incompetent party.
Toxic ...
Smirking asinine Ken Doll spewed his same sh*t. Nothing new. Talking points and pivots. He has no plan. He has no game. He is a fear mongerer and enjoys scaring the he!! out of those that listen to his sh*t.
Obama/Biden 2012
I do not know if the 20% cut the tax rates is doable, but Romney's plan of cutting the rates while eliminating all the loopholes and special interest deductions sounds goo to me. The tax code is riddled with these deductions that only benefit a certain small group of people, allowing them to pay less than everyone else. I am all for getting rid of these special interest give aways and leveling the playing field when it comes to paying taxes. Fewer deductions and an overall lower rate can easily work out to the same revenue coming in while making sure that everyone is paying what they should. If you are against this it probably means that you are benefiting from one of those special interest deductions or credits and are afraid of losing it and having to pay your fair share. I think that it is high time that we do away with the lions share of the deductions and credits that cause our tax code to be tens of thousands of pages long. It is also time to put an end to social engineering through tax policy. Why should two people living together who choose not to marry pay more in taxes than a married couple living together who have the exact same income.
All I have to say is just listen to what Rachel is saying in NBC. The heck with the rest of you blind people in this site. I'm waited to say anything until I would hear NBC and CBS to hear what they had to say.
This one was blown out the park by Romney. The left media is mad as hell.
Just one and 2 to go and maybe just maybe Obama will do better.
Nice dream RR, can you show your numbers instead of hyperbole it
Sarah, Obama is dependent on us? Who has Romney been dependent on? Lobbyists, Fox, AM Radio, most of Congress. The 1%.
I offer no apologies for supporting President Obama. None. Zero. He's been a good president and I feel he deserves our support and I am proud to support him.
Romney deserves nothing.
For any partisans, who are delusional enough to think that Obama won, read this from The Washington Examiner writer Joel Gehrke...even the Dems think Romney won:
http://washingtonexaminer.com/media-romney-won-the-debate/article/2509811
Well, I watched the entire debate very closely. I'm still not clear on what Romney's positions are, or how he is going to implement them. Romney will repeal "Obamacare," but then he's going to keep all the parts of Obamacare that he likes, so....how is that a repeal? That's like ordering a slice of pizza with pepperoni, peppers, double cheese and sausage, pulling off the peppers, eating the whole thing, and then declaring you don't like pizza or that what you just ate wasn't really pizza.
And that was just ONE of Mitt's responses. I don't know if he's for or against hiring teachers. I couldn't get a clear answer out of all the stuff he put out there. And now he's a champion of Medicare? Since when? That's been on the Republican hit list for removal since its inception. Nice to know Republicans now style themselves as the savior of Medicare. lol
Can't wait for the future debates....especially on foreign policy. JP-696969, you're the one who is delusional, if you think you can go to Australia or England or South Africa or Iceland or ANYWHERE in this world, and hear the people saying they like Mitt Romney more than Obama. DELUSIONAL.
Did Fisty pass out or did I miss a comment?
Layton, were you watching the presidential debate?.....you know the one held on cable networks? Why not wait until tomorrow when prominent leaders of YOUR party come out and admit Obama's performance was flat. Even Bill Mahr has opined that Obama lost the debate tonight.
Why not wait for Rasmussen (the only non left-slanted pollster) polling in the next week to show who won?
Sarah & Layton, please Romney didn't go after after the moderator. Both candidates were polite to each other and the moderator. But, don't let that stop you from making incorrect staements.
Mark Knoller tweet:
More on empathy: Poll shows 69% say Pres Obama cares about their needs and problems - up from 53% before debate.
Stephanie Cutter:
Romney won on style, lost on substance. Doubled down on same policies that have dogged his campaign -- $5T tax cut, Med vouchers, WS repeal.
Pat,
Are you really claiming, that Obama made the best possible case for his positions, that he could have? I'm with you, in my first post, I flat out said, substantively speaking, Obama has this on lock.
But if he doesn't fight, for those substantive positions. If he doesn't call Romney out for his ambiguities, he's not doing himself any favors. How is he going to communicate those positions, to the people who AREN'T on Newsvine all the time, and don't follow this as closely as some of us?
Am I changing my vote, no, obviously. But, I'm also willing to call a spade a spade. Obama could have gone after Romney with his guns swinging, and passionately defended his record. He didn't fully accomplish either.
He's my President. He's got my vote. But he's also human. I feel it's okay, to be honest in a critique of his performance. He should have laid the smack down. It would have been relatively easy.
In a couple days, after the fact checking is done, I think this will be seen in a different light, but Obama, could have skipped that waiting period.
Toxic,
So, I imagined that clip of Romney going back and forth with the moderator about who gets a turn when???
Sarah ...
So the great anticipated first debate went down. Romney smirked and the President could have expressed himself better. The bottom line is that this country is moving forward. Romney has nothing more to offer than his Bush advisers thoughts. President Obama has the middle class' best interest at heart. Tonight, Mitt said he did. Problem is, he doesn't connect with them and they do NOT connect with him.
Obama/Biden 2012
ToxicChemist ...
I watched it on PBS .. you know that little Public Information Channel that Mitt stated tonight that he wants to cut funds to??? But yep, Mitt keep funding Monsanto!
Obama/Biden 2012
I did finally agree with Romney on something though... I like Big Bird too.
P.S. HELL YEAH, CABRERRA!!!!
Hi Girl Number 20,
I too am eager to see the foreign policy debate. Mr. Obama's foreign policy is as much a disaster as his domestic policy, and, and I hope you can see my point here, it is because he's been treated so easily for so long by the media that he just doesn't know how to deal with someone who explains to him how he is wrong.
Your pizza analogy is pathetic. Sorry. I would support a complete repeal of everything regarding medical care at the federal level. But this doesn't mean there are a few laudable goals in Obamacare. It just happens to be constructed in such a way as to completely fail at its goals. What were those goals?
Universal coverage. Fail. No one thinks that we will ever get close to universal coverage under Obamacare.
Cost reductions? Epic fail. The cost just so far, and Obamacare is hardly yet enacted, is now well over twice the amount promised, and while Mr. Obama migh be able to claim that premiums are not going up as fast as before, this isn't because of the law making costs decline, it is because no one still yet knows how the law will play out, and so most insureres are playing it all very close to the vest.
You give me a single goal of Obamacare that will be achieved where the goal is a positive metric, not, as I might say, the loss of economic and personal liberty. Because the latter goal is most certainly being achieved.
Romney LOSES. Bully the debate and instead of talking about himself and his policies he just keeps saying Obama this and that. We still don't know where Romney stands. How can you even debate a man like this with NO PLAN. He is going to do this and going to do that without a plan. Romney is a BULLY
Romney... you know damm well you're not going to close those tax loopholes..how you think the 1 % got to be the 1%???
Only loopholes to close is between your ears!
OBAMA 2012
Why should ALL taxpayers fund the programming of your liberal crap? Pay for it yourself with your own personal donations.
BTW, I like Big Bird as well, but when he endorses a political ideology, I draw the line. Despite comming from PBS, I thought the moderator did a good job tonight.
Romney made Obama look impotent tonight! Obama clearly still does not have the answers. look for a big swing in the next polls
I hope you people have this on DVR. Every question the president asked went north and he drove south. He really did not answer any question directly.
Toxic,
Will do. And, since I'm sure you don't want to be hypocritical, you can pay for your wars, and unnecessary defense spending, through YOUR donations.
And the only thing Big Bird endorses, is singing the Alphabet. Conspiracy theories make you look paranoid.
It was a poorly done episode of one talking record and the other talking platitudes. I've read the "5 Point Plan" and the Ryan "The Path to Prosperity" and listened to both Mitt and Ryan talk about their "vision" for the future. And after tonight I still am yet to hear how they will do all of these glorious things. I've seen what President Obama has done in spite of the obstacles he has faced and think he has the best answers. So far the right has posited an idea but not a plan. I can't follow anyone if they aren't willing to tell us where they want to take us.
Wow, now I see why people call Mitt Romney a bully. He bullied that poor moderator until the man was cowering and completely lost control.
At least the President kept his cool and acted like a gentleman.
Asking Romney a question..is like asking a five year old a question..No plain answer..just goo-goo!
Mitt, YOU LIE, Mitt!
Liar Liar, Mitt on fire.
Well, many of us probably did want Obama to call out Romney for his continued preaching of his lies. I personally expressed many very hard hitting responses to the television. However, if there was one thing this debate did in Obama's favor, it was piss off his supporters against Romney even more. I believe many of us sat here in the audience taking a personal attack from Romney. I think in the long run this actually gets more of Obama's base to the polls.
On the other hand, Romney actually may have distanced himself a bit from the far right of the Republican party. Romney weasled himself away from much of his campaign rhetoric. I'm sure they relished his continual attacks, but all he did was continue to double down on the lies. The trouble will be that the fact checkers will have a field day, only it changes nothing for Romney supporters. The question is how do the handful of people who aren't already committed see it? That's hard to say because it is hard to imagine that anyone should still be in doubt about what side they fall on.
There is little doubt that as a prize fight, most will say Romney won this hands down. But it ain't over yet and everybody isn't voting tomorrow. One thing about this President is he is often far smarter than we give him credit for. Sometimes he baits his opponents to let them get confident only to come in for the kill later. There is no doubt in my mind that his campaign will jump on Romney's lies tonight and we will be hearing it time and time again over the next coming weeks. Maybe we are missing the point in that Romney just ends up getting proven to have absolutely no substance to any of his plans. We wanted to see Romney takes some hits tonight and Obama avoided even throwing a punch. Clearly by design. There is little doubt that Obama was ticked by he remained restrained and stuck with the facts while Romney just promised us that he'll make pigs fly, but he can't tell us how. Obama simply says, we all know pigs can't fly, enough said.
I won't be surprised if Romney sees a slight bump in the polls, but all he is doing is continuing to use smoke and mirrors and outright lies, over and over again. Romney somehow thinks he'll get Deomcrats to work with him, "because he'll sit down and talk with them". What an idiot. He got Democrats to work with him in Massachusetts because the Democrats had command. All he did was pass Democratic policies! What a fool.
While I give Romney points on style and delivery the facts prove that he lied about his plans. The NBC fact check and other Fact checks say the same thing. He has no way to fund these deficit cutting talk of his. The military hasn't asked for the $2,000,000,000,000 increase int heir budgets either. Good God, do that and they will want to start another war to spend it.
I would give Obama a C and Romney a B in the debate and I support Obama! Barack will have to get his act together in debate #2.
Sarah, no doubt President Obama could have done better. No doubt whatsoever. But it's not the end of the world. I know Democrats and how they freak out.
Romney is a horrible person with horrible positions. He is going to screw us all and I don't think just because President Obama had a bad night that everyone should beat up on him. He's been working his @ss off this year and I would very much hope that everybody who supports him, still supports him.
Especially now.
He is still the same man and a damn good president who had an off night. Romney offered us nothing but his usual lies and arrogant smirks. And as usual, demanding to get attention.
Moderation was horrific but at no point did the president bully him. Romney showed nothing but disrespect. Like he always does.
I noticed many flip flops from policies that Mitt has proposed during the past 18 months of campaigning tonight as well!
A mistake I think Obama made was not calling Romney on the 716 billion comments and mentioning that even though Romney claims by repealing Obamacare he'd put the 716 billion back he doesn't mention his plan will add those negotiated cuts back in.
Yes, Romney did a great job!.... lying. But we know he's a master at the art of lying so there's no big surprise here. Romney now has to figure out how to orchestrate his latest flip-flopping and make ANY sense whatsoever.
Not a single detail on any one of his plans. Still, he's too arrogant to show us his own taxes. He just says "trust me" I'll do the right thing. In the information age is it even possible to win by constantly lying to people and telling them what they want to hear?
Does America really want a Panderer in Chief?
Vote Democrat!
Larry, Pat & Vterry,
The only part I found myself yelling at the TV at, was when Obama didn't say anything about what deductions Romney would cut!
HOW could he not bring that up! To quote the illustrious Homer Simpson... DOH!
Someone said Romney was lying with a straight face. Not hardly. As we was saying something, he was shaking his head "no". If he were playing poker tonight he would have lost everything he had because his facial expressions and body language gave him away.
I thought Romney demonstrated his etch-a-sketch side. Nearly everything he said tonight he wouldn't have said during the GOP primaries. How do you debate someone who is claiming different positions than throughout the past year?
But that said, Obama wasn't on his A game and could have put the screws to Romney had he chose to. The entire debate was rather dull from both sides.
Thank you Mr President, it was most presidential of you not to unmask Gov Romney in front of his family and the world.
Romney is a decent man who built his empire, although with flawed principles and tax loopholes. But he deserves the beautiful and loving family he has.
The Republican Party has been commandeered by the Tea Party scum who reluctantly agreed to nominate Romney after they saw their own candidates flailing like clowns. He has been compelled to lend his face to the evil Kochs and embrace their nasty platform. It is evident Mitt is battling his demons. This is nothing but a battle between good and an evil we the people don't need.
Thank you also Pat Boston #1.18 for having eloquently and effectively shortened my post.
I think this debate was good for everyone and both parties to see the candidates close up.
Independents get to see them close up also....
My comments are simple... good robust debates and "civil' discourse ARE what makes AMERICA tick.
Tonight's debate was a good first round ... Romney clearly shined and Obama seemed to tread water.
That is just my opinion and is not any endorsement of any candidate. I have bigger fish to fry like the Federal SHAM Reserve and Fiat Currency for the rich.
Truth Squad: As covered by NBC - National Barack Channel
I think the only thing that changed tonight is that a few more people recognized the different levels of experience represented by each candidate.
Still not sure what to do with my post? Here, I'll make it easy for you:
ROMNEY/RYAN 2012!!!!!!! :) Happy? Good.
Rommel and EddiMunster are lying to your Faces; Ignore their Lies and here is a link to help in seeing through these two politicos who will hurt America Terribly; Worse then what's already been done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og35U0d6WKY&feature=player_detailpage
Please tell me you aren't claiming that Romney has more experience at being the POTUS, then the POTUS has experience being the POTUS.
Please.
The fact is that Obama did not want to defend his record. His record was so bad he wants people to forget it so why defend his poor job as president.
I think in skill of presentation Romney came out ahead.But that's because the President let him get away with lie's,and didn't come out swinging. My problem with Obama has always been,that as the first African-American President he has felt he needed to Govern from the Center and persuade the other side to the rightness of his policies.That doesn't work well when dealing with people willing to harm the country rather than work with you. There is no question that Obama was telling the truth in the debate and Romney was lying and evading.But only people that have studied the facts can see that.Romney came across strong in the debate.So we have to make sure everyone supporting the President votes,to make sure that the right man wins.President Obama is by far the most intelligent,caring man in this race.We need to make sure that a "good salesman" isn't enough to able to win.
Get out and vote,Obama/Biden 2012.
Sarah,
I agree that Obama did not use this opportunity to call Romney out but at the same time there have been people from the Republican party that have asked for details and he has not answered them either. Sometimes it's best to not ask a question that you know will not be answered and stick to the information you want to put forward.
Republicans should not jump for victory yet.
Though Romney was more energetic, he abandoned many of his previous principles.
Hence, he lied some more.
Liars do not win in Presidential debates.
Obama was careful and let Romney burry him with as much BS as he could handle.
You will see that tomorrow.
Obama held back for a reason.
... Romney clearly shined and Obama seemed to tread water.
If Romney shined, its only because he pandered so far to the middle, I thought two Dems were debating.
Looks like Mitten's has told the "Tea-bagger's" to go kiss his ass, because what he said at the debate, sure as hell isn't what he's been preaching for the last year.... Is Mitten's Flipping, Flopping, or just fibbing? "Only the shadow knows"......
-
O&Joe 2012
Willard Mitt Romney has demonstrated that he is, to the very marrow, a dishonest man. Those of us who are unschooled in deceit, who are essentially honest, cannot understand or even imagine that someone could lie so blatantly and so easily. This most definitely works to Romney's advantage, at least in the moment.
Romney must have studied the "Racehorse" Haynes line of defense:
President Obama handled himself with his customary dignity and restraint. He is a true gentleman, but he might need to take the gloves off for the next debate.
VW,
I just feel like that's the meat and potatoes of the whole case against Romney. Well that, and his uber-crazy stance on social issues.
Once again, I go to Homer Simpson... "Meat and potatoes....(drool)."
Romney appeared to be channeling Chris Chrisitie...minus the name calling.
IMO, Christie coached him.
He behaved like an insufferable bully who has so little respect for the people he is addressing that
he has no qualms about lying blatantly about most everything, because he believes that all the voters are dumb enough to fall for it....
Pathetic.
So. Are the pundits spending any time on Romney's lies or is it okay with them (yet again) to vote for someone who lies simply because he was more aggressive? Male pundits especially love that kind of a show. No substance. All theatre.
People across the board said the moderation was horrid. Yet the moderator was told he did a good job.
By who?
President Obama.
@ pat boston
they playing the debate again on CNN, you really should watch it for the FIRST time if you think obama was so articulate and great
What else can we expect other than the liberals saying Obama won... That's like saying the sun will come up tomorrow. I actually think the liberals expected the 08 Obama to show up... That Obama is long gone.
Obviously they didn't watch the same debate I watched. Romney's body language was excellent... Romney kept on looking at Obama when he was giving his answers and Obama was looking down or looking to the moderator for a help me moment.
Romney's answers were well presented. He didn't waiver and he didn't change his point. Obama stammered, studdered on several occasions and he even rambled and didn't make sense about off-shoring jobs. Romney had about 15 good stingers and Obama only made one.
I loved it when Romney said that he is entitled to his family and his possessions but not entitled to his own facts. It was a good b!tchslap.
One thing I've never seen in a presidential debate was when Obama asked the moderator, can we change the subject. What a pathetic thing to do.
We all knew, Obama had no ability to defend his record and clearly he didn't.
I don't know what debate the liberals were watching, but Romney ruled over Obama.
One big Obama supporter Bill Maher said that Maybe Obama really does need his teleprompter... Goes to show you that even a huge liberal saw through Obama's weakness... Obama needs someone else to think for him.
michigan northener, take a look around the internets. Romney is being fact checked all over the place and nothing he said tonite was true. Doesn't it bother you that people are willing to vote for a proven liar?
I should watch it for the FIRST time?
Do me a favor, watch it over and over and over and jot down all of Romney's out and out lies. And then tell us how you plan to vote for a proven liar.
What is wrong with you people? Republicans are incompetent. Republicans are bullies. Republicans are liars.
Pat in Boston, There was plenty of substance... I think you might have missed it when you used your forefingers to plug your ears everytime Romney spoke. You have to realize when you plug your ears and go yayayayayayaya out loud, you are going to miss a whole portion of the debate.
Fact check will be out tomorrow... gonna see who did more lying. I caught about 15 lies from Obama. What's really impressive was when Romney caught them too and called Obama out on them... Loved the surrender when Obama asked the moderator to change the subject... Weak, very weak!
Out right lies do not constitute a win because they sound good to the suckers. Carnival on Romney victims...
Well, isn't this just unbelievable?
DailyKos/TPM:
After the first presidential debate at the University of Denver in Colorado on Wednesday night, one of Mitt Romney’s top advisers acknowledged that, as a result Romney’s plan to repeal Obamacare, people with pre-existing medical conditions would likely be unable to purchase insurance.
###########
Romney won nothing this evening.
Girl 20.....The reason the rest of the world likes Obama so much is because they can intimidate him and he won't do a thing about it (our Forefathers would have already been shooting by now......that's how we got here in the first place...we stood up to England's intimidation) ....gives them something to laugh about....at least Mitt does have a big pair. Can't wait to hear the debate on foreign policy.....maybe Obozo will finally have to decide whether Iran is really an enemy or not.........guess Mitt will have to Bully them around a little and see how they like it..............Keep Going Mitt, you're headed in the Right direction!
Pat Boston MA.
SLTMike, I don't care what Rachel or Ed or anyone has to say. Mitt came off as a jerk. He offered nothing.
