.

It's actually pretty funny Mark, Obama claims he was taken out of context, which he wasn't, and then inserts comments from Mitt Romney that are taken out of context.

Can't see this one helping Obama.

Ahhh GT, why the namecalling?

Obama said what he said.

Why won't you folks just own it and try to defend it.

Hey White Collar.

You might call it bias, but I understood what the president was talking about. He could have said it better and unfortunate for him some are twisting his words to make it sound bad.

By the way, what happened to First thoughts lately? So many trolls and insults being thrown about. Good to come to these smaller threads and talk to people who want to debate.

totally agree Yellowdog.!!!

I understood what he said as well Mark, I just don't agree with it. If all it took were roads and Bridges to build a successful business, no on would fail. They have roads in North Korea and Russia.

I believe at the heart of what he is saying is that the collective is more important than the individual and that is not what this country was founded on.

As for First Thoughts and a lot of the other threads, I venture in there at my own peril. Not as often as I use to. Things have gotten pretty bad and I suspect it will only get worse over the next few months.

White Collar Auto..........................

A question for you.

Does anyone create a business completely on their own? Think about it. Does anyone create and operate a business that has exclusiveness that doesn't have any usage of any other product that someone created? Was the person who created this new business home schooled or was that person educated in a public/private school?

If any of your answers were yes, you have backed what President Obama stated. What he said is true. It would truly be rare, if at all possible for anyone to start and run a business that created jobs for others that didn't use any product or knowledge already created or thought of by someone else.

What is so hard to understand about this? I really don't think there is anything in doubt about his statement being factual. It has more to do with Romney and his band of merry men desperately trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Out of the blue

The ad stars a former plant worker in Indiana who tells the story: One day he was told to build a small stage and, shortly after, R-money Bain colleagues herded the workers in front of the stage to tell them they were fired. R-money, the worker says, made $100 million by shutting down the plant.

If Mitt Romney wins, the middle class and America loses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oLo0Jwj03JU

Ahhh GT, why the namecalling?

Obama said what he said.

WCA - You're right. I'll re-phrase my comment.

Only idiots, or someone trying to dupe the idiots, could take O's statement out of context....Except for "WCA", who knows exactly what he said, but refuses to admit it....LOL!...

Obama/Biden 2012

Do you think Mitt and Ann have a clue about the crap that comes out of their mouths????? Does the whole family talk like that? If so, it would be like a "Stepford" dinner table!

Brian, that is not what he said and you know it.

The President minimized the effort, the blood sweat and tears, that business owners put into building their own business. Without the US Government they would have failed.

By the sound of the reaction from most business owners, they disagree with him.

The fact that for 4 days now you all have been doing your best to "explain" what he meant should say enough to stop the debate.

WCA - you're deliberately lying about what he said. Isn't it pathetic that the only way the Republicans can beat this man is to constantly lie and lie and lie.

Obama/Biden 2012

JFK-2112

Beverly, no more handouts and free money for you!

Nothing in life is free; except if you're Willard "Myth" R-money and other Robber Barons who steal from the middle class and the poor.

Obama is a one term President!

Willard will never be President or hold another government office. He may wind up like Bernie Madoff when he turns lose his tax returns.

I was just hearing what the President was saying in Jacksonville, FL.

"About how great a country America is, to live in."

Wow, The President draws large crowds.

Romney ...........

Sanity do you have anything of value to add to any discussion or is it just the constant personal attacks with you?

How about, just once, trying to put inoto your own words a cogent thought about the topic?

Guess you don't.

Leave it to conservatives to take everything out of context. Hell, just because our president has black skin, it absolutely, without a doubt, means he was born in Kenya. A gun tracking operation used by Fast and Furious means without a doubt, Obama wants to take away guns. And now, Obama says infrastructure built by society helps business creators to do what they do best, but the right claims Obama discredits business entrepreneurs like Jobs and Ford.

The blinders are so tightly wound around these conservatives heads, it has choked all ability to reason. All we can hope for is that they get wound so tight, their little peon heads explode, and we can factor them out of the game.

WCA - you clearly don't. But you do continue to post lies. Doesn't it bother you that you have to lie in order to try to promote Romney? You can't say anything positive about him so you try to tear apart our very good President.

It is not our fault the GOP has sunk so low and has no one of value to run as President. You Republicans are totally to blame for how low the GOP has sunk. Don't whine and try to make it our fault!

Obama/Biden 2012

And now Red Dev has taken the conversation to that of Racism.

Racism and Personal attacks are the last bastions of desperation.

So the debate is won.

WCA.........The President minimized the effort, the blood sweat and tears, that business owners put into building their own business. Without the US Government they would have failed.

Your response, in my opinion, just isn't accurate. I don't think he was minimizing any-ones efforts or what they did to create a business. The facts are, without government rules and regulations almost no business would thrive the way currently do.

We have patent laws to protect inventions. We have laws to protect the employer from unreasonable lawsuits. We have laws to protect the workers so they can have a descent wage, safe working environment, reasonable working hours and conditions and meal/rest breaks. We have a certain expectation that the business owner/creator will abide by that coincides with government tax codes. We have laws that protect the environment from a business polluting our waters/air. The government should not interfere less with business as the owners of business would like. If that happened, we would revert back to the days of sweat shops where people actually died because of the demands of their boss. We would have air comparable to what is breathed by the Chinese where people walk on city sidewalks with air masks/respirators. Our waters would be so polluted that it might become unmanageable to make it safe for drinking.

The government has and continues to loan massive amounts of money to fund homes and businesses. The government has spent untold amounts of money to create thoroughfares for people to travel to get to a business. We have made agreements with other countries so that our trades can supplement each other in a fair and balanced manner.

Why is it that republicans refuse to accept these principles as being good for the average person in America? My answer is that they couldn't care less about the people they employ. They see their employees as a necessary means to their end who are as expendable as yesterdays newspaper and merely tolerable as long as the board members make millions while the workers make only enough to pay their bills; if that.

WCA - I've looked back over your posts for a few site. YOU of all people should not be chastising anyone!

And, if you do follow my posts, I very often post facts. Too bad you can't seem to remember those. Selective memory?

Does anyone create a business completely on their own? Think about it. Does anyone create and operate a business that has exclusiveness that doesn't have any usage of any other product that someone created? Was the person who created this new business home schooled or was that person educated in a public/private school?

Good point .... I would like to thank .... cows.

Working 84 hour weeks, it wasn't the wisdom imparted in Ms. Carroll's physics class .... nope, hamburgers that I grabbed on the run kept me going.

And for inspiration as a teen .... it wasn't the roads that pushed me to dig swimming pools during summer break .... it was a new Yamaha.

Later it wasn't a bridge that got to me work .... it was a cool Austin Heally 3000 that I worked my azz off for.

But that's just selfish me, right.

But I do understand the "it takes a village" socialist mentality and offer as a humble villager someone that can help you be a success - that can help you build that company .... someone who can help you extract your collective (and collectivist's) heads out of your colons ..... the people called therapists.

Or you could just grow up and face reality.

IS it me, or do BOTH campaigns seem like they are acting like 2 year olds fighting in a sandbox?

BTW, was the crack about the deceased voting directed at me? If so, pretty low rent comment.

phinephancy - Hi - hope you're doing well. It's great to see a post from you! Good thoughts are always out there for you!

bob - 180 - your post is meaningless. No one has put down hard work but none of us got where we are alone.

And, your need to "brag" about your possessions is so childish. It's the little passive aggressive part of you and is not in the least bit impressive. But, I'm sure you feel better!

Sad little man - really! Perhaps you need a few more sessions with your therapist. You're clearly not even close to being done!

Obama/Biden 2012

WCA,

The dueling videos highlight both the individual spirit and the support of the larger society that is the fabric of our lives.

