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Subscribe to RSSGeorge W. Bush pushed for a federal ban on same-sex marriage during his 2004 re-election run. But Bush has since said he favors civil unions, and now, days after President Obama announced his support for same-sex marriage, his pollster from that race is recommending Republicans come around on same-sex marriage and gay rights.
In a memo penned Friday and which made the rounds this weekend, Jan R. van Lohuizen writes, in part, “As people who promote personal responsibility, family values, commitment and stability, and emphasize freedom and limited government we have to recognize that freedom means freedom for everyone. This includes the freedom to decide how you live and to enter into relationships of your choosing, the freedom to live without excessive interference of the regulatory force of government."
Memorandum
From: Jan R. van Lohuizen
Date: 05/11/12
Re: Same Sex Marriage
Background: in view of this week’s news on the same sex marriage issue, here is a summary of recent survey findings on same sex marriage:
1. Support for same sex marriage has been growing and in the last few years support has grown at an accelerated rate with no sign of slowing down. A review of public polling shows that up to 2009 support for gay marriage increased at a rate of 1% a year. Starting in 2010 the change in the level of support accelerated to 5% a year. The most recent public polling shows supporters of gay marriage outnumber opponents by a margin of roughly 10% (for instance: NBC / WSJ poll in February / March: support 49%, oppose 40%).
2. The increase in support is taking place among all partisan groups. While more Democrats support gay marriage than Republicans, support levels among Republicans are increasing over time. The same is true of age: younger people support same sex marriage more often than older people, but the trends show that all age groups are rethinking their position.
3. Polling conducted among Republicans show that majorities of Republicans and Republican leaning voters support extending basic legal protections to gays and lesbians. These include majority Republican support for:
a. Protecting gays and lesbians against being fired for reasons of sexual orientation
b. Protections against bullying and harassment
c. Repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell.
d. Right to visit partners in hospitals
e. Protecting partners against loss of home in case of severe medical emergencies or death
f. Legal protection in some form for gay couples whether it be same sex marriage or domestic partnership (only 29% of Republicans oppose legal recognition in any form).
Recommendation: A statement reflecting recent developments on this issue along the following lines:
“People who believe in equality under the law as a fundamental principle, as I do, will agree that this principle extends to gay and lesbian couples; gay and lesbian couples should not face discrimination and their relationship should be protected under the law. People who disagree on the fundamental nature of marriage can agree, at the same time, that gays and lesbians should receive essential rights and protections such as hospital visitation, adoption rights, and health and death benefits.
Other thoughts / Q&A:
Follow up to questions about affirmative action: “This is not about giving anyone extra protections or privileges, this is about making sure that everyone – regardless of sexual orientation – is provided the same protections against discrimination that you and I enjoy.”
Why public attitudes might be changing: “As more people have become aware of friends and family members who are gay, attitudes have begun to shift at an accelerated pace. This is not about a generational shift in attitudes, this is about people changing their thinking as they recognize their friends and family members who are gay or lesbian.”
Conservative fundamentals: “As people who promote personal responsibility, family values, commitment and stability, and emphasize freedom and limited government we have to recognize that freedom means freedom for everyone. This includes the freedom to decide how you live and to enter into relationships of your choosing, the freedom to live without excessive interference of the regulatory force of government."
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......." Hey wait a minute". "If we read these polls correctly, there are a lot of votes we could get if we change our stance and support gay civil unions for the gay community". This is the obvious reason that Jan and the GOP want to change their objective views on gay marriage.
The republican party always seems to be a step behind the democrats and always out of step with what is right for Americans.
Great! Now Romney has another opportunity to flip-flop.
......." Hey wait a minute" is right!
And all this time I was under the impression we were NOT allowed to utter the name 'Bush'...
Hope you had a good weekend Brian!
And all this time I was under the impression we were NOT allowed to utter the name 'Bush'...
I suppose we can only mention Bush when it may favor the GOP agenda.
Hope you had a good weekend Brian!
I had a fantastic weekend my dear and I hope you did as well.
being a step behind flip flopping is a good thing
OMG - the GOP's small heads would explode if the party suddenly began to accept same sex marriage. What would they do with all the hate??? Oh wait - they always have something to hate!
Coming from someone who thinks back doors are the preferred entry.
Anyho - onward folks, who would have guessed that conservatives hate capitalism. With the average wedding costing over 25grand, one would think conservatives would be rushing to open their back and front doors to gay weddings, all to worship their proverbial God, the dollar.
