He's trying to pull back his chips. Sorry. Once you call "all in" you must play your hand.

Only republicans are capable of saying that you are lying when you quote them word for word. Remember the "social engineering" comment by Newt about the Ryan's plan? Same thing here. These guys lie every breath they take to the point of not knowing where the truth is anymore.

OMG...seriously?? It was Obama that created the wars that caused the deficit?? It was Obama who created the fall of the economy?? Seriously????????????????????

Hey, Santorum (AKA Frothy A$$ Juice)

Will you fight for my freedom to marry another man?

Will you fight for my wife's right to choose?

Will you fight for the rights of the poor?

Will you fight for the rights of religious people other than Christians?

Will you fight for the basic human rights of every man, woman, and child in the United States?

Didn't think so.

Go pound sand, boy.

At the GOP cannibal convention,

I do not believe they will have time to write a platform.

Santorum: "Oh, Lord! We just did what Romney did! We told the truth! It's like a bad rerun of, 'Liar-Liar!' Now what?"

Lee Atwater is, at this very moment, looking up from Hell, and saying, "Didn't I teach you idiots anything? NEVER tell the truth!"

Pretty funny.

Why does Jeezus keep rejecting Santorum?

Perhaps because he knows that Santorum speaks for a very small group of closed minded goobers?

Until Mister "inevitable candidate" actually reaches the 1144 delegates he needs for the nomination, he hasn't won and there is NO REASON for anyone else to drop out. Last count of delegates I saw showed that he didn't have 2/3 of what he needs. And on a vote count basis, more people are voting against Mitt Romney than are voting for him.

Mitt Romney also has a way of saying the wrong things, too often. Whether "he likes firing people" or doesn't worry about the very poor, he has been opening his mouth and issuing forth garbage which will not get him elected. If Mitt Romney keeps talking, he may just talk his way OUT of the nomination.

Furthermore, why would Mitt Romney want to make the Santorum supporters upset ? They represent about 20% of the Republican party. Nothing like going into the general election with 20% of your own party which will not vote for you and may decide to vote for the opposition.

Rick Santorum = Flip-Flopper in Training

Yesterday, after the Romney Etch-A-Sketch gaffe, I commented that the GOP/TP candidates might as well change their campaign platforms to "Vote Obama". I would never have thought Santorum would actually take me up on that challenge.

I see that both sides are involved in collapsing. Perhaps there needs to be a list of those doing the collapsing, along with the reasons they chose for collapsing the comments.

Such a dilemma if Romney wins the Republican nomination: Vote for the guy with no apparent soul, or the black man who will already have had four years' experience as commander-in-chief...

I just love to see republican a$$holes get in a pi$$ing contest. What kind of circus clowns are these folks if they think they're going to get elected.

Of course the deficit went up! You cannot 'spening-cut' your way out of the deepest recession since the great depression! Basic economics. You can cut when the economy is healthy, not when it is sitting on the cliff ready to go over. The GnOP got us there, and the POTUS has done everything he can to pull us back. The GnoP still wants the rich to get richer on the backs of the middle class, just as they have done for the last 40 years. It is time for the President to get some respect for what he has done, but the GNoP HAS no respect and can only TWIST and SPIN everything that has done good things for the poor working slobs of this country!!!

Santorum is an idiot and I an a Conservative Republican, enough said

Wow our political system is truly sick. To say you would vote for any republican over a democrat is SICK. OOO but Democrats are cut from the same sick cloth.

Hate to break it to you but both parties are the minority for a very good reason.

Freedom of choice than why must i pick a candidate? How come I can't vote no for a candidate?

Pick a party

The only thing missing on Santorum is a big red ball at the end of his nose.

Santorum is typical and the same type of mindlessness and thoughtlessness that characterizes the TEA PARTY.

• They'll take the frickin ship down just to get their way!!!!!!

I cannot wait for the day, and we all know it is on the horizon, when 1 of these Republican clowns, finally and somehow, gets the nomination and the rest of them all throw their support behind the candidate, and expect us to swallow the wad of crap, that they truly believe in this person and are behind them 110%.

Sounds like Mr. Santorum is turning HIS etch-a-sketch upside down and giving it a shake today.

Is this another restart Mr. Santorum? It's getting to be a habit.

Obama/Biden 2012

"The danger of Obama"? Really?

Have we ever seen a campaign as negative and divisive as this one?

Chicago skeptic

Madge, the National Debt (including money to pay for the wars) when Bush left office was $10.626 Trillion

you are under the impression that when Bush left the office he took the bills with him.

Do you realize that they continued to be paid AFTER Bush left???? Did the 2 unpaid wars stop?? NO. Did the interest on the borrowed money by Bush stop??? NO. Did the TARP that Bush sign off on (but onlly paid out partially) evaporate? NO.

Yes, Obama racked up debt but until you can prove to me it wasn't because he was left with a $hitty administration in January of 2009, STFU!

WHY???

Because Bush couldn't do it after Clinton handed him a balanced budged, small debt, low unemployment, and no wars. Bush took 8 years to bring this country to its knees but you will have these unreasonable expectations for Obama who got one of the crappiest deals in the modern history?

JoeB-460595

Only O'Bama, and the Democrats, would use the cruel death of a young man to "pander for votes".

WTF are you talking about? Do you people belong to a club where the #1 goal is to come up with the biggest piece of crap lie possible?????

Chicago skeptic

OMG...seriously?? It was Obama that created the wars that caused the deficit?? It was Obama who created the fall of the economy?? Seriously????????????????????

Madge, the National Debt (including money to pay for the wars) when Bush left office was $10.626 Trillion; the National Debt today is $15.566 Trillion. You can slice and dice and blame and deflect and juggle the figures all you want but the fact remains, the National Debt has INCREASED $4.939 Trillion since Obama took office. Is it entirely his fault? Apparently yes it is. By blaming Bush personally and exclusively for every ill that has befallen this country and every dollar of increased debt during his term of office, we have established precedent for blaming whoever happens to be President for whatever happens under his watch.

