Mitten's is actually going overseas to visit all of his money. Switzerland is so nice this time of year.....

Obama/Biden 2012

What is next? The NRA will continue to own politicians and Washington and the American people will keep losing from the stupidity of our elected officials of BOTH parties

PHINE!!!!!! Hope all is well up in your end of the state!! :-)

So Phine - what are we to make of Feisty's comment about 'Annie's ballet dancing horse?'

Given that the horse and dressage helps her with her MS, such that even Obama's campaign has backed off and apologized for trying to make it an issue, should we castigate Fiesty?

Is this really what we are about - poking fun at people with disabilities?

O would like to hear your thoughts.

New Poll says majority of Americans blame OBAMA for the bad economy!

Not Bush, not the Tea Party, not the Republicans, not congress.

The MAJORITY blame OBAMA!

As if there was ANY doubt to begin with.

The newest research from Nate has it as:

“Obama chance of winning 68.0% Romney 32.0%”

Oh and Phine - what do you make of Obama's decision to go to Auroa?

12 dead, many other injured is a terrible thing, but that happens what, about every 10 days in Obama's hometown of Chicago.

So how come he doesn't ever go to Chicago to console the family members of all the dead and wounded there?

Do you think it could have anything to do with the fact that Chicago already has very strict gun control laws, and therefore there is no political points to be made?

ANd while on the subject Phine - if hundreds die every year in places like Chicago, DC, and NY, all of which already have super strict gun control laws, why do you think enacting more laws will do anything?

In fact, I wonder, have you looked into the homicide rates from guns in England and Wales? Oddly enough, they have the 2nd highest rates, and yet guns are banned.

Tough nut to crack in a society like ours that values freedom and liberty, right?

Job1 you keep clinging to those numbers.

But you do understand what's happening with the economy, yes?

Just think, it was only a couple of months ago you all touted the stimulus as a success. These things tend to take a while to trickle down.

But sadly the economy can come apart pretty quick.

Just think - only a few more days till the end of the month. As you can imagine, the numbers then will be downright bad.

Spanky why are you addressing Phine is this manner?

.

Phine raised the issue of the NRA in her post.

I also value her opinion, and particularly on issues having to do with physical ailments.

Spanky - I knew one of your moronic Republicans would at some point question President Obama's trip to Aurora. It has been the practice, in this country, when there is a devastating event such as the shooting, that our President goes to represent the country.

Bringing up shootings in Chicago makes you look idiotic. There are shooting in every state every week, as you well know.

Your lack of intelligence shines through in this post, as usual. Your lack of understanding of priorities is overwhelming - but not unexpected. Your ignorance in posting such nonsense is so Republican.

Obama/Biden 2012

Bull@!$%# Spanky. LAYOFF women, especially a woman going through what Phine is going through. Find a man to pick on for once.

Dont_carry_it_all - Spanky lost all sense of decency a long time ago. We expect nothing more of him.

Phiney - hope you had a very good weekend.

When Romney is relaxing in his penthouse suite between equestrian events, perhaps he will catch a glimpse or two on TV of the grief of the little people in Colorado as they piece their lives together after the tragic shooting there. The NRA is probably calling Mitt every 15 minutes and instructing him what to say on the subject because it's obvious he really doesn't care what happens to them. Willard holds the American people in the same regard has he does his dog.

Find a man to pick on for once.

Impossible!

The little prick would get his teeth handed to him, if he talked to a man the way he talks to women!

However on an anonymous message board he wears his 'cyber-bully' cape proudly!

Shoot Don't that seems very sexist. But perhaps you can do me this - tell me who is and is not a woman. See, it gets kinda hard to tell here on this anonymous board. Take your own screen name, and even Seeking.

Oh and Don't - last time I check, you are neither the boss of me, nor this board.

Sanity - can you tell me why Obama does not ever even address all the violence his own town?

Or heck - how about the 13 dead and 10 injured yesterday when that one truck carrying 23 illegals crashed?

And look the old gal chimes in and is also sexist. Apparently she does not believe that women can hold their own.

Huh. How sad. Equal treatment ladies.

So do tell Mitts, what are you and Knittenyahoo cooking up in the Mideast? Planning a nuke two on Iran, or better yet, a full scale nuclear assault on our supposed worst enemy ever - the USSR? No doubt you two are busy working on your end-day scenarios so you can usher in the promised 1000 years of golden prosperity you so fully believe. Just what we need in charge of the free world - two extreme religious freaks that live by some crazed moral code outlined in the Torah and Book of Mormon, who will use government to rise up against the Quran. Talk about a doomsday scenario.

Or heck - how about the 13 dead and 10 injured yesterday when that one truck carrying 23 illegals crashed?

Ha - I knew it wouldn't take long. I guess it was a terrible accident when those guns and tear canisters accidentally went off in a crowded movie theater. Those darn safety locks on assault rifles - had they operated correctly, that poor insane crackpot wouldn't have accidentally fired off 100s of rounds of ammunition.

Good to know our resident lounge-lizard lawyer has great reasoning skills. Perhaps you can jump on the defense team of the alleged psycho mass murderer in Colorado.

Unaffiliated. -- Sorry I don't sling insults my posts are available to back that up.

But I see you like to.

Sorry, had to step away for breahting therapy and a little chemo, Spanky, every time i look at my barf bucket I shall think of you. The average American does not need an automatic weapon or large numbers of clips unless they are planning on killing people not Bambie. You are smarter than those stupid posts you came after me with.

Isn't Feisty the one who told another poster to go make love to their "Hillary Blow Up Doll?"

Welcome Back J. Merle Stanley... ;o)

We wouldnt expect less from a newly hatched re-reg...

Shame time if not on their side... lol

Well Spankster..Let's try to put gun ownership into perspective. If the American people want to own firearms then we are going to have to pay the price. And that is the nub of issue. Are the American People willing to tolerate more Auroras and Columbines? And Spanky please don't give me any of your right wing juvenile fantasies like: "If someone had been packing in the theater then the damage would have been minimized." I doubt you have never been shot at.

Spanky -

Are you seriously trying to claim that the NRA doesn't own any politicians? And do you have the solution to the violence in Chicago - or my own Philadelphia, for that matter - that you'd like to share with us? No, of course you don't - you never have any answers or solutions, just a bunch of cheap taunting questions.

As for Ann Romney and multiple sclerosis, I don't know Ann Romney. I do know a dear friend's wife who has it, though - and unlike Mrs. Romney, she is unable to walk without a cane and is kind of wobbly on her feet even with one. I doubt she would be able to get on a horse, and I know she would never be able to stand up to the kind of travel and public appearances that Mrs. Romney has made as part of this campaign. While I'm happy that for Mrs. Romney's sake that she apparently had a milder form or access to better treatment, it doesn't lessen the fact that her case so far doesn't appear to have affected her life nearly to the degree it's affected many others, and I find myself feeling very uneasy when she appears to be "milking" it for the sympathy vote when so many other people have it so much worse. The least she could do is give equal acknowledgment to the very good fortune she's had with her case.

And your directing this comment at Phine of all people is particularly insensitive, even for you. It would be like me bragging to her about what an easy time I had with breast cancer 15 years ago. Oh, wait - I did that already, several months ago, much to my shame. For whatever it's worth, Phine, at the time I meant it to be encouraging and hopeful, I am truly grateful for the good fortune I've had, and would give anything if I could somehow pass it along to you. Stay strong.....

Reddev - nope, if it were up to me he'd have been executed already.

Don't Carry - so, umm, where's that list?

Oh and Don't - when some of my 'fans' roll in a talks about circle jerks and lady parts, all directed at me, you will of course jump in to MY defense, yes?

Do do try to treat people equally, right?

Spanky - again, you know the difference but your limited intelligence keeps you pounding the same moronic question. A single act of violence took 12 lives in Colorado - maybe you don't know the difference. You are a pathetic excuse for a man.

As for the truck accident - note the word "accident." No one intentionally killed these people and wounded 58 more!

You clearly know the difference but you chose to focus on things which are not comparable. You're just like Romney - smoke screens because you have nothing of value to post.

Phine - no one owns AUTOMATIC weapons. No One. These were semi-automatic, which are very common.

Torpedo - the rub is the free society part. You can kill with guns, gasoline, cars, and even fertilizer.

Joanne - All politicians are owned. Every single one of them. My point about Fiesty and MS is exactly that - I suspect you would take issue if Fiesty had directed a critical comment towards your friend with MS. She is making fun of someone with a disability. That is crap, and you know it.

I directed the comment to Phine because I wanted to hear her unique take. Given her situation I think what she has to say has more value.

And Phine if thinking of me as you puke helps you in any way I'm all for it.

phine -- Great post. See you're staying strong! Go girl! Keep fighting. May you get through it, my thoughts and prayers are with you.

Feisty -- Figures. Sheesh! Who left the barn door open?

Spanky -- Are you saying you need help with your battles? Can you make a point without using someone else? Ever?

Seeking Sanity--you only used two of your personal attack repetoire of words. You got idiotic and ignorance in but you forgot "low information". I know you only have 4-5 total personal attack word vocabulary but no reason not to use them all at the same time in order for all us to be wowed by your brilliance. Why not try and actually respond credibily and substantively as I thought you guys were against personal attack campaigning? Isnt that what you are always criticizing Romney for? Come on show Spanky all the statistics that show how gun control laws save tons of lives? I know you can show how Chicago with the strictest gun control laws in the country have made it a much safer place than the rest of the country right? I know you are far smarter than the rest of us so you can provide us with all that data that proves us low information voters why we should vote for your man. Make your substantive case Seeking, I am all ears.

Uh, Seeking you seem to be failing to consider the acts of the Coyote, yes?

The human smugglers driving the truck are not super nice people.

