"Don't you love this country? What a home this is, what grounds these are, the pool, the golf course," Romney told supporters. "Republicans come here and say everyone should live like this."

Wow, the real definition of out-of-touch-Elitism. This is real BARF material from Romney.

This guy wants to crush the rest of us with the Ryan Bill, while oozing this stuff at the wealthy.

HUEY in triplicate.

OMG, Feisty! Well, I'm glad Romney has four beautiful estates to choose from, because he will never live in the White House, that's for sure!

(Thank goodness, because Ann would probably redecorate the Blue Room in leopard prints, she has the most hideous taste, rarrrghhhh!)

I must be lost but isnt that how our country was built? What a sad statement by Fiesty that Democrats just want everyone to have a roof over their head? What? That is so sad that is best we can hope for is to have a roof over our head? What happened to celebrating success? Why is American Idol so popular because everyone dreams of being as talented as these people and get a record contract. What boy doesnt want to be the next Michael Jordan? What is wrong with wanting to work hard and own your own small business that is becomes a nationwide chain like Papa John's pizza. Romney is exactly right in his comment and there is nothing he should be ashamed about. Our country was built on self reliance, personal accountability and responsibility and yes a meritocracy. Obama and the Fiestys of this world want equality of outcomes for all (ie a roof over our head) but no reward for achievement, talent, ambition, hard work, investment etc and no consequences for the personal and economic or career choices and behaviors you make in life. Sorry Fiesty but I pick starting a Papa John's pizza and earning my success everytime.

Fiesty,

Where does it say that it is the Governments job to make sure everyone has a roof over there head.

You and those like you will never understand or represent the working class, because, Fiesty, you see them as victims of not being rich.

You want, what is not yours. And you ridicule those who prosper.

I don't think that is what was meant there Kirk. It isn't about not wanting people to be rewarded for working hard it is about people who have this type of life trying to tell the rest of us that they can relate. Live in a cold weather state and then have the decision to eat or keep the heat on, that was my childhood, not Mitts.

Kirk

When Romney's father was CEO of General Motors, his salary was three times higher than what this employees made.

Today's CEO makes 343 times more than his average workers.

It's called a growth in income inequality, and it has not resulted in a stronger economy. Consumer spending is what drives demand. The average worker has seen their salary decline or stagnate in the decade. Those ridiculous estates Mitt Romney so admires were bought at the expense of America's middleclass, and our nation as a whole. That's what's wrong with Mitt Romney's comment.

I'm glad the founder of Papa John's has made a success (although I'd like to know if there are any pizza moguls who are Democrats so I could support their products). I don't envy him that success---good for him for his achievement. However, I don't think that means he should pay a lower tax rate than the rest of us. Which reminds me, why won't Mitt disclose the rest of his tax returns? Could it be because he paid an effective rate even lower than 14% in them?

Where does it say that it is the Governments job to make sure everyone has a roof over there head

Where did I say it was the governments responsibility?

You and those like you will never understand or represent the working class,

You and those like you don't understand there is NO more middle class!

You can thank the policies of the I got mine F@ck you mentality which runs rampant amongst the Republican party!

You want, what is not yours.

NO - what I WANT is a level playing field!

Not a country where 1% continue to make obscene amounts of money while 99% struggle!

PS: "Papa John's" pizza SUCKS almost as bad as Godfather's!

Today's CEO makes 343 times more than his average workers.

It's called a growth in income inequality, and it has not resulted in a stronger economy. Consumer spending is what drives demand. The average worker has seen their salary decline or stagnate in the decade. Those ridiculous estates Mitt Romney so admires were bought at the expense of America's middleclass, and our nation as a whole. That's what's wrong with Mitt Romney's comment.

So what's your proposal Amy? All I see is that you want to tax incomes until you reach an "acceptable" level of equality. and it is the government that will decide what is acceptable. BTW does your dislike of CEO incomes extend to those in the arts and sports because I don't like the prices at Yankee Stadium.

Is it the governments function to decide what estate is ridiculous and what is "acceptable"? maybe they could mandate the maximum size of a room/building based on the number of occupants? Of course you don't want too many bathrooms as that would be unacceptable.

Fiesty, now we know what Republicans consider a worthy achievement -providing bad pizza to the masses, and making a killing in the process.

My definition of success is different. My successful relatives build beautiful furniture, create transcendent music, heal the sick, defend the government and nurture the young. Sadly, not a hedge fund manager in the bunch.

