When I heard this last night it occurred to me that PA has a large Amish community and I know that some Amish do vote but they do not allow their pictures to be taken. How is this law going to effect them?

First Read -

In the poll, 49% say what they have seen, read, and heard about the country’s economy has made them less pessimistic, versus 43% who are more optimistic

Hey guys, what the hell is the difference between "Less Pessimistic" and "More Optimistic"?

You ask questions like these and then wonder why no one believes the polls that you put out.

Can I be the first one to chime in today on the Feisty conspiracy theory side?

Feisty is clearly a plant!!!! She went first again!!!! How does this always happen!!!!???? C'mon admit it...you work for MSNBC!!! No wait...I think you are actually Domenico posting under a fake name!!!

There...now I feel better!! ;-)

On the lighter side, my girlfriend (an Obama supporter) and I (a leaning Romney voter) were watching the local news last night down here in South Florida. They showed the President Obama ad where he talks about Mitt Romney's millionaire friends. The news story immediately following that was about the President's $40,000 per plate fundraiser yesterday down here. My girlfriend, after a long pause, turns and says, "Well, that could have been timed a bit better!"

Happy Wednesday all!!

@Ron -- So if illegal Hispanics are permitted to stay in this country to seek employment, how will the local, state and federal government tax collection organizations for each keep track of income, unemployment and social security taxes that need to be collected when there is no social security number involved? Is the government agencies now required to change the way they collect taxes and keep a record for income tax filings?

Do you have an answer/response to those questions?

Wow Feisty, I find it amazing that just now voter reform is big deal to you partisans. Not an issue in 2008, nor 2010, but now- OMG they may limit the number of actual voters to those whom are alive, non-felons, and actually are legal to do so. Puh-lease. It's hard for me to believe that you'd take it lightly if your legal vote to elect Obama were negated if an illegal immigrant chose to vote for Romney because they thought there might be jobs if the President changed.

BTW- Love the way your party is playing the money game lately. No DNC national convention opening party (not enough cash)- yeah right, just a plea to get more cash in on the quick. Are you having a wedding, birthday, batmitsfa(yeah I can't spell that)- why think about yourself on your biggest days, think of the President. Give him your money.

I'm waiting for the next DNC drive, "Why give to the church, tithe to the President. He can save you." "Why donate $1 to an African child, give to the President." Great job.

Re The Dem Convention: The Dems have a looong history of showing their true colors at gatherings like that and causing direct harm to their election chances. Chicago 1968 is a great example. My favorite was 2004 when the idiots gave Michael "McDonalds Killed More Than Al Qeada" a PRIME SEAT right next to Jimmy "Obama Is The Real Terrorist" Carter. The Dems failed to realize, or maybe a give a crap, that Michael Moore was only poplular and heroic among rich, elitist, condescending liberals. Oops.

Yeah so the democrats are staying away from their convention in droves! Can you blame them? It'll be more like a wake than a party... lol!

Topics of conversation:

"Can you believe that crook Rangle won? I hope I'm so lucky when I get busted!"

"Who do you think is the White House leak? Maybe they'll throw Michelle under the bus.... like they tried to do on that bus trip a few months ago 'promoting' Barry's failed jobs bill!"

"How many years will Holder get? Will Eric be the beneficiary of a Presidential pardon just before they all move back to Chicago?"

Yes folks, not going to be much fun in N.C. is it.... lmao!

If those polls are anywhere near accurate by Liberal standards,( Liberal polls tend to overestimate Their own strength), with only a 3 point difference ,47-44, Mr. Obama is in serious trouble, because historically,undecideds break almost entirely for the challenger.

Fast and Furious, While I do hold Fortune magazine in the highest esteem, I believe We probably should go ahead, just for fun, and get the actual information on what happened from this White House and AG, even if it has to be ordered to be released by a judge,(Holy shades of Watergate Barackman!).

The Dems Convention- Good News for the Dems, if people keep running away, think of all the time and money They will save When all they have to do is meet for Coffee at the local Waffle House One morning and They'll be done!

Frank -- to add a little fuel to the theory, it was 9:08 on my computer (accurate) and I clicked on the comment bar at 4 seconds when the story appeared. The story opened up and it was still 9:08 a.m. and Feisty and Ron had already posted with the time stamp of 9:09 a.m.

Also, for some reason Ron posted on the first 2.0 post then deleted it, left it blank and posted immediately under Feisty. Why? Also, when I try to leave a posting blank, the site won't let me.

Ben (Numbers)

You may wish to direct your questions to the Supreme Court. As the umpire I call them the way I see them. Balls and Strikes. The Supreme Court said they could seek employment and keep their jobs.

First Read - Later today, we'll unveil our NBC/WSJ/Telemundo oversample of Latino respondents

Once again, NBC doing anything it can to drive the news. Anything for that headline, eh guys.

How about you oversample a demographic that supports Romney, like White Men and Women?

Or would that be racist?

MSNBC is really struggling for ratings:

http:// needs to preempt this link

tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/06/25/cable-news-ratings-for-friday-june-22-2012/139149/

Grimey

About DumbFux, yesterday I posted right after her blank post. I intentionally worded my response in specific terms and posted it. I waited until the last few seconds and went in to edit my post. In the time while I was editing my words old DumbFux responded to my original posting. The trouble was that I comepletely changed the wording of my post so her response looked like her typical rambling which had nothing to do with what I had posted on my edited post. I waited for about a minute and "refreshed" the site. Guess what? My original post showed up. I refreshed again and my original post was there again. After refreshing 4 times my edited post returned. Someone had to have had some control over the posting and was trying to make a DumbFux look brighter than they really are. So I'm with you, she works for MSNBC.

I got booted for a week once for saying "you can't fix stupid". Pretty harsh huh?

First Read - For Romney, 43% of the answers were negative. The top examples: wealthy

Only in the Libby Land of First Read is being wealthy a negative.

You guys are absolutely hilarious with this stuff!

no Jobbie1, the bottom line is that for a sitting President... Barack Hussein Obama's numbers are horrible! And numbers don't lie as much as the libbies would like to think! There will be no celebrating in N.C. this year....

Unfortunately for Mitt Romney, he'll inherit a far worse economy than Bush left Barry! Thats to the obummer... there is no Republican, Democrat, or Independent that can balance the budget the neighborhood organizer left us!

Frank "Grimey", so how did your girlfriend and you feel about Mitt Romney smoozing with his billionaire and SuperPAC pals at their weekend retreat? Not that they were "coordinating" their efforts or anything, really, they were just palling around and having some fun in Utah.

Sorry, "Grimey", no disrespect intended to my conservative friend but that was a cheap shot by someone who previously commented that he didn't like Mitt Romney, whose candidate of choice Jon Huntsman was quite eloquent in pointing out who/what Romney is. Romney has held equally high-cost per plate fund raising events so to comment only about President Obama's fundraising efforts is disingenuous.

Both candidates must hold such fundraising events; always have, and until campaign finance laws are changed, they will be forced to continue smoozing the wealthy.

It's Obama's fault that gas prices are plummeting! It's Obama's fault!

Oh, wait. . . .

Many of the low information Republican conservative folks don't understand facts. They just hate President Obama no matter what.

However, I get great pleasure in knowing that President Obama is going to stick it to these Republicans by winning re-election, and helping to stop the dumb down of America crowd from advancing their empty suit Willard with the Nervous Nelly laugh.

I also find it amazing that people, consisting of low information mind sets actually overlook the total lies that Flip Romney tells on a daily basic. I bet the new definition of “Snake Oil Salesmen,” is going to be listed as Willard M. Romney, aka Etch a Sketch Man.

Well Frank, that didn't take long, did it? These Libs here liked you right up until you said you were leaning Romney.

Now you are disingenuous.

Personally, I thought your story was kind of funny. Anyone who thinks that money is only buying one of these parties is being....ummm what's the word???

Oh yeah, disingenuous.

Bain Capital under Mitt's leadership ('84 - '99) had the single best set of returns of any P.E. in world.

Mitt and his team made billions in investment gains buying and turning around a multiplicity of businesses. The beneficiaries? Public Pension funds (e.g. teachers, government workers) and endowments (students).

Success by ANY objective standard.

Harley Chic, if you're going to rant about democrats, at least call the party by their correct name: Democratic Party, not democrat party. I find it beyond belief that conservatives claim the Democratic Party is eviscerating the Constitution while the GOPTP slowly eliminates voting rights, women's rights, civil rights, works to thwart the First Amendment and democracy as we know it.

Barry: Nonsense.

Jack in Portsmouth

No kidding! When gas prices were rising the msm never failed to tell us this would prevent President Obama's re-election.

Now they are falling, and no mention of a corollary, "Guess Obama is a shoo-in, now!"

Jody, i will call them whatever i want to call them, for now, i still have my first amendment rights. :-)

I said I was leaning Romney. Haven't made up my mind yet and I still reserve that right. Haven't had any debates yet. No conventions yet. Yes...Jon Huntsman was absolutely my candidate. May write him in. Who knows.

Jody...no disrespect taken. I think you may have misunderstood my post. My girlfriend can't stand Mitt Romney and is a huge Obama supporter. (We are an interesting couple in that respect...LOL). She just found the timing of the news story and commercial ironic. She actually asked me if I thought the local news did that on purpose. To be honest...the President is advertising in our market far more than Romney at this point. She knows that there is money all over politics regardless of party. And she is well aware of Mitt Romney's wealth and the wealth of his supporters.

Harley Chic

Success by ANY objective standard.

Success by the standards of vulture capitalism. Some pension funds made money off Bain investments. Other pension funds were destroyed by Bain and had to be bailed out by the federal government at taxpayer expense. Whatever the case, Bain always made money, whether the companies they took over succeeded or failed, and whether the workers were all fired or merely had to take cuts in pay and benefits.

Frank, Crossroads if funded by a few twisted $billionaires...that don't need $40,000 plates.

Any idea of the $$multi-millions that Crossroads has committed to spending? And that is only what they are saying in public, because they refuse to disclose.

Crossroads is masquerading as a "social welfare" organization so it can hide its donors. It is not supposed to be about a candidate. Supposed to be about "issues", but Rove is doing his own thing.

Rove has always thought he was above the Law.

SCOTUS is in the tank with the transnationals here. We know that. But Frank, did you think Dems were going to roll over for them?

Romney can't get around the fact that his policies will hurt the middle class and help the upper classes. He is as much as a deciever as Obama is. What makes him worse than Obama is that he wants to put a double whammy on the middle class. By endorsing the ndaa act taking away our bill of rights. Then by making tax policies that help the rich and hurt the middle class. Then shutting down the ACA with no alternative to talk about. He says we have to wait and see. He is also catering to the builderbergs and the business roundtable who are both known to have NWO agendas. We don't need him in office.He is not out for our best interests. This guy is a phony.

Backhouse...I am fully aware of this. I am fully aware of the money available to Crossroads. Please re-read my post. Where did I say or insinuate that only the President is raising huge amounts of money? And of course, I would not expect the Dems to roll over.

My point was irony and timing. A commercial about how the other guy has millionaire's friends followed IMMEDIATELY by a news story on a high priced fundraiser. I would have laughed if I had seen a commercial about Mitt Romney relating to the common man followed by a news item on him buying an island nation.

I have consistently said that there is too much money in politics. I said it in 2008, 2010, and I'm saying it again in 2012. I've been pretty consistent about that.

@Frank Grimey

Too funny .. your GF is right, timing is everything. Thank for pointing out the humor, it is needed during this hysteria. And what do we do about that Feisty aka Domenico, aka Todd, aka Maddow, aka O'Donnell, aka Halerpin, aka Mark or whatever flavor of the week the right calls her this week? Perhaps we should run a test, something along the lines of sit by your PC, look at the screen for 12 hours without blinking, and see if the name Feisty appears in subliminal text. If you see the word Feisty magically appear, that is living proof that Feisty is a super-secret agent working for MSNBC with special post first powers.

RedDevPS:

Feisty is a super-secret agent working for MSNBC with special post first powers.

I KNEW IT!!!!!!!!! ;-)

As for the test, I am gonna let someone else try that one. But, it should be noted...look at the first line of First Thoughts and the letters I have bolded:

Despite another eventFul month, Obama vs. Romney rEmaIns STeadY, per

Yup...proof positive!! ;-)

Today Stockton, tomorrow California, next week United States

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/06/stockton-bankruptcy-will-make-history-residents-reeling.html

I don't know if Stockton was fiscally irresponsible or just unlucky. I don't know if it was run by Democrats or Republicans. I do know that if we continue to borrow 8%-10% of our GDP every year we will go bankrupt too.

To all those who think you can't change Medicare or SS because of the pain it inflicts, go read the article and understand that these retirees are in danger of losing everything.

Ron -- Please post the exact language where the SC said they can seek employment and keep their jobs. A W2 and/or 1099 is required to work for any employer and it is required to file that paperwork with the local, state and federal agencies for tax collection and record keeping -- such as SS# and address.

You do a hell of a lot more than call balls and strikes on here so don't feed us that stuff. You comment quite loudly. If I was an employer and doing everything legally, I would require a SS# for all my employees. Is this ruling like an unfunded bill that is passed but with no teeth?

