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SOURCE: NBC-WSJ poll
Enthusiasm is down generally this election as compared to 2008.
An average of several key groups from the NBC/WSJ poll, shows interest in this fall's election down an average of 5.3 points from this time four years ago. That's to be expected, considering the political climate, economy, and no exciting, drawn-out primaries on both sides (like in 2008).
But there are red flags for the Obama campaign, considering Latinos and young voters appear to be among the least enthused so far and down in big numbers from 2008.
And there are things for the Romney campaign to look at, particularly when it comes to white-working class and blue-collar voters. Romney wins both by double-digits in the latest NBC/WSJ poll -- white working class 58-31%, blue collar 48-37% -- but their enthusiasm is low as well.
And how about this question: What if an election were decided by just the parties' bases? Independents are also down – just 65% say they’re 8, 9, or 10, down 11 points from 2008.
To measure enthusiasm, the pollsters asked respondents to say how interested they are in this November’s contest, on a scale of one to 10. Adding up the 8s, 9s, and 10s gives a good measure of who the most likely voters will be this fall.
Leave a Comment:
NO?
Are you sure?
I can't believe that after 3 1/2 years of complete Congressional gridlock people are tired of the games in DC!
As we head into the fall when the conventions & debates are over, and America gets a good look at what Willard is offering... there won't be any enthusiasm gap!
We're still a little far out from the election for most people to get to enthusiastic yet..
Hey Feisty, Your first again! Its a Democratic/commie conspiracy, I say!!!!!
As we head into the fall when the conventions & debates are over, and America gets a good look at what Willard is offering... there won't be any enthusiasm gap!
You've got that right my dear friend! Maybe, just maybe, by the time the fall debates start, NitWitMitt may have something to say about where he stands on issues. And I'm not talking about broad brush strokes that try to touch on what always sounds good like "less taxes; more jobs". We have all been waiting to hear how he proposes to accomplish things other than a lot of meaningless lip service. The fact that he has been able to flip flop over everything he has said and done in the past will come to a screeching halt once the debates show him for what he is: an empty expensive suit with little to offer the average American but a lot of empty promises.
Since 5 of the unelected boys on SCOTUS seem to be running the country, I am not surprised.
Take a good look at the dates. Both were at the same time of the year -- four years apart. The enthusiasm level is being surveyed at the same time period. This is not about Congress, this is about Obama.
Also, I have seen many many liberals on here complaining that their side didn't get out to vote in 2010 and WALA the Tea Party segment takes control. Seems a bit strange to me that the 2010 results and the subsequent gridlock would be enough for the liberal side to show 2008 enthusiasm so they can take back Congress. Hmmmm must be a lack of enthusiasm for fearful leader.
Hi Brian!
The problem for Willard is, with his multiple choice positions on everything, he has no where to hide!
Not to mention, how 'testy" Willard becomes when asked something outside of his comfort zone!
If governor Romney was all that bad in the eyes of others, then he wouldn't even be close in some polls and leading in others. Conservative enthusiasm should be down according to you who said the far right/TP wouldn't accept and back him. Your crystal ball is somewhat foggy. You need to remove your rose-colored glasses and take a good look around you. You shouldn't pin your hopes on the debates since your track record isn;t that good thus far.
Maybe, maybe not.
The comparative dates are not all you need to know. You're forgetting that 2008 included a VERY active primary season. Enthusiasm was already very high because there had been contested primaries with record turnouts in almost every state, especially democratic primaries. In fact, Hillary Clinton did not suspend her campaign until June 7, 2008.
In reality, you're comparing apples and oranges.
After considering the facts, I'm frankly surprised that enthusiasm is as high as it is right now.
2012 Presidential Debate Schedule
The dates and venues have been announced for the 2012 Presidential debates between President Obama and the eventual GOP nominee.
The date for the Vice Presidential debate has also been announced. Ticketing for the 2012 general election debates is controlled by the Commission on Presidential Debates and tickets will be extremely limited. The majority of tickets are distributed to university students and faculty through a lottery system with the remaining tickets going to friends and families of the campaigns and the media.
October 3, 2012 Air Time TBD
Location: University of Denver in Denver, Colorado Sponsor: Commission on Presidential Debates Participants: President Obama and the GOP Presidential nominee.
October 11, 2012 Vice Presidential Air Time TBD
Location: Centre College in Danville, Kentucky Sponsor: Commission on Presidential Debates Participants: Vice President Biden and the GOP Vice Presidential nominee.
October 16, 2012 Air Time TBD Location: Hofstra University in Hempstead, New York Sponsor: Commission on Presidential Debates Participants: President Obama and the GOP Presidential nominee.
October 22, 2012 Air Time TBD Location: Lynn University in Boca Raton, Florida Sponsor: Commission on Presidential Debates Participants: President Obama and the GOP Presidential.
Poor Willard is not yet recognized as the GOP Presidential nominee!
