Why Romney Will Lose the Debate:

1.A plateful of "Zingers" are mighty sweet and verbal zingers may be fun to deliver, but zingers do not win the White House. Poorly delivered zingers will be examples of what not to do as pundits analyze future elections. The American voters are looking for substance over clever comments.

2.Romney is a plutocrat who cares more about lowering his taxes than about the plight of 47% of the voters who he describes as dependent on the government, lazy, and victims. No matter what he says about caring for the working class, his words will have a hollow ring. His lack of empathy has been evident throughout his campaign and a 90 minute debate will not change that.

3.Romney has no core values while President Obama is a candidate with convictions. Convictions are the foundation of who you are and what you will say. Under the pressure of a debate Obama will passionately speak to what he believes and Romney will cling to a scripted message devoid of either emotion or intellect. Romney cannot give what he does not have.

4.Attacking President Obama will excite Romney's conservative base, but that will not be enough to earn votes from the American people. The only tool in Romney's toolbox is to attack; he attacks the President in his stump speeches and never gives a positive vision of America's future. If Romney wants to turn his campaign around, he will have to do more than be aggressive. To be warm and likeable is nearly impossible.

5.Romney can't and won't speak to the details of what he would do if he were to be POTUS. Romney will not tell Americans he would remove their tax deductions, he will not say that he intends to change Medicare as we know it. He will not mention that he would gut Medicaid and Social Security. He will not say that he will redistribute the wealth so the wealthy will get even more.

No matter how team Romney tries to spin it, Romney will lose tonight's debate. The only outcome from the debate will be a bonanza of money for down-ticket Republicans because wealthy donors want to cut their losses and save what they can.

RYAN INC.
The 100 year-old business upon which Paul Ryan's family built its fortunes, WAS BUILT ON defense contracts and federal transportation subsidies.
Great-grandfather Ryan, started the family railroad construction business in 1884. He lobbied hard for federal money and the business flourished. In 1956, Congress approved the interstate highway project - the biggest public works project in U.S. history. The Ryan family business shifted to interstate highway building, subsidized by hundreds of millions of dollars in federal land grants.

Now, after half a century, American's roads, rail and bridges are teetering on the edge, and in need of repair.
Yet since President Obama was sworn in, Paul Ryan has voted almost 100% against infrastructure projects. The President's American Jobs Act contains millions of construction jobs for road, rail, runway and port re-construction, yet Paul Ryan voted NO in lockstep with GOP. Since the President introduced the AJA last September, GOP Leader McConnell repeatedly blocked & filibustered the bill from coming up for vote, or even debate.

Note: Rep. Ryan was fine about federal spending for transport bills under President George Bush.
After voting against the Recovery Act - that saved construction jobs - Ryan asked for federal stimulus money on at least five different occasions. When the news came out, Mr. Ryan blamed the millions requested for his state of Wisconsin on his staff.

Taking advantage of taxpayer aid while making a stink about it, and playing politics with highway and transit bills, is the Ryan extreme hypocrisy. While his great-grandad created supply chains and JOBS for the common good, the 2012 Ryan only looks out for the welfare of a few very wealthy individuals.

Ordinary folks as well as businesses need roads, highways, runways and ports. Great-grandad Ryan knew that much, and he left Paul Ryan's family a fine legacy in cash and business to prove it.
The truth is that public infrastructure and private entrepreuneurship: BUILD THAT TOGETHER.

Advice to Romney: Be sure to scuttle out of the way when the curtain drops.

Hiya Chris, Feisty, Ron. Do ya think the right is OK WITH THE POLLS this morning?

First of all, we are not fooled by the doubting of the Polls on the right. The object was to try move the subject away from Romney's damning 47% comment.

But now, we also have Ryan's damning "30%" comment. And now, irrefutably on video before our very eyes, Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan lay out the way they see Those/You People. And it is NOT going away.

Like Romney, Ryan is from a privileged background, and college-educated on social security benefits left by his father. But when it comes to the rest of us, Ryan proposes turning Medicare into a voucher and ending Obamacare - which would end Medicaid. And btw, he would privatize Social Security.

Catholic priests and nuns are hounding Ryan about his budget, because he goes after low-income folks, disabled, children & seniors no longer working, and food stamps, while continuing to roll out the Romney-Ryan welfare/work and Medicare lies.
We get it, that Paul Ryan targets folks getting by on modest means, while proposing a further $5Trillion in tax cuts skewed to the wealthy -- to be paid for by raising taxes on the rest of us.

Under the Ryan plan, Mitt Romney would pay 1% in taxes.

"I do have to laugh at the lefty liberal whining and complaining about voter ID laws and the “difficulty” in obtaining the documentation necessary to get the ID..."

Joe- I think the larger question from the 'lefty liberal's is: Why, just in the last year or so, has this suddenly become such a great concern if it is, indeed, so widespread and detrimental???

Also- have you seen some news stories lately about that door-to-door student stunt? Was she working for the left, or the right?

Comment?

"...condescending elitism..."

Really, Bill? This from a Romney supporter?

Awww, g'wan.

Backhouse, good post.....these two peas in a pod have enormous disdain for almost half the country's citizens. And nothing they may promise as to how they will treat us can be taken as a fact. They will lie, cheat and obfuscate to suit the moment.

Median income in MA under Romney. See how the incomes grow!!!!

2002: $49,855
2003: $50,955
2004: $52,019
2005: $56,017
2006: $55,330

Now during the many Obama “recoveries” median income has actually dropped 5.7 %. The median annual income of American households was $53,718 as of June 2009, the last month of the recession. Now, after 38 months of this “recovery,” it has fallen to $50,678 — a drop of $3,040 per household. During this time the median income for Black American families dropped 11.1% and for the youth (Americans between 25 and 34) it dropped 8.9%.

Who has helped the middle class more in their political life? Who has helped Blacks more in their political life? Who has helped the younger generation more in his political life? American eyes are opening and they are coming out of the trance for the last four years and seeing reality and the direction we are going and they don’t like it.

About That 47% Ad

Here in the battleground state of Virginia the Dems are giving heavy play to an ad built around Romney's 47% comment. Presumably, the purpose of the ad is to grab at the gut of folks who think they were dissed by that comment and energize them to vote for Obama. But I have a somewhat different take.

Every time I see that ad my thought is that it's a Republican ad. Because while Romney has acknowledged that his comment was "inelegant" that doesn't mean his words have not resonated with a lot of folks out there. Indeed, the core message of his comment is that contemporary American society has too many folks who think they are victims, too many folks who are looking for a government handout, too many folks who refuse to take personal responsibility for their circumstances. Many, many folks would be receptive to that message, and when the Dems run this ad they're doing a pretty good job of grabbing at their gut too.

So I hope the Dems keep on running that ad. Because the irony of ironies is that it will help Republicans more than them.

Ron: good post.

Zingers are lots of fun, everyone likes doing those. What Romney misses is that you actually have to TELL PEOPLE WHAT YOUR PLANS ARE should the nation have the great misfortune to have him as President. But Romney won't do that, he says people won't vote for him if he does.

Obama in 2012.

Dear Libertarians: Where in the Constitution does it say you have to have a photo I.D. to vote?

This is what amazes me about the Tea Party, they cry "don't tread on me!" when it comes to the requirement to fill out the census, for example, but cool with "you must have a photo I.D. to VOTE!"

The irony astounds me.

But I have a somewhat different take[regarding Romney's 47% comment].

Of course you do, Bill Fairfax. Don't let facts or verbatim transcripts get in your way.

"...while Romney has acknowledged that his comment was "inelegant" that doesn't mean his words have not resonated with a lot of folks out there...."

That's right, MF Bill. He got the idea after running the incredibly honest "you didn't build that" and "if we talk about the economy, we'll lose" ads.

Like a young child. Find out a lie works, and you keep at it until you eventually get your just punishement (i.e.- November 6).

@Amy -- what kind of proof of residency and citizenship would you propose then?

Ron....great post. One has to wonder which Romney will show up tonight, for me that's the incentive to watch. Listening to all the media hoopla over how a debate will go, is tiresome, it goes to show, how shallow Romney really is and how desperate the media is in spinning whatever may come out of it, just to keep things relevant. with such a small percentage supposedly undecided, the results shouldn't make a difference.

Hoping for the best for President Obama tonight. If he's on his usual roll. tonight should be a walk in the park. I don't think Romney's a strong enough debater to outshine our President. Should be fun to watch.

OBAMA IN 2012.

Newday and Gingerbread Mamma: Thank you. The wooden Romney will lose in tonight's debate.

Amy B. Portland, ME

The tea party has been overrun with establishment christian conservatives who desire to control the personal lives of citizens and to perpetuate the war machine through military intervention in Iran. Tea Partiers would continue the status quo with corporate bail outs and crony capitalism. Libertarians care about civil liberties, bringing our troops home, ending the war on drugs and ending corporatism. The Tea Party are not Libertarians.

By the way, all the problems with the Tea Party are the same problems with your party.

Gary Johnson 2012

Feisty, Romney will probably show up two-faced, one side pale and one side "tan"; that way, depending on who he is referring to during his answers, he'll just turn that side toward the camera.

You have to laugh at Albany Joe, he's a lot like Mitt Romney except instead of hehehe, it's hahaha.

As for Fairfax Bill and the buried middle class--the middle class has been in the process of being buried since Reagan began the digging. When a party keeps giving more favors to those who already have, more benefits to big business in the form of corporate welfare and systematically State by State removes the ability of employees to negotiate better pay and benefits by passing Right to Work laws, it eventually buries the working middle class. VP Biden is right, even if poorly worded. That said, Romney has provided far more gaffes in the last 18 months than Biden has over his life-time.

The thing that strikes me most about Republicans is the hypocrisy sometimes. They are the party that illogically say that our deficit can be eliminated by cutting spending alone. They are the party that refuse any balancing revenue or tax increases. That is a topic I have touched on before so I won't elaborate. However, imagine my surprise to see that thousands of jobless millionaires get unemployment checks costing the taxpayer millions of dollars. Now that is useless spending that can stop.

I wonder if Mr. Ryan is aware of these millionaires who are getting unemployment checks. Does he know that the republican led Congress removed a plan to take away their benefits. Does he and Romney look at them with the same contempt as he does the average worker who actually needs the program or does he say to himself "I don't worry about the very poor..."

On another note on this debate night. Unless Romney stutters, trips on stage, shakes his fist in rage at the audience or has an oops moment, the MSM will gladly declare a Romney win. The MSM desparately wants to see this race tighten. They will magnify any perceived Obama mispoken word or syllable to try to sway the "results". We've seen it before, the Gore and Kerry debates showed us that policy and command of the issues do not mean that the MSM will call the correct winner.

