E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
Vice President Joe Biden on Sunday said that's he's "absolutely comfortable" with married same-sex couples being granted the same rights as heterosexual pairs.
"I am absolutely comfortable with the fact that men marrying men, women marrying women, and heterosexual men and women marrying another are entitled to the same exact rights, all the civil rights, all the civil liberties," he told NBC's David Gregory on "Meet the Press." "And quite frankly, I don't see much of a distinction beyond that."
President Barack Obama has said his position on same sex marriage is "evolving," and he supported civil unions but opposed marriage for gay couples during the 2008 campaign. Biden noted Sunday that the "president sets the policy" and that he did not know if the administration would formally come out in favor of same-sex marriage in the president's second term should he be re-elected.
But the vice president said that attitudes about gay marriage in America are changing in favor of greater tolerance for loving homosexual partners.
On Meet the Press today, the vice president discussed the administration's position in the same-sex marriage debate.
"The good news is that as more and more Americans become to understand what this is all about is a simple proposition," he said. "Who do you love? Who do you love? And will you be loyal to the person you love? And that's what people are finding out is what -- what all marriages, at their root, are about."
An aide pointed to the administration's efforts to challenge the Defense of Marriage Act and said that the vice president's comments only reiterated Obama's past support for "committed and loving same-sex couples."
"The vice president was saying what the president has said previously -- that committed and loving same-sex couples deserve the same rights and protections enjoyed by all Americans, and that we oppose any effort to roll back those rights," the aide said. "That's why we stopped defending the constitutionality of Section 3 of the Defense of Marriage Act in legal challenges and support legislation to repeal it. Beyond that, the vice president was expressing that he too is evolving on the issue, after meeting so many committed couples and families in this country."
Section 3 is the section defines marriage for federal purposes as between one man and one woman.
Biden, who twice ran for president before accepting the job of Obama's second-in-command, pushed back on persistent speculation that he could be replaced on the 2012 ticket by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. "There's no way out. I mean, they've already printed Obama-Biden!" he said.
And he quipped Sunday that he and one-time rival Clinton may run on a joint ticket in 2016.
"I think we may run as a team," he said, quickly noting that he was joking.
"I don't know whether I'm gonna run," he added. "And Hillary doesn't know whether she's gonna run."
Human Rights Campaign, an advocacy group for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender rights, said it was encouraged by Biden's comments. Biden "rightly articulated that loving and committed gay and lesbian couples should be treated equally," President Joe Solmonese said in a statement. "Now is the time for President Obama to speak out for full marriage equality for same-sex couples."
Would someone please explain to me exactly how Gay Marriage threatens heterosexuals civil liberties & civil rights?
Better yet, how do those who hate big goverment condone the evil goverment barging into our bedrooms?
You da man Joe!
American's are coming around to the idea of civil unions, but I'm not sure they are there yet for gay marriage.
Myself, if two people want to get married it doesn't matter to me the gender that they are. Note: for those that will now say that then the push will be for people to be able to marry goats, get over yourselves. Nobody is talking about that.
Romney will have a hard time with this issue having just fired a gay aide with pressure from the GOP.
Willard folded like a cheap suit!
One more example of his utter lack of leadership!
The Romney "magic" campaign.
500,000 jobs per month and 4% unemployment.
But, Romney never says how he will accomplish this. And, he has stated that he learned from his father not to give "details" about proposals because it can sink you in an election.
Well, Mr. Romney, just how will you put the economy on track. How about some specifics. Or is it all going to be lip service.
L
Unless either my husband or I are secretly gay, I have yet to figure out how gay marriage would threaten my marriage.
It doesn't.
Animals are next!
no one, but the left wing nuties, said it threatens traditional marriage. But it is an afront to common sense. The goal is to change the definition, the goal is to convince everyone that homosexuality is normal behavior and it simply is not. Never will be. Marriage for thousands of years has been the cornerstone of the family and has been a societal joining on men with women and vice versa. Doesn't matter how much you complain or throw insults at people for opposing it, it is what it is. Marriage is a joining of a man and a woman, period. bring on the insults.
So, Freedom1st,
You equate a gay person to a non-human? After all, human beings ARE part of the animal kingdom.
How can an animal sign a marriage license, Freedom? Most of them can't even hold pens, much less consciously consent by any legal definition.
But go on, I'm sure you have an answer.
For a lot of heterosexual Christian people it's not so much the idea of gays being joined in some "union", it's more a matter of wanting to keep the word "marriage" for themselves. They think they own it by way of their religion. Others consider homosexuality a sin AND "marriage" a god sanctioned rite and covenant and therefore cannot abide mixing the two.
I call them all busy body dolts. But that's just me.
Steve, the definition of marriage has changed a TON of times. Why is this one so scary to you?
LOL "pressure from the GOP"
Isn't that the same group who LOVED Dick "the-water-boarder" Cheney, pushed for re-election of the Bush/Cheney ticket, all while knowing Dickeys daughter was gay?
HYPOCRITES, all of them!
Obama/Biden....2012!!!
Right. Since animals are the same as people, gay or otherwise... This argument is so stupid it hardly warrants a response.
Feisty redhead........I have a question. Are you an employee of this website? I ask, because more times than not your post is the very first one listed when an article appears. Now how is that possible?
The main argument against is biblical proscriptions and biblical basis for marriage. But since cultures of all types and faiths enjoy state-sanctioned marriage, there is no real justification against it. Marriage is just a specific kind of contract. It used to be special because it was inviolate. However with the legalization of Divorce, it is now just a contract of limited impact. The only legitimate reasons anyone would be against it for homosexual partnerships is that they are either bigots or would personally benefit from some particular partnership being stopped, perhaps in probate for instance. And while bigotry is a legitimate human stance, it's not an admirable one.
Gay people have been around since the beginning of time.
In countries that have gay marriage, the social net is not deteriorating at all.
Don't fear gay marriage Republicans, it won't affect your marriages. You can't catch being gay.
The definition has been changed dozens of times over the last century. Typically for the better. Two hundred years ago marriage was male ownership of a woman of only the same race. I like the definition of marriage we use today more.
It is normal, but not common. In a given population it is normal to have about 5-10% of the individuals gay. This has always been the case.
I guess that depends upon the culture, time period, etc. Further, how is this relevant? Gay marriage won't effect my marriage (or any other straight marriages) in the least.
Yup, it is what it is. Two consenting adults who wish to commit to one another.
According to you. Thankfully, the majority of people in this nation disagree.
I have no desire to insult you. In fact, generally, the vast majority of insults are leveled by people of like mind to you.
I see church let out early for the conspiracy theorists... lol
I receive the same paycheck you do from MSNBC/Newsvine - check the earnings tab on your home page...
Most non-gay Americans do not want gays barging into any part of their lives or homes !
The F Readhead is a paid political hack !
Steve: Feisty gets early emails that tell her what topics will be posted soon, and she can have a response waiting when MSNBC publishes the article. She's not the only one who uses this tactic.
To Eric 913: The wall street journal article said Romney and the top campaign folks wanted the "gay guy" to stay on in spite of the bloggers. Stop being a liberal for a couple minutes and read the whole article.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304868004577378461292634678.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Now imnotlost, don't you think that's just a little bit paranoid?
Please give us a detailed explanation of how gays are barging into your life or home?
Bonus points awared for proper spelling & punctuation! ;o)
And you have the nerve to call me a hack? lmao
I guess they are scared to death that if they try bi,, they won't go back
Idunno, If their marriage is that weak the problem is themselves & they are just incapable by ideology of looking within
A severe inferiority complex they feel that intolerance & bullying can overcome
Arizona, most Muslim state in the US!
Go Jan! You need to grow your beard out!
The left just announced its desperation by finally turning on its pledge to support and defend traditional marriage.
The Marriage Corruption movement has shown itself to be a full frontal assault to the right of conscience and the free exercise thereof; the very 1st Amendment to the United States Constitution. These Marxist need to repeal the freedom to speak in opposition to their designs if they are to succeed and they know that they will have to obliterate the only thing standing between them and it; the freedom of religion.
Obama/Biden 2012:
"Pay no attention to that man behind the green curtain."
note:
there is no such thing as a "Gay People.' You folks act as though perverts are equivelant to the mythical Unicorn from antiquity.
LGBT
(L)esbian = Women who like to rub their reproductive argans against other women
(G)ay = Men who like to rub their reproductive argan against other men
(B)i-Sexual = People who like to rub their reproductive organ against everything.
(T)ransgender = Confused
Marriage is contract law. An animal cannot legally enter into a contract. Pretty clear, cut and dry.
I noticed that a lot of people have been equating gay people to animals. Yet animals survive on natural instinct. Yet being gay isn't "natural."
I'm not saying to go look up gay animal porn, but there is homosexuality outside the human species all over the animal kingdom. The first one that comes to mind is the dolphin (thanks, Ricky Gervais. lol)
Thumbs up ^.... Equal Rights...
www.wimp.com/nofear
No fear in the now.
Steve-3200687 Your post smells of Right Wing Nutty.
I don't care if two men or two women living next to me are married. It doesn't affect me in the least. Well.........maybe they'd take better care of their yard.......but otherwise it has no affect at all on my life. Let them have equal rights.
from; righteous eagles to drugged/ sex craved soiled eagles, to odd sea horses in a murky watered tub..mann, what in the HELL, is going on here ???...xxx
Feisty is a plant, a stooge, a hack, etc. Bidden is an embarrassment to BHO and Americans everywhere. Osama got it right. He would be a disaster as POTUS. BHO should change VP to insure his re-election. Hillary???? Can't miss with that team.
Mike
People are BORN that way, so I think it is at least natural to them.
I think it's time for everyone to get their noses out of bedrooms that are not theirs. Marriage is a civil contract between two people who wish to share their lives together. Without that piece of paper from the state you can have all the church weddings you like and they're not legal and will not be recognized in a court of law as a marriage with any and all the rights of a married couple. Nor will children from a union not recognized by the state be considered legitimate.
Law
If someone is barging into your home they are most likely not gay, just a drug addict.
Anyone seen lawdog?
I'm waiting for their explanation...
Steve-3200687
Marriage for thousands of years has been the cornerstone of the family and has been a societal joining on men with women and vice versa.
I am not sure what small back woods place you are from, but the country I live in the heterosexual marriages are at better than 51% divorce rate. So I think that the cornerstone of the family that you speak of is crumbling fast. Samesex couples with children have a high rate of staying together and creating a more stable family setting for there children.
"but the country I live in the heterosexual marriages are at better than 51% divorce rate."
You folks are completely dependent upon balled faced lies in defense of your depravity. At its peak the divorce rate was around 31%. The number you reference was extrapolated from two separate data sets with one being the total number of divorces over a period of time vs the total number of marriages in a given year.
You folks really should avoid using an argument in defense of your depravity that is the equivelant of saying "well johnny jumped off the bridge..."
lawdog::: Please explain this statement of yours:
Most non-gay Americans do not want gays barging into any part of their lives or homes !
How the flip would a gay barge into any part of someone's life or their home? I knew some homosexuals, and they didn't barge into my home or my life.
Or is your life or your home so dysfunctional that a gay could barge in?
I'm out there buyin votes - just buyin votes...
@JOregon
The only people who bang my door years after years are saleman, deliveryman and religious groups. I have never have the chance of seeing any gay/lesbian banging on my door and tell me what to do.
The reading for today is JUDE
KJV is good but easy reading is in "The Message"
Written thousands of years ago it is amazing how much it is like what is going on in our world today.
Prepare yourselves.... oh wait i have to prepare too!!
What "rights" are gays missing out on? I have no more rights as anyone else to marry the same sex, as I (or anyone else) has a right to marry his or hers own dad, mother, sister or the neighbors dog... What rights are we talking about that aren't already equal to all? Now If you're talking about PANDERING politicians on an election year looking for votes. Or state officials looking to make a few bucks off of a license fee (new tax). Or an attempt to make others accept a sick mental disorder perversion for what ever your twisted needs are. Then you may be talking a little truth with what is really going on here. But lets ease up with the tired out old spin of making it a rights issue. Anything goes! right? How disgustingly sick and Pathetic this world is becomig! Sad!
dirty little secrets, & a Big Bunch of just; LIES..the closet door is Open, & Politics is Wanting Votes, No Matter what..the House of ill- repute doesn't Care..just close the door & let them do the debauchery thing, and NOT look back..for that has been told, again & again..to be a good Leader, One does Not behave as they do.........
JOregon, the only people ringing my door bell, alway while I'm having dinner with my family, are the Mormons. Are the Mormons gay? None of my gay friends ever interupt my family dinner unless it's an emergency!
I fully support the homosexuals' right to be as miserable as the rest of us.
face it RandyEK, you have NO argument other than name-calling and lies. nothing but your personal hatred and bigotry. probably a deeply closeted and repressed gay man yourself.
learning English might help too
Gee danwill, your own English needs some work too; sentences begin with a capital letter....everytime!
Hatred and bigotry have nothing to do with it; biology and common sense have everything to do with it. Any rational person can examine the male and female anatomies and plainly see how they are designed to function....naturally.
Steve-3200687 -
"no one, but the left wing nuties, said it threatens traditional marriage"
No. In fact, if by 'left wing nuties" [sic], you mean people that don't oppose gay marriage or civil union, then exactly the opposite is true.
The Conservative position is that it threatens the sanctity of traditional marriage. The other side, or to use your terminology, the "left wing nuties "[sic], disagree with that idea.
So, exactly the opposite is true.
danwill,
Your rant paints you as a hypocrite.
In a recent - Nov. 2011 - 1st Circuit Court of Appeals finding the three jurist panel noted "Plaintiffs own expert witnesses could not even agree opon the definitions of the words Lesbian, Gay, Homosexual, Identity, or Orientation."
You folks might as well declare yourselves to be 'Goony-ga-ga's' for all the good it does.
The word "Homosexual" was coined in 1887 Germany by one individual in reference to a new construct; that of a lifelong commitment to same-gender sexual intercourse. The word quickly fell into disfavor and did not resurface until the early 1970's.
You are incapable of finding justification for your depravity in all of recorded human history so you have place your hopes in the bastardization of language just to lend an appearance of acceptability to your proclivity.
They call it an education; get one.
Actually the majority of Americans (53%) support marriage equality today. The bigots are now in the minority.
And 71% of Catholics support marriage equality, perhaps because they are forced to understand the difference between marriage and holy matrimony.
Marriage Corruption movement = Repuglican party
It's all about equal rights for all - for ALL. Not for who you decide you want to have the same rights as you.
JeezusismyDog - your name calling shows how little intelligence and integrity you have. It's important for you to call someone a name - making you feel superior to the person you've put down. But see, you're not. I have friends who are homosexual - they didn't choose to be born that way but they are. They are better people than you could ever aspire to be. Many are in committed relationships and have been for years. Your bigotry and hatred is really what is SICK.
Don't know what shows you're watching but I don't see homosexuals often in the shows I watch. You must be searching for them just so you can complain.
You really need to get a life and keep your nose out of other people's business. My guess is you'd be happier - but maybe not. I think your hatred gives you a purpose. How sad.
ErinNJ
Corruption: impairment of integrity, virtue, or moral principle
When you apply the English language as it is intended it does not paint a pretty picture of your proclivity.
Proclivity: an inclination or predisposition toward something; especially: a strong inherent inclination toward something objectionable
Pervert: a unusual or abnormal sexual act that is habitual
Depravity: a corrupt act or practice
Decadent: marked by decay or decline
Heathen: strange, uncivilized
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
LOL! Give me a break. If people worried more about what the folks they would even consider voting for did our country wouldn't be in such a mess.
It is our President who has folded on this issue. He places re-election above all else and has so from the day he took the oath. Of course he will come out in favor AFTER the election. Well, only if he gets re-upped of course, if he doesn't he won't risk his chance at a second term down the road. Does anyone actually believe this is something he would not be in favor of? Too bad he lacks the leadership to stand up for what he thinks is right.
Why should any rational person really care what Biden thinks or is "comfortable" with, be it gay marriage or anything at all ? Pander for votes often, Joe ?
