And JoAnnaSmith1 resorts to deflection again, as she is incapable of presenting intelligent responses.

The GOP obstructs President Obama at every turn and then decries his inability to work with them. Reminds me of the joke about the kid who killed his parents and at the sentencing asked the judge for mercy because he was an orphan.

Smiffy,

It must suck that the DNC can have former-President Clinton speak at this convention but the RNC is too ashamed of "The 43rd President of the United States" to have him speak at their convention.

JoannaSmith1 - so it is ok for newtie and rudie to cheat but nobody else? You are gonna have to do better than that - and you can't. From what I've heard, sounds like President Clinton has been pleased with President Obama the last 3+ years, and who would ever have dreamed it - paulie girl actually defending President Clinton? I can't say I blame President Obama for ignoring congress - I've been trying to ignore them too, considering they have such a bad approval rating I'd think you would want your leader to ignore them and their stone age ideas. Sorry you are not better off Joanna, my working/middle class family and I are much better off, no thanks to the repugnants and the mess they left us with. Hope and change have worked very well for us, thanks for asking!

Here's an idea, let's also elect a congress that wants to serve the interest of country instead of party extremist and big money donors?

Spending HAS to be cut.

So Romney attacks this problem by proposing $900 billion in tax cuts. What a pro.

TorpedoYou

JSA1 is DONE and WASTED on conservative lies. She is a lost cause.

The "wedge" is already there, it's been there.

Bubba despises Obama, and almost seems to be trying to undermine him.

Plenty of examples in Ed Klein’s new book- where he is quoted calling Obama an “amateur’

Oh, I am SO delighted to have a Paul Ryan thread.

Here's a little video showing how he distorted and misrepresented when he said that Obama failed homeowners during the foreclosure crisis. In point of fact, it was Obama who helped many homeowners refinance and keep their homes. This is what Mitt Romney would have suggested doing --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiFslD8QYg4

Romney wanted to turn everywhere into "Potter's Field."

And here's some documentation of Ryan's outright misrepresentation about business bankruptcies.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/04/paul-ryan-claims-obama-makes-carter-looks-like-the-good-old-days-not-so-much/

The liar Paul Ryan isn't fit to opine on any subject, much less to shine Jimmy Carter's shoes or President Obama's shoes.

Okay. Done now. Carry on.

White Collar Auto --

You got the same outrage for your folks who failed to mention them last night?

Same old non-substantive garbage dump.

I suspect you missed the President's visit to New Orleans on Monday, where he said a lot more of substance that Liar Romney did when he was there, asking people where on earth the water came from and advising them to go home to their flooded houses and call 211 for help.

Obama doesn't need empty platitudes mouthed by people who really don't care like at the RNC. He lets his actions speak for him.

Romney, on the other hand, doesn't know where water comes in a hurricane in New Orleans. I wonder if he could locate it on a map.

Clinton is the only Democrat that American citizens do not despise for some reason.

Thats why they have him speak. He can still draw a crowd.a

Tax Man --

yep and the Forward slogan has ties to communism.

And to what does the expression "take the country back" have ties?

Neanderthalism?

Brianb --

How come the democrats have taken God out of their platform? Who are the democrats trying to please?

Um .... maybe it's those guys who framed the Constitution and wrote the Treaty of Tripoli and crafted a nation built on separation of church and state.

Why do you ask?

"Speaking of Paul Ryan, a new poll actually found that 42 percent of Americans do not approve of Mitt Romney's running mate, which isn't too bad considering most Americans don't approve of Paul Ryan's running mate." –Jimmy Fallon

JoAnnaSmith1

AFTER YOU READ THIS, SHUT THE HELL UP

EEngineer

It doesn't take much intelligence to look at the last 3 and a half years. Has it worked?

...the numbers for Bush's last three months. Between October and November, 597,000 jobs were lost; between November and December, 681,000 were lost; and between December and January, 741,000 were lost.

April 2012 marks the 26th straight month of gains in private-sector employment, for a total of 4.2 million private-sector jobs.

DJIA Dec 26, 2008 8515
DJIA Aug 31, 2012 13090

Dec 29, 2008 (Bloomberg) U.S. corporate earnings fell for a sixth-straight quarter, the longest streak in at least 20 years, as consumer spending on automobiles, homes and retailers collapsed.

May 11, 2012 Fortune magazine released its ranking of the 500 biggest US corporations Monday, which showed that they received a record-breaking $824 billion in combined profits in 2011, up 16 percent from 2010.

AND THIS,

EEngineer

As the The Center for American Progress Action Fund reported, working with numbers from the Congressional Budget Office, "Paul Ryan supported nearly all of the budget-busting bills of the last decade."

CAP also reported:

In January 2001, before any Bush administration policies had been passed, the Congressional Budget Office, or CBO, was projecting budget surpluses totaling $5.6 trillion over following decade. Instead, we got cumulative deficits totaling $6.1 trillion, an $11.7 trillion difference. CBO estimates that laws passed by Congress and signed by Presidents Bush and Barack Obama are responsible for $8.5 trillion of that difference. Rep. Ryan cast his vote for about 80 percent of that $8.5 trillion.

NOW THIS

So, how do the actual Obama annual budgets look?

Courtesy of Marketwatch-

• In fiscal 2010 (the first Obama budget) spending fell 1.8% to $3.46 trillion.
• In fiscal 2011, spending rose 4.3% to $3.60 trillion.
• In fiscal 2012, spending is set to rise 0.7% to $3.63 trillion, according to the Congressional Budget Office’s estimate of the budget that was agreed to last August.
• Finally in fiscal 2013 — the final budget of Obama’s term — spending is scheduled to fall 1.3% to $3.58 trillion. Read the CBO’s latest budget outlook.

Now shut the hell up, its not just obama spending but its Bush as well and Ryan was there for it all and voted for 80% of it.

so i will start calling the deficts Bush, Obama and Now Ryans!!!!!

White Collar Auto

Wow, I see all the libbies got the "Ryan-Lyin" talking point.

How about you all defend last nights speeches based on this AP Article:

Just the facts; Stiff collar:

Are you better off?

According to a study released last week by the liberal-leaning National Employment Law Project, low-wage fields such as retail sales and food service are adding jobs nearly three times as fast as higher-paid occupations.

Conclusion:

The figure of 4.5 million jobs is accurate if you look at the most favorable period and category for the administration. But overall, there are still fewer people working now than when Obama took office at the height of the recession.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/05/politics/fact-check-obama-jobs/index.html

===============================================

Oh, and about that health care thing, people have already gotten rebate checks in the mail.

Besides, Ryan has to try to drive this wedge because for the past month or two, Republicans have been trying to embrace Clinton like they "built" him.

Well, he's about to show them that it takes a village to build Bill Clinton, and it's not their gated village.

What a sorry bunch of unimaginative losers.

Hmm,

I'd say Ryan's timing is a smidgen off plumb, eh? I mean, he's already scheduled to speak in SUPPORT of President Obama. Is THAT the wedge he's speaking of?

Missed his mark, I'd say.

PS. Why the hell am I subjected to the 'stylings' of the moron's I have on ignore? Come on Newsvine, don't forsake me now when I need you most!

Link please and I don't mean the "non-partisan" Policy Tax Center. The difference they are also proposing to cut spending. They failed the last time but the current Administration is doing nothing.

https://www.politify.com/election/national

Face it, Romney's a dud.

WCA --

Gee Anna Molly, I wasn't asking you, but thanks for deflecting from the question.

Too funny. All you EVER do is deflect from the question and take cheap potshots.

But I don't take it personally, even though you intended it that way. You just don't like anyone who is willing to give it right back to you.

Especially an uppity woman.

Tax Man --

getting desperate huh. Something tells me neanderthals werent too worried about geopolitical borders

No, and neither are Republicans, really. As if they could define them.

They're much more interested in the borders of a woman's reproductive organs.

The old divide and conquor technique. Bubba and Obama are in much more agreement and support by Clinton for Obama has increased. Since his Mrs. didn't get the nod and is doing a stellar job as Sec. of State Bill knows and is confident in his support for Obama. Perhaps Hillary will run in '16 for POTUS but, age being a factor, I doubt it. Clinton knows that tax cuts alone are not the solution. He knows that there must be both revenue increases coupled with sensible spending cuts to make it happen. He left office with a surplus and in less than a year his successor blew the whole thing and started the downward spiral toward the largest recession since the Great Depression. Obama has tried to fix the problem. He probably could have done more but the alternative would be worse. With a cooperateve Congress great things can be done to fix the economic woes of this country.

Brian B. who is running for Pope or Bishop? The platform of the Democratic party is all inclusive which means it includes more than just Christians. Look at the audience. You'll see Sikh turbans, for example. Christianity has played a major role in the foundation of the US but remember that neither Thomas Jefferson nor Ben Franklin were Christians in the sense of the normal definition but Deists. The Constitution clearly states that the government should not sponsor any religion or favor one over another. One is free to worship or not as one sees fit.

rukidding said: Clinton is the only Democrat that American citizens do not despise for some reason.

Thats why they have him speak. He can still draw a crowd.

Might have a little problem tonight... it's the opening game of the NFL... sounds like a little competition to me... If I have my choice... clinton... NFL... clinton... NFL... I choose the Giants vs Cowboys. I'll tevo clinton.

But I don't take it personally, even though you intended it that way. You just don't like anyone who is willing to give it right back to you.

Watch out, soon he'll go full blown emotional on us.

I gave you a chance to answer and you deflected again to a personal attack.

Yeah, because you never do that.

Watch out, soon he'll go full blown emotional on us

I smell victim mode rapidly approaching!

Stiff Collar

You do know President Obama has created more jobs than Bush did in 8 years???

In Adolf Hitler’s Nazi Germany, his minister of propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, said, “If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth,” and as Americans witnessed for the past decade, Republicans have had a measure of success transforming unbelievable drivel into the truth. Goebbels would be proud of you whacked out righties even, more since Fact checkers, even FOX NEWS NOISE, as being dead wrong.

Lean Forward

4 more 4 44

Obama/Biden 2012

I smell victim mode rapidly approaching!

Red alert! All crew to battle stations!

You don't have to repeat everything they tell you to say you know.

Why? You do that. It's why whenever somebody presents a well-constructed argument based on logic and facts, you either deflect or ignore.

Odd. That's the same question that many ask about your mother .

Translation: JoAnnaSmith1 isn't well-practiced.

I have a question... How come the democrats have taken God out of their platform? Who are the democrats trying to please?

I'll begin my answer with a question of my own...why are Republicans so intent on having God in their platform?

When Senator Rubio spoke last week, he said, "Faith in our Creator is the most important American value of all."

A recent Pew Center poll* says that 19% of those surveyed have no religious beliefs. Does this mean that in Senator Rubio's view that 60 million Americans lack what he considers the primary American value and are, therefore, incapable of being good Americans? Would it shock Senator Rubio to learn that some of the atheists are our teachers and our police officers and our fire fighters? How would he feel knowing that some of them serve in our military? Would it shock him to know that they work in Fortune 500 companies?

...and, hell, some of them are probably even Republicans who believe in smaller government and lower taxes and less spending and bans on abortion and gay marriage.

Like it or not, we are a nation of atheists AND Jews AND Muslims AND Buddhists AND Hindus AND Wiccans AND Scientologists AND Mormons AND Christians.

*www.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2012-07-19/no-religion-affiliation/56344976/1

Jeff - Stop spamming the boards

BB,

When you call out your own for doing the same thing, you might earn a tich more crediblity.

Are YOU man enough to take the challenge, because WCA didn't have the balls to do it!

He ran like a scalded cat...

because WCA didn't have the balls

I can predict exactly where this conversation will go. WhiteCollarAuto will post something about FRR's "obsession" with his balls (or lack-thereof, who am I to know?). However, I will then be forced to point out WhiteCollarAuto's similar "obsession" with SeekingSanity's balls.

believe in a God.

A 'god' is lowercase. The 'God' is uppercase. But being the devout Christian you are, you knew that.

@Xabre

Link please and I don't mean the "non-partisan" Policy Tax Center. The difference they are also proposing to cut spending. They failed the last time but the current Administration is doing nothing.

https://www.politify.com/election/national

By merging these two data sources, we get a comprehensive understanding of how much every American household is taxed, as well as the particular benefits each receives from the government. We base our merging technique on the standard practices developed by the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, a non-partisan think tank:

http://blog.politify.com/election-2012-sources-methodology/

Oops! The usual circular sources that lead back to the same result. Tell you what I'll start citing the Heritage and Cato institutes but to be objective I'll insert "non-partisan" in front of their names.

Tax Man --

funny Good Golly miss Molly was abscent for quite sometime after the failed Walker recall. Busted liberal crystal ball, engineered and crafted with union labor and doesnt work LOL

Sorry, nice try, but actually I've been busier as heck at work for the past 3 or 4 months. Even though you conservative ideologues don't believe that. More proof that the economy is looking up.

Why, did you think I was afraid to take on the likes of YOU? Don't make me laugh.

Brianb --

You will definitely have to show me where the Treaty of Tripoli supersedes the Constitution.

I never said it did. The Treaty of Tripoli was written just a few years after the Constitution by pretty much the same folks, and it provides a fair amount of insight -- in the form of enforceable law -- as to what the Framers meant. You really do need to study a little about how the law works, Brianb. Not to mention how I work.

White Collar Auto --

Nah AM, I loves me some "uppity" women as you put it.

I gave you a chance to answer and you deflected again to a personal attack.

LoL I already answered. You just didn't like the answer.

But that's rather like pot calling kettle black, isn't it? You and the personal attack, I mean?

Wedded at the hip.

And if you think I don't get the part about the uppity woman ... well, you know I do.

In your dreams, sailor.

DaNoid --

I'll begin my answer with a question of my own...why are Republicans so intent on having God in their platform?

When Senator Rubio spoke last week, he said, "Faith in our Creator is the most important American value of all."

You are right on. Rubio was the appointed and anointed as the heat of the God Squad. The Republicans wouldn't have been pandering to the faith of Hispanics, would they?

Too bad Democrats found a more articulate Hispanic guy for THEIR keynote address.

Rubio v. Castro in 2016. Bring it on and we'll see how God sorts it out.

Oops! The usual circular sources that lead back to the same result. Tell you what I'll start citing the Heritage and Cato institutes but to be objective I'll insert "non-partisan" in front of their names.

