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Once the House committee votes in favor of citing Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt, it goes to the full House for consideration.
If the full House votes in favor of the contempt citation, the issue is sent to the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia. A federal law adopted by Congress in 1857 directs federal prosecutors to refer these matters to a grand jury for possible prosecution. The language is mandatory as to the U.S. attorney: "whose duty it shall be to bring the matter before the grand jury for its action."
But from there on, it gets complicated.
The Justice Department has long taken the position, as a separation of powers matter, that Congress cannot force the Justice Department to undertake a prosecution of an executive branch official. The courts have never resolved the question.
The Justice Department, under both Democratic and Republican administrations, has further claimed that a U.S. attorney must not initiate a prosecution when the president has asserted executive privilege over what Congress seeks.
The administration of George W. Bush most recently made this claim during the congressional investigation of the firings of several U.S. attorneys nationwide. Congress subpoenaed former White House counsel Harriet Miers and Chief of Staff Josh Bolton, and the president directed that neither should testify or produce the requested documents. Though the broad issue of executive privlege went to court, it is still unresolved.
Another gray area here is how much a president can cover under the umbrella of an assertion of executive privilege. The further a matter gets from the White House and presidential decision making, the more the courts have been unwilling to recognize it.
On a broader point, the federal courts have been reluctant to referee what they see as fights between the White House and Congress. During the legal battle over Miers, the federal district court in Washington practically begged the two sides to work it out without suing each other.
"The court strongly encourages the political branches to resume their discourse and negotiations in an effort to resolve their differences constructively," it said.
And finally, there's this point to remember: if this does end up in court, it could take up to two years to resolve, given the time for a trial and subsequent appeals. However, a contempt citation is valid only during the Congress which approved it. Each term of Congress lasts only two years, so if the issue was still in the courts when this Congress ends in a year and a half, the contempt citation would evaporate, and so would any lawsuit.
Leave a Comment:
Issa looks like a complete idiot now . Are we gonna revisit the " friendly fire hearings "also?
Pat whoo??? You should get it straight if you want to honor someone. He only looks like that (Issa) in the eyes of the B. Hussein O. whores -- like you.
Don't forget how much Issa is giving more reason for to vote for Democrats
Yup, Pat Tillman, and Jessica Lynch (PR stunt), common Issa let's look at everything concerning the lies of the invasion of Iraq!.......
This is more of a reason to vote out this corrupt administration you IDIOT!!!!!! You B. Hussein O. whores are about changing the past which is impossible. I am about changing the future of this great country from the deep divide of a socialist king (yes socialist he was a member of the New Party). This was the absolute worst experiment this country has ever embarked on. Hussein has become a Frankenstein and the villagers need to end his reign.
Interesting isn't it?
This all started in Bush's administration and Holder stopped it.
I guess these sorts of operations are only a problem when a Black Democrat occupies
the White House.
It's obvious Repubs want noooooooo black people in power. Remember the Van Jones scandal How bout Glenn Beck's obsession with Valerie Jarret
Go to hell racist!!
The Fake outrage by the wingnuts is laughable. Disingenuous f'n
jerks.
Goofballs right wing nut cakes and Issa are losers! Get back to work now on the economy!
Oh Beaverly -- You make me laugh with disgust.
Oh Beaverly -- You are more of an idiot than I imagined. You O'Whores don't even want to touch the economy. LMAO.
Ben@Pat whoo??? You should get it straight if you want to honor someone. He only looks like that (Issa) in the eyes of the B. Hussein O. whores -- like you.
Why don't you crawl back up that butt crack you came out of, "Little Ass Monkey"
That jerk-off Issa is only playing politics with this issue. This whole contempt witch hunt has about as much staying power as a fart in the wind...
Obama/Biden 2012
Hey Issa, when are you going to honor the memory of those brave soldiers electrocuted by Dick Cheney's Haliburton?
Ben-636050
Are you yelling at the clouds again ?
@GT -- To look at a turd all you need to do is look in the mirror, you miserable POS. I am tired of you Hussein whores getting away with trash talk, so I will push the administrators of this site to the limit. The gloves are off tough girl. This miserable president is a one termer.
GT-2021701
Why don't you crawl back up that butt crack you came out of, "Little Ass Monkey"
That's right. You tell him GT.
"Contempt What Would Happen Next?" Nothing: Obama believes he is above the law.
Obama dont know what economy means.
Similar to 99.9% of the posters that claim this.
Ben-636050
I am tired of you Hussein whores getting away with trash talk, so I will push the administrators of this site to the limit. The gloves are off tough girl.
Hey Bennie Boy,
Are you familar with the vagina monolgues?
Don't push it. The "P"word is poweful!!!
bulletstopper
Black is always right there Bev, while opposite comments are not?
You are wrong: It's only when people like you make racist comments!!!!
Well Beaverly -- You will see below where Hussein whores will get that pen you mentioned. Spread'em baby. The vagina monologues don't scare me so don't threaten me.
Once again, we see Obama and his clingons desperately trying to pretend the Emperor has clothes.
Once again, I quote right from the horse's ASS:
“I think we will determine over the next several weeks how this administration (President Bush) responds to the very appropriate call by Patrick Leahy, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, to have these individuals come in and testify, Obama said in 2007. “There‘s been a tendency on the part of this administration to try to hide behind executive privilege every time there’s something a little shaky that’s taken place. I think the administration would be best served by coming clean on this. There doesn’t seem to be any national security issues involved with the U.S. Attorney… There doesn’t same to be any justification for not offering up some clear, plausible rationale for why these U.S. Attorneys were targeted when by all assessments they were doing an outstanding job.”
“I think the American people deserve to know what was going on,” Obama added.
"Going forward, anytime the American people want to know something that I or a former president wants to withhold, we will have to consult with the Attorney General and the white house counsel, whose business it is to ensure compliance with the rule of law. Information will not be withheld just because I say so; it will be withheld because a separate authority believes my request is well-grounded in the Constitution. Let me say it as simply as I can: transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency,"
The mindless MORONS who continue to support this ass hole in the WH deserve nothing but the contempt of the whole world!
Ben@ The gloves are off tough girl. This miserable president is a one termer.
Bring it on Slingblade! But you better have some better comments than what you're spewing or I'll tare ya
a new ass-whole........
PS I love @!$%#ing with little retards like you!!!
Ben, Ben, please do not refer to me as a "B. Hussein Obama whore."
Whores charge for their services and affections. I'm the sort of roundheeled slut who gives them freely to the President...
Sup with your obsession with whores? Not getting it wet?
'Ben-636050', whatever positions you are supporting are being done a great disservice by your own language. Why don't you tone it down a bit and try to make your points using arguments presented with civility, and with supportable facts .... rather than with profanity, and childish playground insults.
If you are an adult, behave like an adult. If you do that, others will engage you in-kind and you will serve your point of view in a manner that others won't simply ignore or dismiss.
Lost in the msm coverage of Fast and Furious is the reason the program was created, and an explanation of why Eric Holder has stopped talking to Issa and his gang of Rovian witch-hunters.
The ATF(not Eric Holder or Barack Obama) created Fast and Furious as a means of catching cartel boses higher up in the food chain then the ATF were normally getting. When agents saw little fish buying guns, they were told not to bust them, which had previously just resulted in a slap of wrist for the "straw buyers." No, they were told to let the little fish go in order to follow the guns back to bosses who were paying for them. Mexican authorities were not informed of the program because - news flash - there is quite a bit of corruption among Mexican law enforcement.
Some of the emails that have surfaced indicate the ATF thought of a secondary use for the program - to help get laws passed to force gun shops to report multiple sales to the same buyer. Gosh, you think? And, this is apparently what has the rightwingers panties in a twist, because anything that smacks of gun control "threatens our freedoms." (Unless it's deliberately letting guns fall into criminal hands, where they can be tracked, in which case it's treason.)
Eric Holder has stopped cooperating with Issa, I believe, because it's clear the Republican Congressmen are trying to make a political football out an attempt by law enforcement to 1) to take down big drug pins and 2) create tougher laws so that little fish don't just walk away with a slap on the wrist, allowing drug lords to keep trying to purchase guns, which is what lead to the need for Fast and Furious in the first place. It is my understanding also, that information gleaned from Fast and Furious has led to arrests higher up in the cartels, and disclosing more information on it might jeopardize ongoing investigations into that world.
Why can't Ben get it thru his thick skull that Hussein is dead. And what is with calling the women in his harem whores.
Speaking of contempt, do we Americans get to hold Issa in contempt. How about bringing him up on charges of frivolous law suits. Don't look forward to getting this resolved anytime soon, Issa has put in his day of work this week. Given that next week is a vacation week, this will next be addressed in two weeks. And well, on his one day back at work, he will review the paperwork, and then it will be off again for another two weeks.
Obama believes he is above the law.
Gil - You're thinking of Nixon...
I love days like today. I can just sit back and laugh at the liberals destroying themselves from within.
How many times have I said, the truth shall set you free. I guess in Hussein Obama and Holders case, it will also bury them.