It starts with the moment of your birth. When you take your first breath you are part of a family you, a community , even a society that you did not choose. but they all promise to give you the tools and support every child needs to grow into adulthood to live a life of meaning and value.

It does not matter if your ancestors lived in a small town in Kansas, Utah or NYC, the beauty of this country is that ALL citizens have the same rights and obligations and to provide for the common good.

Both Romney and Obama are recipients of the largess of this country. I believe that President Obama understands this in his bones.

Romney tries but ends up sounding like a cheerleader to his sales team and not understanding the lives of his supporters who look so solemn sitting in the bleacher seats behind him.

The government has and continues to loan massive amounts of money to fund homes and businesses. The government has spent untold amounts of money to create thoroughfares for people to travel to get to a business

OK Brian, I will try one more time. Where does the Government get this money to do all these things?

They get it from successful people and businesses.

Northstar DFL - beautifully put.

WCA - every one of us who works contributes to the infrastructure. Every one of us. Not just who some people would call successful - every one of us who work!

They get it from successful people and businesses.

Do they? Maybe the reason Romney won't release his tax returns is because he DIDN'T pay taxes. We know there are plenty of other elites that don't pay taxes. They just take from the rest of us and build their own portfolios, leaving us to pay for their mistakes. You know, privatize the profits and socialize the losses.

The divide continues.

Liberals doing their level best to minimize the damage Obama heaped upon himself by his comments.

Conservatives not buying it at all because for 4 years now we've known all along that Obama is a Marxist and we won't back down from that thought one bit. Obama keeps proving it over and over again even if the liberals don't see it or choose to ignore it.

His statement minimizes the effort of the business owner/builder. Why would Obama do that? Has anyone even asked that question? What was in his thought process to say something that would tear down the individual effort of someone who has worked to build a business and especially those that have taken on the risk both financially and physically?

There is no good reason other than the thought process that embodies Obama. Why would he so adamantly state that business owners weren't responsible for their efforts? Is this a president that is business friendly? Not when he states that others needed to help them.

Notice it never mentioned the people that helped him achieve the presidency... it was only business owners... narcissist egotist!

Terrific ad by the Obama Team. Makes Romney look even more inept at his lies.

As one of his qualifications for president, Mitt Romney claims he saved the Salt Lake City Olympics. What he fails to mention is that he needed millions of tax payer dollars to do it. So did Mitt Romney save the Olympics on his own or did others along the way help him?

What is Mitt Romney hiding? Why doesn't he release his tax returns? How about those off-shore tax havens? How can anyone trust Romney when he refuses to be honest with the American people?

And now Red Dev has taken the conversation to that of Racism.

Wow - WCA agrees his fellow right wing birther nut jobs are racists. Who'da thunk? I had been told they were simply birthers and it had nothing to do with race.

Oh, and WCA, since you know so much about the auto industry, how do you explain this little ole problem of Henry Ford getting help from investors to found what eventually became his own little company:

After two unsuccessful attempts to establish a company to manufacture automobiles, the Ford Motor Company was incorporated in 1903 with Henry Ford as vice-president and chief engineer. http://www.hfmgv.org/exhibits/hf/default.asp

Tell us again, how he did it all on his own-some, lonesome. Now, I for one, consider Ford one of the greatest businessmen and inventors of modern times. But I'm not foolish enough to know he did it all on his own.

Oh, speaking of which, how's about that other little example provided by Romney - Steve Jobs, the single-handed founder of Apple. Ya see, it was a collaboration between Jobs, Woniak, and gasp, Wayne, that founded the company and started the production and sale of the first Apple product. But hey, you knew that, right?

No one has put down hard work but none of us got where we are alone.

Gosh SeepingSanity, I gave kudos to Ms. Carroll, ackowledged roads and bridges and even thanked cows for giving us hamburgers.

your post is meaningless.

No problems, cows wouldn't have understood it either ..... and I still like them.

Btw - You don't have really, really big brown eyes too do you?

They get it from successful people and businesses.

No they get it from all of us not just the successful.

Layton, good one, "the Stepford dinner table."

Nomoresameo, great rebuttals to WCA.

Phine, it must just be you. President Obama had to respond to the Romney distortion of his words especially when Romney essentially said the same thing. It's politics. The only 2-yr old I see is Mitt Romney who whines that President Obama is picking on him for asking that Mitt comply with his own father's precedent of releasing 12 years of taxes. If Romney could give 23 years of them to McCain, why does he feel the American people don't deserve the same disclosure? Take care, we're pulling for you.

What WCA is incapable of understanding is not only did Mittens say he likes to fire people, but his personal history shows us that he likes to fire as many people as he can.

Can't you just see Mitty and Annie high fiving each other when another group of hardworking Americans lose their jobs?

As long as it benefits THEIR bottom line, why in the Romney's distorted, selfish world, that counts as a major success!

The little people are only valuable to serve YOU right, Annie?

Bottom line - most businesses FAIL.

So, and per Obama, it must be the government's fault, right?

See he wants to take credit for the successes, but not the more pervasive failures.

But gosh gang, since it's so darn easy to start and operate successful businesses, what with our always benevolent gov., and since we desperately need to help the unemployed why don't you all go out and start one up.?

Come on Backhouse, Nomoresameo, Jody, Amy, Feisty...get out there and get going.

You are all safe, Obama's got you back.

And after all the private sector is doing fine.

Wait, that was 'out of context' as well, right?

You all are going to need to come up with something else. You do know that.

I think this whole "controversy" as devised up by the Romney campaign is just his rather lame attempt to answer the question, were you or were you not part of Bain Capitol in 2000, 2001 and 2002, when they were busy outsourcing jobs and shutting down companies. You know, when you were the CEO, President, Founder, director and sole shareholder, before you retroactively retired from the company.

BTW are "Corporations [still ] people, my friend" and does Mitt Romney still "not care about the very poor" ?????? Since we are talking about one sentences defining a candidate. I know the answer to the second is no, since Romney plans to kill off the very poor with his ending of Medicare and Medicaid with the Ryan budget.

Jody, Iowa

What is Mitt Romney hiding?

Probably tax evasion. Romney probably knows he will not be the 2012 Republican nominee for president. If so, Romney knows he will be forced to withdraw due to his shady past since he has NOT been fully vetted i.e. his tax returns and the SEC debacle! I'm wondering, if he is a felon, will he pick a VP before the truth comes out? Other issues are his judgement to lack of preparation for Presidency in regards to his off-shore investment interests and his constant flip flops (LIES).

I think it's time for the investigative media to get busy.

4more for 44

Obama/Biden

I think this whole "controversy" as devised up by the Romney campaign

dirp you may be on to something. The Romney campaign must have snuck in, changed the President's speech, drugged him and forced him to say what he said.

easy peasy.

Although I agree with Yellowdog in that Obama's message has been used and embellished to create political points and that what he was trying to say wasnt as black and white as Romney and the GOP are trying to make it no different than the embellishment and inaccurate portrayal of Bain is solely for political pandering by the democrats. However, I find the attempts at defending the actual substance of government taking any credit for business success at the level of the progressives on here like Seeking Sanity beyond laughable.

