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Subscribe to RSSNew Obama TV ad tries to change the tone… It’s NBC/WSJ poll day! Full survey is released beginning at 6:30 pm ET… Focusing on foreign policy before Romney’s overseas trip and his VFW speech today at 2:00 pm ET… Romney’s foreign-policy challenge: To put more meat on the bone… Another challenge: Can he make the case his foreign policy would be different than Bush’s?... Obama pushes back against “you didn’t build that”… Romney yesterday criticized Obama on the economy… And profiling Chris Christie’s potential VP strengths and weaknesses.
Saul Loeb / AFP - Getty Images
President Barack Obama waves after speaking during a campaign event at the Fox Theatre in Oakland, California, on July 23, 2012.
*** Changing the tone: After the tragic shooting in Colorado and after last week’s back-and-forth -- over Bain Capital, Romney’s taxes, and Obama’s “You didn’t build that” remark -- we noted last Friday how small the presidential campaign had become. Well, apparently President Obama now agrees: He uses the word “small” to describe today’s politics in a brand-new 60-second TV ad. In the spot, the president looks to the camera and says, “Over the next four months, you have a choice to make. Not just between two political parties, or even two people. It’s a choice between two very different plans for our country.” Obama continues in it, “Gov. Romney’s plan would cut taxes for the folks at the very top, roll back regulations on big banks… But you know what? We tried that top-down approach. It’s what caused the mess in the first place.” He goes on, “I believe the only way to create an economy built to last is to strengthen the middle class, asking the wealthy to pay a little more … so that we can afford to invest in education, manufacturing, and home-grown American energy.” And Obama concludes, “Sometimes politics can seem very small. But the choice you face, it couldn’t be bigger.”
In the ad, President Barack Obama laments the negative tone of the campaign his side is at least 50 percent responsible for at this time. The Daily Rundown's Chuck Todd reports.
*** Why now? This is the kind of TV ad you’d expect to see at the end of a campaign or the beginning. So why now? One obvious explanation is that the race has become negative, and this ad is an effort to seize a higher ground and maybe repair the collateral damage from his own negative ads. Another explanation is that the TV ad market in battleground states has become SO saturated that this is an attempt -- by having the president speak directly to the camera in a 60-second spot -- to break through the clutter. In fact, as one of us watched the 7:00 pm ET hour of NBC last night in the DC area (battleground Virginia), we spotted two Obama ads, one Romney ad, one RNC ad, and one American Crossroads ad. Phew…
*** NBC/WSJ poll day! Has the negativity taken a toll on Obama and Romney? How do they match up on the issues? And who leads in the presidential horserace? Well, we have a brand-new NBC/WSJ poll we’re unveiling tonight that has answers to these questions. So be sure to tune into NBC “Nightly News,” or click on to NBCNews.com, beginning at 6:30 pm ET to see the results from our poll.
*** Focusing on foreign policy: With Mitt Romney today addressing the Veterans of Foreign Wars and tomorrow departing on his six-day overseas trip, the campaign focus turns to foreign policy. (And this focus might not happen again until the fall debates.) While President Obama remains vulnerable on the economy, foreign affairs/national security is another story. There's the end of the Iraq war, the scheduled end of combat operations in Afghanistan, the killing of bin Laden, and the destruction of much of al Qaeda. To be sure, there have been shortcomings and unfulfilled promises -- like Middle East peace negotiations, the conflict in Syria, and closing Gitmo. During his VFW speech in Reno, NV at 2:00 pm ET, per an aide, Romney will focus on those shortcomings, outlining “how the president has relinquished our leadership role in the world, and how we’re just now reaping the consequences.”
*** One challenge for Romney: putting more meat on the bone: Still, foreign policy is a big strength for Obama heading into the fall. Almost every poll shows that. And that's the context for Romney's overseas trip -- for this former one-term governor to demonstrate his foreign-policy chops and put more meat on the bone. So far, Romney’s foreign-policy statements have seemed more like a political strategy (to sound strong and to outflank Obama) rather a clear foreign-policy outlook. On Afghanistan, for example, he said at one GOP debate that “It’s time for us to bring our troops home as soon as we possibly can,” but at another debate vowed to defeat the Taliban there, which would only prolong the war. On Iran, Romney has said that he’ll prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon while Obama’s re-election would ensure that outcome. However, his recommendations for how to handle Iran -- crippling economic sanctions, standing by Israel -- are exactly the same policies the Obama administration has pursued. As a Romney foreign-policy adviser told the New York Times’ David Sanger back in May, “‘Romney doesn’t want to really engage these issues until he is in office’ and for now was ‘just happy to leave the impression that when Obama says he’ll stop an Iranian bomb he doesn’t mean it, and Mitt does.’” Again, it’s a political strategy, not a foreign-policy vision.
*** Another challenge: Can he make the case his policies would be different than Bush’s? Remember: A president can have a MUCH LARGER impact on foreign policy than on domestic affairs. Of course, back in 2008, then-candidate Obama faced his own foreign-policy challenges. Obama said he'd meet with unsavory world leaders without pre-negotiations. Also, critics -- both Republicans and Democrats -- called him naïve for saying he'd take action in Pakistan against al Qaeda if that country refused to move on actionable intelligence. (Then again, that's how the U.S. took out bin Laden.) And back in ’08, Obama was a one-term senator whose biggest foreign-policy credential was sitting on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. But Romney has an additional challenge as we noted yesterday: After campaigning with John Bolton, hobnobbing with Condi Rice, and raising money with Dick Cheney, can Romney make the case that his foreign policy would be different than the Bush years? Or does he even need to? Don’t forget: The Bush political baggage for the GOP has always been greater on the international front than on the domestic front.
*** Obama pushes back against “You didn’t build that”: NBC’s Kristen Welker and Ali Weinberg report that Obama, at a San Francisco fundraiser last night, pushed back against the GOP’s latest hit on Obama for saying, “If you own a business -- you didn’t build that.” Obama accused Romney of “knowingly twisting my words around to suggest that I don’t value small business,” adding: “When folks just like, omit entire sentences of what you said, they start kind of slicing and dicing… he may have gone a little over the edge there.” And the campaign has released a new video responding to this Romney/GOP charge. What’s more, the New Hampshire Union Leader yesterday reported that the star of Romney’s TV ad hitting Obama over “you didn’t build that” received “some government help for his business, albeit a long time ago.”
*** Romney again hits Obama on the economy: Meanwhile, Romney attended his own California fundraiser yesterday, where he resumed his attacks on the Obama’s economic politics, NBC’s Garrett Haake observed. Romney criticized what he said was the president's failure to "do what's necessary," to pull the United States out of a recession. "Instead, he pursued his liberal agenda," Romney told a crowd of some 400 donors. "He's a liberal through and through." Also yesterday, Romney gave an interview to CNBC’s Larry Kudlow. Here’s the lead from USA Today on that interview: “Mitt Romney said … he believes new gun legislation is unnecessary and defended an assault-weapons ban he signed into law as Massachusetts governor.” Said Romney: “With emotions so high right now, this is really not a time to be talking about the politics associated with what happened in Aurora. I still believe that the Second Amendment is the right course to preserve and defend and don't believe that new laws are going to make a difference in this type of tragedy."
*** On the trail: In addition to Romney’s VFW speech, President Obama raises money in Oregon and Washington state… And First Lady Michelle Obama campaigns in Ohio.
*** VEEPSTAKES: Chris Christie’s VP strengths… : He is the “bold” pick -- a firebrand, who doesn’t shirk from a fight. That demeanor fires up the base, which loves a fight and wants someone to take that fight to President Obama… Christie also is seen as a problem solver, someone willing to deliver tough medicine, especially to public workers, in order to balance a budget. That would appeal to those who believe the top issue facing the country is its debt and deficits… The bottom line is if you want a fighter, Christie’s your guy, but you’re guaranteed a fight – at the No. 2 position
*** … and weaknesses: Though Christie’s demeanor might fire up the base, it might not necessarily appeal to independents… Then there’s his weight: There would be legitimate health issues raised about his readiness to be president with the rigors that come with the job… The New York Times reported that Romney was irked that Christie lack of promptness… He could take some of the attention away from the principal and be a distraction… And he canceled largest infrastructure project in the country and then a congressional investigation found he “exaggerated when he declared that unforeseen costs to the state were forcing him to cancel” it, the New York Times reported.
Countdown to GOP convention: 34 days
Countdown to Dem convention: 41 days
Countdown to Election Day: 105 days
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Why the Middle Class is losing ground
Caterpillar - After giving its CEO a 60% pay increase it now wants to implement a six (6) year pay and pension freeze for most of their over 700 production workers in the US after reporting a record $4.9 billion profit in 2011 and an even better projection for this year.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/23/business/profitable-caterpillar-pushes-workers-for-steep-cuts.html?pagewanted=all
Who is in the mood for a double dose of irony this morning?
I know I am…
Does Team Willard have any one their staff that is capable of doing a tiny bit of research? Or do they think no one is paying any attention?
This one takes the gold medal in hypocrisy;
And, as it turns out, Jack Gilchrist is no different. The New
Hampshire Union Leader reports today that Gilchrist benefited from
millions of dollars of government loans and contracts to get his business on
its feet:
The moral of the story is, NO business does not miraculously flourish in its own!
It takes a village to make it successful whether you want to admit it to yourselves or NOT!
Do you suppose the Romney team knows why their leader will notnevernohow show more than 2 years of tax returns? (So far 2010, possibly incomplete - and potentially 2011.) Consider:
-Investors in the worst financial disaster of our lifetime were betting on housing foreclosures etc... while the rest of us burned.
-Investors finaigled fantastically low tax bills or even zero taxes, by exploiting loopholes and special deals.
-Some U.S. citizens who had non-disclosed foreign accounts were given an amnesty by the IRS to pay their back taxes without penalty in 2009, following account revelations by the Swiss government. Romney's 2010 tax return did not include the FBFA form that specifies offshore investments (Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts).
-Identifying Romney's bundlers "might actually reveal who has their hooks into him". (Richard Cohen)
Would Romney have shown us his 2006/7 tax returns, had he won the nomination in 2008? What was in the two decades of returns he showed Senator McCain? What deals/conceals did Mitt Romney make during such a time of extreme economic turmoil and specifically, the in-between year of 2009?
So often we hear that insanity is defined as, "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." So, what word defines our watching insane things happen again and again and doing nothing about it?
The most recent mass murder in Aurora is another in a series of insane events that seems to follow a script. A deranged killer(s) gets hold of a gun or many guns that accommodate oversize magazines, and packs a load of ammunition to his killing ground. He finds a venue with a large number of targets and begins the slaughter. The script allows for a minor variation of the killer's next step. He commits suicide or is taken into custody.
The script continues. Citizens bring flowers and stuffed animals to the scene of the carnage. A number of people turn on their crocodile tears and wail for the cameras. The media express their shock and dismay and flog the story for its entertainment value. An army of grief counselors are trotted out. The police hold a press conference and tell us of their stunningly well-executed plans and how they have heroically handled the situation. Two groups of citizens begin an argument. One group calls for serious gun control. The other group - the gunners - tells us this wouldn't have happened if only everyone had a gun. The lawmakers? Well, the gutless bastards make a cameo appearance. They wring their hands and commiserate.
That's it. The script ends. THE END. We send our kids to school, we go shopping, we eat at restaurants, we go to the movies, we elect gutless bastards. Then it happens all over again.
That's the blockbuster script. But every day, Americans are killing each other one at a time. Annie and Arnold....get your gun! Grab the weapon of choice for cowards and shoot that guy who pissed you off. That kind of murder? That's just run-of-the mill, garden-variety shoot 'em up's. That's not even news.
What's missing? Oh yeah!, the victims and the bereaved. Victims, youngsters just tasting life, the innocent, the unsuspecting - their lives snuffed. Parents, brothers, sisters, wives, husbands, friends, lovers....forgotten.
It's about guns, dammit. Stop with the crap about Second Amendment rights. Stop with the crap about refreshing the tree of liberty. Stop with the crap about defending against a corrupt government. Stop with the crap about hunting. Only a fool believes a .45 caliber handgun is a bulwark of freedom. Only a fool goes deer hunting with a snub-nosed .38. What practical value does an AR-15 with a drum-magazine have? These are designed for killing humans - no more, no less.
Do we have to ban them? No, but to let mindless idiots - I'm talking specifically about the NRA and their insufferable Executive Vice-President, Wayne LaPierre - refuse to acknowledge that we have a problem; THAT'S insanity. And what's the word for allowing insanity to rule our lives? STUPIDITY!
There is no reason to take guns out of the hands of responsible gun owners. There is every reason to take intransigent and ignorant gunners out of the search for a solution. When they open their collective mouth to tell us, "Guns don't kill people. People kill people," it's time to ignore them. It's time to stop being stupid.
Methinks thou dost protest too much...
It has now been eleven days since Obama made his speech in Roanoke, Virginia where he made the now infamous remark: "If you've got a business, you didn't build that"-- and still in a speech yesterday he felt the need to continue arguing that the statement was being taken out of context. It seems to me Mr. President, that eleven days has been plenty of time for the electorate to digest your original remark as well as the attempts by you and your supporters to walk it back. The fact that you feel it necessary to continue defending your statement speaks volumes as to how effective you believe that you have been in doing so.
Could some of the regular FR lefty liberals explain the math in their OWS Bozo’s 1% vs 99% claims??
National polls have Barry and Romney pretty close to each other in the mid-high 40’s percentage range. That means the evil 1% are getting about half of the 99% in support of the evil 1% candidate.
How can that be if you believe the 1%/99% nonsense??
It sure seems to me that the real split is the 53% that actually pay income taxes and the 47% that are freeloaders. Those paying the income taxes are likely supporting Romney, while the freeloaders are definitely supporting Barry.
So, regular FR lefty liberals, are you up to the challenge: Show me the 1% vs 99% math that supports your claims.
What amazes so many, is the fact that this foolish man, Willard Romney the talking buffoon, is the Republican choice for President of the United States.
OBAMA /BIDEN 2012---STILL CLEANING UP BUSH'S MESS
Feisty -- What we don't hear about our the thousands of small and large business owners that support the President. A co-founder at Costco is in an ad speaking to the fact that government support via infrastructure plays a big role in making Costco a success. The right wing ignores these business people because it doesn't fit their narrative.
This guy is smart. He understood what the President was saying in his "build" statement as do thousands and thousands of other business owners.
I'm just interested in the independants thoughts, there are dems and repubs, want to see where the rest are settling in on .......
Show me the 1% vs 99% math that supports your claims.
LOL! They can't. They just like pretending that they are the majority. In reality, only about 30% actually support their entire cynical ideology.
Well, Navy, I have to hand it to you- nothing seems to curtail your flagellating the deceased equine. Wearing yourself out, though, seems to have no impact at all on the electorate
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-07-23/poll-romney-obama-economy/56439758/1
Well, at least the deficit spending Obamais doing now is his own campaign money- not our tax dollars. Still, there's a common thread-
It's all wasted.
Mitt Romney, George Romney's son: "not only manufactured nothing but earned his wealth the new way — by financial manipulation, leveraging and such. On paper, it could look ugly...
For Mitt Romney, there are no assembly lines, no factories or mines — just back offices and computer terminals and such esoterica as the infinitesimal difference between what the Libor rate should be and what it is. He was loyal to no company, no industry — just to his investors. The making of such money is concealed, based on the exotic manipulation of numbers and the disregard of people. Only a relatively few know how to do this sort of thing, and they don't much like to talk about it. Romney, as we already know, is one of those people.
He hides his taxes... because it would reveal what he has always known about us: We're suckers." (Cohen, WP)
I feel that the Obama Administration has been too similar to the Bush Administration. Deficits, wars, expansion of entitlements that are unafordable. Maybe the expectations were to high, and mine were not that high as I don't go rhetoric, but he does seem unable to deal with outside events.
Also, this Administration has not had a good relationship with Congress (don't try and assign blame), even when Congress was overwhelmingly Democratic. After 2012 Congress will be similar to this one, or even more Republican.
So my question is, what will be different under President Obama in the next 4 years? If he is re-elected I just see more of the same.
If Romney is elected I don't know what to expect but there is hope something will be different, although I expect to be disappointed.
So, if a company is failing due to bad management for example, then there is no need to replace them? Bain never turned around one company in a positive way such that the workers retained their employment? You don't see what a ridiculous argument you are making? Did Obama keep the GM management team after the auto bailout?
Your problem is you don't like Bain's motivation, to make money for it's shareholders.
Feisty---they take a statement out of context, lie about it and then double down on the stupid with a failure to do the basic level of research. And we're supposed to entrust our government to these folks?
David Walker - IT'S NOT ABOUT GUNS. It's about people. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Do you think the Colorado shooting couldn't have been done in a different way, with ease and with possible more deaths? There are multiple ways to kill people without using guns. An incinderary bomb could have killed more people and it could have been transported in as easy as a gun.
You people that think removing guns from society are delusional. Guns will not be removed because they are too easy to conceal... and you can get ammo for them anywhere in the world over the internet.
Besides all this, there are many ways other than guns to kill people if you have a mindset to kill someone, or many people. Guns are not the problem, people are the problem.
If someone tries to take my guns from me, they will have a problem. I might end up dead, but sometimes it takes that to stand up to people like liberals to maintain the rights I inherited. If you liberals had your way, we would be under tyranny right now... we are heading there fast because of your efforts.
Alan - you're making too much sense.
The change in course for Obama is quite simply because he is taking a beating in the polls. His numbers are plummeting in part because now more Americans blame him for the economy then Bush. More Americans believe the Obama policies have made the economy worse. The Obama negative campaign isn't resonating, and the blame and endless parade of excuses is no longer believable.
The Obama stimulus failed. The Obama increase in government spending has made the economy worse, and upcoming numbers will be dire news for the nation on his policies. Now all Obama wants to do is raise taxes, which no economist thinks is a smart move. Obama simply has no clue, and there is no way the nation can afford to remain on its current path.
What's with this Romney guy? In the morning he says one thing and then in the afternoon he says the direct opposite. Is he really having trouble with what he said (or stood for) from one hour to the next? Is he just pandering to that moments crowd, I think so. He's so wishy washy I think he forgets what he said and to who. What a loser. And this guy wants to be President. I don't think so.
Oh, and let's see those tax returns. You can ignore us but, we're not going away.
OBAMA IN 2012.
Comparing Bain to GM is like comparing Romney to Obama.
(It would be a waste of my time if I have to explain it.)
What truly amazes me SF, is the "star" of the commercial received obscene amounts of that 'evil' gubment $$$!
The truth really is stranger than fiction... lol
When Romney says his tax matters & sources of wealth are his private business, he cannot be take seriously as a presidential candidate. Tax returns are just baby steps in a very serious process.
The NYT quoting a student: “It’s his business, but it’s also our business, too, because we’re going to be trusting him with everything we are as a people. It would be nice to know why isn’t all his money in the United States. Why aren’t all of his investments staying in the United States paying for jobs in the United States?”
Feisty -- LOL. Not surprising. Almost a million dollars of government money Romney was standing on. Wonder if he thanks government for all the help Bain and Company received at taxpayers expense?
Romney says the era of big government will be over.
Just not for the him or the rich.
***Correction on my first post. Should be are not our.
Dennis, Caterpillar's latest action points to a systemic problem within too many corporations. They no longer view employees who make their huge profits possible as an asset but instead a liability; a disposable commodity to be treated as a burden instead of valued as a member of the Team. Greed at the top, short-term profit goals instead of long-term vision is not smart business yet for 30 years that is the way too many businesses have behaved and it is that behavior that has caused the decline of wages and the decline in the economy. Workers are treated with disrespect instead of being valued. Give the CEO's huge pay increases while asking the employee who earns the profits to afford that CEO's huge salary to accept ZERO or minimal pay increases and, in some cases, to take pay cuts. Yet it is the average employee, the middle class worker that fuels the economy that makes firms like Caterpillar highly profitable. Greed at the top breeds stupidity at the top.
Feisty, pretty bad when Mitt Romney picks a guy to make a pitch and it turns out the guy claiming he and his fauther built it with their own two hands, had those hands out for "taxpayer" help via the Government. Once again, Romney's staff proves they never seek the whole story in their quest to make attack ads quickly.
David Walker, this quote fits. "What experience and history teach is this: that people and governments have never learned anything from history." George Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel.
True. Bain made money for it's investors. Also, Bain did not have to force it's employees and shareholders to buy the products of the companies it invested in.
7/19/12...REPUBLICONS BLOCK REMOVING TAX BREAKS FOR COMPANIES TAKING JOBS OVERSEAS. Well...there they go again. Yes republicons obstructed removing those tax breaks from companies like Romney and Bain create when they outsource jobs overseas. WHY DO REPUBLICONS HATE AMERICANS WHO WANT TO KEEP OUR JOBS IN AMERICA?
Romney and repubs are greedy, they want more jobs overseas to destroy the economy, just to make Obama a one term president.
Who has to pay for outsourcing tax breaks to Romney and Friends...YOU DO !
Vote Obama/Biden 2012...stop Romney from outsourcing our jobs!
Alan, NJ said: Your problem is you don't like Bain's motivation, to make money for it's shareholders.
