Romney: Did Obama raise taxes?

Romney has an ad out saying Obama and Democrats will and already have raised taxes on the middle class.

Fact check: President Obama did raise some taxes in his first term, cut them by more, and imposes new taxes that will take effect by 2014 to help pay for his health-care bill. Obama has raised taxes on cigarettes (to pay for the children’s health care program) and tanning (used in part to pay for the president’s health-care plan). The president also cut taxes by even more. But he DID NOT raise income taxes; in fact, he extended the Bush tax cuts (which reduced revenues by about $800 billion), temporarily cut the payroll tax, and the stimulus, which was comprised of 40 percent tax cuts, cut taxes for 90 percent of the country.

On balance, as one fact checker wrote: “just about every one of the more than 100 million taxpayers, no matter how little they made, has ended up with at least $1,000 in tax cuts under Obama in the past three years.” The only people who have seen an effective tax increase were unemployed smokers and unemployed tanners. By next year and 2014, however, some other tax increases will go into effect to pay for the health-care plan, including higher Medicare taxes, a surcharge on investment income of the wealthy, and taxes on medical devices. All of that could raise as much as $400 billion. And, of course, the Supreme Court determined that the mandate, requiring all those without health insurance buy it or pay a fine, a tax.

The charge is also one that runs counter to what Romney said last week: “I admit this, [President Obama] has one thing he did not do in his first four years — he’s said he’s going to do in the next four years, which is to raise taxes.”

Romney’s campaign later walked that back in a statement: “President Obama has raised taxes on millions of middle-class Americans during his first term in office,” spokeswoman Amanda Henneberg said in a statement. “Governor Romney was clearly communicating about an additional tax increase President Obama is proposing on American small businesses that will jeopardize over 700,000 jobs. Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan will stop the President’s tax increases, create 12 million new jobs, and turn our economy around.”

“Young illegal immigrants who receive temporary work permits to stay in the United States under an executive order issued by President Barack Obama would not be deported under a Mitt Romney administration, the GOP presidential hopeful told The Denver Post Monday.”

Romney said, “"The people who have received the special visa that the president has put in place, which is a two-year visa, should expect that the visa would continue to be valid. I'm not going to take something that they've purchased," Romney said. "Before those visas have expired we will have the full immigration reform plan that I've proposed."

He also promised to work on immigration reform in his first year: "I actually will propose a piece of legislation which will reform our immigration system to improve legal immigration so people don't have to hire lawyers to figure out how to get here legally," Romney said. "The president promised in his first year, his highest priority, that he would reform immigration and he didn't. And I will."

Romney also signaled he may be aggressive in the debate with Obama: "I think what's going to happen in this debate is each of us will get the opportunity to describe our pathway forward for America. And for the last several weeks and months, the president has dramatically distorted my own views. I look forward to the debate so people will understand what I actually believe."

The shift in tone on immigration comes the same day as a Latino Decisions poll showing Romney down by 52 points with Hispanics. From the Latino Decision poll post: “The now infamous video of Romney speaking at a fundraiser, appearing dismissive of poor and many working-class people, may have helped solidify Obama’s support and alienated a handful of voters who might otherwise have considered voting for Romney. His joke, captured on the same recording, that he would have “a better shot at winning” the election if he were of Mexican heritage surely rubbed many Mexican-Americans and other Hispanics the wrong way, as did his dire warning of disaster for the nation should Latino voters increasingly support Democratic candidates. Taken together, Romney’s “Let Them Eat Cake” moment (complete with sounds of silverware clinking on china at the $50,000-a-plate event) and his specific references to Latinos, may have reinforced the perception that he is out of touch with the vast majority of Latino voters.”

