NEW YORK (AP) - The U.S. government's debt rating could be heading for the "fiscal cliff" along with the federal budget.

Moody's Investors Service on Tuesday said it would likely cut its "Aaa" rating on U.S. government debt, probably by one notch, if budget negotiations fail.

If Congress does not reach a budget deal, about $1.2 trillion in spending cuts and tax increases will automatically kick in starting Jan. 2, a scenario that's been dubbed the "fiscal cliff," because it is likely to send the economy back into recession and drive unemployment up.

http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=AP&date=20120911&id=15543528

Boehnor is the problem along with all those who refuse to COMPROMISE. Why CAN"T they get SERIOUS NOW?

The rating agencies are ready to downgrade us again if CONGRESS cannot reach a deal before the first of the year.

In its report Tuesday, Moody's said it is difficult to predict when Congress will reach a deal on the budget, and it will likely keep its current rating and "negative" outlook until the outcome of the talks is clear.

In Washington, House Speaker John Boehner said he's not confident that Congress can reach a deal and avoid a downgrade. No serious negotiations are expected until after the November elections.

Moody's also noted that the government will likely again reach the debt limit by the end of the year, which means another round of negotiations in Congress on raising the limit if the U.S. is to keep paying its bills. "Under these circumstances, the government's rating would likely be placed under review after the debt limit is reached, but several weeks before the exhaustion of the Treasury's resources," Moody's analyst Steven A. Hess said in his report.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/moodys-set-downgrade-us-without-131823433.html

TELL CONGRESS to GET to WORK now! What the hell do we pay them for if not to WORK?

So is Bob Woodward's book the new source of all correct information?

If so ...

"It was a difficult time. I still look at my failure to come to an agreement with the president as the biggest disappointment of my speakership," Boehner said in reflecting on that period, which is detailed in a new book by journalist Bob Woodward.

And then Boehner quotes it to the page . . .

Boehner said. "The president didn't want his re-election inconvenienced by another fight by a $1.2 trillion dollar increase in the debt ceiling.

So which is it according to the "truth of Bob" . . . a failure for Boehner or an inconvenience for the President?

I personally am calling BS on the inconvenience line ....

Obama/Biden 2012

Insane Cracker Party -- Are you a conservative pretending to be a liberal in order to make liberals look bad, or are you really liberal? Either way, you can't just make stuff up. Doesn't matter what "side" you're on.

We should be happy for these cuts. Especially to the totally wasteful defense budget. A military flashlight will now have to be purchased for $900, not $1000 - that is a huge problem, I'm sure... (rolls eyes)

The purpose of the sequestration was to force meaningful budget cuts if Congress could not come to terms on a negotiated "grand bargain". Congress did not come to terms so let the legislation go into effect.

If they didn't intend to cut spending they shouldn't have passed this legislation. Leave it as is and let the chips fall where they may. The unexpected consequences may be much more beneficial than anyone thought.

Boehner's Congress has been a total failure. His lack of faith in himself and the tea party is staggering. The 10% approval rating is well deserved.

In regard to Boehner's comment: ".....Having said that, somehow we have to deal with our spending problem. America continues to spend more money than we bring in and we have to resolve it and stop this business of kicking the can down the road."

How about bending on the ..."BRING IN" - side of the argument Mr. Boehner. The president had gone a considerable ways in conceding entitlements and you idiots wouldn't bend an inch on taxes. What's worse is you have a platform and candidate that's willing to suggest giving additional tax breaks to upper eschelon incomes and tax the middle class even more while increasing military spending beyond what military leadership even requests. The sequestor was established as an untenable circumstance so both sides would be forced to compromise on a solution. Offering a House solution that soley relies on deep cuts to entitlements without any attention to revenue 'should be' and 'was' rejected as a non-starter. Get with the program or the Americans you supposedly represent will march to Washington & make the vote for you.

Laura Ingraham was right: In November we should throw them all out and start over!

Americans have the right to be represented!

Obama/Biden 2012

Just don't give in to the republicans. No matter what happens in the elections, the Senate and House terms don't end until 01-03-13.

"It was a difficult time. I still look at my failure to come to an agreement with the president as the biggest disappointment of my speakership," Boehner said

Do the honorable thing and resign. You are worthless as house majority leader. You ask "where is the leadership", hopefully your dumb butt was standing in front of the mirror when you asked that question. You miserable azzholes were satisfied with getting 99% of what you wanted, you let the tea baggers dictate to you what was acceptable instead of managing your members.

Boehner 'not confident at all' fiscal cliff can be avoided...

Translated: I am worthless as the House Majority Leader.

So, how many of us would still have a job if we couldn't come to an agreement and find a solution for such a critical situation? These A Holes are paid with our tax dollars, have superior insurance coverage than the people do and the perks are beyond measure and they can't seem to do their jobs.

I say fire them all! Boehner = Debbie Downer. Has anything positive ever come out of this man's moth? Stop with the whining and do your job!

Settle down Joe, and prop yourself in front of Dumfux news channel and get your new thoughts er bull@!$%#.

Unfortunately, this must happen. With those stupid Tax Pledges the republicans signed, the only way to increase revenue is to let the Bush cuts expire. And they still clammer that the democrats won't compromise when the republicans CAN'T compromise because of Norquist and his masters.

And by the way, the rich are paying 15% income tax and the rest of us are paying over 25.

Democrats are going to allow ALL tax rates to rise.

Let me finish that statement for you. They will then raise taxes on those making $250K and above. Better than Romney's plan which will RAISE taxes on those who can LEAST afford it.

OK Bonehead Boehner, then do something in Congress and stop this do nothing to make Obama one term presidents. Stop being a crybaby and stop saying, "No" to everything. Compromise needs to be added to the republican vocabulary again!

Said Boehner:

"I still look at my failure to come to an agreement with the president as the biggest disappointment of my speakership..."

As you should Mr. Speaker. First coming to an agreement, then walking away from said agreement is indeed a failure of yours to reflect upon.

We already know that this issue isn't due to be addressed until after the elections because both parties agreed that this issue should not be politicized.

Because Republicans are falling behind in the election and it looks like Republicans are going to lose and lose badly, Republicans are trying the "kitchen sink" approach, trying to throw everything in the mix to see if ANYTHING will work.

So far for Republicans, nuttin.

Obama/Biden 2012

@ ProBusiness Are you stupid or purposefully lying? Here is what the democrats propose:

www.nytimes.com/2012/07/18/us/politics/senate-democrats-propose-letting-all-tax-cuts-expire.html?pagewanted=all

and they do so to keep your inane Tea Party Taliban from jumping on what sane Republicans are left for breaking some kind of "promise" and increasing tax rates on the wealthiest Americans.

Learn to think before you post

I'm sure if there was a Republican in office, he would be very confident. It goes to show how he, and ALL politicians, are full of it. Also shows how reckless Boehner is with wild statements like this. It's only going to cause harm to all of us if consumer spending goes down b/c a$$holes like Boner, er Boehner, are playing political games.

Probusiness... "Democrats are going to allow ALL tax rates to rise." This is a lie and you should know better. The dems proposal is to raise taxes on those making 250K or more and maintain the current tax rates for those making below this amount.

The 112th Congress (aka WORST CONGRESS EVER) is, once again, casting doubt on the FULL FAITH AND CREDIT of the US and jeopardizing the the continued use of the US dollar as the global reserve currency. Shame on them and shame on the blue dog dems for failing the American people AGAIN.

"I'm not confident at all," Boehner exclaimed

By this Boehner is saying he and his obstructionist cohorts are not going to compromise to resolve an issue that directly affects the American people. Again.

It is just another nail in the coffin of the GOP's chances in November...

Joe from A. You know most of us agree with the words said to you and about you. Stop supporting the rich and passing on the costs to those who can't afford it. I see Madison, Wisconsin is putting out 4 permanent ports potties for the homeless in the city as the state and federal cuts will double their numbers int the next two years. Thank you Wacko Walker and the republican'ts.

If we do indeed go over the cliff I sure hope johnny bonner is in the cart, head first! You see, it is not just that we need to tax the 1% now, it is the fact that we should never, ever have given the 1% a larger tax break than they already had. Perhaps they should not only have an increase now but also pay back those years when the tax break went into effect.

As opposed to all the borrowing Congress did to fund to Foreign Occupations?

Climbing a cliff requires one step at a time, every step taken that got us to this point matters, but unfortunately the Party Regimes don't see it that way.

Nothing will change, its pointless to vote for either party..

Probusiness, since taxes are the lowest they have been since 1958 what is the complaint. the top 5% already won 42% of the wealth, up from 40% two years ago and climbing. have you ever heard the word, Greed? How about Compromise?

Clearly the lack of leadership is coming from John Boehner. He doesn't have the courage to control his highly radicalized herd of cats. They will gleefully watch their own ship sink if it means they don't hand even the smallest hint of success to the president.

Old JB has become a sycophantic whipping boy of the tea party freak show. And he accuses the president of not showing leadership. What a wing nut.

NEWSFLASH --

Driver drunk on his own delusions of grandeur, piloting careening bus that has no brakes, carrying the hopes and dreams of all Americans on board, heading straight toward 1000-foot cliff at 100 miles an hour ....

.... is not confident that he can avoid a crash.

Film at 11.

TO: clwyd-2621393 who wrote:

"OK Bonehead Boehner, then do something in Congress and stop this "do nothing" to make Obama a one term president. Stop being a crybaby and stop saying, "No" to everything..."

Crybaby Boehner is only able to do "none of the above".

John "Crybaby" Boehner is the weakest Speaker I have ever seen in my entire lifetime.

Boehner has absolutely NO control or influence over the Teagaggers that the RWNJs sent to Washington last November in order to "insert gridlock" into the political workings of Washington.

When Boehner speaks to the teagaggers, they tell him where to go in no uncertain terms.

Obama/Biden 2012

Exactly American Girl.

The cliff is there because the republicans have taken all their toys and gone home. They don't want to play. I have 6 and 3 year old grandsons that are more adult then the republicans int he House. Oh, by the way this House has been rated the poorest ever in American History for legislation. A bunch of Do Nothings!

Today the Dow reached the highest mark since Dec. 2007 @ 13,354.

If Congress fails to make a deal the Dow will be back below 9,000 by COB Jan. 2 and a new recession will begin with a loss of at least 5,000,000 jobs driving unemployment to over 12% by April and U6 to over 20%.

Boehner, Pelosi, Reid, McConnell and our President must make a deal during the lame duck session if not sooner.

String up Bonehead Boehner!

Thank you American Girl!

'You made your bed and now you have to lie in it.' (Lie being the operative word.)

Bohner should be pleased with himself. He and his bagger friends helped knock down America's credit rating, keep unemployment high, and solutions few and far between.

Now, he is saying with a majority in the House, he is powerless to stop another recession. This one might just do us all in. It should get him into the history books, but I doubt it will be a complimentary entry.

If Boehner can't do his job, then he needs to be replaced by someone who will!

I really do need to keep up more.

If we could these dam idiots to work 5 days a week like everyone has to and cut their pay and cap it at 45 K a year ..they would see things differently !They have no boss to watch what they are doing ...I am willing to bet you they work less then 20 hours a week ..And these 80% of your salary retirements? For what they haven't done a dam thing !

Just throw a big cocktail party and slide Boehner a approval to sign. He only makes sense when he is drunk, he is slightly likeable when he is drunk, Oh SHT, he is a giant F Drunk and running a major party of this country??

Yo, Homie the Cracker party!! Your on the right track but don't go to far towards communism. Smiles, it be tesdays and de wefares check bees in de mail fer you.

Boehner is hamstrung by his lieutenant Eric Cantor who is one of the Tea Party leaders. It is time to send a message to Washington that the Tea Party is wrong for America. Their refusal to raise taxes on millionaires or do any stimulus which our economy badly needs is reason enough to send them all packing. Their adherence to a balanced budget in a time of high unemployment defies the logic of their hero Ronald Reagan who almost tripled the national debt in his 8 years in an effort to stimulate the economy with huge tax cuts and increased defense spending even though the federal reserve was also able to cut the discount rate (rate charged banks) from 14% in May 1981 to under 7% by the end of 1982 which also stimulated the economy. Reagan's and the Fed's stimulus actions did work to add 7 million jobs in the 84-85 post recession period.