And the link listing this schedule is what???? It is never good to go beyond presumptive. The fat lady hasn't sung yet.
It's pretty simple. Obamamania wore off a while ago. All but his most salivating, horned-up, Eva Braun-like followers realized that he is a mortal, flawed, average man. many others have decided that he's full of s**t and pretty much always has been.
Poor Willard is not yet recognized as the GOP Presidential nominee!
Republicans are still hoping a white knight will emerge at the Republican convention and relieve them of the necessity of campaigning for Romney. Least likeable candidate for President ever.
Heck, Willard isn't even mentioned as 'presumptive'.....What fat lady?..Bachmann is thin!
Oh, the schedule is out there, just google it!
No way can anyone look at 2008 and 2012 and make a realistic comparison. 2008 gave us an epic campaign fight between two terrific candidates, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. I would think to have a better comparison, one would have to look at several elections prior to 2008 to really get a feel for it. That said, it is good information to study and no doubt both campaigns are well aware of these numbers.
Amen Feisty. They forgot a couple of voting blocks:
Sane people 800%
Republicunz -650%
Romney is not exciting, but is still an infintly more intelligent and better choice than the historically failed alternative.
Excitment for Romney will not win the election ... fear of what another 4 years of ineptitude and dictator-like disregard for the will of the American people, contempt for the rule of law, disdain of the Constitution and equal branches of government will decide the election.
Another factor ... despite the fact that his only noteworthy accomplishment was writing 2 books about himself, people were evidently excited about styrofoam Greek columns and voting for the first black President - for that reason alone.
Considering how that worked out, considering that there has never been a president that has acknowledged his own ineptitude to this extinct (through blaming everyone / everything else) .... well, maybe people will make a better, less exciting and more prudent decision this time.
It did Damage.
Until people saw the alternative.
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
It's all in the point of view, bobby. But you're obviously leaving George W. Bush, and the relentless bashing and blaming of Bill Clinton -- especially for September 11 -- out of your consideration.
I think the REAL "better, less exciting and more prudent decision" would have been Al Gore. And if it had been, none of us would be having this conversation.
Or, wait ... it WAS, wasn't it?
By the way, if President Obama is so very -- and so obviously very -- bad, then isn't it more interesting to ponder how Romney is not miles ahead of him right now?
Maybe it's not as obvious to everyone as it is to you.
People will get fired up. Just remember if the election were held today, Obama would smoke Willard.
It's a no brainer, because America is not stupid enough enough to elect a lying, flip flopping, empty sit, vulture capitalist, outsourcer-in-chief.
Hey Anna,
Have you got a reference / quote for Bush ever blaming Clinton ... constantly blaming Clinton for what he inherited?
Al Gore and his globull warming insanity .... we would have been Europe.
Kerry?
You know what .... when all economic things are totaled and when you consider the economic collapse would have happened anyway with Kerry as president ... when you offset the above average revenues under Bush with the disaster - the worst recovery in history under Obama .... America might be Net ahead of where we are if Kerry had won.
At least Kerry would not made law by executive fiat, ignored the Constitution, destroyed the life blood of the economy, started the war on business ...
About Obama being so bad ....
Do you think that 6 out of 10 Americans know who Joey Biden is?
Most Americans hate politics ... tune in when they have to ... kinda like taxes.
Combined with the fact that Americans tend to want to like their presidents ... you have what you have.
Scary, huh?
I can believe the numbers.
Obama tried to work with Republicans far too much, and 'compromised' on a lot of issues the liberal base didn't want compromise on.
Health Insurance, anyone?
Guantanamo.
Iraq/Afghanistan.
Ending the War on Drugs.
Extending the Bush Tax Cuts.
He's made way too many compromises with these jokers, and all they've tried to do is sabotage him the entire time.
Stop compromising and do what's right, Mr. President.
Thank you Tek for pointing out the fact that Obama has been a poor leader and decision maker as well as not being smart enough to know the sabotage was afoot. Do what is right Mr. President -- resign or bow out in favor of Hillary to save your party.
http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/200601012_bush_blames_clinton_again/
Here is one link showing Bush blames Clinton. Simply google to get a full list of Bush blaming Clinton for everything, including the 'baby' recession that occurred on his watch, when Congress gave him $1.2T to fix; a massive sum compared to the pittance given to Obama to fix a colossal collapse.
Anna Molly - "combined with the fact that Americans tend to want to like their Presidents" - interesting since right now about 68% LIKE Obama. 'nuff said.
Obama/Biden 2012
Yet the same amount say we are on the wrong track .... 52% disapprove of Obama's performance .... 12% believe the economy is good ...
Do you guys really suggest that the office of president should the equivalent to American Idol ... a popularity contest?
Well .... I guess that at least explains why we have the worst economy / recovery since WW II, record deficits, record long term unemployment, record number of Americans on food stamps ....
