FEED ME, FEED ME

The classic cult film "Little Shop of Horrors" was a musical about a carnivorous plant named Audrey II, a shy young man named Seymour, and Audrey, a young lady whom Seymour secretly loved. Seymour pricked his finger and a drop of blood was eaten by the plant. As the story progressed Audrey II wanted more and more blood and for economic reasons Seymour was obliged to feed the plant.

That plant certainly reminds me of the Tea Party with its insatiable need to be fed. Without concern for the well-being for its host, they demand lower taxes, smaller government, congressional gridlock, and removal of entitlements. Recently they placed considerable pressure on Mitt Romney to pick Paul Ryan. Over the weekend Willard succumbed to the Tea Party demands and selected Paul Ryan as his running mate.

In the movie the plant grew bigger and bigger, became more demanding, and eventually ate Seymour and his girlfriend, Audrey. On Saturday the Tea Party consumed Willard Romney. Romney might have had a chance if he had picked Rob Portman to possibly carry Ohio. (Republicans must win in Ohio to gain the Presidency.) With Ryan on the ticket Romney will lose Florida, another swing state. Seniors in Florida may not be affected by the Romney/Ryan budget, but their children and grand kids would be devastated by Ryan's voucher system. Seniors love their grand kids more than they like Romney and Ryan.

In the film the plant grew, multiplied and wanted to take over the world. Fortunately the musical is only fiction and the real life story has a very different ending. It is becoming apparent that the Tea Party has caused grave damage to its host, the Republican Party.

Hey Bill in Fairfax -- How do you rationalize allowing the Romney's of the world to pay ZERO taxes?

The Ryan plan calls for eliminating the capital gains tax. Most income for the rich and wealthy derives from CAPITAL GAINS. Hedge fund managers wouldn't pay a dime in taxes either.

Ben, you are incoherent this morning. Do try to wake up, maybe have some coffee and try again.

Hey DCIA, I am curious, how do you feel about General Motors paying no taxes in 2011 and for the next several years as they continue to write off their "Bankruptcy" that was funded by the taxpayers.

$42 Billion dollars in the hole today for US Taxpayers.

You OK with that?

Ok, I'm a big enough man to admit I was wrong. I thought Romney would pick T-paw and left to his own choice I still believe he would have. But I could not be happier that he chose to ignore his own feelings and follow the advice of his advisers and pick Ryan to bolster his conservative cred.

In my opinion the only way he could have done worse would have been to pick Palin or Bachman.

AND...I don't think Mr. Romney is convinced he made the right choice. I saw a little of the coverage Saturday morning when they made the announcement. Romney's face was tense and looked strained. He almost looked like he was thinking "I hope I didn't screw up."

Ryan will upstage Romney. Among the true believers Ryan is like a GOD! Mitt Romney, not so much. Just look at the welcome they got in Wisconsin. Ryan..oops, I mean Romney drew the biggest crowd of his campaign.

There will be tension between these two. Tension over Ryan's popularity, over Mitt's Religion, and over the strong negative reaction to Ryan's economic plan. I noticed Romney had the good sense NOT to take Ryan to Florida with him. Too many retirees in Florida who don't like Ryan's plans for Medicare I'll bet.

All this is good news for the good guys and bad news for the bad guys. Which is the way it ought to be.

This race just got a whole lot more interesting, and in a good way for us.

Happy days, kiddies, happy days. I'm glad I was wrong, this is great!

Obama/Biden 2012

Lefie liberals--great way to start the week!

Paul Ryan has spent roughly 25 years in Congress starting as a clerk and working his way to elected House member. It should not go without mention, that in the words of conservatives, Paul Ryan has never held a "real job."

Why is Mitt Romney hiding his tax returns? What are Paul Ryan's finances--he had to release more years of taxes to Mitt Romney than Romney is willing to release to American voters. Does Mitt think Ryan will change the subject? It can't and won't, in fact, there will be more scrutiny because under the Ryan Budget which Mitt called "marvelous", Romney will no longer pay 14% taxes but will pay 0.82%, less than 1% while average families will pay around $2,000 per year in taxes. Romney-Ryan Hood, rob from the 98% to pay the 2%.

Has the Ryan choice backfired already? The Florida headlines were extremely negative. So negative that the previously planned Romney/Ryan Florida events are now just Romney and Ryan is at the Iowa State Fair today.

Revenge -- You are so correct. The greatest generation is smart enough to see they will not be affected. They are also have the protective instincts and intelligence to know that Medicare in its present form will not be there for their children and grandchildren. Let's give the youth of this country choices. In fact let's give them the same choices federal employees have.

Lefties, liberals, Democrats, and particularly, centrists and moderates - WAKE UP! Paul Ryan is NOT going to mobilize independents and those to the left of center to vote for President Obama. He is however, a GREAT pick for Republicans.

Ryan's appeal is to the most extreme and ignorant elements of the G.O.P., and that is no small number. Indeed, the splinter groups that comprise the right wing are slobbering all over themselves in ecstasy. Virtually every position Ryan takes is based on the destruction of the government with two exceptions. The first is his devotion to the nation's killing machine - the military/industrial complex. The second is his dedication to the complete destruction of women as independent human beings via government control, oppression, and intrusion.

Ryan is the male equivalent of Sarah Palin. He is so far removed from the lefty view that lefties believe he has no base. Open your eyes! The chasm between left and right is so huge that neither right nor left can imagine their opposition has so much as a molecule of gray matter between their ears.

Consider this scary thought. Those who frequent this board know that no amount of advertising is going to change their vote. The most fabulous commercial put forward by Obama's supporters is not going to move the likes of Joe HAHAHA or Ben lotsanumbers. Similarly, a spectacular Romney ad is not going to move Feisty or Backhouse to the Romney camp.

What's left? By now, the thinking voters know the facts. It's the idiots who will make their decision based on an ads that will assault us for the next few weeks and are nothing more than platitudes or mud.

Here's the job lefties. Cut through the crap and the high-sounding rhetoric and understand what must be done. You must recruit an idiot to the Obama camp before a right-winger gets that idiot into the Romney camp.

No matter how many times politicians and/or pundits intone, "The American voter is smart," it won't change the truth. The majority of American voters don't have a clue.

There aren't many comments here praising any of Obama's accomplishments while forming comparison's and opinion's. Most are just "scare tactics" regarding SS and medicare being cut by Romney/Ryan if elected. Not a very persuasive way to sway undesided voters.

Yes,

Commonsense always wins out in the end. Romney/Ryan 2012!

NO WCA, I AM NOT okay with that. The problem is in our TAX CODE. The Ways and Means committee could clean the entire thing up but because they are BOUGHT and PAID FOR by the RICH through lobbyists it will never happen.

I don't know how it will turn out politically, but for me, I'm very happy with the Ryan pick. This makes me think Romney is serious about my #1 concern - the deficit. I don't like all parts of Ryan's budget plan, but at least he's put something out there that can be debated.

Hopefully this will help transform this election into a debate about ideas, and less of a mud slinging contest.

WeRdoomed4stupidity

And your an idiot Jody

Why are all the RWNJs so upset this morning?

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

I woke up Saturday morning feeling like I just won the lottery! ☺

Thank you Willard for giving us Paul Ryan as your running mate!

Have you ever observed a jealous boyfriend or girlfriend try to mask it by unreasonable optimism and cheer? Thats what the lib reaction to this reminds me of. I think Romney hit this one out of the park!

The other stuff you have just made up...

I guess I'm not the only one who thinks this.

Lipstick on a pig.

Skip, when I heard the news Saturday, thought about your post. You weren't the only one who figured it would be T-Paw. While Ryan can put coherent sentences together, he is the equivalent of Sarah Palin for the reasons you mentioned. The biggest flaw in modern conservative thinking is the belief that everyone really thinks as they do. Guess that is what happens when ideology becomes so entrenched that conservatives can only see their own glory.

I had this discussion over the weekend. . .

My father, a lifelong liberal, thinks it is great that Paul Ryan was the veep pick. Why? Because now, the TRUTH about his Medicare proposal will be out.

See, if you are 55 or over if and when it is enacted- nothing changes for you.

If, however, nothing is dne, if you turn 65 in 12 years, you are facing a world of hurt- because there will be no Medicare. It will be gone. Pfffft. Bankrupt.

So, if my lifelong liberal father sees that, what's wrong with the rest of the liberals? For those of you who continually insist on leveling the charge that somehow, this proposal hurts seniors, I have a proposition:

Go up to any 54 year old woman you know- sister, aunt, neighbor, co-worker- and tell her she is a senior citizen.

Then duck.

WCA -- I'm a strong advocate for cleaning up the TAX CODE and have always spoken out against Business getting away with paying nothing in taxes.

I don't make up things, EVER.

Bitterhawk and WCA -- Care to back up those statements that I make things up?

WCA -- WTF are you talking about here?

because you believe "someone" who told Harry Reid.

Nancy Pelosi - "Somebody told him. It is a fact".

WeRDoomed, if you're going to call me an "idiot", at least be grammatically correct and type "you're".

Jody, wouldnt have changed the message.

Hey white collar auto, you think Feisty understands what being a hypocrite is or is it willful ignorance on its part?

The left-wing are quaking with fear, angry as crazed hornets, and are carpet bombing this thread like their lives depended on it.

But it's a lot easier to fill up a comments section with left-wing drivel than it is to fill a voting booth with voters. ;)

Willard knew there was no way he could get votes to win or even come close to getting 15% of the votes. Instead he brought in a Teabagger that would get him the extreme right votes thus not appearing so out classed in this election

I dont know if I would put it this way...but you are right! I suspect the independents whome are not so loyal to party will pick the new hope and change candidate. I think it was a wise move by Romney

As a middle class citizen I will not vote for President Obama this year.

Kind of tired about unemployment at 8.3% being spun as we're headed in the right direction and people buying into the fact that this is status quo.

We have more people than ever receiving some kind of government subsidy and our debt is close to equaling our GDP - the value of the dollar suffers.

We have finger pointing, blame, misdirection and shady re-election tactics versus a true experienced leader with some economic sense and the ability to consider moderate approaches to problem solving.

The fact that many people accept this country status as our "new norm" makes me nervous for our country.

Ben: let me be the first to reassure you. Biden is the Vice President, and will be the Vice President.

Now, do join us in the real world.

David Walker:

What's left? By now, the thinking voters know the facts. It's the idiots who will make their decision based on an ads that will assault us for the next few weeks and are nothing more than platitudes or mud.

While I like to think that most independents are "low information" voters rather than idiots, I agree that the attack ads could have a major impact. But the ads are only part of the problem. While Romney's ads will concentrate on lying about Obama's welfare policies, and so forth, the corporate media will do puff pieces on Paul Ryan for free. For a long time already, he's already been portrayed as an expert on the economy when the truth is that his background in economics is shallow.

During the weekend, CNN repeatedly showed snippets of an exchange with President Obama to suggest that Ryan could go up against the president man-to-man intellectually, but the snippets were so short it was impossible to even tell what Obama and Ryan were arguing about. All you could gather was that Ryan was talking back to Obama, which CNN thought was sufficient to show that Ryan was a "serious" challenge to Obama.

The truth not reported by CNN is that during a 2010 exchange on the budget deficits, Ryan blamed Obama for the deficit increase and Obama retorted that almost all of the deficit increases were due to spending on programs related to the recession that were automatically triggered by law, such as increases in food stamps and unemployment programs. Ryan had no reply because Obama was right and Ryan was just clueless. The Chicago Tribune (a Republican paper) had an article today that noted the president was widely viewed as the winner of that debate with Ryan, but you'd never know that from the CNN puff piece.

Ryan showed again how clueless he is by attacking Obama for the "worst recovery in seventy years" in his appearance with Romney as V.P. candidate. This economic genius that the media are gushing over apparently doesn't know that the worst recession in seventy years was preceded by the worst RECESSION in seventy plus years, a.k.a "the Great Depression." Despite his alleged brilliance, Ryan doesn't seem to have figured out that recoveries from more severe recessions take longer than recoveries from milder recessions, and the Bush Recession was the worst recession in seventy years. But the pundits and political journalists don't seem to notice little things like that. They're too busy doing all that gushing.

USA1967...

Ditto...funny, indeed!

Romney/Ryan 2012!

Aw shucks, thanks Mitt, that's the best birthday present a fellow could have.

You just handed the race to the President on a silver platter and I couldn't be happier about it.

Happy Birthday to ME!

Obama/Biden 2012

WOW TT,

You probably voted for bush43 both times and now you dont like the results. Typical!

The pick of Ryan proves the "tea baggers" do not like or trust Romney. Ryan will energize this particular bunch, meaning, more of 'em will vote. Since the real ramifications of Ryan's Social Security and Medicare plans will have to come from democrats, most Seniors will not believe it. Most old white people will vote for republicans over a black man any day. Old people, like most Americans, don't particularly give a damn about those who will become eligible recipients in the future, so long as they can hold onto what they have now. A Ryan/Romney Presidency will be, as was the Cheney/Bush deal, a death blow to this republic. Yes, I did say a Ryan/Romney Presidency. That is what the country will have if the election goes their way, and the republicans know it. They will vote for Romney to get the governance of Ryan. That's what this pick was about. And It's about a helluva lot more than taking care of "old people". It's more about the final killing of what is left of the middle class. It's about the total suppression of women's rights to self determination relative to their bodily functions. It's about the establishment of religious dogma over scientific inquiry. It's about keeping a "booted heel" on the necks of all homosexuals and the indigent. It's about totally changing Federal Government into a tool for the exclusive use of the wealthy. As progressive democrats the most important question we should be asking ourselves is; does the selection of this "Weasel" energize us enough to go out and vote in large enough mass to defeat this "tax evading Simpleton", and His illustrious "jack booted Weasel"? For the benefit of American life, the Republic, and Ourselves, we must.

Or tell me why Obama has yet to release his birth certificate,

Sorry, I don't engage with "birthers"...

Impossible to have a reasonable conversation with the certifiable! ;o)

Later!

I am the one calling you out

Stop listening to those little voices in your head! lol

lololololololol....did not see one liberal head explode anywhere.......I did see the dumbest man on the planet choose the biggest tool for his running mate.....I could not be happier, it's all over now GOP! Thank GOD! no really Lele Wopila Tunka! It was worth it all to see the racist destroyers finally get their due.

and confirm the wisdom of my decision to start shifting more of my retirement investments out of solely US based companies and into multi-national and foreign companies.

Let's see .. all those foreign companies based in places like Canada, Great Britain, Germany, Sweden, Norway, New Zealand, Argentina, France, Australia, Japan, Thailand all with Universal Health Care, and Social Security type retirement systems. Thank the lord you took your pennies and invested them into countries that do not represent the cesspool of society with all those social programs.

I CAN POINT at most anything or everything in Obama's administration but I can see and say only one thing that makes since!!!! It has not WORKED......................... Hello??? It has not WORKED!!!! Libs can say this or that about Romney but what Obama has done has not WORKED........................................................................

i realy wish he had of been smart enough to have picked ron paul as his running mate. they would have balanced each other out in office. what we see running now for our next presidential candidates are two people that will give large corporate hand outs from our tax dollars. two people that will create and push through horrible gun law legislation.

basicly now we are stuck voting for obama or voting for two nutless crazy religous wackos that dont care about the middle class.

keep collapsing my comments, just means I will get more viewing from others LOL...thats why i dont collapse, it has the opposite effect.

Feisty you don't engage with anyone right of Ho Chi minh

It makes me laugh to read extreme conservatives and real republicans try to use unemployment numbers against Obama when you look at the facts, when Mr. Obama took office unemployment was at a fast climbing 7.6% and was finally stabilized at around 8.0 - 8.6%.

When the Bush regime took office, unemployment was fluctuating around 3.6% - 4.6% and their train wreck drove us up to 7.6% and climbing daily by January 2009.

The good news about one extremist with no guts to voice the republicans real intentions for america should they win office and a majority is that by voting in another extremist even more extreme than himself is that this Paul Ryan has no problem telling women, the middle class, the elderly, the latinos and the gay community amongst others, exactly what his intentions are for them should the tea party get enough votes to take control of our country.

The country may be in bad shape, but Romney and Ryan represent the wrong prescription that put us in this mess in the first place.

There is no going back.

