The press is as bought and sold as the politicians they cover

They don't cost much either

runninwild

Joe Biden is an i d i o t and a compulsive liar, and the biggest reason that I would NEVER vote to reelect Obama.

And another gem of substance from the right wing is doled out. And to think I thought this board was low on value and compromise.

To be fair to Joe, he was a Senate giant and foreign policy guru, in spite of his brain surgery that has left a visible impact on him.

Biden is...my joe, your joe, and our joe...and now - forever a part of American lore (for being VP).

Obama/Biden 2012

It would be a great idea to have the moderator call out the canidates but first you would have to find a non partiasian moderator and I don't think there is one out there.

elliot-3020456

I'm a little worried about what all these crazy enraged liberals are going to do when their chosen one bets the boot. Just look how they act on here when things aren't going their way.

I'm betting that a few of them go on killing sprees. They remind me of a cult who would do anything to defend their leader, including acts of violence.

Is this the kind of right wing fanatical BS you spew at the water cooler every day? Oh wait, I'll bet you're on the gov't teet and buy kool aid and bom pops with your bridge card while pointing that little hypocritical finger at others.

Another Gem Folks!

'Fact check me'

Now there's three words you'll never hear Romney or Ryan say...... Or any other Republican for that matter.

BabyBoomer,

More aggravating to me than being incorrect, which can be addressed by an opponent in their retort, is deflection, a pivoting away from the posed question in order to parrot talking points from some loosely related issue which the respondent sees as more favorable to their cause.

Very few moderators successfully press a respondent to answer the question as posed. David Gregory on Meet the Press is one of the biggest violators, whereas his predecessor, Tim Russert, was well-known for his ability to work a deflector into a corner.

Perhaps the debates should have a jury on stage, comprised of collegiate debate coaches, where contestants are immediately scored as to the degree to which their response addressed the original question.

Couldn't you just see it? Three scores go up: Out of a possible 10, a 3, a 4, and another 3 for a total score of 3.33. Rack up enough low scores and you leave the debate with a total avergae of 3.45, whereas your opponent walks away with an 8.15.

Think the voters would be pleased with your 3.45?

Oh well, we can only dream...

Tax evasion....is one of reasons that popular progrms like Social Security and Medicare are fast running out of money. GOP tries to further damage them by 'reforming' them.

But why Medicare needs reforms? GOP say it's running broke...why running broke...because tax evasion committed by core GOP constituents - those rich fat cats.

Mitt is the leading dog in evading taxes ...ur....I mean..leading vulture

Hey, Mitt, where are your tax returns....

I'm a little worried about what all these crazy enraged liberals are going to do when their chosen one bets the boot. Just look how they act on here when things aren't going their way.

I'm betting that a few of them go on killing sprees. They remind me of a cult who would do anything to defend their leader, including acts of violence.

Get ready to hear about some liberals pulling another Jared Laughner and killing a bunch of innocent people.

elliot,

It seems that you're the one people should be worried about. Since your thought process resembles that of a misguided middle-schooler, I pray that you aren't old enough yet to purchase an assault rifle. Fantasizing killing sprees is not normal human behavior. Please, seek help from your school counselor on getting you and your parents in touch with professional psychiatric help immediately.

Obama 2012/Romney 1040

Fact check everyone, it's the only way we are going to know who is telling the truth.

BB48….spot on! A bit more scrutiny of the answers, from both sides, would not only be refreshing but beneficial for all, particularly the nation. Perhaps then we would see the real picture of who we are voting for. Furthermore, election promises should be enshrined in law and dealt with in a proper fashion, if not delivered. These days you can say anything one day and do the opposite the next. That must be stopped, politicians must be held accountable for their promises!!!

The “other” guy you mentioned is Ryan of course, isn’t it?

Which is more important in a president?

1. an artful liar and/or womanizer..but nonetheless great politician------such as FDR, Ike, Nixon, Reagan, and Clinton
2. OR someone with great personal integrity but a failure as president ......such as Carter

Either ....or...

tough choice to make???

why facts are so important in an election? anyway...

Have you heard a famous saying - you campaign in poetry, but govern in prose....

Can ... anything factual ... be poetic??

But having a great command of facts can really help ...once you are in office.

Biden is proof that God exists, as he is the answer to our (Republican's) prayers.

2016

The media leans left. BS! The media leans truthful which just so happens to be Democrat! This "the media is biased and liberal" is a Republican talking point to try and justify all their own lies that are being reported.

Bye Tony. No one is keeping you here.

Tony D-373561,

Since you're the self-appointed blog monitor, is there anything you would like to say to elliot-3020456? Post #1.6 Hmmmmm? We're waiting for you to help clean up the board where it's truly needed.

Obama 2012/Romney 1040

Only good thing about "ol Joe" is he's good for a couple gaffs and some humor in a very humorless administration.

Biden to press: 'Fact check me'

This alone is a glaring statement about Biden's reality...

Biden was a senator when Lyin Ryan was still shi%ing yellow.

@Get Real - If anything, it shows that at least he encourages people to point out the flaws in anything he may say or do, whatever it might be. He's not against people saying what they want or think.

It's true that sometimes people make mistakes, but for someone to ask for people to discuss his mistakes is a show of true character. I doubt Romney or Ryan would EVER allow people to argue with what they believe is right. Biden on the other hand? He asks people to prove him wrong - at least that way he can learn and grow (who says old dogs can't learn new tricks these days?).

This humanized approach from Obama/Biden is why I'm voting for them. Because those two aren't simply focused on the economy and jobs. After all, we are not a corporation, we are a nation. And a nation is not a slaveholder's compound.

Obama/Biden 2012. Fired up, and ready to go anytime, President!

You are one sick individual, Elliot. Get help.

ido, to quote Ronald Reagan shows a lack of intelligence, the man was a liar, a crook and piss ant.

Get ready to hear about some liberals pulling another Jared Laughner and killing a bunch of innocent people.

