Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

If you think FOX NOISE is too crazy, check out Rick Santorum's position:

Rick Santorum’s Position on Women and Nearly Every Issue Neatly Summed Up

http://bartblog.bartcop.com/2012/02/24/santorum%E2%80%99s-position-on-every-issue-neatly-summed-up/

Feisty, LoL. What's even more alarming than those ridiculous statements is the fact that FOX viewers believe that garbage which makes your avatar a truth-teller.

It's Friday. Let's take a break. Try reading the following paragraph:

I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the first and last ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can still raed it wouthit a porbelm. This is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?

If you're amazed, you should see what it did to spell checker. Here's what's even more amazing. There are many people in the U.S., who can barely read or can't read at all. Their handicap doesn't track to a mental problem. It tracks to a background where education doesn't even rise to the level of an afterthought, or worse, that it's dangerous. And it's far more common than you might think.

It's not that our education system has failed. It's how we view education itself. How did we ever allow ourselves to believe that our education begins at five or ends at 18? What makes us believe that every child, each of whom is different, each of whom has differing support, learning ability, temperament, and so on is ready for kindergarten at the age of five? It's ridiculous on its face, and yet we barely question the notion. Indeed, it's clear we have confused going to school with receiving an education.

Our education begins at birth and if we're lucky if it continues right up until the moment we take our last breath. Education can't be stuffed and manipulated to fit into a system. We sure like to pretend it can though. That and that alone is the reason we continue to fall behind the rest of the rest of the world.

If you have five minutes, take a look at this video: http://www.innovationamerica.us/index.php/innovation-daily/2024-what-sony-played-at-its-annual-shareholder-meeting-this-year

That's two years ago and nothing has slowed down. If anything, the world is moving even faster. Now, take a look at the protestors who are asking where the jobs are. Look at the kids wandering around texting their very important messages, "I'm drinking a two-liter bottle of Mountain Dew and breathing." They're listening to their MP3's or whatever is the latest distraction. Learning? Not even a little. They expect someone else to tell them what to do, because they never really learned anything in school - certainly not independent thinking.

Those who scoff at education, who denigrate the educated as "elite", who see cultivated intellect as snobbery are dangerous. They deliberately snub learning, allowing the unknown to remain unknown. They feed their own fears because it is the nature of mankind to fear the unknown, and how dare we tell them that they act against their own best interests.

It is really time we educated ourselves about education.

I can assure you that Gingrich is no Harry Truman. Truman was a man of action as apposed to The Grinch who's nothing but a loud mouth. He never has a nice or decent thing to say to anyone. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. With his his track record and history, he shouldn't even be allowed to run for President. He's pathetic.

Obama in 2012.

Newt Gringrich Should Apoligize To Obama & Americans

Referring to the burning of "radical Islamic material" that included the Qur'an, the former House speaker said the situation had been "blown into a huge incident by various fanatics in Afghanistan." He told a crowd gathered at a campaign rally at the Bing Crosby Theater that while the president had apologized for the burning, he had not called on the Afghan government to issue an apology for the deaths of two NATO soldiers who were killed by a man wearing an Afghan army uniform during increasingly violent protests of the desecration of the Muslim holy book.

"There seems to be nothing that radical Islamists can do to get Barack Obama's attention in a negative way," Gingrich said, "and he is consistently apologizing to people who do not deserve the apology of the president of the United States, period."

Although Presidential apologies are rare, they are not unheard of. President George W. Bush offered an apology to Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki after a U.S. soldier fired several bullets into a Quran in 2008. And Bush also said he was "sorry for the humiliation suffered by the Iraqi prisoners and the humiliation suffered by their families" following the Abu Ghraib scandal.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57384194-503544/gingrich-says-obama-surrendered-by-apologizing-to-afghans/

============================================================

Hey Noot, what about Georgie Boy? He apologized.

Please, Noot needs to get a grip. The Taliban shot our US troops. They are burning effigies of President Obama, shouting death to America, and rioting.

For Gingrich to call on President Obama to " DEMAND" the Afghan government issue an apology would certainly escalate more tensions between the strained, existent, relations in Afghanistan and the Middle East. President was working with the Taliban prior to burning of their Qur'an; so Newt should give progress time to work; instead of more war.

Newt Gingrich's foray into divisiveness is unnecessary and beyond uncivilized. Plus, it sets forth a standard totally against the Christian principles Gingrich so touts of himself and his party. Does Gingrich want a blood bath or a further ruination to the face of America? Moreover, Gingrich being a historian, should pay attention to history.

Noot is bad for America.

"We're greater together than we are on our own"--President Obama quote

Nobody, but Obama/Biden 2012

Jack, your post the other day was so funny; now you've gone and added more humor to it!

Good morning everyone! Happy Friday!

Thanks for the chuckles this morning everyone, including Joe.

Joe's comments are funny because it's clear he has no idea what the so called conservative's on the right, running for president, plans and policies are. They certainly are not fiscally conservative.

Joe must have missed the article in WSJ today titled, Report Says Candidates' Plans Boost Federal Debt by Janet Hook. Pretty good read Joe.

David Walker -- Outstanding!

Fiesty, don't you dare change your avatar. We all love it. It's not only honest but also very, very true as everyone I work with that listens to Fox is a.. well you know. I only wish I had thought of it.

David Walker, wish what you said wasn't true but sadly it is.

Beverly, well said. Newt Gingrich never knows when to keep his big mouth shut.

Hey JoAnnaSmith1 -- Go educate yourself. Here is a good place to start:

For anyone interested in why gas prices are soaring the best sources to learn from are sources that report on business like the WSJ.

Yesterday's edition of the WSJ has a terrific article titled, Drivers at the Mercy of Crude Prices by Tom Fowler. Here is a quote from the article:

America is pumping more oil out of the ground than it has in years thanks to a surge in onshore drilling. U.S. refineries are producing more gasoline and diesel than ever. And Americans' gasoline consumption is at an 11 year low.

So with all that supply and not much demand, why have gasoline prices risen high enough this year to resurface as a national political issue? The short answer, experts say, is that the global economy and geopolitics, not the U.S. industry or economy, are driving gasoline prices..........

Read the whole story and learn some facts.

Former Florida Republican Governor Jeb Bush said the GOP presidential candidates are “appealing to people’s fears”. “It’s a little troubling sometimes when people are appealing to people’s fears and emotion rather than trying to get them to look over the horizon for a broader perspective.”

Semper Fi on MSNBC 10/9 ET

About the water at Camp Lejeuene. Thousands of Navy people were there, also.

My husband, myself and two daughter were there for 13 years. U.S. Navy

It is awful what they did to cover up what this has done to our health.

Here's education on gas prices from 2008 and an example of a broken campaign promise about windfall profits taxes. And now -- move over corn, it is ALGAE!!! Oh for the love of God. We now need to kill our algae eaters in our fish tanks to do our fair share. This man is unbelievably stupid and naive.

"Gas prices are killing folks," Obama said. "I got an email from a friend of mine; it says, just in case you're not living in the real world, being driven around by Secret Service, it just cost me $85 to fill up my tank."

Referencing his Pennsylvania ad, which features Obama in at a gas station decrying the price of gas, Obama said Exxon-Mobil had made $11 billion in profits just last month. In Pennsylvania, according to the Web site, PennsylvaniaGasPrices.com, the average price of gas is $3.28 a gallon. One year ago, it was $2.69 per gallon.

"They have been in fat city for a long time," Obama said of Exxon and other oil and gas companies. "They are not necessarily putting that money into refinery capacity, which could potentially relieve some of the bottlenecks in our gasoline supply. And so that is something we have to go after. I think we can go after the windfall profits of some of these companies."

Obama, a proponent of ethanol, said the country needed to do more to increase production and incorporate ethanol that used sugarcane not just corn. He also said that the internal combustible engine had seen its last days.

I see the lemmings are in lock step....

Joe must have missed the article in WSJ today titled, Report Says Candidates' Plans Boost Federal Debt by Janet Hook. Pretty good read Joe.

__________________________________________________________

I read that story already. I have learned over time that federal deficit spending is a long-term fact of life, as long as there is no hope of either party in Washington doing anything about them. It's a major part of the reason why I believe America is in decline and its best days are in the rear view mirror. The only place where I have a difference of opinion with lefty liberals is that I want the deficits to leave the money in my pocket through tax cuts rather than be used for wasteful spending on flying unicorn and fairy dust fantasies that reward Barry's campaign cash bundlers, like Solyndra.

Joe in Albany on the other side of communism is fascism. When you run out of middle class and all you have are people in poverty, who do you have left to bleed dry?

The reality is the answers are somewhere in the middle and not in extremes. Either side will kill a nation.

WTG Fiesty,,,love it when you piss off rightwing know it all mouths like Joe in Albany,, keep up the good work.

Feisty.....thanks for the laugh, there's more truth than humor there.

Jack, I loved your post from Tuesday it was hilarious as many have indicated, your response here to Brianb is priceless, perhaps statements like that quoted from BB may have contributed to him losing his job.

Sorry Joe, defense spending is and always has been a conservative agenda not liberal. The only time you have seen massive builds ups and spending in defense is with republican presidents. Obama had two wars he inherited to pay for, blaming him for the defense spending is about as stupid as one can get. The republicans want war in Iran, listen to all of the candidates.

And tax cuts being an answer to deficit reduction is a myth, it has never happened. Republicans leave democrats with garbage, democrats have been fixing it and taking the blame for the bad economy and its been a cycle for 30 years. Its not even logical what you are saying, the stuff you are talking about Obama wasting money on, don't add up to much and most of it has added up. What he pays for in policy from Bush who slashed the revenue severely before tanking the economy, that is where money is spent.

The only answer is low corporate, capital gains tax, and small business. Get rid of the loopholes, get rid of the personal gains loopholes that are letting the very wealthy get away with extremely low taxes on lavish items. Get rid of the back door policy of corporate tax that lets businesses pay off congress to pay nothing in taxes. Get rid of the payroll tax reduction, and everyone takes a smaller hit rather than bleeding the shrinking middle class, or hitting business so it can't compete.

Cut SPENDING that is how you reduce the deficit, Obama actually introduced the only plan of the candidates that would do that, but of course that involves letting the Bush tax breaks expire as intended two years ago.

What gets me is Obama can say so much in a speech and nothing he says will be accomplished or tried... What he has to say is all garbage to trick you and me to believe he is doing a great job which he is not!!!!!!

JAS1 -- Don't ask me about what other people either said or didn't say concerning gas prices under Bush. I could care less. ; )

Fact is no President has control over the price at the pump.

Feisty Redhead:

Oh, and, beware of the "Lorax" according to Lou Dobbs it's the newest enemy trying to indoctrinate our precious children… lol

Not only has Fox exposed Dr. Seuss as a radical socialist, they went after the latest Muppet movie, too. I'm puzzled as to why Fox hasn't also gone after Charles Dickens, an obvious liberal Communist who put our glorious capitalist system in a bad light with characters like Ebeneezer Scrooge.

Gee, NBC's big headline here is this ridiculous "battleground map", and guess what, it shows Obama's chances for reelection much improved due to the wonderful state of the economy. Too bad, NBC, there's a great big 800 lb gorilla in the room, and despite the fact that it's everyone's #1 concern today, you and the rest of the Lamestream Media are ignoring it....not a word of coverage anywhere.

Well, you can ignore it all you want, but the rest of us are hit right in the face with it every time we pull up to the gas pump and see $4.00, or even $5.00! And, people don't like it, and Obama can't blame this one on Bush....gas was $1.97 when he left office. No, this is Barry's albatross, and simply avoiding it won't wash with the people. If he isn't going to do any better than that lame speech he gave yesterday, it's going to sink his campaign like a torpedoed oil tanker.

I see my post from the other day really bothered Jack in Portsmouth. Since Jack doesn't understand reason, he attacks me when I'm not even present to show all his liberal buddies how tolerant he is. Well maybe not so tolerant... Jack prescribes to everything being equal, but yet he totally rejects anything conservative in nature... even if what IS conservative has it's basis on Biblical writings and past events.

Jack is one of those lost souls seeking to find his identity. He has no core beliefs other than the socialistic track this country is heading down. He longs for the day when the government provides everything for everyone, thereby losing the very freedom this country has stood upon for over 200 years.... throw it all into the wind, eh Jack... settle for mediocrity. Encourage those with abhorrent lifestyles because they define the nation... right Jack? Long gone are the days when people tried to walk on the straight and narrow to achieve a moral imperative. Hell, what's morals anyway? Something to get in the way of you wanting to do anything you want to do and not have any guilt associated with it. Sorry Jack, it doesn't work that way. Guilt will get in your way every time you do something wrong.

It's OK Jack that you don't agree with me... It's even OK that you post a past remark I made... I have the satisfaction to know that remark troubled you... so much so that you were compelled to repost it a few days later. Good for you Jack... you are a model citizen??? Uh huh!

Jack:

Herons, you say? I just didn't think there was any point in looking further when I heard about Horny Toads. I'll have to check this out.

Feisty:

Is it possible you have broken the record for having the fastest-collapsed post? Can you confirm or deny the rumor that the Republican Party is considering a new motto: "Truth?!? Truth?!? We don't need no stinkin' truth!"

A lot of topic's here to chat about, but short on time. Yes the people at FOX are nits.. I am going to look up "we keep marrying other species and other ethnics.", species has me intrigued. As for bird's, I love them all, birds of prey, one of my favorites, they get the job done swift and clean. FYI I like the icon Feisty. Enjoy the day.

Fiesty-

So true Its sad how people in our country belive everything on TV or Internet as long is bashes Democrats or Liberals. People need to smart up and do there own reasearch than beliveing the liers at Fox News.

TNSEVOL JoAnna- Recycle your posts much.

When necessary.

Do have any comment on the subject matter, or do you just like to complain?

Well, joeee you little troll, if the fast cat wouldn't put their money in offshore bank accounts that wouldn't be

________________________________________________

Bev: I see you got an F in your ESL class.

BTW, I love your avatar as much as Nasty's, and for the same reason.

Is it possible you have broken the record for having the fastest-collapsed post?

Why I do believe I have - now where do I pick up my trophy?

"Truth?!? Truth?!? We don't need no stinkin' truth!"

Judging from the brilliant minds trashing the place this morning, with nothing more then PMSNBC - DNCMBC & so on, I would say you are on to something! ☺

Poor BB. Listen, fella. I found my identity and core beliefs in Viet Nam. They're based on experiencing and witnessing a kind of suffering and terror and violence that you will never, ever understand, not only because you base your core beliefs on a book written centuries ago by numerous authors over various periods of history, but because you lack the capacity for critical or reflective thinking, and in fact are too lazy and too scared to open your narrow little mind to the existence of a world outside the imaginary one you've created.

Gingerbread Mamma--Thanks. It's good to hear from you.

D.W. You haven't tried herons!?! OMG you don't know what you're missing!

Ha Jack your post made me laugh, as I see it it is a matter of degree, if want someone to tickle you with some feathers that is kind of kinky, if you want them to use the whole chicken that is kind of perverted. However as long as the chicken is a consenting participant in the matter I have no problem with it. Ha have a great day everybody.

JAS1 - You post a link to an OPINION, lol. That's funny. Did you forget I could give a $hit about someone's opinion. I could post a few links to opinions too, JAS1. Instead I advocate for educating oneself with facts. Opinions are a dime a dozen.

Jack, you're becoming one of favorites! Hilarious, as always. I had to read that whole narrative you wrote the other day aloud to my husband. Needless to say he died laughing and he knows nothing of those neanderthals you wrote about!

Beverly, it's sick how intolerant people are isn't it? The news of the article about Alaska has my stomach turning.

Ben, I don't exactly know what you mean about algae because you didn't make it clear but do you know what kind of situation we would be in if all the algae died off? Algae is not only one of the main sources of food for many aquatic animals but it also produces a huge amount of oxygen for the earth.

On the topic of the Gingrich mouth-off about Obama apologising for the burning of holy documents in Afghanistan: This is a HUGE deal to these people. Imagine if the U.S. had come become invaded by another country's (with a totally different religious belief than our own and in fact who criticized, belittled, and illegitimized our own religious beliefs publicly and without any remorse or discretion) military and then burned bibles out in the open without any reason given as to why they did it. It would be pandamonium!

It was wrong of them to kill our troups for this reason and I'm not condoning it in any way. It makes me really mad too! I honestly understand their rage. Just like I understand that Mormons should not be prancing around baptizing dead Jews! What is everyone's problem?! Tell me religion is good and that we need more of it.