Side note, I watched the Texas senatorial debate between Ted Cruz and Paul Sadler last night. Never seen a more biased moderator who refused to ask the GOP Cruz to answer questions. The moderators let Cruz ramble on and on. The moderator allowed Cruz to constantly interrupt his opponent and to sling half truths. Man what a weak attempt at objectivity. Unfortunatley despite a bipartisan record in the state legislature and being a fairly liberal democrat, Sadler will lose by 10 points to Cruz. Ted Cruz a never elected, swarmy, Tea Party fanatic will be the next Texas Senator.

The baggers jumped on Biden's 'buried' remark, and they are waving a 2007 video around like they just discovered the Holy Grail, but a big bombshell is about to go off. After a week of examining Wrongme's latest (2 of 2) tax returns, they have discovered how Bain sheltered millions of dollars with offshore entities.

Two Bain funds, in one of which Mrs. Romney’s trust held up to a $1 million dollar stake, invested about $13.5 million into Ursa, through a Caymans entity. In late 2009 and early 2010, Ursa sold the Michael’s Stores notes for nearly $200 million, giving Bain a hefty profit.

The deal could have saddled Michael’s with a tax on what is known as “cancellation of debt” income, which arises when a company’s debt is repurchased at a discount by the company itself or a related party. Federal withholding on interest payments by Michael’s was another potential issue. But Bain and Blackstone probably ensured Michael’s avoided those taxes by routing the transaction through Ursa, which was “unrelated” to the retailer and situated in a jurisdiction with a tax treaty with the United States that bars withholding taxes on interest. This, in turn, would have bolstered returns for investors like Bain.

Read it here: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/02/us/politics/bains-offshore-strategies-grew-romneys-wealth.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

It is pretty damaging to Romney's claim that he is paying what he should be paying.

Bill, the "core message of his comment" on the 47% is one of dismissiveness, rudeness, and a deliberate attempt to associate lack of wealth with a desire to (proverbially) be lazy, sit on a sofa, and eat government supplied bon-bons at the expense of others. And being a smart person, you know (as well as the rest of us) that his description and stated perception fo this group of folks is a lie.

Months of non-stop ads here in Florida have convinced me that both candidates are the embodiment of Satan and are bent on destroying this country if elected. I've decided to move to some place in the Andes Mountains and become an alpaca farmer.

Ok...obviously I'm kidding, but every year since I have been old enough to vote (admittedly only since 1996), I've heard the same thing: THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION OF OUR LIFETIME! Our country cannot survive four more years with this President! Or...Our country's survival depends on re-electing this President! Etc, etc, etc.

Somehow, our country is still here despite all those dire predictions.

To those who have seen more elections than I...has it always been like this??

Happy Debate Day!!!! :-)

"A genuine leader is not a searcher for consensus but a molder of consensus" – Martin Luther King Jr.

I spoke with a black lady whom I worked with for several years and respect and love. She was a staunch Obama supporter in 2008 after Mrs. Clinton was defeated. I sat down with her yesterday and we talked about the difficult decision she has to make now. Her decision coincides with MLK's quote. She told me that Obama does not have the ability to mold a consensus -- "he can not bring this church together" -- were her words. She will listen to the debates -- especially the one tonight -- but she knows in her heart that if Obama remains the pastor of this great land, we will be a congregation divided. She is leaning very heavily of voting for Mitt Romney since he has a proven and successful record of working with Democrats and unlike Elizabeth Warren who couldn't name a Republican she could work with in the Senate (her doom moment) Romney can name several Democrats.

Romney should state tonight that one of the first things he will do is to have that "Camp David" accord where the movers and shakers of both parties will be locked in a room together and not allowed to leave until a consensus plan is agreed to that will turn this country around.

Grimey:

To answer your question, I can speak to elections since Goldwater. It has always been bad, but I cannot recall a candidate who panders, lies, and flip-flops as much as Romney.

Because the differences are so clear, this election is a big deal.

Frank "Grimey" Grimes, Springfield, USA

Only been voting age since 1995. I've seen enough though. It's been the same thing every year with empty promises to improve the economy, promote peace, and secure civil liberties. Year after year none of those promises come true. Every year the economy worsens, we have more enemies than before, and we lose a little more of our freedom. Crazy is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Time for a change.

Vote Gary Johnson 2012

Jack wrote:

"Don't let facts or verbatim transcripts get in your way."

There you have it - the right-wing/Republican version of "discrete methodology". Summarily ignore facts that conflict with your dogma. It works for MF Bill, which explains why he is able to show that the left is guilty of "condescending elitism". MF Bill isn't a condescending elitist when he tell us we are wrong. He's simply right and that's all there is to it.

You'll note that WCA is back sniveling this morning. He can't counter THE FACTS, so we get his whiny, cheesy comment that says absolutely nothing.

Come on Mark, You know that Hypocrisy is found on both sides of the aisle.

These guys will say anything to get elected - on both sides.

Holy Cow Walker. My whiny, cheesy comments?

After you just posted a 1000 word essay whining about JAS1 and me?

Do you even think before you post?

It very well could be Romney’s last chance to change the trajectory of the race.

I'm cautiously optimistic that my President Obama will be assertively triumphant...

*** So why is the national race so close among likely voters (49%-46% versus Obama’s 51%-44% lead among registered voters)? We have a two-word answer for you: voter interest. Among the full universe of registered voters expressing the highest interest in the election, Obama and Romney are essentially tied, with Obama at 49% and Romney at 48%. And two key pillars of Obama’s political coalition -- Latinos and young voters -- are much less interested in the election than they were in 2008.

This analysis fails to account for the crucial element of voter turnout. Even GOP strategists acknowledge that the Obama campaign is far better prepared at the grassroots level to get out the vote.

The Romney campaign seems to have essentially conceded several swing states. Romney/Ryan have all but given up on wooing young and minority voters.

In only 34 days, Romney will become nothing more than a footnote in history. I hope when Donald Trump flips his wig they get it on video.

YD: The thing that strikes me most about Republicans is the hypocrisy sometimes. They are the party that illogically say that our deficit can be eliminated by cutting spending alone. They are the party that refuse any balancing revenue or tax increases.

Many support the Simpson/Bowles plan, which does include raising taxes. I support it. I would imagine many others conservatives also support that plan. So it may appear that your point about hypocrisy would seem to be another straw-man argument.

This is where you lose focus Mark. You sweat the little stuff while ignoring the big problem. The country is consuming $4 billion dollars each day, every day, in deficit spending, spending money we don't have. That problem needs to be addressed. Certainly you like Obama can whine about the little things, like a 3% tax increase on unemployed millionaires. Sure, go ahead, it's great populist politics, But it solves next to nothing of the problem.

The problem is, and will continue to be the outflow of money to support Social Security, Medicare, and now Obamacare. The GOP has seriously discussed reforming these problems only to be met with cynical ads of them (the GOP) pushing grandma off a cliff. So, please, you tell us who is disingenuous on this issue.

A third-party candidate protest vote in this election is a Republican vote. Be very careful, as what you wish for in your protest vote may very well bring you just the opposite. The extreme opposite.

JoAnnaSmith1

You had me until "GOP has seriously discussed about reforming these problems" The GOP would continue with deficit spending and increase the national debt. Maybe not to the extent that Dems would, but the difference is minimal.

We print and borrow $0.43 of every dollar we spend. This is unsustainable. We need an across-the-board 43% reduction in government spending, which is something the GOP has never come close to proposing.

And before concluding that a 43% reduction in spending is crazy, keep in mind, we're talking about returning military spending back to 2003 levels, eliminating useless government programs and seriously reforming Medicare. Not all that crazy if you ask me.

And being a smart person, you know . . .

Whoa! Matthew, that's just a step too far. It's one thing to be polite. But attributing intelligence to someone who displays none is uncalled for.

Do you even think before you post?

Talking to yourself again, WCA?

DingleB

I do repect the Libertarian point of view, but I don't accept the idea Democrats are just as bad as Republicans in defending our freedoms.

President Obama took a controversial stand on allowing gays to serve in the military, and in recognizing the right of gay couples to marry. I don't see how any Libertarian can fail to support Obama after he stood up for these civil rights.

Democrats are fighting to preserve voting rights for everybody, not just Democratic voters. I am sure there are plenty of Republican and Libertarian voters who don't have picture I.D.s.

But attributing intelligence to someone who displays none is uncalled for.

Looks like Jack is still having those Intellectual conversations with his Liberal big brain think tank buddies. "You're all dumb compared to me". What a joke you insolent libs are.

These guys will say anything to get elected - on both sides

WCA, I do not disagree in theory, however the thing that counts is what do they do once in office. In 2010 the shellacking that your party crows about was supposed to realign things to have the GOP address jobs, spending, tax reform and other pressing issues. The problem is nothing got done. Believe me I am trying to be objective here but the Tea Party has hijacked any attempt at rational debate. They pushed for social issue reforms whether it be attacking privacy rights, or attempting to repeal a constitutionally approved Health care law. At the state level the blatant attempts to make it harder to vote on the false premise that Democrats are registering and voting illegally. Again ironically, it was recently found out that Republican groups in Florida and Colorado are doing the illegal actions.

WCA, the economy may be an important but it is not the only issue. I see no way in which a GOP dominanted Congress or a GOP President will alleviate matters.

@JAS, the problem is as much the outflow of taxpayer money being spent in the form of corporate welfare and entitlements to the wealthy and the lack of revenue coming in from the same due to tax breaks and credits.

The GOP will not address that issue as their economic plan adds an even great burden on those at the bottom of the scale and further favors even more beaks for those at the top.

I find it amusing that the liberals on this board are so concerned over what Romney will say tonight. What the liberals need to be really concerned about is what Obama will say. How many ah's or uh's will he put in front of his thoughts? Sounds like a good basis for a beer game... LOL

Based on the poll results listed above as well as comments from Bill and other posters, there are a fair number of Republicans who actually applaud Mitt Romney's now-infamous "47%" comments.

Although on one level I am disappointed that more people did not take offense to Romney's "core message" of divisiveness and dismissiveness, on another level I have to say I am not surprised.

The Romney statement is full of the things Republicans seem to love - disdain for the less fortunate, contempt for supporters of president Obama, a dismissal of their obligation to care for others, and a reaffirmation that they are better than "those people".

The statement is also factually inaccurate, which Republicans seem to prefer.

Let's review Romney's words one more time:

“There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what…These are people who pay no income tax.

My job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives..”

In his make-believe "fantasy land", Romney sees three seperate groups of people - supporters of President Obama, people who have no federal income tax obligation, and those who rely on government assistance - as one homogeneous group. In his world there is a single group - 47% of Americans - who support President Obama, pay no federal income tax, and are dependent on government assistance.

Romney makes at least two wildly inaccurate statements - ALL of the 47% of Americans who support President Obama pay no federal income tax; and all those who don't pay federal income tax are government-dependent "victims" who feel entitled to "free stuff".

