Feisty,

With all respect, I think you mean Gov. Kasich. btw Under him, Ohio passed a bill allowing conceal/carry in bars- as long as you don't drink. Seriously. You can't make this stuff up!

With all respect, I think you mean Gov. Kasich.

Bali Bob,

You are correct - thanks for the catch! ;o)

Ohio passed a bill allowing conceal/carry in bars- as long as you don't drink

How is this enforced? Especially if the weapon is concealed?

Nothing spells disaster like booze & bullets!

Feisty, so true. Even NRA members support reasonable gun laws especially regarding assault weapons and clip size. The Iowa GOP controlled house is trying to pass legislation that will eliminate all gun laws that exist, eliminate any restrictions, registration, taxes; allow guns in pubic places including schools, colleges, court houses; and allow criminals including murderers to own them. What kind of crazy is that?

Cannot help wondering if we will ever stop allowing the NRA, the most powerful lobby in this country, to control not just politicians but the electorate who can be so easily convinced that one party will take away all their guns even though many democrats enjoy hunting and gun collecting as well.

Even NRA members support reasonable gun laws especially regarding assault weapons and clip size.

Jody,

If Congress hadn't allowed the restrictions you mentioned to expire - Gabby Giffords might still be in Congress and those who were killed might still be with us...

It's senseless... simply... senseless...

when are the legislators quit allowing the NRA to terrorize them?

And who's dispicable administration is responsible to giving 2,500 assault rifles to Mexican drug cartels that have caused 100s of deaths - all in an effort to "terrorize" enough people to force gun law changes?

Over 70% of this country is in FAVOR of some kind of reasonable gun laws!

Of course ... like the right to own guns, concealed carry, the right to defend themselves, their homes and families, etc.

Btw - what kind of gun laws does Chicago have .... how they doing on the murder rate?

@Feisty,

Of course enforcement will occur after the fact. I've heard of no incidents... yet. Establishment owners do have the option to not allow guns. btw I'm from NE Ohio, and can tell you that Chardon (where the High School shootings happened) is a Right-wing paradise. Dubya has a friend there- that's where he would stay when he came to town.

"Over 70% of this country is in FAVOR of some kind of reasonable gun laws!"

Yeah in 1959.................."in 1959 some 70% of the American public favored handgun bans, whereas today that number has flipped."

The best part is the RKBA. Google RKBA Daily Kos

Right to Keep and Bear Arms-Daily Kos

bob-1805084 - Why do some idiots always have to bring Chicago up. Actually, our murder rate is down, thank you! And, luckily, we have not had school shootings and I hope we never do. I hope, actually, there is never another school shooting. I doubt I'll get my wish but I can hope. But, to those idiots who need to bring Chicago up, maybe you should look at your own cities. We've cracked down on crime and are seeing results, thank you! But for the morons who just love to trash the city, they have NO clue!

"btw I'm from NE Ohio, and can tell you that Chardon (where the High School shootings happened) is a Right-wing paradise"

LOL, really? So this is to blame for the shooting? Detroit is a Liberal Mecca, how many shootings there? But I'm thinking if you have stricter gun laws, the criminals will obay those laws and there will be no crime. Heck, ban all guns!!

Google Right to keep and bear arms by the Daily Kos. It's Liberal and gives some stats. It's a good read.

Seeking sanity,

So you guys don't have the highest youth homicide rate rate in the nation anymore ... where is your ranking?

We're not spending one cent. That is not us -- completely, unequivocally not us."

Man, talk about pushing the endorsement envelope.

From factcheck.org:

"

A National Rifle Association advertising campaign distorts Obama's position on gun control beyond recognition.

The NRA is circulating printed material and running TV ads making unsubstantiated claims that Obama plans to ban use of firearms for home defense, ban possession and manufacture of handguns, close 90 percent of gun shops and ban hunting ammunition.

Much of what the NRA passes off as Obama's "10 Point Plan to 'Change' the Second Amendment" is actually contrary to what he has said throughout his campaign: that he "respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms" and "will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use guns."

Rated as "False: Obama is proposing no such ban."

The sole and only gun legislation introduced during Obama's presidency now allows firearms in National Parks, effective Feb., 2010.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/b/2010/02/19/new-gun-rules-in-wildlife-refuges.htm

I own firearms and hunt. Why are the NRA and Santorum foaming at the mouth about gun rights??

JH, you forgot Bush's program that had the same kind of problems. It's really a two party thing. Nice try.

I dont think the gun system is broke, so why fix it. I have the right to bear arms with my concealed weapons permit, to protect me and my family. You may not live in a high crime area, but millions of us do, and i'm not leaving this world because somewants everything i have. I went through Vietnam for a year, and i believed i earned the right to protect myself. the NRA is the best thing for gun owners.

It was called "Operation Wide Reciever" and started in 2006. Two indictments were filed and became unsealed in 2010.

