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Subscribe to RSSEven though Pennsylvania officials offered no evidence that in-person voter fraud has tainted past elections -- or is likely to occur this fall -- a state court judge ruled Wednesday that challengers of a new photo ID requirement failed to meet the legal requirement to get it put on hold.
Lawyers for the challengers say they will immediately appeal, hoping to get enforcement of the law stopped before the presidential election on Nov. 6.
"I am not convinced any qualified elector need be disenfranchised" by the law, said Commonwealth Court Judge Robert Simpson, a Republican, in denying a request for a court order to stop enforcement of Pennsylvania's Act 18, passed by the legislature in March. It requires voters to present a photo ID at the polling place in order to vote.
Several voting rights groups, including the League of Women Voters and the NAACP, joined with a group of state residents to claim that the law would force thousands of people to say home on election day because they lack the kinds of ID cards required by the new law.
At most, Judge Simpson said, the percentage of registered voters in the state without a qualifying photo ID "is somewhat more than 1% and significantly less than 9%."
But he said that with the availability of absentee voting, the right of a person without photo ID to cast a provisional ballot, and the opportunities for those with special hardships to seek individual help from the courts, he was not convinced that any of those who filed the lawsuits or the witnesses they called will be prevented from voting.
The judge also said the challengers failed to meet the legal test required to mount what's known as a facial challenge to a law -- a claim that the law on its face is unconstitutional. "They do not acknowledge the extremely rigorous legal standard for facial challenges requiring a demonstration that there are no set of circumstances under which the statute may be valid."
Similar efforts to stop voter ID laws in other states have been unsuccessful in federal court, which is one reason why the challengers in Pennsylvania decided to sue in state court by claiming that the law there violated the state constitution.
While opponents of the law are hoping they can prevail on appeal in the state courts, one election law expert believes today's ruling will ultimately survive.
"The decision is almost certain to stand," said professor Rick Hasen of the UC Irvine School of Law, author of "The Voting Wars."
The Pennsylvania Supreme Court, he said, is divided 3-3 between Democrats and Republicans, who are likely to support today's ruling.
But even if they did split along party lines, Hasen said, "a 3-3 tie leaves the lower court opinion in place. I don't expect there would be any fuller ruling on the merits in this case before November, or that any such ruling would lead to a different result."
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Wow, nothing like a little voter suppression to make a republicans day.
BJ, I know you and Fisty support voter fraud. That isn't a very popular position though.
Why do you support voter fraud?
Job1 - you know the GOP is going to do every underhanded thing they can to try to win.
RedSox - as usual - your post makes you look like the ignoramus you truly are. Voter fraud has been charged in approximately .003%. You would rather keep legitimate voters from voting than risk what would probably be less than 2 votes in any state.
Wait - I totally understand. When you have candidates like Romney/Rand you are DESPERATE for any vote!
Obama/Biden 2012
Seeking
that made no sense, then why would they want voter suppression as you allude. you might make more sense if you quit sitting on your brains
Insane, please go back and search for your sanity. You don't have time to spend on your mommy's computer. Now go, find your sanity!!!! LOL
Caesar - since your posts NEVER say a thing - you are now on ignore. You're truly pathetic but a good Republican - stupid - which is the way the GOP likes their people!
RedSox - seeking sanity in the GOP but as you and idiotic Caesar prove daily, there isn't a brain to be had in the GOP!
seeking ignoring me doesnt change the fact what you said made no sense. somehow i doubt im on ignore
in short, you cant hide from beind dumfux
Hey RedSox -
Feisty has devoted her life, day after day, week after week .... all in the effort to get Obama re-elected.
How about we buy a loaf of bread, a package of ham and wipe out her, Bev's, Seeking's and the other libs' votes by offering ham sandwich's to bums if they vote for Romney?
Wouldn't that be funny, all their years of effort and their votes are negated by a couple of ham sandwiches?
Maine's voters repealed their Republican legislature's attempt to suppress the vote. Eventually, Pennsylvania's voters will also stand up for their democracy. In the meantime, the Republican Party has seriously damaged their brand.
I wonder when Libertarians will stop associating themselves with Republicans? I mean really, what could be less Libertarian than requiring a photo I.D. to vote?
It's amateur hour at the White House. So says New York Times best-selling author Edward Klein in his political exposé The Amateur. Tapping into the public's growing sentiment that President Obama is in over his head, The Amateur argues that Obama's toxic combination of incompetence and arrogance has run our nation and his presidency off the rails.
"Obama was both completely inexperienced and ideologically far to the left of most Americans when he entered the White House," says Klein. "And he was so arrogant that he didn't even know what he didn't know."
Klein, who is known for getting the inside scoop on everyone from the Kennedys to the Clintons, reveals never before published details about the Obama administration's political inner workings, as well as Barack and Michelle's personal lives, including the inordinate influence Michelle wields over Barack and her feud with a high profile celebrity; the real reason Rahm Emanuel left the White House (it wasn't for family reasons); why Valerie Jarrett's role is closer to that of Rasputin than impartial senior advisor; how Obama has purposefully forgotten and ignored those who put him in power, including the Kennedys and the Jewish and African American communities in Chicago.
From Obama's conceited and detached demeanor, to his detrimental reliance on Michelle Obama and Valerie Jarrett's advice, to the Obamas' extravagant and out of touch lifestyle, The Amateur reveals a president whose ignorance and incompetence are sabotaging himself, his presidency, and America.
You guys crap me up!!!!!!!!!!
An ID is suppressing the vote, but Obama's attempts to truly suppress military votes is OK. LMAO
You guys are like a dishrag flapping in the wind. LOL
Job1 are you for real?
I went yesterday to vote on the Primaries. Mainly a Democratic Precinct and I was asked for my voters registration, and ID with a picture (license) and I had no problem with those request. The only thing that I found a little odd was that I was asked what party I belong to. I told the lady while she was looking at the VR that I was Independent just like it said on the VR.
A VR by itself says nothing to prove that it belongs to you. I guess Job1 wants to do the same that they do in Venezuela, which is to bring people from Cuba and have them vote for Chaves.
RedSoxs, did you not know that some of this Libs come from the planet Liburanus?
That is a fact checked lie, and you know it. Lets see 10 actual cases since 2000. However, that total was after the 2000 election in FL in which massive cases occurred by the republicans in charge.
You people would do anything to win an election.
