Abortion? You mean infanticide!!!!!!!!

politico.com/blogs/burns-haberman/2012/08/sba-list-to-launch-missouri-ads-against-obama-on-abortion-133435.html

What a disgusting human being Obama is.

Santorum made clear he was anti-choice.

You shouldn't get to choose your health choices.

You shouldn't get to choose which religion you are (obviously christian of some kind)

You shouldn't get to choose higher education (lest ye be snobs!)

Republicans are trying to insure a lot of Americans don't even get to choose to vote!

Santorum, Romney and Co hate the fact that Americans make choices. we should all just do things THEIR way. That's all. Just let them dictate exactly how you will go about living your life. No gays, No women, no non-christian, no non-white, no non-males.

Hey Santorum,

Nobody advocates for abortion, you sanctimonious blowhard. We advocate for the government to not be allowed to invade our privacy and bodies, without any credible evidence to support their position. We advocate to be allowed to follow our OWN consciences, just as you all are allowed to follow yours.

And RedSox,

It's kind of hard to committ infanticide, without killing infants.

Quick duck the santorum is flying!

Sarah,

You'd think the simpletons would recognize a plea for LESS government, eh?

Especially when it is cloaked in religious dogma!

Clara,

I believe today's GOP/TP have confused smaller government, with poorly funded government. Taxes are too invasive, but government mandated, trans-vaginal ultrasounds... Let's do it!

Clara and Sarah, as usual you have trouble with facts. But, by all means don't let facts get in the way of your opinions.

LMAO you libbys are so cute!

with poorly funded government

that is what we have now, its not strictly a market cornered by the GOP. take off the blinders.

RedSox,

Please provide some credible, scientific evidence, that a fetus/embryo equals an infant. And by credible evidence, I don't mean, your personal, circular logic, or assertions, or theories. Something that shows that the credible, global, scientific community has proven when HUMAN life begins.

CA,

So it's the Democratic party that all signed the no new taxes pledge, and refuse to even consider revenue increases? I admitt, they're no angels, but get real.

Teknishan, if it were up to the republicans we would all live our lives according to their rules and there would be no choices. For these proponents of their rules and small government, I have yet to hear what they will do for these families they claim are aborting babies. Will they be there for them if the mother dies as the result of a difficult pregnancy and leaves several children motherless and a father who cant afford childcare while he works to provide for them? And if should stop working to care for them, will they help him out in making sure the children are healthy, fed and cloth or will they just call him a lazy good for nothing. My guess is they won't.

There are many reasons why a woman may have to have an abortion, why is her choice and her own personal business. NO ONE has the right to tell another how to live their life....NO ONE and most certainly not any man for whatever reason.

Now that we've had the probing pro-lifers, next up the birthers ... this Party has a vaginal fixation. Sick, sick puppies.

but get real.

you first. the problem is and likey what needs to happen is tax increase and decrease our gov spending. its a Congress problem.

Sarah, do your best to follow along... fetal viability is roughly 90% for 27 week gestation. This is called a scientific fact.

Now, you tell me when the baby has a right to life. Is it one day before it is due? One week? One month? When does it have rights? Or, do you believe the mother has the right to kill the baby right up until a second before its birth?

Please assume that there is no health risk for the mother, so no trying to deflect the question.

Well Sarah, will you answer? Doubtful.

libbys, sad bunch of baby killers.

I thought we were rid of this right wing freak! OMG when will the GOP realize that normal people don't want radical idiots telling them what to do?

Obama/Biden 2012

In Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court used the first trimester as the marker where a woman had no barriers to seeking abortion. Personally I'd argue that that until the fetus is most probably viable it has no independent rights. From a medical perspective, it's estimated that a fetal viability reaches approximately 50% at about 24 weeks (6 months) so I would suggest that as a marker. Until then it is an organism with the potential for independent life and therefore personhood.

Note that if it was already an independent organism, then spontaneous miscarriages would result in viable life every time, regardless of gestation stage. That doesn't happen so this can't be murder or "baby killing" prior to viability. Now if the fetus is not viable past that point due to medical reasons (example, born with no brain stem) then it is never "baby killing."

Oh, and it's "Pro-Choice", not "Pro-Abortion." It's allowing women the legally protected right to choose. This choice might be a decision to not abort the fetus. It's kind of like how "Pro-Life" can be a misnomer. Some of those folks occasionally advocate for the death penalty, which isn't exactly in favor of life.

I genuinely fear for women if a non-viable fetus is ever granted "personhood." Can you imagine the terror a woman would be going through (in addition to any other emotional or mental anguish) if she were to spontaneously miscarry? She may end up being investigated and/or charged with murder for something that happened naturally and that she had no control over. It would also mean the legal subjugation of a woman to another being, thereby diminishing who she is as an individual and the revocation of her personal individual civil liberties.

Then think about the recent Kansas case where the 10-year old was raped and impregnated. What kind of life would she be ever able to lead?

enter seeking with profound wisdom. LOL. Hey seeking lets debate our economic condition (USA that is) or Obama's accomplishments like the books he wrote in office LOL. You stick to childlike taunts. like rightwing freak.

CA - again, you're a liar. President Obama wrote his books prior to taking office. You are a frickin nutcase and you prove it daily!

Obama/Biden 2012

Go back into your hole, Sanitorium!!

Obama...Obama 2012

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haggisbingo-2225582

♥♥♥ IT!

It's beyond me why Republicans continue to "Demand" that they be in control of women.

Where, exactly, does it say that in the United States Constitution?

Rick Santorum is a RWNJ so much that his own party gave the Vulture Capitalist and JOBS CREMATOR the nomination, rather than Santorum.

Ricky boy, no one I have ever known has advocated for abortion, but we as women are glad we have the choice.

Obama/Biden 2012

Oy. First the Republicans try to stretch and/or change the definition of rape, make up false medical "facts" about womens' bodies, write it off as "another form of contraception", and now this? What next? I swear, every time they open their mouths, they lose 5 thousand voters and a kitten dies.

RedSox: Since you're under the misguided impression that life begins at conception, what shall we do with women who naturally miscarry? Surely in order to be consistent with your views, we must try the women for involuntary manslaughter! And for the fetuses whose existence is a danger to the mother, surely you will have to figure out how to try them for murder.

I'd also LOVE to hear your plan for all the children that are born to unwilling and unfit mothers. I assume you're going to be ponying up the money to pay for their basic needs, necessities, health care, education, and all the counseling they're going to need for their wretched childhoods?

Instead of your useless, condescending, hate-infused diatribe, why don't you worry about the millions of children who are ALREADY born and struggling?

I knew I could count on Santorum to frothen the base! The Republican ticket believes government can force women to endure pregnancy and childbirth against their will simply because they had sex, and they LOVE to talk about their beliefs. It's GREAT for Democrats!

Precededbynobrains, you should learn to read. I never said life begins at conception. That is the problem with you libbys, you don't listen and just make things up. Sad.

Now, maybe you can tell me at what point a baby's life should be protected. One hour before birth, a day, a week, a month? Well, what is it? Once again, don't try and deflect this issue with 'what if the mother's life is in danger', so assume it is not for you answer.

You won't answer just like Sarah ran away.

Do you think infanticide like Obama pushes is good?

Have you ever heard of adoption? Do you have any idea how many families that can't have children would love to adopt?

You are pathetic. Republicans donate more money to children than democrats by 3 to 1 margin.

You libbys are just hypocrites.

RedSox,

Read Matthews post. No need going over it all again. And you never answered the question, nor has science, of when HUMANITY starts. Just viability and potential.

And, YOU don't constitute the credible, global, scientific community.

Capiche?

Oh, yeah, and I don't have to answer the question, seeing as I am not the one trying to limit rights or tell someone what to do. The burden of proof is those who ARE trying to expand government power and infringe on personal liberty. I would only have to answer that question, if I was advocating for forced abortions.

RedSox - if your theory about adoption v. abortion were true, there would be no children in orphanages (private or public) or foster homes. We know that's not true.

