Nobody wants to "shut down" SS and Medicare. Stop with the crap comments. SS and Medicare both are bloated, inefficient, and need a lot of work. All he want's to do is get DC to admit that as the way things are now, there WILL BE NO medicare and SS if reasonable actions aren't taken now because it will self-implode under it's own weight if we just let it run as it's currently being ran.

Besides, I thought Obamacare was supposed to cause Medicare to "self-reduce", anyway. So what's your gripe about trimming Medicare? Get your facts straight. Your gripe is with Obama. It was Obama and his AHA that cut 500 billion dollars from Medicare.

STexan, lets work together on a solution....

We could tie SS to a different inflation index that includes substitution for alternative products, raising the age one can take SS by one month every other year, and means testing it so that people with 10 million in assets don't receive it.

These are starting points, lets negotiate...

Seriously, STexan,

I want to negotiate a solution the the SS crisis with you. Then we can run for congress in our respective districts and actually govern....

Could we raise the Social Security taxation base (I believe we only tax the first 106k in income each year but I'm sure I'm off by a few thousand in one direction). Would you be willing to bump that up to 200k and review it every 5 years to ensure SS remains economically viable?

STexan- reasonable actions WERE taken in the 80s when Raygun jacked by the ss tax severely to fund it. But then Washington-mostly right wing nut repugs- spent it all on wars and give-aways to big business.You know, things like Medicare Part D "reform" and oil subsidies. We don't need to fix SS and medicare. We need to fix corporate welfare. How much money did bush give away to Halliburton?

alcin

I think under the present circumstances there should be NO income cutoff from paying into SS or medicare. The more you make you just keep on payng in at the percentage that has been established.

Republicans cut taxes and went to war twice screaming, "deficits don't matter".

They manufactured this crisis so that they had a legitimate reason to cut entitlements which is what they are trying to do with social security and medicare.

Ryan's plan leaves senior holding the bag and $6000 per year in extra costs.

bbbwi,

I'm actually in total agreement with you on that! I just think people of different political leanings need to admit that we won't get everything we want, but if we compromis with eachother we can save these programs...

alclin

What I would also do with no limits on paying into SS is make SS payments to elderly non-taxable income. And put a dollar limit of income on those who can receive SS. For instance no member of congress and any president with their retirement benefits can apply for or receive ANY SS benefits. Those with pensions that exceed the federal poverty limit would also not be eligible. Those with pension/IRA that exceed federal poverty limits would be inelgible until their IRA payments ended. Those with IRA's would have to, I think it is a law, take payments when they reach 70 and those payments would be on a acturial table.

I often wonder when the word 'compromise' came to mean weakness or surrender? When my perfect solution does not agree with your perfect solution, we have two choices: No solution at all, or we reach the best solution we can each agree on. Never let 'perfect' get in the way of the best attainable.

bbbwi and bruce,

Thank you. I'm sure if the 3 of us sat in a room long enough we could make a list of thousands of things on which we agree and disagree. The point is, listen to the other persons view point and communicate your own view point and then look for areas of agreement and work to compromise on the places you disagree. It isn't as difficult as congress is making it- you just have to admit that your way isn't the only way...

GOP wants to end medicare as we know it - and make medicare into a vulture (voucher) program - Mitt the Vulture is going to do it, if elected; but thanks goodness, Mitt the Zitt won't be elected.

How many of you remember when Social Security and Medicare were their own separate programs? They weren't part of the budget but set up as a "safety net" or "insurance" for when we got old and couldn't work so that there would be something available to us when we retired or reached the "magical" age. That's why we were "forced" to pay into it without an option to opt'd out. Just like the post office was(and still should be) it's own personal entity. When our "elected officials" saw the money sitting in the coffers they decided the only way to get this money is to create an amendment to the law which allowed it become part of the budget. This gave them the power to raid and pillage from these valuable programs at will without worrying about paying the money back to those programs. That's why they are in the condition they are in.

I would propose that the law be rescinded so that they can go back to being their own stand alone programs and make it a constitutional amend for them to remain by themselves. Increase the age limit by two-three years which should provide some relief to temporarily to provide time for them to be self-sustaining(with a little bit of government help). Then, when applicable reduce the age back one year. This, I believe would be a good starting point if not the best option for these programs.

Paw is just like the rest that have signed a letter of allegiance to Grover Norquist. That is their focus. Ryan's 'budget' is the only thing in their heads.

"We got a problem because we've got a president who's all foam and no beer," declared the former Minnesota governor and top GOP VP pick.'

And I suppose that the republicans have done real wonders the past 4 years stopping anything that came from democrates...I wonder just what the republicans have gotten done...as far as I can tell ..nothing. Unless you call pushing for more tax cuts for Romney and his friends is doing something constructive. Not one jobs bill has been passed or even brought up by a republican...unless it tied to cuts for the wealthy in one form or the other.

Common Sense 23...finally...someone has gotten it right...thanks.

A crowd of 300 in Raleigh, NC -- wow this sooooooooooo impressive. <sarcasm>

Mr Pawlenty of the Yawn isn't exactly a crowd draw.....

dow jones has surassed 13k. that's a lota beer.

Sure is. In mid 2008, my portfolio lost half of it's value than the year before. As of today, it's back to gaining ground and that's a hell of a lot better than where it was going.

tony

And you think Oblameya had annything to do with it? Remember Jake Carnie said the president has little or no effect on the price of gasoline. So Oblameya illegaly released oil from the strategic reserve and the gas prices dropped. Imagine what the price would be if Oblameya approved the oil pipeline from Canada. Now the hinese bought the company and all the oil from Canada will go to them. Nice goin Barry!