Actually Alan I think it goes much deeper than that. The liberals are against any snippet of Romney's past in order to discredit him. Romney is an honorable man and his past is very clean. Look how they dug up something from his youth to try to show he was a bully... that dog didn't hunt. Now they are trying to say his tax returns will reveal something evil about him because he's not bowing to their witch hunt.
They are doing this to try to retain their miscreant of a president... one who is destroying our economy while blaming everyone under the sun but himself. Liberals make excuses for Obama... I actually believe they are brainwashed. What else could explain their inability to see reality unfolding before them?
Didn't the president use Caterpillar as a backdrop in his never ending campaign back in 2009. LMAO. You see Mr. President this is how to save jobs and increase profits for shareholders who are vastly middle class.
Everything Obama says sounds great. However believing what politicians say is a problem we have all suffered with
The simple fact of the matter is everything Obama just said could have been done the first two years in Office. Nothing changed.
Democrats and Republicans see politics as a game between the two of them and their field is Washington.
Until all of us band together and start holding all politicians feet to the fire on promises they make nothing will change. Many people were optimistic about Obama in the first year. To me he was just another politician that knew how to tell people what they wanted to hear to get elected.
Nothing will change if we continue to fight each other based on their lies and misleading campaigns.
As citizens none of us should be democrats or republicans. It's their job to convince us who to vote for.
Another False Equivalency Alert:
Last night on CNN (Corporate News Network), a reporter mentioned that Mitt Romney was taking Obama’s comment out of context about how business people didn’t build the roads and bridges they need to succeed. Instead of stating exactly what that context was, as you might think a journalist would, she quickly had to go into False Equivalency mode, and adderted that the Obama campaign takes things Romney says out of context, too. Oh, really? She didn’t give any example of the Obama campaign taking anything Romney has said out of context. This seems to be the obligatory refrain when a Republican is caught in a lie: “The Democrats do it, too.”
I’ve never seen the reverse situation where a journalist reports on a Democrat getting caught in a lie and that journalist asserting that “Republicans do it, too.” This is probably due in part to the fact that Democrats don’t engage in lying as part of their overarching political strategy like Republicans do. And it’s due in part that the “impartial” news media like CNN have to bend to the wishes of the Republicans in order to avoid being accused of liberal bias.
It's the ECONOMY GENIUS! Something Obama has proven he knows nothing about! Over 8% unemployment for 41 months pure genius! It takes our Harvad Grad Pres almost two weeks to tell us what he ment, Pure genius!
So Governor Romney wants to hawk his international knowledge to the WWII vets of the VFW - not to any international affairs organization of people currently involved in international dealings - but to the Greatest Generation of 60 years ago.
Romney has a fondness for the good ole days when the world was run (on both sides) by his kind of people, when the trains ran on time, and when immigrants had big hands.
NO...he cannot
geo -- The predictions and expectations on the numbers coming out this week are that GDP may have increased a paltry 1% and that the unemployment number will increase with no new "net" jobs created. Bad news for the economy and American. It's time to change executive leadership in the WH.
Has anyone noticed that NBC makes a point of reporting the gist of Obama's ads when they come out, but any time they mention anything Romney says, they made a dismissive comment about his comment.
Perhaps NBC should just admit that they are the media arm of the Democratic Party and stop pretending that they are 'impartial'.
Romnet caught saying the same thing repubs Rip Obama for saying. In a 2002 Olympics speech, Romney tells athletes they did not make it on their own! Romney describes how everyone around them lifted them on their shoulders to get those athletes there to the top.
Imagine that, they didn't build it themselves type of speech by Romney. It took infrastructure and people to lift them to the Olympics......Hypocrite extraordinaire. Romney and his "Gippper" speech to Olympians telling them in effect, they didn't build it!
Vote President Obama/Biden 2012
I'm throwing in the towell. I can't argue about this Presidental Election anymore. This campaign started when Obama was elected. I'm voting for Mitt in November. I commend you all for you ability to continue to argue each and every day, but the truth is, WE NEED REAL CHANGE IN NOVEMBER, and I did'nt like the way the first 4 years of Obama's change went. No Mas, No Obama, 2012.
In my #1.26, paragraph 2 should be "father" not fauther. Gremlins froze my comment in "posting mode"; had to exit and return only to find the comment had been posted.
Job 1
The fact that amazes me is you support Obama and call others foolish.
Houston - I listened to the rebuttal from Obama on his "you didn't build that" statement. Obama stretched as far as he could to try to explain it. He said that the quote was taken out of context. He said the full quote was "The government built roads and bridges and if you have a business you didn't build that." Obama said the word "that" referred to the roads and bridges... even though "that" is a singular reference word... the proper word would have been "them." It shows Obama isn't a master of the English language when off prompter. I guess Obama can apply any meaning he wants to his statement now that the cat is out of the bag.
What I really appreciate is the response from business owners and how Obama has totally lost credibility with them... guess they won't be voting for him in November either.
Feisty so how much do you make between welfare and being a full time Obama under the table "no pun intended.... well maybe" cash paid blogger?
Amen Brianb-999431 No matter how you read that whole crappy quote, it's still anti-buisness! Guvment is your savior.
Joe in Albany "Could some of the regular FR lefty liberals explain the math in their OWS Bozo’s 1% vs 99% claims??"
The '99%rs' claim to represent the 99% of Americans that are not 'rich', but the reality is that virtually none of the people support the violence, trashing of parks, defecating in public, rapes, murders, stealing and hooliganism that is associated with the so-called '99%' movement.
But I can see why the Democratic Party supports them - it ties in with the message that 'This is a War on Success', and it's 'Us against Them'.
I've never seen such a coordinated attack on the American free-enterprise system. Reelecting Obama will ensure 'another 4 years' of stagnation and joblessness.
I hope Romney picks that blubbering slob Christie for his VP. He's nothing but a crass pig and a bully who thinks his $hit doesn't stink like the rest of us.
Romney has made it clear that he will pick up where Bushwhacker left off. He has to finish the job of bushwhacking what's left of the middle class. Who in the hell would really want to go through that again? It didn't work. The Bush tax cuts have never worked, they have created a huge deficit the middle class is expected to make up for. Is that really what we want?
Tommy Lee, if you think you will get "real change" from Mitt Romney, good luck. Romney represents everything Bush did from fiscal policy to unnecessary wars, from more tax cuts for the rich and tax hikes for everyone else; his tax plan increases the debt by $6 trillion dollars. Go for it, vote for Romney, a guy who refuses to be open and honest with the American people; a guy who refuses to explain his policies because people won't vote for him if he does. Go for it, vote for Romney who has millions stashed in off-shore tax havens but do not be surprised if you end up disappointed when Romney off-shores America for a few dollars more.
The ignorance from the right wingers on the "build" statement is astounding.
Highly successful business people are stepping forward and telling the truth. They became successful with help from government and people.
That should shame all the liars out there but it won't. These shameless SOB's who spout cheap rhetoric while their hand is in government pockets will continue on because they think we're not smart enough to notice where their hands are. WRONG.
Backhouse
McCain says there is nothing in the 18 years his team saw that DQs Romney.
The only thing there is an opportunity for the left to creatively say things about what Romney has reported even though the money is invested by the trust without his direction.
As I have said previously. Because his money has been in a trust since 1997, if you see the two recent years, you've seen the rest from 1997 on.
Everyday, an Iraq/Afgan war vet commits suicide.........Some of you will vote for Romney who is hiring Ex Bush/Cheney advisers.........Why? Why take advice from people who gave advice to Bush Cheney? When do you make these people culpable for what they have done to America?
17 out of 24 Romney advisors were part of the Bush/Cheney regime. Why? Because making a profit from the middle class and poor is the number one priority. Greed and $$$$$$$$ the legacy of the failed Bush team, now the Romney team. Team destruction of America.
Vote Obama/Biden 2012
Backhouse "When Romney says his tax matters & sources of wealth are his private business, he cannot be take seriously as a presidential candidate."
Why all the fake interest in Romney's past tax returns? He's provided as many as almost all previous candidates for President. What did you hope to find - that he made a lot of money?
And where is the 'scrutiny' of Obama's past associations/business dealings with convicted criminals (Resco), anti-American pastor (Wright), terrorists (Ayres), voter registration crooks (ACORN), and his work as a lead attorney in suing banks to force them to make sub-prime loans to minorities, which was at the root of the financial meltdown (which he conveniently blamed on Bush).
@Houston and brianb
Even accepting the semantic arguments that businesses didn't build the infrastructure I don't understand the Warren/Obama argument to begin with. The infrastructure is common property. How did a business owner use the infrastructure in way that was not available to non-business owners? It's not as if there is business-owner only infrastructure. I don't understand is how this can be considered a differentiater between those who run businesses and those who don't. Infrastructure is an equal opportunity for those who want to use it.
It's an illogical argument to me.
@DCIA
Was this help limited in some way or was it available to all?
If you know anybody who has built their own business you would not try and make this argument. They make choices between work and family. Work and leisure. The majority of the time they choose work. Go read the biography of Dave Thomas, the guy who started Wendy's. Read up on any of the founders of small or large companies and see if you would invest the time they did into their business.
Obama 1 is now saying Obama 2 didn't say what your lying ears heard.
Sad news from my chemo group this morning. My chemo buddy passed last night - she was a retired high school history teacher, who also had been an elementary school princapal. A very right wing leaning lady, loved talking to her. She absolutely hated the way today's politics were heading. Complained a lot that no one studies history to learn from past mistakes.
I shall miss you, dear friend. May you be without pain and be at peace
Brianb lotsanumbers:
I can't imagine how you could have made it any more obvious that you didn't read my post. Until you read it, you will have no idea how totally ridiculous your response was.
The fact that as I write this, 12 people have agreed with you, says everything we need to know about the mindless right wing. You have provided a stunning demonstration that you and your ilk happily and willingly embrace ignorance.
People go back to Obama quotes in 2008, now look what he is saying now. His own words speak volumes. Do a little research
DCIA - again you prove your delusion. Obama said it... get over it. It totally expressed his anti-business stance. People have been believing he's anti business all along but he sealed the notion with that statement.
I love the way you liberals stand up for him in the face of his ineptitude. The more you do it, the more I believe you are actually totally and completely brainwashed. You do NOT see the economic conditions as being his... you refuse to see how he's tearing down and not building up... but I attribute that to your brain being in Obama's willful hands.
So far, Romney’s foreign-policy statements have seemed more like a political strategy (to sound strong and to outflank Obama) rather a clear foreign-policy outlook. On Afghanistan, for example, he said at one GOP debate that “It’s time for us to bring our troops home as soon as we possibly can,” but at another debate vowed to defeat the Taliban there, which would only prolong the war. On Iran, Romney has said that he’ll prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon while Obama’s re-election would ensure that outcome. However, his recommendations for how to handle Iran -- crippling economic sanctions, standing by Israel -- are exactly the same policies the Obama administration has pursued. As a Romney foreign-policy adviser told the New York Times’ David Sanger back in May, “‘Romney doesn’t want to really engage these issues until he is in office’ and for now was ‘just happy to leave the impression that when Obama says he’ll stop an Iranian bomb he doesn’t mean it, and Mitt does.’”
Another Romneycare Flip Flop in the first part, and a (poor choice of an) advisor assures us that Obama is always lying, and Romneycare is always telling the truth. Pure BS. Some of you RWNJs are eating that.
Brianb -- I'll believe a HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS OWNER like the co-founder of COSTCO before I believe you.
How is it he understands? Perhaps because HE IS A BUSINESS OWNER!!!!! DUH!
Brianb, things are not good economically speaking right now. Many many factors play into that. One of the biggest factors is the OBSTRUCTIONISTS in CONGRESS. That's reality.
As an independent, (both parties are a joke) Constitutionalist, (10th amend. kinda guy) social liberal, (I dont tell you what to do or not do, you do same for me) fiscal conservative (gotta pay for what ya get, stop the mad borrowing) American, I am voting for Obama. I believe what he has/is doing to this country will be the end of the federal govt., another 4 years outta pretty much be the death nails for federal govt. Then it will be up to We The People which way we wanna go, because right now, We The People are along on a mad, mad, mad forced joy ride with no way to get off. Let it ride folks, We are Americans, we will pick ourselves back up after the politician and special interest have destroyed the system they have perverted for so long now.
"DICK MORRIS NAILS IT!!!!!!!!"
Is Morris hanging with hookers again? I thought he was a foot fetish guy!!
BB
You know I like you and try not to fight with you too often. Please take some friendly advice - take a laxitive and get rid of all your hate of anything on the left. Not worth it. Tell someone today you love them. Hug someone. Life, no matter which side you vote for is too precious.
yes, this country is ill, ill and hardly at recovery because of the MASSIVE amount of funneling money from millions, into less than a handful of greedy, will move out of America and take the money with them, jerks who pray on working individuals paychecks. This country has a death sentence because of these practices.
Alan NJ -- Years ago I had a small business. I understand what it takes to grow a business to make it successful.
Oh my gawd, I can't stop laughing. The learned businesswoman Feisty Redhead is actually trying to tell us what it takes to build a successful business??!! What kind of business might that be...writing inane left wing discussion comments for a left wing media network? I wouldn't hold my breath waitng for that business's IPO. Oh, bwaahahaha!
David - the only ignorance I see is coming from the anti-gun lobby. It appears you support it... so be it. The argument that removing guns from this country will stop murders is totally and completely ridiculous. The only reason Obama made a big deal about Colorado is because he wants to get rid of guns too. How many other tragedies has he spoke on that didn't involve guns? not too many...
It's not the conservatives that want to do away with the rights in the 2nd Amendment... it's the liberal left... they want guns to be eliminated... you are on the left.. and you fall right in line with that mentality.. Liberals decide it's best to take the Constitution and tear it down... and you think conservatives should support your efforts... in your dreams.
So do you agree with me that infrastructure is not the differentiator?
DCIA - of course you believe it's all Congress's fault... Obama said it and it became part of your brain washed mantra. I am not surprised in the least.
Don't Carry It all
Why did you get out of the small business?
Can Romney change the topic from corporate raiding, secrecy about his tax returns, and his disastrous plans to make the rich richer and the poor poorer to foreign policy as his strength? No, he's just going to provide material for comedians.
If folks haven't seen the Slate video on Romney's abortion flip-flops, you have to see it. The timeline proves what a liar Romany is, and that he will say anything to get elected. While your on the Slate site, check out the article: How Romney and the GOP Declared War on Facts. The part about Mitch McConnell using former Republican President Nixon (WTF?) to argue why transparency of campaign donations is bad is priceless.
Interesting...the guy who took GOVERNMENT MONEY to start his business becomes the GOP TV ad spokesman for anti-Obama...
he claims he did it all himself.... and the ads keep running even after he was exposed for fibbing.
The Automobile industry, COSTCO, Farmers with subsidies, ....UNDERSTOOD the "that" in the President's reminder.
No man is an island...only the pompous egotists believe they are.
Note: The far majority of targets by people who want to kill are gun free zones. They are unlikely to be opposed with any weapons.
True Patriot
Polling says that the corporate raider theme is a fail and appears to be hurting Obama instead. Thats because the "corporate raider" theme is a verified lie! Lies won't work in the internet era.
@Dem4Freedom ~ As an independent voter, I voted for President Obama in the last election and will do so again. Yes, I am disappointed in the lack of progress during the past 3-1/2 years (in part due to congressional game-playing and total disdain for our President). I hoped for a viable Republican candidate and was following Jon Huntsman closely as he, IMO, was the most intelligent, well-spoken, experienced, and non-partisan in the field. Sadly, he was eliminated early in the campaign in favor of Governor Romney. After all I've heard and read, I simply cannot trust Mr. Romney to be the leader of our country.
That being said, I am relieved to see a few positive political ads from both sides. Hopefully this election cycle will soon evolve into civilized debate about issues and proposed solutions rather than mud-slinging, slander, and edited sound-bites ~ only then will voters be able to make an honest, well-informed decision on election day.
I'll just be gwaddamned! Talk about ignorant sons-a-bitches! I went back and carefully looked at all the businesses I own, or am a part of. If the Federal Government wasn't involved in, or had never been involved in infrastructure improvements I would have none. As an example: 2 of 'em are "Truck lines". No roads, bridges, ports? Guess I could run "Mule Trains". Used to buy and lease "Freight cars" to the Railroads. No Government subsidies to the railroads? I'd ah been screwed. They can't compete otherwise. Finance receivables for a steel distributor. Anyone have any idea how much government involvement (infrastructure, international guidance, and protection) connected to steel production and distribution? I don't care if you're the owner, flipping ham burgers, or distributing "Cloverine Salve", the Government, beginning at the Federal level, down to State, and local governments have a big "Positive" hand in your success. Failure? You screwed up. My Father was a successful Farmer, especially from the end of WW2 until He died in the mid 60's. Couldn't have been though, had It not been for the Federal Government, and I don't mean subsidies. What the hell is the matter with these "pompous Blowhards? "I made it myself, with the toil of my hands, and the sacrifice of my family". Yeah, and the help of the GOVERNMENT, aye gwad!
Alan NJ -- That depends on the business. You know that. Costco has warehouses all across this country. They rely heavily on infrastructure.
One multi million enterprise I did some database work for was a steel erector firm. They certainly relied on government in a multitude of ways.
For that matter the satellites in space that business counts on are fully or partially funded by government.
Phancy - You know I really care about you and your opinions. We've had some wonderful discussions... and I am fond of you. I believe you are a very special person.
My disdain for the liberal element is very deep because I see how they are trying to influence things based upon their emotional output. While I may hate liberalism, I don't have anything against any liberal in particular. Those that represent it simply don't know, or care to know what their actions are doing to harm our country. They have this "blame the right" attitude about everything. It's over the top. Does the left ever consider that conservative ideas may actually help to save the economy? If so, they never demonstrate it on these boards.... it's always someone on the right's fault to them.
I defend the right and that seems to produce a feeling from the left that I am angry... only because they judge everything by emotion. It's like telling a child not to eat a cookie before dinner... the judgement from the child is mom is angry when she's not. I see so much foolishness coming from the left that I become reactionary... Defending Obama by telling lies and stories about Romney is the ultimate in childishness.
I'll tell you what, if you were in my presence, I'd hug you for sure... but only because you are sweet enough in your ways to deserve it... and I really hope the treatment takes effect and you start feeling better... I know you are undergoing some very uncomfortable moments... and I really want you to get well soon!
It is absolutely a choice between two very different plans for America. It is a choice between socialism and poverty for all vs freedom and a return to the possibilities of the American Dream. Is this our country or is it to be handed to illegal immigrants and those who would see it destroyed from within? That is the choice America faces in November. All the rest is distraction, denial and good old fashioned Chicago style lie and buy politics. Remember in November. Anybody But Obama. ABO
SAN FRANCISCO - At an exclusive re-election fundraiser tonight, President Obama hobnobbed with 60 of his wealthiest supporters, including two figures at the center of the Solyndra loan controversy.
Steve Westly, a Silicon Valley venture capitalist, was one of the first to raise red flags about the administration's support for a $500 million loan to Solyndra, the solar energy start-up that later went bankrupt. He wrote directly to senior Obama adviser Valerie Jarrett in 2010 to raise concerns about the company's viability ahead of the president's high-profile visit that year.
Matt Rogers, a former senior adviser at the Department of Energy, played a key role in approving Solyndra's loan as part of the stimulus plan.
Both men were spotted by White House print pool reporter Darren Samuelsohn of Politico at the Piedmont, Calif., home of Quinn Delaney and Wayne Jordan, who were hosting the $35,800-a-head event.
Samuelsohn noted that Westly was seen near the pool "juggling lemons, entertaining kids at the party."
Republicans have seized on Obama's ties to Westly and Rogers - and the Solyndra loan - as part of their case that the president engages in "crony capitalism."
"The Obama Administration betrayed American taxpayers when it dumped hundreds of millions of public dollars into Solyndra while ignoring clear warnings about the company's dire financial situation," Romney campaign spokesman Ryan Williams said in a statement.
"President Obama's first term worked out well for his donors who got special access and taxpayer money for their failed ventures," Williams said. "It hasn't worked as well for the 23 million Americans struggling for work in the worst economic recovery our country has ever had."
Before receiving a fast-tracked loan from the Obama administration in 2010, Solyndra had been singled out by both Republicans and Democrats as a promising venture potentially worthy of government investment. The company first applied for a Department of Energy grant under the George W. Bush administration.
No, our problem is we don't like for a company's motivation to be making money for its stockholders at the expense of its workers and its customers.
Without the workers to make the product or service and without the customers to buy the product or service, there is no company and no money.
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL -- The Fox-Neil Covuto interview of the business owner in Romney's ad, Jack Gilchrist, is but one contradiction to the fake outrage over the president's speech taken out of context regarding who builds what and how. Romney knows what the president said, and Romney knows the truth in what the president said. Romney simply is a LIAR who will do and say anything to win. Here are two other examples:
And this from recent Romney stump speeches:
Have you noticed rightwingers/media are already backing off this nontroversy? But not those tax returns!