I'm not throwing the president to the wolves. I support him and I will suport him right up to election day. He has earned it.
Romney has earned nothing except Bully of the Year Award. Totally unlikeable. Can you imagine him on our television sets for the next 4 years lying through his teeth to us?
We've had enough of him and his entire republican incompetent party.
Thank you Pat,
I think the president showed his bi-partisan side tonight. MYTH showed his multi-faces. I don't care what the MSNBC pundits say either. I trust our President judgement.
What else does Romney have to do but lie and Bully? REV AL said it best:
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/msnbc/49281953/#49281953
==================================================
Romney is his own problem. He clearly MYTH's problem was in 1812 not 2012. He talked about the 10th amendment all night long. MYTH was patently contradictory.
Sureee , MYTH needed a game changer; but mark my words, in the end when the news cycle is over and the facts come out it will be Game over for Romney.
4 more 4 44
Obama/Biden 2012
Romney loosed the debate when he lied !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, this is priceless. At the conclusion of the debate, I turned on the most liberal media outlet I know of, NPR, and their panel agreed unanimously that Romney won....they even mentioned that Bill Maher ($1 million campaign contribution) quipped that maybe Obama does need a teleprompter. So, now I log on to Newsvine and find all of the usual lib blowhards in absolute denial....yep, priceless!
Beverly, the president won this evening. You want to know why?
It wasn't our president on that stage this evening who lied to the American people. It was Mitt Romney on that stage this evening who lied to the American people.
See you tomorrow Bev.
Romney lied through his teeth in the debate, lets see if the truth squad picks up on it, what a lying phony Romney is !!!!!!!!!!!!
Backhouse #1.26 -
Did you watch the debate that everyone ELSE is talking about - or something at your local highschool? Did you LIiisssttteeeNNN?
OBAMA is the one who kept going over, and the moderator would attempt to cut him off. He spoke at least 4 minutes longer than Romney.
And a debate is kinda like a tennis match - you switch topics like switching sides of the court and the other person then serves first.
Lastly, if you were paying attention, Romney CLOSED the debate cuz they did a coin toss to decide that and Romney won the toss and chose to let Obama close first - like a football team getting the toss and choosing to let the opposing team kick off first.
Next time forget the particulars and just pay attention to what the candidates are saying - you'll get alot more out of it.
why don't you just say it doesn't matter what was said I'm a liberal and i will lie/distort/and call you derogatory names to the end if you don't support my views. i am not a conservative or even republican .
President Obama said that, unlike Medicare, Social Security does not need to be fundamentally fixed to remain solvent.
But according to the Congressional Budget Office, Social Security will run into financial trouble, too -- about 20 years from now.
I voted tonight.
I voted to report 8 posts above for advertising.
Could have been more like 80, but you know, having a life includes not spending too much time here on First Read where non-discussions are 90% of the posts.
Debate about policy is good. Will voters base their decision on policy? Probably not. I try to so for me it was a good debate.
You leftists are just hilarious. You are all over the place with your complaints.
Romney is a bully! Romney is like a child! Um, okay, so a child bully just owned your blisteringly smart president. Got it.
Romney has no plan! Romney's plans will destroy us all! Um, okay, so the plan he doesn't have, says you Einsteins, is so venal that we will all be destroyed by it. Got it.
You are ALL missing the point. For months the MSM has been explaining how brilliant Mr. Obama is, how he is so smart we dare not even question him. As an aside, it turns out there is another job Americans don't want to do that we have to let Mexicans do, and if you saw the Univision interview you know what I mean. And for these same many months we've been told that Mr. Romney simply can't connect, that he cares only about the 1% (just one of the many amazingly STUPID constructs of the left).
So, tonight, for the first time but not the last, Mr. Romney was able to speak without a MSM filter directly to Mr. Obama, and to you and me. It turns out Mr. Romney wasn't what we were told he would be. But, more importantly, it also turns out that Mr. Obama isn't nearly, by a long shot, what you all claimed him to be. Or even what the MSM portrayed him to be.
Undecided voters and those willing to be persuaded to change their minds saw what they were told didn't exist. This matters. I think Mr. Obama is an epic failure as president and he is nothing like the caring hard working person you leftists claim, but if he can't figure out how to better connect with voters than Mr. Romney did tonight, you should begin scraping off your faded Obama '08 bumper stickers.
I just know that the president for the first time did not have the media and all his handlers protecting him from any hard questions and in the end he looked terrible. He either needs to pick up his game or he will be unemployed himself shortly.
I would also suggest for you people that wish to propose facts can you please pull them from a reputable source and not a liberal leaning site or a conservative leaning site, you would sound more credible if you pulled them from a source that is non partisan. But then by what I witnessed tonight it looks like you were following your presidents lead so I should not be surprised.
Spanky,
Those rabid, racist are the ones who gave credence to those mythical poll numbers that that lyin POS, Romney won. When the facts come out the undecided I believe will see for themselves just how much of an insincere jerk MYTH is. As I stated earlier MYTH definitely needed to move the dial for a game change; but in the end when the truth comes out it will be game over for Romney!!
Spanky, MYTH is just like you he does not care about the 47%, he shakes it like a salt shaker, and he lies like a rug.
4 more 4 44
Obama/Biden 2012
"...Perhaps the closest the debate came to a moment of truth was when Romney observed, "High-income people are doing just fine in this economy. They'll do fine whether you're president or I am." Obama smiled in response.."
Obama and Romney: A "debate" without real differences
By Patrick Martin
4 October 2012
The first debate of the US presidential election campaign laid bare the unbridgeable gulf between the corporate-controlled political system and the concerns of the overwhelming majority of the American people.
The United States is in the grip of the worst social crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s, with record levels of long-term unemployment, record levels of hunger and homelessness, mass layoffs of workers in the public schools and other essential services, deteriorating public infrastructure and deepening poverty and social misery.
Aside from two sentences from Romney—in the course of proposing measures that would make the crisis even worse for working people—there was no reference to this social reality in 90 minutes of debate. The words "poverty" and "unemployment" never crossed Obama's lips. Neither candidate offered any proposals to alleviate mass suffering, put the unemployed to work or rebuild public services devastated by budget cuts.
On the contrary, more than four years into an economic crisis brought on by the greatest financial collapse of the profit system since the 1930s, both candidates pledged their loyalty to Wall Street and hailed capitalism as the greatest boon to mankind.
Obama declared in his two-minute summation, clearly prepared in advance, "The genius of America is the free enterprise system." Romney, himself the possessor of a huge personal fortune based on stripping the assets of companies and speculating in the financial markets, repeatedly argued that the "private sector" had to be given free rein in every sphere of life, from job-creation to education to health care.
Obama made only one timid reference to the role of Wall Street in wrecking the US and world economy. Even there, he equated the swindlers and the swindled, saying that the workers hoodwinked into taking out sub-prime mortgages and the bankers who pocketed huge bonuses by fleecing them were both guilty of "reckless behavior."
Obama also refrained from identifying Romney personally with Wall Street. In the course of the nationally televised event, he made no mention of Romney's role as a corporate raider at Bain Capital, Romney's refusal to release his tax returns, or his use of offshore investment accounts.
Most significantly, he made no reference to Romney's disparaging comments about the "47 percent" of Americans dependent on government programs and too poor to pay federal income taxes, and his assertion that no one in America should consider himself "entitled" to food, health care or a roof over his head.
Based on conventional electoral considerations, this silence would appear inexplicable. Obama campaign television commercials have hammered Romney on his "47 percent" remarks for two weeks, and Romney's poll numbers declined as a consequence.
It is clear, however, that in preparing for the first debate, with an estimated television audience of 60 million, the largest of the campaign, Obama and his political handlers viewed any hint of economic populism as too dangerous. It might offend the Wall Street power brokers and encourage a militant response from below.
The month of September has already seen two major strikes erupt in urban centers, with workers rebelling against cuts demanded by Democratic mayors with close ties to the Obama administration. In Chicago, 26,000 teachers walked out for a week, and in Detroit, water and sewage workers went on strike and initially defied a court injunction and their own union officials.
There were considerable efforts in the media before the debate to frame the contest between Romney and Obama as a titanic duel of deeply opposed philosophical standpoints. This carried over into the questions posed by the moderator, Jim Lehrer of the Public Broadcasting System, who began each segment of the debate by asking the candidates to outline their differences on a particular domestic issue: in other words, to focus on the 1 percent on which they disagreed, rather than the 99 percent they had in common.
It proved impossible to conceal the alignment of the two candidates, however. Viewers quickly lost count of how many times Obama or Romney voiced agreement with one another—on stimulating the private sector, on cutting taxes for corporations, on education "reforms" directed at privatizing schools and bashing teachers, on cost-cutting in health care, on promoting US energy companies.
Romney disavowed his best-publicized economic proposal—a $5 trillion tax cut largely targeted to the wealthy and corporations—in favor of a renewed emphasis on deficit reduction as the principal goal of a new Republican administration. Obama responded by reiterating his own plan to cut the deficit by $4 trillion, the bulk of that through domestic spending cuts.
As throughout the campaign, neither candidate would speak openly about the impact of their respective deficit reduction plans on the social programs on which tens of millions of working people depend. Both claimed to uphold Social Security, while accusing their opponent of seeking to devastate Medicare. The claims are lies, while the accusations—against both candidates—are true.
Perhaps the closest the debate came to a moment of truth was when Romney observed, "High-income people are doing just fine in this economy. They'll do fine whether you're president or I am." Obama smiled in response.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/oct2012/deba-o04.shtml
Beverly,
Your rhetoric is appalling, your name calling pathetic and your agenda horrid. I found the debate refreshing and very interesting.
Only your liberal fan club listens anymore to your name calling and bold text repetitive rants and vitriolic trolling manner....and it is getting smaller by the day.
The only MYTH here is that you still think President Obama won a debate that he did not....even to the point of asking to have the debate point changed
The TRUTH is that most credible sources state President Obama did not do well in this debate. I watched and I concur.
Denial is a bad bad road...
Good luck with your driven and very vitriolic agenda... Make sure and divide people more, get another time out on newsvine and all that good stuff....never mind robust debates and spirited civil discussions.
P.S. : I am registered independent and voted for Obama the first time. I will not be voting for him this time.
Hi Shosyn,
No judgements here, seriously. I'm very interested in the why of your post about having voted for Mr. Obama in 2008, but that you won't this time. I'm not suggesting you vote for Mr. Obama this year if, for no other reason, I think he's an abject failure. But I thought he was always empty, more show than go, and I thought in 2008 that the MSM did a great disservice to Mr. Obama, and to us all by extension, by not asking him to defend his public comments. Mr. Obama was able to remain vacuous because no one was demanding he develop any substance. And I think we saw that aspect of Mr. Obama play out tonight when Mr. Romney asked simple but concrete questions of him. Mr. Obama was lost.
So, my question...What did you see in Mr. Obama (besides him not being Mr. McCain--I was never a huge McCain fan but I thought he'd easily be better than Mr. Obama) that caused you to want him to be president in the first place? Again, no judgements. I'm just curious.
After reading many of the above comments, I can only think that many of the liberals posting here are to ignorant or full of themselves to read the above article! The article clearly states that the consensus is that Romney won! Even the fact checks showed that there really weren't any lies spoken by Romney, although he did not give enough information for them to make the call. However they did make the mistake of sticking to 4.8 trillion in cost for his tax cut plan, even though, historically lowering taxes actually increases revenues better than a tax increase! Obama got caught with his pants down and his teleprompter off. That is the bottom line for this debate. It will be interesting to see the ones to come.
I love how conservatives think that liberals all take their cues from guys like Bill Maher - old Bill flubs up half of his deliveries, maybe he needs a teleprompter - oh, that's right, he does use one...and still screws up. Maher hasn't been a liberal for 10 years. Just because conservatives get their talking points from idiots like Rush and BillO - doesn't mean liberals are that shallow.
Liberals follow people like Amy Goodman and Noam Chomsky - we get it that Bill Maher is all about sarcastic comedy, it's his job. Tell us one point where Maher defines himself as a liberal, even his Religulous movie sucked - he's not even a second rate Michael Moore.
Romney won the debate - based on jokes and a sharp wit....and that makes him electable? Give your fellow humans some credit - we are not as shallow as you want to believe.
PS; I don't vote for Presidents - only on local issues...the above comments show why I could care less about the Federal government...just look at the people and their actions - I'll pass on all the BS, thank you.
I'm starting to wonder why we even have these debates. The same people who voted for the guy with the D after his name in 2008, are gonna vote for him again in 2012. Most who claim to be a "swing voter" are closet Democrats.
Also, the same people who voted for the guy with the R after his name in 2008 are gonna vote for the guy with the R after his name this go around too. No surprises.
To Dems: Seriously, you people need to get off the kool aid. The Democratic National Committee could run Chairman Mao himself and you'd vote for the D, and still deny the guy is a communist.
To Republicans: Can you not see that the Republican Party has nominated a flaming liberal? I was seriously doubting he and Obama would be able to debate. All they would be able to do is agree with each other. I know you had your hopes up and they were dashed with this candidate, but the whole "anyone but Obama", isn't the key to the Utopia you seek.
The problem, is people who really believe that producers are obligated to financially care for the non productive. What happens is the non productive use Medicaid to pay for their babies, food stamps to feed them, and other forms of welfare to maintain their standard of living. All the while, you can't afford to breed because your too busy trying to maintain your own standard of living, while paying to maintain everyone else.
It doesn't take long until the non productive have bred so much that they are in the majority. And in the majority, you think they won't use the ballot to demand more and more from you?
1: EITC. I mean seriously, how the hell can you make 35k, get back more taxes than you paid in, and stand with a straight face and say it isn't welfare, and someone else should "pay their fair share"? If Mitt Romney only paid a 5% effective tax rate, it would be more than 90% of the people posting on this board.
2: Graduated tax brackets. Seriously, the guy making twice as much would already be paying twice as much in taxes with a flat tax. How can you ask them with a straight face to "pay their fair share", when you don't pay anything at all? Notice both candidates have dropped their support for a flat tax?
3: "But, but, but we pay this tax, and that tax." Who gives a @!$%# about what you pay? The conversation is about what you DON'T pay, which is federal income taxes.
4: Medicare. This is the biggest welfare program of all. "but but but I paid into it". Get real. Even the top earners don't pay enough into it to cover that one hospital bill from the heart attack, stroke, or nursing home stay your going to require at some point in your life. Once you've exhausted all you've paid in, is it welfare at that point? Notice again, both candidates pander to this group of people. Neither one of them will be honest and say people need to take personal responsibility for how to finance their own health care.
5: SSI checks. How in the hell do you get a disability check from a program, when you've never paid anything into it? Neither candidate has addressed this issue.
Two socialists standing on stage debating who can buy more votes with taxpayer funds, and you all cheer one way or the other?
Now of course you may be thinking," yeah, but what would society look like without all these programs"? Well, your all fixing to find out. As soon as the limit on that credit card maxes out, there is going to be a rude awakening. For all you on the Gov teat who can't seem to figure out how to fend for yourselves, you're going to get it the worst. I just hope for you all's sake you don't get militant when you're hungry.
As if this country doesn't spend enough on the military, let's spend a couple more trillion, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/06/defense-spending-fact-of-the-day_n_1746685.html
What i witnessed in the debate was this. Romney demonstrated he does have some spesific ideas and explained them as best you can in 2 minutes. Obama simply had the same campain promises he had in 2008. Nothing new.
Romney explained what he didn't like about Obama care and why. He explained what he disliked about the new wallstreet regulations and why. He explained how he will create an environment that spurs job growth.
Obama on the other hand said NOTHING new. same ole same ole. Which leads me to believe that we will see more of the same if he is re-elected. He has nothing new to add but ' give me another chance". His policies are not working. In fact they are having a negitive effect over all. He says he will reduce the deficit. He has done the opposite. He says he will help more education and lower tuitions. He has done the Opposite, My step daughter who attend Uof M was told there were no longer studnet loans for summer classes this year. Who will pay for the 100,000 new teachers ? He claims he will cut the deficit but then goes on to say he will spend the money saved from end the wars to re-build infrastructure and on other programs. If your still spending money you have to borrow how does that reduce the debt ? nothing new from the President at all.
I dare you to run your HOUSEHOLD budget, the way Mitt Romney wants to run the Government. Massively CUT your income, MASSIVELY INCREASE your spending. Debtors prison is awaiting.
All government "cuts" are reductions in increases. This is standard government math.
This statement asserts that by limiting payments to health care providers and insurers, you don't limit care to seniors. That's great - when I get a bill from my hospital for $500, I'll "limit my payment" to $250, and therefore my care won't be limited.
Romney won this one big time.
Rickeroo
Not even Romney is a dumb as you with his math.
Romney will be seen as the winner until the dust settles and Biden gets finished with the VP candidate.
I'm here to explain what would happen if Mitt, among other "loop holes" gets congress to end the deduction for home payment interest so the rich can have their tax savings. The American real estate market will all but disappear. Why would anyone buy a home that would create a sky high tax debt?
Even the left media is saying Obama was pathetic last night, yet the zombies here still praise him. Delusional, just delusional! Goes to show, you only hear what you WANT to hear
Romney blew the pants off Barry and Im sure Michelle made him sleep on the couch!
Debate 1 -- Romney catches Obama off guard. Obama will be advised for the next debate, Mitt better be ready!
The largest deductions utilized by individual taxpayers are the personal exemptions, State and local sales tax, and home mortgage interest. Keep in mind that, as AGI goes up, these items are limited, and eventually phased out. That is without considering the effect of Alternative Minimu Tax. So, in effect, wealthy taxpayers receive no benefit from personal exemptions, home mortgage interest, and State and local taxes.
In order to remain revenue neutral at the 34% tax rate, Romney's plan would require eliminating $3 of exemptions/deductions for every $1 decrease in tax. It gets even worse as the rates drop, at the 25% bracket it is elimination of $4 of deductions for every $1 of tax decrease, and at the 20% rate it is $5 of deductions for every $1 of tax decrease.
So just eliminating deductions will not make Romney's tax plan revenue neutral.
He must also cut tax credits. Every $1 of cuts to tax credits will equal $1 in cuts to taxes.
The most commonly used tax credits by American taxpayers are the child tax credit, and educational credits, part of the Bush tax cuts. So Romney is saying that he would keep those credits, then work with Congress to cut those credits in order to keep his tax proposal revenue neutral.
Unfortunately, like exemptions and deductions, credits are also limited, then eliminated, as AGI increases, so the wealthy receive little to no benefit from them. That, too, is without considering the effects of the Alternative Minimum Tax.
The elimination of Alternative Minimum Tax and the Estate Tax is a large revenue game changer.
In short, for Romney's tax plan to remain revenue neutral, and drop the tax rates for individual small businessman, he MUST eliminate that part of the Bush tax cuts that apply to working class America, otherwise, his numbers do not add up.
Mitt is spinning at pants-on-fire levels.
I believe the President is a little smarter than the rest of us. He knew he would not convince people that have looked at Romney's record of flip flops and still support him. They are hopeless. They have another agenda that only a Romney type will sign. Those on the left are going to vote for President Obama even if he is not a rabid attack dog, because they believe in his and the Democrats platform. The President was trying to reach that 3 to 5% in the middle. Those are the ones that will move the polls. I believe he made his point that Romney's numbers will not add up, even if he would share his plans. He wants to lower tax rates by 20%, but will collect the same amount of revenue. What's the point? Mitt can't explain how or why. I guess we will have to see what that 3 to 5 percent have to say.
LMFAO!!
Even ultra-liberal media outlets like the NYT and NBC say Romney trounced Obama in the debate. Yet the kooky lefties on newsvine continue say otherwise.
Liberals. God love em! LOL!
Looks like the Beltway media has rendered their verdict. All one needs to do in order to "win" the debate is;
1) Walk all over Jim Lehrer and ignore the rules YOU AGREED TO.
2) Refuse to be pinned down to any position.
3) Deny every position you've taken in 7 years of campaigning for the Presidency.
