2012: Gone with the Wind?

Obama leads in a new Pew poll, 51%-41%.

Iowa -- gone with the wind? “Monday's headline in the Des Moines Register seems destined to echo throughout Iowa until Election Day: ‘Lines now drawn on wind tax credit: Romney opposes it, Obama favors it,’” National Journal writes. “Rarely in presidential politics can such dichotomic declarations be made without the accompaniment of asterisks galore. But in this case, it was appropriate; the difference is truly cut and dried.”

“Iowa Gov. Terry Branstad isn't very happy that Mitt Romney opposes a one-year extension of a tax credit for wind energy,” USA Today writes. “The issue puts the presidential candidate on the other side of Branstad and Sen. Chuck Grassley, the top two Republicans in a swing state. The tax credit will cost the federal government $1.6 billion this year. In an interview today with Radio Iowa, Branstad blamed ‘confusion’ in Romney's campaign and says he'd like to speak to the candidate so he becomes ‘educated’ on the issue.”

Discuss this post

We have wasted enough millions and billions on green projects that lose our money. If there is a viable product to be had, it will rise to the top in the free market. Why do we have to make investments in the next corporate giant that will get filthy rich and not pay us back. Just like we supposedly saved GM. In my mind they will not have made a profit until they pay back every cent it took to bail them out.

I will spare you the list of Obama's failed energy investments and the price tag. It has been posted here enough times that people ought to know. Lets fix the administrative disaster then work on energy one is way more threatening.

  • 5 votes
Reply#1 - Fri Aug 3, 2012 9:01 AM EDT

You do realize that the vast majority of our budget problems are a direct result of energy costs? That all the price increases in the goods and services we're paying for are going up as a result of energy costs? Yet this isn't something we should address and invest in? selfishness and utter foolishness.

until we have a non-fossil fuel based energy economy, there is little that can be done about our other economic issues as energy costs are the underlying problem in the entire economy, but push that on down the line to future generations, we haven't given them enough problems to deal with yet so why not add one more...

  • 10 votes
#1.1 - Fri Aug 3, 2012 9:28 AM EDT

Sane, you were able to post your opinion on this website because forty years ago, the government initiated a research program that ultimately led to the development of the internet. No one could've appreciated the impact the internet would have on our lives back then - communication, commerce, entertainment, education - it's pretty amazing. You might want to dig in your heels and oppose investments in green energy and new technologies, but these are big projects and need big investments. If the US doesn't invest in them ... China or India will and we'll be importing their products the rest of our lives.

  • 12 votes
#1.2 - Fri Aug 3, 2012 9:51 AM EDT

I'd say just the opposite. The federal government gives billions in subsidies to oil companies - an energy source we KNOW to be finite, while the oil companies themselves make record profits. THAT's wasteful. And we shelter the 'market' from the true costs of our fossil-fuel only energy policy by subsidizing both the costs of securing the oil AND the costs of remedying the pollution it causes.

Had the government not funded a space program, would the 'market' have driven us to the moon? Would you consider the US space program a 'failed investment'?

The bottom line is we can invest in clean energy markets, or cede those markets to countries (like China) who are investing aggressively. Which strategy will prove to be better for our country in 10 or 20 years?

  • 11 votes
#1.3 - Fri Aug 3, 2012 9:52 AM EDT

Pacific NW Mark Exactly right.

Americans don't realize $4.00 gasoline is NOT market price, we are protected from the true cost of burning fossil fuels, as anyone who has driven a car in Europe finds out.

  • 6 votes
#1.4 - Fri Aug 3, 2012 10:32 AM EDT

wasted millions and billions on green? i think not! where do you get your incorrect info, fox fear news?

investment is the governments job. its responsibility is to keep the economy balanced. new technology needs a step up and the tools to create a market for the product.

mr romney thrives on those that fail. he deestroys reveenue, he destorys communities, he destroys lives. he is not a creator, he is a deestroyer, a liar, a cheat, and a deceiver, and right now he is deceiving you.

we are all comming out of another great depression, the last one took 13 yrs and a world war. how can you expect to acheive a faster outcome when the republican party and their absolute NO on jobs, NO on investments, NO on health care, NO NO NO, but yes on tax cuts forr the wealthy. presideent obama has saved millions of jobs and is slowly but surely bringing this country back. of ccourse it will take time, but they didnt build rome in a day!

  • 2 votes
#1.5 - Fri Aug 3, 2012 10:45 AM EDT

Sane - Then make sure you tell your Congress Representatives to take away all the billions that they give the oil and gas company's in tax incentives. Don't be hypocritical - be fair.

  • 2 votes
#1.6 - Fri Aug 3, 2012 11:37 AM EDT

C'mon, Obama has to pay back the idiots who voted for him.