So Amy in 1999, is that how you felt too? CEOs were getting paid even more then under Clinton and it sure seemed like the middle class was prospering? What about 2005? Those estates were not built on the backs of the middle class that is just think progress BS to stir up campaign votes. Let me ask you. Albert Pujols makes thousands times more than the umpires and the ball boys in major league baseball. Did he steal from the middle class? What middle class did he steal from? This lack of understanding of basic economics and market based capitalism is astounding at times. The fix for bad pizza is dont buy it. Its great that your relatives did all of those things but let me ask you another question. Did they choose to do that? There is nothing stopping any of your relatives from becoming successful hedge fund managers except talent and ambition. There is nothing stopping your relatives from opening up Pappa Amy's pizza and working hard and making better pizza that people will buy. This constant complaining and whining about success is so shrill and anti american.

So Fiesty--what is unlevel about the playing field? Seems like the local Korean immigrants dont have a problem with opening their own small business and becoming a success. Is the field unlevel for you because of lack of talent, hard work, ambition so that you CHOOSE to not to pursue success?

Minooki--who cares if you can relate that has nothing to do with punishing success. Do you really relate to a biracial man who was primarily raised by either grandparents or in Indonesia and who has never worked a day in the real labor market? Do you relate a community organizer and Constitutional Law Professor who counted as his best friends a admitted domestic terrorist, a criminal in Tony Rezco and a pastor who blames everything on whitey and America? Do you really relate to this versus a success business person who happened to have been raised by wealthy successful parents (like that is so horrible)?

Steeler Fan--who cares what his effective tax rate was as long as it wasnt criminal? When you combine his effective tax rate on his capital gains and the corporate rate on the profits the companies he owns paid in taxes, its almost 50% so not sure I get this issue. Dont you think this is more about tax reform and broadening the base than the fact that Romney is very smart.

Fiesty,

You said the Democrates want a roof over your head. How do you do that.

I am middle class you arrogant socialist.

You want a level playing field. How?

You are going to have to take from one to give to another. You are a flag waving socialist.

You are a flag waving socialist.

I'll take being a flag waving socialist over a flag wrapped cross carrying fascist anyday!

“When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.” - Sinclair Lewis

Feisty, Amy, Steeler - the far righties on this site KNOW you are not putting anyone down for making a good income. Those of us who actually give a damn about people know it is about people making a living at the expense of others. We know it is about actually caring about our fellow man who right now may well be trying to figure out how to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table.

We know these are times when many good, hard-working people are struggling and cannot find jobs because there are not enough of them. We choose not to close our eyes to others struggles and pretend it is their own doing.

No one begrudges anyone their millions - not jealous, sorry. We do find it offensive when people ignore the plight of those whose situations are dire and put them down for it. It's about being caring - not clueless.

MRWSR - not one of us wants what is not ours. Most of us on this site work and do well for ourselves. What we actually want is to give those who are homeless a chance. The lines of people who want jobs is staggering. These are not people looking for a handout and to imply they are is disgraceful. It shows your lack of understanding of what is going on throughout not only our country but the world. You should be ashamed that you are so out of touch with reality.

Most of us are actually concerned about our fellow man and have no problem recognizing that assistance when someone is down should never be ridiculed.

You bit*h about the lack of jobs being added then put those without a job down. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.

I pity those of you who think you are too good to help others. It says more about you than it does those needing help. And, nothing it says is good.

You think you are the only ones who care?

You want to mandate giving. You can not do that. It is not the for the government to do. That is the difference between you and me. I go and help in any way I can. You can't make me or take money out of my check. People help people not the government.

Fiesty,

You have no ground to call me a facist. You talk with no accountability and really act like you are above others. Feel sorry for you.

Kirk-I CARE and I have just as much say as anyone else even though I may not have very much money!!! And yes, I can relate to someone who had to worry about how to pay for college and the rest of your drivel is just talking points. I DO NOT relate to someone who has never had to struggle.

MRWSR - You were the one ridiculing helping those less fortunate. You put yourself in the position of thinking you are better than those who have less and are struggling. From your own posts it is clear you feel those people are "beneath you." That attitude is pitiable. YOU are the one acting as if you are above others.

Again, most of us on this site work and do well. But I was brought up with values by parents who taught me that, when you do well, it is your responsibility to give a "hand up" to those who haven't - not a "handout." And, I would no more ridicule anyone who is less fortunate than me than I would tie my dog to the roof of my car. I know better. I know making more money doesn't make me "better" than anyone.

As a country we have always helped our less fortunate - until now. Now the arrogant "I'm better than those freeloaders" want to just have people suffer. It apparently makes them feel superior. What it really shows is how totally low-class they are. Romney is a prime example.

Again, your posts say more about you than it does those who are struggling and nothing it says is good.

