Obamacare does not cut one dime of Medicare benefits to anyone.
The President's plan SAVES money and re-directs it to healthcare for seniors and the poor. It saves $716 billion that was going to waste, fluff and profits to corporations.

The GOP/Romney "deficit" and "voucherize" codes: GOP wants to go back to before Obamacare, and hand American health care back to big corporations again. And that is the beginning, middle and end of their plan for - well, everything. (Ryan met with Sheldon Adelson yesterday.) As a long-time devotee of Ayn Rand, Paul Ryan will con-cur that it is Rand's philosophy to support only the very rich ~ because everyone else is such a worthless lousy drag on corporate profits.

So privatize/privatize/privatize: RomneyRyan want to go back to the failed days of yore by giving depreciating vouchers to seniors >> who will have no choice but to give more money to insurance companies << and send us all backwards<<.

If the diabolikduo get their way we'll be in hand-to-hand combat with the health care sharks, even when we're very sick/too ancient to negotiate. And we mere roaches and leaches will be tightening our little belts, while the top 0.01% get richer - as per Ayn Rand's instructions from beyond the grave.

Paul Ryan's Medicare plan is extremely unpopular nationally - and after GOP voted lock-step for Ryan's budget! No wonder RomneyRyan are trying to rope us down to their level with accusations about Medicare.
Ryan admitted it yesterday: "We need this debate".

Romney Taxes are back Front and Center

The words used by Ann Romney during her interview with Natalie Morales that will be aired tonight on Rock Center are telling.

Mrs. Romney said that releasing more tax returns would only give them more ammunition.

If there is no "smoking gun" then how would releasing more tax returns provide more than just blank rounds?

Clearly there is something in his tax returns that would disqualify Mitt Romney, with the voters, to be President and could cause him to not get the nomination.

Just speculation would say that it is probably somewhere between paying zero taxes (one or more years) and that he took advantage of the tax amnesty law that allowed holders of hidden accounts that evaded taxes to claim those funds without prosecution.

What Romney and Ryan are up to is simple: They want to have it both ways on Medicare. They are for Medicare cuts, because Medicare is expensive and the federal budget needs to be controlled. And they are against Medicare cuts, because Medicare cuts are unpopular.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-15/romney-ryan-want-it-both-ways-on-medicare.html

As I wander through the dissonance of political speak and the mantra from the GOP that Liberals tax and spend I end up with Ryan who would spend but not tax. Ryan is a credit card economist who only cares about the debt holders; he has no compunction about spending credit as his history during the Bush Administration shows. Talking through my cat hat? If the Romney Ryan ticket is supposed to be so good for the economy, how is it that the markets responded in the negative over the past few days since the announcement? Perhaps the movers and shakers of the market are as un-enamoured about Ryan as it appears many of GOP and their pundits are. I will discount Rush and his fantasy of the market “going through the roof” and remind one and all that market value has doubled since Obama took office and that a 30%+ average yearly gain is “going through the roof.”

Paul Ryan is a hypocrite when it comes to stimulus and green energy funds:

Rep. Ryan wrote letters in 2009 to Energy Secretary Steven Chu and Labor Secretary Hilda Solis seeking stimulus grant money for two Wisconsin energy conservation companies. One of them, the nonprofit Wisconsin Energy Conservation Corp., later received $20.3 million from the Energy Department to help homes and businesses improve energy efficiency, according to federal records.

In a letter to Chu in December 2009, Ryan said the stimulus money would help his state create thousands of new jobs, save energy and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. That contrasted with his public statements denigrating the stimulus program as a "wasteful spending spree." It also conflicts with his larger federal budget proposal, which would slash Energy Department programs aimed at creating green jobs.....

Ryan also sent three letters to Chu in October 2009 seeking stimulus money for the Energy Center of Wisconsin, another nonprofit organization that promotes energy efficiency. The company later received $190,000 in stimulus money to conduct research on geothermal heating and $50,000 more to develop a training curriculum for students at Milwaukee Area Technical College.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ryan-called-stimulus-wasteful-then-152731457.html?l=1

Please save Medicare and vote for Obama.

The GOP only has itself to blame because of the Ryan pick. Seniors are naturally concerned. First the GOP destroyed the economy (recession), now they are ready to destroy Medicare?

You have to be kidding me, right? No! The GOP wants to 'starve the beast,' destroy entitlements, and go back to their 'good old' days of plutocracy when the robber barons ruled in a time of segregation.

The GOP is again ready to Rob Peter the Middle Class and pay Paul...Ryan and the 1%ter he represents. They want to destroy Medicare so they can cut taxes for the 1%.

Dennis:

I think you are on track of something big: Maybe tax fraud. If I were Romney I wouldn't want to release my taxes either. Maybe it is as simple as he didn't tithe enough to his church. Maybe his IRA of one million dollars is illegal.

And BTW, Willard, you cannot use the excuse that you released the same amount as McCain. As Senator, McCain released many years of his tax returns.

Backhouse: You laid the Medicare issue out as clear as a bell. Everyone reading First Thoughts can understand it...Well almost everyone.

Love it Job1. recently while driving out west, I never saw one Romney sticker not even in AZ. I had my magnetic Obama sticker on the car all throughout our travels and saw some Obama/Biden stickers too. Even here at home I have yet to see one Romney sticker, there is an old coot who drives around town with McCain/Palin sticker but still doesn't have one for Romney. Sure says a lot.

Ryan's Medicare plan uses the same 716 billion from Medicare to make reforms that Obama's plan does.

What's Romney's answer? I'll restore Medicare Advantage, adding that 716 billion dollars to the deficit, and then Romney doesn't say where he will make reforms, other than "it won't be a voucher program".

Romney's Medicare plan = increase the deficit.

Romney is the "I will say anything to get elected" candidate.

Romney's tax plan increases the deficit by 5 trillion.

Now Romney is going to "restore Medicare Advantage and broaden it" which will add to the deficit.

Romney's plan for the US economy = raise the deficit.

Thanks Ron, hi friends,

"The Obamacare savings slow the growth of Medicare over the next decade by, in part: eliminating overpayments to private insurers in Medicare Advantage, reforming provider payments to encourage greater efficiency, tying reimbursements to improvements in economic productivity, and reducing fraud and abuse.

The law does not impact patient benefits.

As a result of these savings, "growth in spending will be restrained" and the life of the Medicare trust fund is expanded by eight years, the government estimates.

Sixteen million seniors are also benefiting from the savings by receiving preventive benefits without deductibles or co-pays and saving more than $3.9 billion on prescription drugs." (Igor Volsky)

(Chart p.2, shows savings made on Obamacare at http://www.cms.gov/apps/files/ACA-savings-report-2012.pdf)

Numbers are so confusing. Speed limit is 70. You're going 70 and people are flying by. National debt is more than $15-trillion. Confusingly huge. Numbers say Herman Cain is hot. Nope, it's Newt Gingrich. Oh wait, it's Rick Santorum. Nope, it's Mitt Romney. Very confusing.

Poll numbers say we think Congress is doing a terrible job - just 10% approve of their work. Come November, we'll go to a real poll and send just about every Congressman running for re-election right on back to D.C. Very, very confusing.

A number that's sure to confuse is $715-billion. That's close to what Romney proposes to cut from Medicare, and close to what President Obama proposes to cut. It's almost like they agree, right?

As John Boehner would say, "HELL NO!" Romney's cuts are made up by the actual health care recipients, unless you're older than 65, but maybe later if you're 67, but only if you're 55 or younger now. If you're 55 or younger, you'll get a voucher for health insurance when you're 65 or maybe 67 or 119. A voucher is money you will receive from the government that will not be enough to pay for medical care. No more Medicare.

If you're 65 or older right now, you keep Medicare, you're in great health, and you're loaded. As for the very rare poor seniors, they have to decide between prescriptions they can't afford and medical treatments like dancing horses.

Obama's cuts are covered by health care providers in the glorious free enterprise sector. That's the on-the-rocks insurance companies, starving pharmaceutical corporations, and hospitals that charge 20-bucks for an adhesive bandage.

Here's another confusing number - 8.3% - the unemployment rate. There are other measures of unemployment though. One includes people who have given up looking for work. They don't have jobs, but they don't count as unemployed. There's more of course, and they're known as "U1", "U2", "U3", right up to, and including "U R nuts to take these numbers seriously".

For example, a housewife running a household and raising two children is not counted as employed. Working in the home IS NOT work, so she's not counted in the "U" numbers AND she won't qualify for Social Security. All kinds of out-of-work folks don't count. Count them, and the real rate is much higher than 8.3%.

Republicans say we can fix Medicare AND Social Security by raising retirement age to 67. You ask: "If there's so many people ALREADY unemployed, where will all these old folks find work?" Well, here's one answer. Don't look for work. Start a family, stay home and raise the kids. Then you're not unemployed.

The long and short of it is that we have some serious problems, and neither Romney's nor President Obama's solutions are going to solve them. Romney's answer is to kill government. President Obama's solution only postpones a government crash.

Romney's solution benefits only the very richest Americans. Voting for Romney is virtual suicide for most of us. President Obama's plan proposes to help ALL of America, but it is strictly a stopgap measure. Voting for President Obama isn't enough. We have to demand that he stop pussyfooting around with Medicare and Social Security and take the steps necessary to make them healthy. Not just for the next few years, but for the rest of our lives.

“There's going to be no more tax releases given." Mrs. Romney said if they release any more information, "it will only give them more ammunition."

We'll just see about that Annie!...Ammunition....that's a clue that there is something wrong.....Did you cheat on the IRS Tax Amnesty Program?

Lawrence O' was great last evening......go get 'em Lawrence!

It's All About Medicare?

That's okay with me. I think the Romney/Ryan approach to Medicare is a mirror into their overall philosophical approach to governance.

Romney/Ryan want to take a popular program that everyone pays into and that treats everyone the same, and turn it into a voucher program that will reward insurance companies and create a two-tiered system of healthcare.

The "savings" from this approach will then be used to give additional tax breaks to the wealthy.

Medicare is a fairly siple program. You pay into it, when you are eligible it is there for you. Medicare also has the lowest administrative costs of any health insurance program. It is almost universally accepted at doctors across the country, and Seniors don't have to make annual decisions on which program will work best for them.

This is the program Romney/Ryan want to fix?

And in case you missed it, here is an excerpt from a previous "First Read" article on Paul Ryan's speech on Medicare:

Ryan on Medicare: 'We want this debate'

By NBC’s Alex Moe

OXFORD, OH -- Appearing at his alma mater Wednesday, Republican vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan weighed in on the Medicare debate for the first time before voters on the campaign trail.

“The president, I'm told, is talking about Medicare today,” Congressman Ryan told the couple-thousand-person crowd at Miami University. “We want this debate, we need this debate, and we will win this debate.”

While Ryan touched on the topic on a college campus Wednesday, he mostly attacked Obama and failed to offer specifics of what a Romney-Ryan plan would look like.

This is the Romney/Ryan approach to most issues, attack President Obama and offer no specific alternative. How is that a debate?

Paul Ryan: The Deficit? I Built That!

It's a pity he wouldn't be allowed in his own party today!

Isn't it amazing how fast this party has fallen?

The republicans of old are rolling in their graves.

Gallup polls shows that the America trusts Obama with Medicare more than Romney 49 to 40.

Romney won't keep Medicare safe, he'll say he will, and then he'll get into office and cut it.

Ben-636050 - Whose web site did you cut and paste that from, hmmm? Mitts? Thought so!

Romney's Medicare plan is 902 words long and sketchier than Ryan's - and I would not call it "Premium" anything:

"Should Romney restore the $716 billion — and unless he institutes other yet to be specified reforms — we would move back to the old system of overpaying private insurers and providers.

He'd be re-inserting inefficiency back into the system, jeopardizing the benefits that seniors are currently enjoying, and shrinking the solvency of the Medicare trust fund from 2024 under current law to 2016.