I live in the bible-belt. My boss came in the other day and asked me, "What's wrong with the world?" I said, "Not enough love!" He said in reply, "Not enough faith!" I left it at that. I think he's totally wrong. Blind faith never leads to good things. Blind faith leads people to stop questioning things and thinking critically. I'm appalled. I also need to move!

BrianB:

You have an opportunity to make an enormous contribution to science. Open your mind. Prove to all the world that a "perfect vacuum" is not simply a theory.

The republicans problems are of their own making, they have done nothing to warrant the confidence of the middle class regrading the economy, they were swept in on the promise of jobs, and many will be swept out just as fast, there is no way they will win the oval office, and they have no one to blame but themselves. If the republican congress and some republican governors and state legislatures would have done something to promote middle class economic issues they could have walked away in 2012 with all three branches, that ship has sailed away on them, actually that ship crashed on the jagged rocks of social issues that defy their own very notion of too much government control in the private lives of citizens, and is listing dead in the water, with many previous supporters abandoning ship. It was the economy stupid. Welcome to Waterloo republicans by so adamantly refusing to allow this president any success you have denied yourselves any success and then went a step further and convinced the electorate you are not even concerned with what they elected you for in the mid-terms. Like I said, Welcome to Waterloo.

Ron Paul in 2012! Make a difference!

When gas prices go up, whoever happens to be president gets the blame. It happened to Bush and others, and it's happening to Obama as well. Of course, this is inherently unfair because generally speaking the price of gas (and the oil from which it is refined) is more a reflection of global market forces than any so called "energy policy" a president may or may not have implemented. But that's the way it is and the whiney left just needs to man up and take the heat – the same heat they gave Bush on this issue.

If there's any justice in the world, gas prices won't peak until early fall. That way, Obama gets to carry that millstone around his neck going into the election when the blame game gets translated into votes. And that would be too funny: for all the legitimate reasons why this president deserves to be tossed out of office, his political ox might be gored by something over which he has relatively little influence -- the price of gas.

That would be sooooooo unfair, but a delicious outcome nonetheless.

Joanna,

What's the matter? Feel left out when folks ignore the trite partisan BS of the RWNJs and refuse to bite?

Too bad, so sad. :(

For Feisty & the Faux News avatar crowd...If you haven't yet read "The Fox Effect" by David Brock, I highly recommend it!

Jack said: Poor BB. Listen, fella. I found my identity and core beliefs in Viet Nam. They're based on experiencing and witnessing a kind of suffering and terror and violence that you will never, ever understand, not only because you base your core beliefs on a book written centuries ago by numerous authors over various periods of history, but because you lack the capacity for critical or reflective thinking, and in fact are too lazy and too scared to open your narrow little mind to the existence of a world outside the imaginary one you've created.

Jack, how do you know I didn't attend Viet Nam University? You don't know me. Even though I completely disrespect your opinion, I will respect your service, no matter who you are.

That book you are referring to has been around for centuries. I'd give it a little more credence if I were you. It has stood the test of time, and nothing in that book will ever harm you. Nobody can make you read it, believe it and you even have the freedom to put it down if you so choose. You might want to open your mind a little though. Even if you don't believe it, you are living it and it has your name in it in various places. It's up to you to discover where your name is... and it's personal. I know you don't believe it so be my guest to totally disregard it... but like my post from the other day, knowing your name is in it will haunt you the rest of your days.

Why do we fight back and fourth over these two corrupt parties? Left says this, right says that. Your a conservative, your a liberal. Truth is that there is little difference between parties, So while we argue back and fourth the corporation powered industrial military complex runs things. Not these two parties figure heads. At the end of the day they fill their pockets with money and laugh at the American people that can't see past the illusion of difference. We as people need to come together to get rid of these corrupt liars that all promise one thing and do another. No matter who's in office government grows,War never ends, and blood sucking corporations make more money than ever before.Or we could just be a bunch of robots and believe that which is spoon fed to us by the media. I mean really the choices we have are a complete joke, it sickens me to think these two parties are the only choices we have. We need to vote away from these morons.

FG2.0: It was the economy stupid. Welcome to Waterloo republicans by so adamantly refusing to allow this president any success you have denied yourselves any success and then went a step further and convinced the electorate you are not even concerned with what they elected you for in the mid-terms.

So which is it? The President tells us we're on the road to economic recovery. He just got bi-partisan legislation that will pump another $100 billion of deficit dollars into the economy (after stealing it from the Social Security funds). Job creation was at 250,000+ last month.

But yet you say the economy is poor, that things aren't going well, both at the federal level and the state level. Many states though are improving, they've balanced their budgets, they're got their spending in line with their tax revenue, and they are getting expenses down to reasonable levels. That will benefit the middle-class in those states. And most, if not all, of those states are now run by Republicans while states like Illinois, New York, and California continue on this raise taxes and raise spending as they continue their sinking into the abyss.

Federal is another story too. There too we see the raise taxes, raise spending mentality that Obama and his Liberal leadership in Congress approve of, and it will have the same results that we see in Illinois, New York, and California. Think that will help the middle class when all these social programs will no longer be funded? It seems that is the true Waterloo of not just the Democrats, but of the country.

Joe in Albany......you said:

Quote......I believe America is in decline and its best days are in the rear view mirror.......EndQuote

That is all we need to know about you. That is WHY you and your GOPeaParty are doing all you can to sabotage America.

America will NOT fail. YOU will.

Buy American ! Buy Local ! Support America’s middle class ! Support Women’s rights ! Support Civil Rights ! Protect God’s Green Earth ! Vote Democrat ! Obama/Biden 2012 !

David,

Just reread your post. Wonderful, as always.

Bill,

"Of course, this is inherently unfair because generally speaking the price of gas (and the oil from which it is refined) is more a reflection of global market forces than any so called "energy policy" a president may or may not have implemented."

I agree.

You want to continue the blame game for partisan purposes because it would make you laugh?

How sad. I would have hoped you could bring something substantial to the discussion of energy use and the ultimate problems of relying on oil use in this global economy.

BTW, sounds like your state officials are walking back from the cliff they standing over their recent social legislation about personhood, and state government mandates for women seeking abortions. Bravo.

JAS1 -- In your shallow world the world is flat, those that lean right tell the truth based on an opinion they've read and people advocate for gas prices to remain high praying the uneducated will vote for president based on one issue. Talk about fairy tales, pixie dust and unicorns, lol. You honey are one dimensional, a 3D world makes you dizzy and confused.

One thing your little rant is missing....the truth. You see I read opinions from all sides. In fact, George Will, had a piece the other day in WaPo, titled, Santorum and Romney are miscast as candidates, I agreed with the statement made in that title and with the following paragraphs:

Today's Republican contest has become a binary choice between two similarly miscast candidates. Mitt Romney cannot convince voters that he understands the difference between business and politics, between being a CEO and the president. To bring economic rationality to an underperforming economic entity requires understanding a market segment. To bring confidence to a discouraged nation requires celebrating its history and sketching an inspiring destiny this history has presaged.

Romney is right about the futility of many current policies, but being offended by irrationality is insufficient. Santorum is right to be alarmed by many cultural trends but implies that religion must be the nexus between politics and cultural reform. Romney is not attracting people who want rationality leavened by romance. Santorum is repelling people who want politics unmediated by theology.

Neither Romney nor Santorum looks like a formidable candidate for November.

You see I do agree with conservatives on some things. This is one of those things.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/santorum-and-romney-are-miscast-candidates/2012/02/21/gIQA1l48TR_story.html

Forrest! Where you been? I hope you are doing much better! I haven't seen you post in a while. I was thinking about that and was hoping you were doing better. Same with Ms Grump. Nice seeing you on here again!

OH Gee, what a surprise....I told you guys last Fall that all the polling data was worthless because it was too far out to even consider the results a "bench mark". What a surprise! The President is pulling away from the competition. Gee, I'm all shocked and everything.

And the other big shocker, Romney may still be the guy but he's so damaged as to be unelectable! GEE WHIZ kiddies, I've been saying that since last summer!

Oh Cassandra, I feel your pain girlfriend, to be able to foretell the future and have no one believe you.

Gimme a break.

Romney still has a good chance of being the nominee, but it does not matter. The outcome of the election has been foertold! Santorum is just as unelectable as Mitt is. The radical right and the evangelicals stay home if Mitt is the nominee and if Santorum is the nominee the all important independent vote goes to Obama. It's a win-win. Newt and Grandpa are just gadflies, not serious contenders.

The only thing that would make this situation better (for us) would be if Chris Christie decides to save the GOP and make a late entry into the race. He'll get the nomination and will still lose because the GOP brand is so damaged and the best part is that his loss will damage his viability in 2016. He'll be yesterdays news, a frequent flyer, damaged goods. You can look for his campaign at the dollar store or Big Lots.

Remember children you heard it here first, not that anybody will listen, or believe me.

Obama/Biden 2012 (like I've been saying all along)

Watch out now, the Repugs are turning to gas prices to try to win an election. Good luck with that!

BB,

Jack, how do you know I didn't attend Viet Nam University?

Because you didn't. Big difference between a Viet Nam Vet and a Viet Nam-era Vet. That was pointed out to you a long, long time ago.

MGates--Thanks. It's nice to hear from you.

Skip--Even if Christie did get the nomination, the grueling schedule would literally kill him. His extreme arrogance might put aside the dangers to his health, but his body/heart wouldn't.

Dont: One thing your little rant is missing....the truth. You see I read opinions from all sides.

Interesting. First you were not interested in others opinions, and now you are. Quite the 180. Thought you were not interested in opinions, because you contradict yourself in post 1.60 with:

Dont: JAS1 - You post a link to an OPINION, lol. That's funny. Did you forget I could give a $hit about someone's opinion.

How soon you forget.

Still waiting on your answer to if Pelsoi, Reid, Wyden, Nelson and Obama were wrong to blame Bush for the gas prices when he was President. But I know after three attempts there will likely be no answer. That's how cowards like you operate.

You want to continue the blame game for partisan purposes because it would make you laugh...I would have hoped you could bring something substantial to the discussion of energy use

Get off your high horse before you fall, it was a comment on political reality. Deal with it.

Tolerance for other's opinions here?

Actually, with Solar Power, Windmills, Electric cars, in the end, will cost way more than a $5.00 per gallon price tag for Gas at the Station.

The Keystone Oil Pipeline (in Canada) is where things should have begun to happen. We must rely on Natural Resources from our own Country, as well. It is now too late to stop the train wreck.

All of us will have to way until 2012 to see what the results of the Election will be. Much too early---9 months---"Full Term".

I'm doing okay Brianb, and so is my wife thanks for asking. I have just been really busy doing my work for the international office of my union as well as my regular gigs, it's a good thing to be so busy but I do miss the time I used to have to post on FR more regularly, I always enjoyed this blog as a leisure time activity. I still pop in and out from time to time, I'm like a bad penny you just can't get rid of.

So, the avatar stays until someone can prove it's incorrect!

Well that ain't going to happen. That Avatar is right on the money! Don't you dare change it, Feisty. I Love it!

Hey Noot, what about Georgie Boy? He apologized.-------

Hey Bev, don't ya know---what's ok for a rethugli-con to do/or say isn't ok for a Dem to do/say. Look up the definition of the word hypocrit and you'll find a picture, depending on the revision level, of Newt, Rick, Mutt, or some other well known rethugli-cant. How anyone can vote for the rethug nominee is beyond me. Mutt has turned himself into a human pretzel with all his flip flopping and he's the best of the entire deck.

but because you lack the capacity for critical or reflective thinking, and in fact are too lazy and too scared to open your narrow little mind to the existence of a world outside the imaginary one you've created.-------

Jack, I'm impressed. As easy as it is to bash the simpleton named brainb (let's face it, he leaves himself wide open) you have taken it to an entirely new level. From now only I will refrain from bashing him and I look forward to your posts concerning him. Keep up the good work.

BTWbrian---the mind is ike a parachute. It only works when it's open. You are very quickly approaching the splat. You may want to pull the ripchord.

Obama campaigned in 2008 on the promise for "hope and change" and vowed to unite the country. Sadly, just in reading these posts, I have never seen this county MORE divided. There is less hope than ever before and all of the change has been disasterous. I would love to vote democrat this time around, but, scary as it is, I'm going to have to vote for whichever nut gets the republican nomination if there is going to be any hope at all to turn this country around. And as for the party of "no". I thank God every day that there is someone to say no to all of the stupid ideas coming out of this administration anyway.

Rock Will Never Die

So true Its sad how people in our country belive everything on TV or Internet as long is bashes Democrats or Liberals.

I don't think it's so true that people on either side believe EVERYTHING on TV or the Internet. But for most, the fun comes in the "bashing." What better way to start your day, then essentially telling other people, "You're stupid." Makes you feel all warm inside.

David Walker wrote:

It's not that our education system has failed. It's how we view education itself. How did we ever allow ourselves to believe that our education begins at five or ends at 18?

Personally I think that the more people who end their education at 18, the better. Far less competition that way.

I see you libertards are gloating on the POTUS media outlets reporting as usual. Gloat away for your poor excuse for human being as a lot you libbies are. Your POTUS has a good chance of being re-elected and we all will reap the loss of the constitution as we have known it in the past many years. I for one am extemely glad I am old and will pass and you libbies will gloat away when this garbage heap of liberal mantra comes down around your pathetic heads while paying 7 or 8 bucks a gallon for your fuel. ENJOY!

JAS1 --

Hell yeah they were wrong! Thought I made that clear with this statement:

Fact is no President has control over the price at the pump.

Learn to read everything JAS1, not just what you want to read.

Coward.

Joanna,

OK, I'll bite into your inane rambling.

Yes, the Dems were wrong when they blamed high gas prices on Mr. Bush.

But, beware, hypocrisy cuts both ways.

Now, tying this in to the hypocrisy of the Right and Fibbing Fox; as I recall back then, Fox's talking heads went crazy constantly reminding people how the President really has nothing to do with the price of gas.

What are the Faux News heads saying about it now?

And too, the gas prices can just as easily become a great talking point about the Right's penchant for giving billions in tax breaks to the oil companies, and how more oil is being drilled right now than at any other time, about how production is actually going up and domestic demand going down, so why are the greedy Republican-leaning oil companies gouging Americans?

One great thing about this season's Repub sound bite waterfall...they rarely consider the repercussions of their BS and then cringe when it's turned back around.

Justredd64,

Well, then, let me just say I'm extremely happy for you, too, and I hope you get what you desire.

Hey JAS1 -- Let me clarify my "Hell yeah they were wrong!" They should have blamed Cheney, they would have at least been partially correct!!! ; )

BrianB:

I'm not going to let you get away with your lies. You wrote:

"That book you are referring to has been around for centuries. I'd give it a little more credence if I were you. It has stood the test of time, and nothing in that book will ever harm you."

Let's just start with the obvious, the ".....if I were you.", part. If you were Jack, you wouldn't be posting unverifiable crap on this board. You wouldn't be posting lies. You would be a Viet Nam veteran and you would have an intellect.

The book in question here - The Bible - has NOT stood the test of time. It has been revised, redacted, translated, and edited countless times. The gospels of the New Testament weren't even put into print for almost a century AFTER the alleged crucifixion of Jesus the Christ.

Most of the New Testament is the product of a single man - Paul - who hated Christians. He was supposedly struck blind by god, and recanted, and lived AFTER the Jesus had died.

The collection of the books of the Bible has been going on, and changing for centuries, and is the product - SURPRISE! - of male authors, including the books of Ruth and Esther.

Try this one from the Old Testament: "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." Genesis 6:4. Giants! Really? Daughters of men! Really?

I never did see Jack's name in the Bible. I did see yours in a movie. Check out the "Life of Brian". It's based on the gospels.

An old pastor of mine from years ago (fairly liberal for a conservative preacher) told me this: "Pick up the KJV of the bible. Turn to the Gospels. Read the text in red. If you can't stomach anything else in the book, what you read will serve you well if you follow it."

Unfortunately, lots of folks get lost with the violence, hatred and bigotry of the OT and NT writers, and their "interpretations" of what was taught in those simple red-lettered texts.

MGates73

Beverly, it's sick how intolerant people are isn't it? The news of the article about Alaska has my stomach turning.

MGates73,

FOX NOISE makes my stomach turn with their slick graphics which LIE and the hate 24/7 365/days. When you go to other channels or cable station; at least you you get a mixture.

