Romney doesn't know what he believes. He is a pretzel listening to Bush advisors. Come back tomorrow and you'll hear a different story.

Hello everyone. I hope everybody had a great day on the 4th.

Poor MittWitt. Flipper just doesn't have the convictions to take a stand on any issue.

The republicons couldn't care less what would be best for America. All they care about is winning an election.

Between the GNOP doing everything to beat Obama without regard for the average American and the Flipper MittWitt, it's becoming more difficult to understand how anyone from the middle class would ever support anybody but Obama.

Ron -- You bring up an important point. Romney is surrounding himself with BUSH advisors. We all know how that turned out. 8 years those advisors stood around ignoring the housing bubble. Six of the eight years all three branches of government were controlled by Republicans yet they did nothing to stop the housing bubble and as a result we are still feeling the impact of their folly.

And they expect us to trust Republicans again???? Never again, I say. They stole 20 years of economic gains for the middle class and they are now trying to pretend it never happened.

Why have some conservatives always seemed to have problems with basic English words and their meanings?

This time it's Mitt 'Flip' Romney with 'tax' or 'penalty', making him more like Mitt 'the Flop' Romney

Today? Who the hell knows what they're going to call it! Possibly a "penal-tax"? lol

Feisty - oh lord, don't add to their sperm spin bank. Otherwise tomorrows headline on Faux News will be: Obama Implements Biggest "Tax by the Inch" Hike in the History of the Massive Expanding and Growing Universe

tax or penalty...

Mitt is really talking about (1) his assets moved to the Cayman Island to avoid 'taxes' and thus (2) a 'penalty' voters will absolutely give him in the November election.

It's the middle class who can't run and hide and evade taxes. Bush's tax cut gives most of the money away to the rich who then move the new-found wealth offshore.

We can't allow these GOP vultures back in control again in November.

Not ever Nanci Pelosi know what it is, lol. Is it a tax or is it a penalty? I don't think anyone knows.

On another note, some other more conservative news are forecasting a better than expected Jobs report. Good news for everyone.

To Feisty who said:

In the weekly World of Willardo; Monday it was a penalty... Wednesday it is a tax... Today? Who the hell knows what they're going to call it!

Interesting that the Solicitor General argued on day one before the Supreme Court that it was a penalty and not a tax. On day two, it was a tax and not a penalty. Don't think you had a problem with it then.

'The power to tax is the power to destroy'

This is from Chief Justice (1801-35) John Marshall in a landmark decision.

This healthcare tax is to raise funds to cover cost caused by those who can afford but have refused to buy insurance.

This tax will destroy insurance companies' monopoly and deliver justice to protect the vulberable.

Don't think you had a problem with it then.

What I have a problem with is - Willard is downright incapable of taking a position on anything & standing by it!

The man simply has no moral compass & you all are his enablers...

Governor Etch-A-Sketch on the subject of the individual mandate being a "fee":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HymUU7OADbU&feature=relmfu

Do you suppose ol' Mitt gets face cramps from trying to talk out of both sides of his mouth so often?

Do you suppose ol' Mitt gets face cramps from trying to talk out of both sides of his mouth so often?

I guess... I always thought he was talking out of his ass.

What exactly is Romney saying about the health care program that is so bad?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jun/29/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-obamacare-means-20-million-americ/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jun/28/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-obamacare-adds-trillions-deficit/

Well, that's not so good, is it? What does the GOP's favorite attack dog have to say on the subject?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jun/28/rush-limbaugh/health-care-law-not-largest-tax-increase-us-histor/

I guess that's not so surprising, though. Does anyone in the Republican Party have anything to say about the health care program that isn't an outright lie?

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/jul/02/rick-scott/rick-scott-small-business-health-care/

Oh well.

" I always thought he was talking out of his ass."

It's hard to tell, isn't it?

It does not matter what "it" is called Romney can't explain the difference between his Tax and Obama's penalty.

Let's just call it ice cream because most people like it and before too long most people are going to like

Obamacare as much as they like Romneycare and Medicare.

Trust and believe once all of the benefits kick in people are not going to want to give them up.

Plain and simple. Like it or not. Just the nature of the beast.

Like most Americans I don't have a horse in this race. I have great employer sponsored health insurance and if they decide to cancel this perk well I'm glad I can buy Obamacare, what with my pre-existing condition and all.

Just sayin'

Obama is slip sliding away .... "LOL"

Has Obama been ahead of Romney at all in the last several months .... ??

If so , maybe a day or two ....

That's not very good at all ....

Tuesday, July 03, 2012

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows Mitt Romney attracting 47% of the vote, while President Obama earns 44%. Four percent (4%) prefer some other candidate, and five percent (5%) are undecided ....

The individual mandate was called the individual responsibility act by Governor Romney.

Regardless if it is a fine or a tax, anyone that does not have health insurance will pay {period}.

However it is only expected to be less than 3% nationally and decreasing over time. Last year in Mass it was only 1% that didn’t have health insurance and paid.

If you don’t want to pay a tax increase or a penalty then just buy the insurance … stop freeloading off of the rest of us.

Don't_Carry _It— All

"And they expect us to trust Republicans again???? Never again, I say. They stole 20 years of economic gains for the middle class and they are now trying to pretend it never happened."

They acknowlege it happened just that it happened under President Obama and that is why he is forbidden to blame anything on President Bush.

For Republicans, the entire economic disaster occured 01.21.2009.

"Has Obama been ahead of Romney at all in the last several months .... ??"

Let's take a look, shall we?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html

Looks like Rasmussen is the only bit of the scattered debris from Mitt's shattered campaign to which you can cling, Benny! Hope is sustains you until the final blow falls on Romney in November and President Obama is reelected!

ROMNEYCARE for the other 49 states.

