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Winslow Townson / AP
President Barack Obama shakes hands with supporters during a campaign stop in Windham, N.H., Saturday, Aug. 18, 2012. (AP Photo/Winslow Townson)
Jim Cole / AP
President Barack Obama waves as he leaves a campaign stop Saturday, in Rochester, N.H.
ROCHESTER, N.H. -- On the same day Republican vice presidential hopeful Paul Ryan defended his Medicare plan in front of a crowd of senior citizens in Florida, President Barack Obama blasted the GOP ticket for proposing to raise costs for the elderly while slashing taxes for the wealthiest Americans.
"Their plan makes seniors pay more so that they can give another tax cut to rich folks who don't need a tax cut," the president said of Republicans on Saturday in front of a crowd of more than 3,500 supporters here.
Since Ryan was tapped as Mitt Romney's running mate Aug. 10, Medicare has become one of the most contentious issues of the election because of the controversial Ryan budget that proposed dramatic changes to the government program.
Obama blasted Republicans for wanting to turn Medicare into a voucher system.
"Meanwhile Gov. Romney and Congressman Ryan want to give seniors a voucher to buy insurance on their own," the president said, citing an analysis that found the plan could cost seniors $6,400 extra each year.
"How many people think that's a good deal? That doesn’t strengthen Medicare, it undoes the very guarantee of Medicare," he said. "But that's the core of the plan written by Congressman Ryan and endorsed by Gov. Romney."
The president's remarks in New Hampshire were largely a response to earlier attacks from the presumptive GOP nominee in his first installment of what will become a weekly podcast.
"I think it’s outrageous that the president took $716 billion out of the Medicare trust fund to pay for Obamacare," Romney said.
And shortly after the podcast was released, Romney quickly got some backup from his newest teammate. Ryan was joined by his 78-year-old mother at a rally in The Villages, Fla., the world's largest senior citizens community. “Here is what the president won’t tell you about his Medicare plan—about Obamacare," Ryan told the crowd. "The president raids $716 billion from the Medicare program to pay for the Obamacare program.”
And while the president was on the defensive regarding Medicare, he also continued to focus attention on tax rates. Throughout his stops in New Hampshire, he asserted that under Ryan's budget, Romney would pay less than 1 percent in taxes.
"That's a pretty good deal, just paying 1 precent in taxes -- you're making millions of dollars. Here's the kicker, they expect you to pick up the tab," he told the crowd here.
This week Obama campaign manager Jim Messina sent a letter to his counterpart in the Romney campaign, stating Democrats would drop their calls for the former Massachusetts governor to release more tax returns if he made the past five years public. Romney campaign manager Matt Rhoades quickly responded, calling the letter another attempt for the Obama campaign to distract from a failed economic record.
The Romney campaign was again quick to respond to the president's attacks Saturday, calling them false and another way for the campaign to avoid talking about the president's record. Romney spokesman Ryan Williams blasted out a response: "Following news that 44 out of 50 states saw their unemployment rates rise, it is not surprising the president is launching yet another false attack."
The Granite State will have more action to look forward to on Monday, when Romney and Ryan will appear together in Manchester for a town hall.
Leave a Comment:
Glad you decided to take the high road and stop the lies, Barry. Oh...my bad. Carry on.
Being owned by the 1%, the Repubes have no other choice but to cut taxes for the wealthiest by stealing it from everyone else.
Our 9% approval rated Republican Congress is the best that money can buy!!!!!
O&Joe 2012
The GOP/TP started the war on Medicare - and now they have one. Obviously they aren't to smart when it comes to picking their battles.
You know, at this point I am sick of talking about medicare or hearing about it. What I want is to see ALL americans working together, getting along, just being one country - screw right or left. Just be in the middle and all get along for the benefit of the whole of the country.
You know if we had universal health-care (like practically every other industrialized country in the world) this would be a non-issue.
Good God, if a third world country like Cuba can provide quality/inexpensive health-care to all its citizens, why can't we?
How about this?
End the class warfare.
We want jobs.
We want energy independence.
Do this and America will be fine.
Barrack Obama...FAILED LEADERSHIP
The GOP/TP started the war on Medicare - and now they have one.
Yeah Red - Its funny how things tend to blow up in their faces, and even funnier watching them try to back pedal to save their asses. However, its to late for them to save their butts and everybody knows it.
Talk about egg on your face. The Repubes had the hen house dropped on them......
O&Joe 2012
Old fat guy, "failed leadership" in what way? I don't understand. Obama has accomplished more in 4 years for the working people then Bush did if he had 100 years. Now there is a failed leadership. George W. Bush.
Obama/Biden 1012
Old fat guy
Failed leadership is right. But you placed your distain in the wrong place. Congress is where the failure begins, the Republicans specifically. When the 'loyal opposition' states the first day that their mission is to make the President a one-term president what do you expect.
When the Republicans vowed to concentrate on 'jobs, jobs, jobs' and yet did nothing except to attack women's rights, and vote ad nauseum on Obamacare, what do you expect.
The President proposed jobs bills and the House shut them down.
The President and Boner came to a 'grand agreement' to keep our credit rating and still cut the debt and the Repubs pulled Boner's chain and suddenly we get a lowered credit rating, after all, their primary misdion is to make the President look bad, not what is good for the country, so what do you expect?
Nobody, I repeat, nobody can lead when the 'loyal' (and I use the term loosely here) refuses to compromise.
I get it that you don't like the President, but the least you can do for your country and it's future is look at what really happened, not make up things that you think support your hatred of one man.
Fact about Medicare:
FACT: Health care reform (Affordable Care Act) strengthens Medicare benefits, including lower premiums, free preventive care, and cheaper prescription drugs per Medicare Experts.
FACT: Health care reform already saved Medicare recipients nearly $4 billion on prescription drugs.
FACT: President Obama’s health care law already saving seniors money through lower premiums and free preventive services like cancer screenings, .
FACT: Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) saves Medicare more than $716 billion by cutting waste and insurance company subsidies, and extends Medicare life by 8 years.
FACT: Romney and Ryan would give $150 billion in subsidies back to insurance companies and, amazingly, undo progress to cut out Medicare fraud and abuse.
FACT: Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan’s plan to repeal Obamacare would raise Medicare premiums and prescription drug costs for seniors at least 50% more.
FACT: Romney and Ryan would turn Medicare into a voucher system, raising seniors’ health care costs while giving tax cuts to millionaires & billionaires, and bankrupt Medicare program in 4 years.
FACT: The Romney-Ryan voucher plan for Medicare could raise seniors’ health care costs by $6,400 a year per CBO analyst.
**Please help spread the true about Medicare to seniors you know like in your neighbors, community or show them a video link below. **
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QQxGEQm6Qo&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJb6tA1cXT0&feature=g-all-u
Yet another mischaracterization (lie) by President Obama. The article states that Medicare has been one of the primary issues since Ryan's selection. Unfortunately, all the info coming out of the Democratic camp currently is being skewed to make the Ryan Plan look like some scary monstrosity that seniors should run from. Here's an interesting quote from Erskine Bowles (Democrat for those of you who don't know):
That quote is pulled directly from the Huffington Post, incidentally.
Also, are you aware that the "Ryan Plan" is actually the "Wyden-Ryan Plan"? Ryan's bipartisanship mentality led him to cooperate on the bill with Ron Wyden, a Senator from Oregon whom MSNBC characterizes as "a prominent Democrat."
So we have a bill that was co-authored by an intelligent Republican and a prominent Democrat that is honest and admirable, even according to hard leftists like Erskine Bowles. Yet Obama is out there criticizing it and trying to make it appear as something else entirely.
Mischaracterization at its finest. As Obama said in 2008:
"If you don't have a record to run on, then you paint your opponent as someone people should run from."
Romney, Ryan, and Republicans are not telling seniors the true. The savings achieved in Medicare through the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) would help stabilize Medicare by eliminating overpayments to private insurances, hospital, and pharmaceutical that encourages greater efficiency. As a result, the law extends the life of the Medicare trust fund by eight years and allows seniors to retain all of their guaranteed Medicare benefits. Medicare beneficiaries are already paying less for prescription drug coverage--Pharmaceutical manufacturers are required to provide a 50% discount on prescriptions filled in the Medicare Part D coverage gap. Seniors have already saved $3.5 billion on prescription drug costs thanks to the Affordable Care Act provision and receiving preventive care as a result of the law, while enrollment in Medicare Advantage has increased and premiums have fallen. The law, in other words, does exactly the opposite of Republicans claim: it expands Medicare “as we know it.” ACA do not take money out of Medicare beneficiary but it stabilize the Medicare program and it adds 8 years to Medicare life, and that is the fact that Republican try to spin and lie about it. {think progress}
If Romney repeals the ACA, it would bring back the Medicare-doughnut hole and have seniors pay 50% more for their prescription drug and health prevention services. Also, Romney would eliminate 8 years Medicare life that Mr. Obama instilled it into the program.
Romney & Ryan would take $716 billion dollars out of Medicare beneficiary and convert Medicare into a voucher / coupon and have seniors pay $6400 out of pocket and receive less medical services, in order to pay for millionaires and billionaires tax cut. Therefore, Mr. Romney & Ryan Medicare plan do not control cost or extend the life of Medicare but they will bankrupt Medicare in 4 years according to independent analyst.
http://www.youtube.com/v/0QQxGEQm6Qo&hl=en_US&fs=1&
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45755822/ns/msnbc_tv-the_ed_show/#48683300
How does GOP manage federal deficit by gut Medicare into a "coupon" and cut 19 million children from Medicaid, while given 10 Trillion dollars tax break to millionaires and billionaires, so super rich like Romney have more money to park it in Bermuda, Cayman Islands or Swiss Bank accounts? Does this makes sense to you?
How do you save Medicare by turning it into a coupon program and have seniors pay an extra $6,400 out of pocket and get less medical services, while is given 10 trillion dollars tax cut to millionaires and billionaires, and over $40 billion dollars subsidize to oil industry? Is that a real solution? BTW, Washington Post & Paul Krugman have said that Ryan & Romney are fiscal phony whose tax cut for super rich would create 5 trillion dollars in federal deficit in 10 years, while Mr. Obama would save 2.5 trillion dollars in the same period.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWyk-Mr6cfc&feature=player_embedded
dsb...
The president proposed jobs bills??? Just get the heck out of the way and let America work.
Do you remember Keystone Pipeline???
Do you remember shutting down drilling in the gulf???
Republicans have stood in the way of not one woman's right to do anything. That would have been the muslims.
Republicans were told on day one to sit in the back of the bus and with a super majority in both houses Obama could have done anything he wanted instead he FAILED TO LEAD.
ONE AND DONE!!!
43 STRAIGHT months of unemployment at 8% or greater. lol
Jon C -
43 straight months of job increases. Its not much, but we're slowly chipping away at that 8% that the Bush, Repube Congress, and Senate caused during their reign from 2000-2006. So stop Blaming Obama, and get your facts straight before you post....
O&Joe 2012 (In a Landslide)
Hah! Hah! You Republicans and Teabaggers keep staying in Denial.
You're NOT just LOSING the Election,
You've ALREADY LOST.
You might as well stay home.
Your "Etch-A-Scetch", wannabe "Outsourcer and Chief", Liar, Tax-Cheat, Pension Fund Thief, and possible Felon, Mitt Romney, is no match for our Chicago street-fighting hero, Obama the Great and Merciful.
Our "base" is Energized, and we'll have every Policeman, Fireman, Teacher, Woman, Person of Color, Chcano, Mexican, and all Independents and Undecided Voters, voting a straight Democratic ticket come this November 2012.
We don't want the 1% percenters and Mitt Romney and the Republicans Controlling the Rest of Us, and Destroying the Middle-class. No way.
Us Middle-class folk are going to send Mitt Romney and his Republican puppet-masters, "Back to the Dung Heap" of History", where they all belong.
I'm sure you All agree!
Right?
ps. Is this a Great post, or what?
That's a lovely sentiment, phine. However, the current reality in America is that a sizeable number of citizens are committed to bringing down President Obama at any cost, including the health and welfare of our seniors.
We are in a battle for our very lives. We will have to fight tooth and nail. Put on your kevlar, girl, and get out there.
We can be sick and tired of the conflict later, after we re-elect the President. :)
Hey rereg - the only one on welfare is you. What are on you 20-30 new accounts to avoid detection? You must have learned those fraud techniques when you signed up as a multi-welfare recipient.
Give me a break! The Republicans can no more change the tax code for the wealthy than the Democrats. the votes have to pass in order for anything to take effect. Why do you think that the current administration has accomplished nothing? Each four year term for Presidents, the parties try to make each other look bad while never accomplishing anything for the people of this country. I am sorry to burst your bubble here, but there are even more wealthy Democrats who would love to pad thier pockets even more b y cuts for the wealthy. It is not all Republican. As far as the war, we should demand that it end now, not in 2014. Service members are dying from supposed "allies" shooting them in the back. Time to let them live in the stone age and get our people home. Big, big barrel of money saved when we stop paying them to be our friends.
Jon Corzine -- "43 straight months of unemployment at 8% or greater. lol"
Why would you "laugh out loud" at such a depressing statistic? Do you hate America? Are you Iranian? Oh wait, let me guess: You're Eric Cantor and everything is going well according to your diabolical plan....
Kelly: How do you continue to PAY for Medicare when we are borrowing money each and every year to keep it intact. You see this is the problem with liberals - at some point you find out the fairy dust and the "money tree" doesn't really exist and all these "free" items you want actually cost money - cost money we don't have.
This is synonymous to the family that makes $50,000 a year but spends $75,000 a year. At some point (either by realizing or by the bank finally refusing to lend you any money) you must stop. That you WANT to continue going on a vacation every year or driving a new car every year you finally realize it cannot continue in its current form. Same with Social Security and Medicare. You CANNOT continue to to keep unsustainable programs regardless of how much fairy dust or money trees you THINK exist.
CubsFan2012
Yet another mischaracterization (lie) by President Obama
........Well folks, judge for yourselves how much credibility to give to someone intelligent enough to be a Cubs Fan (and admit it), this is kind of like the RedSoxRules oxymoron, they are mired in 4th place. Go Yankees!
Jon Corzine
The rich think of solutions.
.....Really, why do they keep them to themselves, maybe they should clue Romney in, he keeps telling us he will give us the details after he is elected, i.e., trust him, it would be nice to know now.
John,
I agree,
He as bankrupted more insurance companies than any president before. Funny thing, the ACA was supposed to create competition, not eliminate it.
He has made business fear so rising costs from healthcare and regulations they aren't moving unless the profits are going to be really high.
Even if they want a loan, because of his regulations, they can't get one. Banks no longer make loan decisions, they follow the regulations the democrats installed. Just about no business qualifies.
His policies have led to the slowest recovery since the Great Depression.
He might have gotten Bin Laden, but Afghanistan looks like the Taliban is getting ready to take control after we leave.
He tinkered with the Egyptian democracy movement to depose an not so great Mubarack only to open the door to the Muslim Brotherhood that is currently cleansing every organization of any resistance.
He stalled the Keystone Pipeline long enough that Canada decide to build it's own pipeline to the Pacific so they can sell the Petroleum directly to the Chinese.
He gave a huge chunk of GM to the Union Pension fund totally dissing 401-k holders.
He still holds a 35 Billion in GM stock that if sold would give the taxpayers a loss.
He gave $10,000 rebates on the Volt which production has been suspended.
He revived the solyndra project only to have it tank. After it tanked he still went to a fundraiser hosted by the Solyndra executivies who made a $50,000 contribution to his campaign.
He as set the record for attending presidential campaign fundraisers for a sitting president - Impressive!
Yes, there are far too many accomplishments to type here.
Us Freedom Loving Americans, Independents, and Undecided Voters, do Not want to go Back to the Bush/Cheney/Darth Vader years, of Karl Rove, Haliburton Oil, Blackwater Mercenaries, etc. etc. ad naseum.
Did I alrady mention Karl Rove? He already has his dirty-little hands in the Romney capaign giving Millions and Millions of dirty Pac dollars to Romney.
Look at it this way. Rightwing wacko, Racist talk-show host Glen Back, is a right-wing Mormon and a Jerk. Everybody knows it. It's a given, and Glenn Beck Loves Mitt Romney who is also a Mormon. Need I say more?