Earlier ATF gun operation ‘Wide Receiver’ used same tactics as ‘Fast and Furious’

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/earlier-atf-gun-operation-wide-receiver-used-same-tactics-as-fast-and-furious/2011/10/06/gIQAuRHIRL_story.html

Republicans trying to "down" Obama, need to look in a mirror.

This was no-doubt funded by one of those cute little PACs that have no coordination with anyone, have no reporting requirements, and can say whatever their little heart desires within the confines of free speech...

See how this works?

Whether you're for gun control or not and whether you're for Romney or not, you have to admit that this crosses so many lines of ethics that is makes one's stomach churn.

All legal. Buttoned up. Nice and neat. No bloody hands... nothing. One big lie. One false endorsement. The wrong candidate wins. But who cares? It's just... politics?

@Eric

Operation Wide Receiver wasn't a "gun walking" Operation like F&F was.

If you read the info on the Operation, it was coordinated with Mexican authorities, so the guns were NEVER going to be out of the eye of some law enforcement group.

After a couple times the weapons got lost by the Mexican authorities the Operation was CANCELED, because they knew it was BAD to let those weapons escape to the cartels.

Then, Operation Fast and Furious was created to do exactly what got wide receiver canceled.

F&F never coordinated with Mexico and actually intended on the weapons getting to the Cartels.

They are like Night and Day different.

Exactly Marc,

That is the point of the article. This is really about super pacs and how easy it is for a candidate to put a message out there and then deny he had anything to do with it. Sure, super pacs deny the candidate any right to collaborate with those making ads on their behalf, but who really believes that they don't? How long will it be before there is a scandal involving a super pac and collaboration with a presidential candidate or even a president? This law will bring on the next Watergate. This ridiculous ruling from the SCOTUS cannot stand. It is messing with our democracy.

Eric - you are either misinformed or a liar. Or both.

Obama is doing a fine job of downing himself. Chicago thug politics don't fly on a national level.

The gun law debate aside, did we all miss the point of the article? Santorum is at it again. Twisting the story to manipulate the electorate. He's at his best when he's lying and revving up his base, the brainless sheeple who love him.

@Maxwell, "More specifically, Schmaler said that when the e-mails mention “guns walking,” they are referring to the 2006-07 Tucson case, Operation Wide Receiver. Schmaler said neither of the officials knew about guns walking in the Fast and Furious case.

Seems like they walked on Wide Receiver as well.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/earlier-atf-gun-operation-wide-receiver-used-same-tactics-as-fast-and-furious/2011/10/06/gIQAuRHIRL_story.html

@JH, did you see the new electoral map today. http://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-daily-rundown/46541132/#46541132

Seems like I'm pretty informed. It seems as though Obama politics continue to trump GOP politics.

For a candidate who touts his Catholicism, do you think the Catholic Church supports guns for everyone?

Santorum is a hypocrite.

Maxwell and other wing nuts on here.... You guys act like the only killings that have happened recently were ALL caused by the Fast and Furious program. Your conspiracy theory it was all to promote gun control is ludicrus. Abslutely. Did it fail? Hell yes. Typical of some govt plans on both sides of the isle. I think you can tie ONE murder to a US citizen from these guns. Rest are nationals. Do you honestly think those criminals wouldn't have killed had they not gotten the US guns???? Really????

@WIVES FAN

No conspiracy. Just a poorly designed program that should have and could have been stopped by any number of levels of the chain of command BEFORE any BP agents were killed. And now everyone is trying to wash their hands of it and pretend like they didn't know about it, or it was authorized by a level higher than them, and yet NO ONE has lost their job over this OBVIOUSLY bad idea.

And if your argument is that the criminals would have been armed ANYWAY...well then that is a pretty good argument that GUN LAWS DON'T WORK. Criminals ignore laws.

@ERIC

Yes they "walked" guns out of the US, but they were NEVER supposed to be loose. The Mexican authorities were supposed to take over the following of the guns and once the destination was identified, they were going to raid the place.

When that plan failed the entire program was scrapped.

F&F was intentionally letting the cartels get guns in the hopes of recovering the weapons at crime scenes in the future, and the ONLY reason it has been stopped is because it led to a Border Patrol agents death and it became exposed in the media, and thus political suicide to continue.

Yeah you GOP nut jobs miss the point. Guns in the hands of criminals, nut jobs, people who have been bullied, racist and anyone who is hateful enough to pull the trigger - Should not carry a weapon period.

@Maxwell, your facts are not facts.

Here is the politifact on the death of the patrol agent. There is no evidence he was shot by a F&F weapon at all. If you've gone to my links, it really doesn't matter much as guns walked in both cases.

http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2012/jan/08/david-dewhurst/texas-lt-gov-david-dewhurst-says-ballistics-tests-/

From media matters: "This morning, the Democratic staff of the House Oversight Committee released a report finding that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives' (ATF) failed Operation Fast and Furious was initiated by the ATF's Phoenix Field Division as part of a strategy dating back to the Bush administration, and that there is no evidence that senior officials in the Obama Department of Justice authorized gunwalking in that case."

http://politicalcorrection.org/blog/201201310006

I could do this allllllll day.

