I still say that they will keep some of it, and kick back the rest for revision. By the time that happens, the election cycle will be over and they can avoid having a political @!$%# storm thrown in their laps.

Yes HCR but not FORCED and subsidized by the taxpayers (we're broke or is that something that doesn't concern you as well). Why not Tort reform (maybe because a lot of lawmakers are lawyers themselves?) to make limits paid out on lawsuits and payments made by the plaintiff on frivolous lawsuits? Why do we need a "nanny" government to solve each and every problem -- we should be responsible and held accountable to ourselves -- seems to be a concept that you on the left do not comprehend.

Here you go Brian and Red, Hope your computer doesn't melt down trying to get to the site:

http://www.gop.gov/indepth/pledge/healthcare

Now feel free to rip it apart without any solutions.

UAW - This poll might restore your faith in Americans. However, the ongoing partisan gridlock in Congress (politics) in general means no one wants to solve or even address the problems. I've lost all faith in politicians. I won't go issue by issue but I point the majority of these problems on the GOP. Compromise is a dirty word to them and there is no way an opposing view is seen as anything other then socialism.

WCA - Based on the lack of answers from the right I see they have no answers. I'm not talking about pledges or concepts we need something concrete. What will the GOP propose if the ACA is deemed unconstitutional? How will those policies reduce costs, increase coverage, protect people from being dropped or denied coverage?

By the way, I think they will probably decide the mandate to be unconstitutional. While you all will probably cheer and spike the ball, it doesn't mean a solution for health care has been found.

Feisty & nomo..., no plan is better than what Nancy & Co. cooked up, seriously. However that said I predict you will see a Republican plan being unveiled in the coming months once SCOTUS sends down its ruling. That plan will ultimately drive health care costs down (something Obumer care does not do) by making providers compete for patients, who control their own health care accounts.

I have yet to see an objective, detailed, reality-based description of what is in the Affordable Health Care Act and how it would affect people.

Couldn't NBC devote a prime time half hour to explaining how the bill works, what it's provisions are, and how it would (or would not) affect people?

We all know Sarah Palin muddied the waters with her "death panel" claims, which the msm eventually went out of their way to debunk (and yet she's repeating them AGAIN.)

Can't some enterprising producers and journalists work together to get out an understandable, detailed, realistic description of what this bill entails, before they go surveying un-informed Americans what their opinion of it is?

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

What is their solution?

What is before the court is NOT about the individual Mandate, healthcare reform, or Republicans vs. Democrats, but whether the Congress can overstep its bounds and violate the terms of its charter (the Constitution) because our elected representatives lacked the intestinal fortitude to DO THEIR DAMNED JOBS correctly and have ACH be funded by a TAX. That's right, A TAX, not a tax credit, or a tax deduction, but a TAX; get it?

Our constitution is a document that restricts what the government can do. It says to all three branches of government the same thing that was said in Job 38:11

Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further

It’s all about RESTRAINT of government and how far it can delve into your life. If we allow the Congress to violate those protections, we then open the same door to any abuse that they want to inflict upon us. The Constitution was written in a way to protect you and I from what government CAN become if left to its own devices and Machiavellian desires.

I do not believe that the government has the right to REQUIRE you or me to purchase something from a private entity; no matter how laudable the reason might be. If the government is allowed to continue in this direction, where will they stop? Because bureaucracy know no bounds, if they can do this, can they require that you buy your next car only from GM because they own a piece? Can they require that you only use Merrill-Lynch for your 401(k), Pension Fund or IRA? Can they require you to only get your Home Mortgage from Bank of America? Can they require you buy your home, car, and life Insurance only from AIG or your Groceries from Harris Teeter? Do you see where this can lead? Given the trustworthiness (or lack thereof) of our congresses over the past 40+ years, would you be willing to trust them with so much power? I believe it was George Washington that supposedly said:

“Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant but a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.”

Government is made up of people that can be corrupted by either profit, power, position or a combination thereof, and Congress has not had the best track record for the past 35+ years. Do you really want them to have unlimited power over what they can charge you for or take out of your paycheck? Do you want them to have the ability to kill you without the due process of law like they did Al-Awlaki even if the miserable SOB really deserved to die (Mr. Holder says we can do that now)? Any time you ignore the rules, no matter how laudable the reason may be, you open the door for abuse. Once the virginity is lost, the next time is not nearly as big a deal. Is that what you want?

When I lived in England, I someone told me a rather amusing story about George Bernard Shaw. It went:

At a social gathering, a well know female tabloid reporter was trying to get an interview with George Bernard Shaw. His friends suggested that he stay clear of her because she would "drag him through the mud" in the tabloids. Instead of following their advice he went directly to her and asked:

Madam, would you sleep with the King?

She said "If he so commanded, Yes, I would."

Shaw then said, "What would it take for you to sleep with me?"

She said, "How Dare You! What do you take me for, a common whore?"

Shaw's reply was, "I established that with the First Question. Now I am merely attempting to establish the price."

The first time you set the precedent, you have established a basis for future rulings, anything after that is just a negotiation exercise of agreeing on today's going rate. I fear that, once given, there will be nothing to stop more of the same from happening until we end up in an Orwellian World. Don't think it can happen? Just look at what happened to Germany between 1930 and 1945; it can happen here too if we fail to restrict the government's power

the funny part is that 37% are against it, and 22% is for it, but I'll bet that only 2% polled even understand it........

PS: Notice WCA has crawled over here without answering your simple question on the other thread?

I just went back to see his comment to show why he supports Willard. Still nothing. But that doesn't surprise me. How do you support someone who doesn't offer anything to support?

And now we have another nimrod in JamesinSeattle. His answer to the question of: What does the GOP have to offer for health care all of the Americans who don't have insurance. His answer: I know this one will be tough to swallow... but it's WORK.

Apparently he is like so many other of the far right who refuse to acknowledge that there are tens of thousands of WORKING people across the country who are not offered insurance from their employer and others who don't earn enough money to afford it. Pathetic.

... or that the majority simply don't know what is in the bill.

But I stand with Feisty in wanting to know what the GOP has to offer to all of the people who don't have health care.

So you want to know what the alternative is before we've worked out what's in the current legislation? Watched the former CEO of Aetna this morning who still didn't what HHS will propose or what regulations will be issued. This and Dodds-Frank must be two of the worst pieces of legislation ever. Their intentions may have been good but in practice they really are badly written and left too many decisions to the regulators.

Not too many are aware of the massive tax increases the HCR will usher in. There are fines, fees and....unlike the spin, rationing is definitely figured into the equasion. Note how a single person will have all regulatory powers and how said person can indeed, with the stroke of a pen, deny coverage to 'old' people and give them 'end of life counseling' in lieu of care.

Then, the insurance companies and big Pharma will make out like bandits, huge numbers of new customers and no limits on costs, what a deal. Waivers, bribery, closed door dealing and putting off till after elections do not make for faith in a program. We need something intelligent re healthcare, not this bloated bureaucratic take-over that panders to big Pharma, big medicine and insurance companies. Hell, if they closed the loop-hole and allowed for companies to compete across state lines, that would have made a huge difference in costs, it wouldn't pad pockets to the tune of trillions of dollars though.

Mark, the plans are there, but I have to wonder, were all of the questions you asked, answered before ACA was passed?

I would have liked to see other ways at health care reform, before we attempted this major overhaul.

First, I think there should have been some sort of tort reform. I assist many doctors with their tax returns and the price they pay for malpractice insurance is outrageous! I think there should be some sort of capped dollar amount that a person can sue, based on a tiered injury (i.e. capped dollar amount for loss of limb, capped dollar amount on loss of life, capped dollar amount for overdose of medicine that does not result in loss of life).

I also think those of us with insurance should be taxed based on a certain percentage of our benefit (i.e. a 10% tax on 40% of the premiums our employer pays. That money can then be used to further fund medicare and medicaid. I know a lot of doctors that refuse medicare and medicaid insurance because they do not pay out as well as private insurance and they are very late at providing payment. This leads a lot of doctors to overcharge on private insurance just to compensate for the lack of payment from medicaid and medicare. This increases the private companies rates and puts us in a vicious cycle.

This is just some of my suggestions and I do admit, I'm not an expert in the healthcare field, so my suggestions may not do anything in our messed up healthcare world!

Here you go Brian :

I support Mitt Romney because he is running on a platform of of free enterprise. His plan seeks to reduce taxes, spending, regulation, and government programs. He seeks to increase trade, energy production, human capital, and labor flexibility. It relinquishes power to the states instead of claiming the Federal Government has the solution to every problem.

Everything our current President abhors.

Amy B. Portland, ME

I have yet to see an objective, detailed, reality-based description of what is in the Affordable Health Care Act and how it would affect people.

Go read the bill Amy. It takes awhile...it's 2300ish pages of legalese. But, you will find answers there.

Like how it isn't funded

Like how there are "death panels" (it's actually the section on the Elder Care Committee and how they will look at cost of care versus likelihood of cure when deciding if a treatment should be covered).

Like how in 2300 pages, there isn't a plan to reduce the COST OF CARE. (Pelosi, Reid and Obama are idiots...they didn't look deep enough to the root of it when putting this turd together)

Enough with these massive bills that try and fix everything in one swoop. Make the changes necessary to reduce costs one at a time.

Amy B. - I can tell you for a fact that the electronic records mandate is working. A relative of mine was saved from a potentially nasty drug interaction because of it.

To all you healthy republicans. If the law get shot down, I hope none of you gets sick, It would be funny when some of you get sick and then the insurance company drops you. Than you lose everything. You will be wishing that the was still in place. I'm a cancer survivor, to get insurance from Blue Cross Blue Shield one has to be 10 years in remission before they will look at you. Now thats real American. The best part when you go to the insurance pool guess who runs it? Blue Cross Blue Shield. The rates are real high and when you turn 50 they go even higher. Now thats real American. So the way it looks all you in the republican/tea bag party don't care about anyone else but yourselves, or thats the perception you give. It makes you look like heartless bastards

WCA - I wanted single payer or a public option to increase competition and hopefully have lower policies. I don't like the special waivers to opt out by big companies. I thought the individual mandate shouldn't have been implemented as fine vs. a tax. The first part of Chris 38... post above describes this. The rest goes a bit too far from me into Liberetarian thinking, but I digress. I think that instead of the mandate a tax should have been used to implement a single payer system. That boat has passed. I criticized the mandate, but would rather have the ACA then to go back to nothing at all.

Regarding the GOP plan you linked to, how are more HSA's the answer. Seriously I had a HSA at a previous job, and there is no way my contributions alone and the paltry contributions the employeer put in could have provided funding to pay for medical treatment. The blurb about the need to ensure pools for high risk individuals, doesn't that seem a lot like what the ACA provides? The talking point about ensuring people can get coverage with pre-existing conditions - I noted it mentioned if people had previous coverage, through their employeers? throught their parents? Will this cover children with preexisting coverage when they make the switch to adults, trying to get coverage with preexisting coverage?

I could accept buying plans across state lines, but it is not like all insurances only provide coverage to their state residents. I'm pretty sure the big ones BCBS, Humana are nationwide they don't only monopolize in certain states.

My main point is that I bet when the ACA is nuetered, the GOP if Romney is elected will go forward to repeal everything and leave us with nothing but vague promises.

@ UAWPleeeeeeease,

What Idea's does this better leader have?

- the house (US Economy) is on fire (started in 2007 due to 6 years of Republican Policy)

- the fireman(Republicans) say that they will not put it out until the homeowner (Obama) is changed.

- the neighbors (US citizens) are suffering and in jeopardy of losing everything because of this inaction.

Any similarities here?

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

What MSNBC won't pay for collapsed posts?

Actually - I'm paid double for the collapsed posts!

Thanks SO much for doing your part! ;o)

Cha-Ching!

It must be a burden to go through life carrying so much contempt and hatred. Every post is like a rerun of the previous 5,000 posts. In a strange way I feel sorry for people like you.

Cult of Personality.

Please tell me exactly what the dollar amount of your life is worth?

THE NASTY REDHEAD HAS TO VENT HER FRUSTRATIONS SOME WHERE. With venomous hatred like her's Friends are not an option. Thank god she has found a loyal following of Like thinking Ultra libs here on the vine!

Even if it is ruled that forcing someone to buy health insurance so you can regulate it, unconstitutional. (Cannot force someone into the market even though they make up part of the risk factor within the markert?)

Most if not all of the remaining parts of the Healthcare Reform Act will stay in place.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe."

The quote is by Albert Einstein ^

Dakota-Kid

As of now, my life insurance policy says $120,000!

All kidding aside, I see your point and do sympathize with the housewife (or househusband) whose bread-winning spouse died due to doctor error. But, (with the risk of sounding heartless) that is what life insurance is for, to replace loss of income should a spouse die. I still think there should be some sort of cap on what a person can sue for for a death due to malpractice.

Hey Feisty, they already told us what their plan was back in 2010 just before the vote and exactly right after the democrats took out the public options for them and replaced it with the republicans private pay option with penalties. They said that not a single republican had ever read any of the healthcare proposals that had been put in front of them as they have trouble reading period. They said they wanted to scrap all proposals and begin back where they started more than 50 years ago. Their plans are simply, pay out of your pocket or crawl away and die for the middle class and lower class sectors and limit the liability of the quacks that screw up and destroy your lives if they don't kill you outright on the surgical tables or with their poorly supervised treatment programs. They do not want those injured to be able to sue a doctor for any reason and the not so smart republicans that have already said they don't understand anything that is put in front of them actually believe this alone will bring down healthcare costs for the upper class americans.

The American people never wanted this thing to begin with. Does anyone remember how many people % wise rejected this obama care idea ? If I remember correctly it was a high majority that did not want it. Yet it still made it through with the president doing what HE felt was best for us.

