"Let me tell you, the things that's about to happen, to these honkeys, these crackers, these pigs, these pink people, these [expletive] people. It has been long overdue. My prize right now this evening ... is gonna be the bounty, the arrest, dead or alive, for George Zimmerman. You feel me?" - Michelle Williams - Chief of Staff for the New Black Panther Party

Source: http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/250102/8/New-Black-Panther-Party-chief-of-staff-apologizes

Ms. Williams later "apologized", but are these the words of a rational person? Is this the image the New Black Panther Party wanted to present to the country? Has Al Sharpton contacted her and her organization to tell her to bring the rhetoric down a few notches?

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Care to comment on the Hillary Rosen comment.....can't wait to hear this

BEN: The "New Black Panther Party"......... you mean all 6 of them???

Ben: Joanna -- Why isn't the Justice Department investigating the new black panther party. I believe Americans have seen enough.

One might construe that Ms. Williams tirade could be considered a threat. The DOJ though is very busy suing people they don't like and having to write 3 page letters (single spaced) to federal judges telling them they really do believe the courts can find laws unconstitutional.

Busy times at the DOJ.

A few observations. Allen West, the idiot Senator from Florida, says that Congress is crawling with Communists. There's at least 60 or 70 active card carrying Commies right now active in our Congress. Is this guy living in the past and thinks he's Joe Mc Carthy of the 1950's? How do these guys ever get elected? Vote this nut out as soon as possible, he's an embarrassment to the Republican Party and the Nation.

And a round of applause for the Gingrich Family for their rebuff of "FOX AND FOOLS".

And last but not least, SARA PALIN FOR VICE-PRESIDENT RUNNING MATE WITH WEIRD WILLARD. What a pair to draw too and a sure winner. I love it.

Obama in 2012.

Sorry Feisty, but this isn't an apology, despite the liberal spin, it's an affirmation of her viewpoint:

From WTSP.com

"If my words, my words that I had to say out of anger will make the American people address this issue, let it be my time, Melanie. Let it be my time to address this issue with America, that we say enough is enough. We can't have any more killings."

She spoke openly, "My words were out of anger. I did not incite, I did not promote, nor did I encourage anyone to go and pick up a gun."

Uh, yes maam, you did and you refuse to take it back.

not buying the apology...snuffy....

@Ozzie -- I don't really care how many members. Even if one person makes a threat on another life by placing a bounty on their head, they should be charged and prosecuted.

JoAnna, perhaps you should be angry that an unarmed teenager is dead for no reason, other than walking home.

Yet you prefer to concentrate on the Black Panther?

I hope the young people in this country are paying attention to what Fox News and right wing hosts are doing and have been doing for years. If you want a future you have got to change things.

Cable News is all about ratings and making money. They have no principles, particularly CNN and Fox.

MSNBC did what it was supposed to do as a news outlet. Point out the injustices in this country. Trayvon's parents can now hopefully find some peace now that Zimmerman has been charged.

And if you don't work hard to vote out Eric Cantor and Jim DeMint and the other screwballs in the Republican Party, nothing will change.

It is all there in black and white exactly what has been happening slowly for the past 30 years. You need to get these people out of office and turn Fox off.

You need not have to make a lot of money. Concentrate instead on the quality of life you want to have. The GOP want to take that away from you. You have the power not to let them.

And that means stamping out injustices and racism and class and women warfare. You did it in the Trayvon Martin case.

Keep doing it.

Ben you sound like a spoiled child. How old are you and where is your mother?

While FR may think Romney caught a break by a comment made by someone unconnected to the campaign, it is temporary. I respect and admire Ann Romney but for Romney and his staff to use her battle with cancer and MS in response to a comment about her not ever working at a job outside the home is in itself disparaging to Mrs. Romney--using her battle with devasting illness is as equally inappropriate as Rosen's remarks. It is part of her life story, it shows her as human, it reflects that even those who have it all face serious health challenges but to see Romney use her as a political tool to convince voters he's not anti-women is tacky. It would be appropriate if the Romneys were speaking about cancer research or MS research and it's importance, it is not appropriate in this context.

While Rosen's comments were inappropriate and poorly worded, the truth is Ann Romney has never "had" to work outside the home to help support those five children; the family has never known economic hardship; they have never struggled to put food on the table or found it necessary to scrimp and save for college. Rosen, however inartful and disrespectful, makes a valid point--Ann Romney, like her husband, cannot relate to economic hardship, cannot relate to working single Mom's struggling to care for the children; she cannot related to both spouses having to work outside the home just to make ends meet and maybe provide a little extra for their children because she has only known wealthy and economic prosperity.

Perhaps one of the few that can accurately respond to the Romney camp is me. I left the workforce when it was clear that my oldest had developmental delays that would take a parent at home to manage.

Rosen's comment is valid. When I made the choice I made, I did it knowing full well the long term cost I would be engaging. I gave up all the support that working gave me, for example, retirement funding, paying into social security, and banking on my husband's ability to maintain employment in an uncertain economy.

Ann Romney had many advantages that most of us don't have. For example...they are RICH in a way that most Americans cannot conceive of. The differences between the two of us are profound. Mrs. Romney can afford trained dressage Austrian Warmbloods to ride, a horse that would be in six figures to purchase. I have my home raised and schooled Paint Quarter horse. I will bet you I have more of relationship with the horse I raised and trained then she does hers.

So ask yourself this...who made the sacrifice? Ann Romney who never had to give money a thought, or those of us who did quit the workforce knowing the economic loss, but needing a greater personal gain?

How about all those women who would like to stay at home and raise their families, but can't, because people like Mittens Romney, a vulture, can shut down their jobs, not caring about the people he harms? And who also gets the tax breaks that would be better allowed the middle class and working poor.

Hmmmm?

Jody, Iowa....that's your spin

I love Rosen's comment, in that it comes straight out of the mouth of a member of the party of tolerance and diversity.

(Aahhh the stench of hypocrisy!)

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED

"Perhaps the one of the few that can accurately respond to the Romney camp is me"

How in the world do you know that ??? My wife left a 6 figure job to stay home with our children....the balance of your comments certainly define you...rosen's comments are valid????

Pat, are you angry that 6 children have been shot or killed in the city of Detroit since the beginning of the year?

A 9 month old baby is dead "just for sleeping in his bed".

Where is the outrage for that?

You people are hypocrites.

You focus on one murder and turn your backs on the real problems.

Sure Martins death is a tradegy and will be investigated.

How do you think the investigations are going on the 6 kids shot in Detroit?

Do you even care?

I'd like to hear what the House of Rep. has to say about West's bull@!$%# comments. Allan West should be brought up on ethics charges and/or censured. Deja vu and cue the McCarthy hearings "Red Scare" all over again! Sounds like another witch hunt job for Issa or King. LOL. Cue the inquisitions! ;-)

Obama/Biden 2012

she APOLOGIZED!

So did Limbaugh, but that didn't stop you or your the left wing hate machine from having their girly bits all in a spasm.

Maybe if George Zimmerman apologized . . . .

Pat Boston: Yet you prefer to concentrate on the Black Panther?

Yeah. Inciting race riots is a pet peeve of mine. You seem to be okay with it though.

WCA: Do you even care?

Not much better in Chicago: "Chicago homicides soar . . . "

Gang crime. Al and Jesse won't march there. Fear of getting shot perhaps?

I think it is clear that Rosen meant that Mrs Romney did not work a standard job in politics or business,...not that her work as a mother (and her work as a breast cancer survivor ??) is not worthy of respect. Focusing on this statement in this way is VERY clearly an attempt to control the narrative,...inappropriately and awkwardly so).

Pointing to the fact that she is breast cancer survivor and a mom of five is just attempting to fan the flames of division through association, pity and sympathy.

!) Yes, of course, we ALL love moms and the work they do to raise a family

and

2) No one is even remotely bashing her or undermining her for her health problems. How did THAT get in this discussion (obvious uunderhanded manipulation by the GOP)

The point is that she just may not be a seasoned business person or legal counsel for Mitt to turn to for advice. Mitt saying that he turned to her for advice on these matters is just his way of AGAIN trying to ingratiate himself with another group by feigning or self-servingly demonstrating empathy, interest and respect because he wants votes from,....in this case - women.

OBVIOUS. NO BRAINER.

Women are awesome, but that's not the point Rosen was making here,...it's the showy display for the purposes of swaying the female vote that is in question.

Willard is such a transparent sycophantic dork,...it needed to be pointed out, and THAT is what Rosen did.

The GOP are true spinmeisters. Anything to gain one point,...no matter how misrespresentative.

I may not be a NASCAR fan, but I know some of the owners,...who are women,...or the wives or the owners,...or just guys who revere feminine pulchritude,....and watch the View (please, please vote for me,... kiss,kiss,kiss,kiss,kiss)

Anti-White agenda Damage123

Did you know by the year 2030 Non-Hispanic Whites will contribute nothing to the population growth in the United States because they will be on the decline.

Source: US Census

I'm black & White and I say arrest the 6 black panthers in the New York Section. They contribute nothing to the society but hate and most blacks and white would like to resolve all issues without the hate messages pushed by the black panther party, right wing radio, right wing news FIX NEWS and right wing bloggers.

Besides all that Romney has a women problem. He embraced Scott Walker who signed a bill repealing equal pay for women. Tell me Damage123 how can you explain that to your mother, grandmother, daughter, sister, niece, grand daughter and all your female friends what Scott Walker did helps the GOP women problem as well as make Romney our next President?

Let me guess you can't explain that not even to a fool.

Have a Great Day Damage123 you just got smacked down.

I have nothing against Ann Romney personally, but I think it's a stretch to say she can relate to other women on economic issues. I mean, this woman is a wealthy housewife, who never tossed and turned worrying about paying for childcare so she could take a job and support a family. She's never worried about losing a job, because she's never depended on one to support herself. She has never worried about losing her health insurance when she got sick. She's never wondered how she'd pay for her boys to go to college.

I was at a Romney rally where a mother asked Mitt how young people are going to make it in life, saddled with student loan debt, and he said student loans drive up the cost of college, and if everybody just paid cash there would be no debt. The implied message was: only the rich should be able to get a college degree.

My nieces are all working mothers. They worry about childcare arrangements, and about healthcare costs and getting their kids into better schools. I'm sure they'd like to be stay- at- home moms, and I know us aunts wish they could afford to have five kids each! In my opinion, Michelle Obama can relate better to these working moms than Ann Romney can. But, what's really important is, Michelle's husband's administration has been better for women and families than a Republican administration would be.

"(Does anyone believe, with a straight face, that nine in 10 job losses over the past three years have been women workers?)" By NBC's Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, Brooke Brower.

Is this article news or commentary? Well, I'll answer the above question. Based on the economic conditions around me, yes, I absolutely believe the numbers. And, until you prove otherwise, I feel your comments are a derogatory flip answer toward the plight of women and the unemployed.

Perhaps those ranting about the new black panthers need to take a long hard look at the increase in numbers of right-wing hate groups nationwide; the numbers are staggering. I don't have time this morning to post the facts (I will another day) but even the state of Iowa has several neo-Nazi, white supremacist, and skinhead groups but no black panthers.

Amy B. Portland, ME...

you can say the same of congressional housewives on both sides...and all your favorites on the "View"

BTW..love the Michelle O. comment

While Rosen's comments were inappropriate and poorly worded, the truth is Ann Romney has never "had" to work outside the home to help support those five children; the family has never known economic hardship; they have never struggled to put food on the table or found it necessary to scrimp and save for college. Rosen, however inartful and disrespectful, makes a valid point--Ann Romney, like her husband, cannot relate to economic hardship, cannot relate to working single Mom's struggling to care for the children; she cannot related to both spouses having to work outside the home just to make ends meet and maybe provide a little extra for their children because she has only known wealthy and economic prosperity.

I think Hilary Rosen's point was that Mitt Romney should not use a woman who has lived a financially privileged life, who has never held a paying job outside the home (his wife) as an advisor on what working women need and want from the workplace.

Yes, Rosen's comment may have been poorly worded, but I believe her central point has been misconstrued, just like Hillary Clinton's comment about not staying home baking cookies was misconstrued.

On another note, why has Damage123 not been banned???

Ben, not so incredible.

Look at Sarah Palin, Hell look what they said about Laura Bush.

They only support Women who agree with them.

Hence, it is not really women they support, it is an ideology.

See, easy-peasy.

So mrwarmth: you have a child with disabilities too?

I stand by my comments.

Kay - On another note, why has Damage123 not been banned???

Cuz, if they ban Damage they would have to ban Feisty, or that would be a double standard.

But I doubt that will stop them.

Damage, Ben and you other slugs who post on here. REALLY???? Someone NOT associated with Obama makes a stupid comment and this is your rally call for the day? Damn, I'll bet we could make a list a mile long on both sides. There are idiots in BOTH parties. Move on. Romney is desperate for women's votes. Making the REDICULOUS claim that 98% of all jobs lost was due to obama. REALLY? EVERYONE has debunked the stupid claim. Technically they were right, but in reality, SO wrong. It is the convenient way they read the data. As for the Black Panther whatever. When did THIS become an issue. Why do you REP all put Libs in the same boat. You seem to think we support any and every liberal group, cause, individual, etc. That is like saying you support Warren Jeffs because he is a conservative.