Bentbrass -- You do understand if all the well and rich left the traditional Medicare program that would INCREASE the cost of that program for those in it?

It's like any other insurance program in that in order to keep COSTS down you have to have the sick and well participating.

Additionally, if you look at the Ryan plan the VOUCHERS will only cover a portion of the cost of a for profit plan or the traditional. That leaves all the poor seniors on the hook for thousands of dollars in costs and no WAY TO PAY FOR IT. Most are on fixed incomes.

Sorry, I don't engage with "birthers"...

Impossible to have a reasonable conversation with the certifiable! ;o)

Laughable how you ignored being completely refuted yet responded like a child. Once again respond if you can, tell us about the Obama plan on important subjects such as our budget? This is real life not 3rd grade recess, so have a real conversation instead of your petty cut downs.

Reposting due to collapse holes.

Debbie -- Spot on. Republicans are big on VOUCHERS.

Vouchers for healthcare, vouchers for education, etc.

Republicans would have these "bread lines" for just about everything.

What is Paul Ryan's Medicare plan's biggest selling point?

"Oh, if you're 55 or older don't worry, it won't apply to you."

But what if I'm 54 or 50 or 45 or 40.......?

"Well, we don't care about you, we figure the seniors will throw you under the bus and vote for this thing".

And people think this is good because at least it's a plan? If this plan is so good, why doesn't anyone 55 or over get to enjoy it's great benefits?

It's a plan to screw anyone younger than 55, and those of us who are over 55 will NOT throw the younger generation under the bus.

Will Romney flip-flop AGAIN and distance himself from the Ryan budget?

Romney/Ryan....I mean Ryan/Romney.....the scary ones.

@Richard....."makes since"??

Uh, Richard, epic fail Dude, epic fail.

On these boards you can hold your tongue and let people think you are a moron or open your mouth and remove all doubt.

You chose the latter. Bad choice. Click "ignore".

Obama/Biden 2012 It makes sense!

StoptheCannibals-2908428,

I applaud your post of 1.93. Thank you for your support. Should the conservatives get their way, we both know that once they got into power, that over 55 timeline would simply disappear and it would also apply to those over 55 as well.

The scary thing is not that the 3 Rs (RomneyRyanRepublicans) might actually be able to defeat Obama. No, the scary thing is that Ryan's plan will now go mainstream. The defeat of that plan in one election is no guarantee that it will be defeated in the next. We're looking at a long-term battle, folks.

Eric

Miami of Ohio fails plagerists. Your party promotes them!

As a middle class citizen I will not vote for President Obama this year.

Kind of tired about unemployment at 8.3% being spun as we're headed in the right direction and people buying into the fact that this is status quo.

And what did you think about the 10% unemployment rate just after Bush left? You want to go back to that?

So, after carpet bombing attack ads during the Republican primaries, Mitt wants to take his ball and go home. What a joke.

Since the President is getting traction on his tax returns, offer a deal- 4 more years of tax returns for all of the Presidents college records (financial, applications, transcripts, etc.). Say I'll give you 4 years for your records.

NYJoe, how about we get Romney's tax returns AND his college transcripts too? We'd like to know how he did in school too and how Romney got his deferments for Vietnam running around in France.

By STEVE PEOPLES 06/05/12 12:53 PM ET

Though an early supporter of the Vietnam War, Romney avoided military service at the height of the fighting after high school by seeking and receiving four draft deferments, according to Selective Service records. They included college deferments and a 31-month stretch as a "minister of religion" in France, a classification for Mormon missionaries that the church at the time feared was being overused. The country was cutting troop levels by the time he became eligible for the draft, and his lottery number was not called.

President Barack Obama, Romney's opponent in this year's campaign, did not serve in the military either. The Democrat, 50, was a child during the Vietnam conflict and did not enlist when he was older.

But because Romney, now 65, was of draft age during Vietnam, his military background – or, rather, his lack of one – is facing new scrutiny as he courts veterans and makes his case to the nation to be commander in chief. He's also intensified his criticism lately of Obama's plans to scale back the nation's military commitments abroad, suggesting that Romney would pursue an aggressive foreign policy as president that could involve U.S. troops.

A look at Romney's relationship with Vietnam offers a window into a 1960s world that allowed him to avoid combat as fighting peaked. His story also demonstrates his commitment to the Mormon Church, which he rarely discusses publicly but which helped shape his life.

Romney's recollection of his Vietnam-era decisions has evolved in the decades since, particularly as his presidential ambitions became clear.

He said in 2007 – his first White House bid under way – that he had "longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam." But his actions, Selective Service records and previous statements show little interest in joining a conflict that ultimately claimed more than 58,000 American lives.

Still, he repeatedly cites his commitment to public service and the nation's military while campaigning for president.

"Greatness in a people, I believe, is measured by the extent to which they will give themselves to something bigger than themselves," Romney said in San Diego last week to a Memorial Day crowd of thousands, flush with military veterans of all ages.

He did not address his own Vietnam history that day. And his campaign has refused to comment publicly on the subject over the past week.

Political rivals, military veterans among them, suggest that Romney's own decision not to serve in the military is in conflict with his pro-military rhetoric.

"He didn't have the courage to go. He didn't feel it was important enough to him to serve his country at a time of war," said Jon Soltz, who served two Army tours in Iraq and is the chairman of the left-leaning veterans group VoteVets.org.

Critics note that the candidate is among three generations of Romneys – including his father, former Michigan Gov. George Romney, and five sons – who were of military age during armed conflicts but did not serve.

As a presidential candidate in 2007, Romney told The Boston Globe he was frustrated, as a Mormon missionary, not to be fighting alongside his countrymen.

"I was supportive of my country," Romney said. "I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there, and in some ways it was frustrating not to feel like I was there as part of the troops that were fighting in Vietnam."

Indeed, Romney strongly supported the war at first. As a freshman at Stanford University, he protested anti-war activists. In one photo, he's shown in a small crowd of students, smiling broadly, wearing a sport jacket and holding up a sign that says, "Speak Out, Don't Sit In."

But the frustration he recalled in 2007 does not match a sentiment he shared as a Massachusetts Senate candidate in 1994, when he told The Boston Herald, "I was not planning on signing up for the military."

"It was not my desire to go off and serve in Vietnam, but nor did I take any actions to remove myself from the pool of young men who were eligible for the draft," Romney told the newspaper.

But that's exactly what Romney did, according Selective Service records. He received his first deferment for "activity in study" in October 1965 while at Stanford.

As Soltz notes, the younger Romney was under no obligation to seek a college-related deferment.

"Vietnam was a war that the poor and the people who couldn't afford to go to college had to go to," Soltz said.

After his first year at Stanford, Romney qualified for 4-D deferment status as "a minister of religion or divinity student." It was a status he would hold from July 1966 until February 1969, a period he largely spent in France working as a Mormon missionary.

He was granted the deferment even as some young Mormon men elsewhere were denied that same status, which became increasingly controversial in the late 1960s. The Mormon church, a strong supporter of American involvement in Vietnam, ultimately limited the number of church missionaries allowed to defer their military service using the religious exemption.

But as fighting in Vietnam raged, Romney spent two and a half years trying to win Mormon converts in France. About that same time, Romney's father would famously speak out against Vietnam, declaring that he had been "brainwashed" by military officials into supporting the conflict.

Young Romney's comments indicated his support had waned, too.

"If it wasn't a political blunder to move into Vietnam, I don't know what is," a 23-year-old Romney would tell The Boston Globe in 1970 during the fifth year of his deferment.

His 31-month religious deferment expired in early 1969. And Romney received an academic studies deferment for much of the next two years. He became available for military service at the end of 1970 when his deferments ran out and he could have been drafted. But by that time, America was beginning to slice its troop levels, and Romney's relatively high lottery number – 300 out of 365 – was not called.

Romney - the scary one.

Bush was horrible, but Obama is Bush on Steroids

"But it also wasn’t the kind of VP selection we saw from George W. Bush in 2000 or Barack Obama in 2008 that essentially said: “I’ve got this thing.” Instead, by picking Ryan, Romney said: “I need some help.” "

I think it's Obama that "needs some help" because he's behind by about 3% among Likely Voters at this time - according to both Gallup and Rasmussen.

PS - I don't remember Bush saying "I've got this thing" in 2000 - who are you kidding - that was one of the closest races in history (remember the Florida recount?). I find it interesting that so many pollsters are issuing polls that over-sample Democrats by anywhere from 7% to 10% when both Gallup and Rasmussen conduct surveys that show slightly more Republicans than Democrats in the voting public. This gives the false impression that Obama is ahead when the reality is that he is behind among people who actually vote.

I want to hear his ideas more specifically, but some of his rhetoric doesn't live up to the standard he claims to have... TARP Specifically

"I believe we were on the cusp of a deflationary spiral which would have created a Depression. I think that’s probably pretty likely. If we would have allowed that to happen, I think we would have had a big government agenda sweeping through this country so fast that we wouldn’t have recovered from it. So in order to prevent a Depression and a complete evisceration of the free market system we have, I think it was necessary. It wasn’t a fun vote. You don’t get to choose the kind of votes you want. But I just think as far as the long term objectives that I have — which are restoring the principles of this country — I think it was necessary to prevent those principles from being really kind of wiped out for a generation."

ROY WILSON-336103

I think it's Obama that "needs some help" because he's behind by about 3% among Likely Voters at this time - according to both Gallup and Rasmussen.

And yet last week.... even FUAX news said Obama was up in the polls. Romney's Reject Pick for a VP candidate is going to cost him a lot more votes and in the battle ground states. Seniors VOTE and they know all about Ryan's plan to destroy medicare and SS.

Romney should be the one shaking right now. His Rob from the POOR to give to the Rich strategy is about to catch up w/him.

Nice. Paul "You seniors go die now" Ryan added to Mitt "You poor go die now" Romney.

The GOP is insane. Do they really think we will go along with less taxes on the rich? More trickle down economics that has NEVER, EVER, EVER worked?

Just HOW STUPID do they think we are?

Let's see .. all those foreign companies based in places like Canada, Great Britain, Germany, Sweden, Norway, New Zealand, Argentina, France, Australia, Japan, Thailand all with Universal Health Care, and Social Security type retirement systems. Thank the lord you took your pennies and invested them into countries that do not represent the cesspool of society with all those social programs.

_____________________________________________

Sorry, Red Devil, maybe I should have been more explicit in anticipation of the low information leffty liberals gett it wrong, as usual. I have never own companies/mutual funds concentrated in Old Europe countries, and I never will (see today's economic basket cases Greece, Spain and italy). So cross off your list Great Britain, Germany, Sweden, Norway, France. I do own a Latin America fund, but it has very little of it's holdings in that economic basket case Argentina (less than 2% of fund holdings)

Romney/Ryan 2012 IT'S A LOCK!!!!!!

Joe in Albany-1902257

Sadly, my second reaction is to paraphrase Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men:

“The TRUTH?? The American people can’t handle the truth!!”

.........Joe, terrific point, you are among those who have always contributed with a high degree of intelligence, objectivity and truthfulness.

Yes Nicholson, angered at having his superior rank challenged by an upstart attorney, delivering his belittling criticism with the typical self-possessed arrogance of those who consider themselves above and better than others.

Now everyone, if you didn't see the movie, or have but forgotten, Nicholson turned out to be a lying sack of s..h..1t who trampled on the truth, and was led out of the courtroom under arrest. Great choice for a role model, Joe. Keep up the good work, you are one of the numerous poster children here for the new, improved GOP/TP that has turned a once respectable Republican Party into a bunch of despicable hypocrites.

PS, I'm not a liberal or a DEM, I'm worse, an Independent moderate, stick that in your ear.

This sh!tty website, which looks and acts like it was programmed by four-year olds, posted before I was finished. Here’s the rest of the post:

Let's see .. all those foreign companies based in places like Canada, Great Britain, Germany, Sweden, Norway, New Zealand, Argentina, France, Australia, Japan, Thailand all with Universal Health Care, and Social Security type retirement systems. Thank the lord you took your pennies and invested them into countries that do not represent the cesspool of society with all those social programs.

_____________________________________________

Sorry, Red Devil, maybe I should have been more explicit in anticipation of the low information lefty liberals getting it wrong, as usual. I have never owned companies/mutual funds concentrated in Old Europe countries, and I never will (see today's economic basket cases Greece, Spain and Italy). So cross off your list: Great Britain, Germany, Sweden, Norway, France. I do own a Latin America fund, but it has very little of its holdings in that economic basket case Argentina (less than 2% of fund holdings). Japan’s economy and stock market have been a joke for 10-15 years now. I do own a Canada fund and would buy an Australia fund/ETF if I could because they are both commodity plays in that they are taking advantage of their natural resources to grow their economies (See Keystone pipeline and canada selling their oil to China if Barry doesn’t want to buy it). NZ and Thailand might be nice vacation spots, but, I wouldn’t invest my money there. Emerging markets also fill a big role in my foreign holdings including holdings in China, Korea, South Africa, India, Taiwan and Russia.

Nice try Red Devil. better Luck next time.

LMAO!!!!

Alot of BIAS rhetorioc on this panel especially on the issue OF medicaid. Apparently the elderly is running scared on Obama's scare tactic rhetoric. Obama is good on playing with people's fears and emotions. Well if you naive voters on the LEFT/DEMOCRATS don't want to help the entitlements and perserve,FIX them then I hope to God the programs dry all up on obama's watch, then what ya do? If Obama' wins I hope more layoffs and unemployment goes up even more. OBAMA HAS NOT HAD A REAL JOB, OR CREATED ONE, SO WHAT MAKES HIM AN EXPERT? I cannot wait for the Obamacare tax starts kicking in so the IRS starts going after idots who support it.

Bob the plumber....please start wearing longer shirts!!! You are showing your Ryan Plan!

Piegan....typical Republican wanting America to fail. Just like ryan when he pledged to take the economy down to make president Obama a one term president. Just like he pledged when he took the Norquist pledge putting Norquist above the constitution. Pladgeing against the Unitesd States of America. Now you want the country to fail.....The mark and pledge of a traitor.

Obam/Biden 2012

Have a look at a small portion of the "weasels" Congressional voting record.

Continually votes against Womens right of choice, even in cases of "Rape and Incest". Voted to cut off Federal funding for "family planning, and title X Family planning programs. Wants Doctors who perform abortions prosecuted for murder. Co-sponsored a bill that would define Fetuses as people. Opposes stem cell research. Opposes contraception for women. Says such is an affront to religious liberty. Voted against the expansion of Federal Hate crime laws. Supports Gun owners rights, and voted for legislation that would bar people from suing gun manufacturers for damages caused by their products. Voted against more stringent background checks for those buying guns at gun shows. Voted for a Federal law to allow people to carry concealed weapons who were approved in any state in all states. Believes marriage is only between a man and a Woman. Believes homosexuality is a choice rather than a nature induced behavior. Gwaddamn! I pity His wife. Wisconsinites: I didn't know you folks in His district could be that off the wall. The above illustrates just some of the piss in the bucket He peddals as drinking water this little Weasel totes.

Mac Forrester...I dont mind telling you, along with all of you libs that YOU are a lier! Plain and simple, a LIER and YOU know it! You libs are just running scared. You should be!

Vote for President Obama! The survival of the middle class and medicare depend on it! The President is the only one who will protect the social safety net! I for one believe in looking out for our fellow citizens.

Survival of Medicare? Doesn't Obama CUT $700 billion from medicare? What a joke, only a liberal can gut a program and be hailed for "protecting" it.

President Obama's administration has produced a new form of class warfare: a nonstop barrage of economic policies that enriched unions, empowered bureaucrats, the losing of billions in the business schemes of Obama’s financial backers, and he has made America’s middle class smaller, poorer and less stable than it was before Obama took office. For every time that Obama says “middle class” we should recall the extreme distance between his beautiful rhetoric and the grubby reality of his record. Ask Obama how many "middle class" people went into foreclosure today?

Four years and the middle class has had enough of Obama, we can't afford his help anymore.

When are liberals going to talk about the issues facing the nation? When are liberals going to address how to solve the problems? Instead all the Administration does is sling mud and tell Americans how to think about other people. The same observation is valid on the post above.

Talk about the plans for the future in terms of a platform for action.