Imagine what the price would be if Oblameya approved the oil pipeline from Canada.

Umm, about the same. Oil goes on the world market and is driven by supply and demand. Even though the US consumption has fallen off, the price hasn't come down. That's because countries such as China and India with their emerging middle classes, are now consuming much more. So, no, domestic production does not necessarily mean lower prices. But you'll believe anything they tell you because it feeds the hate machine.

I see Tony 'hot dog' Beerm has changed his 'preference' from hot dogs to masochism.... how precious! Maybe analysis will help his confusion! lol

bbb, The Keystone Pipeline, if and when it is built, will be owned by a Canadian firm, shipping Canadian shale oil to the Texas gulf where it will be refined, loaded onto tankers and shipped off to the highest bidder(s) - likely India and China.

Now, exactly what effect will the Keystone Pipeline have on our domestic gasoline prices? Zero.

I see Tony 'hot dog' Beerm has changed his 'preference' from hot dogs to masochism.

aww.. I'm so sorry. Nothing for that bathroom inspiration now, huh?

I gotta admit, Tonyb's penchant for disturbingly sexual photos, disturbs me! Hope his analyst isn't the same one James Holmes is using....!

My oh My...

Hasn't T-Paw been a busy little beaver today? lol

And Willard's nothing but all hat & NO cattle!

Meanwhile, for now, all is quite in Camp Willard...

Pat, you are one of those liberals in denial.... they seem to have the market in mean spiritedness! You just need to watch some of Obama's tv ads to see the truth!

Actually left, I'm proud to be a Democrat. Proud to have David Axelrod and David Plouffe on our side. DailyKos, Think Progress, OFA, The Obama Diary, Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, VP Biden, Sen. Harry Reid, David Corn, MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell, Rachel Maddow, Chris Matthews to name but a few.

And of course, Barack and Michelle Obama, our President and First Lady.

You can have Limbaugh and Hannity and Beck and Adelson and the Koch Bros and Palin and Boehner and McConnell and Fox and of course Romney & Karl Rove.

Yup, very proud to be a Democrat. Now more so than ever.

Pat you just keep running with that marxist pride- we will fight for Constitutional governance and personal liberty.

Yup, very proud to be a Democrat. Now more so than ever.

I'm with you Pat, I have NEVER been prouder of being a loony leftist libtard than I am now!

Progress has never come easy... but eventually it happens whether the small minded bigots like it or not!

Also, gettin super excited about next week-end, only wish you were joining us... ☺

Pat you just keep running with that marxist pride

GO AWAY - you supposed Christian pastor! YOU are anything BUT Christian with all of your racial hate speech!

Crazy MO-FO!

Larry, I'm not quite sure what you mean by Marxist pride. My pride rests with America and our president and all those millions of Americans who are sickened like I am by what the GOP has become.

Feisty, you better be super excited!!!!!!!!!! You'll all be in my thoughts for sure. Just a wonderful wonderful group of people you're spending time with.

Hey Larry Robinson ..

Pat you just keep running with that marxist pride- we will fight for Constitutional governance and personal liberty.

Who are the "we?" Would love to know because if you mean it's you and your teabagger of a party, got news for you sunshine, your party is so fractured they may never recover. Jon Huntsman and John McCain are pretty tired of your "party" and in one case, refuses to attend the convention and in the other, publically admonished one of your "party" members. Why don't you spend a little time and effort getting your "party" to actually like each other???

And Pat and Feisty, me too as well. I love having my Democratic voting card even in this little Red State! We (the Democrats here) are actually a moving force voting for better judges, council members, etc., because we take the time to study and read the issues.

It might not be the big stuff, but every vote counts for every single election!

Layton

It's the 10's of millions of Americans who reject the past 100 years of socialist/totalitarian govt imposed upon us.

And I'm not a Republican. I left the Republican party over 40 years ago because they had become socialist light to the Stalinist Democrats.

I care about the Constitution and liberty, not totalitarian govt that enslaves everyone under it.

because we take the time to study and read the issues.

Bingo.

The people who vote Republican just nod their heads yes to every single made up story they're told, especially about the president. They are the true problem, especially the media people, who should know better, but don't. They are willing participants in this hell that is today's Republican Party.

I never thought I would see the day when an entire party wanted to return to the days of Jim Crow, but that's what is happening right before our very eyes. I can hardly believe it's happening again, but it is. Hardly anyone in the media (other than the progressive media) or in the GOP is saying ENOUGH.

They will try to steal this election. The GOP has no interest in democracy. They're only interested in an aristocratic rule. It's what Rove and Adelson and Romney and the Koch Bros. and Boehner and Cantor want. I have yet to hear any of them speak out against voter suppression. That's how desperate they are.

Larry, what Stalinist Democrats? Who are/were they? Stalin was a mass murderer.

Pat Boston MA.

I'm not sure there are any so-called Conservatives left that have enough intelligence to get their heads on straight and get with the program ofrebuilding the country the fake conservatives torn down.

Hey Larry ....

It's the 10's of millions of Americans who reject the past 100 years of socialist/totalitarian govt imposed upon us.

Maybe those 10's of millions of Americans can read better than you do and can think for themselves. As far as Stalinist Democrats? I don't know how you can even compare the Democratic Party of the United States of America to someone who obtained power by murder and fear and God knows how many other attrocities. Go take a walk ... open your eyes and enjoy your freedoms. This country fought for them and we have them.