"All of the demonstration and pilot programs aimed at payment and delivery system reform would also be eliminated," Steve Zuckerman of the Urban Institute told ThinkProgress.

"Definitely, the 8 year extension in the life of the Medicare HI trust fund would be gone."

He added, "If I could ask Romney-Ryan one question on this topic it would be: After you repeal the ACA and restore the cuts in Medicare payments, would you then reinstate the Medicare cuts as part of your own budget plan?" (Igor Volsky)

Ann says she is not hiding anything, but she will not show it. How stupid can a person get?

1. Do you consider the amount of taxes paid on the winnings enough? If not how much should be paid?
2. Do you now consider that person to part of the evil 1%?
3. The remainder of the winnings will now be taxed as capital gains and not income. Is that fair?
4. If this now 1%er chooses to invest his/her money in legal accounts whether or not they are in this country or not, is that his/her right?
5. And if this now 1%er has been a fine upstanding citizen throughout their life, does this disqualify him/her from running for any public office?

1: The current rate is fine.

2: No.

3: Eh...not the best, but considering what they already paid I can look the other way.

4: Yes

5: No

What was the point in these questions again?

A lie. Current seniors and those 55 and older will see no change. Medicare goes broke in 20 years with Obama's plan, which is to do nothing, so anyone under 45 will currently get nothing.

That's another lie JoAnnaSmith. First off, if Medicare survives the onslaught of baby boomers retiring and doesn't go broke, it will survive into the future as there will be less people retired. My guess is that you contorted some (probably bias) article that said: "at the rate of current spending it will be broke" into this lie. Guess what? The rate of spending will go down after the baby boomers.

Scattershooting a few random observations while wondering whatever happened to Dan Quayle….

………………………………………….

If you have a 401K could you check the balance on 1/20/09 and compare it to the balance today? Thanks. Now for those of you planning to vote for Mitt Romney would you be so kind as to send me the difference? You obviously have no regard for your own money and since you plan on losing it again anyway, you might as well give it to someone who will put it to good use. For those of you voting to re-elect the President, send an email to the White House thanking him for getting back all of your retirement money Bush gambled away. And some!

………………………………………….

Does Paul Ryan know that his intellectual inspiration and idol, Ayn Rand, received Medicare to pay her health care bills in her unsuccessful battle against lung cancer? Does he know she also received Social Security from the time she retired until the day she died? Heck, does he even know he might not have been able to afford that fancy schmancy degree from that elitist Miami of Ohio University without Social Security? And, what’s up with getting a B.A. degree, Paul? Liberal Arts? Good God, are you some sort of leftist pinko? Everyone knows Liberal Arts degrees are worthless and only for pantywaists. It’s a good thing you found jobs sucking off the government teat and on the public dole. Is that why you spread around so much B.S. nowadays because you didn’t get a good old worthwhile All-American B.S. degree? Are you trying to overcome a sense of inadequacy by doing manly things like bow hunting and catfish noodling…hee hee. Sorry, hard to stay serious about that last one, but it is fun to say. Try it. Catfish noodling. Ha! Told you it was fun. Lordy, Lordy, I feel sorry for the poor secretary who has to say with a straight face, “I’m sorry Mr. Ambassador, but the Vice-President can’t see you now. He’s busy catfish noodling. Oh, it’s extremely urgent? The President? No sir, Mr. Ambassador. He’s unavailable as well. He’s on his daily tachyon streaming call to his superior on the Planet Kobol.”

…………………………………………

And, for all the Biden-bashers, let me remind you what a true featherweight V-P looks like. Forthwith, actual Quayleisms from the potatoe man (sic).

"We don't want to go back to tomorrow. We want to go forward."

"I understand the importance of bondage between parent and child."

"I love California. I practically grew up in Phoenix."

"It is wonderful to be here in the great state of Chicago."

"I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn't study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those people."

"Republicans have been accused of abandoning the poor. It's the other way around. They never vote for us."

"We lead in exporting jobs."

Hmmm….. There’s my answer. I guess Dan’s been hanging around with Mitt.

No Bain/No Pain 2012

How can the GOP claim to be for family values, when they try to destroy Medicare as we know it and throw granny under the bus.

All members of family are happier and more productive at work when we are sure our elders are safe and sound.

We do pitch in and help in time of need, but ending welfare as we know it through government fiat will endanger our families, putting more burdens on us.

Very thoughtful, David - especially the part about congress' 10% approval rating and the likelyhood of them retaining their seats. We complain about the do-nothing congress but what are WE doing to fix the problem?

Ah so Romney's going to flip-flop his potion in favor for his Vice President's position. :)

Glad to know Romney is a man of weak convictions. :D

Second, the alt group Silversun Pickups wants the Romney camp “to immediately stop the use of the rock group's song Panic Switch.

Dang...I like that song!! :-(

@Xadre -- The point is that none of this is an issue in politics but the left claims it is when it comes to Gov. Romney. Hypocrisy. Other than the lottery being replaced with being born into wealth that was created with hard work, the scenario is the same. If there are those who say no, then please explain why.

Ben -

The Romney/Ryan plan "saves" Medicare by taking away all the best parts of it and introducing additional administrative costs through "privitization".

There are no cost savings, only additioanl costs being transferred to future seniors.

Paul Ryan: The Deficit? I Built That!

@Xadre -- The point is that none of this is an issue in politics but the left claims it is when it comes to Gov. Romney. Hypocrisy. Other than the lottery being replaced with being born into wealth that was created with hard work, the scenario is the same. If there are those who say no, then please explain why.

Being born into wealth and winning the lottery are not the same. It's like comparing apples to oranges. First off, if I was born into wealth I never knew hard financial times and all the burdens it comes with. This also plays into your scenario of an "unemployed auto worker" as a probable winner.

Backhouse, great post.

It never ceases to amaze me how brazen the lies from the Republicans can be. I am very happy with my Medicare and the Supplemental Policy I pay for, in addition, I pay less for prescription drugs and my recent annual physical cost me nothing.

If the Romney/Ryan plans ever sees the light of day, and they can decide what it will be, it will affect seniors and anyone over forty is up the creek, no matter what they say.

Their final goal is to get rid of Medicare and Social Security and their plan will make that possible sooner rather than later.

Funny how GNOPers can spout anything without back-up..but when a Dem does it all holy heck breaks out...

GNOP -CAN'T HANDLE FACTS..THEY CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

NoJo, you post a link from a board member of the Club for Growth re GM? That is an unbiased article right?

“Romney senior adviser Ed Gillespie told CNN that he did not know when his candidate would balance the federal budget, the day after Rep. Paul Ryan said the campaign had not yet ‘run the numbers,’” Political Wire writes.

Good GAWD!

Does one hand know what the other one is doing within Team Willard?

Willard has been running for President for 10 years and they don't have an answer to a question as simple as THAT?

Have I mentioned how much I'm enjoying watching these so-called surrogates... SQUIRM?

Dear Mr. and Mrs. Romney, we no longer care about your Tax Returns, or your $77,000 tax write off for your Dancing Horse, or your offshore secret accounts where you hide your tax avoiding money. No, it's not important anymore. We've already figured out that your returns must contain such damaging information that it would be impossible to win "any" election let alone President of the United States of America. So goodbye Willard. No decent American is going to vote for you.

OBAMA IN 2012.

We've already figured out that your returns must contain such damaging information that it would be impossible to win "any" election let alone President of the United States of America. So goodbye Willard. No decent American is going to vote for you.

OBAMA IN 2012.

Amen Tom, They may be hiding a crime.

Medicare goes broke in 20 years with Obama's plan, which is to do nothing, so anyone under 45 will currently get nothing.

1) President Obama cut $700 billion from Medicare (hadn't you heard?). That's hardly "nothing." And these savings did not cut into healthcare benefits, unless you count the "silver sneakers" gym membership dues the government no longer pays for. I can't believe Romney is touting Medicare Advantage which has cost taxpayers more than regular Medicare, for nearly the same service - he likes it because it's increased profits in the private sector.

2) Romney's plan passes the "savings," acheived by privatizing Medicare insurance, on to the wealthiest in the form of tax cuts. Middleclass seniors would pay more for healthcare, the private insurers would make a bundle at their expense, and taxes, under Romney's plan, go up for the lower income Americans, and down for the wealthiest. How is this any kind of "solution?"

I may not be the best political strategist, but I think it would serve Obama well to have Hillary Clinton as his VP. Not only does it give him a slam-dunk with the womans vote, her foreign policy credentials outshine the Romney/Ryan ticket, she is extremely knowledgable about healthcare issues, and she won't be bullied by the likes of the GOP. Even better, the Clintons' are a two for one deal, because Bill will come along for the ride and he is still very well liked (remember the surplus?). Don't get me wrong, I like Joe Biden but I'm not sure what exactly he brings to the table here. He is useful as a front man but does anyone seriously believe he will seek the nomination in 2016? Since it is already presumed to be Hillary, why not cut the crap and get right to it. It may be in store for the convention, stay tuned...

Xabre -- So you mean that someone has to experience hard financial times to be qualified to run for office? There is a direct correlation between the scenario I made on wealth.

No, I'm saying there's a fundamental difference in mentalities between a person that has suffered economic hardship and a person that hasn't had to worry about money ever.

i saw part of the interveiw and anne romney said they give 10% of their income to charity, thats crazy, they give that money to their church like every other member of that church, its called a tithe, also the lds church rakes in 8 billion a year from tithes

FR:

And in that interview, Ann Romney declares -- once again -- that she and her husband won’t be releasing any tax returns prior to 2010. “We have been very transparent to what's legally required of us,” she said.

Anyone notice the tautology there? The law requires transparency. Romney couldn't be the nominee if he refused to comply with the minimum transparency required by law. Mrs. Romney is pretending that Mitt is doing us some big favor by doing what he is legally required to do.

ABT -- That percentage is actually pretty close to the capital gains tax rate. I am relying on the upstanding IRS to investigate properly or improperly filed tax returns -- and I know that this Chicago-land attack thugs of an administration would have already released leaked it. Having offshore accounts is not illegal. What is illegal is not reporting them. Remember the powerball winner now has those options available to him/her. Anything wrong with that?

@Xabre -- Well that's another issue and we can site many democrat presidents/candidates that were in the same situation as being born into wealth.

@Houston -- It is a sad situation in this country when a person is vilified for following the legal letter of the law. Your false standards are a disgrace to the founding principles of this country's laws. None of us like all of the laws but we have to learn to live with them or try to change them but that doesn't give any one the right to attack those who follow them.

The Obamacare savings slow the growth of Medicare over the next decade by, in part: eliminating overpayments to private insurers in Medicare Advantage,

That's a hoot, a real freaking hoot. How quickly the left forgets how the Obama people manipulated the rules to minimize the hit seniors enrolled in Medicare Advantage programs would get in an election year.

One of the provisions of Obamacare is to systematically reduce the government reimbursements to Medicare Advantage companies until the payments they receive are the same as what the government spends per beneficiary on traditional Medicare. In the long term the effect of that policy would be to effectively push Medicare Advantage companies out of the business, which is precisely the outcome envisioned by the left.

But in the short term the effect of this policy would have some undesirable political consequences by increasing the out of pocket costs paid by seniors who are currently enrolled in Medicare Advantage policies. That would be a problem in an election year because Medicare Advantage is a popular health care option among seniors with about 25% of the Medicare population signing up. Not to worry, HHS figured out a way to avoid the potential wrath of those voters.

What HHS did was design a Medicare Advantage "demonstration program" that effectively allows them to get around the Obamacare rules that would reduce the government reimbursements to participating companies. The way they do this is complicated and wonky, but the bottom line is the $8.3 billion this demonstration program is scheduled to spend will basically serve to reduce the increased costs seniors in Medicare Advantage programs would have otherwise been subjected to by Obamacare. Even more, according to GAO the largest reduction of 71% will occur in 2012, followed by 32% in 2013 and 16% in 2014. So the biggest benefit by far will accrue to seniors in…..an election year.