My god people what kind of a country are we turning into ? Our leaders we appoint are no longer listening to us and doing what they feel is best ? Or they are open to bribes from people who wish to have the agenda's fulfilled.

I so wish the USA community would rise up against this over powering government and get them in check. The only legal way to do that is to vote all these people out of office. Down side to that is it will just fill up again with people who are just as corrupt as our government now. What do you do ? Were screwed no matter how we look at it. Too bad the States cant all break up and have a part of the USA back to the way it was before all this politically correct garbage, and corrupt politicians.

More Americans would be okay with the AHA being thrown out, true, and then more Americans would become upset that it was thrown out. Once you learn what's in it, its not all that bad.

DarkShadows quote "Working doesn't keep the health insurance companies from denying coverage because of pre-existing conditions, or just because you become a liability to them"

Got news for you shadows, it doesn't make any difference. NOTHING in this health care bill does anything about the COST of pre-existing conditions. You've bought a PACK OF LIES!!! This is quite personal to me. OK, so they can't "drop you", so that's the end of it for thinkers like you. How about this then, Allstate or whomever, can still raise your rates to whatever the hell they would like. Pre cancer $400 a month, after cancer diagnosis $1940 a month. NOTHING stops them from doing that. Sell stupid elsewhere, this "bill" does nothing to control costs, nor keep ambulance chasers at bay, medicare or medicaid fraud, which is out of control, not one thing in this bill does anything to control the out of control costs of health care.

Can't believe I'm agreeing with Feisty on this one that while maybe people don't like what they've read (heard) about PPACA and think they're against it, the vast majority do feel something should be done about healthcare in this country.

Anyone who wants to go back to allowing pre-existing conditions, adverse selection processes, etc just needs to sit down and think about what they are really wishing for.

And as an Independent I'd like to hear from the GOP what their proposal is because like the old saying goes: If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.

the funny part is that 37% are against it, and 22% is for it, but I'll bet that only 2% polled even understand it........

The only two percentages that matter to me at this point are the 12.5% increase that I will be paying for my premium in another month... and the 50%+ that my insurance has gone up in the last 5 years.

I'm not sure who this reform is helping, but it certainly isn't me.

How about this then, Allstate or whomever, can still raise your rates to whatever the hell they would like. Pre cancer $400 a month, after cancer diagnosis $1940 a month. NOTHING stops them from doing that. Sell stupid elsewhere, this "bill" does nothing to control costs, nor keep ambulance chasers at bay, medicare or medicaid fraud, which is out of control, not one thing in this bill does anything to control the out of control costs of health care.

JCB, I'm not 100% sure that one couldn't legally challenge that kind of premium rate application. Under most insurance laws that I'm aware of, one cannot selectively increase premiums for one person without increasing the premiums for the entire population falling within that category insured under the same plan. Doesn't mean a health insurer wouldn't try, but I suspect that would get challenged by any State Insurance Commissioner real quick.

TNSEVOL... Please cite the studies for your assumptions.

Rod_Father

Even if it is ruled that forcing someone to buy health insurance so you can regulate it, unconstitutional. (Cannot force someone into the market even though they make up part of the risk factor within the markert?)

Most if not all of the remaining parts of the Healthcare Reform Act will stay in place.

What you aren't understanding is that if the individual mandate is struck down, the rest of the bill does not work (with the exception of some minor changes to medicare that we can't afford anyway).

You simply cannot have a full waiver of prexisiting conditions, a guarantee of coverage, and no mandate. It will not work. Why? Because in that scenario, there is nothing to prevent someone from going without insurance until they get sick...purchasing a policy (guaranteed to issue), having it cover whatever illness they have (no prex), and then discontinuing the policy.

Given that an outpatient surgery runs about $20,000...how much premium needs to be charged per month to cover those people that do only pay a month worth of premium? By the way...that $20,000 would be a bare minimum.

There is significant precedent to predict that Obamacare will be struck down in entirety, due to the individual mandate being crucial to the other provisions:

Judge Vinson already did this http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/013111healthcareruling.pdf

From that ruling (page 70) and from the Act itself

[The individual mandate] is essential to Congress’s overall

regulatory reform of the interstate health care and health

insurance markets . . . is “essential” to achieving key

reforms of the interstate health insurance market . . .

[and is] necessary to make the other regulations in the

Act effective.

Yep, TNSEVOL, I too would like to know the source of your preposterous comment about Fox News viewers....and please be very specific, because anybody can make s**t up.

Wanna bet Joe?

They may strike down the mandate that people buy insurance, but most if not all of the remaining parts of the bill will stay in place.

The individual mandate was something that the insurance companies wanted.

DarkShadows said: The fact remains that working doesn't give you any security in providing health care. While the Democrat's health care reform might not have been the desirable path, at lest they are trying to do something.

It certainly doesn't under Obamacare, access to care for small business has plummeted since its inception. And "trying to do something" is a p**s poor excuse for the disaster that is Obamacare. There is a post above where you can see what the Republicans have since you don't seem to know either.

Joe - great, concise answer to AmyinPortland. It is soooo sad so many do not understand what has been created by the Dems and Obama. Palin has been correct all along concerning "death panels," and still the Obamabots have not bothered to read up and LEARN. Chances are, they are pretty young. I'm sure it will become an issue when they get older and they don't get the treatment they think they are "entitled" to.

Here is a very interesting read...what we are in for, and this was a simple program compared to Obamacare.....

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/1997/06/bg1119-the-kentucky-healthcare-experiment

I always suspected the left didn't know a single thing about the history of attempted health care bills. The comments by Feisty and others prove it. There were almost a dozen attempts at health care bills in Congress since the 80s. In every single instance, the Democrats said "NO!" and wouldn't even allow it to the floor for debate.

Stop your political "chest thumping" and realize there are more than just far left voters who weren't represented in the writing of this bill. No taxation without representation.

You do know that Fox News viewers were found to know much less about current events than those who watched no news at all, right?

Feisty used to throw that around too. When I went and looked it up, the study concluded that people who ONLY watch Fox News (no other source whatsoever) came in last. 2nd to last were those who ONLY watch MSNBC by only a few percentage points. The difference is, Feisty and others preach not watching other media outlets and those you're accusing of Fox News supporters are actually reading and replying to an article on MSNBC. Your logic doesn't apply in this situation. I thought those who voted Democratic were supposed to be smarter. What happened to you?

So if it is struck down... we go back to paying for the uninsured with our taxes.

I fail to see how this is a good solution, other than the fact that Republicans will get to act like immature 2nd graders and yell: "we win"

Either way, the system is still broken and we still pay for the uninsured.

But, I suppose having your team "win" is more important than actually fixing a problem.

And let's not overlook the fact that this entire debate has created such a divide in this country that neither side will ever agree to any solution the other side presents. So don't be so foolish as to believe any other plan will even be a possibility. Both sides hate each other so much that they will reject any other plan, just on principle alone.

Get ready for insurance premiums to skyrocket once again, and more debt to be incurred as we pay for the uninsured with our taxes.

myguy - you will still be paying for the uninsured in Obamacare, and it will cost you more than you are paying now. Additionally, the costs will be so high that many will qualify for "subsidies" to help pay for their premiums. Why do we need to do this? Why make a big govt. pass the tax money around and around and have less than before this was signed?

I would like to better understand what is in the law. The President promised that he would go over the health care bill "line by line" with my congressman and that all proceedings would be on CSPAN. Of course our President always keeps his promises since, after all, he is the President of the United States of America. All hail the Chief! Does anyone know when the broadcasts are scheduled to begin?

Allen

There were almost a dozen attempts at health care bills in Congress since the 80s. In every single instance, the Democrats said "NO!" and wouldn't even allow it to the floor for debate.

It would serve you well to research the facts you use, before stating them. Yes, there were dozens of attempts by Republicans to pass health care legislation... all of which were almost EXACTLY THE SAME as "Obamacare".

The individual mandate is a conservative principle. The idea that people need to be personally responsible and get their own insurance, instead of expecting society to pay for it. Much the same way you feel about welfare.

I understand that because a liberal passed a bill, you are required to be against it... no matter what it is. But try looking beyond your partisan glasses.

When I went and looked it up, the study concluded that people who ONLY watch Fox News (no other source whatsoever) came in last.

That is because people who watch Fox generally refuse to watch any other source, hence the term "lamestream media" when referring to all other news sources. This has led to the mentality that every other source, on the entire planet, is wrong, and they are the ONLY ones who are right.

I know my healthcare costs have gone up since Obamacare, faster than all the years prior, thanks a lot Dems!

willowbrook

Considering that the law requires all insurance companies to use 80% of premiums on coverage, instead of executive salaries... as they have historically only used around 30-40% on coverage... I have serious doubts over your claim that costs will be as high as you predict.

Here is a very interesting read...what we are in for, and this was a simple program compared to Obamacare.....

And for an article that tells the other side of the story, this link tells us that the Kentucky experiment failed because it lacked the muscle of the individual mandate.

One big reason things went sour after passage of the state’s Health Care Reform Act of 1994 was the enactment of insurance market reforms without a requirement that everyone obtain health insurance coverage. As a result, most of the state’s health insurers left the market, and some of those that remained went out of business.

http://thelink.ahip.org/sites/default/files/AHIP_CaseStudy_Kentucky_FINAL_singlepage_lowres.pdf

It certainly doesn't under Obamacare, access to care for small business has plummeted since its inception.

Got anything to back up that rather outrageous claim? This article disputes the hysterical claim - and in fact illustrates that small business will be screwed if Obamacare is struck down.

If the entire law is overturned: Small businesses will be back where they started in 2009. There will be no federally-required exchanges offering affordable coverage, although some states may continue to develop such exchanges. The restrictions on premiums and medical loss ratios have already helped small employers to hold down increases in coverage costs, but without those brakes, such costs may rapidly increase.

Small businesses would also lose the tax credits under the ACA.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/on-small-business/what-small-business-owners-should-know-about-each-possible-supreme-court-health-care-ruling/2012/06/25/gJQAIqag1V_story.html

spider for your info. the statement about fox news viewers was on the news 1 week ago. i dont remember exactly who it came from. Only that it caught my attention. It came from the MSM.

The GOP wants to hand over our SSN to WAll Street so they can get their filthy mitts on that money, do away with Medicare and I don't care what anybody says, yes, they expect you to ride out any serious illness and die. That's their solution. If you can't afford decent health care, too bad folks.

Do not vote Republican.

Fortunately, the Supreme Court rulings are not based on polls or populatity. They are base on the constitutionality of the case. The republicans offer nothing and yet cry their heads off. They have had many oppritunities to reform health care, but as long as they can afford their own they do not care about people who can't afford insurance. Health care reform is nothing new. This is just like immigration reform. We've need it for many years and the republicans always drag their feet on these issues because they think it will hurt business. And what is more important to republicans than business? Nothing!

Will,

Does anyone know when the broadcasts are scheduled to begin?

Sometime between now and never.

For those of you that keep saying " what does the GOP have to offer ". You really need to start paying attention and get off the Kool Aid.

Health Care Reform and Health insurance Reform are two entirely different topics.

Feisty Dead Head - American exceptional-ism my ass!

My sense is is that your ass is NOT an example of American exceptionalism.

Does the POLL ask what TV news media these opinions (37%) are based on?

Do you people even know what drove the cost of medical up in the first place, do you know what is keeping the cost up, do you know how to catch a fish? Obama does. we are looking at everything from the wrong angle, why doesn't the government do what it can to bring the cost down, the insurance Co's are stroking you from both ends, they don't care all the money goes in a big circle and right back to them.

Do drug companies need to charge $90.00 for a pill? does a hospital need to charge $300.00 for a aspirin think about it. does a surgeon need $8,000.00 a hour, do you know what hypochondriac's can do to socialized medicine when they flood the clinics, this plan is a disaster. and I should not have to pay for your birth control.

you do know that this is a manufactured mess, created by the insurance Co's and they stand to make trillions of dollars off of it.

For those of you that have insurance have you looked at how many times you pay for the same thing through accident, home, auto, the insurance Co's have got you covered three different ways for the same thing. lets look at the money suckers for a change. this bill is their dream come true. they have been manipulating us in this direction for half a century now, and you are falling for it.

Be careful what you wish for.

If the SCOTUS determines that the Individual Mandate is unconstitutional, and that the Federal Government cannot force individuals to purchase a service, then Corporations (who are people, my friend) cannot be mandated to provide services.

Vis-a-vis, hospitals will be allowed to turn away patients without health insurance or a means to pay for the service.

Hello, Public Option.

Can you imagine writing a Health Care policy for the country and not even be proud enough of it to use it? No Bama 2012. I hope they do throw this out. They won't even use it and MAKE us buy it. Oh hell to the NO.

Chris--- No you do not want the government to do all those things, but why can an insurance company do much the same by changing the rates at random, changing your coverage at their will, drop coverage at will for existing conditions and you are left paying high premiums with little coverage. At the same time if the company you work for is paying for part or all of your premium, you are happy you are covered, so you expect everyone should be on their own, well guess who is in reality paying your premium, it is the customer who pays for your companies product or service as the cost of your premium is passed on to the end user who probably can't afford his own insurance premium but in fact has to pay for yours.

gcwil57-Fortunately, the Supreme Court rulings are not based on polls or populatity. They are base on the constitutionality of the case

This SCOTUS is nothing, if not political. Why are the vast majority of their rulings along party lines? They threw out the Constitution long ago. And as for me, Obamacare may not be perfect but it's a good starting point. I was someone who was uninsured because I was refused coverage because of a "pre-existing" condition, experienced a traumatic event and became one of the many who couldn't pay. Fortunately, I have coverage now.