4) Agree with the actual President every time you know his position is different than your own.
5) Lie. Lie like your life depends on it. Lie nonstop, unashamedly.
Don't we want better from our President?
jp-696969 Really? If people in other countries have no respect for Obama then why are they begging us to re-elect him? People know if Mitt is elected that the world will turn their backs on us.
Are you delusional? On a recent trip to Europe, the Europeans HATE Obama! Google the parade floats in Germany!
Romney took Obama to debate school. Obama looked like a deer in the headlights without his teleprompter. Anyone that says Obama doesn't need someone else to write his words didn't watch the debate, Romney was the clear winner and the polls will reflect that fact.
But of course!
We have always known Romney would erase the Etch-a-Sketch at the end and move to the center. What a performance! Romney must have been a snake oil salesman in his past life.
Romney portrayed himself as the epitome of the Republican candidate, at least superficially. His performance was just that: a performance. He came straight out of central casting.
He is like all the previous puppets of the GOP...a man without a plan, dancing to the tune of his corporate masters. That used to be OK when we still had jobs in this country. Now the jobs have gone overseas and the middle class has been squeezed to the point where we have to go there too if we want to work.
The sad part is that too many people never look deeper than the surface of a candidate like Romney. If all we had to go by was his debate performance, we might even like the guy.
He's counting on the fact that most people couldn't conceive of standing onstage with the President of the United States, in front of an audience of 50 million people, and lying through their teeth. He's counting on the fact that many Americans are too honest to believe that anyone could do that...so he must be telling the truth?
He's counting on the lazy, Fox-viewing American who expects his or her president to look like the hosts on Fox News.
The diverse style of the two men was definately made apparent.
Romney is a nuts and bolts kind of guy, he studies his material, and knows it well. Comes from his background as a busnessman at Bain.
Obama is a big picture guy, he listens to his advisors, studies the results of the studies, and isn't concerned with the underlying details. Comes from his background as a Constitutional lawyer, studying theory (as opposed to a trial lawyer, used to arguing his case).
That became apparent early in the debate, when Romney made a broad, sweeping statement on his tax policy, and Obama was unable to break it down into specifics and challenge exactly what cuts Romney was proposing.
It became more apparent when Obama mentioned the buzz words, "tax deductions for outsourcing jobs", and Romney called him on it by saying that in all his years of business experience he was unaware of those type of deductions. Obama had no details to use in a response.
Obama's handlers fumbled the ball, they should know their man is not detail oriented, and that the devil is in the details of Romney's plans.
Romney's handlers knew their man, and were able to stick with generalities, not revealing much substance except in attack, all the time knowing that Obama was without the knowledge to push through Romney's generalities.
Look for the next debate to contain more Romney generalities, with Obama incapable of responding by breaking them down into specifics, and debunking the specifics.
Obama's lack of specifics also hurts him in articulating his own accomplishments. Twice he referenced liking the term "Obamacare" without following it up.
Be interesting to see how much Romney has closed the gap.
Did anyone else catch Romney's remark that we are all children of the same God? Is that Romney's way of pi$$ing on all those who believe in a different God or don't believe in one at all?
I guess in the Convention Clint did the empty chair and teleprompter, yesterday it was the empty Podium and no teleprompter.
I heard that Chicago ran our of drugs yesterday because Libs could not sleep.
Romney's rapid fire approach reminded me of a sales tactic to close the sale. However, he changed his terms while trying to close the sale. If this tactic has ever been used on you successfully, you would undoubtedly suffer from what is called "buyer's remorse".
Romney's plan to stimulate the economy with tax cuts simply evaporated in the fist 15 minutes of the debate. He claimed that his tax cuts (advertised as 20% of all tax rates) would be covered entirely by closing loopholes. That it was revenue neutral. A revenue neutral tax cut will not stimulate the economy in any way.
So, Mitt, how do you plan to increase job growth?
I think all and all, like Axelrod said, I'll give Romney style points for the whole debate. It doesn't really matter what you're saying, as long as it sounds convincing and correct. In that respect Romney won. However, one part of the whole debate really stood out to me. He had the audacity to say, verbatim, "My tax plan will not cost 5 trillion dollars. What!!! That's like Obama saying " 1+1=2", and Romney saying, "I disagree with that analysis"!!! Now we all know what he's saying, as soon as we close these unspecified, or, as I like to call them, magical, loopholes, all these costs will fly away into the wind, never to be seen again. However, when he denied a tangible fact, that completely turned me off.
FedupwithFed
you claim that Europeans hate Obama and use floats as your PROOF?????
you need to look up the definition of "HATE" because you apparently don't know what it means.
How do you explain the "hate" portayed by the float of President Obama watching Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad pulling a Trojan horse?
or
President Obama, with the words 'Obama as liberator' on his shirt
or
A float called "Yes we can be ecologist" and President Obama as a superhero?
or
President Obama holding up the Statue of Liberty that fell?
You do realize that these floats also show the Pope, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Italian prime minister Mario Monti and French President Nikolas Sarkozy, and more?
I especially like the one of President Obama and former president George W. Bush during the Torres Vedras village carnival parade in Portugal, February 22, 2009 (#12). Not exactly flattering one for Bush.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/gavon/15-creepy-parade-floats-of-president-obama
What???? NO Fiesty Redhead getting the first post today??????
Obama really sucked last night. I guess he is not good without his telepromptor telling him what to say...............
And this is what the Libs want in office.
Mitt any day- but as we all know the media- MSNBC, ABC, NBC,CNN will ALWAYS defend any Obama & Biden Gaffe, but will jump up and down on Romney for anything just to get a headline.
WOW- I think Obama should just quit now- if that is supposed to be the great orator (last night)- then he is worse than Bush JR.
Hind sight is 20/20. Right now we can pretty much accurately sum up what got us into this massive deficit:
1. Massive tax cuts that weren't paid for
2. Two wars that weren't paid for
We can also sum up what was a leading contributor to the financial crisis:
1. Risky investments, that could have been prevented, had it not been for massive deregulation
Okay, we have that downpack. That was only 4 years ago.
Now, here comes along Romney, with his big bold agenda to get the country back on track:
1. Massive deregulation, encouraging risky investments, all in the pursuit of the highest profit.
2. Massive tax cuts, which will be paid for through magic, as far was we know.
3. Starting a war with Iran, which, by his rhetoric, seems imminent. I know Mitt Romney's rhetoric isn't saying much, but that's all we have to go on.
Now, that's what I call a bold, brand spanking new approach to dealing with the problems we face now!!! Throwing the neediest under the bus, and pandering to the likes of Sheldon Adelson.
That tingle going up Chris Mathews leg turned into a warm stream running down it last night. Priceless. And all of you complaining Mitt has "flip-flopped", that is the same as Obama claiming to have "evolved" his position or him claiming that it was "faulty" intelligence. You only see what your blind eyes want to see and nothing else.
I think Romney definitely put on a better performance than the President, but that's what it was; a performance. It will probably influence the superficial voters because it LOOKED really good. Those who pay attention, however, will see that Romney claimed his plan was NOT what he has been claiming it IS for the entire campaign. He disavowed everything he has been promoting. Those on the right probably will not notice because he did it with such energy, but he reversed most everything he has been running on. Those who look on the surface will see a good debate for Romney, but those who look deeper will see the same Romney who panders to the moment, that we have watched these last 10 years. Those who are looking for some definition of the details didn't hear them in this debate.
Here's a poll for you liberals... Romney 67 - Obama 25. Dispute that!
Genius said:
Now, here comes along Romney, with his big bold agenda to get the country back on track:
1. Massive deregulation, encouraging risky investments, all in the pursuit of the highest profit.
2. Massive tax cuts, which will be paid for through magic, as far was we know.
3. Starting a war with Iran, which, by his rhetoric, seems imminent. I know Mitt Romney's rhetoric isn't saying much, but that's all we have to go on.
Genius - You are entitled to your own airplane and your own home, but not your own facts. Stop making things up that aren't true.
I am 53 years old, and I don't want no stinking voucher!
Speaking of the poll... it remarkably looks like the makeup of the country... 25% liberals... 67% moderates + conservatives... Obama loses in a landslide.
Being an Obama supporter I must admit I was greatly disappointed by his performance and debate style. Talking to the moderator and not the camera was a big no no! Appearing to be looking down to be taking notes all the time was another one, but based on this "facts check" Mitts math. is faulty and his out and out lies were obvious. Whether voters believe the facts or appearances will be the test. Obama has to do better in number two debate or it will change the whole game.
Now that's spin. When has a Democrat ever done that ?
MSNBC LIBERAL BILL GATES MEDIA CAMPAIGN FOR OBAMA STRIKES AGAIN !
COME ON MSNBC, HOW ABOUT THE TRUTH ONCE IN AWHILE ?
WE GET THE IDEA, YOU ARE 190% BEHIND OBAMA. BILL GATES IS CAUSING MSNBC TO LOSE ITS CREDIBILITY. THAT'S A SHAME !
Obama's four years of presidency has been a performance.
A POOR performance. NOT even the liberal media outlets can defend his debate last night.
He did not come prepared- who's fault is that?????
Self responsiblity in this country is being forgotten.
Obama always gets to blame Bush. Never his fault is it????????
Wow, I can't believe all the liberals on this thread. Do any of you have an original thought of your own? Repeating the same ignorant, biased, and false talking points in every post you make. Please put down the cool aid.
Although I am not voting for either of these clowns, EVERY pundit, including liberals and HONEST democrats admit that Romney won the debate. Romney in my opinion looked and sounded "presidential" and Obama sounded and appeared out of his league, totally amatuerish. He seemed disinterested and lost for most of the debate. This man although he is President now, came into that job ill prepared for it and has made a mess of the economic recovery that we should be experiencing and it showed in his demeanor last night - someone way over his head.
As for this constant argument about Romeny providing details, those of you that are such ardent fans of Obama can you tell me if he gave ANY details about his plans in the 2008 election? The answer is no he NEVER gave ANY details, but only made claims like he would lower/maintain unemployment, "change the atmosphere in Washington", and one of my favorites of his "lower the rise in sea level". In fact he has not said what he plans on doing for the next four years other than staying the course we are on right now - f'n brilliant.
So again I suggest you all put down the Obama cool aid, this man is a socialist puppet for the uber-rich just as Romney is, only difference, his team of propagandists are better at hiding it. I suggest you check out his main supporter billionaire George Soros and then tell me he is not in the same pocket as Romney.
Vote Libertarian - Gary Johnson 2012
momgam says "I am 53 years old, and I don't want no stinking voucher!"
More proof positive that liberals listen but do not hear. What part of if you like Medicare you can choose Medicare didn't you understand? Both Medicare and Social Security are soon to be bankrupt, the do nothing approach might be fine for you, but how selfish of you to leave nothing to the future generations that will be picking up the tab for the reckless behavior from Washington. Besides, you won't ever see any former senator, congressman, or president on Medicare, they will use the voucher system they use now for much better coverage.
Out of the woods,
I have already indicated my disappointment in Obama's performance, but to say the President will take out $716 billion from Medicare and not mention it would be returned by adding it to Obamacare coverage is a far cy from Mitt's and Ryan taking the same amount out and using it to pay off the deficit. Net result to Medicare is a big loss for nothing that hurts senior. I'm one of them, but under the old system where I won't get a stinking voucher!
Today's headline should read:
ROMNEY A NO-SHOW IN DENVER; OBAMA DEBATES STRANGER
$716 billion is cost savings according to the Congressional Budget Office.
This is the accounting review part of our Congress. It is relied upon by both Republicans and Democrats who use their figures and projections to construct their budgets.
Romney simply lied once again.
On his 20% across the board tax rate cuts, he abandoned the stimulus effects of lower tax rates completely when he stated that they would be fully funded by closing loopholes. Initially, this plan was touted as a way of stimulating the economy. After last night, it is now just a tax reform measure that will have no positive impact on the economy. Reducing the mortgage interest deduction will hurt the housing market though. Reducing the charitable deduction will reduce charitable giving also. And eliminating the estate tax on millionaires and billionaires will be made up where?
The centerpiece of his economic program is now just a revenue neutral side issue. He promoted it so much during his campaign and it is now just an issue that can be put on the back burner. Jobs and economic growth are the pressing issues right now.
His high pressure sales technique with changing terms is classic "bait and switch". This is considered a deceptive sales practice if done by a car salesman or a mortgage broker. I believe it is also a deceptive sales practice when done by a Presidential candidate.
Shame on you Mitt. Anything to make the sale.
I think Obama was off stride because he heard so many new "flip flopped" ideas that have appeared for the first time last night. Much of what Mitt has taunted the past 18 months right out the widow! yet, Mitt surely won the debate!
Pat in Boston said:
Obviously you was not watching the debate, especially when in regard to your last sentence. Truth be told, that was Romney, not Obama. Romney was thoughtful, intelligent and sincere. Obama's body language was one of either a spoiled child who didn't get his way or of a child who is lying and trying to wiggle out of being caught. When you can't make your case while looking into the eyes of America says a lot.
But I have to say with regard to this thread, the Liberals on this thread have learned well from their Master. Keep repeating lies in a lame attempt to sway the uninformed. Not happening this time. Please pay attention at the next debate and post with truthfulness.
"President Obama came across as thoughtful, intelligent, sincere. Romney quite the opposite."
I'm not a Romney support and I don't trust the Republicans. I am a FORMER Obama supporter and was hoping the president could convince me to support him again. But if you look objectively at the debate and drop your own political prejudices for a moment, you'll HAVE to admit that Romney "won" that debate. But understand what "win" means.
A debate is essentially an organized argument. Regardless of factual substances, Romney "won" the debate based upon perception alone. Voters who are undecided, or who don't really understand the details and facts of the issues but who will vote ANYWAY, will make their decision based upon their perceptions. Remember the old saying, "perception is reality"? Unfortunately that holds true in presidential debates.
So for "keeping it real" (whatever that means in today's new-age vague slang) you Democrats (or liberals, as you like to call yourselves) need to admit that the president wasn't on his game last night. He looked tired, he wasn't aggressive enough against Romney's interruptions/rudeness/overpowering attitude, he didn't seem to command statistics (regardless of how false) or referenced facts with the ease and quickness that Romney did.
Perceptually, Romney "won" this debate. Substantively, probably not. But perception is reality, especially to the ignorant and under-informed. So "keep it real," get over it and get your boy to do better next time.
Romney looks like he is double dosing on Prozac. Carnival theatrics and lies only wows fools.
It won't take long for folks to remember Romney is a serial liar.
GBud - Sadly America is full of fools.
Mitt lied his a$$ off convincingly last night. In Red States, everyone believes him. The math doesn't add up, but then again, in the South Creationism rules and the Earth is only 6000 years old. Folks down here are ignorant. They believe in smaller government and don't understand how much money the Feds spend just to help their States survive. They don't need to be saddled with more math & science teachers from Obama, they just need the Bible & God in the schools. Mittens will give them that! Mittens will cut taxes, cut spending, and cut government all while increasing the military and allowing corporations to run the country.
Did you hear that bit about how he believes in regulations for business? Because he doesn't want folks to be able to run a bank out of their garage. In other words, enough regulations to keep total anarchy away and his big bank buddies in business.
As for the President...Obama looked & sounded like crap. Was he sick or just that rusty? Take away his teleprompters for the rest of October so he gets plenty of practice and sounds as articulate speaking off the cuff as he does reading. He needs to dominate the next 2 debates to win this.
Face it, kids, Prez-0 proved last night what people already know; that he is an empty suit.
Take away his tele-prompters, his handlers, and the MSM CYA'ing for him; and he's like a marionette whose strings have been cut.
Did everyone here watch the same debate? I find that Romney debated much better than the current President. To be fair, neither one went into too much detail on their prospective plans, but at least we know that on the President's side, in spite of all his talk, nothing good has changed yet.
If Romney seemed argumentative, keep in mind, this is a debate. This is not a meeting where you are expected to hear all sides and have the conversation drag on for hours. Each candidate gets roughly 10 minutes; that's all.
Third, a lot of what Romney said was in line with what democrats would like to see. He's for Medicare, SS, teachers, schools, etc....In fact, he was the most LIBERAL out of all the Republican candidates.
So why does the democrats still dislike him?
Unhappy
Policy is important. Fast talk to win debating points is not very important when Romney changed his policy proposals on stimulus effect of his proposed tax cuts.
Policy matters, it is not just rhetoric (as Romney seems to think). It is the definition of economic plans for the way forward for America that are truly what matters most.
The right wing is pathetic!! The Mitt Wit did not fall flat on his face, so they claim victory?!?! romney lied from start, to finish. The President was too nice, and the moderator was too old, and feeble to control the RUDE attempts of romney trying to look like a viable candidate.
He lies.. A wolf in sheep's clothing whose actual policies are the same GOP nightmares of the past
Well with only 5 more weeks to go. I still have heard no specifics by Mitt. And Obama seems content just letting us see through it. I want the President to come and call out Mitt a bold face liar.
I thought Christians are not supposed to lie? Oh yeah Mitt is not a true Christian he's Mormon. They lie all the time.
Here's just a few of the Obama lies.
Would have the most transparent administration in History
Didn’t know Jeremiah Wright was Radical
Minimum Wage will increase to $9.50/hr
Obama campaign would accept public funding
No more wiretapping of citizens
Guantanamo bay to be closed within a year
I am not somebody who promotes same-sex marriage.
Unemployment rate will be 8.5% without stimulus.
Health Care deals will be covered on C-span
Cut Deficit in Half by end of first term
Obama says he’ll save average family $8,000 in gas
We shouldn’t Mandate the purchase of health care
The Health Care Package will pay for itself
We have run out of places in the US to drill for oil.
ObamaCare Fee is not a new tax
The health care bill will not increase the deficit by one dime.
Fence between US and Mexico is “Practically Complete”
My budget will cut the deficit by $4 Trillion over 10 years.
Romney and Ryan will gut pell grants for low-income college students.
I don’t Have Lobbyists
I’ll get rid of earmarks
Hi Genius,
What a funny moniker, by the way. Anyhow, do you honestly think that the $11 trillion in added debt between both Bush 43 and Mr. Obama is the result of the $2.5 trillion in war costs and tax cuts? I don't think one need to be a genius to recognize both items you claim are the major culprits, combined, account for less than 25% of the added debt. And this assumes non-dynamic economic scoring.
Hi ir12,
I can agree with you to this extent...President Obama is smarter than you.
To all Leftists here,
I would like lots of specifics. But this applies to Mr. Romney AND Mr. Obama, and I find your plaintive wail just a bit disingenuous. Had you all been demanding more specificity from Mr. Obama in 2008 I think a fair chance exists that he might not even have been elected president. Why? Because Mr. Obama is intellectually lazy. He's a political empty suit. He has some broad ideas he talks about, but his understanding of their effects leaves much to be desired.
But, even had Mr. Obama won in 2008, if you all had been as demanding of him as you are of Mr. Romney (and so far Mr. Romney is far more specific than Mr. Obama 2008, or even now) then maybe his gauzy ideas would've been thought out better and Mr. Obama could've developed an intellectual defense for them. The debate last night showed that Mr. Obama has no intellectual defese, let alone understanding, of the ideas he claims to support.
This require some set-up so bear with me. Back in 1995 when the republicans wanted to reduce the rate of growth in Social Security payments, due to the fact that the actual rate of inflation, was far lower than the plan anticipated, meaning the increase in payments were greater than needed or justified due to the very low inflation rate. The republicans recognized the fact that the program would/will go broke at some future date without adjustments to the program. The democrats and the MEDIA railed against this claiming these were cuts to Social Security, which is technically what it was, but more accurately, they were cuts to the rate of growth in Social Security.
So now today, the media "Fact Checkers" claim Romney is wrong with regard to his charge that Obama will cut $720 billion from Medicare, because it's not really a cut, but instead a cut in the rate of growth. So when a republican proposes a reduced rate of growth, its a cut, but if a democrat proposes a cut, its a reduction in the rate of growth. Go figure.