Translation: Alan doesn't like it because it's not what he wants to hear. Your candidate's a clown, bro.

Lookie there, my little stalker xabre can't seem to get enough of me. Glad to know the dog whistle still works.

You really are that desperate for attention aren't you? Probably why you need to think women are fantasizing about your balls (or lack-thereof)...

Brianb-999431

Jeff - Stop spamming the boards. I showed you earlier where your numbers of job increases are bogus. They fall way short of normal. In otherwords I see you haven't learned yet... but continue to spread your misinformation

what wrong, don't like to see how much bush F&&ked up!!!

this part about all the debt ryan voted for Joanna, No Jo they think the fraud is a choir boy

CAP also reported:

In January 2001, before any Bush administration policies had been passed, the Congressional Budget Office, or CBO, was projecting budget surpluses totaling $5.6 trillion over following decade. Instead, we got cumulative deficits totaling $6.1 trillion, an $11.7 trillion difference. CBO estimates that laws passed by Congress and signed by Presidents Bush and Barack Obama are responsible for $8.5 trillion of that difference. Rep. Ryan cast his vote for about 80 percent of that $8.5 trillion.

see Ryan is responsible for 8.5 trillion in debt!!!!

can't wait till biden grills his ass on this during the debates.

Look at all these panicked and outmaneuvered Teabuggerers on here. I smell their desperation. Day 1 of the conventon BLOWS AWAY all 3 days of the yawnfest called the RNC convention

We got Bill, We Got Juian, We Got Michelle, We Got Deval and we have Elizabeth Warren ......and the Foo Fighters!

The GOP has....well.....an empty suit, a senile actor, taliking to an empty chair to imagiunary people all while touiting an imaginary plan without policy or solutions and lies about everything, lies about welfare, lies about Ryans voting record, lies about Obamas religion, country of birth and evything else. Even got Ryan lying about his Marathon time,

You just cant trust Ryan/Romney. Romney has NO CORE and the dynamix bores dont have any ideas or SOLUTIONS.

Romney is a liar and a failed candidate that even the GOP faithful cant pump up, even in their own convention (chuckle)

Man, lying comes easy to you doesn't it?

Not me sweet-cheeks, there is much confusion on your part!

Still a coward... eh?

Are you raising your kids to lie the way you do?

What a fine role model you are for them, just like your idol Lyin Ryan.

No wonder your a conservative, lying comes naturally to you & your minions!

I called out Job1 and you ran away like your hair was on fire, every regular reader here knows whose full of @!$%# little buddy!

“Private sector jobs during this administration 4.5 million is indeed the right number. The problem is, as we all know, there were many jobs lost. In fact, there were 5 million private sector jobs lost.”

The Washington Post points out that the number doesn’t account for the United State’s growing population

No matter which figures you use, or how you interpret them, they can’t obscure the fact that the economy’s still weak, and has rebounded from the great recession slowly. But they also show that — under Obama’s watch, and despite GOP bromides about growing government — the economy has hemorrhaged public sector jobs. Indeed, the GOP’s argument falls apart when you look at private sector jobs alone. And it’s likely that before the election in November, it will fall apart altogether

“At the current rate of hiring, Obama could easily pass into positive net jobs territory before the election.”

http://www.newsy.com/videos/have-4-5-million-jobs-really-been-added

======================================================

Despite the lies and Obstruction ffom the GOP/ T potty-Turds president Obama has created Jobs. Can you imagine how many J-0-B-S there would be if the GOP/ T potty-Turds have gotten rid of public sector jobs. After all, it's the middle class that spurs the economy.

Lean Forward

4 more years 4 44

Obama/Biden 2012

I guess when you have no real policies other than try another re-run of the old Ronnie Raygunz trickle down BS and you start getting desperate then you go to your tried and true fallback position of trying to be divisive.

OBAMA- 2012

Romney- 1040

Are you raising your kids to lie the way you do?

I certainly hope WhiteCollarAuto does not have children. Of course, that would imply a woman would have him, and his "obsession" with SeekingSanity's balls...

I have a question, brian b: why are the right wing nut jobs trying to turn the United States of America into a theocracy in violation of the Constitution? Is that because the right wing HATES the Constitution? It appears the answer is yes.

Poor JoAnna, not only did you refuse to apologize for you comment that could be taken as a threat on the First Thoughts, you know NOTHING about the Pledge of Allegiance. Did you think the Founders wrote it?

It was written by one Frances Bellamy, a Christian Socialist as an advertising jingle for a children's magazine he edited. The original version DID NOT CONTAIN THE WORDS UNDER GOD. Those were added by the Joe McCarthy zealots in the '50's, the theory being that it would suss out the Godless Communists.

So when you stand and say the Pledge, poor JoAnna, you are saluting the work of a Socialist!

Which never fails to make me laugh hysterically!

Does everyone see the box in front of FIESTY's name ?? it says DUMB which is what she proves everytime she posts in here

Translation: Alan doesn't like it because it's not what he wants to hear. Your candidate's a clown, bro.

Fine with me. I asked for a source of your claim and you post a link that uses the same "non-partisan" source.

BTW I think your candidate is a bag of hot air spewing meaningless platitudes (in fact I think Romney's pretty much the same), however, I think one might actually try and cut spending where as the other will try and keep the balls in the air until he's out of office in 2016.

AM said: I never said it did. The Treaty of Tripoli was written just a few years after the Constitution by pretty much the same folks, and it provides a fair amount of insight -- in the form of enforceable law -- as to what the Framers meant. You really do need to study a little about how the law works, Brianb. Not to mention how I work.

How you work doesn't matter in the least... if how you work is any example of how you respond... I'd question your work... you never quoted the Constitution where it shows the separation between church and state... The liberals have a false expression of what is written. They've been doing it for years and for years they have been wrong.

JoannaSmith1,

You do realize that under God wasn't added to the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954, right? Because of the fear of those "godless" communists.

The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy (1855–1931), who was a Baptist minister, a Christian socialist. (OMG a socialist!)

Bellamy’s original Pledge read as follows:

I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

The recital was accompanied with a salute to the flag known as the Bellamy salute, described in detail by Bellamy. During World War II, the salute was replaced with a hand-over-heart gesture because the original form involved stretching the arm out towards the flag in a manner that resembled the later Nazi salute.

In 1923, the words, “the Flag of the United States of America” were added. At this time it read:

“I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

In 1954, in response to the Communist threat of the times, President Eisenhower encouraged Congress to add the words “under God,” creating the 31-word pledge we say today. Bellamy’s daughter objected to this alteration.

Fine with me. I asked for a source of your claim and you post a link that uses the same "non-partisan" source.

Yeah, it's partisan because you think it is. That's why going off the candidates' own website, IRS, and census data were also among the sources.

however, I think one might actually try and cut spending where as the other will try and keep the balls in the air until he's out of office in 2016.

Yeah, that source said precisely which one would actually close the deficit. Of course, you can hold your beliefs in 'Lyin Ryan', how many lies did he tell in his acceptance speech again? Great role model.

Let me get this straight. Republicans for several weeks, Ryan included, have been touting Bill Clinton as a hero, cheering his years of economic prosperity and attempting to drive a wedge between democrats. Seriously, do GOPers not recall it was republicans who impeached Clinton? Do they not recall that Clinton raised taxes? Do they they recall that President Obama wants to raise the high-end wage earner tax rates back to the Clinton levels? Do republicans think all Americans are stupid or just assume conservatives are stupid enough to buy what Lyin' Ryan is selling? Oh, wait, judging from some of the conservative poster comments--it's the later part of the last question.

Andie, thank you for posting the information about the Pledge. I've rebutted some with it a few times myself. As a child, I learned the original Pledge; in 1954, I had to re-learn the latest version.

AM - since you didn't quote the Constitution, I'll do it for you:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Funny thing about the 1st Amendment is that is has never gone away... the liberals try to change it by not quoting the entire thing but they have been known to lie about what they want.

This country was founded on Christian principles.

You couldn't be more wrong. The people in it were predominantly Christian but one of their greatest fears was religion in politics. You clearly know nothing about the Founding Fathers.

It appears as though you think Christians aren't allowed to express their religion... that's taking political correctness to a new level... sounds like you are reaching towards the standards of Communist Romania or Cuba... Will you support the eradication of Christians in this country because 19% don't believe?

expressing their religion is fine, in fact i'd encourage it if it makes them better people. Legislating that religion into law that then forces non-believers to follow those tenets goes directly against the First Amendment, and the Republican platform intends to do just this. i vehemently oppose this.

Outlawing abortion and contraceptives (and this is what the republican platform states they will do) based on religious beliefs is no different than what islamic fundamentalists do...

Newday said: I have a question, brian b: why are the right wing nut jobs trying to turn the United States of America into a theocracy in violation of the Constitution? Is that because the right wing HATES the Constitution? It appears the answer is yes.

If you could ask your question with out the name calling it would actually enhance your maturity level.

Your question is bogus. It is filled with things that aren't happening, aren't true and shows your total lack of understanding... Maybe you should try again, without the name calling, false premise and a false conclusion...

And for Brian, and I have to tell you, I am getting tired of posting this, so will do the Reader's Digest version. The First Amendment contains the language ...Congress shall make no law RESPECTING THE ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

President Thomas Jefferson forever defined what that meant in his 1802 Letter to the Danbury Baptists, where the phrase "wall of separation" is found. The Supreme Court has used this definition by Jefferson as the deciding factor in matters regarding the Separation, those cases can be found on line.

The Treaty of Tripoli is important because it contains the language (paraphrasing) that the United States is not a Christian country. The importance in this Treaty is because of when it was developed (during President Washington's time) and the unanimous acceptance of it by Congress, where many Framers of the Constitution were serving, as well as the President who signed it, President John Adams.

If you want to live in a theocracy, move. The United States is secular.

As to your post at 1.82, Brian....deflection. You have no answer.

What was Paul Ryan's net worth in 2008 vs. today? What about Mitt Romney? I'll guarantee you BOTH are much better off today than they were when Obama won election.

Feisty: If lying does not come easy to a person in the auto industry (WCA) their head is stuck where the sun don't shine. ☺

Obama/Biden 2012

If you could ask your question with out the name calling it would actually enhance your maturity level.

Coming from you BrianB, who likes to threaten physical violence against other posters? Yeah, you're an excellent poster-child for maturity.

What part of $16,000,000,000,000,000 don't you get? Yes it began under Bush but he has been gone for 4 years now and the trend is still upwards. Where does it end?

It already has my friend and it's about to with a vengeance. Can you say sequester? Sure you can. I like the way your little lips move when you say that.

Sequestration is what was agreed upon in order to get the Tea Baggers to raise the credit limit. So, January 1st it will get real interesting in this country as the entire federal budget is slashed across the board, especially in the red states that rely on DOD funds. Then watch what happens if the Tea Baggers manage to stay in Congress when the credit limit comes up later this year. The American Taliban will finally have the opportunity to do what the Soviets couldn't do in over 50 years...end the United States of American as we know it.

Newday said: President Thomas Jefferson forever defined what that meant in his 1802 Letter to the Danbury Baptists, where the phrase "wall of separation" is found.

Is the Danbury letter the Constitution? I don't believe this country ever adopted anybody's version of what the Constitution means... FAIL.

The Treaty of Tripoli is important because it contains the language (paraphrasing) that the United States is not a Christian country. The importance in this Treaty is because of when it was developed (during President Washington's time) and the unanimous acceptance of it by Congress, where many Framers of the Constitution were serving, as well as the President who signed it, President John Adams.

I still say that the Constitution has never been overridden except by amendments. No treaty has ever overwritten what is in the Constitution. I don't care how many different courts use different documents in their rulings... the Constitution can't be overridden except by a 2/3's vote of Congress and adoption by 2/3's of the states. Another fail. Have any more?

I have an idea for you and AM... before you continue with your ancillary examples that liberals want to use to override the Constitution, show me the Amendment that supports your theories. K?

Tzalarian said: expressing their religion is fine, in fact i'd encourage it if it makes them better people. Legislating that religion into law that then forces non-believers to follow those tenets goes directly against the First Amendment,

Show me ONE person that wants to legislate religion into law... sources please. Viable sources...

Sequestration is what was agreed upon in order to get the Tea Baggers to approve the credit limit. So, January 1st it will get real interesting in this country, especially in the red states that rely on DOD funds. Then watch what happens if the Tea Baggers manage to stay in Congress when the credit limit comes up later this year. The American Taliban will finally have the opportunity to do what the Soviets couldn't do in over 50 years...end the United States of American as we know it.

Seems your definition of red states is out of date.

Updated data released by the Center for Security Policy this week shows that the five states that would absorb the greatest fiscal blow under sequestration are Virginia, California, Texas, Maryland, and Florida.

As to the second part of your comment it makes no sense. Are you arguing that we should do nothing or just whining that you can't keep spending money you don't have?

I always love it when name calling is used to advance an argument.

Xabre said: You couldn't be more wrong. The people in it were predominantly Christian but one of their greatest fears was religion in politics. You clearly know nothing about the Founding Fathers.

Xabre, I'm sorry but I have to put you on ignore. You are like a little child who keeps on interrupting adults while they are having a discussion. Too bad you couldn't tame your immaturity, but I guess you can't help it. Your questions have little meaning and I'm just tired of seeing them. Come back in about 20 years when you grow up.

Brian, you have real difficulty understanding this don't you?

The Constitution forever defines this country as secular through the language ....Congress shall make no law REGARDING THE ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION...

Jefferson defines what is meant by that in his 1802 Letter to the Danbury Baptists, which contains the language regarding the Wall of Separation...

The Supreme Court accepts Jefferson's definition as the standard.

Now brian, for ALL the bananas today: answer this question:

What is the role of the Supreme Court in the United States.

Eyes on your own paper, neatness and spelling count.

Xabre, I'm sorry but I have to put you on ignore. You are like a little child who keeps on interrupting adults while they are having a discussion. Too bad you couldn't tame your immaturity, but I guess you can't help it. Your questions have little meaning and I'm just tired of seeing them. Come back in about 20 years when you grow up.

Oh my God the irony!

Brian you can't put Xabie on ignore, heck he's easy to deal with.

Are you arguing that we should do nothing or just whining that you can't keep spending money you don't have?

This is the same guy that said we gots bin laden what you got? and no it wasn't Biden this time

Xabre -

And JoAnnaSmith1 resorts to deflection again, as she is incapable of presenting intelligent responses.