Jody

I love how you libs are getting upset when you hear "democrat party". There is nothing DEMOCRATIC about the progressive/liberals in this country today. You better get used to being called democRATS. I have said all along that this Obama administration will see to it that democrats get booted out for years to come. The shellacking in 2010 was just the beginning.

Despite another eventFul month, Obama vs. Romney rEmaIns STeadY, per

@Frank - you aR part Of an eVil Rove-ian plot intEnt on slaying liberals through laughter. Now play nice, you devil!!

Barry Kardashian- Congrats on that hilarious avatar. I think I might need to find a new one to try and top it. lol

Harley Chic- I think I love you. Please tell me you're not a man with a hot chick on his avatar. My heart couldn't stand the pain. I would be more devestated and depressed and humiliated than a liberal come November 2012.

Actually Fiesty, that's nothing more than liberal spin trying to put words in his mouth he never said. If you take it at face value, it means that Romney can win if there isn't a bunch of people voting that SHOULDN'T be voting.

Two elections I can think of that democrats have twisted is the governor election in WA a few years back (forget her name, too lazy to look it up) that she forced THREE recounts to win, and Reid winning NV in the last election.

We do need stronger voter ID laws to make sure that the only people voting are the ones that can legally vote.

When the debates get going Romney is finished.

A couple of things: I think Romney is old school Republican (which concerns me greatly), but I will have no problem in voting for him over Obama. Mind you, I am legally allowed to vote so that might be a problem.

I'm guessing his "honeymoon" in office will be about a month. He's going to be strung up on the following very quickly- Any "cuts" he may propose, any "reforms" he may propose, the verbage used in his first State of the Union address, that although he tans he's white which isn't right, that the US has a budget deficit, that there isn't/won't be a Congressional budget, his appointments to cabinet positions will likely be Republicans, etc. etc. etc.

The reality is the world economy is very soft and many countries are going to fail- which will put the US in further jeopardy over the next few years (because we've been buying their debt, making agreements to aid them, and that they are our largest export group). It's going to suck here. The choice is moreso one of do you want the government to control more of what you do, taking more of what you make, and deciding for you what you can do with what you have or are you interested in having as much manuverability as possible in a changing environment. The military would teach that a mobile, agile unit would be the best method for dealing with situations as they come up. I tend to agree thus I think it would be better to keep government power in check now, making strategic changes that position our country to come out of the back end of the coming collapse in such a way as to lead the world again into the next growth period. We aren't going to be able to do that if we keep spending ourselves into oblivion (without a budget or resolve), don't make major changes to US tax codes- flat taxes and get corporations back into the US, make real (national) immigration reform policies, and redirect Americans to take a vested interest in their lives and depend to some degree on thier own capabilities and not the government for their daily lives. Diatribe over.

Despite another eventFul month, Obama vs. Romney rEmaIns STeadY, per

Great Grimey!

You didn't have to give these paranoid parrots any more ammo now did you?

Now you went & done it! ;o)

Gotta go clean off my monitor!

Funny, the msm ascribes Romney's low approval ratings to negative ads, but they don't make the connection between the negative-word associations for Obama to the relentless negative press he receives.

Nonpartisan watchdogs like the Pew Study show Obama get's more negative press than his opponents. I believe it. I watch the Sunday shows and they book Republican attack dogs over Democratic surrogates, 2:1

It has become necessary for THIS President to do his day job AND constantly raise money, due to DARK money that can come from anywhere and any country. No transparency, no accountability. That's a fair election?

When President Carter ran for re-election, folks ticked a box on their tax returns, saying if they agreed to $3 or $4 dollars to go into the presidential election pot. And they ran on ISSUES, not tearing down candidates.

Where are the conservatives complaining that Big Money is buying up our government, and our elections?

JobsJobsJobs? Why do they not INSIST that GOP vote for the millions of jobs in the AJA and Transportation bill? Why do the conservatives on here give their corrupt party leaders a free pass on the future of America.

GOP is not in it for anybody except the very rich, and themselves. And as far as they're concerned - the Constitution be damned - let the country go to hell.

Their big plan for us is let Big Money buy it all up, and let ordinary people pay the price for not being wealthy.

Oh yeh.

AlexM,

The funny thing about that is, thus far, only one man is known to have actually cast a fraudulent vote. No other examples have been found, otherwise, the Republicans would be all over it like white on rice.

In 2010, a man who used to live in Massachusetts, but had moved to California, made a special trip back to Massachusetts to vote in the special election to replace the late Ted Kennedy. This man, as I said before, did not live in Massachusetts anymore and did not own property in Massachusetts. He even went as far as lying on the voter registration form, listing an address in his son's basement as his place of residence. According to Massachusetts law, a residence for voter registration purposes as “where a person dwells and which is the center of his domestic, social, and civil life” and anyone found guilty of committing voter fraud faces up to five years in jail and a $10,000 fine.

So who is this man that committed voter fraud in 2010? Why, it's none other than the presumptive GOP presidential nominee, Mitt Romney.

So, Republicans of the vine, tell us again how serious of a crime voter fraud is, then, tell us why Mitt Romney is the exception.

You didn't have to give these paranoid parrots any more ammo now did you?

Well Feisty, I did ask for proof and he did provide the fodder and he had to look no further than a headline. I think Frank has an inner-liberal waiting to burst out - his sense of humor betrays his conservative slant.

@Beverly in Chicago

You are upset at the Koch brothers? Maybe you should check all the degenerate, racist groups that Soros supports

If NBC can keep finding people who still admit to being Democrats they might be able to keep increasing the percentage of Dems in their "polls" enough to make the results appear close right up until their massive election day loss:

Strong Democrat ........................... 21
Not very strong Democrat ............. 11
Independent/lean Democrat .......... 10
Strictly Independent ....................... 14
Independent/lean Republican ........ 14
Not very strong Republican ........... 11
Strong Republican ......................... 13
Other (VOL) ................................... 4
Not sure ....................................... 2

From page 27 of the so-called "poll".

Polls are as relevant as Feisty's posts.

pjam,

All pollsters poll more Democrats than Republicans, including conservative pollsters Rasmussen and Fox News. Why is that? The answer should be obvious; There are more Democrats than Republicans. Go look at the demographics from any poll from any conservative pollster, you will see the exact same thing.

Backhouse speaking of Jimmy Carter, how does it feel to have a former Democrat President accuse a sitting Democrat President of human rights abuses for drone attacks. Pretty much called President Obama a war criminal. Isn't that how most war criminals are charged, human rights abuses. Guess Carter wants to get rid of the mantle of Worst President ever.

Btw Who really cares if Feisty is #1 or #10 posting, it is still going to be the same, one way or the other.

If Obamacare is declared unconstitutional, I would hope no one uses the word wasted, may cause the President to revert to his youthful activities and snort a line.

Prediction: November 2012 America has elected a new President and Michelle Obama is quoted as saying, "I have never been more disgusted with this country as I am today."

Anna Molly Rechecked on your reply yesterday and you were correct. My bad. Have a nice day.

Amy -- Romney is not as appealing as his campaign or msm would have you believe according to this experiment. Ha!

Political websites that are inundated with traffic right now ought to consider an astoundingly effective app for turning readers away. It’s free. It’s the phrase “Mitt Romney.”

Put that buzzkill phrase in a headline and watch readers scram.

That’s according to Buzzfeed, the site that chronicles the vagaries of the viral web, where the news of the Romney reader curse was first reported. Many editors have shared their disappointment with the appetite for Romney stories, but Buzzfeed conducted an actual experiment.

http://news.yahoo.com/mitt-romney--internet-buzzkill--why-you-won’t-click-on-this-article.html

Virginia Dem,

Mitt Romney broke the law when he voted for Scott Brown, and claimed he was living in his son's basement in MA.

He wasn't. Romney and his wife had resided in California for some time.

This is the 'Special Privilege-Above-The-Law GOP position', being excercised here.

We should throw the book at Mitt Romney for committing a rare but on the record, Voter Fraud. Isn't it jail time?

Only the highest form of idiot would paint Trayvon Martin as a political issue.

ROMNEY CAUGHT with HIRING ILLEGALS!

When Romney was caught hiring Illegal aliens to work on his landscaping, did he just fire them or did he call ICE and have them deported?....We all know the answer to that one don't we! He did nothing! He kept hiring the same firm and did it all over again.......Good ol turn em loose Romney. Repubs say illegals are criminals, so Romney is a criminal for hiring them. Christ he is a multimillionaire and he couldn't hire Americans to do the jobs. Had to get a few more pennies from American workers......GREED GREED GREED at your expense

The convention story is bogus... I am sorry, but I just do not see where it implies that candidates should distance themselves from Obama. I see it is as saying these elections are extremely important focus on your election. That is only an opinion so I guess the Republicans are entitled to their own no matter how little sense it makes.

I am still not sure how Romney has as much wind behind his sails as he does. He has come out with a bunch of unspecific comments about complex government mechanics. I cannot see how any one can find his vague language appealing.

What really confuses me is as the media starts to hone in on the premise that he is not providing any solution no one seems to flinch. How can you run your entire campaign on how someone is doing an awful job, with no proof that they are doing a terrible job and no solutions of your own?

Before those on the right can pick my words, I am not saying that the President is doing an excellent job, I am saying there is no proof he is doing a bad job. If you do not have specific policies he should have followed that would have created a better result you do not have an argument, much like the current Republicans. Their mantra right now can be described as HE is bad WE are better, but we can't tell you why yet.

We can always just lower taxes. It always works and really helps close the deficit gap.

I am shocked, shocked I tell you! Someone would lie to try and make the President look bad? Teapublicans would support it without due diligence? Oh my stars, heavens to Betsy. From the "nothing burger with cheese" of Whitewater to the four "Watergates" of the BP oil spill, Solyndra, NYT leaks and Fast and Furious, Teapublicans have been trying to do anything to smear the President. Combine that with the foot-dragging work ethic of their ilk in Congress and it's no wonder the electorate hold the right wing in such low repute.

As for polling, RCP shows the President with 303 electoral votes, while at the gambling end of the spectrum, Intrade shows the President at 263 electoral votes with Illinois as a toss-up with 20 electoral votes. Rombot has to run the table, and that boy is all chalk and no stick. Because "outsourcer in chief" doesn't play in Peoria. Also...

Rombot.Has.Nothing.

@ForePlinger

We don't have to try to make the Pres look bad, he has been really good at doing that himself

"We are focused on making sure that we meet our obligations that we've talked about for years," said Turzai in a speech to committee members Saturday. He mentioned the law among a laundry list of accomplishments made by the GOP-run legislature.

How in the Hell can that be interpreted as an admission of trying to suppress Democratic voters? The obligation is to ensure that voters aren't disenfranchised through voter fraud, which was rampant in 2008.

Before those on the right can pick my words, I am not saying that the President is doing an excellent job, I am saying there is no proof he is doing a bad job. If you do not have specific policies he should have followed that would have created a better result you do not have an argument, much like the current Republicans. Their mantra right now can be described as HE is bad WE are better, but we can't tell you why yet.

We can always just lower taxes. It always works and really helps close the deficit gap.

How much would taxes have rise to close the deficit and pay for the increases in Medicare and SS? Deficit is 1.3T, Clinton tax rates would bring in aprrox 400B (during Clinton's economy, probably lower now). So you're short 900B plus the 100B a year that Medicare increases.

Specific Policy = Simpson-Bowles.

@harley- There is no war on the Constitution. In the Constitution, it says the president can use executive powers, if needed. This is the time when we need it because Congress has been doing nothing. He has followed much more of the constitution than most of the presidents. If he has not followed the constitution then he would have to be in front of congress explaining himself. Much like LBJ did, when he set an attack on Vietnam to start the war, without congressional approval.

There is no compromise for this congress, they've said it themselves. Even though, this president has used republican ideas with his democratic ideas. But just because Obama is put in front of it, it's socialist...

Usual boring off topic posts regurgitating each others innuendo and lies...same song 95th verse. You twats are on parade.........oh my visualzation of you fatsos just might make someone puke.

Barry Kardashian- Congrats on that hilarious avatar. I think I might need to find a new one to try and top it. lol

Damages, actually I like the name 'Barry Kardashian' better than the avitar! It represents Obama's unusual fascination with the Hollywood lifestyle. Barry Obama is more suited as a sidekick to Jimmy Fallow than an occupant of the Oval Office! In fact he's been awfully successful turning the administration into a Saturday Morning Cartoon!

Jody, Iowa

Feisty, Ron, Beverly, well said. As VP Joe Biden said earlier this year, the republicans used to hide the ball but not now, it's right out there for everyone to see. It should make everyone angry because if the GOP cannot win legitimately, they will thwart democracy to do it.

THANK YOU Jody,

This is why RepubliCONS don't like VP Biden. He speaks nothing but the truth.

Obama/Biden 2012!!!!!

Fired UP; ready to GO.

Suggest, start visualizing a better world. And not just for the top one-tenth of one percent income earners like Romney. Romney receives $57,000 per day c/o Bain.

Suggest your elected representatives vote FOR instead of against the million jobs in the AJA and Transportation Bill -- that GOP is hoping to postpone till after their vacation.