In addition to immigration, Romney was also pushing card check, something that hasn’t been heard since the GOP primary season. Here’s what he said yesterday, per NBC’s Garrett Haake: “If the president succeeds in something he’s pushing very hard, which is something known as card check, and for those of you not familiar with it, it’s this: it says we’re going to take away from the American worker the right to vote by secret ballot as to whether or not they want to have a union. And on that basis-- on that basis, a guy or a gal could be in their backyard barbequing with their kids and some people could come up and say, here sign this statement. We want you to vote where we can watch you vote. In a setting like that you’re going to see coercion and you’re going see small businesses overtaken by unions, and I’ll tell you this, entrepreneurs aren’t going want to start a business, if that’s the case. If card check goes in place, it will kill America’s entrepreneurial economy. What the president is doing is bowing to the demands of Big Labor, to his big contributors. It’s wrong. It would kill our economy. I’ll stop that in its track. We must have people have the right to vote by secret ballot.”

Discuss this post

The truth hasn't been any limitation on Romney's campaign so far in this election - why would it be so now? Mitt seems to run better when he's selling the lies ('no apologies', 'Obama raised taxes', 'Obama cut welfare to work',' you didn't build that' just to name a few).

  • 15 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 9:11 AM EDT

The lies are in your statement. Obamacare devastates the ability of middle income Americans to take medical deductions:

The AGI floor for medical deductions is raised from 7.5% to 10%.

There is a Medicare surtax on EARNED income of .9% for those with incomes above $200k/$250k.

There is a Medicare surtax of 3.8% on UNEARNED income at the same levels of $200k/$250k.

There is an excise tax of 2.3% on medical devices ... so granny gets to pay more for her wheelchair.

The amount you can put into a medical reimbursement plan has been reduced to a max of $2,500. Over-the-counter medicines are now restricted under that medical reimbursement plan.

Now, if you sell your home and the gain is over a certain amount, you get the 3.8% medicare tax.

Mince words, distort the truth and obfuscate the truth all you want ... Obamacare has already raised income taxes !

"You will have to pass the bill to see what's in it" ... Nancy Pelosi.

  • 6 votes
#1.1 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 9:50 AM EDT

Here's some taxes Obamacare will impose on all of us one way or another...

Top Five Worst Obamacare Taxes Coming in 2013

The Obamacare Medical Device Tax – a $20 billion tax increase:

The Obamacare “Special Needs Kids Tax” – a $13 billion tax increase:

The Obamacare Surtax on Investment Income – a $123 billion tax increase:

The Obamacare “Haircut” for Medical Itemized Deductions – a $15.2 billion tax increase:

The Obamacare Medicare Payroll Tax Hike -- an $86.8 billion tax increase:

It's time to turn the page on the disaster that is the Obama Administration...

The middle class and your children/grandchildren can't afford 4 more...

16 TRILLION and counting... tick tick tick

  • 5 votes
#1.2 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 10:19 AM EDT

Paific - you're right on target. Romney couldn't tell the truth if his life depended on it.

Obama/Biden 2012

  • 14 votes
#1.3 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 10:28 AM EDT

What about the tax on cigarettes within the first month of his taking office? As rich people, by and large, aren't the ones doing the smoking, it was a de facto tax on the poorer members of the populus.

  • 3 votes
#1.4 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 10:37 AM EDT

Obviously you have not read the bill or the regulations associated with them.

The surtax on medical devices applies to manufacturers and distributors, not retail sellers. There is actually a specific exemption for medical devices for medical devices that are sold at retail to consumers.

Evidently, you do not know what you are talking about.

Maxx Power, I enjoy seeing how you complain in several pithy statements about not wanting to have taxes increase, then complain about the debt. Which do you want, tax cuts or debt cuts ?

  • 8 votes
#1.5 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 10:41 AM EDT

The only way the right wing posters know what's in the bill is what Fox (Romney campaign headquarters) tells them what's in it. And surprise surprise they think Fox (Romney campaign headquarters) is fair and balanced. Bottom line is they believe every lie Fox (Romney campaign headquarters) tells them.

  • 8 votes
#1.6 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 10:55 AM EDT

The surtax on medical devices applies to manufacturers and distributors, not retail sellers.

And that increased cost to the manufacturers is just going to disappear and not be passed on to the facilities that purchase them and ultimately to the people who use/need them. Got it.

  • 5 votes
#1.7 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 11:38 AM EDT

Drip is truly naive, yes the cost will be passed on and it further curtails the ability of companies to make a profit since it is an EXCISE tax on gross RECEIPTS ... and not on bottom-line profit.