I do believe that Obama is an ideologue and that he believes that equality of outcomes is something that is acheivable in his utopian society. I think he minimizes the impact that cognitive ability, talent, ambition, hard work, self reliance, determination, education, drive, risk taking have on economic outcomes. Any of you progressives who think that the roads, schools, education, police, army and even government regulation like clean air and food drive success are just plain naive fools who have never ever tried or ran your own small business. For one, everyone pays a fair market price for the use of all of these government support activities (except those at the federal level where the tax system is completely progressive and that those who have already achieved success fund everyone else) via sales taxes, property taxes, tolls, lotteries, excise and gas taxes and state income taxes. We can all point to the exception and provide an example where someone got lucky, hit the lottery, created success without working hard etc but thats the clear exception. Its what each of us does with our own individual talents, ambition, hard work, personal investment. My dad was a chemist whose top salary was $27,000 when his job got transferred to NY. He didnt want to move, was unemployed and after 18 months decided to open a Hallmark store in a brand new strip mall in a small town. He worked 7 days a week 14 hours a day, no vacations as its a cash business and didnt make a dime for 3 years. Fortunately my mom was a teacher and supported us. They are now near 80 and he is still working but he has 3 stores (down from 5) and enjoying much more success due to his hard work and efforts and personal investment. Anyone who thinks he succeeded because of the roads, fireman etc is just plain nuts and he has paid full market value for all of the goverment services. During his ownership period at least 4 other hallmarks, including the one that was already in town when he opened his have closed. So obviously there is something personal about his ability that allowed him to succeed while others failed. So he should thank the government for his success? He somehow owes even more in taxes back to the feds and states because he personally was able to acheive something others couldnt and failed? Its this concept that will keep Obama from victory and why attacking Bain fails in the end. The collective might provide some but only a minimal some factors and the access for economic success but the real success comes from the person. If it werent for the obvious campaigners like SS, I dont really see this as debatable and Obama made an error and should own up to it and either clarify it or admit that due to his lack of anykind of business experience he really doesnt get it.

I dont really believe that Obama hates small businesses or successful people as he surrounds himself with billionaire wealthy successful people. However, I do think he convienently ignores for the purposes of political pandering the attributes that make someone successful because that doesnt fit his political narrative nor does it jive with his far left leaning political base who dont believe that cognitive ability, talent, ambition etc lead to success nor do they believe that self reliance and personal accountability are real in a world that equality of outcomes is desired. You can use the recent Pew Research as an example as how far left they have gone to prove their point. When the conclusion from that research is that upward mobility is no longer achievable in the US when 47% of those borne in the lowest income quintile stay in the lowest quintile but they ignored the statistic that obviously 53% of those did rise and 84% of those were better off than their parents, they clearly are trying to skew the story. But most importantly they convienently forgot to control for education and cognitive ability. Would it surprise Pew I wonder if they found out that two parents with average IQs of 80 achieved economic success in lowest quintile and given that IQ is inherited and the single largest driver of economic success that their kids stayed in the lowest income quintile? Probably not but wouldnt be politically correct to state that even if factually accurate. I am not making a statement regarding income equality or inequality based on Pew, its just not a helpful conclusion without controlling for all of the factors that influence economic success.

Its really a shame that the election is getting focused on what Obama said or what Romney did at Bain because the more important debates should be how have Obama's economic principles worked in this first term and what would either candidate do over the next 4 years to pull us out of the current economic environment.

"The private sector is doing fine."

WTF?

"At a certain point you have earned enough."

Huh?

Have you seen the jobs numbers from just this a.m.?

Seems like they are spinning mighty hard on this one, eh WCA?

Bottom line the incumbent is tied in mid July.

Look at that CBS/NYT poll - Obama is getting crushed by independents.

Oh and Mitt stuck to his guns and told Obama to shove the tax return crap where there is no sun.

Classic.

And just think, only a few more days til the July jobs numbers come out. 400k plus new filings gang, brace for it.

bob - nope I have big blue eyes.

Brianb - you can re-post your lies over and over - they still are just lies!

But you've bought into the GOP's message so it's all you have. Pity ignorance is so transparent!

Once again, SeekingSanity has an outpouring of personal attacks. She likes to refer to those she disagrees with as "liars" or stupid, pathetic or whatever other insults she can hurl. Check her posts at #1.11, 1.16, 1.20, 1.23, 1.26 (really gets hypocritical here), 1.30 and 1.48.

jim/Kirk - I see you're back from being banned and back to your stalking. But then, that's really all you've got isn't it? Have fun little boy!

bob - if I die before the election I promise to come back and haunt you. Your comment about the deceased voting I took VERY personally.

Only thing I am caring about today, is not these stupid July polls - but being able to eat something and if Dwight Howard gets traded to the Lakers.

Spin anyway you want. It still equals ailed Presidency. Worst EVER.

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED

Can't you just see Mitty and Annie high fiving each other when another group of hardworking Americans lose their jobs?

Yup, newday

I can also see Queen Anne and her puppet the same way I saw Bernie Madoff.

4more for 44

Obama/Biden

phinephancy - you're going to live far past the election. I just know it. My guess is Bob is already haunted by the ghosts of good people who've left this earth. That's probably why he's so miserable!

Hope the tummy cooperates and that Howard ends up wherever you want!

bob - if I die before the election I promise to come back and haunt you. Your comment about the deceased voting I took VERY personally.

Phine,

Please stop & consider the source! The man has NO soul so you wouldn't be able to haunt him! lol

On a serious note, I don't want you to even be thinking that way!

I & many others are sending positive vibes your way & you are going to be around for many... many.... elections to come!

Don't make me come down there... ;o)

Seeking Sanity--got news for you as I was never banned and didnt even know that Jim did. So far he was pretty accurate dont you think? Not sure you are someone that is worthy of stalking as you are just a campaigner with no objectivity and thus no credibility. No one cares what an Obama campaigner thinks. At least many of the other true believer progressives on here have some passion to defend an issue while trying to provide support for whatever issue is being discussed. To date with me, you have never even attempted at debate and just spew your campaign personal attacks and hatred. What do you think the over under is on how many times you will use the words, "circular", "idiot", "low information", "stupid", "pathetic" or other words of derision to describe me after this post? What do you think the over/under is on the number of substantive comments provided to refute any points I may have made? (I will give you a hint its zero).

Sanity

I keep hoping Howard will stay in Orlando and they get him some shooters to back him up.

As for food - I just sent Phil out to Fireshouse Subs. Beats hospital vegi lasagne!

Feisty

Only way I won't make it to election day is if I continue with this sucky food! Vwgi lasagne is just plain awful.

@Seeking Sanity #1.50, LOL ! It looks like YOU are the one stalking me !! Funny how I post something and you have a reply in less than 3 minutes !!!

It looks like you still have Kirk on your mind ..... ever since that day he OWNED YOU in that little debate you had. Of course, anyone with coherent thought processes could see our writing styles are substantially different. My paragraphs are much shorter ... and I like using the ellipsis for effect. Hey, dream on in your fantasy world if you think we are the same.

Oh, the "banned" thing ? Obviously you are not telling the truth or I would not be here posting today !

It is quite humorous, however, that usage of terms like "rethuglicans", "repukes", "tea tards" etc, etc ad nauseam is apparently ACCEPTABLE to Tyler on this website, but usage of terminology such as "libtard" will get you suspended for a day. But that's okay, I was cleaning up my messy office most of that day anyway.

But you Sanity, you get quite vicious in your personal attacks, on a wide variety of posters ..... and yet you never seem to get rebuked in the slightest. Why is that ? Are you on the payroll of MSNBC as a troll ??

Hi phine

I think of you everyday and hear you reaching out in such a beautiful way. I admire your courage. Hang in there you have a lot to offer. It would be remiss if we didn't hear your pearls of wisdom.

Old soldiers never die.

Ignore Booby trap. He gets caught up in lots of tangled webs.

Feisty,

You are always welcomed here. Got a terrific pool and gym. Have booked the clubhouse for 6/1/2013 for big celebration to mark my winning this for life!

Everyone from FR is invited. June in NE FLA is a lovely time to visit.

Kirk,

As always, great post.

phinephancy, Perhaps, you will not accept kind comments from a conservative poster, but I truly wish you the best ! For some time now, I have been praying for a number of people I know struggling with cancer or similar diseases. The 35 year old daughter of one of my good friends was laid to rest last week. But we have another lady here at work who is undergoing Series #3 of chemo..... and her resilience is amazing !

I will continue to wish you the very best and look forward to wrangling with you politically NEXT YEAR and beyond ! Good luck !!