The whole Democratic campaign to date reminds me of a junior high school popularity contest; seek to undermine others in order to feel good about the group I am aligned to, versus truly looking at the facts of the current situation and who might have the best idea to get us out of the hole we continue to sink in...

CNN) -- It's still too early to judge his administration, President Barack Obama says.

In an interview broadcast on the CBS "Sunday Morning" program, Obama gave himself a grade of "incomplete" on the first 18 months of his presidency.

< after 36 months his grade does not change>

While citing some accomplishments, Obama said the true measure of success will be when the economy has rebounded fully and people are feeling better about it.

"We still have a long way to go," Obama said.

Asked if he felt his administration wasn't getting the credit it deserved, he laughed and answered, "Yes," then offered an explanation.

Coming out of the worst recession since the Great Depression, Americans still want to see a full recovery before they'll believe the worst is over, Obama said.

"People have every right to be scared, to be angry, to be frustrated," he said. "I don't expect the American people to be satisfied when we're only half of the way back."

The president also said he understands that criticism comes with the job.

"One of the things when you're president is folks are going to direct attention when things aren't going right at you," he said.

After more than 36 month and with the economy going in the wrong track.

I have to concive and agree with you Mr. President. OBAMA IS A FAILURE

Nice to see so many brainwashed people here on both sides. Let's agree that Romney/Ryan a history of decisions many people dislike, but we need to also agree that Obama/Biden have a history of decisions many people dislike.

No one knows how Romney/Ryan will run the office if elected, but we know how the Obama/Biden will go, nothing will get done. I say that because congress refuses to budge, as well as budget..., but we need some "hope and change" not this "hope for change" administration (Legislative and Executive Branches).

@truetexan#1.114: And since you made the accusation "waddie" I don't mind telling you; you are a goddamned liar.

Are we there yet? Is is over yet? How much longer is this stupid popularity contest going to go on? Why do we need such long elections? Times have changed over the last 200 years and it no longer takes weeks or days to travel across the country.

Same for mail and information. Why do we still need lobbyists, so our elected officials make even more money? Must be nice to be able to earn that extra side money which never has an effect on how a person votes, ever. As long as our politicians can be bought by the highest bidder it does not matter if a D or an R wins. Skin tone does not matter either, money talks.

Considering how little our president has to do with our current economic polices I do not understand wtf all the fuss is about. What branch of our government can actually propose and vote on economic polices again?

1% to 2% of the population do not want to pay for 8% to 9% population and vice versa. All this B.S. is over 6% of the population and how much they work, how they "save or spend", etc. Bunch of little fing kids arguing over nothing while people suffer and perish...hooray.

P.S. I would love to see some tax returns while we are on the subject.

Mac Forrester,

I did not bother reading your entire post as the first claim was incorrect and invalidated the remainder of your post. Please check your facts, not believing everything the negative advertisements say.

.

The link describes the ad that has you brainwashed and has evidence (get a dictionary for that word) on his stance.

Thank you for your contributions, but please do not spread lies.

my grandmother was confounded by the argument that the Ryan plan would not affect current seniors. as she put it "why would any senior vote for something that would hurt their own children?"

For all of the conservatives who keep trying to raise the argument that Obama isn't running on his record, he's just slamming Romney: isn't that a bit of the pot calling the kettle black? Romney has spent his entire campaign being negative and bashing on Obama. Romney can't defend his own record: "I'm a good businessman.....except I was no longer at Bain and had retroactively retired; I'm good with finances......except I'm not responsible for my Swiss and Cayman accounts, I had a blind trust." So he wants to take credit for things he also wants to say he had nothing to do with. What kind of record is that exactly?

The link did not work, but go to factchecker dot org and search for falsifying romney's abortion stance.

Remember – this is the same Paul Ryan who started charging people to attend his town hall meetings after he introduced his so called fix for Medicare. It seems Ryan had way too many difficult questions form the people in his district so he needed to cut down on the number of people attending. This guy must be a lot like Romney – he has to be scripted and can’t think on his feet. And Remember – from 2001 to 2007 – with Bush in the White House and Republicans controlling Congress – Paul Ryan never saw a spending bill he couldn’t vote for.

Personally, this choice indicates a couple of things;

1. The Republican (led by Mitt) is willing to sacrifice their position by catering to the far right. In another words, it is not about what is right, but what is perceived to be electable. It is a move to further isolate the party. There are too many critical issues that Mitt and Paul disagree on. These idiology are critical for the independent voters. This is a move indicating that Mitt is willing to placate to the far right...

2. For Paul to accept the VP, it showed that the Republicans are taking his controlling share of the party seriously. However believing that their ticket is the winning ticket, Paul completely sacrificed his Tea Party leadership. He basically is throwing in the towel and turned his votes to John Bohner. This indicates to me that Paul believes the Tea Party movement has peaked (if not dying), and he is shifting his idiology and sellout his followers.

Charlie 191

Obama charge $ 51 to get in to his Town Hall meeting-fundraiser in Chicago , yesterday August 12, but the room was half full even so Democrats comment that there where more people that what they expect . LOL

Read about what FRAUD IS Paul Ryan's plan:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/pascalemmanuelgobry/2012/08/13/the-5-biggest-myths-about-paul-ryans-controversial-plans-medicare-taxes-budget-social-security/

That's it Libtards, stay overconfident. That's right where we want you.

@13en#1.122-1.124 : You really need to read posts before you comment on 'em. My post was about "Ryan the weasels" Congressional voting record. Some of it anyway. Gwaddamn "13en", Romney never served in Congress. What the hell is wrong with you? No link has me brainwashed. I know the sum-bitch voted as I stated. Additionally, I never rely on links, except for dates or proper spelling.

The name calling cracks me up.

No Richard you do speak for most people! Fair minded people want compromise, you basically outlined the Conservative Movements agenda. I think Obama has let Independents down, he hasn't reached across the Isle and now we are more divided then ever. Romney could probably do that if he chose, he has enough of a central record to justify my vote but choosing Paul Ryan was basically him caving to the Norquist crowd, no different then McCain choosing Palin. That basically tells you he didn't stand up to Far Right, he caved and that says a lot about the Man.

BTW You guys should read "Anthem" and "The FountainHead" by Ayn Rand, she was a staunch Libertarian and believed in personal responsibility and personal rights. She is in no way a modern Republican type.

The more I watch Mutt Head the more I realize what a weak, weak man he is. Weak character, weak work ethic, weak as a decision maker, weak and spineless.

Who could really expect this man to lead this country and represent us to foreign leaders. The idea makes my stomach turn. He is sadly pathetic and very embarrassing.

What isn't a lie is that Medicare is going to be insolvent by 2016, if not sooner,

Bentbrass, let's explain this to you very slowly so it doesn't hurt you....

There are a boatload of answers to the Medicare/SS issue. We can raise the eligibility age, play with the "ceiling" on wages subject to the payroll tax, raise the payroll tax rate, cut the inflation factor slightly, means-test, play with the taxability of benefits, increase the premiums slightly, and more.

NONE of those have anything to do with vouchers or obtaining the insurance that would prevent some from ever getting health insurance (at 65, btw). Managing the budget and overspending is hard, and requires a lot of compromise (something we don't have with Republicans right now). I could balance the deficit in 10 minutes if I could give out vouchers and block grants for a fixed amount, where any overspending, by either lower- than- expected revenues, or over-than-expected expenses would be shifted away from the Federal Government and onto States and individuals. That's the Republican answer.

We've spent years trying to compromise with Republicans on a grand bargain, entitlement reform, the budget, the debt ceiling, etc., etc., etc.,

We are at the end of our patience. We will now destroy you if you are not willing to compromise, because we are smarter, better, and on the right side.

And answer the question, Einstein. if the Ryan Medicare Plan is so good, then why don't those 55 and over have to rely on it???

Now your talkin about ALL lefties nwnative. ALLLLL!!!

kevinoffiste: Ayn Rand is a good writer and an excellent communicator. Is she a true Libertarian or simply a far right conservative? Unfortunately, her idiology and calculations were flawed. She was making arguments without responsiblities to existing societies;

1. She believe the market is free... The fact is that the market is NOT FREE. Even if we make our American market to be free, we can not force our product to be shipped to other countries without import duties and other regulations. In additions, greed turns out to be a 2 edge sword. It help increase motivation, but it also promote illegal behaviors. Sure some idiots will say that people will stop buying... hmmm, no, in many cases peopel would have died or been improvished such that they can not do anything about other people greed without regulations.

2. Tax is bad... Unfortunately, tax is a necessity. There are basic commons that we share publically, such as highway, defense, police, fire, education... It is not in the Libertarian play book. All those are to be gained by highest bidder. Unfortunately, those are short sighted. If there isn't education, then how will the owner utilize the next group of workers? If there isn't govt to provide protection inventions and brands, then how will one seek justice for stolen properties (physical and intellectual)? If there aren't taxes, then how are you going to stop invading countries who seek wealth and resources? In another words, Ayn's book would have been in Japanese or in German.

3. We are not lab rats. We are interconnected with other humans. This is a society, such that most things are connected. We can not do things without effecting others. Ayn Rand failed to connect the big picture. She took a microcosum and expanded into a global situation without taking any cultural, racial and religious factors into play. Asia does not operate as USA. In fact, countries within Asia don't even operate the same....

So why was her writing so generalized??? Like your idol, you make the same generalization. You don't speak for the majority of the independents as to why they believe President Obama failed them. Like her, you generalize. To simply for her aguments sake or does she think you're so ignorant that you can not comprehend? She made some excellent points, but she arrived at her conclusions through some serious miscalculations and poor generalizations. Those are flaws that I am not willing to bet on, because my fellow human beings (disregarding their race, religion, and polticis) are too precious.

As for your criticism of President Obama's lack of reaching across the isle, please show me WHERE AND WHEN did Paul Ryan did such on his core issues???? Kind of hyporcritical, don't you think???

thturd - I'm not defending Ryan or Mitt, and no they haven't attempted to compromise.

It seems the selection of Paul Ryan as Mitt Romney’s running mate has already had an impact on the Obama administration. Anonymous sources with close ties to Senator Harry Reid have confirmed that Vice President Biden soiled his boxers when informed he would have to engage Ryan in the Vice Presidential debate. Apparently Biden’s aides were overcome when they detected the odor of real sh!t instead of his usual bullsh!t.

The sources further confirmed that when President Obama was informed of the mishap he immediately ordered the release of emergency stimulus funds to finance the expansion of laundromats and cleaners all across America in anticipation of the uncontrollable bowel movements liberals will succumb to as they witness the demise of their socialist dreams during the next three months.

Romney can see Russia from his offshore account!

Ryan can see Milwaukee from his kitchen.

Obama can't see his own a$$ with a flashlight hung over it.

mygirl1 -- And you know because you've tried it yourself, right?

Mac Forrester

As progressive democrats the most important question we should be asking ourselves is; does the selection of this "Weasel" energize us enough to go out and vote in large enough mass to defeat this "tax evading Simpleton", and His illustrious "jack booted Weasel"? For the benefit of American life, the Republic, and Ourselves, we must.

When I saw my state added to states now back in play, I was fired up for sure. And look at Iowa in which Ryan dissed the drought while President Obama is fighting to help rural Americans there. What group isn't disenfranchised by these two plutocrats -- Romney also a LIAR and cheat that no one trusts.

If progressives get out and vote (heck and anyone who rejects the Xtreme Ryan nightmare) we can prevent our country from becoming an Oligarchy overnight. My state purged me from the rolls, but I will make sure to show up with all the ID under the sun to cast my vote for President Obama and every Dem down the line as well as propositions.

Your vote DOES count -- Especially now, so get out and VOTE!

thturd -- No need to debate Ayn Rand -- Ryan is so extreme he is being compared to the Goldwater landslide defeat. But what folks are forgetting is that even Goldwater:

1) was not as extreme about religious-Right issues, such as the "personhood' BS and criminalizing abortion in all cases, as well as banning contraception.

2) was skeptical of military weapons spending, not doubling down on the Military Industrial Complex and war profiteering.

What is really amazing is how Paul Ryan has fought to privatize Social Security as well, even after 2008 and the meltdown of Wall Street -- Most folks were relieved that Dubya was not successful in privatizing SS.

It is SO obvious (except to the FAUX Noise/Hate Radio rightwing ) that Romney and Ryan are 1%ers who have hated the New Deal ever since it's inception, and have tried to create crisis as an excuse to privatize everything for their own enrichment (because they aren't rich enough yet).

These plutocrats are NOT interested in reducing deficits, or strengthening the US economy, or helping the middle class, or improving upward mobility, or anything that preserves democracy for that matter. Look at their plans -- rightwingers tell us how they would do any of these things?

There is no comparison in history, not even Goldwater--or Ross Perot. The Romney/Ryan ticket is the most extreme I've seen since then to be sure. It's off the chart insanity!

kevinoffsite -- I have read Ayn Rand -- It is fiction, and the Sci-Fi end of Atlas Shrugged seems to have been written under the influence. I have a much better public policy reading list for you if you're interested.

As for her manifesto, she is an atheist, a hypocrite, and a Hater, so why would I want anything to do with that crap?

Your hero is busily bankrupting Social Security. Fought real hard for those payroll tax cuts, and guess what payroll tax cuts are? So, while you whine and whinge about Social Security privatization, you sure are real quiet about Obama seriously shortchanging it? Like 50% worth of shortchanging. Are you even aware of what Obama is doing and has done or do you only get your information from his campaign ads?

@mygirl1#1.141: Most are not as lucky as you. You can stand before a mirror and examine your ass anytime you like, and you don't have to be standing on your head to do it.

Another thing. You are fortunate to have no need to read a book or consider anyone's opinion, no matter how informed. Your goofy imaginings seem to always enhance your mental warp.

You really don't deserve the time of day by throwing our words like Nazi and denigrating a race of people who had millions brutally murdered but debunking your rant is easy:

http://www.chicagonow.com/publius-forum/2012/08/lefty-attack-paul-ryan-is-a-follower-of-ayn-rand/

This, the left said, proves he is a flip flopper or a liar. But, again, none of it is true.

First of all Ryan does not disavow being a fan of Ayn Rand's work. He fully admits that as a young man he was influenced by her economic theories and her energetic apologia for capitalism. But he has never, ever said he was enamored of her objectivist ideals. There are no quotes from him accepting Rand's strict philosophy.

Another area where Ryan parts company with Ayn Rand reveals a key difference between them. Rand was a vehement opponent of religion -- all religion -- as well as its moral strictures. But Paul Ryan is a committed Catholic. As he stated in the quote above Ryan has never signed onto her anti-religious ideals. Ryan's compassionate Catholicism is what makes it impossible for him to be a full-throated Randian.

Still, the left claims that Paul Ryan's budget policies are intended to throw grandma out on the street and that he intends an Ayn Rand-like destruction the welfare state. But the truth is, his Roadmap For America's Future goes out of its way to save the welfare state by paring it down to an economically sustainable form. Ryan is not proposing any end to the welfare state.

Ayn Rand was not nearly so kind. She called the welfare state an imposition of complete immorality on a polity and opposed its construction. What ever you think of her philosophy there is no evidence that Paul Rayn ever signed on to all of her ideas.

So, it just isn't true that Paul Ryan is some wild-eyed "objectivist" ready to tear down grandma's safety net. Paul Ryan is clearly a fan of Ayn Rand in many ways. But he is not a Randian objectivist. And he never was.

BlackCatwhiteCat,

It is aa sad day in America when a politician bases his whole philosphy on a novel

written by a second rate writer.

Ben-636050

You really don't deserve the time of day by throwing our words like Nazi and denigrating a race of people who had millions brutally murdered but debunking your rant is easy:

I believe Glen Beck is the world record holder for using the term Nazi in any public forum. It is the Right that tosses this word to its minions. Tell me Ben, is your charge not rightly to be laid at Beck's front door?

When a pres candidate makes a "Bold" VP pick, it just means that they are trying to change the narrative as they are on the losing spectrum of the election. That's what Romney did with this pick.

Too bad that within 3wks, it will be back to Romney vs Obama and where at thou taxes - you cheat!!

I am not a Beck fan. Next.

And that is your reasoning -- really??? Pathetic.