But tell me - what is the difference between 12 dead in one act of violence and 45 dead in multiple acts over the course of a month?

You know, cause I'm super dumb and all. :)

Knock it off Spanky. You are as disagreeable and beneath contempt as no jo is. You have a problem with women, take it elsewhere, not here.

As to "therapy horse" don't hand me that crap. No Warmblood is a therapy horse of any note. That is just Annie trying to get people to feel sorry for her. "Oh look at me, I have MS." Bullcrap to that. My son, who is truly disabled, rode a REAL therapy horse, a mare that I owned that spent HOURS in the pasture letting him think that he was in charge, but taking care of her rider every minute of the time he was on her. When his balance shifted, she so gracefully stopped, that he didn't budge. And she didn't move again until his posture was corrected. THAT was a therapy horse, and God bless her, I miss her to this day. She retired, safe on our farm, and is buried under her favorite tree having lived to almost 30 years old.

Annie on the other hand, likes to sell very expensive horses to friends, having doped them up so they don't show how lame they are.

Now. Leave phine alone, or I shall forward a complaint.

Phine. Hope you are doing well this day.

Good to see you are an expert on the subject NewDay. Perhaps you ought to advise the Obama Campaign, seeing how they not only backed off the horse issue, but even apologized. But then again it reminds me of Obama's bowling comment.

Are you actually threatening me with a complaint?

Really? Cause having a little more scrutiny around here might not be a bad idea.

What do you say NewDay?

@ Spanky who said:

"Phine - no one owns AUTOMATIC weapons. No One. These were semi-automatic, which are very common."

Only half right Spankster! The shooter had semi auto weapons. WRONG on the NO ONE part. All ya gotta do to buy a pre ban full auto weapon is pay the money and pass a background check and buy a tax stamp. Check it out with your local ATF.

Sold a 7.62 Full Auto Galil about 2 years ago for $17,500.00.

For a big brain lawyer, you sure are ignorant of American Gun Laws!

Sure Torpedo, point being of course it is totally illegal to do so, unless you get an antique.

So I shall amend to a statistically insignificant number do, but none of them would ever use one in a crime.

Problem is most here have no clue between auto, semi auto, and military grade.

And should it come to it, the AK is but a zip ty away, eh Torpedo?

Oh and I missed it Carry -

1. Yes I would love to have help with my battles. Or you could try to be consistent. Either way, a win.

2. The only point here is to have fun, and life is always more fun with and including others.

I'm a more the merrier/ people person kind of GUY. And where is that list?

Wrong Again Spanky..The Galil was NOT an antique!

Antique/old, whatevah!

That being said it'd be a hoot to shoot. Except it'd be ass expensive.

Nope, I'll stick to 5.56 and 9mm bulk from gun shows.

"...no one owns AUTOMATIC weapons. No One."

Bull. Mods are readily available among gun nuts that will adapt their AR-15 type assault rifles into fully automatic weapons. One needs only to surf You Tube for clips of semi-literate hillbillies shooting up the country side for evidence. It happens a lot. The Second Amendment does not exist merely to protect the pathetic fantasies of immature wannabe Rambos. Assault rifles, .50 cal sniper rifles, and "street sweeper" style shotguns must be banned. Period.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W4WT0zFV2Q&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIX11zFpUjc

What are the odds that Romney won't release his tax records because he's a participant in the IRS tax amnesty programs for those who illegally used Swiss bank accounts to escape legally required taxes?

I'm guessing the odds are good based on his failure to release the tax forms connected to his Swiss accounts even for the 1 year he deigns to allow us to see.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2012/05/02/irs-reads-swiss-bankers-like-an-open-book/

OK Torpedo - come on and tell Sailcat that those hillbillies are committing a crime in altering the guns.

And of course it was illegal for me to remove the catalytic converter from my '89 chevy pick -up, but damn, it just seemed like the right thing to do.

Oh and I have been looking at those cool sniper rifles. Sadly, I'm just not interested in dropping $12k.

New day, why can't a warmblood be a therapy to the owner? I know of many horse owners who do not drug their horses (show horses) please a little less silly talk and some kindness would make your day a whole lot better.

John B, man you are sounding like a birther every post. I think the chances of you being correct are about the same as the chances of Obama's birth certificate issued by Hawaii as being a fraud. I think its about the same as the chances of finding out if Obama were ever to release his educational transcripts that he "earned" on the merits of his grades his law review status versus being chosen by a professor to ensure diversity or that his entrance into Harvard Law was based on his grades and LSAT scores being equivalent to the average entrance marks of the other students.

When did you become one of those crazy conspiracy guys? Do you live in Idaho too?

So how come he doesn't ever go to Chicago to console the family members of all the dead and wounded there?

Spanky -

As if you really care..

Every Presidential campaign has a theme song. This should be Mitt's:

Hey, y’all prepare yourself
For the Rubberband man
You never heard a sound
Like the rubberband man
You’re bound to lose control
When the Rubberband starts to jam

Doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo
Rubberband man, Rubberband man
How much of this stuff do he think we can stand
So much rhythm, grace and debonair from one man, Lord
And then he had nerve to wiggle his left toe
To his knee, got the feelin’ in his head, y’all
Ah, come on, baby

Hey, y’all prepare yourself
For the Rubberband man
You never heard a sound
Like the rubberband man
You’re bound to lose control
When the Rubberband starts to jam

Rubberband man starts to jam
Movin’ up and down across the land
Got people all in his ways
Everything about him seems out of place.

Kudos to the Spinners!

Spanky keeps bringing up the shootings in Chicago. Unless my local newspaper is printing erroneous information, most of those shooting have been perpetrated by young kids. Where and how does a 15 year old get a gun legally? Tell us what needs to be done about all the illegal guns on our streets.

Kirk,

I don't agree with the personal attacks here or in normal everyday life for that matter. I do applaud your posts which for the most part are reasonable and not incendiary. By the way ready your response to something I said the other day. Don't see how you can say that Obama is an idealogue. He really is very, moderate even conservative in my opinion.

Back to the topic, I think that some people, both left and right, only post attacks. However, regarding your taking Seeking Sanity to task, I do not consider her one of those. She seems to have strong opinions and maybe says things in response to the hateful rants that the right post. I can name other left leaning posters who use personal attacks and don't bring much to the conversation. People who I agree with philosophically, but disapprove of the message their angry posts portray. I can also name many right leaning posters who bring nothing but hate and vitroil. I've given up a long time ago to call people out.

To answer your post - Take what you like from the following, I pulled from Wiki. In my view not having read all the studies - Assualt weapon usage was always and probably always make up a small percentage of the weaponry used in gun crimes. Both a pro and con view is held in the portion that I pulled.

That being said I think that the assault gun ban decreased the usage of these guns in heinous multiple victim crimes. Due to the ban, crimes with multiple victims could have been prevented.

Honestly, I think the only way to address this is to limit the sale of these types of weapons and cartridges to the military and police. This doesn't certify absolutely that these guns wouldn't get out in the illegal market but it could lessen the dispersal. Maybe increase penalties for selling or having possesion of them.

______________

The United States Department of Justice National Institute of Justice found should the ban be renewed, its effects on gun violence would likely be small, and perhaps too small for reliable measurement, because assault weapons are rarely used in gun crimes.^[9]

In 2001, Koper and Roth of the Jerry Lee Center of Criminology, University of Pennsylvania, published a peer-reviewed paper called The Impact of the 1994 Federal Assault Weapon Ban on Gun Violence Outcomes: An Assessment of Multiple Outcome Measures and Some Lessons for Policy Evaluation. They found that:

"The ban may have contributed to a reduction in gun homicides, but a statistical power analysis of our model indicated that any likely effects from the ban will be very difficult to detect statistically for several more years. We found no evidence of reductions in multiple-victim gun homicides or multiple-gunshot wound victimizations. The findings should be treated cautiously due to the methodological difficulties of making a short-term assessment of the ban and because the ban's long-term effects could differ from the short-term influences revealed by this study."^[10]

The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence examined the impact of the Assault Weapons Ban in its 2004 report, On Target: The Impact of the 1994 Federal Assault Weapon Act. Examining 1.4 million guns involved in crime, it determined that since the law was enacted, "assault weapons have made up only 1.61% of the guns ATF has traced to crime — a drop of 66% from the pre-ban rate."

Lynn: Why can't they be therapy horses? Because they are high headed divas, just like Annie. Does that mean that there is NEVER a Warmblood that could od the work my horse did. Of course not, never say never. But, it is a put down to real therapy horses to suggest that this one did what mine did. MY horse was in the arena, she was used by a group for disabled riders. She was bumped by wheel chairs, tolerated braces was not afraid of canes. Kids could bounce on her, lay back on her, and she would stand all day.

Nor did I suggest all show horse owners drug their horses.

But Annie and Mittens did.

Try reading a little more carefully, if you please.

.

Hey Mark, I saw your comments about Penn State over on First Thoughts. I too, think they could have been punished harsher/differently. I am a bit conflicted on this one though.

There is no downgrading the pain and horror and subsequent cover-up by the Penn State folks. It was abhorent and needs to be punished.

The players of today can move on and change schools. The players of the past 14 years are left to second guess their college careers and be constantly hounded from here on by the whispers of "He palyed at PSU when all that trouble was going on"

I struggle with the fact that an awful lot of people who had absolutely nothing to do with this criminal act are getting caught up in the wash. I played football at the University of Michigan and I can't imagine what the guys who played at Penn State while this was going on are dealing with. Nothing near as bad as the real victims, but they too are kind of victims of Paterno and his ilk.