It's also interesting that Issa doesn't want ATF chief Melson to testify. Perhaps he already knows that Holder and Obama aren't linked.

http://politicalcorrection.org/blog/201202010008

Feisty stop

over 70% lol

NOT

criminals will always get guns and can give a crap about gun laws.

last nationwide Gallup poll shows 70% of Americans want to enforce current laws more vigorously.

73% feel we should not ban guns in this country 8) & 73% believe 2nd amendment guarantees the rights of Americans to own guns 8)

We as Americans 73% embrace our founding fathers beliefs 8)

@ERIC

There were F&F weapons recovered from the crime scene. The F&F weapons were a part of it, and the ballistics checks (According to YOUR LINK) could not conclusively match the bullet to ANY gun. Sometimes bullets are too damaged to match to a gun. Bottom line, they don't know if a F&F weapon fired the fatal shot or not...so don't pretend as though there is any evidence to claim it didn't. But F&F weapons were a part of the crime.

You can copy and paste from BLOGs all you want, but those are just BLOGs...and that doesn't change the fact that there is a HUGE difference between intentionally watching guns cross into Mexico, knowing they are now the property of the cartels (as in F&F) and watching weapons intentionally cross into Mexico, knowing the Mexican authorities are sitting over there watching the weapons enter their country, and planning to never let those weapons out of their sight (like Wide Reciever).

And if you want to site a BLOG as a "source" (even though opinion pieces are NEVER sources)...you should choose one that isn't so obviously left wing. Here's a hint...if it advertises that it is a part of the Media Matters family, it isn't neutral.

Feisty- do you know what really went on during your Brady bill years? A small group of people made a WHOLE bunch of money. I don't have all day nor does anyone else. I will focus on the amount-size of the magazine or clips depending on your choice of terminology. Manufacturers were given X amount of time to fill warehouse after warehouse full to the rafters. If they were made before such and such a date they could still be sold. Then when they were down to about a half billion they sold magazine parts, springs, followers and magazine halves- build your own. All you people that want to ban guns are just what the money boys WANT. Guns are here to stay, you would not have your first amendment rights if we were not here to back your liberal gibberish up. Peace, out.

Big Al

Gun control is a very different thing than a total firearms ban, but let's take Chicago with 435 firearms murders in 2010, and compare it with a city with a total ban of a similar size - London, with 29 firearms deaths in the same year.

I'm not advocating one way or the other, but to argue that a gun ban doesn't result in fewer firearms murders is simply facile. The data doesn't support it.

Sensible gun control does not infringe anyone's 2nd amendment rights.

The results were inconclusive.

The report, dated Dec. 23, 2010, says that the bullet that killed Terry could have been fired from the kind of guns that were found at the scene but that "firearms examinations" could not determine if the bullet came from either of the found weapons.

Issa's spokeperson:

"The ballistics report for the guns recovered at Agent Terry's crime scene do not rule out the Operation Fast and Furious guns as the weapon in his death,"

Eric states:

There is no evidence he was shot by a F&F weapon at all.

That's a huge difference from "no evidence he was shot by a F&F weapon at all". The fact that F&F weapons were found at the scene to begin with should be enough to cause serious concern.

Santorum was with Cheney for a hunting trip in Ligonier PA a few years ago .. they were hunting pheasant ..sounds harmeless .. not to the pheasants that didnt get shot .. those pheasants like all privately stocked game birds... had there beaks riveted shut ..so if they survived the hunt they would starve to death .. the hunt providers do this to the stocked pheasants ..so there will be none in the wild to breed .. the hunt providers that release their stocked pheasants for the great hunters pleasure (it certainly isnt sport) dont want any competition from mother nature .. Santorum talking about values what a joke

Chicago and California are both very strict when it comes to gun control and guess what both have lots of gun related violence 8( both places have lot's of criminals who do not care about sensible gun control laws..

Sensible is a word California and Chicago have no clue about.

We have over the top restrictions in place and it only effects citizens who abide by the laws.

I reside in California and they will not issue CCW except to elites or people of substantial wealth, power and connections (Breeds Corruption) OC sheriff gave out CCW's to his buddies and others who helped him in some way..

Maxwell's "it was coordinated with Mexican authorities" Ha Ha Ha....an oxymoron if I ever heard one....who do you think is running the Drug Cartels????? Bad policy on both fronts Bush & Obama administrations....but great for the gun manufacturing industry. Now go back and look at who in Congress pushed for it, who lobbied for it, who got golf trips for adding the funding for it to some insignificant bill, then go read Jack Ambroff's book Capital Punishment and find out who is really running America in to the ground.

@YANK

big accusations (or should I say fantasies). Too bad you'll never be able to back them up.

No one in congress pushed or lobbied for either "wide reciever" OR "Fast and Furious". It wasn't a Congressional program, it was an ATF program (which is part of the DOJ, under the executive branch).

You are just throwing out empty praddle for the sake of fooling the uninformed into believing your wild conspiracy theories.