Ryan is nothing but an arrogant snot who has been living off the government his whole life. He wants to cut Medicare and SSN for the elderly and throw them to the wolves. He thinks he's something special. I want to see him give up his Cadillac healthcare and all the perks us taxpayers pay for and have to deal with the same crap the rest of have to deal with. You would hear some real whining then. All of these people should have to put with what we have to deal with. This would shut them up real quick. Why should they get anything more than the rest of us hard working people. That needs to change.

Go big on Ryan's Medicare plan, Romney can't win without Florida.

Don't let Ryan turn Medicare into a voucher program, saddling seniors with higher health care costs to pay for a huge tax cut for the rich !!!

Now, now Contempt. You weren't supposed to know that since the biased 60 Minutes put that fact on the cutting room floor. My guess it won't be Biden. He'll be replaced just like the rest of the WH staff.

Oh yes, and don't think this takes the head lights off the fact that this countlry still wants and demands to see your tax returns that you are so afraid to come up with Mutt Head.

It is being waged by their propaganda media ravings of Beck and his Nazis,

Hey cat, as soon as you go down this path, you lose.

Damage,

there is absolutely no proof that Obama and Ayers were friends, which of course makes my analogy quite sound according to your argument.

White Collar Auto

It is being waged by their propaganda media ravings of Beck and his Nazis,

Hey cat, as soon as you go down this path, you lose.

Is no one on the Right wearing their readers today. It is Beck and his ilk that constantly use the word and my comment is about their continuous use of it.

Shrug off!

Not to mention that Ryan uses Social Security survivor's benefits to put himself through college. Don't think he can "shrug" that one off either.

Blackwhitecat.......excellent post! You must be feeling better, stay well with kindest regards.

Gingerbread Mamma

Blackwhitecat.......excellent post! You must be feeling better, stay well with kindest regards.

Doctor's orders. Take two aspirins and whack a Rightie. Thanx.

Two people just meant for each other. Rich and richer! All bought and paid for by the business and corporate world!

Paul Ryan, Lipstick on a pig.

@bcwb...Y*A*W*N*...!

The only fear i have about Ryan is that he isn't as stupid as Mitt but he's running for VP thats kind of like the dog catcher, they don't do anything but you still need one

F6 Please! your making us laugh so hard it's hard to read.

Are you from Florida?

Romney probably doesn't even like Ryan. It's obvious that he is just using Ryan as bait to attract far right conservative voters who would not otherwise vote for Romney because they don't think he is conservative enough. Before being taken in by that ploy, however, those far right voters should bear in mind that if they vote for Romney, unless he is assassinated, he will be the man in charge; not Ryan. They will be stuck with a wishy-washy, pseudo-liberal as president.

Here in sunny Florida, several seniors that I know, that don't like Obama, are pretty upset with Romney's VP pick.

I would post some of their responses, but many aren't fit for print.

Let's just say there was a collective "Oh Crap" spoken here on Saturday morning.

blackcat, excellent post, cheers! The shrugged by Atlas line, perfect!

Paul Ryan and Ayn Rand - working to ensure oligarchs take over the world... US is already taken over by them.

blackcat....nice comparison to a fiction writer...fiction...is Ayers a fictional character?

I find it humorous that so many charge Ryan with killing seniors, yet know nothing about what is actually IN his plan.You can't just repeat what you hear on MSNBC folks. Same with Romney's taxes.

justredd64

blackcat....nice comparison to a fiction writer...fiction...is Ayers a fictional character?

Is the novelist, polemicist and philosopher Ayn Rand a fictional character? The Ayers Obama friendship is fictional.

Caesar Augustus-

Bill Ayers moved on a long time ago and is no longer the radical of his youth. Time for you to also move on. Learn to forgive.

Well, all you Republicans, you wanted someone who would eliminate the Federal government, now you got them. If this POS team gets elected, don't expect to have a US government (or even local government) anymore.

Your fresh clean air, potable water, roads able to be driven on, school for your children and grandchildren, Social Security & Medicare will all be GONE!!! The only thing you'll get if you call 911 will be storm troopers dragging you out of the rental home the bank lets you stay in, demanding you answer their questions about what kind of communist, socialist, foreigner you are by asking for government help.

You don't believe that, read the Republican budget. The only areas where spending increases is Homeland Security and DOD. The only thing missing is a "final solution" for what to do with liberals.

Whoever wrote the article that catman cut and pasted either didn't read Atlas Shrugged, or didn't understand it.

no blackcat, Ayn Rand is real but who is John Galt?

Blackcatwhitecat- Clearly you've not been feeling well (as noted by others), I would suggest taking a nice walk outside for a change and breathing some fresh air.

As usual I'll try to interject some logic into this conversation (over rhetoric). Here goes-

How do you propose to fix the clear problem of overspending/ mismanagement in DC? Rhetoric says we'll tax some people, create more programs for the rest and it'll all work out. Reality says "OMG 70 trillion in promises, how do we fix that?!", which turns into taxes go up, things get cut and everybody gets some pain. So you are going to get less for more, but it can prevent abject failure of our systems. Take for example Social Security- the current status of the "account" is about $4 trillion in the black but are deminishing quickly (dead date is now 2033 and coming closer). There isn't an "account" to draw from. In reality the taxes taken in are passed over to those taking out, which is now a deficit. There is a short amount of time to change Social Security so that it can continue to exist, however it can't continue as it is. SO, reality notes that it must be changes, which rhetoric can't stand and must use as a divisive measure to retain power over principle.

As to some of your other comments- Please get real. You are slinging fascism at the opponant while the current administration has systematically injected itself into businesses and industry, actively selected whom "wins" and rewarding allies while punishing the opposition, regulated itself over other industries, promoted communal supervision/control over individual choices, created new methods to spy on the common man in the US (drones, internet, phones, texts) and created measures to cut us off when they wish (new emergency procedures, martial law procedures). If you ask me, it looks more like we are getting controlled now.

The destruction of unions, not going to happen. There's no reason to completely destroy organized labor, but there is a time when aspects of organized labor are destructive themselves (usually when combined with politicians and their promises) and their control must be curbed- kind of like when monopolies were broken up in industry).

Destruction of minimum wage, not going to happen. A national minimum wage will exist, however states which create greater minimum wages out of political pandering may have theirs broken. An example- SF. They thought it would be great to raise theirs as a "living" wage, but it turned out that the cost of everything went up proportionally with the rise in minimum wage (because those same intro workers cost businesses, which had to either eat the costs in their profits or turn them over to the consumers). So in the end the cost of everything is up, nobody is living better, and people and businesses are moving out of metro SF to communities with better options.

If you want to take offense at anything I'd suggest taking offense at the average American. People are so happy to give away their choices and rights to get "something" from the government in return. I literally heard a guy say that people would rather get a small thing from government then a big reward for hard effort and risk. That's scarry. The problem lies in when people (over time) keep asking for more and relying more on government to take care of them. An example, upwards of 50% of people getting something from government and the government actively promoting people to get on food stamps. They'll love the freebie now, but when the government changes the programs they rely upon they'll get offended (but it'll be too late). It's not their choice and there aren't measures to undo an entrenched system. You'll get what you get or you'll get nothing. That's the big risk here.

I love that the righties are upset with blackcat's Ayn Rand analysis and tie to Ryan after all the garbage they have posted about Obama. Two-faced is too good a phrase to describe the likes of Ben, Contemptible and Damage.

Romney's pick has insured him the votes of the radical right and also insure he's lost moderates and Independents. But, it proves he has no business trying to lead the country when he doesn't even understand issues.

Obama/Biden 2012

Caesar Augustus-

no blackcat, Ayn Rand is real but who is John Galt?

William Edward Hickman

sure black cat, if only the child can be represented as marxism.

lets go back to discussing how Obama never knew Bill Ayers.

Caesar Augustus-

lets go back to discussing how Obama never knew Bill Ayers.

I know a lot of people, a lot of them are not my friends.

Here are some others that you can paint with guilt by association

Stanley Ikenberry, a former president of the University of Illinois system; Ray Romero, a vice president of Ameritech; Susan Crown, a philanthropist; Handy Lindsey, the president of the Field Foundation of Illinois; and Wanda White, the executive director of the Community Workshop for Economic Development. (factcheck.org)

I think the association is much greater than just passing by there black cat and you know it. you are trying to steer away from the fact for 3 years they worked together but not at a job. Its not as simple as co-workers.

No one is saying he didn't know Bill Ayers, they served on some committee together years ago. So, in your twisted logic they're close friends? But, I guess that's all you've got because you repeat it and repeat it!

Caesar Augustus-

I think the association is much greater than just passing by there black cat and you know it

I know you think it.

ps tired of uncollapsing the thread. let's move on

well one meets at anothers home i dont think its just mere co-worker status. thanks blackcat

After Romney introduce Paul Ryan has the next " President of the United States" the liberal media got crazy and start shaking their legs , attaching Romney for such a gaffe, without realize that the Commander in Chief Barack " Barry Soeroto" Hussein Obama II made the same mistake. Knowing that the press stay silent and change their tone , BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES. From Politico

Good sense oh humor

“At Obama fundraiser in Chicago. Admission only $51, but room is half full,” New York Times reporter Jodi Kantor wrote on Twitter.

The Romney campaign seized on Jody Kantor’s estimate, as spokesman Ryan Williams tweeted, “Thrill is gone.” The Drudge Report also piled on, linking to Kantor’s tweet, which has been re posted by a few hundred others. (Kantor quickly followed up with additional tweets noting that only some tickets to the event cost $51 and that the campaign said the event was sold out ?????????? . LOL . Change you can beleive.

I want to say to the guy from Houston and everyone like him that is now saying that The President took all that money from Medicare to pay for the Health care law. The Money that was taken from Medicare was the over payment Little Bush gave them to start with. That money was just a windfall for big Med. FARMA. It was fraud from day one. Bush taking care of his rich friends. Now they are crying because it was taken back. Its kinda like the no bid contracts given to Hallaburtan and black water. I always the Presidents and VP couldn't make money from company's while in office. Bush and Cheney are both major share holders in Hallaburtan. That is wrong as hell. But as long as a Rep is doing it, its ok with people like. God for bid we take that money and help someone that really needs it. Just keep giving more to the ones that don't need it. And I bet you call yourself a Christian.

Republicans..ANTI AMERICAN AND JOB KILLERS!

7-19-12 Repubs block the bill that would end giving tax breaks to companies who take AMERICAN JOBS OVERSEAS. Repubs block that same bill that would give tax breaks to companies that would bring jobs back.

Why do republicons hate Americans? Because they love $$$$$$ even more. Repubs love money over our constitution. Repubs pledged the oath to their office when elected then threw that pledge aside and took the King Norquist pledge to the rich. Like traitors when they took the Norquist pledge to the greedy rich. Why do republicons hate America.....Because they love $$$$$$$$ more than America.

Vote Obama/Biden and Team America 2012. Protect American jobs!!!!!

BOZO STOLE 700billion from medicare. He wants to throw the old under the bus. A vote for bozo is like voting for hugo chavez if he was running. OUR roads and bridges are being built by the chinese. If the only way to make money and stay in business was to go overseas, I would go there to. IF you want them to stay HERE, lower the corp. tax rate. WE are the HIGHEST taxed nation (corporations) in the WORLD!!

The enemy of the state holds the highest office in the land!! TRAITOR!!!

What isn't a lie is that Medicare is going to be insolvent by 2016, if not sooner,

Bentbrass, let's explain this to you very slowly so it doesn't hurt you....

There are a boatload of answers to the Medicare/SS issue. We can raise the eligibility age, play with the "ceiling" on wages subject to the payroll tax, raise the payroll tax rate, cut the inflation factor slightly, means-test, play with the taxability of benefits, increase the premiums slightly, and more.

NONE of those have anything to do with vouchers or obtaining the insurance that would prevent some from ever getting health insurance (at 65, btw). Managing the budget and overspending is hard, and requires a lot of compromise (something we don't have with Republicans right now). I could balance the deficit in 10 minutes if I could give out vouchers and block grants for a fixed amount, where any overspending, by either lower- than- expected revenues, or over-than-expected expenses would be shifted away from the Federal Government and onto States and individuals. That's the Republican answer.

We've spent years trying to compromise with Republicans on a grand bargain, entitlement reform, the budget, the debt ceiling, etc., etc., etc.,

We are at the end of our patience. We will now destroy you if you are not willing to compromise, because we are smarter, better, and on the right side.

And answer the question, Einstein. if the Ryan Medicare Plan is so good, then why don't those 55 and over have to rely on it???

OBOZO loses in landslide defeat 2012. LANDSLIDE!! NO compromise, NONE! Throw out the demwitted democRATS! We want OUR country back. GET OUT IF YOU DONT LIKE IT!! PERIOD!

Chad: " Paul Ryan, Lipstick on a pig". How original!!!!! Did you think this up all by yourself???? And was your lipstick out of the casing while you thought of this? LOL.

StoptheCannibals-2908428 - How will your ideas actually control the costs of these programs on a structural level? Sure, they're options...and it may make sense to try at least some of them. But in and of themselves, they're not going to get the job done; they can only curb the growth of Medicare and Medicaid to a certain extent. Without ideas like the type of vouchers Ryan proposes, Medicare and Medicaid remain essentially blank checks. None of the ideas you listed tie the amount given out in Medicare and Medicaid to either our country's GDP or to the revenues the IRS brings in either year. Any solution that fails to do that will ultimately fail.

States should be the ones to make decisions about how far they'll extend these programs and how much they'll pay. Mandating what they pay out and the services they provide, especially when the programs paint with such a broad brush and "entitle" people to such sweeping benefits, was always an unsustainable idea that would lead to the collapse of both federal and state governments. States are better equipped both to determine what they can reasonably pay and what their people need.

Let's be clear about this: Medicare and Medicaid benefits are going to have to be ultimately reduced. There's no way around that. Either we change the way the game is played and make some tough choices or the whole system will collapse and nobody will be protected. Far too many of our people are dependent on the government, and it's about time people realize they can't rely on the government to take care of them so that they can start working on their own solutions.

It would be better for the system and the country as a whole if the Ryan plan was extended to everyone. But he's willing to exempt older people because they don't have time to prepare for the changes that have to happen and because they're particularly susceptible to scare tactics.

Good morning Floyd, Great Read with the facts on Ryan and his so called plan for America, or for the, "Screwing of America."

If Ryan had even once voted against the Bush measures that put us in the economic ditch we've been climbing out of, he would have more credibility. Instead, his conversion to fiscal "restraint" seems to be remarkably partisan and part of the group that had no problem screwing the American people in order to limit President Obama to one term. No thanks.

Good morning IR, great post. Mr Ryan is a forked tongued individual whose glib words make his plan seem benign to the willfully ignorant.

Keep in mind, that Paul Ryan was one of the invited attendees at that little gathering of 15 on the night President Obama was inaugurated. At this gathering a set of steps was laid out as to how the GOP would make his dealings with Congress pure hell trying to ensure he'd be a one term President.

That one moment at which Paul Ryan was an interested and willing participant, tells us much about him and what a mendacious individual he is. He simply would not be a good choice for any office, that evening spent plotting the ruination of a duly elected President and his administration was knocking on the door of treason.

For those unaware of this event or looking for further information, read Robert Draper's recent book: Do Not Ask What Good We Do: Inside the U.S. House of Representatives

IR -

Not only wasn't this a "courageous" choice, I've yet to be convinced it was Romney's "choice" at all. Even if he wasn't actually following orders from above, it looks like at the very least, he finally realized that his strategy of playing it safe and trying to run out the clock wasn't going to work. He needed a game changer - except that this is exactly the change he didn't want. We've been told for a long time now that his VP pick was not going to be somebody like Christie or Rubio who could potentially upstage him and steal the spotlight.

Well, guess what, folks? Welcome to the new ticket:

Ryan/Romney 2012.

Morning, darlin'! Great post!

I'm in the throes of "OH NO! My son starts school next Wednesday!" so my brain is too mushy to add anything to your usual brilliance! Have a great week! Mine is going to be fraught with trying to get the 5 yo on a schedule approximating school days.

Wow. You are are actually aware that Obama is going to lose, aren't you? The desperation is palpable.

It's pretty funny- I had long assumed that only the delusional would vote for Obama- turns out I was being generous. According to the First Lady, you have to be a knucklehead

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/08/12/michelle_obama_get_that_knucklehead_friend_to_vote_for_obama.html

Her words, not mine.