This speaks volumes about your character. Using the loss of lives to further your political hate, is epic on the level of D. Baggery that someone could be.

What tragedy will you use now for your next political attack?

At least tell me that there is some level of guilt on your part.

"we're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers." Paul Ryan

Neither Ryan or Romney has never let facts get in his way. He'll create 10,000,000 jobs. How? Details are irrelevant to these guys. It's a long road back and we will have to pay more taxes and cut defense. At the same time, Ryan's budget calls for a 70% cut to Veterans Affairs. They don't want to fix what they break.

Corporations have extorted enough money and defense contractors have fleeced the treasury for years. I spend my 4 years in the military watching money being urinated away. Now, they keep showing more cash towards the private sector.

Obama-Biden 2012 to restore the dwindling Middle Class.

Elizabeth Warren-Bernie Sanders 2016

I just love reading the Vine! It is marvelous to read the note of desperation in the GOP/tea party/right wing nuts posts. First off, given the fact they are so desperate and angry their posts are always full of errors in spelling and sentence construction. That is laugh number one because it shows such complete ignorance and the fact they are too lazy to proofread or spell check their posts.

In a much more serious note I am appalled that in this nation which is known as a melting pot has so very much hatred and bigotry in 50% of its citizens, that is a disgrace.

Couple that with the same 50% wanting to convert us to a theocracy. That tells me that people do not want to live under our Constitution and our Bill of Rights.

And I'm asking you to do yourself and the rest of us a favor and simply leave this country, if you don't like it then why are you still here? Or don't you even have the balls to honor your own principles whatever those may be?

Another fact check? You can't survive on Mars.

What do they mean you can't survive on Mars??? Why are we trying to go there if we cannot survive?

I believe what this writer meant is you cannot survive there without assistance so to put Biden's statement in prospective...If people were on the moon working as we are trying to accomplish and they just landed back on Earth they would "think that they (Republicans) really cared about it. You'd think it's something they thought of," Biden said of Republicans. So even FactCheck can be wrong when they don't think things out.

The non-partisan factcheck.org found that to be an exaggeration; while repeal of ACA would mean the earlier exhaustion of the part of Medicare that covers hospitals, the fund would still collect payroll taxes to cover the vast majority of hospital bills.

Then why does the Republicans in congress want to keep screwing with it? Could it be that they don't want to pay back the money they borrowed to fight the Iraq war and by restructuring the Medicare system they can just wipe out the money they owe Medicare? Something doesn't pass the smell test here.

sandtrich

"we're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers." Paul Ryan

There is just no defense to such uttered gibberish. My oh my, the Dems could win this thing iif they sat back and let the GOP ticket just whine away..... gaffe by gaffe.

Reminds me of a Bill McNeal quote (Phil Hartman) from NewsRadio:

Don't try to confuse me with the facts.

Gotta love those jobs saved/ jobs gained numbers. How about that deficit number? If elected, what is Obama going to do with the debt he inherited?

Eliminate the capital gains loophole that Romney enjoys and tax all those with over $2 million dollars of personal income at a 50% tax rate. Then maybe they will use the money to actually create jobs like the Republican myth says they will instead of salting it away in a Swish bank account.

Why do these sports millionaires that do nothing but shoot a ball in a hoop for $14 million a year get all the loopholes where an honest Joe working a job has to pay full taxes without any tax breaks. They're even talking about eliminating the home mortgage deduction for working men and women but letting businesses keep all their deductions. Go figure who side the Republicans are on and vote for Obama.

elliot-3020456

I'm a little worried about what all these crazy enraged liberals are going to do when their chosen one bets the boot. Just look how they act on here when things aren't going their way.

I'm betting that a few of them go on killing sprees. They remind me of a cult who would do anything to defend their leader, including acts of violence.

Yeah damn those liberals that bombed the Oklahoma federal building, shot the doctor in church, bombed abortion clinics, shot JFK, RFK, and MJK, ......wait those weren't liberals...they were right wing nuts. Never mind.

Democrats love poor people so much that they create more of them every year. Just look at the rising number of Americans living in poverty, collecting food stamps, and abandoning hope of finding a job. If you like those escalating numbers, give Democrats Obama/Biden another four years and those numbers will soar through the roof!

And if Barak Obama is so compassionate towards the poor, why won’t he help his own half-brother (George Hussein Obama) who lives in a corrugated shack in Kenya?

On a different note, one glaring difference I noticed from watching MOST of the festivities at both political conventions was this: several ORDINARY people (NOT political hacks) associated with Republican Mitt Romney’s past gave stirring testimonials about his character, integrity, compassion, and accomplishments. In contrast, I didn’t see anybody of similar status (ORDINARY people from Obama’s past) trotted out to vouch for Democrat Barak Obama’s “sterling” attributes. That really left me wondering why we know so little about Obama’s background. Who are/were his ORDINARY, non-political, non-bombastic friends? And why doesn’t anyone who attended college classes with him remember him or tell stories about him? Who were his old girlfriends (REAL girlfriends, not the IMAGINARY girlfriend he mentioned in his book)? And why are his college transcripts and thesis closely guarded secrets while his mantra is “transparency?” Barak Obama seems to be a pig in a poke (meaning an offering or deal that is foolishly accepted without being examined first...a confidence trick).

Truth across the board.

kkwilson

Wasn't allowed to finish the post......tried twice....I give up.

Fact check me:

Washington Post says that Medicare will probable run out of funds to pay for hospital but will pay most of medical bills. Another words outpatient care. My wife was in the hospital for approx. 10 hrs. She passed away and the hospital bill was $7,000. 10 hrs=$7,000. It was covered by HMO Kaiser and Medicare. How many of you have got $7,000 for hospital bill? Vote wisely

"If … you got dropped down from Mars and turned on the convention, you'd think that they really cared about it. You'd think it's something they thought of," Biden said of Republicans.

What is it with these libs and martians?

Biden/Villa would be the unchallenged loser in a debate with an empty chair.

Let's not forget Biden/Villa self proclamation that the execution of bin Laden was the most audacious military action in the last 500 years.