People who seek to do nothing but inspire fear and hatred in their countrymen are NOT defenders of the Constitution. They are defenders of their own insecurities.

Layton & Pippo, I'm going to Russia in 3 weeks for 12 days. Upon my arrival in Moscow (my first city on the trip) I have the day to myself and so I have decided to take a boat cruise around the city of Moscow and then stop and visit this -

House on the Embankment

The Great Terror of 1937-38 took an enormous toll on the upper echelons of the Soviet hierarchy, and nowhere was that toll more apparent than at the House on the Embankment. It is estimated that one-third of the building's residents (about 700 individuals) were victims of Stalin's repressions. The Stalinist system of elite career advancement in that era has been described as a terrible escalator: rising stars rode it higher and higher until they reached the top, by which point it was too late to turn around; into the churning meat grinder they fell. Just as they had clawed their way to the top, so too were others now beginning that deadly ascent, perhaps unaware or perhaps in denial about the fate that awaited them. It is said that on most nights one could see the apartments of that night's unfortunate crop of arrestees lit up in the darkness, signaling to the city and the world that the time had come for the occupants to pay the fiddler's bill. For them it was the beginning of a journey that had one of two likely outcomes: a sentence to the GULAG with years of hunger, starvation, and exhaustion to follow. Or, perhaps the more merciful outcome: a charge of lead in the back of the head.

http://darknessatnoon.blogspot.com/2007/03/house-on-embankment.html

*****

Keep up the great work. Glad to have you join us here on First Read in this critical campaign.

Pat, enjoy your trip. I would so love to travel in the footsteps of history overseas. I have here in the US in the West, taking my copy of "Bury your Heart at Wounded Knee" and visiting all of the battle sites. I've not been fortunate enough to go back east and see more of the historical monuments. I will tell you that the trip I took to see all of the battle sites in the Dakotas pretty much broke my heart. I was actually told to get off of Reno's Hill when I'd climbed up there to see if I could see the camp. (Because it was on a reservation and I didn't have permission, just a boatload of curiosity!)

History is so much better understood when you actually visit the sites. Enjoy.

Layton, I was supposed to go to the Dakotas a year ago but my son got ill and we had to cancel. I so wanted to go but didn't want to go without him so I cancelled. I studied mightily for the trip and like you, much of the history broke my heart. I hope to get out there in the next few years. My interest developed over time from watching Ken Burns' National Parks series.

As you said, history is so much better understood when you actually visit the sites. The best parts of my trips to Eastern Europe have always been the conversations I have had with those who either lived through the history or their parents who did.

Russia is going to be a challenge for me I think, but I'm as prepared as is possible. I spent the entire year reading about every aspect of their history and hopefully will come in handy as I travel city to city.

It's the most interesting country in the world I believe. And the Russian people who have helped me plan it have been lovely. Very smart, very helpful, very sophisticated. And very much fans of our current president.

Much nicer than the GOP here in this country with the likes of Rove and Limbaugh and West and Bachmann and Palin and Walsh and the rest of the nut cases here who wake up each day trying to find a way to humiliate someone. Anyone.

Pat Boston MA.

Larry, what Stalinist Democrats? Who are/were they? Stalin was a mass murderer.

Let's start with over a million babies murdered every year.

Stalinism and the Democratic Party

Both support totalitarian govt where the power is centralized and places the welfare and ideology of the state above all else.

Both Stalinism and the Democrats rely upon modern forms of mass-media communications that to control such as newspapers, radio, cinema and even television in their largely successful attempts to control and manipulate the hearts and minds of the public.

Both have their roots in left-wing socialist ideology;

Both elevate the state and collectivism over individuality and the right of the individual to the pursuit of happiness.

Both support redistribution of wealth to punish success destroy the ability of the individual to maximize their personal and family legacies- both also seek to use the estate tax as part of this punishment and marxist redistribution

Both are anti-business, anti-corporations

Both are based upon rule by fear- (ie Democrats “Republicans want poor people to die, want dirty air and polluted water, etc.”)

All of these are from the Communist Manifesto and are core liberal Democrat policies and beliefs

A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. (eminent domain

Abolition of all rights of inheritance. (estate tax)

Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly. (Federal Reserve)

Centralization of the means of communication and transport in he hands of the state. (FCC & Dept Of Transportation)

Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. (AIG, GM, Dept of Agriculture, OSHA, EPA)

Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. (unionism

Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country. (urbanization)

Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc (John Dewey a communist and founder of American Public Schools -Dewey considered "the great task of the school" to be "to counteract and transform those domestic and neighborhood tendencies" which he specifically and accurately identified as "the influence of home and Church." In order for Dewey's "progressive" agenda to advance, the moral authority of "home and Church" would have to be undermined and replaced with the authority of the state.)

“The bourgeois family will vanish as a matter of course when its complement vanishes, and both will vanish with the vanishing of capital. (homosexual marriage, feminism)

“The whole people must take upon themselves the education of the whole people and be willing to bear the expenses of it. There should not be a district of one mile square, without a school in it, not founded by a charitable individual, but maintained at the public expense of the people themselves.” - President John Adams

the bourgeoisie describes a social class "characterized by their ownership of capital, and their related culture";

I am guessing you are referring to this, Larry. If it's a Republican world you seek, then you're correct, it is bourgeosie ....