DB -- I ended the business for a few reasons. The first was as technology became more affordable businesses began doing that kind of work in-house. Although I could have worked for them in-house, I wasn't interested. My priorities were focused in another direction. That and the work was tedious.
It doesn't bother you Spider that Mitt Romney doesn't have any ideas of his own - that he has surrounded himself with left over Bushies and Bush policies that have destroyed jobs and our economy? It bothers me. A lot.
Obama/Biden 2012
I'll believe it when I see his tax returns. If he doesn't release them, then I have to assume he's hiding something.
Diane,
The first thing you need to realize is it isn't Bush policies. The direction America is heading started decades ago, and both parties sponsor it.
So far "Obama policies" are "Bush policies"
Phinephancy, I was sorry to hear about your friend. I hope things are going well for you. Take care
Once again, even the candidates complain about the negative/dirty campaigns. We hear mud slinging every day! Obama's a Muslim. Romney's a Mormon Bishop. In this game of political limbo, the inevitable quote is:
"How low can you go!"
"NBC/WSJ poll day! Has the negativity taken a toll on Obama and Romney? How do they match up on the issues? And who leads in the presidential horserace? Well, we have a brand-new NBC/WSJ poll we’re unveiling tonight that has answers to these questions."
So is it going to be a poll of 'Likely Voters', or one of 'Registered Voters' which overstates Obama by about 4%? If it's a poll of 'Registered Voters', you should deduct 4% from Obama's numbers to get the truth. Here's a link to explain why;
http://www.polimerican.com/adults-vs-registered-vs-likely-voters/
Sam - believe it all you want. Just because you believe in ghosts and fairy tales doesn't make them real life. I believe Romney is holding out on them to slap the face of the left with them later on. You are a glass is half empty kinda guy while I am a glass is half full person...
It's good to see rightwingers finally providing sources, but if you're going to just give us your cherry-picked spin, no thanks! Quote a fair representation of the article or poll. For example ContemptMe, here is more about The Hill poll:
If you read The Hill article, you see that people blame the president--and congress--for the slow recovery, not for causing the Great Recession in the first place, which is old news.
OR DB Akron, I couldn't find a poll to back up your claim, at least not with a quick Google -- I found this:
"Lies won't work in the internet era."
What about your business? Was infrastructure a differentiator in your success or failure? May I ask how many employees you had?
As to your Costco example. Infrastructure is a differentiator as to location. Another example would be the success of Holiday Inn who were very good at picking locations for their hotels. However, that was their decision or their core competency. It was not a function of the government. The argument is still illogical because the government should be creating a level playing field, not picking which business is successful.
As to your satellite example. That is where the government is paying for a service. At the point it is a customer and any businesses success is based on supplying customer needs.
Dennis, Columbus, Ohio
Ah, the class envy BS... Dennis, you don't mention how much (if any) of the record $4.9 Billion Caterpillar profits were made here (where taxes and regulation are crushing) or abroad (where they're much lower, and where developing countries desperately need heavy equipment) now do you? More Obama "we have the right to steal what we didn't earn" marxism... keep drinking the koolaid...
Politics is a pendulum, taxes go low and then high. Bush tax cut for the rich makes tax lower.
Romney would make it even lower to benefit himself and his fellow vultures.
but the pendulum points higher taxes for 200,000 and avove crowd - more reasonable tax rate.
Obama/Biden 2012
Bobby Jones Bia -- The good ole GOPee Wee Herman 'I know you are, but what am I?" again. The first thing you need to realize is the economic meltdown and slow recovery IS due to GOP/Bush-era policies. We still have war, we still have the huge debt/deficit from unpaid wars, we still have deregulation, and we still have tax cuts for the rich. If the Teapublicans would stop obstructing (most recently the Bring Jobs Home Act), the recovery would be much faster.
As for the direction America is heading, it started to go downhill during Reagan and supply-side voodoo economics, and thanks to some Democratic administration or control during the last 30 or so years, things aren't worse.
Fed Up-2683606 -- The envy thing is so childish.
The rich need to pay more because; 1) government programs are very important for society, 2) more equality makes a better society and democracy, and 3) corruption is reduced when loopholes are reduced.
Speaking of which, $700 billion dollars of lost revenue due to money in the Cayman Islands is on par with the stimulus.
BJB - I "realize" the "direction...started decades ago" was handed to us by Republicans. They think we will be hoodwinked into voting for Mitt Romney so they can continue their "trickle-down" economic plans.
The Democratic Party has historically been the party that understands what it means to be the "underdog". It fights for us - it doesn't fight against us.
"Politics is about the improvement of people's lives. It's about advancing the cause of peace and justice in our country and in our world. Politics is about doing well for people" Paul Wellstone
That is clearly not the mantra of the Republican Party.
you know why I hate first thought articles? It brings out the complete bull-headed name-calling one siders from both sides that are equally aggravating
"You didn't build that..."
Mr. President you seem to be mandating that business pay for the things that came before them in addition to providing for the tax base of the future. That means we have to right a check to the caveman who invented the wheel right?
Option 1 - A business is born at a point in time where all the infrastructure at that point already exists and is paid for. The business goes on to add value or growth if you will, hiring employees who pay taxes, paying corporate taxes themselves, driving growth external to the business that also drives revenue and so on. Any infrastructure created after the business is born will be paid for by the tax revenues generated. Pretty basic stuff.
Option 2 - The business is never born. All the infrastructure that existed before still does but has less tax revenue to maintain it.
Democrats are not so stupid that they do not understand this distinction are they? Well of course they are. This is how they vilify business, the jobs creators in lieu of the government.
You have a choice this November, Obama the Socialist (Communist?) or Romney the Capitalist.
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." - Thomas Jefferson
Hey Diane, how is that War on Poverty working out for Democrats? Instead of helping the poor we have institutionalized a couple of welfare generations.
Shameful.
Hey Sherlock, if the GOP/TP had not blocked passage of the Jobs Act, and had not forced the firing of so many public employees like teachers and cops, the unemployment rate would be below 7% right now. And the additional number of workers would be creating demand that in turn would create more jobs. Genius indeed, throwing America under the buss for politics.
Rational AmeriCAN -- Spend less time trolling and more time educating yourself. What part of the Social Contract don't you people get? The president is absolutely correct that we've tried a top-down approach and it doesn't work. Restoring the middle class and upward mobility will help everyone including businesses and the rich.
Throw the obstructionist Do Nothing Teapublicans out -- Obama/Biden - 2012!
To all those on this bog; I like to know what makes Obama a expert on the economy and business? You all knock and insult Mitts qualifications now you tell me what is Obama's qualification?. Obama never created a job or ran a business,run a state and you ignorant Liberal people say Obama knows best? Ha! that's a laugh just look at what he did in the 3 1/2 YEARS running this country he made it worse. If Obama cared so much about the middle class and jobs he would of put those priorities first instead of Obamatax.
Hey True Patriot, please stop trotting out the GOP blocked this mantra or Roy will trot out the dozens of bills Harry Reid blocked. It just gets old and makes you look like a small man with small politics.
I love how you give Barry the pass on his inability to grow any private sector jobs. And you know why? Because the government cannot do that. He clearly has no idea how to spur that growth engine.
Romney 2012.
Isn't it amazing how some bad-mouth and criticize wealthy people like Romney--then they head off to Wal-Mart and load up on "Made in China" products.
As usual the Rule of Reason is lost among the rightwing. The reason for some amount of corporate taxes is to contribute to the infrastructure, educated workforce, research that creates things like the Internet, safety from law enforcement and military, etc., etc. that allow businesses to prosper.
Just as stated above about the stupidity of the "envy" claim -- Revenue is needed for these things provided by the government that are very important to our society, to our democracy, and to our future as a country.
Here's a simple question that maybe even you can understand. If you try to start a business in North Korea, how would that work out for you? It used to be considered patriotic to pay taxes. Gawd, this country is being ruined by the radical Right!
Stan-3196017 -- I'm with you on that one, and why I don't shop at Walmart. Teabaggers do, because they have an ideology of "I've got mine, screw you" -- It's every man, woman, and child for his/herself." The Race to the Bottom mentality is disastrous if not un-American.
Where would the money come from? Why would the Jobs Act be more successful than ARRA? Can I ask how the strategy of expanded public employment is different from Greece where the government attempted to lower unemployment by expanding the government? Also, given the finances of the states how could they maintain their employment rates at the current level of salaries and benefits?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/18/us/in-report-on-states-finances-a-grim-long-term-forecast.html
True, Diane,
You both need to look int the repeal of Glass-Steagal act. Which prevented the type of melt down we have seen in the last decade.
Clinton was a very active Presidents when it came to using the veto. However for some reason the Graham Leech bill was not one of them.
Democrats don't care about "underdogs" they care about votes. Clinton was in his second term and threw his campaign donors a bone by allowing this bill to proceed.
TruePatriot, So you define obstructionist as somebody that won't vote for what you want? How about the Senate not voting on anything the House has passed?
Oh wait you are a hypocrite so facts like that don't matter to you.
And for those of you that can't trust Mit because he hasn't released his tax returns, yet can completely trust PBO and he won't turn over anything from Fast and Furious yet has denied any involvement for months.
Oh wait you are again are a hypocrite.
And for the rest of you, you do know we had schools and roads before our great government thought they could build them, add a gas tax and then whine they don't have enough money to actually keep them maintained and know more for them.
Find me one accredited economist who agrees with Obama's ad. Lets see some facts as to the truth of his statements. Do we want a POTUS who lies in order to get elected. Remember his lies to seniors on SS and Medicare. Romney would cost them $6,400 more. Totally false. There is no excuse for it. The man has no morality.
Stan- Good point!. If the American voters agree with Obama's lies and falsely accusing Mitt of outsourcing then to all you voters stop buying products that are made from CHINA, otherwise you all are hypocrites and playing this double standard card.
@Fed Up-2683606#1.93: "We have the right to steal what we didn't earn" marxism... ???????????? Don't know much about Karl Marx do you? If you told "Willard Romney" or any "tea party" republican they were not allowed to steal that which they did not earn, they would likely have you caned or worse. I don't think you know your ass from a knot hole in an "outhouse plank".
Coming soon to a TV channel near you..........a gentler, kinder type of mudslinging. And so starts the great presidential race of 2012
Another attempt by the President to change the subject to ANYTHING except his dismal record. He is right about one thing, this election is a choice between 2 world views. A progressive, socialist, anti freedom government that acts on the assumption that it knows better how to run your life than you do and has driven our country to the edge of bankruptcy
OR
a fiscally conservative government that believes the best way to grow a healthy economy is for government to get out of the way with its excessive taxation and regulation. In other words FREEDOM.
Brianb....do you even realize that everything you say about the 'liberal left' can also be used to describe the 'conservative right'? Both parties think they know what is best for the country. Both parties have had their shot at making the economy better. Both parties seem to be working in a vacuum. This is not an isolationist movement. I would have a lot more respect for you if you could at least admit that both parties are to blame for the mess we are in. Instead, you radically support the side of your choosing and think that the 'poor brainwashed' people on the left just don't get it. I think that both parties have both good and bad ideas, but it is this devisiveness that is killing the country as a whole. A house divided against itself cannot stand. So, get off your high-horse thinking that you know exactly what is best for me and my family, as well as the rest of the country!
Joe in Albany
I am not a regular, but I will give it a try.
First, you might really read the first post by "Dennis, Columbus, Ohio", actually think about the implications, and realize that it is only one example out of many.
Think about the jobs going out of this country because these big corporations can get loop holes and tax rewards doing it and they don't even want to pay the minimum wage. In one of the companies Bain closed, before doing that they cut the wages from 10.33/hr. to the minimum wage and it probably would have been lower if there had not been a minimum wage established by law. I would like to see them leave everything they have behind (cars for transportation, no taping bank accounts, everything) and try to live for one or two months on the minimum wage.
Look at what the current Bain Capital is doing to a company in Illinois and the people who have worked there for 40 some years who are now having to train Chinese people who will be doing their jobs in China. Think about working for a company that long, you can't retire yet, if Bain is true to form their pensions will be sucked out, and you are going to try to retrain for a different job in your late 50's early 60's.
You might find this illuminating (published in Oct. 2011)
The big corporations and their owners can pay big bucks for lobbyists to get just the right loophole they need. Who do we have to speak up for the rest of us. Bain Capitol had a lobyist that helped them & Mr. Romney a whole lot with a lot of tax breaks & loop holes. All of those billionaires who have contribute to his campain want something and none of those "somthings" will be anything to help the middle class. It most definitely is not going to be Mr. Romney who will be standing up for us.
No, I am not talking about myself here. My husband and I got college degrees and were fortunate to have jobs better than minimum wage. Only one income while raising a family. Never took expensive vactions. I have never been out of the U.S. My only trip to Hawaii was when my parents went there for their 50th wedding anniversary (their only trip there) and my father died there. Our home is paid for, our car is paid for, and we don't carry credit card debt.
Mr. Romney thinks he is going to help the middle class by giving them better tax breaks on capital gains, like he gets, while cutting their income to help his rich friends. We didn't have capital gains on our income tax forms (some capital gains probably in a retirement account so not taxable - you could just say you wanted this percentage in investments, and another percentage for interest income), and things are even worse for most families now. He doesn't even have any concept of what "middle class" is!
Alan, NJ
Don't hold your breath! At least 17 of his 20 or 21 advisors that he has taken on were also on G.W. Bush's team. From some of the things I have heard, it looks to me like G.W. Bush on steroids.
nwnative
I don't think Mr. Romney is going to pick Christy. He still thinks Mr. Romney should show his tax returns.
I did think it was very interesting when Mr. Romney, asked about revealing 12 years of tax returns like his father did in one of the Republican debates, said "we'll see what documentation we have". And then Mrs. Romney said, when pressed on the taxes on GMA, "you people have all you need to know".
TruePatriot - Why don't you do some research as to how much in taxes corporations pay. Instead you choose to say corporations are getting a free ride... There is the CBO website you can go and look at to see how much revenue in taxes are paid in. Actually your argument is very weak.
If democrats are so hellbent on removing the Bush tax cuts, then why did Obama decide to extend them? I know your response will be because republicans forced him to do it... since when have republicans forced Obama to do anything?
What is truly needed is for government to take control of their spending. Nobody in Washington seems to grasp that spending is out of control and limits need to be set on some fiscal restraint. I am not talking about elimination of important social programs, but there is a lot of waste in Washington that can be better managed. Who is going to take control of it? It seems nobody is capable of it... neither republicans or democrats....
@ RationalAmeriCAN#1.98: "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." Thomas Jefferson 1788. While discussing the "industrial revolution" with a student, Jefferson made the statement within the context of "more things, more people, more inter-relation of more and more people, and more infrastructure requirements for their success. This student, likely a Totalitarian, soaked the statement in typical bullsh^t and plied it as a Jefferson fear of large government, as youi are now doing. Take a meaning out of context, pervert it, and you have nothing but a gwaddamn lie. I see it all the time on this vine. People love to back up their lies with historical bullsh^t. Jefferson was being positive about the role of government in our lives here.
Wouldn't it be great if politicians put as much effort into their jobs..."AFTER"... they are elected into office, as they do ..."BEFORE"... they are elected...???
I wonder when there will be a politician that will actually do what it is they say they can and will do...!
I bet I'll see a million dollars fall out of my ass before that happens though...!
Alan -- That's bull puckey. Do you not read enough to glean that info? LOL
@Gil-2872519 #1.108:Start by reading "Nobel prize winning economist" "Paul Krugman's" latest book, "End this depression now". Might learn something.
This is his new tone? haha. I dont know what makes me sicker, O'bama's class warfare, or Romney's move to out pander O'bama on illegal immigration. Both of these guys make me sick
Why are there so many collapsed comments?
People's love for free speech! I think MSN needs more "goatman" stories
kornfed, I agree with you, neither of these two are worth crap and neither of these two are going to be able to fix anything.
Neither Party is serious about fixing spending, and neither party is serious about actually raising taxes, opps I mean Revenue. (which I agree shouldn't happen)
Only an idiot would believe that taxing the people that make over 250k more is going to do a damn thing about our deficit problem.
We need to slowly cut the the size of the Government over a extended time period, and if people want to raise taxes, they need to do it on everybody and again very slowly over a extended time period.
Just imagine what will happen to our economy if the SS tax is raised back to 6.2% next year, it will collapse because most people don't have 2% of their check left at the end of the week, month or year.
Hey birdwatcher, "He doesn't even have any concept of what "middle class" is!"
Can you help explain to us in the middle class how we have gotten better in the last 3 years?
Obama is right. The plan the Repubs want, is the same plan we have had the last 40 years. Its no wonder the wealthy want it to continue, they have done great. Its the rest of the people who didnt do so well. All the economic decline for the last 40 years, will continue under Romney. Its just more of the same failure.
Obama 2012.
Vote for the candidate who supports the middle class and Americans. Not the panderers of the rich, and foreign-interests..
Can somebody tell me what Obama's "in Context" statement was with regard to nobody built a small business? I hear a lot on both sides, but would like to see what he exactly said.
Brianb-999431
DCIA - again you prove your delusion. Obama said it... get over it. It totally expressed his anti-business stance. People have been believing he's anti business all along but he sealed the notion with that statement.
I love the way you liberals stand up for him in the face of his ineptitude. The more you do it, the more I believe you are actually totally and completely brainwashed. You do NOT see the economic conditions as being his... you refuse to see how he's tearing down and not building up... but I attribute that to your brain being in Obama's willful hands.
_______________________________________________________________
That is not where I would say their brains are but I am a Grandmother and was taught not to speak about such things!!!!!
Paraphrasing, he said something to the effect of nobody built a business on their own. They had help from others to get there. I see his point...I just dont agree with where he is trying to go with it. Both sides play this silly little game on a daily bases because the sheep just love to eat them oats.
Many leftylibdem comments are pure horsepukey, such as the Catepillar distortion - a typical cherry-picked, myopic point of view full of anti-corporate hate and ignorance. The Catepillar story is much more detailed and historic than that dimwits cheap attempt at cheerleading the lemmings.
The bottom-line is: YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT. What an insult to small business owners, artists, musicians, patent holders - anybody that has individually accomplished anything. And what arrogance - only a faux intellectual liberal would have the limited vision and pompous ego to say in public - "...people who think they're so smart". BO is projecting! BO THINKS he is smarter than everybody else - he's a Haarrrvarrd man, doncha know. Yeah, he got lots of help to catapult him way over his head...some of it illegal, some of it unethical, some of it pure Chicago corruption. Pundits will be talking about that open window into BO's socialist soul in November as the beginning of the end for the Amateur. Note how BO disingenuously attempts to claim it's taken out of context BUT the context is worse for him. Put the pressure on the Deceptor-In-Chief, squeeze the little pencil-necked worm, and watch his true colors come forth, listen to his false narrative of US history, and his community-organizing, socialist manifesto will crystalize like the cocaine he used to snort.
Remember: YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT!!
here it is in its entirety cdal....
Freedom, ". The plan the Repubs want, is the same plan we have had the last 40 years"
Wait that isn't PBO's plan? I am pretty sure it is to continue to pour money down the rat hole and magically things will get better?
We have spent trillions on the poor, and after spending trillions we have the same amount prior to the trillions or even more.
We spend more on education in this country than any other and get worse results and the Dems idea is just to spend more.
I think those are the policies from the last 40 years that have failed.
The Government controlling everything gives us the super rich and the poor. So Dems if that is what you like, by all means keep voting for it. Up until the 2010 elections that is the exact things the Repubs were voting for also. That is how we got no child left behind and Med d.
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
Ahhhh Feisty Bobblehead, such prose, such benevolence from the Land of Libbies. Your bias extends 13 years to find some dirt on a political ad. Perhaps we should expose the truth about the New Hampshire Business Finance Authority, shall we?
I called Mr. Jack Donovan at the NHBFA. They do NOT get any government, State or Federal, money. Their money comes completely from private investors, similar to how a venture capital or equity capital firm would work. The NHBFA simply helps find capital for businesses, if they qualify under IRS rules, at better interest rates and terms. Regardless of what you want to call it Mr. Gilchrist still had to back any money he received with his OWN collateral. Thus his business was benefitted from the private sector via the NHFBA orchestrating better loans for his purchase of equipment and inventory.
You should be proud that other investors, similar to what Mitt Romney did at Bain, helped Mr. Gilchrist successfully build his company that created more jobs.
As far as the quote from Mr. Gilchrist you provided, he’s right. He’s an American company that can manufacture whatever the Navy or Coast Guard required. The money he received is NOT the military’s money, it’s OUR money. It should come back to the American entrepreneurs who built the industries that can support our armed forces. Of course you government worshipping bobble heads think the governments money is theirs, it’s not, it’s our money.
Now, if you have a problem with industry getting some tax-exempt money, CHANGE THE TAX SYSTEM! If you don’t like it eliminate the criminal progressive tax system that we’ve been tweaking for a century and still can’t get it to work right. Get rid of the 72,000+ page tax code. Get rid of the terrorist IRS. Reform our tax system to a simple Constitutionally mandated Flat Tax, or even better, a Fair Tax where everybody pays something into the system.
Now that would be a real “fair share”.
