If these people like Romney are really serious about protecting marriage, then why don't they just outlaw divorce? Marriage is not threatened by gays or anyone else wanting to get married; it is threatened by the married not wanting to stay married; not wanting to live up to their commitment to a partner. That's why our divorce rate in around 50% compared to something like 2% in 1960. But I already know the reason: it is because their so-called pro-marriage stance is nothing more than a thinly disguised form of anti-gay bigotry that really has nothing to do with marriage at all. It's only a pretense.

Judy, no it was not better. I'm 73 years old and no it was not better.

you sure were not better off if you were Black, Hispanic, poor, gay, a single woman, or a widow.

Judy, Judy, Judy - Get a grip. Those days are gone and thank God for that. Women were dominated by their husbands, no one talked about domestic abuse and blacks weren't allowed to use the restrooms and eat at the same place white people did. Small towns and small minds were not a good thing.

One Man & One Woman? Wasn't his grandfather a polygamist? I guess he doesn't care as much for tradition as he says he does. No respect for his elders!

These beliefs should play no part in governing this nation.

If you choose to have religion, so be it. That religion should guide you in how you live and deal with others, and not be taken as a mandate to tell others how to live.

I do not consider proselytizing Mormonism in Paris doing God's business. Helping the poor the sick the disabled yes.

Marriage was just an owner ship agreement when families would give or sell their daughters to men. Now a relationship is built on trust, love & sharing the goood & bad in life. Both produce offsprings.

I care not what church our future present wants to attend as long as long as he does his job according to the US Constitution.

@Judy-1885929

Better off? If you don't like all the progress that has been done over the years, why don't you move to a more traditional country (like China) and see how it feels to live in a place where no one has rights. Your type of character is the type of character rational Americans have been fighting against over the last hundred years, and we've won all of those civil right battles, and will not stop until gay marriage wins.

Yes, it sounds like a "Leave It To Beaver" world but weren't we better off.

Only on TV. But remember, back then, June did the housework in high heels and pearls, the Petris slept in separate beds (always wondered how they managed to create Richie). And we all know how REAL that world was, right?

Sorry to disillusion you, but even THEN, people didn't live in a "Leave it to Beaver" world. Just ask women, blacks and other minorities.

Judy

No doubt some folks were better off when Leave It To Beaver was a popular sit-com. I'm guessing that if you are one of them you were not forced to sit in the back of the bus, you had your "separate but equal" public school, died when you got old unless you have saved up enough to pay for medical care and were expected to stay home rather than take a job away from a married man's family.

Good god people --- this is a NON ISSUE. If you're against gay marriage ---- don't marry a gay person. End of story. Now --- how about both Romney and President Obama moving on to REAL issues?????

Anyone on here who doesn't want Romney to win needs to look into the Class I felony he committed while bribing Wisconsin voters with sandwiches in return for going to the polls. He's currently under investigation, although charges have not yet been filed. Tell everyone you know. Write the District Attorney of Waukesha County, Brad Schimel, and demand that he press charges against Romney for this act. Boom, out of the race. End of story.

Charlie-1915998

I agree totally, the problem is they can't handle the real issues so they move something like this into the national spotlight to distract the population from their ineptitude. And when they do something on this issue, like create legislation, they will use it for political gain as if they really did something. When in fact, they would be legislating morality in an area that they had no right to intrude.

Mike

The mission that you speak of is going to live in Socialist France to avoid being drafted for the Vietnam war, How many of Mitts family members have served in the military in any Generation? Answer is none, I and most Americans have had grandfathers,uncles fathers, brothers and sisters, sons and daughters who have served, Mormons dont serve they just suck on the Teat of the United States

There goes ole Mitt, shaking up the Etch-A-sketch "again", the only thing consistent about Mitt is that fake GRIN!

Obama/Biden 2012

Rodham-Clinton/Wasserman-Schultz 2016

Judy - Ah yes fond memories of "Leave It To Beaver"..... it was a tv show where no blacks, Hispanics, Asians or other ethnicities existed. Mom stayed home and raised a family, dad had a career he knew he could retire from. You didn't need two incomes to make it. Mom and dad slept seperate and the kids did there chores.

If you lived during this era then you knew the world outside of the TV set was not as you saw on tv. There where actually other races fighting for equality. Women were tired of not being able to gain acceptance in the workplace as worthy of positions other than secretary. Women wanted to be doctors and not just housewives. You would love to set women black in their places and other minorities in the back of the bus again or eating at seperate facilities. Whites only drinking fountains. Whites only restaraunts. Black kids and white kids could not dance together in high school dances. Segregation was the law.

Romance the past as if there was no such thing as teen pregnancy. We were not better off then excpet............on tv if you were an actual Cleaver.

Bewitched was out in this same time frame and what do you know, gays existed and the actor that played darren stevens, dick sargent, was gay. we pretended he was not just as we told ourselves rock hudson was str8. stop burying yor head in the sands of time and face it. change takes courage and sometimes pain, but we are only better off if we grow, not remain ignorant and naive about the past and the way it was.

I will agree it may have been better for white males, but all "others", to include women, fare better now. Back then a man could beat his wife and not be charged. It was not considered rape to force a wife to do her "wifely duty".

sez me, I have personally known a Mormon who went into the military instead of going on a mission. We do not go on missions merely to get of military service, it is virtually mandatory for every young man from 19-21 years of age. Those who happen to be in the military when their time comes are generally allowed a leave of absence to go, and then serve their country when they get back.

Should read..Moron Romney not Mormon Romney..MSNBC finally used a spell checker at wrong time.

you know why divorce is more used now days? Because women grew tired of men who abused them both mentally and physically!! Women wanted more from life than to stay at home and cook all the meals and clean and raise children and the economy started making it so that it took 2 paychecks to make it from week to week!! Then there were the women whose men left them for other women and were left holding the bag for the home and the children....you really think they were all lazy and sitting around drawing help from the government???? You are delusional!!Do you even have any idea how many deadbeat Dads are out there? Then there were the women who left because the men were abusing their children and raping them or beating them ...yes things have changed....women are not going to sit around and take it any more!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Women demanded their rights....and these strong women endured lots of things that we all take for granted because our ancestors were brave and stood up for what was right!!! Same for the Black people and the other minorities that have said we are not going to take it anymore.....now the Gay people are demanding their rights....equality for all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can go back and live in your delusional world of Leave it to Beaver....but remember it was fiction!!!!!!!!!!!! We live in the real world and those of us who believe in equal rights will always be out there demanding them for those who do not have it!!!!!!!!! Jesus set the example and told us to help those people like He did!!! A true Christian demands equality for all!!!!!!!!!!! Obama/Biden 2012

mike277,

I like your little song, but what was good enough for Jesus? Being single?

Judy-1885929:

No, tradition like having a mother and father in the home, working for a living instead mooching off the government for food, home, utilities, etc., schools that don't punish kids for stupid things and teach the basics - reading, writing, and arithmetic. Yes, it sounds like a "Leave It To Beaver" world but weren't we better off. Everyone knew right from wrong and there was no "well,,it's okay to do it if it feels good" The world was a better place than the world we have today where anything goes - and it seems to be going downhill fast!!!!!!

And don't forget, Judy hun, that in your good ole 1950's the top tax rate was around 90 percent.

No wonder the economy and nation was better off.

Mickey: Remember Mary Magdaline? What was her "profession" again?

regfife

A Mormon....... Singularly? one.......total single..... wow, How many members of your immediate family have served in the Military from Grandfathers on down, ? In my family there are 12 in Mittens family there are NONE, Zero, Zilch, Nada, and he wants to be POTUS I think not and so do my family members

P.S.

If everyone was Mormon who would we send to fight and who wouldve fought? no one, we would be speaking Chinese or Russian

Sam,

"Mickey: Remember Mary Magdaline? What was her "profession" again?"

She was a prostitute. But what does that have to do with Jesus? Jesus loved prostitutes and all the other little sinners, too. Sinners were his favorite kind of people. That's why the Jews didn't like him. They had a hang-up about sinners that Jesus didn't share.

Sam 'n' Mickey, no she was not a prostitute. The Mary Magdalene was a hooker meme was invented by "the road can never be low enough" misogynist Vatican Inc. Dippy men get a kick out of it, for obvious reasons, but theology historians increasingly believe MM was Jesus of Nazareth's closest companion, if not his wife.

As for RobMe speaking at Liberty U. and pontificating that marriage is one man with one woman? Yeah, except when it's one man with multiple underage girls, as it was for Mitten's grandfather and as it still is today inside factions of the Mormon church.

Mike-2594304

"Jamey; Romney spent a couple years in serving God in mission. How many days or hours have you spent, to give value to your criticism?"..I think the real question should be of Romney..just how did he do this so called service for his religion ? And where ? I find it hard to believe that Romney would live as others do for any reason..service to or for his church meaning little.

AS for those wanting the republicans in the oval office..can hardly wait to see just how you all handle getting everything cut....including your wages. Are we as a nation now condeming those of us who have grown old and happen not to be millionaires to death ? How about the education of our children....who among them if not wealthy will get to go to collage ? How about jobs ? Where will they come from if they continue to go offshore for higher profits ? Then..who in this country will be able to buy whateve is made ? Bush's tax cuts and trickle down economics cost this country thousands of jobs ? How much more should we loose ?

Unhappy,

Jesus neither approved nor disapproved of gay marriage. It simply was not an issue in his time. Every good Jewish boy was expected to get married, whether he wanted to or not. Which has raised the question in many people's minds: why did Jesus, a good Jewish boy, not get married?

And don't forget, Judy hun, that in your good ole 1950's the top tax rate was around 90 percent.

and that nearly 40% of the workforce belonged to a labor or trade union, which is why wages were higher.

...and you know who you'll serve.

psst. Mittens. You cannot serve God and mammon.

Unhappy-1583758...please inform me as to how anyone knows exactlly what Jessus said or did not say ? How many books were left out of the bible because the church leaders did not like what they said.? Even better question for you...just who conceived of the Bible anyway ? And the books to be included..got news for ya..it was not the roman catholic church members...it was however the head of Rome at that time..

Not the candidate who shares his or her faith or theology. We are, after all, electing a commander-in-chief, not a pastor or religious leader.

Mitt Romney should listen to his own words. If he really wanted to be the "Comander-in-chief" he should NOT MIX religion and politics, especially associating gay marriage with something religious.

Gay marriage is going to be a civil union, dignified by LAW, and some people may or may not choose to have a religious ceremony besides the civil one.

Why does he think that "marriage" has to do with the Mormon chrch or the Catholic church? The possible worse, besides Baptist, Jewish and Mulism.

YIKES!

@ivan, NC - maybe that's why he's unhappy. And I though religion was the salvation for that.

ivan, NC,

"...please inform me as to how anyone knows exactlly what Jessus said or did not say ? How many books were left out of the bible"

Good point there, friend. And that there were many things said and done by Jesus that are not recorded in the Bible is confirmed by the Bible itself. Note the very last words of the Gospel of John: "There are, in fact, many other things also which Jesus did, which, if they were ever written in full detail, I suppose, the world itself could not contain the scrolls written." (John 21:25)

"Leave it to Beaver" You have got to be joking. Honey (To use a 50s term for women) that was 'television' not real life.

You Right Wingers seem to confuse the two quite a bit....Ahnold was not the Terminator, he just played him in a movie.

Ronnie was not The Gipper, he just played him in a movie.

Freddie Thompson was not an attorney general out for justice, he just played one on TV.

Conversely

John Glenn was a true American Hero.

John Kerry was a true American Hero.

John F Kennedy was a true American Hero.

They were not just play acting..

And of course Romoney goes to wallow at the Altar of Jerry Fartwell. No surprise there...next thing you know he will hit Bob Jones and Oral Roberts campuses.

It is not God and Jesus we have a problem with, it is just some of their fans.

A whisper to an aide as he walked away from the podium. "I told them them the way it is, and if they don't like it I'll hold the punks down and shave their heads.

Romney reads a speech off the teleprompters

at a school that has taught Mormons are a cult.

Did the school flip for Willard?