(GOP/Koch will hold fixing our Infrastructure hostage to Something - -maybe extending your unemployment benefits.

But really ANYTHING WILL DO SO LONG AS IT HURTS OUR ECONOMY, as GOP seniors officials pledged to do, on Inauguration Day 2009.)

How in the Hell can that be interpreted as an admission of trying to suppress Democratic voters?

I wouldn't expect you to understand it, with your critical thinking skills being what they are!

The obligation is to ensure that voters aren't disenfranchised through voter fraud, which was rampant in 2008.

Of course you can provide a source for this?

Thanks!

Like when Biden asked the wheelchair bound vet to stand up?

Colorado Man - You're a liar. Voter Fraud was NOT rampant in 2008. Republicans tell themselves that so they can believe their pitiful candidates McCain/Palin (there is no problem with the US economy) would have done better. They WOULDN'T HAVE - THEY DIDN'T. Voter Fraud was practically non-existent except in the very small minds of the mental midgets on the right!

Obama/Biden 2012

Fisting Redhead, so your taking the statement that voter id laws will make Romney win to mean that they will suppress democrat voters? That's a stretch. He may mean that the democrats will not be able to stuff the ballot box.

In the Wisc. recall election, there was a district that voted in favor of the recall with something like a 119% voter turnout. 119%?

Add the fact that the Supreme Court has ruled that requiring a photo id to vote is NOT Unconstitutional!

So go be a good little liberal and help more illegals cross the border!

Funny theres an awful lot of dead people and illegals voting

Just like voter fraud was rampant in the 2000 election for Florida. They've arrested people for the past decade because many of the voter locations did not have Al Gore on the ballot.

First Read:

Problems with the “Fast and Furious” story?

Good grief! This Fortune story is what would be called "explosive" it were about how bleeding-heart liberal Democrats passed legislation that prevented law enforcement officers from arresting criminals who supplied guns to other criminals that then used them to murder people. But it's not, it's about how rabid gun-nut Republicans passed legislation that prevented law enforcement officers from arresting criminals who supplied guns to other criminals that then used them to murder people.

So the corporate media probably won't let this story interfere too much with Darrel Issa's witch hunt. The Republicans are the ones who are gun-walking, not Eric Holder. His main shortcoming is that he caved in too much to the Republicans. The original letter asserting that the ATF had ordered gun-walking were false. The only gun-walking was done by the Republicans' star "whistle blower" on his own and without approval from his superiors, and the weapons involved weren't even the ones linked to the border agent's death. Those weapons were "walked" by a criminal the ATF had to let go because the Republican gun "rights" laws left them with no legal basis for an arrest.

So Issa is going to go ahead anyway and charge Eric Holder with contempt for a coverup of something that did not even happen, except in the fevered minds of bloggers in the conservative wingnut-o-sphere.

Problems with the “Fast and Furious” story?

In the Wisc. recall election, there was a district that voted in favor of the recall with something like a 119% voter turnout. 119%?

Hmmm...

I haven't heard that - could you please provide the link?

So far none of your com-padres are will to back up their bull@!$%# - are you up for the challenge?

@mhr- Please tell me what's so wrong with immigrants coming into this country. Thats what this country was made for, to be a melting pot. To grow, to have the american dream. I'm pretty sure our founding fathers didn't have a green card when they came into the country. And who knows, your ancestry could be illegal immigrants

Hey Damage,

You think Bobby Jindahl will be Mutt's running mate?

Alan, does Romney support Simpson Bowles? Also, I did not say tax increases were the solution, though I do think they are part of it- not tax decreases. Not a fan of tax reform, but it is better than nothing.

I'm completely against the tax reform that Paul Ryan is suggesting though. I have stated since I first heard of it that the loopholes they mention closing seem as if it would hit the middle class more than those who are rich, and now recently news outlets are reporting that very same thing.

I like what the President is doing, many do not. Even if what he is doing is not right, I do not believe in anyway what Romney suggest is anywhere near closer to what is the correct path for the country.

@Houston!

Fast and furious never happened? You must be smoking some good stuff along with the rest of the libs

Why don't they bring in some of the Bush Administration for investigation. Oh wait, that would be bad for the republicans, since Romney took the majority of them.

The millions spent by governors like Walker on Voter ID (A.L.E.C. boiler plate) is wasted taxmoney. It is well-known that his new laws would not fix the problem even if the problem existed.

In NY, with all the millions of people, the incidence of voter fraud is 0.00004 or something like that. When looked at closely, those cases turn out to be badly written documentation by clerks, unusual names, bad spelling - and one case of a well-meaning Mother doing a ballot for her daughter.

If you know anything about the process, you will know that the clerks at the Court House who check your voter registration go to great lengths, back-checking and making sure your registration is Valid.

Don't underestimate how much research these worthy and hardworking government workers do on your Voter Registration.

That is how we know that Mitt Romney was lying when he said he was living in his son's basement---when he voted for MA Scott Walker in 2010.

President Barack Obama leads Mitt Romney in the three critical swing states of Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania, a Quinnipiac University Swing State Poll released Wednesday shows.

The poll shows Obama with a tight 4-point edge in Florida, a healthy 9 points in Ohio and 6 points in Pennsylvania.

That's a change from a Quinnipiac University poll on May 3 that showed Obama with an 8-point lead in Pennsylvania with Florida and Ohio too close to call.

Here's the state-by-state breakdown from the latest poll:

• Florida: Obama edges Romney 45 — 41 percent;
• Ohio: Obama over Romney 47 — 38 percent;
• Pennsylvania: Obama tops Romney 45 — 39 percent.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-leads-romney-three-key-states-poll-shows-110422042.html

TWO more dems just announced they will vote to hold Eric Witholder in Contempt!

Get ready for another FIRST for the Obama administration...and like all the others, it ain't good.

I see Fortune Magazine bears what I, and many others said about "fast and furious". This is the reason no reputable news sources gave it any attention as "Issa the criminal" and the "right wing" mental cream puffs were constructing that particular pile of hot air inflated bullsh^t. Just proves again; the GOP, for whatever reason, has dedicated all Its efforts to the cultivation, strewing, and feeding Its warped followers a steady diet of this otherwise odious replete. The people of the congressional districts of both "Issa the criminal" in California, and "Ryan the deceiver" in Wisconsin should be caned for allowing these sons-a-bitches to act as their representatives. Tis a gwaddamned shame!

Backhouse

Thanks so much for mentioning Jimmy Carter. Boy he was a loser wasn't he! Kind of like Obama. In fact, the last time that the dems had such a majority in Congress and held the White House was in Jimmy's administration. Remember those good old days?

1/20/2013 - the end of an error

Here in Detroit, the Registrar of voters stated back in Dec that we had more voters on the rolls than people Old enough to vote. Im guessing you guys dont see an issue with that.

"Grebner estimates Detroit has about 337,000 active voters who are ... voters who should be purged from Detroit's rolls, more than 20,000 are dead."

http://www.detroitblog.org/?p=310

Is there a point to the majority of congress? The majority did not matter when Ted Kennedy died. A republican took his seat and then the historic number of filibusters came along.

Fools Gold --

Does anybody else notice that none of the senior members of this administration seem to know what their underlings are doing? Apparently, President Obama doesn't know what Eric Holder and the DOJ are up to; Eric Holder doesn't know whats going on at the ATF and now Janet Napolitano doesn't know whats happening at ICE.

Are you surprised? Do you suppose that every President knows exactly what his cabinet officers are doing at all time, let alone what underagencies like ICE are doing?

Do you think that George W. Bush always knew what Dick Cheney was doing? Please.

As for agencies, how about George W. Bush, FEMA?

Heckuva job, Brownie.

Justredd64 --

Usual boring off topic posts regurgitating each others innuendo and lies...same song 95th verse. You twats are on parade.........oh my visualzation of you fatsos just might make someone puke.

Even more disgusting than usual. I suppose you think that your garden-variety dirty troll talk is interesting or even amusing.

Guess again.

The only reason I'm responding at all is that it happens to be staring me in the face as I write the rest of my post.

Grow up, junior. This isn't the middle school locker room anymore.

And be sure stay off the school buses, or you'll just end up making another bus monitor rich.

And conservatives hate the thought of that, don't they?

Harley Chic - you should stick to riding motorcycles - clearly that's all you're suited for. You just spout lie after lie and think anyone is going to believe you? How many times have you fallen off the bike and hit your head. It appears that's the norm for you!

Obama/Biden 2012

If we'd listened to President Carter, the United States would be the world leader of Clean and Green Energy production and industry.

Instead of a teeny-tiny country like Germany, that is now in a position to sell clean energy to its neighbors.

Meanwhile Reagan took the solar panels off the White House, and went ALL IN with the Oil Barons that we know and love today.

@Mac Forrester

If not for Issa, there would be no justice

What justice? If they get the papers, they are ruining an ongoing investigation. That's justice?

"It is hard to interest those who have everything in those who have nothing."

When Helen Keller, who was born on this date in 1880, either spoke or wrote those words, I'll bet she never thought that conservatives would adopt them as a playbook.

Heck, I'll bet Mitt Romney has these words embroidered on his satin pillows.

The GOP will fail to win the Whitehouse for one simple reason, their candidate does not have any reason why people should vote for him. When the entire campaign is based on the "Vote for me because I'm not the other guy" theme, there can be no strong support.

As to the so called voter suppression, the GOP will likely find that the effort to prevent voters from registering and voting will fail, miserably. Many states have had voter ID requirements for years, yet people still vote. In states like Florida where the GOP is attempting to purge voters from the registered voter roles, the Justice department is taking action to prevent that fraud. Its more likely that because of actions like this that the state will become bluer than California and its governor one and done.

Harley Chic --

TWO more dems just announced they will vote to hold Eric Witholder in Contempt!

Get ready for another FIRST for the Obama administration...and like all the others, it ain't good.

Are you really so ignorant that you don't recognize the power of the gun lobby? Or do you just not care?

Like all the other corporate influence in DC, "it ain't good."

jollyoldsoul --

"Grebner estimates Detroit has about 337,000 active voters who are ... voters who should be purged from Detroit's rolls, more than 20,000 are dead."

What's your point? I'll bet that most large American cities could find the names of many dead people on their voting rolls.

Or did you personally vote to give Detroit money so that they could coordinate their voting lists against the obituaries?

I didn't think so.

People die. It's not a conspiracy.

BUT there was that Republican party chair in Pennsylvania who DID admit that there IS a conspiracy to use voter ID legislation for the precise purpose of winning elections.

Why don't you take your phony outrage over there and spew your hate?

Or, wait. I suspect I know why.

You are such a hypocrite.

ChasSD

Fast and furious never happened? You must be smoking some good stuff along with the rest of the libs

The ATF never sponsored any "gun-walking." That is what was reported in the Fortune article that you apparently didn't read or are too stupid to read. There were "Fast and Furious" suspects who got away from the ATF because the Republicans' gun "rights" laws made the straw-buyers' purchases of massive arsenals legal and left the ATF with no legal grounds for arrests. Understand that, or did I use words that are too big for you to understand?

Anna Molly - Harley Chic is that ignorant.

ChasED

@Beverly in Chicago

You are upset at the Koch brothers? Maybe you should check all the degenerate, racist groups that Soros supports

Degenerate??

Apparently, you haven't seen the degenerate life time idiotic, paranoid, Teabaggers the Koch brothers support; have you? You people have used every type of imagery and hate to expresses your phobia of a Black President and world; not to mention assaulting his family a s well.

PROOF the TEABAGGERS are RACIST, VIOLENT, and DISGUSTING:

http://www.blueridgemuse.com/wp-

Racist Teabagger Calls For Assassination of Entire Obama Family

http://wonkette.com/458534/racist-teabagger-calls-for-assassination-of-entire-obama-family

content/uploads/2010/03/teapartyracism2.jpg

http://latftp.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/gear_c.jpg

Davenport Defiant Racist Orange County Republican Email: President Obama and His Parents Are Apes

​UPDATE, APRIL 16, 5:55 P.M.:This afternoon, Marilyn Davenport sent

http://media.247sports.com/Uploads/Boards/205/22205/108626.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_tdQibIWZXrg/SrApG32AKwI/AAAAAAAAA1k/a-Xe6L_ZeWo/s320/michelle-obama.jpg

Let's not forget the groups the filthy Koch brothers who could very well be our enemies since they're secret.

FYI: Soros gave 1 million to Media Matters; that's a drop in the bucket compared to the Kochs and other gazillionaires who support groups to make the inner racist come put of people like you morons.

Needn't worry in NOVEMEBR you can put your 3 prone hats, and sheets away.

Seeking Sanity --

Anna Molly - Harley Chic is that ignorant.

But I'll bet she looks great in leather.

Backhouse --

Meanwhile Reagan took the solar panels off the White House, and went ALL IN with the Oil Barons that we know and love today.

Precisely, my dear Watson. Precisely.

ChasSD#1.105: Really? And at the end of each rainbow there IS a "POT O Gold.

@Houston!

So what has Holder been hiding for months now and Obama's executive privlege trying to cover up?

@ CHAS- the ongoing investigation that is going to be ruined if they give them more papers than what they need.

