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Subscribe to RSSWalker wins and labor loses: If you’re going to try to kill the king, you better make sure you succeed… What helped Walker: Many didn’t think the recall was legitimate… Advice: Don’t put a lot of stock into the commentary that has November figured out after last night… Is the GOP’s message of economic optimism (in WI, OH, VA) helping Obama?... Looking at turnout and party ID… How the exit polls work… And breaking down some of last night’s other results.
Darren Hauck / Reuters
Republican Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker waves as he celebrates his victory in the recall election against Democratic challenger and Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett in Waukesha, Wisconsin June 5, 2012.
*** Walker wins and labor loses: If you are going to try to kill the king, you better make sure you succeed. And last night in Wisconsin, organized labor and state Democrats -- who launched the recall against Gov. Scott Walker (R) -- didn’t come close to succeeding. With 99% of the vote in, Walker beat Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett (D) by seven percentage points, 53%-46%, which was almost identical to the margin in their 2010 contest. While labor and state Democrats lost the legislative battle over collective bargaining last year, they had won the public-relations fight: Walker’s approval rating declined, and the political consensus was that the Wisconsin governor had overreached. But labor and its supporters went for the kill. First, they launched recalls against GOP state senators in 2011, picking up two seats but not enough to switch control of that chamber. And then they launched their recall against Walker and lost. (A small silver lining for them: They appear to have picked up another state Senate seat, thus flipping control.) They didn’t have the patience to wait until the November presidential election or until 2014 to exact their revenge. And they lost.
The Daily Rundown's Chuck Todd recaps the Wisconsin recall election.
*** What helped Walker -- many didn’t think the recall was legitimate: Maybe the most important numbers in the exit poll from last night: Just 27% said recall elections are appropriate for any reason (and Barrett won those folks, 90%-9%). By comparison, 60% said that recalls are legitimate only for official misconduct (and Walker won them, 68%-31%), while another 10% said recalls are never appropriate (and Walker won here, 94%-5%). Bottom line: Walker benefited greatly from the fact that many Wisconsin voters didn’t think the premise of last night’s recall was legitimate. Indeed, 18% of those who said they’re supporting President Obama in November voted for Walker. Think about that for a second. What we’ve heard from some Democrats and labor folks is that they couldn’t wait; they couldn’t stop a train that was already moving. They tried to recall Walker because they could and they wanted revenge. In hindsight, it sure looks like it was a decision made in haste, like during a temper tantrum. But if they had seen the entire forest -- that there’s a higher standard for a recall, that Walker was going to have a sizable war chest, and that their nominee was going to have less than a month to run a general-election campaign, that they were NOT going to be able to recruit an elder statesman as their nominee (think Herb Kohl) -- would they have reconsidered?
*** What do last night’s results say about November? Well, Republicans saw some very good signs, especially when it comes to turnout. But the Obama White House and Chicago campaign headquarters can also take comfort that the exit poll shows Obama beating Romney by seven points, 51%-44%, and it even shows him slightly ahead of Romney on improving the economy, 42%-38%. In fact, the exit poll only validates the White House’s decision to stay away from the recall, especially given the numbers that didn’t think the recall was legitimate. We learned that a united Republican Party is going to beat a Democratic Party that wasn’t all-in in Wisconsin. But is that what it’s going to look like in November? Bottom line: Don’t put a lot of stock into the folks who think they have November figured out after last night. If anything, Wisconsin still looks a lot more Pennsylvania (a state floating between Lean Dem and Toss-up) than Iowa (which is a battleground where Obama has some work to do). That said, Chicago ought to realize -- if they didn’t before -- that this isn’t 2008. They are facing a Republican Party that is better financed and more organized than they’ve been since 2004. Team Obama may have a very good ground game, but it’s not OVERLY superior to the GOP’s right now.
*** Is the GOP’s message of economic optimism helping Obama? Here’s a related thought: Are the constant reminders by Walker and the Republican Governors Association that the economy has improved in Wisconsin helping Obama in that state? As we mentioned above, according to the exit poll, Obama narrowly beat Romney on the economy -- and we haven’t seen numbers like that nationally. Indeed, GOP governors in a handful of important battleground states (like Bob McDonnell in Virginia and John Kasich in Ohio) have touted the economic progress in their states. Does that optimistic message -- which is counter to the message Mitt Romney is campaigning on -- ultimately help Obama? That’s something to watch over the next five months…
*** Turnout and party ID: Turnout last night in Wisconsin was higher than 2010, but not quite at 2008 levels. Both Walker and Barrett got more votes than they each got in 2010. Here’s how it breaks down:
2012: 2,503,745 (Walker 1,331,076- Barrett 1,158,337)
2010: 2,160,832 (Walker 1,128,941- Barrett 1,004,303)
2008: 2,983,417 (Obama 1,677,211- McCain 1,262,393)
Meanwhile, note the party ID from last night’s exit poll: Dem 34%, GOP 35%, indie 31%. In 2008, that split was Dem 39%, GOP 33%, indie 29%. In 2010, it was Dem 37%, GOP 36%, indie 27%. And in 2004, per NBC’s Natalie Cucchiara, it was Dem 35%, GOP 38%, indie 27%. Bottom line: 2008 was an anomaly in Wisconsin, which explains why Wisconsin was so close in the 2000 and 2004 presidential elections.
*** How exit polls work: We saw plenty of commentary last night that because the initial exit polls were all over the place -- first showing a slight lead for Walker, then a 50%-50% race, and then a comfortable Walker lead -- they’re not to be trusted. But it’s important to point out that these exit polls get weighted throughout the night, and the current numbers are pretty good. Here’s how an exit poll works: Say you survey 50 key precincts, and you find out that “Republicans in Precinct 50 said this” or “Democrats in Precinct 35 said that.” What they said is true. But what you don’t know is how many Democrats or Republicans there actually were. But once you find that out, the data is weighted. But the most important missing ingredient in last night’s exit polls was the lack of data on absentee voters. It appears the absentee turnout was higher than 15% -- a full five percentage points than previous estimates (or the 2010 race). And Republicans clearly did a lot better with absentees. The INITIAL findings of the exit poll (far too much of which goes public) was based ONLY on Election Day voters. The current poll has now been reweighted…
*** Last night’s other results: Elsewhere last night, Martin Heinrich easily beat Hector Balderas in New Mexico’s Dem SEN primary, and he’ll take on Heather Wilson in the fall… In New Jersey’s congressional member-vs.-member race, Bill Pascrell (backed by Bill Clinton) beat Steve Rothman (backed by Obama)… And in California, “birther” Orly Taitz failed to win the right to challenge Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D) in the fall; Elizabeth Emken won that honor by finishing second in that “jungle primary.”
*** Bill Clinton: Here we go again: The biggest non-election news last night was what Bill Clinton said about the Bush tax cuts in an interview on CNBC. Republicans made lots of hay out this story from the interview: “Former President Bill Clinton told CNBC Tuesday that the US economy already is in a recession and urged Congress to extend all the tax cuts due to expire at the end of the year.” But Clinton also said he opposed their permanent extension, as the GOP wants. Clinton’s office later put out a statement, saying that “he supported extending all of the cuts in 2010 as part of the budget agreement, but does not believe the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans should be extended again. In the interview, he simply said that he doubted that a long-term agreement on spending cuts and revenues would be reached until after the election.”
Countdown to GOP convention: 82 days
Countdown to Dem convention: 89 days
Countdown to Election Day: 153 days
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There’s got to be a morning after;
The bad news is, the voters of WI have spoken & decided to Walker a second chance .
The good news is;
1.) President Obama is still leading Willard by 7 points or better in a swing state in November.
2.) Democrats have regained control of the WI Senate.
3.) Walker had to spend obscene amounts of money to save his j-o-b.
4.) Best of all;
Wisconsin may very well join Illinois tradition of sending corrupt Governors off to jail!
So, I’ll let the RWNJ’s take their victory lap today & feast on their bravado…
Me?
I’m moving on… there are more important fish to fry… like the elusive flip-flopping Willard-fish!
Feisty, morning,
The only thing GOP/Koch is really creative about is tearing us down, while skewing benefits to those with the big money. So they can lord it over us.
They are going after hope and change - because that is what WE want, and we said so.
A big part of the GOP/Koch mission is to create a sense of Hopelessness, using creative ways to make us feel that our hands our tied - and unable to fight back.
The Walker/Romney/Ryan message about Change is:
You think things are bad? Well, watch us make things a a whole LOT worse, if you don't buckle under and do it all our way.
LMFAO!!!!!
53% to 46%
It wasn’t even close.
Barrett and the lefty liberal Dems weren’t just losers, they were:
The BIGGEST Losers
Kicked in the A$$
KO’d
Beaten with the ugly stick
Slaughtered
Bitch-slapped
Taken out to the woodshed
Clubbed like baby fur seals
Shown the door
Bosox fans waiting for their next World Series rings
Crash test dummies
George Costanza-ed
Jimmy Carter-ed
Good grief, it wasn't even close. The people of Wisconsin have spoken and the message is taxpayers refuse to be held hostage by public sector unions. Actually, Wisconsin voters have sent that message several times in the last couple of years -- but maybe now the know nothing left will finally listen.
How the unions and their allies thought they could win the hearts and minds of the public with their raucous behavior last summer is beyond me. They sealed their fate with their contemptible tactics, from legislators who deliberately subverted the democratic process by hiding out of state to the unruly hooligans who occupied the capital building. Every one of these jokers got exactly what they deserved last night
And thanks to an impressive majority in Wisconsin, the rest of us have taken a big step towards getting what we deserve. And what we deserve is political leadership with the fortitude and backbone to stand up to those who put their narrow interests ahead of the broader interests of the taxpayers who pay their salaries. Because make no mistake, the Wisconsin result will embolden other governors to take on the same challenges as Walker.
I just love the smell of victory this fine morning, it's a great day to be an American.
Yesterday in Wisconsin we got to see what happens when the "irrelevant" Tea Party goes head to head with Big Labor. The results?
Tea Party: 1 Unions: 0
Speaking of irrelevant...
OWS-tards:
Did you hear what Wisconsin's Lt Govenor Rebecca Kleefisch said in her victory speech?
"Now THIS is what democracy looks like..."
Take notes.
Anyway, for the most part, today I'm here as a spcectator. I hope you Liberals brought plenty of tissues...
Obama/Biden 2012? Hell no, we can't afford another four years!
How 'unexpected.'
No, not really. In fact I called Walker by 7.
See gang, I keep trying to tell you all - the information is out there. Unfortunately most rely on others for their information.
Get informed. Go to the source - the data itself, the particular codes and regulations. Do the math yourself, and stop relying on stupid chart full of spin.
It's bad out there and getting worse. Walker won because his reforms are working.
In other words he is doing the exact opposite of Governors like Quinn and Brown.
Now you folks try not to spin yourselves into the ground today.
Besides the money, money, money meme I expect to hear, I can't wait to hear how unimportant this really was from the left and how it's time to move on to more important issues.
Like contraception.
This ought to be entertaining.
"It's pretty clear that the voices of ordinary citizens are at permanent risk of being drowned out by uninhibited corporate spending," said Michelle Ringuette, an official with the American Federation of Teachers.
That's a line from a WaPo story on the Wisconsin result. And it's a major talking point the vanquished left is using to explain their resounding defeat – i.e., big money courtesy of Citizens United is what did them in. But someone is going to have to explain to me how "uninhibited corporate spending" translates into drowning out the "voices of ordinary citizens." After all corporations don't vote, citizens do. And the citizens of Wisconsin – being the free Americans they are – are under no obligation to cast their ballots based on the last political ad they saw.
In fact, lots of folks get darned tired of seeing the tsunami of political ads that emerge during election season, and it's not clear how many folks are actually paying attention to them towards the end. But even if they are paying attention, political ads are basically just pithy arguments that try to persuade the viewer to see the world a certain way. If the message is falling on receptive eyes, then those ads have a chance to work. But if other folks think the message is just thinly veiled snake oil, then they won't work.
And that's the real crux of this issue: the message matters. All money does is help to get that message out to a larger audience. And if "uninhibited" corporations are sending a message that doesn't resonate in the minds of "ordinary" citizens, then that message will fall on deaf ears. But if that message touches a nerve in the electorate, then it might reinforce the opinion some citizens already have and even persuade others who had not yet made up their minds.
Here's the bottom line: the unions didn't lose yesterday because they were outspent, they lost because their message was soundly rejected by a strong majority of Wisconsin voters. The sooner the unions and their left wing allies come to grips with that reality, the sooner they will be able to construct a message that would be appealing to most voters. But if they don't do that, then they will remain the walking dead just going through the motions in elections they have no chance of winning -- which is just what conservatives would expect them to do.
Good morning Fiesty, Backhouse and all my liberal friends. It's a great morning. the
53% to 46%
Well, THAT puts the lie to the OWS Bozo’s 1% vs 99% BS.
Did anyone else enjoy the irony in the win/loss percentages being virtually identical to the percentages of people who actually pay income taxes (53%) and the people getting an income tax free ride (47%)??
Would one of the FR lefty liberals tell me that fairy tale about how America is not a center-right country. It’s one of my all-time favorites.
Oh and gang - can you see how completely clueless the so call experts are?
THese political reporters are either dumb or dishonest.
Based upon the exit polls they said initially it was too close to call, that the results would take all night. Then about 45 minutes later they called it.
They then admitted the exit polling was bad. Yet today they continue to rely on that very same exit polling to say Obama is all good.
Spanky what are you doing up so early? It must be your Rocky mountiain high,
May I suggest the next time you want a cheap thrill try bunge jumping or ambulance chasing.
I am sooooooooo looking forward to watching the MSDNC prime time Stooges lineup tonight as they try to spin this one. And I hope Jon Stewart does another round of his game show that he did on Monday night about the Friday jobs report: Polish This Turd. It was Hillaryous and a version centering on the Walker recall will he even FUNNIER!!
Last night’s MSDNC prime time Stooges lineup had a couple of Hillaryous moments I caught while channel surfing:
Mr. Ed on his 8:00 show where he was so giddy with anticipation I was sure that, just below the camera shot, Richard Trumka was giving him a BJ and Trumka’s mustache was tickling Mr. Ed. The contrast with that was the look on Mr. Ed’s face at 9:45 right after NBC News call the race for Walker. Hillaryous!!!!!
Best of all was the winner of the Most Delusional Moron award which goes to Larry O who opened his show with “The big winner tonight in Wisconsin is…. Barack Obama.” He’s gone so far around the bend that he will likely soon be folloing the biggest pompous a$$ on the planet, Keith Olbermann, over to current TV and then into obscurity.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Gop Mess
People of Wisconsin you did well. You fought valiantly against the vicious tenatcles of the Koch-Octopus and GOP/Tea bagger tryanny. Remember an octopus will release a cloud of black ink to obscure its attacker's view. That all it is obscurity. Anytime money is poured in from out of state to confuse people. What else could it could be?
Scott walker unfavorables were 58% in Novemeber. He started the mission assigned to him by his Masters, the Koch bros, running all over this land and to FOX Noise, aka the Republican Headquarters begging for money.
Okay, righties do not bring up unions. There is no way the unions can compete with the millions of dollars Scott Walker Sugar Daddies have . He is their bytche and they are going to pimp him out all over this land.
Don't let the GOP/ Tea baggers make a mess with an austerity budget ( they do it for the ultra-rich,) . But, they will say we liberals are sour losers, jealous, and divisive. Of course, you already know that. How is it the middle and poor classes our dwindling when it's they who inflict austerity an on the budgets of our strata of society?
There is nothing intelligent to say about GOP/ Tea baggers' deceptive screed. The blocking of the Paycheck Fairness Act proved that.
About last night
According to the story posted at the WISN website, the woman was upset that Barrett conceded while people were still in line to vote in Milwaukee. Though most polls had closed, some remained open for people who were in line to vote by 8 p.m.
http://elections.wispolitics.com/
==============================================
Did anyone notice al those student who were turned away and the lines waiting to vote.?
Hi Bev,
In Australia, you cannot get a job, unless you a part of a union. The are in the middle of big growth right now.
So, at 11%, how does U.S. Labor have 'too much power'? It will not wash!
Rather, corporate interest groups have too much POLITICAL power, and it is time Citizens' United was brought to heel.
Ordinary working people are in the middle of a SUBJUGATION process by the right wing .
The right wing message now is:
'Vast amounts of $$money-plus-gross-Lies wins the day ~ and nothing to stop us'.
Quite an appropriate description of the Koch/Walker Team.......sad but true!...
The Koch/Walker Team proved that an entire state can be bought!
This just in after last night's astounding WI election results:
Martin Bashir has dropped that ridiculous accent and accepted a date with Piers Morgan.
Dylan Ratigan remains insignificant along with Lawrence O'Donnell, Yank and Keith.
Al Sharpton has stopped using Pennzoil 40W for hair gel.
Chris Matthews has determined the tingling in his legs was from warm urine running down them.
Ed Shultz has been admitted to Bellview.
Rachel Maddow has checked herself into the Bachmann Counseling Clinic in Minnesota.
Feisty:
There is no good news. The fact is although Democrats were able to move more Dems off their asses than in the previous election, Republicans were able to mobilize more.
Money talks, money screams. If there was ever a shred of a doubt, this election ends it. Does it matter to voters that vast amounts of money come from outside their state to influence legislation? Apparently not.
In 2010, it was inconceivable to me that Republicans would make such huge gains in Congress. Surely, voters knew the economy could not be mightily invigorated overnight, moreso since the plunge was so precipitous. Surely, they heard Republican threats to derail President Obama. Surely, they knew that the G.O.P. had made party more important than country. No, they didn't. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I was not surprised by last night's result. Saddened? Yes. Surprised? No.
The lesson is simple. America isn't for sale. It's already been bought and sold. The battles henceforth will be the crazies fighting the lazies. Last night, the crazies won. They will continue to do so because they turn out, and the lazies are helping by staying home. The right-wing will continue to tighten their death grip on the country, and yes, it is literally a death grip. They will kill this country.
The right-wing propaganda machine is very loud. It's not truth that matters, it's noise - very loud noise. Still, the truth is there for those who seek it, and the lazies are simply too lazy to find it. We get the government we deserve.
To all my lefty friends:
My condolences.
To the crazy wight-wingers:
I give you an "F" in Civics and Patriotism, but I'll give the devil his due. You have earned an "A" in loyalty, perhaps not to the country, but certainly to dogma.
I believe the left needs a little cheese with their "whine" today.
WALKER REPORTEDLY SURVIVES
Suprisingly early call, comfortable margin in recall election of controversial governor, fellow Republicans largely unquestioned by media
Big_Labor/Big_Government got it handed to them last night. The people of Wisconsin are finally saying enough of the spending, enough of the Unions/Democrats (same thing) stealing from the hard working taxpayers, enough the far in the minority unions controlling all these leftwing states (see California and Illinois for examples). The Liberals/Democrats continue to be in their state of denial over this latest thrashing. They, the Libs, were oh so excited when it looked like Walker would fall. Turns out they were completely wrong, and don't think the country hasn't taken notice of Walkers success as he stuck to conservative values to turn his state around from fiscal collapse.
And the excuses and denials will continue. The Left will whine they got outspent, but don't seem to mind when they outspend their opponents. Now MSDNC hosts are feeding the line that Walker will get indicted just to appease the few remaining nuts that watch that channel. Source: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/06/05/schultz_reacts_to_walker_win_he_could_be_indicted_in_the_next_few_days.html
And Obama abandoned his precious unions, the very unions he said he'd walk the picket line with in his "comfy-shoes". The unions aren't that stupid, they know Obama walked away from them, they'll do the same for him. At the last minute Obama sent old Bill Clinton to try and mop up the mess in Wisconsin. Obama couldn't even bring himself to step into Wisconsin as he was traveling over it going to his fundraisers last weekend. Now even the Democrats know Obama won't help them, so why should they help him?
There is going to be quite the civil war in the Democratic party over the next few months. They have to decide if they want to go with the leftist/populist and business hating policies of Obama, or take a more centrist and business friendly view.
Feisty---love your optimism this morning----maybe that has something to do with the hope we still feel!
While I'm sad to see that union bashing will still continue, I'm always proud as an American to see our democracy in action. Will also be glad to see the media's focus return to Mitt Romney---there sure is enough there to look at.
Sorry David - I'm not ready to throw the towel in yet!
Now... if somehow Willard wins in November, I will be 100% in agreement with you...
Until then, it's time to fight like our lives depend on it, because if the right regains control they very well may...
SO chilled - you think they would have thought it out to begin with, eh?
About how hard recalls are, about how much money they would need, about how the reforms were working.
Nope, not the libbies. They just wanted to protect those fantastic benefits and wages.
Oh and hey look - the dow is up today. How 'unexpected.'
Good morning Liberals, great way to start the day. I find it interesting that when things go badly for democrats, here we are swallowing our bravado and posting anyway yet when things go badly for the conservatives, they disappear into the night for a few days. It's a fine sunny day in Iowa, cheers to all those hard-working Wisconsin people who gave it their best effort. To the conservatives basking in the glow of a Walker victory, enjoy, it will be short lived.
Walker wins and labor loses - No the union criminals lose. Sorry libs, more of this to come in Nov. Fiesty you will need a new avatar. HAHAHAHA.
David - you're repeating yourself
David - you're repeating yourself
Should be fun to see how many less libbies come around here today.
As this continues to spiral downward they will withdrawal.
Why sooner or later it'll just be Feisty and a small band of merry men.
JAS1 talking about "business friendly views", how laughably ironic.
Did anybody pick up on a Paul Begala comment last night? (I know nobody watches CNN but Lawrence O'Donnell was being absolutely ridiculous last night). Anyhow, he posed the question that I was wondering. How do the unions support President Obama after has effort in Wisconsin? He basically hung them out to dry so that he would not be part of this defeat. How does he then turn round and ask them to get out the vote in November?
Team Obama, the most risk adverse group in politics.
It's different now Spanky. Conservatives aren't willing to stand around and take punches like McCain. The gloves are off and Obama and his ilk will be vetted properly this time around. The true spots will come to the surface of Obama the Jackal; Obama the Amateur; Obama the Destroyer.
P.S. -- Did you see last night in NJ where the Obama-backed candidate lost to the Clinton-backed candidate????!!!!!!! The dems will be running away from this turd in the general.