It is just incredible how totally ridiculous the right has become; and for what?

The problems with FOX NOISE are numerous.

a) they lie

b) there are actually some places where you can only get as opposed to more liberal channels

c) the talk radio stations too are more ubiquitous as opposed to progressive radio.

d) in the cases where there is more right wing propaganda hitting the the air waves, the people hear it constantly; therefore they tend to believe what they hear over and over.

I only named a few. Really, there is not enough space to lost others.

However, I have seen the polls some people are waking up to FOX LIES!!!

JAS 1 I'm sorry I don't have the time for a more detailed response at the moment but the point is that it does not matter much what I or you think the general electorate has lost confidence in the republican party to solve the day to day issues they face, national polling reflects this and whether we believe they are right or wrong they are not excited at the prospect of electing more republicans at this time. Republicans are not even excited about their own presidential candidates.

Thanks Forrest. I guess we'll agree to disagree. Hope all is well with you.

The REAL sad thing about all this crap is the Republican party IS committing Suicide! After years of slowly allowing the Cancer of the Teaparty & the Big corporations to eat out their brains And hearts they are now losing there souls. We need a two party systems to keep a level headed congress from tramping on the week, old, uneducated, gays,poor,children, minority's and NOW woman. Sad. I just hope enough people will vote these sick, corrupt people out. Anyone but the GOP/TEA'S in Nov.

The gas prices today are still the fault of what Bush did years ago. He invaded Iraq and waged political war on Iran which caused fear in the oil market of a shortage. The price due to his actions raised the price of crude from it's average of about $25 a barrel to well over $140 a barrel before it started settling down. The only reason the price of gasoline was low when Obama took office was because of the collapse of the economy and it was only after the economy started improving did the price start rising again.

Now the present oil problem is due to Iran acting like idiots causing global fears of another oil shortage but does anyone in their right mind really believe things would be better under a Republican president that talks about invading Iran? Are people so blind that they can't see that China and the rest of the world are also driving up the cost or crude? Republicans complain about the cost of gasoline but fight every attempt to find alternate sources of energy besides oil to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. Republicans are willing to give billions in subsidies to oil companies but fight giving any subsidies to an alternate energy company so I don't believe their priorities are in the long term survival of the country. Just to get theirs today and screw the children of tomorrow.

hungrymongoose

To all of you that are old, are veterans, or on disability:

Do not vote for Obama.

Remember, last year, on Tuesday, July 12, 2011, Obama said in an interview that he and his presidency would not be able to guarantee that Social Security checks, veterans checks, and disability checks would be going out on the scheduled date of August 3, 2011.

VOTE REPUBLICAN!!!!!!!!!!!! ---- they are the ones urgently trying to make sure you always get your check ---- Obama is an epic fail

Please use your brain and senses, assuming you have a functional brain, for something else. Turn off FOX. What you are NOT hearing is the President couldn't do anything if the republican and blue dog Congress did not put something on his desk to sign. Pick up a civics book and learn something else besides FOX NOISE.

FYI: The republican/ tea baggers are an EPIC FAIL. CHECK out the polls. today FOX-mussen has President Obama by 10. Tomorrow the lying FOX-mussen aka a Fox operative Rasmusenn will be back to pushing their agenda to their steeple.

Guesswhat54: Yes, the Dems were wrong when they blamed high gas prices on Mr. Bush.

My. Another convert.

You don't think Guess that maybe you Libs have to recant less that same criticism your side and the media gave Bush would possibly stick to Obama? Funny how that works. And you and Dcia realize you could lose your MSNBC LibsRDopes membership card if you keep this up. I doubt the hardcore libnuts around here will be jumping on that little "Not blaming Bush" rowboat of yours anytime soon.

<Fox News references cut out>

I'll have to refer to your expertise on Fox. I wouldn't know much about Fox News, or CNN or MSNBC. Don't watch any of them.

The collection of the books of the Bible has been going on, and changing for centuries,

David, keep in mind that not only were the Bible put together by a group on men but it's now coming to light that passages were banned from the Bible because it did not suit their idea of what they wanted Christianity to be.

http://voices.yahoo.com/5-books-were-banned-bible-why-5499207.html

Besides these books there was one that stated that man did not have to belong to a church to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Of course the Catholic Church was not going to have any part of that being in the Bible so it too was banned.

Dennis of columbus...

Thanks for the chuckle in your post 1.33

“It’s a little troubling sometimes when people are appealing to people’s fears and emotion rather than trying to get them to look over the horizon for a broader perspective.”

Yes it certainly is, a few instances comes to mind...

From obama and company

After ryan presented a FY2012 budget proposal that would cut the deficit in 10 years by over $3 trillion from obamas printed budget V 1.0. Obama invited ryan to obamas new version 2.0 rhetorical plan public speech. Who can forget obama chastizing it as throwing granny under the bus via a voucher plan. Even obamas own debt commision said entitlements had to be reformed. No playing to emotions from obama was there?

Then we have obama blowing off S&P's warning for a downgrade. What was obama thinking after all the contentious fighting over the belated passed FY2011 budget? Why obama went off on the campaign trail and told biden to handle the debt ceiling debate. Here he played to emotions by ignoring what was easily recognized as being more contentious than the 2011 budget.

This is my favorite when it comes to medicare/SS reform, deficit reduction, his AJA or really any program he wanted more money for...

All those public speeking events he held outside of the beltway as he beat the drum on...

If only the weathy would pay a little more...

If only the wealthy would pay their fair share...

If only corporations would pay a little more...

If only the corporations would pat their fair share and give up their jet aircraft deductions.

If only, if only, if only...

Yep dennis, no playing to emotions by obama is there? Aren't you a little bit troubled by this? After all, listening to practically any economist says that even with the wealthy and corporations giving "a little more" or "their "fair share" would do much to affect our debt. Heck even buffet said it wouldn't, even if he matched any congressional contributions to the treasury.

Nice to see that obama still likes rhetoric and "thousand page solutions" that need to be passed "right away". I'm thinking that his puppet pelosi closed the door on passing any thousand page+ legislation "right away".

I do so like his saying (paraphrased) " I deserve to be re-elected". Why? So he can present another "vision" for Americas future in 2013? He should have been doing that through out his first term every time he spoke.

Again thanks for my noon chuckle and do carry on.

Liz Trotta on sexual assault in the military: "What did they expect? These people are in close contact."

Fiesty, you are being too nice. Liz Trotta actually went on to get even better...

After stating "What did they expect?"... Liz then started to complain about the rising costs of counseling and medical bills because the women in the military are (and I quote) "getting raped too much."

Yes, the wonderful Fox News is blaming the women for the rising cost of getting "raped too much". Really, "too much"? As opposed to... what? Getting raped "just the right amount"?

Once again, we see the true colors of Fox News and the viewers that support them.

And don't forget about Hannity bringing on a group of old, white religious leaders that compared selling birth control to (and I quote again) "a rape of the soul." Yes... selling birth control is like having your soul "raped".

Or the Fox News anchor who compared Republicans sitting next to Democrats, during the State of the Union, as (another quote) "basically rape."

Seriously, Fox... what is with your f***ed-up obsession of comparing everything to rape? Do they know what rape is? How many times have they heard a woman describe this horrible tragedy by saying: "You know what it feels like to sell birth control? Ya, my rape was JUST LIKE THAT."

I am not joking... Fox News and their viewers have serious mental issues. They compare EVERY minor inconvenience to rape. "I have to provide birth control... STOP RAPING ME!" or "I have to sit next to someone I don't like... RAPE!"

If you can watch this network and not have a problem with this, then you are seriously f***ed-up in the head.

No Feisty, don't change your avatar, it makes it so much easier to skip over your posts, since they are guaranteed to be inflammatory or no value.

correction, it was post 1.23 by dennis not 1.33

most of the First Read posters apply to this statement:

"I see stupid people and they do not even know they are stupid"

many are no more than "blind mice" for their party BS and lack the ability to state anything but the party line, sooooo funny;o). I find it funny to see t he same posters who blamed Bush for high gas prices now stating it has nothing to do with our current president.

Both parties and their blind followers are a sight to behold. last election, I called Obama's victory; even with the GOP primary circus- I do not feel like it is certain that Obama will win. If the economy improves, he improves his chances, if it turns sour; even with all the blame game, the prez may get the boot.

why have there been little questions about the improving job numbers that the Rep House said would take place after the 2010 election?? The Dems were very critical in 2011, but quite as a mouse now. is it possible that some mfg and small business owner is sensing a shift in party power or is it the natural course of correction?????

I have had my laugh for the day, have a good weekend all.

Nasty Feisty.... is competing for a seat at Bill Mahr's writer's table... About the same level of diarhea coming from her posts as he spews on his HBO weekly freak forum.

Go ahead 'lil lefty piggies... collapse this one!

Right on, willowbrook!

MAW --

Many thanks to this Administration for putting forth a proposal on corporate tax reform. They did this with the understanding that it is a starting point. In other words.... Let the talks and negotiations begin so that real reforms get done. Of course the initial reaction to the initial proposal is a bunch of pissing and moaning from those that stand to lose either a tax benefit or subsidy. As the article in the WSJ titled, Obama Proposal Gets Pushback, by Damian Paletta and John D. McKinnon stated:

The White House's proposal to overhaul the U.S. corporate-tax code by lowering rates and limiting deductions faced immediate resistance from business groups and many Republicans, with critics alleging it favored some industries while penalizing others and failed to go far enough in cutting taxes. ........

......Despite the initial headwinds, administration officials vowed Wednesday to try to negotiate with Congress in the months ahead. The White House held back on many key details of the proposal to leave room for talks.

Of course those who are unhappy are those whose effective rates have been fairly or unfairly quite low. Below is a list of the effective rates paid by each industry according to a chart listed in the article.

Effective actual corporate tax rate by industry

Utilities - 14%

Mining, leasing - 18%

Transportation, warehousing - 19%

Agriculture, forestry - 22%

Real estate - 23%

Insurance, information - 25%

Manufacturing - 26%

Finance - 28%

All services - 29%

Construction, retailing - 31%

Guess who is complaining the loudest? Proposals are a start to negotiations. Finally, something might get done on this important issue. Next they can move on to individual income tax reforms. Hallelujah! You gotta start somewhere!

Did anybody watch Bill Maher's livestream stand-up show on Yahoo last night???

MGates23 (post 1:65) - Your answer was ultimate Truth!

I speak with human eloquence and angelic ecstasy but don't love, I'm nothing but the creaking of a rusty gate. ²If I speak God's Word with power, revealing all his mysteries and making everything plain as day, and if I have faith that says to a mountain, "Jump," and it jumps, but I don't love, I'm nothing. ^3-7If I give everything I own to the poor and even go to the stake to be burned as a martyr, but I don't love, I've gotten nowhere. So, no matter what I say, what I believe, and what I do, I'm bankrupt without love.

- Love never gives up.
- Love cares more for others than for self.
- Love doesn't want what it doesn't have.
- Love doesn't strut,
- Doesn't have a swelled head,
- Doesn't force itself on others,
- Isn't always "me first,"
- Doesn't fly off the handle,
- Doesn't keep score of the sins of others,
- Doesn't revel when others grovel,
- Takes pleasure in the flowering of truth,
- Puts up with anything,
- Trusts God always,
- Always looks for the best,
- Never looks back,
- But keeps going to the end.

¹³And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is LOVE. --1 Cor 13

Clearly the Evangelican Christian GOP have not only abandoned this principle, but hellbent each day to live in direct contradiction as they judge and cast stones at everyone else! Pure Hypocrisy!

David walker...

Interesting post 1.9 and an good video to watch. However...

It's not that our education system has failed. It's how we view education itself. How did we ever allow ourselves to believe that our education begins at five or ends at 18? What makes us believe that every child, each of whom is different, each of whom has differing support, learning ability, temperament, and so on is ready for kindergarten at the age of five? It's ridiculous on its face, and yet we barely question the notion. Indeed, it's clear we have confused going to school with receiving an education

Your first sentence belies the remainder of your paragraph. If our education system hadn't failed then the rest of your paragraph (except the last sentence) wouldn't hold water. No doubt your last sentence reflects how many veiw education today and your reference later on education being a continuous process from birth to death is spot on. That education is indeed a continuous process is valid and goes to the core that k-12 education and parents don't emphasize or encourage it enough.

Lebron james had a PSA commercial out recently highlighting the drop out rate of students in HS to the tune of 7000/day. Pretty much points to four basic reasons here. The schools failed to instill the value of a fundamental education for the dropouts to want to be productive, the parents/students don't care, peer pressure or society doesn't care.

All in all one of the few posts you make that i can basically agree with.

...our Electoral College scorecard has gone from 196 D vs. 195 R (with 147 toss-up electoral votes) back in November, to 227 D vs. 197 R with (114 toss-up).

I'm lovin' it! :)

Paris, perhaps just a separation of church and state? Regardless, what man isn't a sinner in the eyes of the God of the bible or koran?

Larry (post 1.103) - blame anyone but the left, right? LMAO! Might as well go back to the 30's and negate all policies going forward.

BTW - even today I don't recall anything in the new testament recommending any type of an organized religion or that an organized church be attended. That was man's doing.

Feisty, Bev, all,

Let's not forget FOX noise's credentials. "FOREIGN owned". (Great source to follow for Americans. )

Fox sued all the way to the Supreme Court to say that intentionally lying in a news story that is commentary is protected by the 1st amendment.

Oh hell! there is too much to even take the time to write. The dumb F*X that watch FOX will still stand up and defend this foreign owned news source that wants to destroy America and the Democratic Republic that it has always been.

Go figure, huh?

many are no more than "blind mice" for their party BS and lack the ability to state anything but the party line, sooooo funny;o).

Wow... a Repub blindly following the GOP, complaining about Dems "blindly following" a party line.

At least you find your own hypocrisy "funny". Because if you can't laugh at yourself, then who can you laugh at?

skipn nicholson - still to early for proclaiming victory. Discounting a strong third party bid, the results today are still 50-50. aka 50% chance that obama loses.

Hate to burst all you Obamanation's bubble, but the so called map has exactly ZERO credibility

Check out Maine (ME) - Listed as "Solid Dem". Also listed as "Heavily Dem" and "Leaning Dem".

Maine? Seriously?

The "Live Free or Die" State? Democratic. Really.

Lols for days!

You guys are only kidding yourselves.

PS to Navy - I'm no fan of fox, but for you to call them foriegn owned is pretty hypocritical. MSN ownership traces back to GE, and if you look further into majority ownership, it's a Shiek in Saudi Arabia. True story bro.

willowbrook - what? as opposed to yours which are totally irrelevant?

Alil - Fox is 70% owned by the Saudi's.

OBAMA isn't even qualified to be President. There is still a question about his birth and every liberal on the planet just ignores it. Who says he's qualified when he can't even produce an original birth certificate! He should never have been president. Not only did he slip into the Presidency but he completely sucked once he was there!

never pay avatars much attention. I have seen it several times and couldn't read the top part as it is too small. All i see is dumb fux. Which is a take on a lewd saying .... dumb fuc_s. I never really find it all that impressive to call anyone names with curse words, buy hey, if that is your thing ...

Very true BigATC... There are actually some decent posters on here (both sides) but you have to slug through all the slime that some post because they lack intelligence to carry on meaningful conversations.

Unhappy,

It's easy to ignore an issue that doesn't exist, No matter how many dimbulbs howl this same crapola. (Would crapola have 2 p's or one?) Either way it's still crap.

seeking sanity, the saudi prince ( the one worth 20 Billion) has a 7% stake in news corp. Murdoch clan has about a 40% ownership. Followed by invesco. JPMorgan, Goldman, Bank of NYMellon, Blackrock are some just under the prince.

Please, please tell me we are not going back to these demonstrably false arguments:

"Barry and his crack team WILL have access to your bank account under Obama-care AND illegals will be covered too."

and the ever popular: "OBAMA isn't even qualified to be President. There is still a question about his birth and every liberal on the planet just ignores it. Who says he's qualified when he can't even produce an original birth certificate!"

Please.

What does it matter how the map looks today, tomorrow, next week, next month? By the time November comes, there will be enough red states to boot the jackass out of office. ABBO in 2012!

omg, you are really living in another world, he has produced his birth certificate and even The Donald knows that, ha ha. As a matter of fact, it must be produced when running for President. And you say the Liberals just ignore it, well there are conservatives in government too, and they know he is an American, come on now.

unhappy - are you really going there? The birth certificate? Really? Anyone with a brain knows President Obama was born in Alaska. Oh sorry - the brain thing - that explains it!