Here's 10 reasons to oppose "gay marriage":
1. It Is Not Marriage
Calling something marriage does not make it marriage. Marriage has always been a covenant between a man and a woman which is by its nature ordered toward the procreation and education of children and the unity and wellbeing of the spouses.
The promoters of same-sex “marriage” propose something entirely different. They propose the union between two men or two women. This denies the self-evident biological, physiological, and psychological differences between men and women which find their complementarity in marriage. It also denies the specific primary purpose of marriage: the perpetuation of the human race and the raising of children.
Two entirely different things cannot be considered the same thing.
2. It Violates Natural Law
Marriage is not just any relationship between human beings. It is a relationship rooted in human nature and thus governed by natural law.
Natural law’s most elementary precept is that “good is to be done and pursued, and evil is to be avoided.” By his natural reason, man can perceive what is morally good or bad for him. Thus, he can know the end or purpose of each of his acts and how it is morally wrong to transform the means that help him accomplish an act into the act’s purpose.
Any situation which institutionalizes the circumvention of the purpose of the sexual act violates natural law and the objective norm of morality.
Being rooted in human nature, natural law is universal and immutable. It applies to the entire human race, equally. It commands and forbids consistently, everywhere and always. Saint Paul taught in the Epistle to the Romans that the natural law is inscribed on the heart of every man. (Rom. 2:14-15)
3. It Always Denies a Child Either a Father or a Mother
It is in the child’s best interests that he be raised under the influence of his natural father and mother. This rule is confirmed by the evident difficulties faced by the many children who are orphans or are raised by a single parent, a relative, or a foster parent.
The unfortunate situation of these children will be the norm for all children of a same-sex “marriage.” A child of a same-sex “marriage” will always be deprived of either his natural mother or father. He will necessarily be raised by one party who has no blood relationship with him. He will always be deprived of either a mother or a father role model.
Same-sex “marriage” ignores a child’s best interests.
4. It Validates and Promotes the Homosexual Lifestyle
In the name of the “family,” same-sex “marriage” serves to validate not only such unions but the whole homosexual lifestyle in all its bisexual and transgender variants.
Civil laws are structuring principles of man's life in society. As such, they play a very important and sometimes decisive role in influencing patterns of thought and behavior. They externally shape the life of society, but also profoundly modify everyone’s perception and evaluation of forms of behavior.
Legal recognition of same-sex “marriage” would necessarily obscure certain basic moral values, devalue traditional marriage, and weaken public morality.
5. It Turns a Moral Wrong into a Civil Right
Homosexual activists argue that same-sex “marriage” is a civil rights issue similar to the struggle for racial equality in the 1960s.
This is false.
First of all, sexual behavior and race are essentially different realities. A man and a woman wanting to marry may be different in their characteristics: one may be black, the other white; one rich, the other poor; or one tall, the other short. None of these differences are insurmountable obstacles to marriage. The two individuals are still man and woman, and thus the requirements of nature are respected.
Same-sex “marriage” opposes nature. Two individuals of the same sex, regardless of their race, wealth, stature, erudition or fame, will never be able to marry because of an insurmountable biological impossibility.
Secondly, inherited and unchangeable racial traits cannot be compared with non-genetic and changeable behavior. There is simply no analogy between the interracial marriage of a man and a woman and the “marriage” between two individuals of the same sex.
6. It Does Not Create a Family but a Naturally Sterile Union
Traditional marriage is usually so fecund that those who would frustrate its end must do violence to nature to prevent the birth of children by using contraception. It naturally tends to create families.
On the contrary, same-sex “marriage” is intrinsically sterile. If the “spouses” want a child, they must circumvent nature by costly and artificial means or employ surrogates. The natural tendency of such a union is not to create families.
Therefore, we cannot call a same-sex union marriage and give it the benefits of true marriage.
7. It Defeats the State’s Purpose of Benefiting Marriage
One of the main reasons why the State bestows numerous benefits on marriage is that by its very nature and design, marriage provides the normal conditions for a stable, affectionate, and moral atmosphere that is beneficial to the upbringing of children—all fruit of the mutual affection of the parents. This aids in perpetuating the nation and strengthening society, an evident interest of the State.
Homosexual “marriage” does not provide such conditions. Its primary purpose, objectively speaking, is the personal gratification of two individuals whose union is sterile by nature. It is not entitled, therefore, to the protection the State extends to true marriage.
8. It Imposes Its Acceptance on All Society
By legalizing same-sex “marriage,” the State becomes its official and active promoter. The State calls on public officials to officiate at the new civil ceremony, orders public schools to teach its acceptability to children, and punishes any state employee who expresses disapproval.
In the private sphere, objecting parents will see their children exposed more than ever to this new “morality,” businesses offering wedding services will be forced to provide them for same-sex unions, and rental property owners will have to agree to accept same-sex couples as tenants.
In every situation where marriage affects society, the State will expect Christians and all people of good will to betray their consciences by condoning, through silence or act, an attack on the natural order and Christian morality.
9. It Is the Cutting Edge of the Sexual Revolution
In the 1960s, society was pressured to accept all kinds of immoral sexual relationships between men and women. Today we are seeing a new sexual revolution where society is being asked to accept sodomy and same-sex “marriage.”
If homosexual “marriage” is universally accepted as the present step in sexual “freedom,” what logical arguments can be used to stop the next steps of incest, pedophilia, bestiality, and other forms of unnatural behavior? Indeed, radical elements of certain “avant garde” subcultures are already advocating such aberrations.
The railroading of same-sex “marriage” on the American people makes increasingly clear what homosexual activist Paul Varnell wrote in the Chicago Free Press:
"The gay movement, whether we acknowledge it or not, is not a civil rights movement, not even a sexual liberation movement, but a moral revolution aimed at changing people's view of homosexuality."
10. It Offends God
This is the most important reason. Whenever one violates the natural moral order established by God, one sins and offends God. Same-sex “marriage” does just this. Accordingly, anyone who professes to love God must be opposed to it.
Marriage is not the creature of any State. Rather, it was established by God in Paradise for our first parents, Adam and Eve. As we read in the Book of Genesis: “God created man in His image; in the Divine image he created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them, saying: ‘Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it.’” (Gen. 1:28-29)
The same was taught by Our Savior Jesus Christ: “From the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female. For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother; and shall cleave to his wife.” (Mark 10:6-7).
Genesis also teaches how God punished Sodom and Gomorrah for the sin of homosexuality: “The Lord rained down sulphurous fire upon Sodom and Gomorrah. He overthrew those cities and the whole Plain, together with the inhabitants of the cities and the produce of the soil.” (Gen. 19:24-25)
I Corinthians 6:8-10 – “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor HOMOSEXUALS, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.”
The right of conscience and the free exercise thereof as expressly provided for in the very 1st Amendment of the United States Constitution dictates that not only are we allowed to vote or conscience, but we are guaranteed that said vote will be counted as equal to every other voted cast on a given topic.
Oh, right! Did you hear about the woman that was brutally attacked by three gay men? The first two held her down while the third one did her hair and redecorated the living room!
JeezusismyDog -
You're gay.
You think you're fooling people, but you're not. And the more you talk about it, the more people will catch on. I'm sure this is no secret to many people who know you. You may be fooling some people but not everyone. There are those who suspect, and others who are certain. Some of these people tell other people and compare notes. Others keep it to themselves.
This isn't uncommon among those with a lack awareness of social dynamics and communication. If you really want to people to think you're straight, then ZIP-IT.
Good Luck
I wonder how far and wide we will need to expand the field of marriage rights (children, pets, barn yard animals ....blow up dolls) before we can find anyone or anything that could stand to be married to Frigid.
It's alright Feisty. The baggers are miffed because "Goober" died today. So you have to pardon them if they're nastier than usual.
@Mike S.-2262427
An even better example is the bonobo , our closet relative in the animal kingdom. Hell they're even "gayer" than we are and it hasn't caused any problems for them.
Ain't that a shame - may Goober RIP!
Plenty of Otis the drunks have stepped right up to fill the void!
Sure don't take much to set them off! lol
I asked reasonable questions in my comment #1 - after 68+ comments later so far not a one of these homophobes have provided a coherant response.
Guess I shouldn't be too surprised!
In honor of the new French socialist president, " I fart in your general direction"
When it comes to wining votes, money and power anything is normal, even if they have to hide behind the bible. Now, if a man has a hole to poo and a vigina, then please claim you are a woman. if a woman has a hole to poo and a stick to pee, then claim you are a man. if not then let' make it normal for humans and other animals.
3thirty3
Speak for yourself. I do not agree with any of YOUR "reasons."
You people...if you're against gay marriage, don't get married to someone of the same sex. Otherwise, keep your backwards opinions to yourself. Times are changing, and nobody cares what you think anymore.
Its so strange to me that some people are so worried about "promoting the homosexual lifestyle" and such nonsense. Personally, I'm straight and being around gay people or knowing that they can get married will never change my sexual orientation. I guess I can understand how people who are not as confident in their sexual orientation might be concerned, though.
To all those who want to throw the bible in it, remember, it is not a sin to divorce, but it is a sin to re-marry someone else. Perhaps all states should issue only civil union documents and base any civil responsibility and benefits equally to all based on that and leave the marriage certificate with any responsibility or benefits based on that up to the church.
@Chicken Squared -
They're not his/her reasons - it's a copy and paste. It's spam.
"Here's my thought on the matter....er...someone else's thought on the matter."
That's an example of the inability to think for oneself - allowing someone else to think for one, and merely subscribing to that thought. It's common - not respectable - but common.
Chicken Squared - Of course you don't agree with them, because the truth hurts doesn't it?
@Feisty
1) There is no such thing as a "Gay people"; changing the meaning of marriage to include a reference to the mythical unicorn -so to speak - devalues marriage from a public good into a government entitlement program.
2) Severing marriage from the laws of nature changes the public rational for marriage - procreation
1) Marriage in the United States predates the American Government; so allowing government to change the meaning of what a marriage is will be a dramatic expansion of Government into our private lives.
And before you jump to the go to "and what about those that are incapable of having children?" Straw-man response please note that the courts have already noted that this arguments "amounts to nothing more than a theoretical abnormality that has absolutley no effect on the traditional rational for marriage."
Zen - Did I copy and paste it, yes. Is it spam, no. Do I completely agree with all 10 of those point, yes. Can I think for myself, absolutely! Your innuendo is that you can not incorporate any other's writings or teaching or you are not "thinking for yourself." That's ridiculous. When was the last time, if ever, you have a completely new and unique thought? Oh, by the way, I'm thinking for myself right now and my thought is that I need to pray for your wretched soul.
@3thirty3 -
The truth? You don't have the reasoning skills to claim a proposition is necessarily true or not or whether that proposition is supported by valid reason. That list is ridiculously fallacious - the propositions are not supportable and the non-bold text that follows them do not support them. and copy and pasting text whole-cloth like that is called spamming - quoting whole articles and long lists, etc. I didn't mean that you are a bot or something.
@RandyEK -
"There is no such thing as a "Gay people"
There definitely ARE gay people.
"changing the meaning of marriage to include a reference to the mythical unicorn devalues marriage from a public good into a government entitlement program."
Gay people are not mythical, and allowing gay couples the civil liberties as straight couples is not an entitlement program, unless you think straight marriage is an entitlement program, which it is not.
"Severing marriage from the laws of nature changes the public rational for marriage - procreation"
Marriage isn't natural. It is a social and cultural convention. No other species marries, it is an artificial human social convention, whose definition is not absolute, universal, or timeless.
"Marriage in the United States predates the American Government"
There was no United States before the American governement.
"so allowing government to change the meaning of what a marriage is"
The government defines what it recognizes as legal marital status. Recognition of same-sex couples as legally a legal union doesn't change the meaning of marriage.
Same sex couples can already marry in every state in ceremonies by ministers that will perform that ceremony for them, but the legal union is not recognized in all states.
The issue isn't marriage. Marriage is a religious ceremony. The government can not define marriage for a church or a minister or prohibit them from any ceremony, including the marriage of same sex couples. The issue is about the legal recognition of the civil union of same sex couples.
"a dramatic expansion of Government into our private lives."
The legal status of a couple you will never meet is is no way an intrusion into your private life or anyone elses.
The real intrusion into someone's private life is from homophobes who want to dictate who can couple with whom.
And before you jump to the go to "and what about those that are incapable of having children?" Straw-man response"
...as if you've ever had L&R in your life, or even know what it means.
That's not a straw man or what straw man means
the courts have already noted that this arguments "amounts to nothing more than a theoretical abnormality that has absolutley no effect on the traditional rational for marriage."
No, they haven't - and that's not a real quote from any court decision.
Legal recognition of same sex unions is already recognized in all 50 states if those unions were performed in states which recognize same sex unions. So, if a gay couple marries in WA or NY, then Alabama recognizes it as a legal union, for the same reason the state must recognize all marriage licenses, birth certificates, driver's licenses, etc - the Full Faith and Credit Clause.
So, you can complain all you like and try to throw together some crappy argument or whatever, but it doesn't matter - it's a done deal and there's nothing you can do about it. So, go live your life and try to have a good time with your friends and family, because life is too short to devote so much effort into freaking out about what tax form some couple you will never meet uses to file their taxes.
@rednawt
Yeah and there's more than one mention of polygamy in the Old Testament as well. But of course neither side of this debate wants to talk about that issue.
#1 marriage has been around before christianity was even a word...
#2 yes, the greeks, like the athenians were allowed to be gay, a true democracy...
#3 if you think gays should keep it to themselves, keep your religion in your house as well..
#4 no one cares about your religion
#5 you arnt people's mom or dad, even if you are, how much say do you think you have in it? much less you outsiders
#6 morality is doing whats right reguardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told reguardless of what is right
until you religious brickwall give up trying to implement yourselves into people's homes, please, help people look down on your religion as primitive, god fearing and hated group...cuz right now, you guys arnt proving yourselves otherwise...enjoy playing god, and go around condemning people...regressive people r regressive...
Zen609
There is no such thing as a "Gay People."
You might as well reefer to yourselves as Goony-ga-ga's for all the good it does. Your "no it isn't" and "so what?" responses are excuses; not rationals.
The existence of the LGBT demonstrates this well known fact; and even the courts are on to the fact that these miscreants cannot agree upon the definitions of the words they use as self descriptives.
Procreation is governed by the laws of nature; and the history and tradition of the United States dictates recognition of this well known fact.
"Procreation is rational basis to limit marriage to one man one woman pairings."
No. 3:10-cv-1750 (VLB)
"Immutability. Suspect classes involve “immutable characteristic[s]” that are both determinable at birth and determined by the accident of birth.
Yet, as Plaintiffs’own expert admitted, (i) “[l]ooking at a newborn,” one cannot tell “what that child’s sexual orientation is going to be” and (ii) a significant percentage of gays and lesbians believe they exercised some or a great deal of choice in determining their sexuality.
Plaintiffs’ misunderstanding of both the nature of legislative facts and immutable characteristics is on full display"
The government defined what constitutes a marriage in 1853, reiterated it in Loving v. Virginia, and again in 1972 Baker v. Evans, followed by DOMA in 1996; all of which are consistent with the 1853 ruling that is based on:
All of which are governed by the laws of nature and natures God dating back to the Declaration of Independence. DOMA protects the rights of states to deny acknowledgement of Faux Marriages from other states.
Using a "Theoretical Abnormality" in defense of your rediculous assertions is a "informal fallacy."
sockurmouth
So now you are out to dictate what is moral? Where do you derive this sense of morality you write of?
All systems of beliefs are religions. Secularism is a religion; it is a Godless religion, but it is a religion non-the-less.
"It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins." Benjamin Franklin
Even Ignorance can be a religion!