The open enrollment period when seniors can choose their health care option for the upcoming year begins on October 15, about three weeks before the election. With the Medicare Advantage "demonstration program" in place, the administration will dodge the bullet of seniors experiencing the sticker shock scheduled to be imposed on Medicare Advantage policies by Obamacare. That shock has instead been pushed into future years after the election, a shameless political stunt paid for by the taxpayer.

So while strangling Medicare Advantage may be a good thing the way the left views the world, it's just not quite a good enough thing to implement in an election year.

http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-409R

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/23/health/policy/gao-says-medicare-test-project-is-wasting-8-billion.html

@What happen -- Please provide the link that shows where the Romney's donations go to. Also, what is wrong where they choose to donate their money? I believe that is every American's right.

Besides, maybe you ought to look up the contributions that the Romneys make to the MS and Cancer societies.

"Obama's dead and the American auto industry is alive"

Illinois Democratic Governor Pat Quinn. - 2012/08/15

Source: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-08-15/news/ct-met-democrat-day-state-fair-20120816_1_state-workers-pension-systems-pat-quinn

Joe has competition.

Caesar

There is a few on the
left that seem to have more civility then most on here. I appreciate the attempt at civil discourse. With that said The libsrus crew are certainly
steaming piles of sh*t as far as im concerned.

Thanks for the civility lesson.

Joe has competition.

But Palin still has none.

All the Conservative posters seemed to like Ben's "Cut and Paste", so let's look at some of the points a little closer:

Nothing changes for current seniors or those nearing retirement – those 55 and above – and those nearing 55 will have more options and/or can stay under the current system.

They can stay under the current system, but as pointed out below they are responsible for any additional costs - I would hardly say that qualifies as "nothing changes" from the current system!

Medicare is reformed as a premium support system, meaning that existing spending is repackaged as a fixed-amount benefit to each senior that he or she can use to purchase an insurance plan.

"Existing Spending is repacked" equals "voucher equal to CURRENT COSTS"

All insurance plans must offer coverage at least comparable to what Medicare provides today.

I would like to see their definition of comparable.....

If seniors choose more expensive plans, they will have to pay the difference between the support amount and the premium price; if they choose less expensive plans, they can use any leftover support to pay other medical expenses like co-pays and deductibles.

Some healthier Seniors may find a "cheaper" plan - of course this creates a multi-tiered system of winners and losers, based partially on habits and partially on genetic lottery.

“Traditional” fee-for-service Medicare will be offered by the government as an insurance plan, meaning that seniors can purchase that form of coverage if they prefer it; however, if it costs the government more to provide that service than it costs private plans to offer their versions, then the premiums charged by the government will have to be higher and seniors will have to pay the difference to enroll in the traditional Medicare option.

See my point above - future Seniors are on the hook for any additional costs, even if they choose to "Medicare" as their insurance provider.

Lower income seniors will receive more generous support to ensure that they can afford coverage; wealthier seniors will receive less support.

I am not opposed to this concept, but the "devil is in the details" - how are lower income and wealthier seniors classified?

Competition among plans to provide high quality service while charging low premiums will hold costs down while also improving the quality of coverage enjoyed by seniors.

This is where the math falls apart. It is a proven fact that Medicare administrative costs are over 50% lower than private insurers - so administrative costs will have to go up.

If, as Conservatives claim, doctors are not accepting patients because Medicare payments are too low, private insurers will have to increase payments to doctors in order for them to accept their "Medicare" plan.

So if both administrative costs and payments to doctors increase, while the "vouchers" are at the current spending levels, who pays for this newly-created "gap"? Based on the program detailed above, it will be the future Seniors.

So the "fix" to Medicare is to introduce additional costs into the system and transfer those costs to future Seniors, while creating a complex multi-tiered system of coverage?

Paul Ryan: The Deficit? I Built That!

Romney/Ryan: Medicare? We Can Fix End That!

Clearly there is something in his tax returns that would disqualify Mitt Romney, with the voters, to be President and could cause him to not get the nomination.

Then why isn't there an ongoing investigation by either the IRS or the justice department?.....answer; because it's all just election year hyperbole.

If these kinds of allegations can be stated about Romney, then likewise, we should also discuss Obama's criminal behavior.

Obama bought his house in Kenwood-Chicago in a deal that was brokered by a convicted felon. Obama also has ties to the weather underground through one of his best friends.

If Romney's tax returns, about which there has been no accusation of wrongdoing from the IRS nor the Justice Department, can be made into an "issue", then Obama's ties to political racketeers and organized crime should also be an issue.

After all; what's good for one, is good for the other....no?

Ben-636050

It is a sad situation in this country when a person is vilified for following the legal letter of the law.

It is a sad day when someone like Ann Romney pretends there's something exceptionally virtuous about obeying the letter of the law. Speaking of the law, the reason why Romney may be refusing to release his tax returns because they would show he had to take an amnesty offered to wealthy tax cheats for hiding their income from the IRS. Whatever it is, there's obviously something in his tax records that would utterly destroy Romney's chances of winning the election.

TN -- Good questions with some talking points issued to the left. I am looking forward to the debate -- a plan on the table versus a no plan and/or kick the can down the road plan. The system is going broke and something needs to be done.

ZMan,

I never said Mitt did anything illegal or in violation of IRS rules and regulations.

If he paid zero taxes that can be fully legal, if he took an amnesty deal then he is within the law. However like I said, in the eyes of the voters it may disqualify him.

I did not say he would be legally disqualified.

@Houston -- Someone like Ann Romney??? Someone like Ann Romney??? Really. Your choice of words is disgusting and not appropriate for a lady that has faced cancer and now is battling MS. A good wife and mother who raised 5 upstanding sons. You are pathetic.

It is also pathetic when you look upon obeying the letter of the law anything other than being virtuous. Obeying the law is the American way.

Good morning First Thoughts. My fellow libs again did a great job posting facts while the other side posted Mitt and Paul's whopper lies. Does Romney not understand that people do not like whiners whether it is Mitt or Ann? Whine, whine and more whine--while Mitt runs nothing but negative, lie-filled, attack ads, he whines about President Obama. It's so typical Rove-style politics--accuse the demorats of doing what the republicans actually are doing. We're on to you Mitt, Ann, Paul and Karl.

What a wonderful day I had yesterday. This Iowan had the great pleasure of attending the Davenport Obama Rally as a VIP; it was an honor and a privilege to shake President and Mrs. Obama's hands and listen to the conversation! It was an exciting day and one I will never forget.

Pigotry

How can the GOP claim to be for family values, when they try to destroy Medicare as we know it and throw granny under the bus.

Medicare as we know it is going to end, or all of us are going to see very significant tax increases. Even taxing the 1% at 100% will not cover the projected Medicare deficits.

I'm fine with people disagreeing with Ryan's approach, but only if they produce a viable alternative proposal. Sticking our heads in the sand is not going to make this problem go away.

"Obama's dead and the American auto industry is alive"

Illinois Democratic Governor Pat Quinn. - 2012/08/15

Source:

Joe has competition.

____________________________________________

JAS1: My money will always be bet on Joe "Gaffe" Biden. He's such a moron, it's a sure thing that he will say the stupiest thing of the day.

Bill in Fairfax -- Here's an excellent article that CLEARLY shows what our health care would be like under the ROMNEY/RYAN plan. EVERYONE should read this. Private Equity came in and changed the way a group of hospitals did business. They played fast and loose with billing Medicare, increasing their profits dramatically on governments dime. Care was set aside in favor of PROFITS.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/15/business/hca-giant-hospital-chain-creates-a-windfall-for-private-equity.html?pagewanted=all

Great post, Bill. Democrats are in denial about the fact that their party is responsible for gutting the Medicare program denying seniors quality healthcare and all for the POS ACA.

After robbing the Medicare trust fund, a process that will be in full effect by 2014, they have effecively reduced the benefits available to all seniors. Because of the fungibility of money, this is not a change only to the providers of the Medicare Advantage program as they assert, but instead affects all participants in any program that is governed by DSHS.

The bottom line is that the federal government will be allocating $716 billion less to DSHS over the next ten years and justify this by claiming that they will realize an equal amount of savings by paying the Advantage providers less money. All that DSHS knows is that it now has less money in it's budget and because of this it has been systematically reducing benefits accross the board. They began doing this two years ago when the ACA passed.

It is hardly surprising that seniors, a demographic that should be strongly in the Democrats collumn come election time, have been steadily moving to the right.

@Texan

So if the tax code is so abusive why was it not top of the democratic agenda in January 2009. In fact why was it not changed in 2007 and at least push George W Bush to veto the change?

You know I could say the exact same thing about these "voter id" laws, right?

Romney/Ryan goes on the offensive by spewing more lies. I find that offensive!

Don't Screw with My Medicare!!! This comment is directed toward thick skulled Republicans who don't like European Socialist schemes even though their health portion of GDP is substantially less than our, what is it, 18%? Gotta keep that money flowing to the ruling class. The swine.

From Anne Romney - "There will be no more taxes released. It will just give them more ammunition."

You just did dummy!

Obama/Biden 2012

Last year democrats praised Ryan on his budget proposal. Obamas co chair for fiscal responsibility Erskine Bowles said this about Paul Ryan..

"I always thought that I was okay with arithmetic. [Paul] can run circles around me, and he is honest, he is straightforward, he is sincere. And the budget that he came forward with is just like Paul Ryan. It is a sensible, straightforward, honest, serious budget and it cut the budget deficit just like we did, by $4 trillion... The President came out with his own plan and the President, as you remember, came out with a budget, and I don't think anybody took that budget very seriously. The Senate voted against it 97 to nothing. He, therefore, after a lot of pressure from folks like me, he came out with a new budget framework, and in that new budget framework, he cut the budget deficit by $4 trillion over 12 years. And, to be candid, this $4 trillion cut was very heavily back-end loaded. So, if you looked at it on a 10-year basis and compared apples-to-apples, it really was about a two and a half trillion dollar cut."

Democrats are fickle friends.

Ben -

TN -- Good questions with some talking points issued to the left. I am looking forward to the debate -- a plan on the table versus a no plan and/or kick the can down the road plan. The system is going broke and something needs to be done

I am not sure if that was a back-handed compliment or a dismissal of my points.

For the record none of my statements came from "talking points issued to the left". I am an accountant by education, a businessman by trade, and I am in my late forties with relatives and friends in their fifties. I take this very seriously, and have investigated both plans thoroughly.

Medicare and Social Security are NOT broken, although they are facing some significant future funding issues. Both could be made solvent for several years with some minor "tweaks" - slight increase in tax rates and caps combined with some gradual increases in the qualifying age and "means-testing".

Both programs would also benefit from a healthy economy and a thriving middle-class, neither of which Romney/Ryan has a plan for. You may not like President Obama or his economic policies, but until Republicans agree to tax reform they are not getting my consideration.

The difference between the Obama Medicare cuts and Ryan Medicare cuts are:

Obama cuts will be used to pay for those who don't have health insurance

Ryan cuts will go to pay for more tax cuts for the rich

Health care, will be the issue that decides the next election;obama-care, did not address the problems, only shifted the burden to health-care providers and private insurance groups, such as Advantage is designed to shift the burden to the middle class workers, in order to pay for Medicaid and Illegals in the country(yes the bill says so, illegals are covered under Obama-care Thur Medicaid).

if the GOP comes up with a real proposal, they win if not they lose.

In a state that has been hard hit by the Obama economy,

LOL..... have you ever been to Michigan? Or did you just throw this out there because it fits your argument well?

I was born in, raised in and reside in MI. Believe me, Obama policies are not what hit our state hard. Hardly would be a better word.

In fact, if you want to get down to it..... raw capitalism and free trade are the parties responsible for Michigan's hardships. Big manufacturing being allowed to off shore production without penalty was a big issue. It siphoned jobs, tax base and infrastructure spending out of the system. All in the name of profits and the bottom line.