Yep, in the next 4 months you have a choice to make, between freedom or tyranny
So how are you going to grow the middle class? What’s the plan? It seems the plan is to tax the rich into middle class.
Third point is, you know obama is a communist, right? Here is good info on his background and associations with the communist party http:// frontpagemag.com/2012/jamie-glazov/the-communist-frank-marshall-davis-the-untold-story-of-barack-obama%e2%80%99s-mentor/#.UA2q4PzIXu1.twitter
Here is the best quote from the article “The communists considered liberals to be their useful idiots.”
@ MacForrester back at 1.118,
How was Jefferson to be taken in these quotes?
1) I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious.
2) Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread.
3) The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
4) Most bad government has grown out of too much government.
5) Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others?
6) The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.
7) The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.
8) Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.
9) I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
10) When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Since you are all knowing and everything, please tell me how Jefferson was pro government based on these ten.
Maybe I should give you a Lincoln quote too:
"Tis better to have people think you a fool than speak and remove all doubt."
Clearly Lincoln was in favor of teleprompters back then, huh?
Here is Romneys speech to Olympians, 2002 telling them they didn't make it there on there own. They made it there on the shoulders of their parents, their coaches, and the COMMUNITY! Mitt the hypocrite.
So Romney was caught lying again saying things Obama did not say. Well watch this short clip of Romney saying the pretty much the same thing Obama just said. The video does not lie. Mitt does. Flip Flop will say he retroactively did not say what he said in short video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Yp9SVSWJU
Thanks, Kornfed.
I'd hate to run for office. Not only do you have every stupid thing you've said in your life out there, but if you can't dig into that you have what you are saying cut up and pieced back together into a political sound-bite for the other side.
I'm no Obama fan, but if what you posted is accurate, he not only didn't say anything wrong, he was so philosophical at times that everything he said was correct. It is actually impossible for it to be anything else but.
I'd have more respect for Romney if he stood up and said, "Obama right, but where does he specifically stand on X".
As I stated, I am no Obama fan. But I can't stand Romney.
To answer the first questions, obstructionist is somebody who votes against their own bill (like cap and trade), or their own ideas (like the mandate) or their own philosophy like infrastructure and too many examples to list -- And does so with premeditation and lock-step unity.
To the second question, that is a fallacy. In Pelosi's first term she passed over 300 bills, many that were "heavy lift." Boehner & Co., who take a week off for every two worked, have presented something like 30 bills, often recycled ones, useless ones (like naming a post office), abortion bills, or poisoned bills.
The poisoned bills are not bipartisan, and are bills they know are so far to the Right it can't pass (like the balanced budget amendment, which they recycled about three times), or attaching something like a "personhood' abortion amendment to the flood insurance bill. This in addition to wasting millions of tax dollars to vote on the repeal of ACA 33 times is per McConnell admitting their only goal is to defeat the president.
Too bad they are willing to throw the American people under the bus in the process -- Shameful as never seen in history before.
Yes because a balanced budget would be so dumb right TP? Do you have a balanced budget at home? Odds are you live in a state with a balanced budget requirement.
Your logic is so flawed. No wonder we are @!$%#ed.
Worm meat -- Tyranny, really, seriously?!!!
Let's take health care reform, which is usually what the rightwing is referring to when they spew hyperbole like "tyranny." The ACA was passed with a clear majority per our constitutional democracy. Just because a person doesn't agree with a law or legislation, doesn't mean it's tyranny.
Feel free to look up "despotism" too.
Even ACA was not "jammed down" people throats as much as the Bush tax cuts were -- especially the second round of cuts only for the rich in 2003 during time of war. The reason these tax cuts are set to expire is because there weren't enough votes to pass it -- So they used reconciliation, with the 2003 cuts requiring Cheney's vote to break a tie.
There are times of "slippery slopes" in our history, for example Bush v Gore, in which Gore ultimately won the election with the popular vote. It's mind-bending the "victim" mentality rightwingers have, but the hyperbole such as Marxist, or tyranny is really ignorant.
Tom - Plymouth-3672298
This is purely deflection by Barrack Hussein. When you don’t have any success to offer you attack the other guy. The $85 billion a year this tax increase will generate will pay for 8.5 days of our debt (we spend $10 billion every day). What do we do about the other 356.5 days? Also, we all know that ANY money added to the government’s coffers will just be aimlessly
investedspent, just like the $timulu$. I guarantee you nowhere in any legislation will it say that all revenue from the tax increase will go to paying off our massive debt and unfunded liabilities.As far as cutting the size of government slowly, no. We can comfortably cut 25% of our government. Why? Because virtually every study, review and audit done BY THE GOVERNMENT about the government shows we have 20%-30% of waste, fraud, abuse and corruption. Only in our criminal government can its own watchdogs find these abuses and yet they are just allowed to continue.
As far as raising taxes are concerned, we shouldn’t. Regardless of the nonsense the Liberals/Progressives keep blathering, the OMB shows revenues increased every year from 2003-2007 with the Bush tax cuts. Actually Bush’s 2007 revenues were bigger than Clintons best year in 2000.
Also, the IRS and Bureau of Economic Analysis have shown that a 1% point increase in Social Security or Medicare tax rates is associated with a 0.1% increase in the unemployment rate. This is the conundrum we are in now. Keep the payroll taxes where they are and lose revenue, because these taxes are the only ones that tax everyone equally, or let them expire and see a 0.2% increase in the unemployment rate. We’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t.
To Dem4Freddom: You wanted to know what an independent thought. Well, I think it's all about the economy. Personally, I changed my party affiliation to independent about 2 1/2 years ago because I think both major political parties stink ! The party politicians are not interested in the U.S. or it's citizens. They are interested in themselves and power. You can't trust a word they say because they are saying whatever they need to to get elected . Remember what Obama whispered to the Soviets about getting re-elected first ? Both parties do it.
Patriot, I made no mention of obamacare but now that you brought it up, obamacare was passed per the law, however that doesn't make it right or good. It was also passed with a democratic majority before the mid-term elections, when more republicans were elected.
A big government is never good, never has been and never will be, you can look that up your self too. a little research will show that big government will grow and put a larger strain on the citizens through taxes and regulations that growth will be close to impossible.
Health care (or anything) should not be in the control of any one group, government or organization. By centralizing anything you take choice out of the equation and when you don't have a choice you don't have the freedom to choose.
There is nothing wrong with non-profit, church groups, or charities be a source of help.
Alan, NJ - your earlier posting where you complain that if the job bill was passed unemployment would be under 7% with layoff teachers, police, fire and other government employees being rehired. It's not the federal government responsibility to fund for state employees that why the debt is over 15 trillion. I pay state and property taxes for state employees to be funded. If the state is broken because they promised more than they could deliver to buy votes at the taxpayers at expense then the only thing they have left to do is cut positions. The states always cut teachers, fire and police first for political theatre. If they really care about their state they would freeze hiring and look at administrative and other positions they could go without. Why is it always the teacher that gets fired but never any of the school districts administrators? I support no job bill that only help state employees its time for the states to fix their own mess. NO MORE BAILOUTS! Finally why do all of Obama job bills only concern union workers and not the private sector?. Could he be buying some more votes.
Rational AmeriCAN # 1.136: I'll just be damnmed. RA has went somewhere and found some some quotes, then copied and pasted 'em on here, and now wants me to give 'em historical context. Too many RA, and I'll just be gwaddamned if I'll do your work for you. By the way; that Lincoln quote you're passing? Strong likelyhood It was a quote by someone else. RA, there are some good historical books and writings on "Thomas Jefferson" available, some from the time He was a child growing up in the colony of Va. One even tells about Him courting His sister "Jane" with Her resting in the woods while "Long Tom" walked around playing the fiddle. Incestuous but interesting. Give it a try RA. Learn something. Just as a teaser RA; that student I spoke about earlier talking to Jefferson went by the name of "Carrington". Hateful young bastard.
Rational AmeriCAN, # 1.140
Please explain to me either
1) How we fight a war with a balanced budget
or
2) How do you word a balanced budget proposal so that it would allow budget busting to cover US military excursions like WWII, Libya, Granada, Kuwait or the landing of Marines in Lebanon or Korea, or going into Vietnam.
starsailing
So, using your reasoning, how many people in your family have been Olympians? I mean, you have parents, right? You must have known a coach in some Olympc event, right? You live in a COMMUNITY, right? So all of you should be Olympians. Hell, everybody in your COMMUNITY should be an Olympian. If thats all it takes we should ALL be Olympians.
Be careful how you answer this.
@gideb114#1.145: A great many of these states dont have "public sector unions". Yes, it is the responsibility to help with any state funding that's for the good of the people living in that state. Most states are in the mess they are in due to the gutting of the Federal Government, the financial systems failures, housing bust,and resulting business contractions causing millions of lost jobs, which in turn created a high level of unemployment compensation, inability to pay for needed health care, food stamps, etc. Paying all this with diminishing revenue streams causes deficits and debt. Simple arithmetic. If "Alan of NJ" said this, He's right.
The article was referring to Mitt, but at first I thought they might be talking about Obama. Drone attacks against American citizens overseas, expanded war efforts in Libya, ect..., ect...
I think it is safe to say whether Obama or Mitt gets elected most of the Bush policies will be continued.
Rational....talking state balanced budgets? Well Little Gov. Timmy full of plenty in Mn solved the budget by borrowing and borrowing some more like typical repubs. Borrowed from educational funds. Of course that affects schools so everyone has to pay higher home taxes to pay for little Timmy and his spending while screaming the Norquist pledge to the world. Then he says he balanced the budget!
Repubs borrow and spend, which raises taxes on homeowners, then repubs say "See we did not raise your taxes and we stuck with our Norquist pledge." Insanity! Lay off teachers, firemen, police, etc. Crashing the economy while the rich have the lowest tax rates in history!
End the repub borrow and spend madness, Vote Obama/Biden 2012
Jim, I agree with everything you say, that 20 - 30% goes to criminals and politicians friends.
But most of the other fools on here think it is the other sides fault. and that is why we are were we are.
Star, just because TPaw acted like a Democrat doesn't mean we should vote for a democrat.
Here is the difference between the dems and Repubs, The dems want to borrow money and pretend they can tax somebody else to pay the money back,
The repubs borrow money knowing there is no way to pay it back.
GreenTimer -- Agreed. But IMO a balanced budget amendment is unconstitutional as it would be taxation without representation. The founding fathers set-up checks and balances, and gave control of the purse stings to congress knowing that the process is messy (like making sausage), and if We the People don't like what they do, we can vote them out.
Aside from the unconstitutional nature of the balanced budget amendment, it is austerity because of the low amount of spending as a percent of GDP. Spending needs to be at least 20% of GDP, and optimally at 22%. We are around 18% right now, which can do temporarily but not long-term. Many in the GOP/TP have proposed spending as low as 16% of GDP, which would result in anarchy.
So folks like myself just don't agree with Teapublicans on their "eating the corn seed" amendment, or much of anything anymore because the rightwing has gone off into crazy land.
Tom - Plymouth-3672298 The difference between the two Parties is the Dems try to PAYGO, which means taxing before spending. The Teapublicans don't tax and just spend, spend, spend -- especially on wars (then deficits don't matter). That's how we ended up with the debt/deficits we have today. Now that a Dem is in the White House, the GOP/TP want to cut before spending (and out of fear of Grover Norquist).
Well that's all about to end. We are going off the cliff -- Yahoo! And immediately after the Bush tax cuts expire, legislation will be passed to restore tax cuts for the middle class and working poor. Oh, and we'll see how those automatic cuts to defense and the debt ceiling go too...
The states in the worst shape are also the states that have the largest and governments. California, Illinois, New Jersey, Neveda, New York....
Just wondering where you got your numbers? What I have seen we are at or above 40% GDP currently and for the last few years which is more then the average of 30 - 35%.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_20th_century_chart.html
@ GreenTimer
Please explain to me either
1) How we fight a war with a balanced budget
War bonds.
http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1682.html
Come on man. Its not that hard.
@starsailing
What are you smoking?
Obama debt is how much? And how much was borrowed? (Hint: All of it, that's why they call it debt.)
And what did Obama spend it on? Even he does not know. Its just gone and no one seems to want to hold the @!$%#er accountable.
Does anyone REALLY believe that this 'blame the rich' strategy of Obama is meaningful?
Don't people recognize that this is nothing but a diversion from his failure on the economy/jobs?
Even the Democrats in Congress know that this is just campaign rhetoric, but it's interesting how many people on this vine are fooled by thinking that it's a REAL issue.
You'd have a hard time finding ANY unbiased, responsible economist that would tell you that raising taxes on ANYONE in a recession is a good idea - in fact, Keynes (hero of the liberals) would roll over in his grave laughing at the thought.
@ Mac Forrester,
Please be. So you can't tell me why Jefferson feared the growth of government so you
Me thinks you are a bloviator of small politics for a small president.
Roy
If Obama told the Liberals the sky was chartreuse then by damn it the sky is chartreuse.
Isn't it funny or maybe not.
The Bush tax cuts gave money to people that didn't pay taxes and allowed every single person in the US to keep more of their labor/Money.
Now not everybody was treated equal; the people that made less actually got to keep more of their labor/Money than those that had a higher income.
And those on the Left think this was horrible because people that have a higher income then themselves got to keep anymore of their own labor/money.
Rational - to be fair if Mit said the sky was green most repubs would agree or say it was green with shades of blue.
You know like when the Repubs loved the patriot act, not now don't like it so much.
@ GreenTimer
Please explain to me either
1) How we fight a war with a balanced budget
War bonds.
Or we could do something like when the Government declares War automatic tax increase of 1% across the board kicks in. and after the first year raise it to what is needed to cover the cost. That would at least make congress think before acting.
Alan, you're posturing wears thin. I am amused at your repeated attempts to appear impartial and independent but your posts speak volumes otherwise. At least you have backed off of that fairy tale that smelled like fertilizer about Bane's success rate being 80% that you were selling a while back.
Since Rmoney has hired a large chunk of bushco's inner circle and he is being embraced by evil incarnate in the persons of Rover and Chainy, I suspect that you know perfectly well what to expect. Did you like the 8 years of bushanomics? That's what Romney will bring. I suspect you know that or you'd not be smart enough turn on your computer. I would gladly take 4 more years of our pain we've had with Obama, a large part of which was caused by your repugnicans, rather than be devastated by 4 or 8 more years of bushanomics. Say what you want about Bane but they are/were evil. They got rich by destroying people's lives. There are things in life more important than money. Not being a lying,thieving whore is one of them. Rmoney must have skipped school the day the other Mormons were taught that.
I'll supply the link if you want.
If you think Romney is going to be Bush Redux then I agree with you. However, the country is not in the same place as 12 years ago where Bush could at least argue for a tax cut. I don't think Romney will push through a tax cut, I hope he does push through tax reform. I also don't think he will create a new entitlement. I don't see how his foreign policy will differ from Bush/Obama, and I don't see a war because there is no way the military can take on Iran right now.
At the end of the day whoever is elected will be constrained by the fiscal dilemma we are in. There will be cuts in entitlements and there will be additional revenue raised, regardless of the party of the President.
Alan N.J.
They use the infrustrucre to move products out of their factories and customers into their stores. Non-business owners do not. What a stupid diversion you're trying. It's painfully obvious that your wriggling and squirming to escape admitting the fact that Romeny's entire campaign is based on lies.
Roy, apparently the middle class, the majority of red blooded Americans, support the President, compared to Robme. Could it be that Pres. Obama talks about what is on the mind of the vast majority of us? In your eyes it is all strategy and politics, with no human input, just more graphs and fact sheets and data,,,,,,so sad the Repugs. have removed themselves from their electorate, with their position on S.S., Medicare, public assistance, enviornmental, public schooling, and foreign relations.
AmeriCAN # 1.157 & Tom-Plymouth # 1.163 responded to my inquiry:
with the following answer
War Bonds are the same as T-Notes which is how the government goes into debt by borrowing money - which violates a balanced budget rule.
So since both of you answered "War Bonds", both of you are saying we cannot require a balanced budget because we have to be able to borrow money. Thank you for seeing the light.
And, Tom, imposing a tax after declaring war still requires spending spending before the revenue arrives.
Rational AmeriCAN
Since you like to quote Lincoln;
Where do you think Mittens fits in here?
Rational AmeriCAN
While praising the Jeffersonian views on government interference with the freedoms of man, perhaps you'd favor the repeal of the thirteenth amendment as well? Then, like Jefferson, we could all enjoy the benefits of holding men and women as chattel and again like Jefferson we could even reproduce with our property as well.
Jefferson talked a good game on the freedoms of man against the tyranny of government, but when he was in a position to actually do something about it, he fell short.
Now we're faced with the prospect of electing a multimillionaire vulture capitalist that is going to set us all free from the evils of too much government interference of the rich and powerful interests that hold us and our country in servitude. For the majority of Americans, that prospect is close to being given the freedom to serve our corporate masters or slowly die.
How history repeats itself.
Thanks for the opening workingpoor,
“Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.”
Unquestionably Bain Capital has supplied capital to companies that employ people. People who are thankful for those jobs. People who add value to society. Who pay their taxes.
If you understand the simple premise that not all businesses should survive, then some are going to either go out of business or will have to do some major restructuring to remain viable. When Obama tried his hand at being a capital firm by supplying taxpayer money from you and me to Solyndra, they still went out of business and took our half a billion dollars with them. The laborers lost their jobs. When Obama gave Fisker money to build electric cars in the US that took the money and went back to Finland to build the cars. Why?
Rather than focus on the failed businesses that Bain invested in, focus on the 80% who are still in business and thriving. How many people do they employ? How much value to society do they provide?
Surely you understand these principles of economics and business and are not really a communist.
------------
At what point did I bring up the 13th Amendment, WP? All of the founding fathers of the country lamented the failing to rid the nation of slavery at the outset. Lincoln called it a stain on our nation.
Obfuscate much?
Rational AmeriCAN
You're Welcome.
Seeing that Bain Capitals' specialty was working with either companies that wanted to outsource to other low wage countries or the Vulture capitalization of companies by borrowing large against them and then bankrupting them and taking those jobs you mentioned along with the retirements.
How exactly do you come up with an 80% figure?
If Mittens had retained or saved 80% of the companies that Bain capital invested in I doubt that they would have remained quiet about it and it would probably be using it as a talking point.
The few examples of companies that Bain didn't gut are mostly companies that offer low wage jobs, nothing like the jobs they took away.
At no point did you bring up the thirteenth amendment. I did. I asked YOU a question.
Not all the founding fathers lamented their failure to eliminate slavery. If that were so then it's elimination would have been trivial. So the question remains.
BTW if you expect to bait or shame me you'll have to do better than, "Surely you understand these principles of economics and business and are not really a communist."
Obfuscate much?
Yes, the majority of Americans want our Government to insure and provide for the general welfare of the U.S.A., not some hedge fund manager or Corporate interest, Bank, etc. that has a profit motive that is class orientated, (more profit to those in control, than those who actually produce the product). The majority of PEOPLE produce the product, yet the substantial gain is toward the "paper pushers" who produce zip, only #"s on balance sheets, and that is what Repugs and Robme has pushed for 50 years. Talk about "class warfare", what is a corporate structure other than that in any business enviornment?
We've all been there. Sign here, or agree to these terms, or we will increase your return, or sorry we can't USE you anymore.........Get Real, Repugs and conservatives, than maybe you will get some voters back.
.
One of my favorite writers is perhaps being forced to retire due to health issues. Obviously he thought long and hard about what to say at this possibly final moment of his career. Sometimes good writers say things in a way we mere amateurs can't hope to match, so mostly today I bow to Donald Kaul;
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20120722/OPINION01/307220036/-1/SPORTS09/Kaul-My-broken-heart
As Kaul notes there was a time when harming our government and our nation in search of political gain would have been out of the question. Obviously those days are in the past, at least for now. Perhaps only pre-Civil War America saw such a climate of hyper-partisanship previously in our history.
It's time for Congressional Democrats to grow a spine. It's time for he MSM to be honest about that mountain of money headed their way and admit that plutocrats are trying to buy our government. It's time for the few moderates not yet driven from the GOP to insist that the radicals stop paralyzing our political process.
Feisty, you made your point as succinctly as possible. Spare us all and please continue to make your point this way in the future.
Absolutely the best response ever (and future) by Feisty.
Even without a post... It stinks..Yuk
Thanks for posting that John B.
Robber barons roam freely these days. Sickening isn't it? What's worse is all the poor Republicans running around carrying their water for them.
Romney in 2002 speech to Olypians tells them they didn't make it their on their own. They stood on the shoulders of their parents, and coaches, and communities.
Romney believes the same thing President Obama believes on support road to success but now rips Obama for the very thing he himself said before the whole world during Olympics.
See on u tube the Romney hypocrite speech.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Yp9SVSWJU
Vote Obama/Biden 2012
John B -
Thanks, especially for the link to the full article that includes the headline. When he talks about "My broken heart", it's obvious he's not really referring to the one he had all the treatment for in the hospital, but to the country he loves. Whenever a poll asks that stupid "right direction/wrong direction" question, I'll remember this article.