These Tea Party guys were elected in 2010 on the promise that they would create jobs, yet their strategy of a balanced budget (austerity) simply does not work and never has in the history of capitalist economies. You cannot cut spending with high unemployment without incurring many lost jobs and further decreasing revenue which only makes balancing a budget more difficult.

And even worse is all those unemployed who you can either pay 70% of their previous income in unemployment or leave them go bankrupt further hurting the fragile banking and housing sectors of the economy as well as overall consumer sales (70% of our economy) being reduced thus ushering in not only higher deficits but also a recession. It is idiotic to let these ignorant politicos stay in Washington.

Fire the Tea Party. And usher in a period of sane fiscal and economic policies in our great country.

To borrow from one of the Repub's own, what the Dems and Obama should say to Boehner:

Go ahead, make my day.

looming tax hikes that will cost our economy some 700,000 jobs," the Republican speaker

The tax rate increase do to the Bush tax cuts being repealed for income over 250K means that on all income over 250K a tax payer rate will go from 36% to 39%. A increase of 3% per 1000 dollars. A extra $30 dollars per $1k after $250K is not going to kill anyone or anything. Seems to me if the uber wealthy are going to be hurt so badly guys like the Koch Bros. and Sheldon Adelson could always cut back on the buying of politicians at $100 million a pop. Sound like capitalism 101 being applied to the mega wealthy. They'll have to chose how to spend their cash. JUST LIKE THE REST OF US! Mr. Boehner and his folks have been out maneuvered. Either they start acting in a responsible bi-partison manner, compromise and get on with the business of the American people or a lot of GOP wasteful spending will automatically get cut. It's not a cliff unless you suckle from the breast of the GOP wild spending for the military industrial complex.

"(Obama) says we need more firemen, more policemen, more teachers. Did he not get the message of Wisconsin? It's time for us to cut back on government and help the American people."

—Mitt Romney at a campaign event in Council Bluffs, Iowa, June 8, 2012

This is a perfect example of the thought processes of Governor Romney, the GOP, and especially of Boehner. By "helping the American people" they mean "putting money in our pockets at the expense of the American people". By refusing to compromise to divert a fiscal disaster for the federal government, Boehner is saying, "It's not about what is best for the American people; it's all about what is best for the Republican Party". Judging from the latest polls the American people are turning away from the Party of No and toward a brighter future with President Obama.

President Obama in November! He is clearly our only rational choice!

Feisty, would you not give me those visuals while I'm eating????? hahahah!!! By the ignore is working again today!!!! YAY!

I love the extremes here Weeper of the House, Bumbler in Chief etc. etc.

I will try to take off my partisan cap here but in seriousness after scanning the first thread can only fully agree with...

Norm903

The purpose of the sequestration was to force meaningful budget cuts if Congress could not come to terms on a negotiated "grand bargain". Congress did not come to terms so let the legislation go into effect.

If they didn't intend to cut spending they shouldn't have passed this legislation. Leave it as is and let the chips fall where they may.

Yes repeal the tax cuts on all of us. The rich will pay their fair and rightful share, the middle class will pay more, both classes losing their deductions and paying a +/-4% higher rate. The working class and poor who don't make enough to be taxed anyway will not be affected.

To my fellow liberals that say we can repeal all the Bush tax cuts and then only add tax cuts on the rich, I disagree. DCIA, the nature of the Congress will not allow tax cuts to be raised on the rich. There will be a lot more republicans in Senate; even if the number stayed the same that legislation would be filibustered. Let Congress do what it does best, NOTHING, and let them all expire.

One thing I fault Obama for is his reupping on the Bush tax cuts, and also stumping that all we need to do to get fiscally on track is to tax the rich and cut a little spending. A non partisan would say we need tax increases on everybody and equal spending cuts on everything - defense, entitlement reform, social services.

That being said as a partisan, Obama still has my vote because the other guy believes you could cut social services and entitlements to the bone and still look for more fat.

TO: Joe in Albany-1902257 who wrote:

"...QUICK!!!!! Pull over and arrest Dem Sen. Patty Murray and throw her in jail on a no-bail warrant..."

OMG!!!

You KNOW Republicans are desperate when they start talking about throwing the democratic tennis-shoe and bobby-socks Mom, Patty Murray, in jail.

What a tickle!

Obama/Biden 2012

My recommendation is to see a proctologist and then a shrink, in that order.

You should refrain from sharing your hobbies with the normal people who frequent this site, Caesar. Your happy place is not a thing the rest of us want to think about.

Joe,

If our President isn’t reelected do you realize how
strong his hand will be in a lame duck session?

Congress should act before the election putting our President
in a difficult position. The problem there is that Congress is up for
reelection also and they don’t want voters to see they made a deal.

I'm beginning to wonder if Boehner understands he's the speaker of the house. It's sort of frightening to think this weasel would be in charge if something happened to Obama and Biden.

It's his JOB to get the house into shape to do what he tells them to do.

Kind of makes you long for the days of Newt Gingrich. At least he would have forced them to do what he wanted. Even if it was wrong.

If I was unable to do my job.

If I was unable to solve the problems at my work..

If I was unable to show a profit for my company...

I would be UNEMPLOYED.!!

No job. No work.. No profit... No company....

NO PAY, for my family..!!!

String up Caesar! Democrats in the Senate didn't add the keystone Pipeline to 40+ Bills in the House so that Democrats would have to vote against it because it is harmful tot he environment and the residence of the Dakotas, Nebraska and Kansas filed a law suit against it! This House was rated the poorest in legislation passage in the history of this country.

ProBusiness:

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country". We should all be happy to pay taxes, they are what allows our nation to function at all. No taxes means no public services, period.

I now that the private sector gets a hard-on for privatizing everything the Government operates but there are some things the private sector will not do and cannot do correctly.

I would also gladly pay higher taxes because I am not obsessed with money.

I'm not confident that the fiscal cliff can be avoided, either. Not with an idiot like John Boehner leading a pack of rabid extremists in the House who are determined to destroy America if that's what it takes to destroy Barack Obama's presidency.

Caesar, Please honestly state if you think that "FOX" is "Fair and Balanced." I had my 6 year old watching and wanted to see his reaction. He said, "Papa, why do they call Obama a God, a Muslim and all those other bad names?" If he can see and hear it why can't you righties?

I love how the un-elected Grover Norquist has such power that he can get the Republications to sign a commitment not to raise taxes.

I thought they were supposed to be representing their constituents.

Since we're so darned close to the edge of the fiscal cliff (thank you GOP) can't we just push Boehner and Cantor over? I think that might solve a great many problems and we could begin to recover from the mess the Republicans have so greatly increased!

Brianb - the "total control" lie about the Congress is just that. There were 44 days of "total control" and the President tried to work with a Congress he didn't realize had pledged to do all they could to make him one-term. Then, they filibustered more than any time in history!

Wake up! The Republicans are to blame for this mess and could care less about the country than they do POWER!

Obama/Biden 2012

WHO in their right mind.............errr I guess I might have answered my own question about voting for Bozo Boner and his righty tighty supporters.......Koch Bros. forever.......screw the country so 1% can prosper.

Feisty, would you not give me those visuals while I'm eating????? hahahah!!!

Whoops!

Sorry about that Layton! ☺

By the ignore is working again today!!!! YAY!

I see that! Double YAY!

I had been scrolling past their screeds as fast as I could! lol

I don't think Republicans even want to avoid "the fiscal cliff".

And somebody needs to tell crybaby Boehner that his job is NOT over until he reaches an agreement.

Just throwing something out there that he KNOWS will NOT be agreed to might be HALF his job, but it's actully his job to find "common ground" and get the job done.

Obama/Biden 2012

Insane Cracker and Feisty are paid slut MSNBC writers

Oh Brother!

Here we go again! lmao

Will you please make up your mind?

Get a F'in job both of you!!!,

I have a @!$%#ing job - you just said so yourself... remember?

I'm a paid slut MSNBC writer... according to you sweet-cheeks!

PS: You might want to look into some anger management, appears you have some serious issues! lol

You're like Sally Can't Dance you think if you go off on some irrelevant tangent you've made some point and one-upped someone?

I am assuming Sally Can't Dance is a juvenile play on words for my Newsvine handle. Oh well...you're doing the best you can do with the tools you've been given, I suppose.

Since I address your crazed ravings directly, my comments are relevant and the fact you are unable to recognize that fact means you have been one-upped without knowing it. As usual.

Fail again, little guy.

While we are laughing at...and not with...Caesar, we can reflect upon the overwhelming support of the American people for President Obama as evidenced by the latest polls. If anyone in the right wing lunatic fringe would like to snivel about "oversampling", please take your complaints to the American people: they represent the voting bloc that is turning away from your failed candidate and his hateful sidekick.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html

Yellowdog -- Honestly, my only concern is for the working poor. They are already forced to take assistance, why tax them more? They would be the most harmed. That seems counterproductive.

My preference would be to have a completely clean progressive tax code for all and perhaps not tax the first 15-20K of income for all. Tax all other income as income etc. But it's apparent no politician is willing to take that leap.

Brianb - I can accept that one party is not at fault for every problem I face and accept that. This is something that I never see coming from the other side. You claim all we do is blame and lie about republicans and gleefully wait for a supposed "socialistic" state.

By the way was against the extension of the Bush Tax cuts and for some portions of Simpson Bowles. Will more taxes and less spending help our deficit. Yes what else will. Ten years of tax cuts have not magically produced an increased hiring and increased tax base.

Also the "total control super majority" meme has been shown false from day one. Kennedy and Byrd being sick and Spencer turning to a D in the spring, Franken not swearing in until June because of Coleman and his court fights.

If you can agree that the Democrats only had 60 votes for limited portions in 2009 we can talk otherwise, don't care to talk with someone who doesn't acknowledge the facts.

If anyone in the right wing lunatic fringe would like to snivel about "oversampling", please take your complaints to the American people: they represent the voting bloc that is turning away from your failed candidate and his hateful sidekick.

wait you mean Insane whatever his name is, is not totally unravelled and you're talking about right wing lunatic fringe? as for the oversampling like i said previously a simple I don't know would have sufficed. Because the rest of your post is truly irrelevant to that question.

and I failed Sally? I blame your personality on some sort of arrested development in your adolescent years.

harley guy, good point but when you look at whats driving the national dept...

washingtonpost.com/business/economy/adding-to-the-deficit-bush-vs-obama/2012/01/31/gIQAQ0kFgQ_graphic.html

offthechartsblog.org/what%E2%80%99s-driving-projected-debt/

yea, i'd blame President Obama too. knowing that its' conservative policy sinking us.

Scott,

Interest on our national debt was $196 billion out of a budget of $3,456 billion in the 2010 budget. That is closer to 6%, not the 33% figure you cite.

In case you haven't been following it, 10 year Treasury bonds are being sold now for 0% interest and have been for the past year or so. So, we have been expanding our debt with 0% interest loans from 70% American unused wealth and 30% other unused wealth. In a time of slow economic growth, most of the wealth the rich have accumulated sits with virtually no alternative use than to finance government deficit spending which is generally used to stimulate the economy so this unused wealth can be used to expand production, distribution, and retail activities in a more rapidly growing economy.

24% of our national income is now earned by the top 1% (same as 1929), up from 10% in 1980. Raising taxes on the rich will decrease the amount of money our nation has to borrow from them creating no difference in economic growth contrary to what you hear Republicans mistakenly claim. It will reduce our national debt which in the future we may have to pay more interest on when the economy is expanding more rapidly.

Let's see - Grover Norquist has never been elected to a post in our government. So why does he have such total control of the Republican Party? That should make everyone step back for a moment and figure this guy and his agenda out.

He represents himself and his big money backers - no one else. Or does he? How much do foreign entities pay him for his destruction of our country? Whose pocket is he in?

We didn't elect him to run any part of our country - so why is he allowed such power? When you look up the work "brainwash" my guess is you'll find his photo next to it.