We we're left with blue collar unemployed cities. And lot's of them.

Why don't you keep your generalizations and assumptions in your own state? We don't need any more crap here.

Bayllie sounds like communism to me. Big fan of Karl Marx eh? oh wait im on ignore LOL.

Because of the fungibility of money...

Deadbeat

You Democrats really need to understand this concept. It doesn't matter where you say the cuts are coming from, the bottom line is that there is less money in the Medicare system, so it does indeed affect all seniors.

Obama’s $716 billion cuts affect hospitals, insurers, nursing homes, drug companies and other service providers.....NOT Medicare’s 48 million beneficiaries.

Did you bother reading Bill's post? This is simple supply and demand. The hospitals, insurers, nursing homes, drug companies and other service providers will not be willing to provide their goods and services for the reduced price and the seniors will be forced to use other means, presumably through Medicare, to fill the gap. None of this will change the fact that Medicare in it's entirety will suffer a $716 billion reduction in it's overall budget. Get it now?

LET THE SWIFT-BOATING BEGIN!

In 2004 we had a man in the White House who spent his military career in a country club reserve unit working on political campaigns while other people's sons and daughters went to Viet Nam. His powerful father, a future President himself, got that plum assignment for his oldest son to keep him out of the Viet Nam War.

In 2004 the opposition party had a candidate who was a bona fide, decorated war veteran and hero. A man wounded in combat. A man who dove into a muddy river in South Viet Nam, under fire, to save a wounded comrade.

A country club chicken hawk vs. a decorated war hero.

Then the Swifboating began and a wounded, decorated hero's military record was mis-represented and distorted beyond all belief. Why? Not because is wasn't true. It was because when he was honorably discharged and returned home he became an anti-war activist and that offended some of his fellow Swift Boat veterans. His service and his record were tarnished. All in the name of politics.

Here we are, four years later, and the man in White House may have saved the world from depression. He got meaningful healthcare reform passed and signed into law and he was able to bag Osama Bin Laden the architect of the 9/11 tragedy, in a little under three years. Something his predecessor couldn't do in more than 7 years.

And here come the Swiftboaters to distort, misrepresent and denigrate this singular accomplishment.

SHAME! SHAME ON YOU!

American politics HAS become toxic. When good, honest, men and women are viciously attacked with falsehoods and misrepresentations all in the name of politics.

SHAME! SHAME ON YOU!

I don't want to hear you whining about doing the same thing to Romney. His tax returns, his Bain capitol years which he touts as a reason to vote for him and his off-shore tax shelters are ALL valid point of discussion and are not the same thing at all.

I am ashamed to live in a country where this type of political swiftboating is acceptable behavior. I am ashamed to be part of a citizenry who seemingly can't see through this behavior for what it really is. I am ashamed of a system that would allow this type of deception and disrespect.

The man in the White House ordered the assassination of a terrorist EVERYONE OF US wanted to see killed or captured. That accomplishment is indisputable.

What have we become and what will become of us if we allow this to continue?

Obama/Biden 2012

Obama Cares!

@Ben-636050

here you go retard the link for something she has said in public, and by the way, most of their money goes there

Romney claims the President is "angry and divisive". Actually It's Romney that's attempting to deflect His "anger and divisiveness" onto the President. Ann Romney has effectively taken all issues and arguments heretofore contained in both campaigns totally away from viable public discourse, with her announcement about Her, and Her husbands taxes and business information. The woman,s adamancy tells the American people there are revelations contained therein that would totally destroy the legitimacy of Her husband as a law abiding US citizen, and would certainly destroy the legitimacy of Willard Romneys candidacy. There is something terribly wrong, highly illegal, and awesomely feared of revelation, with the Romneys business records. Both can deflect until the fires of hell yield to ice castles, but the central theme of this campaign must now become "the illegitimacy of Willard Romney" as a Presidential candidate.

Alan NJ:

The filibuster numbers have been posted here many times, and its easily found to confirm for yourself. But what should we expect from someone who is not interested in facts, nor is able to remember facts given to them repeatedly.

“There's going to be no more tax releases given." Mrs. Romney said if they release any more information, "it will only give them more ammunition."

I thought there was "nothing to hide"? What kind of ammunition would that be, then?

There is a 15 member board of unelected government officials called the Independent Payment Advisory Board that wields supreme power to say what does and does not get paid under the ObamaCare law. Won't it be funny to see the look on all those liberal faces when they realize that when a Republican is in the White House, they get to fill that board. ObamaCare will fast become one of the biggest political footballs ever created. Liberals thought ObamaCare meant they could always get their way, not.

Teaparty Low IQ

Breaking News

Ann Romney says that They give 10 % to charity and that Mitt will not release anymore tax information, Well just breaking now is that Juanita Romney Mitts 3rd wife who lives in Mexico said she would be happy to give her Husbands Tax Returns, and that the 10% That Ann Donates goes ONLY to the MORMON church, nothing for Christians

speaking of low IQ, you realize mormons are christian right.

Wow.....

Wow is right. Because I enjoy beating my head against the wall, I'm going to give this one last try.

You can tell the public that you are cutting the Medicare budget because of expected savings from cutting payments to the providers of the Advantage program or because of waste and fraud or whatever the latest Democratic excuse is, but until these savings are actually realized, they are only THEORETICAL. Unfortunately for seniors using Medicare, the actual budget cuts are REAL. To seniors and to the people in charge of administration of the Medicare program, your excuses for stealing money from their trust fund are irrelevant. All that they know is that they will have less money to pay the bills with and are making the necessary cuts to deal with that reality.

Some food for thought, Deadbeat. If you were responsible for your elderly mother's trust fund and you found yourself in court for stealing money from that fund, do you really think that the judge would buy the excuse that you took money from it because you planned to pay her health care providers less?

The GOP/Tea Bangers have filibustered Obama more in the in the past 4 years, than all of the past 50 yrs combined!!!

This statement is false. While the filibuster has increased since Obama took office, it's an overstatement to suggest the GOP has used it more than the last 50 years combined. Please provide an non-partisan source to back up your claim please.

During the Clinton years, cloture the procedure used to break a filibuster, was used on average, 40 to 50 times per year. During the Bush I years it jumped to an average of about 60 times per year and has made slight increases since. It did dramatically jump about 100 times/yr, since Obama took office. It doesn't mean that a filibuster was necessarily being used more often during previous administrations, it just means the majority party decided to fight the filibuster more often. It takes about 30 hours of Senate time and 60 votes for cloture.

This isn't a progressing problem and won't decline this fall when the GOP takes over the Senate and the minority party starts using filibusters.

skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City

did you see the video of Failin Palin saying how she couldn't think of a Republican who makes similar comments as often as Biden.

And then Jon Stewart plays a little clip of Failin Palin speeches?

The most vicious hypocrite cannot think of a Republican that makes mean comments - It's comical!

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/jon-stewart-sarah-palin-joe-biden-chains-comments-wall-street-2012-8#ixzz23isUCH7t

TO: Ben-636050 who wrote:

"Did you know that under the Romney/Ryan approach to saving Medicare for generations to come..."

You don't know what Medicare is, do you? It's PREPAID medical insurance for the elderly, that we've been paying for IN ADVANCE all our working lives.

When Republicans try to turn our prepaid health insurance into a coupon for 10% off of the purchase of health insurance that is NOT what any sane person would call"saving Medicare for generations to come" in fact, stealing my health insurance and replacing it with a coupon AIN'T NO CARE AT ALL!

Obama/Biden 2012

Sorry BentBrass -- Your MATH is sketchy. This Congress is the least productive EVER thanks to the HOUSE of REPRESENTATIVES where the majority is held by REPUBLICANS.

TIME to VOTE those OBSTRUCTIONISTS out of their cushy GOVERNMENT JOBS!!!!

Julkie

I thought there was "nothing to hide"? What kind of ammunition would that be, then?

Ann Romney either:

a) doesn't understand the meaning behind the "ammunition" analogy or

b) is actually telling the truth by admitting there is a smoking gun in the tax returns

I'm 62 and safe for now from the rapacious republicons, but others in my family are not. I care about my family and want the best for them, and giving more of our hard earned money to some billionaires so that they can sock it away in foreign countries is not in our best interest.

Romney is a serial liar, a thief, and most likely took that amnesty for rich tax cheats a few years ago.

Obama is not the best for me and mine, but he is clearly superior to that steaming pile of Mitt.

Ben-636050

@Houston -- It is a sad situation in this country when a person is vilified for following the legal letter of the law. Your false standards are a disgrace to the founding principles of this country's laws

It's a sad day when idiots like you set such a laughably low standard for Romney when President Obama has released his tax returns for 12 years. Romney is hiding his returns because they would reveal either smelly foreign investments, ridiculously low tax payments, amnesty for felonious tax evasion, or some combination of the three.

Ann just announced that Mitt couldn't do it without her....YIKES>>>SHE IS NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT..... MITTSTER IS!....Wow ...he is so not able to do it on his own, run the country....Mittster is not capable of running the country per Ann...on his own......YIKES!!! The Mittster is Ann's dancing pony!!!

Jody, how great that you got to shake hands with the Obamas.

You were representing all of us. Thank you.

So many fools want to excuse Romneys refusal to reveal his tax returns by using explainations such as; 'the IRS doesn't have a problem with 'em, etc. That doesn't mean a damn thing. Romney, as many cheats do, presented a well done, perfectly legal appearing return, containing well constructed "shams". This is especially easy when one is involved in the type business Romney was in. Money constantly moving, tax credits, bankruptcies, apperance of other peoples money used and paid back. Filing low ball amounts, keeping and/or sharing the balances, and none reporting any of it. Finally, transferring retained funds to off shore accounts, one can , if one chooses, screw our government like a good looking $2.00 whore on a half off sale day. Those who claim different don't know any better, or, are just plain liars.

The Romneys and the dressage horse they rode in on can go straight to Hades, and they can take that sociopathic Ayn Rand acolyte along with them. The day I vote for Romney is the day Kolob freezes over.

Sorry, in my rant above I should have said "...and here we are EIGHT years later..." not four years as above.

I had an emergency call out just as I was finishing the post and had to drop everything. I didn't get an opportunity to proof it before I punched "post".

Obama/Biden 2012

Annie,

About your comment "there will be no more tax releases".

I have one thing to say, phuck you and the horse you rode in on.

Romney and Ryan 2012

Keep America alive.

We have been very transparent to what's legally required of us,” she said. “There's going to be no more tax releases given." Mrs. Romney said if they release any more information, "it will only give them more ammunition."

Hahahaha; normally I'm not one to attack candidates' spouses, but after hearing the @!$%# about Michelle Obama, I'm going on ahead. Keep up the good work, Ann Romney; hiding those tax returns because we the peasants aren't good enough to see them!!

The problem I see with Mitt Romney not releasing his tax returns is twofold; first, it opens up allegations of what he is hiding. He may be hiding a felony, large numbers of tax shelters holding his cash, or paying an effective rate around 0% during the cataclysmic Great Recession, where millions of Americans lost their jobs yet did not have the personal safety net that Romney had. In addition, Romney having overseas tax shelters would harm his image as a patriotic American and condemn him as a hypocrite, as he criticized Obama for having foreign and un-American beliefs and for "not believing in America's exceptionalism" while he himself questioned America's trustworthiness to the point of storing money in tax shelters overseas. Not to mention the fact that he is breaking the very precedent that his own father set years ago; how can we elect a guy who won't even respect the precedent that generations of candidates, including his own father, have adhered to.

