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Subscribe to RSSPresident Obama says he now supports same-sex marriage, ending months of equivocation on a subject with powerful election-year consequences. NBC's Brian Williams and Chuck Todd reports.
Updated 4:50 p.m. ET- President Barack Obama endorsed the right of same-sex couples to marry on Wednesday, a landmark pronouncement made in light of mounting pressure from gay rights advocates.
Obama became the first U.S. president to back the right of gay and lesbian couples to marry, a reversal from views expressed during the 2008 campaign, when he said he opposed same-sex marriage but favored civil unions as an alternative.
Related: The ‘evolution’ of Obama’s stance on gay marriage
Obama told ABC News that, after reflection, he had "concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same-sex couples should be able to get married."
President Barack Obama, who said in the past that his views on gay marriage were 'evolving,' said today he thinks same-sex couples should be able to get married. But he also said that gay marriage is an issue for states to decide. Currently, there isn't any federal action in the works to make gay marriage legal. NBC's Chuck Todd reports.
Related: Romney calls marriage 'tender' issue, skirts Obama remarks
In making his announcement, Obama completes what he had described as an “evolution” in his views on this issue, hastened by growing fervor this week involving gay rights. The growing pressure was capped Tuesday by North Carolina voters’ approval of a constitutional amendment banning not only same-sex marriages, but civil unions for gay and lesbian couples, as well.
Obama’s shift not only speaks to a broad swath of the electorate, which has exhibited increasing acceptance of same-sex marriage in opinion polls, but also gay and lesbian voters who compose a core part of Obama’s base, and have been major fundraisers for his re-election.
ABC News
President Barack Obama appears in an interview with ABC News on Wednesday, speaking in support of gay marriage. "It is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same sex couples should be able to get married," the president said.
Obama explained that he had hesitated in fully supporting same-sex marriage because he thought civil unions would be sufficient.
"I have to tell you that over the course of several years as I have talked to friends and family and neighbors when I think about members of my own staff who are in incredibly committed monogamous relationships, same-sex relationships, who are raising kids together, when I think about those soldiers or airmen or marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that 'Don't Ask Don't Tell' is gone, because they are not able to commit themselves in a marriage, at a certain point I’ve just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same sex couples should be able to get married," he told ABC.
The president had found himself under increasing pressure this week to state his position unequivocally after Vice President Joe Biden voiced support for same-sex marriage.
"I am absolutely comfortable with the fact that men marrying men, women marrying women, and heterosexual men and women marrying another are entitled to the same exact rights, all the civil rights, all the civil liberties," Biden said on NBC’s "Meet the Press." "And quite frankly, I don't see much of a distinction beyond that."
While the White House emphasized that Biden’s position wasn’t representative of the entire administration, Education Secretary Arne Duncan’s pronouncement Monday on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” in support of same-sex marriage added to pressure on the president.
“I have no update on the president's personal views,” press secretary Jay Carney said repeatedly at Monday’s White House press briefing in reference to the president’s self-styled “evolution” on gay marriage.
As a result, Obama has risked fallout among his political base. The Washington Post reported this week that gay and liberal donors had threatened to withhold financial support for the president or a super PAC due to his refusal to sign an executive order barring discrimination of gays and lesbians in federal contracting.
Comments from Vice President Joe Biden and Education Secretary Arne Duncan brought Obama's views about gay marriage back into national spotlight.NBC's Chuck Todd reports.
And Obama was expected, too, to encounter frustration at a major Hollywood fundraiser this week at the home of actor George Clooney.
The overwhelming approval, too, of the measure, which Obama had opposed, in North Carolina -- a key swing state -- heightened speculation that the president might address the issue.
RELATED: North Carolina approves ban on same-sex marriage
GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney re-iterated his opposition to both same-sex marriage and civil unions on Tuesday.
"I have the same view on marriage that I had when I was governor and that I've expressed many times," he said following the president's announcement. "I believe marriage is a relationship between a man and a woman."
Earlier, he told KDVR-TV in Denver: "I do not favor marriage between people of the same gender, and I do not favor civil unions if they are identical to marriage other than by name ... My view is the domestic partnership benefits, hospital visitation rights, and the like are appropriate but that the others are not."
Obama has faced tremendous pressure throughout his administration to advance gay rights.
Among his earliest acts as president included signing an executive order extending benefits to federal employees in same-sex partnerships in 2009. Obama also ordered the government to stop defending the Defense of Marriage Act -- the 1996 laws allowing states to refuse to recognize same-sex marriages in other states -- in court.
The administration’s crowning achievement on gay rights came more methodically, though -- sometimes to the frustration of advocates for same-sex rights.
Obama signed the repeal of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” -- the military’s ban on openly gay or lesbian service members -- into law in December 2010. But the repeal came after months of legislative wrangling, and the president’s refusal to sign a simple order to make the change. And even after Obama signed the law, the implementation took months.
FIRST READ: Is Obama's gay marriage stance all about suburban voters?
Same-sex marriage is hardly the hot-button issue it was compared to the last decade, though. Support for it now eclipses opposition; 49 percent of Americans said that favor allowing gays and lesbians to marry, according to the March NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll, while 40 percent oppose it. (In October 2009, 49 percent opposed same-sex marriages, while 41 percent supported them.)
Secretary of Education Arne Duncan says he supports gay marriage, one day after Vice President Joe Biden said he's "comfortable" with marriage equality.
Opinion has shifted especially among independent voters, who back marriage rights 46 percent to 37 percent. About three in 10 Republicans said they, too, support same-sex marriage.
However, of the 18 states making composing the “toss-up” or “lean” categories in NBC’s battleground map, 10 have banned same-sex marriage and civil unions outright, either by constitutional amendment or statute. Just two -- Iowa and New Hampshire -- have legalized gay marriage outright, while other states operate in more nebulous space when it comes to gay and lesbian couples.
Excellent!
This is something that not only is the right thing to do, it is long overdue as well.
This isn't just about marriage, it is about fairness and equality for all.
This is awesome news for the USA...when a candidate for President actually stands for something.
This feels both historic and a huge step in the right direction.
We now have the President of the United States of America as an ally and supporter of equality for all people in the United States. The hopes and dreams written into the Constitution are a step closer to being fully realized and fully fulfilled.
Agreed, I unfortunately his support is more symbolic than much else. It will still require action by the courts or the legislature to make real progress.
Great start however.
Standing for what? Running scared from Gay Advocate Bullies who use threats, lawsuits, and mental gymnastics to frighten people to their view? Certainly if you don't bow to the gay agenda, you are nothing but a bigot and a homophobe!
I was disappointed by candidate Obama's failure to support same-sex marriage in 2008, and I'm delighted to see he has come around to the understanding that committed monogamy is a value to be supported, regardless of whether the couple at issue is homosexual or heterosexual. I would have been proud to vote for President Obama's second term anyway, but now I will be much more so.
To the opponents of gay marriage, I reiterate the question I have been asking for years, without an answer: if "morality" is about whether something hurts or helps people, how is homosexuality immoral? Who does it hurt? And if my definition of morality is wrong, please explain how, and supply what you believe to be the correct definition.
WOOHOO!! What does that say about NC?
Well, the president has indeed evolved. Fairness wins in the end. Two people in love have the right to formalize their relationship with a marriage contract. If a church doesn't want to marry gay couples, they have the right to say no to them, but the government should not.
I'm still waiting to hear from the first couple that says their heterosexual marriage failed because the gay community has the right to enter a marriage contract in their state.
This whole episode reminds me of how Lincoln's view of slavery changed during his administration, and how he had the courage to redefine the Civil War as a result of his metamorphosis.
From now on, any president will have a difficult time justifying opposition to this issue. This is about fairness.
@Joshua : What gay agenda ? The one about having the same rights as other americans ?
If that's an agenda, I support it fully. Because if you don't support them having the same rights as other, you are effectively a bigot and an homophobe
Aren't there more pressing issues?
"Equal rights" means equal rights. Well done, Mr. President.
As a married hetero male, I say "Hell, ya!" The fact that the gay couple next door or across the world might get married will in no way effect my relationship. Gutsy move by the Prez! Was on the fence until now but now he has my vote.
bscol, civil rights is a pretty big issue.
Also, surprise, most of us can multitask.
Breaking news. This just in. Obama wants gay peoples money/vote also.
Another election year ploy. Obama is so transparent now that you can see through him...
A) Duh. B) Is this the same support he offered on getting gay couples equality in benefits? Where is he on that?
Good for you Mr. President
Thank you Mr. President for at least being concise with your beliefs.
I'm still not voting for you.
I'll ditto that to all who support Obama's stance. Now we can move on....
Mr President why are you backing away from what you have been saying for 4 years and that is marriage is between a MAN and WOMAN.
As a Loyal supported I'm not happy. your flip flopping like your GOP Opponent
nomoresameo,
This is the defining human rights issue of the 21st century.
And President Barack Obama - once again,
Has done the right thing.
Evolving views = flip-flop. Now we see Obama has an etch-a-sketch too!
@ Jeremy, What does this say about NC?...it says Obama just lost a swing state.
Terrific- just wish he had said it, oh, maybe, Monday- before the polls closed on Amendment One.
One question- does this mean he will finally sign that EO that's been sitting on his desk? The one that would bar government contractors from discriminating against their LGBT employees?
Ah, Obama has adopted the position he thinks will garner him the most votes. No real surprise here.
Lady's and gentleman....I present to you the ultra hate of the far right, and their PR agencies ;)
Looks like their still upset over J.T Ready.
Terrific news. Thank you. I was going to vote for you anyway.
I'm so pleased! This feels very much like a step in the right direction. Maybe a small one, but a step none-the-less. I don't really care if he's doing it in response to pressure or even if he really feels that way. Just coming out an SAYING it says something.
Also, people are allowed to change their minds. It's called "growing".
@Michael The gay agenda has taught you well. Like I said. If I don't run over and agree we should redefine marriage, I am a bigot and a homophobe. Ignoring the fact the Gay Agenda lied the first time when the claimed they only wanted Civil Unions, but would leave marriage alone. Then when they got support for Civil Unions, jumped at marriage. Then claimed they wouldn't touch education, but as soon as more support for gay marriage came forth, crammed the "FAIR Education Act" down California's throat. You people are being played, and your playing right into their hands.
Yes Sir Mr. President! Equal Rights for all.
As a fellow Stanford alum, I agree!
Thank you, Mr. President. I had decided to stand on the sidelines this election cycle due to your lack of support for us on this issue. But now I will be actively campaigning and supporting your re-election.
My first step is to replace the Obama-Biden bumper sticker on my car. That may not sound like much, but trust me, that's a courageous act in Orange County.
So happy that he is finally stepping up to help provide equal rights for ALL Americans regardless of what religious fanatics try to control. However, I did not like the reporter's comment which implied he did it under pressure instead of for the reasons the President said. The reporter claims the decision was... "made in light of mounting pressure from gay right advocates." Obviously, we all feel that many political decisions are made due to public pressure, but the President explained his reasons which made perfect sense to those of us who have already come to this conclusion regarding gay rights. Furthermore, this decision may not help the President politically speaking, but it certainly helped him spiritually speaking. :)
Wow....there is one of his 2008 campaign promises he kept....transparency at it's finest. "I have now changed my mind because I need the votes....my um ahh record is not going to cut it"....lol...and look how many on this vine are eating it up saying how great thou art....really?... are you still not sick of the kool-aid?
Who cares what Odumbo thinks! He'll say whatever b.s. he thinks he should say to get a vote! This is not a man with principles.
I'm proud of you Mr President.
Please take a bow.
Amen Joshua. Libs are such sheep. Blind ones at that and I doubt their sense of smell is much better. Something smells. This is pandering to the voter bloc at its best.
The poll supporting obama is out again. Anyone with a brain can see he is doing this just for votes. For years he was for hetro marriage only. Now that he sees his numbers dropping in the polls he is flipping/flopping in every direction for votes.
Unlike Carter, obama won't even make a good ex-president.
I see it as Obama bending to pressure. Maybe he has changed his position, but I feel he should have done this way before this so it doesn't look like he's doing it for votes.
No guns, no guts, and now Gay mommies and daddies marrying??. What a socialist POS country the US has become........... Ted Nugent to the rescue please!!!!!!!!
I voted for him last time and will this time. He is not as concerned with greed and power as Mitt. People are equal and the constitution says that all people are entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Just because the religious crazies, and there are more of them than I would like to think about, have no tolerance for anything other than what they think is 'sinful' doesn't mean that gay people are any different than anyone else. As long as there is love, that is what matters in a union between two people. Child porn is legal in NY. What is wrong with this picture?
Thank you President Obama and VP Biden for not caving into the threats illicited by the bigots.
One major difference... Obama ADMITS that his view has changed, describing his feelings on the issue as "evolving". People change, and mature adults admit when they change their views and generally provide reasons for it.
Romney, on the other hand, refuses to admit that he flip flops on EVERY issue... sometimes within 3 hours of his original position.
What wouldn't he support for a vote?
Going against the Bible for votes,, sad and is not good
Hmm.. just in time for election. He sure has some great PR behind him. I will not be voting for you. I love the comments on here. Americans are clueless..they believe anything these days. Where are all the other things he promised when he was running in 2008?? Wake up you fools!
Of course, all the Obama haters will be saying he is "flip-flopping" and that he is doing this just to get votes. You'd say that if he announced he found a cure for cancer.
Get over it. You're still pissed he won th first time, and you're gonna be even more pissed when he wins again.
If all the Gay Community is really interested in is making sure they get treated equally and have the same rights as "Married" Male/Female couples then whats wrong with calling it a "Civil Union" or some other term?
Why do you insist on calling it "Marriage" or being able to say your "Married" using a term that has always meant a union between a Man and a Woman?
As much as you would like to believe being able to use the term "Married" or "Marriage" will bring legitimacy to Homosexuality, it wont.
No one is going to say "Oh look at that Gay couple, there "Married", therefore their not violating the laws of Nature".
Oh look at that Gay couple, there "Married", so Men having Sex with Men or Woman having sex with Woman is Natural.
The Homosexual community is what 3% of the Population?
Whether you like it or not Homosexuality is a marginal part of the population and should be dying off each generation. Homosexuality will never be anything more than Tolerated and insisting Gay couples can use the term "Marriage", which represents, and is the term used, to represent a Union between a Man and a Woman, just makes it that much harder for the rest of the Population to tolerate Homosexuality.
I don't see this as anything but selfish. If your a God fearing man which I am, the Lord calls this an abomination. I have many gay friends and a gay cousin all of whom I love. I will not be thier judge. But please don't tell me I have to except marriage between gay couples as normal. Call it something else and I will be fine with that.
Sasra Palin claims that that President Obama suppports "Mandate" for gy marriage. I.E. ALll heterosexuals willl have to acquire a gay partner as welll as their parterner of the opppostie sex. ALll follling aside. Why is that RIght WIng take stheir primary joy from depriving people of things they neeed? e.g. companionship, Health Care. a lving wage, etc.
I will either be dead or in jail
"Ah, Obama has adopted the position he thinks will garner him the most votes"
Yes, God forbit that a presidential candidate should actually take a position that most people in the country support. That would just be way too radical.
Brian,
Congrats on getting collapsed - means you are doing something right! ☺
Why are the first few comments blocked? It doesn't get much more non-offensive than that.
MSNBC, you really need to adjust your policy. The community should NOT be able to collapse comments simply because they disagree with what was said.
Usually, one's first statement about anything, is their real feelings about certain Issues.
The Presidential Election is in November---votes. No one can please every voter.
Why did VP Biden have to "pave" the way for Pres. Obama to make this statement today?
It is a wonderful committment for Obama to say he Endorses Gay Marriage. Finally, a Great President.
I can't see this getting more vote without losing a bunch. He was already going to get the "gay" vote. Now he just lost a bunch who don't agree with his new position. I think he should have waited until AFTER the election to take this stance.
No president should be supporting any religious idea, they get thier stuff done
butfrom the point that the right is really trying to make same sex marriage a thing that will affect them has made obama take a step...
obama is progressive...
mean whole other states like NC...well...no ones coming to ur state for your branded stupidity
enjoy the bible, ill see u all in hell
He is just pandering for votes that he was losing by not fulfilling promises in the last campaign..anyone thinking otherwise is a fool. He is just another case of the tail wagging the dog. +
How is it being "treated equally" if they're barred from having the same right to marriage that straight couples have? "Separate but equal" is a contradiction in terms.
geo
"Abomination" is the term used in Leviticus.
Your use of the term suggests you follow Leviticus law, which is Old Testament. Thus, you must also support slavery. Tell me, do you have a daughter? According to Leviticus you may sell her into slavery, so what is the going rate?
Leviticus also states that eating shellfish is an abomination... have you ever eaten crab or shrimp? If so, guess what? You are an abomination.
Oh, and check the tags on your clothing. If they are made of two different fabrics, from different crops... well, we get to stone you. All of this is according to Leviticus, which YOU have stated that YOU follow.
I am just going to start polishing these stones while I wait for your response.
Listen to this crap on here about "taking a stand", and "bravery", and "congratulations". Geez guys and gals, if Biden hadn't put his big dumb foot in his mouth, Obama would still be waffling on this. Taking a stand...bulls**t!
Why today?
Thanks Obama. Now stop harassing medical marijuana providers, and you'll have my vote back.
When they start using my taxes for these obviously sick people, and it not being used to find a cure, I will stop paying taxes and fight it to the supreme court.
My tax money should not be for these sick and perverted individuals.
I don't care if he's saying this just for votes (not that I think he is anyway). It's still a step in the right direction for the president to support the newest push for equal rights. Once upon a time, I would not have been able to marry my husband, simply because his ancestors came from a different continent than mine did.
Great move by my Prez!! Making the hard decisions even if it does cost him NC or votes in general. They will be nothing in comparison to the votes he will gain for doing the right thing and taking a hard stance even though part of his base may disagree. That is a true leader. Not like the other side that cannot stand up to radio talk show hosts and religious leaders that think their hats should fit all Americans... just because it may cost him votes.
BTW.. wasnt the margin of victory in NC to take these rights away due to it being on the same night of the republican primary. i wonder how it would have done if this was voted on during the general election
Barrack Obama... 4 more year into the 21st century!! Let's not go backwards into the 19th century!!
CW042410
Evolving views = flip-flop. Now we see Obama has an etch-a-sketch too!
@ Jeremy, What does this say about NC?...it says Obama just lost a swing state.
Nice try but we got you. Some people do not vote on just one issue. President Obama is light years away from Willard the "MYTH" Romney. Remember, Willard has no idea what it means to be human. Our President is with the people and civil rights.
Surely, this decision will mobilize the base and those who were on the fence.
Maybe you missed the part about separation of Church and State????? Yours or anyones bible has NO PLACE in our government. Read a book much? Learn anything about the founding of the country at all??? Just because your bible teaches you to be a bigot against people who are not like you doesn't mean that everyone in the country subscribes to that nonsensical drival! How is someone elses marriage going to affect you? Are you in everyone's bedroom? Ew! Get out! All are created equal, heard that one ever?
While I question the timing of this epiphany of Obama's, I can't begrudge him for growing as a person and standing behind his changed views of the country. Good for you Mr. President!
Obama will say anything he can to get votes this we already know 8)
He is a Liar
Gay marriage to me I do not care 8) it's your life not mine... I live in Cali and the people do not want it just like 30 others states.
We have more pressing matters in our Country then gay marriage 8)
Like Trillions in Debt, Jobs and border security etc...
He promised he would not go after medical marijuana guess what he lied he has been hammering us since October 11 closing down shops and arresting caregivers and just being a pain in the ass.
Obama = Putz
Indie Party, Do you REALLY think God is in favor of homosexuality?
Flymaster
On that note I don't want my tax dollars going to support your kids in schools, the roads you drive on, the police who protect you. However I don't really think that way, I just hope you can see how irrational and ignorant your comments are.
You, sir, need to educate yourself on the reality of sexuality and the its immutable genetic status of human sexuality. However you are also in a group that is now the minority and quickly decreasing by the years.
Totally agree Spider. There so much worship and arse kissing over this it's mind numbing. People....all Obama did was "change his mind"...aka flip flop. And it looks to be an OBVIOUS campaign move.
Can't you sense when you're being "told what you want to hear"? It's called politics.
This just in: You can stay home and Obama will still win Cali. However, not so bright gay person, this is EXACTLY the pandering Obama has been doing since before he was elected.
Good!! That is the difference between bringing the country FORWARD, INSTEAD OF TRYING TO GET IT BACK TO THE 18TH CENTURY, AS THE GOP IS TRYING TO DO.
KUDOS, FOR OBAMA AND BIDEN 2012
Just keep opening your mouths (biden...obozo) you will defeat yourselves. HAHAHAHAHAHA
PLEASE keep talking!!
Raider: how the heck is this an "obvious campaign move" since it's going to cost him as many votes as it gets him? THere's so much idiocy and pandering to the bible thumping holier than thou crowd in the other party it's mind-numbing. It's called common sense. Get some.
Wow! What a gutsy move. What a brave man. Finally. A president who believes in freedom for all of its citizens instead of just the ones within a single demographic. We're watching history here, people.
BTW...all you Obamakins. Looks to me as though Obama is like many of us on said topic; TIRED OF IT and willing to give in JUST TO SHUT the far left up.
I am so sick of the way this topic has been dramatized. Our priorities are so out of whack. People want to applaud Obama for SAYING something. Note...he didn't DO ANYTHING. Obama expressed NO ACTION ITEMS on said topic....but lets uncork the champagne and slap him on the back. But when it comes to issues of FISCAL POLICY (where he has been a COMPLETE FAILURE), the Libs don't even take notice or hold him accountable.
So disgusting. Going against his Muslim principles just to gain a few votes from degenerates..
None of the governments business.. Its a religious function.. Gays agreed with liberty when he wouldnt support your efforts.. now?
But at least we now know his personal views on life is not very Abrahamic.. Bye bye to the much larger Christian vote.. Thanks for continuing to make this election easy for us Mr. Obama.... RP2012 to get the government out of our lives.
So now how about those jobs programs he wasted billions on with NO effect? Epic Fail President.
I admire his strenght and courage! It might lose him the election but he made a stand for equal rights. As a religious person I believe that civil unions do the same thing. One day I might evolve to the level of President Obama, and Vice President Cheney (this is one area where they both agree). All things considered President Obama still has my vote. There is something sinister about Gov. W. M. Romney.