Seeking Sanity--that is such emotional nonsense and the card always played to respond to fiscal sanity. How much is enough? Its always easy for you to spend other people's money. Nobody who is talking about self reliance and personal responsibility are also saying that we dont care. Based on my conversations with you earlier regarding unemployment, its you that is woefully out of touch with reality. Talked to my dad yesterday and he had 5 more people come in over the weekend looking for employment (which is unfortunate because the rate is over 14% in my hometown) but also said they wanted to start when their unemployment ran out. These are only $10 an hour jobs but its always amazing to me that people act like unemployment benefits dont impact behavior. Even Obama's own treasury secretary agreed that it does. You also seem to miss the fact that we have spent $16 trillion on the war on poverty and increased government assistance 80% since Obama has been in office, what do you have to show for it? Come on Seeking Sanity since you are in touch with reality? You are the same person who thinks everyone should get bailed out with taxpayer money if their mortgage is upside down regardless of the circumstances right?

Kirk - I don't intend to reply to your posts in the future. You twist everything; you can't remember what you post from one site to another and constantly contradict yourself; you're condescending when you clearly have not right to be; and you lie. You misquote what I say - knowing you are doing it.

Enjoy your life - you're not worth the energy.

Kirk - I don't intend to reply to your posts in the future.

Now you're learning GF! ;o)

I have had little Kirky on ignore for months - no sense wasting your time chasing "wag the dog"!

BTW: Nice posts above - you said it much more succinctly then I did! Thanks!

Minoki--who cares about talking points--facts arent drivel--I have no illusions about changing your mind but you should at least vote on the right set of facts. What does having to struggle or relating to them have to do with being President. Obama didnt have to worry about paying for college or any of that so stay within the facts. I am lost, so can you relate to Nancy Pelosi or John Kerry? They both have more money than Romney. Get out some because whether you have money has nothing to do with how you relate. There are plenty of really horrible poor, middle and rich people and vice versa.

Fiesty and Seeking Sanity--its almost a badge of honor for you Fiesty because as Jack Nicholson said "You cant handle the truth". Your shrill and small minded attacks on everyone that disagrees with you is just beyond the pale. Seeking Sanity, wow it must make you mad to have that thrown back at you like you do to others wow. But face it you dont reply to me because you never can or could. You are just frustrated when someone calls you out on your BS and doesnt play in the sandbox with your silly personal attacks. So far you havent shown one lie and everytime I challenge you to stand up and prove it you back off because you cant. I have never lied but yes guilty of condescension at some of your more outlandish comments but never lies. When either you or Fiesty can provide a critically thought out intellectual response rather than personal attacks then maybe I can give you some credit. Just hasnt happened yet.

Seeking Sanity,

I never ridiculed serving those in need. I have a strong difference in how to serve them.

I am sorry but you and others here are also quick to twist and read what they want on posts.

I have been poor, very poor. Have never taken a government hand out. Now things are way different and give alot of my time and money to charity. Because I have been blessed with the means to. People help people, not government mandates or more taxes.

MRWSR. -- That's correct, you can't legislate morality. So get your fascist theocratic hands off my privacy, freedom of choice, and right to pursue happiness on a level playing field.

fas·cism/ˈfaSHizəm/

Noun:

1. An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
2. (in general use) Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.

People help people, sounds like guns don't kill people, people kill people. The reasons the Catholic Church is against the Paul Ryan bill are numerous, with one being that the Church does not have the contributions to help so many who are needy. But even in good times you can't give the doctor a chicken for medical care or have a bake sale to pay for retirement.

The government has an important role beyond defense. The GOP/TP's failure to recognize this is their most basic FAILURE.

True,

Don't fit the definition thier, buddy. I am a conservative, Tea Party Patriot. Sad that you have that much hate and see me as that, you don't know me.

What is your vision of a level playing field? This would help me understand.

MRWSR. -- Maybe you self-affiliate with the Tea Party for fiscal positions prior to the religious-Right taking over, but even so, those fiscal positions are a twisted version of Libertarian thought that like Occupy could = anarchy if folks aren't careful.

If you're sincere, here's some recommended reading:

Free Lunch: How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government Expense (and Stick You with the Bill) by David Cay Johnson

Twilight of the Elites: America after Meritocracy by Christopher Hayes

To understand my frustration with the current GOP/TP, read:

It’s Even Worse Than It Looks: How the American Constitutional System Collided with The New Politics of Extremism” by Thomas E. Mann and Norman J. Ortnstein

Another thing you can do is stop watching FOX News, which along with Norquist, Limbaugh, the Koch Brothers, etc. are the tail that wags the dog.