Yes, only the GOP could be seen associating with such a disgusting individual as Jerry Falwell, and that is just okay, just a perfectly acceptable practice. When that guy died it was win for humanity, but, I digress..

Romney speaking about any kind of human values is a sick joke. After the story about him roughing up a gay student then cutting off the poor guys hair you would think he might be ashamed to be seen in public..... BUT NO. Romney is just your run of the mill Republican thug trying to act like a normal human being. Your not fooling anybody Willard!

Jesus neither approved nor disapproved of gay marriage. It simply was not an issue in his time. Every good Jewish boy was expected to get married, whether he wanted to or not. Which has raised the question in many people's minds: why did Jesus, a good Jewish boy, not get married?

Mickey: Your point being? Are you saying Jesus was gay, because he wasn't married? When did marriage become a requirement for a teacher? Was the John the Baptist married? He lived at the same time around Jesus.

Was the apostle Paul married? Nope. So tell me exactly how you think everyone should get married? It was a non-issue, and yes, people were probably expected to get married like they are today. Does that mean that everyone did? No. In fact, if you noticed a lot of preachers back then preferred to remain unmarried in order not to be hampered by a wife and family, otherwise they would have to think about their needs. By remaining unmarried, they could solely concentrate on the work for God.

An actually your verse about John 21:25 was not talking about secret "evil" things that Jesus did, but about the other miracles that his diciples saw. So once again, you are misqoting.

Or as the Mormons believe it's between one man and many women.

"To keep the sanctity of marriage, it should only be between one man and several women living in a Mormon polygamist commune hidden in Mexico." - Romney's pappy

Of course Romney got big applause about discriminating against gay American citizens. Liberty University has been teaching religious intolerance ever since Reich's Fuhrer Falwell founded this modern day center of bigotry and hate.

excerpt from Romney speeech "Marriage was designed to be between one man or woman and one corporation. FOr example Hewlettt Pqckard - which is manly corporation can be marrried to Carly Fiorina."

Here we go again with rightwing fallacious arguments and comparisons.

First, marriage has changed over history consisting of arranged marriages, polygamy, interracial marriages, and no, God is not sad that the president advocates equal rights under the law regardless of sexual orientation.

No, labor unions, Hollywood, etc. that contribute to the president's campaign are not the same as Wall Street, Big Oil, and multinational corporations that contribute more to Republicans -- Because it's all about what is expected in return. Hollywood expects nothing, unions just want labor rights preserved, it's not at all the same.

No, Blue Dogs that vote with Republicans the majority of the time are not the same as Republicans like Bob Bennett, Arlen Specter, or Dick Lugar who were clearly conservative in their voting record, but have been thrown out because of their "moderation" and willingness to give a little to get a little.

If the far-Right demands that Romney takes extreme positions, he will not attract Independents. That's why progressives are holding Romney to his primary lies. Romney can't shake the Etch-a-Sketch -- He is stuck with the crazies and the cannibals -- Buahahahaha!

As a white male growing up in the 50's it was hell. We were looked on with suspicion. It was assumed that we were against minorities equal rights, women's equal rights, integration of workplace, schools and residential areas. Being blamed for the KKK, being blamed for segregation, I don't want to return to that past. It was hell.

COLONIA JUAREZ, Mexico — Three dozen of Mitt Romney’s relatives live here in a narrow river valley at the foot of the western Sierra Madre mountains, surrounded by peach groves, apple orchards and some of the baddest, most fearsome drug gangsters and kidnappers in all of northern Mexico.

Like Mitt, the Mexican Romneys are descendants of Miles Park Romney, who came to the Chihuahua desert in 1885 seeking refuge from U.S. anti-polygamy laws. He had four wives and 30 children, and on the rocky banks of the Piedras Verdes River, he and his fellow Mormon pioneers carved out a prosperous settlement beyond the reach of U.S. federal marshals. He was Mitt’s great-grandfather.

Soooooooo.....Mittford, if you had any family pride, shouldn't you be saying that you believe marriage is between one man and four women....give or take a couple?

PS, Baptists believe marriage is between one man and one woman, and another woman, and another woman, etc. etc. etc.

Get Real... -- No, you get real. Romney has no principles, that's exactly the problem with him

There's a reason many Liberty University students protested having Romney speak at their graduation -- Because any Mormon who says they believe marriage is "one man and one woman' is not being completely honest. Mormon men can be sealed to more than one woman in the temple. It's the same thing, in the days of polygamy, men didn't marry all the women at once, but rather in succession over time without divorcing the previous woman. It's the same thing/belief, just not in the civil system against the laws of the land.

But let's talk about the new rightwing buzzword "principles." It is code for never compromising. It's not possible to go through life without compromise -- whether it's negotiating who will take out the trash and who will do the dishes, whether at work and dealing with co-workers and employers/employees, heck even at church organizing a bake sale.

Let's face it, the rightwing has No Rule of Reason, and their extremism will cause their own demise.

Unhappy,

"Your point being? Are you saying Jesus was gay, because he wasn't married?"

I did not imply anything, but what interests me is the amount you have inferred. Do you think Jesus was gay? It's seems you protest too much. And as for quote from John 21:25, I quoted it simply to show that the Bible itself says there are many things Jesus did that are not recorded. I said nothing about his doing anything "evil" in secret.

1.35 littlechanges

What ignorance.

I don't get it, is this another flip-flop? I mean the Mormon faith believes in multiple wives. Now ol' Mitt saying, "one man one woman." Doesn't that mean that he's not following his religious convictions? And if he isn't following his religious convictions, what makes anyone think he would follow any other convictions? Especially those required of the Conservative base? And when he supports many convictions on the same issue wouldn't that make him an unpredictable, flip-flopping, Conservative candidate? I thinks I smells a Dubya 2.0!

Please... don't get God to endorse your bigotry! this is not about religion, it's about the law. this country is sheltered under equality, choice, and a sense of happiness. Oh, and by the way happy mothers day to each and every mother who brought into this world a child either straight and or gay. God bless you.

tradition like having a mother and father in the home, working for a living

Yeah, one person could work outside the home and actually make a living wage while the other worked at home raising the kids. That part was better and is when we had strong unions and a middle class.

Now average mother and father have to work outside the home just to scrape by at their McWalmart wage jobs.

tjohn_missouri,

"I don't get it, is this another flip-flop? I mean the Mormon faith believes in multiple wives. Now ol' Mitt saying, "one man one woman." Doesn't that mean that he's not following his religious convictions?"

Romney and his fellow Mormons have not been able to follow their religious convictions concerning marriage ever since the Federal Government forced them to abandon polygamy as a pre-condition for the admission of Utah to the Union as a state. That was a fine example of a Christian majority forcing its own opinion upon a Christian minority, and now that minority wants to force its opinion on all other Americans.

40 states have laws banning gay marriage. We don't really need to worry about the executive branch or the Supreme Court. All that is required is 39 states.

The legislatures of 2/3 of the states in the US would need to call for a convention to amend the constitution and then 3/4 of the states would have to pass the amendment.

States could also use this same solution to the problem of not being allows to put the Ten Commandments in schools.

IMJ3,

According to WikiPedia "As of May 2012, with the passing of North Carolina's gay marriage ban, 12 states prohibit same-sex marriage via statute and 30 via the state's constitution.

So it is not 40 states that have amended their constitutions to prohibit gay marriage. Only 30 have done that, and even Arizona, which is about as red-necked a state as you can get, rejected such an amendment a few years ago.

Mickey,

There is a difference between amending a state constitution and amending the US constitution.

You need 39 states to amend the US constitution.

All that is required is the will to do it. The number of states infavor has already been reached.

If the states decide to call for a constitutional convention then they could even pass an amendment requiring a balanced budget.

It could turn out that a Defense of Marriage constitutional convention could fix a lot of the problems that plague our country.

Get real.......We need a person of principle in the Oval office, not a power monger who does what the polls indicate might get more votes.... Romney ain't perfect but Obama will say what ever it takes and do nothing in return. That is a PROVEN FACT!

Okay I have had my laugh for the day! Romney changes his mind on every issue according to who he is speaking to......it's time for you to GET REAL!!!

IMJ3,

"The number of states infavor has already been reached."

Perhaps, but I'm not so sure of that. The American people have shown themselves historically to be very reluctant when it comes to amending our U.S. Constitution, and most of the amendments that have been made have been in favor of recognizing the rights of Americans (the Bill of Rights); not taking them away. The U.S. Constitution has been amended only 26 times in over 200 years and only 10 times since the turn of the 20th. century (i.e. in the past 142 years, the last previous time being in 1870 with the 15th. amendment). The last amendment to the U.S. Constitution (the 26th.) was, I believe, in 1971, granting the right to vote to 18 year olds.

Only 1 candidate who will not lie to you in your face...

Vote Ron Paul 2012!

IMJ3 -- Aside from the founding fathers already trying state's rights, which was a complete failure and chaos, when it comes to civil liberties, these should never be decided by the states. We would still have slavery in the south if this was the case.

You have learned some parliamentary procedure, but you need to study philosophy as well, and concepts of protecting the rights of the minority, the general will versus the common good, and so forth. This is ultimately why the founding fathers put various checks and balances in place, and why for example the Supreme Court tends to rule on matters of law that the popular vote may not otherwise support (and which is by no means Majority Rule since voter turn-out is so low in our nation).

You also assume there is majority support for issues based on state legislatures (or how Michigan with it's current Emergency Manager system factors in all this?). One disconcerting trend at this time is the fact that representatives, particularly the GOP/TP House, vote against majority positions per survey polls.

What we really should be worried about is money in our politics and other trends that are damaging our republic and constitutional democracy.

IMJ3-you don't tell us what to write or think and we do get to demean your narrow minded out of touch views. Take your fantasy constitutional convention and your birther/truther nonsense to fox news blogs-you'll find the lower I. Q. 's more to your tastes.

Mitt Romney is a liar.

So I guess racism trumps religion at Liberty U.

Anyone except Obama, even the cultist.

flip-flop, flip-flop, flip-flop, flip-flop.........And they wonder why religion failes.

Romney doesn't get it at all. If he had said "I believe that marriage is between one man and one woman, but we must be tolerant, inclusive, and should respect the rights and views of others... as our religions teach", then he could have pulled in over half the country. Instead he tells us that he will legislate his restrictive intolerant exclusionary religious views. Nice. Not today you won't, Mr. Romney.

Romney flip flops but Obama evolves. Geez you lefties are so determined to push your agenda on everyone you do not see that you are as bad as the righties.

realist pondering

While I don't agree with IMJ3's point of view, he or she is correct. An amendment can be demanded by the states. In fact, if three quarters of the states demand one, it actually becomes an amendment and would be considered ratified.

It could actually be done if a proposition is placed on the ballot let's say demanding that the state demand a repeal of the Sixteenth Amendment. If the people of the state were to vote it into place, it would force the state to demand it of Congress.

While I don't think a persons sexual orientation is anybodies or the governments business, considering how dysfunctional our government has become, it might actually come to this to get things done.

We will not fix the problems we face without one group or another getting hurt. I say hurt some before all have to feel the pain.

john,

"While I don't think a persons sexual orientation is anybodies or the governments business, considering how dysfunctional our government has become, it might actually come to this to get things done."

Maybe that's really the amendment we need. Instead of banning gay marriage, maybe we need to pass an amendment to the Constitution requiring our political parties in Congress resolve their differences within a certain length of time, and that a short one.

Personally, I like the idea of forcing "No Labels" idea, forced by amendment. No budget, no pay.

A million and a half fewer people employed in three and a half years.

A civilian labor force down to 1981 levels.

Limping GDP- about to get shrunk even lower, due to a massive trade imbalance.

Six trillion more in debt.

That's what Obama's presidency has wrought. Oh- and Iran and North Korea even closer to a nuclear weapon- I guess his charm offensive did not work. Egypt in the hands of Islamic extremists- ditto Libya. Yemen on the brink of collapse- ditto Bahrain. An HCR no one wants- that got shoved down our throats, anyway. . .

You see where I'm going with this?

It's the economy - and jobs, and economic stagnation- unless you are a complete moron. And foreign affairs- give me a skilled negotiator a y day of the week, and twice on Sunday, rather than a narcissist who is completely flummoxed by those who do not swoon at his feet.