It has already led to one company totally scrapping its plans for expansion ... Indiana, if I remember correctly.

  • 3 votes
#1.8 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 12:32 PM EDT

Dirp said,

"Maxx Power, I enjoy seeing how you complain in several pithy statements about not wanting to have taxes increase, then complain about the debt. Which do you want, tax cuts or debt cuts ?"

I'm not in favor of ANYTHING in Obamacare because it will bankrupt the country PERIOD...think 900 billion and now before it has been fully deployed it's 1.76 trillion and counting...

I don't think tax cuts by themselves will fix everything but they are a piece to the whole formula to get this debt under control. If you do use tax cuts then you need to reduce spending by the amount of the tax cut and make sure the tax cuts are aimed at the place where they will do the most good.

The real problem is we are spending more than we taking in revenue wise therefore we are adding to the problem and kicking the can down the road for the next generation can't continue to be the answer... plain and simple if we continue down the road I just described NOBODY will have anything... no welfare, no SS, no medicare no NOTHING so implementing a disaster that is Obamacare is not the answer, it's just more of the same... spend spend spend... Dude it's a disaster!!

My position is clear STOP SPENDING money we don't have, PERIOD, because sooner then later we are going over the cliff!!

  • 3 votes
#1.9 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 12:48 PM EDT
Reply

When you look at sites like Politifact, not everything that conservatives say is a lie, but the vast majority of is just that. Especially when compared to democrats overall. I guess that for most Republican politicians, if you tell a lie, keep telling the lie until your base believes it.

  • 13 votes
Reply#2 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 9:49 AM EDT

Obviously, you have not read Obamacare to see some of the 23 little sneaky taxes built in ... but then you try to act knowledgeable. LOL !! Obamacare has also limited Health Care Savings plans for middle America.

Oh, and when I finally have to get my "total knee" replacement in a few years as per my orthopaedist, Obama has decided I get to pay more for it !!

Why does OBAMA hate people with medical problems and seek to raise their taxes through Obamacare ?

  • 4 votes
#2.1 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 9:55 AM EDT

Frisby Dog,

Jim1455434 just proved your statement "keep repetring the lie until your base believes it". By the way Pennsylvania voter ID was just struct down. And since Republicans had to fire the hooligan they hired to register voters me thinks this race is now over, regardless of the debates.

  • 11 votes
#2.2 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 10:17 AM EDT

AnaBanana - Truer words were never spoken. But, Republicans only have their lies to fall back on. The clearly have no candidate!

Obama/Biden 2012

  • 9 votes
#2.3 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 10:29 AM EDT

Jim: I guess you don't see the reality of what the ACA has really done. There is NOTHING in the ACA which regulates how much you pay for a total knee replacement. That is between you and your orthopedist. There are no regulations saying you have to pay more.

What the ACA does is to say that if you decide to self insure, then YOU have to pay for more of your medical bills with non-tax deductible dollars. Why should the rest of the American taxpayers have to pay more taxes to make up for your inability to properly provide for you own health requirements by purchasing insurance ?

  • 6 votes
#2.4 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 10:51 AM EDT

Don't worry jim, we know your knee is just fine. It's just another lie to go with the other lies you've been telling this morning. See jim when you are found to be lying, nobody believes anything you post.

  • 10 votes
#2.5 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 11:00 AM EDT

"Tax" is the dirtiest word in the English language, according to Republican rhetoric.

"Bankruptcy due to unpaid medical bills," on the other hand, is apparently music to their ears, not to mention "waiting too long to see a doctor because you can't pay," or "using the emergency room for routine care, which is much more costly." Republicans either don't register those notes or find them not the least discordant.

It's a strange kind of hearing disorder. They cringe, vomit and faint when they hear 'tax."

  • 6 votes
#2.6 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 11:21 AM EDT

Mo, the only thing worse than your lies .... is your college football team ! Have they won a conference football game yet ? Mo, you don't know jack$hit about my knee which just underwent arthroscopic surgery on 9/24/12.

Sorry , libbies .... the 2.3% excise tax is on medical DEVICES costing more than $500k, and it is an excise tax placed on gross receipts.