Trust me Kirk you may say that it doesn't matter but it does. Obama sure the sh!t had to figure out how to pay for college through student loans, grants, student jobs and help from grandparents. THAT is the same way I had to pay for college. I want someone as president who can RELATE to the American people and our struggles. Someone who has never had to struggle won't care about about the middle class. You are right about one thing though, you will not change my mind just like I won't change yours.

Let me set the record straight. As a Democrat nothing could be further from the truth Alan. Pure bull$hit and you know it.

Oh, it's very true Dcia. That's the entire point of a centralized control government. Same health care benefits, same social security benefits, same medicare benefits, same student loan benefits, and the same roof over everyone's head. All federal government issued. All federal government controlled.

The Dumb Fux stumbled into Obama's "vision" where the government provides, while others pay. And for those that are provided for, that's the best they can ever expect to get.

Pure bull$hit, JAS1. While I'm sure there are people on the dole, there are many businesses on the dole as well. And you are aware of my stance on these matters.

I've seen dumb in my live but JAS1, Alan and kirk go way be on the meaning of dumb. You guys eat up this tea people Koch republican crap, and you are proud of it. Do you people not realize your lies are so outrageous no body takes your posts serious, we just laugh at you.

DCIA - Please explain to me then why people going on welfare is up and why there are more people on food stamps than ever before? Don't use the economy as your reasoning either... it doesn't bode well that those on the lower end of the economic ladder have fallen into the poverty level considering that the government was the major culprit of the housing bubble and the banking fiasco.

Can you also tell me why there are sometimes 2 year waiting lists for government housing? I finished building one of those in February. Before the complex was even finalized, there was a 1 year waiting list and they closed off all applicants. The neighborhood surrounding the complex consisted of single family homes... many of which had for rent signs on them. Please explain that to me.

Mo - please support your ideas with facts and not personal attacks.

@Mo

This is from Stiglitz, hardly a friend of the right as he praises OWS

It seems strange, in the midst of the Great Recession, when one out of six Americans who would like to get a full-time job is unable to get one, to see stores replacing low-wage cashier clerks with machines. The innovation may be impressive, profits may even be increased, but the broader economic and social consequences cannot be ignored: higher unemployment, lower wages for unskilled labor as the balance of demand and supply tilts more against workers, and greater inequality.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/05/02/joseph-stiglitz-the-99-percent-wakes-up.html

So far neither party has proposed even a first step in trying to solve this problem. I do know that the crap that comes out of the left is preposterous. Tax the rich more. For what? Simply to allow the displaced worker to survive on government largess? There is no solution coming from the left as to how to move the poor off of welfare. That is the objective. All you propose is greater taxes to increase the size of welfare. How are we supposed to take you seriously?

I don't want the government to provide houses for everyone. I would like the government to make sure that our economy provides opportunities for everyone to earn enough money to have decent housing.

Tax the rich more. :)

But nothing about giving it to government. I want to tax that highest bracket back to Ike-levels (90%) so they don't pilfer from their companies.

It's better for the economy if the wealth stays in the businesses and jobs, and not someone's bank account.

I want to discourage someone from pulling out 1million/year in pay, and instead encourage them to re-invest in their business.

Thus, I want to tax them as a pre-emptive measure to dissuade behavior which doesn't help the economy.

Voila.

A concise reason to tax the upper .1% a helluvalot more. They won't end up paying those exhorbitant rates, of course, but instead will just work on growth/R&D/jobs/etc.

Cheers!

Steeler Fan - I agree with you to a large degree... but how will that be accomplished when you have a president that is mostly anti-capitalism and anti-business? It is the free market that produces jobs, not the government. When you have government regulations stifling growth, creating stagnant hiring and are putting business out of profitability, how can this be accomplished.

There is pretty much one answer... Turn the government of "We the People" back from being the huge entity of "we are the government and we control everything."

Regulations? Nah. Ask any small business owner or even corporate exec.

The regs are inconvenient, but not the job-killer.

The job-killer is the same as the job-creator.

"Demand"

There are plenty of working poor people in right to work for less and less and less states on the dole. Anybody in Texas that works for the pitiful median income of $10.80 an hour, pays no federal taxes. Freeloaders! Right folks.

Oh yes. If there was any one state that was ready to go red-to-blue...Texas is it. You shouldn't be on this board, you should be out registering voters :D <no, seriously, you should be. That place is ripe for a change.>

teknishan - There is one caviot to what you want... if you want to return the high tax rates to the 1%, then you also have to re-install the tax credits, the exemptions, and the other write-offs that were included in those high tax rates. Really, if liberals are all about fairness, then they would agree to those things as well.