No wonder you can relate to Mitt Romney. He is above and beyond the rest of us sorry souls that inhabit this very great United States of America.

well, just look at W Bush and his track record, it's tyranny by the rich, there was no democracy under W . It's only lies, lies, more lies, and horrible wars, and a horrible recession.

I guess for the rightwingers it's not class warfare if it's the rich screwing up the poor. But when the poor and the middle class are demanding accountability and justice, it's all of sudden class warfare.

What kind of logic is that????????????

Class warfare, a Rovian tactic: Accuse the other side of what your doing.

Cheers to my fellow lefties!

Pat Boston MA

Noticed you have a big following on this forum and are a BIG OBAMA SUPPORTER. It's hopeful that you continue to keep us informed after the November election. Keep these positive comments coming. You have my vote to replace Jay Carney.

Joseph E. Parent

Must you be constantly reminded tht it was your cherished republicans that took a surplus and put us so deep in debt we may never recover.

Obama has had hundreds of accomplishments...stop watching Fox and check the facts. We are suffering from 30 years of trickle down Republican Reaganism which has nearly destroyed the American middle class. Couple that with the rise of the insane religious right and racist, bigoted, mean spirited, selfish, greedy, super ignorant middle class American calling themselves (ugh!) conservatives and then voting for policies that hurt themselves and their families and their children and what do you have....a country with almost half the people who have no sense of decency, honesty or fair play and hate their fellow citizens and want to deny food to starving babies, the sick and the elderly....the only good Republicans are all dead now and only the wing nuts have survived! The Republican party IS the reincarnation of the Nazi party.....history will prove that!

And don't forget Palin making notes on her hand. LOL

Who's the one who goes kaflooey when he is asked a question he isn't prepared for, or from a media member he hasn't approved, or when he has to go off the cuff? Here's a hint, it's not the President.

Always wonder how she was such a nut case !

Bat Sh!t Crazy Michell Bachmann!!

Are you talking about Bat @!$%# Crazy - McCarthy Bachmann?

Wonder who has/had the bigger package .... Bachmann or McCarthy?????

Close if not a toss-up. Both share being calculating, lying, SOB's that do nothing but fabricate their own version of reality.

Want to what the people should be scared about; the "fact" that "she" holds the position she does in our government.

Feisty - I heard you are going to Las Vegas next week? I hope you have a nice vacation and if you gamble hope you are lucky and win some money. Just because we don't agree on politics we can agree that Las Vegas can be a lot of fun.

apmprescott

Romney would do well to select Pawlenty for VP; both are as out of touch with the nation and society in general as the other.

Plus Pawlenty is probably the only VP pick that could actually make Romney appear to have a personality.

On that point I find Romney beyond help. His ego is bigger than life and regardless of the cause the man will never change his condescending attitude toward people.

60's vet

your avatar is an insult to John Wayne who was proud to be a Conservative Republican. And you are an insult to those of us who are 60's Vets.

You out to change your avatar to Hugo Chavez or Fidel Castro- they have far more in common with your ideology

Larry Robinson ....

John Wayne who was proud to be a Conservative Republican

Your "Conservative Republican" party no longer exists. You've got your Michelle Bachmanns and your John McCains. Yes, I think the "Duke" could sit and have a conversation with John McCain. Bachmann or Palin? I think he'd walk right out of the room.

Layton

1. I'm not a Republican- I'm a Libertarian who left the Republican party over 40 years ago for being way too liberal

2. John Wayne was proud to be my kind of conservative who supported Barry Goldwater and was a member of the John Birch Society. I met Wayne through my father and he was far to the right of John McCain whom I consider to be a liberal.

Larry, just to clarify, you align yourself with the Sarah Palins and Michelle Bachmanns of this world and consider them to be the unifying element of ...... what?????

Layton

I'm not interested in unifying anyone other than those Americans who still believe in the Constitution, in limited govt, fiscal responsibility, low taxation, and promoting Judeo-Christian values

Samuel Adams stated: "The utopian schemes of leveling [redistribution of wealth], and a community of goods, are as visionary and impracticable as those that vest all property in the Crown. [These ideas] are arbitrary, despotic, and, in our government, unconstitutional."

“If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish and pay them out of their public treasury; they may take into their own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision of the poor; they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation down to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power of Congress… Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America.” – James Madison, Letter to Edmund Pendleton, January 21, 1792

We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. -John Adams, Address to the Military, October 11, 1798

“Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." -John Jay, Constitutional Framer and 1^st Chief Justice of the Supreme Court

"The fundamental basis of this nation's laws was given to Moses on the Mount. The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings we get from Exodus and Saint Matthew, from Isaiah and Saint Paul. I don't think we emphasize that enough these days. If we don't have a proper fundamental moral background, we will finally end up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the State!"--President Harry Truman February 15, 1950 Speech at the Department of Justice http://churchmousec.wordpress.com/2011/02/27/president-truman-on-the-importance-of-morality-and-education/

"America was born a Christian nation. America was born to exemplify that devotion to the elements of righteousness, which are derived from the revelations of Holy Scriptures. Part of the destiny of Americans lies in their daily perusal of this great book of revelations. That if they would see America free and pure they will make their own spirits free and pure by this baptism of the Holy Spirit." From his famous address: "The Bible and Progress," ~ President Woodrow Wilson, May 7. 1911, Denver, Colorado.

Larry Robinson-1323081

I'm not interested in unifying anyone other than those Americans who still believe in the Constitution, in limited govt, fiscal responsibility, low taxation, and promoting Judeo-Christian values

WOW! I only thought you were insane before your last 2 posts, but now I'm certain of it. I notice how you carefully selected quotes that advocate Christianity should be be forced down everyone's throat via government mandate. I also noticed that the most recent one you could come up with was Truman in 1950, over 60 years ago.