BJ, the fact is that Obama has filed a lawsuit to suppress the military vote.
So you are in favor of voter fraud and suppressing the military vote, but not an ID.
That is truly insane.
Red Sox,
That is 100% false.
His lawsuit would give all Ohio citizens the same voting days and hours that is now only for active duty military.
To keep the current law in place would deny extended voting days and hours to 10's of thousands of military veterans.
Obama/Biden 2012 "For the Banana Republic"
(Obama show us the laser focus)
Job1 - I see Concern is babbling again. Now we're discussing Cuba - I think the other day it was Mars. She is not interested in facts or anything else. The military voter suppression was debunked over a week ago - is she back on that again?
I do believe her power of comprehension is very low and remembering from day to day is very difficult for her.
Obama/Biden 2012
[...the fact is that Obama has filed a lawsuit to suppress the military vote.]
Uhm, no...seems Romney is a liar for perpetuationg this one...and guess what that makes you...
...yep, a liar:
http://factcheck.org/2012/08/obama-not-trying-to-curb-military-early-voting/
Keep on posting bull@!$%# with your friends Caesar and "concern(ed) citizen"...you three are real entertainment.
Indiana.
2008.
Six to three Supreme Court decision written by Justice Stevens.
Connect the dots.
"I am not convinced any qualified elector need be disenfranchised"
Neither am I. However some/many will be. Want to install voter ID then fund it, otherwise it is a tax on those that do not have the required documents and in this economy need the money for rent or food. Where is Grover Norquist? This is a tax that says unless you pay it you have no choice in who represents you.
Hi Dennis,
It's hard to get through to these tea bagger folks. They just don't know how to perform a fact check. For them they are the major cause of the dumb down America movement.
Gotta fight the fight, especially with gerrymandering, lobbyists, lack of SuperPAC transparency, ALEC, voter intimidation and misinformation -- Just making underhanded election tactics publicly known is important.
In my state registration is very strict -- This is where it matters, not by the time folks get to the polls. These Teapublicans in swing states know this very well. They are on video admitting it. In Florida there are whistle blowers. Judges who look the other way even with this evidence are not upholding justice.
MickyMouse, Denny and all, you can spin his lawsuit to suppress the military vote all you want. The end result of what Obama is trying to do is prevent military votes.
You know, he wants to stop those pesky military voters who tend to overwhelmingly vote republican. All at the same time lets by all means make sure the illegal immigrants can vote, dead people can vote.
Face it. Obama is a hypocrite and liar. It is too bad so many people are too stupid to see it.
no joe, no bo, nj
Connecting the dots is a child's game. In the adult world some of those dots complete a false image. You as well as I place those dots where we wish others to follow. Ideology despoils the pew when we preach. :-)
Mickey
not as entertaining as the blackrock desert im sure. But tell me Mickey whats Obama doing about the economy? Do you think Obama understands compromise? I mean the left and right dont necessarily agree on things but our government ran a little smoother. now we have no budget, high everything except prosperity and a president who thinks its his way or the highway.
Red Sox,
President Barack Obama's re-election campaign is suing Ohio to extend in-person early voting.
At issue is whether it is fair for Ohio law to cut off early voting the Friday before Election Day for all Ohioans except those in the military, who are allowed to vote through the weekend and the Monday before Election Day.
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/editorials/2012/08/13/ballot-battle.html
I don't call you names so please use my proper name - Thanks
I will disagree with all of you claiming that there is no voter fraud (even though I constantly post that there is no voter fraud). After some research I found:
Indiana secretary of state, Charlie White (R), to the list. He was found guilty of six of seven felony charges: two counts of perjury and one each of false registration, voting in another precinct, submitting a false ballot and theft.
Four staffers of former Rep. Thad McCotter (R-MI) were charged in connection with the false nominating petitions that led to McCotter's departure from Congress
John Enright (R), a candidate for Pinal County Supervisor in Arizona has dropped out amid questions about who cast ballots on behalf of his long-deceased girlfriend. He has withdrawn from the race in the wake of voter-fraud allegations involving a former companion who, records show, has continued to vote by absentee ballot in the five years since her death. John Enright, 66, had been seeking the Republican nomination for county supervisor of District 5, an area that includes Apache Junction and Gold Canyon.
The state GOP itself has stolen the state for Mitt Romney in Maine’s 2012 Caucuses
And ofcourse Romney's questionable basement address to vote for Scott Brown...
yeah, voter fraud does exist - it's just not committed by the old, the students or the minorities!
its a privacy issue Bayllie and you've been told that. Tell me whats to prevent voter fraud, you make the claim its not possible.
You know im for showing ID but its still a non issue and im not going to lose sleep over it at night. These issues are miniscual on the current national stage.
DailyKos:
Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted has directed all 88 of the state's counties to follow the same early voting schedule. As reported previously, the election boards of Republican-dominated counties had extended their early voting hours in October to evenings and weekends while Democratic counties had had their efforts to extend early voting blocked.
###
Thank you!
Pretty funny ... wouldn't that involve .... a budget - a plan for what you want to do combined with a plan on how to pay for it? And what president can't get 1 vote from his own party on a budget .... what branch controlled by what party won't approach doing a budget?
And btw - we are borrowing FOUR BILLION A DAY ... do you guys have a plan ... how to fund all of Obama's spending?
And I guess 9/11 was a child's game .... you know .... how the commission stated that government had failed to "connect the dots."
What is wrong with you people. Such a simple straight forward statement using a common simple to understand expression and you feel compelled to obfuscate and marginalize.
Do you lack the intelligence, or the intellectual honesty to challenge no joe in a straight forward manner?
Btw -
So did no joe place those dots .... or are you just redrawing yours as you suggest?
Oh my goodness, LOOK at the lines in Iowa for the President & First Lady in Iowa!
http://theobamadiary.com/
Why don't Republicans go after the absentee ballots in PA? Pennsylvania voters have requested nearly 127,000 absentee ballots so far. Of that total, Republican voters made up 50% and Democrats made up 42%. They don't want to go after the voters that, as the top Republican in the state House of Representatives, Mike Turzai, declared “is going to allow Gov. [Mitt] Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania.”
Republican voter fraud claim = steaming piece of $hit.
Pat that is great but what does that have to do with voter IDs?
Hey BaylLie care to explain how potential voter fraud is avoided?