Jim,

I accept alll posts and you are invited to the party! No speedos please!

LOL ! I gave those up years ago. I only wore then once or twice when scuba diving. Now scuba diving is where beauty and relaxation can be had courtesy of air tanks, mask and flippers.

Would you like me to add you to my prayer list ? I can promise nothing, but I do not think it would hurt.

Have booked the clubhouse for 6/1/2013 for big celebration to mark my winning this for life!

You know I already have it on my calendar! Wouldn't miss it for the world!

No speedos please!

Good to see that chemo crap hasn't robbed you of your wicked sense of humor! lmao!

Would you like me to add you to my prayer list ? I can promise nothing, but I do not think it would hurt

WOWZA!

Who would of EVER guessed I would vote for a comment made by Jim! Nice work sir!

Romney or Rmoney its cool to change two letters in his name to see what Rmoney is all about. Thats money.

jim

I will accept all the prayers and candles and good wishes. I have an 11 year old granddaughter I want to see run in the Olympics in 10 years!

It was so nice when Mrs. Spanky found her husband and put him in rehab. I guess he's out now (but still fragile no doubt-ha).

Romney needs to pull up his big boy pants. He's playing in the the big leagues now. His nasty attacks, lame excuses, and Romneyeque Vagaries will fly like a lead balloon -- The old lies won't work on a sitting president who has been well vetted and is well known and well liked.

Romney, YOU are the one giving voters the jitters. If Team Romney and supporters think this can be merely a referendum, the Swiss-boating is just the beginning for their Bain Damaged candidate. Drip, drip all the way to November...

Unaffiliated 2012 and the rest, too bad Fox Nation shut down their forum. Your cancer is now infecting FR, gagh!

bob - 180 - your post is meaningless.

as are the rest of them.

And, your need to "brag" about your possessions is so childish.

which implies he never had them.

Sad little man - really! Perhaps you need a few more sessions with your therapist.

a therapist can't help. This guy is convinced he's smarter than all of us because he keeps his Webster's handy to pick out all of those big words. Also thinks he's humorous too. Not even close. Sad thing is, you usually find Bob posting all night and into the wee hours of the morning, suggesting a very shallow life. Doesn't surprise me. Most RWNJ's have no life and are angry because of it. Bob fits the pattern perfectly.

Ouch, another zinger for my pal TruePatriot.

But tell us TruePat - drip drip? Really?

The incumbent is down in mid-July.

The independent poll numbers are off the hook bad for Obama.

So drip, drip - no. This here is a flood and O is drowning.

Carry on TruePat. This here is getting to be a rout.

Romney will be walking into deeper doo as he edges ever closer to his inevitable loss to President Obama in November: shady financial deals, unreported assets, Swiss bank accounts, on-again, off-again operation of Bain Capital, witless gaffes, vague uninspiring sound bites, etc., etc...they will dog his every step until the American people shout, "Hold, enough!"

President Obama in November! He clearly is our only rational choice!

Nothing in life is free; except if you're Willard "Myth" R-money and other Robber Barons who steal from the middle class and the poor.

Poor Bev the Chitown organizer, she just doesn't get it! While Barry is too 'busy' to meet with HIS jobs committee (for over 6 months now) because he is out performing multiple fundraisers, the economy is slipping further into the toilet! And you want to talk outsourcing Bev old gal? Barry is the expert and he's doing it with our money. Take a hike Bev, you have nothing! And take Barry with you!

Sailcat--are we voting for an effective financial leader for president or are we voting for your personal perspective historical behavior? For example, would you call Obama's sale of 10 feet of his backyard to Tony "the fixer" Rezco currently sitting in jail for several hundred thousand dollars a shady business deal? How about Whitewater or Hillary's CBOE trades, or Rahm's $7 million dollar bonus and salary for one year's efforts at Goldman Sachs in between political jobs? I assume you would call those shady but certainly didnt keep Clinton from being a great president. So you think walking down the street and depositing money with Credit Suisse is bad? Do you get all upset when that Swiss resident puts money into Chase bank accounts? How incredibily 1800s of you when we used to ride horses to work. Vague uninspiring sound bites? Really? Even if true would you really hypothetically speaking vote for an incompetent sitting president over a successful financial leader and highly qualified candidate over uninspiring sound bites?

Golly gang (Stinky, Brianb, and Kirk), did you hear about this?

BREAKING NEWS: The real infiltration of the Muslim Brotherhood has just been discovered. Mohammed Morsi the winner of the election in Egypt is Grover Norquist's twin brother! Separated at birth, Norquist was adopted by American parents, but learned of his twin in 1985. If Republicans hold a black light over their Tax Protection Pledge, they will see invisible ink with an oath to the Muslim Brotherhood.

Look at photos of both men side-by-side and judge for yourself. I bet this is going to become a super big story!

But seriously, the reason the rightwing loves to muddy these terms, for example "European" and now Romney repeating "foreign" is to try to paint the president as something "Other." It all gets back to racism and lies about his religion and plain bigotry. The Republican Party has always been a sanctuary for bigots, so sad.

Let's talk about "Other." Stephen Colbert pointed out something interesting -- that Nevada (for example) is trying to remove the option of "None of the above" from the ballot before the 2012 presidential election. Why? Because Romney IS "None of the above" and doesn't want to compete with the actual "None of the above" option.

So ask yourselves, what's worse? Being 'Other" or being "None of the above" and it becomes clear why Teapublicans are SO desperate to paint the president as "Other."

In the meantime, we'll see how many Teapublicans vote for the Bring Jobs Home Act today. Maybe the media will ask Romney where he stands on this bill?

Romney -- He's not in it for you. Obama/Biden - 2012!

Highly qualified candidate?

I just don't see it.

Highly qualified to run a venture capital firm, certainly.

But not highly qualified to be a governor, which is why he was loathed in MA.

And certainly not highly qualified to be a president, where half the job is standing up to your own party and yelling 'no' when they get out of hand.

History has proven Romney doesn't have the cajones for that.

He doesn't even have the cajones to stand up and take the credit and punishment for his own legislation in MA.

Or the fact he was, by SEC filing, the CEO of an abortion-disposal company.

He's not highly qualified for public office in any way whatsoever.

But he was a very good venture capitalist.

He can 'make a deal' with the best of them, no doubt about it.

But if that's all it takes, then a mob boss would be an epic president as well. You take the deal or you sleep with the fishies.

Vegas odds for betting folks:

Recently, we've seen a big shift in the most recent 2012 Election odds going back to the Democrats and President Obama. In the last few days, the line for the Democrats has moved significantly (from -155 to -170) which would mean Obama is back on the upswing.

...Beyond which party will win the election, as well as the people who will receive nominations from their parties, online sportsbooks are primarily focusing on who will win the election outright. Most have listed at least ten different people to win the election, and only a few of the names are truly surprising. The whole thing is totally up in the air, but there is one clear favorite - Barack Obama. Being that only 12 presidents have served a single elected term, with only two of these in the last 50 years, it is likely that President Obama will once again win his reelection - especially due to his relatively high approval ratings. Obama announced his bid for reelection on April 4th, 2011, and he had received more than 10,000 online donations in the first 24 hours in which this was possible.

The donations for the president don't compare to the HUGE $$$ Romney is getting from 17 cranky gazillionaires, including the crook Sheldon Adelson. However this is important not only in terms of vetting via true grassroots support, Romney running as the generic alternative with an "R" next to his name will only get votes from the rightwing core, and that won't be enough to win the election.

Romney has yet to provide a compelling reason why voters should switch horses mid-stream. If he continues to attack the president--especially on a personal level and conspiracy theory way, and continues trying to deflect his own flaws, Romney will lose. And rightfully so.

Come clean Romney!

"Sailcat--are we voting for an effective financial leader for president or are we voting for your personal perspective historical behavior?"

