Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Great handle name and statement. As my handle says I am the father of a marine who wants to see him marry his partner so for one thing the military benefits are conveyed to his husband and their boy, my grandson.

I think my grandson deserves two parents who have the opportunity to publicly commit to one another and be protected by the law and all the federal benefits marriage provides.

So sad that the religious right (and by proxy the conservative political right) don't have anything better to do than worry about what everyone else is doing, who they're loving and whether or not it meets their standards of morality, which they feel is their god given right to impose on the rest of the world.

Nice to see Obama step up.

As my handle says I am the father of a marine who wants to see him marry his partner so for one thing the military benefits are conveyed to his husband and their boy, my grandson.

Marine-Pa,

You are a terrific & supportive father!

Thank you for sharing your story & keep the faith!

Change always takes time & thank goodness we are at least making 'baby' steps in the right direction!

I wish you son, his partner & your grandson all the best...

So liberal.....So progressive......

a mother and a father are essential for a balanced child. they need the love of a great mom and the love of a strong dad and the lack of either has put us where we are today. broken homes, single mom and single dads just dont get it done. the idea of two women or two men being the same as two real parents is ridiculous and doomed to follow the path we are on. you guys shouldnt be the victims of hate, but you cant say you are equal as parents. you can say things like that but, it doesnt make it right.

So liberal.....So progressive......

So PROUD!

Here is my story I posted this as my first post when President Obama said he was in support of gay marriage. Sorry if any have read it before:

My story started where many of you were, gay people were foreign to me, "they" were nothing I knew and I considered them abhorrent and sick. What an arrogant fool I turned out to be.

My son is a marine he is in his late 20s and 4 months ago told me he was gay, that rocked my world that threw me for a six and my wife smiled and took it all in. I struggled prayed cursed yelled and all I looked like was the world's biggest ass.

I then got to meet his partner and my grandson, I lived in a world that prevented my own son feeling like I could meet his son. Like the President I evolved on the issue unlike him I had to do it rather quickly. My son and his partner are good men who are raising a wonderful little boy. My boy's partner works hard looks after my grandson and managed catch more fish than me (I am yet to forgive him for that) and fixed my truck (again showed me up, but I forgave him for that). Most of all the guy is respectful to me, my wife and my son.

Now I want you who are against gay marriage to tell me why my son should not be allowed to marry his partner why his partner and my grandson should not be allowed the benefits and privileges that go with my son being a marine. My son fights for you yet you wont fight for him.

I was an ignorant fool like some of you but I had my eyes opened, yes gay marriage will effect me and my family, it will extend our family.

nativesocalX

Research show two parents are great for a child and no advantage or disadvantage was observed if the parents were same sex or opposite sex. This study was conducted over a 17 year period.

nativesocalX,

I would suggest you read Marine-Pa's beautifully written comment above.

Until you have walked in those shoes, take your bigotry else where...

Then get back to us...

Thank you again Marine-Pa for your candid & heartfelt thoughts!

I wonder, is Obama still focusing like a laser beam on the economy?

You bet he is, and equality rights, and foreign affairs, along with a myriad of other presidential issues, all in spite of conservative opposition to ensure he fails, at the expense of American citizens.

You bet he is, and equality rights, and foreign affairs, along with a myriad of other presidential issues, all in spite of conservative opposition to ensure he fails, at the expense of American citizens.

Red,

Isn't it refreshing to have a President who can actually multi-task?

Let me know when a Man and a Man can make a Baby without a woman to carry the baby for them, or a Woman and a Woman can make a baby without a man donating sperm, then you can say "homosexuality" is "natural" and should be "accepted".

Until then, why don't you save all of us your "Social Engineering" , "Political Correctness" B.S.

You want to call me a "Homophobe", "Religious Zealot", "Bigot" or whatever derogatory term you can think of to make yourself feel better go right on ahead. Its not going to change a thing.

People will be P.C. in public, They will tolerate it because they are forced to, but in their own minds, they will never accept homosexuality, because it is not natural, and you simply turned them into cowards.

You can tell yourself "We Won" and what a great victory. The problem is the people didn't accept it it was forced on them. When you have to "Manufacture consent" its no victory.

When 53% of those polled say they support Gay Marriage and yet at the Voting booths they vote for Prohibitions against gay marriage, hence 38 states with Gay Marriage Prohibitions, its an obvious sign your winning the P.C. Language War, but your actually losing the War.

P.S. Hows that Not using the Word "Illegal", to refer to "Illegal" Immigrants, who are here "Illegally", because they entered the Country "Illegally", which is why they are called "Illegal Immigrants" working out for you?

Are they still here Illegally?

David Noah

Good I get to ask you again, so then an infertile married straight couple is not married then. OR for that matter my wife and I she is too old to have any more children. Married straight couples who adopt or have IVF because they can not conceive naturally.

Your theories have so many holes I could drive a John Deer tractor though them.

So tell us why you are so against this. You have come up with some odd theories but nothing on why you personally are against this?

High rolla

You are out of line and for one thing, marriage is about commitment when was it about sex ;).

I've looked up the research and the children are as well adjusted as those in straight families.

nativesocalX - idea of two women or two men being the same as two real parents is ridiculous

As ridiculous as the notion that a dick or a vagina determines what 'two real parents' are? Unfortunately your 'idea' is merely that, an idea of gigantic prejudice proportions. If you could look past your own crotch you might find that parenting has little to do with what's between your own legs and more with what's between your ears (or lack of a serious problem indeed).

Feisty -

I normally do not agree with you about much of anything, but in this case, I have to agree with you - every child does deserve two loving parents, gender not an issue in that.

I also agree with you on the post from Marine PA - beautifully said.

Much respect to you, Marine.

How can anyone say that the love of two parents - regardless of their sex - can be bad for a child? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Just because a child has a Mother and a Father doesn't mean they are being raised in a happy, healthy home. I would rather see a child in a home where there is love.

Well Rightwingwac

Not to make to much of a point but you yourself are guilty of the same.

So perhaps we could all talk about the issue at hand other than how good we are at calling each other names, because you are not doing the Republican party any favors either, of course assuming that is who you support.

Wow, John...don't have much of a life? What is this, kindergarten that you have to be first?

Let me answer the question about who gets paid to post on Newsvine, even though I am a little tired of repeating this.

Everyone does! Yes, John, even a piece of work like you gets paid when you post on Newsvine. Go to your black toolbar and click on earnings.

I know I maybe being naive but should you not be discussing the issue rather than arguing like kids?

Feisty,

Isn't it refreshing to have a President who can actually multi-task?

Some of the conservative bigots on this site might be able to multi-task as well, but it seems they are preoccupied with 'poking dookie shoots'. I have to admit, that did give me a 'decentousy' chuckle, I thought I'd heard it all.

John,

I quite surprised that you, after being a member for 1½ years on Newsvine, didn’t know that all members are paid.

On the “Black Menu bar” click the “Earnings” tab. You will need to re-enter your pass word.

@Marines - that was a great personal story. Thanks for sharing. I always feel the anxiety parents must experience when their child comes out - especially after reading the amount of hate towards gays from the extreme bigots openly displayed on sites like this. It must make you uncomfortable, if not fearful, to realize what your child, his partner, and their child faces at every turn in their daily lives. Fortunately, more and more people have become or are already tolerant, and those numbers far outweigh the cretins of hate and intolerance.

Cretin: A Person that is: brainless, stupid, child-like, and full of pointless information that makes no sense and appeals only to other cretins. They can be found in abundance in every single populated internet forum, where they race to post as many mind-numbing messages as possible in a single session. In addition, they seemingly interbreed with other cretins, ensuring that their cretinous genes continue long after they end up dead meaning the Internet will never be rid of their kind. More's the pity. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cretin

Marines-PA: Thank you for sharing your story. I wonder if you might not reach someone reading it and they might have a change of heart. Equality is coming, even though it still seems so far away.

Oh dear - the little bigot birds are super angry this evening... lol

RedDevPS newdayDAWNING...RETURNED

That's what I am hoping, I thought EXACTLY like some people on here, the distrust the misplaced disgust. If i can change one person's mind then I'm happy.

So I can tell you it is founded on the unknown. What clicked was I live in a house for 18 years with someone who was gay and I didn't know. That was the key I had no idea. He played football, he rowed, tipped a cow or two and joined the marines. I bought into the stereotypes and well I got fooled by the defense of marriage groups. Not any longer.

My boy is a good well adjusted boy, he had been with his partner for 7 years and because of comments i made in the past about gay people my son did not feel comfortable telling me about him let alone about the person he loves. I asked for forgiveness and it was given, no question.

I would hope some of these people who don't understand would change their mind after an afternoon of chatting over a beer with him.

John - You have quite a list there of Feisty's posts. Are you stalking her? Why don't you also compare her positive votes to yours. Get over it!

Oh dear - the little bigot birds are super angry this evening... lol

Are they ever in any other mood? No matter what is done to create equal rights for all Americans, they will cry foul, stomp their feet and throw tantrums like the immature people they are.

I hope you've had a great day my dear friend Feisty and that tomorrow will bring you more of the same.

Dennis, are you seriously telling me I'm getting paid to do this? Dude, no way.

Feisty - Glad you're still at it. Crazy stuff tonight. Can't wait for the debates - perhaps we can put some of this nonsense to rest when Obama wipes the floor with Romney.

So Marine, according to your personal story you were 100% against gay marriage until it involved your son? So be it and now your embrace it and that's fine and your right. So why can't half the country that don't approve it be singled out and be called names? But it's funny that Obama, again, punted the issue about gay marriage and saying it's a State issue although he supports it. If he really felt strongly about this issue, he would do something on the Federal level. It's unlike Obama to leave anything at the State level and a good example is Boeing, so what Obama did was pleased the Liberals and left it at that. So more importantly is that Obama needs to talk about the economy.

I hope well for you and your family and the safety of your Marine son.

Oh dear - the little bigot birds are super angry this evening... lol

Yes they are, and I am still rolling on the floor over the post from high rolla - the best and most 'embrasing' hooked on phonics example I have seen from someone over the age of 8. It's all 'geese talk' I tell ya.

Krestov: Your story is important, and I am so glad that you shared it here today. I always am mindful of the people that read and don't post. You never know if there is a heart that you changed.

But, mostly I am glad for your family, that you worked this out. Family is important, and no family looks like any other. It is a huge act of courage to ask for forgiveness, and a huge act of humbleness to accept that apology.

You have raised a fine son.

I think the story of this marine and his family is both poignant and important. It shows that this intolerance can even hurt the strongest among us. The fact is, America's Armed Forces remember which party booed a serving U.S. soldier at a primary debate last year. And they remember that NONE of the candidates stood up in his defense.

We hold these truths to be self-evident that we are all created equal -

equality under the law.

Toasty:

The fact is, America's Armed Forces remember which party booed a serving U.S. soldier at a primary debate last year.

Was it perhaps the DNC mouth piece Move On, who paid for a full page ad in the NY Times calling one our most successful and decorated officers, General Petus, "General Betray Us". Or is it the party that is trying to eliminate the current military retirement program with a 401 type program that will kick in at age 65 instead of immediately after 20 years of military service?

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuqFkbLkST4

When a man and a man or a women and a woman can conceive together then it will make a family stronger. Obama is going way out there to get votes and more votes because he has a true challenge with failing at creating jobs. but it will backfire. I don't hold and malice towards the gay community but it just does not strengthen a family, it make work but not at this portrayal at the end of the day.......

"We have never gone wrong when we expanded rights and responsibilities to everybody," he said. "That doesn't weaken families, it strengthens families."

How many "same sex marriage" partners have went to the hospital to have a baby ?

Extending "rights" ? Yeah, Mr. Obama....same old Progressive/Liberal story.

And the deflections from Mr. Obama's FAILED agenda continues until the last vote is counted. No wonder folks are marching on Mr. Obama's campaign headquarters in Cheeeecaaaago.

End of story.....

"have went to the hospital"..good grammar.

So, if couples cannot conceive a child, they should not be able to marry?

That would rule out those with infertility issues, the elderly, is that what you want?

Obama is wrong as usual. How can gay marriages strengthen families? EVERY gay marriage will be a blended family if kids are brought into the scenario. A third party will ALWAYS be involved. This is not what marriage is all about. It's not intended to be this way.

Sorry newday, I worked all day, mispelled a few things. You can't put words in my mouth. Just stated my opinion which I am sure the crowd will tear up. Enjoy on me, I still stay with what I wrote. Good night.........

So Ido, are you saying it should be illegal for women who have gone through menopause to get married, since you believe that the purpose of marriage is to have babies?