I realize that is way too much for Anabana and Seeking Sanity to understand, but it is part of the Obama war on people with health issues ! But then again, you libs cannot argue on facts, because they get in the way with your lies.

Even this article acknowledges a tax on tanning salons ... did they mention it is a 10% excise tax ?

  • 3 votes
#2.7 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 12:42 PM EDT

"Tax" is the dirtiest word in the English language, according to Republican rhetoric.

The new playbook came out. The new dirtiest words, in order, are "Liberal", "Socialist", "Communist", "Welfare", "Food stamps", and "Michael Moore".

  • 2 votes
#2.8 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 12:51 PM EDT

Chef Darrell

and "unions," especially "teachers' unions." You know, teachers caused the economy to tank.

  • 1 vote
#2.9 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 2:12 PM EDT
smitty1118Deleted

Just the unions in Chicago and California.

I still think we can sell Maine to Canada and pay down the debt. Just floating the idea.

    #2.11 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 3:22 PM EDT

    Jim.

    Just wait til you are 65 and then get your knee replacement. Medicare will cover it. Perhaps that is part of the $716 billion in Medicare savings from ACA enactment.

    • 1 vote
    #2.12 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 4:26 PM EDT
    Reply

    The truth is Obumbler is the biggest lie foisted on the American people in history. Seriously, when Obama

    is kicked out in November, only then will we truly get to know who and what Obumbler really is. It is a shame the mainstream media did not let the American people get to understand the man and his beliefs.

    They are NOT the US Constitution, liberty and freedom. Limted government is a term foreign to this tried and true marxist. If it were not for Soros and DNC elites; Barry would have remained marginalized.

    As is, Obumbler is a failed experiment...and overreach ny the socialists in this country. I am not the only one who believes this. Obama is going to lose in an electoral vote landslide.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#3 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 9:58 AM EDT

    JD - when you start your post with the ignorant "Obumbler" it isn't worth reading further. You prove yourself to be one of the low information and illiterate Republicans.

    Obama/Biden 2012

    • 6 votes
    #3.1 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 10:30 AM EDT

    It also shows when JD opens his mouth only hate flows out.

    • 5 votes
    #3.2 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 11:06 AM EDT

    JD must surely be from Mars because he obviously has no idea what is really happening on Earth.

    • 5 votes
    #3.3 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 11:31 AM EDT

    It shows that comments #3.1,#3.2 and #3.3 offer nothing of substance(as usual), but immediately resort to personal attacks on the poster. Ah, the "Liberal way" is unfolded .... if you cannot neutralize their argument, ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK the messenger ...... you guys have not read about all the little "SURPRISE TAXES" in Obamacare, now have you ?????????????

    • 1 vote
    #3.4 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 12:47 PM EDT

    LOL and this is coming from someone that puts people down daily. Priceless................

    "JD - when you start your post with the ignorant "Obumbler" it isn't worth reading further. You prove yourself to be one of the low information and illiterate Republicans"

    • 1 vote
    #3.5 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 1:01 PM EDT

    @seekingsanity

    when you make generalizations about republicans being illiterate you show yourself to be a moron. I read post after post about the rich out of touch republicans then comments about republicans being idiots and uneducated, which is it? if every person in the richest 1% of the country is a republican (which is also false) how can we all be uneducated?? both parties have idiots, this is pretty clear. Both parties also have well educated members, it's just the degrees held by republicans are in crazy things like economics, where our liberal counterparts studied a lot of anthropology and theater arts.

    bottom line the ACA is forcing people to carry insurance, this is the EXACT same as a law telling a woman she can't have an abortion, you can insert any issue you want it is just an example of government telling you how to live you life, it is all so far out of line with the ideas we were founded on it disturbs me. I have insurance, i am lucky enough to have a good job that provides me a great group rate and i CHOSE to pay for my share of it. If i felt i needed that money for something else i wouldnt have insurance. Why can't people understand this as the base issue people have with the ACA? To me its not even about the tax increases, i dont like them, but i take issue with any group of people telling me what to do with what is MINE....thats another issue some hardcore liberals don't understand, i bust my ass to earn my paycheck, it is mine, you have no right to any of it. You have no right to tell me how to spend it, if i want to spend my entire paycheck on Pepsi, cigarettes, pizza and gambling then i will, i will die young fat and broke but damn i will have fun in the mean time.