So your taking the stance "what everybody else does, I'll do too!"?? So much for intelligent conversation.

The bank baillout was started on the Bush watch ( and probably the smartest thing his administration ever did) saved us from 'the Great Depression - the Sequel, IMHO. But we will pay the price. At least by saving the economy we still have means to pay our debts, unlike some unfortunate European countries.

I prefer to examine 'facts' and claims, instead of blindly accepting.

Ricks real - How droll, you are praising obamas military leadership gained only by on the job training?

Not to mention that Bush started with a surplus, really, Obama has to clean up his mess and put the economy back on track. Bush destroyed the economy while he was in office, the US was shedding jobs big time during his years in office and he did nothing. His only interest was getting into Iraq to take revenge on those that attempted to take out his father. He used tax payer dollars to pay for his revenge. He lied to the American People and the world community. I am still waiting for charges for the war crimes he and his buddies committed. By the way where are all those biological weapons etc.?

it keeps getting funnier?

I can't remember the last time, if ever, that I have had so much sheer enjoyment watching the Republicans implode. It is getting beyond humor though , as I am beginning to feel that if they keep shooting themselves in the foot and then sticking them in their mouths they might actually pick up the "pity" vote.

What makes this so sweet is the memory of the crooked "W" theft of the 2000 popular vote and the 2004 Karl Rove "Swiftboat" campaign. It is truly a round world and what goes around comes around.

I dont' think the GOP has a prayer of recovering any power in the next 4 or 5 Presidential election cycles because of the reduction of their base by attrition and failure to attract new voters. So, if you are a Democrat, just sit back, eat your popcorn and watch the circus because there probably won't be a GOP in the next election and it will be interesting to see how the Tea Bag Party does as a self supporting enity. Too funny~who would'a thunk it?

bb-1100254

Not to mention that Bush started with a surplus, really

let's be fair, Bush never had an actual surplus - it would have been, had Bush left Clinton's policies in place. But we know that didn't happen. While he played clearing brush in TX for the 1st eight months of his presidency, he managed to spend whatever little cash was in the Treasury by sending out $600 checks and he aslo managed to ignore the national security tips that the CIA was warning him about.

But these clowns expect Obama to pull a miracle out of his a$$ in 3 and undo 8 years of of Bush's "hard" work. And all this while Obama had to deal with 2 wars that Bush started because his daddy couldn't.

Let them talk all they want. Polling and deep religious prejudices don't lie. Neither of them stand a chance in a general election.

american-2051576

Bayllie - Talking about "clubs", I see that FR is still the bastion of liberal/progressive club like organization creating its own brand of spin. How appropriate that you so accurately describe yourself and your fellow posters...

I'm sorry, was I the one who wrote:

Only O'Bama, and the Democrats, would use the cruel death of a young man to "pander for votes".

what cruel deaths of young man is Obama using to pander for votes?

Why don't you talk about Karl Rove who's latest "accomplishment" is taking Bill Clinton's statement from a clip and editing it to make Clinton look like he said something he didn't.

you want to talk about Romney's first anti-Obama commercial (oh, yes, forgot it was paid not by Romney but his Super Pac) where they edit Obama's speech to make it sound like he said something he really didn't? Obama was quoting McCain, yet the Republicans clipped his words to make their own version.

So before you lecture me, scrutinize to own YOUR leaders.

Chicago skeptic--

Macroeconomics; try it next time you're tempted to run your mouth on a topic about which you obviously know nothing.

rukidding47Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

If only we could erase the last three years.

If only a liberal had a clue we would not be in this mess.

If only

rukidding - You'r comment is an excellent example of what everyone is talking about. The story is about Republicans attacking other Republicans...then blaming the candidate they attacked for the attack. You've just done the same thing! You don't get to blame Democrats for your crappy candidates...in fact, your comment shows you deserve them!

"When your enemy digs his own grave...don't take away his shovel."

Romneys Grandfather had 4 wives, His Dad was born in Mexico that makes him a Mexican Citizen and I am not for sure Mittens was born in The United States, Where is his birth certificate? Mittens does not have the GNADS to stand-up to Iran or N Korea, He would not of made the call to get Bin Laden, He has NO SPINE and he is not even a US citizen

I am an independent that will likely vote for Obama but I do think this etch a sketch gaffe in the first place was not Romneys fault. Although a few very direct lies that were easily exposed has played into it but they all lie...Santorum used that error and it is doing what it should, backfire on him. If he is a true conservative why would he ever say a democrat is better than a republican?
Even if that republican has flip flopped quite a bit, he is still running a conservative platform.

I think they are killing each others chances and as the days go by it gets easier for Obama, not harder.

You have to remember, after all, that it's the Obama lovers living off government handouts who have the luxury of sitting at home writing posts while those who oppose Obama are working hard at their jobs in order to pay the taxes that support them.

Would that be good hardworking Republicans such as yourself...ROFLMAO!

BB - If I use your thinking that bush inherited a "surplus" and then caused the 2007-2008 recession. Then you have to admit that since the recession ended by july 2009 that bush also stopped the recession, after all, by your logic it took some time to create the recession, just as it would take some time to reverse it.

Want to blame bush2 for the recession, then you might as well blame obama for outspending any previous POTUS in his three years in office in what is essentially a peace time economy. Might as well also blame obama as well on the slow recovery, after all it did occur on his watch just like our credit rating .downgrade.

american-2051576

BB - If I use your thinking that bush inherited a "surplus" and then caused the 2007-2008 recession. Then you have to admit that since the recession ended by july 2009 that bush also stopped the recession, after all, by your logic it took some time to create the recession, just as it would take some time to reverse it.