Bill Clinton (with a repub House and Senate), represents the only economic competence the dems have had in how many decades? Clinton is the Key note speaker - the savior for the amateur community organizer / president. JoAnnaSmith merely pointed out the incongruity between Clinton and Obama from family values to spending / economic policies.

So, the real question that needs to be asked .... is "she incapable of presenting intelligent responses" or are you dumber than the worms in Feisty stool sample and simply too stupid to even understand an intelligent response?

Speaking of stupidity ....

Will Paul Ryan explain how Romney intends to pay for his $900B in proposed tax cuts?

Revenue (with the Clinton tax rate) by year .....

Revenue in 2001 was $1.991 trillion.

Revenue in 2002 was $1.853 trillion.

Revenue in 2003 was $1.782 trillion.

Bush tax cuts and effect on revenue ....

Revenue in 2005 was $2.153 trillion – UP 17%

Revenue in 2006 was $2.406 trillion – UP 26%

Revenue in 2007 was $2.568 trillion – UP 31%

Revenue in 2008 was $2.524 trillion – UP 29%

So does a tax cut that generates revenue 29% above the previous rate ..... "COST" money /revenue?

How do "you pay for something" - supposed lost revenue from tax cuts - when those very tax cuts generated 29% additional revenue?

Yea ... I know ..... way, way, way over your head, right?

Can we put an end to this God stuff? I have it from Her word that She hates Jews, Muslims and Christians equally. However, She does have a soft spot for Atheists.

Brianb--Alan already taught me that Xabre is just a flaming troll that loves to throw out factual inaccuracies to get you to argue with him off track. I wouldnt be surprised if he and Seeking Sanity werent the same posters as their style is very similar. She is the designated personal attack dog calling people idiots and unintelligent but refuses to every provide a substantive comment and he is flame thrower of wildly inaccurate facts that take attempt to divert you from real issues. They are accolytes of Jen or Fiesty and really dont have a purpose but campaigning for Obama.

Oh my God the irony!

OH NOES!

BB put you on ignore... typical response from the little man when he gets hammered!

How evuh will you be able to sleep tonight!

Rather than ignoring you, the parasites time would be better spent looking for a J-O-B and take care of his kids!

PS: Be careful NDD - you might be next! lol

I'm with you, bcwc!

I'm sure he will, Feisty, but it is a worthless effort trying to educate brian. I have given it up as a lost cause. He simply cannot be taught.

Oh God. More irony coming from Kirk. This is just too much for one day!

Brianb--Alan already taught me that Xabre is just a flaming troll that loves to throw out factual inaccuracies to get you to argue with him off track.

Yeah Kirk, that's why your posts are steeped with logical retorts.

Yea ... I know ..... way, way, way over your head, right?

Hey Bob, check your sources again; federal income as a % GDP went down after the tax cuts, and never recovered to previous levels. Of course, any economic figure as a % GDP is way over your head, right?

http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4ec4ea2ceab8eaa632000013/chart.jpg

Would you like to try again Robert?

Newday said: The Constitution forever defines this country as secular through the language ....Congress shall make no law REGARDING THE ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION...

That is not the complete statement. How come you want to parse what is written? There is NO period after that phrase. Basic English... that's all it takes.

Jefferson defines what is meant by that in his 1802 Letter to the Danbury Baptists, which contains the language regarding the Wall of Separation...

The Supreme Court accepts Jefferson's definition as the standard.

Now brian, for ALL the bananas today: answer this question:

What is the role of the Supreme Court in the United States.

Eyes on your own paper, neatness and spelling count.

The supreme court cannot change what is written in the Constitution. Why can't you see that as a threshold issue? No single entity can. It is written as it is written without a period after the first phrase... tell me when the rules of English have been changed?

You can argue this all day long, but unless you produce a copy of the Constitution with a period after the first phrase as a division in the precept, the entire sentence is still joined together and holds it's original meaning... We can't establish a religion and the government can't stop us from expressing our religion. It's a very even and equal base. Liberals want to uneven it. You can't!

Well, "brian"...my religion celebrates gay marriage and is emphatic that the soul does not enter the body until after the birth of the child. Why is your evil religion interfering with MY rights as an American?

Funny thing about the thoughtless teabaggers...the Constitution never seems to apply to them or their christo-fascist agenda.

Bravo kirk but i think that list is much deeper then just seeking and Xabie. I am no better to some extent, depends on the liberal typing. But to Xabies defense, no way light years ahead of seeking. at least he can argue and not just say youre stupid. Speaking of real issues when are the liberal posters and DNC going to address that instead of stupid remarks about 'puttin y'all back in chains'?

BB put you on ignore... typical response from the little man when he gets hammered!

Xabie talks of irony as Fisty chimes in with this little gem

Funny thing about the thoughtless teabaggers...the Constitution never seems to apply to them or their christo-fascist agenda.

please explain what that means? Shocked and disgusted indeed?

the ignore button is not working today ... Caegar's ashes are all over my screen.

Caesar said:

Brian you can't put Xabie on ignore, heck he's easy to deal with.

Are you arguing that we should do nothing or just whining that you can't keep spending money you don't have?

This is the same guy that said we gots bin laden what you got? and no it wasn't Biden this time

I'm just tired of his foolishness. It's like arguing with a 3rd grader. I know when to stop the argument while he wants to keep stomping his foot on the ground and asking for more cookies. I'd suggest to him to go play with his X-Box and leave the adults alone.

Andy, beat me to it. "under God" added in 1954.

Brianb,

First, why is it important that God have anything to do with our governance?

Second, if most of the "Christian" principles are already part of public life, why do you care?

I'm just tired of his foolishness. It's like arguing with a 3rd grader.

Yikes, that would be difficult. That's at least two years above your level of education. Maybe you should threaten me with bodily harm. I'm sure that would make me go away.

please explain what that means? Shocked and disgusted indeed?

He's making the argument that Republicans want religion in government as long as it corresponds to their beliefs. The instant that religion's (or another's) beliefs are against their own or views as too 'progressive', then religion suddenly has no place in government.

"Ryan wears a Greek Suit" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BCWC said: the ignore button is not working today ... Caegar's ashes are all over my screen.

I see that... but when it comes back online, all ignored people will go away... unless First Read changed it permanently I can suffer through the inconvenience....

Wow - A few arguments and countering posts mostly non inflammatory responses on a few topics. Glad to see a rare thread without a graveyard of collapsed posts! Lately the new crowd of posters dislike dialogue so much they shut everything down.

Was going to respond to BrianB but it seems NewDayR and others responded already. So as to not be accused of spamming, I already provided my input on the Democrats platform and values in an earlier post.

SmBusOwnerinNY said:

Brianb,

First, why is it important that God have anything to do with our governance?

Second, if most of the "Christian" principles are already part of public life, why do you care?

I am not going to type all this again.... Do yourself a favor if you are really interested by scrolling upward and read my reasoning... if you aren't that interested, I don't care.

Caegar's ashes are all over my screen.

im hurt. but somehow i'll survive without the nermal.

Yellowdog said: Wow - A few arguments and countering posts mostly non inflammatory responses on a few topics. Glad to see a rare thread without a graveyard of collapsed posts!

Nice, isn't it? When name slinging isn't happening, we can actually have some actual discussions. Differing opinions are good... it's been a learning experience and a good one.

Nice, isn't it? When name slinging isn't happening

Or in the case of your posts, death threats.

Caesar said:

BB put you on ignore... typical response from the little man when he gets hammered!

Xabie talks of irony as Fisty chimes in with this little gem

Funny thing about the thoughtless teabaggers...the Constitution never seems to apply to them or their christo-fascist agenda.

please explain what that means? Shocked and disgusted indeed?

Little does the queen know that I've had him on ignore for months. Dumbfux is only viewed in on when I feel like it... It's better to ignore stupidity than try to fall for it.

Lying Ryan should stop guessing what former Pres. Clinton will say tonight and start telling the truth!

In other words brian, if you answer the question properly, you must admit that you are wrong.

So let us reduce it down to the simplest thing we can.

Here is the problem you are having:

You want to NOT find the Wall in the Constitution. What you can't admit to is that no one CARES what YOU want.

The Supreme Court found it. Read Reynolds v US, 1879.

And learn the difference between actual truth, and codifying what poor BRIAN wants as truth.

Your grade for this essay test? F. As always.

The two have nothing in common.

Little does the queen know that I've had him on ignore for months.

RIIIIGHT! *wink wink*

Why, BB, you're one of my biggest fans!

It's okay, you can be honest, everyone already knows it!

Get a J-O-B and take care of your kids... deadbeat daddy!

Here is one for you Beverly in Chicago....

Illinois Gov. Pat Quinn went on the offensive, saying Romney had failed to deliver on campaign promises he made while running to become governor of Massachusetts. But some of Quinn’s talking points were a stretch.

Quinn: Mitt Romney promised Massachusetts three things: more jobs, less debt and smaller government. Then he left his state 47th out of 50 in job growth, added $2.6 billion in debt and on his watch, government jobs grew six times faster than private-sector jobs. What does Romney promise today? More jobs, less debt and smaller government. But he didn’t do it then, and he won’t do it now.

We’ve covered some similar claims before. Let’s start with the claim that Romney “left his state 47th out of 50 in job growth.” That’s a slightly different twist on a recurring Democratic attack line. It’s true that over Romney’s entire four years as governor, the state ranked 47th out of 50 states in percentage of job growth. But that’s a four-year, cumulative number. The state’s ranking actually improved while Romney was in office.

In the 12 months before Romney took office, the state ranked 50th in job creation, and by his final year, the state ranked 28th. Quinn would have been more accurate to say Romney “left his state” in 28th place, not 47th.

Quinn also made the misleading claim that Romney “added $2.6 billion in debt.” That’s a reference to long-term bond debt, used for capital improvements, such as paving roads, building bridges and repairing public college buildings and courthouses.

To be sure, long-term debt increased by $2.7 billion during Romney’s tenure. But that’s nothing out of the ordinary. It increased by $4 billion in the four years before Romney took office. State debt rose under Romney, but more slowly than before.

Last, Quinn said that under Romney, “government jobs grew six times faster than private-sector jobs.” Not exactly. Private-sector jobs in Massachusetts climbed by a modest 39,500, a little less than a 1.5 percent jump. Meanwhile state government jobs increased by 3,100 jobs, a 2.8 percent increase (all government jobs, including local, state and federal, increased by 1,300 jobs). That’s a larger percentage increase for government jobs than private-sector ones, but a far smaller number of jobs.

Oh yes.. there is a plethora of disinformation that was spread last night....I would venture to guess about the same amount that came from last weeks RNC.... check your facts!

bob-1805084 - So tell me Bob, if Clinton's revenue decreased every year and Bush's revenue increased every year, how did Clinton leave office with a budget surplus and Bush left with a deficit? Boy, GW sure must have spent a whole lot of money. Especially since both wars did not show up on the budget (off budget emergency funding).

Castro, 4.5 million new jobs? What? You ment 300,000 less jobs under Obama. Right? Where oh where is First Reads fact checkers now? New poll has Obama under water with women ABC-Washington Post has Obama with a 46% approval and 50% unfavorable. A drop from 57% approval and 39% unfavorable in April of this year! Where the hell is Chuck Todd and his merry band of fact checkers that where all over Ryan?

I'll answer your question, not as a republican, but as a conservative... This country was founded on Christian principles. You will probably squeal like a stuck pig over that statement... but if you do, it only means you weren't paying attention during history class. Many liberals want to rewrite history to say it was on freedom of religion. I won't go into the long litany of why it was Christian principles, so I'll leave it up to you to find out... or not.

Since only 19% of the citizens are with no religious belief's, why do the other 81% have to bow to their wishes... if they don't like the expression of religion, they can turn a blind eye to it... it's their choice... and since you defend those people, who gives them preference over those of us that actually believe in God? Do you actually believe Christians are supposed to be tolerant of that nonsense? No where in the Bible is tolerance a precept.

It appears as though you think Christians aren't allowed to express their religion... that's taking political correctness to a new level... sounds like you are reaching towards the standards of Communist Romania or Cuba... Will you support the eradication of Christians in this country because 19% don't believe?

Your last question is easy...no.

Your answer tells me you have missed the point. We can argue about the Founding Fathers' intent until we're all blue in the face but since none of them are still around to answer for themselves it's all speculation on our part. What matters is where we are right now.

Your answer makes one huge assumption...that the 81% are all Christian. They are not all Christian, however, as they are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc, etc. As such, that 81% does not all believe the same thing. If I were to break it down even further, Christian denominations differ on some tenets of faith as well as social and ethical issues.

That, Brian, is the problem with Senator Rubio's statement. It is a statement that divides us even though Senator Rubio may not have intended it to. As individuals, we have the right to believe differently than others and we should not be treated as "less American" based on what one person believes over another. The Founding Fathers confirmed that by giving us not only the First Amendment...

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

...but also Article IV of the Constitution itself...

"...but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

When you go out of the way to insert "God" into your platform and speak of "faith in our Creator" as the fundamental American value you risk playing beliefs against each other by asking the question of whose god is best and, "What about all those other faiths that do not believe the same thing you do?"

Xabre -

Are you stupid for just a liar?

Revenue as percentage of GDP was 16.1% in 2004.

With the tax cuts having time to take effect ....

Revenue as percentage of GDP grew to 17.3% in 2005

Revenue as percentage of GDP grew to 18.2% in 2006

Revenue as percentage of GDP grew to 18.5% in 2007

After the economic collapse (unrelated credit issue for the dummies) Revenue as percentage of GDP was 17.6% in 2008 - still way above 16.1% at higher rate.

Source is Obama's White House http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

Xabre

Will Paul Ryan explain how Romney intends to pay for his $900B in proposed tax cuts? Or will he just have me arrested?

same as Bush - borrow the money and then stick the next guy with the mortgage and the interest on the mortgage.

bob-1805084

Xabre -

Are you stupid for just a liar?

Revenue as percentage of GDP was 16.1% in 2004.

With the tax cuts having time to take effect ....

Revenue as percentage of GDP grew to 17.3% in 2005

Revenue as percentage of GDP grew to 18.2% in 2006

Revenue as percentage of GDP grew to 18.5% in 2007

so with all this REVENUE you rave about, how did Bush manage to borrow heavily? And all this prior to the Financial Meltdown!