Tommy Lee-1217088, it so funny that the cornerstone of Jugheads campaign isn't even whispered about from any liberal. It's almost like they are ashamed of it.

The best way to make a slave and keep him a slave is to make him dependant on you.

Isn't this a WSJ poll? The great majority of their subscribers are probably republican. And, these are the ones they polled. To me, this means that nearly half of them are not against the Health Care Law.

Now, add in the fact that nearly all democrats are for it, a truer picture appears. If you only poll republicans, it is a very biased poll.

D Buck,

I have another one for you.

A government that is powerful enough to give you everything is powerful enough to take it all away.

It has already started with cities in California banning fast food restaurants and Mayor Bloomberg banning soda. It is called food fascism!

We cannot create a cradle to grave dependant system, don't you people understand that? You claim that you will be free with such broad government control, but you will only be free to rattle your chains.

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!

I don't want to pay for your new lungs because you smoke a pack of cigarettes a day.

@ myguy - I didn't predict them, the bill expects them to be that high. They set the thresholds. And for Small Business, which is where I am, as soon as the bill was passed our renewals increased exponentially. We were spoiled with 2-8% increases before this. Now? 1st year - 34%, had to go HSA to keep a plan. 2nd year +18.9%, had to go to maximum deductible to keep plan. This year (we renew 8/1) +11.65%, have to go to a plan with equally high deductible, but historically speaking has "teaser" rates, and then hits you up with a big increase the second year, and not as good network as current plan. That keeps us where we are now, but I figure we will be done next year. All the other quotes? +29.9% to +186% more than we are currently paying. All we get for this, essentially is preventative care. No drug plan unless we spend $5000 first. For all the employees, the deductible is equal to several months take-home pay. Not seeing how this has made health care better for us. (Oh and the cost of family coverage is considered "rich" according to cost. They don't take into consideration how little we are receiving for that plan. This is based on that Health Care "credit" for small businesses, that's a sick joke too.) Also since we are in the small employer market, we do not have the bargaining power large companies do. They can increase our premiums up to 20% more than they spent the year before, so the talking point of 10% or less in 2012 is totally bogus. Rebates of excess premiums, yea right. The people who are backing this are not the people who have to pay for it. If they were responsible for the cost, they would change their tune real quick. (Oh why should I bother, those same people spending $1.40 for every tax dollar brought in and are borrowing the 40 cents from the Chinese. Maybe it is time to take their credit away from them?!?) All the money we waste with failing govt. bureaucracy is less money for our care.

I suspect the mandate will stay. We will know when we know.

What I'd like to know is. Of the 22% that say they are for it, how many of that 22% will actually be PAYING for it.

How is it that Republicans thought the individual mandate was Constitutional for 20 years until Obama passed it? Wasn't it their answer to every Democratic health care proposal for all that time, since 1989 when the Heritage Foundation first proposed it as a "solution"? How did it suddenly become unconstitutional?

gcwil57...(#1.81)..."And what is more important to republicans than business? Nothing!"

And what is your Doctor, if not a Business.....Here you have someone that paid a lot of money for their education and certainly has loans to pay back. They provide a service for a fee...Just like your auto-mechanic. They open up an office, which takes another investment, they hire staff, take on an accountant and a lawyer, make rent or mortgage payments on the office. They buy computers or a server, buy Medical record keeping software....

They have a payroll to meet each week for a staff that knows what they are doing, Insurance premiums to make, have to deal with Medicare and insurance companies for payments, electric bill, water bill, internet services......

Every Doctor I know IS a corporation...They have quarterly State and Federal Payment and reporting requirements...that paperwork must be nearly overwhelming.....The days of Marcus Welby, MD are over.....and even he had Consuelo to run the front office/ reception desk.....

Disturbed- No, the Supreme Court does work. The appointment of justices to the Supreme Court has become a political tool, attempting to influence votes by appointments, but I do feel that the SC can work and to this point does. I am greatly concerned about the latest appointments and the President's call for limiting the tenure of justices based on age.

So far as the nationalized healthcare bill is concerned it's really pretty bad. Essentially it is allowing the federal government yet another long tether into our lives and control of our healthcare choices. Face it, the federal government hasn't managed our money well in the largest "social" programs it runs (Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare)- what makes you believe that they have learned anything about managing a huge scale program when they've already screwed up the costs by over 1/3?? Remember they "reran" the numbers about a year ago and realized that the costs were much higher than anticipated? Yeah, that'll go swimmingly. Secondly, it makes the government our insurance company. With the costs going up and a reasonably limited fiscal trough of our money to suck up, how do you think they'll keep costs in control? If they are anything like England's nationalized health program they'll stop paying for bigger sugeries over a certain age, limiting treatments for certain deseases beyond the very basic, and leveraging their "investments" to those with great futures. So you'd better not get old, frail, or come down with anything because they will start choosing for you and just guess how successful you will be in negotiating with the government.

On your coverage, have you noticed that nationalized healthcare is impacting your coverage? Your costs have been going up over the last year plus because the federal government is leveraging private insurance to make them less affordable and push your employer to drop their coverage and move to the federal program. You see at some point they can make private insurance so much more expensive that small/middle sized businesses will have to opt out because of the costs. Be careful of what you wish for.

willowbrook

I will not speak to your situation, as I am not privy to that information, nor do I have any way to find out if what you say is truthful. I do know, however, that healthcare insurance costs at my company have not spiked to the extent that you claim. It seems the company you are doing business with is bending you over and having their way with you.

I will not argue that there are better solutions, but I will also not be a blind partisan hack that blames the entirety on one party. I remember all the revisions that were forced through by BOTH parties. I remember the Republican influence, just as much as the Democrats.

Your blind faith to one party, while excluding all other information, is cute... if not misguided.

@amy: Here's a timeline for what changes are being implemented when in PPACA: http://healthreform.kff.org/Timeline.aspx And here's mostly the same information in a different format: http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/8060.pdf

For those of you complaining about the costs of your health insurance, PPACA requires that companies must demonstrate that they are spending 80-85% of the premiums they collect on direct patient care or refund the monies. If you feel your company is gouging you, complain to your state insurance commissioner. Most states have policies about how much of a rate increase companies can charge and require that companies justify those rate increases.

Here's the study that shows the Fox viewers to have less information even than those who watch no news: http://publicmind.fdu.edu/2011/knowless/ And it was only conducted in NJ.

I bet all that 37% already have healthcare insurance. Since Obamacare became law the right wing multi-millionaires and billionaires have spent about 260 million dollars trying to diecredit ObamaCare. So it's no wonder the American people are confused after all the disinformation and misinformation which has been spread around about ObamaCare. One thing is certain, the cost of health care, the cost of health care insurance, and the health care system as it now exists in the U.S., needs to be reformed from top to bottom. Health care costs can't continue to increase year after year at more than two times the increase in the overall cost of living. If the ever increasing costs of health care and of health care insurance are not brought under control the nation's economy will collapse under the weight of this segement of the economy as it becomes a larger percentage of the U.S. economy with each passing year.

And honestly, this poll confuses me. If 37% are wanting PPACA to be declared unconstitutional, and 22% are not wanting it to be declared unconstitutional, what happened to the other 41% (almost half!) of the sample?

The TRUTH GOP has "WASTING THE TAX PAYERS MONEY AGAIN AND AGAIN FOR STUPIDITY CLEARLY STUPID LOSING CASES " including the Arizona's SB 1070. WHy !!!!


BY,Submitting to the legislatures of States a proposition to amend the Constitution of the United States.


Here is Why so,

SCOTUS

VS

The FED Obamacare & The Massachusetts Mandated Health Insurance Law.

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, (two-thirds of both houses concurring), That the following article be proposed to the legislatures of the several States as an amendment to the constitution of the United States, which, when ratified by three-fourths of said Legislatures, shall be valid, to all intents and purposes, as a part of the said Constitution, namely: Article XIII. Section 1.

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

1) Does the SCOTUS have the *authority* to overturn a constitutional amendment? No, for all the reasons as above .

2) Does the SCOTUS have the *power* to do so in practice? Yes. It can issue a ruling that eviscerates an amendment of any legal meaning, and that ruling will be final and unappealable. The example of this is the Slaughterhouse Cases opinion, which in practical terms read nearly all meaning out of the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the 14th amendment.

The U.S. Supreme Court has no power to:

Overturn Both House constitutional amendment & Massachusetts Court decision.


A part of the US Constitution would only be invalid if it is inconsistent with another Both House constitutional amendment & Massachusetts Court decision 2 parts are inconsistent like that, then one way of resolving the problem is to go with the part enacted later. So, if it were ever asked to do so, the SCOTUS could declare the Eighteenth Amendment now invalid, since it is inconsistent with the Twenty-First Amendment (which repealed it).

"No,"

the SCOTUS can't say an amendment is unconstitutional, but they can interpret the constitution in such a way that it renders the part of the constitution as ineffective. So in reality, yes they can do this.


This is the joint resolution adopting the Thirteenth Amendment and proposing it to the states for ratification. Like any other measure enacted by Congress, it is subject to the constitutional and other provisions for enactment and that is at least in principle reviewable by the Court. A proposed amendment not properly enacted by Congress or proprly ratified is not an effective amendment, and no part (at least yet) of the Constitution.



VERDICT : UPHELD HEALTH-CARE LAWS

The President is right on this matter pertaining CONSITUTIONAL issues, what I have refers above.TWO PARTS of the Constitution must be Identical. The FED and States.The SCOTUS need to address this urgently and declare the States of Arizona SB 1070 as ineffective, "NOT IDENTICAL" .NEED ratification .As the State of Arizona are against the "First Amendment" of Constitution.

I know the RWNJ's love it when I quote General Giap so I thought I would remind you of what he said about the Viet Nam war.

myguy - I'm the Administrator at the company I work for, that's why I can quote %'s. Additionally, the President insisted I quote with several different brokers, to ensure I was getting a complete picture. I worked with 4 different brokers, all of them came back with the exact same plan, the only difference is how much the broker fee will be. The brokers do not know who else I chose, and all received the same applications. Being only able to quote in 1 State is part of the problem, if we were able to cross state lines, I might be able to do better.

Is the company you work for over 50 employees? If so, no you won't have seen what the small businesses are seeing already. The large companies will get theirs in 2014. I know a couple of large company HR managers, and they all say the same thing, their increases will be in the millions.

I find your assumption I posses blind faith to one party amusing, but misguided. I am totally against Obama and those like Pelosi and Reid, who have put this bill into play. To this day, they continue to lie to us. Sorry, I'm not buying the lie. But to think I'm attached at the hip to the Republicans is wrong too. I'm more conservative than the current Republican leaders and it gripes me to no end to see the lack of willingness needed to get down to business and get govt. spending under control. I've seen nothing in the last 4 years to show me keeping a Democrat in the White House will make then next 4 years better. I do not especially support Romney, but to have the opportunity to not have 4 more years of what we've just been through will solidly put my vote next to Romney's name. They say to ask yourself, are you better off than you were 4 years ago? I have to say no. I work harder for less money, and that money doesn't go as far as the price of EVERYTHING has gone up.

General Giap said:

"By losing, we win."

It is a brilliant statement and so applicable to what is probably going to happen if part or all of the new Healthcare Law is struck down by the SCOTUS.

The President will beat that drum loud and long, decrying the activist judges of the court and the GOP for their attempts to prevent meaningful healthcare reform.

I think this was the plan all along. To have the GOP frothing at the mouth over "socialized medicine" based on a model created by their own candidate, Mr. Romney.

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. I stand in awe of the President. He is truly the smartest guy in the room.

Obama/Biden 2012

Republicans want to rest the government and balance the budget on the graves of the poor.

Ignorance tantamount to stupidity: Noah, who said, Medicare doesn't work, proving the government should stay out of healthcare. Medicare works quite well given the overall parameters of our health care system, which include massive theft by the private sector.

Noah confirms his ability to think by genuflecting to Ronald Reagan, GOP god, criminal, and traitor.

Let's face it, the GOP, which lies all the time about everything, is the party of mass murder, or to be nice about it, mass negligent homicide. Studies do differ on the actual numbers, which range from 20-45,000 per year.

What's more, if the law's individual mandate is found to be unconstitutional, 25 percent say that would hurt them and their families

Who are these people that would be hurt by losing a mandate that doesn't go into effect until 2014? How are you getting hurt by losing something you never had? Please take these 25% and slap them.

For those of you talking about death panels, a "widely debunked claim," according to the LATimes, did you know that "death panels" received a lying "pants on fire" rating and was termed "lie of the year" by politifact.com? Palin is leading the way with that claim as of yesterday:

It worked so well in 2009 as a way of marshaling opposition to President Obama’s healthcare reform law that Sarah Palin has revived her widely debunked claim that the law will create "death panels" to determine which citizens are worthy of healthcare.

Also, Romney wants to allow insurance companies to continue their practice of denying those with pre-existing conditions, according to ABCNews, something that could cause those people and their families to lose their house or worse if a parent loses their job.

"

By losing, we win."

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. I stand in awe of the President. He is truly the smartest guy in the room.

Do you really think Obama spent his first two years paying of members of his own party to pass a bill that the Supreme court would strike down? I stand in awe of your ignorance.

Let's face it, the GOP, which lies all the time about everything, is the party of mass murder, or to be nice about it, mass negligent homicide.

Don't hold back tell us what you really think. LOL What a silly, pathetic, ridiculous post. You should be embarrassed.

Studies do differ on the actual numbers, which range from 20-45,000 per year.

How did the Republicans "KILL" these 20-45,000 people? And just in case you didn't know those numbers have stayed the same even AFTER YOUR SAVIOR OBAMA PASSED HIS HEALTH CARE BILL!

Truly embarrassing.