Care to explain how having an ID is voter suppression and what the figures are on voter suppression?
Pat,
A special someone from Iowa will be in the VIP section this evening in Davenport to see the President & First Lady!
I can't wait to see her pictures!
Jody is a very LUCKY lady! :o)
Pat Boston MA.
beautiful pics of the First Couple
Breaking News in Ohio:
It’s over!! Ohio will have early voting fully restored throughout the state for all registered voters.
(08-15-2012) Ohio SoS, Jon Husted: “Today I am leveling the playing field on voting days and hours during the absentee voting period in each of the 88 counties – rural, urban and suburban. All Ohio voters will have the same amount of time -- 23 days or 230 hours -- to vote in person prior to Election Day. And let’s not forget that we still have Election Day, when polls will be open from 6:30 a.m. to 7:30 p.m."
http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/mediaCenter/2012/2012-08-15.aspx
Feisty, what a lucky lucky lady Jody is. So happy she's there to see this very special President and First Lady.
I don't think the president will campaign here, nor should he. I would prefer he campaign in states that are close. And in MA, it ain't close.
Dennis, it is wonderful wonderful news. Thank you Rachel Maddow and Rev Al for bringing this story to the forefront.
Democracy. What a pity in the year 2012 we have to fight for it. But fight we will.
This phony republican voting law is no damned different than our freedom to bear arms. Like the guy on tv says: its profane. If a republican wins ANY race in Pennsylvania, you state citizens have not an american hair on your collective asses.
It pays-off to volunteer for OFA!
I agree!
I'm hoping to catch a rally when he comes to WI!
I will be working week-ends GOTV after labor day!
PS: Dennis - that is MOST excellent news! Thank your for sharing!
Pat,
even Faux News call this one:
Don't bet on Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney winning his home state or even trying.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/16/romney-giving-up-on-home-state-massachusetts/#ixzz23elkKEQF
Feisty, I've decided not to volunteer for President Obama this time. My time and energy is going with Elizabeth Warren, 100%. I will donate to the president, but my work will be with Elizabeth.
bayllie, Mitt never had a chance here. Never. I know so many Republican fundraisers in MA who won't lift a finger for Romney. Their dislike of him started with Mitt's treatment of Jane Swift, who had a partner in crime in the name of right wing radio host Howie Carr here in Boston to go after Swift.
The Republicans here didn't like it one.bit.
Pat,
I think that's a wise choice on your part!
If WI hadn't just ended up as a "toss-up" I probably would of been going to IA to lend a hand!
bob-1805084
And Ryan's plan for paying for whatever he voted for that was unfunded was what? Sorry pal but try as he can, he cannot dance.
What does fiscal conservatism mean to you? It sure as hell was not Ryan's record.
bayllie - I had to check to see which "home" state it was about! I would love to see him lose Utah! Heck - I'd love to see him lose all 50 state! LOL
This just in - Romney is slated to win the Cayman Islands - oh well, can't win them all - but you can buy a few!
Obama/Biden 2012
Feisty, a co-worker approached me the other day and he asked me which state I thought he should travel to in order to be the most helpful in the re-election of President Obama as far as getting out the vote on election day.
Florida was the first state that came to mind.
Pa has overturned another conspiracy theory used as a fear tactic. Or as I call it, "The Heart and Soul of Republican Strategy".
However, it doesn't make any difference, NitMitt is finished. The only thing that hasn't happened yet is the fat lady hasn't sung. So Concerned Citizen and Snuffy, why don't you put your teeth in an belt us a tune....
Pat - I think you're probably right. Florida would be a great state to help in.
Feisty - I'm sooooo jealous Jody is getting to see the President and First Lady! What a thrill!
Romney on the other hand - I was downtown near where he was the other day and I deliberately went in the opposite direction. Didn't even want to bump into him! Ugh!
Obama/Biden 2012
Please, do, waste your time in Florida.
I live there part time. Four years ago, by this time, all the "Hillary" bumper stickers had been replaced by "Obama" bumper stickers in Key West. Every house, every fence, had a sign.
Now? Well, the local elections are well represented. Everything from Mosquito Commission to U.S. Senate.
Nothing for president. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
Romney will not win Key West- though he may well win Monroe County, which is pretty republican. But if Key West is any indication of where liberals stand in Florida, In liberal bastions, there will be a lot of down ticket votes cast- but not very many top of the ticket votes. I suppose that will mean that liberals will be screaming about butterfly ballots, hanging chads, and all the rest of the nonsense- but the fact of the matter is, Key West does NOT support Obama. They don't support Romney, either- but they will simply withhold their presidential votes.
That's their right, as Americans. Deal with it.
That's their right, as Americans. Deal with it.
How about New Jersey? Never mind, the president is way way up in NJ.
Ohio? PA? NH? Colorado? Missouri?
You are the one that brought up funding on this thread about voter ID law. No mention of Ryan.
Sloppy deflection blackcat.
But regarding Ryan .... huh?
Do you want to argue TARP? Are you saying he has no plan like Obama?
Try to make a specific or coherent point.
Thanks.
Sure you do... along with your pet unicorn!
*winky wink*
I would ask you to stick to yakking about things you know about...
But... THAT would render YOU speechless!
Tell us Donna in Lincroft, NJ, did you grow up a pathological LIAR or is it something you embraced once you started collecting Social Security?
Seeking Sanity, thanks for your input. I think he probably will go to Florida. The president is up in PA, so we can
cross that state off.Hey
i want to thank the more classy (right) side of the aisle. I clearly lack
restraint when it comes to the fringe left, no tolerance for their collective
stupidity passing it off as the only way to think. They know who they are. Sure im no better but someone has to fight
fire with fire. There is a few on the
left that seem to have more civility then most on here. I appreciate the attempt at civil
discourse. With that said The libsrus
crew are certainly steaming piles of sh*t as far as im concerned. Having the nerve to call the right KKK
members but who has the clandestine hidey hole to discuss their hate? To get people collapsed and deleted. Talk about Poutrage when it happens to
them. Collapse cowards or something like
that.
I
enjoy reading a good discussion that isn’t one sided and thanks for that. Kudos
To
the LIBSRUS, UP YOURS DOOSHBAGS.
New Jersey will go Obama. Our economy is not as dependent on other people spending discretionary funds as Florida.
Romney's up in Colorado- and I think he takes it. I think he also takes Ohio, he definitely takes Indiana, Missouri, and North Carolina. He has a good shot at New Hampshire and Iowa.