JoAnn - Who is the 3rd party that will ALWAYS be involved? Why in the world do you think that just because a husband (man) and wife (woman) are involved that life will be perfect for a child? What is wrong with a loving family, regardless of who the parents are? NOTHING guarantees a happy life. Have your read some of the horror stories about what heterosexual couples do to their children and to each other?. I just don't understand why you think that gay marriage affects you in any way. How does it personally affect you - and please don't quote the bible or give me any family values crap - HOW DOES IT PERSONALLY AFFECT YOUR LIFE?

KimH, where did I say that it will personally affect me? Show me please where I said that?

I asked for forgiveness and it was given, no question.

@Krestov - not much to forgive, for you gave that kid of yours your best attributes and that alone speaks volumes. Cheers and bless the both of you.

Marriage isn't about having kids. It's about 2 people loving and being committed to each other. My husband and I got married without any desire to have children together. Were we wrong to do so?

And as for gays not being able to have families naturally, should they wish to, well neither can many many straight couples. Maybe you'd like to require that all folks prove they are capable of reproducing and intend to do so before you issue a marriage license?

Freedom is a good thing. Equality is a good thing. They are what make America great.

Bigotry and hatred? Go live somewhere else. Maybe a nice Middle Eastern dictatorship with Sharia Law. You'll like it! Their beliefs are much closer to the Religious Right than you might realize.

Fiesty,

First off I will say that I support gay and lesbian civil unions and marriage. I will also support a gay or lesbian married couple adopting children.

For someone like yourself to call every one who disagrees with you a bigot or closed minded is in itself closed minded and based on bigotry.

I do not know when would be a good time to address this issue, actually I will once again agree that it should not be an issue. Both sides need to live and let live on this issue. I do not see that anyone loses by saying that they will not agree.

I do not think that this will help our economy however. We do not need another reason to split our country apart. We need to come together and solve problems not add another log in the fire of our discontent.

Much is made about being civil to each other. The very next day we have an attack from one side or the other.

We need jobs, we need jobs that do not rely on more tax revenue to pay for them. You want cleaner air and water? Well so do I, instead of hiring more teachers, fireman or police officers lets spend the money on making our power plants cleaner. Work with businesses to be more energy efficient.

Spending money just to spend money is not the answer and it never will be. How many ethonal plants are sitting idol? How many schools? How is spending money on trollie cars going to help? (they are looking at that for my state).

Maybe instead of doing all of these spending bills it would be better to just have a tax holiday. At least that way the people that are paying taxes would get a break for awhile.

Spending money and wind and solar is not the answer either. I do not see that ever paying off.

Jo Ann - Then what exactly is your problem? You didn't answer any of my questions so I am still quite confused as to what your problem is with gay marriage if it doesn't affect you. Are you just a busy body and feel it is your duty to comment on how other people live their lives? You must be a great neighbor.

gay marriage also strengthens US reputation as a nation of laws, not of pigots (bigots)

KimH, I don't have a problem. I'm just commenting on Obama's statement saying that gay marriage doesn't weaken families. Obama is wrong. Remember this is a comment thread.

And yet you didn't give a credible example of how it weakens families.

I've given my credible example in my other post. If you can't think outside the box and look at the whole picture well I can't help you there.

In talking with a diverse group of people (Dems and Reps) I have discovered the following:

- a majority have a problem with same sex marriage

- a majority feel that same sex couples should have the same legal rights as married couples (insurance, next of kin privileges, etc.)

- same sex civil unions are completely acceptable.

It appears to me after having this discussion that what is really the issue is using the word marriage. So many people equate the word "marriage" with their religion. To use the word marriage and same sex together is contrary to their religious beliefs, even if they have no problem with same sex couples.

So, my question is this - Why push so hard to get these "civil" rights by insisting that it be called same sex marriage if people would be accepting of same sex civil unions? Isn't the whole point to have the same rights associated with being married? Cannot this be achieved by not calling it marriage? It seems to me that this would be a compromise that might achieve that desire. It provides the rights loving same sex couples are denied, while respecting the religious rights/viewpoints of others.

On another note, if we are going to provide these rights to same sex couples, why not extend at least some of these rights to two people who are not romantically involved with each other, but who are long-time platonic companions - this would be especially beneficial to seniors without immediate family, but who have an established household with another person.

Isn't the whole point to have the same rights associated with being married? Cannot this be achieved by not calling it marriage?

@Cruizin - simply put, yes and no. The gay rights movement initially chased after civil unions, but found them to be replete in many areas. Oddly, it is the divorce ritual that gives marriage finite definitions (hence redefined marriage rules) and thus, a lot of legislation has been codified into law based upon divorce law.

As such, civil unions, while legal in almost all states, sadly trails behind rights associated with marriage. If it were a simple solution to say civil unions and marriage are the same thing, then of course, all parties would agree.

The easiest example is patient visitation rights. In some states, they equal married rights, but in other states, they don't exist. So if you have civil union rights in California with full visitation rights, but your partner is in an automobile accident in Arizona, you are not able to see you partner in the hospital. Meanwhile, Mom, Dad, siblings all walk in but they can exclude you. Even worse, you lose your rights in the right to live-or-die decision. Marriage gives you carte blanch access across the country. Civil Unions give you extremely limited rights confined to the state you reside. North Carolina just proved how awful the Civil Union issue is when they eliminated all relationships in their state. Are you willing to say your Civil Union in California is void in North Carolina, but your marriage must be acknowledged?

Federal law mandates each state must recognize marriages between states. Federal law is (almost) silent on recognizing civil unions between states. Therefore, gay folks have only one way to push, and that is with same-sex marriage.

P.S. A agree on your rights to non-romantic couples. There must and should be a place for those folks as well. It used to be called common law marriage. However, that too, has been left behind over the last few decades. Perhaps the adoption of gay marriage will move that to the forefront.

I personally am in favor of gay marriage.

Obama? I don't think he really is. I don't think he's actually "evolved" at all. He didn't campaign against the amendment in N. Carolina before the vote, when it might have made a difference. He never threatened to pull the Democratic National Convention out of Bank of America Stadium in Charlotte, N. Carolina. He has done nothing to make it easier for legally recognized gay couples to file federal taxes. He wouldn't even sign the executive order barring discrimination against gays by federal contractors.

He hasn't DONE anything, just says stuff.

I feel like it's about money.

Just before his announcement, there was a story about millions of dollars being withheld from his campaign by wealthy gay donors.

http://instinctmagazine.com/blogs/blog/big-gay-donations-being-withheld-from-obama-campaign-over-executive-order-refusal?directory=100011

A few days later, after Biden and Sebilius broke the ice for him, he announces his support for gay marriage. And POOF! The Money Flows!

http://instinctmagazine.com/blogs/blog/obama-s-same-sex-marriage-announcement-results-in-astounding-fundraising-support?directory=100011

I hope the gay community has some cynics among them still.

I wonder, is Obama still focusing like a laser beam on the economy?

Well, since his opponent has already announced that he will be running on an anti-gay marriage platform, it's a given that the GOP are NOT. What a surprise....

Hey, the next legal form of marriage just in....

Beastiality!!!

Don't worry those who are pushing for it. It might only take another 4 years. After all, Mr. Obama's views are still "evolving"...

not only are we all in this together but all of us are equal in terms of dignity, in terms of respect

Obama is correct. We are all equal. Liberals, please discuss the merits of one man marrying 8 women. He takes turns with them, two at a time, over a 4 day cycle. The women are perfectly happy and consenting.

Polygamy is good.

Marines-Pa,

I have total respect for you especially for sharing the fact that you struggled with the news. There is no one on this planet - no matter how tolerant - that does not want a "normal" life for their child. Unfortunately, "normal" is defined by the society and life can be very difficult if you do not live your life by the definition of "norma."

I have total respect for you admiting how you struggled with this because it shows how you evolved as a human being and that is beautiful.

To all of you who say that normal is mother and father, look around. There is more disfunction in "normal" homes than not.

cruzin596

So, my question is this - Why push so hard to get these "civil" rights by insisting that it be called same sex marriage if people would be accepting of same sex civil unions?

marriage is not RESERVED to religious ceremonies. Marriage is also a state ceremony. A man and a woman does not have to be married in church to be married. PERIOD. We still live in a country that is supposed to treat all of its citizens equally.

What to they do on mothers day? How do they handle the mental strain of having 2 male parents. Got to be closley conserdered as mental child abuse. To have parents with a disease of fornicating with the same sex. It is not natural and we should not be embrasing something this sick. I mean men sucking each other peckers, damn thats nasty as hell. Not to mentiong poking each other up the dookie shoot, geese talk about nasty. I mean if thats your thing then at least have the decentousy to do it on the down low.

Damn, High Rolla seems to have some serious issues going on there! Someone sounds like they're buried pretty deep in that closet!

As a gay man, I don't think about sex nearly as much as s/he does, or Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council, or any of the other RWNJ's out there! I'm too busy just trying to live my life, same as every one else.

Come out of your closet and join us on the DarK Side dearie, we have cookies!

Well put, common sense post David Noah. Too bad emotion trumps reason on this issue. How anyone can pretend that two men or two women are better suited to raise children than one male and one female is beyond me. Government should support that basic unit of family, and be silent on any others. It seems incredibly obvious that the most pressing issue in our society is the breakdown of the family unit. Every statistic reveals that fatherlessness (deadbeat or absentee) is at the root of most of society's ills.

John, Hate to disagree with you but, If the democratic party has gotten to the point that they would pay someone as goofy as Foolish Rhetoric (Feisty), they have already lost the battle.

Re-read her posts, its sooo obvious the woman is running on pure ego and nothing else. I mean seriously, she and her lemmings even praise each other when they get collapsed, like its a badge of honor. Put away your conspiracy theoriesand let her post. It's a good thing to show how goofy the left can get.

Hey Feisty Dumb Fux, if you have two homosexuals raising a child or children, one of them is NOT a parent in the traditional sense. One of them is a mother or one is a father but the other person is just a roommate. Children need their mother and their father.

Let me know when a Man and a Man can make a Baby without a woman to carry the baby for them, or a Woman and a Woman can make a baby without a man donating sperm, then you can say "homosexuality" is "natural" and should be "accepted".

With the earth bursting at the seams to support 7 billion people, I think we have made enough babies for a while, don't you? How about we focus a little on caring for the millions of children we have already birthed that need parents - no matter WHAT their sexual preference is.

The fact that anyone would insist that adoptive parenting is not "parenting" shows just how far some will go to defend their indefensible viewpoint. As for needing the input of both genders, unless the child is being raised in a phone booth, he will certainly be exposed to all kinds of men and all kinds of women. Ask any single mother and you will find that she doesn't have to pee standing up so her son will learn how to. Ask a single father and you will find that he does not have to know how to apply mascara for his daughter to learn how it's done.

Hey Feisty Dumb Fux, if you have two homosexuals raising a child or children, one of them is NOT a parent in the traditional sense. One of them is a mother or one is a father but the other person is just a roommate. Children need their mother and their father.

Personal name calling, VERY mature!

Anyway, riddle me this Batman. If a heterosexual parent with one or more children has an opposite sex partner who is NOT biologically related to said children but has been living in the same household for many years but without the benefit of marriage, does that make the partner not a "true" parent even though that person actively participated in the raising of those children? Or is THAT situation just hunky dory in your view because they are man and woman but not two men or two women who are raising those children?

Take your time, no rush to answer. But truthfully I'm NOT expecting one.

Just,

The problem with your premise is this; every statistic we have points to the very real issue of fatherlessness being at the root of most of society's ills. Multiple studies have shown that even from infancy, a child needs both the nurturing love of a mother and the tougher, more rambunctious love that comes from a father. The breakdown of basic family unit will be our undoing!!

Up,

3's goofy comments aside, the difference is male and female. I know society likes to pretend they are one in the same, but thats simply not true. I am a high school teacher, trust me, I can tell by the end of the first day of school which students have a father in the home.

P.S. Just,

Ask any good/understanding single mother what their children are missing; a good/strong male influence in their child's life. The issue is that society has become lax in our acceptance of irresponsible men. Men who did not raise/support/actively love thier children used to be shamed, and rightfully so. Its become common place these days, and as I said before, it will be our undoing!

“the basic idea that I want everybody treated fairly in this country.”

Unless you're a non Democrat, white male, hispanic with a gun, non Democrat female with a political opinion, Christian, made something of yourself for a comfortable income, disagree with him or any other Democrat, think the gov't spends too much, think using the "C" word isn't ok just because of their political affiliation, or actually look up which party was in control on issues that were supposed to be Republican's fault.