I remember those days! Good luck, Cat.

As usual no joe posts no-thing. We all know the Ryan pick was like a knife to the heart (sorry I realize that doesn't exist in the GOP) to the Republican chances.

They've even lost the senior vote now. What will they do without their pale, stale, old white men?????

Obama/Biden 2012

The electoral map disagrees with no jo, and most experts put Obama's chances at re-election around 80% That's why your seeing this kind of desperation from the Romney camp.

Thanks, newday! I may need it since the kid inherited a double-dose of stubbornness. He's very excited to be going to school, I'm kinda excited about getting a good portion of the day without a tornado undoing cleaning as fast as the house gets clean. But I'm also sad that my little boy is growing up and that before I know it he'll be DRIVING and driving me up the wall with being a teenager.

IR, terrific article and your added thoughts say it all. The Ryan pick is anything but courageous as Ryan's own budget is anything but courageous.

One thing about Paul Ryan, he does not sound nutty when he presented and defended his extreme and completely irresponsible budget. Ryan speaks logically and sounds reasonable to those who do not pay close attention to details--he is good at making his own case. That is something that democrats and the Obama Team likely recognize.

Obama/Biden 2012. 4 More for 44!

Welcome to the Republican version of Bizarro world.

It's a strange world that makes absolutely no sense. A world where:

Tax increases on the wealthy=class warfare

Cutting services for the middle class & poor=fiscal responsibility

Raising taxes on the middle class & poor=paying their fair share

Slashing tax rates for the wealthy=more tax revenue

Gutting the federal government=building a better nation

Vaporizing a budget surplus by voting for two unfunded wars, Medicare Part D, and Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy=a fiscal budget hawk

Seriously. This is the bizarro world the Republican/Tea Party inhabits, and now they have their poster boy to try and make the rest of us live in it.

Vote no to Bain/Pain 2012.

And you will be AMAZED, Cat, at how fast they grow up and are out the door! Hope you little guy LOVES school.

Can you Democrat campaign workers do me a couple of favors?

1.) Stop posting articles written by someone else. I get tired of seeing these tired Democrat memo's regurgitated on the news vines. Independent Redneck I'm looking at you.

2.) Stop saying hi to each other and pretend that you don't talk and coordinate with each other. The news vines are supposed to be a place for real people making real comments, not campaign workers posting talking point memo's and saying hi to their campaign friends in the state next door. Cat / Job1.

3.) Try making an argument that isn't some lame talking point, it makes for a better dialog when your not just copying and pasting talking points sent out from campaign headquarters.

Cat

When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years. ~Mark Twain

Hold ‘em close just as long as you can my dear and when it comes time cut them loose on the world and have faith that you’ve done all you can to prepare them for the trials and tribulations of life. It is one of life’s greatest joys and at the same time one of life’s greatest heartbreaks.

Bravo Logic. but dont hold your breath. You'll have a better chance at talking sense into rocks then logic into liberals.

What IS it with the right's hatred for friendship? I honestly don't get it.

"Logic" speaking as a Lib with friends on the 'Vine, I will write my posts the way I want, greet anyone else who posts here as I please, and support those that I want to support.

As to IR? He is one of the most popular writers on the 'Vine. If you don't like his wisdom, it speaks to YOUR deficits, not his.

Now. You have an ignore function that you can use. If you don't like what I write or what anyone else posts, use it.

Gosh, what control freaks you on the fringe right are.

Can you Democrat campaign workers do me a couple of favors?

Can you GOP/TP trolls that frequently post here do us all a couple of favors? Quite posting your one line GOP/TP talking points published by the RNC and your media outlet Fox News, or if you insist on posting them, back them up with citations that support your weak and feeble talking points.

Gosh, what control freaks you on the fringe right are.

Boy did you ever hit the nail on the head NDD!

Logic, I don't talk or coordinate with anybody who posts here on the vine. Your conspiracy theory is laughable. Unless you're saying that you talk and coordinate with other conservative/tea party people outside of the Vine. Some of us have somewhat started to "know" each other via the Vine and talk HERE ... but that's as far as it goes. As far as being in the "state next door" ... I happen to be an Independent in Virginia as well. I have no idea where Floyd lives in the Commonwealth, but we have become "Vine friends" partially because we are both Independents in a very Republican-leaning "State".

Are you going to take nojo and others to task for the same "lame talking points" from the Republican side?

Backhouse

Mitt Romney,

1. Where are your TAX RETURNS?

They are probably in the same place Obama is keeping his college transcripts, in private. If there was something illegal about Romney's tax return the IRS would have already exposed it through a leak. Leaks seem to be something this administration is good at. Romney has as much right to privacy as Obama regarding personal affairs, wouldn't you agree?

2. Does your campaign know that Obamacare extends Medicare's solvency?

Medicare’s reimbursements to doctors are scheduled to drop by 31 percent on January 1, 2013. Only then is Medicare solvent until 2016/2024. Solvency also does not address the continued growth of Medicare. The term solvency is nothing more than Washington DC ability to use smoke and mirrors.

3. Does your campaign know Obamacare saves our elderly $Billions in prescription drug costs?

It may save the elderly billions and it may save every woman in the USA hundreds per year for birth control for that matter. It still ignores the fact that someone has to pay for it. So we tax the rich more you say? How many ways have the Dems suggested that extra tax income be spent? Off hand, it would have paid for the wars, helped pay off the deficit, help with the increasing health care cost and assist with higher education for college students. Let me see, even if we could use the extra cash from the rich, the Dems still want to spend more money than they have in income. It doesn't take rocket surgery to figure out that type of spending leads to more debt.

4. Does your campaign know that the Medicare savings do not affect beneficiaries in...any...way?

Does your campaign know that Ryans proposal doesn't touch current Medicare recipients. They get to keep what they have. Or is it more important to lie to the elderly, scare the hell out of them, just to win an election? I think I know the answer.

Logic Looks like my friends have pretty much said it all. I'll just add and reinforce if you don't like what I have to say and the way i say it do like I do with most of what you have to say. Ignore it and move on down the line.

control freaks? how do you figure? Care to back that up with any proof or is talking out your rear just the norm? Its not about friendship, you guys got OWNED with the Libtardsrus debacle. You cooridinate with a eachother on how to silence the opposition, discuss strategy (oxymoron there) and try to get people banned. and you want to talk about control freaks? have you guys ever sat around and seen how you act? Is it hypocracy or is it just collective heads up your azzes? I think a bit of both

Where:

Tax increases on the wealthy=class warfare - when you seek to redistribute wealth and sell it to the people as they don't do their fair share when you have no idea how much money they give to charities, and how much they help out their community outside of paying taxes it is Class warfare. You are calling them evil for simply not paying enough in taxes when they could be giving millions and millions to the poor and working class without government involvement. (Gates Foundation as an example)

Cutting services for the middle class & poor=fiscal responsibility - Services that are going broke and will not be available for next the generation need to be fixed. Fixing these problems may mean cuts but at least the service will still be available. Ignoring the problems with hopes no one notices you letting these services and systems go bankrupt is not patriotic or responsible.

Raising taxes on the middle class & poor=paying their fair share - Not even a true statement. ROMNEY IS NOT FOR RAISING TAXES ON THE MIDDLE CLASS OR POOR. Romney has talked about tax REFORM which would eliminate many of the loopholes used by big corporations and the rich making them pay more in taxes even at the same or lower rates. He has never mentioned raising taxes on middle class or the poor who don't pay taxes.

Slashing tax rates for the wealthy=more tax revenue Tax reform to make hiring easier and less loopholes. This way people like G.E. who create jobs overseas don't pay zero in taxes like they have under Obama.

Gutting the federal government=building a better nation - It's called not going broke. We are on path to be the next Greece in the upcoming years if we don't get our debt in order. Democrats ignore completely the massive debt they have added and continue to add. Everyone knows this can't continue without a fallout. Republicans want to deal with the problem democrats want to make it worse with more spending.

Vaporizing a budget surplus by voting for two unfunded wars, Medicare Part D, and Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy=a fiscal budget hawk - Supported by votes from Democrats. Tax cuts that got us out of the slow economy that happened after the dot com bubble and attacks on America. How has Obama's recovery plan worked? It hasn't.

Seriously. This is the bizarro world the Republican/Tea Party lives in. It's only bizarro world for people who think they can spend money they don't have raise taxes on people who create jobs and not cost more jobs, stop energy exploration then complain energy cost are to high, and fix a health care system in which 80 - 90% of people said they were happy with.

Vote no to Bain/Pain 2012. Vote against the lame and dishonest 2012. Fours years with no postive results doesn't equal four more years.

Grover Norquist picked Paul Ryan, Not Mitt ROmney

Big vision now turns to the myopic line-items that, in Romney and Ryan’s view, contribute to the federal budget deficit and national debt. Let there be no mistake, picking Ryan was not the safe play for Romney. Mitt pandered to the GOP’s right wing, picking Party boss Grover Norquist’s kindred spirit, a true believer in his zealous “No Tax Pledge.”

http://www.examiner.com/article/romney-picks-ryan-to-slash-the-u-s-government

Romney picks Ryan as his Veep.

Mitt, what do you think this is, Olympic badmitton?

Logic Looks like my friends have pretty much said it all. I'll just add and reinforce if you don't like what I have to say and the way i say it do like I do with most of what you have to say. Ignore it and move on down the line.

I'm fine with whatever you want to say, but unless your name is "By James Downie" I'm reading someone elses long winded crap.

I, for one, am extremely happy about Ryan's bill that named that post office for "Les Aspin". VERY impressive!

Gosh, what control freaks you on the fringe right are.

Yes, only in a liberal world is asking people to do a favor "controlling" yet having the federal government MANDATE you purchase a Government controlled product through a private industry true freedom.

I keep hearing,. and reading about how bad Ryan's budget plan supposedly was, and about how conservative economics didn't work.

Then, I look at the economic mess this country is in now, and I have to ask; "what exactly has Obama done to make things better?"

The answer, of course is absolutely nothing. We still have 8+% unemployment, gas prices are through the roof ($4.00+ per gallon where I live), and people are working longer hours for less pay.

There a number of other economic indicators which have shown no improvement, or are worse then they were when Obama took over.

But, you just don't, and you're not going to get honesty from this administration.

I spent a lot of time believing in, and voting for The Democratic Party and Democratic Candidates.

36 years, in fact.

But, Obama and his entourage have excluded me, and people like me from their agenda.

So, for at least this time around, I will be voting as an unaffiliated, independent voter.

It's time for the Blue Dogs to take The Demcratic Party back, and bring it back to where it belongs; center-left.

The extremeist-leftist policies and agenda of Mr. Obama have brought this country to the brink of socio-economic ruin.

It isn't going to change until we change.

Democrats elected Ronald Reagan in 1980, and we should do the same with Mitt Romney in 2012.

The question we all have to ask ourselves is: "can I (we) affford four (4) more years of Obama?"

Logic, its a birth defect with these fringe left. "Do as I say, not as I do". The liberals believe we are in a Golden Age currently. so yes lets talk about control? We have Obummercare right? Patriot Act right, yep Obama owns that one? Talk of gun control? Oil Control, wealth control, etc. Yeah Im pretty sure the far left has the market on control.

Ceasar Augustus;

How does a snark like you think you have the wherewithall to adopt the non de plume of someone as great as Octavian. He was considered a liberal in his time, you know.

Floyd, I intend to hold him close, stroke his hair at night as I put him to bed (for as long as he allows me to put him to bed), hug and squeeze him and cherish each moment as he grows up. It seems like only yesterday that I was holding him as an infant and I know that the next 13 years will go very quickly.

I also intend to give him as much independence as he can handle as he grows. I'm trying to raise him to be independent in thought and action, the way my Air Force father did for me and my siblings. Unfortunately, my illnesses are forcing him to have more independence than other nearly-6-year-olds because I just am limited in what I can do. Cutting him loose when it's time should be a joyous occasion at each step because it means that I am succeeding in raising him to be independent and confront fears as well as to RESPECT authority without blindly following it.

No chuck he wasnt considered liberal, he was consider a person who Carpe Diem. now if you are trying to equate populares and optimates with democrats and republicans, nice try, loosely at best. If you call me snark, go look at your side of the aisle. so quit with the pseudo intellect, smarter than thou attiitude. You look foolish.

btw way its Caesar not Ceasar non de plume.

Logic, if you don't like reading these posts, you are welocme to leave. If you don't like this, why are you here anyway?

I'm sorry that you don't value friendships. We that do post here value those connections and enjoy discussing these matters with others, even if we don't always agree.

As for your conspiracy theories, is that the way it works on the conservative side?

Cat sounds like the Young Man has a bright future. Having raised a young son who has long since left the nest I can attest to the success of your plan. He doesn't always do things as I would but I am proud of him and what he has achieved. As far as not being able to do as much as you would like I don't know if you know it or not but my wife and his Mother suffers from M.S. so she sometimes couldn't do as much as she would have liked. It just made him appreciate the things that she could do more. Even as far away as he is he calls his mother every day or two to "cheer" her up. Just his way of assuring himself that she's alright and happy. A child's love is unconditional on things like that so don't you worry.

Does your campaign know that Ryans proposal doesn't touch current Medicare recipients. They get to keep what they have. Or is it more important to lie to the elderly, scare the hell out of them, just to win an election? I think I know the answer.

Bentbrass: but what does that say about those non-current Medicare recipients? Is it ok to scare the hell out of them???

Of course, "Logic" because ACA and friendship is SO much the same thing.

By the way: While I recognize that those on the right have little interest in what the Founders REALLY did, for your edification; just this:

The Founders had a very different view of mandates: in 1798, they passed an act for the Relief of Sick and Disabled Seamen mandating that seamen pay 1% of their wages for to establish and use the Marine Hospital Service.

This act was signed by John Adams, President, and you may have heard of him. He was one of the heavy hitters that helped to conceptualize and form this country.

Again: if you don't like certain posters, put them on ignore. We shan't miss you.

StoptheCannibals-2908428

Does your campaign know that Ryans proposal doesn't touch current Medicare recipients. They get to keep what they have. Or is it more important to lie to the elderly, scare the hell out of them, just to win an election? I think I know the answer.

Bentbrass: but what does that say about those non-current Medicare recipients? Is it ok to scare the hell out of them???

Medicare spending is out of control and as an off budget item that has been horribly underfunded since it's inception.

Medicare's 2011 annual report states that the program's financial projections "do not represent a reasonable expectation for actual program operations in either the short range … or the long range" because:

- "Current law would require a physician fee reduction of an estimated 29.4 percent on January 1, 2012—an implausible expectation."

- The Affordable Care Act (a.k.a. Obamacare) eventually reduces "Medicare prices for hospital, skilled nursing facility, home health, hospice, ambulatory surgical center, diagnostic laboratory, and many other services" to "less than half of their level under the prior law. …. Well before that point, Congress would have to intervene to prevent the withdrawal of providers from the Medicare market and the severe problems with beneficiary access to care that would result. … [This] would lead to far higher costs for Medicare in the long range than those projected under current law

Does your campaign know that Ryans proposal doesn't touch current Medicare recipients. They get to keep what they have. Or is it more important to lie to the elderly, scare the hell out of them, just to win an election? I think I know the answer.

This is absolutely true, which begs the question: if the voucher plan is so good for the country, why not implement it now?

The simple reason is that republicans don't want to scare off their voting base (i.e,; seniors) and hope that those of us who will be completely obliterated by Ryan's plan aren't paying enough attention or see this as too far into the future to care.

I'll make you a deal: I'm willing to do away with Medicare and SS on two conditions: immediately stop deducting from my paycheck to fund these programs AND refund me every penny I have contributed since you have been taking that money under the false pretense that I will benefit from them.

As Romney himself said: "what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander". You wanna screw me, screw everyone equally (i,e,; seniors) and let's see you get elected on your platform.

JM, the fact is the Ryan plan doesn't take current seniors off of their Medicare. The only one running around trying to scare seniors are the Democrats suggesting Romney/Ryan want to eliminate their health care, which is an absolute lie.