And how come there's no Christian Crosses on any Mormon Church? How come? What do Mormons have on the top of their spires? CRESCENT MOONS, perhaps? Are they a CULT? What SECRET black Art Esoteric PRACTICES do they Engage in, inside their Temples. Is it even Legal?
plus Paul Ryan worships the Atheist author Ayn Rand, who is quoted as saying Poor people are "Lice and Parasites".
Do you really want these Rightwing Extremists in the White House?
I don't. Do you?
It would be going back to the Bush/Cheney/Karl Rove years.
Yuck.
Paul Ryan is an idiot. He admitted himself that he has not even run the numbers on this budget plan he has been bragging about. What kind of slimebag gets on the national stage, boasts about how much money their plan will save, without checking the math?
Phinephancy -- I can understand how you are sick of talking about medicare and the other things that are dividing our country and stirring up rancor and hate. It can get tiresome. But to consider the tactics of the "right" and the "left" as equal is, well, a false equivalency. This is a real battle, with real consequences. This is not the time for apathy or to be complacent.
By the way, I have read some things about your struggles and I wish you well. I don't know you but I rejoice in your victories.
Everybody should vote a straight democratic ticket and send a message to the GOP obstructionists that they are done for if they don't start honestly working for what is best for the country.
Bush who?
Jon, I see you hae your Etch-a-Sketch handy.....
Obama/Biden 2012
phinephancy-4252115....."You know, at this point I am sick of talking about medicare or hearing about it. What I want is to see ALL americans working together, getting along, just being one country - screw right or left. Just be in the middle and all get along for the benefit of the whole of the country."
Comon Phiney.......
You know that Mr. Obama has stated over and over and over that he "wants to unite America" and that America is not "Red, White, or (whatever), it is one country, one people......Americans." Yeah, right. The only thing he has done since he has been in office is creating a "DIVISION" between Americans on EVERY ISSUE, whether it be on JOBS, immigration, health care, deficit, national security, or whatever is on the menu that particular day. Anything to divert from the real issues facing America. Someone call for a search team: Mr. Obama is missing from his work at the White House.
"What I want is to see ALL americans working together, getting along, just being one country."
I suggest you direct that comment to Mr. Obama, Mr. Biden, Obama's campaign staff in Chicago, Obama's Senior Campaign Adviser in the White House, Obama's White House press staff, and Obama's radio/T.V. surrogates. While you are at it, tell all them the main issues of this campaign are: ECONOMY AND JOBS and not someones tax returns. Further, it is time Mr. Obama TOOK DOWN his "Wish Obama Happy Birthday" ad from the Internet......that is getting rather old.
Romney-Ryan 2012 to take back America from the radicals.
JonCorzine -- I already knew that you wanted to portray President Obama as a failure. But you must also know that republican obstructionists have contributed greatly to the slowing of the recovery. You do know this, right? Right? Never mind, you'll deny it anyway.
So tell me the truth: You really are Eric Cantor, aren't you?
phinephancy: glad you want to settle in the middle. So, the left wants to raise the national debt and the right wants to lower the national debt. So, the middle is to keep the national debt where it is at. Which party comes closest to keeping the national debt where it is at? Now, can you figure out who has no desire to compromise?
Easy come, easy go. Fortunes are made and fortunes are lost. If you think you are financially secure, you are fooling yourself.
Nor do you need to. The middle class in America is the most productive work force in the history of the world. But take away our public education system and the entire country will fail.
The rich ARE the sponges.
The rich think of themselves. They should move to their own island. We would be better off without those greedy bloodsuckers, like Romney.
Phinephancy,
It is fanciful to think that GOP wants to work with Democrats - GOP seniors and corporates swore to obstruct our economic recovery on day one of this Presidency.
And THEY DID block all attempts:
With the goal of the "sh..t rolling down on Obama" (to quote McConnell).
This is not the time to pray for the right wing to change!
RomneyRyan want to END Medicare, raise taxes on the middle class, while giving themselves a new $5Trillion tax cut = $250,000 at least for each of them, and extend the Bush tax cuts and put it all on the deficit.
Deficit hawks, fiscal wonks - they are not. They want more cash at your expense, at the expense of your life.
They don't care about YOU, Phine. They don't. Sorry.
(Joncorzine) All i see out of you are one liners no facts just running off at the mouth so welcome to my ignore list. Really if you have nothing factual to say please say nothing because no one is listening to the likes of you.
Phine,
This is about what will happen to millions of folks in the future:
If GOP ends Medicare,
And "Kills the ACA dead" (Romney),
And "gets rid of Planned Parenthood" (Romney).
Where will ordinary folks go to get preventive care and treatment then?
But please know that everyone on here that I know, cares about you very much. Very, very much indeed.
Buying the election is the republicon way. This is why Romneyhood wants to tax us more so he can give himself a big tax cut. The tax cuts he want are actually for more than just him. They are also for the billionaires bankrolling his campaign and funding the voter suppression laws.
Here are the culprits behind Citizens United.
According to the report, America for Sale: A Report on Billionaires Buying the 2012 Election, here are the 26 billionaires who are trying to buy your government:
1). Sheldon Adelson, owner of the Las Vegas Sands Casino, is worth nearly $25 billion, making him the 14th wealthiest person in the world and the 7th richest person in America. While median family income plummeted by nearly 40% from 2007-2010, Mr. Adelson has experienced a nearly eightfold increase in his wealth over the past three years (from $3.4 billion to $24.9 billion). Forbes recently reported that Adelson is willing to spend a “limitless” amount of money or more than $100 million to help defeat President Obama in November.
2. The Kochs (David, Charles, and William) are worth a combined $103 billion, according to Forbes. They have pledged to spend about $400 million during the 2012 election season. The Kochs own more wealth than the bottom 41.7 percent of American households or more than 49 million Americans.
3. Jim Walton is worth $23.7 billion. He has donated $300,000 to super PACs in 2012.
4. Harold Simmons is worth $9 billion. He has donated $15.2 million to super PACs this year.
5. Peter Thiel is worth $1.5 billion. He has donated $6.7 million to Super PACs this year.
6. Jerrold Perenchio is worth $2.3 billion. He has donated $2.6 million to super PACs this year.
7. Kenneth Griffin is worth $3 billion and he has given $2.08 million to super PACs in 2012.
8. James Simons is worth $10.7 billion and he has given $1.5 million to super Pacs this year.
9. Julian Robertson is worth $2.5 billion and he has given $1.25 million to super PACs this year.
10. Robert Rowling is worth $4.8 billion and he has given $1.1 million to super PACs.
11. John Paulson, the hedge fund manager who made his fortune betting that the sub-prime mortgage market would collapse, is worth $12.5 billion. He has donated $1 million to super PACs.
12. Richard and J.W. Marriott are worth a combined $3.1 billion and they have donated $2 million to super PACs this year.
13. James Davis is worth $1.9 billion and he has given $1 million to super PACs this year.
14. Harold Hamm is worth $11 billion and he has given $985,000 to super PACs this year.
15. Kenny Trout is worth more than $1.2 billion and he has given $900,000 to super PACs this year.
16. Louis Bacon is worth $1.4 billion and he has given $500,000 to super PACs this year.
17. Bruce Kovner is worth $4.5 billion and he has given $500,000 to super PACs this year.
18. Warren Stephens is worth $2.7 billion and he has given $500,000 to super PACs this year.
19. David Tepper is worth $5.1 billion and he has given $375,000 to super PACs this year.
20. Samuel Zell is worth $4.9 billion and he has given $270,000 to super PACs this year.
21. Leslie Wexner is worth $4.3 billion and he has given $250,000 to super PACs this year.
22. Charles Schwab is worth $3.5 billion and he has given $250,000 to super PACs this year.
23. Kelcy Warren is worth $2.3 billion and he has given $250,000 to super PACs this year.
The thing that these billionaires love most about Citizens United it is that it allows them to operate in total darkness. The American people couldn’t fight back because the billionaires were giving their money anonymously. This same cloak of invisibility is what made ALEC so effective for years. The conservative billionaire cabal works best in private, behind closed doors, far away from curious eyes.
These are the ones paying for the paid propagandists infesting this site.
Let's really give them something to be afraid of. Let's re-elect OBAMA/BIDEN by a landslide and crush Romney/Ryan!
Even if you were correct (and you're not) that Obama's inability to keep his promises was due to lack of Republican support; so what! It doesn't matter who is to blame. Obama couldn't make progress in his first term; why would anyone imagine he could do any better during a second term. A Romney administration will not have to deal with Obama's fictional problem and will, therefore, be far more effective.
An adequate President is able to create consensus out of political strife. For whatever reason (probably his reflexive finger-pointing), Obama has been a total failure at bringing people together.
Let's really give them something to be afraid of. Let's re-elect OBAMA/BIDEN by a landslide and crush Romney/Ryan!
No, that will not make them afraid. Obama is just another pawn of the rich. What will make them afraid is rising up and not voting for Republican or Democrat.
Late to the party as usual ... but seriously JonCorzine ...
The so-called RICH think of nothing but lining their own pockets and how to make their personal lives better. They've no solutions for us little commoners. The current "rich" running for the presidency listen to Sheldon Adelson and what HE wants. The rest of this country wants a president who knows how to get things done. Sorry, Sparky, slow and steady is a very good path. Going backwards is NOT what this country needs.
4 more for 44!
Mklkit, wow -
Well done,
And thank you for the LIST of folks who are spending hard (peanuts for Billionaires like them):
To end Democracy in the U.S.A.
Mklkit - How come your list omitted so many like George Soros and George Kaiser? For example:
George Kaiser, an Oklahoma billionaire, invested $400 million in Solyndra through an investment vehicle connected to his family foundation. Kaiser was a "bundler" for Obama's 2008 campaign, raising between $50,000 and $100,000 for the president, records show. He also made multiple visits to the White House in the months just before the company was granted a $535 million loan from the government. The company then went bankrupt, putting 1,100 employees out of work.
I see Obama is playing the class warfare game. Its always some sorta game with him. Don't be fooled America. Obama is trashing the economy. We are at the fiscal cliff.
US DEBTCLOCK.ORG
You are grasping at straws.
Even Romney had his own failed green energy $$experiment with a company called KONARKA.
Btw, do you remember, the Challenger spaceshuttle that blew up in the mid-80's? How much do you think it cost to build? The future requires experimentation - that's how we went to the moon and have the internet.
(And the billionaires who are giving cash to the Democratic campaign, don't want to END DEMOCRACY - whereas your guys DO.)
Kannin,
How come your list only has 2 names? And one of them you've whined about over and over and over. Good God, isn't it okay for one billionaire to have a conscience? You people (sorry Queen Anne if I infringed on your copyright), have been using George Soros as the liberal boogeyman for about a dozen election cycles. It must be hard for you people (sorry again Queen Anne-so sue me) to point fingers at the millions of Democratic donors who give a hundred bucks or less so they can have some semblance of a voice in what used to be a democratic process before Citizens United.
No Bain/No Pain 2012.
Mr. US Debt Clock,
THE DEBT was run up via a failed trickle-down Ayn Rand/Milton Friedman approach started in the 1980's:
Exacerbated by unpaid-for TWO wars, Pharma deal, and massive tax cuts skewed to the wealthy - run up on a credit card, under the BUSH ADMINISTRATION.
President Bush went from a large surplus to massive deficit in 8 years.
Note that Romney/Ryan want to do it AGAIN with another round of Bush tax cuts, and and additional $5Trillion tax cut for the wealthy - while raising taxes on everybody else.
Not my fault. Not your fault. And not President Obama's fault.
You know, German, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter.
Your friend, Dick.
Sorry, I didn't know you were interested, but since you ask, here is a more complete list for you. Enjoy:
Chris Albrecht, HBO chairman
Big Kenny Alphin, recording artist
Marc Andreessen, Internet pioneer
Jennifer Aniston, actress
Rosanna Arquette, actress
Tyra Banks model, talk show host
Lawrence Bender, producer
Halle Berry, actress
Valerie Bertinelli, actress
Arthur Blank, Falcons owner
Judy Blume, author
Steven Bochco, producer, writer
Andy Borowitz, satirist, writer
Zach Braff, actor
Steve Brill, Court TV founder
Christie Brinkley, model
James L Brooks, producer, director
Jackson Browne, musician
Warren Buffett, billionaire
Mark Burnett, game show producer
Ken Burns, independent filmmaker
Peter Buttenwieser, political fundraiser
Kate Capshaw, actress
Michael Chabon, author
Jay Chandrasekhar, director, writer
Peter Chernin, News Corporation president
Richard A Clarke, security expert
George Clooney, actor
Cindy Crawford, model
Drew Curtis, fark.com founder
Jamie Lee Curtis, actress
Larry David, comedian, writer
Laurie David writer, activist
Barry Diller, media mogul
Paul Dooley, actor
Michael Douglas, actor, director
Michael Eisner, Disney CEO
Kenneth Feinberg, attorney
Tom Ford, fashion designer
Jodie Foster, actress
Jamie Foxx actor, comedian
Morgan Freeman, actor
David Geffen, Dreamworks co-founder
Jami Gertz, actress
Charles Gifford, Bank of America chairman
Cuba Gooding Jr., actor
Berry Gordy, record producer, entrepreneur
Lou Gossett Jr., actor
Brian Grazer, producer
Jasmine Guy, actress
Herbie Hancock, musician
Tom Hanks, actor
Tom Hayden, activist, author
Dennis Haysbert, actor
Christie Hefner, Playboy CEO
Hugh Hefner, Playboy founder
Cheryl Hines, actress
Bruce Hornsby, recording artist
Ron Howard, director, producer
Phil Jackson, NBA coach, player
Samuel Jackson, actor
Scarlett Johansson, actress
Michael Jordan, basketball star
Vernon Jordan, Washington power broker
Jeffrey Katzenberg, Dreamworks co-founder
Gayle King, editor, Oprah’s BFF
David Koepp, screenwriter
Cedric ‘the Entertainer’ Kyle, comedian
Christine Lahti, actress
Sherry Lansing, Paramount Studios CEO
Sharon Lawrence, actress
Norman Lear, television producer
Julia Louis-Dreyfus, actress
Seth MacFarlane, animator, screenwriter
Tobey Maguire, actor
Norman Mailer, author
Natalie Maines, recording artist
Barry Manilow, singer/songwriter
Stephon Marbury, pro basketball player
Branford Marsalis, musician
Greg Mathis, TV judge
Bette Midler, singer, actress
John Morgridge, Cisco chairman
Rob Morrow, actor
Alonzo Mourning, NBA star
Eddie Murphy, actor, comedian
Paul Newman, actor, philanthropist
Craig Newmark, craigslist.org founder
Leonard Nimoy, actor
Edward Norton, actor
Rosie O’Donnell, actress, comedian
Stan O’Neal, Merrill Lynch CEO
Adrian Pasdar, actor
Holly Robinson Peete, actress
Sidney Poitier, actor
Ellen Pompeo, actress
Maury Povich, talkshow host
Penny Pritzker, hotel heiress
Harold Ramis, director, actor
Phylicia Rashad, actress
Jerry Reinsdorf, Chicago White Sox owner
Paul Reiser, comedian, actor
Chris Rock, comedian, actor
Robert Rubin, US Treasury Secretary
Edward Rust, State Farm CEO
Susan Sarandon, actress
Thomas Schlamme, producer, director
Howard Schultz, Starbucks CEO
Terry Semel, Yahoo CEO
Ben Silverman, NBC Universal chairman
James Sinegal, Costco CEO
Tom Skerritt, actor
Emmitt Smith, pro football player
Jada Pinkett Smith, actress
Will Smith, actor, recording artist
George Soros, financier
Steven Spielberg, filmmaker
Leigh Steinberg, sports agent
Fisher Stevens, actor
Ben Stiller, actor
Oliver Stone, director
Christine Taylor, actress
Richard Thalheimer, The Sharper Image CEO
Heather Thomas, actress
Garry Trudeau, cartoonist
Denzel Washington, actor
Isaiah Washington, actor
John Wells, television producer
Jann Wenner, Rolling Stone CEO
Tom Werner, Boston Red Sox co-owner
Forest Whitaker, actor, director
Paula White, megachurch “life coach”
Bradley Whitford, actor
Gene Wilder, actor
Rita Wilson, actress
Oprah Winfrey, talk show host, actress
Joanne Woodward, actress
Jeffrey Wright, actor
Robert Wright, NBC Universal head
Andrew Young, civil rights activist
Edward Zander, Motorola chairman
George Zimmer, Men’s Wearhouse CEO
German Gem ... seriously ... do you have anything ... ANYTHING pertinent to contribute to the thread??? So many post about the deficit and the fact that the President has actually reduced spending but put the wars on the books. Are you that reading challenged????? Or is that your only mission in life ... to post the debt clock. Get a life and get a thought of your own.