Red Sox,

You never said it, but you keep insisting that we're all "baby killers", you've repeatedly referred to abortion as "infanticide", therefore, logic (look up that term: logic, you could use a hefty dose of it) leads me to believe that you think all abortions, no matter how early or late, are disposing of human life, therefore, even a fetus who is only 4 seconds old must be alive. Perhaps I jumped to an early conclusion, but it certainly was not reading comprehension issues. By all means, if I'm mistaken, do correct me: when does life begin? You keep asking us, why don't you answer? You've made it clear that you are far, far more intelligent than all us liberal peons, so why not spread the wisdom? Or can you answer? Would your answer make you a hypocrite? Dying to know!

(Nice with making fun of my name, by the way. Do you know the quickest way to tell that someone is completely full of @!$%# and doesn't have any compelling evidence to back up their ridiculous statements? I'll tell you: it's when they resort to playground name-calling)

Ursula-279622

What are you trying to say?

Right on! Keep that social issue front and center and watch the voters walk the other way. Santorum needs to get off his pious ivory tower and listen to what women want for a change.

Are you trying to say that women want to have sex and be able to have an abortion whenever they want? Does that mean that women don't believe in personal responsibilty?

I hope you don't speak for all women.

Don,

I believe what she is referring to when she says "listen to what women want" is that she, like many women, are very sick and tired of you bumbling Republican males making up atrocious lies to justify your need to control our minds and bodies.

Thankfully, many men are more perceptive than you, but they're pro-choice.

Ok pbn, tell me what atrocious lies do we use to control your minds and bodies?

Is it a lie that women want to have abortions so that they can have sex without personal responsibility? The statistics don't prove that out.

Are you saying that I am not perceptive of women's wants and needs if I believe abortion is a form of murder?

Am I missing the point? Am I missing what women want? I am not pro-choice.

Is sex and abortion the only thing women want? I think some women want much more. Some women today still want to have loving families with kids and husbands. Some women are willing to accept personal responsibility do help gain those things.

I think a lot of women are tired of being treated like fools and idiots if they don't fall for the twisted logic as you state it.

List of atrocious lies I can think of just off the top of my head:

Obama and liberals are advocating for abortion

Rape is "just another form of contraception"

Women have special "secretions" and defenses that "shut down" the fertilization process--but only in the case of "legitimate rape"

Obama is waging war on women

Rush Limbaugh has claimed in the past 2 weeks that Obama is responsible for not only hurricane Isaac, but also the shooting at the Empire State building. Let me repeat myself: RUSH LIMBAUGH THINKS THAT OBAMA CONTROLS THE WEATHER. I could go on, but I don't know more how atrocious you can get than that...

Is it a lie that women want to have abortions so that they can have sex without personal responsibility? The statistics don't prove that out.

Yes, that is a LIE. At best, it's a misconception, based on the notion that you think that most women "want" abortions. I want the CHOICE to have an abortion, should I end up raped or should my birth control fail or should the fetus be a risk to my health--it doesn't mean I want sex with no responsibility, it doesn't mean I would be relieved if I chose to have one, it doesn't mean it wouldn't be a decision I would have to live with that might haunt me all my life. Of course you do mention statistics, but you fail to back that up with a source. TYPICAL.

Is sex and abortion the only thing women want? I think some women want much more. Some women today still want to have loving families with kids and husbands. Some women are willing to accept personal responsibility do help gain those things.

Knock it off, Don--get off your moral high-horse and back to reality. The only one twisting the facts is you and your party. Either you're a liar or a fool--but in any case you're in a pathetic state of denial.

I'm also confused: Republicans claim to be pro-life, they claim to concern themselves with the "unborn child". Why is it that you're only concerned with a child that's still in the womb? It's no secret that you don't give two sh!ts for children OUT of the womb... millions of children were uninsured before Obama's health care reform legislation, and I sure as hell didn't hear any Republicans speaking up about it. Obama's law GUARANTEED health insurance issuance for children, and now, you're trying to repeal it. Nice job.

Republicans have a not-so-secret track record for slashing funding to education--some even want to privatize the education system, so that only the wealthy could afford to go to a decent school.

I'm really not sure how you justify your stance being one of compassion.

Pbn

I am tempted to lose my civility.

Again, your comments resonate with so many people. On the surface you sound so wonderful, strong, and intelligent. You word are based on a different philosophy than mine.

To me you are just using baseless arguments that don't stand up when looked into with some depth. They are sound bites. Cute and funny but mindless and silly. You twist everything so much.

Lets go a little further. Why would anybody buy into twisted logic like yours. What is their agenda. Thoughtful people that look into what your are saying will see that your name calling really applies to you.

Do you or anybody reading these post believe that people that are pro-life, really don't care at all about what to a child once they are born? Really?

If I don't agree with your agenda you say I am uncaring. Well, then the other name calling starts coming. It is just not an intelligent argument.

Face it. Liberals use cute and funny comments to support their agenda. Their agenda hasn't worked.

Most of the liberal solutions have been tried by other and haven't worked. Mostly by communist and socialist.

But, hey, they sound wonderful.

Let's see, exactly which parts of my argument are not intelligent, or funny, or mindless, or silly or twisted? What have I said that isn't true? You speak in a general fashion, condescending, dismissing everything, yet you've offered no defense, no counter-evidence, to specifics, no citations, no facts, no information. WHERE ARE THE FACTS, DON?

I think the reason you're tempted to lose your civility is because you know I'm right, and it makes you angry.

Most of the liberal solutions have been tried by other and haven't worked. Mostly by communist and socialist.

Which solutions? Communist... socialist... ha! And I'M THE one with the mindless and unintelligent argument? Where are the specifics?

Liberals use cute and funny comments to support their agenda. Their agenda hasn't worked.

Well, since I made a list of atrocious Republican lies, why don't you amuse us with these "cute and funny" comments from liberals? Oh Don. Even if that was true, give me cute and funny over BOLD FACES BS any day.

How do we so often find an "Us against Them" argument when there is no "Us", no "Them". Some bits of God should not, indeed cannot, force other bits of God to do things against their will. We each show one and other the plan set forth in Time, and part of the mind of God (If 'The Infinite' is a Living Being). I'm sure God is Infinite, happy, and in full control. I may be a tiny cranial-locked part of creation and Creator, but I'm smart enough to know that if God is happy, then so will I be when I file my individual report.

Ah, Sarah and Preeced, I new you couldn't/wouldn't answer the question.

One can only assume that you are baby killers and want to promote partial birth abortion after the gestation were SCIENCE (understand Sarah???) says a fetus has a 90% chance of life outside the womb.

That is a pretty sad position, and one that is not supported by very many at all. Only radicals like Obama support that.

Pretty sad that you won't commit to your position.

RedSox,

The whole point, is that my position is none of your business. Just like you're position would be none of MY business if you weren't attempting to force it upon me. You can't assume anything about my personal position, because unlike you, I don't argue my points based on personal beliefs. I leave those for my personal life. This isn't about MY PERSONAL belief or position, it's about, legally, what the government should be allowed to do, and when they should be allowed to do it.

That's what we call privacy and limited government. If you can't prove your point, which you haven't, you keep stating your position and belief, but have yet to PROVE anything, you don't have a strong enough point to FORCE it upon anyone, and it's definitly not strong enough to allow the GOVERNMENT to force it upon anyone. Follow your belief all you want, but sorry, you'll never get to force it on us, until you can PROVE it.

And, once again, YOU do not constitute the credible, global, scientific community. You're having a hard time understanding that, aren't you? Say anything you want about when YOU think HUMANITY begins, but your simply saying it, doesn't make it credible, scientific, or evidence. It makes it the fallacy of proof by assertion.

Ah, Sarah and Preeced, I new you couldn't/wouldn't answer the question.

I'm sorry, did you answer mine? No.

One can only assume that you are baby killers and want to promote partial birth abortion after the gestation were SCIENCE (understand Sarah???) says a fetus has a 90% chance of life outside the womb.

Interesting how your logic takes you from "pro Choice" to "baby killers who promote partial birth abortion". Please, do provide a step-by-step breakdown of how you came to that conclusion, with supporting quotes to document your evidence that I support partial birth abortion.

Pretty sad that you won't commit to your position.