Let's see here. The dems spent $millions to get this recall election.
The republicans spent $millions to get the vote out.
I don't give a rats ass how much was spent. The people spoke loud and clear. If you have to spend money to save the country from the progressive/liberal/union agenda I will contribute. And I'm a 99%er.
Some poll workers turned away students whom they perceived as not meeting the state's 28-day residency requirement.
Many university students registered to vote on campus for the May 8 recall primary, then moved back home or elsewhere for the summer. Because of the residency requirement, students needed to either return to their campus polling place or vote absentee; they could not vote from their home address if they were registered at their university address.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/heavy-turnout-reported-across-wisconsin-gt5lvjr-157290805.html
Call me a conspiracy theorist, if you like, I'd like to know why were the people standing in the lines out side the polling places not allowed to vote when the media was predicting 50-50.
=======================================
By Brad Friedman on 6/6/2012
The early Exit Poll results had reportedly predicted the race between Republican Gov. Scott Walker and Democratic Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett a virtual tie, leading media to plan for a long night tonight. A second round of Exit Polls results, however, were said to have given Walker a broader lead over Barrett. Even so, we were told, the race based on the Exit Poll data alone was still "too close to call." That data was either accurate or it was not.
Of course, the raw, unadjusted Exit Polling data itself is no longer entrusted to us mere mortals. It can only be seen by members of the mainstream media, and we are simply left to trust them to report it all accurately to us or not. And when, after all, have we not been able to rely on the mainstream media to report everything accurately to us?
But never mind the Exit Polls. We've got real polls, real votes, actual ballots now to tell us who won or lost. If only we'd bother to actually count them...
Instead, those ballots --- Wisconsin votes on mostly paper ballots --- are tabulated by computer optical-scan systems like the ones in Palm Beach County, FL which, in March of this year, had named several losing candidates to be the "winners". And like the ones in New York City which, in 2010, managed to toss out thousands of valid votes, including as many as 70% in one South Bronx precinct. And like the ones in Oakland County, Michigan where officials found the same machines failed to count the same ballots the same way twice in 2008. And like the ones in Leon County, FL which, in 2005, were hacked to entirely flip the results of a mock election.
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=9332
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
America is for sale.
Of course this Walker business will be old news when the Supreme Court strikes down Obamacare. I guess that's the next new thing Team Obama has to look forward to. And of course there is the Democratic Convention in North Carolina. Think favorite son Johnny Edwards will be a keynote speaker?
I like the Mayor of Portland, Maine. He builds consensus, runs an open and honest office, communicates with his constituents and urges us to be a better city than we already are. To combat homelessness, the Mayor is specifically reaching out to veterans living on the street. When Occupy Portland was turning into a difficult situation, city councillors didn't throw gasoline on the camp, they worked to protect their freedom of speech while upholding city regulations. That's the kind of leadership I support, and that's why I'm a Democrat.
Waits impatiently for next Monday....lolol
Steeler Fan,
When people give up hope - what do they have left? I'm more fired up & ready to go then ever & know you're right there with me! ;o)
Jody,
I noticed that too - coincidence?
Same here!
I say, let them gloat they deserve it!
Wait until they haul Walker off in hand-cuffs...
He who laughs first... laughs last...
Jody,
The sign behind Walker "Moving Wisconsin Forward' has got to be one of the biggest jokes the ultra-right told in the last 24 hours.
Moving everyone b.a.c.k.w.a.r.d.s. in this country -- is the GOP/Koch goal, while tanking up their own wallets.
Despicable, evil games c/o Crossroads et al.
Did you see that woman bitch-slap Barrett after his concession speech?
LMFAO!!!!!
I sure do hope that was not FR’s own Anna Molly since lefty liberals are supposed to believe violence is never a solution to anything.
AM, tell me that wasn’t you.
I'm sorry about the results in Wisconsin, but now let's move on to his crimnal charges. Walker "THE LIAR" may now move on to Prison. Here's hoping. Nationwide, I see signs of President Obama becoming stronger in many States (including Wisconsin). Good news.
OBAMA IN 2012.
Jody, you gonna be anywhere near the RAGBRAI route this year?
This election also shouts loud and clear to business -- WISCONSIN IS OPEN FOR BUSINESS!!!! You will see companies choosing WI over Illinois and Minnesota and/or leaving those tax burdened dens of idiot liberalism to greener pastures in WI.
LOL!
...and in other news from Spankyville
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/07/us/politics/voters-in-california-approve-pension-cuts-results-suggest.html?_r=1&hp
So how do public unions practice democracy? That's right they try and stop the vote.
I was just reading about that Joe in Albany....Hilarious....he wanted to hug her.....she slapped him...because he conceded too early....too funny......
I heard that too Alan.
Funny thing is the political reporters [I'm looking at you Chuck Todd] is saying - "But, but, but, Romney didn't go to Wisc. either."
Yeah, so Chuck Todd when did Mitt say he was going to get a comfy pair of shoes and join the protesters in Wisc.?
Cause see Obama did. Poor Obama - he keeps jumping in early, only to have to run away when things go bad. See: Wisc., OWS.
Who the frick is Brad Friedman?????
A nobody. This is stooping to the bottom of the barrel.
They put the same guy against Walker that lost against him in 2010...and he looses again....by the same margin.....go figure.
So what's next for team O:
1. Obamacare goes down; or
2. He concedes on the tax rates and makes them permanent?
Man, he has no way out, and only terrible options for his political chances.
Downtown,
Yes, THOUSANDS of students were turned away by Walker's AB7 Section 12 law. On going after voting rights, Walker tweeted "I waited 10 years to do this".
GOP/Koch is out to disenfranchize the student voting population in this country, and it is right out in the open for all to see.
They are cocky with it.
The Justice Dept in Florida is telling Rick Scott to cease and desist -- but he feels entitled to do whatever he wants with the citizenry just like Walker, Snyder and the others.
I was thinking that same thing...who the heck is Brad???
@ Joanne
"There is going to be quite the civil war in the Democratic party over the next few months. "
Only in your dreams....
The reality is the fractures are in your party and is ole Romney a up to the task, only 89 days to the circus in Tampa?
Also reported on the news last night was the fact that the Supreme Court's ruling on the President's foul-smelling healthcare 'reform' mess will be issued before June 25th.
Boy will he have the drones launching their terror on Pakistan and Yemen if his crowning achievement in office takes a kidney punch from the Supremes ! They should start digging foxholes over there by the end of this week.
Republicans love Big Government when it props up Big Business. Such is the case with Bain. How did Romney succeed at Bain? With a lot of help from government.
Romney Critical Of Government Aid That Helped Bain Profit
By David J. Lynch - Jun 5, 2012 8:30 PM ET
Mitt Romney likes to say that “government does not create prosperity.”
His record in the private equity industry shows otherwise.
Mitt Romney during a campaign stop at Southwest Office Systems, on June 5, 2012, in Fort Worth, Texas. Photographer: Evan Vucci/AP Photo
Arsenio Muniz Rosad, who lost his job at plant after Mitt Romney's private equity firm, Bain Capital, closed it down, in Aguada, Puerto Rico, Nov. 11, 2011. The buyout of an Illinois medical company by Romney's equity firm shows the unintended human costs and messy financial consequences behind the brand of capitalism that Romney practiced for 15 years. Photographer: Christopher Gregory/The New York Times/Redux
During Romney’s years as chief executive of Bain Capital LLC, companies owned by the firm received millions of dollars in benefits from a variety of state and local government economic development programs.
In California, taxpayer money built one Bain company a conveyor bridge between two of its buildings. New York City gave another Bain company tax breaks and lower energy bills to discourage it from moving to New Jersey. And in Indiana, a county government issued bonds to help buy new equipment for a Bain-owned steel plant -- a business success featured in a Romney campaign ad touting his private sector prowess.
“From a national perspective, this makes no economic sense to allow cities and states to do this,” said Arthur Rolnick, former director of research for the Federal Reserve Bank ofMinneapolis. “In general, you want the market to be making these decisions -- not the political system.”
The public-private agreements, which began in the first decade of Romney’s tenure as CEO, show that government played a supporting role in establishing Bain as among the nation’s most successful private equity firms and enabling him to accumulate a fortune his campaign says could reach $250 million.
Criticizing Government Involvement
On the campaign trail, the presumptive Republican nominee has hammered at President Barack Obama for favoring an unhealthy government role in the economy.
“When government, rather than the market, routinely selects winners or losers, or puts its hands on the scales of justice then enterprises and entrepreneurs can’t predict their prospects,” Romney said in a March 19 speech at the University of Chicago.
Asked about the disconnect between Romney’s free market rhetoric and Bain’s track record, Amanda Henneberg, a campaign spokeswoman, said: “It’s not at all uncommon for state and local governments to use competitive incentives and programs to create a favorable business climate.”
Full story here:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-06/romney-critical-of-government-aid-that-helped-bain-profit.html
There is one development related to Wisconsin that hasn't been given much notice. While the corporate media consider it "class warfare" and an "attack on capitalism" to criticize Mitt Romney's predatory brand of capitalism, they consider it OK to vilify labor unions. One of the teabag Senator that went to Wisconsin to campaign for Walker proudly called herself a "union buster." The media yawned. But what do you think the media reaction would be if a Democratic senator proudly called himself a "corporation buster?" The media's wailing and gnashing of teeth would be deafening.
I think Walker won primarily because he spent 7 times more money than the other guy. In this country money actually buys votes. And it was mostly out of state money from big business... the 1% RULES!
The vote of college students does present a bit of an issue in elections. There's a large college across the river from me. The students move in during September and can vote in local elections just two short months later...knowing barely a whisper about local issues and politicss. Being one of the more liberal colleges in the nation, there are political action groups lined up to register the newbies to vote...and of course, the students follow thier leaders like lemmings to the polls and pull the lever for anyone with even a feint pulse and a (D) after his or her name.
I don't have a problem with them voting in national elections...but something's not right about them swinging results in local elections while knowing absolutely nothing about local issues that have effects on actual town residents who have lived in the town forever and whose lives are impacted by the votes of uninformed children who've been led to the polls by the rings in their noses.
Don't Carry, hi,
Please be sure to print this again. Romney used taxpayer money to do his nefarious bidding.
Bain was NOT used for good, but for personal profit at the expense of the livelihoods of ordinary people and their communities.
That is not going away.
Nope Northstar - winning makes everything easier.
Losing, not so much.
By any reasonable measure, Obama is having a terrible go lately. Last Friday was a tremendous blow, as was last night.
All the dems have right now is blame. In fact, the media is getting involved now and going at Obama.
Trends are great - when they are in your favor. O is on the wrong side of all the trends.
Labor lost. So did children's futures. It will will be a lot bleaker. Unhonorable the amount of $ republicans spent. Simply put, wisconsin voters can be bought. Sheep being led to slaughter by corporate $. I thought the cheese head thing was a fun thing. Can actually be true I guess.
I doubt a recall election would have worked in Maine (if we had the option) because people feel it's the Republicans' "turn" to try out their policies, and if they don't work, we'll vote them out in the next elections. Already, our Tea Party governor has dropped 20,000 people from Medicaid, with predictable consequences, and vetoed a bill that would have assisted the development of new industries in Maine. The Tea Party administraion of Paul LePage conducted a witch hunt on former Housing director Dale McCormick, which a recent investigation revealed was completely baseless. The people of Maine don't like this kind of abuse of power, or policies that prove short-sighted, and a case is building to vote out the rightwingers in the next election.
You should change your name to bitter Redhead.
I would hope that Lynch and others realize that Gov. Romney was long gone from Bain in 2011 and had nothing to do with the recent closing. You aren't that stupid are you????
The other part of the story shows that when private equity and government cooperate on the right industries -- the results are mostly successful. Unlike the "majority" Obama's picks -- using tax payer monies -- that have failed recently.
Just got a letter from the Supervisor of Elections in Florida regarding signature verification. It asks that voters fill in and return a form - printed in the most part in 4 point type. It is not that bad when you get into it and mine is "back at ya" in the stamped addressed envelope provided.
BUT, it could be intimidating for certain more elderly or less educated factions. I could not help feeling that if those factions do not fill in and return the form their franchise might be compromised.
Mission accomplished, Rick.
Dont_carry_it_all
Like most of these excessively wealthy "entrepreneurs," Mitt Romney is a corporate welfare queen.
And hopelessness. But the Lefties are so rattled, they think it's "hope".
Jay Carney's presser today should be a gem. They won't need the air conditioner on as Jay will be spinning so fast that there will be a nice cool breeze to keep the reports nice and comfy.
Obama 2012 - "So, can we pull bin Laden out of the drink and shoot him again?"
Mutants who vote for only one party STILL did not decide this election. Thankfully. I mean, after all, they are mutants.
What COULD be learned from the victory is that Islamist Radicals who are now the Republicans could note that there is still a large force out there against them, and they should seek to include them, unlike what the Communists who are Democrats did in 2010. And to those who say the Communists reached out...if they had, the economy and not health care would have been at the top of the list. Health care needs to be reformed....after you fix the freaking paychecks.
Communist Democrats could also learn from the defeat that Islamist Koran loving Republicans have a point...which is stop your entitlement because that is now beyond the range of benefits. When you can double dip pensions and make more than the retirement plan of a private sector employee of the same grade...oh, and that is AFTER a career of being paid more as well, you may think you are so awesome you deserve it, but I guess you've got a lot more convincing to do because the results from the election don't show it.
Mutants, however, will not learn from this.
Like their hated enemies, Koran Republicans will stroke themselves and rub it in the faces of their enemies, pretty much giving them what they want to make a comeback. And the Manifesto Democrats will get angrier and angrier until they finally win something again. And then the roles will reverse.
If it weren't for independents, basically the people that matter, I'd wish the US just downward spiral. But there are too many non-mutant, decent, thinking people to allow the mutant Koran Republicans and Manifesto Democrats to keep running things.
Newsflash for Backhouse, who clearly does not understand capitalism:
I run my business for my own personal profit. I hire employees only to the extent it will enhance my personal profit.
Oh and Backhouse - there is not one reason in the world you can;t open your own business to make money.
Profit is good. Profit is why businesses exist.
If I was not motivated by profit I'd be a worker bee like you. But Backhouse, I've said it many times here - you ain't never gonna get ahead working for someone else.
Yes, I have found keeping stacks of paper comfortable is always a prudent choice.
Yea, that's what you're doing right now! Running your business, while posting on MSNBC. Like we all believe that for a second.
To everyone who says that this proves unions are the devil: Why are the Firefighters and State Police unions exempt from the new rules put in place?
Smells like Politics and nothing else.
From the article:
Uhmm..hello first read *cough* "journalists".....did you see the vote? They did NOT win the public relations fight? In fact, they made themselves look worse.
As to all you liberal "Koch Brothers blah blah blah...bought the election blah blah...spent more money" excuse makers:
According to CNN (one of the most liberally biased newssources), 88% of Wisconsin voters had made up their minds prior to May. In other words, most of the spending was a waste anyway. By the way, it is estimated the Unions wasted $35 million supporting the recall. The GOP Pac's spent about $30 million.
Face it, the majority of people do NOT support this liberal agenda and they do NOT support public unions.
Waah ! Waah !! Waah !!!
You libbies simply cannot accept that a vocal minority does not always get its way when the majority have recognized that changes to reduce government spending are necessary. Reducing Wisconsin's large deficits is, indeed, moving Wisconsin Forward ! Reducing unemployment is moving Wisconsin Forward !!
Looks like the stock markets like the WI results. The Dow is up 160 now.
Well Wisconsin, to all you folks who got out and voted, good for you. If you didn't vote, and don't like Walker, it's yours to deal with it.
When your kids learn less, blame the teacher who could care less, because he/she makes less
If the emergency workers in your community respond slower, it's because they may not care as much as they used to. because their pay and benefits have been cut.
If I worked under a collective bargaining agreement in Wisconsin, I would quit my job immediatly and move away!!
Yea...I think there's a few government agencies that would dispute that's even happening in WI.
SSDD
June is baseball month in America.
Strike one - Wisconsin recall effort fails
Strike two - health care goes down
Strike three - Arizona law upheld
Yeeer outttaaa theeeeereeee libbies
I love a good game.
You forgot to mention Team Obama should be starting to look for a new attorney general. Seems Eric Holder is in a bit of hot water for lying to congress. http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/issa-fast-furious-wiretaps/2012/06/05/id/441296
Just another outright failure for Team Obama...
All of you silly fucs need to go find a job. Did the republitards not lose the WI senate last night? Good luck pushing your agenda now Scott.
It's been a steady downhill plunge for Obama and the left for several years now. Remember when Republicans won high profile governor races in Virginia and New Jersey? Then Scott Brown does the unthinkable and wins the Senate race in deep blue Massachusetts. Then an energized conservative electorate gains a majority in the House and picks up 6 seats in the Senate. And now Walker wins a decisive victory against the unions and their left wing allies.
What is it about this trend that the left just doesn't get?
JoAnnaSmith1
And Obama abandoned his precious unions, the very unions he said he'd walk the picket line with in his "comfy-shoes". The unions aren't that stupid, they know Obama walked away from them, they'll do the same for him. At the last minute Obama sent old Bill Clinton to try and mop up the mess in Wisconsin. Obama couldn't even bring himself to step into Wisconsin as he was traveling over it going to his fundraisers last weekend. Now even the Democrats know Obama won't help them, so why should they help him?
JoAnnaSmuf1,
I was waiting for some un-intelligent right wing nut job such as you to start that ludicrous meme.
First of all, you don't know anything beyond blather.
How do you know the President doesn't have his own internal polls? Why do you constantly repeat right wing Lies? Some people such as certain far left firebaggers along with the worst right wing nut jobs, such as you, believe everything FOX Noise and hateful, divisive right wing media spew.
That was a trap. Had the President gone it would have no longer been about union busting or the shrinking middle class. The Koch bros and every hateful right wing Super pac would have money bombed WI with confusing ads.
Also, the people in WI said they didn't want him there. It was their thing. Did you not hear what John Nichols of the Nation magazine said?
Why didn't Romney take his Wooden ask to Wi?
As it now stands the President is creaming Romey. I can guarentee you President Obama's base is fired up even more so now. We have enough sense to see the writing on the wall.
I feel sorry for WI. They got a loser.
Next time keep you blather to yourself.
Don't you dare say that to JAS1! LOL...
Does anyone one have an Ebonics translator?
fuzzy44
I like your attitude. "Quit and move away". Please take all of your liberal friends with you. I hear Greece is looking for some hard working liberals. Wait a minute, that's an oxymoron. Oh well, go anyway, you'll fit right in.
Yea JH. I'm sure you have a high paying productive job as well.
Now go make me my lunch.
There was a democratic state senator from Wisconsin on CNN last night who said that Dane County (where Madison and University of Wisconsin are) had a 115% voter turnout. By the way, Dane county favored Barrett 3:1
Wait!! 115%?? Oh, that is because Wisconsin allows you to register to vote, and vote, the same day.
Hmmm...I wonder how many of those weren't legitimate
Oh..nevermind...can't ask for ID before doing something as important as voting! That would be racist!
Bev....stones...glass houses?
As amused as I am by the usual characters gloating this morning; I remind you of this:
The easiest thing in the world is to get people to vote to take away the rights of others. That is what this vote did.
The difficult thing is to make the hard choice to go for recall, knowing that they rarely succeed.
I have been retired for sometime, so the loss that is going to come, of benefits, like sick days, vacation days and reasonable pay will not affect me. It will, however affect my children. And for that I am sad.
But remember...the pendulum always swings back. Lose a battle, win the WAR!
Congratulations to all of you in Wisconsin who worked so hard to recall this moral midget. Your efforts are not in vain, the rewards are coming.
A major victory for TRUE Americans and the first step to getting this great country back on track and out of the hands of the loonies.
Wow! Why would a Republican Governor try and disfranchise his own voter base? We know that the elderly vote Republican in much larger numbers than Democrat, and we are constantly informed on this board that it is the Republicans who are the low-information, low-educated voters (you know FAUX News viewers). Could it be it's the Democrats that are less educated? Can you clarify this?
I think the recall failed, in part, because the Democratic candidate was the Mayor of Milwaukee, and, if Wisconsin is anything like Maine, there is resentment against the state's biggest city, from the rural and suburban parts of the state. (Our Tea Party govenor makes alot of hay demonizing Portland.) Barrett was also not the first choice of the unions. They backed a different candidate in the primaries. I think it takes a perfect storm to oust an incumbent, especially one who outspent his opponent 10:1.
Ruken
What do want on your sandwich? I'll get Debbie Washermans Shorts to make it for you. She works cheap.
Which is understandable Amy.
I went to tour a college in Milwaukee about 6 years ago, and that city was...how do I put this politely...a dump.
That name doesn't sound kosher. The only trustworthy Debbie is "Little Debbie".
I am seeing more accusations of "libbies" whining then it actually happening. Most who have posted above have accepted the loss. I am not sure what the purpose of the "WAHHH WAHHH WAHH's" are for. November is still far a way, neither side should be too confident.
Jody, Iowa
Good morning Liberals, great way to start the day. I find it interesting that when things go badly for democrats, here we are swallowing our bravado and posting anyway yet when things go badly for the conservatives, they disappear into the night for a few days.
Yes they do Jody,
Not only are they silent on the issues but when they do re-appear they come back with nonsense like birthism, voter fraud, communist, austerity debauchey or whatever some nut job can conjure up in their camp; instead of moving the country forward.
Not only did the Unions and public collective bargaining lose yesterday.... but liberal (poll) credibility lost too... this particular poll is a sham! Wisconsin is definitely gone from blue to seeing red and is now in play as a key swing state! Romney 2012 is sounding much sweeter today!
Ruken, no the RAGBRAI route isn't near me this year! I gather you're riding in it.
Blatherly in Chicago is so flustered that the will of the real americans is coming out that she can't even think right. I knew she would go to the voter fraud as a hail Mary, just suprised she didn't find a way to throw in the race card (the day is not over though).
I wouldn't think they wanted him there. Seeing his endorsement success rate, why would they? (Olympics in Chicago, Corzine, Coakley, Spectre, Crist, etc, etc)
Huh?
Creaming? Latest Rasmussen has them tied at 46%. If you want to know what a bad sign that is for Obama, consider that Bush the First was up on Clinton by 14 points in June 1992. Carter was leading Reagan in June 1980, and McCain was one point up on Obama in June of 2008.