Nice list. Now I know who the intelligent people are, but you didn't provide the amounts they donated. All of them gave $250k or more no doubt? Since most of them are in the entertainment industry, I assume they have ulterior motives. They must be wanting huge tax breaks from the President. I'm sure they're demanding legislation that declares entertainment income be taxed at 15% or less. No wonder you people (sorry again Queen Anne) hate Hollywood Liberals so much. If it weren't for them, the campaign finance playing field would be absolutely tilted to the Republican side.
BTW, your redsoxsux persona must be really disappointed with one name on the list. In the words of George Zimmer, "I guarantee it!"
No Bain/No Pain 2012
Kannin, you're right on; Reagen had the same situation as Bozobama, but he actually got so much accomplished because he knew how to work WITH people, not AGAINST them, as Bozobama has done, wanting to ram his things down other people's throats, as he did with Bozobamacare, a socialist piece of crap that more people dislike as they hear as see more of it.
When one is dying, you just wish for the best and no more hate and strife.
Obama has spent/borrowed more in 3.5 years than Bush did in 8. You blame the wars? Why are we still IN wars?
The current deficit is in the danger zone, as well as the GDP to Debt Ratio. We are heading to be like Greece and Spain.
You Obama supporters can downplay the debtclock all you want, you obviously don't know how to interpret it. We most certainly are at the fiscal cliff. Obama's crazy spending has done NOTHING to improve the economy, in fact its a 1000x worse than when Bush left.
America can not continue on Obama's fiscal path. Bankruptcy will be as early as 2015.
We're not borrowing to pay for Medicare. It's fully funded by payroll taxes, and has even built up a trust fund. Same goes for Social Security.
What we are borrowing money and going deep in debt for, is military spending, 2 wars, corporate subsidies, NASA and other research programs, infrastructure maintenance, welfare and other government functions. What has made the problem bigger is a refusal to cut un-necessary and wasteful spending (corporate subsidies and un-needed military supplies), and a refusal to raise taxes for necessary government functions, like the war effort (every War President before Bush Jr. raised taxes to pay for the war, and people were willing to pay those taxes to support the war effort)
Conservatives are also eager to spend money on things that benefit them, but are not willing to pay the taxes that pay for them. They want a powerful military to protect them, they want good roads, they want the infrastructure and government actions that boost their businesses and makes them money, but they do not want to pay the taxes necessary to fund that.
Even if we eliminated all welfare, education, and research programs, we'd still be running deficits - and the results of that elimination would be devastating, not just to the poor, but to the entire nation, putting us well behind nations willing to spend on education and research.
Not voting is the same as being apathetic and not caring. "They" are not afraid of the apathetic or the non-voters. Now, you could vote for a 3rd party candidate, but unless those other "3rd" parties get a substantial number of votes they are unlikely to notice and won't be afraid.
Kelly-Independent - I have a news flash for you. The day AARP came out in support of "Obamacare" thousands of seniors (including yours truly) cancelled our memberships in that organization. We all know that U.S. health care needs reform, but PPACA is not the answer. More people need to actually sit down and read the bill and stop relying on politicians for explanations - most of them have never read it either! Besides that, most politicians on both sides of the aisle lie.
A political parody song written by Bruce-1628250, to the tune of "If You're Happy And You Know It"
You take that up with the hypocritical RepubliCONS.
All the first two years of his presidency, the President practically bent over backwards to calm the temper tantrums of the spoiled toddler right even angering his own base to please them. Ideas from the left AND THE RIGHT were put in the healthcare bill and they STILL won't cooperate with him. Only destroy him. McConnell made that perfectly clear.
With the direction from their sesame street muppet by day/ Führer by night Heil Grover Norquist, they pledge to go against close to EVERYTHING Obama was for, right down to policies their flip flopping selves believed in. Their last flip flopping Presidential nominee even declared after the healthcare passage the RepubliCONs would no longer compromise with him and Democrats for the remainder of that year. They're extending that to this day.
Sorry but that's only going to happen in theory. The time for compromising is over. He only has 4 (maybe 8 you just never know) years to clean the diarrhea left BEFORE him only to now work through the growing diarrhea controlling the house. Obama woke up after the "shellacking" in the Midterm. They started a war and he's going to finish it. (we all know he excels in doing just that)
I would like to hear ONE FACT out of Obama's mouth as to how the "Ryan Plan" would affect seniors presently on Social Security and Medicare or how it will effect those 55 and older. And please, Mr. Obama, tell me how this $6,400.00 figure is computed. Stop spouting it out tell me how you are computing it. I think that is fair don't you? Do you really mean to tell the seniors that if "Ryan Plan" goes through that seniors will have to stroke an extra check for $6,400.00 each year? Why are you trying to scare seniors with such an absurd implication (or "representation" - I'm not sure which)
Campaign, but do it on the truth.
Gil-2872519
I would like to hear ONE FACT out of Obama's mouth as to how the "Ryan Plan" would affect seniors presently on Social Security and Medicare or how it will effect those 55 and older
Gil, I would like to know why I, at age 49 (who has paid into the system for the last 30+ years) should continue to fund Medicare for those over 55 while I am going to get a voucher? If the God- like Ryan and the GOP has a "serious" and "bold" plan, they should man up and own it. They should apply it to all instead of trying to drive yet another wedge between Americans.
I know someone who schedules tests for a doctor, who admits they will be out of a job when Obamacare takes effect, because doctors will have to go through a panel of 15 political people to get permission to treat their patience's. That tells me Obama will curb spending by killing off the really sick, old or young. Like Marxists thinks if you can't work you are expendable.
Thank you for providing clarity. Our right to affordable health care is about human beings, not dollars and cents.
Wishing you all the best. :)
obama's raising taxes on every person who won't be able to afford healthcare (except on medicade). he thinks we're not paying our fair share. maybe in the bush era when the economy was going well but now there's no way for many.
vote nobama 2012
tired of the new broke
PME @ 1.74 Because Medicare will be broke (bankrupt) by the time you get there, unless, of course, you want to pay more in taxes to sustain it which I doubt you can afford.
BTW: You, like many others, who comment here, object to a voucher system. I challenge you, as well as the others, to explain to me comprehensively, how the voucher system will work. It should be easy unless you, and the others, are simply relying upon opposing rhetoric. That is why I asked Obama for a computation as to how he gets his $6,400.00 for every senior citizen. I do not believe in rhetoric - give me the facts.
PME @ 1.74 Because Medicare will be broke (bankrupt) by the time you get there, unless, of course, you want to pay more in taxes to sustain it which I doubt you can afford.
Gil, that doesn't answer my question. I want to know why those over 55 are anymore entitled than those below 55 to get traditional Medicare. If the GOP wants to change the traditional model they should do it for all.
As for the voucher system, you can read all about it here.
""
For purposes of this analysis, CBO assumed that all individuals projected to enroll in Medicare would use the proposed voucher. Voucher recipients would probably have to purchase less extensive coverage or pay higher premiums than they would under current law, for two reasons. First, most of the savings for Medicare under the proposal stem from reducing the amounts that the federal government would pay for enrollees on a per capita basis, relative to the projections under current law. Second, future beneficiaries would probably face higher premiums in the private market for a package of benefits similar to that currently provided by Medicare. (For additional discussion of these issues, see CBO’s January 2010 letter to Congressman Ryan about his “Roadmap” proposal.)
You mean socialist programs like public education, public roads, the U.S. military, the FCC and the USDA?
The U.S. system is a mixed economy, involving private economic freedom mixed with government regulation of markets.
We can disagree about the mix, but the discussion should be carried out rationally. We ALL benefit from a strong, vibrant middle class.
That is NOT correct. The penalty for not having health insurance will be levied ONLY on those who can afford to buy it but do not, those who leech off the system. I'd think conservatives would love that!
If you cannot afford to buy health insurance, you will have the option of buying subsidized health insurance.
Just got into it with some right wing nut cases in the family after I had to listen to attack after attack on Obama. I had told my wife I would bite my tongue, but I finally had enough when one relative sang the praises of the B----! governor of Arizona. Also, how the 40 % drop in taxes for the rich in the Ryan was a reward for job creators. Da! What jobs? The top 1% has promised to do nothing until Obama is out. Trickle down bush economics again, but with a new package. Didn't it get us into this mess to begin with, now more of the same. Reward the rich! Hurt the poor! No thanks! Obama/ Biden!
I received an excellent education from our public schools, thank you very much. It was good enough to get me into a top private university and a top private graduate school. Do not all Americans deserve that opportunity? How else can we remain competitive in a global economy?
Yes indeed, we have massive infrastructure failures. The Ryan budget provides ZERO dollars to improve infrastructure.
No one is complaining about the military? What planet are you posting from?
Try living in a country where the food supply and the media are completely unregulated, and then come back and laugh at the USDA and the FCC.
PME @ 1.84:
#1: There has to be a cut-off point for transition. Maybe you want 49 not 55 and maybe I wanted to play first base instead of left field. The point is that transition and some discrimination necessary.
#2: You failed to explain your knowledge of the voucher system. You cited a very equivocal potion of a note from the CBO. Let's see:
"For purposes of this analysis, CBO assumed that all individuals projected to enroll in Medicare would use the proposed voucher." That is absurd because: Read on: Voucher recipients would probably have to purchase less extensive coverage or pay higher premiums than they would under the current law. (Why would anyone on Medicare or eligible for it opt to pay more?) So that can only apply to those not presently on Medicare or eligible for it because they are 55 or older. It is obviously a projection 10 years down the road when Medicare will be bankrupt anyway.
Your quote does not indicate that it is a 10 year future prediction. Nor does your quote indicate as to how much you will pay in increased taxes if Medicare remains and it would be a Hell of a lot. As I previously said, you will not be able to afford it. Will you not accept the fact that you have to bite the bullet, sometime?
I am on Medicare, I believe in the program, but I also face the fact that it will not be here for my children or grandchildren. Nor will Social Security. I have posted many comments as to why the two programs are broke, so I will not spewing blame now, but they must be revamped. Maybe the voucher system (which you still do not seem to understand) is not the best, but a transition must be made. I regret your age, but I was not allowed to drink until 21.
Kannin and miklkit... Thank you both for the lists of famous people and their supposed political leanings, it is nice to know the company you keep, who is on your side, go to bed with... Buying elections is a universal tradition but perfect here in good old USA. The Republicans this past several years have advanced the practice to a high art form.
1st... the Supreme court made it possible that pallet loads of money could be dumped into races.
2nd... and I have to begrudgingly admire this, they plotted 4 years ago to take over state houses during the midterm elections and to use that power to cull the democratic herd with various voter suppression techniques. Not only that, they picked and chose the states where this would be most effective, swing states so to speak. Here in the Northeast, we can still go about our business as usual, show up at the voting booth and give our address and name and do our constitutional duty.
3rd... Set up a massive and sophisticated propaganda network. Tell a lie often enough and it begins to ring true. The real masters of technique were the fascists of WWII and I find it jaw dropping, a big WOW moment, that the party of Lincoln and Eisenhower is embracing those tactics. Remember propaganda is the art of telling half truths. It is sort of natural to fall into that trap, but from this perspective Romney, Ryan and Repubs have dived in with shovels.
Sac up and pay more taxes for the good of the country. Quit your whining. 5% more and all funding problems disappear.
The GOP hasn't changed since the Gilded Age - more privileges for the rich, even after the Great Depression and the Great Recession which were both caused by such policies of the GOP.
If you don't change, you lose raison d'être (reason for existence).
Corzine,
I just read through this whole list of posts, including yours that have been collapsed (I hate that btw, doesn't serve any purpose).
I can't believe how full of vitriol you are. Government isn't the enemy. Government is US. We own it. WE should want it to WORK. I want my tax dollars to WORK. When government doesn't work, it's usually easy to see why: it's been undermined. See, for example the POST Office. the only reason it's in trouble is because of Pension requirements forced on them that NO ONE else has to suffer, public or private. They AREN'T allowed to operate like a business--they can't raise postage without congressional approval, and they HAVE to serve even the most remote locations that are completely unprofitable ($0.45 to Nome Alaska).
What other government functions are there?....hmmmm.....
The US Military is the best run GOVERNMENT institution the world have ever known.
Medicare, another well run GOVERNMENT program, operates with a 4% overhead. ACA had to make 20% overhead a LAW for private insurers to be that much less efficient.
Social Security has been insuring the retirement dignity of American Seniors and Disabled for 75 years. For the last 30, the SS Trust Fund has been floating the General Fund with Trillions of dollars. ALL from people making less than $110,000 a year.
So your comment that the top 10% pay ALL the taxes is just crap and you know it, and government can run just as well as private enterprise when they are allowed to run without meddling from politicians.
I would like to know where is the outrage of the so called "church" in America who knows what Romney/Ryan policies will do for the poor, sick and elderly of this country?..If they claim to be the Christians they are, then they would speak out against this travesty...If Jesus was on this earth, do you think he would throw these people under the bus as the republicons are trying to do?...?All of these evangelical preachers on tv sure like to talk about what Obama has done or not done, but do why don't they talk about the fact that if Romney is elected, it will cause millions of people to be without insurance, a lot of children will go without food or healthcare, the elderly will die because they couldn't pay these high premiums,etc..Proverbs 22 vs 16 states.."He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth, and he who give gifts to the rich-both will come to poverty"...Sounds like Romney/Ryan to me....
Gil,
I think the complaint was about taking the pain away from seniors and near-seniors (who wants to piss off that demographic?).
If they really meant what they say, they would make the conversion for everybody, starting just a few years away. Everybody goes on a voucher, starting in 2015. That would be fair; it wouldn't pit the old against the young; it would save more money, sooner; and it would be DEAD ON ARRIVAL.
Obama had the cajones to make his plan apply to everybody as soon as it was practical to implement (in 4 years after passage). The Ryan ripoff hopes your retirement is far enough away that you're not paying attention. I'm 45, and believe me, I'm paying attention.
Kannin, it is not a lack of republican support that has stifled Obama's attempts, it is outright and blatant obstruction! Remember, the Republicans stated #1 priority is to make sure that Obama is a 1 term president. One would have thought that after the mess the last president had made their #1 priority would have been to help straighten the country out. Remember, 1% of the country controls the wealth. They also think the other 99% are stupid. Unfortunately they are correct about approximately 48%.
SmBusOwner, that is because they don't think today's seniors care about their children.
Food for thought:
One of the great aspects of a mixed economic system, where private business is combined with government regulation, is that future generations must earn their economic success through education and hard work. America is a meritocracy. We don't have to get our leadership from the trust fund ranks of people like Mitt Romney. We have had presidents from impoverished backgrounds. You won't find that kind of opportunity everywhere else in the world.
SmBus: This country (our country) guaranteed a fixed retirement income through FICA (Federal Insurance Contributions Act), Social Security, which we, as seniors paid into all of our working lives, many of us for 45 years or more. We relied on that to help fund our retirement. If you take that away you will truly be pushing grandma over the cliff.
You cannot cut these people off. They are on fixed incomes and cannot sustain an economic blow. In the last three years there has been only one "cost of living" increase despite spiralling food costs. Any plan that effects seniors who rely on Social Security is unconscionable.
I'm am sorry that there must be a cut-off point, but, I didn't create the situation and you did not either, but "bite the bullet". You, at 45 have plenty of time to prepare - we seniors do not have any.
I will no longer argue over who is responsible for the disaster of Social Security -- go to Wikipedia.