ChasSD --

So what has Holder been hiding for months now and Obama's executive privlege trying to cover up?

I give up, what?

You have no idea, do you? Neither does Darrell Issa. Not one shred of evidence of anything being done wrong.

As I said yesterday, there are many reasons for invoking executive privilege that have nothing to do with covering anything up.

Just ask Dick Cheney, after all, why he invoked executive privilege for those 2001 meetings with the oil companies.

Sigh.

We went through this with Bill Clinton in the 1990s. Republicans noisily and impotently flailing around for years and years, unable to make any of their unfounded allegations stick, until finally they caught him in a dastardly lie about a consensual sexual affair that had nothing to do with where the witchhunt began. And all the while using these "investigations" to excuse themselves from doing any REAL work.

Let me ask you this --

As a conservative, are you proud of the waste of taxpayer time and money that is happening here, which ought to going for something REALLY significant?

Like passing REAL jobs legislation?

And by the way, where is the House's immigration reform legislation?

You all complain about Obama not proposing any. Then why doesn't the House get its backside off the dime of these endless, worthless witchhunts and give us THEIR immigration plan?

You know why they don't. They don't because what they really plan to do is to use it as an issue for the election and then promptly ignore it again.

While MadDog Issa just keeps snuffling around, looking for a bone.

He knows it's there somewhere, dang it, if he only keeps digging long enough.

Dig, dig.

@Anna Molly

No where near the waste of taxpayer money that Obama has "invested" in his green energy debacle

anything that waste taxpayer money and is against Obama, is always good to the conservatives. just like the want less government in everyones life, but they want to force religion down our throat.

Biker Chic - You go girl. I just love anyone who gets under the skin of these crazed libbies.

What is wrong with some of you? Fast and Furious never happened????

Keep your heads buried in the sand and LEAN FORWARD, this won't hurt a bit.

ChasSD --

No where near the waste of taxpayer money that Obama has "invested" in his green energy debacle

I'll take that as a "no."

Good. For a moment there, I thought you might be proud of it.

JH --

What is wrong with some of you? Fast and Furious never happened????

No, and neither did Gunrunner, did it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) ran a series of "gunwalking" sting operations^[2][3] between 2006^[4] and 2011.^[2][5] This was done under the umbrella of Project Gunrunner, a project intended to stem the flow of firearms into Mexico by interdicting straw purchasers and gun traffickers within the United States.^[6] "Gunwalking" or "letting guns walk" was a tactic whereby the ATF knowingly allowed thousands of guns to be bought by suspected arms traffickers ("gunrunners") working through straw purchasers on behalf of Mexican drug cartels.^[7]

See how easy it is? If you can be in denial, then so can I.

Fiesty, your a joke. Always spewing hate whenever given the chance. Your posts are nothing but inflamatory. Always hell bent on pumping out as much controversy, as much negativity to anyone whose views differentiate from yours. Im tired of you, and all your fanboys.

Ontopic:

As bad of a candidate as Romney is, hes only....3% behind Obama. That speaks Novels for how unbelievably bad Obama is.

NYPride --

That speaks Novels for how unbelievably bad Obama is.

By George, I believe you may be right.

"Novels" being fictional, of course.

Im tired of you [Feisty], and all your fanboys.

Jealous, more like it.

Going after Obama and Holder on Fast and Furious despite evidence to the contrary.

Attaching abortion over-regulation to a flood relief bill.

Suppressing voter registration despite non-existent fraud.

All of these actions are well documented, both on First Read and elsewhere on the web. Look them up.

This is your Republican party at work. Proud, much?

ChasSD

@Anna Molly

No where near the waste of taxpayer money that Obama has "invested" in his green energy debacle

I know that the Republicans want to go back to 1812 but green energy is where the rest of the world is going so we either be pioneers or followers.

At some point, going to the Moon was a crazy idea that cost the taxpayer some coin. But we didn't because we didn't want the Soviet Union to go there first.

At some point Viagra was an idea that cost the taxpayer in subsidies for R&D - and guess what. Many trials failed before they found the right formula. Now every guy can get a prescription for it.

At some point, green energy will become available to most of us due to economies of scale - and that is what the oil industry is petrified of.

Fiesty

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/06/05/154384654/live-blog-wisconsin-decides-governors-fate-in-recall-vote

Wasn't sure how there could be higher than 100%, but when you have same day registration it makes sense.

Anna, your side has made it a mission to tell everyone how evil and corrupt Romney is. And hes still only 3% behind Obama? Should Obama be up 20-30% if hes so great?

Jealous of what exactly? Jealous I dont have mindless drones who will praise everything I write? No sorry. Ive got plenty of other outless where I get that from. Jealous shes the first poster in over 50% of MSN threads? No thanks. Im not a no life msn Thread Crawling Troll.

@bayllie

So we want to follow the rest of the world? If you haven't noticed lately they are all going bankrupt

Please tell me what's so wrong with immigrants coming into this country

I don't think most Republicans and Independents are opposed to immigration, which implies legally obtained documents and a process towards achieving citizenship.

What obama has done with his executive stroke is a slap in the face to many legal immigrants who did the necessary work to get citizenship... and he has made people who choose not to apply for immigration a 'fast track' to citizenship w/o the work!

And let's stop calling them 'illegal immigrants'. Immigration is a legal process, and those that do are complying with the law. Those who choose not to abide by that process are illegal and therefore criminal! It is those folks I have a problem with..... for Obama they are merely more votes for him... he could care less that he is trampling the US Constitution again for his own needs!

ChasSD - you see, President Obama KEPT up from bankruptcy even though that would have suited the GOP just fine.

You have no common sense!

Obama/Biden 2012

Alan

I do know that if we continue to borrow 8%-10% of our GDP every year we will go bankrupt too.

I have asked Republicans this in the past, and they have always been too afraid to answer. Hopefully you have the balls to man up and give me an answer...

I agree that our spending and borrowing is an issue, so: How will paying for ANOTHER war, with Iran this time, fix our debt and deficit problem?

It's a simple question. Romney has already stated that he wants to go to war with Iran, his top officials have reiterated this position. I don't believe we can afford another war. So... how will paying for a war with Iran help our situation?

I am hoping that you, or any Republican, is brave enough to answer.

@SeekingSanity

So, exactly how is 5 trillion in new debt keeping us from bankruptcy?

Those who claim to believe Mittens Romney will unseat the President would gain more and be better served selling bibles at the entrance of a whorehouse on "sale day".

ChasSD:

The President looks so bad that...

Rombot has to tell Teapublican governors to "downplay" job growth in their states.

Polling shows a majority of American people believe the worst of the economic downturn is behind us.

Energy prices continue to fall, thanks to "Cash for Clunkers" and other incentives increasing fleet mileage.

Housing sales and starts are beginning to increase.

Out of Iraq, leaving Afghanistan.

G.M. alive, Bin Laden dead.

Oh yeah and...

Rombot.Has.Nothing. (It must be true, since he can't articulate a position on anything.)

ChasSD

So, exactly how is 5 trillion in new debt keeping us from bankruptcy?

How will starting... and paying for... ANOTHER war, with Iran this time, help bring down our debt? Can we afford another war?

THAT is what Romney wants to do. So are you brave enough to answer me? No other Republican is.

No, and neither did Gunrunner, did it?

Gunrunner was the name of the project under which both the "Wide Receiver" and "Fast and Furious" operations fell. The big difference was that the Bush administration's operation was done with the cooperation of the Mexican government and the actually tried to follow the guns back to the cartels . "Wide Receiver" was scrapped (ended) when guns unintentionally "walked" because the gunrunners where aware that they were being surveiled by drones and just waited for them (the drones) to run out of gas before escaping the surveillence.

"Fast and Furious" was started under the current administration and was not done in cooperation with the Mexican government. There is evidence that the guns were intentionally allowed to "walk" as ATF agents who were surveilling the guns reported that they were told to stand down when they witnessed the guns being loaded into trucks for transport. Also, there is one instance where one of the supposed targets of the operation was captured on this side of the border with a trunkload of guns and summarily released by DOJ official.

Anna Molly,

The only thing anomalous about you is the uncanny adeptness you seem to have for liberal spin. Do you keep a copy of the day's Media Matters talking points next to your computer?

NYPride --

Anna, your side has made it a mission to tell everyone how evil and corrupt Romney is. And hes still only 3% behind Obama? Should Obama be up 20-30% if hes so great?

Abraham Lincoln (or, alternatively, P.T. Barnum) was right. You CAN fool some of the people all of the time.

Like birtherism, sorta.

Yet another theme in the conservative playbook.

Jealous of what exactly? Jealous I dont have mindless drones who will praise everything I write? No sorry. Ive got plenty of other outless where I get that from. Jealous shes the first poster in over 50% of MSN threads? No thanks. Im not a no life msn Thread Crawling Troll.

Then why are you dwelling on it? Sounds like someone need attention.

Repression hurts.

Bitterhawk --

"Fast and Furious" was started under the current administration and was not done in cooperation with the Mexican government.

Maybe not, but I think the idea was not a new one, was it?

Just remember which Attorney General was in charge when the idea was formed. If you need a reminder, it was M-U-K-A-S-E-Y.

The only thing anomalous about you is the uncanny adeptness you seem to have for liberal spin. Do you keep a copy of the day's Media Matters talking points next to your computer?

No, I'm just that good.

WE INTERRUPT THIS USUALLY POINTLESS DEBATE FOR THIS PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

If you are getting your news from FOX and depending on them for the information you need to make an intelligent decision in this all important election PLEASE STOP NOW!

Listening to FOX News has been shown to kill brain cells and leads to misinformation and confusion for the informed or unsophisticated viewer.

YOU MUST STOP NOW! Before irreparable harm is done to you cognitive processes.

In a recent example (this morning) viewers were subjected to an alleged news report regarding a demonstration held in Washington D.C. voicing opposition to Karl Rove. A video crew recording the demonstration asked various "demonstrators" who Karl Rove is. All the individuals shown in the FOX report were black. None of them claimed to know who Karl Rove was.

They were photographed in such a way that it was difficult to make out their facial feature. Only people of color were interviewed, or at least they were the only ones who were shown in the report.

This is blatantly racist. FOX controls the editing of the tape. Even if someone had correctly identified Karl Rove, they were obviously left "on the cutting room floor". This report intentionally made the protesters look ignorant and foolish.

If you're depending on FOX News for your information, you are sadly misinformed and you need to STOP WATCHING FOX NOW!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled pissing contest.

Obama/Biden 2012

@mguy-478

So you just want to sit on your arse and watch Iran build a nuclear arsenal? The last time that happened was Clinton doing nothing for 8 years and the result from that, 9/11

Feisty

Republicans have already admitted that voter laws are meant to suppress Democratic leaning voters.

William O'Brien (R), New Hampshire House Speaker, stated that college students should not vote because they typically vote democrat, they are "foolish", do not have life experience and vote with their feelings.

He outright admitted that his voter laws are meant to reduce the amount of college students voting, because they don't vote for his team.

THAT is the Republican strategy. Neither party should be allowed to do this.

ChasSD

So we want to follow the rest of the world? If you haven't noticed lately they are all going bankrupt

and please point out where I said we should follow anyone. As a matter of fact, I gave examples of us being first.

Countries are having huge financial issues because they were knocked out by the biggest financial meltdown in our modern history.

Around the world stock markets have fallen, large financial institutions have collapsed or been bought out, and governments in even the wealthiest nations have had to come up with rescue packages to bail out their financial systems.

Guess what, if other countries didn't try to follow our Wall Street this country would have been better off today but with soaring profits, all wanted in. So we created the monster that everyone else tried to imitate.

Yet, the Republicans, and especially Romney want to go back to the ways that created the Global Financial Crisis. He proved it with Bain (that's why he won't talk about it). SHORT-TERM DECISIONS THAT WILL CREATE MAXIMUM WEALTH FOR THE FEW. There is a reason why they are called "short-term."

We need to start investing long-term but that's something the Republicans do not want. They are only interested in the return created TODAY.

ChasSD

So you just want to sit on your arse and watch Iran build a nuclear arsenal? The last time that happened was Clinton doing nothing for 8 years and then 9/11

You DID NOT answer my question. Can we afford another war? Yes or no. Why is this so difficult for you? Are you afraid of the answer? Are you a coward?

CAN WE AFFORD ANOTHER WAR?

Come on, coward. Answer the question.

I'm not even going to go into the fact that both China and Russia (with their 5000 nukes) back Iran. And starting that war will likely lead to WW3. No, let's stick to the spending portion.

You are concerned with the trillions we are in debt, so answer the question.

Answer me, then I will answer your question. Stop sticking your tail between your legs and man-up.

I agree that our spending and borrowing is an issue, so: How will paying for ANOTHER war, with Iran this time, fix our debt and deficit problem?

It won't. It will make the deficit worse unless there are offsets or tax increases. However, the question is will it cost less in the long run to stop Iran from getting the bomb than it will to deal with consequences in the future. I don't have a crystal ball so I can't answer that.