Dennis,

If you don’t want to pay a tax increase or a penalty then just buy the insurance … stop freeloading off of the rest of us.

Wait a second, free loader? How very inconstant of you.

No, BeninAlaska.

Obama hasn't been reading Rasmussen these last few months.

Or any months, come to think of it.

No one with half a brain reads Rasmussen.

But Gallup, also somewhat considered 'right-leaning' has Obama up by 4.

What do you make of that, big fella?

it typical

thetotas,

I am proudly retired after over 53 years of employment (mostly management positions) including 6 years in the Navy. As an adult I have always been responsible for everything in my life. How about You?

It is a tax on the middle class as it was when it was originally written. The Republicans were right when they called it a tax. The sad thing is Obama and the Democrats just can't bring themselves around to say it's a tax even though the lead attorney from the Obama administration argued that it was a tax.

Let's review:

• Republicans: It's a tax
• Obama and the Democrats: not a tax
• Obama's lead attorney arguing before the Supreme Court: It's a tax
• Supreme Court: It's a tax

I find it amazing that EVERYONE except Obama and the Democrats believe it to be a tax!!!!! Priceless

I think Willard applied too much lubricant to the weather vane that he uses to decide his positions. So now a "fee" or "penalty" in Willard speak is now a tax, I guess that makes the $700 million in increased fees that Willard raised as Governor of MA taxes now too, doesn't it Willard? I guess it is time to spray some more WD-40 on the weather vane and he will get back to us with an answer.

Of course, and I say that with great pride.

It is a tax on the middle class as it was when it was originally written.

Please provide some specifics on your basis for this determiniation. And do not speak for me...i am middle-class and this law will not affect my tax liability one iota.

thetotas,

[Of course, and I say that with great pride.]

That’s good and you should be proud. So why, knowing almost nothing about me, would you say …

[Wait a second, free loader? How very inconstant of you.] ?

Do you just assume that Democrats are freeloaders? If true then please provide citations/links to support your hypothesis.

Dennis,

Do you just assume that Democrats are freeloaders?

No way, I don't think that way at all. I was just pointing out that normally this is a talking point that some republicans use about entitlements. I never hear this from the left.

Folks are confusing the mandate penalty through the tax code with ACA funding. But regardless, if health care becomes affordable people will participate because people prefer to have health care. The number of people who will actually pay this modest fine will be small.

Then there are the ways ACA will be funded. The majority of it will be raised via FICA withholding from those earning 200,000 or more (in other words the richest 2%) who've needed to pay more of their fair share in FICA withholding all along. You can call this a contribution, a charge, or a payroll tax.

Then there are other taxes, such as the tax on tanning salons. This is a luxury tax that only applies to people who go to tanning salons.

But what you can't call it is a "tax hike" on the middle class, let alone a 'huge" tax on the middle class.

Romney claiming he will repeal ACA on Day 1 is the biggest, flat out, most blatant lie. Next is the Teapublican "repeal and replace" lie. When they talk about the parts of ACA that people like, they say they will keep these. So the next question is then why not just keep ACA? They will claim they can do it cheaper -- Riiiiight, hahahaha.

So let's review. This is NOT a "tax hike" on the middle class (or small businesses). Romney can't repeal ACA on Day 1, even if Teapublicans could get enough seats in the Senate, they will not repeal ACA because it will be too popular and they know dang good and well they don't have a plan of their own that is as good and cost effective.

Even if one says this is a taxes to taxes comparison, Romney doesn't want to go there because his version was "severe."

The GOP and Romney originally wanted to mandate that people post a 10,000 bond if they opted out of the health care program. And if folks start digging into Romney's many "fees" in lieu of taxes, the devastating effects are brought to light.

It doesn't matter what people call it because they nominated the wrong candidate, which will be glaring apparent come debate time. That landslide victory Limbaugh talks about is a fantasy.

Bryan E., PA

Please provide some specifics on your basis for this determiniation.

I already did. Obama's own lead attorney argued that it was a tax before the Supreme Court, then, the Supreme Court ruled it was a tax. To suggest this tax wouldn't be paid by anybody who makes less than 250K annually would, in itself, be a lie. Thus, making this a tax on the middle class.

Here's the bottom line. Over half the States filed suit against the Federal government over having to expand Medicaid which they can't afford. The Supreme Court ruled that it is against the Constitution to penalize the States that don't follow the ObamaCareTax Medicaid expansion by cutting existing funding. This means over half the States that filed suits won't have to participate and won't. Those people that won't be added to the Medicaid program will have to be accepted into the health care exchanges which are fully funded by the Feds. This means the cost of ObamaCareTax will be far greater than originally estimated.

Come 2014, those that currently pay more than 800 dollars annually for medical insurance would simply drop their insurance, pay the tax, and wait until they need the insurance since they can't be denied insurance due to pre-existing conditions. It would be years, if ever, for the tax to exceed the actual annual insurance costs causing those people to avoid the tax and get insurance. This situation will ultimately kill ObamaCareTax since it would already be burdened due to States not absorbing the additional costs with Medicaid in the future.

ObamaCareTax is a losing entitlement that will collapse under its own weight due to increasing costs as time goes by.

Princess Botox Pelosi try not to call the Obamacare penalty a tax, even the Supreme Court make changes in favor of Obamacare, calling it a Tax because otherwise it could be declare unconstitutional, like Ronmey advised said before the ruling of SCOTUS, in the way was originally written. Obamacare is not like Romneycare, but for purpose to confuse the masses leftest Democrats say it is the federal version. Obamacare will TAX ,and IRS is the Federal Institution Assigned to collect the penalties under the TAX code deny it like Pelosi , Obama and the rest of the worshipers will continue denying until they lose the election. Obamacare in unpopular , the majority are still against it, the deficit will increase, will be rationing, people lose their right to chose about their health, doctors will be obligated to take care of more patients in less time, losing the cuality/time per patient. Obamacare is only popular in two talking points, insurance for child's up to 26 , and no pre existent conditions, the rest can go to the toilet, we don't need 3000 pages full of regulations and 50000 to implement the regulations.