And Rich711, Bozojoe will be sitting in his yellow sh** when Ryan becomes VP.

Best post of the day................>>> BigAl Las Vegas

'Fact check me'

Now there's three words you'll never hear Romney or Ryan say...... Or any other Republican for that matter.

Paul Ryan's entire RNC speech was a pack of lies, and it already has been refuted. Ryan proceeded to lie more about the lies.

If I'm lyin' I'm Ryan.

Starderup:

YOU WROTE: "Paul Ryan's entire RNC speech was a pack of lies, and it already has been refuted." (however, you failed to present examples)

MY RESPONSE: I’m always amused when I read the unhinged rhetoric of left-wing zealots, who go ballistic when they think they’ve detected a “Lie” by a Republican. The outrage and condemnation is always deafening. However, those same duped zealots remain strangely silent when their darling Democrat cronies spew blatant lies on an exponentially more frequent basis. Here’s a few examples of the lies mouthed by Barak Obama himself:

In a speech delivered in Selma, Alabama in 2007, Obama said that because some folks had the courage to “march across a bridge” in Selma, his mother, a white woman from Kansas, and his father, a black Muslim from Africa, took heart. It gave them the courage to get married and have a child (meaning him). (However, Obama’s parents had him in 1961; the marches across that bridge in Selma didn’t occur until 1965). Obama’s pandering speech was reminiscent of Hillary Clinton’s claim to have been named after the first man to climb Mt. Everest (even though she was born nearly six years BEFORE Sir Edmund Hillary climbed that mountain and became famous; prior to that, Sir Edmund was virtually unknown) and John Kerry’s imaginary trip to Cambodia.

In Obama’s book, Dreams From My Father, he wrote “A Life magazine article changed my outlook on life.” (Life magazine has yet to find the article Obama mentioned in his book. The article doesn’t and never did exist)

Obama also told us that “His father served in World War II.” (but his father was only nine years old when the war ended)

And let’s not forget that Obama said, “I won’t run on a national ticket in ’08.” (Obama even admitted on live TV that he didn’t have enough experience at that time, and he constantly touted the importance of experience) Yet he did run and win. Now look at the disaster his own lie and admitted lack of experience has caused!

As an Illinois Senator, Obama said, “I wrote a tough Nuclear Bill.” (but Obama’s bill was rejected by his own party for its pandering and lack of substantive regulation – mainly because of his Nuclear Donor, Exelon, from which Obama’s buddy, David Axelrod, came)

Here’s another of Obama’s misleading statements: “I passed 26 bills in one year.” (but those were NOT Obama’s bills; instead, they were handed to him after their creation by fellow Democrat, Illinois Senate President Emil Jones, to assist Obama in his bid for higher office)

How about this lie: “I don’t take PAC money.” (He’s taken truck loads of it)

And do you believe this one: “Wal-Mart is a company I wouldn’t support.” (even though Michelle Obama mysteriously received nearly a quarter of a million dollars through Treehouse, which is connected to Wal-Mart)

In 2008, Barack Obama said, “Guantanamo Bay will be closed within a year.” (yet it’s still open and fully operational)

Then in February 2009, Barak Obama “VOWED to reduce the deficit by 50% by the end of his first term in office.” (Instead, the deficit has exploded under Obama. It accelerated $4.939 trillion in only 3 ½ YEARS since Obama became president, and it’s still rising)

In early 2010, Mr. Obama claimed that the border fence is “basically complete.” (but only if you consider 5% as “basically complete”)

Obama even bellowed that he would have “the most transparent administration in history.” (insert laugh track here) (that lie is so comical that it needs no rebuttal…common knowledge doesn’t require documentation)

As an Obama critic (who is a black man) once mused, “We need to ask some very serious questions about Barak Obama. It’s not enough to be black, it’s not enough to be articulate, and it’s not enough to be eloquent and a media darling. The only question will be how deaf an ear, or how blind an eye, will people turn in order to turn a frog into a prince?”

runninwild..if as you claim Obama is a lier then just what is Romney and Ryan then ? Please explain just what line they have used against Obama was the truth ? I have read what they claimed to have been Obama's words..and they all , Romney's claims , came up wrong..so just who is the real lier here? So far I have yet to hear any details from either Romney or Ryan on what they will do if elected...and trusting Romney is the last thing I would ever do. Please consider..his claims of bringing jobs back to the USA is interesting since he and his company helped to export many of those same jobs.

I think that the Dems are going to be pretty darn mean in the next legislative session. The GOP has turned the country into a Hate Black state and it is up to the government to set a new example. The GOP won't do it so they are going out and it isn't going to be pretty. You all want hate, you are gonna get it.

ivan, NC:

With all due respect, You need to examine the utter hypocrisy of Barak Obama regarding the General Electric Corporation. Obama constantly rales about evil corporations and the low taxes (if any) they pay.

Yet one of the largest corporations paying no taxes is General Electric, whose CEO is Jeffrey Immelt, one of Barak Obama’s close friends. In fact, Barak Obama appointed Jeffrey Immelt to head Obama’s highly touted Jobs Council (what a joke!). And while GE pays no taxes, Mr. Immelt is moving more of GE’s infrastructure to China. I wonder why Mr. Immelt and GE’s behavior doesn’t bother Barak Obama (or maybe even you?)? Could there be a double standard at work here?

And why hasn't the mainstream news media properly vetted President Obama yet? During a CNN debate, Senator Obama stated that he smoked marijuana and that he "inhaled frequently" and that "that was the point." When campaigning in Iowa, Senator Obama was again asked if he used marijuana and if he inhaled. He stated that he did indeed. In his memoirs "Dreams From My Father," President Obama stated that he "drank heavily" and "tried drugs enthusiastically."