Raider,
A flip-flop is when you say something at one time, then something different at another time without acknowledging that you said something different in the past.
winemaker-5901072 - let's make this perfectly clear...
Obama said he was on the 'fence' about this, but he finally CHOSE THE RIGHT SIDE FOR CIVIL RIGHTS. Unlike Romney who changes with whatever direction the wind blows. When did the Democratic Convention move? Did I miss something. Oh wait, you made that up and expected us to believe it.
In case you didn't realize something... Congress is the one who passed that discriminating DOMA. ONLY CONGRESS can CHANGE IT. How an Obama change it without Congressional support?
As for President Obama... There aren't enough words to express my gratitude that FINALLY we have someone who believes EQUAL RIGHTs should be available to ALL AMERICANs. You had my vote even before today, but now you have my eternal respect.
Well, we certainly tell he is in campaign mode, too bad he loses other voters because he has to be bullied into it. GROW A PAIR BARRY!!!!!!!!!!!!
My neighbors are furious he has done NOTHING for the gay community and said they are not voting for him again.....guess this changes things
@AP....if you can't see the politics in Obama making this courageous "stand"....you're the one in need of common sense. You really buy in to this mature, evolving, thought process he speaks of? After a life time of feeling one way on said topic he's ALL OF A SUDDEN seen the "right way".
Give me a break.
geo
Why are you avoiding the question?
YOU STATED LEVITICUS LAW... YOUR WORDS.
Now answer the questions: What is the price you are charging to buy your daughter? Have you eaten crab or shrimp? And what cloth are your current clothes made from?
These are all LAWS IN LEVITICUS. You have admitted that you follow Leviticus law. So stop changing the subject and answer the question.
Or are you a coward? Are you too afraid to answer? Come on, man up. Are you going to act like a pathetic coward and try to divert the conversation? Or are you going to man up and answer the questions?
Did ya notice he also said it was a States Rights issue.....so he may have personally changed his views on it....he's dodging Federal intervention to do anything about it....He can be disappointed all he wants in the 61%-39% North Carolina Constitutional Amendment vote.....
What will Rev. Wright say ??...or how about Calypso Louie Farrakhan...The Nation of Islam will not be pleased ....
Krestov
And there is the reason that America is changing for the worse.
If you, or anyone else believes it is normal for a man to stick his penis in the dirtiest part of the human body then fine, i don't care. But my taxes are not going to be used to help these sick, perverted individuals. I will fight it to the highest court.
Equating police service and school taxes to my taxes helping these individuals, solely for the fact they have a same sex partner, which would further their disgusting perverted ways, makes me sick to think my taxes are benefiting them in any way. So no comparison between them.
Wow....thanks for clearing that up (sarcasm). Why don't we just say he "changed his mind". Is that better? We'll save the "flip flop" term for Republicans only.
Note to self.....ONLY Liberals are allowed to use the term flip/flop.
winemaker
So you have no problem when Romney flip flops on every issue... but you have a problem when Obama does?
I think your phone is ringing, someone named "kettle" is on the line... saying that you are black. You might want to pick it up.
BTW... I have seen your posts before. Tell me, what wine brand do you make wine for? Just out of curiosity.
Actually, to be honest, I thought Obama was gay ...!
GAY = Got Aids Yet?
This is a true sign of desperation. If Obama will flip flop for what, 3% of the population? His re-election must be in dire straights when he will flip flop to gain the votes of 3%?!?! This is just another nail in the coffin of his re-election. 38 States define marriage between a man and a woman. Obama flip flopping will not improve those numbers. Does he realize, conversely, how many people will now NOT vote for him now? Far more than 3%. (I didn't vote for him the first time due to his lack of relevant work experience, and wouldn't now in any event since my assessment has been 100% proven by the last 3 years.)
Pathetic
Bye Bye Obama! Time to retreat to Chicago.
Ahhhhh so its about the money. Makes sense. Most politicians would sell their mothers for campaign money, and hes no different. Obama's reign has been marked by bad decisons, and this is just yet another.
Flymaster
Please tell me that you are not so stupid as to think only homosexuals do that? Come on, are you really THAT dumb?
You do know that heterosexual couples do that ALL THE TIME, right?
Wow... I know that people make fun of Republicans for lacking intelligence, but you take that to a whole new level. Talk about playing right into a stereotype.
And it makes me sick to think that my taxes are benefiting you and your family in ANY way. Seriously, sick to my stomach... and I'm straight.
So we're even.
I honestly cannot see how mant people are thinking this was not a calculated move on the President's part...He did not come out and say it was the right thing to do...He said he was evolving his views...then they trot out Biden to say he is for it knowing that they can chalk it up to one of those crazy things that Joe says if it doesn't fly...then they have the secretary of education voice support all in preparation for Obama to add his two cents worth...I really don't feel it speaks of true conviction on his part...just another calculated step in a politicians career.
Political pandering for votes, all it is. He could care less either way.
This will not have any effect on whether I vote for Obama at all, wasn't gonna vote for the a$$hat anyhow.
You sing his praises, people, yet did you fully read the article?
He decides to state a reversal of his previous position after people threatened to take away monetary support.
That doesn't sound like a man who truly supports the LGBT community, it sounds like a man who's desperately trying to save his campaign after being pressured by people.
It looks like he's doing it just to get votes and to me, that's just sick.
This is one case where flip flopping is a the right thing to do. Homosexuality is not contagious like fear and hate are folks. Besides most who are so heavily against are usually the ones who prefer the closet so stop with the fear and hate.
Actions, not words, Mr. President.
Great for him. Odd to me that the very same people who swear by the Idea of freedom. And the separation of church and state. Hate the idea of Gay marriage do to religious beliefs. And would have our free nation dictate what people can and cannot get married. And you all call yourself Defenders of freedom Teaparty activists. Fighters for smaller government.
Now may the Congress and Senate get religion out of our Government. And give back some of the freedoms of religion and choice to the people. Your being called out Conservatives. Separation between Church and state or Church run Government like IRAN.
Oh and I am straight in a relationship as well. But support Gays and Lesbians right to Marry
willowbrook - Obama is not flip flopping on anything. If you read with comprehension, in 2008, he was opposed to gay marriage. In 2012, he now supports it? Why, because most people evolve with time unlike some in this country.
So many states also said it was legal/illegal to own slaves. Many states at one time did not give women the right to vote. Many states said it was illegal for inter racial marriages, and practiced seperate but equal.
The states DO NOT decide civil rights, our federal government and supreme court do it. I don't see this hurting him in the election one bit. He had my vote before, now he has my respect, because we FINALLY have a president that believes in Civil Rights for EVERYONE. That's what America is all about. Not "we give civil rights to everyone unless you are gay".
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012.!!!!!!!!
Don't worry Dems. if You don't like this position fron Barack Flip-Flop Obama, wait until tomorrow, it will change again! Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!HA!,(Ah payback, It is sooooooooooosweeeeeet! especially when You can use Your own lines against You!!!!!!!!
IndieParty
Where did you get the idea I was republican?
I don't care if my taxes help you and/or your family, unless they are being used to benefit you for your own personal beliefs.
Like I said before many times, I don't care what they do or how they do it, but my taxes shouldn't benefit something that is perverted.
And It doesn't matter to me wether it's man and women, or man and man, it's disgusting to me either way.
Just keep your name calling and degrading comments to yourself please. (Did you notice I didn't call you an idiot)
P.S. I guess the President could care less about the 60% of North Carolina voters he just alienated.
geo-1957883 im a christian to and i think that what god REALLY wants is for us to stop judging each other. If gay marriage is wrong than god will deal with that when we die. for right now it is none of our buisness who gets married to who. I am tired of people using their religion to try and tell others what they can and cant do with their lives. IT IS NONE OF OUR BUISNESS, did any of the gays ask you if you approve....no, did god actually come down and talk to you saying that you need to stop gay marriage....im guessing not, than please just stop. I think all christians need to adopt my standpoint. i dont support it, i dont condem it, i dont care and its none of my buisness what they do and its none of yours either. This has been a political issue for too long and frankly its embarrising that we are letting this petty topic help us decide who should lead our country.
What I find very disconcerning (besides the usual anti-Obama and ignorant bs) is that people try to hold Obama accountable for some of the campaign promises he made in 2008... Guess what people, the POTUS isn't the one making the laws in this country. Our divided and partisan Congress has stymied this country and there's only so much any one party and one president can do without all legislators opening the discussion and compromising! There were many things that the President tried to get started with bipartisan approval only to get slighted at the last minute by the RepubliCAN'TS ... I'm sick and tired of this "Make Obama Fail" attitude that feels a bit like veiled racism. So people have ideological differences, that's fine... but all this pledging and backpedaling is driving our country into the ground... if you don't think that equal rights for gays isn't indicative of a larger issue, then you're sorely mistaken. If we can compartmentalize one group, we can do it for others. That's not what this country was supposed to be about.... I don't understand why gay marriage frightens so many people when Britney Spears and Kim Kardashian have both rather publicly and embarassingly set back the "sanctity of marriage" in this country... what's the divorce rate at? 44%? Yeah... VERY sanctimonious.
Obama did it for votes? Well, it's an election year, right? Give me a break!
Still, I feel I'm preaching to the choir... the people that hate Obama (West Virginia) are ALWAYS going to hate Obama and anything and everything he does is the work of the Antichrist ... For those "sheep" so-called conservatives, ask yourself... how much corporate money goes into your "fiscally conservative" candidates of yours? Also, if tax cuts for the wealthy created jobs then WHY THE HELL AREN'T THERE ANY JOBS? This was passed under King George W. 10 years ago... what happened?
I'm going to come out and just say it...I don't give two flying @!$%#s about the negative opinions on here.
I have spent every moment since this announcement highly emotional and spiritually charged because finally, my President has come to see that I am an equal in this nation, and by god, I deserve equal rights.
It may not be equivalent to the words of the Emancipation Proclamation making their way across the nation to all the slaves, but it feels pretty damned good.
Thank you, Mr. President.
the goat lovers need his endorsement...if they are going to vote for him too...what a player for votes...obama is disgusting...
Indie Party, I do believe homsexuality is an abomination. I have a lovely little girl but the prices are just not high enough with this economy and all, and I just love shellfish thanks for asking, you sound like a very caring person. Now answer my question douce bag. Voice of Reason, As I stated earlier it is not up to me to judge But don't look for me to turn the other way when gays want something sacred to a man and a woman.
I disagree that he did this to buy more votes. Most black people are actually very homophobic and strongly against gay marriage, and I'm sure this announcement will anger many of them. On the other hand, it's not like they will go out and vote for Romney instead. Some may just stay home.
Notice he said it is a state's rights issue. Which means he really isn't much lending his support for gay marriage in any significant way. Gay marraige won't become reality for the vast majority of gays unless the SCOTUS steps in and legalizes it at the federal level.
Obama is against gay marriage, he is for gay marriage. What is that term liberals keep trying to use?? oh yeah
FLIP FLOPPER.
I love to se the right wingers rip their clothes! Why are they so threatened by gay marriage? Afraid of some unsolved issues?
JD did you forget the Kerry campaign and how Bush's crew painted a real military vet into a flip flop corner. Obama did it once and it was the right thing to do. Romney does it daily so get your little lick in because you are right about one thing. Payback.
Agreed Chad
Can we get a down arrow PLEASE?????
Your taxes? You DO realize that by and large, we make a great deal more money than straight households, pay higher taxes per dollar, pay more taxes as a whole, and cannot enjoy the tax breaks you've given yourself to pay for your feral children??
You DO realize that LGBT people cannot, by virtue of our legal status, leech of the American tax system like you do to pay for all your imbecilic unplanned reproduction?
As ignorant asses go...you're pretty far up there.
No, it's us who are sickened and tired of paying for your god damned life. Get off the government teet, you hypocritical arse!
He didnt change his mind to get more votes or because of some life changing ephipany...he did it for money, plain and simple. Real brave, Mr. President......nothing like being a sell-out
Flymaster
I did not call you an idiot... reread my post. I said "Please tell me you are not..." See the difference. It was a question based on the fact that you accused homosexuals of doing something many straight couples do.
Your statement did not make logical sense, thus I was driven to ask if you were less than intelligent.
Imagine if I said: "A man should not put his lips on the lips of another human being." See how dumb that sounds?
As far as taxes go... well that's even more confusing. How are YOUR taxes helping someone have anal sex? It doesn't make any sense. Maybe things are different in your household, but in mine... money and taxes are not used in sexual exploits. In fact, my wife would think I was crazy if I started talking about the money from other people being used to help our sex life. There is no correlation.
But like I said, maybe things are just different in your household. Maybe there is a cost for sexual activity, like you pay for it with food stamps or something. I don't know. No money and taxes are involved with my sex life, but to each their own. Who am I to judge?
Dina 749313 wrote:
"Maybe you missed the part about separation of Church and State????? Yours or anyones bible has NO PLACE in our government. Read a book much? Learn anything about the founding of the country at all??? Just because your bible teaches you to be a bigot against people who are not like you doesn't mean that everyone in the country subscribes to that nonsensical drival! How is someone elses marriage going to affect you? Are you in everyone's bedroom? Ew! Get out! All are created equal, heard that one ever?"
No where in the constitution does it say there should be a separation of church and state. Thomas Jefferson wrote it in a letter to a Baptist church in 1802. The first amendment says "The First Amendment states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Do you understand the last part? The people you call bigots are exercising their first amendment rights.
You bring up the founding fathers. How do you think they would have voted on gay marriage? I can also start posting quote after quote by our founding fathers concerning God and religion showing the majority of them believed in God and following a religion.
The Bible also says "Thou shalt not kill" and "Thou shalt not steal". Maybe they should take those laws off the books too because they have their roots in religion.
President Obama is a GREAT President for Endorsing Gay Marriage---He will win the 2012 Election.
Cool guy, and a great Communicator
Gay people are hypocrites. They still supported Obama even when he was against gay marriage. Obama is just trying to get the votes from people who are angry that he has not come out to fully support gay marriage. To put it simply: Election year = flip flop.
Obama still believes in his heart that gay marriage is wrong, he is just not going to tell you. It's all about the vote.
Flymaster
Well your mind wont be changed. I'll concede that you have aright to your opinion but you do not have the right to stop others being treated equal.
From your post it would appear the dirtiest part of the human is the human imagination. Since when is marriage about sex? Its about commitment and love, and about two people being protected by the federal laws it offers and if they have children it is about them as well.
I guess that this means if you are a N.C.er that you should jump the gun and bang the lady next door tonight. You all found out what happens when you cross Church and State. What I have to ask is what are you going to do about the mess-up that you made? It will cost you more money to back and do it all again. I wrote yesterday warning you not to drag God into mans issues.
"THAT THEY ARE ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR WITH CERTAIN INALIENABLE RIGHTS, AMONG THEM LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS."
In America, you get the same rights and privileges as every other American,....that INCLUDES marriage. Don't like it? Find yourself another country.
Mr. Dave in NM -
Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") is the differentiation of intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are good (or right) and those that are bad (or wrong).
I think you can figure out the rest of your question.
the "campaigner-in-chief" finally makes a decision........wow..suppose this is politically motivated????? what would this guy do during a real national crisis. and he's leading the most powerful nation on earth?????.....kinda scary!!!!!!
GOPisextinct -
"THAT THEY ARE ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR WITH CERTAIN INALIENABLE RIGHTS, AMONG THEM LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS."
You must give up these rights in order to marry.
Kresltov
I beieve it's an illness, just as you believe it's ok. If my taxes were used to help find a cure, that would be different. But to be used to further their perverted (in my opinion) beliefs, is against my beliefs.
So where do we find the common ground?
How does one exercise First Amendment rights by working to enact laws based solely on religious context that has no practical reasoning to discriminate? Remember the first part of the First Amendment (and for God's sake...don't quote the Constitution if you don't know well enough to get case correct in the name).
I can tell you how...they wouldn't have voted. They didn't vote. What they did was create a representative government where as society became more progressive, as did the government. The Founding Fathers had stated publicly on many occasions that there were things that they were not prepared to debate, but their hope was to allow progressive future generations to right those wrongs.
Those same men believed that religion had no place in government. Thomas Jefferson created his own version of the Bible...your point?
So you're saying it wasn't wrong to kill or steal before the Bible existed? REALLY? Wow...you're so full of it, I'm surprised you don't float off from all the hot air!
why do we need the oposite sex at all?
Dustin-265090
Are you here just to degrade other people and their beliefs? Why would someone who loves his fellow man be so hateful?
Climb back down your dirty, mud infested hole and STFU... unless you have something constructive to say without being so hateful and disrespectful.
I am SO glad he said this!! Simply confirms that this Community Organizer in Chief has no backbone and is so scared about the upcoming election he is trying to "stir up the base" as his only option. Lord knows he can't run on his record and has been a considerable failure in everything he has done - so what is his last and only hope? That's right - SUPPORT GAY MARRIAGE!! That's it!! Perfect!! Well done Mr. President!! NOT!!
So to try and get the "gay" vote (which he already had by the way) he is confirming that he doesn't give a tiny rat's behind about the country or the economy. The MOST important thing to him right now is to try and get votes and the ONLY votes he thinks he can get is the GLBT vote. HILARIOUS!! SIMPLY HILARIOUS!!
This upcoming election is going to be SO MUCH FUN:)!! To watch a man who has never had a real private sector job in his life trying to explain why the economy still sucks WORSE than when he took office. And he won't have an answer......... And his teleprompter will be blank........ But he will have on his RAINBOW t-shirt:)!! What a useless and pathetic president we have..............
I can't quite tell which one of you is arguing for or against marriage equality, but I should mention that the Declaration of Independence is not a legally binding document of the United States of America, and is merely formally recognized as a demand for independence from Britain by the Continental Congress.
If you're looking to prove that this nation believes, above all else, that all men are equal...look to the Constitution. The Constitution makes it clear that it is not the will of the government that empowers our nation, but the will and the power of the people that which the government derives it's power, and that the government must recognize all the people of these United States as equal.
Of course Mr. Obama and ALL his followers are going to support ANY kind of marriage EXCEPT a marriage BETWEEN A MAN AND WOMAN. If he didn't, then he would have a major problem with his instructions to the DOJ TO NOT DEFEND DOMA:
One and GONE !!!!!!
it is states rights not business of the federal gvt. Biden says he is comfortable with gay marriage... sure he is, until one of his kids tells him they are coming out of the closet, but God disapproves of homosexuality, adultery, murder, masturbation, stealing... because it is destructive to us the people He created. We all have a free will and God wont stop us... Look at the life of Jesus, how good and kind He operated then think if you want to discard the love He shows us...through His earthly life.
For all you koolaide drinkers swooning right now, Obama doesn't give a damn either way about gay marriage. He just is doing what come naturally to him: Pandering for votes from the leftwing zombies and fringe society groups. If Obama felt he could get more votes by not backing gay marriage, he would throw those aberations of nature right under a bus.
Are you @!$%#ing kidding me? Look at what you and others are saying...you're shielding yourself in religion to excuse your hatred and vitriol. I have only one thing to say now that the time is obviously here that your BS excuses cannot be tolerated anymore.
KISS...MY...ASS!!
Yeah, that's right...kiss it. It is long overdue that people recognized and called you out for who you are...bigoted, racist, hateful hacks who spew out filth and claim religious persecution whenever you're caught on it!!
Geo, I'll answer your question...
If by "God" you mean the creator of all things including, and by "homosexuality" you mean sexual relations between two humans of the same gender, both of which God created in His/Her own image... then YES I think He/She does support homosexuality.
A better question is do you think God thinks one of His/Her own creations is an abomination OR do you think homosexuality is the one human act God did not create and/or does not have control/dominion over? If God doesn't have control/dominion over homosexuality does not make Him/Her omnipotent? If God does have control/dominion over homosexuality, and he finds it an abomination in His/Her eyes, why doesn't He/She simply smite it? Is homosexuality, like prawns and cotton knits, simply too great a stone for God to remove from thine eyes?
If homosexuality is an abomination like eating shellfish or wearing clothes of different materials (both listed in the Bible as well) would you be just as offensive to God for refusing not to eat shrimp or wearing blends (i.e. damnable to Hell) as homosexuals? If not, why do you get a reprieve for shrimp but not same-sex relations? If all sins are equal, why be so proud of your love of shellfish since God makes no value distinctions for sins? If you dont get a reprieve for shellfish do you eat it because you don't care what God says, you're simply born this way to eat shrimp?
If eating shellfish is a sin akin to homosexuality (since God makes no value judgements about sins; all are abominations in His/Her sight) then, using the Sermon on the Mount as guide, is anyone who watches a "Red Lobster" commerical and gets hungry just as guilty of sinning as a man who watches "Sparatacus" and gets a woodie ("I have lusted for crab legs in my heart...")? If you scan through a Vogue magazine and find a cute poly-cotton blend blouse that might look cute on you do you just assume you're going to hell for coveting mixed fabrics?
Really, geo, how does this "Pick and choose the sins I'll be damned for" thing work exactly?
"Hope and Change' means, you 'Hope' he'll 'Change' his mind, well as we all know, he changes his mind to what you want to hear at the time. What a flip-flopping, bullsh!t artist, say what you mean and mean what you say, so now; follow your puppet master, the guy is a joke and the joke is on you. He'll tell you anything to get re-elected and you swallowed it hook, line and sinker.
I love reading how the USA is falling apart from my beachfront home on Cost Rica, we got out just in time before the Obama destruction of the country. I just hope that the 'Change' doesn't come down here to paradise ....! Good luck Obama suckers ....! You have now been officially T-Bagged ...!
geo
So you treat the Bible like a Chinese take-out menu. You pick the parts you like, "homosexuality is an abomination"... and get rid of the parts you don't like, "sell your daughter into slavery". You basically pick and choose all the parts that justify your own version of Christianity, molding it to your own taste. Seems awfully disrespectful if you ask me. How do you think God feels about you treating his religion this way?
Worst case, you are heretic to your own religion... changing it to fit your own needs. Best case, you are simply a hypocrite to your own religion. I'm sure Jesus would be proud of you.