In the real world supporters of President Obama come from all walks of society, in fact Obama has higher support amongst those with advanced degrees than Romney. I guess Republicans must think there are a large number of unemployed free-loading MBAs and PhDs out there voting for Obama!

In the real world the majority of those who have no federal income tax obligations are seniors, students, military and the working poor - all of whom contribute to society, pay a variety of other taxes, and would be outraged to be called "government-dependent". Probably 45% of this group also vote Republican!

But the most damning line - the line that can't be explained away by any amount of "spin", the line that should disqualify anyone from voting for Romney - is the one Romney delivered with the most conviction:

My job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.

Bill Fairfax: Indeed, the core message of his comment is that contemporary American society has too many folks who think they are victims, too many folks who are looking for a government handout, too many folks who refuse to take personal responsibility for their circumstances.

I doubt it is that complicated. Less people are paying federal taxes, and in 47% of the cases, none, just because they can't earn a living. They don't have a job, or their job does not pay enough for them to qualify to pay federal income tax. Should they pay? Yes, at least something. Everyone should have a skin in the game when they are receiving federal services. With the ARRA failing to provide 1) Money in consumers pockets (Recall Pelosi claiming unemployment checks are the BEST form of stimulus. She of course was wrong.) and 2) The creation of any jobs, the country is just not producing enough work for the people to have the jobs necessary to pay the higher federal tax rates (or any tax at all). With all the promises of the ARRA, it instead just turned into another welfare program.

And with the taxes going up significantly on the 53% that do pay federal taxes in January, it's unclear how anyone can "grow the pie" to provide the jobs necessary to stop that 47% number of people that don't pay federal taxes from further increasing.

Amy B. Portland, ME

I don't see how any Libertarian can fail to support Obama after he stood up for these civil rights.

Becuase Obama supports "fusion centers", NDAA, SOPA, The Patriot Act, corporatism, etc.

@Amy -- I am surprised at the crickets. I surely thought you would have great ideas as to how to protect the right to vote. What proof of residency and/or citizenship would you suggest?

Looks like Jack is still having those Intellectual conversations with his Liberal big brain think tank buddies. "You're all dumb compared to me".

Take your jealousy elsewhere, CA.

Less people are paying federal taxes, and in 47% of the cases, none, just because they can't earn a living.

Really, Smiff? 47% of the people "can't earn a living"? Wow! There's a fact I didn't know.

"I love the smell of napalm in the morning. It smells like victory." Well, don't we all?

And for my Republican friends..."Forward to Little Big Horn and GLORY!"

Just a couple of memorable movie quotes for you all on this beautiful Fall morning. But first a message from our sponsor.....

Out here on the prairie we don't pay much attention to what's happening back East in them big cities. It don't concern us much. We're more interested in rain and crops and whatever Rush has to say when we're driving around feedin' the cattle and runnin' into town for supplies.

Yeah, that Rush, he's quite the talker and I believe everything he says 'cause I know he's one of us workin' folks. He cuts through all that high-faluttin' eastern liberal talk and tells it like it is. Now the wife she likes to watch FOX, but I'm out in the truck all day and don't have time for those folks.

Yeah, out here on the prairie we listen to Rush and he tells us how we ought to vote and what to think about them folks in Washington and what it takes to be good Americans.

Debate? Naa, I ain't got time for that nonsense. Rush'll sum it up for me tomorrow and that's all I need.

Yeeehaw..beat Texas! Now OU football, that is important.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

Obama/Biden 2012

What's Mr. Me First Bill's favorite cheese again?

Swiss of course, it reminds me of all the holes in Obama's policies. Thanks for asking, Miss Feisty.

Chris Dorr,

HELL YEAH!!! Go Tigers!

Amy,

I don't they really want less government, just poorly funded government. They whine about taxes and helping poor people because it's sooooo intrusive then support...

Government mandated ulltrasounds

Personhood Amendments

Bans on gay marriage

Papers please laws

Domestic espionage on Muslims

Voter ID laws

The hypocrisy is more then astounding, it's breathtaking.

Take your jealousy elsewhere, CA.

HAHAHAHA!!!!

Next up is I know you are but what am I.

Grimey, I've been voting and following politics since Nixon's first successful run at President. It was Ronald Reagan who turned me into a permanent democrat because his words were the opposite of his policies. His shining city on the hill was only for those who were already had a home up there. In all these years, NEVER have I seen the GOP shifted so far to the right as to be as radical as the extremists they claim to hate. As in 2008, this election really is about righting the country, about the middle class and about what kind of nation we will become.

There is a stark choice in this election, something not seen for many years. With Romney/Ryan, it is a return to Bush 43 failed policies. With Romney/Ryan, it is more Reagan voo doo, trickle down, tax cuts solve every problem policies while adding trillions more to the deficit--all these "ideas" have been proved to be a disastrous failure.

With Obama/Biden, we aim for the economic progress and balanced budgets of the Clinton years; we aim at building once again a strong middle class. Fiscal sanity means eliminating corporate welfare; it means rewarding businesses who keep jobs here with tax breaks rather than rewarding those who ship them to China or India. Fiscal sanity also means asking the wealthy to pay a little more of their millions to help get America back on the fiscal track; it means "shared sacrifice" which includes sacrifice by those who have much instead of giving them more.

Paul Ryan never saw a piece of UNFUNDED GOP legislation he didn't like and didn't vote YES to pass. Fiscal hawk? Deficit guru? No, no way, no how. Ryan is a phony, a liar and an ideologue who cannot see beyond his own narrow world. Romney is just like Ryan, a phony deficit hawk, a liar extraordinaire, and cannot see beyond his own narrow view. Both lack moral character when it comes to compassion and tolerance.

I have NO desire to return to the failed GOP policies of more war, more military spending, more unfunded tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires while expecting the middle class and the poor, education, infrastructure, research, clean air/water, safe food and drugs, to take a drastic haircut. It's ARITHMETIC. Romney/Ryan cannot add. Their policies will be another path to another Great Recession, we've been there, done that and doing it again to see if the 4th time trickle down works better is stupidity.

OBAMA/BIDEN 2012!

Next up is I know you are but what am I.

Another brain twister. Anybody have any idea what this guy's talking about?

TNSEVOL, I have liberal friends who openly state that we are all the victims of a government that can and should provide health care for everyone. That it's inhumane the way health care is handled now. We discussed it at length last election cycle. I am neutral about his statement, because I have actually heard my friends say these things. Of course, they said that before the 47% statement surfaced; they would never say such a thing now. But I'm sure they'll bring up their opinion that the government can and should do more for us, once the hype is over.

Another brain twister. Anybody have any idea what this guy's talking about?

was there too many syllables Jack? Im sure with that super big brain of yours you can figure it out. Or is it you cant understand dum rednicks. What a blowhard.

Ben-636050

@Amy -- I am surprised at the crickets. I surely thought you would have great ideas as to how to protect the right to vote. What proof of residency and/or citizenship would you suggest?

How do you protect the right to vote? In the lefty world its a free for all. After all illegal aliens are people too. Liberals and their unintended consequences.

I can't believe I'm about to say this...but:

I'm not going to be watching the debate tonight...will have to be DVR'd. Why? Because my ORIOLES are playing a meaningful game on the last day of the regular season!!!!!! (How about a little help with those Yankees Red Sox nation!!!)

Weiters / Jones 2012!!!! ;-)

To all our right wing friends here on the vine:

When President Obama wins re-election in 34 days, you will not be losers. You too will be among the winners. Our country will be the winner, and the entire planet will win. We will heal our divisions and move forward, if you will allow our fairly elected president the chance to implement his policies.

Governance is an art, not a science. Eight years of Bush/Cheney demonstrated the results of the GOP way. Now it is time to give up your prejudices and work with the rest of us instead of against us and our country. Progressives stand for progress.

RE-ELECT OBAMA/ BIDEN NOVEMBER 6 (or sooner if your state allows early voting)

Within the 47% that Romney whines about are hard-working Americans struggling to get by, who by virtue of having a job and paying up to 35% in payroll taxes actually pay more than Romney's lousy 14% no-job passive income tax.

P.S. - over 2400 millionaires not only pay no taxes, they get unemployment compensation. THIS MUST END.

DB: We print and borrow $0.43 of every dollar we spend. This is unsustainable. We need an across-the-board 43% reduction in government spending, which is something the GOP has never come close to proposing.

Agreed. So where's Obama's plan to do so? Where is Harry Reid's plan to do so?

In the end though, it's the voters responsibility. Are you ready to vote for someone that says "Okay, look, we have to solve this federal government debt/deficit problem. Everyone will pay more in taxes and everyone will get less government services. Many contractors working for the government will have to do with less, if not totally without. In addition the federal workforce will need to be cut in half. Also, to increase job growth, we'll need to cut regulations on businesses to allow them to compete in the global market place. Vote for me".

You ready to vote for the one that says that Dingle? Think they'd win?

The problem is nothing got done

Nothing gets done Mark, because the House passes bills and the Senate sits on them. Then the Senate tries something and the House won't approve.

This is Obama's fault Mark. He's not the first President with a divided congress.

He is not a leader.

Who would have thunk, that I would ever be longing again for the days of Newt Gingrich and Bill Clinton?

Thank goodness for David Walker's burning hate. Not sure what I would do with out my morning chuckle. Keep it up, you are a shinning example of what the left is about. Just can't handle the heat.

JSM: pay more than Romney's lousy 14% no-job passive income tax.

It's not an income tax. Please learn what you are talking about before you are critical of it. Otherwise you end up like Dumb Fux.

JiP: Really, Smiff? 47% of the people "can't earn a living"? Wow! There's a fact I didn't know.

Got a problem comprehending the "less than" and "more than" concepts Jack? Why yes you do.

Still a Junior Leaguer you are.

Sarah-3043284

Your assessment of the GOP is spot on. Now would you care to defend Obama's support of "Domestic espionage on Muslims", the TSA, NDAA, The Patriot Act, fusion centers, and DOHS?

Gary Johnson 2012

Go Miguel Cabrera

Backwater --

Paul Ryan says that these 30% "don't believe in the American Dream".

After careful consideration, I've come to the conclusion that this statement, and Romney's 47 percent remarks, don't really so much reflect Romney and Ryan's beliefs, so much as they reflect their plans.

Our resident Orwell expert especially should appreciate this. During the Bush administration, they perverted NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR. Big brother is now, indeed, watching you. And, pretty much the same group of folks are now setting up a large percentage of the population to buy into a scenario straight out of ANIMAL FARM -- i.e., where "all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

In other words, "I'm a man who really wants to help people, but unfortunately, some people just can't be helped."

So, since you can't be helped, I'll just help myself to yours.

Nice work, if you can get it.

And the irony is, a fair percentage of the people can't won't be helped may be about to hand it to them.