JonCorzine: Yep, the USPS is at 75% but guess who robbed it dry of all its cash (hint: same people who robbed Social Security) so the USPS is paying, in advance, retirement benefits for those who have yet to be born. (Sounds like a budget killer to me) The way it was done is far more complicated than the raid on Social Security, and difficult to understand. I'm not going to try to explain it here but do a bit of research on the Internet (Wikipedia, etc.) and you will find it. I'll not here to pass blame. I'll just say that the SS and the USPS catastrophes were not caused by by the Republicans.
Any historian here who wants to dispute that?
The democrats only want to pass blame and pass the buck and kick the can down the road. SS and Medicare are heading for broke. Johnson first raided SS to fund Vietnam, Clinton also dipped his hands in it to 'balance' the budget so his so-called budget 'surplus' was actually yet another raid on Social Security. Obamacare will only exacerbate a bad situation, giving unelected bureaucrats control over your medical needs.
Obama doesn't explain, he demogogues. He attacks, tosses out specious numbers and relys on his ignorant supporters to be so lazy that they never research, instead, they mouth what he says.
As to the Post Office, blame deficit neutral and Bush for part of that. The treasury used that 'pensions overpayments' to keep the deficit numbers lower than they are. If the Treasury were to reimburse the Post Office our deficit would suddenly jump many, many billions.
Gil, I was talking about Medicare
....so you're saying that Ryan's plan for seniors if implemented now would be "cutting them off"????
If it's going to COST SENIORS MORE (shock!) then they should be saying THAT! Otherwise, it's a TRICK that those of us under 55 are going to have to pay for.
Corzine, if you think government is any less efficient than private businesses, you've never had a job at a big company. Large businesses, like any large organization, are plenty inefficient too. Government doesn't have a corner on inefficiency.
That said, there are government operations that are plenty efficient. The Armed Forces and Medcare operate very efficiently. I'd even say the Post office does some pretty efficient things. $0.45 to mail a letter ANYwhere in the country in 1-3 days? Fedex and UPS cost $10 to do that.
SmBus: @ 1.105: I was under 65 once !! What is your point? Do not put words in my mouth -- I never said the "Ryan Plan" would cut off seniors. Go back and read !! I said "YOU" a generalized "you" cannot cut these people off. Can you not read?
Are you, at 45, claiming a "right" to presently retire with SS and medicare. Maybe you would like to live in the Bahamas at taxpayer expense. Sorry but I still believe that in this country you have to earn what you get. SS and Medicare are not entitlements, we paid for them. You want a free lunch for another 20 years -- not from my hand !! Both SS and Medicare are doomed go to Wikipedia and maybe you will find out why. Live in your dream world. When you wake up maybe you will see reality.
Previously your comments made some.sense, but now I question how many beers you have had.
I will debate with you no longer.
Gil,
In a nutshell, you said you can't just cut off current retirees because they count on that income (or medical benefits) currently. Fine. But "cut off" certainly implies there is a cut. Otherwise, what's the difference? If there is no cut, there is no savings, why change it?
If the voucher plan was revenue neutral in year one, paying for 100% of your care, then decreasing over time, how is that different from giving THAT system to the rest of us 10 or 20 years from now? It's just ripping ME off. Like I said, if it's so great, why not implement it right away? Oh, I know, because you and every other person in retirement or close to it would SCREAM YOUR HEAD OFF AGAINST IT (like you did when I suggested it apply to you).
Of course I can't retire right away, and I DO want my Medicare and Social Security, otherwise, why would I bother talking about it here? As you paid during your working career, so am I paying, and I want the BENEFIT of the INSURANCE I am paying for.
SmBus: Last comment. So the government has been stealing your money for years, taking it and putting it into SS and Medicare where you will never see it again. History, helps us predict what may come, but it does not change present facts. The system is broken. I take it that you now support the Ryan Plan but want everyone (even those who have paid a Hell of a lot more into Medicare than you) to buy vouchers? How about a refund? Think about it. You now want the elderly to subsidize you.
No, they better not have been stealing my money. You're getting your SS money aren't you? I want my money back too, and the rest of the post-boomers are going to want theirs too. I'm sure as $hit not going to sit here and pay my whole life and get stuck with "nothing". That's not going to happen. I don't want to keep paying Medicare taxes, then get a voucher either. So no, I don't approve of the Ryan Medicare Plan either. If it's a good plan, and politically viable, then it should be implemented to the whole population as soon as possible. The sad truth is that it's not viable at all, especially if you apply it to the 1/3 of the poplulation already getting or soon to get the benefits.
As I've siad before in other posts, the solution to SS is easy, you allow the Trust Fund to borrow money, not just lend it.
For 30 years (50 by the time it approaches zero), the Trust Fund has been lending the General Fund money. In other words, people who make less than $110K a year in present dollars, have been floating regular government spending. I think the General Fund can just return the favor over the subsequent 30 or 50 years. By then the population bubble of boomers will be long gone and we can go back to the DESIGNED pay-as-you-go approach. DONE.
No don't say "that's more bankrupt spending" because it isn't. It's promised INSURANCE we already paid for (OVER paid for). The Gen Fund will be paying $200B (Present value) a year to the Trust fund the year before it expires. What heappens then? A $200B windfall to the GF while I get a 25% cut?? That's not right. Just let the TF be a bank, AND have a line of credit from the GF. Why should the GF be the only one that benefits from that lending arrangement? One Vote: let the Trust Fund borrow as well as lend. SOLVED. No cuts to anyone, let demographics take care of it over the following 50 years.
The sky is not falling. Those of us 10 or 20 or 30 years away from retirement will be getting our money back too.
SmBus: I suggest you grab your rifle and join a militia.
@Gil-2872519
SmBus said the sky is NOT falling. Are you stupid, or just allowed yourself to be polarized to stupid?
kaybee--- That is NOT correct. The penalty for not having health insurance will be levied ONLY on those who can afford to buy it but do not, those who leech off the system. I'd think conservatives would love that!
If you cannot afford to buy health insurance, you will have the option of buying subsidized health insurance
if one cannot afford to buy health ins then how would they buy sub health ins? and what's thier other option? and they will not be taxed?
rocky: @ 1.111 My comment @ 1.110 was directed at the first two sentences (1st three lines) of the SmBus comment @ 1.109. If you could not figure that out you are either stupid or brain dead.
dave---
i would love LOVE to have the mess our last pres gave us. those years were the best mess i've ever been in. hell i would even be able to afford obamacare in that mess. this is obamas mess and i would'nt wish it on anybody even you dems who love it for no reason.
If that weren't just another Obama lie, he would support replacing the income tax with some sort of a Consumption tax. That's the only way to force the rich to pay their fair share. No more loopholes! You want a jet? Fine, buy it, and pay $1 million tax on it. You want a bottle of cheap booze? Fine, buy it, and pay $1 tax on it.
Plus, you get rid of the IRS - a bureaucracy that costs us $12 billion a year. You save 6.1 billion hours of unproductive time that taxpayers and businesses spend on IRS paperwork each year. Additionally, a person won't be able to be paid “under the table” and not pay taxes. Even drug dealers will have to pay their fair share.
Paul Ryan supports replacing the income tax with a consumption tax.
And yet, Obama and our so-called "representatives" refuse to even discuss such a change.
Why?
Isn't it obvious?
Because the loopholes in the current tax code are a big part of the "payback" that politicians provide to their biggest supporters.
he would support replacing the income tax with some sort of a Consumption tax. That's the only way to force the rich to pay their fair share.
Kannin - Good point, but it wouldn't work. Consumption taxes by themselves are to unpredictable. The government couldn't rely on, "what if" a rich guy buys a boat this year, or paying for things such as defense based on whether little johnny's parents buys him a new bicycle.
O&Joe 2012
good post....obozo is corrupt to the core......
And Romney/Ryan is running on family values pushing granny off of a cliff.
Next thing you know the republicans will be running on family values with a ticket that looks like Gingrich/Sandusky.
Obama/Biden 2012
Kannin,
Hello my friend.
I seem to recall your prediction that the issue of Mitt's taxes likely would fade from public view within a week. That was two weeks ago. Oh well...
Any predictions regarding Ron Paul's delegation at the Republican convention? Passive and compliant? Stifled and frustrated?
That first-ballot Romney loyalty oath business seemed a little un-American, no?
Actually I like the idea of a consumption tax under two conditions.
1 - basic food isn't taxed (ice cream, chips, beer, etc. - yes; bread, milk, vegetables, fruit, meat, etc. - no)
2 - investment income is taxed also. Why? Because investment money is cash that is essentially a wager that is put down with an expectation of but not a guarantee for positive cash returns. Money that can afford to be gambled with can afford to be taxed. With investment income being taxed it woould also provide a great deal of the stability that GT properly stated was needed.
There could also be a sliding scale on the consumption tax based on the nature of the item being bought. For instance I think that the tax on machinery absolutely required for business should be less than the tax on a personal lear jet for fun. With the "absolutely required" qualifier in place it keeps someone from arguing that they NEED a personal lear jet instead of taking a business class flight.
Under the same criteria, a primary residence should be taxed less than a secondary one.
Hey, Kannin. Good to see you. I just noticed tonight that I hadn't sent you a friend request yet, so I'll remedy that.
Kannin,
Intelligence: No
Active Imagination: Certainly
While it isn't a bad idea, what is to stop it from being corrupted, much as the current tax code has become corrupted. Sure, automobiles may start with a consumption tax of 10%, but how long will it be before the tax on a Bentley is cut to 5% and the tax on a Corolla is increased to 12%, and on and on it goes. Any tax system put into place will be heavily lobbied by the wealthy to their favor.
The other factor in a consumption tax are taxes on business. Any tax system needs to address those as well, including the major loopholes that benefit them.
Kannin
Politicians love consumption taxes because no one really knows who is paying and just how much. This type not only slows consumption, but it also makes improving your weath class much harder.
You know Kannin, if we just made robbery legal, we could save a ton of money on cops, too.
Mitt Romney talking about tax policy is like a bank robber who knocks over a community bank at the expense of everyone who had their savings there, then says, "You know, it isn't fair I have to spend all this money on guns and ammo and henchmen and getaway cars, just so I can rob your bank. Here's a better idea, you just put all the money out front and I'll take whatever I want. My job gets easier and safer, and you save a ton of money on security guards and vaults. Win-win, right?"
That's basically what he's saying when he asks us to pitty the poor corporations that spend so much time and money hiring people like him to figure out how to avoid paying taxes. He wants to reduce their taxes so there's nothing left to evade.
GT - No more so than income.
Hi MSNBCMFE Good to see you! I guess I underestimated the left-wing capability for monotonous drum-beating.
Although Ron Paul is too idealistic to be a good president, I think a Romney should make him a part of his administration. The hard-nosed pragmatism of Romney, tempered by the uncompromising idealism of Ron Paul to act as the Administration's conscience, could start to repair the mistakes of the past three years without infringing further on individual rights. Unfortunately I get the feeling that they don't like each other.
Loyalty oath? I'm unfamiliar with that ...
Matthew - I agree 100% with your qualifiers.
CubsFan - Thank you; I accept with great pleasure!
RedDevPS - I would never underestimate our politicians' capacity for corruption, but at least a consumption tax starts with a clean slate and a new set of loopholes would come in for public scrutiny.
Kannin - I disagree with your statement that Rep. Paul would not further infringe on indivdual rights. To begin with, Ron Paul advocates immediate repeal of Rowe v. Wade and implementation of a personhood bill. There is no clearer immediate example of infringement. It would be interesting to see him charge God with murder due to the spontaeous miscarriage of a 4 week old fetus. More importantly and far less humorously, I can well believe the atmosphere of fear that a woman would face knowing that SHE would immediately be suspected and potentially investigated for murder if the spontaneous miscarriage occurred.
He advocates against unions under the guise of "right of association" but in reality he is rejecting that right and the ability of organizations to choose how they wish to organize and the fact that organizations have costs required to protect and represent the members. By suggesting that people take advantage of the hard fought protections won by unions and not providing any contribution, Ron Paul is effectively advocating that people have the right to freeload off of the work and efforts of others.
His poistion to abolish Birthright citizenship is completely against the Constitution (and I woud suggest that birth is where individual rights actually start). His drive to end Welfare would place direct de facto fiscal limitations on personal and individual rights.
FYI - this information on his positions is drawn directly from his website.
Matthew - If all those things are true (and you have been accurate in the past) I will re-think my opinion of Ron Paul. :-(
Check out his campaign website, Kannin. He has a tab for "issues."
RedDevPS - there is nothing in place that can keep any idea from eventually being corrupted by mankind. All you have to do is look as Westboro Baptist and how they advocate hate to see the truth of that.People (and yes, politicians are people) are inherently flawed and many can be bought off with either money or the illusion of power.
The best we can work for is to identify things that CAN be good and work for them to appropriately benefit all of us. Granted this is a humanist perspective, but society consists of us, our families, and our friends. They need and deserve the best we can give.
DB Akron, I'd suggest we already have taxes on things we buy. This tax actually varies from state to state and from jurisdiction to jurisdiction (think hotel room taxes/charges or restaurant meals for example). These charges haven't seemed to be the cause of slowing of consumption.
Also, the tax itself, if appropriately applied, could have no additional fiscal impact on low-to-moderate income households. It could be a true progressive tax system rather than a regressive one that has an inequitable income impact on the poor (the way a flat tax would) if specfic things like basic food items were excluded.
I would have thought we would be tired of all that "fair share" BS by now. Obama prattles on employing the same inane rhetoric day after day hoping that "we the people" are too clueless and vacant to see through his lies.
This "fair share" rhetoric always ignores the fact that the majority of all tax income comes from a tiny portion of society. For example, the top 5% of wage earners pay more in taxes than the other 95% combined, a number made all the more astounding when one considers that half the population pays nothing. In plain English, it is these top wage earners that are the ones financing all the entitlements society's dregs are receiving.
All you junior socialists out in internet land shouldn't be too critical of the rich folks because it is they who are financing your entitlement lifestyle.
Since so many of our consumer goods are imported, a consumption tax would be viewed as essentially a "tariff," engendering retaliatory tariffs/taxes against U.S. exports...i.e. it's anti-free trade.
In turn, that would also run against what is probably the best way to escape the demise of the middle class - rebuilding our manufacturing sector to produce high tech-high value added exports, to run the trade surpluses necessary to fund our social programs, and broaden our tax base.
Yeah Wet Willy, we all know the top income earners are paying most the taxes.
The problem is they are NOT the ones doing most the heavy lifting. Many of those top income persons inheritated the money. Make it off Capital gains like Romney. Or they invested in market schemes that cost all of us 401 profits, while they got rich. Or they invested in jobs overseas that have had dire consequences here.
So who is really paying their fair share? The poor do pay lots of taxes. Look at your phone bill sometime. Look at your utility bill sometime. Look at your internet bill sometime. To say half the population pays nothing is simple not true. The economy is reliant on consumption of products and services. How many cars can one rich person own. Everyone needs an automobile. The true movers of the economy are those you claim, pay no taxes. They may pay no federal taxes, but they are the consumers who keep our economy moving. Not the rich.
From the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities:
Isn't this the topic folks?
From NPR:
Ryan's Taxes Show Gap Between Romney And The Not-So-Rich
Compared to the median American family, Ryan is wealthy, with a total income of $215,000 in 2010 and $323,000 last year. Compared to Romney, though, he is poor. Despite this, Ryan's effective federal tax rates exceed the 13.9 percent Romney paid in 2010, and the 15.4 percent Romney estimates he will pay in 2011 when his return is finalized.
Romney has tried to explain that his rate is a result of his income deriving from investments rather than wages. But to the extent that it illustrates how skewed the tax code has become in favor of "unearned" income versus "earned" income, the explanation may play right into the hands of President Obama and Democrats, who have been arguing that the wealthiest should have to pay more.
A major — although, perhaps not widely understood — result of the 2003 tax cuts was to lower the maximum tax rate on capital gains and qualified dividends to 15 percent. This category makes up the lion's share of income for the richest Americans.
And because that category is already exempt from Social Security and Medicare taxes, middle-class Americans who make their livings from a job with a paycheck typically pay a higher percentage in federal taxes than those who live on investment income. Social Security and Medicare taxes total about 15 percent, and that's before any federal income tax is added.
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And those, folks, are the facts the GOP hope you don't remember come November.