I for one do not want another war. I was against the Iraq war and another consequence of that is that we have no resources to "pressure" Iran which I would have been for or the will to fight another conflict. I hope Iran backs down and don't get the bomb but if they are close Israel will try to stop them and we will get sucked in.

JH-479998

What is wrong with some of you? Fast and Furious never happened????

I guess what's wrong with us is that we can read above the third grade level. Today's First Thoughts article had a link to a Fortune article that pretty much debunks the whole Fast and Furious "operation," which was named after the drag racing that the suspects liked to do in their spare time while they weren't running guns free from threat of arrest because Republican gun "rights" laws made what they were doing legal.

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/

The ATF did not intententionally let criminal go that they could have arrested (although these gun runners SHOULD have been arrested).

Fortune, by the way, is not exactly a "libbie" rag.

ChasSD

So you just want to sit on your arse and watch Iran build a nuclear arsenal? The last time that happened was Clinton doing nothing for 8 years and then 9/11

we were told about WMD by the Bush Administration - and guess what - that was a total fabrication by the Bush Administration.

If you are going to blame anyone for 9/11, blame Bush who was too busy playing lawn boy at his TX ranch for the first 8 months of his presidency to listen to the CIA intel. On top of that, he hired as incapable Condi who, too, decided to ignore the very people that were warning her about the plot. They had all pieces of the puzzle except the date. But hey, clearing brush is much more fun than protecting your country from the terrorists...

@ Houston --

Wasn't there also a movie?

These CIA/FBI/ATF guys all seem to think -- or wish -- they're living in a Tom Clancy novel.

@mguy-478

A war is a minor expense compared to all the money we waste on social programs

Alan

Thank you for having the courage to answer me. You are the first Republican to do so... consider me impressed.

It won't. It will make the deficit worse unless there are offsets or tax increases. However, the question is will it cost less in the long run to stop Iran from getting the bomb than it will to deal with consequences in the future. I don't have a crystal ball so I can't answer that.

So what you are saying is that MORE spending, that may benefit us in the future, is a good thing?

See, this is my issue. The GOP cries about spending cuts over, and over, and over. They say everything needs to be cut. They scream about ANY spending increase.

But when it comes to THEIR program... when it comes to something THEY want to spend money on... suddenly the story shifts. Suddenly it's turns into: "Oh, it might save us money in the long run... maybe, but I am not sure."

They are no longer the party of "spending cuts"... they are the party of "spend on our things, not yours... debt is ok for our programs, not yours"

This hypocrisy is disgusting and makes it blatantly obvious that they DO NOT care about spending cuts or the deficit.

Feisty,

Romney will win PA because the Dems won't be able to cheat anymore. But since libs cheat all the time, I'm not surprised that you guys see incidious motivations behind everything anybody does or says.

@bayllie

Everyone that complains about the few, the 1%, would join it in a second if they could

ChasSD

A war is a minor expense compared to all the money we waste on social programs

You think the last two wars were a "minor expense"? Two of the greatest contributors to our current debt.

You think a war, were China backs the OTHER SIDE, will be a minor expense? What happens when China calls in our debt? What happens when Russia backs Iran with their nukes?

A "minor expense"? Are you on drugs?

If you believe that, then you obviously do not have the intelligence or capacity to understand the consequences of this action.

...but I think the idea was not a new one, was it?

Not wanting to actually track the guns to their destination was a new twist, was it not?

The idea of extending sub-prime loans to people who can't afford them isn't a new one either, why don't we revisit that?

mguy,

It's not hypocrisy but rather realizing that government has a duty in some areas, national defense, but not in other areas. One of the main reasons we have a Federal government is for national defense, and it is the duty of the Federal government to "provide for the national defense." (bonus points if you can tell me where that is from) It would be like a family cutting spending on entertainment but not cutting food money. People need to eat but they don't need to go to a movie every week.

Skip ..........is correct about rt wingers using a poor news source to post on this blog.

So......do search on...Fox News Dumber...and pick your website source, there are numerous sites reporting studies done. Here is one from Alternet.org

Study Confirms That Fox News Makes You Stupid

A new survey of American voters shows that Fox News viewers are significantly more misinformed than consumers of news from other sources.

December 15, 2010 |

Yet another study has been released proving that watching Fox News is detrimental to your intelligence. World Public Opinion, a project managed by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland, conducted a survey of American voters that shows that Fox News viewers are significantly more misinformed than consumers of news from other sources. What’s more, the study shows that greater exposure to Fox News increases misinformation.

So the more you watch, the less you know. Or to be precise, the more you think you know that is actually false. This study corroborates a previous PIPA study that focused on the Iraq war with similar results. And there was an NBC/Wall Street Journal poll that demonstrated the break with reality on the part of Fox viewers with regard to health care. The body of evidence that Fox News is nothing but a propaganda machine dedicated to lies is growing by the day.

In eight of the nine questions below, Fox News placed first in the percentage of those who were misinformed (they placed second in the question on TARP). That’s a pretty high batting average for journalistic fraud. Here is a list of what Fox News viewers believe that just aint so:

• 91 percent believe the stimulus legislation lost jobs
• 72 percent believe the health reform law will increase the deficit
• 72 percent believe the economy is getting worse
• 60 percent believe climate change is not occurring
• 49 percent believe income taxes have gone up
• 63 percent believe the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts
• 56 percent believe Obama initiated the GM/Chrysler bailout
• 38 percent believe that most Republicans opposed TARP
• 63 percent believe Obama was not born in the U.S. (or that it is unclear)

The conclusion is inescapable. Fox News is deliberately misinforming its viewers and it is doing so for a reason. Every issue above is one in which the Republican Party had a vested interest. The GOP benefited from the ignorance that Fox News helped to proliferate. The results were apparent in the election last month as voters based their decisions on demonstrably false information fed to them by Fox News.

Frank "Grimey" Grimes, Springfield, USA

My point was irony and timing.

Frank,

Now you see the truth, that these people are incapable of getting ANY point unless it sings the praises of Obama.

Your point was a simple one, yet because they interpretted (incorrectly I might add) that you were taking a shot at their guy... they attacked you.

Welcome to the world outside of toon-town. They are so full of anger and hatred that they are unable to see anything else.

Sad.

Matthew

You really do not want to go down that route. I could list off hundreds of Republican supported areas of spending that is NOT "defense" related, and the government has no business in... yet you will defend the need to spend in these areas.

Furthermore, STARTING a war is not defense... that is offense. Tell me where it says that the government has a role to "provide for the national offense."

If it is truly a defensive maneuver, then I can support it. But additional spending that we can not afford, based off another WMD claim... which will also put as at odds with China and Russia... is not a viable solution. Starting WW3 will not bode well for our country.

Houston!,

I haven't read the story in Forbes yet about F&F but if their main source is "five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious", I see no reason to believe the story. What else would you expect from people directly involved in it but to deny that they did anything untoward? If you'll recall, when a tobacco whistleblower went public saying the tobacco companies knew, and hid, how dangerous cigarettes were, the tobacco executives all denied it. They even had studies showing how harmless smoking was and everything. But we found that those involved were all liars. And if F&F is nothing, why doesn't Holder release all the documents Issa is requesting, and why has BO claimed executive privilege over these documents? Like I said, I haven't read the Forbes story yet but the little blurb in the above article makes me question how good of an article it is.

@starsailing

Of course the lapdog, re-elect Obama, hallelujah chorus media would never misinform the public, right?

Bitterhawk --

The idea of extending sub-prime loans to people who can't afford them isn't a new one either, why don't we revisit that?

Got no problem with that, at least in theory. Just so we stop blaming the ignorant homeowners who took the money that was offered to buy the homes that George W. Bush encouraged them to buy, and start putting the blame on the lenders, who should have known better than to give those people money in the first place.

Unless .... you're just thinking it's time to put a damper on the housing revival, which I just heard about yesterday.

A housing revival -- or indeed, any economic good news -- won't play so well for conservatives in November, will it?

ChasSD --

A war is a minor expense compared to all the money we waste on social programs

Boy, oh boy. Let's just ignore the trillions that we spent on the last two wars, including the interest on all that off-the-books debt, and the additional trillions we spend year after year on what appears to be largely worthless defense.

And then let's tell that to the families of those thousands soldiers whose lives and productive futures you have just categorized on your spreadsheet as "a minor expense."

If you only had a heart.

Of course the lapdog, re-elect Obama, hallelujah chorus media would never misinform the public, right?

Nope. And Fox News, neither.

@Anna Molly

George W. supported loans to deadbeats that couldn't afford them? Have you ever heard of the democratically controlled congress and Dodd-Frank?

And, I guess 9/11 was a worthless defense

So what you are saying is that MORE spending, that may benefit us in the future, is a good thing?

If pushed into there may be no alternative. Also, if done correctly as Bush I did, it may not cost anything. Similar to the first Gulf War you can be sure Saudi Arabia has a high interest in Iran not getting the bomb, along with the other Gulf States. The first Gulf War cost us nothing as they paid. Unlike the mess that Bush II made of Iraq, I am sure we would have a "richer" coalition to stop Iran getting the bomb.

Also, what ChasSD says is correct. War compared to social programs is cheaper. War eventually ends (even Iraq is finally winding down), whereas Medicare D will never go away. The estimates for just Medicare D are 1T over the next 10 years. This is slightly more than the estimated cost of Iraq 700B - 1T, with an additional 700B in veterans costs.

BTW I am not a Republican. I think Bush spent like a drunken sailor and Obama is spending even more. I just see us flying over a cliff with the Federal Government (and some large states totally out of control. One reason I don't like the grand bargain or tax increases is because tax increases will happen but spending is never cut. Look at what is happening right now on the sequestration. John McCain is fighting desperately to avoid the defense cuts. This morning Jim Clayburn said that there was plenty of time to avoid the cuts (he probably didn't mean defense but who knows). So you have left and right looking for a way to avoid cuts. I don't particularly like Simpson-Bowles but its the only game in town that has a chance to end the fiscal insanity.

...Just so we stop blaming the ignorant homeowners who took the money that was offered to buy the homes that George W. Bush encouraged them to buy...

Yes, let's just ignore the whole Community Reinvestment Act thingy or the homes that Carter, Clinton, Dodd and Frank encouraged them to buy and just blame Bush for everything. C'mon Anna, you can do better than this...

Feisty - It is interesting that rather than answer the question you instead use an ad hominem attack. Typical for your ilk. I've already provided you the information on the voter fraud in Colorado and I'm sure that we weren't alone.

Mguy the hypocrisy is what bothers me too, you put it perfectly.

Alan, I agree with politicians and their approach to spending. I also agree I do not like Simpson Bowles all that much either, but still it is better than the mess we have now.

Your point about cuts is true, but it proves my problem with Republicans, they all knew about the cuts, they don't reach an agreement and now here they are trying to sly out of the consequences. To top that off, they come up with a solution where they double down on the social cuts and get to keep all their spending. Essentialy asking the Democrats to take double the cuts while they lose nothing.

Of course the Democrats refuse such a situation and then the Republicans call the administartion divisive. What is worse a large portion of the electorate believes them. I do not see how the Democrats can "win" that situation. There is no compromise being offered.. Why do you think Simpson Bowles is not being picked up? Its a compromise

Houston!

Following this thread is proof positive that there aren't any 'deep divers' on intellectual pondering of a 'known' program like Fast and Furious. Fox has them so amped up on fear and hate that they refuse to even scratch the surface of the Fortune article.

and then to watch them spin and twist and contort to 'prove' you wrong is hilarious. With that said,...I'd hat to be running the ATF office where Dodson was reassigned, eh? Sounds like a 'real' piece of work.

Personally, I would argue that First Read effectively buried the story by just blurbing it here instead of giving it it's own article. HuffPo put it on the Cover Story and it has over 3,000 comments. Guess that's called a 'scoop'? lol

Thanks for always being there!

and kudos to the poster reminding us that Romney committed ACTUAL VOTER FRAUD,...rather than the drama of dredging up how Voter Registration Rolls are somehow misstated. I know I've always sent a change of address to the Election Board when I've moved (NOT!). More confusion on FACTS and how to make people FEAR them than any substance on REAL issues. Yep, that's the GNOP I've come to 'love'.

Bitterhawk, she didn't blame Bush, she blamed the people who sold the loans... you know the people who took the money before selling the loans they knew were bad to the financial institutions, she is also blaming the financial institutions who bought the bad loans took the worst of them bundled them together and sold them to investors even after they knew they were bad.

You know those guys? I don't think that was Bush but why don't you go blame a Democrat. I'm sure it helps you sleep through your nightmares of the Marxist Obama coming every night to take your savings in your mattress.

Do not forget how tax payers bailed out those financial institutions after they took bad bets as well. Yeah, you are probably right they should not be held accountable at all.

@Akeem, New Jersey

"Marxist Obama coming every night to take your savings in your mattress."

Could not have said it better myself

ChasSD - you see, President Obama KEPT up from bankruptcy even though that would have suited the GOP just fine.

seeking (in)sanity, you frequently post outlandish and unsubstantiated posts! Where is your supporting evidence? Where is the evidence? Give us something to convince us that Obama is nothing more but a bag of lies and broken promises... who is only succeeding in flushing this once great country down the toilet! You can't do it.. can you? Hello...... Hello.... nobody's there.........