Basically what you are saying is the DESPITE the money coming in, Bush was waaaaaaay overspending. Thanks for pointing that out.

geo-1957883

Castro, 4.5 million new jobs? What? You ment 300,000 less jobs under Obama. Right?

the first three months - Jan-March of 2009 - showed record job losses of over 2,000,000. So tell me, who do you blame those three months on because even Romney AGREES that the 1st six month are not to be counted against ANY new president.

Yellowdog--the problem is that we get interrupted with good discourse by Jen, Xabre and others with useless flame throwing. Xabre knows that as a percentage of GDP, tax revenue did increase after Clinton's tax cut to the highest level its ever been. Same thing under Reagan. He likes embellish his facts to the point of absurdity. As for God, although I agree with Brian on many of his fiscal conservatism, I dont agree with him on the use of God by public institutions. I dont think a coach at a high school needs to be fired for a prayer at a football game as the lack of common sense is sometimes ludicrous but I dont think the government should necessarily be promoting one religion over another but should be respecting all religions including christainity. I dont think politicians nor public policy should be based on a religious belief but nor should such public policy trump a religious belief.

Bob,

Are you stupid or just a liar?

2009, Bush's last budget year, Revenue as a portion of GDP was 15.1%. Lower than EVERY year GWB was President. Nice way to end up. All GWB's tax scheme, Obama hadn't changed any of that in 2009.

Kirk,

Didn't Clinton raise taxes? To the frightening 39.6% that led us to the closest thing to a surplus we've had since 1969?

Bayliee--many of us agree with you. First you seem to be admitting that tax cuts raise revenue which historically they have for a short period of time to get the economy rolling. Second, Bush did spend like a drunken sailor and was a horrible president. I dont have any problem saying it. We are not voting for Bush vs Obama. We are voting for Obama based on his record for the last 4 years and lets say Obama has made things better since the bottom of the recession. The question is to whom? The people Michelle tried to say she and her husband identify with sure havent done any better. How is unemployment in the minority community? As Backhouse likes to point out all the so called wonderful economic achievements, its like did they just fly by the poor and middle class because unless you think creating an entitlement state for them, the last 4 years have only gotten worse. So why is it that Obama should be reelected? Because he promises to do better this time?

BB = Bag of Rocks

JS = Bag of Rocks

BB + JS = 1/2 Bag of Rocks

We need more Republicans here so we can get to zero combined intelligence.

Don't let liars and distractors get in your way or otherwise influence your day. The GOP of late has pounced on one lie after another in an attempt to keep their base. They have serious concerns that they will lose the rest of their moderates based on the truths and new-found toughness coming from the DNC.

Took God out of the platform? One line before... revised to expand it's scope... absent the "word" God but filled with Christian teachings about helping your brethren. The GOP can put the "word" God in their platform all day long while preaching nothing but hate and self-serving views.

We built it? Lie.

Obama closed the plant? Lie

Lie, after lie. after lie. You idiots better start looking at 2016.

Being a life-long (72 yrs,) resident of Wisconsin, I must say that, there are only two things I don't like about Paul Ryan... his face.

Sorry SmbusinessownerinNY--the revenue gains were directly attributable to his lowering the capital gains rates providing investment incentives into the internet boom and eventual bubble. He did raises rates to 39.6% but also provided tax relief at the same time to offset those rates inside the AMT and some tax credit extensions. The amount of income impacted or raised as a result of an increase to the top bracket was small in comparison to the impact of the much lower capital gains rate. But if you are arguing with me, you are making a mistake as I am a big Clinton supporter.

Reagan worked with a Democratic Congress and got lots of things done.

Clinton worked with a Republican Congress and got lots done.

Obama refuses to even meet with the Republicans, who only control half of Congress, and his results are abysmal. Clinton learned to negotiate, but all Obama knows how to do is 'demonize' and blame others for his own failures - even when he had a Democratic Congress for his first two years - part of the time with a filibuster proof Congress and he could do almost anything he wanted - it's interesting that he didn't bother to even try to keep his promise of 'Comprehensive Immigration Reform' when he had such control - but now tries to pander to Hispanics just a few months before the election.

"The difference between allegiance and blind allegiance is simple -- it's about putting those critical thinking skills to good use and mindfully analyzing the ethics of a situation before showing support." Krystie Yandoli

"Corporations are people." The U.S. Supreme Court "Corporations are people, my friend." Willard "Mitt" Romney "Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power."-Benito Mussolini

Watch what you wish for folks. You just might get it.

Are you better off now than 4 years ago?

Let's take a look at some key indicators;

Unemployment - In September 2008, the Unemployment Rate was 6.1%, now it's 8.3%.

Gasoline Prices – At the end of 2008, the price of gasoline was $1.95 per gallon, now it's almost $4.00 per gallon.

National Debt – In September 2008 the National Debt was $9.67 Trillion, now it's over $16 Trillion.'

Jobs – In September 2008, 136,332,000 people were working, now it's only 133,302,000 – a loss of over 3 million jobs.

Tell me how we're 'Better off than 4 years ago'.

Another day, another Lyin' Ryan lie(s). Ryan is betting on the ignorance of the American people. Will he win????

JoAnnaSmith1

Bill for Barack 2012 - "I love women, every single one of them, and I'm not picky. Just ask Monica."

It's comical to see you pick on Clinton like this. It shows your desperation. But I've said it over and over and over, I will take a president who gets a little BJ on the side over one that starts two wars and sends thousands of American mothers/fathers, brothers/sisters, sons/daughters, husbands/wives to die or get injured.

Kirk,

Clinton fan. Me too. I'm not arguing, other than tax cuts by themselves are stimultory, but not forever, and they do depend on who gets them. If you changed ONLY the top rate, there would be very little effect on economic output. So I think Obama is right, let the rates on higher income go up some--like back the Clinton rates. It's not a hugh amount. I know from my own experience that owners of small business have income swings much much larger than 4.6% (more like 46%). Marginal rates don't drive my business decisions. In fact, the higher the marginal rate, the bigger the tax deduction for that new employee. When taxes were 50% or 70%, keeping the money cost you a lot. It made more sense to invest that income, hire someone and take the deduction for the cost. Tax avoidance built something, it didn't fly off to the Caymans.

Kirk-2957282

Bayliee--many of us agree with you. First you seem to be admitting that tax cuts raise revenue which historically they have for a short period of time to get the economy rolling.

yes, short period yet the Bush tax cuts have been around for 12 years now and most economist told Bush it's either tax cuts or wars but not both.

and please don't tell me that they are Obama's tax cuts. They would have not been extended had the Republicans did not use the unemployed and the 911 First Responders as hostages.

Second, Bush did spend like a drunken sailor and was a horrible president. I dont have any problem saying it

so why does the Republican Party want to put Romney aka Bush4 in the White House in 2012, and wanted to put John McSame aka Bush3 in 2008? Explain that one...

ROY WILSON-336103

Clinton worked with a Republican Congress and got lots done.

that's funny - is that why NOT ONE REPUBLICAN voted for Clinton's Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 that raised taxes on 1.2%? Is that what you call "working together" - kinda like what the Republicans do now?

ROY WILSON-336103

Unemployment - In September 2008, the Unemployment Rate was 6.1%, now it's 8.3%.

hey Roy, why are you cherry picking Septemebr - before the Financial Meltdown almost took this country down. Why don't you start with 2008 in total (2.6 million jobs lost), and continue with Jan-March of 2009 (another 2 million jobs lost). That over 4.6 million jobs lost in 15 months.

But you pick September?

Gasoline Prices – At the end of 2008, the price of gasoline was $1.95 per gallon, now it's almost $4.00 per gallon

tell me, what was the reason why the gas was that cheap AFTER the sh*t hit the fan - show me proof that gas was cheaper BECAUSE of Bush and not because of the global economic crash and credit crisis. I dare you!

So what do we get from "Skippy" Ryan? SLDD.

Same Lies, Different Day.

B-o-o-o-o-r-r-r-ing.

Reagan worked with a Democratic Congress and got lots of things done.

Clinton worked with a Republican Congress and got lots done.

Obama refuses to even meet with the Republicans, who only control half of Congress, and his results are abysmal.

Called a Roy Wilson historical rewrite. Obama went so far right with his initial proposals that his base was screaming at him. After pounding his head against the wall and realizing that the right would not compromise on inch (having stated out loud that they would work to make him fail), he gave up trying to work with them and, instead appealed to the electorate. The right has been full of hate and lies from the beginning and haven't flinched once.

Even so, his results are as good as we could expect with such a crap economy and huge debt momentum.

Unemployment - In September 2008, the Unemployment Rate was 6.1%, now it's 8.3%.

Has to be lead for the "dumb @!$%#" statement award. It dropped to 10% before the Bush era free fall could be stopped.

Gasoline Prices – At the end of 2008, the price of gasoline was $1.95 per gallon, now it's almost $4.00 per gallon.

Absolutely NO policy was adopted that pushed gas prices in the least. This is a false-blame issue and you know it.

National Debt – In September 2008 the National Debt was $9.67 Trillion, now it's over $16 Trillion.'

Bush failed to fund Afghanistan, Iraq, Homeland Security, Medicaid, and his tax cuts... all of which continue to exist today with little choice to remove them. The continue to have an annual deficit burn rate of $500 Billion. Combine that with the lost revenues due to the collapsed economy Bush handed us, and you have over $1 Trillion in "momentum". Very little new spending is attributable to the debt. It's really too bad that there's such an effort to dumb-down the electorate... thanks Roy.

Jobs – In September 2008, 136,332,000 people were working, now it's only 133,302,000 – a loss of over 3 million jobs.

Again... take it to where the Bush collapse bottomed out... stopped due to Obama policies... and then we can talk. Jobs have been increasing since late 2009.

Tell me how we're 'Better off than 4 years ago'.

Just did.

BTW... the REAL question is could a McCain presidency done any better? Or would it have been worse? Ala Harding versus Roosevelt?

We are better off, because we no longer are losing 7000 jobs per month, instead creating new jobs.

We are better off because the economy is growing rather than contracting at 6%.

We are better off because the DOW is up over 5,000 points in the last 4 years.

We are better off, because Osama is dead and GM is alive.

We are better off, because we no longer are fighting war in Iraq and spending billions of dollars of US tax payers’ money there.

We are better off because we now have a well defined policy in Afghanistan, and we have dismantled the Al-Quada.

We are better off, because we have a president who is working to build the middle class everyday.

Yes, but more work needs to be done but we are much better off that we were in 2008.

• Hey Lyin Ryan --- you think you've had a bad week with your lie about the GM plant and your lie about your marathon time??? That's going to seem like a holiday compared to taking n Bill Clinton. You're in the big leagues now little boy and I doubt you can hit the pitching. The best thing you could do is shut your yap and learn something.

Is it my imagination is it that every time Ryan opens his mouth he's telling a lie. I guess he's only a Catholic when he's at home. Oh wait maybe not, someone has been using birth control. He has been married since 2000 but only has 3 children. He should have 10 to 12 by now, and yes pulling out is a form of birth control.

It's funny that people would bring up that Tax cut Obama signed with the GOP Congress holding a gun to his head with withholding Unemployment benefits from Millions of the Unemployed and the Tax cut for Millions of Middle income people, see the problem here is they ALL VOTE, and guess what many if not all will remember just how they were used as Pawns in the GOP little Extortion Plot, I love when it's brought front and center by the RIGHT, these morons are the factor of their own demise.

Charlie-1915998

We are better off, because we no longer are losing 7000 jobs per month,

that's 700,000 jobs per month

SmNY--I agree and dont really have an issue with raising rates back to 39.6% but the code is so progressive now that I think the whole code needs to be abolished and start over with something more fair and eliminate all the deductions and social engineering but dont have any problem with a very progressive tax system. But I dont trust the spending side of Obama, its not just revenue its a much bigger problem on spending. He and his party just cant get that under control.

Bayliee--McCain was not Bush 3 but I agree wasnt competent to beat Obama. Romney isnt anywhere close to Bush as he is far more qualified, successful and smart than Bush will ever be. Cant come close to comparing them. I also dont believe he is a social issue ideologue like Bush and he says things to pander to his right wing base no different than Obama does to his far left wing nut base. All candidates do it. Romney isnt anywhere near the person Bush is and cant compare them at all.

Lmarct and Charlie--give me a break. So you really want to say that the poor and middle class are better off today than 4 years ago. What about minorities? Are they better off? How has Obama's policies helped blacks? Are you actually saying because Obama has increased government assistance to over 1 trillion dollars a 100% increase since he took office, that these groups are now better off because they are addicted to living off the government? If all those great things he has accomplished for his so called groups like the middle class he supposedly identifies with, then government assistance would actually be down now wouldnt it? By the way Clinton worked wonders with the GOP congress and Newt Gingrich while adopting Newt's Contract for America. So yes Clinton worked very well with the GOP and led from the front not behind like Obama.

Roy, why are you going to the END of 2008 for gas prices? Let's compare SEPTEMBER 2008 if you want to cherry pick all the other comparisons to then (and this is for SEPTEMBER 8TH, 2008):

http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2008/09/gas-prices-1.html

National retail fuel price averages

Price
Change from last week

Regular gasoline/gallon
$3.65
↓ .03

Diesel fuel/gallon
$4.06
↓ .06

Wow ...

http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2012/08/average-gas-prices--august-20-2012.html

National regular gasoline prices
Price
Change from last week

Regular gasoline/gallon

$3.74
↑ .02

Diesel fuel/gallon

$4.03
↑ .06

I guess that .09 per gallon makes a HUGE difference?

Don Henley sang it best in "The Last Resort"... "we satisfy our endless needs, and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of GOD"

But Kirk, Obama ISN'T spending. Spending increases are as low as they've been in a couple generations.

Glad to see you're not with the "no new tax at any cost" crowd and think 39.6% is OK. There needs to be a balance. Spending cuts, and revenue increases. Ideally most of the revenue increases would come from better growth. I just think that if you're going to roll back deductions and credits (i.e. raise taxes) to middle income people (think child tax credit), the wealthy need to participate too. I had banner year last year and paid 18.9% in Federal income taxes, and to avoid AMT, I couldn't deduct the mortgage interest on the house I live in for crying out loud. funny when I filled that AMT form out, second residence mortgage interest expense wasn't part of the calculation, so if you're rich enough to own a SECOND house, that's fine, it remains deductible, but not your residence. Ridiculous. I make less than a quarter mil, pay 18.9%, Mitt makes $20mil and pays 13.9%. That's doesn't compute to me. If you really want Small Bus owners succeed, the $250K to $1M range shouldn't be the highest taxed bracket of income. It should be continuously progressive.