Moral:
1a: of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior : ethical <moral judgments> b: expressing or teaching a conception of right behavior <a moral poem> c: conforming to a standard of right behavior d: sanctioned by or operative on one's conscience or ethical judgment <a moral obligation> e: capable of right and wrong action <a moral agent>
2: probable though not proved : virtual <a moral certainty>
3: perceptual or psychological rather than tangible or practical in nature or effect <a moral victory> <moral support>
Morality:
1a: a moral discourse, statement, or lesson b: a literary or other imaginative work teaching a moral lesson
2a: a doctrine or system of moral conduct bplural: particular moral principles or rules of conduct
3: conformity to ideals of right human conduct
4: moral conduct : virtue
@RandyEK
The bulk of your post is a good example of the dangers of blindly spamming copy and paste quotes from conservative blogs that you don't understand:
You've quoted from an article discussing Perry v Brown decision. This doesn't support your whatever point you were trying to make, but refutes it.
Perry v Brown is the recent case in which the 9th Circuit Court overturned Prop 8, which is the referendum to amend California's Constitution to define marriage as a union of one man and one woman.
So, if you were looking to quote court decisions to support whatever point it is your trying to make - this definitely wasn't the article to quote.
"A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position."
I know what a straw man is - the problem is that you don't. What you referred to as a straw man argument, isn't.
"Using a "Theoretical Abnormality" in defense of your rediculous assertions is a "informal fallacy."
I didn't use any "theoretical abnormality", and in case you haven't been keeping track of the structure, I have defended any assertion. In fact, I haven't had to because you haven't attacked any of my assertions.
And "theoretical abnormality" isn't an informal fallacy.
"informal fallacy."
No, it's not - you cut and pasted that, too, and you don't know what that means either.
If you want to challenge any assertion I've made, feel free. So far, you haven't. If you did, you wouldn't just C&P "informal fallacy."
I don't know who you think you're fooling - I'm not a ditch-digger, and I know you don't know the first thing about L&R, and I'm not the only one. So, stop BSing like a dilettante - it's unbecoming - and you're not fooling anyone anyway.
In closing, Legal recognition of same sex union in one state + Full Faith and Credit Clause = Legal recognition in all 50 states.
Q.E.D. (heh)
We've got bigger issues in this nation to address than gay marriage. Come on liberals, don't keep trying to move the eye off the ball. We're not stupid.
There are 2.2 million fewer jobs than when Obama was elected.
There are a record number of people on food stamps and other government assistance since Obama was elected.
Gas prices have stayed doubled since Obama was elected.
Food prices are up 15-25% since Obama was elected.
The typical household energy prices are up 15% since Obama was elected (because he's killing coal, and then sending millions to failed Big Green energy companies like Solyndra in that failed 2009 "stimulus" bill that was to have kept unemployment from going above 8%...what were the numbers this week???).
GDP was growing at over 3% when Obama was elected. Now it averages 1.5%.
The year Obama was elected 88% of college graduates found a job in the field they chose. The Class Of 2012 will see just 54% of graduates finding a "real" job that they went to college for.
Obama has spent more in three and a half years than Bush spent in all eight of his (including Bush not vetoing one single Democrat bill after Democrats took complete control of Congress in January 2007...NOT ONE!). And that includes both wars to date...that DEMOCRATS voted for approval of.
So, you liberal Democrats keep supporting Obama. America is waking up. Obama has lost a lot of the student support. Football spiking over getting Osama, that was years in the making under GWB policies like waterboarding that Obama was against, is not going to get a second term.
Obama is America's modern Jimmy Carter.
My right wing brother-in-law hated gays out loud.
He argued until he was blue in the face how gay marriage was wrong and how it threatened America.
His daughter announced she was gay.
It's okay by him now. All of it.
Seek to understand, people. These are just people... like you and me... just trying to live a happy life.
Jhawke
Thanks for the list.
Just add "because the last administration and big money took our economy to it's knees" at the end of each line and you got it!
Thanks again for the reminders!
Democrats took over Congress after the 2006 mid-term elections. Republicans effectively lost ALL control of Washington after that, and they STILL do not have control of Washington. Yes, they got back the House from Nanny Pelosi after the 2010 mid-terms, but they only have a 56% majority. Democrats still control 2/3 of Washington as they have since January 2007. Where we are today is because of DEMOCRAT polices, not GOP policies. Sorry you can't handle reality.
And all I need to do to prove it is bring up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and Bush and fellow Republicans like McCain in 2004 trying to increase regulations on that "fair housing" BS you Democrat liberals fell in love with that "massaged" banks to give loans to losers and deadbeats (your typical Democrat voter) who otherwise would not have gotten a home loan. None other than Barney Frank and other Democrat liberals said NO to that because, as Fwank said, "these two entities...are not in any financial difficulty." He had a gay lover that was a top official at Freddie Mac, but why question that cronyism, right? Right.
"Facts.....are stubborn things." --John Adams when defending the British soldiers accused of murder at the Boston Massacre.
Obama paraphrased quote: "If things aren't better in four years, I don't deserve re-election."
Bingo. We are WORSE off, not better off. The nation cannot afford another four years of Obama blaming the previous administration (of which last two years being run entirely under Democrat Congress rule). The days of the media trumping this guy up on a pedestal like some sort of god (liberal media quote, not mine http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kyle-drennen/2009/06/05/newsweek-s-evan-thomas-obama-sort-god) are over. Even college kids are running from him. Obama's "forward" campaign term does not bode well for his record, and that's a fact.
We're not stupid.
Mr. Biden, after hearing what you said, we are all GAY (-happy, that is).
We are one Gay Nation Under God, or Gay God?
Reminds me of the "Dick" and his openly gay daughter or maybe Newt's gay sister...
@RandyEK,
The word "homosexual" was not coined until 1889. No Bible translation, until about TWENTY YEARS AGO, used the term "homosexual" in that verse. It was always "sexually immoral."
People like you always want to say that, "This is the word of God, and it's infallible and unchangeable," and then you go and change it to suit your "needs." God is angry with you and your ilk.
How's Joe's wife feel about that and rumor has it Joe is also for poligamy, the practice of having multiple political positions on the same issue.
First of all - Perhaps Feisty is 1st on these posts because she gets up earlier than the rest of you (I mean that figuratively and in reality). However, if you left leaning wing-nuts want to think it is part of some vast Right wing conspiracy, it's about what we expect of you.
Secondly - Why is gay marriage a problem for you? I understand that you oppose it - so what. What is the gay agenda? You haters on this post are nutty. Someone that I come in contact with who is gay (married or not) does not affect my life unless I want them to. I have some great gay friends who are fun, kind, intelligent, have the same interests as I do (reading, movies, animal rights, politics) but GUESS WHAT - I have heterosexual friends whom I care about for the same reasons. We don't sit around talking about what goes on in the bedroom but apparently you anti-gay nuts discuss this quite a bit.
Love is love. If you find it - you are a lucky person, indeed.
When I read threads like this I always notice that the right-wing responses can be summed with one fundamental emotion, fear. In fact the vast majority of rightwing responses on ANY political subject can be summed up the same way.
Take any position they have on most every subject and watch how quickly it reduces to fear of some sort.
Guns? Women? Illegals? Gays? Drugs? The poor? Europe? Health care? Foreign policy? Liberals? Crime? etc.
Unless you are in immediate danger, fear is irrational in most cases. And that's rightwingers for ya, irrational and usually proud of it.
Joe is a brother!
what "depravity" would that be, randyEK? I'm straight, I have no interest in sex with someone of the same gender
I'm simply not concerned with what OTHER PEOPLE do with their lives or whom they choose to either sleep with or spend the rest of their lives with. (and it sure the eff is NOT YOUR EFFING BUSINESS!) what I really don't understand is why you think the GOVERNMENT should INTRUDE into the bedrooms of individuals
your "point" about procreation is moot, since our resources are already being strained by our current population. we should start actively discouraging procreation beyond replacement levels by eliminating tax deductions for more than one child per individual (two per couple) and phasing out, then eliminating entitlement benefits beyond one child per person or two per couple
and thank you for doing such a spectacular job of proving my point about your hatred and name-calling
Steve, so are you saying that hate organizations like NOM and 1 million moms are left swinging votes? Are you also stating that all these bigoted religous tax free groups (churches) are all left wing? Too funny, and way to fox news for us. Sorry buddy, but the hate against the homosexuals in this country is all the uneducated religious right wing group of neanderthals. I'm sick and tired of the persecution from the church that screams its unholy word against other Americans, yet screams persecution when people fight back. The hypocrisy of these uneducated neanderthals is astounding. If they want to interfere with the "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" of other Americans, than they should all lose their tax free status, and their very own "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" by having these same gays and lesbians be allowed to dictate their life. Problem solved.
It's difficult to tell if Leftylibdems are faux intellectuals or hypocrites, the symptoms are much the same. No need to rush to Sodom or Gomorrah over homos or same-sex marriage. Just stand firmly on Darwinian ground. Homos are anti-evolution, of course, since they are unable to procreate and thereby pass the "homo" gene to posterity. Evolutionary theory thus predicts the eventual extinction that confers no survival advantage. Of course, modern social forces conspire to allow homos to recruit from the heterosexual pool to counter Darwinian theory. None of this matters to leftylibdems who adulterate science to suit their political and social agenda.
Those who understand and respect the contributions and limits of science will find the leftylibdem's opinions rather entertaining since homos currently represent, and must necessarily always represent, an insignificant ratio of homo sapiens. The "gay" issue may be fairly viewed as an irritant to wellness or a bit of skew in the normal curve lacking any long-term effect of significance. When the leftylibdems tire of pushing against Darwin, homos will quietly go the way of the dodo bird.
We're also FABULOUS dressers and make a mean souffle!
It's too bad I wasn't around yesterday when all of this was going on. It's nice to see Feisty at the top commentor of this poll once again( It's obvious she works for MSNBC). To cover all points;
Not all Catholics are up for gay marriages; those that do haven't read their bibles in years.
Second, Christians don't think that animals will become next to be legitimized, after gay marriages( we think you liberals will get rid of the stigma of incest first), so that lie is getting pretty old. Although, we already see that beastiality is up if you ever turn on the news ( remember the man giving oral sex to a horse).
Third, just because you say gay marriage is okay doesn't mean it is. There are so many people whose ideas change on a constant basis that it is not unusual for some ideal to change as well. Something you should know: Christians will never back down on this because it is SIN, SO GET OVER IT. Excusing SIN is not going to change the fact. The bible states it is sin. Jesus states it is as sin. You don't like it, well that's too bad. The real christians don't need your approval. All of your debating is not going to change our minds. If we have gay people in our midst, we pray for their deliverance. They are bound to this desire. They need our help. Homosexuality is the only sin, where you want to think it is okay. Alcoholism is sin also, but it not seen as okay. Drug addiction is sin also, but is not seen as okay. Incest( even if consensual, like homosexuality), rape, bestiality, are seen as SIN, AND IT IS NOT OKAY.
71% of Catholics support marriage equality. Bigots like you are in the minority, just like those who still oppose mixed-race marriage.
Shrek - that is a misrepresentation of the facts
Only 43% support "marriage". The 31% are okay if some other term is used. which when added to the 22% that say no way, 53% of catholic don't want to see "marriage" associated with same sex couples.
http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=15355
Unhappy: Above you write "Not all Catholics are up for gay marriages; those that do haven't read their bibles in years." So I take it you personally know all these hundreds of millions of people and keep up with the frequency with which they read the Bible?
Joe Biden is only partly right. "Government marriage" is nothing but a tool for social control and exploitation and has no place in a free society. People should be free to marry as they are free to practice religion: without government interference and discrimination. It is none of the government's business. Abolish it.
I keep waiting for one of the idiot righty bigot baggers to post "I'm sick of the gays being shoved down my throat!!!"
F---- Redhead
Dear hack,
Lawdog is in singular form, not plural.
But other than that, you can demand all you want, I don't think you deserve an explanation. Why don't you use your fairytale imagination that you use in all your political rants and try to impress yourself.
P.S. Don't fall off the barstool, you might hurt yourself. Obama needs every vote he can get, even the ones he's paying for !
DB, YOU have misrepresented the facts:
http://publicreligion.org/research/2011/03/for-catholics-open-attitudes-on-gay-issues/
hey lawdog, do you actually have anything intelligent to say? or are you just going to prove your childishness with a bunch of kiddee insults?
and who are the ones coming up with an imaginary friend to wave around at those who do things that they think are "yucky"?
if you really were the "Constitutional Conservative" that you misrepresent yourself as, then you would recognize that the government has no place interfering one way or the other on the private and personal subject of marriage
I live next to a couple of lesbians who both really dislike what Obama is doing to the country! They will vote for Romney and are not worried their 'rights' will be taken away! As much as the liberals would like to make it into another class warfare issue... I'm not sure it's going to work for them!
Bigots run amok! Again! That said, if I were in Vegas, I would bet the anti-gay amendment passes. Reason being, I'm in my late sixties now and I have seen a dozen or more social and economic problems that were easy to solve fail to be solved. The reason is (a) the the lack of education of the american people, and (b) the refusal of education by the american people. In other words, the absolute, mind-boggling stupidity of the american people. who continually prefer superstitions they "learn" before they are ten years old to anything else.
This is an incredibly simple problem to solve and to fail to solve it is to deny people rights guaranteed them by the constitution. Yet we have so many ninth century, lizard-brained, christo-quacks in this country who call themselves "the real americans" yet continually thwart the constitution - and try to legislate in violation of it - that we cannot get anywhere. These christo-quacks are driven solely by ignorance, superstition, fear and hatred yet the rest of the country puts up with them solely because they are denying the rights of only 7-10% of the population.
It is truly unbelievable to watch so many citizens of the U.S. in the 21st century act like a bunch of illiterate islamic jihadists and writhe around in Epic Fail mode.
if I were in Vegas, I would bet the anti-gay amendment passes. Reason being, I'm in my late sixties now and I have seen a couple dozen social and economic problems that were easy to solve fail to be solved. The reason is (a) the the lack of education of the american people, and (b) the refusal of education by the american people. In other words, the absolute, mind-boggling stupidity of the american people. who continually prefer superstitions they "learn" before they are ten years old to anything else.
This is an incredibly simple problem to solve and to fail to solve it is to deny people rights guaranteed them by the constitution. Yet we have so many ninth century, lizard brained, christo-quacks in this country who call themselves "the real americans" yet continually thwart the constitution that we cannot get anywhere on it. These christo-quacks are driven solely by ignorance, superstition, fear and hatred yet the rest of the country puts up with them solely because they are denying the rights of only 5-10% of the population.
It is truly unbelievable to watch the U.S. in the 21st century act like a bunch of illiterate islamic jihadists and writhe around in Epic Fail mode.
sorry for double post - tried to delete duplicate matter, delete key didn't work.
So this site needs two things: collapse software that works properly, and code that intereprets key strokes properly during edit mode. But hoping for this is a fantasy, like that guy poking his unicorn.
This site needs a whole lot of things - in the two years since Newsvine took over First Read, other then the ability to add avatar photo's Newsvine has done NOTHING to improve the blog!
Two years is a lifetime when it comes to technology...
"I wuz against it before with Barrack, but NOW I, and we, is for it".
Yeah, righto Mr. Bideeno.
Yep, Flyeisty.....can you still use your "party line" phone properly ?
Redhead
I'm actually pretty happy with this site, other than the collapsing of threads.
Wish you wouldn't post first you almost always get collapsed then the rest of the thread goes away. The "new" link sends you nowhere and you have to begin searching for the next fresh post.
I hope MSNBC doesn't go the Facebook route, as they have in some places. I have no intention of signing up for facebook, also it seems since the facebook connection there have been more spammers.
Compared to FOX where posting the name "Rupert Murdoch" sends your post to the Neverland of "Moderator must approve".
Or CNN where the same fate awaits those that use words such as "Circumstance" or if you quote the book of "Titus" from the bible.
Please help keep this flawed but quality site alive.
geeze, I hate clowns that post the same crap over and over (like "einstein", LOL, talk about arrogant)
American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, and National Association of Social Workers
http://allpsych.com/journal/homosexuality.html, citing the American Psychological Association and the removal of homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Disorders in 1973
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_mental_health.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_psychology
Two years is a lifetime when it comes to technology...
and listening to your wrath
Sounds like you can't read or understand a simple poll. It quite clearly shows that 71% of Catholics support marriage equality under our secular law.