  • 1 vote
#1.7 - Fri Aug 3, 2012 12:58 PM EDT

Our government has, historically, put measures in place to support new industries which hold the potential to be of great importance to the US. This has included, petroleum, natural gas, electricity, the internet, ethanol, plastics, aluminum, gold mining, rail roads, trucking, and many others.

IMO, Mitt Romney is so out of touch with what is happening in the world, he really does not know that many people in his own party favor wind energy.

Why would anyone vote for him ?

    #1.8 - Fri Aug 3, 2012 2:10 PM EDT

    So we should not be providing tax credits to U.S. businesses, farmers, and communities. The wealthy are going to do what with their great tax savings? So far it looks like all they do is put it in Swiss banks or buy senators.

      #1.9 - Sat Aug 4, 2012 10:49 PM EDT

      Global oil is peaking or has already peaked. We have to look to the future in alternative energies. Countries all over the world are doing that. Big Energy has to do that and they ARE doing that.

      WIND: WE ARE SECOND IN WIND ENERGY PRODUCTION globally and considered to be pioneers of wind energy.

      Wind produces significant energy...and does not pollute.

        #1.10 - Sun Aug 5, 2012 9:44 PM EDT
        Reply

        Great let another country make the investment. They have certainly made fortunes from our research money. All we have to to is ignore copyright laws as they do and build it cheaper. Worked for them. And yes Ursula the internet was built by use of the military budget, not a private sector gift. Are you saying we need to increase the military budget? Because that is the argument you just made. I'm for it. I do agree with Pacific though there should not be such thing as an oil subsidies. Good point and well stated.

        Tzal, The budget problems are caused by spending money we don't have, like Obama care. Perfect example. Besides, the biggest we have is Obama has not come up with a budget in three years, only extensions of spending. That is the budget problem. We have never had a more irresponsible leader in our history when it comes to the budget. Also government makes more in tax from every gallon of gas sold than the profit margin to oil companies. Add to that the cut of profits they get for licensing, taxing and legal cost to defend from ridiculous law suites. The cost of products is more inflated by arbitrary added red tape than any justifiable increase caused by getting the energy. Our budget problems are in very little part to do with energy costs. Put the budget blame where it belongs, at the feet of the man who was supposed to control it.

          Reply#2 - Fri Aug 3, 2012 10:50 AM EDT

          i'm now assuming you are just a troll.

          congress is responsible for the budget. the fact that you blame this on the president shows you're uninformed about how your democracy works, and just a troll.

          • 1 vote
          #2.1 - Fri Aug 3, 2012 12:52 PM EDT
          Reply

          “Iowa Gov. Terry Branstad isn't very happy that Mitt Romney opposes a one-year extension of a tax credit for wind energy,” USA Today writes.

          Gov. Branstad doesn't have to worry. Willard will lose!!!

          • 3 votes
          Reply#3 - Fri Aug 3, 2012 10:59 AM EDT

          Kr- It is not ,nor ever was it ,the governments job to make venture capital investments with our taxes, as a ploy to influence the free market. That is ridiculous and way uninformed. Show me that in our Constitution or bill of rights. Some people are very confused about what they call rights or the role of government. It's not in there by the way. You made that up.

            Reply#4 - Fri Aug 3, 2012 11:01 AM EDT

            The US Congress blocks a Senate bill to reform (reduce) farm subsidies. Governor Branstad and Sen. Chuck Grassley support Congress in that one I suppose.

            Formula for election: "Praise fiscal responsibility and pass the pork".

              #4.1 - Sat Aug 4, 2012 4:27 PM EDT
              Reply

              Let's see--Sen. Olympia Snowe, retires; Rep. Steve LaTourette, retiring; Sen. Richard Lugar, forced out; numerous moderate House Republicans (Judy Biggert and Robert Dold of Illinois, Charlie Bass of New Hampshire, Nan Hayworth and Chris Gibson of New York, Roscoe Bartlett of Maryland and California’s Brian Bilbray) could lose their re-election bids to ultra-rightwing Tea Party-ers. Add to these all the moderate Republicans who either retired or lost primary bids or changed party affiliation (well, Arlen Specter) who were part of the 109th Congress--see Nate Silver's list from his NYT story of May 8--and we can see dramatically how the Republican Party is moving (actually rushing) to the far, far, FAR ultra-radical rightwing conservative end of its ideology. This is a problem not only for reasonable Republicans but for the nation as a whole. How can moderate Republicans morally stand by and watch these ideological fanatics do such harm to our country? Isn't it time more reasonable Republicans took John McCain-like stands against the Michelle Bachmann's in their Party? Maybe it's time for a new Republican Party to split off from the wingnuts.

              • 1 vote
              Reply#5 - Fri Aug 3, 2012 12:07 PM EDT

              don't forget senators like Chuck Hagel and the others who have stopped running for office because of the hyper partisanship over the past 6 years. i know that i miss Hagel the most because he was from my state, and one of the few republicans that i had absolute faith in doing the right thing regardless of political winds...