Sweet. We hit the jackpot. Apparently the anti-Obama right-wing propaganda that the GOP is spewing doesn't appear to pan out with Americans. I wonder what prompts right-wing commentators like Joanna and Brian to keep on spouting something that is both false AND offensive???

Ah, David. It's always a pleasure to comment with you. I have always wondered where you get your Aristotle-like knowledge. I do not know whether many Americans are barely literate, but what I can tell you is that our education system is busted. I have many ideas for reform, like paying teachers more. What I can tell you, is that students today are not as proficient as they used to be. Believe me, I know.

Oh and David, I was able to read that paragraph.

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

Larry - the books were not banned, but rather not included. This is because the Apostle John left instructions as to what the Bible is and isn't. The 66 Books contain prophecy and fulfillment of prophecy. The Apocrypha contains no prophesy or fulfillment of prophecy. it is simply historical in nature. There are a few references to historical events in the Apocrypha. For the longest time one of the differences between a catholic and protestant Bible was that the Catholic Bible included those five omitted books.

Hey Feisty - Your avatar is GREAT.

I always thought that the only folks who watched Fox were fumb duckers anyway, including Newt, by far the sleaziest fumb ducker in the whole Union.

@ SeekingSanity - I see you're in the same la la land Feisty is. It is no wonder you would find my posts, based on the real world experience and facts, irrelevant. Not that I care. "Ivory tower" yo yos like you two will not make my life, or those in my state better. It would only make things worse than they are now. Thank God I'm on the side of those who want a better country than we have now and not on the side of people like you, who are shoving us down the road to ruin.

The similarities between Obama vs Romney and Carter vs Reagan are amazing.

In 1980, were were suffering from high unemployment, weak leadership and excuses on why the economy was a disaster, and when Reagan was elected, big changes were made, the size of government was reduced, unneeded regulations were reduced, American ingenuity was unleashed, and within a few years, the economy was soaring again.

Let's hope that the same thing happens in 2012 - A weak, ineffective President is replaced by a strong leader that turns the country around after 4 years of drifting and 'malaise'.

"Larry - the books were not banned, but rather not included."

A lie. Many original books...many of which were at least as valid as the current gospels...were banned and burned in an effort to eradicate them. The Gospel of Judas is an excellent example. The efforts to eliminate the existence of these books was intended to rid christianity of Gnosticism and other so-called heresies that would compete with the early catholic church.

Ah Roy, sorry to rain on your parade, but you have made a grave mistake. In case you have not heard, unemployment is going down, the economy is improving, and the only weak leadership in Washington is coming from the self-centered uncompromising Teapublicans in Congress.

And let me tell you the TRUTH about Reagan. Reagan did reduce the size of government. In actuality, he spent billions on defense and tripled the national debt. In addition, Reagan introduced the concept of supply-side economics, which has weakened our economy through massive debt, income inequality, and deregulatory policies that let Wall Street cause this recession. Yes, the economy improved, but it also did under Clinton; in fact, Clinton's economy was much better than Reagan's. And in case you didn't remember, the economy under Reagan did not improve until 1984, the election year. Unemployment was high, but it was going down, and the economy was improving, like it is now. This election year seems more like the 1984 election, when Reagan won due to an improving economy. And Romney is the real ineffective, for if he wins he will be beholden to the Teapublicans. And even if he can get his policies through, they will be cutting billions from the budget while giving millions in tax cuts to the wealthy while the middle class shrinks due to more deregulation, more cuts to spending, and more trickle-down economics. Hopefully the same thing will happen in 2012-where the American people will give this relatively successful President a second chance like we gave Bush a second chance, and how he failed America. Romney is weak, he cannot stand on a platform without changing it. And over the past 3 years the economy HAS improved; check the Dow, GDP growth, even ask the economists. Most of them agree that the stimulus worked. You can have your own opinion about the President, but his policies have helped us out. That is not an opinion, that is fact. Ask any nonpartisan economist. And lay off the GOP kool-aid. Seek the truth, Roy, for the truth shall set you free.

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

January 20, 2013-End of a Republican't error.

Alil Common Sense, Fox News is owned by Rupert Murdoch. The last time I checked he was a British Citizen. So Fox News is owned by a man who CAN NOT vote in any U.S. election. That G.E. owns MSNBC is no surprise Rachel Maddow has said that several times. Far from the redrawn election map not having any credibility what I see todays GOP doing is trying to lie its way to the white house.

I am center left Republican moderate. I had to vote GOP in the primary. There was no line when I voted for Newt for the first and last time in my life. No line. That tells me that the majority of independents like myself are not thrilled with what the GOP is offering for President. That tells me the GOP is scared of losing and losing big in 2012. My straight Democratic vote in November will be one of many nails in the GOP coffin in November.

What would it take for me to vote within my party in November? Abraham Lincoln or a man like him. O'bama is the only person of Lincoln's caliber running this year. If Lincoln were alive today he would be a Democrat. Wake and smell the coffee, you are going down with a sinking ship unless the GOP lets moderates have a say again.

Firstly, thank you for calling it fux and not fox. After what murdoch did to that station after he purchased it, I really wish he'd change the name to stop giving a bad name to foxes. Unless you're a rancher or a farmer who suddenly gets really offended over the fact living things need to eat, you'd see the majority of the animals are just cute and nice, curious and generally not threatening unless rabid.

Secondly, I really hope the republican primaries last this long in the future. Of course any opponent is going to win when we have a year-full of the three stooges. At this rate I'm surprised they're not reporting record party switching. Gingrich? He was a joke and clinton's lap dog and not much has changed. Santorum? He makes sarah palin look like a scholar. Romney? "I'm common folk, like you! I only own 4 golden limousines. If I win, I promise to make readily available movable printing type press; so you unwashed masses, too, may be educated." The only person we're missing from this laugh-fest is dog the bounty hunter.

Lots of comments about high gas prices, and how much is Obie's fault. It is true that Bush took a political hit over high prices, and republicans are itching for the same to happen to Obie - anything less is just hypocrisy, right? But there is a difference: Bush the Oil Man famously said in his first campaign for president that he would indeed lower oil prices, by going to the middle East and 'demanding that they open their spigots'. So when he went over there and kissed the Saudi king's butt and got nothing out of it - well, Americans were not impressed. Obie made no such 'over the top' claims, for good reason. He talked about a long-term approach with long-term benefits. Holding him to his own standards (and even to Republican standards), he's doing pretty well. Here are a couple snippets from an AP article on Gingrich's 30 minute ad on energy policy (parentheses are my comments):

"Presidents often get blamed for rising gasoline prices but can't do much about them because the price is set by global markets..." (Oh yeah, free markets. Forgot about that.)

"Gas prices follow oil prices, and oil prices have been rising. The price of the foreign oil that's imported by most U.S. refineries and turned into gasoline and other fuels has risen 11 percent so far this year, to about $119 a barrel, because of tensions with Iran, a cold snap in Europe and rising demand from developing nations. Oil produced in the U.S. and used by refineries in the middle of the country to produce gasoline is up 4 percent to about $103 a barrel, 19 percent higher than a year earlier. No presidential "big idea" can reverse those forces.

"...the energy information agency data show production has surged in the first two years of the Obama administration after being on a downward trend since 2003. In 2008, prior to Obama taking office, Gulf oil production hits its lowest level in a decade." (This is regarding offshore drilling)

Bush set himself up for failure by overstating his ability to lower prices, in order to get elected. Obama didn't. Instead, he and the Dems increased domestic production and began funding long-term alternate energy development. So there's a pretty big political difference, even if the pain at the pump is the same.

alex cali "The National Debt as of 09/28/2001 = $5,807,463,412,200.06 ... as of his last budget year 09/30/2009"

I hate to break it to you, but Obama took over on January 20, 2009, not 9/30/2009, and there was no Bush Budget for 2009 - the Democratic Congress forgot to pass one. Here's the truth about the 2009 Deficit - which was all because of Obama;

For those who like to claim that Bush was responsible for the huge increase in spending for 2009, consider this;

'On September 30, 2008, President George W. Bush signed a continuing resolution (H.R. 2638) that would fund at current 2008 levels the budgets of various federal agencies until March 6, 2009.'

In other words, Bush only approved spending at the same level as in 2008. This was because the Democratic Congress refused to consider Bush's proposed Budget for 2009, or pass a Budget of their own. Once Obama took office in January, 2009, Obama quickly passed the $860 Billion 'Stimulus' bill and the $400 Billion 'Porkulus' bill (despite his 'No Pork' pledge). On March 11, 2009, Obama signed the actual Budget for 2009. The result was a huge increase in spending and Deficit for 2009.

The spending level for 2008 (Bush) was $2.983 Trillion.

The actual spending for 2009 (Obama) was $3.518 Trillion, an increase of $535 Billion (18%) - All by Obama.

Sourcehttp://hr.cch.com/news/hrm/101508a.asp

Gee, those 'Inconvenient Truths' certainly do get in the way of a perfectly good 'spin', don't they?

Freshieee "Ah Roy, sorry to rain on your parade, but you have made a grave mistake. In case you have not heard, unemployment is going down"

Yeah, it's gone 'down' from 7.6% when Obama took office to only 8.3% now.

Snakebone,

A very concise and astute post concerning rising oil prices.

You also bring up the fact that domestic oil production has increased during the Obama administration, so often overlooked in the republican debates and most political discussions.

Amazingly, these facts are very easily researched on the Internet,,,,,,,,,,to those of us that base our discussions on fact as opposed to political rhetoric.

DW Brown "You also bring up the fact that domestic oil production has increased during the Obama administration,"

Only on State lands outside of the jurisdiction of the President, and for Federal permits approved under Bush. Permits on Federal controlled lands are down over 30% under Obama.

Try giving credit where credit is due. It would be like giving credit to Nixon for putting a man on the Moon because he was President when it happened. It was Kennedy that made the decision to go to the Moon and provided the approvals.

Roy,

In another post, you made the point that filling for a permit takes 5yrs.

Assuming that is true, Why was 2008 the year that had the lowest domestic production?

Roy,

Consider this;

According to the BLM, there are 6,500 drilling permits that were issued up to May 2011 that sit idle.

So it isn't Obama's fault if there isn't more drilling on federal lands, that blame falls on the Oil and Gas Industry.

Actually, I'm rooting for the Republicans on the gasoline issue. Blame Obama a lot - be as harsh as you can. Make up all the 'facts' you can.

Gasoline prices historically fall after Labor Day - just before the election. The more Obama is blamed for gas prices as they rise - the more credit Obama will receive when they fall.

The Republicans are only going to give Obama another win!!

You guys are wrong about the birth certificate.

Over 40 lawsuits and he has still not shown it in any official capacity. Not ONCE.

McCain was a war hero, both his parents were US Citizens, but he was born on a military base in Panama.

WE HELD CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS ON WETHER HE QUALIFIED AS A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.

Objectively, it makes no sense whatsoever to hold Obama to a different standard.

All he has released is a digital image.

Scan your liscence into your ipad or laptop.

Now go try to buy beer with just that image.

Doesn't work, does it.

If any part of your dishonest, ignorant rant was accurate, I would expect the GOP would be all over our President like stink on your pillow, but they are satisfied that President Obama is a natural-born citizen and so should you. It is only the right wing lunatic fringe that is still sniveling about it.

If all you have are rumors and lies, then Obama should have no problem walking over your kind on his way to his next inauguration.

Ahh, Roy, you're not telling the whole truth. Yes, unemployment was at approximately 7.6% when Obama took office, and yes, it is 8.3%, a net loss of about 0.7%. However, Obama got to office DURING the worst of the recession, where 700,000 people a month lost their jobs and GDP slipped by huge margins. Unemployment PEAKED at 10% during Obama's presidency, and has gone down to 8.3%. And there have been nearly 2 years of consecutive job growth. Obama reversed the recession with the stimulus and his expansion of the auto bailout, which saved a combined total of 3 million. That is a helluva an accomplishment, and I think the American people will realize how things have actually gotten better over the past 3 years. So yes, things HAVE gotten better.

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

Sailcat, if you are adressing my post, I challenge you to prove that any single part of it is not 100% true.

Alil, and where have those frivolous lawsuits gone............just wondering. Hope it is not a conspiracy.

You are using innuendo, and not proving anything unless you follow up on the lawsuit's......... Reminds me of McCarthy in the 50's.........just saying.

McCain was a war hero, both his parents and all four of his grandparents were U.S. Citizens, that was never in dispute.

We held Congressional Hearings over wether or not he was a "Natural Born Citizen" under the meaning of The Constitution, and wether he was eligible to be President.

Isn't Equality what we all strive for, really?

Everyone who has examined his released digital image has found it to be a fraud.

Let's put it to bed. We all know who could do that, casually, easily, anytime he wanted to.

The President.

Everyone who has examined his released digital image has found it to be a fraud. It's legit as far as I am concerned, the GOP, and the congress, so not everyone is convinced O'bama is foreign born. It doesn't matter where his grandparents or dad was born, it doesn't matter if he was conceived in Nairobi Kenya, O'bama was born in Hawaii.

By any legal standard O'bama is a natural born citizen. He has put that to bed. You are just TOO stubborn to admit it. What does he have to do circulate the long form certificate under foot thick glass, to satisfy you, or do you have to touch it? If you don't like his policies attack those. It is sheer stupidity to continue to attack a document the GOP itself acknowledges as valid.

Alil, why don't you put it to bed, in your mind? It must be because of something other than what most people accept, so you prove it..........

mattpfl, well said. I'll add that with Santorum currently leading, he drags Mitt Romney even further to the right making it nearly impossible for him to ever return close to the middle--too much tape exists.

#1.11 - Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:26 AM EST

Damage123,

A real Christian like statement on your part.

Brianb,

Well, why don't you go home to the FOX site and get your real facts.

Job1--- nah, we go to Fox, first and get the real news, then we come here for the laughs and the daily Socialist Circle and Admiration Society.

Just wait for the effect of skyrocketing gas prices take begin to be felt.

All of those 'moratoriums' on drilling put in place by Obama may come back to bite him at just the wrong time.

Of course, we'll hear a lot of 'excuses' from Obama on how "It's not my fault", but I doubt that voters will buy it.

PS - Obama keeps complaining about the 'rich don't pay their fair share' of income taxes, but now it comes out that 50% of Americans don't pay ANYTHING in Federal Income Taxes - What's THEIR 'fair share' for all of the benefits they receive as Americans?

The total cost of running the Federal government is $3.8 Trillion per year, and there are about 310 million Americans, which means that the typical American gets about $12,000 in benefits from the government (Defense, education, infrastructure, etc.) but pays NOTHING for it, leaving the other half to pay for EVERYTHING.

I have ask - Who's REALLY not paying 'their fair share'?

PS - One last point - Obama likes to rail about the $5 Billion in 'subsidies' for the oil companies (I say just eliminate them), but he doesn't mention the $25 Billion in subsidies he gives to his friends in 'green energy' that have been a huge flop. I say 'Do away with all of the subsidies'.

I would guess that obuma is really in serious trouble for PMSNBC to come out with their latest "poll". The people have seen the dismal failure of this president and now we really want "change".

BrianB

Shouldnt you be out looking for a job?

I hear the Village People are looking for a construction worker

Semper Fi on MSNBC tonight 10/9ET

About the water at Camp Lejeune. Thousand of Navy people were there, also.

My husband, my self and two daughters were there for 13 years. U.S. Navy

It is awful what they did to cover up what this has done to our health.

Jody - why would I do that? I come here for my entertainment. Deflection and purposeful posturing for Obama is surrounding me. It helps keep my edge sharp. Although, it's such a shame that Fox leads the ratings for viewership. Maybe that's why you hate Fox so much... Liberals always hate the winner.

If the topic is Obama's reelection outlook, why is there absolutely no Lamestream Media coverage of the $4.00 - $5.00 per gallon gasoline? Do they really think people are going to just ignore it and vote for the Inept One who is mainly responsible for it?

Screeminglib - What should I do... get in my truck, waste gasoline at $3.65 a gallon, pollute the air while driving around, and miss posting on First Read... you have to be delusional.