However, while the poll is a bit vague it also might be interpreted that 43% support equality for gays under the religious ritual of holy matrimony. Here's the poll:
That proves DB Akron has a reading comprehension problem.
It all depends on "question bias" (i.e., how you ask the question). If you ask American Catholics "Do you support the right of same sex couples to go to the courthouse and obtain a civil marriage," the response is overwhelmingly Yes.
Anything for votes; Nobama and Nobiden can't run on their record.
Obama can run on his record:
The DOW was at 8000 when Obama took office, now its at 13000.
Google GDP chart and you'll see that since he was sworn in the economy has grown each and every quarter.
Obama has kept 177 promises to date. (politifact.com).
Soldiers are returning from war, he got Bin Laden (yes we all know about Seal team 6, but the President has to make the order and therefore gets the credit).
Obama saved the auto industry, when Romney would have done nothing and we would have lost those jobs.
How would Romney fix the economy? He hasn't said how. Interesting after years and years of campaigning for President.
Romney is 100 times the leader that President Obama is. What kind of leader does than make him?
What makes Romney 100 times the leader of Obama? Just curious.
Romney had an opportunity to stand up for his gay aide and keep him in that position. There are gay Republicans (google log cabin Republicans).
In this chance to demonstrate leadership, Romney failed.
Look, the guy quit. You can read in to it what you want but that fact is that he was hired by Romney knowing that he was gay. Instead of giving Romney credit for that, you choose to turn another positive into a negative.
Eric, how has the Dow improved the foreclosures, unemployment which has increased since Obama took office, rising inflation with higher prices for gas and basic essentials and the out of control national debt?
Main Street has hardly benefited from the Dow with 401k plans targeted by Dems who want to tax 401k's by removing the tax deferred shelters.
Romney has shown his plans for America with supporting the Ryan budget. The Ryan budget does to America what the leaders did in England, austerity.
Well, England is headed into a double dipped recession.
Why would anyone want to do to our country which has proved in England would cause even more of a downturn to our economy?
Remember if the republicans had a clue what they were doing with our economy we would never have this huge debt to begin with.
Responsible republican leaders would have raised taxes in wartime and not put it all on the Chinese credit card and then try and blame the next president for their failures.
Yes we have a deficit problem, but it not going to be fixed with more wars and more tax cuts to the richest like the republican want to do. This is the same plan that got us where we are today.
Unfortunately tax cuts for the richest is the only important plank in the republican platform. Well that and taking away the freedom of choice from women.
VOTE FOR AMERICA.....VOTE OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Let's take a look at Grenell's words:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/gay-romney-aide-steps-down-citing-backlash-over-sexuality/2012/05/01/gIQAHmQAvT_story.html
"While I welcomed the challenge to confront President Obama’s foreign policy failures and weak leadership on the world stage, my ability to speak clearly and forcefully on the issues has been greatly diminished by the hyper-partisan discussion of personal issues that sometimes comes from a presidential campaign.” He added: “I want to thank Governor Romney for his belief in me and my abilities and his clear message to me that being openly gay was a non-issue for him and his team.”
From the same article,
Matthew J. Franck, director of the William E. and Carol G. Simon Center on Religion and the Constitution at the Witherspoon Institute, called Grenell a “loose cannon” with a passion for the “gay agenda.”
“My problem is that by his own description he is an ardent activist for same-sex marriage who went to go work for a candidate who wants to defeat same-sex marriage. It doesn’t look good to the people that Romney needs support from to have an advocate for same-sex marriage in such a high-profile position,” Franck said. “The Romney campaign needs to be unequivocally opposed to same-sex marriage and to appear to be. The campaign has remedied a problem that was bound to get worse.”
Romney had a chance to stand up for his choice and he didn't. Plain and simple. He caved.
The fact is that when you give in to religious pressure to unjustly fire a man because of how he was born, you give the social conservatives power over you. THEY now set YOUR agenda, and you become just their puppet.
The ones this threatens the most are the same ones who wear tin foil hats in public!
how again is a guy being fired from his job due to his sexual orientation positive? just curious....
Keep trying, Eric.
Grenell said:
Does that sound like to words a a FIRED man? You libs see blood in the water when there is no blood and start your feeding frenzy with nothing there. The blood in the water will be your own if you're not careful. (this is not meant as a threat)
Hi Tad, I welcome the debate.
Let's look at foreclosures. First, the housing bubble burst 6 years ago, before Obama took office. Obama has put forth several plans on foreclosures. The last in October of 2011.
Romney's plan is for everyone to get out of the way and when prices hit bottom it will fix itself. Which is good if you are a banker, but not if you are one of those losing a home.
Unemployment went up after Obama took office, but that couldn't be avoided given that job loses started before Obama took office and we were bleeding 700,000 jobs a month. Fromm the graph below, Obama has done a good job bringing employment down slowly. More could have been done if he wasn't obstructed by Republicans.
http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet?request_action=wh&graph_name=LN_cpsbref3
Gas prices are headed down after speculation related to Iran. I think we can all agree that Presidents don't control oil prices. Obama called for an investigation of speculation.
As for inflation: http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/
Not much has really changed in the last year.
Atticus, Bryan Fischer and the nutty Religious Right have neen bragging for a week about getting the man fired.
Sure, Grenell said he quit. What was he going to say? He did make it clear that there was pressure for him to step down. I think we can all agree on that.
Romney could have kept him, stood up to the pressure and he didn't.
Plain and simple.
It's not about "blood in the water" it's about Romney's leadership.
Atticus--Grenell was hired as a foreign affairs expert, but was not allowed to attend any meetings on the subject even when some of the ideas were his. And he was told to keep a low profile. I have no love for gay Republicans and I consider the term an oxymoron, but Romney only took him on because he was openly gay and then tried to stuff him back in the closet and caved when the far right nut cases complained.
Good going my main troll, Doc. Got 'em all off topic. At least our President isn't the Naked Emperor that Romney is......lmao....that's some package of BS your party offers up...."We're gonna turn this car right around and push the pedal to the metal. Ditch? Did you say rich? Yea, we're gonna get some mo' rich! Oh, ditch....What ditch?"
If animals could vote Biden would be ( absolutely comfortable ) with human marring animals!
Romney says "Corporations are people. Well Birthers...show me a birth certificate!
Tell the soldiers overseas fighting , getting wounded, the soldiers coming back wounded and dying, tell the families of soldiers that corporations are people too. Romney .......show us the birth certificates and show us corporations bleeding and coming home in body bags. Corporations are people too.....LIAR
No rights for gays...but repubs and Romney give full rights to being people to corporations because of MONEY!
Obama/Biden 2012
So, can Biden convince Obama to sign the EO that's been sitting on his desk that would bar government contractors from discriminating against the LGBT community?
Didn't think so.
Did Biden speak out against Amendment One in North Carolina- that will bar not just gay marriage, but civil unions?
Didn't think so. Neither did Obama.
You think the LGBT commu it's buys this all talk, no action?
Don't drug yourself with that lie. Let me give you a little reality on what's going on in the real world: four years ago at this time, when I was in Key West, every car with a bumper sticker had either "Hillary" or "Obama". By the end of June, they were all Obama.
I just got back yesterday- there was not one- not one- bumper sicker anywhere. No signs. Nothing. And my friends down there? Those who are not voting Romney are not voting the top of the ticket. Period. It's exactly what happened in 2010- but this time, on steroids.
They keenly feel Obama's economic failures- its a tourist town, and there are a lot fewer of them. That means more failed businesses, empty hotel rooms, empty restaurants. Moreover, the LGBT community feels betrayed. One friend asked me if I knew he was homophobic before the election, and I to,d him that everything about him indicated that he was. He then asked me why I had never brought it up in discussion. I asked him if he would have believed me if I had- and he admitted that he would not have done so.
He's voting for Romney despite Romney's ambivalent answers on gay rights- because, in his words, if the president is not going to care about gay rights either way, he'd at least like someone who can grow the economy.
That ain't Obama.
Hope the wife is gathering boxes- moving is a hassle.
Obama shelved in 2012.
Like I said again and again, GOP and Muslim are almost the same, they use their religious belief to govern what need to be put into laws.
Atticus::: Mutt Robme is a leader? Let's see. He was with Bain Capital, bought out businesses and LED the employees to the unemployment line. He said he loves to fire people who work for him-- he LEADS them to the unemployment line.
He does lead in boasting about how filthy rich he is, how he has hidden bank accounts off shore-- I can't hide money in offshore accounts because I'm not a rich bich. So Mutt doesn't give a tinkers damn about me-- or anybody else in the income bracket that I'm in.
You sound like one of Mutt's stooges.
Anything for votes? Looks like Tic-Doc hasn't been listening to Mitt (The DemoLiberConseraTeaBagicanlicant) Republican. :)
Funny how Obama is praised that his opinion is 'evolving'.... usually you liverals would be screaming 'flip-flopper' to that kind of talk..if he were a Republican.
Liberals and their comments... so silly, so rediculous... so stereotypical. GOP and Muslim almost the same... what an idiot.
Then you have Eric that believes all the liberal propaganda fed to him by the Obama camp. I have to hand it to the Obama camp, they love to spoon feed their children all the pap they will believe. Hey Eric - blinded to the additional $5-6 Trillion in back breaking national debt over the past 3 years... and how about stepping back Eric to 2007 when Obama was in the Senate and he supported the melt down of our economy because he was part of the majority democrats that were responsible for the banking crisis and the housing crisis...
We shall see, come November, if Obama stands a chance... My personal belief is Obama loses in a landslide.
Cave-in, that's what we like to call a strawman. You first start by saying something you choose to make up and then attempt to presume it actually applies to Obama. While "everyone's" opinions do "evolve", to compare Obama's to Mitt (Which President do you want mam?) Romney is the funniest joke I've read in a while. :)
Romney says anything to get elected more than anyone since LBJ. Now curiously you should look to LBJ and ask yourself, is Mitt really the guy you think he is?
Nah, I doubt you even know who LBJ is. :)
You lost the second you typed those four words. :)
Tad::: Have you checked on the price of gas during your savior's time in the White House? It was OVER four dollars a gallon at one time (at least).
Your savior George W. Bush got us into two unfunded wars. And they are the beginning of the mess we are in over there. And I didn't think that an EMERGENCY that happened once a month for many months was really an emergency-- but your savior did. He didn't plug his unfunded wars into a budget but came up with the emergency once a month like clockwork.
BREAKING NEWS!
Ron Paul supporters have taken over the state Republican convention in Maine! They have voted to give ALL Maine's delgates to Ron Paul! Mitt Romney is lawyering up to contest the results!!!
So much for uniting the Party behind Romney!
http://www.pressherald.com/news/Delegate-fight-Snowe-LePage-today-at-convention.html
I chose to make up? Read the article. it uses the word evolve. I've heard your own liberal talking heads say how great and smart he is for evolving. No critisism for him being against gay marriage.
Mitt is far from a great option, but he is by far the best option in this election. The Obama experiment is over.
Please do not vote for Obama here is why:
Outlaw Occupy: US set to strangle protest…
lee-936758
If animals could vote Biden would be ( absolutely comfortable ) with human marring animals! post 2.18
The same tiresome bull@!$%# from the mindless superstitious reich. How about telling the truth for once?
You folks would get credit for indicating you're as uncomfortable about males marrying males and females marring females as your predecessors were about people with different skin colors marrying. It still would be bigotry, but at least that would be honest.
How about getting some courage?
Jeff - what am I trying to win? After my first 4 words do you think I am looking for liberal support? Have I ever been looking for liberal support on these boards? Personally, I think liberals are off their rockers. They support the most socialistic administration I've ever seen in this country and will complain about anything with a capitalistic shadow. What does that make liberals? Think about it.
Stoney - they are afraid they will offend someone. They have no problem offending someone on the right though...
The Title of this Article is very confusing:
Biden says "He is very comfortable with Gay Marriage".
He is not a Polished Politician---with a gift of speaking well. A change in Vice President for a Second Term is needed for Pres. Obama.
This statement could be taken many ways---"I know, I know".
ahh, I see brianb is back to get his ass handed to him again. You should be in mourning cuz George "Goober" Lindsay died today. Talk about a pervert.
tonybeeerm - That's funny, my ass never left my body... but since you seem to be interested in it... maybe I should turn around and run.
@Eric-913730
Then why isn't he?
that would be wise since you get owned on nearly every article you participate in.
what experiment is that? Please explain what you mean. (This ought to be good).
The Obama experiment - electing an unexperienced community agitator into the highest office of the land. Placing a mouthpiece for the marxists in office where he continually throws this country under the bus. A narcissist that insists on using the word "I" in just about every sentence that he takes credit for and "we" when it didn't work out so well. Electing an inexperienced leader but allowing the people surrounding him to tell the American people he's doing a wonderful job... thereby causing the kool aid drinkers to slurp up all the propaganda they desire.
A complete experiment in lies, slight of hand and manipulation. Double meaning statements and open ended ideas that produce nothing. Experimenting with the wealth of the country to produce absolutely nothing in the end. An undefined "hope and change" and now the communist motto "forward."
3 1/2 years of campaigning since Obama's only strong point is campaigning. Fooling the liberals into thinking he's a solid thinker because he gets all his words from a pre-written script through the use of a teleprompter. Can't speak a coherent word without it.
If that's not an experiment, nothing else is.
Nice list brianb - you've just explained GW Bush's eight years in depth. Especially the part about the lies, slight of hand and manipulation. Pretty much describes it to a tee. The part about taking the country's wealth or surplus and blowing that on unfunded wars so his rich pals can get wealthier. Yea, that one too. And you might as well can the teleprompter dig. Everyone since the mid-60's has used one. Beats shuffling papers around on a rostrum. And have you ever used one? Probably not or you wouldn't be using that old worn out rehashed attempt at dissing the president. Face it, if that's all you've got, you've lost. Romney is going to get his ass handed to him the same way you get yours handed to you. What a joke.
Romney:"I like cheesy grits... y'all."
@tonybeeerm
You seem to be under the impression that Obama's 3+ years in some way differs from Bush's 8. As if somehow one has done worse than the other. The reality is that the only difference, if you could call it that, is what exactly they chose to waste our money on. If Obama had managed to do any better Bush would be completely irrelevant by now but he's not is he? Most libs, including yourself apparently, would MUCH rather talk about Bush than they would Obama, why do you suppose that is? As if we don't all know the answer to that. Even if some wouldn't actually admit it.
If your feet are on unstable ground, better to attack than defend.
I have noticed a lot on the right angry about the word "evolve", like it's a bad thing, but again, we are talking about the right.
I see First Read has restored many collapsed liberal posts but haven't done so to any opposing posts from the right! I guess that's their option, but free speech is for all.... right?
American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, and National Association of Social Workers
http://allpsych.com/journal/homosexuality.html, citing the American Psychological Association and the removal of homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Disorders in 1973
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_mental_health.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_psychology
How sad...back to this. You can't legislate morality. It can't be done. Marry whoever you want, sleep with your car, love moth balls...whatever, as long as a person isn't harming someone else then LIVE AND LET LIVE! And, it always seems to go back to the President. Kudos to Biden for speaking out. And, for you bible readers and pushers...most of the 'books' of the Bible aren't even in there because Priests took out what they didn't want. The Gospel of Mary, The Gospel of Thomas...the Apocrapha...to mention a few...so keep your scriptures and translations to yourself. There is a reason that the founding fathers wanted to seperate church and state and most of the comments on this article prove it...hands down.
Republicans are having a harder and harder time saying that the rights of gay couples are the same as the rights for heterosexual couples.
Initially the GOP stated they would support civil unions, but in general they have back tracked on that every time saying that, "it's marriage in a round about way".
Republicans say that Obama has divided the country, yet, isn't the Republican position on gay marriage an example of how they have divided the country?