For the sake of context, here’s one entire excerpt about drug abuse from Obama’s book in his own words: “I spent the last two years of high school in a daze, locking away the questions that life seemed insistent on imposing. I kept playing basketball, attended classed sparingly, drank beer heavily, and tried drugs enthusiastically. I discovered that it didn't make any difference if you smoked reefer in the white class mates sparkling new van, or in the dorm room with some brother you'd met down at the gym, or on the beach with a couple of Hawaiian kids who had dropped out of school and now spent most of their time looking for an excuse to brawl.”

So, the obvious question is how did Obama get accepted at elite universities, such as Columbia and Harvard, if he was in a “daze” during his last TWO YEARS of high school? Many high school students with stellar scholastic records can’t get into those elite schools no matter how hard they try! Why doesn’t the mainstream news media investigate this apparent mystery?

Oh, I forgot. The corrupt news media is busy staying focused on Mitt Romney giving some classmate a “noogie” 50 years ago. Who can legitimately claim that the lap-dog news media ISN’T in the tank for Obama?

I just love Sideshow Joe. He wanted them to fact check him and they did. He lied about everything LOL. I never get tired of him saying stupid things. I can't wait for the VP debate. I think I'll get some popcorn and enjoy the show as Ryan shows just how stupid Sideshow Joe is. How liberals ever thought this clown was ready to take over as president is beyond me.

Spoken like a true Sarah Palin fan, Mike.

Get over it.... she LOST.

Neither party is 'anti-religious". I'm sorry but your anti Semitic theory is just a conspiracy that has no grounds in the real world.
Those who draft the Democratic party ideology assume that a majority of Americans wish to re-define the institution of marriage

Marriage is tied to religious entities and the state. If the state wishes to change the definition of marriage so as to include same sex couples then it can do that. We have separation of church and state in America. This is not a theocracy. We are not governed by religious laws.

"All decent Americans should carefully consider the kind of America that those who shape today's Democratic party values envision."

Ahad The same goes for the Republican party. The two parties are to far to the extremes that they refuse to come to a comprimise to solve our problems.

2/3 aproval from delegates at democratic convention needed to amend democrat platform . to get the words God Given and favor Jerusalem as the capitol of Isreal into platform tried 3 times to break a tie vote before pretending motion passes.

Ahad- Americans aren't agianst religion or Israel. They are just fed up with the religious crying all day. Each saying that everyone must live, think and believe the way they do. The Lord gave each of us free will. Yet, you folks would take it away. If you want to kiss Netenwahooos arse, fine. Doesn't mean everyone must do it. There is a difference in in being pro Israel and being manipulated by one of their politicians. I assure you some of them are just as shameful as some of our own pols. So, take your religious beliefs and go about your life. BUT, leave me alone.

Ahad and yet more than 75% of the Jewish population will vote Democrat as they always do. Seems they don't feel the way you think they do.

And don't give me the intolerance BS. Democrats have pushed for equal pay for women, the rights for gays to marry, fighting the voter id laws. It would seem the opposite is true of your misguided attempt to paint the Democrats and Jews alike.

Nice try though...

OP, please look up, Why Jews vote Democrat. And thanks for the advice, but we usually take our advice from more established sources than some schmoe on a chat room.

It was a real embarrassment, for me at least, with that "2/3" vote. It was clearly divided equally. I sure as hell hope this isn't a preview of the next 4 years. Obama gave enough to the bullies and tyrants on the right, as it is. Now, at the convention, they are at it again. I am hoping this term wouldn't be endless kowtowing to the GOP.

Why do we have to get into this again?

We have Article VI of the Constitution...

"...no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

...and we have The First Amendment...

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

With so much that needs to be fixed in this nation and in our government the last thing either party should be involved in is a contest to try and tell us which party is more religious.

A Pew Center poll in July reported the following when it comes to Mr. Romney and President Obama's respective faiths:

Mitt Romney: 41% are Comfortable with his faith, 13% are Uncomfortable with his faith, 14% say his faith doesn't matter to them and 32% don't even know what faith he is.

Barack Obama: 45% are Comfortable with his faith, 19% are Uncomfortable with his faith, 5% say his faith doesn't matter to them and 31% don't even know what faith he is.

Folks, if these are the results of that survey doesn't it tell you we have bigger things to worry about?

Folks, if these are the results of that survey doesn't it tell you we have bigger things to worry about?

Well said, Da Noid.

There is this little matter of the Constitution of the USA that states there will be a separation of Church and State. So enough with the religion. I am a Catholic and firmly believe that our government needs to adhere to this principle. It is a protection for all Americans. We are a melting pot of so many religions and it is fair to all Americans to adhere to this principle.

AhadHaamSheni post 2.0

You're obviously living in an alternate universe because that's not what I took away from the Democratic convention, what I saw was a group of caring and dedicated American citizens that not only love this country but are also people of faith that don't feel they have to wear that faith on their sleeves.......

All your doing is spewing your own fake theory for selfish reasons; my guess is to protect your wallet because you know the Republicans will give you BIG tax cuts..... and like most other selfish Republican supporters, money is the only thing that matters to you....

Ted Patrick, in what regards is the democratic party extreme? I hear this sometimes but no one can ever back it up. It is quite well known that the democratic party has actually moved to the right, and is definitely the more centrist of the two parties.

I do see comments by some Democrats that are as embarrassing as statements from republicans however, and also the same hypocracy...but the Democratic party on the whole is not as extreme as the current Republican party.

J.Heron I agree with you in part but i was including the democratic party because the senate has been stonewalling things like the house of reps are obstructing. they are both both part or the problem. The democrats have moved to the right simply because they want to get relected they had no choice if they wanted to keep their jobs.

Satanick

We have separation of church and state in America.

Anderson-656479

There is this little matter of the Constitution of the USA that states there will be a separation of Church and State.

http://www.constitution.org/cons/constitu.htm

if people dont even understand whats in the US constitution then how can they be informed enough to vote. read it and you might have an understanding of why people are angry at the government and both parties for their disgraceful lack of regard for what freed us from tyranny -we are going right back to it.

.

Swagganaut is exposing his inability to comprehend the purpose and intent of the Constitution. The First Amendment principle of the separation of church and state has been established in Supreme Court decisions going back to the nineteenth century.