What isn't a lie is that Medicare is going to be insolvent by 2016, if not sooner, unless Obama can get major cuts to payouts to health care providers providing Medicare. But how long would you work with a minimum 30% salary cut? Not long? then why would we expect our health care providers to do the same?

Is it a scare tactic to tell ANYBODY the truth? that if something isn't drastically done to curb spending Medicare will collapse? Through Obamacare, we'll be adding 10 million people to Medicare and the cost can't be sustained now. How in the world is it scaring people if there is a solution proposed that doesn't effect current people in the program but helps reduce the financial burden on a program that isn't sustainable at current rates?

Bentbrass, you didn't answer my question. If Ryan's plan is so great why not apply it accross the board? Start printing those vouchers now. Tell EVERYONE the truth and wait for the votes to roll in.

I'm not saying that medicare and SS are in great shape, but since I'm not gonna see a penny of that, the government should stop taking my money immediately and refund all I've put in.

JM - Ryan's plan was proposed in the House but was shot down by Democrats. You'll have to ask the Democrats why they haven't come up with some sort of solution for something you're paying for but not going to get anyway. At least Ryan's plan was a start, a debatable footprint for something that addresses the problems we'll face in the near future with Medicaid. Which is decisively different than Obamacare, which was legislation passed that the House didn't even have time to read or even know the details.

Which of those two ideas scare you more? A debatable one or the one pushed through in the dead of the night with little knowledge of the content?

What isn't a lie is that Medicare is going to be insolvent by 2016, if not sooner,

Bentbrass, let's explain this to you very slowly so it doesn't hurt you....

There are a boatload of answers to the Medicare/SS issue. We can raise the eligibility age, play with the "ceiling" on wages subject to the payroll tax, raise the payroll tax rate, cut the inflation factor slightly, means-test, play with the taxability of benefits, increase the premiums slightly, and more.

NONE of those have anything to do with vouchers or obtaining the insurance that would prevent some from ever getting health insurance (at 65, btw). Managing the budget and overspending is hard, and requires a lot of compromise (something we don't have with Republicans right now). I could balance the deficit in 10 minutes if I could give out vouchers and block grants for a fixed amount, where any overspending, by either lower- than- expected revenues, or over-than-expected expenses would be shifted away from the Federal Government and onto States and individuals. That's the Republican answer.

We've spent years trying to compromise with Republicans on a grand bargain, entitlement reform, the budget, the debt ceiling, etc., etc., etc.,

We are at the end of our patience. We will now destroy you if you are not willing to compromise, because we are smarter, better, and on the right side.

And answer the question, Einstein. if the Ryan Medicare Plan is so good, then why don't those 55 and over have to rely on it???

StoptheCannibals-2908428

Bentbrass, let's explain this to you very slowly so it doesn't hurt you....

To be honest, this is as far as I read in your post.

I've been respectful in my conversation with JM and in my post on this topic, even though it's predominately populated with liberals and/or Democrats. But the way you start your comment is a reminder that trying to reason or debate with some Obama voters is like trying to pick up a dog turd by the clean end.

JM, Bentbrass, you didn't answer my question. If Ryan's plan is so great why not apply it across the board?

I think you've answered it yourself JM, it's because you want to continue using Medicare. As some, especially the elderly, have said, they don't want to lose their current form of Medicare. The Ryan plan doesn't change that or take it away. The proposal by Ryan, which was also co-sponsored by Progressive Ron Wyden (D) Oregon (funny how that doesn't get mentioned) says that you'll have the choice of using the Medicare system or by purchasing it through a private insurer, funded up to the cost of Medicare by a voucher. It's a proposed idea. Is there room for debate? Certainly but might I remind you, it's not the GOP running around telling grandma in Florida the evil Republicans want to end your Medicare and leave you with nothing.

What can be said with certainty is that if the spiraling cost of Medicare aren't dealt with, in the near future, everyone on Medicare will face being told "we can't help you because there isn't any money". How do you add 10 million people to the books and not see how this becomes a greater problem? How do you help ANYONE when the system goes broke under it's own weight?

...and he picked (of his top 3 choices) the "pretty" one, even.

No--apart from whether I agree about the rest of your rant--I think you and I can agree Ryan is infinitely brighter than Palin--he has substance, she did not. Her lack thereof was her undoing. Katie Couric isn't going to trick Ryan into screwing up a 5th grade (charitably) geography question.

mindcrime -

I think the problem is going to be that Ryan is not just brighter than Palin (and really, who isn't?) but that he's brighter than Romney himself. He's certainly more direct and articulate, he seems calmer and less defensive than Romney, I don't see him making the kind of unforced errors that Romney continuously does about his wealth, and while I may despise Ryan's principles, at least he HAS principles. But to go along with my reply to Independent Redneck above, Da Noid is absolutely right that in 2008, the ticket became, in effect, Palin/McCain. And I think this one just became Ryan/Romney. And I just don't think Romney's going to be any happier about sharing the spotlight than McCain was.

As our hosts point out above, Obama's choice of Biden in 2008 was more of a traditional "Okay, this one's done, let's just put another layer of icing in the middle". Romney taking Ryan seems more like "Uh-ohhh.....the cake didn't rise like it was supposed to. Quick - get me some more icing! And sprinkles! We need sprinkles! Hey, where's the whipped cream?"

mindcrime: yeah, but you gotta wonder if Paul Ryan's favorite book is "Atlas Shrugged" or "The Satanic Bible."

At lease we won't be hearing about how he can see Russia from his back porch.

Absolutely Mindcrime, Ryan is much more intelligent than Palin. His problem is that he authored an enormously unpopular budget plan, voted for all of the failed Bush policies that got us into this mess, and is one of the faces of the most unpopular congress in history. He basically alienates every group that isn't rich, white, male and relatively young. For a campaign trailing in the polls he isn't going to bring in any new voters for Mitt.

Most of you people really need to wake up. You really think obummer even stands a chance ... against a Wisconsinite? Come on!!! Look at what great things Walker has done for Wisconsin. We have Scott Walker, Ron Johnson, Paul Ryan and the Packers!!! Wisconsin is a rockin' place to live!

mindcrime, does Ryan really have substance or is it that his ability to put cohesives sentences together makes people think he does? Try digging in the weeds, he's a lot like Palin below the surface. What has he accomplished as a Representative? Any big legislation passed? The only thing Ryan is famous for is his efforts at "killing medicare".

Why won't Mitt Romney release his taxes? What is he hiding?

Haven't we seen this movie before?

Why yes we have, and it was a box office bomb, much like Part Deux will be.

I think that Romney picking Ryan to be his VP candidate is not a "bold" move but a desperate one. Romney was having difficulty winning over independent voters, and after last week's events was having trouble keeping his base motivated. Romney had to do this in order to keep his base happy.

Similar to the Palin pick of 2008, this will fire up the base. Unlike Palin, I don't think Ryan will do anything to discourage or alienate the Tea Party voters.

I think this fires up the base and solidifies their turnout, but I fail to see how it captures any additional votes. Independents are not going to get excited about Paul Ryan. Ryan as VP candidate turns the entire Romney campaign to the right, a direction that is away from the middle ground he needed for victory.

What is Paul Ryan's Medicare plan's biggest selling point?

"Oh, if you're 55 or older don't worry, it won't apply to you."

But what if I'm 54 or 50 or 45 or 40.......?

"Well, we don't care about you, we figure the seniors will throw you under the bus and vote for this thing".

And people think this is good because at least it's a plan? If this plan is so good, why doesn't anyone 55 or over get to enjoy it's great benefits?

It's a plan to screw anyone younger than 55, and those of us who are over 55 will NOT throw the younger generation under the bus.

Will Romney flip-flop AGAIN and distance himself from the Ryan budget?

Romney/Ryan....I mean Ryan/Romney.....the scary ones.

Mitt Romney did not pick Paul Ryan. It was Grover Norquist:

Big vision now turns to the myopic line-items that, in Romney and Ryan’s view, contribute to the federal budget deficit and national debt. Let there be no mistake, picking Ryan was not the safe play for Romney. Mitt pandered to the GOP’s right wing, picking Party boss Grover Norquist’s kindred spirit, a true believer in his zealous “No Tax Pledge.”

http://www.examiner.com/article/romney-picks-ryan-to-slash-the-u-s-government

Yup....except for the fact that Obama now has four failed years behind him.

Do I really have to say "It's the Economy Stupid?"

I, for one, am extremely happy about Ryan's bill that named that post office for "Les Aspin". VERY impressive!

Rif,

I disagree that Obama has had complete failure for four years, since the economy is starting to turn around, and the efforts he made did stop complete imminent collapse. Keep in mind, when he got in the office, that's where everything was heading.

His way of doing that, unfortunately, has got us a pretty screwed up situation with enormous debt to fight back.

That being said, Romney, especially with his pick of Ryan, are now the perfect face of exactly what and who put us in this disastrous situation in the first place. The super-rich are not benevolent benefactors should somehow decide for all of the sub-humans underneath them. Giving them free reign to do whatever the f@#$ they want wrecks the country. The "Economy, Stupid". That's not even a question anymore.

So what we basically have is someone who yanked the E-Brake on a car veering on a cliff, now you're bitching about the brake smell, he's starting to put it in reverse, and you theory is, f@#$ that, I'm just going to cut the brakes and see what happens.

Nice.

It is not enough to just extend the solvency of Social Security and Medicare. These half-measures only succeed in delaying the inevitable and making the choices more difficult and the required changes more painful in the future. It doesn't matter whether you agree with Obama or Ryan. Someday soon we'll have to take a mature and hard look at what needs to be done to make these programs sustainable. I haven't seen a plan from the Democrats or Republicans that does this. So far the plan that comes the closest to sustainability is the Ryan plan. There will have to be drastic changes and it does no good to accuse anyone of wanting to hurt seniors or destroy the safety net. The fact is the safety net will be destroyed eventually if we do nothing. Propose a fix that addresses sustainability or get out of the way. You're not helping by bashing a proposal instead of providing constructive criticism.

Awesome pick Romney. I wonder if Joe Biden will even agree to debate him?

Logic,

Considering your name (Logic) I would have thought you might have avoided any reference to Clinton, since he turned the last economic downturn into an economic boom by... what was it again, oh yeah, raising taxes on the super rich and funding the middle class!

No one gives a sh@# what he did in his private life (before he got to office), and you know why? Because, using Logic, he fixed the damn economy.

I call bullsh@# on your name, you're just an emotional idiot.

Travis,

I disagree that Obama has had complete failure for four years, since the economy is starting to turn around

Yeah, no. Most economists think we're headed back into recession. If gas prices keep climbing the debate will be over. Saying something over and over in a hypnotic cadence will not make it so.

Da Noid

No, Ryan is NOT Palin, sorry. Palin was annoying and inexperienced. Ryan has a record and is willing to defend it. Besides, I would prefer Ryan to the RADICAL LEFTIST president we have now.

DaNoid..........Haven't we head ALL of Obama's stump speeches before?

Never in my life have I ever seen or heard a candidate who repeats the same laugh lines, the same buzz words & catch phrases, and the same non-truths about the record(s) of those who held the Presidency before him as much as B. Hussein Obama does.

He gives new meaning to the words trite, and redundant.

Yet, he STILL needs a teleprompter to get it all out!

It would be nice if Obama would say something a little different once in a awhile. His speeches are like the pre-recorded, auto-attendant messages you get when you call the D.M.V.

Joann Pa

I think the problem is going to be that Ryan is not just brighter than Palin (and really, who isn't?) but that he's brighter than Romney himself.

What a nonsensical thing to say!

Mitt was a Baker Scholar at Harvard obtaining a MBA and a JD (same as Obama). That is top 5% of his class or one more major degree and a higher honor than Obama. Ryan graduated Miami of Ohio, a lesser known but solid program and only a Bachellors degree with no honors.

Mitt is no danger of being overshadowed by anyone in this race. Not only that, but he bested a PhD (Gingrich) and fellow MBA and JD recipient in Sen Santorum.

Kteeny--and we all hope you stay there!!!

Stop the Canibals: And people think this is good because at least it's a plan? If this plan is so good, why doesn't anyone 55 or over get to enjoy it's great benefits?

Now that is one powerful statement!!!

Besides that does anyone get a clue as to how much fun it is to deal with the insurance companies running your medicare? Right now if you pay for a supplement you sorta get the clue..They decide if they will cover it or not and they decide who you will see to take care of it. I guess if you haven't been-there-done-that yet you might not understand what it is like to spend you whole day trying to figure out what the heck they billed you for and why?

But, I think the statement "if it is good for people under 55 how come the rest us over 55 can't benefit from it"?? That is killer!!!

@ContemptMe I do not get that at all. Dems were completely wiped out of Congress in 2010 and they show no cognition of that event at all. It's like they just went to their happy place.

Maybe that's for the best.

So, after carpet bombing attack ads during the Republican primaries, Mitt wants to take his ball and go home. What a joke.

Since the President is getting traction on his tax returns, offer a deal- 4 more years of tax returns for all of the Presidents college records (financial, applications, transcripts, etc.). Say I'll give you 4 years for your records.

NYJoe, how about we get Romney's tax returns AND his college transcripts too? We'd like to know how he did in school too and how Romney got his deferments for Vietnam running around in France.

By STEVE PEOPLES 06/05/12 12:53 PM ET

Though an early supporter of the Vietnam War, Romney avoided military service at the height of the fighting after high school by seeking and receiving four draft deferments, according to Selective Service records. They included college deferments and a 31-month stretch as a "minister of religion" in France, a classification for Mormon missionaries that the church at the time feared was being overused. The country was cutting troop levels by the time he became eligible for the draft, and his lottery number was not called.

President Barack Obama, Romney's opponent in this year's campaign, did not serve in the military either. The Democrat, 50, was a child during the Vietnam conflict and did not enlist when he was older.

But because Romney, now 65, was of draft age during Vietnam, his military background – or, rather, his lack of one – is facing new scrutiny as he courts veterans and makes his case to the nation to be commander in chief. He's also intensified his criticism lately of Obama's plans to scale back the nation's military commitments abroad, suggesting that Romney would pursue an aggressive foreign policy as president that could involve U.S. troops.

A look at Romney's relationship with Vietnam offers a window into a 1960s world that allowed him to avoid combat as fighting peaked. His story also demonstrates his commitment to the Mormon Church, which he rarely discusses publicly but which helped shape his life.

Romney's recollection of his Vietnam-era decisions has evolved in the decades since, particularly as his presidential ambitions became clear.

He said in 2007 – his first White House bid under way – that he had "longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam." But his actions, Selective Service records and previous statements show little interest in joining a conflict that ultimately claimed more than 58,000 American lives.

Still, he repeatedly cites his commitment to public service and the nation's military while campaigning for president.

"Greatness in a people, I believe, is measured by the extent to which they will give themselves to something bigger than themselves," Romney said in San Diego last week to a Memorial Day crowd of thousands, flush with military veterans of all ages.

He did not address his own Vietnam history that day. And his campaign has refused to comment publicly on the subject over the past week.

Political rivals, military veterans among them, suggest that Romney's own decision not to serve in the military is in conflict with his pro-military rhetoric.

"He didn't have the courage to go. He didn't feel it was important enough to him to serve his country at a time of war," said Jon Soltz, who served two Army tours in Iraq and is the chairman of the left-leaning veterans group VoteVets.org.

Critics note that the candidate is among three generations of Romneys – including his father, former Michigan Gov. George Romney, and five sons – who were of military age during armed conflicts but did not serve.

As a presidential candidate in 2007, Romney told The Boston Globe he was frustrated, as a Mormon missionary, not to be fighting alongside his countrymen.

"I was supportive of my country," Romney said. "I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there, and in some ways it was frustrating not to feel like I was there as part of the troops that were fighting in Vietnam."

Indeed, Romney strongly supported the war at first. As a freshman at Stanford University, he protested anti-war activists. In one photo, he's shown in a small crowd of students, smiling broadly, wearing a sport jacket and holding up a sign that says, "Speak Out, Don't Sit In."

But the frustration he recalled in 2007 does not match a sentiment he shared as a Massachusetts Senate candidate in 1994, when he told The Boston Herald, "I was not planning on signing up for the military."

"It was not my desire to go off and serve in Vietnam, but nor did I take any actions to remove myself from the pool of young men who were eligible for the draft," Romney told the newspaper.