Wow...NOW I understand why you support the GOP/TP! It's a matter of Orwellian logic.

except american, all of the things you just said are completely untrue. We have been at war with 2 countries, Bush by the way takes credit for the spending on those wars as he started them.

The credit downgrade? You do realize that it was the house that failed to get a bill that would pass through the senate to even get to Obama. Why is it that republicans think that Obama should have to do the house's job? Seriously you guys give Obama credit for more power than he has.

Bush initiated some of the bailouts that helped with the recession, Obama then proceeded to do more and between the two it has helped the turn around.

Saying we are at peacetime is a lie, saying that Obama caused the downgrade is a lie. Anyone who has 2 brain cells to ping together will see through these republican lies and this is why they will lose to Obama. Obama may not be great but what we have is a bunch of bad liars with bad economic plans coming from the republicans.

Bayllie - The topic at hand (aka my reply) was your "club" reference. Rather than trying to show your proclivity to use the strawman argument of deflection, why not defend/attack my observation of you and the "FR liberal/progressive club".

ol doc...

just based on macro economics and the premise that the potus is always typically blamed for what occurs on their watch, rightly or wrongly. Orwell has little to nothing to do with it.

Care to argue the fact that the obama administration in 4 years will have added more to our national debt than the bush2 administration did in 8 years? It is a straightforward simple yes or no question based on government fiscal data.

No excuses about inherited this or inherited that, perhaps in your mind it is that simple, but what previous POTUS blamed someone else? Heck tip oneil may have aggravated reagan, but they both got things done, just as clinton and gingrich, bush2 and pelosi did

ABCzyx

Really, Generalist? You obviously don't read Newsvine posts or any others very often. It's the Obama lovers who do the vast majority of collapsing.

This just in: Feisty is really a Republican lover because why would her post be collapsed since according to ABCzyx, ONLY the Obama lovers do the collapsing.

Rather than trying to show your proclivity to use the strawman argument of deflection, why not defend/attack my observation of you and the "FR liberal/progressive club".

you joined my argument so don't complain that I gave you more examples of the lies that the Republicans party is resorting to. Unless you can prove me that my examples are wrong, don't butt in with just insults like:

the bastion of liberal/progressive club like organization creating its own brand of spin. How appropriate that you so accurately describe yourself and your fellow posters...

now again, I asked the person to prove what he was talking about by saying that the O'Bama, and the Democrats, would use the cruel death of a young man to "pander for votes".

or that Karl Rove and Romney clipped videos to make the Demcrats say somethink they didn't.

Please, prove me wrong that IT DIDN"T happen because if it did, then these 3 examples belong to the #1 piece of crap lies. You can add Santorum to the "club" because now he claims that he never said that:

would be better to vote for Barack Obama than an Etch A Sketch Republican like Mitt Romney.

But you know, I will give you this one because he is really not denying he said that. He claims he would never vote for Obama over a Republican.

but that's like saying "you're fat" and then denying it by saying " I never said you eat too much."

why not defend/attack my observation of you

so what am I lying about then??? because now YOU are using the strawman argument of deflection

Peace time economy, on what planet have you lived on, we are still at war, yes I do blame Bush as the recession and jobs loss started with his policies. It takes more than four years to clean up the Republican mess of eight years. Takes alot harder work to return to a stable economy than to create one. Bush made sure of that with his spending spree and war monger mentality.

rukidding47

If only we could erase the last three years.

If only a liberal had a clue we would not be in this mess.

-------

One thing you have to give to the right wing insane clown posse running for the rethugli-con nomination credit for. They are a mirror image of those who vote for them.

If cons like ru had their way the mess we're in today would be infinitely worse. What is really sad is their complete lack of memory as to who got us into this mess---Iraq/Afghanistan, the financial collapse, etc. It really has to drive them up the wall when confronted with facts, facts like the economy has grown for almost three years now inspite of the best efforts of Mitch McConnell and John Boehner. ru---the American people have seen what the rethugli-con party is all about and the know it isn't about them. Maybe it's time folks like you wised up.

For ru and those like him, a dedication:

Picture this on a poster: A redneck standing on the left states: I vote republican to keep foreigners, women, minorities, socialists, gays and liberals from ruining my life. The business man on the right (holding a big bag of money) states: I vote republican to keep this moron, pointing to the redneck, from realizing I am the only one ruining his life.

OMG, how true.

BTW it is inaccurate to say that santorum is rolling back on his comments - he was recorded saying it again this afternoon - is is more like he is sharpening his use of the event.

DB, I watched the debt ceiling debate happen on Cspan, I reference numerous sites including Huffington and politico, I have never been on media matters that I can remember. However I do tend to take links and work my way through various sites.

The only thing that Obama could have done with the debt ceiling debate that might have averted the debt decrease was to employ the fourteenth amendment and override congress. First of all there is question that the credit decrease constitutes a national disaster and its rather vague in the amendment, Obama did not feel he had the constitutional right to override congress.

The Paul Ryan plan would not have gotten through a republican senate either, at least 6 republicans said they would not sign it. The house kept adding very extreme measures that even the senate republicans were not comfortable with. Why as a country should we be held hostage by the tea party when 70% of our nation does not agree with them? That was what they did, they held us hostage and at the last minute McConnell worked with Obama and virtually bypassed the house republicans with the exception of Boehner. That is what happened, I even watched the votes as they took place.

I am an independent and honestly it doesn't matter to me what you think I am, the fact is that the republicans have put up garbage for candidates. You can blame the tea party for that, none of the legitimate republicans wanted anything to do with being forced to cave to the complete stupidity of the tea party.

Now if you are what you watch, you are an ill informed Fox viewer. Because that is what Fox news turns out, study after study has shown them to turn out nothing but ill informed people.

@Chicago skeptic

Madge, the National Debt (including money to pay for the wars) when Bush left office was $10.626 Trillion; the National Debt today is $15.566 Trillion. You can slice and dice and blame and deflect and juggle the figures all you want but the fact remains, the National Debt has INCREASED $4.939 Trillion since Obama took office. Is it entirely his fault? Apparently yes it is.

