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Families of the victims of gun violence gathered Monday -- five years to the day since the Virginia Tech massacre -- on Capitol Hill to warn against expanding concealed carry laws.
Thirty-two family members of individuals who were victims of gun violence joined Dan Gross, the president of the Brady Campaign to End Gun Violence, and Virginia Rep. Jim Moran (D), all of whom spoke passionately outside the Capitol about their belief that the nation lacks levelheaded gun laws.
They were pushing specifically against a recently-introduced bill in the Senate that would expand the legality of carrying concealed weapons across state lines.
“They have wanted to and have been successful in this Congress in expanding concealed carry laws…here in Congress and in far too many statehouses across the country, their side is in fact winning," Moran said, warning that passing the new legislation would risk "loosening already porous gun laws."
Centrist Democratic Sens. Mark Begich (AK) and Joe Manchin (WV) last month introduced the “National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2012.”
The legislation would mandate that each state that allows for concealed weapons consider the permit of another state valid. For example, if a Florida resident came to New York, their Florida permit to carry a concealed weapon would be considered legal. Presently, each state dictates their own concealed permit laws; however, some states have pre-existing reciprocity agreements with others.
The Senate bill is a companion to a law the House passed, 272-154, last November.
The Brady Campaign has sought to frame the argument through the recent shooting of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin. They call the law introduced by Begich and Manchin the “George Zimmerman Armed Vigilante Act” after Martin’s shooter, George Zimmerman, who despite past arrests for domestic violence was legally able to have a concealed weapons permit in Florida. The Brady Campaign and gun control Democrats have suggested that a national law dictating each state honors the concealed permit of others will lead “to a race to the bottom” regarding gun laws.
“Arming dangerous people just to support a lobby that sells guns, that is shameful, it’s immoral and it’s almost criminal," the Brady Campaign's Gross said. "That’s why we’re here in DC this week to demand Congress make abundantly clear whose vision they support. The NRA’s dark paranoid vision of guns just about anywhere in anyone’s hands? Or our vision of an America where tragedies like ours or the 32 others that will happen today no longer happen.”
The NRA counters these assertions in a statement: “A state's laws governing where concealed handguns may be carried would apply within its borders.
They added: “In contrast to dire predictions from anti-gun groups, Right-to-Carry laws have been enormously successful. Interstate reciprocity will serve as a fundamental protection of the right to self-defense by providing people with the ability to protect themselves not only in their home states, but anywhere they travel where carry concealed carry is legal.”
So far there is no scheduled debate on the bill in the Senate.
Despite some high-profile incidences of gun violence over the past two years, specifically one in Tucson Arizona that killed six and critically wounded former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ), gun control advocates have had a tough time in the 112th Congress. A bill proposed by Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) that would have outlawed long magazine clips, similar to the ones used in the Tucson shootings, never saw the House floor as the House GOP leadership declined to move forward toward a vote.
The 32 family members of victims of gun violence, including those who were killed at Virginia Tech, have a busy day on Capitol Hill. They’re scheduled to meet with Sen. David Vitter (R-LA) and House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA), both of whom hold an “A” rating from the NRA.
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I can't believe it's already been 5 years since the senseless tragedy!
May some good come out of this in the form of sensible & responsible gun legislation...
Peace & Comfort to all of those who lost loved ones on that horrific day!
How about they make a new (and to stay in-line with their other laws; unnecessary, pointless and fixes nothing that was a problem in the first place) that says it's only legal to shoot someone that also has a concealed weapon.
Let them shoot each other and leave the rest of us alone.
I guess nobody would know who had the weapons, because they're concealed.
There has been no new gun legislation for these 5 years, that's for sure. There is not likely to be new gun legislation no matter who wins this election. The laws we have certainly aren't being followed to the letter of the law.
The NRA should go back to what it used to be, a sporting organization. If you don't hunt with it, you don't need it. Nobody needs hand guns, automatic weapons, or semiautomatic weapons.
I am sure these people who have suffered from their losses for the past 5 years would welcome these changes.
When the Republicans took over state government in Maine in 2010, they tried to make it legal to carry a gun into the state house - until a mentally ill Republican legislator lost it in a parking lot, waving a gun around and threatening people. Then, the legislature re-thought their plan, and decided to let the ban stay.
Republicans: slow learners.
I hunt with Hand Guns.