Nice try though. I realize libs want conservatives off this board, so they can hip bump each other in their latest cracks against conservatives and the republican candidates... I wouldn't miss it for anything today.

repost: cyber bullies

Good morning Feisty

Fox's Eric Bolling Sings His Blues Song Attacking Obama Over Gas Prices

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/20120223000

ROY WILSON-336103

Just wait for the effect of skyrocketing gas prices take begin to be felt.

All of those 'moratoriums' on drilling put in place by Obama may come back to bite him at just the wrong time.

Roy, another Faux/Republican desperate propaganda you are spreading. Guess what? Gas prices are of course rising due to many factors, including speculation and instability in the Middle East.

And this is a big one:

The number of oil drilling rigs in the U.S. hit a record - it quadrupled UNDER OBAMA in number over the past three years. Between oil and gas drilling rigs, the U.S. now has more rigs at work than the rest of the world combined!!!!!!.

Guess what? Obama is drilling MORE than Bush ever did.

Carrot Top in Drag wants to challenge me. We know who you work for Carrot Top... you are the only person on this board to have her posts restored after the community has collapsed them. I know you have that ability... and can't stand to see your hatred filled posts not in everyone's face. What do they pay you for restoring posts Betty? Minimum wage? Well that can't be too bad since you spend 24/7 trolling these boards.

Tell you what... let's change jobs... you couldn't make it in my profession one day before they'd chew you up and spit you out. Knowing your abilities, you'd build it upside down... Here's a hint for you Carrot top... the roof is always at the top of a building.... ROFL!!!!

Considering the slant both Fox and MSNBC have towards a political party, I almost feel better watching the daily show for "fair and balanced news"

MSNBC, is only is only about truth and accuracy, they never slant nor sensationalize...

Furthermore, let us remember; Obama has single handedly pulled us out of the great recession, “America is back”. He has paid-off the Trillions of national debt accrued by this country, stopped the housing crisis – foreclosures, and solved our healthcare /insurance /banking scams or problems for the United States. There is no crime or gang violence… no more hunger in the US. He's so remarkable with World Aide, and politics; I personally believe that he’s the best President we’ve ever had the honor to serve, he’s perfect! Yes, better than Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt... he’s so amazing! I wish we could serve him for ten, no twenty more terms as he’s the center of change and good!

Carrot Top in Drag wants to challenge me

Yeah - I do!

Are you going to give us a source to your claim or tuck your tail between your legs & run again?

Maybe, you can give us a source where Democrats signed a pledge (that overides their OATH to office) to George Soros...

Any pledge to Soro's would be sufficient...

Brianb-999431

Wayne said: Relax Brian. It is a solid fact that republicans democrats are owned by Norquist Soros. They signed their souls away to him. If you don't like it here go back to fox Chris Matthews.

Two can play that game Wayne.

#1.28 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:52 PM CST

It helps keep my edge sharp.

You are as sharp as a rusty disposable razor! ;o)

When I look at the polling map of the US (and political acrimony), I am becoming more convinced we are NOT one nation, under God which shares common values, beliefs and principles. Perhaps we should begin to think about another form of government, similar to Canada, and divide into two Provinces. The differences are becoming so stark between and among states (RED, BLUE) that we should face up to this reality and start to think about dividing along the lines of those who want a more socialized form of government (bigger government, more hand-outs, more taxes, etc.) and those who want more individual freedom/liberty (smaller government, more individual freedom, less taxes, less government services, etc.). You can't have it both ways! The present polarity in the US is so stark and so irreconcilable, that is pure folly to think we will ever agree on one person to lead this country...as soon as one gets into office, the other side begins its attack mode. I am sick of all the acrimony, bickering, division, and ineffective government that results from this polarity. If anyone thinks this condition is going to improve anytime soon, I would suggest that you have been living on another planet for the past 30 years.

bayllie "Guess what? Obama is drilling MORE than Bush ever did."

Since permitting takes about 5 years, you're giving credit to Obama for things that happened under Bush.

Nice try, though. Do you REALLY think that Obama shutting down drilling in the Gulf will not affect gasoline prices in America. If so, I have some great swampland - er, 'waterfront' property that I can sell you cheap - sight unseen.

There is, for all practical purposes, nothing government in general and the President in particular, can do in the short run to reduce gasoline prices, short of nationalizing the industry or implementing price controls. It’s idiotic to think otherwise. Last time I checked, we had a market economy. That means the government stays out of pricing of commodities. For thirty years we’ve been reducing subsidies to ag, steel, textiles, mining, etc. preferring to let the free market determine price and availability. Well, if you want to lower your gasoline bill in the short term, you’ll have to be willing to give up on the market economy. Are you willing to do that?

If you want to place blame, place it where it belongs, on us. We’re the ones that didn’t demand rational energy policy in the past. We’re the ones that let ourselves become dependent on foreign crude. We’re the one’s that could have demanded our leaders implement policies that favored energy consumers over the oil industry lobby.

Now the oil industry has grown into an uncontrollable monster, devouring middle class wealth, and we have no one to blame but ourselves. We saw it coming and failed to do anything about it.

I am continually being amazed at the huge number of people who actually prefer to believe a nice lie told by a certain celebrity over accepting the facts and the truth.

When told the facts, they go bullistic! Makes one wonder if they're actually mentally ill. One thing is for certain, they're totally intolerant toward anyone who 'dares' to disagree with them.

They must be young and immature because only the young and immature they think they know everything.

Amazing how liberals always decry war... yet view their agenda against America exactly as that.

"The map and the changes on it are based on the public and private polling we’ve seen, as well as our conversations with operatives studying the battlegrounds."

Dear msnbc,

"The labor market and the economy have improved"????? REALLY????

Let me help you with some of your information, you pathetic leftist hacks. At this rate, the economy will be fully back and recovered in about 20 years. THATS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Thanks for that brilliant insight into the numbers on your part, I'm officially dumber for it. What kind of BS are you trying to sell???

Maybe all of you up in your "Eiffel Tower" with a Martini in one hand and a Cuban in the other, looking down on the rest of us actually working on a daily basis, think that things are better. But out here in the real world, it is NOT getting better with any real, tangible effect. And feel free to tell your "puppet" Obama he better get his head out of his rear end and fix the price of gasoline, or Pee Wee Herman could beat him in an election.

I'm sick and tired of media that reports with political slants either way. REPORT THE FACTS WITH BACKUP, STATS, AND PROOF FOR A CHANGE. We're all smart enough to come to our own conclusions of what is really going on.

REPOST CYBER BULLIES:

Way to go Bev.

BB: HOLY COW!!! Who would have even thought NBC would manipulate the election map in Obama's favor... SHOCKER!!!

Yahoo did the same thing the other day. The media is getting ramped up early in their support for The Obama. You get a bunch of Libs in a room picking a winner 9 months out and lo-and-behold, they come with Obama! Stunner.

You're right BB, lets see them pick a few winners in the horse races today, and we might start to believe them.

Beverly in Chicago - Good post.

This is why Gingrich will never be president. Without fail the GOP day to day just keep proving they have not the intelligent level to run this country... other than straight to h e l l.

I'm still waiting for an apology from Bush for starting a war based on lies that have killed thousands of Americans, innocent children, women and men.

It's 2012... I'm still waiting. Bush apologize to America and the World.

Republican switched to Independent and voting a straight Dem Ticket 2012.

The latest numbers must just warm the cockles of the GOP's little heart. (the one they share between them)

kc simple man - At this rate, the economy will be fully back and recovered in about 20 years. THATS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

And if the McCain/Palin had won the election it would have been "fully back and recovered" in MAYBE 100 years. If any of the GOP candidates are in the White House next term, it will be 500 years.

How do I know? That's how long the Dark Ages lasted.

NOTE TO GOP: Quit bitching and start rowing.

Oh Jack .. talk about AWKWARD!! I had a few martinis last night and I woke up to Gilda the goldfish at my feet, Carol the cockatoo nestled between my knees, Fawn the fern at my head, and a moronic Ox snuggled along my backside. Darn those pandering liberals for allowing that to happen. I feel so victimized by the actions of those crazy liberals. I think I better go looking for a job today.

Nice try MSNBC, but Obama will not carry Wisconsin. Too many looking at our neighbor to the south. Yes, the dems have the noise but they don't have the numbers.

ROY WILSON-336103

Since permitting takes about 5 years, you're giving credit to Obama for things that happened under Bush.

so Roy, I don't care if they applied 25 years ago and got the permit APPROVED today it is still under Obama. I don't care when they applied for the permit (highly irrelevant) - I care when they got it (extremely relevant). And I care if we are drilling more or less, and we are drilling more.

A little common sense, Roy...

http://www.bsee.gov/Regulations-and-Guidance/Permits/Status-of-Gulf-of-Mexico-Well-Permits.aspx

Do you REALLY think that Obama shutting down drilling in the Gulf will not affect gasoline prices in America.

From 1999 to 2007, the number of permits issued increased by more than 361%, yet gasoline prices have also risen dramatically contradicting the argument that more drilling means lower gasoline prices.

The point is we are still drilling MORE than we did under Bush, Roy. The price of gas is dictated by Wall Street, and Wall Street takes everything as an exuse to raise prices - especially the instability in the Middle East.

Totally correct KC Simple Man! Did you notice how the poll has Illinois and California listed as " Likely" a Dem state? Likely? If Illinois is not etched in stone Democrat for Obama by now the cookie has already crumbled! See you later Barry," IT WASn't FUN WHILE your b#$%$#IT LASTED"!

Ron Paul in 2012! Make a difference!

In tracking comments on FR over the last few years, it has gone from about 85% positive for Obama to about 65% negative, and if it weren't for Feisty and Beverly from Obama's home state, it would be about 90% negative.

I think that it's a reflection of the 'signs of the times', and I suspect the Obama team is worried.

PS - Since Feisty and Beverly seem to have so much time to 'surf the net', I suspect they are part of the 50% of Americans that get lots of government benefits for 'free', freeing themselves from such things as actually working for a living.

PS - I'm retired, which affords me time to do as I wish, but after working (and paying taxes) for 47 years, I think I deserve it.

I would not want Ron Paul as my doctor never mind as my president. The guy is out there.

IWonder, what is an "honest rape"?

Carrot Top in Drag, AKA Feisty Redhead said:

Are you going to give us a source to your claim or tuck your tail between your legs & run again?

Maybe, you can give us a source where Democrats signed a pledge (that overides their OATH to office) to George Soros...

Any pledge to Soro's would be sufficient...

How about a repost of my remarks Red Betty? I want you to go back and find exactly where I said that democrats signed a pledge to Soros. Come on little girl... repost it. Put your money where your rambling liberal mouth lies.

Leave it to the dumbest redhead on these boards to change what I said and then to ask me to provide a source.... A source to what stupid redhead? I never said what you are claiming. Pull it up.. repost it... and then try to understand what my meaning was... or is that too difficult for that pinhead of yours to comprehend?

You can't find it because it doesn't exist. More on!

Will you look at that?

Roy Wilson finally picked up his crystal ball from the pawn shop...

Stick to writing your comedy routines - you SUCK at prophecies! ;o)

@Bev - GF - these RWNJ's sure have a burr in their saddles about us! lol They don't care much for strong intelligent liberal women!

MSNBC - You can add Iowa to the leaning / possibly Democrat because I'm Republican and every Republican/Independent I know in Iowa will be voting a straight Democratic Ticket.

We are educated and most own our own businesses... we are only upset with our Republican Congress but we are upset with the whole GOP field.

How about a repost of my remarks Red Betty?

Already did - see comment #2.24

Give it a rest BB - lick your wounds and move on little fella!

It's not the first time I have spanked you and no doubt it won't be the last!

Hey - here's an idea why don't you look for a JOB instead of sucking off the Gubment tit? You know... the EVIL unemployment benefits you signed up for?

Gubment BAD until YOU NEED them...

Freakin hypocrite!

Mr. Wilson,

First, the 50% number you cite is for payroll taxes and not income taxes. It's an apples to oranges comparison that includes anyone who doesn't work for wages such as the retired, disabled, and people who make all of their earnings from investments.

Secondly, a lot of what's left out of that 50% who don't pay income taxes are the elderly and people on disability, students, and the very poor who are below the poverty level and don't make enough income to have to pay. These people will not be paying payroll taxes in any case, and do you really want to ask these people who are already having to choose between food, medication, and other expenses to be burdened with having even less net income to scrape by on? The tax gain from these people would be very small in any income gain to the Federal government and we'd probably end up paying more in providing additional services to them because of the increased burden.

Take a couple who retired 10-15 years ago on a single wage earner. Between inflation and medical costs their income is hardly anything in current dollars. Do you really want them to still have to pay more than they've already given back to the country over their lifetimes?

LOL.....

The usual Liberal trolls are really out today. More praise for Mr. Obama even though he does not have any chance for re-election.

• Wait a minute.....Mr. Obama stated: "I DESERVE to be re-elected." Funny, he never mentioned the reasons for re-election since ALL his Domestic and International policies HAVE BEEN FAILURES.

Yeah, re-elected Mr. Obama and the 50% of folks who DON'T pay IRS taxes will swell to 75%. [Ohhhh, here comes the rebuttals (as the one above).]

• Wait another minute.....Mr. Obama continues to state: "EVERYONE has to pay their fair share." when shouting his class warfare speeches.

Some Liberals need to get a job and cease being on-line continuously from their basement.

Great job.....Liberals.

I am seeing the media doing what they always do --- and no, it's noe being liberal. This country has always had the most conservative press and media in the world outside of countries that restrict (censor) content, such as China and Iran. But the media does something much worse than taking sides, which they have every right to do. They try to "make every story a headline" regardless of how trivial it is, and make every political race be "razor close." Polls are easily manipulated to do this. Just changing the nature questions just before a key question can bias a poll. And the people who run the polls (with a handful of exceptions) know exactly how to word polls to get an intended result. They know that the media who commission polls will switch polling agencies if the "results" don't show very close races.

But I started following one particular poll in early 2008 and have followed it ever since. In 2008 it was the only "polling blog" that showed that McCain was ahead in national polling in votes, states, and nationwide for exactly four days (the four right after he announced Palin as his Veep pick.) He nailed virtually all the primaries, the presidential race, and the senatorial races. He did a little less well on the House but was still better than the media polls. The guy's nbame is Nate Silver and what he does is aggregate polls. He takes the raw data from every poll and plugs it into his own model. His model uses very sophisticated statistical analysis but he summarizes it very clearly. In the 2010 elections, he nailed all the senatorial races, the governors, and every House seat except one. As his model becomes more and more tested, it is becoming even more accurate. The guy is simply good --- a little too good --- and the NY Times bought his blog with the provision that the NY Times has first access to his results. The agreement that there would be firewall between his blog and the NY Times, its staff and its editors and owners. I was a little wary, but it actually seems to be working well.

So if you want to see how a political scientist views poll results in a clear, well-explained, and non-partisan way, the link is:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

It really is worth spending a little time with, especially as the campaigns progress and poll numbers start flying like some sort of political shrapnel.

insight iowa

Beverly in Chicago - Good post.

This is why Gingrich will never be president. Without fail the GOP day to day just keep proving they have not the intelligent level to run this country... other than straight to h e l l.

I'm still waiting for an apology from Bush for starting a war based on lies that have killed thousands of Americans, innocent children, women and men.

It's 2012... I'm still waiting. Bush apologize to America and the World.

Republican switched to Independent and voting a straight Dem Ticket 2012.

insight iowa

bayllie "The price of gas is dictated by Wall Street, and Wall Street takes everything as an exuse to raise prices - especially the instability in the Middle East."

Actually, it's dictated by buyers and seller INTERNATIONALLY. Wall Street is just one of many trading markets around the World. Traders speculate when they perceive shortages and bottlenecks, and Obama has provided them with many opportunities with his arbitrary 'moratoriums' on drilling, as well as removing from availability almost all of the rich oilfields off the East and West Coasts, after Bush had proposed opening them up for drilling in areas beyond those visible from land. If you contend that Obama's anti-drilling actions are having no effect, you are not credible.

PS - Your 'link' to the propaganda by Obama's new agency on permits is meaningless because it omits any historical references, such as average permits issued BEFORE Obama too office, and how many permits were NOT issued when Obama put a halt to them.

Carrot Top in Drag: @Bev - GF - these RWNJ's sure have a burr in their saddles about us! lol They don't care much for strong weakminded intelligent stupid liberal women!