I seriously cannot believe any Republican has a leg to stand on when the nominee they have put forward has created a simialr health plan for his state and is the poster child for what we have. What a bunch of hypocrites!! I'm not in love with this plan, but it beats what we have and as a small business owner, there is nothing more pressing than rising health costs associated with employees. Something MUST be done, and the plan I've heard from Ryan is smoke and mirrors.

I just wish Obama would've had the guts to cut some of the insurance lobbyists off at the knees, but maybe that can be part two. If someone can get the whiny two years olds to stop the temper tantrums anyway.

willowbrook

It sounds like you need to speak to your state insurance commissioner. Or that you will see a refund when the company you deal with can not prove that 80% of the premiums they collected have been used on medical care.

But I would still talk to your state's insurance commissioner.

I'm attached at the hip to the Republicans is wrong too. I'm more conservative

So you do not blindly follow your party because you are MORE extreme-right than your party. That tells me that you blindly follow ultra-conservative policies without giving any credence to any opposing view.

are you better off than you were 4 years ago?

Yes, very much so. My take home income has increased by 50% and my stock portfolio doubled. Of course, I recognized the fundamental change in business over the last 10 years, and the continual changes... and I have adjusted accordingly.

The difference between you and I... I don't blame the government, or President, for my personal problems. Never, not even once. I take charge of my life, own it, and adjust with changes as they come. If I find myself worse off than years prior, I do not blame the government for my personal failure, like a pathetic cry-baby... I take responsibility for my failures, because the only person to blame is myself.

Life is not fair... s*** happens. Sometimes your party is in control, sometimes they are not. Things change, businesses change, economics change. You have the choice to either let life wash over you, and pick up the pieces along the way... or take control of your own life, adjust with the changes, and take some god damn responsibility.

Willowbrook, we think along the same lines. I was working @ a LARGE gobal company before a car accident forced me out. I had the years so I just left. I wonder why they will only let you get quotes from your state? Where I worked @ when things changed and the company would have to pay more as you said, they would always try to recover it from us through other means. Ditto about Reid, Pelosi and Obama.

For those of you talking about death panels, a "widely debunked claim," according to the LATimes, did you know that "death panels" received a lying "pants on fire" rating and was termed "lie of the year" by politifact.com?

I saw no one talking about "death Panels"?

The Very FACT that America has NO Universal National Health Care System while all the other countries do is A NATIONAL DISGRACE. Putting up $4TRILLION CASH for War is Insane, while GREAZZZEEE, SLEEEZZZY KARAZAI smirks at US and says "Thanks sucker taxspayers!!"... All the work of The Bushies and I am Ashamed to Say Prez O who has CAVED. Does anyone know what the ceo of United HealthCare took home for 2008 Year Salary?? Hold on to Your Pants!!: $128,000,000 *C A S H* while their PAID policy holders were denied and DIED. ALL And I Mean ALL the "Health" Insurance Companies are republicanCrimeCartelArmies and some of you are gonna' vote for Rommel and his partner in sin?? You don't care?? Go Ahead... vote for these guys and see what happens... while you look in the mirror and at your family. Try this one on for Size: President Harry Truman in 1948: "The Republicans … will try
to make people believe that everything the Government has done for the country
is socialism. They will go to the people and say: "Did you see that social
security check you received the other day—you thought that was good for you,
didn't you? That's just too bad! That's nothing in the world but socialism. Did
you see that new flood control dam the Government is building over there for the
protection of your property? Sorry—that's awful socialism! That new hospital
that they are building is socialism. Price supports, more socialism for the
farmers! Minimum wage laws? Socialism for labor! Socialism is bad for you, my
friend. Everybody knows that. And here you are, with your new car, and your
home, and better opportunities for the kids, and a television set—you are just
surrounded by socialism! Now the Republicans say, 'That's a terrible thing, my
friend, and the only way out of this sinkhole of socialism is to
vote for the
Republican ticket.'" And that was 64 Years Ago!!!, the republicanCrimeCartel is still doing the same exploitation of people THEY ARE NOTORIUS FOR. Now, according to KingGeorgeTheVacuumBrained, it is called "free market" capitalism; with families in the streets and 21% Unemployment.......

Remember Fellow and Sister Americans: A vote for ANY republicanCrimeCartelSoldier, Rommel, is a vote Against Yours and Your Family's WellBeing

TNSEVOL........was asked for a sorce for his comment above on being dumber for watching Fox News. So......do search on...Fox News Dumber...and pick your website source, ther are numerous sites reporting studies done. Here is one from Alternet.org

Study Confirms That Fox News Makes You Stupid

A new survey of American voters shows that Fox News viewers are significantly more misinformed than consumers of news from other sources.

December 15, 2010 |

Advertisement

Yet another study has been released proving that watching Fox News is detrimental to your intelligence. World Public Opinion, a project managed by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland, conducted a survey of American voters that shows that Fox News viewers are significantly more misinformed than consumers of news from other sources. What’s more, the study shows that greater exposure to Fox News increases misinformation.

So the more you watch, the less you know. Or to be precise, the more you think you know that is actually false. This study corroborates a previous PIPA study that focused on the Iraq war with similar results. And there was an NBC/Wall Street Journal poll that demonstrated the break with reality on the part of Fox viewers with regard to health care. The body of evidence that Fox News is nothing but a propaganda machine dedicated to lies is growing by the day.

In eight of the nine questions below, Fox News placed first in the percentage of those who were misinformed (they placed second in the question on TARP). That’s a pretty high batting average for journalistic fraud. Here is a list of what Fox News viewers believe that just aint so:

• 91 percent believe the stimulus legislation lost jobs
• 72 percent believe the health reform law will increase the deficit
• 72 percent believe the economy is getting worse
• 60 percent believe climate change is not occurring
• 49 percent believe income taxes have gone up
• 63 percent believe the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts
• 56 percent believe Obama initiated the GM/Chrysler bailout
• 38 percent believe that most Republicans opposed TARP
• 63 percent believe Obama was not born in the U.S. (or that it is unclear)

The conclusion is inescapable. Fox News is deliberately misinforming its viewers and it is doing so for a reason. Every issue above is one in which the Republican Party had a vested interest. The GOP benefited from the ignorance that Fox News helped to proliferate. The results were apparent in the election last month as voters based their decisions on demonstrably false information fed to them by Fox News.

TNSEVOL........was asked for a sorce for his comment above on being dumber for watching Fox News. So......do search on...Fox News Dumber...and pick your website source, ther are numerous sites reporting studies done. Here is one from Alternet.org

Study Confirms That Fox News Makes You Stupid

A new survey of American voters shows that Fox News viewers are significantly more misinformed than consumers of news from other sources.

December 15, 2010 |

Advertisement

Yet another study has been released proving that watching Fox News is detrimental to your intelligence. World Public Opinion, a project managed by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland, conducted a survey of American voters that shows that Fox News viewers are significantly more misinformed than consumers of news from other sources. What’s more, the study shows that greater exposure to Fox News increases misinformation.

So the more you watch, the less you know. Or to be precise, the more you think you know that is actually false. This study corroborates a previous PIPA study that focused on the Iraq war with similar results. And there was an NBC/Wall Street Journal poll that demonstrated the break with reality on the part of Fox viewers with regard to health care. The body of evidence that Fox News is nothing but a propaganda machine dedicated to lies is growing by the day.

In eight of the nine questions below, Fox News placed first in the percentage of those who were misinformed (they placed second in the question on TARP). That’s a pretty high batting average for journalistic fraud. Here is a list of what Fox News viewers believe that just aint so:

• 91 percent believe the stimulus legislation lost jobs
• 72 percent believe the health reform law will increase the deficit
• 72 percent believe the economy is getting worse
• 60 percent believe climate change is not occurring
• 49 percent believe income taxes have gone up
• 63 percent believe the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts
• 56 percent believe Obama initiated the GM/Chrysler bailout
• 38 percent believe that most Republicans opposed TARP
• 63 percent believe Obama was not born in the U.S. (or that it is unclear)

The conclusion is inescapable. Fox News is deliberately misinforming its viewers and it is doing so for a reason. Every issue above is one in which the Republican Party had a vested interest. The GOP benefited from the ignorance that Fox News helped to proliferate. The results were apparent in the election last month as voters based their decisions on demonstrably false information fed to them by Fox News.

@ Skip Nicholson for say "By Losing we Win"

Skip, if your President was that smart we'd all love him. The truth is, he did'nt spent 2 years working on the Health Care to have it shot down to prove a point. Skip, if he did what would that tell you? Something else Skip, By Losing, you lose. You can't twist a defeat into a victory. Just something to think about.

I seriously cannot believe any Republican has a leg to stand on when the nominee they have put forward has created a simialr health plan for his state and is the poster child for what we have. What a bunch of hypocrites!!

Jen, You need to understand the difference between States rights and Federal authority. Romney, along with the majority of Republicans don't care what individual states do, and actually encourage states to handle their own issues. We very much do not like the Federal Government passing a one size fits all for the whole country, many of whom don't want anything to do with it. There are things the Federal government is in control of, but in general terms the less the better. Leave to states and their people to decide what is best for them, not politicians in Washington from California and New York telling us in the midwest how to live.

Sorry double post gremlins.......

I, too, would like to know what specifically the GOP has as an alternative. And while, it's a good idea, simply chanting "tort reform" a hundred times dost not a healthcare bill make...

logicreguired:

The "death panels" topic, (a "widely debunked claim," according to the LATimes, which received a lying "pants on fire" rating and was termed "lie of the year" by politifact.com) was brought up here by:

Joe-755363, with 23 votes, who wrote:

"Like how there are "death panels" (it's actually the section on the Elder Care Committee and how they will look at cost of care versus likelihood of cure when deciding if a treatment should be covered)."

Then willowbrook wrote:

"Palin has been correct all along concerning "death panels," and still [those associated with Obama] have not bothered to read up and LEARN."

Those are a couple examples here; Palin, again, is the main leader of the debunked term, bringing it up again yesterday, which, again,

"worked so well in 2009 as a way of marshaling opposition to President Obama’s healthcare reform law that Sarah Palin has revived her widely debunked claim [my italics] that the law will create "death panels" to determine which citizens are worthy of healthcare."-LATimes

Mr.Tom, The GOP has nothing, nada, zip, zero. oopso.

Why has this Health Care Reform been turned into a constitutional issue? Because your elected officials in Congress sat and did NOTHING.

This bill has nothing to do with government "forcing" you to do something you don't want to do, this is about health care and attempting to bring down cost, albeit a monumental task. For all those opposed to the government "making and forcing" you to do something you "feel" is beyond your democratic rights; I urge you to stop paying TAXES, lets see how well that flies? obviously, the government is making you do that too!

I don't hear anyone saying we should abolish MEDICARE. Why didn't people complain back then that was a bad idea? nobody said, gee whiz you're forcing health care down our throats! The current health care bill IS MEDICARE, but for people under 65, this isn't hard to get! If you want to save money, scrap MEDICARE, that will save trillions!

Providing sensible healthcare is a complicated task when trying to satisfy all parties, beaurocracies are immediately created.

The conclusion is inescapable. Fox News is deliberately misinforming its viewers and it is doing so for a reason. Every issue above is one in which the Republican Party had a vested interest. The GOP benefited from the ignorance that Fox News helped to proliferate. The results were apparent in the election last month as voters based their decisions on demonstrably false information fed to them by Fox News.

If 92 % of people believe that porkimulus lost jobs ,the conclusion is this ; Fox has the biggest audience and Fox is the most trusted news channel, nobody watch and trust MSNBC, CNN or any other news that carry the water for Obama. Good try

"are you better off than you were 4 years ago"

I am too. My earnings are up about 15%, my retirement funds have regained all they lost in 2007-2008 and more, I can now cover my two daughters in college (20 and 23) on my health insurance, my son doesn't have to stay at his crappy job only because my grandson has a preexisting condition (asthma) and wouldn't have health insurance, and my grandson himself can't be denied health insurance due to his preexisting condition when he's old enough to have to cover himself. And best of all, my patients who are mostly working poor, will now have options for access to healthcare through the state pools and the expansion of Medicaid that will greatly benefit them. Life is good!

You are the 1% . LOL

HOLDER...........appoint the special counsel NOW.....you may as well resign boy.

@ myguy - guess you can't read since you've only come up with more unsupported assumptions about me. Just to let you know. I am responsible for myself and I'm not blaming the govt. or the President. Just because you can't handle accurate identification, doesn't make me wrong. We need people in Washington who will create fiscal responsibility come hell or high water. Everyone who won't, needs to go. And when I say I am more conservative, don't put me into the wacko category. To clarify I am a FISCAL CONSERVATIVE. There is nothing wacko about that. Also, just to let you know, the small business I work for stayed in business in the last 4 years because we didn't do what the President said. We didn't max out our credit to create jobs when we had no product to produce. Oh yes, we have plenty of credit, we didn't need the govt. to tell the banks to lend to us.

RedDev posted

If the entire law is overturned: Small businesses will be back where they started in 2009. There will be no federally-required exchanges offering affordable coverage, although some states may continue to develop such exchanges. The restrictions on premiums and medical loss ratios have already helped small employers to hold down increases in coverage costs, but without those brakes, such costs may rapidly increase.

Small businesses would also lose the tax credits under the ACA.

In 2009 we had a PPO with half the deductible we are now have. That would be great!

The cost containing measures are not really happening, and contrary to what those with talking points about the ACA, we are not able to question the increase because we are a small business, this has not changed from before the ACA. Believe me, we have specifically questioned our increases the last 2 renewals and the companies don't have to for small groups.