Finally, where is YOUR indignation over the assinine comment about the Communist in Congress???? REALLY???? Thought McCarthyism was dead, but guess I'm wrong when a party gets desperate, they sink to anything.

Oh wait. What about Walker repealing the WI law on equal pay for women???? Huh???? How is that for a "War on Women"... and Walker is HUGE supporter and vice versa of Romney.

Another insanely wild claim made by the GOP. 92% of all those who have experienced job loss are women? WTF, exactly how stupid do you have to be to claim that and how stupid do you have to believe it. But the drones will keep repeating it like it is some holy mantra. But then again the greasy haired job destroying slickster also believes in sacred underwear and baptising the dead. But what can you expect from a party that has been led by a man that did not know how a grocery checkout scanner works and another that could not open a door and exit a stage without looking like a fool. Too bad there is never a shoe around when we need to throw one.

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED

So mrwarmth: you have a child with disabilities too?

"Developmental delays" as you said...yes I do

Jody, I have been paying very close attention to the Trayvon Martin case. You would not believe what right wingers are saying on line in this country. You simply wouldn't believe the hateful comments coming out of their mouths.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vrE7DG1OWc

Stay at home moms unite!

Apparently in the eyes of the DNC you are worthless unless you have a job!

War on Women? First we find out that women at the White House make 18% less than men and now we find out that if you don't work the democrat party doesn't think much of you.

Remember that come election day!

You simply wouldn't believe the hateful comments coming out of their mouths

Pat,

Oh yes I would... I have read some myself and it makes my skin crawl!

Worst part is, most of them are sitting in the church pews on Sunday morning!

WheresCongress, even FOX's Gretchen Carlson didn't buy Romney's numbers and if Gretchen who is not a really bright bulb doesn't buy it, it means Romney lied once again.

"You simply wouldn't believe the hateful comments coming out of their mouths"

To be clear...coming out of the mouths of both sides of the political spectrum

السلام عليكم to my main Muslim Republican Brothers, White Collar Auto, Ben-636050, and JoAnnaSmith1! Remember, praying to Mecca is a requirement for Republicans 5 times a day, but you can pray even more!

你好 Feisty, Pat BostonMA, and The Fosz-4254828! The Chairman asks you for a big smile today, and if you don't, a 'Party Consulate' will be along to 'interview' you!

It is important for Muslim Republicans and Communist Democrats to remember:

YES repeat!

NO think!

This is important whether your Chariman Democrat approves of putting healthcare above the economy. Because while Healthcare certainly needs to be fixed, your job doesn't. Or your Ayatollah Republican wants you to promote racism under the guise of white repression.

I expect a good tussle with no minds changed whatsoever today between you grey uniformed lefty Communists and the robe wearing righty Jihadists. Me? I'm going to throw my lot in with the jihadists this time around, because I'd rather have my four wives forced to stay at home and wear blankets than grey pants! Let's GO!

The FDA approves pesticides shown to cause cancer and similar in ingredients to Agent Orange for application to crops, the GMO crops engineered not to die under this assault are approved, and a million plus signature to the White House requesting a requirement for GMO foods to simply be labeled is dismissed out of hand. Meanwhile back on the farm the Feds descend upon farmers who sell fresh milk to their neighbors because they ask them to.

The power balance in this country is turned upside down. Politicians understand this and profit from it. Only Dr. Paul acknowledges it. A little common sense is a dangerous thing. Maybe we should call Dr. Paul 'Morpheus'.

pat and Feisty,

Why aren't you paying close attention to the shootings in Detroit or God forbid Feisty Chicago:

From the Chicago tribune:

Homicides in Chicago soared by 60 percent in the first three months of 2012,
continuing a troublesome trend that began late last year. Nonfatal shootings
also rose sharply in the first quarter, Police Department statistics show.

120 homicides so far already. Wonder how many were Racially motivated?

But these deaths don't fit your template do they?

You are both hypocrites screaming in an echo chamber.

Then you agree with me, mrwarmth, that those of us able to have a parent at home, giving up the economic security of that job, are few and far between.

Worst part is, most of them are sitting in the church pews on Sunday morning!

Bingo. These people believe in a higher power but not in you know, actual human beings, who disagree with their dark ages philosophies.

They're sick people. Democrats and young people must not get complacent. They need to go to these right wing sites and read what they are writing.

Someone needs to open their eyes. Now.

Stay at home moms unite!

Apparently in the eyes of the DNC you are worthless unless you have a job!

Typical conservative to twist an issue, Rob.

No one thinks a stay-at-home mother is worthless!

THE POINT IS THAT MOST MOMS CANNOT AFFORD TO STAY AT HOME WITH THEIR KIDS ANYMORE.

Ann Romney cannot relate to the average American woman any more than Mitt can.

So give reality a break, OK?

"While we expect Romney to stay silent on this anniversary, it’s worth reminding everyone that the Obama White House was a bit silent on the second anniversary of its health-care law." By NBC's Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, Brooke Brower.

Well, I certainly hope Romney proudly speaks of Romneycare, because there are 2 major differences between Romneycare and Obamacare.

1) Romney read the bill before they passed it.

2) Romneycare was a bipartisan bill.

mrwarmth

many congressional wives, in fact, do work - they are paid lobbyists.

Oh NO! The communists and jihadists have changed my text! No matter, I'll tranlate into English, the language of the infidel capitalist.

As-salamu alaykum is for my Muslim Republicans

Ni hao is for my Communist Democrats

Now I've got to burn my tongue with a hot coal and wash my fingers in lye. Oh, Allah, you have a funny sense of humor!

How many of you who are so upset about the comment made by (and subsequently apologized for) Hilary Rosen have come to the defense of President Obama when he is accused of being no more than a community organizer?

It appears that you all feel that Mrs. Romneys' experience as a housewife somehow prepares her for the world stage and that may or may not be true, but working for the betterment of a community, especially one as large as Chicago proper, at least shows an interest in that community which is beyond the comfort and confines of a well appointed home in the burbs.

I don't have time this morning to post the facts

Too funny. You and Dr Ron have a lot in common.

JoAnnaSmith1:

Ms. Williams later "apologized", but are these the words of a rational person? Is this the image the New Black Panther Party wanted to present to the country? Has Al Sharpton contacted her and her organization to tell her to bring the rhetoric down a few notches?

The New Black Panther Party is a tiny group of nutcases. If Al Sharpton should be worrying about them, then Mitt Romney should be calling up all the neo-Nazis and tell them to tone down their anti-immigrant rants on their web sites.

Pat, Boston, I wish it surprised me to hear how awful the comments are on other sites about the Trayvon Martin case but it doesn't. It's sad and a sad commentary on our society. Anonymous blogs seem to empower those who are filled with hate but they are cowards hiding behind their anonymity.

Face it, Rosen was right. Ann Romney HASN'T worked a day in her life outside of her family. She has had the luxury of raising her children while being supported. It's wonderful that she has survived cancer and no one is belittling her for that but she HASN'T had to work outside the home. She who says "I don't consider my family wealthy," has not had to worry about providing for her family or how the bills are getting paid. The fact that she, just like her husband, is divorced from reality shows that. Rosen's comment was right on target.

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED

I believe that everyone has a cross to bear, each one making necessary a change in our planned life. I do not feel cheated nor do I want sympathy. I simply live my life with the ordeals dealt to me and my family. Some are lucky...some not so lucky.....but are all blessed.

Not much of a twist Kaybee.

Axlerod couldn't wait to distance himself from the comments.

Apparently he thought they were dangerous, despite the inane comments trying to spin it here.

You and New Day are having a bad day here. Maybe you should both move on to the next thread and try to start over.

Amy B. Portland, ME

Thank you. I stand corrected. I wonder if they have 5 young children at home and have been very ill.....

According to First Read, Vice President Biden will say :

“The Buffett Rule says that multi-millionaires should pay at least the same percentage of their income in taxes as middle-class families do."

Now, my understanding is that the "Buffet Rule" imposes a minimum 30% tax on all income of millionaires. Using the current federal income tax tables, a married couple filing jointly would need income in excess of $500,000 to have an effective tax rate of 30%. If that is middle-class, sign me up. Am I missing something here??

Also, California Tom...not sure if someone mentioned it, but Allen West is a Congressman not a Senator.

Happy Thursday all! :-)

WCA, Axelrod knows only too well how quickly the conservative flies will swarm all over anything that has the potential to be used against the president.

Read the comments and see who is doing all the twisting.

It is really interesting to see how people try to stir up racial animosity by assigning all people of the "ethnicity of the moment" to be "responsible" for mistakes made by anyone in that ethnic group.

Especially around election time.

Last election, it was Hispanics and immigration if I'm not mistaken. Lots of rhetoric about deporting folks and the like.

Before that, it was decided that Muslims should not build houses of worship.

And now, as if on cue, it is time to rant and rave against "blacks" who dare object when their unarmed children are murdered.

I have seen this movie before . . . I used to get angry . . . now I get out and register folks to vote.

Game on.

First Read

As we noted yesterday, this speech by Biden and the decision to call the "Buffett rule" the "Romney Rule" proves this was a political proposal, not a serious policy one.

Geez, you'd think "journalists" would have a better grasp of the English language. Biden is NOT calling the Buffet Rule the Romney Rule. The two are polar opposites. Here's the quote from the speech Biden's going to give that I got from Greg Sargent's web site:

The Buffett Rule says that multi-millionaires should pay at least the same percentage of their income in taxes as middle-class families do. The Romney Rule says the very wealthy should keep the tax cuts and loopholes they have, and get an additional, new tax cut every year that is worth more than what the average middle class family makes in an entire year.

Notice that, First Read guys? The Buffet Rule is NOT the Romney Rule and the Romney Rule is NOT the Buffet Rule. OK?

What's really sad about these desperate attempts like First Reads' to main a false equivalency between Republicans and Democrats is that the attempts are totally futile. As long as the media even hint at the fact that Romney's Pants-On-Fire lies are maybe not quite exactly accurate, the far right loonies will scream about liberal media bias.

mrwarmth: very nice return comment.

What we need to keep in mind are those who have kids with problems, who cannot make the decisions that we made. I was greatly fortunate to make my choice, I'm certain that your wife felt greatly fortunate to make hers.

What about the people that can't? More of them than us.

Seeking- Keep working on that. From what I've heard Ann Romney has MS and raised 5 children. Yep, she had a lot of money and help raising her kids, but if you have ANY kids you understand that they are amazing time investments. She was likely doing the day to day management of their lives, schooling, sports, events, etc. That's no little job.

As a parent I can easily say that a "home maker" is a building manager, HR manager, food service technician/chef, hosiptality manager, event planner, commuter planner, bus driver, etc. etc. It's a real job and I'm very happy that I don't have to do it alone.

Funny thing about democrats- they seem really interested in women's choices, but they don't support a woman whom chooses to raise a family in a way that she find propper.

Sorry, Bill, Fairfax, but I am leaving the house in a few minutes and did not have time to find the information I have and post it. I'll take the comparison to Dr Ron as a compliment even though I know that isn't what you meant.

I have seen many comments about Mrs. Romney not working a day in her life, out side the home, and how this some how makes here less qualified to be first lady or that it must mean that she has not given something back to society. I find these to be some of the most sexist comments ever. If this is the view of our progressive party, we have much to worry about.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Ms. Williams later "apologized",

"See here's the difference Snuffy - she APOLOGIZED!

Wow...is that all we need to do after spewing racial hatred and threats??? Well, perhaps if you are a democrat from Chicago.....so fiesty, you got nothin'???

jrl-281852

Absolutely...perhaps the left should remember Jackie Kennedy

Bill Fairfax wrote:
The U.S. has the most progressive tax system among developed economies according to an OECD report based on mid-2000s data. Other analysis shows our tax system has become steadily MORE progressive over the years. In 1980 the top 10% of our earners paid a little over 49% of total federal income taxes while the bottom 50% of earners paid about 7 percent. But by 2008 the top 10% paid about 70% of all federal income taxes while the bottom 50% paid less than 3 percent.

Me:
Could you also provide data on the income disparity? Who's income rose from 1980 to 2008 and by how much? Who's income remained stagnant (or declined) between 1980 and 2008 and by how much?

The top 2% have created this problem. They have not held up their part of the deal promised by trickle down economics. They are NOT creating jobs in the US - they are hoarding their money or using it to create jobs overseas.
But this is just another symptom of a greater problem. How many people go to Best Buy to see the latest TVs, then go home and order it from Amazon. How many people go to their local car dealer to see (and even test drive) the latest models, then go to the mega-dealer several towns away to buy the car. No body is interested in supporting their local merchants, and companies are not interested in keeping jobs in the US.

Remember Henry Ford? Here's a few excerpts from -

Ford hired handicapped workers*. He studied the jobs and the requirements and put each man in a place where he could do the job and make a living for his family.

Ford was a firm believer in the idea that the able-bodied should work. He thought as an employer his job was to serve others. He paid his workers $5 a day. This was nearly twice as much as most employers paid their employees. He felt there was something sacred about wages and what they represent.

He instituted the 40 hour week with men working eight hours a day, five days a week. He had a code of conduct for his employees which forbade heavy drinking and gambling.