Besides an outright ban by the looney left, they don't even know what "sensible & responsible gun legislation" is.....DumbFux
Good thing there are conservatives and the NRA to protect the homeland and from thugs! Whew!
Right Amy, so when THEIR hides were in danger, they gave it some thought. So now a Florida carry permit would count in New York It's a little weird. This new legislation looks like the old fugitive slave law, where if a person's slave escaped to Pennsylvania, a free state, that slave would return to his or her master. Shouldn't republicans in New York complain about their state's rights being violated on this point? Soon I expect to see people openly packing when they pick up the kids at school and then go to the ice cream stand for some quality time. Mom, Dad, Son, daughter, and Smith and Wesson.
.......and Ms. Fluke doesn't need me to pay for her rubbers...lol....what a slippery slope you travel upon when YOU think you know what's what and want your neighbor needs!
DumbFux
roc, you don't need to hunt with a hand gun.
Michael, there is no slippery slope when discussing a woman's birth control vs. your AK 47.
Vitter and Cantor hold an A rating from the NRA....Wow!
I wonder what will they say to the family members.....
NRA have gone off their rockers.
But they're payed to shill for Republicans, so not much you can do about them.
Obama let guns on state parks. More than Bush did for gunowners.
Just sit back and ask yourself..."What if these people aren't really out to get me?"
Overcome your fear, man. It's the path to the Dark Side, you know.
Wayne, Why should I not have the choice to hunt with a handgun over a long gun? Feedom of Choice? Do you do things you don't need to do?
Because a Rifle was designed as a tool. You can hunt, protect, or kill other people with it.
A handgun was designed solely to kill other people.
That's why.
What if these people aren't really out to get me? Hmm Tell that to the victims of muggings, car jacking, robbery, sexual assault, Etc Etc Etc.
A car is a tool, how many have been killed by drunk drivers?
roc, maybe what you need is a surplus 105 howitzer. A bolt action rifle will do the job better, and at least anyone watching you will know you are packing.
Face it, handguns were designed strictly for killing human beings, and nothing else.
Sometimes we have choices we would be better off without. This is why we are not offered the choice to legally shoot up on heroin. A world without handguns would be a brighter place.
Your truck analogy is ludicrous. When you play "Clue," you learn you can kill someone with a wrench or a candle stick. I'm sure a Green Beret could teach you how to kill someone with a slinky.
The NRA found some weak minded Republicans to sell there wears. It's all about the money and Republicans fell into there trap. I have a co worker who hates Obama because the NRA say's he might do something against guns. How many bullets per second does it take to kill a deer?
The NRA has republicans shaking in there boots afraid of speaking the truth about what automatic rifles are really made for...TO MAKE MORE PROFIT.
Ban Hand guns Ok lets see. A criminal does not obey laws henceforth term criminal. Would a criminal obey hand gun ban?
So, according to Luke's article this wasn't so much a memorial, a remembrance of lost loved ones as it was an opportunity to push the political agenda?
Wow ... the left never does that!
And how is that "sensible & responsible gun legislation" working out for ya in Chicagoland?
You guys reclaim the murder capital of the US yet?
How do you guys compare to the "crazy" states, huh?
Tell me, how is having educated, trained, tested and licensed, sensible and responsible Americans having the right to defend themselves, their families and others from mad men not sensible or responsible?
Duh ... What law has ever been followed to the letter ... that hasn't been broken?
Yea, and nobody needs birth control pills, especially free birth control pills.
Yet if women don't use the protection of birth control pills in certain situations, women stand a better chance of getting pregnant in much the same way that people who don't use the protection of firearms in certain situations stand a much worsr chance of being seriously hurt or killed.
Hand guns? Like there wouldn't be sanitation problem on the streets if libs were to see Americans walking around with rifles and shotguns? (The good news is that there would be less crime if criminals saw all the guns)
Automatic weapons?
And how often are people killed with M-240s, MP-5s, etc.? That a real prob Wayne?
Semi-automatic weapons?
Like all the police carry now? Like Gabbie Giffords has?
Why should a women be limited in her right to protect herself by having only 4-5 difficult double-action shots as opposed to 10-14 shots?
What would you prefer ... flint-locks, cap and ball ... if she missed her first shot ... too bad she had her chance to not die?
Do you guys not realize that the fastest growing segment of shooters/firearm owners is women?
What is wrong with you people ... women don't have the right to protect themselves and their families?