The tax credit for small business has not incentivized small businesses to offer insurance nor has it significantly helped contain costs for small employers. The average credit is $1200. Let alone, in the case of many small businesses who are S or C corps, taxes are paid by the Officers of the company on their personal returns, so in essence, the credit is used as a reduction in estimated taxes for the next year. No actual money goes into the Health Care pot. Divide that $1200 amongst several officers and it really doesn't make much of a difference.

http://www.insurancenewsnet.com/article.aspx?id=343617&type=newswires

LogicReguired

"

Do you really think Obama spent his first two years paying of members of his own party to pass a bill that the Supreme court would strike down? I stand in awe of your ignorance.

It's a win-win for the president. If ACA passes, and is held constitional, then he had a great legislative victory.

If it's deemed unconsitutional, then they go back to the drawing board and the only viable option remaining is a single-payer system.

The SCOTUS can strike down ACA, but the need for Health Care Reform doesn't go away, if anything it makes it more urgent.

The GOP has nothing left except a voucher system which is widely unpopular, espeically if they have to tamper with Medicare in the process.

I'm don't believe that the president pushed ACA with the sole intent of getting a public option, but it will prove to be a complex strategy with multiple ways to win.

You have a National Health care program, a Single Payer health care program, its called Medicare. Look how well the Federal Government runs Medicare as an example of why the Federal Government needs to stay out of health care.

Except that Medicare has a far better benefits to expense ratio than any insurance company, for 2 reasons:
1) Medicare negotiates fees for medical procedures, helping to keep down costs. Few insurers bother to negotiate rates, instead they simply pass the cost on in the premiums.
2) Medicare has far lower overhead and administrative costs because it doesn't pay dividends to shareholders like insurance companies do, and it doesn't pay multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses to top executives like insurance companies do.

So to really cut the cost of medical care, extend Medicare style coverage to everyone.

Like how there are "death panels" (it's actually the section on the Elder Care Committee and how they will look at cost of care versus likelihood of cure when deciding if a treatment should be covered).

Nope, no "death panels", that's just a nasty rumor from the right-wing libel machine. It is actually insurance companies that sometimes deny certain medical treatments based on the costs.

Now there are provisions to monitor the effectiveness of various treatments so that treatments that are proven to be useless and ineffective can be eliminated. That saves money without risking lives - and it may save lives, if someone avoids wasting time on useless treatments and chooses an effective treatment instead.

Hospice is great. They are angels. Nursing homes are nothing but cement boxes keeping failing people alive. Most never get out to see the light. Few have visitors. The food is awful. They are waiting to die. We need to address end of life needs NOW because the longer we wait the worse it will get since our demographics are getting older.

Now here's the irony - there was a proposal to provide hospice care and end-of-life counseling to help the terminally ill deal with their bleak situation, but that caring and helpful proposal was eliminated. Why? Because the Teapublicans lied about it and called it a "death panel" that would counsel suicide to the elderly!

Reporting from Washington — The Obama administration will not implement a new program to provide Americans with long-term-care insurance, abandoning a controversial part of the healthcare overhaul the president signed last year.

VERBS…

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America".

The preamble of the Constitution tells us its purpose. There are five specific
objectives and how the Constitution is to handle these is identified by the verbs associated with such. All of the verbs but one indicates that the Constitution is to without question establish, insure, provide and secure, justice, peace, defense, and liberty. The one where the Constitution says the government is to only Promote is that of general Welfare. That leads me to believe that if the Government mandates anything that is outside of the 4 areas prescribed it is in violation of the Constitution. General welfare would include such things as Health Care. By its own definition the Constitution should only allow the government to Promote such.

The SCOTUS should strike down the Healthcare law. The Government can promote, suggest, and encourage but by no means mandate a General Welfare item such as healthcare or the insurance to pay for it.

Verbs are the words that tell us what we can and cannot do. They are the borders upon which actions are defined. When reading documents such as constitutions, contracts, and legislation always pay attention to the VERBS!

The argument that we should have Universal Health Care because other nations do is a rediculous statement. Should we be socialist because so many other countries are? Should our courts assume guilt until proven innocent as so many other countries do? Should we ban so many of our freedoms that America enjoys simply because others do not? America is America because we are different. We are not the followers we are the Leaders of the would. We are supposed to show a better way.

If MSN is reporting on this Poll, I would have to say that it looks good for WE the Majority of the PEOPLE. Just remember anything can happen.

Yes, but it is getting far more difficult for the liberal media to gloss over Obama's pitiful leadership of our country. Sooner or later common sense wins out. (we seen that in 2010)

Backhouse - So your OK with the fact that around 10 million would still be without health care?

Skup.. Pins dropping, crickets....I can hear them.

If MSN is reporting on this Poll, I would have to say that it looks good for WE the Majority of the PEOPLE. Just remember anything can happen.

CC - 37% is not a majority!!!

Poll reveals little more than just how stupid the American people truly are.

Remember polls and pollsters can be presented in such a way to get the response the pollster wants. As a finance major in college I learned that and we did extensive research that proved that point.

Further, if Americans simply stopped listening to the media, and started doing their own research they would see that the act was a good start in fixing this mess. As a cancer survivor, I am praying for a miracle.

Well said Irene-1 !

I am rooting for You. And please keep posting.

Folks are getting dumbed down and lied to, like no there's tomorrow, by post-truth politics and media.

and this is a story because MSNBC didn't know this already??

I think NBC should run a poll asking how many people think the government should stay out of medicare. Just to see if they realize if it's government ran or not.

Remember polls and pollsters can be presented in such a way to get the response the pollster wants.

irenermiscione-1 - Are you saying that NBC ran a poll with questions designed to slant the answers to the right?

The lefties here are just like Obama and the Dems in DC. They don't give a hoot about what the majority of our citizens want. They think they know what's better for us and we should just shutup and take it.

While mot people in this country recognize that we need to do something about the cost of health care in this country, they also do not feel that he current law is the answer. People are not at all comfortable with the idea of the federal government forcing people to do business with a private company. If the government is allowed to tell yo that you have to do business with a health insurance company then what will be the next thing the government feels that you should have to buy from another private company. People also realize that the current law is completely unaffordable. The law would end up costing the taxpayer over one trillion dollars to implement and still would not provide coverage for everyone. Many people are also concerned that even with the subsidies they still will not be able to afford health insurance. This means that they still will not have insurance and will end up getting hit with a penalty that makes their situation even worse on top of it. The idea that the government can penalize a person for not buying something from a private company just does not sit well with the majority of people in this country. I hope that this POS la is struck down in it's entirety by the Supreme Court.

I am confused, from what I understand, Obamacare = Romneycare = GOP health care plan from before.

What change? Is it because Obama want it?

skup,

So having 45million unisured is better than having 10million uninsured?

To say that the law should be overturned because it is imperfect is a joke. Laws are written by human beings, imperfect in and of themselves. To expect their product to be perfect beggars belief. The Founding Fathers who wrote the Constitution were not perfect, not the trail of Amendments to "fix" it.

As well people should oppose anything along the lines of an individual mandate, or granting the government the power to force people to buy a private product under penalty of fine. I'd rather prices go up, then the government be given this power along with whatever precedent it could help send for the relationship between private citizens, and private corporations at large.

A public health insurance program, which is payed for by tax dollars, would be preferably to allowing the gov't to mandate what products people have to buy from private firms. It would also be far more honest then calling it private, but forcing business associations between private parties, who might not otherwise have that sort of monetary relationship... In fact, it's this sort of proposal, which would justify a revolution, whether people would chose to have one or not, if taken to it's ultimate conclusion. The very precedent this mandate would establish flies absolutely in the face of the principle of a FREE market.

Turning something over to private companies, but forcing people to become their customer under penalty of law, is NOT A FREE MARKET, and corporate socialism would be no less the thing that quakes like a duck and walks like a duck, then the same sort of thing if the gov't ran the program. A corporate controlled state, where the laws are set out to force people to buy anything that might be deemed "good for them", would be no less disgusting then a situation in which it is centralized under gov't hands. And the latter, at least wouldn't have this dangerious precedent that could then be applied to other markets also.... Take consumer sovergnty out of the market, and a capitilist market is not a FREE market any longer. It can only remain free, if both parties are free to agree to certain trade terms, OR NOT TO AGREE, hence withold business...

I agree. If only the government would listen to what the people want, but how often does that happen? If they truly want to help us, they would reform healthcare, not add another problem. Healthcare insurance companies should not be allowed to pick and choose who they give coverage to, nor should they be allowed to pick and choose what they cover, especially things that are deemed necessary.

I guess I'd just rather die. That's what my insurance company wants.

I can't get covered for the meds my doctor wants, only for what the insurance (I pay over $7K a year for) will allow me. No death panels here.

Keep the government's hands off my Medicare!!!

Y'all r losing track of the fact that TAXPAYERS are gonna b footing the bill anyway, so whats the big deal? OBAMAs castrating MEDICARE,to pay for OBAMACARE, robbing peter to pay paul. IF people' health problems are their fault, smoking, obesity, diabetes, stupidity, why is that MY problem? THE FREE RIDE is OVER we cant afford to take care of you! if you dont take care of yourself why should we take care of you?

Poll results show that there are still a lot of people who have no understanding of or interest in the Affordable Health Care Law and would rather just spout dribble and vote against their best self interest.

Polls have also shown that a majority of the public want most if not all of the components of the health care law when it is presented without reference to President Obama.

The voices on the right that are complaining the most must not have health insurance now and would rather go to the emergency room to have their "cold sores" treated and leave the bill to those of us who do have insurance. Otherwise, why would they be so worried about the mandate (the mandate originally proposed by a group of 6 Republicans)?

Seriously, who do they "poll?"

People at home, during the day, with landlines?

Maybe that has something to do with the poll "results."

If it is repealed.

One pool tax based that provides say 60% of cost for all citizens and then you pay the rest out of pocket or via health insurance plan.

It's flexible. Want lower taxes lower the amount of large pool. The fact still remains it is the law of large numbers. The choice. Is either they work for you or for someone else. Larger the pool the lower the cost is.

Kiss (keep it simple stupid)

Then we can stop demonizing and start prioritizing by placing all in the equation.

Health Insurance or no Health Insurance - I'm still going to ER.

My hernia surgery 3 months ago came to around $60,000.00 (more than I owe on my home), I had no problem covering the deductible - take away my right to Health Insurance and I'm just going to default on the payment (screw those who want to screw me). Take what I can give or get nothing - you do the math.

This article (and every article at Fox) is how you dumb down America - stop blaming the schools - they don't make you read (and listen) to the propaganda that the Jewish owned media feeds you.

Here's a good 'rule of thumb'. If 'Feisty' has the first Post (which is normal on msnbc), you might want to skip to #2 to make a comment to avoid being 'collapsed' with her.

UAWPleeeeeeease Maybe Obama should have listened to the American people before he spent 2 years pushing this turd through congress. Here's a hint when you have to bribe politicians from your own party to vote for this crap it's a bad idea. Let's vote for a better leader in 2012!

President Obama did listen to the American people, that's how he was elected, because he promised to do something about the health care system. McCain was business as usual. People where out for change. They got it. I for one like the new Health care plan, mainly because my children can stay on it until 26 and can't be denied because of existing issues. As far as bribing, I don't know where you came up with that. If any bribing went on, it was the Republicans trying to buy Democratic votes to stop the bill. Oh wait, that didn't work either, the bill passed even though the Republicans tried to dummy it down. Can't wait for November when they kick all the Republicans out of the House and we can finally get something done around here.

Most likely outcome on Obamacare;

Parts will be ruled unconstitutional (including the key provision of an individual mandate), but parts of it will be upheld. The only problem with that is it makes the entire plan unworkable and will force astronomical increases in insurance premiums.

Then it will be necessary for Congress to start fresh and re-write the law.

I found it interesting that Justice Roberts sided with the Liberal Justices on the Arizona law (outlawing some parts but allowing the most important 'papers please' provision to stand).

I have to wonder if he made a deal with some of the Liberal Justices to support rejecting the individual mandate on Obamacare to avoid a 5-4 'split decision'.

Time will tell.

DarkShadows quote "Working doesn't keep the health insurance companies from denying coverage because of pre-existing conditions, or just because you become a liability to them"

Got news for you shadows, it doesn't make any difference. NOTHING in this health care bill does anything about the COST of pre-existing conditions. You've bought a PACK OF LIES!!! This is quite personal to me. OK, so they can't "drop you", so that's the end of it for thinkers like you. How about this then, Allstate or whomever, can still raise your rates to whatever the hell they would like. Pre cancer $400 a month, after cancer diagnosis $1940 a month. NOTHING stops them from doing that. Sell stupid elsewhere, this "bill" does nothing to control costs, nor keep ambulance chasers at bay, get into the huge problem of medicare or medicaid fraud, which is out of control, not one thing in this bill does anything to control the out of control costs of health care.

If it weren't for all the damn poor people, we'd all be republicans. Now to just figure out how to get rid of the democrats and independants. Taking away healthcare services is a start.

Crematories, the next big industry of tomorrow. Make your investments today.

Roy, interesting but do we really want Supreme Court Justices to play politics at the Supreme Court level?

Dont we have enough politicians already, and keep in mind Supreme Court Justices are not voted into office.

Americans are idiots. We deserve to be raped by big business and abused by money grubbing corporate cuture, and stepped on by the elite finance world, and manipulated by the republican sellouts.

If there is a God, I'll live long enough to see this nation truly crumble under the weight of neo conservatism, bigoted idiocy, foolish faux news, and corrupted complacency. And, if there's a devil, I myself will be filthy rich by that time, exploiting the idiocy of the Fox Nuts, teabaggers, and misinformed masses by then.