January 1, 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson, addressed to the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut, and published in a Massachusetts newspaper. Echoing the language of the founder of the first Baptist church in America, Roger Williams...who had written in 1644 of "[A] hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world"...Jefferson wrote, "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

The Supreme Court has repeatedly chosen Jefferson's interpretation of the First Amendment principle as a template with which to interpret it. In Reynolds v The United States (1879) the Court wrote that Jefferson's comments "may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the [First] Amendment." In Everson v The Board of Education (1947), Justice Hugo Black wrote: "In the words of Thomas Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect a wall of separation between church and state."

Your wheezing and whining about tyranny clearly shows you have no concept of the purpose behind the First Amendment: the Founding Fathers were committed to keep religious tyranny from subverting our government and it is ignorant right wing lunatics like you and your degenerate ilk who seem hell bent to ruin our country with your fractured fantasies of what the Constitution "really means." Thank goodness you guys lack the intellectual horsepower to do little more than post nonsense on the internet for the amusement of the rest of the world.

Fail.

Tick tock, "jerry"...tick tock...don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you...

Sailcat-2064101

Swagganaut is exposing his inability to comprehend the purpose and intent of the Constitution. The First Amendment principle of the separation of church and state has been established in Supreme Court decisions going back to the nineteenth century.

wow are you just full of BS!! please show me where IN THE US CONSTITUTION where any of the words separation of church and state appear?

January 1, 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson, addressed to the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut

that is a letter before he was even president and ITS NOT LAW!!!!!! you obviously have no idea what he was saying in that letter as it had nothing to do with religion forcing itself onto government but the opposite.

The Supreme Court has repeatedly chosen Jefferson's interpretation of the First Amendment principle as a template with which to interpret it. In Reynolds v The United States (1879)

interpretation?!? our founders wrote the constitution so ALL CITIZENS CAN READ WITHOUT NEEDING TO INTERPRET IT!!!!!! it says:

Article the third [Amendment I]Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;or abridging the freedom of speech,or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

do you understand the plain words written in front of your face? it says CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAWS..... FREAKING CONGRESS!!!!!!!! or do you not get that through your thick skull? you have freedom OF religion, not freedom from or do you also not get those plain english words. do you need an interpreter to understand the difference between of and from?

Your wheezing and whining about tyranny clearly shows you have no concept of the purpose behind the First Amendment: the Founding Fathers were committed to keep religious tyranny from subverting our government and it is ignorant right wing lunatics like you and your degenerate ilk who seem hell bent to ruin our country with your fractured fantasies of what the Constitution "really means." Thank goodness you guys lack the intellectual horsepower to do little more than post nonsense on the internet for the amusement of the rest of the world.

wow, just wow. you have no clue to what you are talking about. you have no understanding at all how this country was founded and instead of a friendly debate on opinions you resort to insults and name calling, like a true loser.

our founders didnt want GOVERNMENT oppressing the people, it had little worries about religion except for the catholic church. our whole existence is because GOVERNMENT (the king) was oppressive, nothing to do with religion besides some religious migrants who were persecuted by the pope.

the first amendment has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with preventing the GOVERNMENT from oppressing its citizens.

the USSC has long ago overstepped its constitutional boundaries and forced its will on matters not within its authority to do so. the USSC is there to check the other 2 branches of government, not to interpret the US constitution for us. why not actually read the US constitution instead of letting others tell your their version of it and you might be surprised on how many violations have occurred since the beginning.

but you wont, your mind is made up and you will blindly follow whatever your side tells you, you dont ask questions for yourself but only to minimalism the opposition. you paint me as "right wing lunatic" when you have no proof and i have not engaged in such lunacy you believe.

you are the problem and only you can solve it, i feel pity as you will never see the light past the ideology you blindly follow.

Swag, the SCOTUS cannot provide a check and balance against the other two branches of government without interpreting laws as based on our Constitution. They have no other powers other than the legal one. Your presumption that they are not entitled to use judicial review as a check and balance is a direct contradiction to the very concept of checks and balances afforded to all three branches of government.

Example - without the Supreme Court, President Nixon's claim that "executive privilege" excluded and protected him and his policies from legislative oversight by Congress could not have been challenged otherwise as the President is the chief executive officer of the US per the Constitution.

Note that one of the check and balances on the SCOTUS is the ability to amend the Constitution. Another is impeachment.

Your interpretation of the separation of church and state also precludes the possibility that an atheist is protected from what he/she believes to be a false religion, or a Opus Dei Catholic from Southern Baptists, or a Hindu from a Muslim. The separation of church and state is specifically what allows religions to be safe in their worship from the state. If there was no separation, then a religion is effectively being endorsed by the state. This would potentially lead to theocracy versus a republic. Metaphorically, we wouldn't be the Taliban, we'd be it.

Judging by the growing dark stain in the front of Swaggarnut's short pants I'd say he has lost the battle of wits. Ignorance is its own reward, eh, Swaggar?

Fail again.

By the way...

our founders wrote the constitution so ALL CITIZENS CAN READ WITHOUT NEEDING TO INTERPRET IT

I'll remember your insane ravings next time you want to lose a debate on the Second Amendment, little guy!

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Here it is from someone higher than congress:

Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk. and they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodins, saying Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man; for thou regardest not the person of men. Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt me, ye hypocrites? Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? They saith unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the thing which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

God separated church and state!! From: Matthew,22:15-21

Here it is from someone higher than congress

Imaginary friends don't count. If you're looking for a country that bases its government on the teachings of a mythological character, move to Iran. I suspect you'll feel pretty comfortable there.

Jerry40yeardemocrat

This "right wing extremist" says get a job you bunch of handouter Libs.

Sorry, I and my progressive friends already have productive, well-paying jobs. We spent a lot of time getting good educations and a lot more time working to earn money for our families, and yes, to pay taxes so there'll be things like clean air and water and decent roads and airports. All the far right can do is parrot the Fox line that they're busting their backs while the rest of us sponge. Well, I'll see your claimed hard work and raise you 8 years of college and grad school leading to an income you probably only dream about.