This "enthusiasm gap" seems to be mainly a problem of the 2 Wall Street parties. I know lots of folks who can't wait to pull the lever for presumed Green Party nominee Dr. Jill Stein. Same goes for my
pothead,dopefiend, Libertarian friends who are itchin' to vote for Gary Johnson. SEP candidate Jerry White is making big waves among Socialists by backing the students in Quebec. But I can't really blame you guys. If Obama or Romney were the leader of my team, I be bummed as well.bobby --
By gum, bobby, you're right.
I never once heard George W. Bush blame Bill Clinton for the surpluses that Bush inherited.
Enough said, indeed.
Not at all. The last guy the public wanted to have a beer with didn't turn out so well.
Unless Clooney is available, of course.
Anna Molly - I'm sure bobby watches American Idol every time it's on. His idea of entertainment...
Good point ... especially since you know that those were "Budget" surpluses, surpluses on paper - that the debt went up every single year under Cinton, hence no real surplus.
Skillful deflection, as well as great lib deception and talking point, though!
But you specifically mentioned 9/11 - nothing on that, huh?
What about the dot.com recession that Bush inherited ... Bush ever cry about that year after year after year?
P.S. (Don't try even try to explain budget surplus / intergovernmental holdings / public debt / national debt to someone who's sobriquet sounds kinda like eeking anity .... that is unless you don't have anything else better to do before Wimbledon and the Summer Olympics are over.)
You win, bobby. I've got nothing better to do before Wimbledon.
Liberals speak all over their mouth, but the fact of the matter is that Obama is loosing ground among his supporters , even among woman , people are getting tired of more than 5 years of campaign , Rpmney supporters, are being fired up , with more positive numbers. But anyway the real test will be in November.
Conservatives are constantly talking about how President Obama has supposedly lost his approval with the Democratic base, yet there is ZERO evidence to back that up. Do some on the professional Left kibitz? Well sure they do...that's what they do. The Conservative echo chamber carped constantly about how the how we weren't involved in enough wars, too. Didn't keep them from voting for him, or John McCain for that matter.
Tell yah what bob - SHRUB was too FUC KING STUPID to think of blaming Clinton or anyone else. He started with a "deer in the headlights" look and pretty much finished that way, too.
Of course, since he kept a couple of military actions off the books, he didn't really CARE, then, DID HE???
Much ado about nothing! Liken these polls to when folks start thinking about income tax preparation...there's no urgency till April 15th ... or much later if you're like Romney and need to file an extension.
Ursula, The poll shows the enthusiasm at a similar time before the election so urgency or not, it is telling. What I would be curious to see is the chart showing November 2008 to compare with July 2008.
Ursula, The poll shows the enthusiasm at a similar time before the election so urgency or not, it is telling. What I would be curious to see is the chart showing November 2008 to compare with July 2008.
Rocco - Good point, but it would probably be skewed do to the fact that O and Hillary were still battling it out in the primary.
Just because the primary was still ongoing with a battle, the left was still enthusiastic for either candidate. Remember, you (the left) thought both were great candidates so enthusiasm was high!!!! They were just plain fired up but the last nearly four years has taken the wind out of most of their sails because they didn't realize they had put their chairs on the deck of the Titanic.
Ben, I'd have to disagree with you on Democrats' enthusiasm. A lot of Hillary supporters were pissed and threatening to stay home or vote for McCain!
This country would have been a better place if they had. How sad.
Wow, so there IS actually one person who thinks things would have been better under McCain/Palin!
And just when will we see Mitt's tax returns? Will we see them before he names a running mate? Before he does a real interview with a real interviewer? Before he straps Seamus to the top of the car again?
C'mon Mitt, man-up and open 'em up.
TNSEVOL - LOL - how totally sad that anyone says they would have been better off with McCain who didn't even know the economy had problems. We have the right man for President and if our Congress wasn't filled with obstructionists we would be doing better!
Obama/Biden 2012
I take your point all on it being early and should be expected that enthusiasm is down this time vs. 2008. But it is noteworthy which groups lag behind others - and by big margins, mind you, for whatever reason. Just an indication of heading into July 4th weekend, where both campaigns have work to do.
A voice of reason from the dungeons of liberals on here. If your posters would take their blinders off and be truthful instead of trance like, discussions on here might mean something. Thank you for your post, Domenico.
Do you have the chart from November 2008 to compare with July 2008 to see if there was much increase/decrease in enthusiam during that timer frame?
I'd also like to see what the numbers were for the period before the 2010 off years as well.
Ursula, The poll shows the enthusiasm at a similar time before the election so urgency or not, it is telling. What I would be curious to see is the chart showing November 2008 to compare with July 2008.
Rocco - Good point, but it would probably be skewed do to the fact that O and Hillary were still battling it out in the primary.
I wonder why the fact that Maine and other states are sending all Ron Paul supporters, instead of Romney delgates, to the Republican convention, is a non-issue in the eyes of the msm.