No matter where they go from now on, something that they held up and talked about with pride will be something they will hide. Who wants to talk about the fact that they played ball at PSU during those years? My years at U of M were some of the greatest of my life. I am sure most of the PSU players feel the same way. They can vacate all the victories, but they can't take away the memories those players have. Albeit, those memories will be tarnished now.

No longer will they be asked about the great game they palyed against OSU or UM, but they will be asked if they ever thought something was up. People will assume they must have known something was going on.

I can tell you that Big 10 football is a Big Time industry and the players, the Student/Athletes, for the most part are more student than athlete.

So today, while my heart goes out to the victims of the scum that was Sandusky and the rest of the people who covered up his heinous acts, I feel sad for all the players who have been swept up in this horrible event and were for all intents just there to play ball and go to school.

Something they thought could never be taken away from them has just disappeared.

I hope that the Big 10 kicks PSU out, but I doubt they will. The death penalty would have been good. They probably will feel it anyway. I can't see anyone, of any caliber, taking a scholarship to Penn State for a long time. Those kids have a choice.

As for MS Ann and her dancing horsey, therapeutic thingy......Willard listed the horsey as a "business expense"......nothing else.

So, is MS Ann's therapy horsey business or what?

@Phine......great to see ya' postin...hang tuff!

Wonder if horse therapy would work on cancer? I am so tired of needles and IV's

WCA

Football is a religion in the SEC. Too much money in college football. I think the NCAA did ok - glad the statue is gone and they took away JoPa's wins.

My sweet mare would have taken you for a ride in a cart down by the river, where we might see deer and wild turkey, so gently you would take a nap, phine.

Makes me livid, Annie comparing a dressage horse to what a real therapy horse does. She ought to be ashamed of herself, but she is too arrogant to get it.

Oddly enough, chilled, I never got a tax write off for horses.

Let's all take a moment to send some positive thoughts & prayers to Bev's little grandson Tony, who is in the hospital with head injuries sustained in a car accident!

Bev - you know how to find me if there's anything I can do to help!

{{{hugs to you both}}}

Yellow Dog--thanks I appreciate your comments. First to the substance on gun control, I am not an NRA supporter but I personally own 3 handguns, a 9 mm Glock, a 45 Sig, a 38 revolver and several shotguns. I grew up hunting and enjoy shooting. However, I am definitely a city dweller now and rarely get to practice and the guns stay locked up in a large safe. I would fully support a variety of reasonable gun laws such as limited certain types of weapons and ammunition but I dont support the type of gun laws like the City of Chicago and DC had which outlawed all handguns. To me the slippery slope argument that the NRA uses to justify their desire to prevent any type of gun laws or restrictions is no different than the slippery slope arguments that prochoice advocates state to prevent any reasonable type of abortion laws such as banning late term abortions. So I dont have any issue with certain gun restrictions. That said, using a tragedy like this to rally the troops is so wrong. No reasonable gun laws is going to prevent a mentally disturbed person from creating havoc. This guy was bent on killing and he would have done it in some manner.

Seeking Sanity may not be one of those you describe but she has always gone after me with her inane personal attacks. You are correct many of the people she goes after may deserve it but why does she drag herself down into that mud. She has indicated that she is an Obama volunteer campaigner which is fine and I applaud her for her civic involvement. That doesnt mean that those of us who enjoy the discussion and debate of the issues should be subject to her personal attacks because we are not on her side on all issues. I have been very critical of Bush and his policies and have applauded Obama for tacking some tough issues such as health care. I dont like ACA but I do agree that we need to move towards a universal care mode and have said so many times. In many areas, she really doesnt have the knowledge or experience to credibly debate so she attempts to diminish the other personally, which is just wrong. But if she were willing to meet half way and actually substantively discuss, I would too.

As for Obama, I am not sure where you consider him a moderate but certainly not on economic matters. The growth of government employment, services and yes assistance far outpaces any reasonable basis and I do believe that is a fundamental belief on his part. I do think he tilts much farther to the left than say Bill Clinton who I admire greatly or even his wife. So maybe a moderate on some matters but I just dont see anything close to being a moderate on financial policy.

Bev

If your grandson is anything like you - he will be okay. He will be strong. I will think of him all day.

HUGS

Oddly enough, chilled, I never got a tax write off for horses

Hey NDD, sounds like you needed a better Tax accountant.

Bev - my thoughts and prayers go out to you and your grandson. I am so sorry to hear about his accident. You have my number -if there is anything you need, let me know.

Or WCA: it could be that since I am the one who decided to have horses, I am the one who must pay for them. Personal responsibility and all that, you know. I can afford it, Mitty can afford it better. Why do suppose WCA, that he expects YOU and the other taxpayers to pay for his $200,000 horses, so Annie can pretend she is a real horsewoman?

Beverly, my dear.

Praying for you, your family and most particularly your grandson today. God bless all of you.

Obama is very moderate, even conservative?

Yet, it is a fact that he was graded the most extreme left senator in 2007, to the left of even a self-avowed socialist and has governed along the exact same lines as he he voted in 2007.

Yet, it is a fact that Obama is the most devisive / polarizing president in Gallup history.

Yet, it is a fact Obama cannot even garner one vote from his own party for his extreme budgets.

Moderate? Bill Clinton was moderate in his second term.

Obama is no Bill Clinton.

Geeez, NDD lighten up. Nice to see you are for personal responsibilty.

See we do agree on something.

I, however, am all for maximizing the tax code to my advantage. I don't view the IRS as a charity so I don't want to give them any more money than they are allowed, from the tax laws that they enforce.

I don't know why anbody would think any differently.

Hey phine, hope you are having a good day today. You certainly do live in the heart of "Football as a Religion" territory.

I hope they melt that statue down, it would suck if it ended up in the hands of some big money donor.

My prayers continue to be with you.

John B, man you are sounding like a birther every post.

How do you make that, Kirk? President Obama has had his birth certificate verified by the State of Hawaii...it's a dead issue. Romney hasn't released the entirety of even ONE year of imcome tax records even though the norm for over 30 years is to release multiple years.

There must be a reason why the Romney camp has calculated that it will be less damaging to refuse to release the customary tax records than it would be to do what presidential candidates have done routinely for decades. Is my question a speculation? Yes, but it's one based in the knowledge that it points to a place where the documents already released are incomplete.

Another possibility is that Romney is a 1%-er who has years in which he pays no income tax. That would be a pretty good argument for the Buffett Rule.

Yet another is that he was actively involved in Bain Capital years after he says he left the company. That's the one getting most of the current attention, and there are over 140 SEC filings to back it.

Perhaps he's afraid there are more politically-sensitive investments out there, like Stericycle's business disposing of aborted fetuses.

I do know this...there's a great deal of work taking place to avoid a disclosure of records normally made public by candidates. McCain saw his taxes and picked Sarah Palin as his running mate.

Feisty...thanks for letting us know about Bev's grandson. Will keep him in my thoughts and prayers. Please keep us updated!!

Lighten up? Funny how that is always your response when you get your head handed to you.

So answer the question: why does someone as rich as Mittens expect Joe and Joan America to pay for his horses?

And how does that match with his message? Milking the tax code to one's advantage is a good thing? Really? Funny how those breaks are aimed at Mitty's tax level and not those that really need it.

WCA,

Yes the players didn't know what was going on. However, IMO, I don't think that any of them will in the slightest feel they didn't earn their wins or share their experiences. Thanks for sharing about your football glories. Was not a student/athelete but... college, yeah good times :}

Went to Univ. of Nebraska right before they 3peated in the mid 90's. While there saw how the players got away with everything outside of murder. In that respect the players and coaches (for covering it up) were to blame for their (felony and misdeameanor) offenses. Here it is different, only the coaches and admin are culpable. However, never thought that a group of fans and boosters could be more loyal/blind to their football team than NU fans, but PSU and their donors and fans have proven me wrong.

I agree the student athletes did no wrong, but I agree with the forfeit of games to pull his name off the record books. Here is hoping that the PSU president, chancelor and other officials get their deserved time in jail.

I heard the Big ten might withhold any sharings from bowl games. SMU got the death penalty not sure why it wasn't used here.

John B, I have no problem with speculating but do you also speculate what is in Obama's educational transcripts? Its been common practice for presidents and even presidential candidates to release those. We found out how bad a student Bush was but saw that he had a SAT score higher than Gores. We know all about how smart Bill and Hillary were. Should we be consistent with your line of reasoning and speculate that Obama must not be as smart as everyone gives him credit for? We all know that only the top 6 at Harvard Law make law review based on grades and the rest make it based on professor choices to ensure diversity. Should we speculate on Obama's grade in Econ 101?

I really dont see Romney's tax returns having anything to do with his ability to be president. Did you vote for Clinton after discovery of his shady financial dealings? Did you vote for Obama after discovery of his shady financial dealings with Rezco? So far there have been no discoveries with Romney that even come close to the unethical dealings that those two undertook. So Romney is a successful business person who minimized his taxes according to the law--sort of like what Buffett does right? Is he now disqualifed too because he is too successful?

John--focus your attention on the substance. Do you think Obama's economic policies will work better than Romney's? If so fine and vote for Obama for that reason and try to convince us why we are wrong and drop the crazy birther conspiracy crap.

Allow me NewDay - because it's in the tax code.

For instance You All have been assisting me buy large SUVs for a long time. Back in '01 I got me a shiny new Landcruiser. 100% deductible per IRC Sec. 179.

Then in "08 you all helped me get an QX 56. But only $25k of it, as the section was amended cause all us bastard lawyers and doctors started 'abusing' the section, which has been around forever, but directed at farm equipment [hence it applying ot GVW of over 6500 pounds].

Oh and guess what NewDay - I test drove the new QX 56 and the Merc. GL 450 yesterday. Yep, you all will be helping me buy one of those beauties come December. Tax planning, don't ya know.