Me again:
What has happened to the concept of Noblesse Oblige. If the top 2% are the job creators, and they are given tax breaks to help create those jobs, they are obligated to do just that - and right here in the US.

Obama / Biden 2012

Ben wrote:
Think Progress is a disgrace to humanity. Liars all and it doctors statements and videos. Any and all who claim that source as the truth automatically invalidates anything they say or post

Me:
Same is true for Faux News, The Blaze, and anyone who listens to them. And Rush Limbaugh is the poster boy for "This man is a charlatan speaking out of his ass!!!!!!!", and you probably listen to all three.

Wow...is that all we need to do after spewing racial hatred and threats??? Well, perhaps if you are a democrat from Chicago

Well, perhaps if you are a drug addicted, misogynist & leader of the Republican party from FL...

Speaking of FL - where's an apology from Allen West Joe McCarthy?

so fiesty, you got nothin'???

LOL - so says someone who can only shoot 'blanks'...

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED

Thank you, but I cannot speak for others. I simply try to do what I think is best for my family, as you did. These choices are not always easy, but we have no regrets. I wish you well.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

"Well, perhaps if you are a drug addicted, misogynist & leader of the Republican party from FL.."

You really need to get help...you are over the edge...and, you got nothin

You too, mrwarmth.

We get it. You hate Romney and think he's not qualified for the White House...because he's rich. So sue him. Maybe you can get Eric Holder to do just that and redistribute his $$$ to everyone who doesn't pay taxes?

Kaybee- Ban this.

jrl-281852

I find it funny Republicans keep saying being a mother is a job in itself, when it comes to lauding Ann Romney's choice to be a stay-at-home mom, but they have nothing but contempt for mothers on welfare. Apparently, poor women aren't "working" when they stay home to take care of kids, but rich ladies are. Interesting.

Joe NY - clearly YOU missed the point - but YOU keep on trying (again - no sanity to be found in the GOP). She was fortunate enough to be ABLE to stay home - unlike many many women with children. And, yes she has MS and fought cancer - as many women have fought cancer - but she had a great deal of paid help because of her family's wealth (I know she doesn't think they're wealthy but most people with a brain know they are). She had great medical care and great help in caring for her children. I am not putting her down. Mothers do an incredible job and I have no problem with any woman choosing to stay home with their children but many do not have that luxury.

But you really knew the point I was making. You just chose to make a totally STUPID attack. No woman I know EVER puts a woman down for making the choice to stay home. We just feel women should HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE. And, should they choose to work, we actually think they should be paid the same as any man who does the same job.

Why is it Republicans always try to skew what an Independent or Democrat says to turn it into something that wasn't said at all? Pathetic that you had to take that stance.

Anne has led a pampered life regardless of her illness

Actually feisty they were poor when they started out, do some homework and by the way the "progressive" part of the Dem party is communist.

Amy B. Portland, ME

Herding people into groups is dividing this country. Perhaps spewing at a particular person would make your argument more credible.

Reading the progressive defense of the ridiculous comments of Hilary's war on Romney is laughable. Its like listening to the NOW defense of Clinton even with clear evidence of sexual harassment. Sometimes just saying yes that was wrong and we dont condone it and moving on is the best tactic but the Obama campaigners here just can never bring themselves to actually admit errors. You cant defend these statements and not laugh when they were making the same lame arguments themselves with all the early criticism of Obama for having no relevant work experience. Hypocrisy is such a tough pill to swallow isnt it.

As for Scott Walker's repeal of the Equal Pay act in Wisconsin, can some "objective" not Obama campaigner, explain what actual negative impact this has on equal for women in Wisconsin. If this was similar to the Lilly Ledbetter law, it would be interesting to understand if this was just a bill that had a nice sounding title (because who isnt for equal pay) but in substance was just for the benefit of the Trial Lawyers Association the big campaign donors to the democratic party. There are laws already on the books at the federal and state level that prohibit discrimination so its hard to believe that this bill did anything but put money in the democratic donor's pockets. Crony capitalism at its best. As proven over and over, women who have equal education and job responsibilities make the same as men and in urban areas actually make more, if there were a case of job discrimination, I assume there is nothing preventing a woman from filing a case in Wisconsin after this bill was repealed. My guess is that repealing this bill prevents trial lawyers from filing frivilous lawsuits and so they make less money. If not true, can someone provide factual support otherwise?

Who's income remained stagnant (or declined) between 1980 and 2008 and by how much?

According to the CBO, no one's income declined or remained stagnant during this period. In fact, they report that the bottom fifth of the population with the lowest incomes saw their average real after tax income increase by 18% from 1979 to 2007. Looks like those job creators you trash must have been doing something right.

http://cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/10-25-HouseholdIncome.pdf

Kirk - as usual your rantings have no merit and absolutely no fact. Hilary has no WAR on Romney. She made a stupid statement and apologized. Certainly more than the GOP who continue to denigrate women every chance they get. Please grow up!

No one is saying that because Ann was a stay at home mom that she isn't qualified to be first lady. What we are saying is that it is hard pressed to think that she can relate to other women in our country because she has not had to worry or struggle the way they have. I understand she is a cancer survivor, many women are. Many women who have cancer also have no health care, no money and no childcare. I'm sure she is a very nice lady and a great mother but she isn't the average woman either.

@Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

See here's the difference Snuffy - she APOLOGIZED!

ROTFLMAO!!! You're fcking joking right?!?! Rush Limbaugh apologized also but as I recall you had a very different take on that. I guess insincere apologies only count when a liberal says something stupid huh? Hypocrite much? Yes, rhetorical question, anyone who checks out First Read knows the answer to that. You hide away like a coward here on these unmoderated boards because you know you'd get a lifetime ban if you strayed with you BS onto one of the others.

Bottom line: You NEVER tell a stay-at-home-mom that she ever worked a day in her life. Very insulting. A sure trip to the couch if you are the husband :)

And the gifts from the Left media just keep giving.

Mr. Obama cannot defend his domestic and International policies, so Mr. Obama thinks division of the masses, with his "attack" mode, is "his" campaign key to winning re-election. But he doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected since "his" Liberal supporters and the media continue to drag him down in the muck.

Yep, we will NOT hear anything about Van Jones, or the rest of the "elite" Obama administration, who are "Chicago squeaky clean". Gotta scratch your head when the Liberals revert to name calling when they cannot defend Mr. Transformer Obama agenda.

@Amy B. Portland, ME

I find it funny Republicans keep saying being a mother is a job in itself, when it comes to lauding Ann Romney's choice to be a stay-at-home mom, but they have nothing but contempt for mothers on welfare. Apparently, poor women aren't "working" when they stay home to take care of kids, but rich ladies are. Interesting.

There is a difference between staying home because you have a spouse that works and staying home because your 5 different baby-daddies are all deadbeats. Democrats, through their policies, encourage the later while at the same time they criticize the former. Now THAT is funny!

Funny thing about democrats- they seem really interested in women's choices, but they don't support a woman whom chooses to raise a family in a way that she find propper.

Not true at all. Democrats support women being able to CHOOSE to stay home with their kids if they want to. At issue is our financial inability to do that. The Romneys never had to make that choice based on their finances.

Actually feisty they were poor when they started out, do some homework and by the way the "progressive" part of the Dem party is communist.

Not one, but two ludicrous statements in one sentence, Matt!

In case you missed it, Mitt Romney is the son of George Romney, the former governor of Michigan and CEO of American Motors. If that's 'poor', my parents must have been destitute!!

Romney somehow afforded to go to both law school and business school at Harvard. I guess he really suffered in his mission years too. It must have been tough spending two years in France! ;)

Seeing Commies behind every bush? McCarthyism is kind of passe. We don't condone blackballing Americans anymore.

ldo

Yep. Divide and conquer is the political agenda in the cesspool of politics.

bill fairfax in VA.; take home pay increased 18% from 1970 -2007; HOWEVER inflation increased 137% in that same time period, it broke the middle class.

Romney's wife never worked a day in her life, WTF, TRY RAISING 5 BOYS, WORK OUTSIDE OF THE HOME WOULD BE A CAKE-WALK.

Hilary Rosen showed the true color of the Democratic Party in her comments on Ann Romney. Amazing the only women they choose to support are the ones that choose to work instead of working at home and raising the kids. I for one am glad my wife has chosen the same route as Ann Romney. Even though it costs us economically our children will be better for it. Our country and our children would be better off if more families would make this choice.

For the 1 percent of the population with the highest income, average real after-tax household income grew by 275 percent between 1979 and 2007 (see Summary Figure 1).

Bill in Fairfaux is one shameless individual!!!! On all accounts!

Matt - 1883244 - OMG Are you for real?? They were poor when they started? What, did they only have 4 homes then???? The Romney's were NEVER poor and she had help in the home from day one.

OBAMA/BIDEN 2012

kaybeetoys,

THE POINT IS THAT MOST MOMS CANNOT AFFORD TO STAY AT HOME WITH THEIR KIDS ANYMORE.

You paint with a pretty broad brush. There are a few "MOMS" that can't afford to stay at home with their kids. Single moms who thought it would be nice to have a child without the hassle of having a husband/father around. A few where the father doesn't make enough to support the family because of the current Obama economy. Thank God for the Food Stamp President. Then you have the rest. They can afford to stay at home they just choose not to. They want the 3 plasma TVs throughout the house, the premium bundled cable/internet/phone with DVR, the two cars, eating out 4 times a week, the top of the line clothes and tennis shoes for themselves and their little darlings, and the vacations. Then you have the ones that didn't think things through. Didn't think about the cost of having a family and went ahead and did it anyway even though they couldn't afford it on one person's salary. Trust me it can be done. People just want their toys and will sacrifice their kids childhood to get them.

Seeking Sanity--what rant? Hilary didnt apologize and the progressives on here continue to attack Anne and cant just say it was wrong. Instead, this attempt at rationalizing the comment really makes you look like hypocrites. So if my statements have no merit or fact--then correct me and explain where I am wrong. I actually gave you the opening in my post to do so and is the problem that you cant?

jrl-281852

I have seen many comments about Mrs. Romney not working a day in her life, out side the home, and how this some how makes here less qualified to be first lady or that it must mean that she has not given something back to society.

It certainly doesn't disqualify her to be First Lady, but it does rather disqualify her as someone who can speak from experience for the problem of working women. (With five kids, she probably doesn't know much about contraception, either).

I find these to be some of the most sexist comments ever.

More wingnut hypocrisy. If you were REALLY concerned about sexism, you'd be strongly opposed to the repeal of the law mandating equal pay for equal work in Wisconsin by the far-right governor there, and by Mitt Romney's mealy-mouthed equivocation on whether he backs the Lilly Ledbetter equal pay law at the federal level.

Remember Henry Ford? Here's a few excerpts from -

Excellent comment, blearyeyed!

Henry Ford believed that it was only fair to pay his workers well enough to be able to afford to buy the products they produced.

Because of Ford's foresight, the American auto industry and the middle class grew strong, hand in hand. If only the industrialists of today were so patriotic.

JAS1,

Not much better in Chicago: "Chicago homicides soar . . . "

Gang crime. Al and Jesse won't march there. Fear of getting shot perhaps?

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton make the living going into those places preaching against violence, drugs and gangs. Your comment is baseless and idiotic.

I saw Jesse speak and met with him in 1978 at David Star Jordan High School in Watts. Yeah that's right Watts! He and Al are not afraid to go where you wouldn't dare tread. I may not be a big fan of theirs but they are not afraid of the inner city communities that you seem to disparage with zeal.

btw I'm a white male so I have no axe grind here.

There is in fact a war on women, but not from Republicans. Liberals bash all those they consider conservative women. Rosen is just the latest example. Not surprising that today all the liberals can do is try and justify her statement, rather then admit they have openly disenfranchised women for years if they did not share the same ideology.

You have to love the race rant by Michelle Williams. What, no call for civility from Obama? Quite frankly Obama wants racial tension, he feels that will work for him in the upcoming election. Obama's class warfare, race warfare, partisan politics, are all starting to boiling over. Obama is destined to be remembered as the great divider.

saxon

and she battled multiple sclerosis in 1998 and underwent a lumpectomy for a tumor.....

Any of you critics gone through these issues? Fiesty? Kaybee? Point is, she's a strong woman who may make some of the women in this room uncomfortable.

@kaybeetoys

Henry Ford believed that it was only fair to pay his workers well enough to be able to afford to buy the products they produced.

Because of Ford's foresight, the American auto industry and the middle class grew strong, hand in hand. If only the industrialists of today were so patriotic.

You can't honestly believe it is that simple can you? Henry Ford didn't need to hire an army of lawyers to staff an entire compliance department. In the past 11 years our two failed Presidents have added 54 billion dollars worth of new regulation on top of what was already there. Where do you think that money comes from? The regulation fairy? Henry Ford didn't have to deal with ANY of the BS a business owner does today. The FACT, whether you want to accept it or not, is that if Henry Ford tried to do things today the way he did them back then his business would almost certainly fail. Hell, he wouldn't even be able to get the permits to build his factory today.

Allah dictates that women raising children is a hard enough job as it is, whether you are rich or poor and no man would disagree. In fact, Allah dictates it is SO HARD women SHOULD only stay home and raise the kids. Men need to do the other jobs in the word. Well, women can make dinner for everybody, too. And sew robes. You get the point.