Maybe I should invest more into firearms and ammunition sales and manufacturing. I haven't done that in a while. Faux News and it's ilk are doing good keeping lawmakers off it's corporate gun industry master's backs while many merchants are able to smuggl.... flood Mexico with weapons and occasionally panic idiotic middle-America into stocking up on ammo for no reason whatsoever. Business is definitely good for them right now.

To say that it should be overturned because no one knows whats in it is a bad idea is ludicrous at best. Even the people that wrote it claim they don't know what's in it. It should be THROWN OUT based on that alone.

Remember Nancy Pelosi's famous words, "We have to pass it to see what's in it."

Roy, they need to dump the whole thing and start over. Re-instintute the parts that americans really want like, . . . . .

Well, I was going to say no life-time maximum, but that only needs leveled against employers who were choosing the low maximums for the employees to keep the cost down.

No-Pre-existing condition plans must be offered by all health insureres of a certain size, not just the handful we had before the ACA.

Well mikela, you touched on an interesting point. What groups are predominately democrats?

Wouldn't that be minorities and the poor?

Assuming that they are not stupid, wouldn't it be to the democrats advantage to keep as many people poor as possible and to prevent the minorities from assimilating with the rest of the americans?

Wow, I need to be slapped, forgot all about unions! Ah well, more of the same.

To which citizens has obama given most of his support? Think stimulus and gm. You're out of work and not a member of a union, too bad.

This all comes down to semantics and the politicians conundrum of not wanting to go on record as "raising taxes".

The way the individual mandate works is by raising everyones Income Tax by a set amount, say $500. Then when you file your return you get a tax credit for $500 for having health insurance. This leaves those who get a policy with a net increase of $0 and the remainin funds raised through the Income Tax increase go to off set the cost of providing healthcare to the unemployeed. If they had done it that way, it would have been legal - but not popular since Obama pledged not to raise taxes on those making under a certain amount ($250k? I think?). Of course those impacted are most likley making incomes that fall below that line, Rich people are hardly without the means to purchase a private insurance plan.

So rather than go on record as having increased taxes on the middle class, he decided to make a political move and put it out there as a "mandate" and "penalty" if you fail to adhere to the mandate. This is an abuse of Federal powers because, as others posted, it essentially is a law forcing you to purchase something from a private vendor.

Here's the lesson to politicians. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't raise taxes and go on record as not raising taxes. I would have more respect for Obama if he had simply done it honestly instead of showing contempt for the Intellegence of the American people by intentionally being duplicitous.

The other part about the bill is that it does very little to address the real concern - that is the cost of healthcare. By focusing on having people insured, you are really only addressing the means by which we pay for healthcare. You are not addressing the underlying reason why it costs so much for CT scan or an emergency visit. I had a care accident several years ago and was taken to the ER to be checked out. Before doing any X-rays they gave me a pregnancy test (generic EPT) because I told them thay my husband and I had been trying for a baby. It came back that I was pregnant so they sent me home and told me I could take a Tylenol for any discomfort and follow up with my OB/GYN in the morning. They billed my insurance carrier over $5,000 not including the physicians fee that was billed seperately. For a home pregnancy test that cost $10. Why??

DB Akron "Roy, they need to dump the whole thing and start over. Re-instate the parts that americans really want like, . . . . ."

Agreed. Here is my preference;

Bite the bullet and pass universal health care with the following provisions;

- All legal residents are covered - no exclusions for 'pre-existing conditions'.
- Everyone has the same basic coverage plan - established by Congress.
- Paid for with a combination of employer/employee and a Natl. sales tax.
- Malpractice covered by a Worker's Comp type system.

- Administered by private insurance companies (the government is too inefficient).
- Every insurer must offer a basic plan, but additional coverage available if paid by individual 'out of pocket'' - Not tax deductible.

That's the way it's done in the rest of the industrialized World, and it works well at about half the cost of our current system, with better health outcomes.

Addendum to my Post #2.42;

- Those with unhealthy lifestyles (specifically smokers, drug users and the obese) will pay a surcharge (out of pocket and commensurate with the estimated extra cost) to encourage better health.

- Uninsured foreign immigrants who abuse our emergency rooms will be immediately subject to deportation after their condition is minimally stabilized.

The X

Americans are idiots. We deserve to be raped by the Government and abused by money grubbing opportunists, and stepped on by the elite intellectuals of the world, and manipulated by the progressive movement into giving away our freedoms so some other entity can reward and protect us.

"They billed my insurance carrier over $5,000 not including the physicians fee that was billed seperately. For a home pregnancy test that cost $10. Why??"

Why? Because you left your health care in the complete hands of strangers (Not blaming you just pointing it out)

If we got rid of the insurance covering everything and ran it more like car or dental insurance they would have asked you if you would be willing to take a $5000 test, I would you would say heck no and went and got the test yourself.
Most complain about the wall street bailouts but expect the insurance companies to bail us out every day. That is why health insurance cost continue to raise.

Roy? LOL

I disagree with you!?

I think having both ways keeps all honest. Partial universal partial competition. Partial collective partial personal responsibility.

Cost keeps the E.R. For emergencies. Among many other reasons.

Checks and balance.

I have had insurance 8 months in the last 12 years. I have always worked.
I am not concerned for myself.
But I have been told in the time of need that I "fit the wrong ethnic category" it was suggested to me "sell your car and quit school"..

Nope roy, won't work. The group with the highest percentage of obesity is poverty. If you think that you're going to get any surcharge out of them, dream on?

What would do us all some good is to abolish the dope laws. It would take a load off us taxpayers, reduce turf killings and cut down on the amount that the dope heads have to steal to satisfy their addictions.

1) This is in no way health care reform. It is just health insurance reform.

2) No employers with over 50 people will offer health insurance anymore. The penalty will be less than the health coverage for employees.

3) You will have to pay your health premiums with after tax dollars.

4) The biggest question is if companies who opt to take the penalty and offer no insurance will those companies pay their employees more to compensate for not offering insurance, and will they give raises that would compensate for rising insurance costs? I'm betting not. So employees that currently are getting part, if not their whole insurance premium, paid for will have to come up with that money for insurance.

5) They still haven't fixed the health care problem, the cost of health care.

6) Can anyone say tort reform?

7) I really don't want the gov't dictating my health insurance based on politics and elections, but it looks like people just aren't smart enough to figure that out and want the gov't to hold their hand in every difficult decistion they make in life. Health insurance, mortgages, the list goes on and on.

Hootgif

The government is you! It is by the people for the people.

If you don't believe that to be true, the only person you can blame is yourself.

By the way I am guilty of the same.

@ Roy Wilson #s 2.42-2.43: I wholeheartedly agree with you. Regards

@lanakai ron,
Fascism is indeed growing, but what makes you think it and you are the majority?

Romney and repubs have no plan...except to take the economy down as they pledged.

The first economic plan from the republicans ...was to blow up the economy so president Obama would not have a second term. Newt said it was the first seed sown for the 2012 election. 14-15 republicans secretly met the dat after Obama took office to pledge to vote against every bill that would help the economy recover. They pledged this saying they wanted him to be a one term president. They pledged to take the economy down just to destroy the presidents plans for recovery. Bin Laden wrote down the same plan and executed 911 to take the economy down to destroy the nation. These repubs, Ryan, Cantor, DeMint, and Gingrich pledged to act like the Taliban, to act like the insurgents do,(their own actual words) to prevent President Obama from a second term. Acting like the supreme terrorist of all time Bin Laden. Traitors. Deliberately sabotaging the recovery. Ref Richard draper new book.

Ryan repub Plan...Kills socoial security and medicare. Repubs want to destroy the Post Office and privatize that also.......Take down America and give more tax breaks to the rich 1%. Romney for a worse tomorrow tomorrow.

Vote President Obama/Biden 2012

ROY WILSON-336103

Most likely outcome on Obamacare;

Parts will be ruled unconstitutional (including the key provision of an individual mandate), but parts of it will be upheld. The only problem with that is it makes the entire plan unworkable and will force astronomical increases in insurance premiums.

Then it will be necessary for Congress to start fresh and re-write the law.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You may seems confused about the individual mandate matters that in Consitution .Let it be Clear,,that Social Security,Medicaare,Mediaid,Massachusetts are ALL MANDATED program.

SCOTUS can't say an amendment is unconstitutional, but they can interpret the constitution in such a way that it renders the part of the constitution as ineffective. So in reality, yes they can do this.

SENARIOS WILL BE THIS

A part of the US Constitution would only be invalid (as in this case the (MANDATED PROGRAM) if it is consistent with another since Obama care and willardcare are identical with the rest of mandated proram. .The Scotus decides to struck out this Mandated matters,Then all Mandated Program Like Social Seurity,Mediaid,Medicare need to be Invalid too! How this can Happen? All Money collected by IRS as tax, Its legal Amendment of US Constitution.This what I said Scotus has NO authority .

IF they were ever asked to do so in his power, the SCOTUS could declare the Eighteenth Amendment now invalid, since it is inconsistent with the Twenty-First Amendment (which repealed it).

Repeal all the Mandated program,I dont see that's smart move as An Options for Scotus,That Wont happned as it might taken Years of Repeals .The Congress wont allow it in first place.

The Both Congress has NO CHOICE in joint resolution adopting Amendment and proposing to impreach All the SCOTUS , Like any other measure enacted by Congress amendments.

@FrankH - You are onto something here. I think that is the same reason we ended up with Obama as President.

Well keep in mind that the AVERAGE IQ is set at 100---so 50% are below that.

To all you healthy republicans. If the law gets shot down, I hope none of you gets sick, It would be funny when some of you get sick and then the insurance company drops you. Than you lose everything. You will be wishing that the was still in place. I'm a cancer survivor, to get insurance from Blue Cross Blue Shield one has to be 10 years in remission before they will look at you. Now thats real American. The best part when you go to the insurance pool guess who runs it? Blue Cross Blue Shield. The rates are real high and when you turn 50 they go even higher. Now thats real American. So the way it looks all you in the republican/tea bag party don't care about anyone else but yourselves, or thats the perception you give. It makes you look like heartless bastards

And all you Dems care aout is someone else taking care of your problems.

"AFL-CIO

@FrankH - You are onto something here. I think that is the same reason we ended up with Obama as President."

AFL-CIO - It is because people elected the idiot boy BUSH not once but twice. This is the reason why we are in the mess we are right now. This is the reason why FrankH-1860605 is correct and not for any other reason, and it looks like AFL-CIO is a proud member of the large group of idiots as well. country.

In most cases, majority is not the right one. Let's look at history, majority wants slavery, marriage license to prevent inter-racial and inter-faith marriage, women at home and more.

@ AFL-CIO

By your logic, Bush is not the right one either and if Romney gets elect, he is not the right one either.

Smitty, Having insurance for myself and family is enough to afford. Obamacare is a thinly disguised attempt to make me responsible for everyone else, whether or not they have had the brains to take care of themselves or were just alcoholics and crack addicts. Obamacare required everyone must buy, but those who "could not afford" (wink wink) would be SUBSIDIZED ...... heellloooo welfare !

Yes, once again, Obama is merely trying to redistribute the wealth through this crappy legislation. Take this legislation and put it back in the horse !

Joe-1813276,

That would be the median not the mean (average)...

Jim,

Not having "Obamacare" is the thinly veiled attempt to make you responsible for everyone else....

When someone doesn't have insurance, who pays for their ER visit? You and I

When someone is forced to buy insurance, who pays for their ER visit? The insurer (and we don't have to kick in as much because they are paying for their own premiums now!)

camo jack And all you Dems care about is someone else taking care of your problems.

I hope you never get sick to have to see what I'm talking about. But than again the experience may do you some good to see what I'm talking about. This also is for you jim see 3.8

Camo-

What makes you think that I and people like me have no health insurance?

beadarg and the rest of you Obama followers

I'd take Bush back anytime. Obama is such a failure and he is wasting our time on BS. He takes all of his hair brained ideas and tries to force them on us.

Obama's great ideas that have wasted our time:

Sackett v. EPA - rejected by the court

United States v. Jones - court disagreed unanimously with Obama

Hosanna-Tabor v. EEOC - Obama lost again

According to the Washungton Post: "there have been a string of high profile losses in which the governmnet has FAILED to win the vote of a single justice - liberal or conservative."

Now we will see what happens to Obamacare.

This adminstration needs to go.

Camo Jack,

No, we care about people having the opportunity to succeed. Health issues and health-care costs are one of the largest causes of personal (and business bankruptcies) in this country. Think of how Steve Jobs death would have affected Apple, had he died 10 or 15 years earlier. Despite the costs, many employers find that their employees are more productive and more reliable if they have adequate insurance for themselves and their families.

By the way, contrary to what many like you believe, the word "common" (as in common good or common defence) is prominent in the Constitution.

Public education (government taking over what had been a private endeavor) was mandated by the Northwest Territory Act. Public education was a common good that society recognized would benefit all of society. But, interestingly, the southern slave states made it a crime to teach black people to read and write, as a means of continuing to dominate the slaves.

Perhaps we ought to look at those today as seeking to dominate and suppress their poor populations by denying them basic security.

Seriously, who do they "poll?"

People at home, watching Faux News, during the day, with landlines?

Maybe that has something to do with the poll "results."

jim,

"a thinly disguised attempt to make me responsible for everyone else". If you had paid any attention at all over the past couple of years you would know that you already are being held responsible for the uninsured.

To say that you would be responsible for "everyone else" is just plain uninformed. The majority of the population has health insurance now, Subsidies would be based on income levels, so the cost would not be covered completely for the majority of recipients.