But it's cool, even though I diligently maximize my deductions, as we are all directed to do so in the code, I still pay an assload of taxes. An absolute ass load.

But really WCA - the real reason NewDay doesn't take advantage of the code is she is likely a W-2 employee. You really think she runs anything through a Schedule C?

No way Jose.

Newday--you are kidding right? With the new CBO statistics showing that 47% of taxpayers dont pay any federal income tax, I would say the code is providing all of the necessary government welfare and more. Who do you think takes advantage of the mortgage deduction, child dependant exemption and child credits, education credits, IRA deductions etc? I know that everyone also pays state income, sales, property, gas and excise taxes but those are so we can all enjoy the benefits of our local government and educational services. At the federal level, on those who make decent money pay any tax and I am all for revising the tax system to make it more fair and equitable for everyone, not just rich but everyone who utilizes our federal government.

Hey, WCA, guess you better talk to your tax accountants about that tax write off for your horses!...

We’ve given all you people need to know and understand about our financial situation and how we live our life,” she said..lol

MS Ann has spoken on the matter......Now, just go away, all you little people, but vote for my hubby!

Yellowdog - Kirk constantly goes after me because after I argued against him - successfully - and he quickly changed his stance, every time I replied back, I won't discuss with him anymore. So, now I get nothing but taunts. Not a problem for me since most posters on these sites have given up "discussing" with Kirk. He uses circuitous arguments and changes his stance if you are making valid points against him.

But, thank you for defending me. I do get passionate at times but usually don't name call unless it is done by someone first.

Have a great day and I always enjoy reading your posts.

Kirk - We are probably not that far on our ideas about gun control. I don't agree with citywide bans or taking all guns away. Along with you, I think that tighter laws or bans on certain types of guns are needed. I've never hunted, not my thing, but understand it is a free country.

I see Obama as moderate because he more often than not acquiesces to those on the right. Whether you talk about the ACA or a tax cut laden Stimulus in lieu of direct government spending, I see moderate quasi conservative ideas. To me an idealogue is someone who doesn't understand that there is a need for compromise. Throughout his tenure, I have seen Obama compromise or offer to compromise. It seems that the opposition party will not accept anything other than everything they want when negotiations start. That is not the definition of compromising.

Bob 180 - Yet, it is a fact that he was graded the most extreme left senator in 2007,

Obama has not governed to please the left. Think escalations in Afganistan, think extending Bush Tax cuts, think Libyan intervention, think tax cuts in lieu of federal spending, think opening up offshore drilling and more leasing in natural wilderness areas, think reigning in the EPA...

Even though Obama has governed to try to appease the moderates and independents he has become the most divisive President because some on the right are unreasonable.

Mark, I understand the need to vacate the games. It was the right thing to do. I too was/am surprised by some of the blind faithful of PSU that seem to want to minimize this tragedy. It is unfathomable. I also hope that some kind of charges can be filed against anyone still alive who covered this up. I am no lawyer, but maybe Obstruction of Justice?

Sadly, for Football and Basketball, there are a lot of players that get away with a lot of stuff. The better the player the more they seem to get away with.

I was lucky enough to know a lot of athletes who played hockey, Girls Basketball, volleyball, etc. Not the real high profile stuff. I guess those are the "Student/Atletes" I am talking about.

Very few go to College with the hopes of making it professionally. Most are happy to get the Scholarship and not have to pay for school.

Regarding SMU, I think, in hindsight, the NCAA kind of wishes it hadn't have done that to SMU. While paying players is not nearly as bad as what happened at PSU, the two events really fall into 2 categories. One is an NCAA violation the other is a criminal act.

It seems the criminal act would be treated harsher, but the logistics may have made it tougher.

U of M opens against Alabama this year and has a night game against Nebraska @ Nebraska. SHould be an interesting year for the Wolverines.

Wow Chilled, now you have gone to calling Anne Romney "MS Anne"?

that's pretty low.

I expect that those on the left here will be telling you that you have crossed a line any minute now.

BTW NDD, do you have any problem with all us taxpayers helping people buy electric cars? $7500/pop.

And they still aren't worth it, yet.

[...last time I check, you are neither the boss of me, nor this board.]

Yes, Spanky...here you are free to be the @!$%# you strive to be...nothing like setting the bar low, eh "counselor"?

...keep reaching for those stars...

Mark, I guess I really havent seen too much compromise by Obama or either leadership. Lets face it Reid and Pelosi loved shoving various bills down the GOP throats and vice versa. I think Obama loves to lead from behind as he says so he doesnt really advocate for compromise. But you definitely have pointed out various areas in which Obama starts from a far left position and comes grudgingly to a left of moderate. But I dont want around with blinders on and think the GOP party is blameless and a panacea for all the country's problems. The GOP shares an equal part of the blame and my main issue with Obama is really his far left economic policies and his naive view of the world in terms of economic behavior and desire for equality of outcomes. I never said nor took the position that Romney is a savior or any other candidate for that matter.

Seeking Sanity--you wonder why we dont get along because why are you making stuff up to please anonymous people here. You have never schooled me lets face it everytime we engage you dont bother to engage and just call me names. I dont make circular arguments nor do I change positions but feel free to think so if that makes you feel better. Whether you find my posts arrogant or condescending is not even close to the same as you calling people idiotic, low informational, moronic or the list of names you prefer. Go back to any of the last 50 posts and find me one where you actually provided a substantive argument to reply or debate. I have offered you the olive branch a dozen times but you refuse to take it. I hold no ill will towards you as what difference does it make? Loosen up Obama isnt going to lose Illinois so my vote wont matter so just try and prove me wrong rather than sound shrill and nasty.

Do you have any problem with mittens expecting us to fund Annie's toy horse?

Which is it. Personal responsibility, or mitty gets to rape the tax code?

Kirk: you bore the living snot out of me, but I will say this:

The people receiving those breaks are low income elderly, disabled and handicapped. Do you HONESTLY expect me to take that question seriously while you defend that pathetic loser Annie and her tax breaks on a $200,000 horse? Really?

Work that out when you sit in church next Sunday and get back to me. K?

Newday-that was one of the most arrogant condescending "low information" as seeking sanity likes to say reply I have heard in a long time. Where did you get the idea that people who take advantage of tax deductions are low income, elderly (by the way you do know the elderly control 80% of the wealth in this country dont you) or handicapped? So you want to play some moral equivalency type argument? Thats the way your mind works? So you must really have hated John F Kennedy being president or lyndon Johnson and I am assuming you hated Kerry when he ran because you must hate those rich rat bastards right? You do realize that there are a ton of people who make less than 100,000 a year that own homes, have kids, send their kids to college who take advantage of those tax breaks right? And guess what I will let you in on a secret--some of these people are even really bad bad bad parents even though they arent rich like that pathetic loser Annie.

Romney's wife is a loser because she raised 5 kids successfully with MS but because she has money she is a loser? I really feel sorry for you because that boulder on your shoulder must be awfully heavy to carry around in life. When life is really getting you down, try to wonder what all went wrong in your life to prevent you from opening up your own small business was it lack of ambition, unwilling to work hard, talent etc because sure seems like alot of people figure it out and nothing is stopping them so stop being so jealous and do it yourself.

Wow and when I was in church last sunday all I heard was the minister talking about tolerance and what a horrible world this place would be if we were all alike and asking each of us to wonder what its like to be in someone else's shoes regardless of circumstances.

Bev,

My prayers go out to your Grandson with wishes for a speedy recovery, if he is as strong as you you have nothing to worry about!

Spanky, LAY OFF phine, you know she's not up to speed so give her a break will ya?

Hooray for the NCAA! they didn't go far enough for my liking but it was stronger than I expected.

oh ya,

Just saying hi to all my friends out here, I haven't gone anywhere, for legal reasons I cannot post on political topics anymore (my opinions are bought and paid for now), so I read and hold my tongue. But my heart is still here with ya all and I hope you all have a safe and sane day....

EG

Dear God: Kirk; go back and have someone read and explain my post to you.

Apparently, you, like right wingers are wont to do, missed your minister's message.

Cry me a river about Ann Romney. She has the best health care money can buy. Why don't you go talk to MS folks who aren't graced with that?

And I care as much about her and MS as she does about anyone else.

Ann Romney raised five kids successfully? Don't make me laugh. As IF she did the work.

You know the difference between the Romneys and the Kerrys or the Kennedys? Romney is out for himself, Kerry and the Kennedys actually did think that they had obligation to others less fortunate then themselves.

NDD - well said! The Romney's couldn't hold a candle to either the Kerry's or Kennedy's as far as integrity go.

How many nannies and maids do we think Ann had? Not that there is anything wrong with having either - just don't crow about all the work when you've actually done none of it!

Obama/Biden 2012

Wow Seeking and NDD, you ladies really do talk like you know the Kennedy's and Kerry's!

So tell me, are their estates really as awesome as I hear that they are?

Ever ask them how hard it was to clean those mansions without any maids or nannies?

Again, do you ever think about what you post before you post it?

Newday--I got news for you but I am not a rightwinger. I didnt miss the message at all and I dont want around with a chip on my shoulder because someone has more talent than I. What does Ann Romney having the best health care that money can buy have anything to do with it. They earned it they deserve it. I am not jealous, as you clearly are. You have no idea whether Romney is out for himself anymore than the Kerrys or Kennedys. You really have no idea. You must not have any kids either because you would know that money has nothing to do with being a good parent. Your attitude is what permeates this unfortunate class divide that Obama has created. If you really think that Romney is somehow a lesser parent or person because he has more money than Obama, wow you live in a very strange world. Its fine to back Obama because you think his policies are something you support but the class warfare assumptions you make and your gigantic chip on your shoulder is something you really should seek some help. Attacking Romney's wife the way you do is as horrible as those who used to attack Chelsea for her looks or Michelle Obama for her vacations. Just personal jealousy that is very unbecoming.