No, they got what they asked for 2 years ago. The people have spoken and it is what they wanted in the first place. What is unfortunate, is the giant waste of time and money inflicted on the State by the labor unions.
Ya. It shall be a fun time.
Belfast...
I guess we'll have to start bending over backwards to help funnel the "less educated" vote...maybe the taxpayers should pay for tutors to travel around and help them fill out the "4 point type" form that you finished and had inside the return envelop before the glue on the stamp was dry.
We surely don't want a "compromised franchise" for voters who would not be able to understand what either of those two words mean or spell either of them correctly.
We cannot let the Democrat voting base be 'intimidated' !!!
newdayDAWNING...RETURNED - "The difficult thing is to make the hard choice to go for recall, knowing that they rarely succeed."
Read up on history, this is the first one that has never succeeded.
I watched the start of "The Last Word" with Lawrence O'Donnell last night. His opening statement was that President Obama was the big winner last night as the exit polls showed the President preferred 51-44. This would mean he would hold Wisconsin. However, this is 5 points down from his 2008 performance. As the National Journal points out
All those citizens who are upset because public and private union workers have bargained for pensions have no one to blame but themselves for not having it. When Reagan began the demonization of unions, the GOP goal was to pit one segment of workers against another. He succeeded. He and the GOP convinced people how unfair union wages and benefits were--well, guess what happened, you people bought it and now your own employers in all those Right to Work, anti-union places call the shots. Union membership declined and with it the need for big business to compete with those wages and benefits. That's fact, not fiction.
I disagree. You have to really look at what Walker did with the public sector unions. He didn't outlaw them, he did make joining the union optional. And, since the law was passed, I believe I heard a number of about 50% of the union members have left the union, and 6000 teachers have opted out. Having the choice to be able to work in your profession, and NOT have to join a union is a right that is being upheld, not taken away.
Recalls seem to succeed at least half the time.
You still get these things. You see, at one time unions did fight and win these workers rights, but a long time ago, these rights became laws. State Departments of Labor and Labor Laws, workers compensation, OSHA, Minimum wage laws, etc...have all been enacted. Your children will be fine.
For governors, this is the first (albeit of three) time the incumbent wasn't removed from office.
(CBS News) Sixty percent of Wisconsin voters in today’s recall election say recall elections are only appropriate for official misconduct, according to early CBS News exit polls. Twenty-eight percent said they think they are suitable for any reason, while nine percent think they are never appropriate
=======================================================
Hummmm, it wouldn't have anything to with the Koch proproganda ie brainwashing ads?
Of c-o-o-o-o-u-r-s-e, what else could it be?
I simply enjoyed watching Fatso Ed try to spin this beating...
Hilarious- bevvie, feisty, backhouse meltdown. Where's your buddy Louis? Crying about how much money was spent when the 2008 election was bought by union money, over 700 million! And talk about what money buys, Obama had his face embedded in video games for cripe's sake. And like the snake in the grass he is, Obama renegged at the last minute on the agreement he and McCain had to have a public funded race when he realized how much cash was coming in. And in WI, the teachers packed their propoganda in the backpacks of the poor kids they are stealing from! Wisconsin just didn't fall for it again. Trumpka- you're fired!
I didn't know children were taxpayers.
Tough day in Wisconsin but, it's over and done. Much bigger things coming up. And, as Feisty put it so well, the Democrats took the WI senate and President Obama is still the preferred candidate for WI in November. We'll all move along.
It's funny to see the little right wingers pounding their chests and bragging today. Surprised? Not a bit!
Obama/Biden 2012
Joe-755363
Creaming? Latest Rasmussen has them tied at 46%. If you want to know what a bad sign that is for Obama, consider that Bush the First was up on Clinton by 14 points in June 1992. Carter was leading Reagan in June 1980, and McCain was one point up on Obama in June of 2008
Huh?
Can you tell me why Romney's Wooden ass was not in Wisconsin?
Fox-musseen polls don't count.
I find it funny that the media will not call out the Walker administration for the so called "balanced budget". He borrowed money from future generations of the people of WI and he diverted education funds to fund the govt to claim the budget was balanced. And gave big tax breaks to companies that have not created a single job as of yet to merit the tax break. THEY ARE DEAD LAST IN JOB CREATINON IN AMERICA! I also found it funny that nowhere in this article is mentioned that the republicans were playing with +$30 million vs the $3 million or so the democrats had to work with. The article makes it seem like this was a fair fight when it was not. Thankfully the rest of America is not as uninformed or as easily persuaded by TV adds as WI appears to be.
Also lets not forget, the unions had conceded all of Walkers request about cut backs when this whole thing began and still went after their collective rights. Republicans can only call it a win, in any scenario, when it involves taking rights away from citizens
Backhouse -- Will do. As often as necessary. JAS1 prompted me to post it today. Feel free to repost it too.
Houston -- Yes, business is on the dole. They always have their hand out. True conservatives would speak out against this type of welfare. Most republicans are not really conservatives.
And in other news...Obama's preferred candidate in the NJ Dem primary, Rothman, was defeated by Clinton's preferred candidate, Pascrell! More bad news for Obama...seems his coat-tails aren't good for anything except tucking between his legs!
So union workers shouldn't be upset when we refuse to pay them any more? After all teachers love to tell us how much they would be worth in the private sector. Now's the time to walk the walk? Actually you sum up the attitude the unions always had to everyone else including the middle class. We've got ours f...k you!
Jody, why don't you explain how in a global economy, unions can protect wages and benefits. Explain to me what tools they have to gain higher wages and benefits than those in other parts of the world. What value do they add to the end product? What benefits does a company gain by negotiating with a union? I know you would love to travel back to the fifties but that time has passed and we are in a global marketplace now.
This is the world of Citizens United and voter suppression. It's sad, but it doesn't look like there's much that can stop this freight train.
Learning experience. Corporate interests will dump a ton of money into the election, perhaps this trend could be used to stimulate the economy, TV, print and advertising should make out like bandits.
Unions, which are the big losers of this assault should look to past members for some fund raising. As Rachel correctly points out the whole purpose of Walkers gambit was to decimate the only big opposition to the Republican Super Pacs.
Democratic future strategy... Make em spend money and lots of it. Even Billionaires have limits.
Alan NJ:
Here's a news flash for you: Unions do not exist for the benefits of companies; they exist for the benefits they provide the workers, like occupational safety standards, paid vacations, paid sick leave, 5-day work weeks, and 8-hour work days, and wages that workers can actually live on.
Now, Why don't you answer this: what will the American people gain if the Republicans succeed in totally crushing all unions and we go back to the pre-union days of hellish working conditions, no vacation, no sick leave, 6-day work weeks, 10-hour workweeks, and slave wages?
BTW: I'm not a member of a union and never have been. Neither has anyone else in my family. But I'm smart enough to realize that most of the benefits that we salaried workers enjoy derive from the efforts of unions and the struggles of union organizers over the last hundred years.
Just for the record, I donated to Scott Walker's campaign, and, I am not from Wisconsin.
I am a nobody. I did not donate very much money. I did donate.
I was a Democrat for decades. And, the person who opened the door for me to begin looking at Republicans was none other than Obama.
And, the people who kicked the remaining door in was the Democrats and MSM. I have learned everything I never wanted to know about Democrats because of Obama.
I could explain it, actually, Alan. Unions haven't adjusted their desire to global economy standards yet. I disagree with the Walker approach completely, but the anger stems from unions being guilty of exactly what you are talking about.
You'd think the mortgage burst would be a clue that living standards are excessively priced and excessively paid for. A union should protect the rights of healthy work standards for workers. A union should not entitle you to double the average retirement pay while receiving a higher salary than someone working in the private sector.
Union workers work hard. As hard as private sector employees. No more, no less. Of course, everybody thinks they work harder, THEMSELVES than the person next to them. Just like everyone thinks they themsevles are a good driver. If so, where do all those bad drivers on the road that people keep complaining about come from? And the people who don't work hard?
We'll see what happens next...
Walker's day in hell will come !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ronald Reagan's dream has been fulfilled...the almighty dollar has trumped Democracy. May God help us all! There are obviously more complete fools in Wisconsin than I ever could have imagined.
Do you have one statistic to back up these claims? Didn't think so....
Once again...missing a lot of information there Los. The unions have about $35 million into this fight. Barrett only is claiming a $4 million dollar campaign fund, but a lot of the advertising against Walker was funded by unions. If you do a little research, you'll also see that 88% of the voters had decided prior to May, meaning that all the ads and money spent was a waste.
http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/fund-walker-wisconsin-recall/2011/08/10/id/406835
Ok Houston....time to check that little clock in the corner of your computer monitor. Does it say it's June 6th, 1908? Those unsafe, slave labor conditions that once existed have been legislated out of existance. Are you saying because the unions aren't going to get to double dip pensions in Wisconsin that OSHA will cease to exist? That Workers Compensation laws are going to disappear? That Labor laws regarding overtime, work weeks, child labor, equal opportunity are going to vanish now? That minimum wage will be repealed?
I think not. Pick a better argument.
This wasn't necessarily a blow to the democrats but a blow to organized labor, you know, the people that brought you the weekend. One day America will wake up, look across the pond at their European neighbors and wonder how is it that they have high speed rail, health care, 6 weeks of vacation a year, free education for their children and yet, they all work much much less. You can thank your decline in unions for that.
Bev -
Becacuse he isn't the leader of the Republican party. Obama is the leader of his party. Obama told the unions he would support them and show up. He didn't. Sending an tweet less than 12 hours before the election is not support. Its astonishing that you are still supporting Obama on this issue, especially considering 18% of Obama supporters voted for Walker. You really don't think Obama could have made a difference? Take off the blind fold.
Tony numbers
The idea is that no Citizen should be intimidated from casting their vote.
I get the feeling that you are not entirely on board with that concept.
"The multiplication of public offices, increase of expense beyond income, growth and entailment of a public debt, are indications soliciting the employment of the pruning knife." --Thomas Jefferson
the rich win and the workers lose again
It makes a nice show watching libs chocking on their own venom
No sour grapes on these posts. Nope! None at all! Thank you for all your gracious comments of congratulations!
Remorse and spin...that's the daily special
Ah, we could only wish....
And why is it that the Greek Government is out of money and can't pay for the "free" education, the "free" health care, subsidize the rail system? Why in Spain do they have 25% unemployment (50% youth unemployment).
I would love the French life-style and benefits but who is going to pay for it?
In the real world the first lesson you learn is that nothing is free.
Fiesty (Post 1.0)
Yet another FIRST POST by the apparent DNC or MSNBC employee.
Please tell us again how you get paid by MSNBC to post comments on the Newsvine, and also how you’re apparently able to have “special” access to the article so you can have the first post. Such silly tripe, saying Obama is up by 7 points based on the same exit polls that showed a close race between Walker and Barrett. It’s time for you to “move on” after your failed attempt this past week. Move on to the dust heap of history with your vile insults.
BTW, How was that “popcorn” last night Fiesty? Just wait till things get interesting in November when we toss Obama out in a Landslide.
** NOBAMA 2012 **
Walker just lost control of his precisious senate, so he can bark like a little doggy all day...but his bite is now suppressed. :)
Nothing will change regarding the leftisits here at First Read. But I'm sure even they know this is just the beginning of the end of their dream to transform this country into a model of the failed socialist European countries they so admire. It should be clear that the citizens of Wisconsin, when forced to decide what is best for the future of their state and the generations to come are, like most US citizens, lean right of center politically. It is a bad day for overpaid and entitled government workers, but it's a great day for we average citizens who have propped them up with our tax dollars all these years.
Belfast...
What "intimidation" ??? If a prospective vote cannot fill out a simple form, sign it, and mail it...well that tells me a lot about the value of that vote. It's less work than it takes to sign up for cable television.
Completing a form or showing an ID at the polls is hardly intimidating. For those that find it to be so...well save the trouble and simply stay home.
Ron, how does that Koch boot that you're licking taste? ;)
Joe in Albany....wondering if your %'s of none paying tax folks included the wealthy and big buinesses that paid no income taxes the past few years ? Also..would like to know what anyone can get that does not have a tax on it....must be something I missed.
Now you rightwingers, don't try to spin this... rather than accept the facts. The margin was the same as before, so this tells us that like Dubya in 2004, though his supporters had become unhappy with the Iraq war, they did not want to change horses mid-stream.
Many people don't like impeachment without clear cause after all we have been through as a nation since Nixon, and then Bill Clinton. Wisconsin leans blue as a state, and polls show a majority against the stripping of bargaining rights. If Wisconsin could have put this one issue on a ballot as they did in Ohio, this would have been voted down (though Kasich included cops and firefighters rather than divide and conquer against teachers, etc.).
As with all politicians, regardless of Party, Karma often takes care of them (think Blagojevich). If there is cause to remove Walker, it will come to light. Too bad about the division in Wisconsin now. I'm not from there with first-hand knowledge of things, but Barrett's concession speech struck me as gracious and his words about uniting showed leadership. I have not seen this about Walker, but maybe he exudes positive visions too. (?)
As for other governors being "emboldened," this seems over-played to me. The price paid for over-reach -- the protests, the money that has to be raised, etc. does NOT look attractive in other states. Kasich in Ohio has already been mentioned, but also Jan Brewer has had to dial it back, Bob McDonnell has had to face protests, Rick Scott in Florida is now facing the DOJ and lawsuits, Michigan is the biggest mess of all with the Emergency Manager nonsense.
The rightwing has lurched so far to the Right with over-reach, this is helping to fire up people such as Occupy. The pendulum swings, and when wages continue to plummet while CEO's rake in huge pay, workers will unite out of sheer need to survive. People will unite out of sheer need to survive. Solidarity is the people's only defense against money and powerful organizations.
This time in our history has yet to play out. But we must at least ensure it is done on the up-and-up with no rightwing shenanigans as we saw in the 2000 election. And we must ensure that basic premises of democracy are not destroyed in the process -- one man one vote, not our votes drowned out with money.
Wisconsin you can soon join your neighbor Michigan as a state without a middle class. Walker is a typical republican who wants his rich friends to have almost all the wealth.
Hey Ron...
"failed socialist European countries"
Are you f*cking stupid?? Those failed European countries you babbling about are failing because of AUSTERITY, which is a model of the right wing, do you're homework jackass.
:)
Y'all keep blathering on about austerity failing, and money as the king in elections.
So why were you not berating Obama for outspending McCain by around $300 million?
And about austerity - the states following the Republican plans are recovering, their unemployment is dropping, and more people are working.
The democrat states following the Republican plan are also recovering.
The Democrat states not following the Republican plan (like CA) are wallowed in debt, high taxes, and home to some of the highest rates of unemployment, like my own city of Merced, with an unemployment rate of 20%.
Sorry kids, you woke up the grown ups and they outnumber the hippies.
Joe numbers:
The GOP is intending to turn the clock back to 1908 or maybe back to the earlier "Gilded Age" of the 19th Century. Legislation enacted as a result of union activism can be repealed (along with "Obamacare") once the Republicans seize permanent control of the government, as they hope to do.
And as Bush demonstrated with its policy of letting the foxes guard the hen house regarding banking and environmental regulations, they don't even have to formally repeal laws if a President Romney were to appoint the "right" people to enforce OSHA and other agencies that protect workers.
Republicans have already turned back the clock a few decades. Even as unions have declined in strength, workers' share of wealth has decreased, even as productivity has increased. Once there are no unions fighting to preserve what they gained, much of it will eventually be lost. Or maybe all of it.
What "intimidation" ??? If a prospective vote cannot fill out a simple form, sign it, and mail it...well that tells me a lot about the value of that vote. It's less work than it takes to sign up for cable television.
Completing a form or showing an ID at the polls is hardly intimidating. For those that find it to be so...well save the trouble and simply stay home.
Nice one, Tony:
So not being able to read or not having ID should preclude you from voting? Perhaps and elderly person could not complete their education due to economic or discriminatory reasons, or never had a driver's license or passport; in your world they do not get to vote?
Maybe voting should be limited to blond, blue-eyed people -- no, that has been tried before.
Welcome to America, Tony. Every citizen is entitled to vote and every vote has the same value. Sorry!
Wow
Muhahahahahahahahaa lolololololololololololololololololololo
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
We win you LOSE
We need to bring this now to Cali 8) so we can salvage this state from Bankruptcy.
MisterWonderful -- Stop with the GOPee Wee Herman "I know you are, but what am I"? false equivalency.
Big Al-369306 -- Now that the Gubernator Schwarznegger is gone, and Jerry Brown is back at the helm, California at least has a chance to recover.
Houston! -- Agreed. The rightwingers have been snookered by the oligarchy and their FIXED News mouthpiece. As union wages goes, so goes the wages for rest of the nation. They want to privatize profits and socialize debt -- Also, the Republicans want a one-party state (run by the elite). Hmm, sounds communist to me.
Bill, Fairfax VA -- Compare apples to apples. Presidential races like 2008 are different from mid-terms like 2010, and even more different from a rare recall election. Are you excited to vote for Romney, really?
"The truth is that the Wisconsin recall campaign was a farce from beginning to end. Its sole purpose was to sabotage the struggle against the Walker administration by blocking any independent mobilization of the working class and diverting the energy of workers and young people into the safe channels of the Democratic Party—a party just as committed to the defense of corporate interests as the Republicans."
Republican governor wins recall election in Wisconsin
By Patrick Martin
6 June 2012
"…The entire recall campaign was a fraud, since the Democratic Party supported the cuts in wages and benefits for state and local government workers, objecting only to Walker’s exclusion of the unions from participation in the process of determining what would be cut.
Barrett, who won the Democratic primary and became the party’s candidate in the June 5 vote, had actually made extensive use of Walker’s anti-worker law to impose $19 million in wage and benefit cuts on city employees in Milwaukee. The Democratic candidate largely downplayed the issue of collective bargaining rights and sought to distance himself from the unions, boasting in one debate that he had not been their choice for the nomination.
In the last week before the vote it was widely reported in the press that the Democrats had decided to drop the issue of Walker’s anti-worker measures. Typical was the June 4 report in Politico.com under the headline “Wisconsin Dems Sidestep Labor Debate in Recall.” The article stated: “On the eve of the June 5 recall election, the issue of collective bargaining has become just a footnote in the hard-fought battle for Wisconsin. Democrats gloss over the issue in campaign speeches, political advertisements and debates…”
The national Democratic Party opposed the recall effort, refusing either funds or active campaign support for Barrett until the last week, when there was a flurry of appearances by national Democrats like former president Clinton. This was largely an attempt to disguise the deliberate torpedoing of the campaign.
President Obama never made an appearance in Wisconsin during the recall campaign and barely disguised his hostility to the anti-Walker effort. Last week he attended a fundraiser in Minneapolis and then flew across Wisconsin to another fundraiser in Chicago without bothering to set foot in the state.
Liberal apologists for Obama and the Democrats, like the Nation magazine and MSNBC host Rachel Maddow, complained that the Republicans and their billionaire backers raised vast sums for pro-Walker advertising and outspent the Democrats by a margin of 30 to one. Such comments are a deliberate cover-up of the reality that the Democrats had no desire to win and mounted only a token effort…"
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/jun2012/wisc-j06.shtml
As always Feisty you command on the political field is to be commended as you have drawn the enemy out into the open for us to raze.
Very commendable.
What a colossal waste of Union dues!
It was reported that only about 30 percent of the registered democrats voted in the 2010 election in Wisconsin. If you're not going to vote, then you have no complaints about the outcome of an election.
A friend of mine, recently retired from ABC News, tells of his walk on Omaha Beach on the 50th anniversary of the American invasion, June 6th, 1944. He was with David Brinkley, a news giant and a native of North Carolina. They walked to the American cemetery, and when Brinkley saw the graves of his fellow North Carolinians, my friend said of Brinkley, simply - "He wept."
My memories of the bloody beaches of the Normandy Coast come from film. It is beyond my imagination that anyone who has ever seen such film could ever forget the carnage. Here came waves of assault craft approaching deadly German emplacements. Gates up, soldiers had to have heard round after round hitting their craft, knowing that when the gate dropped, they had little chance of survival. Yet, on they went.
You cannot forget the pictures - countless bodies floating in the water. How much worse the horror for those G.I.'s who actually stormed the beaches is beyond my comprehension.
That terrible war, WWII, has other names that should be branded in the memories of boomers, those of us who are now retiring: Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Bataan, the Battle of the Bulge, and many, many more. Those brave men and women - many of them our mothers and fathers - Marines, WAM's, WAC's, Army, Navy handed this country to us. They not only fought for it, they built it, and they gave it to us. And most of them are gone now. And how do we honor their memory?
We argue about repairing the roads they built. While they gave their lives to insure our safety, we argue about paying a few dollars to treat a fellow citizen's illness. For their sacrifice, we sent many to school and they gave us the space program, a communications infrastructure second to none, irrigation systems that give us the finest produce in the world. Yet, today, we argue about paying for any more education, even as we reap the benefits of past investment in our best minds.
Why shouldn't we argue? We deserve the blessings they secured for us. We're wonderful. We're exceptional. We are solely responsible for our success. We did this without any help. We don't need government. We don't need to work together.
That nasty debt? Don't blame me. Failing education? Don't blame me. I'm a success. I made my own way. No help. No assistance.
For arguing about the great nation they built and put in our care, for forgetting about their sacrifice, the bunch of us don't hold a candle to a single magnificent American soldier, floating face down at Omaha Beach.
Hey labor - you came, you tried to play the game, you lost. Now get back to work.
Hey OWS - you came, you amused the hell out of us, now go get a job.
Hey libbies - being broke sucks and economic reality always wins. Get used to disappointment.
Yeah David. The WWII Vets. The Greatest Generation. Glad you remember them. I've always felt bad about that. Imagine being a D-Day Vet or a veteran of the Pacific etc.. and just 20 years after you came home from the war you have to watch with disgust as the following generation begins a long, sustained and vicious campaign to TEAR DOWN everything you fought for. God, country, family, patriotism. ALL these things were declared to be "bulls**t" by the generation that came of age in the 60s.
God Bless those D-Day vets. The same "older generation" that you libs always say you wish would "die off" because they aren't as "enlightened" as you and cling to their God and guns, and vote conservative.
David W, well said.
I see the celebratory mood of Joe, Bill, Spanky and all has toned down a little from the posters of last night.