The second problem with Romney not revealing his tax returns goes to his personality; it makes people doubt both his integrity (if he has any left) and his perception of the American people. It's impossible to employ someone who won't give you their records; why is it any easier to employ the President of the United States??? In addition, it appears that Mitt Romney (and his wife Ann, to some degree) believes that we the people, we the commoners, do not deserve to see Mitt's tax returns. After all, Republicans and conservatives alike have deified the wealthiest Americans as job creators, always to be worshiped and never to be questioned. Perhaps Romney has deified himself, believing that those who he might serve as President do not deserve to see his personal records, for they are a lowly and despicable race. We cannot give Mitt Romney a break just because he is wealthy. We cannot. It goes against the very core of American beliefs; that all men deserve equal treatment and are equal in the eyes of society. Just because Romney is a man of power and wealth does not make him above us. If he has the right to become our leader, we have an equal or even greater right to know about his personal history.

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

"Strengthening Medicare", article for you:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/medicarefraudchart_printready_0.pdf

All of you are f ing stupid. He pays more in taxes for one year than your whole family will make combined forever. Also, he made his fortune after about 25 years of service without pay. He worked for his father, mission work, and countless other selfless service. What have you people done? You judge a man based on info that doesn't have a source and the word of Harry Reid, a lying, dirty politician. What about Obama? He repaid his donors with tax payer bailout money. Every green firm he's bailed out has failed and not before awarding their top executives with lavish bonuses. Double standard's are not becoming liberals and the American people see.

LMAO! Listening to Dems you'd think the economy is booming right now instead of in the middle of the worst recovery since the Great Depression.

Listening to these idiots on the right you realize that they forgot it was their policies that tanked the economy to begin with.

Backhouse is speechless .... amid the barrage of GOP nonsense!!

Words are powerless when common sense is thrown out of the door by the GOP.

You liberals are all so dramatic. Calm down and try to have a rational conversation for a change.

FR:

And here’s People: “But Obama, speaking to PEOPLE in Dubuque, Iowa, seemed unrattled by the controversy. He said Biden's words needed to be considered in context; that he was only saying ‘you, consumers, the American people, will be a lot worse off if we repeal these [Wall Street reform] laws as the other side is suggesting.’”

How many more days will the corporate media pretend this is a big controversy, just because the Republicans tell them it is? It was only a few days before that when the Republican National Committee chairman asserted that President Obama "has blood on his hands" because of Medicare cuts. Not only was Preibus' comment totally out of line, but it was also a vicious lie, because it's been well established that Obama Medicare cuts do NOT affect seniors at all.

But yet, that went by the media without the false outrage the media herd has worked up about Biden's perfectly reasonable use of metaphore to describe what will happen to us if Romney and Ryan succeed in "unchaining" the predators of Wall Street to once again prey on the nation's economy. (And no, I don't mean the Wall Street people will start eating babies. It's a METAPHORE, even if "journalists" aren't quite bright enough to know what that is.)

maybe my comprehension is off Deadbeat, but i read Joannas statement and I'm pretty sure that's not the case. In fact i think the meaning was the opposite. Spend less time reading family circus you might understand more

JAS1-

In honor of Abraham Lincoln, here are a few of his quotes:

A woman is the only thing I am afraid of that I know will not hurt me.

Allow the president to invade a neighboring nation, whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such a purpose - and you allow him to make war at pleasure.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth.

How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.

I care not much for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it.

I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts.

It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues.

No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar.

- Abraham Lincoln

And two of my favorites:

Republicans are for both the man and the dollar, but in case of conflict the man before the dollar.

Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right.

- Abraham Lincoln

How far the current Republicans have strayed from the wisdom of this great man!

Paul Ryan: The Deficit? I Built That!

Romney/Ryan: Medicare? We Can Fix End That!

Well yeah, he obviously wasn't a real republican because if he was we wouldn't be in the boat we're in today right Jo Ann? (wink, wink followed by secret racist handshake.)

Well first of all Caesar I wouldn't classify myself as being from the left, at least as far left as some commentors on here or from the farther to right that most right wingers on here seem to be. I dont know anything about O/R/P backdoor meetings to buy votes however since you asked I'm assuming you have the minutes or some other kind of evidence to these and maybe you can enlighten me. Secondly wth does lack of "negro dialect" even mean ? As to the last you know as well as I do it was a metaphor Joe was using. He chose poorly in his presentation of it. ooops

Caesar, isn't that the racist message we see displayed in this sign carried by none other than Dale Robertson, one of the founders of the Tea Party and operator of Teaparty.org?

http://www.motherjones.com/slideshows/2010/09/tea-partys-racist-signs/niggar

http://washingtonindependent.com/73036/n-word-sign-dogs-would-be-tea-party-leader

The choice of wording was poor? but not racist right? riiiiiiiiggght

Mitt Rommey wrote $77,000 off his taxes for the upkeep of Ann's horse in 2010.

That's more than my family of four lived off of - for three years!

And I paid taxes on mine.

i explained it Greg but dont let reality get in the way of your agenda. Proceed ignorantly

@julkie...what income tax are you paying on that income?

If Obama was a Musketeer, his motto would be "one for me and all for me." Obama will say anything to try and convince everyone that he actually has done something. Which is guaranteed to work on all liberals.

We have already paid in advance for our Medicare, and they're obviously not willing to give us our money back with all the interest we've earned on the money, so the only reason Republicans are fussing over our prepaid health care is because they want to take it away from us, AFTER we've already paid for it!

Uh, no. No thanks Republicans.

Obama/Biden 2012

lulu98 - I pay state income tax in addition to 7.65% payroll taxes.

UNLIKE Mitt Romney, who paid 0% payroll taxes on his "carried interest" "earnings".

But the fundamental difference, he said taxpayers...

Fail, Caesar. The fundamental point is that, using Robertson's hateful reasoning, taxpayers have fallen to level of African-Americans, but he used a poorly spelled racial epithet instead of African-American. This bigoted attitude is widely embraced by the Tea Party and it helps to explain why the movement has decreased from 1000 chapters in 2010 down to 600 and is continuing to crumble.

You are doing a bad job of defending racism, Caesar. Shame.

Slow down Caesar, take a deep breath....come back to reality.

Pigotry,

Most amusing. And every time I see your name, I 'bout bust a gasket.

There are a few hilarious names on all sides of the aisle - just whichever/either way you look at them.

TO: in the middle-2260511 who wrote:

"You liberals are all so dramatic. Calm down and try to have a rational conversation for a change."

It's hard to have a conversation with Republicans who have absolutely no memory, accept absolutely no responsibility, don't believe in paying the debt they create, and think the answer to everything is either a "tax cut" or another foreign war.

Obama/Biden 2012

TO: Ben-636050 who wrote:

"Did you know that under the Romney/Ryan approach to saving Medicare for generations to come..."

You don't know what Medicare is, do you?

It's PREPAID medical insurance for the elderly, that we've been paying for IN ADVANCE all our working lives.

When Republicans try to turn our prepaid health insurance into a coupon for 10% off of the purchase of health insurance, that is NOT what any sane person would call "saving Medicare for generations to come" in fact, stealing my prepaid health insurance and replacing it with a coupon to buy a brand new health insurance policy after we turn 65 years old AIN'T NO CARE AT ALL!

Obama/Biden 2012

Interesting that Mitt's wife Ann thinks that releasing more tax returns will give more ammunition to the opposition.

Exactly what kind of ammunition might be in those tax returns? If the IRS was okay with them, what the hell are they afraid of? As I've said before, wealth is not the issue here -- many of us just feel there is something being hidden and that erodes trust.

Hey Mitt, you craven wimp, lay it on the table and put an end to the conversation!

"Ryan-care" sucks if you are 54 or younger.

"CBO projected that under Ryan’s plan, the government would pay 39 percent of the cost of a private insurance plan in 2022 and 32 percent in 2030."

http: // factcheck.org/2011/04/ryans-muddy-medicare-claims/

So now let's do the math . . . If "Ryan-care" provides a voucher for 8K and that is equivalent to 39%, then it means that retirees will have to foot over 12.5K a year (in 2022 and more later) if there is an insurance that will cover them. Remember that in the Ryan plan, no insurance company is being required to cover the elderly or people with pre-existing conditions.

Gingerbread Mamma:

..............ATTENTION...!!!!..............EYES...RIGHT.....!!!!...........SALUTE!!!!........................

...............................................STAND....AT.....EASE...................................................

Gingerbread Mamma!!!! ...........you've, just received a 21 gun salute.............keep up the great work.

I see Romney has a new skirt on today. I wonder if he changed his panties

Mitt has said that 99.5% of his money is in American enterprises. If that is true, then what little we do know about Mitts foreign enterprises says that he is worth $6 Billion!

Does that steaming pile of Mitt even know how to tell the truth?

Ceasar: I would call the republican/tea party mantra of foreigner, unamerican, not one of us, Marxism, Muslim, Socialist, Communist, any other brand name, on the order of racist. Since when, have any republican/tea party associate asked for Mitt Romney's or Paul Ryan's birth certificate, school records/transcripts, passport, etc......I would call those things racist...calling into question the right of Obama's citizenship and patriotism. Racist comments have usually been veiled and ambiguous at best since the sixties.

Face it, the republican brand has lost it's luster, and can't even define it's self anymore. The Romney/Ryan team can't even get it together on what they are running on and whose plan is to be promoted. Doesn't sound like a great vetting process to me, and what exactly are they going to do to help the middle class; hint, they don't even know to this day.

Rick either you shut off the Disney channel or leave the grown up discussions.

Jesus...christ......

Romney Ryan for a worse tomorrow today.

Romney Ryan motto, "Tippecanoe and Tyler too, I've got mine and I want yours too!

I couldn't pass up this insane take on reality:

JoAnnaSmith1

ADT: Time for you GOP/Tea Bangers to start building The Bush Institution, to go along with The Hoover Institution at Stanford. You guys always seem to honor your biggest losers, don't you?

Sure, that Lincoln Memorial on the west end of the Washington Mall has got to go.

Uh, don't you know your history? The republicanism of Abraham Lincoln took form in his opposition to the "States Rights" approach of his political counterparts of the time. Lincoln wanted the United States to be a whole entity, "The Republic" which Benjamin Franklin referred to in the famous quote, and fought all of his opponents taking the Union to war to ensure all of the citizens of the United States would be afforded the same rights, not just some rights in some states and other rights in other states (States Rights).

In my opinion, this was what makes Lincoln the GREATEST American President; his taking on of the forces of his opponents and ensuring the endurance of the "Republic of the United States" rather than putting the country on track to be an "organization of confederate states".

120 years later, Ronald Reagan went to Philadelphia Mississippi and gave his famous "States Rights" speech in which he opened up old DIVISIVE wounds, in an obtuse attempt to draw the "dixiecrats" into the Republican voters column. By using the age old dog whistle of "States Rights" meaning he would stand FOR any legislation which undid portions of the 1964 civil rights act and 1965 voters rights act. Of course, this was all a signal to 1980s U.S. citizens that the Republican party would no longer stand up for Federal or republican (yes with a small "r") ideas such as Social Security or Medicare. Furthermore, they would start to introduce legislation that would push for "States Rights" such as "Right to work for less" laws, and ability to have different concealed carry laws for individual states, and "reform" laws directly related to State disbursements (such as unemployment benefits rules).

So, unless I misunderstood your intention, the current Republican party would no more allow Abraham Lincoln in it's ranks as they would allow Hugo Chavez in its ranks. So, to claim Lincoln, and more importantly, his impact on the contruct of these United States, as a REPUBLICAN ideal is not just silly, but LAUGHABLE!

in the middle-2260511

"You liberals are all so dramatic. Calm down and try to have a rational conversation for a change."

Is this a sample of what you call a rational conversation?

How about you say a few rational words we can reply to. Like perhaps why you favor whatever view you have instead of the usual Right Wing response?

"Oh you Libs."

This is a democracy which means the majority rules. How about the Right gets back to supporting a democracy?

15% U6 unemployment means 23 million of the civilian workforce are not paying taxes, let alone earning enough to make ends meet, and that's about double the number under Bush II until things began declining in 2006 when Democrats seized control of both Houses of Congress. That's an extra 12 million bread winners in deep trouble under Obama than under Bush.