I can tell by the end of the first day of school which students have a father in the home.

So you can tell after the first day which kids have a father in the home or not. Big deal, want a cookie? Many children grow up in a home without a father for one reason or another. The dad died or took off, mom and dad are divorced or, shock and horror, mom underwent artificial insemination! So what?

To your world view, which is more acceptable? A child being raised in a loving and supportive home with two same-sex parents or a child raised in a home with a male and female who may or may not be married, who share their meth and are abusive to each other and the children?

The problem with your premise is this; every statistic we have points to the very real issue of fatherlessness being at the root of most of society's ills. Multiple studies have shown that even from infancy, a child needs both the nurturing love of a mother and the tougher, more rambunctious love that comes from a father. The breakdown of basic family unit will be our undoing!!

http://www.nownys.org/docs/fatherlessness%20article.pdf

It is important to understand the WHYS of any problem that is associated to fatherless-less children. The simple fact is... IT IS MONEY. When a child is dependent on a single mother, the child is more likely to live in poverty, to spend more time without parental supervision (mommy working two jobs) and to lack basic health care. You might be interested to know that these same problems show up in homes without mothers. It has nothing at all to do with the gender of the parent - as proven by the problems in motherless homes. It has to do with having ONE parent that is responsible for EVERYTHING and not enough money to fill in the gaps.

Single mothers who CHOOSE to have children without a father and do so via sperm bank (with the notable exception of crazy lady Octomom) do not have the same problems as the inner city single mom who struggles to provide for her child. There is a only one difference between the two... and it is income.

There has been no valid study done that would prove the absence of testosterone alone has a negative affect on the child. And your stereotypical pegging of the role of mothers and fathers is patently ridiculous. In my family, my husband is the one who takes the girls to ballet and discusses cooking styles with them... and I am the one that is more likely to toss the football to them in the yard. Do not minimize either gender's strengths simply because they do not fit your mold of what is "normal."

Ask any good/understanding single mother what their children are missing; a good/strong male influence in their child's life.

If whatever single mother you are talking to to offer your "opinion" does not take the time or responsibility to put the child in scouts, foster relationships with male relatives or otherwise allow her child the opportunity to interact with males in society... then I submit she isn't a "good/understanding" mother at all.

Rather than use anecdotes to prove your point, why not try looking at actual studies on the matter? My own daughters were raised in a single parent household after my divorce. Father was pretty much absent. Then I remarried when the youngest was in her teens. They didn't miss a damned thing. I have a father, uncles, cousins, ect.. I have male friends. The girls had male teachers. As a "good/understanding" parent, my kids didn't miss a thing.

Does anyone know how Feisty manages to be the first poster all the time? What a life or get a life.

Hey Up your Uranus (1.77). First I wasn't name calling, just look at her icon. Second, your scenario, although not perfect, at least gives the child a two gender perspective. You know a mom and a dad. Now here's a question for you. Assuming you had both your mother and father growing up, how would you have liked getting rid of one of those (never knowing who they were) and substituting a roommate? No rush, take your time. I don't expect and answer, at least not an honest one.

Gadz, seriously?

I make a general argument and you guys give me individual exceptions. If we as a society cannot even agree that irresponsibility of fathers in our country is a serious issue, then we have no foundation of agreement. If you can't speak generally on a topic without being called a bigot (of course fatherlessness is not always, or even often, a woman's choice, duh?), then you can't speak intelligently on a subject. I am a big picture guy, if you guys want to hang out in the trees, have at it, but mark my words; irresponsible fathers will be our undoing!

the more banana tries to justify his ignorant support of same sex unions/marriages, the more ignorant he shows himself to be. imagine this, his religion prohibits the practise of this and banana claims to be religious. the two don't mix, one of them is wrong. but in the end the world he is acting out of desparation. he is perverting the truth, he is compromising the government, he is mud-slinging his worthy opponent, Mitt Romney, he is blaspheming the truth, he is not what this country needs in this hour. we need to get back to basics, we need a new vision and certainly banana does not have this. he needs to leave and we have to help him out.

feisty is wrong.......as usual

First I wasn't name calling, just look at her icon. Second, your scenario, although not perfect, at least gives the child a two gender perspective. You know a mom and a dad. Now here's a question for you. Assuming you had both your mother and father growing up, how would you have liked getting rid of one of those (never knowing who they were) and substituting a roommate? No rush, take your time. I don't expect and answer, at least not an honest one.

Here's your HONEST answer. From a person who WAS raised in that situation, the person that you so cavalierly refer to as a "roommate" was very much a parent to me. Now I'm not going to tell you which parent was missing or what the gender of the "roommate" was, I'll leave that to your fertile imagination to fill in the blanks. But as far as I'm concerned I had two loving parents who did an excellent job of raising me and my two siblings.

And let me finish by saying how much I resent you or anyone else publicly saying that my family was somehow "inferior" to the textbook Leave it to Beaver ideal of mom, dad and 2.5 children just because my parents weren't married.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a life to get back to.

Well Up Your Uranus, that explains everything. If your story is true you've felt inferior your entire life and now it's time to vent your anger on those who had nothing to do with your situation. It must have been rough growing up with one parent and knowing your other DNA half was merely and egg or sperm donor.

...... I resent you or anyone else.......

And there you have it; there can be no civil discussion about what is ultimately good for society at large, because sensitive people can't get past their own experience, or the experience of someone close to them. Big picture: Government support (not condemnation of non-traditional) of traditional marriage is best for society. No one should demean someone else's experience or love given to them outside of this norm. The question is what should government put its stamp of approval on. Stop taking it personal!!

P.S. Your resentment for 3; I get that!

Marine Pa and Krestov - you've both shown what incredible people you are. I'm sure for each of you, finding out your sons were not the stereotypes you thought they would be growing up - was a shock. But, both of you showed you love and intelligence in realizing they were and are still the men you raised. Their different lifestyles didn't change their hearts or souls. They didn't become men you wouldn't be proud to have as your sons. And, you each proved you are Fathers (or Krestov a mother?) your sons can be proud to have as parents. You showed love is all that is important.

You showed that the measure of a man is not in their sexual orientation but in their hearts and lives and clearly you and your sons are great people.

Kudos to you. And, don't mind the bigots on this site. It is their loss because they choose to avoid really great people who could teach them a lot.

Every child needs two parents, a man and a woman !

A Dad and a Mom are needed for a child, not two confused men or two confused women !

Gays should not be allowed to adopt children.

lawdog-1278093 - what you've proved is that very often when a man and woman procreate the offspring is a total embarrassment. That's all you've proved.

Sorry Mr. ex-President Obama...this independent voter who voted for you last time just can't vote for you now.

Ron-975213 - you never voted for Obama. He hasn't lost anything with you.

David Noah said:

Let me know when a Man and a Man can make a Baby without a woman to carry the baby for them, or a Woman and a Woman can make a baby without a man donating sperm, then you can say "homosexuality" is "natural" and should be "accepted".

There is a lizard living in the desert of the American southwest called a whiptail lizard. A very long time ago there were both male and female of the species, but when drought and climate change caused a rise in temperature and turned the area into a desert, the eggs being hatched turned int females (any herpetologist can tell you that it only takes a temperature differential of a few degrees to make an egg hatch a male or female.

So there was Female 1, who could only reproduce sexually and Female 2, who through mutation acquired the ability to reproduce without needing a male (self-fertilize and lay eggs--it's called parthenogenesis.) Female 1 could find no males to procreate with so her genetic line died out. Female two had several nests of eggs in her lifetime, passing on her genetic material as well as the ability to procreate via parthenogenesis, and eventually those became so successful that now there are no males of the species and the females procreate with no males needed.

Sexual reproduction became a self-defeating evolutionary dead-end. Males cannot procreate with each other; there are no species on earth who are composed entirely of males. There are, however, species composed entirely of females.

Remember the movie Jurassic Park? How Jeff Goldblum found out the female-only population of the park suddenly started procreating on their own? While the movie was fiction, much of the science was real/plausible. There have been documented cases of female sharks in aquariums popping out pups even when no member of the other gender was available and DNA testing proved that the pups were created via parthenogenesis.

Moral of the story: Males are not necessary. Males are expendable.

In case you're wondering, I am married, bi, Wiccan, with two young children (both boys), I have had lesbian relationships in the past and am currently married 10 years to a Christian male who sees no problem with either being married to a witch nor to being married to a woman who admires the Victoria's Secret model pinup in his 'Man-Cave' (and in fact has an NFL cheerleaders calendar in her craft room.)

High Rolla said:

What to they do on mothers day? How do they handle the mental strain of having 2 male parents. Got to be closley conserdered as mental child abuse. To have parents with a disease of fornicating with the same sex. It is not natural and we should not be embrasing something this sick. I mean men sucking each other peckers, damn thats nasty as hell. Not to mentiong poking each other up the dookie shoot, geese talk about nasty. I mean if thats your thing then at least have the decentousy to do it on the down low.

Answer me this: How come movies with guys making out (like 'Brokeback Mountain') are 'nasty' while movies with two girls making out (Natalie Portman and Mila Kunis in 'Black Swan') become box office hits? Isn't there a double standard?

Thanks Amanda,

Comic relief; Some MSNBC posters are always good for a laugh. Lizards, wicca, Christian husband, Bi, victoria secret, Jurrasic Park, Parthenogenesis, unnecessary males, etc.

P.S. the fact that your serious makes it all the more fun, so Please do, keep em comin.

Obama is wrong as usual. How can gay marriages strengthen families? EVERY gay marriage will be a blended family if kids are brought into the scenario. A third party will ALWAYS be involved. This is not what marriage is all about. It's not intended to be this way.

Uh, Jo-Ann ... doesn't the same thing apply if a divorced person remarries? Isn't every re-marriage a "blended" family? Isn't there a 3rd, or even 4th, person involved? If gay marriage doesn't strengthen families, neither does allowing divorced individuals to marry. Should we ban those marriages, too? If not, why not?

Isn't a blended family with two parents still a stronger family than one with a single parent?

Finally, why is the right-wing so pre-occupied with fitting things into neat little boxes. If a situation doesn't fit their pre-conceived notions, they're against it. Why are conservatives so terrified of the future?

What to they do on mothers day? How do they handle the mental strain of having 2 male parents. Got to be closley conserdered as mental child abuse.

What mental strain? It may surprise you that children don't have a problem with the concept at all. Only close-minded adults seem to have a problem with the idea of same-sex parents.

People, understand that Obama has made a political decision that he can profit from the gay marriage issue by changing sides. Remember that he opposed it.... up until a few weeks ago, I suppose. It is theoretically possible that he has had an honest change of heart on the matter, but seriously, what is the likelihood? Despite that complaint, I'm glad finally to have him with me on the right side of this issue, but he's a politician down to the marrow in his bones.

Amanda, if we can believe the Internet Movie Database on the matter, Brokeback Mountain cost $14 million to make and grossed $83 million. Respectable gross, awesome profit.

darn,

In 1996 Obama is on record (signed document) as being pro gay marriage, how many changes of heart (kinda interesting evolution don't you think?) is he allowed before we all just call bull, and disreguard everything he has to say, no matter how elequently he says it?

Remember that he opposed it.... up until a few weeks ago, I suppose. It is theoretically possible that he has had an honest change of heart on the matter, but seriously, what is the likelihood?

Obama said that he wasn't in favor of same-sex marriage (which is different than opposing it). He also indicated that his position wasn't fixed ... he was willing to listen to different viewpoints. He finally came to the conclusion that there is no rational reason that gays should not be allowed to marry. I'm still waiting for the opponents of same-sex sex to provide a rational basis for opposing same sex marriage, but they apparently don't have one.

KimH, I don't have a problem. I'm just commenting on Obama's statement saying that gay marriage doesn't weaken families. Obama is wrong. Remember this is a comment thread.

I've given my credible example in my other post. If you can't think outside the box and look at the whole picture well I can't help you there.

Jo Ann - Apparently Toasty and I are still having trouble following your reasoning. How is Obama wrong? For us idiots who just can't understand your reasoning, please repeat the reason why you think gay marriage weakens families. I realize this is a comment post but if you expect to be taken seriously you just can't pull a comment out of your butt and post it. You should sound like you have a position and that you have put some thought behind what you say. Just sayin...

I was raised in a traditional family with a mother and father. My father was pretty much "absent". He was there physically but preferred to read the paper and watch TV. He rarely got involved with us. A few years ago, I discovered that I have a co-dependent personality, which surprised me because I'm not going to stick around with an abuser. But it turns out that it is the reason that I was promiscuous (trying to win a man's love) and the reason I excuse other people's bad behavior. I was told by a therapist that it is usually caused by a neglectful father. So yeah, I probably would have been better off with two mothers or two fathers if they were involved with our lives. It isn't about who is in the home, it is about the love and attention they give the children.