John B, his column sums up my feelings about the current GOPTP and your thoughts were spot on. I am sorry to hear about Donald Kaul. He's one of my favorites. He is one of the few liberal opinion writers we actually see in the local paper amidst the heavy doses of whacky writers like Diana West and Kathryn Lopez who both see bogeymen behind every tree and rock; never thought I'd say it but a Cal Thomas op ed at least isn't full of irrational conspiracy theories like West and Lopez.
I always enjoy Kaul's columns because he doesn't pull punches for either side and he writes with wonderful humor. He doesn't suffer fools and one thing I know, the GOPTP legislatures these days is filled with fools. He has written editorials criticizing the left when the situation warranted it just as he took a swing at them in this column.
JohnB, you reference don kaul?? I liked reading his observations back in the 60's and early 70's before he lost touch with reality.
His opinionated opinions today rarely hit the mark unless one is a liberal or progressive. Whatever the sunday register pays him for his op-ed pieces is money wasted. Then again the register isn't a neutral type of paper, although they do try to be more so today than in the past.
He started his opinion piece in fine shape by referencing his heart attack, however he soon decries washington republicans as overpowering the weak democrats and ends by comparing the colonial period workers with todays.
Funny, my k-12 education always referenced the colonials as being the small business owners and entreprenuers of the day. You know, those that worked with a hands on approach and the only ones who worked for another were usually indentured workers or slaves. If I recall correctly the mix was about 90-10. With 90% being the self employed. It was the industrial revolution in America that started the change.
A don kaul editorial reference... how droll. I think I will stay with bloombergTV economic and business news. At least there, politics takes the back seat and one can get a better picture of what happens globally and domestically without the anchors trying to push a political agenda.
well said fiesty, This is some of your best work i really enjoyed it for a change.
America Is Poisoned by the NRA's Dark Gun Culture
There are some 300 million guns in the United States, one in four adult Americans owns at least one and most of them are men.
July 20, 2012 |
You might think Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of and spokesman for the mighty American gun lobby, the National Rifle Association, has an almost cosmic sense of timing. In 2007, at the NRA's annual convention in St. Louis, he warned the crowd that, "Today, there is not one firearm owner whose freedom is secure." Two days later, a young man opened fire on the campus of Virginia Tech, killing 32 students, staff and teachers.
Just last week LaPierre showed up at the United Nations Conference on the Arms Trade Treaty here in New York and spoke out against what he called "anti-freedom policies that disregard American citizens' right to self-defense." Now at least 12 are dead in Aurora, Colorado, gunned down at a showing of the new film, "The Dark Knight Rises," a Batman movie filled with make-believe violence. One of the guns the shooter reportedly used was an AK-47 type assault weapon that was banned in 1994. The NRA pressured Congress to let the ban run out in 2004.
Obviously, LaPierre's timing isn't cosmic, just coincidental and unfortunate; as Shakespeare famously wrote, the fault is not in our stars, but in ourselves. In other words, people -- people with guns. There are some 300 million guns in the United States, one in four adult Americans owns at least one and most of them are men. According to the British newspaper The Guardian, over the last 30 years, "the number of states with a law that automatically approves licenses to carry concealed weapons provided an applicant clears a criminal background check has risen from eight to 38."
Every year there are 30,000 gun deaths and perhaps as many as 300,000 gun-related assaults in the U.S. Firearm violence costs our country as much as $100 billion a year. Toys are regulated with greater care and safety concerns than guns.
So why do we always act so surprised? Violence is our alter ego, wired into our Stone Age brains, so intrinsic its toxic eruptions no longer shock, except momentarily when we hear of a mass shooting like this latest in Colorado. But this, too, will pass as the nation of the short attention span quickly finds the next thing to divert us from the hard realities of America in 2012.
We are a country which began with the forced subjugation into slavery of millions of Africans and the reliance on arms against Native Americans for its westward expansion. In truth, more settlers traveling the Oregon Trail died from accidental, self-inflicted gunshots wounds than Indian attacks – we were not only bloodthirsty but also inept.
Nonetheless, we have become so gun loving, so gun crazy, so blasé about home-grown violence that far more Americans have been casualties of domestic gunfire than have died in all our wars combined. In Arizona last year, just days after the Gabby Giffords shooting, sales of the weapon used in the slaughter – a 9 millimeter Glock semi-automatic pistol – doubled.
We are fooling ourselves. Fooling ourselves that the law could allow even an inflamed lunatic to easily acquire murderous weapons and not expect murderous consequences. Fooling ourselves that the Second Amendment's guarantee of a "well-regulated militia" be construed as a God-given right to purchase and own just about any weapon of destruction you like, a license for murder and mayhem. A great fraud has entered our history.
Maybe you remember a video you can still see on YouTube. In it, Adam Gadahn, an American born member of al Qaeda, the first US citizen charged with treason since 1952, urges terrorists to carry out attacks on the United States. Right before your eyes he says, "America is absolutely awash with easily obtainable firearms. You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle without a background check, and most likely, without having to show an identification card. So what are you waiting for?"
The gunman in Colorado waited only for his opportunity. So there you have it – the arsenal of democracy has been transformed into the arsenal of death. And the NRA? The NRA is the enabler of death -- paranoid, delusional and as venomous as a scorpion. With the weak-kneed acquiescence of our politicians, the National Rifle Association has turned the Second Amendment of the Constitution into a cruel and deadly hoax.
Bill Moyers is managing editor and Michael Winship is senior writer of the weekly public affairs program, Moyers & Company, airing on public television. Check local airtimes or comment at www.BillMoyers.com.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We will continue to wring our hands over inadequate gun laws, but until 'we the people' send politicians on both sides to Congress who will be willing to withstand the barrage from the NRA very little will be accomplished. We can probably look forward to another murder spree at some point in time when once again we'll repeat the same hand wringing. How many murder sprees will it take for voters to send politicians to do the right thing and not be intimidated by the bullying and blackmail tactics of the NRA?
Put people to work Colt and other gun factory's hiring.
Buy guns put people to work.
Romney and ? 2012
PS, Yes i,m a redneck and a well off redneck.
In a perfect world, we'd split the states up into Red and Blue... and make all the conservatives move to the Red ones and Liberals move to the Blue ones... and watch as the Red ones prospered, and the Blue ones turned into Detroit welfare cesspools... and then, when the Blue ones sank into chaos and a "benevolent" dictator took over, watching all the anti-gun liberal academic elitists herded into the death camps... followed by the gays... and the OWS crowd... and anyone too lazy to work.... because their Constitution wouldn't have a 2nd Amendment and there wouldn't be anyone to stop it.... all the Liberal looney tunes in Germany were positive it couldn't happen there either..... and walked like sheep into the gas chambers....
.. IT is STILL the ECONOMY Stupid!!!!
The Chicago Mob is showing it's true Capone style logic!
TRUTH!!
.Obama the promise BREAKER!! Equals a LIAR!!! BIG EMBARRASSMENT to the USA!!!
Obama’s promise that his healthcare proposals would “never be purchased with [a] tax increase on middle-class families.” The SUPREME COURT & JUSTICE DEPT say it is a TAX!!! .Attack on the middle Class! Taxation by misrepresentation
…….…NOW Obama wants to invade Syria and Iran!!!
..mr. American businessman..YOU DID NOT MAKE THAT!! It was stolen from the back of the worker---PURE MARXISM!!
Remember these?
THE OBAMA CHRONICLES:
“I promise 100% transparency in my administration.”.
“I promise NO NEW TAXES on a family making less than $250K a year.”.
“I will allow 5 days of public comment before I sign any bills.”.
“I will remove earmarks from PORK projects before I sign any bill.”.
“I will end Income Tax for seniors making less than $50K a year.”.
"I will bring ALL of our troops home within ONE year."
“I’ll put the Health Care negotiations on CSPAN so everyone can see who is at the table!”.
“I’ll have no lobbyists in my administration."
"I'll close Guantanamo."
"I'll resign if I don't cut the deficit in half by the end of four years."
"I'll unite the people of this great country."
“The TROOPS will be home for CHRISTMAS.” WHY ARE MORE LEAVING EVERYDAY???? AND DYING every day…
NOW Obama invokes Executive Privilege( as a Sen. called it’s use a RUSE!) for Holder on GUN SMUGGLING and killing US Agent Brain Terry!!! That only applies if Obama was part of it!! Obama & Holder should be on trial for giving Machine Guns to the Mexican Drug cartels!!
BETTER KNOWN AS LIES.
Fool me once shame on YOU!
Fool me twice shame on ME!
Feisty @#2: Amazing, you post a BLANK COMMENT at #2 and get 8 people to support it. You must spend a fortune buying drinks, like Obama buys votes (with taxpayer money). Does yours come from NBC? I guess we are back to the old Chicago days.
Obama is right. The plan the Repubs want, is the same plan we have had the last 40 years. Its no wonder the wealthy want it to continue, they have done great. Its the rest of the people who didnt do so well. All the economic decline for the last 40 years, will continue under Romney. Its just more of the same failure.
Obama 2012.
Vote for the candidate who supports the middle class and Americans. Not the panderers of the rich, and foreign-interests..
Fed up....Your point is lost in the fact that the red states currently represent the poorest, most uneducated, and obese people in the Union. This is not my opinion by the way, it is a fact supported by numerous statistics taken about the state of education in the deep south and midwest and the states with the highest unemployment and median incomes. While there are many pockets of unemployed liberal followers, the states occupying a mostly liberal stance are doing considerably better as a whole than those people in the red states. This is why it is so mystifying to me why these people continue to want to vote for individuals working against their best interests.
Gil-2872519
Feisty @#2: Amazing, you post a BLANK COMMENT at #2 and get 8 people to support it. You must spend a fortune buying drinks, like Obama buys votes (with taxpayer money). Does yours come from NBC? I guess we are back to the old Chicago days.
________________________________________________________________
Love it-Love it-Love it!!!!!!!!! Best quote of the day. Should go in the hall of quotes.
You are inane !!!
Who Built I-80? Obama Talks about Public Works, Conservatives Fumble
By Joe Klein | July 18, 2012
There are, Lord knows, reasons to attack or criticize Barack Obama. The Republican Party seems unable to locate the President’s actual deficits, however, and continues to hammer him on dumb things. Like the notion that he isn’t really an American. Or they take things he says out of context. For example, this now semi-famous statement: “If you’ve got a business–you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.”
Now let’s take a look at what the President actually did say, in context:
If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.
Clearly, and I mean this is pretty obvious, the President is not saying that businessmen aren’t responsible for building their businesses. He is saying that government is responsible for building the highways and airports and information superhighways like the internet that help business do business. This is not an anti-business statement. It is a pro-government statement (and pro-government statements are not necessarily anti-business–just ask any local Chamber of Commerce that gets government grants for civic improvement). Furthermore, the President is supporting the sort of government that free market champions going back to Adam Smith have favored. Indeed, Smith is on the record in favor of taxes–more immediately, tolls–to pay for these public works:
A highway, a bridge, a navigable canal, for example, may in most cases be both made and maintained by a small toll upon the carriages which make use of them: a harbour, by a moderate port-duty upon the tonnage of the shipping which load or unload in it. The coinage, another institution for facilitating commerce, in many countries, not only defrays its own expense, but affords a small revenue or seignorage to the sovereign. The post-office, another institution for the same purpose, over and above defraying its own expense, affords in almost all countries a very considerable revenue to the sovereign.
The ahistorical extremists who call themselves conservatives are, of course, blocking bills that would furnish funds to repair roads and bridges, and also the post office, and–another “of course” seems necessary here–they are blocking any effort to raise tolls to pay for them. They are panicky right now because Mitt Romney’s furtive behavior is hurting their party and so they’re trotting out this sloppy crap. Arguments can be made about this Administration’s anti-business actions, especially when it comes to the sclerotic regulatory morass and the byzantine tax code, but no one seems to be making them.
http://swampland.time.com/2012/07/18/who-built-i-80/?iid=sl-article-mostpop1
________________________________________________________
You know in all my years of messing around the edges of politics I don’t think that I have ever seen a bunch of Yahoo’s that are more willing to tell a lie, stretch the truth and just downright prevaricate than Ol’ Willard and his Surrogates.
Now not only did they have to chop these remarks all to hell and gone to come up with something that they could use but then they come up with a commercial to go with it.
It features a feller who is all indignant about perceived demonetization of Small Business Owners and such like. What they don’t tell you is that Self Righteous Individual started His Business with a loan from the Small Business Administration.
D@mn fellows most Folks spend a little Time to get their story straight before the rush it into production. ‘Course the Folks that are buying this stuff don’t figger that they have to stick with the Truth. The Any Body but Obama Folks will believe anything at any time as long as it fits their Mime.
All this to disguise the fact that all that they have to run on is thirty years of failure to do anything for Regular Folks.
But don’t worry there will be a bunch of Yahoo’s on here to repeat the Big Lie.
Over and Over and Over and Over.
Floyd,
I ♥ it when we're on the same page in the morning! See my comment #1.1
Good one Floyd!
IR--it says to me that they have nothing positive of their own to offer---only retreads of failed Bush policies and Romney's almost desperate desire to be President. Instead they have to win by telling lies---I guess a hollow victory would still be a victory to the GOP.
So your point, IR, is that Obama knows as much about grammar as he does about arithmetic? In the sentence "if you have a business, you did not buld THAT", 'that' is the object. Had he been referring to the prior sentence, which referenced roads and bridges, the sentence should have been "if you have a business, you did not build THOSE"; "those" being the proper object to reference roads and bridges.
Nevertheless, in or out of context, Obama spoke truthfully about his philosophy. What he seems to miss is that the people who have successful businesses DID build "those" roads and bridges- via taxes paid for their construction. Moreover, those roads and bridges are shared with people who contribute nothing whatsoever to their construction- but take from those who do pay taxes.
Spin it all you like- Obama's collectivist economic philosophy is now public- and not very popular.
Another gem, IR. This particular issue really sticks in my craw. I've owned and run a couple small businesses. To say that the groundwork (some might call it infrastructure or financial assistance) was not an integral part of the decision to open a business is a certain sign that person has NEVER run a business.
It's Mitch McConnell and Eric Cantor telling us about the hazards of being a businessman, when both have been drawing government checks for virtually their entire adult lives. They don't have a clue what it means to run a business. They only know what their masters tell them.
On that score, I clipped a couple of right-winger quotes from the pages of First Read yesterday. These guys don't have a clue.
Rational AmeriCAN wrote:
That is absolutely false. For starters, any number of public projects (infrastructure) are financed with bonds, or COP's, or some other financing mechanism. Payments for that infrastructure extend decades into the future. Further, the fact that we have public debt clearly demonstrates that we have not paid for infrastructure.
Really? 200,000 pages? REALLY? That is pure BS. That kind of nonsense should embarrass even a right-winger. But, it doesn't. They have no shame.
So NoJo We're back to the definition of what "is" is. Pitiful just downright Pitiful. I'm sure it won't stop you so rattle on. But take the Rattling somewhere where some body wants to hear it 'cause it sure ain't here.
Hmmmm...I80 as referenced by IR...last time I checked that's the Interstate highway which is best route from D.C. to Chicago. Will Mrs. BHO share in the driving "home" in the UHaul? Have they reserved the 24 foot model yet? I guarantee there will be plenty of volunteers to help them pack. Note to volunteers...count the plates and silverware...be sure of ownership before packing.
BTW NoJo- do not forget that the business creators create jobs, which increases taxes, which build the roads. Now if serial unemployed (ie, the freeloaders) have a chance for a job, and to pay taxes, why on earth would the president want to insult the small business risk takers?
You want to talk about shame, DW? If liberals had any, there would not be even one who defended Obama and his disastrous administration. Instead, you make excuses, cast about for blame, and try to redefine failure as success.
Fortunately, all of the bloviating has not moved the electorate. Constant repetition of Obama's "likability" isn't doing it, either- as someone recently, succinctly, pointed out, Obama may be a nice guy, but we can't afford him.
Lack of common sense in liberals seems only exceeded by lack of shame.. How else do you explain this
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/07/23/victims_brother_to_msnbc_were_not_here_to_politicize_and_talk_gun_control.html
any decent person would be writhing in shame-Somehow, I doubt anybody even feels a twinge today- other than blame for whoever got the "get".
Greenbear: Get a life, man.
17 out of 24 Romney advisors formally worked under the Bush/Cheney failed team.........17 out of 24!!!!!!!!!!!!
911, Afgan, Iraq, Katrina, the 2nd Great Depression.........CHRIST SAKE! Wasn't once enough with these failed people? Bush,Cheney,Rove,Norquist, and King Romney Trying to drag the country back into the past where they made millions of dollars off death and destruction.
Romney for a worse tomorrow today!
Vote PRESIDENT OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Any small business investing in job-creation instead of wealth-creation better have a deep pocketed sugar daddy to overcome the losses.
Capitalists create wealth by producing more for less cost - less costs like labor. Demand creates jobs - demand from people with good jobs spending their hard-earned money.
Capitalists have neither the incentive nor the resources to kick-start a lagging economy by hiring more people in the face of flat demand.
Reducing costs will increase demand to a point - the point of zero costs. Increasing demand via increasing employment has no limit, and only the government has the capacity to create employment without demand, by investing in things like roads, bridges, education, research and space exploration - especially now while cheap
Funny, Independent, that soooo many lib leaders are running away from this comment saying the entire context is damning.Spin it however you want, the Pres. thinks Govt. is resposible for success. So very far from the truth. Believe me, I know. Why don't you explain to me how the Govt. has helped my business?
No Joe.....guess your fearless hypocrite let you down. The same thing you are spinning about President Obama and his everyone helped you speech, Romney said the same thing to Olympians in 2002 ceremony before the world.
Try to spin Romney speech...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Yp9SVSWJU
Thank you, IR. Sometimes it feels like we're the only intelligent people in the Commonwealth ... but I do have to include my husband in that intelligence quotient. I know that in the area around where I live (which is rural) seems to have an intelligence deficit.
Good to see you Cat. Wish you would stop by more often. Till then I'll keep putting them up if you read them when you get time.
nojo
There is enough shame from both political parties to go around. The real shame is the American people not getting more involved. Words of wisdom from my late friend - Barbara. RIP Barb
Snookie Joe wrote:
Please Snookie Joe, that doesn't even rise to the level of deflection. Was that a generic "you"? If not, show me a single excuse in my post. Show me where I blames anyone. Show me where I defined failure as success. Or is this a post following the template of White Collar Auto where we talk about dogs, horses, and tax returns?
Show me a single factual error in my post, and I'll be back to apologize. Otherwise, STFU.
Yeah you Liberals are so intelligent Ha Ha Ha good at comedy too. Anyone who has to tell themselves they are intelligent is suspect, just ask any Navy Corpsman. Go back to past comments from Obama in 2008 and see what your fearless leader says now. Of course you won't because you don't do well with the truth. You guys have become the party of excuse. So when is the Terry family going to get the truth? How about the White House leaks, the balanced budget, the unemployment
IR...
Just LMAO at your post 3...
While not a direct quote from you it is obvious that you support it as well as the rest of it.
I am sure that said deficits are quite easy to locate at the treasury.gov website under historic debt. Obama and company may think that not having a budget plan will hide the deficits ala bush2 not having a specific budget category for the iraq and afghanistan conflicts but some of us aren't as gullable as FR lefties.
IR, another terrific post. Just as you predicted, along comes Snookie and a couple like her to deny the undeniable, to perform their daily anti-President Obama rant. Nothing like a daily dose of AOOCD, Anti-Obama obsessive compulsive disorder which causes lack of oxygen to the brain cells.
David, don't forget, in addition to dogs, horses, they like to rant about golf, vacations, the Hawaii bridge to the mainland.
Great post IR...... and to further prove the ignorance they so proudly exhibit along comes nojo and others of her ilk.
How does one become so hateful? How does someone become so blind to being taken for a ride, they are willing to further any lie or tell a few themselves and not be bothered in saying and doing anything positive. They are not interested in helping the country move forward.
Hate is a terrible emotion, it truly darkens the soul.
It's not enough that Romney routinely lies on President Obama and puts word in his mouth, he has now done it to Australian PM!
What an idiot and a pathological liar!!!!
He is too stupid to be President because he has no recollection of all the money he took from the Federal Government to turn the Olympics around.
Listening to him one would think he paid for it out of his very own pocket!!!
Obama is right. The plan the Repubs want, is the same plan we have had the last 40 years. Its no wonder the wealthy want it to continue, they have done great. Its the rest of the people who didnt do so well. All the economic decline for the last 40 years, will continue under Romney. Its just more of the same failure.
Obama 2012.
Vote for the candidate who supports the middle class and Americans. Not the panderers of the rich, and foreign-interests..
Good try defending your amateur-in-chief, va-redneck. Not only are you wrong about the context, because he most definitely meant others helped you "build that" from the "you think your so smart" and "hardworking" comments but BO is wrong about the government "building" the internet. BO distorts for his socialistic, big central government planning agenda to give the impression the benevolent gov build this thing called the internet just to release the imagination and work ethic of Americans to make $millions$.
You've surely heard "fool me once...fool me twice". BO aims to fool America twice.