Ok there is just one thing that completely baffles me about the medicare cuts to healthcare providers. The obama camp keeps saying they arent limiting health care to seniors but just money paid out to the providers. Do they not understand how business works? The healthcare providers will simply stop seeing medicare patients. Doctors around the country have already started refusing new medicare patients out of fear of losing money when the policies kick in. Im pretty sure no healthcare at all is essentially limiting healthcare provided. How people do not realize this and how the liberal media does not talk about this is just astonishing. YOU CAN NOT LOWER PAYMENT TO HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS FOR MEDICARE AND NOT ACTIVELY LOWER THE AMOUNT OF HEALTHCARE MEDICARE PATIENTS SEE! It just does not work like that, sorry.
I am a liberal voter, but must concede that Romney appeared stronger overall last night.
I also thought he looked like an arse running over the moderator. To me, that was tantamount to cheating. He was allowed to have the last word on segments where he wasn't supposed to. Yes, Obama had more time, but the last segment of a debate is usually the viewed as the better position. I'm concerned that someone who refuses to follow social rules would do well on the world stage.
I also though that after every Romney segment, he had the most frightening forced smile I've ever seen. Not a political point, but it was horrific.
I suspect we will see a different Obama come out next debate. It looks like Romney can be pushed to anger and frustration and if Obama comes prepped for debate war, I think Romney will lose it.
Romney summoned religion/god twice. That frightens me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgvMGLdc908&sns=em
Absolutely Uncertain
Great video
So Obama gets 4 1/2 more minutes of PRIME time and can't make a case to vote for him another 4 years??
Way to go Romney!! Us Republicans are just waiting for round 2 with Ryan and Biden!
Vote Romney!!
It so so funny reading the blogs of ultraliberals on this site. Obama didn't sink to Romney's actions. Romney lies. Blah Blah Blah. You all have listened to so many of Obama's lies for three years that you cannot recognize the truth when it is right in your face. The only hard fact that you all need to come to grips with is that Romney overwhelmingly won this debate because President Obama cannot work without a teleprompter. Let him put out an ad without having to defend it against the person he is making false claims about and he false flat on his face. Sixty seven percent of undecided voters said that Governor Romney won the debate. If you think that was bad, wait until next week when Paul Ryan does the same thing to VP Biden. Put that on top of another poor jobs report and even if the polls oversample Democrats, it is not going to be pretty for the White House.
The president is at this moment, as I type this, speaking in Denver. One of his first complaints about Mitt Romney from last night was the part where Mr. Romney said he didn't know, after 25 years in business, what the heck Mr. Obama was talking about in regards to the claim that there is a tax break to move jobs overseas.
You leftists here repeat the same claim as Mr. Obama, too. No one, so far, from the MSM or any other journalist I am aware of, has asked the president or any other democrat what exactly they mean. And in this speech in Denver Mr. Obama has, again, simply made the assertion without any specificity to back it up.
So I ask you leftists once again...What in the heck are you talking about? There is NO tax code provision which incentivizes moving jobs overseas, unless by that you mean that our business tax rates are the highest in the world and so firms might want to escape them. There is no tax provision which rewards outsourcing (which, btw, is not a bad thing, since if it were you leftists would be out protesting the BMW, Airbus, Siemens, Honda, Toyota, and other foreign owned plants operating HERE in the USA).
If I'm wrong, fine. Just show me. Name the tax provision you consider a reward to firms to send jobs overseas. If you can't, then could you at LEAST stop with this falsehood?
I'm not a huge Romney fan. I would like to see Mr. Romney go after unneeded spending, like he did last night, not just from whether it's worth it to borrow the money from China to do it, but also because most of it isn't even authorized in the constitution. But I am very happy Mr. Romney spoke about the immorality of American leftists, and to a lesser degree even Republicans, who just continue to spend and place the burden on our unborn heirs (he said our kids) so that we can live beyond our means today.
It would be a GOOD thing to end federal education spending. It would be a GOOD thing to get the federal government out of housing financing. Ditto for farm subsidies. Oil exploration subsidies. The list is nearly endless. In fact, every business subsidy of any kind, whether a tax provision or a government insured loan, or a grant--whatever--should be eliminated.
Our financial/economic problems didn't result from too little regulation, they've come about because we simply want too much. Too much government, too much free stuff, too much welfare, too much everything not enumerated in the constitution. So, while Mr. Romney isn't everything I want, the fact remains that Mr. Obama is nothing I want.
My choice here in California is easy. If it magically becomes close I will happily vote for Mr. Romney. If it remains unreachable for him here, then I will vote for Gary Johnson. But since there isn't a single policy that Mr. Obama has proposed, enacted, or supported, which has helped AND been constitutional, I can never vote for him.
The loony left sure has quieted down since last night right after the debate. Even the press couldn't spin this as a BO win.
It's sad to watching Americans not think for themselves. A sad, sad commentary on critical thinking by many ...... at least on this blog.
I'll preface my comments by describing my political position:
I am a moderate and independent. I have been voting for independents for office whenever there was an independent candidate and, where there was not, for a third party candidate or against the incumbent. I had not dog in last night's debate.
I had not planned on watching the debate last night because it is unlikely that either of those candidates will get my vote. I expected President Obama to soundly trounce Governor Romney. The President is an accomplished speaker who carries himself well and is very charismatic.
Last night, he got pummeled. I was astounded to see him look unprepared and off balance for virtually the entire debate, while Governor Romney was very prepared. I'm sure the President will recover well for the next two debates, but anyone stating that he had the better night, looked "Presidential", or used any other comments indicating that he won the debate, went into the debate with a very rose-colored view.
Poor delusional liberals. Democrats, and republicans, Liberal media, and conservative media, all agree that Romney won last night.
If you couldn't see that, then odds are, you're in the 47% that will vote for Obama no matter how big of a failure he is.
Got to hand it to Romney! when it comes to bullying and pushing his weight around (as he did during the republican primaries), he's the master. But when it comes to substance, facts and specifics, it's still on the "trust me stage."
People will give Romney a second look and it will come out even more clear that this guy has no clue what the middle class is about. Cases in point:
1. Middle class income is around $250K--Yeah, right! Maybe in Romney's world. But in this world, middle class income is more to the tune of about $68K.
2. Students who can't afford college can simply borrow from their parents--Yeah right! This dove tails with the previous point . If the middle class earns $250K, then they have plenty of money to lend to their kids for school, Right!!
3. 47% of Americans don't pay income tax, therefore they are not part of the middle class. They are leeches of society who cannot take responsibility for their lives. It doesn't dawn on Mr. Romney that a large part of that 47% consists of elderly who worked all their lives and are now drawing SS. It doesn't dawn on Mr. Romney that a part of that 47% consists of active duty military in combat. It doesn't dawn on Mr. Romney that a large part of that 47% consists of the disabled. These people are all part of the middle class that Mr. Romney just doesn't seem to connect with. But, he and Mr. Ryan are quick to say that the best way to help these people is te get them a job! How do you get a job for an 80-yr old woman on Social security? How do you get a job for a disabled veteran with no limbs? How do you get a job for a head of household who's already employed, but his salary, after accounting for his family expenses, still falls below the poverty line?
4. Romney will reduce taxes by 20%. This equates to $4.9 trillion dollars, over a ten year period (But that doesn't stop him from lying about it on national television). Romney then states that he will recoup the lost revenues fro the tax cuts by reducing or eliminating deductions. Looking at the average middle class income tax deduction, they are, primarily:
- Personal and dependent exemptions
- State and local Income taxes
- Charitable contributions
- Mortgage interest
- Educational expenses
- Medical expenses
- Earned income credit
- Child care
There are others, but the list above is primarily what a typical middle class family would use as deductions. Remove or reduce these deductions and you hit the take home income of the middle class family very hard. it would very much eliminate any benefit from the 20% tax reduction, and in fact, raise taxes on that family. Now what would the same process do to incomes of $250K or greater? Not much of an impact at all. Income of $500K will not miss a $5600 deduction, nor be concerned about earned income credit nor be concerned about child care deduction.
5. Romney's alternative to Obamacare is the "Emergency Room." If you don't have health insurance and become ill, "GO TO THEEMERGENCY ROOM." It's apparent the Romney has never used the emergency room or he wouldn't make such a comment so lightly. Cost of ER care is five to seven times more expensive than primary care. Not to mention that the ER is not a preventative clinic. It's there for "EMERGENCIES."
Romney can't continue to mouth the words "Middle Class" all he wants. But his positions and his statements show his complete lack of understanding of what the middle class consists of. Those of you, on the right, who continue to support Romney are fully deserving of his policies if he’s elected. If you’re in that middle class, be prepared for an a$$ reaming.
RICH-281385 wrote:
"So I ask you leftists once again...What in the heck are you talking about? There is NO tax code provision which incentivizes moving jobs overseas....."
Though I do not consider myself a leftist, let me respond with an example:
I own a company that makes styrofoam coffee cups. I decide to close my US manufacturing facility and offshore the work to my new Cayman Islands tax haven corporation.
In the Cayman Islands I can manufacture styrofoam coffee cups at the cost of one cent per hundred cups. I then sell these 100 cups to my US corporation for 24 cents per 100. My Cayman Islands entity has earned 23 cents of profit which is not subject to US income taxes.
My US corporation now sells these 100 stryfoam coffee cups to Walmart for 29 cents per 100. On my US tax return I reflect 5 cents of profit, the difference between what I paid my Cayman Islands corporation and what I charged Walmart.
My real profit is 28 cents, however. The 23 cents of profit that is sitting in the Cayman Islands, and the 5 cents of profit from my sale to Walmart.
I then have my US corporation borrow 22 cents from my Cayman Islands corporation to pay officer bonus and dividends. Now my US corporation has to pay interest to my Cayman Islands corporation giving me another US tax deduction of 2 cents.
I do this year after year after year. It's the gift that keeps on giving.
Ultimately my US corporation will pay no income taxes, becuase they will be so heavily indebted to my Cayman Islands corporation that the interest payments will create paper accounting losses. All the while, I still make 28 cents per 100 styrofoam coffee cups I sell to Walmart.
There is accounting, and accounting.
CRAP stands for Cleverly Rigged Accounting Ploys.
What's the difference when we've already got one in office?
Hi CPO Sharkey,
You are close enough to being a leftist to call it a wash. Thanks for your answer. Two points about it. First, if an American firm is doing business in a foreign country it cannot shield its revenues from US tax law. At least not legally. The president, and virtually every liberal/leftist with an opinion on this I've heard, says the tax code actually REWARDS firms for taking jobs overseas. Our tax code, in fact, is indifferent to where the income was earned, or in which country it is held, if the firm earning it is an American firm. So in that sense your answer fails.
Second, if ANOTHER firm, this one foreign owned, does what you say, then they are subject to whatever tax code provisions exist in their domiciled country. Any distribution of profits to a US firm would be illegal unless taxes were, again, paid under US tax law. Your reply fails on this count too.
You apparently didn't read my post in which I mentioned that since the USA has the highest business taxes on earth that firms might want to move overseas to avoid them. But this implies those firms become foreign owned, not simply arms of a domestically owned American firm. In which case the US tax code would no longer apply, and so the claim the US tax code rewards outsourcing would, again, be wrong.
And, just to be clear, because this really does matter and democrats have been entirely untruthful about this, a US citizen which banks their money in a foreign country are subject to US tax law. You can't simply hide your money legally by moving it overseas. MANY current elected democrats, Diane Feinstein is just one, bank some of their assets overseas. There is nothing sinister about this.
So, thanks for the try, but none of what you said can legally exist. It could be that you on the left mean to say that all firms outsourcing their work overseas are, in fact, illegally concealing their incomes, but then this isn't the claim being made, and since it's the only way I could conclude the claim being made has any validity, I can't conclude you are right unless you have some proof of this systemic criminality.
Nothing was said last night by Ritt MORMONey that changes what he has said since he started campaigning five years ago. His plan will not cut 5T$ from the budget just 20% of all taxes which just happens to equal 5T. The Republican plan will cut 716B from Medicare, Ritt will restore the same 716B. Ritt will repeal Romneycare but only for Massachusetts. He will send your job to China, then he will spank China. He will perform your abortion, then arrest you for it. His plan is different from Simpson-Bowles, but he wants the President to grab onto it. His plan will cut the deficit, eliminate unemployment, lower everyones taxes and provide freedom and unicorns for everyone willing to work for peanuts in a right to work state. He plans to get those lazy rich fat cat welfare recipients to pay their fair share, and die when when they are told to. Stop it!!!! Stop it!!!. He loves the 100% just not the 47% who are doing Gods work by not supporting the bloated inefficient Federal govmint, only paying states rights taxes. Take two vaginal probes and call me in the morning.
He was, and still is all over the place in his policies, statements, and loyalties. Last night we saw the "liberal" Ritt, before it was the "severely" conservative one.
Hey Rich-281385. I'm well aware that my name suggests it, but rest assured, I'm anything but egocentric.
Here's what you said:
There's a 10 to 1 chance that you've never been in an economics class in your life, but let me just light a candle in that vast darkness of ignorance you harbor so well. President Obama inherited a $1.3 trillion dollar deficit. That's well documented, yes? Also, it's well documented that he said he would cut the deficit in half. I'm sure you are well aware of that, yes? The thing about that is he was in no way accounting for the depths of the recession. You see, one of the best ways to counter a festering deficit is through growth, which gets more revenue into the government. He was counting on growth forecasts in that specific time, which of course never came to fruition, because of the depths of the recession. Now, the very, very, very last thing you want to do in a recession is cut public employment or government expenditures. If you do, that decreases overall consumption, hindering further job growth. Now what did we do? We let state and local government fall by the wayside, and allowed them to cut down public employment. However, Obama did maintain, indeed, decrease, the deficit that he inherited. However, any further attempts to trim that deficit would have meant further expenditure decreases, further tax hikes, and, thus, more job loss. So I think it's entirely fair to say Obama has inherited $1.3 trillion dollars in deficit spending, and the least he could have done was to maintain that amount of spending, thus accounting for some $5.2 trillion dollars that was added to the debt. The stimulus bill was also a factor in the national debt, but all indicators say that it kept the unemployment rate down a substantial percentage, and kept the country from going into the midst of a depression. This then brings us to the question of how did we get from surpluses, to digging $1.3 trillion dollars deeper into debt in the first place. And, like I said, those factors can be summed up into a few things:
1. Two wars that weren't paid for
2. Massive tax cuts, which we were told were going to pay for themselves!!! Of course they didn't.
3. Medicare prescription drug benefits that weren't paid for.( Historically, even from the Reagan years, this seem to be a recurring theme in the Republican party.).
You see, like I said, Hindsight is 20/20. The summation of all this fiscal recklessness, from the party that want to casts itself as the party of fiscal restraint is sheer tomfoolery.(I heard that word today, and I wanted to use it)
I like to call you the Intellectual brain washed, because, like Romney at the debates last night, what you say sounds quite good quite good, but it indeed leaves something to be desired in the substance department.
I wish Obama had,and I'm really hoping Joe will. When Ryan pulls a "Romney" style lie. Look at him and say "Paul,I think your pants are on fire".
Rich......
The corporation formed in the Cayman Islands is not a US corporation, it is a Cayman Islands corporation formed pursuant to the laws of the Cayman Islands. Therefore it is a seperate and distinct foreign entity and cannot be taxed by the US government. It can even be an unconsolidated foreign subsidiary of the US parent, and often is.
Ownership of a corporation does NOT determine nationality, many corporations worldwide are owned by shareholders that live in countries other than the one the corporation is formed in. So, a corporation formed in Ireland, owned by a US, German, and Spanish shareholder, is still an Irish corporation.
Corporations are taxed based on the country they are formed in, and the countries they do business in. So, a US corporation which does business in Germany is taxed by both Germany and the US on it's German operations, and allowed to take a tax credit for taxes paid to the foreign (German) government.
A Corporation that is formed in a tax haven country, such as the Cayman Islands, cannot be taxed by the US unless it conducts operations in the US. To avoid this, sales are made in the Cayman Islands.
Second, there is little to no business taxes in the tax haven countries, that is why they are known as tax haven countries. The US does NOT have the highest business taxes on earth, tax haven countries like the Caymans, Bermuda, Grenada, the Isle of Man, Ireland, and several others are all lower.
If you do a little research on Cayman Islands corporations, you will find a picture of a very nice quaint three story white stucco building that houses about a dozen offices for attorney's and is the headquarters to several thousand corporations.
As to your remark on the taxability of foreign earnings by a US citizen, you should note my example was for a corporation. You are arguing that an individual equals a corporation as far as US tax law is concerned. That is totally incorrect. Corporations are taxed differently than individuals according to US tax law.
Not only can my example legally exist, but it does exist in the real world.
You want proof of my claims, type into your search engine "Dart Container US taxes".
My example is straight out numerous accounting analysis of the method Dart Container utilized to avoid US Federal Income Tax. By the way, Dart Container manufactures styrofoam coffee cups in the Cayman Islands.......The shareholder of Dart Container also gave up his US citizenship and became a citizen of Belize, became a Belize Ambassador to the US, then tried to make a hefty political contribution to Bill Clinton so that his residence in Florida would be declared a Belize Consolate so he wouldn't have to leave Florida.
Bill Clinton was smart enough not to touch this guy with a ten foot pole.
Go ahead, look it up, not only can it happen, it does.
Hey CPO,
I think you made my point. What was my point? There is no provision of the US tax code which rewards moving firms overseas. If the business activity (even of a foreign domiciled firm) occurs in the USA then we can tax it. I don't think we should, but that is another debate. Or, if the owner of the foreign domiciled firm is an American, the profits when distributed would be taxed by the USA regardless of where they are banked. To sum up, Mr. Obama's claim that such a provision exists is false. There is another reason we know it is false....
Despite being called out on it by Mr. Romney, the president continues to make the claim but without any specificity. Mr. Obama could HAMMER Mr. Romney simply by showing the American voting public what provision he claims exists which Mr. Romney claims doesn't. Imagine the electoral value of demolishing the main premise of Mr. Romney's candidacy--that he is a businessman capable of fixing our country because he knows what is what. But Mr. Obama doesn't do this, because he can't do this, because there is no tax code provision which does what he claims.
Hey Genius,
I didn't think you were egocentric. Just a master of over-statement. Let's run through your claims. First, we had no surplus. I know this is a hard thing for liberals to understand, but if we had a surplus (and this is how you can tell we didn't) then our debt for any year of such a surplus would decline. What happened in every year of Mr. Clinton's presidency? Yep, debt went up. If you want to claim the deficit got smaller, coming close to surplus, then I would agree. Precision does matter here though.
The reason precision matters is because of another of your claims. This is the one that Mr. Obama inherited a $1.3 trillion deficit. Well, when you include TARP funds we do get a large deficit, though not $1.3 trillion large, but I get your general point. The problem with your analysis is that since you on the left also claim that TARP produced profits for the USA (I know, Chrysler, GM, AIG, and some others, are still losses at this point), you can't charge TARP spending against the deficit without crediting TARP profits against the very same deficit. My opposition to TARP doesn't alter this simple accounting requirement, though I'm not sure you get it. The point is that with TARP expenditures that were repaid to the treasury the deficit Mr. Obama inherited was about half the deficit we have today.
Which makes your claim that Mr. Obama has cut, though not in half, the yearly deficit false as well. But this really misses the point. The absolute size of the deficit is irrelevant except in terms of GDP growth, if your argument is about economics. Who would really care, economically speaking, if we were adding more than a trillion dollars of debt per year if GDP was growing by a much larger amount as a result? But this isn't what is happening. For every $1 of GDP growth, we have had to increase the deficit by $2.5. Even a genius like you can see the economic insanity of this.
To the blame game. I didn't excuse Mr. Bush for his part of the added deficit, and you shouldn't try to excuse Mr. Obama for his part. It's, well, pathetic. But as a genius I'm sure you knew this already and but for the inability to edit your post after some time passed you certainly would have written something less infantile. I could be wrong, who knows?