The fact is, we are now a diverse country in all regards... racially, ethnically and religiously. This is no longer the same country as the one you wish to live in the past with. Your quotes all come from white men, several of whom promoted slavery and did not even allow their own wives to vote.

Your right to your beliefs is still protected, as it should be. However, the belief that those who disagree with you are unworthy of being "American" is both appalling and outdated. We live in a global society now. This is the 21st Century and I welcome you to join the rest of us in it.

Thank you, OneOfTheSane .... for responding to that tirade ...

And again, Larry ....

People who seek to do nothing but inspire fear and hatred in their countrymen are NOT defenders of the Constitution. They are defenders of their own insecurities.

Stop thinking you are speaking for any segment of society. You are so full of hatred and fear that you alienate people rather than bring them together which is what our Constitution is all about. BRINGING A COUNTRY TOGETHER!

No need to thank me, Layton. I appreciate your posts as well. I am send a friendship request your way. Peace.

Very nice post OneOfTheSane.

I do believe sanity is returning to the United States of America. The GOP thought they could ride the hatred of the tea party all the way to the presidential election, but they were sorely mistaken. I can't tell you how many people I have spoken to this year who voted republican in the past and are now embarrassed they ever belonged to that party. They are actually planning on helping to GOTV for Obama in the Fall.

Pat, I hope so as well . . .

I do believe sanity is returning to the United States of America

I'm a "glass half full" kinda gal! And OneOfTheSane .. .thank you, again. Namaste

Here are a few that Larry missed...

I have examined all the known superstitions of the Word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the world ...

The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind ... to filch wealth and power to themselves. [They], in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.
Thomas Jefferson

Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.
Thomas Paine

Let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religions.
George Washington

There is nothing which can better deserve our patronage than the promotion of science and literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness.
George Washington, address to Congress, 8 January, 1790

"There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites."
~
James Madison:

"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man"- Thomas

Jefferson

"Lighthouses are more useful than churches."- Ben Franklin

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."- Ben Franklin

"In the affairs of the world, men are saved not by faith, but by the lack of it."- Ben Franklin

My personal favorite...

"This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in

it"- John Adams

I can provide hundreds more like this and so could anyone else were they to endeavor to do so. I focused solely on the Founding Fathers since I,for one,am quite tired of this utter crap from the religious Right and TeaBagger Nation and the rest that they intended for this nation to be a Christian or Judeo/Christian nation.

Also Larry I find it curious that one who constantly professes to be a Libertarian,as you do,always defends Bush and Reagan in this vine. Two presidents who grew government at a faster rate than the current administration has.

Personally I would say it's high time to flush you sir,but then you're so full of crap that you would just float back to the top of the bowel,annoying little nugget that you are.

Just for clarification I screwed up the first quote---it should be attributed to James Madison. Sorry about that.

workingpoor,

your views demonstrate why you are working poor. You evidently prefer being enslaved to the state rather than personal liberty and self initiative. And most likely you will always be poor even while you live off of the efforts of others.

Larry - You are mean, angry little boy scout, aren't you?

kimH

No, but I dislike the scourge of modern liberalism which is nothing more than an attempt to enslave everyone to the State.

I enlisted and fought to preserve liberty in my country and I don't back down to those who seek to destroy it.

LARRY, you misguided, twisted Facist. You fought for this country??? So how do you feel about weasles like Cheney, Bush and now Willard who all worked the system to avoid service outright in the case of Cheney and Romney and Bush, whose daddy got him into a "Champagne" Air National Guard unit, a haven for kids whose families had political pull???

You know, if you examine our current congress, you'll find far more Democrats who've served, many with great distinction then you will Republicans. Guess that doesn't fit into your narrative, huh???

Intrepid

Again- I'm not a Republican

However, Bush served as a fighter pilot with an honorable discharge- where is Obama's service?

Cheney has served our country honorably in the role of leadership against our enemies and I rate him as one of our finest VP's.

Romney did register for the draft but wasn't drafted.

Where did you serve? did you enlist? I enlisted under Johnson even though I disliked his liberalism

Democrats in Congress who served have turned their backs on the duty and loyalty they once claimed for our country when in the military.

wait, what happend to larry?

ok admitt it larry your nothing but a shill.

That's what I say ....

What happened to Larry ....

This one has gotten meaner also ....

Larry . . .

Democrats in Congress who served have turned their backs on the duty and loyalty they once claimed for our country when in the military.

Source please? Because if it's just coming from your own thoughts ... it's really not a truth to the rest of us. More Congressmen and Women are elected every year that have not served their country in the armed forces because we really don't have "wars" anymore. Is Afghanistan a "war?" We (the United States) were propelled into a "war" in Iraq looking for WMD ... they just weren't there but that "search" left a costly number on our books.

The Commander in Chief is the one that we elect that we feel can serve for us. He is the one this Country relies on to keep us safe and push that "red button" if needed. This Country relies on our President. I would prefer that a man that has the people of the United States of America's best interests at heart to continue to have that role rather than someone who thinks having money and making money and forgetting the middle class have access to that "button."

The Democratic party platform mirrors the Communist Manifesto.

In the past 40 years the Democrats have moved so far to the left that Harry Truman and JFK would be considered more like members of the Tea Party.

When you seek to make the US like a European socialist state, you are anti-American.