Yet, amazingly, the radical righties march lockstep to every command he gives. This should truly frighten people - of both parties! He is the puppet master and every little Republican - who wants an office - has to dance to whatever tune he plays. Be very aware of who this man is and what his real agenda for our country is.

Interesting enough, his wife was born into a Palestinian Muslim family.

Obama/Biden 2012

DCIA - My preference would be to have a completely clean progressive tax code for all and perhaps not tax the first 15-20K of income for all. Tax all other income as income etc. But it's apparent no politician is willing to take that leap.

I'm not an expert on the tax code and honestly since I am middle class don't know what the working poor pay. I could live with what you are saying but agree that a candidate espousing that would not get one vote. I think that the deductions child, home mortgage, energy deductions should stay in place for the working poor. Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment, but for the middle class there has to be a time where they lose those deductions.

Again the easiest thing to do is nothing and then the middle class and the rich go back to the Clinton era rates. Extend the tax deductions to the working poor but that's it.

The extreme partisianship that goes on over 3 to 4% of a rate hike is crazy. Even Obama's plan to tax corporations at 28% is seen as heresy by the GOP who favor 25%. Shakes head.

perhaps not tax the first 15-20K of income for all. That is the people The Republicans want to tax. Boehner needs to take a Bromide or some Exlax. Even his Tea Party sqaundrels voted for SEQUESTRATION, figuring they would be able to force the Democrats to cave in the lame duck session and give the republicans 100% of what they want. Remember, that the Republicans got 100% of what they wanted between 2000 and 2006. What was the result? Continuous job losses from 2001-2008. A recession from 2007-2008. Who was in office in 2007-2008? That would be George W. Bush, John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan. Then in 2010, the silent majority sat on their duffs and 84 members of the Tea Party came into the House and Senate. No experience, no plan, EXCEPT to destroy America as we know it. How do you balance your budget at home? You get a 2nd job, your spouse gets a job or 2nd job, you cut expenses. What do Republicans do? INCREASE spending, CUT taxes, fight two unfunded wars, try to gut regulations, buy military equipment the Military neither wants nor needs. How to pay for it? Cut every program for the poor, mothers, fire Federal, State, County, and city workers. Pass laws to make an unborn child a person. Block normally eligible Americans from exercising their right to vote.

as for the oversampling like i said previously

If you are making the claim it is up to you to support it. As Christopher Hitchens said, "Assertions made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

The fact you have no way of defending your blithering ravings makes it clear they can be ignored as being without any substance or value.

All you teatards, birthers, flat earthers, religious fanatics, mindless dittoheads, evolution deniers, Fox noise cultist, conspiracy theorist, gun crazies and all around 15^th century Republicans better get used to President Obama because he's not leaving office until January 2017. Mitt Romney is one of the most worthless collection of candidates in the history of this nation with no ideas to fix anything other than the failed policies of the past. Talking about In God We Trust on money, birth control, birth certificates, teleprompters, college transcripts and wars on religion while yelling socialist and Marxist over and over doesn’t attract many voters. And if you don’t come up with some new ideas and find an entirely new group of leaders, a Democrat will win in 2016.

Yellowdog -- I'm middle class as well. But if you look over the report on Income inequality and pay particular attention to the working poor/poor you will start to understand just how dire their plight is. Until we fundamentally change how we approach poverty we must take care to not make their plight worse.

The extreme partisianship that goes on over 3 to 4% of a rate hike is crazy. Even Obama's plan to tax corporations at 28% is seen as heresy by the GOP who favor 25%. Shakes head.

Agreed! Take care.

I love how Democrats want to blame Congress,

Someone is in denial of Congress and their 14% approval rating. Let me guess, you're one of those in the 14% who approve. :D

Brianb - you are totally wrong. President Obama had a filibuster proof congress for a scant 44 days.

Obama/Biden 2012

brianb956

See, this is exactly what I am talking about. Liberals do nothing but blame, blame, blame.

This just gets sillier and sillier. Willard Mittens RMoney constantly blames President Obama for the bad economy caused by the Bush wars, the Bush tax cuts, the Bush unfunded drug mandage, and the inevitable Bush Recession that ended Bush's eight disastrous years as president. Now Romney is even blaming Obama for the Chicago teachers' strike. But according to brianb956, it's "liberals" who blame blame blame. The problem is that Republicons refuse to take responsibility for the serious damage that their crackpot ideology has done to America and try to shift the blame for their own incompetence on others.

Tell me Houston, what did the democrats do during the first two years of Obama's presidency? Did they add to the deficits, or take away from them? Did Obama, or did Obama not extend the Bush tax cuts? How can you sit there and blame republicans only when the democrats are just as culpable?

One other thing Houston... if Obama is this great president, how come he couldn't overcome the republicans? What happened in 2010 that changed the dynamics of politics? It appears as though more people chose the side of the republicans than they did with the democrats... ever ask yourself why?

true but i never made that claim

If you were asking, then the answer is there was no oversampling. If you choose not to accept that point, you need to come up with more than a sub-adolescent "leg humping" remark to support it.

Methodology of polls showing president Obama leading Romney:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/postabcpoll_20120909.html

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/09/10/rel10a.pdf

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

http://www.gallup.com/poll/150743/Obama-Romney.aspx

Caesar, it isn't related to the article, but it would tell a lot about where you get your false information from? I guess it is just like don't give your tax returns is to not fessing up to the truth. Oh, before you say that Obama needs to give his college records please note that no candidate has had to do that or will. Sources and tax returns are relevant!

Oh My God! There is hope! My neighbor who is in the top 5% and a life long republican just told me with the Romney attack and Paul attack on Obama for not stepping in to the Chicago Teacher's Strike was the last straw. He's voting for a Democrat in November. There were many other reasons given like , "No specifics as to how he was going to create 12,000,000 jobs and wanting to have us step into Syria for another war! He's been my neighbor for 30 years and always had a republican presidential sign on his lawn. Some republicans do have brains!

. . . .

Woodward pushed back at the notion that his book will be used by Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and other political foes to make the point that Obama was in over his head. His book, he told Sawyer, is a "legal wiretap," not an attempt to assign blame for a missed opportunity.

"I am not delivering that ammunition. I am trying to describe what happened … I also make the point that Speaker Boehner was responsible," Woodward said. "He had a partner, a dancing partner. He has the Republicans in on this. … I can't simplify it or make a judgment. What I can do is provide that wiretap."

. . . .

#.UE-eMbJlSsk

While no one likes taxes, we're in a hole thanks to the Bush Crime Syndicate and their base (war profiteers, contractors, Bankers, corporate cronies, wall street brokers, and kow towing idiot media sluts). And yes Obama raised the deficit while cleaning up where the previous administration had their drunken war orgy. But he did it at a lower percentage than the Bushies by far.

Time to suck it up, pay your part, preserve the social contract and bring our military home where possible.

I accidentally left in this stuff from brianbnumbers in my last post without putting it in quotes. I don't want anyone to think I originated his idiocy, but I might as well answer it:

Tell me Houston, what did the democrats do during the first two years of Obama's presidency? Did they add to the deficits, or take away from them?

Did I mention the Bush wars, the Bush tax cuts, and the Bush Recession? The Bush tax cuts, which never should have been made in the first place, couldn't be revoked in the depth of the worst recession in 70 years.

One other thing Houston... if Obama is this great president, how come he couldn't overcome the republicans?

Uh, because he's not a dictator? The Republicans won control of Congress, and there's not much Obama could do with a crowd of crazies whose only goal was preventing Obama from accomplishing anything. That's why all that Obama accomplished came before the Repubs took control in 2011, and by executive orders afterwards.

Posting again as link didn't appear.

. . . .

Woodward pushed back at the notion that his book will be used by Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and other political foes to make the point that Obama was in over his head. His book, he told Sawyer, is a "legal wiretap," not an attempt to assign blame for a missed opportunity.

"I am not delivering that ammunition. I am trying to describe what happened … I also make the point that Speaker Boehner was responsible," Woodward said."He had a partner, a dancing partner. He has the Republicans in on this. … I can't simplify it or make a judgment. What I can do is provide that wiretap."

. . . .

---abcnews.go.com/Politics/bob-woodward-gaps-president-obamas-leadership-contributed-debt/story?id=17183930#.UE-eMbJlSsk

I don't know why you argue so. I think all of our Politicans are it desperate need of being replaced, FIRED and then term limits. America, some day we are going to be like Syria if we don't stop this. Another 10 years and we'll be the United States of Mexico. Of course Boehner does'nt think they can get along, both parties are so affraid one is going to pocket something the other missed. I vote to fire every last one of them. If you don't do the job, @ least have a little dignity and quit. Sorry boys and girls, no entitlements for you all either. All politicians should be evaluated for job performance, come up short pack up your belongings and get a real job.

"Boehner 'not confident at all' fiscal cliff can be avoided"

Well, you would think, having done his utmost to get things to this sorry state, Mr. Boehner would have a better idea of how it would end.

Here's the real issue, does anyone KNOW what the effect of the sequestration will be ?

the actual cuts amount to $1.2 TRILLION over 9 years or about $109BILLION PER YEAR ($ 133 BILLION if you include interest.) That is only 3% of the federal budget.

I agree, let them be. Everyone wants cuts, let the cuts take place.

No one wants to raise taxes, let the tax cuts expire and let whoever wants to cut them justify them and sell them to the public.

For that matter, set the top rates at 75% for those making over $5,000,000 per year and adjusting down to where those making $250,000 are taxed at 35%. Go back to the Eisenhower tax laws and tax rates for that matter. Get rid of S corporations and LLC's taxed as partnerships. Tax 'em all as corporations. You want to be a separate person, you get taxed twice, once for each person. "Corporations are people to, my friend."

"The House has done its job on both the sequester and the looming tax hikes that will cost our economy some 700,000 jobs," the Republican speaker continued. "The Senate at some point has to act. On both of these where's the president? Where's the leadership? Absent without leave."

Yea, if by job you mean renege on the deal that YOU agreed to when YOU held up the debt ceiling vote in last years. Let's not forget how the deals gave you "98% of what [you] wanted!!!" Oh and Boehner, the President did his part; by standing up to you and your obstructionist Tea Party caucus, you bastards are gonna get up close and personal with the fire. You can always bail out, but that means breaking your pledge to ol' Grover....

Caesar Augustus-

The GOP/Tea Wacko's does not have a problem with the unequal distribution of wealth in the United States, which is comparable to that seen in developing countries like Rwanda and Nepal in national rankings.

How do you redistribute wealth? How did that work for Russia or Cuba, China? Trading one set of despots for another? No, it's troglodytes as yourself that see it as a one party issue. HA!

Unfortunately, you fail to state any non-communist nation that engaged in wealth redistribution. Let me give a few others off the top of my head: Great Britain, France, Germany, Poland, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Canada, Spain, Italy, and the United States. Yes, every country with a progressive tax code redistributes wealth, whether you like it or not. And interestingly with America, even with our progressive tax code wealth has been redistributed upward by 30 years of failed Reaganomics. Tax cuts for the wealthy do not produce jobs; they only lead to higher economic inequality and more periodic investment bubbles. Ever thought of why we have had so many speculation bubbles in the past 30 years???? Because we give tax breaks to the wealthy and tax investment at a super-low rate, encouraging over-investing and speculation, which leads to bubbles that eventually have to burst.

Ladies and gentlemen, liberals and so-called "fiscal conservatives," I think it is in both of our interests as Americans to simply let Congress do nothing and let the fiscal cliff happen now. Conservatives, you have been bitching about the deficit since Obama took office (even though you had little to say when Bush racked it up), and have stated that America will need to go through a time of pain and sacrifice in order to fix our fiscal picture; this is the time to do it. The post-cliff recession will only last half a year, and the debt will shrink as a share of GDP over the next 15 years. It also includes some very severe cuts on social programs that we liberals enjoy, so consider this deficit-reduction package a real compromise. My fellow liberals, we cannot continue to say that we just have to raise taxes on the rich to fix the budget; the middle class need to have a share in this as well. We have fought so long and hard for additional revenue, and the repeal of the Bush tax cuts will do much to reduce the deficit. Besides, most of the tax cuts went to the top 20%, and so letting them all expire would have a marginal impact on the rest of America. And once this fiscal cliff balances our medium-term fiscal outlook, we can finally shut up those hypocritical deficit hawks and focus all our energies on fixing the economy.