I'm a little tired of the rwnj posturing that Annie is exempt from criticism because of MS.

She wants to be in high office, she better be able to take the criticism. I have ZERO sympathy for her.

And I am sick of her whining.

White Collar Auto: "I struggle with the fact that an awful lot of people who had absolutely nothing to do with this criminal act are getting caught up in the wash."

It's not often I agree with even half of what you post, let alone 100%, but I'm with you all the way on this one. Good post.

I'm a little tired of the rwnj posturing that Annie is exempt from criticism because of MS.

Me too!

Annie Romney is NOT your usual MS sufferer in any way, shape, or form...

No matter how hard the right wing nitwits try to spin it!

*waves to Egilman* Good to see ya!

Kirk - We will never agree on everything including economic policies and what will or won't work. My expertise is in architecture not economics so although I may try, I can not match your economic acumen or convince you that Romney's policies will not work. Still will debate though. That said, looking at the recent past, what he proposes (tax cuts) don't seem to have done much over the decade. A reason I was dissappointed Obama bought into the tax cut mantra.

I will grant you something that others on my "side" will probably not like, but whether Obama wins or not things will not magically get better. With the House easily staying red and the Senate turning R, I see a massive logjam coming up. This may be the new normal.

If the Dems were to win the House and keep the Senate with a Romney president, I think the Democrats would compromise and address some of our long term issues such as spending cuts and tax code reforms. If Romney wins though I see no compromise in the GOP planned future.

I so do not want to see a Romney president, because they would over reach on so many fronts.

Got to go.

Libbie shark jumping: "MS ANNE."

You guys really are all about the compassion. :)

And dog gone it Don't - where is that list?

WCA--its amazing what they post at times. I wonder if some of the other progressives read those posts and just cringe at what is said. Sometimes their own words capture the true objectivity and are clearly their own worst enemies. I couldnt do a better job if I tried to reply so I think I will just let the readers understand what type of people they are by judging their own words.

NDD - had Ann Romney not made her "illness" a point of discussion, no one would be talking about it. Had she not done the "pity me" stupidity, people might think higher of her. But, she like Romney took the low road - as always.

I have to laugh when people post that many are jealous of the Romney's because of their wealth. I have what I want and don't envy anyone. Apparently the people who are throwing that out there are really the ones who are jealous.

Obama/Biden 2012

had Ann Romney not made her "illness" a point of discussion

It's alright for little Annie to play the MS card when it's to her advantage, but, heaven help anyone who questions the motives...

Contrary to popular belief, Annie does NOT get to have her cake & eat it too!

White Collar

Just wanted to respond to my take on the Penn State deal.

Culture of Corruption

I worked for Arthur Andersen right out of college. Highly prestigious. Had to make the grade to get there, right? Well,...thanks to Enron and Worldcomm - that Sweetheart Reference isn't worth the paper it's written on,...even though I wasn't with them during the scandal years. It happens. even to those who have nothing to do with the crimes.

You pick up and move on. You might say Penn Staters (like us Andersen-ites) are paying the price for the Corporate Culture of Coruption.

I like to focus on the relationships I made during those years and all of the invaluable training I received. I even met my husband during that tenure. So, while many may scoff or mock Andersen - it was still the BEST post collegiate experience and I am not ashamed of the hard work it took to get there.

Mark, I would bet that we agree on more than you think. I definitely dont agree with alot of the positions held by the GOP and I agree with many of the positions held by various democratic leaders. I dont think Obama is evil nor Romney the savior and my guess is that if you eliminated the paid and unpaid campaigners from this blog, most of us would feel the same just in varying degrees around the margins. Nothing is as black and white as the politicians want us to think. I am not in favor of tax cuts that are not part of a larger tax reform initiative but I do think lower rates in general worked to kick start Reagan's recovery but those were permanent targeted tax cuts and for Clinton with the reduction in the capital gains rate that spurred the internet investment boom. However, I also agree that rates need to be raised as the recovery is in full bloom. The biggest difference I have with Obama and his party is this notion that bigger government, bigger entitlement spending, attempts to equal the playing field, not understanding what drives economic behavior type notions. I really dont think Obama gets what drives private capitalism and investment.

As for not getting magically better, I couldnt agree more. It wont matter who is president with our divided congress in which lets face it both parties are at fault. The GOP and Reid are both obstructionist and neither side or house tries to compromise in any meaningful manner. Sometimes letting government get out of the way is a good thing but maybe not now.

Oh look, I ask why Mittens isn't giving us the same access and background has presidential candidates have for DECADES and Kirk throws out a bunch of deflections. That includes going all the way back to Whitewater...again.

Like most Conservatives he's been trained like a parrot to shout "COLLEGE TRANSCRIPTS" whenever anyone asks for tax records, as if they're the same thing. It isn't the same thing, it isn't as common, and we have GW Bush's college transcripts BECAUSE THEY WERE LEAKED, not because he wanted us to see them...quite the contrary in fact.

Look buddy, Republicans spent 200 MILLION DOLLARS to prove that a married man will lie to hide an affair because they couldn't find a place to hang their hats on Whitewater as a shady business deal. When I demand the same you'll have something to talk about. Until then Myth Romney will continue to get complaints that he's unwilling to allow "you people" (we're called Americans) to vet him for the highest office in the land.

I know in Kirk's world having a lot of money elevates one to a higher level where deference is expected and questions are simply gauche. I refuse to just stand silent while my country is transformed into a new aristocracy where we all bow and scrape and thank the plutocrats for gracing us with the ability to feed ourselves.

John - what I find most amusing is the constant throwing out of the "jealous" argument if you find the Romney's distasteful. I don't begrudge anyone their well earned money - I am in good shape and I have very wealthy friends. But the integrity they have is heads above the Romney's. They don't look down on those with less and they go out of their way to work to help others instead of being classless. As I've said before, all the money in the world can't buy class - as the Romney's show daily.

Obama/Biden 2012

John B--not sure why you want to get on a pedestal and preach on this issue as if I am some guy that matters. John just speak to me and lets have a simple discussion of substance. Neither one of us is campaigning for office and its anonymous. There was no deflection just use of simple comparisons. Read your own post again and see how you avoided the substance of my post in order to make a personal attack or try to belittle me rather than win the argument. I would call that deflection. I am sure you understand that Romney is in full compliance with the campaign requirements for tax return disclosure. You are certainly within your rights to speculate about a failure to provide more but it really is just a deflection away from real issues as you try to assume "bad" things. When you do that you are no different than the people who speculate about Obama's educational transcripts. When you allege bad things by Romney you also make it fair to compare his economic choices and finances with those he is running against which makes it fair to compare his financial integrity and acumen to Obama. So I think my comparisons are right on point you just dont like it.

I never said it wasnt within your right to vet him but dont get defensive when people find that vetting of Obama didnt rise to the same standards you are holding Romney to. Its not as if a community organizer with shady personal and personal connections is somehow above the fray compared to Romney.

Again John at the risk of actually trying to be nice, this practice of pretending that personal attacks on Romney and/or his wife is somehow more justified by you progressives than the birther/hard right wing attacks on Obama is downright hypocritical and I would be far more interested in your opinions on Romney or Obama's actual performance and policies than these personal attacks that mean diddley squat.

I never said it wasnt within your right to vet him but dont get defensive when people find that vetting of Obama didnt rise to the same standards you are holding Romney to.

Here are Barack Obama's tax returns back to 2000. http://www.taxhistory.org/www/website.nsf/web/presidentialtaxreturns

Tell me again how we're expecting Romney to subject himself to a higher standard than President Obama. This time with a straight face.

Seeking Sanity--in all candor you have no clue what Romney is like anymore than I do. Your perception is colored by being a campaign volunteer for Obama. For all you know, they could be the nicest best people in the world and Obama the nastiest. You really dont know and neither do i. So instead of making assumptions based on zero first hand knowledge while obviously believing sources that are biased, why not spend your time telling me why Obama is a better candidate based on the issues rather than trying to make up stuff.

John--you knew what I meant and again avoided answering didnt you? So if Romney releases all his educational transcripts back to middle school even though its not required (just like the tax returns) are you going to demand that Obama does it? Plus, vetting is certainly alot broader than worrying about tax returns. I would be far more interested in the people that each candidate invested or did business with, their business backgrounds, who they hung out with that formed their business judgement etc. So are you willing to vet Obama all the way back in the same manner? You know what I meant and you deflected again and of course avoided the real substantive discussion on the issues.

A former immigration official testified under oath in a Georgia courtroom that the Social Security number Obama has been using to file taxes DOES NOT PASS EVERIFY!!! Dude couldn't get a job at McDonalds.

Go vet that if you're so objective.

I deflected? Not at all. If you look back up through the thread I've been consistent in my message;

What is it in Mitt Romney's tax record which leads to the calculation that a constant drumbeat of speculation is less damaging than it would be to do what presidential candidates have been doing for the last generation plus?

You, on the other hand, have walked all over the map trying to get away from that question. You've pretended other candidates haven't submitted to this part of the vetting process, tried to demand information from President Obama that is NOT part of the normal vetting, practiced guilt by association, and even brought back unfounded allegations against a President who's been out of office over 20 years. You've even tried to practice shaming by claiming that questioning the business practices of a candidate for President is somehow the same as believing a man who was born in the United States to an American citizen is actually a foreigner.

Remember how much fun we had making fun of Bush for getting a "C" in US Govt? Boy I sure do.

Say, what did Obama get?

Remember that Bush didn't actually volunteer those documents, they were leaked?

Boy I sure do.