As Bill Clinton said, the man is a rank amateur- and I wish Hillary had challenged him. Then, I would not care who an this election. As it is. . .

Obama shelved in 2012.

The states will not call for a constitutional convention for anything other than the Defense of Marriage. It is the only cause that has gotten more than 39 states to pass laws to protect. The Federal government is against the Defense of Marriage Act and has not defended it in court.

The best remedy is to get the states to call a convention. Once a convention is called then it can be used to fix a whole variety of problems that plague Washington.

IMJ3,

"Once a convention is called then it can be used to fix a whole variety of problems that plague Washington."

Or create a whole slew of new problems. I thought "social engineering" was a "no-no" for the right wing in this country. Now, with this issue of gay marriage, they seem to be have become in favor of "social engineering" all of a sudden. After all, if the natural evolution of opinion in this country is in favor of gay marriage, as it appears from public polls to be, isn't opposing it through a constitutional amendment "social engineering".

David1250 you should get some counselling for that Obama hate - it will corrrode you brain.

@David-1250323

How many of Mitts family members have served in the military

sez me u whacko, why don't you tell us how many people in Obama's family have served in the U.S. military.

A lot more than Mitt's:

Stanley Dunham is the grandfather of Barack Obama. He was born in 1918 and served as a sergeant in the U.S. Army during World War II.

Ralph Dunham, Great-uncle of Barack Obama, older brother of Stanley Dunham, born 1916. He served in the U.S. Army as an assignment and personnel officer during World War II, landing at Normandy's Omaha Easy Red Beach on D-Day plus four, working his way through France, Italy and Germany.

Charles Thomas Payne, great-uncle of Barack Obama, younger brother of Madelyn Dunham, born 1925. Served during World War II in the U.S. Army 89th Infantry Division.

Robert Wolfley, Barack Obama's great-great-great-grandfather. He served as a private in Company A, 145th Ohio Infantry during the American Civil War.

Of course, to people like you it won't count. After all, that's the maternal white side of President Obama's family which, in your delusional Fox News bubble world, doesn't really exist.

lulu98 -- Flip-flop means going back and forth.

------------------------------

State's rights cuts both ways. It is also how gay marriage is getting passed in states. But as already stated above, amendment to the constitution is rare, as it should be, so what looks workable on the surface isn't likely to happen (remember the ERA was very popular). And some are reversals such as repeal of prohibition. Legislating morality never works--thank goodness.

What the heck happened to Judy? She threw out the Leave it to Beaver nonsense and then ran away.

what a load of ecumenical crap!

@lulu,

Actually I was pointing out the hypocrisy of religion, fundamentalism in particular. Seems they have commandments to follow unless it doesn't fit their political endgame.

Liberty University, home of the cherry pickers. Motto: "We have verses for any situation"

Jesus neither approved nor disapproved of gay marriage. It simply was not an issue in his time. Every good Jewish boy was expected to get married, whether he wanted to or not. Which has raised the question in many people's minds: why did Jesus, a good Jewish boy, not get married?

Because he was gay. If he even existed at all.

A vote for Romney - is a vote against the 14th Amendment and protecting heterosexual's rights too:

1. Discriminate against gays/lesbians even though they pay the same taxes.

2. Treat gays/lesbians as second class citizens.

3. SUPPORT BULLYING of Children, possible suicide, and murder because they are gay/lesbian and WILL NEVER have the same rights.

and others..

4. PUSH his religious agenda into our government violating amendment #1 of the United States Constitution.

5. Women cannot be trusted to make decisions for their own bodies. So we need to have GOVERNMENT dictate it for them.

Remember, under ROMNEY, its "We the People, if.. you follow my religious believes only.. if you don't..."

"Romney Flip Flops"

'I respect and will protect a woman's right to choose.' ^[1]
'I never really called myself pro-choice.' ^[2]

'I like mandates. The mandates work.' ^[1]
'I think it's unconstitutional on the 10th Amendment front.'

'I think the minimum wage ought to keep pace with inflation.' ^[1]
'There's no question raising the minimum wage excessively causes a loss of jobs.'

'I will work and fight for stem cell research.' ^[1]
'In the end, I became persuaded that the stem-cell debate was grounded in a false premise.'

'I saw my father march with Martin Luther King.' ^[1]
'I did not see it with my own eyes.'

'It was not my desire to go off and serve in Vietnam.' ^[1]
'I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there.'

'I've been a hunter pretty much all my life.' ^[1]
'I'm not a big game hunter... I've always been a rodent and rabbit hunter. Small varmints, if you will.'

Obama/Biden 2012.

All of you pro homosexuality activists miss the point that nature is blatantly telling you. You want to make a political issue out of a mistake of nature. Male homosexuals have testicals and produce sperm. Female homosexuals have their monthly cycle, ovaries and produce eggs. Nature intended them to be heterosexuals. They were created to reproduce. The men are not eunuchs and infertile. The women have ovaries and produce eggs. Nobody has asked why these people are homosexuals, (even though that is not the proper term) when they have nature's so called equipment to reproduce.

Obviously it is mental. When the egg met the sperm and the reproductive process began to create these individuals it was not to produce homosexuals who did not want to breed. If nature intended these people not to breed, then nature would not have given them sperm and eggs.

It is entirely obvious that being in this condition is an evolutionary dead end. Nature does not create animals, and man is an animal, not to breed and create the conditions for the survival of the fittest. There can be no competition between male homosexuals to breed and there is no competition between female homosexuals to choose partners to breed.

It is the politics and specifically the democrats who want to take this out of the scientific field and make it a political issue for votes. Yes these people exist. Yes give them all the civil rights to enjoy life NO! do not take from the heteroseuxal community their language and customs and give it to these people.

There are too many important issues today, to waste time over 2% of the population that can be easily giving them civil unions and getting on to important topics like the economy, paying off the deficit, creating jobs, getting the political parties to cooperate and work together. Obama is a disgrace. The last three years have demonstrated that he is an incompetent, a racist, a fool, a flake and a fraud. He has no future as a leader of anything, much less president. He is using his black skin to buy the black vote and hiding the 50% of him which is white. He is a mulatto and should be using his heritage as a black/white to bring the country together instead of dividing it.

Romney always took the easy way out. Look at the facts instead of the complete reversals throughout his life. Reliable reports say that teen-age Romney led a group of rowdy friends to physically attack and forcibly cut the hair of a student they believed to be gay. Whether the kid was gay or not is a mute point. Romney does not dispute this report, but states that he does not remember it.

We were all teenagers at one point and many of us did foolish things that we now regret. Our most serious transgressions remain with us today. We may have forgotten the lies of a 10 year old child faking illness to take a day off school. We will never forget promising everlasting love to an innocent girl only to get in her pants and then promptly dump her in favor of satisfying our raging hormones to move on to our next conquest.

We will never forget violating our parents trust by stealing the keys to the family car to take our friends on a joy ride. We will never forget joining the leader of the pack by swiping a case of beer off the back of a beer truck and getting wasted. We may chalk it up to youthful transgression, but all of us clearly remember them for the rest of our lives.

What's with Romney that he does not dispute the charges, but claims he doesn't remember that episode in his life? He's a liar. He's taking the easy way out just as he always has. He claims to be a self-made man despite the fact that his wealthy parents paid for the best private schools and the best universities. What could you or I have done with that golden opportunity?

He used his religion to become a missionary in France instead of serving in the Vietnam like millions of us. A missionary in France? Why not a missionary in Uganda or the Congo where missionaries were truly needed? The peace corp of that day would have offered deferment to serving one of the nations that had true need of devoted missionaries. If his church was serious about the need for their missionaries, they may have been sent them to Harlem or Watts without ever crossing the big pond.

His next best qualification rests on his business accomplishments. His famous and privileged name led to serious offers to join scavengers of the highest degree. His lack of scruples throughout his life made him a natural. He and his bosses reaped millions in rewards for corrupting and bankrupting many ailing businesses by forcing them into debt and then selling them piece by piece to destroy the livelihood of millions of hard working Americans. They then took it all to the bank or overseas accounts to avoid U.S. taxes.

Among the most privileged and wealthiest among us, who actually has a car elevator built to deliver them to the door of their multi-million dollar home. He, Anne and his spoiled brats can not exit their car like most millionaires and billionaires to walk to an express elevator to their mansion. They must have a car elevator.

If your ideal candidate is Romney, I suggest you bend over and spread your cheeks as soon as he is sworn in. That sharp pain is not out of patriotic duty, but the cruel invasion of a greedy and heartless man that's giving you exactly what you deserve. Even if you have videos as proof, you need not ask him to own up to his perversion. He has a selective memory and will insist he was only looking out for your best interest.

dictionary72 -

How does gay marriage impact you directly? When do we get to vote on your marriage?

DMorgan,

"Because he was gay. If he even existed at all."

He may or may not have been gay. I wouldn't know since I never actually met the man. As far as the existence of Jesus is concerned, I think historians are generally satisfied that he was probably an actual historic figure. He is mentioned not only in the Bible, but also by some ancient pagan historians such as the Roman historian Tacitus as well as by the Jewish historian Josephus, both of whom were his contemporaries. The idea that Jesus may not have existed is more or less a holdover from 19th. century German "higher criticism" when it was fashionable to doubt everything pertaining to the Bible. Some people still prefer outdated ideas, though.

dictionary72,

"All of you pro homosexuality activists miss the point that nature is blatantly telling you. You want to make a political issue out of a mistake of nature."

Nature doesn't "tell" us anything. Nature is not a person. It is not an intelligent being at all, and that's the main problem I find with your post. You personalize nature throughout. You need to better define what you mean by nature. Is nature a sort of pseudo-scientific substitute for God? Many people, including many scientists, seem to use the word that way.

We need a person of principle in the Oval office, not a power monger who does what the polls indicate might get more votes.

Exactly!!

So why would anyone vote for Willard M. Romney?

He's a pathological liar, a flip-flopper, a panderer, a coward and a bully.

Add to that how he has spent his life: tearing apart companies and selling off the parts to make himself rich, at the expense of the workers' jobs and pension funds.

If that's your idea of character, I can only assume you are just like him.

OBAMA/BIDEN 2012

All of you pro homosexuality activists miss the point that nature is blatantly telling you. You want to make a political issue out of a mistake of nature.

Who are you to say that 'nature' makes mistakes?

We are making a political issue out of the denial of human and civil rights.

You are defending judgmentalism and bigotry.

Male homosexuals have testicals and produce sperm. Female homosexuals have their monthly cycle, ovaries and produce eggs. Nature intended them to be heterosexuals. They were created to reproduce. The men are not eunuchs and infertile. The women have ovaries and produce eggs. Nobody has asked why these people are homosexuals, (even though that is not the proper term) when they have nature's so called equipment to reproduce.

I'm so glad you have it all figured out.

"Nobody has asked why these people are homosexuals"??? What do you think homosexuals themselves do? Would it be remotely possible for you to suspend your judgment for a moment and try to put yourself in their shoes?

Don't go away mad...just go away.

Jamey; Romney spent a couple years in serving God in mission. How many days or hours have you spent, to give value to your criticism?

Romney, like every mormon male, spent 2 years as a cult salesman. Unlike most mormons, did it living in the lap of luxury. Hopefully he was completely unsucessful. Every mormon that thinks they are going to become like God and have their own planet, along with what ever woman or women they chose to live with is in for as big a shock when they close their eyes for the last time as every muslim that thinks there are 72 virgins waiting for them.

While we are on the subject of marrage, by the way, why not just go back to real tradition marrage, were it is between 1 man, and as many women as he has silver, gold, and sheep to bribe their fathers with?