Kind of sounds a lot like President Obama's current position on gay marriage. Is there some kind of secret wink that tells you that in President Obama's second term he is going to flip flop on gay marriage?
Both Obama and Romney will tread carefully on this issue given it's an election year.
Obama's position on DADT was pretty clear. Romney's not so much so.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2011/12/21/romney-v-romney-on-dadt/
"Mitt Romney has attempted to thread the needle on whether gays and lesbians have a right to serve openly in the military, saying he staunchly opposed the repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell but is not willing to reinstate the policy. In a 1994 letter to the Log Cabin Republicans, Romney called Don’t Ask Don’t Tell “the first of a number of steps that will ultimately lead to gays and lesbians being able to serve openly and honestly in our nation’s military,” but then in 2007 Romney claimed he originally found the policy “silly” but effective, and has since criticized attempts to repeal it. In a June debate Romney dodged a question on whether he would reverse the repeal, until he finally told the Des Moines Register editorial board this week that he would oppose the restoration of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell."
Romney's going to go hard-line opposed to equal rights. He's had to flip-flop to the extreme Right. The same Right that booed a soldier for being born homosexual.
Yet he refuses to say so publicly. Is THAT leadership?
Think Joes getting ready to come out of the closet???
Eric said: Republicans say that Obama has divided the country, yet, isn't the Republican position on gay marriage an example of how they have divided the country?
Not in the least. Gays and lesbians are such a small portion of society, but they scream very loud. They have created this huge deal over their so called rights. They have no more rights than I do or anyone else. What they want are "special" rights to do what THEY want to do. They want the rules bended in order for them to live shameless lifestyles.
What gays and lesbians are not grasping is the fact that no matter how hard they try, they are selling their lifestyle and the only people buying it are those that are forced into it by the government.
Whats all the bickering about, Bidden is just trying to expand the voting tree to the non believers..
Why should this issue of homosextual marriage even enter into the campaign retoric of either candidate - or any candidate? I, or why should anyone, want government to enter into ones sexual preference. There are certainly more pressing issues to be discussed - like just how will the candidates address the hugh deficit? -- which is ever so much more important at this critical time
If homosexual couples want to declare themselves united - ok. As someone else posted, call it a union, recognized by law, if the word "marriage" is so offensive.
Good grief!
I have the perfect solution to the entire gay marriage issue. My solution requires no governmental action, no implementation of any new policies, no taxes, no complex regulations and no action by any one choosing not to take part.
My answer is --- If you're opposed to gay marriage, DON"T marry a gay person.
Yawn, sleepy joe would say anything if it will keep him on the gravy train! Yawn!
Jeff - what am I trying to win? After my first 4 words do you think I am looking for liberal support? Have I ever been looking for liberal support on these boards? Personally, I think liberals are off their rockers. They support the most socialistic administration I've ever seen in this country and will complain about anything with a capitalistic shadow. What does that make you liberals? Think about it.
Please do not vote for Obama here is why:
Outlaw Occupy: US set to strangle protest…
to visit partner in the hospital? DOMA?......... what special rights?
Tao of wow - Let's say my girlfriend is in the hospital.. Same thing. Let's say my best friend is in the hospital - same thing... No special rights...
Gay marriage never bothered me, and it's only the religious right-wing zealots and nuts that seem to be the only people having a problem with it.
If we ended religion, we would probably end racism, bigotry and all this gay bashing in America.
It seems that anytime the people and Obama wants equality for all people, the republicans get their panties all bunched up in the cracks of their racist/bigoted-azzes.
jussayin-
Brainb - makes us SMART! Since we don't oppose what you claim but we support our country - all of it - all the people. Not like you who want rights for just a few. And, just so we're clear - we all KNOW you're off your rocker.
It's all about equal rights for all - for ALL. Not for who you decide you want to have the same rights as you. No one is asking for special rights but often couples of the same sex are denied access to their partners in the hospital - because they aren't "married." Get it? No one is trying to make special laws - just have the same laws for everyone. And, marriage gives with it certain rights.
It's unnecessary that people who are homosexual are not afforded the same rights and courtesies that you and I are. Not special rights - just the same rights.
but your saying they have to be in a state of perpetual relationship that would never allow them to turn that "girlfriend" into something more. you have the right to marry your girlfriend so really not the same thing is it?
If the progressive/liberals are right about it only being republicans that are against gay marriage, why whenever it comes to a vote the majority are against it? Is this country majority republican? Hell no, the majority in this country no longer have a voice because of the rhetoric of the minority.
And I watched old Joe on MTP and he would not give a straight answer as to whether he supported gay marriage. He said he doesn't have a problem with it but he would not say if he supports it. He is as two faced as his boss on the matter.
I don't have a problem with it but I don;t support it.
T@oasty McGrath
Are you sure? Or would he be more like the Right who shouted down those few who booed? Telling the whole story kind of makes your point seem petty and worthless doesn't it? After all it was just a couple people, who were immediately silenced by the majority. Funny how you libs never seem to make mention of that little detail. It's not like he was being continuously heckled by the majority of the crowd because they didn't agree with his stance. Only those on the LEFT do that kind of thing-http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/hero_unwelcome_Zi3u1fwtRpo87vXAiAQfSN
Brian, if your wife is in the hospital...do you see the weakness of your argument? Many states still will not allow same sex partners to enter the ICU or collect widow's pension, military benefits like health insurance. You have more rights than you realize while a group of people's rights have been denied because you choose to look the other way.
Since we are not a country of majority rule, so the tyranny of the majority cannot deny rights to the minority, it does not matter what the majority wants, and that is why civil rights cannot be put to a vote. When such votes are taken, and such laws (like Prop H8) are enacted, they are challenged through the courts and are found unconstitutional -- which they are, on a couple of levels at least.
It's wrong, wrong, wrong. You can argue defend make excuses 'till the sky turns green it is still wrong, it's not natural. I get the chills just thinking about a man sticking something in another man where the sun don't shine. Marrying your pets will be next.
I'll probably get collapsed but I don't care.
Now the Government is stuck on Gay Marriages. Biden speaks again for Pres. Obama.
Let's get to the real business; problems in the United States. That includes herterosexuals, all forms of transgenders, and gays.
Put this subject aside for a moment, until after the Election, and get to work on Unemployment, people who are poverty stricken (who never have been), housing, foreclosures, and fixing the Gas Costs, including opening up America's natural resources, Pipelines---there is plenty here. It is a Great Depression. Nobody cares!
And another thing -- we have relied on the news media/reporters to inform us of and update us on current events. But - that was yesterday. Today reporters are uninformed and insipid with their dumbed down questions. So Carrie Dunn, author of this article, or whatever your name is, ask some intellegient/informative questions of the Vice President of the United States.
Go Bobby Knight!
It takes a real heterosexual man like our beloved, Vice-President, Joseph Biden, to be comfortable with his sexuality, to not be afraid and ashamed of consenting adults marrying the person that love, and willing to love kids, so they can bring families together when their biological parents won't or can't bring them up in a loving home. I wish President, Barack H. Obama and Michelle Obama, were as clear as their VP is about Gay marriages.
"Kind of sounds a lot like President Obama's current position on gay marriage."
Except that Eric did not refer to the GOP's stance on gay marriage - he referred to their stance on civil unions, which Obama supports.
@floyd-335513
Now here is a well thought out and articulate argument against gay marriage.
<end sarcasm>
Got yourself a woman doctor, Floyd?
When animals are able to consent then we can talk about animals.
why is this a campaign issue?........more smoke screen diversion from the dems who can't defend obama's miserable presidency....ONE AND DONE BARRY
By definition (going back to before Christ) marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman, period!
Liberals shouldn't be able to make us redefine the word marriage to suit this 'issue'! I would, however, support a new word to describe a similar union between two men, two women, or any other relationship... just leave the work 'marriage' alone!
Isn't it just like a liberal to use this as a political weapon? lol!
No actually in many places in the world there have been gay marriages since before the time of Christ.
You're just thinking the whole world revolves around the bible, it doesn't.
When my wife and I enrolled our daughter in our local Catholic school for kindergarten the school had two classrooms for each grade in the school K through 8th grade. Each grade had about 50 kids. Out of the 50 kids in our daughters grade almost every kid had two parents living together in marriage. There was only one or two kids who's parents were divorced. By 8th grade out of the 50 or so kids the number of married parents living together in marriage was about 5 to 7. So much for the sanctity of marriage.
"Backdoor" would be a better fit than "Backcountry."
Don't think so joregon.... give me a modern day example where marriage is defined as a union between any other combination other than a man and woman.
There are accepted unions for alternative unions, and that's great. But not marriage. If there are such laws then those laws are wrong! Like Bill said, leave the institution of marriage alone!
wrong brianb, gay marriage has zero effect on me one way or the other. so why should I oppose allowing consenting adults to marry whomever they please?
there is absolutely no need in this country or this world to promote large families anymore, in fact we should actively discourage large families by eliminating all child-based tax advantages (and child-based welfare for that matter)
WRONG. Civil marriage predates organized religion by thousands of years; there were provisions for marriage found in Hammurabi's Code, which predates the bible. Furthermore, same-sex marriage was legal in some ancient civilizations. And you -- and SteveH -- don't own the word "marriage".
BTW, marriage has been redefined in this country countless times since our inception.
Just another political agenda item for the Obama campaign.
Class warfare, women's rights, energy policies, student loans, et al, and now this.
More smoke and mirrors for Obama followers who don't know why they voted for him to begin with:
When it comes to wining votes, money and power anything is normal, even if they have to hide behind the bible. Now, if a man has a hole to poo and a vigina, then please claim you are a woman. if a woman has a hole to poo and a stick to pee, then claim you are a man. if not then let' make it normal for humans and other animals to do it too.
I have no problem with giving gay couples the same rights as married couples, but what's wrong with calling it a 'Civil Union' instead of calling it a 'Marriage'.
Then everyone gets what they claim they want - Gays get equal protection, and others save the term 'Marriage' for what it has historically meant - a union of a man and a woman.
It seems to me that Gays are being a bit unreasonable by demanding that their relationship be called a 'Marriage' if they are granted all of the same legal rights.
I think there is a larger context for which such issues with gay marriage needs to be addressed. Despite the fact that this culture supposedly values individual choice and the sense of freedom that is gained from such choices, there is a steady resistance from those who seem to value and judge the lives of others according to their ability to follow existing (socially conservative) social structures. This flies in the face of individual freedom and the pursuit of happiness. To some, one's only lot in life is to accept and promote very constricted notions of what life should be. Take monogamy, for example, heterosexual or otherwise. This is taken for granted as something each and every one of us should accept as the only way to establish and build relationships. Take gender roles as another glaring example of how rigid conformity is valued over all else. in my experience, conservative Christian groups in this country make a habit of declaring that it's their way or no way at all. We should be free to search for our own meaningful existence outside of traditional and religious boundaries. There are alternatives. We don't all have to subscribe to the same lifestyles.
so the Rushs, Becks, and other far right radio and faux news mouthpieces have learned the lesson very well indeed
SteveH: you want a modern example of a nation that defines a marriage as other than man/woman only? Well, let's see. . . Canada is the nearest one. There are a number of others.
Actually you notice I said since BEFORE the time of Christ, such as Mesopotamia and ancient Egypt.
In the world since Christ:
Canada
South Africa
Belgium
Iceland
The Netherlands
Argentina
Many more, but here in Oregon the Coquille tribe (as a sovereign nation) recognizes same sex marriage.
@floyd-335513
Yet another well thought out and articulate comment.
<end sarcasm>
Hey at least you're consisntant... even if it is consistently idiotic.
No such thing as born a homo...you are born male or female.
Toasty..name the "ton" of changes in definition of marriage? Curious, are you just spouting off like fiesty?
Fiesty you get +responses from your libby good buddies not because of your rantings...you are not that intelligent..your ego thinks you are but sorry you're just a hack.
Well, Roy, why is it that virtually every time the right puts forth legislation to ban gay marriage, they also ban civil unions? The right wing doesn't give a damn about "protecting marriage" ... if they did, they'd be trying to get divorce laws toughened or repealed. They're just plain old homophobes.
Justembarassed
You are born ORIENTED either Straight, Gay, or Bisexual.
Just as you are born Right-handed, Left-handed, or Ambidextrous.
Did you make a decision whether you wanted a relationship with a man or a woman?
That's a pretty short list of societies accepting gay 'marriages' joregon! I prefer how the majority of governments treat marriage. As a sacred union of a man and wife. Let gays have legal civil unions/partnerships and leave marriage alone. Majority rules, why make exceptions for a small minority?
leftisf: except here in the US the majority does not rule when it comes to civil rights. They are not subject to a vote.
Bisexuals will be the next ones to step up to the plate....They will demand the right to each have a husband and a wife.....Quad-Marriages- 2 Males, 2 Females...
They'll call it "The Almond Joy-Mounds Marriage Act"....Becaaaaause...
SOMETIMES YOU FEEL LIKE NUTS, SOMETIMES YOU DON'T .....
Barry-NJ "Well, Roy, why is it that virtually every time the right puts forth legislation to ban gay marriage, they also ban civil unions?"
Do you have several examples to back up your 'virtually every time' comment?
If Gays want equal legal rights as married couples, I say give it to them, but they should also have equal legal responsibilities.
Just pass a law that says "People who enter into a Civil Union contract with someone of the same sex shall have all of the same legal rights and responsibilities as those in a hetereosexual Marriage contract"
I'd be willing to bet that well about two-thirds of the American public would support that.
PS - I suspect that Obama will stay away from this issue because about 70% of Blacks oppose Gay 'Marriage', and he won't want to alienate a big part of his base.
Roy Wilson: didn't Plessy v. Ferguson teach us that "separate but equal" is inherently unfair to those who are kept separate and is never truly equal? Do we really need to re-learn that painful lesson?
Feisty is a plant, a stooge, a hack, etc. Bidden is an embarrassment to BHO and Americans everywhere. Osama got it right. He would be a disaster as POTUS. BHO should change VP to insure his re-election. Hillary???? Can't miss with that team.
Since 53% of all Americans already support gay marriage, it's a moot point.
Bus, as dslsca also points out, civil rights (like marriage) cannot be voted on this country.
Left
I didn't list them all, only a few. Do your own homework.
Roy .... this page lists 19 states that explicitly ban same-sex marriage AND civil unions. Virginia goes so far as to ban any private contracts that "intend to approximate the design, qualities, significance, or effects of marriage" (there goes the argument that gays can have the same rights, they just need to draw up the correct paperwork).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_constitutional_amendments_banning_same-sex_unions_by_type
By the way, the current amendment in NC being vote this Tuesday also bans civil unions:
“Marriage between one man and one woman is the only domestic legal union that shall be valid or recognized,”
So, what you saying about gays being able to have equal rights if they'd just settle for calling their unions "civil unions" instead of "marriage"?
Bernie is an idiot; hack; etc. Why are you so enamored with Feisty? LOL
Biden is in the right job and so is Hillary. She's beefing up her credentials for her 2016 run for President.
SeekingSanity.........."Hillary. She's beefing up her credentials for her 2016 run for President."
That was decided at the Secret Bilderberg meeting she and Mr. Obama attended in Northern Virginia by brushing off the media who was already on Obama's plane heading for his next "campaign" stop.
Notice how quickly she exited the 2008 Presidential campaign AFTER that meeting. My oh my, eliminate the opposition by saying she would get the SofS job with a "run" in 2016.
Mrs. Clinton needs to retire and start another Whitewater real estate deal in Arkansas:
Brianb-999431
Yep, 10% is such an insignificant part of our society to pay any mind to.
I always wondered how someone like you would react if you had a gay child.
Even worse, what on earth would you do if you were pregnant and knew the child was going to be gay?
Such righteous hypocrisy.
"They support the most socialistic administration I've ever seen in this country"
Well Brianb -you must be rather young because the two most socialistic administrations in my lifetime were both Republicans. One was Nixon with his wage and price controls and the other was George W. Bush and his bailout of huge banks. I doubt you know what socialism is other than a word Limbaugh the junkie and Fox trained you to say.