Jimmy Carter Now Comes In Black.

It must be a really difficult decision every morning - "Do I wear a brown shirt or a white sheet?"

Sailcat-2064101

Judging by the growing dark stain in the front of Swaggarnut's short pants I'd say he has lost the battle of wits. Ignorance is its own reward, eh, Swaggar?

Fail again.

By the way...

our founders wrote the constitution so ALL CITIZENS CAN READ WITHOUT NEEDING TO INTERPRET IT

I'll remember your insane ravings next time you want to lose a debate on the Second Amendment, little guy!

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

grade school antics at its best. is that the best you can come up with? your constant insults add nothing to the conversation and only makes you look little. your the equivalent to screaming blah blah blah while covering your ears and then bragging to your self how you got the better up. you know nothing of what you speak based on the retorts you lack.

Matthew-2771918

Note that one of the check and balances on the SCOTUS is the ability to amend the Constitution. Another is impeachment.

no they cannot amend the US constitution, please show us where it says that. impeachment, against whom? they also lack that power as only the senate can bring up impeachment charges and trial. you seem to lack an understanding of the separation of powers and what powers each branch has. the courts only power is the judiciary power within the territories of the US, nothing more. read article III sec 1-3

Swag, the SCOTUS cannot provide a check and balance against the other two branches of government without interpreting laws as based on our Constitution. They have no other powers other than the legal one.

they would need to clarify the constitution for the other 2 branches but not insert language nor take any out as they have been doing. they cannot create laws, only strike em down if deemed unconstitutional. they cannot chase their own wants, they must be requested. they have been doing a horrible job.

how was it that the courts allowed slavery and government segregation laws to exist and even sided with them when it specifically states in the DoI that "all men are created equal" and the constitution does not allow it, was that too hard to understand for them? the courts have not been constitutional in a long time.

Your interpretation of the separation of church and state

PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE IN THE US CONSTITUTION THOSE WORDS APPEAR!!!!! if its not in there then why the hell do you keep repeating it!! how can i interpret something that is nowhere to be found except in a LETTER that has no legal relevance to the US constitution.

http://www.constitution.org/cons/constitu.htm

The separation of church and state is specifically what allows religions to be safe in their worship from the state

and what part of the US constitution is that in?

i hope you understand that the rights outlined in the DoI and US constitution are not granted rights by the government but inherited by our creator and they are unalienable. matter of fact both documents simply spells out the powers that government has and does not have, all powers not written are reserved to the states and people respectively.

Amendments are a check and balance ON the SCOTUS (as stated in my post), not a power of the SCOTUS. If Congress amends the Constitution, then the legal authority/decisions of the SCOTUS would be directly affected. Impeachment is a power of the Senate and it can be used. Again, that is a check and balance ON the SCOTUS (as stated) not a power of the court.

The word "God" doesn't appear in the Constitution either. So should we assume that God does not exist?

And you also forget the supremacy clause wherein the US is mandated to have the powers necessary for the health, safety, and welfare of the American people. It's been determined in the courts that this clause provides the legal authority to the federal government to do things such as control interstate commerce, provide for a Social Security system, and help provide interstate highways, PPACA, etc.

And respectfully, Swag - the first amendment says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

By reading it's clear that the establishment of religion is SEPARATE from the establishment of the State otherwise the First Amendment would have said something like "Congress SHALL make laws respecting establishment of religion . . . " This would (by actual definition) have directly connected Church and State as well as mandated the authority of the State over the Church (think Henry the VIII for a historical example). While the words "separation of church and state" are NOT directly stated in the Constitution, the logical and legal construct is very simple and accurate.

And since those specific words are not literally in the Constitution (but definitely provided for in logical and legal construct), we also refer to the demonstrated and stated intent of our Forefathers to help us give the Constitutional words meaning and context. You've been given those in another post. You've already unilaterally decided that the words of our Forefathers, when describing the condition of and intent of the state, were not applicable. You've unilaterally decided that the centuries of legal decisions in this area were wrong.

In your posts you've specified that the SCOTUS has no ability to interpret the Constitution (when that is specifically within their purvue) and you've specified that there is no separation of church and state. I suggest that your interpretations would not stand up in the courts either legally or logically.

With respect to the slavery issue, that was a political compromise on the part of our Founding Fathers to get certain states to sign the Declaration of Independence. While argued against by Thomas Jefferson (he of Danbury Letter fame), he was overruled to make sure that the colonies remained united against England. The argument presented was that slaves were not "free men", they were property, and as such, were not entitled to be freed from the yoke of tyranny. Ironic isn't it . . .

IPoor Swag. t's easy to see you lack the intellectual horsepower to understand the actions of the Founding Fathers and the purpose of the Supreme Court agree on the principle of separation of church and state. You learned nothing in junior high school it seems and now you are dependent on right wing neo-nazi zombie sites for your limited understanding of our government and how it operates per the constitution. I pity you but I have no sympathy for you. You are an example of everything that is wrong with the right wing lunatic fringe.

Fail for the last time.

"It can't happen here!" If you're Jewish (as I am) have you ever heard somebody exclaim with conviction that "It can't happen here," when talking about what happened to Jewish people in Europe in the 1930's and 40's? Perhaps you may be relatively young and thoughts of the holocaust are not even in the realm of what can possibly enter your mind, and that's a shame.

Hopefully, history has taught the Jewish people to beware if we find ourselves in a country beset by angry rhetoric. If that angry rhetoric is directed at the merchant classes, we should worry that one way or another, whether or not we consider ourselves to be on the same side as those making the angry accusations, that the anger will somehow end up directed at us. If you don't let history teach you anything, shame on you. Already we see the frightening incidents of anti-Jewish hatred among the "progressive"-inspired Occupy Wall Street .