Alan

If there is no alternative... then I can agree. But that is a very big IF. And right now, Romney is looking more like a warmonger that just has a thirst for blood, instead of someone with no other alternative.

And just because wars eventually end, does not mean they are minor expenses. 1 trillion is a very large portion of our debt, and the loss of life would not be considered minor... well, I suppose Republicans see that as minor (unless it is a fetus, of course).

One reason I don't like the grand bargain or tax increases is because tax increases will happen but spending is never cut

I am not a fan of tax increases, as most wealthy individuals pay very little in taxes... if anything at all. Every 7-figure individual I know pays close to nothing, thanks to write-offs, loop-holes and shelters. So a tax increase will not necessarily bring in more revenue, as the wealthy will just continue to get around it. I am a bigger fan of removing ALL write-offs and loopholes, and maintaining or reducing the current rate.

Honestly, I don't believe either party will cut spending. Romney has only talked about areas he will INCREASE spending (another war, border wall and patrol) while making incredibly vague claims about cutting something. And I guarantee that if he gets elected, Republicans will no longer care about the debt or deficit... because their team won. Magically, debt and deficit will no longer matter, and the spending will continue. You can put money on that.

@mguy-478

You would probably be amazed at how much wealthy people pay in taxes compared to the average citizen

@ChasD

You would be amazed how much of their income wealthy people still have after paying for basic living expenses.

And what they can't spend BELIEVE IT OR NOT, they invest to make even more for next year... Its unbearable I would much rather live off 50k than do that.

Spin it any way you want! BOZO loses in a landslide defeat! OH...all of you mexican cartel members, dont worry! BOZO and HIS party will have you under the catagory of undocumented pharmacist before you know it. What a party of losers you libs are. You stood behind the rapist in office and now you stand behind the tax cheat rangel (how ever you spell the crooks name). Like I said, what a party of PATHETIC losers! Anyone getting married or having a birthday that wants to give it ALL up for YOUR "president? HAHAHAHAHA!!!

@Akeem, New Jersey

Since when did it become evil for someone to be successful? Obama and his consistent class warfare has certainly escalated this thought process

clara...if fast & furious is no big deal then why is YOUR BOZO prez. trying to hide something HE said he knew nothing about? You libs are such pieces of "work".

ChasSD

Save your pathetic, Fox News talking points. I live in one of the wealthiest areas in the entire country. I doubt you could afford a single, one bedroom apartment around my area. (Hint: there are reality shows based on the wealthy lives of people in my neighborhood)

I guarantee you that very, VERY few pay their actual tax rate. Most pay below the rate, and I personally know someone who has an "emergency plan" if he is ever audited... he has paid a zero tax rate over the last 7 years, and takes home 7-figures.

So save your baseless claims... I live in that world, little boy. And I fully admit that tax increases will have no impact on the wealthy, as long as write-offs and loop-holes exist. (That means I support the Republican position that a tax increase will not work)

ChasD

Its not my job to explain it to you because you won't get it or will refuse to. Stop living in a world of extremes. A 1-5% tax increase in the highest brackets does not punish success. Rich people don't stop being rich.

All that happens is the richest people, someone earning lets say 20 million in a year sees he is losing 1 million dollars to increase taxes. He then donates 500k to someone to make YOU care about it and stop it from happening. He just saved himself 500k.

I've already provided you the information on the voter fraud in Colorado and I'm sure that we weren't alone.

Oh my god .. run for the hills and hide - Colorado uncovered 6 cases of voter fraud. Now mind you, 5 of the 6 were ballots cast via mail, so voter ID laws would not have caught those. In fact, voter ID laws weren't even used to catch any of the 6 fraudulent voters.

Note for all, none of the 6 voters were felons or illegal immigrants. They were all land owners in the states of Colorado and Kansas and voted in both states. So much for that fairy tale of wide-spread voter fraud running rampant through the Colorado voting system by felons and illegal aliens that might be solved by showing ID at the ballot box.

It would be interesting to find out how many millions were spent to uncover these 6 fraudulent votes. Not to worry, at 6M, that is 1M per vote, a deal when compared to uncovering Clinton's 70M BJ.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/thespot/2012/01/23/gessler-cites-voter-fraud-in-2010-election/55272/

Clara KCMO:

Personally, I would argue that First Read effectively buried the story by just blurbing it here instead of giving it it's own article. HuffPo put it on the Cover Story and it has over 3,000 comments. Guess that's called a 'scoop'? lol

Yeah, it looks like "liberal" MSNBC is too afraid of being accused of bias to give this story the coverage it clearly deserves. But CNN, which I bash all the time for the same reason, deserves credit for putting the Fortune story on their own web site and giving it a prominent link on their home page:

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/?hpt=hp_t2

But Fast and Furious IS a scandal. It's a scandal how much death and devastation how the Republicans gun "rights" laws that prevent law enforcement from arresting criminals. And it's a scandal that Eric Holder is being crucified for the sins of the Republican Party. The blood of the murdered border agent is on THEIR hands, not Holder's.

And it's a scandal that Eric Holder is being crucified for the sins of the Republican Party. The blood of the murdered border agent is on THEIR hands, not Holder's.

Sounds like Grand Theft Auto Issa has to do some 'splainin. Maybe he can start with his own conviction of illegal possession of fire arms and then work his way up/down/around the whole issue.

Bitterhawk

Gunrunner was the name of the project under which both the "Wide Receiver" and "Fast and Furious" operations fell. The big difference was that the Bush administration's operation was done with the cooperation of the Mexican government and the actually tried to follow the guns back to the cartels .

No, the big difference is that "Wide Receiver" did intentionally let guns walk, while Fast and Furious was FORCED to let them walk because they had no authority to arrest the gun runners thanks to the laws passed by Republican gun worshipers. But you'd have to read the Fortune article to know that, and you apparently won't read it because it has too many inconvenient facts.

Houston...Just how do you get all that BS out of your mouth without throwing up? THAT is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard!! Are you that dumb or that big of a lier? Just wondering!

RE;

VirginiaDemocrat78

pjam,

All pollsters poll more Democrats than Republicans, including conservative pollsters Rasmussen and Fox News. Why is that? The answer should be obvious; There are more Democrats than Republicans. Go look at the demographics from any poll from any conservative pollster, you will see the exact same thing.

Friday, June 01, 2012

The number of Democrats and Republicans in the United States increased slightly in May, with voters in President Obama’s party now at their highest level this year. During May, 35.7% of Americans considered themselves Republicans. That’s up from 35.1% in April, the lowest level measured since November of last year.

Rasmussen Reports tracks this information based on telephone interviews with approximately 15,000 adults per month since November 2002. The margin of error for the full sample is less than one percentage point, with a 95% level of confidence.

You are wrong; admit it

ChasSD: Could not have said it better myself

Because misquoting and misrepresenting and taking words out of context is a republican way of life.

dadoftim...its not that they are wrong! They lie about their "facts"! They dont have a choice, its all they have!

The headline missing from above post;

Partisan Trends: Republicans 35.7%, Democrats 33.8%, Unaffiliateds 30.5%

Truetexan, you are right confronting liberals with the facts never fazes them, they just go back to the mantra drone.

truetexan

Houston...Just how do you get all that BS out of your mouth without throwing up? THAT is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard!! Are you that dumb or that big of a lier? Just wondering!

You wingnuts sure get ugly when your myths and lies get exposed, don't you? I'll bet you'll never read the Fortune article because it's got too many facts in it, and everyone knows, facts have a liberal bias.

ChasSD

George W. supported loans to deadbeats that couldn't afford them? Have you ever heard of the democratically controlled congress and Dodd-Frank?

Better question -- Where do the ignorant and uninformed conservatives on this site come from, anyway?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNqQx7sjoS8

Ever hear of the American Dream Down Payment Fund? Single Family Affordable House Tax Credit? Streamlining the process to make it simpler?

All Bush initiatives.

"When I lay out a goal, I mean it."

"It's in [the self interest of the real estate industry] that we encourage people to buy homes."

"Important that we achieve a goal of 5.5 million new minority homeowners."

"Increase commitment to minority markets by $440 billion."

"Consumers with poor credit will be able to get an interest rate that automatically goes down with a series of consistent payments."

It's all in the video.

By the way. Got some news for you. The Congress was controlled by Republicans from 2001 through 2006. And Republicans, who were in the majority at the time, joined WITH democrats to kill Chuck Hagel's oversight bill after lobbying by Newt Gingrich, among other conservatives.

That's the kind of stuff you guys stand for. Live with it.

Houston!

I did read the Fortune article and dismissed it as BS as soon as I saw it was trying to paint the corrupt ATF supervisor David Voth in such a positive light. If you are really interested in the truth you should review the testimony given to Congress regarding these issues. You'll find that the gun dealers that are villified in the Fortune article were in constant contact with Voth and expressed concerns that the guns being sold to the "straw purchasers" with their fake IDs would eventually make it into Mexico. Voth assured them that this would not be the case. Currently there are still 1400 guns sold through the "Fast and Furious" program that are unaccounted for.

Here is a statement made by Becca Watkins, House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform spokeswoman:

Fortune’s story is a fantasy made up almost entirely from the accounts of individuals involved in the reckless tactics that took place in Operation Fast and Furious. It contains factual errors – including the false statement that Chairman Issa has called for Attorney General Holder’s resignation – and multiple distortions. It also hides critical information from readers – including a report in the Wall Street Journal – indicating that its primary sources may be facing criminal charges. Congressional staff gave Fortune Magazine numerous examples of false statements made by the story’s primary source and the magazine did not dispute this information. It did not, however, explain this material to its readers. The one point of agreement the Committee has with this story is its emphasis on the role Justice Department prosecutors, not just ATF agents, played in guns being transferred to drug cartels in Mexico. The allegations made in the story have been examined and rejected by congressional Republicans, Democrats, and the Justice Department.”

So again, Wide Receiver did not intentionally allow the guns to "walk" while "Fast and Furious". Hope that fact isn't to "inconvenient" for you.

So again, Wide Receiver did not intentionally allow the guns to "walk" while "Fast and Furious". Hope that fact isn't to "inconvenient" for you.

I swear I edited this to read:

So again, Wide Receiver did not intentionally allow the guns to "walk" while "Fast and Furious" did. Hope that fact isn't too "inconvenient" for you.

Anna:

Again with the blame Bush strategy. Isn't that getting a little old? You completely ignore the Democrats role in the housing crisis as if it doesn't even exist.

FYI- The housing meltdown was in the making for the better part of thirty years through both Republican and Democratic administrations and Congresses.

Akeem:

She did blame Bush and continues to do so. As for you placing the blame solely on the banks, you are wrong also. While the banks certainly played a big role in the meltdown, they wouldn't have been able to do so without the help of politicians from both sides of the aisle and their policies and legislation that paved the way. Banks were not only encouraged to extend loans to people who couldn't afford them, but the government made these loans profitable with guarantees through Freddie and Fannie. This is when banks began bundling the mortgages into tradable securities known as derivatives. These guarantees also led insurance companies like AIG to believe that insuring the newly created derivatives to be a good risk. As you can see the housing crisis was more complicated than people think and there is plenty of blame to go around.

Biker Chick - You have certainly raised you head as one of the wacko spokesmen for the right lately, haven't you? Unfortunate that most of the "facts" you spout aren't true or are incomplete. Please note I said "spokesmen" - you are trans-gender, aren't you? Damage and a few others on here are in love with you - whoops, how embarrassing.

Indeed, a six-month Fortune investigation reveals that the public case alleging that Voth and his colleagues walked guns is replete with distortions, errors, partial truths, and even some outright lies.

This should be front page news, but it will be buried inside, just like Sarah Palin's "Obamacare contains death panels" lie, and the Tea Party's "Obama is a Muslim" smear, trumps the truth, because our msm is just too damn lazy to report FACTS.

Issa ....creates diversion for Romney who does not have any plan of his own. Romney does support the Ryan plan which destroys Soc security and medicare while giving Romney over $700,000 tax break.

So...Issa admits on Fox news...there is no evidence of lying...or coverup By anyone yet..." Yet all the rt wingers on the blog say there is.....?

Let's see what is known....

So repubs don't know, what they don't know. And..they admit they don't know , what they don't know, that they don't know. How can they don't know, what they don't know about what they don't know? We do know that they don't know, what they don't know. But they don't care that we all know, that they don't know, that they don't know. If repubs did know, what they don't know, about what they don't know, we would know what they don't know about what they don't know about.

The investigation has been going on for 18 months moron. Now it's to take the focus away from Romney?

Did your parents have any children that lived?

mhrjhn - that was supposed to be humorous, in your small mind? Ah ha - low information voter alert! But, that's all the GOP has - petty small minded and low intelligence supporters.

Obama/Biden 2012

Let's try the logic ...one....more...time for you mhr.....No....evidence.....per Issa....! 1 minute, or 1 hr, 1 day.....18 months......no evidence.....

So...Issa admits on Fox news...there is no evidence of lying...or coverup By anyone yet..." Yet all the rt wingers on the blog say there is.....?

Let's see what is known....