“On the other hand, millionaires get unemployed too and have made payments into the unemployment insurance.”

for justslapme. I know millionaires have the money but if they worked and earned their millions then lose their jobs, are they not entitled to unemployment if they pay into unemployment insurance? Or should they pay Unemployment Insurance in case you lose your job only? So I agree there needs to be change. Just dont expect a millionaire to pay into a system in which they can not be a benefactor of.

was there too many syllables Jack?

Hmm. . .

Im sure with that

Hmm. . .

Or is it you cant understand

Hmm. . .

its a free for all

Hmm. . .

Now hear this! Now hear this!

It's Not the "Useful Idiot" Mitt Romney, us Freedom Loving Americans have to worry about.

It's Mitt Romney's "Puppet Masters" that will destroy us!

It's the Rush Limbaughs, the Karl Roves, the Dick (Darth Vader) Cheneys, the Sean Hannitys,the Michael Savages, and Ann (the Man) Coulters, of the world that will Destroy us and the Middle and Working class.

These professional Haters will be "back in the game" with their ugly Fascism, Racism, Corporative Welfare, their Endless Wars to profit their MilitaryIndustrial Complex" that president Dwight Eisenhower warned us about way back in the 1950's.

These are the hideous and horrific "Players" that are Financially backing their "Useful Idiot" Mitt Romney.

They want to take us all Back to the "Cold War" days of the 1950s, where we all lived under the cloud of Thermal Nuclear War.

Do you want that?

Vote a straight Democratic ticket come this November 2012, like your Life depends on it.

I do repect the Libertarian point of view, but I don't accept the idea Democrats are just as bad as Republicans in defending our freedoms.

Then you are wearing blinders. Both sides will spend more than they rake in. Democrats are tax and spend. republicans are slash and spend.

President Obama took a controversial stand on allowing gays to serve in the military, and in recognizing the right of gay couples to marry. I don't see how any Libertarian can fail to support Obama after he stood up for these civil rights.

Clinton started it. Attributing it to the big O is disingenuous. also, he only paid lip service to gay marriage. Where is the steak behind the sizzle?

I personally believe there should be no barriers to gay rights (including marriage), but I fervently believe it is a state's issue, not a federal one. Let's say a gay couple want to marry in Maine. If the people of Maine refuse (via the ballot) to recognize it, they can move to Vermont (and take their tax revenue with them).

As for not supporting him when he stands up for these civili rights, he has to do it within the framework of the constitution. As a constitutional professor, he should know that.

Democrats are fighting to preserve voting rights for everybody, not just Democratic voters. I am sure there are plenty of Republican and Libertarian voters who don't have picture I.D.s.

And I'm sure there are plenty of democrat voters who don't have cars. Oh, I thought we were just making inane comments.

JoAnnaSmith1

I am voting for the only candidate that is saying that, Gary Johnson. The choice voters have to make is do we deal with the problem now, or deal with a disaster later. I'm making the proactive decision with my vote.

JAS1 - Believe me I don't just sweat the little stuff, I was using the UE for millionaires as an example of hypocrisy.

JoAnna, as you know I understand that the deficit is an issue and do agree that some parts of the Debt commission recommendations need to be implemented. Search my comments, I have speculated that with an Obama win, the democrats will move/or should move towards some of those recommendations after the election. I also understand that without the repeal of the Bush Tax cuts we will continue to dig a hole in the deficit. As a fiscally minded democrat, I also understand that Romney states that on top of keeping the Bush Tax cuts he wants to add another 5 trillion in tax cuts. Then he wants to preserve another trillion in cuts that were compromised by the Sequester. It doesn't add up.

Perhaps if you've followed me, you know I don't hold the democrats blameless. However, adding to the problem, as Romney and his GOP partners would do will not fix the fiscal situation. Again as I stated to WCA, the fiscal cliff is an important issue as is the economy but that is not the whole story. On other issues such as resolving foreign policy conflicts; I trust the President more than I do Romney.

Dingle,

I can't. His support of those has greatly disappointed me. By the way, I'm a huge Gary Johnson fan, but I vote in MI which is technically a swing state, and I'm just too afraid of Romney to risk my vote. If I voted somewhere that was solid blue, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat and I think it's absolutely ridiculous, that they won't include him in the debates.

P.S. Just moved to DC and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a Nats/Tigers World Series. That would be AWWEEESOOOMMMEEEE!!!!!

Joe in Albany........you said:

Quote......If documentation requirements are good enough for the feds to use for the last 26 years, why aren’t they good enough for the states to use this year??.....EndQuote

That's because voting is a -----RIGHT----- whereas, immigration is not. Seriously, did you not know that?

Brianb-

Even the playing field. Everyone takes care of themselves. I'd be willing to bet that those entitled people would find work toot sweet.

I am sure you are just saying out loud what most Republicans really believe, that those who are unemployed or under-employed could really find a job if they just looked hard enough. That they could be millionaires and billionaires if they just worked harder, had "personal responsibility" and would "take care of their lives".

What a sad and pathetic statement.

Maybe you should go tell all the kids dependent on school lunches for their one meal of the day that if their parents would just be more responsible they could eat today.

Maybe you should tell the elderly on fixed incomes that if they had just worked harder they could afford to heat their homes.

Maybe you should tell the single mother that if she had more "personal responsibility" she wouldn't need food stamps to feed her family.

I truly hope you never lose your job or find yourself in a situation where you have to figure out how to take care of your family. If you do I pray there are people more compassionate than you that will help out.

From Deroy Murdock -- a black syndicated columnist. All of you should be outraged at the lies and deceit and the UTTER INCOMPETENCE!!!!!!

Could anyone tell me what Michelle is doing with her hand and Obama's tallywhacker in the picture???? LMAO

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/328675/barack-obama-slacker-chief-deroy-murdock

Barack Obama: Slacker-in-Chief
He has higher priorities than attending to domestic and foreign policy.

By Deroy Murdock

Concerning the fun parts of his job, Barack Obama resembles the Energizer Bunny. If there are crowds to wow, entertainers to schmooze, or donors to pitch, Obama is Johnny on the Spot. Too bad his sparks stop flying when it comes time for the serious heavy lifting of the presidency.

This phenomenon’s most chilling example involves Obama’s national-security-related Presidential Daily Brief (PDB). As the Government Accountability Institute (GAI) calculated, and Washington Post columnist Marc Thiessen first reported, Obama attended only 43.8 percent of his PDBs between January 23, 2009 (three days after his inauguration), and May 31, 2012. Available nearly every day, the PDB allows the commander-in-chief to hear directly from top intelligence professionals about the latest threats to U.S. safety. These experts are on hand to answer questions, hear suggestions, and otherwise help Obama foil America’s enemies.

But Obama has had higher priorities.

According to GAI’s data, which was culled from the official White House calendar and Politico’s news coverage of that schedule, Obama chose to skip his PDBs and, instead, simply read his briefing book. This is a bit like studying one’s chest X-rays at home, having spurned a radiologist’s offer to interpret them and answer pertinent questions. In this sense, Obama quietly reviewed his national-security X-rays alone during 56.2 percent of the time GAI analyzed. In 2011, Obama missed 61.6 percent of his PDBs.

Obama skipped his PDBs between September 5 and 11, the entire week before the American consulate in Benghazi suffered an Islamic terror attack that killed U.S. ambassador J. Christopher Stevens, technical officer Sean Smith, and former Navy SEALs Glen Doherty and Tyrone Woods. Who knows if a briefer’s classified utterance, or a particularly astute question from Obama, might have triggered tighter security in Benghazi and perhaps prevented the murders of four Americans?

TNSEVOL said: The Romney statement is full of the things Republicans seem to love - disdain for the less fortunate, contempt for supporters of president Obama, a dismissal of their obligation to care for others, and a reaffirmation that they are better than "those people".

What a crock of sh!t. Talk about taking something, running with it, not looking, ::SMACK:: running directly into a solid wall.

Do you always paint people with such a broad stroke, or is this your attempt at patronizing your fellow liberals? Who EVER said that government is supposed to take care of others? Do you even know the function of government? What the liberals have done is give our treasury to the people in order to create a voting block for their side. All Americans pay dearly for this. The generous liberals are using the excuse that republicans are uncaring. Again it's a crock! If it were up to liberals, all of the revenue the government takes in would be given to those in need... sure! Use up government funds to give to those less fortunate.

I'm not a republican, but I take offense to your premise. Just because liberals feel it's OK to use other people's money to help the poor does not make that right. If you want to help the poor, donate to charities... they are better suited to help poor people anyway.

That's because voting is a -----RIGHT----- whereas, immigration is not. Seriously, did you not know that?

Voting in US elections is a right for American citizens. So how do you protect my right

Chef Darrell --

he only paid lip service to gay marriage. Where is the steak behind the sizzle?

Cliches are nice and all of that, but I do believe that taking a principled stand not to defend DOMA in court represents the steak.

but I fervently believe it is a state's issue, not a federal one.

Fervently? Well, then, tell me why. Articulate a good reason beyond nattering incoherently about tax revenue. You talk about a couple moving from one state to another so they can marry. But what happens if a gay couple is married in Massachusetts, for example, and moves to Wisconsin? Should they lose recognition of their marriage? What possible sense does that make? Why is it a fundamental right in one state, but not another state?

By the way, what does "taxing and spending" versus "slashing and spending" have to do with "defending our freedoms"?

It's pretty easy to see what you value, isn't it? And it's not "freedom."

Sarah-3043284 - "I'm just too afraid of Romney to risk my vote"

Look at the polls, Obama is a lock. I wouldn't even vote if I were you.

Feisty A bonus drink will be allowed every time Mitt says "and so forth" and "if you will".

The libs must be cheating for some reason Mitts message isn't get through. He needs to do something bold like push a handicapped person over and wipe his shoes on their shirt or fire one of his servants and then joke about it during the debate.

Sarah -

P.S. Just moved to DC and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a Nats/Tigers World Series. That would be AWWEEESOOOMMMEEEE!!!!!

I don't normally disagree with you but a Tigers/Reds World Series would be much better..... my brother lives near DC so I am okay with a Nats/Reds NLCS!

Dingle: I am voting for the only candidate that is saying that, Gary Johnson

A noble gesture. Unfortunately he's not going to win. But you are correct in that until voters start to choose country over their own self interests, the problems will persist.

YD: I have speculated that with an Obama win, the democrats will move/or should move towards some of those recommendations after the election.

I'd really like to see the evidence that supports that speculation. Obama stiff-armed that committee from day one and has never referred to their findings or recommendations.

I also understand that without the repeal of the Bush Tax cuts we will continue to dig a hole in the deficit.

Please, the Obama Tax cuts.

It doesn't add up.

It only adds up if the growth of tax revenue collected from an increased GDP exceeds the current federal spending. I do not believe you can tax your way to prosperity.

Excellent comment, Anna Molly!

The GOP puppet masters and their lackeys Limbaugh, Murdoch, Beck, et al. have succeeded in controlling the minds of many who have been kept purposely uneducated, underpaid, and frightened out of their little wits.