Lets REALLY look at National Debt that you bring up...

From the Reagan years (fy 1981-1989), through the Bush 41 years (fy 1990-1993), 12 years total, the national debt increased basically from $0.9 trillion to 4.4 trillion...

Reagan's last budget submitted in 1988 would end in 1989 Bush's last budget submitted in 1992 would end in 1993 *-war time year

09/30/1993 4,411,488,883,139.38
09/30/1992 4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 3,665,303,351,697.03 *
09/28/1990 3,233,313,451,777.25 - Bush 1st Budget
09/29/1989 2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 1,823,103,000,000.00 (rounded)
09/30/1984 1,572,266,000,000.00 (rounded)
09/30/1983 1,377,210,000,000.00 (rounded)
09/30/1982 1,142,034,000,000.00 - Regan 1st Budget (rounded)
09/30/1981 997,855,000,000.00 (rounded)

Bill Clinton (fy 1994-2001) only increased the debt another $1.2 trillion over 8 years...

Clinton's last budget submitted in 2000 would end in 2001

09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 4,692,749,910,013.32 - Clinton 1st Budget

George W Bush (fy 2001-2009) increased the debt nearly $6 trillion of 8 years...

Bush's last budget submitted in 2008 would end in 2009 *-war time year

09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75 *
09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49 *
09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48 *
09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23 *
09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50 *
09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32 *
09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62 *
09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16 - Bush 1st Budget

Barrack Obama (fy 2010-2013)

09/30/2011 14,800,000,000,000.00 * (rounded)
09/30/2010 13,561,623,030,891.79 * - Obama 1st Budget

Before you throw out numbers, be sure to first state them factually and second be sure to critically think about them. Bush's last budget put the deficit at 11.9 trillion meaning he rose the deficit from 6.2 to 11.9, nearly doubling the deficit in 8 years and more than the previous 20 years combined! Sticking with your current number of $15.5 trillion looks like obama only raised the deficit $3.6 trillion and MUCH less than Bush. So if $4.939 trillion is blamable, I SURELY think 5.7 trillion is also!!

So Romney says, "Coroprations are people too." I'm still waiting to see Romney find the birth certificates for these corporations he has funding him!

Jan, Untrue, really??

I won't try to diminish our military or the civilian deaths in Iraq or afghanistan, but those conflicts are not the main drivers of our economy. Our economy is still driven to the tune of 70% by consumers buying personal items and services.

You surely aren't suggesting that an additional $150 billion for one year only would correct our economy, do you?

Just as bush2 and congress engaged us in the mid east, obama as potus/CnC could have gotten us out of there in 2009. Even, obama could have influenced the war funding as well once in office.

Obamas carrying on with mideast "business as usual" and putting more troops into afghanistan simply validated what bush2 did.

Golly, obama created a bipartisan debt commision in 2010 and then ignored it throughout 2011 and even after S&P warned us on the downgrade potential in april 2011. When did the senate submit an alternate budget to the house passed FY 2011 budget? Did the democrat controlled congress pass a budget for FY2010 or FY 2011? Both of which they were obligated to do? Make all the excuses you want but both houses of congress and the executive branch have the responsability to work together. Interesting on how you think that the house of representatives has all the power. If obama has so little power he should just resign effective january 2013.

BTW - As potus, it is up to obama to find the common ground between the houses, not walk away and telling biden to handle it. Also it is not the houses job to create a bill that the senate will just rubber stamp. The senate has the right to offer up their own version upon which both the senate and house can work out differences. You might want to review the job discription of the legislative and executive branches of the US federal government as layed out by the US constitution.

Kudos on your realizing that the economy is not like a light switch, to bad BB and others don't realize that as well.

Bad economic plans? Yes both sides leave a lot to be desired. Obama wanting to channel "trickle down economics" with a shotgun approach to spending and the right wannabees wanting to give tax cuts.

"Santorum definitely has a serious problem, this nut is a loser"

Bayllei - still can't focus on what is said can you? Now you want to edit comments trying to imply something not said. Please do carry on, even bev in chicago trys to make a point, even if it is not an original one.

I have to say ...........the posters on this site make me proud.

Baylie , Jan , Ol Doc , Big Jeff , Cavalier , American girl , Truth Seeker , Skip and all the rest of you come to this site with FACTS , a few snarkey comments , but always with the facts to back you up! Good job.

I love it , and I love how the Republicans eat their own.

KMC-289440

We eat Presidents too. Just to be curious, how did "BUtt GOO" try to retract statements with a shoe in his mouth.

By the way, I am not Republican, I am Independent, and if these boards are any indication, all Americans should throw both parties to the curb.

Chicago Daniel - A minor point but worth mentioning. You referenced our current debt ($15.5 trillion) not the estimated debt as of oct 1, 2013 in coming up with with obamas national debt contribution. Obamas current budget plan is estimated to add $1.2 trillion to our debt as of oct 1, 2013 and he was very optimistic on his revenue numbers and cuts.

Now we have obama adding $4.8 trillion to the national debt over 4 years to bush2 adding $5.7 trillion over 8 years, by your numbers.

Hey BigJeff! Well said! So many people do not understand that "equality for all" is fundamental right to each and every person. No person or group of people should have rights above and beyond another. "If you stand for one, then you must stand for all"

american, I honestly do see your point on Obama and his dealing with the economy. I just know that Obama met with the house leadership, and senate leadership and they walked out on him at times. McConnell and Boehner both said they were just going to do what it took to get him out of office and so I am inclined to believe they were never going to work with him until they were forced to so I do not blame Obama for that.