That was one big verbal diarrhea all over the place.

Of the ACA 'big provisions';

1. Children on parent's healthcare until 26

2. Cannot be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions. Being a woman, having an ulcer, whatever.

3. Cannot lose your insurance because you get seriously ill. You get cancer, your insurance can't drop you from it.

So...of those 'big provisions', which do you not like?

Oh, I know.

The 'Obama' part?

teknishan

So...of those 'big provisions', which do you not like?

Easy, the un-affordable part. I agree with all of those provisions and should be considered in the reform that will replace ObamaCareTax. But just because there is some good in the law, doesn't mean it is affordable which is to say, ObamaCareTax is NOT affordable due in part the Supreme Court removed the penalty for those States that don't go along with the ObamaCareTax increase in Medicaid. Which I find amusing when you realize ObamaCareTax first cut 500 billion from Medicaid before it tried to shift those costs to the States.

1. Children on parent's healthcare until 26

So, for the sake of argument, insurance companies provide the same coverage for basically rate they had before the 26 year old kiddo was dropped as opposed to a few getting their own coverage at a higher rate while most blow it off because this is the healthiest group, the group that statisitcally costs very little. No big deal.

2. Cannot be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions. Being a woman, having an ulcer, whatever.

Yea, being a woman is an illness ... being healthy and fertile is a disease, huh?

Sheesh ...

3. Cannot lose your insurance because you get seriously ill. You get cancer, your insurance can't drop you from it.

Yea, now you have bureaucrats deciding what kind ... and if you get care.

What is wrong with you guys?

Does the VA ever deny care? How about Medicare ... they ever say no? Medicaid pay for everything without question? What's up with all those attorney ads talking about Social Security benefits being denied? Disability?

Unless you are one of the elite .... one of the politicians .... name a service that doesn't deny care on a regular basis?

So...of those 'big provisions', which do you not like?

The big provisions like it DOES NOTHING TO REDUCE COSTS - CBO has stated the cost the almost trillion dollar cost has already doubled before the start ... the fact that it is a job killer - CBO has stated it will cost a minimun of 800,000 jobs .... the fact that it is unconstitutional, that were flat-out lied to ... the fact that it will bankrupt the country.

Blah, blah, yadda yadda yadda...

The court upheld ACA -- it is the law. Re-litigating this only reminds voters that the mandate was a Republican idea (with a $10,000 bond), and Romney twisting himself into a pretzel over his "fees" in Romneycare only proves you nominated the worst possible candidate.

Get over it.

@RedSoxRule

You can't even copy what someone else says ; Get yourself together before you Disappear!

RedSoxRule - do you have an original thought? You're beginning to sound like Romney - and that sure isn't good!

Obama/Biden 2012

redsuxrule LMAO you crack me up.

RedSoxRule,

I know exactly what you mean. The President is a Liar in Chief. To all the others defenders of our President, please stop Idolizing Obama, you should know the person for what he is and not what you have imagine him to be.

Romney 2012.

Concern, I knew it wouldn't be long before you posted something that truly made me laugh out loud. I don't "idolize" my President, I respect him for standing up and doing a bang-up job in the face of a lot of opposition.

you should know the person for what he is and not what you have imagine him to be.

So, I am anxiously awaiting your response to the person that HE IS versus what you think my "imagination" is of him.

And thought for your day, as far as idolizing, most people tend to idolize celebrities or those they wish they could have their lives for a day, I'm sure you're just salivating over Mitt's little vaca estate and hoping that if he becomes president, he'll show you the path to acquiring an $8 million 13 acre estate for you and yours.

Romney never said it was a penalty. That came from Eric Fehrnstrom. The Romney campaign would do a whole lot better if Romney would just fire Fehrnstrom. He is nothing but trouble.

Bill - the Romney camp would do much better if they just fired Romney. Maybe they should just start all over!

Concern Citizen - do you never tire from making ignorant statements? You truly don't have a clue. You'll vote for Romney - no one knows where he stands on anything -including Romney!

...the Romney camp would do much better if they just fired Romney. Maybe they should just start all over!

LMAO! Now that's an idea! Without Super PACs the Weather Vane would have high-sided the first turn. The Tea Bags and us liberals have something in common, we all know Mitt is full of ----!

nosoldier,

I will vote for President Obama... Conservative party have never shown that they have my best interest in mind. I will never vote against my financial best interest.

an example, conservative budget (the ryan) plan. Privatize medicare, I will pay more for healthcare as a senior.

AND I WILL NOT RECEIVE A TAX BREAK EITHER, ALL THE SAVING, TAX BREAKS GOES TO THE TOP 1% F*&K THAT IDEA!!!!!

To Layton-3733410 who writes:

Concern, I knew it wouldn't be long before you posted something that truly made me laugh out loud. I don't "idolize" my President, I respect him for standing up and doing a bang-up job in the face of a lot of opposition. So, I am anxiously awaiting your response to the person that HE IS versus what you think my "imagination" is of him”.

Here is my answer to your question.

1. Have you ever notice how he raises his chin when he is talking to the masses of to anybody. -- This is a sign of feeling superior to anyone.

2. Have you notice how many times he pauses when speaking ----. This is a sign of not being sure what to say or not knowing what sto say.

3. By his own words in his book, he had issues with identifying his race--- This is an identity issue.

4. By his own account he did heavy drugs and sometimes did not know where he was -------. This is a sign of insecurity and escaping the truth.