Conspiracy.....who said conspiracy.....lobbying is a fact and funding is a Congressional Responsibility both programs were funded by Congress someone on some subcomittee somewhere approved the funding to purchase the weapons ..... DOJ does not have their own bank account.

You believe what you want and I don't need to fool the uninformed, you are proof positive of that!

Independent Jim....off topic but since you brought it up do have first hand knowledge of this riveting of beaks, or a reliable independent source to back that up. I suspect this would be considered cruelty and difficult to accomplish, if it is done I would not expect it to be widespread in the industry. However I do agree that the slaughter of released birds is hardly sport or hunting.

I would consider hunt with Dick Cheney to be a high risk sport not sure my insurance would cover that.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL Not true. Guns and religion is far more dangerous than guns and liquor ! Gun nuts and religious nuts, often the same crowd.

I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that the Obama/Holder program was specifically targeted to make people really believe that all the guns were coming from the US so they could enforce more gun laws.

JH - How's your tin foil supply...must be running low after this one.

Gun control has been around for years .. in the old west most towns made the citizens and visitors check their guns before entering town limits .. Gun Control is not a new issue .. has any democrat introduced any bill to take law abiding citizens guns from them ..Of course not .. this lie about the dems wanting to take your gun is the only reason the NRA has a following

Yank I have seen these birds first hand and it is common place .. some big game ranches keep the "Game" tied until the "Sportsman" can get a shot

It's sickeningly ironic how the NRA would support a candidate in a democratic election... While their primary activity is to usurp the democratic process at every possible turn.

@YANK

Congress doesn't approve every operation the ATF does. The ATF gets an annual budget, and they spend their money as they see fit.

This is WHY Congress is running an investigation into the F&F Op...that they JUST found out about...

If Congress had voted to approve it, they would themselves be investigated as being a part of it.

The "conspiracy" I alluded to is your belief that there is a big group of people all having worked to put the F&F Op into motion for their own benefit.

Bottom line...ATF thought it up, and DOJ (at a yet unknown level) authorized it. ATF used their operating funds to fund it, and Congress never knew it existed until after Agent Terry was murdered.

People keep trying to claim Obama has a program to ban guns- the guns dealers made a bundle off that claim- but it is a lie and has always been a lie. As the Senator in Illinois, the Senator from Illinois and now as the President of the United States, Barack Obama has regularly and consistently stated and restated he supports the 2nd Amendment and the Constitutional rights it gives for Americans to keep and bear arms. There has been absolutely no attempt to change that fact while he was a state Senator, as a US Senator or now. None. Hasn't happened. Isn't going to happen. Any of those who try to make claims to the contrary are lying. The NRA is lying. The gun dealers were/are lying. Candidates for any office that try to make that claim are lying. Not happening and if you vote for someone who makes such claims, you are voting for a liar. If you are so easily led by the nose by liars- you deserve what you get. The rest of us don't. And I have been shooting since I was a kid, I have hunted and I am a gun owner. The only thing I am worried about is the nut jobs who claim they have to "take the country back, even with force if necessary". So I will certainly keep my guns and ammunition in case some of those nut jobs make it necessary to defend myself, my property or my government. Any person or group who tries to overthrow the government will not be carrying out the will of the majority and they will be committing criminal and seditious acts. I would hope that it would never happen, but I can't be sure any more after reading and hearing some of the comments from some people out there.

Maxwell's ..... I got a nice bridge for sale...you interested?

"As a member of the NRA, I don't support Santorum because he is a idiot and a loose Cannon"

Only Girls Should Use Guns...

If you are too lazy, unfair and unethical to learn how to do what the gun can do for you then don't kill!!!!!!

Especially in hunting mainly.
Go get you a bow and arrow or something.
Having a gun really shows no skill and is unfair to an opponent without one.
This includes animals or humans.

Guns and other powerful weapons should only be used when your opponent is too Girly to compete like a man!!!!!!

I'm conservative with this position.

An earnest question to the NRA fans who were worried that Obama was going to come and take all your guns. How are things goin' for ya? What changes has Obama actually made in gun laws? How many of your stockpiled weapons do you actually have left? I imagine they must be mostly gone by now, if things were as bad as you said they were gonna get,...

I live in NYS. We have pretty restrictive HANDGUN ownership laws in this state, yet people are still shot by handguns. Should we blame NY, no. In NY a permit is required to own a handgun. The permitting process is fairly difficult.You receive an extensive background check. After you application is reviewed you may be issued a permit application by a seated judge. You then apply for the permit and for permission to purchase a handgun. The hangun is registered in your name and to that permit, this allows for better monitoring of this handgun. This process is difficult and it should be. If all other states made it as difficult to acquire a handgun as NY there would be a lot less of them around. To say that restrictive handgun laws are useless is wrong. The problem lies in the states that allow easy access to handguns. Allowing individuals to buy multiple guns without monitoring of the guns whereabouts in the days following the purchase. A number of those guns end up NY. PA, DC. Is it asking too much to be able to exercise a little more control on these purchases. An individual buying multiple guns of the same caliber, purchasing many guns in a short period of time. Those things should throw up a red flag. With a permitting process there would be an ability to monitor this kind of activity. please don't hit me with that old canard, they can easily search the records and know who has guns (that is when THEY come for them)

@5guide

You don't need to make a complicated and costly process involving judge issued permit applications to track weapons. All that does it make most people give up trying to buy what they want....but then I guess that is the goal of some people on the left. If we make it difficult enough, no one will buy them, and you'll get a de-facto gun ban in your city.