Although , Spanky sounds like the grim reaper, you did get the percentage spot on last night.
Congratulations.
Good luck to all my neigbors in WI, and may your corn be knee high by the Fourth of July.
Grim Reaper?
Nope - I want the country to succeed and to get out from under this crushing, crippling debt. I want my kids to at least have a chance.
Right now they do not.
But thanks for the shout out on the percent.
THe tide has turned, our side is wining. Obama will not be elected. And that is a very good thing.
Backhouse
Hi Bev,
In Australia, you cannot get a job, unless you a part of a union. The are in the middle of big growth right now.
So, at 11%, how does U.S. Labor have 'too much power'? It will not wash!
=========================================================
You are correct. It will not wash.
Why, at the rate we are going there will not be either unions or none unions working. American will be a serfdom which suites the Kochs and Wall Street Fat Cats just perfect.
spanky,
The tide comes in the tide goes out.
Six month ago Newt Gingrich was riding a wave, and in November Romney will lose to Obama.
David Walker: "And how do we honor their memory?"
Good question. I tried it myself the day before Memorial Day with a tribute to the last of the WW1 vets who are now all gone. I also asked for everyone's thoughts and prayers as I left for Florida to be with my ailing mother who was in the ICU. It got collapsed by the "community". Since I'm a card-carrying liberal, it's pretty obvious which side here found that offensive.
Don't be surprised if they take yours down too. They have no shame.
But thanks for your efforts anyway - that was beautifully written, and the reactions you've already gotten from the likes of Spanky and Damage only further illustrates your point. As the headline on this thread says, "Walker Wins" - but David, not Scott.
Wisconsin voters have shown their preference - Republican/GOP all the way. I for one would never have guessed the women in Wisconsin were so desperate for a vagina probe that they would take the party that makes them pay for the pleasure. Wisconsin voters also left us with one other message as well - tiny Koch's with pocket books rule in politics. Fortunately, I don't live the weak minded state where cows, cheese, and corruption rule. Folks, enjoy your corrupt governor, enjoy your voter restriction laws, relish your eliminated right to unionize. Teachers, kiss your pensions and health benefits good bye, and welcome your minimum wage paychecks. Over and Out!
damaged:
There's nothing that's so meaningful in your world that you can't find a way to denigrate it, is there?
Our fathers, my wife's and mine both served in WWII. Twenty years my father returned, I know exactly where his son was. He was getting ready to graduate high school. Shortly after that, he would be in Viet Nam. My wife and I had uncles who served in Korea. Hers came home in a box. I served in Viet Nam. Son is currently serving.
Don't you dare tell me I tore down everything WWII veterans fought for, you miserable low-life scum. WTF did you ever do in the service of your nation? You come here and sling filth on your own God. On that score, I've forgotten more about your God and his Son, than you'll ever know. Read the Sermon on the Mount some time. You speak of patriotism, you worthless punk. You don't know what a patriot is.
Short answer: never a damn thing.
David -- A very moving reminder of what those brave soldiers fought and died for. They indeed laid the foundation upon which we stand today. Too many seem to have forgotten that. Beautiful post.
Exit polls show Wisconsin voters support President Obama's re-election, that's all I care about.
Personally, I don't think you can govern a state well after you have lost the support of school teachers, the majority of women, and young people. Those are bellweather groups. The future looks bleak for Wisconsin Republicans. I believe history will show, Wisconsin Republicans won the battle and lost the war.
This election cost Walker $23.00 per vote to win...
making this the single largest amount EVER paid per vote to win a Governor's seat....
if Liberals can raise the price of a Romney win in November to the same level
it will cost the Kock Bros. everything they own......
the mission is clear !
Uh Backhouse and Bev I am not sure where you got your info on unions and Australia but it appears to be a bit of an exaggeration. It is only 18% not everybody according to the BLS.
http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2006/01/art3full.pdf
Yes, Amy- but, bear in mind, those were the SAME exit polls that show a 50-50 race. Well, until forty five minutes after the polls closed. Then-whoops!- the weighting problems were exposed.
Not to worry- they re-weight to the raw vote- kind of like getting to correct your math test so you pass instead of fail.
Think they re-weighted for the Obama/Romney match-up? I don't- but, even if they did, it's a lead pipe cinch you won't see it.
So, do this, Amy- take the 50-50, then do the math in your mind. It's not the right way, of course, but close enough for government work.
So, now that you've done the correction- ask yourself where that leaves the general election preference. hint- not good for Obama.
Also, ask yourself how bitter the union leadership and democratic movers and shakers are about Obama's absence. See, Romney provided ground troops and organization- all those Walker headquarters all over the state are turning around into Romney headquarters.
Obama sent a tweet. So, how's that going to work for GOTV? Very well- if you're a Romney supporter.
Maybe it's just that Obama doesn't like cheese. Maybe it's because he's a Bears fan.
But, honestly, probably it's because he did not want to get tainted by a loss- and that is pretty much going to deal his fate in Wisconsin. P.S.- he has no chance at all without Wisconsin.
So, that's that.
Amy B Portland...you can cling to the exit polls if you'd like, but those same exit polls led at least three of the networks to claim that the election was too close to call with over 60% of the votes counted and Walker at that stage 13% ahead. What it meant was that those people who actually took time to answer the survey questions heavily favored Barrett, while those who favored Walker had to get back to work and did not have the time to answer a bunch of silly questions that led the networks to be wrong on their projections.
By the way, you think the unions liked the fact that Obama was campaigning in NY for the 20th time and visited the gay and lesbian task force instead of trying to help the union movement in Wisconsin...I bet Axelrod is hearing an earful from the Teamsters today...
David
Thank you for reminding us that today was D-Day back in 1944 and the beginning of the end for Hitler and Nazi Germany. I think this is especially important today in light of the election results in Wisconsin.
A disappointment but not unexpected. We have lost our way.
As the last few members of the Greatest Generation pass into history we see the values they fought, bled and died for becoming endangered as well. The America these heroes knew is slowly sliding towards the horror they fought so valiantly in Europe.
God bless the men and women of the Greatest Generation and God help the USA to remember their sacrifice and what America once stood for.
Good Morning to all,
Well the voters won, and I'm not going to rub it on to the Left posters on this FR. Time to go on, had a good sleep last night. This will be the trend for November if there are no surprises. I know that if Walker would have lost. The mouth pieces the likes of the red Beisty, Ginger, Bev, Jody would be insulting the unintelligent, stupid folks like us with no mercy. So I say on to them, is not over until is over in November.
Thank you to our troops living and dead for D-Day.
That being said, Gov. Walker was elected two years ago by the people. The people spoke again last night. No matter how much money is pumped in, the voters still have the say.
As for the unions, I don't have any sympathy for the public unions. Where were they when the private sector unions were being destroyed? When the air traffic controllers got fired in the early '80's. As thousands of manufacturing jobs went overseas? Where were the public sector unions then?
People are sick and tired by being milked by these people. So they have to pay into their health care - BIG DEAL. 90% of the country does that now. They also get clothing allowances, cost of living increases, etc.
I live in NJ and a close friend's brother who is on state disability, had to go into Roosevelt Hospital in Edison, NJ. I won't let a dog live like those people do. Again, all state employees. The first thing that hits you when you walk onto the floor is the stench as they place patients all in diapers and let them sit in their feces for hours.
So, I really feel that there should be competition and people fired for negligence.
As for the unions, as I said. Where were they when Johnson and Johnson started to ship jobs out to Brazil? The unions destroyed themselves with their power and greed.
BTW, my friend got her brother into a private-run facility that takes Medicaid. The difference is day and night.
I believed in unions...but there has to be accountability and not politics.
Obama,
The writing is on the wall.
November can't come too soon.
Damage 123 - I was about to "vote you up" on 2.2 for a really good post until I got to the second paragraph and you had to insert your ignorance and your hatred. Too bad. And, too narrow minded. I don't know of a single "liberal" who wishes anyone would die because they don't agree with our views. And, you're an idiot if you think all D-Day Vets are conservative. Many of them abhor the stance the far right has taken - away from our country.
David Walker - great post - as usual.
Barrett's loss last night was a pity but, as Feisty said in her post which frightened the far righties so much they collapsed it, the Democrats took the WI senate and President Obama still tops Romney in the WI polls by 7 points. It isn't over by a long shot.
Funny to read the righties doing their chest thumping on this site. But, not unexpected and the usual nastiness prevails. No biggie.
On to bigger and more important races!
Obama/Biden 2012
David, thanks for a heartfelt and eloquent post.
Don't let the naysayers get to you. There are far more of us who think as you do. We need to stay strong.
Hilarious, liberal meltdown. Squealing about the money when we all know Obama's election was bought by the unions to the tune of 700 million, and even had his face embedded in video games- creepy. And now he is expected to get over a billion for this election. Like a snake in the grass he is, he renegged at the last minute to the agreement he had with McCain to use public funding when he realized how much cash was coming in. Hypocrisy at it's finest. And that gawd awful rendition of "Hit the road Jack" was painful.
Crystal - Hilarious non-post you made. Filled with nothing but ignorance and stupidity. The fact that President Obama had millions of people wanting to support his campaign is what cost McCain the election. No one wanted any part of he and Palin - his choice, remember?
Hypocrisy is the far right talking about anyone buying a campaign when they have the Koch Bros., as well as foreigners contributing to Romney's campaign. But, you don't mind that since you think our country should be for sale to the highest bidder.
Clearly no sanity in the GOP - or class either - as you prove with every post!
Obama/Biden 2012
I think everyone is missing the results of this recall. Approximately 60% of the voters did not believe in a recall election unless corruption was involved, so it seems most didn't care about either side, just the principle. This makes sense, given the fact that Walker won, but people said they will vote for Obama in November.
blah blah blah,
Do you park in the handicapped area? You know you are allowed if you sport an Obama bumpersticker. Keep seeking, you obviously haven't found sanity.
Crystal - your post shows you have no intelligence, integrity or class. Keep it up - it just makes you look more and more like the gutter trash you are.
Obama/Biden 2012
Oh My, does that mean their will be another recall and election next year after his 20+ aides testify against him on fraud and corruption charges? Seems it would have been better to send him packing on this vote vs. doing it again in another year.
RedDev - actually, that is going to be funny!
Um, Tyler, Sally- I think this wacko just violated the COH, and as much as I would love to stoop to his level and tell him what I think, I won't but he needs suspended.
Remind me again... Who it was that busted the unions in Germany in the 1930's....?
For the first time in 3+ years I am Proud of my Country. Keep up the great work and put obummer out in November.
What it all appears to be boiling down to, is which of the many factions is the better armed. What a shame people just don't get the idea that the power bestowed by wealth is not a God given right to exploit others. The liar's poker that capitalism has become is about to come crashing down. The truly wealthy can just sit back and laugh, they can go anywhere they wish to ride out the coming economic storm. The rest of us, particularly those in large cities, will be fighting for our very lives. It isn't at all that Walker won, democracy lost.
Technically so did you.
When was the last time a labor issue garnered this much public support? A blow to labor? I don't think so - because - labor showed it still has some muscle.
If anything the Wisconsin results shows exactly how much power the 'little people' can exert when they work together. That is a sign of hope that has not been seen on our political landscape in a long, long time.
Those that bash labor in this election - are really saying they can control the 'little people' - that 'little people' don't count. Standing on the wrong side of history is still wrong.
The objective is not to win every battle - it is to reclaim the right of the 'little people' to be heard in government. It is only a matter of time ...
I stand with David Walker. Thank you for your thoughtful posts.
"The multiplication of public offices, increase of expense beyond income, growth and entailment of a public debt, are indications soliciting the employment of the pruning knife." --Thomas Jefferson
Joanne in PA - and if I was a card carrying conspiracy theorist (CT) I would say liberal/progressives collapse their own posts to gain sympathy and make excuses. There just aren't enough FR conservative/right winger posters to collapse posts, but there sure are more than enough FR lefties to collapse posts from anyone.
Tell us, you all got another "libs-r-us" organazation set up to plan your attack and deflection strategies?
Walker's day in Hell well come, it's time to move on to his Criminal investigation and put this dirtbag in jail. PS - The people that voted for this Loser, voted for the Koch Mob to run your State, this was a sad day for the Best of Wisconsin. I would love to see this Koch paid Puppet flush down the Toilet !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regressives celebrating that they managed to hold on to a (Wisconsin governor) job.....is like John Edwards toasting his hung jury.......it's good not to have your butt kicked while in the public stocks....but, wouldn't it have been better not to have been so exposed in the first place? Maybe the next regressive will be a tad more circumspect when it comes to pushing fascism down the throats of Americans.
Then, there's this salt to flavor their champagne:
"Democrats appear to take Senate with narrow Lehman win"
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/3-gop-senators-survive-recalls-ib5jfeg-157395125.html
Nerm
You are rationalizing far too much, it is not mentally healthy.
In Ohio Unions successfully overturned Ohio's law on limited bargaining rights by a similar margin to how the unions lost in Wisconsin.
The Unions must stop overplaying their hands or this trend is going to continue.
They, the governments, and businesses need to learn to co-exist. If the union doesn't do this instead of trying to over dominate - it will continue on the path toward irrelevance that began in the 50's, when union membership began to decline.
Nerm, , take a look at how the public unions in Wisconsin have done since Walker made union dues voluntary. Hint- their numbers have not grown.
Next, have a think on this-
Normal people cannot hold two contradictory thoughts at the same time. What that means is,if you are rational, you cannot believe that water is both wet and dry.
Now, tell me- how many irrational people do you think get out and vote in Wisconsin? I truly would not ever want to have a conversation with someone who voted for Walker- but plans to vote for Obama.
I realize that liberals can understand this irrational phenomena- after all, they howled against dunking terrorists in water in order to glean information about plans to attack Americans- but praise to the heavens blowing them up by remote control. This, however, is nobody's idea of rational thought. These are the irrational representations of cult members, who are, by their very nature, incapable of rational thought.
To color the majority of Wisconsites as irrational is, simply, hogwash. To hang on to what have been proven to be poorly weighted exit polls for hope in November is delusional.
The handwriting is on the wall- Virginia and New Jersey in 2009, Scott Brown in Massachusetts, the 2010 midterms, last night. Obama's going to be an ex president very shortly.
David Walker, You wrote a nice post. My dad was in Bastone, Belgium during WW 2. They really were a wonderful generation.
NermL... LMAO...
Seems like the "little people" (read taxpayer) have spoken. That is what you meant right?
SeekingSanity-
Yeah, and your post just screams "Class".
Feisty Redhead-
Remind me again...who makes the biggest stretches to associate evil with the conservative views that made this country great?
My, my Mark, we are testy this morning. Did you have anything of value to add, or did you want to continue attacking people who don't think like you do?
Amazing! The Tea Party voters who begrudge Fireman, Policeman and Teachers their all but reasonable compensation and benefits because they are they themselfes paid little by their own employers or are on a fixed income (Social Security, Medicare)! Amazing, that the same Tea Partiers are currently paying taxes at a historic low (lowest since the 1950's)! Amazing, that when all the Public and Private Sector Unions are gone they (those who vote against their own self interests) will "still" be cheated out of good benefits and a living wage by both their former and current employers! Amazing, how they will then react when Mitt and the Tea Party Congress privatize their Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid! Amazing, when there is no EPA and corporations can poison them and their families for profit and no one has any legal recourse! Amazing, when Halliburton declares war on Iran for profit! Amazing, when Green Energy Technology is all but outlawed! Amazing, when the cities of New York, L.A., and New orleans are all under water! Amazing, how cognitively and intellectually lazy these people are! Amazing! Amazing! Amazingly, amazingly... sad!
What makes you think conservatism made this country great? Conservatism has done nothing but tear this country apart over and over again. Conservatives aren't happy until the country is left in tatters, and liberals have to pick up and put the pieces back together. Need an example - think The Great Depression.
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
Wasn't it the guy who painted couple of paintings which are currently decorating one household in Texas - the household that Romney was visiting last night?
Who would in their right mind buy anything of Hitler's - nevermind having it hang on your living room wall. Maybe he can buy an Osama Bin Laden original, too, to add to his collection paintings by mass murderers...
@DB Akron -- @no joe, no bo, nj -- It is not about unions. I understand why you wish is were so - but - you have stated many times that unions are an anachronism in today's society. Unions provide representation for less than 10 pct of the workforce. Yet the election in Wisconsin was a defeat of unions? That is simply not logical.
No, this was a battle about government overreach - government dictating what the 'little people' can and cannot do. The issue is about whether the 'little people' have a right to govern themselves.
Walker's victory in Wisconsin is not quite as large as you wish to portray. Unions members make up a small portion of the voting public. No, what you heard was the voice of the 'little people' - and - they are learning that they are not powerless.
It is only a matter of time ...
BINGO Bayllie!
That would be the one... ;o)
How could Walker retain the governorship - and - yet Obama leads in exit polling? A lot of Wisconsin voters do not like the idea of recalls. It goes against their middle class values of 'fair play' - of having a 'fair shot'.
Walker won the election in 2010 and it is simply 'fair' that he be allowed to finish his term.
Yet a growing number of people are adjusting their view on 'fair play' - that is why the recall election was as close as it was.
I realize that message is too nuanced for some to accept. But look at the results carefully. The middle class - the 'little people' are waking up and participating.
It is only a matter of time ...
Bingo no joe no B.O.!
Something tells me no joe does have B.O.
Now you rightwingers, don't try to spin this... rather than accept the facts. The margin was the same as before, so this tells us that like Dubya in 2004, though his supporters had become unhappy with the Iraq war, they did not want to change horses mid-stream.
Many people don't like impeachment without clear cause -- after all we have been through as a nation since Nixon, and then Bill Clinton. Wisconsin leans blue as a state, and polls show a majority against the stripping of bargaining rights. If Wisconsin could have put this one issue on a ballot as they did in Ohio, this would have been voted down (though Kasich included cops and firefighters rather than divide and conquer against teachers, etc.).
As with all politicians, regardless of Party, Karma often takes care of them (think Blagojevich). If there is cause to remove Walker, it will come to light. Too bad about the division in Wisconsin now. I'm not from there with first-hand knowledge of things, but Barrett's concession speech struck me as gracious and his words about uniting showed leadership. I have not seen this about Walker, but maybe he exudes positive visions too. (?)
As for other governors being "emboldened," this seems over-played to me. The price paid for over-reach -- the protests, the money that has to be raised, etc. does NOT look attractive in other states. Kasich in Ohio has already been mentioned, but also Jan Brewer has had to dial it back, Bob McDonnell has had to face protests, Rick Scott in Florida is now facing the DOJ and lawsuits, Michigan is the biggest mess of all with the Emergency Manager nonsense.
The rightwing has lurched so far to the Right with over-reach, this is helping to fire up people such as Occupy. The pendulum swings, and when wages continue to plummet while CEO's rake in huge pay, workers will unite out of sheer need to survive. People will march in the streets out of sheer need to survive. Solidarity is the people's only defense against money and powerful organizations.
This time in our history has yet to play out. But we must at least ensure it is done on the up-and-up with no rightwing shenanigans as we saw in the 2000 election. And we must ensure that basic premises of democracy are not destroyed in the process -- one man one vote, not our votes drowned out with money.
Nerm...
The exit polling was a disaster last night...even some of the TV talking heads admitted it. The problem with exits polls is not everyone who casts a vote does the poll...only those who feel the need to do so.
the truth is, it's ALL about the money. Whoever raises the most wins.
@tony-268769 -- What you say is true - only those that choose to participate in the exit polls are counted. More Obama supporters chose to participate in polling than Romney supporters. Does that suggest which group is more likely to fight for their candidate? Perhaps.
Wisconsin experienced a record voter turnout - the vote was not suppressed. Only motivated voters cast ballots.
You and I diverge when it comes to blaming American workers for all our woes, even organized labor (a contradiction in your post). That is a rightwing LIE that jobs went overseas because of unions. For one thing there are no more private sector unions, as you say. The real explanation is the advent of a global economy in which companies are mobile but labor is not.
Telemarketing jobs are coming back from India (like low-paying burn-out jobs are what we want), but the point is workers will always aspire upward for a better job, and that is what happens everywhere these companies go. Eventually they'll run out of countries, huh?
But the American workers (and unions) sure as heck are NOT responsible for the Great Recession. Stop helping the oligarchy in spreading this propaganda and start putting blame where it belongs -- At the feet of plutocrats like Romney and Vulture Capitalism, Wall Street and investment bankers and hedge fund managers, derivatives, and toxic mortgage securities, etc. The way the 1% makes money off money instead of producing real goods and services -- This IS the problem!
So we come full circle to your post, and you are very close to asking the correct question: Why not me too? Instead of attacking teachers and other middle class workers who's pay and benefits actually suck (well police do pretty good but Walker carved them out and didn't attack them, WTF?) -- Instead of a Race to the Bottom, ask why not me too?
RedDev-
Yeah lets talk about the failed program of the New Deal. There was an equal size depression in 1896, and most of the "Fixes" that were used in the New Deal were presented back then. He is the thing, they denied all of them. Instead they cut government and the spending there in. The reason that you may not know of this is because it was solved in 2 years. So here we are again, but instead of learning from history we dive right back into the same policies that failed the first time...Oh, and the architects that designed the New Deal are the same ones that said that the policy failed. So go on and tout your New Deal, why not tout your stimulus plan and see how far that gets you in this election...
"But the Obama White House and Chicago campaign headquarters can also take comfort that the exit poll shows Obama beating Romney by seven points, 51%-44%"
Yeah, but that's the same exit polling that showed Walker and Barrett neck and neck 50%/50%. How correct did THAT turn out to be?
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
My dad's uncle died in one of the Concentration Camps, and one of his friend's survived it and wrote a book about it so the whole painting story makes me want to throw up.
I don't understand how anyone can look at that crap as something of value. Disgusting.
Bayllie,
It's the macabre little world they inhabit...
Disturbing to say the least!
@Mark - experts, of which I doubt you are one, really only agree that depressions/recessions prior to the Great Depression cannot be adequately measured to post events due to different standards used in measurement. Often, the panics of 1893/1896 are tied together as one event because the time between both events was short. Likewise, efforts to pull out of the panics cannot necessarily be compared to efforts to get out of the Great Depression.
By solved in 2 years, it is generally claimed that the effects of the panics ended with a gold rush. That simply doesn't equate to solving the issues with the Great Depression. The rate of effectiveness is disputed by experts, but claims that the New Deal was a complete failure is bunk.