Rich people that pay little or no taxes are job creators, poor people who pay little or no taxes are freeloaders. Oh or is that poor republicans that pay little or no taxes are standing on their on two feet, but poor democrats that pay little or taxes are looking for a government handout.

If the majority of people in the South consider themselves republicans or conservatives, then the majority of welfare in those states is being doled out to republicans and conservatives. Some on this blog act like only black people, hispanics, and people that vote democrat are on the government teat.

I'm tired of paying 30% plus in taxes, to support freeloaders in right to work for less and less and less states that are too timid or lazy to go out and earn themselves enough money to owe any federal taxes.

I am totally willing to keep the standard exemptions. Aka - the Middle-Class exemptions.

Mortgage deduction on first house, health insurance, etc.

Any exemption that isn't useful to someone who makes under 100K, or to someone who doesn't have 500K in investments, can be tossed right by the wayside.

See...I couldn't care less about people > 250K or how much snivelling or whining they do. They've proven that, given an inch, they will take a mile. Fine. Now they get to pay the piper to live in the greatest nation on earth, with the largest military on earth, with the best secondary education system on earth.

Dangit Forrest! Voters! Registration! Get 'er done. No reason Texas shouldn't be blue save you are master's at disenfranchising your poor and middle-class. Go fix it! Get 'em regged up. We turn TX true blue...

and the republican party goes away forever.

Texas that place is ripe for a change...

Mas Respeto y Mas Poder.

Per Dallas Morning News April 30th 2012

GARLAND — Just in time for presidential elections in November, citizenship campaigns are rolling out for foreign-born residents who want to fully and finally bridge the distance between their birthplace and their adopted U.S.A.

Pablin Marin, a glass cutter by day, whips through the civics lesson in his citizenship class at a Garland church, leading his classmates on the mission of the U.S. Supreme Court.

“The Supreme Court makes sure that laws are consistent with the Constitution,” he says, reading from a prepared statement in his class. “If they are unconstitutional, they are not valid.”

Citizenship classes like this one are producing results. Naturalization applications are increasing. For the first two months of 2012, citizenship applications are up 21 percent over the same time last year, according to the federal immigration and citizenship agency.

The prospect pool is deep: About 8.1 million immigrants with legal status have been in the U.S. long enough to apply for naturalization. In Texas, almost 900,000 immigrants are eligible, according to federal immigration data.

Voting motivates Marin, a 32-year-old native of northern Mexico who wears a lime-green T-shirt over jeans. He takes careful notes in class and seems relieved to be away from the drug violence back in his home state of Durango.

“I want to be part of the United States,” he said. “I can choose my president.”

Four years ago, a record number of people — 1 million — naturalized in time for November elections, but beating a large fee increase partly swelled the surge. Like then, tough immigration proposals play a role.

Mas respeto, more respect, is even the motto for one coalition campaigning for those with legal permanent residency, or green cards, to become citizens.

Great point, Forrest. Many people with families working at Walmart full time get government support. A well documented fact. A person with a family working at a right to work wage would also need help to get by. These idiots are taking us backwards. Time to vote em' out of office.

DCIA it is hard to help people that don't want to help themselves.

The history of the labor movement should be taught in every school across this country. America is a living testimonial to what free men and free women, organized in free democratic trade unions, can do to make a better life. We ought to be proud of it! HHH 1968.

United we stand, divided you beg.

Mo--we are responding to the literal words that Fiesty said and I have heard True Patriot say it over and over and now look at Tek, he doesnt want people to earn a market based pay and he has not idea what he is referring to when he wants tax rates at 90%. You do realize those rates didnt apply to many types of income and the total percentage to taxes and effective rates for the rich were far lower then than they are now. The middle class actually paid more tax back then. This concept of taxing corporations more or keeping earnings inside is just job killing and anti competitive and accomplishes none of the things you hope for.

Mo we cant help if Obama and the progressives own words and policies are anti self reliance and personal accountability. Its not like we make this stuff up.

Maybe I should say:

Collectively you bargain, divided you beg.

Q. Say Kirk if people in the South are earning a market based pay then why do workers in a BMW plant in Germany make much more than workers in a BMW plant in America.

A. Because the right to work for less and less and less has lowered their market value.

They made themselves cheap labor for Germany.

Kirk If US tax laws are so burdensome on business how come the Germans and Japanese build plants in the Southern US.

Because obviously it has nothing to do with being overtaxed by the US Government, they love the cheap labor. The wages are obviously disproportionately lower enough to offset any tax burden you complain of.