Considering that these right-wing freaks only make up around 3% of the population, they have another 97% to vent their hate on, meaning there are plenty of groups out there for them to hate.
It should'not come as a surprise 'hate groups' have incresed by over 700% the last 3 1/2 years...
Homeschooling 101 - there isn't an issue that can't be solved without a Remington and God to back me up.
The Republicans goal is to take advantage of this issue twice---first they used same sex marriage to turn out their vote in the early 2000s by having measures against it on the ballot. Now that the national opinion has changed, they will jump on the band wagon for same sex marriages and find some other issue like "voter fraud" or "stand your ground" to do the same thing.
"How would you like your eggs, Mr. Romney?"
"Over easy, definitely over easy!" "And throw in some pancakes as well."
Tony,
Don't you mean waffles? lol
With a heaping side of some pork product?
Speaking of.. your old buddy Rob in MA decided to pay a visit over the weekend. He had some awful nice things to say about you Feisty. Then he went on a rant about not being the first to post, yada yada yada. I jumped in his s--t and told him to quit his bitc-ing. I see that he's been booted already. They never learn, do they?
That's why you're the master :-)
in your case, that would be goose stepping.
Why am I not suprised the little worm crawled out of his hole! lol
No doubt - maybe that was why my ears were burning! ;o)
Thank you my friend - any time I can return the favor give me a hollar!
I love the smell of desperation oozing from the right wing nuts!
Will do! Have a great evening. Gotta watch my Detroit Tigers play your Chicago White Sox.
Oh Hey Feisty! You're back. Nice to see our friendly liberal friend defending injustice again. When even Republicans think something is necessary to happen progressive socially, It should probably happen, don't you guys think? Well, I got $50 that isn't going to happen because the right wing extremists still exist... Shame.
...moderation in everything.
Pragmatism is supposed to be the trademark of conservatism - unfortunately there are not many true conservatives out there -
too many extremists.
Ron Indiana Romney compared to Obama at flip flopping, Romney is just a child compared to Obama's professional show. Obama 's only accomplishment since he has been office, Is he holds the record on people he has blamed for things he is responsible for.. King Obama or should I now say Kinky Obama
So when its Obama flip-flopping on Gay Marriage its "evolving", but let a republican flip flop on Gay Marriage its flip flopping. Obama came out for Gay Marriage simply to get votes. As Joe Scarbourough so clearly put it, Obama said "nothing" except that Gay Marriage should be left up to individual states. Anyone that bothered to listen to the "smartest man on the entire planet, oops I meant universe", didn't do anything that great, he said it should be up to individual states, he said nothing other than to restate how things already are. It would be interesting to see what he has to say about DEMS call for a law making it a federal law. I'll be waiting to see what he thinks about that.
President Obama leads the way...the world follows!
repukes should catch up in a 100 years or so
GO Obaaahhhhma 2012
Actually Joe Biden led the way. Obama leading from behind again?
Ok, couldn't help. I watched SNL this week with Joe Biden pouting in his room, complaining that Obama got all the credit. Skit included Bush, Will Ferrell, coming out of the closet. Was stuck there for 3 1/2 years chasing a butterfly.
Seriously though, despite all of Bush's many, many, many faults Bush actually supports civil unions. Bush attempted a guest worker program and immigration reform. Bush at time attempted to be a "compassionate conservative." Now the GOP look at these admirable Bush stances and attempts with utter contempt.
Hysterical! Wish I'd seen this!
Bush does a lot of work without any fanfare. He is very dedicated to his Military Service Initiative, which is aimed at supporting military families and raising awareness of the struggles our wounded men and women deal with everyday.
theotas - Bush SHOULD support military families considering how many he destroyed with his un-needed wars.
Actually Yellowdog, Dick Cheney led the way.
Sorry but I find this sooooo interesting. Mississippi, that bastion of redness - turns out the state has the lowest marriage rate in the entire country. How does that happen in a sweet little red state??? Bet the far righters will be there trying to remedy that quickly!
It was funny. Ferrell is a hoot as Dubya. Not as good as Phil Hartman's (RIP) Bill Clinton, but pretty darn close.
Wordsmithing is the Same as Bull$hiting, Hollow words with No CommonSense or Actions!
Only Fools Believe & thiers nuttin like Fantasy!
You Betcha!
