E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSFocusing on Battleground Ohio… The campaigns release two new TV ads summing up their messages in the Buckeye State… On Romney’s tax returns… On Obama’s do-no-harm week… Dueling “60 Minutes” interviews served as a debate preview of sorts… And both campaigns treated them like debates, with their rapid-response teams in high alert… And don’t’ forget: Todd Akin’s deadline to withdraw from Missouri’s Senate race is tomorrow.
Scott Olson / Getty Images
President Barack Obama speaks to supporters during a campaign rally on September 22, 2012 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
*** Battleground Ohio: On Sunday, the University of Cincinnati poll became the latest survey to show Mitt Romney trailing in the Buckeye State -- and perhaps more importantly, President Obama hitting 50% or more there. According to the poll, Obama leads Romney by five points among likely voters in the state, 51%-46%, which is close to what our recent NBC/WSJ/Marist poll of Ohio showed, 50%-43%. And here’s the reality for the GOP in this almost must-win state for them: Right now, you could argue that Obama is in a stronger position in North Carolina (his most challenging battleground state) than Romney is in Ohio (a state that EVERY victorious Republican presidential nominee has won). And this is why the GOP ticket is blitzing through the Buckeye State this week -- as if the 2012 campaign depended on it, because, well, it does. Running mate Paul Ryan today starts off an Ohio bus tour by stumping in Lima at 3:10 pm ET. Romney joins him in Vandalia on Tuesday, and then the presidential nominee stumps in Westerville and Toledo on Wednesday. But that’s not all the campaigning in Ohio this week. On the Democratic side, Obama hits the state on Wednesday, and the DNC has its own bus tour bracketing the GOP ticket.
*** The campaigns’ latest TV ads: Also tied to the Romney campaign’s bus tour through Ohio is an exchange of TV ads by the campaigns that’s really almost exclusively about Ohio and its white working-class swing voting population. The Obama campaign is airing a new TV ad in the state that seizes on Romney’s “47%” remarks. “Mitt Romney attacked 47% of Americans who pay no income tax, including veterans, elderly, the disabled,” the ad begins. “Doesn’t the President have to worry about everyone? Mitt Romney paid just 14.1% in taxes last year. He keeps millions in Bermuda and the Cayman Islands. He won’t release his tax returns before 2010.” And it concludes, “Maybe instead of attacking others on taxes, Romney should come clean on his.” Meanwhile, the Romney campaign has its own new TV ad that is clearly about these voters, and wants to shift the resentment from himself to China. “Fewer Americans are working today than when President Obama took office. It doesn’t have to be this way -- if Obama would stand up to China.” The advertisement ends, “Obama had years to stand up to China. We can’t afford four more.” These two new TV ads pretty much sum up the campaigns’ respective strategies when it comes to Ohio: Obama is hitting Romney’s personal wealth, and Romney is trying to bash China.
*** On Romney’s tax returns: Speaking of Romney’s tax returns, he released his 2011 return on Friday, as well as a short summary of the tax rates he paid going back to 1990. The Romney camp’s timing was smart -- on its worst week of the campaign, dump all the bad news you can to get everything out of the way. But the campaign also didn’t answer all the questions about Romney’s past tax returns; the only way to do that would be to release the actual returns, not a short summary. But here’s the bottom line about the tax-return issue: The Obama campaign succeeded in making it a talking point and attack (just see its new TV ad), and the Romney camp seems to have succeeded in its goal to not release the actual returns prior to 2010.
*** On Obama’s do-no-harm week: When it comes to the UN meetings this week in New York, Obama is playing prevent defense. While he addresses the UN on Tuesday, he isn’t holding a single meeting with any world leader (not Israel’s Netanyahu, not Egypt’s Morsi). But can he fully get away with this strategy? The fact is there are a lot of questions about America’s role in the Middle East, how the administration has responded to the uprisings and of course, the unanswered questions surrounding the attack on Ambassador Stevens in Libya. He’s avoided questions on this topic beyond generalities. Interestingly, what the president said on “60 Minutes” (an interview taped before the administration had publicly acknowledged al Qaeda’s role in Libya), about “bumps in the road” came across as a tad tone deaf. While he may be right in the grand scheme of things, given the current state of the investigation in Libya, we’re guessing he wished he hadn’t worded things that way.
*** Previewing the debates… : It’s nine days until the first presidential debate in Colorado, but last night’s dueling (and separate) Obama-Romney interviews on “60 Minutes” served as a preview of sorts for the upcoming debates. Here was Romney on the role of government: "Make government smaller. Don't build these massive deficits that pass debt onto our kids, rebuild the foundation of America's strength with great homes, great schools, with entrepreneurship and innovation. Here was Obama: “I think there's no bigger purpose right now than making sure that if people work hard in this country, they can get ahead. That's the central American idea. That's how we sent a man to the moon. Because there was an economy that worked for everybody and that allowed us to do that. Here was Romney on taxes: “[My plan] would be the current rates less 20%. So the top rate, for instance, would go from 35 to 28. Middle rates would come down by 20% as well. All the rates come down. Here was Obama: “[T]he problem that Gov. Romney has is that he seems to only have one note: tax cuts for the wealthy and rolling back regulations as a recipe for success. Well, we tried that vigorously between 2001 and 2008. And it didn't work out so well.”
*** … on role of government, taxes, the deficit, and national security: Also in during his “60 Minutes” interview, Romney said this about tackling the budget deficit: “I'm going to look at every federal program and I'll ask this question, ‘Is this … program so critical it's worth borrowing money from China to pay for it?" And if it doesn't pass that test, I'm going to eliminate the program because we just can't afford to keep spending more money than we take in.” Obama said, “[W]e've already cut a trillion dollars of spending. And I've told them I'm prepared to do additional spending cuts and do some entitlement reform. But what I've said is, ‘You can't ask me to make student loans higher for kids who need it or ask seniors to pay more for their Medicare or throw people off of health care and not ask somebody like me or Mr. Romney to do anything, not ask us to do a single dime's worth of sacrifice.’” And here was Romney on national security: “I thought that the surge troops [to Afghanistan] should have been brought back in November of this year, not September. I don't think you try and bring back troops during the fighting season. I think that was a mistake. I think it was also a mistake to announce the precise date of our withdrawal.” And Obama: I said I'd end the war in Iraq. I did. I said that we'd go after al Qaeda. They've been decimated in the Fatah. That we'd go after bin Laden. He's gone. So I've executed on my foreign policy. And it's one that the American people largely agree with. So if Gov. Romney is suggesting that we should start another war, he should say so.
*** And treating the interviews like they were the debates: Strikingly, both the Romney and Obama campaigns treated last night’s “60 Minutes” interview like they were debates. The Romney camp pounced on Obama referring to Israel as “one of our closest allies in the region” instead of THE closest ally. It also seized on the president calling the current unrest in the Muslim world “bumps in the road” after the Arab Spring. For their part, Democrats and the Obama campaign jumped all over Romney saying it was fair that he pays a lower tax rate than other Americans do. By the way, both sides are still doing mock debates. NBC’s Garrett Haake reported that Romney did another round with Ohio Sen. Rob Portman on Sunday, while First Read can report that Obama practiced at the DNC on Friday with Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry (with the first lady in attendance).
*** On the trail: Romney holds a rally in Pueblo, CO at 2:00 pm ET… And Ryan stumps in Lima, OH at 3:10 pm ET.
*** Polling update: Here’s a wrap of all the recent polling we’ve seen: As mentioned above, the University of Cincinnati poll shows Obama up by five points among likely voters in Ohio, 51%-46%... In Florida, a Tampa Bay Times/Miami Herald/Bay News 9/Mason-Dixon survey has Obama at 48% and Romney at 47%... And there’s a national Politico/GWU Battleground poll of likely voters that has Obama at 50% and Romney at 47%.
*** Akin it harder for the GOP: Don’t forget: The drop-dead deadline for Todd Akin to withdraw from Missouri’s Senate race is tomorrow, and it doesn’t seem like he’s going anywhere. Today, at 12:30 pm ET, he holds a press conference with Newt Gingrich, who has been defending him.
Countdown to 1st presidential debate: 9 days
Countdown to VP debate: 17 days
Countdown to 2nd presidential debate: 22 days
Countdown to 3rd presidential debate: 28 days
Countdown to Election Day: 43 days
Click here to sign up for First Read emails.
Text FIRST to 622639, to sign up for First Read alerts to your mobile phone.
Check us out on Facebook and also on Twitter. Follow us @chucktodd, @mmurraypolitics, @DomenicoNBC, @brookebrower
Leave a Comment:
In 2010: 258 bills were passed.
In 2012: 61 bills were passed. (2% of 3,914 bills proposed.)
This is in accordance with GOP Leader McConnell's call in 2009 - - for lockstep GOP obstruction to economic growth & job creation. GOP leaders pledged to shift the fallout of their Just-say-NO strategy, on to President Obama.
As a consequence GOP destructive strategies:
a) Congress is on track to be the LEAST productive year since the post WWII era, according to the U.S. House clerk's office. b) Congress has gone on vacation for 2 months - without addressing critical, pressing concerns.
Last week, House GOP voted NO to the veterans' jobs corp = NO to 20,000 jobs for returning vets. Also:
1) Speaker Boehner punted on the Farm bill, that helps farmers and ranchers respond to drought and natural disasters, giving more certainty to rural communities. 2) GOP is holding up financing thousands of home-owners at historically low rates, that would save us $3,000 a year. 3) GOP is holding up guaranteeing 2013 tax rates for 98% of the nation, including 95% of small businesses.
GOP congressionals are on a permanent, Go-Slow/BlockTillYouCroak schedule.
RomneyRyan-Corporate-Adelson-GOP is only interested in growing the fortunes of the top 0.01%. They're obsessed with all things taxes (Romney). And all things deregulation (Romney).
Making rich people richer is corporate GOP's entire economic agenda - let's vote them all out in November.
Forward with Obama/Biden >>>>>>>
Karl Rove's Miscalculation:
In his prime Karl Rove, aka "Turdblossom", struck fear in the hearts of many Democrats. His playbook included such tactics as: aggressively attack your opponent's strengths, accuse your opponent of the same thing you are doing, go negative and then cry "foul", create a big lie and repeat it over and over again until people eventually believe it, give simple solutions to very complex problems, ignore the evidence (facts), create straw issues, and take your opponent's words out of context.
After leaving the Bush 43 White House, Rove created American Crossroads and has received millions of dollars in donations to defeat President Obama and down-ticket Democrats. His strategy is to focus on the swing states by using TV ads that employ the above tactics to elect Mitt Romney as POTUS. Karl Rove (American Crossroads), the Koch brothers (Americans for Prosperity and Freedomworks) have been flooding swing states with anti-Obama ads.
It is here that Rove's American Crossroads miscalculates. First of all President Obama is a known commodity, is smart, has an engaging smile, cares deeply about the middle-class, and is likable. Rove's tactics are having little to no impact because voters already know Barack Obama and either like or dislike him. In spite of these ads poll numbers are not moving toward Romney.
The second component to American Crossroad's miscalculation is Mitt Romney himself. The campaign has shown Willard to be dishonest, secretive regarding his taxes, uncaring about the middle-class, pandering to the right-wing, and generally speaking, unlikeable. There is simply no way Karl Rove can create a warm, friendly image of Mitt Romney that voters will buy. Conservative Republicans will vote for Romney mainly because they don't like President Obama.
So Karl Rove will continue to spend millions of donor's dollars on an effort that has little to no prospect of being successful. He may spend some of that money on down-ticket senatorial races or he could save it to challenge Hillary Clinton in 2016. But he will likely spend all of it and ask for more PAC money for the 2014 and 2016 elections. After all, corporations are people with endless amounts of money.
Romney Wins Decisively
Good grief, how could that possibly be? Just about every freaking poll out there shows the president pulling ahead, especially in the battleground states. So how could anyone be foolish enough to predict a Romney win? The answer is because just about every freaking poll out there is misleading. Here's why.
All polls have some sort of model they use to weigh the responses they receive. For example, a telephone poll is likely to produce an overly representative sample of the elderly population since the elderly are more likley to be home to answer the phone rather than being at work or out and about. This is a common issue in the polling biz and one that is easily fixed by adjusting the responses from the elderly downward slightly so their contribution to the sample is more accurate.
This same idea is applied to determine the appropriate weight to give responses received from groups like blacks or Hispanics or young voters. Most polls are determining these weights based on the 2008 election results. Thus in 2008, blacks accounted for 14% of the vote so the model used by most pollsters in 2012 is giving responses from blacks that same weight.
The problem with that approach is that the black vote in 2008 was historically high. In fact, historically blacks have accounted for only about 11% of the vote so any analysis that presumes a 14% contribution is basically assuming that black turnout in 2012 will also be historically high. Of course, the weakness in that assumption is that polling is also showing that enthusiasm among blacks has waned considerably since 2008 so there is really no good reason to think these folks will turn out in 2012 at that level.
This same line of thinking can be applied to groups like Hispanics and young voters as well. In 2008 Hispanics increased their share of the vote by 1.5% and the college age population almost doubled their vote share as compared to the historical norm. So any model that projects these same results into 2012 is again assuming a continuation of the historic levels of enthusiasm Obama generated in 2008. And this is exactly what most pollsters are doing, it's like the proverbial general who is fighting the last war. But when the results of these polls are adjusted to reflect the more historically normal turnout results from 2004, they show the race either tied or Romney ahead. Hmmm, fancy that.
Then there's the pesky little issue of the undecideds. Even though there may be fewer undecideds this year than in previous elections, most polls (even with their pro-Obama bias) are still showing the president getting less than 50% of the vote and less than 50% on job approval as well. So, a MAJORITY of voters are either for Romney or undecided. And the the historical fact of the matter is the undecided vote just about always goes against the incumbent. Remember, as late as October 27, 1980 Gallup showed Carter leading Reagan 45% to 39%. But the undecideds broke sharply for Reagan late in the race and he ended up winning by 9 points.
Here's the bottom line: the MSM is emotionally invested in an Obama victory and they report convenient poll results without asking inconvenient questions about the methodologies used to produce those results. So don't be fooled by a fawning MSM or shameless shills like Dr. Ron who are trying to make you believe this election is all but over. Because the reality is the Obama folks are hugely dependent on a continuation of an unusually high turnout from their base.
If -- and only if -- Obama generates the same levels of enthusiasm that he did in 2008, then he has a decent chance of winning. But if turnout reverts to historical norms, he probably loses. And since Obama's core demographic has been ravaged by persistently high unemployment and disappointment with his job performance, there is no reason to believe these folks will bring anywhere near the same level of enthusiasm they did in 2008. Add into the mix the fact that undecideds tend to break against the incumbent, and Obama is looking at a steep uphill climb.
Like I said, Romney wins decisively. And when he says his campaign doesn't need a "turnaround" he's exactly right.
Voter Harassment, Circa 2012
Published: September 21, 2012
This is how voter intimidation worked in 1966: White teenagers in Americus, Ga., harassed black citizens in line to vote, and the police refused to intervene. Black plantation workers in Mississippi had to vote in plantation stores, overseen by their bosses. Black voters in Choctaw County, Ala., had to hand their ballots directly to white election officials for inspection.
This is how it works today: In an ostensible hunt for voter fraud, a Tea Party group, True the Vote, descends on a largely minority precinct and combs the registration records for the slightest misspelling or address error. It uses this information to challenge voters at the polls, and though almost every challenge is baseless, the arguments and delays frustrate those in line and reduce turnout.
The thing that’s different from the days of overt discrimination is the phony pretext of combating voter fraud. Voter identity fraud is all but nonexistent, but the assertion that it might exist is used as an excuse to reduce the political rights of minorities, the poor, students, older Americans and other groups that tend to vote Democratic.
In The Times on Monday, Stephanie Saul described how the plan works. True the Vote grew out of a Tea Party group in Texas, the King Street Patriots, with the assistance of Americans for Prosperity, a group founded by the Koch brothers that works to elect conservative Republicans. It has developed its own software to check voter registration lists against driver’s license and property records. Those kinds of database matches are notoriously unreliable because names and addresses are often slightly different in various databases, but the group uses this technique to challenge more voters.
In 2009 and 2010, for example, the group focused on the Houston Congressional district represented by Sheila Jackson Lee, a black Democrat. After poring over the records for five months, True the Vote came up with a list of 500 names it considered suspicious and challenged them with election authorities. Officials put these voters on “suspense,” requiring additional proof of address, but in most cases voters had simply changed addresses. That didn’t stop the group from sending dozens of white “poll watchers” to precincts in the district during the 2010 elections, deliberately creating friction with black voters.
On the day of the recall election of Gov. Scott Walker of Wisconsin, the group used inaccurate lists to slow down student voting at Lawrence University in Appleton with intrusive identity checks. Three election “observers,” including one from True the Vote, were so disruptive that a clerk gave them two warnings, but the ploy was effective: many students gave up waiting in line and didn’t vote.
True the Vote, now active in 30 states, hopes to train hundreds of thousands of poll watchers to make the experience of voting like “driving and seeing the police following you,” as one of the group’s leaders put it. (Not surprisingly, the group is also active in the voter ID movement, with similar goals.) These activities “present a real danger to the fair administration of elections and to the fundamental freedom to vote,” as a recent report by Common Cause and Demos put it.
The Voting Rights Act of 1965 prohibits intimidation or interference in the act of voting, but the penalties are fairly light. Many states have tougher laws, but they won’t work unless law enforcement officials use them to crack down on the illegal activities — handed down from Jim Crow days — of True the Vote and similar groups.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/opinion/voter-harassment-circa-2012.html?_r=0
(RJ)
WAKE UP PEOPLE
As we approach election time, there are a number of states where the issue of Voter Suppression is still unresolved. In most instances, these matters are still before the Courts hopefully all will be resolved before Election Day. Some states are voting already, some states start early voting soon, absentee ballots are being mailed, so there is plenty of opportunity for confusion to enter the picture not to mention intimidation. It is shameful we have to even consider the possibility that many of our citizens would be prevented in any way from voting but it is a sad fact. It is even a sadder fact, that there hasn’t been more attention, more outrage that this is taking place and it deeply saddens me that many will do nothing about it. How can some citizens be so indifferent or even willfully blind to what is happening? All of these attempts at suppression are happening only in states with Republican Legislatures and Governors.
These attempts at Voter Suppression will affect many who would most likely vote Democrat, the students, the inner city working poor, the elderly and the infirm. They count too and they should. Election Day, is the one day when everyone is equal, everyone gets one vote, doesn’t matter where you live, what you do or have, everyone is equal for that one day. Ask yourselves why should anyone eligible be excluded or intimidated.
Make yourself available if you can to help someone to vote. Take them to register or help them get an ID and on Election Day help get some to the polls. It really is important
In the Sixty Minutes interview Romney stated his rate of tax is fair.
Baloney! I call FOUL.
He enjoys a special loophole bought and paid for by people like him.
This guy wants to cut loopholes for many EXCEPT the carried interest loophole he enjoys.
http://news.yahoo.com/analysis-other-investors-romney-enjoys-lower-income-tax-225030735--sector.html
The current 112th Congress has passed fewer laws than any previous Congress since 1947.
Number of laws passed in each year, by Congress:
2012: 61;2011: 90;2010: 258;2009: 125;2008: 280;2007: 180;2006: 313;2005: 169;2004: 300;2003: 198;2002: 241;2001: 136;2000: 410;1999: 170;1998: 241;1997: 153;1996: 245;1995: 88;1994: 255;1993: 210;1992: 347;1991: 243;1990: 410;1989: 240;1988: 473;1987: 240;1986: 424;1985: 240;1984: 408;1983: 215;1982: 328;1981: 145;1980: 426;1979: 187;1978: 411;1977: 223;1976: 383;1975: 205;1974: 404;1973: 245;1972: 383;1971: 224;1970: 505;1969: 190;1968: 391;1967: 391;1966: 461;1965: 349;1964: 408;1963: 258;1962: 484;1961: 401;1960: 417;1959: 383;1958: 620;1957: 316;1956: 638;1955: 390;1954: 492;1953: 288;1952: 339;1951: 255;1950: 481;1949: 440;1948: 511;1947: 395
Source: House Clerk's Office
......................................
Thanks to Leaders McConnell, Boehner, Cantor & GOP leaders, the current 112th Congress is the LEAST productive legislative body since WWII.
So far in 2012, only 61 bills have become law.
Even the 80th Congress of 1948 ~ that President Truman called the "do-nothing Congress" ~ passed 511 laws.
Romney-Ryan-GOP would like to pin the above on President Obama. However, the GOP strategy of blocking American progress began on Inauguration Day, January 20, 2012 - when 15 GOP leaders met at a restaurant, and pledged to block all attempts to recover from a second Great Recession. These GOP leaders conspired to block our economic recovery at a time when America lost 9 million jobs
Their plan was to blame the President for the consequences of their own destructive actions. Note that Paul Ryan was at that meeting in 2009.GOP/Koch kept their word, and blocked all job creation bills, including the Veterans Jobs Corps Bill - which GOP House blocked just last week.
So now Bill Kristol, a neoconservative, joins George Will and David Brooks, genuine conservatives, in recognizing that the Republican Party is cannibalizing itself. The Party that once championed the abolition of slavery, that championed fiscal conservatism, that championed equal opportunity is in the hands of intellectual midgets. Brooks, Kristol, and Will are sending a blindingly clear message that the Republican Party represents a very narrow interest, and will soon become irrelevant.
It is almost laughable that the G.O.P. has been purchased lock, stock, and barrel by very, very wealthy interests who pretend to be representatives of the oppressed working class. They're job creators, don't you know? They are the ones who create the wealth.
Sure Mitt Romney has destroyed businesses, wiped out pensions, and off-shored jobs, but he gave us Staples and the Sports Authority. He's a wealth and job creator. Horse puckey. Neither Staples nor the Sport Authority creates wealth. What those outfits do is hire very low-wage employees who unload supplies and re-sell them. They add a fee for picking stuff up and putting it down. Romney and his cronies take a cut of the added costs. That's capital extraction.
How about the noble Sheldon Adelson? Wealth creator? No! He is a wealth extractor. How in the name of a room-temperature I.Q. does anyone believe that taking money from an unlucky/stupid gambler creates wealth?
How do the Koch's create wealth when they work to gut regulations protecting the air, water, and soil? They don't. They are stealing capital that future generations must pony up to restore the damage done by gutting regulations. Maybe citizens will see that when their OWN children can't breathe, drink a glass of water/fire, or eat foods that would kill flies.
Comes now William Kristol admitting that President Obama has turned around Bush's financial meltdown. He says Romney's tax bite is kinda weird, that his remarks about the 47% were "arrogant and stupid", and that he is a total zero on foreign affairs.
If the turnaround was a limited success, imagine how much better off we would be had it not been for a Boehner-led House. Boehner, his fearful Republicans, and the terrifyingly ignorant Tea Party faction have been too busy to deal with jobs, jobs, jobs. Sure jobs are the number one issue Boehner says, but they'll have to wait until all U.S. Post Offices have names, and women have been stripped of personhood and take their proper role as possessions of men.
If the turnaround was a limited success, imagine how much better of we would be had it not been for Mitch McConnell - the Senate Minority Leader who flatly stated his number one issue was to defeat President Obama, and if the nation was destroyed in the process - well, tough bones. Yeah, well Senator Reid could have changed that, we'll hear. BS. Take a few minutes to find out why that argument is absolute crap. Look at this link: http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2012/02/parliamentary-procedure
It's really that bad. Republicans have engaged in far more than simple obstruction. They have willingly taken steps to insure President Obama's destruction......and OURS. That has to stop.
LET IT BE (Medicare & Social Security & Obama Care)
More and More In Obama’s Corner
By Michael Winerip, New York Times
Mitt Romney has just come off a couple of rough news weeks in his quest for the presidency, but if Clyde Tennyson, 62, of Hampton, Va., is as typical of the baby boom generation as polling data seem to suggest, there is more bad news to come.
Mr. Tennyson, a designer at Hampton’s shipyard, voted for Senator John McCain in the 2008 presidential election. In that election, the boomers split their vote down the middle, giving Mr. McCain and Barack Obama 49 percent each.
This time, Mr. Tennyson says he’s voting for President Obama, a shift that a sizable number of his fellow boomers are making, according to recent polling data.
He’s angry about the Republicans’ talk of changing Medicare from government sponsored to a private voucher program. Though Mr. Romney swears it’s not so, Mr. Tennyson also fears that the Republicans will alter Social Security. “I’m going to need Medicare and so are my kids,” said Mr. Tennyson, who has three children ages 29 to 39. “I’ve been paying money into Social Security the last 40 years, and it’s all I’m going to have to retire on — I don’t want to hear a word about privatization. Not Medicare, not Social Security.”
Mr. Tennyson is one of the 78 million Americans born between 1946 and 1964, known as the baby boom generation. In the most recent New York Times/CBS News poll, likely voters in roughly that age group favored Mr. Obama by 9 percentage points. In a Pew Research Center poll of likely voters, Mr. Obama is ahead, 50 to 44 percent, within that age group.
“This is a significant change, and that generation’s vote counts for a lot,” said Scott Keeter, director of survey research for Pew. The boomers, who range in age from 48 to 66, account for 37 percent of all voters. Generation X — roughly 31 to 46 — makes up 26 percent. The youngest voters, ages 18 to 30, and the oldest, over 65, make up 17 percent each.