Thank you liberals, for giving us more and more reasons every day to vote you out this November.
Who said CSPAN isn't entertaining television???
Well, you get an A for effort, but that's all.
F&F was a deliberate, premeditated attempt by Obama to put guns purchased in the US into the hands of Mexican drug cartels.
Then, it was believed that the guns would be 'found to have originated in the US' and that would set the stage for Obama to attack the Second Amendment.
It's really that simple.
And, the reason why Obama is pushing back so hard is because these documents that are being withheld contain damning evidence.
Otherwise, why try and hide the information?
"National Security"?
I think not.
I think it's due to the Feb. 4, 2011 letter where Holder made false claims.
And, I point once again to the very words of Barak Hussein Obama:
“I think we will determine over the next several weeks how this administration (President Bush) responds to the very appropriate call by Patrick Leahy, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, to have these individuals come in and testify, Obama said in 2007. “There‘s been a tendency on the part of this administration to try to hide behind executive privilege every time there’s something a little shaky that’s taken place. I think the administration would be best served by coming clean on this. There doesn’t seem to be any national security issues involved with the U.S. Attorney… There doesn’t same to be any justification for not offering up some clear, plausible rationale for why these U.S. Attorneys were targeted when by all assessments they were doing an outstanding job.”
“I think the American people deserve to know what was going on,” Obama added.
**
"Going forward, anytime the American people want to know something that I or a former president wants to withhold, we will have to consult with the Attorney General and the white house counsel, whose business it is to ensure compliance with the rule of law. Information will not be withheld just because I say so; it will be withheld because a separate authority believes my request is well-grounded in the Constitution. Let me say it as simply as I can: transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency,"
Robert,
I hope your comment is not just directed at Ben, but at the countless other regulars that post from both sides of the political spectrum.
If Issa's going after people for contempt of Congress, then he ought to have me arrested. I have nothing but contempt for Issa and his fellow morons.
Beverly in Chicago
"Don't forget how much Issa is giving more reason for to vote for Democrats"
As in Wisconsin? Obama cannot win with this economy. Not even if you send Fat Ed Shultz to help him.
Issa proved to be very slippery.....typical of criminal interprise!
I've read 3 articles on this now and still have no idea what "Fast and Furious" even is. Shouldn't that matter? What a bunch of political BS.
chilled...
proves nothing, except that he is qualified to be in politics
Dang, Robert in Oregon just noted about Ben, "others will engage you in-kind and you will serve your point of view in a manner that others won't simply ignore or dismiss."
Man, I am so busted...
"Don't forget how much Issa is giving more reason for to vote for Democrats"
Actually, from an independant - this is doing the opposite. The president promised to run on transparency, he promised change. I voted for him because there was not a snowball's chance in hell i would vote for someone with Palin as a running mate - yes - the VP canidate ended up deciding my vote.
I will more than likely vote for Mitt- the President - this action only helps prove this - Our President talks the talk, but doesnt walk the walk. Mitt will prolly do the same, but President Obama has proven he doesnt back up his words. I said the same when Bush pulled this crap - if you dont have anything to hide, than dont hide- otherwise your proving you do have something to hide.
Also - calling people racist is kinda pointless anymore - Anyone that disagees with the far leaning left is a racist, anyone that disagrees with the far leaning right is a traitor. When i see "racist" anywhere anymore, i just ignore it - it has no meaning anymore.
Beverly in Chicago - why don't you bother to get your facts straight before you just decide to spout off. Fast and Furious began in 2009 under our white president Obama and his flunky Holder and not as you claim in the Bush Administration.
I've read 3 articles on this now and still have no idea what "Fast and Furious" even is. Shouldn't that matter? What a bunch of political BS.
If you read MSNBC, you wouldn't know much, since they've been omitting it from their readers.
A US Border Patrol agent, and dozens of Mexican civilians were killed due to this botched fiasco.
Most of what you read in MSNBC is edited lies made for Obama to look good.
'JK1963' wrote:
RESPONSE: Of course, JK. Point taken.
I directed my comment to Ben on this particular thread because his rhetoric started out with rough language and got worse.
Read comment #1.1 to get my point. It went downhill from there. As goes the old adage: "Start with the fire-starter"
Spending your time at ATS I see. Good place for some fun conspiracy theories, but didn't realize their posters were making it to mainstream media sights. What's next, 12/21/2012 Mayan Doomsday Theories? Bilderberg control over the world government with the aid of the reptilian ET Dracos? HAARP caused earthquakes and tsunamis in Japan?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Above_Top_Secret
Actually, it only SEEMS that way to people who don't care WHAT their candidate does, as long as he waves the team flag you want. You must be one of the 17% that approves of Congress. To most of the rest of us, it makes me want to vote out every single congressman who thinks they're above the law and are behind this charade of hiding whatever it is in those documents. I dont' care if I never see the classified documents. I just want justice if any criminal activity was done. What's Holder trying to cover up here?
The race card? Seriously? Everyone throws that around so much that even if someone was really being racially discriminated against, nobody would believe them. Stop crying wolf if you really care about minorities. You're drowning out the legitimate cries for help and doing irreparable damage to the black community. How about you tell us what you think of Condi Rice, Colin Powell, Herman Cain, etc and let us decide if you're a racist or not?
Mike Brutus
Exactly. I found a pretty good explanation of Fast and Furious in this Washington Post article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-anti-gunrunning-effort-turns-fatally-wrong/2011/07/14/gIQAH5d6YI_story.html
also CBS has an article on push for stronger gun laws, using examples where Mexican criminals were able to buy multiple guns from gun stores.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-57338546-10391695/documents-atf-used-fast-and-furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations/
Who are some of you people? Where did you learn to think and compose sentences? In 2007 Obama was all over President Bush for using the Executive Privilege. Now he has chosen to use it to cover for his friend, Holder. It is as simple as that. They are both Chicago thugs - that is what Chicago produces. How many Governors of that state are in prison just now? What has blinded some of you? You are quick to accuse of others of racism - is that your problem? The word describes people of every race when they feel another race is not as good as theirs - regardless of which color skin the originator is. Sit down and look dispassionately at what Obama has done. Are you better off that you were when he took office? I doubt it.
#1.41
I suggest you read #1.43
BoBo the Clown
"Don't forget how much Issa is giving more reason for to vote for Democrats"
Actually, from an independant - this is doing the opposite. The president promised to run on transparency, he promised change. I voted for him because there was not a snowball's chance in hell i would vote for someone with Palin as a running mate - yes - the VP canidate ended up deciding my vote.
Also - calling people racist is kinda pointless anymore
Well, I guess not t-bagger moron. T-baggers don't get anything logical or factual.
Hey, T-bagger troll. I'll be happy to direct you to a Fox Noise link where you belong with the LIES.
MSNBC has been doing more lying than my carpet. They've lied about Romney, Zimmerman and a whole host of other things.
But, you keep on believing the douche bags at MSNBC. Tastes like grape kool-aid!
Go for it! The Federal prosecutors have done a wonderful job in getting convictions for contempt of congress, and perjury charges lately. Probably just a waste of taxpayer's money to even try.
1. Claiming that disagreement is not allowed otherwise the one disagreeing is a racist is itself a racist statement. Let's leave race out of the conversation. Either one agrees with Pres. Obama or one does not. In either case explain your position in logical terms and leave vulgarity out.
2. Pres. Obama is within his rights, as have previous Presidents, to invoke Executive Privilage. The real question for him to consider is whether it is appropriate to do so in Holder's case. My opinion is that it is not. Invoking Exec. Priv. now gives the appearance of a cover up. Whether it is a cover up or Pres. Obama is truly protecting national security issues will never be known. But the APPEARANCE of a cover up is undeniable.
3. I think the majority of Presidents believe they are above the law and have contempt for Congress. Pres. Obama is no different than his predecessors. Where he differs, however, is in the numerous questionable areas concerning his 20-year association with Rev. Wright, his appointment of communist tzars, his division of this country along racial lines, his division of this country along economic lines, his division of this country along religious lines, his division of this country along political lines, his pushing his agenda thru his Democratic Congress against the will of the U.S. population, his usurping the authority of Congress on a number of issues, his broken promises to his left wing base, his doing business as usual rather than changing the political wars in Washington, his continual apologies to the world for U.S. imperialism and arrogance, his being granted the Nobel Peace price before he began his Presidency and then starting the war against Libya on false pretenses (the "civilians" he kept referring to as in need of protection were rebels with weapons, not defenseless civilians), his lack of effective action against Iran, Syria, and North Korea, his continued policies and restrictions that hamper hiring in this country and force manufacturing elsewhere, etc.
4. I had high hopes for Pres. Obama's presidency in 2008. I thought he would become either one of our greatest Presidents or one of our worst. I am thoroughly disappointed and believe his policies and attitudes are making the latter come true.
"Roger Clemens"
I don't really care if they have a D or an R by the name- I want the TRUTH either way- where ever it leads!