I wonder why the msm isn't talking about the energy behind Ron Paul not translating into enthusiasm for Romney. Wonder if these are some of the under-30's who are not that excited about voting in the general.
GT , Not Really, If Hillary dropped out 6/7/08 like AM says, the July 08 enthusiasm was measured with Obama as the candidate.
Thanks, Domenico.
I'll add to remember that in 2008, we had both parties running competitive primaries because neither had an incumbent president or vice president in the race. People were also much more focused in 2008, because of the Obama and Clinton fight for the nomination; they paid attention because it was exciting on so many levels. The democrats would either nominate the first female candidate or the first black candidate. That plays into the mix as well.
Amy, Iowa is one of those states with more Ron Paul delegates than establishment republicans. Should be interesting to watch. Regardless of how much Ron Paul says he wants his people to back Romney, I have a feeling that Romney will lose a number of write-in votes to Paul.
@Rocco -- good point.
@Amy -- I believe most consider that a gnat on the elephant's butt. Sort of like the 42% of the democrat vote who went to Obama's competitor -- the convicted felon -- in WV.
Amy, You have to wonder if Ron Paul is an issue? Really? He is about as much as a non issue out there at this point.
Ben -
Or the fact that Obama received more notes than Romney in the WV primary and the convicted felon had almost as many votes as Romney!
I'm sure Ron Paul supporters will be thrilled to hear they are only a gnat in the Republican elephant's back side.
That's true, the primary ended in June 2008, but it had sparked enthusiam that continued despite Hillary dropping out. People remained focused for a lot of reasons many relating to the disaster that was George W. Bush. As for the Hillary supporters being huffy, there was some of that but I never did and still do not think there was as much to that story as the press claimed. Democrats and their spokespeople are prone to hand wringing.
Hey Domenico, while we have your ear...
Do you think the media will give as much publicity to the Fortune article FR linked to this morning, debunking the Fast and Furious "scandal," as they did to the Republican witchhunt being conducted by Issa and his committee?
Will the media wait until after the election to inform the public that guns were not actually allowed to go to Mexico deliberately? I am really curious, and not being snarky.
TNSEVOL -- You are one thick skulled individual. I believe you even looked it up. Dems out number Republicans by 100s of thousands. There were hotly contested primaries in local, county and state democrat races. There were more of them at the polls. Until Gore, WV was a blue state (except for Reagan). Since then although very few democrats switched parties, they started to vote Republican and protecting the state's interests.
So you are ignoring the fact that in a state that Romney is predicted to win more people voted for Obama than Romney in the Primary? I suppose they voted for Obama in the primary but will vote for Romney in the general? That makes no sense. I think it points to an enthusiasm gap for Romney.
And my skull IS thick - it has to be to contain my massive brain!!!
Yes they will. I am a native WVirginian. Born and raised. The 42% will definitely mostly vote for Romney that placed the protest vote against Obama. It may not make sense to you -- and really doesn't have to -- but that is what will happen.
I would have expected Obama to have a 20-point lead by now.
Thanks for letting us know the truth.
I will redouble my efforts!! :o)
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
@Domenico - any chance that these figures are available for 2004? It would be interesting to find out if having an incumbent president tones down the level of early enthusiasm. When both parties are running a new candidate, I can see where that might increase early enthusiasm.
Ben and Red Devil, good points on getting more information from November 2008 as well as 2004 to measure an incumbency.
I can tell you having looked at the numbers from November 2008 already (but haven't done a full work up) that enthusiasm jumped significantly. In fact, Latinos went from about 80% 8s, 9s, 10s to 100%. But that's why closer to the election, we drop looking at 8s and measure just 9s and 10s. By October, 9s and 10s are what's most important, because obviously not every registered Hispanic voted in 2008.
Even measure 9s and 10s, Latinos were up to 92% by November. I'd suspect we'd find every other group also jumped significantly by right before the election. After all this health care stuff dies down, I'll go back into the polls' crosstabs from the past few years and put together a list of the same groups above broken out for November 2008, listing 8s, 9s, 10s as well as just 9s, 10s.
As far as 2004, I wasn't at NBC then, so I don't have the personal poll archive that I've been keeping since 2007. But I can try to get with our pollsters and see.
As an aside to Amy... I don't know if the media will go with the Fortune story in the way that they've covered the partisan back and forth, but they should and we say so here internally. Rigorous reporting and trying to get facts by working sources over several months is much tougher to do than covering a food fight.
Hey Domenico - thanks for responding and giving us the additional information. No worries on 2004 data - if it was on hand, it would have been nice to compare. I'm not so sure it would really tell us much.
Thank you for your response Domenico!