Caught in the Middle, just what religion are you that allows you to be a name-calling bigot? Maybe you ned to stop worrying about Obama's religion and beliefs and straighten out your own. Nowhere did Jesus (assuming you are Christian) say we should love one another unless they are different from us in which case you may call them nasty names.

Nativesocalx,

You got it right. Unfortunately the debate about homosexual marriage is never about what's best for the children. It's about what's best for the homosexuals. I have to side with the children on this one.

Seeking Sanity

To whom am I an embarrassment to, old great one?

You are welcome to your opinions on the subject and I in turn am welcome to mine.

I care not what your personal opinions of me are.

Grow up and add substance to the discussion.

Marines-Pa

My boy's partner works hard looks after my grandson and managed catch more fish than me (I am yet to forgive him for that) and fixed my truck (again showed me up, but I forgave him for that). Most of all the guy is respectful to me, my wife and my son.

@Marines-Pa,

You've made me miss my Dad again.

Thank you for being an awesome Dad.

I have to side with the children on this one.

Which means that you must support same-sex marriage. Why should the children of gays be denied the protection of having two married parents? Are they second-class citizens?

LOL! Jo Ann tells progressives we can't think outside the box. Thats so funny! Thanks for the laugh, Jo Ann.

Jo Ann, Jo Ann, Jo Ann - Are you there??? Still waiting for you drop some wisdom on me...

John-2006106: Re: your collapsed comment at #1.10. Feisty has an IN w/ MSNBC that's how she knows whats coming out and always gets the first post.

Gil

You are absolutely right !

The F---- Rehead is either an employee or a paid political hack by MSNBC. Either way, she or it, is on the IN with MSNBC. I pointed out a few days ago on one of the boards that some of the things that that that Redhead was doing here, were impossible unless she/it has inside site access. Of course this threw the LIBTARDS into spasms. After checking the the Redhead's Friends List, I found several of these LIBTARDS listed there.

It is very obvious that there is a concentrated anti- Conservative, anti - Christian, and as far as I am concerned an anti-intelligence movement organization at work here !

Ah yes....those terrible anti-conservative, anti-Christian LIBTARDS, who think America should have no 2nd-class citizens.

Good one NewDay.

Hey, wait a second it was not the dog gone republicans that brought this up. And golly, having just Seen Hardball, with two black religious types, and seeing the overwhelming opposition to gays that blacks seem to have, I really am not sure what you mean by 'lowest part of their base.'

What's up with the black opposition to gays NewDay? See, even here in the progressive paradise that is Cali, Prop 8 passed, due in large part by the huge black turnout associated with Obama's '08 campaign.

So again NewDay, please define for us "lowest of their base."

Unless you'd rather not. It's ok I understand. Unseemly.

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED

Or is it that the GOP really doesn't care about marriage, and just wants to pander to the lowest of their base?

So, in your perverted world view married couples are the lowest? Don't let us keep you and make you late for your NAMBLA meeting.

NAMBLA, Now that is some funny stuff, sad, but funny.

Hey Spankster, where were you Friday evening Cali Time? Got an Alibi ?

Meanwhile, while crawling thru these Tubes that connect us all, I just Finished reading a story about Veterans & Military in General Support President Obama against Malibu Mitt by 7%.

Whassssssssssup, thats even more than Real Americans support President Obama over Malibu Mitt!

Stop Bogartin there Spankster, with You believing African Americans are gonna Abandon President Obama over a Social Issue, that must be Good Stuff your carrying thru them Tunnels in San Diego!

BTW, wheres Malibu Mitt, anyone seen or heard from him Today, yesterday, did he even make it out of Liberty U Saturday?

Hide your $$$ Spankster, Gold is Dropping as fast as Gas Prices!

Hot Digggity Dauuuuuum!

Occupy SoggyBottom!

Rick, did you just imply that military service members are not "real Americans?"

Meanwhile, while crawling thru these Tubes that connect us all, I just Finished reading a story about Veterans & Military in General Support President Obama against Malibu Mitt by 7%.

Whassssssssssup, thats even more than Real Americans support President Obama over Malibu Mitt!

Wow, so now gay marriage is a racial issue. Leave it to the conservatives to deflect rather than reflect. I did have to grumble over Mr. Gregory on MTP this weekend, as he let slide a snide comment from his resident bozo conservative, lecturing us that the civil rights movement could not be compared to gay equal rights issues because the gays haven't been strung up and killed. Wow, I would bet there are quite a few friends/family and fans of Matthew Sheppard who would beg to disagree. Apparently, Mr. Gregory needs a list of strung up gays to make him happy. Shall we follow Sheppard with H. Milk, and the rest of this fun little list. Mmmm, maybe we can add Mitt's shear the gay-away episode to the entry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_acts_of_violence_against_LGBT_People#USA

newday - The Religious Right being their lowest of their base. The only argument they seem to be able to make is to quote the bible. I would like to see one of them think for themselves.

The problem is Kim, that they use the Bible as a battering ram against others, being very selective about those portions that they read.

But, this isn't a country founded on religion. This is a secular country, and those who would try to codify their beliefs into law are perverting the Constitution.

Well I gues Gay Marriage is a whole lot easier to talk about than what is going on in Europe. Cuz yeah, that's some really important stuff.

You Libs keep worrying about things that happened 50 years ago and who marries who.

Man, it is really going to be a long, hard fall for you folks.

That's funny Rick - Gas just jumped up $.14 per gallon here.

Perhaps that the fine California blend we get this time of year.

Yep, that ought to help Cali businesses, which you know pay for Cali government.

And isn't Brown doing a fine job? Dude, $15 billion in the hole.

That's a lot of chedder, eh Rick?

Hey WCA - you see that the new socialist prez of France owns three houses on the French Riviera?

No that

That's fantastic stuff.

nibor: no, actually I was referring to the militant religious zealots, who have caused more misery in this world than just about any other group.

You, on the other hand, seem to know a lot about NAMBLA. I am certain we can all guess why.

Being adopted by gay people will make you gay in the same way that being adopted by tall people will make you taller!

Straight marriages will be less meaningful if gay marriage is allowed, the sanctity of Britney Spears, 55 hour marriage, and Kim Kardashian's 72 hour just for fun marriages would be destroyed, not to mention people like Newt's 3 marriages.

Legalizing gay marriage will open the door for all kinds of crazy behavior, people may wish to marry their pets, because a dog has legal standing and can sign their name to a marriage contract.

For Christ's sake give these people their rights as equal citizens in America!

Uh OH!!!!!

From The Green Car Reports May 14, 2012:

The owner of a new 2012 Fisker Karma that burned to the ground in Sugar Land, Texas, is trading accusations with Fisker.

The fire destroyed two other cars and damaged the garage it was stored in and other parts of the house. The owner reported a smell of burning rubber before he parked the car.

Fort Bend fire marshal Robert Baker said last week that the Karma was the cause of the blaze. He noted that numerous inspectors from Fisker had arrived on the scene to conduct their own investigation.

Sucks when your cars keep blowing up.

Well folks, this could be the final nail in the old coffin. First they decide they aren't going to build the next car in Delaware and now this. Seems to me I mentioned that engine heat was a bit of a problem with these cars a year or so ago.

Go figure.

Wonder if the USA can get the $193 million it loaned 'em so far, back?

3 houses on the French Riviera, eh Spanky? Pretty sweet.

I could probably get by with 2, but I'm a compassionate Conservative, not a Socialist.

Next thing we'll find out is that he drives a Karma.....

Wow, bitching again about the Fisker, what is this, 2 Fiskers gone by fire? Remind me again, how many Pinto's exploded, how many Corvairs were deemed unsafe? How many Toyota's recalled for a faulty accelerator? The constant negativity towards alternate energy cars is at best, tiresome. But hey, keep on driving those polluting, gas guzzling Hummers - they are safe as hell, right?

Well I gues Gay Marriage is a whole lot easier to talk about than what is going on in Europe. Cuz yeah, that's some really important stuff.

Leave it to the right-wing WAC I mean whack jobs, having a hard time trying to figure out which country Mitt and Barrack are running a presidential campaign in - let me help you out. It is in the USA where gay marriage is not allowed, not France, where gay marriage is allowed.

Speaking of which, how is that double dip recession in England caused by the austerity movement working for ya. That European enough for ya?

Well Red that's pretty sharp. Comparing cars built 50 years ago with the ones being built today.

Ain't technology great?

HA

I'd take a Hummer any day.

There will be plenty of garage fires as electric cars proliferate, in most cases it will be found that it has nothing to do with the car but has everything with the homeowner who tries to "do it yourself" and attempts to install their own level II charging system. Their will be plenty of fires created by brother in laws with a set of Time Life books trying to do electrical work, and having no clue about the different facets of proper installation of a high volt-amp continuous load circuit for level II charging and even less knowledge of the load calculations required to make sure the homes electrical panel is not overloaded. Some here will no doubt blame the car itself but that would be akin to blaming the 11 space heaters plugged into the same outlet for an electrical fire, and not the fool who does such things. Free but good advice, if you are going to provide an electric car of any brand with level II charging, let a professional install the circuitry, you will need anywhere from a 30 to 80 amp 240 volt circuit, it's not worth it to try and save a few bucks on a half assed installation. You can save a few bucks by skipping the dentist and "do it yourself" by pulling your own tooth with a trusty old pair of pliers, but I don't recommend that either. Unfortunately it will take some fires before people start to realize the level of energy involved in "quick" charging an electric car, but it took people awhile to catch on to the dangers of combustion engines now didn't it.

Forrest, I guess your crystal ball missed this part of the story:

Fort Bend fire marshal Robert Baker said last week that the Karma was the cause of the blaze

Ah, silly little RedDev.

Austerity? tell us what the UK budget was in 2008 or 2009 compared to 2011.

Use use the term austerity, but it does not appear to mean what you think it does.

Funny thng is Forrest, none of the libbies around here seem to want to buy a Volt. In fact many own [gasp!] something other than a Ford, GM or Chrysler.

Dude - I can't even keep my smart phone charged. Gonna have to pass on a shiny Volt, FIsker, or whatever. Beside they run on COAL, and nothing is less green than COAL, right?

And seriously - of course the new socialist French prez is against austerity.

Dude has three mansions on the Riveiera. Nothing austere about that.

Just OPM [Other People's Money].

Just ask Jerry Brown and Gov. Quinn how that is working out for them. Capital and wealth moves [away] easily. Just ask the Face Book guy.

Absolutely hysterical.

WCA no where in my post did I say that this particular instance was the type of situation I described, I did not reference this particular Fiskar incident in any fashion whatsoever. I am simply telling you what has already started to happen, and what we will see more of until people come to a better understanding of the levels of energy involved in level II charging circuits and the demand they will put on their residential electrical panels. Newer homes will be much less of a problem, older homes will likely need an electrical upgrade, people who live in 40 year old homes have been adding electrical appliances for years, and many never realize the original electrical service was never designed for that kind of demand. The do it yourself kind of guy can easily (and inevitably will) get in over his head with the addition of this kind of high energy circuit.

Elliot-Br549, I usually don't take the time to Splain myself, but since you asked, i'll accomadate ya.

See, these Tubes we crawl thru are filled with all kinda History(Thank You Al Gore for inventing the Internets)& with a Click, I can recall Bushes "With Us or Againgst Us" line of BS.

Even more recent, I can find the RightWingBibleThumpinWildDingBat from Alaska(where the heck is she nowadays)"Real Americans" line of BS.

See how easy that was, i'm sorry "Real Americans" flew over your head so easily, but it's the nature of the RightWingBibleThumpinBeast!

In the famous words of Chris Rock:

I aint afraid of Al-Quida, I'ma afraid of Al-Cracker!

You Betcha!

Occupy SoggyBottom!