Forest, I dont disagree that cheaper labor had a small part but the bigger reasons were twofold. First, the dollar became alot cheaper against the Euro and Yen so that helps foreigners invest in this country. Almost think of it as if they are buying our assets because we are cheap. For example if you go to Florida right now, every plane coming in from international locations is filled with wealthy europeans and asians looking to buy Florida real estate because the dollar is so cheap and the appearance that the values are distressed. Second, you forget that all foreign countries dont tax foreign earnings. At the time many of these investments were made, Germany and Japan had higher corporate tax rates than the US so earnings in the US would be subject to the lower US tax. Now its reversed, as Japan just reduced their corporate tax rate and Germany did awhile ago. The US is the last country to do so in this global competition for business. I truly dont think Obama gets it which is why we will lose globally to our foreign competitors.

So you have it backwards, the Germans and Japanese had a triple benefit, lower US taxes at the time (not anymore), much lower dollar and yes cheaper labor but primarily cheaper benefits which allows them to sell cars cheaper against their competition. Not sure what is wrong with this.

By the way, I think if we lowered our corporate tax rate, we could continue to attract foreign investment as our dollar continues to get devalued because our debt situation. But at the same time our tax rate has become a big impediment. Aon just moved to London because Great Britain has reduced their corporate tax rate to I think its 26% and they dont tax foreign earnings which this will save AON $200 million a year in taxes. Global compaines will continue to look to leave the US if they have substantial foreign earnings.

JAS - Hilarious! Only problem is, Obama took all of them and plans on using them to avoid paying an electricity bill after he's ejected from the White House.

anaxgnosis - I don't think you can use the word Romney and truth in the same sentence. Just sayin.....

Alan -- My opinion on these matters are well documented. You know it Alan.

The truth is, for moderates, there is a clear path forward. I'm on that path. If you want to stick to BS get out of the way, otherwise, get real and join the reasoned.

My opinion on these matters are well documented. You know it Alan.

So you won't even answer a simple philosophical point on whether a flat tax is fair or whether a progressive tax system attempts to achieve equality of outcome? I'm not asking for specifics. I am asking for an opinion as to why you think a progressive tax system is fair.

This is basically what this years election is about. By changing the tax system will we achieve higher growth in the economy, because without higher growth there is no chance of maintaining the entitlements we all want.

Hopefully it won't be about dogs, spouses clothes or who killed UBL.

Please defend your position or there is no point in having a debate and we will just speak past each other.

Sorry Alan everybody on this thread knows you're just using one of Karl Rove's tactics. Not working Next.

Sorry Alan everybody on this thread knows you're just using one of Karl Rove's tactics. Not working Next.

Yet another fool. If you cannot support an argument why do you even bother posting?

Alan---is it a fair tax rate when you put money in the bank and it earns interest and that is taxed at 15% while someone like me who is self-employed pays up to 30%? Add to that I pay an additional 15% in self-employment taxes (because self-employeds pay both parts of FICA). Most people wish their tax rate could be lower but what troubles me is to give certain types of income a preferential rate that, up until Bush had never happened before.

1 million/year.

At that point, make it redundant to earn another red penny.

Still better than the FDR tax-rate (100% @ 337,000$ in 2010 dollars), but punitive enough that it's not worth withdrawing that much cash.

Alan---is it a fair tax rate when you put money in the bank and it earns interest and that is taxed at 15% while someone like me who is self-employed pays up to 30%? Add to that I pay an additional 15% in self-employment taxes (because self-employeds pay both parts of FICA). Most people wish their tax rate could be lower but what troubles me is to give certain types of income a preferential rate that, up until Bush had never happened before.

I understand the argument that CG and dividends is money that has already been taxed as income, however, at this time of severe deficits I believe this should be changed, at least for the very wealthy. So no, I don't think it's fair right now. At the same time there should be an exemption for lower deposits. I don't think Granny having $10,000 in the bank should be taxed at all. But that would open up a loophole for some smart tax attorney.

On the FICA, as SS is basically being paid from general revenues I would end at least the employees contribution, and have a starting tax rate of 8% - 10%. I like the idea of eliminating the employers side as it may help hiring, but I suspect employers would just pocket the savings.

Alan -- Why don't you explain to me why a 401K is taxed as regular income when withdrawn yet hedge fund managers enjoy a 15% rate on their income and gains. Or tell me why they encourage you to buy a home and tell you it's an investment, yet fail to allow you the same write-offs an investor or landlord enjoys.

It's all BS Alan. Understand now? Clean the damn code up NOW!