The apparent shift could be offset by a softer level of support for Mr. Obama among the youngest voters, in the 18-to-29 age group, of whom 66 percent went for him in 2008, and potentially lower turnout.
What is moving the baby boom voters? It may be Medicare.
On Friday, at the AARP convention in New Orleans, the Republican vice presidential candidate Paul D. Ryan was widely booed when he mentioned repealing “Obamacare” and privatizing Medicare.
The Great Recession had a major impact just as the older boomers were approaching retirement. The typical household income for those 55 to 64 has dropped nearly 10 percent since the recession, to $55,748 from $61,716, the biggest decrease of any age group.
Lark McDonald, 51, who owns a small business in the Denver area, says he voted for Mr. McCain last time, and usually votes a straight Republican ticket, but is leaning toward Mr. Obama. He worries that the Republicans are moving too far right, he said, but he is also concerned they will dismantle the Obama health care program and make major changes in Medicare. “I take care of my father’s medical issues,” he said. “He relies on Medicare, and if we go to a voucher system, it will make everything harder to do.”
According to the Pew poll, 69 percent of boomers say Medicare is “very important” to their vote, which is surpassed only by those 65 and older. Also, 54 percent of likely voters in that age group, according to the Times/CBS News poll, believe that Mr. Obama is doing a better job of handling Medicare, compared with 42 percent for Mr. Romney.
And 30 percent “strongly approve” of the president’s health care program, the most of any age group.
In the last election, Howard Litvack, 53, a finance manager of a car dealership in Franklin, Tenn., backed Ralph Nader, as a protest vote. This time, he says, he’s voting for Mr. Obama. “It’s more important this time to have my vote count,” he said. “There’s more at stake.”
He is particularly concerned about the Republicans’ proposal for privatizing Medicare, which would apply to people under 55, including him. “It absolutely plays into this,” Mr. Litvack said. “I’m interested in how this will affect me, and believe me, it will affect me negatively.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/24/booming/24winerip-booming.html?ref=politics&_r=moc.semityn.www
Ron, thank you. Wonderful post.
Bill in VA - if romney wins, we will know it is another case of "Cheating", not winning. This is starting to become a pattern with you folks - and it is not very pretty.
Ron.......Well said. One has to wonder with all the money Rove has raised and spent, with not great results, that these millionaires and billionaires are not looking for a better return on their investment.
The American people are not as gullible as Rove might think, there comes a time when those ads are tuned out. In this partisan time, at this point it is overkill as most people have made up their minds. But spend away, it employs some and enriches others. Imagine how many that would help feed, cloth and educate in a better world.
Backhouse: You have certainly done your research today.
Pat: I so much appreciate your comments. Sorry about your Patriots. The Colts also lost. But it's still earlly in the season.
It's really that bad. Republicans have engaged in far more than simple obstruction. They have willingly taken steps to insure President Obama's destruction......and OURS. That has to stop.
David, as you said, it really is that bad. The most positive of all this is that these bastards are getting old.
I have a serious philosophical question for all conservatives this morning.
Mitt Romney always claims that it is just fine for him to pay as few taxes as possible, and that if he didn't try to pay as few taxes as possible, then he wouldn't be qualified to be President. I suppose that means that we are supposed to admire the 30,000 millionaires who pay zero in federal taxes. This includes at least 24,000 members of the 1 percent.
Well, okay.
But if that's the case, then why are the 47 percent -- i.e., the rest of the people who don't pay federal taxes -- including seniors, combat veterans, the working poor, and the disabled -- not equally admirable?
Should they not also make every effort to minimize THEIR taxes? Why is it that only the rich are to be admired for limiting their taxes, and everyone else who does so is considered irresponsible and dependent?
Only "elegant" responses, please.
Oh, by the way, about those taxes, it turns out the 47 percent don't really exist --
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/19/heres-why-the-47-percent-argument-is-an-abuse-of-tax-data/
The polls are starting to spread. President Obama's pulling away from Romney in all the key states. Can't wait for the debates. Should be the final nail in the coffin for Willard. Now let's pick back up the House of Representatives and a few more seats in the Senate then President Obama can get about the Countries business and get us back on track.
Oh, look for a few more gaffes from Romney before November.
OBAMA IN 2012.
Bill, Fairfax, put a sock in it! Methodology does not explain why you're not seeing what you want to see. If it did, Rasmussen's electoral college map wouldn't look so much like everyone else's - with Romney in deep sewage! Romney has to score big points in the debate - and, if he bets 10 grand on THAT, it'll be 10 grand circling the bowl!!
Don't carry it all, I didn't see 60 Minutes, but didn't Mitt also say something about going to the emergency room? I don't know what that's all about, except it's not good. This guy hasn't a clue.
Ginberbread Mamma: We all are keeping our eye on voter supression in a number of Red States. Keeping legitimate voters from voting is the only way Republicans can win. That is pathetic and unpatriotic.
Backhouse, you are a wealth of information every single day. Going to be an interesting final month of the campaign.
Anna, there was a wonderful diary posted last night on DailyKos about us being "victims". The diariest pointed out that in fact we are all victims. Of GOP policies.
It was wonderful. I'll see if I can find it for you.
Backhouse........great work. Your research is so good.
Pat, Boston --
Great post, Pat, but unfortunately, it isn't even true that only those under 55 would be affected by the Republican plan. Current seniors would be affected immediately, potentially to the tune of thousands of dollars every year, if Obamacare is repealed, which Romney and Ryan promise to do. The $716 billion would go right back to the gouging insurance companies, and the Medicare prescription drug "donut hole," which Obamacare closes, would be re-opened. Other additional costs would be reinstated for current seniors. Current seniors' Medicare-associated costs go up immediately under the Romney/Ryan plan.
Thanks for the kind words, by the way, and I'll look forward to seeing the article.
Gingerbread Mamma, GOP operatives want to do away with voting rights. They believe that non-affluent folks do not have the right to vote.
..................................
"Voter laws may disenfranchise 10 million Hispanic Americans. "In a report to be released Monday, the civil rights group Advancement Project cites the potential impact of newly restrictive photo identification laws, proof-of-citizenship requirements and late efforts in a few states to remove noncitizens from the voter rolls…" (Krissah Thompson in The Washington Post.)
Studies show that in-person voting fraud is extremely rare. "A new nationwide analysis of more than 2,000 cases of alleged election fraud over the past dozen years shows that in-person voter impersonation on Election Day, which has prompted 37 state legislatures to enact or consider tougher voter ID laws, was virtually nonexistent. The analysis of 2,068 reported fraud cases by News21, a Carnegie-Knight investigative reporting project, found 10 cases of alleged in-person voter impersonation since 2000." (Natasha Khan and Corbin Carson in The Washington Post.)
Conservatives pretend otherwise. "It might as well be Harry Potter's invisible Knight Bus, because no one can prove it exists. The bus has been repeatedly cited by True the Vote, a national group focused on voter fraud.'"(The New York Times.)"
From "The right to vote at risk", Ezra Klein today.
Gingerbread:
Voting rights.
Our democracy is at stake. Literally at stake.
Ryan was booed out of the AARP, I hope he's booed out of Ohio !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AM and Pat Boston, great post this morning. I am a SS and Medicare recipient, and I do not believe for one second, that my present status would remain the same under a Romney/Ryan proposal.
Those of us over 65 and retired, have set our retirement needs based on what we now have, it would be a devastating blow to us, if we suddenly were to be saddled with huge and unexpected medical bills.
Ohio, don't let the 1% mega Rich buy our democracy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Continuing on the subject of Mitt Romney and his taxes, this is a very interesting article that explains a little bit about how Bain manipulates the tax codes to make money --
http://current.com/shows/viewpoint/videos/these-guys-played-very-serious-hardball-insight-into-how-mitt-romney-did-business-at-bain/
Far from "building it" themselves, Bain takes advantage of the tax laws in a very significant way -- Bain buys companies against which Bain can leverage a lot of debt. Bain then takes HUGE tax deductions on the interest on the debt -- essentially government subsidies.
So, we know that Bain takes government money on the front end, as it did with Staples for example. We know Bain uses tax deductions in order to make huge profits on the companies it raids. We know that Romney used more than a billion dollars in government subsidies to "save" the Olympics.
We even know now that Romney used federal government Medicaid subsidies to build Romneycare in Massachusetts --
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/21/how-romney-paid-for-romneycare/
Turns out he didn't build that, either.
Would someone please tell me what it is that Romney actually HAS built, besides a car elevator in his La Jolla home?
Good morning Pat. Dennis, in a post below, addressed Romney's latest healthcare plan it's called USE THE EMERGENCY ROOM!
Obama/Biden 2012.
whats new. You LWNJ's are expldoing this morning. HAHAHA
Wow, there are a lot of fine comments here today, well researched and well written! It gives me hope in this country and its future to have people like Backhouse, David Walker, Pat, Gingerbread Mamma, Anna Molly, Ron, Cal Tom, DCIA and so many others on the side of truth and reason.
Just remember, friends, opinions don't win elections: votes do. Please everyone, in the six weeks we have left, do your part on the ground to get out the vote. President Obama has the best grassroots campaign this country has ever seen. Become part of it if you're not already. It's easy to find a campaign event in your area and volunteer to help re-elect President Obama.
Let's show the GOP that the Presidency of the United States of America is not for sale! Let's throw the do-nothing Republican bums and Tea Baggers out of Congress and the Senate. Let's move this country FORWARD!
Ron,
Karl Rove is Iago to the American public's Othello, whispering untruths into our collective ears, and waging a war of slander and character assasination on Democratic and Independent candidates. His organization does nothing to further a discussion of the issues, he just muddies the waters with his lies and smear campaigns. So appropriate for today's Republican Party.
Romney is trying to convince you that he wants to be the President for 100% of America. That's a nice slogan. However, the facts remain that his budget is more trickle down economics. He clearly wants a top down strategy and there is no way he can do that without taxing the middle class.
It's in everything he says. "47% of people don't pay taxes". You also hear Republicans talking about "broadening the base". This is all code for having the middle class pay more in taxes.
Romney says he'll offer vouchers for Medicare but that you'll have a choice. Well, that's before the elections. Do you think that you'll have that choice after the elections? The party that has always wanted to do away with Medicare says they want to save it? Does that make sense. NO.
So Romney offers a fantasy tax plan (independents looking at it can't get it to work), no plan for health care reform, and a promise not to end Medicare (however his plan of keeping Medicare Advantage makes it insolvent faster).
You decide. I know who I'm voting for.
Backhouse, Ron, GBM, David Walker, Pat Boston, Anna Molly--excellent posts! Great way to start the week.
As a senior citizen receiving social security and medicare, no way would I trust Romney/Ryan not to reduce my benefits. They already promise to "repeal" ObamaCare and that touches medicare.
"George, Crossroads GPS", robo-called Saturday with a long list of lies about President Obama. To listen to "George" lie, it was just short of claiming President Obama was responsible for the crash of 1929.
Let's show the GOP that the Presidency of the United States of America is not for sale! Let's throw the do-nothing Republican bums and Tea Baggers out of Congress and the Senate. Let's move this country FORWARD!
Our sentiments exactly kaybeetoys. We're all in this together to, as you said, move this country forward.
_____________
Good morning to you as well Jody. I feel very hopeful about the election and our country going forward. Very hopeful.
Romney has no foreign policy ideas that were not tried by Bush in the past. All he can do is criticize someone that is doing way more that he or the republicans could ever imagine. And now Romney is saying he wished troops were brought back in a different month. When has Romney ever say he was for ending any war?
They call the president weak on foreign policy because he didnt send troops to Lybia or to Syria. They still dont understand that most Americans want us to pull out of the war we are already in and not go around starting new one trying to show how mighty we are and keep those defence contract war machine churning. At the same time they want more war, the Republicans block a bill that benefited veteran job training. A bill that got 58 vs 40 votes in the senate but was blocked with their filibuster of "lets not get anything done that Obama can get credit for." NO MORE WAR and take care of these veterans first before you propose we go out and make new ones!!
Kaybeetoys:
Thanks for the shout-out. Keep writing as I enjoy your comments as well.
Pat,
Lyin' Ryan got up there and regurgitated the "Death Panel" lie this weekend.
Even though is is by now, thoroughly debunked.
After a while, you start to see SARAH PALIN barking her faux tripe up on the podium, and not PAUL RYAN.
Gingerbread Mamma, and all of you concerned about voter suppression, and this includes all men, PLEASE seek out and join your local chapter of the League of Women Voters. As always, this non-partisan organization works tirelessly to inform the citizens regarding who is running for each elected position, be it school board, judges, state or national offices, and their positions on local and national issues.
We also ensure that EVERY citizen is registered to vote and gets to the polls to cast his or her vote, or knows how and when to use an absentee ballot. Be proactive! Help make sure that no one is denied the legal right to vote in these UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! Many of our grandfathers, grandmothers, fathers, mothers, husbands, wives, uncles, aunts, sons, daughters, grandsons and granddaughters have died for this right! Do not let it slip away........ See you all at the polls in November, casting your informed vote!
Hi Amy:
When you know Karl Rove's tactics, you see them used every day in the Romney campaign. Yesterday Romney was saying President Obama is trying to fool us. Romney is the fool trying to fool us.
Fairfax Bill:
No, they don't. That's total garbage. Any pollster who weighted a demographic based on their turnout in the last election would be laughed out of the business. Pollsters use official census numbers and other professional surveys of the American public to weight their averages. Read Nate Silver's blog. He knows what he's talking about. You clearly do not.
All this diverson because our President is incompetent. The Middle East is preparing for World War 3, and our President is on the Letterman Show. All the Obama camp wants to do is talk about anything but the Middle East and the economy. WHY? Because he is INCOMPETENT!
I agree, its a kind reminder of the arrogance and self serving attitudes I see from the left. "we care about other people." Its almost like you guys try to trick yourselves into believing it. some sort of pyschological self mind screw. Funny how most of you think that erosion personal freedom and choice now equates to protection and security for the good oneself. How one party control equals prosperity (proven to be wrong historically).
Logic escapes you far lefties. Raw emotion and irrational thought rule the day and somehow you think youre superior because of it.
are these the same tactics our current president is using. I imagine anyday now he will use his stellar performance and record as president to seal the deal right? Any day now world Peace should break out since our illustrious leader has one (anyone care to shed some light as to why he has one btw?)
Pat in Boston: Basically Willard implied that the uninsured will still be given the care they need in the emergency room. Having been there, thank God with insurance, it is a very expensive place.
4 more 4 44
When do the Clinton capital gains tax cuts expire?
Rasmussen is showing Obama with 200 "safe" electoral votes and 178 "safe" votes for Romney. That's a close race and puts Romney in good position at this point in the campaign. In his national surveys he shows it 47% Obama to 46% Romney, that's a close race too. He gets to these numbers by using a mixture of 2008 and 2004 turnouts to determine his sample -- which is why his numbers consistently have NOT looked "so much like everyone else's."
The diversion exists because Romney in an inept and incompetent candidate. If he were a good strong candidate, we wouldn't be discussing trivial issues such as undisclosed tax returns, nasty comments vilifying 47% of the population, or tax cuts that favor the Boca Raton elites.
'Also tied to the Romney campaign’s bus tour through Ohio is an exchange of TV ads by the campaigns that’s really almost exclusively about Ohio and its white working-class swing voting population"
I see these two clowns are now playing the race card, well, not surprised.
Ohio, it looks like they are trying to fool you, just show them the middle finger and if possible moon these two clowns as the wander aimlessly around your state...
If it were not for Obama standing up for the middle class and protecting the Automobile industry in Ohio and Michigan, folks would be really hurting worse than they are right now....
Romney wanted you folks to go to hell. Now it's your turn to tell him and Ryan to go to Hell...
Vote Obama/Biden 2012.
Pat - Obama has spent more money then Romney!
David, hi.
Bill Cristol said the Obama Administration inherited the gigantic financial crisis from President Bush, and that PRESIDENT OBAMA HANDLED IT WELL.
Cristol said “If this election is just about the last four years, that’s a muddy verdict. Bush was president during the financial meltdown. The Obama team has turned that around pretty well. Bill Clinton’s speech at the convention was very important in that way."
Obama's strategy from day 1 was to focus his entire campaign on criticising the opposition, rather than talk about his own record and performance as president.
I didn't think it would work, but it has worked wonderfully, seemingly for 2 reasons:
1) Obama has the media on his side. Literally, MSNBC and CNN have been pumping out articles about Romney's tax returns on a daily basis, rather than talking about the real issues. In fact, it seems as though 95% of the articles being written are about Romney, not Obama. Isn't Obama the incumbent, and shouldn't we be focusing our time on his record and policies? And then comparing Romney's ideas to judge if it could be better?
2) Romney doesn't seem to know how to counter those personal attacks effectively.
Media portrayal is an extremely powerful thing. Honestly, Romney could be the nicest guy in the world (fact is, he is well liked personally by both Republicans and Democrats, and he gives an immense amount to charity on an annual basis. He also seems like a gentle guy when he speaks), and Obama could be the biggest a** ever. But how do any of us really know??? No one here has met either candidate.
Yet, when reading MSNBC and CNN, it seems as though Obama is the sweetest, nicest, most positive guy ever, whereas as Romney is a greedy old white guy who is a stuck-up jerk.
geo -- Are you privy to intelligence briefings? Are you an expert in foreign policy? No and no.
Ceasar -- Feel free to make an argument FOR Romney. I can't.
I know you can't, you cant make one for your canidate other than he's not Romney. Well Romney isn't Obama. Thanks for proving your arrogance. So DCIA, you think Obama is going to just start talking about his outstanding and benevolent accomplishments? You know seal the deal eh? Obama thrallism is a disease. Common sense is the cure
Please name me "the MSM" name the company names please. From my perspective, I think the MSM is emotionally invested in making political races a horse race; one where there is no winner or loser until election day. They seem top prefer mis-satting and making up things ABOUT BOTH SIDES. Aside from the obvious left leanings of MSNBC's nightly crew (Maddow, Shultz, O'Donnel, Sharpton, Matthews" and the obvious right leanings of Fox "news" (Shep Smith aside) please name the MSM which is "in Obamas pocket" so to speak? CNN for Obama? Puhleeeze! it appears they were solidly behind Romney before his convention got Eastwooded.
From where I sit and read, most of the radio media is solidly behind the Rush Limbaughs and Micheal Savages of the world. Most print dailys are solidly behind the conservative, (neo-con) brand. Those of you who think the NYT is left leaning are ignoring the fact that the owners are mega rich and more often than not would vote for policies which favor the 1% as opposed to the 99%.
Name "the MSM" by name; even Hannity and Limbaugh rail against "the MSM" when, I would argue THEY MAKE UP MORE OF "THE MSM" than not!
Ron, thanks for a great post.
"After all, corporations are people with endless amounts of money."
And according to RomneyRyan-AynRand-corporate GOP: Corporations & transnationals deserve XXX more votes than American citizens.
I just hope that the last days leading up to the election involve serious debate and ideas. If the American people think that Obama's policies and direction for this country is better than Romney's - he deserves to win.
It's ironic b/c almost no one here understands the American tax system and WHY Romney is paying lower rates. They just believe everything they read. Between the charity and taxes, Romney gives a away a larger percentage of his income than almost everyone, and in absolute numbers, gives more money away than that of 1000 average Americans combined.
And for those who are complaining about the lack of transparency regarding Romney's past - understand that there has likely never been a president in the history of the US with a more mysterious and un-transparent past than Obama. He literally came out of nowhere in 2004 and is president 4 years later, mostly b/c of his remarkable ability to speak and relate to people on TV. If you were to collect all of the information on Obama's past prior to him entering national politics, you could likely contain it all in a few pages.
The entire last half year has been a smear campaign by Obama. Literally, if you stand back and look at it objectively, that's all it has been.
I'm not a fan of where the Republican party is headed and therefore I'm not voting this November, but it's sad to see how American politics are playing out. This election looks like a story out of a celebrity tabloid.
Something in the Air:
To quote the inimitable southern rockers Lynyrd Skynyrd; "Ooh ooh that smell, can't you smell that
smell?"
From the top of the Teapublican ticket to the mercury powered dipping birds that peck the keyboards in
support of their flawed and flailing candidate, the desperation reeks like an overworked hooker dipped
in dime store perfume. All the "well thought out" strategies are flopping harder than the guy at the top
of the ticket. Why? Is it because of the obstruction of the Do-Nothing Congress that keeps Americans
living in the remnants of the "Bushpocalyptic" economy? Is it because not even a PowerPoint presentation
can make a turd sandwich of lies look like even a canape of truth? Is it because the right-wing crypto-
facist take over of the Teapublican party is more apparent than ever, given the adoption of Brownshirt
tactics by groups such as "True the Vote"? (Started by a person owning a gun shop called "Plan B", a
reference to the Tea Party plan for domestic terrorism should their ticket lose.) Yes, yes it is.
Even ostensible friends, supporters and strategists of the Teapublican ticket realize that this contest is
slipping away, as they see the polls bear out their worst fears. Yes, my friends, from Ohio to Florida,
Michigan to Virginia, something is in the air, the dust and smoke of 8 calamitous years plus years
of obstruction are wafted away by the groundswell of support for the President's re-election. If some
coattails appear as the polls margins expand, a new breath of freedom and success for our nation is
in the offing.
T. Money Trim/A Play Run-"Close your eyes and ignore the stench."
more emotional crud from Backhouse. Hey Navy, your far Lefty friends already agree with you. Doesnt make it true however. Tell me Backhouse, better yet show me how Obama never received one red cent from corporation campaign donation. Better to ignore me at this point, the answer is you can't
Caesar Augustus:
DCIA clearly asked for you to make a case FOR Romney. Your reply at 1.53 would embarrass anyone with more than a single-digit IQ.
Now, make your case FOR Romney. I'm sure we're not the only two waiting for a reason to vote for Romney. We're patient. We've already waited five years for Romney to make the case, and he hasn't been able to do it.
Anna Molly--arent you mixing apples and oranges. When you say that there are 30,000 millionares who dont pay tax and are part of the 1%. How many of those do you think are Seniors? You do realize that being a millionare and making a million are two different things right? You someone think there is something wrong with working your entire life and actually saving for retirement and having a million dollars but its very likely you invest in munipal bonds and pay no federal income tax. Whether its admirable or not is irrelevant it just happens to be the way the current tax code works. We all agree it should be changed but what does that have to do with Romney's statements that half of all tax filers dont pay federal income tax and the huge growing entitlement state that Obama has created. Those are legitimate policy questions that should be the forefront of the debate.
Your Bain example is almost beyond silly. First, Bain didnt do anything different than the small business owner who buys his first Dunkin donuts, Subway or small retail shop. They all borrow money from the bank in order to pay for the investment. So what that its deductible, change the tax code again because that just means the cost of capital for the investment is somewhat less. Whether the investment on an operating basis makes money will not be impacted by whether the interest on the debt is tax deductible. Dont forget that Bain is also only making money after they have made money for their investors--primarily union pension plans. You cant criticize Bain for its success unless you think anyone that uses investor money and debt (eg GM, Apple, Cisco and every single large successful company in the US), in order to invest in a business opportunity is really bad.
Stick to telling us why Obama is so wonderful and why his economic policies have benefited the poor, middle class and all of those minoriites the last 4 years. I want to understand what he has done besides making sure that rich women like Sandra Fluke get free birth control.
Well, you know you are in trouble when Grandma and Grandpa boo you out of the house.
Now, I'm starting to think it must suck to be Paul Ryan as well.
Momentum. Tempi (chess term). It defines who is in the drivers seat, who is calling the shots and who is forcing whom into a reactionary position.
President Obama has the momentum. He is in the drivers seat and Romney/Ryan are RE-acting. This is where you want to be if you're the President and definitely NOT where you want to be if you want to have a hope in hell of winning this election.
The polls show it, but more importantly, the Romney campaign VERIFIES IT. There is insider squabbling...too early for that in most campaigns. The candidate's wife melts down and blames her own party...very significant. GOP pundits and advisers are calling for a "shake up" and another "reboot"...that's not good, it's too late in the day for that. Now, today, we see Romney/Ryan doing an all-out effort to turn the tables in Ohio. They are in "react" mode. They are not calling the shots, they are reacting to the President and that's the signal the end is near for Mr Romney and Mr Ryan.
All the Koch's horses and the Koch's men can't put Humpty-Romney together again.
Their massive ad campaign is falling on deaf ears. Why? Because their candidate is trying to be something he is not and he can't pull it off.
Like I said last week, Jesus may have been able to resurrect poor Lazarus, but not even Jesus could resurrect the Romney/Ryan campaign. Run your tricorder over them Bones....."They're dead, Jim."
But our work isn't done. The President will win, but we've got to send him some help. We need to take back the House and get a clear and powerful majority in the Senate. We need people who have the courage of their convictions. People willing to withstand the nattering nabobs and support our President.
There's not much I can do from here in the reddest state in the union where the GOP controls EVERY state-wide office and both houses of the legislature. My vote will not even be counted. But you, in the more rational states can do a lot. This really is the most important election in our life-times. All I can do is send money and my words. You'll have to do the rest.