Occupy SoggyBottom!
Waiting for Rand Paul to tell Jan R. van Lohuizen he/she is so "gay."
Can we repeat this part once more for those who still don't get it?
"This is not about giving anyone extra protections or privileges, this is about making sure that everyone – regardless of sexual orientation – is provided the same protections against discrimination that you and I enjoy.”
I actually doubt that the powers that be in the GOP will be listening, though. Romney sure can't, or he risks having a size 14 flip-flop in his mouth. And can anyone seriously envision Rick Santorum or his supporters reading this and saying "Golly, gee - this guy is right! We've already lost this war - the only thing left is for us to embrace it and try to own it!". Not gonna happen.
In a digital technology world, today's GOP is still watching black and white tv and listening to 78 rpm records......and thinking they're somehow still relevant.
This should be great to see how many of the GOP faithful who stood firmly behind their party last week reacts to this. They may be shopping for another new party as we speak. We'll have to see how many loyal GOP supporters are now able to come out. Since so many still live in the south, maybe they'll call their new party The SweetTea Party.
There are a good number of Republicans who favor gay marriage. Apparently, every single one of them appeared on liberal media talk shows and were interviewed. They are very popular these days.
In fact, Face the Nation had two on the same show , Ted Olsen and Mark McKinnon. The old liberal warhorse Bob Schieffer mentioned they were Republicans and supported gay marriage, about 12 times or so...Bob always lets us know, repeatedly when he has alleged "conservatives" on his liberal leaning show.
Democrats opposed to gay marriage....not a popular topic among the Obama cheerleaders , is it?
Shhhh...dont make them nervous by asking them any questions...Tim Kaine is in hiding...
latest polls show the only about 10% of republicans favor gay marriage whereas 60% or so of dems do (and 20% more favor civil unions).
So the statement that "a good number of republicans favor gay marriages" isn't very accurate.
And hence focusing on the (relatively few) dems who don't support it isn't really newsworthy. No one is claiming that no dems are against gay marriage.
Bob's grasping at straws these days.
Better the boob grasp straws rather then his little member!
Like the republican party is going to value civil rights for all.
Especially when they are trying to make women into second class citizens. Republicans don't consider women smart enough to decide for herself, she needs a man to tell her what to do even to contraception.
They are still trying to convince us that following the austerity trail down the rabbit hole of another recession is the best route for America. Republicans are so brilliant they watch and see their same type policies caused another recession in England and their best ideal is to do the same here in America.
Other than hating President Obama the right has offered nothing for America only taking from the poor, old, hungry, sick and our veterans to pay for more tax cuts for Romney and his rich friends.
and we are still on this topic because??? no wonder nothing gets done in this country.
Golly Gee, Gomer - which group keeps holding up the train on this issue? Want the issue laid to rest, vote for equality. Oh, I forget, hair-burner Romney and his followers do not want to talk about their penchant for pin curls.
But Bush has since said he favors civil unions, and now, days after President Obama announced his support for same-sex marriage, his pollster from that race is recommending Republicans come around on same-sex marriage and gay rights."
So tell me what is the difference between civil unions and same-sex marriage and gay rights?
No pond intended, but why can we have it both ways and not use the freaking word Marriage and give them the same benefits. Let's find a middle ground but as both Mitt and Obama said: The States decide.
concerned citizen
I asked the same question the other day. If we remove the word Marriage from same sex ___— and make civil unions (accepted on a state wide basis) the same; is that good enough? This cause celebre is not of great interest to me. Guess I'm still evolving on this issue, but still think civil unions are the way to go.
I'm guessing the big deal is that people won't have equal legal status in every state with civil unions (some states might not have enacted them)? The favorable tax benefits for married filing jointly and other benefits would also have to be addresed and added to civil unions.
Yellowdog - up through about the 1950's/60's, civil unions, common law marriages, and marriage granted almost equal benefits. The problem since then it that benefits for marriages have greatly improved, while common law and civil unions have fallen behind. Thus, to get equal protections for co-habitation, there is more legislative work needed to get civil unions and/or common law marriage on a par with marriage, vs. amending marriage to be same sex tolerant.
I used to feel the same way that civil unions should be enough but the more I thought about it over the past few years I came to believe that marriage means more to people than having the rights that go with it. It is a commitment that two people make to each other and it just doesn't seem right to limit it.
RedDev thanks for the background information, like I said don't follow this issue much. Red and SF accept your thoughts, but can't make that final step.