@ David Walker (self professed communist)
Well actually it is not absolutely false. The bonds or COPs or other financing mechanism are in play whether the business is born or not. This public debt is a given that must be paid with or without the new business. When conceiving of any enterprise there are a set of knowns (givens) and assumptions (the fuzzy stuff) that go into the business model. If I were to conceive a business today I would take into account the roads and bridges as I choose my location to operate my business, the proximity to my intended customers, the tax structures, the cost of employees and on and on. I can choose to not enter the market place and sit on my capital or I can risk my capital and begin the (ad)venture realizing that nothing ever stays exactly the same nor is it required to meet my set of assumptions. Which is why so many businesses go out of business.
You clearly have no clue about starting a business. Thanks for trying, left wing commie.
IR, I went on vacation and have been recovering from the vacation since I seem to have started a nasty bout of bronchitis while at the beach. Plus, I have to get the kid ready for KINDERGARTEN (where did the time go?) which starts on the 22nd. I also have been fighting my immune system attacking some of the ink in my latest piece. *sigh* It's been a long month. But nice to know that some people noticed I wasn't as active....
Cat I always notice and check on (as far as I'm able) good folks like you and your husband. As you can see I have to be somewhat circumspect sometimes so as not to attract a little more attention than you might like as you can see from some of responses up above. It is one of the things that I hate about the way that things have gotten around here but it is what it is at least until after the election. Sorry to hear about the Bronchitis and all. Buy the Kindergartners an Ice Cream Cone and tell them their Old Uncle Redneck made you do it. I know their excited. Check in ever now and then and let me know how you and yours are doing.
Obama said the following in the Roanoke Speech:
'I'm always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.
'If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.
'The point is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.'
Romney agrees with Obama. From July 2012 speech Romney made.
"There are a lot of people in government who help us and allow us to have an economy that works and allow entrepreneurs and business leaders of various kinds to start businesses and create jobs. We all recognize that. That's an important thing.... I know that you recognize that a lot of people help you in a business. Perhaps the banks, the investors. There's no question your mom and dad. Your school teachers. The people that provide roads, the fire, and the police. A lot of people help."
Job1 -- There is similarity in the words. However Gov. Romney's tone is one of civility and respect of others while the president's remarks reek of arrogance and talking down to Americans. That's why the polls are showing a misstep by the president and he got knocked back on his heels. Everyone makes mistakes and this is one of his BIG ones. That's why the left is scrambling to walk back the damage. You see in this case it's not what one said, it was how it was said -- and the socialist with a communist mentor said it badly and revealed his true inner self -- sort of like the second Planet of the Apes movie installment with Charlton Heston.
So you are stating your opinion and no factual information.
I always thought in communication there was a sender and a receiver. As a receiver of these verbal messages those are the tones and undertones I heard. That is not an opinion and I was commenting only on the fact that the words were "similar." By looking at the poll numbers, I am not alone and in fact I am in the majority in most polls including real clear. Ole Natey boy is just a miniscule part of those polls.
Job 1
Thanks for quoting the entire context surrounding the Presidents remark, and similar thoughts expressed by Romney.
The difference between the speeches, to me, is, the President was pushing back against those who claim asking the 1% to pay more taxes is punishing them for their success. This accounts for what Ben calls the "arrogance" he thinks he detects in the President's comments.
Romney"s speech used many of the same words, but with a different intent. I find Romney's tone to be condesending. It's like an actor remembering to thank all the "little people," who helped make him a star. No one ever thinks that actor sincerely believes he owes anything to those who helped him on his way.
People on the right hear one thing, as do the people on the left. So, we all are stating our own opinion as to the content, and the tone of the two speeches.
However, if the election were held, Obama would stand a very high chance of winning.
Amy -- A very good observation on your part but as you know we disagree. The polls however show that my observation is the one resonating with likely voters so one likely conclusion from that is one campaign is doing a better job communicating its message than the other campaign. In the end that is what counts.
@Job1 -- You are "stuck on Nate" which is your choice, but throwing all your eggs in one basket is a risky move. I prefer to look at the bigger picture taking into account several polling sources. Good luck.
Ben,
I agree, the President delivered a self-inflicted wound with the way he phrased this speech, and the Romney campaign has been adroit in using it to hammering at President Obama.
However, I think the message they want to deliver - that Obama dismisses the effectiveness of small business-owners, is mostly resonating with people who would already vote for Romney. The Obama campaign, on the other hand, is really getting through to the Independents, by painting Romney as an out-sourcer, tax evader, flip flopper and out of touch rich guy. Of course, they are greatly helped by the fact, Romney really is all of those things, and unlikeable, to boot :)
Romney speech, you didn't get there on your own speech to Olympians.
Stood on the shoulders of others speech!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Yp9SVSWJU
Obama is plummeting in the polls, as his class warfare is not resonating. More Americans are now blaming the Obama policies for making the economy worse. The Obama stimulus was a failure. Obama has increased government spending adding to the problem. Now the only solution Obama can come up with is raising taxes.
According to liberals we have the smartest person to ever sit in the oval office, and he thinks that a country mired in a recession his policies have made worse can be turned around by raising taxes? It appears the Obama strategy is nothing more then continually throw crap against the wall until something sticks.
Wait until the next two rounds of numbers hit, and Obama will fall even further in the polls. The only reprieve for Obama in the foreseeable future is the Olympics, which should take some of the heat off his failing campaign strategy.
Amy -- Thank you. You, Job1 and I are holding a "civil" debate between us on our opinions. I for the life of me wonder who would vote to collapse my first response and why. It is one thing to censor those who just seem to want to attack all the time and impugn other posters, but to prevent two sides from holding a discussion boggles my mind.
Thank you, Ben and Amy. It is refreshing to have a civil debate.
This is a very interesting discussion about tone vs words. There seems to be agreement on the context and meaning. The debate is on tone.
The difference in tone is due not only to the candidates, but to the audience to whom they are addressing their remarks. They are both speaking to an audience of mostly true-believers.
Romney is politely chastising his audience of believers of wealth creation through individual initiative that they stand on the shoulders of those who have gone before. Obama is re-inforcing the ideas of his audience believers that we're all in this together that they have materially contributed to those who have accumulated great wealth.
Big difference in Romney's comment vs Obama. Obama says you are dependent upon government, Romney says you were boosted by your Coaches, friends, teachers, and Family.
That is a huge difference!
The more desperate the Obama camp becomes, the larger the lies. The government invented the internet? What are people smoking when they even contemplate believing this one? Al Gore as the leader of the inventors I suppose. The internet came about due to individuals and companies seeing the possibilities and the future and building it step by step, new idea on top of new idea. If the government had anything to do with inventing it, it would have been screwed up from the beginning and taxed to death and they would not be constantly trying to take it over. Get in touch with reality people.
Job1...
A text of a speech doesn't tell as much without the body language that went in its delivery, but I digress.
Let's look at what you think is an important point...
The individual initiative always comes first 99.99% of the time. The innovators always have to sell or develop the idea prior to any "doing things together". Ford had to convince investors first, edison had to go through 2000 failures to get a practical light bulb. Steve jobs had to have the woz turn his idea into the PC and required capital from another to manufacture it.
Sustainability requires working together but it takes the innovator to find the core group to make it happen just as it often takes individual effort to sustain it as well.
I am sure that the soviets and chineses 5 year collective plans of the 50's, 60's and 70's were well intentioned as they were based on "doing things together" but they hardly were successful when it came to the common good.
Sorry, all obama wants to do is minimize the real driving force of innovation by trying to tie it into sustainability. A really apples to oranges comparison.
You want to see how bad government can screw anything up, try to buy or sell a house even in the old fashioned way of good credit, 20% down, etc. There are not dozens more people involved in the process. Thanks to Obama administration regulations to try to make us all believe it is the banks fault the economy crashed on homes. There are QC steps, something like clearing houses, added to all steps of getting a mortage. The banks can't directly order an appraisal of the house being bought. They have to call the QC agency who calls and appraiser, get the appraisal, approves it or not then sends it to the bank loan officer. There are other such new cross check outfits for credit investigation and many other parts of the mortage granting process. So, normal bill paying people with good credit can have thier closing dates moved 3 - 4 - 5, even 6 times and all thier preparations totally screwed up thanks to Obama who at the same time is forcing banks to practically give foreclosed houses to his "constituents". Then he has the gonads to talk "fair" when ranting about taxing the rich. Such a bunch of ^%$)(*&!
Job1, terrific post and thanks for posting Romney's quote. Mr. Etch-a-Sketch has no trouble ignoring what he himself has said not just on July 12, 2012, but also at the 2002 Olympics.
DB Akron, where in President Obama's words does he say you are "dependent on Government"? Where in Romney's quote does he say you are "not dependent on Government"? They both said the same thing, DB, and you know it but, of course, that doesn't fit your narrative. Why, conservatives never rely on Government except for those things like public education, fire and police, garbage collective, snow removal, roads and bridges, paved streets and don't forget all those "tax payer funded" incentives to those private business folks who claim they did it all on their own without any "gubmint" help.
Shakinghead, hate to break it to you but for decades, there have been many, many people involved in selling/buying a home; President Obama had nothing to do with it. However, his policies are making loan companies state in human-speak speak what the buyer is actually signing on the bottom line and agreeing to.
The United States has enormous structural problems that must first be addressed before any underlying problems can effectively be resolved. Our trade deficit with China and burdensome oil imports account for a disproportionally large percentage of our total deficit. Functionally, our economy cannot grow and create enough jobs without a regime change in Washington, D.C. Conservatives like to complain that Barack Obama is the most liberal president we've ever had, a closet Marxist who's determined to turn America into a socialist hell and that his despotic socialist agenda is the big lie of the twentieth century. What is evident is that his policies and programs have been the functional equivalent of a waging war on America, the Catholic Church, US Christians, success, small business and American socioeconomic thinking!
The once proud Democratic party literally been hijacked by socialists whose actions make it appear as if they are hell bent on destroying capitalism. All principled members of the democratic party would therefore be well advised to abandon Obama's candidacy and their party line vote for the long term good of our country! Retreat and return to fight another day when the Democratic party can submit a candidate who is willing to uphold traditional American values rather than to attempt to destroy the country from within. Then, once regime change in Washington, D.C. has been achieved, we can reestablish focus on structural change including an aggressive multipronged movement toward energy independence focusing on both renewable energy sources and domestic oil, curb health care mandates and costs induced by ObamaCare, examine and modify overreaching business regulations and move to reduce our trade imbalance with China.
.Obama the promise BREAKER!! Equals a LIAR!!! BIG EMBARRASSMENT to the USA!!!
Obama’s promise that his healthcare proposals would “never be purchased with [a] tax increase on middle-class families.” The SUPREME COURT & JUSTICE DEPT say it is a TAX!!! .Attack on the middle Class! Taxation by misrepresentation
…….…NOW Obama wants to invade Syria and Iran!!!
..mr. American businessman..YOU DID NOT MAKE THAT!! It was stolen from the back of the worker---PURE MARXISM!!
Remember these?
THE OBAMA CHRONICLES:
“I promise 100% transparency in my administration.”.
“I promise NO NEW TAXES on a family making less than $250K a year.”.
“I will allow 5 days of public comment before I sign any bills.”.
“I will remove earmarks from PORK projects before I sign any bill.”.
“I will end Income Tax for seniors making less than $50K a year.”.
"I will bring ALL of our troops home within ONE year."
“I’ll put the Health Care negotiations on CSPAN so everyone can see who is at the table!”.
“I’ll have no lobbyists in my administration."
"I'll close Guantanamo."
"I'll resign if I don't cut the deficit in half by the end of four years."
"I'll unite the people of this great country."
“The TROOPS will be home for CHRISTMAS.” WHY ARE MORE LEAVING EVERYDAY???? AND DYING every day…
NOW Obama invokes Executive Privilege( as a Sen. called it’s use a RUSE!) for Holder on GUN SMUGGLING and killing US Agent Brain Terry!!! That only applies if Obama was part of it!! Obama & Holder should be on trial for giving Machine Guns to the Mexican Drug cartels!!
BETTER KNOWN AS LIES.
Fool me once shame on YOU!
Fool me twice shame on ME!
Border Joe---Delusional
Nothing in your post is factual but the most egregious case of lying is stating that the President wants to invade Syria and Iran.
That would be John McCain and Lindsey Graham!
Now there!
uhmm... the current TCP/IP protocol used for device communication was created by DARPA, part of the US Department of Defense; hence, government. Other packet exchange protocols that were used at the beginnings of the internet were developed the the the UK government, and the French government. Access to the network was expanded by the National Science Foundation (i.e. government).
Saying that the internet was not helped by government would be like saying you were conceived without any help from your mother.
Shaking my head-2479300
I'm afraid the govt actually did invent the internet (but not that lying sack of crap Al Gore)...... DARPA under the Dept of Defense created it as a way to link their mainframes... and they invented the TCP/IP protocol suite along the way... of course private industry has taken the primitive building blocks and grown them to many orders of magnitude above the original scheme... in which ecommerce is a relatively recent appearance...
Small Minded Etch-a-Sketch. Mitt Romney became visibly smaller last week when he took President Obama's words completely out of context to cheers from the crowd and THEN had the audacity to repeat almost exactly what President Obama had said about not getting somewhere all by oneself without help somewhere along the line. Romney made that same assertion in 2002 telling the Olympic athletes they did not achieve their success by themselves but President Obama making such an assertion became an attack ad by the Romney liar extraordinaire. Indeed, Romney sunk to a new level of low last week, but maybe that is because he built his campaign on quick sand.
Mitt Romney, "You People" Stop Picking on Me. Watching Mitt Romney daily state lies about President Obama on just about everything should come as no surprise to anyone. During the primaries, Romney's ads were nearly all negative attacks on his challengers. Watching Mitt Romney daily tell lies about his own record, his own version of today's views as a"well-oiled weather-vane". Romney never met a position he didn't like or adopt at some point in his attempts to win elected office. Didn't matter if it required a gigantic flip flop; he'd say whatever needed saying to those he wanted to vote for him. Negative lies needed, Romney went for the Gold.
Yet when the tables are turned on Mr. Etch-a-Sketch, he cries foul. He gets all huffed up and actually makes an appearance on a station other than FOX to express his huffed-up-ness or sends Ann out to defend him. He says it's not fair to make those claims about out-sourcing jobs--even though he did it. It isn't fair to attack his vulture-capitalism efforts at Bain Capital, even though it is true--Mitt purposely bankrupted profitable companies. It isn't fair to point out that he has NOT released 12 years of his taxes--a precedent established by his own father. It isn't fair to point out that Mitt has millions stashed in off-shore tax havens like Switzerland, Bermuda, the Cayman Islands. Waaaaaaa, waaaaaa, waaaaaa. Cry baby, Mitt.
Whether his target was Newt Gingrich or Rick Santorum or now, President Obama, Mitt Romney has no problem telling lies daily, running ads filled with distortion, words out of context and outright nonsense in an effort to defeat whoever dares get in his way. Trouble is, Romney is a cry-baby, he cannot take a counter punch. When the ads or words said about him speak the truth about what Bain Capital is or show how Etch-a-Sketch has flip flopped on every issue, he is offended, he gets all huffed up. Never mind that Mitt Romney would not recognize truth if it wore a huge sign and introduced itself.
Romney believes he is above everyone else, sits on a higher chair, believes what many believe that money will buy you friends, that millions buys him what he could not achieve without the millions--likability and respect--neither of which can be bought but Mitt thinks they can be if one acquires enough. Therefore, how dare "you people" pick on him.
So true Jody. Willard is SO DAMN GOOD AT LYING!!!
OBAMA /BIDEN 2012---STILL CLEANING UP BUSH'S MESS
OMG, a politician that lies?
Job1 - didn't obama say that if he couldn't "clean it up" after 3 years HE DIDN'T DESERVE TO BE PRESIDENT AGAIN FOR A SECOND TERM? haha
Obama is to blame for the economy, according to yet another poll. Just more bad news for Obama, the blame game and parade of excuses is failing just like his policies.
More than a third of likely voters -- 34 percent -- fault President Barack Obama most for the country’s lethargic economy over the past few years, making him the top culprit in a new poll from The Hill.
And a 53 percent majority of respondents in the poll say Obama has taken the wrong actions on the economy, slowing it down, while just 42 percent say he has taken the correct actions to revive the economy.
Even worse for Obama, 37 percent of independents, who will likely determine the election’s outcome, blame him for the nation's dire economic straits. Another 29 percent blame Congress, 20 percent blame financial institutions and corporations, and 9 percent blame Bush.
Overall, after Obama, 23 percent of the respondents blame Congress the most, 20 percent blame financial institutions and corporations, and 18 percent blame former President George W. Bush.
Among independents, 59 percent say Obama has done the wrong things for the economy, while 36 percent say he’s done the right things.
True, Ask, but that was before he found out the Repubs would do anything to protect their rich friends and bigots.
weemee - so do you think he'll be able to do it this time? What's the difference?
Oblamo owns the struggling economy and the towering addl debt he's created... never mind the dead border patrol agent... or the Billion$ in green company loans to his friends... or doubled gas prices... or higher food prices... one the 50% increase in SNAP recipients... or the Obamacare TAXes....
Obama can NOT run on his sorry record!!
[I]f you don't have any fresh ideas, then you use stale tactics to scare the voters. If you don't have a record to run on, then you paint your opponent as someone people should run from." That is what Barack Obama said when he accepted his party's presidential nomination in 2008. Four years later, it reads like a prophetic description of his re-election campaign.
See story in washingtonexaminer.com
The newest research from Nate has it as:
“Obama chance of winning 66.9% Romney 33.1%”
July 24, 2012
This tight one is starting to open up a little bit more in favor of Obama. So, my current Projection: (Currently the states that will continue to play the biggest in November are Michigan, Ohio, Virginia, and Florida and Wisconsin. For now these states are remaining in the toss up status, while leaning toward Obama. However, if the election were held today, Obama would win the general.
The key months for this race are going to be September and October. And as far as the debates, Romney most likely will have a problem in this area, along with his lack of availability to the press/media.
Another issue that will hurt Romney is the battle being waged by the President to raise the taxes on folks earning more than $250,000 a year. This is something that the majority of Americans are for and Romney is against.
For now the biggest problem for Romany is his record at Bain and the fact that he is hiding something with his failure to release his tax returns.
The new projected election out come totals are:
Projected Winner Obama 293
Projected Loser Romney 245
Job1 - your posts says Romney doesn't want to RAISE taxes on the rich, but Obama is saying that Romney wants to CUT taxes for the rich. what do you think? Is obama playing with the truth a little to make Romney look bad?
Honestly, Ask, Romney has said he wants to lower taxes on the rich. Better study the facts.
Doesn't he want to lower them for everyone? With the rich still paying the highest rates?
My point is that Obama makes it sound like Romney just wants to lower taxes for rich people. People that don't really know the plans are going to hear this and think that Romney litterally just wants to cuts rates only for rich people, because Romney only cares about the rich and is trying to make them richer, or something.
If Obama was NOT playing with the numbers, he would have said - Romney proposes tax cuts across the board, but I think that is a bad idea. If he had said this, though, the people making NOT a lot of money would realize the Romney would actually be giving them a tax cut, not Obama. PLUS, all of the "non-wealthy" people with small stock gains or dividends will actually be receiving a tax INCREASE under Obama.
Willard doesn't want to raise taxes on the rich. So, what the President has said is also true. Willard doesn't want to raise taxes on the rich and he Willard, also want's to add additional tax cuts for the Rich. In this case both statements by myself and the President are true.
Guess who would pay for these cuts?
RCP shows the margin a little wider, 332 to 206 in favor of the President. The electorate sees Rombot as the blast from the past that comes in last. Rombot lost to the loser of the 2008 contest and then couldn't be Veep because of that nasty tax conundrum that is so vexatious. Also...
Rombot.Has.Nothing.
Ask.........Romney supports the Ryan bill which gives himself over $700,000 tax break while making middle class and poor pick up the tab for the tax breaks going to the rich. Raises taxes on middle class and poor, and cuts social programs like food stamps on the starving poor that republicans caused with the crashing of the economy.
starsailing - (not trying to argue) can you explain what you mean?
ask...I posted this below. Even the Catholic church denounced the Ryan plan for what it was doing to middle class and poor. Raising taxes and cutting social programs for the middle class and poor to pay for more tax breaks for Romney and the rich.
From: dpcc.sen.gov Romney supports this disaster Ryan plan.
Republicans have claimed that their tax plan would renew the expiring Bush tax cuts and reduce tax rates even further without increasing the deficit, all by getting rid of unspecified "loopholes" in the tax code. But a new analysis by the Joint Economic Committee (JEC) shows that Republican math simply doesn't add up. The new JEC report shows that the Republican tax plan would actually necessitate a $1,300 tax increase on average middle-class families to pay for a tax cut of over $285,000 for each millionaire.
The Republican tax plan would cost a total of $10 trillion - $5.4 trillion to extend the expiring Bush tax cuts, and according to the Tax Policy Center an additional $4.6 trillion to lower the top tax rate to 25%. Republicans have refused to name any of the specific "loopholes" they would repeal to cover the huge price tag of lowering taxes on the rich, and the JEC report explains why. In order to make their tax plan revenue neutral, Republicans would have to eliminate nearly every deduction and credit in the tax code, including those that mainly benefit middle-class families.