Obama/Biden 2012
Jody,
AARP knew at that gathering that Paul Ryan was lying about Medicare - which he and Romney would voucherize - and end.
AARP knew that Paul Ryan is wrong about ending the ACA, which is now law, and has the official SCOTUS stamp of constitutionality.
Folks must understand that Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are under grave threat by the corporate right.
RomneyRyan would put an end to ALL of them, no matter how many lies they tell.
caesar....Thank God he is Not like MittWitt. His & Ryan's Pandering to the Old White Rich Male has cost them the election. (that and their flips & lies) As for "sealing the deal" you are 100% right...common sense is the cure. Throw All Rep/Teas OUT. Now that's complete common sense.
#1.51- Doris Kearns Goodwin (Presidential Historian) disagrees with you: FROM: kaystreet.wordpress.com/2010/10/30/obama-administration%E2%80%99s-achievements-thus-far/
He has accomplished quite a lot, just not the types of things which would shut government down as your side wishes!
The Obama Diary:
RT @JamesMuratKing: Kent State students have lined up since 3:30 am to get a ticket to see @BarackObama on Wednesday pic.twitter.com/VzzjMJVU
#######
Isn't this just wonderful how America is coming out to see President Obama and our First Lady, Michelle and VP Joe Biden in droves?
Skip:
Well said, I enjoyed your post.
First, I would say that the fewer laws Congress passes the better. There are way too may laws on the books and many of those are damaging to the US.
Second, Why would you vote for re election someone who has shown a lack of ability to work with members of both parties? It seems like a stinging rebuke of Obama if he is unable to make deals with his political opponents - especially since every one of his predecessors had to figure that one out. Why would we want four more years of that and the subsequent whining about it? At least Romney has a history of working with a hostile legislature and been able to make a deal or two.
Ceasar -- Read David's and FZknew's posts.
The President is doing the best he can under the circumstances. I UNDERSTAND this.
Nothing the Republicans are saying or doing adds up.
Arrogant? According to Jim #'s I'm Magnificent. Ha.
You call FOUL....so is it only the republicans that is getting this tax rate or is the rich democrats and republicans? Lets pretend, we'll look at the flip side of the coin. Let's say Romney is a democrat and not running for office and his tax rate is the same as the Romney that is a republican and running for office would you still cry FOUL?
Have you ever looked at Pelosi or Reeds tax rate or how about any one of the Kennedy's and cried FOUL? I live in the great state of Washington I wonder what the rich democrat Bill Gates or Governor Christine Gregoire tax rate is?
Geez...I wonder what President Obama and his lovely brides tax rate is?
You want to cry FOUL you need to cry FOUL on both sides. You also need to cry FOUL on people who pay little into the system and get back large tax refunds. You better cry Foul on all of those able body people who choose not to work because they can collect more on welfare and food stamps and know how to scam the system. You better call FOUL on our piss poor government and how they screw we the people over and that includes the democrats and the republicans. Last but not least you better call Foul on we the people for being so stupid to not put a stop to our out of control government and you they know they get off on we the people arguing over which team is better, because as long as we the people are divided they can go forward doing what it is they do best....screwing us!
What MSM? Why, all of it.
Reading this
http://www.gallup.com/poll/157589/distrust-media-hits-new-high.aspx
Must make all you "professional" journalists so very proud.
Considering the latest news reports, I'm thinking that there are some who believe that passing off the administration's malarkey as "news" with regard to the Embassy attacks in Libya and Cairo had a negative impact on credibility. First, CBS decided to do its own investigating, then, even the Daily Beast decided to have a little look
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/21/obama-s-shaky-libya-narrative.html
Then there's CNN- seems the State Department is annoyed about this report
http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/20/source-slain-ambassador-stevens-worried-about-security-threats-in-libya/
I'm fairly certain that it would be normal procedure for an Ambassador with strong concerns about his safety, the rise in Al Queda activity, and general bedlam, to have communicated those concerns to others- and that those concerns would have made their way to intelligence reports. Unfortunately, those reports, like most others, have been ignored by the current Commander in Chief, who is too busy to be bothered with such trivia. He's got parties to attend- and money to raise.
As to Cairo- seems nobody but USA Today has a clue what that was all about- a demand that the Blind Sheik, imprisoned for the first World Trade Center attack, be released. Kind of makes you wonder why on earth Obama is pushing this "video" narrative instead.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012/09/12/libyan-officials-us-ambassador-killed-in-attack/57752828/1
From the article
|The protest was planned by Salafists well before news circulated of an objectionable video ridiculing Islam's prophet, Mohammed, said Eric Trager, an expert at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.
The protest outside the U.S. Embassy in Cairo was announced Aug. 30 by Jamaa Islamiya, a State Department-designated terrorist group, to protest the ongoing imprisonment of its spiritual leader, Sheikh Omar abdel Rahman. He is serving a life sentence in the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center.|
Could it be that Obama is actually negotiating to release him? Not now, of course- but, AFTER the election, should he win? Remember, that's when Obama thinks he'll be more "flexible". It's odd, is it not, that with the exception of USA Today, there is almost a total news blackout on this? It's not a surprise, after all-this has been simmering since the end of July
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/30/world/middleeast/morsi-promises-to-work-for-release-of-omar-abdel-rahman.html?pagewanted=all&_moc.semityn.www
Wasn't just the Times, either- WSJ, CNN, and other news outlets covered that aspect of the Muslim Brotherhood victory. I suppose they simply have short memories.
Maybe somebody should look into it- and the violence unleashed when the White House publicized a virtually unknown video as a distraction.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/09/21/obama_clinton_appear_in_pakistani_tv_ad_condemning_anti-islam_film.html
Who knows? Given the egregious misuse of the public trust in this instance, maybe some news organizations are starting to remember their true roles. Could be some get their credibility back.
Here's a timeline, to start you off
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/092112-626667-obama-engineered-rise-of-egypts-muslim-brotherhood.htm?src=IBDDAF&p=full
It's time to put down Obama's gym bag, and start doing some real reporting. It's kind of looking like your very occupations depend on it.
stull -- If you have ever read my posts in the past you would KNOW i'm a strong advocate of a CLEAN TAX CODE.
Kick the lobbyists out. Clean up the CODE.
That is just an excuse. If this is his best then we are truly in trouble. Obama has done nothing but divide and has done little to work with the other side in Congresss. I dont care how few on the opposite wanted him to be a one term president (because I am sure a lot of the left wanted to make Bush a two term president right?)
yet OBama who vowed to remove them has kept them and hired a few. Status quo.
yes and self serving and sanctimonious and handful other labels befitting. Tell me why you think you know better than I?
How shocking! A stuborn GOTPer with radical views that are directly opposed to the majority of Americans...
Undecided voters... SNL hit it out of the park, last Saturday, on that one. If you're still undecided at this point in the election and are planning to vote, please don't, moron.
@Dont_carry_it_all
Thank you and no I have not read your previous post.
I just wanted to point out that both sides have crooks and we need to quit pointing fingers.
Easy to say, but by what measurement?
Economic collapses presided over? Jobs created? Wars mongered?
Maybe you could back that up with something besides flaming rhetoric.
And you and Mitt Romney are the ones who REALLY care?
Talk about a mind screw.
Seriously. Both of you are doing a pretty good job of covering it up.
Seniors having retirement security and reliable medical care to fall back on erodes one's personal freedom exactly how?
You mean it erodes YOUR personal freedom?
You're right. I don't care.
Ceasar -- If CONGRESS continues on their course of destroying our economy WE ARE TRULY in trouble.
stull -- Your welcome. Most Americans want the code cleaned up. Lobbyists pay money to see that it stays very very muddy. They think we can't see the theft that's taking place. I've got news for them. It's clear as day.
Mittens do you consider yourself a victim? How does it feel Myth to be in the 47% who do not pay any Federal Taxes, We know you did not pay any Taxes in 2009, 2010. How come you wont release those years? Did you take the Tax Amnesty? Lets see those Taxes mittens, No Taxes No Independent Votes for you
Ceasar -- Please. I give my opinion. You are free to ignore it. On the lobbyists issue, who writes laws?
-LIES AND MORE LIES
To MIttwitt,
Giving yourself a 14% tax cut and having your billionaires friends pay zero taxes via your 5 Trillion Dollars Tax Cuts is not a jobs proposal for the American people. That is just adding to the nation debt in which you claim is already at a high level.
Is this what your are telling me in slogans - "Hire me and I will give myself and other millionaires and billionaires tax cuts. I will add to the national debt and I will not tell you how I will pay for it"
"I will give our military and additional 1.5 Trillion Dollars and i will not tell you how i will pay for it"
"I think you are stupid so I will repeat "I'll help everyone" over and over again.
Thanks Ron, I always enjoy your posts as well and I really should say so more often.
Obama/Biden 2012
I don't understand what the big deal is with Romney's low tax rates.
Dividends are in theory taxed at the corporate level in addition to the personal level. Rich people often own companies, and receive a lot of dividends. So while it may seem they are paying low rates on those dividends, in fact, dividends are likely the highest form of taxable income possible.
Secondly, the other reason why rich people pay few taxes is because a lot of their income comes from capital gains. The reason why capital gains are taxed at a lower rate is to stimulate investment and to offer compensation for the inherent risk of investing your own saved cash.
Every single American is entitled to these low rates. What's funny is that most people spend all their money and don't save, and therefore don't get to take advantage of these rates by investing in the stock markets or various bonds (especially muni tax-exempt bonds..). Of course, these are the same people who are complaining about the low rates (no kidding!).
I, for one, earn an income and pay a higher marginal rate on that income. But I am also one tries hard to save money, and have built a decently-sized nest egg. Why would I want my investment income rates to go up when I cash out on those investments?? I'm not rich by any means, but I'm happy with the lower rates - who wouldn't be?? Which brings me to my former conclusion - people without any savings are the ones to are unhappy with lower rates on savings.
Well, screw them!
Romney was thinking the same thing with his 47% argument. Democrats are arguing that he's throwing seniors under the bus. Quite the contrary! Seniors live off their savings - beleive me when I tell you, they don't want those low investment tax rates going anywhere. Romney may have been inaccurate with the '47%' statement in terms of who that 47% actually is (for instance, it does include a lot of rich people or seniors), but the thought behind it was correct.
The other thing that I find funny is that the people who complain about lower tax rates for the rich aren't interested in lower tax rates for themselves in the slightest (think about that...). They only want rich people to pay more. Then, they blame rich people for being selfish. How does that make sense?? More likely, they pay so few taxes already, they don't really care about lower rates for themsevles. But when they look at our government borrowing $0.40 for every dollar they spend, in order to support the 'public good', they want someone else to make up that shortfall.
history. simple. show me where one party control has long term benefits? an obscure indian tribe? A commune?
Mitt probably cares as much as Obama in the grand scheme. As to me, its irrelevant WHAT I DO for my my fellow homo sapien (i would hate to say fellow man and offend you freedom fighters). Thats what separates us. I dont espouse what the government should do to help us, I do what i do to help out of my own good will.
sure if they paid into it but AM you're an attorney explain trust fund to us. Really how bout banning toys in happy meals and 'large sugary drinks'. Patriot act anyone?
yes it does as well thanks for acknowledging.
thats not true, you spent a lot of time replying to not care.
Dont_carry_it_all
true but Congress isn't running for president and president would be best served if he worked with both sides.
Snow shoes are helpful in this environment. Michigan are some of the best. Long hard walk capable with a trailing tail for stability.
Vermont snow shoes, smaller, quick through very tough brush.
Mitt seems to think some Wilson carbon fiber tennis rackets work fine with the right sweater.
Keep on moving Mitt!! Make sure you carry some extra balls with you!
No, you're the one who doesn't realize that the modern parlance for "millionaire" is someone whose income exceeds one million dollars a year.
Using your measure of net worth, there are a lot of millionaires; and no doubt, in order to maintain their lifestyles in retirement, many of them are required to pay income taxes on distributions from their 401(k) plans, just like everyone else. Income taxes on a 401(k) plan are paid at higher earned income levels, rather than the investment-income level that Romney pays.
I'm not talking about them, Kirk. Do try to pay attention.
Of course, not. Most of those examples are situations where the investment is used to build something up, not just to set it up to suck it dry. Bain uses investor money to buy a company, incur debt, take write-offs on the debt, strip the assets, fire the workers, and loot the treasury, walking away with big bags of money while the business goes under. THAT's the Bain model. In many cases, even the initial investors get screwed.
If you watch Newt Gingrich's SuperPAC video about Bain, you will learn all about it, especially the part about how they screw other investors. I doubt you will, however, as facts almost always run contrary to the fairy tale you have constructed in your head.
If, on the other hand, you want to read about the "legitimate" capitalist flipside of Bain's business, David Walker's post explains how, even in what appear to be the legitimate businesses that Bain runs, they are still exploiting workers to extract capital.
But I'm sure you won't do that either because David's intellectual horsepower intimidates you.
Have a nice day.
I AM from Ohio and I am not super happy with OBAMA ( resigning the patriot act and bailing out banks was enough for me to take a look at Romney)
Here is the thing I am actually part of Romneys 53%. I own my own small business, I do pay federal taxes but I can't and won't vote for a sniveling fool who moves American jobs overseas. I wont' vote for a man who says that he doesn't care about 47% of the population ( seniors, veterans, lower level military personnel , single moms working full time, young college students--a lot of these people pay few federal income taxes due to deductions)
Romney I AM PART OF YOUR 53% ,FROM OHIO, AND YOU ARE FORCING ME TO VOTE FOR OBAMA.
(It really is time for a third and fourth party)
No one ever asks but we are paying less in health insurance this year than we did last year. I think most centered Americans know that to be a prosperous country we need good basic universal health care especially for American Children and good public schools. Honestly, I can afford to pay for private school and extra health care, but I don't mind paying a little more for other children whose families are not so lucky. All AMericans are in this together don't believe the lies.
like income vs. wealth.
I'm not going to claim that Romney has no chance of winning the election just yet. Who knows what will happen at the debates? But it does look like the probability of Romney winning Pennsylvania is approximately ZERO. (Nate Silver has the odds of an Obama win at 93.6% there). So, it doesn't look like the Republicans' voter suppression laws will "allow Mitt Romney to win" Pennsylvania, as that Republican political hack crowed. If Romney wants to win there, they'll have to do it the old fashioned Southern way: with the police dogs and the fire hoses.
In Romney World, guard towers and a fence around a Chinese factory he toured and spoke about to those Boca Raton millionaires, is a way of keeping unemployed Chinese out rather than keeping an exploited and overworked work force in. How naive. He praises these Chinese factories as something we should see here in America.
Last time I looked, we had no guard towers and fences surrounding American factories to keep the unemployed out. Perhaps, under a Romney Presidency, this will change. Low wages are great for Romney and his millionaire buddies. But they are bankrupting the American worker.
When are we going to see lower wages for millionaire business owners? When they share productivity gains with the American worker? When they receive more tax cuts from a Romney Presidency? When they realize that their customers (taken as a whole) only spend what they earn from working and what their incomes allow them to borrow? When they realize that giving their workers a fairer share of the productivity pie will help their sales and the economy as a whole?
I wouldn't count on it. Millionaire business owners have shipped jobs overseas to increase their profits. Romney and his Bain partners have done this as well. Their increased incomes is all they really want to see. This allows them to think of themselves as winners and the rest of us as just sorry losers who want something for nothing.
What we do want is fairness and a living wage. We want more jobs here in America. We want to work. We want to provide for our families. In Romney World, we are just jealous of what he has.
I am jealous of his 14.1% income tax rate. I wish I had that. Then, I'd have a lot more money in my pocket.
Obama hits a new low:
Calling the death of the U.S. ambassador to Libya, and the storming of U.S. embassies and consulates around the Arab and Muslim world , "BUMPS IN THE ROAD" ??? (During interview on 60 minutes)
Really?!
"BUMPS IN THE ROAD" ???
.
It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic for America and for the entire world that this is the president of the United States at this point in history.
.
The Obama campaign couldn't run on the economy so they ran negative ads and personal attacks!
The personal attacks and negative ads eventually began to turn off voters, so they decided to turn to foreign policy (since at least Romney couldn't claim to have better foreign policy experience!).
But then Obama's failed outreach to the Muslim world and his policies of appeasement and retreat blew up in the administration's faces with this fire-storm across the Muslim world!
And on the anniversary of 9/11 no less!!!
So what do they do? They blame an unknown film maker...
And call it "Bumps in the road..."
But all the biased polls (7% more Dems polled each time!) and all the skewed coverage won't save them!
.
OBAMA HAS FAILED!
TIME TO KICK HIM OUT!
Kirk -- You wrote:
Romney disparges people who FOLLOW the tax laws that were PUT into place by REPUBLICANS and somehow they are takers? Romney qualifies as the BIGGEST TAKER of all under his definition of a taker.
What's WRONG with this picture KIRK?
In your dreams.
That's not what I thought you were talking about, nor is it what I espouse.
But one party control happens to be what Republicans want, not Democrats.
A trust fund, for this purpose, is a fund where Congresspersons and Presidents not worthy of our trust have exploited the fund and extracted from the fund, placing it artificially in jeopardy, thus violating our trust.
Anyone who is getting benefits from the trust fund paid into it, except to the extent that non-working spouses and dependents who survive a working spouse can get that spouse's benefits. Those who didn't pay into the trust fund and require medical assistance may qualify for Medicaid, but that's not a trust fund.
And it's a darn sight better than letting them suffer and die, wouldn't you agree?
On second thought, probably not. Letting seniors live and thrive evidently erodes YOUR personal freedom.
By the way, a trust fund is a lot like a private insurance company, capable of paying benefits only to the extent that the actuarials work out and the investments will sustain the payments.
Both are big ponzi schemes. And like Social Security, insurance companies suffer in hard times.
The difference is that insurance companies, if not otherwise regulated, can drop policy holders and shed lines of business.
Or wait, that sounds a lot like the Romney/Ryan plan, doesn't it?
So where's the "trust" in that?
Wow...
Guys I am in awe...
Pat, Backhouse, Anna, David, Bill, Ron and everyone else who are stating their views in a clear, articulate manner without name calling and pandering... Amazing job everyone...!
As a fighter against uninformed, uncaring, unknowing posters, and just as mired in the much as the lot of them, I can't tell you how ABSOLUTELY Refreshing it is so see careful, thoughtful analysis put down in words in these comment sections.
It's like living underground in the sewers, finding a manhole cover, and exiting upwards to find that the air is much sweeter above ground.
My many thanks for the boost to my sanity from all your carefully crafted and knowledgeable statements.
this is either a reference to the civil rights movement or a belief that the Republican party is a KKK affiliate. However per usual emotion is all you have Houston and you pass it off as some sort of fact. In my view, its an idotic statement with the intent to incite racial tension. nothing more. Houston you think Obama will run on his Noteworthy Presidential record?
twisting my words will no further your agenda.
Your position is far easier than mine. Its easier to say 'hey take from him, he makes more to pay for little jonny.' Yeah real love for your fellow man. Like I said milady, Robin hood (if indeed existed) has no place in current events.
where do you draw the line with regulations, where is the middle ground?
Fairfax Bill, still spewing ignorant nonsense on polls:
No, he does NOT. Rasmussen's methodology isn't as incompetent as Fairfax Bill makes it out to be. But it IS biased in favor of Republicans and it WAS way off in the 2010 Congressional elections. Here are a couple paragraphs from Nate Silver's article about how Rasmussen goofed up in 2010:
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/04/rasmussen-polls-were-biased-and-inaccurate-quinnipiac-surveyusa-performed-strongly/
Wow!!!
What a bunch of hooey! The same argument, different day. Liberals still slamming Romney but giving no reason to boast about Obama... Doesn't ANYONE find that a bit odd? The ONLY thing the liberals are good at is putting Romney down... How about a shift? Try defending Obama's policies. You know why you can't? Because you don't know who Obama is. You think hes the hope and change president, so tell me what's there to hope for? We know what he's changed... he's changed many things the American public is against... but liberals think the American public hasn't noticed. I'll agree, many people haven't... but they will once the changes effect their pocketbook.
I will make a confession.
I was wrong about Obama being a Marxist and a Socialist. He's neither.
Anna Molly--the day David's intellectual horsepower intimidates me is the day I give up being human. There is nothing intellectual about anything David says and most of the time, he is is worse than you in terms of embellishing facts, ignoring inconvienent truths, stretching some obscure fact to make your point and always using the emotional example of a single situation as a proxy for how society should act for the benefit of the whole.
As for millionares, no its not parlance for income as modern day parlance for the use of the term millionare is net worth and you very well know it. That said, you totally ignored my point as always to make some obscure point about high tax rates on 401(k) withdrawals. Of course its taxed at higher ordinary income rates because they are withdrawals of compensation earned while capital gains or even the carried interest is a second tax on that same income. Not sure why its so hard for you to understand that distinction. I am all for changing the tax code to eliminate social engineering deductions and loopholes but that would likely cause some of those 47% you are concerned about to pay some tax (including alot more by the rich).
I am very aware of the private equity model of investment and its not nearly as "bad" and evil as you want to make it. The intent is not to loot the company and make it go under as thats just stupid talk by anti corporate people who dont have a clue on any corporation or investment works. No bank is lending money to put their security or loan at risk and with any investment strategy in distressed assets, there are going to be some that work and some that dont. But my guess is that you think all corporations exploit their workers and prefer the european socialist type model of business. Thats great for you and you should vote for the continued free stuff movement of the current administration as history has a whole list of countries that were powerful and great with that economic policy.
By the way, you forgot to provide that support that shows the comparable benefits of the economic policies of Obama for the poor, minorities and middle class over the last 4 years. Do me a favor and provide the unemployment rates for all of these groups and how they have fared over the last 4 years, how about poverty statistics? middle class income? 1 trillion annually in government assistance? closing of the education gap? Education reform? I assume since Obama is all about protecting the "people" that these groups must have done far better than any other sector over the last 4 years and I assume David's superior intellect will just put me to shame on how wrong I am.
CORRECT, Backhouse. This GOP Congress is the MOST DO-NOTHING ever.
And they get a minimum of $165,000 each for NOT doing it (more for Senators and House leadership).
Considering what they DID manage to pass, though, it's probably better for the country that they didn't do any more.
This is one of those 61 bills they've passed this year:
117,460 American jobs were given to foreigners on these H1B visas in 2010.
Can you tell me why, with our unemployment rate so high, Americans aren't being hired instead? Or why the GOP wants to give MORE jobs away?
Looks like the GOP is really, really worried about immigrants taking American jobs - until their CORPORATE MASTERS want cheap labor!
Only cowards blame others for their failures. A true leader takes action and does not place blame when things don't o his/her way......and a leader NEVER blames his/her predecessor!! Its time to take accountability for failed policies and inexperience. One and DONE, time for a real LEADER!!
Caesar Augustus-
The fact is that Republican-controlled states are passing legislation designed to suppress the vote of African Americans and other minorities. But it's not working. That's a fact, too. Obama's margins in Pennsylvania are just too large for Romney to overcome with voter suppression laws. Of course, they couldn't use police dogs and fire hoses. Federal laws prevent that, although perhaps not the moral restrictions of a large part of the Republican base.
In my view, Mitt Romney's lie that Obama wants to remove the work requirements for welfare, promoted byan ad showing a white worker wiping the sweat from his weary brow, is an idiotic statement designed to incite racial tension. Romney, in his desperation to win the election, has sunk to the worst form of race-baiting.
Here ya go, Brianb:
Best argument there is for not going back to the policies of the GOP:
Private Sector Payroll Employment
This was the CNN Money headline in Bush's last month of office:
So you're saying you're throwing the GOP out of the House? Along with Speaker John Boehner?
You know, the one who said that if we put the Republicans in charge they'd have a "laser-like focus on jobs"?
Looks like the only jobs that laser is focused on are the few still left in this country - to vaporize them!
seniors will die because of the evil republicans LOL. kind of like that.
we would have no companies left but that is for a common sense discussion. no place on FR.
yeah i hear that on the MSM too, doesnt make it true. Tell me how many black or minorities have trouble getting an ID? laziness is now an accpetable excuse? Please just stop Houston, you are trying to further divide by using engineered racism. There is no proof of what you said.
Hey Houston, explain to me why I have to show ID to buy a gun again?
Never mind. You can't see it from where you are because of the curvature of the Earth.
And if you don't believe that, then I caution you not to back up, or you may fall off.
No, but it does further mine.
So, what's YOUR plan for providing care for the elderly and disabled when Medicare and Medicaid no longer exist?
Emergency rooms?
Seriously.
Here's a few facts that we can glean from the "tax summary" Mitt released:
1) He has BOATLOADS of money stashed with Goldman Sachs. (How would that affect how he governs them as President?)
2) He's a partner in at least 30 overseas partnerships. (How would that affect his foreign policies?)
3) In 2005, his foreign taxes were $333,149. 2006 was $276,386. 2007 was $275,488. 2008 was $151,015. (How much money must he have overseas to owe that much in foreign taxes?)
4) And, apparently, Mitt paid NO U.S. income tax in 2009, since he has an $18,937 foreign tax credit left over from that year that he applied to his 2011 U.S. taxes.
Very, very interesting!!!