BUT what is IMPORTANT to know is that NO GODLESS STATE should help women out. If they want help, they can pray for rich husbands and servants, and if they are Muslim enough, they will receive them. Obviously poor women are poor because they did something wrong, like not pray to Mecca 5 times a day or something like that. Don't forget, women are inherently evil. So, most women are just going to have to raise kids on their own.

That's why, by the way, a man should be able to have 4 wives. How else will they get money and servants to raise children? And Allah knows they should be having a LOT of children. Why do you think they shouldn't drive? Do you want women running away from their responsibilities? Lake of fire for eternity for you should you ever help a woman get behind the wheel of a car.

Clearly Muslim Republicans see this logic and want the godless communists out of government. Then the Koran can be installed as our government and we can get back to men only workplaces. Remember my Muslim Republican Brothers, pray to Allah!

Why should rep. Allen West apologize? Liberals used to get bent out of shape about being called "Socialists" and now you proudly embrace themselves in that description. Why don't you guys just admit it. You are communists.

Why don't all you "enlightened" socialists tell me just how good things will be after another 4 years of your messiah when our nation's debt is around $30 Trillion? Yes, keep charging it on our tab, and then wonder why the nation's (perhaps the global) financial system collapses. It has to be what you are hoping for.....ah there's that "hope and change."

The left attacking Mrs. Romney? Just goes to show what hypocrites the left are. Blaming the other side for what they themselves are doing.

Mr. Obama mentioned the other day that trickle down economics doesn't work. Well, neither does trickle up poverty.

Apples and oranges, mrwarmth.

Rosen's point was about the suitability- of a wealthy, stay-at-home mother who married very young and never worked outside the home for wages- to advise her husband on the needs and issues of working mothers.

I'll agree that Ann Romney is a fine, strong woman, a wonderful mother and wife, etc.

That does not mean she can understand the needs and issues of middle-class working mothers. Will you disagree with that?

Rosens' sneering comment is very revealing and brings to light a bigotry among feminists. They really don't like it when women choose to stay at home with their kids. While they talk a good game about opening up opportunities for women to choose they, in fact, look down at women who reject the career path. Rather than applauding Ann Romney for doing an excellent job raising 5 kids while overcoming the health issues she has had she is mocked for being able to stay at home.

Question: Would Rosen feel better if Ann Romney worked and contributed more wealth to the Romney household? Doubt it.

Gee, too bad for Feisty and the rest of you libs who are trying to avoid Hilary Rosen's major attack of foot-in-mouth by changing the subject on this thread. This gaff is all over the TV and radio, and the damage to Dems is so bad that Rosen's own employer, CNN, is on her case, and Michele Obama herself is on damge control duty, telling us all how wonderful and necessary stay at home moms are........bwahahaha!

kaybeetoys,

Your argument is bunk. Michelle Obama has never had cancer. Does that mean she is unable to understand the needs and issues of cancer survivors?

Kirk: "Hilary didnt apologize and the progressives on here continue to attack Anne and cant just say it was wrong."

Whoa, no one is attacking Anne. She seems nice enough but I bet I'd look nice too if my husband pulled in hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Yep, I'd look really happy.

Now for you who say that Democrats hate women who stay at home with the kids.... I fully plan to stay home with my children when I have some but right now my husband and I can't afford it so I take birth control (something the Republicans are trying to get rid of in the female health care regimine). I take it for other reasons too but that's why I'm still on it.

Anyhoo, I plan to stay at home with the kids for as long as I can but if we are never financially able to let me stay home I will HAVE to work to put food on the table and medical expenses for our sweet little bundle of joy. I won't have a choice unless I want to live in squalor and deprive my child of necessary nutrition and medical care. That is, unless I get on ~gasp~ welfare, which is something I never want to have to do (as I'm sure most people feel that way).

This is not a hard concept. If I want my child to have opportunities and go to a good school we have to be financially ready (something that won't happen for a while) but accidents happen because no birth control is 100% effective.

Anne Romney doesn't have this experience and has never had this problem in her whole life. She cannot relate to my problems, sadly, because I think obstacles build character. I know that raising children, especially with a life-threatening illness is in no way easy or moderately hard. I'm sure it's very difficult but few people have this problem (aka: she cannot relate to the average woman).

In my short life, I've had way too many hardships already... I could enumerate but it's a long list and I'm sure few of you want to know about my personal life. Lets just say Anne is far from being one of my peers.

kaybeetoys

"That does not mean she can understand the needs and issues of middle-class working mothers. Will you disagree with that?"

I do not know what she knows and does not know. Perhaps she was middle class growing up? I simply think any women who successfully went through those horrible, scary, diseases have my admiration. I have friends and relatives who have also battled breast cancer and other diseases. Some lost their battle at a young age. I just don't see the reason to bash her.

MGates,

No one is trying to get rid of contraception. Forcing insurance to provide it FREE or forcing conscientious objectors to provide it FREE against their religious values wrong!

Second, you don't have to live in squalor to be able to relate to people in need. She has not always been rich but even if she were that doesn't mean she knows nothing about the struggles of people who are not rich.

Q22

kaybeetoys,

Your argument is bunk. Michelle Obama has never had cancer. Does that mean she is unable to understand the needs and issues of cancer survivors?

Does Michelle Obama claim to understand the needs and issues of cancer survivors? Does her husband go to her as an expert for advice on that topic?

I simply think any women who successfully went through those horrible, scary, diseases have my admiration. I have friends and relatives who have also battled breast cancer and other diseases. Some lost their battle at a young age. I just don't see the reason to bash her.

I admire Ann Romney in many ways, but don't see her an an expert on the needs and issues of middle class working mothers. Her life is not the life of a typical American woman. That is simple reality.

No one is bashing Ann Romney. If you want to see some real bashing, read the things that have been said about Michelle Obama.

Your statement was :

That does not mean she can understand the needs and issues of middle-class working mothers.

Nothing about being an expert - You don't think she CAN understand the needs and issues of middle-class working mothers. You suggest that she is incapable of even the slightest understanding of middle-class working women. Total bunk.

And there is nothing wrong with Romney, seeking insights on issues involving women, to turn to the woman he is closest to. I think Ann Romney is an expert on being a woman and mother. Here insights are therefore valuable.

bill fairfax in VA.; take home pay increased 18% from 1970 -2007; HOWEVER inflation increased 137%

Ummm, real income increased by 18 percent. That means income after accounting for inflation.

kaybeetoys

Well, if Romney wins, Ann Romney could be in for it too. It's our society now. Just read the posts here. Division is the problem now. I can still see the unforgettable Rodney King asking "Can't we all just get along." Sorry Rodney...apparently NO...hell, we can't even be civil toward one another

Bill in Fairfaux is one shameless individual!!!! On all accounts!

Actually, what's shameless is the fact that folks of your ilk completely ignore that CBO concluded EVERYONE was better off in 2007 than they were in 1979. Thanks for reading.

NDDr; heartfelt account of your situation, thank you for sharing.

Let's just agree that Ann Romney is the Marie Antoinette of the Republican party. Swaddled in lace, Queen Ann can ride her six figure horses 'round about (when she's not driving those Cadillacs, of course) and then call the estate to see if the maids need help raising the children.

Hey, "R's" don't forget to have a big, fat slice of RomneyCare cake today, mmmmmkay.

Q22: "Second, you don't have to live in squalor to be able to relate to people in need. She has not always been rich but even if she were that doesn't mean she knows nothing about the struggles of people who are not rich."

I don't think that she knows nothing of the struggles of those in need but I don't think she knows very much. How could you if you've never had to struggle. It's like people who have never been through child birth saying "I have a high tolerance for pain, I'll be just fine I think." You don't know until you 've been there the type of pain involved because there's nothing like it.

There's also nothing like trying to fall asleep though you don't know what's going to become of you and where you're going to live because rent has gone up for the third time in the last three years (which was too expensive to begin with) and you've searched for a cheaper place for the entire month with nothing available. You can't go up in rent more so than keeping rent the same. Neither are viable options for you because you just got a new job which pays less but should make you happier. You have a college degree on which you are paying student loans that are about to become wage garnishments if you can't make payments soon and then you'll really be in a mess. Add children to this mixture (pregnancies that could have been prevented but the mother wanted to do the right thing and keep their child) and it gets WAY messier.

No, I don't think Anne Romney with several cadillacs can relate to staying home with a dying mother and grandfather because there's not enough money to pay a nurse and they want to die at home. I don't think she can relate to trying to pay the bills, put money on the table, and pay off loans while worrying about a blessed event cropping up. I don't think she's ever known hardship like many many Americans have and I don't think she should be asked about the problems of working women when she has no real life experience to offer.

bill in fairfax, va.; nope, wrong on that one, the GAO, own report has stated that the real take home pay adjusted for 1980 dollars is down a whopping 40%, now you can see what politics (rep&dem), has caused a collapse of the goose that laid the golden eggs (the middle class).

Class Warfare

The U.S. has the most progressive tax system among developed economies according to an OECD report based on mid-2000s data. Other analysis shows our tax system has become steadily MORE progressive over the years. In 1980 the top 10% of our earners paid a little over 49% of total federal income taxes while the bottom 50% of earners paid about 7 percent. But by 2008 the top 10% paid about 70% of all federal income taxes while the bottom 50% paid less than 3 percent.

The fact is the highest earners among us are bearing an overwhelmingly large share of the federal income tax burden at the same time that our lowest earners have seen their federal income tax burdens steadily decline. So by any reasonable standard there should be no question that high earners are paying their "fair share." Indeed, it would be more reasonable to argue these folks are paying a lot more than their "fair share."

But in liberal la la land, reasoned argument is always trumped by ideology because to them paying 70% of our taxes just isn't quite fair enough. Nope, these evildoers make way too much money and it should be obvious to the meanest of intelligence that they should be forced to spread more of their wealth around to the half of the country that pays almost no federal income taxes. After all, fair is fair.

This is, of course, bogus claptrap because when leftist politicians promise to tax Peter in order to pay Paul what they are doing is explicitly targeting the support of Paul. And even as they pursue the strategy of buying Paul's vote, they will shamelessly insist they are not engaging in class warfare. They will shamelessly insist they are not pursuing a divisive electoral strategy designed to pit the haves against the have-nots. To the contrary, they will piously preach that their goals are pure as the driven snow and based on noble notions of equity and fairness -- because after all, paying 70% of our taxes just isn't quite fair enough.

Fortunately, polling suggests that most Americans (and most independents, in particular) prefer having an economy based on opportunity where government lives within its means and are less bothered by notions of economic or tax fairness that an activist government would step in and "fix." But that hasn't stopped the left from pushing this narrative because they see Romney as a rich guy whose success can be used as a club against him. Hence all the shouting about the Buffet Rule, a gimmick which would barely make a dent in our country's mountain of debt but which can be used to inflame the ill informed into rallying around the Democratic class warfare flag.

That's a curious strategy to be sure, especially in a country with such a rich history of celebrating exceptional achievement – achievement that most folks would opt to emulate rather than denigrate. But when a guy like Obama doesn't have a record to run on (because it's the economy, stupid) he needs to figure out ways to distract attention from his obvious shortcomings and frame the election in terms that are less antagonistic to him. That's why a failing ideology has picked class warfare as their wedge issue of choice.

It remains to be seen whether the president's strategy will work, but we already know this: the truth tends to be obscured by all the smoke Obama and his leftist minions keep blowing. But that's just fine with them, it's the way these people operate. The challenge for the rest of us is to cut through the haze and keep our eye on the ball, lest we make a poor choice that would give us the government we deserve instead of the informed choice that would give us the government we need.

Ben, while America does have a progressive tax system, that was mainly caused by the increase in the amount of income the wealthiest Americans controlled. Nowadays, the top 20% of Americans, who seem to pay more in taxes, control 93% of all income earned in America, leaving a paltry 7% for the remaining four-fifths of America.

You do know that the reason why the rich pay more in taxes is in part because they have lower tax rates??? I know it sounds irrational, but it's true. That is because of additional tax breaks and because many cannot pay taxes because of poverty, employment, or retirement reasons.

I do support broadening the tax base, but I also think we need to address the wealth gap. One of the ways to do that is to raise the effective tax rate on the wealthy, as that would slow the growth of their income to buy enough time for helping the middle class.

Nobody is saying that we don't want an economy based on opportunity. I highly doubt there is a Democrat in the government who opposes that. And to be correct, class warfare is in itself a lie. Asking the wealthy to pay a rate that is higher than many middle class families is class warfare??? I think not.

Class warfare was a diversion by the right-wing to serve as an excuse for them refusing to raise taxes on even the wealthiest Americans. Nobody accused Reagan of instigating class warfare when he rose taxes on the wealthy; so why now??? The GOP is desperate; desperate to find an excuse for their blind support for the so-called "job-creators."

Mitt Romney made his success in the private sector, and there is nothing wrong with that. The problem is that he paid such a low tax rate because of a stupid loophole in the tax code. Simply returning rates to Clinton levels would greatly reduce the deficit, and maybe even narrow the wealth gap so the government can start investing in things like education and job training so the middle class can make a comeback. Sorry Bill, but class warfare doesn't exist. It was just an excuse made up by the GOP.