On the contrary, I have never strayed from my position. My position is this: Women, and only women, have the right to decide what happens with their own bodies and their own lives. No law, no ignorant man, can deny them this. I uphold Roe v. Wade. Please go on about this SCIENCE you claim to know so much about and enlighten us with your knowledge of when life begins. You've proven to us you know when a fetus is viable. Good job. No one is arguing with you on that point. But that was not the question I asked you.

Please go on about this SCIENCE you claim to know so much about

The right wing lunatic fringe knows nothing about science and they deliberately remain ignorant of it because science refutes the existence of their mythical deity.

Rick Santorum gets a key speaking slot at the Reppublican convention? Rick Santorum?

The same guy who claims President Obama wants to "cull the ranks of the disabled in our society"?

...who compared President Obama to Hitler, and said he was the "greatest threat of our generation"?

....who claims Satan is "attacking the great institutions of America"?

....who said of Contraception - "It's not okay. It's a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be"

...who called Mormonism "a church that some Christians believe misleadingly calls itself Christian, is an active missionary church, and a dangerous cult?"

...who said of welfare programs - "I don't want to make black people's lives better by giving them somebody else's money"

...who claims that allowing consensual gay sex in your home can lead to allowing bigamy, polygamy, incest, adultery, or "man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be."

Wow - why don't they just trot out Todd Akin for a discussion about rape?

Rick Santorum on Tuesday accused President Obama and liberals of advocating for abortions,

No!...

President Obama and liberals advocate for a womans Constitutional right to Privacy and Choice....remember Roe v Wade!

TO: TNSEVOL who wrote:

"Rick Santorum gets a key speaking slot at the Republican convention? Rick Santorum?..."

Well, what do you expect, all they have are wackos.

Obama/Biden 2012

"Corporations and zygotes are people my friends."

REd,

Again your name calling defines yourself. Doing anything to stay in power. That is a democrat.

He didn't "Drop Out", SF. He PULLED OUT,...the irony was deafening!

Clara,

Or he oozed out. Call me juvenile if you must, but the Santorum jokes never get old.

Oh, Clara!

Sarah and Clara ..... still laughing and you're so right, the Santorum jokes NEVER get old! Thanks for the afternoon giggles!

TO: Clara KCMO who wrote:

"He didn't "Drop Out", SF. He PULLED OUT..."

"Drop out", "pull out", either way he was going to lose!

He sure didn't "pull out" because he was winning.

Obama/Biden 2012

How about dribbled out? This guy is unbelievable. Frothy Cream(pun intended) of the GOP/tp crop.

No, The Bible never mentions abortion. It does, however, say that an unruly child must be taken to the gates of the city and stoned to death. I bet that would go over well by today's standards.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

¹⁸ If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

¹⁹ Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

²⁰ And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

²¹ And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

TO: Da Noid who wrote:

"... The Bible never mentions abortion. It does, however, say that an unruly child must be taken to the gates of the city and stoned to death..."

It's probably a good thing that I didn't know that when my kids were growing up.

Obama/Biden 2012

yes they are! they are going to impose the same abortion laws the communists in china have; it is one of the main platforms of the UN- planetary population reduction- genocide! the UN is planning to kill Billions, on their genocide monument north of Elberton Georgia they state that they want the population of the planet to number only 500,000,000 communists none other it is also in their own documents the banking cartel, also known as, the federal reserve, which it never was, financed the communist revolution in 1917 the super rich are all communists In Karl Marxs book Das Kapital "his scathing denunciation of capitalism" he never mentions the cheif protagonists of capitalism why? that makes about as much sense as writing a book about the telephone and never mentioning A.G. Bell or wireless telegraphy and never uttering Marconi's name. Karl Marx was dishonest because when you trace the roots of communism and capitalism you will find the exact same people, the exact same families.Karl Marx was a hypocrite he was also a pervert like Lenin Lenin died in an insane asylum kind of ironic don't you think?

Curious Bob - what a lying piece of filth. I guarantee you that, if Romney's boys get a girl pregnant and they don't want them to marry her they will be looking for the quickest way to terminate the pregnancy. The GOP is the party of "do as I say, not as I do."

You are truly a lowdown disgusting piece of dirt! There is a special place in hell for a jerk like you!

Obama/Biden 2012

what is so frightening idiot ? I see nothing frightening except the small size of your pea brain.

Well, just think of all the welfare/anchor babies the Democrats "aborted" for you! You don't seem to be able to find any room in your "loving" hearts for them.

Considering that most abortions are targeted at African Americans in cities , One would think that the African American communities would be aware of this. Elimination of the Black race

Simple and premeditated logic of former slave owners. If they can't keep them as slaves destroy them and make sure they can't breed so much.

When you look at their retoric and lies and what they stand for , it is clear what they want.

"Most abortions are targeted at African Americans in cities". How does one "target" an abortion, I wonder? In any case, that's a complete lie, the majority of abortions in the United States are performed on white women (52%) followed by blacks, (40%). http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparebar.jsp?ind=468&cat=10

See how I cite my sources? See how I can back up my statements with something resembling a fact? Republicans: learn it. Embrace it. Practice it.

Since YOU didn't cite your sources, I did an internet search for you and found this article, which espouses all the ideas you just mentioned: http://www.abort73.com/abortion/abortion_and_race/ which not only uses data from 12 years ago, despite being written last year, uses only completely biased sources, and comes to a completely incorrect conclusion based on the data? Just look at the freaking pie charts, they don't support the conclusion, at all! And if that weren't enough, the freaking authors of the article admitted that they themselves SKEWED THE DATA! Christ on a Cracker, what does it take to get you people to LOOK AT THE TRUTH?!?

The CDC does not provide this number directly. It tells us that 55.8% of all abortions in the U.S. are performed on white women of Hispanic or non-Hispanic descent. It also tells us that 20.1% of all abortions are performed on Hispanic women. The 2000 census data tells us that 2% of all Hispanics in the U.S. are black. Therefore, we can conclude that roughly 19.7% of all abortions in the U.S. are performed on white, Hispanic women. Subtracting that number from 55.8%, we arrive at 36.1%.

Yep, keep on voting Republican: Facts? We Don't Care!

Alex can you say something intelligent instead of name calling?

precededbynone: Exactly the point, (1) Welfare is counter productive and needs reformed, (2) You just put a pricetag on human life and justified killing for your own financial gain.

Why is it that republicans get labels heartless?

Don,

a) Agree about the welfare (at least the needing to be reformed part--not the counter-productive part) However, it's a social necessity if you want the U.S. to remain a first-world country.

b) Price tag? Killing for financial gain? I don't believe I advocated for either so I'm not sure I follow. But, I suppose you would need to have a logical argument first. If you mean that abortions would save the tax payers money, that is true, but I hardly see how that puts a price tag on life (you have to be alive to be killed--fetuses are not by any medically accepted definition), nor does it mean anyone "profits".

Why is it that republicans get labels heartless?

It's probably because your party's most prominent mouthpieces (people like Donald Trump, Rush Limbaugh, Rick Santorum [did you read the article?!] and the like) go around making up bold-faced lies to justify their need to control any population they feel threatened by. Women, homosexuals, minorities: Republicans espouse ideology and promote legislation that regulates all of those, yet you tout less government regulation. I guess you only want less regulation when it comes to your own bank account, because I certainly don't feel any hint of freedom when your constituency opens its big mouth. All you have to back up your rhetoric is religious drivel. Seriously though, keep it up. Keep pissing off enough of the population, and pretty soon you'll find the tables turned.

egnj - I respect your right to believe as you choose, but I question your logic. How do you figure that Roe v Wade has "led to more pressure on a woman to obtain an abortion." Any pressure was always there. It may have been acted on less, but the pressure was there. The law has simply allowed her the legal (and medically safer) choice instead relegating her to back alley coat hangers.

I remember how times were BEFORE abortions were legal.

People from all over the country were mad as hell, saying that people were having 10 and 12 kids just so they would get a bigger welfare check.

Republicans are either the most fickle animals on the planet, or, back then, just like now, Republicans are just dazed and confused.

Oh you remember back pre 1973 eh? 40 years ago. And you were politically involved back then, enough to discuss welfare, which was much less in use at the time........

so you're 80 now? 70?