Your question: I would not venture to assume I know what God "thinks" about homosexuality. I know that over 12 gospels were written about Jesus and only 4 used to form a religion. I know that religious institutions, similar to the one you ascribe to, destroyed the other gospels because they did not fit THEIR definition of "Christianity". I know that Jesus NEVER mention homosexuals... not even once. I know that Jesus preached love and acceptance more than anything else, according to the gospels we are privy to. I know that God supposedly "loves" all his children, and they he supposedly created all of them. I know that Jesus often told parables of helping the oppressed. I know that Jesus often helped those society, and the leading religions, shunned. And I know that Christians, like YOU, follow principles set forth by leading religions instead of following Jesus.
I also know that homosexuality deals with the attraction to the same sex... and attraction is a product of dopamine and serotonin being released in your brain due to external influences. I know that you have ZERO control over the release of dopamine and serotonin, and thus the resulting "attraction" feeling is not within your control. I know that these scientific facts prove that homosexuality is not a choice, as you have no choice over when dopamine and serotonin are released. I know that if it is not a choice, it must be something inherent within you, something you are born with... thus your God created someone that way, for a purpose (if you ascribe to that sort of belief).
So, based on your Christian logic... God created all his "children" with a purpose, God loves all his children, God created homosexuals, Jesus spent his life helping the oppressed, Jesus spread love, Jesus NEVER mentioned homosexuality, Jesus warned against following the church leaders, and analyzing the life of Jesus, from which we are supposed to model our own life, we see that we are not to judge or presume to "know" what God intends... Thus, I come to the conclusion that God would love homosexuals and that he created them for a specific purpose.
Or you can ignore ALL OF THAT, and instead focus on one tiny little verse, found in Leviticus, that condemns homosexuality while also supporting slavery and selling your own daughter.
Hmmmm... follow the book that supports slavery? Or follow the life of Jesus that supports love and acceptance, while trusting that God has a purpose for everyone? Tough decision.
Well, we all know which path YOU decided to follow. You sure the price for your daughter is too high? Remember, the book YOU follow supports selling her. Just saying.
That answer your question, cupcake?
No practical reason for discriminating?
THe purpose of marriage has always been to provide a stable unit, a stablity needed to raise the next generation. Gay marriage breaks down the stability and purpose of marriage. Wanting laws that allow for gay marriage is nothing but a selfish, self serving demand. What can gay married couples provide for our society with that cannot be done by heterosexual marriage already? Nothing. It is a private affair, gays wanting it just so that they HAVE it, and nothing about it contributes to our society. Laws are for a society, to better our society, to protect our society. How does this law do either thing? Heterosexual marriage gives some advantages, true, but tell me, when did heterosexuals go on the rampage and DEMAND these rights? Gays want them just to have them, but offer nothing to the community in return, except for the downfall of our society
Dustin-265090
Thanks for proving my point :)
Oh wow...what a ray of sunshine you are...
You're a REAL piece of work, and you need to see someone about that.
I love the part in the article where Romney talks about how HE doesn't believe in gay marriage, etc., etc." I thought that presidents, et al, had to listen to their constituents and vote for what the constituents want and not for what they believe......maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that Government was "for the people, by the people, and of the people;" I didn't realize that our representatives could vote for what THEY want in lieu of what WEwant. Don't we pay their salaries??? Hmmm, I think they need a little re-education in their duties as representatives of the American citizens. If they can't vote for what the consensus of their constituents want; they shouldn't be in office!
So funny...listening to all these guys whining about gays...and sure as hell they turn to watch porn later and tune in on chick on chick action. Just about every tv show has some sort of clip with this action and I have never seen or heard a guy complain then...... phoney indignation.......
Proving your point? Because I have righteous indignation over your obvious and disgusting discrimination? Try telling a black person that they're blackness is a disease...go ahead, I dare you.
Like I said...you have problems.
Purpose of marriage is to give the role of the church ...any church...any religion to get into a part of your life. It is a business. The church wants you to follow their rules to make more money for those pointy hats and costumes they wear. All the money spent on all these glorius churches and retreats shold be spent on the poor and needy. I noticed today on the History channel doing history of KKK. Costumes and big pointy hats just like the churches.......
Lola writes......Gay marriage breaks down the stability and purpose of marriage. Really? How would someone elses marriage of any kind break down your marriage? That is so laughable...if two gays got married it would destroy your stable marriage.......aaaahahahahahaha Quit watching them then!
STOP THE PRESSES....STOP THE PRESSES.....Barry finally made a decision.......No politics here is there!!!!
Hey, I've got news...your argument has been shot down in case, after case, after case. Look at the Prop 8 trial...every courtroom that has seen this argument has agreed that it has no basis in fact. As a matter of fact, your assumption that marriage exists to provide a stable unit is laughable...the option to choose one's partner or even decide to get married at all didn't exist for MANY THOUSANDS of years!!!
I think President Obama is a political pragmatist. He's seen which way the wind is blowing and is going with it. It's fine if he backs marriage equality now, but he's pretty much gone with how the country at large has felt. When he got elected, you had a lot of people viewing civil unions as fine and balking at calling it marriage. Now you have more people just saying, "Call it marriage and get it over with!" So he feels safe saying marriage.
This is one of the funniest things I've read this afternoon. Right now, Obama stands for nothing except for securing more votes. In the not so distant past, he was against gay marriage. It doesn't take a Ph.D. in political science to see that he's just trying to reach out to different groups now so he can retain his job in November. If he wins, he'll likely revert back to his former stance against gay marriage, because he'll have no re-election to worry about. I highly doubt that he had some major epiphany that permanently swayed his views regarding same sex marriage. Next thing you know, he'll be opening up all of our borders and giving anyone that comes in to the country the right to vote automatically.
P.S. I have absolutely no problem with same-sex marriage, and I consider myself to be a staunch conservative regarding the vast majority of political matters. My issue is the flip-flopping like this by members of both parties that always seems to occur around election time. Politicians should stand up for what they believe, and if that means they take their lumps for it on election day, then so be it. I would much rather stick to my guns and get demolished at the polls than win by being something I'm not or "standing" for something I don't believe.
Dustin-265090
Guess I'll lower myself to your level for a brief time...
Take your filty dirty penis and stick it in someone else's filthy ear. I don't give a flying ahole about your disfuctional and stupid idea of sex, so stop trying to cram it in my ear.
Now i have to go waste my hands about 100 times before I'll be clean again.
Feel better Dustin?
I'm glad to see Obama take a stand. Me personally I never felt threatened by same sex marriage so I went through life thinking this has nothing to do with my life. I'm not gay ,what do I care,I'm not against it. So I do nothing. Well that is just as bad as someone who opposes gay marriage. It is important to support our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters. They are entitled to the same rights as the rest of us. We need to protect their rights, Learn to understand instead of hate. These people have suffered enough. When you think of all the bullying and murder and suicide they have endured because of selfish people battling their own issues and masking them with convienient beliefs of righteousness. Gay America , Gay Marriage Let's hear it for the modern world. Way to go Barack !!!! If you can step up, so can I. Let's all be Americans and do the right thing. Support people who love . One World. Amen.
You are a seriously @!$%#ing disturbed person. You apparently think about gay sex a lot more than I do, and sexual activity that anyone would find off-beat.
Please go somewhere else where the people won't mind you putting their penises in your ears, in your imagination.
You have a filthy, filthy mind.
Flymaster
On this issue there is not common ground. You of course have no say where your tax dollars go, You could of course take it to the courts but it would not go in front of a judge as he would deem it as an action without merit.
Fell free to think what you wish that is your right. The fact remains that marriage equality will prevail.
Muslim Radicals who are the Republican Party will obviously be upset by this.
But for Commie Democrats, it'd be better received if it wasn't just another way to not fix the economy.
Still, a good day for human rights. A bad day for those Koran readers who want to avoid a lake of eternal fire.
winemaker-5901072
You are right about that. I did my homework, I didn't get it from Faux news only.
I am certain that it will not move. Why should it? The amendment is against the Constitution in NC, and it would only be a matter of time before the US Supreme Court overturns it anyway. How is this a setback? You mean we have a President that believes in equal rights for all americans? That's not a set back, that's a leap forward.
No, that's what republicans do. They create the problem, whine about a solution, and do not offer one that benefits the rest of us.
He can and will run on his record. Please show me in great detail his record. Show me where he has not fulfilled his campaign promises, and then show me where the Repulicants have offered a solution that is better? He has not started a war on Gay Marriage, he supports it. The Republicans are the ones who want to tell women what they can and cannot do, and the catholic church is at war with anyone who does not subscribe to their beliefs. Remember, religious beliefs end where secular law begins.
The economy is taking steps in the right direction. Corporations have achieved their pre profit levels before the recession hit. Where are the jobs? Oh wait, that's right, we pay them with our tax dollars to move overseas. President Obama is going to hit a home run in his second term.
Dustin-265090
Now that's what i call 'calling the kettle black'.
Krestov
That's one of the rights I have as an American if it ever got to that. I'm hoping and voting otherwise.
Btw Krestov, thanks for being civil about the discussion, unlike Dustin.
(oh geez, now i have to wash my hands again)
In any case he wil get the 'gay' vote going for him this year
Note - Obama came out for gay marriage after the polls apparently show that over half of Americans think gays should be "married". Question. is Obama's evolving positions equate to the evolving of the polling information?
Health care reform came to mind when I read this. I recall the majority of Americans voting against it in polls nationwide before the bill was passed. Based on Didi's logic, Obama shouldn't be in office nor should anyone in Congress that voted for the bill unless, of course, the majority of voters in their district were in favor of it.
Say all you rt wing birthers and gay bashers...... Romney says corporations are people too. Show me their Birth certificate! What gender is a corporation? Both genders huh? Welll hell....you can't be in favor of Romney who supports corporations going both ways then can you?.....................
BTW...polls have shown for a long time in favor of gay issue, it was not just because of PRESIDENT OBAMA checking out recent polls. Quit watching Fox news you will find out it is not 1950. PRESIDENT OBAMA......PRESIDENT OBAMA....nice ring to it! PRESIDENT OBAMA OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
Obama / Biden 2012
OF COURSE they should be allowed to marry! Marriage is nothing more, nor less, than a contract. If two people are old enough to sign a legal contract, they should be allowed to be married, regardless of their gender/s.
Flymaster
Simple... you are free to "think" whatever you want. You are free to have whatever hateful "opinion" you want. You are free to think it's gross. (I am willing to bet that the majority of people would be grossed out thinking about you having sex too... someone might be a little chub chub, you know what I mean?) You are free to say that you don't "accept" them or their lifestyle.
Ok, so THAT is what you can do. Just like racists sit in their house and complain about black people, or muslims, or mexicans, or whoever... you can sit there and complain about homosexuals. And you can stew in your own hatred until the day you die. Have at it. I know people like you, that is exactly what they do.
However, you do NOT have the right to oppress the people you do not like. You do NOT have the right to limit their rights as citizens. Just like racists, you can still hate them... but you can NOT limit their rights.
THAT is the common ground. They live their life, with the same rights as you... You live your life, with the same rights as them. You can still hate, don't worry. No one is taking that away from you. You can still call them names while you watch NASCAR and drink your Coors light... maybe throw an empty beer can at the TV when you see a commercial for Ellen. It's cool. But you can't take away their rights based on your personal opinion about them.
Sound fair? I think so.
Personally I favor civil unions, but this will have no impact on my complete support for the president. If anything, it shows real leadership and conviction rather than non-stop pandering like Romney, who has NO core or balls.
From the Article:
See he made his choice by mounting pressure. His belief, a few years back was one man one woman, now he caves in to mounting pressure.
Hes not standing for what he believes in. He stated years ago , one man one woman. Yes he wanted to see civil unions and was fine with that, but he made it clear, one man, one woman for marriage. Now hes trying to whistle another tune because his election is coming up, and hes doing great tactics, no doubt suggested from his political analysts , campaign managers to give him the best chances for re election. Hes not standing for anything, hes being bullied. He is one person, WE are the majority, and we want it kept the way it is. He was standing for something to begin with, he said one man , one woman, that sounds like a stand to me. But enough crying and belly aching, you can only listen to so much. He caved in to political pressure, i guarantee you , behind closed doors, hes still the one man, one woman president.
North Carolina spoke loud and clear, they made their stand, and people need to respect what the majority voted on. You may not like, you may not agree with it, but people stand for what they believe in.
They are not anti gay, they are pro marriage.
Flip flopper.... he's worried about poll numbers so he is pivoting to get his numbers up...
Thank you! Many Christians (like the Westboro Baptist folks) seem to me like they are missing that fact.
If you believe that God does't make mistakes and that every one of us is exactly how He made us, and you also believe that God is in every man, every woman, everywhere, then wouldn't hating another person mean you hate God too? Wouldn't that be an implicit criticism--"hey, look, I know you think you made everyone perfect and all, but I think you made a mistake with those people over there because they like others of the same gender" or "those people over there because they have the wrong color skin."
I may not be Christian anymore, but I was raised Catholic, and I believed then, as I believe now, that the Supreme Being (whatever you want to call that Being) doesn't see the skin you wear. S/He doesn't see what clothes you put on to hide your figure flaws, doesn't care what makeup you put on to make yourself look pretty. That Supreme Being only sees your soul, and what's in it, and that, in the end, is what's going to matter.
For anyone curious, I'm a practicing Wiccan and I believe in the Goddess's directive: "All acts of love and pleasure are My gifts." The Wiccans have sects for lesbians (Dianic Wiccans) and gays (the Minoan Brotherhood) and even for adult incestuous relationships (though this raises eyebrows, as long as it is consensual the majority of us cold care less.) As long as it is consensual and doe in love, I could care less. I am married, have two kids, am bi, and have had lesbian relationships. And my husband despite being raised Christian, has absolutely no problem with being married to a witch or being married to a woman who appreciates a Victoria's Secret model as much as he does!
And while we're at it: if I were in NC and I were a practicing Dianic Wiccan who wanted to handfast with a woman--wouldn't the NC law abridge MY freedom to practice MY religion, therefore violating MY 1st Amendment rights?
I hope he becomes the flip flopper you conservatives are accusing him of... I hope he flip flops on the Bush tax cuts, I hope he flip flops on health reform and introduces a public option and universal heath care, I hope he flip flops on his war stance, I hope he flip flops on his policy regarding tax breaks for corporations and churches. Yeah I could get behind that flip flopper in a big way. Flip Flopney is your flip flopper now I have mine. Game set match...
Kevin, I agree with you. I am glad he finally did something worthwhile. I don't want to see him in office again. But, I have many gay friends that should be married, want to be married and treated as they are married.
I am in favor of gay marriage (regulated by the churches not the state, and yes you'd be surpised at how many churches would back gay marriage). I'm not in favor of state-run gay marriage policies as I think they have a tendency to force gay marriage on priests that don't wanna (remember the whole thing of trying to get Catholics, who teach "every life is sacred" to teach about abstinence? Same deal). It's a church matter, and should be left up to the churches.
"No law shall be made to force or restrict a marriage of any kind, as decided by freedom of religion."
Unfortunately, I hate Obama. With good reason, he's like the reverse Midas. Everything he touches turns to garbage. He's liable to endorse this law in the worst possible way, making it a mandate. "No man or woman can remain unmarried..." or something like that. Look at what he did with healthcare!
IndieParty
WTF is up with you and Dustin? You two can't say anything without being hateful and disrespectful.
I never once said that I hated anyone, I just don't agree with it. That makes me hateful?
To bad there's to many Dustins and Indies in the world and not enough Krestovs. :(
Why does someone opposition to gay marriage a hateful opinion ? Please show me how that is hateful ?
Also how are gay people being oppressed ? What qualifies them to be oppressed ?
Our definition of marriage is already made clear with DOMA , one man and one woman. Also no one should or can force any state to have to accept any type of marriage other then what has already been defined as marriage. North Carolina spoke, and has been heard. Good for them for standing and supporting marriage.
Problem in todays society is that people whine and cry about everything. If they dont like rules and regulations they whine with pressure until they get it their way and to hell with anyone elses thinking. Whos the bigots ? Who are the ones who dont respect other peoples views ? Its the ones out there stomping around crying bloody murder because they want something that is already defined and is perfect the way it is.
If we take the boundary of marriage away, what stops the next group of people who want to demand rights to marry their sister, brother, father, mother, sons, daughter , cousins , or maybe marry your animals so they get equal rights.
Lets change the boundary on everything else in life, what murder is, or what lying is, or what being intoxicated is.. ect ect when will be just let things be the way they are , when they are fine the way they are.
Also let me point out about a gays rights to marry. They have the same exact right as me, by law, right now to marry someone of the opposite sex. It may not be their preference, and I respect that, but im saying by law, they do indeed have the same right as me. To change the law now, your taking away my boundary , my belief. IM all for them being able to have a civil union for legal purposes, but marriage is fine the way it is.
@Joshua Skains...you're referring to the "gay agenda" as if it's some malicious terrorist threat, but what you've described in your post is nothing more than a group of human beings asking for ALL of the exact same rights that the rest of us enjoy and take for granted every day. Why should they settle for having some rights but not others? How on earth are we "being played"?? I feel like the only ones "playing" us are those who are against equality, and then make up bs reasons for their position (i.e. religion, family values, etc.). THOSE are the people that are spewing baseless propaganda regarding hate and intolerance, and clouding the issues. The "gay agenda" is transparent, always has been...and, more importantly, equality is always the right thing. Embrace it.
It shows real leadership and conviction as opposed to pandering? I think a lot of people are forgetting that this is an election year and that Obama opposed gay marriage not too long ago. Flip-flopping with your beliefs does not show conviction, and that goes for people on both sides of the aisle. The way I see it, we're looking at another election in which we're forced to choose between the lesser of two evils. None of the front runners appear to be deserving of the job.
For those who deny there is a homosexual agenda, here it is from them in 1972:
http://article8.org/docs/general/platform.htm
At what point do you disagree with them?
Really??? REALLY???? It never ceases to amaze me how many of you honestly believe this is about gay rights. It has everything to do with staying in the oval office. Talk about pandering.
I just think it's funny to hear Brian Williams, in subtly uncomfortable tones, talk about a conversation Obama had with his daughters who have kids in their classes "who are a byproduct of same sex couples." Yea, a lesbian or gay man managed to adopt a child (it's pretty difficult finding an agency who will do that, still) but that child is still a byproduct of a male sperm and a female egg, are they not?
Are we going to start pretending now that it doesn't require both a man and a woman to produce a child? lol Really people. That's not "tollerance." That's ignoring something we've all known since we learned about the birds and the bees.
Oh yea, and go ahead an pick at the definition of "byproduct" please, cause I don't that it's "something produced in the making of something else." And it's clear that children are produced in the making of a lesbian or gay couple, right? ...uh, wrong.
Flymaster....I don't think you understand the point that either Indie or Dustin is trying to make. I despise organized religions of all kinds. However, that does not give me the right to vote down you being able to attend the church of your choice. Regardless of how moronic I feel religion is, I should not be able to stop you from legally participating in any aspect of either your religion or within the confines of the law. Now do you understand where they are coming from? You do not have the right, whether you think it is perverted or not, to prevent people from their civil rights!
Don't like gay marriage? Fine. Don't get one.
GOPis extinct, you left out the most important part:
We hold these truths to be self evident, that ALL [people] are... equal.
Since it was decided to extend those tax cuts under the Obama administration, I think we can start calling them Obama tax cuts as well. He had to opportunity to get rid of them when the Democrats controlled practically everything in Washington, but he did not. He was too focused on ramming his vision of health care down our throats and making sure the votes got in for that before anyone new took office to insure it passed to do anything regarding the tax cuts.
Flymaster
What hate or disrespect? I was just pointing out what you CAN do.
You asked for "common ground"... I gave it to you: You can keep your thoughts, ideas and beliefs, but you can not use those to take away the rights of someone else.
What is hateful about that?
Sure, I may have taken some creative freedoms to describe exactly what thoughts you are allowed to possess... but those were just examples. I don't necessarily believe you will throw an empty beer can at your TV... it could be full. HA!
Relax, don't take everything so personal. You have a really thin skin.
Listen, pal. The point is that we can not allow groups of people to take away the rights of other people, simply based on a personal opinion of them. How would you feel if a group of people suddenly felt that fly fishing was morally wrong, and tried to take away your right to marry? You would be up in arms... throwing beer cans like crazy (sorry, couldn't resist). But do you see the point?
We can't let groups just start taking away the freedoms of other people, just because they don't like them.
And, come on... you really think anyone here believes you do not hate gays? Please. You're not fooling anyone. But that's the nice thing about this country, you are free to hate. You just can't oppress.
Unfortunately the American Public has been bombarded by the Tea Party Fox news groups and if the Tea Party [Republicans] have their way we will be voting to be able to lynch [you know who] people for a Friday's night entertainment. Polls already say they are anti-Obama because of his color. We are regressing folks. Soon we will be ruled by the U.S. versions of the Mullahs who guise their religion in corporation Lobbyist's.
Have people forgotten what Bush and Cheney did to destroy the United States. It became the sign of a patriotic American to want to torture people then dismiss it ala the Nazis and the Japanese during WWII.
I have no faith in the U.S. citizenry anymore.
These Tea Party Christians are already convinced that they are persecuted. Imagine how they will react when in power and people voice dissent. You think your privacy is being intruded on now - wait until they have the power of the NSA behind them. You see how vengeful they are already. Making posters of Obama with bones through his nose and showing up at rally's with automatic weapons strapped to their back.
Good luck America.
The Audacity of Hope...
Ryan.. writes.."Since it was decided to extend those tax cuts under the Obama administration."............trying to do the ol spin lie with the republican tax breaks for the rich huh? The whole nation except the billionaires were against tax breaks for the rich...but the Obstructionist republicans held the nation hostage until they got them. Now Romeney wants more tax breaks for the rich when he endorsed the ....RYAN...plan ...Must be a relative of yours huh?
Damon
You make this too easy buddy. At least give me a challenge.
You are limiting their rights, based on a personal belief you hold towards them. You don't allow them to benefit from the tax breaks, property rights, asset allocation, benefits, health care, and every other thing that straight couples receive.
Basically, you are saying that they do not have the right to benefit from the legal, government-back contract, which assigns certain benefits to each party member... all because you personally do not like who they are.
That, my friend, is oppression.
Welcome to America, where oppressed minorities can stand up to the tyranny of the majority. If no one ever stood up against rules that they did not agree with, we would still have slavery.
You can have your view, no one is taking that away. But you can not use your "view" to take away the rights of others.