Whatever happened to the Land of the FREE and the Home of the BRAVE?

The GOP has tried to take it all away. We will not let them do it.

OBAMA/BIDEN NOVEMBER 6 (or sooner if your state allows early voting)

So how do you protect my right

By not expanding the state's power, by passing suppression laws, without a compelling reason. By making the state show a rate of in person voter fraud, higher then .0002%, prior to enacting laws that disenfranchise poor people, elderly, students, and minorities. By not allowing the government to circumvent the presumption of innocence, on the off chance and without any proof, that there is a necessity for them to.

I'm assuming you're none of those, but if they can do it to them, they can do it to you too.

Morgs,

To quote another great Michigander...

"I was born at night, but not last night, baby!"

-Kid Rock

Got a problem comprehending the "less than" and "more than" concepts Jack? Why yes you do.

Still a Junior Leaguer you are.

This site is his league HAHAHAHA.

Just because liberals feel it's OK to use other people's money to help the poor does not make that right.

just see those Hollywood morons that think this as well. Problem is none of them are sending in extra IRS payments. Right Warren Buffet? Its easy to take the position of advocating taking from someone else. Do as I say, not as I do. Me Firsters should really be a label of progressives.

So Sarah you mean to tell me that Dimitri Petrov, Ukrainian nationalist and non US citizen walks in and votes and you tell me that it cant happen? All he has to do is say he's james smith. How do you prove voter fraud?

I truly hope you never lose your job

TNSEVOL,

The irony is, Brianb did lose his job and was out of work for a long tiime (and may still be). He's a bitter person who blamed (blames) Obama for not putting him back to work. Doubly ironic, that.

Smiff,

Less people are paying federal taxes, and in 47% of the cases, none, just because they can't earn a living.

And now you say:

Got a problem comprehending the "less than" and "more than" concepts Jack?

Sorry, it won't wash. You're insinuating that 47% of people can't earn a living. You said it. Live with it.

TNSEVOL said: I am sure you are just saying out loud what most Republicans really believe, that those who are unemployed or under-employed could really find a job if they just looked hard enough

I did. Why can't others? Took me a month of continual searching, submitting resume's and waiting, but I did it. It's not that there aren't jobs out there to be had... but I was being very specific in what I chose. I could have accepted other work, but knowing my job field so well, I had to be specific. I could have had a job within a couple of weeks... if I weren't so picky. But I knew if I waited the right job would land at my feet. The conditions would have changed for me if I were desperate. Fortunately I wasn't and could hold off for the right job.

@Ben 1.90: Deroy Murdock is an idiot. He also maintains that Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11...

It would be SO much better if you guys got your facts from people other than raving lunatics...

Sara? Gary Johnson? Really? Seriously?

Just moved to Washington DC? The lowest level of hell and damnation? The godless land of bilk and money?

Ok, that's it, you're out of the will.

Obama/Biden 2012

Tsk Tsk Tsk. You're nose is getting as long as Romney's. It took you more than a month. We put up with your whining for a very long time.

Brianb-

You obviously did not listen to Romney's statement or the defense of his statements by Republicans both on this website and elsewhere.

My job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.."

What part of that did you not understand? Romney was not saying he would work to get people off welfare, or facilitate additional jobs, or try to motivate or educate "those people" - he wrote them off as not worthy of his concern because they would never change.

Romney was also not saying that about SOME of the people on government assistance, he was saying it about ALL of them - 47% of Americans - including ANYONE who supports President Obama or ANYONE who doesn't pay Federal Income Tax.

Like I said - Inaccurate, Demeaning, and Divisive.

Congrats on finding a job, although I am disappointed that the experience led you to believe that "if I can do it so can anyone else". I can't hit a 90 mph fastball, no matter how hard I try or work at it.

There are thousands of people who lack the skills, education or experience to find a job in the current market. My prior employer just laid off 50 workers and moved their operations to Florida. So now there are at least 20 people over 50 years-old looking for work in a tight job market. Not so Easy.

Raving lunatics are in the eyes of the beholder and your side has plenty. Besides Murdock is extremely correct on this one.

Grandpa Skip,

LOL. Don't worry, the bilk and honey is on the opposite side of town, from where I can afford to live. My liberal, elitist, education, is putting me in the poor house.

Who's got two thumbs and is a member of the 47%.... AH, THIS GIRL!

Jack in Portsmouth said:

I truly hope you never lose your job

TNSEVOL,

The irony is, Brianb did lose his job and was out of work for a long tiime (and may still be). He's a bitter person who blamed (blames) Obama for not putting him back to work. Doubly ironic, that.

Yeah Jack... you hit the nail right on the head. NOT! YOU find me bitter because I won't embrace your liberal views as acceptable. Don't ever think I will, either... because they aren't.

My job expired. That's why I lost it. I was out of work for approximately a month in real time. You have NO idea what my career field is, and what happens to actually lose a job. I didn't blame Obama for my job loss, but I do blame him for creating a very hostile unemployment situation through his policies.

I realize Jack that you like to pander to your liberal friends... means you are a follower, not a leader. Keep on sucking up.. you do well at it.

but I do believe that taking a principled stand not to defend DOMA in court represents the steak.

Not being against something is not the same as being for something.

Fervently? Well, then, tell me why.

Because I don't buy into the hatred and bigotry. Unlike some, I don't feel the need to put labels on people and tell them that the big bad bogeyman is trying to oppress them.

By the way, what does "taxing and spending" versus "slashing and spending" have to do with "defending our freedoms"?

It's all in how they appropriate and where they allocate the funding. One side want to take from those that do and give to those who do not. The other side wants to take less from those that do and encourage those that do not to join the group that does.

It's pretty easy to see what you value, isn't it? And it's not "freedom."

Considering I am a veteran, I think you are way off base as to what I do and do not value. It's pretty arrogant of you to presume ANYTHING about me.

Dingle: I am voting for the only candidate that is saying that, Gary Johnson

A noble gesture. Unfortunately he's not going to win.

Neither is Romney.

As is generally the case, folks here from both ends of the political spectrum seem to agree with many of Gov. Johnson's positions, but are unwilling to "waste" their vote on him. As a republican governor of blue state, New Mexico, Johnson had very high approval ratings and was elected to a second term.

We don't have to vote for the lesser of two evils, when another viable option exists. If continue voting for the lesser of two evils, we'll always be left with evil in the end.

@D. Walker - Bravo, and you nailed that one. The posters you reference along with the other fanatical right-wing posters spend 24/7 hunting and pecking for any excuse to post negative Obama critiques. Why hell, if Obama said "Bless You" in response to a sneeze, they would spin it into a Sympathy Tour and War on Religion, all wrapped into one warped talking point. The very fact that Obama breaths the same air as you and I is somehow proof he is a socialist (shared air and all that).

Yet curiously, what none of these posters have ever, ever once done is tell us how Romney will improve the economy, foreign relations, and all those other presidential obligations. Sure, we know they hate the 47% as much as Romney and Ryan, along with all other non-conforming groups (Muslims, gays, women), but hatred and implementation of policies designed to promote that hatred do not tell us how a Romney/Ryan ticket improves life for all Americans.

So while those posters continue their never ending silence for their chosen candidates policies, and critique Obama's every breath, we progressives/liberals will continue to point out the obvious - Obama is the better candidate when it comes to supporting the vast majority of Americans.

I was out of work for approximately a month in real time.

What the hell does that mean--"real time"? This sounds like the "I am a Vietnam Vet" when in reality you were a Vietnam-era Vet. No matter how many times David Walker and I corrected you, you continued to claim you were a Vietnam Vet. That doesn't inspire confidence when you make other claims.

You have NO idea what my career field is

As I recall, your work is construction-related.

I didn't blame Obama for my job loss

No one is claiming you did. But I recall months of "Poor me! Poor me!" and blaming Obama for your inability to find work while you were searching for a job. And, oh yes, claiming that you never took a dime of unemployment during that period. Your bitterness was personal, blaming others for your misfortune.

Dingle,

We don't have to vote for the lesser of two evils, when another viable option exists. If continue voting for the lesser of two evils, we'll always be left with evil in the end.

True, but slightly naive. We'll never just wake up one day, and have political campaigns that aren't dominated by these two parties.

If we that to happen, which I do, you need to start with campaign reform, which is a legislative matter. Simply jumping to the possible outcome of that reform won't work. There are numerous movements afoot to take the first step, getting money out of politics. Ive included a link to one I've joined.

http://getmoneyout.com/

but I do blame him for creating a very hostile unemployment situation through his policies.

More right-wing Victimhood, blame, blame, blame. It is all they have. And what the hell is a hostile unemployment situation? Spitting at the unemployed? That is a Romney/Ryan tactic, as evidenced by his Boca Raton Elite speech.

Sarah-3043284 and DingleB

I'm voting for Independent candidate Angus King for Senate, over the Democratic candidate, however, I agree, it's too dangerous to vote for the Libertarian candidate in this election, given how close Romney/Ryan are to winning. My biggest issue is global warming, and the Republicans scare the heck out of me with their climate change denial. At least President Obama's "all of the above" strategy includes the development of renewable energy sources. Republicans act like the end of our globe as we know it is a huge joke.

Median income in MA under Romney. See how the incomes grow!!!!

@Ben,

Your numbers appear to paint a good picture until you do a little calculation that adjusts them for inflation (a common practice).

2002 - $63,328 (Year Romney was elected)

2003 - $63,312 (First year as Governor) a slight drop in buying power (IOW did not keep up with inflation)

2004 - $61,939 (another drop)

2005 - $64,536 (a pretty significant bump)

2006 (last year as Governor) - $61,721 (not only did income not keep up with inflation but fell below 2004 levels)

NOTE: These figures (from US Census) are the ones used by the Massachusetts Budget and Policy Center on their website.

Not the stellar picture you try to paint.

TNSEVOL said through his liberal lenses:

Maybe you should go tell all the kids dependent on school lunches for their one meal of the day that if their parents would just be more responsible they could eat today. Maybe we should let their parents tell them. It might motivate them to actually do something to take charge of their lives instead of relying on liberal government policies to take care of them. It's called personal responsibility... something we all should embrace.

Maybe you should tell the elderly on fixed incomes that if they had just worked harder they could afford to heat their homes. There are other means... The government is the government, not a charity.

Maybe you should tell the single mother that if she had more "personal responsibility" she wouldn't need food stamps to feed her family. That's a pretty damn good idea. Maybe if the single mother realized that the government wouldn't bail her out, she'd think twice about personal responsibility. Of course that thought never dawned on you.

I truly hope you never lose your job or find yourself in a situation where you have to figure out how to take care of your family. If you do I pray there are people more compassionate than you that will help out.

You don't have to worry about me. I am the least of your problems. I do take personal responsibility for my actions and I won't depend on the government to provide for my needs. I have safety nets in place that don't include government dependency. I will fight government intervention as much as I can... or until they put a bullet in my head.