ACountryHeadedTowardsAWall
Exactly. That's why the Republican cowards are blaming President Obama for their own failures to get important work done in their monomaniacal zeal to defeat Obama at all costs, even if they have to hurt U.S. military veterans to do it, as with their despicable blocking of the veterans jobs bills they co-sponsored. The Republican "leadership" refuses to take responsibility for their failure to lead.
RAF said:
Here ya go, Brianb:
Best argument there is for not going back to the policies of the GOP:
Private Sector Payroll Employment
This was the CNN Money headline in Bush's last month of office:
Who was in charge of both branches of Congress during this time? In fact during the deepest part of the job loss, the democrats held the purse strings of this country... and you blame the GOP while the democrats were in charge? What world are you from? Bizzaro?
To N-529260, Caesar, and Kirk...
I'll make the assumption that the three of you are probably familiar with "Atlas Shrugged". It was the story of the looting of America, by the people who made nothing, built nothing, and provided nothing of value to America. It was the suppression of the industrialists and "do-ers" in our country, the constant demands that they provide more, and more, and more, until there just wasn't anything left to give. It was the tale of the eventual destruction of American by the Welfare Mothers and Government Moochers who could only wander around the desolated landscape looking for the next corporation to rape and pillage all while shrugging their shoulders and saying, "Who is John Galt".
Believe it or not, we're seeing something very similar taking place in America today. However, it's the direct polar opposite of Ayn Rand's scenario. In this new scenario, we have lots and lots of people out of work WHO want to work. Nobody wants to stay at home every day, eating cheap mac-n-cheese and spending their days watching Jerry Springer (well maybe a few, but not as many as you think). Everyone I know would like a job. Everyone I know would like to pay their own way through life. Everyone I know would like a job that they can excel at, grow with, and eventually build a career out of... That's being taken away. That is what this election is about...
So, what's going on?
To those who say, "There. Mitt provided his taxes. He paid his share. Now leave him alone about it.", I'd like to notify you all of the following:
Did you know that the US Tax code back in th 1940's and 1950's had the top tier income's tax rates set to a huge 80-90% tax rate?
Yet... Somehow...
Our country saw it's biggest boom and greatest economic expansion during these years. It was known as a progressive tax rate. It was a way for the richest members of our society to acknowledge the benefits they received from living in a capitalistic democratic society that allowed them to reach the riches they had obtained. So, if a guy earned 100 Million dollars one year, he'd pay back 80 to 90 Million dollars into the system.
If we port that argument over to the poor guy who made 10,000.00, then this seems horribly unfair. Taking 8,000-9,000.00 away from a poor guy and leaving him with only 2,000-1,000.00. Draconian!
But back to the top cream of our society. Back in the 1940's and 50's. Our Mega-Millionaire who earned 100Million dollars that year, got to keep 10-20Million dollars. Enough to buy a couple of houses, a yacht or two, vacations for his family, college educations for his children, and all the luxuries that 1940-1950 society could provide them.
This was a progressive tax rate. When you make your arguments about "Mitt paid his 14% and we should stop whining", let me agree with you. This is a very reasonable statement on your part. He paid, there's the evidence (even though he seemed to pay very little). It is at this point that the principals of "Atlas Shrugged" starts to break down, and we start to see the fallacy in Ayn Rand's thinking. How much earnings should someone be allowed to keep as they crest one milestone after another (breaking 1million, breaking 10million, 100million, 1billion dollars)? On the surface it just makes sense that people keep what they make...
However, I don't think you gentlemen (N, Caesar, and Kirk) realize that your statements amongst yourselves are similar in nature to the cows being led down a maze of narrow corridors, deeper and deeper into the slaughterhouse, as one cow says to the other, "This isn't so bad. We're hanging out, walking around, enjoying the day, our human handlers are really nice people. They really look like they know what they're doing. We should just keep doing what they tell us, and everything's going to be okay".
You're only kidding yourself. The richest members in our society are not terrible concerned with patriotism towards their country; they are more motivated by the concept of "More" and "Mine".
Let's talk about what really happens to our taxpaying citizens who make a millions upon millions every year.
You can only buy so many houses, so many cars, so many yachts, and so on before "buying stuff" doesn't adequately spend your money. You can squrrel all your money away and build vast heaps of reserve dough, but that money does very little for you then. You can invest it and become even richer still. How could you invest it? You could buys stocks, and bonds, and CD's, and the usual items that go into a financial portfolio for the very rich. You can trust fund it, and you can invest in retirement accounts. Eventually even that leaves the very rich with excess money left in their hands. What to do, what to do...?
Invest in Governement is another way. Become part of a Special Interest group that have their own lobbyists that petition legislators to do things like... Oh... Drop the tax rate on the very wealthy and the corporations they own. Maybe even convince the legislators that reduced tax rates on extremely wealthy people and corporations will inspire them to become job creators. The funny thing about Lobbyists... They don't care about the rest of the American people. They have no interest in Billy Joe Bob and his failing farm. No concern about the legless vet coming back from Afghanistan to no house and no job. No worries about the Senior Citizen on a Social Security income of $800 dollars a month making a decision between the medication they need to survive and their desire to eat at least one meal a day.
Let's think about this more...
Let's go back to our America of the 1940-1950's. So, we had this high tax rate for our highest earners. Did they stop "creating jobs"? No. If anything, it spurred these 1-Percenters onward to make more money to further increase what they got at the end of each year. America prospered during this time. More than any other time in our history.
In the 1960's and 1970's, this higher tax rate for the higher earners was relaxed to 40-70%. Through the 1980's, 1990's, and into the 2000's, it was relaxed even more. Now, people like Romney can pay only about 14% in Federal taxes. They hide their earnings in stock shares and claim this money as Capital Gains so they can achieve this low rate.
In our this scenario... Is our nation prospering like it did in the 1940's and 1950's?
See, it's really a matter of income inequality. The chasm is widening, not because poor people won't get off their butts and work. Not because the government isn't doing their job. The problem is the government IS DOING the job they're being paid to do by the Lobbyists who are financing them.
The extremely wealthy and the affluent businesses can afford Lobbyists who represent their special interests. These Lobbyists spend a lot of the wealth they received amongst our nation's legislators in order to ensure their specific pet projects and tax breaks get enacted. This is what has happened to our tax rates on the extremely wealthy since the 1940's. It's a never ending concession to the wealthy to "keep them happy, and keep them 'creating jobs'". In the meantime, the extremely wealthy and affluent businesses have been working tirelessly to scale back their worker's benefits and pay.
Did you know in the 1980's Reagan and Bush managed to freeze the Federal Minimum wage for 9 years straight. Inflation kept going, but minimum wages were at a standstill. Effectively giving people earning at this rate a "Pay Cut" for every year the wage was frozen.
So... Republicans... Kept prattling on with your "Atlas Shrugged" principals. You will make the wealthy wealthier and the middle class and lower classes poorer. Its a great concept: You should keep what you earn. On a gut level, that makes great sense. Unfortunately, it creates huge divisions in our society. It widens the income inequality ("Those welfare mother's need to get off their asses and get a job"... I know, I know), and will eventually lead our nation back into a feudal serfdom where very few people own most of the nation's assets, and the rest of us work for them hoping to be thrown some table scrapes from time to time.
Think about this...
Why is the current tax bracket for Millionaires, Corporate Executives, and other high level Corporate citizens at historical lows WHILE the Capital Gain's tax rate is also at historical lows? Because the people with lots of money control the lobbyists, who control the PAC and Super-PAC money, and (as as side benefit) often have the ear of our elected officials BEFORE the elected official even spends any time listening to any individual citizen.
Think about this too.
Since 1978 average worker salaries have grown by only 5.75% in 2011. Average CEO pay has grown by 725%. That's right. The richest people in our society (Like Mitt Romney) have been jacking up their pay over the past 35 years, while also lowering their tax rates and the amount of money they put back into the system that allows them to reap this level of wealth.
Not to mention. In order for CEO's to keep giving themselves these outrageous raises every year, they have to prove that they are successful at running their businesses. How do they do that year after year after year? Sometimes they're terribly profitable and that's all that it takes, other times they have lean years and dismiss their workers to ensure they keep their bottom line in the realm to ensure they get all their bonus' for that year (don't worry about the worker, he'll find another job eventually).
Are you all still okay with this level of pillaging? No outrage at the "pigs at the trough"? Does anyone NOT believe that the 1% are rigging the game, and are responsible for taking the American dream away from the rest of us? Greed and Avarice are sins. When do we as a nation say "Enough is Enough" and actually go back to a tax rate that is progressively tiered to prevent the richest of our citizens from buying our government?
It's not class envy or class warfare, it's actual concern that a very small segment of our country owns a vast amount of our country; AND, through their lobbying groups also own a large percentage of the legislators we believe we voted into office to work for US!
Romney just happens to be the "Poster Child" for the greedy, binging rich we should have reign in after Wall Street crashed and burned back in 2008. Why would ANYONE put this guy in the White House? Why not just bail Bernie Madoff out of Jail, or go dig up Kenneth Lay and put him in office?
...Sorry... That was really long... Problem I have whenever I get on my soapbox. My apologies...
Kirk --
The rest of your reply to me is the usual poppycock, but I feel compelled to reply to this --
Seriously. This is just uninformed. Bain did it all the time when Romney worked there and often used Wall Street banks as their shills.
Watch the video, and remember that Newt's fans were responsible for it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLWnB9FGmWE
What else would you expect from a man who learned business from Michael Milken?
If that's your "guess," then you seriously know nothing about me.
By the way, have you been paying ANY attention at all to what austerity is doing to Europe?
Caesar Augustus-
I don't think they allow mentally unstable people to purchase guns even with an ID.
Brianb, can you point to any of President Obamas policies that have been passed in the last two years? Didn't think so. During his first two years, he had a Congress willing to work with him and literally save the country. Democrats and Republicans together. They turned the GWB mess around and we started growing. We are still growing slowly, but have wasted two years thanks to who?
The only reason all that right-wing BS got passed was because the Democrats in Congress WORKED WITH the President and the GOP.
Who's running both houses of Congress now?
Oh, that's right, the GOP! (can't pass anything in the Senate without 60 votes - just see the veterans' jobs bill)
Yet you want to blame Obama. Right?
TOTAL lack of personal responsibility. That's all we get from the GOP.
We work with you and give you what you want, it's our fault. You refuse to work with us and nothing gets done, and it's STILL our fault? Really?
RAF said: You know, the one who said that if we put the Republicans in charge they'd have a "laser-like focus on jobs"?
Looks like the only jobs that laser is focused on are the few still left in this country - to vaporize them!
RAF - do tell me how many jobs bills the GOP led house has written? Any idea? How many of them have been passed along to the Senate to have them thrown on Harry Reid's table and are still sitting there? Huh? All of them? Did I hear you say all of them? It seems to me that the GOP has kept to their word... but are being thwarted by your favorite son Harry Reid. Ummm what party does Harry Reid belong to? Was that Democrat I heard you say? Yes, you are correct... Harry Reid the DEMOCRAT is holding up jobs because his favorite place for GOP bills is on his table.
Houston!
apparently Little Seizure thinks that buying a gun = voting
Next he will ask you to explain why he has to show his license when pulled over by a cop.
Ana Molly - I see you're trying to reason with Kirk. Has he changed the meanings of your posts yet - to fit what he wants them to mean? That's his usual. Or, if you don't agree with him he will become paternalistic and arrogant - talking down to you because, how dare you disagree with him?
A lot of us just ignore him after trying to have a civil discourse with him. It's futile and frustrating!
Anjisan - great post!
Obama/Biden 2012
RAF said: Oh, that's right, the GOP! (can't pass anything in the Senate without 60 votes - just see the veterans' jobs bill)
Speaking of the veteran's job bill... have you read it? Do you know what's in it? Do you know why it wasn't passed? Well, do ya?
how hard is to look down your nose again? you cried regulation as if it were the solution to gordians knot.
liar lawyer mirror show you. I know it does and it proves my point and thus Kirks.
I never said Medicare or aid has no place, neither does Romney/Ryan. But robbing Peter to pay isnt the solution.
what about them? they're here, not going anywhere.
im sure you have a point. Aside from its the Republican greed. Im sure you are familiar with Obama's hardwork and sacrafice that has put him right here right now huh?
John Kerry? You do realize there are quite a few rich democrats? Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, Hollyweird?However somehow you under the impression Romney is going to start some plutocracy (already exists).
greed knows no party affiliation and that is where you failed. its wholly wrong to believe that Democrats care about everyone except the rich and republicans only for the rich. This is where the self serving arrogance rears again its ugly head.
Houston!
Caesar Augustus-
thank you.
both are constitutional amendments but I think BayLIE didnt realize it. just one needs an ID(unconstitutionally technically) and one doesnt. Both equally important I think is what I am getting at. Dont be so Obtuse
If you are "very aware" of the private equity model and insist on writing what you did, then you are simply apologizing for it.
I graduated with an MBA from a MAJOR PRIVATE U.S. University in 1983 which not only taught us the Chicago school of thought, but other schools of thought as well. The Chicago school theories, as actualized by Milton Friedman and his "Chicago Boys" starting in the mid 1970s, was created to do EXACTLY what you say private equity investing does not do. The (first) movie "Wall Street" outlines exactly what we were taught as part of the Chicago theory. You identify a company with decent earnings, but on the downside of profit growth with large assetts such as airplanes OR pension funds. You then buy up as much of its shares as possible, then when you get to some sort of voting strength (you do not even have to be near majority-usually 5-10% of ownership will do), you start voting out the board members and replacing them with cronies of the takeover entity. Those board members then either make certain that loans and investment capital comes from investors or investor groups simpatico with the takeover entity and start adding mountains of unnecessary debt to the bottom line. then, when the debt appears too unweildy, you point that out to the baord and shareholders making the case for "shedding assetts" or consolidation and eventually bankruptcy.
All through the process, the investment equity firm earns fees and even has some people take salary positions at the "failing" company which can add up. Once the company is "in debt" and is deemed to be ready for bankruptcy, then the legal process takes over, the pension fund(s) are allowed to be used as collateral for paying off the debt(s) and all former employees who held the pensions are told there is no money in the pension fund. Worse yet, there is a federal program the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation , which then is saddled with paying out the pensions from bankrupted companies to its' pensioners at incredibly reduced rates (10-40% on the dollar). SO, in effect, companies such as bain Capital not only rob the employees jobs, they steal their pensions, THEN make the Federal Government Guarantee portions of the pension fund payout as part of the bankruptcy process!
www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard43.html
www.pionline.com/article/20120222/REG/120229981
www.realromneyrecord.com/cases/gst-steel
www.democracynow.org/2008/10/6/naomi_klein
www.nytimes.com/2010/11/16/business/16pension.html?_r=0
the money quote from the NYT article:
Houston!
what I find to be a MEGA ROMNEY HYPOCRISY (and there are so many to choose from) is the fact that Romney stated on 60 minutes that he needs TWO TERMS to turn the economy around...at the same time, he's whining that President Obama is not shoveling the Republican sh*t fast enough...
Republican Congress 800 billion for war, not paid for = YES
Republican Congress 1 billion to help veterans returning from that war, paid for = NO
Call me ignorant, but I just don't get it.
ir2 said: Brianb, can you point to any of President Obamas policies that have been passed in the last two years? Didn't think so. During his first two years, he had a Congress willing to work with him and literally save the country. Democrats and Republicans together. They turned the GWB mess around and we started growing. We are still growing slowly, but have wasted two years thanks to who?
ir2 do you understand the fundamental differences in ideology? Tell me why it is necessary for the conservative side to capitulate with the liberal side when the ideologies are heading in different directions? If you totally disagree with something, why should you make concessions for that with which you disagree with? Let's say you were an alcoholic on the wagon. Your friend comes along and says to you, awww only one drink won't hurt you... you won't get drunk... should you take that drink?
We are a country deep in debt... in fact that debt threatens our very existence economically. Should we take the drink of borrowing more money to pay for some social program the democrats want to add into a bill? What's another trillion dollars? It won't break the bank... or will it? I hope you see the point here and reconsider your position.
ANJISAN: No need to apologize. I found your post well-written and informative. Especially the part about:
Since 1978 average worker salaries have grown by only 5.75% in 2011. Average CEO pay has grown by 725%. That's right. The richest people in our society (Like Mitt Romney) have been jacking up their pay over the past 35 years, while also lowering their tax rates and the amount of money they put back into the system that allows them to reap this level of wealth.
This is seriously decimating the American Dream. We are fast becoming a 3rd world nation--with the Rich getting richer--the poor poorer--and the Middle Class disappearing.
They want new friends because the ones that know them, have turned on them.
Watch out of Republican dirty tricks. American crossroads is irresponsible for those messages.
Brianb1956
ask the Republicans because the Republicans as well as the Democrats worked together on this bill. Untill the 4 Republican cowards voted against it.
Senator "Coward" Coburn (and the other 3 Coward Stooges) was worried on how the spending bill might impact on our children in the future. While the 4 Coward Stooges don't give a f*ck about the children of the veterans who go off to risk their lives for their country and return unable to gain employment or those who died and will never come home.
Republican hypocrites: send other people to war, used them, and then treat them like garbage when they comeback.
I guess it's not any different than deffending the unborn until they are born because once they are born, they don't matter as much as the defense spending or tax cuts for the rich.
Tell you what, Brianb - I'll give you a rational argument for why the veterans' job bill SHOULD have been passed...
As soon as you give me a rational argument why the H1B visa expansion bill WAS passed.
C'mon - I dare you.
I appreciate your advice, but I had him and JoAnna and others on ignore, and then I couldn't see their comments at all. This way, I can just ignore them if I want to, or not, if I want to.
Golly, Molly, did you miss the point on that one. I was just showing you how a twist is REALLY done.
"Here's looking at you, kid."
I think that rather overstates what I said, which was more of an observation than an endorsement, and limited to insurance regulations. If you weren't such a coward, you would admit that what I said is true.
And I never said you did. But the Kaiser Foundation says that Medicare is bankrupt in 2016 under Romney/Ryan, and Medicaid, I'll assume, not far behind.
http://www.examiner.com/article/kaiser-romney-vow-to-repeal-obamacare-will-make-medicare-insolvent-by-2016
So, I guess you'd better start thinking in the long term, like President Obama has been trying to do. The $716 billion in cuts that were built into Obamacare were designed to make Medicare solvent until at least 2023.
Well then, Peter, we're right back to my question. What's YOUR plan?
bayllie
I commend you for having the fortitude to sit through a Romney interview. I can no longer stand the sight nor the sound of him for more than a few minutes. So, Romney wants eight years to fix the economy but he only allows Obama four? That's just typical Romney hypocrisy in action.
He also said that a president should be given 6 months to a year in office before that president's policies can be judged on their effectiveness, but he starts counting job losses under Obama in January 2009, when Obama wasn't even in office yet for the first two-thirds of the month.
Brianb, worrying about the debt is what is wrong with your theory. If the debt is a problem, why are 30 years Treasury Bills under 3%. When the Fed starting printing money, why did the Treasury Bill rates drop. If you are so worried about the debt, why do you support someone who wants to cut taxes. If you still believe in the trickle down theory, you need to realize that the rich are not going to make jobs. It has not worked and a case could be made that it made things worse. (dot com bubble, housing bubble) If you want to make business people rich, give everyone making less than a 40,000 a year a 1000 check. They will spend it. At least that way, the Koch brothers are going to have to earn it instead of just handing it over to them.
Anjisan1963 in post 1.103 makes the best case for socialism I've read on these boards. No wonder people actually dislike capitalism.... They buy into the theory that a person runs out of things to do with their money when they make more than they can spend.
It appears as though the rationale used in this post points towards taxing the rich at a greater rate because they don't need the money their higher income level provides. Since they don't need it, they should give it to the government so it can be spent by other people (politicians).
The one thing I didn't see anywhere in the post was a point where the government should show restraint in their spending. It is all about those who make gobs of money providing for those that don't. All to be distributed by the trusted government who needs to take care of everyone who doesn't have as much as other people who know how to make money. This Robin Hood mentality is the very root of socialism and redistribution of wealth... the stronghold of socialism.
Looks like Brianb's calls for "personal responsibility" only last until he's asked to put up or shut up.
What Caesar is apparently too stupid to understand is that thousands of people are killed or wounded every year by people with guns who shouldn't have them. There are one or two cases of voter impersonation in a given year, if any in the entire country. There is a gun violence problem. There is NO voter impersonation problem that compels forcing people to go through a sometimes tortuous process to secure a photo ID for voting. It took one elderly woman in Pennsylvania four hours to go through the red tape the new Pennsylvania voter suppression law requires.
RealAmericansFirst
Brianb's answer should be:
because every 18 minutes a vet commits suicide
because we ask of these people to give up their jobs, their families, their health, their homes to fight wars most of us don't want to go to
because we have an obligation to take care of the vets and their families financially, physically, and emotionally
because it's the right thing to do
instead, people like Brianb make excuses why we shouldn't. AND THAT'S HORRIBLE!
Romney? Lying Ryan: Proof positive that the corporate and business world has bought or is trying to buy this election!
Romney wants to blame Obama and China for the unemployment here, well if corporations didn't outsource the jobs from here all the people who were put out of work would be working. This is coming from a corp. raider who bought companies raped them of all funds including pensions and sent any remaining jobs overseas. The GOP has blocked any bills which would have helped create jobs and any bills that would have stopped giving payola to companies who sent jobs out of the country. What the Romneys of the world want is to return to the Charles Dickens society where the rich take everything and the rest of the people are there only to serve.
FZknew- it's hard to believe anything else you ever post, given what you posted last.
You complete misconstruing of what constitutes the Chicago school, while informing us you have advanced business degrees is so ludicrous it is almost indescribable.
For the benefit of any who might have been taken in:
The Chicago School is a philosophy of free market economics- so named for the Iniversity Of Chicago School of Economics, where Milton Friedman was a professor. This school of thought posited that stagflation had, at it's root, government interference in the free exchange of goods, and rationalized that removing government barriers would allow the market to equalize prices, thus "breaking the back" of inflation.
The problem in the '70s, economically speaking, was that so few understood the reason for high inflation at the same time as high unemployment- it had, at its root, a supply deficit- causing cost-push inflation; not "too many dollars chasing too few goods, or demand pull inflation.
The proof that the Chicago School thinking about increased supply equalizing prices was proven almost immediately upon its adoption by Reagan- as inflation fell dramatically, without any trace of deflation, as we have today, (which, in fact, is a serious problem inherent in Keynesian economics, as we see today).
The Chicago School has nothing whatsoever to do with investment banking tricks, stock manipulation, or anything else you've gleaned from watching movies. You do yourself a disservice positing such nonsense, and cloaking it as educated discourse. Perhaps you should do a little research next time, before posting something so obviously nonsensical.
oh yes, like all the upstanding citizens in LA and Chi town right? Lets see how many of those that are killed by obtaining guns illegally vs legally? Houston is a race baiter nothing more. Houston just believes one part of the constitution is open for trashing whilst another part isnt. Simple as that.
i believe there is privacy issues behind that. much harder to validate that way. nice try
im sure you're going to cite this red tape. You mean sitting at the DMV to get an ID? who's never had to wait long? quit cherry picking situations to fit your agenda.
Houston!
bayllie
please, you are giving me too much credit. I cannot stomach Romney for more than few minutes so that's what transcripts are for.
I cannot stand looking at Romney since the day a woman was crushed to death by falling cement in a Boston Big Dig tunnel. Romney showed up, rolled up his sleeves, got down on his knees, let the press take some photos, and did.....NOTHING.
If you ask him today, he will tell you nothing was done because of the Mass legislature. But the hypocrite had the power to go after those who used subpar materials that cause the death of Milena Delvalle. Romney didn't because they padded his pockets during election.
And that was the day I could no longer stomache looking at Romney for more than 5 minutes before wanting to throw something at my TV.
Brianb - The rich need to pay their fair share. As do the corporate "people" in this country.
Middle income earners in America pay an average of 31% of their income in taxes (income, payroll, state and sales taxes).
Upper income people (I don't say "earners", because they mostly get their money by sitting around waiting for investment earnings to roll in) pay an average of 15%.
36% of all federal revenues now come from PAYROLL TAXES.
60% of American corporations pay no income taxes.
You can look at this chart and see how working people, even POOR working people, have shouldered the burden of taxes in this country:
Sources of federal revenue, 2011
Sources of federal tax revenue, 1945-2010
That's more than Mitt paid.
The GOP has created a revenue shortage in this country by giving away huge tax breaks to the wealthy. And now their cry is "not one more penny until every program that helps the poor and middle class is taken away".
Hey GOP?
NO!
Brianb, no one is saying the rich don't need the extra money they earn. There is a good chance that in the process of earning that money, the rich used (or took advantage of) national resources at a greater rate than someone that cannot even afford to take a vacation. Is issuing passports worth borrowing money from China for. Let's just cut the passport office.
While we are on borrowing money from China, your candidate does not even realize who owns the national debt. The British have almost twice as much of our debt than China does. Why he not demonizing Great Britain?
You don't have to anwser that, because we all know the reason.
Mitt is a very flawed candidate and his only hope of winning is uninformed voters.