Poor Pat. It's 2010 all over again.
Does anyone know what the voter ID requirements are for those who live in the State of Denial like Snookie-Joe?
Poor Pat.
Aw gee, thanks no joe.
btw, Romney?
He's gonna lose. It's 2008 all over again.
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
since you're the drag queen of that state, probably no requirements.
Well I know 9 votes for Romney in the liberal domain of West Palm.... I'm certain West Palm with their liberal slant will vote mostly for Obama, but my family will do our part to negate at least 9 liberal votes... Thank goodness not all of Florida is liberal... on the other coast in Naples through Tampa it's mostly conservative.. and Romney will carry the day on that side... Key West is in another galaxy.
Pat,
The $64K question is, how many incumbents Team Willard takes down in the process?
They are already running away from the ticket like scalded cats!
In chimes the unemployed parasite who sucks off the evwil gubment teat!
While screaming from the top of his little lungs about entitlements!
You reallly... really... really... CAN NOT make this sh!t up!
RCP (Average of polls) as of 8/13/2012
9 Swing States: Obama leads in 8, Romney leads in 1.
Delegates: Obama = Solid(142)+Likely(37)+Lean(58) = 237+Swing(95) = 332*
Delegates: Romney = Solid(76)+Likely(55)+Lean(60) = 191+Swing(15) = 206
Total Delegates: [332+206 = 538] Win = 270*
Romney needs 79 of the 110 swing state Delegates
Obama needs 33 of the 110 swing state Delegates
Feisty, to your last point, I have a story to tell you about Romney & Massachusetts that gets to the heart of what you said. However, I won't tell the story until the day after the election. But the story comes from the Republicans here in MA, not the Democrats.
It's quite amusing.
Holy batman Dennis, looks like no joe didn't get the memo that's been out for a few weeks now.
Scrumptious.. I can't wait!
Just in case I don't see you before Sunday... happy & safe travels to you my dear friend!
Enjoy your trip of a lifetime... we do however, want to hear all about it when you get back!
You're now the Doris Kearns Goodwin of First Read for nothing ya know! ;o)
When you hang upside down in a closet during daylight hours... would can we expect?
SeekingSanity
that's true, Romney has multiple home states. It's hard to keep track. I automatically think MA because it's where I live.
Pat Boston MA.
My mother-in-law who voted for Bush said she hoped Romney was not the candidate because she won't vote for him - this was back in December.
I have not met anyone here in the Auburn, MA area that will admit he/she likes Mitt.
Thank goodness not all of Florida is liberal... on the other coast in Naples through Tampa it's mostly conservative.. and Romney will carry the day on that side
Brian - McCain couldn't win Fla, and he was a much better candidate than this "@!$%# Wad" you're trying to pass off as presidential material.
Besides, read Dennis's electoral figures on his post. NitMitt is finished!!!!
Obama/Biden 2012
Uh, Dennis, I don't know what you are talking about, but
http://www.cleveland.com/newsflash/index.ssf/story/judge-hears-dispute-over-ohios-early-voting-rules/07590b9cd48d4592a9b08ae93dedfcb6
So, nobody- including the military- can vote during the weekend before the election- and you see that as a victory?
Pretty strange, liberal thinking. No wonder I don't understand it.
Thanks Feisty, I'm going off line now to pack. I have a huge pile just sitting here, knowing full well 1/2 of it isn't going to fit in the suitcase. LoL.
I'm leaving Fri morning at the crack of dawn. So I have to GET CRACKIN' WITH THE PACKIN'.
bob-1805084
It is obvious that there is no coherent point unless it agrees with your non-coherent point. Gee bob, did I bring up two separate thoughts? So sorry to confuse you. Gawd, who spawns these regressives?
how cute a bunch of liberal nut jobs blowing eachother. Yeah you libtards contribute so much. NoJoe smacks you guys down easily.
bayllie: I didn't realize you were from MA. As Lawrence O'Donnell would say, that's wicked awesome.
Dennis, you obviously do not grasp the concept of "toss up"- not swing- states.
These are states where the polling is within the margin of error. As in, you cannot call it for either candidate.
Take a look at the movement recently, though, Dennis, and you find that-
Missouri got put in the Romney column- from the "toss up" column.
Wisconsin went from "lean Obama" to "toss up" to "lean Obama"- and back to "toss up".
All Obama has are personal attack lies, fear mongeriing lies, and race card lies, (republicans will "put you back in chains". Really? That level of desperation is unheard of.)
I'm pretty sure he'll get a gig on this network- so you will be able to listen to his dulcet tones every night.
The rest of us will not. Obama will get the job he really wants- playing president on tv- and the country can actually begin to grow and prosper again.
Win win win.
yes cause 90's vernacular is the in style pat. are you libs all about cool and popular, you know the important things in canidates?
"......said Commonwealth Court Judge Robert Simpson, a Republican,...."
N'uff said, Eh 'activist' afficianados???
bayllie,
Why did you leave the democrats out of your list of voter fraud?
Voter fraud effect all of us, its only fair to point out both, don't you think?
Off topic and admittedly a bit personal, but I would like to thank Fiesty, New Day, Bruce, Beverly and many others (forgive me if I did not call all of you by name) who wished me well as I traveled to Chicago Monday for a job interview. The company made me a very handsome offer today, which I accepted, so again thank you all for your kind consideration.
PS You know what I think really helped me get the job, and this is kind of back on topic, I showed them my report card from kindergarten where it said "Forrest works well and plays well with others"!
Totas,
Rather than demeaning Bayllie, why don't YOU prove your accusation?
Come on now old gal, you have learned how to cut & paste!
Oh Forrest.... I for ONE could not be happier for YOU & Mrs. Grump!
Not to mention, maybe we'll be able to sit down and have a drink on one of your trips to my beautiful city! ☺
You are one of the biggest idiots and yet the lefties like you. how telling. Thetotas made no accusation. merely asked a question, not hardly an accusation. But tell me Feisty what is the accusation. I recommend you take a basic comprehension course, might help you when you attempt to belittle someone
No Joe,
The announcement was NOT about the lawsuit it was an announcement, late today, from the Republican SoS. If you even bothered to read the link it was a press release from his office and it was also covered in local 6:00 news.
.