Civil Unions aren’t good enough because separate but “equal” doesn’t work. If you asked any straight couple to give up their marriage for a “civil union”, they’d laugh in your face. Saying gay people can’t have access to marriage because it is a “straight privilege” is saying they are inferior to straight people. Equal means equal, not “straight people get married and gay people have to settle with civil unions because a bunch of bigots get offended by their equal rights.”
Obama reminds me of this kid I went to high school with. He ran for student body president on a "no rules" platform. Basically he tried convincing every kid in school they were a "Victim of the Man" and a vote for him would set them free. Let's vote for a better leader in 2012.....
UAW
You remind me of this kid I went to high school with. Sitting in the back of the room, always whining about anything and everything, never contributing. Always on the negative. Wonder what ever happened to him.
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
UAW reminds me of this kid I went to high school with - he loved to cut the long hairs, and turn them into the short hairs. He OD'd on LSD, revived, became LDS, and doesn't remember a thing, except for the occasional flashback. Now he wants to be president.
Dee,
I ended up in business working for one of those evil 1%'ers for the last 16 years who employs 3000 others. I've never been unemployed. Live in a $350k house, which is a nice shack in Iowa. 800 credit score. Our kids all have good jobs or own their own businesses. But I have a feeling we would have gotten all of this regardless of who is in the White House....... :P
Yeah, we got it .. you did it all on your own without any assistance from anyone, anywhere. Like those favorable tax deductions for kids, property taxes and the like. And those non-public services like police/fire protection, schools and roads. Bang-up job there on your own, fella. There you have it folks, ungrateful bottom feeders utilizing the government to make it on their "OWN". Or for you thin-skinned conservatives, privileged elite utilizing the government to make it on your "OWN".
Come on Red, That kid who got the hair cut probably ended up making a good first impression and ended up better off for it. Of course we need good schools, police and fire protection, roads bridges etc. I'm just not sure why the government needs to pay so much more for those services?? Is a firemen really in need of full retirement benefits at the age of 50? Why pay him for nothing. Let him work at another job private sector job until Social Security says he is ready to retire. We could use that money to pay another firemen to be on the force protecting us. There are many examples of wasted money and talent like this. Seriously we need to stop allowing our leaders to convince us that we are all "victims" and can be saved in exchange for votes....
UAWPleeeeease - and if that had been your son who was held down by the thugs and assaulted my guess is you would have raised holy h**l!
I don't know any leader trying to convince me I'm a "victim." Sounds too much like the GOP hatred for me.
InRE: "Is a firemen really in need of full retirement benefits at the age of 50?"
Um... when you are willing to do what we do for 20-25 years knowing full well that by the age of 55 your health will probably be compromised thanks to the incredible amount of toxic crap we take in solely for the privilege of helping you out on the worst day of your life, then feel free to register your comments on what firefighters deserve in their retirement.
UAWPleeeeeeease - the best man running for 2012 is hands down Obama. When the GOP fields a better man or woman, they'll be considered!
The problem with all this is that van Lohuizen is a conservative and the Republicans in control are reactionary anti-rights extremists that intend to force government into all available bodily orifices and civil rights freedoms.
The good news is these are the first steps of the Republicans telling the right-wing freaks - AKA TP/Evangelicals - GET YOUR OWN FRIGGIN' PARTY!! Good luck to them.
The biggest flip flopper on "same sex marriage" appears to be President Obama. First he is for it, then against it, now he is for it but only as a States Right Requirement. Then he instructs his Justice Department not to defend the Defense of Marriage Act because Obama and Holder think it is unconstitutional.
On this issue, I'm sure most pro-gay people are much happier with obama's adjustments to his position than the GOP.
I'd rather have someone who is mostly correct, even if wishy washy, than someone like the GOP who is completely and consistently incorrect.
I hope I live long enough to see same sex marriage equality the law of the land in this supposedly "free" country.
republicans are twisting in the wind- no one believes anything they say- get rid of all of them- we need to move on.
There is no such thing as two equalities. Either all are equal, or they are not. These are people who serve America. They fight for our safety in the police force, they save our lives in surgery rooms, and they risk their own lives in the army for their country. They deserve the right to marry whoever they want.