              • 1 vote
              #5.1 - Fri Aug 3, 2012 12:55 PM EDT
              Reply

              Actually, Sane, it is in the Constitution -- the tax and spend clause. And government has always done it -- whether for steamships or airplanes or railroads or the internet.

              Most countries do respect our patents, and the US still has more patents than most of the world (though our lead is declining) due in large part to our research grants and to our university system. Heck, most countries respect our copyrights (though that is an entirely different matter than patents).

              The issue is whether for the first time in history the US will let some other country get the lead on promising startups.

              p.s. The main reason that alternative energy is not competitive is the degree to which we subsidize oil and coal -- both directly and indirectly (by not holding them accountable for the vast externalities of oil production, the most recent attempt to make them bear their full costs "cap and trade" went nowhere).

              • 1 vote
              Reply#6 - Fri Aug 3, 2012 12:14 PM EDT

              Sane I encourage you like I encourage all voters to base their votes on facts, not propaganda. All energy sources in the USA receive government subsidies and tax benefits. So if we take your argument to its extreme, then we should not have any public investment, because if it makes sense, it would get done. Well as an example lets take nuclear. Without government tax and insurance guarantees, the industry would fail. Oil and gas is currently subsidized and was helped in its infancy with government help. So we can evaluate the merits of a particular energy policy, but let's be real about our policy

              • 1 vote
              Reply#7 - Fri Aug 3, 2012 12:43 PM EDT

              Branstad blamed ‘confusion’ in Romney's campaign and says he'd like to speak to the candidate so he becomes ‘educated’ on the issue.”

              Why do I sense another upcoming Willard flop on this issue?

              • 1 vote
              Reply#8 - Fri Aug 3, 2012 1:50 PM EDT

              Wrong again! The congress APPROVES the budget. The White house proposes the budget. I see how you want to twist the blame, and Congress sure sucks. But all other Presidents got the process. This guy just says give me the money and I will let you know how I spend it. He has failed to lead again. He has not proposed what he will do with the money so Congress is doing right to not approve of the release of funds. That is how the tax payers have a say in the process. Obama wants to remove us from that process just like a king or dictator.

                Reply#9 - Fri Aug 3, 2012 4:29 PM EDT

                Phil, you make a good and informed point. The difference from past investments and those that vaporized under Obama, was they had proven viable as energy sources and and could be nurtured and developed by purchase and used by entities like the military or taxed as utilities. Not wads of money thrown at projects already proven not to be worthy of pursuit, and tapped out in a year. But your point is made and the spirit of the statement needed correction. The type of and volume of money lost on the projects that Obama has lost the money on, are very questionable and so is the manner it was handled in. In the past that kind of expenditures were well vetted before being funded.

                  Reply#10 - Fri Aug 3, 2012 9:15 PM EDT

                  Reminds me of an LBJ quote: "If I walked across the Potomac this afternoon, the news headlines would read President can't swim."

                    #10.1 - Mon Aug 6, 2012 2:15 PM EDT
                    Reply

                    Hey, How's that Chevy Volt selling??

                    I live in Vegas, and I have not seen one Chevy Volt on the streets.....ever. Not one.

                    I can't understand why we arn't rushing down to our Chevy dealerships to buy a new $40,000 Volt that can go 40 miles between charges. Can't figure that out. LOL

                      Reply#11 - Sun Aug 5, 2012 10:37 AM EDT

                      I was a public employee for 21 years. I was very well paid. Tons of benefits. Now I am retired on a fat pension, and am living large. I believe I got one of the last pensions in the country.

                      I got mine folks, now go out there and try to get yours. LOL Joseph E Parent, newsvine June 7 2012.

                      Good for you. Unfortunately your public employee unions are bankrupting municipalities all over the country, including North Las Vegas. We can only hope that your pension will be negated in bankruptcy proceedings because it is one of the biggest line items in many municipal budgets.

                      Yes, the officials who handed out the sweetheart deals for political support should go to jail and the pensions should be voided.

                      You are plenty young enough to go out and get a real job like you exhort others to do.

                      You reinforce my image of the desert Teapublicans, eager to feed at the public trough while extolling the virtues of self-reliance.

                        Reply#12 - Mon Aug 6, 2012 3:41 PM EDT

                        And America is blind, and the 2yr unemployment and welfare of millions is run out in 2013; And still less jobs than when Obama started.

                        If you want a job next year, you BETTER vote Obama out this year,company's are laying off and closing as we post; Oh yea, The 5000 new IRS agents will be coming for you whether you have a job or not.

                        If you want a job next year, you better get Obama out this year.

                        And America is blind, and the 2yr unemployment and welfare of millions is run out in 2013; And still less jobs than when Obama started.

                          Reply#13 - Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:20 AM EDT
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