Let's see the ridiculous leftwing construct you have set up....

American Girl is confused because:

a. some scum have kids to get more welfare handouts (should be illegal to get any more welfare money for a second kid if you were already too poor for the first one, BTW), and Repubs oppose this.

b. Repubs are against abortion.

Solution: don't have kids to get more handouts and don't have abortions. Only have kids that you can pay for yourself. If you want to still have sex, use a condom, it's cheaper than an abortion. And of course, don't have sex with anyone you are not in a serious, long term relationship with, hopefully marriage.

Easy enough, eh?

Oh, Chesty, Chesty, Chesty... your comments are oh-so-ignorant. You think you can control behavior. Wouldn't it just be a dandy, perfect world, if only wealthy, fit, sane, married people are procreating (and I know you don't say it, but I can hear in your words "white and Christian, too").

Ever stop to think about pregnancies as a result of rape, the condom breaking, the pill failing? Pregnancies that endanger a mother's life?

Easy enough, eh?

Only in the dream world in your head. People have been carelessly screwing around since the beginning of time, no law you pass is going to change that. GET IT TOGETHER! WAKE UP! THIS IS THE REAL WORLD!

Chesty, how is "Repubs are against abortion" a "ridiculous left-wing construct" when that is an announced platform plank at the Republican National Convention?

As for that "use a condom" argument? I suppose that would have been the advice you would have given to the 10 year old Kansas girl that was raped and impregnanted by her Uncle.

Nope, Preceded by None, we didn't whore around as much pre Sexual Revolution, and consequently we had millions less:

--abortions

--STD's

--unwed single moms

It's not some "irresistible force" we have no control over. Magically in the 1950's they knew how to do it.

Ahhhh, OK, I get it now. Old dumb as a rock chesty got left behind by the sexual revolution. It must suck to have been ignored even during those heady, loose times. I'd feel bad for you but you're such an ignorant tool that I just can't.

You dishonor that great name. You should really stop using it.

Actually, Chesty, people were "whoring around" just as much pre-1950s, they were just doing it more or less behind closed doors. How is life over there in denial? STD rates have decreased drastically, and until you can find evidence that Roe vs. Wade and/or abortion is directly responsible for unwed mothers, we will just assume that you, along with Santorum, are pulling all of your ravings out of your behind. I don't know how you can live with yourself, as hypocritical as you are, touting morals and superiority when you're nothing but lying, angry, contemptuous, and ignorant.

I don't respect the beliefs off communist mass murderers the democratic party is communist so is the media so is the Federal Reserve, so is NAACP so is the Southern Poverty Law center so is Dept of Homeland Security so is the IRS the Irs never was part of the Federal Government, I have a copy of their incorporation papers from Delaware in 1939 they collect taxes under contract for the Federal Reserve they are assembling a one world government to do one thing Kill us and they are making us pay them to do it talk about Pro-slavery!! Alger Hiss was the Assistant Secretary of State under FDR at Yalta he was convicted of being a communist ,Whittaker Chambers was an editor for Time magazine at the time and he was Hiss's communist contact . He became a christian and provided the senate with the evidence needed to convict Hiss. Chambers said that at that time in what 1947 even then the communist penetration in the federal government was HEAVY this country has been given into the hands of the communists since 1913 with the passage of the Federal Reserve Act

Democrats hate little babies.

See I sank to your 4 year old, emotional, hysterical Democrat level.

Puh-lease, Chesty, get over yourself.

Since we "hate little babies", how do you feel about the millions of children that are born to unwilling and unfit mothers? Most of them end up getting shuttled into the welfare/social system, which your party touts as "socialist" and would get rid of in a heartbeat if you could. Sure, you let them live! You let them live, with the likely chance it will be a wretched life, relying on support from a system you'd yank out from under them if you could. What a low-down, lying, rhetoric-spewing, hateful bunch of hypocrites your party is. Baby killers, indeed. Last I checked, a fetus is not a baby.

How do I feel about the (alleged) millions of children going to unfit mothers

a. You murder a million + of them thru abortion

b. You caused most of these unwanted babies thru your failed Sexual Revolution experiment

Pre-abortion and pre-Sexual Revolution most kids were born into two parent families and had both thru childhood. Just another example of failed, stupid liberal "experimentation" in practice.

You do know you've caused half our current poverty rate right? Poverty would be nearly eradicated now, except for single moms with kids. If we kept our current economic progress + still had the wedlock birth rates of 1950, poverty would be half what it is.

What the hell are you talking about? "Alleged" millions of children? Are you in doubt that unfit mothers are having babies...?

What the hell is the "Sexual Revolution experiment"?

Pre-abortion and pre-Sexual Revolution most kids were born into two parent families and had both thru childhood.

Would love for you to cite where you're getting these "facts", since I can't seem to find anything that supports that at all.

You do know you've caused half our current poverty rate right? Poverty would be nearly eradicated now, except for single moms with kids. If we kept our current economic progress + still had the wedlock birth rates of 1950, poverty would be half what it is.

Would also love to see citations as to how I personally have caused half our current poverty rate, but I don't think I'd be able to read them since I can't stop laughing at your INSANE belief that single mothers with kids are responsible for poverty. What are you smoking/reading?

Ah hah ha, I love these republicans who think government should be able to force women to endure pregnancy and childbirth against their will simply because they had sex! They have absolutely "murdered" any chance Mitt might have had at stealing the Presidency.

Chesty is mad because he's the only guy in America who couldn't get laid during the sexual revolution. Sure sucks to be you chesty. Or no chesty, whatever you are.

Chesty, you're a loud mouth jerk. I bet you're that guy sitting at the end of the bar of any Holiday Inn telling everybody who will listen what you think. They're having a good laugh at your expense chesty. Even the chronic drunks won't listen to you but are laughing.

chester et un cochon sans logique

Why is it that when someone calls a Conservative a hell bound sinner and make accusations for no logical reason people like the comment on MSNBC. But when you say a Liberal might not understand the Bible the comment will probably get shut down.... Just a thought

Oh chester.....why would a facist like yourself use an avatar with the slogan of the original FRENCH progressives? Mind your teanut talking points chesteroony: teanuts must hate all things French

They're for abortion, which is cruel barbarism. The decision to get pregnant should be made before pregnancy, not during.

Chesty, tell that to the women who were raped, or had the condom break, or the pill fail, or whose pregnancies are a danger to their own lives.

Simple minded, at best, is what you are, but you and Santorum are more hateful than any of us "baby killers" on here. If you have to resort to outrageous, hyperbolic lies to make your point, it's a sad day for you and your party.

okay Preceded

That total makes up about the .2 of the 1.2 what about they other 1,000,000. you give precedence to such a small amount of the abortions. Let's just face it. You are defending the cause so it is a option so those who just don't want to have children but want to be sexually active with out consequence have the option to do such. Sure its about choice. Lot's of choices. We just need to understand the choices and stop covering up the real reasons why women choose abortion. It is truly about the tremendous lack of love they have in their lives and also the lack of love they have for their very own lives. I also find no compassion for those women who have had multiple abortion when young and now have problems conceiving when they want children. You reap what you sow. take responsibility of your decisions and own what you have harvested during your life. Abortion indeed, call it what you want, I just call it wrong!

It is truly about the tremendous lack of love they have in their lives and also the lack of love they have for their very own lives.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my entire life. Congratulations, you did it!!!

Yes, it's totally for a lack of love--not rape, not failed contraception, not poor education or poverty or poor health, or indifference or incapability--that women seek out abortions. All I think about all day long is how I just want to have completely frivolous and gratuitous sex with no consequences whatsoever! 'Cause, you know, if abortion were illegal it would completely put an end to all the gratuitous sex!!! Lucky for me I have smart men (or self-righteous women) like you who are telling me what I think, how to act, and what to do with my vagina. Thank you. So much.

Conservatives love personal freedom. We also understand personal responsibility.

If you see abortion as murder than we don't want you to have the freedom to murder. Don't twist the facts.

Yes women have the right to choice, but not murder.

Nobody has the right to decide to murder someone.

No Don, don't YOU twist the facts:

Abortion is not murder.