We hold these truths to be self-evident that all gays and lesbians are created equal

Spanky it's not just about being "green" however coal fired electrical plants can add "scrubbers" which greatly reduce harmful emissions, far less expensive than adding a scrubber to every tailpipe in the nation. In my opinion it is more about the long-term availability of energy, we can generate all the electricity we care to, we can use coal, wind, solar, and many other energy sources to generate all the electricity we want, virtually anywhere we want. We never have to depend on foreign nations, or have them influence the availability or cost of our energy in any way, we can generate all the electricity we care too with completely domestic sources of energy, some renewable, and some not, some very clean, and some not so clean, but we have total control and can absolutely generate as much as we wish to, wherever we wish. If nothing else it may save a few gallons of gas for you, until you get your new Fiskar Jet Ski, and Tesla Speed boat. As a nation we can completely control the lonterm supply of electricity we can have as much as we want for as long as we want, because we can create it in so many varied ways. As far as the Chevy and Ford thing all I can say is shame on them, Be American Buy American, hell Spanky I even own an American, Union made laptop, at least it is assembled by union workers and contains American made components wherever possible, I watch an old American made Pro Scan TV from when they were still made here, before that it was a Zenith, when they were made here. I never but a foreign product if I have a choice, and in many cases I do without, if I don't have a choice. Who will support the American worker if Americans won't? How would you feel about people hiring foreign lawyers, because I've heard they are just as good and much cheaper, you know the white collar jobs are being outsourced (to India for example) in droves, they have plenty of engineers, accountants, and lawyers, and at such a bargain price. Even without that kind of pressure on white collar jobs and their ability to earn, I guarantee you when they close an American manufacturing plant the office staff goes along with the plant workers to the unemployment line. So I will say it again and you may ridicule me if you wish but I believe if you want to be an American then buy American.

I thought this section was about rump rangers and carpet munchers, not car fires.

The Bible FORBIDS divorce. How easy it is to skip over that.

The Bible FORBIDS divorce. How easy it is to skip over that.

When you're a "Cafeteria Christian" you just pick and choose the parts of the bible that fit into your narrow little world view. For many of them, their version of the bible stops at Leviticus and picks up again at Revelation, completely ignoring everything else in between.

And no, there is no "S" at the end of Revelation. If some of you bible thumpers out there actually took the time to READ the book you love to quote so much, you'd realize that.

Yawn....7% of registered voters put gay marriage at the top of the issue list (CBS/NYT poll today).

I'm still laughing at the Gay Marriage strengthens family! How do 2 homosexuals have a family?

By having a family, Don. This isn't rocket surgery.

Why does everybody seem to have such a problem with North American Marlon Brando Look Alikes?

Kim,

Most Evangelical pseudo-Christian ultra-right-wing-extremist nut jobs ignore most of what the bible teaches, they only follow the parts that support their hate. The ignore Luke 6: 27-30 and all of Mark chapter 10, where Jesus denounces divorce as a sin, equating it with adultery. Why should Mark 10 be more important to them? Well, Evangelical "Christians" have the highest divorce rate of any demographic in the nation.

So who really threatens the sanctity of marriage? The 4-5% of the population that is gay, or the 55% of Evangelicals getting divorces?

NewDayDawning returned said:

But, this isn't a country founded on religion. This is a secular country, and those who would try to codify their beliefs into law are perverting the Constitution.

The first Amendment to the Constitution says Congress shall make no law abridging freedom to practice any religion I choose.

Now, I'm Wiccan, and we have sect for lesbinns (the Dianic Wiccans) and gays (the Minoan Brotherhood) in reaction to the Goddess's directive that 'All acts of love and pleasure are My gifts.' So long as the two(or more) involved are adults and it is consensual, we do not care if it's two guys, two girls, one guy or one girl, even to people in the middle of a gender reassignment.

If two of our Dianics or two of our Minoans want to get married, the NC law barring same-sex marriages infringes on OUR right to practice OUR religion as we want, thereby being unconstitutional.

You have to wonder why, in the name of sanity, the GOP doesn't outlaw divorce if they want to strengthen marriage?

Because, for the GOP, divorce is practically a sporting event.

He can't talk about the economy or border security. He has to change the subject. But the middle of America won't be fooled.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Sound familiar?

Ricky,

Gas prices are up in California, .15 cents in a week. According to AAA, four oil refineries shut down for for maintenance switching to “summer blend” gas. It so happens to be right before Memorial weekend.

Tunnels, Border security-

MONTERREY, Mexico - 49 people found mutilated and scattered in a pool of blood in a region near the U.S .border. No apparent signs of gunshots to the bodies. All 49 corpus found without heads and hands and feet.

$.15 in ONE DAY!

And I gotta fill up the boat and the skis in a couple of weeks. THank god they are in Arizona, that does not use the crap summer blend.

Always about $.40 cents cheaper in Arizona. More blue state fail.

Spanky,

Oh my, I stand corrected, that's even more depressing.

Uh, Elliot? Word has it the economy's getting better. So is border security.

Pushing Gay Marriage is about as good as Walter Mondale.

"Hi, I'm Walter Mondale. I'm running for President. I'm going to raise your taxes!."

Toasty, that's the word, but not the facts. So why not Obama talk about the economy? Because if the economy was getting better, Obama would be stating that all day long. Not a peep from MSNBC. So hey, why is Obama slandering business owners that support Romney?

Sorry Paul, but you're wrong.

Funny, but is was only a few weeks ago that Rachel and Big Eddy and the Rev told us every night that 'the economy is getting better' or ' we are on the uptick.'

But now not so much.

Plus I just saw the CBS poll that has Mitt and Obama essentially tied with women.

Whoops. Maybe they all found out a box of condoms only costs about $5.

Yes, Mr.President, Talk about how our economy is growing despite the European crisis--how we are adding jobs every quarter. For the first time since 2008, the government is taking in more money than its spending. Under this president, more private sector jobs have been created than under theprevious president.

Yes, Mr President, talk about how the economy is headed in the right direction!

MONTERREY, Mexico - 49 people found mutilated and scattered in a pool of blood in a region near the U.S .border. No apparent signs of gunshots to the bodies. All 49 corpus found without heads and hands and feet.

And that's Obama's fault how?

Bart Conner,

We are taking more money in then we are spending? When did that happen? We are creating jobs, or I should say adding jobs at a pace that does not even keep up with population growth. I hardly consider that a win. Actually I am pretty sure that we are still showing a net loss of workers each month.

President Bush had a net job gain of 140,000 people even with the total tanking of our economy. President Obama does not have a net job gain from the day he took office until now. I am pretty sure that he is down at least 2 million jobs yet.

Toasty - do you have any facts to point to? How about the one that says now that workforce participation rate is below it's lowest rate since 2008 and if the current participation rate were the same then unemployment would be 11% not the 8.1% being quoted. Everyone is waking up to the fact that the unemployment number isn't showing the real picture.

you mean the 25 straight months of private sector job growth, Elliot? Or the fact that we are manufacturing and exporting more good than we have in over 10 years?

ralph,

Border security? Really?

President Obama, in 3 years, has deported more illegals than Bush did in 8. Also, fewer people are crossing the border now than ever, thanks to tighter security imposed by President Obama. Try again.

If you're going to comment on something, please be sure you've got your facts straight first.

Wow in El Paso gas has gone down 0.34 cents. Not bad I say. Guess we can attribute that to Obama because when gas went up it was Obama's fault. So I guess the economy is getting better. Just Saying!

Virginia, illegal border crossings may have dropped abit, but that is because of the loss of jobs in the US since Obama was crowned. Why come over here and starve when they can stay home and starve?

Nope elliot, it is part of Obozo's distraction plans.

No need Obama already told us his plan. You remember the proposed budget that could not even garner a single democrat vote?

Yeah, it sucked that bad.

As far as a plan he will do what Illinois and Cali have done. Raise taxes, regulate business and sit back and watch the deficits explode.

It's all just so 'unexpected.'

I thought that civil rights were ALWAYS important.

Of course.

Perhaps you can explain the difference between a civil union and a marriage?

Oh and by the way, were they important last month and last year? If so, why'd Obama come out now?

A marriage has full legal rights, while a civil union has only partial rights.

And President Obama came out because Vice President Biden let his own opinion slip couple days earlier.

The President can multitask. Even you'd get bored if every time you turned on the news you heard about the economy only.

The President is aware of the current state of the US economy. There are statements given about the economy from the President. Why can't people focus on more than one thing?

Wait until the debates and I am sure you will be able to listen when the President speaks about his positions.

Can he Bart? The last comment I heard Obama make about the economy was "Sometimes even I forget how bad it is."

Don:

So what? Obama is a human being like any other. He can forget things just like anyone else. But, that comment wasn't about memory, it was about "illusions". The economy "appears" to be better (which it is on some aspects), but appearances can be deceiving. Try looking at a Photoshopped image of a woman in Playboy and then try looking at a real woman. (or compare the photos of the same woman with and without her makeup) See? Appearances can be deceiving.

what has he done that makes him a marxist?

Good try, Tracy, but you won't get a response. Bea would have to first know what the word "Marxist" meant to give you an answer.

these words are used so much that no one even questions them anymore. i've asked these questions before, i get one word answers, like: healthcare.... which is not an answer. tell me how it's socialist. because most liberals, like myself cant find anything about this law remotely socialist.

i wish it was.

Uh, Bea? The President is married to a woman with two kids. I think it's safe to say he's heterosexual...

Toasty, afraid to tell you that there is an accusation out there. Right now I take it about as good as Obama, Bush, or Clinton meeting with the aliens.

Heh, so let's see, now he's a left-wing communist and a far-right nazi, a muslim with a radical christian pastor, and a married man with two kids who's also gay and unable to procreate. What will these people think up next...?

Tracy - people struggle to place Obama with a label they can understand. No, He is not a marxist, communist or true socialist.

True socialists would take over physical ownership and control. Hitler was not a true socialist either. He did take physical ownership and control of PARTS of key industries, and gave them to people who were loyal to him. Out of fear, each entire industry pledged loyalty to Hitler and did whatever he required.

Now, explain to the world how Obama isn't a socialist, when he took 2/3's control of GM, fired the Chairman himself and gave half of the GM stock to the unions, who are totally loyal to him.

Explain how the ACA isn't taking control of the Health care industry and a chunk of our university system.

Like it or not, our country under Obama is moving quickly to a hybrid form of socialism via legislative fiat and choking regulations.

Uh, DB? Care to elaborate on your random "university system" accusation?

Heh, so let's see, now he's a left-wing communist and a far-right nazi, a muslim with a radical christian pastor, and a married man with two kids who's also gay and unable to procreate. What will these people think up next...?

Typical self-contradiction on the Teapublican fringe. Funny thing is, they don't recognize that they've contradicted themselves - probably because they live in a fictional world divorced from reality.

Just like how he's an iron-fisted tyrant who will crush any opposition beneath his boot heel... And is also a limp-wristed pussy who lets everyone walk over him.

You forgot the parts about Obama being a Kenyan who wants death panels and hangs out with terrorists.

ok. you're right. obamas a total socialist.

the government purchsed stake in GM in order to struture it's bankruptcy. the gov bought the stock instead of just loaning the company money. GM will, over the years, purchase back the stock as a way to repay it's loan.

the gov had majority stake in the company for less than 4 years. the majority of the stock has been repurchased by the company, and the company has returned to prifitability and private ownership.

obamacare forces us to all buy insurance from private for profit companies.......

you obviously have no idea what socialism is.

The US Government still owns almost 30% of GM stock and there are still other outstanding loans they have to pay back. They are showing profitability currently because we own their stock and didn't make it all a loan. So we'll only get paid back if their stock rises above a value to make a profit on it and when we sell it doesn't crash the stock. And in the process of taking over ownership we screwed all of the current stock owners - your retirement plan, your 401k plan all took a hit over that.

What will these people think up next...?

See, that's your problem right there. You assume they think.

Toasty,

Governor McGreevey was married with children. Would you say it was safe to say he was heterosexual. Afterall President Obama is still evolving on the gay issue so maybe that will change.

And in the process of taking over ownership we screwed all of the current stock owners - your retirement plan, your 401k plan all took a hit over that.

GM was bankrupt. The stockholders had nothing of value. If the US hadn't done a thing, they would still have lost the stock and retirement plans would still have taken a hit.

How can you be on the wrong side of history if you're against "civil unions" or gay marriage?

Because like those who stood against interracial marriage, they are going to go down in history as an absolute disgrace and stain on our nation.

Toasty - only the smallest few (mostly former democrats) of republicans have ever opposed interracial marriages. The two biggest offenders in history are Democrats and Nazi/white supremicists.

Abraham Lincoln - Freed th slaves, and began desegregating the union armies, removed the "white" and "colored" designations on the White House toilet rooms.

Woodrow Wilson, re-segregted the military, re-hung the "white" and "colored" signs on the White House Toilet rooms, but also opposed women suffrage.

And then they came up with the Southern Strategy after the passage of the Civil Rights Act. Nice attempt to change the subject, though.