Now you want to banter stimulus. Well, stimulate this .. why did Bush and Congress agree that 1.3T in stimulus had to be spent to solve Bush's itty-bitty baby recession, but yet those same republicans wouldn't stimulate beyond $800b to solve the largest recession since the Great Depression. It is because republicans wanted Obama to fail, at the expense of ruining the individual economies of Americans.
The comments today show that the liberals are tone deaf.
Not only did Walker win, but 2 major cities in CA voted in overwhelming majorities (67% and 71%) to reduce the public pensions, as these two cities are spending 20-27% of their annual budget on pensions, and are projected to go bankrupt within 5 years without serious reform.
Out here in CA in the central valley, we are paying educators six-figure salaries in record numbers. In Fresno County alone we have more than 1,000 educators / administrators $100k - $300k annually. Their pensions are equally obscene. Now before you sound off, this is a county with new homes in the $180k range. This is a low income area, with a median household income of $34k.
When elementary school principals are earning more than $100k and their neighbors average $34k per household, the 1% are now the government / ruling class. Their incomes go up, their pensions are just as obscene, and it has to change.
So while liberals keep smoking their front lawn, and think WI is an anomaly. I am here to tell you even in the USSCA, times are changing. This is not about anything other than taxpayers are tired of the government workers taking more and more while producing less and less.
@MisterWonderful -- Tone deaf? Sooner or later politicians are going to run out of 'overpaid' government workers.
The issue you raise is about a middle class value of 'fairness'. The middle class has also been questioning the 'fairness' of compensation for insurance administrators, bank CEOs, and hedge fund managers.
Deflect, dodge, and deceive all you wish. What are you going to do when you run out of 'overpaid' government workers?
Nerm_L
I love how the right keeps complaining about the overpaid government workers like teachers or police officers. Yet, none of them give up their government jobs to prove their point and become one. Better yet, the same people that complain about these overpaid jobs, are the people who over and over keep voting for giving themselves raises.
Every single Senator and a Representative voting against any programs for government workers should themselves give up their raises, their health insurance, their vacation pay, and their retirement benefits.
Freakin' lying bunch of hypocrites.
Right on Nerm/Bayllie - I mean, what is the proper salary for a school superintendent, responsible for the administration of 100s of schools and 100's of thousands of children? Apparently, to the b(olive)tchy public, nothing close to the average CEO compensation package of $10M per year. Proof again, they want all the benefits of the services - for FREE! And conservatives have the nerve to call liberals free loaders.
Fun little article from Fresno and the Superintendent of that district.
http://theprodigy.ucmerced.edu/article/fresno-county-superintendent-cuts-own-salary-restore-public-trust
"Remember Walker's phone call with the Koch looters"
RedDevPS
As far as I know, Superintendents are required to have PhD's. My husband has a degree in Special Education, and he doesn't teach. Why? Becuase he can make more money in the private sector plus he hates parents who keep blaming the school system for their children's failures while they don't do @!$%# for their kids at home but that's a different story.
He did teach in FL for couple of months while we lived there for 2 years - he would made about $30K a year. Mass pays way more but requires Master's, and certification.
I love how parents have high expectations of teachers while they want to pay them a salary of someone with a High School degree. Can't have it both ways people. You want quality education, you gotta pay for it otherwise start sending your kids to schools taught by teachers with GEDs.
Amy B. (post 2.13)
Sure, that's what I'd rest my laurels on, anonymous responses given to a pollster by die hard partisans.
I mean, after standing in line for 30 minutes to vote, what I'd really want to do then is spend 15 minutes answering questions by a pollster for no good reason. We're these the same polls that projected the race was a 50-50 tie right up until the polls closed.
I wonder how reliable that "exit poll" of a 7 point lead really is, when the media for the past week has been telling us the "racing is tightening" between Walker and Barrett.
I think what's more likely is, just like the media failed to predict the HUGE republican gains in 2010 and the HUGE margin of victory by Walker, they'll paint a rosey picture of Obama, right up until the he looses in a LANDSLIDE!
NOBAMA 2012!
.
Yashmak -- Fine, don't go by exist polls, go by recent elections. Wisconsin leans blue.
John-2006106 -- Considering how much money Walker spent in comparison, and then winning by the same 7 point margin as last time, how is this so wonderful? Walker no longer has a majority in the State Senate, and will spend the rest of his term defending himself against the John Doe investigation. Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow...
This is a huge win for America. Finally a politician has proven that you can stand up to ridiculous public unions and still get elected. All politicians should take note of this and make better decisions regarding, union pay, benefits and pensions. This is a great example of leadership that I wish we had in the White House. THANK YOU WISCONSIN. Let's Vote For More Change in 2012!
It's also a vote for common sense! When Walker took over there was a huge budget deficit in Wisconsin. Now, after a mere 1 1/2 years, that has been erased. So, it' really a vote for fiscal responsibility. The labor unions can rant and rave all they want about the "rights of labor," but the bottom line is that no one is entitled to get paid if there isn't money to pay for it. People, including "labor" are beginning to realize that the gravy train has come to an end. There is a limit to the waste, fraud and cronyism that the taxpayers are willing to put up with. And that limit has been reached.
CONGRATULATIONS to Scott Walker, Karl Rove, the Koch brothers, and Grover Norquist on re-buying the Wisconsin Governorship.
Good win after outspending by about eight times - approx 33 Million dollars - your opponet....but
Special CONGRATULATIONS TO Senator Mark Miller, the NEW Wisconsin Senate Majority Leader
who will keep Walker in check. MUCH better "win" for you, having avoided all the expense your opponets went to, and coming out on top.
Good job!
But condolences to the citizens of Wisconsin.....
unfortunately, YOU are the real loosers in this mess.
Sorry.
Amen Witch, Tax payers are sick and tired of working till they are 75 to pay for public union workers who retired at 50. Enough is enough. Thanks again for the commonsense vote WI.
Exactly!
Which is why the tax expenditures the wealthy - the 1%ers mostly - use to avoid paying taxes should be deleted and we should get back to the tax rates we had under President Clinton so we can pay our bill..
glad you are coming on board UAW!
We lower and middle class citizens ARE sick and tire of it - supporting the likes of David Koch, Karl Rove, Grover Norquist and Eric Cantor, etc.
It is way past time for change...
So if public employee unions are so bad, why are the State Police and Firefighters unions exempt under Walker?
I am just saying that if they are bad, they must ALL be bad, right?
Well....
not under the famous RNC/TEA/GOP double standards
Conservative mantra,: "Do as I say, not as I do."
"Just 27% said recall elections are appropriate for any reason"
How long have Democrats been forcing this recall? A year?
What better way to highlight how hopelessly out of touch they are... all that time and money wasted and barely a quarter of people even believe in the premise of their actions, just pathetic.
Correction he was elected twice!
So Conservatives seem to think Walker's win validates his "union-busting" strategy, and clears the path for a Romney victory in November. Liberals seem to think that this proves money can buy elections.
So did anyone actually read the hard numbers behind the vote in Wisconsin? The bottom line was that whether they agreed or disagreed with Walker's policies, most people felt that recalls should be only held in the case of fraud or misconduct. This vote was as much a referendum on recalls as it was on Walker's performance.
I see election results that only proved one thing- that the people of Wisconsin did not think Gov. Walker should be recalled for his politics. I believe the unions overreached, and that a recall election is not how you solve political differences.
For those of you who criticize President Obama for not getting involved, I think it was for the same reason - he believes that we should solve our political differences through discourse, elections and compromise - not through "scorched earth" tactics like a recall election. I for one am proud that he left it up to the people of Wisconsin to make that decision and remained "above the fray".
If Wlker's policies were so beloved, why did he not get more support? I th
I find it funny that the media will not call out the Walker administration for the so called "balanced budget". He borrowed money from future generations of the people of WI and he diverted education funds to fund the govt to claim the budget was balanced. And gave big tax breaks to companies that have not created a single job as of yet to merit the tax break. THEY ARE DEAD LAST IN JOB CREATINON IN AMERICA! I also found it funny that nowhere in this article is mentioned that the republicans were playing with +$30 million vs the $3 million or so the democrats had to work with. The article makes it seem like this was a fair fight when it was not. Thankfully the rest of America is not as uninformed or as easily persuaded by TV adds as WI appears to be.
Also lets not forget, the unions had conceded all of Walkers request about cut backs when this whole thing began and still went after their collective rights. Republicans can only call it a win, in any scenario, when it involves taking rights away from citizens
I'm all for standing up to the unions when they get out of hand. But what Walker did is not standing up to unions-- it's squashing them. And I believe unions are necessary and do have their place. Additionally, the way Walker did it is absolutely low. He said he wanted to make changes in order to fix the budget, and the unions were willing to work with him and in fact ceded the changes he wanted in order to make it happen. But that wasn't what he really wanted. He wanted to crush the unions. The guy is a weasel.
@ Feisty.... BWAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
@ Not as stupid as yo uthink
I can see you are as stupid as you talk.
I suppose you want that moron Dimwit Doyle back in office who left the state in such a deficit they were near bankruptcy.
In a short time, Walker has WI in a SURPLUS.
Sound familiar Dimwits? Now ROMNEY has to go in and fix OBOZO's mindless spending and credit rating decline!!
The credit rating issue was the result of the Super Committee, not Obama.
Jeez people you cannot even get your couple-year-old history right.
Laker Steve: Please name the policiesof Barack Obama that are currently driving the deficit. Take your time.
I'll name 5 Dubya Bush policies to every one you somehow scratch up.
The only way Wisconsin would get Closure, was dump Walker !!!!!!!! Throw this Koch paid Bum Out !!!!!!!!
The people in Wisconsin are fortunate to have a man like Scott Walker looking out for them. In 2010 Iowa replaced Democrat Chet Culver with a better Republican. Unfortunately before Culver got out of office he gave the public unions here a non-negotiated $200,000,000.00 pay and benifit increase. Iowa tax payers got stuck paying for Culver's massive union bribe... VOTE FOR MORE CHANGE IN 2012!
Yeah, and didn't those same pollsters say the recall was "too close to call". Time to wake up and smell the coffee. WI just became ANOTHER battleground state that Obama MUST have for re-election. And today it doesn't look good for Obama.
Anyone assuming WI goes in favor of Obama is just NAIVE.
Raider...
Many supporters of Mr. Obama are indeed naive...they believe he actually cares about what they think and they believe what he says when his lips move. It doesn't matter what he does...it only matters what he says he's done or says he is going to do.
Yesterday was the day America lost its innocence. Let me explain.
I was born and raised in the former Soviet Union, in the middle of nowhere to a teacher
mother and an electrician father. My dad was an after-WWII orphan; my mom grew
up in the country working the fields since the age of 5. I started to work in
the fields when I was 7.
At about that age I decided that I would leave the USSR and go live in America. My
dad used to listen to the always-jammed “Voice of America” on a short-wave
radio, and always told me how wonderful America was – people there live by the
rules, and if you work hard – you will get ahead. Whereas in the USSR, we knew,
only the rich (the Communist Party big shots and their friends) had opportunities; the rest of us did not.
Long story short, I had to “crawl over broken glass” to come to America. But here I
am now, and proudly call this country home since 1995.
When I came here, I realized that what my daddy always told me was true: America lived by the rules, worked hard, and had opportunities for everyone, even people like me. Moreover, human life was treasured (unlike in the USSR), everyone had a voice in the democratic process through voting. The rich were there, but they were not ostentatiously arrogant compared to the rest of the Americans – or rather, the rest of the Americans were not dirt-poor like we were in the Soviet Union.
American history was the least bloody and the most inspirational in the entire history
of human civilization. While America did allow certain egregious atrocities to
take place – such as the annihilation of the Native Americans and Slavery – two
factors help justify it: 1) those were different times when people everywhere really
did think that some humans were superior to others, i.e. there were different classes
of humans; 2) America was one of the first who realized that really *all* people
are equal under God, and took giant steps to right the wrongs. Even if one of
them required a Civil War to right it.
I want to emphasize again: it took bravery and an incredible vision to be willing
to go fight you white fellow
countrymen (who look just like you) so that you black fellow countrymen (who
look entirely different from you) can have equal rights. Nowhere else in the
World anything like this ever happened. America was founded on the moral
high-ground, and its main ideal – that all men are equal – was fiercely and
tirelessly defended.
Compare this to every other country in the World: I’ll take just a few that I know
best. Russia and France – they were not founded on moral high grounds. Russia
had domestic slavery until 1869 (meaning the majority of Russians were enslaved
to their lords from birth). France of course was much more enlightened, but the
upper class was light-years away from the rest of the country (“Let them eat
cake”!). The upper classes and the lower classes. One group of people with all
the resources and power and the other one with literally nothing, but working
to support the upper class.
Those two societies were never innocent, and two bloody and bitter revolutions were
needed to enforce the vision of “all men created equal”. (In Russia, of course,
it never took root, just the differences between the rich and the poor were not
as stark; France did fare better after their Revolution, but it took them 300 years
to emerge.) Most importantly, these two revolutions were so bloody because they
turned into civil wars: brother against brother, son against father, neighbor against
neighbor. In my eyes, it is the ultimate sin, when folks turn on each other
like that.
Now, if you think about it, the most revolting and bloodiest conflicts in the World
are just like that – one tribe against the other, brother against brother etc.
Why is it so disturbing? Because it breaks the very moral fiber that bonds us
together as families, neighbors and communities. When that happens, it takes
decades to heal, and some wounds never heal – people live their lives and die
without ever speaking to each other. Torn, wounded generations.
Now you see what I mean? Sounds familiar? Brother against brother, husband against
wife, son against father? Brought to you by Walker and the GOP. At this point I
don’t care what purpose they are pursuing, what wrong they are trying to right.
They broke the sacred bonds that have always held the civility of this country together, which took another Civil War to prevent from happening (note: in the American Civil War it was not brother
against brother, it was North against South, state against state; the family fabric was *not* torn). The recall yesterday was trying to un-do this damage, but only ripped the divide further. Walker et al did what all the others did in the Old World before them – used money and power to pit the lil’
folks one against the other, “divide and conquer”. Isn’t it ironic that this was the preferred method of ruling by the bloodiest Roman Emperors? I bet Walker felt like such a big man, just saying it: “divide and conquer”.
And thus America lost its innocence. It now joins Russia and France and the rest of the Old World that is mired in the sin of dividing men into classes and where money buys everything.
"But condolences to the citizens of Wisconsin.....
unfortunately, YOU are the real loosers in this mess."
Yes, poor citizens, they've had to put up with the state budget being balanced since Walker took office, they've had to put up with millions of dollars in savings. They've had to put up with being allowed to opt out of mandatory public union membership, and mandatory public union dues if they wish (and roughly 50% HAVE).
If only the citizens in my home state of California could suffer as the Wisconsinites have under Walker. I dream of the day.
Dear AnotherNewVoter:
Amazing post. Should be required reading. Thank you for writing it.
Another New Voter,
You realize that before Gov. Walker and Citizens United, The group with the most corrupt power and money to influence politicians were UNIONS. This goes back further than Jimmy Hoffa. Now it is a level playing field. Voters can pool their resources like unions pooled their members dues and make their choices.
Liberal and Unions just don't like that someone else is using their political weapon to balance the political landscape. Obviosly money doesn't guarantee good leadership. Look at all the many Obama had in 2008 and look at the pitiful 3.5 years of leadership since..
ummmmm..I may be wrong...but I don't think it was Walker who called for his own recall...and thus pitted brother against brother............
No, it was Walker who attacked the middle and working class, going after the unions, and putting their jobs in jeopardy.
newday -
How is preserving the taxpaying middle class by helping to relieve the tax burden an attack?
Umm, Tammy: ask yourself this: how is attacking the middle class worker, who pays TAXES helpful to the tax burden? If you believe that this was about budgets, or tax burden, or ANYTHING other than attacking a group that generally supports the Democrats, you are naive in the extreme and should not cast another vote until you educate yourself.
And by the way? The balanced budget that Walker is touting? He did that by pushing it off to the future. Good for you if you voted for him, your children will be stuck with the bill.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Walker is a Dishonor to America" <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
NewDay, These public union members always claim to be just "Middle Class Tax Payers" like the rest of us. Except these Union members will be able to retire at 50 with pension benifits equivalent to a multi-millionaires net worth funded by the real working middle class who will continue working deep in to their 70's just to pay for these ridiculous benifits.
Listen Walker was not recalled because more WI voters liked his policy of balancing the budget. Unions need to find some other body to leach off of. It sounds like Wisconsin voters have had enough of it....
You are SO full of it UAW: I worked for a state agency years ago, and left because the pay is so low. The benefits were supposed to keep the critical need professionals like me working for slave wages. But, we PAID IN to insurance and retirement. A lot of my colleagues stayed out of sense of altruism, I got tired of people like you. No one I know has retired at 50. I made better money privately and did pro bono work to satisfy my altruistic streak which runs deep in me.
But here is the answer: While your jealousy amuses me, instead of being so vindictive about what they other guy might have, why don't you concern yourself with funding your own? Isn't that the mantra of the "teabagger" anyway? Or was it "get your hands off my Social Security. You folks are a confusing lot.
To UAW, GingerBean, JoAn1, NoJo, WhiteCollar etc. All the right wing Americans celebrating Walker victory today.
What happened yesterday in Wisconsin, actually, culminated yesterday, but started back in the cold Winter a few months back, was a major milestone in America's history: America lost its innocence (see my prior post). Now America officially joined the broken, bloody Old World by proving that Money is Power, and Money is strong enough to break even family bonds. What a Sad Day. America has always been a Beacon of Light for people like me, with all of us, immigrants, flocking to it, like moths to light , from our own oppressive governments and countries with no social justice. And it still is to many - but not to me, not anymore.
You say Walker did not call his own recall - yup, of course he did not. The Unions did that. So what did Walker do? He took basically took *the only right*, the only weapon, from the working people to stand up for themselves, and made it illegal. He basically said: "I am the Lord, I will do what I want, and you do the best you can. You don't like it? Too bad. You cannot come at me with a gun, nor a knife, nor a spade. Because If I see you with one, I will have to put you in jail for violating the law". So he disarmed the Working Man of the only tool they had - collective bargaining.
You say Unions were and are corrupt? Heck, Yeah! Name me one institution that is not corrupt. Corruption is everywhere where humans are involved, just give it enough time. It's like rot: you clean out the corruption, and make them live by the rules again; you do not destroy the institutions, you do not undercut the already-powerless and poor from the only weapon they had - their numbers, in collective bargaining. You people on the right know it ain't right, no matter how you spin it.
So, it was not just the recall that pitted brother against brother, it was this "collective bargaining" thing that became illegal under Walker. And damn you if you think it had to do anything with the budget - no, it's all and only about power. Walker and the GOP did it. That's what I call "the loss of innocence", this forceful taking away of collective power, bankrolled by very few interested individuals and organizations who wanted it to be done.
And think about the irony here: collective bargaining is illegal now, i.e. when a number of people get together they *cannot* act like one when it comes to salary and benefits they can demand from the Lord. However, if they were to spend their money collectively to Praise the Lord (Citizens United), that's OK, they can spend as much as they want to. Then the collective is OK and is endowed with the same rights as the individuals. Talk about bending all the laws your ways - money can do all this, and more, more egregious things.
So, today is a very sad day. For so many reasons. But the one, the big one, is that America had eaten the forbidden apple, and got expelled from Eden - for all of us around the World.
Keep posting. AnotherNewVoter, yours is an important voice.
Thank you, New Day Dawning - love your name. I will keep posting, as I have been for many years - feel free to click on my name and read all the other posts where I tried to convey the same message, over and over: America the Beautiful, Don't Destroy Thyself! This is the only country in the World that is still the Shining Beacon of Hope and Justice, to all the people everwhere around the globe; here it is called "The American Dream". Do not destroy it. Or else all will be lost :( You cannot put a broken cup together, you know.
I will check out your posts, AnotherNewVoter. Thanks for the offer.
Some say the Wisconsin Gov is a crook, is under investigation and may be indicted. Neighboring state, Illinios has several former Gov's still living and the majority have been indicted, some convicted and have served jail time. Florida Governor was CEO of a Company that defrauded the Feds of mega-millions in Medicare and several of his officers at that company have plead guility or been judged guilty and have served time and paid fines. Gov Scott declared he knew nothing of the dastardly deeds his staff was perpetrating and the Law let him walk. He moved from alabama to Florida and used his ilgotten gains to buy a Governorship. But jusy because crooks own and control our various gubmints doesn't mean the public employees haven't build up a featherbed over the decades. One that can no longer be supported by the disappearing middle class. Feel bad for the truly good hard working folks who have been productive - they get thrown out with the bums when shake ups happen. But gubmint employees should not be imune from shake ups. When Gubmint employees decide dumb things like the Cal-Trans Cheif who gave the Bridge project to a Chinese company - thus turning his back on his own people - the ones who pay his salary you have to be ready when the citizens strike back at ya. Don't do dumb stuff and they'll leave you alone. Do the dumb stuff adn expect a backlash. What's so hard about understanding that ?
Right-Wing Billionaires Behind Mitt Romney
They're trying to buy a presidency - and they expect a big payoff on their investment
By Tim Dickinson
Presidential politics has always been a rich man's game. But now, thanks to the Supreme Court ruling in Citizens United that upended decades of limits on campaign donations, financing a presidential race is the exclusive domain of the kind of megadonor whose portfolios make Mitt Romney look middle-class. "I have lots of money, and can give it legally now," Texas billionaire and top GOP moneyman Harold Simmons recently bragged to The Wall Street Journal. "Just never to Democrats."
THE COKE DEALER: William Koch
Position The "other" Koch brother, Bill sold his stake in Koch Industries to brothers David and Charles in the 1980s. He now runs Oxbow Carbon, a global dealer in petroleum coke, a cement-manufacturing fuel that's high in climate-warming carbon dioxide.
Age 72
Fortune $4 billion (Forbes 400 rank: 81)
Current Donations Gave $2 million to Romney's Super PAC, including $250,000 in his own name, $750,000 through Oxbow Carbon and another $1 million through a subsidiary. A sister company of Oxbow operates a Colorado mine that sells coal to the federal government – meaning that its campaign contribution is subsidized, in part, by taxpayers.