I'd just like to see the Republicans come up with One IDEA of there OWN, maybe just once in 4 years.
Hey Biden.. Who gives a hoot if you support it or not.. Its a function of religion.. Not any government.. Your job as federal government is to uphold our rights to keep any state in our republic that may want to butt it's nose in our personal business out!! Its not the states of the feds business.. So why don't you keep your opinions to yourself and just do the job we requested per our constitution and your oath!!! RON PAUL 2012.. Restore our free republic.
Care4: well, actually, no. Religion is in the "holy matrimony" business. Government is in the marriage business. Last time I checked, the government and not the church issued marriage licenses. And I'd say standing up for the 14th Amendment guarantee of equal protection under the law IS doing the job we requested per our Constitution.
Well Redd, the first one to come to mind was allowing interracial marriage. Then there's re-defining it to just one man and one woman, as opposed to many. How many more do you want?
Toasty, you arer confusing race with sex. Marriage is between a man and a woman, race doesn't matter now or even back when blacks were persecuted. Oh how liberals try and twist the facts to suit their weak arguments.
By the way, my Aunt also named Toasty, but she's more sensible and won't take a position merely to provoke others as you like to do.
It's amazing that with the 10s of thousands of marriages that happened last year, I knew not a single one of the people that got married and not a single one of them have effected me in my life nor have they turned me gay and forced me to divorce my wife.
Robin, he was asking for an example of when marriage was redefined. It was changed from "a man and a woman of the same skin color" to "a man and a woman." This isn't rocket surgery.
"I voted against it before I was for it"
Yep, change we can believe in.
Flip flop....flip flop.....flip flop.....to get those VOTES !!! Sounds like a Mr. Obama strategy.
Race mattered big time when the laws banning interracial marriage were in place. It is only now, with our society's different perspective on the issue, that you can say that race doesn't matter. In 50 years, people will be saying that sexuality doesn't matter, either.
That's nice that he's comfortable with anal sex.
conversely Roy, why not pass a law that the government will ONLY recognize civil unions, regardless of the genders involved, and the phrase "marriage" will only be recognized by a religious institution of some form. that way whatever church or whatnot can decide what it wants to call a "marriage" and everyone else is equal in the eyes of the law
This argument was used once before... it had a little catch phrase to it... do you know what it is?
"Seperate but Equal"
It seems still some people do not realize that seperate can not be equal, even after 50 years or so.
Funny, that those arguing against civil rights for gays are using the same b.s. arguments which argued against civil rights for minorities. Coincidence? I think not.
Next up: appeal to tradition as an argument against
interracial marriagehomosexual marriage.Floyd, I don't understand, if it bothers you to think about what 2 gay men do in the privacy of their own bedroom, why do you continue to think about it? Either YOU have an obsession with homosexuality, or YOU are a closet case. Either way, YOU are the one with the problem and you need to deal with it yourself. Oppressing other people won't solve YOUR problems. Again YOU are the problem.
Toasty, yes this isn't rocket science, so why don't you get the fact that marriage has never been redefined, but recently changed to include gay marriage.
Prior to the Civil Rights Act a marraige between a white and a black was illegal in 17 states! the Civil Rights Act (among other things) forced those states to change that law, but 'marriage' was never 'redefined! Robin is right, your purpose here is only to stir up trouble... not to add an opinion!
Marriage has "never been redefined"? Let's see:
Here is a list of how marriage has been redefined in this country since our inception:
Holy @!$%# Erin.
Erin and Toasty, you girls miss the point. Laws will continue to be made changing the face of marriage to adapt to changes in society. What most folks are afraid of is that the basic concept/definition of marraige will be lost or replaced that is: a sacred union between a man and a woman' Period.
The great majority of those laws Erin listed pertain to that basic concept of a man and woman.
Legalize gay unions or even a union between species if you want. But keep the basic concept of marriage and for legal purposes call a union between gays something else, but something that will allow those couples the same legal rights that marriage offers men and women.
Legally, there is nothing "sacred" about marriage in the US; we are a secular nation. And the point YOU have missed is that society evolves, and as it evolves, laws must change to reflect that. Which is why slavery is no longer legal, women have the vote, and interracial marriage is legal.
Why should that be necessary? YOU DON'T OWN THE WORD "MARRIAGE".
Erin, you must be copying sound bites from Carney (BO's press guy) who just this morning said Obama's feelings on this issue is evolving... does that mean he's growing a spine? His political nature has kept him from revealing his true feelings since 2007! He is the king of pandering to the base!
Regarding your response to Uhtred, perhaps you should look at it again... as you now seem to be using his argument to support yours, lol. And no one is suggesting they 'own' the word marriage.... hehe! Why do liberals always twist the words of those that disagree with them???
well actually, that is exactly what you are doing, demanding that "marriage" is "owned" by christians and their idea of what marriage "should" be (as defined by their imaginary friend)
Uhtred, marriage used to be one man and as many women as he could club over the head. There is no "basic concept" to marriage whatsoever.
American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, and National Association of Social Workers
http://allpsych.com/journal/homosexuality.html, citing the American Psychological Association and the removal of homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Disorders in 1973
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_mental_health.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_psychology
Shuklack "This argument was used once before... it had a little catch phrase to it... do you know what it is? "Seperate but Equal" "
Bogus argument - The issue regarding education was clearly wrong because educational funding was not 'Equal'. Show me how Gays using the term 'Civil Unions' instead of 'Marriage' will cause a disparate financial effect - especially since the average Gay couple probably has more income than the average Heterosexual couple.
By the way - It's SEPARATE, not Seperate.
Because the term "civil union" does not confer all of the same benefits, rights, privileges, and responsibilities as the term "marriage" does -- especially as far as the federal government is concerned.
Vice President Biden is a good man.
Agreed, he may fumble his words occasionally, but at the core he is a good person.
Unnaturally speaking, I can understand why President Obama would not object.
Any man that lost a wife and son has another son in intensive care but goes on the campaign trail is definitely a good man.
Wonder how the teamsters union slugs will handle this? BIDEN: If you don't marry same sex don't cum to me for any favors!!!!
And now, here's another part of the story:
Joe Biden checked NO in response to a Human Rights Campaign questionnaire asking if the candidate "Supports allowing civil marriage rights for same-sex couples."
At the vice presidential debate on 2 October 2008:
Joe Biden voted "Yea" for H.R. 3396 (Defense of Marriage Act).
I don't hate Joe Biden, and I don't like Mitt Romney. They are politicians. That's what politicians do ...... lie and pander to get elected.
Biden is the reason we are still looking for the missing link. He might just be that link since he is a complete mindless moron. At first you look at him and think he might be intelligent, but alas he opens his mouth and his ignorance appears..lol But then I feel the same about Gutless Dumbama and his twin brother Dumromney.
I thought I read somewhere Joe Biden was a Catholic. So he doesn't believe he has to follow the beliefs of his own church, what does this say about following the beliefs of our constitution.
People who support gay marriage are sick!!!
GranCanyon, 71% of American Catholics support gay marriage, so it seems that the majority of Catholics in this country are not following the beliefs of their own church.
And the church's beliefs -- ANY church's beliefs -- have no bearing on the Constitution, as we are a secular nation, not a theocracy.
Vice-President, Joseph Biden, is a very good man.
GrandCanyon:
Easy, there is a separation of church and state in our country. Joe Biden is actually following the Constitution. You should actually be in agreement with him. Joe Biden himself is a heterosexual man who married a woman...just like Catholics expect you to. However, the government should not legislate these Catholic beliefs.
Joe Biden is a better negotiator than Obama and that's a fact. Obama has failed to utilize Biden's assets and that has hurt him the last 3 plus years. Obama whines about the Republicans... Joe could have gone in and effected a compromise during the debt/defict debate that could have been a win/win situation for the country, but instead obama whines! lol, pretty silly ain't it?
Obama's narcisstic behaviour and ego has not only hurt him, but has also harmed the country!
Grand Canyon, The majority of Catholics use or have used birth control. A large number are divorced. Numerous Catholic priests have molested children. Most Catholics think their priests should be allowed to marry. At least Biden doesn't believe in "sacred underwear".
Biden is not catholic, check his tax return. He did donate money to the presby church so must profess christianity. Obama professes it when it suits him but he did not donate a penny to any church affiliation. His books indicate he is not of the christian faith...neither would association with Rev wright .
JustRed: How does Obama's association with Rev. Wright, the minister of a Christian church, indicate he is not of the Christian faith? Your logic there eludes me.
Biden has clearly expressed the Obama administration's and liberal depraved morality.
Bill is that you talking about MORALITY, REALLY!!! A Republican, Really!!!!
Hmm .. the last time I looked, religion wasn't specified on tax returns. Maybe Biden IS Catholic (I have no idea), but is going to a Presbyterian church because it is more convenient, easier to protect, has a better minister, etc...
Erin
Although the Hamarabi code was written before Jewish law, that does not necessarily make it superior.
You are ignoring the Five books that Moses assembled, giving not only a complete Geneology to Adam and Eve. Not only is there a geneology, but recorded is how long each figure in line lived and how old patriach was when the next member was born. The whole geneology puts the years before the birth of Christ as 3800 years, The time of Noah at 2150 BC. At that point you have 4 couples consisting of one male and and one female called husband and wife.
Before you call The/h flood a myth, explain the recent expedition to Mount Ararat with a ancient wooden structure sticking out of the glacier. Good luck to them getting back there again. Turkey wants no part of such an item being found.
Erin
71% of American Catholics support gay marriage, so it seems that the majority of Catholics in this country are not following the beliefs of their own church
False! This is one in a number of false representations of catholics.
http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=15355
Adding the two together and calling them marriage is a false representation of the reality.
http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/candacechellew-hodge/4417/new_poll_shows_strong_catholic_support_for_gay_rights
American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, and National Association of Social Workers
http://allpsych.com/journal/homosexuality.html, citing the American Psychological Association and the removal of homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Disorders in 1973
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_mental_health.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_psychology
Comfortable you say? Its not your call Biden, it's God's, and he calls it and abomination.
Fairy tale characters don't make our laws in the United States, Richard.
Then let God judge them. It's not your call to pass judgement Richard, which is exactly what you are doing here. Your God says being gay is a sin. I don't see how allowing them to marry can make it worse, can you?
Separation of church and state, ftw.
I am far more uncomfortable with someone who tells us what G*d says or thinks than two people wanting to legitimize their mutual love. If your bible gives you more comfort than another human being...so be it richard.
You must be an Atheist PUKE
Hey I'll tell you what, if you can show me God saying that homosexuality is an abomination then I'll respect your belief.
If you rely on the bible, show me how a 2000 year old game of telephone involving a book "re-translated" time and time again is actually accurate to the "word" of god. >.>
Have a good day.
NoBama--you haters have such a way with words. May I quote you when I see your minister or priest? Your religious family must be SO proud of you.
NoBama, what do you think of people who believe in Zeus as their god? What if they told you that you couldn't be married because Zeus said so?
Rediculeous, no? Silly even?
That is exactly how rational people who aren't shackled by belief in a fairytale feel about christian beliefs.
trent exactly!!!!
Whoa! Hold the phone, Richard. God just had an angel named Moroni bring me some tablets that said he has a new ruling on this subject. Apparently, God can change his mind on stuff and he has decided to embrace gay people as his chosen ones. I was going to take pictures of the tablets and put them on the internet, but God made them disappear and sucked them back to Heaven.
BTW...if you dont believe this, just remember that you bought all that other fantasy religious garbage that was shoved down your throat. So, dont walk away from this totally real message from God.
Richard, respected Hebrew scholars will tell you that the word translated into English as "Abomination" does not mean "Unacceptable to" or "repugnant" as you assume, but rather "ceremonialy unclean or unready" The same words in Leviticus apply to a menstrating woman.
As others here and in countless other posts on Newsvine for the last few years have pointed out, the KJV, NIV and virtually ALL the English translations of the Bible have thes inaccuracies and the meanings have been lost through centuries of mis-translations upon mistranslations.
Richard
The United States of America is NOT a bible based government.
The people of the United States are secular, yet free to believe whatever they want, by law.
EVERY TIME the bible talks about sin it is not addressed to the secular world but it is addressed to the body of believers.
Man, Richard sure shut up fast...
Richard, I heard God telling me in Aramaic and Hebrew that you're an abomination. The voices in my head is as real as your bible.
So is eating shrimp. So is owning slaves unless you buy them from Canada or Mexico. So is shopping on Sunday. Want me to go on? You ignorant people who call yourselves Christians cherry pick what you want from your "good book" to support your own prejudices. Jerks. Go away.
It's ABSOLUTELY his call. Read the Establishment Clause in the Constitution. The government CANNOT tell him what he can, or cannot believe.
The particular way YOU worship YOUR god is not necessarily the way others do so and either way is fine. Not worship a god is fine too.
The problem comes in when you try to impose your beliefs via civil law.
@Richard-1596928 If its god's judgement. Who the freckle are you to interfere with gaymarriage? Why are you taking away gods responsibility from him? You are not greater than god are you Richard-1596928? Get out of his turf and stop judging as judging is his! So let the gays be gay. Its human. And if you still believe its gods way, let god act on it him/herself. You are just a faulty human full of sins, Richard-1596928.
Thomas Jefferson said there should be a wall between church and state. TJ was our 3rd president and one of America's founding fathers. The founding fathers, despite whatever their own religious beliefs may have been, intentionally created a DEMOCRACY not a THEOCRACY. So people can believe or not believe whatever religious drivel they want to but they have no right expect the rest of us to accept laws being enacted based on their religious beliefs. The arguments against gay marriage all seem to quote the bible so unless all you anti-gay marriage people can come up with a non-religious reason to support your cause I suggest you keep believing what you want but keep your "laws" out of government. Law abiding tax paying citizens should all have the same rights under government laws. Gay people may make you uncomfortable but religious fanatics make me uncomfortable so guess what, we all need to learn to tolerate things that we might not like.
I think everyone should just calm down and relax, it was only Joe Biden who made the comment. Since when did anything he have to say matter? Lol
Good. The majority of Americans are comfortable with it too.
Umm...sorry, Toasty, but the majority of Americans are NOT comfortable with "it", too. A majority of Americans don't want to be forced to swallow tolerance of a "lifestyle" that screams for respect, yet prances around in tu-tus, S&M clothes, and hedonism. Sorry buddy, but the majority on this issue is "silent" to a point. Try again.
Just barely and only recently. Certainly not near enough for our "leader" to take up the cause and support it. Even Biden has never done anything of consequence to support the idea including voting against the so-called Defense of Marriage Act.
@Q-770988
Actually you need some updated info. Preferably something post KJV.
WRONG. The majority of Americans support gay marriage:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/147662/first-time-majority-americans-favor-legal-gay-marriage.aspx
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/21/us-gay-marriage-poll-idUSTRE74K0B520110521
What was that you were saying, Q?
The people who are so concerned with what consenting adults do in the privacy of their homes and bedrooms, that doesn't impact adversely the lives of kids that love, are more a menace to those kids than anyone Gay couple can do to those kids that educate, bring up and love.
why is this a campaign issue?........the dems are blowing smoke since they can't defend obama's abysmal performance.......just more division and pandering from the ass in the oval office.......
Toasty you are living in a fantasy world. Just check the polls dudette. Maybe you are a homo and in love with another same sex that is ok for you. If you are an atheiest it would fit since christianit and the bible condemn homosickuals.
Geez, when did Joe get married again? Was Barry the Best Man ? ;o)
@Q-0770988
"A majority of Americans don't want to be forced to swallow tolerance of a "lifestyle" that screams for respect, yet prances around in tu-tus, S&M clothes, and hedonism."
What about those who don't wish to swallow the pressure to conform to only the narrow behaviors that you deem acceptable, which by the sound of it just happens to fit with rigid gender roles? I'm not gay but I see no point in trying to deny their freedom to "prance", wear particular styles of clothing, or take pleasure in things.
Do you want a society that restricts such freedom? What society do we live in again?
gay stereotype is very apparent...