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

CLASS WARFARE MY ASS.

Hilary Rosen? What office does she hold?

You paint with a pretty broad brush. There are a few "MOMS" that can't afford to stay at home with their kids. Single moms who thought it would be nice to have a child without the hassle of having a husband/father around. A few where the father doesn't make enough to support the family because of the current Obama economy. Thank God for the Food Stamp President. Then you have the rest. They can afford to stay at home they just choose not to. They want the 3 plasma TVs throughout the house, the premium bundled cable/internet/phone with DVR, the two cars, eating out 4 times a week, the top of the line clothes and tennis shoes for themselves and their little darlings, and the vacations. Then you have the ones that didn't think things through. Didn't think about the cost of having a family and went ahead and did it anyway even though they couldn't afford it on one person's salary. Trust me it can be done. People just want their toys and will sacrifice their kids childhood to get them.

Your brush looks pretty dang broad to me, Svenolafson. Just sayin'.

Well, if Romney wins, Ann Romney could be in for it too.

Ann Romney can rest easy on that, mrwarmth. :)

OBAMA/BIDEN 2012

ToxicChemist

Why should rep. Allen West apologize? Liberals used to get bent out of shape about being called "Socialists" and now you proudly embrace themselves in that description. Why don't you guys just admit it. You are communists.

Why don't all you "enlightened" socialists tell me just how good things will be after another 4 years of your messiah when our nation's debt is around $30 Trillion? Yes, keep charging it on our tab, and then wonder why the nation's (perhaps the global) financial system collapses. It has to be what you are hoping for.....ah there's that "hope and change."

The left attacking Mrs. Romney? Just goes to show what hypocrites the left are. Blaming the other side for what they themselves are doing.

Mr. Obama mentioned the other day that trickle down economics doesn't work. Well, neither does trickle up poverty.

First thing: our national debt is expected to be $20 trillion, not $30 trillion.

As for Allen West, he should apologize because he is doing the same thing McCarthy did in the 50s. He's brandishing his opponents as fascists. He is supposed to be representative of his constituents and act as such; similar to when a school team goes out of town for a game, they should represent their schoolmates respectively. Essentially, West implied that his constituents are communist-baiting idiots that are stuck in the 1950s.

Tell me, if President Obama called Romney a Nazi, wouldn't you be outraged?? Wouldn't you demand an apology???? The same applies for West.

It is a fact that trickle-down economics does not work. Trickle up poverty is just a right-wing response to the failure of trickle-down economics. Essentially, the GOP thinks that we shouldn't return to the rates of previous administrations (notably the Clinton administration) because it will encourage the rich to leave America. But that is not easy, as America is a huge market with high profit margins. Increasing taxes slightly by returning to Clinton rates would barely make a dent in the profit margins of Corporate America. It would also enable the government to invest more in infrastructure and education and to pay down the debt. Nice try at spinning the truth, though.

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

As a result of that uneven income growth, the distribu- tion of after-tax household income in the United States was substantially more unequal in 2007 than in 1979: The share of income accruing to higher-income house- holds increased, whereas the share accruing to other households declined. In fact, between 2005 and 2007, the after-tax income received by the 20 percent of the population with the highest income exceeded the after- tax income of the remaining 80 percent.

Only in your world is this okay Bill.

.

Freshiee--you always conveniently avoid the facts as they really are and never reply to the posts that call out your factual inaccuracies. There is no part of the tax system that has the rich paying more than the average middle class worker and you know it. The average middle class worker has an effective federal income tax rate of 7% more than 50% less than the so called loophole filled rate that Romney supposedly paid. You forget to mention that the company that Romney owned in which he received the capital gains rate on paid taxes at 35% so his capital gains rate was a double tax on the same earnings. Regardless of whether the tax code if fair or equitable in its application, please provide the correct information otherwise it seems like you are just campaigning and not really interested in the truth. You also forget to factor in that business income is now reflected on individual tax returns for 70% of businesses which distorts your income control statistic. For example, if Facebook before it went public were owned by Zuckerberg in a flow through entity, his income would reflect the income of Facebook even if such income is really not being distributed or used by Zuckerberg. It clearly helps him build up wealth but distorts your income figures tremendously.

As for trickle down economics, it all depends on what part of the cycle you want to measure it. In 1999, my guess most people would have been saying trickle down was working very well. It works both ways, look how the fiscal conservatives complain about the war on poverty and the $16 trillion dollars spent on it and if you measure it looking backwards today, you might say poverty is worse and the progressive programs of generational dependence on the government has made the problem worse but at the same time you could point to the fact that the average poor family in America has living space larger than the middle class homes in Europe, two cars, all modern appliances, flat screen TV, both an Xbox and Wii, DVD player so maybe elevating the standard of living of our poor has been a success? So complaining about trickle down or any economic theory never looks good when the economy is sickly.

So one person who doesn't even represent any campaign says something true and this will correct Romney and the Republican gender gap with women? And Ann Romney is going to appear on FOX Noise, and this will reach progressives or even Independents? NOT.

The fact is stay home mothers, especially those who stay home even after the kids are in school, are in a position that most struggling working poor and middle class women can't enjoy. The fact is Ann is not, and does not identify with the large number of career women who must compete in Corporate America and face sexism in the workplace.

Add to this the wealth from her husband and family that she's enjoyed her entire adult life, and there is even more of a disconnect. And add to that the religious mentality expressed by Michelle Bachmann:

"The Lord says be submissive. Wives, you are to be submissive to your husbands." – Michele Bachmann, October 2006

The comment by Hilary Rosen not only is friggin' true in regard to an identification problem, it is NOT going to make a dent in support from Democrats or even Independents. The other Mormon women out there, or women like Santorum's wife will vote for the candidate with an (R) next to his name no matter what.

The gender gap is there and will always be there for the far-Right, and rightfully so. Most Americans want to move forward, not backward. Obama/Biden - 2012!

@Freshieee

Nowadays, the top 20% of Americans, who seem to pay more in taxes, control 93% of all income earned in America, leaving a paltry 7% for the remaining four-fifths of America.

BS, please get your facts straight before you attempt to use then to make your point. The top 20% control the vast majority of the WEALTH not income (and it's is more like 85% not 93%). There is a difference. For example the assets of a business would be considered "wealth". The top 20% is any HOUSEHOLD making more than 97k so we're hardley talking about "rich" people here. Studies show that the top quintile earn about 61% of the INCOME, a far cry from the 93% you claim.-http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

You do know that the reason why the rich pay more in taxes is in part because they have lower tax rates???

More BS, you should really spend some time fact checking. The average middle class family pays approx 15% of their income in various Federal taxes, the average millionaire pays 29%.

The other thing you libs NEVER take into consideration is income mobility.

"There was considerable income mobility of individuals in the U.S. economy during the 1996 through 2005 period as over half of taxpayers moved to a different income quintile over this period.

Roughly half of taxpayers who began in the bottom income quintile in 1996 moved up to a higher income group by 2005.
Among those with the very highest incomes in 1996 – the top 1/100 of 1 percent – only 25 percent remained in this group in 2005. Moreover, the median real income of these taxpayers declined over this period.
The degree of mobility among income groups is unchanged from the prior decade (1987 through 1996).

Economic growth resulted in rising incomes for most taxpayers over the period from 1996 to 2005. Median incomes of all taxpayers increased by 24 percent after adjusting for inflation. The real incomes of two-thirds of all taxpayers increased over this period. In addition, the median incomes of those initially in the lower income groups increased more than the median incomes of those initially in the higher income groups. "- http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/tax-policy/Documents/incomemobilitystudy03-08revise.pdf

You act like "poor" people are helpless victims held down by the rich when the reality is that "poor" people routinely move up and out of poverty.

OK kaybeetoys I will.....:)

Alright, I'll admit that maybe I made a mistake. I probably read a statistic wrong. But I do know the difference between wealth (assets) and income (earned money).

And either way, we have some of the highest income inequality levels in the developed world. While economics typically tells us that we shouldn't worry about it, it eventually comes to a level that is too high for sustainable growth. Yes, the poor are relatively rich compared to those in poverty in other nations, but we also have to deal with this. In my opinion, taxes for everyone should go up, but I would also seek to decrease income inequality by insuring affordable healthcare via a single-payer system and a decent education system.

But let me tell you this; there is no class warfare in asking the wealthiest Americans to pay just a little more. And technically speaking, hasn't the amount of income paid in taxes by upper-class Americans decreased from roughly 30% to 18.1%???

In addition, 60% of the middle bracket saw an increase in after-tax income by 40% from 1979 to 2007, relatively good, but nothing compared to the 275% increase by the top 1%. In addition, the bottom 90% saw their after-tax income decrease by $900 over the same period. Not a very good time. We had a bout of income inequality declining after the tech-boom in the 90s, but I'm going to guess that the 2001 recession, the subsequent Bush tax cuts, and the 2008 recession increased inequality to present levels. All this is according to the CBO.

Backcountry: "the reality is that 'poor' people routinely move up and out of poverty."

How do you think that happens? Just genuinely curious as to your thoughts.

Only in your world is this okay Bill.

And tomorrow I'll explain why so even a dull knife like you can understand it. Stay tuned.

Why don't you take your Rush Limbaugh garbage over to the Fox "News" boards? They'll eat it up no doubt. No original thoughts in your brain, that's a fact. Hurry now, you might miss Rush today. You'll need his material for your essay tomorrow, Bill. Another fact I've learned from you.

@Freshieee

And either way, we have some of the highest income inequality levels in the developed world.

That is so misleading I can't help but wonder if you're trying to fool people or if you're the one who's been fooled. Nearly 1/3 of all the millionaires in the world live here. I'm not seeing how that's a bad thing or why on Earth anyone would think it is. With so many of the worlds wealthy living in one country it is obviously going to skew any measure of "income inequality". Most millionaires are small business owners, they CREATE wealth, that's a good thing. You acknowledge poor people here are better off than they are other places but fail to realize they are so because so much wealth is created in our country. Again, a GOOD thing. Yes those at the top get a bigger and bigger piece of the pie but it is because of them that the pie has grown so large that there is more for everyone. Taking away from those who create wealth so there is more to give to those who don't may make people feel better, it may make them believe it's "fairer" but is most certainly will not improve our economy. Those people you're taking from ARE the economy, remember, the government has no mechanism to create wealth, that falls entirely on the private sector. The more you take from the creators the less they'll be able to create and the less incentive there will be for them to try. The more wealth that is created or, in other words, the more growth in the economy, the better off we all are. It is so simple yet so many just refuse to see it.

Driving away the creators and reducing the incentive for them to come here is not going to help the economy grow. Every year the US grants thousands of EB-5 Visa's, the so called "millionaire visa", requiring the person to invest a million dollars and create at least 10 jobs. The number of these people entering the country continues to rise each year; reversing this trend by demonizing and punishing those with wealth will most certainly reduce the "income gap" but I still don't see why you think that would be a positive.

@MGates73

Backcountry: "the reality is that 'poor' people routinely move up and out of poverty."

How do you think that happens? Just genuinely curious as to your thoughts.

The Treasury Dept study I quoted doesn't address the reasons why so I can only speculate. One sure reason is that many of the people in the bottom quintile are young and just starting out. As they get older they get better jobs. Many more are immigrants with little to start out with. Regardless of the standard liberal talking points the vast majority of people are able to improve their lot in life in a variety of ways. Most people achieve a higher standard of living than their parents did. It is no coincidence that those who get stuck in place at the bottom are the ones who rely heavily on government assistance. Giving these people even more "help" is the equivalent of giving a crack addict more and more crack expecting it will break his habit.

Backcountry; the income inequality rate is very high; look at any statistic. And yes, I know more millionaires live in America. But do we value the wealthy so much that we are afraid to be fair in order to keep their favor???

I'm not trying to drive away rich people; I'm trying to be practical. Yes, the pie keeps growing; and yes, a rising tide lifts all boats. But still; what is so bad about going back to Clinton tax rates?? We didn't have a wave of millionaires leave the country then, did we???

In addition, there is no certainty that having so much wealth here in America is automatically going to cause income inequality on the scale that we have now. Just as economics states that there doesn't have to be any poverty. And either way, the income gap is still too high. I personally blame trickle-down economics for that, but I realize that things like technology and the dominance of the brain over brawn (otherwise known as Revenge of the Nerds) have also played a huge part. But we can still fight it; we just need to focus.

And reducing income inequality can improve the economy. Taxing the wealthy won't, unless the revenues are used for tax breaks or programs for the middle and lower class. But we shouldn't rule out taxing the wealthy just because we are afraid of them leaving. Where are they going to leave??? Sure there are other countries out there, but none have the diversified economic demographics like we have. It's not class warfare; it's math.

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

@Freshieee

Backcountry; the income inequality rate is very high; look at any statistic. And yes, I know more millionaires live in America. But do we value the wealthy so much that we are afraid to be fair in order to keep their favor???

You guys really need to drop the "fair" BS. Asking one group to pay for most everything is not "fair" just because they happen to have more than the next guy. If you want it so bad at least have the balls to call it what it is. Should a rich person pay more for an identical car than someone in the middle class? Would you really call that "fair"? Should our utility bills be based on income so that the more you make the higher rate you pay? Would you really call that "fair"? Should rich people be charged double at the grocery store or the gas station? Would you really call that "fair"? Give me a break.