Conservatives love personal freedom.

Sure you do. Freedom for white Christian males! Everyone else is marginalized according to the Republican platform. Freedom for white Christian males and their right to persecute women, homosexuals and minorities! Freedom to throw the facts out the window and make up lies!

Enjoy your freedom. I sure don't feel "free" when you people are around.

Nobody has the right to decide to murder someone.

Then I sure as hell hope you don't believe in the death penalty!

(By the way, I do support the death penalty, but I also have the brain power to make the distinction between murder and abortion).

I can accept that we will not agree murder/abortion issue and I will show you respect on that.

However, you go to the lunatic fringe with your comments about white, Christian, Males. Your comments are the extreme of spinning twisted logic. To say that all people that believe in pro-life have an agenda bound to persecute women, homosexuals and minorities is just plain crazy. You need to surround yourself with people that don't rationalize so much.

Take note, you and I have drawn a clear line in the difference between our philosophies. I will say that my personal philosophy is grounded in western christian theology of the Christian church. I am not ashamed of that. It is not based on Islamic, Hindu, Taoist, Modernism, Post Modernism, Feminism or any other philosophies. I don't think you know the bases of where you ideas come from.

The comments you make can sound so wonderful at first but when you examine them they begin to look really foolish.

I am proud to disagree with you.

to say that all people that believe in pro-life have an agenda bound to persecute women, homosexuals and minorities is just plain crazy. You need to surround yourself with people that don't rationalize so much.

What I actually said was that the REPUBLICAN PLATFORM promotes these sanctions on women, homosexuals, and minorities. That really isn't crazy, it's not even a stretch. Is it not true that Republicans have been promising that, should they be elected, they'll ban abortion, ban or decrease funding to planned parenthood and thereby limiting contraceptive and healthcare access, ban gay marriage, (some want to make homosexuality a crime), pass voter ID laws and stricter immigration laws that promote racial profiling?

I'd say it's pretty clear where you get your ideals from. The huge, giant, glaring problem with that is that YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BRING YOUR RELIGION INTO THE GOVERNMENT AND USE IT TO PROMOTE LEGISLATION.

I know exactly where my ideals come from: Rational thought, research, facts. Not some book written by insane people and misinterpreted, manipulated, and mistranslated for 2,000+ years. I was raised by Baptists, I've seen your side of the argument, and it is wrong.

You don't seem to be able to point to which of my ideas are foolish... do you?

No you didn't say that and you didn't mean that. You meant to say something that most mindless people buy into all the time. It is crazy. You love talking like that. It works most of the time.

Mindless naive people that don't want to accept personal responsibility love it when you talk like that. Especially young children with little life experience. Those extreme comments have worked for you many times.

BTW. The huge, giant, glaring problem that you are talking about in our government. Our government is based on the Christian philosophy, not muslim, hindu, tauist, Post modernism, or feminism. It was used to promote the Constitution. Once again cute, but you are twisting the truth. We didn't want government telling us how to worship so we wrote the constitution based on our religious beliefs. But you sounded strong and intelligent (for a min).

Rational thought, research, facts. Not some book written by insane people and misinterpreted, manipulated, and mistranslated for 2,000+ years

Have you ever heard of Humanism? That is a philosophy. Have you heard of it?

Look at all the twisted comments in your posts. So extreme, so hateful. So filled with anger. Very twisted, very extreme. You are as baised against religion as any raciest. Your name calling applies to yourself as does most liberals.

No you didn't say that and you didn't mean that. You meant to say something that most mindless people buy into all the time.

Here is what I said, quoted directly from my post: "Everyone else is marginalized according to the Republican platform." I did say it. But thank god you're here to tell me what I "meant to say"!

You go on about my "extreme" comments, but you fail to point out exactly which ones are "extreme", or at least, incorrect.

BTW. The huge, giant, glaring problem that you are talking about in our government. Our government is based on the Christian philosophy, not muslim, hindu, tauist, Post modernism, or feminism. It was used to promote the Constitution.

DING DING DING, WRONG-O! Ever read the Treaty of Tripoli Don? Ratified by one of our founding fathers, John Adams? Here's a quote:

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Extreme? Twisted? No. I've backed up every statement I've made with facts Angry, maybe hateful? YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I'M ANGRY. I'M LIVID. AND I WILL BE. Until your party stops making sh!t up and promoting racist, bigoted, sexist, and xenophobic platforms--or until you can prove to me that it's not, expect more anger.

'Cause, you know, if abortion were illegal it would completely put an end to all the gratuitous sex!!! Lucky for me I have smart men (or self-righteous women) like you who are telling me what I think, how to act, and what to do with my vagina. Thank you. So much.

Exxxxtreme!

I know making abortion illegal won't put an end to your gratuitous sex. It might however make you more aware of personal responsibility.

I don't care what you do with your vagina. Conservatives understand why you want to justify when life begins and we find that silly. We get irate when you want us to pay for your abortions. We find that what......... ??????????? Can you say Extreme?

Then you say conservatives all want to put you in chains because we are sexist or racist. Because we hate. Because we just want to control you. That is twisting the truth. That is lying. That is extreme liberalism.

How many examples do you want of your twisted lies and illogical name calling. Your mindless philosophical logic?

Liberals call you racist and bigoted if you don't want to pay for welfare programs that have not ended poverty.

They call you sexist if you won't pay for their abortion.

They call you xenophobic when gays throw their ideology in your face and you deny them.

The emperor has not cloths. As people see the fallacies of liberal logic all they can do is counter with vile hatred and name calling.

Hahahaha. Please. Don't talk to ME about personal responsibility. You have no idea who I am, so don't get personal. If that's all you got, we're done here. I speak to REPUBLICAN PLATFORMS.

We get irate when you want us to pay for your abortions

You DON'T PAY FOR ABORTIONS. How many times do we have to tell you that no Federal funds go to abortions? Christ.

Never said conservatives want to put anyone in chains. You're twisting my words, be fair now Don! It's your only chance to save your pathetic argument!

Liberals call you racist and bigoted if you don't want to pay for welfare programs that have not ended poverty.

They call you sexist if you won't pay for their abortion.

They call you xenophobic when gays throw their ideology in your face and you deny them.

Of course no program has ended poverty. How do you suppose we do such a thing? LIberal social programs HAVE, however, made a huge dent. Which of your Republican policies have done this?

Again, NO ONE'S ASKING YOU TO PAY FOR ABORTIONS. GOT IT?

Aaaaaand you've just proven you don't know what xenophobic means. This is where I sign off. If my views seem "extreme and twisted" to you, just remember their ideals of your own damn party. A bientot!

Let's review, just to be sure that not only are you affiliated with the party of "No", you're actually trying to tell me that MY stances, and not yours, are the extreme ones:

1. FACT: The Republican party wants to ban abortion. Recent charismatic spokesmen of yours have actually resorted to bold-faced lies in recent weeks to justify their position. I've listed their lies above "List of Atrocious Republican Lies". But seeing as they've made headlines lately I don't think I need to explain much more about that. I'm curious to know how you can honestly justify that banning abortion is NOT regulating what women do with their bodies. It's also beyond me how a law that affects ONLY women is being promoted by a bunch of men, who will never know what it's like to be pregnant, never know what it's like to miscarry, and unless they've been to prison, will probably never know what it's like to be raped. I'm also wondering how, when your current candidate's motto is "Smaller, Smarter, Simpler Government", you can justify governments needs to be involved in the uteri of women. It seems that when liberals want to regulate guns, the first argument you run to is "oh that will work just as well as prohibition did!". Well? How well will banning abortion work, then? I'd also be delighted to hear your cause-and-effect breakdown for how banning abortion will teach women "personal responsibility", and why you think the main reason that women get abortions is a lack of personal responsibility to begin with. Finally, I'd like to point out that while you claim to be concerned with the "rights of the unborn", you fail to remember that Roe vs. Wade stipulates that the unborn have no rights that trump those of the living, and until you can prove a fetus is alive (with any evidence BESIDES the Bible), the burden of proof is on you, the regulation-seekers.