If by effective you mean "dishonest", "unethical", and "shifty", and if by personal perspective historical behavior you mean "and everyone knows it, too", then I wholeheartedly agree. Romney is in no way equipped to take on the job of President of the United States.

Sorry folks, except for Ms. Phancy (and Jiim's well wishes) I didn't pay attention to anyother other posts.

I'm sitll visualizing Bob's comment "Later it wasn't a bridge that got to me work .... it was a cool Austin Heally 3000 that I worked my azz off for" . . . if that bridge wasn't there.

vrooooommmmm . . . . SPLASH!

We all know Romney is anything but "highly qualified" for anything where he isn't propped up by Daddy's rep and big money. He isn't even allowed to talk to reporters nor answer their questions.

He is qualified for nothing except in the GOP's eyes. Again, THIS is the best they have? So sad. Even Republicans are losing interest and showing embarrassment!

Matthew - just read your post and still chuckling! That was a good one!

Obama/Biden 2012

teknishan - WTF are you talking about? Do you have Alzheimer's? What about community organizer is presidential material? Community Organizer... The largest decision Obama made while in that capacity was whether or not he was going to eat bologna or ham for lunch.

So now Obama admits he's the prince of the Borg... He's the leader of the collective... he's ready to make the announcement that every person in the country is going to have to wear their mechanized/computerized gear so he can keep total control over our actions.

Notice Obama didn't say that he become president with anyone's help... he arrived there all by himself. Since he walks a little above the ground, he don't need no bridge or road... he hovers above water so he don't need no dam boat either... nobody helped him. The collective has to worship him... but if you started a business you ain't sh!t.

Sailcat-2064101

If by effective you mean "dishonest", "unethical", and "shifty", and if by personal perspective historical behavior you mean "and everyone knows it, too", then I wholeheartedly agree. Romney is in no way equipped to take on the job of President of the United States.

Well said!

Brianb, did you compare the photos of Morsi and Norquist? You and Stinky and gang, stop changing the subject. And be original -- stop stealing my material.

You liberals describe Obama everytime you talk about Romney... words like dishonest, unethical, shifty... they are perfect fits for a president that lies to us on a daily basis.

TruePatriot - Brianb has become such a lapdog for Romney he believes all the sh*t he spouts and he had the GOP talking lines down pat. They couldn't recognize honesty and intelligence no matter what. They are truly brainwashed by Romney. It's pretty sickening!

Wow, a couple of days spent arguing about what Obama said, what he meant, context, and delivery. This on the tail of Romney's tax returns. At least these all-important side issues /sarc, provide both sides an excuse to not talk about plans for the next 4 years. Plans like A Green New Deal for America! At least the Green Party is putting plans out there.

Stein/Honkala 2012

Mitt was born with a silver...foot in the mouth, and now is coming down with 'foot and mouth' syndrome.

Mitt can't get it right, sounding really suspicious.

Chucky Stuart -- The lies about what the president said will be gone soon, but not the matter of tax returns.

SeekingSanity -- The usual suspects are bad enough, but since Fox Nation shut down their forum, and now that the Team Romney/Karl Rove Collapse Gestapo are hard at work, we can see what a cesspool it must be at The Blaze or Fox.

And look at post #1.84 -- It's nothing but GOPee Wee Herman "I know you are, but what am I?," and schoolyard "I'm rubber, you're glue" false equivalency, fallacious argumentation, and Projection Politics -- In which the rightwing is so void of original thought that Romney even tried to steal the slogan of "change" last time around.

Low-information voters don't see it (mostly the GOP/TP base). Hopefully after the Olympics when folks start paying more attention, they will realize Romney is selling snake oil and is not qualified for the highest office in the land.

Its a simple argument that can be easily illustrated. Steve Jobs came up with a great idea: the IPhone. If it were not for the miners that mine the ore that gets processed into copper, gold, and platinum (all used to make components for the IPhone) his idea would have been meaningless.

Obama can NOT run on his sorry record!!

[I]f you don't have any fresh ideas, then you use stale tactics to scare the voters. If you don't have a record to run on, then you paint your opponent as someone people should run from." That is what Barack Obama said when he accepted his party's presidential nomination in 2008. Four years later, it reads like a prophetic description of his re-election campaign.
See story in washingtonexaminer.com

I'm sitll visualizing Bob's comment "Later it wasn't a bridge that got to me work .... it was a cool Austin Heally 3000 that I worked my azz off for" . . . if that bridge wasn't there.

vrooooommmmm . . . . SPLASH!

Which is really the whole point of President Obama's comments. Yes, Bob worked hard for the money it took to buy that Healey. In Indonesia all that hard work might've gotten him a tin shed and the privilege of not starving to death. Here in America that hard work put him in touch with customers (directly if he was self-employed, indirectly if working for someone else) who provided the money for that Healey. It also gave him roads that were built by generations of Americans and constantly improved over time.

No man is an island.

The FYIGM crowd will never get that.

Kirk , your post earlier was DEAD ON !!! It's to bad the logic you showed couldn't get thru to OBAMA LIBERALS as , as you know they are blindly following the anointed one to defeat in the upcoming elections !!! Vote for anyone but the LIBERAL MARXIST OBAMA !!! He's ruining our economy with his plans of redistributing our income !!

Really, the guy who brought up WHITEWATER was DEAD ON?

History will not look well upon this time when the Republican Party mainstreamed crazy.

If you LIBERALS wright the history books going forward it will be looked at as the record books on baseball, totally useless !!! HA, HA vote for anyone but the OBAMA this time and get America back in NOVEMBER !

That is probably one of your best posts ever ! Did you learn that from Feasty ?

They do this all day trying to be first. It is funny.

I stumbled onto first yesterday. I guess I was a little quicker on the draw, but several of the liberals collapsed me anyway... Liberals... you gotta love them.

BB

Right or left. Rich or poor. We need to show love and respect to each other ALL the time. Life is too short. Trust me on that!

Phancy - Now if only the name calling liberals would hear you we might have some harmony around here. Hope you are feeling good today.

Brianb - as always, ignoring the right wingers name calling. Nothing we don't expect of you and so Republican!

Now if only the name calling liberals would hear you we might have some harmony around here

Too bad Brian can't even follow his own advice! Not to mention can't remember what he said 15 minutes ago!

teknishan - WTF are you talking about? Do you have Alzheimer's?

Someone has Alzheimer's... but... it's not tek! ;o)

Feisty - check your e-mails!

Phinephancy,

My heart warms when I see your posts pop up. It's good to see you.

Life is too short. Work hard, stay strong and make life a little longer.

Keeping you in my prayers. Your family too. And praying for your doctors so they take good care of you.

"struggling to support the first bi-racial president"

EFF OFF on your 18th century pushbike.

retiredceo .... I'm not surprised that you do nothing but post lies and hate as I'm sure WalMart rejected your retired butt as a greeter.

Obama is only using his skill-sets as a community organizer to pit two sides against each other, nothing more.

Retired -

Do you mean when O created the Tea-Party, and backed their overthrow of the house in 2010, so he could divide everyone? Yeah, that Obammma is a devious character.....

Obama/Biden 2012

Hi SeekingSanity

WCA - you're deliberately lying about what he said. Isn't it pathetic that the only way the Republicans can beat this man is to constantly lie and lie and lie.

Let's not forget voter suppression and faculty voting machines.

Cheat to win that's the GOP/ T-Bagger way

4 more for 44

Obama/Biden 2012

Incestuous Amplification: A condition in warfare where one only listens to those who are already in lock-step agreement, reinforcing set beliefs and creating a situation ripe for miscalculation.

-Jane's Defense Weekly

Now Barack Hussein Obama is using the Incestuous Amplification Effect as a desperate measure to save his sorry a$$! Tell a lie(s) often enough and even he and his minions will believe it! Don't think it will work on any informed voter though.... sorry progressives, your time is short!