I agree with "Carville'. "We can bring America back", or some variable would serve much better. The President is very likely to handily win another term, no matter who the republicans finally run. Having said that though, unless the people really understand the terrible mess the republicans ( with the help of a few democrats) have brought upon this country, then we are all bound to continue the resulting suffering. We must kick the "oligarchical, ass backward republicans out of the congress, both houses. Not that I am that smart at all, but I knew when "lil Georgie Bush" was first elected, the country had not recovered sufficiently from the "Reagan and George HW Bush" era's to withstand his plundering. Accordingly, it will take several democratic administrations, and Congresses to clean up, repair, and refocus this country toward the economic and societal greatness It once held. The reestablishment of a large, strong and viable middle class is central to our whole economic security, and in fact, the security of our republic. Whoever says different is either very ignorant, or within a hairs breadth of being a fool.

Hey Roy -- We get it. You don't like Obama. You do not have to use skewed stats, figures or anything else. Those things may fool some, but not many. You are likely preaching to the uneducated hoping they believe the figures as presented. The ones who do will never vote for this President anyway and I'm sure that didn't vote for him in the last election either. Nothing gained nothing lost for the democrats.

mike-464493 "Mr. Wilson, First, the 50% number you cite is for payroll taxes and not income taxes."

I was careful to note that I was talking about Federal income taxes, but your comment is misleading for several reasons.

Payroll taxes are also paid by the 'rich' who work for a living.

Payroll taxes (principally Social Security and Medicare) are set aside to provide for their retirement and health benefits in the future, so they do not contribute to general government expenditures such as Defense, education, infrastructure, etc.

Perhaps as many as half of the workers who pay no Federal income taxes also don't even pay for their Social Security and Medicare deductions because they get Earned Income Credits to offset even these taxes, resulting in many of them getting more back in 'Credit' refunds than they paid in payroll taxes, so the effective result is that they pay virtually nothing in ANY taxes (Federal Income Taxes or Payroll Taxes).

Here's my theory on the strategy of Democrats - "Make more than 50% of voters dependent on government 'handouts', and they will always vote for the Democrats who keep promising more 'free' stuff" - at the expense of the 'rich'.

If you contend that Obama's anti-drilling actions are having no effect, you are not credible.

Roy, you say not drilling raises gas prices so accroding to your logic drilling lowers gas prices.

so why did gas prices skyrocket (and go down) under Bush if he was so pro-drilling. According to your logic, Bush's pro-oil policies should have lowered the S&*t out of gas prices. You are contadicting yourself.

Thanks for the lecture on the Wall Street - I guess I should have made it clear to you that I was simplifying my post.

@bayllie: You are correct. The price of crude, gasoline, and most everything we use or consume is directly dictated by wall street. International commodities brokers etc, other nations trading institutions etc. are all ultimately driven by Wall street. Chicago Mercantile Exchange is an arm of Wall street. Those who say different are either ignorant or lying. All essentials, such as oil, fuel, gasoline, food, etc are easily manipulated regarding supply versus demand, and prices, more often than not, reflect the effects of that manipulation. I am not guessing here. I know from whence I speak.

kc simple man

Dear msnbc,

"The labor market and the economy have improved"????? REALLY????

Let me help you with some of your information, you pathetic leftist hacks. At this rate, the economy will be fully back and recovered in about 20 years. THATS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Dear kc,

Maybe YOU should open your eyes as well as your mind. If YOU cons had gotten your way, ie. letting the auto industry go under, for example, this country would be in a lot worse shape than it is. Another 7 million people would've lost their jobs along with the resultant loss of tax revenue, consumer spending, etc. So maybe the REAL pathetic hacks on here are YOU right wing extremests who want nothing more than the total destruction of our way of life. I have no desire to see this country dragged back to the 15th centruy the way the likes of Rick S. and the rest of the religious bigots do. No thanks. Maybe we should never have gotten involved in Afghanistan and Iraq fore it seems to have excited the right with dreams of where they want to take this country.

---------------------------------

The winner of this week's Oxymoron of the Week winner is:

Janus 00234

Job1--- nah, we go to Fox, first and get the real news

"Real" news and faux noise. Now that's funny. I shamefully admit that I used to watch a program on FN but it wasn't for the show's content. No, Jane Skinner was HOT!!!!!!!!

Liberals seem to think that anyone that disagrees with your liberal viewpoint is uneducated. Typical for welfare, food stamp, unemployed and riding on the coat tail of the government dole out brigade. Your mantra on this vine exemplifies the blind leading the blind thinking that this media outlet is the only source, when it is so obviously liberal in it's views, always has and always will most likely. Of course your pursuit of fair doctrine is to outlaw all views but your own no matter how immoral and unconstitutional it may be. If you succeed then you will reap what you sow.

Dont_carry_it_all "Hey Roy -- We get it. You don't like Obama. You do not have to use skewed stats, figures or anything else."

When I give 'stats', I almost always give a link to reliable GOVERNMENT sources so people can verify the facts and try to prove me wrong - why don't you try to be the first to prove my 'stats' wrong? Here are a few that might surprise people;

Average Deficits for Bush (2001 - 2008) = $251 Billion per year.

Average Deficits for Obama (2009 - 2012 proj) = $1,333 Billion per year.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals See Table 1.3

Average people working in 2000 (Clinton's last year) = 131,785,000.

Average people working in 2008 (Bush's last year) = 136,790,000, a gain of 5,005,000 jobs.

Average people working in 2011 (Obama's third year) = 131,358,000, a LOSS of 5,432,000 jobs.

Jobs ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.ceseeb1.txt

Liberals seem to be tolerant of everything, as long as they agree with it. If they dont agree, it must be wrong.

Nice logic....

bayllie "Roy, you say not drilling raises gas prices so accroding to your logic drilling lowers gas prices...so why did gas prices skyrocket (and go down) under Bush if he was so pro-drilling. According to your logic, Bush's pro-oil policies should have lowered the S&*t out of gas prices. You are contadicting yourself."

Prices can fluctuate based on events, but let's try this;

The average price for gasoline (inflation adjusted) in Jan. 2001 (Bush takes office) was $1.80/Gallon.
The average price of gasoline when Bush left office in January 2009 (Obama takes office) = $1.84/Gallon.
The current average price for Gasoline is approaching $4.00 per Gallon.

Congratulations on that 'Change we can believe in' that you voted for.

Gotta go now for a doctor's appointment. Bye.

@ Dont_carry_it_all: You caught on to "Wilson" too huh? Wilson tickles me with his goofy, out of context posts and "Marrowsky" numbers. I have to give him credit though, He dazzles the hell out of the ignorant, and those who want to believe his crap. He is one of "Frank Luntzs" prizes. Regards

Roy, you prove my point. Bush took office in Jan. 01 with an unemployment rate of 4.2% and when he left in Jan. 09 unemployment was at 7.8.

Over those eight years he ended up with a net of 1.1 million jobs. That averages to be 137,500 jobs added per year, not month, but year.

Dismal record sorry. I see you have re-worded your stats and again fail to add the Bush stimulus/bailouts to his deficit total. Your figures for jobs are missing the 5+ million jobs lost under Bush after the fiscal year ended in Sept. 08. He was still in office in Jan. 09.

My stats come from the BLS.gov site as well as Factcheck.org who based their stats on data from BLS.gov

Carrot Top again persists in saying:

Give it a rest BB - lick your wounds and move on little fella!

It's not the first time I have spanked you and no doubt it won't be the last!

Hey - here's an idea why don't you look for a JOB instead of sucking off the Gubment tit? You know... the EVIL unemployment benefits you signed up for?

Gubment BAD until YOU NEED them...

Freakin hypocrite!

2.24??? It doesn't say anything like you claim. That goes to show you just how stupid you are Carrot Top. Maybe you need to take a reading class. Maybe you should start over in Kindergarden so you can catch up to intelligent people. Hell, you can't even lie very good.

I really wish you'd try spanking me harder... I can't feel it... and you keep missing.

As far as unemployment benefits go... I'll never see them.. so up your arse with the hypocrite thing. I only reported to keep Obama's numbers in unemployment high. I'd do it again if it happens to me.

After all I have to do my part to expunge this nation of the mistake we've been enduring for the past 3 years... There are other ways to make him look bad and I will do my part every time I can.

By the way Carrot Top in Drag - I see you used your crutch to restore your collapsed post. Funny how yours was the only post restored... even though my post was collapsed with not a single violation to the code of conduct. Amazing how you can manipulate the system to your favor... HYPOCRITE!

I see you used your crutch to restore your collapsed post

You can always tell when BB loses - he quickly pivots to a paranoid victim! lmao!

On top of becoming completely unhinged! ;o)

*popcorn*?

I only reported to keep Obama's numbers in unemployment high

Ah, the true values of a conservative - fudge the numbers, lie on forms, and prevaricate like there is no tomorrow, then tell the liberals they are the Sodom/Gommorah sinners causing a decline in American values.

RedDev - It would be manipulation if I hadn't been laid off from my job... but leave it to all those wonderful compassionate loving liberals to call me a hypocrite because I filed for unemployment. Not one liberal even offered a word of encouragement, or showed a single iota of compassion. Goes to show you where the liberals minds really are. I know, Fuc* all conservatives, their families and they can go to hell, right? And you wonder why those of us on the right can't stand your ideology. The hypocracy drips from your posts because in all reality you are not even close to being compassionate. Compassionate liberals... who ever coined that phrase must have been mentally ill.

I come here for my entertainment. Deflection and purposeful posturing for Obama is surrounding me. It helps keep my edge sharp

I didn't really read this. "It helps keep my edge sharp". This, coming from a knife that can't cut soft butter. Now I've heard everything. . . .

Back in the mid-nineties, Republicans wanted to expand American domestic drilling. The Democrats blocked it, claiming it would take 10 years to see any results. 10 years later, the Republican Party tried again, and again the Democrats claimed it would take 10 years to see the results. 10 years later we have record high gas prices for this time of year.

In North Dakota, surprise, surprise, there is an oil drilling boom. People are back to work and making six figure salaries in areas that were desolate just a few years ago. The Obama administration can't stop the drilling because it is on private land. The Obama administration has, however, stopped drilling on public land.

For all of Barack Obama's talk about wanting to experiment with new energies and get people in battery powered clown cars of the future, all we need to do is go back to Jan. 20, 2011. President Obama's Energy Secretary, Stephen Chu, http://www.redstate.com/williamjameson/2011/01/20/obamas-energy-sec-wants-7-to-9-unleaded-gas-prices/">publicly said he wanted to "figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe." At the time, gas in Europe was $7 to $8 per gallon.

President Obama may be publicly lamenting the high price of gasoline, but privately he and his administration have championed the high cost of fuel to force Americans to change their behavior and get out of cars. Hopefully, come November, Americans will get him out of office.

Carrot Top In Drag said:

I see you used your crutch to restore your collapsed post

You can always tell when BB loses - he quickly pivots to a paranoid victim! lmao!

On top of becoming completely unhinged! ;o)

Loser? Not me... It's losers like you that manipulate the system because you can't stand it when someone collapses your post. I can just see the exasperation on your face when you reload and find your precious post with that little plus sign next to it and the words "comment collapsed by the community." Does your pin size heart break Betty? Knowing there are people out here that want to shut you down? How could they? The audacity of them to take your wonderful words of liberal enlightenment and collapse them.

But never does that bother you because you have the power to restore it. You can force your words upon those that don't want to read them... That's the liberal way... it's your way and NOTHING else!

This is the world we are facing... a world where liberals force their will on everyone else...

The utopia of Betty the dark queen of First Read.... Well FU Betty.

Roy,

The average price for gasoline (inflation adjusted) in Jan. 2001 (Bush takes office) was $1.80/Gallon.
The average price of gasoline when Bush left office in January 2009 (Obama takes office) = $1.84/Gallon.
The current average price for Gasoline is approaching $4.00 per Gallon.

Your point was that the high prices are due to Obama's anti-oil policies ONLY. My point was that is it true, then why were gas priced over $4 (as high as $4.50) during Bush's pro-oil administration. You again, have not explained it and you cannot without admitting that your theory is full of crap.

BrianB .. sorry to hear about your job loss and I wish you the best in finding a new one. I really wish those darn GOP/TP folks elected in 2010 had held true to their campaign promises of JOBS-JOBS-JOBS, rather than focus all there energy into making Obama a 1-term president by obstructing all job creating efforts. Jobs are much more needed over their top priority issues of abortion, contraception, voter restrictions, union busting and religious insurance coverage.

Jack said: I didn't really read this. "It helps keep my edge sharp". This, coming from a knife that can't cut soft butter. Now I've heard everything. . .

So you readily admit that liberals don't offer anything to sharpen that knife... Well I'll be - a liberal that finally admits that the ideology adds nothing sharp to the discussion. Great admission Jack! It's about time you realized that liberals dull everything around them. Amazing!

RedDev - I'll take your post at face value. The GOP aren't the only ones to blame. As much as you feel they are, please consider all sources in government. It's the total climate in Washington - None of them care about the American people. Ideology set aside, the system is broken. It's not getting fixed any time soon, no matter who the controlling party is. And that IS the truth.

Roy wilson - don't forget what the left says about the 50% not paying taxes. "of course they don't pay income taxes, they are poor"

Stand,

I hate to break it to you but Republicans also want bigger Government. They want it in areas that will not help society whatsoever. They want to completely get rid of welfare and then force you to become a Christian by not allowing you to have contraception, abortions, or other actions that go against the supposed morals of their book created god.

Republicans also want to marginalize voters by affording corporations more political power then Us citizens, they want America to become like China in it's pollution factors because they think the EPA is how the devil get's inside of you, they want to make American's stupid by causing education to be a pay to play service where the poor and those who cannot afford it do not get educated.

Republicans are no saints and the reason you think they are is because you swallowed their bait, hook, line, and sinker and are gnashing at Democrats ankles instead of examining the irresponsibility in your own party; which is exactly what the higher ups want.

Democrats are no saints either, they also have their problems. However the Republican's problems cause more degradation of freedoms then the Democrats do over the short term. Democrat's immigration policies have more effect long term but at least they would not force everyone to practice a religion that not everyone believes in like the Religious Right would do if they had the power to do so.

bayliee -- The key to understanding Roy's figures is to keep in mind key words like averages etc. Or look to where he picks his start/end points when he extracts the data from BLS.

Roy -- Why did gas rise to over $4 a gallon under Bush in your opinion?

Dont_carry_it_all

bayliee -- The key to understanding Roy's figures is to keep in mind key words like averages etc. Or look to where he picks his start/end points when he extracts the data from BLS.

I know, he pretends like Bush's average over the 8 years never went over $1.84.

One time Roy showed how average income went up from say 10 years ago (I cannot remember exact numbers without digging through my history) to now. His point was that people had nothing to complain about today because their average incomes went up. The discussion was about how the rich got richer, the middle class stayed pretty much the same, and the poor got poorer. Roy says "no -everyone is better off" and he showed his numbers from "then" and "now." But what Roy did was used "then" numbers of a non-college average income compared to "now" college educated average income. So in Roy's mind, it's all the same.

Roy likes to throw data around but his data always seem to exclude some factors. All and any data can be manipulated to prove one's point but it simply a misuse of statistics by discarding of unfavorable data.

bayllie -- Keep on him! lol ; )

Regards, Mac! ; )

BrianB, If the nation can only see the "Chicago style political septic tank" that President Obama emerged from they wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. The lib's depend on quick mouthed spin doctors that will say anything to get away from the point or answer to a direct question. But this is the thing that they can't b---$--t their way out of. And it comes from an MSNBC Poll, just perfect, that Obama"s home state is only "likely" to go Democrat! He's screwed and they know it! California is another "likely" state, guess the voters aren't to warm and fuzzy about Pelosi either.

Don't carry, the 7.8 january rate was right in the middle of the mortgage meltdown and credit freeze. Month before was 7.3, the only times it was over 7%.

January 08 was 5.0% unemployment

January 07 4.6

January 06 4.7

BigATC -- True. You prove my point. Unemployment went up under Bush. ; ) Roy ignores the months of Oct., Nov., Dec, of 08 and Jan 09, the month Bush left office.

fenderbluesjr - in your dreams - not only is Illinois solidly blue a few of the last red states are now purple - wonder which way they'll go? It's not smart to pi** off the women of the world!

Insight Iowa.

Good Catch. Romney, Paul, and Santorum lead Obama in Iowa according Des Moines Register Feb 19, 2012. The Des Moines Register is one of the Few Media that does not manipulate the results.