I don't need the NRA, or any other group for that matter, to love the Constitution of the United States.
Why don't you believe in it?
Sean automatic rifles?
Well roc, no they won't, but if you only allow guns that are allowed for hunting and don't make any new ones, the supply will eventually dwindle through law enforcement. Melt them all down. Now go buy yourself a nifty new deer rifle and throw that nasty man killing toy of yours into the furnace.
I am a gun owner myself and collect historic long arms only. All of them were around when McKinley was shot by some nut with a handgun.
Heartfelt thoughts to those who lost loved wons at VA Tech and all the other schools and businesses where mass murder has occurred. These acts used to be rare; now they seem common. I don't hold out much hope that Congress has the gumption on either side of the aisle to actually do something to make it harder to obtain guns. The NRA is powerful, so powerful that good sense left the building years ago. As I've said before, I am not anti-gun but I am anti-making it easier and easier for people to commit violent acts. No law can stop a determined person but there's nothing wrong with background checks and waiting periods for people. There's nothing wrong with limiting the size of magazine clips.
The NRA is very good at convincing people they need more guns to protect themselves from all the other guns. Assault weapons are super, duper weapons to own and why limit the size of the magazine clip. For sometime now, the NRA has been pushing to weaken the existing concealed weapons laws.
The NRA is the most powerful lobby in the country. They are not a "gun club"; they merely are the voice behind those who manufacture guns. The NRA doesn't give a rat's backside about the 2nd amendment, they only care about pushing the legislation that would benefit those companies which manufacturer guns and ammunition--the more guns and ammunition sold, the better for their bottom line. The NRA uses the 2nd amendment as a weapon of choice and they use it by stirring the fearful into frenzy.
just remember we have constitutional right to own a gun but there does come a limit to what type of guns we should be legally able to own
me and my dad own multiple guns as a collection we have 15-20 rifles we have 2-3 shotguns and we have 5-6 pistols we even have several black powder rifles (black powder is considered as a explosive so it is regulated so its hard to get) ya it might be excessive but we just like to go out to a range and shoot our guns we also hunt with them AND there are MANY people like us so banning guns will be near impossible
Guns are just a tool it takes a person to use that tool if they didn't have gun they would find another way to kill, and there are many ways to kill
just my 2 cents worth here
Women tend to be better with a handgun then a man in a lot of cases.
Roc, What the heck is that about? That adds nothing to the conversation. It is nonsense.
Wayne were there not assassinations committed with some nut and a rifle? Do we ban rifles under that pretense?
Wayne,
I agree with you on automatic and semiautomatic weapons, but not on hand guns. A few years back I was chased down my driveway by two men. I was able to get to my house, lock the door, grab my husband handgun, and call 911. They where pounding on the door and windows, I yelled out that I had a gun and I was prepared to use it. They left, and a few minutes later the police arrived.
I have never been so afraid in my life, never. Without my gun , what could I have done to protect myself?
Wayne, didnt you read the last two lines of Bob's post?
roc, see 1.15
Thetotas, guess without a gun you could have dialed 9 11 and then thrown your cell phone at the assailants.
I generally don't read Bob's posts. There is no need to do so, just like nobody needs handguns.
Wayne, 1.15 What?
roc, that would be the post numbers. Your last one was 1.32.
Wayne is there a need to read yours then?
Absolutely not. You may stop whenever you please.
I read 1.15 my question is What?
thetotas, all that proves is you could shout loud enough that you had a gun and the two guys ran away; you didn't need the gun to yell that you had one. Ever occur to you that they ran away not because you claimed to have a gun but because they figured you had called 911 and they didn't stick around to get caught?
That is the point, ESPECIALLY FOR WOMEN who are so much smaller and less able to physically defend themselves from a man.
Btw thetotas, if they had come in ... most would be much better off with a semi-automatic handgun instead of a revolver, given that they shoot and are familiar with the weapon (as ALL should be).
Jody,
Really?
'America doesn't need guns ... all we have to do is say we have a gun!'
What a ridiculous and dangerous argument ...
Gosh ...what could go wrong?
@Jody, Simple logic stumps some people.
How would you rid the world of handguns including the manufacturing of such? None for Military or Law enforcement
This is getting tedious roc. The military manages to manufacture lots of weapons even NRA members can't get a hold of. I think the same concept can be applied here.
wayne jody i like your views on stuff but this argument you are going to lose
Jody, what if they did not run and entered premises prior to police arrival? Throw your cell phone at them? Simple Logic?