That's a great point Domenico, which is probably why some in the media don't work as hard as you folks do to get the whole story. If it bears out that the Fast & Furious story might have been based on an agent who went against orders and then blamed it on his boss sets the whole thing on its ear. If the whole concept was compromised primarily by weak laws that prevent guns from just being handed off from people who give only the appearance of being law-abiding to organized criminals it brings into question how guns are handled in the legal arena...and the NRA seems to prefer that to be allowable. That disgruntled former ATF agents may be working in concert with militia members to destroy the agency is downright frightening.
All of this and more bears further investigation and attention. The question is whether much of the media has the wherewithal to take it on.
Is anyone really surprised?
In 2008, it seems that many people thought that they were electing a transformational figure that would solve all our problems; was able to leap tall buildings in a single bound.
It turns out that President Obama is like all of our past Presidents - he is a politician, not a King. And the Congressional gridlock that existed before 2008 has gotten worse and it will be even worse for the NEXT President.
So, no magic transformations, just hard work ahead - fantasy is just that... fantasy. We did not win the Lotto, so its time to get on with our day.
The next election will be two politicans running for the same office ( POTUS), neither man has a giant "S" on their chest.
Just make sure to vote and use your brain when you vote. That's all that is asked
I agree. We know what we have in Obama and some of the high hopes we had for bringing the country together turned out to be just that, hopes.
I predict this election will be much like 2004, when the "Anyone But Bush" crowd could not muster enough votes to elect Kerry.
If you think about it, as a candidate Romney is a lot like Kerry in many ways. I think the result will be the same, the incumbent will win in a close election.
It just staggers the imagination that President Obama's re-election isn't considered a sure thing, considering, under this admistration, Qaddafy was removed from power, with our help, after 30 years of threatening our security.
It's staggering that Osama bin Laden is finally dead, and the American auto industry is alive again, and yet the Republicans still have a chance of taking back the White House? Without any better ideas than what was enacted under George Bush? Truly, I don't get it.
Amy, Just shows how much kool-aid you have been drinking.
Amy-
I agree. I know we all see things through our own prism of experiences and beliefs, but I have yet to have anyone explain to me why they hate Obama so much.
On the other hand, my wife is about as non-political as they come and she cannot stand Romney. When his commercials come on she asks me "why would anyone vote for him?" I honestly have no good answer to give her.
A President can only be transformational if he/she gets the support from Congress to do great things. We know for a fact that President Obama was met with obstruction from the GOP on Day One. Still, if one looks at the many accomplishments those first two years, President Obama passed and signed more historical legislation than any President since LBJ. And he did it in those first two years.
In order for any president to unify the country, both parties must work together. We also know that from Day One, the GOP refused to participate in that effort.
Jody -
I agree, and I can reason my way through why things haven't worked out the way we wanted - but a part of me is not as enthusiastic as 2008.
I took the day off from work to watch the inauguration, and was excited about our country's future. I agree it was the Republican's tactics that led to this, but there is still an "innocence lost" caused by the tidal wave of negativity from the right.
Your observation is a little off. The anybody but Bush election was 2008 that's why the Republican lost the election along with the white guilt vote. You are right about one thing this election is the anybody but Obama vote and Dems should be worry. I don't believe any poll that say BO still has a personal favor ability rating with the public. I believe voters polled say they like him so they won't be called a racist. The only way BO will wins is with electoral college; he will lost with the popular vote.
TNSEVOL -- Kerry didn't have an atrocious record to run on. No comparison.
Bush had an atrocious record to run on, was highly despised by the opposition, and still beat Kerry - the "Anyone But Bush" winner of the Democratic primaries.
I was comparing Bush to Obama, and Kerry to Romney.
BIG YAWN! Wake me in October.
I wish it were that simple, really. The problem is that it's been nearly 4 years of non stop hate campaigning by the right. Obama hadn't even adjusted his chair in the Oval Office and they were already complaining that he wasn't doing anything. i just hope people listen and weigh all of the facts before they make up their mind. I can guarantee you one thing for sure. If the Republicans and Romney win or steal this election, they will disappear behind the castle walls and no one gets in. That umbrella will close mighty fast. It will not be a people friendly administration.
Tony, very well stated and I so agree!
Don't forget also; the FAR lefties see him as being no better than Bush mainly because Obama has been doing a good job of killing terrorists and basically treating terrorists with an all-round rudeness that bothers the lefties (Gitmo, drones etc...). That far-lefties hate this and will not forgive him, even if he is Black, which causes many liberals to give him the benefit of the doubt and extra room on many issues.
Also, once Latinos (who the left claims are so angered when illegal aliens get deported) start to see the videos of Obama bragging about DEPORTING MORE ILLEGALS THAN ANY OTHER PREZ, they may start to change their minds. They may not vote Repub, but they may stay home.
Do you really think the religous Conservatives in the South who refused to vote for Romney in the primaries will enthusiastically come out to vote for him?
It has been proven in the past it is not enough to be against someone, your candidate of choice has to have some ability to inspire you.