Romney/Rubio(!) 2012

Pride and Joy, that should say Willard "Mitt" Romney is using the Incestuous Amplification Effect as a desperate measure to sell himself as trustworthy; too bad everything that comes from his mouth is a lie amplified by FOX, Limbaugh and the puppet-string pullers.

Obama/Biden 2012.

Pride

The President was just pointing out how often

Willard (and Fox News edits) the President's remarks.

Pride and Joy

Can you enumerate lies or a lie President Obama has told from a website other than conservative media, right wing talk radio, hateful websites like birther ones, WND, red state, breibart.com Drudge, Rush Limbaugh, or FOX NOISE?

I'm only asking for constituency and comparision. Most of these dreadful media outlets use the same talking point over and over or they skew and distort the context of our President's words and actions.

The word of the day yesterday was "foreign". Just about everyday it's President Obama has "tripled or doubled our debt" and "socialism".

@ Bev

Maybe, some of them thought Romney was talking about his "foreign" policy.

An issue he never talks about.

Or was he trying to get them to forget he does his banking in a foreign country.

No, they got it Romney was trying to make the President seem foreign.

Obama 2012

sandy - banking in a foreign country IS Romney's foreign policy. Didn't cha know?

Backhouse

"struggling to support the first bi-racial president"

EFF OFF on your 18th century pushbike.

My, my. Such a dynamic retort there navy boy.

Really, retiredceo, if your repertoire of arguments has been reduced to making fun of the President's racial heritage, your arguments are meaningless and worthless. They say more about you, in fact, than they do about anything else.

Fail.

Retiredceo

Your self portrait dressing in drag is not very flattering.

Suggestion: You want to come out, get a new self portrait.

The most likely ticket will be Romney/Pawlenty. So folks who want something else, keep dreaming. Heck, folks who support Romney as the front runner forgetaboutit.

Sandy -

Romney doesn't talk about foreign policy because he wants to hide secret foreign policy agenda - that is ... outsourcing American jobs to make more blood diamonds in foreign sweat shops to enrich this vulture himself and other fellow vultures, and then move his wealth to his Swiss accounts and tax havens such as the Bermuda and Cayman Islands to avoid taxes all patriotic Americans pay.

WHATS A DUSH????? just wondering

WHATS A DUSH????? just wondering

Douche! Such as in"Willard is a Douche-bag"....

Or jagoff, that'll work too.

Bob - I always have to laugh at the pathetic attempts by you guys to paint the picture that our President is participating in and fostering class warfare - the one thing the GOP has shown to be adept at for the last 3 1/2 years.

President Obama has no resentment of private sector success - he embraces it. He just calls it as he sees it - which is true. No one got where they are - with their wealth - on their own. And, hate to break it to you but, there are more wealthy Democrats than Republicans. Try to grown up. You really look envious and more pathetic than usual.

Obama/Biden 2012

The worst lines are not saying "You didnt build that", it was the insult that being smart and hardworking had little to do with success, it is the Almighty God of Government

Vag-Bob,

Why don't you just STFU and read comment #1.1 - It particularly pertains to you!!!!

Obama/Biden 2012

I remember Sept 11, 2001, coming into work at the call center where I was an order-taker, and seeing the TV broadcasting images from New York of the burning towers. I went into the ladies room, for privacy, and prayed for the people jumping from the buildings and for the First Responders. Then I asked God what I should do, and the answer came to me: just do your job.

I went to my seat and proceeded to take order calls. The announcement came, that if anyone wanted to go home, they could. Some of my co-workers left work en masse and went to the American Red Cross to help collect blood.

Clients were still calling in orders and would also talk about what was happening on TV. It was stressful and frightening. All around me, upper management were leaving, supervisors were leaving, and team leaders were leaving. Pretty soon it was just us lowly order-takers, typing away and taking calls.

It was only in the evening, that I saw a second shift team leader show up for work. He happened to be a disabled Vietnam Vet. I told him we'd been working without a leader for hours. I thanked him for showing up and he said "well, this is my job."

It seems to me, the message the Republicans have is, that 1%'ers are the "job creators," and if you don't make much money you are a drag on the country, a person who may potentially ask for a handout. I never had health insurance at that call center job, so Republicans would say, well, you should have gotten a better job. (Which, I eventually did.) But I say, the highest paid Americans are not necessarily the ones that keep things going, when times are tough. When President Obama says to the job creators "you didn't do this alone," I think he's thinking of people like me, who take the calls, and carry out the work, and keep those businesses running.

Amy, I wish I knew what you are talking about, but...what are you talking about?

VP Bob,

Did you watch the top clip of Willard saying just about the same thing as the President, or did it fall into that republican bubble where facts can't get into your little heads?

I have a much different experience from September 11. A large part of our company is in Manhattan and several were personally affected by the losses in the twin towers. All levels of our company including top level executives pulled together to provide financial/moral and personal support during this tragedy. That is what is truly takes to be successful.

bubblegum!

ksw62118

Point being, there are "job creators" and there are "people who do their jobs" and the former wouldn't make nearly as much money, if it were't for the latter.

I have an even better experience. When those working near the E-Ring at the Pentagon were displaced, we setup offices in Cyrstal City. We worked hand in hand with Dell who shipped us all the computer equipment we needed free of charge.

JFK- Amy is illustrating the mindset of the liberal. See, she took orders- that meant, she was the one responsible for the business. Not the person or persons who built the business, put up the capital, funded the research that resulted in products, funded the plant that built the products, took all the risks and plowed the money back into the company. . .

Nope. AMY should have been given all the profits- because she took the orders.

If you've read Marx, you understand the concept. And you have proof- given in your very own lifetime- about how well that works. Like, with the economic success story that was the Soviet Union.

But, I digress. See, Amy deserves all the profits because she took the orders! She was diligent - as diligent as she is now with her phone answering duties- which is on display, daily, as she posts on this board from her vitally important job, for which she should reap all the profits, since, after all, she is the one answering the phone.

Don't try to understand it. Just nod and smile.

Nodding and Smiling...

ksw,

Both your experience and Amy's on 9/11 tell the same story. It was a day this country and every person pulled together for the common good in the midst of the tragedy .

I find it very odd that you use the word" successful" in this context.

I would have said "that is what it takes to be BE a country, everyone doing their part."

I don't ask for all the profits, just a little respect.

Don't try to understand it. Just nod and smile.

At least Amy is HONEST about what she did for a living!

Unlike *ahem* some people we know...

Still getting off putting people down... eh...Donna?

Out of one side of your lying lips you bitch & moan about free-loaders, while out of the other you, belittle people who don't have the cushy corner office!

How very elitist of you Donna - you sure are one classy broad!

The other side of Amy's coin is if you did not have job creators you would have no job to do. I don't believe the majority of "1%" as you call them think they can do without their employees. But to read Amy's story, all the executives went home and the lowly worker soldiered on to run the company.

Anyone who has built a large successful business knows that business relies on the hard work of each and every employee and, in some cases, on other businesses and government.

Would Microsoft be where it is today if IBM didn't give them the right to produce all of the operating software for the IBM desk top machines ? Would Papa John's pizza be one of the best if it didn't get better ingredients from its suppliers and have thousands of dedicated employees following the recipes ?

There is virtually no successful business that is a one man operation, doing everything from taking a customer order to doing whatever service or producing whatever product the customer needs. Even a small autobody shop will have two people, with one helping the other to put on a new fender or to hold up a bumper while the other tightens the bolts.

President Obama was emphasizing that we all can succeed, together, if we all work, TOGETHER, business, workers, unions, and even government. We are all a part of the success we all can obtain, if we work, together.

Anyone who has built a large successful business knows that business relies on the hard work of each and every employee and, in some cases, on other businesses and government.