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

Empress - So that's why you won't vote for Obama? You're a liar - you would never have voted for Obama. Anyone who would even think of pulling a lever for Romney was NEVER voting Obama. You'll vote for a liar and a cheat instead!

Obama/Biden 2012

then the last NBC poll that stated they over sampled Democrats was false?

Citation needed, little guy.

True, I never did. Obama is too much of a Republican in too many ways. That was evident for quite some time, even in his 2004 speech. He should never have been nominated. The Democrats have lost their identity as a party. I recently decided to change my voter registration to Independent.

It may perhaps be better the Dems lose this round; then perhaps, they will nominate a real Democrat.

Caesar, Ii wish you would be as Objective about the daily lies on FOX and the opinions, are one sided, that flood FOX's reporting and talk reporting as you are to a poll by NBC! They have done a number on your brain man! So sad! Remember i was a republican until Reagan and now he would be a moderate by the extremes of the republican party!

Every member of the Tea Party should hang their head in shame for further jeopardizing the future of our country by giving the axe to good men and women in Congress, both Republican and Democrats, who were willing to work for a compromise. This fanatical fringe group that operates by playing on the fears of uneducated Americans has put a clamp on every effort President Obama has made to fix this nation's huge problems, and has crippled the GOP until it is only a shadow of the Grand Old Party it used to be.

People everywhere should speak out loudly against these close-minded, bigoted individuals and their narrow-thinking party.

When I read all of this from both sides, it is evident how facts play no role for most of you. And this discourse is a mirror of why nothing gets done in DC. Lies, rhetoric,nasty name calling.

Maybe you all are the problem.

Has anyone not noticed that the "THE INSANE CRACKER PARTY" is merely the Obama for reelection committee in disguise? They have ALL the "so called" facts on any issue that could possibly appear on this forum and the Obama supporters are filled with the intense feelings of euphoria.

The two major political parties have explained their vision of the role of government.

One party's vision is that society and the government are intertwined and should complement each other. This vision believes in the "one for all, and all for one" approach.

One political vision is a federalist vision, where states rights trump the federal government bodies of the presidential, legislative and judicial branches. This vision sees society and government as separate from one another. This vision takes an "everyman on his own" approach.

This vision of the governments role was asked and answered during the 1860s.

One vision is the correct vision. We must look at our nation as a whole, not as fifty separate entities. Take for an example this planet Earth. Every aspect of it is fully integrated. Take the human body for another example. Each of these examples have evolved with time as a whole, not as parts.

The approach to society and government that was started by our Founding Fathers must evolve if it is to survive and continue. We must become "whole" rather than "parts". Society as we know it is much different than that known by the Founding Fathers and in so much, it must evolve, not devolve.

We must move forward, away from the "me first" creed and the culture of greed expressed today by one vision, towards the culture of the "we are all in this together" vision, and must look to becoming whole and complete.

The republican "greed machine", and some democrats, just amaze the hell outta me. Consumerism is the fundamental basis for any economy. There can only be consumerism if Consumers have the money to buy consumables. Only alternatives to consumerism are " the waging of war" and to some degree, the production and ogling of art. The President and Congress, at some point, has to get serious about properly rebuilding the countries economy. It's the main reason we elect the sons-a-bitches. Restore the "Clinton" tax rates on those who make $250,000 a year. Get some revenue balance started. Raise the tax rates on the investment industry. 15% on capital gains my ass! Raise these to a minimun of 35%. All can say it's not possible, but the country must find ways and means to stop these goofy trade agreements, that allow products to be made in places like China and India, using labor at .50 cents an hour, then sent here for sale to consumers here, who have to buy the sh^t on credit since they have no jobs. What the gwaddamn hell is wrong with the fools who thought this up? Look around the country people! You too politicians, and neo-cons. How's it working out for you?

Quit cutting and pasting comments over and over again. Give someone else a chance to post. Undoubtedly Newsvine needs some more rules of their own.

Let the sequester begin.

One thing I'm tired of is Boehnor trying to wiggle out of what he couldn't sell to the tea party republicans in the house. Shall we have a replay of events that happen in July-August 2011:

Simple debt ceiling vote is hijacked by republicans desperately looking for a way to extend the bush tax cuts as well as adding a constitutional amendment to have a balanced budget passed every year and other job killing ideas. They continually ask the president for "his plan" to deal with spending cuts and balancing the budget without offering a plan of their own.

President calls up the leaders of the House and Senate to the White House. All republicans abruptly "walk out" of negotiations citing that tax increases of "any kind" are not acceptable. They wouldn't even entertain the idea while still stating the President doesn't have a plan other than raising taxes. They even urged the president to come down to the Capital to work out a deal.

Boehnor, realizing the real issue and trying to be a grownup, heads to the White House to work out a deal with the president and succeeds with the "grand bargain" which, if approved would have cut $4 trillion off the deficit in 8-10 years by closing loopholes, targeted tax increases as well as spending cuts to several social programs. (remember $10 cut for every $1 revenue)

Boehnor goes back and attempts to "sell" the plan to republicans and is met with stiff resistance. Was even told to either "get in line or get replace". Boehnor quickly comes out and denies there was a deal to begin with and that the President "made up the whole thing", hence the deal that was passed with the "super committee" to target cuts so the the bill could be paid for.

NOW, he's looking for the President (well blaming) to bail him out again by talking about "leadership". If he would have "LED" in the first place and had his party agree to the grand bargain, the country would be recovering faster than we are now AND would be creating more jobs that we are now. What's really funny is how he is quick to "quote" from a book but not look at the real reason of failure which is HIS inability as speaker, to convince his party to "do the right thing" for our country.

Now he wants us to listen to him talk about someone else being a failure???? Pot meet Kettle.

If you want to make a suggestion, why don't you ask Congress and the President to stop campaigning and head back to Washington to handle the business of this nation?

@dmd .. why? So that Boehner can cut another deal that he can't deliver on? The Tea Party wing of the GOP isn't interested in discussions or compromises ... its "our way, or we'll destroy the country" -- the nuclear option. They're as scary and unpredictable as the Iranian mullahs. I guess that shouldn't be surprising. Extremists tend to be very much alike.

The point of the statement is that everyone is complaining about Boehner, but he is only one Representative, it takes the whole Congress and the President in order to solve the problem. Further the budget comes from the Office the President to start with so Congress is attempting to cover the short fall of the President's failed budget in the first place. I mean are you really going to tell me that Obama and staff did not know this was coming. It is called planning, you know you create a plan to address something and then you address it according to the plan.

But Obama does not like to plan he likes to react, after we get a reduced credit rating then he will come back to Washington and act. Really the choice is very simple, if Obama gets elected nothing gets done for another 4 years. The house is Republican and the Senate will be after the election. If Romney gets elected we might have a fighting chance to get somewhere because he will have a Congress that at least he can work with. All this talk about what these two are going to do boils down to that simple fact.

As to comment about compromise: before the "Tea Party" as you put it, there was a Congress of Democrats that where unwilling to compromise over a health care plan that the majority of Americans do not want. Do you remember that or do you just need something to blame on the Republicans? Further your comparison of "Tea Party" persons to "Iranian mullahs" is absurd but I guess you have to make that comparison in order to scare the public to the polls.

If Obama is re-elected, even he projects that we will have a crippling National Debt of $20.4 Trillion by 2016 - more than double the $9.986 Trillion at the end of fiscal 2008 (these figures are from Obama's official 2013 Budget). Link is below - See Table 7.1

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

COinFL

Insane Cracker Party -- Are you a conservative pretending to be a liberal in order to make liberals look bad, or are you really liberal? Either way, you can't just make stuff up. Doesn't matter what "side" you're on.

COinFL,

What are you talking about? Republicans, Romney/Ryan included, lie constantly. What planet do you live on?

"The fiscal cliff represents the combined impact of the inability this term in Congress to resolve the future of the Bush tax cuts, which are set to expire at the end of this year"

Excuse me, but the 'Bush tax cuts' expired at the end of 2010 - as scheduled.

These are now the Obama tax cuts, since it was HE that approved their extension.

LOL....The cry baby is trying to get some camera time. Just ignore him, he'll go away, have a good cry, than come back.

OBAMA/BIDEN....2012!!!!

Boehner, If you have any respect for the oath you took, then you would man up and step down as speaker of the house... You have achieved nothing in the two plus years as speaker...

Go back to tending bar and sweeping sawdust off the floor, you can have yourself a beer to cry on... It is disgraceful that you as speaker has helped in bringing this country to a stand still... You are nothing more than a pupit to the tea party...

Man up and do the country a favor... Quit...

Mr. boehner, please remind us just how long you have been in congress, and then tell us again how none of this is your fault.

Boner actually had a deal with the president, but Cantor and the teabaggers refused to go along with it. I'm sure he shed many a tear over that. So where is the leadership Mr. Boner, and where are the jobs?

"Boehner 'not confident at all' fiscal cliff can be avoided"

Boehner is just being himself, a bonehead....he is proof that smokes, right wing ideology and too much sun are actually harzadous to your health...

The top 2% of "wage earners" own over 50% of the wealth, if you have a job with benefits you owe those perks to UNIONS. Do your kids go to public schools? Do use the roads to get to and from work? How long do you go without electricity when it is knocked out by a storm? in 2011- IN TOTAL for the ENTIRE country of Germany the power was out for 12 MINUTES!! Don't rant about who pays what, that is a mute point. YOU should be screaming about how the money is spent and for whom and for what. Cheney made sure the Pentagon spent money on contractors, FOR PROFIT COMPANIES THAT HELPED TO SPEND THIS COUNTRY INTO DEBT AND BECAUSE OF THOSE CONTRACTORS WHO LET UNTRAINED IRAQUI PEOPLE BUILD CAMPS FOR OUR AMERICAN TROOPS-MANY AMERICANS WERE KILLED "NON COMBAT", in other words, electrocuted in the shower. STFU yourself, grow a heart, and stop worrying about YOU!!!

PRO Business -- The top 20%

OWN 85%

of the wealth in this country.

They CAN AFFORD to pay more taxes. Most are not even paying a 15% rate.

Just ask Romney how it's done.

The problem crying Speaker Tan Man is your total lack of leadership ability. You can't even keep your own troops in line. I doubt you could lead a group of horny sailors into a brothel. You're the poorest excuse for a Speaker of the House in the last 100 years.

Probusiness, the top 1% already own 42% of the wealth. So what is your point? The bottom that owns 5% of the wealth should foot the bill? Get real and stop the defense of the greedy top 1%

This is the GOP agenda of which they are so proud:

1. Tax Policy: Tax poor and working people but not the rich;

2. Wage Policy: Encourage wages in the U.S. to fall to third world levels;

3. Trade Policy: Pass trade laws that make it easy for companies to send jobs overseas;

4. Healthcare Policy: Pass laws that enable only insurance companies to control who gets health care (including seniors) and who doesn’t

5. Education Policy: Replace public education with out of pocket private schools and home schooling;

6. Infrastructure Policy: Refuse to invest in crumbling public infrastructure such as highways, bridges, and sewer systems;

7. Environmental Policy: Pass laws and weaken regulations that enable companies to pollute the environment;

8. Energy Policy: Pass laws that enable gas and oil production and prices to be controlled by a few large companies; Make sure that there is no longer any research or work on alternative energy sources; Keep defense spending high to protect non domestic oil production;

9. Civil Rights policy: Repress rights for women and minorities and repress voting participation;

10. Social Policy: Divide the American people on cultural issues (religion, sexual orientation, gun rights, etc);

11. Political Method: Instill fear in the American public through manufactured crises and created "boogeymen". Then attack political opponents by claiming to be more "patriotic" and the better keeper of "American Values" than they.

12. Voter Suppression: making it more difficult if not impossible for literally millions of ELIGIBLE voters to cast their ballots, which is flagrant vote tampering and corruption.

Why do you support the GOP?

I was ready to say, here they go again, over the edge. It makes our side look as crazy as they are...