Instead of talking about cutting Medicare, why aren't we talking about making the rich help pay for it?
Julkie -- The rich are having to help pay for Medicare through ACA, and this is why Romney/Ryan not only want to privatize Medicare, they also want to repeal ACA, and they want to cut Medicaid too. They want to end any obligation to any health care program so they can pay zero taxes. Social Security would be next on the chopping block.
Romney with his historical record wealth, and refusal to release his tax returns because he knows he games the system and it won't look good -- Romney who then proposes tax and economic policies that obviously would benefit him even more is making fairness the debate. Romney is the Poster Boy for the 1% and how the system is rigged in their favor.
"We want this debate. We need this debate. And we will win this debate." Obama/Biden - 2012!
These guys remind me of gangster Johnny Rocco (Edward G. Robinson) talking to Frank McCloud (Humphrey Bogart) in "Key Largo":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWa6vsXOKAU
How can one believe anything that the President says? For example, it was the President who very emphatically promised to unconditionally close GITMO within one year of his becoming President. Well GITMO is still open. It was the President who said that the stimulus would solve our nation's unemployment problems. It was the President who promised that all health care bill related proceedings would be shown on CSPAN and that the would go over the health care bill, "line by line" with my congressman and any other law maker in Washington who requested it. It was the President who said that the health care law would lower my health care premiums when in reality the opposite has happened. It was the President who said that jobs were his number one prioriety. It was the President who said that deficit spending was bad and promised to cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term. Well 2012 is the end of the President's first term. To keep his promise the 2012 federal deficit must not exceed 229.27 billion dollars and that is not happening. Instead of speculating what the other guys might do the President should be telling the people what he is going to do. I want the President to tell the people what he is going to do to keep his promise on the deficit. I want the President to go over the health care bill. "line by line", with my congressman on CSPAN as promised. I want the President to provide a detailed plan for paying off the national debt. The tax payers have a right to know how much all of this federal borrowing is going to end up costing them. What happened to hope and change Mr. President?
watch obamas america 22016 and see what this snakes plan is,obama has lied ,cheated and stoled all along he stoled 716 trillion from madicare,he cares so muck about the common man his brother lives in a hut ,his sister sells coal to get by and you think he cares about you?all you wet backs sign right up and be stabed in the back,the buesses will be comeing for you
It's been stonewalled out of existence by a bunch of Teathugs whose only goal is to make sure Mr. President gets out of their way.
The Democrats have had a total of 8 weeks since Obama was elected that they could vote a bill through Congress without dealing with the Teathug extortionists. In every other period, they lacked 60 votes in the Senate due to a) Ted Kennedy's illness and death; b) Robert Byrd's illness and death or c) too many GOP obstructionists in the chamber.
Despite those odds, they managed to enact the Affordable Care Act, the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, the Recovery Act, the Student Aid and Fiscal Responsibility Act, the expansion of health care for children, and Wall Street reform. Not bad - and most of these would have been even better if the GOP hadn't screwed things up.
Before you start slavering over how much better the GOP would have done, you might want to look at PolitiFact's ranking of Obama's promises kept vs. the GOP leadership's.
Obama has 37% "promises kept" and 14% "compromise" (with 22% "in the works") to the GOP's 19% "promises kept" and 2% "compromise" (with 19% "in the works").
obama---he asserted that under Ryan's budget, Romney would pay less than 1 percent in taxes.
put your money where your mouth is. back your statement up with explaination. if your gonna lie at least make it believeable. what idiots believe your lies?
never mind.
obama, your economy cannot support your affordable healthcare and niether can medicare. what do you not understand?
vote nobama 2012
tired of the new broke
What Obama said is what Republicans have been saying. Where is the problem? .... Oh yeah, he's half black and so not really an American and so should leave the dumb talk to old white guys.
I'm reposting this list from a NewsVine commentator that humorously calls himself, "Grover Dorkquist."
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What has the GOP/Tea Baggers done to help the economy and increase employment?
1. Birth control legislation
2. Tired worn-out attempts about the President's birth certificate and transcripts
3. Extend the Bush tax cuts
4. Create a fictitious "war on religion" to stonewall Obama's Healthcare efforts
5. Destroy the unions by using overworked GOP catchphrases: Socialism, Marxism, Saul Alinsky
6. Destroy the environment by using the "job creation" smokescreen
7. Try to repeal Affordable Health Care so it doesn't cut into their insurance company cronies' profits
8. Punish women for being raped
9. Attempt to repeal the Dodd-Frank Act so Wall Street can steal from the American people again
10. Take away food stamps from the elderly and poor
#2.7 - Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:58 PM PDT
wtf? dems own the war on religion. maybe ya'll didn't notice but no one cares, yet you dems went on and on for months about it. and obama picked the fight with catholics. and no one took food stamps away from poor and elderly. you need to educate yourself. until then i pray you don't vote. hopefully you don't have an id.
you dems so much deserve obama and what you get. 4 more yrs of this? in a perfect world we would shoot off to another
gallaxyfar far away problem solved. heaven....it was the President who very emphatically promised to unconditionally close GITMO within one year of his becoming President. Well GITMO is still open.
And why is it still open?
from the Miami Herald:
Congress has used its spending oversight authority both to forbid the White House from financing trials of Guantánamo captives on U.S. soil and to block the acquisition of a state prison in Illinois to hold captives currently held in Cuba who would not be put on trial — a sort of Guantánamo North.
The latest defense bill adopted by Congress moved to mandate military detention for most future al Qaida cases.
Legislation passed since Obama took office has created a series of roadblocks that mean that only a federal court order or a national security waiver issued by Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta could trump Congress and permit the release of a detainee to another country.
Defense Department General Counsel Jeh Johnson, the Pentagon’s top lawyer, believes that Congress crafted the transfer waivers a year ago in such a way that Panetta (and Robert Gates before him) would be ill-advised to sign them. (In essence, the Secretary of Defense is supposed to guarantee that the detainee would never in the future engage in violence against any American citizen or U.S. interest.)
... the Defense Intelligence Agency concluded that at least a fourth of the detainees the United States has released from Guantánamo were confirmed or suspected of later engaging in terrorism or insurgent activity. Opponents of closing Guantánamo immediately seized on these figures. ...most of those on the recidivist list were transferred before Obama took office, when the Bush-era Pentagon approved some 500 releases.
If you have issues with Gitmo, talk to the obstructionist Republicans in Congress.
How funny that the dems and Obama are talking about cuts to medicare by Romney and Ryan yet it was Obama who took 716 billion from medicare to pay for Obamacare and now a new report by economists warns that these cuts will increase mortality rates among seniors. The new IPAB will decide which procedure is too costly and which aren't. Can you say Death Panels.
More Republican BS...
the ACA cuts many of the payments Medicare makes in its fee-for-service system to hospitals, nurses, and other health-care providers. (Doctors would not be affected by this payment squeeze.) According to CBO, over the 10-year period it measured, Medicare payments for hospital services would go down by $260 billion, for instance. Payments for skilled nursing services would go down by $39 billion and for home health services by $33 billion.
The other big category of ACA Medicare reductions is aimed at Medicare Advantage, a sub-section of Medicare plans run by private insurers. Medicare Advantage began as a pilot program under President George W. Bush, who pushed it as a means to save money by pitting private insurers against each other in a competition to cover Medicare beneficiaries.
This approach has not worked out as intended. Currently Medicare Advantage plans cost the government more on a per-person basis than traditional fee-for-service Medicare.
“The Affordable Care Act gives those private plans a haircut and tethers reimbursement levels to the quality of care administered, and patient satisfaction,” writes Washington Post Wonkblog writer Sarah Kliff in her analysis of the $716 billion reductions.
and Ryan's plan will restore this, right? Nope! Ryan's plan counts on those same savings - it is written into his plan. But they will not be used to pay for any health care. No, they will be used to finance a whole new round of tax cuts.
As for Death Panels... don't we have effective death panels now? After all, the private insurers decide every day which procedures they will pay for and which they will not. If they decide they will not pay for a procedure and you need it to stay alive, you are out of luck! No appeals, no recourse. Death panels indeed!
A comsumption tax would hit the poor and middle class who use their descretionary income for food and other necessary items for survival. The rich and ultra-rich don't spend as much percentage-wise as the poor and middle class do for those items.
Exactly which proposed GOP law suggests lowering the taxes on those making over $250K a year? Don't know? Because IT DOESN'T EXIST. Obama has nothing to run on in his own record and is resorting to "politics as usual" Chicago Style. Someone give me the H.R. or other bill # in thomas.gov if you disagree so we can all read it together.
There's another headline missing from
msnbc.com...er...nbcnews.com. The fact that Obama's claims about medicare cuts are based on a 2011 version of the bill that no longer exists in that form. Seniors will be able to opt to stay in the current Medicare system if they wish at no additional cost. Those of you who supported the ACA because "you won't have to give up the current insurance" should be familiar with how "fair" this is.Shall we compare your lifestyle and income to the guy living under a bridge downtown and figure out how you can pay more to overcome the lack of taxes from him?
I guess Obama and his cronies just aren't concerned with facts anymore? I guess not - when everything Obama says is a lie why would anybody be surprised with an ignorant comment such as this. I'll tell you why - because most Democrat voters are too busy to turn off Oprah or The People's Court long enough to even CHECK out what Obama is saying and confirm there is some truth to it? Amazing at the incompetence and laziness of the Democrat voter to not even TRY to confirm what they are being told? Just repeat it and ASSUME it is true? Pathetic Democrat voters. Simply pathetic.
All I can gather from that is, even when Democrats are in control of all 3 houses - followed by all but 1/2 of 1/3 of gov't for 20 months, they are incapable of passing bills or working across the aisles. Sounds like incompetence to me. Clinton was able to get things done for 6 yrs even with the entire congress being under Republican control and the economy was booming.
But if you're dead set on still voting Democrat, at least vote the current idiots out and replace them.
We have tried this trickle down theory for about 30 years, and I think it is safe to say that the only people that have benefited are those at the very top, everybody else has lost ground. My question is just how long does it take for this trickle down to work, when is less finally going to turn into more for the nation. Please are there any math majors out there that can explain to me at what point subtraction turns into addition. Truth is more for them is just more for them, it will never turn into more for you. Less is just less it never magically turns into more, less wages, less benefits, less taxes, less regulations, this never turns into more jobs, more education, more savings, less is just less, and subtraction never turns into addition.
Forrest,
Think we will have our annual Labor Day Storm this year? Really been quiet since June.
Bush 41 called it "voodoo economics" until senile old man reagan picked him as running mate.
My question is just how long does it take for this trickle down to work, when is less finally going to turn into more for the nation.
Forrest - When the people stand up and put an end to it. We did it during the great depression, and we're doing it now......
O&Joe 2012
Hi Ya Phine, there a lot of places that could use a good rainstorm, even if it dampens their labor day plans.
@John RN -Bush 41 called it "voodoo economics" and that is exactly what it is, you have to believe in mysterious magical powers to believe that less will somehow turn into more.
Forest Trickle down was a democrat description intended to hide the total effect.
Do you have money, I don't. Does my wife's boss have money? - He doesn't. What he has is a ballooning accounts receivable. It doesn't matter if it is one of his corporate clients, a small business man on an individual. They are struggling to pay bills.
What JFK, Reagan, and Bush did was cut the rates equally across the board. After a few months not only did Average Joe have a little extra to buy things, but the small business started seeing what was owed him coming in and more business. With the extra money in the bank, he was able to add hours that had been cut. Corporations then saw an expanding market and had the money to add production.
That may not work so well this time, because rates are low now. The only high tax is the corporate rate. What isn't at a low point is regulations Regulations that businesses must comply with are now 3 times as many as when Reagan left office in 1989. The costs of the newest ones are much greater than ever in history including the last installment of the ACA hits that must be complied with.
Business is close to crumbling. Democrats are cruel taskmasters. They remind me of the IRS. The IRS only cares that you pay it what it demands. It doesn't matter that if you pay them you are out of business and your employees lose their jobs and won't be contributing to the revenue stream in the future.
So DB, the rich have never been richer, they own a larger percentage of the nations wealth than ever before in our country's history, and at the same time their taxes have never been lower, and they have been this low for 12 years now, so tell me DB what is the glitch, why isn't everything coming up roses as trickle down economics proposes it should be. If it seemed to work for awhile then what happened, how did the wheels come off. Why is it not working DB?
Explain it to me DB, we have more wealthy people paying less taxes than we have ever had, how come this has not made our economy explode with growth and opportunity.
Business only hires for one reason, they have customers to service or sell to, they don't hire because their taxes are low, or because they have a lot of cash on hand. They only have employees to service customers, more customers equals more hiring, less customers equals law offs. It has nothing to do with taxes or anything else.
I think you were on to something when you asked if I had money, yes I do, I have been fortunate to work my tail off, all my life, and still do. That is the only valid point, do people have money to spend, and as long as the push is on to cut wages, cut benefits, cut the taxes that provide those wages and benefits for many people directly and indirectly, the ecomomy will get worse.
Dang, Forrest, why do you have to bring me down? Yes, I agree with you, but, but -- the truth right now is depressing.
GT - #s -- "When the people stand up and put an end to it. We did it during the Great Depression, and we're doing it now..." Oh, how I wish this were so. I think there would have to be more pain before the people seriously take a stand. Not that I wish this, in any way.
I just completed reading "The Grapes of Wrath" again (it's been probably 20 years since I last read it). What amazed me most this last reading is that technology has changed so much over the years and yet human nature has stayed the same. If you don't believe me, spend a weekend reading the book yourself. The same attitudes that John Steinbeck described so eloquently so many years ago can be seen on this vine today. If America takes one more step to the right we will fall off that cliff and be no better than we were when we were in the Great Depression.
You got it Forrest Gump 2.0.
Tinkle upon economics is thinly disguised class warfare. The split from the balance we had before started in the early 1980s and has increased by the decade. Now we the people make less money after adjusting for inflation than we did in 1980, and the aristocracy is making 380% more than they were in 1980.
There is $21-31 Trillion sitting offshore that those billionaires will not ever bring back here. They made it here and then immediately sent it overseas. Kinda like Mitt's IRA that has $100,000,000 in it when it is supposed to be capped at $6,000 a year.
But that is still not enough for them and now the aristocracy wants to turn Medicare into a voucher program that does nothing but give more of our tax money to big corporations while making us pay more for less health care. What a deal!
Be selfish. Vote for you and your family. The Robber Barons already have enough of our money.
O&Joe 2012.
If republicans decimate the social programs they wish to, this country will again look like it did in "The Grapes of Wrath", we figured that out a long time ago the nation needs things like SS, medicare, unemployment insurance, and food-stamps. Nobody wants to tell the truth but there are a heck of a lot of people in America who work and still need those programs to get by. Nine of the top ten welfare states as measured by how much they pay in federal taxes and how much the receive back in federal money are republican states, and I believe virtually every one of those is a right to work for less, and less, and less state. The median income in Texas is $11.20 an hour, I made more than that as a union grocery clerk in 1982, plus full benefits. If they decimate the social programs, nobody will be hurt more than the red states, and business will suffer greatly, because people the that receive those benefits immediatley roll that money right back into the economy by buying food, clothes, and paying their bills. If you transfer that money by way of more tax breaks to the pockets of extremely wealthy people such as Romney they will simply add it to their offshore account, and it does no good for anybody but them. Their proposed policies will not help sustain medicare or SS, and they certainly will not reduce the deficit, because less revenue does not turn into more revenue. The only thing their economic policies do is squeeze out the medium and little guy, and that includes the medium and small businessman, and make a few more billionaires out of millionaires.
DBAkron:
They didn't merely cut tax rates, they did tax reform. They replaced lost revenue due to the cuts by taking away deductions. GWB did tax cuts only. GWB did not replace the lost revenue with anything but false promises.
Reagan raised taxes 11 times after he did his tax reform. He didn't have Grover Norquist telling him what to do. He did the right thing without the help of Grover or Rush or Hannity or Beck, and we did just fine. Right wing lunatic infotainers are destroying our country and you guys continue to be their biggest fans. Morons.
Not only did Reagen raise taxes, but he was the only president to ever grant millions of illegal aliens unconditional amnesty, but they never want to talk about that when they invoke St. Reagan.