In the political spectrum I will certainly lose this argument. There are lots of laws that are not fair or just, and many don't even make sense. God willing I will live to a ripe old age, and I will need none of the weapons discussed above to do so. One of the laws we have that does make sense is freedom of speech. I exercise it often.
NRA cant get a F 22, Could a criminal get a hand gun smuggled into the U.S.? ( If banned here ) Cocaine and heroine sure find their way across our boarders.
If one has to take a test and be licensed to drive a car, why not the same kind of rules for gun ownership? Just asking.
Wayne glad you do just try to understand that many people like to have guns as a collection and that is it like me and my dad
but because some lunatic takes a gun and shoots people the gun is being demonized as a bad thing The gun doesn't shoot itself it takes a person to shoot it and if a person is crazy enough to kill people no amount of laws to prevent him from getting a gun will work he can go to the black market and buy a gun
that doesn't mean we shouldn't regulate what types of guns people can own and make it hard for people to own guns
There should be a way to deal with the guns bought at gun shows. That might be a good place to start.
phinephancy-4252115
well there is something like that when you buy a gun you have to give your thumb prints and they can make a record of the buy. so if the gun or your prints show up at any crime scene they can track you its not the most perfect way but it makes it very difficult to buy guns legally
and statistically more people die in cars every day then from guns every month( this doesn't include war zones)
annoyedperson,
I was thinking of some kind of skill test, maybe a written gun safety test? I realize more people die in car crashes, but I am trying to think of a way to keep the gun deaths down. And a person stands a better chance of surviving a car crash than a GSW.
Gun Shows?
The greatest threat is not gun shows and gun shops, it is a liberal ideologue running the federal government and Justice Department.
Regardless how libs feel about guns, how many deaths etc., nothing is more immoral and wicked, no single act has done more harm, nothing more callous and evil than Obama's "Fast and Furious."
To literally sacrifice thousands of innocent lives ... all in pursuit of his political agenda .... is despicable.
Most libs will stick their heads in the sand, deny it, deflect and distract, but only morons and idealists will actually defend it.
bob,
I have to admit, I haven't really followed the "Fast and Furious" thing that close. I do know the whole idea started in the previous administration (still no excuse for continuing it). Guns are bad news - period. And thinking that you can track the arms sales is ridiculous. Heck, we can't track gun sales here in the US.
Thanks...I'll just use that little bit of wisdom and remind folks of Iraq next time they think about voting Republican.
Jody,
all that proves is you could shout loud enough that you had a gun and the two guys ran away; you didn't need the gun to yell that you had one. Ever occur to you that they ran away not because you claimed to have a gun but because they figured you had called 911 and they didn't stick around to get caught?
Are you kidding me, of course I did, but I was being chased by two men, I really didn't have time to debate myself.
My point is, if they didn't take off, and they broke down my door, what would I do then?
In Wis, there are requirements including things like classes to get a carry permit, to go hunting etc besides a background check if you purchace a gun no matter what type.
Thetotas, Throw your phone at them?
I love me some open-carry laws, because no man with a pistol is going to whip it out when the senorita across from him is slinging a shotgun on her back. Ain't gonna happen.
One shot kills are reserved for hollywood. So are instant deaths inflicted by bullets. I seen a man shot in the heart get up and run 2 blocks before falling over...
And I also love bullet tagging. Yanno, wherein we tag the serial number to bullets and then register those bullets to a gun-owner?
That's what I love.
Phine
not much have you seen the way people drive anymore its insane. my dad faces death more times on the road because of insane drivers then he has had from a gun, 6-7 times a week he has a close call. so he feels that cars are a whole lot more dangerous then a gun,
" when a person points a gun at you, they can be arrested for threatening your life, When someone tailgates you in a car going speeds up 70 miles an hour, the person is threatening your life just as much as if he pointed a gun at you, yet the most they get is a ticket" this is my dads view on the subject
face it, we are more in danger of dieing just driving to work then we are of some Random nut job walking in with an AK-47
not to say it doesn't happen its just rare yet guns are demonized for killing 5 people when 500+ people die in a car on the way to work, its kinda hypocritical if you ask me
Phinepnancy, Also in Wis to purchace a hand gun new or used from a dealer You fill out paperwork, verified with ID (drivers licence, military, state issue id, things like school id not accepted ), must pass background check, pay for it but you cant take it with you must wait 2 days and then come back to pick it up. Rifles and shot guns the same without waiting period.