U6 peaked at 16.9% in November 2010 and is improved slightly since 70 Democrats were unseated by Republicans in the House. Had Republicans not gained control of the House in 2010, U6 unemployment would be 25% by now.

Robbing Medicare of $716 Billion by Obama in 2009 and touting it in national media taped interviews does not help Obama convince anybody that Republicans are the ones that are trashing Medicare. Clearly Obama took 2.5% of everybody's Social Security to have seed money for ObamaCare.

President Obama has added 5 trillion to the dept. Adding that much dept is irresponsible and unpatriotic. Obama has killed the Medicare advantage program and has cut back over 700 billion in other medicare programs. HE cut medicare to pay for the ACA those are facts!! You can try to spin this how ever you want Obama killed medicare not the Reps.

Mike Mathias

President Obama has added 5 trillion to the dept. Adding that much dept is irresponsible and unpatriotic. Obama has killed the Medicare advantage program and has cut back over 700 billion in other medicare programs. HE cut medicare to pay for the ACA those are facts!!

First of all, Obama only increased the debt by around $4.7 trillion, and only around $1.5 trillion were because of his policies. Secondly, Bush raised the debt by around $5.5 trillion. So how come I haven't heard you calling Bush unpatriotic??? Thirdly, the only reason why debt has increased so much under Obama is because of the RECESSION; in case you were doodling in Econ 101, revenues FALL and spending RISES when recessions happen. Fourth, Obama only eliminated the over-payments to Medicare Advantage and made cuts on the provider side; he did not reduce benefits. And finally, Ryan also cuts $716 billion from Medicare; but instead of using it to pay for a program that will insure tens of millions of Americans like Obama did (and make Medicare solvent), Ryan used that $716 billion to pay for massive tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. Check and mate, now king me.

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

julkie - So your one of the 49% that pay no federal income taxes. So tell us all about the Earn Income Credit you get every year even though you didn't earn it. Know wonder your an Obama supporter got to make sure your federal gravy train isn't stopped.

One of the most eloquent posts I have read since being on board GBM.

Good morning Gingerbread, GREAT!

Thank you blackcatwhitecat, coming from you that is high praise. I so enjoy your posts. Continued good health to you.....keep following those doctor orders!

Ryan is drawing huge crowds and over-shadowing Romney.

Furthermore, Romney has changed his "Medicare Plan" more than Heinz has pickles..........

Excellent post Gingerbread Mamma. Very well done.

Nojo.......thanks for proving my point.

Eloquent? Interesting characterization.

Gingerbread Mamma,

You know when Snookie-Joe drops a pile of venom on your porch...

... you've hit a HOME RUN!

Excellent comment!

Ron and Job1 thank you for the kind words. You both offer excellent points each and every day which I very much appreciate.

Have a great day!

Gingerbread ,,,,,,, YES .

no joe, no bo, nj

Eloquent? Interesting characterization.

Read more like whine.

As you find JAS1 to be eloquent, allow me to plagiarise her somewhat:

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012 Vaginal probing for all!

(to be covered by medicare part V)

Romney was ratcheting up its rhetoric about Obama -- accusing the president’s campaign of engaging in “division and anger and hate”

As Sigmund Freud said to Romney at the movie theatre, "It's all just projection."

Kudos GBM! Well said.

More like a mouthful of socialist drivel

Obamacare emphasizes government control and central planning. The law empowers a panel of 15 unelected government officials, called the Independent Payment Advisory Board, to make changes to the Medicare program that will reduce Medicare spending: primarily paying doctors and hospitals less, as is done with the Medicaid program. Over time, liberal health-policy types hope that IPAB can be used to introduce rationing into Medicare, using the panel to determine what types of procedures and treatments that Medicare will and will not pay for.

No doubt, Obama is working hard to continue the safety net for seniors. After all he claims that now Medicare which was going broke in 8 years when he took office, is saved because his policies have extended the life to 12 years. Wow, a whole four more years! That is the same as whoops, four more years, well okay lets take credit for it. This fact is a simple one, Obama will say anything to try and convince everyone that he has actually done something. It is only guaranteed to work on liberals.

Gingerbread - wonderful post.

Is it surprising that no joe felt compelled to follow it with nothing but hate filled drivel??? Her life must be so depressing.

And, I see the short-minded and utterly foolish far righters joined her.

Have a great day all. It's a busy one for me so I will just be stopping in once in a while!

Obama/Biden 2012

GBM, excellent, wonderful post, and yes, eloquent!

We know it is eloquent when Snookie Joe proves your point by whining louder than usual. Can just picture her tossing her head, sticking out that lower lip in typical Snookie poutrage. Sorry,

GOPTP legislators and surrogates, are what they are--a bunch of hateful cowards who are too afraid of their own shaddows so they make up lies, ugly lies and show distain and disrespect for the Office of President, not just this President but all presidents past and future. Their actions the past 3 1/2 years show they do not care about the country or the American people, they simply care about winning the next election. The global economy had collapsed on itself during the Bush/Cheney years but rather than lift the country up, the GOPTPers chose to tear it down brick by brick, stone by stone for one reason: defeat President Obama. It says a great deal about the GOPTP and those who cheer their efforts in the name of ideology. Patriots? How patriotic is it to disregard the American people to defeat one man? America first? How can the GOPTP claim to love America when it so willingly tried to see her fail? No, there is no way the GOPTP legislators and their surrogate chatterers come close to either.

GBM,

The right may mock your post as overly dramatic, but what you said is true. I have seen no GOP politician brave enough to speak to the lies that the Tea Party faithful have spread. In comparision you see a microcosm here at First Read as well. The GOP trolls and reregs here who deserve no mention in name spread their untruths, twisted comments and vile attack comments "liberally" to those left of Limbaugh.

Well said. Although an Obama reelection will not be a panacea for our problems nor are his policies perfect a Romney election would be ruinous to all but a fortunate few.

That said Biden's recent statement that nothing will change in Medicare and SS is troubling. I think that if elected Obama should propose the tough but fair steps needed to address our entitlements. Whether it goes anywhere in the GOP dominated legislative branch is thequestion. On the other side I have not an ounce of faith that Romney/Ryan would even try.

In truth, most arguements from both sides (outside of the trolls) have a nugget of truth to them. Even the often maligned No Jo provides an insight not to be discouraged. The problem I see is that 99% of people interested in politics don't care to try to view the problem/issue from the other side. You don't have to agree with it, but it is imperative to try to understand what the other side is coming from. If not words, words, words becomes noise, noise noise.

@ Gingerbread....the simplest retribution for the avaricious dishonesty of a partisan right which consistently and blatantly puts the corporate citizen above the real article is voting against them.

As I see it, a small pack of wolves somehow convinced American sheep to build their own slaughterhouse- perhaps by labeling their plans "The Gates of Paradise". But the screams and rivers of blood emerging from what used to be the middle class (some now residing in neat little cellophane wrapped trays) convinced some to run the other way.

Given a little help, that could become a crushing stampede.

Gingerbread Mamma: All I can say is WOW........Super post and one of the best I've seen here!

I love the birther movement.

I guess now we have the "tax returner" movement.

what a bunch of hypocrites you liberals are

@GBM - great post. Poor pitiful Ann Romney sure is using the victim card these days, erupting into almost angry tears at how 'those' people just keep questioning the Romney taxes. Good God, poor pitiful Queen Romney stopped just short of claiming she is Marie Antoinette reincarnated.

@Jack

More like a mouthful of socialist drivel

You have nothing to dispute - and in fact, everything GMB posted is true, thus you claim it is socialist drivel. Tell me, if I prove to you that 2+2=4, is your response "socialist drivel"? Well, of course it is - you right wing nut jobs denounce science, denounce facts, while praising lies.

Does this argument make sense to anybody?:

"Medicare and Social Security might run into financial trouble years in the future! SOMETHING MUST BE DONE! (we are going to take a meat cleaver and hack them out of the federal budget)"

YAY...?

For all the kind words, thank you friends.

It is an easy topic to write about as there are so many examples to chose from in how some of our brethren willfully lie and disrespect not just the President, but the Office of the President and still call themselves patriotic American citizens.

Oh this is getting deep! Pass the Kool-Aid! I've never read so many cornball comments in one sting like this in a long time. Give me a break this clown in the WHite House is now worse than Carter! Lie, flip flops, incredable. The Democrat Party, what a bunch of winers!!!

Mitt saw a movie yesterday about black people and they were poor in that movie. That's kind of sums it up for his experience and involvement with black and poor folks.

Tomorrow, he plans to see a movie about Latinos so he can understand what they are about too.

Give me a break this clown in the WHite House is now worse than Carter! Lie, flip flops, incredable. The Democrat Party, what a bunch of winers!!!

I'll bet you anything that after 8 years of Obama we'll be in WAY better shape than after 8 years of the Cheney/W debacle. Sore losers.

Nobody does anguish and does caterwauling like the GOP/Tea Scum.

Gingerbread Mamma is right on the money. I can't believe the disrespect this president is getting. I believe that some of these republicans are just sore losers. They seem much like children who lose at a board game. They are angry that they lost. Yet children usually make up and move forward. Instead of working together, these politicians collect their toys, go home and whine.

As for Mrs. Romney, she looked like she had rehearsed her lines well. She said that her husband is "golden." If that is true what is she afraid of? If her husband was not running for president, no one would be asking for this information (except maybe the irs), but since he wants to run this country, then he needs to come clean. If he isn't hiding anything, than what is the problem?

Maybe he'll wait 3 years like our President. That was sure okay with you hypocrites, so it should be okay now.

This post chain sounds like a union rally. The problem is, as citizens, you are the employers. You should be outraged that your hired hand, Barack Obama, is screwing you.

That was a really good one, IR. Remember when Reagan was going to have to take Stockman behind the woodshed for telling the truth.

Well, as St. Ronald of Reagan might say to Stockman, "There you go again," telling the truth.

How I wish President Obama would just tell the plain, ugly, unvarnished truth - just like Stockman has done. We are in very deep trouble and we do not have one moment to waste on niceties or pretending that somehow this situation is just going to magically take care of itself.

From the Opinion page. LOL. Got anything from the "Letter to the Editor" page.

And yes I know who Stockman is and who he served under. Ryan is over Stockman's head.

Good morning IR --

Great article. An economist called the Ryan/Romney plan a throwback from the 80's. The supply siders are counting on pent up demand and tax cuts to spur things on. The problem is we are in a different world today. Taxes are already at record lows, global factors are weighing heavily and people are still deleveraging. What else are they ready to do? Throw more money on Defense. Surprise! Surprise! No new ideas from these guys just retreads from the past. These guys are shortsighted and foolish to think it will work in today's world. Think Dumb and Dumber!

Rick -

So your argument to vote for Romney/Ryan is that even if you don't like their policies, don't worry they won't get implemented anyway?

Weird, yet uneffective....

Paul Ryan: The Deficit? I Built That!

Romney/Ryan: Medicare? We Can Fix End That!

We tried their supply-side theory of economics for THIRTY YEARS and it just doesn't work. If giving more money to the 1% leads to job creation, where are the jobs? Cutting taxes for the 1% just leads to more money in the pockets of the 1%. Enough already.

The republicons have not had a new idea in thirty years, and that one was a very bad idea for 99% of Americans. They are saying exactly the same things now that they were then. The only difference is that their hair is gray now.

Under tinkle upon economics 99% of Americans have seen their real income drop while the 1% has seen their income go up 380%.

Now those vampire capitalists want to privatize Social Security and Medicare. They have a history and it is ugly.

Protect yourself from the aristocracy and vote against them.

Vote Democratic.

Ginger: Great mouthful of hypocritical, empty air.

You can actually take out the innuendo's you fantasize about and replace them with liberal or democrat names and instances and you would have the exact same results.

It was well written, but reverse it and it's no different.

The other day when foot in the mouth Biden exclaimed his "back in chains" comment. I can only imagine the backlash the media would be stirring up, Sharpton, and his racist ilk if it came from Romney or Ryan.