Because those groups pose a significant cost to society. The retarded offspring of inbred couples increases costs on society, thus we are better off, as a whole, by banning actions that may hinder society as a whole. No one... and I mean NO ONE... has ever proven an actual cost, hindrance, or negative affect that gay marriage has on society. Inbred relationships damage society as a whole, homosexual relationships do not.
And animals? Really? We have this little thing called "consent"... you know, the reason you can't force any woman to have sex with you. The fact that I have to explain this throws your intelligence into question.
Harms another person, potentially harms another person, places yourself and others at risk.
*Yawn*.... still no correlation to homosexuality. You have yet to prove a negative impact that homosexual marriage poses on society.
Not necessarily... YOU have the right to marry the person you love, they do not. You are limiting their right based on your opinion of them.
Your boundary? LOL... How does gay marriage take away YOUR boundary or belief? Really, I have to hear this.
You can still "believe" it is wrong... that does not change. And your boundary? LOL. Seriously, man. How the f*** does gay marriage affect YOUR life, to the extent that it removes one of your boundaries? What, will it make it so YOU can not get married? Or maybe it takes away that special little superiority complex you have going on, making you feel better than gay people because you can get married.
To claim that gay marriage will take away one of your "boundaries" is retarded, to say the least. Provide factual evidence that YOU will personally lose a "boundary" if gay marriage is allowed. This should be hilarious.
Even now the pulpits of religions are planning the enlarged and hotter environs of hell. The rainbow above though, is bright and pretty.
Ho hum. Non-news. He's just going back to the well that got him elected the first time.
Sadly, they'll probably be stupid enough to vote for him again.
didi, you have it all wrong. A presidential candidate is in no way obligated to run on a platform that the people want. If you don't like the fact the he, or any candidate, is pro or anti anything, don't vote for the guy. Congressional people are the ones that have the obligation to follow what their constituants want.
When it comes to wining votes, money and power anything is ok and normal, even if they have to hide behind the bible. Now, if a man has a hole to poo and a vigina, then please claim you are a woman. if a woman has a hole to poo and a stick to pee, then claim you are a man. if not then let' make it normal for humans and other animals to do it too.
DB Akron
Obama stated how and why his view evolved. You have that and you have what you want to believe... what fits nicely in the "he can't possibly just be telling the truth" theory of Obama. Another way to look at it is that the polls show that hundreds of thousands of peoples' views evolved... why not Obama's?
Indie....nice retort! I have yet to hear....by ANY of the homophobes here....how gay marriage has ANY effect on straight marriages or ANYTHING ELSE in this country. How exactly does allowing gays the same rights as the rest of us do anything negative to them? I will never understand unless I can get a good explanation from them, hence, I will never understand.
IndieParty
Hey Indie, let me help here. Damon's logic is severely flawed...
Although it is perfectly legal to be gay or lesbian, we currently sanction "Marriage" and make it available to all except to gays and lesbians. By affording rights and/or privileges to some at the exclusion of others, the law is unconstitutional... it discriminates against a portion of our citizenry.
As far as marrying relations or animals, these "unions" are illegal for all and, therefore do not afford any rights or privileges at the exclusion of anyone... thereby being legal and constitutional. As long as you treat everyone the same and don't violate any specific other provisions, it's legal to not allow it.
Make sense?
"that's not normal"
"It's NOT normal!"
"they will never be accepted because it's not normal"
This is the problem; an ongoing obsession with what is perceived to be "normal" and the need to be accepted as such. I feel bad for those who grew up in excessively restrictive environments. Throughout their entire lives they have been squeezed into small spaces by the social pressure and reinforcement of family, friends, their church, and their community. Their world is confined to a bubble, figuratively speaking. This isn't just about gay marriage or the gay "lifestyle".
It's about basic psychological freedom. There are those of us here on the newsvine that recognize this, those who are apathetic, and those that actively seek to impede upon this freedom. Activities or behaviors that do no mental or physical harm to oneself or others need not be scrutinized or restricted in any way.
Medical marijuana spelled it's own doom. A while back there was a story on NPR where the reporter was able to get a prescription from a doctor for something like a sore shoulder. If you want to legalize marijuana that's a different story but medical marijuana was used to much as a cover for simple drug use.
Why did he wait so long to stand up for it? You guessed it he is trying desperately to get reelected. He really doesn't care about same sex marriage so much as he cares about the vote.
It depends. For someone facing foreclosure on their house, that's their most pressing issue. For someone looking for a decent job, that's their most pressing issue. But for those seeing their rights being denied, and unfair unnecessary restrictions being placed on their lives, THAT IS their most pressing issue.
I'm not insisting on that word, I'm insisting on those rights and responsibilities that are legally associated with that word. I'd be happy with "civil union" or "domestic partnership" if it gave all the legal rights that marriage gives - but as of now, it doesn't.
Nobody defines "nature" by means of marriage, how often do you hear "Oh, look at that married couple, they are not violating the laws of nature". A much more practical definition of "laws of nature" is "those things that occur in nature". Since same-sex mating has been repeatedly observed in nature in many different species, it is not a "violation of the laws of nature".
Of the adult community, approximately 10% are exclusively homosexual. About 49% of adult men over the age of 30 have had at least one homosexual experience. That still leaves a substantial population of breeders to keep the population growing.
Do your taxes go to benefit other married couples? Not really. Your taxes pay for the numerous government benefits you receive. Gay people, married or not, also pay taxes and receive the same government benefits that you get. There are no special benefits that gay people get, married or not, no special privileges that are not available to everyone else. However, there are special benefits that go to married people that you unfairly want to deny to certain "sinners".
It's all about persecuting those sinners, isn't it?
" ... What does that say about NC? ... "
That just like anywhere else in this country, the ignorant, the bigoted, the homophobic, the racist and those easily frightened will vote against their own best interest. As usual.
That once again they will vote as they are told, by the likes Rush, Glenn and the lovely folks at Fox News. Because it's easier to go with blind faith then it is to think for oneself.
So yes, it might cause the President to loose some, many, votes in places like N.C..
But personally, I don't want another disaster like that of the Bush Administration.
Thank you, President Obama, for taking a courageous stand for equal rights in our country. You already had my vote, but you just reassured me that I am making the right decision. Let gays come out of the closet, and let's send hatred and bigotry back into the closet - where they belong.
See here is where you are wrong. " You are limiting their rights, based on a personal belief you hold towards them"
I have no belief system toward them, I am pro marriage meaning I support a law that defines marriage between one man, one woman.
As for gays having equal rights, I am all for that through civil union. I think they deserve such and should be entitled to such benefits.
Thats weird I thought we lived in a country where the state represents the people, and goes by what they want. Thats exactly how it should be. North carolina is a prime example of people speaking and standing by their belief.
I totally understand your point about standing up for the minority and the oppression of slaves in our past, but that is not even in the same ball park . Were talking about physical , mental, social oppression, degrading of said people. It is a direct action of people that are oppressing. People standing up for marriage is not oppression. Its is a right of people standing behind a law that is already in place that defines marriage.
How did I know you were going to say this ? You must never do any critical thinking. If your stating that the only reason a brother and sister can not get married is due to money costs to society, and having retarded offspring then your never allowing critical thinking. What if they never have kids and to ensure that they are fixed so they cant, or what if they never have sex then they could never have kids. Also trying to say homosexual relationships do not cost society anything is a false statement. Should we dig up the detrimental effects of homosexual lifestyle ? Physcially, mentally, socially ? Should we compare statistics between heterosexual and homosexual lifestyles ? Its quite staggering.
But see your forgetting something. Were are now trying to redefine marriage, and since were in the mood to change every thing to accomadate the minority, we should now also accomadate and redefine consent. Look indie, your trying to take away boundaries already in place, so no need to stop.
Marriage is not defined by whom you love, its by one man and one woman. Even if they dont love someone of the opposite sex, they still have the right to marry them. Now why would someone marry a person they dont love ? That is a different story and irrelevant to a law of people being able and having the right to marry opposite sex.
The boundary is the definition of marriage that is already in place. I stand behind it, and when you try to take that way it is an attack on a set of beliefs long before you and I were around. Who are you to come and just change it on a whim, because you feel its wrong. How about those who feel its right ?
LMarcT
Excellent points, both logical and factual. Of course, the anti-gay crowd will just ignore your points instead of addressing them directly.
stevef00
I am waiting for that explanation as well. But let's be honest, the reason no one in the anti-gay crowd will explain how gay marriage negatives affects their own marriage is because they know it does not affect them.
They know the truth... they know that gay marriage will have ZERO impact on their own marriage. So they avoid the question, change the topic, and divert the conversation towards the religious angle. It's a constant back and forth game, where they refuse to support any of their comments with factual evidence... they just keep changing the topic and going in circles.
To Didi - How about you stop spouting Liberal talking pionts about Romney and look up his record. He stated he believes marriage is between a women and man and that it was up to the states to decide on gay manriage. You are aware of the fact that Governor Romney sign the gay marriage act for the state of MA. He ddin't veto the bill. You fool.
There are still a few posts that haven't been collapsed yet. You guys are slowing down. :rolling eyes:
(self-absorbed, self-righteous idiots)
Its not flawed, its critical thinking and open mindedness , thinking outside the box and not being pressured by the politcally correct agenda. I swear so many of you just cant get it into your heads the point being made.
Yes they are illegal, and they currently do not have right, but are we not saying the same thing about gay rights this moment ? If / when they win their way, and marriage is redefined, then expect there to be more support for marriage to be open to anything. Who are you to now judge and say what is constitutional or not with marriage ? If you can stand behind gays being married, then you better stand behind close relations being married, if not, then you are the hypocrite .
How did I spin anything or lie? Those tax cuts that everyone complains about were extended under Obama. Like I said before, if he had wanted to get rid of them completely, he had the chance. For a while there, Democrats pretty much owned Washington, yet nothing was done. I was merely trying to point out that you can't really lay all of the blame on one side when the other side had the opportunity to rectify the situation but did nothing about it.
Personally, I think all of the bickering between the two sides is ridiculous. It's great to have differing opinions since without them, nothing would ever change. The problem is how those differing opinions are dealt with. All too often, we take on an "it's my way or the highway" approach. If our leaders and representatives would keep their egos in check, this country would be a lot better off. There are merits to arguments from the far left just as there are merits to those from the far right. We need to work on combining those and meeting in the middle because all of the bickering gets us nowhere. I said I was a staunch conservative on the majority of issues before, but that doesn't mean that I think liberals are complete idiots. I can agree that some of the ideas that come from the liberal side just as good as those that come from my line of thinking. Just imagine what we could do if we put all the bullsh*t aside and combined them.
Interesting: N.C. in the top 5 "Most Porn Crazy States" USNEWS.msnbc
The Top 10:
1. Orlando, Fla.
2. Las Vegas
3. Wilmington, Del.
4. Raleigh, N.C.
5. Charlotte, N.C.
6. Minneapolis
7. Atlanta
8. Tampa, Fla.
9. Anchorage, Alaska
10. Austin, Texas
"Church-goers bought less online porn on Sundays – a 1% increase in a postal code's religious attendance was associated with a 0.1% drop in subscriptions that day. However, expenditures on other days of the week brought them in line with the rest of the country, Edelman finds.
Residents of 27 states that passed laws banning gay marriages boasted 11% more porn subscribers than states that don't explicitly restrict gay marriage.
States where a majority of residents agreed with the statement "I have old-fashioned values about family and marriage," bought 3.6 more porn subscriptions per thousand people than states where a majority disagreed."
I don't believe they even make porn with only one heterosexual couple (would be kind of boring). I believe that most porn is with multiple men and always several woman involved with each other. Interesting that N.C and "old-fashioned values" people are this interested in porn, but so concerned about what goes on in someone elses bedroom and a (marriage) certificate on the wall.
With a 50% heterosexual divorce rate and all the "who's my babies daddy" issues, I would think that N.C. and the others with such serious issues on the subject should look into their own issues at home and in their own bedrooms.
Sad to see so many closed minded people. Why do people trot out religion and God to condemn same-sex marriage? What ever happened to equal rights for everyone or live and let live? Does that only apply if the person is not gay? Rather shallow, don't you think?
On one hand I believe the President did the right thing; on the other, I don't understand why it took so long. We cannot unite our country while we continually pander to prejudices - ALL of them - race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, etc. People need to focus on real issues, not things that become issues because some people make them controversial.
Being closed-minded is not useful in today's world. In the grand scheme of things, this should be a non-issue.
I'm proud the president has the courage to touch such a controversial topic, and take what seems to be the less popular side. The whole bloody war over same-sex marriage though has always kind of puzzled me. I simply don't understand how those who aren't directly effected by the law (who want to marry someone of the same sex) have much of an argument against it. Someone clarify? it just doesn't make sense to me...
Damonwv: have you ever had a gay or lesbian friend? The societal fear of them is physical, mental, and social oppression. The fear associated with "coming out" has caused depression, and sometimes suicide. They get bullied, and judged not because they are bad people theyre just different. These are people, and they are feared for no other reason than people are afraid of them.
Damon
So you were AGAINST the NC bill? Because that REMOVED the benefits and rights from civil unions. So naturally, according to this comment, you opposed that, right?
We could go into the separate but equal discussion... but let's just address your support of civil unions.
Oh... I guess you do NOT support equal rights under civil unions, seeing as how you support the NC bill. So now you are a liar.
Sorry, you are wrong. When the PEOPLE wanted slavery, we still got rid of it. When the PEOPLE were against inter-racial marriage... again, tough luck. When people were against integrating blacks in schools... well, you get the picture.
When you limit their rights to legal benefits... LIKE NC JUST DID... it is oppression.
Once again, you are telling a group of people that they are NOT ALLOWED to have the same legal benefits as you, because YOU don't agree with who they are.
And don't sit here and tell me again that you support the same legal benefits, because you just said that you support the NC bill and that removes the legal benefits.
Critical thinking? Really... you want to go there? Ok. First, there is NO WAY to ensure they will never have kids. Human biology dictates that they will have sexual urges, and human psychology confirms that they are likely to partake in these urges. THAT is critical thinking. Simply "saying" they won't shows a severe lack of critical thinking.
Second, if they get actually "fixed", then I have no personal issue with them. They live their life, I live mine, and they are not forcing a detrimental cost on society.
See... that is the difference between you and me. I don't give a flying f*** what people do in their bedrooms. In fact, I don't care what they do at all. You want to bang your sister, and you are both "fixed", knock yourself out. It's your life, not mine. I don't care. Hell, half the GOP constituents already do this. My opinion of them will not stop them from humping like rabbits at the next family reunion. I'm sure they will stop for a few hours when NASCAR comes on, but after that it's a free-for-all.
Non-biased... yes. Go for it. Show me non-biased stats that PROVE a detrimental affect.
Oh, that's right. It has ALREADY been proven to have NO NEGATIVE IMPACT... unless you are reading some religious, biased, hate-filled statistic made up by some supposed "Christian" organization. Of course, all those "statistics" have been proven false and misleading.
Now let me guess, you are going to try to bring up something like aids, right? Ya, if this was still 1980, you might have an argument. Not anymore. And if you try to talk about the "costs" of STDs, then we should discuss ALL "lifestyle choices" that result in medical costs. Care you share your weight with the class?
Seriously? That is your argument? Because you want to change the definition of marriage that will lead to allowing rape... or murder? Really? THAT is the best you can come up with.
One is a legal document that deals primarily with property rights and asset allocation between two parties... the other are crimes in which a victim is harmed by a perpetrator.
And you think changing the definition of a LEGAL DOCUMENT is the same as changing the definition of a crime that harms innocent parties?
Wow... I'm not sure you understand what the words "critical thinking" actually mean.
I was discussing the "right" that is being infringed on, not the definition of the law. You are twisting the conversation to make your point.
When you say they have the same "right" as you, they do not. Their "right" to the pursuit of happiness is being infringed on by a law... thus the law is unconstitutional. You have the "right" to pursue your happiness, LOVE... they do not. Thus, they do not have the same "right".
Now, they have the ability to pursue the same legal definition of marriage... but not the "right" in question.
And thus the crux of the debate: Do you have the right to make laws, based on your opinion of a group of people, that limits their rights to pursue happiness? Generally speaking, if that "pursuit of happiness" is detrimental to another person (harms them) or society, then you can make this law. If it is not detrimental, then it is simple oppression based on your opinion.
Ahhhhh... so you have such a strong emotional attachment to a law, that changing that law is affecting your personal boundaries. That is probably the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Tell me, were you this emotionally attached to DADT as well? What about slavery laws, were you attached to those? Inter-racial marriage laws? Oh... the old laws, still on the books, that make it illegal to perform certain sex acts in the privacy of your own home? Your emotions must be going crazy.
Every evil man in history felt what he was doing was "right". That's not an argument. Did you support Hitler? Well him, and the Nazis, felt what they were doing was "right". Did you support slave owners? Did you support those against inter-racial marriage? They all felt it was "right".
See, that is the issue... what is considered "right"? Your opinion? Old religious text that allows you to sell your daughter into slavery?
Or do you apply a litmus test: Does this activity harm another person, with measurable evidence? Does this activity harm society, with measurable evidence? Does this activity limit the rights of free individuals?
See, your bigoted opinion, based on hatred towards a certain group, does not make you right... even if you think you are right. Because your opinion limits the rights of individuals who are not harming anyone, or society. You are limiting their rights just because you don't like them.
If you can limit their rights, based on your opinion... why can't I? I don't like religious people, I find them hateful and evil. I find that they are the root of most problems. They should not be allowed to get married and spawn evil, hateful offspring. What? You don't agree? Who are you to say I am wrong? Why can't you accept my views? See, I can play your game too.
I don't see why they can't be just as miserable as the rest of us and complain about their husbands/wives!!
Joking before anyone gets their panties in more of a bunch than they already are. But I am glad that he took a position.
And I do love my husband dearly
Obama sat on the fence and didn't stand up for what he believed in so he tried to play the middle ground and not answer like a typical non-leader that he is. But, thanks to Biden gaffe #234 "outing" his beliefs, Obama had no choice but to step up and state his stance on "evolving" his opinion on gay marriage. Of course, the smackdown of the Wisconsin primaries and that complete joke of West Virginia voting for putting a JAILBIRD over Obama on the DEMOCRAT ticket really did it in for him (that was priceless).
Now that's change I can believe in! Welcome back America. Glad to see you've woken up.
Obama did not take the less popular side. With the exception of a few states like North Carolina, the majority of people appear to be either indifferent toward gay marriage or they support it. Sure, there are a lot of states out there that still ban gay marriage, but I bet that number would shrink quite a bit if left up to the people. I still think Obama jumped on the bandwagon just because it's an election year, and there's a good chance he will revert back to his original stance if elected. Without action, his words don't really mean much, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see. This might prove to be the biggest draw for swing votes out of anything else his campaign does.
The right (which is not) is about to start understanding a basic tenet of the Boy Who Cried Wolf. Their constant, high-volume and acidic hatred of anything and everything Obama has come to resemble the background noise in a factory. People who really don't have a dog in the race have attenuated their "hearing" to accommodate the fact that the GOP cannot and will not say anything whatsoever but with loud hatred and anger and paranoia about the president. Thus, when something like this goes down, what can they do, screech louder? It is almost impossible for them to do so! This is how a factory worker can hear the conversation on the phone, because they have learned to tune out much of the background noise.
Damon: You cannot any more re-define consent than you can re-define the sun and the moon. Your legal illiteracy, while stunning, is also proof of why direct democracy is a failure. Anywhere gay marriage has been put to the popular vote, it has boiled down to those who have some understanding of concepts of law versus those who act purely on emotion and anxiety and the establishment of religion in our system of law. That makes you no better than the dreaded advocates of Sharia Law, which is totally based on religion. While we may find some humor in your cliche about the "box," your thinking is clearly pressured by a religious agenda. That, sir, is even worse than p.c.
The "Gay Agenda." Hmm, that kinda sounds discriminatory. I don't approve of them lying, but they should have equal rights. I mean, if men and women today have the right to get married in a drunken faze in places like Las Vegas or be forced to get married in an arranged marriage, why can't two people who love each other get married barring their genders???? I mean, the definition of marriage itself has changed several times over the past few centuries. 200 years ago, you didn't marry a person who was in a different social class. 100 years ago, you couldn't get married to someone who wasn't your race. Marriage's definition has changed significantly over the gradual evolution of the human mind and of civilization itself. And one thing that perplexes me is that the Declaration of Independence states that "all men are created equal, and are endowed certain Unalienable rights, like the right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." And the Constitution (the law of the land) prohibits the government discriminating against minorities. So technically, the religious right is going against the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.
Personally, I think Obama always supported gay marriage. I just think that he didn't want to say it know, mainly because it could alienate swing states and socially conservative Independents. As an Obama supporter, I am willing to admit that. I can understand it. I wish he'd done it sooner, but now is as good a time as ever.
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
EQUALITY 2012
@DamonWV
"set of beliefs long before you and I were around"
There have been many "sets of beliefs" that different cultures adhered to since the dawn of humankind. Do we still recognize or legitimize most of them? No. Even if we are to confine the comment you made to more recent times, we must admit that the values espoused today have been subject to some alteration and modification to match the changes western civilization has and continues to endure.
Just because a particular belief or value has been around for a while or is otherwise thought of as traditional does NOT necessarily legitimize it. If your argument is based on "one man, one woman" for the sake of maintaining the perceived status quo, it is flawed.
I support the right of gays and lesbians (and turtles for that matter) to enjoy all the aspects of the farce called marriage. Marriage used to be a religious ceremony, sanctioned by the church (of your choice), but modern marriage is a farce regulated by government so they can get their "chunk of flesh" in the way of money for licenses and all sorts of other activities. Take how much of the "judicial" economy is driven by modern marriage.
I say let's let the gays and lesbians enjoy the bilss that comes along with marraige in modern society (if you detect a little sarcasm then you're sharp).
I am eager to see if reforms to divorce laws, that usually favor the female in the relationship, result from gay marriage. Who's going to get stuck with the "man" role in a divorce between two men? Two Women?
You may ascertain that I'm not gay, and you would be right. I don't have anything against gays, as long as they're not forcing their views down my throat, and I believe we should accept their request for equal rights where marriage is concerned (actually I am somewhat dismayed that this has anything to do with government).