10% of americans are gay (i doubt it, there is obviously more including bi sexual or people who arnt outyet)..
look around...when was the last time youve seen a feminie gay? not that theres a problem, to each thier own, im not your dad...
theyre normal people walkin around with normal people...which btw 'normal'...?
theyre around you, unless you are in the deep south, i can gareentee you, ull lose your teeth the second you call down a gay men,..
justredd64 - you are one sick dude. And, you really should learn to spell - no wait - it won't matter for you.
Redd, I literally just gave you a poll.
Yeah, well if gay marriage was so popular with voters, then how come it can't be done without getting a runaround with voters.
Because that's not how our country works, Unhappy. We have this thing called a "legislature." If you like, I can give you a brief summary of the United States Government. You need only ask.
American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, and National Association of Social Workers
http://allpsych.com/journal/homosexuality.html, citing the American Psychological Association and the removal of homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Disorders in 1973
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_mental_health.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_psychology
That's funny. Obama sends out Biden to say what his base wants to hear, while the commander in chief ignores them.
You may not know this, but in 5 months, we vote for the next President and Vice president.
Contrary to what you may think, it's time for the VP to start campaigning as well.
Why do you think the Republican party is scrambling to find Romney a running mate?
Our Commander in Chief has a lot of important things to do, like stabilizing Afghanistan and Pakistan. Finding ways to pay for the 2 unfunded wars that started by his predecessor and turn this economy around while the obstructionist Congress fight him every step of the way. Austerity does not work, it'll only lead to double dip recession, just look at Japan, England and Ireland, but that's what the GOP wants. All that at the expense of our economy just to make Obama a one term president. Hope most Americans are smarter than the Fox zombies.
@lonesomegeorge2012
I hope most American are smarter than the Fox zombies AND the MSDNC zombies. Yeah, that means YOU.
Just pandering to 3.5% of the population (GLBT).
Nothing new.
@backcountry164
dont you apply anything to yourself before typing? try reading it to yourself before typing...
fox news has ALWAYS fabricated stories to help the right wing...they change types such as booings, they have people like gleen beck and bill o riely and who does MSNC have?
at least MSNBC isnt crying nazies and communism
No they constantly cry racist, sexist, bigot and homphobe. Then they jon the dems in the other mantras of starving old people and letting the poor die. Then they chop quotes to make points that don't exist. Then when their guy(Obama in this case) doesn't have a record worth running on they try to help deflect and attack the opposition.
sockurmouth
LOL!! The "Fox zombies" same the same BS as you. And like you they believe their garbage. The idea that you are any different is laughable! "At least Fox/MSNBC isn't blah, blah, blah", translation- "at least I don't realize they blah, blah, blah"
You're the flip side of the same crazy coin. Opposite but equal at the same time.
I don't even know why this is still a topic of discussion. It seems incredibly anachronic. I really cannot think of one single argument against gay marriage. It is "unnatural", because this union cannot produce off-spring? That means sterile or older couples should not be allowed to marry? It is disgusting? That means ugly people should not be allowed to marry? The bible says it's an abomination? That means our laws should follow what the bible says (trust me, you don't want to even go there...). Did I forget one? Gay marriage will desecrate the holy union? That means the Kardashians & Co. should not be allowed to marry?
I'm not gay, but I know several gay couples whose "union" is by far more functional and "holy" than many other heterosexual marriages I've seen and fall apart.
Equal rights for all. How hard is that to grasp...
Well put honore-3819091.
Basically the reason you haven't heard an argument against equal marriage rights is because frankly there are none. It's just politicians afraid of pissing off old people. In the end, though, old folks die off, and eventually we'll see our great nation move forward into the Twenty-First Century.
Your an idiot.....
although not particularly well articulated, toasty mcgrath does have a point... and at least ii is not random insults thrown at people anonymously. older more conservative generations pass on and the inheritors of the next generally tend to be a bit more progressive. just look at the history of this country.
Well, I could have more gracefully worded it, but when people attack others' civil liberties, I tend to lose respect for them. I can only hope that I don't become an intolerant and bitter man opposing basic freedoms for all people when I grow old.
I believe that there are old people who are gay, you ...it's not a new phenomenon. Sadly, there are young people being raised to believe that gay people are godless and evil.
Given the divisions in our country philosphically - Northeast/New England, Midwest, Northwest, Southwest, South - I would not be surpised to see a civil way. How many people have told Texas to take a hike? And indeed, how many Texans have said they're like to be their own country. I live in Massachusetts (btw, married to a man since 1984, funny, gay marriage didn't affect me. Huh.), and would never live in certain other parts of the US due to the high level of intolerance and religious social indoctriniation.
A wise taoist once wrote that threatening punishment is how some people train animals, and relegates humanity to perpetual adolescence. Let's use the brain that "god" gave us and think for ourselves. I've had it with "god says" and "you'll go to hell" and "you're with us or against us." Then there are others: "who cares if this rare animal was killed, it's just dinner." "Why should we fly to another planet or invest in science, god won't like that." "The rapture is approaching, hide your kids and stock the bunker."
We haven't evolved at all - we seem to be devolving. Sad, really. We have such potential, yet can't think for ourselves and rise above our petty, tribal squabbles.
Yo, toasty--I'm 68. I usually get very mad when youngsters generalize about us old folks, but I'm willing to give you a pass. BTW, just because you get old doesn't mean that you become bigoted and willfully ignorant. You can do that at any age.
Well, I know plenty of older folks who aren't intolerant and cruel, so I certainly don't think that ALL of them are. But let's face it, the demographics of people opposing equal rights show a pretty explicit "upward" trend.
Idiot calling 101.
When calling someone an idiot, spell you're correctly. Spell check can't save you every time.
No NOT well put.
How about you READING the Bible.
How about your READING what God had to say about homosexuality and what their fate is going to be.
So you can't find one good "reason" to be against "same sex marriage".
Well, you must be blind. I can find about 20 right off the top of my head.
@Elder, fortunately your head does not speak for the majority of us. This is the elder that Toasty is talking about. My best friends are 79 and 81 and they both support gay marriage, they go to church too but complain that it's getting harder and harder to find a church that is tolerant and less bigoted.
Elder Verdell, fortunately your book of fairy tales does not make our laws.
Elder,
What does the bible say about adultery?
Why do churches claim they can put God's blessing on adultery and NO ONE in the body of Christ has a problem with it.
The government of the USA was not founded on any religion.
The bible tells Christians to correct their fellow Christians NOT those of the secular world.
Yet Christians will not correct their fellow Christians as they bless a hurtful sin of adultery.
They will go after a harmless secular sin of homosexuality.
If you have spent any time in the bible you will notice Jesus was the hardest on the religious hypocrites.
Time to look at your hand and see which direction those other 3 fingers are pointing.
Elder apparentely isnt very happy as he imposes his way of life unto others. Others are not allowed to be happy. He is denying other people freedom. As long as his worldview and his perceived freedom illusion stays the same from cradle to grave. Elder will die with his personally built prison of perceived truths. He needs no changing views ever. The world has to stay the same too. Exactely like his mal-adapted worldviews. Else his personally well crafted illusion will fall like a house of cards.
@Elder Verdell-The Church At Pentecost
I'm sure you can. You just won't share those reasons with the rest of us for fear of making a fool out of yourself. Correction- a bigger fool out of yourself.
Elder, America is not a theocracy so give us a reason why gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry that isn't biblical. And don't tell me it's because they can't reproduce. There are plenty of unwanted children out there from straight people. Besides, there's already more than enough humans on the planet to keep the human race going for a long time.
I don't think that Toasty (or anyone else) is claiming that people become bigoted as they age. Rather, those are the opinions that they've held ever since they were young. When today's "Generation Y" (or whatever the current generation is called now) hits 65, they'll still retain their tolerant view of same-sex marriage.
That's why same-sex marriage is inevitable, and why the right-wing is absolutely frantic to have the bans enshrined in state and, eventually, the national constitution. Once in the Constitution, even a relatively small minority will be able to prevent its repeal. But, the christo-taliban knows that its time is running out.
As far as I'm concerned - any kind of love is better than no love at all. What are you haters afraid of? You can't "catch" gay. There isn't a gay army out there that is going to "water board" you into becoming gay.
Good for Biden!
Elder: how convenient for you....you get to 'pick and choose' what parts of the Bible (esp. the Old Testament) that you want to obey and which you want to ignore. You said the Bible is the literal word of God. Does God make mistakes? I suspect you would say 'of course not.' In that case, since God is perfect, how is it possible that you can choose to ignore some of his "abominations" such as shaving, wearing jewelry, and other sinful acts? Aren't you 'out of compliance' with his holy law?
I'll do just that when you read the Bible and see what God has to say about lending another person money and expecting interest upon payback of the loan. The very basis of our banking system and economy is sinful in God's eyes according to the Bible.
@Elder, I'm sorry, could you show me exactly when and where your god ran for presidency, congress, or the senate? Hell, could you show me where he actually ran for mayor or local dog catcher? Your sociopathic bigoted god does not exist, except in the minds of neanderthals. Your bible and your god have no rights to interfere with the United States Constitution or the Bill of Rights. You see the difference there buddy, I only capitalized what is REAL. If you want to live in a country with religious rule, you are free to live in the middle east. We see how wonderful life is there don't we? Pack your bags and don't let the Constitution hit you on your backside on your way out.
American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, and National Association of Social Workers
http://allpsych.com/journal/homosexuality.html, citing the American Psychological Association and the removal of homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Disorders in 1973
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_mental_health.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_psychology
I think gay couples deserve to be as miserable as the rest of us, so I'm all for gay marriage.
Good point.
Poor Richard....I suppose the magic sky daddy comes and sits at the foot of your bed and tells you about abominations...right.
Yes Eastrun,
Is that supposed to be an insult against God?
God sees ALL things. We are judged according to what we DO in this body.
You sitting there cheering for something immoral as homosexuals tells me something about YOU !!
And what did Jesus say about being gay? actually quote. I am christian and I am am really tired of the hate that "christians" spread.
I am tired of the continually push to make God the biggest abortionist of them all by claiming life starts at conception.
I am tired of of all this "oh sodom and Gomorrah" crap when Sodomites is a term for rapists and the biggest rapist in this country are,the Corporation Alpha Oculus Worldwide Group News! The Corporation - Full Movie
Homosexuality is confirmed to occur natural or do you support the idea that the animals are making a choice?..... Or are you one to cover your ears and deny science. God is the judge leave it to him and stop causing so much hate.
Also Does the Bible say the anything about hermaphrodites? Just curious.
@Elder Verdell-The Church At Pentecost
I've read most of the Bible. It's pretty clear to me that the VAST majority of the "judging" is done right here on Earth by people like you. I seem to recall the Bible having something to say about that also.
Y'know, Elder, your "argument" (such as it is) is totally irrelevant. That is, if you call yourself a Christian ! Jesus gave us one Commandment... that we love one another. Anything beyond THAT is non-Christian.
Being Ordained myself, I suspect that you yourself are either a Poseur, or else a member of some kooky pseudo-Christian Cult, as you call yourself "Elder". Much like yhe non-Christian Mitt, who calls himself a Bishop.
Ptoo... ptoo... ptoo.
Elder, I have to ask, do you or your sociopathic god pay taxes? No. Great, shut the hell up and get out of the rights of others. Freedom of religion comes with freedom from religion. As an atheist, I find your bigoted ways an abomination. If your so called god existed, let him come run for some government office and go through the process just like we have to. The church had it's chance to rule, and we don't call it the DARK AGES for nothing.
"I'm happy with anything that will get me votes."
You're talking about Romney navyvet98? The ultimate flip-flopper.
We have other, more urgent issues in this country than having the VP and the press expend so much time on this topic. It is what it is...it comes down to the tax benefits of marriage and healthcare costs and those associated consequences...otherwise the government shouldn't say a thing.
Sure, Glen, civil rights are unimportant -- until YOUR rights are denied.
I could care less about moral or religious aspects and I have friends that are gay. I think the government should have no say in marriage but you cannot get married and then not declare the marriage with the government, otherwise you arrested. Why not? I thought there is separation of church and state? Guess what...it's not! It's about money and inheritance rights, medical, tax benefits for dependents etc. It has nothing to do with civil rights. It has to do with the functioning structure and $$$ of society.
Does he have a problem with a man sticking his wang in another mans rear end???? Just a thought. Probably not since Obama has been sticking his in our rear end since he took office.
The more important question is "why should anyone give a crap?"
When and if you elevate your mind far enough to realize gay marriage is a lot more than where a wang goes, perhaps you can join an intelligent discussion. Obviously you are far far away from that point right now.
I know it is just horrible how President Obama's policies have pulled us out of a recession.
We had a stimulus here in America and in England they followed the republican austerity plan. Our economy due to the stimulus is growing slowly and England is headed into a double dipped recession.
What plan do you think is better for America?
The haters like JD, only know hate and don't seem much concerned about our country or the people in it.
Vote for America....Vote a sea of blue....2012
yep....I can see why American is the way it is right now with asses like these that commented on what I said. YOU are the ones that need to look at the big picture.
So, no reasoned or fact-driven response, JD? I didn't think so.
So, JD, you seem overly concerned about gay sex. Is it penis envy? Is your problem a teeny weeny wienie? You don't have to answer--we all know the truth.
Maybe you shouldn't say the President is anal raping us next time eh?
You expect to be taken seriously after that comment?
There are no gay sex acts that heterosexuals don't engage in too. Frankly JD, what a person & their consenting partner does with their naughty bits is none of your damn business.
but the self-righteous, holy-rollers think that it is both their business and the business of the government what you do with your "naughty bits"
of course 'biden' the liberal hypocrite is 'absolutely comfortable' with gay marriage..as long as its someone else son marrying a man...just like liberals are 'absolutely comfortable' with given murderers a second chance....as long as they live in someone else's neighborhood....liberal hypocrites are so desperate for votes...they would sell their children.
Talk about giving murders a second chance. How about we look at the gun laws the republicans are trying to pass all over America.
The public had to be outraged and protest and march to just get an investigation when a man carrying a gun kills an unarmed teenager.
Pretty bad when the gun laws protect the killers and not the killed. But that is the republican way.
VOTE FOR AMERICA...VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT 2012
Why wouldn't he be for this? He has sold out on everything else, this is incidental.
How is supporting equal rights "selling out?"
Yeah his political record aside I don't see how endorsing social freedoms is "selling out". >.>
Sold out? You mean the GOP's wealthy! Sold out to the money God.
It's called pandering.
News for you Tawandah, both parties have sold out.
Joe Biden, the anti-Catholic Catholic!
He just puts America first. I know that may not be very Catholic, but it is patriotic.
Ah Toasty: That's not any example of putting America first...it's an example of Obama sending him out to say what his "base" want to hear, per usual. As far as Patriotism is concerned, you're only regurgitating what your PC rubbish tells you.
This administration has been the most UNPATRIOTIC and UNCONSTITUTIONAL one in history. Do research on some independent sources for a change.
Keep on blethering, though. You and Feisty are such ignorant examples of your "cause"...you both have probably turned some people away from it!!!!
Okay Annie, name one unpatriotic or unconstitutional thing it's done, with an explanation why you feel it was so.
GET REAL!!!! The list is so endless, it wouldn't fit here, nor are you worth my precious time. YOU and your PC buddies can use YOUR time looking it up anywhere neutral, using the brain you were given at one time.
Ignorance is NOT bliss, and "There are none so blind as those who won't see".
Calm down honey - it's not complicated or time consuming.
A simple link or two to back up your fantasy will suffice.
Show us what you got Annie...
Otherwise you will leave us with the impression you're blowing smoke up our ass...
Yet you couldn't list even one, Annie. Maybe you should let the grown-ups talk...
I like the fantasy about "independant sources".
translation "far-right, national division-based sources that spew radical right-wing drivel"
funny...let the grown ups talk...yeah right...the liberals are going to talk and make sense..that is a double negative.