Of course the harder you make it to aquire legally, the more inviting the black market becomes, and of course those are not tracked at all.

What a "pathetic, ignorant, bigoted" comment to make.

How old are you?

Just another "I'll say anything for a vote" In-Sanetorem.

@jody - Im going to have to see proof that they are trying to pass gun laws that would allow you to carry in schools and courthouses. Not some HR or a bill that will never pass committee and is an obvious ploy to pander votes.

I live in Iowa too. We have wingnuts. We are also generally reasonable, provided newt doesn't fund an effort to oust judges. Never can tell. They re-elected Governor Braindead, after all. Not me. I remember the first time around.

And for the record, I have a license to carry. You'd never know it, would you? I'm one of those crazy moderate liberals. I could be sitting next to you in a bar; you wouldn't know it. I could be in a eatery;wouldn't know. Hockey game; wouldn't know. If I'm standing next to you and someone tries to kill you or rape you, I promise, you'll know.

Orthosophy -

I live in Arizona, (different laws, no permits required) but I do generally agree with your statement.

I joined the NRA at 12 years old, I left in my mid 30s, 30+ years ago when it became apparent to me that the NRA had become more focused on perpetuating the NRA and the RNC, than on the best interest's of gun owners .

The most significant part of this story to me is the quote from NRA/ILA Director, Andrew Arulanandam

Our position is anyone would be better than Barack Obama

Anyone, really ? We don't yet know who the Republican candidate will be, and the possibility that none of the present field of contenders will make it is very real.

So I am left with the distinct impression that the NRA's official endorsement of, "any Republican", irregardless of his/her/it's positions on gun rights, is completely partisan, and in fact, an admission that the present day NRA is not much more than a branch of the Republican Party.

"If anyone is ant-gum its Santorum, this guy is beyond a Phony" I'm an member of NRA and l don't agree with them, the NRA endorsement is bull$hit and they will lose members if they keep this trash up. NRA - Your support for Santorum is drawing flies and I'm mad about you supporting a dirtbag like Rick.

Dirty mud slinging Ricky try to sneak this through. Hey Ricky, why are thou so desperate?

Nothing like a well armed, gun toting religious zealot......... (rolls eyes)

Not all of us, Eric.

...Wrong thread

We already know what the NRA would say: "if only all the other students and teachers were armed, they could have TAKEN THIS CRETIN OUT BEFORE HE KILLED ANYONE!

Can't you just picture the world the NRA wants, there you are going to school peacefully reading a book, one punk pulls out a gun and starts shooting and a gazillion other guns go off in "defense"?

Imagine the carnage?

The more scared people have guns the better the profits

........enter with me if you will.....The Twilight Zone. Time and place, rural America mid 1930's, rural schoolhouse. Tom, nice pheasant, hang it outdoors were you born in a barn? Make sure your shotgun is unloaded, put it in the closet and be seated please, and will you help Timmy sharpen his pencil with your folding knife? (my father, food provider) dododododododo.

Paul, but, at this point with the primary tomorrow, will it matter? And, truthfully, do robo calls even influence votes? Everyone I have talked to hates robo calls - no matter which side is making them!

Paul - That somebody is sneaky Ricky. He's been debunked twice in a space of one week. First was Arlen Specter and now NRA. What a shame.

Good point, phine. Makes even more sense from the perspective of my question below.

Someone does know, and maybe someone will investigate -- but the damage will be done, long before anyone can track it back. The same is happening in Canada, where robocalls are telling voters the wrong date, the wrong place to show up to vote, etc. etc. There's an industry devoted to spreading misinformation in order to buy elections -- and the same 25 or so very wealthy people funding most of the organizations doing it. They don't care about much of anything except lower taxes on very wealthy people, and unlimited oil drilling so they can make more gazillions.

Hey Talk to.....can you supply a link to that group you cited?

Talk to the hand: "White Americans for____" is the standard slogan for Teapublicans.

jimsepa... and look at how you hate them for it... yet you embrace the darker side of that coin.

Hypocrite!

(show me the clown nose, fisty!)

GBM it is:

barackobama.com/african-americans/

And watch the "A message from the president" video

Ginger, I received this you tube link in an email from someone bitching about it

http://youtu.be/BdjoHA5ocwU

https://my.barackobama.com/afampotusvid

Talk to the Hand - Totally ignorant post but I expect nothing else from "the Hand."

LOL! Hey Talk-to-the-Hand... There you go again backing up your point with facts... how dare you! LOL!

This site and the White House itself are FILLED with racists and bigots! (oh and hypocrites!)