Obama and Romney are not Socialist or Conservative, they are Fascists, period! They are playing the American electorate with the same old left vs right BS, with the gay marriage, contraception, and soon the abortion issue will be the forefront. It's an empirical fact, the previous Democrat presidency and democrat congress, or the previous GOP presidency and GOP congress have made things tougher, not better for the 'middle class down', but those at the top keep getting richer. The country is reaching economic failure, and Obama/Romney have track records of collusion with the fat cats aka Banksters, Wall Street and Corporate racketeers!
The social issues should be fought in the states, not by special interest bureaucrats in Washington or the Federal courts. Those who are falling for this misdirection with social issues, should recall how GWBush had both GOP controlled Houses, and nothing changed. There aren't the votes to make any change in Washington, but the states, with there 10th Amendment rights of Nulification, can end gay marriage, abortion, ect. Why trust the collectivist Fascists in Washington, who are deadlocked, the President can't wave a wand to change it, so it's never going to be changed. It can be in their own state, though if they lobby their state officials and push the 'Nulification' of the Federal intrusion.
Vote against Fascism, Vote for Freedom, Vote Ron Paul!!!

And for the humor of the day. The post I made 1.12 that has received 84 likes so far.

Guess who said it? While it is not a direct quote, it is close.

That is right, Ron Paul

Kind of says a little about how he has been misjudged, now doesn't it.

These beliefs should play no part in governing this nation.

If you choose to have religion, so be it. That religion should guide you in how you live and deal with others, and not be taken as a mandate to tell others how to live.

That seems pretty self-evident but I don't see that it means much here. Was it really his religious beliefs that led him to go on a mission during the peak of the Viet Nam War?Gee...it must have been tough to choose between VN and going to Paris to drink wine and find some more wives. And since the war dragged on for quite a while and their missions only last a few months, I wonder what his excuse is for the rest of the time. Did his religion lead him to escort a blind man into a wall or was that just his crazy sense of humor. I'll bet that blind guy laughed almost as hard as did the kid whose hair he cut. What a prankster. I wonder if he burned down any chanteys in poor town. That would really be hilarious...

Guess who said it? While it is not a direct quote, it is close.

That is right, Ron Paul

Kind of says a little about how he has been misjudged, now doesn't it.

Lots of crazy people say good things - It is the crazy stuff we need to be aware of.

If you are going for the Ron Paul angle here you are going for a man that will destroy this country.

When this nation was founded the wealthy rode horses the poor walked.

There was no internet, phone or electricity.

Jets didn't fly back and forth over the ocean and bombs weren't designed to blow up everything within miles.

Our forefathers built flexibility into the Constitution so that issues could be addressed when they arose.

Ron Paul wants to send us back in time to ignore those changes in the constitution that made this country better.

Paul believes an employer should be able to fire anyone they want for any reason - Including if you don't "put out".

He doesn't think there should be laws protecting employees from sexual harassment.

He even blames the employee.

Page 25 of the book HE WROTE:

Freedom Under Siege
The U.S. Constitution After 200 Years
by Ron Paul

Employee rights are said to be valid when employers pressure employees into sexual activity. Why don't they quit once the so-called harassment starts? Obviously the morals of the harasser cannot be defended, but how can the harassee escape some responsibility for the problem? Seeking protection under civil rights legislation is hardly acceptable. If force was clearly used, that is another story, but pressure and submission is hardly an example of a violation of one's employment rights.

The concept of equal pay for equal work is not only an impossible task, it can only be accomplished with the total rejection of the idea of the voluntary contract. By what right does the government assume the power to tell an airline it must hire unattractive women if it does not want to? The idea that a businessman must hire anyone and is prevented from firing anyone for any reason he chooses and in the name of rights is a clear indication that the basic concept of a free society has been lost.

Paul isn't for individual rights he is for Corporate rights - BIG CORPORATIONS.

Monopolies did more to destroy free trade and squash all competition. Our government passed anti trust legislation to put an end to those monopolies. Paul would like to put an end to the Sherman Antitrust Act and the Clayton Act of 1914.

From page 13 of his book:

During the twentieth century, America has gone through a transition that has radically changed the political system established by the Founding Fathers. Although many seeds of statism were sown in the nineteenth century, they have matured in the twentieth century.
The trends in legislation in this century are clearly anti-free-market, starting with the Sherman Antitrust Act passed in 1890 to the strong federal control over trade with the Clayton Act of 1914. With the establishment of the FTC to current-day regulations, this century has certainly witnessed a loss of confidence in a truly free market. Even the term "laissez faire" is universally shunned by all politicians who fear that in championing capitalism, support will be lost.

Ron Paul is all about the über rich getting richer and the rest of us being low paid slaves.

And Talk About Crazy:

On page 16:

America's $10 billion pornographic industry involves the coercive and violent use of children. This industry thrives, while the numbers of hungry and unemployed steadily rise. A nation without standards will see such industries thrive while farmers go bankrupt, oil wells are turned off, and steel mills are closed, and while foreigners outperform us in every industry.

I'm not an expert of how Porn works (and I don't intend to dig into it to find out) but I am pretty sure BECAUSE of Government intervention children have been saved from the illegal underage porn industry.

I'm pretty sure child Porn does not come from the American porn industry.

There is an underground of scumbags that trade these images. Some they create themselves but most are from those foreign countries that are "outperforming us".

His whole thought process is insane.

Paul's Free-market, without Government controls, would actually allow the Porn industry to get bigger and more out of control.

On page 17 he speaks on the immorality of Television Wrestling. Without government controls Television would be WORSE not better. Although I think the FCC gets a bit carried away, the Superbowl wardrobe malfunction being a prime example of overreacting. Without Government intervention porn would rule.

JOregon

It is your impression that Paul would destroy this country. I happen to believe he is right.

I am an employer. I should be able to pay someone who is only worth $5 an hour if that is all they are worth. I should also be able to pay someone who is worth $30 an hour without government intervention. That is what gets businesses the best employees, being willing to pay for them. That is free market, and those that hire the shmucks will get what they pay for, less revenue because of quality.

People seem to believe that our government can cure all ills. That is the most ridiculous supposition ever to be played on the public. It is all about special interest, both far right and far left, leaving 80% in the middle @!$%#ed. When was the last program other than welfare that government regulation put one penny in your pocket?

And quite honestly, your perception that the changes that have been made to the Constitution have made the country better. My perception is that they have created a welfare state where people have no motivation to do well for themselves, but to feel owed. For instance, Health care is not a @!$%#ing right, access to health care if you are willing to work for it is a right.

As for the porn industry, really, that is your argument? If an employee is harassed, there is precedence in law that goes back a hundred years that allows for lawsuits. Government regulations have not changed the fact that bosses still want some strange from their employees. Lawsuits do change it. Government doesn't.

You may believe that the government will save you. What even remotely makes you think they give a flying @!$%# about you?

John

I am an employer.

You want the right to demand sex from anyone you want. Straight or Gay if they won't abide by your wishes you want the right to fire them - That is what Paul supports.

Paul:

Seeking protection under civil rights legislation is hardly acceptable. If force was clearly used, that is another story, but pressure and submission is hardly an example of a violation of one's employment rights.

You want slave labor.

You know there are good people in high unemployment areas that will take what they can. You will "Lay them off" when they begin to want more. Of course if illness hits one of their kids you know they will be even more desperate to work longer hours for less money to pay for the medical bill because you won't give them insurance.

I should be able to pay someone who is only worth $5 an hour if that is all they are worth. I should also be able to pay someone who is worth $30 an hour without government intervention.

You want Monopolies back?????

And quite honestly, your perception that the changes that have been made to the Constitution have made the country better.

I'm betting your company would be crushed.

As for the porn industry, really, that is your argument?

No, that is just one example of how crazy he is.

No, lawsuits would keep me from demanding sex from my employees. Not the government, and actually, my moral code would never allow that to happen.

No, I am willing to pay for the best, and expect the best out of them.

No, that is not a monopoly, it is the free market telling people if they want more, do more.

No, because my company gives a quality product at a reasonable price. There will always be value in that.

lawsuits would keep me from demanding sex from my employees

The lawsuits are possible because we have laws to protect people - Paul wants to eliminate those laws.

No, I am willing to pay for the best, and expect the best out of them.

In areas of high unemployment businesses will will pay as little as possible knowing desperate people will accept it - Free Market remember?

No, that is not a monopoly, it is the free market telling people if they want more, do more.

Paul wants to eliminate the Sherman Antitrust Act and the Clayton Act of 1914. Those Acts were made Law to end Monopolies.

No, because my company gives a quality product at a reasonable price. There will always be value in that.

Until someone moves into your market with a similar product at a quarter the price. A multibillionaire is able to hemorrhage money until they own the market. Then prices go back up. That was the world before the Sherman Antitrust Act and the Clayton Act of 1914.

Paul in power would kill this nation.

No, lawsuits are there because of precedence of law through the judiciary, not through legislation.

A boss generally always wants to pay as little as possible, but that doesn't mean that better companies will not pay better. The government trying to legislate mediocracy in employment is like giving participation trophies to all kids even though some of them suck.

That has already happened in my business, and I am still here because of what my business does and through customer service.

Your opinion, not mine.

16 Trillion in debt. Even if the only thing he can accomplish is to cut that in half, it would be well worth your fear of the unknown. Better than 24 Trillion in four years that it will be if either of the other two bozo's get elected.

The right seems to want to return to a simpler age, an idea in their consciousness where everything was better, safer free-er, with right and wrong clearly defined, folks knowing their place etc. A wonderful idea except IT IS A FALSE HISTORY!

There is a reason trade unions came into power throughout history and especially in the US with its particular form of capitalism. Simple rights and wrongs sometimes evolves opinions like suffrage and civil rights. Information is key. History needs to be understood and built upon, not rewritten to benefit the status que.

Ron Paul looks at the world through old white male glasses, We need a president who wears no glasses.

The Cabal The Fraud of Religiosity -

I posted of the attack on secular rights by the coalescence of the relegulous fanatics and the pathological capitalist but my theory: that the immense power now due to "citizens united" tied to their immense wealth, endanger our core freedoms and liberties our inalienable rights as a free people not subject to some Catholic Bishops doctrines, Lorie I think is his name?

I would point out of all the special entitlements that of being tax free and using this tax free money along with the likes of ALEC and their other 1% tax fraud friends i.e. using this mountain of money to buy the country the people could be made to poor to fight back and too weak minded to see the larceny...the whole idea my antagonist found "incomprehensible" so no rebuttal was needed.

Just say "incomprehensible" no need to address the Mormon and Catholic agendas and their immense sized mammon wealth oh so much of that money what to do with all of those mammon Billions? Oh yes how to buy the United States of America is their master plan? That plan being drawn up in secret on the inaugural night was that the night to undermine and sabotage the presidency was first hatched? Which night was it? It was some special night for the president of the United States but a cabal was in motion when was that evening? Hum....I know incomprehensible.

Okay I suppose the facts don't matter the money the freedoms and liberties all the rest do not matter it is all "incomprehensible"....and so it goes.

@Persevere,

Agreed. First they preach then they use peer pressure. For the stubborn its ostracizing. Still not buying it well then we legislate and punish.

American religious talibanism.

BoredwithsameO

Please don't lump Paul in with the religious whack-job right, because he is not. No, he is not a god, but I will gladly give him my vote if he can balance the budget, and give us back our rightly freedoms guaranteed in the Constitution. I gladly, would like to see "conservative" mean what it used to, and that is to not spend every dime you get your hands on.

Let me put it this way. Congresses and Presidents had no right to permanently take our privacies with the Patriot Act. They also had no right to allow one man, the President to hold my rights to due process. They also had no right to take my freedom to protest my government. I hold them all accountable.

John

No, lawsuits are there because of precedence of law through the judiciary, not through legislation.

The Judiciary does not create Law. They interpret law and they apply law.

The Laws are created by Legislature. Paul wants to eliminate the Laws that protect citizens.

A boss generally always wants to pay as little as possible, but that doesn't mean that better companies will not pay better.

When you are in a small job market there generally aren't companies to compete. You open the door for an employer to pay a substandard wage because they are the only employer.

Already we have people working 2 part time jobs to make ends meet, in your world we have people working even more.

I know the argument, "move to where there are more jobs." In today's world that means leaving your children behind with your ex. Few are willing to make that move. I sure wouldn't.

That has already happened in my business, and I am still here because of what my business does and through customer service.

You really need to go back and study history, you have no idea what a REAL monopoly is. I'm not talking Walmart here.

