First Thoughts: Tied up in Michigan

Tied up in Michigan: New NBC/Marist poll -- Romney 37%, Santorum 35%, Paul 13%, Gingrich 8%... But NBC/Marist also has Romney with a sizable lead in Arizona – Romney 43%, Santorum 27%, Gingrich 16%, Paul 11%... Organization is helping Romney in both states (see his early-voting/absentee advantage), but ideology is hurting him (Tea Party supporters and conservatives breaking toward Santorum)… General-election numbers: Obama leads in Michigan, but trails in Arizona… Three questions heading into tonight’s GOP debate in Arizona… It’s the 20th of the cycle, and it begins at 8:00 pm ET… And Obama’s corporate-tax plan.

*** Tied up in Michigan: Less than a week before Tuesday’s crucial GOP presidential primary in Michigan -- and before tonight’s debate in Arizona -- a new NBC/Marist poll finds Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum locked in a statistical tie in Michigan, while a separate NBC/Marist survey shows Romney comfortably leading in Arizona. The Michigan numbers among likely Republican primary voters: Romney 37%, Santorum 35%, Paul 13%, and Gingrich 8%. The Arizona figures: Romney 43%, Santorum 27%, Gingrich 16%, and Paul 11%. “Michigan is neck and neck,” says pollster Lee Miringoff, director of the Marist College Institute for Public Opinion, which conducted both surveys (Feb. 19-20).

Paul Sancya / AP, file

A new NBC/Marist poll finds Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum locked in a statistical tie in Michigan, while a separate NBC/Marist survey shows Romney comfortably leading in Arizona.

*** Organization vs. momentum: What’s helping Romney in both states is organization; what’s hurting him is a lack of support from conservatives. Among those who have ALREADY voted absentee in Michigan -- 16% of likely GOP voters, according to the poll -- Romney leads Santorum, 49%-26%.But among those who HAVEN’T voted in Michigan yet, Santorum is up by one point, 37%-36%. The same is true in Arizona: Among those who have voted early or absentee in Arizona -- more than half of all likely GOP voters in the poll -- Romney leads by 30 points, 52%-22%. But his lead is just one point among those who haven’t voted yet, 34%-33%. Call it organization vs. momentum. But while the Romney campaign’s early-voting organization is clearly helping him, a lack of support from conservatives is hurting him. In Michigan, Santorum leads Romney among self-identified Tea Party supporters, 48%-29%, and those who describe themselves as “very conservative,” 59%-20%. Yet among those who don’t support the Tea Party, Romney is ahead by more than 20 points, 45%-24%. The same ideological pattern is true in Arizona, although Romney performs much better with the most conservative voters there than in Michigan (thanks in part to the larger Mormon population in Arizona).

*** Obama leads in Michigan, trails in Arizona: Turning to the general-election race in November, Obama leads Romney in Michigan by nearly 20 points among registered voters, 51%-33%, with 15% undecided. Against Paul, the president’s lead is 22 points (53%-31%); against Santorum, it’s 26 points (55%-29%); and against Gingrich, it’s 28 points (56%-28%). What’s more, 51% of registered Michigan voters approve of Obama’s job; 63% of them believe the auto industry bailout was a good idea (including 61% of independents and 42% of likely GOP primary voters); and a majority think the president deserves credit for the auto industry’s recovery. But Arizona is tougher territory for the president, whose approval rating among registered voters in the state is just 38 percent. In hypothetical match-ups in the state, Obama trails Romney by five points (40%-45%); Santorum by three (42%-45%); Paul by two points (41%- 43%); yet he leads Gingrich by five (45%-40%). Bottom line: Michigan probably won’t be a battleground come November, and Arizona also appears to be a reach -- though the one number Team Obama might take heart in is the fact he ONLY leads Romney 50%-33% among Hispanics in the state… with 17% undecided. But it’s still hard to see how the president gets over 47%-48% in Arizona THIS November.

NBC News' Chuck Todd joins Morning Joe to discuss a new NBC News/Marist poll which has Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum in a statistical tie among potential Michigan GOP primary voters. Yet Romney leads with the state's early voters, and Obama leads Romney by nearly 20 points. Todd discusses what's behind the numbers.