Teknishan, when you purchase a new hand gun usually there is an empty shell case included. The hand gun was fired and the striations are recorded. Striations are unique to a gun as fingerprints to a person.
I must say that I used to be down with a total hand gun ban in the U.S. Then Columbine happened and it seemed to showcase to me not so much that a handgun ban was needed, but that responsible ownership was needed.
The Columbine kids could not get into the guns at one house because they were locked up like Fort Knox. They went to another house where loaded guns were laying around, and it was these they took to the crime scene.
Any cop will categorically tell you (and my cousin is an expert, an ex-Detroit cop) that a shotgun is the best instrument for domestic defense if that is what you want. You gotta' be the greatest shot in the world to hit something with a handgun. Good luck in the dark, its even worse. Trained cops can't hit bleep with a handgun Go on youtube and look at the film of the guy who assaulted the Detroit Police station. Four highly-trained professionals could not bring this guy down with handguns. They couldn't hit him.
I myself bought a handgun last month and I made certain that I purchased a handgun that has redundant safety features. I lock the gun up out of reach in a safe anchored to a cement wall. It also has a lock on it that only I have the key for. In addition you cannot fire the weapon without its magazine, and only I know its location. Furthermore, the greatest safety I have in place is that I refuse categorically to store any ammunition for it in my house or its premises. When the time comes I am going to teach my son about the pistol, he and I will practice with it, and he will be drilled in SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY until he gets it.
This firearm is for shooting paper targets. Only! It is totally useless as a domestic defense weapon. Wanna be "safe"? Get a dog and/or a shotgun.
A guy I knew in the 70's; kept his gun loaded and in his closet. His kids got into it with predictable consequences. The 12-year-old boy was killed. He was one of my Cub Scouts. The other two kids were profoundly affected by the death. Tom became an alcoholic due to guilt, and his spouse became addicted to pain killers. The surviving kids developed emotional problems.
He had the gun "to protect his family".
Two approaches, 2 different results.
You decide.
Nuf' said.
phine,
Operation Wide Receiver resulted from leads funished by a legal gun dealer and was intended to track illegal gun trafficing. The operation was in cooperation with Mexico .... where the weapons were always tracked and security/surveliance of the weapons was maintained.
The program succeeded in the United States but failed when the weapons were lost by Mexican enforcement/authorities upon crossing the border (probably due to corruption).
The program was quickly discontinued when this happened.
Fast and Furious was not a continuation of Wide Receiver, it involved 5 times the number of weapons, security and surveliance were never maintained - in fact, it was intentionally denied by superiors despite agent protests, there was no tracking (officiers have testified they were ordered to stand down) and THERE WAS NOT EVEN NOTIFICATION TO MEXICO, much less cooperation .... an act that Mexico considers a breach of international law.
Obama officials wantonly, deliberately let the guns go to the cartels, knowing full well that it would result in hundreds of innocent deaths (actually thousands according to Mexico although Obama has refused to furnish serial numbers to Mexican authorities). These deaths would be used to sway public opinion in an effort to pass new gun control legislation.
That is the simple nice explanation of this despicable act by Obama.
Bush's Wide Receiver is simply an unrelated, merit-less and intentional distraction and obfuscation to this pathetic crime by the Obama administration.
Good explanation Bob.
So then, when I go out for a walk with my wife in down town Detroit (she is handicapped and needs to walk) I should carry a .308 with me down the street? Maybe a 30/30 winchester like Chuck Conner. Really read a big city newspaper and see the people being killed out in public. Those killers are going to have handguns or sawed offs. I suppose if you were confronted by a person who was intent on killing you....you would just get on your knees and thank them!