JEC's report shows that because Republicans would do away with middle class deductions, even with lower tax rates the Republican plan would amount to a net middle class tax increase.
The American people overwhelmingly oppose giving millionaires more tax breaks at the expense of the middle class. Republicans should work with Democrats to pay down our deficit in a balanced way that will create jobs here in America and ask the wealthiest to pay their fair share again.
Job 1
As my weekly compilation
Using only Likely Voter Polls. Obama 308, Romney 244 in the likely voter polls with the two tied in Iowa. This week Obama jumped in front in both Florida and Virginia, But in both those states late week polls were showing this to be short lived. AND being some of the larger margins in favour of Obama are hitting the 60 Day cut-off I have, This lead is not going to stay.
Romney appears to be closing gaps in in Colorado, Maine, Minnesota, Massachussets, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, New Mexico, Washington. If another poll comes in favorable to Obama Ohio Flips to Obama.
Using only Registered Voter polls. Obama 347, Romney 191.
askaboutit...
I noticed that obama is reverting back to his top down argument that it doesn't work. Interesting that obama has his own top down plan. The right wants it done voluntarily with market forces and obama wants to force it by taxing small business owners and anyone earning over $250k. I have little doubt that the wealthy have the discretionary income to absorb higher taxes, but thinking that the government can efficiently do it makes me wonder what type of kool-aid the left driinks.
You are right in one aspect, reagans and oneils tax reform act of 1986 was for personal cuts across the board as was the bush2 cuts and apparently romneys as well. I would bet that even JFK's tax reform (carried thru by LBJ) was also across the board.
Ask, Romney claims the Ryan Budget is "marvelous" and that budget adds trillions more the the deficit and the debt at the expense of the middle class and throws the poor under the bus--don't forget Romney said he wasn't worried about the very poor, they have safety nets ignoring that the Ryan Budget pulls the safety net from under them. Romney doesn't want to raise taxes on the wealthy but his 50-some point plan lowers them on the wealthy and raises them on those making under $100K. Romney wants to eliminate capital gains--well, guess where Mitt earns his $57,000 per day--capital gains so then Mitt can pay ZERO taxes. Romney wants to eliminate the estate tax yet the only people who ever pay estate taxes are those who have multi-million/billions, a very tiny percentage of the population.
Job1...
As the incumbant, obama should be showing better numbers, yet the movers and shakers put the race as too close to call. Looks like the only polls that will matter will be that on nov 6, 2012.
One and done 2012...OMG!
Jody, at least the house has passed a plan, where is the senates and where is the presidents insistence that a budget be passed per the 1974 budget act?
Regardless of warts, it is very hard to have any reconciliation without both congressional houses presenting a plan.
Ya - I hadn't read that report. Interesting...
Also, I thought Romney's plan was to cut all rates? Is he actually in favor of putting the Ryan budget in place? Or did he just say that he liked it?
I am totally in favor of both higher taxes for rich people, and forcing poorer people to actually pay taxes. But I am NOT in favor of bs lines (in this case from Obama) only mentioning that Romney would like to cut taxes for the rich (as opposed to (if romney does want to cut them across the board) everyone, including the middle class).
Now, if he is in favor of actually implementing the ryan budget, instead of that 20% decrease across the board (or whatever it is) and this report is actually correct, that's different, I guess.
Also, there will be a lot of middle class people who have their taxes increased due to Obama's new 3.8% tax.
starsailing, your comments are laughable, yeah it's all the republicans fault, the Democrats are faultless grow up, time to move out of your mothers basement. There is plenty of blame to go around. Whether Obama or Mitt get elected nothing will get done unless Congress works together, but people like you will see to it that nothing gets done. Good job!
american, the House passed an absurd budget and they knew it but, hey, conservatives like you fall for it every time. It is the House's responsibility to pass a budget first. The GOPTP knew their budget was ridiculous but then ridiculous seems to be the GOPTP House's motto these days.
Put the blame where the blame belongs--on the GOPTP House; maybe if they put together a reasonable budget and not one filled with anti-women's health tidbits, defunding food aid for the poor, cutting unemployment benefits while many are still unemployed as a result of the GOP's failed policies and ineptidude and fiscal IRRESPONSIBILITY from 2001 through 2008 , then the Senate would act.
askabout, Romney said he wants the Ryan Budget on his desk day one. I'd say he supports it.
Jody - so what was it that I was thinking about? (Romney wanting to cut tax rates 20% across the board... was that just wrong? or before the ryan bill/after?)
Jody
Obama's budget were more absurd, seeing in the past 2 years only a handful of Democrats voted for them in the house and No Senator voted for them in the Senate
Romney thinks the budget is a starting point.
The Ryan budget attempts to deal with Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. This is a bold thing to do considering the only acceptable to Democrats is government control, meaning Democrat Control.
The first thing to do to control costs is to set a budget. The Second, is to stick to the budget. Being the democrats have not proposed ANY Budget since Fiscal 2009, they disqualify themselves from being fiscally responsible.
And as far as I'm concerned since if they continue to refuse to offer solutions, and only offer criticizms that appear to be distortions, they should be turned out of office. This is not the time to act like a child, it's time to find solutions.
wlee......your typical rt wing response to facts.... more name calling. You are not laughing, you are worried about your strawman Mittster Romney.
Failing by hiring 17 of his 24 advisors from Bush Cheney Rove Norquist team.
Fail team from not killing Bin Laden.
Fail Team from starting Afagan war (unfunded) and diverting resources to Iraq.
Fail Team that lied U.S. into Iraq war for war profit no bid contracts to Cheney company. So Bush could be "rememebered as a war President. War unfunded also. Thousands of Americans killed and dying of their wounds from Bush Cabinet lies. Billioions in vet care needed from survivors.
Fail Team that had Bush fly past Hurricane Katrina and go to McCain to deliver birthday cake and more campaigning while victims died and lost everything.
Fail Team that crashed the economy so bad everyone in the nation suffered except Romney, Rove, Norquist and the rich banksters and wallstreeters.
14 repubs caught pledging on the night Obama took office to vote against every bill that would help the economy, "like the Taliban" they said, take the economy down.
Yeah...wlee..you are laughing in your pants, you think it is a wonderful warm feeling, others view it as a wet spot on a pair of pants!
Vote President Obama/Biden 2012
DB...the Ryan plan simply gives the rich like Romney more tax breaks and to pay for those tax breaks they raise taxes on poor and middle class and cut needed social programs like FOOD STAMPS! The Ryan Plan KILLS Social Security. The Ryan plan KILLS medicare. The catholic church denounced the plan to little catholic boy Paul Ryan last month, shaming him nationally for helping only the rich.
So take food out of children's mouths and give it to Romney to hide offshore?.....Yep the Ryan Plan , for a worse tomorrow today!
Obama/Biden 2012
The Ryan plan attempts to "deal with" Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid in the same way the Mafia "deals with" people who don't pay their protection money...by making them sleep with the fishes.
Obama is all talk and nothing else is his biggest problem....he needs to go in November vote him out.
And like the winds of change, each election, the American public thinks that by changing the President it will change the person's situation. It won't. In psychology, we call it an external locus of control...thinking that the situation and other people control what happens to you. It is sad.
Remember Willard Romney, IS DAMN GOOD AT LYING!
OBAMA /BIDEN 2012---STILL CLEANING UP BUSH'S MESS!!!
Obama had a big fundraiser last night, according to ABC news:
SAN FRANCISCO - At an exclusive re-election fundraiser tonight, President Obama hobnobbed with 60 of his wealthiest supporters, including two figures at the center of the Solyndra loan controversy. Both Steve Westley and Matt Rogers were spotted by White House print pool reporter Darren Samuelsohn of Politico at the Piedmont, Calif., home of Quinn Delaney and Wayne Jordan, who were hosting the $35,800-a-head event.
Republicans have seized on Obama's ties to Westly and Rogers - and the Solyndra loan - as part of their case that the president engages in "crony capitalism."
Obama is jsut trying to get that 500 Million loan back, $38,500 at a time!
Dem4Freedom, "Republicans have seized on Obama's ties to Westly and Rogers...." yet Romney is holding a London fundraiser with the crowd under investigation and indictment in the Libor scandal. The difference is that Solyndra became under George W. Bush all of which was legal; the crowd Romney's smoozing is likely to be found criminal. It is a stupid move by the GOP to bring this up because you can bet President Obama's Team will be quick to point out Romney's London fundraiser hob-nobbing with the Libor scandal crowd.
Dem4freedom...
Unfortunately it is going into his pocket, not back to the taxpayers.
ROMNEY AND ? 2012
And you think Romney is any different? Please...
american, were taxpayers reimbursed for the many failures during the initial space program efforts? Have taxpayers been reimbursed for Reagan's "Star Wars" which has yet to have one success? Or do you only whine when it suits you? Never mind, I know the last question describes you and many other conservatives.
Jody, just another Liberal excuse, why can't you people just admit Obama is just as bad as Bush, take some responsibility for once in your life. Scandals unemployment, wars, no budget, broken promises, sounds a lot like when Bush was President.
Troy
You have a point. Both Obama and the democratic controlled Senate need to go. A free market economy can only handle so many taxes that are turned around to give to people who support the elected government.
The Republicans in the House kept their word. They did not add earmarks, and have passed spending cuts. Contrary to some bitter partisans, they have compromised with the Democrats, especially on the $100 Billion in cuts where they took half of those cuts on 1/6 of the budget.
It is Reid in the Senate who refuses to look at 41 bills passed in the house proposing assorted cuts in tarriffs or regulations that would allow a number of sectors in industry to compete with foreign manufacturers without relocating to another country.
It is Reid who has not allowed one Senate Budget proposal to see the light of day and sat on all three budgets passed by the Republican Senate.
The only reason the Obama Proposed budgets even hit the Senate floor was a parliamentary maneuver by Minority Leader McConnell. Both fiscal 2012 & Fiscal 2013 were voted down unanimously.
Reid preferrs the Pelosi route of passing continuing resolutions, so they can sneak in spending to pay off their supporters.
I'm not a fan of a lot of republicans, because they have a tendency to accept bad compromises with the Democrats. There are still about 6 republican Senators consistently compromise at the most inopportune time in an inappropriate way. One is retiring, and two got dumped during the primaries. One we are stuck with for 4 more years, but in his last election his republican opponent was worse news than he is and continually will be.
wlee....Why then did Romney hire 17 of 24 of Bush advisors?...Just to piss you off?
Your mud slinging statements are hollow and baseless. Like Romney the strawman...nothing to it.
Tax rates are the lowest they've been since the Eisenhower Administration...how much lower do they have to be for us to have a "free market."
This election, I will only vote for the candidate with integrity; the guy who does the least amount of finger-pointing and fear-mongering. I no longer care about political parties. That has gotten us nowhere in 50 years. It is time for this country to have some character (not be a character). It is time for the President, whoever that is going to be, to care about the average person other than when at some pre-election town hall meeting.
You're only voting for the candidate with integrity.
Must mean you're going to write in my name........(lol)
I am voting for President Obama also, Troy. He has proved his integrity and his steadiness under pressure over these last three years, while Romney is an unknown entity, and kind of secretive, to boot.
I am writing my hubby's name in. Anyone who can take care of me, with all my health issuses and still work 8 hours deserves my vote!
Obama has contradicted Obama so many times that the question of his integrity is not settled. He has flip-flopped on so many issues while liberals accuse his opponent of changing positions. LOL !
The only thing Obama has really proven is his total incompetence of handling the financial matters of this country. The national debt has risen rapidly in his first 3.5 years .... and his administration has yet to sign a budget ! When the U.S. is THAT deep in debt, the President MUST HAVE A PLAN !
Obama has no budget, no plan and no clue !
If congressmen would just do their jobs and give him one maybe.
Amy, please, Solyndra,Fast and Furious, White House Leaks, kept the Patriot Act, Gitmo, kept rendition,unemployment still above 8%, no budget, increased debt ceiling after blasting Bush for doing the same thing. Integrity, give me a break.
Whats ina name, The House has given him a budget, but Harry Reid will not allow it up for consideration. Obama's tax proposals are so bad that he has yet to receive ONE SINGLE VOTE FROM WITHIN HIS OWN PARTY !
Instead of providing real leadership (something needed in this financial area), Obama has just walked away content for our country to exist with periodic demands for increasing the national debt limit.
A "limit" or ceiling means absolutely nothing if it is being constantly raised. It simply proves Obama does not have the knowledge or the will to have our country operate within a realistic budget proposal ... perhaps both !
What's in a name. Republicans have sent 3 budgets to the Senate where Democratic Majority Leader Reid has burried them on the committee shelf and refuses to even bring any budget to the floor. The only budgets to see the floor in the last 3 years has been Obama's proposed 2012 & 2013 budgets because Republican Minority Leader was able to maneuvered them to the floor where were voted down unanimously.
No matter whose fault it is, you can't blame his administration (the executive) for not signing a budget that has not been provided by the legislative (as a whole).
So if Party A is going to get into a contract with Party B and tells him to bring his contract. Party B shows up with a contract full of clauses that favor it heavily, but go completely against the interests of Party A. So Party A declines the contract and offers its own. The contract offered by Party A is full of clauses that favor it heavily, but go completely against the interests of Party B.
And that is in short what is happening in congress and nobody wants to give and inch = we-the-people are effed.
Yeah.....change the tone back to the gutter where HE put it earlier. From his own mouth back in 2008.........It's what a candidate does when he has no record to run on.
He has a record to run on. It's called blame Bush (still, 4 years later), blame the party of "no" (sorry, we don't live in a dictatorship) and blame the policies of the Republicans for our current state of affairs (the Democrats had the house and senate when Bush left office and the first 2 years of Obama's reign of power).
Latest Gallop Poll had 34% blaming Obama for bad economy..........higher than Congress or Bush.
1Hiram, please do not post factual information on this board. You will be attacked by the libs.
I give credit to President Obama for bringing us back from the brink of Depression in 2009, saving the auto industry and keeping public workers employed when states were poised to lay them off.
As far as "blaming" President Obama for the slow recovery, I dunno, I think the "job creators" in the corporate world have something to do with that. I think they are holding the nation hostage until they get what they want - permanent tax cuts for the wealthiest. How else do you explain why the Fortune 500 are setting record profits, while refusing to hire AND contributing to the Republican Party?
!Hiram....Uh don't think so.
6-14-12 Gallop poll said 68 % of all people blamed Bush for the economy mess. Always at about 70% since 2009.
In the end, moderates and independents of average Middle Class are going to vote for the man who most represents THEIR interests. The US is facing a dangerous situation, not because of the hardship of a weakened economy for nearly a decade now. Because of the huge drain on our tax dollars to help the 1% stay wealthy and the Corporate Nanny State continue to be tax addicts.
We've tried it the way neoconartists wanted it. We ended 2008 with a disastrous Financial Meltdown that a Harvard MBA president should and could have avoided with a little more fiscal restraint and a whole lot less of his army of capitalist cronies.
A man who eats himself to death IS always to blame for his own lack of self-discipline. A party and ideology that feeds on narcissism is no different. They've been feeding at the trough of affluence so long, they can no longer imagine what hardship is like. The hardship they thrust on everyone but themselves. Now, as they edge closer and closer to that line between affluence and hardship, the greediest among us are turning cannibal ready to devour their young if needs must to continue to live large.
There is NO American who must own a mansion, a fleet of luxury cars and their own private jets. There simply is no law in this country that demands the 99% pull up the slack for the 1% and Big Business tax subsidy addicts.
Americans have lived through hard times before and come out of it unscathed but wiser. Unless we all stop enabling affluenza to become the crippling US disease it's become, we not only lose our government but our futures and that of our children.
1Hiriam...Posts like yours are so easy to shoot down..How many al Qaeda leaders did RoMONEY take down? How much foreign policy is RoMONEY responsible for? How many businesses did RoMONEY save and jobs with it that equal the 2 million this president has saved?
Oh gee...look at all the jealous little bois out there bashing a super achiever worker for his people. That's the blessing of having a community organizer...he's spent the last 3 1/2 years organizing what was left of the country under the Republican neoconartists' regime of 8 years. And like all community organizers, this president is more than up to the task which only makes some American men and women green with envy. He comes from humble roots...not the McMommies and McDaddies, Daycare Generation of coddled affluent brats.
The joke is that when you look back at who the Republicans put out there...not a single one wasn't in some way a failure...start with Nixon...forced to resign...Reagan...tax credits for the rich and ended his presidency with a recession...a very telling sign of presidential failure...no one to blame but the president with the first 4 years under his belt...This applies also to George HW Bush, a one-termer with a recession and his son.
Most of us are fed up with the neurotic right wing bashers in this country. This isn't the Confederate Dogpatch where nothing changes except the callouses on the lazy Lil Abner butts and where they think green energy is watching Daisy Mae's bazongas shift in the wind.
ewent, lets look at your President, no budget, unemployment over 8%, scandal after scandal, says one thing then does another, raised the debt 5 trillion, first time credit rating dropped, people in poverty highest since the 60's, so what exactly has Obama done
@wylee-950886 #9.8: No budget, and few jobs huh? What role did the republican Congress play in that sh^t? What role did the republican Congress play in the credit rating downgrade? 5 trillion debt? A 50 trillion dollar housing bubble, wall street bank bubbles, unfunded wars, tax cuts for the wealthy, joblessness, etc. which decreased the hell out of revenues, and all happened on Bush's watch, have ant effect on your claims? Scandal after scandal? What scandals? Bullsh^t! That's always the problem with strewing 100 lbs of bullsh^t from a 20 lb capacity paper poke. End up spilling it all over yourself.
Was by The Hill not Gallop........sorry!!!
http://hotair.com/archives/2012/07/23/new-poll-shows-obama-getting-the-most-blame-for-the-bad-economy/
RIP, Dr. Sally Ride, first American woman in space.
Fascinating...there are those in this country who thought you were good enough to go into space but not good enough to marry your partner of 27 years.
A sad loss to a horrible disease. Thoughts and prayers to Sally's family and friends.
Da Noid -
Thanks for your comment. I don't often quote stuff from HuffPo, but I thought their article on this has a lot to say:
"While the news of her death at the age of 61 after a 17-month battle with cancer is immensely sad, and while it would have been terrific if she came out as gay while alive, Ride's posthumous coming out is a wonderful gift to America's youth. And it's what we needed right now. If astronauts are among the ultimate heroes and examples of American ingenuity, fortitude and bravery, then with that one line in her obituary -- survived by "Tam O'Shaughnessy, her partner of 27 years" -- Sally Ride dispeled all the ugliness foisted on this country in recent weeks by the Boy Scouts of America, Chick-Fil-A and Jennifer Carroll, Florida's GOP lieutenant governor, who, denying charges that she had sex with another woman in her office, claimed women who look like her are not involved in same-sex relationships (and refuses to apologize).
Yes, Lt. Governor Carroll, you are right. With your bigotry and cowardice, you are are not what a lesbian looks like.
This is what a lesbian looks like: Sally Ride: physicist; author of seven science books for children; member of the space shuttle Challenger crew; member of the President's Committee of Advisors on Science and Technology; director of the California Science Institute; inductee into the National Women's Hall of Fame, the California Hall of Fame, the Aviation Hall of Fame, and the Astronaut Hall of Fame; recipient of the Jefferson Award for Public Service, the von Braun Award, the Lindbergh Eagle, the NCAA's Theodore Roosevelt Award, and the NASA Space Flight Medal (twice)."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michelangelo-signorile/sally-ride-american-hero_b_1697871.html
Thanks to Sally Ride for all the girls she inspired to study math and science and to reach for the stars.
I couldn't believe three journalist-contestants couldn't identify Sally Ride's picture in a recent Jeopardy game. I'm not much on trivia but even I know Sally Ride was the first female Amrerican astronaut. She was such an inspiration to young women, especially those interested in science. Rest in Peace.
"Among independents, 59 percent say Obama has done the wrong things for the economy, while 36 percent say he’s done the right things."
Read more on Newsmax.com: Hill Poll: Voters Blame Obama Most for Dire Economy
Obama will be losing chunks of voters that previously voted for him because he is offering no viable solutions, Just more of the same. And we have had enough. And Mr. Obama's campaign has now been reduced to attacks on Romney because voters are rejecting his policies and practices.At some point he will be forced to lay out the SPECIFICS of his plan (you wouold think he would have already done that given that he has had over 31/2 years to work on it). And if those specifics are anything like his fourth proposed budget his campaign will go down in flames.
King: LOL
...speaking of which, KingK, when will Mr. Romney lay out HIS specifics?
The public also held Ronald Reagan responsible for the 10% unemployment we saw during his first term. Folks forget that Reagan's approval rating sank to 35% during that time.
Voters "blame" President Obama, for sure, but they also recognize his many successes. I think he has performed brilliantly in his job.
Amy, brilliantly, you have such low expectations. Ask the unemployed, sand all those new people on food stamps. Brilliantly really?
The last thing Obama should do is run on his vision for the country. Most Americans are not ready to give 100% service to the government and the presidents vision.