16 Trillion in debt. Even if the only thing he can accomplish is to cut that in half, it would be well worth your fear of the unknown.

Paul wouldn't be able to touch that.

Obama has had to fight the GOP on anything he wanted to do. Paul would be fighting both the Republicans and Democrats.

No, law is precedence. Laws that have been enacted are a direct result of one judge or another interpreting the Constitution differently.

I am in Minneapolis, which is not a small job market, and those that are good, work, and those that aren't can either work harder or find another job. It is not my responsibility to determine an employees self viewed perception of what their standard of living should be. If they want I-pads for the whole family, get a second job. Not my problem if I am paying them a fair wage. Fair wage is determined by free market and profit margin, not by the employee.

What makes you believe I haven't lived through history. I saw the breakup of ma bell. Now we just have a monopoly of four or five companies that price fix. Same thing. Or gas companies. They price fix from across the street. Still a monopoly.

That is where you are wrong. Congress controls the purse strings, but the President implements payment. He can simply not fund. It is within the Presidents right. He can cut all foreign funding for instance, and I don't believe even Congress can override.

I voted for Obama, but in 3.5 years I have seen nothing but broken promises that were well within his ability. plus I can not make myself vote for someone who failed in the one thing that he took an oath to defend. Defend the Constitution. Renewal of the Patriot Act, NDAA, and HR 347 should have been vetoed. No ifs ands or buts.

dictionary 72 - maybe you should look up the word "bigot" because it describes you perfectly. You have no business in anyone's bedroom - neither does Romney or anyone else.

Do you actually believe anyone would choose to be homosexual and have to deal with idiots like you? Do you think they choose to be harassed and put down by uneducated dolts who feel better if they belittle someone because they are different? You probably think they do make a choice because you don't have two brain cells to rub together.

If Romney becomes president the middle class is doomed because his only allegiance is to the rich. Do you know what happens when the middle class disappears? So does the country. If you follow history you'll find it is the middle class that keeps the country rooted. It is the middle class that is it's foundation - not the rich. But you are too stupid to see that.

And, when Romney decides on another war, do you think he will send his sons or those of his mormon friends? Nope - they'll be your sons and daughters. Just like Bush - it's okay for you but he'll be damned if his children will go.

Romney is the death of this country.

Obama/Biden 2012

John

judiciary
adj

(Law) of or relating to courts of law, judgment, or judges

n pl -aries
1. (Law) the branch of the central authority in a state concerned with the administration of justice Compare executive [2] legislature
2. (Law) the system of courts in a country
3. (Law) the judges collectively; bench

While I don't usually like to use Wikipedia this does make it pretty simple:

The judiciary (also known as the judicial system) is the system of courts that interprets and applies the law in the name of the state. The judiciary also provides a mechanism for the resolution of disputes. Under the doctrine of the separation of powers, the judiciary generally does not make law (that is, in a plenary fashion, which is the responsibility of the legislature) or enforce law (which is the responsibility of the executive), but rather interprets law and applies it to the facts of each case.

(Bold letters are mine for focus)

You moan that you should be able to pay someone that is only worth $5/hr $5. Here is a unique thought, why not let those people that don't perform go. Get someone that is worth what you have to pay them.

It is not my responsibility to determine an employees self viewed perception of what their standard of living should be. If they want I-pads for the whole family, get a second job.

We aren't talking about people that make enough for I-Pads. At your preferred $5.00/hr or even minimum wage we are talking about people having to choose between food or medical care. Doesn't matter if you have insurance if you can't pay the deductible you go without.

I saw the breakup of ma bell. Now we just have a monopoly of four or five companies that price fix.

Evidence?

I cannot vote for a party that wants to oppose the constitution and run it based on their religion.

I cannot vote for a party that has succeeded and building the largest gap between the have's and the have not's in history.

I cannot support anyone that doesn't care for the average American only the wealthy.

I will not vote for someone that has no understanding of the common man.

Just for the record, I pay my guys a heck of a lot more than $5 and hour. I used that as a reference to point out that some workers are not worth what others are. Other than unionization where the worthless are paid the same as the priceless, how can the government even remotely legislate a thing like that.

Evidence of price fixing or that I am old? I will go with the price fixing. The next time you go into a gas station, ask them how they arrive at their price. Guaranteed, they will state either corporate or that they are matching the station across the street. I have asked many many times, basically because my truck gets 9 mpg.

As I have stated, Paul wants to run it based on the Constitution. Also I have stated how the President has violated his oath to do the same.

Do you know what has caused the largest gap between the rich and poor? The Fed doubling the money supply. Every time they do it you get 50 cents and they give the rest to the rich.

What could be better for the common man than not allowing the Fed to devalue every dollar everyone makes. When you make $50,000 a year, and the same fifty grand will only buy $43,000 worth of goods the next year, what could be better for the common man than to make that bleeding stop.

Perhaps understanding that the man you seem to hate is an OBGYN and has delivered over 4000 babies, has done work pro-bono instead of charging medicare, and has represented a very poor district in Texas, and they kept voting for him. What does that say.

Other than unionization where the worthless are paid the same as the priceless, how can the government even remotely legislate a thing like that.

The Government doesn't legislate that, the Union does. That company can choose to eliminate the union but the fight and monetary loss usually isn't worth it.

At one time the unions served a purpose, today they crush the economy.

I will go with the price fixing. The next time you go into a gas station, ask them how they arrive at their price. Guaranteed, they will state either corporate or that they are matching the station across the street.

That isn't price fixing, that is competition. That is how all businesses establish the value of their product. Some companies will sell the gas higher than others because they know people will pay a higher amount for perceived quality and short lines.

Price fixing means they get together and discuss what price they want to sell the gas for. Then everyone sells for that price.

"Price fixing is a conspiracy between business competitors to set their prices to buy or sell goods or services at a certain price point." - freeadvice.com

Ron Paul does not want to run it on the constitution, he wants to overturn many laws which are allowed by the constitution.

Other than the debatable issue of Libya, where has Obama violated his oath?

Perhaps understanding that the man you seem to hate is an OBGYN and has delivered over 4000 babies, has done work pro-bono instead of charging medicare, and has represented a very poor district in Texas, and they kept voting for him. What does that say.

The people of Texas also liked George Bush and Rick Perry. So what?

Just because he was a doctor doesn't mean he is qualified to be President and it certainly doesn't mean he cares about the little guy.

He is crazy.

Anyone that thinks the porn industry is causing farmers to go broke is crazy.

America's $10 billion pornographic industry involves the coercive and violent use of children. This industry thrives, while the numbers of hungry and unemployed steadily rise. A nation without standards will see such industries thrive while farmers go bankrupt, oil wells are turned off, and steel mills are closed, and while foreigners outperform us in every industry.

From Page 16

That is 100% Crazy.

And on Page 17

There are times when it seems like we get our system of values from television productions. Professional wrestling is one of the few programs which started on TV in the late 1940s and now claims more viewers than ever. There are no rules, and it is associated with contrived (but unreal) violence: mockery of the referee, racism, absence of sportsmanship, yelling, screaming, and hatred.
Reasonable rules of decency are totally ignored. The shows get worse every year; belts, chains, and cages are now part of the acts. Twenty wrestlers are put into a ring without a referee and a free-for-all erupts -- the more violent, the more the crowd cheers the ridiculous charade.

He is complaining about Television wrestling?

In his world of no government control decent folk would welcome television wrestling. CRAZY.

I don't care if he is the mirror image of Mother Teresa he is Nuts.

I would argue that by signing NDAA and HR 347 and continuing and advancing the Patriot Act the President is committing perjury of oath, a high crime against the people of the US.

http://constitution.org/cmt/high_crimes.htm

Paul is not crazy, he is writing about the morality of society. And he is right.

What a Phoney Romney is, l think the time has come to kick the GOP and their nutty Baggers out of our Country !

John

While it is YOUR OPINION it is a high crime the legal authorities don't agree. For good reason.

Here is a bit of information on NDAA.

http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/confused-about-ndaa-and-detention-provision

As it says at the end:

As far as the politics go, when both houses of Congress have passed it with a veto-proof majority, I doubt there will be a veto forthcoming. The President could sign it and add a signing statement to the more troubling provisions. While this would certainly get some criticism from the right wing given his criticism of President Bush's use of signing statements, a signing statement would offer some clarity and political cover for signing a bill that had no hope of having a veto sustained. But whether or not he decides to go that route, it's worth reading and bookmarking Witte's post for reference, because the misinformation is flying around the Internet in a swarm right now. Ron Paul supporters, in particular, seem to be spreading mountains of misinformation. But that's a story for another post.

HR 347 is another attempt to twist the facts to create something from nothing.

There was nothing illegal about jumping over the Whitehouse fence and running across the grounds the Secret Service wanted this law to help security.

Nobody has or will lose their right to free speech or their right to protest.

Much ado about nothing. More dishonest spin from the Ron Paul fan club.

Paul is not crazy, he is writing about the morality of society. And he is right.

You apparently did not read what he said.

He accused the American Porn Industry of distributing child porn - That is a Lie. Lying is apparently common with Paul and his supporters.

Then he twists it to blame that child porn for America's under-performance against foreign countries.

The truth is the Child Porn comes from many of those countries that happen to be outperforming us. (Face Palm)

The American Porn industry will not touch child porn, too much to lose.

There was so much spin on what he said I thought I was on a top.

You think he is about morality?????

He thinks it is the employers right to demand sex from anyone he wants. He says it is the employers RIGHT to fire anyone that won't put out. Consider the boss demanding straight sex from a gay or gay sex from a straight.

That may be your morality but it sure isn't mine.

If it is only my opinion, why are their lawsuits filed to argue the Constitutionality.

I have read NDAA, and the article that you linked does not explain that while it is not required that the military detain American citizens, it does not mean they can't. And like I wrote earlier, I hold Congress accountable for perjury of oath also.

HR 347 is an old law that was revamped. The changes make it a felony to even "unknowingly" protest the government in any place that the secret service deems in the interest of national security. Which could be anywhere. It was a change specific to bust up the occupiers.

And, yes, it is about morality. When our kids start acting like people from the Jersey Shore, Kardashians, and the Housewives of wherever, our morality is shot. And it is your interpretation that he would ever want employers to demand sex or be able to fire any employee that won't put out. Your as bad at perverting the truth as you claim Paul supporters do.

why are their lawsuits filed to argue the Constitutionality.

People will sue for ANY reason.

Wait until the lawsuits are over - then decide.

You are not the judge are you?

That is why we have courts. It is America you know. What does the constitution say about the right to a trial? Innocence? So far it is your opinion and a handful of people that may or may not have another agenda.

And, yes, it is about morality.

In Paul's morality the employer has the right to demand sex from the employees. He says so clearly in his own words.

Employee rights are said to be valid when employers pressure employees into sexual activity. Why don't they quit once the so-called harassment starts?

...

Seeking protection under civil rights legislation is hardly acceptable. If force was clearly used, that is another story, but pressure and submission is hardly an example of a violation of one's employment rights.

...

The idea that a businessman must hire anyone and is prevented from firing anyone for any reason he chooses and in the name of rights is a clear indication that the basic concept of a free society has been lost.

There are pretty high level organizations that have lawsuits in process. Google them. I am an American citizen, so yes I am a judge, and it bothers me when people hold our rights so cheap, and play party politics.

I guess we will see, sort of like the Healthcare bill.

You really need to get over thinking Paul wants buggering in the workplace or else. Your quotes are out of context as to what he is saying. You must have issues.

Your quotes are out of context as to what he is saying. You must have issues.

Read his words for yourself, I gave you the link.

You are in denial.

Romney being a Mormon is irrelavent.

Morman's are not killing Christians muslim/islamiist are.

IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE THAT OBAMA IS A MUSLIM JUST ASK HIM OR BETTER
YET JUST WATCH AND HE WILL TELL YOU!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28<http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?

It's spelled irrelevant and Mormon, Jo, and you are a liar as well as being pathetically semi-literate.

Clearly this college was hard up for a speaker!