Two words accurately describe the Obama first term, blame and excuses. Then of course failure, lack of leadership, and big spender all come into play. Obama has no idea how to lead, all he can do is blame someone else for his failure. True leaders overcome the obstacles, they do not make excuses for not rising above them. For the first two years Obama ruled the kingdom of Washington, with both houses in his pocket, and although he rammed through healthcare he was unable to get anything else done. So republicans were unable to stop the healthcare takeover, but liberals still blame them for every other Obama failure. How convenient.
ir12 said:
Brianb, worrying about the debt is what is wrong with your theory. If the debt is a problem, why are 30 years Treasury Bills under 3%. Because the government can't sell them. There's nobody wanting to buy Treasury Bills when you can invest your money in options that yeild 12% or better.
When the Fed starting printing money, why did the Treasury Bill rates drop. If this isn't obvious to you then you need to take an economics class.
If you are so worried about the debt, why do you support someone who wants to cut taxes. Because you are misguided on what he wants to cut taxes on. Besides, it is yet to be seen if he will cut taxes or if this is just propaganda fed by the left. If you are so against cutting taxes, why do you support Obama since he kept the tax rates in check and supported lower taxes?
If you still believe in the trickle down theory, you need to realize that the rich are not going to make jobs. Who said trickle down has anything to do with job creation? Trickle down has to do with additional taxes, not job creation. Maybe you should try to at least understand the purpose of Trickle Down instead of inserting your own though process into it's purpose.
It has not worked and a case could be made that it made things worse. (dot com bubble, housing bubble) These problems had nothing to do with taxes. They were a problem because of government interference and policies.
If you want to make business people rich, give everyone making less than a 40,000 a year a 1000 check. Do you think I believe in Robin Hood socialist methods? Think again. If they want an additional $1000 they should earn it.
They will spend it. At least that way, the Koch brothers are going to have to earn it instead of just handing it over to them. Do you have Koch brothers jealousy? I know, they have more than you do so you are envious. You do realize that this is America and you are as free as the Koch brothers to make as much money as they have. Sounds like you are envious, but will deny it in order to save face.
Rick - you need to get out of the FOX bubble and learn some facts.
The Democrats had a majorities in both houses of Congress for portions of 6 months - due to vacant seats not being filled, Teddy Kennedy and Robert Byrd being out sick (and then dead) and special elections.
You can divert blame all you want, but this is the GOP's recession, through and through.
The GOP reminds me of the bunch of little boys who found some fireworks, lit them and stuffed them into the local gas station's storage tank.
Then they ran away and watched it blow up from a hill.
As the cleanup crew picked up the pieces, they ran back down the hill and said, "Wow, you sure made a mess!"
"Can we have some of the leftover fireworks?"
I'm not discussing Republican or Democratic greed. I'm addressing corporate and wealthy citizen's greed. What political party they belong to has no actual bearing on this discussion. In "Atlas Shrugged" I don't think Ayn Rand made the distinction between Republicans or Democrats. Mostly she described individuals who were bucking a system consisting of looters.
The question you and I (Caesar) need to answer is who is the greatest threat to America, and who constitutes the larger looter that must be put back into check? The welfare mother at home, or the Corporate/Individual entity using the system to limit the amount of money they put back into the system (as an example: Look at Exxon/Mobile's profits for 2011 and compare those profits to what they paid in taxes - now think about what you're paying at the pump. Tell me there isn't some looting going on.)
I am aware of rich Democrats as well who take advantage of the system. During my time as a Reagan Republican (during which time I read "Atlas Shrugged" an insane half dozen times) I loathed their touchy-feely help the poor mantra so much. However, what's the point of having a government in charge a country if you can't rely upon your government to take care of its people from time to time? I'm all for self-responsibility, but bad things happen. Do we just cut the cord on people once they're born and wish them luck? There's gotta be a middle ground.
Again, I agree with you. My point about Romney is this. He's a "Larry the Liquidator" sort of businessman. He's not even a Robber Baron from the 19th Century. At least those guys left things behind: Copper Mines, Lumber mills, Railroads, etc... Romney only leaves behind a paper trail leading all the way to his offshore accounts in the Cayman Islands.
Now, if Romney only dabbled in Venture Capital endeavors, that would actually be pretty decent of him; however, a lot of his work evolved around the business practice known as a Leverage Buyout. For those readers on the board, let me explain how a LBO works:
Bain (Leverage Buy Out) Company Procedures:
1. Take a little seed money (10-15 million)
2. Locate target company (Low debt / good cash flow / maybe lower than expected profits)
3. Take out a big loan (100-200 million). Use borrowed money to buy majority share of stocks in targeted company.
4. During hostile takeover process, bribe upper management of company with promises of bestowing upon them "Golden Parachutes" so they don't buck the process.
5. Take over company, replace board of directors with Bain board of directors.
6. Assign loan debt from Step #3 as a loan requirement of newly taken over company as part of their "restructuring" process.
7. Have newly acquired company pay Bain back their original 10-15 million seed money.
8. Award new board of directors hefty bonuses for a "Job Well Done".
9. . Company is cut loose to either survive (ala Staples) or to wither and die (ala KB Toys). Doesn't matter. Bain got what they wanted.
...and that's how a good portion of Bain Capital operated. Is Romney really the right guy at the right time to lead our country? I just can't help but seeing him putting us in a big U-Turn and driving us right back to the abyss we missed in 2008 and plunging into its depths.
And Obama can save us from that. Just like he did the first 4 LOL. Oh yeah its the minorty tea parties fault and the filibuster. But you saved GM and Osama is dead. Am I missing anyother excuses? Bushes fault still?
I am wondering if liberals like RealAmericansFirst and IR12 ever read their own posts and see exactly what they are saying. Their argument for rich people paying more taxes is so outlandish it borders obsession. When RAF and IR12 can pay millions to the government in taxes, then and only then do they have a leg to stand on.
Do either of them realize that the tax codes are written by rich people... DEMOCRATS and republicans. Their argument seems to be centered on only republicans not paying their fair share. Their argument completely falls apart because of this one item.
Well, since you claim that 47% of Americans pay no taxes, how's that going to work for them?
Oh, wait - it's NOT!
Warren Buffett is a rich American. Barack Obama is a rich American.
Both Democrats. And both are wiling to pay their fair share of taxes.
Looks to me as though only Republicans DON'T want to pay their fair share.
Why should the hotel maid where Romney sleeps pay a higher tax rate than he does?
Eh?
Brianb, I am beginning to understand you. Your lack of understanding says volumes and explains a lot of your posts. There is not much sense in holding an economic conversation someone that does not know how US debt is priced.
POLITICO-George Washington University Battleground Poll with middle-class families, which comprise about 54 percent of the total American electorate and usually split in their vote behavior between Republicans and Democrats, Romney holds a 14-point advantage (55 percent to 41 percent). Middle-class families are more inclined to believe the country is on the wrong track (34 percent right direction, 62 percent wrong track), are more likely to hold an unfavorable view of Obama (48 percent favorable, 51 percent unfavorable), and hold a more favorable view of Romney (51 percent favorable, 44 percent unfavorable) and Paul Ryan (46 percent favorable, 35 percent unfavorable) than the overall electorate. These middle-class families also hold a majority disapproval rating on the job Obama is doing as president (45 percent approve, 54 percent disapprove), and turn even more negative toward Obama on specific areas; the economy 56 percent disapprove; spending 61 percent disapprove; taxes, 53 percent disapprove; Medicare 48 percent disapprove; and even foreign policy 50 percent disapprove.
I sure like to read all the comments and watch as the GOP wanks get it handed to them every single time. Why they even bother is beyond belief. Why subject yourself to the truth when you don't have any?
If that's all it means, then no. But I don't think that's what Anjisan means. I think he/she means spending the money on things that will help others, create jobs, and ultimately create real wealth. He means the rich don't miss it, and everyone else does better. History has shown us this, as he rightly points out. This is not a fantasy. This is historical fact.
This is a strawman that NOBODY says, and it goes directly to MY point, which is that decisions about what to spend money on should always lead discussions about how much money to spend. Right now, Republicans are insisting that we do it backwards. If ever there was a stupid idea, for example, it is to forever spend 4 percent of GDP on defense, just because that's the way it has been at some point in the past, and without any idea of what you would spend the increases on.
When asked what Romney intended to do with the 100,000 more troops that he proposes, an aide said he didn't know, but maybe they could be used to staff aircraft carriers that we would build.
Discounting that this would mean "sailors," not soldiers, that would translate to about 600 percent more aircraft carriers than we have now. What would we do with all those? Romney's staffer didn't say, but war seems to be the most likely outcome.
Build it, and war will come.
Is that supposed to pass for either economic policy or foreign policy?
Or is it just the wet dream of a defense contractor, who by day leaves off the public teat just as much or more than any "welfare" recipient.
Glad you brought that up... I don't believe in Robin Hood. I don't believe in redistributing the money to the lower income people. I still have a whole lot of Republican in me from my Reagan/Bush years, and my repeated readings of "Atlas Shrugged" to know exactly what we need to do after we restore some sanity to our tax codes for the top 10% and top 1% of our populace:
#1 Reign in Governmental Influence Peddling.
How? Outlaw Special Interests and Lobbying. Take the money out of Washington. Set term limits on all elected governmental representatives.
#2 Restore Fiscal Responsibility in Washington, D.C.
$711 Billion dollar defense budget? Really? 41% of the entire planet's expenditures are being spent by the USA? Shut it down. Eisenhower (A decent man and a good Republican) cautioned us on letting our Military-Industrial complex get out of hand. Did we listen? Apparently not, when Congressional Representatives have to fight with our Army Generals to accept modifications to our M1A1 tanks that our Generals don't want. Shut it down.
#3 Return to America First.
America is usually best WHEN we're staying out of other country's issues. Who elected us to be the World's Policemen? The UN? Nope, we nominated, voted for, and elected ourselves to be the World's Cop. Kind of made sense in light of the threat from the Soviet Union. After the collapse of the USSR in 1989, it's just become ridiculous. Let it go already. World War II is over, we're not needed everywhere.
Time to shut these down as well. There's nothing wrong with being an Isolationist nation. It works well for Japan. China is very similar to this. Outside of Cuba and Afghanistan, the USSR was also pretty Isolationist as well. Let's keep our noses out of other people's business.
#4 America First - Part Deux
What to do with the $500 Billion dollars we should shave off of our defense budget? What happens to all those factories, workers, and members of our Armed forces? Military? On our Southern Border. I'm sorry pro-Immigration people, but... Millions upon Millions of Americans came to this country legally and applied for citizenship. Just because you rode a truck to our border and walked across our border in the dead at night and got a job does not make you a citizen. We should send you folks back home and you're welcome to apply for a work visa and the opportunity to become a citizen like everyone else (or everyone else's parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents). At one time, my family came from Norway and we had to work to become citizens. Same should be true for all people wanting to live and work in America. It's the fair thing.
So Military on our borders actually doing what they should be doing: Protecting our borders.
Rest of the factories and workers? Time to rebuild America. Inter-continental High Speed Rail. An actual dedicated effort to finally get off of Oil once and for good. Rebuilding roads, bridges, railways. Restoring our blighted Rust-Belt cities. Restoring our crumbling infrastructure. Plenty of work for everyone. AND, No one should be sitting at home eating Hostess Ding-Dong's and watching Jerry Springer.
If folks are infirmed, too old to work, or have no directly applicable skills? Then they should be providing some services nevertheless: Child care in their home, home computing, whatever.
#5 We need a new Political Party.
Because the current rendition of the Democratic Party and the Republican Party are just terrible. I've said this a few times. I would vote for Jill Stein if I could. But I just can't afford the chance that my one vote away from Obama will end up putting Romney in the White House.
If Romney wins, the continued looting of the rich would continue. Something needs to be done.
Yeah, but one lasting notch that is not on his political belt is the United States of America.
I'm about to post something even toned, but then I remembered, this is First Read...so, to start off:
DEMOCRATS! DERP!
REPUBLICANS! DERP!
TWO PARTIES WITH NUTJOB FANS WHO GET TOLD WHAT TO THINK!
Now, for something not meant for people who vote for only one party...i.e. people who actually think before they vote:
Zelizer, an opinion columnist over at CNN, brought up this rather imortant point in an article - "Many in the (Republican) party have forgotten an essential element of Ronald Reagan's legacy:
his insistence that conservatism had to be packaged as a positive force, as an
argument about how to expand the global rights of individuals and make all
American families more secure. He was determined to appeal to middle- and
working-class Americans who were not satisfied with the Democrats"
He goes on to point out some examples of how the Republicans opened the door for Democrats to have long, legacy runs, in government. He shows that Ronald Reagan used strategies that gave voters an alternative to what was (in my opinion) ludicrous behavior under Carter in the name of doing something 'correct.' Sure, the radicals of the left demonized Ronald Reagan, and the radicals of the right would have kissed *ss of any of the politicians they voted for (and yeah, the roles were reversed under Carter), but the radicals don't win elections, obviously. Republicans need to get back to message that they have a point for the middle class. Right now, Romney made the middle class the enemy.
Is it just me or are the GOP apologists a little thin on the ground today?
Obama/Biden 2012
!1.136= laughable- the first sentence has to denigrate the poster rather than the information; citing the movie "Wall Street" was obviously for the benefit of those with popular culture need to realte to the current crisis: Face it apologists, the supply side, trickle down theory has failed and is bankrupting the United States of America:
FROM: www.alterpolitics.com/politics/ny-times-paul-krugman-supply-side-economics-creates-deficits/
Matt Yglesias contends that “the conservative movement in America doesn’t [actually] care about the budget deficit,” and the proof is in the policies for which they advocate:
You are essentially pointing out that says (or walras) law of supply side equilibrium hold true IN ALL CIRCUMSTANCES. While it may hold true for economies "in equilibrium" it does not hold for real macroeconomic circumstances when too much money(supply) sits on the sidelines without being reinvested (trickle down).
From: Debunking Economics, by Steve Keen:books.google.com/books?id=KdITT4ukfhoC&pg=PA189&lpg=PA189&dq=says+law+debunked&source=bl&ots=LcGT3EYKtF&sig=aDtFK1agXOScdj8Ob75Ueq_jhJ8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0Z9gUKGpOeLt0gHNtIHQBA&sqi=2&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=says%20law%20debunked&f=false
So, while Minsky or Keen would say that Obama/Bernanke's QE (1,2,& soon3) has not introduced new growth, it has at the very least plugged the hole in the dike. Unfortunately, logic would follow that continuing the supply side of tax cuts and no wage/labour controls which Romney/Ryan directly advocate could NEVER dig us out of this hole. The only way out is to move back to a production economy rather than a capital economy.
My apologies to the rest of you for the length of this post, but this issue does not lend itself to soundbites.
Don't have to read my writings, just go to the experts: Keen, Minsky, Krugman, Walras, Says and Marx.
Romney's taxes that every liberal wanted to see show that he has been a very generous man over the last decade giving a large amount of money to help charities. If he is only for the 1% how can you explain the great charity he has done?
By contrast
@ DereK
Well Derek if that were true why is it so many "middle class" are supporting Romney? It isn't even a close race if you were just counting the middle calss vote.
A little comfort from Bob Dylan:
Come gather ’round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You’ll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you is worth savin’
Then you better start swimmin’ or you’ll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin’
Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won’t come again
And don’t speak too soon
For the wheel’s still in spin
And there’s no tellin’ who that it’s namin’
For the loser now will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin’
Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don’t stand in the doorway
Don’t block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There’s a battle outside and it is ragin’
It’ll soon shake your windows and rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin’
Amen
Read more: http://www.bobdylan.com/us/songs/times-they-are-changin#ixzz27Pnj5Rj7
I think your stats are skewed, Logic. I think Romney is trailing the polls in battleground states because he hasn't gotten the message on track about how he will help the middle class. It isn't like Obama and Romney both don't have supporters from all classes of wealth, but if Romney is going to win in battleground states, he's got to get how he's going to help the middle class clearer. I know he's got a strategy, but he's doing a bad job of articulating it right now.
Trump is a straight up dope, but he is right about something. Romney has a lot of money he can spend on adds and that's one way to get the message out. What the Republicans have been (in my opinion, correctly) accused of is being a party of no. That means they have spent more time being 'anti-Obama' than 'pro-solution.' I do blame the nutbags in the Republican Party taking over. But the actual thinking conservatives, I believe, assume everybody 'just happens to know that Republicans will do a better job.' Because they arrogantly think everybody is just so down on Obama. Really? If that is the case, how come polls keep up coming in Obama's favor?
What is not in the headline enough is this race is actually still too close to call. Yes, Obama is in the lead, but not by enough to call this thing done. Romney needs to translate his message, because right now, it is being done for him and the result isn't that good. Ignore the hubris of the Tea Tastic non-thinkers. Get down and do your job explaining the solution so people understand and vote for it.
A little comfort from Bob Dylan
Come gather ’round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You’ll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you is worth savin’
Then you better start swimmin’ or you’ll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin’
Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won’t come again
And don’t speak too soon
For the wheel’s still in spin
And there’s no tellin’ who that it’s namin’
For the loser now will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin’
Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don’t stand in the doorway
Don’t block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There’s a battle outside and it is ragin’
It’ll soon shake your windows and rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin’
Amen
Read more: http://www.bobdylan.com/us/songs/times-they-are-changin#ixzz27Pnj5Rj7
no skip, its just you
The GOP had a real chance to take the executive office, but they have blundered that away by allowing Romney to be the nominee. True conservatives understand that Mitt is not one of them. Likewise for Ryan, who is one of the biggest spenders in Congress.
When you roll out guys like Mitt, you make it clear that you are not interested in real change for the benefit of the people.
Caesar Augustus-
Caesar the not-so-august is doing what is called projection. Romney releases outrageous race-baiting ads with lies about Obama removing work requirements while Republicans pass laws in states they dominate to suppress minority voters. And they accuse other people doing what they're basing the ENTIRE Republican campaign on: stirring up white racial resentment with false claims and suppresing minority votes.
I never had to wait four hours like this woman did in Pennsylvania, just to get a NON driver license. These are extra burdens imposed on people to suppress the vote of millions of legal voters across the country who don't have the type of IDs the Republicans are demanding to guard against the nearly non-existent crime of voter impersonation.
@SactoJD^^^Really? Okay, unless you are talking about Ron Paul, I'd like to point out the following losers who pretend to be conservative who got in the primary race:
Michele Bachman
Rick Santorum
....yeah. Please, at least Romney is actually a conservative when you break down his ideology. The Tea Bag stupids don't even know what the word means.
OHIO IS THE BATTLEGROUND, no one has became president that didn't carry OHIO
except for Kennedy
Could Slick Willy Be Trying To Put Something Over On Us?
Romney has released his 2010 and 2011 returns and obviously was aware at the time that he filed them that he would be hounded to release returns as he's running for president, but I wonder if they're his final returns for those years.
Surely, those returns aren't strictly for show for his campaign?
After all he's only showing percentages on that letter for what HE OWED, nothing about what he actually paid.
For all we know he may have filed them and after they were accepted by the governments, turned right around, amended and submitted them again, thereby getting all those $$$$ back.
After all, he's not called Slick Willy for nothing!
Romney/Ryan = Slip Sliding Down The Polls
Obama/Biden 2012 - Democrat All The Way
Ohio...say...hi... to the eye's of voter's...O-o...
And this from a bipolar echo...hahahaha...I laughed. Thanks
Obama/Biden 2012
LogicReguired
you have seen Romney taxes???? Wow, you must be very special because beside the 2, HE HASN'T RELEASED THEM!and 2011 took him what, 9 months to "create"?
Now you are going to tell me about Romney's notarized statement...well, if I get a letter stating that Tooth Fairy exists, you will accept it as 100% true???
Maybe the people of Ohio are seeing Romney for what he really is? And after the first debate, I believe the people in most swing states will agree......he doesn't have a clue. All anyone had to do was watch 60 minutes last night and see him fumble continiously for answers. He looks more like Richard Nixon everyday.
Well they're not my stats Derek, they come from a Politico / George Washington Univ. Poll. I'm not one to put much weight into poll numbers this election because so many are using 2008 numbers which just aren't realistic this time around. You on the other hand seem to think Polls show Obama in the lead and believe them, but when a Poll shows Obama losing the middle class you decide the stats are skewed.
First of all this strategy has already been tried by Republicans who tried to blame the Democrats saying no when they were in control of congress. It didn't work then and isn't going to work now, the country doesn't want to hear excuses it wants to see results. Democrats had large majorities for two years, larger than any of the republican majorities and still control the Senate plus the White House. When two parties won't agree on anything you can't say because they won't compromise on their beliefs therefore they are the party of no. Why don't Democrats compromise on their beliefs and pass a republican bill to show they aren't the party of no? Truth is compromise is what is needed and neither party is making any attempts so it's a wash at best for democrats but probably more likely hurting them since they have had their chance when they were in power.
This I somewhat agree with. Romney has a hard time getting his message out because the media tend to tell everyone his message in their liberal view not his view. The debates will be a good time for him to look past the media and talk directly to the people about what he is for and not for.
The Tea party has not had any rallies in well over a year, and their biggest complaint and concern is a reckless government going broke, hardly a radical belief. You can call them names and try to categorize them as crazy but the fact is they are not the ones being arrested in cities for violence and vandalism, Occupy Wall Street is taking that path. It is pretty hard for you to sell Americans on how crazy and dangerous the tea party is when they are sitting at home doing nothing and Occupy Wall Street crowd is out breaking windows and stopping people from going to work in their downtown office. This is probably one of the weakest arguments currently being voiced, and trust me when I say it is falling on deaf ears.
Outstanding comments near the top that shows some clear thinking for a change. Super job Ron!!!!
Why is Romney is losing voters? Listen to this website below:
So who is Mitt Romney?/ "When Mitt Romney Came to Town" with creative destruction -The name of the game (Full Version - 28 mins - Good Audio) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad_E8VXm4m0&feature=player_embedded
Just Follow the MONEY TRAIL:
Also be sure to see Romney's interview clip from this morning, where he says if you question Wall Street fairness, you're just envious: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdj_7P2Do5M
The loans were to the company not Bain. First, Bain gains controlling interest in the company, so Bain can basically make all of the executive decisions. Then, it gets the company to borrow money under the guise of helping it out of its immediate cash flow issues so "it (the victim company) can GROW its way out of trouble." Once in control and the company has borrowed all that money, Bain collects huge fees for its services and piles that money away, now completely separate from the company. At the same time, Bain gets the victim company to buy back any stock Bain may have had to purchase to get control,which then severs Bain's relationship just before the victim company falls into default on the loans. Remember that Romney was the CEO until 2002 (according to an employee in S.E.C.) and not until 1999 as Romney tells the story. A liar once again, which Romney considers real transparency. So just ask yourself, what is he hiding and why has he just shown 1 full tax report and 1summary report when all the past candidates including Obama have shown 10 to 20 reports? Romney even required 10 tax reports from Ryan, but considers himself above all others with requiring 2 tax reports. What's he hiding folks?
Finally, based on the specific circumstances, the FDIC might have to cover some of the losses. But this depends on the loan sources and whether the losses would or do cause the bank(s) to fail.
Vote straight Dem.!!!!!
@An Independent Thinker
Nicely done!
I wonder if Romney will be investigated after the elections when loses. I know Bain is being investigated right now as we speak. I watched the videos, scary. He has no conscious and that in its self is dangerous.
I wouldn't trust the self-serving [CENSORED] to pick up "STUFF" after my dog much be elected as president.
Vote straight Dem.!!!!! Vote straight Dem.!!!!! Vote straight Dem.!!!!!
Romney/Ryan - Slip Sliding In The Polls
Obama/Biden - 2012 Democrat All The Way
I sure miss Bush, but only because he was such great joke material.
As for Romney, he is a joke, no material needed!
Romney/Ryan - Slip Sliding In The Polls
Obama/Biden - 2012 Democrat All The Way
Hillbilly-genius
That statistic is only good since 1964. In 1960, Ohio voted for Nixon a republican, and Kennedy, a democrat won.
There are a number of scenarios in which Romney wins without Ohio.
Houston
Rassmussen is using an average of 2008 & 2004. Gallup is doing the same thing. The majority of polls today are using 2008 as a base with adjustments. Some are adjusting the partisans up and down depending on either what that think will happen or via surveys to guage what will happen.
The actual mix uses will not be determined by polling companies until one or 2 weeks before election day. This is why you see a "tightening" of the race at that point because all the polling companies suddenly start using the same partisan, racial, gender, and age mix.
I've been tracking what the polling companies which verifies that of the half that are divulging the partisan mix they are following exactly as I said. Most of those publishing the partisan mix are adding to the democrats and subtracting from the republicans. There are some real outliers that poll almost no independents too.
The biggest problem right now is that the published polls are all over the board in accuracy. In the past week a Democrat party Internal poll on Pennsylvania was leaked. It showed that Obama was up only 1 point in PA. If you really have been following the polls, you know that the polls range from about a 6 - 12 point lead by Obama. The GOP in response polled Pennsylvania and also found that Obama was up by only 1 point. The furthest poll away from the internal poll, Rasmussen showing a 12 point lead by Obama.
Watch and see where the candidates are spending the time and the commercials. That will give you a clue to what the internal polls are saying. If you see a sudden interest in Pennsylvania by both candidates, you will know that the leaked internal polls are true.