So repubs don't know, what they don't know. And..they admit they don't know , what they don't know, that they don't know. How can they don't know, what they don't know about what they don't know? We do know that they don't know, what they don't know. But they don't care that we all know, that they don't know, that they don't know. If repubs did know, what they don't know, about what they don't know, we would know what they don't know about what they don't know about.

Burma Shave

only 43% correctly identified Obama’s [religion] (versus 8% who ID’ed him as a Muslim

and that 8% watches Fox News only

I'd put my education credentials up against yours any day 'Sanity'.

@bayllie

Everyone that complains about the few, the 1%, would join it in a second if they could

Amy B.

This should be front page news, but it will be buried inside, just like Sarah Palin's "Obamacare contains death panels" lie, and the Tea Party's "Obama is a Muslim" smear, trumps the truth, because our msm is just too damn lazy to report FACTS.

I think the MSM isn't exactly lazy, they're just reluctant to drop a juicy scandal that LEADS ALL THE WAY TO THE WHITE HOUSE!!!!! WHAT DID OBAMA KNOW AND WHEN DID HE KNOW IT?????!!!!

The media doesn't really care that there's no there there. They've got something to talk about instead of boring stuff like Mitt Romney's expertise in "off-shoring" American jobs.

ChasSD

@bayllie

Everyone that complains about the few, the 1%, would join it in a second if they could

you are so wrong. It's not about being rich. It's about how to become it and maintain it, and when rich is rich enough - there is a huge difference.

For you to have more - some HAS to have less. So what are you willing to do about having more. Lay people off? Force them to lose their homes and life savings? Take away foodstamps from kids (which about 47% of foodstamp recipients are kids), deny coverege to the sick?

How about keeping your cash in Swiss banks instead of US banks so that US banks can lend to homeowners and small businesses?

How about ballooning debt to the point of collapse to make a quick profit? Kinda like maxing out a credit card in someone else's name but you keeping the cash.

How about defrauding Medicare?

How about creating fake companies like Enron did so that you look great on paper and your stock prices go through the roof just to find out that it was a house of cards?

I can keep going on but I hope you get the point. It's not about being rich. It's about being rich - it's about what these people do to become rich, and to stay rich.

There are plenty of rich people that vote Obama even if they know their taxes might be raised. Why? Because they appreciate the opportunity they have and they know they need to give back.

PS. Houston!

Did you see the headline last night?

(sic, Romney)...Stuck between an Offshored Rock and an Outsourced Hard Place...

Still LMAO! yes, he is!

To quote this article:

"And with the House’s contempt vote against U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder set for tomorrow (same day as the SCOTUS decision on health care), an investigation by Fortune magazine reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed the “Fast and Furious” guns to fall in the hands of a Mexican cartel, and it questions the credibility of the original whistleblower. “Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn. Indeed, a six-month Fortune investigation reveals that the public case alleging that Voth and his colleagues walked guns is replete with distortions, errors, partial truths, and even some outright lies.”

It appears as if the Republicans have seriously manipulated the facts once again; but this time with regards to Eric Holder and the "Fast and Furious" program that began under BUSH. Do the Republicans ever tell the whole truth, and nothing but the truth anymore?? Do they ever seriously get down to work on the more critical issues anymore (i.e. the budget, create new jobs, etc., etc.)???? Most definitely not!!! The Republicans sole purpose for being in Congress is to serve themselves by making the President and the Democrat Party look as bad as possible, out of embarrassment after the last complete dismal failure under the administration of Bush & Dick's eight years of Gestapo like behavior. What did they accomplish (other than to pardon their own war crimes)? They started an illegal war with Iraq while at war with Afghanistan, and started the "Great Recession" with a loss of jobs for the middle class, poor, elderly, and disabled. They have wasted our time and taxpayers' money!!!

The real Republican base, conservatives and Christians won't vote for RINO Romney! Romney the plastic man with strings to pull is a FAKE, FLIP FLOPPING, ELITIST, ESTABLISHMENT, PHONEY that LIES and stands for nothing!

mhrjhn - you have NO credentials to put up!

jazzy...we would vote for a dead dog before we would bozo and ditzy!

Was funny to see Obama start stammering after he made that joke that upset the RedSox Nation. They take baseball very seriously in Boston!

Well Noid, it certainly seems to be an issue with you.

Lighten up, dude.

Must be a slow news week for this to be a news story. I'm reminded of the Jimmy Fallon movie, where he played a die-hard Red Sox fan. Boston was furious because he's a huge Yankees fan in real life.

Isn't this forum about the fact that Fast and Furious was not about the ATF giving guns to Mexican drug cartels? And that Issa has wasted over a year and millions of taxpayer dollars on this nonsense?

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/

WCA,

I'm offended because the guys who say they want to talk about ECONOMY-ECONOMY-ECONOMY very specifically went after this. I mean, should we or should we not be discussing the big things in this race?

Its a time honored tradition in politics, Noid. When your opponent steps in something, it is expected to point out the tracks he or she leaves.

In fact, Obama's idiotic statement showcases his complete detachment from reality.

Guess you did not hear the latest- Obama congratulated Miami on the victory of the "Miami Heats". As in, plural. That's kind of right up there with Navy Corpsemen.

And the Intercontinental Railroad.

I suppose if it were Romney, you'd be ignoring it, right? Just a slip of the tongue, correct? Not gross insensitivity, to say nothing of stupidity?

Right.

Was funny to see Obama start stammering after he made that joke that upset the RedSox Nation. They take baseball very seriously in Boston!

What the F are you talking about. The President was cool in what and the way he said it, and the crowd loved him. God you people live in the crazy land bubble!

I could say that we have once again been shown how Hussein doesn't understand regular Americans by making that taunt of Red Sox fans. But I won't. Or did I just do it?

Maybe in September he can campaign in Pittsburgh wearing a Ravens jersey. You know, just cuz he's funny like that.

In the poll, 49% say what they have seen, read, and heard about the country’s economy has made them less pessimistic, versus 43% who are more optimistic. (However, in May, it was 53% less pessimistic/42% more optimistic.)

I don't understand this paragraph.

It's badly written. It should read MORE pessimistic.

The truth and the Team Obama writers are at odds again.

no joe, no bo, nj

You're all blow. Were you there?

President Obama was not Boo'd in Boston.

Folks, I was at the event last night when the President was supposedly booo'd.
The crowd was yelling Yooooooooouk! On the video, you'll notice a second wave of Yooooouk! After the President mistakenly thinks we were saying Boooo!
The second wave of Yoooooouk! Was an attempt to tell him we were not booing, but we were Yoooooooouking (I just made a new verb!).

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/26/1103373/-President-Obama-was-not-Boo-d-in-Boston

===========================================

Hey All blow JO when you blow your hot air, remember our President was honest enough to admit he made a mistake; unlike Mittens

Obama/Biden 2012

Vote for Obama get a welfare check.

Vote for Romney get a paycheck. :-)

Wow..."no joe", WCA, "sirie"...all of you guys apparently need to keep your eye on the ball.

If NBC can keep finding people who still admit to being Democrats they might be able to keep increasing the percentage of Dems in their "polls" enough to make the results appear close right up until their massive election day loss:

Strong Democrat ........................... 21
Not very strong Democrat ............. 11
Independent/lean Democrat .......... 10
Strictly Independent ....................... 14
Independent/lean Republican ........ 14
Not very strong Republican ........... 11
Strong Republican ......................... 13
Other (VOL) ................................... 4
Not sure ....................................... 2

From page 27 of the so-called "poll".

pjam,

I'll say it again;

All pollsters poll more Democrats than Republicans, including conservative pollsters Rasmussen and Fox News. Why is that? The answer should be obvious; There are more Democrats than Republicans. Go look at the demographics from any poll from any conservative pollster, you will see the exact same thing.

You seem to be under the impression that the pollsters have lists of Democrats, lists of Republicans and lists of independents. Let me assure you that is not the case. They call random people all over the country, then at the end of the poll they as with which party they identify. As there are more registered Democrats in the US than Republicans, the polls will typically show this.

Seriously man, think things through before you say stupid things.

Harley Chic....Yeah vote for Romney and gat a paycheck....In India or China.

Romney lost to McCain, who lost to President Obama....Obama/Biden 2012

Anybody else notice how Harley Chic just posts something he/she thinks is profound and interesting - yet it is always the same political talking points that have no elevance to the thread or the article.

Harley, do you just "cut and paste" your dribble at random? How about something factual and relevant - as a start you could try to accomplish one or the other!

Vote for Romney get a paycheck. :-) if you live in China or India.

Harley Chick - fixed that one for ya. Please try to keep up.

Poor star, so misinformed. GM has over 160,000 workers that work OUT of the US. GE has thousands outsourced....etc etc.

AND....the Obama campaign uses company with operations in India and China to book travel!

What a great American he is.

Here is my politically neutral statement to Harley Chic. "Whoa! You are strikingly beautiful!"

Mr Wonderful - Are you sure she isn't a he?

A spin of a mythical mandate. Now that's rich. The best joke of the day. You do realize that the DOJ argued before the SCOTUS and used the word mandate that it was a "critical" part of the law and is needed because it "works in tandem" with other portions of the law.

So if you know so much about human nature, why didn't the administration know that?

You are just preparing for the worst as well you should.

So, we can say any adult who doesn't want health care is not only a fool, but is pretty darn stupid.

Typical of the GNOP - they were for Healthcare Reform - but as long as it was from Pres. Obama - they are against it....

Romney doesn't have a spine in his body other than a yellow streak down his back - What is his vision? other than "I have been running for 7 years and I deserve it" or "It's my turn"?

I remember from all the contentious times (VietNam, Bosnia, 9/11) - it was always my President - right or wrong...now the GNOP has denigrated to My way or No Way......

C'mon America wake up - neither party is right or wrong - but where is the spirit of compromise - IMHO the GNOP has struck that word right out of Websters.

I don't know. Is that what Jody meant when she said most Americans don't want to be told what to do? It surely wasn't my inference.

Everyone is very afraid that Obama will win. Afraid for their jobs, afraid for their houses, afraid for their children. Obama has no chance. Fear is the greatest motivator and Obama has created a nation of it.

Fear is the greatest motivator and Obama has created a nation of it

Honey!

After reading your comments this morning... the only ONE living in fear is YOU!

Make sure to check under your bed tonight!

Correction, fear that that Romney will win. A man without a spine!

Jody,

Thank you for your post about the various wasys the SC can rule tomorrow.

I saw last night on "Last Word" a great explanation of the mandate, which in effect is a requirement but any fines levied cannot be a lein or a crime under the same law. It is "mythical" no enforcement of collecting the fines. So all you dead beats can stop your whining.

In MN there are nearly 500,000 people who are with out heathcare insurance. In spite of having our own MN Care for low income families. We have 84,000 people who will be affected if the Medical part of the law is struck down.

So how many uninsured are there in you state today?

How many people from your state would lose their share of federal dollars for their state to provide Medicaid coverage for the disabled, seniors, and single adults?

Obama has never been an executive of anything. He had NO experience when he ran for President. None. Nada. Zero. He has 1/2 term as Senator and before that he only got elected by David Axelrod making public the divorce records of his oponents....David Axelrod is going to have to do better than that with Romney, who has a clean past and never a divorce.....Obama was nothing but an agitator before he became Senator, and he didn't become Senator because of his experience. He only got to where he is by others clearing the way for him....and the stupid people buying into a marketing scheme last time around.

Who needs chemo to make one throw up? Just reading some of these ridiculous posts makes me queasy! I, for one, am really worried about tomorrow's ruling. What will happen to my current health coverage? What about next year? Will I even have a fighting chance to be here next year depending on how SCOTUS rules? So sorry kiddies, but to me all politics is local (meaning it is all about me) I could give a rat's patootie about everything else.

Big HUGS to all And A Big Wave to my special friends

How can one claim to like what is in ACA yet claim not to favor it and want it overturned?

Easy. They want all the goodies but they don't want to pay for them.

Its the same as when you ask if taxes on the rich should be raised. A majority answer yes because they will not be paying them.

Thanks, friends.

Ben, did you ever read the section with the mandate? An Appellate Judge did and concluded exactly as I posted. It was REPUBLICANS who put it in the bill, it was democrats who watered it down to be what it is. It is a magical, mythical mandate. The DOJ argued it as an "incentive" for everyone to purchase health insurance. BTW, I posted that the mandate was toothless not longer after the uproar over it began. Anyone with normal brain cells knows that Americans, and humans, by nature do NOT like to be told what to do. Any parent with a toddler through the teenage years knows that.

As for Harley Chic, she's been inhaling too many of those toxic fumes.

As for Harley Chic, she's been inhaling too many of those toxic fumes

She sure has the talking points perfected - sourcing her accusations...eh... not so much!

I'm sure she was first in line @ Home Depot when the Bush admin told us to buy plastic wrap & duct tape to protect ourselves from the WMD's! lol

Alan,

How many uninsured in NJ?

How many people would lose their Medicaid if the SC rules against that provision?

"Obama has never been an executive of anything."

Since 1928, we've had tow business executives in the White House -- Hubert Hoover and George W. Bush. What kind of shape was the economy in when those two left office???