Common Man...Americans of the Middle Class are not ready to become a corporate serfdom either. If Big Businesses don't get off our tax backs and soon, they won't be so big anymore. A country whose biggest businesses can't survive without help from taxpayers is not a democracy. And No is such a good word ...as in NO we won't continue to hand over our tax dollars to support CEOs affluence.
ewent and no we won't turn over our money to Obama to squander as he pleases
Very odd news cycle. In less than 24 hours we have lost any comment on Romney's mis-characterization of the comments by the minister from Australia, any comment about the VFW's reaction to Obama's speech and we just gloss over Romney's flip-flop in the Kudlow interview - I'm for the assault weapons ban and support the 2nd Amendment. Instead, we have the continued news from the intentional use by Romney misquoting Obama.
Work for it or do without.
Joe66...Fine...Can I work for it and demand not a dime ends up in corporate pockets too? Big bravado in that post...too bad it's total hypocrisy when you consider how few CEO actually break a sweat and how so many don't do without employees, consumers or taxpayers who helped them "build" their little empires. When you are ready to admit that no corporation or CEO built it on his own without a single minute of help from anyone else...let us know.
All this focus on the 1% like they are going to rescue this country from financial ruin. How about collecting money from the 50% of Americans that don't pay taxes? I'm sure they have plenty of money for cell phones, flat screen TVs, and beer. Why do they get a free ride on the entitlement train. I'm tired of working people and the successful getting demonized by the President. Why don't the deadbeats get demonized?
If we were to tax the 50% that do not pay taxes at the 100% rate we would still not raise as much revenue as if we were to tax the 1% at an additional 5% rate.
It's the reason that bank robbers rob banks, because that's where the money is.
It's a question of whether we wish to raise enough revenue to balance the current budget needs, or whether we want to offer only "feel good" political rhetoric that will not resolve anything.
This administration definitely rewards failure and lack of trying and demonizes the successful. Most of the successful are where they are because of long hours working and going to school and sacrificing, while the failures won't even get up off their rears and look for a job. ( I have neighbors that are great examples of the failure category). .
But, in order to stabilize this country, sacrifices are going to have to occur.
That means that those who will sacrifice will have to sacrifice some more, while those that won't sacrifice will have the choice of sacrifice made for them.
So, if you work, yes, to resolve the situation you are going to have to pay more. And, if you are to lazy to work, then to resolve the situation you are going to have your benefits reduced.
If nobody will sacrifice to correct this mess, then the country will just continue to swirl down the toilet until it reaches the sewer.
Currently, that seems to be the course everyone is fine with.
Lloyd you have been debunked with that rant from Fox fake news so many times....That pig doesn't fly.
Repubs crashed economy.
People lost everything, people need food stamps to survive, and they still pay taxes up and down the street, just not on Faux news for fake news.
There simple enough to comprehend? Now pass me your chips and beer!
Lloyd...The 50% who don't pay taxes ARE the 1% richest in the country..Nice try at lies and contortions...Now..If you subtract the number of Americans in this country who are unemployed...8% ...that's the number who are still employed. Only neoconartists try to paint the 8% as a HUGE number...The reality is that during the Great Depression 31% were unemployed. There's one difference between then and now...the Republicans get their fat mouths shut and cooperated with FDR and in fact, hustled him to get the government to create jobs...something todays Republicans would rather put off until they get a GOP president.
If men like Adelson, Rickettes, Rove, the Kochs and the rest of the ritzy titzies can afford to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on RoMONEY's campaign...why aren't they hiring and creating jobs with that money instead? Comes January 2013, the same 50% who pays 6% in taxes like RoMONEY does, will be the first to come with hands outs looking for taxpayer dole yet again.
As I listen to and watch ALL news, how do you know which is so called REAL news and Fake news? You do not. We are all fed what that particular network wants us to believe. So don't believe for a minute that ABC, CBS, CNN, etc. are any less bias.
Many leftylibdem comments are pure horsepukey, such as the Catepillar distortion - a typical cherry-picked, myopic point of view full of anti-corporate hate and ignorance. The Catepillar story is much more detailed and historic than that dimwits cheap attempt at cheerleading the lemmings.
The bottom-line is: YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT. What an insult to small business owners, artists, musicians, patent holders - anybody that has individually accomplished anything. And what arrogance - only a faux intellectual liberal would have the limited vision and pompous ego to say in public - "...people who think they're so smart". BO is projecting! BO THINKS he is smarter than everybody else - he's a Haarrrvarrd man, doncha know. Yeah, he got lots of help to catapult him way over his head...some of it illegal, some of it unethical, some of it pure Chicago corruption. Pundits will be talking about that open window into BO's socialist soul in November as the beginning of the end for the Amateur. Note how BO disingenuously attempts to claim it's taken out of context BUT the context is worse for him. Put the pressure on the Deceptor-In-Chief, squeeze the little pencil-necked worm, and watch his true colors come forth, listen to his false narrative of US history, and his community-organizing, socialist manifesto will crystalize like the cocaine he used to snort.
Remember: YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT!!
ewent must be the greatest ignorance on this board (stupidity?) 50% who don't pay taxes are the 1%? You get the employment numbers by subtracting 8% from ??? what ewent...100%? Like really little dudette, take the hookah out of your mouth long enough to read some facts. Like BO's fund raisers with the rich and famous. Like BO, Pelosi, and Reid's off-shore investments, either directly or in their trust funds. Like the top 49% wage earners paying 99% of federal income taxes.
Of course Obama wants to change the tone. His backers are realizing that their "message" isn't working this time.
His excuses are lame, and time is short. He seems more and more like Joe Biden every day. Just listen to him try to talk without his famous teleprompter, sooner or later, he inserts his foot all the way to the knee.
Time to ditch this disgusting liberal freak and elect a REAL President. Mitt Romney for the next EIGHT YEARS.
King... All we have to do is spend our way out of this mess. Well..blame Bush a little bit more..then spend spend spend. And kill any hope of creating jobs by crushing small businesses nationwide.
There are three courses of action to address the problem:
1) Increase revenue, which means a tax increase, which means cuts in productivity that can hurt an economic recovery.
2) Decrease spending, which means cuts in consumer spending that can hurt an economic recovery.
3) Both increase revenue and decrease spending, which means both sides give politically and an economic recovery still gets hurt.
If people cut spending, demand for products decreases, and business has no incentive to produce goods that will not be consumed. Thus we stagnate again.
If people keep spending, when it comes time to recover increased taxes will prevent business from having the capital to expand and meet increased demand. Thus, we stagnate again.
It's the balance of these two factors which will determine how much the economic recovery gets hurt.
Obviously, I favor a balanced approach.
Romney has NO PLAN whatsoever other than saying he would do away with Planned Parenthood where women get health care on quite a number of health issues. Romney declared WAR on Women with this comment joining the republican WAR on Women theme. The only other plan Romney has is supporting the Ryan plan. Let's take a look at the Ryan plan.
From: dpcc.sen.gov Romney supports this disaster Ryan plan.
Republicans have claimed that their tax plan would renew the expiring Bush tax cuts and reduce tax rates even further without increasing the deficit, all by getting rid of unspecified "loopholes" in the tax code. But a new analysis by the Joint Economic Committee (JEC) shows that Republican math simply doesn't add up. The new JEC report shows that the Republican tax plan would actually necessitate a $1,300 tax increase on average middle-class families to pay for a tax cut of over $285,000 for each millionaire.
The Republican tax plan would cost a total of $10 trillion - $5.4 trillion to extend the expiring Bush tax cuts, and according to the Tax Policy Center an additional $4.6 trillion to lower the top tax rate to 25%. Republicans have refused to name any of the specific "loopholes" they would repeal to cover the huge price tag of lowering taxes on the rich, and the JEC report explains why. In order to make their tax plan revenue neutral, Republicans would have to eliminate nearly every deduction and credit in the tax code, including those that mainly benefit middle-class families.
JEC's report shows that because Republicans would do away with middle class deductions, even with lower tax rates the Republican plan would amount to a net middle class tax increase.
The American people overwhelmingly oppose giving millionaires more tax breaks at the expense of the middle class. Republicans should work with Democrats to pay down our deficit in a balanced way that will create jobs here in America and ask the wealthiest to pay their fair share again.
@starsealing, Here we go aging posting the same $hit over and over.
starsailing, Romney has no plan for doing away with planned parenthood genius, I believe it's cut funding, which is a small amount, planned parenthood would survive so stop with the dramatics. Still spewing the Liberal talking points I see. Just once think for yourself, you might like it.
wlee....Romney specifically said HE WOULD END PLANNED PARENTHOOD. It was a response to Santorums rants on birth control trying to out do each other for the anti abortion wingnuts!
What's the matter Mikey, hate being reminded of the failures of your party?
Hate being reminded what your future failed planned are? Thanks, glad it bothers your conscience, I will keep posting them!
Obama is changing his tone because he bends like a tree in the wind he only says what he thinks the people want to hear. He has no clue how to create jobs all he knows is how to tax and spend that revenue.
A tree bends, but doesn't break.
Compromise is the art of bending and walking away with something rather than nothing.
Since when has compromise become a dirty word in politics?
Since when is it better that neither side of Congress budge an inch from their political party line so that nothing gets accomplished to address this nation's problems?
Maybe both sides of the aisle should learn to be more like the tree, bend but not break?
As I am an independent I feel I truly try to look at both sides. I have found that for the most part, the left only feels that someone has compromised if they change their views to the left. History has shown that the only time that so called compromise has happened is when the right moved to the center. And now the left wants them to move further to the left. Then it will be compromise? I think not. Unless you are far right or far left, you will never please the other group. And I have been told I am wishy washy because "I can't make up my mind". I know my mind. I can truly bend. And because of that, I am in the group that will elect the next president.
Here are the specifics on the Obama economic plan to go along with his big government agenda.
Straight from Mr. Obama's fourth proposed budget. Here is the debt he is proposing to foist on US, our kids and grandchildren:
Table S–15. Federal Government Financing and Debt—Continued(Dollars amounts in billions)Actual 2011 Estimate 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020021 2022
Debt Outstanding, End of Year: Gross Federal debt:Debt issued by Treasury .................................................... 14,737 16,323 17,520 18,471 19,398 20,363 21,298 22,218 23,125 24,051 24,984 25,918
Debt issued by other agencies ........................................... 27 28 28 29 29 28 28 27 27 26 24 22 Total,
gross Federal debt .............................................. 14,764 16,351 17,548 18,500 19,427 20,392 21,326 22,245 23,152 24,077 25,008 25,940
Almost $26 Trillion in debt at 75% of GDP proposed /projected by Mr. Obama. UNSUSTAINABLE! And we all know that in actual practice it will turn out to be a lot higher if Obama is returned to office. And on July 16, on Morning Joe, Mr. Obama's spokesperson, Rep. Jim Clyburn(D), admitted that the Obama plan necessarily will require middle class tax hikes in the years going forward after the election, in order to pay for the deficit spending and debt laden Obama plan. Which is why Mr. Obama is only proposing a ONE YEAR extension of the current middle class tax rates. And please, when you see Mr. Obama on the campaign trail, ask him how much yearly revenue he perceives his proposed tax hike on those making over $200,000.00/$250,000.00 per couple (projected to raise $60 to 70 billion) and how that will even come close to his proposed $1.3 Trillion per year in deficit spending and debt building. Too bad Mr. Obama can't discuss his budget plan with the American people, he knows it will be rejected, so he is busy playing with smoke and mirrors and giving meaningless rhetorical speeches in the hopes of duping voters once again..
I for one want to see the tax cuts expire as voted on by both side. Also let the hit to the military & social programs stand. When a deal is Struck...you stick with your deal. The repb/teas prove Once again the lack of character of my old party.
Big money is spending big $ to influence the elections ( thanks bought and paid for Supreme court, Thomas*) And the small fry amongst us think its for their Benefit.
What a joke that my old party could not find a Better Candidate than Romney...now they have to "over-look" all his flips and Lie's and pandering...SAD.
praysalot, so now you're being played by the other side, what's your point
praysalot....you are spot on in your judgement. Ex Senator from MN Republican David Durenberger last month said the non compromise and insults started with Newt Gingrich back in 1993. He is appalled at the new rt wing republican party of NO. Repubs llike Colin Powell have no republican party any more, it is why he voted for President Obam. Even Reagan would not be allowed ion the republican party anymore! He raised taxes 11 times when he saw his voodoo economics went haywire as predicted!
I think Obama should change the tone every now and then. It can't be relentlessly negative. More highly negative campaigns against Romney will be coming, so why not mix it up now and then? I think there will be an excellent campaign tying him to the bankers.
bob
It wouldn't hurt if BOTH campaigns changed it up now and then. There is so much negative news in the world, be nice to see our leaders spread a little positive.
phine, I hope you are doing well today. From reading some of your posts, you sound a little down about losing your chemo-mate. Try to keep your thoughts positive. Your hubby obviously loves you and you are blessed that way.
Speaking of positive, I would love to hear Obama come out with some new ideas on how he intends to move our country forward... seems to be a VOID there !
Romney wants to decrease taxes for the rich?
Obama forgot to mention he wants to decrease taxes for the poor, too. oops!
Uh, how can you decrease taxes from zero? Oh, I know, give them more rebates for...something, anything, just give me your vote.
He has ZERO business experience...and it is painfully obvious. Except to those who voted for him strictly because of race.
Hmmm.... What was Eisenhower's business experience? Reagan? Kennedy? FDR? Lincoln? Name a great president that was a titan in the private sector before being elected (being born wealthy doesn't count - at least until Mitt starts touting that as what qualifies him for the job).
Personally, I don't want a great business 'leader' to be our president. I don't believe that the skills necessary to be a successful VC or i-banker are the right skills to run the country...
ObamaFail...Get a freakin' clue...We don't elect CEOs...We elect a president. President...as in of a "country"? Not as in president and CEO of a huge national corporation.
You've had at least 3 CEOs in the last 2 decades from the GOP...ALL bar none were losers. Start with GHWB...big time involvement in finance, intelligence and 11 sugar plantations down in Cuba before the revolution. He dumps his son Neil's Silverado S&L bankruptcy on taxpayers. Fast forward to the King Of GOP CEOs...Cheney...Halliburton's best friend for profiting from generous helpings of our tax dollars. Then comes the other loser...GWB...bankrupts not 1 but 2 of his business ventures and dumps it on taxpayers...must be a GOP thing...start a business, bankrupt it and dump the cost on taxpayers. As for RoMONEY...unless he is planning to fudge his tax records, this fox in the corporate henhouse is a liar and a fraud...President Obama submitted over a decade's worth of tax records. RoMONEY? 2 very selective years...What's he hiding?
And you believe the current president has the credentials? I am not for either side. But let's be real. Neither one of them are the greatest. I do believe that we were sold a bill of goods 4 years ago. Are we really better off than we were 4 years ago? I know I'm not. I know my grown children are not.
ewent, not such a good idea to bring up what someone is hiding, there seems to be plenty Obama doesn't want people to see. Why are you people sdo anxious to continue with a failed presidency. Doesn't matter who is in there ,if they failed get them out
ewent, none of them had business experience and look at the hole they helped dig us in over the last 70 years.
When you say Obama has Zero business experience...you mean he does not have any ill-gotten money that he needs to hide offshore like Romney.
Romney the tax dodger, hides his taxes from the people then wants to be their president. THE JOB IS PRESIDENT , NOT KING!
With Romney doing his dog-and-pony show overseas, the part of this story that struck me is that he doesn't want to tell us his ideas regarding dealing with Iran. I guess that's something else "you people" don't need to know. Combine that with his penchant for hanging out with Rice, Bolton and Cheney, and he might be the next coming of Dubya on foreign policy. That should be enough to keep rationale people up at night.
RTFS, and what is Obama's policy with Iran, Syria, Egypt, Israel, the ECONOMY
wlee....as if you care about any policy. What is for sure is Republicans said, "Everyone should like Romney, he has been on both sides of the issue one time or another!"
Flip Flop Mittster Romney, even repubs call him the flip flopper!
Romney Just flip flopped AGAIN! As governer he was against assault rifles, today he said he was not!...flippety flip flop!
Romney is the perfect candidate for the Republicans. He's callous, greedy, shallow, ignorant and clueless. Yes, he's perfect and if you vote for him you get exactly what you deserve.
President Obama represents the complete opposite of Romney will be re-elected.
All I know is that since Obama took office, corporations seem to be doing even better, wall street bankers are doing just as well as before, the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, more people are collecting than ever before, more people are on food stamps than ever before, the government can now legally force us to purchase private products from private companies, we are still in the middle east, we are now involved with ADDINTIONAL countries in the middle east, lobbyists are still in control, there are still super PACs (on both sides)...
I voted for Obama 4 years ago, and taking an unbiassed view of the last 4 years I have to say I didn't get what I was hoping for.
So now that your hopes have been dashed, its time for a change.
Romney would make things worse. He's George Bush all over again.
I think those 8 years kind of sucked, don't you?
Tom - Actually, most of them didn't suck that bad. That's why he was re-elected, I think. Once the collapse happened, that's all that people remember.
Tom - how do you KNOW things will be worse? Seems like a weird thing to say...
Big difference between Bush and Romney. Bush went along with all of the deficit spending and debt building the Dem Congress passed and Obama has continued. Romney is proposing to cut spending.
Tom, not sure what your problem was. It seems it was more on you then on the govt. during the Bush years. I bought a new car, paid off my home. Got rid of all debt. Glad I did because on Jan 21, 2008 the lay offs came. You can blame Bush all you want, but the real blame goes to congress....Pelosi and Reid. Then when democrats had full control, the unemployment went crazy. The country is far worse off today then it was in 2008. That in itself should make you think twice before putting the same person back in charge for another 4 yrs.
You want to make this election about Romney. Typical. This election is about Obamas job performance, and he has a failing grade.
To Tom Yreka, your statements show how truely ignorant you are, you support the Manchurian Candidate the Illegal Kenyan Born Sunni Muslim Communist Half Breed and for your information Obamination is not BLACK/WHITE he is a Half Breed Bastard who has indebted this Country to the tune of $5.6 Trillion dollars and we are at a rate of increasing that to an additional $1.4 Trillion more at the end of this year, for a grand total of $7 TRILLION DOLLARS. This is more than George (puke) Bush who was in office for 8 years and 2 wars that he did not start we were attacked and we responded by a Major Majority (including DemoRATS) voting for war against Iraq. After 3 1/2 years we are still there and Americans are dieing at record numbers but I don't hear a daily dead count with Obamination like I did with Bush. I have never seen an American President bowing like a peasant to Dictators and Murderers like Obamination and calling Americans Arrogant. We Americans saved the entire world in TWO WORLD WARS and we were proud of that not arrogant you punk Communist America haters. We have since Obamination stepped into office a Continuing Longest lasting since the great Depression unemployment of American Workers of 16% and rising, even after two Quantum (pay off unions, banks and wall street) Easement Debacles. Open Borders, Illegal ALIENS and TERRORISTS pouring over our Borders and taking American Jobs at half the pay so his crony's can get cheap labor and destroy our Constitution and Bill of Rights and ignorant people like you Communists are supporting him to ruin the greatest Country ever. One last thing you say George Bush created all that is bad what about 16% unemployment, 13% higher unemployment over the National Average for the absolutely Stupid Blacks who are going to vote for more poverty from Obamination, 46% more people on Welfare, 98% more people on food stamps, 31% higher on goods and services, gasoline 100% higher (he dosen't care if you remember when asked about $5.50 gasoline), 46% higher food prices and a Death Care Bill that passed the DemocRAT Major Majority Senate that didn't even bother to READ IT and yes it does havew a death panel and its already killing the Elderly and its cost has already risen from $500 Billion to over $2.2 Trillion and is only at 40% of what its going to be and a poll was taken of Doctors and Surgeons and 83% are considering a different employment, just think if just 10% left we are already in a shortage of doctors and surgeons, how about waiting 1-2 years for surgery what are your chancews of survival, that is how long people in England and Canada are waiting for their Socialized Medicine. Vote these Communist Bastards out of Congress and the Semi White House.
Dude, there is not enough tinfoil in the world to build a strong enough hat for you.
Steven Coy---I read your post and you call me ignorant? Yikes!!!
Hey Republicans, do you all agree with this nutcase? Answer: Probably.
Mr Coy
Racist much? Although I am not in favor of a continued Obama presidency, I wish not to be associated with a racist a-hole like you. Please take your racists drivel elsewhere. If you want to post on here, stick to the facts. Because your hate spewed racism makes people ignore you and rightfully so.
Thank you! I tell myself all the time to stop reading comments on political matters. I have never heard or seen so much venom in my life. And it comes from both the right and left.
What did you expect? That Obama would fix 40+ years of problems in just 4 years? That isn't how things work. You can't vote for someone and expect them to make everything better. It will take years for the problems america has created for itself to be corrected. All any one president can to is try to set the country on the right path. Which is rather hard when congress won't let you pass any bills that could improve the country because our political system has become centered around having one political party haveing as much power over the country as possible and not about what is best for the country and it's people.
Well democrats; seems the righties are all to hell because the President is making Romney look like a dumb ass, and a liar by attacking the thug. Looking good!