And Bev, not everyone is a racist! It is entirely possible to dislike someone or what they do- and not have any racist tendencies. For example, I can say: "I HATE Obama's policies!" or "Obama is the WORST President in U.S. history!" and mean just that. It does not mean I am a racist- which I'm not. You should see my family! Heinz 57 all the way!
You can come down off the soapbox now & cool the jets...
Oh, and after all Obama & Holder have pulled- Romney wins in a LANDSLIDE!!!!! It'll be EPIC!
Racism is this when a president and Atty. Gen. stand in front of the American people and call for justice for Travon Martin. Then invoke executive privilege to prevent the American people from seeing justice for a citizen, civil servant and member of law enforcement? It kind of makes you wonder doesn't it?
Justice for the Terry family!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What's next for this president pardoning Charles Manson!!!!!!
Any moment Spike Lee will be tweeting the address of Sen.Issa and calling on the Black Panthers to put a bounty on his head. Of course he will get the address wrong. LOL
If this president has nothing to hide then he has no reason to invoke executive privilege plain and simple. Of course if this administration runs its normal course the truth will probably leak out as just about everything else does with this administration.
Reading many of the afore-mentioned comments by all the old time veterens of this blog here....this is definitely is the most amazing blog on the Planet Earth......and not in a good way.......very, very sad......I think I will come back when you are all civil to each other again....and I doubt that will happen before 11/6/12.........y'all (and you know who you are) should be ashamed of yourselves..........
I have a solution, let's just vote these Obama knuckleheads out of office, then go after Holder for the cover-up to get justice for the slain US agent.
What a lack of leadership this Obama administration has displayed. Poor example for all of us to follow.
what is obama hiding now?.......i say impeach obama and send him and his gang of petty tyrants back to chicago or wherever they came from......
The gun walking was done by Arizona Sheriffs and the NRA with gun sellers. Someone got very rich off this but it wasn't the Fed Gov., I don't believe. The NRA and Sheiriffs should be prosecuted and the sellers shoul lose thier liscence.
This invoking of executive privilege by Obama means one of two things. Either he and his administration are guilty of perjury in lying to Congress about White House involvement in Fast and Furious or Obama is attempting to break the law by asserting executive privilege over documents that the privilege does not apply to. Either way this makes Obama out to be a criminal who should be impeached from office.
Bev "
Well, I guess not t-bagger moron. T-baggers don't get anything logical or factual.
Hey, T-bagger troll. I'll be happy to direct you to a Fox Noise link where you belong with the LIES"
You prove my point - i disagree with you - so you start namecalling and acting a child. Hope life gets better for you Bev, living with that much hate cant be good. I wont even waste the time to argue with you, its pointless. I disagree with you, therefore i must be a tea party member/far right "troll" as you say. And you wonder why we regular people dislike the fringes so much.
Annie Potts in Nevada#1.44~~Only a rabid, radical, racist,republican extremist, who hates America and her people, could post this partisan political comment of hatred.
This whole thing is an attempt by the GOP to create a distraction and garner media coverage...'cause they got nothing legit to campaign on.
Obama/Biden 2012
I see, its OK for Bush to do it (he invoked executive privilege six times). What does that say about his beliefs?
That's because Bush had a bevy of democrat leaders in key positions that were looking to smear Bush at any possible chance over matters that were irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Obama has a bunch of dem leaders who are all "on board", and until recently the few republican leaders had zero balls. If Obama was challenged on HALF of his questionable actions, he'd easily have claimed executive privilege no fewer than about 12 times.
Funny to watch the libs come undone when they sense they may well be headed for the wood chipper and how they scurry about yelling incoherently about this and that trying to distract and detract and become complete goof-balls in the process.
And all you people upset over Obama using EP for the first time...
were equally upset each of the four(4) times Bush 43 used it? In a single month? on 4 different instances?
I don't like it and am disappointed that Obama used it. It's some dirty republican garbage, imo.
If President Obama and AG Holder cares one iota about the American people as they CLAIM they do, then they should seek justice for one dead US Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and his family. If they do not care at all, then proceed as you are already doing! Brian Terry's family deserves justice, whether the pricks responsible are manipulating laws or not! I wish someone from outside the US Governement would get involved. Where is a hero when you need one? They cannot be found in D.C., it seems.
"when this Congress ends in a year and a half" - Umm, this congress is finished in seven months.
LookForTheTruth#1.51~~You certainly can disagree with any president on policy, but when you don't know anything personally about that president except his skin color, and engage in racist remarks against him, compose and/or forward racist emails and/or defend those who engage in those things, then yes, you are a racist. I have never known a racist to stand up and say, "I am racist", but people know when racism is being spoken. No doubt about it, the truth shines through!
Yes.
Yes, this congress is definitely 'finished' in 7 months.
Don't know who will have control of it, but as it exists right now? That's going to change.
Bob-636050 - learned a new word this weekend did ya, Bobbie? Not everyone is like the woman you hired so you should probably re-consider the word.
STexan, you're joking - right? The GOP has stopped everything Obama has tried to accomplish with votes in the House and filibusters in the Senate. Get a clue. The Democrats have no ultimate majority!
Obama/Biden 2012
Bobo,
Just wanted to say thanks for adding some rational discourse to the discussion, and as another independent, I agree with most of your sentiments.
The reaction to the story is the perfect example of what happens when the mainstream media takes sides in reporting politics. MSNBC has for the most part along with the rest of the mainstream media, totally ignored this whole case. Now that we have Obama hiding from the truth, they are forced to cover it. This country was formed on the premise of a non-biased media that was suppose to keep government in check, reporting the news based upon the facts. Unfortunately we now have a mainstream media that reports based upon political ideology, which only lends itself to more corruption in government.
If life is like a box of chocolates. Whoever the hell opened the one with Obama and Holder in it would you please do us a favor and put them back in the box.
@GREATGRAN101
Just where in my post did I bring up anything personal about Obama??? My comments were about the job he's done the past 3.5 years and how awful he's been for our nation- nothing more, nothing less. What YOU did was read something into it that was NOT there! typical... Usually the one calling out the issue is suffering from the issue- the "Jimmy Swaggart Syndrome"- but that's just an observation from life in general.
Sorry, try again...
@Mick-2181854 post 1.52
Obama's priorities are a little backward- so yeah, you get respect for a "wanna-be" thug over a dedicated law enforcement officer protecting our nation.
Yeah, Obama will bring us all together... geesh.
What an irreverent response. If you're going to compare the Democrats desire to get rid of Bush with the Republican desire to get rid of Obama, there's no comparison. When the Republican Congressional leadership announces that their number one priority is to get rid of the President on his first week in office, there's just no comparison. And you second comment was laughable. Obama's questionable actions?...oh, you mean like invading a country that had nothing to do with 911; or Medicare Part D that only benefited pharmaceutical companies, or his administration outing a CIA operative, or giving billions to wall street with NO strings attached?
My bad - meant Bennie, not Bobbie - however, I do think they're related.
Ol_Doc - great post!
I voted for Obama in 2008.
I regret that decision. The fact that Obama invoked Executive Privilege in this can really only mean one thing. That he was involved in the decision making, and that there are details in the documents that would make him look bad in this whole sordid affair. This means that he is hiding his own poor decision and potential corruption behind an abuse of executive privilege as he himself complained about back in 2007.
I am utterly disappointed in Obama. I thought perhaps this was just Holder's doing, that his misstatements, his dissembling, his refusal to operate above the board and shine the clarifying light of day on these documents was merely to hide his own misdeeds. As it turns out, this goes all the way to the top, to Obama himself...
Most transparent Administration in history my _ss... this is looking more like one of the most corrupt Administrations in history. I can not believe I was duped into voting for this man last time on the hope he'd actually try to make good on his claims.
I'm not a fan of Romney. But Obama looks to me like he deserves to lose in November. His betrayal of the American public, of the nation, is completely repugnant.
And yes, I was just as angry at Bush and Clinton for the same. I still had *some* respect left for Clinton by the end, at least he was a fiscally responsible President unlike either Bush or now Obama. Bush I loathed. But Obama has earned my complete disgust now as well.
I'll go along with that...when we hold the Bush Administration responsible for falsifying the evidence that led to a war that killed over 4400 Americans and over 100,000 Iraqis.
So what the point? wasting my GD tax money.
To Ben and other right wing crazies. You people make me sick! I'm saying this, because you people call people you don't agree with, nasty names and make threats when challenged. Yet YOU PEOPLE CALL YOURSELVES, THE "PEACEFUL" PARTY!?!?!? You people lie ALL THE TIME!! Yet, you call yourselves Christians!?! You believe EVERYTHING a Republican tells you, yet, you say you people aren't naive!?! There are things I disagree with Obama, and there are idiot Democrats that get on my nerves. Yet EVERY Republican to YOU people is "Perfect". That's why you people make me sick! You don't even have a specific reason why you don't like Obama.. and don't give me no crappy talking point on TV!!