Bush didn't volunteer them.

Neither did he spend millions of dollars on a high priced law firm to keep them sealed. Just like his selective service card, his birth certificate, his police records, and every other document that tells the story of his life. The law firm was Perkins Coie, and Coie now has a cabinet level position in Obama's administration.

Bush never bothered to have his records sealed because there was nothing really there.

Obama keeps his past sealed, at great expense, and tells you lies about his past.

Like in his book, where he has been proven to LIE 38 times.

Especially disgusting were the lies he told about his own dying grandmother..

So, what's in those records that would be more devastating than letting the issue fester?

Maybe you guys will have better luck over at the other thread, where you're trying in vain to convince people that Olympic Athletes are somehow analogous to Small Business owners, and loving parents are somehow equivalent to the government.

Lols.

Source for your accusation, Alil.

Source for what, exactly, partisan hack dawning?

Oh sorry your right!

He didn't lie about his dying Grandmother at all!

HE LIED ABOUT HIS OWN DYING MOTHER!

AND HE DID IT FOR CHEAP POLITICAL POINTS!!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/14/us/politics/14mother.html?_r=1

Is that the kind of proof you want? Kind of hard to tell, since you didn't specify. Want to challenge anything else I said? Go ahead, but please be specific.

After all, it grows tiresome to go find things for you on the interwebz that you already know.

See, now THAT is the difference between wanting Romney to rise to the same level of disclosure as other Presidents in recent history and real, bat-crazy Birtherism.

Thanks for your help, Lil guy.

John, like I've yold you before, even if the Birth certificate is real, it lists his father as a British subject, meaning he is not a natural born citizen - a child of 2 citizens - as decided by SCOTUS in Minor v Happersat.

Is that what we were talking about?

You guys are desperate to change the subject, face it.

Is anything I said a lie? Untrue? Proven false?

No. No it is not.

You mean in which case the SCOTUS defined suffrage as a right not constitutionally guaranteed to women? http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/minorvhapp.html

I rest my case.

What is your case? What is your point?

You know, besides trying to deflect from the fact that your chosen candidate is a low down sleazeball that would even LIE about his own mother's death for cheap political points?

I wasn't the one who claimed Minor v Happersat dictates that both parents must be American citizens in order to run for President...something that is clearly untrue if you just read the decision.

As for deflection, you bring in the death of the President's mother? Your "evidence" is that some Conservative wrote a book claiming that something President Obama said probably wasn't true in her opinion. I'm underwhelmed.

I've completed my task of demonstrating that Birthers are unhinged, fringe element bit players who have no place in legitimate political discussion.

See 'ya!

Grimey -

No offense.....but if we can't cast aside our political differences and come together for even five minutes over what happened in Colorado last week, do you really think the Olympics is going to be any different? I'm not asking any conservatives here to high-five a liberal or any liberal to hug a conservative. I'm just saying that all the gold medals in the world aren't going to fix what's wrong with us. Only we can do that ourselves.

Besides, you're too young to remember when Mark Spitz set the record that Michael Phelps broke - the 1972 Olympics in Munich that are more remembered now for the terrorist attacks and the Israeli athletes being killed. For me, seeing Michael Phelps break that record was at best kind of bittersweet.

And personally, I'm just sick and tired of the ominous music and those gloom and doom voice-overs, period. You'd think there's be a point of diminishing returns on them, wouldn't you?

GT-2021701

Mitten's is actually going overseas to visit all of his money. Switzerland is so nice this time of year.....

Good one! Mittens also gotta negotiate outsourcing jobs

4more for 44

Obama/Biden 2012

Hi JoAnne...

Sorry to say I was several years from being born when Mark Spitz set that record. :-(

I think that to an extent people did come together over the Colorado shooting last week. I was very happy to hear Mitt Romney praise the President for going to California. Even on this board, I think people came together a bit. Were there some stupid, troll-like statements? Of course. But I thought Spanky had a great comment about the President's speech. And certainly, for the most part, the campaigns backed off over the weekend, which was nice to see. :-)

Have a great day!

(Btw...I thought your post about your mom the other day was beautiful).

Grimey -

Mark Spitz's accomplishment came long before current training methods and the era of the professional "amateur athlete", and was even more amazing to me than Phelps', though I suppose you could argue that Phelps' competition was also better trained and equipped in comparison, so the feats are equally amazing. And records were made to be broken, right? But that Olympics was memorable for all the wrong reasons, which made Spitz's wins all the more poignant.

I agree that Romney praising the President for going to Aurora was nice. It's what presidents do. I remember the one moment when I truly admired Ronald Reagan was at the memorial service for the Challenger astronauts and seeing the time he took to personally reach out to each family member. It was heartfelt and it was real, and if there had been a First Read back in those days, I'd have been the first person to jump on and say so.

But you see how quickly the "come together" moment from Colorado has already evaporated. I can't imagine what kind of shared tragedy it would take to truly unite us for more than a weekend any more. Another 9/11? If that happened again (God forbid), I somehow suspect we'd be pointing fingers and blaming each other and politicizing it within 24 hours.

But that's me and I'm obviously at a low point right now. Thanks for the lovely comments you made about my Mom - the high points like that mean a lot.

The title of this thread- what's next?- has an answer. . .

NBC is now supplanting Ross of ABC as the media jackass of the week.

I actually saw the last thread on rcp- you guys are laughing stocks for trying to stretch Romney telling Olympic athletes to thank their families for their help with Obama telling businesses "you didn't build that".

I'm sure somebody thought it was really clever- but it's as embarassing as the New Yorker bowing before the profundity of "leading from behind".

I was too young to remember 72, but recently saw a documentary on Jim McKay the sports anchor who covered the tragedy.

May God bless all the athletes in London and keep them safe.

Go USA

JoAnne--I still recall those Olympics for the tragic moments but also because of the huge crush I had on Mark Spitz! It is sad how our discourse has deteriorated.

Yellowdog -

Thanks for the reminder. Jim McKay was one of the best ever. To me, the Olympics without him is like election night without Tim Russert. Irreplaceable.

Edit to add: Steeler Fan - Did you have the life-sized poster? My college room-mate and I chipped in together to put it on our door!

Yellowdog - Hopefully we will NEVER see a repeat of what happened in 72. I hope all the security is going to be enough.

When terrorists are determined to cause loss of life - whether domestic or not - it is so difficult to guard against them.

We should all hope that the Olympics can be separate from the world politics and can be kept safe.

Could not agree with your sentiments more - God bless the athletes and keep them safe.

Go USA!!!!

Go team USA

JoAnne---of course I had the poster---what red-blooded American girl didn't?!

Another Olympian from that team was from my suburb of Pittsburgh and one night at our local pizza joint I was across the room from Mark as he was visiting his friend. Did I have the nerve to approach him? Sadly, no.

Phine---good to see you posting and I will smile the rest of the night at the image of you thinking of Spanky when you throw up!! I hope it is not too often.

Grimey, nice post but with all the high fiving and hugs, I doubt anyone would have noticed what any of the ads said. While I agree with the sentiment that we put aside our differences and come together for the Olympics, tell that to the GOP in Congress who have spent 3 1/2 years obstructing every effort to solve our problems. I also guess you missed the posts on Friday after the shooting.

Phine, nice put down of Spanky above; too bad you couldn't throw the contents of the bucket in his face.

Beverly, thoughts and prayers for your little grandson.

Ron,

I question why a person to person sale of firearms does not require verification that the purchaser is not prohibited from owning a firearm. Since everyone is on a “requiring valid ID” kick how about adding a nationally recognized symbol or code on State ID’s that shows when you have passed a background check and are approved to purchase and own firearms?
Selling to any person without proper verification would be a felony.

Screw Dat Ron, Gun Control Won't produce Any Jobs!

Why is Americas Tax System so screwed up, that 21-32 TRILLION $$$$$$$$$$$ sets Offshore in Tax Havens away from the IRS? Airlines Grossed $22.6 BILLION in just FEES! Banks charge FEES to access Our own $$$$$, then get rid of Tellers, & other personel, so that we're getting to a Point where, all we can talk to is an Automated Voice!

People need to getup OFF thier Lazy A$$e$ & start going to the Bank, Stop paying Bills Online, Send thier Payments thru the Postal Service, Stop going thru the Self Checkout lines, because if they Don't Stop doing these things, in the not so distant Future, Folks will look around & Say"Where the He!! did all the JOBS Go"?

The answer will be, We All letem go because we were to DauuuuuuuuuuuuuuM Lazy to do what needs to be done to Save All them JOBS!

You Betcha!

Occupy SoggyBottom!

Ron - I wonder: are you a gun owner?

I ask because I am. In fact I love shooting. I have hunted, but I am not a big fan - not too much into the whole killing things.

But shootin' stuff- super fun.

Now I own large capacity clips for a couple of my hand guns, and a very large clip for my AK. These are good for only one thing really - fun on the range/desert [where I prefer to shoot].

I would never hunt with or more importantly use them in a defense situation. They jam. A lot.

In fact the Aurora shooter's drum jammed. So in a way, we are fortunate he used the drum. Had he used the standard 20-30 round clips there would have been no jam and more dead. These clips can be changed in seconds.

Bottom line - I like the big clips. There are legal and lawful, so why do you want to take them away?

Because...um...ummm...it's a "nose under the tent" kind of thing! Yeah, that's it! If we can keep lunatics from owning assualt rifles then the storm troopers can break down my door in the dead of night and take my squirt gun.

In case your sarcasm meter is broken, there is no sane reason for private citizens to own assault rifles.

Ron Indiana

Would someone explain why hunters need asault rifles that hold a 100 rounds of ammo to shoot rabbits, deer, squirels.