When you seek to enslave everyone to the state with Obamacare, and increasing control over our lives, you are anti-American.

Obama himself who was a marxist revolutionary until joining the US Senate has now evolved into more of a fascist than a marxist (while still embracing marxist redistribution of wealth).

Because of his totalitarian ideals that go even beyond the traitorous FDR, Obama is the most dangerous and worst president in our history. His re-election would doom the US to become just another failed 3rd world totalitarian country.

I'm no fan of Romney and had planned not to vote for him (I almost always vote 3rd party). But the outrageous Supreme Court decision on Obamacare forces me to vote for Romney in order to see Obamacare repealed.

Larry, glad to see you're voting for Romney, the guy who instituted RomneyCare here in MA; the same legislation that was used to inititate the federal legislation.

It's my understanding that our senior citizens are saving billions of dollars each year with Obama's legislation. Some things in life are important. And this fact is just that important. If your priority is to see these benefits lost to our senior citizens, then we don't want you in the Democratic Party.

Best of luck with your communist manifesto. Whatever the heck it is.

Larry Robinson-1323081

The Democratic party platform mirrors the Communist Manifesto.

In the past 40 years the Democrats have moved so far to the left that Harry Truman and JFK would be considered more like members of the Tea Party.

The truth is that the GOP has moved so far right that even you can be quoted as calling John McCain a Liberal. That is a stretch by even the most vivid imagination. Today's Dem party is actually more Centrist than Liberal, despite the lies told by Rush, Beck and FOX to the uninformed head nodders.

Larry Robinson-1323081

your views demonstrate why you are working poor. You evidently prefer being enslaved to the state rather than personal liberty and self initiative. And most likely you will always be poor even while you live off of the efforts of others.

Danger! Danger Larry Robinson! Alien Communist Intruders are are hiding under your bed!

Live off the efforts of others? You know absolutely nothing about me but feel compelled to make an asinine statement like that , quite frankly just pulling it out of your backside. If anyone here is enslaved to the state it would be right wingers like yourself marching in lockstep to the talking points of the right wing media arm of the Koch/GOP.

Thanks for the laughs though. Troll on Dude!!

Larry - If you actually served in anything but the Boy Scouts - you need to check yourself in to the closest VA hospital because you are one pretty crazy little guy. Perhaps your scarf is blocking blood to the brain. I think we put the Red Menace to bed awhile ago and if you want to look for enemy's of the State and dangers to freedom, look to people like yourself.

When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.
Sinclair Lewis

I think I've finally figured it out gang,Larry's new picture makes it all so clear.

Larry it's OK,just show us where your Scoutmaster touched you.

Today Tom with some sort of earth shattering revelation from Pawlenty that somehow Obama is the first to use such a device against the will of the people. I know it sound ridiculous...and it is.

He probably just wants to make sure Mitt gets all the attention while on his his foreign relations gaffes tour.

psp ... did you ever think the President might actually be doing his JOB??????

Where is Obama haven't read about him in 2 or 3 days?

As long as obama is quiet we can hope that he isn't doing too much damage! Sure wish he'd go on a vacation... even the expensive ones he and mooshell like so much. Can't be worse for us than when he pretends to be working, eh?

What the @#$% EvaPeron??? You took the name but not her qualities??

From Wikipedia ...

Eva Perón became powerful within the pro-Peronist trade unions, primarily for speaking on behalf of labor rights. She also ran the Ministries of Labor and Health, founded and ran the charitable Eva Perón Foundation, championed women's suffrage in Argentina, and founded and ran the nation's first large-scale female political party, the Female Peronist Party

Sounds like a liberal, Democrat to me ... lose the name EvaPeron or embrace what you have labeled yourself.

Layton, I believe 'Eva Peron' is mocking the woman who was partly responsible for turning Argentina, a one time economic powerhouse in South America, into a bankrupt socialist shell of what she once was, but will never be again.....!

Argentina is a great example of the failure of Socialism and the dangers of redistribution of wealth.

Thank you, left is fuzzy :) Have a great day.

1. and screwed up the economy

2. 8.2% unemployment, 20% unemployment minorities

3. 16 trillion in debt

4. " if i don't reduce the deficit by half, i will be a one term president"

5. yeah, he sure did a lot!

6. adios obamos!

the great pretender needs to get a brain

And here are his "Firsts"