Yes there were 12 tossup states 3 months ago then MO moved to Romney. Next MI went to Obama. Then AZ went to Romney followed by WI going to Obama, leaving 8 in tossup. After the VP pick WI moved back to tossup. Now there are 9.
Got it???
No Joe is full of Mitt
What do they say about any port in a storm?
No surprise, since her husband travels to get away from the old broad! ;o)
I'll sure I will be in Chicago again from time to time Fiesty and hope we can have that drink someday. The suburb I was in was truly really beautiful. Ha just one question, what is up with those toll roads, some people pay their toll and then drive as if they just rented time on a racetrack! Next time I am there I will have to see if Hertz has any Formula One cars you can rent.
Forrest,
Congrats, you deserve it.
Feisty,
Trying to stir the pot I see, nothing better to do?
thank you thetotas for being a civil person
Thank you Thetotas. The company's world headquarters is actually in your home state of California.
WTG Forrest! Good luck with the new job. I finally acquired one myself... doing what I know best... managing construction projects... Of course I had to accept it in New Orleans since Florida still doesn't have much growth and is still suffering from way too much finished real estate and no takers... But I hope they made you a great offer... I got more than I expected...
Good luck, FG.
Dennis, dear, Wisconsin moved back to toss up because of the Marquette poll- which has been trending against Obama for months. They went from Obama +8 to Obama +5- within their margin of error.
Ryan was the icing on the cake.
Thompson winning the primary was the cherry on top.
Kiss Wisconsin goodbye.
I have an inkling where you were! Most definetly, I want to buy you a drink! ☺
How about YOU learn how to run with the BIG dogs for a change?
I have my fill of WCA's victim mode and now YOU are riding his coat-tails!
Baby, either, walk the walk or STFU!
Pat Boston MA.
yes, I'm a raging Mass liberal
thetotas
because the Dems are not running around trying to make it harder for people to vote by claiming voter fraud.
I was simply showing the Republican (non-)voter fraud hypocrisy
Forrest Grump 2.0
obviously, well deserved. Congratulations!
No Joe,
Do you have poor reading comprehension skills or what?
I did NOT say that the Ryan pick caused it to move to Tossup.
I said it moved to Tossup after the Ryan pick – It moved on Monday Aug 8/13 which is a week after the Marquette and CBS/NYT/Q polls came out.
Pat Boston MA.
forgot to add: and as Toll Booth Willie would say: "Welcome to Worcester (Woosta)!"
bayllie - It makes no sense at all not to show identification at the voting booth... In order to buy beer, you have to prove you are over 21... to drive you have to have a drivers license... don't you think it's worth it to show ID when you vote? It sure would stop a lot of questions from people suspecting voter fraud... if all polling places made you show ID. I know I can't vote in Florida if I don't show my ID and my registration card... never once have I complained about it... nor has anyone else that I can tell while standing in line. I don't know of anyone that doesn't have a form of picture ID these days... It's really quite silly to think possessing ID is a wrong thing.
Thanks Brian, and congratulations on your new position. Yes they did make me a great offer, and you know how I am always complaining about people not get paid well enough. You know except for my small consulting business I have always been a union man and always had a great pay package and a full compliment of employer paid health, vacation, and retirement benefits. They definitely met that bar, and many people tell me here that I just expect too much for today's world, it actually exceeded what I expected (I have never been offered an excutive bonus structure before as a union member). I will be traveling for them a lot, 50% of my time, even outside the US at times (which I am not that wild about) but the good news is (and this was a possible sticking point), is that when I am not on the road, my office will be in my home. I went along with the international travel when necessary, and they went along with my office being in my home so that was a nice trade off. Now I got to take the spare bedroom and turn it into an office. I asked Mrs. Grump if she would be my secretary, she said "I have been your secretary for 30 years, am I finally going to get paid for it now."
I used the term executive bonus above, I should have said management, I am not in an executive position, I am in a supervisory position..
Thank you Bayllie.
If you are ever in Orange County give me a call. I am so happy for you. How is your wife doing, good I hope!
bayllie,
Know disrespect, I just think on an issue like this its good to point out both sides of the hypocrisy.
@NJNB thank you for the good luck wish.
@Thetotas she has had a lot of loss of loved ones in the last few years, she took really good care of her Mom right to the sad end. She is getter a little better each day but it takes time. I had taken a job locally busting my but with the tools like I did 20 years ago, so I would not be away from home and could be of some help to her and her mother, but I hated it, it liked to killed me, I know she was grateful, but at the same time I know she felt bad for me. I don't like to away from home for a few weeks at a time heck who does, but I have been doing that for pretty many years, and absence does make the heart grow fonder they say. I am happy with my new position, it is all about my area of expertise and interest, and I can tell she is happier that I'm happy. She also has our kids, and they always light her up, and they always keep in close contact with her when I am on the road.
Forrest,
All I can say is you're singing to the choir. I have been there, and done that. I was in a similar situation as yours. I also appreciated my husband for being there for me, but I knew it was killing him inside. I finally told him to go, and do what he had to do. At that time I needed to focus on my Mon without any distractions. Before I could turn around, he was gone. (kidding)
It works for us, and absence does make the heart grow fonder.
I am glad you found a job you enjoy , because know one want some grumpy man walking through the door at the end of the day.
Stay healthy!
There have not been enough cases of fraud to justify this voting ID law.
But this law can definitely disenfranchise a lot of voters who live in urban areas, are used to taking buses, and have not laid their hand on their driver's licenses yet.
WOW the GOP is pure evil.
Feisty,
How about YOU learn how to run with the BIG dogs for a change?
I have my fill of WCA's victim mode and now YOU are riding his coat-tails!
Baby, either, walk the walk or STFU!
What did I miss? Running with the big dogs? Can I remind you, ITS A BLOG! There is no need for theatrics, I am sure everyone get your point, Although I mush admit, its lost on me.
Geez lighten up.
The biggest issue is making confusing changes so close to the election date. That in itself should be reason enough to stop these laws at least for now.
One growing problem has been low voter turn-out, and here we are. Wow. Not a very good example of a democracy.
Pigotry -- Agreed, and in regard to Republicans to quote Ouiser Boudreaux: You are a pig from hell. ...You are evil, and you must be destroyed.
thetotas
nowhere did I ever claim that hypocrites are only on one side. What I do claim is that the Republicans are pretending there is voter fraud when there isn't one just so they can admittedly restrict votes that would not go to Romney. When you have someone like Mike Turzai, declare that this “is going to allow Gov. [Mitt] Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania,” you know what their agenda is.