Let's keep an eye on the "unhappy" endings and see what kind of pickle it presents our judicial processes........maybe this will help with divorce law reform.........
Indie....you need to give it up....you will never win against people that are too blind to see! Every one of your arguments are clear and concise, and show no predudice or bias in the critical thinking applied. The homophobes can argue all they want, but until they come up with a real (and not a Fox News or christian radical right) reason that gays should not be allowed to have the same EXACT freedoms that they enjoy, I will continue to vehemently disagree with their obviously flawed position...which in fact, states nothing except that they hate gays.
Note: Obama did not promise to do anything for the Gay Community. He called gay marriage a state issue - translation he isn't going to do a thing. Coincidentally, contributions from the Gay community were lagging severly - until this announcement today I'll bet.
in 2008, Obama parsed his words carefully to play the evangelical community. Today, seeing the huge defeat in North Carolina of the gay marriage movement, he is apparently throwing in the towel with the Evangelicals, to gain the gay communities support. A guess what, he doesn't have to give up much of the evangelical vote, because he put himself in a position that gay marriage is something that he can't do anything about anyhow.
Just a random fact to toss out there:
Same-sex marriage is legally recognized nationwide in Argentina, Belgium, Canada, Iceland, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, South Africa, Spain, and Sweden.
In the United States, same-sex marriages are not recognized federally, though same-sex couples can marry in six of the fifty states and one district.
In Mexico, same-sex marriages are only performed in Mexico City, but these marriages are recognized by all Mexican states and by the Mexican federal government.
Israel does not recognize same-sex marriages performed on its territory, but recognizes same-sex marriages performed in foreign jurisdictions.
In Brazil, the state of Alagoas performs same-sex marriages. Also, in other states, a same-sex couple may convert their civil union into marriage with the approval of a state judge. If approved, that marriage is recognized in all the national territories.
In the Netherlands' Caribbean special municipalities of Bonaire, Sint Eustatius and Saba, marriage is presently restricted to heterosexual couples,however a law enabling same-sex couples to marry has been passed and is planned to come into effect by 10 October 2012.
The Caribbean countries Aruba, Curaçao and Sint Maarten, forming the remainder of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, do not perform same-sex marriages, but must recognize those performed in the European territory of the Netherlands.
The Australian Capital Territory is the first jurisdiction in Australia to legalise civil partnerships ceremonies for gay couples. However, they are not recognised in Australian jurisdictions outside of that territory. Registered partnerships are available in New South Wales, Tasmania, Queensland and Victoria. From 1 July 2009 Centrelink recognised same-sex couples equally regarding social security – under the common-law marriage, de facto status or unregistered cohabitation. In September 2010 Tasmania became the first Australian state to recognise same-sex marriages performed in other jurisdictions.
In November 2008, Nepal's highest court issued final judgment on matters related to LGBT rights, which included approving gay marriage.
New Zealand's Marriage Act 1955 recognizes marriage rights only for opposite-sex couples. However the 2005 Civil Union Act allows same-sex and opposite sex couples to have a 'civil union' which under the law is identical to a marriage, with the exception that same-sex couples cannot jointly apply to adopt.
Civil union, civil partnership, domestic partnership, registered partnership, unregistered partnership, and unregistered cohabitation statuses offer varying legal benefits of marriage and are available to same-sex couples in: Andorra, Australia, Brazil, Colombia, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Ireland, Israel, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Slovenia, Switzerland, United Kingdom and Uruguay.
They are also available in parts of Mexico (Coahuila and Mexico City) and the United States (California, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, New Jersey, Nevada, Oregon, Rhode Island, Wisconsin, Washington and federal District of Columbia).In some countries with these legal recognitions, the actual benefits are minimal. Many people consider civil unions, even those that grant equal rights, inadequate because they create a separate status, and believe they should be replaced by gender-neutral marriage.
Dustin -
The Declaration of Independence is not 'merely a demand for independence.' it is a statement of ideals and values of the Nation soon to be.
Indie, I agree with everything you said in your last comment, minus the part where you said their "right" to the pursuit of happiness being infringed is unconstitutional. The Constitution says nothing about one's right to the pursuit of happiness, so therefore we actually have no such right. That line comes from the Declaration of Independence, and thus has no legal standing. The 14th Amendment should be applicable to the issue of gay marriage though. Section 1 of the 14th Amendment states:
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
That last part, the Equal Protection Clause, has been used by the Supreme Court as basis for decisions such as those that led to desegregation of schools and the illegality of discrimination based on sex. It makes no sense that those same rights are not extended to gays. Last time I checked, all of the gay people I know are just that.... PEOPLE.
Also, why a state would want to ban gay marriage is beyond me. Speaking from a purely financial point of view, with the fees collected for marriage licenses and court costs for subsequent divorces if things don't work out going to the local government or state, it just doesn't make sense to not allow it. That extra revenue could be a step, albeit maybe a small one, toward getting a state or city out of the red and back into the black or getting more funding for things like public services such as police and fire departments to make it a safer place to live.
How pathetic.
This is what passes for "progressive" or "leftist" politics these days, the politician comes out for gay marriage.
The campaigns and the media have to focus on "identity politics" stuff like this because otherwise the two candidates are so similar. Well at least what they do is similar if not what they say (Obama's current tactic to fool his progressive supporters is to talk like FDR and act like Herbert Hoover).
On any of the more traditional issues of governing: jobs, housing, healthcare, education, foreign policy etc the candidates of the two corporate backed parties are so close it's hard to convince people that they really have a choice.
Here's an article I found online that illustrates what I mean:
Obama's jobs program: A laundry list of corporate handouts
9 May 2012
On Tuesday, US President Barack Obama made his first speech on economic policy since the official start of his reelection campaign, calling on Congress to enact a list of corporate handouts in the name of "creating jobs."
Obama kicked off his proposals with a right-wing tribute to the profit system, repeating his mantra that "the true engine of job creation in this country is the private sector; it's not Washington."
The entire speech was built on the assertion that government spending is not a legitimate means of putting people to work. He even went as far as to boast that the period of his administration was "the only time that government employment has gone down during a recession."
The speech comes four days after the Labor Department announced that the US economy added only 115,000 jobs in April, significantly less than the amount needed to keep up with population growth.
The jobs report paints a bleak picture. The official unemployment rate fell, but only due to the fact that hundreds of thousands of workers left the labor force. There are 12.5 million people who are officially unemployed in the United States, 5.5 million more than there were five years ago. The average duration of unemployment is 39.1 weeks, more than double what it was in 2006.
Meanwhile, as a result of legislation signed by Obama earlier this year, hundreds of thousands of people are being thrown off unemployment rolls due to the expiration of extended federal benefits. In California alone, 93,000 workers will lose benefits on Saturday.
In this context, Obama's speech Tuesday bears the hallmarks of a political farce. He presented his proposals at the College of Nanoscale Science and Engineering at the State University of New York in Albany. If passed, the measures would do nothing to improve the lot of millions of unemployed in the United States.
Three of Obama's five proposals are simply tax handouts for businesses. One would create a ten percent income tax credit for companies that "create new jobs" in 2012, and the second would expand the current tax subsidy for "investments in clean energy manufacturing."
Under the guise of helping homeowners facing foreclosures, Obama is proposing to "cut red tape in the mortgage market," meaning further deregulation of the mortgage industry. This under conditions in which home prices continue to plummet, and hundreds of thousands of families are on the brink of foreclosure.
Only one of his proposals is not a hand-out to corporations. As such, it is predictably trivial: He called for a program that would put 20,000 military veterans to work on an environmental conservation program over five years and provide an "online training program" in "the fundamentals of small business ownership" for 10,000 veterans.
Obama also called for a government tax cut to corporations that "in-source" jobs to the United States. It would allow corporations to write off all of their costs for setting up production facilities in the US, plus provide a tax credit of 20 percent on investment in the country.
This is of a piece with Obama's entire economic program, which has aimed to drive down wages to the point where workers in the United States can be exploited more cheaply than those in countries such as China and Mexico…
…The ruling class has responded to the economic crisis with a ruthless and unprecedented attack on the social position of the working class. The Obama administration, working with the trade unions and their supporters, has been the spearhead of this attack.
Obama's speech is a quintessential expression of the sclerotic and unrepresentative nature of the American political system. Amid mass unemployment and growing poverty, both Romney and Obama sing the praises of the profit system and propose no policies that are not direct handouts to major corporations and the super-rich…
…Immediate measures must be taken to put people to work. This includes a multi-trillion dollar public works program to rebuild infrastructure and meet all the needs of a complex society.
The basic problem is the capitalist system itself. So long as the economy is run in the interests of private profit, and the financial elite exercises dictatorial control over economic and political life, the most basic rights of the working class, including the right to a job, cannot be addressed.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/may2012/pers-m09.shtml
@Ryan-3600925
I disagree that this is even a small step to helping government, just more bureaucracy and wasted money to support a process that shouldn't even exists! The government has no business in marraige, which was a religous based ceremony (and typcially between a man and a woman).
As I said earlier, I don't have a problem with gay folk, what they get their jollies from is between them and their significant other. But my bitch with marriage goes deeper than whether gays can "legally" engage; my beef is why the government and society even give a damn (about who marries who, what, or where). Why is this even a rights discussion at all?
I could give a rip about this topic. It's not going to change anything and it's not like he's going to ask congress for a federal bill.
What I find interesting is the words "FLIP-FLOPPER" don't seem to have any real clout today do they libs? So he was LYING for votes before and now he's truthful, or was he truthful before and now he's lying? Hmmm, doesn't seem like Mr. Flip flopper knows what he thinks does he?
Interesting how low ratings can make politicians change their mind or stop lying or start lying or whatever you want to call it. All hypocrites will be called out on their future stupidity statements.
@moondog99
I wasn't saying I agree with the government being involved in marriage. I was just stating that the way things are currently, and I doubt anything will change regarding the government's involvement in marriage, the extra revenue brought in could be beneficial. The reason I doubt the government will ever bow out of marriage is because there is money to be made from the fees required for licenses, divorce, etc.
I also agree that this shouldn't even be a debate. As worded, the 14th Amendment applies to all citizens of the United States whether they are white, black, gay, straight, etc. Had the legislators that wrote the amendment wanted to exclude a particular group from the protections afforded by it, that would have been included.
Got any proof to back yourself up??? Just because the status on the economy is important doesn't bar the president from speaking out on social issues.
Just because a guy didn't have a technically private sector job (unless lawyers are included) doesn't mean that he cannot attempt to explain the economy. There are economists out there who might not have had such a job. And the economy is better than it was when he took office (last time I checked positive job and economic growth is good); the problem is that demand is still low and Europe is still uneasy. Simply put, we need to create jobs, and since the private sector is still hesitant the government must spend more (but pay for it via tax increases, spending cuts, or both) in order to create jobs (government and private via contracts), which will have a multiplier effect on the economy and boost demand.
Last time I checked EVERY DAMN PRESIDENT has used a teleprompter for the past few decades. That includes your party's idol, Ronald Reagan. We actually have a great president; he fixed the economy, reformed healthcare, repealed DADT, improved our foreign image, killed bin Laden, massacred the al Qaeda chain of command, and offered common sense ideas on our economy and our deficit. Nice try at spinning the truth, though....
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
Convenient timing... Its amazing what people will do in the name of politics.
Excellent.
Mr. Obama has now thrown most of the African American voters under the bus. Just add these voters to:
Not too many voters left out there, Mr. Obama. No need for any "debates".
Wait a minute....there are SOME Liberals out there wanting to continue with those "Obama Bucks":
You are one and done.
President Obama will probably lose as many votes as he gains. This was a gutsy move on his part. I'm proud of him.
Once again we have a President vote pandering. He says he is for Gay marriage and then says it is up to the States. Which he is right, IT IS up to the States, not the President. But what does this also say?
1. He is not the Christian he claims he is.
2. He is willing to alienate Christians, Jews and Muslims.
3. He claims to be a Constitutional expert, yet is not willing to defend the very same document. As President that is his RESPONSIBILITY!
4. Is this the type of person you want to run this country? One who will fall off whatever side of the fence that will keep the money rolling his way? That doesn't show much in the say of personal convictions. We need a President who is strong in what he believes in.
5. He is more willing to support the "faux" rights of a very small portion of the population, yet will not support ALL Americans in other REAL issues this country is facing.
Sorry Mr President, you really, really screwed up this time........
NOBAMA 2012
I doubt that the president lost very many votes by doing this.
Those people probably would not have voted for him anyway.
Now the right wingers can say: "See? We told you he was the devil incarnate!"
I do get a kick out of those who are so outraged and insist that marriage between a man and a woman is so sacred.
Divorce, broken homes, tv shows that are dedicated to finding out "Who the baby (trashy) daddy" is, domestic violence, etc. sound real sacred to me.
At the time of writing it , I was unaware that it did remove civil union rights. Im still pro marriage one man one woman, and still for their rights to have civil unions to get the rights they need.
Still once again trying to compare slavery, an injustice used directly against a certain group of people is nothing in comparison to People standing behind one man one woman marriage. In your mind you may think its the same because you keep thinking its oppression of people. Slaves didnt have rights, or equality, then over time they did, now they are equal. Now lets look to Gays. What would make it oppression to them is that they would not be allowed to marry at all to no one they have to remain single. Now that is oppression, but because they do indeed have the right to marry someone of the opposite sex ( even though its not their preference ) they can do so . Many , once gays, have made the choice to turn from the lifestyle, marry opposite sex and have kids, family , and now enjoy their life. There are many organization that are full of ex gays who have done such. So a gay person, does indeed have equal rights has me.
As i said above, i was unaware of the time, that their civil union rights would be taken away. When i say rights, im talking about rights as if 2 people are married, for legal issues, not right as to be married.
I do want them to have same legal benefits, and stop saying because I dont agree with who they are. I could care less what they do, and who they are, what I do care about is being pro marriage, one man one woman. The beginning of a family structure that will have their own kids, and every role is played, Father, Mother, kids. Want to take a look at family structures and compare suicide rates, issues in the homes, issues with the kids, issues with the marriage of your typical man, mother, kid family, vs a Man man , kid, or mother mother kid family, vs single parent kid family.
So that is your reasoning for people getting married is if they are a detrimental cost on society ? Thats it ? They are going to have to be required to get fixed to get married ? Is that your stipulation for them for you to agree to it ? Can i have my stipulation to of gays can have civil unions for legal purposes, but you cant have the title married. Of those two scenarios which one seems to be a bit more infringing on someone. A title, or having your body altered to it cant have kids ?
Appearntly you care some what, because your worried about it being a detrimental cost effect on you unless their fixed, now your oppressing people. I dont care what gays do myself, but when they come out of the closet , shouting to america, HEY im GAY !! like you see in some many articles of stars coming out saying their gay, WHO CARES ? Do you see me running down the road shouting im heterosexual !! They seem to make it look like some agenda, or reality show sensationalism , lets get a reaction out of the public. My god, can you imagine if someone hetero shouting out , Hey im straight , and I am proud to be that way, what would society think ? This guy must be some homophobe, why does he need to announce to the world hes hetero ? and yet gays do it all the time.. Blacks shout black is beautiful, Black power, its ok, whites shout , white is beautiful, white power, its racism. We have a black history month, what would happen if we had a white history month ? Think those bigots al shaprton and jesse jackson might cry bloody racism murder. Can you see the point ?
Now I see some of your color of hatred and bias showing through when your bashing GOP and saying they do this. I have no political affiliation, never voted, because there has been no one worthy of my vote. Since your attack seems to be against repubs, i have to assume your on the left side. Which i find that funny that your going to talk about money and costs of a lifestyle of close relations, and how much unnecessary spending democrats love to do. Money for everyone, spend spend, more debt..
I wasnt referring to aids at all. I am well aware of the hiv epidemic, I am a victim of it myself, but I do remember the 80s and at that time era, it was at first thought to be the gay disease. We know its not of course, but it was spread easily among gays because of the rectal tearing from anal sex, and it is easier to transmit from male to male. As for the lifestyles being detrimental in many ways, I will have to dig all that up again, its been a while since i read the articles from , I think its was the family center, or some organization that keeps track of statistics of families, structures, outcomes of them. As for non bias ? There is no such thing. Everyone has a bias, because everyone has a set point of views. Just like some science debates I get in between 2 different kinds of scientists, each one of them have different views, and they start with presumptions and bias but thats a different topic and story.
IM out of time in this session, but one thing i can quickly comment on , is your reference to biblical slavery, selling daugther, please dont use slavery on the bible and try to compare it to civil slavery of america, they are not even on the same planet. And if you wish to press that issue, I will go into a very detailed reply .
willowbrook, who are you to say who is or is not a Christian?
Tina - I disagree with your opinion. This flip-flop of belief or lie for votes by Mr Obama will resonate among voters in the Democrat and Republican parties and among independent voters. Regardles of party, many American's believe in equal rights and civil unions, yet cannot support same-sex "marriages".
Hey Right, FLIP FLOPPER is Mitts name, Whats up with all the bold caps today ? ("Jealous")
Tina - it boils down to whether one follows Bible rule or not. Supporting Gay Marriage does not follow the Bible, Torah or the Koran. Many people "say" they are Christian, Jew or Muslim, but pick and choose what they practice/believe from their respective book. Technically, it is against Religion to kill someone, but so many forget about that too.....
Legal marriage would give everyone the same rights- to make medical decisions for sick loved ones, to add a spouse to a medical insurance policy, etc, etc. Churches cannot be forced to marry anyone. They set their own requirements. I had a Catholic wedding, and to have one of those, at least one of the couple has to be a practicing Catholic, the other must be at least baptized Christian, the couple must agree to raise the children as Catholic, several meetings with the priest are required, and you must attend a pre-marital workshop. The only places you can just show up with a license and say 'marry us' are the courthouse and Las Vegas.
Patriotic
Nice try but scroll up a bit and I think you'll find there's not a single bold font in my post. Also, bold and caps are used for emphasis. When one uses them for everything one writes they come off looking like a screaming freak who somehow really, really wants attention. Let's see, is there anyone on the vine that resembles that? Oh yeah I see one...it's you mizzzz inferiority complex...YOU! You've been in the wings since I called you out on it just anxiously awaiting for me to put something in bold. Now you jump on it and you're totally wrong because it's just your own delusion. I'll bet you were just silly with pride after you posted too, awe, I'm sorry to have to smack you down like that....no I'm not it's kind of fun.
This is what you call a harsh back-hand in a debate. I know it must sting a little but I'm sure you're used to it. Patriotic you honestly look like an idiot with your constant bold font. I know because you're far left that you refuse to take any advice but being a good person I'll offer it up again. Use bold when appropriate and what you wright might be taken more seriously. I won't even give you a "nice try" because THAT was a really lame attempt. But you keep trying sister, I think I can, I think I can, I think I can....
"Flip flopper" is actually John Kerry's name and the libs jumped on the chance to use it. It's an asinine thing to say about anybody because without changing a mind we don't progress, you know how that is right? When it was used against Kerry it was ignorant and the fact that you guys here on the vine use it on Romney is totally ignorant as well. So to play in the same game I decided to see how many libs would relate it to barack because it's the SAME EXACT THING. I could've guessed you'd defend it.
Hypocrisy runs wild in politics and you just proved my point. The next time you have an urge to type something about bold font or "flip flopping", you should really resist at all costs. (embarrassed? You certainly should be.)
Whether you like it or not, homosexuality has been around as long as hetrosexuality and it was only in the last 6,000 years during the rise and evolution of today's orgainized religions was it officially rejected as a sin and made illegal in various cultures. It was in the last 40 or so years that homosexuality has become accepted in many countries and cultures that is why you see them more and more, not because it suddenly became a trendy choice or an infliction that can be cured and eraticated. Those who reject homosexuality and homosexuals most are largly from another generation, religious and set in their ways followed by racists and anti-semites that, whether they are open or closed about their biggoted beliefs, make up a large part of the Republican/GOP party.
Me:
Mario 69:
So you're saying that things that are "moral" are good, and things that are "immoral" are bad? OK, since I was asking how homosexuality is bad, and your answer was "it's bad," I can only conclude that you are unable to articulate any harm done by it, and that therefore, by your own (circular, non-)definition, that homosexuality is good. That doesn't affect my life (I'm straight), but it's good to know in case one of my kids turns out to be gay. Thanks for confirming what I already suspected.
The major religions of the world teach that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained by God. There are many places in the Bible, beginning with Adam and Eve that refer to “man and wife.” However, keep in mind that the Bible was written by many people (human scholars and transcribers) from stories handed down by word of mouth over thousands of years. To say that God wrote it is untrue.
The Declaration of Independence tells us that “all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator* with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” One may define the “Creator” as God. Others view the “creator” as the the natural order of the universe.
Though no longer practiced by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, in the 19th century polygamy was taught by leaders of the church for more than half of the 19th century and practiced publicly from 1852 to 1890.
The point of all of this is that marriage is a man-made law and man made laws are subject to change.
"When we deprive the equal rights of one, we threaten
the equal rights of everyone. An injustice anywhere should
be an injustice everywhere" - Dr Martin Luther King, Jr
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012!!!
Lol. You are right. In fact i want to point out that MANY states have taken this topic to the polls. And guess what? IT GOT VOTED AGAINST. Including California. The most gay friendly and liberal state could NOT even get the voters to pass gay marriage.
But hey...keep on believing that OVER HALF the country supports gay marriage. The truth is HALF the country doesn't CARE ANYMORE. That doesn't mean they "support" it.
Then let the so-called "stability and purpose of marriage" break down. Let fire and brimstone pour down from the heavens and engulf our nation and all the other nations that approve gay marriage. And to all those anti-gay marriage Bible-lovers out there, I believe somewhere in there it is said "Let he without sin be the first to cast a stone." Then there's "Judge not, lest ye be judged first." And always, there is the fact that Jesus told us to be respectful of all people and their rights??? Indie was right. You people keep nitpicking what you like; God wouldn't like that.