BrianB: They took "God" out because they want to get the atheist vote. Jerusalem came out to get the Muslim vote.

BTW: I'm sure Obama's people have already carefully edited Clinton's speech. Let's see if he ad libs a bit.

To follow on a little bit, Obama hasn't done anything to MAKE social spending increase, except extending unemployment insurance, otherwise it's all autopilot from previous policy. More poeple qualify for food stamps, so more is spent on food stamps. Obama didn't DO anything to MAKE people more dependent on government.

I don't believe the premise anyway that government benefits are so great they prevent you from working. Working is always better than not working. Have you seen what an unemployment or welfare check actually gives you?

Gil,

I'd bet the athiest and Muslim votes were already pretty Democratic.

Arguing about the platform is done by people who care about these little details (very few, on both sides I might add), but it isn't going sway anybody. Are you more likely to vote for Barack Obama whether the word "God" is somewhere in the Democrat's platform? Am I more likely to vote for Mitt Romney if it is (or is not) there. No. It means nothing to anybody except the people arguing about it. It's not about the voters.

bayllie "ROY WILSON-336103 Unemployment - In September 2008, the Unemployment Rate was 6.1%, now it's 8.3%........hey Roy, why are you cherry picking Septemebr"

Because it's September now, and 4 years ago at this time of year it was also September. duh

Cat-1200657 "Roy, why are you going to the END of 2008 for gas prices?"

OK, let's use January 20th, 2009 when Obama took office, when the price of gasoline was only $1.84 per gallon. I thought I was being generous to Obama by quoting the $1.95 per gallon price at the end of 2008.

What do you think are the chances of gasoline being $1.84 on January 20, 2013 when Obama LEAVES office? I'd say between 'slim and none'.

Just the higher cost for gasoline alone costs about $2,400 more per year for the average family, yet the Democrats are saying the Republicans are 'waging a war against women' because a small segment of the population is called upon to pay $7 per month for their own birth control pills, instead of expecting the taxpayers to pay for them.

And how much more is the average family paying for food now - but of course that's not nearly as important as providing free birth control pills for a relatively few women.

Brianb,

You know perfectly well why we don't have religion in the platform. It was brave of you to recently come out and speak to me about being molested (allegedly) by Father Maloney at the St Francis of Pederasty church. Your lawsuit against the church was ultimately
denied when it was apparent that you, Brainb, were a willing participant when you received the secret sacrament of the Hairy Orbs and Shaft. I was under the impression however that you had fallen upon hard times and had lost your job. According to Feisty it was due to some spurious allegations of impropriety, while assisting in the local elementary school in your neighborhood. She had mentioned you had volunteered to be the teacher’s assistant in PE and in your attempts to adjust a young student’s cup and another student’s sports bra, that you were canned forthwith and forbidden to be within 50 miles of anyone under 15 years old. I understand you are now on the lam and frequenting OWS demonstrations. When will you ever learn Brainb that your religious beliefs, although somewhat questionable, aren't what most people believe to be part of the constitution or desired to be codified into law?

SmBusOwnerinNY "There needs to be a balance. Spending cuts, and revenue increases."

Agreed. Interestingly, the Simpson-Bowles Commission recommended LOWERING tax rates AND closing tax loopholes, which would actually RAISE revenues by eliminating the loopholes used by the 'rich' to avoid taxes. This is also what the Republicans have proposed, but the Democrats demonize it as 'tax cuts for the rich' - obviously placing politics above cooperation .

In the 'negotiations' between Obama and Boehner on debt reduction the Republicans agreed to changes that would result in $800 Billion in new revenues, and initially Obama said OK, but then he 'ran it by Reid and Pelosi', and came back and said - 'Nope- I need 50% more tax increases', at which time the 'grand bargain' disappeared. Obama could have made it happen, but he's too weak and ineffectual to make a decision - relying on Reid and Pelosi to make them for him.

Alan, NJ

The GOP obstructs President Obama at every turn and then decries his inability to work with them.

So if I think your proposal is spending the country into oblivion, and I have been elected by voters who agree with my fiscal position, then I should compromise on your spending proposals how?

You can think what you want, but you need facts to back it up. If you look at the source of our deficits, most of costs come from the Bush tax cuts and the recession. Since the recession will be over eventually, the main problem that we face is too much defense spending, soon-to-be-exploding entitlement programs, and low tax revenue. Yet you cannot cut the deficit when you are having 2% growth; wait until it is at least 3% and unemployment is at 6% to reduce the deficit. You have to compromise to get things done; Obama proposed short-term spending and long-term deficit reduction. It wasn't perfect, but it's a good start. And sometimes, a good start is better than spending with no plan for the future.

What part of $16,000,000,000,000,000 don't you get? Yes it began under Bush but he has been gone for 4 years now and the trend is still upwards. Where does it end?

What part of the phrase "austerity does not work" don't you get???? I support deficit reduction, but you cannot do that during a weak recovery. We see how that plays out in Europe; millions become unemployed and GDP shrinks, leading to higher deficits. In case you were asleep during Economics 101 (or deliberately left your brain in the living room before you went posting), when the economy goes into recession, deficits tend to occur because of LOWER revenues and HIGHER spending on social programs. Add that to the Bush deficits, and you get mounting debt levels.

And if you say that you should raise taxes then tell me how if the President is to keep his promise on not raising taxes for those earning more than $250K.

Simple; eliminate the Bush tax cuts on the top 2%, and then raise rates on the top three brackets by 4% points and the AMT by about 3% points. That will raise well over $1.5 trillion. Personally, I say let all the Bush tax cuts expire and get $4 trillion in savings immediately.

Spending HAS to be cut.

Spending IS being cut; check the automatic sequesters. Now we need to raise revenues and deal with entitlements, which Simpson-Bowles already deals with (along with the Progressive Caucus Budget). I don't like the fact that Simpson-Bowles lowers tax rates and eliminates the AMT, but if it raises revenues and cuts defense I'll be willing to accept it. Now you and your side have to accept the fact that we need to raise tax revenue in order to deal with the deficit.

Kirk-2957282

Yellowdog--the problem is that we get interrupted with good discourse by Jen, Xabre and others with useless flame throwing. Xabre knows that as a percentage of GDP, tax revenue did increase after Clinton's tax cut to the highest level its ever been. Same thing under Reagan. He likes embellish his facts to the point of absurdity.

Actually, revenues were ALREADY rising after Clinton's tax hike. Just because they kept rising after his tax cut doesn't necessarily mean that they boosted revenues. I mean, the dot-com bubble reached its peak soon after the tax cut (tax cut fueling dot-com bubble, which is a possibility=NOT GOOD), implying that it had artificially boosted revenues and made it seem like the tax cuts increase tax receipts. And if the Reagan tax cuts did raise revenues (which they did not), how come Reagan had to reverse at least 40% of those cuts in tax hikes later in his presidency????

Kirk-2957282

Sorry SmbusinessownerinNY--the revenue gains were directly attributable to his lowering the capital gains rates providing investment incentives into the internet boom and eventual bubble.

That exact statement blows a hole in your argument. The capital gains tax cut could have added too much fuel to the internet boom, turning into a bubble. That bubble, in turn, artificially raised revenues and made it appear that cutting capital gains taxes increased revenues, when in fact the bubble itself did. Now, you can say that the bubble was caused by the tax cuts, and thus the cuts indirectly increased revenues, but had the investment boom not happened, the tax cuts could have simply reduced revenues.

He did raises rates to 39.6% but also provided tax relief at the same time to offset those rates inside the AMT and some tax credit extensions. The amount of income impacted or raised as a result of an increase to the top bracket was small in comparison to the impact of the much lower capital gains rate. But if you are arguing with me, you are making a mistake as I am a big Clinton supporter.

No offense, but why would any rational-minded person, much less an economic scholar, think that cutting taxes increase revenues??? It makes no sense on its face. Now, if tax rates are excessively high (in the range of 98%), lowering rates will probably raise revenues by offering incentives in certain areas, like investment or consumption. However, with current tax rates for income and investment at 35% and 15% respectively, any tax cut will LOWER revenues. Under Bush, revenues fell below the 18% average; they did reach 18% in 2006 and 2007. Yet the housing bubble also reached a peak in 2006 and early 2007, so technically there is an argument that the housing bubble actually greased the goose and artificially raised revenues, essentially stating that the Bush tax cuts did not raise revenues. It also states that tax cuts can actually cause investment bubbles and thus recessions.

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

SmBusOwnerinNY "Spending increases are as low as they've been in a couple generations."

LOL

Is that why the average federal spending under Bush (including the wars) averaged only $2.396 Trillion per year, but under Obama it has averaged $3.593 Trillion, an increase of $1.197 Trillion per year ($4.788 Trillion over Obama's first 4 years).

ROY WILSON-336103

SmBusOwnerinNY "There needs to be a balance. Spending cuts, and revenue increases."

Agreed. Interestingly, the Simpson-Bowles Commission recommended LOWERING tax rates AND closing tax loopholes, which would actually RAISE revenues by eliminating the loopholes used by the 'rich' to avoid taxes. This is also what the Republicans have proposed, but the Democrats demonize it as 'tax cuts for the rich' - obviously placing politics above cooperation.

Then again, Simpson Bowles raised capital gains taxes to 28%. I'm no fan of lowering tax rates (with them being the lowest in 50 years, I see no benefit in cutting them even more), but if they offer plans to broaden the base (and I mean real plans with specifics), I'll tack my support. But even Simpson-Bowles wasn't that clear on base broadening. Give me a tax reform proposal that lists the deductions to be axed and the rates to be changed, and I'll give it a consideration. And by the way, most Republicans would never vote for ANY revenues; ask Eric Cantor and Grover Norquist. Finally, Paul Ryan voted AGAINST Simpson-Bowles, and while I respect Alan Simpson, I don't think Ryan opposed the deal because of Medicare; I think it was because of taxes.

In the 'negotiations' between Obama and Boehner on debt reduction the Republicans agreed to changes that would result in $800 Billion in new revenues, and initially Obama said OK, but then he 'ran it by Reid and Pelosi', and came back and said - 'Nope- I need 50% more tax increases', at which time the 'grand bargain' disappeared. Obama could have made it happen, but he's too weak and ineffectual to make a decision - relying on Reid and Pelosi to make them for him

Oh bull@!$%#. The deal was still a compromise even with $1.2 trillion. For God's sake, it's simply moving revenues from 20% of the deal to 30%, or Democrats' share of benefits from 20% to 30%. 70% in cuts is STILL a helluva victory. And Boehner couldn't get the votes even with $800 billion. Cantor balked at the first number, and used the second number to manipulate the Speaker. If the Democrats can tolerate massive cuts to entitlements and social spending, Republicans have to agree to higher revenues. Boehner is essentially a servant to the Tea Party caucus; cut them out of the picture, and Simpson Bowles will easily pass (and by Tea Party caucus, I also include Grover Norquist, although he would pretty much be powerless without the Tea Party). If my guys can stomach massive cuts, you ought to be more than willing to accept some more revenues. If not, then I'm ashamed that Democrats ever even compromised with your so-called "fiscal responsible" party.

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

Freshieee "What part of the phrase "austerity does not work" don't you get????"

Since the end of fiscal 2008, we have borrowed and spent more than $6 Trillion (that's what deficit spending really is), and our economy has grown by only about 4.8% in 4 years.

At what point do we say "This wild spending just isn't working" and try something new.?

Freshieee

It's a shame that all of the members of the Simpson-Bowles Commission didn't vote on the issue so we could get them all on record. It could have passed if only 4 members opposed it, but 3 Democrats and 2 Republicans opposed it - since that blocked the plan, no one else had to vote.

Roy,

LOL to yourself because....

MarketWatch, yes, the Wall Street Journal says:

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Of all the falsehoods told about President Barack Obama, the biggest whopper is the one about his reckless spending spree.

Although there was a big stimulus bill under Obama, federal spending is rising at the slowest pace since Dwight Eisenhower brought the Korean War to an end in the 1950s.

In the 2009 fiscal year — the last of George W. Bush’s presidency — federal spending rose by 17.9% from $2.98 trillion to $3.52 trillion. Check the official numbers at the Office of Management and Budget.

• In fiscal 2010 — the first budget under Obama — spending fell 1.8% to $3.46 trillion.

• In fiscal 2011, spending rose 4.3% to $3.60 trillion.

• In fiscal 2012, spending is set to rise 0.7% to $3.63 trillion, according to the Congressional Budget Office’s estimate of the budget that was agreed to last August.

• Finally in fiscal 2013 — the final budget of Obama’s term — spending is scheduled to fall 1.3% to $3.58 trillion.

Roy,

At what point do we say "This wild spending just isn't working" and try something new.?

We haven't tried any wild spending at all, really. The Stimulus was less than $1T, spread over several years. Afew hundred billion of extra unemployment benefits and SS withholding reductions is a drop compared to what was enought to make a difference.

During WWII we spent the current dollar equivalant of $10 Trillion from 1942 to 1945. It took us 35 years to grow out of that debt, but we did managed that just fine. Instead what we have IS practical austerity.

SmBusOwnerinNY "In the 2009 fiscal year — the last of George W. Bush’s presidency — federal spending rose by 17.9% from $2.98 trillion to $3.52 trillion"

Absolutely false. While the figures are correct, the responsibility is misplaced. The Democratic Congress (Reid & Pelosi) refused to pass a 2009 fiscal Budget under Bush, hoping Obama would win and they could pass a Budget without spending restrictions, so Bush only signed a 'Continuing Resolution' on September 30, 2008 to fund government operations that merely authorized spending for fiscal 2009 at the same level as for 2008 for most operations. Virtually all of the huge spending increase for 2009 was from the big spending programs passed by Obama and his Democratic Congress shortly after Obama took office - Obama signed the 2009 Budget in March 2009 - after passing the 'Stimulus' bill and his 'porkulus' spending proposed by Reid and Pelosi.. Here's a link to prove what I say is true - but you can google 'Bush continuing resolution 2009' for dozens of other links;

https://www.aamc.org/advocacy/washhigh/highlights2008/159056/president_signs_spending_bill.html

Paul Ryan:

Thesaurus: nincompoop, incompetent, unintelligent, inapt, incapable, lost, dim-witted, Neanderthal, obtuse, brainless, dense, laughable, ridiculous, injudicious, slow, dull, unwise, foolish, silly, irrational, mindless, senseless, boring, childish, tantrum-prone, meaningless, pointless, needless, worthless, futile, irrelevant, inconsequential, insignificant, rubbish, hollow, valueless, ineffectual, inadequate, pathetic, dismal, feeble, sad, wretched, pitiable, baloney, drivel, babble, hot air, gobbledygook, gibberish, twaddle, hogwash, hooey, liar, bunkum, & COMPLETELY USELESS.