To your major stimulus point. Greater government spending relative to private spending will, in every case in a mature country (mature meaning a fully formed government), result in otherwise lower GDP growth rates than the reverse. At least until you starve the government of enough revenue so that it can't even perform the basic functions of constitutional government, like national security or a legal system where disputes can be resolved. More governmental spending when the existing levels of it are already too high, just to avoid recession, is immoral. We owe it to our unborn heirs to not punish them economically so that we can live beyond our means today.
But your example truly shows the dearth of economic literacy you possess. Wealth in a mature republic doesn't result from government spending. The reason for this is so simple that I am almost embarrassed I have to explain it to a genius like you. The government gets money from one source--taxes. Either current or future taxes are the only way a government can finance any program (money printing, meaning inflation, is just another form of a tax). No, what we need is LESS government at all levels and more private sector GDP growth. I don't want my kids saddled with your "new normal" where our GDP is a paltry 1.3% and price increases are larger. That world, the one you want, can produce only one thing over time: Serfdom.
Uncle Bob,
I once had an Uncle Bob too. I loved your comment and it reminds me of what my uncle would have said. I'd say your fly is down and let's stop the lying! Romney's math. has been proven by several "Fact Checks" to be drastically in error. Can you imagine having a president who would have to apologize to 47% of Americans and have to apologize to almost half the world for his words and lies!
"TRUTH SQUAD"???..Now that's the funniest thing I've heard all week...There no such thing as truth in the media...only fact and fact can be manipulated and shaped to mean anything, except for truth.
Despite this, I shouldn't be too hard on NBC News, you see I've had a pretty crappy week and today's my last day at work due to a budget cut. This news network, and its Truth Squad have managed to put a smile on face despite my dilemma...Keep up the good work NBC News..I'm going to need another dose next week to help me thru it...
We didn't. We changed accounting methods after Clinton to tell the truth about where we really were financially. There was no Clinton surplus. The truth is that he used an alternate accounting method that hides debt and raided the Social Security Trust. The true National Debt at the end of Clinton's term was: $ 5,725,066,298,944.04
See the numbers here: http://treasurydirect.gov/NP/NPGateway
The rest that you mention is just more of the same added to what was already there.
What I heard was mitt running from everything he has said for 2 years .
I heard the same thing. He was doing his Etch-a-Sketch moment and came off very moderate. To be honest I thought Romney did a good job. But I thought he would. I don't care much for him but he's not a stupid person.
Much as a support the President I would probably give the win to Romney. But what will his stance be on those things tomorrow (Medicare, education, ObamaCare, taxes, etc). He seemed to throw the far right under the bus. So I still don't know what he believes.
Still all in all, I'm still fully supporting the President. I KNOW what he stands for.
It will be interesting to see if Romney's campaign walks any of this back like they have before.
He's still the fish on dry land! He will never be able to stop flip flopping around the issues.
carpenter .. NO KIDDING .. Mr Flip Flop demonstrated it all in HDTV! Tonight he again came out against his own plan of Romneycare!
What an a$$ .....
Obama/Biden 2012
Romney clearly won this one - he was much more concise, informative, and in complete command of the facts. Obama looked ticked through most of it.
Good for Romney - we need a better president than what we've got.
Romney's goal tonight should have been to try and gain new voters by explaining in detail how he would be more effective as the POTUS. All he did was prove what an argumentive, arrogant and no idea person we all knew he was. Yes, his base that was going to vote for him anyway, are thrilled because he was on the attack. The other voters, the majority, are turned off.
Better than having to run from everything Obama has DONE (or not done) for the last four years.
Enjoy your gas prices, but clearly that is not a problem if you have not job to drive to.
I just LOVE the headline of this thread. NBC? Truth? Please wait while I catch my breath..
CNN evaluated Obama as "listless", "bored", and "angry". Their take was that Obama seemed irked that he even had to be there.
Romney, by contrast, in their view, won hands down- despite getting four fewer minutes to speak.
My opinion?
Romney didn't need them.
I do remember all the Obama cult members shouting "wait for the debates!"
Well, guys- Romney just ate Obama's lunch.
Does Obamacare cover an ass-kicking? I hope Barack is covered.
No wonder his campaign downplayed the debate. He actually babbled at times.
Thank you, President-elect Romney, for your vision and showing 40 million Americans what an intellectual light weight we've suffered under the last 4 years.
It sounded more like Romney was running to get his old job as Mass. governor back than the job of running the whole country.
Conservative
So your ok with Mr. Romney back-tracking everything? I thought you liked his original proposals?
According to CNN, the "twitter verse" is exploding- with wailing cult members, who simply cannot believe their idol did so poorly.
Bill Maher may never recover.
While the pundits out there are saying that Obama was not on his game tonight and the polls are gonna show a Romney bounce -- I would like to point out one thing---
ROMNEY LIED THROUGH HIS TEETH TONIGHT!!!
And he did not provide any specifics, so --- sure the Mitt had more control of tonights debate than Leyer (sp) did --- he still has no story
There's no there there!
nojoe ...
Really? angry I get ... as the lying Etch did nothing more than state that everything he has said in the past few weeks is nothing but a lie. He was proud of being the "grandfather" of Obamacare when speaking with Univision. Today ... he distanced himself. What the He!!? Stand your dam@ ground and get your balls back from Ann, Mitt!
Obama/Biden 2012
Spin it however you like, but Romney wasn't the candidate speaking directly to the top of his podium. I just loved the statement Obama made about companies getting tax credits for sending jobs overseas....who does the president think has been in charge for the last 3.5 years??
Obama looked flat and disinterested...Romney was factual and energetic.
Two things I loved-
Romney shutting Obama down on the "five trillion dollar tax cut" lie- and
Romney's line about "trickle down government".
Perfect.
Mitt reminded me of someone that can't carry a note in a bucket, that gets the mic on Karaoke night and wont let anyone else have a turn. Romney looked like a kid about to pee his pants. I found him rude to the President and Jim L. He has no respect for others. Some how that is no surprise. How can anyone think Romney will not get us into a 3 war to make money for his rich friends. I never heard so many lies. Romney don't get done with one lie when he has started another one. People will not fall for his lies. The Rep have tried to turn everything they did wrong and tried to make us think the Dem's have done it. I think they will try to tell us next the Dem's started the wars we are in.
Toxic....Duh....The repubs blocked the bill again on 7-19-12 that would end tax breaks for the companies that take job overseas. The same bill had tax breaks for companies that would bring jobs back to America!.........Romney said he was for thos tax breaks for jobs going overseas.......We call it...CURRENT EVENTS! The president presented FACTS!
Tonight, Romney unveiled his latest version upgrade...
Romney 10.0
The Democratic candidate.
He's for SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Teachers, the poor, the sick, students, seniors, Taxes for the rich, no taxes for the middle, will provide national health care, etc. etc.
WTF???
He will say anything.
Obama couldn't argue with him, there was nothing to argue about.
I agree Romney did a great job, but did you also notice he sounded way, way more moderate than he did during the primaries? On just about every issue, he agreed to some extent with Obama's plans. His entire "presentation" was a step or two away from the things he's been saying up to this point in the campaign. On funding education, he did a complete 180. Tonight he was the moderate to left leaning governor who got things done in Massachusetts, not the conservative republican repeating Tea Party rhetoric on the campaign trail. It looks like the base got thrown under the bus...again. I can almost hear him giving amnesty to all the illegals so he can get the Hispanic vote.
Obama's performance was lackluster. "I'm the President and I'm ahead in the race" is how he came across to me. He looked surprised and confused by Romney's aggressive attitude. On the other hand, he was diciplined enough not to get into a knockdown, drag out fight with Romney over the word-twisting and obvious attempts to piss him off. His easy ride in the polls are over, and he's now the underdog.
Romney is still Romney. Insincere, condescending and saying what he thinks people want to hear. Personally, I'd rather stay on this slow road to recovery than jump into the unknown after Romney. Being a Marine, I'm not one to follow just anybody who doesn't instill confidence. Someone likened him to a "yapping puppy who wouldn't shut up" or something like that.
Obama/Biden 2012.
Starsailing, I'm sure the bill you are referring to must have had some poorly laid out provisions that you are not representing. No conservatives, including Mitt Romney would be in favor of setting up a climate of rewarding companies to ship jobs overseas. Seeing many posts here, there is a prominent selectivity of facts. We all know how DC works, politicians are known for adding crap to good bills.
You might want to come into the 21st century and get a more current hairstyle.....
You failed to express which points you think Romney "back tracked" on so I can only assume you have no specifics.
Obama fell back on his stand-bys, platitudes and distortions. He actually used some of the same lines he did at the 2008 debates.
He didn't want to be there, No wonder, neither did Carter in 1980. He's a failed President who cannot run on "hope and Change" when most of the nation still demands change. That would be him.
Romney..what was the question again?
OBAMA 2012
njnbnj,
From AP-
"Romney proposes to reduce income tax rates by 20 percent and eliminate the estate tax and the alternative minimum tax. The Tax Policy Center, a Washington research group, says that would reduce federal tax revenues by $465 billion in 2015, which would add up to about $5 trillion over 10 years."
"Trickle down government" was one of those rehearsed zingers they were discussing before the debate. It's a deflection tactic from trickle down economics that Mitt Bush .. err Mitt Romney is trying to hide from.
Mitt Romney lied through his eye teeth tonight..I wish President Obama had been a little more aggressive, but if he had done that, the first thing people would have said that he was being an "angry black man"...The president still gets my vote because if Romney gets elected, this country is going straight to hell in a hand basket....
dsb-It will be interesting to see if Romney's campaign walks any of this back like they have before.
I doubt it.The ONLY thing important to them is winning.They don't care how much they lie or evade to win.They know if they win they can just go back on it.
I am with you on this ..with our son also in the service, Romney makes life completely unknown. The Governor was just doing tonight what he's been doing for years, he only speaks what he thinks you want to hear. The speech he gives changes daily. I agree with most, Romney was clearly the agressor & he loves this format. I also think if i were undecided, and had been watching and listening to this bull@!$%# for last few years. i would see the governor as a slick double talking person as in the 47% video. I wonder whaich country he'll piss off first with his load of crap. Real scary thought.
toxic: Here is the data on this outsourcing bill.
WASHINGTON, D.C. – The Senate has rejected further consideration of a bill Democrats say would have eliminated existing tax breaks for employers who ship their jobs overseas. While Republicans sought to squash it as political theater, Democrats admit quarreling over the “Bring Jobs Home Act” was openly influenced by the 2012 presidential campaign.
“It’s fairly easy to see why Republicans are blocking our bill to stop outsourcing,” Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said at a press conference before the vote. “They’re obviously defending their presidential nominee, who of course made a fortune by shipping jobs overseas.”
Reid was referring to Mitt Romney’s past involvement with Bain Capital, the private investment firm Democrats say bought companies, laid off many of their American workers, and outsourced their jobs. Democrats have made Romney’s history with Bain a central talking point on the trail.
Senator Richard Durbin, D-Ill., followed Reid, saying that today’s vote was about turning the Republican position on outsourcing into “a matter of record.”
“So the dance ends, the music ends and the votes are counted,” he said. “And we can find out whether or not the Republican senators support the Bain Capital investment strategy of exporting jobs overseas.”
Under existing law, employers may take tax deductions for the costs associated with moving jobs out of the country. The proposed legislation would have eliminated that, and used the resulting new revenue to fund a 20 percent tax credit for the costs companies run up “insourcing” labor back into the U.S.
Congressional analysts at the Joint Committee on Taxation say $14 million could be raised next year from removing outsourcing credits, compared to a cost of $21 million for bringing those jobs back.
Romney should have been disqualified at the debate for lying !!!!!!!!
Conservative
I mean he backtracked on ObamaCare (he loves it, he hates it and will repeal immediately, he likes parts of it, exactly where does he stand?), his tax cut, Medicare, I've been paying quite a bit of attention to his stances. He came off a lot more moderate than the party platform. Every time he has done this in the past his campaign has come back and said 'no, he didn't REALLY mean it'.
Uncle Bob. Yep, I suspect they will let him get away with it because they were so behind in the polls. The real issue is whether the far right will pull his chain back if he gets elected. I suspect so and will stay with the President. I know his policies. They haven't changed and he doesn't have Rove et al in the background driving things.
In reply to you people that are stating Romney has back peddled and switched what he stood for tonight; I have followed both sides very carefully and have watched what both are promoting, I would suggest you look at the candidates sites and not listen to MSNBC to get your facts, Romney has stated these exact goal when he first started this run, the news just refused to carry it. I also have looked at Obama's site and have found he is very consistent with what he states. So to lie and state either has back-flipped is lies, you just did not do your research.
Yeah I am trying to figure out what is so great about giving a group a 5 trillion tax cut and then "paying' for it by closing loopholes, which only that same very group uses. Basically it is a circle jerk and the taxes stay at the effective rate.
How does it fix our deficit that they keep crying about? How does that encourage businesses to hire, move factories back, or to pay their workers more of a percentage? It does chit, his plan is chit, and he is a piece of chit, that spewed chit all night long...same old chit different day, nothing new :P.
President Obama seemed confused by Mr.Romney actually flip-flopping right in front of his eyes. How do you debate multiple personalities at one time? Quite extraordinary to witness. Mr. Romney even had himself confused at times with his verbal jujitsu. On one occasion he argued with the poor moderator, Mr.Obama and seemingly another version of himself. I believe this occurred over his tax cuts but I'm still a bit light headed on this amazing exchange. President Obama appeared a bit agitated but quickly regained his composure and seemed to realize you can't argue with a person like this. Can't wait for round two. Biden-Ryan should be a real hoot,too.
What I wanted to see was how Obama plans to work with both parties to come up with solutions... if he can show that he would show that he MAY be the one for the next term.
What I did see was Romney tell how he worked with 87% Dems to get Massachusettes back on track. That will be the key for victory, getting congress working again.
nonbnj, Great finally someone that knows what Romney's plan is. Could you please share it with the rest of us. Your boy Mitt does not seem to be able to do so.
sirie, too funny. I guess your talking about the liberal Romney who worked with liberal legislators. Which Romney would show up in the Oval Office? The anti-choice, anti-gay, anti-health care, anti-education or anti-everything rightwingnut, or the pro-choice, pro-gay, pro-health care, or pro-education liberal he once was?
Romney will reveal everything if we elect him. He has all the answers, and the solution to all our problems is so easy, he doesn't want to tell anyone. If he did, someone else would flip the switch and get the credit for fixing everything.
sirie,
844 vetos. 707 were overridden. Is that what you men't by working with the opposition?
Actually for the first time Romney was able to stand and refute the lies and distortions the Obama campaign has been telling for 2+ years. Obama looked clueless and acted as if showing up was all he needed to do. Unfortunately for Obama he was off the teleprompter, and he looked pathetic in the wake of someone with actual plans to help this country.
OMFG!!!! Right on schedule the Leftest Lap Dogs in the Dishonest Messiah Obama Media are doing Damage Control out the ass! Look at this BS article...
MSM = Barack Hussien Obamas Campaign headquarters = Leftest L I A RS
Just like the LEFTEST LIAR they allow to hide under their metaphoric dress...
I wonder if it ever stinks down there (Obama hiding under MSM dress) C
But those businesses that are in the last 3 percent of businesses happen to employ half -- half of all the people who work in small business. Those are the businesses that employ one-quarter of all the workers in America. And your plan is to take their tax rate from 35 percent to 40 percent. Now, and -- and I've talked to a guy who has a very small business. He's in the electronics business in -- in St. Louis. He has four employees. He said he and his son calculated how much they pay in taxes, federal income tax, federal payroll tax, state income tax, state sales tax, state property tax, gasoline tax. It added up to well over 50 percent of what they earned. And your plan is to take the tax rate on successful small businesses from 35 percent to 40 percent.
He first says the 3% make up half of the small business workers, and then he cites an example where the guy has four employees.
In addition, Obama has cut taxes for the middle class and small businesses several times. Why would Wrongme say that Obama now wants to raise them? It doesn't make sense.
Obama should be disqualified for lying on his campaing promise from 2008!!!!!!!!! AND THE FACT THAT NONE OF THEM WERE FULFILLED Not to mention the ultra @!$%#ty job he has been doing for the last four years.
No wonder he was disorientated- he actually had to do some work....and he could not even do that.
Skinny Erkle in a suit- that is what we have for President right now.
Returning to reality... maybe you didn't hear Mitch McConnell say that the primary goal of his party was not the welfare of the country, but to make Obama a one term president? Maybe you missed the news of the meeting of GOP leaders on inaugural night in 2009 where they plotted to obstruct the newly-elected President Obama on every front?
Have you noticed that the Tea Party congress has stopped most of the progress towards job growth over the past two years?
Mitt Romney did not have to work across the aisle in Massachusetts! He fully supported the liberal/moderate Democratic agenda himself (despite his later lie that he was a "severely conservative" governor). All Romney had to do as governor of Massachusetts was lie back and let his Democratic-controlled legislature do all the work.
Had he actually gone against the Massachusetts Dems on a single isssue, he'd have been steam-rolled.
Romney doesn't have the stones to tell it like it is. He has spent his entire life as an entitled bully. His primary campaign strategy is buy and lie.
True conservatives see right through him. He doesn't support the conservative agenda, and he never did! Do you like donating your money to elect someone who will turn around and dump all over you? If so, go with Romney. Unless you're a very wealthy man, good luck buddy.
Obama started his first term saying Republicans to the back of the bus, and now he pretends he has tried to reach across the isle? The Republicans have been snubbed by a president that came to Washington to impose his will and not compromise or work together. You reap what you sow and Obama chose partisanship and class warfare over the good of the nation. Maybe because Obama simply does not know how to lead, and bully tactics got him where he is today but he has failed miserably.
Obama skips intelligence briefings, goes campaigning the day our ambassador is murdered, and you call him a leader? Obama outsourced healthcare to Reid and Pelosi, and hasn't put forth a budget that could get a single vote. 90 billion wasted in clean energy losers, and yet Obama complains about 4 billion in oil subsidies. Obama is clueless and he looked it last night. No wonder he spends his time on The View and Letterman where a tough question is what super power would you like have.
What happened on the debate stage in Denver last night was not a debate.
What we saw was Romney attacking the president, distorting Obama's record, and appearing for the first time as a completely different man with a completely new position on virtually every issue.
For President Obama, it must have felt like Mitt Romney didn't show up and he was debating someone else, someone he had never heard of.
ObamaRomney choose partisanship and class warfare over the good of the nation. Maybe becauseObamaRomney simply does not know how to lead, and bully tactics got him where he is today.I corrected that for you, Rick. There is a psychological term for what you're doing, using the defense mechanism of projection:
To the original comment - it's funny, none of the media sources seem to agree with your notion that Romney lost the debate last night. Even MSNBC was rather begrudgingly giving Romney the victory... they were busy bashing the moderator for not maintaining control of the situation.
The fun fact that isn't brought up... they make it sound as if Romney's tax plan costs will be offset completely by closing loopholes and deduction allowances. A large part of the anticipated cost offset is put on the assumption that his tax plan will help the economy, creating 12 million jobs... therefore generating a large amount of revenue through new people paying income taxes. Now you may call BS on this, but both sides use the same logic when creating "budget neutral" plans. Take Obama's health care legislature for instance.... the "budget neutral" title came from assumptions that precautionary care will save such and such an amount of money (which it will... but the predictions aren't always accurate) and assuming that they won't run into problems setting up the system and people who will run it. There are actually quite a few "loopholes" in the plan that allow for additional funding in the case that the allotted amount isn't enough.
When it comes down to it... any time a politician claims "budget neutral" red lights start flashing in my mind.
That said... I have much more confidence in Romney's ability to do what is best for the economy. I don't trust someone who was "handed a mess" then decided that it was in the country's best interest to spend most of his efforts pushing through a healthcare plan that he went into knowing had to be passed while he didn't need bi-partisan support. The economy issue (more pressing for ALL of America) was put on the back burner and last night he paid for that choice dearly. The only supporters he has this morning were going to vote for him regardless. It looks like he's lost ground with the group that needed his primary focus... the undecided.