The Capitalist Manifesto
The goal of every successful Capitalist is to concentrate the wealth among the most deserving and entitled: the privileged class. The two methods for accomplishing these goals are diametrically opposed: 1) increase the number of consumers in a market and maximize their buying power by creating higher paying positions for the proletariat, providing benefits and security to maximize confidence and discretionary spending, and increase the likelihood for improved upward mobility, or 2) provide all of the advantages to the most deserving: the capitalists that are creating jobs and opportunities, and maximize profits by decreasing wages, decreasing tax obligations, decreasing supply of jobs, increasing demand for jobs, and eliminate the stifling governmental regulations that prevent corporations from implementing all of their plans despite concerns for health or the environment.
Although history has proven that the former is more successful for lifting all classes of workers, this does not work to the exclusive benefit of the Capitalist, so the latter must be employed. The Capitalist Class must use the system to their advantage in every way possible.
Reduce wages, Maximize profits
Privatize entitlements, Maximize profits
Deregulation, Maximize profits
Botta boom botta bing Vinnie just spelled it out for ya.
Forrest, I believe you summed that up PERFECTLY!!!
EXCELLENT comment, Vinnie!!
You win the prize for best comment on this article!
Trickle down economics work: I'll prove it to you.
Send me $100 dollars, and I MIGHT send you a $1 dollar back;)
Forrest
Look at things in terms of rich and poor is really wealth class warfare. You live in a society that if you get off the blogs and work, that if you mind your P's & Q's and suffer no out of your control events, you too can move from the poorest soul to the Richest. 56% of the wealthy in America started out as poor. There is not other country that comes close to this record. To move up in other societies, you must marry into wealth.
Now as for the gap getting larger. It is. But it is not because the wealthy are making more money and stealing it. It is because when they saw the storm clouds move in, they quit spending on anything that was not necessary and focused on having their wealth in safe locations.
You see, the next argument you might bring is that profits are at record highs. Well, some are, but most aren't. The percentage of profit though is it. IT SHOULD BE! IF it wasn't then their cuts in production to more than match the decrease in sales was not sufficient. Not only that, but they cut spending on expansion and maintaining their existing properties.
It's amazing what you can go without, if stopping spending is the key to survival. The government should try this some time.
Oh wait, it does. Every Friday night at 5PM all non-essetial government offices close and do not re-open until monday of after a federal holidayoff.
Forrest Grump 2.0 -- It is mind-bending that someone Paul Ryan's age still believes in supply-side voodoo economics -- The Jack Kemp influence we can only guess. I still hear rightwingers try to argue that tax cuts pay for themselves. Now this argument is applied primarily to the rich with the "job creator" BS. Add to that deficits don't matter or the invisible hand and you have yourself one great big voodoo feast.
So now they argue the last 30-40 years, and in particular the Lost Decade (2001-2011) due to the failed GOP/Bush-era policies didn't work not so much because it wasn't done for a long enough time, but because it wasn't "severe" enough. Capital gains, dividends, etc. should only be taxed at .082% and the highest earned income rate should be only 25%, and corporate taxes should go away too -- Right along with regulations.
Supply-side has long since been debunked. The 2008 economic meltdown was the final nail in the coffin of tax cuts, deregulation, and deficit spending with unpaid wars. We now know without doubt these policies don't work. We are very relieved that Dubya wasn't successful in privatizing Social Security. But it will take time to get this POS superstition to go away.
History proves that a strong middle class is essential to a health society on many levels. When the middle class does well, everyone does better including businesses and the rich. Most of all, if there is only a two-class system of the rich and poor, then democracy will be replaced with plutocracy along with some undesirable form of government (In the case of Romney Ryan, it could also be a theocracy.).
DB Akron -- Your post #3.18, WTF? Really, seriously?
Sure, DB, noticing that we're being screwed is really "class warfare".
RIGGGGHHHHTTTT. WE'RE the ones being warred on.
Forrest: Correct.
Suppliy side, trickle down, whatever you want to call it doesn't work and has never worked. www.zfacts.com for a nice explanation.
DB, you've got some blather talking points that aren't based in reality. The United states is something like 14th in class mobility in the world. We DON'T make rich people as well as we USED to.
The thing that surprises me is that rich people do BETTER with a thriving middle class. Why would republicans serving the rich want to hurt the middle class? I don't understand it.
DB Akron
I am not sure how any of what you posted even attempts to answer my question, but as far as class warfare or wealth warfare is concerned I do not wish to wage war on them, I simply want some fairness. The justification for a guy like Romney who at most pays less than half of the tax rate I pay, is that this will create jobs and growth and prosperity for all, and that taxing them at the same rate as somebody like me would have an adverse effect on the economy. There is no evidence to back that up whatsoever the economy was better when those people were taxed at a much much higher rate.
So again I will ask you to explain it to me DB, why if we have more wealthy people paying less taxes than we have ever had, how come this has not made our economy explode with growth and opportunity.
You need something stronger than the wealthy seen storm clouds and decided to stop spending on nonessential items, the guy you want to vote for tore down a multimillion dollar mansion on the beach to put up another bigger mansion with a car elevator, so that holds no water, and yet it did not solve the unemployment problem did it. That widening gap you admitted to, that is the key right there, I will tell you that there is not enough money in the hands of regular people to have a good economy, and I guess you will tell me we just need a few more billionaires to order car elevators with the money they shelter from from paying their fair share of taxes and then this trickle down thing will finally work. It is voodoo economics DB it does not promote growth, it does not provide jobs, it does not lead to a balanced budget, and it is simply unfair that they pay less than half the taxes as a guy like me working my ass off to make a hundred to hundred forty grand a year. You need a lot more guys like me to have a good economy and a balanced budget not a lot more guys like Romney. Here is another question for you, would it help the economy if my taxes were lowered to his rate, how come it supposedly works if you do for him, but not for me, how come republicans do not propose to lower my taxes to less then 15%.
Your right TP it is amazing, all I can say is I have worked hard all my life to make a little more, and to try and make sure the people I worked with and represented were able to get a fair slice of the profits their labor provided. If republicans want less and less for themselves one thing is for sure, trickle down economic policies will provide them with less as they desire.
BTW I want to make it known that not all businessmen are of the republican trickle down mindset. I have had the pleasure of working for, and negotiating with some very fine patriotic American businessmen who made themselves a fair profit in their industry, and paid their employees and fair decent slice of the profits their labor produced, with a living wage and a full compliment of health and retirement benefits. Most of these owners are millionaires and I don't begrudge them for it, and they don't begrudge their employees making a decent living for themselves in the process of making them millionaires.
Forrest Grump 2.0 -- You make excellent points in your posts, such as post #3.22. However, be wary of the "tax cuts across the board" ploy in response to your argument. Not only is it never as beneficial to the average American as it is to the rich, it is often a complete *bait and switch* if not in the tax code than where cuts in spending will come from to compensate.
And as if Ryan could get "all wonky on" anyone -- what math is in his plan is really bad math. The most basic lack of logic about tax cuts paying for themselves is that one would deduce there should be no taxes paid by anyone and things would be awesome. In reality Ryan can't even balance the budget for 23 years -- and not even that because his plan is based on revenue neutral assumptions (like tax cuts pay for themselves).
It's really anarchy that some Teabaggers want, and the comments Bill Clinton made about Republicans embracing Old Europe austerity and how if we worked really hard we could get our unemployment up to 11% too -- that is the truth.
President Obama's plan is to grow the middle class. This is the solution to just about everything that ails our nation.
I hear you TP but republicans never truly advocate tax cuts across the board, because as much or more than anybody they live off our taxes, it's only about tax cuts for the wealthiest and everybody else pick up the tab, on way or the other. Bottom-line is you can't have it both ways, you can't starve the beast, when you feast off the beast as well, they know this, Reagan raised taxes 11 times in 8 years. Republican states take more than their fair share of federal money, they never refuse it, it is simply a matter of who will pay, and they prefer to have a system where if you are wealthy you are forgiven the duty to pay your fair share of the nations bills. They have all kinds of nonsense arguments to try and justify why a basic unfairness is really good for you, but it isn't good for you, it is not good for the nation, and Romney will not show his taxes because even the most gullible of republicans will get a clue of just how unfair it is. Romney and his ilk are calling for sacrifice, everybody must sacrifice for the good of the nation, everybody must sacrifice for the budget, everybody must sacrifice for the economy, everybody but the wealthy, not one tiny bit of sacrifice from them, nothing, nada, zip, zilch, zero sacrifice from them. As a matter of fact they want even more tax cuts as everybody else is asked to sacrifice. I'll just be blunt, you got to be a first class chump to support that crap. If America cares anything about fairness, then it is unAmerican.
How can you say that the rich are the ones who live off the taxes paid? They are the ones PAYING the taxes.
How much is "fair share" in your opionion? Wages at 50%? Investment income (which the money used to invest was already taxed at income rate) 50% too??
Or what 100%?? Still not enough money if taxed at 100% to support all the ilk on the government doll who pay in 0%
MORON
Good to hear from you again phinephancy. As a survivor myself I wish you the best of luck in your battle.
Hi Phine, How are you feeling today?
GT,
Have you ever thought any reforms to the tax code should be done by just regular, blue collar Americans rather than special, think tank types? We understand the economy better than them (at least in my mind)
Good idea. How about a flat tax? or do away with the income tax and have a Value added tax?
The economic boom that this would unleash would be amazing..the economy would soar...a lot of accountants and tax lawyers would need to get productive new jobs...
Of course, liberals prefer the complicated tax code, it allows them to use the class warfare crap, redistribute income and punish the successful .
Bob
Read an interesting article in a mag at the chemo lab the other day. Said about every 50 years or so society (worldwide) goes through a "classwarfare"type of reveloution. Sorry I can't source it better for you, maybe the mag will still be there next week.
Sorry Bob, flat taxes would only benefit the very rich and the very poor. people like Mittens would still hide all their money overseas(how unpatriotic) and the middle class woudnt give up their mortgage and child care deductions. Also a VAT is regressive also. There is class warfare and its trickle down economics 30+ years of miserable failed economic policy with stagnant wages.
I don't know Phine, but it couldn't hurt....
John- Lets see who in history started class warfare - Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Chavez, yep it worked for them LOL
Add Reagan to the top of that list viknat, class warfare started 30 years ago with supply side ecnomics. The only fair tax is the progressive income tax. But with no loopholes for any reason. Those that have the most pay the most. That is because they can afford the most and need to support their country and their government.
Obama/Biden 2012
We don't need mortgage and child care tax deductions. Flat tax, everyone needs to pay the same amount.
Lets see who in history started class warfare - Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Chavez, yep it worked for them LOL
Hey Vik - You can now add the GOP/Tea baggers to that list......
O&Joe 2012
[Flat tax, everyone needs to pay the same amount.]
Who gets to decide what that rate will be? You? Me? Politicians?
And what rate would be "fair"? 10%? 15%? 20%?
Most corporations don't pay those rates now, so what makes you think that there is anyone out there that will float the "flat tax rate" balloon, and corporations and the 1% that are paying much less than that now are going to just say "SURE! That sounds fair!"
A flat tax rate simply won't work. Corporations and the 1% will never go for it.
Well Mickey, I don't care what the 1% will go for. They'll have no choice in a few years.
Take away the mortgage deduction, and you simply re-start the foreclosure bubble. How can that possibly make sense in trying to improve the economy.
Sorry you're having to go through that. Best wishes for a full and speedy recovery.
I don't know about every fifty years, but the French got so fed up that in 1792 they guillotined a few of those one percenters.
JohnRN
Mitt isn't hiding his money, afterall it IS on his tax returns. He is leaving it over there because the return is better ovder ther is better than here in the US. He really would be stupid to bring it over here. Even thought that money was taxed to the tune of 25 - 35% over there, if he brings it into the US it will get taxed again, and at a 38.9% rate not including any obligatory local taxes can take the rate up to 55%.
I keep trying to explain to people that our potion of Taxation, Regulation, and high wages/benefits have encouraged businesses to set up shop overseas.
I think a good example is Apple. They used to produce products here and ship them overseas, but that made them too expensive. High wages, benefits, high taxes, and massive regulations on top of shipping costs just could never compete in foreign markets for long. So they set up plants overseas using local labour to produce the products. Then they started shipping the lower constructed products back to the US. They now have profits of $78 billion sitting overseas. If they bring that money back they will lose over half to America taxes. How do you think the stockholders will react to that?
If you think about it our money got shipped out of the country to build these facilites, now they cannot bring what they earned over there from producing the profits without a stiff penalty. It doesn't hurt them to leave them over there, because the smart thing to do would be re-invest in the other country and bring back into the US only what they need to live on.
In essense, the money is actually trapped overseas. There is an estimated $1 - $2 TRILLION in corporate and individual earnings made overseas. If you could get even half of that over hear in our system, you could drop unemployment 2 points in just months.
Romney says that he has something in mind that will get the economy going. Doing some sort of tax reduction on companies bringing their operations back to the US combined with a healthy trimming of non essential and redundant regulations is probably what he has in mind.
Oh...so now that Apple uses Chinese slave labor, their products are less expensive??
Wake up, DB. Quit buying the lies.
DB: If Romney had been hiring HERE instead of in China he wouldn't have to bring it back - it would already be here and there wouldn't be double taxing. That's one of the pitfalls of investing overseas and he did it willingly, knowingly, and so did Apple. It's the cost of doing business. Now they expect a tax amnesty!! They knew what they were doing and did it anyway. It's like buying a hot car and expecting to keep it after you've been caught.
Businesses are unpatriotic. They don't care about people. Have you seen the reports about FoxConn? Apple is not proud of what's been exposed. Our regulations protect the common folk. But our businesses would rather do business with the communists and their slave labor and no regulations in order to make obscene amounts of money.
I think we should do the opposite of tax amnesty. Bring the money back now, or for every year it stays overseas the tax rate goes up 1%.
This is precisely why Nancy Pelosi introduced a bill in the House that would penalize companies that outsource jobs, and simultaneously incentivize companies to return factories and jobs back to the US.
That bill, viewed as a signature bill by the President, was blocked by the GOP Senators.
DB Akron -- "Romney says that he has something in mind that will get the economy going."
Seriously? Have you been in the shackles (or chains)for so long that you are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?
A political parody song by Bruce-1628250, to the tune of Thumbalina
GT
Actually the modern instigator in class warfare was Karl Marx. When his theory did not gain popularity as he thought he constructed it to do, he and others began developing a methodology of clever deceptions to make his system seem more virtuous than it is.
Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Kruchev and others perfected the methods. Kruchev exported the final model to the American Universities. It's a model of deception built on human greed for power, lust of intellectual superiority, self-fulfilling gain, all given at the actual price of true liberty. It is full of very clever logic that is fatally flawed that leaves the "intellect" not really so intelligent, and at the mercy of those who gain control.
The appeal to the ego and greed of the free is brilliant, because once benefits are received, your judgement is clouded. So, anything that denies the receipt of the benefits to you now is evil, ungrateful, and not intelligent. Because of it's use of "intellectual" greed, those indoctrinated will not realize they have been had until it is far too late to return. Because of the greed, they will not change their ways, because they will lose the benefits.
Marx envisioned socialism and socialistic policies to be the route to his system of rule by committee. Unfortunately, so has power brokers.
Power brokers understand that the way to power is to give things to those who vote. They soon graduate to the point of appearing to give things, for giving things away means that the source of the wealth will be diminished quickly. The goal becomes to consolidate power before the system financially collapses. Once power has been consolidated, then the giving becomes less generous, or the system financially collapse.
I was watching Star Wars Episode III last night. I am surprised that the republicans have not correlated the democratic party as the rise of Darth Sidious and the ACA as the Death Star, the most powerful weapon ever.
What was fascinating was how as Anikan was seduced, how twisted his thinking became. Funny also how he deluded himself to be doing it for others. Hmmmmmmmm.
Bleary Eyed
If our countries policies were not so onerous in the first place, the money would have stayed here.
Someone once said "anyone who does one more thing than he has to, is a fool, or insane."
CO in Florida.
I am so sorry that you have succumed to the Syndrome.
There is nothing more abusive than mental abuse. The damage is difficult to see, and if you can see it it is very difficult to repair.