But you know what? I don't find a single fault with what you've written here. If the Right wants to refute it, I'd be happy to hear it point by point from someone who:

A: Believes in Science

B: Isn't a lunatic Fundie

C: Doesn't have the delusion they will one day be one of the Kochs.

TO: Precious'sMom who wrote:

"I DONT GIVE A SH*T what happens. As long as I keep all the things to which I'm ENTITLED THAT 'BAMA PROMISED ME!..."

It's NOT what President Obama promised us so much as it is what WE ALREADY PAID FOR.

Because some Republicans paid nothing into Social Security and Medicare they don't want to understand that FACT that some of us pre-paid, in advance, for our retirement through these programs.

That being said, I bet we can find more money to pay down the debt and the deficit if we raid Republicans' 401k's and rich folks' retirement plans than we can trying to go into the middle class's Social Security and Medicare.

Yeah, let's "steal from the rich, and give to the poor" instead letting the "rich" steal from us, AGAIN.

Obama/Biden 2012

Again, liberals don't have a problem with FACTS - simply push them aside. I listed INCOME distribution and TAX distribution. For all you liberals who claim the "rich" do not pay their "fair share" let me remind you - only income is taxed. Only the uninformed would start talking about "wealth".

Wealth and income are two different things but, okay, you uninformed want to talk about wealth then lets talk about wealth.

Two people each make $50,000 a year - let's see what happens after 20 years. First person spends every penny of every check on beer, cigarettes, condoms, and Pizza Hut. Twenty years later the first person has no savings, rents an apartment, has no car, and rides the bus to work. The second saves diligently and, after 20 years, owns free and clear a house worth $500,000, has $250,000 in a 401k, and $100,000 in savings. Are you REALLY going to tell me we should start taxing wealth? Are you REALLY going to be so uninformed as to say "fair" means for those who scraped and saved so they had money to spend LATER in life should pay tax on what they DIDN'T spend??

You see this is typical uninformed liberal thinking - that ANY wealth should also be redistributed to them. Sorry, if you want to save money then YOU work for it and save money. THIS is why we don't tax "wealth" - because if you tax wealth then there is no incentive to forgo spending TODAY to have money to spend TOMORROW. That is why we have an INCOME tax and not a "wealth" tax. Try to stay on topic next time and don't penalize "wealth" for those who actually use their income wisely.

Probusiness - your number are Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) after all deductions. It's not a true representation of wealth, only taxable income.

Matthew: It is data from the Internal Revenue Service. You make it sound like a deduction is "bad", "illegal", or "wrong". They are not. These are deductions the tax code allows - if you don't like deductions then complain to your Representatives. But for our discussion is irrelevant. These are tax filings and the incomes are the legal Adjusted Gross Incomes. To try and say otherwise is simply a deflection.

So with the LEGALLY submitted IRS Income Tax forms the data is what it is and the wealthy pay significantly more income tax as a percentage of income than those with significantly less income. It is what it is and if you don't like it call your representative or call the IRS and complain. But to complain about what your representatives allow and the IRS accepts is a mute point.

PRO Business -- Look lady, how do you think they accumulate that wealth? Income. Tax income appropriately on a progressive level.

You math is about as sketchy as Romney's. It would be impossible for a person making 50K a year to have saved and accumulated that much after 20 years. That's a fact.

Grover Norquist has hamstrung every Republican who signed their pledge, much like Hitler made every Nazi sign a loyalty pledge to him. Of course, there's no similarities here.

It makes me sick when I hear some idiot yell, "we should run the government like a business!". Well, let's do exactly that! I can't tell you how many budgets I prepared in my 35 years in the corporate world. A budget is made up of two main components; REVENUE and EXPENSES. Since I was part of sales and marketing, it was my job to forecast anticipated revenues for the budget year. Then, all department heads (including mine) built their expense budgets based on the revenue forecast. If the forecast missed, it was my head that was on the block. If profits ran into a problem during the year, we went back to the drawing boards and redid the numbers ON BOTH SIDES OF THE LEDGER.

Now, here's a bunch claiming to be businessmen who want to build a budget that CANNOT EVEN MENTION the word revenue. If they do, they're fired! That's what the Norquist pledge has gotten you tea party zealots and the rest of the Republicans into. What kind of businesses were you guys involved in?

So it's not that the Republicans won't enter into bi-partisan discussions on a budget - they're prohibited from doing it by an unelected outsider who has manipulated and brainwashed his way into a position where he can hold the government of the United States hostage, and the Republican Party handed him the keys to the vault.

This is the United States??? This is Democracy????

C'mon Joe and the rest of you bigmouths - even you can't be that blindly stupid!

TO: ProBusiness who wrote:

"Again, liberals don't have a problem with FACTS - simply push them aside..."

Republicans wouldn't know a "fact" OR the "truth" if it kicked their a$$e$ all around the block.

Republicans still haven't accepted the FACT that it was George "Curveball" Bush and his Republican Administration that crashed the entire United States Economy with their "cut taxes and borrow and spend approach".

To this very day, Republicans are still threatening War with Iran and are pushing Mitt Robme toward War with Iran, all while Republicans declare the United States to be "bankrupt".

Obama/Biden 2012

Insane: I don't care what the "rich" make and they paid the appropriate and higher percentage of their income than those who make less.

I swear I don't understand the hatred for those that succeed? There used to be a time in this country where people admired success and THRIVED themselves to be successful. Now we despise successful people and even though the top 10% of taxpayers pay over 70% of ALL income taxes you STILL don't think its enough? How much should the top 10% of taxpayers pay in total income taxes collected? 80%? 90%? 100%?

How can you expect them to pay any MORE income taxes than they already do? When you add state taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, excise taxes, city taxes, etc. in some areas of the country (like New York City) some wealthy pay over 60% of their total income in taxes!! Do you think that is fair? For every dollar they make they get the "luxury" of 40 cents? And you call them evil? You think they should pay more?

Here is the difference between a Conservative and Liberal:

Two Conservatives standing on a corner and a man in a Rolls Royce drives by. One Conservative looks at the other and says "with hard work and sacrifice one of these days I will OWN a car like that!!"

Now Two Liberals standing on a corner and a man in a Rolls Royce drives by. One Liberal looks at the other and says "it is not FAIR that man is able to drive a car like that. He didn't build his wealth on his own and it is because of HIM I can't succeed. We need to find a way to take that man's car away from him."

Sad. Very sad that liberals have no drive to succeed anymore.

DKsouthern: Since you don't have any idea what our financial situation is I'll educate you. Just 5 years ago we had $2.3 Trillion a year coming in with tax revenues and was spending $2.8 Trillion. Yes we borrowed $500 billion and THAT is too much to borrow. Now we are STILL bringing in $2.3 Trillion a year in tax revenue but spending $3.8 Trillion.

What happened? Why did government spending go UP $1 Trillion? But now let's talk about your "taxing the rich". Even IF we increased the taxes as Obama wants on the rich, and further assume it does not negatively affect the economy which is nonsense, the increased tax revenue would only be about $65 billion - that is with a "B" - Billion. So if we are currently borrowing $1.5 Trillion a year and you got your wonderful "tax on the rich" now we would only have to borrow $1.35 Trillion. Wait - that really didn't make a difference - did it?

Let me tell you what has happened. This is like a husband makes $50,000 a year then in 2008 gets married. His wife starts spending $70,000 a year. The husband complains and the new wife says "I saw there was a part-time job at the corner grocery store - you need to take that job so we can have more revenue". But the husband reminds her that job would only allow him to add $1000 a year in additional revenue. This doesn't solve the problem and we have a SPENDING problem not a REVENUE problem.

In other words your hatred towards the rich is obvious but taxing the rich is like spitting in a bathtub. It is minimal at best. I could CONSIDER increasing taxes if we go back to our 2007 spending levels. This administration is like the wife in the story. You can't increase your spending by over 30% THEN ask to have someone else pay for it. Go back to 2007 spending levels of about $2.8 Trillion a year and THEN we can talk about tax increases on EVERYBODY to make up the difference. But to increase taxes on just a few that would not even make a dent and ALSO continue unsustainable spending is meaningless.

Cut the spending first THEN we can talk about tax increases on EVERYBODY to make up the difference.

Pro Business -- Did it ever occur to that some us just think a Rolls Royce is an utter WASTE of money? Really why is it people like you only find value in things like a Rolls Royce? Very telling.

ProBusiness,

Since you responded (sort of) to my post 2.25 I guess I have to waste another couple of minutes and respond to you. You took great offense at my "attack" on the rich because I hate them (your words). I suggest you go back and reread the post and you will note I never said one word about the rich or how I feel about them. What I talked about was the way Republicans have turned the keys of our government over to a bunch of guys who have demonstrated they are willing to do anything to take the reins of government away from the people. You don't believe me? These guys didn't get mega-rich by being stupid and making dubious investments. They ain't about to shell out over a Billion, with your B, and not expect to call the shots if their guy becomes president. What I'm telling you knucklehead, is that IF Romney gets in, he will be president of a puppet government. To the Koch Brothers et. al., that's just good business! And where do you think you or me or 330M (that's Million) Americans fit into their business plan? Only where it's of benefit to the brothers.

Now, I just don't think that's a very good situation for America to be in, and certainly not what the Founders had in mind. But apparently, you DO think so. Do you?

ProBusiness

Your tax figures do not include the following which are very regressive taxes:

Medicare 3.9%

Social Security 12.4% on income to $106,800

Excise Taxes (alcohol, tobacco,telephone, gasoline)

State Taxes (sales, income, gasoline)

Local Taxes (income, property, per capita)

Real Estate Taxes

If you factor in the basic cost of housing, food, transportation, health care expenses, utilities, and clothing into a household budget and exclude these basic necessities from taxable income which would seem fair to me, you will end up with surplus income. The rich's surplus income would probably be taxed at a lower rate than the working class's surplus income.

For example, the average household income in the US was around $52,000 in 2010. After subtracting the costs of housing $12,000, the cost of health care and insurance $12000, the cost of food $6000, the cost of utilities $3000, the cost of clothing $2000, the cost of property taxes $4000, the cost of transportation $4000, the cost of Medicare and Social Security (1/2 of 15.3%, employee share) $3978, you end up with $4022 to cover everything else. I will call this surplus income. If a family of 3 pays $3750 in federal taxes (based on withholding table), they are left with $272 for child care, vacations, entertainment, education, and savings. In this example, this household's surplus income would be taxed at a rate of 93%.

Now take someone with $1,000,000 in income. They can have greater household expenses, but their health care and insurance won't be that much more. They can't eat 5 times the food, although housing, clothing, and entertainment expenses can be way higher, but I would argue part of this is surplus income. So, for the sake of this argument, let's give them $200,000 towards necessities, leaving $800,000 in surplus income. At 26% of $1,000,000 income this million dollar earner would pay $260,000. If you calculate the tax rate on their surplus income , it would be 32.5%.

I believe that if you look at the tax rate in terms of after living expense net income (surplus income), you will see an entirely different picture of the fairness of our tax code. It seems to me that the million dollar earner should pay more tax and the $52,000 household should pay less.

@Matthew-2771918

AGI is NOT after 'ALL' deductions, it's before most all of them, such as those on Schedule A, etc.

ProBusiness

Insane: You just can't make up stuff as you go along. Here is the date (from Internal Revenue Service 2009 - the last year of full tax information)

Top 1% of taxpayers has 16.9% of Total Adjusted Gross Income but pay 36.7% of all income taxes (avg tax rate: 24.01%)

Unfortunately, that is not true. The top 1% control roughly 25% of all income in the United States (you might not be including capital gains). And either way, the reason why they pay more is because they have MADE more thanks to supply-side economics.

Top 10% of taxpayers has 43.2% of Total Adjusted Gross Income but pay 70.5% of all income taxes (avg tax rate: 18.05%)

Top 25% of taxpayers has 65.8% of Total Adjusted Gross Income but pay 87.3% of all income taxes (avg tax rate: 14.68%)

Top 50% of taxpayers has 86.5% of Total Adjusted Gross Income but pay 97.7% of all income taxes (avg tax rate: 12.50%)

Bottom 50% of taxpayers has 13.5% of Total Adjusted Gross Income but pay only 2.3% of all income taxes (avg tax rate: 1.85%)

Newsflash: poor people DO NOT MAKE enough money!!!! They have seen their wages stagnate and inflation increase. The inflation has pushed them below the tax brackets that they would have been had their incomes increased with productivity.