"And finally, there's this point to remember: if this does end up in court, it could take up to two years to resolve, given the time for a trial and subsequent appeals. However, a contempt citation is valid only during the Congress which approved it. Each term of Congress lasts only two years, so if the issue was still in the courts when this Congress ends in a year and a half, the contempt citation would evaporate, and so would any lawsuit."
So, in other words, it's a political stunt. Doesn't congress have REAL issues to work on? How about passing the transportation bill? Or is that beyond the capabilities of the Republicans?
JPM77 - Obama knows this is just a witch hunt to try to deflect from the GOP candidate during the election. He did the right thing and your jumping to the conclusions you did indicate you no more voted for Obama in 2008 than I did McCain.
The GOP is trying every tactic they have to put this administration down near the elections. Even a slightly intelligent person would know that.
Obama/Biden 2012
"
Well, I guess not t-bagger moron. T-baggers don't get anything logical or factual.
Hey, T-bagger troll. I'll be happy to direct you to a Fox Noise link where you belong with the LIES"
RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!! SHE'S GOING TO BLOW!!! T-BAGGER-T-BAGGER-T-BAGGER. NO COKE! PEPSI! T-BAGGER-T-BAGGER
Funny, Issa's right hand man in this saga is Republican congressman Joe Walsh who, up to recently owed about One Hundred Thousand Dollars in back child support and refused to attend court on the matter saying he is too busy. Too busy to support the kids he made? I wonder if these poor babies have hit the welfare rolls as yet? No wonder he belongs to the party that wants to roll back the child labor laws.
The press ought to write a detailed article about "Fast and Furious" and let the people know that this project was started by Bush administration and was stopped by Eric holder immediately after he took office.
F&F was NOT started under bush it was a totally different programa and a diefferent name holder changed the program to include walking guns without tracking them or following them in anyway, do you think if they could blame bush they wouldnt do it lol they are covering up because they are guilty and obama knew about the entire program and probably approved it. After 20 years in law enforcement I cannot believe that holder would allow guns to walk into a neighbor country with getting apporval from obama which is why he is covering this up now.
And you idiots that keep blaming bush and bringing him up everytime your idiot president makes a blunder really sound and look stupid. This is ALL obama NOT BUSH he has been gone over 3 years get over it lol this is your idiot now making these mistakes and he should be held accountable and if you dont think so you are an idiot yourself. i dont care if it is repub or dem when they do crap like this they need to be held accountable and he will be in november obama will lose in a land slide and all your liberal pools mean nothing to what the real public feels out here about this idiot, he is the most destructive president in our history. And will not even get close to being re-elected so enjoy your last few months obama then you can golf all you want to
nice try....but you know when the program started "Project Gunrunner"....and you know what they did!
btw - when you say something foolish like "he'll lose in a landslide"....the rest of your post sounds more useless then it did the first time!
Daryl Issa the watchdog has a colorful and criminal past. Can anyone believe anything he says?
I think that whoever made a movie as $#itty as "The Fast and the Furious" should be held responsible, indicted, and then prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law!
Contempt schumempt -- Issa, where are the gawd dang JOBS?!
I get it now. NBC, MSNBC, and now Obama and Holder are proven liars and you hypocrites want to support an administration that commits murders of American citizens without due process, commits accessory to murder, and commits obstruction of justice. These are the minimum charges Holder should be charged with but you liars and amoral jackasses have his back. Thanks for finally showing your true colors. None of you supporting him for political or racial reasons should be able to sleep at night. You're all racists, bigots, idealogues, and hypocrites. Now collapse my post and prove me right.
MSNBC, your credibility is absolutely shot and each of you should be required to learn that journalists report the news, not make it up. Oh, and to everyone with a Fox Lies avatar or anything similar: what do you have to say about the proof that the NBC news organizations have been lying to you all along?
SeekingSanity, keep your head in the sand if you want. That Obama would do this is as bad as George W. Bush, as bad as Nixon.
This is not a 'stunt'. This is a serious issue, one of our border patrol agents, Brian Terry is dead as a result.
Obama is hiding, much as he complained George W. Bush did with his claims of executive privilege, from justice.
It is absolutely despicable.
The gunrunner operation started in 2006. Curious why congress isn't investigating that? Nor the no-bid Haliburten contracts (and electricution of US soldiers from their faulty work), or the lies about WMD's, or illegal foreign detention centers, or enhanced interregation techniques. No, the find a program started during BUSH and only investigate the later part.
Now, I am no fan of that program (under Obama) or several other things this administration has held over, but the nature and timing of this is pure political theater meant to give the easily distracted something to hold their attention other than the total lack of any effort by congress to address the issues with the economy. Why? The last thing the GOP wants is ANY improvement of the economy before the election. These tactics go back to Nixon who commited TREASON by extending the Vietnam war for his own politcal purposes...and probably go back further than that (Nixon just made it an art form for the GOP).
JPM77 -- After all the Republican shenanigans, you claim President Obama is despicable? Hahaha! The President and Dems have simply learned that if they lay down they will become a door mat. Teapublican bullies hate it when those passive "libruls" push back -- The rightwing has been long over-due for some if their own medicine. Obama/Biden - 2012!
Amy in Portland
You want the whole world to think Eric Holder had nothing to do with this operation when the ATF was ordered by Janet Reno to assault the Branch Davidian Compound in Waco, Texas?
The whole reason there is a problem is because Eric Holder was caught saying he knew nothing about the operation that one of the 7000 documents released showed he clearly knew about it one year earlier than he testified. OOPS! Someone didn't get the memo on what date he testified to have had knowledge of the operation.
It is the oversite committee's job to insure that when something goes wrong in a federal operation to get to the bottom of the matter. This keeps our agencies from becoming the gestopo or the KGB!
Samelson
Bush Version VS the Obama version
First of all, Bush's operation was halted in September 2007. Eric Holder was not in office until early 2009. Wherever you got the Holder put a stop to it is full of smelly excriment!
Under Bush, the weapons were equiped to be tracked by satellite and put into cartel members hands that would go to cartel operation centers. The GPS data was then forwarded on to Mexican Authorities to move in and take out the drug Cartels. After several attempts proved unsuccessful because Mexican Authorities never moved in to bust the Cartels, the operation was halted. To date, non-of those weapons have crossed back into the US.
Under Holder, there was no satellite tracking. Nobody was tracking these people and Mexico was not informed that the US was doing this, and no attempt was made to bring them on board. The reason for doing this was equally lame, and as agents have said, they believed this program was all wrong.
We lost a border agent and several civilians because these weapons were put directly into the hands of cartel people that had to be known were actively crossing the border and performing violent acts here inside the US.
The Bush operation was questionable, the Holder/Obama operation is an outrage.
I wonder how many of you dumbfuk liberals that think Holder is such a wonderful fella would, if your father, brother, husband, uncle, nephew, had been on the receiving end of the murder he oversaw would just say, oh well, let's get a Big Mac? My guess would be NONE. You'd want to know what had happened and who was responsible, but since it's a patriot that was murdered by him, it's OK. The more patriots murdered, the better, right?
As noted in the above posts, the Liberals are coming unglued.
Just wait and see what happens when the SCOTUS says the Mandated Universal Health Care Reform legislation is UNCONSTITUTIONAL and the Arizona I.D. Check legislation is CONSTITUTIONAL.
Wow, the Liberal heads will explode.
Next on the agenda: IMPEACHMENT.
Hey, jim p, the republikkers have been killing 20-30,000 people a year since Reagan.
What are you babbling about? How about make a coherent argument? What 20-30,000 people are you referring to? Actually, don't bother, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about and you're just trying to deflect.
TruePatriot-445959, the Republicans frequently act despicably, I am not a Republican and have never argued otherwise. It still doesn't change the fact that what Obama has done on this is despicable. I'm neither a cheerleader for the Right or Left, nor Democrat nor Republican.
I'll call it as I see it for either side.
The events of the past 36 hours should have everyone but the most hopeless ideologues alarmed. I can say with 100% certainty, had the whole Obama administration been upfront an honest about what went wrong with F & F at the very beginning, there would have been almost no negative fallout. There is something very unscrupulous going on here, now Obama and Holder are stuck in a corner with no way out, and the consequences will be, neither will have a job come next January, much sooner if something comes up that would warrant impeachment. The bottom line is, either Obama lied when he stated he knew nothing of F & F, or he's grossly misusing a privilege of the office. For those who think this goes back to Bush, give me a break, those documents would have been in hands of congress faster than a New York minute if they deflected blame from the thin skinned one, A.K.A. Obama. As for Holder, if Obama is clean with regard to prior knowledge and approval of F & F, it's only a matter of time before he gets thrown under the bus by his buddy Barrack.
HYSTERICAL! Darrell Issa, one of the most ethically challenged people EVER to be in Congress out on a witch hunt. The Republicans NEVER learn about overreach. Remember when they decided to go after Clinton? His crime? He got elected.
I am sure that Issa is EQUALLY outraged about the Cheney/Bush involvement in this matter, and will be going after them as well. After all, justice is justice, and the road leads back to them. He certainly wouldn't want to be PARTISAN about this, now would he?