*** Three questions heading into tonight’s debate: The four remaining Republican presidential candidates will gather tonight in Mesa, AZ beginning at 8:00 pm ET to participate in the 20th debate of the GOP race. Here are three questions we have going into the debate. One, will Santorum get sucked into the conversations on social issues? Over the past four or five days, the story surrounding Santorum has been defined by either religion or social issues. (The latest development here: The Drudge oppo-research hit on a 2008 Santorum speech in which Santorum said, “Satan is attacking the great institutions of America.”) Two, will the debate feature the emerging “bro-mance” between Romney and Paul? (The latest examples: Paul’s new TV ad hitting Santorum, as well as his campaign sending anti-Santorum oppo to reporters.) And three, after being largely silent over the last couple of weeks, will we see any life from Gingrich tonight?

*** On the trail, per NBC’s Adam Perez: Before tonight’s debate, Romney holds a rally in Chandler, AZ… And Santorum delivers a speech in Tucson.

*** Obama’s corporate-tax plan: “President Obama will ask Congress to scrub the corporate tax code of dozens of loopholes and subsidies to reduce the top rate to 28 percent, down from 35 percent, while giving preferences to manufacturers that would set their maximum effective rate at 25 percent,” the New York Times writes. Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner will outline this corporate-tax plan today. A couple of points to make here: 1) The White House is refusing -- for now -- to get into individual income-tax reform, because that’s MUCH trickier (you have to eliminate popular deductions, etc.); and 2) The timing of this announcement comes before Romney’s own economic speech on Friday. As NBC’s Garrett Haake reported yesterday, Romney promised “to unveil a more specific economic plan later this week, one that that would integrate his views on tax policy, spending and entitlement reform into one complete package.” It is hard to do corporate tax reform separate from individual income tax reform which is why this White House policy release should be viewed through a much more political prism until and unless we see real details on individual income tax reform.

Countdown to Arizona and Michigan primaries: 6 days
Countdown to Super Tuesday: 13 days
Countdown to Election Day: 258 days

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Santorum belongs in a sanitarium for his comment on theology. How stupid can he be. We will find out tonight....... GO ROMNEY.

  • 1 vote
Reply#101 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:19 PM EST

Here is a question for Ron Paul.

If he became president would he do what the last three presidents have done and grant RETRO ACTIVE IMMUNITY FROM PROSECUTION to Obama for unconstitutionally going to war without a decloation of war, when the Constitution clearly states that no ex-post facto laws shall be passed????????????????

    Reply#102 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:22 PM EST

    When did Obama declare war on anyone?

    • 2 votes
    #102.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:27 PM EST

    That's a very good response, worthy of a answer, but at the moment I have none. The only thing that comes to mind is Egypt, But was that considered a war? I do know that the president can send in the Marines to conduct a police action but no other parts of the military without a declaration of war. But having said that, he did start his presidency by committing a crime by giving Bush immunity for Iraq. So I'm on the fence with an answer to your response. Once again a very good question.

      #102.2 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:42 PM EST

      Class warfare, class welfare, strangling debt for our next generations....war can be a matter of perspective. I have seen the enemy and he is us!

      • 1 vote
      #102.3 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:48 PM EST
      Reply

      To be honest with the last three posters about Ron Paul i would love for him to be on the debate stage with the President that way we can have a role of government debate without all the negativity that will be produced.

        Reply#103 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:24 PM EST

        The GOTP dosen't want contreceptives or abortions. they all want women to shut up and wear burqas and become breeders like the Duggars and die before they can get SS An't going to happen!

        • 2 votes
        Reply#104 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:48 PM EST

        Nope, we want folks like you to live free and continue to breed discontent among your fellow americans.

          #104.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:52 PM EST
          Reply

          Money, power, and cronyism produces the negativity. The media is only the result from that, as they are paid by these puppet masters to write what is in "their" best interests. The ONLY way for our Country to get out of this trend of madness is to vote against the trend. Dr. Ron Paul is the only veteran on that stage. He is the only one that stands up to the BS in Washington "publicly". He is the only one who has been "consistent" in his principles for 30 plus years. Can't you see that the majority of the media goes against this? And who really fabricates these articles? The puppet masters know all too well that Dr. Ron Paul will cause an upset in their New World order plans, so they are are doing everything to hang him. That is why I and many in my own community are voting for Dr. Ron Paul. Years ago when people would mention "New World Order", they were automatically called out as nut cases because nobody ever believed or even knew of this. Dr. Ron Paul was one of the first to exploit this publicly to the nation. Here is only one of the links that demonstrate this, Wake up Americans! I am a veteran and damn proud to have served my country in several hell holes, and I will stand against the TREND an day to set our paths in a better direction. Don't let the media ruin our last chance of FREEDOM!