I do realize we can't go cold turkey on entitlements. What needs to happen is a winding down of them in order to help get those that do to realize they need to start caring for themselves. Liberals always think conservatives want to simply end these programs... that wouldn't work but liberals never give us credit for thinking the problem through. Shows how much disdain liberals have for conservatives wanting less government.

ZMan..the highest price of gasoline actually was in June of 2008. However, I did see Obama changing the prices at our local stations yesterday.

Sarah-3043284

Thanks. I'll check it out, but consider me skeptical. With the current tax code, and regulatory environment, there are too reasons for money to find its way back into politics. Regardless of the money involved, voters still have the final say in this country. Grass roots will have to do for now.

Ben-636050

@Amy -- what kind of proof of residency and citizenship would you propose then?

If you voted in the last election then you should be eligible to vote this time.

Just -- There are no guarantees that income will keep up with inflation. But I would hope that you would say that being just minutely lagging behind in an upward swing is better than losing income while inflation is increasing. Just saying.

@Louie Bee -- My first reaction is huh? and so is my second for that matter. So you are saying if a person (alive or dead) votes once illegally, then it's okay?

Jack in Portsmouth said:

Tsk Tsk Tsk. You're nose is getting as long as Romney's. It took you more than a month. We put up with your whining for a very long time.

You don't read very well, do you Jack... all mouth and no comprehension. I didn't say I was out of work for a month... I said a month in real time... now what does that mean Jack? It means I did have employment between my job loss and now. Most of it was temporary and in my career field. Since you have zero knowledge of what I do for a living, you can't even comment on my work conditions although you seem to want to spout off at every opportunity... How many times can you put your foot in your mouth before you get athletes mouth?

Chef Darrell

Considering I am a veteran, I think you are way off base as to what I do and do not value.

What does being a veteran have to do with anything?

I honestly cannot wait for this election to be over. I hope that those who have been led to extremes due to the Obama Presidency may level out afterwards. With some conservatives it is now impossible to have a discussion. Yes liberals can have an idealist view, but the conservative,s foundation to their perspectives are build on nonsense nowadays. One conspiracy theory after another, how its a president's intention to destroy a company. Calling him a Communist. It has honestly become exhausting.

On another note another thing that bothers me is a constanct quip I hear from those on the right, about how the black's are racist for voting for Obama. Though the number is exremely high can you blame them? You speak like they are a stupid people. Do you think they do not understand how many of the Republican partie's policies have been aimed against their well being?

I've been told in many cases by friends I should be a Republican based on some of my economic views. These people stare at me in disbelief when I say I could never do that. No matter how hard I try to explain, I can never explain to them that many of the Republican party's actions would have made it so I never recieved the education to hold my current views. I am a person who will proudly admit my family had a lot of help along the way, my mother being a single parent who worked 2 full time jobs a majority of her life and sent 3 kids to college. I am even prouder to know we no longer need that assistance and all are on track to be established proffesionals who will gladly pay taxes to help those who faced similar struggles. I do not believe in closing the door to oppurtunity of those behind me.

It is the failure of some conservatives to understand such a view point that lead them to their current state. I truly pity those who have established a "me first" attitude.

Ben

According to Massachusetts Budget and Policy Center's Sept. 3, 2006 report, the median wage in Massachusetts fell 5% between 2003 and 2005, the worst performance in the country.

Just an observation...

We are exposed to some mentally unhinged people when we discuss politics, particularly as it relates to the poor, minorities, the elderly and women.

Maybe there is a subconscious tendency for some people to believe in the 'cull the herd' mentality? Maybe if you see your group losing power to those you have always considered inferior, it causes anger and frustration that boils over into outright hatred? Maybe what you have always taken for granted and what you have always believed needs to be reassessed.

If you look at yourself honestly and see hatred, don't let it fester. Get professional help.

If many others are telling you that you are unhinged, you should listen. If the shoe fits, wear it.

If many others are telling you that you are unhinged, you should listen.

You hear that, CA? Smiff? Brianb? WCA?

Brianb: Who EVER said that government is supposed to take care of others?

How about the gentlemen who founded the country? From the Constitution:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

P.S. Just moved to DC and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a Nats/Tigers World Series. That would be AWWEEESOOOMMMEEEE!!!!!

Welcome to the region, but an O's/Nats World Series is more likely and even more AWESOME.

Hey Fielden how many welfare programs did they start in 1783? Do you realize promoting general welfare is NOT the same as providing? Hmmm. I figured one of you progressives would attempt to use that as an excuse.

Jack in Portsmouth

If many others are telling you that you are unhinged, you should listen.

You hear that, CA? Smiff? Brianb? WCA?

sure Jackie boy. I believe there are couple sayings. First pot and the kettle and second, consider the source. Jackie just keep showing us that you are the Intellectual Giant you are.

Who would know... when someone takes home $580,000 instead of $600,000 dollars in a year its the destruction of America. Even worse that money may go to the poor or elderly. I never knew such atrociites occured in our country.

TNSEVOL said:

Congrats on finding a job, although I am disappointed that the experience led you to believe that "if I can do it so can anyone else". I can't hit a 90 mph fastball, no matter how hard I try or work at it. Thanks, but you are still looking at it through a varying degree of inaccuracy. In my job search, I came across so many jobs that don't require many skills, or a high degree of education. Granted you can't get rich on these jobs, but they will sustain someone for the amount they do pay. I can't hit a 90 MPH fastball either, but I also can't skydive and I have a fear of water. It doesn't mean that I can't use my skills to build a commercial building, or run an office.

There are thousands of people who lack the skills, education or experience to find a job in the current market. My prior employer just laid off 50 workers and moved their operations to Florida. So now there are at least 20 people over 50 years-old looking for work in a tight job market. Not so Easy. I'm older than 50 but that didn't stop me from searching and acquiring. It's unfortunate that there are so many lay-off's, but I do attribute that to a hostile government making it harder and harder for businesses to grow and expand. There are just too many regulations that hinder growth.

Marketing for the debate is in full swing. As if it was the only reason people will vote for a President. Brought to you by the media and advertising.

By the way, quoting the Huffington Post gets you as much credibility as quoting Fox News. There's no point in using facts when the whole point of your news agency is to be biased. And tough if you don't like it, because they are on EQUAL footing for unreliability in actually wanting to understand the facts they are presenting.

Baseball: Currently a better medium of competition than our political party system. I admit that Detroit might be the best team in baseball (now that the Angels are out), but I have to root for my home team, the Yankees. Even if they are driving with one flat tire right now (that tire is called pitching...)

Caesar, I would have expected nothing more from you.

The constitution is an excuse? Isn't it conservatives who are always holding up the constitution? Do you realize that to PROMOTE general welfare one has to PROVIDE some means of achieving it?

Akeem,

Fringe conservatives are nothing, if not overly dramatic. They feed off of fear.

It's "baby killing" not abortion.

They're "illegals" not undocumented.

They're "abominations" not homosexuals.

They're "terrorists" not Muslims.

They're "free loaders" not poor.

They're "socialism" not social programs.

They're "agendas" not facts.

I guess, fear is sexy and demonization of that which is different from them, makes it possible for them to maintain their defense mechanisms and superiority complexes.

Have you ever seen the movie Ferngully? Here's a clip of what I think, illustrates their hunger, for fear and hatemongering...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcfLvqzTB3o

Jack in Portsmouth said:

If many others are telling you that you are unhinged, you should listen.

You hear that, CA? Smiff? Brianb? WCA?

Look in the mirror Jack before you start pointing fingers.

fielden said:

Brianb: Who EVER said that government is supposed to take care of others?

How about the gentlemen who founded the country? From the Constitution:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

So your interpretation of "promote general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity" means that the government is supposed to provide sustenance for the needy at the taxpayer's expense??? Let's break it down for simplicity sakes:

"Promote the general welfare" - define welfare - well being, harmony, balance... doesn't mean that those that don't promote the general welfare obtain the benefits of it... hence jails, incarceration, prison... has nothing to do with providing government funds for the needy.

"Secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity" - define liberty - freedom, ability to travel freely, ability to choose our paths... How in the hell can you even come close with this one to providing for the needy at taxpayers expense?

You will have to explain your logic to me Felden. I don't find any connection at all.

According to the news media, every vote since the first state was campaigned in, was the deciding factor in the final vote. Must be their duty to keep everything as the deciding factor, when the biggest deciding factor so often is who collected the most campaign money.

Keys to the White House:

A historically based prediction system developed by American historian Allan Lichtman and Russian

scientist Vladmir Keilis-Borok (an authority on mathematics of prediction models), developed a method

whereby 13 true/false questions could be asked to determine the winner of the Presidential election.

Applied retrospectively from 1860 to 1996 and since 1996 to the present, this model has 100% accuracy

in predicting the winner of these elections. The model is predicated on the power of the

incumbent Presidency and discounts any campaigning by either the challenger or the incumbent. On the

basis of 13 true or false questions, this model has been 100% accurate. If 6 or more questions are rated

false the challenger wins, if five or less the incumbent wins. Pretty cut and dried, let's take a look:

1. Party Mandate: After the midterms election, the incumbent party holds more seats in the U.S. House of

Representatives than after the previous mid term elections. False.

2. Contest: There is no serious contest for the incumbent party nomination. True.

3. Incumbency: The incumbent party candidate is the sitting President. True.

4. Third party: There is no significant third party or independent campaign. True.

5. Short term economy: The economy is not in recession during the election campaign. True.

6. Long term economy: Real per capita growth equals or exceeds mean growth during the previous two

terms. False.

7. Policy Change: The incumbent administration effects major changes in national policy. True.

8. Social Unrest: There is no sustained social unrest during the term. True.

9. Scandal: The incumbent administration is untainted by major scandal. True.

10. Foreign/Military Failure: The incumbent campaign suffers no major failure in foreign/military affairs.
True.

11.Foreign/Military Success: The incumbent administration achieves a major success in foreign/military

affairs. True.

12. Incumbent Charisma: The incumbent party candidate is charismatic or a national hero. True.

13. Challenger Charisma: The challenging party candidate is not charismatic or a national hero. True.

Well, there you have it, get out and vote because nothing is set in stone and there's a first time for

everything. But basically, enjoy the next four years of an Obama presidency. I know I will.

Rombot.Has.Nothing. As we will all soon find out.

Why would anyone vote for the Communist-in-Chief ? Obama has already proven that he is a liar and untrustworthy. He is still sending our taxpayer's money to these terrorist countries that are providing the terrorist with money to buy weapons, ammunition and explosives that are killing our soldiers and will be used against us.

Obama doesn't even use his REAL name or admit that his REAL father is Frank Marshall Davis that was a registered active member of the communist party and Obama's mentor.