Maybe those wild eyed T-baggers, former Arizona State Sen. Russell Pearce and Louie Gohmert who said if moviegoers had guns they could have stop the suspected shooter in the mass killing.

BTW: have you noticed most Tea baggers have wild eyes?

Would someone explain why hunters need asault rifles that hold a 100 rounds of ammo to shoot rabbits, deer, squirels.

Impotence in other facets of their lives...

Louie Gohmert who said if moviegoers had guns thry could have stop the suspected shooter in the mass killing.

These blood thirsty gun nuts won't be satisfied until shoot-outs at the OK Corral are common place in public venues!

Smoke, darkness, flashing lights & screams are the perfect place to play John Wayne! *snark off*

Uh, yeah, then I suppose we are going to need a definition of 'assault rifle.'

A shotgun tends to assault the duck. A deer rifle tends to assault the deer.

Why heck, the pellet gun assaults the gopher.

Alex Jones Says Aurora Shooting Was Staged By Obama

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/40636_Alex_Jones_Says_Aurora_Shooting_Was_Staged_By_Obama

Another wild eyed right winger

Hey Bev. - who is staging all those shooting in Chicago?

Are the shooters in Chicago 'wild eyed right wingers?'

Smoke, darkness, flashing lights & screams are the perfect place to play John Wayne! *snark off*

Oh, and, I forgot to mention the "target" is wearing FULL body armor!

Spanky!

Made tons of $ of Clinton's Hi - Cap mag and assault weapon ban in the 90's. Even sold Charlie Sheen the Spencer Rifle used in "The Unforgiven." I remember a time when you could buy ammo at swap meets and gun shows were populated by sportsman and collectors. Not so today! All you see are right wing whack jobs like yourself who never spent a day in uniform dressed in camo and acting out their juvenile fantasies.

And Spanky...You still have lousy taste in firearms. And I can hit a golf ball with a Model 1911 Commercial @ 50 feet!

Spanky-

Hey Bev. - who is staging all those shooting in Chicago?

Are the shooters in Chicago 'wild eyed right wingers?'

I would say yes, since education and socioeconomic pathology comes from the wild eyed right's insistence on destroying the economy socially and politically.

Then there is the NRA gun sales which allows straw men to purchase guns.

Appeals court upholds conviction in straw-man purchases of AK-47s

A federal appeals court Tuesday upheld the 2011 conviction of a man who bought dozens of AK-47s from an Arizona gun shop over a two-week period and delivered them to another man.

The case began on Sept. 28, 2006, when Johnson, a Minneapolis native, went to Shooters Supply Company looking to buy 25 Polish AK-47s. In the paperwork required for the purchase, he stated that he was the “actual buyer of the firearms” and was not buying them on behalf of another person.

But after leaving the store with the guns, Johnson “promptly delivered them to Pedroza, who gave him $4,500 as a partial payment,” according to the court. Johnson did not have a license to deal in firearms, the court said.

Johnson went back to Shooters Supply on Oct. 6, 2006, to buy 34 more AK-47s – 14 Polish and 20 Yugoslavian guns – again claiming to be the actual buyer. But only some of the guns were available immediately.

He went to a gun show in Mesa the next day where he walked out “pushing a cart stacked with seven cardboard boxes containing two rifles each,” the court said. He drove directly to a meeting with Pedroza where he handed over the guns and got another $4,500

http://cronkitenewsonline.com/2012/05/appeals-court-upholds-conviction-in-straw-man-purchases-of-ak-47s/

==========================================

Just so you know our Mayor is trying.

Chicago Moves To Change Handgun Law

http://progressillinois.com/news/content/2012/07/20/chicago-moves-change-handgun-law?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ProgressIllinois+%28Progress+Illinois%29

That's interesting Torpedo, but to the point, you will note that neither Ron nor Dennis attempted to respond.

Why is that do you suppose?

Could it be they have never fired a gun?

Bev. - change them to what?

You already have the most restrict laws out there.

And don't forget about Mr. McDonald. You remember him, right?

The Supreme Court does.

Spanky, who cares if Ron or Dennis ever owned a firearm! EVERY American has a right to feel secure in a public place and has the right to protect his person and his property. That said: I cringe every time I say some moron who is not a member of law enforcement "packing" just "because he can." Pussies!

Only cause they want to talk about it, like they know something.

Oh and I'd be careful with that word - some here are kinda sensitive when it comes to females, and I presume the female anatomy.

So you don't carry? Huh.

Like the saying goes - when seconds count, the police are minutes away.

Torepdo - how come there are more gun deaths in Chicago than in the state of AZ?

Bev said:

Hey Bev. - who is staging all those shooting in Chicago?

Are the shooters in Chicago 'wild eyed right wingers?'

I would say yes, since education and socioeconomic pathology comes from the wild eyed right's insistence on destroying the economy socially and politically.

And I am going to say that you Bev, are a nutjob. Tell me Bev, did you believe the report that the shooter in Colorado was a Tea Party person when it first came out? It's that kind of thinking that is destroying this country.

So you sit in your easy chair, typing your fomenting remarks while blaming everyone on the right for your socioeconomic conditions. You never consider that the democrats who have had a war on poverty for umteen year have never rid this country of poverty... but you continue to vote for the failed attempts every election... the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

Just a little food for thought....

The assault rifle did not kill and wound those people… a man did!

And he would have hurt those innocent people, one way or another, even if he had NO ACCESS to firearms. Where there is a will there is a way.

When our forefathers thoughtfully included the right to bear arms as part of our great Constitution, local militias were a key element of our national defense. Militiamen bring their own weapons to the fight. They did at the time of our fight for independence and the same holds true today.

Since those days, our great nation has developed the greatest fighting force in the world. Given that, the need for local militias to defend our country has virtually disappeared.

However, the right and duty to defend is still upon each of us.

THAT is why the right to bear arms is so important. Heaven forbid, if we were overrun by foreign invaders, how many of you would praise your neighbor that owns an assault rifle?

Think about it people. This is a much bigger issue here and it endures for as long as our nation endures.

"Why is that do you suppose? Could it be they have never fired a gun?"

"Only cause they want to talk about it, like they know something."

THAT'S your argument, counselor? I'll bet most of the people who were shot in Colorado have never fired a gun, either, nor have half their friends and families. So they shouldn't be allowed to talk about it either? I mean, it's not like they know anything about guns, right?

I guess by that logic, only people who have ever been pregnant should have opinions on abortion, right? "cause, like, they're the only ones who actually "know something" about it.....

It will be interesting to see what happens in Chicago if they adopt the new gun laws. Will gun deaths go down? I seriously doubt it. Do you think someone that is going to break the law by killing someone with a gun is going to take the gun laws seriously? What sort of convoluted thinking is that? Let's make laws to control guns... yeah right! Criminals are criminals and they don't care what laws they break. But... take away the right of law abiding citizens to own guns and you start down the slippery slope of tyranny. I'll keep my 9MM and my police assault shot gun thank you very much.

SOTB - "Heaven forbid, if we were overrun by foreign invaders, how many of you would praise your neighbor that owns an assault rifle?"

If and when we're ever over-run by foreign invaders, I seriously doubt that my neighbor owning an assault rifle is really what's going to turn the tide. Thanks, but I'll take my chances with the American military.

"Think about it people. This is a much bigger issue here"

That much I'll agree with you on. Which is all the more reason why it deserves better arguments than the one you just made.

No JoAnne - it's more like you talking about taxes, jobs, and economic indicators.

You know, because you have never read the tax code, never started a business or had to make a payroll, and likely are a W-2 employee.

Nope, see Joanne you can talk about and debate these subjects all you want. It goes to the weight of your comments, not you ability to make them.

See the distinction there?

JoAnne in PA...

First let me say that under the pretence that we are overrun by foreign invaders, our military would have already failed. I agree... I will put my trust in them every time, but there is ALWAYS a threat and we (yes by we I mean all of us, our military and every citizen) must remain diligent.

Your comments indicate to me that you will be one to bow at the feet of an invader rather than fight.

You have to recognize that our forefathers put no restrictions on the types of arms we are allowed to bear. I believe there was a reason for that, and to be quite honest... I put more trust in their judgement than yours. ;-)

I can see it right now... the Jury comes out and convicts the person who killed a person with a gun... Mr. Smith, please rise... Jury have you come to your verdict? Yes we have your honor. We find the defendant guilty of first degree murder. The judge says... Mr. Smith since you have been found guilty of first degree murder I sentence you to death. According to the laws of Chicago I also sentence you to an additional 6 months for breaking the gun laws.

How stupid can it become?

"It goes to the weight of your comments, not you ability to make them."

Oh, I get it now. I've paid taxes for 43 years, but my thoughts on them carry no weight because I've never read the tax code. I've hired, laid off, or fired scores of people over those 43 years, and been laid off permanently twice myself, but my thoughts on that carry no weight because (according to you, at least) I never started my own business. Hey, I've got a great idea - let's just make it the law that only people who have ever started their own business can vote! 'Cause according to Spanky, they're the only people whose opinions on anything matter anyway, right? What a very......Republican.....concept.

Of course, for somebody who's always accusing other people of not answering the question, I see Spanky still hasn't answered mine, either - so does that mean he does believe that the thoughts of people who shoot guns carry more weight than those people who have been shot? And before you ask - no, I never was, thank God. But I was almost killed by a drunk driver once. Does that mean my thoughts on DUI penalties carry less weight than the 16-year-old twit who almost killed me because she was the one driving the car? Or does it all depend on whether or not she ever started her own business?

Brianb-999431

Tell me Bev, did you believe the report that the shooter in Colorado was a Tea Party person when it first came out? It's that kind of thinking that is destroying this country.

BB,

I thought of the possibility; but I don't point fingers until I know the truthful source.