5. His Mother and father left him at an early age. ------ This is a sign of rejection.

6. Was brought up in at an early age in Indonesia and force to another culture way different than what he was accustomed to-----. Another identity issue

Do you not think that he was not affected by rejection, battling if he was black/white, Christian/ Muslim at an early age?

Do you not see an issue here, or do you really think he has overcome all this challenges?

To your other idiotic and childish statement.

“as far as idolizing, most people tend to idolize celebrities or those they wish they could have their lives for a day, I'm sure you're just salivating over Mitt's little vaca estate and hoping that if he becomes president, he'll show you the path to acquiring an $8 million 13 acre estate for you and yours”

Again you. on the other hand do not know the difference between Idolizing and Envy. I neither Idolize nor Envy Mitt Romney Both are mere men and when it all gets said and done, they both go to the bathroom like anyone else. Get my drift?

You and some of your lefty friends can not see or question anything that the President does and that is Idolizing.

SeekingSanity, you on the other hand are not worth my time. Which on of you two is the sidekick and foot soldier for Feisty?

Concern - you're not worth anyone's time and your ignorance every time you post shows it.

Someone who pauses before they speak is putting theirs thoughts together instead of speaking then realizing they should have said things differently. It's a sign of a very strong mind and a good thinker. I realize you can't compare that to the idiotic Romney - too bad.

Many people face adversity in their lives. The strong people grow and overcome them, as our President has done. He was raised by loving Grandparents who instilled great values in him.

The fact that you are so petty you need to point out what you have says it all about you. It says you aren't strong enough to face anything so you assume everyone is pathetically like you. We aren't.

It says you need to belittle a man who has come from less than perfect background and achieved a great deal. It indicates you have achieved nothing and can't believe someone else could do better.

The fact that you hold these items so at the ready - to put a very good man down - says everything about you. You are petty, ignorant, weak, have no values, are not even remotely as good as this man so you need to put him down to feel better about yourself.

I'm sure you raised the same concerns about Bush who was an alcoholic and drug user? NOT You're a two-faced hypocrite.

You truly are pathetic and it shows each time you post. Go get some help - you clearly need it.

Obama/Biden 2012

their not theirs

and pathetically weak

Seeking, thanks for the response to that ... I am still floored over this comment by Concern ...

. His Mother and father left him at an early age. ------ This is a sign of rejection

So every child that is possibly abandoned through divorce, etc., according to your reasoning it is THEIR FAULT???? And they're going to wallow around with rejection issues all of their lives?

My parents taught me that the only people who insult those who deserve respect in order to make themselves feel "better" are those who have absolutely no concept of what the word means and thus, have no respect for themselves. Kinda fits the bill here.

DISGUSTING. Insult me all you want and call me names but I agree with Seeking, the fact that you have this list of lies at the ready and actually think they are truths is delusional and definitely paranoid.

Layton - Concern Citizen's entire post revealed he/she has some serious issues relating to her own values about herself. My guess is she needs serious counseling to overcome some slights in her life.

Our President, on the other hand, worked hard and distinguished himself - in spite of some personal set backs at an early stage. He is absolute proof you can overcome obstacles and make something out of less than perfect beginnings.

Again, Concern has serious problems.

SeekingSanity, I can play your game too.

The fact that you are so petty you need to point out what you have says it all about you. It says you aren't strong enough to face anything so you assume everyone is pathetically like you. We aren't.

Your first sentence has misspelled words and is grammatically incorrect. You my friend are not any better.

I have never idolized Bush nor any other President or Actor for that matter. You are the type that would pray to Obama.

SeekingSanity my vote counts as much as yours and I'm a she, I'm Black and I'm Latina. Come mierda. Hasta manana.

A to the Men on that one, Seeking!

Concern - that has got to be one of the more bizarre rants I've read here.

Your "ability" to psychoanalyze a person to "know the person for what he is" is not only unsubstantiated (with respect to the physical/behavioral attributions presented being representative of President Obama's past experiences) but also implies that you believe you personally have the ability to determine the motivational factors that drive the actions of others.

Good luck with that.

Concern - not grammatically incorrect at all. Take a course in writing - you need one - after the counseling. And, I corrected the misspellings in my 2nd post. You are truly a head case!

Again, Concern has serious problems.

Just like her salsa-dancing, cocaine snorting, nightclub hopping sister... lol

Again, this ding-bat makes Edith Bunker look like a Rhodes scholar and as annoying as fingernails on a chalkboard!

SeekingSanity.

Yeah, it would take a racist liberal like you try to put me down. You guys never make a mistake!!!!

My vote counts the same as yours. Romney 2012. and anybody but Joe for VP.

Beisty, Grilfriend, How are you? Keep it coming, now we have racist #2

My bet is that Concerned does not get a lot of eye contact from people he passes on the sidewalk. On the other hand, his vote may count but his opinions are absolutely meaningless.

My bet is that Concerned does not get a lot of eye contact from people he passes on the sidewalk.

LOL!

My bet is upon seeing "it" people promptly cross the street!

Concern - there was absolutely nothing racist in my remarks to you. Apparently reading comprehension is another weakness you possess. Your vote counts but it doesn't make you any less ill.

Obama/Biden 2012

Concern - there was absolutely nothing racist in my remarks to you.

Seeking,

This is her standard M.O. - when unable to come up with any type of coherant answer, she tosses the racist card at you!

This broad is strictly a one trick pony! ;o)

Feisty - I guess! Wow!

Concern - and the "come mierda" shows what a total lowlife you are.

Is she referring to Joe Biden????

Romney 2012. and anybody but Joe for VP.

That's a bit twisted ...

Layton - the entire post was twisted!

That was amazing!

Concern might want to consider that SHE should hesitate long enough to think before she posts!

Wait. That would be a sign of intelligence. Never going to happen.

newday ... late to the party but always thankful for input! :) just a little side-dish of crazy today ....