            Reply#105 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:51 PM EST

              Reply#106 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:58 PM EST

              Since MSN will not allow my link to Youtube, just search Google for

              Ron Paul warns of coming New World Order

                Reply#107 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:59 PM EST

                Here's the winning ticket - Romney for President running with Santorum as Vice President - winning ticket for the Democrats

                  Reply#108 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:59 PM EST

                  Or search on Google (Ron Paul Still Ignored - Jon Stewart Daily Show.flv).

                    Reply#109 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:07 PM EST

                    poor ron paul the gop cant stand him

                      Reply#110 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:16 PM EST

                      Politicians are so worried about offending specific groups that may be beneficial to their election that they tend to forget the AMERICAN citizens - those who are either born here or who have obtained their citizenship legally. While the U.S. has always welcomed foreigners to our shores, those who want to live here need to apply for legal status, abide by our laws, pay their share of taxes. Those companies who hire illegal immigrants need to be heavily fined. They'd soon lose whatever profit they think they're making by hiring people who are here illegally and who'll work for far less. I'm all for human rights, but in the U.S., I'm for the rights of Americans first.

                        Reply#111 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:44 PM EST

                        I wouldn't really mind paying more taxes if I actually got something for it. My neighbor just moved here from Canada with her 4 + million dollar teachers retirement. Must be nice and gas really needs to be 10 dollars a gallon, maybe then the whiny idiots in their SUVs that endlessly complain wouldn't be driving 30 mph over the posted speed limit. Americans are Whiners and it's only a matter of time before someone nails their mouth closed.

                          Reply#112 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:46 PM EST

                          LOL, Now you know that is NOT TRUE....4+million, teacher's retirement...and gas is ALWAYS MORE expensive in Canada, they drive over the border and get it in the US. Canadian's are taxed heavily, but generally don't mind, cause "it actually goes to something".

                          You are correct, many American's ARE whiners, whatcha gonna do....

                            #112.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:08 PM EST
                            Reply

                            Thank God for the intelligent postings. The people who just spew hatred at each other don't advance any solutions. Obama will be re-elected, and if level heads prevail congress and the senate will work together for the next four years. Do you think we have a hope for even a little bit of co-operation for the good of the country.

                              Reply#113 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:09 PM EST

                              No offense, but I hope your wrong about Obama. He and the liberal led senate need to go if the ship's course is to be righted.

                              • 1 vote
                              #113.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:14 PM EST
                              Reply

                              Hey Michigan ask the "Romulian" his views about the US Auto Industry! Be careful Michigan the GOP/RNC "Speculator and Chief" likes to "flip-flop" alot. "Romulian Romney" has a "Bain Trained" economic view of how to bankrupt corporations.

                                Reply#114 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:30 PM EST

                                You might be supprised. THE FACTS: Romney did propose a bankruptcy process for the automakers before the government opted for that course. .....Romney held out the possibility at the time of the government giving certain loan and warranty guarantees that would not have approached the nearly $85 billion bailout.

                                  #114.1 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:02 AM EST
                                  Reply

                                  Im so sick of this election, instead of being concerned how to fix this country its turned into a butt kissing contest!

                                  • 1 vote
                                  Reply#115 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:05 AM EST

                                  SOARING GAS PRICES TODAY ARE HAVING A MUCH LARGER EFFECT ON THE ECONOMY THAN PILING EVEN MORE TAXES ON THE TOP 10% OF WAGE EARNERS THAT ALREADY PAY OVER 60% OF ALL FEDERAL INCOME TAXES.

                                  Obama was held in contempt of court for illegally obstructing oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico.

                                  The Obama administration threatened a proposal from House Natural Resources Chairman Doc Hastings (R-Wash.) to expedite oil and gas leasing and energy infrastructure permitting in the ANWR Alaska reserve could force Federal Regulators to EXPLOIT environmental laws and includes a costly, redundant resource assessment.

                                  Obama supported the Arab Spring which ultimately sent gas prices higher.

                                  Obama rejected a rapid approval of the Keystone XL pipeline from Canada to Texas.

                                  WHY WOULD ANYONE THINK THAT OBAMA SHOULD BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR RISING GAS PRICES?

                                  THESE ATTACKS MUST BE RACIALLY MOTIVATED.

                                  ...AND THE DRONES CONTINUE TO THINK THAT PUNISHING THE PRODUCERS WITH EVEN HIGHER TAXES WILL SOMEHOW MAKE THEIR LIVE BETTER, HOW VERY SAD.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  Reply#116 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:00 AM EST
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