Clean progressive taxes. Progressive is proportional is this instance and fair, IMO. Any thing else is regressive in nature, IMO.

Happy now?

@DCIA

I don't know anybody who tries to defend the carried interest loophole. More than the Buffet rule this should be closed immediately.

Believe or not Romney agrees with your point on investor/landlord write offs. I would go further though, why should you get a write-off for buying house at the expense of a renter? I know it is not politically possible to change this right now but from a philosophical view I've always considered this unfair.

But nothing you have said argues for a progressive tax code over a flat tax.

Alan,

My Opinion - I don't believe that a flat tax is, here comes that word, fair. A person making $10,000 a year with a flat 10% tax rate will be greater affected by it then a person making $100,000. Even if food or other necessities are exempt in some way a person of limited economic means will be greater affected by the flat tax than the more affluent person.

Yes our tax system is set up to be progressively higher as one's income increases. It could be argued that those more well off use the benefits that this country offers more. Whether it is infrastructure to ship their products, or the energy distribution grid that they use to produce them.

I don't have articles or statistics to prove my point, we are talking opinion here. On another note, with all these tax cuts and the more that are being proposed by the right, I don't see how they have helped during our recovery that those on the right call anemic.

On another note I think you are wrong about the other comment you made that Democrats want pure economic equality regardless of merit and work ethic. As other said we want more opportunities for people to rise to the middle class. It is only realistic that not anyone can be rich but hopefully everyone can have the opportunity with education and hard work to get the American dream.

The american dream for Romney appears to be to have a mansion, buy Munch's "scream" etc. The american dream for others is to buy a house, send your kid to college and save a nest egg.

Alan -- Like it or not I think a progressive tax is better than a regressive.

Romney is wrong. My point is clean up the code. Simple, clean. We don't know what the hell is going on in that code. It is CORRUPTED beyond repair.

The Romney team came out and said that the "carried interest loophole" was a tough one cause the devil was in the details. In other words, not going to happen.

In a WSJ piece a month or so back, the President is on record saying he supports cleaning up the individual tax code. Can't wait for the day he calls out the right wingers on this issue. They will be screaming for their handouts, guaranteed.

@Dog

I agree with most of your objectives, but look at the other posts here and you see that they lean towards equality of outcome not equality of opportunity. I am not a fan of the flat tax but I don't know if I agree that a progressive tax is "fairer", however, at this point I don't think it's reasonable to argue against higher rates for higher earners simply because of the deficit mess we're in.

My problem with the Democrats argument right now is that they want more revenue to maintain the current spending system and I think that has to change. Welfare cannot be permanent and multi-generational. There has to be a better plan to move people off welfare and into work. The Republicans plan of cutting welfare is not a plan either. There has to be some component of education and re-training.

The Romney team came out and said that the "carried interest loophole" was a tough one cause the devil was in the details. In other words, not going to happen.

Then they are wrong and I disagree with them.

Agree. We can't continue multi generational welfare. Training and education can be a way to combat that.

As far as spending and taxes agree and disagree. You feel tax reform should come via a reduction in loopholes and broadening the base by lowering taxes rates. I think the current system (progressive rates) can be kept intact, loopholes eliminated. Capital gains taxed at an income rate relative to their salaried rates. Only other thing I would change everyone goes back to Clinton rates.

I agree the added revenue has to go to addressing the deficit start making tough decisions and proposing solutions to improve/prolong big three - SS, Medicare, Medicaid.

Absolutely.

in 10 years, when the grand-kids are old enough, dig out the album and show it off a bit.

"Look what I had the balls to do back in 2012..."

After all, let's call a spade a spade. Most people don't have the balls to get stuck on a ticket and have their personal life 'Virginially Probed'.

LESS safe
MORE broke
LESS employed
MORE debt
LESS educated
... but our voters seem MORE entitled...

Now we are being played by Russia like drum. Come on folk's.

The Romneys are trying to convince us that they can understand the problems of people who make a choice between paying a medical bill and buying groceries. I just don't see someone who spends $1,000 on a tee shirt understanding that there are people who make those kind of choices. The Ryan budget, praised by Mitt as "marvelous" would bring back the donut hole for seniors on Medicare. Those folks won't be buying $1,000 tee shirts--they'll be figuring out which medication to take this month.

I am not jealous of any successful person's wealth or lifestyle. But that estate with its fabulous gardens and pool and golf course was made from money that working people spent for pizzas and I wish the Republicans acknowledged the challenges those people face.

Ramboet I don't know why don't you ask the First Lady about her $540 sneakers she wore to serve at a food bank. Can you explain or justify how that is different?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/29/michelle-obama-wears-silv_n_193138.html

Can you explain or justify how that is different?