It was REPUBLICANS who put it in the bill, it was democrats who watered it down to be what it is.

Please tell me what Republican put anything in this bill? The mandate may have been a Republican idea originally but they are not responsible for it being in this bill. It makes no sense. Not a single Republican voted for this bill so why would Democrats put it in the bill unless it was to compromise with their own party. The twisted logic used to claim that Republicans are somehow responsible for a mandate that they didn't vote for is hilarious. It's like claiming the Democrats were responsible for the Iraq war.

Maybe I should move to Massachusetts and use Romney-care?

phine, if SCOTUS overturns the entire law, people like you and those of us will friends like you will left to deal with the consequences. That makes me sad for many reasons.

How many uninsured in NJ?

How many people would lose their Medicaid if the SC rules against that provision?

Don't know. Don't know. Still doesn't mean I support a bill that I think is unconstitutional and was badly constructed as it simply added more people to an already broken system.

And I don't buy the argument it can be amended later. Once you have recipients, changing anything that affects their benefits becomes politically untenable.

Guess I should stop by the funeral home and prepay for that "service" I shall be needing. THANK YOU SCOTUS and GOP. Which of you on the right want to explain why Grandma isn't here and Grandpa is sad and poor because we were not wealthy enough to pay for health care?

Alan, Charles Grassley put the mandate in ACA, plus there are about 100 GOP added amendments to ACA. You'd know that if you bothered to pay attention instead of just spouting talking points.

No one said "free" health care, no one said "free" insurance for all. ACA provides assistance to those who cannot afford care, just as legislation creating medicaid passed by a bipartisan Congress did. America used to be a compassionate country which believed that those of us who had much should support and help those who had little. Those of us lucky enough to have employer funded or partially funded, employer retiree health care subsidies are fortunate indeed. We have nearly half the population living barely above, at or below the poverty level yet conservatives like you treat them as disposable and less than human, treat them with contempt and disrespect. Many of these people work two and three jobs just to keep their heads above water, just to feed their families. Why is this? Well, go back to Ronald Reagan and trickle-down, look to the greed of huge corporate profits yet corporations do not give their workers raises, they claim the market is too unstable. Greed and look to those like Mitt Romney who loves his country so much he stashes millions in the Cayman Island and Swiss bank accounts to avoid paying his fair share of taxes to the country yet claims he wants to be President of that country.

Unemployment at start of Romney Mass Admin - - 8%

Unemployment when he left - - 4.7%

Deficit when he arrived - $3 billion

Surplus when he left -- $2 billion

Competency Matters

Romney 2012

Romney says...corporations are people.......Birthers should be all over this one....Protect the country from Citizens United allowing Foreigners to buy an American republican politician. ...Republicans allowing Foreigners to buy the republican candidate of their choice. Meanwhile, real Americans were dying and getting wounded In Iraq fake WMD war. Did a corporation get blown up by IED? Did a corporation get wounded, or serve 3 terms in Iraq? Did a corporation come home in a coffin?

Don't forget ever what Bush/Cheney/ reepubs did to economy and to our soldiers. Romney wants to do it all over again.

Corporations are NOT PEOPLE! Vote President Obama/Biden 2012

Alan, Charles Grassley put the mandate in ACA, plus there are about 100 GOP added amendments to ACA. You'd know that if you bothered to pay attention instead of just spouting talking points.

So the GOP put 100 amendments into a bill they did not vote for? Why were they left in Jody? If no Republican voted for the final bill why were these amendments not removed if they were so onerous to the Democrats? Didn't the President himself state that "no one should be forced to pay for health insurance"? If the President himself was against it how did remain in a bill that garnered no votes from the people you say inserted it into the bill?

Your logic makes no sense but it does follow the pattern of the Administration to blame anybody else and never take responsibility for its own actions.

This bill was passed with no Republican votes but somehow in your mind they are still responsible for what is in it.

Alan,

I did a little research for you, but you have to read the article.

http://www.courierpostonline.com/article/20120625/NEWS01/306250016/Health

NJ has 1.3 million people who are uninsured.

@ Jody,

Thanks for answering Alan's question too.

ROMNEY THE DRAFT DODGER! He went to France and fought the war from the French Riviera. Joined the missionaries and just awhile ago,when asked about it, he said he wished he could have been a part of it. Why didn't he quit the missionary and join the Army? Why did he take numerous deferments ? Why? Because Romney was a DRAFT DODGER LIKE Cheney!

alan,

"So the GOP put 100 amendments into a bill they did not vote for?"

You need to ask Grassley and the rest of the GOP.

The only reason I can think of is that they are indeed the party of NO and their only goal is to make "Obama a one term president" as McConnell stated in public.

"So the GOP put 100 amendments into a bill they did not vote for?"

You need to ask Grassley and the rest of the GOP.

The only reason I can think of is that they are indeed the party of NO and their only goal is to make "Obama a one term president" as McConnell stated in public.

Lets try and use a little logic here.

The bill passed with no Republican votes. So, even though the GOP were the party of No, they did not stop the bill. The question is why did the amendments, particularly the individual mandate, remain in the bill when only Democrats voted for it? Even more confusing to your argument is that the President specifically campaigned against the individual mandate but it remained in the bill he signed into law. So, the only logical conclusion is that the amendments remained in the bill to satisfy elements of the Democratic party.

The fact that no Republican voted for this and you are still trying to blame them shows what a bad piece of legislation this is. If it was so good you would be taking credit for it and shouting from the rooftops that no Republicans voted for it.

NJ has 1.3 million people who are uninsured.

Of course this does not mean they have no access to health care.

http://www.nj.gov/njhealthlink/home/uninsured.html

Well, at least Harley Chic is consistent....

Consistently irrelevant, irrational, and irritating.

By the way, Romney balanced the budget in MA with the assistance of a large Capital Gains Tax increase that was approved before he was elected but in place during his term as Governor. He also increased fees and created new fees (33 new fees, 57 increased) including a two-cent-per-gallon increase in the state gasoline "special fee".

Romney also cut state funds to cities and localities, who in turn increased their property taxes to record levels - so the total state and local tax burden increased dramatically under Romney.

alan,

Of course they can use the emergency room. And then the hosptals spread that cost to you and others who have health insurance.

I voted for Obama because he said he would tackle healthcare problems. The uninsured unable to access affordable heath insurance, making insurance companies use their premiums for care and less for overhead. Set up best practice for hospitals for Medicare recipients etc.

I hope the SC rules that the law stands. It is getting us down the road for covering the 1.3 million in NJ and the 500,000 in MN to obtain insurance coverage, reduce costs for all of us.

Alan,

How many uninsured in NJ?

How many people would lose their Medicaid if the SC rules against that provision?

None as the provision will not be implemented until 2014.

From your article

Funding: The federal government has given $698.4 million to state and local governments, employers, health centers and others in New Jersey to implement the law.

So if now go back to Jody original question maybe if pollsters asked realistc questions they would get better answers. For example, instead of "Do you support children up to the age of 16 staying on their parents policy?", they could ask "Would you be willing to pay $x to allow children up to the age of 12 to stay on their parents policy?".

In an interview with former Aetna CEO yesterday he was asked what it would mean for premiums if the mandate is struck down. According to his actuaries, if there is no mandate and the requirement to insure anybody regardless of pre-existing conditions remains, then premiums will rise between 20% and 30%.

I hope the SC rules that the law stands. It is getting us down the road for covering the 1.3 million in NJ and the 500,000 in MN to obtain insurance coverage, reduce costs for all of us.

Why do you think costs will go down? So far all the changes have raised costs and with the HHS and its love of mandates I don't see why that will change.

Phine, Im so sorry your going through this, I know what its like to deal with medical bills. I have a 29 year old son who has been blind since birth and suffered through paralysis and convulsions until he was 14. My now wife has a genetic bone disease which has left her with only 1 ankle and 1 shoulder joints left. Everything else is metal. We just got to a point 4 months ago where she had her left knee put back in, she went 14 months with out a knee just two bones glued together with medical cement. Our family medical records used to take up 3 full filing cabinets at our Dr. office. Our fear and this has been confirmed by both our Dr. and our Orthopedic Dr. that there is a real possibility that some group or panel of 3 Dr.s that are not part of our regular medical team will review her records and decide that sh is not worth the spend. Up until now Ive paid for all of it with insurance and supplemental policies. Which means we do with out a few things that other people get to do. I am very happy to say my son was adamant about working and paying for his own way and went to school to be a certified Micro Soft engineer and has a job. He did this with out applying as a handicapped employee which his employer viewed as a great work ethic.

alan,

Our governor Dayton opted in March 2011 for the early expansion of insuring adults without children to be insured under Medicaid. This option was available to states before the law expansion takes effect in 2014. This gave 84,000 state residents heath insurance.

Cost will go down when there are more people in the insurance pool to spread the costs for care. There are incentive for hospitals and doctors to provide high quality- and efficient care. they are provisions for monitoring fraud and waste in the doctor / hospital bills submitted to insurance companies and Medicare. All these thing will keep insurance premiums from sky rocketing.

If your quote from some ex CEO is right that insurance premiums will go up 30% then lets get rid of insruance companies and go to a single payer system. One system of payment to all to doctors and hospitals and get rid of insurance companies. Both you and I know that will not happen in our lifetime.

Thanks Alan for the discussion......... off to work I go.

alan: "So the GOP put 100 amendments into a bill they did not vote for?"

Yes, they did. That is why it is what it is.

Congress was constantly ammending the legislation. The Republicans were vacillating on whether they would or would not vote, if they could vote for things they had originally proposed or not, if they could compromise or if they would simply vote against the President.

This is exactly why Nancy Pelosi said what she said, though Republicans always quote her out of context.

This is exactly why Nancy Pelosi said what she said, though Republicans always quote her out of context.

Exactly what amendments were added by the Republicans in the house? Please stop with this. You are embarrassing yourself. Take responsibility for this lousy piece of legislation.

There were enough Democratic leaders backslapping each other when the President signed. I didn't see any of them thank the Republicans for their contribution. I didn't see any Republicans at the signing ceremony.

"Republicans are responsible for the amendments in a bill they did not vote for". If this is true then Democrats are the worst politicians ever. and never forget the 180 the President did on this bill "people should not be forced to pay for health insurance". FLIP.....FLOP

Let's not forget that Grassley wrote a portion of the bill (modeled on HIS writing of a similar section of Medicare), then proceeded to criticize it as the now infamous 'death panels'. Why would someone author something that they later criticized so harshly?

The amendments were stalling tactics while they waited for Kennedy to die, and they were attempts at planting poison pills. That's why Pelosi said what she did. We have to wait until the Repubs are done souring the stew before we know how it tastes. But with a dash of this and a pinch of that it can be made to taste sweet again. Unless, of course, the repubs manage to spill it and waste the work that has been done to this point.

I see feilden left.... that was funny.

Phine - No more talk about not being here anymore, girlfriend. If I can get through to the other side of cancer, so can you. I only want to hear you talk about the bright, happy future you are going to have.

we shall see.

good luck with the spin... let's talk again in November.

Job1 -- Explain how you can say "this will be a tight one" (I assume you mean since you couldn't be referencing Feisty LOL election) and at the same time showing the president winning by 17% in the electoral college. That doesn't seem close to me. What am I missing?

keep dreaming comrad, Baraka is toast

Romney will trounce Obama by 7 points, despite historic cheating by the Obama regime

It's too close for comfort. In the real world the President should walk away with 300 plus. However, that may not happen.

Hey Ben--what are you missing?

Your monthly govco checks very soon. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Honestly, I don't know how Romney can win if he loses Florida, which he probably will. Obama has several paths to 270, but Romney essentially has to run the table on the swing states. And he's behind in all of them, I believe.

President Obama You need to tell your supporters that your company, General Motors, sold and closed factories and laid off thousands of people. Plants were sold in Saginaw, Flint, Dayton, Adrian, Sandusky & Cottondale. Plants were closed in Coopersville, Columbus, Milwaukee, Anderson, Wichita Falls, Athens, Fitzgerald, Laurel, & Otathe. Not to mention the many family dealerships forced out of business because they weren't politically connected to the Unions.

Under Obama, the economy has shrunk and jobs have been lost. There are fewer people employed now than there were when you took office. Your only hope is to fool people like your supporters/sheep, into being afraid of a pro-growth guy like Romney. Good luck with that.

Gosh, many Republicans are showing signs of short term memory. I myself remember how bad the economy and unemployment were under President Bush and getting worst up to his last days in office, with 750,000 jobs were being lost a month .

So actually the truth is, President Obama inherited this incredible brink of depression mess from President Bush and President Obama has done a good job of turning the country around.

I honestly have to say anyone that doesn’t recognize this fact is pretty out of touch with reality and living in “Rush World.”

Jon -- Not on SS yet and I work. Not on gov't checks so I don't understand the comment.

Four years into Obama’s “recovery,” economic growth is averaging a miniscule 1.9 percent. The president’s puny recovery has been devastating for all Americans, including young people and minorities who can’t find jobs as well as seniors who rely on badly under-funded programs such as Social Security and Medicare.

"Good intentions" are not a substitute for a strong and growing economy....you have a better chance of winning the lottery.