So tell me again about your nonsense that the rich don't pay their "fair share"? Tell me again how the rich are taking advantage of the middle and lower class? Funny how liberals never let something like FACTS get in the way..........

All we liberals want is a more equal society. The wealthiest Americans simply control too much income in the United States, and higher taxes are essentially how we should lower that amount. The OECD even conducted a study that stated that high income inequality depresses long-term growth. While we say "fair share" partially in order to "cover" our redistributionist plan to restore the country, I personally (and many other liberals) don't think 24% in taxes is enough for people making over $500,000 a year. I personally prefer a 76% top tax rate for those making over around $10 million, something in line with the tax rates in the 1970s.

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

The two major political parties have explained their vision of the role of government.

One party's vision is that society and the government are intertwined and should complement each other. This vision believes in the "one for all, and all for one" approach.

One political vision is a federalist vision, where states rights trump the federal government bodies of the presidential, legislative and judicial branches. This vision sees society and government as separate from one another. This vision takes an "everyman on his own" approach.

This vision of the governments role was asked and answered during the 1860s.

One vision is the correct vision. We must look at our nation as a whole, not as fifty separate entities. Take for an example this planet Earth. Every aspect of it is fully integrated. Take the human body for another example. Each of these examples have evolved with time as a whole, not as parts.

The approach to society and government that was started by our Founding Fathers must evolve if it is to survive and continue. We must become "whole" rather than "parts". Society as we know it is much different than that known by the Founding Fathers and in so much, it must evolve, not devolve.

We must move forward, away from the "me first" creed and the culture of greed expressed today by one vision, towards the culture of the "we are all in this together" vision, and must look to becoming whole and complete.

@shaak. What you prove is we are all taxed too much. I swear I do not know what happens to all this money and so I do not want my taxes raised until someone accounts for it all. I really do not want to pay for more GSA and appeals court parties.

And I agree with ProBusiness in his examples of the $50k person who saved and invested and now is expected to pay the figurative bills of someone who partied through their lives. Our aunt always had modest jobs..office manager, administrator of a nursing home and yet she accumulated about $400k in investments. We have paid out that money on her behalf to a nursing home since she is 91 and suffers from dementia. We worked thru college and grad school. Always lived on one income and saved the other for our sons' education, our grandson's education and our retirement. But now we always feel under fire from the left to have that savings redistributed to those who did not save, did not give up anything. I am tired of hearing that you cannot go to college unless you take out enormous loans or have someone else pay. I went to college with people who worked full time, had a family, still went to school. It was hard but no one there thought it should be given to them.

Federal income taxes are lower than they have ever been in your lifetime. Because the payroll tax has been temporarily lowered, taxes are definitely lower now than under Bush - for EVERYONE!!!!!! If the wealthy returned to the rates in use under Clinton, they would not suffer at all. The Clinton rates for the wealthy were much lower than the rates paid under Nixon, Ford, or Carter. Arithmetic matters!!! CLINTON WAS RIGHT. We had a surplus under Clinton, then W. fought two wars on credit and passed two tax cuts. By the time of his last budget (fiscal 2009 which began Oct. 1, 2008), we had a one trillion dollar deficit. It's not rocket science. You just have the bean counters project future incomes and multiply by a percentage for each group of earners. Obama has pledged not to raise taxes on those making under $250,000. Tax the rich at the 2001 rates, put a 25 cent per gallon tax on gasoline, cut the defense budget, eliminate agriculture subsidies and oil subsidies and you're back in the black in six or seven years IF the economy grows at 3%. But we cannot continue to grow the defense budget. We're spending close to a trillion dollars a year on defense and intelligence. Nobody else spends more than 20% of what we spend on defense. We need a new lean and mean Pentagon.

Amazing how many replied to my FACTUAL post with data directly from the IRS with disdain and distraction. From "I didn't say I hate the rich" then proceeded to explain why they hate the rich.

Then another takes a story referencing a Rolls Royce and completely missed the point. They speak specifically of Rolls Royce - I was referencing how the rich are hated and despised. I referenced the Rolls Royce as a symbolic representation of success - they criticize the Rolls Royce in particular. I can't help someone who can't even follow the "bouncing ball".

Then another tries to explain that the poor can't AFFORD taxes. Wait a minute!! If you live in this country you can afford to add at least $5 towards this great country. If you are so useless you cannot afford a cursory "thank you" for the luxury of living in this country then I can't help you either.

Then yet another clueless individual uses the excuse that the poor pay Medicare/etc. taxes. That wasn't the discussion. The discussion is liberals who say the rich don't pay enough income taxes - so I show the distribution of income taxes. Since even liberals can't dispute facts they move towards deflection. Sorry, intelligent people won't let that deflection work. The "rich" pay significantly more in income tax so next time Obama says "fair share" why don't you ask him specifically what he means by "fair share". How much is that?

Quiet One: Thanks for the clarification and you are absolutely right. AGI is BEFORE deductions!! Sorry, I am a Financial Analyst and also teach adjunct college Economics - but Accounting and Tax Preparation I am familiar with but don't work with regularly. I stand corrected:) AGI is BEFORE deductions!!

And then JUST when I have seen just about all the clueless comments the last one says that "the rich going back to the Clinton rate will not suffer at all". When EVERY Economics textbook in the country even states that increasing tax rates negatively affect Economic Growth and expansion decisions this clueless individual happens to think THEIR opinion overrules EVERY economist and EVERY economics textbook in this country. No reason to respond to a person who has no idea how an economy works.........

When the top 1% earns 24% of our national income after receiving many tax cuts over 30 years of trickle down economics, we suffer a huge financial crisis mainly the result of overly aggressive loaning from the top 1 % control of 42% of our national wealth to many people who could not afford the mortgages they were given. This represents the fact that when the rich have too much money and their customers (the middle class) don't have enough, the rich's investment options become severely limited.

Now, 10 year Treasury bonds are being sold at 0% interest. To increase taxes on the people who buy Treasury bonds at 0% interest will not hurt our economic growth at all. The increased tax revenue can be used to pay down the debt resulting in no change in what these rich people add to our economy by financing part of our national debt.

When I last studied macroeconomics in 1981 (continuing ed class with most students already full time 25-40 year olds working in business), the raging debate in our class revolved around trickle down economics. No one in our class including the professor could make any justification based on the macroeconomic principles we were studying to validate trickle down economics. We all concluded that it could not work to produce jobs since investment was not the problem in that economy. It was inflation and rising gas prices. Rising gas prices in the 1970's was fueling price increases as business refused to lower its profits to absorb their increased costs, but simply passed along the price of the increased cost of gasoline while adding a %age of increased profit. Their sales continue to climb as the baby boom moved into adulthood with the resulting increased demand for products and services. The structural component of our high oil use in our economy made this inflation very hard to deal with.

So, ProBusiness, I suggest that you review all those economic books you cite. The Laffer curve is a laugher (joke), trickle down economics doesn't work, and all that increased income and wealth the rich have derived from trickle down economics has not done what it was said to do, produce a budget surplus or create jobs for the middle class.

By the way, I have owned and operated a business for 38 years, and I know that the financial well-being of my customers (mainly middle class) affects my sales and consequently my success. I am proud of my success and I am sure you are proud of yours. But, we were conned with trickle down economics and the result was the richest 1% were able to increase their share of national income from 10% in 1980 to 24% now largely from reducing their taxes.

Now, the victim of a scam should get their money back. I think that is fair.

America should get some restitution from those who benefited from trickle down economics. Raise the tax rate back to Clinton's 1993 levels (18 million jobs and 4 balanced budget in 8 years resulted).

Boehner is a poor leader, who consistently cut deals with Obama, but was unable to get the base of his own party to go along. A good leader should be able to work with his own party, as well as with the opposition. Instead, Boehner comes across as pretty hapless. I'd rather Cantor lead the Republicans, because at least you know what you're getting instead of a weak-willed leader who talks a good game but is unable to deliver.

Michael L-2295838

And where have the deadlocks in Washington gotten us all? Just Grow up.

Yes with Canter you know where you stand. Never turn your back on that low life back stabbing weasel.

TO: Michael L-2295838 who wrote:

"Boehner is a poor leader, who consistently cut deals with Obama, but was unable to get the base of his own party to go along. A good leader should be able to work with his own party, as well as with the opposition. Instead, Boehner comes across as pretty hapless. I'd rather Cantor lead the Republicans..."

Actually, Eric Cantor IS leading the Republicans and Cantor is poised to remove John "Crybaby" Boehner from the Speakership if Republicans retain the House come November.

In the meantime, the Congressional Teagaggers deal with Cantor, not Boehner, because their whole theme is "NO COMPROMISE".

Obama/Biden 2012

OFF THE CLIFF! End the stranglehold the oath to Norquist has on our elected officials!

Being a "follower" instead of a "leader" is what Boehner is all about! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Anyone who allows a minuscule minority cult (Tea Party) to dictate to the vast majority of Americans, let alone congressmen, what the voting should be on bills proposed to help get us out of this mess, and to keep the government budget balanced EVERY year, is plain and simple a spineless coward.

He KNOWS he has to increase revenues, and he KNOWS that the only way to do this is not through trying to squeeze more blood out of the proverbial turnip (the Middle Class and working poor), but to tap into where the real money is (the wealthy and American-based corporations). He's not that stupid!! Is he??

Seems to me the last time we went through this little exercise, President Obama promised he'd cut spending $10 to every $1 in increased revenues (if a deal was struck to enact the Budget Control Act)....anyone with as much as a pea-sized brain would have jumped at that sweet deal. But nooooo....not Mr. Boehner! He caved in to the Grover Norquist Pledge Kids in Congress and said "no increased taxes". So, no deal was constructed by the BCA super-committee, and because of that, there will now be H-U-G-E cuts in defense spending, along with a myriad of other automatic spending cuts.

I'm convinced, more now than ever, that the conservatives in Congress WANT to see the country crash and burn. I mean, why not? They have all the money, they will lose billions, but still have billions left. It's the Middle Class who will be decimated and, for all intents and purposes, will be made extinct. Make no mistake, THEIR greed will be the downfall of this nation, not those whom they disdain.

Cantor is up for re-election, he has to get elected to become the Speaker of anything. I'm sure not voting for him.

Ursula,

Boehner and Cantor cannot control the teaparty. The party was so fractured at the end of 2008, they had to recruit the frindge-whacks that weren't allowed avoice for many years in the republican party. They took a big gamble when they"called up the troops" to fill in the numbers.

Most of these were elected in 2010 and need 5 years for a vested retirement. KarlRove and Norquist will not allow these puppets to compromise. Period!

Any deal before the elections is not in the playbook.

• !

Boehnor "not confident". I agree completely. The American people agree as well, which is why this Congress is less popular than Fidel Castro. Why would anybody be even remotely confident that this Congress would be able to achieve any big piece of legislation? Why would anybody be even remotely confident that John Boehnor could actually do his job and lead the House effectively? Why would anybody be even remotely confident that the freshman and house veterans in the Tea Party caucus would allow any negotiation or compromise?

There is one way out of this, Speaker Boehnor. Throw the Tea Party under the bus. Get whatever reasonable, responsible Republicans remain to sit down with the Democratic minority and work out a plan that can pass the entire House and that the Senate can work with. Not a plan which can pass the Republican majority, but a plan the Congressional majority can get behind. But no, that would probably cost you your speakership, so I'm sure you won't do that.

As much as I'd like it to be so, the upcoming elections are not likely to relieve you of your gavel, Mister Speaker, so just punting the issue for a few months into 2013 isn't going to help. I know you and your compatriots are desperately hoping for Mitt Romney to win the White House so that your political goals would no longer require you to oppose any effort to do what is best for America, but the odds aren't pointing that way at the moment either. It's time to choose: do you love America more than you fear the Tea Party? Do you?