(show me the clown nose, fisty!)

SS - As I expect nothing more substantive than your response. Name calling when you have nothing else.

Sickofthebickering - And once they go to the site, I expect no other comments going forward. They will refuse to believe it is true and will look for some justification for the existence of the "group".

What talk to the hand failed to mention were all the group listings: also Asian Americans and pacific islanders, BarackObama.com en esapanol, Jewish Americans, Latinos, LGBT, People of Faith, Veterans of Military Families, Women and Young Americans. Information for everyone.

I didn't see a group for RWNJ @!$%#s though, so, I guess that leaves a few people out. ;-)

Talk-to-the-Hand...

Believe it or not... once upon a time, one of them actually posted on this site "you can't be a racist if you are black!"

LOL!

-------------------------------

Hey Cynthia... for a guy that was supposed to unify us... why all the division on that site? I'll tell you why... because he is divisive force not a unifying one. He has driven more wedges between various groups in this country than any other human in history. HE IS BAD FOR AMERICA AND BAD FOR ITS PEOPLE!

-------------------------------

(show me the clown nose, fisty!)

Cynthia, do they have the endorsement of the POTUS? And those other groups you mention (real or not) are groups more than likely self formed and not based on the characteristics or necessarily beliefs of him. They are just going to vote for him..........again.

I didn't see a group for RWNJ @!$%#s though, so, I guess that leaves a few people out. ;-)

Sane people yes. And once again, the insults. Perfect.

Sick: And I quote you, "yet you embrace the darker side of that coin". Wow. Please don't even try to defend the racist undertones with that statement.

Knew it.

Hand- I agree, how dare they try to say African Americans, are really Americans. How dare they try to get more African Americans to be involved in politics. When we white people see this happening, it freaks us out. LOL This reverse racism is BS, and you know it. Who has the power?

No need to jimsepa... we are all pretty much the same here my friend...

(show me the clown nose, fisty!)

I really don't see how it is devisive to have information by each state and for any group you feel you belong to, what the issues are and how the President is working to resolve them.

"I offer my opponents a bargain: if they will stop telling lies about us, I will stop telling the truth about them. " ~Adlai Stevenson

hehe, so true Talk.........I'm thinking they now seen it. I wonder why it wasn't FR's first story today or better yet, why it's not on now? Thus why someone asking for the link..........because all their news comes from MSNBC/FR.

Hummbird - Nice twist. Did you make that up all by yourself? And ask the college student with straight A's who couldn't get accepted to the college of his/her choice because the quota was filled already if it is BS.

And Paul - I had to hear it on the local radio station this morning to even know it was out there. MSM won't touch it. Of course, the liberals will say it is "no news" like the few defending it in this thread. Justifying.

I'm starting a group "Cat Owners (not that we really own them) for Obama". My cat is already sporting her blue "Cats for Obama" collar, so she will be suitably attired at the meetings.

I'm actually not finding that much wrong with a call that tells people that Santorum had an A+ NRA rating and Romney did not. Doesn't imply endorsement by the NRA---just tells facts to people that it might make a difference to.

But your cat can't vote........er.........well maybe it can. No ID required. : )

Talk......I see nothing wrong with having a group such as African Americans for Obama, they are Americans too. So what? There are lots of groups for the President, so you feel the same way about Latinos for Obama, or Women for Obama, etc.

You outed yourself as to being a bigoted individual, who seems to have a problem with people whose skin is a different color from yours. You must have been carefully schooled to be afraid of those who are in any way different. Get used to it, the world is changing and diversity is trending all over and that's a good thing.

And for those who claim the President is divisive, one can only unite those that want to be united.

Some in this country, from the day he was elected have been against him, they were very vocal in that they wanted him to fail. The GOP from the getgo have made sure that anything he proposed would not succeed, in most cases just because he proposed. Before he was even inaugurated, it started, leaving many of us to wonder why. Was it because he was a Democrat or even worse in their eyes, he was also black?. Oh dear God, apoplectic fits at the thought of a black man and his beautiful family in the WH. Well you will have to deal with it for another 4 years, if your clown show keeps on the way they are now, for no matter how you may denigrate your President, the polls are showing that a majority is starting to realize we have a good man there now, who has the best interests on all Americans.

Your side has nothing to offer, except you hate President Obama and you need more that, a lot more.

GBM - I am not bigoted. Only against inept leadership and exploiting and pandering (which all politicians do) to target audiences. I merely was pointing out the fact that the "speech" he gave along with the push for so called unity within one LARGE group, would not be accepted if the shoe were on the other foot. Simply pointing out the continued hypocrisy of the leftist agenda. Thanks for the discussion and now on to more important things. Have a great day and see you on FR tomorrow.

Why doesn't obama.com kickoff a group of the largest most "diverse" block of adverse voters in America..........the something for nothing free-loader crowd, the someone else needs to pay their fair share crowd, the throw them a bone and they'll always vote for us crowd, the you are whats wrong with America crowd, all better known as "The Subjugated" hyphen Americans.