Kaybee,
That's funny considering Progressives are the masters of projection. It's a fundamental tenet in Rules for Radicals.
Trickle down government. Really?
Unemployment compensation for laid off workers. How is helping those in need trickle down. It is trickle up, if anything.
Clinton raised taxes on the rich and used the increased tax revenue to expand the earned income tax credit for the working poor. This transfer of money from the rich who were sitting on much of it waiting for the economy to improve in 1993 went into the pockets of people struggling with low paying jobs at the bottom of the economic ladder.
These low income people spent their extra money almost immediately and it stimulated growth in the economy to about 4%. The faster growth in the economy raise tax revenues enough to balance the budget for 4 straight years. This is trickle up even though the government engineered it.
Romney plays word games, but the truth is that now our economic problems are cause by too much investment money (0% interest rate on 10 year T-bills are an example of this) and too little consumer spending.
An increase in consumer spending fuels business expansion. Romney has ignored how economies recover from a recession in his plans. He was the trickle down economics guy, but after last night he said in effect "NO TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH". Thus, he has abandoned trickle down economics, at least for the moment.
Actually, if it weren't for the Dems, we never would have had those wars in the first place.
1. Remember the USS Cole? Clinton (Democrat) had Osama bin Laden in his grasp and let him go. If Osama had been tried and executed, would there have been an Al Qaeda which he founded to bomb the Twin Towers with jet planes?
2. Clinton (Democrat) cut the Intelligence Budget so drastically that elementary schools had better computers than the CIA and FBI! Better computing = better intelligence. Bad intelligence = threats lacking credibility enough to take preventative action.
3. Clinton (Democrat) and the Clinton Administration (Democrat) repeatedly stated that they had no doubt that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction for years before Bush used that as one of several reasons to go into Iraq. Bush only repeated what the Clinton Administration had been saying for years as one reason to go in. Had Clinton and members of his administration not made and repeated that claim, would we have gone in? Of course, if there had been no Al Qaeda (see point 1 above) this might have been a moot point.
Had it not been for the cuts and Clinton's letting go of Bin Laden, and Clinton's repeated belief that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, we may never have had to go into Afghanistan. Iraq was debatable but even with that we might not have ever felt the need to go into Iraq in the first place.
So, yes, the Dems also were responsible for what happened that led up to invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan by the US.
BS. Remember when Clinton attacked the al Qaeda training camps with cruise missiles and gave a speech about bin Laden and al Qaeda being the most serious threat at the time to national security?
Republicans screamed accusations of "wagging the dog" and ramped up their hearings into Monica Lewinsky's soiled dress.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to point out just how desperately wrong Conservatives have been in the development of all this.
Damn the Cruise Missiles. He should have carpet bombed the entire facilities and crippled them when he had the chance. The USS Cole incident, however, gave Clinton a chance to redeem himself. He had bin-Laden in his grasp and he let him go. The rest is history.
At least base your phony talking points on things that Snopes.com hasn't already covered;
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/clinton.asp
At least realize that your false understanding and lacking knowledge of the situation isn't covered by the Snopes article. He actually had bin-Laden in his grasp and let him go. I did not see that in the Snopes story. Try again...
By the way, he also had a more golden opportunity in 1999 but failed to take it. See the following from a lib website:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/14/hank-crumpton-cia-clinton-bin-laden_n_1514895.html
No, all of that is debunked in the Snopes piece, and plenty of others as well.
The Snopes piece is quite mistaken. Even Bill Clinton himself regrets not getting him when he had the chance. Read up on it.
Kandahar, May 1999
It was in Kandahar that perhaps the last, and most likely the best, opportunity arose for targeting Bin Ladin with cruise missiles before 9/11. In May 1999, CIA assets in Afghanistan reported on Bin Ladin's location in and around Kandahar over the course of five days and nights. The reporting was very detailed and came from several sources. If this intelligence was not "actionable," working-level officials said at the time and today, it was hard for them to imagine how any intelligence on Bin Ladin in Afghanistan would meet the standard. Communications were good, and the cruise missiles were ready. "This was in our strike zone," a senior military officer said. "It was a fat pitch, a home run." He expected the missiles to fly. When the decision came back that they should stand down, not shoot, the officer said, "we all just slumped." He told us he knew of no one at the Pentagon or the CIA who thought it was a bad gamble. Bin Ladin "should have been a dead man" that night, he said.
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch4.htm
From your own link;
Further;
Hoist by your own petard. Sorry, it can't be helped that the facts have a Liberal bias.
Nope, you misread it rather badly. Go back and read it again. Both the first and second misquotes of yours in 2.57 refer to the "CIA Capture Plan of 1998." That option was never presented to the White House.
It is you who have been undone and shown of yourself your bias by your own liberal misread of the document. I see now why you sling accusations. You are projecting onto others your doings. Typical. Is that the best you have? To misread texts and time lines in forming your own opinions? How about trying that again? :-)
http://retiredcoastguard.newsvine.com/_news/2012/10/17/14517445-ray-stevens-mr-president-mr-president-youtube
They should let ray ask the questions.
I've spent enough time with your ridiculous, discredited lies. I leave with a note that you've deliberately ignored from your link, and a note that the Commission DID NOT come to the same conclusion as the Conservative echo chamber;
In other words (they are, after all, trying to be fair), because of two past failures and screw-ups the White House ran scared even though it was their best and closest chance to take out Bin Ladin. You did read the comments of the CIA agent preceding this last quote you used, did you not? Did you bother to check out the dates again?
Gotcha again! Are you so sure that you wanted to use that quote? Why not the preceding material before it that stated that the CIA agreed with the assessment that this was their best chance to take out Bin Ladin? Why avoid that paragraph, huh?
Still supports what I said and I did not get my information from any sort of Conservative anything. They had the chance to take him out and they failed because of two previous screw-ups. The White House ran scared. Again, even Clinton himself stated that he was the closest to take out Bin Ladin and he failed, and that he regretted it. This government report shows the truth about why he regretted his decision. The information here also matches the interview with the CIA agent involved (you know, the interview on the Lib website with the CIA agent who was angry that they had three chances in 36 hours to actually take him out and the White House failed to clear the strike) when the White House refused to give the order. They refused to give the order out of fear when CIA agents had Bin Ladin in their sights.
As you can see, this information rather supports what I said and supports what the CIA agent being interviewed on the Lib website said rather than your position. Want to try again?
Sure. Since you're going to stand there endlessly going "LaLaLaLaLa" with your fingers in your ears I'll leave you with two final words, words that were very costly and prove that two can play this game;
Tora Bora.
Yep, that was the hardest place to get Bin Ladin in. So many caves to strike and how to target the right one while he was in hiding. That does not help your case in the least.
It was not until he moved further into Pakistan and was hidden in one of their military compounds that Obama even had a chance to use Seal Team 6 to get him, after getting intelligence obtained by using methods adopted by the Bush Administration (which Obama said he wouldn't do, by the way). Of course, Obama promised to close Gitmo and failed to do so, so what else is new?
But, even Clinton himself stated on the record that he had the closest and best shot at getting him out of anybody, and regretted failing to get him. Those are on record as Clinton's words. This supports what the document stated and further supports what the CIA agent stated about Clinton's failure to get Bin Ladin.
Want to try again? At least this isn't baseball. Otherwise, it would be three strikes and you are out. :-)
It is even worse when you consider that Tora Bora never would have happened had it not been for Clinton's Kandahar failure.
Romney just proved to America was a pos he really is. Lies, lies and more lies with plenty of cut and paste garbage that's spewed on FOX.
And that little asinine smirk of his tonybeeerm ... while telling us that he "cares" about the middle class and Medicaid. What a POS!
Obama/Biden 2012
Seems the polls have Mitt taking the debate 46% to 22%
To tonybeeerm and the guys like him..... You guys can spin it, grin it and say you win it BUT every news organization has said OBAMA LOST.... Look at the fact check article... almost 2 to 1 in Romney's favor... man.... I can't wait for the news cycle tomorrow... it is going to be a beaut.
I agree. But like BO 2012 said;
Unfortunately I will have to admit that Mittens was the better debater tonight. Pres. Obama looked exhausted. Obviously it is more tiring to run the country than attend debate camp.
I was surprised that Mittens came out so strongly that he is pro middle class. Apparently he learned in debate camp that the average US household makes a lot less than the $200k he previously estimated. I was disappointed that he kept lying about the $716 million in Medicare "cuts"; that money is being spent on closing the drug donut hole. Not surprised that he was rude to the moderator and dismissive of the President. I wonder why he refuses to provide specifics on his tax plan? I'm guessing because the math doesn't work.
The next 2 debates should be interesting.
Yeah, Obama is a crusader for truth....and I poop Gold Nuggets.
The left is having fits! I love it!
What's Vegas giving on cancelling the Biden-Ryan debate?
Romney was acting like a loose Cannon, President Obama shows to be everything Romney is not and that's a leader !!!!!!!!!!!
Obama is tired from running this country? Where did you hear this joke? Obama is tired from going to fund raisers after fund raisers, but I do not think he has done much with regards to running this country, he has not even taken time to listen to a actual intelligence report this year.
Changing a "position" to fit the political climate doesn't bother me... Obama's position of LeGiBiT marriage "evolved" though he said (before elected) 1 man , 1 woman.
RHETORIC is what "saying anything" to be elected is defined:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2pZSvq9bto
Romney said he would meet with Democrats and Republicans the day after the election. It would be a hoot to see that meeting. Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, John Boehner, Mitch McConnell and the Tea Party,
I loved the part of the debate when Obama said some times you need call the parties out when they are not doing their job, so words to that affect. But apparently Obama has never noticed the senate led by Harry Reid has never done a thing. Obama does talk a good game when he has a teleprompter, but his actions do speak louder then words and Romney shoved his actions down his throat.
OMFG! Here come the Obama ass kissers in the MSM with this article..
Not only did Mitt expose what a LIAR BHO is he also exposed what LEFTEST LAP DOGS the MSM are.
I wonder if it ever STINKS when Obama is hiding under the metaphoric dress Of the MSM
Cause I could smell the STENCH last night from my living room in OHIO!
No accountibility left BHO exposing his Arrogance & Incompetence! It showed last night (Thank God)
If all the religious right wingnuts get their way, this country is totally doomed. When people that believe in fairy tales are electing the leader of the free world, there's a problem. And it's no wonder they all believe Romney's blatant lies. If you are willing to buy into the existence of something as ludicrous as an omnipotent god, it shouldn't be hard to pull the wool over your eyes (they're already closed anyway).
Romney - "Number two, I'll take programs that are currently good programs but I think could be run more efficiently at the state level and send them to the state."
Where does that money come from? The states are not flush with cash. If the federal government pays the states to take over these unspecified programs then there is no savings. This sounds good, but makes no sense. No savings here. What would happen is, currently good programs would be eliminated.
Tony- and Obama has been telling the truth the last four years????????
Get off you knees and have some self respect- clean off your mouth.
As I remember in 2008 Obama lying his ass of to get elected as well.
Is Gitmo still open??????????? Hello??????????? The list goes onto over 60 Obama promises not fulfilled.
Obama has the presidency and done nothing with it. And that is Romney's fault?????????
Blame obama and yourself for voting for him. not the other guy.
DaveM87764---- Post # 3.16 ROFLMAO @ "get off your knees"
So funny
If only we could get Obamas whores in the MSM to get off their knees as well!
I can't tell if those LEFTEST LIARS in the MSM are praying to Obama or giving him a "Lewinski" lol
Love2troops
I would tell you to go back to the Fox News commentary page, but Fox News had to take down their comments on most political articles due to the huge outpouring of hatred, racism, bigotry, misogynous, and homophobic redneck retard speak the internet has ever seen.
Kind of sad to see your kind has evolved enough to figure out how to operate the address bar in your browser window so you can migrate to here. I was hoping you all would die off like the Dodo Birds on the island of Mauritius.
Last night everyone saw why they should not vote for Obama!
Great job Romney!!
Yeah, great job Romney - Debates are easy to win, when you don't let facts or convictions get in the way of your facts and convictions.
...Guess if Romney wins, we'll know that this country really did miss Nixon after all.
Anj,
You mean like the lies Obama burped out?
I give kudos to Romney for a bravo performance last night but lets not forget Mr. Obama has a day job and Mr. Romney has all the time in the world to practice. If he doesn't win in November, Mr. Romney does have a future on Broadway. This man can remember his lines.
enjoy,
You mean like a day job of campaigning? Today's he's in Denver campaigning...tomorrow is another city... If that is what you are referring to as a day job, then I"m afraid the American people aren't getting their money's worth out of Obama...
Then step right up and pay for some Romney BS buffet.
G. Bud...
I'm quite full after having 4 years of Obama BS...
Debates are easy when you don't let facts or convictions get in the way of your facts and convictions.
Since when did Mitt the Twitt get any convictions?
Some people might suggest that all the broken promises from the 2008 campaign were the same thing as Obama telling lies to get elected. So I guess the Obama mantra of tell the people what they want to hear to get you elected is in liberals minds demonstrating conviction? Spin, blame, excuses, just more of the same from liberals.
Hey... There is eager optimism for a candidate who believes they can do a job, and then find that the job they want to do is being "C#@K Blocked" by a bunch of pissed off Republicans who are more eager to discredit the new President than they are to work on the country's problems.
Then there's Mitt... "I believe a woman should choose. I believe abortion is wrong. I'm going to cut everyone's taxes. Sorry, had to raise everyone's taxes." Mitt Romney, the guy no one can actually pin an actual stance on because he tends to stand on both sides of every issue.
Just last night, "I'm going to repeal Obamacare...., BUT... I'm going to keep the pieces that make sense?" What? Are you repealing it or are your keeping it, most of it, part of it, or what? What exactly are you saying?
How about his tax speel? "I'm going to keep the Bush tax cuts, I'm going to give Americans another 20% tax cut, I'm going to cut the deficit, I'm going to create 12 million new jobs, I'm..." Uh, your plan doesn't make much sense, how is that going to work? "I'll be working closely with Congress AFTER I'm elected to decide which loopholes we'll be cutting.
(Spoiler Alert: I'll bet if Romney gets elected, there's going to be a whole lot of pissed off Democratic Senators and Congressmen who may make a 2008 Republican decision to "C#@K Block" everything that Romney puts before them. If you think Obama hasn't accomplished anything, wait until Romney gets into office
Once last thing. Estate Taxes. Another Tax that Romney is going to eliminate. Any poor folks here or struggling middle class people here worried about the Estate Taxes their heirs will have to pay on their Estate after they die? Me neither. For a Rich guy like Romney, who has a boatload of children, and has worked hard his entire life to find every tax loophole that he could, and hides his money offshore??? Yeah, doing away with the Estate Tax is just Mitt Romney taking care of Mitt Romney. Way to be self-serving!
Yes, if Romney is elected, I hope the Democrats in Congress give him the same respect, consideration and cooperation that the Republicans have given President Obama. I would even suggest a meeting/get-together on the day of his inauguration to plan their strategy just like the Republicans did on 20 January 2009.
What a fun cycle we're about to start. New President comes in, the losing party in Congress and Senate filibusters on every single actionable item, until the next election cycle comes up. THEN... The losing party can point to the President and say, "You're horrible. You didn't fix a thing". THEN, when they get their guy elected and the other guys become the losing party, the other guys get to be the filibustering obstructionists.
What a great way to get things done! I have so much hope for our country.
Jeez, we should just split this country in two: The redneck, gun loving, bomb everything, hillbilly sister marrying, party down the middle and in the south.
...And the rational, reasonable people on either side of the lunatics on both the east and west coasts to prevent the drooling knuckle-draggers from launching an invasion on the Atlantic or Pacific Ocean (the least we can do is prevent them from harming themselves).
In the words of Napolean Dynomite:
Idiots! Gaawd!!!
I don't really like it either, but if the Republican's get away with their behavior over the last almost 4 years, get rewarded for what they have done, they won't hestitate to do it again the next time they don't get their way in an election.
Then again, with Citizens United and other things the Republicans may do, we may never see a Democrat in office again and the middle class will wither away under their trickle down economics (witness what this policy has done to the middle class already).
I agree...
I think the most disingenuous moment from last night's debate was Mitt Romney's statement about how he's going to permanently repeal the Federal Estate Tax.
Most low income and middle-class people don't worry about the Estate Tax. We're too busy trying to hold onto the jobs we have while watching our home values erode, our 401K's evaporate, and our prospects of receiving our Social Security diminish. All while the benefits we receive at our place of employment grower sparser and sparser.
Estate Tax? Is that even on anyone's wish list?
Apparently it's on Mitt's list. He is a rich guy, he has vast off-shore holdings, he also has a lot of children who will need to inherit every last dime they can off their old man. So, Mitt's going to repeal the Estate Tax for his very own benefit.
Don't you feel better for America already? A guy running for President is going to make sure that the things that really matter to him, as an individual, will be tackled during his first term.
Another thing I found funny was the number of times Mitt said, "Oh, well, that cost is going to be transferred over to the states". Like Education. If I'm not mistaken, there are many states in our country right now that are hurting even more than the Federal government is hurting.
It's almost like a guy who's working at McDonald's saying, I can't really afford my own education, so I'm going to have the guy on the onramp with the cardboard sign pay for my education.
Good Luck with that.
The downward spiral of our country continues...
Romney has set a new standard for political fabrication. He stood in front of 75m Americans and said he wasn't going to give tax breaks to the rich. With a straight face no less. Is he confused on his own tax plan? Obama let him get away with it. Will a new Romney show up at the next debate and catch Obama off guard again? Possible. Like a snake shedding its skin. Could he be a shape-shifter? The American people,Republicans and Democrats, should be very wary of this man,Mr.Romney.
Amen enjoythemoment
There's nothing real to this man. At all. Why isn't the rest of America running, screaming from this guy. As I watched the Debate, I saw our President giving careful, considered reasonable responses to this leering jack-o-lantern of a man. The President did appear confused. How can a person debate someone who can change his stance on any subject at any moment in time? The only real way to beat a pathological liar is to tell even bigger whoppers than the liar himself.
If Romney gets elected, I'll guarantee most middle-class and lower income Republicans are going to come to regret their decision in a couple of years.
Romney = The continued looting of the Lower/Middle Class to benefit the Upper Class.
In addition to his smoke and mirrors crap Romney is a rude ass. Shut up Mittens and let the POTUS finish what he's saying - this isn't Fox news you're on.
That's exactly what I thought. To tell you the truth, I really don't like the way the narrator kept letting Romney continue to run-off over time without stopping him.
OBAMA/BIDEN....2012!!!!
To tell you the truth, I really don't like the way the narrator kept letting Romney continue to run-off over time without stopping him.
As opposed to Obama talking over the moderator and shaking his finger at him like he's scolding him for trying to tell the President he is out of time...
As usual, someone like you completely missed the point. The moderator should have controlled Romney, President Obama conceded to his ill mannered ass a bunch of times.
You sound like the Seattle Mike off the 4Runner Forum?
REALLY? Barry talked over BOTH the moderator & Mitt.... he ran over EVER SINGLE time segment...... and you think Mitt was rude?
My POCKETS think BARRY is the rude one here.... he cost me money
You`re a smart guy.....why is it ok for Barry to do the same? All in what you wan`t to see, just like your weight scale for example, you wan`t it to say 160 lbs, Barry will tell you it says 160 lbs, but it says 260...its ok, we understand.
If you don't interrupt Obama his answers never end and never stay on topic. In fact Obama was constantly going off topic because he knew he was being pummeled by someone with experience leading.
I love how all the cry baby LEFTEST ANTI MILITARY Obama Lemmings are crying foul!
Obama spoke 5 more minutes than Romney. And Jim did give Mitt the smack-down a couple of times.
What you DISHONEST- NO ID VOTING-ERIC HOLDER State suing Obama Democrats are pissed about is this.. When Obama is off teleprompter he doesn't have SH*T to say...