Hahahaha. Very funny. You do realize that the majority of Catholics (including myself) are pro-gay marriage, don't you??? You do know that seniors would gladly vote against a party that wants to take away their Medicare, right??? You do realize that Independents still lean toward Obama, especially after we were introduced to the "Severely Conservative" Mitt Romney, that conservatives NEVER would have voted for Obama, that Latinos are still alienated by the redder than blood Republicans, that Obama isn't a tax and spend guy (as he hasn't spent that much money if you subtract the cost of the recession, and since he hasn't raised taxes, unfortunately), that small business owners do appreciate his tax credits and the increased business from the economic recovery, and I'll bet that the taxpayers would rather have a slow and gradual recovery than somebody whose about to throw away our entire economy and fiscal integrity (along with numerous safety nets and domestic programs) for the Ryan plan and a whole new wave of tax cuts that will only benefit the wealthy, am I correct??? Enough with the stereotypes; seek the truth, my misguided right-wing radical friend, for the truth shall set you free....
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
What is the big deal about "gay marriage" anyway ? What people do under their own roof is their business IMO.
The problem most people have about Obama's statement is the simple fact that he is leading from the rear again.
woah woah, slow down there :D You better make sure you know for sure how the bible came to be from historical facts instead of internet comment threads of people making out of the air statements like that.
thalia-5886697
You dont think they bring a lot of that on themselves ? Why do they need to announce it to the world they are gay ? Do you see hetero's shouting out of their doors that their straight and proud of it ? So give me a good reason why a gay person needs to make the headlines ? Maybe their looking for a date. If they would keep their lifestyle to themselves then they wouldnt have to worry about the pressures from others.
Funny thing...yes it is. Funnier thing...what the hell does your statement have to do with what I or anyone else said??
Alrighta Ida!!!!!!
This shouldn't even be an issue ...Amazing how the Republicans want more control with this issue.
Unfortunately the x-treme right has made it an issue.
Because their only for small government when it suits them.
They love social control, enforcement of the police state, hell if they could get away with it, they would make sure all gays and lesbians wear striped suits with gold stars on em'.
Stick a fork in this guy....unless he promises to pay for their weddings...and receptions. There has got to be a new freebie in there somewhere.
Oh that outfit just sounds fabulous.
I applaud this decision by Obama. I always thought this was his true position, but he's taking a political risk with this formal announcement.
ITS ABOUT TIME!!!!!! Big step towards equal rights. Nice to finally have a president that is not a coward and can come out and support something that should be fair for all US citizens. If you bible wingers don't like it, go move to Iraq where it is ok to not live in a civilized society based on religion.
OBAMA 2012
And the internal evolution (polling) has been done. The wind is blowing in this direction, so......
Gadz, what a way to run a country?
Anything for votes eh! He just saying what (gay) people wanna hear ... I don't trust this man ....
"Oh that outfit just sounds fabulous"
And the right speaks
Dang, now Romney really does need to learn Spanish to get the Hispanic vote. Maybe Mitt will promise to cut holes in the Texas border fence to get back to even with Obama's timely announcement.....
SO much negative cynical views to a good news story. Quit being so darn negative and think regardless of the motives you imagine that this will mean the USA may finally become a country of equals. Be happy with hat.
This man is you leader and regardless of whether you voted for him or not you should respect the office and the man.
And speaking of smaller government, Mr. President, while I applaud your support for marriage equality, can we also end the completely insane War on Drugs? Based on the unsupportable notion that it is a good idea for the government to be in the business of telling competent adults what they may ingest into their own bodies, this war has cost many thousands of lives and many billions of dollars in an utterly hopeless cause. Time to start evolving there too, sir.
Well done Mr. President!!!
@the bigpicture - What rights are you refering too? Because last time I check absolutely no Civil Rights are stepped on by defining marriage as ONE MAN ONE WOMAN. As a matter of fact there have been legal challenges that failed when it comes to that definition. So what Civil Rights are being infringed upon please. Second all this did is seal the deal, and declare the definition of his exit from the Office of the President. For pete sake there are Democrats that don't agree with what he just declared, Democrats that voted for the Laws and Amendments that are in place in over half the states. This is no monumental feet that will help him to achieve anything more than an exit from the white house.
Blonde, How can you trust the biggest flip-flopper - waffler or whatever he should be dubbed as?
So my comment doesn't get collapsed, I will not suggest you must be confused as to the true flipper is...but it's the one who is sooo anxious to become president & who will put into policy a direction that would continue where GWB left off..It will crush the country and elevate the very very few.
For all of you bitching about the Bible...
We have someting here in America called the "Bill of Rights"
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
read em' and weep a$$holes
Tod and blond, you did read that NC banned gay marriage yesterday, no? You do realize that 30 states have some sort of constitutional provisions banning same-sex marriage, no? The wind is blowing what way?
It took some guts for President Obama to announce this. On the other hand, Romney is picking the politically easy way out: deny Americans their constitutional rights. Rightwinguts love that kind of thing.
BlondeSmartChick,
You need to change your name, you're not to smart.....President Obama has been on the side of the gay community for his entire time in office...getting rid of don't ask don't tell, supporting civil unions, and passed hate crime legislation, for the President to take this step is not surprising to most who are SMART..
To not trust a man who believes in human rights for all, also says something about YOU!
If obama or any person for that matter takes any stance its either white black or grey...
hes supporting same sex marriage, then he wants the liberal votes
but if he doesnt, its the conservative votes...
get the logic? your bitching and pathetic sense of logic is dull and boring..
and you guys acclaim yourself for being bible eating monsters...
(pretty sure jesus would be a liberal...rich? sick? yeah....go right wing>.>....)
President Obama is a GREAT President for Endorsing Gay Marriage---He will win the 2012 Election.
Cool guy, and a great Communicator.
One way to get more votes..and of course all know ALL politicians lie..so no harm done!
There is no surprise here. This is not flip-flopping. President Obama has supported the gay rights movement for some time. It is no accident that VP Biden spoke out for gay rights, followed by the Secretary of Education, Arnie Duncan.
Actually it took courage to speak out for another minority group. Well played Mr. President, Well played.
Why today??? Why not on NBC????
Civil unions, marriages...all semantics. I really do not see this as a new position for the president. In fact, to me, the biggest point that he made is that he believed it shouldn't be federalized and left up to the individual states. In my opinion, churches marry people. Any other couple married by JOP, captain on a ship, etc, should be defined a civil union, it's the same thing from a legal stand point.
He's bought the gay vote... Next promise ready to break?
American socialist and Jimsepa
Did you know that one could marry their cousin in NC? Nice heh!
PS..I'm on board w-you.
This so wrong!!! Gay marriage is a sin and those who agree with it will b punish by God on judgement day so I totally disagree with President Obama....God will b the judge and jury!!!
I knew he would take this path.
1. He his-self had a homosexual fling (Google it)
2. He is not a christian. He is Muslim and does not believe in the holy scriptures
3. He needed leverage for his run for re-election (Not going to transpire)
4. Members of his staff are gay
So yeah it was a pretty good guess he would go this route.
Obviously John-2032532 you have no clue about history because if you did you would know that that outfit is anything but fabulous. If you if fact know what American Socialist was referencing then you truly are a disgusting person for making such a comment
President Obama is in full politician mode. He knows his rating is down and therefore is doing what all politicians, who are desperate to save their position, do. He thinks gays are going to pull him out, and I think that may be his undoing. Gays have not, as of yet, presented a compelling state interest in allowing federal recognition of gay marriage. What do they do for the state by being homosexual? North Carolina voters made it clear, not only do they not want same-sex marriage, they voted an ammendment to ban it. Gays keep reinventing the same trival propaganda on the issue of homosexuality. It has never been scientifically proven as inate or natural, and likely never will be. Homosexuality is a sexually deviant lifestyle, that has been portrayed as anything other than what it really is. People do realize that pedophilia is also a sexual orientation, and that pedophiles are also trying to get pedophilia removed from the list of mental disorders, right?
a personal opinion is just that .. a personal opinion ... you can agree or disagree that is what a democracy is .. In a democracy every individual gets to have an opinion .. the right wing of the GOP/TP believe their opinion and only their opinion is worthy ... the GOP/TP believe their ideology and opinion ...must be forced on everyone else .. that view does not make for a democracy ... it makes for a Fascist government where only one opinion counts .. Someone once said " I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it with my life . I may not agree with gay marriage but I will defend the right of every one to love who they want .. free of government restrictions
Unbelievable! Just another day in the continual decline of this country, and the ongoing embarrassment of the so-called leaders of our government. Just once, I'd like to see an elected president who could truly represent the majority of it's citizens, instead of cowaring to those (the minority) with the biggest mouths.
@Netmanxps
1. He his-self had a homosexual fling (Google it)
I could find no credible source for your claim. Irrelevant garbage.
2. He is not a christian. He is Muslim and does not believe in the holy scriptures
Alright, this is the point where I walk away from your argument with this:
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
No one really gives a tinker's damn what her majesty the empress says. This hermaphrodite in the white house is a pathetic piece of s**t. He continually goes to the lowest common denominator to gain votes, he continually disdains and condescends to the majority of Americans that hold to traditional values. He attempts to impress a self-anointed "elite" of left-wings dip @!$%#s that are neither sophisticated, intelligent, nor particularly useful except for comic relief.
The four stages of destruction for a nation or people: Demoralization, Destabilization, Revolution, Normalization. We have come stages 2 and three. It takes 20 years to brainwash generation--we've had Marxist-Leninist inculcation at all levels of education for at least three generations. Revolution is just around the corner--it will be a combination race war and those that hold traditional American values and our country dear vs, the useful idiots of occupy, union goons, professional agents provocateur, and those that finance these movements (George Soros, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Iran, in some cases our own government.)
Netmanxps, you are all kinds of crazy.
He's muslim... Really?!? Why don't you ask for his birth certificate while you are at it? Let me guess, you were part of that crowd too.
Congrats.
Uh Netmanxps.......................google may be your friend but it does not always speak the truth.
This is only a ploy to gain votes people. He is a muslim and definitely does not truely believe this. Don't be fooled. This is called politicing! This is why people vote someone into office only to realize they lied or didn't really mean what they said. Happens all the time. Just like Obama said if he doesn't bring this country out of the recession if elected president then he doesn't deserved to be re elected. He didn't really mean it lol. We are 5% deeper into the recession now and he is still running again. My vote is not determined by any political party, but solely on the honesty and integrity of the individual. Get the facts then stand behind your man.
Amy, I think you're giving John too much benefit of the doubt. He knows exactly what outfit that's being referred to. Your 2nd point is the accurate one.
The nutjob above dNetmanxps doesn't know what he is talking about. He is not gay but what difference would that make. He is a Christian. The church he went to, my church, UCC, is an open and affirming church. He is not Muslim and never was. But what difference should that make. And if he has gay members on his staff, I commend him and he will get elected because to elect that "do anything, say anything candidate Romney" is to return to the policies of Bush who put us in the place we were when President Obama took office, is total stupidity.
I dont know what is worse, the hate towards people who disagree with them or the fact that gay marriage is somehow the deciding factor about who you will vote for for president. Seriously, to each their own - but that is just scary - that gay marriage is the driving factor for your vote. With all the crap going on in the world - wars, economy in the crapper, unemployment, debt - if gay marriage is THE thing for you, i guess you have about as blessed a life as anyone alive can ask for.
But comparing the GOP to nazis is simply wonderful?
He needs to recognize all the polygamist and all the other special interest groups or he'll go down in history as a racial discrimination gay rights advocate without regard to any others.
I feel that we should take a lessson from history not to long ago a white person could not marry a black person people of different religions were shunned by there familys if to people want a civil marriage should be able to
the nerve of sum ppl..being gay is wrong and had God wanted women to marry women and men to marry men then he would have made it to be that way and to the person who said if we dont like it go sumwhere else....well my message to u is Im a American and belong here and Im not going no where but mayb they need to make a special place jus 4 gay ppl cus y'all aint welcum here so get going plz cus Im so sick of this topic....Being Gay is a sin damnit!!!!!
I always seem to forget that you should always believe everything you read on the 'intuhrnett.'
It's 2012. Women can own land (gasp!), interracial marriages occur all the time (gasp again!), and people are gay. It's time we continue to evolve as a country. Everyone who is saying that the bible says it is "wrong" is living in the wrong decade, and are mistaking organized religion for federal policy.
He's always been for gay marriage but never openly said so in exactly so many words. It's not easy coming out... LOL. Obama FOR THE WIN! 4 more years.
He's got the gay vote
He's got the minority vote
He's got the ladies' vote... even if they lie about who they are voting for to avoid conflicts
He's got the vote of the poor people
He's got the vote of the immigrants
So that leaves Romney with the white supremists' vote, the crazy old codger vote (aka Rush Limbaugh vote), the filthy rich vote, and the vote of the doormat women who can't think for themselves and do whatever they are told.
You go! Barrack... 4 more years to undo what those ignorant haters did to ruin our country. I love ya man!
To those of you who say he is not flip-flopping, you are correct. He didn't flip-flop, instead he finally quit sitting on top of the fence post. Of course, he fell off on exactly the side that everyone knew he would. After all, it is all about votes for him, nothing more and nothing less.
As for this comment...
The right just wants to maintain at least some moral fabric in society, as opposed to "anything goes". That has nothing to do with "social control" or a "police state". Those things are better left to you socialists.
As for the suits, I'm thinking pink polka-dots would be much more appropriate than gold stars!
Much like your ignorant hermaphrodite comment, correct?
You sprinted to the bottom of the evolutionary ladder with your childish post.
Congratulations!
You're so full of hate, I would be surprised if you ever have a mature response to anything. When you entire post is name calling and lies, don't be surprised if you are mocked, laughed at or ignored.
You earned it.
Whether you think it's a political move or not doesnt really matter. The fact is that this country was built on the idea of no more oppression. And the LGBT community has been oppressed for too long. How many more suicides and hate crimes to people and families have to endure before this country wakes up and realizes that we have FREEDOM. Especially freedom of religion. We say we dont have a national religion and thats bs. The government is pushing christian values and laws on all of it's people when last time i checked that is a violation of the constitution. So if you have your own personal opinion about this fine, teach your children what you believe, dont try to force it on America. Other countries think were crazy for having debated this issue for so long, the fact is it shouldnt be an issue. The government has no right to tell someone how or who to love, nor do they have the right to put bans on a PERSONAL DECISION such as marriage. How awful it would be for a gay or lesbian service person to not be able to provide for their spouse like heterosexual couples can. Shame on those people that think they have a right to tell others how to live their lives, like their more righteous or better becuase they are heterosexual couples. Jesus would be ashamed of how you treat these people, he wouldnt be democratic or republican, he would love because that's all he knew how to do, and thats what he tried to teach his people. Good job Mr. President, whether it was a political move or not it still took guts and its about time.
Any other Doctor Who fans laughing with me at the irony of Captain Jack's comments and his chosen screen name?
Welcome to the 21st Century, Mr President! Your stand will go down in history.
People that believe the President Obama is a Muslim are funny. Like in a ridiculous sort of way. Google it...that cracks me up. It might be stereotypical, but in my mind I can't help but think they mostly all of them look like Netmanxps. I've never seen the Muslim claim used to explain a pro-gay rights stance before, though. That one is new. Not quite as funny. More of a headscratcher.
people should be able to do what they want to.!!! but this is a political move on his part. he isnt sincere.!! none of the politicans are.!! you really think they care. he wants your vote.
Everything this man has done/said has been with his re-election in mind. He has just used the G&L platform to gain more votes. He is nothing if not calculated. If I were in the G&L community, I would be pretty pissed right now that he was using my rights as a catalyst to get himself re-elected. That's all it is. how else can you explain that he's waited until now to make it official.
My wife and I were married by a justice of the peace...we both say to you ... "bite me"! ...and the preacher you rode in on!
None of the governments business.. Its a religious function.. Gays agreed with liberty when he wouldnt support your efforts.. now?
But at least we now know his personal views on life is not very Abrahamic.. Bye bye to the much larger Christian vote.. Thanks for continuing to make this election easy for us Mr. Obama.... RP2012 to get the government out of our lives.
I would vote for Obama even if he was a gay Muslim socialist! In fact, I wish he was a gay Muslim socialist!
Haters gonna hate.
If Obama said he liked your smile you'd blow your face off just to teach him a lesson. (paraphrase Bill Maher)
Oh how I wish Obama would say how much he loves the smiles of all these hateful Repubs.
How so? By using Christianity as the baseline for what should be?
Or trying to legalise rape to deter abortions?
Exactly how is the right preserving morality? Morality is subjective on an individual basis.
I think it will hurt him with very traditional African Americans. Here in Maryland, numerous black churches and their members are opposed to the same sex marriage push. Also, he gets to evolve where others are called flip floppers.
The government shouldn't even have a say in this issue, just like pretty much every social issue out there. But we will waste plenty of time and tax payer dollars dealing with it. Ron Paul 2012.
Did ya notice he also said it was a States Rights issue.....so he may have personally changed his views on it....he's dodging Federal intervention to do anything about it....He can be disappointed all he wants in the 61%-39% North Carolina Constitutional Amendment vote.....
What will Rev. Wright say ??...or how about Calypso Louie Farrakhan...The Nation of Islam will not be pleased ....
This just proves he is not a Christian. There is now no more doubt in my mind. He completely disregards the bible and the teachings of Jesus. Well, I hope he enjoys the limelight while he can.
What part of his self respect will he sacrifice next in order to get the vote. It just shows you that when faced with a lot of pressure, this President will just cave in. What does that say about his leadership ability? Religion will not play a major role in the election. However, if the candidates are close enough in policies, this is just one more thing that will push them over.
Obama has shown by failure in his policies whom we should vote for. I will not be voting for any president if they support gay marriage or not. I will have however, think VERY clearly what kind of President we are electing that would lead us in the direction we want to go.
Obama is not the President, I would pick out. He has lied in the past and will again in the future. Just you wait!
ANYONE ELSE BUT OBAMA ........ 2012
Somebody who can actually grasp the obvious. Thank you. Maybe Obama's internal focus group polling finally told him it was OK to endorse gay marriage, helping him with his base, while not hurting swing voters.
Why is this even an issue? A high percentage of people don't ever get married and a high percentage of people don't stay married. This is another way to take the attention of the news media away from the real issues. If one supports freedom one supports peoples right to live as they wish, period. This is political grandstanding from someone who doesn't want his record evaluated.
The Bible has, in total, about 600 commandments scattered through it, 99% of which are very specific to Middle-Eastern farming and fishing life (not mixing crops, letting land lay fallow, leaving crops for the poor, not eating shellfish and cloven foot animals, etc...). Even the main 10 Commandments are mainly relevant to an agrarian, late Iron Age Middle Eastern society.
None of the other thousands of human societies get a mention in the Bible (Sub-Saharan Africa, India, China, North and South America, or Australia/Indoneasian Archipelago) For a God that supposedly made the whole thing, and created all of the humans in his image, this Judeo-Christian God certainaly seemed obsessed with just a small population (about 1% of the earth at the time of the Bible) of his people. He seemed content allowing a lot of his people to not have the opportunity to know" him and enter heaven by only revealing himself to this small population. He even allowed them to flourish under "pagan" worship for thousands of years before he came to this earth as Jesus.
Did God make the Jews, or did the Jews make God?
Let me guess, you are either living in a trailer somewhere in the south, or are very old.
Desperate.
I could not be more proud of our President. I cannot see this as a safe political move, but it was the right move, a profile in courage move.
JS23, you and your ilk will continue to wallow in your bigotry and ignorance. Your IQ is on the left brim of the bell-shaped curve while your dogma is on the far right. ding-dong, ding-dong. "Evil will perforce destroy itself." The times, they are a changing.
Obama has just shown his desperation. He has no other policies to deal with the economy, etc, so the best time to raise his approval is to say this.
WE WILL NOT BE FOOLED AGAIN MR. PRESIDENT!
You don't need to be desperate to do the right thing, MRZ.
You would be surprised at the similarities between Muslim and Christian sciptures. Muslims believe homosexuality is more of a sin than Christians do and they cite sodam and Gomorra just like Christians do. In some muslim countries homosexuality is punishable by death. I fear this is where the US is headed if we let it.
@Ol_Doc #2.54...that's the great thing about this country...everyone is entitled to their opinion. But, for the record, I am not a religious zealot for my opinion. To me, it's just semantics. Just as much as I respect the 30 states who voted against same sex marriage, I respect the 6 states that have. To me, it isn't a federal issue.
Unhappy, you write, "Religion will not play a major role in the election...."
You might be the most delusional of the rightwingnuts, and that's saying a lot. If you think religion won't play a role, then why did you post: "This just proves he is not a Christian. There is now no more doubt in my mind. He completely disregards the bible and the teachings of Jesus."
Really, though, never mind answering. I don't want to hear your anti-christ-like remarks. Please, go back and try and understand the teachings (meaning) of Jesus.
But it is BOTH a federal and a state issue because of the 1400+ laws that are related to the word "marriage" and the "benefits" "guaranteed" by those laws (both federal and state laws). There is only one solution to the issue, and that should have been the president's position...amend all 1400+ laws to read "civil union" instead of "marriage" because in reality, that is just what that license you get from the state is...it is a civil union license.
States rights? Did we allow some states to opt in/out of racial equality mandates? Can you imagine how badly that would have gone?
This will eventually be decided at the federal level. Today's announcement is another step towards the inevitable. Yesterday's vote in NC will at some point be viewed as embarrassing. Not the first time for the South.
Check the facts: This is what happens when atheists don't read the bible.
Why did God pick the Jews? Simple. They were the ones that obeyed him.
Before New Testament times the only way to God was through Judaism. God however, didn't object to Gentiles worship him. Ever hear of the " Court of the Gentiles". The "Court of the Gentiles" was originally intended for those non-Jews who wanted to worship God. It was as close as they could get to the Temple.
When Jesus chased the money changers and other concessions away, he was clearing the "Court of the Gentiles". As He drove them out He used partial quotes from Isaiah 56:7 which says “My house will be a house of prayer for all nations” .
So the Chinese disobeyed God, Unhappy?
Jimsepa: Religion will not play a major role in the the election, because people were tired of Obama's policies even before he spoke out about this. Let's not forget that!
Second, Obama wanted people to think he was a christian. That was obvious. He was seen reading from the bible during the 10th anniversary of the World Trade Center bombing.
Third, you people are blind to think he's not using this to buy votes. It's called Flip-Flopping. This is one thing he can't blame on the former President.
@Netmanxps and the rest talking about Obama's religion. Romney is a Mormon not a Christian they believe you Jesus was mere flesh and blood. Like you or I. Look up the belief systems and teachings of the Mormons.