PS: Nice race baiting Gingerbread.

Paul,

That is a very Machiavellian thought. I LIKE it!

Maybe not "very..." I came up with it, and only think about these campaigns for a little bit every day. The campaign staffs are full of people who do this for a living and currently think about their campaigns all the time.

They get into levels of thought we can't even imagine - well, just like in our work we get into levels of thought that people outside those professions couldn't imagine. No different. For instance, regardless of who did this, I'm sure there was some discussion about how this would intersect with the news out of Ohio, assuming these calls didn't go so early as to be unstoppable before that story broke. And I'm sure that was debated. If it was Romney's team, they may have seen this as an opportunity to further incense gun control advocates in Michigan to vote against Santorum, not to mention the impact a story like this - assuming it develops legs - could have in Ohio not too far down the road. All that stuff gets debated, and then they make what they see is their best move.

But a simple litmus test often is: who wins from this?

Paul, do you ever wonder about the professionals that work for campaigns? I mean, this is what they do for a living, hired on by one campaign or another, we don't really know if they even believe the ideology of the candidate they are working for.

As for the simple litmus test, sometimes I think it is deeper than what you and I realize.

GBM...

Where does it stop? What if that kid did not have access to a gun...

Perhaps he would have had access to something else that could hurt people maybe like a knife? Or chemicals from the chemistry lab? Or a car to plow into a crowd?

Should we deny him access to EVERYTHING? If so, then what you have denied him access to is his FREEDOM!

That's right up Pres. Obama's alley isn't it?

What that person did today was horrible, but denying people their freedom does not fix that problem. Eventually we get back to the bare-bones of beating each other with sticks like cavemen... and we still will not have fixed crazy (have we).

(show me the clown nose, fisty!)

How about going the other way "sickof"? Why don't we start selling bombs at Walmart? Bombs dont kill people either, right? Why take away access to bombs? If he can't get a bomb, he could just get a gun or a knife, or a car to kill people? You really think everyone should be carrying a gun w/ them at all times and this will help lower our crime rate?

Steveo... I don't care whether they carry a gun, a knife or as you put it a bomb!

My concern is for their RIGHT to carry one as guaranteed by the Constitution!

But hey... the rights that are guaranteed to us under the Constitution are not of any concern to you and your type are they? You know what's best for us and you will force us to accept it won't you? Well just try it my friend... you see... I exercise my constitutional rights... think about it!

(show me the clown nose, fisty!)

Funny but when I was growing up we didn't have school shootings - and when I was in HS many of the kids DID bring guns to school, primarily hunting rifles and shotguns which were stored in the cab of their trucks. Remember cab-window rifle racks?

Guns aren't the problem, people willing to harm other people are the problem. Today people are too willing to take measures far out of proportion to whatever it is troubling them. If it wasn't a gun it would be a knife, or a car, or a maltov cocktail, or some other concoction. You get angry people flipping out with no self-control there are many things that could happen.

That's right bro...times have changed and people have changed and we shouldn't have everyone carrying a gun. Its not the 17th century, and everyone shouldn't have the right to carry a gun everywhere.

GBM, We have children shot every week in Detroit. Last week a 9 month year old was shot in the head by a Gang driveby and a 82 year old was car jacked and had his leg broke.He crawled to the store while people stood and watched. Today a 6 year old was shot in his parents car. I carry a .380 with a CWP everywhere I have a handi capped wife who can not run away, so i will stand and defend her. As I would for anyone who asked for assistance. Its a bizarre world where the former Democratic Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick (convicted Felon and under indictment) is invited to speak in the city he stole millions from and 200 people show up.

Steveo,

Did you ever think that maybe the reason we didn't have school shootings before is because guns were more accepted in our society then. Not even getting into, the moral decay of our society from liberal thinking becoming more prevalent. Criminals didn't think they could get away with things so easily, because they didn't know who would and could stand up against them. Now, they know guns aren't allowed in certain areas, therefore, there's nobody who can stop them before they do whatever their sick twisted mind decides to do.

This has become a society of victims, hoping big brother will protect them from the boogey man, instead of learning how to protect themself and not becoming a victim to begin with.

I'm not advocating every person carry a firearm, but those that have the will not to be victims and learn the proper use should have the right to.

"an armed society is a polite society"

If they are a legal US citizen with no criminal record, then as many as they want! Want to know a secret, the vast majority of violent crimes involving firearms are committed by someone who has the firearm illegally.

Remember the first thing a totalitarian regime does before it takes complete power is to take away weapons from legal, law abiding citizens, usually in the name of public safety. E.G. Nazis, USSR, China, Vietnam, Cuba, Italy (WWII.)

Our founding fathers had the wisdom to ensure our right to keep and bear arms, not only to protect us from foreign powers, but from our own government becoming too powerful as well.

"Government is best where it governs least"

Do you think we should get ready for the Marians.Whooo whooo Maybe the spirits are going to come for us.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I present the intelligence of the liberal mind (bill-2022019.) Unable to construct a coherent, let alone intelligent argument, resorts to either name calling or ridicule.