A problem comes from the fact that judges are elected in Pennsylvania. You know when elections decide their tenure, they pander instead of delivering justice, this judge is a panderBear who panders the worse instincts of a majority - GOP majority.
Politics matters a lot, you voters need to show up in Novenmber 2012.
Obama/Biden 2012
Hey!
If you can't beat em... CHEAT em!
Study after study has proven incidents of in person voter fraud to be; 0.003%
Makes total sense the GNOP wants to spend millions fixing something that ain't BROKEN!
It would be funny if it wasn't so freakin SCARY!
how were the studies conducted? by whom? when? where? link, you'll forgive me if I dont take your WORD
Because we are smart enough to go check for ourselves. Maybe you ought to get some brains and start checking and then you wouldn't look like an uninformed ignoramus.
FrankH-1860605
Why are you being so nasty to Feisty Betty???
BTW over 70 % of Americans want this. That figure HAS to include at least some Democrats.
A News21 analysis of 2,068 alleged election-fraud cases since 2000 shows that while fraud has occurred, the rate is infinitesimal, and in-person voter impersonation on Election Day, which prompted 37 state legislatures to enact or consider tough voter ID laws, is virtually non-existent.
http://votingrights.news21.com/article/election-fraud/
wait the burden of proof is on feisty for making the "accusation" LOL
This is from the Washington Post.......1 in-person voter impersonation for every 15 million!...
Wow, gotta' stop ALL that fraud!
i bet there is less voter suppression still
From Politico
A majority of Democrats (52 percent), independents (72 percent) and Republicans (87 percent) supported voter ID laws as necessary.
Further, 50 percent of Americans said they believe opponents of voter ID laws were “trying to steal elections by increasing illegal votes by non-citizens and other ineligible voters,” compared to 45 percent who disagreed.
But respondents didn’t have the same concerns regarding the motives of those who supported voter ID initiatives: 62 percent said they did not believe those who backed voter ID laws were trying to “steal elections by decreasing legal votes from minorities,” compared with 34 percent who said the opposite.
Burden of proof? Pennsylvania state officials admitted at the outset of the case that they had absolutely no evidence of voter fraud in the past AND no reason to believe such fraud would occur if this law was NOT passed:
"When Pennsylvania officials begin their defense of the state's new voter identification law in court Wednesday, they will do so after agreeing to abandon a central argument for why such laws are needed.
In a Pennsylvania court filing, the state says it has never investigated claims of in-person voter fraud and so won't argue that such fraud has occurred in the past. As a result, the state says, it has no evidence that the crime has ever been committed.
The state also says it won't present "any evidence or argument" that in-person voter fraud is likely to occur on Election Day if the voter ID law isn't enacted."
http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/07/25/157327705/pa-wont-use-voter-fraud-argument-at-hearing-over-id-law
So then why did we need the law in the first place? Anyone???
REB-1013231
yes by sending all registered voters FREE ID cards.
yes but without making people jump through hoops - like the elderly in FL who were born in a different state or students attending colleges out of state.
The Twenty-fourth Amendment (Amendment XXIV) prohibits both Congress and the states from conditioning the right to vote in federal elections on payment of a poll tax or other types of tax.
now since Republicans are adamant about calling a fee for not having insurance a TAX, forcing people to pay a fee to get an ID to vote is a tax as well.
BTW, why aren't Republicans going after absentee voters????
Pennsylvania voters have requested nearly 127,000 absentee ballots so far. Of that total, Republican voters made up 50 percent and Democrats made up 42 percent.
doesn't take a much to figure this one out!
Caesar@ the burden of proof is on feisty for making the "accusation" LOL
Hey"Little Ass Monkey" -
The burden of proof was presented today in a Penna. court room..
Obama/Biden 2012
I ♥ ya GT... but PUHLEEZE stop feeding the ass monkey!
hey GT, you can suck Feisty's left one
How come the Goppers won all these states to begin with if all these mago mago election fraud did not prevent them from winning. As soon as they won they commenced their usual war on voters as they have done on women and the rest of society at large. Only the rich escape their madness. Whats wrong with this picture?
I ♥ ya GT... but PUHLEEZE stop feeding the ass monkey!
I'm sorry Feisty, but the little fellow's so cute, I can't help throwing him a peanut...LOL!!!
Obama/Biden 2012
Caesar Augustus-
Whoever the explicative deleted you are, you have diminished Augustus. Bravo Caesar.
No harm.. NO foul GT!
Just let the little bastard starve...
blackcatwhitecat
Caesar Augustus-
Yes blackcat i represent Caesar, just as much as you represent a four legged creature that licks its balls (not you Feisty). But you clearly represent the boorish libsrus crew well. Here i thought you had more integrity.
I am a meek soul imagining far worst punishment. Impaling on his own petard?
do your worst nermal. you are one of a cast of thousands of mean spirited azzholes that are part of the lib crew, i am merely just the opposite and equal reaction. Like i said I commend the right leaners like NoJoe that seem to not stoop to your level, has a rational discussion. I see very few on the left. I admit i am no better but never claimed to be.
Caesar
and you displayed that thought where? Oh I see, just an after thought. Before this turns into a lovers quarrel, I am not into licking balls, even mine if I could (darn). There are balls that have humour, Feisty has a great pair, yours are a shrivelled pair of humourless wannabes.
im over it blackcat. Feisty is a bully and idiot so keep IT. But check it out, your Idol fisty doesnt even know how to use the word accusation in a sentence right. Vale
Caesar Augustus-
You have a bust and I have idols? It is a small world and yet I am far from Roselle. Square the conundrum for me. Time to back off Caesar and I say this out of kindness.
veiled threats. not worried, anon blog, wont ruin my life. Nothing but a bully, i cant stand bullies. acting tough over the internet. Vale
bayllie
Crawford v. Marion County Election Board
In a 6-3 decision in 2008, the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the photo ID requirement, finding it closely related to Indiana's legitimate state interest in preventing voter fraud, modernizing elections, and safeguarding voter confidence.