TNSEVOL - Not a chance the southern conservatives will pull the lever for a mormon. They'll stay home first.
There is NOTHING to inspire Republicans for Romney so they just won't vote.
Damage, responding to your comment actually hurts my fingers but this just stuck out
What makes you think that Hispanics and Latinos haven't seen the charts and numbers - they've been out there for months! Do you think they are waiting for Mitt to look it up for them? Or sitting around waiting for a VIDEO to find this out for themselves? Oh WAIT! My BAD - that's how you get YOUR information. I usually skip commercials when watching a program, seems you skip TO them.
I am surprised by the number of Dem's and Liberals that are losing interest. I shouldn't be, looking at the Presidents approval rating from when he took office to the current score...
sirie-
It may be splitting hairs (or wishful thinking) but I don't think that they are "losing interest" as much as the enthusiasm level was unnaturally high in 2008.
Liberals were excited about the chance to elect a historic candidate, and VERY excited to be rid of Bush.
I would be interested in a comparison to prior presidential election years - especially 2000 and 2004.
TNSEVOL - I would too. In reality though, polls are just polls.
TN
It was a lot more exciting and people could actually see where a candidate stood on an issue 4 years ago.
Key words there, Phine ... where a candidate stood on an issue .... so sad that we cannot say the same this go round
I hope the Democrats emphasize how the path forward lies in getting control of the House, Senate and White House. And no, the Dems did not have 'control' with blue dogs like Nelson of Nebraska and Landreau of Louisiana and the so-called independent Lieberman.
I'm also hopeful that the Supreme Court striking down the mandate in the Health Care law will open up the discussion again for single-payer, the only program that works for everyone.
Hope and denial springs eternal in the hearts of the leftists! Just because they keep spouting the usual party line, doesn't detract from the fact that the polls, enthusiasm gap, etc. bode not to well for obungler.
He has been the most divisive prez in history, and this, and other threads are more and more indicative that all is not well in democratic heaven.
The major enthusiasm here is the majority desire to get rid of this useless tit.
It's going to be fun watching redtop and the other libtards explain away the results. As usual, they'll declare victory, and morph back into their denial mode!
Al:
We can then become the new Liberal Underground Resistance Organization and fight fascists like you from within our own country. We will break you, we will stop you. Hear the words of Henry Asgard Wallace, VP to FDR:
TACTICS FOR EFFECTIVE CONSERVATIVE BLOGGING
Engage
Demand an elaborate, time-consuming comparison / analysis between your position and theirs.
Entangle
Insist that the Liberal put their posts “in their own words”. That will consume the most time and effort for the Liberal poster. They will be unable to spread numerous points on numerous blogs if you have them occupied. Allowing a Liberal to post a web link is too quick and efficient for them. Tie them up. We are going for delay of game here.
Demoralize
Dismiss their narrative as rubbish immediately. Do not even read it. Once the Liberal goes through the trouble to research, gather, collate, compose and write their narrative your job is to discredit it. Make it obvious you tossed their labor-intensive narrative aside like garbage. This will have the effect of demoralizing the Liberal poster. It will make them unwilling to expend the effort again, and for us, that is a net win.
Attack
Attack the source. Any Liberal website or information source must be marginalized, trivialized and discounted. Let the blogosphere know that “Truthout.org”, “thinkprogress.org”, “the nation” and “moveon.org” are Liberal rubbish propaganda. Discredit Liberal sources of information whenever possible.
Confuse
Challenge the Liberal position with questions, always questions. The questions need not be relevant. The goal is to knock the Liberal poster off their game, and seize control of the narrative. Once you have control you can direct the narrative to where you want it to go, which is always away from a successful Liberal presentation. Conversely, do not respond to their leading questions. Don’t rise to their bait.
Contain
Your job is to prevent the presentation and spread of Liberal viewpoints. Do anything you must do to prevent a Liberal poster from presenting a well-reasoned argument, or starting a civil discussion. Don’t allow a Liberal to present their dogma unchallenged,….EVER.
Intimidate
Taunt the Liberals. If you find yourself in a debate with a Liberal where you are losing a fact-based argument then call them a name to derail their diatribe. Remember your goal is to prevent a meaningful exchange of views and ideas which may portray Liberalism in a positive light. Your goal as a conservative blogger is to stop the spread and advance of the Liberal agenda. Play upon any identifiable idiosyncrasies, character flaws, physical traits, names, to their disadvantage. Stay on the offensive with Liberal wimps. Don’t let up.
Insult their Movement
Assign as many character and moral flaws to Liberals as you can. You must portray Liberals as weak, vacillating, indecisive, amoral, baby killers, unpatriotic, effete snobs, elitists, Leftists, Commies, sense of entitlement, promiscuous, union lovers, tax raisers, Welfare Queens, Socialists, lazy, sex-obsessed, druggies, Jesus haters, moochers, troop haters,….etc. Always use these negative epithets when referring to, or describing Liberals / democrats.