JH,

And what makes you think that these SCOTUS decisions are not politically inspired? SCOTUS is just as partisan as the House or the Senate. Historically, the Court has reflected more the politics of the day than a statement of right vs. wrong, or even the Constitution. Slaves are free, but you can continue to treat them as slaves. You cannot discriminate (unless you do it carefully) but you can segregate. And Franklin Roosevelt's programs to build dams, roads parks and public buildings (to lift the US out of the Depression) were judged unConstitutional, despite the fact that we continue to enjoy miles of these roads, use the post offices, admire the art, and recreate in places like Mt. Rushmore, Yellowstone, the Great Smokies National Park, and receive electricity from the Hoover Dam. As those programs were ended as a result of that decision, the country plunged into an even deeper Depression relieved only by the production of war goods beginning in 1939-1940.

Remember the sole goal or Republican leadership is not to act in the interest of the country, but to insure that Barack Obama is a one-term President. The current Court is 5-4 Republican conservative in background, and most of its decisions reflect that fact.

Interestingly, the Court has recently ruled that unions cannot use their general funds for political purposes. Only funds voluntarily contributed by the rank and file may be used. However, the same court, the same day, said that corporate leaders may use any corporate funds for political purposes, without limits. So the UAW is ham-strung, while Catepillar can spend millions of share-holder dollars without review.

Bull@!$%# vwterry and cut the crap with the "uninformed" garbage.

Obamacare removes maximum payouts which will and HAS raised costs.

Obamacare now brings in millions more who were prev uncovered raising costs.

Obamacare has removed pre-existing conditions which raises costs.

Obamacare has expanded mandated coverages which raises costs.

Obamacare installs about 159 new bureaucracies to administer ...raising costs.

Obamacare will be subsidizing those who "cannot afford" .... raising costs.

NOTHING in Obamacare reduces costs ! Do you want more ?

Smitty's quote "To all you healthy republicans. If the law gets shot down, I hope none of you gets sick, It would be funny when some of you get sick and then the insurance company drops you. Than you lose everything. You will be wishing that the was still in place. I'm a cancer survivor, to get insurance from Blue Cross Blue Shield one has to be 10 years in remission before they will look at you. Now thats real American. The best part when you go to the insurance pool guess who runs it? Blue Cross Blue Shield. The rates are real high and when you turn 50 they go even higher. Now thats real American. So the way it looks all you in the republican/tea bag party don't care about anyone else but yourselves, or thats the perception you give. It makes you look like heartless bastards"

Boy Smitty, you sure have bought the lies dude. Sorry about your diagnosis, better days I hope. Well my friend they still have you by the short hairs, because your dreaming of what HRA can actually do for you, which unless you work within a companies health care situation your still on your own. If you are self employed or retired and not on Medicare your toast. BCBS can raise your rates under this law as high as THEY deem necessary, got it? If your paying $500 a month, they can raise it to $2000, not one thing in this bill prevents that. Nothing. Oh yeah, they "can't drop you", but they can send you a bill you can not pay. So hows Obama's bill working for you now?

Bill Marvel

What don't you understand about a UNANIMOUS? Some decisions are split but this clown is getting more unanimous decisions thrown at him that he needs to be thrown out.

So if Bill Marvel doesn't like the decision from our Supreme Court it doesn't count?? Typical Obama supporter. This country is in trouble if he gets another term.

JH,

Unanimous decisions against what again?

The EPA and EEOC cases were laws and regulations established under earlier administrations, like GW Bush. There is a continuity of the fact that when one President replaces another, all the existing law does not go away. And some of the decisions were not based on the basic law itself, but in specific application or notification procedures, mandating further regulations or laws to define intent or scope, not absolve the actual crime.

For people who are without insurance now, this law would be ok, I guess. For my family, it's our worst nightmare.

My spouse is a 3 time cancer survivor, and I work in healthcare so I know what's on it's way having been through the ridiculousness brought about by Part D Medicare. The hoops needed to jump through are UNBELIEVEABLE.

I will readily admit that our current system needs changing, but ACA is NOT the answer. Bottom line, there is a bell curve for everything and the outliers on one side will hardly ever use any resources. Outliers on the other side, like my spouse (whose cancer is of an rare and deadly embryonic nature so no lung cancer from smoking or anything like that) will need constant care and in the end, will lose out.

Especially in an economy like this, the resources are finite. We know what it takes to get authorizations for tests, drugs, etc., and it is not easy or pretty. No one will EVER be able to convince me that the sheer numbers of people who will become enrolled in this monstrosity will make it a more beneficial thing for my spouse to get care in a timely fashion. With each new tumor comes surgery, treatment, and the PET scans, CTs, and MRIs start all over again and have to be done every 3, then 6, then 12 months.

My point is, I see how the fight over "death panels" has lead to the recommendations for cancer screenings to be stretched out by years, and the insurance companies will certainly use these new guidelines to stall as long as possible to keep from paying anything out, especially for testing, which is critical for us. After all, if they follow the new guidelines, they can't be responsible for paying for an illness that hasn't been found yet, right? This is a key ploy to avoid accusations over "rationing" healthcare.

In the time it will take us to get approvals through all this mess, my spouse could be dead (one of the top pathologists in the nation said she was stunned this patient was even still alive) because of the cancer type. Some may think "oh, that's too bad, but it's only one person and it sounds like he is circling the drain anyway", but just wait until it happens to you or a family member!

At least now I can sue our insurance company if they fail to treat in an appropriate, timely fashion and something adverse (death) happens. Under ACA, who is accountable? The government? The insurance company? They will point fingers back and forth as my young children and I stand over a grave.

In the end, society will lose out because a brilliant, productive, kind, and giving citizen who is so tough they work even while receiving chemo will no longer be around to contribute taxes, time at church, or assistance to NUMEROUS charities. Some people may not be concerned about this happening to one or two here and there, but my young kids and I are.

Jcb Well my friend you never had to see about getting insurance after cancer, I have. I'm also self-employed. Unless BCBS changed their policy on cancer coverage. That I don't know because. I've never been back to BCBS. United Health Care its 5 years. I've been there a$$hole. If anyone is lies its you. Ask anyone else who was in the same place as I.

Better yet anyone else been in the same place as I, lets hear your story.

Smitty, see my comment above.

My spouse is also self-employed. We pay $750/mo on a state plan for self-employed JUST FOR 1 PERSON. We had same experience w/ BCBS. Would rather pay through the nose than the alternative of waiting so long it's too late under government mandates.

There are solutions, but just as with immigration, the economy and, of course, healthcare, politicians on BOTH sides will continue to pit Americans against one another so they don't have to do their jobs. They are counting on divisiveness. EVERYBODY'S time would be better spent holding ALL politicians accountable for what they accomplish, rather than fighting amongst ourselves.

toughcrowd, my heart goes out to you. The mindless masses see this as a panacea of health care for all, nothing could be further from the truth. You explained it well. But to make a direct point, I'll tell you about a situation that can and will happen so often after this monstrosity remains. Pre-existing condition, they supposedly can't "drop you", but what they can do is send you a bill you can not pay, nothing in this bill prevents that. Pre cancer monthly cost from United Healthcare $380, after cancer diagnosis the monthly bill is raised to $1940, they didn't drop you, they dropped the bomb on you.

Smittys quote "Jcb Well my friend you never had to see about getting insurance after cancer, I have. I'm also self-employed. Unless BCBS changed their policy on cancer coverage. That I don't know because. I've never been back to BCBS. United Health Care its 5 years. I've been there a$$hole. If anyone is lies its you. Ask anyone else who was in the same place as I.

Better yet anyone else been in the same place as I, lets hear your story"

I try to be nice wishing you well, and you call me names. Please use spell check next time. How do you know that I haven't been right beside you Smitty? You don't, your anger and rage are very telling. I know plenty of people just like you Smitty, but Obama's plan does nothing for you, because you are self-employed. that's what you wrote. I wish you good luck finding insurance you can afford because your buddy in the White House left you high and dry. His bill does nothing to curb you being priced out of the market, I feel for you. I do know this, my insurance has gone up 30% since Obama took office, as healthcare stocks have hit record highs. He is not your friend Smitty, he is your enemy, but you've drank the koolaid, unfortunately for you, you live in Jonestown, with the part of Jim Jones being played by President Obama.

Sure heathcare needs reform but the ACa isn't answer it seems. But so many on here have the answer...what the f...? So many are so damn smart why are y'all sitting in front of the PC typing, you should be in D.C. getting something done...oh I get it smart enough to get online and can type but beyond that y'all are just opinions...you know kinda like @!$%#s.

AFL-CIO "@FrankH - You are onto something here. I think that is the same reason we ended up with Obama as President."

That reminds me of a joke;

Did you hear the one about the 30-something woman with an ivy league college degree who has been unemployed for over a year? She applied for a job at a California lemon grove. The foreman reviewed her resume and said “That’s quite an impressive resume, but, do you have any experience picking lemons?” She replied “As a matter of fact, I do. I’ve been divorced three times and I voted for Barack Obama for President.”

alclinicalresearcher

Jim,

Not having "Obamacare" is the thinly veiled attempt to make you responsible for everyone else....

When someone doesn't have insurance, who pays for their ER visit? You and I

When someone is forced to buy insurance, who pays for their ER visit? The insurer (and we don't have to kick in as much because they are paying for their own premiums

The problem of you and I paying for everyone elses visit to the ER is the liberal legislation that forced hospitals to treat everyone without regard to their ability to pay! That is the root of the problem right there. Why fix the original problem with a worse problem? that seems to be the way the liberal mind works, make a law, people find a way to take advantage of it, then they make another even worse law to try and 'fix' the original. People will still find ways to cheat the system even with the changes! What 'fix' will be put in place then? We cannot afford all this meddling, if people don't want to take care of themselves, let them die, that's as simple as it gets.

Why can't people be a little more responsible for themselves? If you gamble on your health, you are more than likely to lose! If you lose the gamble, other people in this society shouldn't be required to pick up your tab.

Get insurance, be responsible!

JCB,

Yes, I am aware of what is coming in terms of the pre-existing conditions issue. What people don't see is WHY.

The thought of not being dropped is great for cancer survivors and is actually the ONE thing I could go for under this bill because of our situation.

HOWEVER, I beg people to stop and think about everyone out there with heart disease and type-2 diabetes that will cease to make attempts at becoming healthier because they know they will be covered. It is a healthcare disaster waiting to happen. As I said, I work in healthcare and see countless people disregard their health because they think that they will be able to just take a magic pill for everything.

If there was a way to divide preexisting conditions into 2 groups such as those who have something genetic or by no fault of their own and those who have preventable diseases because they fail to care for themselves properly, it would be more fair to charge the latter group more. Unfortunately, then you will get lawsuits by fast-food fiends claiming they were genetically predisposed to such problems, and the beat of no self-accountability goes on.

Too bad this is so far down in the thread that hardly anyone will see it. People need to know how politicians are selling us out.

JH-479998 "beadarg and the rest of you Obama followers - I'd take Bush back anytime."

Oh for the 'Good old days' of Bush when the jobless rate averaged 5.33% for 8 years, the economy grew an average of 5.8% per year and the Deficits averaged only $251 Billion per year.

justredd64,

Your comment:

"Sure heathcare needs reform but the ACa isn't answer it seems. But so many on here have the answer...what the f...? So many are so damn smart why are y'all sitting in front of the PC typing, you should be in D.C. getting something done...oh I get it smart enough to get online and can type but beyond that y'all are just opinions...you know kinda like @!$%#s."

is EXACTLY what the politicians want: divisiveness amongst Americans. How can I be in DC when 1) my family is constantly worried when the 4TH shoe will drop, and 2) how many people would vote for someone like me who wouldn't promise the world to everyone?

How do you know I don't advocate my ideas? Probably because the politicians are too busy goofing off to notice my pleas and take action in addition to people on this thread who are so concerned with bashing the opposite party right out of the gate that so many good, thoughtful comments are too far down the thread and people get tired of the bashing and give up.

What you are basically doing is attempting to run off those that don't see things your way, and that is wrong. If you truly wanted solutions, you would engage in civil discussion and not make disparaging comments regarding your fellow citizens.

Shame on you.

toughcrowd, your a breath of fresh air my friend. I have a loved one with a type of lymphoma that has no cure. It's a death sentence. I hear you loud and clear on the situation of "no fault of your own", versus "direct results of personal choices". Unfortunately most people chose to look the other way, which is why this planet is so in trouble. People often talk of the fantasy of countries like Denmark or Sweden, being the "perfect" health care system. Yeah, but as a traveler for my whole life, nobody in Denmark looks like Americans, they are healthy and thin, we are 35% obese tanks, with another 25% on the way. It's nice to compare a country the size of Houston metro to the entire USA, like comparing apples to mountains. "good things" for you and your family.

@Phil #3.27, Reading is fundamental Phil. Go back and read my post at #3.8 where I declared quite clearly that I HAVE insurance for me and my family.

Then, further read my post which show all the inclusions Obamacare mandates which will raise costs "well above and beyond" what the uninsured do now. Obamacare simply redistributes the wealth by expanding the pool of our liabilities beyond where it is now.

see post 3.8 by jim-1455434 for a description of why the republican masses don't like the Affordable Care Act.

Jim, here's a clue: you are already paying for all those people you do not like and all their hyper-expensive visits to the emergency room.

The redistribution of wealth in this country began with Rotten Ronnie Reagan - criminal, traitor, and therefore republican god - and has continued through republickan administrations ever since. Why do you think Koch likes republickans? Why do you like Koch?

"The independent, non-partisan Congressional Budget Office – Congress’s official authority on the budget – estimates that provisions in the law will reduce the deficit by $143 billion over its first 10 years and by $1 trillion over the next two decades.

272 of America’s top economists said in a letter earlier this year: “the ACA contains essentially every cost-containment provision policy analysts have considered effective in reducing the rate of medical spending.”