Michael1969, I really don't know any liberal who wants all firearms banned. I do, however, know many people of all political persuasions but the extremist types who want SENSIBLE gun laws. It is quite obvious that people like Zimmerman abuse a law that may have come from good intentions. Innocent people are being killed or maimed because of people who don't use firearms properly, due to lack of training, attitude (smartass, better than you kind, or badass) or because they are a criminal. The NRA claims hunters should have firearms. I agree. What do they hunt with semi-automatic or automatic weapons? Hand guns are okay for target practice but this is not Tombstone, Arizona 1888 so consealed hand guns aren't necessary, nor is carrying one necessary. Unless you are going to a rally where there are paper targets with bullseyes to shoot at you don't need them. If someone is breaking into your home and you feel threatened shoot them with a shotgun or single shot rifle, or a handgun for that matter. In the neighborhood call the cops. That's what they are for. Zimmerman is the poster child for what is wrong with such laws. Because of such incidents more people are likely to support greater control of firearms so those who are so sold on the 2nd Amendment right to carry a firearm need to police their own or have restrictions that they find unacceptable. We no longer have nor need a well regulated militia to protect our homefront. We have the most powerful military ever to exist on this planet.
Nope JOS,
How bout' not going into a dangerous area to begin with?
Crime prevention starts with common sense. If I were confronted with a person intent on killing me I would respond in kind.
My next acquisition is a CPL, but I don't intend to walk like Charles Bronson in hostile areas with it. I doubt I'll ever carry it at all.
I am in more danger from irate right wingers than Detroiters. I've had experiences.
GOP,
I too at one time used to be totally anti-gun. Then President Obama was elected, gun sales have soared, right wing extremist groups have grown by over 700% in 3 1/2 years & they're clamoring about taking their country back!
I have even asked my husband to take me to the gun range to refresh my skills (haven't shot or even held a gun since I was a teen on my Grampa's farm (he taught me to shoot because he was often away & we were so far off the beaten path).
If these skin heads want a revolution, I want to make sure I'm prepared...
And I still want to know why clips that hold 30+ rounds & armor piercing bullets are legal or NECESSARY?
Bald eagle, in Wis as I'm sure everyplace else hunting with an automatic rifle is illegal.
Gun sales soared because everyone knew what a left wing anti-gun zealot Obama.
Fast and Furious is all the proof they need to vindicate that sentiment. (Although no one realized Obama had the capacity to do something that loathesome ... to knowingly allow for the deaths of thousands to pursue his agenda.)
When people mention taking the country back, they are talking about ballots not bullets ... grow up.
And you live in Chicago? And you are worried about that!
All those shootings, woundings and murders by skin heads?
How dumb can some people be?
Btw - about those "armor piercing bullets" .... they are much less deadly, make a much smaller wound channel, than the common soft point.
(... and no ... common soft point rifle cartridges go through common police body armor too.)
I don't own any guns. When I was a pup, I had three or four rifles and a shotgun or two and in those halcyon days of my youth I would go out in the boondocks and hunt small game with friends. Gun safety was taken seriously and the firearms we carried were designed and intended for the sole purpose of taking down game. These days, however, the whole culture of gun ownership has changed. People don't buy hunting rifles like they used to; they buy utterly useless assault rifles and pointless .50 cal sniper rifles. They don't buy a simple pistol; they buy large caliber hand cannons that serve no rational purpose either for home defense or for hunting. I am in favor of gun ownership, but I am not pleased with, and do not agree with, the sales of these testosterone-charged boy's toys that only exist to prop up the sagging masculinity of the sad specimens who feel they need to own them. How crazy is that?
http://www.eastcoastfirearms.com/
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/
http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search/Family/7/3/Big-50-Caliber-Guns.htm
http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=27
http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoors/recreation/1277336
Well that certainly might explain why you know so little about what you are talking about.
That explains virtually all your posts, too, bob.
Michael, I will enjoy this golden moment of silence that you have provided us in #2.
Keep advocating the elimination of my right to protect myself & family by thinking YOU know what's best for us and we'll ALL enjoy a "golden moment of silence" because we couldn't protect ouselves.
I have the right to bear arms.....Ms. Fluke doesn't have a right to rubbers paid for by her neighbors.....get acquainted with the difference.
To arm yourself is a choice, if you choose not to you can diall 9 11 and then throw your cell phone at your assailant.
What would Ms. Fluke do with a rubber anyway?
We're still looking at getting your right to bear arms put through.
Medically, it's very difficult. But I could totally see how they would be useful for home-defense (bears have HUGE arms, man! With claws!)
images.sodahead.com/polls/001063269/bear_arms_xlarge.jpeg
Hey Micheal,
I hear there are auditions for a 'Roadhouse' sequel coming up. You are a shoo-in for the drunken belligerent redneck at the bar. Go for the gold!
lol....you have nooooo clue how embarassed I'd be to have "Detroit" in my name......