Would Microsoft be where it is today if IBM didn't give them the right to produce all of the operating software for the IBM desk top machines ? Would Papa John's pizza be one of the best if it didn't get better ingredients from its suppliers and have thousands of dedicated employees following the recipes ?

There is virtually no successful business that is a one man operation, doing everything from taking a customer order to doing whatever service or producing whatever product the customer needs. Even a small auto-body shop will have two people, with one helping the other to put on a new fender or to hold up a bumper while the other tightens the bolts.

President Obama was emphasizing that we all can succeed, together, if we all work, TOGETHER, business, workers, unions, and even government. We are all a part of the success we all can obtain, if we work, together.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Out of one side of your lying lips you bitch & moan about free-loaders, while out of the other you, belittle people who don't have the cushy corner office!

*ahem* No Jo, all blow, has xyz knowledge that is ≠ to truth. It is just all ho, ho hum.

Donna just doesn't get it.

as usual, no joe deflects and then spins the "Marxist" drivel. She doesn't realize that the minute she prints the word every other word she posts is meaningless because she has shown herself to be just another dimwit!

Obama/Biden 2012

Amy

I understood your story. Big money people NEVER care about the ones who earn the profits for them.

HUGS!!!!

Lately we are seeing here, more from the right, where they like to put down or distort what some one says, recently it has been the President who has been the target.

Then we have posters here who think they are better than the next person and have a need to belittle them or how they live their lives.

In trying to make themselves superior or the better candidate, they actually diminish themselves, not their in tended victim.

Bullying is what it is called and nojo is known for it.

Bullying is what it is called and nojo is known for it.

You might say legendary...

phine, My "big money" owner leans the other way. The lady undergoing Series #3 of chemo ? She has aleady bypassed all the rules for Family Medical Leave Act, and yet she is still kept on the payroll. She has not worked in two weeks, yet she got paid for July 4th holiday. Our owner pretty much allows her to come in and work when she is able to work. She had only worked for about 1 year for us when her cancer was discovered !

NEVER is a dangerous word, because there ARE some who go well beyond the law in order to take care of their employees.

jim

You are correct. Not all owners of companies are the same. My bad. Hooray, hubby just came back with food! 5 Guys Burger and fries. Not exactly what was on my tray - vegi lasagne (Shudder)

Phinephancy - 5 guys burger - now that should make you smile! Enjoy!

Phinephancy - 5 guys burger - now that should make you smile!

Sorry girls, this is where I part company with you & the President.

It was the WORST burger I have ever had! BLECH!

Feisty - maybe you had a bad one. I have to say I really liked it! One of the better burgers I've had from a franchise operation!

Feisty - maybe you had a bad one

I can't stand well done beef!

Ah ha! Makes sense then. Their burger is the only beef I like well done. I make an exception for them!

Nojo, without labor, there would be no "job creator" class. Without labor, there would be no massive corporate profits. In other words, without labor, there would be no rich folks.

Just like Mr. Romney doesn't care about the poor and likes to fire people.

You're right Tom, Mitten's doesn't like to fire people. He' just indifferent with respect to them getting fired.....

Obama/Biden 2012

I'm sure that the President has plenty of information on Willard and he will use it.

Hmmm, are you Romney's campaign adviser Autodrive? Or perhaps a psychic?

I hate the mudslinging, however it seems to be effective. Just look at all the threads here, how all the posters jump on the lame talking points, no one wants to really discuss the issues and work together.... much like our congress they seem intent on non-productive jibberish.

Can you say, TAX RETURNS?

Anything on Romney's tax returns will be legal since they have been scrutinized by the ferrets at the IRS. We can't say the same for the Fast and Furious documents that Obama is hiding by Executive Privilege.

Apparently the documents relating to Fast and Furious are so damning to Obama that if they come to light he would not only lose the election, but would also be sent to prison.

Sorry, Kannin, but there is no connection between those two issues. Darryl Issa had ALL the documents he requested, he just wanted more from long after Fast & Furious had been stopped. Issa even admitted there was no wrong doing but that didn't stop the GOPers from voting to hold Eric Holder in contempt. The only contemptible actions I saw was the GOP

I find it odd that those who support Mitt Romney demand so little of him yet they make outrageous demands for inconsequential data from President Obama. They are willing to let Mitt get away with what no other presidential candidate has since Romney's own father set the precedent. They don't care that he has millions in off-shore tax havens while 98% of American pay a higher tax rate than he does. While the amount of money Romney has is of no concern, it does relate to his own proposed tax policies which benefit those like him even more. Since Romney talks about transparency and constantly points his finger at President Obama's administration regarding secrets, Romney is anything but transparent and everything is shrouded in secrecy.

Kanin as resurrected Carnac the Magnificent .. he can now sense the contents of Romney's unpublished tax returns and the memo in question in F/F and has gleaned as fact the one leads to prison, while the other will exonerate. Gotta love those conservatives and their voodoo.

kannin - as anyone who has any understanding of the IRS knows, they don't scrutinize every tax return. How many millions of IRS agents do you think they have? Each year they select a group to audit. Sometimes it's the same people over and over - especially if they've had issues in the past.

Not every return is audited - not even Romney's.

Jody, excellent comment ...

I find it odd that those who support Mitt Romney demand so little of him yet they make outrageous demands for inconsequential data from President Obama

I totally agree and can't believe all of the "vet" comments, "birther" comments, "transcript" comments. He is the PRESIDENT He's already in the Oval Office! We all know how he got there and just need to move forward to make sure he stays there!

Sanity, You are misfiring once again. The bigger the income, the more likely you are to be audited. Just ask anyone with the IRS. With Mitt Romney's income being as high as it is, I am quite sure his CPA firm prepares it VERY CAREFULLY each year, with the FULL EXPECTATION OF BEING AUDITED.

jim - as usual - wrong. Read what I said. I said not everyone's tax return is audited. I did not say with certainty Romney's isn't but there is no guarantee it is. You can't say it is with any certainty. So, as usual when it involves you - I'm correct and your reading comprehension is sorely lacking.

Reading is fundamental, Sanity. I never said you were "WRONG" , I said you were "misfiring" because you are trying to distort the audit selection process. It is not "random" with everyone, regardless of income, having the same chance of being audited. The greater the income, the greater the probability of being selected.

The probability (since his income is one of the highest in the country) will be pretty damn near 99% ... or more. I further explained that his CPA's would prepare it with the EXPECTATION OF AUDIT because he is high-profile.

I hear they are looking for someone to pick the fly $hit out of the pepper. Perhaps, you should apply.

jim - and now you're trying to deflect your mistake to me. It is what I've come to expect from you. You don't have facts then try to make it so others make the mistakes when it is you. Misfiring would be a step up for you.

Typical jim. I hear you already have the flypaper job nailed. And, it's still above your paygrade!

You can't keep up jim. You prove it daily, then try to put me down and look stupider. You'd be better off stopping while you're behind.

And where the hell are you buying pepper that it has sh*t in it? Typical Republican - never striving for the best!

Oh, no need to imagine -- 2008 was indication enough. With the HUGE $$$ from gazillionaires like Sheldon Adelson it will be in larger volume is all. But they are using old crap from 2008 that didn't work in 2008, so why would it work now?

Using personal conspiracy attacks is more likely to backfire on Romney and his SuperPACS. Only the rabid radicals like that BS, and who care about them? The swing voters will be turned off by it. Even people like Frank Luntz are skeptical right now.

I say bring it on Team Romney morons, and keep the tax returns in the news cycle.

It's hard to believe that the fanatic libs here are suggesting that Romney would file a fraudulent return simply in the hope that it wouldn't get audited? They are truly grasping at straws.

If they have to go so far out into fantasy land to justify voting for Obama, their gullibility has got to be near its breaking point.

Kannin - says a person who would vote for the empty suit Mitt. You truly have no business putting anyone down. Romney, please!