Just more proof that Issa and the Republicans do not care about the economy or middle class American. All they care about is revenge on a President not of their party.
Remember when Holder told Congress that he would not seek any privilege or order???? Liar, liar pants on fire. The most corrupt administration since U.S. Grant.
Say loud mouth. Come up with some proof that Issa was ever convicted on ethic violations. Not accusations -- talk is cheap like Hussein whores.
Looks like the short bus didn't stop by Ben's house this morning.
Ben is yet another shinning example of what is to be found in the republican party. How pathetic.
Yeah make fun of the handicapped. You are just a leftist elitist piece of garbage who have no respect or regard for those in need. Democrats are liars from beginning to end. So go suck on the Hussein's exhaust pipe like the rest of his whores.
Pathetic is you romeo and the rest of the whores on this site. Democrats are never even handed when handing out criticism. You are the worst of liars and hypocrites. Let's dance.
You are correct AL and you are the most shining example of your comment below.
Look at the bright side nomore, isn't it inspiring to see that even the most challenged individuals can now access the Internet and have their incoherent spewing preserved for future generations to laugh at?
Issa is doing his best to get Congress' approval rating down from its lofty 9% level!
As if anyone believes that his motivation is other than political.
Teabaggers like Ben is why we need to improve our educational system!
One could almost believe in a genuine "Universal harmony" in the way all of the gonzos on the right consist of four-letter words...
Issa... Ryan... Karl Rove (double Down)... Newt... Mitt...
Okay, sorry. Just tossing the wingnuts logic back at them..
Steeler Fan-380417
So, you agree that Holder's actions were lawful and justified?
Contempt - That's what we have for all politicians..... How about we IMPEACH them all..... What A WASTE.
There's so much transparency with this administration you can get sunburned on a cloudy day jut walking near the Whitehouse.
don't shoot the messenger...
mrwarmth--whether or not Holder's actions were justified and whether or not Executive Privelege is properly invoked, the whole affair has the appearance of a politically-motivated witchhunt.
@Ben Umm do you even know what a "whore" is?! Here's a friendly tip: Randomly calling your political opponents prostitutes is not "being tough." It's just plain stupid. It basically says that you can't think of any relevant insults to hurl at them, so you just picked a random "naughty-ish" word and decided to use that ad nauseum.
Also, what's your fixation on "Hussein" anyway? Did you refer to the last president as "Walker"? Either you have some strange middle name fetish, or you're just a racist moron who's trying to remind people that President Obama has African heritage. Which is it?
You might also want to consider researching past presidencies. This one isn't anywhere near being the "most corrupt administration in history" as you keep witlessly parroting. Stop listening to the voices and try reading a book or a newspaper instead.
the Department of Justice has withdrawn a second statement made to Congress because it was inaccurate.
During last week’s Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, Holder had alleged that former Attorney General Michael Mukasey knew of gunwalking during the George W. Bush administration.
“An attorney general who I suppose you would hold in higher regard was briefed on these kinds of tactics in an operation called Wide Receiver and did nothing to stop them — nothing,” Holder told Texas Republican Sen. John Cornyn during that hearing. “Three hundred guns, at least, walked in that instance.”
After the hearing, Grassley wrote to Holder asking him to provide evidence to back up his blaming Mukasey.
Instead of being able to facilitate evidence, though, according to Iowa Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley’s office, Holder and the DOJ have now retracted that statement.
@totas Actually, that's not even remotely true. This is a rumor that's been circulating widely on right-wing blogs and talk radio, but you'll notice that not a single independent news source confirms it.
On the contrary, Mukasey DID know about this activity and it DID happen under his watch. Memos have been published, one written by Mukasey himself, that confirm this. Here's a quote from the Associated Press on the issue:
"The Associated Press has reported that the investigation of Fast and Furious has turned up Justice Department documents which indicate the gun-walking tactic was used in two other investigations by ATF offices in Arizona during the Republican administration of George W. Bush and a briefing memo to Bush's Attorney General Michael Mukasey that briefly described use of the tactic. Mukasey has declined to comment on the memo."
You can find the full article here: http://en-maktoob.news.yahoo.com/holder-fast-furious-errors-wont-repeated-232010353.html
Nice try, though. ;P
Kris Craig,
I got the information from Sen. Chuck Grassley's website.
@totas I see, and what steps did you take to confirm his accusations before regurgitating them here? As you can see above, the accusation Grassley made appears to be patently false. A simple fact check on your part prior to posting would have indicated that.
Whenever a politician from either party makes a serious claim like that, you should always attempt to verify it before blindly accepting it as true. In case you haven't noticed, politicians aren't exactly the most honest people around.
It's clear that the Republicans are conducting another witch hunt. If you have nothing to offer the majority of the American people...distract them!
Republican or democrat, it is truly amazing how the federal government makes up laws to protect themselves.
This issue with holder is ridiculeus as the law states even if this were to go to court there would be no out come seeing as it would take at least two years to get to trial. The law states that after this congress ends this contempt charge would just fade away which of course will end in less than that.
"Contempt of Congress"! Is that even a real charge? Is there a single American with functional, active brain cells who does NOT hold Congress in contempt?
All I can say is GOD BLESS PRESIDENT OBAMA for keeping my Family Safe and the Familes of other Freedom Loving Americans Safe, from Domestic Terrorists, Crazy Teabaggers, and those Rightwing Wacko Republicans
Let SEND the whole REPUBLICAN PARTY, back to the "DUNG HEAP of HISTORY" where they rightfully belong, come this November 2012.
Again, GOD BLESS YOU Resident Obama.
A lot of people seem to think that the investigation about how guns got into a criminals hands who then used it to kill a government agent is just all politics. That the only reason to ask questions about it is to make it an attack against the current admin, that its only political. OK I could see that. But it still needs to be found out about a man's family would like to know if his death was caused by some insane action of the government, it is a valid question and they deserve an answer. But as far as saying that any one party is show boating more than the other is just stupid. Look at the executive order regarding immigration and tell me that was not a bid for the hispanic vote. The two parties have a lot in common when it come to treating the voting public like they are idiots they also both seem to draw supporters who cannot communicate with each other because they are both right and the other is wrong, not much room for compromise in that world. I am totally disappointed in both parties and the people who continue to support their failure to govern effectively.
@republicansforobama
Why are you spouting useless rhetoric filled with insipid insults?
In the last four years the only "domestic terrorists" I have seen making the news have either been muslims or left leaning anarchists.
I have seen various attempts to pin violent acts on Right wing fringe groups over and over only to learn as always they are far left wing thugs.
Tea party people by majority uphold the Constitution you know the law of the land and want to return to a form of government that is held accountable for it's actions and these people hold views ranging from left to right to include Democrats, Republicans and libertarians.
Since they don't believe in either party the system now fears them and both sides attack them.
I notice you termed Obama as a Resident and you have nailed it he resides at the Whitehouse but does not belong there since he has yet to really lead our nation. The blamer and chief has had long enough to point the finger and blame everyone else for the EXPANDING problems.
As pathetic as GWBush was Obama appears to be easily wresting the crown from Bush and Carter and just about anyone would be preferable to what we are suffering through as a nation.
Holder must step down and the requested documents MUST be released. Not doing so is an insult to the American people and the rule of law.
This Administration sold automatic and Semi Automatic weapons to DTO's(drug trafficking organizations) in direct violation of common sense resulting in Hundreds of innocent Mexican deaths and the deaths of at least one Federal Agent!
Executive privilege was never meant to cover up this kind of nonsense.
@ Kris Craig..KUDO's to you.. very articulate & informative responses..verified by FACTS!!!
I don't know u do it without going off on sum of these Ignoramous Con-Artist-Servatives Repukes..
Btw people this "Fast & Furious" program started in 2006 & guess wot administration was in charge back then..
If Holder goes down (which he will not) then Bush's cronies will go down too!
The AG's under both Bush and Obama have been horrible. They should all go down. Especially Holder. He is pure evil.
MSNBC - BIASED - Doesn't have a headline about Osama evoking "executive privilege" because OSAMA-Hus sein, B is GUILTY of kill-ing American agents through HIS ILL EGAL illegit imate occupation of the office of President.
Meanwhile, the President's Jobs Bill sits... SINCE SEPTEMBER... ignored by the obstructionist GOTea, who's only focus is to stand in the way of progress for our country. Shame.
THE LONGEST DAY: EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE...
The privilege covers only communications made directly to the president and among his White House advisers, Obama cannot claim executive privilege "to cover Eric Holder". That's illegal.
“The White House decision to invoke executive privilege implies that White House officials were either involved in the Fast and Furious operation or the cover-up that followed.
Just as Nixon was not allowed to claim executive privilege to cover up a crime; neither can Obama.
'A Very Nixonian Mistake'...
"When the President does it, that means that it's not illegal." ~ Richard M. Obama Nixon
'The operative question now is, what did the president know and when did he know it?'