The reason that I will vote for Obama over Romney (or whatever other one) is that tax cuts and a war with Iran is worse than what Obama is dong now. I think we have to bring our troops home. I think they need to reasonably address tax revenue, saying across the board tax increases or decreases for the wealthy to me sounds bad. It sounds like they are not considering the differences with corporate tax versus personal tax versus capital gains. It sounds like they are not considering that the most vulnerable in business is small business and why not set small business at one low tax rate? I don't like the backroom buying out congress to get no tax status. Ultimately I don't think Obama has gotten it done but on the other hand what I am hearing from the republicans sounds like they are just taking trickle down economics and pushing it further with more tax breaks to the wealthy.

I don't think people consider that the tax breaks to the wealthy are more important in a time of economic instability than it is in a time of economic stability. I think that Bush ended up setting us up for more failure by taking away some of the cushion, and ultimately they couldn't increase those taxes.

I will say this this is becoming a socialism versus fascism discussion in America and neither are sustainable in the long term. They have to find a balance between corporate America and the middle class in particular. Our middle class is disappearing by the day and we cannot afford further tax breaks to the wealthy when they are the people who are not hurting.

Is it a good presidential attribute to have to "walk back" or retract a statement you made every other day? NOPE, it is not.

"Jan, You got that right"

Message to the Republican Party: When you live by the far right wing christian lunatic fringe, you die by the far right wing christian lunatic fringe. Read 'em and weep.

american-2051576

Bayllei - still can't focus on what is said can you? Now you want to edit comments trying to imply something not said.

still accusing me of lying yet you cannot point out what it is that I am lying about.

KMC-289440

Baylie , Jan , Ol Doc , Big Jeff , Cavalier , American girl , Truth Seeker , Skip and all the rest of you come to this site with FACTS , a few snarkey comments , but always with the facts to back you up! Good job.

Thank you for the kind words.

few snarkey comments

and that is why I am not allowed to talk politics at home or at work....

Jan - Thanks for your reasoned response. I am cynical towards any politician making any type of promise that makes little economic sense. IE, no revenue increases are just as lame as no meaningful spending cutbacks to pay down debt. Furthermore, the obama (bush) tax cuts should be allowed to expire across the board or at least phased out within two years. Politicians on either side of the aisle have a nasty habit of looking at increased revenue as a means of spending it on new projects. With a $15 trillion plus national debt we can no longer have that wanton disregard for how taxpayer money is spent.

As for the right wanting to see a republican POTUS rather than a democrat, so what? the same attitude exists on the left. If one wants to try the argument of it being intentionally done, it is still politics with regards to what the agenda is and each parties ideology.

If you listen to what obama is saying about the wealthy and corporations you will see that he is also promoting "trickle down economics". Reagans was based on it being voluntary, obamas is based on it being forced. The reality is that our economy is based on both trickle up and down with the consumer affecting 70% of the economy.

Since you expressed why you were for obama I will say this, obama campaigned on "hope and change" with a lazer focus on the economy, but failed to deliver a unifying message that could resonate with both congress and the populace. I can think of no POTUS who has denigrated one political party, businesses or wealthy in general as much as obama has. He still hasn't changed when he talks about fairness or balance.

Is ryan and the republican house really saying only the wealthy will get the tax cuts or is he addressing it across the board by broadening the base to cut taxes across the board? Regardless, the senate can choose to create their own budget proposal to counter the houses.

Nice reading your views and again thanks for the reasoned discussion.

Bayllie...

let's see, where in my posts (1.44, 1.57, 1.69) did I say you were a lier? I do see that you edited my comment by leaving out...

"Talking about "clubs", I see that FR is still ..." or replying to my observation of...

Bayllie - The topic at hand (aka my reply) was your "club" reference. Rather than trying to show your proclivity to use the strawman argument of deflection, why not defend/attack my observation of you and the "FR liberal/progressive club".

Your attempt at deflection was trying to bring up mit, rove or anyone else rather than directing your reply to your "club" reference you know...

WTF are you talking about? Do you people belong to a club where the #1 goal is to come up with the biggest piece of crap lie possible?????

your post 1.39, btw. Golly gee, I see you were the one talking about lies rather than me.

Since you also said...

So before you lecture me, scrutinize to own YOUR leaders

Why? I addressed my observations directly to your own comments regarding "clubs" and it was hardly a lecture. Are you now saying that FR liberal/progressive posters only tell the truth without spin or without comparisons based on ideological differences? You know, where you talk about "clubs" in your post 1.39.

How droll when you said that my wanting to get back to the original comment on "clubs" you call it a strawman deflection argument vis a vie (sp) your post saying...

so what am I lying about then??? because now YOU are using the strawman argument of deflection

BB - since you insist...

70% of our economy is consumer driven and therefore IT IS still a peacetime economy not a war economy. Even saying that the afghan and iraq wars cost us $150 billion/year that is still a small fraction of our overall yearly expenditures.

So bush2 is still to blame for the recession? I wonder where the democrats were during his tenure? How about all those who bought more house than they could afford or treated their homes like an ATM machine or maxed out their credit? How about the mortgage originators, banks along with fannie and freddy who approved the loans because they hadbacking of the federal government.

How about clinton doing away with glass- steagal, or the democrats insisting that bush make more home ownership available for minorities or marginally poor? Its all accesable on the net and in many cases from multiple sources.

It's all good right BB? By your logic obama can then be blamed for not maintaining a lazer focus on the economy as he went off the deep end on healthcare and ignoring the private sector with his ~$900 billion stimulus package in 2009. We can also blame obama on our credit downgrade as well and high fuel prices right? After all, he is the POTUS, the most powerful "leader" in the free world and these things happened on his watch. <end sarcasm to your viewpoint that it is all bush2's fault for the recession and that obama should be blameless for the slow recovery>

The GOP will do anything to win in November. Expect the party to find creative ways to cheat this year.

american-2051576

Your attempt at deflection was trying to bring up mit, rove or anyone else rather than directing your reply to your "club" reference you know...