Here is something to think about - The John Stewart show has received more Emmey's than any other show in its category . What does he do on a daily basis ? He criticizes politicians - Mostly Romney . As well, so does Letterman . Both shows are very popular among main stream Americans . So the question is -Why are these programs so popular ? I dont need any polls to tell me who is in the lead . Nobody wants to see some rich white guy ,who only appears to like other rich white guys , be the leader of the free world .
I Know one thing about Romney -I work as a carpenter and the entire construction industry has been devastated by republicans . He doesn't give a crap about me or my family .
A friend in Sacramento with a penchant for conspiracy theories sent me this text message. Sometimes, his ideas are unbelievable. But others times, his "theories" begin to make sense.
-------------------------------------
As a janitor and food server for high-class clientele, I can't help but hear a lot of joking and bragging from the wealthy customers we serve.
So the GOP wants to profit from making wars, but they don't want to pay for them. They want the Democrats and Independents to pay for their planned wars, with their money and their lives.
After we're killed off, I've overheard some of the wealthy right-wingers in these posh parties joke around in their country club talk, that they'll be the only ones left to claim all of America's land and its resources for themselves, once they finally get rid of people like us and make a profit while they're at it.
And the way to do it, is BY STARTING and MAINTAINING HUGE WARS. And what better wars than to have Christians and Moslems at each others throats, while they take control of the war-torn region's oil, gold ore mines, uranium, rare earths, and other precious raw materials?
Why Do Republicans Like War?
General Wesley Clark answers this question in this video, since he was an insider witness that these GOP wars in the Middle East were planned in advance, in the highest of offices in Washington DC and the Pentagon
http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/why-do-republicans-like-war/question-2685791/
Seven
I'm in the construction design. The problem isn't republican polices.
It is policies enacted by team Obama,
1) banks cannot approve a loan unless the applicant, whether individual or business, can pass 1100 pages of qualifications as written by Dodd-Frank. Frank & Dodd are democrats, not republicans. I have a lot of contacts in small business, they cannot get past the 1000 pages whether they are in good shape or bad shape.
2) Nobody is going to seriously expand unless they know the cost of the ACA. I'm hearing 40-50% increases in premiums in for 2014. That will take business from a 1.6 x wage for benefits to 1.9x the wage to determine benefit costs. That is pure cost without any improvement on a product. Because foreign competition doesn't have the same increase, they will have to absorb it through laying off people and demanding more productivity from the remaining employees. The ACA is a Democrat law, not a republican law.
3) The 2008 crash was about the artificial increase in home values crashing. The loss of perceived value made the banks insolvent. One must understand why the housing value became so distorted.
That comes from a huge demand (free market - scarcity means price goes up). What was driving the demand was congressional polices starting in 1997 trying to get more homes into lower income peoples hands. To get this, congress over the years kept lowering acceptable closing costs, downpayments for homes, credit rating required, and income requirements to qualify for loans. When this proved not enough to get homes into everyones hands, they leveraged more by threatening banks with discrimination lawsuits and dropping them from the federal reserve system.
The CRA and almost every revision, was written by the democrats. The republican culpability came in that they compromised with democrats to include the last CRA revision so the republicans would get their partial repeal of Glas-Steagall.
Akron,
Non-partisan, fact-checked substantiation for your claims, please.
What you just explained didn't make sense. You've mixed theory with opinion. The historical timing of your explanation is off. You blame Obama's policies yet you begin in 1997 when Congress was dominated by the GOP.
Plus, I've heard Nobel economists explain the why's and hows of the causes of the Great Recession that has little in common with the partisan explanation you just gave us about ACA and the CRA, of which by the way, are only a couple of factors in what in toto, contributed to this collapse. To try and fit your argument in a narrow frame of reference that it has to be the fault of one party over another is a logical fallacy.
There is much measurable evidence though, that willful negligence and a loose form of Wall Street collusion on the part of banking and speculation conservatives that had other motives in play had much to do with this, along with the Dems and the Independents, and the market influences that also came to bear.
Also, check with the Congressional Record. Don't know where you got your claims but the numbers and who was involved on this record doesn't lie.
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/LegislativeData.php?&n=Record&c=111
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/2/18/nobel_economist_joseph_stiglitz_on_obamas
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/national-affairs/paul-krugman-on-how-to-fix-the-economy-and-why-its-easier-than-you-think-20120502
http://www.habitat.org/lc/TheForum/english/economic/Housing_and_Great_Recession.aspx
Mitt Romney on 60 Minutes: "Well, we do provide care for people who don't have insurance. If someone has a heart attack they don't sit in their apartment and die. We pick them up in an ambulance, and take them to the hospital, and give them care. And different states have different ways of providing for that care."
IMO isn't this exactly what we were trying to fix where people use the Emergency Room as their primary health service provider, which they do? The bill often goes unpaid leaving the hospital no choice but to increase rates and in turn insurance companies increasing your premiums. With insurance at least the health care providers recover 70 or 80 percent of the costs if the patient isn't able to cover their share.
Oh, wait …
Mitt Romney in 2010 on Morning Joe: "Look, it doesn't make a lot of sense for us to have millions and millions of people who have no health insurance and yet who can go to the emergency room and get entirely free care for which they have no responsibility, particularly if they are people who have sufficient means to pay their own way."
Dennis -- Romney changing positions again? Who would of thunk? The guy can't keep his lies straight.
Just to add to your post. Anyone with insurance now has a $1000 premium added into the cost of it to cover those who are uninsured.
Oh God, Dennis, I saw Romney make that remark on 60 Minutes. In a rare moment of media pushback, the interviewer actually responded "but it's alot more expensive to get healthcare in an emergency room, isn't it?"
It sure is. I went to a First Care office once, which is one step down from the emergency room, because I felt dizzy and weak on a weekend. The bill was over $500 (luckily I have insurance through my job.) They gave me gingerale and suggested I make an appointment with my doctor to look into my blood sugar levels. It worked out for me: but if I weren't insured, I probably a) Would have put off seeing a doctor for my symptoms b) gone undiagnosed much longer and c) be paying off medical bills, on a relatively minor illness, for a very long time. Does Romney not know any real people?
Big shocker there Dennis, right? This guy Romney has never met a position he doesn't like, what a reputation to have. How could we ever trust anything he would do as President?
It's ok to change positions, it indicates there's a decision making process going on. It's at least better than Obama, all he ever does is double-down on the same old tired non-working @!$%# policies that have made his presidency a failure rivaling Carter's.
Maybe Mittenman's healthcare plan is to setup free clinics in major cities, no one refused. Of course, only one per city and only staffed by 5 doctors, so the waiting list will be weeks if not months. The truly sick will die before being seen, hence saving costs. Sounds like a very Bain-esque strategy, no?
No American should have to spend their golden years at the mercy of Romney and Ryan, Repubacons are threatening the future of our Social Security, Medicare and our Democracy !!!
Liberal - "it indicates a decision making process is going on." ROFLMAO!! Dude, Mittens has changed his position on nearly EVERY major item since he arrived in Massachusetts with his carpet bag. What this indicates is "I will say ANYTHING to get my narcissist ass in the Oval Office." Wake up and smell the tea leaves, and change your screen name to "IdiotWhoExistsInaBubble."
Dennis, thanks for the quote on the emergency room statement made by Romney on 60 Minutes.
Just heartless.
Liberal..........you obviously like someone who thinks and rethinks a position so many times that he ends up with NO position for anyone to criticize. Romney can always say I was for that but rethinking I am now against what I was for and now can unequivocally say nothing about anything about any of those things I was for or against before I rethought all of them sometime in the past and will again in the future................If you follow me..........?
Romney............king of lies and rethinking.
Romney is trying to convince you that he wants to be the President for 100% of America. That's a nice slogan. However, the facts remain that his budget is more trickle down economics. He clearly wants a top down strategy and there is no way he can do that without taxing the middle class.
It's in everything he says. "47% of people don't pay taxes". You also hear Republicans talking about "broadening the base". This is all code for having the middle class pay more in taxes.
Romney says he'll offer vouchers for Medicare but that you'll have a choice. Well, that's before the elections. Do you think that you'll have that choice after the elections? The party that has always wanted to do away with Medicare says they want to save it? Does that make sense. NO.
So Romney offers a fantasy tax plan (independents looking at it can't get it to work), no plan for health care reform, and a promise not to end Medicare (however his plan of keeping Medicare Advantage makes it insolvent faster).
You decide. I know who I'm voting for.
Critical to who, Mr. Romney. Critical to you and your Boca Raton elites, critical to the 53% Club, or critical to the 47% Club. We can only assume you mean critical to your BRE club. Thus, we can also assume you mean to end Social Security, Medicare, Education, and a whole host of other government programs, as these programs are designed to benefit 'those people', but are not critical to the Boca Raton Elites. I guess we can also kiss Yellowstone and a host of other National Parks goodbye, as we know your Boca Raton Elites would love to divy those Federal lands up to vulture capitalize on the resources.
Yes, it does sound Bain-esque, but with one more fiat. The people that die waiting in line will turn over their pensions to Romney and his key investors.
in the end the truth will prevail!!!
President obama/Biden 2012
Dennis, no wonder people don't trust Mitt Romney. His views change depending on which chair he sits in. Jon Huntsman nailed Mitt Romney when he called him a "well-oiled weather vane." It makes you wonder if Romney simply fails to grasp that he's been taped, or his words printed in newspapers so he just says whatever sounds good on a given day--and hopes no one will notice the contradictions.
Jody -- A very effective AD would be using Romney talking about his "Emergency Room" healthcare "solution".
Pat's right. This guy is heartless.
Romney spoke the truth when he thought only his buddies could hear him. He cares nothing for the 47% - even though he has NO IDEA who they are and what their financial situation. He's proved that. And, I love when asked for specifics about his economic policy he just kept talking tax cuts for everyone. Well, that's certainly going to bring the deficit down. The man has no clue.
His emergency room comment was a clear indication of his intelligence. He doesn't have a clue. Let's see anyone try to get treatment for cancer in an emergency room; let's see them get their well care in an emergency room; let's see them get treatment for their diabetes in an emergency room. He's positively clueless or - he just doesn't give a damn!
Obama/Biden 2012
Some time ago my oldest girl got food poisoning and went to the hospital were she spent the night. She doesn't have ins. her job doesn't supply it and she can't afford it. Her bill was over $8000 which she is slowly paying off. The ACA would have been a great help.
Dennis, thanks for a great post.
The ACA is slowing the costs of health care. The Go Away and Die approach to health care has been solved by President Obama via Obamacare. We will see it take off in 2014, when 30 million people new to healthcare join the rolls via exchanges.
Overlord governors like Walker (WI) are still saying No to the ACA, even after SCOTUS has ruled it (and the Individual Mandate) constitutional.
Guess Scott Walker figures he has a good health plan ~ and so **** everyone else.
So, old man, your girlfriend needs the government to order her to get insurance? Cause, that's all it does.
Dennis, where, exactly, do you suppose people get treated for heart attacks, if not the emergency room? The local Walgreens?
And, sorry Pat, but I do not see that making a factual statement is "heartless". This is not only what happens now- t is what will happen in the the future- unless, of course, you are so far gone you believe that Obamacare will prevent anyone, anywhere, anytime, from having a heart attack.
Never mind- you probably do.
By the way, I am still waiting for a logical explanation of how the Obamacare cuts to Medicare do NOT impact seniors. The reasoning from the left seems to be that they are not impacted because the cuts are not to seniors, but to doctors, hospitals, and other care providers.
So, from whom do seniors get healthcare with these cuts? The mailman?
like I said No Joe. its all emotion and apparently that equates superior knowledge and insight. Romney might have been better off wording 47% statement a bit better but it is true to an extent. I dont exactly a break down of that 47%. I hear that disabled vets and retirees and seniors are put into that group. out of that 47% who doesnt pay taxes and is capable of doing it would be a better assessment. I would like to see the lefts view (or excuses) on that
Eric-913730
Hey eric, the more and more i hear his bull crap 47% to his high end doners, just think the oil companies, the banks are just as dependent on the government as the folks he claimed don't pay taxs and are dependent on the government.
just think
Exxon mobile, chevron, BP, Chase, Citi and every company that gets tax breaks from the government is in that 47% including Romney I'm sure get as a business man he got tax breaks from the government that he dependent on just like the single mother who uses her earned income tax credit then same was all these companies have.
Great posts this morning!
Regarding the Emergency Room statement, Mitt is so clueless. When people use the ER as their primary form of treatment, it leaves those with true emergencies waiting. Trauma doctors need to be ready to treat traumas, not colds. I've been in ER with a loved one who was Life Flighted in. Finding an available ROOM took awhile as they had to clear out those without life-threatening illnesses. Not a pretty picture and I'm sure one that happens often around the country.
no joe, no bo, nj
So, old man, your girlfriend needs the government to order her to get insurance? Cause, that's all it does.
Dennis, where, exactly, do you suppose people get treated for heart attacks, if not the emergency room? The local Walgreens?
And, sorry Pat, but I do not see that making a factual statement is "heartless". This is not only what happens now- t is what will happen in the the future- unless, of course, you are so far gone you believe that Obamacare will prevent anyone, anywhere, anytime, from having a heart attack.
Never mind- you probably do.
By the way, I am still waiting for a logical explanation of how the Obamacare cuts to Medicare do NOT impact seniors. The reasoning from the left seems to be that they are not impacted because the cuts are not to seniors, but to doctors, hospitals, and other care providers.
So, from whom do seniors get healthcare with these cuts? The mailman?
SHUT NO JO.
everybody no jos grand daughter need government to keep her heath care, cause if romney gets rid of Obama care(Romenycare) her grand daughters parents will go broke trying to provide her affordable heath care for per existing conditions.
so No Jo is Just like every body else, DEPENDENT ON GOVERNMENT, SHE JUST HAS HER NOSE SO FAR UP THE GOPS ASS SHE CAN'T SMELL THAT THERE SELLING.
Mitt "Corporations Are People" Romney and Paul "Tea Party Darling" Ryan are the flip-flop-flipping, tag-team purveyors of misinformation, disinformation and false information. Romney & Ryan think they and their right wing multi-millionaire and billionaire money-men can buy the Office of President of the United States and Lyin' Ryan will get to be V.P. But, the American people are too smart for Romney and his purveyors of false information and they say 'No Sale' to quarter-of-a-billion-dollar Romney and his right wing financiers.
If I had for profit insurance it would be around $1,200 every month. That is a house payment!
The best time to go to the ER is late Sunday night because there is no one but drug overdoses there then. Easy in and easy out. I'm too poor to pay for the visits and they know it. If anyone has property, then it will be lost before the first week of treatment.
This is the republicon health care plan. Die young and die fast.
Cesar,
Good try, but no cigar.
The homeless guy pays taxes every time he buys cigarettes or alcohol. It's called an excise tax. Romney pays no such taxes.
The working guy pays 15.3% on his entire income for Medicare and Social Security, even though he may never live long enough to collect one penny. Romney pays none of this tax. His earnings are all investment income, not wages. This is a wage tax.
Retirees without excess income pay no federal income taxes. They do pay excise taxes, sales taxes and property taxes.
So, when you speak of 47% paying no taxes, you are repeating a LIE.
46.4% pay no Federal Income Tax. They pay lots of other taxes though. Most of the 46.4% pay a higher tax rate than Mitt Romney and many of his millionaire buddies.
The 46.4% are not freeloaders. Many are suffering from the Bush Recession with good jobs lost and incomes reduced. Many qualify for Bush era child credit of $1000 per child deducted from the Federal income tax they would have paid.
There is no truthful way for Romney to address the 46.4%. It is simply a distortion of reality produced by righties responding to Occupy Wall Street.
NJNB -- Educate yourself on health care, Medicare and Medicaid. Look up who's up-coding and ripping off the taxpayers. Hospitals and doctors. Then read the following:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/pays-cutting-medicare-costs-under-142300090.html
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/traditional-medicare-could-weakened-under-124700687.html
A race to consolidate and RAISE prices in the health care industry.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/aetna-coventry-and-the-arms-race-in-health-care/2012/08/31/21f622c8-f0ab-11e1-ba17-c7bb037a1d5b_story_1.html
And then there's this REPORT. It seems Obama has the right idea when it comes to making cuts in healthcare.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/07/we-spend-750-billion-on-unnecessary-health-care-two-charts-explain-why/?hpid=z4
Ironically, Romney's part of the 47% who pay NO FEDERAL INCOME TAX. He pays Capital Gains tax at a substantially lower rate. What a victim!
Oh and NJNB -- Please enlighten us all on how Romney and Co. PLAN to LOWER health care costs?
If you read above you'll see his ideas WILL INCREASE costs for everyone.
so if Romney buys alcohol he doesnt pay excise taxes? do you realize you just lied? So your problem is that Romney is rich and you're not.
He already paid taxes on the money he accumulated to make those investments to HAVE capital gains. It's almost like a double tax.
DCIA- if I were interested in Ezra Klein's opinion, I'd seek it out.
That said, you, like the rest of the people on the left, never answered the question. Let me rephrase-
If the federal government cuts the Medicare reimbursements to hospitals, doctors, another healthcare providers- from whence are seniors to get healthcare?
Second question- is it not sophistry to state that the Obamacare Medicare cuts are not to seniors- because they are to healthcare providers? Does that not impact seniors?
Bonus question- how long do you suppose your local dry cleaner would be able to stay in business if the federal government mandated a cut of 46% in the amount charged to customers, bearing in mind that all overhead costs would, necessarily, remain the same?
You really do need to start to think around the talking points. There are some serious, in intended consequences involved with Obamacare.
It's the "Gains" part, the return on his investment, that should be taxed as like any other income. That is "new" money he hasn't paid taxes on.
BTW, can't you make the same argument on any income? i.e. The company I work for was already taxed on the money they paid me so why should I have to pay more taxes on it.
NJNB -- Where and how will seniors come up with the EXTRA thousands of dollars Romney would like to bill to them for using Medicare?
You fail to realize that the private sector rips-off the taxpayer whenever they are given carte blanche to do so.
Really, NJ, your argument is weak. You are failing to look at all data. READ.
So, no answers, eh, DCIA?
I get it.
None of your deflections answered any of my questions, which tells me, you have none. So be it.
By the way, I DO read. Now, I'll give you a little advice.
THINK.
60 minutes didn't air the following Obama quote, anyone wonder why?
"Do we see sometimes us going overboard in our campaign, are there mistakes that are made, areas where there is no doubt that somebody could dispute how we are presenting things? You know, that happens in politics," Obama said
In other words, we lie so what.
NJNB -- You failed to answer MY question. HOW WILL ROMNEY LOWER THE COST OF HEALTH CARE?
how about Removing Obamacare for starters and then try talk of true reform that benefits americans.
The "Empty chair Party" just wants you to die.
I have a daughter who had asthma when she was young. She is all grown up now and has a good job making good money, but she could not get health care because of her "pre-existing" condition. Now she has health care coverage.
Republicons that want to take us back to the bad old days are the real Death Panels.
So Ryan was caught not paying taxes on $61,000 and had to file amendment to his taxes and pay what he owed and a penalty. How can you just overlook 20% of your income....? RYAN THE TAX CHEAT!
As some may have noticed from previous posts, I'm not exceptionally articulate. With that said, I would like to thank, Backhouse, Dennis, Feisty, Pat, Seeking Sanity, Anna Molly, and many others who type so well what I feel but have trouble stating. Just remember, "Libbie" is just another name for Human. >:o):
Much Love n Peace,
Da Pup
>:o):
Star
It was trust income that was not reported. With a trust involved, Ryan has his income taxes done professionally. What this means is he puts everything in an envelope or box that goes to a CPA who assembles the information into a tax return. What happens is that the mail comes in and it is not immediately recognizes what it is and it doesn't get put into the package to go to the CPA.
That also says that the place handling the trust is not his CPA. If the CPA was handling the trust, it would have been reported.
Continuing down the line that he is a tax cheat doesn't cut it Star.
Arrest the Marxist Pig Obama!
what kind of a regieme arrests political opponents?
I believe that would be fascists, but the right doesn't have a problem with that.
Romney is trying to convince you that he wants to be the President for 100% of America. That's a nice slogan. However, the facts remain that his budget is more trickle down economics. He clearly wants a top down strategy and there is no way he can do that without taxing the middle class.
It's in everything he says. "47% of people don't pay taxes". You also hear Republicans talking about "broadening the base". This is all code for having the middle class pay more in taxes.
Romney says he'll offer vouchers for Medicare but that you'll have a choice. Well, that's before the elections. Do you think that you'll have that choice after the elections? The party that has always wanted to do away with Medicare says they want to save it? Does that make sense. NO.
So Romney offers a fantasy tax plan (independents looking at it can't get it to work), no plan for health care reform, and a promise not to end Medicare (however his plan of keeping Medicare Advantage makes it insolvent faster).
You decide. I know who I'm voting for.
What kind of a Marxist bails out banks and car companies? The stockmarket is going great guns and profits are up for the Fortune 500. If Obama is a Marxist, he's a strange variety. The kind that works to save capitalism?
Is that the only thing you can come up with is name calling
poor Amy. care to enlighten us on how a booming stock market equals prosperity? How about QE3 stimulus, why was that a necessity? speaking of guns, why would those go up during such stable times? why are gas prices still through the roof, milk and bread, and every kind of food product?
SailNaked,
You need your anti-psychotics. When all you have is Romney and his lies to defend, it is no wonder you resort to name-calling. It is a very childish way of dealing with adult problems and solutions to those problems. In my childhood, "your momma wears army boots" was a favorite put down. Now, It's the President (who saved our capitalist system) is a Marxist. Really?
No facts, just name calling. How sad.
Caesar (great name!) I will quote from ANJISAN 1963's post above re: your prosperity question (you must have missed it)
“Think about this...
Why is the current tax bracket for Millionaires, Corporate Executives, and other high level Corporate citizens at historical lows WHILE the Capital Gain's tax rate is also at historical lows? Because the people with lots of money control the lobbyists, who control the PAC and Super-PAC money, and (as as side benefit) often have the ear of our elected officials BEFORE the elected official even spends any time listening to any individual citizen.
Think about this too.
Since 1978 average worker salaries have grown by only 5.75% in 2011. Average CEO pay has grown by 725%. That's right. The richest people in our society (Like Mitt Romney) have been jacking up their pay
over the past 35 years, while also lowering their tax rates and the amount of money they put back into the system that allows them to reap this level of wealth.
Not to mention. In order for CEO's to keep giving themselves these outrageous raises every year, they have to prove that they are successful at running their businesses. How do they do that year after year after year? Sometimes they're terribly profitable and that's all that it takes, other times they have lean years and dismiss their workers to ensure they keep their bottom line in the realm to ensure they get all their bonus' for that year (don't worry about the worker, he'll find another job eventually).
Are you all still okay with this level of pillaging? No outrage at the "pigs at the trough"? Does anyone NOT
believe that the 1% are rigging the game, and are responsible for taking the American dream away from the rest of us? Greed and Avarice are sins. When do we as a nation say "Enough is Enough" and actually go back to a tax rate that is progressively tiered to prevent the richest of our citizens from buying our government?
It's not class envy or class warfare, it's actual concern that a very small segment of our country owns a vast amount of our country; AND, through their lobbying groups also own a large percentage of the legislators we believe we voted into office to work for US!
Obama To The American People......
LOWER your standards Settle for my crumbs (tax$ I take from some to buy votes) I'm working on tipping the scales to 51% created Food Stamp Voters! Power is my agenda POWER!
I can't stomach conservative Americans-I say so every day. I have no record. My Foreign policy has caused the slaughter of Americans who made the FATAL mistake of trusting me.
I will use the lowest common denominator to slander & malign 47% of Americans who don't vote for ME!
My DOD failed to get ballots to service men risking their lives overseas. Sorry about that soldiers...You dumb asses vote mostly R anyway so who cares if you VOTE in the 2012 election.
I'm spending millions trying to make it easier for NO ID Mexicans to vote But you service men/women can pound sand (pun intended)
...and what exactly would you say to the 2,800 dead and 100,000 wounded soldiers we suffered in Iraq fighting George Bush's war against terrorism against a country that had no WMD's, no links to Al Queda, and had been effectively "bottle-up" since the Gulf War in 1990?
Would you agree that Bush should take responsibility for all these soldiers wounded and killed in a war that will eventually end up costing us between 2-3 Trillion dollars? What would you say to Bush, regarding his role in this debacle?
Care to compare the Iraq War fiasco with Obama's current military actions during his presidency? To me, it seems like Obama is taking a much more measured, reasonable approach.
Wouldn't you agree? No, of course you wouldn't agree. This is why you're wrong. You've got no ability to self-diagnose your stances. You're merely a Myna Bird for the talking points on Fox and from Rush.
The UN is meeting in New York today. Where is our illustrious leader? Campaigning. Maybe that's a good thing - you can't do damage when you're absent.
Obama is a fraud and voting for him makes you a fool. He's a president who, in his one term as Senator, voted 'Present' most of the time instead of taking a stance.
Romney/Ryan 2012
Liberal...in case you were worried here is the President's schedule for today:
1:05: The President departs the White House en route Joint Base Andrews
1:20: Departs Joint Base Andrews
2:15: Arrives New York City
4:10: The President and First Lady tape an appearance on “The View” (will air on Tuesday, Sept 25 at 11:0 AM ET)
8:20: The President and First Lady attend a reception for visiting Heads of State and Government, Waldorf Astoria
Gingerbread,
Sounds to me like a nice dinner after a hard day campaigning... What other reason would Obama be on "The View" except for a campaign purpose, right?