Hey! Wait a minute! The GOP flip-flops on 'gay' marriage!? Oh, yes, the poll number do show that less and less Americans are against imposing 'sad' marriage on others. Maybe one day these slimeball cretin so-called Christian right-wing moronic hypocrites realize that freedom (of choice) is not only reserved for them, but for everybody!
Yes, clear the playing field. All humans deserve the same rights.
agreed. eliminate all urinals
Gays, should have their legal rights and I don't think to many disagree with this. I think that Gays having marriage rights to the point where it overshadows the traditional marriage is wrong. I think the Civil Unions could be set up to accomodate the basic protection, freedom and legal rights to the Gay people and would actually be better than trying to redefine Marraige and actually give more rights for Gays (bad idea) Its like cats, trying to tell dogs they are taking over. lol
The percentage of each past president's cabinet who had worked in the private business sector prior to their appointment to the cabinet. You know that the private business sector is
a real-life business, not a government job. Here are the percentages:
T. Roosevelt........38% R
Taft.................... 40% R
Wilson .................52% D
Harding................49% R
Coolidge.............. 48% R
Hoover ................42% R
F. Roosevelt.........50% D
Truman................50% D
Eisenhower......... 57% R
Kennedy..............30% D
Johnson................47% D
Nixon...................53% R
Ford......................42% R
Carter...................32% D
Reagan.................56% R
GH Bush.............. 51% R
Clinton ............... 39% D
GW Bush..............55% R
And the winner is:
Obama.... 8% D
This helps to explain the "competence" of this administration: only 8% of
them have ever had a "real job" in a private business!
That's right! Only eight percent---the least, by far, of the last 19 presidents! And these people are trying to tell our private sector how to run their businesses?
How can the president of a major nation and society, the one with the most successful economic system in world history, stand and talk about business when he's never worked for one? Or about jobs when he has never really had (nor created) one? And when it's the same for 92% of his senior staff and closest advisers? They've spent most of their time in academia, government and/or non-profit jobs or as "community organizers."
They should have been in an employment line.
Pass this on...we'll NEVER see these facts in
the main stream media.
"One of the penalties of not participating in politics is that you will be governed by your inferiors." Plato
So let's take your uhm, logic, and put that up against Obama's military experience. You haters used to use the lack of service in the military as a litmus test but I notice that hasn't been the case with Obama. Maybe that's because he's done more than all of your lousy chicken hawks in that dept. Results don't lie so change the subject. Obama got Osama and that pisses you off, admit it.
And I'll use a Republican against you, and a Reagan appointee on top of that. David Stockman...read up and see what he says about the lost party.
Riddle me this cali-guy. If the republicans are so good at finance how did we get the deficit in the first place?
Basically the ryan budget was enacted in England and they are now entering another, calling it a double-dipped recession. The republicans only whined about the stimulus and voted against it. Our country is not having another recession due to not following republicans ideals.
Why would anyone vote for a republican whose only plan is to create another recession on purpose?
Let me guess, it was bushes fault
You can't leave out the republicans in congress who voted to create the deficit. Remember deficits didn't matter until President Obama was elected.
Then the votes by the republicans to create the deficit suddenly became the democrats fault. Instead of raising taxes during war time like any responsible leaders would have done, the republicans want to starve the poor, take education from our children and take from our wounded veterans programs instead.
What would be worth such devastation to our country, why more tax cuts for Romney and his rich friends.
Yes the republicans did it, made their friends richer and drove America into a recession.
Tell me again why republicans are supposed to be good for our economy?
Bush pollster would only make good shark or alligator bait maker in this universe. Aside for this there is no useful purpose for him, that makes sanity a part of who he claims to be.
Wake up, dude! Conservatives have had a loooooong history of not understanding that "freedom means freedom for everyone."
Why are they going to suddenly come around this late in the game?
This is perfect. First I see Christians saying..."Maybe God wont mind if I elect a false Prophet for President", Now they are going to start saying that being Gay is OK as well. I often think it must be so difficult to be conservative, having no real moral compass except capitalism and no real integrity that is not temporal (for conservatives...that word means "time based").
Well the silver lining is...at least some of them are evolving into decent human beings (even if they went kicking and screaming the whole way).
Elect a fale prophet for President? You mean G W Bush who claimed that God spoke to him and wanted him to be president and told him to invade Iraq?? Is that the fale prophet to whom you refer?
Mormonism is a cult. And Christians electing a Mormon would be the same as electing a cult leader.
With the sitting president in a same sex marriage, perhaps they should consider it.