Justice John Paul Stevens (a left leaning Justice) , in the leading opinion, stated that the burdens placed on voters are limited to a small percentage of the population, and were offset by the state's interest in reducing fraud. Stevens wrote in the majority:
"The relevant burdens here are those imposed on eligible voters who lack photo identification cards that comply with SEA 483. Because Indiana’s cards are free, the inconvenience of going to the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, gathering required documents, and posing for a photograph does not qualify as a substantial burden on most voters’ right to vote, or represent a significant increase over the usual burdens of voting. The severity of the somewhat heavier burden that may be placed on a limited number of persons—e.g., elderly persons born out-of-state, who may have difficulty obtaining a birth certificate—is mitigated by the fact that eligible voters without photo identification may cast provisional ballots that will be counted if they execute the required affidavit at the circuit court clerk’s office. Even assuming that the burden may not be justified as to a few voters, that conclusion is by no means sufficient to establish petitioners’ right to the relief they seek."
Justice Antonin Scalia states in his concurring opinion that the Supreme Court should defer to state and local legislators and that the Supreme Court should not get involved in local election law cases, which would do nothing but encourage more litigation:
"It is for state legislatures to weigh the costs and benefits of possible changes to their election codes, and their judgment must prevail unless it imposes a severe and unjustified overall burden upon the right to vote, or is intended to disadvantage a particular class."
Caesar
You impugn that I have some ability to ban those I disagree with. Had I that power it is I that i would ban first. I have looked into the abyss and it has looked back at me.
Where are the Gods to tell me that I am wasting my time speaking to those with marble ears?
The phlamingo goddess is here and watching and listening my sweet little pussy cat.l Think pink.
The first Ceasar Augustus had no integrity, why should a second expect any?
Disgraceful what is happening in our country. All courtesy of the Republican Party. There is NO ONE they won't go after.
Women, children, poor, working class, gays, middle class, social security, medicare, public educations, unions, health care.
Now voter suppression.
But by all means, let's keep our guns.
After all, they DO have their priorities.
Pat, I don't think they can even call themselves a party any longer. I've been reading so many articles lately on how fractured they have become and the damage that it continues to do to this country. It's downright frightening.
So how is showing a picture id at your voting precinct voter suppression??
The hard cold fact is there is NO reasonable explanation for not showing an picture id at the precinct, just scare tactics but no PROOF...
Just more bat sh-t crazy left wing nut job bovine fecal matter!!
...says the guy who loses his wallet on election day...whoopsie!
requiring a picture ID that you have to pay for is nothing more than an unconstitutional poll tax. That is why it is being called voter suppression.
Now, if the state were to provide the ID to all citizens when they registered to vote, i woudln't have a problem with voter ID laws, but because they are doing it in an underhanded, admittedly politically motivated way it reeks of suppression to "give (enter voter id law state here) to Mitt Romney." It is the same as the republican districts in Ohio having expanded voting hours, but the democrat leaning districts having restricted voting hours. It is an obvious ploy for voter suppression in districts that tend to vote agaisnt the republican party.
claiming that voter fraud is rampant and these laws will prevent it is the bat sh-t crazy right wing nut job bovine fecal matter.
To my knowledge, no, but i could be wrong...
i do know that for some of these laws, an NRA membership card counted as a valid ID, but a student ID did not. That alone tells me that it is nothing more than a suppression tactic from the right.
Buckaroo -
The ID's themselves are free here in PA. However, one of the requirements to get the ID is to present a valid birth certificate. If yours was lost, or (like me) you only ever had a photocopy (I have no idea what my parents ever did with the original and they're both dead now), you need to apply for a new one, and in Pennsylvania, that means:
"The fee for each certified copy of birth is $10.00. An additional $10.00 service fee per each application will be charged to your credit card.
The birth record(s) or a response to your request will automatically be shipped by UPS Air unless you select regular mail delivery for the Shipping Option. If you do not change the Shipping Option to regular mail, the UPS Air delivery fee will be charged to the credit card used for ordering the certificate. A signature is required for UPS delivery."
Further, the ID must be obtained at an official PENNDOT photo location. There are only three of these in my entire county, and they're 5, 6, and 9 miles respectively away from my house. That's not a problem for me, as I drive and have a license anyway - but if you don't, you need to add transportation costs in there, too.
And to add to what Tzarlan said, the problem with a lot of student ID's is that our new law says they have to have an expiration date on them, which many colleges do not include.
Bottom line is, this law is a mess. And it was never needed in the first place.
foreign students wouldn't be on the voter rolls though. The ID is supposed to be to verify you are who you claim to be walking into the polls. would it really matter if a foreign student id was used if they aren't on the voter roll? no, they wouldn't be able to vote. Therefore, suppression tactic.
When I registered to vote I had to show that I met the qualifications. Then it was I had to be 21 by election day and a citizen living in that community. My name was on the book where I had to put my signature before they gave me a ballot.If my signature doesn't match what is on file I don't get to vote. If my name is not in the precinct book I don't get to vote. If I want to vote I have to go to city hall and request to vote there. At that time I have to show proof of ID which they would check before I am allowed to vote. With absentee voters anything that looks wrong and the ballot is flagged for investigation and even the slightest mistake or any doubt the ballot is null and void. I have only had to show ID once as a test run and results were the same as when I didn't have to show ID. There was NO voter fraud.
Republicans whine and moan about spending too much money on stuff that doesn't exist or doesn't matter and they spend millions on this non-issue. Even if, by any chance, there is one or two votes that are fraudulent they very rarely would make any difference in the outcome of an election. That is common sense, after all. This voter ID scheme is merely an attempt by the far right wing extremist Fascist wannabes to disenfrancise voters who they belive will vote against them. It is crystal clear that is what it is. It reminds one of the poll tax and the tests that people had to take in decades past with the intent of keeping African Americans and others of color from voting. This stuff is nothing new. W
What must be done is for Democrats to step up and pay for the IDs if the person can't afford them, get them to city hall or wherever to get an Id, passport or whatever they need. Finally to take them to the polls so that they can indeed excercise their Constitutional Right to Vote.
Never before in our over 200 years of free elections have people been forced to show picture id. Why now and why this election? Could it be the Republicans know they have to pull out all of the dirty tricks to win? Won't work. Your candidate's a loser and you guys know it.
Amy B. Portland, ME
Amy the last thing that I would be worrying about if I were to loose my VR on election Day, would be to vote. LOL
Can't help but wonder: how many folks who may not find it so easy to produce their "papers" might have voted Republican?
Ronald Reagan wouldn't have been able to vote under most of these laws... for example.