Heaven forbid that an institution of higher learning would invite an accomplished person with a different background speak at their commencement - especially a candidate for the highest office in the USA. I suppose it depends how secure someone is about their own judgement to consider alternative points of view. I believe such fear is the source of much ignorance and prejudice today.

Didn't the students protest him coming there to speak?

Didn't Mormons used to believe that marriage was between a man and a woman, and another woman, and another woman...........

Joel, you consider Liberty a place of higher learning?

Actually Mormons STILL belileve in polygamy (just not here on earth). It was a central tenant of their faith until they were thrown in jail and also wanted statehood. Then God changed his mind (flip flopped?) and outlawed polygamy. So few people know what Mormonism really teaches. Perhaps they should investigate a little further before considering voting for Mr. Romney. Did y'all know that Joseph Smith ran for POTUS? Ultimate power in the U.S. has long been a goal of Mormonism. They even hint that the Mormon Priesthood will save the constitution when it's "hanging by a thread". Google Mormon beliefs sometime. You will be shocked.

Marriage debate is not about morality or religion. I could care less about moral or religious aspects and I have friends that are gay. I think the government should have no say in marriage but you cannot get married and then not declare the marriage with the government, otherwise you arrested for fraud. I wanted to get married by a priest and not take out a marriage license because it was cheaper for taxes... and was told it is illegal. Why not? I thought there is separation of church and state? Guess what...it's not! It's about money and inheritance rights, medical, tax benefits for dependents etc. It has nothing to do with civil rights. It has to do with the functioning structure and of society and the consequences and $$$ involved. It will permeate cost into educational materials and healthcare. Do whatever you all want but do not send me the bill.

• !

#11.4 - Sat May 12, 2012 2:18 PM CDT

@newday, there is no bullying going on here, you must be think of that Rev. Wright of Obama fame.

That said, Evangelicals do not have a corner on the "believeing in Jesus" market and they need to realize that. It gets old, is arrogant and counter-productive.

Eric, but likewise, most believe(d) marriage should only be between those of an opposite sex and definitely only those of the same race. Don't you see how vapid your comment really is. As much as I cannot comprehend the desire for polygamy, imho seeing as it is personal choice, what difference does it make to YOU if they chose to have more than one spouse?

Or I could be really Politically Incorrect and ask the rhetorical question: Is it better to have a husband supporting several spouses and their children or a bunch of single Moms with children with the father nowhere to be found?

I am an athiest for a reason. Like Ghandi, "I like your Christ, just not your Christians". So we accused Obama of being a Muslim, which is allowed if you believe in the constitution, but in America we believe in the constitution as a by product of the Christian faith and not seperate from government.

Once he convinced everyone he was a card carrying member of the Jesus Christians, he got the nod. Now we are going to go after Mitt for being a mormon?

I am not voting GOP no matter if Jesus himself came back wearing a "Mitt 2012" t-shirt, but I still think his religious affiliation should hold no bearing on whether he is qualified for the position of POTUS.

I am tired of the Christian "lobby" claiming ownership of our goverment. We are not a christian nation, we are a democracy based in the tradition of freedom, not religion. Time to stop blending church and state.

"Actually Mormons STILL belileve in polygamy (just not here on earth)."

Actually, here on earth, Colorado City, Arizona....Hilldale, Utah....Churchwells, Utah.... etc. are Mormon communities that not only still practice polygamy, the girls are raised to accept the fact that when they reach 12yrs of age, they could be given to one of the elders as a new wife...and domestic slave by the community leader. Jeffs being one such leader. Oh, and most of the boy children, tend to "fall out of God's graces" and exiled from the community. (These boys are a threat to the elders who lust for thoughs avalible girls for themselves.) Here in Northern Arizona, they are known as the Lost Boys.

Such a wonderful way of life...AMEN!!

Just proves what disrespectful racists they are....They will have a Mormon give the speech before a black man even though they teach that Mormonism is a cult....To bigoted southerners a white cult member is better than 3/5 of a man( or whatever the fraction was that they used in the Constitution)....Bottom line they still want this country to be the bastion of freedom for white male Anglo-Saxon protestants and if mitt will sign legislation accordingly they will vote for him...So if you are an Italian-American or Catholic or Atheist or Female and are a racist take that into account....The Klan is not really on your side they just want your vote like they want Romney's pen...

Lunar pup----The LDS don't want to openly associate with this,but they started it...Kinda like the GOP doesn't openly associate with the Klan but they sure do wink at it,like Socialist,Kenyan,Muslim,Terrorist,Appeaser etc. and of course all of their watermelon at the white-house joke pictures and Obama's pic on the food-stamp etc..And the sad thing is people will actually not vote for Obama because of this even though honestly they agree with him more than Mittens..

I try very hard to have respect for the beliefs of those whose religion and/or conscience leads them to believe differently than I do. I don't tell them how to live their life. The problem I have with those on the right is that they don't offer me the same courtesy.

You better check to see the name of the "Mormon" church that believes and practices polygamy. It is NOT the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Who does he think he's fooling? He lies every single time he opens his mouth. Last time I checked, that's not exactly model Christian behavior.

OK Mitt. That's enough on social issues for a month or two.

Yep, that's right John. Sweep it under the rug like a good Republican. Well, they don't have any answers for the economy other than the Ryan Plan. So maybe it's best to stick to what works for them. Fear and anger.

@Eric....

politifact.com is a left leaning, liberal website disguising itself as a legitimate news source. What a joke. Nice that you choose something that falsely supports all your liberal viewpoints.

Also, check your facts buddy. The country does not overwhelmingly support gay marriage....

A 2011 poll by the Washington, D.C.-based Public Religion Research Institute found that support for gay marriage is twice as high among people who have a close friend or family member who is gay. While 47 percent of Americans favor gay marriage, according to the poll, that number rises to 64 percent among people with intimate ties to gays and lesbians, and falls to 37 percent among respondents without that personal connection.

Fail.

In addition, gay marriage was defeated in North Carolina by a majority of democratic districts that were overwhelming African American. People who have similar political views to you said no to it.

I am an athiest for a reason. Like Ghandi, "I like your Christ, just not your Christians".

Yeah Kevin S, Ghandi was a racist. Are you telling me that you are the same?

I am tired of the Christian "lobby" claiming ownership of our goverment. We are not a christian nation, we are a democracy based in the tradition of freedom, not religion. Time to stop blending church and state.

Despite what you might believe, we were once a christian nation even though the constitution made it seem that there is no preference. The country was founded on christian freedom;at that point in time, 90% of the people were christians. Our freedoms were based upon the bible. Don't like it? Well, that's just too bad. If atheists like yourselves wish to quote from the founding fathers, make sure you do it for all the founding fathers. And for the record, we are not a democracy, we are a republic.

“It can not be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ!” For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." - Patrick Henry - Speech to the Virginia House of Burgesses, May 1765

Gay marriage was defeated in North Carolina mostly by an African American democratic, left leaning majority. It wasnt Republicans that carried this it was all the people the liberals call their own. Enough said.

Riley, you Teabagger Republicans are good at making up lies and believing them true. I can't tell you how big of a liar you are! Enough said!

Dear Unhappy-1583758

Wake up and smell the constitution. This country is now and has always been a nation of many faiths. Yes Christianity was and still is the dominant faith but that does not make America a "Christian Nation". Please try to show some respect to your fellow Americans who do not share your religious beliefs.

"To keep the sanctity of marriage, it should only be between one man and several women living in a Mormon polygamist commune hidden in Mexico."

- Romney's pappy

No offense mormons, but reality is that if the government was not threatening to shut down your religion that was polygamist you would not have had the split between FDLS and LDS.

In fact, I often wonder if the government decided to recognize polygamist marriages how quickly the desire for reversion to polygamy would go in the LDS. It's in your book, the words and action of Joseph Smith.

Mr Obama will be come out supporting interspecies marriage if it will buy him a few votes.

Oh, good: onward Christian soldiers, marching off to bully others in the name of "faith".

You might have something there. Obama calls himself a Christian and he torments, bullies and physically shoves little black girls according to his own book. Quite a guy. You must be so proud! Beats up on little girls, is that what liberal men do?

NH_Shellback

Out of curiosity; If that happened would your species vote for the President?

CEO2NV2

Be careful not to slip in that big puddle of B.S. you just dumped on the floor.

Romney=Establishment (bought and paid for by Goldman Sachs)

Obama=Establishment (bought and paid for by Goldman Sachs)

Ron Paul=Anti-Establishment (bought and paid for by the American people)

Help bring peace back into this world, please consider Ron Paul for president.

BigAl Las Vegas, apparently you haven't taken the time to read Obama's books. He readily admits to continuously picking on an overweight black girl in his class. He even admits shoving her (assault & battery). Why don't you get educated about your apparently violent pot smoking crack head candidate.

David-does everyone who meets you describe you as boring or only most people? I think it is everyone.

Don't think people listen to you. They don't.

@Riley, politifact is not left leaning in the least and calls them like they seem them.

When FOX gets to be fair and balanced let me know.

Despite what you might believe, we were once a christian nation even though the constitution made it seem that there is no preference.

There is no mention of any "God" or "Jesus" anywhere in the Constitution, which is the foundation of our legal system. There is not one single scriptural reference in the Constitution, it is purely secular and not the least bit sectarian. That's not "make it seem", there really IS no preference.

The country was founded on christian freedom;at that point in time, 90% of the people were christians. Our freedoms were based upon the bible.

The Bible says very little about freedom, but it does say a lot about rules, commandments, and strict obedience, with the death penalty for even minor transgressions. Our freedoms are not to be found anywhere in the scriptures, no mention of "freedom of the Press", or "Freedom to peaceably assemble" or "freedom to petition for redress of grievances". Our system of selecting our leaders is not found in the Bible, either, which makes a big deal about "God's chosen leaders".

Oh, and that quote by Patrick Henry? Patrick Henry was not involved in the writing of the Constitution, or any of the Amendments, when they called for leaders to attend the Convention to write a Constitution, he refused and said "I smell a rat". Probably because many of the authors of the Constitution were not the same type of religious fanatics that Patrick Henry was.

Therefore, that quote is irrelevant.

Voter-in-LA

Eric, but likewise, most believe(d) marriage should only be between those of an opposite sex and definitely only those of the same race. Don't you see how vapid your comment really is. As much as I cannot comprehend the desire for polygamy, imho seeing as it is personal choice, what difference does it make to YOU if they chose to have more than one spouse?

The point is that of hypocrisy in regard to Romney and his faith as it applies to his pandering that he believes in marriage of "one man and one woman." If he really believes that then he either does not know his doctrine or disagrees with it.

Dr. Soos

Actually Mormons STILL belileve in polygamy (just not here on earth).

That's correct. When couples are "sealed" in the temple for eternity, a man remains sealed to all previous wives after divorce unless the wife remarries in the temple and chooses to be "sealed" to a new husband -- She can choose which man, but she cannot be "sealed" to more than one man. I wonder how many members of the LDS church really understand that this is polygamy and embrace it?

This is NOT to be confused with off-shoot organizations that actually practice polygamy against the law. As for inter-racial marriages, this also goes to show the hypocrisy of "one man and one woman" especially for the Mormon faith, which did not allow blacks to hold the priesthood until 1978. A Mormon woman would not marry a man who could not hold the priesthood.

The hypocrisy, and for that matter lies that marriage has been as it is now for thousands of years is a crock of crap.

Eric-913730 -- Agreed. PoltiFact makes a concerted effort NOT to lean to the Left, to the point they skew their meter to the Right of the facts they publish above it. I just read the facts and ignore the meter.

CM-6969 -- Agreed again. Only about three of the Ten Commandments apply to common law, and the rest are purely religious. Yet the religious-Right want the Commandments posted in courthouses, public schools, etc. The whole "God being thrown out of the public square" is merely Separation of Church and State, and anything supported with tax dollars. Anything paid for with tax dollars taken from those of different faiths or no faith should be secular. "Secular" is a dirty word now, like 'liberal" and compromise." Uh no, we are not supposed to be a theocracy with Sharia Law.

NH_Shellback

Out of curiosity; If that happened would your species vote for the President?