Deceive
Identify yourself as a “moderate”, “centrist” or “independent”. It will also cause Liberals to lower their guard a bit, which gives you an effective opening. This may also have the effect of aligning conservative viewpoints with the real moderates we are attempting to reach. It may serve to influence some moderates over to the Republican side.
Patriotism
Always claim the high ground of pro-military, low taxes, strong defense, morality and religion. We own those virtues. Learn how to exploit them when debating. Call the Liberals weak on terrorism, it drives them crazy.
Smudge the Lines
Say that there is no difference between the two parties. Look for ways to show how similar the two parties are. Make them doubt their allegiance to the democrat party.
Infiltrate
Inquire as to the personal lives of Liberal posters. Get to know them. Where they live, work, how many kids. Call them by their first names. This will make them tone down their narrative. After all, you are not going to insult a trusted friend are you? If they are a powerful blogger with a sharp tongue you need to find a way to weaken their rhetoric, and nothing will do that as well as familiarity.
Demean
Always refer to the other side as “Liberals”, “Lefty Liberals”, “Libbies”. Never assign them the status of a bona-fide political party. Hang Liberalism around their neck like a burning tire. Make Liberalism appear as a function of moral turpitude or a character flaw. They are NEVER, NEVER to be referred to as “the Democratic Party”. At best it is “the democrat party”.
Opportunity
Be alert for ways to insert our catch phrases into your narrative. You will receive your daily list of talking points and topics that we want you to cover. Consistent, persistent repetition and inculcation will drive our talking points home and so will neuro-linguistic programming. Stick with it and our talking points will become truth. If they debunk your talking point, ignore it, and move on as if you didn’t hear it.
Thanks for the reminder GOP!
Here is are the "cliff-notes"
This place is crawling with clones these days...
OMG!
Grimey, is this you?:
Welcome Feisty! XO So nice to see you deconstruct these germs. Brace for the ACA decision tomorrow. I am under no delusion as to what they will decide.
That's why they took the trouble to stack the courts with right wing ding-a-lings.
Once you give people a taste of sugar,.....they are going to keep wanting it. Go ahead Alito. Take away health insurance for 30 million people! Please.
For a while there I thought Obama was going to lose the election. My nieces are going to vote Democratic for the first time in their lives. :o)
GOPisextinct - It's amazing that Thomas is not recusing himself but I guess we didn't really expect him to show any integrity - he never has. With he, Alito and Scalia it's amazing our country hasn't gone completely backward! But, they're still trying!
Oh well - hopefully President Obama will get to appoint 1 or 2 new justices over the next 4 years.
Obama/Biden 2012
I DEFY them to find out who I REALLY am. Matter of fact, I might even defy the NSA to figure out WHO I REALLY AM - proxy servers work so well...
See the above.
I rest my case!
"Rest my case," Al, you have NO case to rest. I saw no effort at debate, just a rehash of the failed FOX talking points.
I can't be sure gang, but I think this dude believes he made (or drank) a "case" of some kind.
The enthusiasm is going to be down because people pretty much knows what we got in both candidates. That's why the debates are going to be fun to watch and tick this enthusiasm up or notch or two!!
Yes, can't wait for the debates when Obama has to finally answer for his pathetic record. He will finally be foreced to come out of hiding and actually address the economy. I would love to hear what he has to say!
answer to WHOM? Dimwit Willard? He'll tear Willard a new a$$hole.
I can see why voter confidence is down, we cannot seem to get it together in Washington. A couple of days ago I sent out a message to both the Republican Facebook and the Democrat Facebook (Democrat FB didn't allow public comments) so I put it on Being Liberal's Facebook... below is what I posted to both parties... I expected opposition and I got it... Being Liberal is the only party member that responded and it was not a positive response, I didn't even get a response from the Republicans... this is a shame, but I am going to continue to post this message, in the hope that maybe someone will listen...
Has anyone given a thought to approaching the "other side" to see if everyone can put aside their political differences and brainstorm on how to go about fixing these issues that are keeping us from achieving economic stability? I think all parties should get together and throw out ideas until some of these ideas can be agreed upon by all parties and merged into a plan that will benefit all American citizens. It seems insane, one side demands changes be made and when they are; the "other side" demands the same to any changes made from this side. In order for us to gain economic stability we all need to work together, I am encouraging us all to put down our political rifles and extend a hand in kinship to our fellow Americans. We cannot get out of this unstable economic environment, we now reside in, while there is animosity between the parties that make up our government. We can work together no matter our political views. Its time to put on thinking caps, set aside political differences for the time being and work together to make our country financially secure once more... Now.. I am going right over to the "other side" and copy the same post... maybe someone might even listen! :)
If Mitt Romney names Marco Rubio as his running mate, It will be a great endorsement of the Latino community.
Marco is a walking success story all by himself. He and Mitt Romney will compliment each other nicely.