Make your vote count, VOTE FOR ROMNEY - RYAN 2012. Keep our country free.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you exhibit A, post #1.42. (Told you so)

But I would hope that you would say that being just minutely lagging behind in an upward swing is better than losing income while inflation is increasing.

Well Ben,

According to the US Census Bureau median income rose $777 from 2010 to 2011.

2008-2009 : -$526

2009-2010 : -$500

2010-2011 : +$777

Seems things are in fact turning around.

1.42 is advertising.

There's a lot of that going on here at Newsvine.

Its a close race because corporate media wants to continue to feed from the PAC money.

You dont bite the hand that feeds you.

Frank "Grimey" Grimes, Springfield, USA; way back at #1.34 you posted:

. . every year since I have been old enough to vote (admittedly only since 1996), I've heard the same thing: THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION OF OUR LIFETIME! Our country cannot survive four more years with this President! Or...Our country's survival depends on re-electing this President! Etc, etc, etc.

Somehow, our country is still here despite all those dire predictions.

To those who have seen more elections than I...has it always been like this??

The first presidential election that my husband and I could vote in [we had been married only two months] was at the height of a truly difficult time in our nation's history. In 1968 the Viet Nam "conflict" was still raging, race relations were strained and the election was not only between Nixon and Humphrey, but also George Wallace. Couldn't elect Johnson again -- would Humphrey [Johnson's VP] follow the same path? -- would "Tricky Dick" lead us down a different dangerous path? [We now know how that Nixon thing panned out -- which is why, after we voted, I cooked liver for husband's dinner -- since he voted for Nixon!]

There's been support for our particular candidate [usually the party of our parents -- kinda' like religion] but less gung-ho, outspoken interest in politics in general by the post-war baby boomers. Sadly, today's political picture is so much more IN-YOUR-FACE -- all vestiges of respect and common decency have been abandoned. The venom that is spewed, under the anonymity of the internet, is what is truly dividing us.

As a grandchild of immigrant Hungarians [who joined Poles and Irish, Slovaks and Germans, and so many more to make this country a better place] I fear that the hatefulness we show towards one another would make them all question "What is this world coming to?"

Don't let facts or verbatim transcripts get in your way.

You mean a verbatim transcript like this, Jack?

"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe that government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what."

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/full-transcript-mitt-romney-secret-video

Again, Why would anybody in the middle class vote for Obama and tell it like it is Biden? Remember Joe says the middle class has been BURIED under Obama! The smartest thing Ole Joe has ever said!

Will president Obama reveal himself.......probably not because it would be the end of his carrier. The media bias mastered to prevent the real Obama came afloat, the biggest cover up in history that only few things , the ones the media and the Democrat apparatus want people to know about their President. The last racist video never played shows the racist Obama, his credential of African American provide by Rev. Writhe when he join the racist Church that promote Black Liberation in order to prosper in politics, including his marriage to an African American ( Samuel Jackson deny the authenticity slave American descendant , of Obama, son of a Kenyan citizen and a white mother) ) after years dating whites girls, what are the accomplishment that help Obama to be elected in the first time , other than the help from his communist Godfather , all this is covered by the media. Since then there is no accomplishment as repentant in congress other than vote present. Obama has no credentials to be president and never had, other than be a " nice people"

We don't need just a nice people , we need a leader.

Romney 2012

Unfortunately, the dumbing down of America is well under way. Many American's, especially liberals, have become self-absorbed and intellectually handicapped by a sort of "fast food style decision making process" driven primarily by short sound bites of single issue constituency rhetoric. Respected Democratic presidents such as JFK would roll over in their grave if they could see what Obama has done to our country and to the once proud Democratic party.

Beyond the obvious moral decay accelerated at an exponential rate by this president, the economic damage he has done lays in wait like an iceberg on a dark ocean night. Ninety percent of risk is lurking below the surface and remains invisible to those consumed by this "fast food style decision making process" and short sound bite single issue constituency rhetoric!

Obama induced debt (deficit spending) acts like a cancer on our nation and American society. Cancer grows and cannot be contained without serious and often invasive treatment. The cure itself poses serious side effects. We can look to Greece as a sort of microcosm of what Obama is doing to America with what may go down in history as the "most reckless fiscal policy in the history of the industrialized world".

China and others have warned America and the world about the inherent risk in Obama policies, but it appears it will take yet another credit downgrade and perhaps a complete economic collapse for some Americans to wake up to the "harsh and frightening reality" of America's future should Obama be reelected! STOP OBAMA NOW!

Sarah I will have to check out that clip while not at work..

But YES! Exactly what you said is true.

Look, I get it no one wants to pay higher taxes. But when you shift the argument from the very simple question "should the wealthiest of Americans, who are now being taxed at historic lows have a 1-5% increase in their highest Marginal rate" to " do you want to halt innovation, punish success, end the American dream and bring communism to this country" I call you crazy. I think that is only fair.

I just do not get how some Republicans/Conservatives, many who are very educated, very smart, and very reasonable iterpret what I said in my first question in to the latter. Once that assertion has been made no productive conversation can happen from there. We will be to busy arguing the difference in the statements rather than the issue itself.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that Romney will again be reciting RWNJ talking points.

Obama/Biden 2012

ClearVoice... do you even see the hypocrisy in what you wrote? That part you mentioned about deeper thinking, well let me ask you a few questions and give you a moment to think deeply. What are the largest cost driving the deficit? The Republican candidate is offering a large round of tax cuts. What does that do to a deficit?

You call it Obama's deficit spending? You can criticize Obama's handling of the debt, I may not agree with you but you can do it, but to claim Democrats/Obama own "deficit spending is not an example of "deep thinking"

Everyone.........Take off your political ad hats them aside. Take those party line blinders off too. Now sit down tonight as if you have never heard of these two candidates and you have no idea of thier history. After the debate evaluate what you heard and saw from each fairly with an open mind. Fight off the political retoric we have all been subject too. Most of that stuff has anything to do with reality just propoganda to make you want to buy it like an ad for luandry soap. If we all do this perhaps we will actually vote for the best person for the job.

This is my hope for this country for each position that is open in this election. Of course it won't happen . most of you are so hell bent on voting party line you forget you are first and formost an American and not a Democrat or Republican or third party. you will forget about the majority of things at stake to apease the few things that affect you. Voters are casting vote based on personal benefit not what is best for us all. We have to stop being so selfish if we are ever going to see our country come back.

So comical. Notice as soon as one of these threads is opened a DIP@!$%#OCRAT has the first comment? How many extra food stamps you getting, to sit on your a##, and post your negative lifeless views on this Libtard a## website? Get a life.

I see all you libs are already drinking your adult beverages,that includes the Chuck Todds and his cohorts, to celebrate Romneys loss. Do I detect a little angst in Chuckies story, because the polls are tightening in Fla. and Va?. The only state that Romney might as well pull out of is Ohio, because he is wasting his time there? Here is what I read into this, the polls are skewed in favor of Obama, and Romney is in reality, ahead of Obama and Chuckie Todd is worried sick about the outcome. Now, Feisty, prove me wrong.

The right wants to laugh at Biden. But what is everyone talking about today. The middle class being buried. People know who buried them and when it started. They also know what has been done to help the economy in the last two years. The right is so easy.

For those that believe Romney will be specific and Presidential, tell me how he is going to answer this question.

Both you and your wife have said that releasing your tax returns will give your oponets something to attack you with. What are some of the entries for which you would be attacked?

President Obama = Win Ohio & Colorado = Re-election 2012

The GNOP/Tea Baggers/Right Wing Nut Job's are facing a mountain in 4 to 8 years due to the Hispanics population that votes Democratic.

What are you going to do next shoot every Hispanic you see? I think not. Either you deal with the minority population or go to a corner and Shut the F up.

The current Black population 43 million in 2030 84 million. What the F will you do then?

On top of that the Hispanic growth rate will boom over the next 18 years.

On top of all that the white population will contribute less and less and once 2030 hit that amount will be ZERO!!!!!!!! you hear me ZERO!!!!!!!!

Let's face it you have to deal with people of a different race in order to survive.

Of course you want to delay the inevitable, that understanding but it is futile.

JUST ASK CHUCK TODD IF YOU THINK I AM LYING.

Well, OK Sarah, you're back in the will. (Gary Johnson? Really?) The next time I'm on a secret mission to Washington DC I'll take you out for a good meal. Don't worry, I'm safe. At my age I'm more interested in fine dining than young women.

Enjoy the debate, I"ll be at my chess club but I know Rush will update me in the morning. :-)

Obama/Biden 2012

Fore....

A problem with just one of your goofy test questions pretty much mucks up the whole thing.

#10..."The incumbent campaign suffers no major failure in foreign/military affairs."..."True" ????

Have you been catching the news over the past month ? Read anything about Russia or China lately ? President Obama's single act of saying "OK" to our military's attack on Bin Laden in Pakistan and having a 15% civilian murder rate on his drone attacks do not a successful foreign policy make. Folks like you would have been protesting at the White House had George Bush been sending all those "85% accurate" drones to do the dirty work.

Things working out in the Middle East...where they burn pictures of Mr. Obama, burn our flag, and chant "Death to America" ???

In the newspaper today, there is a story about our Middle East embassies asking for more security personnel before September 11th...and they were denied that extra protection.

And it is very clear now that Mr. Obama has not been in attendence at well over half (60%) of his own National Security briefings....he likely feels that he's so smart that he doesn't need to hear what's going on, when there's nothing in his background that even suggests he is half that smart.

You're satified with this mess we now have ??? If so, it renders your test and your point as 'moot'.

just see those Hollywood morons that think this as well. Problem is none of them are sending in extra IRS payments. Right Warren Buffet? Its easy to take the position of advocating taking from someone else. Do as I say, not as I do. Me Firsters should really be a label of progressives.

CA, what's in Romney's taxes that's so bad that he can't show the nation where his money comes from and where it goes? It's kind of comical that a man who insults 47% of the country for not paying federal income taxes goes to such length to avoid paying income taxes. "it's really American to avoid paying taxes, legally," says Mitch McConnell. So, if seniors, veterans, the disabled and other people who might be on the ragged edge are too poor to pay federal income taxes, then they think they are victims who live off the govt and think they're entitled to things like food and shelter. Mitt says it's not his job to worry about trying to get their vote because he'll never get it.

So which is it? Are the 47% a bunch of moochers, as Mitt suggests? Or are they "great Americans" like Mitt?

By the way, the argument about extra payments to the IRS is silly. Really silly. Of course, you know why.

So Sarah you mean to tell me that Dimitri Petrov, Ukrainian nationalist and non US citizen walks in and votes and you tell me that it cant happen? All he has to do is say he's james smith. How do you prove voter fraud?

Voter impersonation is exceedingly rare and a stupid way to try to steal an election. Very briefly, here's why:

The fake person would have to not only know that someone else wouldn't be voting, but would have to know their polling place and hope that the voter was not known to the poll worker. Yep, that's what tripped up your boy O'Keefe. No ID needed. He got busted all on his own.