Tom - somehow they have to get leadership back from Norquist. He will destroy the country and not blink twice. In fact, I think that's his goal. I'd love to know who pays him under the table. I'd look at Iran for starters -or the Saudis!

Obama/Biden 2012

Seeking,

Well I guess you're right there. But Norquist is just a point man for big supporters. His pledge form lists the Heritege foundation at the top.

Tom, he is but who is really pulling his strings?

Tom and Seeking,

You need look no further than the hundreds of millions being poured into the Romney coffers. Joe from Outer Space and the others who came with him on the mother ship actually believe Mitt Romney will stand up and think for himself if he's elected under those circumstances. A vote for Republicans at any level is a vote for a puppet government.

Seeking - According to CBS, Norquist is pulling all the strings. He attended Harvard with Deval Patrick, our current governor, and Norquist said that HE would rig the elections to keep a republican president in the whitehouse.

When asked what would happen if a democtrat was elected, his reply was:"I wouldn't allow him to govern as a democrat".

Smug confidence, much?

Obama/Biden2012

What a day for obama... -(1st..he sends $$$ 1 BILLION tax -dollars to Egypt ..-(2nd. he shuns the leader of Israel.. -(3rd..he has a jimmy carter experience with his mulism-broHOOD buddies.. -(4th..the Egypt USA compound is over ran and the US Flag is burned--obama will not salute it anyway... -(5th. Syria kills the USA ambassador and many more Americans.. -(6th.RA--.emmanual and the union thugs in Chicago stage a riot that puts children on the street when murders in chicago have escalated...(7th..nbc says credit for USA to be downgraded again. (8th.. Russian and cartel submarines invade the US undetected.. (9th. obamaDoNOTcare is the largest tax in world history, that NO ONE can afford...

yep, our prez is doing a great job...NO economy or jobs, NO foreign respect, NO concern for Americans being murdered by muslum-terrorist or by street thugs, NO security on the US border....Increases taxes on the middle class and kills Medicare--700 billion removed, cuts the pay to our TROOPS..

as Eastwood said, this craziness has got to stop!! WE the people hired you to do a job and you have FAILED..now WE will replace you!!

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Great to hear form you, LOVE your posts, keep up the good work !

LOVE your posts, keep up the good work !

Thanks for the shout-out Danno!

Good to know someone enjoys them! ;o)

"Did just fine" ? Obviously, you and REALITY are strangers genius ! There are 23.5 million unemployed or who have given up looking for a job. Under Obama's failed leadership. many will be dining on Alpo before long.

Obama has raised the national debt dramatically while having NO BUDGETS !

Obama's Stimulus failed and the "shovel-ready" jobs were a hollow promise.

Obama started his term with unemployment at 7.9%, and it has never been under 8.3% since that time. His "laser-like" vision on jobs was a broken promise.

The point is that the Federal government must tighten the belt just like everybody else. That is reality. Many state and local governments had to make far greater cuts than the 'fiscal cliff' these bastards are whining about.

Ray in Jax ABSOLUTLEY end tax cuts for $250,000 or more per year .

boehner can't seem to control the tbgrs and far right wing nuts for the Benefit of OUR Counrty - norquist and and the "others" are hurting our Country to benefit themselves..pathetic!

Get rid of ALL of these Obstructionist and Let's Move FORWARD!

Obama/Biden 2012 America's President!

not enough, end tax cut for ALL!

I agree end all the Bush tax cuts and while we are at it cut defense spending 25% right now and phase in another 25% over 5 years. Then raise the cap on medicare and FICA withholding.

r

edshoes4
Ray in Jax ABSOLUTLEY end tax cuts for $250,000 or more per year .

boehner can't seem to control the tbgrs and far right wing nuts for the Benefit of OUR Counrty - norquist and and the "others" are hurting our Country to benefit themselves..pathetic!

Get rid of ALL of these Obstructionist and Let's Move FORWARD!

Obama/Biden 2012 America's President!

Get rid of them? They keep multiplying. Remember 2010? The mood in the country is to trim the bloated federal budget. Whine all you want. The handouters are going into nuclear winter.

#5.1 - Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:23 PM EDT

The Tea Party's approval rating is below 18%, down from 45% in 2010.

The Weeper called them 'Knuckledraggers' for a reason!.......He can't get them to govern......He is powerless!

Vote the Democratic Ticket.....all the way, get rid of the Obstructionist TeaPeople!

Everybody hates Congress except their own rep. Tea Party only gets stronger.

don't you know that Dems take lobbyists's checks too?

I believe cry baby Boehner will get a rude awakening on the day after elections when he himself is voted out of office due to his Teabag policies.

We the people are tired of the Grand Obstructionist Party and the Corporate Fundamentalist Republican't teabagger party. I get the feeling those who think there will be a GOP landslide better look out that landslide may slide them out of office in November.

The military cuts are needed, actually I think the Military should be cut to 50 billion dollars a year and no more for the military budget and not one penny for wars unless a nation declares war on us.

Crybaby boehner, RESIGN and take Cantor with you!!!

And thats my opinion.

Teabag policies, I don't think so. This guy and his cronies have compiled a dept over 11 trillion dollars when they were in power during the George Bush era and now look at where we are at.

This is same guy that stood before the American people in 2001 and announced the job movement to China. Then he has audacity to come before the American people and tell that the Republicans will create more jobs. Haven't we heard the song and dance before people. Lets wake up and send these liars out on a rail.

But first tar and feather like our parents did back in the old days with lying politicians.

I'm not a Democrat or Republican, but an American, what are you?

TO: Cellisis who wrote:

"don't you know that Dems take lobbyists's checks too?"

Perhaps, but it doesn't show up as much in Democrats' legislation as it does with Republicans.

Maybe Republicans get bigger checks from lobbyists because once Republicans get a sniff of some Lobbyist cash, they come together like a blockade and won't let any legislation get through.

Now THAT's dedication, too bad Republicans are NOT "dedicated" to those of us who pay their salaries. It's more like Republicans are only dedicated to "the highest bidder".

Obama/Biden 2012

JEFF S,

I think you and I could become good buddies! I like the way you think and express yourself.

Good Faith! WTF, getting 99% of what you want isn't good enough. Don't talk to me about good faith because the GOP has none.

dangerfield

I'm afraid the answer to that is it will likely take a crisis of epic proportion, which is possible if not probable. Then they will either work together or kill each other. It's anyones guess.

LET"S VOTE OUT the lazy Congress OBSTRUCTIONIST.

Fire their a****. for NON - PREFORMANCE!

No benefits, NO pensions Goodbye boehner, can'tor,mcconell, ryan, etc

MOVE FORWARD!!!!

Obama/Biden 2012

Luckily, extreme positions have a way of being self-limiting. In this instance the Democratic process will do in the REpublicans if they don't perform their jobs bettter. As far as Mr. Boehner's prediction - if I were in a car without brakes huirtling down a mountain road and had an irrresistable urge to stomp on the gas pedal I would say I'd be fairly confident I wouldn't be able to avoid the cliff either.

Dangerfield, short of economic collapse who knows. out of the three response excluding mine, two were partisan hacks. But you are absolutely right, its a D, R and I (whatever party) issue. Its an American issue. As I said yesterday if things don't start changing for the better, a new not so bright age will be ushered in. History has a funny way repeating itself.

It's like the final scene of "Thelma and Louise"...

LOL its looking that way.

openmind266

You want to know what Dems have done to this country........ok, I'll give just a dose of it.

In job creation, 24yrs of Democratic governments have created 42M jobs as against 24m jobs created under GOP governance in 28yrs. How about that?

You know nothing. You don't just make things up.

Glenn you are correct, openmind266 - you don't really have an open mind and we can see that your blind hatred for anyone who sees the 1% for what they are greedy "Money grabbers"(reminds me of Fitz and the Tantrums). If you wonder why the working/middle class no longer respects the 1% you only have to look at bonner, canter, ryan, and bauchman. Their own greed feeds their need to survive. thanks, but not thanks, I don't believe in trickle down, never have, never will, been working everyday of my life for close to 40 years, never had anything good trickle down on my head or in my checkbook. Hope and change on the other hand, have worked very well for our working/middle class family, thanks for asking!

Well said just 24~! openminded must have tilted his head and whatever brains were there are now POOF!

openmind266 - Have you been asleep for the past 12 years. Let me recap before you go off and blame Democrats for the problems this country faces. The year 2000 Bush comes into office with a stunning surplus left to him by former President Clinton. He is told by Fed Chairman Greenspan that such a surplus is not necessary and Bush proceeds to give mainly the rich and corporations the first of two tax cuts. September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks kill nearly 3,000 citizens and Bush/Cheney immediately declare that Iraq is our enemy and proceed to beat the drums for war. March 2003 we attack Iraq and spend billions by taking loans to pay for it. 2005 Congress votes for Medicare Part D after holding the vote open for hours trying to get additional votes to pass again borrowing to cover the cost. 2006 Bush gives the second tax cut again benefiting the wealthy with no way to pay for these tax cuts. September 15, 2008 Lehman Bros collapses and takes the economy with it. Now you want to tell me again just exactly who destroyed this great nation and threw our economy over a cliff?

National debt increases have been insane under republican leadership. It takes the democrats to come in and clean up their mess. When are we going to learn to quit letting the greedy party of the rich get control?

You people are so blinded by your stupidity that it just amazes me that you can even find this web site. Just your information is just another talking point put out the the DNC. When are you people going to start looking at all the lies that are told by both parties and figure out that none of them give a crap about any of you. You have all these rich democrats crying about offshore accounts and your own head of the DNC has her own money offshore. John Kerry move his yacht to a neighboring state so he doesn't have to pay taxes on it in his home state they all lie and there isn't any of them that are any good so you people need to get a grip

openmind266

I see the truth irritates the hell out you. You're blindfolded by your open-mindedness to the lies told by the crazy right. Shot your trap if you don't have your facts correct.

laurie - Don't get me wrong I agree with your post 100% but both parties are at fault. A GOP congress put forward and Clinton signed the dilution of Glass-Steagall to ease the ability for investment banks to pick our pocket and gamble our savings. Clinton pushed for and passed NAFTA in the 90's to help open up our borders to trade and hurt American manufacturing.

What I mean to say is we are in trouble and even though it is alright to point at each other, I hope someone can see that we need more than that. I believe that the GOP with Tea party consent botched the Grand Bargain. I believe that if more of these "party first, me first" yahoos get elected they would gladly see us crash. With us on the cliff they will ask why Government can't balance the budget since they are "self made men" and can balance their own miniscule household checking accounts.

As a liberal I hope that the Dems win the house and Senate but that will not happen. Therefore, there needs to be some common ground found before the ground disappears. A Simpson Bowles debt commission vote in the lame duck session would give me hope.

TO: openmind266 who wrote:

"You need to get a grip on reality. You haven't a clue. You need to look real hard in the mirror and see what the democrats have done to this country. They are the ones that are destroying the great nation and Obama and his Progressive bunch are the worst or them all..."

One thing I've noticed about Republican followers is they LOVE to throw out accusations and insults, but they NEVER have anything to back up even ONE word they say.

The news media have been all over Mitt Robme and Paul Ryan for the last 2 weeks, nonstop, for telling outright lies, and Republican zombie followers STILL haven't caught on.

Republican mind-block on the rise!

Obama/Biden 2012

Daniel Streibig

It appears you've just landed from Mars!!! you can take Gov Romney with you after 6th November.....birds of a feather!! good luck.

This is just talking points. Obama offered a 2.5:1 spending cuts:tax increase and the republicans walked away. class warfare is just the lie to get the uninformed to side with those who don't want to pay their fair share.

This is all on the Congress, and those who want to pass blame onto the president are wrong to do so.

You are so full of it I can smell you through the computer. They had a 10 - 1 ratio, 10 dollars of spending cuts to 1 dollar of revenue increase and the GOP rejected it. You're more retarded than they are if you expect anyone to believe your dribble. Slither back over to FOX, you'll be believed there.

Tea-Boehned

From the article above:

"I'm not confident at all," Boehner exclaimed at his weekly press conference.

The article continues…

"It was a difficult time. I still look at my failure to come to an agreement with the president as the biggest disappointment of my speakership," Boehner said in reflecting on that period, which is detailed in a new book by journalist Bob Woodward.