But that's exactly what Romney did, according Selective Service records. He received his first deferment for "activity in study" in October 1965 while at Stanford.

As Soltz notes, the younger Romney was under no obligation to seek a college-related deferment.

"Vietnam was a war that the poor and the people who couldn't afford to go to college had to go to," Soltz said.

After his first year at Stanford, Romney qualified for 4-D deferment status as "a minister of religion or divinity student." It was a status he would hold from July 1966 until February 1969, a period he largely spent in France working as a Mormon missionary.

He was granted the deferment even as some young Mormon men elsewhere were denied that same status, which became increasingly controversial in the late 1960s. The Mormon church, a strong supporter of American involvement in Vietnam, ultimately limited the number of church missionaries allowed to defer their military service using the religious exemption.

But as fighting in Vietnam raged, Romney spent two and a half years trying to win Mormon converts in France. About that same time, Romney's father would famously speak out against Vietnam, declaring that he had been "brainwashed" by military officials into supporting the conflict.

Young Romney's comments indicated his support had waned, too.

"If it wasn't a political blunder to move into Vietnam, I don't know what is," a 23-year-old Romney would tell The Boston Globe in 1970 during the fifth year of his deferment.

His 31-month religious deferment expired in early 1969. And Romney received an academic studies deferment for much of the next two years. He became available for military service at the end of 1970 when his deferments ran out and he could have been drafted. But by that time, America was beginning to slice its troop levels, and Romney's relatively high lottery number – 300 out of 365 – was not called.

Romney - the scary one.

Okay, so let me tell you how the next 3 months will go:

Republicans: Obama has not fixed this economy. Stagnant GDP and unemployment over 8% for over three years with no sign of improvement in the near future.

Democrats: Republicans are only interested in helping the "rich" and want to cut Medicare and Social Security hurting the middle class only to help the "greedy" wealthy 1%.

Blah, blah, blah, blah,blah............ And I mean that from BOTH sides.

But here is the important topic. Our nation is standing on the railroad tracks and in the distance we can see the headlight of a train heading straight towards us. We have an unsustainable debt and unsustainable promises made to our future children and grandchildren in Social Security and Medicare as they are currently written.

The question is obvious: we need to get off the tracks. The Republicans have at LEAST proposed a solution. You may disagree with the solution but at least it is a starting point for a solution. At least Romney and Ryan are stating we must get off these tracks before the train hits. The Democrats simply criticize the "plan" and that is fine but what is YOUR solution. Democrats don't have one. Their solution is - - nothing. Stand on the tracks and finger point at the Republicans but I have a suggestion: As you finger point at the Republicans turn your back to the train coming because if you don't see it it won't ever hit - right? Wrong........

The train is coming. We must fix our out of control spending. So why don't the Democrats come up with a budget or a plan of their own? Because they know there is no way they can continue to spend like they plan and the economy survive.

In fact the CBO has a computer model where you plug in all the info and it extrapolates out the future. When the model is given the current information the computer crashes in 2037. The model basically says "this can't be right - there is no solution" at 2037.

There IS a problem on the horizon. There IS a train heading our way and it is closer than you think. You are welcome to criticize the Ryan Plan but it is MORE important to come up with an alternate plan too. Democrats need to come up with a plan on how to balance the budget and make a proposal of their own. Then both sides sit down and discuss and compromise a mutual solution.

But the Democrats simply want to stand on the train tracks and scare people on how Republicans want to "take away their benefits" but not get off the tracks themselves. The fact of the matter is we can restructure these programs over the next 20 years that make them viable for years to come. Yes, there will be cuts (but not to CURRENT participants - only people 54 years of age or younger like myself) but I would rather restructure the program so I get a little LESS when I retire or the alternative is nothing at all.

I suggest you at LEAST do some research on your own to find the truth and decide if you want to voluntarily get off the train tracks or wait for the train to literally push you off the tracks...............

Considering your name (Logic) I would have thought you might have avoided any reference to Clinton, since he turned the last economic downturn into an economic boom by... what was it again, oh yeah, raising taxes on the super rich and funding the middle class!

No one gives a sh@# what he did in his private life (before he got to office), and you know why? Because, using Logic, he fixed the damn economy.

Hey, I love Clinton, even voted for him. Yes he did raise some taxes but he also cut taxes like the capital gains tax on the rich. He signed welfare reform, (which Obama has just voided), he even passed that thing called A Budget with republican majorities (something Obama and the Democrats have yet to do with less republicans.) I don't care what he does in his private life, like I said I like the guy, I just thought the joke was funny.

I call bullsh@# on your name, you're just an emotional idiot.

Look who's talking about emotional! Again for all of you who haven't heard this before "LogicReguired" Required being spelled wrong is a joke. I don't think my post are nothing but logic nor do I think on a newsvine logic is required. (By reading most posts it seems like a lack of logic is what is required.) I just think it is funny when people talk about facts and logic and then go on to mention B.S. in a rant that is filled with opinion. I love the posts that talk about how dumb Palin is and then notice that they have 5 mis spelled words. I'm not saying I'm some smart intellectual, just a regular guy who likes sarcasm.

Stopthecanibals,

No one gives a $*#T about a story from "STEVE PEOPLES". Please post your own thoughts and opinions. You can share part of the story and provide a link if someone wants to read what the hacks writes.

Please liberals stop with these long copied posts from other people.

Romney was going to get the Republican base vote, regardless of who he picked. Let's face it, Republicans pick whichever candidate has an R next to the name. So that vote was never in jeopardy.

The moderates and independents, on the other hand, are the people Romney needs.

I guess picking an extremist, tea party, ultra-right-wing VP is one way to get independent votes. Let's be honest... there is nothing a moderate voter loves more than a right-wing extremists pushing a religious based theocracy. (end sarcasm)

Logic

he even passed that thing called A Budget with republican majorities (something Obama and the Democrats have yet to do with less republicans.)

One minor little difference... Clinton was not dealing with Republicans who have stated, on multiple occasions, that their ONLY GOAL is to get rid of Obama. Not fix the economy, not create jobs, not help the middle class... just win the Presidency. That is it. THAT is their ONLY goal.

Clinton actually had Republicans that were willing to work with him. He had Republicans who were willing to... get ready for that "bad word"... COMPROMISE. You know, that thing that adults do on a regular basis. Clinton did not have Republicans that stated they will NEVER compromise, and complain when they get 98% of what they want.

I know, small little difference. But you can not fault Obama for working with Republicans when the GOP outright REFUSES to work with him on ANYTHING. It takes both sides to work out problems... again, something an adult would know.

Logic, as someone who complained in the thread above, now collapsed, about those who are too partisan and too friendly on this board, would you please, along with your fellow conservatives, STOP COLLAPSING the posts here.

There is still freedom of speech in this country and every voice has a right to be heard. Yours, mine, others here.

Mguy: There is a train heading our way and we have two distinct choices in November. Do we continue to dispute the train is heading towards us and pretend it is not happening or address the issue. This election is on that choice.

Republicans are stating very clearly we have a MAJOR collapse that will occur in a relatively short time and we need to fix it now while there is time. Democrats point fingers and pretend there is nothing wrong.

Republicans believe that there are enough people who recognize we have a problem and needs to be fixed. BTW, it doesn't HAVE to be the Ryan Plan - all we need is the Democrats to show us THEIR plan. Oh, that's right - they don't have a plan.

But the train is coming whether Democrats have a plan or not. I believe there are enough intelligent people in this country who recognize we are on a path of collapse if nothing is done. So we now have a choice: Fix the problem or let it collapse. In November that decision will be made.

"But it also wasn’t the kind of VP selection we saw from George W. Bush in 2000 or Barack Obama in 2008 that essentially said: “I’ve got this thing.” Instead, by picking Ryan, Romney said: “I need some help.” "

Boy, the 'spin' by NBC never stops, does it?

I don't remember Bush ever saying "I've got this thing" in 2000 - in fact, it was one of the closest elections ever - remember Florida?

It's Obama that 'needs some help' because both Gallup and Rasmussen have Romney ahead by about 3% among Likely Voters.

I find it interesting how many supposedly 'non-partisan' pollsters are over-sampling Democrats by about 50% to give the false impression that Obama is ahead. If at least one of them 'over-sampled' Republicans, I might believe it's 'random', but it's always Democrats who are favored - leading to a false pro-Obama poll advantage of anywhere from 6% to 10%. A prime example was the NBC/WSJ polls that had 35% Democrats vs only 23% Republicans in their sample, when surveys show slightly more voters that identify as Republicans than Democrats.

Stopthecanibals: I love it, my thoughts exactly. I served in Viet Nam and I learned a lot about killing people. Any combat soldier will tell you the exact same story and they live with it their whole life. To be able to avoid that with a church mission is rather unforgiveable to me, sorry but it is. If he thinks he can send US troops off to die for stupid reasons in countries totally irrelevat then all I can say is he doesn't have a clue. But of course if it seems strange then it usually is. And the first question to ask: Is it about the money? It was then, it is now. The great GOP president Dwight D. Eisenhower told us exactly what it is about and that truth still haunts us. Get over it GOP, lets work on a solution for the 21st century instead of the 1st century.

kteeney, let's see if you still feel that way about Scott Walker 10 or 20 years from now.

The issue I have with Ryan's plan (and Walker's as well) is that they are good in the short term but truly do not address longer term problems that will come up as a result of their policies. This was the problem that Reagan had, his policies helped in the short term, but caused other, larger issues down the road. It's what happened during Bush Jr.'s term. He enjoyed success in the short term, but look what happened at the end of his term, a recession that bled into President Obama's first term.

Now before any of you nutty right wingers start talking about "Blaming Bush" for what happened during the first year of President Obama's term, let me remind you that when Presidents get into office, making effective change does not happen in their first days, weeks, even months. Yes, they may make new policy, but it takes time for that policy to filter out to where it becomes beneficial. To listen to right wingers describe it, you'd think they believed that someone waves a magic wand and POOF, everything is instantly better.

The real world doesn't work that way but to listen to some right wingers, you'd think they not only believed it, but worshipped it. Some are also incapable of a simple understanding and concept that if something takes years economically to grow into a major problem, solving it will not be easy and will not be quickly solved.

Republicans are too short-sighted and looking for the short term gratification, believing that will lead them to the holy grail. When it blows up in their face, they blame everyone but those responsible which are almost always members of their own party. They will blame them though if they are from the opposite party.

And the proof is in the wide variety of comments posted here on this and other websites over the last few years. The sad truth is that they'll never believe it.

Back to Rep. Ryan, what bothers me the most is this. When I first started working 35 years ago, I was given a set of rules to play by in the work field. I was told I had to contribute and that as long as I contributed, I would receive these benefits when I retire. During my years working, those rules changed, asking for more from me while basically giving me the same benefits.

Now that I'm probably 20 years from retirement, they want to change the rules. I'll still have to contribute, but I won't get the same benefits, in fact, I'll receive less. So I've had to put in MORE over the years and by the time I retire, I'll receive LESS. What kind of fairness is that? And if they have their way, I'll have some "voucher" to get what I may need with no guarantee that even that will happen.

Look, I've played by the rules. I've worked every day of my life since I was 16. I've always paid my taxes without looking for every loophole (not that I ever was eligible for any). When asked to contribute more, I did. And now you want to say "Sorry, we're changing the rules and you're not going to have the benefits we told you that you would receive back when you started working." What's next, taking money from my 401k to pay for programs I've already contributed to?

There is a simple way of fixing the problems, only neither side is willing to work with the other side because they don't want the other side to get credit for anything that works. This is why the process is so "jacked up" and why nothing gets done. Stop spending so much and stop wasting so much with my tax dollars. Learn how to use my tax dollars to get the most out of them while not overpaying for things we need or paying at all for things we don't need.

Not betting either side will and we have only ourselves to blame for what is happening. Problem there is that most of you are too busy blaming others to realize you're part of the problem.

TNSEVOL

I think that Romney picking Ryan to be his VP candidate is not a "bold" move but a desperate one. Romney was having difficulty winning over independent voters, and after last week's events was having trouble keeping his base motivated. Romney had to do this in order to keep his base happy.

Similar to the Palin pick of 2008, this will fire up the base. Unlike Palin, I don't think Ryan will do anything to discourage or alienate the Tea Party voters.

I think this fires up the base and solidifies their turnout, but I fail to see how it captures any additional votes. Independents are not going to get excited about Paul Ryan. Ryan as VP candidate turns the entire Romney campaign to the right, a direction that is away from the middle ground he needed for victory.

I mostly agree with you, but I don't see why Romney needed a desperate act as you call it.

Let's face reality, do you really think ardent GOPers would turn around and vote for Obama over Romney if he had picked a moderate as a running mate?

The only thing Romney has accomplished is to alienate older voters and the huge segment of the population that has reasonably middle of the road views. I count myself as one of those.

As much as I may not necessarily like many of Obama's policies, I cannot in all good conscience get behind Romney with Ryan as his running mate. As is correctly pointed out in the article, if Romney's budget views differ so much from Ryan's, then WHY pick him as this will simply make it easy for the DNC to attack the cohesiveness of their plans for this country.

Romney will end up getting the traditional GOP vote, as well as those impatient independents who simply are for Anyone But Obama, but the rest will simply give it another 4 years hoping that the GOP in the House of Representatives can tone down any potential drastic action.

The economy sucks. Unemployment at 8.3% (and that's for the folks still actively pursuing work), gas prices skyrocketing (probably be over $4.00 a gallon by Labor Day, Obamacare hanging over small businesses heads like an anvil in a Roadrunner cartoon, over regulation by the radical EPA and other government agencies, Amnesty by executive order while reducing the protection at our Southern border resulting in an increase of illegals crossing the border, and housing prices not showing any real signs of recovery.

Yeah, let's talk about Paul Ryan and how he's bad for the country. Those in the Pop Media call Ryan a radical after 2 days. We've been going on 4 years and I don't believe I've ever heard them reference Obama as one.

We have to do something to bring this Country back! Obama and Co. has had 4 years with nothing to show for it but trillion dollar deficits!

ProBusiness

Republicans are stating very clearly we have a MAJOR collapse that will occur in a relatively short time and we need to fix it now while there is time. Democrats point fingers and pretend there is nothing wrong.

First, I have yet to see a single Democrat say that "nothing" is wrong. You just made that up. If you were honest, you would admit that both sides recognize a problem and the debate is HOW we fix it.

BTW... Republicans are first concerned with winning the Presidency, and any concern about the "train" you speak of comes in at second place. I can link video PROOF of this, if you like.

It comes down to this: Republicans like you believe the answer is to remove all taxes on the rich because they will supposedly "hire more people" if you do that. Problem is (1) business does not hire based on their taxes, they hire based on demand. (2) Technology has replaced many workers, requiring a smaller staff to run a business. And (3) most of the rich pay very little in taxes anyway, because of write-offs, deductibles, and various other tax loopholes. So any tax decrease will be pointless, as most already pay a very little percent in the first place.

On top of that, the Republican plan will require the middle class to pay more. My biggest issue is that every dollar taken from the middle class is one less dollar they spend in a business... a business owned by the rich. On the other hand, the rich will not change their spending habits with higher tax rates. (I know, I live in one of the most expensive areas in the country. I guarantee my neighbors will still buy as many Mercedes as they currently do, their wives will still go to Tiffany's every week, and they will still make their "Real housewives" TV series)

So as I see it, the Republican plan will take money from the middle class... money that they would have spent in MY company. So that comes down to less revenue for my business, which is a greater concern than a small tax increase. I recognize that every thing in an economy is intertwined, I see the big picture... whereas people like you see everything in silos, and fail to see how the middle class affects you.