You never consider that the democrats who have had a war on poverty for umteen year have never rid this country of poverty.

Source please

It's you right wing nutjobs who want to defund social programs while bemoaning poverty.

FYI:

Most of the 10 poorest states in the country are Republican.

Mississippi is the poorest... followed by Arkansas, Tennessee, West Virginia, Louisiana, Montana, South Carolina, Kentucky, Alabama and North Carolina.

And the list doesn't even include Texas, where Rick Perry is governor and one in five people lives in poverty.

http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/22/what-does-it-say-that-most-of-the-10-poorest-states-are-republican/

==========================================

You people are biting the hand that feeds you when you incessantly lie about democrats and their safety net helps you .

4more for 44

Obama/Biden 2012

JoAnne in PA

I've hired, laid off, or fired scores of people over those 43 years...

OMG! YOU MUST BE ONE OF THOSE EVIL 1%'ERS!!!!

HOW DARE YOU DEPRIVE PEOPLE OF THEIR JOBS!

ROMNEY HAS GOT NOTHING ON YOU!

SOTB -

No, it's called "middle management". And I hired way more people than I ever fired, only laid people off when ordered to do so by upper management, and unlike Romney, agonized over the few people I had to fire; I didn't enjoy it.

But hey, could you and Spanky get together and get my story straight? Am I an evil 1%er, or am I a worthless W2 worker bee? I'm kinda having an identity crisis here.....

I have fired guns. I don't own one, but I've used them. I grew up in a small town environment, lots of hunters, lots of young people who'd just set up some targets to plink at.

Even in that environment most folks thought people who were all hot for AK's and other weapons beyond the normal hunting guns and maybe a pistol or two were a bit off their rocker.

JoAnne - you seem not to understand the meaning of the word 'weight.'

Or is it you are just particularly sensitive today?

As to you identity crisis - did you create any of those jobs? Were you ever responsible for making payroll, i.e. ensuring there was enough in the bank to cover everyone's salary?

Have you ever been compensated other than through a w-2?

We already know the answers, don't we JoAnne?

Seems those fore fathers weren't forward thinking enough to envision the 'musket' of today.....(silly fore fathers)!

Seems conservatives have an obsession with Chicago. Odd they never mention the equally high numbers of shootings in other major US cities from New York to Miami, Washington DC, New Orleans, Los Angeles, from east to west, north to south. Nope, only Chicago.

Jody - somehow they think it makes them clever instead of desperate. Oh well, you can count on it coming up every Monday, can't ya?

Obama/Biden 2012

Why NOOOOO Jody, I'd love to chat about those cities you mention.

Say, do any of them have conservative mayors?

DOn't know about Miami, but the rest sure don't.

But let's talk NY, K? Very strict gun laws, and yet tons of gun violence. What gives? The guns are illegal.

You don't think the bad guys are ignoring the law, do ya Jody?

Seems conservatives have an obsession with Chicago.

That's because they're holding on to a mythology going all the way back to Richard Nixon in which Chicago is some kind of lawless place, then combine it with some crazy notion that somehow Barack Obama is the cause of that corruption.

Weird, I know.

As long as the following happens.

The newest research from Nate has it as:

“Obama chance of winning 68.0% Romney 32.0%”

Brockton Barlow

Poor Obama, he spent 100 MILLION Dollar on Bain Capital lies and couldn't move the needle one point. In Fact, he lost support.

No, he didn't, Anyone using their eyes and ears plus their brain can clearly see President Obama supporters gave more money than R-money's 7 billionaires and the angry old white men the Koch bros funded .

Nobody believes this liar anymore.

It's Fox noise that has no credibility.

4more for 44

Obama/Biden 2012

What a waste!

Yes, you are. A waste of oxygen and parking spaces. Care to cite your sources? If I may quote Ronald Reagen, "Trust but verify".

Care to cite your sources?

Google "The Hill Poll"....

Take solice in knowing that Obama does have the support of Hugo Chavez.

Hugo said Obama is "a good guy".

I'm not googling $hit, a$$hole. YOU made the claim, YOU back it up you lazy fvck. Otherwise, you are another Koch$ucking liar.

Then stay ignorant.....

It's your choice. I'm good with it.

Detroit-Storm

I'm not googling $hit, a$$hole. YOU made the claim, YOU back it up you lazy fvck. Otherwise, you are another Koch$ucking liar.

Yo Tyler!

Is THIS the kind of respect the liberals are allowed to show us here?

HAHAHAHAH~!!!!! this site is a JOKE! CoH my backside!

Sick,

Waaaaaaaaaa!!! need some chese to go with that whine? Guess you think regulations are only important when they apply to you. Grow a pair, you freaking pansy.

Whats wrong, Pudding? Did the man in the box that you are anonymous to make you upset? Save your false indignation for someone that might fall for, you big faker.

Detroit

Your attitude reflects the problems we are having in this country. I see more compassion for fellow human beings in the chemo room than from you. Take a laxitive and smile for goodness sake. No reason to be ugly. Please?

Brockton Barlow - you're clearly good with staying ignorant - as evidenced by most of your posts!

Obama/Biden 2012

Brocton Barlow, if that ONE poll is as you state, the flip side is all the millions Romney has spent and all the millions his SuperPACS have spent hasn't moved the needle for him or did that part of your theory fly right past your eyes.

LOYALTEXAN - it's merely a write-off. Nothing there to do with her MS. As usual - smoke and mirrors from the Romneys - and downright lies.

Obama/Biden 2012

And you know this how Seeking?

Why do you continue to speculate in things you know absolutely nothing about?

Gosh, it's almost like you think you actually know the Romneys.

Hi phine

Have a beautiful day :)

Hey Bev,

Day couldn't be better. Hubby bought me a present from a jewelry store - a nice store! :)

Hubby bought me a present from a jewelry store - a nice store! :)

Nothing like some *bling* to brighten a girls day! ☺

Well, looky there - Fancy-Prancy-Horsie-Dancing is now listed as the preferred therapy for MS on the AMA website. And the preferred treatment for diabetes is riding up and down in car elevators in mansions in La Jolla. And finally, the preferred treatment for Impotence is shooting off AK47s in the desert.

phinephancy - hubby is a great guy - clearly! And, I'm sure you deserve it and more!

RedDev - and the preferred treatment for idiocy is posting under the name "Spanky."

Nothing like a little "bling" to put a smile on a girl's face! Now I need somewhere good to where it !!!!!!!!

Naa. RedDEV - the preferred treatment for impotence is the Porsche.

But I would love a car elevator, particularly n La Jolla.

But hey, thanks for focusing on my junk.

To Don't 's point above - I'm hoping you are a female. If not then that's a little strange, you thinking of my package and all.

I prefer Audi's myself. They rocked at DuMonds this year.

New Audis are very nice. But I will never ever own on. Not after suffering through the 5000s 'unintended acceleration issues in the '80s.

Plus the 500s was a total POS - block cracked and every single widow button broke.

That being said we test drove the New QX56 and GL 450 yesterday [end of year tax planning already]. Ms Spanky wanted to try to Q7, but I put my foot down. I lost, but was able to divert her to a wine bar instead.

phine

Nothing like a little "bling" to put a smile on a girl's face! Now I need somewhere good to where it !!!!!!!!

I'm sure you and hubby will think of something.

Enjoy ☺☺☺

Wish I could get better faster - a cruise ship is a nice place to wear new bling.

If the horse is therapeutic for Ann, why are the Romneys deducting their share of the operating expenses as a business loss? I am very sorry that Ann Romney has faced medical challenges but find the campaign's use of them for political gain to be very offputting.

but find the campaign's use of them for political gain to be very offputting.

Not to mention Annie doping lame horses to sell them for a pretty profit!

Spanky is bragging about all of his money again. Tell me why we are suppose to give a sh!t? What an absolute moron. We have seen pictures of your wife here and she wouldn't even fit into an Audi. So you tell us you diverted her to a wine bar, do you think this is your facebook page? Why don't you STFU up for a change?

Bragging, am I Tom?

Huh? Here I was thinking I was simply relating my day yesterday.

But I do see you have chosen to insult Ms. Spanky. Classy. Big fatty is she? Funny.

So Tom, how is it exactly that you are going to make me "STFU?"

Tom - ruff weekend?

Willard and Annie = LIARS EXTRAORDINAIRE!

phinephancy - agreed!

Sanity

Time to think of the old John Lennon song "Imagine". And try to listen to the words and be nice to each other.

phine--agreed! and that John Lennon song is one of my favorites! All my best to you!

Is it just me or do the posts on this sight get more intelligent after normal working hours???

It's just YOU!

Sorry!

You certainly are :-).

UAW News articles are normally posted in the morning triggering a mad rush to post first. To be quick, you have no time to prepare a thoughtful consideration - you have to throw a one liner at it. I suspect that a lot of the posters do not have regular jobs. It is the ones who come home from work who may help upgrade the level of discussion.

You may notice that the poster who is usually first rarely rejoins the thread with an insightful observation.

Adler - I suppose some would "admire" him but not many. People of value would just see right through him - as most are doing now!

Obama/Biden 2012

Please take your meds LOL

WOW !! This is pretty damning!

I wonder if there's any validity to it. If so wonder why it hasn't been more thoroughly investigated by this country's media.

Actually, as people get to "know" Romney, they are walking away from him. Even other Republican politicians are tiring of his secrecy and are speaking out against his practices.

When it comes down to actually pulling a lever for him the real conservatives will either skip voting for the top office or skip voting altogether.

Clearly you've failed to take your meds today. And, I find it interesting that someone who clearly is working with only half a brain talks about a no-brainer!

Obama/Biden 2012

Shhh, facts just confuse the Conservatives. They have "truth" on their side.