@Tzalaran,
Reagan wouldn't pass the so-called "Conservative Purity Test" either.
Bali Bob - no sane person passes the "Conservative Purity Test." Heck no sane person even tries to be a Republican any more!
Not even Romney. He's the definition of a RINO, which was the buzzword of the tea nuts not long ago. What happened to that? Oh, that's right. It's not about electing a person you believe in anymore.
"Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania--done." *applause*
Never forget that video.
The next step in voter ID requirements is, "If you see something, say something!" A cross match of voter IDs and outstanding warrants will alert police to pick up anyone with a couple of parking tickets, a bounced check, or delinquent child support. (Ouch, that last one may keep even a few Republicans away from the polls.)
Okay, that's a little over-the-top conspiracy theory, but you can bet some folks will have that in mind. We're losing our privacy and the folks that hate big government the most are the very ones pushing for these new restrictions.
@Ursula,
The Party that is supposed to be all about "Freedom" seems to be focused on taking away "Liberty" from folks who do not agree with them.
Curiouser and curiouser....
It is called F A C I S M. There are people controlling the once grand old party who fit that word nicely. The traditional Republican party seems very ill, if not dead so what is one to expect? I am all for a multi party system I just hope the Republicans can recover from their sickness or a new party can be formed for the "I Like IKE" crowd, those majority that hover near the center.
Ursala, it happened in my neck of the woods. It was a language issue and if you could not respond adequately you were pulled aside until the polls were closed and then you were given the freedom to vote. Lovely, eyes dotted and tees crossed ... we must disenfranchise the unbelievers.
Yeah antler, just like the democrat party is hijacked by staunch Stalin supporters
How is it that the Iraqi's held a legitimate election, and we act like a 3rd world nation who doesn't know how? Makes not a bit of sense to me.
Who is this jugge kidding' its obivous he has been bought out by GOP.
Don, the article says the judge is a Republican. No more needs to be said.
Adler - probably didn't even need to read to guess that one!
Bought and paid for. I bet Grover sent him a nice stipend for his effort. They (the Republicans) think they're fooling people. They have nitwits, like the ones posting on here, acting as their "brownshirts" and spewing about freedom in one hand, while trying to take away other American's freedom to vote. Sounds very much the deep south in the early sixties. We all know how that turned out.
Georgia implemented this supposedly evil voter suppression tactic of requiring voter ID...and minority participation increased.....
75% of the public support this common sense requirement.
All this to stop 12 people who voted illegally from 2000-2012.
Why are there currently over 40 states that have lawsuits against acorn? Ya know the democratic supported local terriost group?
It was the correct ruling. Those who opposed the voter id laws claim the other side presented little evidence of fraud. They presented no evidence to support their side. That would be voter suppression. It is ridiculous to think people can't get free id from the state.
It looks like the race is going to be closer in Pennsylvania than projected. I predict it's going to join Wisconsin and go red.
"'Folks, where's it written we cannot lead the world in the 20th century in making automobiles?,"
-Joe "Plugs" Biden August 15, 2012....the second decade of the 21st century.
Scary that someone as ignorant as Joe Biden could one day become president. That'll be some big effing deal. If he can remember when and where he is. But stupid bimbos like Feisty and Beverly would still vote for him. And let him say ignorant crap to blacks. But then, what would we expect from 2 fat welfare hobags.
This is a TOTAL DISGRACE TO DEMOCRACY in this Country. The Republicans have an INEPT Candidate, and all of the BILLIONAIRES MONEY WITH CITIZENS UNITED, Corporations are People.
That is not ENOUGH SO THEY HAVE TO WIN DIRTY BY SUPPRESSING THE VOTE of CERTAIN CITIZENS TO WIN AT ALL COST.
Not a frikkin' chance. Eastern PA, including Philadelphia, will never support a vulture capitalist like Romney. Doubtful western PA would either. Read other than Rasmussen or FOX polls.
Never say never. The left said Walker would never survive the recall. The left said the Republicans would never be in the majority again following the coronation of "The One"
Why would I care what the slanted polls had to say? They're like Soledad O'Biased conducting an interview with guidance from Talking Point Memo, they already know the outcome they desire.
That doesn't make it true. I believe the good people of Pennsylvania are pretty much like me. They want a better future for their children and grandchildren than the one Obama is offering. They will continue professing the Democrat ticket but they will quietly vote for the Romney/Ryan ticket.
Just like Artur Davis.
Re-guard less your party these are american RIGHTS & peoples rights are being taken away,We as a nation should be totally outraged!Totally.
I can't believe that republicans are passing these un-american laws!!!!!!!!!!!I
The folks who live in these voter suppressed states should be screaming their heads off! Pa.Oh.Fl.Ia.& Co. This is not right & all of us know it.No matter which party your voting for this is un american & none of us should be complacent.
Any party will pick you up to vote, register to vote or even get an ID to do that. The only. Any party should agree with that except a party that wants to commit fraud or cheating of our precious American election system as democrats want to at every turn.
Untill obama you needed ID for welfare and foodstamps. Well then that is 89% of democratic voters have ID's then!
Frakin won by just over 300 votes yet it has been proven that over 1000 felons illegally voted in that election. Any party should want more care taken with these elections after that unless you are a party that depend on fraud and decit.
In PA here's what I predict since they are comparing DL to Voter Registration and have said that there are descrepicies totalling around 9% which is a significant amount of votes.
Some in that category when voting will be classified as "Provisional Votes"
Just like in FL these provision votes were court ruled not to be tabulated.
If you want the Presidential Election decided by the courts, who in this case will most likely be the Conservative Supreme Court....they take the Election away from the people.
Those that support this are effectively taking away our rights to a free and fair election.
I suspect this election will be tainted with multiple lawsuits by both parties and will hang in the balance for months - all because of a minucule amount of proven voter fraud....something like less than a 100 cases nation wide.
Good Job Republicans, way to support the Home of the Free.
Okay, this would prevent my aunts from voting as thier PA state issued birth certificate are not considered VALID as they do not have a raised seal, and in order to get a NEW one issued it's a wait of up to 9 months.... Makes me happy I don't live in PA
In Pa it is free if you can not afford an Id, also many organizations are offering free shuttles for the ids, what is your excuse now?
Clare 9 months really, I can get a raised seal in less than 6 weeks. I will put granny on the clock now.