You just can't help the fact that most democrats are the biggest hypocrites in the world.

Most very wealthy supporters of Obama are millionaire Democrats who have offshore accounts, paid 15% capital gains and dividend tax, etc...

But it only matters when it's not a liberal. Try looking in the mirror once in a while.

The problem with ginger she been eating too many obama dropping. She on a dropping rush.

Ryan's budget would increase the cost of healthcare to seniors by $6,000 a year. His plan doesn't save anybody money, except the wealthiest Americans, who might pay less in taxes, since this plan them passes the "savings" on to them as a tax cut. Taxes for the middleclass would go up under Romney's tax reform plan. I really don't get why anyone who isn't at the upper reaches of income, would vote for the Republicans.

Job1

See, for example, the fawning by Chuck Todd and David Gregory over Ryan As Visionary.

I've done my share of Chuckie bashing, mostly for the open hostility he's sometimes shown towards the president. However, I think he deserves some credit for calling out the Governor Branstad of Iowa for parroting Romney's despicable race-baiting lie about Obama handing out welfare checks to people who don't want to work. Todd didn't call it that, of course, but he did repeatedly point out to Branstad that what he was saying just wasn't true. Branstad just keep repeating the lie. He may have been perplexed that he, a Republican, was actually being called for saying stuff that he knows is not true (i.e., a lie) by a journalist.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/08/15/693381/branstad-welfare-waivers/

Obamacare emphasizes government control and central planning. The law empowers a panel of 15 unelected government officials, called the Independent Payment Advisory Board, to make changes to the Medicare program that will reduce Medicare spending: primarily paying doctors and hospitals less, as is done with the Medicaid program. Over time, liberal health-policy types hope that IPAB can be used to introduce rationing into Medicare, using the panel to determine what types of procedures and treatments that Medicare will and will not pay for.

No doubt, Obama is working hard to continue the safety net for seniors. After all he claims that now Medicare which was going broke in 8 years when he took office, is saved because his policies have extended the life to 12 years. Wow, a whole four more years! That is the same as whoops, four more years, well okay lets take credit for it. This fact is a simple one, Obama will say anything to try and convince everyone that he has actually done something. It is only guaranteed to work on liberals.

Obamacare emphasizes government control and central planning. The law empowers a panel of 15 unelected government officials

And this is where I'm going to stop reading your post. Because if I find such blatant misinformation in the second sentence, it probably just gets worse. This panel of "officials" has no power. They merely analyze spending and make recommendations. Please reread ACA.

If Ayn Ryan wants to increase my medical costs by $6,000 and I only take in $20,000 I might as well just be a hypochondriac and move into the hospital.

The republicon health care plan: Die young and die fast.

"Little Eddie Munster (Ryan)

Are you, like, 12? Jeez, go back to the playground!

I have yet to hear Romney or Ryan whine. That's Nobamas specialty. It started on his first day in office. And he's still doing it everyday. He always wants and needs something. Please i work for what i want and yes i did build my own business, that's more than Nobama can say. He never even finished his four years in the Senate. Why would the Democrats want to stap themselves to this unqualified man? Move him on, he's failed!!

Auntie Fascist, wasn't she at her royal imperiousness in that interview? It was cringe inducing. And this is supposed to help their image? As time goes by, they get more unlikable, if that is possible.

I've never seen Ann as a "humanizing" element in Romney's campaign, the way the media keep telling us she is. Especially when she called the political storm over a Democratic operative pointing out she has never worked outside the home, a "birthday gift" to her and Mitt's campaign. I think she should have called her dressage horse "Naked Ambition."

Don't worry, Queen Anne will be taken down a notch.

Thank God we already have Mrs. Obama as our Nation Treasure and First Lady!

You cannot be serious. Wait. I take it back- you are serious.

Please keep at it- knocking Mrs. Romney will just alienate even more independent voters.

Oh, and by the way, have any of you seen this? This is rich

http://now.msn.com/president-obama-suggests-first-lady-should-get-salary?_p=c18f4491-c8fa-4ed6-ab67-9222bba27a8c&_rp=53ea40b6-1041-4736-b9fd-38203c04539b

Here, by the way, is what he said

     |"I want to make sure that when she's working she's getting paid the same as men," Obama said. "I gotta say that First Ladies right now don't [get paid], even though that's a tough job!"|

So, Obama is whining that the Mrs. Doesn't get a salary?  All those swank vacays she takes on our dime are not enough?

She went to the Olympics on the taxpayer dime- in an $8000 blouse we probably footed the bill for.

She went to Vail, and Spain, and a safari in Africa- all on our dime.

Frankly, I think I've paid her plenty- and then some.

Maybe Obama should worry more about the other women in his life- like Janet Napolitano

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/12/tagblogsfindlawcom2012-freeenterprise-idUS100993432920120812

By the way- guess who pays if the government loses this suit?  You guessed it- those of us who pay taxes, that's who.

Damn right I'm serious! And, no, the continued arrogance of the Queen Of Hearts will not endear the Romneys to independents (or anyone made of flesh and blood)! At this point, the freakin' dancing horse is more of a plus than the Queen Of Hearts! OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mrs. Obama is the classiest thing to happen to the White House since Jackie Kennedy. I so admire her poise, her humanity and her sense of humor. Queen Ann doesn't hold a candle to her. She comes across as selfish and entitled.

OBAMA/BIDEN 2012

Auntie Fascist

How in hell does the the imperious nature of Ann Romney (AKA The Queen Of Hearts) make Mitt more likeable?

Her horse is more likeable than either her or her hubby.

NOjo, just curious, why the love affair with queen ann? She seems very cold and distant to me, perhaps that is the type of peopel you like to be with, like to control you, or just have hero worship for. I don't understand it one bit, she looks like a cold hearted witch to me, truely a member of the "I got mine, to heck with you" crowd. It is not the money we care about, it is their attitude regarding those with less that makes us so mad. No way these folks ever read the New Testament (of course Mormons don't read it, they have their own, and the Catholics use their own version as well), they do not live by it, and what is the name of their charity? Now if she tells me they gave all mitts inherritance to the MS foundation I'd be impressed, if they gave it all to the Mormon church - not so much.

no joe - your stupidity is overwhelming and your eagerness to show it - astounding.

Our First Lady is just that - a first class Lady. She, like all First Ladies, pays for her own clothes and her own vacations. None of that is done on the taxpayer's dime - not hers, not Lauras, not any First Lady for First Family for that matter. We pay for the secret service protection - as we have for all First Families - nothing more.

So, either you're stupid or a liar. Oooops - wrong - you're a stupid liar!

Anne Romney doesn't begin to have the class of our First Lady and she never will. All the money in the world can't buy class - as the Romney's prove every single day.

And, as a registered Independent I can tell you, Anne Romney appeals to no one who is Independent and actually cares for this country. She will hurt Romney almost as much as Romney hurts himself!

lulu98 - did you bother to read no joe's comment? Oh no, that would mean you're a hypocrite and we know you can't possibly be a HYPOCRITE!

Obama/Biden 2012

The First Lady who represents the country on the international stage should be wearing a $100 jacket to indicate to the world America's poverty ... really? Gee 'in the middle', maybe she should carry a tin cup in her hand also.

I do not really give a damn what either of the wear. Why the name calling? But you are the hypocrit here since you seem to think Mrs. Romney should be criticized for just about everything while Mrs. Obama should not be. And, really, about the vacas, do you not think off the rail to go on such expensive vacations when it DID cost a pile of money to drag along all the people that follow? I would say the same for the other first ladies, so do not bother with that.

She doesn't, I don't know how Romney is getting any support from anyone who isn't a millionaire. They have managed to Pi** off every minority group in the US.

I believe others have addressed that all First Ladies have priveliges that go along with their role.

Title - Did Obama suggest first lady deserves a salary? In my reading of the very brief tweet from an unknown source/blogger I can't understand the full context. Is it possible Obama said that he belives that if women, using Michelle as an example does the same job as a man they should be paid the same? Unless I see the full contex, I believe he was saying Michelle does a lot and, by the way she doesn't get a salary. I'm sure it was nothing more than an applause line to get cheers for his hardworking wife. To think that he was suggesting First ladies get a salary is a stretch.

The second article about female discrimination against men in Napolitono's department was supposedly done by a manager not by the AG herself. Could it be possible the AG is distancing herself from the complaint until it is verified? If there was discrimination the female manager should be punished not Napolitono.

My personal positive view of Ms. Obama vs. Ms. Romney's perceived aloof attitude shouldn't matter. Not voting for either one of them.

lulu98 - what complete drivel. You make no sense whatsoever!

No drivel from her .... just a statement of her opinion which apparently sends you into convulsions ! Michelle Obama has been quite "liberal" with the taxpayer's dime for her personal needs and desires.

No, but at least the first lady didn't get into the whole thing about Obama's birth certificate. Now with Romney being asked to put out his tax records why did she comment, like she is someone. she said this:

“There's going to be no more tax releases given." Mrs. Romney said if they release any more information, "it will only give them more ammunition.

we have to ask ourselves why will it give more ammunition.

There is so much ammunition there. Why was Rmoney living in his son's unfinished basement in Massachusetts while he was living in Utah?

How can a CEO and sole owner of a company not be responsible for that company? He was going to board meetings of that company in 2002. He has said so.

Did he take that amnesty for rich tax cheats?

And the beat goes on.

What difference does it make between the first lady, and Ann Romney...both are married to millionaires. Obama has never run away from his wealth...he got his by working as a lawyer (excuse me, republicans, but he did work in the private sector), and writing a book. For all those complaining about his book, how many books, autobiographies, and such has republicans done.

The point is, both families are worth millions, and both Mrs.'s wear expensive clothes. Who cares????? Obama and his wife have released their tax returns for several years, and have undergone the scrutiny from the republicans and the American public.....why won't the Romney's under go the same scrutiny from the Democratic and and the American public???

The old story is that releasing 1 1/2 years is usual and under law, think again. What are they afraid of, and what ammunition would there be???

Nash,

In the absence of any pretense at TRUTH, what we get instead is a detailed analysis of the meaning of the word "chain".

This is how they sell this over the top crap to the "two word" culture crowd. You know the same people that were saying "Keep government out of my Medicare."

There's a sucker born every minute and it seems as of late most of them claim to be Tea Party members.

Obama/Biden 2012

Well, Nash, your complaint about the "newstainment" industry is a little misplaced.

Tell me- if the co-chair of the Bush, or McCain, or any other republican candidate for president were out campaigning for Obama, do you not thinkit would be screaming headline news?

I do.

So, I find it highly instructive that the co-chair of the Obama campaign in 2008, Artur Davis, is actively campaigning for Romney- and there is barely a peep about it.

By the way- what do you think that says about Obama's presidency? Seems highly instructive to me.

no joe:

Neither the word chains nor the name Artur Davis does a damn thing to help move this country forward.

I notice you ignore the larger points that you cannot dispute, Romney/Ryan is a ticket based on lies and deceit.

I guess that is something you are comfortable with, which is fine with me. I just wanna know what, other than lying and cutting their own taxes, are Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan proposing to do for America.

Neither the word chains nor the name Artur Davis does a damn thing to help move this country forward.

Gnash- And "show us the taxes Mitt" does what to move the country forward?

Gnash- And "show us the taxes Mitt" does what to move the country forward?

And the Ryan / Romney plan of continuing and expanding on the thirty years of failed trickle-down economics and institution of austerity does what to move the country forward?

Talk to the Hand:

And how does Mitt Romney hiding his tax returns move the country forward? Mitt Romney is applying for the job of leader of the free world. Showing his tax returns should be the least of his worries. And always whining about how someone has said something to offend his delicate sensibilities.

What a leader.

And how does Mitt Romney hiding his tax returns move the country forward? Mitt Romney is applying for the job of leader of the free world. Showing his tax returns should be the least of his worries.