For a starter, her husband didn't make his millions as a vulture capitalist!

Poor Obama was a lowly community organizer, remember?

Poor Obama was a lowly community organizer, remember?

From what I read earlier I thought he made his millions writing fiction!!

Up yer kilt!

Alan - you didn't "up" anyone. Just look stupid as always.

Alan - you didn't "up" anyone. Just look stupid as always.

And you are behind the curve as always.

http://www.upyerkilt.net/

Alan - no one is EVER behind you! You prove daily that only the ignorant support the GOP!

Alan - no one is EVER behind you! You prove daily that only the ignorant support the GOP!

Is this some sort of insult? You really should stop the insults because they're pretty lame and juvenile. You come over as a mental retard actually and I'm sure the President thinks of you when he's bowling those gutter balls.

The GOP is no better nor worse than the party of donkeys. Here is the latest pearl of wisdom from the super smart senate candidate in Massachusetts, a product Harvard law school I believe.

Warren: "My Aunt Bea has walked by that picture at least a thousand times, remarked, that her father, my pappaw, had high cheekbones like all of the Indians do, becuase that's how she saw it, and she said 'your mother got those same great cheekbones and I didn't.' She thought this was the bad deal she had gotten in life."

Lizzie, when you're in a hole stop digging.

Alan - when you stoop to using words like "retard" you show exactly who you are. What a pathetic level to stoop to. I though everyone by now understood how offensive and really pathetic it is to use a word like that but I guess you didn't get or didn't understand the message.

If you want to talk lame and juvenile that's definitely you. Add to that uneducated and uninformed and we're getting closer to the complete picture of who you are. Actually "gutter" would be a step up for you but it's certainly something to aspire to. Aren't you just embarrassed to be you?

when you stoop to using words like "retard" you show exactly who you are. What a pathetic level to stoop to

Have you read the posts of a few of your Vine "freinds" the use of "retard" pales in comparison to some of their recent posts, and I have a feeling you know the ones I am talking about. Have you given them the same advice?

Mo,

Thats the pot calling the kettle black.

@Ramboet I personally don't care what either wear as long as they can afford it and it isn't coming out of my pocket. I was just following your lead of making an issue out of it. You seem to have different rules and justification depending whether a person has a R or D behind their name. Just trying to understand how you rationalize that. I find the "Do as I say not as I do" mentality confusing.

I am more worried about Obama shoving $16 Trillion dollars out the backdoor between 2009 and 2011 than the white house couple's stupid spending.

He then passed another bailout to the same people on Dec 25th 2001 for another half a trillion dollars.

Let's quit looking at the "small stuff" or should I say microscopic in perspective.

You are a mindless party-goer. You attack on Romney for something that is a total non issue for you when a Democrat does it. Your hypocrisy is showing. Why don't you remove your political party hat before it sucks the rest of your brains out.

Why do they let this "feisty redhead" person post here?

It's called freedom of speech - whether YOU like it or not!

That is one hell of a coincidence seeing as how I don't remember seeing one other person even being first twice, much less every time they post.

Slow & stupid is NO way to go through life... junior!

just think it demeans the entire post to have "insider" people trying to command their own posts

Don't like it?

Too @!$%#ing bad - who exactly is forcing you to come here?

I am sick & tired of the tin foil hat crowd & their conspiracy theories - get a life & quit your bitching!

With these planted posters given "front and center seating" it becomes obvious what the networks agenda is.

Here is a novel concept - PROVE IT!

Tell us, what kind of cheese do you prefer with your WHINE?

Gee, what an intelligent response to an obviously rigged situation. You sound just like this administration......

""We do what we want with your money, if you don't like it...too @!$%#ing bad."

You "redhead person" are an accessory to the crimes this administration is engaged in. You are a plant from inside MSNBC and it is obvious. Do you really expect anyone to believe you have "the fastest keyboard in the west" and just manage to post first every time you engage a post?

Yep, you must be talking to the same morons that believe in Weapons of Mass Destruction, we are being attacked by Bedouin goat herder tribes, we have to bail out every international banker on the planet, we have to invade and occupy every country that has oil, destroy the 4th amendment, pass a zillion Executive Orders destroying the Bill Of Rights..... and every other trumped up pack of lies this administration came up with.

It is obvious you are an accessory or "tool" of this press corps. Only a fool would believe you have some NASA made keyboard that allows you to always post first on every post you engage.

Adams101

Judging by the the times and especially frequency of her posts she is either a paid blogger or she has an astonishing amount of free time.