And Seeking I just looked that up .... gag!!! What a piece of gum on my shoe!

SeekingSanity

Bill - the Romney camp would do much better if they just fired Romney. Maybe they should just start all over!

I think you're on to something... To quote House Speaker John Boehner, they need to rip their flawed nominee out by its roots. They approve of some characteristics of the candidate, but it would be best to repeal the entire campaign and restart a ""commonsense debate." "We need to start over, one step at a time," Boehner said.

TruePat . . .

"We need to start over, one step at a time," Boehner said

I so hope he was referring to the Republican Nominee ... how interesting it would be if they actually changed it up!

Well, thank goodness for concerned's list - I always had a sneaking suspicion I might be presidential, and she has confirmed it.

1. I raise my chin when speaking to groups to ensure my vocal chords and air passage ways remain open. Why, I'll bet almost all TeeVee folks do the same thing.

2. I pause when I speak. I do this to both connect with the audience and to work through the next line. Sometimes I just get plain old silly and pause for affect.

3. My mama always told me I was 57 blends of Caucasian. I always suffered identity issues because I thought my kin folk were steak sauces, and my first name was Heinz. Not to mention I feared being punished for cannibalism every time I smeared the sauce over my steak.

4. I love a imbibing on swanky martini or two with the goal of getting outside of my head. I have also known to dabble with other illicit substances in my youth. I love experimentation and I can tell you I have solved a lot of the world's problems in those altered states.

5. I was separated from my mother at birth when they cut the umbilical cord. Talk about insecurity - I had to learn how to breath, eat, see, smell, crap and pee all in the same week. Haven't been the same since.

6. I was forced to experience another culture when I was 14. I left our rural town and traveled to wild, crazy, sinful, California. WOW, I haven't been that shocked since they sliced the umbilical cord and cut me off from my mom. I had no idea there were places without a Mormon church on every corner. And boy, did my insecure side like it.

Now, where did I leave that massive tax/fee/fine?

Paul,

I have read many comments on these boards about religion as well pro and con.

I for one believe that at the heart of most religious groups their is kindness and good. I have seen many families and individuals cared for by churches in times of need.

The problem that many people have with individuals who claim to be part of a religious group is that they are not truly part of it. They attend services on a given day but never follow through with the true meaning of what the religious group would like of them. Hypocrisy, plain and simple. Very sad.

I personally don't care if a candidate is an atheist, Mormon, protestant, or affiliated with any other religious group. Because of the separation of church and state it doesn't allow for an elected official to do much in the way of their religious beliefs except to possibly be a more kind individual that looks after the best interest of others.

All we have to do is think about each of our previous presidents and ask what religion they were affiliated with? If you can't answer that question, it makes the point that regardless of what affiliation they may have, it doesn't really matter as it doesn't intertwine with their responsibilities of the office.

I disagree. I think it does intertwine. That intertwining isn't always or even usually apparent. But I think it does intertwine. President more so than most jobs - arguably more so than any job - has such expansive responsibilities that it really demands the person doing it put all of him or herself into the work. Who the person really is will come through in the decisions made, the agendas set, the leadership styles used, etc.

We might not see the sausage being made, but we ought to want to know the ingredients with which it's made. A person's beliefs are among those presidential ingredients; arguably the lion share of them.

President more so than most jobs - arguably more so than any job - has such expansive responsibilitiesthat it really demands the person doing it put all of him or herself into the work. Who the person really is will comethrough in the decisions made, the agendas set, the leadership styles used, etc.

I'm not completely disagreeing with you Paul. All I'm saying is that I believe that any major religion being practiced in this country has good will at the heart of their beliefs. For that reason, I don't care what religious affiliation a candidate is associated.

Commentators like to tout Willards devout belief in his Morman faith.

What's difficult is how does any devotion to any religion allow one to destroy someone elses livelyhood while making millions in profits? Is that a principal of any religious belief?

And of course Willards pathological lying....Is that a principal of any religious belief?

Chilled................. my point exactly. Hypocrisy.

I don't beleive that destroying the livelihood of another is in any way part of the Mormon faith. That has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with principles; or the lack of it.

My question to anyone wanting to make an issue about a persons religious beliefs is this. What president and what specific issues associated with that presidents religious beliefs caused harm to this country? Be specific if you answer and do not apply conjecture.

Chilled - that last question is kind of the point I was leading toward. Maybe the lying is habitual from his missionary days. The Mormons call it Lying for the Lord - at least that's what I've heard from ex-Mormons. Current Mormons will mostly tell you that's completely false. Every once in a while, you'll get one to admit they've heard of that, but have never directly heard of any missionary being instructed to lie.

Well, I am kind of intermingling the act of lying (saying anything to get what you want, even if what you want is another number on your list of converts) and the act of missionary yardwork (doing anything to get what you want, even if what you want is another number on your list of converts). Let's assume the doing anything impulse also breeds a saying anything impulse. In that sense, yardwork could be kind of a gateway drug toward lying on the campaign trail.

Absolutely, nomoresameo.....

.....but Willard will not/does not talk about the things that do and will matter, like job-creation, immigration, health-care, the economy, foreign policies, etc. When he does sputter something, on real issues, the flip-flop begins.

@Paul........that's too funny......'Lying for the Lord'......good grief!

Nomoresameo: "What president and what specific issues associated with that presidents religious beliefs caused harm to this country?"

We've never had a Mormon president before. One of the potentially key differences between Mormons and pretty much any other faith I know of is the belief that Mormons can one day progress to God levels, and even become God of their own planet, so long as they abide by Mormon rules. That's a heck of an incentive - assuming you believe it - to do exactly what the church tells you to do. So the question is whether a Mormon president would do what he sees as best for the country or what he sees as best for his own perceived path toward being God of his own planet.