These forces of hatred against the merchant class (and by extension, to the "Jews") have, of course, already been in place for a long time, both on the right and on the left. What is unique now is that President Obama is now artificially stoking the fires of that hatred in order to marshall them as part of a strategy for the solidification of his power. These are dangerous times. The only safe course for the Jews is to work for a diffusion of that anger, and that means to enthusiastically support the side that stands for stability, and to unequivocally condemn the forces that promote the unprecedented anger.

While standing before a crowd that writer David Mamet would call "brain dead liberals", President Obama said, referring to the thinking of the business owner who builds a successful business:

Furthermore, that Mitt Romney should be demonized by the President for basically having been successful in business and that this is being uncritically accepted by a significant number of Americans is a matter for serious concern by any Jewish person who gives it any intelligent thought.

Of the two choices available in this heavily polarized climate, I'll take the one that stands on the side of the businessperson, the side that believes in American free enterprise which made possible for us to thrive in what earlier generations of Jewish immigrants called "der goldene medina" -- the Golden Land. While many of our Jewish ancestors became Democrats because back then it was the more tolerant of the two parties, if those same people were arriving at our shores today with the intention of pursuing the American dream, they would urge you to vote for Mitt Romney.

Ahad, I have to disagree with the basic premises of your argument.

1) The premise that the President rails against the merchant class as a whole is false. Such is not the case. The railing has been against those American merchants that would make their profits at the detriment of their American customers (and even those folks that aren't their customers). Examples - off shoring jobs, usurious practices, poisoning the land and air that all people depend on.

2) The premise that the "other side" works for stability is false. If this were the case, then the deliberately pre-planned and implemented rampant obstructionism in Congress would not have happened. The "other side" has through this obstructionism deliberately worked against stability and then has blamed the President for "not working with us."

3) The premise that President Obama is "against the Jews" is false. I invite you to do your own research as to what and how the current administration has supported Israel in spite of what certain political leaders (both from Israel and the US) have said. The measure of a man is what he has done, not what others have said he has or hasn't done.

4) The premise that the current administration is against businessmen is patently false. Go back and review the small business tax cuts and other business supportive bills and actions that have been implemented by this administration (consider starting with the Presidential executive orders that don't make the headlines but none the less, provide help to the business community).

5) David Mamet was once a person who had a belief and a focus that people collectively were more important than the individual by himself. He used to believe in individuals being accountable for their actions. Now he does not. He has publicly sided with the "me me me, it's all about me" folks.

6) Gov. Romney falsely accused the President of being against businesses by selectively and non-contextually using the phrase "You didn't build that." Gov. Romney deliberately forgets that we all stand on the shoulders of those that came before us, those that taught us, those that sponsor us, and we all depend on the community resources (roads, power, communication, etc.) for our businesses to succeed. As a Jew, you historically understand the need for and the reliance on the community. (Note that it's also ironic that Gov. Romney has personally expressed the same concept and acknowledged that indeed we don't build that alone on more than one occasion.)

Go back and see the birth certificate accusations, the accusations that the President is a Muslim, that he "isn't a true American", that his wife "hates America", the death threats because he is black, etc. You'll see an unprecedented amount and use of "angry rhetoric" and falsehoods targeting one person from the "other side." For years now it's been the "other side" that has stoked anger and separation. As a Jew, you historically understand the idea of being separated from society and demonized. If you can't recognize that this is what the "other side" is doing, then you haven't opened your eyes.

Have a good day.

Matthew-2771918- Enjoy your comments.

ComradeChaos - Joe Biden can walk circles around you, Jack Kinch below and Paul Ryan any day of the week.

Obama/Biden 2012

I see seeking insantity is still touched by a little dementia. She thinks Joe Biden is a track star! As a VP, sleepy Joe is just sleepy!

Well said, Seeking. It will be very entertaining to see Joltin' Joe Biden whoop Lyin' Ryan at the VP debates. I'm sure the people hosting the debate will have a team of fact checkers googling Ryan's every word to keep him honest...if that is at all possible. It will also be entertaining to see how much of the discussion will go right over the heads of the right wing lunatic fringe, too.

Bring on the debates! It's time to expose the GOP's favorite losers for the intellectual midgets and lying cowards they really are!

Irevent love when people come on here and call our leaders dumb. My answer to that would be not when he's compared to you. Then he's Einstein.

Im sure you think Obama is stupid too. There is hardly a person posting here that could even keep up with them.

uhhh seeking insanity.... Robin hot in NM is talking about the weather, New Mexico is one of our southern states and is between Texas and Arizona.... and it gets hot downthere! Duhhh, you've got a dirty mind and not much else!

I'm reading The Amateur' by Ed Klein.... there's a thing in there about Joe Biden, it seems a couple years ago in March he had to take over hosting a White House dinner for obama. He made his apologies to the guests and said (I'm paraphrasing here) "The President couldn't make it tonight as he's preparing for Easter... he thinks that holiday is all about him"

Joe may be sleepy, but he does know a lot about 'the annoited one', doesn't he? lol!

Barry Kardashian - your last name fits you - nothing to say but more than willing to shout it at the top of your lungs!

Dirty mind???? Nothing I said in any way implied anything dirty. Apparently you live with your mind - as well as everything else - in the gutter. Oh, and the story you told - just that - a story or more like an absolute lie!

You're a moron!

Obama/Biden 2012

Barry Kardashian - your last name fits you

seeking insanity... you were confused about Robin's name and you seem to be confused about mine.... it's in honor of Barry O... a President in name only who seems to prefer appearing on TV shows rather than something like Creating JOBS!

His favorite show is the Kardashian's... you know those 'political scientists' of hollywood.. just up a narcissist's alley... wouldn't you say?

Don't make me correct you again seeking insanity!

So let's see, Barry . . you are basing your opinion of a sitting President on a book by a guy that also claimed that Chelsea Clinton was conceived as a result of Bill Clinton raping Hillary.And interestingly, Klein provides no footnotes, documentations, or references to back up his "leftist" claims. He also never reviews or compares other Presidents policies to Obama's preferring to allow his claims to stand without context.