The liberal agenda is to drive this country to an unmoral based country where anything and everything is just fine...if it feels good do it mentality. Damn the constitution and the fact this country was founded on the belief in God but is willing to look the other way on NO religion or ANY religion including the murderous muslims.
I have found that athiests are the most bigotted people in American today. Same with homos, they are bigotted against heterosexual marriage and individuals.
Biden's about as Catholic as Nancy Pelosi. Both support abortion or as you toadies call it "choice".
I don't see how supporting gay marriage is considered patriotic. If that's your view, I'd say you need glasses.
Annie and justredd share the same half brain and try to both use it at once. Neither make any sense but both spout the GOP talking points. How sad. Again no sanity to be found in the GOP!
Where ever did our little Annie scurry off to?
Can't take the heat baby - best to abandon the kitchen sweetie! lol
Here you go, Redd:
Annie .. I guess you don't understand how debate works. If YOU make a claim, you have to prove it. We don't have to do your homework for you. And, if you can't substantiate your claim, then it is ignored.
Joe Biden, the anti-Catholic Catholic!
How ironic. In 1960, people feared that JFK wouldn't be able to separate his political beliefs from his religious beliefs as a Catholic and would be a puppet of the Pope. Now, apparently, people complain if a Catholic politician DOESN'T follow the dictates of the Vatican!
Feisty & Toasty & Barry - They rarely stick around when they realize that we realize that they are clueless. It's their way of stomping out of the room and slamming the door.
Annie are you ok? Are you ok Annie?
I'm thinking not.
Believe me Kim, I deal with these people all the time.
No, I had to work my shift as an RN.
You people obviously have nothing better to do than agree with each other on these Libbie forums. I won't even count the ways you need to learn BASIC INFO' beyond your itty bitty PC "formed" copies of info'.
Thanks justredd64, for the only intelligent post in #15 .
The remaining posts were lessons in PC brain-dead ignorance...led by the mighty Toasty and the Feisty Butthead. No further comments necessary.
So, in other words you WERE blowing smoke up our ass!
Interesting you could find the precious time in your busy schedule to respond not once BUT twice!
And you still couldn't take a few seconds for a quick Google search to back up your bull@!$%#!
LMAO@U Nurse Ratchett
This is what passes as intelligent in your mind?
Still waiting for an answer from you, Annie. Come on kiddo, don't be afraid.
Toasty - She's still compiling her list. It should be a real doozy since it has taken her so long to get it together. Can't wait. Maybe she can change my mind about voting for Obama...
Of course he is comfortable with gay marriage-it is an election year. It would seem to me that our leaders-both elected and potential should be concerned more about jobs,our economy, our natural resources etc than if two people regardless of sexual orientation want to do in the bedroom. Gays are ok in my mind as long as they (and heterosexuals) keep it (sex) behind closed doors.
Sarg, you should try sex outsoors sometime. Lots of fun. Maybe that's too radical to begin with. So how about trying it in your car for starters?
Yes! But so many str8s don't keep it private and in the privacy of their own places.
Personally, I would be underwhelmed if I saw any couple performing sex in, say, a restaurant or an airport.
...gotta say the right thing to get the 'gay' vote... gotta please everybody! Gotta get re-elected!
Since the "straight" vote is far more numerous than the "gay"vote, your point is moot.
They'll take ANY vote they can get!
Yeah Annie, They take all votes, they don't discriminate. Romney and repubs take corporation votes over human votes. Money votes over human votes, the rich votes who repubs keep giving more subsidies and tax breaks to while cutting food and social programs to help the poor and needy. You are all talking about religion in your defense to stop gays from having equal rights. Typical fake christians of today. Just like teabaggers who say one thing then vote against their self interests. Repubs say they are christian, then act like the devil.
Romney and repubs say Corporations are people but gays are not huh? When hell freezes over corporations are people...
Obama/Biden 2012
The LGBT's know how much the repub's hate them. Trust me, Obama has their vote already.
Same thing can be said about the Tea Party conservative GOP, have the candidates say as many hateful things about the LBGT community, independent women, minority, the poor, so they will be elected by their Koch Brothers, Rupert Murdoch, and all of their Pac donators, to hurt this President's administration and the public that supports his policies of helping out the middle class, working poor, and poor, in America.
The GOP has been badly mislead by their Teabagging Community. This small band of Fascistic Nutzos have disgusted their Communities (after the failure of the 2010 Congressional Elections to do anything but soil themselves in indiscrete puddles of drooling rancor). Their numbers are shrinking with every Primary, and should be nearly non-existent by November.
In an earlier Age, they would've been branded as Traitors, and run out of Town on a rail... covered in tar and feathers. Today, we are (thankfully) more Progressive. These un-American Bigots will simply be ignored by the Populace in the coming months.
Marriage is always a gay affair, what with the flowers and cake and music and rice throwing and the hugging and the kissing
As Bill Maher said, 'Every marriage is a same sex marriage... night after night, it's the same sex!'
Booyah! Celebrate the LBGT family.
Martin - I had forgotten that one. Love Bill Maher - too funny!
Does this mean he's leaving his wife and marrying Barney Frank?
I guess that's what you did, Mike Fillmore, right?
Mike, do you really think you're clever or was that just your inner child posting inanities. Try being a grown up.
Doubtful that Biden shares your own fantasies Mike.
Biden being a Catholic sounds hypocritical.
Looks like Biden's has pissed the Pope off and that is hard to do. But with Joe, anything's possible.
He just puts the well being of Americans above the Catholic Church's superstitions. I know that's not exactly very Catholic, but it is patriotic.
What defines the perfect christian or catholic or muslim? Can anyone tell me? XD
There are so many denominations under each I can't tell who's full of crap and who's blessed...
Tell you what, if anyone of you can tell me that without debating it, then we can argue about misrepresentation in whatever office.
The republican p!ssed off the catholics with their Ryan budget. The Catholics sent a letter to Ryan complaining how cruel the republicans are.
I mean, really, you are going to take the food out of the mouths of children and take away aide for veterans and then take away your grandma's medicine and health-care to give Romney and his rich friends even more tax cuts?
But unfortunately the republicans only care about what the religious say when they agree with the republicans.
VOTE FOR AMERICA...VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT 2012
Could be he understands the church has nothing to do with the law of the land.
Tad, currently 71% of all Catholics in the US support gay marriage, so Biden is no different from the majority of Catholics in this country.
Tad: My thought exactly and I wonder if he also doesn't believe in our Constitution. If he doesn't believe in his own church, tells me he doesn't believe in our Constitution. No wonder President Obama has a "dark cloud"following him around everywhere. These people don't know what to believe anymore.
So?
ErinNJ:
If your statement is true then the number of CATHOLICS in this country is pretty small. The Catholic religion is not a smorgasbord religion that many Americans like to think it is! It is VERY dogmatic and demands that they follow the teachings of the Bible and the direction of the Holy See (Pope).
The Pope(s) have deemed Artificial Birth Control, Gay Sex and many other things Americans "want" to be a SIN against God! Catholics have NO CHOICE in the matter! It is "My Way or the Highway". Yes, they can go to confession and get sins absolved but if a Catholic partakes they are committing a SIN!
It doesn't say much for VP Biden's veracity if he can't be true to his God and/or Religion. If he can't be true to his God, how do we expect him to be true to us mere mortals?
Just for the record, I'm not a Bible Thumper but I do know quite a bit about the Catholic religion.
Uh huh. Because a person actually thinks and reasons out what his or her personal beliefs are instead of blindly following a bunch of old men who collect money and practice hypocracy while claiming that being gay is a sin...any of you really equate that to not following the Constitution?
Wow...a bit far-reaching, are you? Just for the record, it is none of your business how a person practices his or her religion, and this country is not a Christian country, so we'll just stick to the civil laws and not worry about Mr. Biden and his personal beliefs. If you eliminated all the Catholics who don't follow every single rule of the church that the old guys in robes made up, you would have empty churches...lol.
Gran Canyon - Obama only has a dark cloud following him when he's near a Republican.
Biden is required to be true to the country - not his religion and he is doing just that. His religion has nothing to do with the office of VP.
And, to whoever the nut was who said he went out and campaigned when his daughter and first wife were killed in an accident - YOU LIE. He was ready to drop out of the Senate race and had to be talked into continuing his run. You are a LIAR - pathetic!
Maybe if we had more people who believed in our Constitution, we wouldn't have so many of them trying to run the country according to ancient, patriarchal myths.
To all repubs, google FRANKLIN sex scandal.......Joe pissed off the pope, but the gay pedophile priests who are the loudest protesters of gays didnt...Not to mention all the evangelical ministers who spout hate towards gays,get caught with male prostitutes and such, and then there are the bachman types who are so obviously gay its funny, saying they can cure gays...and of course there are the avg. bigot repubs. who surf gay porn all day, then get mad because they are conflicted, just because your attraction to wieners and nuts makes you angry and ashamed does not mean other gays need to be. Why is the republican star now a pentagram? because bush jr. had it changed in 00...because he is satanic, and wants to bring about about armageddon...his advisors even said so... this is disraction from real issues, and no this is not important right now because it is going to change...
keep repugs out of my bedroom and social issues vote Obama and straight Dem ticket in Nov..Vote Dem or Independent period I'm sick of this right wing radical crap their unamerican.
I will not vote until there are changes...the republicans and Dems are on the same side... Only their blind followers are at each others throat...they want to divide the country so that we wont rise together against them all....Obama hangs out with the repubs all the time, outside of the whitehouse, not to mention he has the 2nd most republican policies in generations....He signed HR 347, 500 thousand humans thrown in private residential centers whole families indescriminatley rounded up...The use of executive power..., the re-upping of Drone slaughters that you dont hear about...the gun smuggling still going on...the prosecution of medical marjiuana when he said he wouldnt...Bailing out Stockbrokers...Mortgage lenders, and Letting BP get away with destroying the ocean, ignoring complaints of Gulf citizens....because of fake air and water tests...and illeagal spraying..Then awarding them 13 of 15 new drilling contracts worth trillions....Ignoring victims of Corporate pollution just like bush did with the Koch brothers......What a joke! They are all terrible people....
this is why George Clooney (The New Rock Hudson) helps obama raise money...its gives him a chance to meet men...under the typical liberal cover of deception...we know what goes on behind them closed doors.
Good one J !
I am sure handsome, talented George Clooney can meet men or women anywhere he wants.
What a crock he has to campaign for President Obama to meet men.
Poor Wilson, you are one sick puppy.
VOTE FOR AMERICA...VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT 2012
Maybe you ought to give your big head a chance to filter your comments before you come out in public.
Feeling a little jealousy there J?
Sounds like Tony and J both have crushes on Obama and George Clooney!
Biden must not care about the teaching of his Church. If it's only about "who you love," then where do you draw the line? Why isn't polygamy OK then? How about a man and his daughter or a brother and a sister having a right to marry? How about a man and his dog? It's only about "love," right?
The libs want there to be no God when making the laws of our country. God is too inconvenient. God is not changing fast enough for them.
Hey, people... we need to change for God not him for us.
"Want" has nothing to do with it:
...and there we have it, our first animal effer. I must admit I figured I'd hear about this sooner.
If Jesus walked among us and heard those preaching in his name and using the bible to condemn others for their "sins", he'd bow his name with sadness and shame.
If Jesus if had to vote in this coming election, I wonder who he'd vote for: the "Socialist Lib" or the "Mormon millionaire".
Mike, we draw the line where any civilized and just society would and should draw it. Legal marriage should be between 2 non-related, consenting adults, independent of their race or gender. I do do not see how this can be compared with bestiality, pedophilia, incest or polygamy.
Frankly, to follow the logic of your argument, African-Americans should still not be allowed to drink from "white" fountains, use "white" restrooms, or ride in the front of the bus. Because if you let them, you also have to allow horses to drink from fountains, cows to use your urinals, and goats to take public transportation. "Where do we draw the line", right?
Dude, polygamy IS okay in the Bible. Leviticus frequently refers to men and their wives, plural.
Mike, hun. no, it's not "about love." Your ridiculous questions have been answered on these vines dozens of times.
Why only "non-related adults".....isn't that imposing your morality upon related adults ?
Why only "two" ?!?! Isn't that restricting the freedom of those who cvoluntarily wish to follow polygamy ?
Why only "adults" ? Different cultures have a different definition of the age of adulthood. Why can you impose your own definition upon them ?
honore-3819091
I suspect he'd stay home.
Welcome to Mike's house, where men are men and dogs are scared.
Biden HAS to separate his Religion from his Politics. That's the essence of our Government, and the basis of American Patriotism... something the right-wing nutcases in the GOP (and their equally nutcase supporters) seem to have forgotten.
I'll return to my Party when they leave off their pandering to the radical Fascists, and return to their Moderate roots.
Kathy .. the right-wing is extremely obsessed with bestiality. I figure they must dream about it. Its very scary, really. I wouldn't leave them alone with my pets for a minute.
If only there was a shred of evidence that there is a God, then you might have a point. Evidence based rationality is a good thing, try it sometime.
I think it's the most disgusting thing this world can
embrace, and to allow it to happen is plain sickening. What is our world coming
to when a woman can marry a woman and a man can marry a man. This kind of life
is totally against nature, and our SO CALLED LEADERS to allow this is bull and should
be against it all the way. I damn sure know that I won’t be voting for this
idiot or anyone else that agrees to let this kind of nasty life to happen. The
ones who agree to same sex marriages are sick in the head and need to be
evaluated by a doctor and be committed.
How can a sexual orientation be "against nature" when it's a natural variation? Come on, Gary, please provide your peer-reviewed scientific sources.
I'd love to hear a response on that!
Toasty, seems there's no answer....unless it's from a "pray away the gay" group. Amazing.....
Oh, Gary, you poor poor man, I feel bad for you to live in such a shallow, one dimensional world. Sorrier still that any friends, or children or family members or coworkers would never confide their true sexual orientation to you. What a horrible way to live. So sad....
Truth be told, I doubt we'll see Gary again, judging by his post history. Like a pigeon, he just took a crap and flew away.
I'll give you an answer.
First your "logic" of comparing homosexuality to race. WRONG. Homosexuality is NOT a race, it's a type of behavior.
All behavior can be classified as good or bad.
A man no matter what color/race he is, is still a MAN.
A woman no matter what color/race she is, is still a WOMAN.
Your comparisons are fraught with error.
God made woman for man. NOT man for man.
You need to read badly sir. And I mean right now.
And I suppose your suggested reading would be the Bible?
And what did Jesus say about being gay? actually quote. I am christian and I am am really tired of the hate that "christians" spread.
I am tired of the continually push to make God the biggest abortionist of them all by claiming life starts at conception.
I am tired of of all this "oh sodom and Gomorrah" crap when Sodomites is a term for rapists and the biggest rapist in this country are,the Corporation Alpha Oculus Worldwide Group News! The Corporation - Full Movie
Homosexuality is confirmed to occur natural or do you support the idea that the animals are making a choice?..... Or are you one to cover your ears and deny science. God is the judge leave it to him and stop causing so much hate.
Also Does the Bible say the anything about hermaphrodites? Just curious.
@Toasty: Murder, rape, beastiality, and necrophelia all occur "naturally" in the animal kingdom, and obviously some humans really do wish to do those things, because the do them. So it is not a very powerful argument to say that homosexuality occurs "naturally". In fact, it would seem that the whole purpose of MORALITY is to distinguish good from evil and curb behaviors that might occur "naturally".
Motoricker, that you cannot differentiate between homosexuality/gay marriage -- which involves consenting adults -- and murder, rape, bestiality, and necrophilia -- which are illegal (for the most part) and involve victims and/or those who cannot or do not legally consent to such things -- says much about your level of ignorance.
No it is not a type of behavior it is an orientation.
Just as being Heterosexual is not a behavior.
When homosexuals have sex THAT is a behavior. The behavior is natural to their orientation.
It is not a choice, it is the way people are born.
Covetousness is a behavior.
Adultery is a behavior.
Theft is a behavior.
Lust is a behavior.
Being JUDGMENTAL is a behavior.
Being self-righteous is a behavior.
...and if it's a gay doctor???