That's one heck of a stretch Paul M. Did Romney ever apply your theory when he was governor? Not to my knowledge. So, why would he apply it as president.

We can't or shouldn't elect a president based on their religious or non-religious beliefs.

There are far more reasons in my opinion to not vote for Romney than his religious beliefs.

Obama/Biden 2012

Paul M in Wbridge

In the four plus years on this board,...you have NOT lost your touch. This point/issue is at the forefront of how MOST 'non believers' (R) perceive Romney.

The net negative simply will not win the moderates and the Independents. Romney has already fallen prey to EXACTLY what ruined John McCain. The need to "please" the extreme wing has completely cost him his reputation to win the middle. Without the middle, Romney doesn't have a remote chance of winning this election. He may win some states; but he will NOT win the electoral college.

The realization of just HOW flat footed Mitt and UNnimble (word?) is sinking in with the Tighty Righties and all they can do is HOWL in protest. You see it by their efforts to collapse posts they don't agree with.

I used to think Romney could be a threat to a second term; but now I am pretty cozy with the reality that he is really a GIFT to Obama's second term. And for that, we thank him!

PS. CA Sandy - Presidential Candidate Mitt is no longer the Former Governor of MA. In fact, he pretty much acts like he was never there. When you turn your back on your 'maverick' side - and then PANDER to the crazy wing of your party - well, CREDIBILITY becomes a bit of an issue.

Clara - I really think the GOP convention this year is going to be one for the books. I don't believe either party has gone into the convention with a candidate who is less approved of by the masses as Romney. I think the Ron Paul crowd is going to create a real uproar and it will totally detract from Romney. Plus Romney will not have a clue about how he is to react to being so disliked.

I'll state it again, the far right conservatives in the south will sit home rather than go place a vote for Romney. They just won't be able to bring themselves to do it. Romney brings NOTHING to the table to excite the GOP base.

Obama/Biden 2012

I think you underestimate the genuine dislike and mistrust people have for President Obama. That by itself will get people out.

thetotas - you really don't know southern conservatives. They will not pull the lever for Romney - first because he's a mormon, 2nd because they just don't like/trust him. They'll stay home and not vote.

Oh, and the majority of Americans genuinely LIKE President Obama - 68%. They don't like the way the country is going but more than half blame the GOP for that.

Try again.

CA Sandy

That's one heck of a stretch Paul M. Did Romney ever apply your theory when he was governor?

You are naive. Anything Romney ever did that did not come with a 7 figure paycheck is for his resume. Olympics and Mass were used only to further his political objective, and Romney's final objectivewas always set on the White House.

Romney spent the last year of being the gov of Mass as a mean to make his political connections. It's known and proven. Most politicans don't want to be a one term anything (unless due to health, etc.) Romney chose not to run for his 2nd term - whether because he knew wouldn't be re-elected or because he got what he wanted is a different story.

Paul, noremasco, and chilled: Finally, finally you guys are getting it! Bubba in the south, the members of the Southern Baptist Convention & evangelials will never, and I do mean, never vote for a Morman. Trust me folks, I've lived in Bubbaland all my life, this is true! All our lives we have been filled with the same theory: The Morman church is a cult, members of the Morman church are sinful and not to be trusted. I've heard it in the Baptist church, the Church of God, the Methodist church, and the Church of Christ (more specifically while I was attending college at David Lipscomb). That is why you don't hear big fundraising numbers from the south, maybe a little in Florida - and most Floridians are not southerners, but the only fundrasier for Mitt in Tennessee was in Franklin, Tn (where there is actually a Morman congregation and church), no report on the amount raised, the CMA is very quiet this summer and most of those folks support republicans. All the republicans running for state offices clearly run against President Obama, but not one is running with Mitt - and that it itself is a bombshell.

thetotas,

[I think you underestimate the genuine dislike and mistrust people have for President Obama. That by itself will get people out.]

Actually this is no different than many people felt about President Bush in the 2004 election but he still won by a very slim margin as will President Obama.

It was reported that the TeaPeople were going to hold BIG rallies yesterday......Any news on how those BIG rallies turned out?

They all got drunk at local parks and passed out on the grass. But it was very patriotic, in a sad sort of way.

Dennis,

I wasn't happy about that one either.

They all got drunk at local parks and passed out on the grass.

Wow, I'm so disappointed. I was looking forward to the clips/pictures with all the creative signs.

Do you really want the US to be the next Greece?

Oh lord, another comparison to Greece. A more fitting phrase to anyone comparing Greece to the USA - "It's Greek to me".

Hey Einstein of the shop, you already pay for the uninsured with your high insurance rates. If people were paying for their own insurance, your rates will go down.

The only way American would become the next Greece is if we follow the republicans austerity policies that has caused double-dipped recessions in Europe. Due to the stimulus our country is growing slowly, but at least we are growing in the right direction.

With the Ryan budget the republicans have voted to bring another recession to America on purpose.

Think about it the millionaires and billionaires could not be asked for a small surcharge to get the people back to work after the rich at wall street broke our country.

But these same millionaires and billionaires have hundreds of millions of dollars to spend to convince you to vote for a republican for permanent and bigger tax cuts for themselves.

How dumb do you have to be to believe the republicans care about America?

You are absolutely correct Shop. $16 trillion debt, 1/3 owned by foreign countries.

US DebtClock.ORG

(Obamacare will add another trillion to the debt.)

We can't afford the entitlements that we have and we are being forced to take on even more.

We can't afford the defense budget and we are being forced to take that. Ike was right about the industrial military complex. We should have heeded his warning.

We need to take care of our children, the elderly and in-firmed. Not rich, I think they can do that all by themselves.

We can't afford the defense budget and we are being forced to take that.