He rambled, used class warfare, and asked the commentator to
change the subject" hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Mitt Romney agreed it's "fair" that millionaires and billionaires like himself pay a lower tax rate than many middle-class families do.
That's straight from Romney. On "60 Minutes" this week, he actually agreed that it's "fair" that he got to pay a lower tax rate on the millions he made last year than a worker making $50,000 paid. Why? "It's the right way to encourage economic growth."
As anyone who's been paying attention over the past few decades knows, Romney
is flat-out wrong. Tax breaks for millionaires and tax hikes for middle-class
families lead to endless deficits, not economic growth or job creation. That's why
President Obama is fighting to ensure that millionaires like Romney pay their
share.
Romney has defied a decades-long precedent by only releasing two years of his tax returns. That leaves a lot of questions unanswered, but the tax returns he has released show that he benefits from loopholes in the tax code that give an advantage to millionaires and billionaires. So it's no surprise that Romney doesn't want to reform the tax code so that all Americans pay a fair share -- he wants to keep rewarding millionaires and billionaires at the expense of the middle class.
What slayed me was the bragging about donating 13% to charity. As a good Mormon Mitt is required to tithe 10% or he doesn't become a God when he dies.
Giving money to the Mormon Cult IS NOT THE SAME AS "giving it to charity." The Mormon cult is a business masquerading as a restoration of Christianity by introducing polytheism and polygamy. They got rid of the polygamy but they haven't gotten rid of the polytheism yet.
To girl number 20- Unfortunatley, Mr. Romney can claim his "tithing" as a charitable deduction. What I would like to know is if he gives the full 10%,the way a good little GOD should? And just to clarify, that is 10% of his MONTHLY income not his yearly income. Oh and one more little tid-bit I thought you'd like to know,Mormons did'nt REALLY get rid of polygamy, they believe that you (men) can have as many wives as you want after you die!
and what did Obama give to charities?
Obama is also a millionaire who paid 20% in taxes last year; far lower than the middle class.
Actually, the Mormon church requires 20% if you want to get into the top level of heaven. Yes, they have multiple levels. Lower levels are for heathens and regular folks that don't qualify for hell, but the top level is where you become a god like they believe our current god did (he was born as a man on the Planet Kolob according to the LDS church). Yes, the top level of heaven is pay per view!
There are a whole slew of other goofy ideas in this cult/corporation. Read up on it and decide for yourself if anybody that buys this crap is Presidential material.
Romney had to NOT take certain deductions last year in order to get his taxes up to 13%. By his own words that makes him unqualified to be President.
So untrue. He very much wants to reform the Tax Code. Weren't you listening either to this debate or to the VP debate? Were you aware that the current Tax Code gives unfair advantages to a substantial portion of the middle and lower classes? I personally know many members of the middle and lower classes who pay zero effective taxes year after year.
Some are exempt. Some aren't but they still have zero Federal taxes pulled from their paychecks. Others do pay taxes during the year but get most all back at tax time. So, did they really pay taxes if they get most all of it or all of it back at the end of the tax year?
And, in addition, because of the setup of the Tax Code these same people who get no withholdings and pay no State taxes get returns of thousands of dollars each and every year, with no fraud or taking creative deductions whatsoever, and with no deductions taken but the Standard Deduction. These people not only effectively don't pay taxes when tax return time comes around (even though some do technically pay taxes the rest of the year, they get it all back), many of them effectively get paid to be taxed, too!
Please tell us how that is fair. Sounds more like forms of wealth redistribution to me.
Yes, I've watched both debates...at no point did Romney or Ryan give any details of what's in their alleged "plan."
So, why would we trust their words on the subject?
There was no time given to give details. All that they had time for was to state that they wanted to reform the Tax Code and why they wanted to do it. But, they did state their reasons for wanting to reform the Tax Code. Must not have been listening very hard.
Ah, so you're in the EXCUSES business.
Why hasn't the R/R ticket given any details in the MONTHS since Romney became the presumptive then official nominee?
That's pretty simple, actually.
Romney has to first be president before he can pull anything off. He must work across aisles to get both parties in Congress to agree to specific Tax Code changes. He has the experience to reach across the aisles and has done it before.
But, without actually being in the pit and knowing which parts each party will be willing to modify in order to reform the Tax Code, he would end up making false promises about specifics he would be unable to get both parties to agree to and would become a liar like Obama in such an event. I think he, unlike Obama, cares enough to want to avoid that.
Not for nothing, ROMNEY kicked OBAMA'S ass. Way to go MITT.
Not really. Mitt contradicted himself several times, spouted alot of debunked right wing talking points and came off as buffoonish and condescending. Obama actually presented some intelligent discourse and looked presidential. He also spanked him on health care and tied together all his lack of details quite nicely.
LMAO.. Really Rational Randy? Wormney kicked Obama's ass? OK.. Please he is arrogant, rude and lacks the fortitude to be honest. HE will have to raise taxes in order to do what he wants. He had NO specifics again.. Romneycare is the granddaddy for The Affordable Care Act.
Mittens didn't do what he needed to do tonight. Tax cuts for the rich. War in Iran, the repubelicant drum beat goes on. America is done with the GOP and their tax shell game. The GOP created the messes we are in. Just fess up to Mittens, et.al.
On what planet? Governor Romney was rude, interrupted the President multiple times, and showed no respect for the moderator. I don't care what side of the campaign you're supporting... that was pretty classless.
Irational,and then you woke up .LMAO.
We'll see at election time. Democraps; be afraid; be very afraid.
Yep Randy, in the totally rude department, Mitt Romney showed his expertise. RWNJ's are claiming a victory. Got news for you. It's still Mitt Romney we are talking about. The guy who changes his story at the drop of a hat. He still never answered how he is going to cut taxes, raise military spending and grow the economy. Why? Because it can't be done. If you buy into this bs he spouted out tonight, you're going to be disappointed.
Romney thinks he's still in the "boardroom" dismantling companies, and daring anyone to tell him he can't, he was very disrespectful by continuing to run off at the mouth way over his alloted time, cutting the President short, pushing himself out there like he's the President's boss, and a couple of times trying to chastise the President, like he's some CEO of some company and the President should just listen to him.
Was it just me or did I hear Romney denounce Obamacare where he told Univision he was the "grandfather" of it??????
Flip flop ....
Obama/Biden 2012
Randy - Ever delusional
I have to wonder if I saw the same debate as all these people on here being so critical of Romney. Clearly he command the debate. Obama looked meek and out of touch with just how bad his record is. Romney gave plenty of specifics and examples of what he proposes. For either candidate to go into anymore detail would have taken 3 days.
Romney counterd everyone of Obamas attacks, and hopefully will no longer be defined by the liberal media whom despise him so much.
What specifics? If anything, Obama tied together quite nicely Romney's lack of specifics on all of his plans.
But back to your initial point, which is precisely the problem for Romney. The reason people see different things is that there are very few undecideds left. It's going to take a miracle to move the needle the amount Romney needs to move it in the key states he needs to move it because of that.
yea - if lying is kicking ass!
Layton, the difference is Romney favors implementation at the state level, not at the federal level like Obama does. Maybe PBS blocked out that part of the debate you were watching, but it was broadcast on the channel I was watching....
Even the swooners over on MSNBC are saying their guy lost. You delusional sheep really need to step away from the kool-aid.
irRational Randy, do you really think this bore fest of a debate swayed any voters? I don't. I guess the polls will tell.
How? He didn't "debate".... he manically yapped about what amounted to a whole lot of nothing and made little if any sense.
However, of you call being rude, lying, flip flopping and not being able to understand your own position or explain how you would implement your policies...then he did win.....at be having like a a horse's patootie.
Toxic ...
Really? and he's denounced my Governor for seeking welfare reforms at the State level??? Holy Hannah ... do you all not get that the States have been doing this for years? Georgia has a block program for Medicaid. All States have the option to do what they will with Medicaid $. Capitatated.... FFS ... the option has ALWAYS been with the State!
Obama/Biden 2012
LEHRER: No, I mean, do you support Simpson-Bowles?
ROMNEY: I have my own plan. It's not the same as Simpson- Bowles. But in my view, the president should have grabbed it. If you wanted to make some adjustments to it, take it, go to Congress, fight for it.
********************************
I guess that is a 'no'.
The President could not "grab it". Ryan and all the republicans on the Simpson- Bowles committee voted it down. Ryan should have grabbed it. What a lying creep.
Gilroy-- Obama has contradicted himself from campainging in 2008 to present.
None of his promises have been fulfilled. He has been a bad president
There he goes again, contradictions and flip flopping. He's making me dizzzzzzzzy, going back and forth depending on whom he's talking to.
He has proposed making the Bush tax cuts permanent for all income levels -- then cutting all rates by an additional 20 percent. He would also repeal the alternative minimum tax and permanently repeal the estate tax.
The non-partisan Tax Policy Center concluded that Romney's tax plan would cost $4.8 trillion over
We all heard the President say this to Romney and what did Romney say he denied it over and over. What a liar he is. Romney even went into a story about if you say something enough people will believe it because the President kept saying this is what Romney will do, add 5 trillion dollars to the deficit. Romney is such a pathelogical liar, his need for power is overwhelming. I wonder if his wife knows what a liar he is, cause how can someone respect a habitual liar.
Our President summed it up tonight in one of his very first statements …
“His big, bold plan is never mind!”
God loves a Terrier … and Mitt was that little yapping thing
that would not shut up and always sought the last word! God loves you, Mittens,
the country does not!
“Occasionally you’ve got to say NO!” Thank you Mr.President. I am saying NO to Mitt
Romney!
Obama/Biden 2012
you must have fallen asleep... Barry got FACED
Steve
Romney lied half of stuff he said
Romney smirked, smiled, and tried to present a good game ... but he was so SCHOOOLED by the President! Facts are facts ... and Romney had none!
Obama/Biden 2012
And succeeded.
Keep drinking the koolaid, Barry needs you for his complete take over of America
Steve... maybe in your book. Not in mine. President Obama did a very good job of exposing the greed, arrogance and ranting that clearly defines the repubs mindset.
Romney is NOT on the side of the middle class at all. His snide comments tonight and his 47% comment weeks ago TELL THE REAL TRUTH. Romney is a snake in the grass.
President Obama is a crusader for the "REAL AMERICANS" who populate the the middle class.
Sorry Steve. It's not a high school football game we're talking about here. Romney is the one who is going to get "faced" when he will be asked specifics on the garbage he spewed tonight. I've got a tenner that says he changes his mind on most of them.
Barry got his ass handed to him
Guess you missed the scores.... Obama 22%.... Romney 46%.......
That's the ballgame in my highschool..........
John Kennedy did not design the Saturn V rocket or even describe how we would get to the moon...... all he had was the VISION to go there......
A smart President, allows those that know best how to do things to get the job done. Mitt has VISION, all Barry has had are EXCUSES
Steve-446003
Trust me, I review scores. I'm a football FANATIC! Scores/polls on a debate? PUH!
Mitt made his point. He smirked, he smiled and he LIED! He distanced himself from Romneycare which he stated he "grandfathered" when speaking with Univision. He agreed with the President's vision more so than he denoounced. What a little squirmy worm!!
Obama/Biden 2012
Obama/Biden 2012
Mittens may be good at acting but I DO NOT TRUST HIM. No Way, No How. Nothing is going to change that. He has too much history behind him to know he flip-flops to whichever direction the political winds blow and to me he showed that tonight. So he may be a good actor but I'll stick with President Obama, thank you.
WOW! did you even watch?? obama sounds like a broken record same
old bla bla bla talkie talkie im gonna do this im gonna do that but yet
whats he done BIG FAT ZERO lol open you're eyes
Layton- YOU GO GIRL ! I am from Utah too, (though not originally.) And am glad to see another Ut. supporter of the POTUS on this vine. It's just too bad that so many other people in our state are Mormon sheep who will vote for Romney ONLY because he IS MORMON!
Blue - does that surprise you? That is like saying that people will vote for Obama because he is black.
I will vote for the guy that I believe will turn this country around, Obama needs to show people how he will be able to get congress to work together.
Steve-446003. Mitt Romney is NO John F. Kennedy.
I will say it in a couple of works----SLICK WILLIE---THE SNAKE OIL SALESMAN
I'm wondering what undecided voters thought of the debate.
I was waiting for Romney to explain his plan(s) on what/where he would cut etc but never did. My major issue: is a millionaire REALLY concerned about me, the middle class?
Answer, yes he is. In a debate, you only have so much time to explain. Then you have to move on to the next point. Sad because he could have convinced you.
The answer to that is a big, fat NO! Despite what he said about his love for the middle class, Romney has no idea what the middle class is other than those 47% that won't vote for him.
Did you catch when Romney talked about poor people then quickly switched to low income?
22% Barry........ 46% Mitt.............
Same as the election................
He's been campaigning for almost a year. WHEN is he going to give specifics?
if he said what he would do, the libbies would come up with all the reasons that they can spin to show how it wouldn't work.
truth is, he was smart enough to keep out the details to keep the opponent from being able to trash them.
smart move!
Didn't he say middle class was $200,000-$250,000?
Romney has no respect for the moderator, no respect for 47% of Americans and he thinks we are TOO stupid to get a calculator and do the math on his tax proposal. LOL
I couldn't agree more with that statement.
You might need some new batteries for your calculator....
Mitt is right, if Barry had not SAVED so much money with all of this plans, we'd be $25 TRILLION in debt now
And Barry had respect and didn't go on and on? LOL at you and your quivering minions.
No respect for the moderator...were you watching a different debate??? Barry rambled over his fair share of time spewing lies and made up numbers just like he did in 2008.
It's how you're supposed to debate. GET A CLUE! Romney took advantage, tried to get his point across, all while Obama had nothing to say. HENCE he couldn't interrupt. Nothing is %$@!ing fair in this world, get the &%^ over it, learn how debating works.
the moderator had to help Obama get his point across at some points. He was sided with Obama and tried to help retard all he could. You're just all in denial that Romney was the better spoken, prepared, and IMO presidential candidate by calling him a cheater and liar, all while you @!$%#s have been lied to the past FOUR YEARS.
Obama is letting Romney dig his own political grave......and tonight he got off to a great start.
no kidding matt mitt kicked slow bamas ass too funny
and these retards think obummer won stupidty at very high levels
Mitt Romney was smirk all night and red eyes by the end of the night. He quoted many untruths. I realize facts don't matter to him but still people will check and once they realize he lied no one will like it.
Yeah, he did smirk a lot.
Poorly run debate.... exactly what I expected performance-wise...incredible "lip smacking" power by the Mittster....
Both Candidates did well...Personally, I am for Obama...but both candidates were on topic and there was no big mudslinging like the last election!
Romney came off as rude and arrogant and still had no explanation for how he's going to fix anything. Just bold claims. It won't affect his base though. I have heard it personally that they'd "vote for a dog turd" before they'd vote for Obama. Eloquent as always... I just hope it fires up the undecided voters.
Barry was the ONLY person that did not yeild the floor when time was called & INSULTED the moderator with his "5 seconds" statement......
Steve.. Like you never went over time before? You and the GOp sheep are jokes. Put down your 4inch Iphoney and pull you head out of your ass and the GOP's ass.. They are leading America into WW3 if Mittens is elected. I say NO MORE Fn WARS!
And Barry has had the opportunity to exit Afghanistan, yet he HAS NOT & more lives have been lost............... All he has to do is say "get them out"
Steve: Did you watch the same debate I did???
Such stupidity. All Bush had to do is NOT send them.
OBAMA/BIDEN....2012!!!!
Umm, in case you haven't noticed, we are letting them take over for our withdrawl in 2014. You see, if he just pulled them out, then Republicans would start crying about "cutting and running." Much like they did when we started to withdraw from Iraq.
Actually, Romney repeatedly talked over the moderator. It was extremely rude.
Just one example:
Romney - "The second topic, which is you said you get a deduction for taking a plant overseas. Look, I've been in business for 25 years. I have no idea what you're talking about. I maybe need to get a new accountant.
LEHRER: Let's...
ROMNEY: But -- but the idea that you get a break for shipping jobs overseas is simply not the case.
(CROSSTALK)
ROMNEY: What we do have right now is a setting where I'd like to bring money from overseas back to this country."
***************************************
I wonder if he was talking about bring back money from the Cayman Islands? Lehrer could have reined in both of them a bit better, but Romney was very aggressive and talked over the top of Lehrer several times. In this exchange, Lehrer could only get in one word.
So did Obama--several times. And, Obama went over time by more than 2 minutes.
All Clinton had to do was try and execute bin-Laden when he had him in his grasp, not cut the intelligence budget, and not repeat the claim (before Bush ever took office) that he was certain that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. No bin-Laden, no Al-Qaeda, no Twin Towers, no up-front reason to send them in the first place.
He was making reference to the Tax Code provision for double-taxation of corporations. If a company has foreign holdings, even after paying the initial corporate taxes for the privilege of having its headquarters in the US, a corporation is then taxed again for bringing in any moneys earned overseas.
Many companies leave the money offshore unless they can offset that with loopholes like GE has for over a decade. GE has almost consistently paid zero effective corporate taxes because of loopholes they can exploit, whereas others are taxed to near-unprofitability and make decisions to leave the country because of the heavy taxation in the US just to stay afloat.
Facts just aren't your thing, are they dcpyle? Corporate profits are at record highs, immediately destroying your talk radio meme;
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/17/345603/corporate-profits-50-years-main-street-struggles/
I do not listen to talk radio, lib. But I see you are fond of relying on lib lies for your data. Besides that, I never said anything here about corporate profits, only why they have not brought a lot of that money back into the country. See the Tax Code, lib. Foreign earnings are taxed if US companies bring them back into the US. This is in addition to the taxes they pay if they are headquartered in the US.
And so our friend dcpyle is reduced to name calling. My work here is done.
Bye.
Buh-bye, John B. Yet, it was you who first began to sling insinuations and essentially called me a liar by repeating the insinuation, and insisting again, that I listen to talk radio when I clearly stated that I do not. It became rather obvious, after that performance, that you were a lib. Otherwise, you would never have slung the insinuations and would never have repeated your other insinuation that I was getting my information from talk radio shows because slinging insinuations is just what libs often do when cornered on their 'good facts' as opposed to 'real facts.'
Another thing that libs do is fail to address important questions on their own. You failed to look over the Tax Code and address that.
So, what I did wasn't really calling names but labeling you accurately. The next thing that libs do when confronted on their use of 'good facts' rather than 'real facts' is to flee the scene. You just helped identify your political leanings further in three actions often taken by libs. Thanks for doing so. Now we all know.
Ok so Romney's plan(s) are?
A President needs to have the VISION for the future, it takes more than ONE MAN to pass the legislation needed to get this country moving in the right direction.
If Barry is so good at being President, why has he been such a fAILURE?
Obama's has not worked, Romney's will.
Only MSNBC tells people Romney has no plan.
Well I got that his plan is to not raise taxes on small business. If you were listening when you raise taxes on samll businesses such as Trump and about 80% of the other companies that employ more than half the nation they don't hire people to work.
If you were also listening he said when speaking of making changes in loopholes and tax breaks to the rich there were several different plans that could be used and he was willing to work with Congress to decide the best way to put those in place. I don't know about you but his whole attitude is what will bring both Republicans and Democrats together so they can work together. Romney did a great job so don't bash him tonight.
Obama blew over 90 billion on green energy crony campaign contributors. I am giving old Mitt a chance to do better. Hell I could do better.
Earn,Romney's plans are ___________________________________________________________________.
And that's all of them in a nutshell.
I guess these must be the secret and complicated plans that it'll take too long to get into - just trust us...
I think what Steve is saying is that Romney is having a "vision." But seriously Steve, if you are now saying that it takes more than one man to pass legislation, then why are you not hold all Republican majority in congress more responsible for Obama's "failures." I would think they had to pass a job act, in order for him to sign it.