Peggy Noonan accused unnamed members of the Obama administration of treason, and did not have a whiff of evidence to support it. Her entire argument was that the administration would benefit from the leaks (an arguable proposition) so therefore they must be responsible for them.
I don't recall similar outrage when high officials in the Bush administration outed Valerie Plame as part of a political vendetta against her husband, or when Scooter Libby was convicted for perjurious testimony about the leaks. Or the numerous leaks about purported WMD or connections between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda, all of which turned out to be phony.
I'm not surprised to see the Wall Street Journal or any part of Murdoch's emire ,engaging in baseless attacks against Obama. I thought that Noonan the exemplar of black-cocktail-dress-and-pearls Republicanism would have higher standards.
Agreed. Did you see the footage of Rachel Maddow questioning protesters in Alaska? Maddow was covering the race between Lisa Murkowski and Joe Miller, and as she and her film crew were leaving a building they walk past a group of people protesting against Eric Holder. They are very angry claiming Holder is trying to take away their guns. When Rachel asks them for details (facts), they end up admitting they are clueless about it but are sure that Holder is trying to take their guns away.
Apparently this conspiracy theory--that Holder and the Obama administration--are trying to orchestrate a crisis using Fast and Furious to get folks to favor gun control was started by a wacko blogger, and since embraced by Chuck Grassley and Jeff Sessions. It's bad enough that fringe idiots like the group in Alaska lack Rule of Reason, but when congressional leaders jump on board, we as a nation should be appalled, shocked, and demanding that ignoramuses like Grassley and Sessions be thrown out.
If anything, President Obama has increased gun freedoms, such as packing heat in national parks. Gun control is not a priority issue for this president. What's even more absurd is the crap about how he is just pretending he won't take folks guns away in order to get reelected. Holy f-n cow, really, seriously?
livinglouisiana -- Then why don't Teapublicans like Issa seriously investigate the death of agent Brian Terry? The GOP/TP are not focusing at all on this man's death. They are not serious about the investigation period, otherwise they would call witnesses from the Bush administration and research the entire matter going back to the earlier programs such as Operation Wide Receiver.
benr-3287919 -- Very funny, the Tea party people have some kind of exclusive ownership of the Constitution (until they want to amend it), and President Obama does not belong in the White House because he fails to lead (code for because he is black), and this is further substantiated by summoning the name of Carter from a far away past -- a favorite rightwing talking point these days. Riiiight.
Turn of FOX Noise and get some real information.
Newt Gingrich is licking his chops at the idea of Teapublicans arresting Holder for contempt. Gees, you'd think this would give the GOP/TP pause, seeing how Gingrich's ideas have tanked them in the past.
What I don't understand is, Why hasn't the responsible party or parties been discovered and held accountable? If it was from the previous administration, fine. The Terry family and the American people deserve an answer. This isn't about Holder, Issa or the President. It is about justice plain and simple.
People question why Issa doesn't investigate the death of Brian Terry. That's a good question. If he doesn't think he is receiving an honest answer from the top of the DOJ, maybe starting at the bottom and working his way up might be a solution.
My problem with President Obama and Eric Holder is that Brian Terry has been dead for almost 2 years and we still don't know who is responsible for authorizing the program that President and Holder have denied involvement or knowledge.
Now, I know if I had some rebel in my organization doing things without my knowledge and I found out, you can bet that I would be involved in that investigation and someone would be held accountable. It's like the GSA scandal...the guy is still on the government pay roll.
Call it a witch hunt or whatever you want, unless Holder holds someone accountable, running to daddy to invoke executive privilege isn't providing the Terry family the justice that I would want for anyone's family.
Everything that I have read on this describes the beginning of this program by Bush and his AG. As for the death of Terry, it seems that investigation is still ongoing by the DOJ.
If anyone has information that counters what I have said, please give links so that I may read.
@TReed--why invoke executive privilege if the program began under the Bush administration and neither Obama or Holder had authorized the operation?
I can't say that I know why executive privledge was invoked. Is it to agitate the Republicans? Do the requested documents have names they want to protect? Maybe there is a cover up? Of course, the vote that Issa's committee was to push the contempt charge to the full house. Only the full house can make a formal charge of contempt. But with the executive privledge invoked, one has to ask if a contempt charge is even viable? And if it is discovered that there was no cover up, then what does that mean for Issa and the Republicans.
But, like I said, this is what I have read so far and if you have links to show other, then I would like to see the information.
This is the reason why if I was Issa, I would work from the bottom up. Start with the officer in charge of the ATF. The little guys will not want to take the fall. They will "sell out" who authorized the operation to save their own butts.
If I was Issa, I would have tried to ask Holder first, but once "Executive Privilege" is invoked, there is no choice but to work from the bottom to the top.
One of the US weapons may not have been used to kill Officer Terry. But, the fact that the President of Mexico was unaware that a US government operation was put in place by both, the Bush and Obama administrations, is a violation of international law. Yes, arms from one country are sent to another country all the time. But, in this case, there is a trail and the US was caught. A law was violated and someone needs to be held accountable.
Most corrupt?
Given how much secrecy there was in the Bush years, it's really kinda hard to tell isn't it?
No, it is not.
So you're convinced huh Ben?
Yes.
Youngsters like Ben should read up on Nixon and the Watergate years to learn what corruption really is...
And I note there were even a few geriatric holdovers from that era who were advising Bush 43... Karl Rove began his shenanigans during that era, and Donald Rumsfeld was part of Tricky Dick's team...
not at all....it is very easy to discern that obama is a liar, a distorter, and a divider....
WATERGATE !!!! Obama Just steeped in it ... Cover -UP .
Frank H - it's not hard to tell. Bush did a better job at being secretive. So that's just another thing Obama can't do right.
How? In YOUR own mind?
So you RWNJ's are full of poutrage because the President invoked Executive privilege in an effort to put a stop to this ridiculous time and money consuming non-troversy huh....
You GOP=TEA people believe Obama should explain to you all the facts and involvment.
Well, here is a FLASH for you: "See, that is the interesting thing about being President; [he doesn't] have to explain."
[Precedent employed by, and above quote from, President G. W. Bush, so DON'T try to hold President Obama to some different, more stringent standards. You were okay with it 2001-2009, don't be hypocritical and try to change it now. See: that is why we "libbies" can't stand you selfish liars.]
You have got to be the biggest idiot on the planet. You wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in the face. According to you everything is Bush's fault? How does somebody being murdered with illegal weapons even compare to the Bush ordeal? What part don't you understand an innocent man protecting the homeland was MURDERED by the stupidity of this so called mission. We deserve answers to what happened and the Terry family deserve the truth for what happened to their son. Holder and Obama have no right to cover this up, they are NOT above the law. This stinks to high heaven and am appalled that anyone could even think to call this a witch hunt.
Obama's last-minute move to extend the umbrella of executive privilege raises the question of whether the president or his staff had extensive prior knowledge of the operation, because this privilege can ONLY be invoked when the chief executive's office is involved.
WHAT DID OBAMA KNOW; AND WHEN DID HE KNOW IT?!
Pete,
However, a contempt citation is valid only during the Congress which approved it. Each term of Congress lasts only two years, so if the issue was still in the courts when this Congress ends in a year and a half, the contempt citation would evaporate, and so would any lawsuit.
Doesn’t this congress end in 6 ½ months – not a year and a half – or did I misread what you said?
Ben-636050
Oh Beaverly -- You are more of an idiot than I imagined. You O'Whores don't even want to touch the economy. LMAO.
That is because U R a stupid ass moron. Laugh you ass off idiot. You still lose/lost I bet 10,000 votes.
In case you missed... the pen is still sitting on President Obama's desk. Your stupid ass repub t-baggers /GOP leaders are letting ecomomic bills languish in Congress just to wreck the econmy. People are sick of your do nothing, nation destroying, lying ass, t-baggers & GOP leaders.
Get it moron???
Very astute observation Dennis. That is how I read it as well. This looks to be a moot point no matter how anyone wants to spin it.
But the broader point still remains. Our laws are so vast and complicated that even the highest ranking courts can't come to a viable legal conclusion in most cases.
Isn't it time for a complete revamp of the laws so that things are not always in a "gray" area?
Oh Beaverly -- spread them wider Hussein wants to put that pen where Clinton put that cigar. You are a racist, lying, no good thinkamaging (got that from POS Hussein.
Yeah, well, Barry is only going to last another 7 months anyway. So why bother with all the hearings and so forth, save the money, and spend on something useful when the South Side boys are back in Chicago or Washington bilking clients out of millions to keep playing the good ole stall game that lawyers are so good at.
Ben-636050
Oh Beaverly -- spread them wider Hussein wants to put that pen where Clinton put that cigar. You are a racist, lying, no good thinkamaging (got that from POS Hussein
Ben,
You like living Dangerously??? I'm not talking about STDS either.
Remember more lives have been lost over the Vajayjay; even wars. You are a man, I guess, you should know about how dangerous a Vajayjay can be; moron.