Obama is beginning to look like stale bread to a lot of Americans.
Hey everybody...How about four more years of this stale bread?? This moldy cheese?? No??? Didn't think so.
Romney -Rubio..GAME SET MATCH!
Romney-Rubio, game set and match with the democrats winning. Rubio a success story ha! I remember when Rubio wanted to triple the sales Tax in Florida. Hitler and Himmler is more like how they would lead.
the RMoney-Rube-io ticket:
Mr FLIP-FLOP and Mr NINCOMPOOP (emphasis on the POOP) Enough SAID...
So if they rule it illegal to force us to buy health insurance, does that mean we can no longer be forced to buy car insurance? How will Robmee's morals feel about that?
Military Members, Veterans, Military retirees; note that Romney PROMOTED THE DRAFT during the Viet Nam War, then skipped out to France for extraordinary lenth of time when church missionary tours were limited. When Romney came home, he sided with his dad that the whole Viet Nam War was a scam and that he was against the war.
Promoting the draft, while Americans were dieing, he skipped out, then says he wishes he could have participated. His whole life has been a lie.
VietNam was a lie based on a lie - Gulf of Tonkin was a LIE - JOHNSON LIED and PEOPLE DIED.
Then at the end America declared VICTORY - and RAN LIKE HELL!
"Its a moral failure when poor people and even illegal aliens are forced to buy insurance when our charitable society has always taken care of them"
I don't know where your Disneyland delusion comes from, but you couldn't POSSIBLY be more clueless! This a complete crock of manure! What planet do you live on? It couldn't possibly be EARTH!
I didn't get a good response from my suggestion of cooperation between the parties of our government, no surprize there... so I sent out the suggestion below to both Positively Republican and Being Liberal's Facebook... Being Liberal liked my idea... I also emailed both suggestions to my state's senators Kay Hagin and Richard Burr. Kay Hagin responded to my cooperation suggestion but I have yet to hear back from Richard Burr. In my second email to him I asked him if he cared about his Republican constituents, because I had heard from Kay Hagin but had received no response from him and that I felt like I was being unheard by my own party. I respectfully asked him to review my two suggestions and respond. I will keep everyone posted on how this plays out. Below is my second suggestion to help our failing economy...
Ok since no one likes my idea of cooperation, how about if we try this... *just throwing out ideas to see if these things are possible* ;) I remember there being something on my taxes that asks me if I want to donate a dollar to a fund...I cannot recall the fund name... I always check Yes because I figure it is only a dollar and my civic duty to donate some of my tax money back into the system... is there a possibility to have this option placed on W-4 forms for those of us American citizens who would like to donate a dollar per paycheck before taxes or after taxes if before taxes is not in the public's best interest, to help reduce some of the federal deficit... this would be purely by choice, and have an option to donate more if wanted... I would be willing to do this in order to help our economy, I voted to put senators and congressmen in office so I feel that I have some responsibility for the state of our economic affairs because of who I voted for. Of course, I would want this fund to be uncappable, see the NC State Education Lottery if you want to know why. The funds should ONLY be used to help decrease the federal deficit and pay for the fund's upkeep. Percentages should be appropriated according to each deficit type and amount. Percentages also need to be closely monitored by checks and balances, because of the high likelihood of misappropriation. All Americans should be privy to the total amount gained, percentage amount, and type of deficit the funds are applied to. Is what I am referring to possible? Would anyone else be interested in donating a dollar per paycheck on their W-4 form to help reduce our federal deficit?
It's to supply matching funds for presidential elections. i say "screw 'em" they have their super pacs - the corporations OWN america anywa6y...
I am sorry, new to this site and did not hit the reply button. I value your opinion, would you please see my 3rd post in response to your post?
My suggestion only has two things in common with what you posted, it is on a tax form and it is purely by choice, which apparently you make with good conscience, I applaud you and I am glad you shared your opinion as I have shared mine, I welcome comments from people who don't check that box, I would like to ask you as American citizen if you would mind if there was a box on the W-4 form that asks the individual filling it out if they would like to donate $1 per paycheck to help reduce the National Deficit. There would be no requirement to check the box, it would be purely by choice each individual American could make for themselves, same as on the Federal Income Tax form.
Can't get away from your past Romney...........
My heart goes out to the special military members who served and died in the line of service in Viet Nam.
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Romney served his mission in France, and was extended extra time there which was not authorized
under draft conditions.
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So what, he promoted the draft under duress situation for draftees, before he left for France.
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So it was OK to have other people die for our country, but he had other agendas when it came to saving his own way of life.
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He deserves a line right in there with Jan Fonda.
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Sorry but facts are facts and he is not a true religious person, he is and has been a rich son from a well to do rich family.
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Yes there were other high rollers that skipped out as well, but don't promote the draft and take a safe haven way out while doing it.
Low life phoney who wants to be president, I don't think so. Military people are against you Romney.