Intelligent people construct arguments when they disagree.

What's a Marian anyway?

In the weeks leading up to and including Obama's election you could hardly find any ammo in stock anywhere, because the nuts thought Obama was going to ban guns.

There always has to be an NRA bogeyman, or their membership will dry up. It's either Obama, or democrats in general, and now even the UN! The UN is coming for your guns.

UDunnoBro

Here is a list of BANNED Handguns in Ca. The ONLY reason that they are BANNED is because they are no longer in production and were not sent to the State for safety testing. Now these Handguns PASSED the safety inspection every year that they were in production. WHY ARE THEY UNSAFE NOW and BANNED??

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/oag.ca.gov/files/pdfs/firearms/removed.pdf

and SGT. is there any doubt that teh pic of the President was photoshopped to make his skin tone darker??????

Sans Scrotum? Does your mommy know you skipped 5th grade today?

You mean like in LA and Detroit?

Idiot!

(show me the clown nose, fisty!)

There's no convincing these people of facts. They truly think the country would be safer if EVERYONE carried a gun w/ them. It's a shame that a big chunk of our population is this ignorant.

K2mn,

As an atheist, I never understood how someone who claims to be a Christian as Obama has done can mock his own religion. It leads me to believe that is not Christian or he is lying. Saying people who are bitter tend to cling to their Bible and guns doesn't sound like he has much respect for Christianity.

I bet the mothers of the dead child and the injured parties wish someone close by had a gun to give their children a fighting chance of surving.

Steve, I know us "right wing wackos," have these pesky little things called facts. Look up counties in the US where gun ownership is mandatory and see the crime rate compared to counties next to them where its not. But, maybe that's just a fluke. So lets look at israel or switzerland, where every law abiding citizen is required to have firearms and to train with them, what's their violent crime rate? But, those are different societies, so maybe its a cultural thing, (they can handle it, but we couldn't.) How about the violent crime statistics in states with concealed carry laws, look at the crime rate before and after, in every single state, the crime rate either stayed the same or in most cases went down.

And what is the murder rate in chicago, New york, Washington DC (places where it is difficult or impossible to own handguns legally?)

But, what about all those crimes comitted by people with concealed carry license, oh wait, there are so few its statistically insignificant. Less than half of 1% of all concealed license carriers ever commit any crime (let alone a violent crime) with their weapon, and usually its accidentally taking it someplace they shouldn't have.

Compare that to the overall rate of crimes comitted with firearms, almost all of those crimes are comitted by someone who has the fire arm illegally.

Taking guns away from legal owners will only take them away from people who don't commit crimes anyway.

Pesky facts.

You can thank Obama. Since he took office, there has been tens of millions more guns on the streets. 15 million were sold for 2011 alone, a new record. And under Obama, people are now allowed to carry handguns in our national parks.

Road warrior, I don't agree with you hardly at all,but you are right in this case.

I teach a CWP class and ask the people there why they want to carry.

Let's take a class of 21. Six will say they forgot to renew their permit .Three or four will say an animal attacked them.

However, the rest of the class will say they are afraid O'Barma is going to take their right to carry away.

This is not the fault of President Obama. Instead it's the GOP Governors who kiss the rear ends of the NRA. Get your facts in order and stop the GOP lies.

The administration putting guns into the hands of Mexican drug gangs is a crazy way to keep guns off the streets. Damn NRA, Damn governors, Damn lack of gun control, Damn 2nd Amendment!

Dog Patch,

I have been licensed in six states and have been to eight all-day training classes. I have never heard anyone saying they wanted a permit because they are afraid the president might take the right to carry away. A better explanation of the increase number of gun sales under Obama, or any Democrat president for that matter, is the fear that gun control would make it impossible for a law-abiding citizen to own a gun. Imagine if they prohibit the sale of Air Jordans next year. You would see a run on the shoes for the next twelve months.

Keeping your guns locked up & out of the hands of children is common since gun regulation... It is NOT Big Government Overreach nor is Government taking away your guns, your freedoms or liberties!

The NRA should keep the hell out of the elections ---- Americans are sick & tired of Corporate interference in Government

Jim, keeping guns out of the hands of children is absolutely great common sense....and there are laws to support this measure, but demanding the government do something more, anything more is not. Especially when so many people in America SELECTIVELY "OBEY" ONLY THE LAWS THEY AGREE WITH. The burden of action to do something is on the gun owner not on Washington, DC.

If guns were outlawed,, school kids would go back to shooting each other with rubber bands & spit wads

There is no valid argument for a kid to have a gun.... Outlaw parents like his for not keeping guns locked up

Jimmt 937260,, Jim 372206 has a good point. In our state we've had too many kids either shooting themselves or shooting a friend. There all terrible tragedies and it's unfortunate that the NRA can't even get behind gun locks! Sheesh!

Good point Jim. This is why I can't figure out why everyone is so upset about Iran getting a nuke. It's just an object. It's the person that is the danger.