The laws have been changed to a grey area in order for the highest paid lawyer to 'win' the case. Calling our Judicial system 'justice' is appalling. It has become innocence for the wealthiest (i.e., those who can afford the pricey lawyers), while the poor (stuck with public pretenders) are conned into plea bargains regardless of their guilt or innocence in order to keep the machine moving.
especially yours, ewwwww! If shes going to talk about it ....its fair errrrr ummmm "game" lol!
Especially yours Beaverly -- can't image what is crawling up in there.
This subponea - if issued - is only good until Jan 2013!
There's so much transparency with this administration you can get sunburned on a cloudy day jut walking near the Whitehouse.
You speak the truth Mick. That's why you would be very smart to wear sun tan lotion.
I hate Obama. I hate him and I can't wait for Romney to be elected.
Obama wants to take out guns away. That's all Fast and Furyous is about. But we won't let Obama take away our guns. Semper Fi.
Who's with me?
Too bad that only the Republicans had the spine to vote against Holder. The Democats are just protecting their own.
But I wonder if contempt of Congress is the right way to go. What dos it matter? It won't make Obama and Holder hand over the docs. What happened when the Democrats in the house voted to hold Bush officials in contempt? Nothing. It's a lot of of noise about nothing!!
not a russian - President Obama is NOT wanting to take your guns away. Your speculation on that subject has already been disproven (source: www. politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/jun/15/nra-right-obama-coming-our-guns/). You may as well say that President Bush was using gun walking to try to take your guns. It would have as much accuracy.
I voted for Obama but hate that he wants to take our guns away without amending the Constitution (the only legal way to do it). Yo, isn't he a Constitutional lawyer?
Beverly in Chicago, you are such an uninformed liberal beeotch
Isn't it a shame we can not bring congress up on "contempt of American Citizens" charges?
If ever there was a slam dunk case this would be it.
Amen, boomer.
If Congress spent half as much time on jobs bills as it does on witch hunts, our economy would be at full employment.
You have a better chance of being struck by lightning twice in one day.
Boomer: I'm with you! Hear! Hear! I'm holding the whole stupid House in contempt!
If life is like a box of chocolates. Whoever the hell opened the one with Obama and Holder in it would you please do us a favor and put them back in the box.
LyndaAZ: so you "hold the whole stupid House in contempt?" Really...how would you feel if you were a member of Brian Terry's family? Wouldn't you want to know what really happened and who's responsible? I know that I would.
TypicalBS... It only took 6 posts for one of Feisty Dum Fux cronies to pull the race card! What a miserable Joke~! Just like the current administration... Both sides I might add!
I find that the most racist people are the ones who spend so much time trying to deny it...Denying and Justifying racism does not make it any less racist. If you are denying or justifying that racism has nothing to do with the republican party and their supporters and the tea party...you are totally blind and in denial. Its all about fear and ignorance...and those on this post who are racist are really pretty easy to spot. They use the words "race card" a lot...
So then.....if you deny it you are....and if you are you are?
Right Jolly. If you are innocent, it's only because you are in denial. If you are guilty of something you might be innocent, or in denial, or both, or something. Either way, none of those count. You are guilty because.....uhmmm, let's see, how does that go again. Oh yeah.. if I call Tim a petty thief, and he denies it, it's because he is guilty. Got it? I don't. LOL
Tim: sounds like "Catch 22"...if you say you are a racist then you are a racist, if you say that you aren't a racist, you are a racist. Gotta love your logic....not really.
I was gonna pound him on it yesterday....but then I thought....wait a minute, you just can't fix stupid... that's why I didn't try! It doesn't pay to have a battle of wits when your opponent is unarmed!
Obama is a dirty little black rat! Cant belieive you weak minded pathertic Americans that voted him into office...pathetic
JustanotherVeteran: see Rightwingtexan74's post above.
Rightwingtexan74
Obama is a dirty little black rat! Cant belieive you weak minded pathertic Americans that voted him into office...pathetic
Are you a dirty little white lab rat? You sure act like an experiment the Koch bros put in place. Astroturf; Wheeeee. I bet it is fun for you spinning around.
Rep. Issa has a criminal record but is doing his best to force AG Holder to commit a crime. Ordering Holder to hand over documents that the President has as classified would mean Holder would be fired. Not many people are ordered to commit a crime and then fire them for committing the crime you ordered them to do. Issa is clearly an idiot along with his own criminal record. Issa's gun charged is still public record and the scam/stolen car charge that his brother took the blame to cover for him. How do criminals get elected to office. Next we'll see Bernie Madoff get out of jail and run for Congress.
Show us proof of a criminal record or conviction loud mouth.
jackierawlings,
Seriously..do you expect anyone to beleive that bs garbage that your posting?? I bet your wrists flap when you type your posts obama lovin butt pirate
In the San Jose case, Issa, who at the time was a 27-year-old U.S. Army officer, and William Issa, 29, were arrested by San Jose police on a felony auto-theft charge in February 1980.
They were accused of a scheme in which Issa's brother allegedly sold Issa's cherry-red Mercedes 240 to Smythe European Motors in San Jose for $13,000 cash and three $1,000 traveler's checks. Within hours, Issa reported the car stolen from a lot at the Monterey airport, near his Army post at Fort Ord.
Issa and his brother pleaded not guilty. A judge ordered them to stand trial on felony charges, saying he had a "strong suspicion" that the men had committed the crime, according to the records.
CASE DISMISSED
But in August 1980, a prosecutor dismissed the case for lack of evidence. The men later were charged with misdemeanors, but that case was not pursued, said retired police detective Richard Christiansen, lead investigator in the case.
Issa, 49, became a multimillionaire manufacturer of electronic auto alarms, including the popular "Viper" anti-theft device. "When people ask me why I got into the car alarm business, I tell them the truth," he said in a statement to The Chronicle. "It was because my brother was a car thief."
He was elected to Congress in 2000 from the San Diego County town of Vista after losing a bruising, high-profile campaign for the Republican nomination for the U.S. Senate in 1998.
In those campaigns, Issa denied allegations of car theft and sought to blame political opponents, including U.S. Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) for planting news stories about the allegations to discredit him.
"They can't beat us on a good stand-up-for-families, stand-up-for-law-and-order type agenda," he told the Riverside Press Enterprise during his 1998 Senate Race. "They have to do it with lies in the last minute of the campaign."
THE BEARDED LIEUTENANT CAPER
The San Jose case began on Dec. 28, 1979, when a bearded man identifying himself as "Lt. Darrell Issa" and using Darrell Issa's Ohio driver's license for identification drove up to Smythe European Motors on Stevens Creek Boulevard in a new Mercedes and said he wanted to sell it.
In a preliminary hearing, salesman Norris Poulsen testified that the driver -- police contended it was Issa's brother, using Darrell Issa's driver's license for identification -- agreed to take $16,000 for the car. Then he asked for a ride to a nearby Bank of America branch.
There, the driver obtained $13,000 cash and three $1,000 travelers' checks, said teller Marcela Lawrence.
Meanwhile, according to the records, Darrell Issa had called police, saying that upon his return from a Christmas vacation in Ohio he had discovered his Mercedes was missing from the parking lot at the Monterey airport. The car's pink slip had been locked in the trunk, Issa told police.
Read more: #ixzz1yMGWpyT9
Google it - there are truck loads of articles showing Issa and brother car thiefs.
Elise, SF: so what you are presenting here is some information to discredit Darrell Issa...even if this is true...does it take away the issue that we had a border patrol agent, Brian Terry, killed by a gun that was most likely part of the F and F contraversy? Isn't it important to you to know the truth about what really happened and who knew and who is ultimately responsible? I know that do and many more Americans do.
Now what?? We will hear a lot of self righteous clap-trap about the rule of law, threats of impeachment and all that garbage form Republicans and President Obama will simply do exactly what President Bush did -- tell the House to go pound sand. Nothing is going to come of this other than a whole lot of grand-standing. Remember -- Congress has a 13% approval rating so almost NOBODY has any respect for anything they do.
THE LONGEST DAY: EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE...
The privilege covers only communications made directly to the president and among his White House advisers, Obama cannot claim executive privilege "to cover Eric Holder". That's illegal.
“The White House decision to invoke executive privilege implies that White House officials were either involved in the Fast and Furious operation or the cover-up that followed.
Just as Nixon was not allowed to claim executive privilege to cover up a crime; neither can Obama.
Like a child testing his limits, Obama will test his limits and continue to make illegal decrees as long as no one challenges him.
It is the job of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform to stop Obama from abusing his power. Otherwise we will only see a lot more of it.
Ben -- LOVE your comments they are spot on. I think bev is going to have a stroke maybe she should cut back on the kool aid.
Thank you.
Ben is messed up in the head. Apparently it isn't as obvious as I thought.
She needs to remove the liberal c ock from her ass
So Dotties girl - you don't think Ben's mom should wash his mouth with soap? I think First Read should ban him for life. Wait till he calls you a wh---e - be happy then?
Radical Righties only have trashing.
Obama/Biden 2012
And your ok with what Beverly says on a daily basis?