At least Obama claims to be a christian. And no he is not a Muslim @Netmanxps spins and lies only get so far. Here is a fact about Romney and the Mormon church An unpaid position, Romney's local church leadership often took 30 or more hours a week of his time.He generally refrained from overnight business travel owing to his responsibilities.
He places his Religion over his Other responsibilities. using the Bible and the Book of Mormon to guide the congregation, and also did home teaching
Leader Herbert C. Kimball he said "You are sent out as shepherds to gather sheep together; and remember that they are not your sheep ... do not make selections before they are brought home and put into the fold."
Mormonism and Islam have been compared to one another ever since the earliest origins of the former in the nineteenth century, often by detractors of one religion or the other—or both.[1] For instance, Joseph Smith, Jr., the founding prophet of Mormonism, was referred to as "the modern Mahomet" by the New York Herald,[2] shortly after his murder in June 1844. This epithet repeated a comparison that had been made from Smith's earliest career,[3] one that was not intended at the time to be complimentary. Comparison of the Mormon and Muslim prophets still occurs today, sometimes for derogatory or polemical reasons[4] but also for more scholarly (and neutral) purposes.[5] While Mormonism and Islam certainly have many similarities, there are also significant, fundamental differences between the two religions. Mormon–Muslim relations have been historically cordial,[6] seldom involving Islamophobia or Anti-Mormonism; recent years have seen increasing dialogue between adherents of the two faiths, and cooperation in charitable endeavors, especially in the Middle and Far East.[7]
Unhappy - I have read the Bible, many times growing up, and in school (Roman Catholic through college). The main thing I took away from the Jesuits that taught me was to obey your own conscience, as long as that conscience is informed.
The main issue I have with taking any quotes from the Bible is the slipperly slope of Litteralism. And that is the foundational reasoing behind the latest movement in North Carolina, that the bible says men who lay with other men are abominations. If this is taken futher, then we have many "sinners" among us, and we might have new laws passed in State house or ammendments to more Constitutions to add.
Those who eat lobster, clams, oysters, shrimp and crabs (Leviticus 11:10-11)
The children that have not obeyed their parents and still are alive (Deuteronomy 21)
Wives that are not subservient to their husbands (Ephesians 5:22)
And these are just the few writings that God has put into human word (through a human hand at his direction) as his teachings that all should obey fully. These are part of his covenant.
@jimsepa, you like so many others cannot seperate Church and State. It is a tough thing to do. A true leader has to make a hard decision at times to do what is right. I'm personally am not religous and I have every right to be this way. It does not mean that I ignorant of what is in the Bible. I do know that it does talks about humility, understanding, tolerance, forgivness, and respect. It took Obama and long time to come to this decission, it wasn't easy for him to do this. It is easy me to make dicissions like this as I don't have the religious part to contend with. The pilgrams came here for religious freedom to escape religious persaquetion.(sp) People of today are not enjoying religious freedom, they are becoming the Inquistion.
There's a passage in the Bible, don't remember where but it says 'I have other sheep, and they too shall hear my voice'...when i was in parochial elementary school I always wondered abut it but never asked.
Man creates God in his own image according to is belief. So if the Christians want to believe that God is a Caucasian male, that's their creation. If black Christians want to believe that God is a black male, that's their creation. If a Satanist wants to believe that their God is a man with goat hooves, horns, and a forked tail, that's their creation. If I want to believe that my 'God' is androgynous and can take on aspects of male or female at will and according to need, that's my creation. If you want to believe that there is no God at all, that's your creation too.
If you believe that God does't make mistakes and that every one of us is exactly how He made us, and you also believe that God is in every man, every woman, everywhere, then wouldn't hating another person mean you hate God too? Wouldn't that be an implicit criticism--"hey, look, I know you think you made everyone perfect and all, but I think you made a mistake with those people over there because they like others of the same gender" or "those people over there because they have the wrong color skin."
I may not be Christian anymore, but I was raised Catholic, and I believed then, as I believe now, that the Supreme Being (whatever you want to call that Being) doesn't see the skin you wear. S/He doesn't see what clothes you put on to hide your figure flaws, doesn't care what makeup you put on to make yourself look pretty. That Supreme Being only sees your soul, and what's in it, and that, in the end, is what's going to matter.
For anyone curious, I'm a practicing Wiccan and I believe in the Goddess's directive. All act of love are My gifts. The Wiccans have sects for lesbians (Dianic Wiccans) and gays (the Minoan Brotherhood) and even for adult incestuous relationships (though this raises eyebrows, as long as it is consensual the majority of us could care less.) As long as it is consensual and done in love, I could care less. I am married, have two kids, am bi, and have had lesbian relationships. And my husband despite being raised Christian, has absolutely no problem with being married to a witch or being married to a woman who appreciates a Victoria's Secret model as much as he does!
And while we're at it: if I were in NC and I were a practicing Dianic Wiccan who wanted to handfast with a woman--wouldn't the NC law abridge MY freedom to practice MY religion, therefore violating MY 1st Amendment rights?
You are the biggest bunch of idiots. Obama could care less, all he cares about are votes. He would come out in favor of child molesting and spousal abuse if he thought it would get him a vote.
If he was this certain about his position, why didn't he institute an executive order for such. He was able to sign other 'diversity' increasing orders, what stopped him from this? Oh wait, why could it be because he needs a podium to stand on?
Amazing that such a small minority gets this much attention. Soon we will see even more abnormal people coming out of the woodwork to claim their 'equal rights' too! Once you open pandoras box, you have to include every depraved sicko imaginable, because it is only 'fair'
I am truly ashamed of some people on here. I do not support our president and am quite Republican. That being said, who am I to decide who can or can't get married? I think that if two individuals are in love then they should be able to declare that love in marriage no matter their race, religion, or sexual preference. I honestly think this is Obama's way of getting votes but I don't care for either candidate so at this point, all I can say in regard to this is that hopefully this decleration will make a difference to some.
Why is it that the bible-thumping right can believe in their fairy stories all they want; but when it comes to rights for real people - people you can see, talk to, etc., those rights are "reserved" for or only "deserved" by straight people?
I am straight and I do not understand all the hoop-la. To me the statement "and now gay people can marry" is a 'Yes and so what?' issue. Kind of like, I like chocolate ice cream and hubby likes vanilla. Who cares? No one but us.
For all you bible thumpers, let me ask you this, just how Christian is it when you act so prejudice? Who are you to judge? What happened to 'judge not, lest ye be judged'? If you are going to trot out a tired, old fairy story as your reference, then shouldn't you at least adhere to it's "teachings"? Leave gay people alone, they have enough issues to deal with.
O.K. liberals go ahead and admit it, Obama is your god. (little g).
In my opinion, churches marry people. Any other couple married by JOP, captain on a ship, etc, should be defined a civil union, it's the same thing from a legal stand point.
No, it's not. Not even close. THAT is why this is an issue.
There IS a big difference between the legal institution of marriage and the matrimony that is recognized by the church. But, there are far too many idiots who cannot even fathom how such a distinction is possible, and those same idiots vote. In fact, many of those idiots will ONLY get up and go to the polls when something against gays, foreigners, abortion or for the death penalty is on the ballot.
check the facts
you forgot one important phrase - it really makes a big difference because it was about intimacy, especially when the next verses deal with bestiallity and incest.
Check the facts: I quite agree. It's obvious you haven't been informed. Did you actually read all of it? Or did you just read the parts that the liberals said you should read? For example:
"No, Lord," Peter declared. "I have never eaten anything that our Jewish laws
have declared impure and unclean."But the voice spoke again: "Do not call something unclean if God has made it clean."( Acts10:14-15)
The truth is I could go through all your points all over again, but what I see here is someone who didn't read the bible and is acting like they did. You should have been able to answer all of your own verses. Makes me think you are not a christian if you are so ill-informed.
Joey, If Obama is a Christian, he is turning away. One of the marks of a Christian is that they turn away from their own thinking to see things the way god does.
Obama made matters clear, that his thinking is evolving.
What sorrow awaits you who are praised by the crowds, for their ancestors also
praised false prophets.( Luke 6:26)
You think this verse fits Obama? Apparently we hear a lot of liberals speaking well of him.
Obama is still on the fence. What kind of bs is "I think a man and a man should be able to legally get married", but then says that the states should have the right to ban it. But that is about as clear as a meglo-maniac such as Obama can make it.
DB Akron, . . Unhappy-1583758,
It would do you some good to use proper punctuation, use of proper nouns in the correct way and capital letters where required.
Writing with a third grade education doesn't help you at all.
... just sayin...
Oh,... and while you are in the business of quoting the bible, can you tell me if you practice these laws of the bible:
EX 21:7-11 A father can sell a daughter into slavery to pay a debt. A daughter sold into slavery is not released at the end of six years as is an ordinary male slave.
EX 21:17, LE 20:9, DT 21:18-21 A child who curses his parent(s) is to be put to death. A stubborn and/or rebellious child is to be put to death.
EX 21:20-21 A slave owner is to be punished if he strikes his slave and the slave dies shortly thereafter. If the slave lives a day or to and then dies, the slave owner is not to be punished. A slave is the same as money to his owner.
If you don't practice these, then you are what we call a "cafeteria christian". You pick what you like and discard what you don't...
There is something wrong with a person that espouses the wonders of the bible and yet it teaches how to sell ones own daughter into slavery, kill your own children and that making your slave suffer for days then die after a "proper" beating.
It's no wonder why bibles and guns go together: Ancient Hatreds and Modern Weapons, that's my kind of entertainment.
DB Akron
You've got one thing right: Christians do tend to turn away from their own thinking.
All they know how to do is parrot bible verses.
Sad...
The "W" Extreme political agenda was to hate gays and this is Romney's stand !
@ Unhappy-1583758
It's funny to me that the people who say "We will not be fooled again" regarding Obama are always people who never voted for him in the first place. It's like you have this delusion that the rest of the country actually agrees with you and wouldn't have voted for him, except they got fooled.
Some who voted for Obama now have buyer's remorse, sure, many are disappointed with how it's turned out, but very few of those are going to vote for Romney in November. Being unhappy with Obama does not make someone a Romney voter.
I wonder if you'll ever be able to accept that the truth is, we knew who Obama was, and that's why we voted for him.
minus, most of the people I am in contact that were Obama voters in 2008 will not vote for him again. Practically all of them are going to vote for the only person in a position to rid ourselves of his incompetent administration.So, yes they will vote for Romney, the only one of the two candidates that has a lick of business experience, good or bad. You are going to be upset in November. We also knew what Obama was in 2008, if we had read his books.
6dogs, you missed my point completely. Re-read my post in the context that I am a true believer in the separation of Church and State. Current political discussion coming from the Right clearly shows they plan on voting their religious convictions over the freedoms of other Americans. It would be naive to say that religion doesn't play a role in our political environment. I wish it wasn't true, and we need to ensure that all of our liberties are protected from those religious nutcases who want to dictate how we live our lives.
'God wants...'
Leave it to a Republican to claim something as bold and arrogant as to know what God wants. If anybody is going to hell it's fake Christians who manipulate the Bible to serve specific ends instead of loving thy neighbor.
Guess this makes Obama a "flip-flopper"
The panderer in Chief has spoken (against his older opinions). And Mitt is a flipper?
Do you guys really want to compare Mitt's flip-floppiness to that of Obama? Really??
I'd suggest you keep that Pandora's box shut.
This President will say anything , and do anything that he thinks will help him in the election. I've got news for you all. He's NOT going to win this time. He should not have won the first time. There were just too many un educated voters that thought he would give them everything for free. Here's a novel idea. Get out and do it for yourself without having to ride on the success of others who did!
Jeff: I've got news for you. Your panderer from Massachusetts is NOT going to win. Again. There are just too many educated voters who know what kind of a clueless, self-righteous blow-hard he is, (who happens to be terrible at governing OR creating jobs: no, creating wealth for oneself is NOT the same as creating jobs). Here's a novel idea. Get out and do for yourself like real hard working Americans and stop waiting for Mr. Romney toclear your path to Cayman Island accounts for you.
Nice jeff, spoken like a true fascist.
So, you're right and the majority of voters whom elected Obama are all wrong.
You're party lost...own your loss and quit whining like a baby.
AMEN to that Jeff-1945027 !!!!!
Funny that just 24 hours ago we Gallup published that 50% of Americans favor gay marriage as opposed to 48% who don't... This president is a joke.
Flopping like a fish out of water. The old school saying for this was "brown nosing" (has NOTHING to do with the color of his skin!!!). IMO, he is using it to gain election votes. And finally, WHY does this qualify as breaking news??
Yes EngEsq. WE do. A flip flop is a flip flop no matter who it is. You and yours have mocked and condemned Romney for his "evolution" in opinion. Now that it is time for your guy it is supposed to be different? That is the liberal way I suppose. Sad.
Hell no. Romney is the Flipper and that is a fact.
Yes Sir Mr. President! Equal Rights for all.
AS...at least you proudly wear the socialist name tag. What is Obama's problem?
I am completely disappointed in hearing about this, the Bible states a union between man and a woman? What is there not too understand about that? This world has come upon evil times and disgusting acts that the government is allowing to state that its ok.... It's a shame....I am glad I can meet my maker with a sound heart and mind and not do what others think they should do just to get VOTES!!!!!! Money and Votes that's what this world is made of not morals and principles.
This is another ploy to get votes, he can't stand on his record so he is using gay rights to get votes.
Wake up people, he has made a mess of this country. He can't do what he said in 08' so he is just feeding you lip service like he did then. We need someone to try to get us out of this mess he has added since 08', the country needs manufacturing jobs. People are hurting out there, wake up !!!!
I like Commander-In-Pander
Protip: We aren't a Christian nation. The sooner you get that through your skull the sooner we can move on with life.
are you the same person with the same exct thoughts and desires that you were last year or 10 years ago? no you are not, no one is. We get new information and come to new conclusions on different issues. Our President has that right as well. We are all human beings and changing all the time. Expand that mind of yours.
What Obama says and what Obama does are two very different things. Obama cares about one thing and one thing only, getting re-elected. So Obama will do or say anything he feels is politically expedient. Obama has already stated he will have more flexibility if re-elected, and that is when everyone would find out what his real agenda is for the country. Obama has done nothing for almost four years but campaign for a second term, you know the flexibility term when accountability will not matter to him.
how is it flip-flopping when he admitted that he was wrong in the first place and has changed his view on the subject? there are a lot of Americans pushing this issue, so if he were to ignore it, then he would be labled as not caring what his people want.
mitt never admits being wrong. he just flat out lies.
There's a difference between blowing in the wind and continually changing one's professed opinion to gain popularity and using one's brain to consider differing opinions, facts, situations, circumstances, and legal issues in order to make a more informed decision. Not every change of opinion is flip-flopping. Intelligent debate often leads to a change of opinion; that's not flip-flopping.
Having said that, it takes a certain degree of intelligence to recognize an intelligent reconsideration/change of heart when you see one.
This is a deal breaker! Vote America! Romney 2012!
Very interesting. At the DNC I noticed gay and lesbian supporters of Mrs. Clinton crying when she made her speech and realized then that they had been largely ignored by Obama, who probably could not have been elected if he had supported them but was comfortable criticizing Bill Clinton for only going as far as DADT and not affirming their right to serve openly. While I believe his evolution explanation, the timing is definitely advantageous with his party and Libertarians.
The difference is in degree and owning up to it. Romney has flipped on birth control, health care, abortion, welfare, foreign policy issues, gay rights, etc. MULTIPLE TIMES. And rather than owning up to it, he says that the circumstances are different. Health-care for him was at the STATE level so it's ok, for example.
Obama if FAR from perfect. But at least he has been comparatively stable.
Marriage, either religious or civil has been between a man and a woman for thousands of years. Obama is just looking for votes and to make sure he doesn't lose the financial support of the gay/lesbian groups.
It should be up to the voters of the individual states to decide. Put it on the ballots for the November elections.
Personally he should be more concerned about winning so narrowly against a convicted felon than pandering to the gay/lesbian community.
It's all Joe's fault. The human gaffe machine strikes again. Oh, you haven't heard a Joe Biden Gaffe? Just wait a day or two.
Wow, Watching, what a perfectly subtle, yet snarky, put down concerning the intelligence of anyone who doesn't agree with your supercilious opinion......and how perfectly characteristic of a lib.
Wow I struck a nerve!!!! LMAO. Collapsed for saying "panderer in chief"? Man you libs are sensitive. Maybe it was because I didn't capitalize Panderer thus showing no respect for the office?
The only thing consistent with Obama has been his lies, his flip flopping, his divisive politics and his corrupt politics. And the funny thing when I see posts on sites such as this one are the left wingers who pat themselves on the back and think they are educated. To be fooled by the likes of Obama just shows how weak in the brain many of the left wing and liberals really are. Or they are just as corrupt as Obama and have never truly had to actually sweat for their money.
It never ceases to amaze me how the religious right is all for less government unless they can con the government into enforcing their bigoted agendas on the rest of us!
I don't think his opinion has evolved as much as they want you to believe. I think President Obama has been a quiet supporter of gay rights all along, considering some of the things he's managed to change. And I think if Republicans hadn't turned this into such a hot-button topic, Obama probably would have remained publically vague. But by definition, a Democrat has to be supportive of equal civil rights. With Republicans actively moving to specifically deny marriage to gays, I think Obama really has no choice but to declare a position.
Even President Lincoln's opinions about slavery changed during the course of the Civil War. That is how normal, intelligent people DO change their minds or soften their opinions based on new evidence-such as the fact that there are some groups who will NEVER allow same gender equality regardless what you call it. I, too, have always felt that civil unions would suffice and the government should get out of the business of marriage all together anyway, but these amendments take that possibility away so all your left with is unfair practices that are ONLY legitimate to religious sensibilities.
Also, I take extreme insult in your assertion that I am uneducated or I want something for free. There are many intelligent, hard working people who happen to believe the ideas behind the democratic party are the fairest and best ways to move forward. I truly resent the incessant blathering about Dems not working...that is total BS! I have worked everyday of my life since I was 16 except when I delivered 2 children...and I didn't have maids or nannies or a bazillion dollars to make it easy. Only one member of my family has ever taken advantage of the success of others and that was a TeaParty member! I DO get out and work as do every other Democrat I know. The real problem appears to be that a great segment of our society just can't stand the fact that someone may get help-even though they themselves are very quick to take what is "theirs" (ie, Medicare). It truly sounds as if most Repubs would just as soon we went back to serfdom...and what truly cracks me up is that they vote against their own self-interest. Almost like they think these rich business men are going to take care of our society out of the goodness of their hearts...not hardly. Do you honestly think that corporate America cares one whit about any person? Only if it makes them more money. They do not care about health or infrastructure or schooling because they make enough to not have to worry about that. The rest of the 99 just get to suffer and work harder for less...and the whole country goes to hell in a handbasket.
Oh, BTW, people in glass houses should not throw stones...especially when there is videotape of REAL flip-flops.
LeAnn, you are free to read and interpret the Bible however you wish. You are NOT free to impose your beliefs on me. Or anyone else. It is a free country and we are all guaranteed equal rights under the Constitution. Gay, religious, partisan, doesn't matter, we are all equal.
What a class A whopper you are, John. You want to know what a Panderer is?? Mitt Romney was out in Michigan yesterday openly LYING to the world actually taking credit for rescuing the Automobile industry when there are 7000 video clips and umpteen op eds he has written over the last 4 years where he clearly advocates for letting the auto industry die a natural death with no assistance from the govt. Your Panderer doesn't just pander, he lies while he is doing it as if he thinks video and internet and paper does not exist for historical review.
And by the way, all the right wing dweeb-jobs out there saying this is a move to get votes - are you stupid or something?? This is actually the opposite of pandering to get votes. This is a huge risk for this man. When was the last time you saw a political figure step into such a monumental issue that could easily hurt him just a few months before a huge election?? He did this less than 24 hours after NC, a state he is trying to win again, voted 60-40 to ban the very thing he is standing up for. So please, oh neo-con geniuses, explain to me how this is a fake attempt to garner votes?? The easier safer thing would have been to do what Mitt does all the time...for example with his taxes history...refuse to come out with the truth and just do nothing.
What President Obama just did is one of the most culturally courageous decisions any President has made, ever, particularly given the context of timing. This is supposed to be a country of freedom, not oppression and repression of other people's rights just because some of us might not agree with other people's feelings or life make ups. Conservatives are only to happy to send our soldiers to die thousands of miles away in the name of "democracy" and human rights, yet, right here at home on Main Street, you won't allow your fellow citizens to live without repression.
And to Leann Skahl and the other degenerates hiding behind the Bible thinking God is waiting for you at the gates of heaven to give you a big hug for hating on and discriminating against his creation (yes, Leann, even the gays were created by God - just like you and I) - that heat you are feeling coming around the corner is the hell you will occupy when your misinformed time here on earth is over. But fear not, you will have plenty of stunned and confused hate-mongering hell dwellers to give you company. Just don't say no one warned you - LOL!
LeAnn- The bible is NOT equal to the constitution. There IS a separation of church and state. You religious fanatic's are trying to stuff your view down everyone throats and I find it appalling!! EVERYONE should have the opportunity to love who they want. I'm not gay but I'm sick of your tea baggers and gopnothings think you are the keepers of the US. You guys and gals have only one viewpoint and try to stuff your ideas and values as the ONLY way. You have the right to think and believe as you wish, just leave the rest of us to think, believe and act as we wish.
why doesn't he spend valuable time deliberating and proposing solutions for (1) the first budget in 3 1/2 years (that will garner votes); (2) solving the deficit crisis saddling our grandchildren with interminable debt; (3) unsustainable entitlements; (4) actual economic recovery creating jobs and (5) all the other myriad problems for which he has no solution. POSTURING FOR ANOTHER VOTING BLOC AND RE-ELECTION ONLY--God help America
MQ1968 - If 50% of Americans are for gay marriage, how come so many states have voted on an amendment defining marriage as One Man and One Woman?
Also, for those quoting the First Amendment, where does it guarantee the right to same sex marriage? I think that argument has been shot down before, right?