Who gives fck about "income inequality" as long as everyone has the opportunity to better themselves. Even the term is nothing more than standard liberal BS and rhetoric. "Income inequality" WTF are you even talking about? Do you really believe everyones income should be equal? Of course not, so we'll always have "income inequality". Just a fancy catch phrase to rile up the sheeple.

Amy in Portland Me

I find it funny how the left has no respect for Anne Romney for being a stay a home mom but they love to give a pass to their voters the WELFARE QUEENS of this country. I guess if your an unwed baby making machine on the government tit who has never hadto support theirselves or their children that okay. I'm sure those WELFARE Queens know how hard it is to get up every morning and go to work to support their children.

Please do not tell me how hard these women have it in life. They made a presonal choice to get pregnant when they knew they had no way to support their children. Before you call me a hateful republican please let me set you straight. I'm Mother who raised my two children without any government support by working with very little financial help from their father. Tired of the pity party from the leeches of the Democratic party.

gideb114

You will not find anywhere that "welfare queens" vote, at all.

Your solution to your "unwed baby making machines" was missed. However, I can tell you that those in or below poverty lines tend to rise up. Planned Parenthood, education subsidies, job placement programs, and all help lift people out of poverty.

Statistically, those on government welfare are on a maximum of 1.5 years. By then, they dig themselves out of the hole they are in.

Like you, those below your income work just as hard to better themselves and usually do, as proved by the statistics above. Like you, they also have to raise children without the support of their children's fathers.

If the Romneys fart, they make 20 million a year. They will never know the choice of keeping the electric on or the water. Those types of decisions will never be a debate in their family.

Anne certainly deserves the respect any mother deserves. She also deserves some credit for tolerating the venting process of Mitt's campaign. Any other respect she receives must be earned.

Your "leeches" comment is absurd. I make 60k a year and my wife works. We are Democrats. Over half of Congress are Democrats, but they are hardly leeches. The right wing rhetoric you've been led to believe is false.

Believe it or not, poverty doesn't have a political party. It happens regardless of their party affiliation. I have republican friends and family that fell to poverty during the Great Recession. I seen the anguish they felt when they signed up for government assistance, as they needed to survive. It was a humbling event in their lives.

Once again, those leeches are not any one party. They are Americans.

Funny she attacks stay at home mom’s as non working, that’s the hardest never ending job in the world with NO PAY! Yet Michelle has never worked a day in her life either…..she got paid to SHOW UP at her “job” at the hospital and didn’t do any work

California Tom

A few observations. Allen West, the idiot Senator from Florida,

Gee Tom, not very observant, Allan West is a US Representative, not a Senator as opposed to Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Barry’s personal attack dog. She is the idiot we need to get rid of!

Pat Boston MA.

JoAnna, perhaps you should be angry that an unarmed teenager is dead for no reason, other than walking home.

MSNBC did what it was supposed to do as a news outlet. Point out the injustices in this country.

No, he is dead because he picked a fight with the wrong man! MSNBC only likes to bait racial tensions to keep Barry in office. Im still waiting for a CURRENT picture of Trayvon with his GOLD GRILL, not the pictures of him at age 12, BEFORE he turned into a THUG!

Freshieee, $20 Trillion, $30 Trillion....it really doesn't matter after you get to the point where we're screwed and the person holding the country's credit card is on a spending bender. My figure was an estimation based on where we are right now. You really think that after 3.5 years and about $7 Trillion spent already that his next term he would only spend half of that? Now, who's not facing reality?

Who gives fck about "income inequality" as long as everyone has the opportunity to better themselves. Even the term is nothing more than standard liberal BS and rhetoric. "Income inequality" WTF are you even talking about? Do you really believe everyones income should be equal? Of course not, so we'll always have "income inequality". Just a fancy catch phrase to rile up the sheeple.

You do realize that income inequality can hurt economic growth, right???? Without enough money going to the most important sectors of the economy (the middle class), an economy based on consumption cannot grow sufficiently. Essentially, income inequality when reaching historic levels can affect macroeconomics. And what I am proposing (repeal the Bush tax cuts for everyone) will NOT drive the rich away or hurt investment. It will simply try to make a dent in the wealth gap and in our deficit.

Fedup-You seem pretty tense and uninformed. Lemme tell you that ALLEN WEST accused 76 Democrats of being COMMUNISTS. Not idiots, not liberals, not uncompromising members of the left, but COMMUNISTS. You know, the guys from Russia that killed millions of people and stuffed thousands more into harsh gulags. Where's the outrage??? What if Obama called Allen West a Nazi??? You'd be up in arms on that, wouldn't ya??? Allen West and the rest of his dopey Tea Party freshmen are the idiots we need to get rid of!

And Trayvon Martin did not pick a fight with George Zimmerman. The 911 tape records state that Zimmerman followed Martin even when he was told not to, and then they got into a scuffle. And what makes you think a kid with a gold grill is a thug??? Looks like your being the racist here, Fedup. Zimmerman didn't even get arrested for killing Martin; that's the problem. They shouldn't have taken his word at face-value. But they did. Deal with it.

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

Freshieee Uniformed? Please!

Wasserman Schultz blasted cut, cap as "yet another thinly veiled attempt by our colleagues across the aisle to end Medicare as we know it" while retaining tax breaks for millionaires. The comment aimed at West: "Incredulously, the gentleman from Florida, who represents thousands of Medicare beneficiaries, as do I, is supportive of this plan that would increase costs for Medicare beneficiaries. Unbelievable for a member from South Florida."

This childish behavior is unprofessional and Inappropriate from Wasserman-Schultz. It is also another democratic lie to the elderly. The truth is Medicare cuts are being made with Obamacare! Where is YOUR outrage?

West called out the Congressional Progressive Caucus for their extreme left-wing positions. The Progressive Caucus advocates for state control over industries, redistribution of wealth, reduced individual economic freedom, and the destruction of free markets. Members of this Caucus lavished praise on Fidel Castro following a 2009 visit to Cuba. They have even introduced a constitutional amendment to redistribute wealth.

You can call them whatever you want, but the point is, they oppose free markets and individual economic freedom, they are determined to empower government to redistribute wealth, and they want to see the nation fundamentally transformed. Their policies are destructive and he will stand up to them regardless of the critics.

Funny but witnesses said that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman. Trayvon was on top of him punching him in the face. Trayvon WAS a thug, he was dealing drugs in school and was suspended. How else did he AFFORD the gold grill? His own facebook page showed friends asking for a plant! I dont think he was selling rose bushes! Your naivety is astounding

@Freshieee

You do realize that income inequality can hurt economic growth, right???? Without enough money going to the most important sectors of the economy (the middle class), an economy based on consumption cannot grow sufficiently.

Yes I do realize that. I also realize that an apple is not an orange. Just because the wealthy have the most in no way implies that there is not "enough money going to the most important sectors". And btw, where exactly do you think that money for "the most important sectors" comes from? Do you think it comes from the government? No, it comes from the people you want to take more money away from.

You seem to be stuck on this delusional fantasy that the government can spend money wisely to "invest more in infrastructure and education and to pay down the debt". The first one always costs more than it should when it is the government in charge, the second has been proven to be an utter waste of tax dollars and the third, well, I can only laugh my @ss off. You can't honestly believe Obama has any inclination to pay down the debt can you? Surely no one is that stupid. He called the Ryan budget plan "social Darwinism" and it doesn't even balance the budget for 30 friggin years let alone address the debt.

Sorry dude but your utter willingness to embrace any BS that fits your predisposition, as shown yesterday by your lack of any hesitation to rant and rave about "facts" and figures you pulled right out of your @ss, pretty much discredits you. Why don't you start to look at things honestly and listen to more than just the people who are telling you what you want to hear. And I'll say it again for good measure, knock it off with the "fair" BS, there is absolutely nothing "fair" about your position.

State government is much different than national government.

National government has to deal with issues that never even cross a state government's mind.

But doughboy doesn't want to run for president or even be VP now does he?

The Fosz-4254828,

Your right just look at all the laws in State where republicans are in charge.

In one state your vote don't even count, they appoint manager to take over cities and have total power about how the city would be run. You do get to vote on issues or vote for elected governing bodies. Right Wing dictatorships and some how this will make the cities better. Every vote in the cities do not count any more. WOW. What the hell is going on in the rwnjs mind?

@Joe in Albany Christie will never be President even if his approval rating in NJ reached 100%

You know why because this nation is not made up of NJ residence. His lies and bully tactics will turn off the most conservative voter in Utah and other places.

I know you want to compare Chrispy Cream approval ratings to the Presidents but the survey of the President is computed by the various states not just one State.

I know, you want to say see see see the President is not as popular as a GOP person see see I told you so. At the same time pointing to one person.

How about pointing to Scott Walker or Scott Brown they live in one State why don't you compare their approval numbers to the President's?

I thought you would say " But But But But"

Butt my azz - clown go home you just got punked

Christie is a bully.

He also has a reputation for spending too much of his work day at the feeding trough.

Not presidential material.

He also has a reputation for spending too much of his work day at the feeding trough.

Kaybee, source please?

WCA, my own two eyes.

clown go home you just got punked

Actually, you just punked yourself with your incoherent rant.

Yeah, Kaybee, Pretty sure that doesn't count.

Thanks for playing and stop voting for your own posts, it's just, well, sad.

Yea, Joe, let's just wait until the effects of Chris Christie's anti-education agenda are evident. His poll numbers will plummet faster than our children's reading and writing skills.

TO: Joe in Albany who wrote:

"Governor Chris Cristie has better poll numbers than Barry!!!!!!..."

Is Cristie running for POTUS? No.

Does anyone outside of New Jersey give a hoot about Chris Cristie? No.

Maybe because Chris Cristie has kept his mouth shut. If and when Chris Cristie opens his mouth again, any numbers he has now will certainly go down.

Obama / Biden 2012

Thanks for playing and stop voting for your own posts, it's just, well, sad.

Finally, WCA speaks of things he is an expert at! lol

How many times have you been busted for doing just that?

I lost count after a dozen...

Oh Joe in Albany - nowhere does it compare Christie to President Obama. It just gives his ratings in his state - compared to no one in particular. I did, however, notice a full 4 in 10 think he's a bully! Go figure!

Joe,

Do you have any conception of how few registered Republicans there are in NJ? I think "Barry" as you like to call him will have no problem defeating your Mittens especially with lard-arse blabbering at the mouth.

White Collar Auto

Yeah, Kaybee, Pretty sure that doesn't count.

Thanks for playing and stop voting for your own posts, it's just, well, sad.

Pretty sure it does count, WCA. The camera is only supposed to add ten pounds, not two hundred.

I do not vote for my own posts. If you read my comments, you will see that many of them have not a single vote.

You are sad.

Does anyone outside of New Jersey give a hoot about Chris Cristie? No.

Maybe because Chris Cristie has kept his mouth shut.

AG, it's pathetic that the Whale Governor of Snookieland is considered an up-and-comer in his party, one of the best and brightest in the GOP.

He actually does open his mouth, but only to cram food in.

@kaybeetoys

He also has a reputation for spending too much of his work day at the feeding trough.

Fat people jokes, wow, way to elevate your position. Now we all know exactly how seriously we should take your comments. Thanks for clearing that up.

Joe Albany: State government is much different than federal government. Also, I wonder how his distortion of the cost of the tunnel and his funneling the earmarked bridge money into the transportation fund to avoid raising gas taxes will affect how people feel about him.

JAS1,

Not much better in Chicago: "Chicago homicides soar . . . "

Gang crime. Al and Jesse won't march there. Fear of getting shot perhaps?

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton make the living going into those places preaching against violence, drugs and gangs. Your comment is baseless and idiotic.

I saw Jesse speak and met with him in 1978 at David Star Jordan High School in Watts. Yeah that's right Watts! He and Al are not afraid to go where you wouldn't dare tread. I may not be a big fan of theirs but they are not afraid of the inner city communities that you seem to disparage with zeal.

btw I'm a white male so I have no axe grind here.

kay -- sometimes I wonder about why the folks on the tolerant left are so intolerant

Fat people jokes, wow, way to elevate your position. Now we all know exactly how seriously we should take your comments. Thanks for clearing that up.

Morbid obesity is no joke to me, Backcountry.

Christie is a walking heart attack who sets a terrible example for the people of his state. Why would it be any different if his addiction were to alcohol and he staggered around drunk?

I will not buy into political correctness. A spade is a spade.

kay -- sometimes I wonder about why the folks on the tolerant left are so intolerant.

I am not intolerant. I tolerate Christie's negativity and bullying as well as I can, within the confines of the law.

We still have free speech in the U.S., last time I checked.

Christie would never pass the physical to hold the highest office in the land.

There are very few people of whom I have ever said this in my life, but I loathe the man.

Its amazing how many time Feisty is the first commenter and as such is collapsed. Feisty, still waiting for you to add anything meaningful to any discussion on Newsvine. Will my hopes ever be answered? Probably not...

We all know to which side of the political equation the vast majority of "committed bachelorettes" like Hilary Rosen tend to fall.