No myself and my fellow Homo sapiens with a highly developed brain, capable of abstract reasoning, language, introspection, and problem solving will be voting for Mitt Romney instead of the empty suit currently hanging in the White House.

BigAl Las Vegas, And what will the you and the rest of Canis latrans be doing?

Riley, you Teabagger Republicans are good at making up lies and believing them true. I can't tell you how big of a liar you are! Enough said!

Number 1. I am not a Tea Party Republican. I am an Independant and I have voted both Democratic and Republican in presidential and local primaries and elections.

Number 2. I am not lying. Proof? Here is the link.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/black-americans-more-likely-to-oppose-gay-marriage-but-obamas-new-view-doesnt-faze-them/2012/05/11/gIQA0QDoIU_story.html

Quote from that article?

On Tuesday, Givens voted in favor of banning gay marriage in North Carolina. Many black precincts voted 2-1 for the ballot measure, which passed easily.

These are Democratic districts that voted OVERWHELMINGLY for Obama.

Who is the liar now tough guy?

Unhappy: Yeah Kevin S, Ghandi was a racist. Are you telling me that you are the same?

Yes, unhappy -- members of the KKK are christians. Are you telling me that you are the same?

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China personally i don't give a rats ass about gay marriage the difference here is using political manipulation against 2 pawns- the church and the LGBT community-the left and the right to create a wedge partisan issue to garner votes.

They don't care what the church thinks the only thing they want is recognition from the Goverment to give them money via taxes, and divorce and parental rights.

Now considering from the mouth of the great big O he said it was a state right then why is the Government chiming in now of all times?

I thought you guys were freedom loving Constitution lovers...shouldn't you be happy that your Presdient (yes...YOUR President) is coming out for EQUALITY and defending peoples freedom to love and marry who they want.

Or do you have stiulations on Freedom and Equality?

The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, drafted by James Madison, declares that Congress "shall pass no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Madison's friend and mentor Thomas Jefferson was proud of his role in drafting and winning assent to Virginia's religious liberty law (1786). In a letter of 1802, he referred to the need for a "high wall of separation" between church and state. Both men considered religious liberty not just a convenient political response to the actual diversity of denominations in the new Republic but as a natural right.

I'm not saying gay marriage is right. In fact, for all I know, it could be a moral abomination. We're not talking about a math equation or the rotational orbit of Jupiter here. We're talking about what people's consciences are telling them, and my thoughts on the decency or indecency of gay marriage are no more inherently right than anyone else's.

As a result, I'm not going to tell you what the hell to think. Truth be told, I don't really give a @!$%#. If you believe homosexual sex acts will land people in Hell, warn your friends. If you believe homosexuals have nothing to be ashamed of, go hug some gay dudes. Your thoughts don't affect anyone else's lives, except, of course, when they're written into a state's constitution.

The battle for the soul of America and the battle for the moral path this country will follow into the future shouldn't be fought in a courtroom or a voting booth. It should be fought every single morning by hard-working people trying to do the right thing.

If you think your neighbor isn't living correctly, use him as motivation to achieve your own goals. If you think the girl down the street is a slut, make wise decisions so you don't end up like her. If you think gay marriage is wrong, share those feelings with your loved ones, but always remember, those are your opinions, not excuses to force people into behaving how you would.

I'm not saying gay marriage is right, but against and banning it is definitely wrong.

Mr Barack Obama Capacity as American private citizen,a family man and as devoted christian he against it But As President of United States he support it.

Brilliant President of United States of America decision.

To distinguish between the "RIGHT " of a Private Citizen & President of United States of America.

Obama/Biden 2012

No Rob: you and winemaker get tossed for being re regs. Against the rules, though I know that people like you don't believe the rules apply to them.

Your anger is misplaced. While I understand that conspiracy theories are the raison d'etre of the right winger, quit telling lies about people that you don't even know.

In addition, gay marriage was defeated in North Carolina by a majority of democratic districts that were overwhelming African American.

If you think they're going to vote for Romney in Nov. because of that poll, you're delusional. And don't give me that independent voter crap.

Rob in MA - is that all you have to complain about? Wahhhh, someone gets there before me, waaahhhhh, I think they're cheating, waahhhh, I wanna win! You sound like a damn two year old.

tony: you are fast becoming one of my favorite people that post.

Rob, this will come as a REAL shock to you:

everyone that posts on Newsvine is paid!

Go to the black toolbar and click on earnings. You have been paid too if you had been smart enough to look before you got booted!

New conspiracy theory folks: Rob is a paid poster by this network to stir up controversy! GASP! However will the world survive this revelation!

Complaining?

Definition of COMPLAIN

: to express grief, pain, or discontent <complaining about the weather>

: to make a formal accusation or charge

Not complaining Tony, not my style.

You could've fooled me, Rob.

Simply pointing out how corrupt MSNBC and Newvine are.

That's funny, I say the same thing about FOX, And no one's forcing you to be here.

People should know that Fisty Redhead and probably several others are paid by this network to propagandize for the failure in the White House.

Man, don't make me laugh. How much does Rove pay you guys. I reiterate: waaaahhhhhhh!

Sorry, just gotta respond to this twisted post from Unhappy-1583758

Despite what you might believe, we were once a christian nation even though the constitution made it seem that there is no preference. The country was founded on christian freedom;at that point in time, 90% of the people were christians. Our freedoms were based upon the bible. Don't like it? Well, that's just too bad.

I've spent decades studying the founding of our nation, and this post is pure BS. At that time, in the 13 states, only one in seven (14.3%) were Christian and in the deep south, it was only one in fifteen (6.7%).

NONE of our freedoms were based on the Bible. Thomas Jefferson wrote that "The Christians and their clergy will follow the bark of liberty only with the help of a tow rope."

Anybody who suggests that "there is no separation of church and state" in the Constitution is spitting in the faces of the men who wrote the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights.

Jim: You are exactly right. Jefferson also painstakingly traced back the development of law in society. His conclusion was that law predates Christianity, therefore it is incorrect to say that Christians or the Ten Commandments were the bedrock of law.

NH Shellback - no only have you not evolved into a human being, you haven't even lost your tail yet.

Intelligent, evolved human beings will be voting for Barack Obama again, knowing that a vote for Mitt Romney is a vote to destroy this country. When the middle class becomes extinct, so does the country - something you and dear Mitts don't have clue about. Not that I think you are anything other than middle class - you're just one of the stupid ones.

You and people like you prove every day there is not sanity in the GOP!

Obama/Biden 2012

"The Fool is back" ?????????????????????????

I see Rob got bounced again. Good!

Very true.

Thank you izandroro, I am a Christian and a hypocrite, because I can quote God's word but can't follow it. No one can, and that's the point. God has NOTHING to do with the actions of men and women, except give us the free will by which we condemn ourselves.

These politicians and supporters who invoke God's name and quote Scripture are the worst hypocrites of all, because they mislead believers and potential believers in their lust for power and money. Those are the things you worship when you follow Satan.

The so called Christian leaders of this country are as anti-Biblical as anyone can get. This Christian University is anything but, as are all these institutions that teach "their" own version of God's Word.

This Christian University is anything but, as are all these institutions that teach "their" own version of God's Word.

What exactly is your definition of Christianity? Are you sure you are not spouting your own propaganda and claiming it is from God? Do I agree with all these christian leaders in the way that they do things? Absolutely not! However, to group them all into one big group just shows that liberals don't care what they believe in. To you it is all the same and thus shows your bias.

I think you are a huge hypocrite to believe that what you teach comes from God. Your basis doesn't have any biblical reference which is why so many of you liberals who claim to be christians are laughable. So if it doesn't come from the bible, where do you get your beliefs from?

He's not a "liberal". He's an American. Your prejudice is showing.

By the way, Unhappy, you are WRONG. This was never a Christian Country. Jefferson, in particular, was extremely worried about the priests taken over the new government.

The Founders spelled out their intentions both in the First Amendment, and the Treaty of Tripoli, developed during Washington's Presidency and signed in John Adams. This treaty, accepted with approbation and unanimously passed in Congress states (paraphrasing) "the United States is not a Christian country." This treaty can be found on line.

That is why the Establishment Clause exists. To keep people like you from forcing your perverted brand of "religion" on the rest of us.

Do read a book.

Do I agree with all these christian leaders in the way that they do things? Absolutely not! However, to group them all into one big group just shows that liberals don't care what they believe in. To you it is all the same and thus shows your bias.

Why should the purported religious beliefs of any candidate be at issue?

First, how can voters tell if politicians truly believe what they claim to believe, especially if, like Romney, they blatantly lie through their teeth on a daily basis?

Second, it is their actions, their policies, and their deeds that should matter...not their religious beliefs.

Romney hasn't demonstrated that he is a follower of Christ or his teachings.

No; because you can't outsource your parishioners.

Although I could envision him holding Sunday service to an empty Church with a phone on the pulpit, teleconferenced to China or India or...

And he could give sermons about repentance, and Delilah cutting off Samson's hair and stuff

Actually, when I look on this site I see a bunch of hateful, evil, liberals.

Now why does that keep surprising me? I didn't realize the leftwingers were so full of hate. Makes me wish they would all leave this country.

Perhaps wishing for something more realistic, like the willpower to stop reading comments by hateful liberals, is in order. I never go to the Fox site, for example, because I see plenty of hateful conservative comments right here on MSN.

Unhappy, you are an absolute HOOT! I do love the undereducated like you.

Let's go through your major thesis, which is "don't group all religious in one block"

Which is what you do to liberals.

I should be worried if I were you...Jesus was a liberal. In fact the man that wrote the Pledge of Allegiance, Frances Beallamy, got kicked out of his pastorate for preaching a sermon called "Jesus was a Socialist"

SCARY!

Wow. If you believe in Jesus...does that make you a Socialist too?

Yes !! When I was a kid, I went to a Baptist church with my parents. The preacher was screwing the organist who was married with 2 kids. A member of the church caught them on the floor of his office doing it. He said he was giving her therapy.

Yep, so true. When my mom was dying of ALS, a Mormon "woman" decided that she wanted her husband and house. I rescued my mom, since "dad" had been having an affair with that creature for some 50 years.

And neither of them can figure out why we have nothing to do with them. "Dad" says I will go to hell for not honoring my father.

More lies spread by the liberal left. Have you no shame left?

I rescued my mom, since "dad" had been having an affair with that creature for some 50 years.

Don't tell me.... he was another atheist pretending to be a christian? No wonder why you're so upset. Are you really blaming the woman or your father? If that is the case, then is it right for me to blame all the liberals/ atheists that have hurt me?

Very delusional, even for a post on First Read. No, Unhappy, "dad" is a man who beats religion like a drum, considers himself to be among the "elect" and therefore able to lecture everyone else. He abandoned his dying wife, my mother, who had been married to him for over 50 years. He had been having an affair with a Mormon skank, and married her a few months after my mom died.

There is more harm in this world done by the "religious" than any other group that exists.

If that is the case, then is it right for me to blame all the liberals/ atheists that have hurt me?

Well, you spend an uncommon amount of time coming to Newsvine to screech at "liberals" and "atheists" and everyone else you clearly hate... So, why stop there.

Not overstating a bit are we Tom? I'm cool with various opinions but really? the Taliban? Liberty University students are being trained to fly airplanes into buildings and strap bombs to their backs and blow up innocent people? I know this ... Jesus wouldn't use your description for Liberty University. Ridiculous idiocy is what you're spewing.!

Agreed Tom, religious fanatics are just that, fanatics. There is no difference between religious fanatics that fly airplanes into buildings, strap bombs to themselves in crowds, bomb abortion clinics, or use guns and knives to murder abortion doctors.

There are a whole lot of CHINOs in the country today. Christian in name only. Hearts filled with hatred and fear.....nice.

More like a madrassa...

Always leave it to the liberals to overreact to the christians and underreact to the muslims. No wonder God put christians in this country as the majority. You people act too stupid on your own.

God didn't do anything concerning majorities. More right wing lies conveniently saying God is on their side. WWJD?

Omnipotent beings don't lower themselves to politics and anyone who tries to use them to make their point have no point.