Isn't that the armpit of the United States?
I have no clue how embarassing it is to be you in general, so no. Armpit? Something about goatees and mullets like you have says more about armpits. BTW, the honor belongs to Cleveland, possibly St. Louis.
I've heard Teterboro, NJ, is the armpit of the USA.
Hmmmmm Detroit I life just off 8 mile and John R. Im not sure Cleveland or St Louis are any worse. I carry a .380 everywhere I go. Legally of course. How many dead people have you found in your back yard? Ive had 2 in the past year and a half.
None, you really live in a crappy neighborhood. You should get a dog.
Why?
After 5 failed marriages jollyold@!$%# finally married his pitbull...
He loves when she puts on her 'lipstick' & rides his little junk...
PS: JOS is truly a legend ONLY in his own mind! GI Joe owns nothing more powerful then a super soaker!
JOS:
A word of advice: Move.
The NRA won't be happy until everyone is forced by law to carry a gun. It's time to push back on them--too easy access to guns has led to more school shootings, domestic murder-suicide events and 'stand your ground' acts of so-called self-defense that are outright killings. Not to mention police officers routinely getting outgunned still and guns crossing the border into Mexico.
Guns don't make us safer. Smart restrictions do.
That's just dumb...
Awesome Feisty!! You are not a girl to be trifled with!
Sumpthin' in the water over there in Chicago makes you girls tough.
;o) I think Mr. Feisty did all right.
As a person who lived through a man coming into an office and killing 11 people, I feel I have a pretty good opinion on this subject. There is no reason for anyone to own an automatic weapon. You can kill Bambi just as well with a bow or regular hunting rifle. You don't need an AK47 or such. I have no problems with folks owning a handgun or hunting rifle, I do have a problem with concealed weapons and everyone acting like Rambo. Did seeing my co-workers get shot and killed color my outlook? You bet your a$$ it did.
ya i do agree only the military should be able to own automatic weapons there is no need for us citizens to own them
i remember me and my dad went to a gravel pit to shoot some cans we met a guy with a fully automatic AK-47 and he laid full blast at a series of cans 50 feet away and he MISSED every single can after that my dad got a membership into a gun club so we could shoot in safety
unfortunately if someone wants a gun like that they will find a away to get one illegal or not
im not sure about other states but in Oregon it is damned hard to get a concealed weapons permit and if you have a criminal history you can't get it
Sadly, I live in Florida where it is as easy to buy a gun as it is to buy a pack of chewing gum. While in my own home (again, my view is skewed, I freely admit it) we have no gun, I have no problems with those who own one. I do have a problem with those who own automatic weapons and carry concealed weapons. What is wrong with the idea of a little responsible gun law?
Well said Phine.
Thanks Wayne. I freely admit that this a subject that my views are colored by personal experience.
I am sorry you had to experience that Phine. Your ideas make sense.
Wayne,
Sadly, common sense and the gun lobby (NRA) don't seem to go hand in hand.
its sad that you had such a bad experience with guns and i truly feel sorry for you and your coworkers
but like i said if some nut wants to get a gun he will get one no matter the laws what we need is a better way to track guns and regulate and make it harder to buy a gun
shooting guns for me and my dad is a fun hobby, i think you are missing out on something fun but that is my opinion i think it is a great way to relieve some stress and btw we have a few guns, but that is nothing compared to real gun nuts
phine,
In California you need to submit (PFEC) application along with a copy of your California Driver’s License or ID Card cost is $20.
You will need to take handgun safety test (30 questions).
You must purchase a California-approved firearms safe (or locking device). If you have a safe you must show proof either by a receipt or owners manual.
Then there is a waiting period to run your information and put you in the system, I think its 10 days.
You also need to show how to use the gun.
I agree with Phine other than collectors, I see no reason for anyone to have a fully automatic weapon. Anything else Im ok with. But Phine I would bet you couldnt tell the difference between a semi auto AK(SK) or an AR15 from the auto version. I can buy a semi auto .223 or .22 M4 lookalike at any sporting goods store. To most Americans it would look like a military weapon. Its not.
and Jolly, easy enough to convert to full auto. Many people make kits and a good machinist would know how to do it with practically nothing.
Detroit, that is true. The Uni Bomber made the tool of his trade in a shack with simple hand tools.