Romney:

Thesaurus: Paul Ryan X 2

SmBusOwnerinNY "Roy,At what point do we say "This wild spending just isn't working" and try something new.?................We haven't tried any wild spending at all, really.....Instead what we have IS practical austerity."

REALLY? I'd hate to see what the National Debt would be if we used YOUR definition of spending.

I believe that the solution to our debt problems is to encourage private sector growth, but you seem to think we can use government spending to 'spend ourselves to prosperity'.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I think I'll try another vine. Bye

All Politicians, Presidents running for office "Chase each other tails". This is no different than any other Presidential Campaign.

After the Election, all is forgotten. A weird game in play. No one wins speaking against each other.

Bout tired of listening to Ryan. It's at a point where you have to factcheck.org every single thing he says just to find out he's full of sh*t on every single thing he says.

ROY WILSON-336103

Freshieee "What part of the phrase "austerity does not work" don't you get????"

Since the end of fiscal 2008, we have borrowed and spent more than $6 Trillion (that's what deficit spending really is), and our economy has grown by only about 4.8% in 4 years.

That borrowing wasn't stimulus spending; it was a combination of lower revenues (both from the recession and the Bush tax cuts) and autopilot spending on safety net programs, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and TARP. We have yet to have a large Keynesian stimulus that is continuous and focused solely on stimulus (the stimulus was pretty much a short firecracker instead of a set of fireworks). THAT is exactly what we need; not tax cuts (which are essentially stimulus in their own right, yet much less effective), not spending cuts, not deregulation and catering to business interests. Businesses are sitting on $2 trillion; if they're waiting for a more friendly administration, they ought to wait until hell freezes over.

At what point do we say "This wild spending just isn't working" and try something new.?

When we actually SPEND on fixing the economy and hiring people instead of just spending money on keeping the unemployed from going into poverty. If austerity worked, how come Europe isn't prospering???

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

Roy, you're not being honest with yourself (or us)

Bush only signed a 'Continuing Resolution' on September 30, 2008 to fund government operations that merely authorized spending for fiscal 2009 at the same level as for 2008 for most operations.

Doesn't that mean the 2008 policies continued into 2009 policies were Bush's policies?

The increase was partly added stimulus, but mostly Bush's crashed economy. You're not suggesting in the middle of the biggest recession since the Great Depression, Obama should have done nothing, are you?

Fresheee, Roy says he left, so I have a question for you....

I asked this a day or two ago but I can't remember what post it was on to see if you replied when I asked before.

Since Reagan, there has been a divergence of wealth increase--the wealthy (upper 5%?) have gained 300% (or something) while the rest have gained 10% (or something). I'm curious to know what that 300% new worth increase is in dollar terms. How much does that wealth increase represent? What is it relative to the national debt increase? Did the wealthy gain $30T at the expense of the $10T new debt? Curious to know if anybody's calculated that. It seems an argument could be made that a part of the wealth gain is simply undertaxation. Most people gained little --so they were taxed appropriately at best, or overtaxed at worst--the wealthy gained at the expense of the debt.

Wow, white collar auto and all of his one percenter buddies in the troll patrol are out in force today. Hey, wca, how's everything in your one percenter world today?? Hanging out with your "job creator - wink wink" one percenter friends? Trying to figure out how to sleeze out more tax breaks "wink - wink welfare" to hide in overseas tax havens being the good patriot that you are???

Now back to that lyin ryan!

Voucher boy ryan is a psycopathic liar and a lapdog for those two corporate whore koch brothers. He seemed to leave out some important facts out of his speech like the one where he used a socialist program like SS to put himself through college. Wow voucher boy is a socialist??? And now that same hypocrite wants to end Social Security for anyone under the age of 55?? And wants to give all of the money saved from that to his one percenter "job creator - wink, wink" buddies as more wealthy welfare tax break entitlements so they can hide it in Swiss and foreign tax havens so they do not have to pay taxes????? vulture and voucher are flippin delusional if they think any rational American would even entertain such folly. These jackazzes are raping middle class America and not even attempting to hide it.....good luck with that plan!!!!!!

And ryan keeps lying about how he has always been a deficit hawk.....WHAT?????? He voted for every single budget busting unfunded bill the shrub and cheney could muster up from 2000 - 2008. EVERY ONE including two unfunded wars and Medicare part D that were all funded by borrowing money from the Chinese producing a 11 trillion dollar deficit at the end of the shrubs term. Now we have a Democratic president who has to clean up the disaster/depression the republicans left him and ryan has the audacity to suddenly claim he is a budget/deficit hawk????? The gop hypocrisy has no bounds........

This is also what the Republicans have proposed, but the Democrats demonize it as 'tax cuts for the rich' - obviously placing politics above cooperation .

The Tea Party demands "cooperation"... what is needed is "compromise"... Roy, there IS a huge difference.

I've never seen, in all my years putting up with the worst corporate manipulators, anyone that shades numbers as well as you. You should be proud.

The Republican sky is falling,the only wedge Ryan is driving is the one in his pants from shi,tting them last night

ROY WILSON-336103

bayllie "ROY WILSON-336103 Unemployment - In September 2008, the Unemployment Rate was 6.1%, now it's 8.3%........hey Roy, why are you cherry picking Septemebr"

Because it's September now, and 4 years ago at this time of year it was also September. duh

ROY WILSON-336103

Cat-1200657 "Roy, why are you going to the END of 2008 for gas prices?"

OK, let's use January 20th, 2009 when Obama took office, when the price of gasoline was only $1.84 per gallon. I thought I was being generous to Obama by quoting the $1.95 per gallon price at the end of 2008.

What do you think are the chances of gasoline being $1.84 on January 20, 2013 when Obama LEAVES office? I'd say between 'slim and none'.

Just the higher cost for gasoline alone costs about $2,400 more per year for the average family, yet the Democrats are saying the Republicans are 'waging a war against women' because a small segment of the population is called upon to pay $7 per month for their own birth control pills, instead of expecting the taxpayers to pay for them.

And how much more is the average family paying for food now - but of course that's not nearly as important as providing free birth control pills for a relatively few women.

Wow ... I provided the SEPTEMBER 8, 2008 GAS PRICES since You admit that

Because it's September now, and 4 years ago at this time of year it was also September. duh

DUH! AND YOU REPLY WITH JANUARY 2009 GAS PRICES?

Wow, Roy ... you want to have it both freaking ways, huh? You want to compare unemployment in September 2008 because it's "September NOW and 4 years ago it was September, DUH" but don't want to compare GAS prices 4 years ago - I mean ... after all, the SEPTEMBER 8, 2008 GAS PRICES ARE ALMOST EXACTLY 4 YEARS AGO TODAY... but you counter with JANUARY, 2009???

You are a piece of work. Really ... and that IS NOT MEANT TO BE FLATTERING. You fit right in with Lyin' Ryan and FLIP FLOP "I don't need to show anybody anything any other Presidential hopeful has to show because I'm SPECIAL" and "I BUILT IT ALL MYSELF (despite inheriting a Sh!TLOAD FROM DADDY)" RMONEY.

In addition, I doubt you have a clue on how much it actually costs to get a package of birth control pills since I doubt very much that ANY self-respecting woman would want to get close enough to you to need them. EVER in your ENTIRE LIFE. You're clueless.

A package of birth control pills WITH health insurance - before it was forced to be provided PAID FOR ENTIRELY BY INSURANCE was anywhere from $10.00 (if you had a generic you could take) up to $120 (when insurance won't cover ANY part of it). PER MONTH. It's not like a box of condoms which you undoubtedly use for any other purpose since I doubt you're actually HAVING SEX ... that's in addition to the Office visit to get the Rx.

Ran out of time editing. NO TAXPAYERS ARE PAYING FOR BIRTH CONTROL PILLS YOU TOOL - unless the woman is going to a health clinic that is subsidized by the Federal Government because she has no health insurance. The INSURANCE COMPANY is PAYING FOR THE BIRTH CONTROL and people are PAYING THE INSURANCE COMPANY FOR COVERAGE. ... You know? INSURANCE PREMIUMS. That little thing that is taken out of your paycheck every month?

You need to stop the lying, stop listening to RUSH LIMPBALLS and FOX NOISE ("we don't need to provide NEWS ... we're an ENTERTAINMENT COMPANY") and a weasel of a guy who thinks he's better than his FATHER (who was also Mormon) who provided 12 YEARS of complete tax returns when he was running for President. But maybe it's the IRS probe into BAIN that really explains why Mittsy-the wonder-dog won't provide tax returns hmmmm? Or that he took advantage of AMNESTY for offshoring INCOME to AVOID PAYING TAXES? Hmmm?

BCWC, you have quite the lead in that Marathon so no sweat nermal

Marathon liar GOP on fire. This goon is try to break a world record in lie/s per seconds. Stretch your lies, JSA1 will buy it.

I notice you circle jerking cheeze eating surrender monkey libs are out in full force today.

Obama/Biden 2012 "Road to Serfdom"

BO won't release any money to Dem's looking for campaign help... go figure.

Cat Unlike these told from the left?

http://factcheck.org/2012/09/democratic-disinformation-from-charlotte/

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CVN_DEMOCRATS_FACT_CHECK?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-09-04-23-35-49

• 1
• http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/09/05/160591872/democrats-unleashed-some-dubious-or-misleading-claims-fact-checkers-say

Caesar Augustus-.......

It is little wonder your comments are mostly adolescent insults. Frequently, when you refer to factual matters, you end up contradicting yourself. To wit:

Caesar Augustus- August 13, 2012 Quote......there was no surplus, never was. cooking books perhaps. Look to andrew Jackson if you want to see surplus or at least zero debt. go peddle bs elsewhere........EndQuote

Caesar Augustus- March 24, 2010 Quote......Clinton left the US a surplus, Bush spent it in 8 years and Obama tripled it in less than 2. So that's a poor argument......EndQuote

You are best rebuked, then dismissed as a confused, uninformed, and hateful misanthrope.

You are best rebuked, then dismissed as a confused, uninformed, and hateful misanthrope.

OUCH!

That's going to leave a mark! lol

Nice Work!

JoAnnaSmith1

Will Bill Clinton contrast the family man image of Obama from last night as presented by Michelle with his "family man" image?

Or maybe Bill will explain how he as President pressured lowly interns for "special favors"? Maybe Bill will take a stroll down Memory Lane, and tell us how much he loves women.

Maybe you should take your psyche drugs and relax. President Obama is leading in electoral votes; in case you didn't know it. After all the rousing speeches and FIRED UP supporters unlike the BORING RNC MYTH will lose.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/electoral-map

===========================

Lean Forward

4 more years

Obama/Biden 2012

how did i contradict myself. Clinton left a 'surplus' by cooking the books. Yes i should have put apostrophes. Im glad your paying attention but is that the best you have? and by the way, the to wit is aniquated, typical coffee house lib trying to sound my sophisticated then your lot in life dictates. When you rebuke me, let me know. The point i was making was Obama is no different than Bush. I will dismiss you now as a pompus, arrogant libtard.

OUCH!

That's going to leave a mark! lol

show me where LOL, now go have a outrage meltdown trailer trash. and take Ian with you.

Its funny since Fisty gets beat hourly like a rented mule. thats gotta hurt.

"In college Paul Ryan drove the Oscar Mayer Wienermobile. So he and Romney have something in common. Both have the experience of driving a car with a dog on the roof." –David Letterman

ksw62118

Cat Unlike these told from the left?

That's your job, not mine. Now go work on your list of Republican lies and report back to me. I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

Now go work on your list of Republican lies and report back to me

Well, so far, it has been well documented, Willard has told 533 lies in 30 months!

It's beyond pathological!

Lyin Ryan is working his ass off desperately trying to catch up...

The real difference between Clinton and Obama is not about these two at all.

The real difference is the GOP that decided to work with Clinton, but refused to work with Obama. I wonder why. But anyhow ....

the GOP is to blame.

I notice you circle jerking cheeze eating surrender monkey libs are out in full force today.

It appears we are winning folks, the more desperate the comments from these terminal malcontents, the more we have got to them. They dont have facts or an argument worth beans so out comesa the hate,,,,hate is their only card......they dpnt have any actual policy

Watch, Ill show you.........Hey Caesar, tell us Romney's Policy Propopsals for lowering unemployment? And please tell us how Romnye is going to balance the budget and reduce the debt?

The key word is HOW

Ok, Ceaser lets hear it.....

The key word is HOW

He cannot say how when it's not even going to happen.

JoAnna Smith --

Which totally explains the Pledge of Allegiance, or as the Democrats recite it:

One Nation under [something we don't believe in], with Liberty [as little as we can get away with] and Justice [for only the correct groups of people] for All [or maybe just the ones we like]

Dear, JoAnna, are you really as ignorant as that?

Never mind. I know the answer.

I was talking about the Framers. The Pledge of Allegiance was not written by the Framers, JoAnna. Interestingly, it was written in 1892 by a Baptist SOCIALIST minister, who did NOT include the word "God."

God was not added to it until 1954. I doubt the Socialist minister who wrote it would approve of the way pseudoChristians have perverted the Pledge.

And don't forget -- the 50s were also the McCarthy years.

But of course, you remember the McCarthy era, don't you -- the same way some of us remember the Kennedy administration.

The McCarthy era was the conservatives' twisted substitute for Camelot.

TaxMan --

how did i contradict myself.

You opened your mouth. Or in this case, you made some keystrokes.

Clinton left a 'surplus' by cooking the books.

Funny, that's the same thing Bush did to hide the full extent of his deficit.

But he still couldn't hide a deficit.

All that President Obama did was to shed daylight on it.

And all the cockroaches ran, didn't they?