Devie - funny you should bring that up. Greece GDP $330B. 2010 US defense budget $664B. Wow, comparing Greece to the USA - they sure are similar.

German Gem...Sieg Heil! Or do you prefer "Gott Mit Uns." Our current health care system gobbles up 17-18% of our GDP..Taiwan about 12%, and Switzerland which has a close version of Obamacare about 11%. By compelling those who do not have health insurance to purchase it will enlarge the pool and ultimately bring down costs for the rest of us. May be more expensive on the front end initially but will save us money long term.

Why do you conservatives continually frame the working poor as freeloaders?

Just askin!

Because they are so divorced from reality they truly think that they don't 'take' anything from society and shouldn't be forced to 'contribute' to it.

A more apt set would be a questionnaire;

Do you drive?

Did you attend a public 4-year college?

Public elementary schools?

Do you enjoy having firefighters willing to put out your housefire, without regard to your personal income?

Police Protection without regard to income?

Mediare? Social Security? Disability?

Have you ever drawn an unemployment check?

Do you EMPLOY anyone who does any of the above? Is your business dependant upon it?

Anyone who answers yes to any of those is a damned fool to vote republican, their platform is the elimination of all of the above.

GermanGem and Shop, the March 30, 2011 CBO federal debt analysis associated with PPACA projects a net estimated deficit reduction of more than $200 billion during the period 2012–2021(source: cbo.gov/publication/22077). Take a look at page 27 and 28.

The real decision-makers will be the Tea Party-ers in the House. And that should scare the crap out of most Americans.

...and it does. Especially since the Tea Bags take direction from the Koch Bros.

You can't get blood from a stone, but Obama will get MORE blood from the middle-class.

GermanGem - I see you're out with your one-liners today. They don't make any sense so I guess you're taking your lead from Romney?

Obama/Biden 2012

You can't get blood from a stone...

well here in America we like to use the phrase "you can get blood out of a turnip". Please get with it Gem. I mean really!

Good luck getting taxes and 'penalties' from the poor.

My comment requires making an inference. Get an education devie.

Good luck getting taxes and 'penalties' from the poor

Taxes and penalties for what? Poor qualify for medicaid...visa vi no taxation or penalty. And you think devie needs an education?

GermanGem, do you ever have anything really to say? A statement of your own without the required insult? I don't think any of your posts ever consist of more than one or two sentences. Why don't you post something about how you actually feel about something rather than just the normal inflammatory BS that you do? Just curious . . . .

Layton - GermanGem posts one liners she's copied from some GOP site. That's all she does.

She needs to get better material. Damn.

Thats right, the poor already receive Medicaid, switching them to private health insurance creates a middleman and will cost more to the taxpayers. The insurance companies love it.

To your name calling and false accusations- Go to US Debt Clock.ORG. One doesn't need to copy talking points or babble on and on and on to see the economic condition of this country.

[Good luck getting taxes and 'penalties' from the poor.]

It isn't the poor that are going to have to pay the penalty, it's the individuals who can afford health care but refuse to pay for it...you know...the freeloaders...

You are against freeloading, aren't you Gem?

Sure you are...

If Germany is such a Gem, why aren't you still there?

It seems to work here in MI. The owner of the Ambassador Bridge, the bridge between Detroit and Windsor, used his money (and a whole bunch of lies) to get public opinion turned against the second bridge. That new bridge what will it do? Speed up border crossings for trucks and passenger cars a like, provide jobs...

Well now we are being barraged by new adds attacking the Governor's plan to have it built with Canadian backing. What's happen to the GOP they used to be the guys pushing for infrastructure to grow business. The GOP has cetainly lost it's way. "They can't see the forest through the trees".

Not the sharpest tool in the shed are you? Yes, lets vote for a liar that promises to tax of only the rich, Obama loves you and will give you a star for being so naive to believe in him, Forward idots. Obama and his Hollywood crew are all really poor people. I feel for them. Why don't you go occupy their shorts!!

Poor welcome got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

I am smart enough to know propaganda when I hear it and obviously you don't.

Think about it all the anti Obama hate filled ads are only there to con you into voting against yourself. These millionaires and billionaires had no money to put Americans back to work but have hundreds of millions to spend to convince you to vote for the republican that has promised them bigger and forever tax cuts.

Are tax cuts for the rich more important than jobs or the American economy?

They are if you vote for a republican.

Cynthia: I have to believe you are a fellow Hoosier.

I already have a Joe Donnelly bumper sticker on my car.

Ron, I've had a Joe Donnelly bumper sticker on my van for quite awhile, now! We still have some bastions of Democratic sanity throughout Indiana. They tend to be in the northwest parts of the state, however.I've met Joe Donnelly and his wife numorous times and they are an amazing couple. I hope to see Joe go on to even bigger and better things! ;-)

Go Big Red!

Obama said Gitmo would be closed within one year of his presidency. Last month MSNBC reported that MILLIONS are being poured into Gitmo for improvements. No flip flop here lol.

Thanks to the GNOP and NIMBY.

Bob. It has been stated numerous times from both sides that any "tax" would effect about 1-3% of the people.

Since when is the middle class the 1-3% group?

You and others like you need to get your facts straight. Just because you would like to make people think this will unduly effect the middle class doesn't make your statement factual.

20+ new taxes with obamacare. EVERYBODY will get hit.

Wrong PAUL. The King can executive order anything he wants. The blame game is over.

nomoresameo - So why are the democrats afraid to admit it's a TAX. Why are the democrats trying to defend it as a PENALTY?

sfcret So why are the Democrats afraid to admit its a tax.

Its the same tax that the likely republican/tea bag candidate for President imposed on the State of Massachusetts. Why can't your likely candidate for President admit that fact?

sfcret.........I don't know why the democrats aren't calling it a tax. But the whole thing is very confusing for me.