What He Wants To pollute for free. Koch's fortune is tied up in some of the nation's dirtiest industries. He blasts the EPA, which has been trying to crack down on carbon pollution, as "hyperaggressive."
THE WASTE BARON: Harold Simmons
Position Traffics in toxic chemicals and hazardous waste as head of Contran; owns one of the world's largest producers of titanium. A former corporate raider nicknamed "Ice Man," he pioneered the leveraged-buyout tactics that decimated American industry.
Age 81
Fortune $9.8 billion (Forbes rank: 33)
Current Donations Before backing Romney with $800,000, Simmons made $1 million bets on Rick Perry, Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum. His total giving of $16.7 million makes him the GOP's second-largest investor after Adelson. Most of the cash went to American Crossroads, the Super PAC founded by Karl Rove that has close ties to the Romney campaign.
What He Wants Plans to store radioactive waste from 36 states in an underground dump in Texas; has been sued repeatedly by the Justice Department for failing to clean up contaminated Superfund sites. Calls Obama "the most dangerous American alive, because he would eliminate free enterprise in this country."
THE McMANSIONEER: Bob Perry
Position Owner of Perry Homes, a megabuilder of high-end sprawl in Texas.
Age 79
Fortune Estimated at $600 million
Current Donations At $4 million, "Bobby Jack" is the top donor to Romney's Super PAC – including a $3 million lifeline in February, after Romney went for broke in Florida. The two have enjoyed profitable relations since 2005, when Romney chaired the Republican Governors Association. Perry has also given nearly $2.5 million to American Crossroads.
What He Wants Perry's top issue is "tort reform," which would limit the size of jury awards against homebuilders who do shoddy work. He knows political favors can be bought: He was a big donor to every justice on the Texas Supreme Court – known derisively as "the Perry Court" – which vacated an $800,000 judgment against Perry for crappy construction. A jury in the same case later hit Perry with $58 million in damages.
MR. FAIR AND NEWBALANCED: Jim Davis
Position Chairman of New Balance shoes
Age 69
Fortune $1.8 billion (Forbes rank: 242)
Current Donations Gave $1 million to Romney's Super PAC. The donation was so toxic for business that New Balance's CEO raced to Facebook to dismiss it as "a private donation and not a contribution from New Balance."
What He Wants A lucrative defense contract. Soldiers currently get a cash allowance to purchase sneakers made anywhere; New Balance has lobbied the Pentagon to buy its made-in-America shoes in bulk.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/right-wing-billionaires-behind-mitt-romney-20120524?page=2
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I tried to put this up Monday and apparently it set a bunch of you’ll Yahoo’s teeth on edge.
Good thing I’m married to a RH-ex- Schoolteacher. You know the best thing about being married to a School Teacher. They keep you at it till you get it right. So let’s try this deal again.
You’lls Main Man Willard in his never ending quest to be President of these United States apparently is willing to sell that same Presidency to the Highest Bidder. There ain’t a lie that he won’t tell, a story he won’t stretch and an innuendo he won’t use.
These men are Yahoo’s and Wing nuts blinded by Greed and Avarice. If they achieve what they are wanting to achieve the outcome ain’t going to be good for We the People and that includes you’ll Yahoo’s that are on here trying to throw a cloak over this steaming pile of Doggy Poo
Now you’ll Yahoo’s can do a number of things
You can come up with a bunch of False Equivalencies. There ain’t none. Not this time around.
You can ignore it. Old Willard and the Fellers are hoping you do this. Just keep in mind that you’re selling yourself along with We the People down the river when you do this.
You can Collapse it (again).
There one thing that you can’t do and that is Stop it. You can slow it up some but the Truth always comes out somehow.
Ir - say, have they found Obama's coke dealer?
your little article asserts that William Koch is a COKE dealer. huh.
Now O has admitted to doing cocaine, care to comment?
Any idea how a guy who spent his last two years in high school in a 'daze' ended up at Columbia and Harvard?
Like you ay IR - the truth always comes out. Unlike, say Obama college transcripts. Now why is that IR?
What a difference four years make. In 2008, this board was full of comments on how fantastic it was that Obama eschewed public financing- and out raised McCain. When it was pointed out that Obama had lots of Wall Street money, the left opined that Wall Street was smart enough to go for the "best" candidate.
Funny how money was not a problem then- but now, suddenly, the VERY SAME PEOPLE are telling us it is a problem.
Kind of like how the same people who screamed blue murder about dunking terrorists to get information about their next attack praise to high heaven Obama obliterating them by remote control-often, along with their families.
I will admit, however, that I was a lot more disturbed by the ratings of people who can hold two contradictory thoughts at the same time before 2010-and last night. It now appears that there is a light at the end of the tunnel- and this time, it isn't an oncoming train.
If you are really interested in helping Obama, forget cash. Send moving cartons- they're going to need them. Soon.
***RE WISCONSIN***
You people still think "this is what Democracy looks like?"
I sure do. The people of a state coming together to CONFIRM what they already agreed on TWO years ago: they want Scott Walker as governor. They were put in a situation where they were forced to beat back the infantile forces of entitlement and anarchy just because some whiny, pissy-pants libs didn't like the results in 2010. Too bad.
And it's just gonna get better.
Now the media is going to turn hard on Obama.
More stories about his drug use, his 1996 BBQ at Ayers' house.
Fast and Furious and Corzine, oh my.
IR, terrific information, thanks for posting it. Staggering amounts of money given by so few that when spent on ads gives no mention as to who paid for it. Voters would dismiss an ad criticizing President Obama's clean, renewable energy policies IF they knew it was Koch Bros, big oil, gas or coal funding that criticism.
Citizens United unleased the floodgates just as President Obama warned in the SOTU speech in 2011. I hope Chief Justice Roberts is proud of his accomplishment since he and the right-wing activists judges' goal all along has been to rule in favor of business and against people. Every decision they have made has been against the people; I don't expect that to change anytime soon.
Guess Spanky getting spanked and humiliated a few times yesterday by Domenico hasn't affected his attitude or his tactic--change the topic from the obvious multi-millions buying our democracy to some stupid jerkwad nonsense. Back to ignore so don't bother, spankster, get your buddies to talk to you; they're on the same level.
IR---thanks for pointing out what is the inevitable result of the Citizens United decision. I hope people tire of their politicians being bought and paid for by the 1%.
How is it you people are so afraid of ads?
And Jody - go back and read my chat with DOminico. In fact, in light of the actual results my comments on the relative value of the questioning and the exit polls themselves was spot on.
Oh and Jody - 'jerkwad?' What, are you in the 4th grade, or does defeat just wreck your ability to communicate?
Today is going to be a good day.
Hey - maybe Dominico can do an article here about how terribly wrong they got it last night at first?
You know - at first it was too close to call, huge democratic turnouts and all that. man, were the political reporters dead wrong.
So Jody, you think Dominico will do that? Yo think he is capable?
Guess we'll see, right?
Who the frick is Tim Dickinson?????!!!!!! Another nobody with an agenda. The quicksand is coming up around your neck and you are grasping for anything to get out but it is too late.
Thank you for this - I totally forgot how poor all the Democratic politicians are.
Hit a nerve, heh spankster? Good, that made my day. No, you got spanked but keep spinning it, it's what conservatives do best. The 4th grader is you every day and jerkwad is the nicest word I could pick for FR rules. In case you didn't notice, I'm not all upset, hot and bothered because Walker won; quite the contrary, it's politics and there are winners and losers but it is how you play the game that counts, it is fighting the fight regardless of the outcome. So, now I'll be leaving; you know, in the many months I have not bothered to open your comments, you still post nothing worth reading. Have a good day, Spankster, be careful, though, you don't take criticism well.
Don't go away all bitter Jody. Just go away, you jackwagon.
Don't be mad Jody has more intelligence than you. Just content yourself to being a financial leech for the rest of your existence as you wage keyboard wars JAS1.
Jody,
Koch Brothers? They can splash it all over their ads, the truth is the majority of people never heard of the Koch Brothers.
Oh Spanky...
You are asserting that President Obama snorted cocain????
Well, I believe that if he did, he didn't inhale...
Oh, sorry - maybe that was the last Democratic President....
Hard to keep it all straight isn't it?
Lighten up and smile a little = you are coming off an important political win...
Of course, you are suffering an important political loss too I guess (Wisconsin Senate results.)
Still -have some fun!
Poor JoAnna: now you are bitterly angry at Jody, because of the following that she has on FR? So hard to be you, dear, so mendacious and tedious. Tell you what...if you go to your local community college and try to educate yourself, why, you might learn to write as well as Jody does. They have special services there that can help you.
Jody, it WAS fun watching Domenico take Spanky apart in the most civil way possible. I had quite the convo with him too, and he ran away.
That was some AWESOME stuff... NDD!
What a great demonstration on how right wing nuts treat their hosts...
PS: The only one who has been beat down more by the mods would be our very own Snookie-Joe! She still holds the record for being called out on her BS... lol
When you're as far gone as Snuffy - I highly doubt it! ;o)
Well, one can hope, Feisty.
I read the exchange between Sparky and Domenico yesterday and I was surprised to see that Domenico tried to school Spanky on civility. Granted, Sparky likes to stir the pot , but he is pretty mild in comparison to several people here. I thought it was hypocritical for Domenico to call him out on it.
Just my observation.
"Just 27% said recall elections are appropriate for any reason"
How long have Democrats been forcing this recall? A year?
What better way to highlight how hopelessly out of touch they are... all that time and money wasted and barely a quarter of people even believe in the premise of their actions, just pathetic.
post 4.14, typical pseudo intellect BS. Laughable.
Crystal - as opposed to your no intelligence, no class, no nothing posts???
No sanity in the GOP!
Obama- one and done! Class that SS
Crystal - I try not to post to gutter trash like you. I mean, you must go dumpster diving at least once a day!
President Obama will go into office for his 2nd term in January 2013. Get used to it.
Not a speck of sanity or class in the GOP - as Crystal shows with each post!
Obama/Biden 2012
Things. American Things. They are changing. Understanding, adherence to civics, tolerance, fairness and equality, justice and individual freedoms of choice, are now, more often than not, all kicked to the gutter to the favor of national corruption that is comprised basically of an atmosphere of greed, hatred, and total disregard for the different and less fortunate. Rationalizations of logical, principled, yet contrary intent, handed down by our fore-bearer's, through both actions and documentation, simply pale in the face of modern greed, and the collective right to hate. Foundation of things are no longer as was designed.
To the esteemed "David Walker", "Classy Feisty", "Independent Va. Redneck", "Jody, Iowa", "Red Devil PS" "Amy B. Portland, Me", and all those many caring and classy progressives who post here. You give much hope to many. You writing has afforded me much insight, wisdom, and inspiration. With much deference and sincerity I thank each of you. I do though, agree with David. We lost big last night. The country lost on a much grander scale. When Wisconsinites behave as Alabaman's, Georgians, Idahoan's, and Mississippian's, the proof of the depth of perverted bastardization of the fundamental principals of our nation becomes overwhelmingly evident. As "Classy Feisty" vowed; We must not yet throw in our towels, and of course She is correct. I yet hold mine, but, truthfully, it is tear stained. Best regards to all.
Thanks for cluing me in on the lounge-lizard lawyers exchange with Domenico. That was an entertaining read. Talk about a drunk sailor rampage. Wonder if the lounge-lizard donned his burnt orange or key-lime leisure suit for the exchange. From the heated rants, I gather Ms. Spanky dined alone at the local Outback. Hopefully, Sapnky-Rover ducked out in time to avoid the kick from the faux alligator shoes. Poor Spanky Jr. probably spent the night in the RV - at least he got a break from the forced-fed 27+ taco dinner. I dare say, none of them dared utter the word 'jerkwad'.
Not so Stupid,
Of course, you are suffering an important political loss too I guess (Wisconsin Senate results.)
That's a good thing. Nothing good ever happens when once side has asuper majority. We should always have a balance.
...And with Mark Miller as the new Speaker of the House, Wisconsin will have that & Walker will be kept in check.
Mac Forrester: that was a classy post. Thanks for writing. Remember, when the pendulum swings too far to one side, it always swings back. This was a skirmish. Nothing more. Bigger fights ahead.
Mac - thanks for the kind words!
As long as I can continue to give you and the others "hope", I'll continue to fight for making this country better!
Mac - wonderful post and so true. We seem to have lost our way - for a while. I do believe we, as a country, will come back to the standards we believe in. We will again, as a people, aim high while at the same time remembering that there are always those less fortunate, that we should give a hand up - not a hand out. We will again remember that as a country we are at our best when we all succeed - not just a few.
We've taken a few steps back lately as the greedy who don't care have tried to steer the country so that only those like them succeed. We can do better and we have to do better.
November will be the real test. We have to keep our President in office and give him the support in Congress to help us move forward.
Obama/Biden 2012
Mac Hang tough. The weight challenged Lady ain't even tuning up yet. Truth has a way of prevailing. May come a little late for us Old-Leaguer's but I have hope for a new generation. Always remember " Americans having exhausted all other possibility's will generally step up and do the right thing" Winston Churchill if I have my quotes right.
ha ha ha ha, past "hope and change" and into delusion and fantasy lol
MacForrester, was gone for awhile but want to thank you for your terrific comment and for the kind words. Keep reading and posting every now and then.
Anyone notice that Crystal appears to be a raving lunatic? Clearly related to Damage!
Crystal cannot be a "raving lunatic"...she doesn't come close to stating that "we have to keep our president in office" and she does not believe that he knows how to "help move us forward".
There is sanity in her thought process.
tony - clearly you are two peas in a pod. There is no sanity in any part of the GOP as you and Crystal show with each post. Friend of hers are ya? No one else would find any of her rantings even slightly sane.
No sanity in the GOP!
Great post Mac - we can only hope rationality prevails. McCarthyism was a short lived but genuinely scary period. We seem to again be living through that type of corrupt, greedy, fear driven society, with the mindless element of the conservative party checking under their beds hourly for a red commie.
What strikes me the most in reading all the anti-union commentaries/opinions is that Americans, overwhelmingly, relish in settling for less. Americans have lost their pensions and benefits and suffered loses in income in exchange for increased corporate profits (hundreds of billions yearly) and CEO pay (now averaging 10M per year). And rather than support union efforts to keep those benefits for the some of the lowest wage earners in our society, they vilify public employees and tell us they deserve reduced salaries/pensions/benefits. Talk about lowering the bar, or one's standards. What happened to the America that enjoyed raising the bar and raising standards, for everyone.
No wonder corporations and their owners like the Koch Brothers keep getting richer .. they convince average Americans they are worthless, lazy scum and should work for and settle for less and less. Too bad the privilege of voting doesn't come with a self-worth test. Too bad Americans have bought into the "I am worthless, and my neighbor is utterly worthless" mantra.
Aaahhh, we still have SpeekingInsanity with her flamethrowing attacks at Crystal in #4.32 and at tony in #4.35 ! Some pretty nasty stuff there "Sanity" .... I mean, after all, calling someone a "raving lunatic" is clearly a violation of the Code of Honor for this website. You protest so loudly, with all these references towards "mental illness" .... it kind of looks like you are deflecting once again !!
Were you equally concerned about the COH violations that Crystal has made?
CRYSTAL: "ha ha ha ha, past "hope and change" and into delusion and fantasy lol"
As opposed to your wallowing in despair and stagnation. And that is nothing to laugh out loud about. Not unless you're delusional.
Damage123: "just because some whiny, pissy-pants libs didn't like the results in 2010. Too bad."
Sounds EXACTLY like you with Obama--you don't like the results in 2008--TOO BAD!
Walker Wins, Labor Loses. While the FT heading seems appropriate this morning, perhaps the more appropriate heading should be this: Big Business wins, all labor (both nonunion and union) loses. Whether one is union or anti-union, the decline of nonunion wages will be consistent with the decline of collective bargaining. That's fact, not fiction.
Disappointed, Yes. Discouraged, No. Wisconsin voters made their decision to keep Scott Walker as their Governor for whatever reasons. It is not my place to criticize the choice they made because the choice was theirs. I could cheer them on, applaud their efforts or argue their case. It is Wisconsin citizens who will either regret that decision later or be pleased with it.
Wisconsin voters recalling Scott Walker was a long shot as are most recall elections but it was the first such election since the disastrous Citizens United decision. We saw the results of the SCOTUS decision first in the GOP presidential primaries and now in the millions and millions of secret money funneled into the Walker campaign. One multi-billionaire can fund a candidate for an entire campaign drowning out all others. Right, left or center politically--there is something very wrong with a democracy where one or two wealthy people can have such influence and never be required to tell voters who is paying for the ads or the mailers. Walker outspent Barrett 7 to 1.
The goal of the recall election was to remove Walker but an equally important concept for citizens was to put Wisconsin lawmakers on notice--voters will not be silent, they will not go softly into the night, they will fight for their rights however long it takes. While Walker may have won last night, he awakened the sleeping giant. Republicans may be cheering their victory but watching democracy of the people, by the people and for the people the last year has been inspiring. Democrats are not defeated, they are energized.
To the hard working democrats and independents and those republicans who joined the fight against Walker, job well done. They worked hard to get the needed signatures to hold a recall election, they made phone calls, knocked on doors, drove people who needed rides to the polls, they represented democracy as it should be from the ground up. As that saying goes, it is better to have fought and lost than never to have tried.
Iowa Primary. 22-year veteran GOP State Senator Jim Hahn lost his primary challenge; this could provide the democrat a chance to win that seat because well-known incumbents are hard to beat. Hahn's loss was a surprise. Democrat Dave Loebsack handily defeated the challenge from Joe Seng. There were many GOP primary challenges to GOP candidates state wide. Charles Grassley's grandson managed to survive his primary challenger--darn, rumors float that Grassley is grooming him to replace him when he finally retires. Former First Lady Christie Vilsack will run against Iowa's Tea Party bigot Steve King.
I think Citizens United is the perfect antidote for what ails America. Finally these ridiculous unions who pool thier members money have to compete against the tax payers who can pool thier campaign dollars.
Walker proved it's possible to stand up to unions and win elections. That is good for America and the tax payer....
And I think that is CRAZY === Do you truly want to give this country to the Kochs & 1%ers and the Chinese?
Corporations really and truly are NOT people, regardless of what your RNC/TEA Platform plank is and your TEA-GOP talking point of the day says.
Come back to reality!!!!!
Try some truth for a refreshing change.
Not as Stupid - the far right has no problem with a group buying offices for the GOP. They know it's the only way they can win - if you call that winning. They have no problem with putting a "For Sale" sign on the United States.
Obama/Biden 2012
Yes, SS:
Worship of the almighty dollar is the root of ALL evil...
but some use it to buy elections.
We must be on guard that it doesn't happen this November; we know they are going to attempt it..
work to do!
Damage123: "just because some whiny, pissy-pants libs didn't like the results in 2010. Too bad."
Sounds a lot like you with Obama--you don't like the results in 2008--TOO BAD!
Labor didn't lose, public labor lost, as it should. Public employees should not be allowed to unionize, as it sets up an unavoidable conflict of interest - when politicians are our only protection from our own employees, and those employees can influence elections and elect the politicians, taxpayers lose.
Unions in the private sector are needed, even now, and for the most part do a good job of balancing employee interest with business interest - there are problems, as we have seen in the Seattle area and Detroit most recently, but overall, I see no problem with the option of employees to unionize. Option being the operative word.
Public unions are bankrupting cities around the nation. California cities are finally beginning to push back like we saw last night in San Jose and San Diego - two very liberal cities, who voted overwhelmingly to reduce public union pensions. We need some sanity in all of this, as the name calling and monstrous lies are no longer working.
The Koch mob did a good job dividing the State of Wisconsin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are so right Mister Wonderful. Unions serve a greater purpose but I really don't understand why public employees need to unionize. They do not have a selfish CEO running things looking to lay them off at any turn or reduce their benefits to nothing just so he can make a bigger bonus. I am frustrated that Democrats and labor unions themselves can not see this and back off the public union push and instead keep moving forward with unionizing the private sector that has seen such a drawback in benefits and pay in the last few decades.
Many men came here as soldiers.
Many men will pass this way.
Many men will count the hours.
As they live the longest day.
Many men are tired and weary.
Many men are here to stay.
Many men won't see the sunset.
When it ends the longest day.
The longest day the longest day.
This will be the longest day.
Filled with hopes and filled with fears.
Filled with blood and sweat and tears.
Many men the mighty thousands.
Many men to victory.
Marching on right into battle.
In the longest day in history.
Here's to the guys who stormed the beaches of Normandy and dropped behind enemy lines into towns like Sainte-Mère-Église and Sainte Marie du Mont on D-Day, 68 years ago today. Thank you!!!
Da Noid -
Thank you as well. I had to look it up - never would have guessed Paul Anka as the author - I'm guessing from the movie soundtrack? In any case, thanks for reminding us again of what REALLY matters about this date in history.
Well done Da Noid! Wow, talk about a game changing event.
Da Noid My father and several of my uncles were WWII veterans. That generation had true courage and sense of commitment.
Da Noid - thank you for a post reminding all of us about what this day commemorates.
Labor didn't lose.....Unions lost. The general working slob who doesn't have dozens of paid holidays, a golden parachute for retirement, low cost health care programs and a host of other benefits that unionized workers seem to take for granted (the word here is benefit, not obligation nor right of entitlement) can finally perhaps see some of the fruits of their labor instead of it being spent on taxes so that other people can have a better life than the guy working in the private sector. I don't think that the private sector workers have a great deal of sympathy for the unionized workers complaints of low wages or having to pay a share for their medical insurances as these private sector workers already do those things, plus more in the tax dollars they expend to support the unionized workers.....And seeing as how all workers are not able to have union jobs, receiving same pay and benefits......Well, what is good for the goose......Unions would like to spend alot of money on advertising to convince us that they represent all working people, but if that were true, there would be more parity between private sector and union sector jobs of the same type. Unions only represent the people whom they extort union dues from, and only those who are willing to have their thoughts and opinions shaped by a union steward. The only folks that seem to stay in the same company for their entire working career are union workers, despite their complaints, they are not readily willing to change their job and benefits for a free market position in another company. Well, nothing of for free and nothing is coming in the mail-everyone has to pay their way if the world is to work (and I mean the entire world) And before you all jump onto the disabled/differently abled bandwagon......there used to be a time when it was considered normal to help prepare people for a different occupation, one that fell within their physical and mental abilities so that they could continue to derive self worth from actually taking pride in providing for themselves and contributing to a company or community. Disability did not constitute a free pass from having to do something for yourself. My mother had to carry around a portable oxygen tank, yet she couldn't get handicapped plates for her car so that she could park a bit closer to the entrances; and yet, any given day, I can go into a mall parking lot and find dozens of handicapped plates affixed to 4x4 SUV's that are jacked up so high you need an elevator to get into them-can somebody please define the handicap that fits this definition???? Or the people who get out of these SUV's puffing on a cigarette? Or the people who load the 50lb bags of dog food into the back of the SUV without assistance?????? Perhaps the real message of Wisconsin and the conservative movement is that everyone has to accept some responsibility for their welfare and stop assuming that somebody else is obligated to do so for them. This is not about charity or concern for the fellow human beings, but rather the unions squealing because their priveleged status among the working people isn't sacrosanct any longer.