Keep these figures in mind as we recount the number of firsts for this presidency:
• First President to refuse to show a valid birth certificate.
• First President to apply for college aid as a foreign student, then deny he was a foreigner.
• First President to have a social security number from a state he has never lived in.
• First President to preside over a cut to the credit rating of the United States.
• First President to violate the War Powers Act.
• First President to be held in contempt of court for illegally obstructing oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico.
• First President to defy a Federal Judges court order to cease implementing the Health Care Reform Law.
• First President to require all Americans to purchase a product from a third party.
• First President to spend a trillion dollars on shovel-ready jobs and later admit there was no such thing as shovel-ready jobs.
• First President to abrogate bankruptcy law to turn over control of companies to his union supporters.
• First President to by-pass Congress and implement the Dream Act through executive fiat.
• First President to order a secret amnesty program that stopped the deportation of illegal immigrants across the U.S., including those with criminal convictions.
• First President to demand a company hand-over $20 billion to one of his political appointees.
• First President to terminate America’s ability to put a man in space.
• First President to encourage racial discrimination and intimidation at polling places.
• First President to have a law signed by an auto-pen without being present.
• First President to arbitrarily declare an existing law unconstitutional and refuse to enforce it.
• First President to threaten insurance companies if they publicly speak-out on the reasons for their rate increases.
• First President to tell a major manufacturing company in which state they are allowed to locate a factory.
• First President to file lawsuits against the states he swore an oath to protect (AZ, WI, OH, IN)
• First President to withdraw an existing coal permit that had been properly issued years ago.
• First President to fire an inspector general of Ameri-corps for catching one of his friends in a corruption case.
• First President to appoint 45 Czars to replace elected officials in his office.
• First President to golf 73 separate times in his first two and a half years in office.
• First President to hide his medical, educational and travel records.
• First President to win a Nobel Peace Prize for doing NOTHING to earn it.
• First President to coddle American enemies while alienating Americas allies.
• First President to publicly bow to Americas enemies while refusing to salute the U.S. Flag.
• First President to go on multiple global apology tours.
• First President to go on 17 lavish vacations, including date nights and Wednesday evening White House parties for his friends, paid for by the taxpayer.
• First President to refuse to wear the U.S. Flag lapel pin.
• First President to have 22 personal servants (taxpayer funded) for his wife.
• First President to keep a dog trainer on retainer for $102,000.00 a year at taxpayer expense.
• First President to repeat what the Qur’an tells us, and openly admit the early morning call of the Azan (Islamic call to worship) is the most beautiful sound on earth.
In 32 months of Obama in the White House, we the people have accumulated national debt at a rate of more than 27 times as fast as during the rest of our nation’s entire history. This as the Obamas plan their next extravagant vacation to the Indonesian Island nation of Bali.
* sources: U.S. Energy Information Administration, Wall Street Journal, Bureau of Labor Statistics, US Dept of Labor, Standard & Poors/Case-Shiller, Federal Reserve, US Treasury, Heritage Foundation.

NB1234 - are you kidding me??? YOU are why this nation is so screwed up. Quit presenting your "fiction" as fact!

You're so far to the right that John McCain thinks you disgusting.

(And if you want to garbage/verbal fight with me, I'd love a source for EVERY SINGLE ONE of your totally obnoxious points.)

Back it up, or shut up.

I do not want one taxpayer dollar going to Gaza civilians, or Gaza. They continue shooting thousands of rockets into Israel's cities.

NB1234 - your know your post is total lies, right? Well, we know it too!

You're just another lying deceitful Republican who has nothing positive he can say about Romney so you post lies about the President.

What a pathetic person you are!

Obama/Biden 2012

I was a resident of Mounds View, MN during Pawlenty's reign

...and I'm sure the good residents of Mounds View, MN are very happy that you're now gone from there! Hope you didn't move to my town! Yikes!

He delayed repairs to the I-35 bridge, until it had to be replaced after it collapsed.

well done intrepid. i have met a number of guys like him. and larry. these types are nothing but chuckles.

again Intrepid -- did you ever enlist and serve?

Now the facts about John Wayne and the military unlike the fiction you wrote

John Wayne applied for acceptance at the Naval Academy. He attended USC after being declined. While playing football at USC he sustained an ankle injury that caused him to quit football and would have made him ineligible for the military (but he never used it as an excuse out of pride)

America's entry into World War II resulted in a deluge of support for the war effort from all sectors of society, and Hollywood was no exception. Wayne was exempted from service due to his age (34 at the time of Pearl Harbor) and family status, classified as 3-A (family deferment). He repeatedly wrote to John Ford, asking to be placed in Ford's military unit, but consistently postponed it until "after he finished one more film",^[27] Wayne did not attempt to prevent his reclassification as 1-A (draft eligible), but Republic Studios was emphatically resistant to losing him; Herbert J. Yates, President of Republic, threatened Wayne with a lawsuit if he walked away from his contract^[28] and Republic Pictures intervened in the Selective Service process, requesting Wayne's further deferment.^[29]

Wayne toured U.S. bases and hospitals in the South Pacific for three months in 1943 and 1944. He toured U.S. bases and hospitals as will as done some intelligence work for OSS commander William J. Donovan. Donovan thought Wayne's celebrity status might be a good cover for assessing of the poor relation between General MacArthur and the OSS Pacific Network. Donovan gave Wayne a plague and commendation for his short service with the OSS

By many accounts, Wayne's failure to serve in the military was the most painful experience of his life.^[31] His widow later suggested that his patriotism in later decades sprang from guilt, writing: "He would become a 'superpatriot' for the rest of his life trying to atone for staying home

You forgot a period after OSS Larry Robinson-1323081 ....

And it looks like you may be enjoying trying to belittle many on the vine now ....

What's happened to you .... ??

bigbenalaska

I've been attacked and called every name possible. It's time for war. I'm fighting to save my country from this attempt by the Democrats and Obama to enslave everyone to the state.

For the sake of my grandchildren, some of whom are nearing adulthood, I'm fighting to give them a future of liberty.

I learned in the military that war means taking the gloves off and fighting to win. One of my top American heroes is General George Patton Jr.

“There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time." General George Patton Jr.

Men, this stuff that some sources sling around about America wanting out of this war, not wanting to fight, is a crock of bull@!$%#. Americans love to fight, traditionally. All real Americans love the sting and clash of battle. You are here today for three reasons. First, because you are here to defend your homes and your loved ones. Second, you are here for your own self respect, because you would not want to be anywhere else. Third, you are here because you are real men and all real men like to fight. When you, here, everyone of you, were kids, you all admired the champion marble player, the fastest runner, the toughest boxer, the big league ball players, and the All-American football players. Americans love a winner. Americans will not tolerate a loser. Americans despise cowards. Americans play to win all of the time. I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost nor will ever lose a war; for the very idea of losing is hateful to an American.”