I live in Ohio and Romney's got my vote as well as about 90% of the people I know.
Romney/Ryan 2012
Don't act stupid...of course it is campaigning, he's running for his second term and its just another way to reach people. So you seriously expect him to stay in the WH all day every day?
He is the President of the United States and the leader of the Free World, the most powerful man in the world and his job travels with him no matter where he goes. And while that fact may frost your sensibilities,get used to it as he'll be there for four more years.
"I live in Ohio and Romney's got my vote as well as about 90% of the people I know."
Have you ever heard the line that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? We tried "more business in government and less government in business" three times - Hoover, Reagan/Bush, and Bush, Jr. All three times we saw the upper class get a big boost in wealth, the middle class get into desperate straights, and finally, an economic collapse.
Why can't people learn from history? This approach does not work. Remember - all three of those collapses came from positions of strength. A collapse from our current weak recovery would be devestating.
I'll be voting for Romney as well. The 60 minutes interview with Obama kinda sealed the deal for me. Romney all the way.
What is this aversion to trickle down economics? What's Obama's policy, trickle up economics? When was the last time you saw something trickle up? Maybe for his second term, Obama and the democrats will repeal the law of gravity.
Gingerbread: Thanks for Obama's schedule. I don't know how the man does it. Flying on Air Force One and basking in the glow of his sycophants. By the way, what's he doing in the morning?
its because he is so well connected to the 'people'. Thats all he has done, campaign. Like i said, any day now Obama is going to start his touting his unprecendented and stellar Presidential record. World Peace should be breaking any moment now. Peace Prize and all.
He is right.
Boobi.................check with the WH
I guess you don't know many people, or are all of the people you know related to you by birth or marriage?
Upset in Ohio's support for Romney reminds me of the line from the Wizard of Oz where he gets busted by Toto the Dog and says, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, I am the Great and Magnificent Oz." since that is the only way I can see a person voting for a Romney/Ryan ticket. He/she is willing to go for the Romney/Ryan "smoke and mirrors plan for American prosperity", better known as "Trickle Down on Steroids" versus the balanced approach of spending reductions coupled with increasing tax revenues by repealing the Bush era tax cuts on earned income above $200,000 for those filing as single and $250,000 for those filing as married; and passing of the President's Jobs Bill presented to Congress in September 2011; ONE YEAR AGO.
After all, we all know that republicans see President Obama as the embodiment of the "Wicked Witch of the West", that is when he's not busy being any one of the following: a Muslim, a Marxist, a Communist, a Socailist, a Food Stamp President, a Kenyan, un-American, or an Israel hating Palestinian loving terrorist.
Glad that 90% of all the people upset knows will be voting the way he/she wants and makes him/her feel so much better. Too bad for upset that "90% of the people I know" equates to 3 people. LOL
SayitaintSo- Upset has NO idea how 90% of his/her friends are voting. Plus 90% of 5 is a little over 4 people!
I have a sister who lives outside Cincinnati and she is saying that so many people she knows are NOT voting Republican this year. But again, I have no idea how many "so many" represents!
Obama/Biden 2012
Trickle down DOES NOT WORK!! So where are all the jobs from the 1% who have been benefiting from the Bush Tax cuts for the past 12 years? Exactly! It does not work!! Not to mention the Obstuctionists Rebups in charge failing to pass a jobs bill for our vets .....just disgusting!! The Party of NO strikes again!!
It's not liberals in a bubble--it's those millionaires who can charge off dancing horses a $77,000+ per year on their taxes--or think nothing of a $10,000 bet.
Who's in a bubble there?
Obama felt it was more important for him to tape a session for The View. Obama is sending Hillary Clinton to clean up his mess with the members of the United Nations. Which makes sense because Hillary is more qualified to be president then he was. Besides the answer to every question ask of Obama is the same, it is the republicans fault. Ah blame and excuses, the more this country collapses the more Obama stays the same.
Obama To Ohio ~ I'm coming after your coal. Your electric bills will skyrocket! the EPA will take you DOWN by the time I'm done with U Hicks!
Thank God I have the ENTIRE MSM running my campaign. All I have to do is stick to my campaign OF HATE/DIVERSION/DIVISION/RACISTS (against whites) / & BIGOTS (who despise Christians)
Black aginst white
Old against young
Gay against straight
Rich against poor
Prolifers against pro choice
MUSLIMS against Christians on and on it goes..... It proves his voters really are the Occupy Wall Street crowd.
Obama =
F**K The Middle East ~ Don't they know I'm a ROCK STAR?
Obama = Hey all you Americans who were slaughtered I guess you're SOL ~ Don't you "little" people know I've got Money to raise.
One more Term and I'll flip that 47% to 51% in 8 months.
Then I wont have to bother with all you BS conservatives! The FIX will be in 4 Ever...
Plus I'll get 4 more years of Exotic Vacations-AF One - Designer Clothes for Michelle-Limos ~ Partying with all the "COOL" people! I can almost taste another GRAVY TRAIN term.......after all I have ZERO accountability~ & Mitt Romney is Rich Vote 4 ME! You'll get stuff free!
I'm very sorry to hear about that Ohio. I hope you are well prepared. Putting Romney in office will surely lead us all down the path where we'll actually be nostalgic for 2012 four years from now.
Love2troops?
I think you may want to remodulate your message. You're coming across as the creepy, street-corner preacher who's thumping his chest and screaming at every passerby that, "The Alien Overlords are coming to suck your brains out of your ears and impregnate all our women with their weird alien offspring". No one listens to the street preacher, we just swerve a bit and give them a wider berth.
Same is true with the chimp at the zoo who flings his feces at the general public just to see what sticks. It's gross and we're not getting the chimp's real message which is "I'm bored".
Are you bored, Love2troops? I'm sorry to hear that. Please stop flinging poop. And don't lie to us. We know poop when we see it.
Good Afternoon Seeking... I live in the Cincinnati area and wold be very surprised if this area goes for President Obama... This area is way too red ( I can hope though)... I live in northern Ky...across the river and feel like my vote won't count for much(although I WILL vote!)
4 more for 44
love2troops #4.16
You need to be a little clearer.
It sounds like you are describing republicans and you hurt my feelings.
Anji,
It's clear that having Obama in office these past few years have proven that we do need someone else in the White House... At least with Romney we get something more than a "community organizer".
Shields and Brooks on PBS...
David Brooks; I never thought the -- the issue that cut was the, he's hiding something. And that is the leitmotif of the Romney campaign: He is hiding something, whether it is his plans, which he is not really making a case for, or his personality, which is hiding behind a faux persona. And so that cut.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec12/shieldsbrooks_09-21.html
Shields and Brooks are imposters and left wing nuts who hate anything out of the Republican party... Who can stand to hear those bozo's... They have their heads so far up obamas A$$ they can't see straight let alone be objective...
The only kind of journalism you get with them is extreme left and biased...LOL
Dangerfield, I think he is hiding the fact that he really did not reside in MA when he ran for office there and voted in that election - can you say voter fraud? Yep, that would be Mitt and Ann!
Dangerfield - I respect your posts, which were pretty much middle of the road, however in the last past week you are beginning to show your inclination to the left more and more. That is ok as long as you can understand that siting information form left media, does not make it facts.
As far as the polls are concern NBC will continue to show polls that favor President Obama, however let it be know that the number one Pollster out their is still Rasmussen and as of yesterday Obama was wining by only one 47% to 46%. This still a close race by all views.
Get ready for a week of big surprises folks.
Does any one know wha Feisty got supended? I hope is only temporarily for two reasons, freedom of speech and the visibility that we all get to how other people think, wrong or right.
djames -- The biggest problem in the Republican Party is that it no longer welcomes moderates. What kind of Party dictates everyone tow the line? That's rigid and tyrannical.
We've been hearing about this for 6 weeks, yet week after week, the surprise is the Romney campaign implodes. Guess what, the Romney campaign imploding is no longer a big surprise, it is the 'new' norm.
djames1277
Media Bias (n.) The first argument a conservative reaches for when (s)he doesn't see or hear what (s)he wants to see or hear.
Unfortunately the right has backed itself into a corner of crazy and no one with their sanity intact can report anything good about them. Sorry
David Brooks a "Left wing nut"?
Posting two opposing, yet respectful viewpoints from the most respected television news program is "Leaning left"?
It is a sad situation when folks can only tolerate the most extreme viewpoints and any reasonable and reasoned opinions are dismissed or denigrated.
Maybe the "Arthur Carlson for President" thing was too subtle?
ask the Banned Harley Chic person. I think enough people complained in NBC Politcs thread that Tyler did something. although a few us got suspended as a result of mass punishment. Harley was banned and Bev and Feisty got 1 week suspensions. Me, Mickey and another got one day for violating the COH.
hey Dangerfield there hasnt been a time in politcs where it has been clean and fair and unemotional. I would go on a limb and say you are likely to vote Obama although displeased with his performance. Romney is too weak in your view. Even if I am wrong in my assessment it is hard to take a true down the middle road. I see my self right leaning on certain aspects of politics, left with others. I just personally haven't seen Obama do one significant positive thing for the economy or the people. I am more willing to give Romney the opportunity to turn the economy around and WORK with congress. Great Oration doesnt equal great governance
Welcome back...
i was back last week.
I've never had the honor of being suspended...
Politics or "Show Business for ugly people", is a dirty business, and always has been.
Reading "Burr" by Gore Vidal, again. It skewers the myth of the founding fathers through the eyes of the man who killed Alexander Hamilton, and was himself but a whisker away from the Presidency.
I am not crazy about either candidate, nor do I demonize either candidate. In NY, a state that is not a "battleground, tossup", etc., the outcome is preordained and my vote is academic. Criticizing the Romney campaign, or sharing the opinion that he is not entirely authentic and that this has hurt his candidacy is shared by more than a few pundits/columnists on the right as well as the left. The fact that the President has been a disappointment in general and to many of his individual constituencies in particular, is shared by more than a few pundits/columnists on the left as well as the right.
Criticizing Governor Romney's campaign or the President's record, or defending either, doesn't mean I endorse or oppose either man. I think both men are good, but flawed individuals who bring their own positives and negatives to the table. That said, the Nation would survive the next 4 years with either one in the exec's chair, as opposed to the end of the world scenarios laid out here by the two opposing teams.
I agree with Sheilds AND Brooks, in that I am an interested observer who is skeptical of any and all true believers and the water the carry for their standard bearer,,,
I never said i was civil, merely the opposite and equal reaction. although with my nose in a corner, i have to re-evaluate my approach.
I never said you did, I took a wild guess based upon your posts or how i look into them. I merely gave an opinion, assessment and acknowledge i could be wrong.
its the level survival in my opinion. NOthing is black and white. There is no true middle ground but there is compromise which is currently lacking.
djames
David Brooks is a leading conservative thinker. He is no liberal. He is no leftie.
That you think he is one makes me wonder if you spend all your time in Limbaugh Land or Romney World or Fox Fantasyland.
Romney has run a campaign of LIES and the TRUTH will catch up to him.
This is what upsets true Conservatives. They have an argument to make and all Romney does is LIE.
Politico Poll has Romney up by 14+ points with Middle class families.. Obama is going to have a hard time changing public perception of his inept administration...
The economy and jobs are wearing on the American people and no rhetoric from the left is going to change that...
Numbers don't, lie Politicians do... Obama isn't going to pull more than 46% come election day... Read um and weep...
"Middle class" that make over $200,000/yr or the REAL middle class? Care to cite your source?
djames1277 - are you talking about the new middle class families, the ones that make over $200,000 per year? Kind of changing the middle class wages just like George Sr did and how did that work out for him? Not very well at all. Actually the middle class statement made us a lot angrier than the 47%. We work over 40 hours each and every week, always have, always thought we were middle class, but the gop keeps raising the amount you have to make in order to be middle class. And that is just insulting! As for real working/middle class families - I don't see any of us flocking to Mitt's corner.
Middle class... 50k and up to 2 Million numb nuts... Those are the people who are hard workers who achieve their dreams... not the people who constantly have their hand out for scraps like the libs... These are the people who provide for all American's through their "over" taxing...
Its up on Politico.com..
The fact is Obama is out of his league and has no business being president... what a FRAUD!
This country is sooooo much better off than it was with that idiot George W. Had we not gotten a republican congress, we would've been a lot better off. We need to fire everyone in Congress and start new. And to think we actually pay them to play their political games. If we can get rid some of those idiots and re-elect Obama, four years from now we'll all be better off.
"no rhetoric from the left is going to change that..."
And the right repeating the same lines ad nauseam won't change anything, either!
Cite your source, or can't you take personal responsibility? You made the claim, back it up with a direct link or shut the hell up.
Well then Politico............Romney can then sit back and quit going out on money raising trips and just sit back and win the election with all of those "middle class" voters behind him...........so that leaves only the 47%ers who will be left with their whining and scofflaw tactics in getting welfare, food stamps, unemployment, Social Security, Medicaid, emergency room care, insurance, heat and clothing in the coming fall/winter left to vote for Obama............He is truly blessed to be so far out ahead.
Detroit - Storm , I believe he did, why don't you look yourself and calling out if he is wrong.
you are about as stupid as a box of rocks, the Republicans, which I once was, thought they could co-opt hate, the tea-party, christian Taliban, bigots etc. and control them but they couldn't they have become the party of hate. Romney talking about the fighting season what a joke, he the gutless coward that hid out in the Ritz in Paris with his draft deferments. As for Ryan, I am from Wisconsin and he is a joke here and could never win a state wide office, that is why you are so stupid, former Republicans, before it became the party of hate, have told me they just can't vote for Romeny. People my age in their 50s, all make 6 figures, all pay taxes, find the current Republican Party a joke. Newt and Paul Ryan the intellectual minds of the party, what a joke as is the Republican Party
So what!! This is a sub-group sampling of the poll. The overall poll shows Obama in the lead over Romney.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/81582.html
Red Dev..............notice how they omit the little important details?
GBM - they do love to omit little facts. Much like the 54% of the middle class, who fail to recognize that their beloved EIC credits for their 2.4 children are on the chopping block under Romney, or their mortgage deductions for their cherished McMansions could be erased faster than an etch-a-sketch drawing. Since those deductions aren't important to the Boca Raton Elites, Romney would have no qualms in eliminating them to pay for tax cuts that favor the BRE. Let's see how quickly those middle-class would be driven into poverty without their delicious deductions, or as Romney calls them, entitlements.
But Romney said he'd stop taxing your SAVINGS, you know that money you put into the bank that they currently pay you less than 1% interest on. How many middle class families have savings large enough to offset the amount of tax deduction they will lose from elimination of the mortgage deduction, EIC, school loan(s) deduction.
Hey, he also said that he would eliminate all Capital Gains taxes for people making less than $200K/yr. Gee Willard, thanks. We are so grateful that you are willing to let us "little folk" keep our Capital Gains income. Now, how many of you making less that $200K/yr have Capital Gains income versus the number of people out there who have home mortgages, kids in college, kids period, etc.
And the Romney supporters wonder why the opposition says that their candidate is "OUT OF TOUCH"?
Odd, my savings has never been taxed. Unless of course Romney is promising to stop taxing my paycheck. Because that is were my savings comes from.
Wow, that is big of him. I think I'll go stimulate the economy in anticipation of the Romney plan, and splurge all that money I saved in taxes on the $3.45 I earned off my savings account this year. My nearest calculation is I have .12 cents to 'splurge'. Woo Hoo - happy times I tell ya, happy times.
Oops, I just realized I shouldn't splurge away that .12 cents - so I'll do the responsible thing and create a job. Anyone out there willing to work a year for .12 cents?
Capital gains? What is that? The lower 50% of Americans own 0.5% of the stocks and bonds. The top 10% of Americans own over 90% of the stocks and bonds. Playing the stock market is only for those with disposable income.
djames1
The fact is Obama is out of his league and has no business being president... what a FRAUD!277
And Romney does?
lets see he changed his stance on the following.
Heath care policy, President Obama followed his exact plan for national health care as romney did as governor of Mass. now he is gainst it, because the GOP told him to.
he was for a womens right to choose, but now he is against it because the GOP told him to
he was for letting detroit die, but now we miss understood him, because the people in michigan have turned against him for being part of the problem that almost cause detroit to die
and now this goof is going to let israel back him into a war with iran, a war that may cause WWIII, because isreal has told him to.
go ahead and vote for that turn coat goof but i hope you are ready for deficets 3 times as bad as now and a war with iran no one will win.
can this guy do any thing on his with out being told to.
Romney has no economic plan to help the middle class. He only wants to help the rich because he believes they are the only ones capable of creating jobs. Romney is just another self-satisfied rich guy who cannot believe that anyone in the middle class is capable of creating a job.
If you have a CRAP program for the country, it does not matter how much money you spend promoting yourself.
"Romney has a sterling record at Bain Capital and is qualified to be President" -- Bill Clinton
"qualified" is not the same thing as "should" or "will be"
A sterling record of looking out for himself and Bain. Bain's track record was the same as an investor using 'Stock Indexing' or even just flipping a coin on which company to invest in. By Wall Street standards Bain was considered a sleazy operation right up there with Michael Milkin's Junk Bond group and others.
Romney is a billion times more qualified than Obama... Slick Willy understand success and knows that Romney is a good candidate and can do the job.... LOL YEAH, A thousand times better than this shill we currently have.... HAHAHA
Cory Booker said the same thing about Bain and Romney... HAHAHA Tards don't get is as usual.....
so tell us djames, which re-reg are you? even with identical talking points, you minions have writing patterns that, although subtle, vary from idiot to idiot...
clinton stated that romney has a good record as a businessman. He does, it's just not the type of record that is needed to be president.
Hell, at least Romney has been a businessman. Obama hasn't really done anything. Ever. He's never ran a business, barely showed up as a Senator, he's loves the talk shows and spends a LOT of time there, and plays more golf than any other prez we've ever had. So far Obama's record and work ethic kinda sucks.
Jen.......he now has four years of experience as President, can Romney match that????????????
Gingerbread Mamma... Obama is the worse president of our lifetime... what did he do??? nothing! Oh, he did evolve and change his mind about homosexuals... which we know he had that opinion all along.. He is a very radical Muslim with Marxist views... that much we know!
Did he get us out of the economic mess were in??? NO.. had he cut the deficit in half like he promised we wouldn't be having this conversation right now... we would be in an economic boom!! but what did he do??? Just spend 6 Trillion like it was going out of style... one word for him -- INCOMPETENT
As anyone who bothers to look at history knows, businessmen make horrible presidents. The shining example of this was George W. Bush; another was Warren Harding and a third Herbert Hoover. All are ranked in the bottom on the list of successful Presidents. Runing a business isn't even close to the same thing as being President.
The incompetence of Romney and Ryan on the campaign trail show they have no business in politics.
Obama/Biden 2012
Romney doesn't have a billion qualification. He only has 250 million what he would consider "qualifications". LOL
Bill Clinton Also said The Republican caused this mess, and now asks to take control Again. WOW what a bunch of losers. I miss the GOP of 20 years ago. As long as the Tea's are feeding on the brain cells of my former party, they should & will loose. People are not as dumb as those "baggers" think.
Obama is THE only choice.
Bush had business experience. His company could not find oil in Texas.
Cheny had business experience. Halliburton started selling nuclear technology including centrifuges to Iran in 1998, when he was CEO.
Together they gave us $4.00 a gallon gas and the Great Recession.
Bill Clinton also said that NO president, not even he himself could have gotten the economy turned around in 4 yrs after the mess Pres. Obama was dealt. Did any of you RWNJ's listen to Clinton's speach? He's not the type of guy that would get up there are tout something that he didn't believe in. Romney may be a businessman but you can't run the country like a business....it just doesn't work that way. I don't want this country being run by rich, entitled white men that only think their opinion and lifestyles matter!!
Vote straight Democrate and let's get a Congress that will move our country forward!
Obama/Biden 2012
miklkit - and George Bush put his cable television company into bankruptcy yet Republicans thought he would be a GREAT President!
Obama/Biden 2012
Microsoft, HP skirted taxes via offshore units: U.S. Senate panel
By Kim Dixon
WASHINGTON | Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:12pm EDT
(Reuters) - Microsoft Corp and Hewlett-Packard Co pushed back against claims by a U.S. Senate panel on Thursday that they used offshore units and loopholes to shield billions of dollars in profits from U.S. taxes.
Calling tax avoidance rampant in the technology sector, the Senate's Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations said tech companies used intellectual property, royalties and license fees in overseas tax havens to skirt taxes.
The panel subpoenaed internal documents from the companies and interviewed Microsoft and HP officials to compile its report, which uses the companies as case studies.
"The tax practices and gimmicks range from egregious to dubious validity," Democratic Senator Carl Levin, chairman of the panel, said at a news conference.
Officials at HP and Microsoft strongly denied any wrongdoing, noted tax officials had not objected to the structures and said there were valid reasons for tax planning.
Senator Tom Coburn, the top Republican on the panel, signed onto the new report but blamed Congress.
"Tax avoidance is not illegal. Congress has created this situation," Coburn said, criticizing the complex tax code and the 35 percent corporate tax rate, among of the world's highest, though few companies pay that statutory rate.
The subcommittee said that from 2009 to 2011, Microsoft shifted $21 billion offshore, almost half its U.S. retail sales revenue, saving up to $4.5 billion in taxes on goods sold in the United States.
This was accomplished, the report said, by aggressive transfer pricing, where companies value intra-company movement of assets. Corporate units must use a fair market price to value transfers, but critics say they are manipulated to minimize tax.
The report also said the software giant shifts royalty revenue to units in low-tax nations, such as Singapore and Ireland, avoiding billions of dollars of U.S. tax.
Levin said one Microsoft Singapore unit was legally headquartered in Bermuda and had no employees. Levin asked Microsoft's tax vice president, William Sample, if the reason was to cut its tax bill. "Yes, that is correct," Sample said.
Sample also said several offshore units employ hundreds of workers, which Levin noted was a tiny fraction of its workforce.
IRS CITES CHALLENGE
Internal Revenue Service officials are not allowed to comment on specific taxpayers, but Chief Counsel William Wilkins said enforcing transfer pricing law "has been the IRS's most significant international enforcement challenge."
U.S. companies have at least $1.5 trillion in profits sitting offshore. Most say they are keeping them there to avoid U.S. tax. Of the top 10 companies with the biggest offshore cash balances, five are in the technology sector.
"The high-tech industry is probably the No. 1 user of these offshore entities to transfer intellectual property," Levin said.
The panel said Hewlett-Packard funded U.S. operations with a stream of intra-company loans, using an exception in the law for short-term loans, to avoid billions of dollars in taxes.
Levin said more than 90 percent of HP's cash was sitting offshore, as opposed to about 65 percent of revenue coming from countries outside the United States.
An HP spokesman said in a statement that the hearing was a politically motivated attack.
"We are disappointed to see what appears to be a politically motivated attack on one of America's largest employers," HP spokesman Michael Thacker said before the hearing.
Lester Ezrati, an HP tax vice president, said HP used cash faster in the United States for valid reasons including that certain payments like pensions must be made with U.S. cash.
"HP has an overall strategy to minimize expenses and that is what generates where the cash is located," and "one of those expenses is taxes," Ezrati said.
REPATRIATED PROFITS TAXABLE
Under tax law, foreign profits are subject to U.S. tax when they are "repatriated," or brought into the United States, usually in the form of a dividend.
One internal document released by the panel suggested that HP routinely brought money into the U.S. without paying U.S. tax. An HP presentation noted that "without planning, repatriation of foreign earnings could lead to tax payments."
Loans by the foreign units to a related U.S. entity are considered a dividend for tax purposes but there is an exception for loans that are repaid within 30 days, according to the committee's tax experts.
HP set up a complicated series of short-term loans starting in 2008 to these businesses that were continuous without gaps, to get around that provision, the panel found.
Big companies have lobbied for a tax holiday to let them bring offshore profits into the United States at a reduced tax rate, arguing that the profits are trapped offshore. That effort has fallen flat amid reports suggesting such a program would cost the government significant revenue and not produce U.S. jobs.
The report on transfer pricing "mocks the notion that profits of U.S. multinationals are 'locked-up' or 'trapped' offshore," Levin said.
The subcommittee also criticized accounting giant Ernst & Young for blessing HP's practices.
Ernst & Young partner Beth Carr said that the firm stands firmly behind its auditing for HP.
(Additional reporting by Lynnley Browning; Editing by Kevin Drawbaugh and Alden Bentley)
This is the reason we need to see Romney's returns. Did he get the tax amnesty in 2009.
Well...I'm from NE Ohio, and Romney/Ryan can forget about being my BFF. I'm not stupid enough to vote for Romney. He would be the absolute worst thing for this country, and for the world for that matter. He has no clue about how a country is run, let alone about foreign policy. He is in fact the "Etch-a-Sketch" candidate...changing his mind on everything as he goes...thinking the people are stupid enough in this country to fall for that crap. Yea sure...let's give more tax breaks to the rich and more taxes to the poor and middle class. That would solve everything, wouldn't it? The trickle down affect would get to us eventually....just as it has during other Republican presidential terms. Oh...but it didn't work then...and it won't work now. But the rich did get richer...and the poor did get poorer. And let's dismantle Medicare and Social Security...even though I've been contributing to both for 46 years. And YES, I am in the 47% right now....and proud of it. I pay taxes...I don't receive public assistance, but I do get my social security check monthly or would prefer to continue with that! Obama is a man for the people....100% of the people. Not 53% like Romney. BFF ...stand for "Be Friggin' Foolish" and vote for Romney. I'll pass. I'm not that foolish.