Hi, I'm Bill from Fairfax Virginia. I believe everything the GOP and Fox News feeds me. I read studies from websites and organizations funded by conservative backers and make ridiculous claims about how hard the rich have it. I think poor people are making more money then ever before, the middle class are living on easy street, and the rich have it so hard. I don't believe that there is a record number of billionaires in the country. I don't believe that their average salaries have increased in astronomical proportions. I am so smart that I must have $200M in a hedge fund that nets 10% interest each year and I want to protect my $20M net investment income from paying anything over 15% a year in federal taxes...Or maybe I'm actually broke, spend all my time on the internet inflaming other people and being mad at the current president because my family and God told me to be conservative yet I haven't grasped how much better this country could be if the GOP would get their heads out of their a$$es and out of the 1950's.

"Ruken

State government is much different than national government.

National government has to deal with issues that never even cross a state government's mind"

Yea they actually have to pass a budget!!!

So I just need to go out and register as a Republican, and start trashing democrats and it will get blamed on Willard Mitt Romney. Sweeet !!!

@kaybeetoys

Morbid obesity is no joke to me, Backcountry.

Christie is a walking heart attack who sets a terrible example for the people of his state. Why would it be any different if his addiction were to alcohol and he staggered around drunk?

I will not buy into political correctness. A spade is a spade.

OMG you don't honestly expect anyone to buy your garbage do you? What a ridiculously lame excuse.

He actually does open his mouth, but only to cram food in.

That's your definition of "no joke to me"? There is a difference between rejecting politically correctness and just being a d-bag. Please don't pretend to be the former when everyone can easily see you're the later.

Ms. Rosen has chosen to excuse her ignorant comments by explaining that Ann Romney is out of touch with women and the issues we face everyday. What makes Ms. Rosen any more in touch with my daily struggles than Ann Romney? Yes, Ms. Rosen is a mother and has raised children, but has she ever had serious financial difficulties and struggles? I don't know the answer to that but I'm guessing not. What puts her in the position to judge that the Ann Romney can't relate to average women?

Kauman...

Possibly the fact that Ms. Rosen considers herself to be a liberal Democrat...that seems to be enough justification these days to level criticisms at anyone she chooses...even a another woman's personal choices.

I thought "freedom of choice" was supposed to be a mantra of women on the left side of the aisle ???

Staying at home and raising 5 kids is a job. Why has the White House attacked stay at home moms? It reeks of being an attack on traditional American values. I worked my union job for a lifetime so that my wife could be home for our children. I've voted Democratic every election since Adlai Stevenson, until 2012.

As usual MSNBC scrapes the bottom of the barrel to attempt to push it's political agenda:

"Romney held an event in Connecticut where he was surrounded by women, which essentially screamed: “I have a problem with female voters.”

At what point does MSNBC officially become designated as a tabloid?

OMG you don't honestly expect anyone to buy your garbage do you? What a ridiculously lame excuse. That's your definition of "no joke to me"? There is a difference between rejecting politically correctness and just being a d-bag. Please don't pretend to be the former when everyone can easily see you're the later.

Call me names if it helps you cope, Backcountry. I'm not easily offended. I clearly stated I loathe Mr. Christie.

My question is...why are you so offended on his behalf???

scott-579755

Staying at home and raising 5 kids is a job. Why has the White House attacked stay at home moms? It reeks of being an attack on traditional American values. I worked my union job for a lifetime so that my wife could be home for our children. I've voted Democratic every election since Adlai Stevenson, until 2012.

Wow. It didn't take long for you to twist a comment by Hilary Rosen--who has no affiliation with the Obama campaign-- to "why has the White House attacked stay at home moms?"

Have you forgotten that our First Lady, Michelle Obama, is a stay at home mom too?

I applaud MSNBC for not being fooled by a staged event. Romney is banking on a stupid public based on his own brainwashed brain and stepford wife. I think everyone in this country should work outside their home during their life if they are physically and mentally able. Take all the family money and put it in a place they cannot reach and see how well they succeed on their own. Learn how to be a real man and woman in the real world. And yes, I have three children and worked 90% of that time. They are all educated and successful in life and they accomplished goals because they knew what struggling to succeed was all about. I just feel like the Republicans have become zombies. Sad to watch.

Are you kidding? The White House is not attacking "stay at home moms". Show me that article or quote or where you got that premise. And to be honest I really doubt Ms Rommney had to do all that much at home without all their "help".

. . . or as a lobbyist?

Amen Kaybee! I really like Michelle Obama and I hope the girls really are coping well with all the politics and reporters around. It must be hard for them to grow up and hear all these things about their dad that may or may not be true (I'm just talking about first kids in general now). It must make you want to love him even more for having to put up with it all.

@kaybeetoys

Call me names if it helps you cope, Backcountry. I'm not easily offended. I clearly stated I loathe Mr. Christie.

I have no trouble "coping" with BS as I have shown. Perhaps you assume that because it is the way YOU cope with people you don't agree with, Gov. Christie for example. Please don't assume we are all as weak-minded as you.

My question is...why are you so offended on his behalf???

Who said I was offended? Since when does someone need to be offended to point out that someone else is acting like a child and should thus be taken as seriously as one?

For those rabid posters from the right......

Hilary Rosen is NOT a paid advisor to either the Obama Campaign, Obama Admionistration or the DNC.

As to what she said, I agree. The Romney campaign have so little in common with the working people of America, they cannot in truth relate to the difficulties of working men and women and raising families.

When you have the funds available that we all know the Romney's have and had at their disposal, that income that makes it so much easier to raise five boys or any number of children.

During the years Ann Romney was raising her kids, she had plenty of help that she could afford. Try doing that on an average income and even today it is much harder, as many of these parents are tied to jobs and responsibilities that today's technology makes their jobs 24/7.

Agree that families should be off limits in campaigns, but when women put themselves out there to help their husbands campaign, they are not going to get off scott free that goes for either side. And none on the right and sometimes on the left didn't give the Democrat spouses any free passes in 2008.

Hilary Rosen was correct ....Ann Romney has lived a very priviledged life. I'm certain she had all kinds of 'help' with the kids. She probably was a member of all the 'elite' female wings of private clubs!

Stick it to her Hilary!

I think it is clear that Rosen meant that Mrs Romney did not work a standard job in politics or business,...not that her work as a mother (and her work as a breast cancer survivor ??) is not worthy of respect. Focusing on this statement in this way is VERY clearly an attempt to control the narrative,...inappropriately and awkwardly so).

Pointing to the fact that she is breast cancer survivor and a mom of five is just attempting to fan the flames of division through association, pity and sympathy.

!) Yes, of course, we ALL love moms and the work they do to raise a family

and

2) No one is even remotely bashing her or undermining her for her health problems. How did THAT get in this discussion (obvious uunderhanded manipulation by the GOP)

The point is that she just may not be a seasoned business person or legal counsel for Mitt to turn to for advice. Mitt saying that he turned to her for advice on these matters is just his way of AGAIN trying to ingratiate himself with another group by feigning or self-servingly demonstrating empathy, interest and respect because he wants votes from,....in this case - women.

OBVIOUS. NO BRAINER.

Women are awesome, but that's not the point Rosen was making here,...it's the showy display for the purposes of swaying the female vote that is in question.

Willard is such a transparent sycophantic dork,...it needed to be pointed out, and THAT is what Rosen did.

The GOP are true spinmeisters. Anything to gain one point,...no matter how misrespresentative.

I may not be a NASCAR fan, but I know some of the owners,...who are women,...or the wives or the owners,...or just guys who revere feminine pulchritude,....and watch the View (please, please vote for me,... kiss,kiss,kiss,kiss,kiss)

So what Gingerbread? Rush Limbaugh is not a member of the Romney campaign yet you people use his calling that dingbat a few weeks ago a "slut" as evidence of the "War On Women" being waged by Romney. Limbaugh doesn't even work for the Republican Party.

C'mon Chilled. One could also say that Michelle O. had an overpaid "make-work" job that entailed zero responsibility for high pay that was given to her as a political favor to her husband. Both of these ladies worked, even though they did not have the typical hospital-executive or homemaker experience due to their wealth and connections. Rosen is out of line and you know it. The WH should remember the adage about glass houses and stones.

Damage,

Your wilful ignorance is quite impressive. I note with keen interest that you correctly identify similarly situated (i.e. very wealthy women) Democratic first women (or first women wannabes) like Kennedy and Kerry. Who you very conveniently overlooked was our current first lady, Michelle Obama. A working woman AND a mother. Very partisan on your part, but from the blither that tumbles out of your mouth/fingers I've come to expect nothing more.

As for your comparisons regarding the two genders within the White House, that's just another partisan hack job (something you no doubt relate to). Rather than comparing genders, how about you conduct an intellectually honest comparison of genders in the same job, doing the same work, having the same tenure, etc.? That wouldn't support your (or the author from whom you obvisly cut-and-pasted) biased point of view, so I don't expect a follow up post from you on that issue.

Finally, if there are any lawsuits from within the White House regarding unequal pay (something, again, that whoever you cut-and-pasted from noted there weren't any - but had to put in their story to suggest that possibly there were or could be some lawsuits), then the reason they'd be able to bring such lawsuits, is because of the Ledbetter Act. You remember, the one that Etch-A-Sketch Romney's actual campaign (unlike Hilary Rosen, who's not affiliated with President Obama's campaign in any way) had to 'get back' to the reporter from the Huffington Post, and then could only say 'that President Romney wouldn't overturn the Act'. Strong statement there huh? Don't get too far out on a limb on any issue. When the branch gets too thin it makes it difficult to do a 180-degree turn!

Finally, Hilary Rosen was absolutely accurate in her statement. Ann Romney, who is the mother of five boys and I'm sure had quite a hand in raising them, has never worked a day in her life. There are working women (meaning outside the home) and homemakers. That's not to say for a moment that a homemaker doesn't work (dear God they do!!) but that's not the label given to such hard work, and Rosen's statement remains 100% true. And all this is about the woman that thought "having to sell stock to get by in college" is struggling. Get a clue.

You can have your own opinion; that's your right. You can't have your own facts; that's just wrong.

@Damage123 No Rush works for the GOP Party as a whole. They kiss his ring every time they see or talk to him

“Ann Romney even started a Twitter account and said this: “I made a choice to stay home and raise five boys. Believe me, it was hard work.”

I'm sure it was. I saw what my mother did just to raise three kids. Of course, my mother didn't have the same range of choices available to her that Ann Romney did, which is why once we were all in school during the day, my mother made the choice to become a bank teller so she could help my father provide for us and save for us to go to college if we chose. And she still did all the same hard work that Ann Romney did on top of that, putting off her own dream of going to college until she was in her mid 40's and we were all grown and out of the house.

Like Ann Romney, my mother is also a breast cancer survivor. She was "lucky" in that it didn't hit her until she was 63, re-married and comfortable enough financially to be about to retire anyway, and lucky it was caught early. I, on the other hand, was just 45 when I was diagnosed. I was single, had no family living in the area at the time, and doing a bit better than just making ends meet, but I could not afford disability insurance, the company I worked for was pretty stingy about sick days, and I really needed that job, so I only took a couple of days off to recover from surgery and then spent six weeks driving 22 miles round trip from my job to the hospital every day on my lunch hour to get my radiation treatments and then staying later each night to make up the lost time. It helped a lot that I never really felt all that sick the whole time I was "battling" cancer, so I'm the first to admit that I was one of the lucky ones.

So if I - someone who didn't have Ann Romney's resources to fall back on - can admit that I was far more fortunate than millions of other women who have much harder circumctances to deal with, why can't the Romney campaign do the same thing?

I'm glad to hear Ann Romney is a fellow survivor. I just wish I thought the Romneys had even the slightest idea what MOST women with breast cancer and/or MS and/or five kids at home have to go through to survive too.

Hillary Rosen could have been more articulate in her statement for sure. And, in most cases, it pays to focus on the candidate and not their family.

That said, it is true that the experience of the Romney's has not been the same as the experience of many folks when it comes to work place and health care issues.

I have been a stay at home mom of two kids, so I can verify that raising kids is indeed hard work. I will not villify Mrs. Romney because her experience is different than mine . . . but I will also not sit back and listen to her, or her husband, substitute their experiences and world view for my own.

So we can have a long drawn out media kerfuffle about the comment, but the truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle.

Ann Romney is not the issue, the way the policies her husband is proposing will effect the rest of us is. And the truth is, when it comes to human people, Mitt just ain't offering very much.

That's Your Right: I can tell you're a sharp cookie. I agree with your call for an intellectually honest assessment of the gender pay-gap, and that there is likely no real issue concerning womens' pay in the WH. All I ask is for the same assessment from liberal pieces on the issue, which have become hopelessly muddied by questionable citations to median incomes as evidence for the non-existent gap. As to your support of Rosen's comments, I admire your hair-splitting, but I believe your argument fails because it equates Rosen's statement that Romney "never worked a day in her life" with the loaded phrase "working women," then your argument begs the question insofar as your premise assumes that the label "working women" applies only to paid-outside-of-the-home-work. I think we all agree - as you said - that homemaking is "hard work." According to Rosen's quote, she has never "worked." So, Rosen is wrong. And, I also believe that the label "working women" is not as clear as you suggest as to whether it includes paid work only or also or homemaking. But, the second point is really not necessary to counter your assertion. An admirable effort though.