2:FACT: Republicans want to limit, or ideally, cut funding to programs like Planned Parenthood. This has already happened in Texas. Your party's argument for this is that Planned Parenthood provides abortions and they don't want taxpayer funding going to that. Unfortunately, they seem to be ignoring the Hyde amendment which has been in place for decades that prevents such a thing. Republicans also fail to realize that in fact many of the poor (both men & women) mostly rely on Planned Parenthood for basic and advanced care, not abortions, so you are cutting off funding for everything from basic check ups to breast cancer. Tell me how that's not ignorant and detrimental to the very poor and many, many women.

3: FACT : If Republicans are elected, they want to reverse Obamacare. The reasons they give for this are: it hasn't been effective, it's "socialist", and the government doesn't have the power to mandate the purchase of anything. Unfortunately, they are ignoring how effective Obamacare has been, despite only being in place for a short period of time, and will continue to be: millions of children now have coverage, young adults can stay on the parents' plan until 26, 85% of premiums collected MUST be used for healthcare coverage or returned to the people, starting 2014 no one can be denied coverage, contraception is free (with some notable exceptions for religious institutions that prove the President has in fact compromised on that issue), basic screenings and exams are free. You're cutting off funding for Planned Parenthood, and you're reversing Obamacare, and you're somehow trying to argue that THAT will be effective?! The people you'll be hurting the most are women, children, and again, the poor (what is it with Republicans hating on the poor? Hmm. I think there's a word for that. Can ya help me with it Don?). As for being "socialist", the act still ensures that we're at the mercy of PRIVATE insurance companies, so don't really see how that's socialist. And although the mandate thing is a good point, IT WAS REPUBLICANS' IDEA IN THE FIRST PLACE, until Obama embraced it, then suddenly they're outraged. Hypocrites. Why is it fine when a Republican endorses it, but when Obama embraces it, suddenly you cry "socialist!" And you say that liberals are the ones who counter with vile hatred and name calling?! At least our name calling is JUSTIFIED.

4: FACT: Republicans have vowed to ban gay marriage. I think that's a pretty obvious force of limitations on the rights of a population. And, unfortunately, the only reasons you give for doing so are based in Christianity, which I've already proved is NOT the foundation for the rights we are endowed with, and has no role in our government (see Treaty of Tripoli, and oh, I don't know, every other legally binding document there ever was) If the founding fathers wanted us to be a Christian nation, I'm not sure why they went out of their way to avoid even mentioning "God" in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, but yet include such phrases as "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" in the very first Amendment! So if you have no other argument that the Bible, which you have no right to enforce, and you're STILL against gay marriage, then by definition you are a bigot. Sorry if that makes your blood boil, but I'm still waiting to hear evidence to the contrary from you.

5: FACT: Republicans have been enforcing Voter I.D. laws, claiming that illegal immigrants will sway the vote to Democrats. This is a lie: your party is making up problems and wasting time & money with a ridiculous "solution" to a problem that doesn't exist and that promotes racial profiling. Investigations, studies, and reports have concluded time and again that voter fraud is about as likely as getting struck by lightning: (http://www.brennancenter.org/blog/archives/the_real_fraud_behind_photo_id/), and that in fact conservatives have been manufacturing evidence (read: lying!) to support their bogus claims. More than 10% of eligible voters don't have an ID: mostly minorities and the poor (who are more likely to vote Democrat, which makes Republicans afraid, which makes them likely to resort to any means necessary to justify their position). We all know that many of the states that are trying to enforce these laws have a history of racial conflict. Forcing them to purchase ID (which IS expensive when you're making less than minimum wage) is comparable to a a poll tax (remember Jim Crow from your history class?). http://www.propublica.org/article/everything-youve-ever-wanted-to-know-about-voter-id-laws We all know the real issue here isn't a matter of getting or showing your ID: it's a matter of the racist enforcers of the law targeting the minorities in the name of fear-mongering. Provide me with any kind of evidence to the contrary: show me that illegal immigrants voting is a widespread problem worthy of any kind of legislation. Show me that the motive behind these laws ISN'T racial bias. Prove it! You get so sensitive when we accuse you of racism... but if the shoe fits, and you can't prove otherwise, you are what you believe.

I could go on, but don't you see yet? Do you see the patterns here? Of how each of your party's major platforms are based off lies, prejudice, and religious bias? Don't you see that time and time again, the populations that you will be hurting the most are women, the poor, and minorities?

I have provided AMPLE evidence, with citations, and until you can prove to me otherwise that ANYTHING I've written above is untrue, then by all means, prove it. Until then, I stand by my words.

I would also like to add that your party still believes abstinence-only education is the way to go, that global warming isn't an issue, that immigrants are stealing our jobs, (read that link and you'll see that in many cases immigrants actually grow the economy), they still believe in trickle-down economics. Republicans seem to be conveniently ignoring overwhelming evidence, all in the name of what?! Why do you ignore that abstinence only education actually increased the rates of teen pregnancies, multiple independent studies have concluded that global warming is an issue and we need to act now, you have no evidence to back up your claims that immigrants are hurting the economy, and it's clear your economic policies will only put the money right back into the pockets of the wealthy. Seriously, how can this be allowed to continue? How are you incredulous at our anger? I fear for this country should Republicans have their way. You claim to want less government regulation, but the only places I see that happening are your pocketbooks, oil fields, and gun cabinets. Tell me why you continue to promote policies that have proven to be false or detrimental!

wow, the communist manifesto. How much do you want the government to run our lives. You sound so wonderful.

So, are you saying you want bigger government, with more taxes regulating more that we do? Only politicians that agree with you will be allowed to get rich and use tax payers money to do it?

All of you programs are based on fact if you believe the liberal bias and you ignore that one big IF. eg abortion lowers crime rates and is great for solving many social ills IF you don't consider it murder.

Everything you stand for is based on weak philosophies and unsound judgement. Communism sounds great too. It is also based on weak philosophies and unsound judgement. Its results were horrible. Your results have been the same.

Did the liberals include abortion in Obama's health care bill?

PBn

Interesting. You finally put intelligent thought together on here.

In fairness I must praise you on your intelligent response. This is so much better than name calling but you do still twist the republican views drastically. Wanting to end murder is not an attempt to control your vagina. Voter ID is not profiling, rediculas.

I still disagree with you. However, I have found respect with you for stating some logical information.

Also, I still think that you select information that you want to hear. You base your information on a humanist philosophy. I don't buy into that.

I will say again your liberal programs are modeled after communist programs.

Ok, now I've read your post. I read about the treaty of Tripoli, and I have read Madison on the separation of Church and state.

You are truly on the extreme fringe of liberalism. You believe your far flung twisting of the truth. You really are selective to find things to fit your strange philosophy of life. Liberalism truly is a disease.

Madison believed in the separation of church and state but the founding fathers were still strong Christians. Our government still was based on our religious beliefs aka Christian philosophy. Just like you, I believe that religion has many faults and I don't want religious leaders running our government. I still don't want to switch to a Muslim @!$%#e philosophy or others that you have bought into. I don't want elected officials that deny God's existence and accept some extreme point of view. We do have that now under Obama. Boy did you twist that one.

Simple stated. It appears that you want to deny God so that you can justify abortion with a clean conscious. It is what it is.

Goodder.

You sound so wonderful. Yes you are the star shining example is a naive liberal that is dangerously stupid. Your wonderful message will be heeded by other naive people.

Poor is bad. Get rid of the Poor. How do we get rid of the poor? Another war on poverty? What is the exit strategy on the war on poverty? I see more of my taxes for more failed social programs that don't work. But, hey they sound nice and make you look so caring to some people but stupid to me.

War kills people, War is bad, lets end war. Again doesn't that sound so wonderful? To me you sound like an irresponsible idiot that does not care about national defense and willing to accept tyranny. Maybe your not willing to accept tyranny, maybe your just blind to it. Your not threatened by it and any Marine can explain why.

Maybe your just selfish. If you don't get what you want then you can blame someone. Blame the government, blame the military, blame republicans, blame God, blame the church or blame your mother. You don't have to accept any blame for yourself.