Hey Spanky, why are you such a turd to everyone? Is your life really that pathetic and lonely? Your the most vile, hateful POS I have ever seen on a blog.
Let's get somethng straight. There are no winners of recall elections, only survivors. You win a recall election by not having to be in one.
Perhaps but there sure as hell are losers.
And here Labor and Obama, by failing once again to get involved lost big.
Labor took a triple beating last night- not just in Wisconsin, but in San Diego and San Jose, where there was an overwhelming majority for cutting union pensions.
Ouch.
Oh- and raising taxes to fund "cancer research"- like anybody believed that- also failed.
Imagine that- liberal Californians voting that way. Think it has anything to do with the revelation that the extra money vanity plates make- that was supposed to be dedicated to certain causes- actually went into the general fund?
I do.
JohnNY-3623017 said: There are no winners of recall elections, only survivors. You win a recall election by not having to be in one.
You articulated my thoughts exactly, and so much better than I have been able to put it into words. Thank you.
The recall of Walker was perpetrated by a bunch of Democrats that fled the state rather then do their job. The failure of the recall proves the residents of the state feel that Walker has them on the right track, and 38% of union households voted for him. This recall demonstrates the selfishness of the Democratic Party that either gets their way or they take their ball and go home complaining the entire time. Much the same as we see in Washington with the endless blame and excuses from Democrats.
"Just 27% said recall elections are appropriate for any reason"
When barely 1 in 4 people support recall elections for ANY REASON, the clear loser is the American public that has to witness the pathetic spectacle being instigated by the whining politicians pushing for it.
Okay, by the time I get to post this, the Walker recall results will already have been analyzed into a million pieces. Did I see over 3000 comments already on the earlier thread? Seems like nothing much left to say, but since that's never stopped anyone else.....I don't even have to read half those comments to know what they say. Depending on your point of view, it was a stunning defeat, a moral victory, a sobering lesson in the ability of outside money to buy elections, democracy at its finest, democracy at its worst, the end of the Obama era, just the beginning, etc., etc., etc.
Well, that's just here in Political Junkie Land. As the last soul on earth who doesn't have cable tv and who refuses to sit in front of a computer all night after sitting at one all day, I had to get the news from the local tv stations. No "breaking news" announcements, no teasers, just the same news as every other night. I watched both the FOX affiliate's hour-long broadcast at 10:00 and the ABC one at 11:00. The lead stories on both were jury selection in the Jerry Sandusky trial, jury deliberations in the local Catholic priest abuse trial, and another incident of four Philly cops caught on tape beating an unarmed suspect. When they finally got to the Walker "news", they each gave it about 15 seconds - Wisconsin recall, Walker survived, percentage of vote, oh and by the way, also in political news, Mitt Romney (gasp!) won the New Jersey primary. No analysis, no interviews with local outraged union leaders, just a few seconds of stock video of Walker in a blue shirt. The ABC station gave three times as much time to two local high school graduations, and the FOX station gave at least two full minutes to a shocking investigation into the tragedy of a local tanning salon closing down without notifying its patrons in advance - wow, talk about outrage! - and then spent a good three or four minutes on a feature about their own on-air doctor taping a segment of the Doctor Oz show to be shown later today. Historic elections vs. self-promotion? Hey, a total no-brainer.
My point is, that despite our increasingly nasty and vitriolic exchanges on here professing to speak for what our fellow Americans are passionately interested in, the sad truth is.....they're not. In the world of political punditry and blogs, this may be the biggest story since.....well, the last biggest story.
But out in the real world? It's already yesterday's news. And it couldn't hold a candle to the tanning salon and Doctor Oz.
Yeah I can see why you think that, but the reality is there will be a cascade o consequences.
No just sit back and deal.
So JoAnne - Obama abandoned his troops in Wisc. You think they might remember that come Nov.?
Golly what would Alinsky do? I have no idea, but man is it gonna be fun to find out.
Yeah I can see why you think that, but the reality is there will be a cascade o consequences.
No just sit back and deal.
So JoAnne - Obama abandoned his troops in Wisc. You think they might remember that come Nov.?
Golly what would Alinsky do? I have no idea, but man is it gonna be fun to find out.
Well, yeah, JoAnn- there were over 3000 comments on last night's thread. Funny-none of the tree house kids were represented after the call.
How very odd.
And, to expand on my comments from last night about the problems with exit polls-
They are based on assumptions about the electorate- which impacts The weighting by dictating where the polling is done. Thus, if you believe, (as the exit pollsters did), that union voters would be out in force, and that union voters would break for Barrett, you have more people polling in those precincts. That was one problem, which was proven as the race was "too close to call"- then called, forty five minutes after polls closed.
Second, exit polling organizations have an out other polling organizations do NOT have- they re-weight to the actual raw vote. It is akin to doing math problems, then having the ability to redo them after you get the test back.
Exit polling is only as good as the assumptions of those doing the polling. It has been notoriously bad in the last decade or so- 2000, 2002, and 2004 come to mind. We can now add 2012- and these are different organizations than in the earlier years I mentioned.
Be interesting to se the re-weighted data on Romney vs. Obama in Wisconsin- but I doubt we'll see it. Still, I'd take a second, jaundiced look at the information that came out last night. Looks like republican GOTV has the democratic effort beat- by seven points.
JoAnne, terrific post and so true. I doubt most people even knew there were primaries yesterday because it wasn't in their state or town. Ignore the usual suspects who even when having scored a victory in their eyes, bring doom, gloom and negativity to FR along with normal deflection or daily repeat of the anti-Obama, anti-democrat rants; I find them entertaining but never enlightening.
Well, we had primaries here in New Jersey. Due to redistricting, two well known democrats went head-to-head.
It was a battle of the giants- with Rothman having Obama's support and fundraising, and Pascrell gaining the same from Bill Clinton.
Pascrell won.
Another bad sign for Obama.
Oh-by the way- how many of you liberals are buying Bill Clinton's insistence that his words are being misconstrued? That he may have misspoken? Seriously?
This is a man who has so carefully honed the skill of parsing words, he redefined the word "is"! If Obama's ego is so great that he is swallowing the how line of malarkey, well, what can I say? It just proves how unsuited he is to his chosen career.
JoAnne---the Sandusky story was big on our local news as well. Plus the Pirates are 2 games over 500. Now this might not be big news anywhere else, but after a record-breaking 19 losing seasons, people here in SW Pa. are cautiously excited.
I wish the general public would get more interested in politics---it is so important to all of our lives. But this has probably always been the case. I suspect they will tune in for the conventions (although less so than it used to be) and the debates.
Steeler Fan -
I think David Walker hit the nail on the head up above - our voting process has come down to the crazies vs. the lazies, and the rest of us are sadly outnumbered. Looks like Sandusky will be the big story for at least the next three weeks - well, at least until the FOX station finishes their "ongoing investigation" into the tanning salon scandal, anyway!
Hey, good luck to the Pirates - I had no idea it had been that long. Seems like just yesterday I was down at the ballpark watching the Phils try to compete with the likes of Bill Mazeroski and Roberto Clemente.
Jody - I know what you mean about the same old, same old doom and gloom every day - though if we have to listen to more drivel about exit polls, at least Spanky's little temper tantrum over them with Domenico last night was entertaining - you know, kind of the same way a screaming baby on an airplane for two and a half hours is..... :)
What is funny is the dems in this thread told Joanne nice post and the repubs just started spitting nonsense. Most people outside of WI don't care and this will not cause them to vote one way or another. You guys dont get it most of America is right to work so this decision had no bearing on our lives. Ohio repubs tried it and it was voted down yet I dont remeber any repubs saying anything about it being a referendem on the Nov. election then, but now Walker wins a recall and it spells doom for Obama. Get a life. You idiots were spewing hate on Obamas first day in office and you will spew hate until Jan of 2016 this has nothing to do with policy. He is not a left wing radical. The guy is to the right of Clinton. It is obvious why you hate him, have some nuts and say it.
PS I am independent and any indie that is thinking about voting GOP should come here and read the posts coming out of the repubs, hate filled rhetoric with no place in a civilized society.
Robiscoole You must have blinders on if you think on Republicans on this site are dishing out the insults. The FR regulars do a phenomenal job of it everyday and most are Libs.
Well, it seems that Obama has a solution to the attention the public pays to the unemployment statistics-
He wants to control the media reporting it.
Yup. Labor has announced that any reporter who wants to report the monthly unemployment numbers must do so on site- using BLS computers- subject to BLS editing.
Think that will fly? I hope not. In fact, I hope the media has the good sense to stand up the way they stood up when Obama tried to block Fox from the reporting pool.
They'd better- they have a Constitutionally protected right to report freely.
So, liberals- since you can cheer Obama playing video games withpeople's lives- no matter who those people are- I cannot wait for the justification of this action to control the press.
Have at it- but it won't work.
robiscoole: "It is obvious why you hate him, have some nuts and say it."
Let's see if I can put this in a "nutshell", robiscoole. We have lots of nuts here (and more than a few shells), but most of the nuts don't have the nuts you're looking for.
What can I say? Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't, and most times it's best to just spend your time reading the people who actually have something constructive to say.
P.S. - You think THIS thread is hate-filled rhetoric? You should be here when the subject is immigration or gay marriage or even the First Lady!
Ok, I give, robiscoole what exactly happens in Jan of 2016?
That is when he will leave the Whitehouse. This thing here is just like Kerry before him, Mitt provides nothing but criticism of the incumbent. He has no policy of his own, He only states that the president is wrong. This happened with Kerry in 2004, all talk no substance.
To preempt your rhetoric please list one policy Mitt has put forth.
spdockery -
I suspect that in January 2016, Rick Santorum will once again be in the midst of taking his sweater vests on an up close and personal tour of "every gas station, residence, warehouse, farmhouse, henhouse, outhouse and doghouse" in the state of Iowa. (God, I love Tommy Lee Jones!) Meanwhile, President Obama will be working on his State of the Union speech as usual. That being said, I think robiscoole clearly meant to say January 20, 2017, when he eventually leaves office. Though I kind of doubt the hate will stop even then.....
PS - I see NoJoe 'forgot" to post a source ffor her story again. I suggest this one:
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201205030003
I was just curious on why "if" he wins a second term he will leave 3 years into it.
Inside information?
If the good people of Wisconsin thought this would put a stop to the civil war in their state, a look at the comments from the right wingers on this board will tell them: no such luck. The Walker win has emboldened the crazies and they are not in the mood to be magnanimous.
Thanks Joanne that is what I meant, but I should have caught the mistake after sp's statement. No inside info just a mistake.
JoAnne,
I put Media Matters right up there with Fox. Do you have another source that is less bias? I am not trying to be disrespectful, I really would like to read more on it, without the noise.
There you go robiscoole. Now about your rhetoric comment, not everyone is a left wing or a right wing "nut" although based on the people here you could get that idea.
I don't think Mitt is electable. I will still vote for him because Our President has me straight in his sites for tax increases. My wife and I pay enough taxes in my opinion.
But no rhetoric from me.
thetotas -
I normally try to stay away from Media Matters and HuffPost and Daily Kos myself as sources because I know so many people here think they have a liberal bias. But then, I was just trying to find a source for NoJoe's claim, and that was about the closest thing I could come up with, despite repeated searches. Maybe you should ask her where she came up with that story......
Thank you.
So...um...where are Romney's SOLUTIONS? Does anyone know?
Romney has no core and No Solutions
Well, for me, I choose to be a little less selfish than that and vote based on my view of the impact of policies on everyone, not just myself and the worship of the Money God. Not surpring though, the 'Got mine, screw everyone else' attitude of conservatives still shows itself in posts like these.
But it's not the for the good of everyone, it's targeted against some, and given to others.
If the answer is all Americans pay more taxes (yes for some that actually might mean you have to start), I'd be all for it.
I don't dodge my taxes, and invest in off shore accounts to reduce my liability, I simply earn my money. Exactly how much do you think is enough to take?
It's simply class warfare.
Well, it is true that Scott Walker won the recall election. But it is also true, that there is just no way that he missed the message that he is not "king of the world".
Mr. Walker is going to have to be the governor of ALL the people of Wisconsin, not just the folks who are paying to prop him up.
And THAT is what democracy is about.
Sure, I did not get the outcome I was hoping for, but one thing is for sure, these folks know that they were in a fight. We human people are never going to stop fighting, even as the "corporate people" think we are dumb enough to believe that they have "won" and we don't have a chance.
Based on the huge money discrepancy and the way that corporations control the "narrative" in Wisconsin and the rest of the nation, I'd say that the fact that things are as close as they are is a real good reason to fight harder, not give up.
So to me, the message is this: It's not whether we win or lose, it's how many blows we land. Because sooner or later, we will win . . . it will just take more rounds than we thought.
Onward and upward.
Please do Nash.
Oh and Obama really needs some cash.
Can you spare some for him?
Say Nash, what are your thoughts on the huge money imbalance that occurred in '08?
How many blows you land? How many did you take? You all got knocked out, in the first round last night.
Ouch!
Spanky:
I just love your screen name . . .have a blessed day! :o)
P.S. Letting people control the "narrative" by filling the airwaves with bought and paid for lies is bad. Period.
Good Morning Nash!
I see where SpankMe is crapping on your porch now - what an honor!
Looks like the ambulance chaser got up super extra early to gloat! lmao
Thank goodness he has FR to get his attention deficit fix!
Now, would you care for a nice tall glass of ice-cold red kool-aid? ☺
Forget cash, Spanky. The Obama's really need moving cartons. Do you have any idea how expensive they are? Oh, and bubbly wrap- that stuff costs, too.
Hey there Feisty . . . I would absolutley LOVE some kool-aid . . . and I would like to propose a toast to all the folks in Wisconsin who REFUSED to sit back and accept the edicts passed down from their crony governor without a fight . . . I am PROUD of their amazing effort . . . and they have WON back control of the legislative branch of their government . . . so King Walker is less powerful today than he was yesterday . . . whether the media acknowledges it or not!
CHEERS!
No Nash - watching too much TEEVEE, or letting your decision be influenced by ads, is bad.
Oh and make no mistake Feisty - I did get up extra early, but just because I didn't want to miss Chuck Todd's show.
It wasn't very good. Still citing exit polls they admit were flawed.
I couldn't agree more!
Not to mention, WI is going blue again in November!
SALUDE to my good neighbors to the north!
Fiesty, you won't be so fiesty in NOV.
Nash--thanks for the reminder that the fight is for the long haul. We also see the cost it takes to prop up a guy like Walker. Had to outspend the opposition more than 10 to 1.
I'll have some of Feisty's famous popcorn with my koolaid this morning.
Thanks for stopping by Steeler Fan . . . glad to know you are still on the battlefield . . . and that we're having popcorn! :o)
I keep telling you. The message is that there is no more money for government as it is currently constructed. This includes the wages and benefits of government workers. Harold Ford Jr had it right this morning. Non-government workers (not the 1%) want fairness and they saw it as unfair that government workers were protected 2009-2010 as their jobs and wages were not.
It is starting in Greece as the money has completely run out there. It will go through Italy, Spain and France. And it will come here to the state and federal government.
ROTFL...
But you have some 36 Million Dollars to spend to buy the Wisconsin Governor's office?
This is just another example of the RWNJ hypocrisy that we have all come to know....
Consider the fact that due to aging demographics Medicare as currently structured will require an increase of 100 Billion Dollars every year for the next 10 years. Now pit that against the 36 million one time spending, and 30 million of union money and its still a gnats bite on the unfunded liabilities of government. This is only one Federal program (the biggest I'll admit), but add to that the Medicaid liabilities, including the proposed expansion of ACA and the pension liabilities at state level (where they are still assuming a 7% return on investments).
So go ahead, propose to tax all the earnings and confiscate all the wealth you'll need to meet these liabilities and see if you can get a majority to vote for your plan.
DUH alan....
This is EXACTLY why we need the President's affordable healthcare act that you RWNJ's have fought against tooth and nail - oppose it in spite of the necessity of the act.
You RWNJ's frustrate me to no end with all that assinine partisanship.
If it is good for this nation and her citizens, we should support it - if it harms this nation or the majority of her citizens then - and only then - oppose it.
Do NOT oppose it because it came from a Democrat or a black man.
So...what are Romeye's Solutions? Can you name a specific one? Measuring the drapes....but no solutions....cant wait for the debates this fall. Romney has much to explain (or maybe he just doesnt have anything)
Romney has No Core and No Solutions
Obama/Biden 2012
Romney doesn't like to focus on his time as governor of Massachusetts; the State ranked 47 of 50 on job creation during his governorship. How will this pathological Flip Flop - on this one ?
Liberals seem so "upset" today. I'm sorry.......wait....NO I'M NOT!!! HAHAHAHA!!!
Oooo the wannabe teacher is back.
Aww Ruken are you crying in your beer today???
Should I be? Did you finally get a real teaching position?
You should be and will be again on November 6, 2012
careface.jpg
my my Ruken....you're such a sore loser...lolol
You can't lose if you don't play. I didn't know I was a registered voter and resident of WI.
Of course as a "teacher" you knew that, because you're qualified to teach our posterity.
I'm not going even dignify you with an answer.....Your side lost...get over it.
My side?
Where did you get that degree again?
@ Ruken maybe the same place you got your "sigma cum laude" made up honors. Sorry I couldn't resist......
DownTownJulieBrown is in no way a Badger. I was thinking more along the lines of Devry.
Am I still being too generous? Probably.
Maybe DTJB can "teach" you proper grammar.
Oh wait.
And thanks for proving my point.
Clearly more funding cuts to education are necessary.
And what? You don't? Posting illegible gibberish all morning and afternoon?
Naw, I'll be mowing tomorrow before I go on vacation for a week. It tends to take awhile since I have to mow about four acres.
Today I'll go bicycle riding for about 60 miles after work.
Sounds like you're drawing too much on personal experience.
How can anyone see this as a victory for America? It's a direct result of the Citizens United decision, as more out of state money than anything drove the election results. This is not to say there wasn't recall fatigue and anger from those who voted for Walker, that their vote was being questioned. But when the money disparity was 33 million to 3 million, and Barrett wasn't the nominee until a month ago while being beat up with ads well before getting it- it's pretty hard to dispute that money drove this result.
Those that look at this as a victory for America surely can't be the people with the average American income a bit north of 30K a year, where it's been for 30 years or more, while everything has gone up in price. And if there are those in that bracket who look at it as a victory for them have no right to complain about how they can't make ends meet with what they're being paid now.
Walker is now the poster boy for Citizens United, bought and paid for by Koch and that ilk, and now he has to pay back for their support. Just hope YOUR VOTE isn't the target to be removed from the electorate by secret unnamed moneyed interests who consider corporations more important than citizens.
Yeah, so daveNJ, perhaps you can refresh my recollection.
in 2008, how much money did McCain spent?
How much did Obama spend?
Oh and who, until recently was bragging about a billion dollar campaign? Hint, he's got a terrible comb over, a 'stache, and live in Chicago.
Oh and dude - if you are afraid of commercials, all you gots to do is turn off the TEEVEE.
You can't have it both ways Dave from NJ...
You can't have a candidate running for President that raises more money than his opponent and it be OK but cry about the other guys candidate raising more than yours. Same goes with the Congress. You can't blame 2 years of the House being under Republican control as the reason for a crap economy and ignore 2 years of the House and Senate under Democrat rule during the "collapse" as reason for the "collapse"
That is why the Dem brand has been so stained...you can't have it both ways.
Stand up and be a man.
That's right dave, only Repblicans can have it both ways . . . on the individual mandate, on the war in Afghanistan, on whether deficits matter, and pretty much any other issue.
The GOP has replaced "Country First" with "If Obama is for it, I'm against it".
And they aren't even ashamed enough to try to hide it . . . they are loud and proud about their ignorance and hyporcrisy.
And the media just smiles and regurgitates the meaningless phrase "both sides".
America the beautful indeed.
LOL nashville
That's right...President Obama has been as steady as a rock when it comes to saying one thing and doing another...a rock.
The voters of Wisc kicked the liberal "progressive" party to the curb...Wisc, that blue state. Dems are doomed in November and they have only themselves to blame. You picked the wrong candidate in 2008 and even Party stars (Ole Bill) are going to help Obama lose.
Take a good look in the mirror Nash...it's your fault.
Dear stuffmaker:
I notice you can't refute what I said, so you change the subject to "Obama". . . I bet that tricks works with all your slow friends, huh?
lol
You are the one trying to avoid the subject Nash. Why are all the smart voters not voting for Democrats? How did that party blow such an opportunity when they are so smart? If Democrats are so smart, how can you be losing the hearts and minds of the Country? And how the hell have you blow the economy so badly if you are so smart?
Please help us dumb, slow guys out and explain how you have f*cked it up so bad you lost Wisc...
We are dying the know...
stuffmaker:
You commented on someone else's comment, and instead of addressing the point they made, you want to rant and rave and change the subject.
It is always easier to tear others down than build something yourself.
Enjoy your delusions.
No sweat...
You may want to go back and read my comment. I commented directly to your comment on the $$ raised by Gov. Walker and compared it to the $$ raised by Obama. I stand by that example. I backed it up with the example of how liberals blame conservitives for the "collapse" yet they controlled Congress the entire time but Obama can't "fix" the economy because of Republicans in the House.
If that is too much for you Nash, I understand. Read it over and try and explain it away by talking about the war on terror, which Obama fought just like Bush.
No hard feelings...