Dear Unhappy,

I took a American History class and learned that the reason they wanted the separation between church and state was the Salem Witch Trials. They felt the religious were too driven by emotion and we needed a country with clear headed people governed by the rule of law.

And civil rights for all is only common decency. I guess I am expecting too much from republicans like Romney who would rather tell another lie than be decent.

Not only was it Romney that saved the auto industry he will take responsibility for any other good thing that President Obama has done. Then with his steady stream of lies will blame President Obama for things that bush had done.

Then tell you what a good business man he is but never likes to mention that when governor his state was 47th out of 50 in job creation. Seems a pretty pitiful record for a man who seems to claiming he can fix all our problems with a simple flick of his wrist.

No matter whose chosen for Romney's running mate, his real running mate is the recession he will bring with him if elected.

No wonder God put christians in this country as the majority. You people act too stupid on your own.

LOL. After 8 years of Dumbya Bush, calling anyone else stupid other than King Christian himself, is hilarious.

In ever religion there are hypocrites, you aren't supposed to be looking to the religious leaders for perfection. We all sin, that's why we need a savior, we are supposed to keep our eyes on God, not people. People, no matter how good intended will always let you down. For all you people who are non-believers why is it necessary to be so hateful to people that have a different belief than you. You are more tolerant of gays, illegals, and a host of other things. Why is there no tolerance for people of faith? You call it fantasy, idiotic, etc.. Why so much hate?

You don't have to agree with my beliefs to respect me as a person, just like I don't have to agree with yours to treat you with kindness and respect. Everyone has a right to there lifestyle and beliefs whether I agree with them or not. I have a cousin who's gay and I sure don't hate him or treat him any different for it. I love him,, and pray for him just like any other member of my family

WWJD............ is the first W for who?

Is the D for demonize?

See there is a lot of ways to have fun with this WWJD.

Add your own.

I am not trying to say its not okay for oters to be of faith, but that faith should be demonstrated in their actions and deeds. christains are some of the most hateful people I know.

Both candidates for President claim to be Christian, and I take them at their word.

Kevin S: I see atheists as some of the most hateful people I know. If you think christians are hateful, then you should definetly look in the mirror a few times. More crap on this newvine is done by atheists, so much so, that most christians refuse to post here anymore. Nobody's beliefs are respected anyone and even the ones that do, if you notice, is talk coming from a bunch of liberals who really have nothing else to say except to bash christians just for the sake of being christian. Would we have more respect from atheists had we blown up the World Trade Center? I believe so.

That's how screwed up and fanatically you guys are becoming. Look in the mirror for a change.

I think you have the cornered covered for hateful posts. There you go generalizing about atheists again.

Here is the truth about atheists. They don't need the threat of hell to have a moral and ethical code. The "religious" can't have ethics without the threat of everlasting punishment.

Very well said, Newday! Two thumbs, way up!

Thanks, Sailcat!

.

No in the 1%

The social context of the Jefferson quote was the intense political struggle between Jefferson, whose vision of America was an agricultural society where congress exercised the minimal central authority, and president Washington.

Washington envisioned America as a manufacturing society with a robust central government with executive authority vested in the President. He viewed the Central Bank as an essential element of defense in that the Government needed the ability to raise funds in any emergency.

I see from your paranoid posts that your history lessons are provided by the KKK and it's broadcast equivalents, but you should expand beyond Rick Perry and Ron Paul to round out your education.

I deem it necessary to respond to the person who calls him/her self "Not in the 1%"

I strongly recommend that you take a trip to France and go to the cemetary behind Omaha Beach in Normandy. Then urinate over the graves you see. Then you can desecrate the graves for real instead of with that verbal diarrhea. You dishonor the brave men that died so that we might have the rights and freedoms we enjoy. Guess what? You should be labeled an Anti Semite because it's exactly what you are.

I am old enough to remember all the horrible things they said about JFK. They said the Pope would run this country. It never happened.

I don't agree with Romney on virtually any political issue, but it's not because of his religion.

C'mon everyone, clear your minds. We are better than this

I think that Jesus was probably gay himself.

I know Jesus believed in saving hookers from being stoned as well. So he loved the hoes.

WWJD? ........ Who Would Jesus Do? He hung out with IRS agents and hookers......

Note to white people...... Jesus looked more like Osama Bin Laden than Brad Pitt as you like to portray him. He was a person.

Funny........... Maury Povich to Joseph.......... you are not.... the father ....... then Mary runs off stage crying.

I think that Jesus was probably gay himself.

If the jesus creature ever existed at all -- he most likely was gay.

He will save idoits like you ,,if you repemt..that ws Jasus missiom

save us from what, the evil guy that lives in the firepit underground?

Please take your lies and baloney elsewhere.

How? What has he done that damages this country? Be specific and try for literacy!

Howard-2432434

It's Corporate Press not liberal. Corporate and government propaganda is more like fascist Press.

Its Unbelieveable that you actually beleive what they feed you.

Well, Judy... if you saw it on TV it must be true. LMAO! Welcome to the 21st century. It ain't your grandpa's Studebaker.

Not in the one percent: Bingo! "Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power."-Benito Mussolini

Howard we can tell you did not take advantage of public schools available thanks to liberals like Obama. You obviously are not a product of private school as romneyand his ilk can afford. You should be more worried with becomng educated so you can read and understand the subject matter in question.

Does it matter if Obama is a muslim or "christen", ( I guess they follow a guy/girl named chris).

So it doesn't matter whether Romney is or is not of faith, but you were no doubt one of the main people harping about whether or not Obama was or is a muslim as if it mattered.

WWJD Howard? Yes... Who Would Jesus Demonize? Niether I suspect, but you so called christians are nothing like christ nor do you even try to be. You are evil, judgmental...with emphasis on mental, adulterous lying bigots. Maybe a few of you on the right try, but most of the true believers in christ are liberals like christ was.

Friend open your eyes to wold around
us, if Romney wanted to crate jobs he doesn’t need to become the
President to do so, “ he's a millionaire”. He's just playing on
your feelings about a man and a woman so he can get elected , and
when he gets elected it's back to realty. The big oil
company's want him to be President for some reason, and
what ever that reason is that’s what he'll do once he becomes the
President. And you can kiss all the rest of his campaign promises
good buy... Trust me the problem is government and all they want to
do is make themselves richer, they don't want to pay their fair share
of taxes, heck the trader's on wall street don't pay taxes on all
those money transaction that occur ever day, and that's billions of
dollars that could be used to pay down the National debt. Instead
they want to use money for programs that effect us such as Medicare,
Medicaid, and Social Security they want to attack such programs as
the Affordable Health Care Act, which is already helped children who
couldn't get insurance before. If you interested in seeing something
that the oil company’s have allegedly don in the past watch a
documentary called “GASHOLE” it's Narrated by actor Peter
Gallagher, it dissects America's dependence on foreign oil and
exposes rich oil companies' devious dealings. There a particular part
that talks about a water injected carburetor use in a 1957 Buck Road
master that get 100MPG, and how the patent was bought out buy
“Shell”, and could you imagine a Hummer getting 100MPG. This is
how long and maybe longer that are government has taken advantage us,
and we really need to stand are ground, don't let the usual
politics’s control you decision look to the past to find the
answers your looking for. If you think that the “Big Oil
Company’s” have you in their best interest, that your OK with
gas price's ($3.48 per gallon), then vote Romney. But when you
retire and you wonder what happen to all those benefits you only have
yourself to blame. The only problem that concerns it that it will
effect my future too.

Both candidates for President claim to be Christians. I take them at their word.

Howard-open your eyes to your short comings and limited abilities. They are obvious.

At least we can all agree on equal rights for white straight Christian men. That just leaves women, gays, African Americans, Mexicans and other religions to argue about.

Hey Toasty - check the grammar and spelling from Howard. I'm sure he is a Christian but doesn't know how to spell it. No wonder these people want to cut funding for education. They are trying to level the playing field.

I don't make fun of peoples' poor grammar, I make fun of their really stupid arguments.

I make fun of their grammer and grampar as well when they are on this message board discussing such important topics and reflect such arrogance with ignorance, rather than intelligence.

If you are going to present yourself as better than the POTUS elect Obama, then realize he is a Havard grad able to slay you in a debate and not some light wieght.

Most of the hicks that come on here slamming the POTUS do so out of self disgust and can't phathom that most of the GOP elect is more ashamed of them than they are of Obama.

Howard presented his post for discussion both in context and content. Its not our fault if most of the right can't conjugate a verb or do basic math. They are driven to support a group of wealthy people that act against their best interests while biting the very hand that is feeding them.

We on the left know we are electing goverment officials that will be on the goverment teat. Seems the average Joe the plumber GOP voter does not realize he is a laborer and no different in the eyes of the GOP elite, which means he is not rich and not a priority of the GOP even though he is white.

Average Joe GOP seems to think the candidate they are going to elect is going to stay away from all government funds and work for free. They think the GOP doesn't spend money on corporations or at all. It was the land of milk and honey under George Bush. There where no gays, no poverty, no homelessness, everyone that wanted a job had two and everyone worshipped God. No one committed adultery under the GOP, no one got divorced or had a child out of wedlock (not even Bristol Palin).

Hard not to pick on idiots that make themselves known to be idiots

I still think that the teabaggers booing a soldier is a more important point.

Romney believes that to be gay IS a deadly sin. As an adult, he believed Black skin WAS a a deadly sin: a cruse that restricted all Blacks from heaven. With all the Political LIES he HAS told,including not remembering when he bullied fellow student, nor when he tormented his dog for hours, when will he tell the American people that HE, too, like everybody else, HAS SIN. What a character!

So true but, from the sound of most of these posts, some of the facist sheep are running in right handed circles while others are running in left handed circles. And, after all the running and ranting, they both end up right where they started....nowhere.

Sorta like Nascar......yeeeee haw!!

well, willard's certainly not a Christian and therefore may be your man. Romney has taken an oath of loyalty and obedience to the mormon church. If he remains obedient and keeps paying his tithing he gets to be a polygamist god in the next life and oversee his own planet.

Romney being a Mormon is irrelavent.

Morman's are not killing Christians muslim/islamiist are.

IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE THAT OBAMA IS A MUSLIM JUST ASK HIM OR BETTER
YET JUST WATCH AND HE WILL TELL YOU!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28<http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?

Ron Paul 2012 Restore Our Constitution

The rights of the Constitution for all!*

*unless you're gay - Ron Paul 2012

D-1120384 - Inaccurate regarding Ron Paul.

alim-2810059 - D-1120384 - Inaccurate regarding Ron Paul.

Actually he was exactly right since Ron Paul fully supports DOMA, wrote the odious "Marriage Protection Act", and the theocratic "We the People Act".

Ron Paul is a homophobe, and doesn't support equal rights for gays.

Ron Paul also signed the person-hood pledge that vows to overturn Roe v Wade. So Ron believes in personal rights and freedom only if you are a man.

Americans First-3238795 - Ron Paul also signed the person-hood pledge that vows to overturn Roe v Wade. So Ron believes in personal rights and freedom only if you are a man.

Even worse is the "We the People Act", since it would prohibit the courts from basing any ruling on a right to privacy, or citing Griswold v CT or Roe v Wade as precedent. And it would allow a state to enact religiously-based law, and void the 1st Amendment for state purposes. Here's the relevant part:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.958.IH:

The Supreme Court of the United States and each Federal court--
(1) shall not adjudicate--
(A) any claim involving the laws, regulations, or policies of any State or unit of local government relating to the free exercise or establishment of religion;
(B) any claim based upon the right of privacy, including any such claim related to any issue of sexual practices, orientation, or reproduction; or
(C) any claim based upon equal protection of the laws to the extent such claim is based upon the right to marry without regard to sex or sexual orientation; and
(2) shall not rely on any judicial decision involving any issue referred to in paragraph (1).

For a guy who claims to believe in personal liberty, Ron Paul sure doesn't act like it.

Romney being a Mormon is irrelavent.

Morman's are not killing Christians muslim/islamiist are.

IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE THAT OBAMA IS A MUSLIM JUST ASK HIM OR BETTER
YET JUST WATCH AND HE WILL TELL YOU!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28<http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?