      #3.6 - Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:04 PM EDT
      Reply

      you boys sure do complain. obama care is a needed step toward the goal of national health care and yes it cost money but that water will be carried by the very top incomes, as it should be.

      so close your piehole, for your complaint is no different than the fat cats who complained about the inception of social security, and you dont want to mess with that program.

      this health program will provide a safer enviroment and healthier workers and because of its coverage it will provide a bucket load of new jobs in the health industry and those companies which support the industry.

      • 4 votes
      Reply#4 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 10:32 AM EDT

      why should it be carried by the highest income levels? why is it their responsibility to pay for social medicine? first of all a good number of these very wealthy made their money in the medical industry, now you are asking them to pay more in taxes and make less in income, they are getting hit twice, how is that fair?? you want fair, everyone pays a 28% sales tax on everything they buy, period, no income tax no loopholes tax everyone equally based on what they spend, this will eliminate penalties for people who save and invest capital into the economy and will cover the deficit (according to my very rough math i just made up on the fly). You take the savings gained by simplifying the tax code and the increased revenue from taxing every man woman and child the same and you take care of the bottom 15% of Americans, there ya go socialist and capitalists are happy....so why don't we have a flat sales tax system? because then what would big government do with all their free time?

        #4.1 - Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:08 PM EDT
        Reply

        Well, if we're going to highlight lying, how about the repeated lie (and repeated in this left wing media article) that 40% of the stimulus was a tax cut.

        NOT SO!

        The CBO stated that it was actually around 23%. WHY? Because you can't give an income tax cut to people who pay no Federal income tax. They said Obama was counting the people who had earned income tax credits and paid no Federal income taxes who actually got a check in the mail!

        Which, they said, amounted to a welfare payment. 40% tax cut in the stimulus? NOT!

        • 2 votes
        Reply#5 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 10:58 AM EDT

        The CBO stated that it was actually around 23%. WHY? Because you can't give an income tax cut to people who pay no Federal income tax. They said Obama was counting the people who had earned income tax credits and paid no Federal income taxes who actually got a check in the mail!

        enner, you're making things up again. The CBO said no such thing. You made that whole paragraph up. Or is that what you heard from lying Limbaugh?

        • 2 votes
        #5.1 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 11:13 AM EDT

        Speaking of lies, Mo, since you are aware that Barack Hussein Obama swore on his inauguration to UPHOLD the laws of our country .... that Obama is now telling companies NOT TO WARN their employees (AS REQUIRED BY LAW) of the possibility that they could LOSE THEIR JOBS due to Defense Department cutbacks ... an effect of sequestration that is looming. Obama has told companies that the Department of Labor will pick up the tab for the legal fees incurred by those companies that fail to comply with the law.

        Martin Marietta in Virginia is ignoring the law requiring their company give notice to its employees, as required by law, that there could be layoffs and cutbacks due to the impending sequestration !!!! Obama clearly does not want to scare away those voters .... since Virginia is a swing state !

        So now Obama is telling companies NOT TO OBEY THE LAW ???????????????

        • 3 votes
        #5.2 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 12:55 PM EDT

        Jim,

        You know how the Labor Department will pay for those? Our tax money!!! Amazing!!!!

        "Obama has told companies that the Department of Labor will pick up the tab for the legal fees incurred by those companies that fail to comply with the law."

        • 2 votes
        #5.3 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 1:10 PM EDT

        So, our country is $16 trillion in debt and NOW we get to pay for fines incurred to secure potential voters for Obama ?

        What will the "regressives" think of next to sway the election ???

        • 4 votes
        #5.4 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 2:16 PM EDT
        Reply

        Answer these question Romney supporters:

        1) Tell me why do you far right Taliban Christians think you are entitled to get into my bedroom?

        2) Tell why to you far right Taliban Christians think every Muslin is out to get you?

        3) Tell me why you far right Taliban Christians think you are entitled to say what is a marriage?