Many small businesses are already taking advantage of tax credits in the new law that can cover as much as 35 percent of their health insurance premiums. In 2010 and 2011 alone, small businesses could save $6 billion. And that number will rise as we move towards 2014 when small businesses will be eligible for tax credits of up to 50% of their premiums."

Hey JH......Care to eat your words?

"Oh for the 'Good old days' of Bush when the jobless rate averaged 5.33% for 8 years, the economy grew an average of 5.8% per year and the Deficits averaged only $251 Billion per year."

Yeah, the 'good old days' where unemployment in January 2001 was 4.2% and rose to 7.8% in January 2009. While now, it's 8.2%, so where'd the big increase come? Oh yeah, during the 'good old days.'

Yeah, and the 'good old days' like 2008 when we were losing between 80K-800k jobs per month. But now since we have had 20 months of positive job growth, this would NOT be the 'good old days.'

Yeah, the 'good old days' when the debt went from 6.2T to 11.9T in FY 2009, and now stands at about 15.7T. Again, when did the biggest increase occur? Oh yeah, in the 'good old days.'

to be honest my disgust with Obama is much wider and for reaching that socialistcare

Have to agreee James. I went from disgust to mild anger to pissed off to wrath. Get out of my White House Barry!

To the GOP: President Obama's Health Care Insurance Program was designed by the Heritage Foundation in the early 90s as an alternative to HilaryCare that was being promoted by President Clinton. The Heritage Foundation is a conservative think tank worshipped by the GOP. President Obama, believing he would gain GOP support in Congress by promoting the Heritage Foundation's Health Insurance idea, embraced it and promoted the program thinking both sides would work out their differences. He found out, though, the Republicans in Congress were committed to destroying the Republic economically by attacking anything he proposed to move us out of the economic recession, and more committed to making certain the President was a one-term president than coming together to help the American people. The fact is that bad things happen to all people, including Democrats, Republicans, and Independents. The good news is that what goes around, comes around, and therefore, Republicans and their families will also suffer and die from their own hands! Some of the more than 26,000 Americans who died needlessly last year because they had no health insurance were likely Republicans. Were members of your family in that number? No, well it's not over yet. Maybe you'll get lucky this year....... Think about that when you or your loved one wakes up at 3:00 a.m. with a crushing pain in your chest, or your doctor tell some of you, "I'm sorry but it's cancer! Do you have health insurance?"

Didn't Romneycare also similar to Obamacare?

And like poster above, this is GOP health care plan, is it because Obama want it now?

Seriously, who do they "poll?"

People at home, watching Faux News, during the day, with landlines?

Maybe that has something to do with the poll "results."

So then you guys only like polls that show your right?

I worked from my leaving school to my present old age. I was/am fortunate in that,through education and good work skill training, I always have had good money/benefits. My medical coverage has always been adequate,but costly. I would never wish Cancerous problems onto anyone. I believe that our national health care reform act will not survive the S.C.OT U S. because of the make up of it's make up it's majority membership. I have had experience with other countries Medicare Systems and considered it to be much better than ours. Please don't say ,then why don't I go there. I am merely telling anyone who has an open mind what my considered opinion is. I all ready have my coverage .thanks!

Seriously, who do they "poll?"

People at home, watching Faux News, during the day, with landlines?

Maybe that has something to do with the poll "results."

Never Stop Asking Questions

Seriously, who do they "poll?"

People at home, watching Faux News, during the day, with landlines?

Maybe that has something to do with the poll "results."

Quit SPAMMING THE PAGES WITH YOUR STUPID COMMENT!

comd on

James in Seattle: "22% polled were in inner city Chicago and New Orleans"

Really? Really? And, where did this information come from? Sounds made up to me, but, if you can show me proof (and only then), I will believe u.

socialism's great as long as you aren't stuck with the bill

Socialism is magnificent until you run our of other people's money. I don't understandy why the socialists don't use THEIR money first. GREEDY?

You realize even conservatives like the provisions that state that people cant be dropped for pre-existing conditions? or keeping your children on your plan until they are 26? I would think that it would be the "fiscal-conservatives" that would want the provision that pays for it. Apparently not.

Rick - Yep. "Money for nothing and your chicks for free"

The Liberal mind set.

The fact that any of you think this is socialism only proves that our education system has failed. Good job morons.

Funny how conservatives always want war but never are willing to pay for it.

Medicare Part D? Not paid for.

Why is it that deficits explode under republican presidents but not democratic ones?

Funny how all you low information nutjobs love socialism when you need it, but hate it when others need it.

Socialism is magnificent until you run our of other people's money. I don't understandy why the socialists don't use THEIR money first.

So you like the current system of the insured paying for the uninsured. How does that NOT fit you definition of socialism - ya know, someone else paying the bills of the uninsured.

If any of you using the word knew the definition of socialism, you'd be dangerous. You're just repeating the fleabagger drivel you've heard and repeating it cause it fits your tiny mindset.

yep

Seriously, who do they "poll?"

People at home, watching Faux News, during the day, with landlines?

Maybe that has something to do with the poll "results."

Dan from TX, so what do YOU call it when the mantra is "take from the few and give to the many"? "from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs" was that KARL MARX or VLADIMIR IILYCH LENIN? it CERTAINLY wasnt ABE LINCOLN!!!

It's all my fault,

You wrote: "Rick - Yep. "Money for nothing and your chicks for free"

The Liberal mind set."

Actually, all the opposition to the mandate portion of the law seems to come from our conservative Republican brethern. Perhaps, as they recognized in Massachusetts, the law would not work without a universal mandate. Interestingly, group insurance "offered" through most employers is mandatory, because they know the only way to keep premiums accessible is to spread the risk over all the possible participants.

lmao!! good one!!

ugh @ double post.

Hmmm... I guess it was too subtle a joke

marge-

nope, spot on!

It's not going to be another good day for Obama tomorrow I'm glad to say Julie .... "LOL"

Obama has lost all voting bases except Latinos. By November..he'll have lost that base as well.

Obama has lost all voting bases except Latinos. By November..he'll have lost that base as well.

Of course you have some proof to back up your claim... right?

Latinos want jobs also ....

Obama's stinks in that department .... "LOL"

Feisty you have never backed a claim in your life. How's your cushy tax-payer pension working for Ya'?

Actually yes..Rasmussen....who polls LIKELY voters.....had the poll.

The president picks up support from just 35% of white voters overall. That’s eight points below the 43% of the white vote he won in 2008.

Unlike what Obama thinks....THE PRIVATE SECTOR IS NOT DOING FINE.

Individual mandate was a neocon idea.

Funny how you T-Baggers hate Obamas policies once they become his, but you loved them when they were republican policies.

The president picks up support from just 35% of white voters overall

Ahh yess... the white male voters what do we call them again?

The tea-bagger base...

It's the only voting block you have left! Thankfully it is also a dying breed & soon to be minority!

Tell us Julie - what are Willard's numbers again when it comes to Blacks, women, GLTB, hispanic etc?

Actually yes..Rasmussen....who polls LIKELY voters.....had the poll.

Downtown - Chery picking one poll, a right leaning one at that, doesn't convince me of anything.

BTW - check the electoral polls out. That ought to make your day.

Obama/Biden 2012

Americans dont UNDERSTAND Obamacare and they've been hookwinked by corporate money. In FACT, many aspects of the law already in place are EXTREMELY POPULAR, even with people who don't like the entire law---which parts? Keeping kids on your health plan until age 26 -- electronic medical records sharing -- no exclusion due to pre-existing conditions.....can you REALLY find fault with any of those? Really?

Again, Feisty, you are dodging the question. Back up some of your claims. You never do, just take hateful potshots at those who disagree with you.

Cynisturb

Don't confuse Republican with Conservative. If your a Conservative you almost never vote Democrat.

Seriously, who do they "poll?"

People at home, watching Faux News, during the day, with landlines?

Maybe that has something to do with the poll "results."

And yet another set of wisdom pearls from the world's foremost authority on nothing.

Is it hard to be the first post collapsed every day? Most to say of what nobody wants to hear. Fiesty the GEM of firstread!

I think people hate Obama more than Obamacare.

Keep in mind that this is not his first healthcare plan. The GOP went on and on about what they wanted. The bill was revised to fit everyone needs and they are still complaining.

I say F everyone who is against it. He's the president, will be the president for another four years and there is nothing you can do about it.

A conservative though has a dilemma in repairing potholes in roads and other municipal functions, because they want cutbacks on everything with no revenue to pay for essential functions. Such as Mary Fallin in Oklahoma wants to do away with the state income tax, great, but is having a heck of time trying to figure out where replacement revenue will come from, so you have to cleverly make up revenue streams BUT not call it a "tax". God forbit a Republican produce revenue and call it a TAX.

Why is it that Polls reflect mostly Republican voters?

Single payer will have all the same problems as private run and certainly would not create a utopia. There would probably be more waste and costs would go up even worse.

I am glad our future health care is going to be based on assumptions made from a random commentator. Good news is we'll probably all die some day.

Single payer will have all the same problems as private run and certainly would not create a utopia.

Oh really .. then why is Medicare the most popular form of medical insurance? It has the lowest overhead, the lowest overall cost, and the lowest premiums. Compared to private run insurance, it IS a utopia - and it is single payer to boot.

It also has the lowest payout to doctors which is why doctors are refusing to accept NEW medicare patients.

At least it wouldn't have the government telling private citizens that they're forced to buy a product from a private company; with the precedent setting nature if that should get upheld. As long as we have elected officials making that sort of decision on the voters, and on behalf of the lobbyists (including the insurance company lobbyists) who they really serve; perhaps, just perhaps we could use a Thomas Jefferson and a George Washington today, to tell them where they can go shove such proposals...

It would be interesting, if the framers were alive to respond to this whole mess today... The govenment by and for "we the people" sounds more like a government by and for the lobbyists today, where representation is based on the almighty buck that can be contributed to elected officials campaigns, with proposals like that there mandate...

Who the heck is talking of Utopia. I want a fair health care system. It is impossible to have one under our current system where for profit insurance companies are insuring our health care. I want to pay for it. I worked all my life and never gotten anything for free from anyone and do not want any. But you have to be stupid to want to continue with the system we have. We need a non-profit organizations to insure us or single payer system. In the past couple of decades Dems tried to improve our health insurance. Reps did nothing but obstruct. I say this while having great health care coverage for myself and my family. I say this because I see farther than the end of my nose.

Anyways, it is just beyond me why would anyone want to be part of the current looney toon Republican camp. They are not financially conservative, they rob the US government left and right, always overspend, leave the country in a mess (i.e. Reagan, Bush'es) and dems have to fix things again. Where were the tea-baggers when wars were started by borrowing money, cutting taxes and borrowing money again; not once but twice. Are you kidding me? I would have to be dropped on my head many times to be part of this mess called Republican party. I used to be Republican, but today's Republicans are like Pakistani Taliban. The only thing that they are conservative about are their own money (very liberal about spending other people's money), social issues: i.e. kill the gays or lock them behind a high electrified fence, take away contraception but do not have abortions, take away the public education so that they can make profits on it, oh and die when you get sick. I've seen all of those view points from the Republican audiences during their presidential primaries. Extremism at its finest.

Seriously, who do they "poll?"

People at home, watching Faux News, during the day, with landlines?

Maybe that has something to do with the poll "results."

So, if healthcare is approved by the U.S. Supreme Court, will doctors still be able to turn away Medicare/Medicaid patients?

The health care act is likely to be gutted by the Right Wing Majority in the S.C.O.T.U.S.if not in it's entirety , at least in the one way in which it would be affordable and truly possible.

agree, you seem to be quick to these threads.

Wow the trolls do a good job spreading ignorance

They're fast little f*uckers too!

All it takes is for one of them to blow the dog whistle & they come marching!

They're fast little f*uckers too!

second only to the employees at MSDNC

Awwwwwww ....

Someone doesn't want to hear anything negative about our disastrous Obama ....

How cute ....

Who is always first to post Fiesty?

I'm new here feisty but you sure sound like you're describing yourself! And by the way do you work for MSNBC?

Wow potty mouth much there Fiesty??

LOL FEISTY DEADHEAD is nothing more than a head up Obama's A--, brain dead zombie!!!!

Fiesty, they are little trolls. They question is what are they doing at the MSNBC sites? Don't they know there is FoxNews where they can live in their delusional bubble, patting each other on their backs, making retarded arguments having every idiot on there agreeing with them? I think that Foxnews with very few exceptions is a joke. Still remember reading about the crying fits from Glenn Beck. Hahaha that was funny. I think I know why they are here though. They want to hate and spit out the ridiculously stupid arguments. Hate is what motivates them. They've learned few sound bites like socialism and label whatever they do not understand with them.

They question is what are they doing at the MSNBC sites?

Faux Noise shut down their comment section litter box!

There wasn't a pooper scooper big enough to clean up that hot mess!

The few times I wondered over there - I immediately had to take a shower upon leaving!

We all know what you" blow" to get your "group" marching! God I just couldnt pass that one up! Julie.... speak your piece and let it go, remember the old Samsonite commercials, lets say she doesn't look like the luggage.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=749iU2Zv1kw

More garbage coming out of Fisty. Everyday I read the comments and the blob red head is on here spewing hate. Then she has the balls to try and call other people out for speaking hateful. Nasty Red Head is a typical liberal.....she thinks she is smarter than everyone else and she feels she should make the rules. Basically Funky Red Head was the one who was picked last in gym class like most liberals. Whats wrong Fisty? Mad because your favorite bar Boogie Nights was shut down? For those who dont know about that bar its a place were unattractive women over 40 pick up guys in their mid 20's who are so blind drunk they would go home with a gardening tool.

James, you really have no idea what you're talking about--you are one uninformed person, I have to tell you. Not that it stops you from posting of course.