Its funny since Fisty gets beat hourly like a rented mule. thats gotta hurt.

I do so love a man who repeatedly uses metaphors about beating animals.

It reveals so much.

And so does this. I only wish I'd written it. Pure poetry.

Ian Emdee --

You are best rebuked, then dismissed as a confused, uninformed, and hateful misanthrope.

Then again, this substantially overrates you.

Pigotry --

The real difference is the GOP that decided to work with Clinton, but refused to work with Obama. I wonder why. But anyhow ....

At least in part because Bob Dole was the leader in the Senate and his vision was longer than the next election. Show me a Bob Dole anywhere in Congress right now.

Caesar Augustus-

I notice you circle jerking cheeze eating surrender monkey libs are out in full force today.

We got bin Laden...your boy GW failed.

Why do Republicans hate America?

I do so love a man who repeatedly uses metaphors about beating animals

It reveals so much.

oh do tell.

TaxMan --

how did i contradict myself.

You opened your mouth. Or in this case, you made some keystrokes.

very clever

Funny, that's the same thing Bush did to hide the full extent of his deficit.

not a fan of Bush, like i said Bush, Obama. I cant tell the difference with policies, cept one put the others on steroids.

And so does this. I only wish I'd written it. Pure poetry.

Ian Emdee --

You are best rebuked, then dismissed as a confused, uninformed, and hateful misanthrope.

Then again, this substantially overrates you.

No one forces you to read what i write, half of you twits have me on ignore. Makes for stroking your egos that much more appealing but doesnt erase reality.

Then we have Gypsy (like calling yourself a shltbag cuz you know gypsy is a deragatroy term) telling me i can't name Romney's policies. Shoot ask Xabie. he knows the best but like I said MittRomney.com. I would sit write it all out but hell i think you clowns can type in the address and see for yourselves.

We got bin Laden...your boy GW failed.

Why do Republicans hate America?

what a racist remark. ok I'll play Clinton failed too but hey G-Dub got Zarqawi and Hussein (no not Obama). Old Doc, what a stupid remark. talk about revealing

Tax Man --

No one forces you to read what i write, half of you twits have me on ignore. Makes for stroking your egos that much more appealing but doesnt erase reality.

Fine. We'll agree to ignore each other. I'm just picking on you because I love the contradiction between your moniker and your stated POV. I can give it up in a New York minute. Consider it done.

But ignoring each other won't erase reality, either. Too bad for you.

You see, you've got the liars and the incompetent politicians who hate women, gays, Latinos, blacks, Asians, and anyone different from themselves, who wrecked the economy, and who invaded a country without a legitimate reason on your side. That's your reality. Embrace it.

Okay, okay, I admit I'm weak. I just had to take that last shot.

See you around the Funny Farm, Tax Man.

By the way, If you're on Facebook, be sure to look me up. I can always use another mule in my stable.

I love the contradiction between your moniker and your stated POV

ah yes cuz Augustus was simply just taxes. YOu know he was also for the sanctity of marriage (tax breaks).

You see, you've got the liars and the incompetent politicians who wrecked the economy and invaded a country without a legitimate reason on your side.

ah no Democrat voted for it or were they bullied with patriotism or someother kooky excuse you'll come up with?

Anna Molly

Pigotry --

The real difference is the GOP that decided to work with Clinton, but refused to work with Obama. I wonder why. But anyhow ....

At least in part because Bob Dole was the leader in the Senate and his vision was longer than the next election. Show me a Bob Dole anywhere in Congress right now.

You will not find one. Nor will you find an Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Dwight D. Eisenhower, or even a Ronald Reagan anywhere in the Republican Party. The policy takeover of the Republican party by Corporate America and the American Taliban is complete. The only thing left for them to do is battle for dominance and then purge the other.

"caesar augustus"...please, oh please, keep posting every day. Everyone should have the daily reminder of just how nasty, pathetic, dishonest, illiterate and desperate the evangelical teabaggers are. One can judge the candidates by those who support them....and, thus far, the image you project is right up to par.

I'm beginning to become convinced the caesar is a DNC operative - paid to post on here to make the teabaggers look completely sub-human. You are doing a fine job, ceasar.

Ol_Doc --

The only thing left for them to do is battle for dominance and then purge the other.

I'm very much afraid you're right.

Tax Man --

ah yes cuz Augustus was simply just taxes. YOu know he was also for the sanctity of marriage (tax breaks).

A Roman Caesar was for the "sanctity of marriage"? Do tell. Because Julius Caesar didn't get the memo. Nor Caligula, neither.

And if that's the case, then why didn't he put Mary and Joseph in jail even before the Wise Guys warned them to flee the jurisdiction? Or was there a quick stable wedding and reception that the Bible fails to record? I hope they had a good DJ.

By the way, we're officially ignoring each other now, remember? It was SO peaceful there, for at least a minute.

Maybe President Clinton will contrast how, when he was in the Oval office, he had a Republican controlled Congress which insisted on massive tax cuts for the wealthy, complained about the debt, and shut down the government.

Now with President Obama, he only has to deal with the House being a GOP majority that wants to shut down the government , while in the Senate, there is just a filibustering minority GOP that wants to shut down the government.

See, there is a difference. While Clinton was President, when you entered into Congress, you wanted to govern to improve America. Now the Republicans have decided they want to rule or they will shut down the government in order to Destroy America.

Because Julius Caesar didn't get the memo

stick to lawyerin since history isnt strong suit. Julius came before his great nephew Octavius who is known as Augustus. Caligula suffered from liberalism. you know insane, narcisstic, whacko.

And if that's the case, then why didn't he put Mary and Joseph in jail even before the Wise Guys warned them to flee the jurisdiction?

Herod? I dont think Augustus personally married anyone even with the title Pontifex Maximus. Im not relgious so you won't get gotcha moment there.

'm beginning to become convinced the caesar is a DNC operative - paid to post on here to make the teabaggers look completely sub-human. You are doing a fine job, ceasar.

fine im getting paid, whats your excuse for making the DNC look sub human? gifted amateur or professional moron?

ok I'll play Clinton failed too but hey G-Dub got Zarqawi and Hussein

And over 4,000 American Service Members killed to get Hussein who posed no threat to us. In fact, acted as a buffer between Israel and Iran (something GW's father understood)...yep, G-Dub sure did get Hussein.

And over 4,000 American Service Members killed to get Hussein who posed no threat to us. In fact, acted as a buffer between Israel and Iran (something GW's father understood)...yep, G-Dub sure did get Hussein

yep how many under Husseins watch (this time Obama?) Ol_Doc you're playin with fire there champ. It's a stupid arguement as if i support GW. One you brought up as a lame talking point championing Obama. "we gots bin laden"

Tax Man --

stick to lawyerin since history isnt strong suit. Julius came before his great nephew Octavius who is known as Augustus. Caligula suffered from liberalism. you know insane, narcisstic, whacko.

So, what? Are you saying they didn't all go to the same private Caesar prep school, located just outside the gates of Rome in one of those conservative suburbs? I knew the other part because I, too, can google. Or are you saying that you're some kind of half-baked pseudo historian who didn't even know what the Bible says about your namesake?

Or maybe did not expect anyone else to know?

Herod? I dont think Augustus personally married anyone even with the title Pontifex Maximus.

Well, I guess Augustus wasn't much of a Caesar, was he, if he couldn't get a little love from Herod in enforcing the laws regarding "sanctity of marriage."

And pssst .... "Pontifex Maximus" sounds a little like a product formerly sold from behind the counter, made from latex rubber, if you know what I mean. Size large. Well. Goes to the size of his ego, I guess, even if his effective reach was just short of Judea.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. When we get to the point that you rue the day that you chose your moniker, just let me know.

p.s. I think that ritzy suburb just outside the gates of Rome was called Romney, after Romulus.

And now Romney wants to Remus.

I knew the other part because I, too, can google. Or are you saying that you're some kind of half-baked pseudo historian who didn't even know what the Bible says about your namesake?

sure if i can apply googling to lawyerin LOL. Augustus Esq. half baked pseudo historian, please. As for the bible i can careless what it says about casear (hardly a accurate historical reference but thats for a later debate). Render unto Caeser there ya happy.

Well. Goes to the size of his ego, I guess, even if his effective reach was just short of Judea.

a sickly underdog who should have lost to Antony yeah I'd have a big ego too, he effectively and brilliantly crushed the republic after Antony without another civil war. Short of Judea, I am sure you are familiar with Friend of Caesar you know bible and all. you do realize Northern Africa, Gaul and Britiannia were under his 'short effective' reach as well. but i digress, have fun with google

.Well, I guess Augustus wasn't much of a Caesar, was he, if he couldn't get a little love from Herod in enforcing the laws regarding "sanctity of marriage."

its called a protectorate but yeah Judea was a problem for quite some time for those Romans. but its been neat discussing 2000 year old history and unless USA is going to somehow model its philosophies, economic and social policies after Rome, then i say its all moot

And now Romney wants to Remus

sorry, he crossed the line LOL...im probably the only one who gets it...oh well enjoy google again

im probably the only one who gets it..

Don't be too sure. Read that any way you want.

sure if i can apply googling to lawyerin LOL.

I'm pretty sure that's what you've been doing.

you do realize Northern Africa, Gaul and Britiannia were under his 'short effective' reach as well.

At some point in my sorry educational career, I'm sure I did. But if that's true, then I guess we've established that size matters, doesn't it? Good thing he had Pontifex Maximus.

It's truly been a pleasure, Professor Augie. I love learning.

..."caesar", I do believe AM politely told you to @!$%# off...or do you enjoy getting your ass handed to you, owned, spanked, tweaked...whatever you want to call it today? Reading comprehension not your strong suit, huh...

just sayin'...

PIZZA! PIZZA!

..."caesar", I do believe AM politely told you to @!$%# off...or do you enjoy getting your ass handed to you, owned, spanked, tweaked...whatever you want to call it today? Reading comprehension not your strong suit, huh...

just sayin'...

PIZZA! PIZZA!

sure if you say so Dolan but you know what, Hot Air. "Four legs two legs better" LOL@U Loser!

Pizza Boy, it's ok to take one for the team once in awhile, but you've got no ass left, my fuzzy little friend...you've had it handed to you so many times, you'll have to carry it around in a grocery bag...

...you can show all your friends...LOL...

PIZZA! PIZZA!

Oh, FYI...it's Dolenz...

"They gonna put ya'll back in chains", Joe Biden 2012 remark to black people. That is something to be proud of. Oops, Biden has a (D).

Gee Amy, I dare you to do the same thing, tonight and tomorrow.

WCA, yeah not gonna happen, this is Amy porno

Nah Caesar..Got a visual of you and JAS though; Yuk..my eyes, my eyes........Your fat belly, a$$ and her with her ankles planted behind her ears. NOW that is BAD pornography! Usual poverty of ideas from your side of the aisle if you get my drift. You know the inscestual "dumb puppy theory."

Nah Caesar..Got a visual of you and JAS though; Yuk..my eyes, my eyes........Your fat belly a$$ and her with her ankles planted behind her ears. NOW that is BAD pornography! Usual poverty of ideas from your side of the aisle if you get my drift.

you're visualizing me naked? what a creep

you're visualizing me naked? what a creep

Accuracy of mental image confirmed then?

Caeser and WCA....still waiting for you to tell us Ryna/Romney's policy proposals (you know, the 'How' word) for 12 Million Jobs and a balanced budet and an elimintaed debt....Ready?...Go!

Got Policy?

More like your poverty of intellect is "creepy." You are the one who brought up "pornography" jerkweed! Typical connie jagoff coward!

Torpedo are really a tough guy or just play one on the internet? what a loser doosh. Hey Gypsy here you go

MittRomney.com

I know its not Obama's policy of spend it like you stole it but it's a start

I know its not Obama's policy of spend it like you stole it but it's a start

No, it's a policy of not even collecting revenue in the first place; and Mitt Romney is supposed to be a great businessman?

No, it's a policy of not even collecting revenue in the first place

cuz Obama is just rolling in the dough right. You know with tax increases. Oh wait ACA there ya go Vagabond. But tell me, when Obama extends the tax breaks yet again what will be the excuse? you see the tax breaks are coming regardless of who's president. i want to hear how it will be the repubs fault how O got rolled.

you see the tax breaks are coming regardless of who's president. i want to hear how it will be the repubs fault how O got rolled.

You clearly missed the point. Obama proposes keeping current tax rates on 95% of Americans. Romney proposes $900B in additional cuts. Hence, the meaning behind my last post.

"Torpedo are really a tough guy or just play one on the internet? what a loser doosh. Hey Gypsy here you go."

Riddle me this puss: Why do conservatives talk a big line about how tough and patriotic they are when:

1. Bush received special dispensation to serve in the national guard during Viet-Nam? Same for:

2. John Bolton

3. Dick Cheney

4. Ronald Regan

5. And Mitt Romney.

As for me USMC retired and with two in the USN with one just returned from the AFG.

You? Most likely a pogey bait eating conservative like your hero (another sterling example of courage): Rush Limbaugh!. If you want to know what pogey bait is, look it up. Any Marine knows!Limbaugh!

As for me USMC retired and with two in the USN with one just returned from the AFG.

semper fi

Most likely a pogey bait eating conservative like your hero

Quit trying to sound like you came out of heartbreak ridge.

If you want to know what pogey bait is, look it up.

what makes you think i dont already, but as far as I am concerned pvsscake you are unbecoming.

You didnt put clinton on there or Biden. listen torp, you're kind are one in a million in the corps. You'd get rolled so fast if you didnt hide behind that typewriter you pushed around back 'nam'.

Honor Courage Commitment eh Col Jessup. nah you're just a knock off of Gomer pyle

we had a term for guys like you. Shltbird

Hey Gypsy here you go MittRomney.com

Yawwwwnnnnn.....Sorry, its just a bullet list of vague bunmper sticker slogans, NOT POLICY DETAIL.

His 59 popints of obviousness isnt going to pass, Caesar, FAIL. What are Romneys POLICY PROPOSALS for fixinhg the economy? How about naming a loophole? How about telling us how a tax break to the wealthy is going to get us 12 Million JObs?

As I suspected, you HAVE NOTHING, your candidate HAS NOTHING. Nothing but trickle-down wet dreams. NO SOLUTIONS, no vote!