Do have any idea what these mean... Denial, Justification and Rationalisation.

deb

Your twisted logic.

if you are against abortions, don't have one

That is the same as saying, if your against murder don't murder someone but don't judge me if I decide to murder my neighbor to get his TV set.

Wow. What an appropriately Republican but sacrilegious comment to make.

Sounds like the title of a porn film!

In the case of rape the woman does not want the baby but that dose not give her the right to kill it. My opinion is that baby should be given the shot at life

Give us your address, maybe you can take care of them.

Yep, I'm pro-choice, and definitely on the ladies side, they are the ones who have to endure this, not some mindless, ignorant man!

@mosh they do have to endure this and I think the person that raped them should be locked up for lifr. But You cannot simply kill babies because you don't want them. If I killed everyone I didn't like then I would probably on death row now. And don't tell me that old "unborn babies aren't human" response that baby should have the chance of becoming a good person or a bad person. we cannot take the oppurtunity for a healthy life go to waste because a mother does not want it. Today we have been told that it is the woman's choice, well let me ask you what about the babies choice that he will naver get to make...

Our Constitution gives rights to citizens, and lists the powers of government. The Republican stance that we should strip citizens of their constitutionally protected individual liberty and give government the power to force women to endure pregnancy and childbirth against their will (simply because they had sex!) is 'killing' that political party.

@G-dog So we have the right to kill babies we made. hmm. So if I have a baby and he grows up I have the right to kill him at any time. We do not have the "right" to kill innocent things for no reason other than we don't want it. That baby can't help that its in that position but the mother is responsible for bearing the child whether she wanted it or not. You see a glob of fetus produced by by sperm and egg. I see a baby that will one day have dreams. You go ask anyone who was a failed abortion whether they were a useless glob and see what they say. I am not stripping anyone one of their rights... I am trying to save those that can't advocate for themselves.

@conservativelybiased14: Why do you advocate stripping American citizens of their constitutionally protected individual liberty? What makes you think our government has any power to force women to endure pregnancy and childbirth against their will simply because they had sex? It sure doesn't come from our Constitution. Fourteenth Amendment protections do not apply to the unborn, this is the law of the land. The way it stands under Roe, every pregnant individual can act according to their own conscience; but that wouldn't be true if you had your way.

conservatively biased,

I would love to hear what you would have to say to the ten year old girl in my town who was pregnant as a result of a rape by her OWN FATHER.

"Now honey, you really should have thought about getting pregnant before your father held you down and brutally raped and sodomized you! Maybe you could have had him use a condom? This is just something you'll have to 'endure'. If having this baby doesn't kill you, (seeing as you're only ten), you'd better start looking for a job and start figuring out how you're going to support that baby, since we're also getting rid of all the social welfare systems that would be of any kind of assistance!"

Brutal, isn't it? Pull you head out. We're not living in your little dream Christian world. Even if abortion was proved, in fact, to be "baby killing" or "infanticide" (it's NOT, by the way, but moving on...), in many cases, abortion would be a MERCY. There are fates far worse than death. A lifetime of being ridiculed and marginalized by people like you, for example.

@G-dog I have answered some of these questions in my previous post. I will explain it in simple terms. We the people have rights. A woman has rights, a child has right, and a man has right. I am advocating for the child who can not give his opinion. The mother is forced to carry that baby because when she got pregnant she is responsible for it till it gets born. You may not like it, I may not like it, and the woman might not like it but that is the way it is intended to be. It is not a right to kill an innocent baby who might someday grow up to be a great man. We DO NOT have the right to kill that baby before it can make it to the world. Maybe someday babies will not need to be in the womb to be born, but until that happens it is the NATURAL responsibility of the mother to bear that child till someone else can take it. please try and understand that their are more rights here than just the woman's.

Advocate for children all you want, by any means. But a FETUS IS NOT A CHILD. A FETUS IS NOT EVEN AN INFANT UNTIL IT IS BORN. "You may not like it, I may not like it, and the woman may not like it", but that's just the way it is, Pollyanna. You don't have the right to regulate behavior. You don't have the right to make a woman go through childbirth if she doesn't want to. Please try to understand that you think you're doing the babies and the world a favor, but really, you and your party are leaning more towards facism every day.

If you would honestly tell a ten year old child that she needs to go through with the birth of her incestous, unwanted child, a birth that will probably kill her, you are seriously messed up. How, indeed, does that qualify as "protecting the children"? Get real.

@preceded I think most people would agree they would rather have a shot at making it at life ,however small the chance. I feel bad for that 10 year old girl and I believe that is grounds for lifelong punishment for the father. But because she is pregnant does not mean she will have to take care of the baby. It may be sad for a while but both of them will end up in an orphanage. But growing up in an orphanage till you are old enough to go out on your own is much preffered to never getting to live at all. To be honest I have never been in that situation and I doubt you have been either. But their is always a better way than killing a baby OR taking the chance at life away from a glob of useless cells. Being uncomfortable for 9 months till the baby is born is a small price to pay for a new baby in the world. I do not want people to get pregnant by rape, but it happens. the choice is do you want more loss of life or less. If the mother of the baby is in danger I would say that would ba a judement call for the husband and wife. In the case of rape or incest the mother can make the choice whether she will risk her own life or keep it. but my point is most of the time the prople do not want the baby and get rid of it because they don't care.

@cb14: No, you didn't answer those questions. What you did was to assert that the unborn have rights, and ignored my question as to what you were basing that assertion. It isn't the Constituion of the United States. That question has been answered for nearly 40 years. I read your personal feelings, and you should be allowed to be guided by them; but you don't get to make the decision for everyone. When you talk about "rights" of citizens of the USA, born on Earth among Earthlings, it has a more specific meaning.

On a personal note. God is everything. Nothing, not no one, deprives God of anything. Not ever even a little bit!

Being uncomfortable for 9 months till the baby is born is a small price to pay for a new baby in the world.

You have got to be f---ing kidding me. "Uncomfortable"?! Don't you think that's a bit of an understatement? The ten year old girl is raped by her father, and you "feel bad for her" being "uncomfortable". Please tell me you are a man, because that way I could at least write off your stupidity to a lack of being able to relate to rape and/or pregnancy, but if you are a female, then you should be seriously ashamed at yourself. By forcing this girl to continue with her pregnancy, you would be sentencing her (and likely her child) to a slow and miserable death. By all means, please explain how that justifies your misguided crusade to "save the children".

I am really at a loss to understand why you think a lifetime of being raised in an orphanage, or by unfit, unloving parents, or being tossed around the social system, only to be spit out at age 18 to a lifetime of derision is better than a merciful death. I really DON'T agree that "most people would want a shot" at that kind of life, if it was their only choice. But then again, killing a blastocyst, zygote, fetus, whatever is NOT truly a death, since that implies you'd have to be living first, but I'm trying to break it down into terms that your simplistic world view will let you comprehend.

Tell me this. If life begins at conception, which you must believe it does to be calling a zygote a "child", then would not a woman who miscarries naturally be charged with accidental homicide? Or a fetus that is a danger to the woman be a murderer? You need to at least be consistent with your views. Think of all the women and fetuses we could be throwing in prison and getting off the welfare system!

@G-dog I am making the assertion on the fact that if a born person has these right why shouldn't an unborn person have them. The main reason I have the beliefs is because I trust the Bible but when I use it as a source you guys mock it. I could give you quote after quote from the Bible but would you really care unless you knew the Bible was true. I am trying to make you understand that Woman are not the only people on the planet with rights that need protecting. You can believe what you want about when life begins, but when you hear that little heart beat, when you see the baby developing in the womb. You come and tell me that is not a living thing because as far as I am concerned if it can be killed or "aborted" It had to be started. This is my opinion. Do not act like I am any different than you guys forcing your opinions on everybody else.

@peceded You are right I have no idea what it fells like to be a woman but a ten year old girl has little hope of giving birth to a baby without the baby or her dying. I would make a case for abortion there. THE ONLY CASE.

Now you are starting to advocate"mercy killings". I guess we should go to Africa and wipe out all the poor for the sake of "mercy". I wish we did not have to worry about things like orphanages, BUT WE DO. I am sure people hate living ike that but how come they don't all kill themself if they would rather be dead? People should be able to make the most of life with what they can do.