The studied use of Marx is one that abuses people intellectually, emotionally, and mentally. The victims have not clue as to what has really been done to them.
That is a perfect description of the financially elite class in America, DB, the one-percenters.
Gee...what can one say to a person who gets his political philosophy from a bad movie? You seem to have a lot of time on your hands. Ever thought about going back to school and studying economics or government?
If you're addressing me, you'realoser, I make no claim to be more intelligent than average. Some of the subjects I studied in college and grad school were extremely difficult for me. There are plenty of far smarter people here than I am, and for all I know you might be one of them.
That said, we all have our own opinions and we are all entitled to them. But all opinions are not equal. An informed opinion has more merit than an uninformed opinion.
What factual basis do you have for assuming that boot-licking position, DB?
The ONE 2010 tax return Mitt has deigned to show you?
What about 2009? You know, the year that all the offshore tax cheats got amnesty if they reported their money?
Seems funny that's the one he's balking so hard about showing us!
kaybeetoys- I don't know about every fifty years, but the French got so fed up that in 1792 they guillotined a few of those one percenters.
Sounds like a home-grown growth industry to me! I"m gonna invest in guillotines!
Good to hear from you again phinephancy. As a survivor myself I wish you the best of luck in your battle.
obozo is full of bull@!$%#.....he lies and lies and lies.....he sure can't talk about unemployment going up in 44 states now can he?.......send obozo packing....ROMNEY/RYAN
No thanks. I would rather vote for someone who is not out to destroy my Social Security and Medicare.
Me to marlen101917, someone who is in touch with the people. Not somebody that feels the need to enrich the already rich while stepping on us working people.
When they say it won't effect anyone over 55, does that mean anyone without children and grand children? Last I heard the constitution stated that the object is to leave the next generation better then we had it. Killing medicare won't accomplish that for the kids.
Obama/Biden 2012
hey idiot, we were losing 800,00 jobs a month when Obama took office. Several economists have said without the stimulus we would have gone into a depression, The GOP/teabaggers won't pass a jobs bill, the highway bill or drought relief. So, yea, "Obama's" failed policies. Plus unemployment is still high because all the scumbag republithugs in the states are laying off government workers like teachers and firefighters.
obozo is full of bull@!$%#.....he lies and lies and lies.....he sure can't talk about unemployment going up in 44 states now can he?.......send obozo packing..
Hey Paddywacker -
Are you talking about the unemployment that O inherited from the fiasco of the Republican reign of 2000-2008, or are you talking about some other unemployment figure?
O&Joe 2012
Corporate In-Security
From the article above:
Sorry, Governor, but this claim is FALSE, and has been refuted as FALSE hundreds of times.
You just lied to the American People once again.
And by the way, Governor, the correct name of the Supreme Court approved health care law is called the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA).
You just insulted the American People and the President of the United States once again.
The article above continues....
Sorry, Congressman, but you also just lied and insulted the American People and the President of the United States once again.
From these coordinated quotes, it should be perfectly clear to all Americans, that Karl Rove is spreading his lying, hateful swill in yet another, vicious, mean spirited campaign.
It also should be perfectly clear to my Eisenhower-Reagan Republican friends, my Independent friends, and my Democrat friends, that both of you are unfit to hold the elected office you are seeking.
Re-elect President Obama, and take back the House of Representatives this November.
Salud
The stock market is booming, the rich have never been richer, and their taxes have never been lower, so where are all those jobs this would supposedly create, will the money start raining down on us soon? How full does their "money bladder" have to be before they have the urge to trickle on you?
The whole "Arab Spring" thing started because of a poor vendor set himself on fire (the whole rich/poor class warfare thing). The reveloution and worldwide change is coming.
Grump, are you really stupid enough to believe the moronic class warfare crap you post?
The rich pay taxes...in fact the richest 1% paid about 39% of all income taxes , the richest 5% paid a tad less than 60%, and the richest 10% paid 70%.
So you are saying the "rich" are hoarding their momeny, and they have a duty to others to hire the unemployed?
Economics 101....no one has a duty to hire anyone....to start a business or hire employees is taking a risk, to try to make more money..
They won't spend their money until P.Obama is out of the White House and back in Kenya where he belongs.
But Bob, the top 1% own 95% of the money, to be fair shouldn't they pay 95% of the taxes? If they are not going to create jobs then they are no longer the job creators so the federal government has the responsibility to take their money and invest it in infrastructure jobs. Don't like it take you money and shove off, oh and don't do any business here in the U.S.
Obama/Biden 2012
Too busy paying for your welfare and food stamps.
Not mine you miserable S.O.B. I worked for a living, you on the other hand are probably a free rider. But hey no one is perfect right, some are republicans.
Obama/Biden 2012
The rich pay taxes...in fact the richest 1% paid about 39% of all income taxes , the richest 5% paid a tad less than 60%, and the richest 10% paid 70%.
Vag Bob - They never pay that much after deductions and write-offs.....How do you think NitMitt only paid 13%, or so he says.....
O&Joe 2012
The rich pay taxes...in fact the richest 1% paid about 39% of all income taxes , the richest 5% paid a tad less than 60%, and the richest 10% paid 70%.
So Bob, that's 130% do you think I am stupid enough to believe your math, furthermore who do you think, pays the most in sales taxes, property taxes, license fees, ect. Save it Bob the wealthy are not paying their fair share, they pay half the rate in income tax than a working man.
They will not hire until their is a demand for goods and services that needs to filled, and with income shrinking for Americans that will not grow. Rich people don't support your local economy unless you have a Rolls Royce dealership or a Yacht building business, you need lots of people with a little disposable income to have a good economy. The median income in Texas is $11.20 and hour, that is $22,400 a year which means they likely don't owe any federal income tax, isn't that the real reason you say the rich pay all the taxes because many people who are working don't make enough money to owe any, but they sure pay other taxes, and they sure don't have much disposable income to drive a good economy. Truth is many of those people depend on welfare programs to make ends meet, but republicans will tell them the right to work for less and less and less, and less taxes for the corporations will help them. When will it help them Bob, it hasn't yet, less is just less Bob. You call it class warfare or anything you wish but the fact is that lining the pockets of the rich with even more wealth, will not create a single job, or help this nation solve it's debt problem, it will not create a growth spurt in the economy, it takes lots of people with a little money to do that not a few people with a lot of money. Trickle down economics depress the economy they don't expand it.
And well they should! The richest 20% of American citizens control 84% of all the wealth in the U.S.
The rich are hoarding their money, that is correct. REPUBLICANS say the rich deserve tax breaks because paying lower taxes allows them to create jobs. When will they create those jobs, Bob? We have been waiting for over a decade now.
Macroeconomics 101: the American economy is consumer driven. Almost 70% of our GDP is based on consumerism... the middle class needs disposable income in order to participate in the economic system. Without middle class purchasing power, the economy stalls. Rich people are too small a percentage of the population to keep consumerism afloat.
No one says the rich have a "duty" to hire anyone. We are just tired of being bled dry by those bloodsuckers under the guise of needing huge tax breaks so they can create jobs. IT'S A LIE!! THEY HAVEN'T CREATED ANY JOBS!!
Some of us are fed up with the lies. We are not stupid.
So Bob answer my question, the rich have never been richer, they own a larger percentage of the nations wealth than ever before in our country's history, and at the same time their taxes have never been lower, and they have been this low for 12 years now, so tell me Bob what is the glitch, why isn't everything coming up roses as trickle down economics proposes it should be. Why is it not working Bob?
Explain it to me Bob, we have more wealthy people paying less taxes than we have ever had, how come this has not made our economy explode with growth and opportunity.
You got KayBee, how many millionaires are going to "Bug Tussle" Alabama on a spending spree.
Business only hires for one reason, they have customers to service or sell to, they don't hire because their taxes are low, or because they have a lot of cash on hand. They only have employees to service customers, more customers equals more hiring, less customers equals law offs. It has nothing to do with taxes or anything else.
Exactly right, Forrest.
As you clearly stated, the rich have been getting huge tax breaks for years yet we are still suffering high unemployment.
It should be easy enough logic to follow that big tax breaks for the rich have NOT created jobs, but the trust-funders must have slept through economics class at those pricey schools their daddies sent them to.
All the money in the world can't buy a brain.
I haven't heard Obamas, job czar Jeffery Immelt, of GE complaining about paying next to nothing in taxes. How many jobs has he shipped overseas? CEO's like Jeff Immelt admittedly pledge their loyalties not to their country or their countrymen, but instead to maximizing profits for their corporate shareholders. If higher profits come at the price of devastating their country, so be it.
As Jeff Immelt has said himself, GE has a second home in China. In addition to being the parent company of all the NBC family of broadcasting networks, GE is also one of the largest military contractors in the US. A Communist country led by a military dictatorship is General Electric's new 'first home'. Obama, complains about Romney, yet he hires the biggest outsourcer of them all. LMAO
Mitt doesn't pay any payroll taxes at all, but every working stiff does. And payroll taxes make up 40% of Uncle Sam's income.
BTW: As long as we're talking about Grover Norquist, I have always wanted to know: How can so many Republicans blindly follow a man named after a Muppet?
63 billion spent on the Obama energy inicitive in two companies Think Globe and Ener1. Before Think Globe got their funds they had filed for banruptcy twice. Now both are belly up.
One of the biggest reasons that companies like Solyndra failed was not because of a bad project but cheap Chinese imports flooding the market
So we go from "Bush did it" to "the Chinese did it"'!
The Obama excuse machine is endless...and there is so much the moonbats have to make excuses for...
Psssssst, Bob you ignorant azzhole. IT WAS BUSH'S FAULT.
Obama/Biden 2012
63 billion spent on the Obama energy inicitive in two companies Think Globe and Ener1. Before Think Globe got their funds they had filed for banruptcy twice. Now both are belly up.
Rancho - You win a few and you lose a few. But its better than burying your head in the sands of the 19th century, and doing nothing but whining about fossil fuels.....
Obama/Biden 2012
And now Obama is going after the Chinese for their dumping. How does a 250% tax sound?
I will state here and now that:
and I DEMAND to see his real LONG FORM Birth Certificate to prove otherwise.
Why else would so many deluded (conservative) people keep saying the same thing over and over? This is what they all say:
Get Donald Trump and Joe Arpaio on that stat! The Goofy Old Poop Squad in action again!!!
The tax situation is one of the problems, when 46% pay no taxes and a large percentage of those are millionaires something is wrong.
The wealthy pay 70% of the taxes, where did you get your figures from a comedian?
The comedian known as Barack Kardassian....his class warfare schtick comedy act is on its last tour, closing in November...
What? The 46% who pay no taxes are NOT the millionaires. The majority of that group are most likely on some form of entitlement program. Yes Romney paid 13% because it was taxes on money he has already been taxed on (probably in the top tax bracket), it is called interest or dividend income. Anyone with a savings account gets the same kind of interest and pays tax on it. Your savings account generates interest on dollars you previously paid taxes on...or...else you acquired the cash illegally.
Which brings up another looming crisis, and why we need a plan for the illegals, who pay zero % tax. Not to mention the insurance mess with health and auto, which they don't carry, and yet have the same rights or drive any way. You and I take that financial hit too. Let's discuss real issues.
Why don't both of you bite me. The rich pay very little 70% is not accurate. The middle class by sheer numbers pay more then the rich bitch class.
Obama/Biden 2012
Been eating too much OdumbO dropping. Your getting a dropping rush.
Speaking of dropping and Rush in the same sentence would be appropriate. Like Rush eats droppings. But you mispelled Obama.
Obama/Biden 2012
Independent ----I'm sure glad your not my bookkeeper.
Speaking of dropping and Rush in the same sentence would be appropriate. Like Rush eats droppings. But you mispelled Obama.
John - Lucky for Marco that we outlawed literacy tests, or he'd be @!$%# out of luck come election day.
Oh well, for that matter, the goddamn TeaParty would be locked out at the polls.....
Obama/Biden 2012
The median income in America is $26,364. That means that 157 million Americans make that much or less in a year. We have a progressive income tax system that is balanced by a regressive payroll tax system.
Romneyhood pays income taxes but no payroll taxes.
The bottom half of this country are too poor to pay income taxes, but we do pay payroll taxes. And payroll taxes account for 40% of Uncle Sam's income.
Talking about only income taxes is lying by omission.
Big talk, John, without any facts. You are obviously a Dem.
Sounds just like Hussein, talk, talk, lie, lie.
Wah! Wah! Wah! I pay the majority of taxes because I have to also pay for so many entitlement programs for lazy bums who don't want to work. Amazing how many sheep actually believe that lie. I live in the real world and I talk to people. If they are not working, they are suffering and unhappy. Many work 2 to 3 jobs and are tired and frustrated. If the rich want to stop paying for entitlement programs for lazy bums, then they need to stop shipping our jobs overseas and recognize that for America to work, American workers need to be paid decent wages.
The second lie that corporations exist ONLY to maximize profit and this entitles them to completely overthrow morality and ethics is just that, a LIE. If you want to believe it, go ahead and stick your head in the sand. I have an MBA and have worked 60 hour work weeks for years. Any my employer still shipped my job to India.
The idea that 46% pay no taxes, or that illegals pay no taxes, is completely incorrect. They pay no "income tax" which is hardly the same thing. Everyone pays taxes of some sort, and many people who pay no income tax still pay a larger share of their worth in other taxes than the wealthy pay. Stop spreading this falsehood. The reason they pay no income tax is because they already make so little money that taking even more would be ridiculous. But everyone pays taxes, period.
The government should end income tax and tax @!$%# that people buy. Than everyone would pay taxes. Not just the middle class and people who are smart enough to make their money work for them.
For health care people should smoke marijuana. Johnny Pot Seed says "A joint a day keeps the doctor away"
Stop taking the man made medications. they are BAD for you.
what medical/nursing school did yougo to? When your dying of sepsis or flesh eating bacteria, need insulin for your diabetes, an inhaler for your bronchitis just tell the doctor, no thanks man!
The government is working on depopulating the world. After the crops fail from drought caused by the nano particles of aluminum released into the atmosphere from the chem trails the government will release the black plague to kill billions of people world wide.
Than Obama will declare Martial Law and send people to FEMA concentration camps to have your head chopped off.
Man I think the orderlies might need to stop by and revoke your "computer time" and give you your happy meds now.
John, with Hussein's health plan, there won't be any doctors.
More tin foil, please. Jeffrey and Hjack are runnin' short.
John and Jeffrey: Are you two guys a Scientology Cult tag team? You read science fiction stuff in your dorm room and feel the need to evangelize?
And Obama will raise unemployment, food stamps, welfare, illegal aliens, deficit, class warfare, cost of energy, cost of living, etc.. etc..
And when we get rid of the do nothing congress, then maybe Obama can get some of the things done that he wants done. Like pass the JOBS act and the Farm bill and a few things like that. It blows my mind that some people seem to think that a Country runs on AIR. That is why we have taxes to support our country, so if you don't want to pay your share of taxes (anyone), stay off my streets, roads, parks and don't you dare call 911 for assistance because that is MINE. I paid the taxes to support those things, you didn't. My advice is if you don't like our tax system, move to another country and see how you like paying 50% or more in taxes.
Obamas new campaign slogan " You didn't lose that job by yourself, the Govt. helped.... Outsourcer in Chief, has failed to level the playing field with China, like he promised. I know Mr President, you're too busy pandering to the illegals and gays.
Sign your campaign is in trouble: you start bringing mom on the campaign trail...78 years old!!...it is too early to start getting desperate.
Sign your campaign is in trouble; Joe Biden is the tip of your spear.
I don't think she has to worry about medicare!
Willard and Paul's budget is immoral.
Taking from the middle class to give to the rich, plus ending Medicare and Social Security, it is beyond immoral, it is down right treasonous.
300,000 budget cuts are forcing school districts to fire teachers and staff. The White house stated more than 300,000 jobs have been lost, since the end of the recession in 2009. LMAO the recession hasn't ended if anything we've moved into a light depression. In other news Jay Leno, has taken a large pay cut to save the jobs of other staffers, how patriotic of him... The President, with his back door amnesty program will dump millions of illegals on these states, at a time when millions of American citizens, are without jobs. How many more jobs, will these states be forced to cut this year? Ask yourself can we afford 4 more of 44? If the answer is no.. Vote for Romney, give him a chance to prove himself. If, he fails we fire him.