@JoAnne in PA

Your post is moving and really spot on for the circumstances that face women who get the diagnosis of breast cancer.

Ann Romney is a survivor, but surely did not face any financial hardship or issues concerning the care of her children (what were their ages when she got the diagnosis), not one moment of debate on medical coverage.

She lives a gilded life in spite of medical concerns, whatever they are at this point.

I too am a survivor, we all are..........

Damage123:

You're right - Rush does not work for the Repub party. They work for him.

I was a working mother. It was a choice of living off the government or earning the living for my family. After my husband left, I worked. My children suffered from this. Who is home for them when they are sick? Who is there to watch them in their school programs? Who is there when there are problems at school....how about summer vacation from school? Unless you are paying someone else to raise your children, they are usually without supervision. Raising children is hard work and society is paying the price for families where this is not the priority.

Factcheck,

I truly wasn't trying to split hairs. There very well could be a definitional difference, where both points are valid. If (and it's an 'if' as I don't know which definition Rosen was using) Rosen meant that "working" meant being employed outside the home, her comment remains very valid. Taken in the context of the discussion, that of the Romney's being out of touch economically with a vast majority of the country, I chose to believe the "employment outside the home" and therefore thought her comment, although not well stated, was accurate.

As for the liberal pieces of the issue of pay inequality, I don't know to which articles you refer. I don't think it very controversial that there has historically been a pay differential between the genders and that this differential hasn't been completely rectified. If that is a point of controversy, I guess that would require additional research.

So if you don't work outside the home you don't know that the cost of everything is skyrocketing, that people are without jobs and that the economy is in trouble? Really? Are you saying people that don't work outside the home are stupid?

chilled - Thanks, though I've actually always been somewhat uncomfortable with the term "survivor", at least when it comes to breast cancer. My experience with it was a walk in the park compared to a lot of people's. Whatever your experience, though, I'm glad you're still here!

blearyeyed: "Rush does not work for the Repub party. They work for him."

That says it all! (***stands and applauds***)

I'm a Democrat, and I stayed home with my children until the youngest was in high school.

I thought that Ms. Rosen's comments were out of line. Yes, Mrs. Romney has lived a priveleged life, and as such, could make the choice to remain home with her children. Some women don't have that choice. However, that does not negate the fact that Ms. Rosen should never belittle any woman for choosing to stay home with her children.

Romney's wife is not a "stay at home wife" in the same sense or meaning that average people use that label. She doesn't stay at home because she made a choice that put her values over income paying a cost of one at the choice of the other. She's rich; very rich. She has no need to work at all unless she wants to and it wouldn't be for the income. Average people don't have two worker households because it would be fun to do or as an optional choice without regard for income. They need the money, which is something neither Romney or anyone close to him can relate to or comprehend.

Regardless of whether she stayed at home or worked at a job outside, she'd still be out of touch with 99.9% of the people.

factcheckero - what a STUPID and LYING comment about Michelle Obama. She did not work at a job given to her because of her husband. She earned her job and received a number of awards because of the outstanding job she did. You are a total moron!

I think the GOP had better be careful where they go with this.

Work inside the home, or work outside the home, moms work hard. But 99% have to deal with issues that Ann Romney does not, wondering where the money will come to pay the bills, whether they or their husband might lose their job, how they will pay for their kids college. Most do it without the help that this woman can get and has gott...en for the majority of her life. Then you have the moms who have illnesses similar to Ann Romney's and are afraid they will lose their pre-existing health coverage for themselves or their kids in the next few months - again something she never needs to worry about. In the meantime, Mitt Romney just campaigned with Scott Walker in WI who just last weekend rolled back the equal pay act for women.

There is in fact a war on women, but not from Republicans. Liberals bash all those they consider conservative women. Rosen is just the latest example. Not surprising that today all the liberals can do is try and justify her statement, rather then admit they have openly disenfranchised women for years if they did not share the same ideology. Hillary Rosen have visited the White House 36 times since Obama took office.

You have to love the race rant by Michelle Williams. What, no call for civility from Obama? Quite frankly Obama wants racial tension, he feels that will work for him in the upcoming election. Obama's class warfare, race warfare, partisan politics, are all starting to boiling over. Obama is destined to be remembered as the great divider.

Rick - yeah little Rickie - just keep telling yourself those lies. I'm sure that makes your stupid choice of a party better in your eyes. Try to make it that Obama is racist when we all know the hatred the right has spewed from day one about this very good President. The only great divider here is the GOP whose days are surely numbered.

wait a minute- no doubt Ann Romney has led a good life- but why should she be ashamed of falling in love with and marrying a man who is a good provider?

she is a lucky woman who raised 5 children- who appear to 5 good men- that is work and i admire her for doing it

to then turn around and Say that she is not qualified to advise him since she has not worked outside the home is a direct slap- is her opinion worth less? or possibly her brains have shrink by having children?

as long as women allow other people to malign them for their choices these are the kinds of arguments we will be having. the whole point of the women's rights movement was choice! Mrs Romney made her choice but that choice does not deprive her of her common sense and intellect.

Chilled, Ann Romney has had breast cancer and she has MS. That really sounds like such a privileged life. Yeah, stick it too her Hillary, put your liberal hypocrisy on the front page for all to see.

Attacking Ann Romney just goes to show what hypocrites the left are by doing what they accuse the other side of doing. Al Sharpton is a RACE BAITER purposly drumming up hatred between the races. The media has already convicted this LATINO in the Trevon case. Rep. West is correct. You guys are communists. Liberals used to get all bent out of shape for being called "socialists", but now you proudly embrace the name.

Communists, Socialists, Marxists.....Just people that think they should be able to have what is mine in the name of "fairness"

America will be destroyed if Obama is re-elected.....$16 Trillion in debt and counting....and you guys are too blind to see it.

Rick - you truly don't have a clue. Many women - too many to count - have had and are still fighting breast cancer with none of the advantages Ann Romney has. No one is belittling her. We are just saying she cannot relate to the average woman in the US who is raising children, sometimes fighting an illness, and having to work to make ends meet. There is really no comparison.

ToxicChemist - you truly are Toxic and stupid. The group whose actions are destroying this country is the GOP. The hatred and venom your group has spewed since day one of President Obama taking office is revolting but very telling. You have no integrity and no pride.

SeekingSanity: Please re-read my statement. I am not saying that Michelle O. did not work. All I am pointing out is that both ladies did not have typical experiences, either as a hospital executive or as a homemaker, and that both enjoyed advantages in their positions that the average bear does not benefit from. Don't let your partisanship blind you. Make an honest assessment. I am the farthest thing from a democrat, yet I freely admit that the WH gender pay differential (advanced by conservatives) is nonsense. As an aside, your personal attacks have the appearance of weakening your position. If you have an argument, make it. But we're all adults here. Act like one.

Women are not going to connect with the Romney campaign and they definitely aren't going to connect with his wife (nor the two Cadillacs in her garage). The GOP has offended and alienated women and pushed them into the arms of the Democrats, along with minorities, union workers, seniors, and moderates. The Republican Party will not be able to depend on the votes of any major voting bloc except the right wing lunatic fringe, a group that Rick exemplifies quite nicely.

President Obama in November! He is our only rational choice!

That's Your Right: Here is an example of a liberal article on gender pay (spaces inserted to avoid filter):

http:// bottomline.msnbc.msn. com/_news/2012/03/13/10603040-the-worst-paying-cities-for-women?

I'll concede that the definitional issue is the hang-up. So, we'll agree that Rosen's comment was inartfully stated to the point that Romney both did and did not ever work a day in her life, depending on who you ask. Such rhetoric, however, should be precise given the tinderbox that Obama lit with the contraception mandate and the so-called war or women. And, frankly, the WH shouldn't be hiding behind Rosen to further their front lines' advance. But, that's politics.

I enjoyed our discussion. We'll (or at least I) will call it a draw. Thanks for being a civil participant. Cheers.

I see the snot nosed little liberal brat SeekingSanity must have Internet privileges again. Spewing left wing hatred with your hand out and gimme gimme gimme. Justify your hatred of anyone for any reason, what a pathetic loser you and your incoherent ideology represent. Seems the real war on women actually comes from the women on the left.

Sailcat it must be such an ego boost to pretend your warped ideology actually connects with all women. Especially when your leader has such a gender pay discrepancy in the White House. Apparently all Obama has to do is spew, and a lush like you is taken hook line and sinker. Just keep telling yourself you speak for all women, I am sure a couple others here will agree.

Factcheck,

No reason to NOT be civil (several examples on here notwithstanding). I truly appreciate the differing points of view, and *gasp*, I might actually learn something if I listen, ACTUALLY listen to someone that holds an opinion that's different from mine. And that's different from (and this is NOT directed at you!!) reading something and all the while trying to find things that you disagree with.

Now to the link you posted. I'm having a bit of an issue getting my head around how an analysis by the Wall Street Journal, with very specific indications of how they conducted their research, is a "liberal" piece that distorts (not your word, to be fair) or exaggerates the pay disparity. If that information (or, again, the indication that such information exists when it actually doesn't) is contained in that article, my bias clearly prevented me from seeing it. After reading that article (while an MSNBC article, it was quoting the WSJ), it seemed to support the reality that there continues to be a gender pay gap in this country, that just happens to be more pronounced in certain industries and certain cities. If I misread, please clear away my confusion.

Best, TYR

Seeking, Thinking that America spending all that money that we don't have is OK doesn't sound like you have found your sanity. If you truly want to see venom, read Feisty's postings, they are truly full of hatred. But again, the left always accuse those on the other side of doing what they themselves are guilty.

I am not a republican, but an independent that can see that our country will be bankrupt if the current trajectory is continued.

BTW, calling another poster "stupid" solely on the basis of disagreeing with others point of view is a clearly violation of the vine's COH.

Don't you just love how the fringe right wingers who post on FR constantly cheer for the United States to fail?

So much for loyalty to country.

WCA: So funny. You come on every day salivating with delight over every negative report you can find.

That makes you disloyal to country, and you should have the grace to be ashamed.

Or the intelligence.

But, you don't.

Ah, heck, WCA: did I strike a nerve with you? Poor guy.

But, that is the usual with you, make a personal attack and then run for cover.

So boring.

WCA: Hey NDD, please explain how my posts are "Rooting for Failure"?

She can't. It's just another talking point the Left constantly recites.

The Left have a problem when their failures are pointed out. And when that happens, the hate spews from their lips like water from an Artesian well.

Poor JS! I really enjoy it when you are so incoherent you make a personal attack that has no relevance.

Do you ever get tired of looking so absurd and angry all the time?

And more from WCA, who has only childish taunts left in his arsenal. Perhaps a nice walk would help your mood.

WCA: Nah NDD, that wasn't a personal attack.

Everytime you disagree with ndd she takes it as a personal attack. Look at her responses, she gets all upset. There is no chance of having a reasonable or intelligent discussion with ndd. She is neither reasonable, or intelligent.

Still trying, are we poor JoAnna? Nah, I never get upset with you, why I read your comments to provide the comic relief to my day!

You are such a hoot, but you simply can't keep up with the discussion.

Which is what makes you SO funny.

JoAss1

Do you ever have anything nice to say?

Rod and newday - JAS really never has anything of value to say - ever! She just rants and rants with nothing to really communicate. I think she and Damage are related!

I do too, Seeking Sanity. I actually feel very sorry for poor JoAnna.

All Romney needs to do is open his mouth and we all know he's lying... The guy wouldn't know the truth if it hit him in the head... And they called Kerry a flip-flopper... For me, Romney is just too much of a phony... Weak! I don't care how many pairs of jeans he wears... Girlie kind of man...

White, Doesn't test lab mean they are "testing" something? Would you have us believe that they never have a test fail. If you have never failed, you have never tried to do anything.

With all of your inside information, do you think that the Cadillac plant they are building is for cars that are going to be sold outside this country?

Yeah, you're right, it would have just been better for our economy if GM and Chrysler just stopped building cars completely.

athiest - It would have meant a temporary dip in the economy as other manufactures ramped up production to handle their increased market share. Once the shift was made our auto industry would have been stronger and more competitve than ever and consumers would have benefited greatly instead of being stuck with lackluster, over-priced vehicles from failed companies.

That is how capitalism works.

Thinking an industry would collapse because 2 players fail is absurd. That is like beleiving the fast-food industry would collapse because McDonalds and Wendys fail.

pjam09 - are you delirious? It would NOT have meant a Temporary Dip in our economy!!! You clearly don't have a clue!

JoAnna: Neither reasonable NOR intelligent?

Atticus - TeeHee!

Terry....

"Girlie kind of man"....wow ! Your beloved Prince Obama has hands like a prom queen. "Girlie" kind of hands, in fact.

tony-268769 - Really? You're going to post that drivel? What a stupid, moronic, pathetic excuse for a post. And, that has anything to do with anything how? The jealousy of the far right is mind numbing to say the least. We have a smart, articulate, attractive President who is doing a good job and you make a stupid a** post like that? You are a buffoon! And, I'm sure your hands are busy but we won't discuss doing what!

A vote for Romney or any REPUBLICAN is like a vote for the rebirth of the KKK. Just look at the southern states. Civil Rights for all will end sooner than you think.