It is the least of his worries. He has moved beyond it. It is moot and he has done enough.

Yes, a leader. Doesn't dwell on the past (or blame his predecessor) and moves forward.

It is the least of his worries. He has moved beyond it. It is moot and he has done enough.

Not according to his wife. Apparently according to her it would "give the democrats more ammunition". Now tell me, how could a normal tax return possibly do that?

Nash-

I agree that the media has done a dreadful job this election cycle. In addition to the points you made, I resent the fact that in an effort to appear unbiased the media continually presents "opposing viewpoints' and treats them with equal weight even if they are bogus and unsubstantiated.

Take for example the false equivalency of the media claiming "both campaigns are getting nasty".

Romney takes President Obama's words out of context and distorts or outright lies about Obama's positions and policies. Romney and his surrogates (Trump, et al) continue to question President Obama's citizenship, religion, and patriotism.

President Obama has presented facts about Romney's business practices, tax returns, tax shelters, and tax reform proposals. No references to Romney's many gaffes or veiled attacks on his religion.

How are the two approaches equally "nasty"?

Not according to his wife. Apparently according to her it would "give the democrats more ammunition". Now tell me, how could a normal tax return possibly do that?

Because he probably paid very little in taxes at one point or another. Hell maybe all of them. The point is he did (or his tax attorneys/advisors) what every other red blooded American would do. Took all deductions and loopholes LEGALLY available to him. And it is obvious, by lack of action, that the IRS had no problem with his returns. Yes they would exploit that. They have nothing else except his dog, Bain, and other such nonsense that has been worn out also.

"Doesn't dwell on the past (or blame his predecessor) and moves forward." is about as blatant a lie as $154 million dollars (between Gov. Romney and his SuperPACs) in negative campaign ads can make it.

(source: http ://www .washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/track-presidential-campaign-ads-2012/ )

ROMNEY CAUGHT LYING AGAIN WITH OFFSHORE ACCOUNT IN LUXEMBOURG!

Documents show once again that Romney was head of Bain when he signed documents on his account. Now he is saying what he signed on those documents was a lie because retroactively he left the company. So Romney lied when he said he left the company, now he lies saying he wasn't with Bain when he signed documents. This is criminal!

Nashville Fan

Your comment from above:

The Romney campaign comes out and tells a straight up lie about President Obama gutting Medicare, when that is 100% not true, and the media doesn't say a peep.

This is one of my biggest pet-peaves. Corporate Media gets un-godly amounts of money from the Super-PACS, so it is in their best interests to keep 'mum' on the facts and make it seam like the election is close.

Courtesy of John Mayer - "Waiting On The World To Change"

And when you trust your television
What you get is what you got
Cause when they own the information, oh
They can bend it all they want

Salud.

The Romney campaign comes out and tells a straight up lie about President Obama gutting Medicare, when that is 100% not true, and the media doesn't say a peep.

Perhaps the media knows more than you think and your spoon fed information isn't quite up to the task of scrutiny.

Perhaps the media is misrepresenting the situation in order to pander to certain demographics because they feel certain that those being appealed too would rather acquiesce and scream in outrage than fact check.

C'mon, Mr. Romney, time to put your "Big-Boy Pants" on and stop this incessant complaining

That would be nice. But we all know that Mitt can't take the heat so he should get out of the kitchen.

The President and his VP are just fighting fire with fire.

The President and his VP are just FLAMING liberals who START FIRES to distract from 8.3% unemployment, $16 trillion in national debt with NO BUDGETS, no plan and no clue .... about what to do !

What is Obama's platform for the next 4 years ? Raise taxes ?? More failed Stimulus ??? Amnesty for illegals ???? Cap and Trade to increase our energy costs ?????

One thing is for sure, if Obama is somehow re-elected, he will inherit an even bigger mess than the guy who won in 2008 ! Obama is financially incompetent !

"Start fires", jim?

Funny, I don't remember President Obama asking for Gov. Romney's birth certificate or questioning his religion. And somehow being outspent over 2 to 1 on negative advertising by Gov. Romney and his SuperPACs tends to make your statement even more questionable. (Source: http ://www .washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/track-presidential-campaign-ads-2012/ )

While we're at it and for context's sake, let's look at Karl Rove (who is assisting Gov. Romney) and the primary campaign HE ran for President Bush against Sen. McCain. You remember that the rumors that Sen. McCain had an illegitimate black child that were bandied about which cost him South Carolina and other southern states? Mr. Rove claims he knew nothing of them but he set up the push poll phone bank that asked the question.

Or how about the distribution of fliers by Bush campaign workers that called Sen. McCain (pardon my language) "The Fag Candidate" while implying he was gay?

The Democrats didn't start this fire, jim.

The Democrats didn't start this fire, jim.

You've got that right.

The GOTP just hates it when play smash mouth, down and dirty politics just like they do and the really good part about it is that Obama and Biden seem to be better at than the GOTP is (or at least better than the GOP expected them to be).

The (our) Democratic Leadership has apparently found it's spine... and I like it!

Obama/Biden 2012 "Bitch slapping the GOTP every step of the way".

Job 1 ,,,, yes they are , still hiding and lying about their taxes !

You betcha they're felons, Job1........

Watcha' gonna do when they come for you Willard.......

If you are stupid enough to think the IRS has not reviewed all of this , well.........

lulu98

If you are stupid enough to think the IRS has not reviewed all of this , well.........

I doubt that the IRS has the jurisdiction or the interest to pursue Romney for filing in one State and then voting in another.

We also have to remember the IRS doesn't always catch information as they should. It is a known fact that they don't have the resources to go after someone as rich as Willard. His accountants and lawyers can tie audits up for years.

That is why the IRS only nails the small fish. Also, Mitt and Ann may fall under the IRS amnesty program. In this case releasing more taxes will show this.

Another problem Mitt may have is voter fraud, in Mass.

are Mitt and Ann Romney felons?

No, they are not felons to my knowledge. They are amoral, decietful, conniving, greedy, and slanderous, but unfortunately none of those traits are felonies.

The man in charge of such determinations in the town where Romney voted said he met the qualifications to vote there. He had just sold a house and was building or buying another. I have been in similar situations.

blackcatwhitecat - the fact that people are so unaware of the IRS is baffling to me. They audit files randomly - no one is audited every year unless they have proved they are constantly filing incorrectly. Who knows when the Romney's were last audited? We certainly don't. Although I am pretty sure they will be in the near future!

Obama/Biden 2012

SpeekingInsanity, Once again, you distort reality. If you truly believe that all audits are random, I have some "property" in Southwest Florida I would like to sell you.

Audits are heavily skewed toward the wealthy, and there are certain "triggers" which may get the IRS attention if "numbers" are out of a normal range. For years, the wealthiest get audited the most. People who are on the outer edge of income like Mr. Romney and his wife are usually audited quite frequently. Those with verifiable income and withholding numbers and those who take the standard deduction are audited rarely.

Again, the IRS has computer programs setup to spot abnormalities which can throw up a red flag and cause an audit.

Is the Mittwit a felon? Not until convicted in a court of law. That will not happen until we get his full tax returns. Then....................

Why elect a felon to public office?

The question should be is OdumbO really as smart and educated as the drive by media protrays. Why is his transcipt in columbia university undersealed? What is he hiding that his smarter then protrayed or his just plain stupid.

My parents had Medicare Advantage until they recently passed. It was great for them. Paid most everything and they did have serious issues.

This kind of reminds me of Truman holding the paper stating "Dewey defeats Truman".

When are President Obama and Mr. Biden going to whip together a plan that links their visions to our reality?

billybob

"If you don't have any fresh ideas, then you use stale tactics to scare voters. If you don't have a record to run on, then you paint your opponent as someone people should run from. You make a big election about small things."

This is too easy. The quote is from our Great American President Obama.

The tactic is 100% Pure Karl Rove, and it's 20 years old.

It's called 'Projection'.

The American public is sick of Karl Rove, and sick of his spoiled, childish, elitist, crybaby - blame game tactics.

Mr. Rove is scared out of his mind because the Democrats are giving him a taste of his own BS, and it's backfiring on him BIG TIME.

I know all of my Eisenhower/Reagan Republican friends are sick of this too, and this time, they know President Obama is fighting for them and the Middle Class.

Salud

The American public is sick of Karl Rove, and sick of his spoiled, childish, elitist, crybaby - blame game tactics.

Obviously Obama isn't. He's following it to the tea. (no pun intended)

you may be sick of rove to the same extent i am sick of axelrod. all of the tactics you attribute to rove are being followed by axelrod.

obama is surely not running on his record, he endorses base-less accusations against his opponent, he endorses deceitful advertisements that suggest his opponent is a murderer, he supports his campaign calling his opponent a felon.

he doesn't, obama that is, talk about what his policies have done for the economy, what his policies have done for increased government welfare in many categories, how his policies induced the change in our country's financial ratings, how his policies have improved our standing in the world, how his policies regarding the arab spring have helped, how his policy has helped the Syrian rebels, how his policies have brought our country together...

billybob

Thank you for responding.

you may be sick of rove to the same extent i am sick of axelrod. all of the tactics you attribute to rove are being followed by axelrod

This was my point. David Axelrod is using the same tactics AS Karl Rove. He is fighting Fire with Fire.

President Obama IS running on his record, and it is quite impressive. A list is available at the Whitehouse website.

President Obama himself did NOT suggest Govenor Romney is a murderer. I have seen the add several times as I'm sure you have too.

President Obama talks about his policies all the time.

The downgrade in our rating was caused by Tea Party Republicans in the House of Representative. You do know that John Boehner, Eric Canter and all the House Republicans voted in favor of increasing the dept limit every year that George Bush was President, don't you? They decided NOT to vote for the increase because a DEMOCRAT was in the White House.

Bill, I'm sure you're a good guy. But to purposefully repeat talking points on websites like this is as obsolete as a public pay phone. It is in fact, a reflection of your personallity and your morals. My guess is if you tried to BS your wife like this, she'd clobber you.

There are no 'undecided' voters left for you to convince. We are Red State/ Blue State and everyone has made up their mind how they intend to vote.

You Vote for your guy, I'll vote for my guy. Either way, I'm sure America will somehow survive.

Salud

Good call TomasGrande.

The republicons got our credit rating downgraded grandstanding about money they had already agreed to spend. They have only themselves to blame for their 10% approval rating.

There probably isn't anything illegal, but political ammunition deals with more than just legalities. I believe it was a poster named Ursula the other day that thought those returns probably contain income for short sales while the economy was going down the toilet. That would be pretty big political ammunition.

Yep, that's my evil conspiracy theory - which leads to even more questions, like 'insider trading.' Forget tax rates - Romney can make plenty of money without being a tax cheat. His money's supposedly tied up in a "blind trust" but he admitted a few years ago that there are ways around that. As we saw from the '08 market crash, not all investors in the market play by the same rules, and my guess is that Romney financial power gives him carte blanc in the market.

Speculating about something of which you have no direct knowledge merely reveals a prejudicial mindset. If ALL of Mitt Romney's return was laid before you, would you understand it ? Are you a CPA ??

Furthermore, do you magically presume Mr. Romney should NOT make personal investments that are good for him ? Do you think he should have bought stock in GM or a screwed up company like Solyndra .... so he could LOSE money .... and somehow that would make him look smarter, or more American or something else ???

The only thing "evil" is your theory itself because it is based on nothing more than your wild thoughts which you cannot prove. You are merely supporting Harry Reid's asinine comments.

Remaining long in the market when things are going to hell doesn't make you a patriot. It makes you an idiot.

That's apples to oranges. All candidates in every elections I can remember have released their tax returns going back several years.

Executive privilege, on the other hand, is perfectly valid to protect ongoing criminal investigations, to protect the identities of informants, or for national security reasons.

But, if you believe that Romney is holding back his tax returns to shield himself from some pending legal action, criminal investigation, or possible self incrimination of felony acts, etc... then you may have an argument for that swap you propose.