Mitt, Rove, and anyone else that fabricates lies belongs to a group of people (aka club) that will come up with any piece of crap "information" even if it means clipping videos, and re-editing statements. And then some people willingly or out of ignorance, repeat this crap over and over and over. I cannot make this any easier for you so you can understand it.

I find this Republican primary really sad and desperate. There has always been a degree of negativity and misinformation, but this time around the Republicans (especially Mitt who set the bar high) are bringing it to the next level. And they are not doing it just to their opposition - they are doing it to each other.

We are watching the GOP implode as it dies. The party that can not govern, can not even agree on a candidate for President. I just hope the GOP does not take the country with it to the grave.

How about clinton doing away with glass- steagal,

The lies or should I say spin never stops.

http://losangeles.injuryboard.com/miscellaneous/the-subprime-mess-and-phil-gramm-an-experiment-in-deregulation.aspx

Certainly Clinton signed the bill but the bill was called the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act which was rammed through congress by Phil Gramm and two other Republicans. Now why didn't Clinton veto it??? Because it had enough votes to override a veto if Clinton chose to do so since Gramm and his banking buddies made it sound like such a wonderful thing to the rest in congress. But on top of that Senator Phil Gramm "clandestinely slipped a 262-page amendment into the omnibus appropriations bill ( a stimulus bill) titled: Commodity Futures Modernization Act" that probably few senators if any bothered to read. Well, read the rest of the story for yourself.

"I would never vote for Barack Obama over any Republican and to suggest otherwise is preposterous,” Santorum said.

"Preposterous"? Really? Didn't he say pretty much the exact opposite just the previous day?

No Rick, what's preposterous is you having said that you will never back-track, back-peddle, back-walk on anything you say during the campaign because you always say what you mean and mean what you say. That's preposterous.

Chicago Daniel Post 1.65 re: presidential budgets is dead-on brilliant! Thanks for sharing and for clarifying.

Poor Rick...

his feet must both be pruny by now with the number of times he keeps putting them both in his mouth.........

does he not think before he speaks...me thinks not....

ego.........what a tricky little bird...it can soar you to the heavens or dash you on the rocks................looks like the rocks for Rick.

Pride goeth before a fall..............man is gonna need a lot of bandaides...or and really good medical insurance and maybe unemployment insurance....don't worry Mr. Santorum....President Obama has you covered.

Shake harder, Rick, harder!

The comparison was shown on two large flat screen TV monitors, side-by-side, in the Electronics department of a local Wal-Mart. One TV's channel is on CNN, and the other is tuned to Fox News.

Fox News shows the GOP candidates waving a children's toy in the air to an audience of their supporters in private, indoor auditoriums in an attempt to sling mud at their opponents, while at the same time, CNN shows Obama explaining his national energy policies to a crowd of onlookers in an outdoor, public venue.

Given this simultaneous, brief, and albeit crude comparison ...who would you decide to vote for?

Modern Republican economics:

We'll send $600 to every middle class family in America once every three or four years, and we'll dole out over a $1,300,000 dollars to every WEALTHY family in America over the course of ten years, in perpetuity.

That way nobody will CARE that we have a budget deficit, and by the time someone complains, the Democrats will be in power and we'll use that fact as our ticket back in.

LOL. Succinct and true Ursula!

The old saying that "The trush will set you free" has an opposite yet equally truthful consequence: "The lies will imprison you".

The Republican party is imprisoned now under the weight of their "truths", and that's exactly why the party cannot continue to sustain itself. No amount of spin can make truth out of lies, especially when compounded one upon another upon another.

Most Republicans don't comprehend that they are being lied to from sources such as Fox News, which is why they continue to defend their positions, even in the face of obvious public outcry. This is a direct symptom of an ideological cancer which is ravishing the party.

One group cannot continue to write their own story based on ideology when the threads on which those truths are based, case after case, do not lead back to any verifiable data. Either the Republicans are being lied to, or they are the worst criminal investigators in the history of the world.

You can't lie your way to truth simply by calling a lie "the truth", and in the same respect you can't "fool all the people all the time", which is what the Republican party is trying to do, consciously or unconsciously.

Amen brother!

"The GOP is talking about kicking Santorum and his Retarded fiends out of the Party"

Excellent! Santorum has now defined himself as preposterous!

Patriotic American U.S.A.

"The GOP is talking about kicking Santorum and his Retarded fiends out of the Party"

The Republicans are good at talking. Not so good at governing.

Wow Ricky got taken out to the woodshed, and had his little rear smacked. Bad boy, your not sticking to the Rove playbook. Better run to confession because you have sinned against the alter of the GOP. Do over! Can I get a mulligan on that shot? LOL

hummbird --- i don't think there are any mulligans for "stinky" santorum this time.

That's the problem late in election cyles. All of the "spin statements" (known to the rest of the world as LIES) have been made. In order to keep the press interested, the candidates start to talk outside the preapproved talking points. Guess what happens, they start talking truth.

If Mitt Romney gets the nomination, he will be shifting so far to the left he'll make Barney Franks look like a conservative.

dirp01 -- great comment. gave me a chuckle.

dirp101 - You definitely hit on something. This whole Republican Nomination Circus has been great fun and most entertaining...but the best is yet to come. Regardless of who is nominated, that nominee will have to swing to the center to pick up independents. THAT'S GOING TO BE GREAT!!! Imagine Santorum walking back his birth control stance. Imagine the fun of watching Romney trying to identify with the middle-class. This is going to be pure Vaudeville!

"When is someone going to kick this Wacko out of the race" (Rickety Sanatorium)

Ol_Doc-

All that will do is prove to their bases that they are liars. And no one else believes them to begin with.

Santorum's followers believe that God talks through him. How do you reason with people like that? They're keeping him and his ego stroked, and are also keeping his mud-slinging religious-right campaign well-financed, so he can continue on with his race, and their race, to the bitter end.

jeezusismydog --- great post!