Hey Ben I bet you didn't know you republicans whored yourselves out by supporting Saddam.
Suck on that for a while
I cant beleive all you dems/libs that defend Holder, and Obama! You prove to America what kind of lying scum that you are. Well you'll are on your way out the door 2012..yea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"You prove to America what kind of lying scum that you are."
Funny -- whenever a right winger attempts to describe liberals, they seem to always end up describing themselves instead.
Well said.
Is it me or does holder look like a black version of groucho marks??
Typical right-wing racist comment.
if he used the word purple would that have been ok?
Oh I don't know. Funny when you try to "get" someone you might lose control of what comes out. One of the interesting things is that some Americans will sell guns by the hundreds to just about any body. The ATF commited the offense of not interdicting guns, one of which killed officer Terry and some people want to impeach the President over it. But they don't want to regulate the scum that sold the guns.Lenin was right about one thing. If you want to hang a capitalist, another capitalist will sell you the rope. In this case if you're in a cartel and you want to kill American border patrol agents, another American will sell you all the guns you need.
Like a child testing his limits, Obama will test his limits and continue to make illegal decrees as long as no one challenges him.
It is the job of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform to stop Obama from abusing his power. Otherwise we will only see a lot more of it.
Can't trust anything PMS-NBC publishes... a lie a minute operation...
An American was murdered by Obama's gun-running scheme - I'd like to see the documentation! Hey, like you liberals say, "what's there to hide?"
Obama said "when you can't trust the AG, he should be fired" about Bush's AG! So fire this liar!
Obama said, "The president should not use Exec Priv to cover himself" about Bush! So why is BO trying to hide??? I thought he said, he knew nothing about F&F!!! As Wilson said, "Liar! Liar!"
We have WORSE than Nixon in office right now! And if you liberals support this, you have no morals on top of no sense of decency! Just like NBC
The difference, which these liberal morons at NBC didn't mention, is the fact that gun trafficking is a crime which has sent many gun store owners to jail. The Federal government under the jurisdiction of the Attorney General and ultimately the President are hiding the facts surrounding this and should be held accountable.
Dirty obama dosent want Americans to know the truth this close to the election.
'A Very Nixonian Mistake'...
"When the President does it, that means that it's not illegal." ~ Richard M. Obama Nixon
'The operative question now is, what did the president know and when did he know it?'
The Dem hypocrites are out in force.
If this were a Republican cover-up, they'd be screaming....
Obama...Mr. Transparency, right?
Invoking "executive privilege" at the nth hour?
Naaahh.....nothing to see here. Move along....
What the liberal trolls here refuse to accept is the documents requested- and those that Obama is now trying to PROTECT, involve the RETRACTED letter stating that the Administration did NOT KNOW that F&F was a GUNRUNNING operation....
This is NOT a matter of National Security.
It IS a matter of "who knew what"....
They LIED, and they are about to be caught...
Like a rat caught in the flashlight...
Obama has just made the fatal mistake of covering for his Chicago pal Holder...or, perhaps himself...
He has just exacerbated the situation.
Brian Terry's family deserves answers.
Not the leftist spew about "Bush".
The Obama supporters here a soooo grasping at straws trying to defend this hypocrisy that it's laughable...
NO ONE, Democrat, Republica, Independent- should accept this attempt at a cover up.
By the way, this Congress ends in seven months/December 31, 2012 not a year and a half from now.
Good to know with 20 million americans out of work, schools closing left and right, states bankrupt, student debt at crisis levels, this is the nonsense we are worrying about. At least I know now why our government can't get anything useful done!!
John: you tell Brian Terry's family that this is "nonsense".
What about the dead border patrol agent?
What about the guy who sold the gun that killed him? He wasn't just some nice gunny. The ATF was watching the sellers who were habitually selling hundreds of guns to straw buyers. One was related to a street racing crew. Hence the name Fast&Furious.
My, my, look at the blankets fly! If this administration is transparent, all of this garbage should be public, Holder should be indicted and fired, and Barry should be impeached for lying.
BUSTER-1243558
Beverly in Chicago, you are such an uninformed liberal beeotch
Did you mother raise you to be a little pussy; BUSTER ? It sure seems like it.
I find it interesting that Beverly, Holder and Obama all originated in Chicago. That explains a lot. None of them know how to think, - Obama can only speak when he has a teleprompter to tell him what to say, Holder has someone write letters for him.. and Beverly? well, what can we say about her? Is "pussy" a politically correct word?
Any moment Spike Lee will be tweeting the address of Sen.Issa and calling on the Black Panthers to put a bounty on his head. Of course he will get the address wrong. LOL
Racism is this when a president and Atty. Gen. stand in front of the American people and call for justice for Travon Martin. Then invoke executive privilege to prevent the American people from seeing justice for a citizen, civil servant and member of law enforcement? It kind of makes you wonder doesn't it?
Justice for the Terry family!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its hard to tell with Bev..... whether she is talking about her poor cat or her Vagina.
why are you people on MSNBC website? are you tired of listening to the bull on fox noise? so are we so go hang out somewhere else and peddle your bull!
anamericanpaidriot - A lot of us are here for sport. I don't think there is anything more amusing than watching the Chicago folks heads burst with their self-righteous indignation. Any other spots where the baiting is as good?
So called Anamericanparriot We thought we would try to make MSNBC "Fair and Ballanced" Besides someone has to get the truth out on this site. Not afraid of the Consertive Side are you? I figured after three and a half years of Liberialism running the country and getting us to this condition, some true Consertive thought might make the country a better place. Couldn't hurt.
Every time the Democrats have the White House, the Republicans have to waste our time with litigation and investigations, that waste taxpayer money. This program started under Bush, and the papers they are requesting would be a violation of law for Holder to provide. In two years we have had a Congress that has held the people of this nation in contempt. Can we hold the GOP members of Congress in contempt? We ought to!
Pssst Russ holder walked back the Bush story. He said Mr.Bush and his atty gen didnt know. ooOoOPs
Russ Kissell: not matter whether this issue started under Bush or not, Brian Terry deserves justice and his family deserves to learn the truth about who's ultimately responsible for his death. If you were a member of Brian Terry's family, I'm sure that you would have a different opinion.
Really??? How can anybody defend this? Somebody was killed !!!! And the Left is defending Holder and Obama on their Rights to with hold information because Bush did it. If you are from the Right or Left ...dont you want an answer? What is wrong with you people.... You would rather your Political Party save face than find the answer to somebody's son or husband that was killed ......You people make me sick!!!!! My wife leans Left I lean Right... We are both sickened by what Holder and Obama are doing right now......Somebody has died unecessarily and because you are so blinded by Politics ...you dont want to know the truth.... You should be ashamed!!!!!
So, we have another potential WASTE of taxpayers' money by the very people who say they don't want this money WASTED. Any lawsuit to force the question of presidential power is going to cost MONEY.
Of course, the Republicans are doing this because the Democrats did it while W was in office.
SO ABSURD!
Really John? Do you think the families of all those killed because of this would call it a "waste of money"? Can you really say Holder didn't ball faced lie? If he would've been truthful from the get-go, we wouldn't be doing this today. WE THE PEOPLE have GOT to hold WHOMEVER is in power accountable. I know you think it's o.k. for this to be overlooked because your guy is in office. How about we ALL start holding ALL of our representatives to the fire when they do something wrong?!! Let's start now since we can't go back.
This should go to the Supreme Court, that way it will not just dissapear. Obama said he would make Governmment transparent, I guess this is his idea of making the American people wear a blindfold in a glass white house.
John... somebody's son and or husband was KILLED! People want answers....and you are worried about money and questioning a President??? What is wrong with this world? What are wrong with the morals of both Democrats and Republicans? Hey ...he gives the documents over to ISSA....What is everybody afraid of.... Holder will be found that he has done nothing wrong...and we move forward.....
Here's an answer you probably don't want to hear. If all of your fellow Americans would stop abusing drugs, a whole lot of law enforcement officers and innocent Mexicans would be a lot safer. No body wants to own up to the fact that people are paying with their lives so that they can get high.
Do you liberals not understand that those documents were subponead, and Holder and Obama are withholding them which is violation to the constitutional law??? Geez you idiot libs are bafoons!!!! Your messiah is breaking the law...wake the f uck up idiots
Really? Which "constitutional law" is it in violation of?
And you call others idiots?
Rightwingtexan74
Do you liberals not understand that those documents were subpoenaed, and Holder and Obama are withholding them which is violation to the constitutional law??? Geez you idiot libs are buffoons!!!! Your messiah is breaking the law...wake the f uck up idiots
Do you understand the documents Holder didn't release are classified ? It would be against the law. I said yesterday Issa would not accept anything the AG offered him for his witch hunt.
Now that I've been proven correct, it's so nice to see that rat Issa has fallen in his own cauldron swirling around trying to figure out what happened.
did you sleep through the Bush Administration or what!
Maybe you could ask Dick Cheney that question. Remember all of those emails that somehow got destroyed when the prosecuter was investigating the Valerie Plame case?