Obama/Biden 2012

Romney has NO CORE and NO SOLUTIONS

Yawwwwnnnnn.....Sorry, its just a bullet list of vague bunmper sticker slogans, NOT POLICY DETAIL

yes we can

Forward

hope and Change

Sounds like your Furher has none either, at least not in the last 4 years HA!

Little Caesar, please tell us, have you cleaned your undies from the moment that the President even remotely suggested relocating the Gitmo detainees?

Hey Noid, Relocating them, nah they just want to try them in downtown NYC.

"As president, Barack Obama will close the detention facility at Guantanamo."

Sources:

"Barack Obama: The War We Need to Win"

CA:

Repubs krapped all over themselves when Obama tried to close Gitmo and send the detainees to the Thomas Correctional Center in Illinois. They went the fear route and suggested Muslim hordes would storm any prison containing Gitmo prisoners.

the minority party outmaneuvered the Genius Boy Emperor obama blearyeyed? I figued a response like that would come up, so i am glad you admit Obama lacks leadership.

So, Little Caesar, had he relocated the Gitmo detainees, he would be ignoring the demands of members of Congress to keep them in Cuba, but because he listened to them he lacks leadership skills and got outmaneuvered?

Thanks for clearing that up but you can't have it both ways.

Caesar Augustus-

Speaking of lies Hows GITMO and Patriot Act going. How bout the laser focus on the economy.

Another republican shill LYING about history. See this is what is wrong with the republicans of today. They are so against science, technology, and/or progress they have forgotten that in the modern era of today everything that is spoken, acted upon and/or voted upon by congress is recorded for posterity. http://newsecurityaction.org/blog/entry/the-republican-resistance-to-closing-gitmo/

President Obama proposed the closure of the Guantanamo Bay facility; the republicans in congress blocked his effort. I suppose he should have issued an executive order to have it closed so that the republicans could claim today that he totally disregards the constitution and the separation of powers clause.

As for those jobs? How about you ask John Boenher who championed the 2010 House takeover by LYING to America that if elected they (republicans) would focus on JOBS, JOBS, JOBS. The only things republicans have been worried about since January 2011 are a woman's vagina, repealing AHCA (voted 31 times on that jem), and naming post offices. Yeah they were real focused on JOBS, JOBS, JOBS. So focused in fact that they could not find time to vote upon the President's Job's Bill presented to them a year ago this month.

But hey, you republicans keep spinning history to suit your point of view. It's alright we understand your inability to deal with reality. After all ya'll can't even seem to remember who your fearless leaders were just four years ago.

2012 G-NO-P "Taking America Back", to the 1920's one vote at a time.

"Mitt Romney is claiming he’s going to create 12 million jobs in his first term. But he hasn’t said yet if he’ll create them in China or India.” –Conan O'Brien

but because he listened to them he lacks leadership skills and got outmaneuvered?

'They can come along but they have to ride in the back' . No NOID, Obamao don't listen to the repubs.

SIAS clearly demonstrates Obama sucks and yet wants 4 more. He can't accomplish shlt now but wants more.

CAeser.......what are Romney's Policy solutions for unemployment and the debt and healthcare? Still waiting. Got Solutions?

Oh Caessr....are you going to tell us Ryan/Romney's policy proposals for solving unemployment and the debt and relacement of the ACA.

We are going to keep asking these teabuggerer knucklgraggers to tell America the Ryan/Romney policy proposals for fixing America's problems. WHy? To make the point that Ryan/Romney has only theory and trickle down fantasies...NO SOLUTIONS

So Caeser, WCA, Brian and the other rock throwers......cough up the policy please. Got Solutons? What are they?

Bueller....BUeller.....

looky Gypsy I know you feel your Imperator is threatened. Stick to European policy, they're fiscal geniuses there. Off with you Vagabond

Hail Caesar? ...can't even answer a simple policy request? A faithful follower of Ryan/Romney and can't manage one specific policy question?

Ol-Doc....whats funnier still is Ceasar replied with...wait foir it....'mittromney.com'

What a rube. Cant recite one of his policy proposals....why? because the website HAS NONE. I guess Ceasar is one of those folks who jujst doesnt get that a 59 point bumper sticker isnt policy.

Again I say...ROMNEYT HAS NO SOLUTIONS......just ask anyone...OI certainly have! Nothing but crickets or a delkection insult.

Where are ROMNEY"S SOLUTIONS?

looky Gypsy I know you feel your Imperator is threatened. Stick to European policy, they're fiscal geniuses there. Off with you Vagabond

As I suspected, defelection because you cant name ONE POLICY PROPOSAL from Romney for jobs, can you? LOSER

Ceasar is politically impotent

guys... you're asking a republican named Ceasar to remember facts, whenever all he can think about is pornography? I'm betting he's the stereotype of a "good christian right" which most oftentimes are neither. And you know he's got that tiny penis syndrome to go along with his impaired memory.

Ryan is right! Clinton did take the best ideas from both sides of the aisle and put them to good use.

Obama just runs his mouth, and demands things be done his way.

Really? So the President wasn't adopting Republican ideas with things The DREAM Act and the individual mandate as part of health care reform and Cap and Trade? Fascinating.

Do you actually remember the Clinton years? As of April, 1999, House Republicans had spent 80 million dollars investigating Bill Clinton's extramarital affairs, and other fruitless witch hunts of his administration. If that is what Republicans consider "working with" a President, no wonder they think President Obama has given them the cold shoulder. Barack has never given them anything they could "investigate!"

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/04/01/counsel.probe.costs/

A four-year investigation of Henry Cisneros, former secretary of Housing and Urban Development, is scheduled to end in a trial of the former Clinton Administration official in July on charges related to statements he made about payments to a mistress.

Independent counsel David M. Barrett spent $1.4 million from April through September last year on the probe, which has cost $8.7 million so far.

A probe of former Agriculture secretary, Mike Espy, acquitted by a jury last year, cost $19.2 million.

Investigations of Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt and Labor Secretary Alexis Herman have cost less than $2 million, while a probe of the late commerce secretary Ronald Brown, a victim of a 1996 airplane crash, was terminated after expenditures of $3 million.

Amy, if you are a woman, Clinton considers you a bimbo!

Obama “can’t run on his record,

So says the compulsive liar!...

Strange, he won't even talk about his congressional record and RomBot won't talk about anything, his record at Bain, his record as governor, his record at the olympics, his taxes.....everything is off limits (he's destroyed the records)........

Zman you are not a democrat and there are no democrat's for romney, you may be trying to pull up that old regan democrat thing but this time that dog just won't hunt.

"Mitt Romney was attacking Obama about our failing education system. He has a point. We are graduating millions of people in this country who are so lacking in basic analytical skills, they are considering voting for Mitt Romney." –Bill Maherl

"Mitt Romney is worth half a billion dollars and he's saying he pays 13 percent annually in taxes. Al Capone paid more than 13 percent in taxes, ladies and gentlemen." –David Letterman

stupid butt Al Capone went to jail for tax evasion

ZMan2012

DEMOCRATS FOR ROMNEY 2012!

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...roflmao

...and they ride jackalopes

With a url like 'obamalies' you know it's gotta be bipartisan.

Just like Chris Mattews, Ed Whatshisname and Rachel Madcow..............real "professional" journalists..............yeaaaaaah.......riiiiiiiiight....................

You never got back to me on how you paid your K-12 teachers...you going to do that any time soon?

Home schooling............next stupid question......

That explains the lack of breadth (and to some extent depth) of your knowledge.

"contempt"...Have you ever considered charging those responsible for your education with child neglect? Ignorant and a complete lack of social skills... a classic "home school" abuse case.

ContemptMe

Below is a list of Obama's documented lies so far with the most recent lies first. If you see we are missing a documented lie Submit the lie here.

Despicable,

You really need to stay from Scum Bag right wing websites.

yeah but that's asking a lot for a scumbag to not be despicable

Oh, ANNA MOLLY,

I feel your pain, your MENTAL pain. If you twisted the truth any harder, you would wring RUSH out of it.

OBAMA's tax POLICIES are different than what the GOP allowed him to have with their filibuster-infested world of hate and privilege.

If Mr. Romney gets in there, he will feel the sting of filibuster, buster.

AND FYI, Obama only enjoyed about 3-4 monthe of a 60 vote senate, due to the delayed entry of a certain senator from Minnesota. AND the fact that Joe Lieberman is not really a Democrat and could not be counted as a vote.

it is SOOOO sad that clinton's talk was not as SHORT and to the point as EASTWOOD's....
WE hired you to do a job, you failed, now it is time to replace you!!!
blame stupid Bush.. Clinton supported the 1999 repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act, a law dating back to the Great Depression that separated banking from high-risk financial speculation. Robert Rubin, who had been Clinton's first treasury secretary, helped broker the final deal on Capitol Hill that enabled the repeal legislation to pass. Some financial historians say the repeal of the law paved the way for banks to invest in risky investments like mortgage-backed securities and collateralized debt obligations that played a role in the 2008 financial meltdown.

At some point, the right is going to have to face the fact that their nominee's proposals will increase the deficit by about $600 billion.

at some point,, the left is going to have to face the fact that their nominee's proposals just flat out suck and continue to destroy America. so Xabie if Romney/Ryan increases the deficit by 600B how do you explain Obama

Deflect in 3, 2, 1...

What about the Obama/Boehner agreement that was torpedoed by the TPRepubs. Tax the top 2% in exchange for 3 times that amount in spending cuts. A 3 for 1!

But no way repubs could go against the Norquist petition! It could have been a 5 to 1 ratio, or even a 50 to 1, but no tax increases anywhere for anybody at anytime no matter how bad the debt gets. We are not going to save our way out of this. Even your hero - Chris Christie - said everyone must contribute, everyone must sacrifice.

everyone must contribute, everyone must sacrifice.

It's funny you mention this, because the irony is that BOTH candidates are suggesting tax cuts for the vast majority of tax payers. When the total tax burden of all earners is compared, the two candidates' plans are surprisingly similar. It's just that Obama wants to offset the tax cuts to the rest of us with a huge tax hike on the top earners (who already pay a significant percentage more than the rest of us do.) That's hardly asking everyone to contribute, everyone to sacrifice. For EITHER candidate. Lol!

caesar, how do you explain ryan's "marvelous" budget balances nothing until maybe 2040?

Obama 2012

It's funny you mention this, because the irony is that BOTH candidates are suggesting tax cuts for the vast majority of tax payers.

That's half true. Obama is proposing keeping current ones in place for 95% of taxpayers. Romney is proposing more.

"Mitt Romney says he's never paid less than 13% in taxes, which I think is fair because only 13% of his money is in this country." –Jay Leno

Xabre

At some point, the right is going to have to face the fact that their nominee's proposals will increase the deficit by about $600 billion.

As opposed to 5 Trillion (With a T). Lets see if I can figure out which is worse. Duh? Maybe 5 Trillion.

At some point, the right is going to have to face the fact that their nominee's proposals will increase the deficit by about $600 billion.

As opposed to 5 Trillion (With a T). Lets see if I can figure out which is worse. Duh? Maybe 5 Trillion.

You have no comprehension on deficit versus debt, do you? One could almost say you have 'trouble' with it?

...I can't support the idea that somehow rich people are evil and we have a right to take their money. It's laughable that people call Obama's tax plan "fair", given how much he wants to tax the top earners compared to the rest of us. It's hardly fair. More like a desperate shake of the only remaining money tree.

Perhaps you should read this article <below>. It explains how a man like Romney got rich, and the devastation he's left on his climb towards his fortune. I can't fault a man for starting a business, making something of value, and growing that business into a prosperous lifestyle. I can fault a man for making his money through the destruction of business' and the exploitation of tax breaks though.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-20120829#ixzz254uMfAxe

well now, you're asking him/her to be "fair" and to care about who and what they elect to the White House...not to mention, it would require the ability to read. I'm sure they won't hear Matt Taibbi enlighten them on Faux News

Damn right we are better off than 4 years ago. lets see four years ago, sept 2008, BUSH was President.

Stock market was in a freefall from (dow) 14000 clear down to under 7000 spring of 2009. Today the dow has doubled since than. If you look at your IRA you have recovered most of your losses suffered under Bush.

A step backwards is looking pretty good about now....

CNN fact checker on the jobs number...

While that is indeed a gain of 4.5 million, it's only a net gain of 300,000 over the course of the Obama administration to date. The private jobs figure stood at 111 million in January 2009, the month Obama took office.

And total nonfarm payrolls, including government workers, are down from 133.6 million workers at the beginning of 2009 to 133.2 million in July 2012. There's been a net loss of nearly 1 million public-sector jobs since Obama took office, despite a surge in temporary hiring for the 2010 census.

Meanwhile, the jobs that have come back aren't the same ones that were lost.

Are you better off?

According to a study released last week by the liberal-leaning National Employment Law Project, low-wage fields such as retail sales and food service are adding jobs nearly three times as fast as higher-paid occupations.

I am better off...along with 2/3rds of American workers according the statistics.

In addition, I want to protect women's rights, minority rights, education, and unions.

I do NOT want to go back to GW Bush's policies and that's exactly what we'd get with Romney.

Ryan voted with GW Bush 98% of the time.

I want to protect rights too, but not at this high of a price tag.

Wow and where were you when nearly every respected economist in the country told us in 2008, that we would probably never recover most of the jobs lost by the financial downfall???

money.cnn.com/2009/01/09/news/.../jobs_december/

www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid...

for starters, if you need more, you can GOOGLE 2008 Job Losses. There's a plewthora of articles from all sorts of sources there...

Obama – Biden 2012 - Still Cleaning up Bush’s Mess!!!

Dems making the Jobless1 earn his food stamps and welfare today

Dems making the Jobless1 earn his food stamps and welfare today

So what policy proposals does Ryan/Romney have to solve joblessness.....since your are a die-hard Romney Supporter, you surely must know Romney's policy presscriptions for jobs then, right?

Tell us what they are, Jimbug

skip, and all over fibbing about a bj, how much $$ did Ken Starr waste?

Obama 2012

Be careful, he'll have the police arrest you if you dare criticize him.

Wasn't there something about an auto plant, somewhere in near Jaynesville, Ohio?

Obama 2012

Wisconsin Stupid.

thanks turd, my bad.

Obama 2012

skyparrot how about doing a little fact checking. President Obama wasn't even in office when Janesville auto plant closed down that was on Bush's watch. Even Ryan admitted he was in error after he was called on it.