Romney/Ryan 2012
POISON, It thought it was the Right that hated government workers? I mean, they're all lazy, overpaid slackers right??? It's GOP governors who have been canning state employees like there's not tomorrow. Now you're whining about teachers being laid off?
"Throughout his stops in New Hampshire, he asserted that under Ryan's budget, Romney would pay less than 1 percent in taxes..."
Another big whopper of a lie.
Where is the lie? Take the taxes Romney paid on capital gains he paid less then 13% it would be less then 1%. Do the math.
Obama/Biden 2012
The liar is Bob in Virginia-5210392.
Va. Bob, you are ate up with it. You have no clue.
What? The 46% who pay no taxes are NOT the millionaires. The majority of that group are most likely on some form of entitlement program. Yes Romney paid 13% because it was taxes on money he has already been taxed on (probably in the top tax bracket), it is called interest or dividend income. Anyone with a savings account gets the same kind of interest and pays tax on it. Your savings account generates interest on dollars you previously paid taxes on...or...else you acquired the cash illegally.
Which brings up another looming crisis, and why we need a plan for the illegals, who pay zero % tax. Not to mention the insurance mess with health and auto, which they don't carry, and yet have the same rights or drive any way. You and I take that financial hit too. Let's discuss real issues.
Sorry to burst your bubble azzhole republican but its true millionaires do not pay taxes.
Obama/Biden 2012
The economy is tanking, gas at an all time high and all you can bitch about is class warfare. No wonder your a Lib.
Marko you stupid conservative, the economy was in the dump 4 years ago, we was losing 700,000 jobs a month the last few months of Bush's term. Seems like the Dow was 6000, now it is 13000, and we have had positive job growth for the last 21 months. The economy is in recovery. Blame the oil companies for the cost of gas. Class warfare started 30 years ago with supply side economics. It is about time the middle class stood up to you rich coke suckers. Enough is enough.
Obama/Biden 2012
John Corzine eat me. You are the liar here. Millionaires do not pay taxes.
Obama/Biden 2012
And Obama lets his half brother live in squalor in Africa, something that all us will be living like if the Marxist is re-elected!
Millionaires do not pay payroll taxes. They don't even come close to paying all of the income taxes.
The working class pays payroll taxes, and payroll taxes are where Uncle Sam gets 40% of his income.
Unless the millionaires are on a payroll, then they do. Money that has been invested, normally has already been taxed, so the return on that investment, which has been little or non existent under this administration, is taxed at a lower rate, because tax has already been collected on the principle. Just like some retirement funds that people invest in, and depend on to supplement social security. In recent years even social security benefits are taxed, even though it's a mandated trust fund, and it taxed when it is earned as a payroll tax. If one dies early they lose that investment.
The net worth of median income families has decreased by 40% in the last 3 years, that's what was published a couple weeks ago here on MSNBC. This means that 4/10ths of everything the middle class has worked and earned in their life is gone. This is clearly on the current administration's watch. What that means is instead of spending political capital on preserving and protecting the economy, as should have been done, it was spent on social programs like Obamacare, and the union bale out of the UAW. Where the suppliers to GM and Chrysler took a bath, in that bankruptcy, but the UAW wasn't required to take the benefits from those who retired after a very short employment. They should have lost everything just like the suppliers, or the suppliers should have been treated equally, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Instead of investing their political capital as they did, they could have addressed trade imbalance, trade agreements, and import tariffs that would make domestically produced products and services competitive in the domestic market, thus stimulating the domestic economy. I could care less about what foreign economies do, so long as ours is working as it should. But when Democrats were in complete control of the House, Senate, and White House, the liberals in the party dropped the ball on the American people, pursuing their social agenda. Famous quote 'We won't know what's in it until we pass it' sounds like a pig in the poke to me.
I'm all for Hope and Change, I hope we get change this November!
When Obama's re-elected seniors biggest risk is going to come from people robbing or conning them out of all the money they've horded over the years. There are going to be alot of desperate people out there and seems to me these old folks have horded quite a bit of their money.
That makes these old folks a lot smarter than politicians who put us $16 trillion in debt Of course, these politicians have padded their own pockets so they won't have to suffer!
You are correct! Big Daddy Bush and his Carlyle Group is hoarding $1.3 Trillion overseas. He has even said when and where he is going to spend it.
When someone else does the heavy lifting and gets the American economy going again he is going to invest that $1.3 Trillion.......in China, India, and Brazil.
Isn't it nice to know that our former President is so very very patriotic?
94% of our national debt came from three people.
Reagan
bush
Bush/cheney
Have a nice day.
weirdscience-90210; What money have the seniors been hoarding over the years? Much of it mysteriously disappeared from our 401(k) within the last few years (although it's back up now I don't hold much hope for it staying there), and the house that we bought and paid for in full is worth just a few thousand dollars more than we paid for it in 1982.
We're too busy paying skyrocketing energy, food and healthcare costs to be able to hoard any money. And never mind trying to afford sending our children to college.
Right now my hoard consists of a Hinckley & Schmitt jar full of change. I have change, but no hope.
OdumbO your telepromter has lied so much we really don't know when your telling the truth if you ever had. The economy is going down the toilet, gas prices or getting close to an all time high, deficiet is sky rocketing, stole 715 billion from medicare to pay for yomamacare, you haven't had a job council meeting in 7 months, but you havn't missed a campaign stop yet. What a commander in awol. The only ace in the hole is you have the news media on your side the three stoogies @bc, cb$, &bc.
"citing an analysis that found the plan could cost seniors $6,400 extra each year."
Hey NBC, how about telling us common folk where we can read this analysis for ourselves?
Hey NBC, how about telling us common folk where we can read this analysis for ourselves?
^ Assuming you can read:
Barack Obama, citing Congressional Budget office says Paul Ryan’s Medicare plan could raise costs for Medicare beneficiaries by $6,000 each - politfact.com rates as TRUE.
Hmmm. That is very bad news for me. My after tax income is $20,000. Taking $6,000 out of that just so some Billionaire can get another tax cut doesn't seem very fair.
O&Joe 2012!
The movement of wealth to the top 1% is the highest it has bee since 1929. It is unsustainable. Vote for Obama.
Obama, is one of those millionaires. Why doesn't he just write a check for more taxes. President Obama and Warren Buffet have yet to do that.
They are on record as saying they will do just that.
Just as soon as the law is changed so that they ALL can.
Bill Gates is on record as wanting those unfair laws changed too.
So they can't pay more now? Miklkit, you're drinking the kool-aid
And while the president was on the defensive regarding Medicare, he also continued to focus attention on tax rates. Throughout his stops in New Hampshire, he asserted that under Ryan's budget, Romney would pay less than 1 percent in taxes.
"That's a pretty good deal, just paying 1 precent in taxes -- you're making millions of dollars. Here's the kicker, they expect you to pick up the tab," he told the crowd here.
----------------
Less than 1 percent AND I lose my Medicare.
When you come home from another long 12 hr shift, that's the last thing you need to hear.
Although you are still thankful to even have a job
The truth can sometimes set you free. You won't get the truth from Robmehood/Ruin
Vote Obama/Biden 2012
And you believe the that the martians are going to bail us out! How much Obama koolaid did you drink in order to believe all his lies? The guy that brought us $6 trillion in debt, the guy who promised ObamaCare would only cost $900 billion in ten years that now is estimated to cost $2.7 TRILLION and climbing, 41 months over 8% unemployment, smallest percentage of Americans working in history!
Hey, all of that obstruction from your do nothing House is starting to show results.
Aren't you so very proud of yourself for deliberately sinking America?
You pathetic swine.
The lower 46 % of the country have nothing. They own less than 1% of the assets. This group includes teenagers with their first job and seniors on fixed incomes. The top 1 % owns nearly half of the wealth. Is it any wonder they should pay the lion's share of the taxes?
^ Now, now, I told your wife to be quiet about that!
The fact of the matter is, while the percentage may be 46% a good number of them are millionaires that pay zero taxes.
Obama/Biden 2012
Savejustice
Then explain why Obama with Democratically controlled Congress extended the Bush tax cuts to the rich rather than implement his tax reform? Tax reform that is supposed to create jobs for the middle class.
Obama sang this ture in his first campaign and what did the American people get for their support. The Bush tax cuts to the rich extended, a never ending ever growing debt crisis that has made our government unstable and a national debt of $16 trillion.
How can any one trust a man whose words and deeds condemn him as irresponsible and a failed leader?
What happened, you lie, your feet stink and you don't love Jesus, it was a republican controled house that held unemployment for millions hostage for the top 2%.
Obama/Biden 2012
Created any jobs lately?
Ahh we poor Americans do pay taxes. We pay payroll taxes that makes up 40% of Uncle Sam's income. Only the aristocracy pay income taxes.
John, don't be calling people liars when the record clearly reflects the House, Senate and White House was in the Democrats hands 2008 thru 2010, and they had a filibuster proof majority, a pat hand, a Royal Flush in poker. They squandered their political capital, instead of addressing the economy as promised, so, they were voted out, just like Obama will be.
Andy, the Dems never had a filibuster proof Senate as their party is not a monolithic party of lemmings as is the GOP. The Dems are free to think and vote for themselves and are from every political persuasion from liberal to conservative. There has never been the level of filibusters as in these past nearly four years which has nearly brought our country to it's knees. The GOP should be proud of their treasonous activities, yet like Romney's taxes, what they did was legal.
This article in a nutshell:
^ Record to run on: Health Care Reform, 41/2 million jobs created in the last 3 years, killing Bin Laden, saving the auto industry, ending the Iraq War.
Record to RUN FROM: Kill Medicare by turning it into a voucher.
The Robme/Lyin team is pretty lousy, no wonder they are running.
Fry, I don't think I'd run on that record. First off, 60% of Americans want ACA repealed. Probably not the best idea to brag about being the guy who passed it. Second, the jobs created? Fictitious and you know it. Obama is going to be the first President to end his term with a net job loss, and that's a proven, undeniable fact that you can look up and verify easily. Killing bin Laden? Bush set up the intelligence networks, Juan Gonzalez of the CIA used all the methods Obama opposes (as he outlines in his book Hard Measures) to gain info from Khalid Sheik Muhammad, and Seal Team Six did the dirty work. Where does Obama fit in again? Oh, and saved the auto industry? All he did was dump a bunch of our money into it. They're still billions in debt. I don't consider them 'saved.' They've been given a short lease on life thanks to Obama's generosity with our money. So all you're left with is trying to claim that our wonderful General Obama ended the Iraq War. Good luck with that one. I don't think you'll get very far with it, but hold onto it tightly, because it's all you've got left.
Cubs fan, you got to turn that WLS off, Rush is not your friend, his lies are your lies.
Obama/Biden 2012
Cubs Fan - By the while you were railing on another site about Wealthy Democrats - you missed one of your buddies
Darrell Issa is a self-made
millionaire with a net worth
estimated at as much as $450 million, making him the wealthiest
currently-serving member of Congress
National Pastime of Republicans - Cherry Picking!
Actually, I think it was you who cherry picked. You cherry picked comments. I specifically recall the comment I was replying to was from a Liberal who said that Ryan was the wealthiest member of the House AFTER Issa. And I responded by challenging the accuracy of that statement and listing Polis and Harman as the two wealthiest members after Issa. I even recall mentioning Issa's name in my post, I believe. You also chose to cherry pick stats. You quoted Issa's maximum worth. I'm sure you'd feel cheated if I quoted his minimum worth. His average worth is readily available, and it's far less than 450 million. All the Democratic net worths I quoted were average worths, as well. Besides which, I mentioned the names of SEVERAL Democrats, and the best you can counter with is one Republican? Tsk, tsk, tsk.
Try again, Darling.
Isn't Issa a felon too?
Typical lying republicon.
Cubs Fan - Second Republican's National Pastime - Darling - Lying!
And sorry Darling you gave no net worths - but you named Kerry, Pelosi, Reed all Democrats and forgot about Issa
By the way that info came from Wikipedia - you don't think good ole' Issa is pumping up his figures?
And the reason I mentioned one Republican is that his mound of money is more than most of the Democrats combined
Here's another one for you Paul Ryan ranks 25th richest in House of Representatives - Cutie Pie!
Medicare is insurance, not a voucher which you could use to try to go out and buy insurance!
Once you destroy medicare - i'd rather just have my tax money back than have Ryan give me a percentage of the taxes i've paid all my life - back as and f-ed up voucher!
Ryan's "plan" stinks.
Don't you mean bankrupcy.
re: path to austerity.
^ GOP does not advocate austerity.
Austerity combines increase in taxes and descrease in spending.
It's a bad idea but that's not what the GOP wants.
GOP wants the following:
* the rich should pay less taxes.
* the middle class should pay more taxes.
* health care, social security and education should be cut.
* this is stimulous for the rich, and austerity for everyone else.
You may be a GOP lackey, but if you won't understand this, then you don't understand the party you supposedly support.
Obama's plan for Medicare..kick the can down the road untill there is no more Medicare! I can't believe how misinformed the Obamanites are! It appears that the liberals in here don't read anything except Democrat talking points! They don't have a clue what trouble this country is in! If you take the TOTAL NET WORTH of the richest tax payers (estimated at $54 trillion), it doesn't even cover half of the combined national debt and unfunded social programs! You can find this information right on the IRS website. Bet this gets a bunch of one line stupid responses from the left!!
Isn't that what Greece did?
No one paid taxes, and then they decided to try austerity. How is that working out?
England was coming out of the Great Recession nicely until the conservatives got into power and enacted austerity. Now England is back in a recession.
England and Greece both? Coincidence? Methinks not.
If anyone would know its Obama. With democratic control of Congress he not only supported, pushed and got the Bush tax cuts to the rich extended, he never implemented his tax reform that was going to create jobs for the middle class while purging Medicare of over $700 billion to boost the profits of "for profit" health insurance companies under his Obamacare.
Liar, ain't nobody going to buy that. It was a tea bag congress that held unemployment hostage for millions. Next time it came up they held the debt ceiling hostage.
Obama/Biden 2012
what happened - You've been listening to too much Limbaugh, and that's bad for your brain cells......
Read it if you care; While you folk are calling each other names and hating over the difference in health care reform take a minute out to consider this; Who writes the paycheck for every government employee? Now by government employee I am talking CIA, FBI, OSHA,FEMA, as well as your congressmen, senators, ect. to many others too numerous to mention. Seriously, where does that money originate? How much does the average factory worker make a year? Or better yet , the bulk of the tax payers? So these public service employees have incomes ranging anywhere from 40k to 500k a year plus many with unlimited expense accounts. They are on a whole different medical and retirement plan than what you are. There is no co-pays or 80% for the upper income employees. These people decide whether to spend 1k dollars on a toilet seat or give grants in access of a million to find out how a tape worm propagates. Now you are going to argue with each other, calling each other names over which party is screwing you. Wake the F up!! Both of them are raping you for every dime they can squeeze out of you. How about you all band together and fight against the real culprit here and force government reform across the board. Make your voice heard about tax breaks for job outsourcing, about both of these ridiculous health care plans, about the welfare and SS abuse. While you are wondering if you will be able to afford food and general living maintenance taking cut after cut while pricing increases daily how come your representatives are still getting thousand dollar a year raises instead of taking pay cuts as well. How a government on the brink of bankruptcy can still dish out billions of dollars in foreign aid and continue to get larger and larger. ... just saying
Yeah, none of us have near the deal on healthcare that our public 'servants' have. How is it that they are called 'servants' when all they do is suck off us. Isn't the definition of that a leech?
Good post steve Wilde, to bad everyone doesn't "get it"
Amen Bear...
I hope enough people figure this out someday but I am not sure it will ever happen as a dumbed down America keeps the machine going for the connected in Washington.
Think about this, 2 families held the Presidency for 16 years prior to President Obama getting elected. How he was ever elected is amazing as at that time he truly did not have the credentials. The Republicans pissed off everyone and spent like drunken sailors when they had control of Congress as the Democrats seem to do. Basically, our best people won't run for office as it is not worth the scrutiny. How many people do you know that could actually say they didn't inhale and not get proven wrong.