Here's what you're missing- undocumented money does not necessarily have to come from AMERICAN sources with Citizens United. We all could be subjected to the interests of China, North Korea, Iran, Saudi Arabia, which obviously would be for their interests, not America's or American citizens! Are you going to tell me that that is OK with you?
I'd agree that huge money on both sides is wrong because they all pander to a constituency other than citizens. But don't tell me there shouldn't be an accounting for both side's contributors to see where the money is coming from. There's no one who would disagree with that. Hell, we can't even get Romney's tax returns because he's so afraid America would see how he used the 'system' to screw all of us. If not he'd release them, right?
But most bozos aren't aware that it's happening on a local level. You don't think those Tea Party people locals never heard of are being nominated without being hand picked by money? C'mon. But it'll be too late if a candidate of your choice is cast aside for someone who doesn't share your concerns.
In response to the 'crappy economy', I'd like to see, as most Americans, a balanced approach to cuts and revenues in getting this economy rolling again. I still can't understand why I have to drive to avoid potholes and decaying roads when there should be repaving projects all over this country. Federal and state money should be spent on doing something like this to benefit citizens. But to dismiss where we came from in 2008 and 2009 and say there haven't been improvements is ridiculous. The collapse happened under Bush, not directly from Bush, but created by Wall Street derivative trading by Bush's secretary Henry Paulson's friends. That's a fact.
We all wish that there was a better response from congress and the President to enhance the economy. But it's hard to say with a straight face that congress has done anything constructive when the Majority leader and Senate minority leader said job number one was to make the President a one termer. That does not better the country in any way and they should be held to full account for it!
Great post, Dave. How very sad that the right isn't able to see the difference between unlimited spending by the 1% as well as others who can remain anonymous. We're seeing the Citizens United decision in action and it is not a pretty sight. Some legacy for Chief Justice Roberts.
Nash
The Clinton White House was for sale for 8 years. Remember the issue with Gore and the Chinese donors? The Lincon Bedroom crap? Money in politics is not new or going away. Last night the MAJORITY of voters in Wisc had their minds made up MONTHS before the vote...had nothing to do with the $$. Obama got more $$ from BP than any candidate in 2008 and raised far more money than McCain. Where you upset about that? I wasn't. Do you know why? Because American voters wanted something different and they contributed to his cause. Same thing is now moving against him because he is proving what we knew all along...he is not qualified to run this Country.
I am pretty sure Romney released his tax returns back in March...
stuffmaker:
You really are a one trick pony . . . "Obama", "Clinton", "Lincoln Bedroom" . . . none of these justifies the unjustifiable. Our government has been sold to the highest bidder. Congress is bought and paid for. The Supreme Court is bought and paid for. And you wanna talk about a sleep over at the White House.
Can't see the forest for the trees.
One of my favorite quotes is this:
You wanna talk about individual men when the entire system is the problem.
Nash
I am not a "one trick pony". Please direct me to the time that $$ did not influence politics in the United States as I can't put my finger on it. From the 1700's to today, candidates were given money by donors to gain influence with the candidate should they win. That is nothing new and to deny it is simply a lie. The one trick pony is you who refused to admit that Obama is nothing more than a bank account that clearly you had no problem with.
American voters get all the info they want from countless sources...or as you want us to think, Only from Fox News. Democrats are the only "smart" ones who look at multiple news sites...LOL
The $$ contributions pay for ads and huge staffs that try and spread that candidates word...nothing new or "republican" about that.
Face it Nash...you picking Obama has been a disaster for the Democrats. Who would have believed in 2008 they could screw up this badly this quickly. Even I didn't see that one coming...
stuffmaker:
You cannot tell me that the framers of the Constitution would agree that corporations are people, and that them giving money to things is equivalent to free speech.
That is complete, unvarnished bull#$@.
And you know it.
So you talk about bedrooms.
You are grabbing straws now dude...the framers
of the Constitution owned black humans and refused to allow women to own land or
vote...LOL
To even suggest they, and their racist wig
wearing friends, should be used as some sort of measure for campaign donations
in 2012 is very sad. I don’t believe the “framers” have a dog in this fight... It is liberals like you that run back to Thomas Jefferson, who raped
his slaves for sport, whenever you can’t respond to a question. I like reading
about Thomas Jefferson and other Founding Fathers....they were really brave
men. That said, they lived in a very different America and to try and prop
their very dead, old bones up for your failed political argument is a bad
joke....please try again.
You are the one stuck on the “bedroom” because
you have no answer to my charges and that is fine....keep on keeping on. Obama is a failure, last nights election is a serious blow to the
Democrats and his chance of re-election. The American voter CAN’T WAIT to vote
in November and from North Carolina to Wisconsin they are sending a very clear
message about the “Progressive” movement.
stuffmaker:
So, the Constitution is not the law of the land because you say so?
'Nuff said.
I apologize for wasting my time. I know better.
stuffmaker-
So what exactly did Obama "screw up so badly"?
The Economy? No, it is improving, albeit slowly. Jobs are being added, home prices are up, GDP is up, the stock market has mostly recovered. GM and Chrysler were saved from bankruptcy, and millions of jobs were saved.
Foreign Policy? No, Osama Bin Laden is dead. The Iraq War is over and the War in Afghanistan is winding down. Relations with our allies and our standing in the world has improved (ask the British PM).
I apologize if things aren't getting better fast enough for you, but to say Obama screwed anything up is factually incorrect.
And if you think the election last night in Wisconsin had anything to do with the election in November, you are sadly mistaken.
Nash
The Constitution is the law of the Land. I never denied that. You denied that when our Supreme Court said Corporations can donate money, just like the Unions, and you called it a crime. The Constitution is the Law for liberals unless it goes against their belief...then it's bad.
Voters voted and the "Progressives" lost. Enough said...
TNSEVOL
Obama and the Democrats, who have had control of Congress since Jan 2007, HAVE screwed this economy. GM is owned by the US Government. Just wait, they will be back begging for more because they build a crap product and can't pay their pensions. They will burn through their 17 Billion dollar "gift" soon enough and be right back to where they were 3 years ago...broke.
Obama was doing the job he was elected to do by giving the go ahead to kill Bin Laden. Bush would have done it, Gore would have done it, my 85 year old neighbor would have done it. Good job Obama!
We would still be in Iraq if the Iraq Government would have agreed to immunity for the US military. The withdrawl time line followed by the President was put in place by GW Bush in 2008. Obama did nothing to make that happen...please try again. Oh, and how many have died in Afghanistan since Obama's "surge"? How come you don't want to see the bodies on the news everynight now? You wanted to see them when Bush was President? Change of heart?
If you DON'T think the election in Wisc will have an impact in November you are simply in denial.
Paulson gave TARP millions of money to banks and foreign investors without any strings attached and no accountability or payback schedules of any kind. He even tried to push through congress a document absolving himself- this is Bush's Secretary of Treasury mind you- of any wrongdoing in giving out these millions still unaccounted for, which was firmly rejected by congress. Did you forget about that? Polls taken show Americans have not!
To compare the auto industry where parameters and restrictions were definitely set, where a CEO at GM was forced out before any backing by the government was handed out, to compare that with the giveaways that will never be paid back is a ludicrous jackass comparison. How many American jobs were saved on Wall Street at Merrill Lynch versus in Detroit with GM and Chrysler? Incomparable!
Jobs were added in Detroit and only unearned bonuses were handed out with the "us first"culture on Wall Street. Here's the thing: people will long remember what a disaster those Bush years were and if they're smart they'll continue to put the blame where it belongs- in the laps of Bush and Cheney. We will not forget where we've been, and where we are now! Again- incomparable!!
thestuffmaker25 - you apparently don't realize that the Democrats had a filibuster proof majority for a scant 7 months - during which time Ted Kennedy was ill (so he missed votes) and there were a few recesses. During that time our President made the mistake of trying to work with the GOP to get things done - not knowing they had pledged - from day one of his Presidency - to block everything he tried to do in order to make him a one-term President. Those are the facts.
Obama/Biden - 2012
Seeking
Don't forget the other fact that Democrats had control of both houses of Congress from Jan 2007 until Jan 2011. You can't have it both ways. They were in control before, during and after the collapse.
Just saying...
Spin, spin, spin....
Do the RWNJ's ever get dizzy????
Oh - thats right:
they STAY dizzy!!!
NJDave,
Not sure where you saw me compare TARP with GM...I must have missed that. Seems to me that most of that TARP $$ has been paid back. In fact, the Obama adminstration touted it as a success and possibly a profit. Did that one slip by you Dave?
The GM bailout, that Bush started, was doomed to fail and it will. I didn't support Bush doing it and I didn't support Obama doing it. You can scream until you are blue...it will never work and the best thing would have been to let smarter people build better cars from the heap of crap left by GM and the Unions.
Not as Stupid- I guess not. They're still trying to sell the stupid idea the collapse happened on Obama's watch, except there's a problem with that- it happened on Bush's watch, just like 9/11. The Bush years are the staple to which every other presidency (except the GOP's own Nixon) will be judged for incompetency. It is the reason this recovery is so slow to move. People are still shell shocked about what happened in 2008 (Obama took office in January, 2009) with the collapse on Wall Street and housing markets, and are still hesitant to make any investments to this day. They have also used the collapse as an excuse to move American jobs overseas forever, and cynically refuse to add jobs to remove the president so we can go back to those wonderful Bush-Cheney years!
Anyone who believes TARP money has been paid back is nothing short of delusional Faux News watchers. Time for a walk outside for some fresh air Stuffy!
That's the facts, Jack!
It's also a fact NJdave that Democrats controlled both houses of Congress before, during and after the "collapse" you so want to blame on Bush.
Or is that just another fact you like to leave out?
So you can't refute anything I've written here, is what I'm getting from you, Hannity?
Something funny about any final legislation having to be signed by that Bush guy, huh?
WOW NJDave
I thought you were bright right up to that last comment. I have refuted everything you wrote...TARP to GM to Economy. You must just not like what I had to say...that's OK.
And just for future reference, I don't watch Fox or Hannity and I am in fact commenting on your comments on MSNBC...in case you failed to notice.
Disagree:
Looks to me like you have only parroted the usual RNC-TEA "expainations", spin, talking points and excuses we have heard (and refuted/dismissed) forever.
That garbage sure gets old... don't you guys ever get tired of the lies, inaccuracies and half-truths?
Well the voters sure do....
Not as stupid
"Well the voters sure do..."
You mean like the ones last night that voted, again, for a Republican Gov in a Blue State?
Naw stuff...
I mean the ones who will re-elect the President in November instead of voting for your flip-flopping Norquist pledger.
You know...
the ones who are fed up with the greedy 1% taking more and more of our dollars and have decided to do something about it.
Romney the Anchor baby looter is Flip Flopping in bed with the greedy 1% !!!
The GOP States are red from all the bloody wars they started !!!
What a Blowout!!!!
Nice to see MSNBC putting their spin on the news once again, instead of just reporting it.
72 counties in WI...60 were won by Walker. Blowout!!!!!
Yet the % was only 53-46? Welcome to urban vs. rural politics.
Funny how exit polling showed Barrett ahead......guess that didn't work out so well...
Only in the county of Milwaukee perhaps, but as far as I heard it was never even close.
Don't trust that exit poll showing Obama ahead of Romney either. People lie to the media about these things just for fun. I mean who would vote for Walker now and then Obama in November? It doesn't make sense. Also there were about 1/3 of union households that voted for Walker.Could that have been cops and firefighters? They are exempt from all these cuts. Walker took care of them. It's a pattern being repeated in San Diego. You'll see it again and again. But oh yeah. As a group, they tend to vote Republican. It's been so easy to divide and conquer.
No deep spin cycle can clean this mess up...this is bad for labor unions, Democrats and Obama. There is a tidal wave of money moving toward the firing of President Obama. Much of it was money that helped get him the job to start with. He has been a abject failure and the American voter is going to make the Democrats pay in November.
Spin all you want...
except that exit polls showed Wisconsin will re-elect President Obama. Guess they just like incumbents.
Amy...those were the same exit polls that showed the recall race was neck and neck. I don't think I would put much stock in "those exit polls".
Just saying...
So you really think Walker's win is an indicator of how the November election will turn out, even though the Dems gained state senate seats?
Keep gloating, it is a long way to November. There are a lot of people not paying that much attention to Romney right now - I for one don't think they will like what they see.
tnsevol
Right now they have gained nothing. There was one out of the four that has not been decided...they lost the other 3 and the recall so I don't see any real positive for the Dems last night...sorry.
You may be right about Romney though I suspect the same for the President. This time he has a record to run on and it's not very good. American's see this and will choose who they think can make the economy go. No matter how much you kick and scream, Dems and Obama have proven they can't make it go...or even understand how it works. Romney will win on that note. There is no "race" for the republican vote and there is no "race" for the democrat vote. The race is for the independent who carried Obama in 2008. I know a lot of them...I am a registered one myself. NONE of them, that I know, are leaning toward Obama for 2012 and I think that will be the real factor in November. So yes, I do think last nights election has implications for November.
You RWNJ's keep spewing this lie, and I have to keep on correcting you with the truth:
President Obama is NOT a failure.... Dumby Bush/Cheney was the failure!
It was Bush who took President Clinton's balanced federal budget with surplus and gave it all to his weathy family, friends and supporters causing America to suffer the worst economic disaster since the crash of 1928 - MAJOR FAILURE!!!
President Obama is cleaning that mess up - success.
Please try to get the facts correct and stop looking like a lie spouting idiot....
Thanks.
Let's see how that BS works in November.
Then we will see who is as stupid as they look...
You got it!
thestuffmaker,
You are a registered independent? How does that work? Who do you register with to get this status?
Do you get a card that you carry in your wallet?
North
In the state of North Carolina it is a political party that you can register with when you sign up to vote...been so long ago I don't really know who you do it with though there is a voter registration card you fill out. Primaries in NC are closed...only Dems can vote in Dem primary and the same for Republicans. Independents can vote in both.
North
It's unafilliated that you can register as in North Carolina...not independent, though it's the same thing. There are 1.5 million of us registered in North Carolina.
he he he he the demarats and 0bamas end continues ps THANKS BILL CLINTON
I hope Billy keeps on talking...he's so good - FOR THE GOP!! lol
the best thing that happened in wisconsin was a large voter turn out. maybe, like many european countries, the law should dictate that everyone must vote.
although, i am disappointed in the outcome of the govenors race, i am very proud of the high voting percentage.
if dems hold on to senate victory, that will be a victory in itself.
To me it looks like the vote was a slap to government employee unions, not to organized labor in general. A lot of people have concerns about just why government employees need to be unionized. Certainly employees working for private companies needed and still need to be protected from abusive and dangerous employment conditions (there are stiill sweatshops in many parts of the world), but I just have difficulty perceiving the same risks for government employees as for employees in the private sector. And of course, many people actually want smaller government, whereas the function of government employee unions seems to be to increase government payrolls at a time when government spending is consuming an ever increasing portion of our economy. Maybe the government employee unions need to go back and reexamine just what they are trying to accomplish.
? whats the difference public or private? unions are there to protect both phyisically and financially.
how can one discriminate? it is unions that make the boat float, when they achieve everyone achieves.
and, exactly what is small government? no parks, no law enforcement, no public lands, no public schools, no fire protection, no infastructure R&R, no public health care, no medicare, no social security, no EPA?
that is the definition the republicans want to see.
government is smaller as far as employees, but government must remain the referee, the enforcerer, the last voice, or we no longer have a country of the people and for the people, but we only exist as the servants of the very few.
so there goal is not smaller government, but a larger more forceful government which will protect the wealthiest and force the rest into submission or death.
that is history and it will repeat its self over and over until the masses shout out that enogh is enough!
the wealthy have hated the unions from the first minute of their existance, because they had to share more profits with them. so, the public unions are the first to be destroyed but it is the private unions who they wish to destroy so everyone earns minimum wage with no benefits and when they can no longer work they will die sooner and deminish the surplus population.
i could go on and on, but this chapter of history must play out, so all the people will realize what must be done.
Recovering Democrat,
Thank you for your post. I am one of the "lower middle class" who are rapidly dropping in to the "upper poor" class in part because my tax dollars are going to pay for ridiculous benefit packages for public sector workers.
The title of this article is quite funny. It SHOULD read, Walker wins and Unions lose. Labor didn't lose a thing. In fact the MAJORITY of labor scored a victory last night. The 85% of labor in Wisconsin that is not in a Union will have to pay less because they will not be funding 100% of Union members pensions/401k's.
It is funny how the left keeps wanting to invoke the 1% and the 99%, but a real statistic is that only about 11% of labor in the US is unionized. If they get angry that the other 89% of labor doesn't want to pay for their pension and 401k, then tough.
When liberals win on a vote, it is because the voters recognize the moral and intellectual superiority of their position. When a liberal cause raises more money it is because others want to support the cause of justice. When liberals lose, its because the election has been bought by outside money, the Kochs, student voter disenfanchisement, conspiracies to destroy the middle class and lies that the voters are too stupid to recognize. How about this idea. The voters of Wisconsin are good and decent citizens who have had a lot of time to consider the issues involved in this election and voted for what they believed was in the best interests the state and probably don't give a damn about what the Koch brothers think about anything. Stop whinning like a bunch of babies. You lost this one and thats all there is to it.
So the lynch mob failed.
Mmmmm not yet jerryb....
I understand that Walker is STILL the target of a criminal investigation for his corrrutption.
It's interesting to see the spin msnbc is trying to put on this devastating blow the left took last night. Trust me, the GOP landslide of 2010 will look small compared to what's in store for us this fall.
153 more days to go....to election day......
228 more days to go...when President Mitt Romney is inaugurated.
http://www.7is7.com/otto/countdsamp.html
And you think that is good why? I know you hate Obama but Romney is Bush. Bush is Romney. If you loved Bush and thought he was great you'll love Romney. Same blue blood pedigree, same private boys school education, same governor experience, same business background, same failed policies, same failed advisers. What did you like so much about Bush? I find it odd that people vote to take away their own rights. It makes me wonder how stupid people really are that they think they benefited themselves by voting to take away their own rights? The people of Wisconsin cut their own noses off to spite their face. They really showed us who's boss. I get it. The people who actually have to work for a living have no say in their employment and don't even deserve the right to negotiate with their employers. The people of Wisconsin voted and they told the middle class to sit down and shut-up. Do as you are told and if you don't like it you walk right into you employers office and you individually negotiate your benefits, lol, and your pay raise,lol and then when your fired I will laugh at how ironic it was that the people actually voted to take away rights of citizens! Now when your overlord tells you that you have to take a pay cut and work twice as many hours and your vacation time is stripped and the safety devices, who needs them they cost your employer too much and retirement you don't deserve one with your sense of entitlement.
i do not agree labor loss, in the contrary, labor won great support, just not enough. the labor growth movement is just starting to explode, the voters just need time to realize the mistake they have made with walker and the republican party.
and, i hope the supreme court will recognize what an error they have made in election funding, which has given corporations the right to rule.
You must have meant implode. Labor has been shrinking for forty years. That happens when you suck to much out of the feed trough. The food eventually runs out. You have forgotten about the people and only remember how to fill your own pockets..It appears the people have not forgotten about you and have put you in your place as servants of the people not the other way around. Greed runs all things into the ground. Labor used to be for the workers now it is for Communists and Socialists. That is not what we the people are about. We are free and we can think and we can reason and we have put you in your place. If you learn your lesson you will survive if not you decide your own fate.
Really? You think labor is shrinking because they take too much from society? Have you looked at CEO pay recently? Under the guise that they are "job creators" they get collectively $100,000,000,000s annually and they have not produced even one net new job in over a decade. Why keep paying such a high price to these failures? If you do have such vengeance against unions surely you see the rip-off of society that the fat cats pull every day?
"Just 27% said recall elections are appropriate for any reason"
How long have Democrats been forcing this recall? A year?
What better way to highlight how hopelessly out of touch they are... all that time and money wasted and barely a quarter of people even believe in the premise of their actions, just pathetic.
Labor didn't lose and Walker didn't win. The people of the US of A WON. Walker has done an outstanding job and will continue to do the right thing. To all those on MSNBC, NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN you guys s u c k!!!
The labor cause is starting to explode alright. Besides Wisconsin it exploded in both San Diego and San Jose last night in very liberal, high tax California where ridiculous public employee pension programs got eliminated. You can still see the flames and the union leaders running like scalded dogs. A beautiful sight here in San Diego.
KR - this difference between public sector unions and private sector unions is that my tax dollars pay for outrageous public sector benefit packages.
If i don't like the price of a product produced by a private sector union, i can make my displeasure known by buying another product or heaven forbid, an imported product.
If i don't like how the public sector is run, i have virtually no chance to make changes because even if i vote for a law that asks the public sector union members to pay into more into their benefits, the courts say it's not legal. Therefore, people like me (and obviously the voters in Wisconsin) have to use the only thing we can do - break the unions to get them to realize that the people who pay their salaries are FED UP SUPPORTING THEIR RETIREMENT!
Love the corporate media headline. Doesn't tell the whole story, however. The Dems took the WI senate back, without a senate Scott can forget a right to work for less bill. And as far as the power of labor goes they've stopped bills in N.H, Minn and Ohio the corporate media quickly forgets those. Let the right in WI have their ALEC sponsored gov. Just keep him in WI where he belongs. I got tired of him going around the country panhandling for his corporate masters money.
Don't get too excited, senate is out of session until January. November elections could move the senate back to republican control. And the way the tide is going, that's likely to happen. Also, Lehman the draft dodger's district was redrawn, but the election was in the old district. He's not representing his new district, which is much more conservative. He'll have no effect.
I hate to burst your bubble, but the Wisconsin state senate is in recess until after the elections in November, at which time, given the redistricting done this past year, it's likely that the state senate will again belong to the Republicans. Take comfort in whatever you like, but be aware of the limitations of that comfort.
I don't think the problem has been with regular labor unions just with Government worker unions. Servants of the people should not be able to dictate to the people. We will see if Walker will be effective. Up to this point he has. You Socialists may have to file for another recall election to spend all your money on.
Tea Party or Koch Brothers on in the same!!!
I suppose Soros and his 400 million dollars compared to Koch and there 10 million shouldn't matter to you all....
Sounds just like your typical leftist. Angry, child-like, vengeful, impulsive. Too bad for them. The people didn't take the bait this time around.