Of course lte's also remember that Mr. Klein "left" the New York Times Magazine after being cited by other editors for "lapses in editorial judgement" to include falsifying stories about Khmer Rouge guerillas in Cambodia.

Heck, he couldn't even get through the pre-face of his book without a lying.

Barry Kardashian

Don't make me correct you again seeking insanity!

Is that a threat? What do you propose to do? Show us your brass big boy.

uhh Mathew The Amateur has been on both the hard cover non-fiction and soft cover non-fiction NY Times best selling list for months now.... the book checks out and there has been no facts disputed yet! Try a little harder next time!

I read the book (The Amateur) too... thought it was great and had a lot of insider information. (what a biatch Valerie Jarrett is, yikes!)

The book is easy to read, so most libbies won't have too much trouble getting through it, although I don't think they'll like to hear what Barry and Michelle are really like!

Atlas Shrugged 2 is coming out... it's all about Barry's vision for America just like 2016 The Obama Movie! Scary stuff.... let's make this a one term for the guy who wants to tear America down.. and is doing a pretty good job of it so far!

Uhtred 878...Another bottom feeding Republican that should have been tossed out with the afterbirth.

Bill T - many books have been on the NY Times best seller list. Lots of them are fiction. His is listed as "non-fiction" because that's the category in which the publisher advertised and sold it. (Note that "Regnery Publishing" advertises itself as "the leading conservative" publishing company. Think this might have been a factor in calling this book "non-fiction"?)

Ed Klein's book is presumably based on interviews. However, at least one person has claimed that he was misquoted and his comments distorted (Dr. Scheiner). Note that part of his "quotes" from his "interview with Dr. Scheiner" were plagiarized from a 2009 HuffPo interview.

Also, the Clintons have states that the opening portion of his book is a lie too.

Ed Klein refuses to release his interviews, provides no additional references, and fails in honest comparisons. He has a professional literary history of lying about facts.

Not just a idiot. He is the village idiot and thats a fact.

No, the fact is that Ryan has that job all locked up. He proves it daily, especially with his speech at the RNC.

and yet.. he will still crush the moron that has to study a month when this is his 4th or 5th term. You would think he would already have a strong grasp of the issues.

Obama/Biden: The D/F Transcript:Plagersim ticket

Seriously. Biden plagerized and Obama is hiding his college transcripts so as not to show his D's and F's.

No wonder the economy is garbage....these guys have no clue.

Hey Joe, your village called, they are missing their idiot!

Victorkingdom It goes both ways. He's hiding college transcripts as much as Romney is hiding tax returns.

Somewhere in Texas, a village is in morning. They got their idiot back from Washington.

Why is OBAMA moving to Texas

Eric,

Romney has disclosed what is legally required. I recommend you assume he made a trillion dollars over the last few years and paid no taxes.

I assume Obama had straight F's. Not sure what to make out of that other than an F (ie incomplete) student leading this country into financial ruin.

Victor, SO has Obama. My point is Rupublicans want things that are not legally required, just like Democrats are asking for things not leggaly required. Why do you feel the need to tell me what to assume or believe. My point plain and simple is both sides are asking for more than what's legally required, which keeps both candidates from campaining and talking about what their plan is for the future of this country. You are entitled to your opinions, but we do not need these distractions in our election. It goes both ways and both parties are guilty.

Eric,

Then the Dems should shut the f up in regard to Romneys tax returns (Harry Ried's assertion on the Senate floor was dispicable; particuarly since he lives at the Ritz).

I am with you on both sides. I could care less about Obama's college grades but clearly the Dems are playing the class warfare game and pitting the country against each other.

It is insulting to me the line of crap coming out of Obama. Specifically: "millionaires and billionaries not paying their fair share". If he was honest about the whole thing he would say "the $250thousandairs, millionaires and billionaires". BTW, I never realized that people who make over $250K were bad people, not paying their "fair share" (whatever that means) and somehow are cheating the government.

If you do not see the blatant class warfare approach from Obama then I recommend taking your blinders off. The dude has been a failed POTUS. He has been the most divisive POTUS in my lifetime (worse than Nixon). And to top it off, he is a flat out liar. A lot of kool aide drinkers out there but if anybody looks at it objectively then will come to the conclusion that this guy is a liar.

BTW; when is Gitmo going to close?

Enjoy your day:)

victorkingdom. I understand what you are saying. And I do agree with you. However Mitt Romney is doing these same things, only pandering to the rich, and is as big of a liar. I feel Romney distracts us from what his policies are, just as Obama does. Both sides are hugely guilty in distractions and lies that we are in big trouble no matter which way we decide.

Where is Ron Paul when you really need him.

Reince Priebus and the GOP hierarchy told Dr. Paul to stick it a couple of weeks ago. Then they pretended to honor him the next day.

Unfortunately for Dr. Paul, he was running for the wrong party's nomination. I will give him credit, though...like Dr. Paul or not, unlike the current GOP nominee, at least he actually does believe in something.

Yes, Dr. Paul is an honorable man. That is why he chose not to become a democrat-communist. He also believes in God. He would never BOOOOOO GOD.

Joe Thomas - and you honor God by posting lies and disgusting accusations every day. I guarantee you that Joe Biden is ten times the Christian you are - and a much better man any day of the week than lying Paul Ryan.

Crawl back under your rock - you're beginning to shed your skin!

Obama/Biden 2012

Boooing God is a teapub lie. They were booing changing the platform. Just because you flakes put the word God in a sentence doesn't make you a Christian person. The teapug fakes will never be happy.

Like the saying goes, "Being in a church makes you no more of a Christian than being in a garage makes you a car."

Where have good candidates gone? With all the ugly, childish comments about looks, you need to ask. Apparently, lot of them, including someone I greatly admire, Dennis Kasinash, are too icky looking to be President. To me, this shows the mindset of the average voter. Too bad candidates aren't elected strictly by radio exposure.

Your type should not be allowed to vote