Apparently, the tax breaks they get isn't help. The roads, bridges, internet and infrastructure they use to startup and stay in business is ALL thanks to the private sector. Let's give them free reign cause we all know they have the working class and their best interests.

How can we be sure that Romney's returns were scrutinized by the IRS ferrets? Do you know they were audited ? If they were audited (and thus, presumably, legal) WHY won't he release them ?

As to the GOP fishing expedition, intent on embarrassing the Democratic President, because that's what it was no more need be said.

Good point, dirp. I seriously doubt the thousand page tax returns were gone through item by item; the IRS doesn't have the staff for that.

Jody, Iowa

Good point, dirp. I seriously doubt the thousand page tax returns were gone through item by item; the IRS doesn't have the staff for that

You guys took the words out of my mouth. Just look at Wesley Snipes. These right wing lemmings will post, do, and say anything; even if the GOP tells them to jump off the cliff.

You guys took the words out of my mouth. Just look at Wesley Snipes. These right wing lemmings will post, do, and say anything; even if the GOP tells them to jump off the cliff.

It's because they have NOTHING else :)

It's because they have NOTHING else :)

Hiya GF!

Long time... no see! Hope everything is all good on your end!

PS: ♥ the new avatar!

Gee Nathan, are you equally upset at the Democrat's "dishonest, attack-ad campaigning"? Somehow I doubt it.

FactCheck.Org, July 2, 2012 - “And after reviewing evidence cited by the Obama campaign, we reaffirm our conclusion that Romney left the helm of Bain Capital when he took a leave of absence in 1999 to run the Salt Lake City Organizing Committee for the 2002 Winter Olympics – as he has said repeatedly — and never returned to active management. The Obama campaign’s recent ads thus mislead when they point to investments made by Bain, as well as management decisions made by companies in which Bain invested, after that time.

What does the Obama campaign have in rebuttal? Very little, and none of it convincing in our judgment.”

What does the Obama campaign have in rebuttal?

FactCheck didn't address the SEC documents Romney filed between 1999-2001 which list him as “sole stockholder, chairman of the board, chief executive officer, and president.”

Obama gets 3 Pinocchios from the Washington Post for his latest tweet:

"FACT: In 2010 and 2011, Romney paid less than 15% in taxes on $42.5 million in income -- much less than what many middle-class families pay."

-- Tweet by @BarackObama, July 3, 2012

So, is it really true that the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, who is very wealthy, pays a tax rate "much less" than "many" middle-class families?

Good question ... and the answer is a resounding ''no' ...

... for all the rhetoric about high taxes in the United States, most Americans pay a relatively small percentage of their income in taxes. Second, Romney had an effective rate of 13.9 percent in 2010 and 15.4 percent in 2011, which gives him a higher rate than 80 percent of taxpayers in the first method and puts him just about in the middle of all taxpayers in the second method.

No matter how you slice it, his tax rate is not significantly lower than the tax rate paid by middle-class Americans.

@Amy - FactCheck didn't address the SEC documents Romney filed between 1999-2001

Yes they did, Amy. Also from FactCheck.org:

"Much of the Obama campaign’s letter is devoted to quoting portions of documents filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. In summary, the letter states there are “at least 63 filings with that agency after March 1, 1999 that list various Bain entities and describe them as ‘wholly owned by W. Mitt Romney.’” That’s true, but not relevant.

We have never disputed that Romney remained the owner of Bain while he was running the Olympics committee. The issue always has been, who was running Bain? Nothing in the SEC documents contradicts what Romney has certified as true.

On that point, the Obama campaign cites snippets of a few news clippings to make a case that Romney was still a part-time manager of Bain after he left to run the Olympics. But a close reading shows these news accounts don’t contradict Romney either."

Yes, I'd like both sides to get over the petty attacks and actually talk about the problems facing America and their proposed solutions, weighing the evidence in favor of and against each idea, identifying areas of common ground and disagreement. I'd love for American political campaigns and ads to be about substantive policy debates. I'd also like to see world peace, the end of hunger, freedom of thought and expression for all, a world that abandons superstitious nonsense in favor of rationality, and faster than light space travel. I'm not holding out hope for any of those things in the near future either.

I don't really see the equivalence between the two campaigns. The Obama campaign is stretching things with many of their Bain attacks, but are there examples of them taking Romney's words as blatantly out of context as in this example, or the infamous "If we talk about the economy, we're going to lose" ad? Maybe there are, but I'm not aware of them. Romney's problem is that you can take his words in context to make a perfectly valid attack ad against him.

I think the fuss over when Romney left Bain is overblown, but a lot of it stems from Romney. He wants to take credit for anything positive Bain-related post-1999, but none of the responsibility for anything negative. It doesn't matter much either way, though. Bain is a symptom of the disease, not the cause.

I think Obama is a highly calculating politician. Mitt Romney is far worse. I've said before that Mitt Romney is what you get if you take Obama's negative qualities, double them, and remove the positives. Picking between them is pretty easy, especially when you factor in the rest of the Republican party and their champions like Michele "McCarthy" Bachmann.

Remember that next time you decide to use the internet without the assistance of anything the government does..... no power-grid controls, no satellites, no communications controls....

go ahead.... jump on your bicycle powered generator and put forth your thoughts on CB radio, no one will hear you, but you won't care.

I don't know about you , but I like the socialist better than the fascist

You go BO

grumpy2u - LOL! Good one!

And then you woke up.

Only in Amy's world of walking on hot coals for the President, keeping his picture on her desk to inspire her and running the company all by herself. The two of them can solve all the world's problems.

Gotta love that imagination.

no joe - and yet you never have!

Amy. Who in the world did you work for back then? What products were people ordering? I didn't think there were any Americans not completely glued to the television that day, let alone doing business, placing orders! Holy smokes.

Dont mind Amy, Candice. She has a coworker who utilizes Planned Parenthood for mammograms, when PP does not perform mammograms.

If Amy was the only worker bee in the nation- heck, most of the world- taking orders from people who cared not at all about what was happening that day- well, all I can say is that this comes from a woman who swore shed walk over hot coals for Obama, that she saw Romney speak and has decided he is not intelligent, and has conservative relatives who take welfare and food stamps.

The skies are plaid in Amy's world. . .

The original Tea Partiers were protesting taxation without representation, NOT the mere fact of having to pay taxes. We are lucky to live in a democracy, where we have a say in how our taxes are spent.

When did Republicanism turn into a cult of tax evasion?

UAW: Well guess Romney is an idiot too:

Mitt Romney: Okay, businesses do need government, after all
By Greg Sargent

Great catch by Jed Lewison here. Look at what Mitt Romney said on the campaign trail today:

“There are a lot of people in government who help us and allow us to have an economy that works and allow entrepenuers and business leaders of various kinds to start businesses and create jobs. We all recognize that. That’s an important thing.”

Stop Dragon, private industry was around centuries before the government came about. Businesses just arent going to start paying taxes for roads and teachers if Obama gets reelected. They have been paying taxes for roads and teachers for centuries in America.

Obama sounds alot like his illegal immigrant aunt who thinks the American tax payer is obligated to government waste....

UAW: Just pointing out that you said President Obama was an idiot for saying government helps businesses....and Romney said it too...so by your logic, Romney is an idiot.

Yes, businees have been paying taxes for centuries....which enabled the enviornment for starting a business. Not too difficult to comprehend...is it?

Oh, and Romney used government money to save the Salt Lake Olympics.

So, he agrees with President Obama, then? Good for him. Now tell Mitt to get lost and stop bothering us until he loses in November.

Great catch by Jed Lewison here. Look at what Mitt Romney said on the campaign trail today:

Dragon,

Guess that shoots their current squawking point to @!$%# now doesn't it... lol

disgruntled,

Thank you for that factual post.

I always love it when I get to the end of the first page of responses and find something new.