First of all it is not a tax in the traditional sense of the word as we refer to 'tax'. That alone is the confusing issue to me. I am certainly not an attorney so I have difficulty understanding how the SCOTUS determined that it is a tax. But they have and so it stands as such.

Secondly, it sounds more like a penalty to me just as it must to many others. I say that because the only time someone would have to pay a fee, penalty, tax or whatever someone wants to call it in regards to the ACA, is when they refuse to pay for what they can and have been told is a lawful thing to do.

The proper name for Obamacares is it's "The Law"...that's it, that's all!

...and of course, TeaPeople have trouble with laws!

...and of course, TeaPeople have trouble with laws!

Ain't that the truth!

Bob, German, and Paul, There is an excellent FB page you should check out ... ACA for Dummies, kind of explains the LAW in simple, easy to read terms. I'm sure there is a webpage version as well. Stop with the doom and gloom, read the law, note the tax/penalty falls will be applied to a very small group. I'm the middle class and I happen to know it's not to cost me anything and I'm already benefitting from it.

Bob, German, and Paul, There is an excellent FB page you should check out ... ACA for Dummies

If they read it, it might not break that Republican bubble that keeps the facts out. Wouldn't that be grand.

@ BOB

The Supreme Court said it is the Law:

ROMNEYCARE for the other 49 states.

Job1

that made me laugh and think of Bill Maher! haha

Gee Bob in Va...That's why we have a "Supreme Court" dontcha know. They INTERPRET the laws and are the ultimate deciders. Of course being a strict constitutional constructionist you knew that didn't you? Why do you have a problem with that?

'A massive tax hike on the middle class?" Get a grip dude. Ask the people of Mass. how popular Romneycare is there. Last time I checked, it had a 68% approval rating.

Bob. It has been stated numerous times from both sides that any "tax" would effect about 1-3% of the people.

Since when is the middle class the 1-3% group?

You and others like you need to get your facts straight. Just because you would like to make people think this will unduly effect the middle class doesn't make your statement factual.

If the Republicans, under the control of the teapartiers, have their way the middle class will consist of 1-3% of the population just like the top level where the poor will consist of 93 to 95% of the population that is not wealthy or the few middle class left after their policies are implemented.

yankees9 Than how come the republican/tea bag party plan is to make cuts to Social Security. Instead of making it secure for the next generations. Please answer that one.

yankees9 - you DO realize President Obama has deported more illegals than any other President, right? You DO realize Regan had an amnesty program for illegals, right? Do you realize anything?

you DO realize President Obama has deported more illegals than any other President, right? You DO realize Regan had an amnesty program for illegals, right?

Uh oh! Those pesky facts! The GOP just keeps lying until our ears are sore. They just can't seem to rub them out.

SS- Now you've gone and done it. Besmirching St. Reagan's legacy with facts!

devie - My bad! :-}

yankees9 - please see http:// factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lies-about-hr-3200/.

Illegal immigrants are not eligible to participate. All current laws prohibit illegal immigrants from receiving federal medical benefits.

Thank you for the cold hard facts Truth. Obama is destroying this once great country.

GermanGem - I see you are ignorantly spouting the GOP talking points this morning. You don't have an original idea, do you? You just copy and paste the stupidity from the far right.

ATruth4U - you don't speak any truths. Try listening to something other than Faux News.

Obama/Biden 2012

Holy Hell, Sanity:

Apparently the sky is also FALLING!

Nothing is as amusing to me as the irrational conduct and language of the Obama Haters. Wanting to believe their hatred is real and justified just makes them look more and more irrational.

I just shake my head and laugh,...psst - watch out for that incoming CLOUD - it's the DEVIL!

How about this lie, NoLimit?

"Debt: Obama has increased taxpayer debt by $5.2 trillion. Every day, the nation runs a deficit of $4.2 billion, 350% worse than the Bush record"

The Washington Post determined that much of the debt incurred in the Obama administration has been to pay for Bush's failed policies and two wars started and bungled in the Bush administration. Read 'em and weep:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/adding-to-the-deficit-bush-vs-obama/2012/01/31/gIQAQ0kFgQ_graphic.html

Sailcat - thanks for the backup. Working and posting is always a challenge!

Any time, Seeking! Always glad to help!

NoLimitSoldier50 - the very earliest Social Security is set to "run out" of money is 2033. But, there are already ways around that and both parties will find it in their best interests to fix the problem. Even in 2033, the worst case scenario is that recipients would get 75% of their benefits. Again, that is worst case scenario.

As usual, the far right exaggerates and just plain lies.

Knobson - you can usually bet nothing is what Romney and the Republicans say it is.

Lets call it

ROMNEYCARE for the other 49 states.

[Lets call it: ROMNEYCARE for the other 49 states.]

Or, we can just call it ObamneyCare, like Jindal recently referred to Romney's health care plan for MA.

Talk about an "OOPS"!

Concern - posting it twice won't make you an less pathetic or our President any less great.

You truly are a loser.

Obama/Biden 2012

Yes insane, and my vote still counts as much as yours. Thank God that we are all created equal. Nice try. and keep looking for your Sanity. You do have issues.

Romney 2012.

Concern - you today totally proved what I keep saying - there is no sanity to be found in the GOP. But you also proved that you are a pitiable person. Your post shows how desperately ill you are. Trying to deflect onto me won't work. You showed your true colors today.

Obama/Biden 2012

5. His Mother and father left him at an early age. ------ This is a sign of rejection.

Good Lord!......

Equating the death of his parents to leaving him really stretches and boggles the mind of anybody who has a mind!

chilled - the entire post just shows a totally sick mind.

WelcomeUSA - ooooh probably shouldn't be calling anyone idiots. Only one poll has had Romney ahead - by 1 point. Even Fox has Obama leading by 4 or more.

Obama/Biden 2012