Marriage is a RELIGIOUS institution. It is an oath taken before GOD by a man and a woman. Marriage has been a religious institution for thousands of years, long before this country was around. Homosexuals can not be married in a traditional church wedding because homosexuality is against Gods teaching. I believe in loving the person but not the sin. Obummer has changed his position multiple times, he is pandering for votes and has no strong beliefs of his own, he is not a Christian despite whatever comes out of his duplicitous mouth. This country was founded on Judeo Christian beliefs, and homosexuals will never have a Godly marriage regardless of whatever laws are passed. What's wrong with civil unions? Btw they don't have to participate in abhorrent sexual practices, they can CHOOSE to be celebate and live a Religious life or not

No, marriage was around way before organized religion. You're thinking of "holy matrimony." Marriage is a secular agreement.

This country was not founded on Judeo Christian beliefs, it was founded on freedom of, and freedom from religion if you wish, any references to a higher power was simply made as God, as "in God we trust" it never said "in Jesus we trust". If people can't be married by a church it is simply the man made rules for that particular church which change all the time, because the rules were all made by man not God, not by any God. If you were Catholic for instance it used to be you could not eat meat on Friday, the women had to wear something on their head, and you could never touch the Communion wafer. Here is a real big one there used to be a place called Limbo, it was not heaven and it was not hell, it was the place all unbaptized babies went, because they did not do anything to damn their souls to hell, but they had "original sin" because of Adam and Eve, so they could not go to heaven. Well it turns out the Pope a few years ago canceled Limbo and said all the babies could go to heaven now, how would you like to be in heaven when all of a sudden millions of babies all arrive at once because the Pope changed the rules again. The rules can change because we make the rules now don't we. If the Pope can get millions and millions of Pagan babies into heaven he can get some gay people in if he wants to. The Pope and God are good like that.

DB, if you look back at history, Repubs were the LIBERAL party when Lincoln was President.

Karclair: Romney has also "changed his position multiple times" and he is also "pandering for votes". The same could be said for many Presidents and presidential candidates. So, your argument is hollow.

This is America. Religious institution should not be and are not in charge and should have absolutely no say in how our country is run. "God" has no place in state and federal politics. The same could be said for state marriage (wow, would you look at that! State marriage, the topic you conveniently ignored). Churches have every right to refuse marrying gays because it "violates their belief", but states have no such right to deny such basic civil liberties to its citizens.

What's disgusting about strengthening families?

Toasty. Over half of the terms used in marriage have the base meaning of woman pledging to a man and her becoming a mother. This makes any couple a marriage. It weakens the meaning.

So I suppose that we shouldn't allow women who have gone through menopause to marry. Hold on while I text my mom with this news. She's not going to like this...

A "woman pledging to a man"!? What a misogynistic viewpoint of marriage! What, is a woman property or something? That's garbage. Marriage is not about genitalia, it's about love. Including gay couples in that definition of marriage only strengthens the definition.

I agree, homosexuals are a scourge on society, they along with child abusers who without any doubt are guilty of this should be exterminated like the vermin they are. As with sodom and gommorah America with go down because of its acceptance of immorality. I for one am sick of homosexuals and continuously reading about children being abused and even the laws on the books do not work. There comes a time when enough is enough and extreme measures like execution will be the only cure. Gay is a misnomer, these things are not happy as the word is intended to be, they are cancers on nature. When they go with their own kind and with women they are spreading their murdering disease to their spouses and/or other women who they do not tell what they are. Do you really believe that if a man who is interested in dating a woman and he tells her oh! by the way I also have sex with men, they would have anything to do with them. God what is going on? A sitting President approving of a deviant lifestyle who claims to be a Christian, I usually do not judge a person's faith in God but this has to show everyone that this man will do anything to stay in power and is out to destroy America. This pervert has got to go.

wow jerry.

you are a hate-filled lunatic.

Umm, child abuse is not relegated to any gender group or sexual preference. Child abuse, unfortunately, happens at the hands of both straight and gay people. Many men who profess heterosexuality to the outside world will industriously engage in pedophilia with little boys. Many men who profess heterosexuality will engage in pedophilia with little girls. Pity the children. Many adoptive parents of either stripe are wonderful and the reverse is also the case.

Genitals aside, I could care less about his stance on gay marriage, when it comes to growing the government and further indebting the country, raising taxes without cutting spending, breaking all his campaign promises, signing Patrtiot Act II and NDAA into law, he loses me, regardless of his stance on gay marriage.

How in the world can anyone support something that they themselves won't do?

Do we know this?

How could you not know it? Or do you mean that obama could have a butt buddy in the closet?

you are just a horrible person. you're insulting the wife of someone you dislike for political reasons..... please lecture us some more about the moral compass.

as much as i didn't care for george bush, i never felt animosity towards laura... or barbara or nancy. in fact i liked them as first ladies in spite of being a liberal. i know there are liberals who are as horrible as yourself.

ugh. sad.

jbrote:

If he really believes this, he should start shacking up with Joe BiteMe and see how strong his family becomes. Can't be much worse than living with a chronically angry woman like moochelle. How in the world can anyone support something that they themselves won't do?

First of all, your first statement is ludicrous. Why would a heterosexual man enter a gay relationship in order to prove that he supports gay marriage? Secondly, your next sentence is not only rude and juvenile, it's untrue. Calling the First Lady names is middle-school at best, and she is not "chronically angry."

Obama is duplicitous. People start to speculate about those who change their statements and beliefs. He is not a Christian or he would acknowledge that marriage is a religious institution. He doesn't stand for anything except his own agenda.

"he is not a Christian, or he would acknowledge that marriage is a religious institution..."

Really? So those who marry in a courthouse and have a judge do the ceremony are not really married?

Sorry to burst your bubble, Karlclair, but marriage is actually TWO institutions. There is the religious institution and then the state institution. The issue isn't really with those religious nuts denying love between two people, but with the state institutions denying people civil liberties.

Whatever happened to religious freedom? Why would Obama have to be a Christian to acknowledge marriage as a religious institution? Marriage is stereotyped as a religious institution! Just because you want to do something your way does not mean that someone else has to do that too!

Obama is duplicitous. People start to speculate about those who change their statements and beliefs.

Would you mind repeating that sentence? But this time try substituting Romney for Obama.

Sound familiar?

How is his statement incorrect? With credible, peer-reviewed studies, preferably.

Tell you what Nibor, I'll go easy on you; forget the citations. Just tell me using reason and logic how his statement is incorrect.

Tell you what Nibor, I'll go easy on you; forget the citations. Just tell me using reason and logic how his statement is incorrect.

Cue sound effect of crickets and wind rustling the leaves.

Uh sounds good but lets breakdown your little simple minded fox news/ rush limbaugh talking points. His record, tell me what in his record you are refering to: could it be his leadership of the democratic party, his leadership as CIC? The economy is turned around, maybe not as quick as we'd all like but unemployment is at 8.1%, And yes that doesn't include the underemployed or those that aren't looking but the rate has never included that so its still the same comparison to other administrations. I recall republicans saying that would be an acceptable number but since its been reached Romney moved the goal line to 4% and 500,000 new jobs a month, and please tell me what his plan is to avccomplish this and don't spout that retarded bullcrap romey says,' do the opposite of Obama" yeah cause thats BRILLIANT. And as to gay rights: he actually has passed laws and pushed policies where he could such as repealing don't ask don't tell so that homosexuals who serve this country can do so without having to hide, the federal government allows same sex couples to be on their partners' benifits packages such as health/dental/vision insurance. sounds like legal actions and a backbone to me.

Hot you are apparently not familiar with the Man-Boy love association. They have training manuals that blow away your premise.

Hot in Miami is correct. Dozens of formal studies have been done over the last 3 decades, and there's no difference whatsoever between children raised by gay couples and children raised by straight couples.

The other thing being missed in this discussion is that homosexuality is genetic - it is not a choice and it cannot be taught or learned.

it's time to legalize it nationally.

Hot you are apparently not familiar with the Man-Boy love association. They have training manuals that blow away your premise.

Tell us all about it DB, since YOU seem to be so well versed as to what the organization is all about.

Go on, get out your manual and tell us. You do have a copy, right? Or is it still packed away with your copy of "The Gay Agenda"?

Mackie - Good Grief - did the Gay Army invade your town?

Mackie" How have gays taken over Wells, Maine?

How have gays taken over Well, you ask???

Well...It was just ghastly. First came the pink convertibles with leopard print seat covers, tres gauche. Then, OMG, if that wasn't bad enough, pairs of people of the same sex, holding hands and gushing over how quaint the town was decided to actually move there and open bed and breakfasts, charming antique shops and boutiques with a nautical theme. Names like 'Gay Pirates and Blades of the Caribbean,' (Johnny was a mite too 'drag' in the Cap. Jack role, wouldn't you agree?) Then, the restaurants all went vegan and added items like tofu and spring greens and green tea, ugh. Gag me with a spoon... tofu. The bars actually cleaned up and drinks with funny ingredients were added to the beer, beer and more beer former bar stock.

Everyone is hunkering down, waiting for the next onslaught of gays, we are prepared though, all the guys are wearing flannel shirts and boots to insure that no one mistakes us for being gay....oh, wait, don't gay guys dress like that too???

1. They've lobbied to have the name officially changed to the "Fabulous" Wells, Maine.
2. Fashion faux pas like wearing black and brown together are prohibited by law.
3. Appltinis are hereby known as "so 2001"

Please stop being so paranoid. Gay people have always been here…. Or there…..basically everywhere, their acceptance is a good thing. Your bigotry will hopefully die with your generation.

Heh, I've found that whenever gay families move into an area they clean it up pretty significantly.

So pray tell, Mackie, what sort of horrible things has the extension of tolerance to gay people done to your town?

So much hate, so little sense. Let me guess: your homophobia came from spending one too many nights in jail? Nightmares of what society would be like if gays got the same rights as you? They are not a different species, they are human beings same as you or me or anyone else on this post. And what's up with turning the "sexual orientation" issue into a racial issue? I bet your ancestors took that land from someone else, so who are you to judge someone by where they came from?

While you have every right to your opinion, some are better kept to yourself because they have no weight in the issue at hand. Just a bunch of senseless stupidity venting its anger at those who do not deserve such treatment.

Shame on you!

Mackie: You forgot to throw in all the ambulance rescue sqads they've taken over.

Gays have taken over Wells, Maine that MY ancestors settled 600 years ago!

Whose ancestors did they kill to settle there?

How does it work for you, Sir! Untouchable as you are with your ancestors in Africa intact?

You do know only his paternal ancestors are from Africa, right? And WTH are you ranting about here, anyway?

Easy for you to speak on since your ancestors did not come directly from England.

No, just the white half.

Gays have taken over Wells, Maine that MY ancestors settled 600 years ago!

I also hear the gay crime rate has skyrocketed DRAMATICALLY in Wells! Why, only last week three gay men brutally attacked a woman in her own home. The first two held her down while the third one did her hair and redecorated the living room! Oh, the HORROR!!!

Obama calls God a liar: He will surely pay the price and the first thing is to remove him as President of The United States and may be God will have mercy on the rest of us. But I doubt it, America has become a cesspool of immorality and God will not stand for it.

Matthew 19:4-6

King James Version (KJV)

⁴ And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

⁵ And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

⁶ Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Jerry: So what if Obama calls "God" a liar? Who is your "God"? Last I checked, America has a little CORE VALUE called RELIGIOUS FREEDOM and FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Those are just a couple of things which make America such a unique and desirable country. America allows ALL religions freedom of practice, so long as they are humane, without being ruled by any one (or more) of them. "Bible said so" arguments have no place in political or academic arguments and debates. The bible can only be applied to your own religious institutions. It has no validity anywhere else.

It seems that you want YOUR religion to be in charge of how this country is run. Sorry to disappoint, but that is not how America works (though many people are desperately trying to change that for the worse). If you don't like that, then leave. No one will stop you.

You do realize that the economy is improving pretty drastically, right? I'd have thought that it was the LAST thing the teabaggers would want to talk about.

So what's Mitt got to say about the economy? Other than that it's all Obama's fault, that is? Oh, that's right. Mittens is running on the anti gay marriage platform. So much for the economy.

Obozo does NOT care about the constitution. Typical of most Marxists.

you're a marxist.......... and a poopface.

Sure Bea. Care to give us any examples?

Bea,

Why did Professor Barack Obama choose to teach Constitutional Law back in Illinois at Columbia U?

Show us fact-checked substantiation for your claims that he is a "Marxist," and that he is 'typical' of 'most Marxists' ...Do you even know what a Marxist is, and how do they live?

And in comparison to the President, how much and how accurately do YOU know about the U.S. Constitution? If you were really emotionally mature enough and really cared for what the Constitution means for Americans, I don't think you would be wasting your time casting false aspersions and creating prejudicial snap judgements like that.