When a woman miscarries it is not her fault unless she did something to kill the baby (aka Drink, do drugs, harmful activities etc..). She is not to blame if she was not trying to do it. It is like when someone dies in an accident, no one wanted that to happen and if it was a real accident no one is sent to prison. I hope I have made my points clear.

CB14,

KEEP YOUR RELIGION OUT OF MY GOVERNMENT. Are we forcing you to have an abortion? No. You ARE trying to force your belief system on everyone else, and it IS different because you have nothing, absolutely nothing, to back up your statements except the Bible. I'd also invite you to read what someone else posted on here about the Bible stating that it's perfectly acceptable for unruly children to be beaten & stoned to death. Love how you Christians cherry pick the parts of the Bible that you choose to follow.

By the way, can you tell me what passage in the Bible speaks to abortion? Or what it has to say about the rights of women? Or can you tell me what the Bible says about when, exactly, life begins?

And, you do make your "point" clear, you utterly fail to make the distinction between an abortion and "mercy killings" (your statement, by the way, not what I said) of the poor. Also, of course it's not a woman's fault when she miscarries, obviously, that's why she would have to be guilty of involuntary manslaughter. You can be sent to prison for such a thing, you know.

Save your Biblical lectures for church. We don't live in a religious theocracy, so until you can come up with some concrete evidence that you're killing a "child" and not a fetus, your beliefs have no place in our laws.

@cb14: Your opinion does not trump the law of the land, which has ruled that the unborn do not have those rights because they are not citizens and are not protected by our law which does protect the pregnant citizen. The court ruled that (within limits) pregnancy is a medical condition to be dealt with on a patient-doctor basis. We leave the decision with our people, not by force of government or the belief's of some.

I have not mocked the Bible. I have said you have the right to your own spiritual beliefs. So does everyone. Must people who believe in God believe in the Bible? Must they share your exact interpretation of it? Does our country bow to the whims of any religious text because a large population demands it? You think God created Time and this Universe, and is unhappy with something about it? I'm entitled to my beliefs too.

@preceded

Now the word of the LORD came to me saying, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations." (NAS, Jeremiah 1:4-5) There are others but this one brings across the point that we are made at conception.

This next arguement is by a man named Matt Slick. It presents a logical arguement against abortion

1. What is growing in the womb of the woman is alive.
   1. Even one-celled creatures are alive.
   2. What is growing in the woman is more than a one-celled creature.
2. The nature of the life in the woman is human.
   1. It is the product of human DNA; therefore, its nature, its essence, is undeniably human.
   2. Because it is human in nature, if left to live, it will result in a fully developed human baby.
   3. Humans are humans not because they have feet, hands, walk vertically, and speak, etc. Not all people have feet, hands, can walk, and speak. They are humans because of their nature, their essence, not because of physical abilities or disabilities.
   4. 1. A person born without arms and legs is still human.
      2. A person who cannot speak is still human.
      3. A person in a coma, helpless, unaware, unmoving, is still human by nature and it is wrong to murder such a person.
   5. What is growing in the womb does not have the nature of an animal, bird, or fish. It has human nature.
      1. If it is not human in nature, then what nature is it?
      2. If it is not human in nature, then does it have a different nature than human?
         1. If so, then from where did it get this different nature, since the only sources of its nature are human egg and human sperm?
   6. Objection: A cell in the body has human DNA and is alive and it's okay to kill it. So, it doesn't make any difference with a fetus.
      1. Though it is true that a cell in the human body has DNA and is alive, a cell (muscle cell, skin cell, etc.) has the nature of being only what it is -- not a human. In other words, a muscle cell is by nature a muscle cell. A skin cell is by nature a skin cell. But the fertilized egg of a human is, by nature, that very thing which becomes a fully developed human. Its nature is different than that of muscle or skin cells because these do not grow into humans. Therefore, a human cell and a human egg are not the same thing.
         A fertilized human egg has the nature of human development and it is alive. This is not so with a muscle or skin cell.
3. To abort the life, which is human in nature, is to kill that which is human in nature.
4. Therefore, abortion is killing a life which is human by nature.
   1. Where, then, does the mother get the right to kill the human within her?

A question for those who believe in abortion, and that the life in the womb is not human. Is it okay to take a fertilized egg between a man and a woman and place it in the womb of a dog?

• If you say no, then why? If it is not human then it doesn't matter, right?
• If you say no because it will become a human, then you admit that it has human nature and is alive. If it is human in nature and alive, then you do not have the right to abort it.
• If you say it is alright, why is it okay?

@G-dog If you really believe we can all have our opinion you would not have challenged mine. It would just be my opinion that doesn't matter but to me millions of babies are dying every year because of what you say is a "right". I have made my point you can bash it all you want. I am just defending my beliefs against those who would seek to challenge them.

Now the word of the LORD came to me saying, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations." (NAS, Jeremiah 1:4-5) There are others but this one brings across the point that we are made at conception.

You've got to be kidding me. You lost all credibility right there. Are you quoting Bible verses to me? Really? Now you've done it. I was raised by Bible thumpers like you, I've had enough of it. GET YOUR F---ING RELIGION OUT, OUT OUT OUT OUT OF MY UTERUS! OUT OF MY GOVERNMENT! HAVE I MADE MYSELF CLEAR? Cool, you're Christian, I'm not, I'm a rational person, so keep it to yourself. By the way, your comparisons of abortion and implanting a fetus in the womb of a dog is just as much BS as this whole "nature of life" crap you're spewing. We are done here.

PS: If the "Lord" knew us all before we were in the womb, then he knew that some of us were going to go on and have abortions, or "sin" in other ways, so is thereby creating sinners and then banishing them to hell. Guess I'll see ya there!

Final to cb14: You are the worst kind of theocrat, and the acceptance of your kind of thinking into the Republican Party has cost them all 'legitimacy'. You are not seeking to defend, you are seeking to impose. Fuggetaboutit.

This 10 year old girl that got raped by her father.

I can't deny that is a tough tragic story. I won't insult anyone with a simple solution.

But allow me to make a point. Can we really justify 55 million abortions because of one girl?

Of the 55 million abortion, how many were due to father rape? How many were caused by irresponsible sex? How can anyone justify 55 million abortions because girls just want to have fun? See that is what I mean by liberals twisting the truths and facts.

Pbn

What makes liberals hate religion so much. Vile anger. Wow, talk about extreme.

Talk about being hypocritical. Keep yelling those names. Racist, Sexist, Haters.

Keep posting please. Your post are showing people your true colors. Your responses do a better job than any conservative talk show host to show the fallacies of your beliefs.

I seems as though you all have hidden agendas.

What makes liberals hate religion so much

Not all liberals hate religion, but I could go on about how historically religion has been used to control and manipulate or kill off vast groups of people. I personally do not "hate" religion. I do wonder why people continue to believe in archaic falsehoods, but as long as you keep it to yourself I don't really care much what you believe. I know many people, including my own parents, who are comforted by many aspects of religion, or inspired to do true good by religion, and that's just fine by me. Unfortunately, religion as a whole does not have the reputation of "doing good", historically speaking.

The problem comes, Don, and let me be very clear because this is an important distinction, when you try to use religion to support legal actions to restrict the rights of others. If you do not understand this distinction, you're not on a level to debate this.

Your responses do a better job than any conservative talk show host to show the fallacies of your beliefs.

I seems as though you all have hidden agendas.

On the contrary, my posts have done nothing but prove the fallacies of your beliefs. You have yet to provide direct evidence or citations to disprove anything I've said. It's also pretty clear that the Republicans have the (not so very well) hidden agendas: the problem is we can see right through the lies you're spewing.

God can tell someone to not get an abortion, --but YOU AIN'T GOD. I'm as much a part of God as you are, so climb down off your high horse and realize that you're just a little piece of God - just like everybody else.

Some of you white, useless republicans are pathetic.

So now, since you know you're about to lose this election, a bunch of you are beginning to act like you're posting either as democrats, black people, or President Obama supporters, with your ignorance ass statements like the one you've made above.

Pathetic, and evidence of desperation!!!

OBAMA/BIDEN....2012!!!!