Right now we have an extremely volatile voting public. The formulas of the past do not work today. The Pollster that seems ahead of the curve is PPP. I usually like Rasmussen, Gallup, Survey USA too. PPP has been beating them all. Even though they have been the most accurate, they have been overstating Romney 2 points, understating Both Santorum and Gingrich, and seem 2 point over or less than Pauls actual finishes.

What has caught my eye in the last 2 weeks is, suddenly Rasmussen numbers are to the left of the Media Polls. I think Rasmussen re-tooled their sampling criteria and instead of improving their work, have totally botched it up.

Right now, with the boost from Rasmussen's left turn, Obama wins, but just a couple weeks ago, The race was dead even.

Geowill - time for your meds.

bayllie "Roy, Your point was that the high prices are due to Obama's anti-oil policies ONLY."

I made no such statement, merely that Obama's anti-drilling policies have made the situation far worse than it might have been.

As for jobs added under Bush, I refer you to my comments in Post #2.61 (with a government link to verify), showing an average of over 5 million net jobs created under Bush, and an average of 5.4 million jobs lost under Obama.

I think average figures are much more reflective of a President's performance than certain 'cherry picked' dates. For example, would it have been fair to judge FDR based on what happened in December 1941, when the Japanese attacked us?

Dont_carry_it_all "The key to understanding Roy's figures is to keep in mind key words like averages etc. Or look to where he picks his start/end points when he extracts the data from BLS....Roy -- Why did gas rise to over $4 a gallon under Bush in your opinion?"

I use average figures because they are a better gauge of a President's performance than using 'cherry picked' dates to make a 'spin'. I also use beginning and ending dates that reflect when they take responsibility for policies. I also do the same for Obama. That is the most fair way of gauging their performance.

The price got over $4 under Bush because of international events and speculators. It remains to be seen whether Obama's policies will be able to bring it down to where he started - at $1.84 per gallon of gasoline.

I haven't yet calculated the average price of gasoline under Bush and Obama (to date), but I suspect it would make a pretty dismal picture of Obama's stewardship. At the level of usage in this country, the price increase for gasoline alone takes about $240 Billion a year (at today's price) from consumer's pockets - That's going to put a real damper on economic growth in the near-term future.

Here's a clue on how to judge a leader's performance;

A good leader has experts make projections of potential future problems (bottlenecks), which I believe Bush did in pushing for more development of fossil fuels because the experts projected worldwide shortages because of international growth. A poor leader will override logical alternatives because of certain biases, which is what Obama appears to have done by putting moratoriums on drilling, imposing daunting new regulations, and then expecting 'green energy' to make up the difference - it has not worked. Despite his attempts to 'blame someone else', his energy policies have exacerbated the energy problems in this country.

PS - I find it humorous that Obama rails against the '$5 Billion in oil company subsidies', while ignoring the $25 Billion in subsidies to 'green companies' that he has put into place - with virtually no effect. I would be fine with eliminating oil company subsidies (which were to increase production and make us less dependent on foreign oil), but let's also do away with the silly 'green' company subsidies as well.

It's time for my evening laugh at watching msnbc ignore the huge price increase in gasoline prices, and praise Obama for his 'leadership skills'.

Bye

@ Roy Wilson: A shiny bucket with a rusty bottom. Appropriate for toting bull sh^t for all who enjoy bull sh^t.

Mac Forrester

You remind me of the classic Liberal mantra;

"Don't confuse me with facts, my mind's already made up".

bayllie "Roy likes to throw data around but his data always seem to exclude some factors."

Yes, like the extraneous "It's Bush's Fault" that liberals try to use as an excuse for Obama's dismal record. I make valid points pertinent to a subject and then back them up with official government links. Sorry if that's too confusing for you.

The old distraction of "If you can't attack the facts, attack the messenger" doesn't work with people who actually think.

Anyway - it's getting late - Goodnite.

Dont_carry_it_all "BigATC -- True. You prove my point. Unemployment went up under Bush. ; ) Roy ignores the months of Oct., Nov., Dec, of 08 and Jan 09, the month Bush left office."

I don't ignore them - They are counted in the annual average figures that I quote.

Bye

Brianb-999431

RedDev - It would be manipulation if I hadn't been laid off from my job... but leave it to all those wonderful compassionate loving liberals to call me a hypocrite because I filed for unemployment. Not one liberal even offered a word of encouragement, or showed a single iota of compassion. Goes to show you where the liberals minds really are. I know, Fuc* all conservatives, their families and they can go to hell, right? And you wonder why those of us on the right can't stand your ideology. The hypocracy drips from your posts because in all reality you are not even close to being compassionate. Compassionate liberals... who ever coined that phrase must have been mentally ill.

I was actually going to say this but you beat me to it Brian, I am sorry that you got laid off (I lost my job in October too) my brother was killed in a car accident and the place I worked for didn't want to give me the time it would take off ( I was my brother's executor) I hope you find another job soon.

@ Roy Wilson #2.92: And you remind me of the over grown kid who made a passing grade with his multiplication table on 3's, then went forth proclaiming himself a math genius. You are making a complete ass of yourself with your "all over the place" links and averages, supporting very juvenile and subjective conclusions.

In your various postings today I've seen you use these links and averages to both support, and fault "oil speculators", of course, depending on who was President at the time, determined whether there was fault or support. As I have said before; you really are quite proficient in the art of basic bullsh^t. Regards

ROY WILSON-336103

Dont_carry_it_all "Hey Roy -- We get it. You don't like Obama. You do not have to use skewed stats, figures or anything else."

When I give 'stats', I almost always give a link to reliable GOVERNMENT sources so people can verify the facts and try to prove me wrong - why don't you try to be the first to prove my 'stats' wrong? Here are a few that might surprise people;

Average Deficits for Bush (2001 - 2008) = $251 Billion per year.

Average Deficits for Obama (2009 - 2012 proj) = $1,333 Billion per year.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals See Table 1.3

Speaking at a retreat for House Republicans in Baltimore on Jan. 29, 2010, Obama was particularly critical of a question from Rep. Jeb Hensarling of Texas. Hensarling asked Obama, "You are soon to submit a new budget, Mr. President. Will that new budget, like your old budget, triple the national debt and continue to take us down the path of increasing the cost of government to almost 25 percent of our economy?"

"The fact of the matter is," Obama replied, "is that when we came into office, the deficit was $1.3 trillion -- $1.3 trillion. So when you say that suddenly I've got a monthly deficit that's higher than the annual deficit left by Republicans, that's factually just not true, and you know it's not true. And what is true is that we came in already with a $1.3 trillion deficit before I had passed any law. What is true is, we came in with $8 trillion worth of debt over the next decade."

YOU LIE WILSON!!!!!!!!!!

ROY WILSON-336103

Dont_carry_it_all "Hey Roy -- We get it. You don't like Obama. You do not have to use skewed stats, figures or anything else."

When I give 'stats', I almost always give a link to reliable GOVERNMENT sources so people can verify the facts and try to prove me wrong - why don't you try to be the first to prove my 'stats' wrong? Here are a few that might surprise people;

Average Deficits for Bush (2001 - 2008) = $251 Billion per year.

Average Deficits for Obama (2009 - 2012 proj) = $1,333 Billion per year.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals See Table 1.3

Bush left a 1.42 trillion deficit, remember that deficits add to the debt. He left an economy on the verge of total collapse -9% gdp and 750,000 jobs loss when he left.

458 billion deficit for Bush in 2008 per cbo

500+ billion lost in revenue in 2008 per cbo

Medicare part D will keep on growing every year because Bush and co made sure it did not have price controls on drugs being provided. The drug company can raise prices and there isn't anything we can do about it. The government would just pay for it. Frankly i think this was done on purpose to destroy medicare. The Ryan plan will kill medicare and Ryan also voted for part d.

Wars were being paid trough appropriations, Obama made sure they were added to the deficit .

Why do i have to repeat this everyday??????

Remember that next year the deficit is going to be below 900 billion. So he would have cut 520 billion from the deficit and all of this while growing the economy, creating almost 4 million jobs(till now), investing billions into energy that will creates millions of jobs and get us off foreign oil.

I could go on and on and still your @$#@ @$$ would not understand it.

YOU LIE WILSON!!!!!!!

ROY WILSON-336103

Dont_carry_it_all "Hey Roy -- We get it. You don't like Obama. You do not have to use skewed stats, figures or anything else."

When I give 'stats', I almost always give a link to reliable GOVERNMENT sources so people can verify the facts and try to prove me wrong - why don't you try to be the first to prove my 'stats' wrong? Here are a few that might surprise people;

Average Deficits for Bush (2001 - 2008) = $251 Billion per year.

Average Deficits for Obama (2009 - 2012 proj) = $1,333 Billion per year.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals See Table 1.3

The National Debt as of 09/28/2001 = $5,807,463,412,200.06 ... as of his last budget year 09/30/2009 = $11,909,829,003,511.75 ... thats a little better than doubling it, or increasing by $6.1 Trillion

And left a 1.42 trillion deficit for 2009.

YOU LIE WILSON!!!!!!!

ROY WILSON-336103

Dont_carry_it_all "Hey Roy -- We get it. You don't like Obama. You do not have to use skewed stats, figures or anything else."

When I give 'stats', I almost always give a link to reliable GOVERNMENT sources so people can verify the facts and try to prove me wrong - why don't you try to be the first to prove my 'stats' wrong? Here are a few that might surprise people;

Average Deficits for Bush (2001 - 2008) = $251 Billion per year.

Average Deficits for Obama (2009 - 2012 proj) = $1,333 Billion per year.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals See Table 1.3

Since Ronald Reagan they put this country towards destruction.

When Reagan became president, the national debt was less than $1 trillion.

He and Bush Sr. promptly quadrupled it, passing a $350 billion annual deficit on to Clinton.

Clinton eventually balanced the budget, thanks primarily to the Deficit Reduction Act of 1993, which not one single Republican in Congress voted for.

We were on a path toward eradicating the national debt altogether when Bush Jr. became president.

Bush took the projected surpluses and turned them into nearly $6.1 trillion in additional debt, handing a failed economy and a $1.42 trillion (actually more) annual deficit to Obama.

Virtually all of the debt incurred since then (we're past $15 trillion now thanks to Reagan Republicans) has been due to: the effects of the Great Recession, the two botched Bush wars, Medicare Part D (not paid for under Bush), and the two Bush tax cuts.

The Recovery Act REDUCED deficits after it was enacted (see the Blinder/Zandi report).

Get a clue Republicans or you will continue to ruin your own country. Let the smart people continue fixing the mess that Bush and the Republicans made.

For the last 3 decades the rich have bombarded us with propaganda saying that the "next" tax break was going to rescue the country. Thirty years later we have falling infrastructure, failing schools, rampant joblessness, broken social programs, etc.. And the only thing that's changed is millionaires became billionaires.

YOU LIE WILSON!!!!!!

ROY WILSON-336103

Dont_carry_it_all "Hey Roy -- We get it. You don't like Obama. You do not have to use skewed stats, figures or anything else."

When I give 'stats', I almost always give a link to reliable GOVERNMENT sources so people can verify the facts and try to prove me wrong - why don't you try to be the first to prove my 'stats' wrong? Here are a few that might surprise people;

Average Deficits for Bush (2001 - 2008) = $251 Billion per year.

Average Deficits for Obama (2009 - 2012 proj) = $1,333 Billion per year.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals See Table 1.3

George W. Bush inherited a strong economy, a budget surplus, and a nation at peace.

Eight years later, he left Obama with a shattered economy, a 1.42 trillion dollar deficit, and two useless wars.

Obama saved the country from another Great Depression, rebuilt GM, reformed healthcare, reformed Wall Street, doubled the stock market, created 8 straight quarters of GDP growth, created 23 straight months of private sector job growth, got Bin Laden, got Gaddafi, and got us out of Iraq.

YOU LIE WILSON!!!!!

5 posts above and they all prove WILSON is a LIAR!!!!!!!!

And now he wants to blame Obama for oil prices. Go and look at hes history and everything he posts is a lie even though he has been proven many times that he is wrong.

And now he wants us to believe that Obama is making fuel prices go up.

@ Alex Cali: Here here! Thank you so much Alex. Sensible, articulate and factual. Wilson is a republican, who knows the mess that party has made, and what it faces. His links, stats, and conclusions are meant to dazzle the lesser minded and aggravate those who know better. Course I could be wrong. He may be just another crazy who enjoys seeing his posts on a computer screen. I used to get a laugh from his various theories. After a while though, these too became tiring. He offers these outrageous concoctions of supposedly considered meanings, evidently formed within the mental faculties of a one track mind. He is a republican, will defend republicanism at all costs, and disdains democrats. Good to see you call him on some of his basic "claptrap". Regards

Roy is only a liar if you totally are beholden to wrong logic.

Congress is the one controlling the purse strings not the president. He who controls the house in particular (the house of origination of all spending bills) has the most control of spending.

Reagan requested dollar for spending cuts for tax cuts. The House, controlled by Democrats, wrote the budget to feared the Reagan landslide over carter and the loss of the senate, so they gave Reagan the tax cuts, the defense spending and cut practially nothing. The Senate and Reagan combined forced the cuts to One dollar of spending cuts for every ONE dollar of tax cut.

The only power the president has is his executive orders, to which congressional law trumps.

Ignorance must never be mistaken for the truth!

ROY WILSON-336103

As for jobs added under Bush, I refer you to my comments in Post #2.61 (with a government link to verify), showing an average of over 5 million net jobs created under Bush, and an average of 5.4 million jobs lost under Obama.

Roy, not only did Bush increase the size of the government after Clinton, he had 2 wars going on (that Clinton did not have). All that equals jobs, and even if you don't count being a soldier as a job, by leaving to go to wa, they left vacancies. Also, Bush did not have a total financial collapse (yet).

For example, would it have been fair to judge FDR based on what happened in December 1941, when the Japanese attacked us?

So Roy, didn't Obama take over right after the entire financial world imploded here in the US and consequently in Europe and the rest of the world which came back to us again like a Tsunami?

You again are cherry picking events. You aknowledge that unfavorable external events (that presidents have no control over) are excusable ...as long as the president is a Republican.

Mac -- My bad. When I posted to bayllie I left out that very relevant detail -- Roy is a far right republican.

Alex -- Very succinct truthful rebuttal.

Roy -- You said,

I don't ignore them - They are counted in the annual average figures that I quote.

Ah Roy, once again I feel compelled to point out that while your highlighted statement above could be considered truthful, it is not. The only way that it would be truthful is if the annual time period is from January to January. You added Bush's garbage in Obama's annual average.

It really isn't funny how biased this media is. If you go to the top posts and look at all of the collapsed comments it is always the conservative ones. I can be assured if I would like to read a view point other than the left socialist view all I need to do is go to the collapsed comment. Why do you think that is? It is because no liberal really wants to hear the others viewpoint, probably because they don't have an answer for any of it.

bayllie ROY WILSON-336103 "Since permitting takes about 5 years, you're giving credit to Obama for things that happened under Bush.............so Roy, I don't care if they applied 25 years ago and got the permit APPROVED today it is still under Obama."

All of the increase in permits has occurred on State lands, over which Obama has no control. Permits under Federal lands are down by over 30%.

Nice try though.

alex cali "YOU LIE WILSON!!!!!!"

Name one fact that I posted that is a 'lie', if you can.

PS - I'm talking about any actual falsehood that you can support with a link to a reliable government source. I won't hold my breath, since almost all of my facts come from cited government sources. Also, disagreeing on a point does not make something a 'lie'.

Comment author avatarbayllie "So Roy, didn't Obama take over right after the entire financial world imploded here in the US "

Yes, and he said "Elect me, I have a plan to turn everything around". He got elected, with full (filibuster proof) control of Congress, and he has failed - MISERABLY.

One falsehood contained in your posts comes from your statement, "The price got over $4 under Bush because of international events and speculators. It remains to be seen whether Obama's policies will be able to bring it down..." You are implying Bush was not responsible for gas prices in his administration (and he wasn't) but somehow Obama is in charge of gas prices (and he's not, either). Your double standards and double think reveals you to be willing to twist any situation to get the false results you are looking for. That makes your conclusions lies and that, in turn, makes you a liar.

Feel better, Roy?

alex cali

Here are some more FACTS for you to try to disprove - If you can.

What were the Deficits for recent presidents?

Here are the actual figures, according to official government sources (Obama White House);

Total Deficits under Reagan (1981-1988) = $1,339 Billion over 8 years = $167 Billion per year.