OK, so perhaps a few people could get away with it. In heavily populated urban areas, where the voting line might be several hours long, how many fake voters do you really think can get through the lines?

Fraud via impersonation is inefficient and one of the dumbest ways to steal an election.

Voter ID laws don't actually stop anything, except make it harder for people to vote.

Sarah...

False credit to 'Kid Rock', who invents very little.

I heard that line 30 years ago on the old 'Hill Street Blues' and have used it a couple times since. Never give credit to anyone who uses a fake name...like on this website !

Tony Lotsa' Numbers:

You have to get it up to 6 (six) dude, not 1. Even with your objection, that's still only three.

Seizure Disgustabus:

The government was handing out land grants, pensions and widow's benefits to soldiers since the

Revolutionary War. I guess the 47% has been around longer than you thought. (Better loosen up the

tin foil under your dunce cap.) Because..SCHOOL.IS.OUT. DING!

4 more 4 44.

All I want the People get from the debate is the stark difference between Obama (progressive, socialist, Communist Gov. where the Gov. picks the winners and losers, known as wealth redistribution) or Romney ( free markets, small business, small Gov., get public sector unions under control, less Gov. spending, address the $16 TRILLION debt). This could be our last chance, vote for what's good for the U.S.A!!!!

I am not inclinded to go to the local pet shop and bring home a skunk because they were out of puppies. Unfortunately for America, it appears liberals don't seem to know the difference!

jim...

I visit here for the entertainment value !!! For the past three years I've been expecting a new television sitcom to hit the airwaves that mirrors what's been going on in the White House...the comic material is endless.

Fore...

Actually, I had already spent enough time thinking about your goofy quiz...no need to revisit it...it's interest level was minimal.

This is my hope for this country for each position that is open in this election. Of course it won't happen . most of you are so hell bent on voting party line you forget you are first and formost an American and not a Democrat or Republican or third party. you will forget about the majority of things at stake to apease the few things that affect you. Voters are casting vote based on personal benefit not what is best for us all. We have to stop being so selfish if we are ever going to see our country come back.

I agree with your sentiments up to a point. I consider myself an independent but fervently support Obama and other progressives.

Unfortunately, we will never see the 'real' Mitt Romney, not on the debate stage tonight nor anywhere else, ever. He is an unknowable entity, pandering and lying without a moment's hesitation. Watching his 'performance' in the debates is not enough.

Fortunately, our presidential election process is extended and grueling. The candidates and their spouses are put to the test, examined, attacked, and picked apart. How else could a diverse nation of over 140 million voters choose the leader of the free world?

My advice to voters is to inform yourselves about economics. Get your information from multiple sources. Separate fact from campaign rhetoric. Evaluate the candidates on their actions as well as their words. Most of all, think for yourselves.

Our form of government is based on the belief that the common man has the intelligence and the common sense to choose his own leaders. We are the keepers of democracy. We carry that flame, or we drop it. It's all up to us.

OBAMA/BIDEN 2012

And In This election, Vote for Prez O to Send the republicanEliteAristocrats and their Soldiers like MittTaxpittanceRommel and his sideKickEddiMunster Out of Business. HERE IS an Important link Samuel L. Jackson setup to Wake US All UP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og35U0d6WKY&feature=player_detailpage

Just wanted to pop in and give a wave to my "Libbie" friends, and a pleasant hello to all. >:o):

----------------------------------------------------

Feisty:

Now for the fun part, I propose having a shot of your favorite adult beverage every time Willard says; "I don't know... but"!

I have plenty of *popcorn* for everyone! ;o)

----------------------------------------------

Hehehe , I was thinking of doing a shot of rum, but really don't wanna get that sh!t faced.LOL

Think I'll do bong hits instead, That way the worst that can happen is a bad case of the munchies. Nothing Popcorn and Scooby snacks won't cure. Plus, no hangover. LOL

Will think of ya with smiles tonight while watching. Please toss popcorn my way.(I do great catch tricks) woooof anyway, I think the munchies will attack early this evening.

Much Love n Happy Viewing,

Da Pup

>:o): PurrRrRrrRrRRrrRRrrrrrrr

Tony "Done thinkin' 'bout it":

The facts are a stinging b!tch slap in the face, aren't they?

Because it isn't my test, it's experts that have been 100% accurate.

Take that home and suck it a while. You know you want to.

Phantom...

You supply an actor's idiotic rant as a 'positive' in your Obamagasm ??? And you think it's "Important" ???

Wow !!! Got any YouTube links from any other self-promoting Hollywood bobbleheads or is Mr. Jackson's stupid bleating the best of the bunch ???

Fore...

So I take it that you are one of those educated "adult" liberal Democrats that others should learn from and emulate.

Either that or just a foul-mouthed simpleton. Either way...it's not working.

Tony 2687690U812:

If there was a single perjorative, curse or scatalogical verbiage there, I missed

it.

But you might be a Teapublican simpleton who cannot logically defend their own

arguments, you know like little Seizure, brianb, J. A. Smiffy, mangewolf, ben

lotsa' numbers, Bill in Fairfax et. al.

You cannot dispute a record of 152 years (38 Presidential elections) of 100%

accuracy. And it's of so little interest you only posted 3 times. So, get a grip

and enjoy...

4 more 4 44.

I'll try to 'get a grip'...you get a'grip' on your test...nobody seemed to care much about it and you act like you invented the internet for the benefit of mankind. Nothing is "100%" accurate when answers are subjective, like your answer to #10 or whatever question I'd commented on.

Tony in Total Denial:

The record speaks for itself.

I didn't invent the internet, I just enhance with my presence. You know, like

Fabreeze in your lair of ignorance and denial.

Frank Grimes... "To those who have seen more elections than I...has it always been like this?" I've been watching this circus for over seven decades and, unfortunately, Frank, the answer is a resounding YES! Pick up on a copy of "A People's History of The United States" by the late Howard Zinn. It's probably (hopefully) at your local library. Perhaps "Fairfax Bill" should read it as well.

ZMan2012... Hey! We're only at 30,000 feet. D'ya wanna' crank that window down a little? "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

Sarah... I see you're back here making sense once again. Are you trying to deliberately confuse some of these folks? LOL!

Bill, Fairfax VA

A Buried Middle Class

After the dust settled Biden tried to minimize the damage by resorting to the tired talking point that it's all George Bush's fault. Yes indeed, what we're supposed to believe is that the evil Bush screwed things up so much that even a master wizard like Obama hasn't been able to fix things yet. Anyone with a brain recognizes that as absolute nonsense. Closer to the truth is the abject incompetence of the Obama administration when it comes to advancing policies that have the best chance of supporting sustainable economic growth.

Hahahahaha. What a bunch of bull@!$%#. First of all, this is the worst recession SINCE THE GREAT DEPRESSION. Remember history class??? The Great Depression last 10 YEARS!!! Ours is gonna last for at least 5-6 years. And on top of that, at least FDR (and Hoover, to an extent) decided to spend money in order to improve the economy. The last time we had anything close to a stimulus package was the ARRA of 2009, and while it did lift it out of the depression it was not enough to build a sustainable recovery. And by the way, financial crises are the worst recessions because they last longer.

So it's always perplexing to me how these loons try to push themselves as champions of the middle class – and even more perplexing that so many low information dolts actually buy into that. Because the middle class hasn't been particularly helped by unemployment that has remained stubbornly high or by the increasing cost of health insurance or by higher gas prices or by declining incomes or by $5 trillion in new debt, just to mention a few things that haven't worked out during Obama's watch. Nope, as Joe pointed out so colorfully, things such as these have actually helped to bury the middle class.

Oh very funny. You Republicans LOVE to bitch about how your policies will create jobs and grow the economy, even when that turns out to be false. Tax cuts didn't work for George W. Bush, and he had a relatively small recession; what makes you think Romney can lift us out of a depression with a $5 trillion tax cut that will blow up the @!$%#ing deficit??? And by the way, the deficit would have been high EVEN IF Republicans controlled the government.

So the real no spin message for the buried middle class is quite clear: Vote like your life depends on it, vote Republican.

Yeah, like more tax cuts for the rich, deregulation, and more trickle-down economics are gonna do what George W. Bush's tax cuts for the rich, deregulation, and trickle-down economics....

Brianb1956

I have an idea that the liberals will all faint at. How about if the government stopped subsidizing and benefiting the top tier... but at the same time, the government cancelled all it's programs for the entitled? Programs like welfare, food stamps, heating subsidies, cell phones, government housing, free child care, and other low income benefits all paid for by taxpayers. Just think of the extra revenue that would flood in to help the government? Let the poor people take care of themselves while at the same time corporations and rich people forego their so called tax breaks. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

The problem with your "proposal" is that you are making the economic assumption that both the rich and the poor are relatively well off in American society. That essentially means that we live in a very egalitarian economy, which is both the antithesis of capitalism AND the opposite of the truth. If I was a rich man, I would definitely go to America. If I was poor, I wouldn't live in America. As a rich man, I'd benefit from social services and pay a relatively low tax rate; if I was poor, I wouldn't pay a lot in taxes, but I would make very little and have to be on the hook for health insurance if I don't qualify for Medicaid. Even if I was middle class, I'd be in a tight spot; while America has great opportunities, chances are I'd have to scrimp and save just to pay for health insurance, not to mention the growing costs of college. The rich can easily exist without benefits like tax preferences and subsidies; the poor can't. You try paying for health insurance and saving for college while making $30,000 a year (and that's above the poverty line) and raising a family of four.

Even the playing field. Everyone takes care of themselves. I'd be willing to bet that those entitled people would find work toot sweet.

What you're proposing is something akin to insanity. While I do admit that there is at least some fraud and improper payments in welfare, and that the wealthiest Americans have gotten too good a deal over the past 30 century, I cannot agree to undoing over 80 years of effort and progress. How the hell can you justify eliminating the entire social safety, the minimal requirements of not just a welfare state but of a developed economy??? The elimination of the social safety net would turn America's poor into the most impoverished social class in the developed world. Why the hell should we take away the Medicaid coverage of a poor family just because some millionaire doesn't get his tax break??? The rich have had it good for 30 long years; everyone else has been screwed. You can see that in the stagnation of median incomes even as productivity rises AND in the growing income inequality that has arisen from the abject failure that is supply-side economics.

Actually the largest benefit would be not having to listen to the liberals complain about the rich any longer.

Yes, because then you'd have to listen to the sounds of poor people rioting in the streets and causing a terror that will make the French Revolution pale in comparison. And no, those rioters would not be protesting because the government won't take care of them; they will be protesting because their government, which they pay for in taxes (yes, the poor pay taxes) and entrust with the role of leading the nation, will have abandoned them because some rich man couldn't stand the poor receiving help while he couldn't get a @!$%#ing tax cut.

OBAMA BIDEN 2012