Make no mistake.

The FAILURE is this TEA PARTY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE.

The FAILURE is 10 years of Trickle-down economics.

The Tea Party can’t be trusted with our tax dollars. They are the party of the Greedy and will hand our money over to the wealthy.

John Boehner has FAILED America.

The Tea Party has FAILED America.

Take back the House of Representative this November. Re-Elect President Obama.

Salud

Actually repubs are in the driver seat they control the house right now and have us gridlocked with their continuous use of the filibuster. 1.2 trillion added to the 12+ trillion caused by bush and 4 from Obama is hardly a cliff. Boner needs to be fired worst speaker in American history.

Of those 700,000 jobs that are being projected to be lost how many do you think could be saved if Mittens would not have recieved his $770,000 tax credit for his wifes show horse.

Daniel, it is not pollitical ----- to me, it is serious, and I truely think it is time to increase those taxes on anyone making over 250,000 per year. Actually, the president is nicer than I am, I think you should increase them on anyone making over $150,000 per year - where I live and in the medical profession I work in that is an extremely large income. Or better yet, how about a real compromise - we let them keep those tax breaks if they can prove they have actually created jobs with the money? Sounds pretty fair and patriotic to me.

Does it scare the crap out of anyone else that Boehner is third in line for president?

Ha Ha that is funny dumb ass. The republicans set this up when they voted the tax cuts in the first place. The democrats can just sit back and wait for the republicans to come to the table and deal in good faith. It's the republicans that are raising taxes not democrats.

WE NEED TO INCREASE TAXES FIRST.. To cut gov spending in a recession is stupid

Increasing taxes during a recession is even MORE STUPID ! That will hurt consumers, decrease demand and cause all businesses to adjust downward even more.

@TAJ623251

Well, it does now!

That's okay, I really didn't want to sleep nights anyway!

Definitely food for thought.

Obama/Biden 2012

streibig, apparently you missed the Obama offer to cut spending $3 for every $1 for tax increase. Rejected by guess who. Cut the spin the truth is you Republicans are all brain dead, lead by the likes of,Rush,Beck,Trump and Palin.

Isn't it amazing how easily the GOP creeps lie???? They make me feel physically ill to even hear their voices now. After the debates I want to see what they'll say when Twit has his head handed to him by Obama. Boehner and his bunch of loonies are in for the shock of their lives. Twit is no more than an empty suit that can only repeat lie, after lie, after lie, and has nothing in his speeches that he put there himself.

he's a nut case a fiscal conservative is not what the country needs

and isn't boehner on the ballott this year too? Guess any real compromise and leadership might get in the way of his campaign too. sorry bonehead, you make it way too easy for us because you are such an idiot.

*gasp!* How dare you suggest something so sensible on this vine?

I'm of the opinion that's how all bills should be proposed in the first place.

jdp in pdx - I agree, I really wish each bill were presented on it's own merritt with absolutely no amendment allowed, that is how it should be.

Excellent idea, scottsdale and sensible as well! I remember years ago when I was collecting child support that in some tax code bill was a little thing that stated the RECIPIENTS of child support had to pay a fee in order to receive it in order to collect more monies. I called my Congressman, who had voted for it, and he apologized to me as he wasn't aware that was part of the bill he had signed. Nice!

Actually they wanted more than 100%. They kept moving the goal post and then wanted to shut down planned parenthood to top things off.

All republicans from village dog catcher on up through the U.S. Senate need to be voted out of office.

Steeler blames the House Speaker for the Obama depression?

That is like blaming the second string QB for the Steelers loss..

It is on Big Ben for throwing the INT..just like Obama is responsible for his lack of leadership and his massively failed policies...

You're wrong, Bob---I place the blame for our recession squarely where it belongs--on President Bush. I place the blame for the recovery not being as robust as it could have been on the GOP---the same ones who decided ON THE DAY OF PRESIDENT OBAMA'S INAUGURATION to oppose him at any turn, no matter what the cost. The GOP---keeping millions out of work to cost one man his job.

Steeler - Don't forget that the Democrats still control the Senate and the House can't do anything, even when they pass bills and a budget, without the cooperation of the Senate. The fact that President Obama has failed as a leader. A true leader is one that can build a consensus through meetings, compromise and civil talk and mutual respect. A true leader does not play the BLAME game nor go public to show his contempt of the other side.

sfcret, A true leader is one who builds consensus. If this is true when congressional bills are defeated in the Senate all that Congress has to do is come up with a 2/3
majority of house Representatives to over ride the Senate. I would think this should be easy for a man with Boehners abilities.

They did Monty. They presented a budget and that was rejected. So, why doesn't Obama come off the golf course and actually do some work like statemanship? The senate is the issue as it is controlled by Harry Reid. It's a wonder he can even find the bathroom most days.

And, speaking about doing something, who was the last President to pass a budget? Give up? His name was - drumroll please - George "W" Bush. That's right, Obama and his democrat cronies have not passed a constitutionally mandated budget in 3 years. So, why doesn't Obama and his clown car administration pass a simple budget? Probably because that would make him responsible for the over runs and he'd have to do something other than posture on the TV everyday or play golf or whatever the heck it is that he has been doing. He certainly isn't creating jobs! LOL

They're just coming off vacation now. They're going to work two weeks then go back on vacation until after the election.

And these clowns want to blame President Obama for a lack of progress?

112th Congress - lowest approval rating in history (9%), more filibusters in one term than all of US history combined (300+ and counting).

Yeah, sure it's Obama's fault. How frikken dumb do they think we are?

Maryland, Get with reality 3 1/2 million private sector jobs have been created in the last 3 years. Try some truth serum in your breakfast cereal.

Again, the chokehold is in the Senate that is controlled by the farcical idiot Reid. Boehner cannot do anything without the senates and the presidents cooperation. And we know where Obama spent a lot of time. Sure hope his handicap has come down.

Guess you need a refresher course as to how the US government works David. See, the HOR votes and sends a bill to the Senate. If they pass the same bill without issue, they pass it on to the President for signing. If they don't agree, the two houses have to caucus in committee to come to a compromise (not a strong suit of either house mind you). Then the senate votes on the new bill and passes it on to the President to sign. (or veto). That's is, more or less.

Reid is smarter than you are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OBAMA 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I couldn't have said it better , Boehner can never expect anything good from that bunch of Nephilims , might as well wait tell President Obama is re-elected , and we have the majority in the House and Senate , and then right the bill properly with out caveing to those Tea Party banditos .

that was your clue to look up that word L O L .

"Cant" and Leslie. You two obviously don't have a clue as to how our government works. This is why I think anyone who wants to vote should have to take a civics(don't mistake this for a foreign car please) test before doing so. The House can only submit bills to the senate. The senate is the chokehold(where everything is stopped) and it is in clear control of the dumbocrats. Obama had clear majorities in 2008 in both houses(the House of Representatives and the Senate) and still couldn't get anything substantial (big) done. And you two think he is a great leader? Oh please! He couldn't lead a cub scout meeting any more than he could pass a budget or create legislation to create jobs.

So far, the GOP House has submitted nothing of value to the Senate. or this Nation, only failed trickle down economics with more tax cuts for job creators who already have increased their wealth to 44% of all the wealth in America, up from only 8% back in 1969. This is a result of the Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II Administrations, which chose to cut taxes for the "job creators" who took their tax cuts, and did not create jobs, but bought more stuff, or chose high return, non job creating investments. Strange how the GOP, with 28 years of the Presidency, created only half as many jobs as the Democrats, with only 24 years in the Presidency. Now Romney and Ryan want to do it all over again, with the very bogus claim that "this time it will work!".

I find it particularly amusing that Boehner and the GOP, including Ryan, were adamant about no more deficits, no debt ceiling increases, and to make their point, brought about the Debt Ceiling,Debacle, only costing investors world wide over 2.7 trillion in market losses, all to coerce Obama into accepting their budget and cuts, with no tax increases on the "job creators" who have not created jobs, but just more wealth. and spending cuts to avoid more deficits.

Now Romney and Ryan have released their own" Marvelous"or "Impossible:" budget, which numerous analysts have determined will create an additional 5 trillion in Federal Deficits and take over 10 to 15 years to attain a balanced budget.

Why is is than now, when the GOP wants to create a deficit ridden budget, it is ok, one which will strip the government of any funds with which to attempt job creation legislation, yet when Obama seeks funding for job creation, it is stalled, blocked with the excuse it will create more deficits?

Face it. It has not been about about deficit since 2010, s, it is about keeping America miserable, angering the electorate, and hoping and praying they will vote Obama out of office. It is all about winning for the GOP, not about rebuilding America.

Why would any American voter waset their votes on the GOP.? They do not care about you, or this Nation, just winning in 2012, no matter what the cost to this Nation and its people.

All Romney and Ryan have to offer is more of Bush II's failed economic policies, neatly wrapped in a brand new package, or in other words, Romney is offering nothing but Bush 2.1 failed economic solutions.

NO. The Republican House hasn't passed any good bills that the Senate is sitting on. Raise Revenue is a good start.

I agree. They have only passed bills that have no chance in hell of becoming law. They went to Congress with "creating jobs" as their primary goal, if by creating jobs, you mean preventing abortion and contraception as well as job creation.

I agree!

The Republican House hasn't passed any good bills that the Senate is sitting on.

First of all that was a grammatically incorrect sentence, so you must have failed English.

Secondly, you must have fallen asleep in Civics also, since it is the duty of the Senate to vote up or down on what the House passes. If you do not like a bill then vote "no" on it. The spineless Senate is worried about suffering the political consequences of their voting record, so instead they choose to steal from the American taxpayer by not doing what they were elected to do.

If they were in the US armed forces they would be charged with "dereliction of duty"

The only bills the Rethuglicans introduced,was the bill from two wars.

On NOV 6th, the American public will put the Tea House out-of-business.

Salud

I Repeat, the Republican House hasn't passed any good bills that the Senate is sitting on.

On Novemver 6th the majority of the American public will place the left wing anoyance on a quiet state for a while.

Salute, from Blatina Chiquita.

I believe the number of times the republican house passed bills to repeal the affordable care act was in the 30's. Then they passed bills restricting women's choice's and named some post offices. That pretty well sums up Boners house activities.

Maobama Critic

The Civics lesson you speak of?

yeah the Senate has tabled like 260 "Poison Pill GOP Bills" and they do so because it cannot be debated once tabled and there is absolutely no reason to spend a minute debating a GOP Bill. If they allow a debate and not table it the Bill is subject to amendment after amendment before they even vote on the original Bill presented.

Perhaps were they presented "Clean" Bills that were intended to create jobs, help the economy, health care reform.... perhaps a clean bill would be worth the debate and maybe something could get done for the country and not just for the GOP ideologues! Perhaps!

No matter where you live and no matter the new Voting laws, it is worth the trouble to register, get the ID's the republicans have forced if you are required and get out and vote! The House needs an overhaul, the Congress/House has the worst approval rating in history and they have held America hostage for two years now, it's time for change. VOTE!

What a day for obama... -(1st..he sends $$$ 1 BILLION tax -dollars to Egypt ..-(2nd. he shuns the leader of Israel.. -(3rd..he has a jimmy carter experience with his mulism-broHOOD buddies.. -(4th..the Egypt USA compound is over ran and the US Flag is burned--obama will not salute it anyway... -(5th. Syria kills the USA ambassador and many more Americans.. -(6th.RA--.emmanual and the union thugs in Chicago stage a riot that puts children on the street when murders in chicago have escalated...(7th..nbc says credit for USA to be downgraded again. (8th.. Russian and cartel submarines invade the US undetected.. (9th. obamaDoNOTcare is the largest tax in world history, that NO ONE can afford...

yep, our prez is doing a great job...NO economy or jobs, NO foreign respect, NO concern for Americans being murdered by muslum-terrorist or by street thugs, NO security on the US border....Increases taxes on the middle class and kills Medicare--700 billion removed, cuts the pay to our TROOPS..

as Eastwood said, this craziness has got to stop!! WE the people hired you to do a job and you have FAILED..now WE will replace you!!

See me in November and lets see if you are correct.