Oh you are soooooooooo WRONG! The American people are sick of Obama and his pals trashing The Constitution, our rights and Freedoms. They lie about a recovering economy. Food Banks are pressed with greater and greater numbers of people needing FOOD. Starving people are NOT indicative of improvement, neither are the rising gasoline prices, and how about FEMA denying aid to utterly destroyed areas in Illinois? Obama said Bush didn't do enough in New Orleans and under Obama, destroyed lives get NOTHING. Santorum is no surprise, he has been narcissistic since day one and he is no better qualified than Obama. Neither have the know how to be President. Electric bills are up across the country because of the Federal (that be Obama) Environmental Regulations. Obama must wake up wondering what horrible thing he can do to the country everyday of his life.

Clark--You should have purchased insurance in Harrisburg, Illinois. Have insurance on your property and you won't have to spend your time begging from others.

Clark

You need to do some research. It looks like you are placing Obama at the head of all problems. You need to realize that FEMA is under investigation and scrutiny for THEIR screw ups, not Obama. The rising gas prices are due to supply and demand factors, not Obama - he is not the one calling the shots on prices. You also need to keep in mind that Obama has suggested several ideas to Congress to get something going to improve the jobless rate and has met a lot of opposition by Rebulicans claiming that his solutions won't work but fail to come up with something better. Within the last few months that rate has begun to slowly drop to help ease those who are starving. Not everything is his fault. He is responsible for some of the problems we have, but blaming everything that is not under his responsibility is real stupid on your part and makes you very gullible for believing such. Why don't you try doing your research before spouting off. I don't support any one who is running for president, including Obama, but as of right now if I was forced to vote on someone, it would be Obama because he really is the lesser of all evils right now until someone decides to grow a pair.

What the difference of Clark who is probably a citizen of the U.S. asking for help or an illegal here sucking up every fricken government program offered. I am sick of lazy people taking and taking and taking until now there is very little to take, but the liberals will make sure they take care of them some how to ensure their votes.

Funny guys...I don't live near Illinois, and receive no subsidies from the Feds. Unlike you folks, I can read and do. Local Food Bank has gone from helping 20 people per week to now having 700 show up for very basic necessities. This is part of Obama's prosperity? You dance with the Clown and I do not find that surprising. Hilter used propaganda to sway the German people the same way you attempt to sway Americans. You lose, your tactics are evident to the far, too, many.

clark-3144812,

You either have a very short memory or are willfully ignorant of the situation this country was in on January 20, 2009.

As to the local food bank having to help 700 people versus the 20 they were helping before, that is what happens when the economy melts down. Unemployment rises when jobs are lost, homelessness rises when banks foreclose on homeowners.

And wrong, you receive subsidies from the fed just like everyone else in America, it's called a TAX BREAK.

As to Hitler and propaganda, why is it you Obama haters always resort to comparing him to Hitler; or resort to comparing Democrats to Hitler?

The only political group that has been pushing their propaganda for the past 3+ years has been the Republican/Tea Party.

Oh boy, another Hitler analogy. Just a sign that a republican has nothing of substance to add.

"This Loose Nut Santorum is the Best the Tea Retards got, hes spreading his disease on our Values"

Clark, your desperation is all too evident, you are so flustered you can not even write coherently. Desperation coupled with fear or rage has clouded your mind.

It does remind me of when Gingrich called Paul Ryan's budget plan "right-wing social engineering" and then screamed from the rooftops that anyone who quoted him on that was a liar.

LOL at all you rightards.

Obama is not the one proposing such things as trans-vaginal ultrasounds before you are allowed to access a perfectly legal procedure, or prove to anybody what the exact purpose is for your birth control prescription. Weakness was forgetting about Bin Laden "because I have not heard much from him lately" that was a republican president, Obama collected Bin Ladens head. You got the facts all twisted up with your talking points. You got the the truth all twisted up with the consequences.

Really bad move for Santorum to try to erase what he said. He should stick to what he said. At least it may show he has a bit more integrity than Romney. But even when Santorum tries to erase what he said, he's still just one Santorum. A Santorum who's not too good in lying.

On the contrary, Mitt Romney is never Mitt Romney. He has splitted himself into multiple contradicting personalities that confuse most republicans and even himself. I feel sorry for his supporters. Do they know which Mitt Romney they're voting for? I feel bad for the other GOP/TP candidates, they're not running against just one Mitt Romney, they're running against so many Mitt Romneys. To clarify things, I think the GOP voting booths should have a long list of Mitt Romneys as candidates, Mitt Romney 1 for nationalizing the RomneyCare, Mitt Romney 2 for against nationalizing the RomneyCare, etc. It's only fair to the republicans and the rest of the country to state which Mitt Romney they're voting for.

Ha you got a hell of a point there, Romney is a full slate all by himself.

Forrest Grump, sensible people certainly will not vote for any Mitt Romney, but his supporters should at least state clearly which Romney they're voting for? GOP/TP must implement this to avoid VOTER FRAUD! or else, none of the retardicans are not qualified to vote.

I agree an independent if there is not a clear indication of all the possible Mitts on the ballot it is akin to election fraud.

Food stamps really clark, my future and freedom in jeopardy really! Let me tell you something I lost $480,000 out of my portfolio in the last ten months of Bush, my future and freedom to retire was in real jeopardy right then. In the first ten months of Obama's term I gained all that back and more, my numbers don't lie to me, I'm not buying what you are selling, it simply don't add up.

So Clark, because of republicans crashing the economy, repubs take the respect from all other nations and put it at an all tiime low, the only freedom repubs want are freedom fries and the freedom to take away the rights of everyone else that is not their type of christian, your free enterprise means trash Soc Sec. and medicare, the post office and privatize them all to make the rich richer, you worry that Pres Obama who graduated at the top of his class at Harvard needs to show his report card....................you are such a small man Clark. You exibit penis envy of the president with every thought and word.