The decision to carry a hand gun carrys alot of responsibility. I own several and am a Republican. I would not be interested in carrying a hand gun outside of normal sporting/hunting events. I don't want to make the choice of pulling the trigger on another human being. I'm not opposed to other non-felons who think they can make that choice.
But, It's my right to not carry a hand gun and I am excersising that right.
Great UAW. Now exercise a little responsibility and use that spell check.
Wow, Wayne! One of those caring liberals.
I think there should be a law that mandates all law abiding citizens carry a firearm.
Just think of low the crime rate would be... We wouldn't need airport security, homeland securty or even the patriot act at a huge savings to the tax payer - wouldn't need as many police another big savings -Our government wouldn't be as corrupt as it is now the list goes on.
There is a reason for the 2nd amendment it is not to hunt or sport shoot. the 2nd amendment's intent was to protect yourself, your family your fellow citizen and keep a government by the people and for the people in check.
Just what we need vigilante justice. OK Corral would be childs play if we were to implement your ideas.
There have been news stories about someone cutting another off in thraffic and were put to death by some fool in the car they cut off. Yes, no more giving the finger and honking or yelling out a few swear words to make one feel better. No, indeed, just end their life forever because they had the audacity to cut YOU off. After all there is no person ever to step foot on this planet more important to you than you, right?
If shootings were rare one might understand but people who used to handle problems in more peaceful ways are settling their disputes with guns. Columbine HS in Colorado, a recent shooting in San Francisco over a gambling debt, Trayvon, a teen who was getting candy but happened to be wearing a hoodie on a chilly night lost his life. Then we have a small private university in Oakland, CA where a disgruntled student killed several people and wounded others in a shooting rampage. These are only a few recent examples of what is happening with people who own firearms. Had another student had a gun at the college would there have been a shoot-out with bullets flying everywhere thus killing even more people? Possibly? The key is common sense but, unfortunately common sense is uncommon as first stated by 17th century philosopher Voltaire.
I don't believe most Americans, liberals, conservatives or those inbetween want to deny anyone their right to own a firearm. There is a sense of responsibility, however that goes with it. I hear those on the right whining incessently about personal responsibility but that seems to apply to everything BUT their 2nd Amendment rights and then they can run amok if they want as personal responsibility isn't important in that case.
a gang member shot a rival and got over on the stand your ground law.
a white man calls 911 to report a robbery in the house next to his. he tells 911 he has a gun. 911 tells him police are on their way, dont have the gun in hand when they arrive, and dont go outside. the 911 operator tells the man 14 times do not go out side. the man sees the robbers come out the house, the man tells 911 he's going to confront these men, 911 again tells him do not go outside. he went outside and shot both men to death. and he too got over on the stand your ground.
how? because he's white. he was never danger. like gz, he pursued these men. the two guys had no business robbing someone's house but who gave this man the authority to decide these men should die.
how did this man get away with killing two people when he was never in danger and was told not to leave his house 14 times.
In Israel, you can't enter a building without passing by a guy who's got a sidearm strapped to his belt. Soldiers walk around with their weapons slung over their shoulders, going to or coming from work (though they aren't loaded). I felt safer there than I do here. If people can carry openly, wherever they are, there is a lot less chance for something like what happened at VT to occur.
If you've ever been a victim of a violent crime, you are likely in favor of carrying a weapon. I was, I am, and I do.
BTW, I watched that "documentary" called "Gun Fight" on HBO. It's a barely-concealed anti-gun propaganda piece. It starts with Columbine, goes to VT, and shows none of the stories in which people have saved their lives, and others', when they had a gun in a bad situation. Every time they showed anyone who supported gun ownership, they had some hillbilly band in the background, and they spent most of the show giving the Brady Center as much positive press as possible. There was ZIP balance in the show. Too bad; I had hoped for something that wasn't just an exercise in FUD by the Brady center.
Nothing’s changed here A thug assaulted a guy on the streets, who defended himself.One less thug in this world..thank you Zimmerman!
"It is mine to avenge; I will repay. In due time their foot will slip; their day of disaster is near and their doom rushes upon them."
Deuteronomy 32:35
Louis,
You are obviously trying to bait people in this thread with your incendiary exhibition of forced, artificial prejudice and ignorance.
This is the only time it will work.
Trevon was executed because he was black. Last time I bothered to check skittles come in only one caliber, and that one is non-lethal. Zimmerman was in no danger. Zimmerman made the world safe,.....but only if you are a skittle.