        4) Tell me why does the far right Taliban Christians think you are entitled to say whether my wife or daughters get a vaginal probe?

        5) Tell me why the far right Taliban Christians hasn’t explain exactly what is a legitimate rape?

        6) Tell me why the far right Taliban Christians seem entitled to ship our jobs overseas and then it says it sucks to be you fend for yourself?

        7) Tell me why the far right Taliban Christians thinks they are entitled to put the elderly, disabled, and Military Vets out on the street to fend for themselves?

        8) Tell me why Mitt Romney and family can avoid serving in our military yet be more than willing to send other off to die for this country?

        9) Tell me why Mitt Romney can invest his money in a Chinese company that is doing business with Iran?

        • 2 votes
        Reply#6 - Tue Oct 2, 2012 6:00 PM EDT

        ..... EXCELLENT RET .... lets see if we get some of those questions answered ....

        OBAMA 2012

          #6.1 - Wed Oct 3, 2012 10:15 AM EDT

          1) tell me why you are entitled to take my money and redistribute it?

          2) tell me why i am Taliban for believing in God?

          3) tell me why everyone has to share you opinion on the definition of marriage? I personally could not care less if two men got married, doesnt effect my life, do i believe it is wrong? on a personal level yes, does that give me any right to tell someone how to live? HELL NO

          4) tell me why you think all republicans think this way? modern medicine has saved millions of womens lives, i am all for it. just dont make me pay for your daughter's check ups

          5) tell me why you take the moronic words of a dumbass from missouri and paint us all with this picture?

          6) tell me why you would ever want a nationalist system that guranteed overpriced goods? read your history books, world war 2 chapters should provide plenty of insight on out nationalism goes.

          7) tell me why republicans raise more donations for vets than democrats? You call us rednecks for flying the flag and hanging yellow ribbons then claim we don't care about our vets.

          8) tell me why anyone can avoid serving in the military? perhaps you are unaware but this is the first election in which we don't have a single Pres or VP candidate with military experience. Biden's son did his 4 years, i am thankful for that, but this isn't Israel and we aren't fighting in Vietnam there is no requirement to serve in the military. this is a non point.

          9) tell me why obama can borrow billions of china, who does business with all of our enemies, to pay for his stimulus that didnt work?

          10) Tell me why liberals think it is ok to ever compare any religion to the Taliban? do you have any idea how insulting it is? There are plenty of very religious politicians in the democratic party, are they also Taliban because they believe in a higher power and live their lives according to a set of simple laws that have been passed down for generations? do you think you are hip for not believing in God? do you really think you will ever sway me or any Christian in our beliefs because you are so small and petty that you use ridiculous word play? have you really lost so much respect for the constitution that you believe our government should outlaw religion?

          11) do you really think that four more years of this crap is going to help?

          12) do you think that i should just abandon all hope for retiring? Keep working until i die because we have such a huge hole we will never have the tax revenue to pay off the debt? do you really think my entire existence should be caring for people who don't care for themselves?

          13) do you think i should get the iPhone 5?

            #6.2 - Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:24 PM EDT
            Reply

            On balance, as one fact checker wrote: "just about every one of the more than 100 million taxpayers, no matter how little they made, has ended up with at least $1,000 in tax cuts under Obama in the past three years..... OK SENIORS, WHAT TAX BREAK DID YOU GET.? MEDICARE GO DOWN, AH NO. PAYROLL TAX WENT DOWN, BUT WE'RE RETIRED. CHILD CARE CREDIT, LET'S HOPE NOT AT OUR AGE. MORTGAGE TAX RELIEF, BEEN IN MY HOUSE SINCE NIXON SAID GOODBYE, PAID FOR A LONG TIME AGO. WHAT WAS I THINKING PAYING MY BILLS ON TIME..... BUSH TAX CUT....WELL THAT'S NOT A REAL CUT, THAT'S JUST AN EXTENSION OF WHAT BUSH GAVE ME, NO EXTRA MONEY THERE......NO SENIORS WE GOT THE GOOSE EGG, ZERO, NADA. DON'T FORGET, I DON'T.

              Reply#7 - Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:59 PM EDT
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