And why the obsession with the Constitution, as if it was the only important document in the entire human universe that mattered? Ever heard of the Bill of Rights, the UN Declaration of Human Rights, The Magna Carta, The Code of Hammurabi, the Works of Shakespeare, the Gettysburg Address, Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica etc. etc.?

We suspect you're better than that.

Bea, you don't even know what a Marxist is, do you?

Bea's not 100% sure, but she thinks it has something to do with toy manufacturers. Either that, or someone named Groucho...

I'm paying $4.49 a gallon for gas, and have to drive 50 miles to find gas under 4$ a gallon. I'm paying $4.38 a gallon for milk. Over $3 for a lousy loaf of bread.

Cheryl honey - hang tight the med cart is on it's way as we speak...

In the meantime, can you clarify how your screed is relevant to the topic of gay parenting, little girl?

Focus - baby - focus! lol

And there is our gal Feisty, staying focused like a good little minion.

Seriously Fiesty all those things that Cheryl talks about are just silly diversions from the awesomeness that is Obama.

Plus we should ignore Europe, the debt and the taxmogeddon that is coming.

You know, like in you fine state. How is Quinn's grand plan to raise taxes working out for you?

Feisty Redhead

Apparently you don't look at the prices when you use your govenment issued food card, but why would you. What do you care, it isn't your money you are spending. Money that had you go out and work for.

Talk about focusing; since you know so much about Obama when he is going to order the Justice Department to sue the States for Civil Rights violations? When is he going to man up and stand behind his words with action rather than just a bunch of hot air?

Apparently you don't look at the prices when you use your govenment issued food card,

Yeah - cause my Gubment issued food card buys gas...

Go sit down junior - you are no where near Feisty worthy little buddy!

OK Feisty,

Let's focus shall we? What we have here, is the President of the United States and his followers attempting to force society to officially sanction aberrant behavior, to wit, a lifestyle whereby one man inserts his penis in the anus of another man for pleasure. Say "gay" all you want, but that is just deflection.

The gay lifestyle is abnormal and aberrant. If two consenting adults wish to partake, great! This is America. Do whatever you wish in the privacy of your own home. However, the US Constitution is silent on the subject of marriage. Therefore its definition and application is left up to the states. That means each state is free to define marriage as it sees fit. Period.

For your further edification, society has laws, mores and norms that promote the things society wishes to promote. When the society in a particular state wishes to promote same sex marriage, it will change its definition. Hope this helps.

Fiesty

You like to suck in Obama's words , so here are some for you. Just don't gag when your taking the big ones down the throat. These words are as pertinent today as the day Obama spoke them. You can comprehend the English language can't you. If you can't, I'm sure you can find a child to explain them to you.

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies.

And the cost of our debt is one of the fastest growing expenses in the Federal budget. This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and States of critical investments in infrastructure like bridges, ports, and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on.

Every dollar we pay in interest is a dollar that is not going to investment in America's priorities. Instead, interest payments are a significant tax on all Americans–a debt tax that Washington doesn't want to talk about. If Washington were serious about honest tax relief in this country, we would see an effort to reduce our national debt by returning to responsible fiscal policies.

Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that "the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.

I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit.

Sen. Barack Hussein Obama, (Senate – March 16, 2006). Page S2238 of the Congressional Records for the 109^th Congress.

The gay lifestyle is abnormal and aberrant

Keep that open mind there Mikey - thankfully you & the rest of the bigots are a dying breed!

America is going to move FORWARD with or without you stupid comments! ☺

MIke

You are so uninformed it a sin. The presidents job is to uphold and defend the Constitution. Your civil right, my civil right and any other persons civil rights he must uphold and defend according to the oath of office he took.

He didn't take an oath to uphold any social or religious beliefs that are contrary to the civil rights of individuals that are protected by the Constitution.

So to remind you and educate you, we are governed by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and no laws will be enacted to impede the provision of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Grow up and stop acting like a child with the nonsense you post.

Apparently the President forgot to push the magic lower the global market price for gasoline" button hidden under his desk, and that means he's totally to blame.

what happened,

Please tell me where in the US Constitution, marriage is discussed. Clue for you. It isn't. That means it is left to "the states respectively or the people." That's middle school civics. The states have the right to define marriage as they see fit, absent an amendment to the US Constitution. I hope I was able to clear that up for you. As a favor to you, I'd be willing to screen your posts before you actually put them online. That way, I could check them for grammar, syntax and logical rigor, thus preventing your embarrassment.

Mike have Mercy...

But keep up your great posts !

God Bless........... JMJ

Here are two examples off the top of my head, Mike:

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

Article IV, Section 1 of the United States Constitution - Violated by states who refuse to recognize same-sex marriages from other states

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 1, Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Violated by all states that do not allow same-sex marriage

You might want to consider retaking those middle school civics.

Mike

You really don't know what you're talk about do you.. Do you have any concept of the meaning of the words "civil right" and how it pertains to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Apparently you missed that Civil class or fell asleep in it. The State are prohibited from enacting any law that is contrary to the provisions in the Constitution.

That was what the Civil War was about at its beginning. States rights vs. federal rights. The southern states were afraid that slavery would be abolished under the civil right provisions of the Constitution. Since you don't know who won that war, I will let you keep guessing.

Same sex marriage comes under the same Constitutional protections that the slavery got because of that war.

Keep aurguing States rights over Constitutional protections and you will keep making a fool of yourself.

Blame the media instead of Obama. Gay marriage is all those people want to talk about so that's all they are going to show. People who want Obama to take a stance and make speeches over this subject are wasting not only his time, but yours. Since it is getting close to election time, he feels that he has to switch his attention to whatever they make the issues out to be.

Next, blame Romney. He is making just as big a deal out of this as Obama, if not more so because he has such conservative religious nuts pulling his strings (he is a puppet through and through). Of course Obama has to fight back, that is the point of such exchanges and the point of elections (or so it seems these days). If one group spouts one thing, the other must respond. Romney keeps trying to inflame this issue and direct Obama's (and our) attention away from the issues at hand (economy, debt, rising costs) because he thinks it's a good idea and what the majority of people want to hear.

Lastly, Obama must pay attention to this issue because prohibiting and discriminating against gays and gay marriage is a violation of civil liberties and thus the Constitution. If our own President can't defend the basic rights which gives America and Americans their freedom, then how can he call himself our leader? While the economy, debt, and rising costs are all bad problems, outright violations of America's basic values (the Constitution) are far worse than anything else.

So, while we are frustrated with how slow the economy is recovering, it is far better than it was when Obama first started. While the debt is outstanding, he is trying to and proposing ways to fix it (which may also lead to decreasing costs all around). Obama is working to preserve our pride as a free nation.

Obama didn't need to run his mouth off, but now that he did, he is obligated to follow through. He must order the Justice Department to sue the States that have banned same sex marriage for civil rights violations.

The question is, is Obama pandering to both sides of the issue or is he going to honor his oath of office and force the States to comply.

My money is he's just pandering for votes. He's proved that his words are as meaningless as a bag of hot air with his actions screaming volumes over them.

And Romney has done the exact same thing. So, does that mean both presidential candidates are meaningless pawns blowing hot air to extract votes from the people? Is there no truth to the words being said? At least Obama has pulled through on some of his promises, such as improving the economy.

Mike Mike Mike ... so sad. From your post

Please tell me where in the US Constitution, marriage is discussed. Clue for you. It isn't. That means it is left to "the states respectively or the people." That's middle school civics. The states have the right to define marriage as they see fit, absent an amendment to the US Constitution.

Check out Loving v Virginia (1967), a Supreme Court decision abut a state's right to regulate marriage. The ruling stated that due to the fourteenth amendment's prohibitions, individual states have no power to regulate marriage. It said "marriage is a civil right" that should be "available to everyone equally". It said states cannot restrict marriage such that it includes or excludes only certain groups.

The lawsuit was against the state of Virginia's law prohibiting interracial marriage.

The necessary "amendment" is already there in the Constitution.

Kaseno50....don't forget all the trips to the ER...to have Gerbil's removed from thier anus...and curling irons...and anything else they can stick up thier butt....

.to have Gerbil's removed from thier anus...and curling irons...and anything else they can stick up thier butt....

You sound like you know what you're talking about from experience there Dixie... eh... sweetie!

And there is the problem right there: When it comes to raising children, you immediately think of two men or woman kissing, perhaps your own parents kissing? Is it just all the inbreeding and molestation that makes it so that you can't separate raising children with sex? Surely stupidity alone can't be the reason.

And that is why you are/would be a horrible parent and every child's nightmare.

Fiesty

You forgot to ask Dixie what she uses for pleasure. Are Gerbils and curling irons what she starts with or ends with?

Seeing two fat people kissing makes me a little sick, but that's no reason to deny them their constitutional liberties.

@dixie girl#17.1: I'm from dixie. Do I know you? Kinda sounded familiar when you said: "anything else they can stick up their butt".

Is the Gerbil national anthem "I wish I were in Dixie"?

Kasen

You are not alone.

Hang in there. Deviate, perverted behavior will destroy America............ JMJ

No Just Bob, Obama is doing that all by himself with his never ending, ever growing debt crisis that has pushed the debt ceiling to $16.7 trillion.

RedDevPS - funniest post thus far! ROFLMAO

2 men kissing makes me what to vomit !

I'm guessing you don't have the same reaction when it's two women, now, do you?

Lots of people believe in God, but don't limit their views to some grotesque, incestuous 'Adam & Eve' fiction. For some, God is the sum of all consciousness, aligns with logic, science, and reality. Not some fairy tale, witch burning notions based on millennia old religious doctrine: for that, you can move to Iran.

I'd be more inclined to read your nonsense if you used paragraphs to split it up.

Probably because "gods" have no bearing whatsoever on our secular nation's government or laws.

I don't give a damn what the bible says about gay people. The bible is wrong on slavery (Ephesians 6:5), it's wrong on child abuse (proverbs), it's wrong on women's rights, and it's wrong on gay rights. The bible is NOT morality.

The bible is wrong on slavery (Ephesians 6:5), it's wrong on child abuse (proverbs), it's wrong on women's rights, and it's wrong on gay rights.

Praise Jay-sus - now should we talk about bible sanctioned rape, multiple marriages, genocide, and abortion, and that abomination of all abominations, eating shell fish.

I'd be more inclined to read your nonsense if you used paragraphs to split it up.

Why? It would still be nonsense.

Matthew 19:4-6

King James Version (KJV)

⁴ And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

⁵ And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

⁶ Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Ivy League yuppie Barack Obama, a non-veteran, queered the US military. Payback occurs Nov. 6.

Jerry: Please use relevant materials in this academic argument. The bible is only relevant when concerning religion, not state or political matters (which is what this gay marriage issue is about).

Ranger: Having opinions is fine, but please, keep that one to yourself. You contribute nothing to this discussion. We have enough people doing that already. Come back when you are ready to make an argument or contribute in a relevant way to the discussion at hand.

I thought republicans were all about personal responsibility, you know not blaming others for their conditions in life but to work hard to better themselves. I recall republicans saying Obama can't blame Bush for the conditions of his administration but here we are finding the "republicans" whining and crying and blaming Obama. Hey if you're frustrated by your life quit your belly aching get off the computer and make it better,If you're angry get some help but it is nobody else's issue. The reason I left the republican party for the independents is this crap, there are no REAL REPUBLICANS left in that party's leadership or power positions, they base their politics on race/religion/guns instead of liberty/freedom/ small government/strong defense (which is very different from reckless offense).

More important question: who cares?

EVEN more important question: why should that have any bearing on a person's constitutional rights?

Whose Constitutional rights ?

Pervertion, deviate relations aren't covered by the Constitution.

Eat, drink, and be merry, Toaster. Hey let's go the way of the Romans. Nothing is wrong, do whatever you want.

Actually, you do what suits you, but there is right and wrong. Liberal? Gay? JMJ

Americans' constitutional rights, Bob:

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

Article IV, Section 1 of the United States Constitution - Violated by states who refuse to recognize same-sex marriages from other states

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 1, Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Violated by all states that do not allow same-sex marriage

And just for historical accuracy, Rome began to fall only after the adoption of Christianity as its state religion. Something you might want to ponder.

I LOVE how so many of the RWNJs reference the Romans when citing how homosexual depravity leads to the downfall of society. The funny thing is most probably havent had a World History 101 course that would tell them that the state religion of the Roman Empire at the time accepted as "the fall" was, and had been for 200 years... CHRISTIANITY!