Smarti....may I suggest you consider what Romney/Ryan plan for Social Security & Medicare really does and not listen to the "talking points" from the bias leftwing media...
The Romney/Ryan plan will not impact you unless you are under 55...
Second...do you realize that Medicare will be bankrupt in 2016 and based on future obligations, Social Security is currently bankrupt....
By staying with Obama and his policies, it is highly likely you may not have your benefits at all due to out of control spending bankrupting us....just like Greece...
Where Greece is a small country and other nations can bail them out.....who can bail us out...
No one has that amount of money, unless they print it and then the value of your dollar goes crashing down...
Start thinking for yourself, your children and their grandchildren.....their livelihood depends on it.
well said, smarti
Shepherd, that's where you are wrong... Romney/Ryan's proposed changes WOULD immediately effect those over 55. While the proposed Medicare changes are targeted to go into effect in the future, by repealing the ACA, immediately current seniors would face increased fees due to waste... and the 'donut hole' which has been closed by our President would once again be opened, costing seniors untold additional money in prescription costs.
Why don't you try to be truthful and let the sides 'run' on the actual facts instead of spewing talking points?
Obama has never ran a business, he barely showed up for the job he had as a senator. He spends more time on Letterman, The View and the golf course than he does the oval office. If you look back at the last four years, his work ethic totally sucks. And, you are fooling yourself if you think Obama is "one of us". Most of US love this country. I'm not so sure that guy even likes us. Hell, he never soluted the flag until he had to.
Jen did you get paid to post that drivel? Reads like a script from one of those right wing emails that keep circulating.
Perhaps you could provide a reliable source to back up your ridiculous statements.....much appreciate that
A vote for Obama is a vote for ruin. His policies have failed and other than being a good speaker (when he has a teleprompter), his lack of experience is telling.
Romney has succeeded in business, in saving the Olympics, and he has the experience to pull the U.S. out of the hole.
You may have forgotten but Romney saved the Olympics with over a billion dollars in tax payer money. Now Romney would have you believe he saved the Olympics all by himself. Seems like most of Romney's success has come with the help of government money.
Romney's plan would bury America under debt to give more and bigger tax cuts to Romney.
After the republicans voted against jobs for our veterans, what makes you think the republicans care about America or her people?
The republicans are so against America that they actually voted against jobs for our returning war veterans. Then the republicans want you to then blame our President for their votes and the lack of jobs in America that the republicans have voted against over and over.
VOTE FOR TRUTH AND FREEDOM TO VOTE....VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT 2012
Diamond 60 - the teleprompter thing AGAIN???? Did you watch your convention???? Good laws!
If you haven't realized it yet, you better start checking your SS account. If Social Security is going to be empty in 4 years, you should calculate what has been stolen from you. YOU and your employer(s) have paid out of your salary for the many years you have worked, just to be able to retire some day. Well, you have reached retirement age, and guess what, there's no money in that "savings" account anymore.
If you think Oblammer is going to put it back, your off your rocker. And from what I've seen now, SS checks are being shown not as your Social Security Benefit. but as some Federal something. I have it on another computer system, so will have to send it to this one to back that up.
I find Oblammer to be a disgusting person. I also find Clinton to be a butt kisser and a liar right along with his marxist pres. I never voted for Clinton, and couldn't understand why he got a second term. If Oblammer is anything like that, we the people probably will be bending over AGAIN.
ONBC - The Obama National Broadcasting Company is in full swing. I wish their owner General Electric would just issue a press release and tell all the sheeple who to vote for this time so I could get back to my mind numbing television here in the land of the free.
You know Comcast owns NBC now, right? Also, ONBC? Lame. MSDNC was funnier.
How did Obama ever become president?? That's a head scratcher... OMG, what a complete FRAUD!
He is as incompetent as Jimmy Carter & is way out of his league... This is his first real job...lol and its time for the American people to let this guy go.. he isn't doing the job!!!
23 Million American's out of work will be heard in Nov...
dmj you have Forgotten Sarah....U betcha. The Rep/teas put the World in this mess. Ya it took them all of eight years to do it, but none the less THEY OWN the mess. Now they want the people to give them another chance of whole world financial collapse.?...Really? You and your "party" are a joke. But we are not laughing.
Throw All the Repbs/Baggers to the curb!
Obama is The Only choice.
Why no mention on FR about Wisconsin??
Is Romney actually in the lead in that Battleground state?? Isn't that the state where the left could not dislodge Governor Walker?? Isn't that Rep Paul Ryan's home state??
What about Florida?? How's Romney/Ryan really doing there?? Isn't that the battleground state with 29 electoral votes??
What's really going on now??
Are you talking about the same Wisconsin that let Walker keep his job but neutered him by flipping the senate? Oh yea and then there is that thing where the state court shot down his "great accomplishment". And as for Ryan, well he may have a hard time since his district has one of the highest unemployment rates in the state. What? you didn't know that? Not surprised, low information republicans are a dime a dozen.
Tammy Baldwin has a 5 point lead in the latest polls.
Walker is still under federal investigation too.
Florida is a must-win for Romney, but winning Florida isn't enough. He has no path to victory without it, but just getting, say Florida and North Carolina doesn't get him to 270. In other words, even if it is a swing state, it won't be the state that swings the election.
There is a plausible, if unlikely, path for Romney that does not include Ohio. He'd have to win Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, Colorado, Iowa, and Wisconsin. It's unlikely because odds are that if Romney wins Wisconsin, he also wins Ohio, since it is a generally less Democratic state. But let's assume there's been a big shift lately in Wisconsin and that Ryan bumps the ticket up enough locally to win. But that's an overly hopeful plan for Romney given that Obama's out polling him by a wide margin in Wisconsin. If Romney's counting on swinging Wisconsin, he's very likely already lost.
President Obama also has an unlikely path without Ohio, so it's not a quite a must win for him either, but it's certainly assured that whoever loses Ohio on election night will be sweating pretty hard, waiting for the western timezones to report, and polishing up their concession speech in the meantime.
The great liberal train wreck is almost over... 40+ more days left until we have new leadership in the White House... I don't know if the USA can stand any more assaults on the middle class or our reputation in the world.. LOL
Our reputation will continue to be assaulted around the world because are Americans and have our liberty and freedoms which others like Al Qaeda and the Taliban hate.
it doesn't matter who is president America will always have groups that hate us.....until we launch the Big Dipsy Do in their backyard turning it into a new landfill to store garbage from New Jersey in.
djames...You can open your eyes and uncover your ears now. Reality, no matter how unpleasant, is always easier to grasp that way.
Obama/Biden 2012. A foregone conclusion.
nobama... a gone conclusion.. SEE YA LATER O.... back to Hawaii... if they will have you...
Even if your righty wet-dream were true, the new president gets sworn-in in January. You don't seem to understand or know anything about how this country works yet you think you are an expert. I meet alot of those. They are called low-information voters, and they are the only demographic Romney is leading in: white males with a high-school education or less.
djames, go back down stairs you are bothering your mother and leave the computer alone. I travel for work all over the world about half of the year. The President is more respected than Bush or any of those people ever were and Romney is nothing more than a joke. Rather you agree with him or not, the President has done more to restore our reputation after 8 years of the republicans. Listen little boy when you actually get a passport, speak more than one language and live and work in another country then you can tell us their opinion until then go back inside your trailer and shut up
There is a huge gap between "liking" someone and "respecting" someone. I think the rest of the world likes him, as well and his minions,(because he is a pushover and a nice enough guy) but doesn't respect him like they should. He is all promises of days to come. Problem is, tomorrow never comes. When it gets here, it is today.
Ohioans want results.
We do not want maybes, if this', or if that's.
Ohioans see results in president Obama's leadership.
1.He said that he would bring Osama Bin Laden to justice....and he did. It didn't take president Obama eight years to do so costly trillions of dollars and thousands of American, Allied Forces or Middle Eastern Allies.
Success....... A +
2.President Obama also inspired Libya to oust Ghadaffi....another known terrorist that has been involved in killing of Americans and other people from different nations.
Sucess.......A +
3. Obama said that he would bring the troops home from the Middle East. Which he has done.
Sucess...... A +
President Obama has maintained his words and done what he said he would do instead of floundering in the bay and keeping the hunt for Bin Laden going just because it would have been a golden vote just like it was for the last administration.
Now with the troops returning home the cost of the war will slowly recede to pre-war levels where the money spent on the war will be spent here at home on Americans.
The only real complaint that I have with Obama is.....why wasn't he the president during 9.11.01? He would have taken Osama Bin Laden out within a few months with minimal cost of money and manpower involved.
President Obama ....American leadership that we can count on to deliver.
"Mission Accomplished."
dwightthuth....you do realize that it was years of intelligence and effort by our fine men and women of the armed forces and intelligence services, especially at Guantanamo Bay (prior to Obama taking office) that led to finding him....let's stay with the facts.
Second...Obama did nothing on Libya...the U.N., France and Britain did...We stayed out...
Third....Now that our troops are out of the Middle East....chaos is reigning supreme....and radical islamists are taking over countries.....don't see how that is a success at all.
How about his other promises?
1. "Cut the deficit in half"..has added over $6 Trillion in new debt...now over $16 Trillion and climbing..
2. "Pass the stimulus" and unemployment won't exceed 7% (went to over 10% and still over 8)
3. Obamacare will cut medical costs and help middle class...Cost has almost tripled and middle class getting hammered with tax increases.
4. "Energy costs will necessarily skyrocket"...oh, he kep that one...$1.80/gal gas in 2009..$4.00 now......
Obama has failed on the economy, failed on foreign policy and is systematically weakening this country...
Please wake up and stop listening to the left wing media drivel...your future and your kids future depends on it.
Shepherd - no, the Republicans in Congress who signed an oath to Grover Norquist instead of doing their job for the United States are the failures. They have put the country on the path to ruin. They are the treasonous and should be held accountable for their actions.
Who the hell is Grover Norquist that ANYONE would sign an oath to him? Is THAT what you elected your congressmen to do?
Obama/Biden 2012
Yes lets us look at what the republicans call promises.
What the republicans want you to forget is that it was the republicans like Ryan that voted for the deficit and have voted against any new jobs or tax revenue to pay down the debt they created.
This is the most favorite lie of the right. This was never said by President Obama. Republicans also like to forget that our economy they broke was twice as bad as we originally thought. Which is the real reason unemployment is still high.
There have been no tax increases, but that won't stop the republicans lying about it. Due to Obama-care, seniors are currently enjoying savings on their prescriptions that the republicans want to take away.
Now the republicans would have you believe that the President sets the gas prices. And don't want you to think about who is getting rich off these high prices. The Koch brothers are raking in the money, getting special tax cuts voted on by the republicans and want you to blame our President for their financial success.
You would think that President Obama just voted against jobs for our returning veterans instead of the stinking pond scum that calls itself republicans.
Your future does depend on your vote. If you are against our children and our veterans and our seniors having a future then vote for Romney and more tax cuts for him and his rich friends.
Those of us who love all Americans and believe in women's right to freedom will be voting for Democrats in 2012.
AmericansFirst-
Excellent rebuttal!
Grand Slam!
President Obama is one of the best President's this great nation has ever had.
Salud
Typical Dems - full of crap.
Will this election be another "surprise" to the left, like the 2010 mid-terms??
If they could'nt see the Mid-term results coming, then they are in for a huge shock after this one.
I will be her with my gloating posts all pre-written on the morning of November 7th.
More like crying in your Cheerios.
No way Romney is winning this one.
According to Fox News 9/18 poll, Florida is Obama 49%, Romney 44%
Wisconsin's Rasmussen poll from 9/18 has similiar numbers.
Romney is trying to convince you that he wants to be the President for 100% of America. That's a nice slogan. However, the facts remain that his budget is more trickle down economics. He clearly wants a top down strategy and there is no way he can do that without taxing the middle class.
It's in everything he says. "47% of people don't pay taxes". You also hear Republicans talking about "broadening the base". This is all code for having the middle class pay more in taxes.
Romney says he'll offer vouchers for Medicare but that you'll have a choice. Well, that's before the elections. Do you think that you'll have that choice after the elections? The party that has always wanted to do away with Medicare says they want to save it? Does that make sense. NO.
So Romney offers a fantasy tax plan (independents looking at it can't get it to work), no plan for health care reform, and a promise not to end Medicare (however his plan of keeping Medicare Advantage makes it insolvent faster).
You decide. I know who I'm voting for.
lol, I swear MSNBC could just put a little 'vote' box after each one of these politics articles:
'I'm voting for Obama'
'I'm voting for Romney'
'I haven't decided yet'
The net effect would be the same, no comments would be needed
anyone posting here paid 2 million in taxes and gave 4 million to charity last year or any year for that matter? romney made 14 million last year and wrote a check to the govt and his charities for nearly half of it. i know you libs will say thats not enough but to sane rational producing people that is seems fair.
He could give it all away and people would still think bad of him. Doesn't matter. It's obvious most people aren't aware how the tax code works OR how the capital gains tax work either. Everything he's done is legal and within the TAX CODE our government came up with.
a tithe to the Mormon Chruch is not the same as a charity. You should really go outside and get some fresh air, the funk of Fox News is starting to effect your critical thinking skills.
Detroit is in love with obamie... no doubt he dreams of close encounters with him..... ugh
These people like detroit are the TARDs who bow to obama... worship at his feet... think he is perfect... pledge allegiance to him and kiss his ass...HAHAHAHA!
NICE PIC uncle Henry... that says it all about our FRAUD-in-Chief LOL
romney didn't either. Actually, he filed his return to show a higher rate so that he wouldn't lie again about always paying at least 13%. Then within 3 years he can amend that tax return and take the full deduction which will lower his rate to 10%. Just as he revised his returns to show that he filed his taxes using Massachusetts as his home state. He lied to the Mass citizens. Saying someone gave $2M in charities who is worth $250M is not that big a deal. Especially when he has untold amounts in foreign banks hiding from the tax man - very presidential.
All of the charities he gave money to are public. You can go look them all up, they are not all MORMON associated. Go take a minute to look it up yourself.
its obvious the man cant win liberal backing evidenced by the replies to my orig post. single out the mormon church if you wish but you cannot deny they shelter, feed, help millions with the donations. if he donated to the catholic church that is somehow better? and nice try with the well he is just going to amend his statements if he loses. the point is almost half of the country would never vote for him even if he crapped gold bullion and this is what he was saying to his financial backers. its called playing to your audience. no different than crazy uncle joe telling the black folk yall be in chains. hypocrisy and envy control the dnc.
I'm a CPA and I am sure that what he paid is totally legal, the man has millions to pay lots of lawyers and accountants. This is just one more way that the sheeple get lost in the detail, dumb as$e$ from both parties. The tax code is 18,000 pages, with lots of little lines in there to help small little groups of people. You want to reform welfare, start with corporate and agriculture welfare. Income is income, call it dividends or capital gains and then it is different. Contributions to charities is stupid, what give millions to an opera so lots of rich people can go watch it. If you want to give to a charity of your choice, then GIVE, don't give for the deduction. One other thing dumb as$ Henry. The Mormon church is a cult every bit as nuts as all of the others. I am sure you are on duty right now protecting them right? Just for everybody else, if a woman in the Mormon church is vocally pro-choice and pro-equal rights for women she can be kicked out of the church. The Mormon church is perfect for the current republicans, that hate women.
ok so apparently you arent happy that he gave 10% to his church. what group would you like him to give his money to? while we are on this who gave liberals the ideation they are in charge of where citizens give their income? would you be less less envious and bitter if romney gave his money to a pro homosexual group or planned parenthood? after all the two most important things to liberals is homosexuality and on demand abortion right? to sum it all up for the simple folk: libs have had 6 years to put their policies in place and run the country and right now the economy is circling the drain, more people on govt assistance than ever and terrorists are butt raping and killing are officials. i say we let someone new give it a try, someone that knows how to make money and can lead
Mitt the twit could not lead us out of a wet paper bag.
If Romney was so smart he would have gotten his finances in order, brought home those off shore accounts, closed the Swiss bank accounts. If he had done those things, he could have shown the American people his tax returns. But no, Mitt is so stupid he had to keep all his tax avoidance in place for his greed.
So now Romney has to hide his tax returns to hide all his lies. Yeah Romney made money he just doesn't want anyone to know how he did it.
Somehow the man who has no forethought and has to fix his private taxes retroactively to match his current lies is the republicans ideal of a man who can lead?
VOTE FOR EDUCATION...VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT 2012
uc...What needs to be done IS change the House congress and boot the Party of "NO" OUT...then things can move Forward. I was a long time proud member of the GOP...Not Now. The Teabaggers have cannibalized the party into a selfish, hate-filled, lying group of OLD white guys after the Bucks. Sad. And BTW why any person who loves their wife, daughter, sister, mother, grandmother, aunt OR like woman in general would vote for this Empty suit it beyond Reason or logic.
Dan-1015744 - if I could vote your comment up more, I would excellent post ...
AMEN!
MPEACH OBAMA !!
Who is Obama's REAL father?.................................Who is the REAL Obama?
Why has Obama failed to show his Real birth certificate? Who has been financing Obama? Why
hasn't he made his college transcripts public? Why does he want you to vote before this
information is acknowledged by the public?
www.ourcommunistcommanderinchief.com...........................Copy and Paste.......Watch
A full length movie with the TRUE facts. Watch before Obama has it banned from the public.
Just another Zombie crawling out its crypt and foaming at the mouth. The GOP and Romney are relying on this vocal voting bloc to swing independents to the right????
Pfffft! TRUE facts?!! LOL! True how? Because Karl Rove gave his ringing endorsement?!! Dude...get lost with that bs.
do us a favor, push the barrel hard against your forehead and firmly pull the trigger.
Dan,
Totally disagree with Range but your post is certainly not that of a progressive democrat is it?
pretty sure telling someone to kill themselves is against the msdnc code of honor. lets see if this mental giant gets booted as he should.
Range wolf you are the one that is an idiot . All you believe is a Extreme Right wing movie that was made up with a mess of lies and you belive anything that the right wingers tell you. How many tiomes does Obama have to show his real birth certificate to proof idiots like you that he was born in the USA..He is more of an American than either Romney or Ryan at least his mother was an American born and neither of the parents of Romnbey or Ryan was American born. I am beginning to think that Republicans is made up of 70% of people that needs to be put in the crazy house.
Obama get an F- in foreign policy... and has the audacity to call Mitt out and say he has no experience....LOL, well we all know who has no experience... and that is NOBAMA!!
Romney has more experience in his pinky finger then Obama has in his whole lifetime.. Oblaaa blaa can't work with people who disagree with him so their you have the impasse on American politics... all he knows how to do is attend fund raisers while the world burns...
Djames - Your assessment of Obama's foreign policy successes rests comfortably with the remaining 8% of this nation whose far right ideology has completely blinded them from reality. Congrats on your proud tea party hatriot affiliation. You must be proud to be such an anomaly, devoid of any common sense at all.
Hey upset : Djames: yes Romney has a lot of foreign policy lookat all the Bane companies he sent to other countries. Bane \Romney were the pioneers in sending companies to China !! NOW THAT IS FOREIGN POLICY FOR THE USA THAT HE HAS
Bay Buchannon is such delusional trooper and her belief in the polls lie. She is nasty, mean and indicative of what a Romney administration would look like.
Yes, I agree, bay Buchannon is delusional. even the other Republican surrogates on the show were in agreement about Romney's flaws.
And, it was interesting that, on the closing shot, she had left when everyone else was still there. I have the feeling she had a little temper tantrum because no one agreed with her - evne David Gregory!
Obama/Biden 2012
According to Fox News 9/18 poll, Florida is Obama 49%, Romney 44%
Wisconsin's Rasmussen poll from 9/18 has similiar numbers.
All of Romneys and Ryan's are just outrageous liars. And the American people know they are liars. Bay Buchanan is a wicked witch.
Bay speaks the truth.
I am a self employed senior citizen who is a veteran and has always worked and paid taxes. My uncles were combat veterans in WWII. They each collected social security and used the VA hospital and then medicare until they died. I have done the same thing. I bought a home with a loan gaunteed by the VA and paid it off. My wife went to college on a government loan and has paid it back. I am not offended that Romney would say that the 47% of the people who are in some way dependent on government will never vote for him. I am deeply offended because of his comments about (and apparently me and my family) and that he cannot help as well as several other derogatory comments. I will not vote for or support a draft dodger who holds me in contempt. I am not saying there is anything wrong with not serving and there are many people who have their reasons. I am saying that being contemptuous of one half of the poplulation eliminates you being president in my book. It also eliminates you from being around me at all. I think that when questioned Romney said in effect that his words were crude. He did not deny the sentiments. I believe that he meant them because he was speaking to people just like him and apparently they see the rest of us as their workers, soldiers and sponges. Ryan has sponged off the government all of his adult life and Romney sees nothing wrong with that. Whatever questions I have aboout Obama's competence at least I don't think he holds me in contempt. I guess I have decided which way to go. It has been argued that Romney did not say what he meant. I also have real doubts about putting a guy in the white house in his sixties that has not learned to accurately express himself.
Ron Brock, well said.
The right is trying to claim Romney did not mean what he said but, in my view, that video of Mitt is exactly how Romney feels and how those multi-millionaires feels; that is what he and they think of the working poor, of seniors, of veterans, of the disabled--he sees them as leeches on his the their bank accounts. He has dropped hints of similar views throughout his campaign such as he's "not worried about the very poor". The Boca Raton video with the multi-millionaires voicing such contempt for those who struggle was the icing on the pre-baked Mitt cake.
The right said Romney didn't mean what he said !! What he said was behind closed doors at a $50000 dinner and wasn't meant to have the outside voters hear what he said it wasn't meant to be made public as to what he really meant
the problem is not Mitt Romney,YOU JUST CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH.He had the balls to say what everyone wants to say.
When Romney follows the tax laws and winds up paying as little as possible in taxes, that's OK.
But when anyone else follows the tax laws and winds up paying as little as possible in taxes, they are freeloaders!
Republican hypocrisy knows no bounds.
You need to look up the tax codes.
Romney pays 14% even though he's retired, plus vast amounts in charity giving.
Half the population pay 0%. Another 30% pays less than Romney.
Half of the half paying 0 actually get free money from the IRS instead of paying federal income taxes, which means they really don't even pay payroll tax, that's negated by the handout.
Poor Harbinger ... when it comes to paying Taxes, talk to Charlie Rangel (D-NY) ... what is the water in N? ... it seems Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) also has filed questionable Tax Returns.
At least Ronmey follows the Tax Code, weather you agree with the Code or not.
Obama pays around 23% ... is your rate this low?
Mitt "Corporations Are People" Romney and Paul "Tea Party Darling" Ryan are the flip-flop-flipping, tag-team purveyors of misinformation, disinformation and false information. Romney & Ryan think they and their right wing multi-millionaire and billionaire money-men can buy the Office of President of the United States and Lyin' Ryan will get to be V.P. But, the American people are too smart for Romney and his purveyors of false information and they say 'No Sale' to quarter-of-a-billion-dollar Romney and his right wing financiers.
all that special interest tax breaks, credits and deductions are put in by both Dems and Repubs in Congress, and you must be biased if you ignore such a fact.
if you don't like how much Romney is paying, then push for tax reform. at least, Romney is promoting his tax reform agendas, and we could expect (if he's elected) he'd work with Congress to pass a sort of tax reform, which is good for this country and economy.
on the other hand, what else Obama is going to do on his 2nd term beside saying raising tax only on 1%, which wouldn't be enough for paying government running for 2 weeks. without real tax reform, we would keep borrowing money to pay for 40% government spending as we are now. is this what American people want?
What EXACTLY is this tax reform agenda Romney is pushing? Details please. I won't hold my breath waiting. I am certain you haven't a clue as to what the details are because Romney himself hasn't a clue. So in essence Cellisis, you are pushing that which does not exist. Did you honestly think no one would notice?
Cellisis
You do know His TAX reform amounts to Huge tax breaks for the top 2% Right??? He and Ryan want to Pay for the next round of Rich corporate welfare on the Backs of the poor and disabled, vets, women and the old & sick...that's what you want? WOW. You and your party are really sick with Hatred. Get help, you need it. Pitiful.
And U must be stu*pid if you Ignore These FACTS
I bet he wants to tax rainbows and puppies too. Has anyone ever on these blogs got a job from a poor person; short of dealing drugs or handy man projects the answer is no. Mitt wants to cut loop holes and lower the tax rate to incentivize businesss coming back and growing in America. When he talks about expanding the base he meanss "if there is move people working aka paying into the tax system there will not be a need to raise taxes. WAKE UP SHEEPLE
Wealthy Americans earn about 50 percent of all income but pay nearly 70 percent of the federal tax burden. Harbinger-2218646 and praysalot...I think you should volunteer to pay more than them. The top 50% pay 97.75 of the taxes while the bottom 50% pay 2.25%. Go ahead, be a hero.