Total Deficits under Bush 1 (1989-1992) = $933 Billion over 4 years = $233 Billion per year.

Total Deficits under Clinton (1993-2000) = $321 Billion over 8 years = $40 Billion per year.

Total Deficits under Bush 2 (2001-2008) = $2,006 Billion over 8 years = $251 Billion per year.

Total Deficits under Obama (2009 – 2012Proj) = $5,453 Billion in 4 yrs = $1,363 Billion per year.

Obama's average Deficits are more than 5 times greater than 'big spender Bush'. After seeing what's happening in Greece, can we afford 4 more years of Obama?

Source - http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals See Table 1.3

Dont_carry_it_all "-- Roy is a far right republican."

Actually, I'm neither a Republican nor a Democrat.

PS - I never voted for Bush, or McCain. Too bad Hillary didn't win.

Dont_carry_it_all "Roy -- The only way that it would be truthful is if the annual time period is from January to January. You added Bush's garbage in Obama's annual average."

Excuse me for overlapping Bush's less than 3 weeks of 2009 with Obama's 49+ weeks, but the government issues figures in either an annual or fiscal basis. If you want to go back and recompute all of the annual government figures for that 20 days, be my guest.

Get serious.

Sailcat-2064101 "One falsehood contained in your posts comes from your statement, "The price got over $4 under Bush because of international events and speculators. It remains to be seen whether Obama's policies will be able to bring it down..." You are implying Bush was not responsible for gas prices in his administration (and he wasn't) but somehow Obama is in charge of gas prices"

Nonsense. I never once said that Obama is 'responsible for gas prices', only that his anti-drilling policies have contributed to higher gas prices. Try not to 'assume' things from what I post, as many others do.

Do you REALLY think that the moratoriums on drilling put in place by Obama have not resulted in decreased supply = higher prices? Obama was up-front in declaring that he would like to see higher prices on fossil fuels to speed up the transition to 'green energy' sources, so why is everyone surprised that his policies are having the effect he desired? Unfortunately for him, the timing is bad.

I rest my case, Roy.

Sailcat-2064101

One last point. Isn't it interesting that Obama rails against the $5 Billion in 'subsidies' for oil companies (which were designed to increase domestic production for less reliance on foreign oil), but at the same time he has provided $25 Billion in 'subsidies' for his 'green projects' for his campaign contributors (SOLYNDRA).

We need to eliminate ALL of these subsidies and let the market determine what works and what doesn't.

ROY WILSON-336103

alex cali

Here are some more FACTS for you to try to disprove - If you can.

What were the Deficits for recent presidents?

Here are the actual figures, according to official government sources (Obama White House);

Total Deficits under Reagan (1981-1988) = $1,339 Billion over 8 years = $167 Billion per year.

Total Deficits under Bush 1 (1989-1992) = $933 Billion over 4 years = $233 Billion per year.

Total Deficits under Clinton (1993-2000) = $321 Billion over 8 years = $40 Billion per year.

Total Deficits under Bush 2 (2001-2008) = $2,006 Billion over 8 years = $251 Billion per year.

Total Deficits under Obama (2009 – 2012Proj) = $5,453 Billion in 4 yrs = $1,363 Billion per year.

Obama's average Deficits are more than 5 times greater than 'big spender Bush'. After seeing what's happening in Greece, can we afford 4 more years of Obama?

Source - http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals See Table 1.3

You keep saying Obama the big spender.... Tell me how much Obama has spent since coming into office and on what??? and how much of that has been added to the deficit every year and eventually to the debt???

Also unless congress approves the new infrastructure spending, how much is the deficit next year? how much has Obama brought it down since coming to into office?

I see many people like you posting on here thinking that the Obama stimulus brought the deficit to current levels and that what we are spending every year is because of that.

You guys have no idea how ARRA 09 is supposed to work and how much has been spent till now.

YOU LIE WILSON!!!!!

Ill give a hint Wilson look at revenues for 08

alex cali "You keep saying Obama the big spender.... Tell me how much Obama has spent since coming into office and on what??? and how much of that has been added to the deficit every year and eventually to the debt??? YOU LIE WILSON!!!!!"

There you go again, saying I 'lie' because you disagree with me. Too bad you can't argue the facts I quote, but unfortunately for you, they come from Obama's own White House. To answer your question on spending, you could have merely looked at the link I gave you above, but to save you some adding, here are the FACTS;

Average annual spending under Bush (2001-2008) = $2.396 Trillion per year.

Average annual spending under Obama (2009-2011) = $3.526 Trillion per year, an average increase of almost $1.2 Trillion per year under Obama (about 50% per year).

Deficits under Bush averaged $251 Billion per year over 8 years.

Deficits under Obama have averaged $1,335 Billion per year over 3 years, an increase of over $1 Trillion per year.

Gee, I wonder if that extra $1.2 Trillion per year in spending under Obama has anything to do with those huge $Trillion increases in the Deficits?

Here's that link to Obama's White House to verify;

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals See Table 1.3

PS - Personal attacks are against the Code of Conduct, so try to be civil - if you can. Resorting to personal attacks and profanity usually means you have run out of ideas. You remind me of the typical Liberal philosophy "Don't confuse me with facts, my mind's already made up".

Ho hum - time for a nap

Why are you using averages? When Clinton left 1.9 trillion hes last budget.

When Bush left 3.2 trillion an increase of 1.3 trillion in spending.

For Obama to have spent more than Bush he would need to have a budget of 4.5 trillion dollars???

The highest budget for Obama has been 3.7 an increase of 500 billion. But remember that we had a huge recession. And if the great depression showed us something was that you cant cut spending in a recession. You even had the flip flopper Romney tell an audience that government spending was needed to get out of the recession faster.

Gee, I wonder if that extra $1.2 Trillion per year in spending under Obama has anything to do with those huge $Trillion increases in the Deficits?

Usually i hate calling somebody a liar, but come on man!!!!!

Clearly you failed math.

I wish i could put my hand trough my computer and slap your face to get you to understand what you are saying.

You are completely lying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alil: better keep that day job and leave politics to those who know politics-- Maine went for Obama with nearly 57% of the vote. You know...the place that has gone Democratic since 1992...you know....BLUE???

With projected receipts less than projected outlays, the budget proposed by President Bush predicts a net deficit of approximately $400 billion dollars, adding to a debt of about $11.4 trillion. Actual tax receipts totaled approximately $2.1 trillion - significantly less than the $2.7 trillion expected. The actual deficit in 2009 was $1.4 trillion

600 billion lost in revenue in 2008

Total debt after last Bush budget 11.4 plus 600 billion equals almost 12 trillion and a 1.4 trillion deficit.

You like all government websites how in the f@#$ did you miss this one???????

Average annual spending under Obama (2009-2011) = $3.526 Trillion per year, an average increase of almost $1.2 Trillion per year under Obama (about 50% per year).

Ok lets take your numbers and do some math an average of 3.526 trillion per year for Obama and Bush last budget of 3.2 trillion . Thats only an increase of 326 billion in spending for all of Obama's years. 978 total spending in all of Obama's spending all these years. Less than a trillion Obama has added to the debt. Bush added 6.1 trillion to the debt who is the biggest spender????

Dude i got you..... even by using your own math against you.

I got one question for you what was the last budget for Bush?????

Off course you aint going to answer, because all your math falls apart.

Bush last budget 3.2 trillion

Bush last budget 3.2 trillion

Bush last budget 3.2 trillion

Bush last budget 3.2 trillion

Bush last budget 3.2 trillion

Bush last budget 3.2 trillion

Bush last budget 3.2 trillion

Bush last budget 3.2 trillion

Bush last budget 3.2 trillion

bye bye now!!!!

I forgot to call you a LIAR in my last post.... LIAR!!!!

I bet you aint coming back?????

AVERAGES????? WTF!!! is wrong with you man????

2001
1,991.1 inlays
1,862.8 outlays
128.2 deficits
2,214.3

2002
1,853.1
2,010.9
-157.8
2,027.9

2003
1,782.3
2,159.9
-377.6
1,900.5

2004
1,880.1
2,292.8
-412.7
1,949.3

2005
2,153.6
2,472.0
-318.3
2,153.6

2006
2,406.9
2,655.0
-248.2
2,324.6

2007
2,568.0
2,728.7
-160.7
2,413.1

2008
2,524.0
2,982.5
-458.6
2,288.1

2009
2,105.0
3,517.7
-1,412.7
1,899.0

2010
2,162.7
3,456.2
-1,293.5
1,927.9

2011
2,303.5
3,603.1
-1,299.6
1,998.7

2012 estimate
2,468.6
3,795.5
-1,326.9
2,089.4

2013 estimate
2,902.0
3,803.4
-901.4
2,409.1

2014 estimate
3,215.3
3,883.1
-667.8
2,620.7

2015 estimate
3,450.2
4,059.9
-609.7
2,759.0

2016 estimate
3,680.1
4,328.8
-648.8
2,886.8

2017 estimate
3,919.3
4,531.7
-612.4
3,013.2

Roy - the Federal fiscal year runs from October 1 - September 30 of the following year. Fiscal 2009 Started October 1, 2008. But really Fiscal 2009 wasn't Bush's budget, his was tossed by Pelosi and Reid and they did their own thing including adding an additional $200+ Billion to the budget. Then on top of that to pass Tarp, they added another $150 Billion of giveaways. Even if they had passed Bush's budget, Obama really takes responsibility by adding the Stimulus package to it.

Based on your link we see that Bush last budget for 2009 was 3.517 trillion.

And you say that the average for Obama every year is 3.526

Theres something wrong with your math... so Obama has spent 9 billion more than Bush in all of hes budgets every year????? Dude even i im going to admit that Obama has spent more than that.

So according to your math Obama has added 27 billion to the debt????

Lets look at it a different way

2009 bush last budget 3.517 trillion dollars.... you did know this right??????

2010 Obama budget 3.456 trillion

2011 Obama budget 3.603 trillion

2012 Obama budget 3.795 trillion

2012 Obama budget 3.803 trillion estimate.

3.456+3.603+3.795+3.803 = 14657 / 4 = 3664 trillion dollars average a year

Bush last budget 3.517

Obama budget 3.664 an increase of 147 billion per year over bushes budget.

147 x 4 = 588 billion that Obama has actually added to the debt.

Not including the deficit of 1.4 trillion left by Bush for every year.

What you seem to missing from all of your LIES is "REVENUES" look at them!!! they play an important role in all of the spending and deficits.

Dont forget the recession also.

DB Akron

Roy - the Federal fiscal year runs from October 1 - September 30 of the following year. Fiscal 2009 Started October 1, 2008. But really Fiscal 2009 wasn't Bush's budget, his was tossed by Pelosi and Reid and they did their own thing including adding an additional $200+ Billion to the budget. Then on top of that to pass Tarp, they added another $150 Billion of giveaways. Even if they had passed Bush's budget, Obama really takes responsibility by adding the Stimulus package to it.

Thank you DB!!!!!!! you prove my point that Bush left 3.2 trillion deficit.... 185 billion is for ARRA and the rest about 15 billion according to you was for veterans benefits.

Obama and never passed tarp??????? ARRA??? ANYONE?

Obama really takes responsibility by adding the Stimulus package to it

Obama takes responsibility by adding 185 billion for ARRA to a 3.5 trillion budget???? wow that makes a lot of sense.

I bet you don't even have an idea how ARRA is going to be spent huh? Ill give you a hint.... it will take about 10 years.

Don't worry Roy, Alex Cali just put a bunch of crap down with no reference. Then like you said he cusses and degenerates the cause with insanity. I just thought he had been drinking with all those ????????????????? and !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what a joke.

havin fun yet

Don't worry Roy, Alex Cali just put a bunch of crap down with no reference. Then like you said he cusses and degenerates the cause with insanity. I just thought he had been drinking with all those ????????????????? and !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what a joke.

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???

My reference was WILSON'S website that he posted in 2.119

And ill call you a liar too because post 2.125 is a direct copy of the 1.3 table that i got from the website Wilson posted.

I even posted actual numbers from the government website and you fail to see that???????

what????!!!

is????!!!!

wrong????!!!

with????!!!!

you???!!!!

Looks like you aint having fun?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@ Roy Wilson: You of all people shouldn't worry about "allowing facts to get in the way of reaason". You have never been guilty of either. I'm not going to go to a lot of effort with you here, other than to say; you are a generalized "Liar". Example: Your post #2.109, paragraph 2, "He got elected with a full filibuster proof control of Congress and He has failed- MISERABLY". President Obama has never had a democratically controlled, filibuster proof Congress. I also note another lie contained in your post concerning "permits" for public land drilling. I note another lie in your post #2.114. Face it "Wilson"; you are an habitually liar. These do not account for your false conclusions based on purposeful omissions and/or parsing of facts to gain design for those phoney conclusions. Normally I do not, and would not, respond to your ridiculous claptrap. I am responding now though, in support of both "Sailcat" and "alex cali". They too have labeled you correctly.

DB Akron "Roy - the Federal fiscal year runs from October 1 - September 30 of the following year."

Exactly right. Bush's last fiscal year in office (2008) showed total Federal spending of $2.983 Trillion, and Obama's first fiscal year in office (2009) showed spending of $3.518 Trillion, an increase of $535 Billion, or about 18% - the biggest increase since WW2. Trying to 'blame Bush' for 2009 is silly, because the Democratic Congress never gave Bush a Budget for 2009 to sign or veto. (See Post #1.145).

alex cali"Clearly you failed math. I wish i could put my hand trough my computer and slap your face"

With an MBA in Finance, my math skills are just fine. You need to calm down and take some blood pressure meds. You're making yourself look foolish.

I think it's time to stop this thread, you're getting too excited.

Bye

ROY WILSON-336103

DB Akron "Roy - the Federal fiscal year runs from October 1 - September 30 of the following year."

Exactly right. Bush's last fiscal year in office (2008) showed total Federal spending of $2.983 Trillion, and Obama's first fiscal year in office (2009) showed spending of $3.518 Trillion, an increase of $535 Billion, or about 18% - the biggest increase since WW2. Trying to 'blame Bush' for 2009 is silly, because the Democratic Congress never gave Bush a Budget for 2009 to sign or veto. (See Post #1.145).

alex cali"Clearly you failed math. I wish i could put my hand trough my computer and slap your face"

With an MBA in Finance, my math skills are just fine. You need to calm down and take some blood pressure meds. You're making yourself look foolish.

I think it's time to stop this thread, you're getting too excited.

Bye

They still pass a budget for 2009 no matter what and 3.2+ trillion is Bush's.

MBA in finance and all you come up with is averages???

You know i got you WILSON.... And next time remember that there's people like me and Mac that will prove you wrong.

Hey do they teach accounting when you're getting your MBA in finance????

@ Roy Wilson: And an elective sub degree in "Narcissism" maybe? If you are being truthful I'll bet you subscribe to the perceived accuracy of the "Rahm curve" or even the "laffer curve", which are both, in and of themselves, relative biases, meant to convey and support the biases of preconceived notions.

Nothing wrong with "alex's' math. Nothing wrong with his conclusions based on the math. You have to know how very silly your implication is in your 1st paragraph of your post # 2.132 above. Or maybe, you were asleep.

Mac Forrester " you are a generalized "Liar". Example: Your post #2.109, paragraph 2, "He got elected with a full filibuster proof control of Congress and He has failed- MISERABLY". President Obama has never had a democratically controlled, filibuster proof Congress. I also note another lie contained in your post concerning "permits" for public land drilling. I note another lie in your post #2.114. Face it "Wilson"; you are an habitually liar."

The two 'Independents' vote with the Democrats more consistently than the average Democrat, so virtually everyone considered that a 'filibuster proof' majority of 60 in the Senate. Were you sleeping back then? Where was the 'lie' in virtually all of the increased oil production coming from State lands and permits approved under Bush? If you check the records, you will find this to be true.

Where was the 'lie' in Post #1.114? Every economist will tell you that decreased supply, coupled with increased demand, will virtually always lead to higher prices, and Obama's decision to issue 'moratoriums' on drilling have certainly reduced supply.

Your arguments are vague and illogical. Try again.

Bye - Gotta go to 'Church'.

alex cali "They still pass a budget for 2009 no matter what"

Yes, and it was signed by Obama on in early March of 2009, after he added over $500 Billion to spending.

You seem to have a major comprehension problem in trying to 'blame Bush' for the 'Stimulus' spending, etc. under Obama.

This thread is getting old - Bye