Oh Toast/EMDF - now you've done it. The RWNJs of the planet will refuse to understand that the dive into, and the reign during the dark ages, was inter-related to the rise of Christianity. Breaking out of the dark ages was the Renaissance period, where science proved that the Christianity dogma of the times that were held over the masses was at best, false.

The other little historical tidbit that they hate to reflect upon is that it was Islam that helped usher in the Renaissance period. At that time, Islam was interested in enlightenment, education, science and history, everything anathema to the Christians of that period, and the Evangelicals (aka RWNJs) of today.

What will Daddy tell the little girl when the door opens accidently, and one daddy is hovering over the back end of the other ("mommy").

You Libs are destroying OUR Christian Judeo Heritage, and Our Nation with it.

What Mr. Obama has done is neither Christian or Muslim. I am switching back to the GOP, and will have to take my chances. Millions of Independents will certainly do the same.

You go Mr. Obama; court those deviate, perverted voters............. JMJ

Sorry to disappoint, Bob, but I am both conservative and a republican - something that would normally be called a right wing troll on this site.

In no way am I a liberal, but I am a realist at the end of the day.

You call me a lib, and talk about our judeo christian heritage -fair enough.

You talk about "our nation".

Tell me then - and I do ask this honestly - at what point was the judeo christian faith or faiths the only acceptable world view in "our nation"?

Another honest question - is your view of freedom so limited as to think that anything that goes against your religious views something that should not be allowed?

Sir, you have every right to your opinion, and I will defend that right with everything I have. On the other hand, please accept that your view is not the only valid view.

You read up farther, Bro.

You wish to hang with the Libs, the Gays, the Perverts, you go right ahead.

I fought for OUR Country so that you could enjoy you enlightened position, and I mine.

I must admit that there are those out there, that would cast you as neither a Conservative or a Republican.

Everything is gray. There is no right or wrong? Happy trolling....... JMJ

Our Country was almost destroyed by Christians that believed that Slavery was the Will of God. That why many States joined together and fought the bloodiest war in this country's history just to uphold that religious believe that slavery was the Will of God.

You religious zealots have leaned nothing from the teaching of your faith and history. What you consider as the Will of God and a sin are not always what you think they are.

Its also a sin to forget Gods teaching that you should treat other as you would want them to treat you..

You my friend are NO Conservative OR Republican....

Thank God Obama has lost the White Independent vote... The Election is already over.

Pray tell, Professor Bob, what harm has the extension of tolerance to homosexuals done to the country. Something credible and peer-reviewed, if you'd be so kind.

Something credible and peer-reviewed, if you'd be so kind.

Peer reviewed is what "-studies" majors use instead of hard fact to determine something.

So basically... "Sorry Toasty, I don't have any credible sources to back up my statement."

Bob - I was neither insulting nor derogatory to you.

You have chosen to make this derogatory - that is your choice.

Allow me then to respond in kind. I also served this country, proudly. It cost me everything that I held dear at the time. If you wish to question this, then fair enough. I served during a time of war, and lost friends in it. Do not fly the flag of being against this country against me.

I fought because I believe that everyone has a thing called freedom - not defined by you or by me.

Answer me this, since you abandoned my previous honest questions.

In your religious christian zealoutry, you believe in the Bible, yes?

I present to you the book of Leviticus - if you dont follow it, you are not a true christian. Now shut up about religion, you hypocrite. I am a conservative, and a republican - if you cant get your head around that, this is your issue, not mine.

I say take your actions seriously, and your words, and live by them - that is called personal responsibility - the core of both conservatism and republican thought - can you say as much, or do you just spout your religious talking points?

Thomas Wardoo - youcan say what you will, but you are wrong in this - I believe in conservative values - the traditional ones, that dont revolve around silly social issues such as this.

Accept that this is not 1900, and move along.

So, Thomas, "my friend", try to wrap your head around this - I intensely dislike the entitlement generation, and all it stands for, but in this one case, the President got it right.

Is that not what republicans were really about - what is right? Freedom, and and the ability to make a life for yourself if you worked at it?

Hey Toaster,

Gays have been doing whatever they want for eons. Fine.

Marriage, No. Children NEED a mother and a father, not deviate, perverted sexual example. JMJ

Notalkingpoints is right !

Did you say you fought ? If so, on whose side ?

There are the Commandments, there is right and wrong whether or not you see everything in gray.

This is NOT a silly issue. Obama has gone too far. You want to vote for him go ahead. You're not a troll; I apologize. Hey wait asecond, you said it not me ......... JMJ

I grew up without a father, Bob, and I turned out just fine. I've never been arrested, never done illicit drugs, and never gotten anyone pregnant. I'm educated, active in politics, and am currently serving in the finest fighting force the world has ever seen to serve my country. A child doesn't need any specific number or combination of parents. They just need a family that loves them, cares for them, and will do whatever it takes to give them the best life possible.

Now Bob, would you kindly stop trying to change the subject and defend your own arguments?

Bob -

I tried to be respectful, but you insist.

I fought on your side, believe it or not you unimaginative, illiterate POS.

My friends died so you could spout.

Try me on religion again - and again I say you are a hypocrite - Leviticus - do you follow it?

To be clear, I would vote for a pet rock before I vote for Obama.

Commandments - spare me - and just try to tell me that you have never broken one of them - and the next time you wnat to question my service or my patriotism, I invite you to come talk to me in person.

Oh, thats right, zealots like you only feel comfortable when its behind closed doors

Well Toaster,

That certainly was a mouthful. Back in my day one of the finest fighting forces was the 101st Airborne Division, and the CIB was the most widely respected field decorations. In 'Nam we were shackled with the labels baby killers, fraggers, etc. and did none of these.

I respect that you had no father, that you turned out fine, and that I understand are serving ? I work with Wounded Warriors, as well as OEF, and OIF returnees that have a wide range of serious issues as well as wounds. I am very proud of this. Many in America have no idea how good they have it, none.

Dad FOUGHT in WWII, and received several battle stars in Italy. I had two wonderful parents, a Mother, and a Father. I am confident that you wished you could have had a fathers guidance.

You see I am "old school", traditonal, with a strong belief that I earned the right to believe what I believe.

You Fight ? I fought. If you are in the Afghan mountains, I wish you God's guidance and protection. You have my gratitude.

You will not sway me.

Non talking, go back to the bottle, you're a disgrace............ JMJ

Tell you what Bob, I'll let your little tirade speak for itself.

What is wrong with you people who keep referring to religious and state/federal institutions as one and the same? Have you forgotten America's basic value of "separation of church and state"?! It is because of crap like this that those two institutions were separated in the first place! You religious nuts need to stick to your own kind and the same thing goes for you politicians! Shame on all of you!

@notalkingpoints - a conservative I admire. Well done and am looking forward to a libbie slap down or two from you. We need both points of the spectrum on the 'real' social/economical issues. We have one hell of a mess to clean up, but that can only be cleaned up with advances from both sides. Funny part, we all agree on Simpson/Bowles. Why can't that be the starting point? Tell you what, I'll push for Simpson, you push for Bowles. Let's meet in the middle, and see where we go from there. Of course, being a libbie, I'll be open to taking Bowles and you taking Simpson. Cheers Mate!!

What will Daddy tell the little girl when the door opens accidently, and one daddy is hovering over the back end of the other (mommy

What do straight parents tell their kids when this happens?

Children NEED a mother and a father,

So you're going to support the amendment that makes single parenthood illegal?

Hey,

We just had Mother's Day. Granted there is diversity in a gay household. This year, I'll play Mommy, next year it can be your turn.

And what about little boys when the door opens, and "daddy" is butt mounted on "mommy". How perverted.

Non talker, you forgot about Sodom and Gemorrah, so don't spout your carefully chosen verse.

Abortion is murder, and gay marriage is an abomination...........

Hey Toaster, guess what ? I can deal with it. Go back to your business, geterdone. JMJ

Toasty: "I'm educated, active in politics, and am currently serving in the finest fighting force the world has ever seen to serve my country." Now how can you be serving in the finest fighting force in the world and be on here every day, at all hours, posting your liberal beliefs?

Did anyone ever stop to consider the fact that kids can't tell the difference between anal sex and doggy-style? Much less understand what is actually going on (at least the young ones)? Kids may be traumatized by walking in on their parents having sex no matter if the sex is heterosexual or homosexual. So, this argument is pretty stupid when considering the facts.

I have this magic thing called a "lunch break," Thirty. I occasionally have these mysterious holidays known as "weekends," too. And for the times in between I also have this evil demon-sorcery tablet the preachers call a "smart phone." Together, these magical spells combine to form my only hobby: Newsvine. Now why don't you put on your big boy pants and actually address the arguments put forward?

Toasty, yeah right. I'm really believing that you are currently serving in an elite fighting force. Why don't you get your panties unraveled, stow your smart-assed remarks and actually have an argument that isn't based on your faux emotion.

Toaster, you appear to be evading what unit your with, or assigned too.

As far as weekends, it is doubtful that you'd be granted weekends in any forward combat unit ??

Stop hiding. What unit, and where ?

And if you're gay; it OK, but not marriage. JMJ

Thirty:

"An argument that isn't based on faux emotions"? I could say the same to you.

Bob:

Ever heard of "it's none of your business"? You seem to be obsessed with invading other people's privacy. Why should Toasty tell you anything?

States have no right to deny the civil right of marriage to anyone. It is obvious you have never read Loving vs. Virginia. That court case ruled "states cannot restrict marriage and it should be available to everyone equally". The states who restricted marriage based upon sexual preference (this is called discrimination) are breaking the law. The only reason the new law-breaking-laws have not been brought down yet is because few people have the time, money, and courage needed to build a case against those laws.

Koza DEreza

There is no evidence to support you post. Grow up and stop acing like a child with the nonsense you post.

Because you seem to be uninformed, there is evidence where a child who grows up in a traditional marriage with abuse will have difficulties for the rest of their life.

what happened -- You have it backwards, and while I might say you should grow up, it is more a question of your intelligence and lack of education.. You are simply ignorant and biased, which is par for the LGBT course.

Again, for your benefit, a child deserves to be raised by a mother and father. You can ask the black community how those fatherless families are working out. The interest of the child must come first...and that means having both a mother and father role model, which two gay parents preclude. It is not your right to deny that to the child, just because you want to advance your LGBT agenda.

And as I stated, it is a form of indoctrination, which following Richard Dawkin's logic, which has much to it, is a form of child abuse.

Obama the child abuse president. Rather sad.

All of this garbage about homosexual marriage being a "right". It is not a "right"...it is a CHOICE. What they want is SPECIAL rights. They have the right to marry, just like I do...No one is denying them this right. Speaking of Rights....doesn't a CHILD have a right to A MOTHER and/or a FATHER??? People don't mind shoving this garbage of on children, without regard to their well being, they obviously have NO rights.

@pastor65 Yep, being gay is a choice. Some reasons people "choose" to be gay include:

1. Getting beat up in school

2. Running the risk of getting disowned by your parents

3. Getting told throughout your life you are an evil animal and deserve to burn in Hell

4. Facing discrimination and harassment throughout your life

Science, psychology, and common sense tell us being gay is NOT a choice. You are incredibly stupid and hateful if you insist that being gay is a choice. It's funny that you call yourself "pastor" because your ignorance and hate supersede your faith.

Will Rogers -- You should not accuse others of being hateful and stupid when the LGBT position is exactly that with regard to the raising of children.

Science is not standing still, although, SADLY, the position of the LGBT community is.
As a general rule, the LGBT ignores anything that may disagree with their agenda, and simply cherry pick data.

“Various theories have proposed differing sources for sexual
orientation.…However, many scientists share the view that sexual
orientation is shaped for most people at an early age through complex
interactions of biological, psychological and social factors.”
(American Psychological Association., 1998)

Gene expression is dynamic and depends dynamically upon the environment. i.e., it is not usually strictly Mendelian.

Anyway, I will cut to the chase. Gays should be happy that there is a non-genetic component to sexual orientation...If a gene(s) could be identified for homosexuality, then the possiblity of abuse of that knowledge by those who opposed gays becomes obvious...

Koza, what child did you talk to who said they hated having gay parents (perhaps the ones who don't have gay parents and have been influenced by social stigmas)? I bet those same kids would say they hate homework and working for an allowance.

As for your "genes depend dynamically upon the environment", maybe gays are around because there are too many people? Maybe gays are "God's" or "Nature's" way of limiting the human population, though I say that loosely. Even so, that doesn't stop gays from having or adopting children. Science is amazing in that respect.

Children come out the same whether raised by homosexual or heterosexual parents. There is no difference and there are studies to back up what I say.

So please, enlighten me with a valid argument about how being gay is bad for humanity and for you, in particular.