Romney laid out his plan very simply in 5 steps....multiple times people. I find it amusing that Barry and the dems. want specifics on Romney's plan. Who was asking Obama "exactly" how he would live up to all the lies he told the American people in 2008? Who was asking Obama to explain his "change" theories?
Nearly Militatnt you may want to know that for the past 2 years Congress has been majority Democrat. That is a real fact unlike the NBC facts
Jdbird: "Only MSNBC tells people Romney has no plan"
And only people who refuse to think for themselves listen to what the media tells them.
Romney is the one that has told people he has no plan...by failing to tell anyone what it is in 18 months of campaigning.
tina: Your do nothing has has only passed things like renaming post offices and repealing ACA. You have the worst record in 60 years. Your house is where the budget starts and you have produced nothing.
Tina-Nearly Militatnt you may want to know that for the past 2 years Congress has been majority Democrat. That is a real fact unlike the NBC facts-
Wow,that would be a happy surprise if it were true.But its NOT.Though maybe if the country gets lucky it will be after Nov.6th.
It was true for the last two years of Bush's term and for the first two years of Obama's term. Obama still got nothing done but the faulty Obamacare legislation that Congress pushed through without even reading it!
Baloney...here's a whole BUNCH of things President Obama has accomplished. http://whattheheckhasobamadonesofar.com/
One of the most amusing things about the Conservative propaganda factory is that consistency of thought or principle isn't even an issue. President Obama hasn't done anything AND his radical agenda is on the verge of destroying the America we know and love.
You can't have it both ways...they can't both be true. Of course in this case as with most Conservative "positions" they're on all sides at once and ALL OF THEM are lies.
Oh, sure he got a few things done but nothing of major importance to the overall health of the country. How about these?
Economy?
Jobs?
Stopping massive rate hikes on the healthy by insurance companies? Obamacare stops them for those with chronic conditions but the healthy get jacked.
Cutting the deficit in half?
Cutting spending instead of keeping over $1 Trillion deficits per year for the last four years?
The record speaks for itself. He got nothing done of major importance to this country in this economic crisis that could take another major downturn anytime now.
Is the economy still hemorraghing 750,000 jobs per month?
Has it grown for over 30 months straight following the worst recession since the 1930s?
As for the debt and deficit, blame the Republicans...they created the vast majority of it.
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
http://zfacts.com/p/1195.html
The unemployment figures are not accurate. The economy still is shedding jobs as a fantastic rate. It is just that this hemorrhaging has slowed down a small bit for the moment. With the world economy on the verge of collapse, even our own still is teetering on the edge. Gasoline prices are up and rising because of more than a dozen refinery shutdowns because they cannot meet the new EPA rules under the Obama Administration.
And, Obama and clan are deficit spending more in four years than did Bush in eight. I checked the records. For example, Bush's year 2007 deficit was $168.2 billion, and that was with two fronts of a war (or, as some say, two wars) raging. Compare that to Obama's more than $1 Trillion deficit for a year and the same for all three of the other years of his current term. America cannot afford any more of such horrendous deficit spending. A heavy price will be paid by the economy and yet Obama and clan in the Senate keep pushing for a higher debt ceiling and more spending???
By the way, were you aware that the National Debt also was over $5 Trillion when Clinton left office? Bet you weren't.
I'm sorry the facts are in conflict with the "truth" you heard in the Conservative echo chamber. What color is the sky in Glennbeckistan?
I wouldn't know. I usually hate talk radio. I also don't listen to Glenn Beck and I never have.
I would rather look at the actual statistical material published by the Federal Government and its offices, and compare that with other materials to get a feel for what really is going on.
Then, I follow that up with statements from both conservatives and libs and see what they have to say and/or what they leave out.
Finally, I look between the lines because you can find some interesting stuff there at times, for sure.
I looked at the actual financial report for 2007, the last period before the recession. Bush's deficit for that year was only $168.2 billion, not the over $1 Trillion that Obama did in his first year of his first term, followed by the same and more for each consecutive year.
Why did not the deficit reach as high as Obama's in spite of the fact that we had two wars (it actually was one war with two fronts, but for the sake of argument, we'll say "two wars") raging? Ask yourself that question and think about this. Check the actual government statistics for yourself, for starters. Or, would you rather just believe Obama's lies that it was all Bush's fault that Obama ran high deficits his entire first term?
The truth is, the deficit spending increased when the Dems took office, at the end of Bush's last term, and had a chance to work the system. When Obama got in it was carte blanche and we ended up with over $1 Trillion deficits for each year of Obama's current term in a row. America cannot afford that kind of deficit spending. Do you agree or disagree?
John B in Iowa,
You might want to look at this "politically neutral" website and compare with your "Zfacts" BS:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57400369-503544/national-debt-has-increased-more-under-obama-than-under-bush/
This website's information is more accurate and closer to the truth.
And, finally, here is where we are at in terms of the National Debt as of October 16, 2012, at 7:27 PM MST:
$ 16,199,574,839,671.31
Go here: http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/
Click the "See the U.S. Public Debt to the Penny" button on the middle of the page if you think I am misquoting or misreferencing in some way.
But, as I said above, and which statement is accurate, Obama deficit-spent in one term what Bush did in two terms.
Great story Bro!!
Your lack of credibility increases as you claim to be balanced in your opinion yet leave the massive cost of two wars out of your calculation, just as did the Bush Administration.
Hey, I only cited the government statistics and cited CBS. Just remember that denial is not a river in Egypt.
Misuse of statistics is a method of lying, not a valid excuse.
Cya.
See, lib? You now show your slip at every turn. I misused nothing. I simply cited accurately. I presented no statistics of my own. Because you don't like what the statistics show, you have to sling accusations of dishonesty and have to sling insinuations rather than deal with the Government statistics or the 'impartial' statements/claims of the news media showing doubled deficit spending on the part of Obama.
Take a look at the data yourself, using government sources and the 'impartial' news media. Just remember that the news media--the mainstream media--have consistently supported Obama in just about all he does. Yet, they finally realized that they could no longer hide Obama's over $1 Trillion deficit (every year of his term) spending from the public without talking about it.
Go and check the Budget Office's figure for yourself. Look at and read over the entire 2007 statement for yourself. You, too, will see the $ 168.2 billion deficit figure for fiscal year 2007, which, as we all know, preceded the recession and was right smack in the middle of raging war.
Do it! I dare you... :-)
Anyone notice how Obama could not look Romney in the eye? All the time he was looking down.
Obama paid a bunch of bankrupt green companies 90 billion dollars! God no wonder we are in horrible debt.
Romney did a great job and instead of having the attitude that I won and we do things my way. That is what will bring Congress to the table and be able to work together. THey should work together to come up with ways to close loopholes and make other cuts. It was great!
What debate were you watching?
Just keep drinking the koolaid lakerman2........ it always has been up to the conservatives to save the nation..........
Steve - go take your meds and go to bed - you are getting very boring.
Isn't it interesting that Republicans in every election talk about "making this country great again." Yet in the last 30 years there has been more time with a Republican President than a Democrat, and they STILL haven't made it great again.
Conservatives. Rethuglicans is what's bringing this country down. It's been going on for thirty years and Americans are getting fed up with it. They are the American Taliban. Your hero Shrub was a lying coniving little weasel who should be tried for treason. Him and his buddy Dickless Cheney. If these are the Rethuglican Party's idea of leadership this country is in deep sh!!. Hey there Gorgy Boy where are the WMD's. I bet if they were up his a$$ he could find them.
Yeh right Steve, pull your head out of Romney's Azz. It was Clinton that took us from a deficit to surplus. Bet you can't tell us who drove our economy back into a ditch!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Idiot.
How could anybody look Romney in the eye without getting disgusted and vomiting.
I could have sworn that Michelle was trying to hit on Romney,..must be his CONFIDENCE.
Rich - 298746
You are an ignorant piece of work aren't you. I can't wait to laugh my ass off at people like you when Romney wins this election.
I guarantee you will not be laughing Nov 7th. Truth hurts don't it. And Romney is still disgusting.
Really should study history better........ Bill took over with a REPUBLICAN Congress & rode the wave of the DOTCOM boom......
Like 2008?
It was also Clinton who started the legislation that caused the housing collapse. Quotas for who should get loans were forced on banks to make them give loans to people who didn't meet the qualifications. That didn't get the same news coverage for some reason.
TheAustin - You are only half right that then President Clinton started the legislation that caused the housing collapse. The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, according to most research that I have done, was the true initial cause of the collapse. All three were Republicans. And YES, Clinton signed the bill. It was the initial act that started the deregulation of the banking industry. It was crafted to cover CitiBank and Travelers merger that was basically against regulations at the time. As an Independent, I blame both polictal parties in power at the time. Both parties have had ample opportunity to correct this situation and have not done nearly enough to do so.
He raided Social Security and used an alternate accounting method to make it look like a surplus. It wasn't, in reality. Social Security now will fail after 2030 partially as a result of raiding the Social Security Trust.
Here was the total National Debt as of January 9, 2001 (Clinton about to leave office):
$ 5,725,066,298,944.04
Source: http://treasurydirect.gov/NP/NPGateway
Some surplus!
The cold, hard, reality is that American government has been debt-spending for a very long time. Every Administration from the beginning has been involved in deficit spending. Anybody who tells you otherwise is selling Hope and Change--or something else.
The problem was that the country gave to Bush in his last two years a Democrat-controlled Congress. They undid what he was working for. They also ignored him when he kept trying to tell them that if they did not reign in Fannie and Freddie that the economy would take a nosedive. The Democrat-controlled Congress told Bush in so many words to "Sit down and shut up because we have the economy handled, and there is nothing wrong with things as they are."
And, then, the economy tanked while Congress stood by with their thumbs up their rear ends. Yes, thanks to Democrats in control of the economy, we are in this mess, the Democrats still have not fixed the economy, and the Democrats have promised to do things that will further tank the economy if they are allowed to do them by Americans voting for removing the only people who have stood in their way to further ruining the economy--the Republicans in the House of Representatives.
What are the odds that a Republican President can keep up with the damage done by a Democrat-controlled Congress?
I thought both were poor. Neither looked relaxed and confident, and able to connect ideas laterally in ways that more than 2 percent of the audience could follow.
Romney looked great the first time he said anything. I mean really great. I was thinking he was about to run away with the debate right from the start, in a way that could actually tighten the race. It lasted about a minute or two, and then he was done. After, he looked like the offspring of a neurotic mom with ADHD and a robot of a father, powered by a big wind-up spring lever in his back that had been turned a couple times too many.
And that says how badly Obama did, because he only marginally at best looked better than Romney.
The fact checkers, though, are going to have a field day with both - and especially Romney's dumb insistence he wouldn't cut taxes in any way that impacted deficits. That's, like, um, I just don't get it.
Also, am I like the last person alive who understands business expenses are paid for with pre-tax dollars? I just don't get it.
It also means you've probably never taken a course on taxation, hence not understanding. Taxes are rather complex, and sometimes counter-intuitive. Which is why it is ridiculous when people who haven't taken any courses/read any books think they understand how they work.
Also, what is your point about the business expenses? It depends on if they are deductible or not, as to whether they are part of the calculation of Taxable Income, but again your point is???
I see that rommey, said the samething as the President. So he not ready to be the The President Of The United States! He had no answers for nothing and Rommey just said the same old things. Obama/ Biden 2012!!!!!
So because Romney agreed with Obama "he" can not be president but Obama can??????????
jd: Who needs a copycat when we already have the original? Hint: Copycat = can't think for himself. The answer is easy when someone else tells you what it is.
Ayup! A spineless worm is not qualified to be President of the United States. Flip flop Romney has no backbone and contradicted most of what he has been saying for months.
Romney was the only one of the two with original ideas--more of the same from Barry who has convinced himself that big government is right for America. How do you people get dressed for the day without Obama there to tell you what clothes to wear? Pathetic!
jdbird the reason Romney won't be President is not because he agreed with Obama it's that tomorrow he will disagree with everything he agreed with tonight. Wait for it. Flip-Flop.
Most of you call him Flip Flop cause that's what you've been told 1,000 times. How many of you know what he's flip flopped on and could explain it to anyone? If you say it you should be able to say what he flip flopped on and why it's so significant that it's one of your main arguments against.
Hallelujah, Amen! Vote for the President who spent more in just under one term than Bush did in two whole terms. It is just the shot in the arm America needs for a strong economy. NOT!
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57400369-503544/national-debt-has-increased-more-under-obama-than-under-bush/
Still could have used some more specifics. I could have SWORN I heard candidate Mitt (dog-on-the-car-roof) Romney say something on the trail about reducing Pell grants. Tonight he said "there would be no changes to education."
Trusting a candidate who has NO CORE is One Foolish Idea!
Thank you, I was thinking the same thing as to Pell grants! Oh, and how about obliterating the Department of Education? Doesn't merit mentioning either, I guess...
My neice had a fit when he said he wouldn't cut education.
"BUT, BUT, He said....WHAT A LIAR!" She left the room. I think her mind is made up.
Then tell your 25 year old niece to move out and get a job!
What a total, complete smack down. The president did not look very presidential. Even all his buddies at MSNBC were trashing his lack of performance. And that includes the one who got tingles down his leg the night he won the election.
Good job Mitt. Keep it up...
Mittens the Liar blustered and lied and was obnoxious. His thought about his performance? Winning!
Romney...Vouchers and deregulate banking!
Romney...I don't know how I will do it, but after I am elected I will work with BOTH parties to figure it out.
I know who gets my vote in November.
It sure won't be Romney.
Did he say deregulate banking? You're taking it to far. He said some regulation is needed. He's not an idiot, hence him having tons more money than you or I.
Why wouldn't you want a guy who works with BOTH parties, instead of sneaking one sided things in. I don't know if you forgot, but that's how the system is supposed to work.
Clinton deregulated the bankers when he removed the Glass Stegall Act. It is one of the main reasons they banks went out of control and caused the banking crisis. It also had alot to do with Clinton foorcing Freddie & Fannie to make a percentage of their home loans to unqualified buyers. Both of these were heavy reasons for the banking crisis. The reason Clinton had a budget surplus was because the capital gains taxes were lowered and a ton of revenue came in the form of capital gains taxes. I believe that was created by the previous republican administration. Not sure! Could have been Clinton.
Well, for starters, he is not a Washington Insider so he isn't going to be able to know all the specifics until he gets into office. The fact that he isn't a Washington Insider should give people pause for thought. But, then again, thinking does not seem to be a lot of peoples' strong suits these days.
Romney WAS the Commander in Chief of that debate. Romney-Ryan all the way. Obama seemed confused,..maybe teleprompter withdrawal symptoms.
Burt, can't see too well through those dark glasses?... or smoking the crack pipe during the debate?
Blind comment for sure.
13Dev: Do you even have a TV?
no kidding Burt i really liked it when obama threw in the
''i inherited this deficet'' but forgot to mention HE quadrupled it!!
LOOOOOOL
Joe: That blame game was old 3+ years ago, even his own people aren't going for it. There is no end to the lies. The media distortion and spin. The press may be the biggest enemy that America has, and they're inside the wire.
Romney was trying to too hard. He acted and sounded like a hyped up used car salesman.
The only thing Romney showed me last night is that he's an aggressive bully. He trampled all over the moderator like the poor guy was a Bain employee and he did the same to the President.
Obama did the same and worse.
Obama (after moderator tried to let him know time was up): "Ummm..., I had five seconds left before you interrupted me...."
Moderator (after Obama rambled on for thirty seconds more): "That was a lot more than five seconds..."
Interesting NBC would come up with this 'truth squad', knowing they have been caught falsely manipulating statements of republicans. Sorry NBC...you have no credibility. BTW-Romney won.
The media is scared. How will they be able to deal with President Romney, after holding hands with obama the last 4 years? The contrast will be blinding.
The mainstream media is gasping for air,..and it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of propagandists.
Oh sure, a rwnj, who most probably salivates over Fox "news' being critical of another station. You must be very disappointed that your candidate cannot help the smirk he gets on his face. Romney shows just how little he likes the American people
Newday: you're just sore that your boy got his lunch taken, that's all. I didn't see a 'smirk',..I saw CONFIDENCE and the self-assured look of the next president in Romney.
Hey,..Where did obama go? He ran off the stage, as Romney the Victorious waved to the crowd. Obama didn't look very presidential at all.
Ahh yes, the good old tried and true "Liberal biased media" ploy. Has that ever really worked for Republicans with anyone other than their base?
Burt.................. as I said earlier. Take off those dark glasses or put down the crack pipe. You're making stuff up simply because you are a repub or an addict.
After the debate I visited ALL the news outlets to see their opinion. Not because the outcome wasn't clear, but because I enjoy varying opinions. MSNBC never disappoints in their predictable ones.
The majority of posts at this site share the opinion that President Obama seemed the most presidential of the two. Not a stretch, he is the president. MSNBC posts after the debate seem to be in favor of the Democrat. Again, no stretch here, contributors and sicaphants on this site are all Democrats. Why is this even considered a news organization? Why am I bothering to post this? Waiting for the assault now. Bring it.
12Dev: Crack is the democrat martini. That's all yours.
To all the Liberal here that imagine and saw their own version of the debates.
Listen to NBC, CNN, CBS and even Beill Mayer that tweeted that Obama was lost without his teleprompter.
This one Mitt won and you can not take that away. So good night and go to sleep.
Sorry, Burt. While I LOVE having someone who has never met me tell me what I think, you are wrong.
Mittens is comes across as arrogant, frantic and frenetic. He is incapable of an honest feeling or thought.
Only the truly deluded believe otherwise.
Newday: You must be feeling pretty crappy right about now,..relax take an Ambien or two like Brokaw. It will all be over in November, the economy will pick up, you'll find a job, who knows you might even get yourself a girl,..or a guy hey whatever. Things are looking up, so hang in there.
Teleprompters again? really? You have not gotten tired of that stupid canard over the last four years? Google "Mitt Romney teleprompters." He uses them, too. In fact, google EVERY SINGLE PRESIDENT/NOMINEE since teleprompters were invented, and see if you can find pictures of ALL OF THEM using them.
Since I already know you will....your stupid teleprompter comments are irrelevant. It's like complaining that using a car makes a person somehow lesser of a human being because they're not using their own two legs. IT'S STUPID.
I just saw Mittens face red all the time didn't you notice, Obama was just thinking and taking notes. Obama acted cool and collective like he always does. Obama gets my vote, because I'm for the middle class. It is time for the rich to start paying there share. Obama don't have an off shore account to screw our country out of money. Romney and those like him are just jerks. They don't care about anyone, don't be fooled by his lies. He changed his mind again tonight for about the millionth time. Obama is on message.
thats cause ubama had no teleprompter, second isn't too bad for the third rate ubama
I voted for Obama , and will vote again. but am disappointed with the debate, Mitt talked too much and said nothing. and the President was not there all the time. Something was missing. I still feel in the dark. about our future. but have faith in our President. What a lousy mess was left by Republicans. what i hated most was Romney talking about a lady who asked him Can you help me? and he answered Yes. BS.......But then thats what politicians do Promise what they cant deliver.!!!
menscar14 u r as delusional as ur so called Obozo. the only thing u were right about is Obozo was not there. he hasnt been there in 4 yrs. talking about what politicians promise and cant deliver. also, u will vote again for Obozo. please! u need to go back and read all the bad Obozo has done in the past 4 yrs and u want him to double the trouble he has already done. WAKE UP AMERICAN
As a non-biased viewer of American politics, it seems we allow ourselves to be tied to a party rather than our beliefs. We side with the candidate who can talk eloquently and is aggressive and so maybe feels like he/she is qualified.
However, Americans need to wake up and go beyond these senseless debates. We need a non-tainted view of what each candidate is.
Aggression and lack thereof should not be the deciding factor on who the stronger person is.
I suggest, read.
The media and campaign money have muddled the truth. The best way for us to know what a candidate will be in the future is to see what he has been in the past, not what he is saying now. Campaigns are not based on truth, they are based on marketing. In other words, whatever will work.
I can only plead with fellow Americans to look at the track record for all candidates before deciding, from the president all the way to local candidates in this election.