- General George Patton Jr

Now there's another thing I want you to remember. I don't want to get any messages saying that "we are holding our position." We're not holding anything. Let the Hun do that. We are advancing constantly and we're not interested in holding onto anything except the enemy. We're going to hold onto him by the nose and we're going to kick him in the ass. We're going to kick the hell out of him all the time and we're going to go through him like crap through a goose! General George Patton Jr.

Larry Robinson-1323081

I've been attacked and called every name possible. It's time for war. I'm fighting to save my country from this attempt by the Democrats and Obama to enslave everyone to the state.

The reason you have been attacked is because you have demonstrated every possible hypocrisy known to man. You claimed to run 12 churches and when I pressed you on it, you admitted they were only home teabagger meeting groups.

You always act like some "Holy Man" yet demonstrate nothing but hate for all that disagree with you. So... you want war? You got it.

If you consider yourself a "Christian" then you just keep on going and show everyone that Christianity is all about hate for all who disagree. Many of us already know that though.

larry is the most entertaining commentor i have ever read on these boards! kinda like the wanna be rotc guy in the movie animal house. gosh larry your good! bet ya got a lot of sticky paperback books.

Home churches are the largest and fastest growing segment of Christianity worldwide- our own churches total over 3000 members with the Philippine churches being the largest

by not spending on buildings we are able to devote the funds to helping the needy. We only need about 5% of our tithe receipts for overhead. And no pastor takes a salary

I don't hate anyone and never have in my entire life.

I do hate ideologies that destroy people and their freedom - and that is consistent with Jesus and all that He taught.

mother- any time you want to compare resumes- and references

The Barna Group, a Ventura, Calif.-based faith research and marketing group, estimated in 2006 that 9 percent of adults, roughly 20 million people, attended a house church during a typical week. A decade earlier, it had been 1 percent.

Barna found that 74 percent of American churchgoers attended conventional church while 5 percent attended only house church. But another 19 percent attended both.

Researcher George Barna predicted the house church and other variants will, over the next two decades, continue to draw followers away from conventional churches.

The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life's massive 2007 study on American religious life found that 7 percent of 225 million adult Americans attend church in someone's home. That translates to roughly 15.75 million adults.

Read more:Growing number of worshipers make themselves at home - The Denver Posthttp://www.denverpost.com/ci_15547588#ixzz21z3DzdJ9
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Barna Group survey

When a question asks whether the survey respondent has “attended a worship service in someone’s home, known as a house church,” the results generally find about 10% of the adult population claims to have done so in the past month. This pattern holds true regardless of whether or not the question includes a disclaimer that the gathering “is not associated with a local, congregational type of church.” The numbers change relatively little if the time frame is expanded to the past year, registering about 13% of all adults.

A different approach is to ask people how often, if ever, they attend a religious service – not a “worship service” – in someone’s home or even in some other place that is independent of a congregational-form church. This more inclusive question typically finds that 22% to 24% of all adults claim to have had such an experience during a given month.

http://www.barna.org/organic-church-articles/291-how-many-people-really-attend-a-house-church-barna-study-finds-it-depends-on-the-definition

larry - you seriously need to get some help. The claims in your post re-write history of the US and we frankly don't want that.

We have a good President who is being held back from being a great one by sick Republicans who don't care about the country - just their demented vision for all of us. We will not let you take this country backward 100 years to fit some delusional country we don't want.

Obama/Biden 2012

Exactly! Harry Reid is the best example of the kind of thing you decry here. Thanks for making the point.

Obama was gridlocked when he had dem majorities in both houses, he's a douche and even dems know it.

MOON: This is your "evidence"? Seriously??? The fact that you're not embarrassed to keep puking up this tired video over and over again does not say a whole lot for you.

Unlike you, I'm not impressed with flag waiving, American flag lapel pins and all the other Jingoistic crap that the Right is so clearly obsessed with. And if you're going to try to prove that Obama is un American then you're going to have to do a hell of a lot better. Seriously, this is nonsense what you've posted it. Why is it that the Right thinks they have a monopoly on patriotism?? You want me to list for you the names of Democrats who have served this nation with distinction and valor? You are simply clueless.

Senator Daniel Inouye Medal of Honor recipient

Senator Bob Kerrey, Nave SEAL, Medal of Honor recipient

Senator John Glenn, Marine Corp fighter pilot combat veteran of WWII & Korea, first American to orbit the earth.

Senator Jim Webb, Marine Rifle platoon leader & Company commander, awarded the Navy Cross, 2 Silver Stars, Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts

The late Jack Murtha 37 year career in the Marine Corp, Bronze Star, 2 Purple Hearts

Senator John Kerry, who you "patriotic" conservatives shameless smeared VOLUNTEERED for combat duty and was highly decorated.

And I've got lot's more after these.

Intrepid

Hate to break it to you but the right wing nut jobs only consider you patriotic if you wear a flag pin.

Forget service in the military, national guard or sevice as a policemen, firemen or for that matter ALL of us.

yes they are all patriots

except john kerry who shamelessly discarded all his undeserved medals

oblamo is not even close to patriotism

and he is a sorry excuse for a potus

pretender, and you are a shameless lock-step trooper elephant, and you are a sorry excuse for an American. Ignorant fox howler bigot.

Obama 2012