From Catholicculture.org 4/2012

CWN - April 18, 2012

From Our Store: Moral Issues (eBook)

Bishop Stephen Blaire, chairman of the Committee on Domestic Justice and Human Development of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB), said that proposed budget cuts recently passed by the House of Representatives “failed to meet [the] moral criteria” set forth by the USCCB.
In four letters addressed to leaders of congressional committees, Bishop Blaire weighed in on several cuts to specific programs:

• “The Catholic bishops urge you to protect funding for programs that serve poor and vulnerable people, such as Housing for the Elderly (Section 202) and People with Disabilities (Section 811), Housing for People with AIDS (HOPWA), Veterans Affairs Supported Housing (HUD-VASH), McKinney-Vento Homeless Assistance, and Tenant- and Project-based Rental Assistance, as well as other programs that are vital to ensuring that vulnerable Americans have safe and affordable housing.”
• “I also reiterate our concern with proposals to increase the minimum amount of rent that can be charged to families receiving housing assistance.”
• “Cuts to nutrition programs such as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) will hurt hungry children, poor families, vulnerable seniors and workers who cannot find employment. These cuts are unjustified and wrong. If cuts are necessary, the committee should first look towards reducing and targeting commodity and subsidy programs that disproportionately go to large growers and agribusiness.”
• “The bishops’ conference urges you to resist significant cuts to both domestic and international food aid and conservation and rural development programs. Major reductions at this time of economic turmoil and rising poverty will hurt hungry, poor and vulnerable people in our nation and around the world.”
• “The bishops’ conference supports farm safety net programs such as crop insurance and disaster assistance that are targeted to the needs of small to medium sized farmers and ranchers. Savings should be used to fund hunger and nutrition programs that serve people in need.”
• “I wish to renew our strong opposition to unfair proposals that would alter the Child Tax Credit to exclude children of hard-working, immigrant families.

Joined by Bishop Richard Pates, chairman of the USCCB’s International Committee on Justice and Peace, Bishop Blaire also emphasized the importance of six domestic programs (WIC, TEFAP, SNAP, CSFP, CSP, and VAPG) and four international programs (PL-480 Title II, Safe Box, Local and Regional Purchase, and 202e Funds).

i didn't know about romney's deferrments, most like because he had a rich, influential father who helped him get them, let's face it money always has clout. but more than that, i feel his 'religious' deferment really bothers me. my grandfather was a Quaker and for those who don't know, Quakers were( and i suppose still are) conscienous objectors. And yet, my grandfather joined the military and was awarded the Silver Star for heroism above and beyond the call of duty for helping get information across the 'no man's land' areas that they had in europe during the war. He never carried a gun. he never killed anyone-amazing and he lived a long happy life. if romney really wanted to serve his country, he could have offered to do work that didn't necessarily include combat, but he chose to travel around europe. i didn't really have any respect or him before, i have less now.

Mguy:So many incorrect comments I don't know where to start.........

1) You state "remove all taxes on the rich". Not ONE person has stated removing taxes and what we are saying is NO TAX INCREASES!! Especially to get us out of this stagnant economy. NOBODY said tax decreases to fix this mess. Just not RAISING taxes right now.

2) You state 'businesses do not hire based on their taxes". That is incorrect. But let me clarify. Businesses hire based on their COSTS!! If costs increase (due to tax increases) then they have less money to spend on investment and expansion and an important part of investment and expansion is labor. If investment and expansion decrease so does labor. EVERY college economics textbook states this so if you disagree with this you disagree with EVERY economics textbook in the United States. I doubt you want to do that.

3) You state "technology has replaced many workers". Yes, but that means the cost to make product decreases, which means the demand increases, which means MORE product must be made and thus more workers hired. I can't teach you economics in a post but, in summary, MORE jobs are created with this economic growth but the problem is the jobs created are the higher skilled jobs (computer programming, accountants, those that can fix the technological equipment, etc.) and the lower skilled workers are what is being lost. Retraining is necessary but that is for a different discussion.

4) You state "Most of the rich pay very little taxes anyway". Totally incorrect. As an average tax rate the wealthiest pay the highest of all categories. From the Internal Revenue Service own data (2009 - last year of full data):

Top 1% pay average tax rate of 24.01%

Top 1% to 5% pay 16.40%

Top 5% to 10% pay 11.40%

Top 10% to 25% pay 8.23%

Top 25% to 50% pay 5.58%

Bottom 50% pay 1.85%

This comes directly from the IRS website. Check it out if you don't believe me.

5) You state "will require the middle class to pay more". Sorry, that is just an idiotic statement and is only something that could be repeated by someone who does not even bother to look at the Republican plan. You see the concept of the Republican Party is to reduce spending to historical levels, grow the economy, and get more people working. By cutting spending and growing the economy tax revenues increase but not because taxes are increasing (or decreasing) for any particular group but because MORE people working is more tax revenue.

Now I can't convince somebody differently if they won't even bother looking at facts but if you actually DID go through some effort to actually research you will see that all the talking points you repeated are that: Talking points for those either not smart enough to look at facts or too lazy. I am going to make the assumption that you ARE smart enough so I guess it just makes you lazy.

LogicReguired

Stopthecanibals,

No one gives a $*#T about a story from "STEVE PEOPLES". Please post your own thoughts and opinions. You can share part of the story and provide a link if someone wants to read what the hacks writes.

Cry me a river. There, is that short enough?

I have to sit and read scroll thru every long-winded, un-intelligible, right-wing manifesto every day. I copied out a a/p article so people would read it. Now, since you referred back to it, I'll have to print it again. Sorry loser....

By STEVE PEOPLES 06/05/12 12:53 PM ET

Though an early supporter of the Vietnam War, Romney avoided military service at the height of the fighting after high school by seeking and receiving four draft deferments, according to Selective Service records. They included college deferments and a 31-month stretch as a "minister of religion" in France, a classification for Mormon missionaries that the church at the time feared was being overused. The country was cutting troop levels by the time he became eligible for the draft, and his lottery number was not called.

President Barack Obama, Romney's opponent in this year's campaign, did not serve in the military either. The Democrat, 50, was a child during the Vietnam conflict and did not enlist when he was older.

But because Romney, now 65, was of draft age during Vietnam, his military background – or, rather, his lack of one – is facing new scrutiny as he courts veterans and makes his case to the nation to be commander in chief. He's also intensified his criticism lately of Obama's plans to scale back the nation's military commitments abroad, suggesting that Romney would pursue an aggressive foreign policy as president that could involve U.S. troops.

A look at Romney's relationship with Vietnam offers a window into a 1960s world that allowed him to avoid combat as fighting peaked. His story also demonstrates his commitment to the Mormon Church, which he rarely discusses publicly but which helped shape his life.

Romney's recollection of his Vietnam-era decisions has evolved in the decades since, particularly as his presidential ambitions became clear.

He said in 2007 – his first White House bid under way – that he had "longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam." But his actions, Selective Service records and previous statements show little interest in joining a conflict that ultimately claimed more than 58,000 American lives.

Still, he repeatedly cites his commitment to public service and the nation's military while campaigning for president.

"Greatness in a people, I believe, is measured by the extent to which they will give themselves to something bigger than themselves," Romney said in San Diego last week to a Memorial Day crowd of thousands, flush with military veterans of all ages.

He did not address his own Vietnam history that day. And his campaign has refused to comment publicly on the subject over the past week.

Political rivals, military veterans among them, suggest that Romney's own decision not to serve in the military is in conflict with his pro-military rhetoric.

"He didn't have the courage to go. He didn't feel it was important enough to him to serve his country at a time of war," said Jon Soltz, who served two Army tours in Iraq and is the chairman of the left-leaning veterans group VoteVets.org.

Critics note that the candidate is among three generations of Romneys – including his father, former Michigan Gov. George Romney, and five sons – who were of military age during armed conflicts but did not serve.

As a presidential candidate in 2007, Romney told The Boston Globe he was frustrated, as a Mormon missionary, not to be fighting alongside his countrymen.

"I was supportive of my country," Romney said. "I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there, and in some ways it was frustrating not to feel like I was there as part of the troops that were fighting in Vietnam."

Indeed, Romney strongly supported the war at first. As a freshman at Stanford University, he protested anti-war activists. In one photo, he's shown in a small crowd of students, smiling broadly, wearing a sport jacket and holding up a sign that says, "Speak Out, Don't Sit In."

But the frustration he recalled in 2007 does not match a sentiment he shared as a Massachusetts Senate candidate in 1994, when he told The Boston Herald, "I was not planning on signing up for the military."

"It was not my desire to go off and serve in Vietnam, but nor did I take any actions to remove myself from the pool of young men who were eligible for the draft," Romney told the newspaper.

But that's exactly what Romney did, according Selective Service records. He received his first deferment for "activity in study" in October 1965 while at Stanford.

As Soltz notes, the younger Romney was under no obligation to seek a college-related deferment.

"Vietnam was a war that the poor and the people who couldn't afford to go to college had to go to," Soltz said.

After his first year at Stanford, Romney qualified for 4-D deferment status as "a minister of religion or divinity student." It was a status he would hold from July 1966 until February 1969, a period he largely spent in France working as a Mormon missionary.

He was granted the deferment even as some young Mormon men elsewhere were denied that same status, which became increasingly controversial in the late 1960s. The Mormon church, a strong supporter of American involvement in Vietnam, ultimately limited the number of church missionaries allowed to defer their military service using the religious exemption.

But as fighting in Vietnam raged, Romney spent two and a half years trying to win Mormon converts in France. About that same time, Romney's father would famously speak out against Vietnam, declaring that he had been "brainwashed" by military officials into supporting the conflict.

Young Romney's comments indicated his support had waned, too.

"If it wasn't a political blunder to move into Vietnam, I don't know what is," a 23-year-old Romney would tell The Boston Globe in 1970 during the fifth year of his deferment.

His 31-month religious deferment expired in early 1969. And Romney received an academic studies deferment for much of the next two years. He became available for military service at the end of 1970 when his deferments ran out and he could have been drafted. But by that time, America was beginning to slice its troop levels, and Romney's relatively high lottery number – 300 out of 365 – was not called.

Romney - the scary one.

New auto answering system at DNC Headquarters:

To hear irrelevant lies about Bain Capital - Dial 1

To hear diversionary rhetoric about Romeny's tax returns - Dial 2

To hear lies about Republican obstructionism - Dial 3

To hear lies about how Romney killed a cancer patient - Dial 4

To hear about amnesty for illegal aliens by prediential decree - Dial 5

To hear about destruction of welfare reforms by presidential decree - Dial 6

To hear why the private sector is doing fine - Dial 7

To hear how poeple who build companiies don't actuall build them - Dial 7

To learn what a trillion dollar a year deficit can do for you - Dial 8

To learn the benefits of Robin Hood economics and bigger goverment - Dial 9

To learn how I will resolve the long term insolvency of entitlement programs and the country - Call back after November 6th.

You forgot Senator Joe McCarthy. Is the Senate Un-American Activities Committee still in business?

pgulrich,

You forgot one....

To hear about how the Obama campaign is going to show you how Romney and Ryan are so scary that you'll never vote for them (and how Romney and Ryan are going to regret they ever ran for high office), please hold for the next available representative....

Romneys plan gives himself more tax breaks and makes middle class and poor pay for the with higher taxes. Ryan plan kills Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid, and gives more tax breaks to the rich and once again makes middle class and poor pay for them.

Obama/Biden 2012

Yeah, let's talk about Paul Ryan and how he's bad for the country. Those in the Pop Media call Ryan a radical after 2 days. We've been going on 4 years and I don't believe I've ever heard them reference Obama as one.

WHAT????

You've never heard Obama the Marxist, the Socialist, the Obummer, the radical/Alinski Moslem, the DemoRATS, the Demoncrats, Strech-Pelosi, plugs-Biden (I have to admit, some are funny), Clinton/Monica jokes, Kennedy/Chappoceoutec (sp), etc., etc.?

And that was just today......

Have you been on this planet the last 3.5 years (and before that)?

Harley Chic

You clearly illustrate why Obama will win again. BTW, I am not overly happy about it, but I really dislike BOTH candidates this time. Spout all your hate however you want, but you can't vote AGAINST anybody, you can only vote for someone. And I think less people will vote for Romney now, based upon his VP choice who wants to gut Medicare. I'm 61, stay the hell away from my Medicare. Unlike more humanitarians, I don't care if it runs out of funds in 2040, I'll be dead anyway.

You clearly illustrate why Obama will win again. BTW, I am not overly happy about it, but I really dislike BOTH candidates this time. Spout all your hate however you want, but you can't vote AGAINST anybody, you can only vote for someone. And I think less people will vote for Romney now, based upon his VP choice who wants to gut Medicare. I'm 61, stay the hell away from my Medicare. Unlike more humanitarians, I don't care if it runs out of funds in 2040, I'll be dead anyway.

Funny since it was Obama who raided $500 billion from Medicare already. He took you Medicare and you didn't even notice!

Q22,

Universal Health Care V. Privatized Health Care.

Are you F@#$ nuts? The seniors will suffer when all that matters with health care if milking every last dime from them. Or why don't you ask your health insurance why it denied your last 10 claims?

But Obama is raiding the Medicare funds for his health program, and the seniors will still get health care. Ryan wants to give us vouchers and send us on our way to find hopefully a program where the voucher covers the cost.

Universal Health Care V. Privatized Health Care.

Are you F@#$ nuts? The seniors will suffer when all that matters with health care if milking every last dime from them. Or why don't you ask your health insurance why it denied your last 10 claims?

Obama did not give us Universal health care - he gave us a 2k+ page monstrosity that leaves much of the actual decision making to bureaucrats. Oh - and it raided Medicare in the process.

It was hardly a surprise, and not really a secret. Romneycare needed to shift attention away from his tax returns and recent foreign disaster abroad. What does he do? Calls attention to the fact that he required Ryan's tax returns in the vetting process - something he refuses to do with his potential bosses - us.

This guy is so stupid he can't get out of his own way.

But Obama is raiding the Medicare funds for his health program, and the seniors will still get health care. Ryan wants to give us vouchers and send us on our way to find hopefully a program where the voucher covers the cost.

No - he is gambling that the feds can demand lower payments to Medicare providers. If they do they will have to raise prices on the non-medicare patients and everyone's health care will go up again. If they providers start declining Medicare patients then you are screwed. Nice that your President Gambled on you healthcare eh?

Not only that but the CBO explosed the ACA as a program that raised taxes for more than just health care program costs when they disclosed that although having the ACA is going to cost 1.7 Trillion over 10 years, that the elimination of the ACA will add 100 Billion to the annual deficits!

Q22

No - he is gambling that the feds can demand lower payments to Medicare providers.

Where do you get that bull? The ACA cuts what the fed will pay for medical services. In the Ryan Plan - NO CUTS to payments. Costs savings come from lower administrative costs than government can do AND the elimination of the 25% of fraud in medicare. If you can cut the fraud out, the program will become solvent!

Costs savings come from lower administrative costs than government can do AND the elimination of the 25% of fraud in medicare. If you can cut the fraud out, the program will become solvent!

The most laughable part of your post is that they will cut the 25% of Medicare fraud - this from the bozos who can't even get a handle on the massive amount of food stamp fraud. It's all going to blow up like a trick cigar - too bad the jokes on us.

Abramoff went to prison along with the sacrificial lambs of the GOP demagogue. Abramoff and his group were the most morally bankrupt, self serving POS to ever step foot in DC. I was at the DOI when he was set lose on "helping" with the budget formulation. Yes, Dub-ya gave him access and Gail Norton helped him to the wealth along with her own NGO in Colorado. Did you ever wonder why Norton resigned overnight? Griles thought he would be handed a slap on the hand instead he was given cuffs on the hands. LOL! You must be of the lowest level of intelligence, if any at all, to bring Abramoff's name into any blog. Give me a break and do not insult the intelligence of the people on this website with your senseless rhetoric on the good Abramoff did for this country. He ended up mooching off this country in prison and was the gift that kept on giving even after being jailed. LMFAO!

TBMike, you are right on it- Once you get in the program you find out just how bad the private supplement plans are. It is better to just go to Medicare itself. I can imagine what would happen when we don't have a choice. You know the simpletons seem to forget that business is there to make a profit. Just how is it that the cost of care would be less? Right, one way or the other the costs are passed on. And has anyone looked at a medical bill lately? 1500 for a 5 minute office visit! $5000 for a MRI to look at a torn ligament (that one takes 15 minute and no doctor required). It appears there is no competition to establish competitive prices in the medical/health care field. We need change in health care but it isn't a simple question of handing it off to an insurance company! Just take a second to think about it. Then get scared when you see who is going to make your decisions on care if knee jerk politicans think they know a better way.

Excellent post Northstar!

Q22 and Contempt -- where are you getting your $500 and $700 BILLION numbers from? Got a source? or just something you heard at WalMart?