What's with people today? Haven't any of you noticed that our nations morals have been steadily declining? All our standards have changed for the worse. More revealing clothing, pornography everywhere, same gender relationships... the list keeps going. When you look at the family what do you see? It's being torn to shreds with all these many evil morals that people are thinking is 'normal'. What's normal is what has been in motion for hundreds of thousands of years in the past. True family unity and respect. Gay marriage is false. It will never bring true happiness. True happiness is raising a family and with gay marriage that's not possible people. If everyone were gay we'd all die because there wouldn't be any posterity. Seriously now.
yes Janie we should let the voters decide the rights of those they don't like because they are so feeble minded they can't think for themselves and instead let some "pass the collection plate" fraud do it for them. I think I'll start a movement and demand the voters get to vote on whether or not to jail all people named janie! Yes, that's the ticket! Doofus!
Kaka89...this just in for the clueless. The election is about Obama and his pandering non-stop Changing the subject works on 4-year olds.
Because we tend to be apathetic. Democrats tend to vote in much lower numbers than republicans. And the frothy mouthed anti-gay crowd is as dependable a voting block as you can get.
Offer a marginal tax deduction for doing your civic duty and voting (or make it a holiday where businesses cannot be open) and I'm sure the results would be very different.
How's exactly is this pandering? I'm pretty sure that Obama already had the support of the LGBT community. Did you see the results of North Carolina last night? Do you think he gained any votes there last night? Or anywhere across the South? I was very much on the fance but he gained my respect and vote today. And my wife's.
Lets see, 200 years ago we were committing genocide on the natives. 150 years ago we had slavery. 100 years ago women were property and had to marry their rapists. 50 years ago we had segregation.
Yup, our morals are sure going downhill today by letting gay people marry!
None of the governments business.. Its a religious function.. Gays agreed with liberty when he wouldnt support your efforts.. now?
But at least we now know his personal views on life is not very Abrahamic.. Bye bye to the much larger Christian vote.. Thanks for continuing to make this election easy for us Mr. Obama....
No more flip floppers... Time for a man with a record of honesty... RP2012 to get the government out of our personal lives!
It is funny to see all these homophobes going giving the "he's a Muslim" line. Not knowing that in muslim countries you can be killed for being openly gay. It doesnt matter what the bible says. I am a non believer and your stance that the christian way is the only way just makes it harder and harder for people like my self to continue to stay away from religion.
Dust - I'll tell you what...if you don't like revealing clothing, pornography, same gender relationships, etc, then don't wear revealing clothing, watch porn, engage in a same sex relationships, etc. You are free to do what you feel is moral, but don't expect everyone else to have the same defination as you do. We are in America, where we are free to choose our own religion, and live our lives as we see fit, as long as we don't infringe on the rights of others or impose our beliefs on others.
Wow Dust...is your handle descriptive of your age? I've been around for over 6 decades and guess what, "Leave it to Beaver" and "Happy Days" never happened. I seem to remember girls in high school mysteriously "going to live with their aunt", back ally abortions, rampant alcoholism, Joseph McCarthy, duck and cover...what "good ol' days" are you alluding to? By the way, there was a very lively porn industry in the 40's and 50's. You just had to buy a magazine or pictures rather than the internet.
Please name a president in the last 50 years that did not say ANYTHING to get re=elected. Exactly... they all do it.
You haters need to grow up and stop sounding like a bunch of children. You are no fun to argue with when you say such pathetically stupid parrot like comments.
Think real hard and find some new material. I want to hear some fresh hate from the righties. This same old stuff is really tired.
Not everyone is a Christian or reads the Bible. Christianity isn't the only religion out there. Religion has no place shaping laws.
What is there not to understand about that?
If it was a religious function, you wouldn't have to go to city hall for a marriage license to make it legal, would you?
Guess what, there is probably less than 5% of the US population that are descendants of Abraham. So...you know what you can do with your "Abrahamic" law...the same thing you can do with Sharia Law. Send it back to the middle-east where it belongs. Most of us would rather have our laws based on the Constitution.
What a stupid, narrow minded remark.
SmartyCat. Um, your fellow Lefties could use some new material, too. Just sayin'.
I am a Christian and I applaud same-sex marriage simply because not only does what is recognized as a marriage in this country have nothing to do with religion or the required acts within a marriage as defined in the Bible, the biblical definition is not necessarily in agreement with other religions, which defies separation of church and state. In other words, I don’t want the government all up in my religion – literally – much less my marriage. HOWEVER – I agree that the timing is suspect. If this was not spurred by Biden’s declaration why didn’t he say something before the vote in NC? Or wait this late in an election year? He seriously just had this epiphany now? I guess we’ll know for sure if this is just another empty campaign promise or the real deal after November 6.
Actually, I find this all too convenient. I mean just yesterday, NC voted against gay marriages and today the President speaks out in favor? Why didn't he speak out yesterday, while the vote against NC was going on? Perhaps he really didn't want to pick a side and felt now that he had to in order to gain the gay vote?
A little bit too convenient if you ask me. I guess he was hoping we would forget about all the things he didn't do, if he said this.
It's never too late to do the right thing.
LeAnn::: And WHERE in your bible does it say that it is OK to sleep around and father a whole slew of bastard brats? Or is your bible different from mine?
Where in your bible does it say that is OK for a woman to sleep around? And it is worse if she is a married woman, but it still OK?
Where in your bible does it say that it is OK to kill someone just because you don't believe in his lifestyle? Or is your bible different from mine?
Where in your bible does it say that it is OK to murder someone because of the color of his/her skin? I haven't found it in my Bible-- is mine different from yours?
My Bible speaks of love of your fellow man, not to hate because you don't like something about his lifestyle.
I guess my Bible is old fashioned. After all, I have had it for about 67 years. Maybe it has been rewritten in this time.
Well woopty freaking do to you. If you don't know pandering when you see it, then I can't help you, but you just passed the IQ test for Obama voters.
Hey Jeff. If you're going to call the people that voted for PRESIDENT Obama un-educated you should really spell UNEDUCATED correctly. It kind of makes you look, well, uneducated.
Whoooooeeeee! It's gonna be a great DNC convention this summer! More fun than a barrel of monkeys!
Mr. Obama has now alienated the moderates and independents in the party in order to placate the liberal wing. Lots of upset delegates are going to argue heatedly at the convention. The Platform committee will probably leave blood on the floor.
After the DNC convention the voters who supported the NC amendment (61% in favor) and similar laws in more than 30 states, are going to flee the Demcratic banner.
It's gonna be a WOWSER of a summer. I ain't seen one like this one since '68
@Mario
Ah, no he hasn't. There was nothing in that or any other story saying otherwise. BTW, if a person is an independent they're not on the floor at the convention, Democrat, Republican or tea party,hence independent. If you're going to deride and mock at least get it right lest somebody deride and mock you.
Mario independents? No most independents or moderates tend to stand on the fence on religious issues. The conservative part of my voting has more to do with spending than. If gays can marry. As an independent I tend to like the idea of a more free society where everyone is treated equal. And also not have religion pushed into politics. Right wing conservatism at its extreme is the Religious part. Not the smaller Government part or the separation between church and state part. At least the way I view it all.
I do not believe in welfare. Or spending on a huge military presence to defend JESUS. I do not agree with spending to build up other nations we just bombed in a war either. That money should be either returned to the taxpayers. Or used to build up or own infrastructure to create Jobs here at home. I tend to stay Moderate and independent due to the idea that Right or Left in the extreme tends to KILL the middle class. And Romney is a religious nut-job. Who believes John Smith is the messiah.
@mario69, I'm surprised that you ain't dead yet. Let me ask you this, if Etch-a-Sketch makes it, how much do you think he will want for a stimulus package. Now that is what I call funnier than a barrel of monkies.
Watch the Convention. It's gonna be a wowser.
@John.bunchof#s..I certainly know what pandering is. 98% of LGBT was going to vote for Obama, whether he officially supported gay marriage or not. Really nothing to gain there. Pandering is Romney sucking up to extreme right wing Xtian, trailerpark, toothless rednecks, with whom he has nothing in common or cares about, but still needs their vote.
How exactly does this surprise anyone considering they were repealing the "don't ask, don't tell" policy earlier? This is just another step in that same evolution.
Ruken
Your absolutely right, we are not a Christian nation, you are proof of that, BUT this nation was founded on CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES. Your get it?
Floyd you are wrong, this nation was founded on European Enlightenment philosophies such as the freedom to practice any religon you choose or non at all, on the idea that ALL men were created equal and given ( endowed) with certain rights by their creator namely the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Read the founding documents of this country again, i.e. the declarartion of independence, the preamble to the constitution and the bill of rights, check out the 14th ammendment to the constitution, after doing so see if YOU GET IT!!!!
Where do you think that came from Carl? Try to explain it away all you want to but you are wrong, Get it? Goodness get your head out.
Several years ago I heard a discussion on a radio program between several people as to what was boring to them. I'll never forget one persons comment. "What is boring to me is a room full of people named Carl."
Susie-2759697
LeAnn::: And WHERE in your bible does it say that it is OK to sleep around and father a whole slew of bastard brats? Or is your bible different from mine?
Where in your bible does it say that is OK for a woman to sleep around? And it is worse if she is a married woman, but it still OK?
Where in your bible does it say that it is OK to kill someone just because you don't believe in his lifestyle? Or is your bible different from mine?
Where in your bible does it say that it is OK to murder someone because of the color of his/her skin? I haven't found it in my Bible-- is mine different from yours?
What?? Since when did anyone post these things you are stating? This is utterly ridiculous!
Of course it isn't right to do these things and very few do, the fact that many disagree with gays asserting they are 'normal' or anyone else who is different from heterosexuals does not mean we go do these things to other people. Your logic is very unsound!
6dogs -
It is both rude and premature to think me dead yet. Go out to the barn and take care of your dogs, they probably miss you.
No matter what Obama does, he can't please some people.
People will find fault with him no matter what.
by now even the obama zombies gotta be wondering what this guy is thinking.
even the gays should see thru this shallow desperate attempt to get votes.
REMEMBER IT'S NOT WHAT OBAMA HAS DONE OVER THE LAST 2 WEEKS SINCE HE'S GONE
INTO FULL CAMPAIGN MODE (like he hasn't been for the last 3-1/2 years....lol)
ITS WHAT HAS HE DONE SINCE HE HAS BEEN ELECTED.
ANY FOOL CAN CHANGE HIS POSITION IN DESERATION TO GET VOTES.
ANYBODY BUT OBAMA 2012!!!!!!!!!
I knew it!!
CNN reporter says Obama in "same sex"
marriage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu2gnviZimY
it's so easy to find fault in obama. he's an idiot.
Gay marriage -- bad for children. So sad.
Go to your local school. Ask the kids how many would want to be raised by two Chaz Bonos versus normal parents. None. Yet this is the nightmare that LGBT want to inflict.
Marriage is about children, not votes, Obama. What a failure Obama is. Glad he is gone in November.
He certainly has tried. He has made promises and pandered for votes to almost every segment and class of Americans. Of course, there are a lot of intelligent people who see through his lies and are not content with empty promises and the brief tickle from hot air being blown up their asses.
Its sad we have gay haters like Mitt the Flip Flopper and the GOP TeaBag hates in this Country !
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China personally i don't give a rats ass about gay marriage the difference here is using political manipulation against 2 pawns- the church and the LGBT community-the left and the right to create a wedge partisan issue to garner votes.
They don't care what the church thinks the only thing they want is recognition from the Goverment to give them money via taxes, and divorce and parental rights.
Now considering from the mouth of the great big O he said it was a state right then why is the Government chiming in now of all times?
I thought you guys were freedom loving Constitution lovers...shouldn't you be happy that your Presdient (yes...YOUR President) is coming out for EQUALITY and defending peoples freedom to love and marry who they want.
Or do you have stiulations on Freedom and Equality?
The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, drafted by James Madison, declares that Congress "shall pass no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Madison's friend and mentor Thomas Jefferson was proud of his role in drafting and winning assent to Virginia's religious liberty law (1786). In a letter of 1802, he referred to the need for a "high wall of separation" between church and state. Both men considered religious liberty not just a convenient political response to the actual diversity of denominations in the new Republic but as a natural right.
I’m not saying gay marriage is right. In fact, for all I know, it could be a moral abomination. We’re not talking about a math equation or the rotational orbit of Jupiter here. We’re talking about what people’s consciences are telling them, and my thoughts on the decency or indecency of gay marriage are no more inherently right than anyone else’s.
As a result, I’m not going to tell you what the hell to think. Truth be told, I don’t really give a @!$%#. If you believe homosexual sex acts will land people in Hell, warn your friends. If you believe homosexuals have nothing to be ashamed of, go hug some gay dudes. Your thoughts don’t affect anyone else’s lives, except, of course, when they’re written into a state’s constitution.
The battle for the soul of America and the battle for the moral path this country will follow into the future shouldn’t be fought in a courtroom or a voting booth. It should be fought every single morning by hard-working people trying to do the right thing.
If you think your neighbor isn’t living correctly, use him as motivation to achieve your own goals. If you think the girl down the street is a slut, make wise decisions so you don’t end up like her. If you think gay marriage is wrong, share those feelings with your loved ones, but always remember, those are your opinions, not excuses to force people into behaving how you would.
I’m not saying gay marriage is right, but against and banning it is definitely wrong.
Mr Barack Obama Capacity as American private citizen,a family man and as devoted christian he against it But As President of United States he support it.
Brilliant President of United States of America decision.
Obama/Biden 2012
Geo1957883 i have to beg you to turn the other way cause you know what thats what this world needs. God is our perfect father and he dosent need people like you and the other nay sayers to baby sit for him. I dont believe in forcing churches to marry people they dont want to marry but if there is a church willing to marry gays than who are we to say they cant do it. it dosent affect you or me what the gays do so we should have no say in it what so ever. thats the problem with America today, people who have nothing to do with a subject trying to tell those who actually do have somthing to do with it what they can and cant do.
About F-ing time.
I know evolution is slow, but that took forever!
So when does Webster re-define the word "Marriage"? "the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law"
Well done! Long overdue. But nonetheless, well done. Very brave to take this step in front of the whole wide free world. Great!
The upcoming "Clooney dinner" and increasing pressure from the G/L fundraisers appears to have impacted the pace of his "evolution" on this issue...
I don't know. How long did it take them to change it from "being united to the opposite sex and same race"?
As a fiscal conservative and social Libertarian I applaud the President! I will always vote against my pocketbook and for equal rights. My wife is hugging the awesome gay couple from next door right now.
Yes Sir Mr. President! Equal Rights for all.
I'm so glad, I'm going to have a threeway with the awesome gay couple from next door right now.
Really now .... i think de-evolution is more like it ....
Enjoy LostFlorida, I guess the fear that the possibility of gay marriage would turn everyone gay did come true.
This is hilarious, you people act as though this is some sort of benefit. It is one man, who will not use his office or power for this, saying he is ok with something that 46% of his own party are not OK with. And somehow this will get him a victory in November? That being said he better move the Democratic Convention because it is in North Carolina where gay marriage is not legal. What kind of mixed signals are you people believing, here watch my hand keep watching ... the other hand just stole you wallet and you dignity. In the overall race this changes nothing Obama is still behind Romney in the polls and has one of the worst approval ratings of any first term President. Good luck with that.
Sorry, but this is the definition from Webster:
Nice try, though. Perhaps, when you want to try to make a "statement" supporting your stance, it might be a good idea to do a little research first.
Yes, Blonddumbchick,,, you are what de-evolution is about, your small minded pea brain has yet to expand, being filled with hate, commonsense and decency can't find any place in your pea brain.
Hey, dmd, I think Reagan had worse approval ratings after people discovered he was actually a vampire. See, I can make up stuff, too!
Back in the day, conservatives used to wave their Bibles and declare that slavery was how God wanted it and must never be stopped. Later they waved them and declared women must not be granted the vote. Then that blacks and whites must never attend the same schools or live in the same neighborhoods, and most certainly must never marry one another. Such changes would ruin the nation and horrify God. Now they wave their Bibles in their crusade against same-sex marriage. They were wrong then and they are just as wrong now, and in the future, school kids will learn about this battle and wonder what the fuss was all about.
Things don't de-evolve. It isn't even a word. You can be unhappy in the direction of evolution, but it is a one way street. Might want to rethink your monkier. PDog had a pretty good suggestion for one.
Lea Ann- This has nothing to do with the bible because after all our government is supposed to be a secular government not beholden to any form of religion. So you may practice your religion to your hearts content and if you don't believe in gay marriage then don't enter into one but for those that don't belong to your faith or have a different view of the world, they have a right...a civil right if they choose to enter into a same sex marriage. The bible is not the overriding authority at the governmental level.
Here yea go @Left Wing Nut Job follow the page to the center and it will show the past Presidents approval ratings, no two term President had a approval rating as low as Obama currently has at -23. Bush was -11 and managed to pull of the election simply because he was running against Kerry. As a result of this announcement and he complete lack of turning this ailing economy around that number will continue to fall. As a matter of fact and record on the above link he has not had an approval rating in the positive since his 10 month in office. These are facts not fiction.
Interesting choice of words Joshua. It seems to me most of the bullying has been direct AT gays. You must live in a very interesting universe...perhaps one where trickle-down economics actually works?
@EngEsq - you are right they do not de-evolve, we simple remove the evolving items like a sixth finger, etc. Just all the previous evolutions the American people will cut off the evolution and elect someone who brings back the proper mind set, ONE MAN ONE WOMAN. So in a sense we can de-evolve if you truly believe that this statement is an evolutionary step.
Laurie,
Well said.... The Christian right, I just love the position they take.....Their idea of freedom of religion is to demand that we legislate their beliefs !!!! To hell with anyone's else's..... It's the reason that religion is on the decline in this country, it's like a guy who can't keep it in his pants...who is married....just can't help themselves....Then they do the Christian thing by Hating anyone who don't want to have intercourse with them....
They forget that freedom of religion also means, Freedom from their religion and religious beliefs in government...and legislation...
dmd, that is about the most nonsensical post I've read.
Which mindset would you like to bring back, by the way? One man one woman same race? Same religion? One man many women? Men and girls? Man and his wife who he basically owns?
They are all prior accepted versions of marriage after all.
So if someone doesn't agree with same sex marriage does that mean they hate them? No. What rights are being violated?
@EngEsq - Of course it is nonsensical because it does not meet with your point of view. ONE MAN ONE WOMAN as it was in the beginning and shall forever continue to be. Is that plain enough for you?
Not always. However, if you force that opinion onto someone who is gay by preventing them to do what any heterosexual couple is able to do in this country, then you are being hateful toward them.
Disagree all you want. Don't have a gay marriage even. But don't take away the rights of others.
BTW, many cases have defined marriage as a right, including loving v Virginia.
Plain, but still stupid. You are claiming that the definition of marriage from 1968-present is what it "was in the beginning and shall forever continue to be". That's pretty narrow vision really.
Marriage has morphed and changed throughout history. This is just one more change. And it will happen in the next 10 or so years. It's almost a mathematical certainty.
And if that one way street is in the wrong direction the result is extinction. I personally don't want to see this country go any deeper into the progressive, liberal abyss.
dmd...them thar facts are an irritable thing, huh? Current job approval rating for Obama compared to approval ratings for others at the same point in their terms:
Obama: 48%
"W": 47%
Clinton: 54%
Bush the Elder: 41%
Reagan: 53%
Carter: 40%
Ford: 47%
Nixon: 58%
Johnson: 75%
Eisenhower: 70%
Truman: 39%
Yeah, Obama is far worse than any president in history. Could he do better? Sure. Is it possible you are exaggerating a bit? I think the above answers that.
Sucks to be you then. And please, explain to me how gay marriage will lead to the extinction of the institution.
Yes I agree. Evolution is WAY too slow.
Now let's go back and finish abolishing slavery by doing away with marriage completely.
No one should have the right to possess another human being. Period.
It just happens to be one more step in the direction of tolerance in the name of "progression". Without direction, and a set of guidelines in which to live, chaos will ensue. With progression comes more progression. One small step at a time until the point of no line of distinction between right and wrong, good and bad, or sense of direction for all involved. You have so many people going in so many directions with no sense of what is common good that it will lead to failure by separation from a common goal.
Imagine if you will a company going into business with rules and guidelines for the operation of the business and its employees. Now imagine that management team getting more and more lax in their supervision of those employees and relaxing the rules to "meet the changing times" and therefore spreading the direction they need to go. What was a straight line philosophy that would work became the "animals" running the zoo. Slowly but surely less and less was getting done due to lax discipline and the general feeling that the plain and simple fact that those employees showed up for work and therefore existed was enough for them to get paid. Eventually, without change and revisiting of the founding "business plan" the company would go down. The leadership failed all involved by not keeping the original ideology and vision and, HERE IS THE BIG WORD "identity" they once had.
Giving in to each and every group who feels entitled to something no matter what it is, without thought of the common good or the fact that it may be trivial to the majority, is certain doom. The more we spread and branch out the definition and identity of what our country is about, the less viable we will become. With so many messages going out in the way of actions, no one will know who we are.
In other words, this progressive movement and tolerance for any and all comers to change the culture of what America once was, is muddling our identity and credibility on the world stage. If we spread out any more the country as we know it will be extinct.
I know long winded and some irrelevant points but, the same sad ending.
Love, love, love this. If only people would start looking at the how to make this country great instead of how this country can make them great, or what their thoughts of greatness are???? In would be a great place indeed.
One word. Pandering.
I need more votes, I'll agree to anything!!!! I'm the prez baby!!!!
Mitt Romney's new bumper sticker ("I Hate Gays") is that a Flip Flopper or what !
Next Polygamy! Then Incest!
You are such a moron.
By the way, the people who commit incest are the same people who vehemently oppose gay marriage.
If you don't already live in a state where this the widely held belief, I think you should move there.
Only in the minds of far-right conservatives.
Tell that to Germany who is being bullied into accepting incestual relationships under the same exact arguments used to ram gay marriage down our throats.
No, just wait till Romney gets into office someday ... THEN they'll talk about legalizing polygamy!
We already have both those things.. In North Carolina we can marry our cousins just not our gay cousins..hahahah
Why is it that opponents of gay marriage can't talk about any actual problem with gay marriage, but have to change the subject to some other kind of union? Does gay marriage hurt anyone? If so, who, and how?
That is without one of the most absurd comments. Obviously, you are a moron.
You know you can already marry your cousin in more than half the states right?
I suggest you stop your Freudian slips and just get on it.
Joshua: Methinks thou dost protest too much!
@Joshua Skains
I'm pretty sure that's what some people said when it became OK for whites to marry blacks and other races.
Sounds like biblical times to me.
They used to say the same thing about mixed race marriages.