Santorum not only won't catch up but he will be the first of the four remaining candidates (besides Ron Paul) who will not win his own State. PA has not forgotten why they voted him out of office and he'll need an etch-a-sketch to get them to forget.

Out of the Heart the mouth speaks. Santorum spoke and we know where his heart is and it is not with Freedom or Conservatives. He now tries to blame it on other GOP candidates. That sounds like Obama blaming Bush for his own thousand failed policies. Obama wants illegals to vote in Texas and he'll spread that poison if allowed. You can't buy an airline ticket without a photo ID, so why should anyone be allowed to vote without one? Well, unless you're Obama and are after the illegal vote. Mean while, Santorum is damning his heart for giving up his true beliefs, he likes Obama. He just needs to switch Parties and be over it.

Clark

I have yet to hear Obama blame Bush by name for his failed policies. I know the Republican party has barred Obama from making any real change in Congress the last 4 years without coming up with any better ideas to fix things. I have never heard of Obama wanting illegals to vote nor have I heard him say he is pushing people to not have their IDs when they go vote (having IDs prevents voter fraud and thus heavily supported by all parties). You better start stating where you are getting your information because right now it sounds like you are trying to use the fear factor on like-minded, less educated people such as yourself. Start listing your sources for your information and maybe people will take you a little bit more seriously. But for now you are coming off as a fool who has their facts coming in via the tin foil hat you are wearing.

Intolerance is as Intolerance does

Satan-Santorum is openly mean and he scares the hell outta sane America

Poor, poor Ricky. Wasn't it just a couple weeks ago that he said he would stand by every word he had ever said? And then maybe a week ago boasting that, unlike Obama, he didn't need a teleprompter? Yup, poor, poor Ricky.

Well said.

they are all liars! Repubs AND Dems..so who do you vote for?

this is not a democracy and they now it..the choices are rigged!

you are just voting for more of the same!

If you are referring to "etch a sketch", Romney DID NOT make that statement and, in any case, its meaning and intent was chopped and distorted to serve Santorum's political goals. You need reminding that the single greatest response to those who may suggest that Romney is somehow not "trustworthy" is that Romney, alone among the candidates, Republican or Democrat, has the single greatest track record, both in and out of Government, of positions of trust. Whether in his family, his faith, his business, his volunteer efforts for the Olympics or his role as a Governor, Mitt Romney has served ably and well. And, we need that kind of stability and leadership at the helm of this nation.

truthandconsequence ---sounds like mittens should be on mt rushmore? do you really believe what you said?

As I've said a couple times before on different vines, Mittens wants to be POTUS not because he has visions and great plans for our country. He wants to be POTUS because he wants to be POTUS.

Family? Big deal, he's the dad in a Mormon family

Faith? Do a little research. It's crazy and I'm an Athiest.

Business? Do you know how many people he downsized (fired) while he made millions?

Volunteer efforts for the Olympics? He uses that ride every day. "I brought the Olympics to Utah!"

Governor? Well, you may have a point there. He was at least smart enough to have public option universal health coverage.

Stability and leadership? See all above comments.

We need a lot of downsizing in government, so Mitt is the man.

Aren't ya glad hot head Santorum has such a big mouth and tiny brain?

Haa haa haaaa I do believe Sanitorium just done himself in

Whatta moron......Stupidity rules in the house of Sanitorium

This reminds me of a movie quote "a brief moment of brilliance and then that mouth!..." (Ms. Congeniality).

What a snob!

No Songbird when Santorum says WE he means White Evangelicals. He hates anything that is not like him. He's just another sanctimonious fraud. People who really are humble before God don't shove it down others peoples throats. They just live it humbly. All these so called preachers that Santorum alines himself with the Benny Hinns, Pat Robertsons, Jerry Fallwells, Cleflo Dollars all make money off religion. You can't get much more despicable than that.

Santorums Anti-Woman rhetoric and inflamatory talk is no different than that of the Taliban

I feel sorry for his daughters

I am sure his older children are just dying to get out of the spotlight. The oldest ones are just counting the days when they can leave the Santorum Vatican and be on their own.

They all look the same except for the short chubby kid who is usually upfront during his speeches. He doesn't look anything like Rick. May be time for a DNA test Rick. Mrs. Santorum may have strayed.

If you want to make bundles of money there are two sure-fire industries: Religon and porn.

I think we all need to take lessons off the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Hell our President and his family did.

who's freedom? As a gay man, the Repubs won't be fighting for mine!

Willard was seen wagging his happy tail and howling at the moon last night

Now we know why

Finding a GOP candidate that didn't suck would mean finding one with a heart and a brain. That is an impossible combination in the GOP. If you've got a brain, you'll be heartless. If you've got a heart, you'll be brainless. That's the problem they face. They're either the 1% like Romney or they're the fools like Santorum and Gingrich. (Ron Paul is a libertarian, not a Republican. He is only running to get his points made).

Hanshotfirst - Yes he did, Corellian's are warmongers - just kidding.

A shame that there is not a reasonable, moderate running on the GOP side. You never know though, Obama ran as a liberal progressive and ended up promoting legislation and keeping Bush policies like he was a right of center GOP. I don't see that a supposedly, moderate Romney will surprise us all by presiding as a left of center progressive.

Obama still the best we got.

they want a return to the 60s alright...1260s!

BeauBenn............What was wrong wtih the sixties? You had JFK.....Lyndon B Johnson...Johnson started Vietnam..............

errrhhh...Wrong...Eisenhower sent advisers into VietNam in the 50's

Johnson started the conflict......Advisors were there long before. There is a big difference between advisors and combat troops.

According to Bernard Fall in "Hell in a Very Small Place," American pilots were dropping supplies to the beseiged French garrison at Dien Bien Phu in 1954 during the Eisenhower presidency - not an advisory act. That being said, what the h--- does this have to do with the 2012 election? Talk about off topic.